### Apollo BBS Archive - Feburary 17, 1990

    Message: 63374
    Author: Larry Michaels
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff Beck
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 02:10:25

    Your love and compassion really shows.  Get a life why don't you.

    Message: 63379
    Author: Ralph Moffin
    Category: In search of
    Subject: intelligent life
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 04:33:01

    I've been watching this bbs with amazed eyes. Theres a sysop who sells
    ammunition to his users and in the next message want to give them "just say
    no" cards that entitle a person to free karate lessons and discounts on junk
    food. Mr. Sysop why dont you just say no to guns?
      Then we have this Larry guy who thinks we should put criminals on
    farms. Did he ever stop to think that maybe there arent enough farms for the
    criminals? I thouhtg the goverment was paying farmers not to grow their
    crops because the market was flooded?
      Then we have this Jeff Beck guy.  He writes things like "I disagree
    with you. You are a twit. Hitler was a normal boy. You are a twit. Hitler
    killed 6 million Jews. I am not replying to you any more after this. Oh, by
    the way..." Way to tell him. I think.
      Then there is Paul Savvage. He says we should kill people even if they
    comitted lesser crimes like stealing. "This would cut down on recidivism" he
    says. Good job Paul! Meanwhile we should let white collar workers go and
    let them pay back the money. I guess the color of your collar is what
    really counts, and if there is a silver necklace under it.
         I like this bbs overall though. I am considering $tatus. Its twelve
    dollars. I would like to be $tatus.

    <<>>

    Message: 63380
    Author: Ralph Moffin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Jesus H. Christ
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 04:36:14

      They say that Jesus died on a cross. Thats why people wear cross
    earrings and necklaces and why crosses stand atop our churchs.
      But what if Jesus Christ died in a different way?
      What if Jesus died of a gun wound? Would churchs have big guns on them?
    How about killed by an arrow. Would churchs have bows and arrows on them?
    Would we wear arrow earrings?
      What if Jesus died from being hit by a chariot? Or if he was stabbed?
    What if he drunk poison wine? We could have chariots, knives, or wine
    glasses on our churchs today! Thinkaboutit!
      What if he died from lethal injection? Thered be a hypodermic needle on
    top of our buildings of worship! How interesting!

      What if Jesus died from a venareal disease?

    This is just a thought I had.
    Something to think about.....sometimes!!!....

    Message: 63381
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on prisons
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 07:30:06

    I agree with you on the way they should be run. They should be taught
    discipline and not coddled. Heck, it would be better to go to prison if they
    did than to be responsible for the crime they committed. Some of the
    criminals never in their intire lives lived as good as the treatment they
    get in prison now. No use making it better for them. \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63382
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Larry on Hitler
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 07:33:27

    Re: "Can you name someone who has suffered more than Hitler or Manson?"

    Yeah -- the 6 million Jews he had horriablly distroyed and Sharon Tate!
                                  \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63383
    Author: Robert Beaubien
    Category: Bulletins
    Subject: New BBS
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 07:44:39

    !
    !               T R S - 8 0   C R U S A D E S
    !                           B B S
    !                 ( 6 0 2 ) 9 4 4 - 0 9 5 6
    !
    ! Phoenix's westside TRS-80 Model I, III, IV, IVp, 100 and 102
    !                   support bbs featuring :
    !
    !             * 35 megabytes of online storage *
    !             * Adult and religious sub-boards *
    !                  * MS-DOS support board *
    !              * Trs Link electronic magazine *
    !           * 300/1200/2400 baud : 24 hours a day *
    !
    !                --==>>Robert Beaubien<<==--
    !                --==>>   S y s O p   <<==--
    !               T R S - 8 0   C R U S A D E S
    !                           B B S
    !                 ( 6 0 2 ) 9 4 4 - 0 9 5 6
    !

    Message: 63384
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod on punishment
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 08:31:40

            If drug dealers had been put to death right from the start, then
    there would be no national drug problem.  Man has FREE WILL, and that means
    you are going to have Bad people as well as Good people.  The bad in a young
    person would grow if s/he got away with pranks and small crimes if
    punishment were not to be applied.   A lot of criminals come from families
    who just don't care and don't punish their offspring.  Then you have your
    lazy types who will always take advantage of anyone willing to pull the
    extra load.  This also grows with out the use of discipline & punishment.
    Why... because having free will and an analytical mind as man has, will get
    him in trouble.  Your not raising sheep or cattle Rod, you can't program man
    like a robot or computer, and there is no society that would make man any
    different then he is now with out the use of the threat of punishment to
    help keep him in line.

