### Apollo BBS Archive - December 12, 1991

    Mail from James Hawley
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 00:29:32

    Good messages, dude.  Don't cut up your credit card, give it to me!

    By the way, I now have a person on my mailing list named Charles Williams?
    He has a speach impediment, maybe a twin taken away at birth?
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:Charles was the 'gay' one.  We had him shipped out after being caught
     2:swallowing.  To bad though cause he had nice buttocks.
     3:
     4:I are awfully fucking, too damn busy.  I thought we were having a recession.
     5:Today seemed like the old hell that I've grown accustomed to.
     6:
     7:Let's manufactur a new product, something that is eaten like a snack and
     8:would be 'pussy' flavored.  We could have black pussy, Mexican pussy and
     9:young white girl pussy snacks.  Whadda you think.  Let's hit the lab.
    10:
    11:Thanks for your input about the messages.
    12:
    13:                                Rod

    Mail from Pete Fischer
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 23:19:03

    Glad you enjoyed the Videos so much. Unfortunately I couldn't make it to
    Video night this time around. I have not even seen the Video that I am in. I
    tried to see it last night, but he couldn't find the thing. Adios, Pete

    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:At first I thought it was only an actor protraying you but then I realized
     2:that nobody else could look that much like you.
     3:
     4:Work is hell.

    Main Menu command:U

    $ Rod        Williams   20:54:35 (1200)
    $ Rod        Williams   20:53:55 (1200)
    $ Beauregard Dog        20:28:09 (2400)
    $ Beauregard Dog        19:52:43 (2400)
    $ Melissa    Dee        19:41:59 (2400)
      James      Matlock    18:44:09 (1200)
      Rusty      Hostel     18:22:58 (1200)
      Steve      Stroblas   17:31:00 (2400)
      Jared      Clarke     16:35:42 (2400)
    $ Felix      Cat        14:09:28 (2400)
    $ Archi      Medes      13:10:49 (1200)
    $ Green      Lantern    13:03:24 (1200)
    $ Gordon     Little     12:15:21 (2400)
    $ Fred       Smith      12:09:09 (2400)
    $ Fred       Smith      10:56:00 (2400)
    $ Fred       Smith      10:55:14 (2400)
    $ Ann        Oudin      10:00:37 (2400)
    $ Green      Lantern    08:27:47 (1200)
    $ Melissa    Dee        08:03:20 (2400)
    $ Fred       Smith      07:41:48 (2400)
    $ Mike       McNeill    06:06:18 (2400)
    $ Don        Hicks      06:02:53 (1200)
    $ Paul       Savage     05:51:13 (1200)
    $ Joe        Bottomlee  04:29:51 (1200)
    $ Nick       Ianuzzi    04:10:23 (2400)
      Bob        Peters     04:00:05 (2400)
    $ Gordon     Little     03:29:53 (2400)
    $ Mike       Carter     03:10:00 (2400)
    $ Joe        Bottomlee  00:37:23 (1200)
    $ James      Hawley     00:29:10 (2400)

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 8743
    Author: $ Joe Bottomlee
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: This N That
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 00:47:14

    Hope everyone misses me while I'm gone to Houston. I leave this morning, for
    a week. I notice there has not been much going on this SIG the last few
    days. I know I haven't post anything lately. I've been busy with many of my
    personal projects. I finish my computer course at GCC yesterday. I was under
    the gun, because I was not going to get another extension. BTW I turn 44 on
    the 10th. It's strange, but in my mind's view still thing of my self as
    being in my early 20's.

                     <<< Joe >>>

    Message: 8744
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Early 20's
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 08:02:04

    Thinking of oneself as having ceased to age in the early 20's seems to be
    fairly common.  I feel the same way.  My mental picture of myself i
    much closer to when I was in college then anything else.  Even many people
    well over 60 still think of themselves as in their 20's and 30's.  Of
    course, when I wake up all stiff in the morning it takes a few minutes to
    get the 20's mental picture in focus again!!

    Message: 8745
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Early 20's
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 08:04:27

    I often feel about 16.

