### Apollo BBS Archive - August 11, 1990

    Mail from John Cummings
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:44:36

            I always thought Jesus was shown as the Mideast model, and I've
    always admired the black "doctor"--Augustine, the Bishop of Hippo.
            As to the Christian faith healers, they generally fall into the same
    category as the atheist New Thought snake oil salesmen.  I do admire the
    energy of the Christian groups which devote their lives to the care of the
    sick and needy. --Incidentally, name me a few atheist groups who show that
    much love and compassion for needy fellow man, ok?
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Well, let's see.  I ran the Digger's Free Store and Crash Pad for several
     2:years.  I give away free work to those who are in bad financial shape.  I
     3:buy $tatus for people on Apollo who do not have the funds (and I have done
     4:this many times, even for Christians who disagree with me).  But besides
     5:that I am not familiar with the five or six atheist groups that exist, at
     6:least not at this time.
     7:
     8:I'll tell you what atheists do that Christians do not.  We do not pass out
     9:lies by scaring our children into mental submission thereby making zombies
    10:out of them.
    11:
    12:"Hell is an outrage against humanity...Every step which intelligence has
    13:made in Europe from the edge of darkness has been in spite of the church."
    14:                        Victor Hugo
    15:
    16:That last paragraph pretty much sums it up, DON'T YOU THINK?
    17:
    18:                                Rod
    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 68508
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: News Today
    Subject: J.T. in New York
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 00:44:03

    Mail from James Taranto
    Date: 08/07/90  Time: 19:50:49

    Hi, I found a new job as assistant culture editor of the New York City
    Tribune.

    Message: 68509
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Taxes
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 00:52:13

            The City of Phoenix is going to tax home owners who have security
    systems (burglar alarms).  Only $10.00 per year....  ?????? (this WILL
    go up)

            Now isn't that stupid.... penalized for trying to protect your
    property or your lives.  They are going to tax us till we bleed.  Maybe we
    should make them 'bleed' first!  VOTE these idiots out of OFFICE!

    My two and a half cents worth! *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 68510
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Roger Mann
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 01:50:42

            Where is the old boy?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 68511
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: me
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 02:36:52

    Hi.

    Message: 68512
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: John C./68504
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:22:38

    Well, we agree that each man makes his own God in his own image.  Where we
    differ is your assertion that these inventions are real, in the sense that
    they are not purely imaginary.
    I don't think we can compare "the mores of atheism" to those of Thomas
    Acquinas, since there are no general mores of atheism.  Each atheist decides
    upon his own mores, just as each believer does.  With regard to Thomas
    Acquinas, I am not very familiar with his personal mores.  I can say,
    however, that anyone who would create and believe in a God as tyranical as
    Thomas Acquinas' God was, is not at a very sophisticated stage of moral
    development, and may even be morally corrupt in the sense that he is willing
    to overlook the grossest injustices implied by and necessitated by the
    tenets of his religion, merely because of the benifits he perceives.
    The way Christianity (and to be fair, most religions; Christianity is no
    worse in this regard than the others, merely more prominent in this country,
    and hence more likely to be the subject of attack by American atheists)
    treats unbelievers, is a little like the way human beings in general treat
    animals.  Their suffering is (in some minds) to be considered an
    unfortunate, but unavoidable fact of life, and we can justify their
    suffering provided we reap (as a biproduct) sufficient benifits; for after
    all, *we* are the sons of God, not those animals/infidels.
    I am continually surprised by how easily Christians are willing to accept
    the eternal damnation of their neighbors, friends, and family, in exchange
    for the security their religion affords them.

    Message: 68513
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: John C./68505
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:29:02

    It is not at all difficult to claim that Christianity is not based on a
    loving, merciful God.  Historical arguments aside, have you read the Bible
    lately?  What kind of merciful, loving God permits his creations to suffer?
    What kind of loving, merciful God decides the eternal fate of his creations
    solely upon their acceptance of him/belief in him?  These are not the
    attributes of a Father; these are the attributes of a madman, of a tyrant.
    I am an atheist, but if I were a theist, I would most likely conclude that
    the Bible and the holy books of many religions were inspired not by God, but
    by Satan; or the equivalent.  Satan is billed as a perverse, malicious,
    selfish entity, but a subtle one.

