### Apollo BBS Archive - January 1, 1989

    Caller # 133047 (39 today)
    It is now 01/01/89  18:20:02
    Last on @ 12/28/88  20:55:42
    Last message read was  (56116)
    Message range is (56039-56296)
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    $ Rod        Williams   18:20:00 (1200)
      Michael    Thoman     18:01:44 (1200)
    $ Apro       Poet       17:27:39 (1200)
    $ Apro       Poet       17:10:12 (1200)
      Dan        Hampton    16:23:08 (2400)
    $ James      Taranto    16:08:06 (1200)
      Joe        Abrams     15:57:22 (1200)
      Chris      Neal       15:46:59 (2400)
    $ Bob        Thornburg  15:30:54 (2400)
      Steve      Keller     15:02:40 (2400)
    $ Jim        Lippard    14:50:15 (1200)
    $ Charles    Pradelt    14:41:37 (2400)
    $ Steven     Carls      13:53:36 (1200)
    $ Michael    James      13:21:42 (1200)
      Dustin     Lee        12:31:52 (1200)
      Michael    Benedict   12:24:01 (1200)
    $ Jim        Lippard    12:16:33 (1200)
    $ Jim        Lippard    11:48:49 (1200)
    $ Dean       McCarron   11:34:41 (2400)
      David      Chandler   11:02:52 ( 300)
    $ Beauregard Dog        10:54:17 (2400)
    $ James      Taranto    10:45:30 (1200)
      Walt       Peters     10:42:56 (1200)
      Walt       Peters     10:11:13 (1200)
    $ Ann        Oudin      09:19:47 (1200)
    $ Mike       Carter     08:17:38 (1200)
    $ Mike       Carter     07:36:22 (1200)
    $ Paul       Savage     05:15:04 (1200)
    $ Joe        Bottomlee  04:29:56 (1200)
    $ Nick       Ianuzzi    03:54:24 (1200)
      Chris      Neal       03:39:40 (2400)
    $ Pat        Stoddard   02:16:50 (1200)
    $ Pat        Stoddard   01:41:05 (1200)
    $ Pat        Stoddard   01:40:28 (1200)
      Angie      Shockley   01:04:14 ( 300)
    $ Pat        Stoddard   00:59:43 (1200)
    $ Beauregard Dog        00:50:42 (2400)
    $ Steven     Carls      00:27:09 (1200)
    $ James      Hawley     00:13:34 (2400)

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 5026
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Movie
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 07:24:40

    Has anyone seen 'Twins' yet? Any good? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 5027
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean/5024
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 07:44:15

    Yes, future designs. In other words, the future designs, removing the
    religious mottos (and hopefully those suspect symbols on the back of the ONE
    as well?) will not cost anything (well, I'm sure the designer wants to get
    paid, and the Government doesn't give Green Stamps) UNTIL they are
    implemented. Then, the wheels of spending go into action. New plates (LOTS
    of them), new inks, new paper, possibly new presses. Those WILL cost. And
    cost BUCKS.

    Message: 5028
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Last....
    Subject: Money, money, money
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 11:43:58

       The govenment is planning a redesign of the paper currency in the near
    future, being that the current designs are relatively easy to counterfeit.
    Any changes to the current design could be made then without incurring any
    extra cost.
       As I said before, my main objection to the slogan "In God We Trust" is
    that it's inaccurate.  Changing it to "In God Most Of Us Trust" or "In God
    Almost All Of Us Trust" would be acceptable to me.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 5029
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Believe it or not!
    Subject: Easter
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 11:45:11

       Have any of you Christians ever wondered why the date Easter falls on
    depends on the phase of the moon?  I can't find that in my Bible.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 5031
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: IGWT
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:12:56

    Jack Kemp would like to change it to "In Gold We Trust."  I'm not to sure I
    like a fiat currency, either.

    Message: 5032
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Taranto / IGWT
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:36:52

    "How much will it save?"

    Not a soul!
                            -Mike

    Message: 5033
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 21:22:37

      It wouldn't save any money, and I never said that it would. I mentioned
    the fact that it wouldn't cost anything because currency is redesigned
    occasionally anyway and there would be no need to replace existing currency
    ahead of schedule. In spite of what Daryl would tell you, a currency
    designer doesn't donate his work for free just because "In God We Trust" is
    included in the design.
      It might not save any money for the government to stop many of its
    questionable policies, but that hardly overrides all other principles
    involved.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 5034
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/Movie
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 21:24:52

      If you like Arnold and/or Danny you will probably like the movie. Its a
    little different role for Arnold, as he doesn't kill anybody.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 5035
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hathaway
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 21:34:46

    So far no one has presented any evidence that any principle is involved in
    the objection to "In God We Trust" appearing on currency.

    Message: 5036
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean/No cost?
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 22:09:28

            I would not bet on it.... If the U.S. Government just dropped off
    the "In God We Trust", they would be taken to court by people wanting it to
    remain....  I fear it is a no win situation, as in "Your damned if you do,
    and damned if you don't".

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 5037
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 23:12:26

    While it may not be the case that leaving the slogan on is unconstitutional,
    taking it off certainly isn't.  I can't imagine on what grounds someone
    would file suit to keep it on.
       But then again, people have filed lawsuits against Satan.

    Message: 5038
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean/Twins
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 07:39:32

    You mean Arnie doesn't go to some remote island and single handed wipe out
    1000 bad guys? You mean there are no strapping on of weapons and painting
    his face? Hmmm ... might not be worth going to see after all. Ha - only
    joking. Arnie and Danny are good in most of the roles they've played so far.
    So I guess I chance it. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 5039
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Easter Date
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 09:53:04

    Easter was originally intended to coincide with the date of Passover, but
    since the Hebrew calendar and the regular calendar don't have the same
    number of days per year, it didn't take them long to get out of synch.
    Passover is calculated by a lunar calendar of 28 days.

                                                       ****  Gary   ****

    Message: 5040
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/Twins
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 13:12:17

      This time Arnold comes FROM a remote island and single handedly reforms
    his delinquent brother and reunites his family. I liked all his action
    movies as well as anyone, and I like this one too.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 5041
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Taranto
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 13:22:57

      It will not cost more to omit religious mottos from future currency
    designs. The possibility of spurious lawsuits is not a real consideration,
    and the fact that it may not save any money does not alter the fact that it
    will not cost more money.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 5042
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Lippard / 5037
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 23:34:30

    While it may not be the case that leaving the slogan on is unconstitutional,
    taking it off certainly isn't. I can't imagine on what grounds someone
    would file suit to keep it on.
       But then again, people have filed lawsuits against Satan.

    -But then again, people file lawsuits just because they think differently
    than others and want the law to prove them right. Proof to people
    like yourself is something that is written on paper by someone who claims
    to have validity or backing. Proof indeed.
    Leaving the slogan ON certianly isn't unconstitutional. Trying to remove it
    is about as usefull as tits on a wild boar. Then again, people have
    wasted years of their life doing nothing but wasting theirs and others' time
    by attempting to prove to themselves that God doesn't exist.
    Shortsightedness is not only a physical but a physiological condition as
    well.... and it can be cured.

                            -Mike

    Message: 5043
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 00:56:23

    proof is something that is written on paper by someone who claims to have
    validity or backing?  Excuse me, but that seems to be YOUR definition of
    proof - checked out the Bible lately?

    As to the rest of your message, I'm sorry I even replied to the first part.

    Message: 5044
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 08:29:39

    Proof relies upon many other things than just the elements of logic or
    physical manifestation. I tie proof into fact. Proof needs to be an absolute
    based on fact. Although not singularily defineable, but almost always
    proof is in essence an acumulation of facts and cannot be ever tied
    to just a few events as it by nature should be able to be traced back.
    That's perhaps the biggest reason why so many of us get really screwed
    at one time or another or even multiple times. Its amazing what man will do
    to man. When you start to require proof for yourself or others for anything,
    then you will understand the difference between the pure pursuit of truth
    and the self-gratifying, self righteous pursuit of "justification".
    But some really miss it.
    SInce the tone of your last message suggests that you only use People and
    paper, then my question to people like yourself and Jim Lippard is;
    Prove Love.
    Prove it the way you have set your own standards for proof. I will, in this
    case play the Jim-Lippard devils advocate and will utterly shoot down
    silly emotional content, flippant remarks or doses of "I feel it".

    Perhaps when you attempt to prove LOVE exists with this yardstick you could
    begin to understand how God is real.

                            -Mike

    Message: 5045
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: The Game & Parade
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:49:57

    What the heck is going on? I never, in all my years remember getting up on
    New Years day and not seeing the Rose Parade??!! Or later, watching the
    Rosebowl game. They've got all the damn games lumped together tomorrow -
    even the Fiesta Bowl. If you don't have a VCR or at least 2 TVs you'll miss
    one of the good games. Who decided this? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 5046
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 10:53:14

    I imagine the games were moved to accommodate the NFL playoffs today.

    Message: 5047
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 12:10:36

    I am not a constructivist, so I don't see proof as simply that which can be
    written down on paper.  While empirical facts are one means of "proof" (in a
    loose, non-logical/mathematical sense of the word), they are not the only
    means.  A priori philosophical considerations can also play a role.  (In
    fact, the strongest sorts of proofs, in logic and mathematics, do not
    involve empirical facts at all.)  I don't happen to think there are any
    "proofs" in the strong sense regarding the existence of God, but believe the
    weight of the evidence to be in favor of atheism.  (Interestingly, arguments
    for the existence of God, other than design arguments, tend to ignore
    empirical facts, while arguments against the existence of God such as the
    problem of evil rely heavily upon them.)
       Regarding the perennial challenge to prove the existence of love:  that
    can be done rather easily in various ways--behavioristically,
    neurochemically, and experientially--to anyone's satisfaction.  All the
    theist can produce for the existence of God is a claimed experiential
    "proof", which when analyzed from the other two standpoints I just mentioned
    becomes rather insubstantial, to say the least.

       You do have a good point regarding wasting my time, though.  I frequently
    feel a twinge of guilt when replying to your messages--there are so many
    other better things I could be doing, like engaging in a battle of wits with
    kindergarteners.

    Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 2012
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: art
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 00:57:00

         I will be showing a recently completed series of xerographic collages
    at a local club.  The subject of this work is murder.
         The show is entitled "Dichotomy of Murder", and also features oil
    paintings by John W. Gacy.
         Opening/New Year's Eve blowout is set for Dec. 31 (obviously) and
    features a number of local bands - 24 Hour World & Godwads to name two.
         Only $5, so leave e-mail for
    details.  Have a nice day.

    Message: 2014
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Sandy - responses
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 05:12:10

    Yeah -- if a woman sleeps around she's labeled a whore, slut, cheap - if a
    man does is - he's sowing his wild oats or being a stud. In fact, take the
    word 'stud' - there is no word like it to discribe a woman. That also
    applies to 'Macho' too. It's early - about 5:AM - so I can't think right
    now, but I know there's a lot of stuff like that. Jeannie? Do you have any?
    Lets hear it from the woman on this subject and Beau Dog - stick around and
    hear it and make comments! - if you dare! Ha ha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2015
    Author: $ Jeannie Innajug
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: discrimination
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 07:29:25

    Hey..........Annie.......

    I spend too much time actually being discriminated against to worry about
    the little verbal slurs in the language.  If a person feels that women are
    second class citizens then there seems little one can do about it.  Even
    proving that you can do the job doesn't work, because they can always find
    excuses for why a woman could do so well.

    You're right, I could write a book, but probably won't.  I actually *like*
    guys in spite of all the macho slurs they sling.  Guess that shows I'm just
    a poor, weak, woman!

    See Y'aa..............

    Jeannie

    Message: 2016
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Kontest
    Subject: Santa!
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 09:38:03

              ~(;-0>>>>      A Winking Santa.... by Cliff.

            All Kontest drawings must be in by today (12/21/88)....

                    So far...Cliff is in the lead!

    Ho Ho ho....  Merry Christmas Apollo Users....

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 2017
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 12:41:53

    No, the final day is 12-24-88.  Don't try to pull one over on poor little
    Ann.

    Message: 2018
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: SANTA IT'S NOT!
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 15:49:18

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
    @@@@@@@@@@@@.............@@@@@@@@@@@@
    @@@@@@@@@.....@@@@@@@@@.....@@@@@@@@@
    @@@@@@@....@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@....@@@@@@@
    @@@@@.....@@@@...@@@@@@@@@@.....@@@@@
    @@@@...@....@@...@@@@@@@@@@@@@...@@@@
    @@@...@@@@.......@@@@@@@@@@@@@@...@@@
    @@...@@@@@@@.....@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@...@@
    @...@@@@@@@@@@....@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@...@     NOEL!
    @...@@@@@@@@@@......@@@@@@@@@@@@@...@
    @@...@@@@@@@@@...@....@@@@@@@@@@...@@
    @@@...@@@@@@@@...@@@....@@@@@@@...@@@
    @@@@...@@@@@@@...@@@@@....@@@@...@@@@
    @@@@@....@@@@@.........@...@....@@@@@
    @@@@@@....@@@@.........@@......@@@@@@
    @@@@@@@.....@@@@@@@@@@@@@.....@@@@@@@
    @@@@@@@@@@.................@@@@@@@@@@
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    Message: 2019
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 23:12:18

            Cliff! You Jerk!
    You not giv'n me 'nuf time ta creeate sumthun ............

            What kind of joy are going to get from this victory?

            The next time we have a car race I will inform you from the finish
    line.

            Remember the Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do
    unto you.

                    Repented yet? ..........