    Message: 8746
    Author: $ Felix Cat
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Fred
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 14:16:08

    Re:  Thinking of oneself as having ceased to age in the early 20's seems to
    be fairly common.  I feel the same way.

    I think it's called being "young at heart."

    Message: 8747
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Feeling young
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 20:30:09

    Naaaah, it's just how you old farts handle imminent death.

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Feeling young or old

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:Yesterday I was 63 and today I was 14.  Time DOES NOT exist.  I think, if
     2:all goes well, that tomorrow I'll either be 8 or 10.
     3:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 8748

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:JN

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press [A] to abort

    Message: 5239
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Fred/prejudice
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 03:06:13

    Granted that "prejudice" means literally nothing more than a judgment formed
    without an adequate assessment of all the facts.  However, the word
    "prejudice" (or its Latin equivalent) has been used in a pejorative sense
    ever since Roman times.  Certainly if you told yourself that a 20-year-old
    car is *likely* to have some defect making it unsafe at high speed, you'd be
    making a judgment based on previous (and not necessarily broad) experience
    of old cars, rather than on the actual condition of this particular car.
    You will be exercising caution, perhaps unnecessary caution, by driving it
    extra carefully.  The point is, you won't be doing anything wrong or unfair.

    For a very long time, the word "prejudice" has had a moral dimension
    inextricably associated with it in people's minds.  The word denotes "prior
    judgment", but it connotes "unfairness".  The implication is that the "prior
    judgment" was used in place of a careful assessment of the facts, in
    situations where one *ought* to have made a careful assessment of the facts.

    Self-delusion is admittedly a step further than just neglecting to examine
    the facts.  But when it comes to "prejudice" against minority groups -- if
    we say  the defendant probably *is* a thief because he's black -- everyone's
    had ample opportunity to examine whether all black people are thieves, and
    heard lots of people telling them "it's wrong to be prejudiced".  So if
    somebody insists on clinging to their prior judgment in the face of the
    facts, or if they deliberately don't examine the facts when they ought to, I
    think they're deluding themselves to protect their prejudice.

    Message: 5240
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Gordon L/Predjudice
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 14:59:35

    I agree that the use of the term prejudice is almost always in a negative
    sense but was trying to point out that that is not the complete definition
    of the term.  I would quibble somewhat with part of what you said.  You
    said, as part of your setup, "...the defendant probably *is* a thief because
    he's black..." as an example of people assuming ALL blacks are thieves.  But
    if you go back to your own statement and examine what you really said, not
    what you apparently thought you said, you see that you correctly used the
    modifier "Probably".  My point being, if you are confronted with the need to
    make an assesement of whether a person is or is not a thief the facts are
    that for some specific geographic and demographic groups there is a much
    greater probability that a black would be a thief then a Caucasian would.
    It is simply a statistical fact of life.  It is no different then the fact
    that there is a profile that the "authourities" have developed that they use
    to try and spot terrorists or drug dealers in airports.  They have examined
    the past and figured out the probablities of who is and who isn't likely to
    be in the targeted class.

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Cosmos-Chatter

    Subject:Thief

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:More downtrodden people tend to steal.  More blacks are downtrodden
     2:therefore more blacks steal.  It isn't because of one's color that makes
     3:them a thief, it is more of their position in the social order.
     4:
     5:Those lowest on the pecking order exhibit different qualities than the
     6:higher ones.  The higher ones can legally steal while the lower ones can
     7:also but will go to jail if caught.
     8:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 5241

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:JN

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* Public Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Public Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press [A] to abort

    Message: 80449
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Down with Bush...
    Date: 12/10/91  Time: 17:44:17

            I believe we ALL should 'fire' Bush.  I am disappointed in his
    handling of U.S. economy, his failure to keep his "Read my lips" promise and
    his unsure stand on 2nd Amendment rights, just to name a few.

            At this time I am putting my support behind Pat Buchanan (A true
    conservative Republican) for President.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- fire them ALL!