            And you know what, I would have it no other way....  I don't want to
    be 'cattle'.

            Look at the real problem...the fall of morals has brought an
    increase in crime.   The lack of quick punishment has made it flourish!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63385
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ann on prisons
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 08:45:40

    It seems to me that since we have these people locked up and under our
    control, that we should be able to brain-wash these losers into becoming
    productive citizens. But, instead, apparently we create a sub-society
    of criminal professionals with extreme anti-social attitudes. I think the
    "boot-camp" idea is a good start on this type of program and I would like
    to see it continue. I realize that some of these people are hopeless and
    will continue to revisit our prison system, but if we could reduce the
    recidivism rate by just 25 percent it would pay for itself. Any ideas on
    how to do this ?

    Message: 63386
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike C
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 09:04:40

    Well, I work for C.A.S.A.  I have written a booklet to help teenagers who
    feel suicidal called "Survivors".  I may not be making a major impact but I
    have changed/saved the lives of some people.  So I'm not just ranting here.
    There are things that can be done and I am doing some of them.

    Message: 63387
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Larry Michaels
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 14:35:54

         No, no, no...parents, whether or not they're bad role models, are not
    responsible for the actions of their children after their children become
    adults.  Even if the parents taught the child to steal, kill, etc., they are
    not the agent directly responsible for the crime.  The best our
    society can hope to do is to punish the person directly responsible, not to
    punish others who are "thought to have caused an environment conducive to a
    criminal attitude," or something.

         I don't see what's wrong with a system of "tit for tat," "eye for an
    eye."  If somebody kills your dog, they *should* be punished, be it by a
    fine and some time in jail, or by the more primitive method of having *his*
    dog put to sleep.  How can you say this person doesn't deserve retribution?
    What if somebody killed your dog, or something/somebody you loved?  Would
    you *not* favor some form of retributive punishment?

         A problem I see with some of the ideas a few of this BBS's users have
    is that they are not only saying "an eye for an eye," but "two eyes, an ear
    and a nostril for an eye."  In other words, they want to kill people for
    stealing, kill people for dealing drugs, kill people for anything unsavory.
    This is definitely not a fair system.  Especially in the case of dealing
    drugs, which isn't even a violent crime.  If somebody steals, put him in
    prison.  If he steals again when he gets out, put him in prison for an even
    longer time.  Pretty soon these "recidivists" won't have any life left to
    continue criminal activity with.

    Message: 63388
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: prison sentences
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 14:54:35

         I agree that a lot of heinous crimes go without an appropriate amount
    of punishment.
         I think that once an appropriate amount of prison time has been
    established per a crime, that sentence should be adhered to.  If the person
    committed multiple rapes, molestations or robberies, then the sentence
    should be appropriately multiplied.
         The death sentence could be used usefully in cases where the crime was
    so heinous that the victim's life is unrepairably and seriously impaired.
    For example, the man who raped an eight-year-old girl and severed her arms
    deserves a punishment equally terrible, perhaps death.
         However, the death sentence for a single rape or molestation case is
    overshooting the mark.  These criminals should still be given a good amount
    of time to think about their crime, but not their whole lives.  I don't know
    what the standards are for prison sentences, but 20 years sounds like a good
    chunk of time for 1st time rape or assault charges.
         Time off for good behavior, and paroles, should be limited.  While the
    good behavior plan is good in that it gives the prisoners a reason to try to
    behave while in prison, it should not be used to knock 5 years off of a
    15-year sentence.

         Does this seem unfair?  Is it too harsh or too light?

