### Apollo BBS Archive - Feburary 12, 1990

    Message: 63267
    Author: Larry Michaels
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 02/11/90  Time: 23:57:42

    In your message no. 62977 you say:

    "I don't want us to have legal drugs - it is so untasteful to think about
    it - that we, as a nation need this sort of thing. But facts are facts and
    we can't hide in the sand."

    You say that you do not want drugs to be made legal, however you admit in
    other posts to being a drinker as well as a smoker.  You also state that
    you control your habit.

    Okay, I'll buy that but aren't you being a hypocrite in denying others the
    use of their chosen substance?  I think so.  Alcohol, by the way, is
    responsible for many more death than the worst so-called illegal drug.

    Would you please rethink your position on this issue. Or are you the only
    human that is capable of controlling their habit.

    Message: 63268
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 02:22:38

    Haven't I read that before?

    Message: 63269
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hi-Health
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 04:25:39

    Hi-Health sells lots of bogus products. One of them claims to be a natural
    allergy cure-all. The major active ingredient is the extract of the ephedra
    plant. This, of course, is also the active ingredient in Sudafed, a common
    decongestant. Hi-Health's advertising claim leads one to believe that their
    allergy product can cure allergies, when in fact it does nothing more than
    dry up your sinuses, and for a hell of a lot more money than Sudafeds.

    Message: 63270
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on rematch
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 05:39:20

     If you are suggesting that the fight was rigged, I doubt it. I don't think
    that Tyson has the talent to fake a knockout as well as he did it. Douglas
    clearly dominated the entire 10 rounds, with the exception of one good
    uppercut that floored him, and when Tyson went down for the count in the
    10th, he didn't even know what country he was in, let alone where the ring
    was. No, Ann, it was for real. It may never be repeated, but it was no
    setup.

    Message: 63271
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Larry/answer
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 09:02:32

    Re: ... "aren't you being a hypocrite in denying others the use of their
    chosen substance?"
    Where in any post of mine have I advocated denying others the use of their
    substances? You ought to read more carefully.
    Re: smoking and drinking - I believe in them also for those that want to
    partake -- but I do not compare to dangers of smoking & drinking to some
    heroin addict that would kill for his next fix! Each of our habits have a
    price - I feel the price of drugs are the highest. A person can smoke &
    drink in moderation all their lives - it would be harder to keep it within
    moderation with some drugs. I would fear for my life to experiment in taking
    a shot of heroin but would not hesitate to down a 'Boiler Maker' if I so
    desired. I might be sorry, but would never want to do it again nor sell my
    soul for the next one.
    No I do not want drugs to be legalized but can see no other way. There! I[ve
    said it again!
                                \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63272
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley/last
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 09:03:45

    I guess you've read where Tyson is going to protest the count?!
                                \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63273
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Nelson Mandela
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 15:44:03

    In case you didn't catch it, Nelson Mandela was freed yesterday.

    Message: 63274
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 16:05:42

    Re:  "we'll just have to live with each other"

    Hmmmmm.  What an open for a come back.

    Message: 63275
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 16:13:29

    Re:  "All right, Bob, give me an example of mind-gymnastics that is required
    by my belief in reality."

    Gee Roger, isn't that almost the same question I just ask you? You'r the one
    who accused me of "mind-gymnastics" in the first place, because I believe
    the Bible.  I don't mind an intelligent debate, but I don't want to play
    your game of "ring-around-the-rosy".  Either back up your accusation or shut
    up.

    Message: 63276
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Drugs and IQ
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 18:28:40

    Hi Bob. Over the years I have noticed there is absolutely no correlation
    between the intellegence of my students and the decision to try drugs.
    I have observed a correlation between self-confidence and self-image and
    that decision. I have also observed a very great correlation between those
    who are basically ignorant an any given subject and the desire to express
    opinions and argue.

    How have you been?

    Mike

    Message: 63277
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Semen-antics
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 18:36:24

    After reading the post on breaking through the lalina channels while rubbing
    my navel, I am wondering if those prone to semantic games don't have
    something else on their brains? "Fact" is a word we all get to define as
    that which supports our beliefs, it seems. Anyone out there want any facts
    to disagree with? I got a million of them! As for mind-f***ing other people,
    perhaps a few minutes of "ommmmm" while in the Lotus position would help?

    Mike

    Message: 63278
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike M.
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 20:12:40

    Well, you seem pretty quarrelsome and opinionated.  I suppose that just goes
    to prove that correlations, like "facts", are often defined and used to
    support our own emotionally needed conclusions.  Or are you willing to admit
    your basic ignorance on the subject?

