### Apollo BBS Archive - December 20, 1991

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    {Mail from James Hawley
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 02:06:27

    [A]bort, [N]ew only, [R]ead or [S]kip:Read

    I've never broken a wheel in my life.  Unlike you.

    Too damn busy this week.  Getting tired of working, plus been waking up with
    sinus headaches, or something.  Maybe AIDS, I don't know.

    If you HAD a pussy, I might eat it.  You MIGHT have a pussy, but it's the{
    blow up kind.  (With the vibrating VAGINA-MATIC).  "Better than the reel
    thing!"
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:{{Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:{{{{{{{{{When did I {break a whee{l{?  {{I am getting so much g
    arbage
     2:{{garbage {that I can hardly see what ?B am typing.  {{Gotta try again.
     3:
     4:Do {Cos{ta{ {Ricans{ eat Dog and Pussy?  {{
     5:
     6:{{{Sinus headaches are the very first sign of AIDS.  Didn't you {{know t
    hat
     7:{?
     8:{end

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    Caller # 166604 (22 today)
    It is now 12/21/91  18:13:14
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    Message: 80715
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Politics
    "U	)
    QiE+K$KKy
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 05:35:25

    > What I am trying to say (I think) is that to meet and know
    > these people who know, makes it more believable.

    Well, of course it does.  That's a fundamental of human communication.
    Anytime one meets another, even a bitter and traditional enemy, and begins
    to see that they have more in common than they have differences it's easier
    to see the other's point of view.  That does not, however, make that point
    of view any more correct or plausible.  The trick is to separate empathy
    from the$,kV-,HK$]4e situation.

    > Though out history, people have always scoffed at things about
    > to happen as foolishness... are you going to be one of them?

    Thanks for not asking any loaded questions.

    Message: 80716
    Author: $ Bill BurkeTt{
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Green - Romish
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 05:35:52

    > What is the old Roman saying ? "Post hoc, ex propter hoc ?"

    I don't know.  I watched "I, Claudius" but didn't pick up much of the
    language.

    Message: 80717
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: death
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 06:14:06

    "I'm not frightened of death.  I just don't want to be there when it
    happens."     -- Woody Allen

    "Death implies change and individuality; if thou be
       THAT which hath no person, which is beyond the
       changing, even beyond changelessness, what hast
       thou to do with death?
    The birth of individuality is ecstacy; so also is its
       death.
    {{In love the individuality is slain; who loves not love?
    Love death therefore, and long eagerly for it.
    Die Daily."          -- Aleister Crowley

    "Oy!  Oy!  Oy!  O--GACK!"  -- Australian footballer "Jocko" interrupted
    during an EverecDrQQIe=55I
    %al by a crossbow bolt through the neck.

    Message: 80718
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: {{{sort of relevant
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 06:41:37

    ...in an indirect way to what we hBI9"%M
    UMM%9:%Q!I"=
    governments and personal liberty.  As long as I was thumbing through
    _The Book of Lies_ (which is where I got the other A.C. pieaERJ	5Q)'
    post one more poem, if for no other reason (as Cliff says) than because I
    like it:

     I am not an Anarchist in *your* sense of the word:
      your brain is too dense for any known explosive
      to affect it.
     I am not an Anarchist in your sense of the word:
      fancy a Policeman let loose on Society!
     While there exists the burViW.Kthe hunting man, or
      any man with idgAXMbMM"!9+
    +V/R.HX7+y
      DiW,Z8line less than Loyola's -- in short, any man
      who falls far short of MYSELF -- I am against
      Anarchy, and for Feudalism.
     Every "emancipator" has enslaved the free.

    Message: 80719
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: In search of
    Subject: ???
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 07:08:32

    Free association has brought to mind another `oN51"!%Mz9e"!Qz
    fellow Mark Adkins:

    If eyes are the mirror of the soul
    Hers are jet black onyx
    Black obsidian
    The color of midnight in a lonely place

            Desert fires burning on the horizon
            A lighthouse seen from a derelict raft
            on the open sea
            A single candle in a border watchtower

    I feel myself being swallowed up
    Falling through chasms of endless night

            The cold wind sw%eys up from below
            Thrilling me through with ecstacy

    I live and die a thousand times

    Message: 80720
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: CP5Q+w
    Subject: Rod #80714
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 09:43:04

    Very good Rod. I certainly don't want to hide in the closet.
                    -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 80721
    Author: $ Beauregard Do'{
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Post hoc et cetera
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 10:22:07

    I think it is "Post hoc, ergo procter hoc" -- and it is representative of
    the way too many people think.