    Message: 80450
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Public Appearance
    Date: 12/10/91  Time: 19:15:49

    Oliver North will be autographing his new biography _Under Fire: An American
    Story_ on Wed., Dec. 11, 1991 at 11am at Books, Etc. 901 S. Mill Ave, Tempe
    Center, Tempe, 967-1111

    (As I type this, he is autographing at Houle Books, 36 E. Camelback Rd.
    Phoenix, until 9pm)

    Message: 80451
    Author: $ Felix Cat
    Category: Entertainment/Movies
    Subject: Gordon
    Date: 12/10/91  Time: 19:33:30

    Re:  I spent this afternoon nourishing my spiritual self instead (along with
    my family), by attending the First Assembly of God's Christmas Celebration.

    We got tickets to go see it this Thursday night.

    Message: 80452
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Sysop/Bush
    Date: 12/10/91  Time: 21:11:40

    I like Pat, but president ??? I think he is trying to force Bush back into
    the right. That, IMO, is futile.

    Message: 80453
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Beau/Ox.-Duden
    Date: 12/10/91  Time: 21:42:13

    Lessee...number 149 is called "Machine Tools I" and consists of 15 pictures
    with 72 parts labeled.  Numbers 238 and 239 are "Broadcasting (Radio and
    Television)" parts I and II respectively.  Number 240 is "Broadcasting III
    (Television Engineering) and number 241 is "Music Systems (Audio Systems)".

    Generally, these picture dictionaries are not at their best when dealing
    with high-technology.  All of mine, in varying degrees, are closer to a
    museum brochure than a catalogue of contemporary items.  This is only a
    slight exaggeration: the Oxford-Duden for example was published in 1981, at
    least the text was; the pictures are copyrighted 1979.  Plenty of
    reel-to-reel tapes, no CD players.

    Message: 80454
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beau/dictionary
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 03:08:09

    The dictionary I have gives the names of objects in both English and French.
    So you can use it to translate from one language to the other.  As long as
    the word is a concrete noun, that is.  I have yet to find the French word
    for "exacerbate" or "antidisestablishmentarianism" in this dictionary.

    Message: 80455
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James/counterfeit
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 03:10:08

    Tungsten would be a lot nearer the mark.  The color is wrong, but that's
    easily fixed with a thin coating of gold.  The chief difficulty with
    tungsten is that it's extremely refractory and very hard to work; but
    obviously it can be done.  And the price is right.

    This leads to the question of whether we could add any more bells and
    whistles to our counterfeit-detecting machine that would still distinguish
    (e.g.) a tungsten coin from a gold one, based on other physical properties
    of the metals.  It would be easy enough to tell a tungsten coin from a gold
    one just by trying to cut it in half, but for practical purposes the test
    would have to be nondestructive.  So can we think of any other properties
    that could be readily measured?  Electrical conductivity is one, but I think
    you'd need an extremely sensitive instrument to tell the difference in
    conductivity between a gold coin and a tungsten-cored one.  A poor contact
    on the outside could mask the difference between the two.  Induction
    perhaps?  How about transparency to X-rays?  They must both be pretty
    opaque.  It would also add to the cost and complexity of the machine.

    Message: 80456
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Parachute joke
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 03:16:33

    This is an amazing coincidence.  Although this was an old joke (another guy
    I know had heard it years ago), it happened that I'd never heard it before;
    and now I've heard it twice in three days.  A guy was making a presentation
    at a business meeting today, and he started right off by telling that joke.
    His version had a different dramatis personae, but it was exactly the same
    story.

    So does this tell us something about the mysterious way jokes circulate in
    the population?  Or is it just that somebody told it on TV recently?

    Message: 80457
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: counterfeiting
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 04:08:51

    The purchase of the machinery necessary to make the dies for the coins would
    probably attract a bit of attention.

    Would tungsten have the same resonant characteristics as gold?  In other
    words, would dropping a tungsten based coin produce the same sound as the
    original gold coin?

    Message: 80458
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Beau/Judgement
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 05:08:04

     I don't have time to look up the quote online, but it is as I have
    said."Judge not, lest ye be judged." The remainder says something to the
    effect that we will be judged in the same manner in which we judge others.
     I'm not sure that I understand your question, if it was a question. We will
    ALLstand before God one day. He is the final judge, and the only one to whom
    judgement is reserved. It is simply not up to us to judge another.