    Message: 2020
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: Santa
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 01:11:37

                   /    \
                  /  /   \
                 / _/     \
                / /        \
               ***          |
              *****         |
               ***          |
               @@@@@@@@@@@@@@
              @@@@@@@@@@ @@@@@
              @@@@@@@@@   @@@@
              @@            @@
              @  ^^^    ^^^  @
              | ^          ^ |
              |  /O      O\  |
              | /    /       |
              |/    /       \|
              @@   /_       @@
              @@            @@
              @@   @@@@@    @@
              @@@@@     @@@@@@
              @@@@  \_/   @@@@
               @@@        @@@
                @@@@@@@@@@@@
                 @@@@@@@@@@

    Message: 2021
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: PS:
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 01:12:43

    *MY* Santa offers to bring good little Sandy her own ultraTHANG for
    Christmas if she gets Cliff to choose the RIGHT Santa. (Not that I'm trying
    to fix anything.)

    Message: 2022
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff - you rat!
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 06:58:11

    How can you do such a thing as to have a last minute Santa Kontest? I hope
    Daryl sends Sandy her very own THANG - that's what you deserve!
    -=*) ANN the Offended (*=-

    Message: 2023
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last few/Santa
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 09:53:45

            It was announced weeks ago there would be a Santa Kontest...
    Sorry Daryl, your post was dated the 22nd....  the kontest was over at
    midnight the 21st...  ha ha ha ha   Ho ho ho ho ho

            Well, Sandy has me convinced I should give you guys an extension.
    But your drawing must be under the  category!

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 2024
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Music
    Subject: music
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 11:26:47

    CHRISTMAS IN BIZARRO LAND
    (Lyrics By Daryl Westfall)
    (Performed By Happy Bob & The Dorks)

    It's Christmas
    In Bizarro Land
    Little Bobby
    Ain't gettin' nothin'
    Little Bobby
    Was a bad little boy
    So they're cutting his hands off
    To give to science
    IT'S A BIZARRO LAND CHRISTMAS!
    IT'S A BIZARRO LAND CHRISTMAS!
    SANTA'S RIDING A FROG!
    DAD IS EATING FLIES AND SMOKING
    YULE LOGS!
    Little Bobby
    Is so happy
    In Bizarro Land
    Christmas is
    BLEAK! SAD! AWFUL! MISERABLE! TERRIBLE!
    HE AIN'T GETTIN' NOTHIN! AND HE'S HAPPY!
    Bizarro land Christmas
    Is so sad
    Little Bobby
    KILLED HIS DAD!
    MERRY CHRISTMAS FROM BIZARRO LAND!

    (c)1988 Applause Music/Electronic Publ., Ltd. All Rights Reserved

    This is available on a cassette single to anyone who is interested.

    Message: 2026
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Technicalities
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 11:30:19

    There's no way that I can capture my file and reupload it under
    ontest.

    Forget it. Merry Bizarro Christmas.

    Message: 2027
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Kontest
    Subject: Santa
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 12:22:19

                                      ___
                                     /    \             /------------\
                                    /      \           |  NORTH POLE  |
                                   /      l\\           \------------/
                                  /       l \\               l /l
                                 /        l  ()              l/ l
                                /          \                 l /l
                              ****************               l/ l
                       __    ******************              l /l
           _   _   _  / /      /   ^     ^  \                l/ l
       l--|_|-| |-| |----l    l   (o)   (o)  l               l /l
       l   v  |_| |_|    l    \       _\     /             __l/ l__
       l       v   v     l     **************
       l   List of GOOD  l     *****\___/****
       l      BBSer's    l      ************
       l                 l       **********
       l Sandy SySop     l        ********
       l Apollo SySop    l         *****
       l Travis Sysop    l
       l                 l
        ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

    Message: 2028
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Music
    Subject: Song
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 23:30:10

    I'd like a copy.

    Message: 2029
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Sandy - your santa
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 07:22:34

    Bravo! Very good.
    Cliff: it's only fair you let Daryl's santa in the Kontest. Where's you
    Christmas spirit fellow? Bah - Humbug! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2030
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Kontest
    Subject: My entry
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 08:27:32

                                              ___
                                             (###)
                                             /  /
                                           __\  \_
                                          /       \
                          \\             ###########
                          \\ \/         @@@***  ***@@@
                           ####\       @@@ (o)  (o) @@@
                            \   \       @@    l_    @@
                             \   \     @@@@@\___/@@@@@
                              \   \___@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@___
            Merry              \       @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@    \
          Christmas             \       @@@@@@@@@@@@@      \
          to all of              \        @@@@@@@@@         \
          my Apollo                \         ll         \    \
          friends                   /        ll   ____\/_\__  \
                                   (         ll   l        l  /
         Love you                  (         ll   l APOLLO l /
                                    (________ll___l________l##
       -=*) ANN (*=-                 l     l -  l     \\\__/
                           __________l_____l____l_______l_________
                           l_____l______l_________l_______l_______l
                           l___l_____l_____l_____l_____l_____l____l
                           l______l______l____l_____l_____l____l__l

    Message: 2031
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Review/Critique
    Subject: Ann/Santa
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 13:47:25

            Wonder if I would be smiling if I was stuck in a chimney ....

    Message: 2032
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Sandy/last
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 08:26:53

    He wasn't stuck! I made the chimney wide so he wouldn't be. -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. When is Cliff gonna judge these drawings and what's the prize? I'll
    take Nick for my prize!

    Message: 2033
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 02:01:16

    You may have me, but you'll have to beat me first.

    (With your car, Ann!)

    Message: 2034
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Nick/last
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 09:49:02

    Whew! You had me scared there for a minute thinking I'd have to beat you
    litterly! I'd lose of course - but the auto's are another thing. By the way
    - MY Zoltan the Corvette got two Christmas presants for his very own - a Thi
    (sp) good luck charm to hang off the mirror and a brand new tire from
    Goodyear. What did your little auto get? - a complete over haul? Hahahaha.
                             -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2035
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 02:27:26

    My little econobox is getting a Gale Banks exhaust system. If you only want
    to be slightly embarrassed, you should race me before I install it.

    Message: 2036
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 02:08:33

    You know that Ann will never race you.  I doubt that she could handle her
    car at speeds over 100mph.  I know that Firebird used to allow you to use
    their track (for a fee) for drag races of this type.

    Message: 2037
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: James - last
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 07:19:17

    Yeah - your right. I would not race him - but I would let someone else drive
    like my husband, that has no fear of man nor beast - or high speeds. I, only
    once had the car over a hundred and very briefly. I am afraid of speed and
    the law. I have NEVER had a ticket of any kind in my life and will continue
    to keep that record if at all possible. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2038
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Ann/ticket
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 11:48:58

            Knock on wood, Ann ........
            You will, for sure, get a ticket now!

                    (sinister laugh .....)

    Message: 2039
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Sandy/ticket
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 07:18:54

    Yes, your probably right - I will get one now. If a cop did stop me, I'd get
    out of the car pleading and begging! I read one time that it does help to
    ask the policeman not to ticket you - of course, that doesn't mean if you
    were going 80 in a 25 mile an hour zone or you hit a kid on a bike and left
    him for dead! Or you have this huge, Red THANG stuck in the trunk and it
    blocks all rear vision! Hahahahaha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    *=* Computer Hacker SIG Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 21
    Author: $ Chris Neal
    Category: Bit Bucket Talk
    Subject: The person who...
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 23:55:04

    The person who has the helicopter (or airplane) game that you play over the
    modem (Gunship?) please speak up again... I am very interested in playing,
    although I do not have the game..

    I just got F-19 Stealth Fighter by Micro-Pros.  It is very good.  There are
    4 different missions, it has this big keyboard overlay that gives all the
    functions of each key...  it is great!

    ----------=============*******>CHRIS<*******=============------114/18.8

    Message: 22
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Bit Bucket Talk
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 14:30:50

    Rod has Flight Simulator which can be played over the modem.

    Message: 23
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: ST & Atari
    Subject: Midi
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 14:17:29

    DOes anyone know of a good Music/Midi program.  I just got a electronic
    keyboard for Christmas and I could use a good program to use it to its
    fullest capacity.  I would appreciate any comments or reviews.
     " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls

    Message: 24
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Hardware Not Listed
    Subject: SCanner Owners...
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 16:18:23

    I have a *very* comprehensive list of frequencies in use around the
    valley. Not just numbers but Fcc I.D.'s, primary use, and channel number
    (if applicable).
    Covers 25MHZ to 1.3GHZ   Many frequencies totally unlisted and can't
    be found by asking the FCC for them.

    $4.00 / hard copy  440+ frequencies
                                                    -Mike

    Message: 25
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: IBM & Clones
    Subject: "THEXDER" owners
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 16:22:14

    Anyone want a cheat sheet?
    I've been poking around in the code and found a few things that
    will allow you to "survive" anything while playing.

                    -Mike

    Message: 26
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Hardware Not Listed
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 22:47:27

    How recent is the update? My father would probably be interested.

    Message: 27
    Author: $ Joe Bottomlee
    Category: Hardware Not Listed
    Subject: Scanners/Mike
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 00:19:38

    Mike you might be interested in contacting Jerry Schumacher on the ACCESS
    BBS (247-7016). He has published a book (about 1 1/2 inches thick with
    scanner listings. I think it covers the whole state and has a wealth of
    information.

                                   <<< Joe >>>

    Message: 28
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: ST & Atari
    Subject: Steve
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 02:11:56

    I have a Casio MT-240 that I use a little.  I generally use Music Studio,
    but it's certainly not the best.  (Almost the worst, actually.)  I would try
    logging on to KBBS 257-0596 and leaving mail to the sysop.  He's a
    professional musician, and used his 520 a great deal for MIDI.  His name is
    Ed Hirt.

    Message: 29
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: ST & Atari
    Subject: MIDI
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 03:56:59

    Pick up a copy of "Electronic Musician" magazine at Tower Records. You'll
    find a lot of ads for MIDI software.

    Message: 31
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Hardware Not Listed
    Subject: Joe
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:40:00

    O.k, I'll do that. I'd like to see what he has and doesn't have.

                    -Mike

    Message: 32
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Hardware Not Listed
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:42:42

    My last update to it was 3 nights ago.

    I still need to revise some areas. Some of the info listed needs to
    be condensed because there are a few MULTIPLE use frequencies and
    those that are inter-agency useage. ...and to take out personal notes
    about stuff others really don't need to know about nearby stations.
    (Sinister grin)

    You'd be amazed at what people say on CORDLESS telephones!!!!!

                            -Mike
    (HEHEHE)

    Message: 33
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Bit Bucket Talk
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 19:17:51

    Ok, you've got me interested.  Where do I send my envelope?

    *=* The outer COSmos Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 2472
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Sandy/last
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 05:17:45

    Cliff put me in there all alone and that was hell - he should have waited
    until he put Mike and David in there and that wouldn't have been so bad -
    not bad at all! Heh heh heh. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2473
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question ?
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 05:19:53

    Cliffy - how can I move a message I put on the Art sig. which would be
    better on this sig. because of it's content? I thought I was in this sig.
    when I posted it! Sorry -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. It was the one about the difference between men and women.

    Message: 2474
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Last/Ann
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 08:09:12

            Ann, Just catch the post you want to move in your buffer... or
    save it to disk as selected text if you are using FIRST CHOICE.  (Remember
    to give it the extention of '.ASC' for ASCII)  Then send or upload it to
    this SIG.   After you are done.... ap old post.

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 2475
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: $#!+
    Subject: She's Back
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 13:28:38

    And Here is Annie BACK.
                        :-) Ralph (-:

    Message: 2476
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Thoughts For The Day
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 17:55:26

    Fuck.

    Message: 2477
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 18:42:46

    Off?

    Message: 2478
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Thoughts for the day
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 19:06:08

            Life's a bitch ....... then you die.

    Message: 2479
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Sandy/last
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 07:24:32

    I've heard that expression/saying before and the more I read it, the more I
    think it just might be the truth. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2480
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: David
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 08:46:59

    No, up!

    Message: 2481
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Choose Your Choice
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 09:24:33

    [A] ...off
    [B] ...it all
    [C] ...'n A!
    [D] ...a duck
    [E] ...it
    [F] ...you
    [G] mother...er
    [H] take a flying...at the moon
    [I] all of the above

    Message: 2482
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Re-BuTTal
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 17:47:04

    You forgot...

    [J] ...me please
    [K] ...me sideways
    [L] ...truck
    [M] ...a buck then a cow and go and tell mommie just how.
    [N] ...her, I did.

