### Apollo BBS Archive - June 12, 1991

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 1805
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Auto polution?
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 00:06:23

            Funny, being next to my car does not get me sick.  Being in a room
    with a smoker does.

            The other argument...  So cars do pollute.. well, yes they do to a
    point.  But as you pointed out, they are needed in todays world. So, how
    does this justify smoking?  To needlessly pollute because cars pollute is
    plain silly.

            My Uncle Bob died from cigarettes... not exaust fumes from autos.
    You were not there.  I was, I went though the horror of his slow painful
    death.

    Message: 1806
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff/last
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:01:39

    Oh good god - here comes 'Uncle Bob' again!!!

    Did I ever tell you about my 'Uncle Alva' that lived to be 86 years old and
    smoked unfiltered cigarettes up to the end - which BTW, wasn't caused from
    smoking! He also smoked a pipe and cigars on occasion. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 1807
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod my man
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:12:03

    Regarding your three posts on smoking pollution vs auto pollution ...
    ... again, you come through with excellent, non-fanatical posts.

    BTW dear, did you ever notice that some of the people here that are so
    fanatical against other's smoking - use to smoke themselves? I always wonder
    how come it was alright for them to 'kill' people back then when they smoked
    and now that they don't, it is so wrong for anyone else to smoke????!!!
    Now they get bleeding sinuses and can smell a neighbor smoking in his house
    next door??

    I call these people fanatical when they cannot see that there is worse
    pollution, more dangerous things in the air than cigarette smoke. But since
    they can't fight the 'Big Boys' - the political machines, the oil companies,
    they pick on their friends, neighbors and loved ones.
                                     *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 1808
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff on sig.
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:14:46

    You say you are getting battered in the Christian sig? Would you care to say
    who is doing the battering? *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 1809
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Rod
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:20:06

    Re: your statement ....

    "I do speak my mind, and it is not distroyed like Rods on Drugs".

    Why would you say that Rod's mind is distroyed? That isn't true at all. If
    you want to be noted for speaking your mind then you'll have to change your
    insults so that you can be believed. In fact, I don't believe you at all - I
    know you don't believe that about him! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 1810
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:50:19

     I guess you know what your standing in, ankle deep or deeper. As for me,
    I'm standing on the solid rock.
     So you think that Rod's ramblings are the product of a "free" mind? On thre
    contrary, dearie. They are the result of years of imprisonment in a warped
    world of drugs and confusion.
     The only real freedom comes from the truth. "Ye shall know the truth, and
    the truth shall make you free." "Whom the Son (of God) sets free is free
    indeed."

    Message: 1811
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:55:41

     To the best of my knowledge, there are no figures dealing with airplane,
    auto and/or industrial pollution.
     None of which makes the very real figures on smoking related deaths any
    less valid.
     Cute doesn't cut it, and I haven't been IN a ball park in years.

    Message: 1812
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod/Smoke
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 09:50:53

    I think the idea is to eliminate both kinds of pollution. Second hand smoke
    should be a lot easier than getting rid of systemic pollution like auto
    emissions. Auto emissions can be controlled somewhat, but still the vast
    majority of emissions are due to carbon-based combustion. If we all had
    hydrogen fuelled cars or electric autos, then that source of pollution would
    be eliminated. Of course, the manufacture of batteries and electricity and
    hydrogen may cause other forms of pollution.

    So, as far as smoking is concerned it is the easiest to take care of. All
    you have to do if someone is offending you with their second-hand smoke is
    to ask them to stop smoking. Being polite individuals, sensitive to the
    needs of others, they will gracefully put out their cigarette or cigar.

    Message: 1813
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Pauley
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 12:16:05

    Re: your ... "to the best of my knowledge, there are no figures dealing with
    airplane, auto and/or industrial pollution."

    All kidding aside, I wonder why??!! I'd be willing to bet all of them do
    more damage to us than cigarette smokers. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 1814
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: POLLUTION/ROD
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 18:21:05

         Obviously your mind has been completely destroyed by drugs.
    I'd explain further, but I must drive up to Circle-K and buy a case of beer
    now.

    Message: 1815
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Blowing Smoke
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 21:25:19

    RE: "Here we go with Uncle Bob again!"
    From someone who wholeheartedly approves of the slaughter and murder
    of unborn babies, I'd say this latest crass statement of yours is par
    for the course. As you so merrily discount, with a puff and a wave of
    your yellowing hands, Cliffs feelings and pain he endured over a loved one.
    But, what the heck?, it's just another human life and we all see that life
    means little to you , unless of course, it's your own self righteous hide.
    It's just another justifiable reason to keep puffing away. Like, it's *your*
    body and you can do with it as you damn please, right? I mean, nobody
    really loves you enough to care if you died a twisted, painful and horribly
    ugly death now, do they? Ah, who cares if any of your relatives are
    emotionally scarred for life? They're just failed abortions anyway, should
    have used the coat hanger on 'em. To hell with the facts, gimme another
    pack. Rack 'em up, puff puff puff.
    Yeah, Cliff must have dreamed up his uncle Bob. He dreamed about the pain
    and suffering, the agony of watching someone he loved die in misery.
    A worthless death. So unecessary. Yeah, sure, Ann, discount it till you
    hit zero. Because zero is what you're worth dead.