    (It means "After this, therefore because of this"  e.g., the Federal Reserve
    was created, then we had the Great Depression.  Therefore...)

    Message: 80722
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Value at law
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 11:23:40

    FS> Value = The{ selling price - what a freely acting buyer and freely
    FS> acting seller agree to.

    Very good.  I might suggest that these days, the concept of a "freely acting
    buyer" and a "freely acting seller" is almost obsolete, but that would get
    into splitting hairs, so I won't quibble.  Your definition is the textbook
    definition, and that's what I wanted to reach.  It *is* the standard 'at
    law' definition of 'value.'  [This is my opinion based upon my research.  I
    do not give legal advice.]

    Now, then:  How do you account for gov't's apparent power to disregard that
    standard of value when they assess you for taxes on that property?  In other
    words, by what authority does gov't -- or some non-government entity such as
    the IRS -- arbitrarily disregard that standard of value which is the
    standard of law, and assess yo5 }axes on what *they* think the property is
    worth?

    Message: 80723
    Author: $ ar-ZMedes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Specific medium
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 11:24:52

    FS> How to denominate it = Doesn't matter.  Can be whatever the buyer and
    FS> seller agree to be it dollars, seashells, or ounces of gold.

    Well, that may be how *you* choose to denominate it -- i.e., in anything the
    buyer and seller agree to denominate it in -- but government isn't going to
    enforce your cOn8ract, in the event of a dispute, unless you dYominate the
    contract in legal tender.  Or, alternatively, if2you have a contract in
    something other than legal tender, and the person you have the contract with
    chooses to pay you in legal tender, you have no recourse.  Likewise, if you
    have a contract which is denominated in(ldgal tender, or which omits any
    mention of the medium of payment, and you choose to pay in something other
    than legal tender, then the other party has right k&action against you to
    force payment in legal tender.  [This is my opinion based upon my research.
    I do not give legal advice.]

    Now, then:  Do rental agreements of which you are aware specify the medium
    of exchange?  Do they use the words "legal tender of the United States," or,
    when completed, do the9 zpecify that rental payments be in some quantity of
    some medium?  Do they use the '$' ('dollar sign'), for example, either the
    'S' with one vertical bar through it(`K$]4e 'S' with two vertical bars
    through it?

    Message: 80724
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Own/Manage 1/2
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 11:26:12

    FS> It's far to complicated to give a simple answer but generally I would
    FS> tend to choose ownership as just being the manager is essentially just
    FS> working for a living and you may not have a job tomorrow.  Your
    FS> "wealth" as a manager, is recLXez91eJ=UIR=
    9*a
    AQ2=I*9UMU1
    FS> situations (like a seat on the Chicago Board of Trade, etc) can't be
    FS> sold.  So in that sense, being a manager really isn't wealth at all.

    Very good again.  Now, then:  How do you feel about being prohibited, by
    law, from "owning" any wealth?  You don't own any, you realize.  You may
    manage wealth, but you may not own any today, under our laws.  You have the
    "privilege," I might add (only on good behavior), of "transferring" your
    managership of wealth to someone else, or of arranging a transfer of
    managership from someone else to you, so long as no real profit is taken.
    But the transfer of managership over wealth is not the transfer of wealth.

    Similarly (you mentioned ounces of gold dqrlier), you cannot purchase
    ownership of ounces of gold, nor sell your ownership of ounces of gold
    (because you don't have any ownership of gold).  As mentioned earlier, a
    transaction in which unbacked worthless paper money is the medium of
    exchange does not constitute a transfer of ownership over anything of value,
    because for ownership to transfer, an equal exchangw of value must occur in
    both directions.  Therefore such a transaction constitutes a transfer of
    managership and nothing more -- the foreign owners of the FED,

    Message: 80725
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Own/Manage 2/2
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 11:27:10

    the banksters, own the property, and through their agents, the federal
    gov't, will extend to you managership over that property (on good behavior)
    so long as you pay a leasehold rental to them in taxes.