    Just to list a few
                            -Mike

    Message: 2483
    Author: $ Pat Stoddard
    Category: Jokes & Ha Ha's
    Subject: Legal joke (1 of 3)
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 23:04:37

    One evening after attending the theater, two gentlemen were
    walking down the avenue when they observed a rather well
    dressed and attractive lady walking just ahead of them.  One
    of the two turned to the other and remarked, "I'd give $50
    to spend the night with that woman."  To their surprise, the
    young woman overheard the remark and turning around, she
    said, "I'll take you up on that."  She had a neat appearance
    and a pleasant voice, so after bidding his companion
    goodnight the man accompanied the lady to her apartment
    where they immediately went to bed.     The following
    morning the man presented her with $25, and prepared to
    leave.  She demanded the rest of the money stating, "if you
    don't give me the other $25, I'll sue you for it!"  He
    laughed saying, "I'd like to see you get it on those
    grounds."     The next day he was surprised when he received
    a summons ordering his presence in court as a defendent in a
    lawsuit.  He hurried off to his lawyer and explained the
    details of the case.  His lawyer said,  "She can't possibly
    get a judgment against you on such grounds, but it will be
    interesting to see how her case is presented.     After the
    usual preliminaries the lady's lawyer addressed the court as
    follows:     Your Honor, my client, this lady here, is the
    owner of a piece of property, a garden spot surrounded by a
    profuse growth of shrubbery, which property she agreed to
    rent to the defendant for a specified length of time for the
    sum of $50.  The defendant took possession of the property,
    used it extensively for the purpose for which it was rented,
    but upon evacuating the premises he paid only $25, one half
    the amount agreed upon.  The rent was not excessive since it
    is restricted property and we ask judgment be granted
    against the defendant to assure payment of the balance due.
    The defendants lawyer was impressed and amused at the way
    his opponent had presented the case.  His defense,
    therefore, was somewhat altered from the way he originally
    planned to present it.     "Your Honor, my client agreed
    that the young lady has a fine piece of property, that he
    did tend it for a time, and a degree of pleasure was derived
    from the transaction.  However, my client found a well on
    the property, around which he placed his own stones, sunk a
    shaft and erected a pump, all labor performed personally by
    him.  We claim the improvements to the property were
    sufficient to afface the unpaid amount, and the plaintiff
    was adequately compensated for rental of said property.  We
    therefore, ask that judgment not be granted."The young
    lady's lawyers' comeback was this:     "Your Honor, my
    client agrees that the defendant did find a well on her
    property and that he did make improvents such as my opponent
    described.  However, had the defendant not known the well
    existed, he would never have rented the property.  Also upon
    evacuating the premise the defendant removed the stones,
    pulled out the shaft and took the pump with him.  In doing
    so, he not only dragged his equipment through the shrubbery,
    but left the hole much larger than it was prior to his
    occupancy, making it easily accessable to little children.
    We therefore, ask that judgment be granted. AND SHE GOT IT!

    Message: 2486
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Pat/your joke
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 09:51:43

    Now that was a very good joke and it had class too. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2487
    Author: $ Chris Neal
    Category: Jokes & Ha Ha's
    Subject: Pats last
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 10:08:56

    Keep 'em coming!!!

    ----------=============*******>CHRIS<*******=============------114/18.8

    Message: 2488
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Jokes & Ha Ha's
    Subject: Pat's Last
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 15:37:11

    Couldn't have told it better myself.
         Apro Poet

    Message: 2489
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 16:16:08

    Couldn't have told it better myself.
         James Taranto

    Message: 2490
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: JT
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 11:17:51

    Does JT ever get an idea on his own?
                    !!!! Shoot Them All Ralph !!!!!

    Message: 2491
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 15:12:30

    Gosh, you have a quick mind.
    Think about JT's joke for a while, and maybe you'll understand it.
    Keep in mind that he was copying one of Apro's messages.

    Message: 2492
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 17:30:12

    Aha!  Now I get it!

    Message: 2493
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Me
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 07:22:41

    Just checking to see if this sig. is still here. I don't think a thing has
    been written here for over a week. What? No one wants to insult anybody? Has
    everyone made a New Years resolution to be nice? Ugh! What a thought.
                             -=*) Annie the AssP (*=-

    Message: 2494
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 19:21:33

    Oh, for crying out loud, shut the heck up.

    Message: 2495
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Hey
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 21:35:26

    What are you doing for Jesus, you punks?

    Message: 2496
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Toddy
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 07:42:00

    Ah! That's better. A good insult! -=*) Annie the AssP (*=-

    Message: 2497
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 11:05:53

    Shut up, you baby-killing animal lover.

    Message: 2498
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 23:45:23

    Yes, you animal devouring baby burning advocate for the criminally insane.

    Perhaps a tour of fecal matter swimming in artic Greenland will freeze
    your mouth.

                                    -Mike
    (Happy New Year ya Wench)

    Message: 2499
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Beau Dog #2497
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:51:04

    I would say that discribes me well. Thanks. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2500
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Mike/last
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:53:28

    I certainly won't try to insult you fellow. You are absolutely the King of
    the insults! I remember when you and poor Daryl were at it. He was good -
    but you were still the King.
    You have a Happy New Years too dear. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 2501
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Taranto/doing
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 18:27:59

            I quit flushing.

    *=* Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 56117
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 00:51:07

         Screwing up that job, no doubt.

    Message: 56118
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff - the Zone?
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 04:57:31

    Why did you banish poor Mike and David to the Zone pray tell? That is a fate
    worse than death! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56119
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff Winters/job
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 04:59:50

    Congratulations! You can do it! You'll be on the road to prosperity once
    again. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56122
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Chomsky
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 18:09:19

      The Council on Hemispheric Affairs observes that "The White
    House keeps up a steady stream of calumny directed at
    Managua, charging the ruling Sandinistas with everything
    vile: drug-running, genocide, subverting their neighbors, and
    now international terrorism," charges that have not "been
    burdened with evidence" but are reported with only rare
    attempts at evaluation.  The technique is the one pioneered
    during World War I, when the first major government
    propaganda agency, the Committee on Public Information,
    discovered "that one of the best means of controlling news
    was flooding news channels with 'facts,' or what amounted to
    official information.
      Few are willing to undertake the tedious task of refuting
    the regular flood of lies; they have little access to the
    public in any event, and they can always be dismissed by the
    charge that they are apologists for the enemy and its actual
    crimes.  This standard device is sometimes used consciously
    as a technique to preserve the crucial Right to Lie in the
    Service of the State; or, for the more deeply indoctrinated,
    it may simply be impossible to conceive of criticism of the
    Holy State as anything but support for its official enemies,
    principled criticism of the divine institution being
    unimaginable.  In either case, the discussion shifts to the
    evil deeds of the official enemy and the critic can be
    dismissed as an apologist for these crimes, as having a
    "double standard," etc.: the Holy State and the Right to Lie
    in its service are secure.  The device was, and still is,
    used with tiresome regularity with reference to the Indochina
    wars: a critic of the US attack against South Vietnam must be
    a "supporter of Hanoi," so one can respond to the criticism
    by producing true or false charges against Hanoi, and if the
    critic refutes false charges, that just proves that he or she
    is an apologist for Hanoi as originally claimed and there is
    no need to consider the original criticism of the state one
    serves.  The same device is now constantly used in the case
    of Central America.
      One would think that the transparent silliness of the
    procedure would embarrass its practitioners, but evidently
    this is not the case.
      These are among the reactions which anyone who undertakes
    the task of principled criticism of state actions or domestic
    institutions should expect, if the critic is not simply
    ignored, a relatively simple matter in a deeply indoctrinated
    society in which private power can ensure fairly effective
    control over the means of expression.

    Message: 56124
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: 56038
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 18:51:19

    Bob,

    As Cliff as explained to you, if you do a $C when you read the posts, you
    have the option of using the Q key to skip by posts that you don't want to
    read.

    I use the Q, P and spacbar when scanning through posts on here....the Q
    mostly on Apro Poets.

    As to your insult....I must have missed it....try again

    Message: 56125
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: 56046
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 18:53:19

    Ann,

    Before I discovered the Q key, I was forced to read Apro's posts and I've
    found that there is very little in his posts that I miss.  Maybe there might
    be one or two that are readable, but reading all of them to find that one or
    two is like going through a garbage bin in hopes of finding a diamond ring.

    Message: 56126
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: 56111
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 18:56:38

    If you put poor Mike and David in the Phantom zone for their minor
    transgressions, how about Apro Poet also?  He's gone from 1-3 posts per day
    to 3-5!!  The man must spend full time finding things to plagiarize and bore
    people with...the Phantom zone would give him a much needed and well earned
    rest.

    Message: 56127
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 20:59:26

    You probably know this by now (it's on another SIG), but Mike and I wanted
    to be in the Phantom Zone.  Cliff kindly put us there.

    Message: 56128
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last...
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 21:52:04

    Yes, They asked to be there, so they were granted their wishes... David
    wanted out so I released him.  Mike wants out, but he is STILL there....
    I do not feel like letting him out.

            Do you have a problem with this?

    *=* The Mighty Apollo SYSOP Vanishes in a Puff of Blue Smoke *=*

    Message: 56129
    Author: $ Chris Neal
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last on PHAntom Zone
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 22:04:17

    Yes, I have a problem with that, BUT I AIN'T GONNA COMPLAIN, are you?

    Hehe!
    ----------=============*******>CHRIS<*******=============------114/18.8

    Message: 56130
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Cliff & All
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 23:24:08

    I need an old junk printer to send in for a rebate.  Can anyone help me?

    Message: 56131
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 01:56:06

    I have a piece of $#!+ Atari 825 printer.  What's in it for me?

    Message: 56132
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: David???
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 06:49:11

    Why did you want to be put in the Zone? Has too much school work warped your
    brain or something? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56133
    Author: $ Jeannie Innajug
    Category: Entertainment/Movies
    Subject: Comix
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 07:22:08

    Hey............Annie..........

    Too bad you don't read the morning Phoenix paper.  Berk Breathed's Bloom
    County is hitting right on your newest hot spot.

    He's got Opus the Penguin hunting for his long lost mother in a cosmetics
    testing laboratory.  Here are all these cute little Disney Thumper type
    bunnies strapped down on lab benches or fastened into torture devices while
    drugs are forced down their throats or chemicals like oven cleaner are
    sprayed into their eyes.

    And all the while this innocent penquin wanders around asking stupid
    questions and excusing himself for interrupting their lunch.

    My own personal feelings are that anyone should have the right to know which
    drugs and cosmetics are produced from animal research.  THen they could
    refuse to wear the cosmetics or refuse to take the disease curing drugs if
    it offended their sensibilities.  Kinda "Right to choose" for drug and
    cosmetics users!

    See Y'aa..............

    Jeannie

    Message: 56134
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Chomsky
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 18:11:37

      We return to some of the further charges against the
    Sandinistas.  The crucial point is that they have a
    cumulative effect, whatever their veracity.  It is
    well-understood by Reagan's advisors, the ADL and others
    practiced in the skills of defamation, lies and brainwashing
    that repeated charges that receive wide publicity create a
    lasting image, even if they are disproven point by point in
    critical analysis that may subsequently be noted on the back
    pages.  The chief foreign correspondent of the *London
    Guardian*, reviewing Ray Bonner's important book cited above,
    comments that Bonner (who notes that he originally accepted
    government deception as a journalist in El Salvador) "is
    rarely as angry about the journalists as about the officials
    who manipulate them":
         He is well enough aware that the issue in El Salvador is
         not reality as such, but how that reality is perceived:
         the United States is not just conducting a political,
         economic and military war, but a propaganda war as well.
         But he seems less exercised than he might be about the
         degree to which journalists accept the US Government
         line.  A lie reported as fact on the front page of the
         *New York Times* affects public opinion.  The same lie
         exposed years later by anonymous officials reminiscing,
         or thanks to a Freedom of Information suit, is mainly of
         interest to historians.  For every expose which Mr.
         Bonner and the handful of other industrious reporters
         make there are countless tendentious stories which are
         never challenged.  Beside the cascade of one-sided and
         inaccurate reports, based on untrue data or false
         premises, the honest and probing accounts are no better
         than a trickle.  Meanwhile, the policy juggernaut rolls
         on.
      Furthermore, even if the media were to treat state
    propaganda with a critical eye in the manner employed for
    official enemies, the government would still have won the
    major battle: namely, setting the framework for debate.  We
    spend little time analyzing or refuting Soviet charges about
    the terrorism of the Afghan resistance or Hitler's charges
    against Poland in 1939, but it is more difficult, it seems,
    to recognize the true nature of debate over Washington's
    charges against the Sandinistas at a time when it is
    launching its terrorist war against them.

    Message: 56136
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Zone
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 18:39:59

    No, I just wanted to read all those messages you put on the Zone whining to
    get out.  They were pretty entertaining.

    Message: 56137
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ZONE
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 19:10:12

            Ann is the best groveler I know.
    She can whine and whimper with the best of them.

    Message: 56138
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: David Burkhart
    Date: 12/22/88  Time: 20:48:41

    Ah, my first response.  I will be more than pleased to drive over to your
    house and remove it from your property at no expense to you.  How about it?

    Message: 56139
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeannie/Comics
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 07:04:13

    Yes, I read that comic strip daily - it's my favorite and your right - it
    always hits the nail on the head. Re: the Association we formed for animal
    rights - I guess it fell by the wayside. The guy that started it worked at a
    local feed store - they let him go three weeks ago and I haven't heard from
    him and he isn't answering his phone. So I don't know if we still have a
    club or not?! I have been thinking of joining another one - which there are
    several in the valley - but most of them are pretty fanatic. I think more
    can be accomplished if they are NOT that way. Some are really extreme - they
    don Ninja suits and raid labortories and steal the rabbits for example and
    let them go. Not that I disagree with doing such thing - but I don't want to
    end up in jail with a record. It would make me feel pretty damn good to
    brake into a place like that and free the animals! Or some awful pet store
    that mistreated their animals and take them out and give them away to good
    homes. But - that is being fanatic and besides - I'd be the one that got
    caught! Ha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56140
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: David - the Zone
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 07:06:35

    Oh my lord - you DIDN'T read that last 'pleading' message to Cliff did you?
    I really 'groveled' at his feet - but he did let me out after only one day!
    But that was pretty bad and I'm embarrassed that you may have read it.
    -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56141
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: JT
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 07:26:40

    Where have you been? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56142
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: #56128
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 10:30:47

    If they wanted to be there, then what you did was okay.  I was just thinking
    that Apro Poet might want to go to the Phantom Zone for a while.  There's a
    whole bunch of people there that haven't been bored by his posts yet.

    (LL)oyd Pulley

    Message: 56143
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: #56139
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 10:34:19

    Ann......like normal, Bloom County goes off on a liberal tangent.  You look
    at the cute penguin and forget that he is just an animal.  If the drug
    companies and cosmetic companies want to experiment on animals, more power
    to them.  We have tons of the types of animals that they want to experiment
    on, so there's no harm done.

