### Apollo BBS Archive - May 2, 1990

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 65239
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Gordon
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 05:08:28

    Interesting.  Cliff capitalizes sex...
    Anyway, I think you assume too much.  You come up with these scenarios that
    I think may be valid but I definitely would not agree to be a majority view
    of women.  I don't think if a man finds me sexually attractive that he is a
    pig.  If that is ALL he can see, then he's got a problem.  And just excusing
    the fact that men are aroused by female body part as just a part of nature I
    think is pretty weak. I think that women are also visually simulated.  I
    don't buy the idea that men like pictures and women like stories.  It's just
    as bad as saying men are good at math and women are good at English.  It
    just sluffs off any responsibility of the man and gives excuses for the
    women to do poorly.  I don't think you can make blanket statements about a
    gender, especially sex.  Ann and I have both said that we would be
    interested in seeing a woman's adult magazine with some balls, so to speak.
    So, 66% of the woman who habitually use Apollo (you forgot Sandy) have said
    they are visually sexually aroused.
    I think some of the anger about the nude pix is jealousy.  In our culture
    right now, those women in the magazines are what society thinks is beautiful
    and most "average" women do not fit into the same mold.  (Neither do the
    models, really.  I mean, Playboy and Penthouse air brush the prints and
    shoot some of the pictures through special filters.)
    It is only in the last decade that male explotation has been used in
    advertising.  I don't know how this makes men feel.  I would assume being
    bombared with commercials telling you that you must look trim and very cut
    up with muscles might be intimidating to them as well.

    Message: 65240
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 05:10:26

    No.  After watching the poorly shot camera work and the choice of people
    they put on screen, I just started jotting stuff down.  I can't think of a
    particular incident that inspired me, just the whole thing, ya know?

    Message: 65241
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Roger/whining
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 05:34:47

    "I think there is entirely too much whining on the board."
     The door swings both ways. Don't let it hit you on the rear on your way
    out.

    Message: 65242
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on everybody
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 05:39:36

     Well Cliff, it looks like you are at least getting plenty of reaction to
    your posts! Isn't that what BBSing is all about? Congratulations!
    Hang in there, and keep speaking your mind! It's not such a bad one!

    Message: 65243
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Women, etc.
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 05:49:55

     No man stands so tall as when he stoops to do a "woman's job".
     About the only thing I don't do around here is sew, and that's only because
    I would botch it up if I tried. I cook. I bake (my own bread too!). I do the
    laundry. I clean the house. (Well, almost.) I also maintain 2 vehicles and
    the house (at least until the deal closes. THen I'm free from that, thank
    God!)
     My wife and I get along just fine, in every aspect of our life together. I
    don't feel that my "macho" image has been damaged in the least. Neither does
    she. Couldn't care less what anyone else thinks.

    Message: 65244
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: deodorant
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 07:38:19

    Mighty weak insult, Cliff.

    Message: 65245
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul/whiner
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 07:44:38

    Please see my post on carte blanche. Go for it !

    Message: 65246
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: All these messages
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 09:11:42

    I don't have time for this.

    Message: 65247
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/#65221
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 09:34:11

    Re: middle ground --- that post could apply to anyone here Cliff. In fact,
    if someone agrees with me once a week, I'm happy as a pig in clover! Jeff
    Beck has left the system because you supposedly insulted him? That's his
    problem. Who hasn't he insulted - who haven't I insulted - who haven't you
    insulted? Roger thinks your a gun nut? What kind of nut do you think he is?
    Zak, James think your illiterate? Don't you think they are too at times? I
    don't remember in the last almost three years I've been here that anyone has
    been too nice to everyone else for any length of time. Do you? So what's
    new? If you want nice then join the JCCS BBS that I belong to. No one
    insults anyone - ever. That's fine, but give me the good ole Apollo heated
    debates/insults/fights/Christian bashing/Athiest bashing/general bashing/
    etc. etc. That to me is what makes this system uniques and enjoyable. Yet at
    any GT I feel right at home - never has anything that has been said here
    spoiled one. I like everyone. I know you do to and are good friends with a
    lot here. So come on Cliff - smile! We're all in the same boat.
    I am sorry some one sent you an alias letter. That was a low blow and it
    would have hurt me to get one too. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 65248
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon on men
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 09:51:23

    I have tried with out success to get the men here to discuss such things. I
    find that men in general does not want to hear what women think and feel -
    maybe they prefer to to believe what they want. Someday I would like to find
    out why men make such a big deal out of looking at girly magazines. I do not
    mean on occasion, but a subscription to lets say Playboy. These pictures are
    so touched up they are not even close to what the woman/women look like in
    real life. Many of them have had bust enlargement operations and other
    cosmetic surgery. In other words, sheer un-reality. It seems to me that if a
    man gets it into his head this is what women should look like, he will never
    find one because they do not exist. He may get married and stay married,
    still looking at these pictures - maybe getting turned on by them and not
    his wife and before ya know it, divorce rears it's ugly head because the
    woman doesn't understand his fetish for such pictures/fantasies.
    Occasionally yes, all the time, no! I always felt such magazines were for
    the teenage mentality, not adult men. But alas, that isn't the case. How
    would men feel if their wives/lovers looked at such things all the time?
    Would they understand? Would they think it a womanly thing to do? Just they
    way it is? I doubt it. It would make them feel inadequate(sp?). As it does
    sometimes to women. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 65249
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Sandy
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 09:53:33

