### Apollo BBS Archive - May 14, 1991

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    Message: 75121
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie/homos
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 06:00:08

     Your concerns are understandable, Ann, since they are shared by many who
    have never been all that aware of the problem until recently. Actually,
    there is no greater percentage of the population today that are homosexual
    than there was a few years ago. With the so-called "new morality" (which is
    nothing more than old fashioned immorality with a new sugar coating), they
    are now coming out of the closet and flaunting their abomination before the
    world. We (the normal people of society) are now being subjected to marches,
    demonstrations, political lobbies and a host of other things from the queer
    community. Bottom line to that question? There really aren't "so many" of
    them, they have just gotten louder and more obnoxious.
     As to your comparison of humanity with the animal world, you are way off
    base there. In spite of some of the humorous things that have been written
    (I have just read, again, a little thing called the "Monkey's Point of
    View"), we are not animals in that sense of the word. We are a unique
    creation, made in the image and likeness of our creator, totally unlike the
    four-footed beasts of the world. We were created to name and take charge
    and control of the animals, not to lower ourselves in any way to their
    level. You cannot justify the aberrations of two humans on the basis that
    two male dogs may do the same thing. Dogs will eat excrement too. Would you?
    Just something to think about. Human homosexuality is still a matter of
    choice, and is still totally, absolutely and without question WRONG, WRONG,
    WRONG.

    Message: 75122
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie/polls
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 06:03:52

     I don'T know who the R&G asks when they take those ridiculous polls,
    either. They have never asked me, and I have been a subscriber for years. I
    haven't seen too many of those things that I agree with, either, and I sure
    don'T agree with the most recent one! That seems to be the answer to every
    problem that crops up in Arizona, though. Don't try to cure the sickness.
    Just throw more money at it ad hope it will fix itself. They have done the
    same thing with education for years, and it gets worse by the year. Now they
    are wanting to give ADOT more money to squander without fixing ADOT first.
    It figures.

    Message: 75123
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael/75108
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 06:06:16

     A wise observation, and so true!
     Who was the talk show host? You must have heard the miracle of the ages,
    right before your ears! I've never heard one of them admit to even a slight
    error of judgement, let alone that they were ever wrong about anything!

    Message: 75124
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Beau Dog
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 06:11:57

    Female homosexuality? Try Romans 1:26.
     As to the "case" that you try to make out of the Sodom and Gomorrah story,
    when you can justify rape of any kind by that story, you are really
    stretching the truth beyond credibility. Now who's out of touch with
    reality?

    Message: 75125
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on man
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 07:48:12

    I have met several homosexuals that wished they were 'straight' and this
    surprised me and made me lean towards believing they can't help what they
    are any more than we can.
    As far it it going against what the Bible says - we  all do that on
    occasion! I was always taugh that one mortal sin wasn't any worse than
    another in God's eyes! Personally I think it's an abomination to call them
    an 'abomination'! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75126
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dog on Paul
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 07:54:09

    Oh! So it was Paul (Saul) that was against homosexuality and thought it was
    an abomination er? That figures. I too think Paul had his problems. If he
    existed today, he'd be in the National Enquiror  - a story about a real fake
    occult medium that claimed they heard voices. When I first read about Paul
    and his conversion on the road, I questioned this stories validity. ANYONE
    could come along and claim the same things he did and jump on the Christian
    bandwagon. Your right - he did hate women and that was my clue that this guy
    wan't sent from God!! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75127
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley #75121
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 08:08:46

    Sorry, but I don't agree with almost all of that post. I do not think we are
    'unique' and I think we are animals!! Lets take 'unique' first ... what's
    unique about us? WE think? Yes, but that's how our species is. I don't
    figure it puts us over anything else because we do. Any animal species is
    unique - as much as we can be discribed as. There is one thing we have that
    the animals do not have and that's 'ego' ... but that is not a positive
    thing and makes us better!
    No, we wouldn't eat excretment but a dog wouldn't committe murder for gain
    either. I know we are animals and because we do think and can reason, and
    still do the things we do, we are lower than the lowest animal - we are the
    abomination of the earth if anything is! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75128
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley on polls
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 08:11:04

    Have you ever noticed that these polls never agree with you? They never do
    me. When I read them, it makes me feels like the outsider, but that isn't
    true. I'm so normal where consumer goods are concerned, it isn't funny.

    I wish just once they'd call and ask me what I am watching on TV at that
    particular time!! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75129
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff on vote
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 08:22:37

    I notice that 35 people voted in the handle vote. This happens on most every
    vote and I always wonder where these people come from? There isn't 35 people
    that post daily? See what I mean? Do we have a bunch of quiet people that
    log on everyday? What is the amount of the active members daily?
    Are there people that log on everyday and just post in the Christian sig?
    Just curious. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75130
    Author: $ Cliff Kolostow
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on 'unique'
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 09:03:34

            We are 'unique' Ann.  What other animal on this planet can do what
    we can do.  Or come close?  NONE!   We have these marvellous hands that can
    do so much.  We have this mind to reason with, the want and need to learn.
    We can communicate unlike anything else on this planet.  We have a wider
    spectrum of feelings and emotions.  We are set apart from other animals.