    If killing 10,000 dogs/cats/rats/rabbits can save the life of one human,
    then I'm all for it.  If killing 20,000 dogs/cats/rats/rabbits can make one
    woman smell good, then let's kill 40,000 and make her smell even better!

    Message: 56144
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: My Dinner with...
    Subject: The Phantom Zone
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 17:33:09

    What an interesting place to be.
    Lotsa really great reading to do, especially those poor Annie wrote
    trying to buy her way out. I got such a kick out of them that I
    buffered them and they're ready for purposes of blackmail.
    Michelle Reynolds's posts were gems too.
    Gee, Cliff, you oughtta put up the "APOLLO GALLERY"  collections of
    your favorite posts from the past and turn it into a read only sig..
    kinda like an art gallery.

                            -Mike

    Message: 56145
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: Tru Fax
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 18:08:38

      The *Potomac News* reported that police were looking for a
    four-foot-tall, fifty-one-pound Santa Claus statue that was
    taken from the yard of Catherine and John Greenwalt, Jr. in
    Dale City, Virginia.  The Greenwalts had assumed their Santa
    was gone for good until they received a letter from Santa's
    kidnapper and five photos of their Santa "sunning it up in
    Virginia beach.
      "From the photographs, Santa appeared unharmed.  He was
    wearing sunglasses and standing beside a woman on the balcony
    of what appeared to be a second-floor beach apartment.
      "'I think we're gonna get more pictures,' said Greenwalt.
    'I think we're gonna hear from them again.'"

      According to the *Albuquerque Journal*, "Santa Claus was
    accidentally shot and wounded while preparing to visit the
    New Mexico State Penitentiary early Christmas Eve, said
    Warden George Sullivan."  Santa was talking to four kids who
    were visiting the prison when he heard a loud shot.  "There
    was smoke and everybody was thunderstruck," he said.  Feeling
    a burning pain in his leg, Santa "tried to bend over to see
    the wound, but a pillow over his stomach prevented him."
    Santa spent the afternoon in the emergency room.

    Message: 56146
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 18:13:25

    I was in the hospital.

    Message: 56147
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 18:30:38

    He had a lobotomy.

    Message: 56148
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike & Gallery
    Date: 12/23/88  Time: 18:52:27

            There already is such a place.
    It's the d of lost messages SIG.....  But it is not ready for mere
    mortals yet.

    Message: 56149
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Where...
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 00:25:03

    have the users that post gone?   There are just too many silent on Apollo!
    Speak up, or Apollo will surly not pick up new users.

    There is news out there...
            Jumbo 747 jet down...  terrorists or human error?

            Man on I-17 gets in accident... Shoots self! ?  Why?

            Will it Snow or Rain on Christmas day?

            1988 is almost over... will 1989 be better or worse?

            Does Ann Oudin wear a wig?  Is anything else real?

            Why was J.T. in a hospital.  A sex change or ingrown nail?

            Who saved money on Brandy this season?

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=* In God We Trust *=*

                    *=* Merry Christmas *=*

    Message: 56150
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: posting
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 00:41:01

    I can still speak and understand Esperanto. I am still skydiving. My gear
    arrived last week, I should try it out next week or next weekend. JT was in
    the hospital having his right wing removed so that he could be a moderate
    like Bush. Either that, or he was having three more added so he could be
    more like the people at the Heritage Foundation.

    Message: 56151
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pulley
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 03:40:16

    Remember, you're only an animal as well.

    Message: 56152
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/posters
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 04:30:45

    WEll, for one thing, the 747 crash in Scotland looks more like terrorism all
    the time, but the authorities are being ultre-conservative in their words,
    probably because they don't want to risk offending anyone, especially Arafat
    at a crucial time in their backstabbing of Israel. Another reason for their
    caution could be that Reagan is too chicken to wage a retaliatory strike
    this late in his political career. All he wants to do is get through the
    next few weeks and go back to the ranch to count his ill-gotten gains.
     As to the brandy, I saved lots of money on brandy. I didn't buy any. How's
    that for big savings? Come on over and enjoy a Pepsi!

    Message: 56153
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: JT/hospital?
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 08:00:57

    What for? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56154
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 08:02:54

    Ann DOES NOT wear a wig!!! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56155
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff - how could ..
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 08:08:11

    ... you even think of publishing what is said in the Phantom Zone? Don't pay
    any attention to that rat Mike either. He has a warped sense of humor to say
    the least. Did he plead and cajole to get out like the rest of us? Ha! I'll
    bet you just let good old Mike out with a slap on the wrist - Right? Me? My
    knees are still sore from being down on them pleading with the Mighty Sysop
    to be let out within a reasonable time! Did you serve Mike breakfast in bed
    while he was in there? Men! They stick together like super glue and make the
    women grovel. Bah - humbug!! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56156
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Lloyd/animals
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 08:14:57

    You are a sick person! Yes, animals are needed to test medicines and such so
    that they can save human lives - but you missed the point of the cartoon
    entirely! It's how they go about testing said medicines. It can be done
    humanely - or better yet, let human's test some of the stuff like perfume if
    they want it so bad. If you feel so casually cruel towards animals - what
    are your feelings towards humans? Suffering is suffering whether it be by
    animals or mankind. Who needs perfume anyway? Women? So that they can please
    men like you? Sicko Lloyd!
                                -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56158
    Author: Harry Andrews
    Category: For sale
    Subject: Printer
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 08:57:30

    For Sale - C.ITOH 80 Column Printer
    Model 7500  - $ 50.00
    Call Harry Andrews - 842-0628

    For Sale - Magnavox CGA Color Monitor
    Model CM8562 - RGB input -- $150.00
    Contact Harry Andrews - 842-0628

    Message: 56160
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hospital
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 09:20:01

    I had a medical problem.

    Message: 56161
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Wig
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 11:05:26

            Okay, so you don't wear a 'wig', but you did not deny about the
    other "False" items!

    Message: 56162
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on animals
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 12:18:05

    I'll bet she doesn't wear any perfume, or makeup, either, so she can be like
    the animals she loves so much.

    Message: 56163
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: Tru Fax
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 13:22:47

      Santas in Berne, Switzerland, will be required to "carry
    proper identification, complete with names and photographs,
    so parent who hire a Santa to distribute Christmas gifts to
    their children will be sure of getting 'the real thing," said
    a rent-a-Santa agency.  The move was made necessary after
    complaints that fake Santas, who claimed to be staff members
    of the agency, were found drinking, smoking, and cursing on
    the job."  *(Cleveland, Ohio) Plain Dealer*

      A newspaper in Maryland reported that a Santa in
    Wellington, New Zealand, was "sacked for smoking on duty,
    wearing an improper uniform, and handing out sweets to
    teenagers instead of just toddlers.  Shopkeepers said his
    generosity encouraged teenage loitering.  His patrons
    included an eighty-nine-year-old woman who sat on his knee
    and asked for a microwave."

      According to the *Winnipeg Free Press*, "Kathy Odger took
    her five-year-old grandson Aaron to see Santa Claus at
    Portage Place," a local shopping mall.  After only seconds on
    Santa's lap, the little boy "bolted off Santa's knee and
    over to his grandma."  After much coaxing, Aaron finally told
    his grandma what had happened.
      "He said he had asked Santa for a dog," Odger explained.
    "Santa asked him what kind of dog?  My grandson said, 'a big
    dog.'"  That's when Santa looked down at the boy and said,
    "Do you want a big f*cking dog?"
      Colleen O'Rourke, manager of Portage Place, admitted that
    Santa may have used the f-word.  "Perhaps he had a bad day,"
    she said.  "I don't know."

    Message: 56165
    Author: $ Chris Neal
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Apro/Last
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 13:50:04

    That last one was pretty good!!!  Kepp 'em coming!

    ----------=============*******>CHRIS<*******=============------114/18.8

    Message: 56166
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Christmass
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 18:02:05

    This is a story my friend wrote about Christmass, I hope you enjoy it as
    much as I did.  It also made my think.  Enjoy...
    "Danny!... Come on, get up!"
    "Huh?  Oh, I'm up.  What time is it?"
    "it's ten after three.  Let's go see if he's been here!"
    "All right.  Let"S go!...  Remember, don't turn on the room lights.  Let's
    plug in the tree.  Where's the plug?"
    "I got it Danny!  Here goes...  Wow!  Santa's been here!  Look at all the
    presents!"

         Ever since I can remember, my brothers and I would be like this on
    Christmas morning.  We'd all open our stockings, shake the presents under
    the tree, and wait until mom and dad woke up so we could start opening
    them.  Sometimes we would turn on some Christmas music while we watched the
    lights on the tree blink on and off...  Our whole family helped decorate for
    the holiday.  We usually started about two weeks before Christmas.
         "Can we put the tree up tonight dad?"  We'd been asking for weeks,
    thinking that sooner or later he'd have to give in.  It was a concentrated
    effort.  A dad can only say 'not yet' to four sons for so long before he has
    to give in.
         "O.K. Tonight's the night!"  He probably knew what night he planned on
    starting, sort of like tradition.  But we thought we'd finally won him over.
         We always started by getting the Christmas tree boxes out of the
    garage.  We had an artificial tree in those days.

    It filled four large boxes.  Basically it was just a tall pole with holes
    filled all around it at different levels.  In the boxes were all the
    branches.  The wire ends of the branches that went in the pole were all
    color coded so we knew where they went.  Every year it got harder and harder
    to tell what the colors were.

    "Dad, where does this one go?"
    "Let's see.  It looks...blue...Yes.  It goes with the blue."
         "Can we get a real tree this year?"  That was the question.  The
    question.  Every year one of us would say it, and then we all would join in.
    "Please can we?!"
    "Pleeeeaaasssse!?"
         "WHAT'S WRONG WITH OUR TREE?!"  The answer.  Silence.
         I'm not really sure how it happened.  Officially we blame it on poor
    packing, though perhaps other forces were at work.  Whatever the case, the
    next year there was a branch missing and a few were badly bent and mangled.
    My three brothers and I were terrified.  Dad would surely think one of us
    did it.  No one said a word.  We just stared at the mangled branches and
    then at each other.  Then dad spoke up.
         "When are people going to learn how to pack?!"  He sounded loud, but
    the anger which I expected was missing.  I really didn't get it.  He did as
    much of the packing as we did.  "Does anyone know how this happened?!"
    Silence

    Then mom saved the day.  "Well, it was an old tree.  This was bound to
    happen sooner or later."
         My brothers and I started breathing again, ever so slightly,  It wasn't
    over yet!
         "Well, what are we supposed to do for a tree?!"  I don't know if he was
    talking to us or to mom, but my older brother started crying.  I started
    crying.  This was unberable.  We had the entire tree put together except for
    the missing and mangled pieces.  It looked awful.  Christmas looked awful
    right then.  We were sent to bed early that night.  I cried myself to sleep
    in the top bunk.  My brother didn't even tell me to shut up.  We were
    convinced that there wasn't going to be any Christmas, no presents, unless
    someone confessed.  And yet, I still wondered why dad didn't sound as angry
    as I expected.  I held on to this as a hope and prayer that no one would get
    in trouble.
    "Come on boys!  Time to get up!"  It was 5:00 in the morning.
         Why do we gotta get uuuuuuppppp?  I'm tirrrrred!"  I was a great
    whiner.  Even without a good reason I could whine with the best of the baby
    brothers in the world.  This time I had a reason.  "Mommmmmmmmmm..."

    Cont

    Message: 56169
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Merry Christmas
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 19:59:02

    To all Christians, enjoy the celebration of life and Christs gift to
    mankind.

    To all Theists of different types, Have a merry celebration and enjoy!

    To all Atheists; Have a happy holiday on Christ!

                                    -Mike

    Message: 56170
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Posting
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 20:31:35

      I have been away for a while, but now that I am back I will post something
    once in a while, so rest easy.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 56172
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hathaway
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 20:52:15

    Thank God.  Now I can sleep again.

    Message: 56173
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Carls
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 20:52:22

    Not a bad story, but I thought it ended rather abruptly.

    Message: 56174
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: In search of
    Subject: story cont
    Date: 12/24/88  Time: 22:12:29

        It was my dad who answered.  "There wouldn't be any place for Santa to
    put presents if we didn't have a tree.  We're gonna go up to the mountains
    and get a real tree!  It's about time we got rid of that old one."  Back
    then I didn't give it much thought.  I was just happy not to be in trouble.
    But as I think about it now, I wonder if it wasn't my dad who lost that
    branch, on purpose...
         "All right!"  We were awake and ready to go in an hour.  Not only were
    we excited about getting a real tree, but also we were going to see snow!
    It didn't snow where we lived.  The tears of last night were forgotten in
    the excitement of the trip.  That was what was so great about being a kid.
    Sadness didn't stay in the way of happiness.
         So we all packed into the family car, a big four door dodge.
         "Are we there yet?"  People laugh about it as adults, but when you are
    just a little kid long car rides are hard to handle.
         "Almost dear,"  It's always the same answer.  No matter how far you
    really are, it is always the same answer.  I guess that's fair though, no
    matter how short a time you've been riding it's always the same question.
         "Snow! Snow " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls  Look at the snow!"
    There it was.  Decorating the trees, blanketing the ground lightly, snow
    getting deeper and thicker with every mile we climbed.  This was my first
    encounter with snow in recent memory.  Oh, sure, I played in it lots when I
    was in New York.  But I hadn't seen it at all in the years since we moved to
    the West.  But I  had such fond memories of it that I couldn't wait to play
    in it again.  I was going to build a snowman, just like Frosty the Snowman!