    Message: 68514
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: 68506/pollution
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:31:18

    My logic is irrefutable.  Using Sandi's own words, the oxygenated fuels
    program reduced auto pollution "across the board (old cars and new)" by
    twenty to fifty percent.  Because auto pollution is a substantial
    contributor to pollution in general, that is a very significant reduction.

    Message: 68515
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/68507
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:34:04

    At first, the forces of nature were seen as under direct control of God.  In
    order to appease this God-enemy, man offered sacrifices.  The only
    difference today is that nature is now considered to be indirectly
    influenced by God, and instead of meat and grain, we put money on the altar.

    Message: 68516
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Sysop/alarm tax
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:36:34

    I agree; its a rip-off, and the whole question of false alarms is merely an
    excuse, in the same way that Sadaam Husein's invasion of Kuwait is a rip-off
    excused by musty and questionable territorial claims.

    Message: 68517
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: 68510/Mann
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 03:38:22

    I don't know.  I called his house on several different days, and never got
    an answer.  They must be out of town.  A shame, too; many of my posts and
    questions on physics, which I wanted his comment and answer on, are
    scrolling off the board even as we post.

    Message: 68518
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JB/religion
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 05:49:33

    68512: Many Christians *don't* accept the security that their religion
    affords them while they see that neighbors, friends, family members are
    going to be condemned to hell: This is what turns them into fanatic
    evangelicals.

    Message: 68519
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT alive!
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 05:51:05

    JT is an assistant culture editor?  Is that the kind of culture that gets
    put in a Petri dish?

    I thought that JT's definition of culture was pizza and a dirty movie...

    Message: 68520
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/J.T.
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 06:20:49

     Culture editor, huh?
     And we remember him when!
    CULTURE?

    Message: 68521
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Nicky baby!
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 06:21:33

     HI GUY! Howyadoin?

    Message: 68522
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliffy on taxes
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 06:59:56

    Pray tell why people are going to be taxed because the have security
    systems??? I can't imagine??!!! More idiocy. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68523
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Jeff. B. alarms
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 07:03:01

    You mean they are going to tax them because their alarms go off at the wrong
    times? My lord, when its this going to stop? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68524
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Hopi's
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 07:13:08

    I just can't believe the Hopi nation is up in arms over the Smoki dances up
    in Prescott!! According to them, they have been fighting to get them to stop
    for years and this time, they claim they will do it! It's just another one
    of those minorty things over ruling the majority. I hope they do not win.
    The Smoki's have been preforming these dances since 1929. They are the most
    mesmorizing thing I ever saw and once you see them, you'll never forget it!
    They, the Smoki's are saying they preserved the original indian dances and
    the Hopi's say they aren't. Who is right? Who cares? I'm only sorry I won't
    be up there tonight. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68525
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: alarms/wrong times?
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 08:54:50

            If they go off at the wrong time...they are still going to FINE you!
    The Tax is for all, even those who never had a false alarm.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 68526
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Question?
    Subject: ??Nick
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 08:56:21

            Who is this 'Nick' guy?

    Message: 68527
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last/Nick
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:06:19

    He is the Godfather of the South West.

    Message: 68528
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Alarms/tax
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:10:05

    In other words if you do not 'pay up' then your alarm will be taken out by
    the PoLICE department and theives will be able to break in.
    '
    It's like the mafia of the olds days (right Nick) wherein if you don't pay
    the protection money then beware.

    But if the city figures they need such and such an amount then they will
    just put this tax on somehthing else.  How about a shoe tax?  Five Dollars
    per shoe per year.  Or maybe a toe tax, one dollar per toe per year.  Or a
    butt tax, five dollars per side per year.

    Well it's getting there.

