### Apollo BBS Archive - May 24, 1998

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    Message: 3490
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/Pete's F & C
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 02:10:34

    Actually you are wrong on berating Pete's Fish and Chips.  Unless the
    organization has changed since Pete Grant died, they pay a bit more than
    minimum wage.  I think they generally start at $5 an hour, and are given
    raises as performances goes up.  The managers are in on profit sharing.
    Some make upwards of $100,000 a year.

    Some companies can and do treat their employees better.  I think they get
    better work, and actually get more than their moneys worth.

    Message: 3491
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Mike on Rod
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 08:33:22

    What a sweet post! I see you took the course -'How to win friends and
    influence people'! You were so nice and pleasent. I would truly like to meet
    you and see how long your fangs are! See you. =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 3492
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: On Rod
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 08:34:21

    Rod is right - your missing his points! Again! =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 3493
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: JT / Jobs
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 09:07:33

      I am aware of the supply/demand comprimise.  It is not quite that simple
    when the supplied item is an essential item, and the more essential that
    item is, the more skewed the supply/demand balance gets.  To use your
    example, a shirt is an essential item for me.  If shirts sell for $20, I
    must pay $20, whether I want to or not, and no matter how badly paying the
    $20 hurts.  Since shirts are widely available in reality, this example is a
    bit simplistic.
      To expand this to jobs:  A job is, at least as far as I'm concerned, an
    essential item.  I MUST have a job.  If the only job available open to me
    pays $4, I have to take the $4.  I can't hold out for more -- they won't
    give it, since someone a bit more desperate will take the $4.  Employers
    have considerable control over their employees, and that increases as you
    get closer to the bottom of the pay scale.  The main problem is that it
    takes time to find a job, and people at low wages have little or no savings.
    They can't tollerate any missed paychecks since their pay is spent almost as
    soon as they get the check.  Given this, an employer can hold the threat of
    firing over his employees head, and make them do pretty much whatever he
    wants, at whatever wage he wants.  If the employee doesn't like it, he CAN'T
    "just go get another job" because of the time (and lost wages due to
    unemployment) that that takes.  I was able to switch jobs because working
    weekends enabled me to find a new job before my employer found out I was
    looking.  He did find out after, though, and fired me on the spot.  That
    cost me about $200 in lost wages.  I was able to borrow enough to carry me

    Message: 3494
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: more
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 09:12:41

    through to the first paycheck on the new job.  If I had worked 9 to 5 days,
    and had no one to borrow from, I would have been in deep $#!+.
      There ARE companies that more directly reward their employees.  In
    addition to or in place of a salary, they pay commsisions, productivity
    bonuses (I get those), or let their employees collect tips.  As for a purely
    sharing business, I believe that the Changing Hands Bookstore in Tempe is
    run that way.  I have heard that the owner is a dyed-in-the-wool socialist,
    and runs his store that way.  (This is word of mouth -- I don't know this
    personaly).  The store has been there for a number of years, and seems to be
    doing well.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

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    Subject:last several

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     1:        Yeah, we are a nation of economic slaves.  Of course there are some
     2:masters who are nice to their slaves but for the most part it is still
     3:slavery.
     4:                                Rod
     5:end

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    Message: 3496
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Alan
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 20:43:47

    Your statement that "Since to 'leave it' means you'll starve" is rather
    silly.  Clearly you left it, and while you are rather skinny, you seem to be
    doing quite well -- and all with a small investment in a tie.  And what
    option do you offer?  Forcing Circle K to pay more, thus forcing people who
    are quite willing to work at those wages into starvation?
    JT is correct; you don't understand the price system and its immense power
    in conveying information.

    Message: 3497
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 22:48:46

      How can you expect us to have a sense of kinship with each other when
    there are stark raving lunatics among us demanding that we live on an acre

    (*

    Message: 3498
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Ann/Rod
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 22:57:16

      Rods point is that human beings should be completely different than they
    are. No one has missed that, we just don't see any particular value in
    raving about it. His solution to all problems is to pretend that the human
    race is completely different than it actually is and throw out all the
    workable aspects of modern civilization in favor of the failed policies of
    all the wretched communists who came before him.
      See you later,
         Dean H.