    Message: 80459
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Fred
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 05:13:12

    Really, Fred, your argument is not with me. It is with God, so why don't you
    take it up with Him? Every disagreement we have had to date has been as a
    result of your disbelief in God's Word. You seem to think that the Bible is
    a bunch of gobbledegook written by men, and I believe it to be the complete,
    perfect and unequivacable Word of Almighty God. If the basis of all our
    disagreement is as unresolvable as this seems to be, what's the point in
    continuing? Neither of us is about to convince the other of much of
    anything. There are quite a few things on which we are in agreement. Let's
    stick to those.

    Message: 80460
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Nick/DING!
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 13:40:58

    Resonance sounds like a very good idea.  It occurred to me that the
    coefficient of elasticity must be very different between gold and tungsten,
    even though they're the same density.  Tungsten, unlike gold, is very hard
    and tough.  If you tried to bend both coins, you could soon tell the
    difference, but the test has to be nondestructive.  You *could* measure very
    small distortions resulting from the application of a more moderate force,
    but that would take much more sensitive equipment.

    It would have to make a difference in the resonant frequency, though.  I'm
    sure if you struck a tungsten coin it would go DING, and if you struck a
    gold coin it would go DONK.

    Message: 80461
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: CLiff/Pat B
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 14:33:12

    How do you spell "lost cause"??

    Message: 80462
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Politics
    Subject: B Dog/O North
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 14:34:00

    Was that an Endorsement??

    Message: 80463
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gold Coins
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 14:40:28

    Has anyone considered the amount of "money", "wealth" or "true value",
    however you want to think of it, we would be tying up in our coins if we
    were to use gold coins for currency.  Or the time that would be wasted
    makeing sure that we weren't taking in counterfeits -- think of the overhead
    involved even a simple cash transaction????!!!  Also consider that gold is
    rarely used in pure form in jewelry because it is so soft - that is why it
    is usually alloyed, most commonly to 14K (58% gold, not exactly pure).  It
    seems to me that it would be extremely unlikely that anyone would ever use a
    true gold coin as currency which makes the likelyhood of counterfeiting much
    greater due to the greater ease of counterfeiting alloyed coins.

    Message: 80464
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 14:48:44

    You are quite off the mark.  My comments to you concerning you continuing
    statements of judgment have nothing to do with my belief or disbelief in the
    bible.  For purposes of THIS discussion I am perfectly willing to accept the
    bible exactly as YOU want to interpet it.  That will change NOTHING about
    the fact that you are judgeing people.  Are you going to tell me that you
    have NO opinion about David Duke?  NO opinions about George Bush?  NO
    opinons about the Pope??  NO opinions about Me???  You can't form opinions
    about things or people without making judgments about them.  To quote just a
    small part of the definition of Judgement => "The capacity to form an
    opinion...to make sound and reasonable decisions....something, as an opinion
    or estimate...an apprasial or opinion....."

    Message: 80465
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: guys/counterfeiting
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 20:11:07

    I know that tungsten is ordinarily brittle at room temperatures, but that it
    can be made malleable and ductile by mechanical working at higher
    temperatures.  What effect this would have on the accoustic properties of
    the metal, I don't know.  I'm just guessing, but I would think that once it
    had been processed to the point where it could be drawn out into fine wire
    spools and bent into eccentric shapes (*after* cooling) , its coefficient of
    elasticity would be much closer to gold's than raw tungsten's would.
    Whether a counterfeit coin would nevertheless sound the same as a real one,
    when dropped, is probably something which would require empirical
    investigation, though I tend to think that one dull thunk is much the same
    as another, at least to the human ear, using a crude drop-test.

    The question of using other properties to distinguish between them is an
    interesting one.  My flu (or whatever it is) tends to discourage diligent
    research, but if a small effort reveals anything of interest, I'll let you
    know.

    Fred: good point.

