### Apollo BBS Archive - September 16 - 19, 1989

    Message: 61055
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliffy
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 06:09:30

    Re: your - "If People RESPECTED other people, we would have a better world.
    Is there a better place to teach respect then at the home"!
    You couldn't have uttered more true words there. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61056
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James/Zsa Zsa
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 06:11:03

    She'll on get the 'chair' if it's line with mink! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61057
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Thomas/your list
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 06:13:00

    I would have added a lot of your list to mine to begin with, but couldn't
    spell some of them. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61058
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 06:55:14

    "Satan has so much power and God seems not to have any"?
     That's what happens when you read the book upside down and backwards.
     For those of us who have a real relationship with God, Satan is an
    eternally defeated foe, hardly worthy of the mention.

    Message: 61059
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zsa Zsa
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 07:00:55

     All she will get is exactly what she wants. More publicity to give a shot
    in the arm to a career that is on the wane. The only place you see her
    anymore is in the news when she does something to get attention.

    Message: 61060
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 08:43:57

    That's just braggadoccio.  Lots of bullies swagger like that.

    Message: 61061
    Author: Ron Goulart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Slick-50/ho-hum
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 10:00:49

    Bah!  Pennsylvania is hardly worthy of serious consideration.  After all,
    their state motto is "Land Of The Communists."  The rest of them are a bunch
    of heathen Teutons, plastering their Satanic symbols all over their barn
    doors.  They spend half their time shaking their bodies in pseudo-religious
    ecstacy, and the other trying to curse their neighbor's cows.  And ever
    since somebody told them that oatmeal lowers cholesterol, they all walk
    around with shit-eating grins like they discovered penicillin or something.

    Message: 61063
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Rod 1
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 13:41:42

    Rod, this is a series of 4 messages in response to your post # 61028.  I'm
    preparing this off line because of the diversity of your questions.  I
    wasn't sure if your questions were serious, tongue-in-cheek, or sarcastic,
    but I will assume they are serious.

    Rod:  "Just how does this heirachy work, Bob?"

    Bob:  God is at the top; this includes God the Father, God the Son, and God
    the Holy Spirit.  I know some deny the Trinity, but that's OK; I won't
    squabble over it.

    Rod:  "What, no daughters?"

    Bob:  God made lots of daughters.  But not on the level of Jesus Christ the
    Son.  My wife is a daughter of God in the same manner that I am a son of
    God.  We are children of God, but not like Jesus is the Son of God.

    Romans 8:15-17  - - - but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we
    cry, "Abba, Father."  The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we
    are God's children.  Now if we are children, then we are heirs--heirs of God
    and co-heirs with Christ, - - -

    Rod:  "I would assume from your post that a direct son is higher ranking
    than an angel, correct?"

    Bob:  According to the Bible:

    Hebrews 2:6-8  - - - "What is man that you are mindful of him, the son of
    man that you care for him?  You made him a little lower than the angels; you
    crowned him with glory and honor and put everything under his feet." In
    putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him.
    Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.

    Jesus is God.  Jesus is higher than the angels, but when Jesus came to earth
    as mankind, he became a little lower than the angels.  It's like he stepped
    down from his throne for a period of time and became a man, but yet he was
    still God.

    Rod:  "I am not female, I am male.  Wouldn't this make me a son of God?  Or
    am I not good enough to be a son like Jesus?"

    Bob:  Yes, you can be a son of God.  John 1:12-13  Yet to all who received
    him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children
    of God--  children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a
    husband's will, but born of God.

    But, if you reject him instead of receiving him, you cannot be a child of
    God.

    John 8:42-44  Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love
    me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he
    sent me.  Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to
    hear what I say.  You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to
    carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not
    holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks
    his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

    Rod:  "If Satan is ONLY an angel and not a son then why doesn't God just zap
    him out of existence?"

    Bob:  I don't know.  God has a plan, and he will take came of the devil at
    the proper time.

    Rod:  "How would you find out about ANYTHING new that has happened in the
    past several thousand years?  The Bible has never been updated, only changed
    quite a bit."