    Message: 68529
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Translation
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:11:56

    A Renaissance literature class in an eastern university was assigned the
    task of translating the 23rd Psalm from English to French, then to Spanish,
    and back to English.

    The final product revealed, not unsurprisingly that much is lost in the
    translation.  The new version reads:

          God is my guide, but I don't want.  He brings me down in grassy
          fields.  He brings out my spirits, and leads me to waters.  He sends
          me the right way: His way. etc. etc.

    Imagine what has happened from early writing in Hebrew, through Greek, to
    old English...to now.
                                  From the Satiricon

    P.S. Jeff, your messages on religion are so complete in their logic that I
    doubt in any Christian will be able to understand them.  In fact I will
    personally bet you $5. that they aren't understood and even argued against.

    What say ye?                  Rod

    Message: 68531
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Old users
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 14:33:57

    Hummmmm.
    Anyone else find it interesting that Nick and JT mysteriously show up after
    mysteriously being gone for an unexplained (and therefore, mysterious) long
    time?

    Geez.  And just when JB was catching on...

    Message: 68532
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: War!
    Subject: Taxes
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 15:23:12

    Anyone else interested in buying an island out in the pacific with
    me?
    We could purchase the isle, build houses on it, 1 Circle-K and
    a couple clay-brick roads we could paint with left over white-wash
    from our elected officials campaigns here in Phoenix.
    Then we could raise the united islands of the pacific flag and
    beat the tyranny of taxation in the kings land.
    Of course the Red coats would be beating on our shores.....but we have
    a weapon of great and awesome power that will send the dogs
    scurrying for their washington offices.
    Raise the cuban flag and threaten to go communist or worse, or else
    send us $800 million in financial aid.

    Hey Rod, wanna piece of the rock?

    Message: 68533
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: War!
    Subject: Tax ideas for Moffrd
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 15:31:35

    Hey Rose, quit puffing on that cigar for a sec..here's some ideas
    for you to rape us with..........................................
    (1) Create a tax on stamps sold in Arizona!
    (2) Create a tax on letter boxes. Regulate their taxation value by
        size and color.
    (3) Grass tax. For every square inch of grass in any given yard, tax
        the owner monthly.
    (4) Rock tax. For every square inch of desert landscaping in a given
        yard, tax the owner triple the grass tax. (They're turning phoneix
        into a frying pan).
    (5) Concrete tax. Rape and pillage time Rose! For every square inch of
        heat sucking concrete, triple then quadruple the grass tax. They're
        making it hard for the aircraft to land because of the thermal
        updrafts.
    (6) Computer tax. For every pixel of resolution, tax accordingly, for
        every byte of ram and storage space, tax an equal amount.
    (7) Pool tax. Yeah. Stick it to em for wanting to cool off here in
        the summer. Besides, we hafta find a way to pay these muscle bound
        buffoons we call paraidiots, or is that paramedics?
    (8) Last but not least. A political campaign tax. Creature entering a
        "polticial race" must pay the taxpayers $50,000,000 or else we
        wont vote.
    There. Stick that in your freeway tax and stack it.
                            -Mike\

    Message: 68534
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: pollution
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:03:17

    Actually, at the time that was institigated, I noticed an immediate
    difference in the lower mileage, lower performance and occasional stalling.
    Coincidentally enough, about a month afterward everything under the hood of
    my car was replaced--every part under there was absolutely new--and it ran
    equally bad. About two tankfuls after the oxygenated garbage was gone, it
    magically ran as before.
    And although neither of you will listen to me, great strides have been made
    to reduce pollution from cars...you wouldn't believe how much lower the
    amounts of pollution in the air are now compared to, as I hypothetically
    said, 20 years ago. There is no reason to torture vehicles when they are
    already contributing about 33 times less pollution than the cars of twenty
    years ago did. (and there are not 33 times as many vehicles in Phoenix now
    as there were then.)

    Message: 68535
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: alarms
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:16:03

    True, but they are using the issue of false alarms and the expenses incurred
    responding to them as a pretext for a blanket tax.

    Message: 68536
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/bet
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:17:52

    That's a sucker proposition.  (But thanks for the compliment).