    Message: 63389
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Various
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 15:00:28

    PAUL:Probation for burglars and armed robbers, but death for those whose
         'crime' was selling an illegal substance to someone who wanted it?
         That is one reason capitol punishment is a bad idea; someone will
         be deciding who dies for what. And they may do as you suggest and
         kill people who have not initiated violence against others. The evil
         in using death to control non-violent behavior should be obvious to
         anyone.
    ROD: Resentment of others is a more likely cause of the warped personality
         which drives some people to destroy others. Given the chance, they
         will usually fall back on tales of unhappy life as an excuse. They
         often believe this themselves, and blame that unhappiness on the
         target group they are acting against. Hitler, Manson, and Marx each
         had their own hatreds and their own exuses for them. To say that we
         cannot judge their acts without knowing the true circumstances of
         their earlier lives is simply wrong. Resentment does not exuse
         destruction anymore than horniness excuses rape.
    CLIFF:If the death penalty had been used all along against people who sold
         guns, privately owned guns wouldn't be a problem anymore. Great idea
         huh?
    MOFFIN:Give Cliff $12 for status right away. Then convince him to just say
         no to guns. Next, have him turn all his guns over to me for proper
         'disposal'. He has changed sides on drugs again and again, so guns
         should be easy.

    Message: 63390
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: News Today
    Subject: criminal sentences
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 15:51:55

         IN TODAY'S NEWSPAPER...

    -- "A man was sentenced to life in prison Thursday for the murder of his
    girlfriend's 4-year-old son, who was beaten, burned, stuck with pins and
    forced to hang upside-down in a closet.  The woman was sentenced to life for
    letting it happen.
         The sentences for Johnny Campbell and Alicia Abraham carry *no
    possibility of parole*.  [My emphasis]
         Campbell said he beat Lattie and his 8-year-old brother, Cornelius, to
    curb what he thought was homosexual behavior."

         MEANWHILE...

    -- "HUNTSVILLE, Texas.  A man who spent nearly eight years behind bars for a
    grocery-store robbery he never committed has walked out of prison after
    being given a full pardon.
         The release Wednesday of Michael Anthony Woten, 36, marked the *sixth
    time* [my emphasis] since 1984 that an inmate's conviction in Dallas County
    has been thrown out or reversed and the person freed after spending years in
    prison.
         The most famous case was that of Randall Dale Adams, who served 13
    years after being convicted of killing a Dallas police officer but was freed
    last year after his story was told in the film *The Thin Blue Line*."
             (...good thing we didn't kill him, huh Paul?)

    Message: 63392
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Zak???
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 16:32:33

    Re: Especially in the case of dealing drugs, which isn't even a violent
    crime.

            Why do I have a hard time believing that?   You sit there and tell
    me there are no drug deaths.  Tell me there are no drug wars.  Tell me
    people don't die on bad drugs... O.D. on unknown drugs....  If NO one ever
    gets hurt with drugs...what is the big fuss about?

            If a drug dealer sells a minor drugs, bringing an early death to
    that minor.... then I think the drug dealer should be put to death.
            If someone sold my boys drugs... I might not kill the guy, but I
    sure would want to beat the snot out of him.

            I see a lot of violence in the drug business!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63393
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Dean Hathaway
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 16:51:26

            I have not really changed my mind on drugs.  If we are going to keep
    them illegal, then let's do the war the right way to win it.  If this is to
    hard on your stomach, then let's legalize drugs, giving us controll first
    then we can educate and help those who want help later.
            Guns are not illegal Dean....  let me repeat...  Guns are NOT
    illegal!   If Drugs were leagal, I would not be saying give dealers the
    death penalty.  I mearly point out the war on drugs is not being fought
    seriously enough to be won.  Fight to win, or make it legal!

            If I were told I would be fined for running a free speech BBS and
    slapped on the hand....I might still keep running it.   However, if there
    was a death penalty for running that same BBS....  you would not be reading
    this post as Apollo would be broken plastic (or I would give it to Todd
    Reese and let him hang).....  The price I might have to pay would not be
    worth the risk.  So, the 4 thousand U.S. SysOps would now number about 500.
    There are always a few stupid people, but the battle would be narrowed down
    a great big amount.  That is how you fight a war!

            By the way, were you one of the guys running the VietNam war a
    decade ago?  You sound like it.

    Message: 63394
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Criminals & Zak!
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 17:00:39

            So, for the FEW people in prison that have been found possibly
    innocent and released are an even exchange for the thousands who have been
    released who committed even worse crimes.