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    Subject:Dean

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     1:        If what you and JT are saying, our system is running as it should,
     2:great.  I am happy to live in a perfect, well running system.
     3:        I wouldn't change a thing.
     4:        It must be that people aren't perfect, that's it.
     5:                                Rod
     6:end
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    Message: 814
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod W./verse
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 08:39:26

    I don't know how it goes exactly - but I like the one where old Noah gets
    drunk! He couldn't take the stress of all the animal 'clean-up'! So, he runs
    off the Ark - plants a vinyard - makes wine and get soused! =*--ANN--*=

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    Subject:Rod Bias

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     1:        "When you pray, go into your closet, do not stand in the square and
     2:make long winded prayers like the hypocrites do."
     3:end

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    Message: 52325
    Author: $ Mark Adkins
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: .
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 02:53:18

    Shutup Williams, you are scum.  If you're trying to further provoke me,
    you're doing a fine job.
    California is not that far away, Taranto.

    Message: 52326
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 05:49:06

    Certainly I recognize and readily admit that people are indeed different,
    Ann. THere are those who can read a clinical report on the most dangerous
    affliction that besets mankind today, and heed the warning, and avoid
    further contact with the acknowledged source of that affliction. THen there
    are those who, when the facts are laid before them in the simplest of terms,
    (i.e. smoking IS hazardous to your health, smoking IS addictive, smoking
    causes more deaths in the U.S. than any other single source, etc.) refuse to
    open their eyes or their minds, except to deny truth and justify their own
    weaknesses, and insist that they "enjoy" killing themselves.
     I have an acquaintence, in his mid-40s, who is dying of emphesyma, a
    smoking caused disease that literally takes his breath away. The disease,
    once contracted by the smoker, is incurable. It is also terminal. THis is
    just one of many diseases that have been scientifically and medically
    attributed to smoking. There are many other facts concerning the negative
    results of the tobacco habit, but I'm sure that you have heard them all, and
    have probably qualified each one as something that happens only to "the
    other guy". I've got news for you, dear Ann. The theory stinks. If you
    continue to dance tothe tune, sooner or later, you will have to pay the
    piper. Good luck. You'll need it!

    Message: 52327
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod Williams
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 06:01:14

    Your stress/drug theory is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have heard in
    years. Pardon my French, but you are so far out of line as to be totally
    ridiculous!
     EVERYBODY is under stress in this world! Most of it, if we want to be
    perfectly honest, is self-inflicted, but a lot of it is also
    society-induced, but we all suffer stress to one degree or another. Still,
    MOST people DO NOT turn to drugs (tobacco and alcohol included) for relief.
    Most people, when the stresses of the circumstance begin to weigh heavily on
    them, do somthing to alter the circumstance. Situations are made to be
    changed, and should be looked on as a challenge to do something different or
    better, and not an excuse to run away in the temporary euphoria of a drug
    induced, mind altering condition.
     A REAL parent, who has raised his children properly, can look them in the
    eye today, and assure them that, while the world is not always a fair place,
    or even a very nice place, they have been prepared to face the problems that
    will beset them with the confidence and wisdom and strength to overcome and
    gain the victory over obstacles and circumstances that coul otherwise cause
    them to fall.
     We are not going to change the world Rod. The best we can do for the next
    generation is teach them how to overcome the adversities they will face, not
    by hiding or running, but by facing up to their responsibilities, and coming
    out winners. THAT, my friend, is the best contribution YOU can make to the
    future. Stop alibying that for which there is no excuse, and stress personal
    responsibility, and accountability for one's actions.