    Bob:  There is nothing new to God.  He is omniscient.  When God made his
    will known to man through the writings of prophets, he told us everything we
    needed to know.  I cannot imagine God in heaven saying, "Rats!  I forgot to
    put that in my Bible." or "How did that happen; that wasn't in my plans." or
    "I better send a revision down to clarify that point."  There are many
    reasons why a person cannot understand portions of the Bible, but the fault
    is not with God.  It was God's intention that some would not understand.

    Matthew 13:10  The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the
    people in parables?"

    Matthew 13:13-16  This is why I speak to them in parables: "Though seeing,
    they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.  In them is
    fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: "'You will be ever hearing but never
    understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.  For this
    people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and
    they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear
    with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal
    them.'  But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because
    they hear.

    Message: 61067
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Bob/last few...
    Date: 09/16/89  Time: 22:36:00

            GREAT response Bob!   Rod will skim over it without really reading
    it or trying to understand it.

            I liked it!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61069
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/17/89  Time: 02:14:53

    Wow.  You'll be up for a Pulitzer for sure.

    Message: 61070
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob Thornburg
    Date: 09/17/89  Time: 05:31:18

    You deserve at least an !!E!! for Effort. However, while still hopeful, I
    have this nagging fear that in at least two cases on this board, the words
    of God said it best. "Having ears, they WILL not hear."

    Message: 61071
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/Satan
    Date: 09/17/89  Time: 07:28:16

    If Satan does not have any power - why did God have to send down (sacrifice
    horriably) His beloved son Jesus because all of mankind was following the
    path of Satan? Seems to me he must have been a pretty powerful dude.
    Christians are sinful all the time (satan's ways) but they are forgiven
    because of Christ's sacrifice! Maybe he won't win any souls, but he sure is
    influencing eh? He hasn't the power enough to tempt people and they are
    condemned to hell for eternity? More and more people are turning into
    atheists and agnostics in our society. If all of this is true, then Satan is
    influencing right??? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61072
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Rod skimming
    Date: 09/17/89  Time: 07:33:43

    I doubt very much that Rod skims over anything written on Apollo!
                                 -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61074
    Author: Steve Hodode
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: religion
    Date: 09/17/89  Time: 17:17:34

            The word "resentment," which comprehends all sorts of
    feelings of rancor, spite, envy, grudge, jealousy, and hatred,
    was given new meaning by Nietzche. When such feelings are
    inhibited and therefore become unconscious to the subject,
    they manifest themselves in disguised forms, notably as false
    morality. Christian morality, Nietzsche proclaimed, was a
    refined form of resentment; it was a morality of slaves who
    were unable to overly rebel against their oppressors and
    therefore took to this devious way of rebelling, thereby
    feeling superior while humiliating their enemies. The
    Christian command, "Love thine enemy," Nietzche says, is a
    subtle way of driving one's enemies to exasperation, hence
    a most cruel vengeance.

    The Discovery of the Unconscious by Henri Ellenberger page 274

    Message: 61075
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Danbey??
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 02:00:03

    "It is evil and irresponsible to create conditions which allow suffering,
    especially when you are an omnipotent being.."

    So it's evil and irresponsible to have freedom then. I think you miss
    all of the cognitive functions required to comprehend FREEDOM and
    FREE-WILL. Being omnipotent has no limits. Why would God create a field
    of tin soldiers incapable of doing anything for themselves?
    God wanted company. Man. Man, a God-like creature capable of changing his
    environment, his situation and his mind to suit his needs.
    You missed the entire concept here. We're not puppets.
    You also seem to have missed what value LOVE has and its origins.
    You can't have pure love without free will.

    You should send your opinions about freedom to the press. They'll have fun.

    BTW: Freedom and Free will are not conditions condusive explicit to
    create or cause suffering. It's the abuse and misuse of Freedom and
    Free will...anoth concpet lacking in today's self-centered, responsibility
    evading crowd. READ MY LIPS: **YOU** are responsible for what YOU do
    and what you DONT do. Freedom has a price: There's no nursemaid service.

    Message: 61076
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod's claims
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 02:08:15

    Ever notice how ROd resorts to exhortations of his side's better
    and perfect viewpoint rather than taking the issues.
    Each time I see one of these posts, it reminds me of advertising
    campagnes from APS while they were building Palo Verde.