         "Well, Hon, I think we better stop here and put the chains on."  I
    could hear dad and mom talking in the front seat.  We were just about to
    turn down a side road that led deeper onto the forest.  Even from the main
    road I could see dozens of trees that would be just right for our tree.  Dad
    stopped the car and turned around to us.
         "You kids want to help?"
         "Yeah!"  we all cried in unison.  I had no idea what he was talking
    about, but I knew that once I got outside I could play in the snow.
         "Put you coats on now."
         "Awwww mommmm.  All right..."
         We piled out.  My two oldest brothers started to follow my dad's
    instructions, laying out chain nets behind the tires and stuff.  I just
    wanted to play, so my other brother and I started playing around in the
    snow.
         "Don't wnader too far away!"
         "Hey, let's have a snowball fight!"
         "O.K.  You get over there and I'll stay here."  He had a conniving look
    on his face.  I started to walk to where he had pointed, but I only got
    about ten feet when he hit me.  SMACK!  Right in the back of the head with a
    snowball!
         "You cheater!  That's not fair!"  It's not that it hurt.  And if I'd
    thought of it I'd probably have done the same thing.  That's what got me
    mad.  I didn't think of it first.  I suppose that was always the problem
    with being the youngest brother.

    I never thougt of anything first.  Even if I did, they would always say that
    they already knew that or had done that before.
         "You're gonna get it now!"  He was already throwing another snowball.
    This time he missed.  I bent down and got a handful of snow.  "Aaaagghh!"
         "What's wrong?"
    "This stuff's COLD!"
    It's snow stupid!"
         "Yeah, but why's it so cold?"
         " 'Cause it's snow."
         I dropped it.  My hands were red and numb.  My feet started getting
    numb too.  This wasn't the way I remembered snow.  How could anyone have fun
    in this?"
         "I can't even feel my feet!"
         "Don't be a baby!"  He threw another snowball at me and hit me in the
    arm.  I got really mad and threw one at him but missed.  Then I ran to the
    car and got in.
         Pretty soon we were on our way again.  The road was really icy and my
    mom was nervous.
         "Slow down a little, please!  Dear, maybe we shouldn't go too far in."
    But my dad knew what he was doing.
         "Calm down.  Everything is fine.  The chains are working great."  So we
    drove for miles.  I was amazed that there weren't any other cars, but the
    snow was even more fascinating.  Once inside the car the snow didn't look so
    bad.

    I soon forgot my hands and feet had been frozen and was again eager to get
    outside.  Eventually we stopped.
         "Let's get a real big one!"  The cold wasn't so bad anymore.  My mom
    had given me mittens.  I tried making a snowball with the intention of
    throwing it my brother, but the snow just stuck to the mitten and then
    started melting.  Then my hands started getting cold again so I gave up on
    trying to make snowballs.
         "How about that one over there?"  My mom had finally gotten out of the
    car.  "It looks nice and full!"
         "Nooooo.  It's tooo short."  My brothers were with me on this one.  It
    had to be tall.
         "Here's the perfect tree!"
         "But look.  It's bare on this side."
         "over here!  How about this one?"
         "Tha's not full enough.  It looks like a twig!"  The whole family was
    getting into this now.  We were going to find the perfect tree if it took
    all day.  Then it started snowing.
         "We'd better find one soon or we're gonna get snowed in here!"  This
    meant that unless we made up our minds soon dad was going to just pick one
    and go.  He never did care for being too picky about things like this.  He
    said there was no perfect tree.  But I knew there was.
         I wandered off a little way down a hill.  Everywhere I looked were pine
    trees, except that to me they were Christmas trees.  The falling snow made
    everything seem magical and alive.

    Soon the branches were lightly dusted in white and when you shook them snow
    would fly all over you.  Christmas was looking better and better.  My family
    kept exclaiming, "Oh, here we go!"  or "This is it!"  but then someone would
    always find something wrong with it.
         "In five minutes I'm picking the tree nearest me and cutting it down!"
    Both my parents were getting very impatient.
         "Over here!"  Perhaps perfection is only in the eyes of the beholder.
    If so the whole family saw this one the way I did.  It just sort of stepped
    out in front of me as I was looking around.  I knew this was it.
         "Oh look!  It has a perfect top for the angel!"  Mom had inherited the
    angel from her mom so this was very important.
         "Good eye son."  My dad didn't often say things like that.  Even though
    it was very cold outside I felt warm and proud inside.  My brothers hadn't
    ever fond the perfect Christmas tree before, though it seemed more like this
    one found me.  It was tall and full with a good long stem at the bottom.  It
    would fit just right in the corner of the living room.
         We all helped in cutting it down, except mom who kept telling us to be
    careful.  It really wasn't very hard.  Even my dad was a bit surprised.  It
    was almost as if the tree were helping us.  Not that I thought about it at
    the time.  I just kept feeling warm.
         Soon we had taken the tree to the car, us four boys carrying it.  Dad
    said that was why he had four sons -- to do the heavy labor.  It was a good
    time.

    We had to tie the tree up on the top of the car.  It was funny driving down
    the road with one end of the tree ponting out over the front of the car and
    the other end of the tree sticking out behind.  I thought maybe if we got up
    enough speed we could fly with the tree.  I had always wanted to fly.
         "O.K. boys.  Time for you to get to bed now."  We got home very late
    that night.  I slept most of the way anyway.
         "Don't forget to wash up and say your prayers!"  Every night mom said
    the same thing.  I didn't wash up that night, but as I was drifting off to
    sleep again I said a little prayer.
         "Thank you God..."
         The next evening we decorated.
         "A little to the left...there.  No.  Wait...  It's leaning forward a
    bit...  Back to the right now...  My right!  There you go.  Perfect!"  My
    mom was very emphatic when it came to getting the tree to stand exactly
    straight.  She said if it wasn't straight it might fall over and crush our
    presents, so that made me emphatic too.
         "It looks naked."  My brother was right.  In the forest it looked
    perfect.  In our house it looked naked.  It wasn't "A Christmas Tree" quite
    yet.
         First my dad and older brother wound the lights around it.  I always
    wanted to help but I was too short.
         "O.K. I'm going to put the icicles on now.  Why don't you boys put the
    other decorations up around the house."  That was the first time my mom ever
    put icicles on our tree.

    On the artificail tree we didn't use icicles they were too hard to take off.
     She took a long time.  One by one she put the icicles on.  I always thought
    she would throw them all around the tree, but mom said it looked much better
    this way and she didn't care how long it took.  She was right too.  SOmeday
    I'll teach my kids that.  Take your time and do things right.  That way
    things turn out better.  Every year after that mom put the icicles on.
         "Can we have some cookies?"  These weren't any cookies.  These were our
    special homemade cookies that we made every year at Christmas time.  We made
    so many that the whole family pitched in.  It was an old Polish recipe and
    we called them Machine cookies because you put the dough in this hand
    cranking machine that would crank out the dough in a thick rope that we
    would then design into different shapes.  They were light and delicious and
    neither we nor the people who we gave them to ever got tired of them.
         "O.K.  You boys can put up the bulbs on now."  The tree was looking
    better and better!"
         "Be careful now.  Here are some new hooks if anyone needs some."  Many
    of the bulbs and ornaments were very old, having belonged to my
    grandparents.  Every year a few more accidentally broke and were replaced
    with new ones.  But we always had plenty.
         "Put some more over here guys."
         "Mom, where's the one I made in school?...  Oh here it is."
         "I can't reach up there.  Can someone put this star over there for me?
    Thanks!"

         "Where should I put the candy canes?"
         "We need some more on this side."
         "Let me have one!"
         With all four of us working it didn't take long.  Then my parents would
    point out where it was lopsided with too many ornaments in one spot and we
    try and better spread them out.
         "Can I put the angel up this year, dad?"  I guess my oldest brother
    figured he was getting big enough to do that now.
         "sure son.  Go get the stepladder to do that now.DDDDDDDDDDDD
         "Just be very careful with that now."  Mom was biting her nails.  It
    really was a pretty angel.  It had silver wings and a candle that lit up
    when you plugged her in.
         "I can do it!  Don't worry.  Here goes...  Could you hold me so I don't
    fall, dad?  Thanks.  I think I can reach it...  There! Is it straight?"
         "turn it a little towards you."
         "How's that?:"
         "Perfect!"
         "Can we plug the light in now?!"  This was my favorite part of all.
         "O.K.  Let's see how it looks."
         "Wait!  First we have to turn out the room ligts."  If you are going to
    do it, you might as well do it right.  I didn't want to miss the full
    effect.
         "O.K.  Here goes!"

         "Wowwwwwwww!"
         "Neato!"
         "Isn't it beautiful!"
         "Let's turn on Christmas music!"  Mom chose a record and put it on.
         ',,,  Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas Tree, How Lovely are your
    branches!...'
         It was a perfect tree.  I used to get up in the middle of the night,
    when everyone else was asleep, and go sit by the tree.  I would plug in the
    lights after making sure every other light in the house was off.  I would
    put on a Christmas record ever so softly and then just sit there and watch
    the lights blink on and off in all different colors through the icicles.
    Sometimes I would sit there for hours.  Sometimes I would talk to God.  I
    would stare at the figure of baby Jesus in the manger below the tree.  All
    while the Christmas songs would play over and over, telling stories about
    how Jesus came, about the star and the shepards, the Little Drummer Boy, and
    how the angels came to visit Mary...  Sometimes tears would form in my eyes
    and I didn't know why.  I felt so peaceful, so loved...  No one ever knew
    that I did this, until just now...
         On Christmas morning my brothers and I would get up very early.  Usually
    whoever got up first would wake the others up.  Then we would go in and see
    the tree and the presents.  I would turn on the lights and one of my
    brothers would turn on the music.  Everyone would shake the boxes and figure
    out what was in them.  We had to wait for mom and dad to get up before we
    opened anything, but we could look in our stockings.

         As my brothers got older they started sleeping later and later on
    Christmas morning.  I would get up at four o'clock and they would tell me to
    wake them up later.
         Even after Christmas day I would get up at night sometimes just to
    watch the tree.  It looked and felt so right, so peaceful.  I never wanted
    Christmas to end...
         "Well, it's about that time."  It was two weeks after Christmas
    and my dad had been hinting at this for a week now, saying  things
    like,  "Tree's getting kind of dry, huh?" and "The needles are starting
    to fall off..."  I kept pretending not to hear, but finally the day
    came, as I knew it would.  We went out to the garage and got the boxes
    for the decorations.
         "Remember to be careful with the bulbs!"
         "Take the angel down first!"  There was no Christmas music now.
    Christmas was over.
         "Dad?:"
         "What?"
         "What are we gonna do with this tree?"  If he was going to take it back
    to the forest I wanted to go with him.
         "Well, the tree is dead son.  We're going to put it out for the garbage
    men to take."
         My eyes began to water but I held the tears back.  I felt empty

    inside.  My brothers finished packing everything and then my dad took the
    tree, with the icicles still on it, out to the front sidewalk and put it next
    to the garbage cans.  He left a trail of icicles in the lawn which you could
    still see traces of weeks afterward.  That night I went out to visit the
    tree.  It looked naked.
         "I'm sorry."  My eyes started to water again and I let the tears fall
    this time.  I touched one of the branches a long green needle came off in my
    hand...  "Thank you for being our tree..."  I felt so guilty.  I felt like
    this tree had given us so much joy!  It had given a place for Santa to put
    the presents, a place for Jesus to lie in a manger.  It had been a friend to
    me so many nights.  And this was how we thanked it.
         "I'll never forget you..."  I clutched the pine needle in my hand...  A
    couple of weeks ago I opened my Bible to read about the crucifixation of
    Jesus, and I found the needle there.  At first I was going to throw it away,
    thinking that I was too old to be holding on to things like this.  But I was
    about to drop it in the garbage I noticed it was till green...
         The next morning the tree was gone.

         We never went back to the forest to get a tree.  The next year someone
    started selling real trees from an empty lot up the street, and pretty soon
    all over town people were selling real trees from empty lots.  It was
    quicker and easier to get one of these so we did.  It really wasn't a bad
    compromise either.  Somehow we always managed to find the perfect tree.

         A few years later my parents got divorced.  We stopped making machine
    cookies and one, two, of my brothers went off to college.  Eventually my
    other brother moved out too.  My mom decided the house was too big for just
    the two of us so we moved into an appartment.
         For the last couple of years it was usually just mom and I who
    decorated our tree at Christmas time, though occasionally a brother
    would drop in and help.  To this day I still sit up late at night during
    Christmas and watch the tree's lights blink on and off in all different
    colors through the carefully and lovingly placed icicles.  Sometimes as I
    sit there I think about the way my family used to be.  Sometimes I wish I
    were still a kid.  God, who doesn't?  Sometimes I stare at the same figure
    of the baby Jesus, and somehow I know that it's all worked out for the best.
     All the while the Christmas songs play over and over.  And after Christmas
    I get a terrible, empty feeling inside when I see all the Christmas trees
    piled next to the dumpster.
         This year I"m away at college and I won't be able to be home to
    decorate the tree...  I guess mom will have to do it herself.  Last night on
    the phone she mentioned maybe getting a small artificial tree.  I cried when
    she hung up.  I sure would miss the icicles...

    This story was written by Thaddeus Semon.  I hope you enjoy it.  It got me
    to thinking.

    Message: 56186
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Today
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 00:32:24

    MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!
    HAPPY HOLIDAY!!!!!!!
    Or GOOD EVENING!!!!!!
    Steven " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Carls

    Message: 56187
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Merry Christmas
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 01:28:10

    Merry Christmas, everybody!  Thanks for posting the story, Steve, even if I
    did have to autodial for a long time to get on.