    Message: 52328
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cli

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    Subject:Paul

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     1:        I see you have not spent much time in the ghetto.  Yeah, right,
     2:those people just have to 'snap' their fingers or wiggle their noses and a
     3:beautiful fairy godmother appears, ready to grant them three wishes.
     4:        You've had a cushy job for 20 years but many are struggeling.  Have
     5:you ever drank alcohol or smoked cigarettes when under stress?
     6:                                Rod
     7:end

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    Message: 52328
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/smoking
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 08:13:22

    * OK! I'll quit! =*--ANN--*=

    *Someday!. Hahaha only kidding. All youse guys are quite convincing.
    (cough)

    Message: 52329
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/stress
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 08:23:39

    You may be right about stress and using drugs. All drug use is up from 40
    years ago and life was certainly less stressful than it is today. Paul is
    right - but it doesn't work for everyone. Drugs is an easy way to relieve
    stress (it might not really be doing it, but if the user thinks it is - then
    it is!) As far as alcohol is conserned - I simply like it and drink for no
    other reason than that. I don't like beer or wine, but whiskey is a treat
    for me. I also like to get high on it but not drunk - which is a total waste
    of good booze. It doesn't truly relieve stress though in the long run,
    because usually a drinker will figure if a little bit works, a whole lot
    should clear up any problems that person may have. Thus, creating more of a
    problem. =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 52330
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/drinking
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 08:24:40

    I know you quit smoking - but do you not take a drink now and then?
    =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 52332
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 10:48:59

            I see you have not spent much time in the ghetto.  Yeah, right,
    those people just have to 'snap' their fingers or wiggle their noses and a
    beautiful fairy godmother appears, ready to grant them three wishes.
            You've had a cushy job for 20 years but many are struggeling.  Have
    you ever drank alcohol or smoked cigarettes when under stress?
                                    Rod

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    Subject:Mark Adkins

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     1:        We have a complete looney here, Mark has not only threatened the
     2:life of two of my daughters but he has threatened the life of about six
     3:people.
     4:        I believe he is serious and I have documented voice tapes and
     5:letters to prove it.  Some of us carry weapons and know how to defend
     6:ourselves.
     7:                                Rod
     8:end

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    Message: 52334
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 13:29:06

         I think it is a wickedly gut-busting put-on.  He still has $tatus,
    right?  Very dry humor, I would suspect.

    Message: 52335
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Rod/Adkins
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 14:13:03

    Marks "Good-bye" message (msg # 52308) is hardly a "Death Threat on Six
    People"...?   What are you trying to do Rod, cause un-needed "STRESS" on the
    users?  First off, the Joke on Mark was in poor taste from what I
    understand.  Of course Mark is going to be upset, but he is leaving the
    system (so he has told me in mail)... so why don't you guys let it drop
    rather then add to the hysteria!

    I feel bad that we have lost a major contributor on Apollo's talk boards,
    but I am powerless to un-do the damage done.

    SYSOP Cliff
    P.S.  Peter, Mark wants his $tatus removed, but I am advising him to retain
    it as to keep other users from using his name in a cruel way.

    Message: 52336
    Author: Apro Poet
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: Tru Fax
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 17:31:57

      Pauline Davis of Ontario, Canada, believed she was the
    woman referred to in the Book of Revelation, chapter 12, of
    the Bible - "a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon
    under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head."
      In May of 1983, Davis, then forty-one, began living in a
    New York park because, according to Scripture, "the woman
    fled into the wilderness where she hath a place prepared of
    God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred
    and threescore days."  Davis considered it a bid for world
    peace.
      For the next three years, reported the *Toronto Star*,
    area residents often saw Davis "standing on islands in the
    middle of expressways or bridges, dressed in a white gown,
    waving a white flag, and wearing a crown of stars
    representing the twelve tribes of Israel.
      "Davis has survived bitter winters and floods, as well as
    assaults by vandals, rats, and insects while living in a
    series of canvas and plastic shelters alongside the Don
    River....  She was even burned out this summer."
      However, at the end of "a thousand two hundred and
    threescore days," nothing happened and Davis ended her vigil.
      "I just need a couple of days to get myself together." She
    said.  "I'm getting too old; I can't stay here without a
    reason."