            In your statement you say "and still do the things we do"....
    You are not being fair, you point to a very small minority.  The MAJORITY of
    people are good and do nice things or even great things.  You almost sound
    like Rod in his negative view of everything.

            Excuse me Ann, dogs do kill dogs for gain... of territory or even a
    bone.

            Try to look at the brighter side of life...add to it, not tear it
    apart.

            As for Gays....

            Being gay is wrong, a sin, but with me not being so perfect, I am
    not going to be out to judge them... I got my own problems.  However, you
    won't find me patting them on the back, or supporting their (sic) cause.
    They need help as I need help... but what the hell, that leaves more women
    for the rest of us!

    Message: 75131
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Polls
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 09:17:51

    You too ? I always feel that I am part of an elite super-intelligent
    minority that is different from the great unwashed majority.

    Message: 75132
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 10:51:34

    The nationally-syndicated radio host was Rush Limball (sp?).  A lady called
    in response to a previous show on feminism to say that she agreed with many
    of his views but objected to the way he categorized all members of groups as
    having certain beliefs.  Apparently he had said something like "Feminists
    LOVE Ted Kennedy" which implied to her that ALL feminists love Ted Kennedy.
    She was angry because she considered herself a feminist but didn't hold many
    of the beliefs he was ascribing to ALL feminists.  He let her speak
    uninterrupted for several minutes, argued with her a little, and finally
    admitted that he DID sometimes sacrifice accuracy for brevity and said he
    would try to be more specific.  For the rest of the show (that I heard,
    anyway) he avoided blanket generalizations.

    Maybe the whole thing was staged.

    Message: 75133
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann & Cliff
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 11:02:09

    Not only will many dogs kill other dogs for territory, many dogs will kill
    cats and infants just for the hell of it.

    Message: 75134
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Freon
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 11:04:10

    Can someone recommend an automotive air conditioning shop that will do a
    good job without telling me I need unnecessary repairs?

    Message: 75135
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Being gay
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 12:16:09

     CK> "Being gay is wrong, a sin..."

    I don't see how "being" something can be a sin when people aren't
    responsible for what they *are*, only for what they *do*.  Homosexuality is
    in the head.  If there were a little switch on the side of somebody's head
    marked "gay" and "straight", and he (or she) chose to keep it switched to
    the "gay" side all the time so that all those homosexual desires were turned
    on, then they would be exercising a choice that we could feel free to
    criticize.  But the brain doesn't work that way.

    Message: 75136
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: "Free" Trade Zone
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:02:06

    Strange how history repeats itself.  From A People's History:

      The Whig party was presumably against the war in ((1846))
    Mexico, but it was not against expansion.  The Whigs wanted
    California, but preferred to do it without war.  As
    Schroeder puts it, "theirs was a commercially oriented
    expansionism designed to secure frontage on the Pacific
    without recourse to war."  Also, they were not so powerfully
    against the military that they would stop it by denying men
    and money for the operation....
      Speaking of California, the *Illinois State Register*
    asked: "Shall this garden of beauty be suffered to lie
    dormant in its wild and useless luxuriance? ... myriads of
    enterprising Americans would flock to its rich and inviting
    prairies; the hum of Anglo-American industry would be heard
    in its valleys; cities would rise upon its plains and
    sea-coast, and the resources and wealth of the nation be
    increased in an incalculable degree."  The *American Review*
    talked of Mexicans yielding to "a superior population,
    insensibly oozing into her territories, changing her
    customs, and out-living, out-trading, exterminating her
    weaker blood...."  The *New York Herald* was saying, by
    1847: "The universal Yankee nation can regenerate and
    disenthrall the people of Mexico in a few years ...

    Message: 75137
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roddy
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:28:24

    Re:  If we weren't messed up we would see that dogs and cats were too.

    I thought my cat was acting kind of funny lately.

    Message: 75138
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:30:07

    Re:  kick off the shackle of superstition and religion

    An angel told you that?  Hmmmmmm.

    Message: 75139
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rog
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:34:31

    Re:  I heard on the radio that the good folks of
    Maricopa county are willing to raise the sales tax 1/2 cent

    I read that too, but I don't believe it.  They sure didn't ask me.  I did
    read the other day that the Federal Government had spend $49 million for a
    rock-and-roll museum.  There was a whole list of such stupidity.  Would you
    like for me to upload it?

    Message: 75140
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:37:48

    Re:  But why would they want to have sex with the same sex - live a life
    together - forfeit children - risk ridicule - have a tough life all the way
    around

    "LUST" is the answer my dear.  Some people will do anything for "LUST"

    Message: 75141
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:41:49

    Re:  animals will show a tendencey towards the same sex

    Surely you jest.  I didn't know that.  I'm sure a homosexual duck would
    prove beyond any doubt the righteousness of plugging your buddy in the rear.

    I'm not sure whether I should laugh or cry?

    Message: 75142
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:43:16

    Re:  Just once, I'd like to be asked.

    Annie, are you in favor of a tax increase?