    And now another propoganda barrage from Rod Williams...

    Message: 61077
    Author: Tim Courtney
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 04:17:19

    I shall give you another opportunity to answer my question:  If God is
    incapable of evil, and yet God has free-will, why should it be necessary to
    be capable of evil in order to have free-will?

    Message: 61078
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 05:30:54

     I must be masochistic to even respond to your warped ideological posts,
    since you read only what you want to read, and since your little head is all
    made up and can never be confused with anything resembling facts anyway.
     I did not say that Satan had no power. I did not say that he had no
    following. What I said was, and I'll try this yet again, as useless as it
    may be, that FOR THOSE OF US WHO KNOW CHRIST AS SAVIOUR, AND THEREBY HAVE A
    PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD, Satan is an eternally defeated foe. He has
    no ultimate or eternal power over us, since or lives are hid in Christ.
     Does that make us perfect? Of course not! Are we any less human? Of course
    not! Do we slip and fall into human error, the same as the heathen or
    atheist? Of course we do! Are we then any better than anyone else? ONLY in
    the sense that we have the security of the believer, and KNOW that we KNOW
    that in Christ, and through His eternal sacrifice for sin, we are forgiven,
    and our eternity is secure.
     WHat, then, is the difference between me and thee? Only the precious blood
    of Jesus, and the fact that I have accepted His sacrifice for my sins and
    have made Him the Loof my life. Does that fact allow me to continue in a
    sinful lifestyle? Absolutely not! As a Christian, I TRY (read that word
    again please! I TRY!) to live a life worthy of the calling. I don't always
    succeed, since I am still a human being, subject to all the failings of all
    other humans, even you Ann. It's just that when I do slip, I know that I can
    turn to my heavenly Father, and say, "Sorry Father. I blew it again.", and
    He will always say, in effect, "That's OK son, I have already forgiven you.
    I did that 2000 years ago, because I knew you and loved you even then."

    Message: 61079
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul/your post
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 09:04:50

    Re: Nietzche - "... thereby feeling superior while humiliating their
    enemies" .... sure sounds like your post to me! Half of it was puffing
    yourself up and treating me like somekind of nut to be asking such questions
    and the other half was contridictory at best. It is you that do not read my
    posts or anyone elses on the subject. Humility is certainly NOT one of your
    Christian virtures. I was not asking those questions to berate you or argue
    - I ask them to clarify. Satan is a subject that has always interested me
    and I like to get people's opinion.
    In one post you say Satan has no power - in the very next one, you tell me
    your not perfect - you sin and ask Gods forgiveness and are contrite. If
    Satan isn't wielding his power on you, who is? Isn't all evil (sin) suppose
    to be Satan's handiwork? I wish you would stick to the questions instead of
    telling me what a good Christian you are. If you don't want to answer, then
    let someone else. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61080
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 61025
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 10:08:07

    I have no "cavalier attitude" toward any suffering.  How dare you.  You have
    no idea what I've been through in my life, and absolutely no idea what
    suffering I've experienced and witnessed.

    Message: 61081
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Vote
    Subject: ????
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 17:27:44

            Who was the one who oted for choice  ?  Part of that answer
    was that you would elaborate on this board in a post using this ote
    category...  Where is it?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61082
    Author: Tanisha Valese
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Suffering
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 18:03:37

    My, what big character you have...

    Message: 61083
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Tim Courtney
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 18:50:22

    I think you don't understand your own question.
    God is incapable of doing evil? No, I don't think that's true.
    Evil is opposite to Gods nature, but being omnipotent allows him the
    option. He divested himself of evil. Part of this I believe includes
    something to do with the "void" he created to separate the two..good
    and evil.
    Why is it necessary to be capable of evil in order to have free will?
    The question is backwards. Free will appears to be completely misunderstood
    here. I wonder what you think free will is?
    My definition: The ability, capability and power to do anything you please,
    the power to choose, make descions, act them out, change your mind,
    the power, ability, and capability to decide what you like, what you don't
    and what you love and don't love.
    Having free will allows us to follow rules or not. No one can prevent you
    from making your own choices. Without this free will, we'd be PUPPETS.
    So. Hopefully you can see your answer here; to summarize:
    NO FREE WILL = No CHOICES
    Being FORCED to love is contradictory. Love cannot be forced. Love doesn't
    exist without free will. God wants us to love him. The only way we can
    do that is to see for ourselves who and what he is and come to love him
    on our own..by making bad turns and right turns in our life. His teachings
    are there as a guide. We've been given this life here to find him and
    choose wether or not to spend eternity with him. OUR choice. Your choice.

