### Apollo BBS Archive - July 20, 1990

    Mail from Apollo SYSOP
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 21:39:05

    Hi Rod
            Are you kidiing about your friend and the auto repo (re:Smitty's)?

    Can I get a copy of the police report please!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:No, I am not kidding about Dwane and altercation with Rankins.  I said it
     2:just as he told me.  However I did not get ANY opportunity to stop by the
     3:lot today to see if he brought it as he said he would.
     4:
     5:Today was shit-kicking busy to say the least.  (and hot).  I worked until
     6:6:30 P.M.
     7:
     8:I will phone the lot tomorrow and see if it is there.

    Mail from Jeff Beck
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:11:48

    Wow...ya mean you used the name *I* suggested?  Geez, I almost feel like a
    godfather.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:{Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Yes, Jasmine liked the name even after she had already picked Sierra.  So
     2:one day I came home and the kids were calling her Katrina.
     3:
     4:You can be a godfather if you give me the southside of Chicago.
     5:
     6:Chow.
     7:
     8:By the way, we must be blowing John's mind somewhat because it seems that he
     9:has suddenly lost interest in the debate.
    10:
    11:But maybe we shouldn't be fooled and just wait and see what happens.
    12:
    13:Jeff L. is the new board philosopher, eh?

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 67674
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Katrina Starr
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:48:53

    That's a nice name, Jeff.  Way to go, Katrina Starr!  Have a good life!

    Rod, you and Jasmine did well in naming the newborn "Katrina Starr".

    Hmmm. Should I name a kid "Katrina Starr"?

    (There's $1 for you, Jeff.)

    Message: 67675
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 20:58:46

    Ok, I'll try.

    Message: 67676
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Guest List
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 21:36:22

    Ann Oudin
    Beauregard Dog
    Bill Burkett
    Bob Thornburg
    Daryl Westfall (unsure)
    Gordon Little
    James Hawley
    Jeff Beck
    Jeff Lochansky (Mad-Max)
    Jim Lippard
    Kim Paskiewicz
    Melissa Dee
    (( space ))
    Mike Carter  (Fang)
    (( space ))
    Mike Kielsky
    Pat Stoddard
    Paul Savage
    Ralph Blehm
    Rod Williams
    Roger Mann  (Ok, I'll try)
    Shirley Bear
    Steven Carls
    Todd Reese                      And just maybe Jack Flash  (hope)

    Message: 67677
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: birthday
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 22:10:47

    Well rod, then next year I'll wish her an other year of health....darn are
    you complicated!!!!!!
    What did you think? I'd let her get sick or what?
    He won't let me give more then one year of health to one person at one time.
    (just kidding)
    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 67678
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GT
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 22:12:17

    Do we have to bring anything?
    I really don't know, some people get offended if you do and some if you
    don't. So I figured I'd ask to be safe.
    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 67679
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/Birth
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 22:56:13

    Good to hear of someone following their own common sense (about the milk)
    instead of swallowing a load of guff from self-appointed "experts".

    In Massachusetts, where Sarah was born, I believe I'm right in saying that
    midwives actually are prohibited from operating independently.  There has to
    be a doctor overseeing the procedure.  Needless to say, the overwhelming
    majority of doctors aren't interested in running a flock of midwives and
    would rather have the business themselves.

    I'm not surprised Jasmine found that "somehow it was always easier at home
    than at the hospital".  With a normal uncomplicated birth, it is bound to be
    easier for a woman to do something herself that she is perfectly competent
    to do, with *support* (that's people just helping and encouraging her)
    rather than *intervention* (read "interference").

    It's a pity more men haven't been involved in this stuff in the past,
    because most guys wouldn't dream of putting up with the kind of interference
    and paternalism women have historically gotten from many doctors.  A guy
    would tell the fellow to go take a running jump.  Only most guys were
    content to leave it all to someone else.  I remember flying to Phoenix with
    some guy who was taking a three-month job out here, leaving his wife at home
    to have a baby.  His comment was "well, I figure women are better at doing
    that stuff than men are".  Actually he was right, they are, but try telling
    the doctors that!

    Message: 67680
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: GT/Mad Max
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 00:25:38

            No, just bring yourself....  Tom R. Slone (The original TRS-80 BBS)
    has everything.    No fooling and no kidding...   We just want you to have
    some fun (Don't tell Roger)....

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67681
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: baby's name
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:16:01

    Well, I'm glad you liked the name *Katrina* so much that you decided to use
    the name *Katrina* to name your baby, *Katrina* (or Kat, for short).