    Message: 52337
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hathaway/Guns
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 19:25:53

      I agree with Pat Paulson on this:  guns -- all guns -- should be legal.
    We should just keep people from buying bullets, and all will be well.

    ==========  Pascal  #(O,O)# Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ==========
    "Guns don't kill people -- *bullets* kill people!"

    Message: 52338
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: War!
    Subject: Drugs
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 19:28:20

      The "war on drugs", I predict, will take off eventually when people get
    fed up with nothing happening, and begin forming vigilante groups.  Later,
    when pushers are found nailed to telephone poles or dropped into brickyards
    from helicopters, some of the dealers will decide to change lines of work.

    ==========  Pascal  #(O,o)# Ouch!  MacProgrammer  ==========

    Message: 52339
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Adkins
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 20:29:23

    Mark, I'm hoping you log on at least once more to see this.  I don't think
    you should leave the system because of this.  There were very few people
    involved in the prank, and of those of us who heard it, did it occur to you
    that we didn't tell you because we didn't want your feelings hurt?  When
    Hawley first told me about it, he didn't present it as something hilarious,
    but rather as a practical joke (of the sort you both pulled on one another)
    gone bad.  That's why he played only a portion of the tape for me.  He only
    did that because Christian got mail from you when I was at Rod's, and she
    was talking to Hawley about it.  I kept hassling them until they told me.
    I figured Hawley would just erase the tape and that would be the end of
    it, but unfortunately the story spread through a couple of other people.
    In any case, it isn't you who looks bad in all of this.  Moreover, I think
    the majority of the Apollo users don't want to see you go (in fact, I doubt
    any of them do). I am sorry I didn't tell you about it, but thought it would
    be better if you never knew about it.

    Message: 52340
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 22:10:35

    I *did* tell him, and look where it got me.

    Message: 52341
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod/Drugs
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 22:37:52

      In places like Russia where the stresses you mention have been dealt with
    by the type of system you are advocating people drink, snort, and inject
    themselves to death at a pretty good clip. Face it, stress is just another
    excuse for doing something stupid people would have done anyway.
      See you later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 52342
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: MacGregor/Bullets
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 22:44:33

      Go ahead, I make my own ammo, so does Cliff, and so do thousands of other
    people. I can make ammo a lot easier than I could make a gun. Seriously
    though, do you really believe that such a move could ever be forced on the
    people of the United States for long or that it would have anything but
    negative effects if it were? Ammunition could be obtained by criminals
    through all sorts of means and again it would be only the law abiding
    citizen who was made to suffer.
      See you later,
         Dean H.

    Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:Cliff/Adkins

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     1:        I have documentation that shows Adkins threatened the life of
     2:various people.  Adkins seems full of hate and it seems to be consuming his
     3:brain.  When I get mad, it usually lasts several days at most.  I am not mad
     4:at Adkins or anyone else, I just feel very sorry for him.
     5:                                Rod
     6:P.S.  Adkins' short circuited brain arbitrarily decided who was guilty and
     7:who was not.  Those found guilty are subject to his sick wrath.  I am
     8:totally innocent in this prank and he has done violence to me with his
     9:innuendos and threats.
    10:        In my life I have met two really sick people, one was a guy named
    11:Paul who I had admitted to St. Lukes Medical Center, Mental Health Ward, the
    12:other is Mark Adkins.  I have letter from him that are so gross that I feel
    13:very sad when I read them.

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    Subject:Drugs

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     1:        There are many reasons why people take drugs and I really didn't
     2:mean to imply that stresses where the only reason.  Many start using them
     3:while teenagers from peer pressure and just continue with them.  Movies have
     4:led a lot of people to drugs, most especially alcohol and tobacco from the
     5:flicks of the fifties.
     6:        I would say that a person from a broken home may try heroin and sees
     7:that it takes the pain away and may then become physically addicted.  I
     8:don't know, I'm pretty tired right now.....hmmmm, where did I put that coke?
     9:                                Rod

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