    Message: 61084
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hell
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 19:06:42

    When someone blames God for creating a place of eternal punishment
    I wonder where they get their information. Rod likes to blame all of
    mans shortcommings and the worlds ills on God. Why not? Rod doesn't believe
    in God and God is as good as scapegoat as any in his book. Rod likes to
    bash what he doesn't understand, so to continue his blame campagne
    he takes God and bashes everything and anyone connected with him.

    In regards to my last post..one would wonder where the people go who choose
    NOT to spend eternity with God. Quite frankly I strongly think that there'll
    be plenty of company. Plenty of room too. Only one thing missing:
    God and anybody or anything that has anything to do with him. Punishment?
    God wont even be there...flames? Fire? Brimstone? -you're reading
    too many comic books. Those references described in the bible are relating
    to the hunger from within. The abscence of good. The abscence of love.
    The abscence of anything relating to God. "All good things come from God
    and God alone."
    So what you're left with is the rest of humanity who decided that God
    wasn't for them and since they refused his gift of eternal salvation they're
    left with their own sins...kinda like what goes around comes around in
    a major way. Imagine a place with all the hate and the people who stir it
    up. Ahh, but you say you're not going there because you're "good".
    Well, you'll be there if you don't want God. You make that choice of your
    own *FREE WILL* , to accept him or to reject him. When it's all said and
    done..there'll be nobody else you can blame except yourself.

    Message: 61085
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Vote
    Subject: The *second*  vot
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 21:06:24

    I *usually* vote when prompted.  I always look the first time, and often
    other times to see how things are going (or to see if I can decide if I
    didn't ote the first time.  Sometimes I wish that one could see the
    current tabulation without voting, but that can turn the ote into a
    bandwagon-jumping situation.

    How turned out the last vote, eh???

    Message: 61086
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: BEER!
    Date: 09/18/89  Time: 23:26:08

            For those of you who like to drink Beer, and believe in our
    constitutional right to own and bear arms... You might like to know that
    COORS Beer feels the same way and supports that right OPENLY!

            Drink COORS....

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61087
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 02:06:59

    That's an interesting statement.  Where was this stated?  I would be
    interested in the entire article (or whatever).

    Message: 61088
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: COORS & CLIFF
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 02:54:53

    "The right to keep and *bare* arms" --eh ?
    You mean they support the right of every individual to go without
    a shirt with sleeves ?
    How about the "topless" issue...what's their position on that?
    I'll bet it goes along the lines of
    "Beer drinking folks say no-one tops us"

    Message: 61090
    Author: Scranton Newjersey
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Todd Reese
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 03:27:01

    What do your experiences have to do with your attitude toward suffering?
    I imagine that some of the most callous people in the world have themselves
    suffered.  Sensitivity is not a function of experience.

    It is clear by your own absurd comparisons and euphamisms that you have
    neither suffered greatly, nor do you understand the essence of suffering.
    Otherwise, you would not compare life's tragedies with a spanking, or have
    the audacity to consider fatal, intensely painful circumstances as "learning
    experiences."  Then again, perhaps you are simply an idiot.  Perhaps you
    are simply one of those people who insists that every disease and deformity,
    every broken bone and every gangrenous limb, are some obscure blessing in
    disguise.  Little Tommy gets kidnapped, sodomized, and bludgeoned to death:
    it must be God's will.  No doubt the kid has done something (shoplifted some
    bubble gum, no doubt) for which he must be taught a lesson.

    Message: 61091
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 03:45:26

    Scranton is in Pennsylvania.

    Message: 61092
    Author: James Edwards
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 61091
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 04:23:10

    No, really?