    Message: 1816
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Me mind
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 21:40:16

    Yeth, my mind has been, like totally destroyed by drugs.  Just because I am
    my own boss and am very good at what I do, pay no heed.  The drugs really
    got to me.

    When I have to make a key for a Jaguar or Mercedes I can't.  I just tell the
    people to call someone who is a drug free Christian.

    Although I've trained about eight other people to become locksmiths,
    Burkhart and Hawley included that doesn't mean I have a mind.

    Oh well, gotta go smoke some more crack and shoot up some whiskey.

                                    Rod the bod

    Message: 1817
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Today
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 21:47:11

    Today a fellow told me that his brother was on marijuana and he killed five
    people in a bad traffic accident.  After questioning him, he later admitted
    that his brother also had been drinking.

    This is like living in a polluted world and dying from cigarette smoke which
    was probably a contributing factor but not the whole picture.

    If someone works in a steel mill or is a minor and they smoke, then die then
    it all ties in together.  All were contributing factors.

    We all are at a disatvantage because we live in a polluted city.  We cannot
    help but breathe in the airplane exhaust, the pesticides, car pollution and
    the like.  Any one of these are contributing factors but at death, the
    doctor who performs the autoposy would probably, for simplicity list the
    death as from smoking.

    Public Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 75679
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Ortega
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 05:46:09

    I truly wonder what is behind all of this - his resignation?! From what I've
    read, I've sort of gotten the impression that the politicos don't want
    anymore Azscams or at least they want to control the police dept. in what
    they do. Maybe I'm wrong and it's just his ego talking. What is your
    opinion? *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75680
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff on shooting
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 05:48:41

    You mean someone is shooting off a gun in your neighborhood? I'd consider
    that a nice neighborhood too. Is there no excape from this sort of thing?
                               *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75681
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Bill/Ortega
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:26:37

     And so the saga continues. He quits. He doesn't quit. He quits again.
     What a merry-go-round! Maybe this time, somebody will accept his
    resignation once and for all, and get on with the business of finding
    someone who can fill the bill. I'm sure that there are a number of well
    qualified people within the organization that wold love the opportunity to
    be chief. I fail to see the reasoning behind a "nation-wide" search, which
    is what the city fathers are now proposing. Is nobody qualified locally? If
    not, perhaps the police training methods are in sad need of review.

    Message: 75682
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Mobil
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:29:59

     I don't know about political, but I do smell something about more money for
    Mobil's coffers. At the rate that alcohol evaporates in the Phoenix summer
    weather, by the time you get the cap on your tank, that last gallon you just
    put in is alread reduced by probably 1 or 2 %. That, and the vapor lock that
    they now deny happens, should give good cause to buy your gas elsewhere.

    Message: 75683
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: volcano
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 06:34:17

    Clark air base, near the volcano, was evacuated. Personnel were moved to a
    naval base on the island (maybe Subic?). Meanwhile, rocks and ash from the
    volcano were falling in the ocean, some 24 or 26 miles away. At the same
    time, a major eruption is taking place in the south of Japan. That's two
    major incidences in the same general part of the world. Could it
    be??????????

    Message: 75684
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Ann on Ortega
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 08:00:14

    > I truly wonder what is behind all of this - [Ortega's]
    > resignation?!

    I'd lay money he's going to run for mayor.  No candidate -- credible or
    otherwise -- has announced to run against Paul Johnson, a Democrat.  (Even
    though the mayoral election is supposedly non-partisan party affiliation is
    VERY important.)

    Ortega is:  (1) already well-known; (2) Republican; (3) a member of a
    minority group (helping him appeal to traditionally Democratic voters); and
    (4) backed by several important political powerhouses including John McCain
    and the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce.

    He's denying it now, but Ortega will be in the race.  I think.

    Message: 75685
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Paul-Ruben's Heir
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 08:00:41

    > I fail to see the reasoning behind a "nation-wide" search [for
    > a new police chief], which is what the city fathers are now
    > proposing. Is nobody qualified locally?

    There are several individuals inside the Phoenix PD who would do a fine job
    as chief.  It's just that it's fashionable to do a nationwide search first;
    makes the City Manager look like he's doing his job as thoroughly as
    possible.  Getting the best man in the whole country for the position.

    The trick will be to pick someone who's not in Ortega's inner circle.  I
    wouldn't want any of the current Assistant Chiefs to be named, but know of
    several others within the Department who are not only qualified in terms of
    their resumes, but would run the Department in a much more, for lack of a
    better term, enlightened manner.

    Message: 75686
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/could it be ???
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 09:37:38

    Major tectonic activity ?