    I'll collect the seventy-five cents at the GT.

    Message: 67682
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beau Dog
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:18:41

    Well, I can only take credit for the Katrina, in Katrina Starr.  But I
    really like the Starr in Katrina Starr, so I feel that my contribution,
    though partial, in naming Katrina Starr, was helpful, in my attempt to
    suggest a name (Katrina) for Katrina Starr.

    Let's see...that's $3.50 so far...

    Message: 67683
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff L./GT
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 01:20:16

    Yes, condoms; lots of 'em.

    Message: 67684
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: ANN!
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 06:08:11

     "It was of course, a fluke on Paul's team part!"
    A fluke? A FLUKE????
     It was called superior playing, that's what it was! Now admit it!
    Sheesh! What a sore loser!
    (smile, of course)

    Message: 67685
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Me
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 09:44:25

    Thanks to all for the birthday wishes.  It's nice to feel loved.
    (Leave it, Jeff)
    Why should I have waited until the 25th, Rod?
    I like the name as well.  I wont mention it since I am currently unemployed
    and don't feel like giving my money to charity.

    Message: 67686
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: computer talk
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 11:44:44

    I've been working with computers for the past 32 years (not bragging) and
    have always been amused by the names and sounds gived to various symbols
    computer people use in everyday talk.

    For Example, the file path and filename
         ^MOD400>SID>CLM_NET
    was once pronounced by someone I knew as
    "Hat Mod 400 arrow sid arrow clam underbar net."

    another symbol used in various mainframe editors I've worked on is the
    exclamation point (!) commpnly pronounced "Bang."

    I`ve heard the asterisk called a "Splat."

    Anyway, today I ran into the computer poe}im in the next post today and
    wanted to share it:

    Message: 67687
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Computer talk
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 11:46:08

    From Brian Silverio, Bull HN Computer Techniques Billerica MA 7/17/90.

    Subject:   A poem to brighten your day
         The following poem is excerpted from Lee Leitner's "Viewpoint" column
    which is featured in a bimonthly periodical for Prime INFORMATION users
    called INFOCUS magazine. The original authors were Fred Bremmer and Steve
    Kroese of Calvin College & Seminary of Grand Rapids, MI.

    (FYI - a "wahka" is the decidedly "proper" (by popular vote) name for the
    characters ">" and "<".)

    To wit, it is -   "...a poem we think is about the lowly wahka. Maybe.
    Well,   perhaps---we're really not sure what the poem actually is about.
    Here it goes:"

        "WAHKA"                       ( Transliterated: )

        <>!*''#              Waka waka bang splat tick tick hash,
        ^@`$$-               Caret at back-tick dollar dollar dash,
        !*'$_                Bang splat tick dollar under-score,
        %*<>#4               Percent splat waka waka number four,
        &)../                Ampersand right-paren dot dot slash,
        |{~~SYSTEM HALTED    Vertical-bar curly-bracket tilde tilde CRASH!

    Message: 67688
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gary/poem
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 12:05:44

    Thanks for the poem ! One question though. Why is <> waka waka instead
    of waka akaw or waka kawa or some such.

    Message: 67689
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mod400 !!!
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:09:37

    Lessee... Gary Jones, Roger Mann, Gordon Little, and I all know about these
    arcane systems... how strange!

    Gary, are you Phoenix-area?  If so, are you coming to the GT?

    Message: 67690
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Heatwave!!!
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:24:10

    From the Repugnant today:  HEAT WAVE TURNS BRITONS JOLLY MAD.

         A hot and unusually dry summer has Britons choking on pollution,
         swatting insects and snitching on their water-wasting neighbors.

         Joggers and the elderly have been warned to avoid strenuous exercise.

         Hordes of biting insects are plaguing everybody.

         A pharmacist said that "the shop is full of people complaining about
         the heat and saying that they are being bitten to death."

         A ban on watering gardens and washing cars begins Saturday; neighbors
         who spot people doing either can report suspects to local authorities,
         who can impose fines.

         But it wasn't until a visitor lost his temper and punched an attendant
         in Oxford's world-famous Botanical Garden, "a place considered only
         slightly less sacred than a church in England", that the seriousness of
         the heat wave became apparent to all.

    And now for the punch line:

         Temperatures have been in the 80s on seven of the past eight days.

    Message: 67691
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:26:07

    I might be harping on this birth subject a bit, but last night there was a
    *heck* of a coincidence.