    Message: 68537
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Dee
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:20:09

    Are you refering to certain pseudonymous multiple personalities?

    Message: 68538
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: pollution
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:25:50

    Really?  Everything under your hood was replaced?  My, my.  Well, I guess
    that proves it, then.

    Oh, and you're right about auto emissions, too, of course.  These days, cars
    hardly contribute to pollution at all.  Now they're far too efficient to
    compete, what with all the other hot air that's blowing around.

    Message: 68539
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Beau Dog
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 16:29:22

    You may have something there.  On the other hand, only a small portion of
    Christians are evangelicals; and of those evangelicals, only a small portion
    are motivated by a desire to see others avoid the fires of hell.  They may
    use the fires of hell as a tool of conversion, but their primary concern is
    making God the center of their lives, and as proof of this they "witness"
    for the Lord.

    Message: 68540
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: pollution
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 17:32:09

    No, that merely proves that the car is well maintained. Pardons for my last
    note which was hurriedly written, as the only tv program I watch was coming
    on(Daily recap from Saratoga racetrack).
    What I meant to be getting at is that the improvement was very minimal in
    comparison to expense and hassle for SOME of us. Most of us with older
    vehicles watched our gas mileage plummet by up to 25%, meaning that we had
    to buy that much more gas(at five or ten cents more a gallon than normal gas
    prices). Fuel filters that would've lasted a long time more had to be
    replaced by many people. I bought the MTBE gas because the alcohol additives
    are bad for gaskets, plastic and rubber parts(and new cars have a lot of
    those...I was just playing it safe since I was breaking in a rebuilt older
    engine.)
    Hard to start, hard to keep running when the car was cold, miserable gas
    mileage and depressing performance were the rule rather than the exception
    for me and my friends when it came to the oxygenated fuels.
    At the same time, 20 to 50%(usually closer to the lower rather than the
    upper part of the range, but I'm being fair and giving the honest range that
    study results showed) reduction is not very much in comparison to what
    twenty years of technology has done to help out cars(over a 3,000 %
    improvement). Every year, pollution standards are tighter. In the long run,
    I think it's better to improve our technology.
    You talk about oil companies profiting and screaming about the fuel change,
    which is certainly true, but I think its naive to believe that someone
    is not profiting from alcohol-based fuels.

    Message: 68541
    Author: Chris Neal
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Iraq
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 18:20:28

    If anyone hasn't already noticed, Saddam spelled backwards spells "Madd
    As's'", I do believe this to be the case.  The guy is mad, not angry mad,
    but stupid mad... Like rabies would make you.

    I think this will be a Khadafy(sp) incedent.  The guy as put himself into a
    position where he can't back down, and if we don't kill him, someone will,
    maybe even his own people....

    Chris

    Message: 68542
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Kielsky / Chaos
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:15:53

        Were you serious? Or were they making false claims? I recently read an
    article concerning the Chaos incident. That is the one that started with the
    investigation into an unpaid .75 online access fee, correct?

    Message: 68543
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Speaking of Hussein
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:18:39

       Does anyone with connections into the black market know of a copy of
    "International Guerillas" floating around on video? It is the film that
    features a Moslem-hating terrorist whose name just happens to be Salman
    Rushdie. He is supposed to meet his fate at the end of the film in a bolt of
    divine retributionary lightning.

    Message: 68544
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod on God
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:24:31

       There you go again, trying to mold God into the image of Rod Williams.