    If that's true, how come you keep chaining Sandy to the bed post? *Heh
                                   -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 65250
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa on pix
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 09:59:31

    My hats off to you. You sure can tell it like it is better than I can.
    In fact, you are one of the rare women that will admit to such things.
    Re: "I think some of the anger about the nude pix (of men) is jealousy"!
    My comnment to that --- "BRAVO"!!! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 65251
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 10:05:55

    Re: your comment - "No man stands so tall as when he stoops to do a woman's
    work" ..... I think I'm gonna go throw up! What pray tell is woman's work?
    Man's work in this day and age? A man can clean a toilet as well as anyone
    else can't he? As a matter of fact, if men had the consideration of sitting
    down instead of standing, no one would have to clean the toilets as often. I
    never understood why us women never got together and taught our sons to
    'sit' at a very young age! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 65252
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Mike C.
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 10:59:35

      That 'large part of life' I referred to in the post which got you so
    worked up is only the choice of a philosophy based upon reason or one based
    upon faith. The rest of the message explains that limiting the rejection of
    reason to only this leaves the person as close as possible to leading a
    rational life. I understand that you could easily mistake my meaning and
    think that 'large part of life' meant more than just a stand on religion,
    but the rest of the commentary should have clarified that for you long
    before now.
      I have not assumed how you act or think in any way, I have only
    acknowledged the well known fact that theism requires a major life governing
    decision which flies in the face of reason. How you act or think beyond that
    well established point depends on your ability to deal one way with that
    'large part of life' involved in accepting theism and another way with
    everything else. That the theist must fight this battle, and that how well
    they do it is something to be taken into account when dealing with them, has
    been the whole point. To say that I am completely wrong because you and
    others strive mightily against irrationality in the rest of your dealings,
    while remainging theists, fits my statements, it does not disprove them.
      On the matter of your seeing me as defensive about your assertions of
    bigotry, I think this is fairly transparent. Even people who don't know me
    should be able to see that there is no basis for those charges in what I am
    saying here. For the sake of argument however, what if these same things
    were said by someone who did happen to be a bigot? Would that make them any
    less true? No, it would only make it easier for theists to dismiss the
    statements without addressing them, by discrediting the source. You can take
    a statement that is practically self evident, and by successfully smearing
    the person who said it you can, through association, attack that statement
    without ever addressing it. It happens everyday, but what do you do if you
    can't divert attention away from the offending statement by calling
    attention to the person who made it?
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 65254
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann on toilets
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 11:29:58

    Girl, you crack me up!
    I can just see it now.  A convention of women teaching their sons to sit
    down and the husbands in the background clearin their throats and hollering.
    "Don't do that woman!  You're gonna make him a sissy.  Son, don't you sit
    down now.  Stand tall, show them whose boss..."
    Wow.  I never knew going to the bathroom could be such a power trip.

    Message: 65255
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ann/playboy
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 12:31:51

    Actually, based upon my experience, there is little reward in ogling the
    various beautiful bare babes boobs and other naughty parts in the mags. The
    women are so perfect, so unattainable, so "plastic" that they hold very
    little appeal. Now, when I was a teenager, it was very exciting to see such
    forbidden stuff. That was back in the 50's and early 60's before women were
    wearing bathing suits that were previously seen only in the most risque
    journals. I let my subscription to Playboy lapse over 20 years ago ! So, I'm
    with you Ann, I don't think that such mags hold very much appeal. Even
    reading Melissa's entries in the Cosmos sig is not exciting. No offense,
    Melissa, you are a genius writer. What is exciting is a look, a winsome
    smile, a flirtation, a softness and feminity. Then, again, I could be weird.

    Message: 65256
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 12:56:54

            Well Paul, I do the sewing in this household, and I do my share of
    the dusting, dishes and even some laundry.  I do not feel it is just a
    "woman's job"... I live here too!  I have only cooked a few times..I am not
    very good at it... I make up for it by taking Sandy out...LOTS!

                            clif-

    Message: 65257
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Alias
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 13:03:44

            I wish that person would have used his/her real name...  I propbably
    would not take it so hard then...  But as time passes, all wounds heal.
    Don't worry, I will still post my thoughts, but USERS...please don't always
    take it so personal like Jeff Beck, or Rod Williams.

                                    clif-

    Message: 65258
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 13:23:17

    You're right.  You're weird.

    Message: 65259
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bumper Sticker
    Date: 05/02/90  Time: 17:48:31

                            LIFESTYLES OF THE POOR AND UNKNOWN
    TJg"f[]Wk^?HT
    WFq
    VOICE

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