    I'd just finished entering that last post to you, logged off Apollo, and sat
    down to look at the Repugnant.  Just five minutes later, I found an article
    about a woman named Suzanne Arms who was visiting Scottsdale.  She has been
    campaigning for better childbirth options, and in particular the issue you
    raised -- breastfeeding.

    When faced with a situation calling for skills, participation, and perhaps
    decisions, I usually think it's a good idea to get educated on whatever the
    topic is.  So seven years ago when we found out Jane was pregnant, one of my
    earliest reactions was to wander downstairs into the den and see what books
    we might have on the subject of pregnancy, childbirth, babies and children.
    Though they were a bit thin on the ground, there was something.  (I also
    have a book on CB radios, though I've never owned one, and a couple on UFOs,
    though I've never seen one.)  The "library" consisted of (1) Spock's classic
    "Baby and Child Care", (2) a Swedish book on fetal development with some
    mrvelous photos, titled "A Child is Born", and (3) a book called "Immaculate
    Deception", by that same Suzanne Arms.  I'd never read it before, but I read
    it then.  I credit her book chiefly with forewarning and forearming us about
    the nature of childbirth in America as it was in the early 70s (it has
    changed somewhat since), and giving us the information we needed to make the
    right decisions about a once-in-a-lifetime (so far, for us) event.

    Message: 67692
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Smitty's
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 19:28:29

    It was interesting to hear the account of Ric Rankins's behavior in another
    situation where he threatened someone with deadly force.  Interesting, and
    well worth reading; but it shouldn't change anybody's opinions about the
    case.

    The account *ought* to dispose of those people who have attacked Smitty's
    based on the ill-considered emotional view that Rankins is some kind of
    heroic martyr.  I don't know if it will, because there will be plenty within
    the black community to argue that Rankins pulled a gun to "defend himself
    against persecution", or some such dialectic.  I did, however, drive past
    that Smitty's today and I noticed there weren't any pickets there.

    The account *may* make some people say "See?  He was a dangerous criminal,
    so he deserved what he got."  If they say that, they would be exonerating
    the Smitty's people for the wrong reason.  Negligent homicide is certainly
    justifiable on the grounds of selg/defense, but not on the simple grounds
    that somebody is an undesirable human being.

    What the account *does* do is add further credibility to the assertion that
    Rankin threatened the Smitty's employees.  But I don't think this assertion
    needs much bolstering.  Several witnesses are in broad agreement that he
    threatened to kill somebody, and specifically that he shouted "Give me the
    gun", or something very like it.  That isn't in dispute.

    To me the issue is, and always has been, confined to what happened in the
    few minutes between the time the altercation began and the time it ended
    with the arrival of police.  The crucial question is whether this man
    presented a deadly threat in the minds of the Smitty's employees AT THE TIME
    THAT THEY SET ON HIM.  Not previously, but actually at the time.

    If the answer is yes, then they were justified in going into panic mode to
    counter the threat.  I still think a company should be responsible for
    proper training of employees expected to do "security" work -- like teaching
    them *not* to use the bar lock on the neck, which can be fatal.  But at
    least the employees did the best they knew how in the circumstances, and you
    can't ask more than that.

    But if the answer is no, as it could be if Rankins was clearly trying to
    *leave* the scene when he was set upon, we effectively have a case of people
    trying to detain and "punish" him for a *previous* threat that no longer
    existed; and this is not "self defense".

    It has been suggested that they were trying to stop him from fleeing the
    "scene of a crime"; effectively a citizen's arrest.  But that was not their
    intent, not to begin with at least, because Marvin Davis, the store manager,
    stated that his reason for following Rankin outside was to tell him they
    didn't want him coming back.

    Up to now, most accounts printed in the Republic, when carefully examined,
    have tended to support the "punishment after the event" scenario.  This view
    was indicated by Wednesday's summary of the police report, in which Rankins,
    after yelling for his gun and threatening to kill somebody, appeared to have
    changed his mind and was sitting in the cab urging the cab driver to drive
    away when the employees intervened to *stop* the cab and drag him out.  This
    view was reinforced by several points in other accounts, including
    allegations that the employees made references to "kicking [Rankins's] ass"
    and threatened another bystander.

    However, in today's account the plot thickens.  The manager Davis states
    that Rankins did not appear to be trying to leave, but to be trying to get a
    gun from the back seat; that only Rankins's body was inside the cab door,
    with his feet on the ground outside; and that the driver started the cab by
    accident by letting his foot off the brake.