    Message: 68545
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod on God again
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:38:33

       Sorry that last message was so short, but I ran out of online time.
       Rod, you seem so concerned with why God would allow any of His creation
    to be punished as you attempt to liken it to child abuse.
       But what about GOD abuse, Rod? What about those, like yourself, who do
    not, nor ever plan to, treat God with a single iota of respect? What about
    those who delight in blaspheming God (does a certain post describing in
    detail how you want to 'rub excrement in God's face' sound familiar)? What
    about it, Rod? You love to wax eloquent about this 'perfect' (wishy-washy if
    you ask me) god, made in the image of Rod's utopian imagination. And yet you
    have not yet even attempted to try and live up to these high ideals you
    expect of your god-image. You mock and despise those that dare to believe in
    God. You lash them with verbal chains. In your state of percieved
    superiority, you prove yourself to be nothing more than a pre-enlightened
    Saul (I imagine you'd root for him if you ever read the account of the
    stoning of Stephen). You stomp on others who dare to humble themselves
    before their Creator, and then pound your chest and yell "Is there no one
    greater than I? Where are you, God? I'll pound YOU into the ground, too!"
    Funny thing is that I can just imagine how utterly small you must look in
    the eyes of Almighty God as you do this.
       So, Rod. My question stands. What about God abuse? Do you honestly expect
    God to usher those with an attitude like yours into his Kingdom? His grace
    has been extended to you through the death of his Son; that measure of mercy
    alone to such a God-hater as yourself is mind-boggling. But there will be a
    time when that door of grace will be closed.

    Message: 68546
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill / 68335
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:41:19

       I think you will find the root of this "new" word to be 'dunce.' I guess
    it is supposed to be the opposite of Brainiac.

    Message: 68547
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Mail
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:42:05

       I leave mail in my mailbox at home. Usually bills. Hopefully if they sit
    there long enough, the postman will take them away.

    Message: 68548
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John on Rod's...
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:44:14

    ...hellophobia.

       I mentioned something about that sometime back. I think it was sort of an
    "is it just me, or..." type of post. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one
    who has noticed that.

    Message: 68549
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John on Rod's 68352
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:47:26

    Rod: "I'll answer you in mail."

       This usually means that Rod is psyching himself up to unleash a profanity
    laden tirade, the likes of which would get him booted off the board were it
    posted here. Although I could be wrong, I'm not banking on it.
       By the way, if I am right, and if you captured them to disk, I would be
    interested in seeing them. Rod has certainly nothing to hide from me that he
    hasn't spewed from his well-oiled fangs already.

    Message: 68550
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod on Middle East
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 21:53:53

       People won't publicly profess to be Christian in Middle Eastern countries
    like Iraq because doing so can result in persecution, torture and death! I
    know this to be a fact. I have a friend whose name is Sabah. He and his
    wife and three children fled Iraq because they were in danger of being
    killed because they were Christian. It truly breaks his heart to be away
    from his homeland, but he has no other choice.
       In fact, Sabah lost his only Bible, an Arabic edition, when he fled the
    country. He had been without a Bible for nearly a year and a half because he
    did not know where to go to get one in Arizona. I found a store and ordered
    two copies, and gave them to him as a gift. I've never seen a more grateful
    look on a human face in my entire life.

    Message: 68551
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff B./Acquinas
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:20:05

            I'm conmtinually amazed by the way atheists make up strange
    attitudes which they then ascribe to Christians, because they are easy to
    shoot down. Yes, if Acquinas were what you say, you'd be right.
    Unfortunately, he promoted a kind and loving God--as a matter of fact, his
    only real fault was a tendency to excuse women for faults because they are a
    "weaker and thus less responsible sex."

    Message: 68552
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff B./God
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:24:39

            Once more, you describe a God I don't know  and have never known.He
    does not "permit His creations to suffer." He wills them and gives them the
    means to happiness.  He also gives them the gift of Free Will--something no
    tother being can demonstrate--and IF THEY CHOOSE TO LEAVE HIM, they have the
    will to do so. If they offend against Him and then want to come back to Him,
    he welcomes them! Why is that madman or tyrant? I don't think I am that
    forgiving to my own kids when they wreck my car, e.g.   --John C.--

    Message: 68553
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Jeff B./logic
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:26:34

            Read Sandi's post again. Oxygen fuels reduced auto pollution, but
    that reduced total pollution only by a barely measurably amount.