    Message: 56188
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: today
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 01:56:32

    Merry Cliffmas!

    Message: 56189
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last few/BUNCH!
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 02:34:51

            Nice story Steve....  Thank you Nick!

    Merry Christmas to all... and Happy Hollidays to the rest...

    God Bless you all!

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 56190
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Merry Christmas
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 08:49:00

    Fa la la la la la la la la.

    Message: 56191
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: JT
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 09:30:51

    What kind of medical problem? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56192
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff/false stuff
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 09:32:54

    The only false stuff on me is my sculptured fingernails and they are over my
    real nails. I need no other help thank you.
                          -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56193
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beau Dog
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 09:36:15

    Of course I wear perfume and make-up. I just object to them coming out with
    more and more of the same each year. We do not need it unless it is a real
    brake through - such as a new cream that will make me look like a young Liz
    Taylor! Hahahahaha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56194
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/#56170
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 09:39:06

    Were you in the same hospital as JT was? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56195
    Author: $ Chris Neal
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Toady
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 10:12:58

    Merry Christmas and a Happy ne year!!!!

    Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho!!!!!!!!!

    ----------=============*******>CHRIS<*******=============------114/18.8

    Message: 56196
    Author: Mark Dillon
    Category: Joke
    Subject: people
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 11:02:33

    d
    Q
    F
    H
    R

    Message: 56197
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Chomsky
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 15:51:29

      A fundamental reason for the great successes achieved in
    "brainwashing under freedom" is that the essential premises
    of the state terrorists are widely shared, even among their
    most ardent critics within the mainstream; as Jonathan Steele
    puts it more harshly, the problem is that "journalists share
    the same narrow, ignorant assumptions as the policy-makers."
    To make one example, consider the *Boston Globe*, perhaps the
    most consistent critic of Reagan's thuggery in Nicaragua, as
    they correctly describe it.  Randolph Ruan of the *Globe*
    staff, the most outspoken of these critics, writes that
    critics have so far failed because they have not succeeded in
    putting forth their belief that "America's strength grows
    from the force of its moral example."  Adopting the
    terminology of Kissinger and others, he writes that in
    1980-81 "there was an impression that the revolutionary left
    was on a roll in Central America.  The administration
    correctly saw that infectious spirit as a 'virus' that had to
    be stopped."  But now Nicaragua is "no longer a subversive
    'virus'" and has become just an opportunity to win a cheap
    victory.
      Illustrated here are some of the essential contributions
    of the critics to reinforcing state terror.  First, we have
    the reference to "the force of ((America's)) moral example,"
    as if history demonstrates any such truth.  Second, the
    absurd Administration claim that the attack on Nicaragua
    was motivated by its alleged role in arming the guerrillas
    in El Salvador is accepted; and more important, it is
    explicitly assumed that if Nicaragua were indeed providing
    arms to people being massacred by US clients, then this
    crime would merit retribution - just as writers in *Pravda*
    no doubt thunder about the crimes of Pakistan and the US in
    aiding the feudal "bandits" who are "terrorizing"
    Afghanistan.  But most important is the shared belief that
    the "infectious virus" must be stopped, by force if
    necessary.  The "virus," of course, was never the flow of
    arms to El Salvador, but rather the threat of successful
    independent development, under the principles of the rotten
    apple theory.  And if this doctrine is accepted, then the
    Administration has a strong case.  Evidently this danger has
    not been averted, so there is every reason, on the premises
    that Ryan and Reagan share, to continue the "low intensity
    war" to ensure suffering, discontent, inability to develop any
    contructive programs, and the rise to power of the harshest
    elements, who will be dependent on the Soviet bloc, thus
    providing retrospective justification for the attack.

    Message: 56199
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 16:15:30

    Don't you think it's in rather poor taste to interrogate me about my health
    on a public system?  Medical problems are very personal, and many of them
    can be embarrassing or worse.  If you feel you know me well enough to be
    inquiring about my health, you ought at least to have the courtesy to do so
    privately.

    Message: 56200
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: B Dog
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 17:49:27

    Re:  "I can still speak and understand Esperanto."

    I thought Esperanto was a dead language?  Ha!  Ha!

    Message: 56201
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 17:51:31

    Great art work Ann!

    Message: 56203
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Thornburg
    Date: 12/25/88  Time: 23:25:00

    Esperanto is alive and well, having made it past 100 years of age.

    Message: 56204
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann #56156/56193
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 01:40:23

    I see.....you wear makeup but object to them coming out with more each year.
    Since your animals have already been tortured (your opinion) to make your
    perfume, it's time to stop.

    Ann, I've grown up around animals all of my life.  I was raised on a farm,
    so am experienced animals.  And except for endangered species, I see nothing
    wrong with using animals to make a humans life better.  There are millions
    of dogs/cats put to sleep everyday, there are billions of rabbits that are
    over-running parts of Australia....so these animals are not on any
    endangered species list.

    While I don't advocate cruelty in these experiments, I do advocate doing
    whatever is necessary.  Also, cruelty to 'Bloom County' might not be cruelty
    to me...or many others.  I won't run up on a side-walk to hit a dog/cat (but
    I do have a cousin that will), but I won't wreck my car and/or endanger the
    lifes of the people in my car trying to dodge one either.

    BTW, they don't kill/torture animals to make perfume, so that women can wear
    it, to make *me* happy.  I dislike 99.9% of all perfumes on the market.  As
    a matter of fact, many of them make me physically ill.  I'd prefer that a
    woman wear no perfume and just smell freshly washed.

    Message: 56205
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 02:18:58

    Personally, I get far more enjoyment out of torturing an animal (human or
    otherwise) when it's wearing my favorite fragrance. Internal organs are just
    too smelly otherwise.

    Message: 56206
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto/Hospital
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 09:29:26

    Prostate?

    Message: 56207
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Lloyd/animals
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 10:01:26

    For the most part I do agree with your post. Here is one of the things I
    object to re: test animals: -- I.E. a well known detergent for cleaning
    clothes had been on the market for years - the company feels it's not doing
    as well as it should so in order to boost sales of said product, they want
    to add a new ingredient so that they can advertize it as 'New and Improved'
    etc. etc. 99% of the time it does nothing to make that product clean clothes
    better - but it does boost the sales. Thousands of animals must die for
    this. This is NOT helping mankind! - It's a matter of money.
    Re: your statement about being experienced because you were raised on a farm
    - I was raised in a huge city and I doubt that any farm boy would know
    anything more about animals than I do! In fact, I know many, many people
    that live on farms or ranches and find them the most cruel of all.
                            -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56208
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 14:41:15

    Acne ?

    Message: 56209
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 19:41:50

    Would you believe, AIDS-Related Complex?

    Message: 56210
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Chomsky
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 20:30:33

      As was true during the war against South Vietnam, then all
    of Indochina, the contribution of mainstream critics to
    entrenching the doctrines of the state religion is a crucial
    one, which is why they are tolerated, indeed honored for
    their courage and decency.
      The irrelevance of government claims about the war against
    Nicaragua is evident from the way the motivation shifts as
    circumstances demand.  At one point, the attack was justified
    by the need to prevent arms flow to El Salvador.  By 1983, no
    significant arms flow having been detected despite massive
    efforts, the aim was to "bring the Sandinistas to the
    bargaining table" and force them to hold elections.  In June
    1984, the President told Congress that US aid to the
    *contras* must continue to pressure the Sandinistas to
    negotiate; unless we do, he said, "a regional settlement
    based on the Contadora principles will continue to elude us."
    A few months later, elections had been held, the Sandinistas
    had accepted the Contadora principles causing the
    Administration to discover suddenly that they were a sham and
    a fraud, and they were continuing to request negotiations
    that the US refuses.  So the argument shifted again: we read
    in the news columns that "the Reagan Administration has
    demanded that Nicaragua demilitarize, reduce its ties with
    the Soviet Union and Cuba and change its form of government
    to a pluralistic democracy."  A moment's thought suffices to
    show that the best way to bring Nicaragua to demilitarize and
    cut its ties with the Soviet bloc would be to accept the
    Contadora agreements blocked by US pressure and to call off
    the war, and that the commitment of the Reagan
    Administration, or its predecessors, to "pluralistic
    democracy" in Central America is as believable as the Soviet
    commitment to "socialism" or "democracy" in its domains.  But
    this drivel, for that is what it is, is blandly reported as
    "news" in the nation's press.  Nothing could be more plain
    than the absurdity of the whole game, in which the media play
    their assigned role, earnestly reporting each pretense and
    occasionally commenting on the weakness of the argument or
    the "inconsistency" of the highly consistent and rational
    policy.

    Message: 56212
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 12/26/88  Time: 21:10:46

    No, but I might believe a tubule ligation.

    Message: 56213
    Author: $ Joe Bottomlee
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Steven/Christmas Sto
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 02:12:23

    Steven, I really enjoyed the story you posted. Thanks for posting it.

                                   <<< Joe >>>

    Message: 56214
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Christmas Story
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 14:20:33

    I am so glad that most of you liked the Christmas Story that I posted.  I
    will tell the writer that it was appreciated, EH???  I am sorry if I made it
    hard for you fellow users to get on while I was typing that story.  It is 15
    typed pages long, EH???   Thanks for the comments and have a GREAT NEW Year
     " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls

    Message: 56215
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Chomsky
    Date: 12/27/88  Time: 17:12:53

      The real reasons for the "lust" to destroy the Sandinista
    regime have nothing to do with the charges that are raised,
    whether valid or simply concocted.  That is obvious enough.
    The real reasons can readily be explained on other grounds:
    by fear of Nicaraguan success.  The Oxfam report on
    Sandinista social successes inspires real fear; useless tanks
    do not.  The real reasons are based on the argument that
    President Wilson regarded as "unanswerable": the interests of
    the people of Latin America are "an incident, not an end."
    What is paramount is a narrowly conceived American interest:
    "The protection of our raw materials," the Fifth Freedom.  We
    must therefore become deeply concerned when some group
    becomes infected by the heresy detected by US intelligence:
    "the idea that the government has direct responsibility for
    the welfare of the people," what US political theology calls
    "Communism" in our Third World domains, whatever the
    commitments of its advocates.
      In the real world, as we shall see in more detail directly,
    the US has consistently opposed "human rights, the raising of
    the living standards, and democratization," using harsh
    measures where necessary.  These policies are natural
    concomitants of the geopolitical conceptions that have
    motivated planning and that are deeply rooted in American
    institutions.  It is not surprising, for example, that the US
    should react with extraordinary hostility to democracy in
    Laos or should overthrow the only democratic government in
    the history of Guatemala, keeping in power a series of mass
    murderers ever since.  It is familiar to students of US
    policy that "while paying lip-service to the encouragement of
    representative democracy in Latin America, the United States
    has a strong interest in just the reverse," apart from
    "procedural democracy, especially the holding of elections -
    which only too often have proved farcical."  The reason is
    that democracies may tend to be responsive to popular needs,
    while "the United States has been concerned with fostering
    the most favourable conditions for her private overseas
    investment":
         ...United States concern for representative democracy in
         Latin America is a facet of her anti-communist policy.
         There has been no serious question of her intervening in
         the case of the many right-wing military coups, from
         which, of course, this policy has generally benefited.
         It is only when her own concept of democracy, closely
         identified with private, capitalistic enterprise, is
         threatened by communism ((or to be more accurate, by
         independent development, whether capitalist, socialist,
         or whatever)) that she has felt impelled to demand
         collective action to defend it.
      It is only when some form of democracy contributes to
    maintaining the Fifth Freedom that the US will tolerate it;
    otherwise, terror-and-torture states will have to do.
      From these real world considerations, one can come to
    understand the "lust" to strike out against Nicaragua - or
    Allende, or Cuba, or the National Liberation Front of South
    Vietnam.  It is not because of the abuses of human rights and
    democratic principle, often real, sometimes despicable, but
    rarely approaching what we tolerate with equanimity, directly
    support, or carry out ourselves.  Rather, US policy towards
    Nicaragua is immediately predictable from the fact that the
    priorities of the new government "meant that Nicaragua's poor
    majority would have access to, and be the primary
    beneficiaries of, public programs," the fact that infant
    mortality fell so dramatically that Nicaragua won an award
    from the World Health Organization for the best health
    achievement in a Third World nation, health standards and
    literacy sharply improved, a successful agrarian reform was
    carried out, GDP expanded by 5% in 1983 in contrast to other
    countries in the region, production and consumption of corn,
    beans and rice rose dramatically and Nicaragua came closer to
    self-sufficiency than any other Central American nation and
    made the most impressive gains of any Latin American nation
    in the Quality of Life Index of the Overseas Development
    Council, based on literacy, infant mortality and life
    expectancy.  Burns comments that "Nicaragua should, in many
    ways, stand as an example for Central America, not its
    outcast.  The grim social statistics from Honduras, a country
    in which the population is literally starving to death, stand
    in sharp contrast to the recent achievements of Nicaragua."
    That is just the point; the infection must be stopped before
    it spreads.
      Similarly, the crime of the Allende government was that it
    quickly raised production and real wages, conducted an
    effective agrarian reform and such programs as milk
    distribution for children, "measures that increased consumer
    demand and permitted industry to take advantage of unutilized
    capacity and idle labor," and worse, did so under
    parliamentary democracy - though such dangerous progress
    could not long persist as the Nixon-Kissinger destabilization
    policy, designed to "make the economy scream," in Nixon's
    words, had its effects, along with other factors.