    Message: 80467
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: analysis
    Date: 12/11/91  Time: 23:45:56

    Assuming that the ordinary sound test wouldn't prove anything, the most
    practical method I can think of might involve a similar test using
    high-energy ultrasonic waves.  I know that ultrasound is used to detect
    stress cracks and flaws in things like steel girders, by passing the wave
    through the metal and noting "accoustic shadows" with a detector placed on
    the other side. While this might not tell much about the composition of the
    metal, it might reveal patterns characteristic of the plating process used
    to cover the tungsten core with gold; that is, depending on the plating
    process used, it might be possible to use ultrasound to detect plating in
    general.  Then again, I'm really just speculating, and have no idea whether
    this is realistic.  It would be fairly expensive, but certainly
    non-destructive.

    Another possibility is the use of fluorescent chemicals.  The coin might be
    dipped in a bath of non-destructive liquid which is invisible in visible
    light.  It would be absorbed by micro-cracks which would then shine
    brilliantly under ultraviolet light.  Of course, ordinary coins would
    also demonstrate flaws, but it is possible that plated coins would display a
    different, characteristic pattern.
    Incidentally, I broke open an incandescent bulb and examined the tungsten
    filament.  It was quite elastic.  Does anyone know whether pure tungsten is
    used or whether a tungsten compound is used?  (Disclaimer: if you decide to
    try this, remember to wrap the bulb in thick cloth before you break it: the
    implosion could send flying glass bits into your eyes.)

    Message: 80468
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Tungsten filaments
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 03:45:51

    Tungsten filaments are not only extremely fine, but they're usually coiled.
    In fact, at least one manufacturer in the past said that his filaments were
    a coiled coil.  So I'd expect the filament to stretch very easily, since
    it's like a very fine spring.

    I'd suspect that the tungsten used in light bulb filaments is fairly pure,
    because a major reason for using it is its very high melting point.  This is
    assuming that an appreciable quantity of other metals would lower the
    melting point of the alloy.

    Message: 80469
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: For sale
    Subject: Xmas Toy suggestion
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 03:47:06

                                 HAPPY FUN BALL(R)
                                  -only $14.95-
    CAUTION: HAPPY FUN BALL(R) may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
    WARNING: Pregnant women, the elderly, and children under 10 should avoid
    prolonged exposure to HAPPY FUN BALL(R).  HAPPY FUN BALL(R) contains a
    liquid core which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched,
    inhaled, or looked at.  Do not use HAPPY FUN BALL(R) on concrete.
    Discontinue use of HAPPY FUN BALL(R) if any of the following occurs:
        dizziness, vertigo, itching, tingling in extremities, loss of balance or
        coordination, slurred speech, temporary blindness, profuse sweating, or
        heart palpitations.
    If HAPPY FUN BALL(R) begins to smoke, get away immediately.  Seek shelter
    and cover head.
    HAPPY FUN BALL(R) may stick to certain types of skin.
    When not in use, HAPPY FUN BALL(R) should be returned to its special
    container and kept under refrigeration.  Failure to do so relieves the
    makers of HAPPY FUN BALL(R), Wacky Products Incorporated and its parent
    company Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.
    Ingredients of HAPPY FUN BALL(R) include an unknown glowing substance which
    fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.  HAPPY FUN BALL(R) has been
    shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our
    warplanes on Iraq.  Do not taunt HAPPY FUN BALL(R).
                 HAPPY FUN BALL(R) comes with a lifetime guarantee.
                     HAPPY FUN BALL(R).  ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!           [Anon]

    Message: 80470
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Fred
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 05:55:00

    OK. You win. I judge people according to the definition you presented. Also,
    according to that same definition, so does everyone else who has a brain at
    all, since forming opinions is one of the basic functions of the brain. All
    God's chillun got opinions. THanks for the compliment. Have a great day!

    Message: 80471
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: Happy Fun Ball
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 06:25:21

    Isn't that a Saturday Night Live bit?