    Believe it or not, as off-the-wall and convoluted as that sounds, it is the
    way our system works today, and is the justification gov't has for
    confiscating any daned property it wants to at any time, for any reason or
    no reason, without a warrant showing probable cause of a criminal act or
    even a criminal intent, and without just compensation for property taken for
    public use.

    This is the result of a medium of exchange based upon worthless paper-backed
    debt money.  Think about it.

    [This is my opinion based upon my research.  I do not give legal advice.]

    Message: 80726
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Not minor!
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 11:28:29

    FS> Your question remains meaningless.  In total economic collapse, the
    FS> issue of whether rent is collectable will be a minor point and it is
    FS> unlikely the gvt could enfov#Yit's eddict even if it passed it.

    Not the *least* *bit* minor!  In total economic collapse the issue of
    whether rent is collectible or not will be the difference between whether
    millions and malmions of people are out on the street without shelter while
    apartment houses and rental homes, etc., stand empty, or not.  And *that*
    will be the difference between whether those people thrown out on the street
    form mobs and burn down whole cities or not.

    As far0ab:=Y"*9=Y
    N9JQM*%
    Q1JQ"=M9"BY"=9Je
    R/+$ZX;e a
    tenant now who refuses to pay rent, you have a legal procedure which you may
    follow to get him out of there, and which prohibits him, jy!law, from coming
    back.  If this edict is issued under martial law, then gov't simply isn't
    going to help you get him out of there.  And if you take unilateral action
    on your own to get him out, he can lawfully defend himself with force of
    arms, and if you successfully get him out he can go to the military
    authorities responsible for enforcing that edict and ask for the return of
    his abode, and they will return it to him over your protests -- and throw
    you in the brig.  Under this edict, and for the duration of martial law, he
    will have a legally superior right and interest in his abode over your
    right, title, and interest in the property.

    Message: 80727
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/Death
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 15:07:55

    I am with you and understand. A brillian insight --- thanks for sharing it
    with us. Perhaps we will all be changed.

    MMiB:B~
    Author: $ Green La.tlrn
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Bill/Latin
    Date: 12/21/91  Time>`LM09:46

    And Xl I remember from my two years of Latin in H{igh School is:

    America est patria mea.

    and--

    Omnia Gallia en tres partes divisa est. --- Julius Caesar

    Message: 80729
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beau/Ex
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 15:14:08

    Lessee. I want to say, From this, because of this
    so it would be:

    Ex hoc, propter hoc.

    Perhaps that was what I was think of.

    Public Bulletin Board command:EC

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     1:You're {welcome{.  I just had{ to mention it because {the thought{ meant

     2:so{much to me{.  (I keep getting this {ga{r-bage and I gu{ess{ {I ha{v
    en
     3:{{have n{ot foun{d the problem.  Maybe I'l{l {run a new line.
     4:
     5:Thanks again.
     6:end

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    Subject:J{ames Matlock

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:A person who {consumes a lot of alcohol is {{called an alcoholic.
     2:
     3:What {is a perso{n called who drin{{{k{'s a lot of cow's m{ilk{.
     4:
     5:{{p

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     4:A coward{.
     5:end

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     1:A person who consumes a lot of alcohol is called an alcoholic.
     2:
     3:What is aon called who drinkk's a lot of cow's milk.
     4:A coward.

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     3:What is a person calle{d who d{ri{nks a lot of cow's milk?{

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     1:A person who consumes a lot of alcohol is called an alcoholic.
     2:
     3:What is a person called who drinks a lot of cow's milk?
     4:A coward.

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    Message: 80730
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Green/death
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 18:17:22

    You're welcome.  I just had to mention it because the thought meant
    so much to me.  (I keep getting this gar-bage and I guess I haven
    have not found the problem.  Maybe I'll run a new line.

    Thanks cGB%99~

    Message: 80731
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James Matlock
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 18:19:38

    A person who consumes a lot of alcohol is called an alcoholic.

    What is a person called who drinks a lot of cow's milk?
    A coward.

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    You were on 06:49

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