    Message: 56220
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Hospital
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 17:22:48

      It was worse than that, I was in California.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 56221
    Author: Mychele Nickels
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Animals
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 19:15:15

    My only problem with killing animals seems to be with ones that are cute.  I
    have no problem eating hamburger because cows are too stupid and too ugly
    for any ones good.  But lamb meat?  I really like the taste but they are too
    cute an animal.  When I think about the poor little lamby getting it's
    throat cut, blood squirting all over it's white wool, it just for me, it's
    ridiculous.  But with cows, we also use their hide for leather and almost
    all of their meat (and what we don't gets grinded into cat food, to help
    feed cute kittens).
    Unfortunately, I don't like steak or roast, just hamburgers.

    ---Mychele---

    Message: 56222
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/28/88  Time: 22:42:20

    What about venison?

    Message: 56223
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: David/last
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 07:11:18

    She did forget venison - which that is one of the most cruel things they can
    do to animals. She is right about them using ALL of a steer and if I'm not
    mistaken, they also use all of sheep. I will admit I also have a hang up
    about what I eat - I can't eat a duck! My mother-in-law has them every year
    without fail and I cringe to even see them on the table. If she served them
    with the beak attached I think I'd faint and never go back. Not that I think
    it's more cruel to eat a duck than a chicken but little duckies are my
    favorites of the animal kingdom. But then so are chickens, geese, steers,
    pigs etc. etc. If I ever went to a slaughter house, I'd become a vegetarian
    on the spot no matter how humane they killed them. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56224
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Dean/hospitals
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 07:11:39

    Tell us about it. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56225
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Where the .....
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 07:13:37

    .... heck is everybody? This should be a busy time on Apollo because a lot
    of you are on vacation from school! Zakey baby? Pat?

    Message: 56226
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: In search of
    Subject: kerosene
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 09:09:08

            Does anyone know a good place to get kerosene at?  We need it for a
    space heater.....

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 56227
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 56223/Ann
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 10:07:56

    Venison cruel?  I think you are thinking of veal.

    Message: 56228
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 11:09:36

    Oh, dear.

    Message: 56229
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Chomsky
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 15:50:41

      Similarly, US policy towards Cuba is readily explained by
    the Quality of Life Index of the Overseas Development
    Council, which places Cuba well above any other Latin
    American country and approximately equal to the US - actually
    better than the US if we consider its more egalitarian
    character, thus with lower infant morality rates than Chicago
    and far lower rates than the Navajo reservation.  Tom Farer
    of the Rutgers Law School, member of the Inter-American
    Commission on Human Rights of the OAS and former State
    Department assistant for Inter-American Affairs, writes that:
         ...there is a consensus among scholars of a wide variety
         of ideological positions that, on the level of life
         expectancy, education, and health, Cuban achievement is
         considerably greater than one would expect from its
         level of per capita income.  A recent study of 113 Third
         World countries in terms of these basic indicators of
         popular welfare ranked Cuba first, ahead even of
         Taiwan - which is probably the outstanding example of
         growth with equity within a capitalist economic
         framework.  Data in the 1981 World Development Report of
         the International Bank for Reconstruction and
         Development also support the consensus.  Cuba excelled
         according to all main indicators of human needs
         satisfaction...  What has changed remarkably is not so
         much the gross indicators as those that reflect the
         changed conditions of the poor, particularly the rural
         poor.  In 1958, for example, the one rural hospital in
         the entire country represented about 2 percent of the
         hospital facilities in Cuba; by 1982 there were 117
         hospitals, or about 35 percent of all hospitals in Cuba.
      Furthermore, polio and malaria have been eliminated, and
    the causes of death have shifted from those associated with
    underdevelopment (diseases of early infancy, etc.) to those
    of the developed world (congenital abnormalities, diabetes,
    etc.).  These are the crimes for which Cuba must pay dearly;
    the real ones are of little interest to policy makers, except
    for their propaganda effect.
      As for the NLF in South Vietnam, its crime was explained
    ruefully by the bitterly anti-Communist journalist Denis
    Warner: "in hundreds of villages all over South-East Asia the
    only people working at the grass roots for an uplift in
    people's living standards are the Communists," the reason for
    the popular support that forced the US to resort to violence
    and to undermine any political settlement.
      Those who set their priorities in this way are evidently
    deficient in their understanding of US needs and priorities.
    They have therefore joined the "monolithic and ruthless
    conspiracy," and must be driven into the hands of the Russians
    and subjected to aggression, terror, embargo and other means,
    in accord with their status as "an incident, not an end."

                        End of Chapter 2

    Message: 56232
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 20:00:22

    Anyone that would eat a relative of Bambi has got to have a perverted mind!

    Message: 56233
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Kerosene
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 21:54:23

    Hm, check with BEST Products. I believe they sell bottles of it. Or is that
    propane. Probably propane. Check with Standard Brands. Or Home Depot.

    Message: 56234
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cows
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:06:12

    I know a lot of cows that have a higher IQ than some humans.  Some of them
    are cuter, too.

    Message: 56235
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Me
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:15:53

    I'm back in San Diego.

    Message: 56236
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: You
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:21:42

    Jerk.  You didn't do anything GTish while you were here.

                       Recall Rose!

    Message: 56237
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff / Kerosene
    Date: 12/29/88  Time: 22:34:00

    The best place price wise and availability wise is a place down on
    40th street and just south of Van Buren on the east side of the street.
    You really can't miss them as they have a huge propane storage facility
    there and lots of 55 gallon drums out front.
    Last time we purchased Kero there ( about two months ago) it was still
    $2.65 a gallon.

                            -Mike

    Message: 56238
    Author: Michael Powers
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on animals
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 05:17:35

    That's not the point.  And she's not alone in her views. . .

    Message: 56239
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff/kerosene
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 06:12:40

    Have you tried your local friendly hardware store? Many of them carry the
    stuff, or at least used to.

    Message: 56240
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jim/venison
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 07:02:00

    Your right - I was thinking of veal. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56241
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/Bambi
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 07:05:14

    I've been acused many times of having the 'Bambi Syndrom'! -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. Anyone that would eat a relative of Donald Duck has a perverted mind.
    Anyone eating a relative of Mickey Mouse is sicko.

    Message: 56242
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/karosene
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 07:08:54

    Whitey said to tell you to call 6 Points Hardware on 19th ave. just south of
    Peoria - they might have it - also Home depot. -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. Make sure that heater is well ventilated - they can be dangerous.

    Message: 56243
    Author: Donald Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: THE OPEN DOOR
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 14:44:02

    Have You Tried THE OPEN DOOR Yet !!!!!!!
    Well What Are You Waiting For
    24 HOURS 7 DAYS A WEEK   300/1200/2400/9600
                  FILE AREAS AVAILABLE
      ADULT FILES                      IBM FILES
      Q&A FILES                        ATARI FILES
      GAME FILES                       AMIGA FILES
      DATABASE FILES                   APPLE FILES
      EDUCATIONAL FILES                COMMODORE FILES
                   23 FILE AREAS TOTAL
                  MESSAGE AREAS AVAILABLE
      ADULT AREAS                      Q&A THE DATABASE
      SIERRA GAMES                     SPORTS
      THE KITCHEN                      THEOLOGY
      SOAP OPERA'S                     POLITICS
      PHOTOGRAPHY                      MOVIE REVIEWS
      SOFTWARE REVIEWS                 JOKE AREAS
                    23 MESSAGE AREAS TOTAL
      Outside Areas including rule playing games
      THE OPEN DOOR ..............SysOp DONALD SMITH

        (602) 786-3869         IN CHANDLER

             SysOp Only Area Available

    Message: 56244
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: KOYAANISQATSI
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 16:22:24

    ko-yaa-nis-qatsi (from the Hopi language) n. 1. crazy life.
    2. life in turmoil. 3. life out of balance. 4. life
    disintegrating. 5. a state of life that calls for another way
    of living.

    Translation of the Hopi Prophesies sung in the film
    Koyaanisqatsi:

    "If we dig precious things from the land, we will invite
    disaster."

    "Near the Day of Purification, there will be cobwebs spun
    back and forth in the sky."

    "A container of ashes might one day be thrown from the sky,
    which would burn the land and boil the oceans."

    Message: 56245
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/California
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 21:29:27

      I spent a week and a half learning to work on one of our new computer
    systems and then helped install two of them at the Huntington Beach Police
    Department.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 56246
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 21:32:55

    So killing calves is particularly cruel, but killing babies is OK?

    Message: 56247
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 21:33:35

    Well, my view is that it's OK to kill ugly people.  And I would gather that
    you agree.

    Message: 56248
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Apollo Tips & Tricks
    Subject:  cmd in ain
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 22:00:50

            The  cmd can help you find where to go for service/product.
    In the ain menu enter  and hit return....  If you then hit an <*>
    it will list all the merchants that have advertizement
    space in the  cmd..
    If you wish to search for a particular item or service....type that in, but
    be short as possible in order for it to find your search string.  If you
    want a 'DENTIST'...just type that in... if you want 'Video'.. etc.
    If you typed in 'GUN', you would get three merchants currently listed with
    Apollo that have something to do with GUNs... One is the "United States
    Marksmanship Academy", and then there is "Phoenix Arms" (Good prices on
    reloads and other gun supplies, including Guns), and finely "Dillon
    Precision" manufacturers of loading equipment. (like we use)
            If you do go to any of these people, please tell them Apollo BBS and
    Cliff sent you.
            If you would like an advertisment on Apollo, give me a call.

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 56249
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: quote for the day
    Date: 12/30/88  Time: 23:21:51

    In today's Arizona Republic, from city councilman Paul Johnson:  "I used to
    see prostitution as a victimless crime, but I learned that prostitutes have
    been beaten or (customers [you know he said 'johns']) shot with hypodermic
    needles so that they can be knocked out to be robbed."
       Notice that the clause following "but" provides no support for the
    implied assertion that prostitution is not a victimless crime.  He might
    well have said "I used to see sales as a victimless crime, but I learned
    that shopkeepers have been robbed or customers ripped off."
       But of course, this is the same guy who recently forced a plumbing
    business on north Central (that's been there for about as long as my parents
    have lived in their house in the area, about 17 years) to move because his
    outdoor plumbing displays are "unsightly."  (Actually, the city wants the
    land to be developed for something more lucrative.)

    Message: 56250
    Author: $ Carol Graham
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Just wanta say
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 01:35:57

    I *WISH YOU ALL* a very happy and wonderful New Year!

    And Steve, thanks so much for that story - I loved it - is the writer a
    friend of yours, or what?   MUCHO Talent, there. JT had better watch out.

    Thanks Cliff for a great '88.
    Thanks Dean for a great computer bargain.
    Thanks Jimi for being you.
    Thanks Ann, for being Ann
    Thanks Rod, for becoming a Christian.

    Thanks to the rest of you for bothering to read this!

    Carol->
                   CarolCom's *StarShip* BBS
                   300/1200  24 hrs. 946-4234

    p.s. and thanks, Todd!

    Message: 56251
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Lippard/last
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 06:10:26

    Paul Johnson, in my humble opinion, is a master liar, among other things.
     I talked to him personally to protest using any tax dollars to build Jerry
    Colangelo a downtown stadium for his Phoenix Suns, and stated several very
    valid reasons for my protest. He assured me that he felt the same way I did,
    and would do everything to protect the rights of the taxpayers in this city.
    The very SAME DAY the Phx. Gazoo broke the story that the council had voted
    unanimously to enter into exclusive negotiations with Colangelo for a
    downtown stadium!
     What a jerk! And to think that I voted for him! Oh well. Live and learn.

    Message: 56252
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Carol/last
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 06:12:50

    "Thanks Rod, for becoming a Christian."
    You sond like Abraham. Remember, the guy who called that which was not as
    though it were?

    Message: 56253
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 07:33:29

    Where did I ever say killing babies was alright? If you are talking about
    the abortion issue - that is not killing babies! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56254
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Too all
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 07:45:54

    Have a Happy New Years one and all. See you all next year. -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. Don't drink and drive!

    Message: 56255
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: 88 to 89
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 08:44:10

            Shudder....  another year is about to leave us.  I shudder at the
    thought that soon we will be in the 1990's in one short (and they seem to
    get shorter) year.  But I smile at all the great friends that Sandy and I
    have from this BBS.  We look forward to the New Year with new hopes, and I
    hope you all will be with us next year.  Last year (1988) saw the closing of
    my computer store of 7 years, and there were some very rough times that
    followed.  The New Year looks brighter (can't get any dimmer than this I
    suppose) so lets march onward......

            I hope some of you users quickly renew $tatus here...  we seem about
    to lose a few.

            HAPPY NEW YEAR from the SYSOPs' of Apollo!

    1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989 1989

    bye bye 1988

    Message: 56256
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 10:21:44

    You said that even if abortion is murder, it is OK with you.

    Message: 56257
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 56251/Paul S.
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 12:07:29

    The article in the Republic made it sound like Johnson is trying to get
    himself publicity in taking on various "jobs for a day" because he wants to
    be our next mayor.

    Message: 56258
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Cosmology
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 14:39:04

    From A BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME by Stephen W. Hawking:

      If the universe is indeed spatially infinite, or if there
    are infinitely many universes, there would probably be some
    large regions somewhere that started out in a smooth and
    uniform manner.  It is a bit like the well-known horde of
    monkeys hammering away on typewriters - most of what they
    write will be garbage, but very occasionally by pure chance
    they will type out one of Shakespeare's sonnets.  Similarly,
    in the case of the universe, could it be that we are living
    in a region that just happens by chance to be smooth and
    uniform?  At first sight this might seem very improbable,
    because such smooth regions would be heavily outnumbered by
    chaotic and irregular regions.  However, suppose that only in
    the smooth regions were galaxies and stars formed and were
    conditions right for the development of complicated
    self-replicating organisms like ourselves who were capable of
    asking the question: Why is the universe so smooth?  This is
    an example of the application of what is known as the
    anthropic principle, which can be paraphrased as "We see the
    universe the way it is because we exist."
      There are two versions of the anthropic principle, the
    weak and the strong.  The weak anthropic principle states
    that in a universe that is large or infinite in space and/or
    time, the conditions necessary for the development of
    intelligent life will be met only in certain regions that
    are limited in space and time.  The intelligent beings in
    these regions should therefore not be surprised if they
    observe that their locality in the universe satisfies the
    conditions that are necessary for their existence.  It is a
    bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not
    seeing any poverty.

    continued ...

