### Apollo BBS Archive - March 26 - 27, 1990

    Mail from Bill Burkett
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 09:35:15

            I think it was probably in the first half of 87.  I recall
    making references to Jack Daniel's and (I think) Milton Friedman.
    As I mentioned yesterday, if you have the capability of scanning
    for my name, that would probably turn it up as I posted very
    little.
            I live in the are of 7th Ave and Glendale.  And, no, I'm not
    sure I want to meet you, but what the heck.  I'm interested in an
    estimate because we want to compare the cost of just having the
    knob and deadbolt installed versus the cost of getting a whole
    new door (The present door is pretty flimsy and you know how a
    few burglaries in the neighborhood can start you thinking about
    security.).
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I think I have located your posts.  Last night I scanned 15 disks for your
     2:name.  I checked just a little over a year period (if years come as such).
     3:
     4:I do remember the mention of Jack Daniels.  I created a folder for you and
     5:everything that was note worthy I put in.  I will now check that folder for
     6:the file that mentions Jack Daniels.
     7:
     8:Methinks I would have to look at the door in order to give you an estimate.
     9:Today I installed 3 double-cylinder deadbolts at a car lot.  I charged $10
    10:for installation (there was no hole) and $16. each for the locks.  I didn't
    11:charge the usual $5 service call because I was already in the area.  If this
    12:gives you an idea as to pricing then good.  If the hole is already in the
    13:door then that is easier.  You may even want the locks keyed up to your
    14:existing key and for that I charge (depending on type) $3.50 - $4.50 but if
    15:there is anything you would like to trade (such as your first born child or
    16:ten pounds of marijuana or a good hit of LSD) I would be willing.
    17:NOTE:  I charged $10 for each lock where no hole existed although I
    18:installed a knob in one door that already had a hole in the door but not the
    19:jamb and for that I charged $3. for install and $5 for the used knob.
    20:
    21:My main problem is that I usually work from morning till early evening just
    22:trying to keep up with my calls.  But I do run into flat spots from time to
    2 lines left
    23:time.   -Rod

    Message: 64253
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last/SIG name
    Date: 03/26/90  Time: 22:14:44

    I think the ATH SIG should be named the DOG (as in Beau) SIG or something to
    that effect.  It was his SIG.

    Message: 64254
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: SHORT COMMENT
    Date: 03/26/90  Time: 22:25:07

    I have a lot of posts to catch up on.  But while scanning the days messages
    a thought occurred to me.  It is this:

            I think that everyone was abused in one way or another and that is
    one reason why the world is so messed up.  In my case I was loved by both of
    my parents, fought with my brother and two sisters and was terribly abused
    by society as I was growing up.

            I was yanked out of my bed so that I would attend school.  In the
    winter sometimes the snow was three feet thick and the tempature was 15
    below (and we didn't take into account wind chill).  Everything I saw that I
    wanted was for sale and I never had the money but I could only look.  I
    didn't understand the theory of capitalism back then.  I don't think a kid
    does unless specifically taught and I wasn't.  I would pocket that which fit
    into my pants until I started realizing that I was just making it hard on
    everyone by raising prices.

            I think our society is basically unfair in its present day
    structure.  The nation is a store of shopkeepers.

    Message: 64255
    Author: Gordon Little
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff/Abuse
    Date: 03/26/90  Time: 23:38:37

    Subtle forms of abuse are likely to lead to much more subtle personality
    disorders; and no, it would have to be the patient himself or herself who
    eventually came to that conclusion, not the therapist alone.  But that
    conclusion might be reached only after considerable introspection and
    objective comparison with other people's upbringing.  Most people, unless
    they have good reason to think hard about it, assume that their own
    upbringing was "normal" (because it *was* "normal" for them).

    However, Alice Miller's contention was not that seriously disturbed people
    had been subjected to "some" form of abuse, but that the abuse in their
    cases was flagrant.  And yes, an enormous amount of abuse is hidden.
    Children are either too young or too scared to talk about what is done to
    them.  Parents are often believed rather than the child because "grown-ups
    are right".  People don't want to acknowledge the bruises and broken bones
    they see; they'd rather not have to believe that parents can behave like
    that.  And even if they do, they don't want to stir things up by
    interfering.  Sexual abuse, while equally devastating, leaves no visible
    scars and so is much more easily covered up.  Various surveys have found
    that upwards of 1 in 4 females and 1 in 12 males were sexually abused in
    some way in childhood.