    Message: 68554
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/Satiricon
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:30:12

            You owe Jeff five bucks.       --John C--

    Message: 68555
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: All/Hell
    Date: 08/11/90  Time: 22:39:02

            Remember when we used to discuss Hell? A long time ago--a week or
    more.  I've been thinking about it, asking myself did I ever try to frighten
    my kids with fearful images which might warp their minds? Yes, I did! I
    warned them about socialism! I tried to be kind and loving and gentle, but I
    had to be truthful, that socialism robs a person of personal identity and
    refuses to reward good work, is therefore unjust. I always hoped none of my
    kids would be warped by this, but one of them married a democrat. (I blush
    with shame to confess it!) The others have lived good lives, so far.

    Message: 68556
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike/rock
    Date: 08/12/90  Time: 01:57:23

    Yes Mike I do.  I would like to start a really funky religion, something
    new, you know.  We could up the stakes to 20% instead of ten because it's
    new.  Okay?  (Don't worry, you be State & I'll be church, 60/40 split.)

    Message: 68557
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sandi/pollution
    Date: 08/12/90  Time: 02:05:53

    I ran MTBE in my van and I did not notice any difference in performance.  I
    haven't had a tune up since I bought it 3 years ago and it has passed
    emissions with ease.  I heard that it was not a good idea to mix additives
    together such as MTBE and the alcohol but I did that by accident once but
    then again nothing happened.

    I would get a tune up though if my vehicle failed to start so readidly and
    that is what I have been waiting for.  I heard that it was not a good idea
    to fix something that was not broken.  I do change the air and oil cleaner
    religiously, so to speak and have it lubed every 3000 miles.

    Perhaps the reason that Phoenix is better off now, pollution wise, than 20
    years ago is now we are using a different measuring device or maybe there is
    some cheating going on for the benefit of Federal monies.

    Message: 68558
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Chit Chat/Daryl
    Date: 08/12/90  Time: 02:19:54

    You mention God abuse and I get quite a big kick (he-he) out of it.  It
    seems to me that those many religious folks who believe so much in their
    particular god try to do its job.  These gods according to the believers are
    much more powerful than anything in existence and I do not see why these
    gods do not handle the people who abuse them.  It seems to me that by
    interjecting on these gods behalfs that you are denying its existence in a
    fashion.

    Hey, I can whip all gods, bar none.  In my present situation I am much more
    intelligent than any god I've ever heard about.

    They all refuse to talk to me although I once heard that talk was cheap.
    Hell my business has grown, I am doing new and exiciting things so what's
    saappening?

    Do you think that one or all of these gods will get me all at once and make
    the remainder of my years on Planet Pig Farm intolerable and afterwards let
    me bake, broil or fry in hell or hades?  Gee, I dunno, do you?

    In any case my situation is far from perfect as a working class economic
    slave.  Hey, maybe that's it.  If I worshipped the correct god then maybe I
    wouldn't be an economic slave I'd be a rock n' roll star....no you say
    because rock n' roll stars all go to lleh...well what about then a great
    scientist such as Sagan....no you say cause those kind will go to lleh..then
    a short order cook at Denny's.....no you say because the Dennys I'm thinking
    of is a gay hangout....then what about me becoming a Catholic Priest...no
    you say because all Catholic Priests are going to lleh....then what about a
    television preacher because the word can be passed so much better and to so
    many more people than just a simple church....no you say because tv
    preachers are of the devil....hmmmmmm.

    Damn, I think I'll be an atheist and have a free mind even though my
    pocketbook is owned by the capitalists.  But I'll work on other things that
    may allow me to escape my economic slavery.

    Is this how your particular god is punishing me by making me an economic
    slave?

    Goodbye Daryl,

                                    Rod

    Message: 68560
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John C.
    Date: 08/12/90  Time: 02:33:55

    If you do not teach anyone that if they do not believe such and such or will
    go to a place or eternal punishment or be hindered in any way then I have
    no argument with you.  So what's you beef?

    There are those who do and they do it often.  These people are sick.

    Since you do not then I invoke you to help me stamp out this bigotry.  Yes,
    you can help by passing the word.

    Thanking you in advance,

                                    Rod