            Good math!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63395
    Author: Ralph Moffin
    Category: In search of
    Subject: brains?
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 17:27:29

      Dean I will have to send Cliff the sysop my money, but I hope I don't
    haave to tell him where I live!!!!
      Sysop cliff, I went back to look for your message where you were sellinng
    ammunition, but its not there anymore. Why did you erase it? Is it illegal
    to sell ammunition?
      I think its good that our criminal justice system works so thatpeople who
    are not guilty can get out if people find out their not guilty. I think the
    people who want to kill everybody must be very angry and not have their
    heads screwed on.

      <<>>

      <<>>

    <<>>

    Message: 63396
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: SYSOP on stats
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 18:03:50

    Fine, feel like you do in [63394] until you or someone that you love gets
    wrongly convicted.

    Message: 63397
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ralph Moffin
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 18:27:55

            First off Ralph... it is not illegal to sell ammo or make reloads.

    Second, I did NOT ZAP my post...  you just failed to find it.  Try eading
    post number 63369 or do a ind on '9mm'.

    Third... you best send the info as to your phone number and where you live,
    or $tatus will not be granted and your check will be ripped up.  This of
    course is if you even apply.   However, there is no fee to use the PUBlic
    part of this board and you are more than welcome to do so.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63398
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: For sale
    Subject: PDP1134
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 18:29:38

            With manuals and lots of media....  for info as to where this unit
    is.... please leave me mail.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63399
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Reader's Digest
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 18:34:24

            I want Rod to read the March 1990 issue, page 105 - 110 on
    Communism's Incredible Collapse: How it Happened.

            For you anti Reagan buffs and put-downers such as Zak Woodruff and
    Paul Savage....  please READ with an open mind.   If you can't read...I will
    be happy to read it too you....

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63400
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 19:08:49

    Re:  "I don't know where I stand on capital punishment."

    If you don't know where you stand, that seems to mean you can see reason for
    capital punishment in some cases.  That's where I stand, and I consider
    myself for capital punishment.

    Message: 63401
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 19:17:50

    Re:  "Well, I work for C.A.S.A.  I have written a booklet to help teenagers
    who feel suicidal called "Survivors".

    What are your qualifications?

    Message: 63402
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 19:20:11

    Re:  "parents, whether or not they're bad role models, are not
    responsible for the actions of their children after their children become
    adults."

    Good post Zak!

    Message: 63403
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 19:31:45

    Re:  "Does this seem unfair?  Is it too harsh or too light?"

    I agree with you Zak, except maybe for rape.  Rape is such a horibble crime.
     I don't think death is too extreme in most cases.

    I know a woman who was gang raped.  One of the men was identified from a mog
    shot and positively identified in a line up.  Ulitmately the man was found
    not guilty becuse he was black and the rape victim was from the south.  The
    defense lawyer convinced the jury the women was biased against all blacks
    because she was from the south.  Therfore she really couldn't id the man.

    Could you id a man who raped you face to face in a well lighted room?  All
    the others wore ski masks.  This was not just a rape but a perverted type
    rape involving unmentionable things I would not put on a public BBS.

    What's the point here?  Our judicial system has gone so far to protect the
    criminal, the victims are all but forgotten.  I am concerned for the rights
    of people.  I am concerned for the right of a 10 year old boy to walk down
    the street in broad daylight and not get kidnapped and repeatedly sodmized.
    I am concerned for the rights of our mothers and sisters to the store and
    not be gang banged.  I am very concerned!

    Message: 63404
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/63310
    Date: 02/16/90  Time: 22:30:27

    Yes, Cliff.

    I do.

    Message: 63405
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ralph
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 02:05:09

    There was no "oh, by the way..."  The second message actually preceded the
    first, only the first was updated and thus appeared to be a contradiction.

    Woof.

    Message: 63406
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pere Ubu
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 02:06:37

    Somebody get me a toothpick.