    Message: 56260
    Author: Mychele Nickels
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Abortion, Veal, etc.
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 15:08:15

    I think that killing even a retarded person is worst than killing most
    animals.  I say most because it might be that dolphins or apes are more
    intelligent than some retarded persons.
    I don't think that I should be able to say that killing some animals or
    humans is "ok".  I was just trying to point out that it is hard to
    rationalize any killing of any animal.  I happen to base it on intelligence
    (and I used cuteness but you MUST know I wasn't making a serious arguement).
    But I don't think there is "one truth" on this issue.

    Message: 56261
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Carol G
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 15:47:37

    Re:  "Thanks Rod, for becoming a Christian."

    Huh?  Did I miss something?

    Message: 56262
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul Johnson
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 15:49:11

    Is he the guy that owns the car garage on 35th Ave?

    Message: 56263
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 15:50:36

    Re:  "Where did I ever say killing babies was alright? If you are talking
    about
    the abortion issue - that is not killing babies!"

    Huh?  Did I miss something?

    Message: 56264
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Nickels
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 15:54:55

    Re:  "I was just trying to point out that it is hard to
    rationalize any killing of any animal."

    Are you a vegetarian?  Isn't it ok to kill an animal for food?  If I had to
    choose between killing a cow and starving, where's the sledge hammer?

    To anyone:
    Do they still kill cows with sledge hammers?

    Message: 56265
    Author: $ Carol Graham
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mychele
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 23:05:37

    Hi...long time no see!

    Have a great New Year

    Message: 56266
    Author: $ Carol Graham
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 23:09:00

    I'm sorry...it was my poor attempt at humor, though I wish it were
    true........have a rainbow year anyways!   You and I never did list how *we*
    could improve this old world, did we?  My intentions were good, but I guess
    that I am limited to the sphere in which I operate (a radius of about 1/4
    mile + BBSing). But if EVERYONE would try in their own 1/4 mile radius
    something would happen, huh?   I didn't mean that I have any effect in my
    little radius, I just meant that I can't handle the rest of the world, for
    sure, so that's where I should begin.

    Shalom->

    Message: 56267
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Quote of the Year...
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 23:21:06

    " Where did I ever say killing babies was alright? If you are talking about
    the abortion issue - that is not killing babies!"

                            -Ann Oudin, Dec 31 1988

    Message: 56268
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/31/88  Time: 23:23:28

    So, Ann, please enlighten us what you would call the practice of taking
    a surgical hook and ripping apart the growing baby inside of the mother's
    womb?

    Trash disposal?

    what do you call the infant inside?

    A parasite ?

    It figures that you wouldn't consider a fetus to be human. AFter all,
    you and Rod both think alike.
                                    -Mike

    Message: 56269
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: 1989
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 00:08:47

    Happy New Year....  Well, you made it!

    133008 callers to date.  The Post Office has delivered 40755 letters since
    the installation of the hard drive (Version 7.0).

    Amazing....  The Clock on Apollo worked... got the year right and
    everything!

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 56270
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: News Today
    Subject: New Year
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 00:33:28

    I guess it is predictable to do so, well anyway...
    Happy New Year!!!
    I hope everyone has a safe, healthy, and productive NEW YEAR!!!
    And best of luck to the Fighting Irish in the Fieasta Bowl, which I will be
    attending!!!
     " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls

    Message: 56271
    Author: Chris Neal
    Category: Question?
    Subject: My $TATU$
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 03:43:56

    Kinda wierd that my $tatu$ expired on new years day? Hmmmm...
     Hmmmmm...
    Hmmmmm...
    Hmmmmm...

    Interesting.....

    Chris

    Message: 56272
    Author: $ Joe Bottomlee
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Ann/life rights
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 04:44:12

    Ann, do you know what veal is? It is the meat of an unborn calf.
    They get this meat by the abortion of a cow's pregancy(sp). I know you think
    that this is terrible. But what I don't understand is why you think the
    abortion of human pregancy(sp) is not wrong.

                                     <<< Joe >>>

    Message: 56273
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 56527/Jim L.
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 05:20:37

    I just hope that when these issues come up that give our tax dollars to
    people like Jerry Colangelo for what should be private investments, we can
    get enough signatures from people who care to force a referendum.
    Personally, I couldn't care less about the Phoenix Suns (or the Cardinals
    for that matter), and I want a vote before a thin dime of my money buys
    either Colangelo or Bidwell a new toy. If either of them want a new house
    for their profiteering, let them build it!

    Message: 56274
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob/Pauljohnson
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 05:25:26

    No. That is Paul J.P.Johnson, a man who has been established in business at
    that location for many years.
    Paul Johnson, the city councilman is a very young man who seems to speak to
    whatever someone wants to hear. At the moment.
    I don't know whether there is any relation, but I do know that the garage at
    least used to be an honest and efficient one. The councilman leaves a lot of
    room for doubt on both issues.

    Message: 56275
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Happy New Year!
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 05:29:16

    To all my friends (and others too!) a very happy and blessed 1989.

    Message: 56276
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Time
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 07:49:37

    Today is just another day.
    Another revolution around the sun. We're back where we started from last
    year.
    Earth is spinning in circles.
    Prices went up.
    City employees now get 8 hours of vacation time per month instead of 7.
    The IRS will start handing out audit slips.
    Whomever won the lottery last night probably doesn't know it yet and wont
    until their hangover fades away.
    Your '88 vehicle just became last years model.
    You will work for the U.S. Government from now until the middle of March.
    Most of us it will be to the end of July.
    The Atmosphere, water and ground will suffer even more dammage this year.
    And Rod williams will still say that God doesn't exist.

    HAPPY NEW YEAR
                    - Mike

    Message: 56277
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:22:22

    That's right - I did say that and still mean it - but I do not believe it is
    murder. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56279
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mychele/killing
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:27:05

    You said it right - there isn't 'One Truth' re: animals and abortions. It's
    a matter of personal opinions. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56280
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob/abortion
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:31:45

    Yeah - you missed it. We had a VERY heated discussion about 6 months ago on
    abortion. Maybe you lucked out missing it - it got pretty vicious. I finally
    backed off because I was afraid of making enemies. I've been on Apollo for
    over 1 1/2 years and don't remember another subject that got so heated up as
    that one. I guess before I got on here, there was one on smoking that got
    real fired up. (pardon the pun). -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56281
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob/sledge
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:32:46

    I think they shoot them with rifles. Does anyone know for a fact what the
    do? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56282
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Joe/calves
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:40:56

    I do not believe that veal is unborn calf. I saw a TV show one time that
    showed the calves in tight, small stalls in completely darken barns - they
    are fed fortified food - kept quiet so they will gain - they are put there
    at a young age and kept there for several months. But if what you say is
    true, then that is certainly much less cruel as the calf dies immediately.
    But I do not think we need veal - let the cattle at least have their
    barnyard space before we use them. Same with chickens etc. etc.
    -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56283
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike/ abortion
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 09:44:21

    Are you trying to start up that subject again? Why? It will have the same
    ending as it did before. It is legal and if it isn't in the future, women
    will still do it. Facts!!!! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 56284
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Chris Neal
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 10:04:02

            Your $tatus was up days ago, but the system always gives you to the
    end of the month....  It was warning you that it was running out every time
    you logged in this past month with a daily countdown.
            Your $tatus profile is intact however...and if you make a quick
    visit to me with the renewal fee, re-activation is a cinch without the loss
    of any data in your file.
            I do hope you renew.... you have been a good active member on here
    for some time now.

    Happy New Years!

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 56285
    Author: Walt Peters
    Category: Bulletins
    Subject: Help!
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 10:42:08

    Would any good soul give me a call to explain how to use the .arc files?
    Walt at 941-5050,  many thanks!

    Message: 56286
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 10:51:25

    Well, then, you do believe that killing babies is OK, or at least you have
    no objection to it in principle.  (Although, I don't think you have much of
    anything in principle.)

    Message: 56287
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Lippard
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 10:51:46

    According to a book I have, Jim Lippard is a kook.

    Message: 56288
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: kook/last
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 10:57:37

    No, he's either a true visionary or a crackpot -- but in either case, he's
    definitely a spoilsport.

    Message: 56289
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: veal
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 11:52:59

    Veal does not come from cow abortions.  It comes from calves raised in small
    cages so that they don't get an exercise (in order to prevent their meat
    from becoming tough).  They are also raised on a special diet.

    Message: 56290
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto/Dog
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 11:55:43

    What JT is probably referring to, and Beau is certainly referring to, is
    Rev. Ivan Stang's book _High Weirdness by Mail_ (1988, Fireside Books),
    available at fine bookstores everywhere.  I'm listed in there somewhere for
    my pamphlet, _Fundamentalism is Nonsense_, which is given a strongly
    positive review (I was pleasantly surprised by the superlatives used).

    Message: 56291
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 15:36:56

    Message: 56275
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Happy New Year!
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 05:29:16

    To all my friends (and others too!) a very happy and blessed 1989.

    Er, Paul, exactly what did you have in mind with that category of "sex"?
    Hmmmmmm?

    Boy, I bet that confuses a lot of people!

    Message: 56292
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Entertainment/Movies
    Subject: Shoot Out GT
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 15:41:40

    I was disapointed I missed the Shoot Out GT (we did have one didn't we?).
    When are we going to have another?  I want to bring out my 3 boys so they
    can see what adults do for fun.  Sad to say I only own a BB gun.  But, we
    can still come can't we?  Bang!  Bang! Shoot em up!!

    Message: 56293
    Author: Chris Neal
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 15:50:03

    I will renew it.  I just thought it was kinda interesting that it happend to
    expire at 12:59:59 on the 31st of December....  Now I know why..  Probably
    be over today....

    Chris

    Message: 56294
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Cosmology
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 17:38:04

      One example of the use of the weak anthropic principle is
    to "explain" why the big bang occurred about ten thousand
    million years ago - it takes about that long for intelligent
    beings to evolve.  As explained above, an early generation of
    stars first had to form.  These stars converted some of the
    original hydrogen and helium into elements like carbon and
    oxygen, out of which we are made.  The stars then exploded as
    supernovas, and their debris went to form other stars and
    planets, among them those of our solar system, which is about
    five thousand million years old.  The first one or two
    thousand million years of the earth's existence were too hot
    for the development of anything complicated.  The remaining
    three thousand million years or so have been taken up by the
    slow process of biological evolution, which has led from the
    simplest organisms to beings who are capable of measuring
    time back to the big bang.
      Few people would quarrel with the validity or utility of
    the weak anthropic principle.  Some, however, go much further
    and propose a strong version of the principle.  According to
    this theory, there are either many different universes or
    many different regions of a single universe, each with its
    own initial configuration and, perhaps, with its own set of
    laws of science.  In most of these universes the conditions
    would not be right for the development of complicated
    organisms; only in the few universes that are like ours would
    intelligent beings develop and ask the question: "Why is the
    universe the way we see it?"  The answer is then simple: If
    it had been different, we would not be here!
      The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain
    many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric
    charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the
    proton and the electron.  We cannot, at the moment at least,
    predict the values of these numbers from theory - we have to
    find them by observation.  It may be that one day we shall
    discover a complete unified theory that predicts them all,
    but it is also possible that some or all of them vary from
    universe to universe or within a single universe.  The
    remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to
    have been very finely adjusted to make possible the
    development of life.  For example if the electric charge of
    the electron had been only slightly different, stars either
    would have been unable to burn hydrogen and helium, or else
    they would not have exploded.  Of course, there might be
    other forms of intelligent life, not dreamed of even by
    writers of science fiction, that did not require the light of
    a star like the sun or the heavier chemical elements that are
    made in stars and are flung back into space when the stars
    explode.  Nevertheless, it seems clear that there are
    relatively few ranges of values for the numbers that would
    allow the development of any form of intelligent life.  Most
    sets of values would give rise to universes that, although
    they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to
    wonder at that beauty.  One can take this either as evidence
    of a divine purpose in Creation and the choice of the laws of
    science or as support for the strong anthropic principle.

    Message: 56297
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Thoughts for Today
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 18:48:16

            Remember folks......it isn't how long ago you were made, it's how
    many times you took off and landed.

            God does not exist and I am NOT a Christian.

            I don't see why people have their minds formatted in one year
    blocks.  Nothing is new and the planet earth is not in the same place that
    it was in last winter.  Yes, in relation to our sun we are basically in the
    same spot but in relation to space, we left that place long ago, never to
    return.
                                    Rod

    *=* Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Williams, Rod

    Message: 58
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last on Sorry
    Date: 12/21/88  Time: 01:06:26

            Don't feel sorry for me... Unlike you, I have a good feeling about
    the future here on earth with Sandy and the after life.
            I feel sorry for you because your outlook on life here and the here
    after is so bleak.  Nothing you post is cheery or even hopeful, and I find
    it sad to see a fellow human in such a downtrodden mode all the time.

    *=* SYSOP Cliff *=*

    Message: 59
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Shit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 01/01/89  Time: 18:49:21

            You're sick!

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