    If this turns out to be true, Davis's and the other employees' actions would
    seem a lot more reasonable, so I might have to eat Smitty's cake after all.
    The accounts printed in the newspaper are clearly conflicting.  What strikes
    me is that if Davis is saying this now, then it ought to be in the police
    report.  And if it is in the police report, then it ought to have been
    reflected in the newspaper account published on Wednesday.

    These are two separate "oughts", and there is not only a question about
    which account is true, but also about which side the Republic is on and
    whether the newspaper has accurately reflected what the police report said,
    or whether it has expertly fueled a continuing controversy.  I hope we can
    get the text of that police report posted on this board, or at least the
    most relevant excerpts.

    I'd have to agree with Rod that crime won't go away without some basic
    changes in society.  However, I doubt that certain classes of people will
    stop stealing, or using violence on others, because they get lots of
    financial handouts.  I do think people "learn" that violence is justified
    when they experience violence always being used to solve problems that could
    be solved in other ways.  That's why we are justified in taking steps to
    deter people from being the first to use unnecessary violence in a
    confrontation, or from being the first to escalate a trivial aggression (a
    push, an insult) into something much more serious.

    Message: 67696
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: sines
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 20:30:23

    I don't have the foggiest intuitive notion of where the sine function comes
    from.  I understand that it can be represented in various ways, for example,
    given a real number s representing an arc on a unit circle, a second
    coordinate of T is given to the terminal point of the arc, representing sine
    s.  But so what?  What is the meaning of the sine function?  How did it
    originate and for what purpose?

    Message: 67697
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Melissa/cheek
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 20:33:48

    Who do you think I am, Benny Hill?

    BTW, if I told you you had a beautiful body, would you hold it against me?

    Now you're supposed to ask me how I found the little native girl in the tall
    grass.

    Message: 67698
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GT
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:21:05

    I checked the user log this evening and lo and behold there was Dean
    Hathaway's name.  I'll bet he will come to GT.

    Melissa said that she though Peter Petrisko had something going that night
    at his Gallery X, located at 800 W. Madison in beautiful downtown Phoenix.

    Well, I am supposed to be in a musical play around that time at Gallery X.
    I haven't checked the date but I called Peter this evening and he was
    neither at home or work.

    Message: 67699
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon/babies
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:29:22

    I enjoyed your posts on child birth.  If people only knew the advantages to
    breast feeding their babies, oh my.

    Breast feeding not only helps the baby but the mother as well.  Everytime
    the baby sucks, the tummy of the mother is pulled in.  Jasmine has had 8
    children and has always breast fed for at least a year and has always had a
    flat tummy.

    So many women have told me that they wouldn't breast feed because they
    didn't want to ruin their shape.  Little do they realize  that by not breast
    feeding they are ruining their shape.  Oh well.

    Also, I have never had to get up in the middle of the night to feed a child,
    to heat the formula, to walk aimlessly around holding junior and all of the
    other gross things that go with it.

    Instead, Jasmine pulls the baby to her breast and all have a peaceful sleep.
    She is well aware that a small baby is near and not to roll over onto it.

    The perfect nipple is on the females breast and its shape and resistance
    factor will help mold the babies face for later life.

    I'll just bet that Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones was not breast fed.
    And neither was the rest of his band from the looks of that motley crew.

    Message: 67700
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:32:13

    It's just a neat date, that's all.

    Actually dear, dates are just made up and do not really repeats its
    former actions in this universe of ours.

    The VERY FIRST July 25th was in fact the only July 25th that ever existed.
    The rest were just copies and are solely for communication purposes.

    About being unemployed:  Pray for war.

    Message: 67701
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon/Smittys
    Date: 07/20/90  Time: 22:42:30

    I can agree with what you say.  But just as the only way to stop harmful
    drug use is education it is the same for theft and violence.

    If you can show a person that stealing something will always result in
    higher prices for everyone then that is a good start.  All I hear is "steal
    something and you go to jail".

    I see the large Israel style Kibbutz as the answer to many of our problems.
    As World Peace is becoming more of a possibility so are mass lay-offs of
    employees who work in defense plants and the like.

    Something has to be done to solve the homeless problem.  If you would like
    to see what the homeless look like and talk like then come to Peter's
    Gallery X for one of his many openings.  Call 420-9390 for a list of his
    next opening.  It is a recording, unless he is there and decides to answer
    the phone.

    It would appear that with mass layoffs the homeless situation will worsen.

    I guess the quick 10 minute profit idea of U.S. corporations looks silly
    when compared to the Japanese way.
    @ATDT2461432
    A/ BUSY

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