    Message: 63407
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak & others
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 05:47:40

     For the benefit of those who insist on misreading my posts, I shall repeat
    myself.
     I have never advocated the death penalty for stealing! (That's for
    whatsisname, this new kid in the neighborhood who has such trouble
    comprehending simple statements.)
     As to the innocent wrongly imprisoned, my position on capital punishment
    stands. This happens in such a small percentage of capital cases that it is
    really an acceptable risk. Better, in my humble opinion, to execute 1
    wrongly accused person than to let 100 murderers or rapists return to the
    street for good behaviour so that they can repeat their heinious activities.
     Concerning the alleged "non-violence" of dealing illegal drugs, you who
    feel this way have a lot of bodies to overlook to see your point. What about
    those killed in drug related drive by shootings? What about those kids who
    buy and use too many drugs and then thik they can fly and test their "wings"
    from the roof of a local building? What about those who die a horrible,
    lingering death from multiple use of drugs, or from overdoses, or shared
    needles? What about the territorial disputes of the dealers themselves?
    (Although the happy thought occurs that they might all kill each other off,
    saving the state all but one execution.) Sorry Zak, but your (and other's)
    contention that drugs are non-violent or victimless just doesn't wash. THe
    continued use of thousands of words in defense of the largest illegal
    industry in the US will never change the nature of the beast.
    Again, death to those who deal in death and/ or bodily harm. Restitution and
    rehabilitation for those whose crimes are against property.

    Message: 63408
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob Thornburg
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 08:03:11

    I was not saying that I had any qualifications.  I was merely trying to show
    Mike Carter that there are people who care about teenagers and I don't feel
    that suiside is a selfish act.  However, I was a teenager.  And I have had
    training at C.A.S.A. to talk down callers who might be suicidal.

    Message: 63409
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Cattle Prodded Gonad
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 09:19:52

    Torture is not new to our time. Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David,
    Samuel, Isaiah, and the prophets all enforced justice, received
    promises, faced the sword, ran kingdoms, became victorious in war,
    learned of the strength in weakness, of the power in vulnerablilty, were
    mocked, scourged, chained, blinded, sawed in half, stoned, wore sheep
    skins, wandered friendless over deserts, hid in caves and did not
    receive what was promised. Women lost their children and were themselves
    beaten to death, yet refused to deny the faith. They knew that God
    foresees something better for us than our best plans. With such a cloud
    of witnesses around us, let us put down our selfishness and our striving
    after glory, let us stop trying to be God, and devote our energy to
    running the race He entered us in. Consider the example of Jesus Christ
    when you talk of torture and faith, or when you write about the joy in
    enduring shame or the victory in humiliation.

    (My own paraphrase of Hebrews 11:32-12:2)
    Mike

    PS. I knew the Guggenheims. They were genteel, polite, mannerly,
    generous,well-educated, empathetic, and loving people. I always looked
    forward to a visit to the DC area and a stop at the Estate. They always
    welcomed me with open arms. Part of "name" includes "character."

    Message: 63410
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Lethal weapons
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 09:26:07

    Mr. Moffin brings up a good point. We do not wear little model electric
    chairs around our necks! The Christian church is looking for a symbol to
    replace the Cross (has anyone else noticed?). The Dove, the stupid fish that
    was really a symbol for the Goddess' genitals, the Butterfly, a stupid fish
    with the Cross actually entering it(!)...all these I have seen lately being
    represented as appropriate symbols for Christianity. Well, before we all
    sticker our bumpers with rainbows and doves... What is the Gospel we are
    trying to symbolize? Is it "everythings beautiful?" Is it "it all was done
    for us 2000 years ago, so we can slide right around our own responsibility?"

    I don't know.... The Cross was not the symbol for Christianity in the
    beginning either... Anyone have a suggestion for an appropriate symbol for
    me actually DYING WITH CHRIST to my selfishness so God can use me to show
    love to this world?

    Mike

    Message: 63411
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliffy
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 10:22:56

    Uhhhhh .. you keep addressing posts to a Rod! Is Rod Williams back among us
    and I don't know it? \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63412
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on prisoners
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 10:34:05