    Just thought I'd ask.

    Message: 75143
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Entertainment/Movies
    Subject: Rog
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:46:16

    Re:  empathy for his plight --- if you had a speck of basic human decency

    Paul, that Roger is very clever at name calling huh?

    Message: 75144
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Dog
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:47:59

    Re:  heterosexual rape is quite OK

    Come on Dog; you know the Bible doesn't say that.

    Message: 75145
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Dog
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:50:43

    Re:  it is about 3-2 in favor of allowing handles

    I voted against handles, but maybe I was wrong.  Maybe I should use a
    handle.

    From now on please call me Felix the Cat.

    Make that Felix Cat.

    But you can call me Cat if you like.  OK dog?

    Message: 75146
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Roddy
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:53:25

    Re:  By an act of birth I was born into this class.

    Hmmmmm.  Is that why your eyebrows look like that?

    Message: 75147
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 19:58:02

    Re:  Personally I think it's an abomination to call them
    an 'abomination'!

    God's the one who said it was an "abomination."  I just repeated it.

    It could be an abomination to call those an abomination who call others an
    abomination.  We all live in a Yellow sub you know.  Where did I hear that
    before?

    Message: 75148
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 21:33:04

      Beats me.

      We all live in a   ....,,,,________nnhn____   yellow subroutine

    Message: 75149
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 22:27:25

    "leaves more women for the rest of us"?!  Aren't you married?

    Message: 75150
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rape in the OT
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 22:38:59

    Well, when Lot offered his virgin daughters in Genesis 19, do you think that
    they *wanted* to do it with all of the men of the town?  A similar story is
    told in Judges 19, where a man offered his daughter and a concubine to be
    ravished (though only the concubine was given over).

    I suppose God changed his mind about this, too?  Or, perhaps, rape is OK?
    (males raping females, of course).  Since women are property, somewhere
    beneath cows according to the OT (and the Apostle Paul, for that matter), I
    suppose God probably still approves of it.

    Yep, Romans 1:26. The only mention of lesbianism, and then only by Paul.
    Kinda makes you wonder, don't it?  Was the Apostle Paul just making it all
    up as he went along?  "Hey, you, Romans!  Have I got a religion for you!"

    Message: 75151
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Abominations
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 22:46:44

    If you read the whole of Genesis 19 (and Judges 19), it seems that what was
    so terrible was homosexual rape by the men of the city.  They "wanted" the
    guests, but were offered women to rape in their stead.

    Message: 75152
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod/Class
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 22:58:25

       This society was founded in a quest for the political and economic
    reforms which could put an end to being born into a social class for life.
    The revolt of european merchants against the entrenched privileges of
    royalty spilled across the ocean and took root here. The old way; where you
    were born, lived, and died in a permanent class that had been assigned to
    your family under the 'divine right of kings'; was replaced by the new way;
    where the only vestiges of class are transient symbols, which anyone can
    aspire to, but none are guaranteed to hold for life.
       It is true that it is much easier to die wealthy if you were born
    wealthy to begin with, but it is not guaranteed. It is not a matter of
    social class, but of being able to get, and/or hold onto, the means of
    enjoying a certain lifestyle.
       The game isn't quite as fixed as it used to be, but it seems to be
    getting closer all the time. The royalty has been replaced as the guardians
    of privilege by the special interests who control government and the
    apparatus of government which reaches into our pockets to keep us climbing
    like mad just to try and stay in the same place. The public sector is now
    the controlling factor in the entire economy. Do you think you can get
    ahead by saving your money in the bank, like great grandpa could? That
    would work in an economy that used money backed by something of value, but
    special interests took over the monetary system in 1913 and favor
    themselves by constantly injecting more unbacked money into it.

    Message: 75153
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: 2of2
    Date: 05/14/91  Time: 23:01:43

       A favored few get to use that new money which was created out of
    nothing. You must pay income taxes on every measly penny of interest you
    earn, while monetary inflation devalues the very currency.
       The sneaky thing is, we don't see the damage in the form of higher
    prices across the board. Because so much of the new money is sent overseas
    for the purchase of real goods like oil and machines, that inflated money
    comes back in the form of specific foreign investments. The foreign
    investors know where those paper dollars came from and what their real
    value is. They trade them in for American real estate and other valuable
    investments as fast as they can, things that can't be created at a whim.
       So, our prices for food, etc. may stay fairly stable, while the price of
    good real estate jumps because it is driven by cheap money coming home to
    roost. Then add in the constantly growing weight of the public sector which
    must be fed. Every transaction, every minute of labor, every drop of fuel
    is taxed a little higher as special interests find new ways to wield power
    through government, and increase its size to handle the task.
       Now do you see why it tends to require more than one person working to
    support a family any more? What we need is not the 'perfect' communism
    rumored to exist only in Karl Marx's head. What we need is the reduction of
    government to the needed functions that only government can do, and the
    restoration of the monetary system from the evil and mutated thing it has
    become. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with money or success. It is
    wrong when they are sucked up by the political machine and redistributed to
    those who best know how to manipulate the machine's well-polished handles.

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