    Message: 63279
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: The Secret House
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 20:27:14

    "...Margerine is made from fat.  It was first invented in response to an
    award offered by the French Emperor, Napoleon III, after the urban
    rebellions of 1848 to find a cheap source of fat for the working classes who
    could not afford butter.  Today, there's soya fat in margerine, also the fat
    you get from squished herrings, and about 20 percent of the total is beef
    fat or even nice old fashion lard -- pig's fat.  All these fats are mixed
    and melted, and if you think molten pig's fat smells bad, you should wait
    till you've had the misfortune to walk through a factory where it's being
    stirred in with boiled herring and other fats.  The whole mess is so
    repulsive, so clearly distasteful and unmarketable (it comes out colored
    grey on top of it all) that before anything else is done it has to be
    funneled into even larger deodorizing vats to try to get rid of the stink.
    What comes out of the deodorizer, while at least it can be approached
    without gagging, is still not quite the tempting substance commercial
    margerine is supposed to be.  It's grey. it's sticky, and it's far, far too
    chunky.  The fats that were temporarily boiled apart in the deodorizer can't
    restrain themselves for long, and have clotted back into large, unattractive
    lumps.  Those lumps have to go.  The grey gloop is poured into another vat,
    metal shavings are clunked in before it, then the vat is screwed shut and
    high-pressure hydrogen gas is sprayed in.  The fats are boiled and
    compressed in there, they react with the nickel and hydrogen, and when
    finally the ordeal is over and the top taken off, the lumps are gone,
    squeezed clear in all the ruckus.

    "There's more.  Beef dripping, lard, and herring fat don't cost very much,
    but if at this stage they could be diluted with something even cheaper, even
    more easy to get in quantity than pig's fat, then the cost of producing
    the margerine would drop even lower.  This extra substance is waiting in
    another vat in the factory, right next to the one where the de-lumping took
    place.  It's milk -- of a sort.  By government regulations there are two
    main grades of milk in most countries: Grade A, which is fresh, checked and
    suitable for drinking; and a lesser Grade B, which ordinary consumers don't
    usually see, but which being slightly  older, or having a bit more bacteria
    in it that is best, is used for consensed milk, commercial cakes, and
    baby-milk mixtures.  The milk that's waiting to be mixed with the fat in the
    margerine factory is the second kind, or even one grade below that.  It's
    not fresh; in fact it's going sour.  Even though it's already been
    pasteurized once, the factory engineers have to give it another heat
    treatment to get some of the worst stuff off.  After that, it's strained.
    filtered, and poured in with the waiting fat.  This presents a problem.  Oil
    and water don't mix, and the lard and fish fat coming in through one spout
    are highly oily, while the sour milk pouring in from the other spout is
    about 88 percent water.  To ensure a match, other substances have to be
    sprayed into the vat where they're heading.  Soap like emulsifiers are
    squeezed in to foam around each drop of sour milk and so keep it from
    joining up with the other milky water in the vat.

    "Then lots of starch is poured in to make the combined mix even more gooey,
    and to see that things don't slip back.  It seems it would take a genius to
    make a palatable product out of this soapy and starch filled mixture of grey
    sour milk and animal fat.  Luckily, unsung geniuses aplenty labor in these
    margerine factories.  First some color is added, something to cover over the
    vile grey.  Normal yellow dyes wouldn't work, because the grey is so deep
    that it would keep on poking through.  Extra-strong dyes based on
    sulfur-refined coal tars are used instead.  Then a stifling strong flavorer
    is mixed in to make it taste like something other than the miscellaneous
    lard, other fats, and old milk it is.  Then vitamins -- because all this
    processing has made it nutritiously almost valueless.  The result of all
    these labors is then compressed, cooled, scraped, cut into long blocks, cut
    into smaller blocks, and finally dropped into plastic tubs.
    There's something else.  Back at the beginning a little sunflower oil is
    sometimes mixed in.  That's not because it's especially needed, and usually
    not because there's enough to make any difference, but rather so the
    designers can have something suggestive of sun-kissed meadows and open
    spaces to print on the cover.  Even the French Academy of Sciences that
    sponsored the original stuff had their doubts.  The award for the first
    margerine was granted in 1869, but eleven years later the Academy decreed
    that it couldn't be used in government cafeterias: it was, they said, too
    revolting on the Palate."