    As I've said before - I don't think prisoners should be coddled nor should
    they be treated inhumanely either, but make our prisons productive - make
    them pay their total way and not the tax payers. Teach them skills so that
    they could survive on the outside when the do get out. I have never seen a
    prison that didn't have acres around them that could be farmed by the
    prisoners and eaten by them only. If there is surpluss, then sell it to the
    public and them make the profit. (the prison) These people do not have to
    spend the bulk of their time in a cell. I'd be willing to bet that the
    majority of criminals are uneducated and have not be able to survive nor
    cope with the regular world. If we gave them a way to make a good living
    while in there, it stands to reason that they'd see it's a better way than
    the life of crime. If they want giant screen color TV sets, pool tables, or
    a gym, then let them pay for it with their labors. The people on the outside
    do! As for the criminal that won't change - let him stay in prison then if
    he keeps braking the law. Look at all the man power going to waste right now
    in all of the prisons. How can we expect them to lead productive lives if we
    slam them into cubicles for years and then tell them to be good? This is
    just my opinion. \\* ANN *//

    ]

    Message: 63413
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak, on the ...
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 10:39:02

    ... other hand - I can't remember all the details, but there was a very
    famous trial of a guy called the Red Light bandit in Calif. many years back
    - he killed several people - remained in prison for 11 years and they
    finally put him to death. I thought that was the most ridiculous thing I
    ever heard. Not one bit of it made sense. \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63414
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa on suicide
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 10:50:15

    I really disagree with you there when you said "I don't feel that suicide
    is a selfish act"! I feel it is the MOST selfish act one could do! I can
    think of nothing worse on the people who love the ones that do it. A perfect
    revenge to hurt as deep as one can and totally distroy those left behind.

    I don't agree with your ideas, but certainly like what you are doing to
    help. Many would be suicides can and are talked out of it. \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63415
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: kill the innocen{
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 11:34:05

    Reminds me of the lady legislator who didn't mind that a few innocent
    people might be executed with her 'hang 'em by the balls' legislation
    for child molestors. Can't have an omelot if you don't break a few
    eggs, eh ?

    Message: 63416
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ann on prisons
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 11:39:10

    Sound like a good idea. Surely others must have thought of doing the
    same. There must be prison systems that are more successful than
    others. Do you know of any ?

    Message: 63417
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Woodruff
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 12:24:46

    My visit with Rae was very nice.

    Message: 63418
    Author: Ralph Moffin
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: anything
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 14:54:21

      We should take ann eye for an eye to its limits. If somebody stabs
    somebody 6 times, then that person should be stabbed 6 times also. If a man
    violenlty rapes a women, he should be violently raped himself with a stick
    and be castrated and then put in jail.  The problem is who will do it?
    ANSWER --> I WILL!

    <<>>

    Message: 63419
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 15:14:30

            Somehow, I do not quite go along with that idea.

    Message: 63420
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: statistics
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:19:24

    And it's more likely that you'll be hit by a car on the way to your polling
    place than it is that your vote will make a difference.

    Message: 63421
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ultimate drug thrill
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:20:26

    Who says recreational drug use is for "pleasure"?

    Message: 63422
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: addiction
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:24:55

    Anything can be addictive.  I don't have the complete reference handy, but
    the article "Defining 'addiction'" in a recent issue of the Canadian Journal
    of Psychology by a couple neuropsychologists from Simon Fraser University
    gives some info.  "Dependence" is the word used to designate a physical need
    for a substance.

    Message: 63423
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: obey the law
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:27:15

    Bob T: "The law is the law and should be obeyed."
       What if the law is immoral?

    Message: 63424
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: coke/pepsi/nicotine
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:30:14

    Only about 3% of coke users become addicted, whereas it's more like 10% for
    nicotine.  And tobacco users need fixes more often than coke users or heroin
    addicts.  (For figures on cocaine addiction, see Ethan Nadelmann's article
    in the Sep. 1, 1989 _Science_.)
       The latest (March 1990) Scientific American (in the Science and the
    Citizen) column rebuts some claims about drugs doing nasty things to
    society's productivity.  Bush's claimed statistic, for example, is bogus.

    Message: 63425
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Christians
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:33:12

    I always find it amusing how Christians try to evade responsibility for the
    continuously abhorrent behavior of Christians over the last 1900+ years.

    Message: 63426
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: drugs
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:38:13

    Who wants a sober civilization?  How boring.  (And we sure don't have one
    now.)

    Message: 63427
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: suicide
    Date: 02/17/90  Time: 18:40:38

    Suicide should be legal.  But, unfortunately, legalized suicide is not down
    any slippery slope from legalized abortion or even legalized active
    euthanasia.