    Message: 80472
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/Judgement
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 07:57:18

    Well sure.  Of course everyone else forms opinions and judgments.  I don't
    recall every saying the rest of us didn't.  You can't get thru life without
    doing so.  I don't consider it a failing in you or anyone else that they
    judge others; as you said, you'd have to be mindless NOT to do some judging
    along the way.  I don't recall the exact wording of the biblical admonition
    that many seem to think condems and prohibits judging but I believe it goes
    something along the lines of "Judge not lest ye be judged".  Which often
    seems to be interpreted to mean "Don't make judgements".  It is possible to
    read that in a different, and to me more logical and useful way, and still
    believe fully in the bible and God as the person doing the FINAL judgement.
    It can easily be read to simply be a warning that IF AND WHEN you engage ni
    judging things/people you should do so within the framework you yourself
    would like to be judged, i.e., judge others fairly.  Wouldn't mean you
    couldn't judge others, just be sure you are willing to have the same
    "quality" of judgment applied to yourself when GOD comes back and it is you
    on the hot seat.  Do you see any inherent conflict with that or is it too
    "open" to fit into your apparent desire to have a black and white rule for
    every aspect of your actions?

    Message: 80473
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Yes
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 08:09:26

    The Happy Fun Ball is an old SNL "commercial".

    Message: 80474
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Entertainment/Movies
    Subject: Last/Melissa
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 12:25:14

    Ah, thanks.  See, I haven't spent all of my life in the U.S., so that makes
    me culturally deprived.

    I got that piece by E-mail, but the guy who forwarded it hadn't written it
    himself, didn't say where it came from, and admitted that he couldn't even
    quote it verbatim.  I didn't have room to say all that, so I added "Anon".
    Thanks for the info so that we can attribute it to the proper source!

    Message: 80475
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Messages to come
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:11:59

    Okay, I have about 27 messages ready to upload and more yet to write.  But I
    thought you folks might prefer that I take pity on you, so I'm only going to
    upload 11 of them for now, and more later after a decent interval.  Or
    perhaps an indecent interval.  These will run from Green Lantern through
    Bill Burkett to the first batch of Fred Smith and, finally, to Beauregard
    Dog about Ham Radio.

    Thought I'd put in a notice, so y'all wouldn't think I'd forgotten the
    messages following these.

    Message: 80476
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Soviet gold
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:12:44

    GL> Perhaps the Soviets have noticed you can't eat gold and farmers are
    GL> smarter than that. They own the real gold.

    Oh?  Then why are the Soviets starving?

    My point is that they could buy food from other countries with that gold.
    My point *was* that the object of the exercise is to establish debt-money to
    the benefit of the world banksters; bringing that gold into circulation
    would reveal the Soviets as not being nearly as needy as they and the
    banksters want everyone to believe they are.  More briefly, bringing that
    gold into circulation would set back the New World Order instead of
    advancing it.

    Message: 80477
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: The trick
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:13:36

    GL> A little inflation is a good thing.

    Not by any prudent standard of economic measurement.  Absolutely not.
    Without inflation, technology and innovation improve the living standard for
    everyone, even the poor, *without* the cost of living increasing, *without*
    increasing taxes, *without* redistributing the wealth of the producers among
    the non-producers.

    GL> Deflation or no inflation is bad.  Excessive inflation is bad.
    GL> Therefore a gold standard is ludicrous.  The trick is to keep the
    GL> inflation rate to a reasonable level. I would argue that we have
    GL> managed to do that over the last several years.

    "trick" is the operative word here.  If you believe we have (or the FED or
    the gov't has) kept the inflation rate to a reasonable level over the last
    several years, you have surely been tricked.

    Message: 80478
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Get Straight 1/3
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:14:39

    RE:  "Let me get this straight" from Bill Burkett.

    In the order of points listed:

    BB> ... have foisted all this fake money on us and have no expectation of
    BB> payment in any kind of real money.

    Oh, they *do* expect to get paid in some kind of "real money" -- either the
    legal tender our laws require us to pay them (gold and silver coin) or
    equivalent value in property and means of production and the labor of the
    people.

    BB> The Banksters will then truly be in charge because they'll have the
    BB> only true source of wealth, the world's gold and silver supplies.

    No, they will then truly be in charge because our laws say we owe them our
    property, our means of production, and the labor of the people.  Even the
    Constitution has (purportedly, but fraudulently) been amended to prevent
    challenge or repudiation of that debt:  "The validity of the public debt of
    the United States, authorized by law, ... shall not be questioned."  (14th
    Amendment, Section 4.)