    Yes.

    Message: 75687
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Ortega Politics
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 09:38:30

    Hmm. Running on a kick the bastards out platform.

    Message: 75688
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hello
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 12:38:05

    Ah, NOW Beau had a chance to say Hello to me...

    Trouble with being away for three weeks is that the instant you get back, a
    whole bunch of people conspire to dump about 23 action items on you.  Hence
    my relative silence here...

    Message: 75689
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Marriage customs
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 12:46:02

    I did get a chance to look over what had passed on Apollo while I was away,
    and I noticed this discussion about 30-year-old women and three
    18-and-a-half-year-olds (or whatever it was).

    I remember hearing somewhere that there was -- maybe still is -- a tribe
    somewhere in the world (Africa?) with an interesting marriage custom.  They
    would marry their young girls off to older men, and their young men to older
    women.  ("Older" doesn't necessarily mean "60 or 70", of course, since life
    expectancy is a lot shorter in primitive societies.)  The idea was that the
    older partner would "introduce" the younger one to sex and to the marriage
    relationship in general, with the benefit of wisdom and experience.  It was
    expected, naturally, that the older partner would die first, leaving the
    younger partner a widow or widower, who would by that time have gained the
    same wisdom and experience and would in turn marry somebody a lot younger
    than themselves and pass on the benefit of what they had learned.  So
    everyone would usually have two marriages in their lifetime.

    Message: 75690
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Volcano
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 17:36:51

    Yeah, they evacuated Clark AFB except for some security
    folk.  Clark is located east of the volcano, but the volcano
    opened toward the north.  There was one casualty at Subic
    that may not be related -- a sailor in a bus accident.  Some
    of the security people at Clark ran away when it blew.
    (Can't blame them.)  All this was reported this morning.

    Gee.  There was a major, major solar flare this morning too.
    Silly, deadly omens, huh?

    Sorry to hear about your truck, Cliff.  I assume nobody was
    in it.

    Message: 75691
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Robber Barons
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 17:47:30

      John D. Rockefeller started as a bookkeeper in Cleveland,
    became a merchant, accumulated money, and decided that, in
    the new industry of oil, who controlled the oil refineries
    controlled the industry.  He bought his first oil refinery
    in 1862, and by 1870 set up Standard Oil Company of Ohio,
    made secret agreements with railroads to ship his oil with
    them if they gave him rebates -- discounts -- on their
    prices, and thus drove competitors out of business.
      One independent refiner said: "If we did not sell out ...
    we would be crushed out....  There was only one buyer on the
    market and we had to sell at their terms."  Memos like this
    one passed among Standard Oil officials: "Wilkerson & Co.
    received car of oil Monday 13th....  Please turn another
    screw."  A rival refinery in Buffalo was rocked by a small
    explosion arranged by Standard Oil officials with the
    refinery's chief mechanic.
      The Standard Oil Company, by 1899, was a holding company
    which controlled the stock of many other companies.  The
    capital was $110 million, the profit was $45 million a year,
    and John D. Rockefeller's fortune was estimated at $200
    million.  Before long he would move into iron, copper, coal,
    shipping, and banking (Chase Manhattan Bank).  Profits would
    be $81 million a year, and the Rockefeller fortune would
    total 2 billion dollars.

    Message: 75692
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Volcano
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 18:12:00

    Just heard the ash cloud is drifting closer to Subic.
    The People there have been warned to carry gauze masks or
    wet towels in case they need to cover their mouths.  The
    sailor involved in the bus accident was a Phillipino.

    Message: 75693
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Apro
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 21:01:45

            My Wife was in the truck with the younger boy Tyler.  The pot heads
    who shot at her from a friends house (some friends) were doing it for fun.
    However, they are not smiling now as criminal charges are being pressed by
    me and one other fellow that we know of.  My damage estimate by Bill Luke
    Dodge is $314.46 to fix my truck alone.  I am waiting to talk to a detective
    shortly as the case is under investigation even though in our investigation
    we now know all the names.

            This all happened on 37th Ave, just north of Bell.

            One of the parents of two of the people involved have already
    stopped over to talk to us and apologize, however we are not dropping
    criminal charges...  and neither is the other guy who got his car windows
    shot out with his wife and baby in the car.  He is REALLY upset....

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    P.S.  If they had hit my wife, I may have just gone up the street and killed
    them all.  I am quite upset myself.  I would have been wrong to do so in the
    eyes of the law, but I love my wife!

    Message: 75694
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Shooting
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 21:09:35

    "Doing it for fun" ?

    I wonder what they do when they are upset.

    Message: 75695
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Shooting
    Date: 06/12/91  Time: 21:54:26

    It's that Devil, killer weed again, raising its ugly head.  That pot will do
    it every time.

    Take a mild mannered, calm person and give him pot and you've got another
    Charles Manson on your hands.  Damn.

    And all this time I thought it was probably you or Sandy practicing quick
    draw again with loaded weapons.

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