    Message: 61093
    Author: James Edwards
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 04:34:08

    If God is capable of evil, then he is capable of error, since evil is a form
    of moral error.  If God is capable of error, he is not a perfect being.  He
    cannot be all wise, because evil is a form of folly.  He cannot be
    all-powerful, because evil is a form of weakness.  God, then, as you define
    him, is a flawed being, capable of error.
    You define free will, in part, as "the ability to do anything you please."
    It is patently obvious that men cannot do anything they please.  Quite
    often, they cannot even sustain themselves.  If then, we are limited in what
    we may do, even in the cause of good, it is obvious that free will is a
    relative quality.  It should be possible for a theoretically omnipotent
    being to create beings who can choose to do anything they wish except evil.
    It is certainly possible for an omnipotent being to prevent the consequences
    of evil choices, that is, evil acts, and their results.
    But no benevolent, wise creator would make possible conditions of suffering.
     If evil is associated with the existence of imperfect beings, he would not
    create imperfect beings.
    Free will as you define it does not exist.  Men cannot do or choose,
    unconditionally, what they want.  There are many things that they cannot
    decide.  There are many decisions that cannot be changed, once acted upon.
    Free will, then, is the relative power to do and choose to do some things.
    Love then, exists without the ability to do many things.  It can certainly
    exist without the capacity for evil.

    You claim God loves all creatures unconditionally.  Yet it is clear from
    your dogma that God's love for man depends upon man's love for God.
    As far as suffering and free will are concerned, a benevolent creator would
    not allow the existence of pestilence and natural disaster.  Obviously, the
    rocks, rain, fire,microbes, DNA, etc., have no free will.  What, exactly, is
    the lesson to be learned by an infant born with a fatal heart deformity?
    What about animals?  They don't have souls, or free will, according to some.
     What need have they for the capacity to cause each other suffering?  As
    Darwin once wrote:
    "Surely you can see that the Old Testament, from its manifestly false
    history of the Earth, and from its attributing to God the feelings of an
    egomaniacal tyrant, is not to be trusted any more than any other holy book.
    The New Testament does not fare any better, and indeed, I can hardly see how
    any moral, humane being ought to wish Christianity to be true; for if so,
    the plain language of the text seems to imply that men who do not believe
    (and this would include many essentially good people) will be everlastingly
    punished.  And this is a petty, Draconian and damnable doctrine.  Consider
    the imposition of suffering -- on animals by men, on man by his own kind --
    and by the clumsy, wasteful, blundering, low, and cruel works of nature: as
    seen in the suffering caused by parasites and in the delight in cruelty
    shown by some predators when catching and "playing" with their prey.  If God
    is as almighty, omniscient, and possessed of such inexhaustible compassion
    as he is painted, it revolts our understanding to reconcile such facts."

    Message: 61095
    Author: Emil Meynen
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Nick/Scranton
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 04:57:13

    There is also a Scranton, Iowa, a Scranton, North Dakota, a Scranton, New
    York...

    Message: 61096
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 05:57:30

    Again you misread and refuse to even try to comprehend that which disagrees
    with your baseless philosophy.
     In the first place, I did not, nor have I EVER set myself up as any sort of
    example of the epitome of everything a "good Christian" should be. On the
    contrary, I have said time and time again that I am NOT the example. Jesus
    Christ is the example. The ONLY example. I am nothing more than a miserable
    sinner saved by the grace of a great big wonderful God, and He is the one I
    point youto, Not me.
     Secondly, you err again in blaming the devil for the errors of the flesh.
    No, he does not control me or my actions. THe mistakes I make, the blunders
    I fall into, are mine, not his, and I accept full responsibility for them.
    Your problem again is that you do not even understand the composition of
    man,or the fact that we are all tripartite beings, a spirit, having a soul,
    living in a body. THe body is representative of the flesh, and is prone to
    all that the flesh can fall heir to. Far too many people try to take the
    easy way out of their responsibility with such false statements as "the
    devil made me do it". That, Ann, is a bunch of hogwash! THe truth is that
    the devil cannot "make" me do anything that my flesh doesn't want to do. If
    youcan't understand that simplest of concepts, then you had better turn in
    your Bible, if you have one, and join Williams' little club. Just stop
    bashing those things that you don't understand. If you want to continually
    criticize my GOd, you shold really try to learn a little more about him.
    That's what a lot of ex-atheists did, only to become true believers when
    they learned what a big God He really is.