    [Continued]

    Message: 80479
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Get Straight 2/3
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:15:50

    BB> Additionally, in order to accomplish this charade, they have completely
    BB> subverted our form of government.

    Oh, beyond a doubt.  Not without our ignorant and greedy help, of course; no
    longer being taught principles to live by, we have descended into greed and
    avarice and voluntarily sold out our liberty -- the soul of our nation --
    for a few trinkets and baubles *some* people think improves their living
    standard, *now,* and shoved the payment for these things off on generations
    to come.

    BB> The only way to protect one's self from the coming catastrophe is to
    BB> have one's own gold and silver reserves.

    No.  Not the only way.  The way to protect oneself is to establish a barter
    community using lawful legal tender of gold and silver coin, and then, when
    the crash comes, those in that community will not feel it as much as those
    outside the community.  Of course this requires a certain level of gold and
    silver reserves, but merely having such reserves alone won't accomplish much
    until many have begun to recover from the catastrophe.

    [Continued]

    Message: 80480
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Get Straight 3/3
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:16:36

    There are many, many other steps people can take and must take to protect
    themselves, many of which are valid, but none of which are conclusive or
    guaranteed, and none of which will be very successful unless combined with
    an overall plan (which includes barter ability), and ALL of which are
    subject to the vagaries of life's decision-making.

    A BIG advantage of establishing a barter community is that it tends to
    offset catastrophes the same way the "underground economy" (which gov't is
    now trying its darndest to throttle) has virtually supported the country
    economically for the last few years.  If enough people got involved in the
    "underground economy" (and I'm not talking about drugs or smuggling; I'm
    talking about bartering services and needs with others), then the
    catastrophe would likely not happen at all.  Gov't and the banksters don't
    like underground economies; they are prevented from taking their unearned
    cut off the top.

    Message: 80481
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Backwards
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:17:12

    BB> Our money would have been devalued only if we had more, but were paying
    BB> the same amount, which is exactly what you seem to be advocating.

    On the contrary, our money is 'devalued' when it is worth less than
    previously.  That situation occurs when we have less for paying the same
    amount.

    Message: 80482
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Evidence
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:18:10

    FS> I still see no evidence of the "gold standard" working "so well"
    FS> compared to how much better the average man was able to live AFTER we
    FS> went OFF the gold standard.

    I'd like to know what support you have for your presumption that the
    "average man" was able to live better after we went off the gold standard.
    Aside from the fact that the "average man" is a figment of the average man's
    imagination, I know of no evidence at all that any member of the middle
    class improved his living standard significantly as a result of the gold
    being stolen from his investments.

    On the other hand, if you see no evidence of the "gold standard" working "so
    well" prior to its theft from our Constitutional Republic, then you know
    nothing of our economic history at the time of the ratification of our
    Constitution and for over a hundred years thereafter -- and, furthermore,
    you have ignored the information and documentation I have provided you.  If
    you want evidence, download "America ... Occupied" from the library and read
    it.  There is ample documentation therein for you to research the matter
    thoroughly on your own; I'm not going to re-write "America ... Occupied"
    here for your benefit when you are ignoring what I give you anyway.

    Message: 80483
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Preserving fortunes
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:19:20

    FS> You seem more concerned with presevring the fortunes of the wealthy ...

    Are you kidding me?  Nothing "preserves the fortunes of the wealthy" like
    the present system.  When we have a recession today, the middle class moves
    to the poverty class because the middle class is supporting the poverty
    class and can't afford to feed themselves too.  But to the wealthy, "it's
    only paper;" their real wealth is never at risk.  They are protected by the
    buffer provided by the destruction of the middle class, and that is one of
    the objectives of the current system.

    Under a gold standard, the wealthy have to bring their gold into circulation
    if they want to stay wealthy.  Then *everyone* -- rich, comfortable, or poor
    -- can have some of it in direct proportion to their willingness to work,
    and the economy improves immeasurably.  As a result, we all become equals
    again -- not equals by artificial gov't fiat which doesn't work anyway, but
    natural equals in opportunity and in risk.