    Message: 63282
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last/margarine
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 20:58:52

    Sheesh.  I'm glad I decided to use butter starting about 11 years ago.  Even
    then, I use it mostly for cooking (vegetables, bread, etc., usually go
    unbuttered).

    Message: 63283
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: bob/games
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 21:50:00

    If you look at your previous post you claim you can demonstrate that
    I use "mind gymnastics" and I'm calling you on it. As far as your
    mind-gymnastics, shall we start with the computed age of the earth
    according to the Bible. Do you believe that the earth and universe
    is approximately 6-10 thousand years of age ?

    Message: 63284
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Butter!
    Date: 02/12/90  Time: 22:52:53

            No wonder I like butter and not margarine!

    Sandy on the other hand...loves the stuff!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63285
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger/Allen Organ
    Date: 02/13/90  Time: 00:10:44

    Did you ask Allen first? And what is Allen going to do then? Take estrogen?

    Message: 63286
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 63188/Cliff
    Date: 02/13/90  Time: 00:11:37

    Ah, yer just prejudiced.

    (Haw haw haw)

    Message: 63287
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Ann/Andy Rooney
    Date: 02/13/90  Time: 00:13:33

    The person who did the article admitted he did not have a tape recording of
    the supposed telephone conversation with Rooney. I thought any paper trying
    to make itself look respectable wouldn't run a story without facts to back
    it up.

    Message: 63288
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/Question?
    Date: 02/13/90  Time: 00:16:47

    Why is it that when you see a youth wearing a BLACK POWER T-shirt, it is an
    outpouring of racial pride, but when you see a youth wearing a WHITE POWER
    T-shirt, it is an outpouring of imagined racial superiority? There seems to
    be an entirely different school of thought between these two entities. The
    area that I work at has a high population of neo-Nazi skinheads. They
    frequent the AlphaGraphics print shop next door to us to xerox their hate-
    filled propoganda.

    Message: 63289
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Adkins
    Date: 02/13/90  Time: 01:29:53

    Ummm, tasty!  Almost makes me want to try lard on my bread.  More pure, I
    suppose...

    Message: 63290
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Middleton
    Date: 02/13/90  Time: 02:00:35

         What is this supposed "great correlation" between those who are
    ignorant and those who show a desire to express opinions and argue?

    Message: 63291
    Author: Larry Michaels  Note:  This is me.
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff Beck/Enviro
    Date: 02/13/90  Time: 02:49:03

    Environment does play a role in how an individual will behave.  It has been
    noted that a child from a loving home fares much better in later life than
    one who had been abused.

    Note that I said loving home and not 'good home'.  A good home is thought
    by some to mean financially secure.  Being brought up in a home where there
    are no financial problems is nice but as for inner development there should
    be affection and support.

    A child who is constantly berated, told that they are no-good and will
    never amount to anything worthwhile can suffer severe damage to their
    psyche. Also the parents life styles (assuming that parents are not
    divorced) plays a key role for the child.  If they are heavy drinkers or
    promote the idea that stealing or breaking the law is the norm then the
    unformatted mind of the child will usually develop in this manner.

    In some cases there is intervention and a child is saved.  Help can come
    from a stable father or mother figure that the child knows.

    From what I have read about Manson's early childhood tells me that he was
    shifted from pillar to post during his formative years.

    In my opinion drugs were not the prime cause of the crimes that he was
    involved in.  Drugs do not put ideas into ones head.  They cannot talk.

    Take hypnosis for example.  A subject cannot be made to do something that
    they would not normally do.  Neither can drugs make the user act this way or
    that.  Alcohol is another good example.  Yes, inhibitions are removed but a
    drunk will not go out and rob a store unless there was already something in
    their makeup that would prompt them to do so.

    I cannot find where to place blame for a criminal act.  Sorry, but I see
    the general population, as a whole, as guilty.  We are just in that stage of
    evolution where we are still fairly stupid animals.

    Neither do I blame Hilter as an individual.  Instead I see the times and
    events of that period in world history.  There are many more factors to be
    taken into account than just the acts of a lone individual.  The man
    deserves the same amount of respect as any other person when boiled down.

    I see it like the earth is one whole sum (of another sum) and there are
    cancer cells here and there.  The body has sores on it in various places
    but the body is still a whole.

    Our entire population of this planet at present, is out of tune.  There
    are many dis-harmonious chords yet to be put into place.  Environment gives
    some a much higher step to start out from than others.  When humans reach a
    higher stage of development from the one we are currently in then no
    so-called system of government will be needed. -later