    Message: 61097
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul/last
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 06:52:30

    Here again you peppered your post with all my short comings re: the Bible
    and what I don't know. You say I keep bashing those things I don't
    understand -- what is all this? Some big dark secret that only God has
    revealed to you or something? If you do not know that some (a lot of)
    Christians believe that all the bad/sinning/evil things they do the devil
    caused - then you do NOT understand. This is very common knowledge.
    You say I continually criticize your God. For one thing, I do not. Read a
    little closer. Secondly - since when is He just your God?
    Things you do not know about me ..... I have 3 Bibles and have read them
    many tImes and Im talking throughout! I was a Sunday school teacher for many
    years and I'm not an athiest or an agnostic regardless of what you may
    think. I have come to believe in God in MY own way - not by reading (trying)
    the Bible (it is only a guideline) - not by listening to some preacher,
    minister or priest who does not know any more than I do. I am not a sheep!
    Also, I want to point out that I am interested in what you have to say - but
    when you name call - point you finger - it falls on deaf ears. You say Jesus
    is your example - I don't see it. He wasn't egotistical or self rightious
    like your coming across. Why must you do this to have a conversation?
                               -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61098
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: In the paper today
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 07:20:04

    There is a picture (in color yet) in todays paper showing men on a boat full
    of poison. It read ... 'Members of the Arizona Game and Fish Dept. check
    their gear before setting up a "fish kill" in Lake Pleasant, north of
    Phoenix. The kill is part of joint state-federal study to determine how many
    and what kinds of fish are in the popular recreation area'! It had a heading
    of 'Unpleasant business'!
    Pardon me, but if this makes a bit of sense, I'm willing to listen. Am I
    reading it wrong, but are they going to kill the fish to see what kind are
    in the lake? Does that make sense? Didn't we  pay through licenses etc. to
    put the fish there to begin with? Through park fees to get into the lake to
    fish? It is too late to protest this ridicious action because it's already
    over with. What in the hell do these idiots have in mind?
                              -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61099
    Author: $ Jeannie Innajug
    Category: Vote
    Subject: My E vote
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 07:30:56

    Hey.............................Cliffie..............
    I hesitate to add my vote to any category where the wording does not match
    my opinions on a subject.  Such as this one where I am required to explain
    my vote in order to post it.  C'mon, guys, every poll has at least one
    "non-committed" category for those whose opinion is not represented in the
    "canned" answers.

    See Y'aa..............
    Jeannie

    Message: 61100
    Author: $ Jeannie Innajug
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Jeannie in Boston
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 07:43:56

    Hey...............................Y'all................

    It's been really great to have spent a year loggin' on the Apollo board.  I
    just accepted a job in Boston (Beantown) and started this week.  I don't
    have access to a computer now, and will have to log on when I can get a
    chance on someone else's machine.

         Now that I'm living with all these eastern liberals maybe I can marry
    one and afford to become a liberal myself.  (Note to the resident female
    liberal on Apollo.  If you're single and raising a couple of kids it's hard
    to be able to afford to be a liberal.)

    Anyway, don't kill yourselves arguing about religion. etc.

    See Y'aa..............
    Jeannie

    Message: 61101
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 19:37:35

    I plan to visit Boston in November.  However, I probably will not see you
    when I'm there.

    Message: 61102
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Coors
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 19:38:56

    Coors also supports the Heritage Foundation, which pays my salary.  So when
    you drink Coors you are helping make it possible for me to call Apollo.
    Coors Extra Gold is also a pretty good beer.

    Message: 61103
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 19:48:28

    Re:  "Who was the one who oted for choice  ?"

    It wasn't me!

    Message: 61104
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James Edwards
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 19:55:44

    Re:  "Darwin once wrote:
    "Surely you can see that the Old Testament, from its manifestly false
    history of the Earth, and from its attributing to God the feelings of an
    egomaniacal tyrant, is not to be trusted any more than any other holy book."

    Gees, I thought Darwin was a Christian.

    Message: 61106
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject:  Votes
    Date: 09/19/89  Time: 22:47:50

    Well, two our of four of us have explained our votes...

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