    Message: 80484
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Oxymoron
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:20:13

    FS> I remain on the opinion that you are promoting a gold standard when
    FS> what you are really desirous of is a decent government.  If we could
    FS> get a decent gvt the gold standard would not be needed.

    If you think we are going to get a decent government without a
    Constitutional monetary standard of intrinsic value, you are more naive than
    I thought.

    Wake up, Fred!  There is no such thing as "a decent government."  Never has
    been and never will be.  The whole purpose of the Constitution of the United
    States, unlike documents formative of other national governments, was to
    create a government which *could not* lawfully oppress the people,
    politically *or* economically, regardless of how indecent and corrupt
    government, by its very nature and operation, becomes.

    Our government is oppressing us both politically and economically today.  It
    is still not doing so *lawfully,* and it cannot do so *lawfully,* under the
    Constitution of the United States.  But it will continue to do so
    *un*lawfully so long as we, the people, permit it.

    Message: 80485
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Ham Radio 1/2
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:21:46

    BD> So, Mr. Archimedes, are you going to get a federally-issued license in
    BD> order to operate HAM radio gear?  Why don't you just power it on
    BD> yourself and refuse to enter an equity relationship?

    I received my "federally-issued license in order to operate HAM radio gear"
    very nearly thirty years ago.  My purpose in studying the code now is to
    upgrade my class of license.

    There is nothing wrong with entering into an "equity relationship" as long
    as you do not waive any inherited and unalienable rights.  I have not; my
    license is signed "without prejudice."  Furthermore, the equity relationship
    pertaining to an Amateur Radio License is rather unique in that unlike other
    government-issued licenses, the Amateur Radio Service is specifically
    prohibited by statute from conducting any commercial activity.  This
    prevents the U.S. government from presuming that my activities as an Amateur
    Radio Operator are subject to any *general* jurisdiction under the commerce
    clause of the U.S. Constitution, as they do presume with all other licenses
    (even state-issued licenses!).

    Lastly, since an Amateur Radio License is compelled under criminal penalties
    for anyone wishing to operate on Amateur frequencies, and since there is no
    "commercial" involvement, the equity enforcement procedures currently used
    to enforce the rules would very quickly get yanked out from

    Message: 80486
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Ham Radio 2/2
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 13:23:03

    under them if the FCC were to prosecute me for some infraction I didn't
    think was appropriate.

    Ultimately, if all else were to fail, the international treaty itself could
    be overturned on the grounds that it conveys a jurisdiction over private
    non-commercial individuals which is not conveyed in the U.S. Constitution.
    Of course, personal responsibility weighs against that option; the result
    would be unmitigated chaos on the airwaves.

    So, I operate as an Amateur Radio Operator and I obey the rules.  If I find
    it necessary to preserve liberty (as Russian Amateurs did during the
    abortive coup attempt) then I will exercise my inherited and unalienable
    right to operate without obeying the rules (as they did).

    [By the way, many people wondered how Yeltsin got the word out to the people
    and the outlying provinces, etc., and you may have heard he had a small
    radio station at Parliament.  Well, that radio station was a ham radio
    station operated by Russian Amateurs 'illegally,' and there was a network of
    Russian Amateurs all across the country relaying messages back and forth to
    local governments and citizen groups 'illegally.'  The military tried to jam
    them, but found it impossible -- they'd just change frequencies and
    continue.  It was written up in a glorious article in QST magazine a couple
    of months ago.]

    Message: 80488
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: tungsten filaments
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 19:06:19

    I tend to agree with your reasoning (Gordon) about the purity of the
    filaments.  On the other hand, carbon has similar properties, and was used
    as a filament prior to the introduction of tungsten (which required the
    discovery of the process which gives tungsten ductility).  It's possible
    that a tungsten-carbon compound is used.

    I believe that this same process is responsible for the change in the
    elasticity of tungsten from its raw state.  One would not expect a material
    of the extreme brittleness which tungsten ordinarily demonstrates, to be so
    elastic, particularly as an extremely fine wire.

    Message: 80489
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Judge
    Date: 12/12/91  Time: 21:20:00

    I believe that bible quote goes like this:  Judge not lest you be judged.
    By the measure you judge you shall be judged.