    The world can be very unsupportive, yes, and even hostile, but in the
    balance it is just indifferent.  There are sadistic people out to get you;
    there are also do-gooders who are only too anxious to help you.

    The rest of the people are too wrapped up in their own interests to care;
    but you can get support from them if you go about it the right way (which
    means hooking their interest).

    People who grew up in a supportive environment don't, in general, lie about
    in a daze.  They +are+ resilient and adaptive.  Faced with indifference,
    they set to work using the skills they have learned in that supportive
    environment to actually recreate that environment around them -- to the
    limited and localized extent of which they are capable -- from the
    indifferent raw material they find.  They do this in two ways.  First, by
    selecting "their kind" of people as friends and associates, and steering
    well clear (as far as they can) of the kind who are out to do them harm --
    the alien kind.  Secondly, by the way they interact with people, in such a
    way as to foster positive relationships, trust, and mutual goodwill.  Of
    course it doesn't work with everybody, but if they practice a particular
    policy consistently they tend to come out ahead in the long run.

    A simple example of positive interaction with people is that if you want
    something out of somebody you are more likely to get their cooperation if
    you treat them decently.  If you demand what you want and call them all the
    names under the sun, they won't be very anxious to help.  This is how the
    abusive person is more likely to behave.  Of course, you *can* get things
    out of people by intimidating them also, but it is likely to work only once;
    they are very wary of you after that.

    The person raised in the opposite kind of environment is likely to behave in
    precisely the opposite fashion, picking the wrong kinds of associates and so
    on, who only help to confirm his negative picture of the world.  How many
    people, for example, keep on marrying the same kind of person who is wrong
    for them in exactly the same way?  And they lack skills for positive
    interactions with other people.  Sociopaths absolutely do, as you say, go
    out of their way to disrupt positive environments.  Why should they do such
    a patently destructive thing?  There are two ways of answering this
    question, mutually consistent in that they lead to the same result.  One is
    that the sociopath is recreating the environment he knew by stirring up
    anger and hostility.  The other is that he has no skills to participate in a
    positie environment; he is perpetually left on the outside, and so can only
    vent his anger and jealousy by destroying the peace of others.  And that, in
    a way, is why you won't cure the sociopath just by being kind to him:
    because internally, he doesn't trust you, you're not telling him anything he
    understands -- in fact he's not even listening -- and you're not giving him
    anything he can use to make himself feel better.

    Why should a sociopath not always recreate an environment in which he
    himself continues to be the victim, as he always was?  Well, if we
    substitute "disturbed person" for "sociopath", then many of them do:
    battered women, for example.  But we don't care about them because they're
    not a problem to *us*.  It's only when they start robbing our homes and
    shooting us that we notice them and attach labels, like "sociopath".

    The sociopath only tries to recreate the same *environment* he was raised in
    (an abusive one); it doesn't necessarily mean he has to play the same *role*
    in that environment.  In view of the anger that results from being abused,
    the sociopath must have an enormous need for revenge.  The simplest way to
    get that revenge is to stick to the same rules of the game, but just switch
    roles.  "When I grow up I'm going to have the right to be just like Daddy
    was, and beat the hell out of everybody."

    People do do things that seem insane to us; and when they do, surely their
    behavior must be governed by some rules of logic other than the ones we take
    for granted.

    Re Oliver Sacks: I think it's quite likely that his patients would have
    singled out other politicians as frauds also, and for the same reason:
    because of the internal inconsistencies they detected in the speech.  Maybe
    some politicians more than others.  It happened to be Reagan who was on TV.
    Would you have been annoyed if it had been Ted Kennedy?  (I certainly
    wouldn't!)  Is there something you know about Sacks that I don't -- like,
    did he campaign for Carter in 1980?

    Message: 64259
    Author: Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff/James/cards
    Date: 03/26/90  Time: 23:48:10

    I can't get the poker odds to be any different either, whichever method I
    use.  Oh, I got 504.[84] recurring, but that's probably just a rounding
    error.  Maybe those books *are* wrong.  Errors have been propagated by
    copying before.  Even Jove nods...

    Message: 64260
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Gun drivel/GT
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 01:14:12

    Make the shootout GT on the 22 of April and I would show up with my 45 acp
    and 12 gauge shotgun.
    I think some of the laws concerning guns are rediculous.  I also think some
    of the claims the NRA and the anti-gun lobby are rediculous.  Unfortunately
    there are people out there who own guns and shouldn't be allowed to own them
     They think they know what they are doing, are unsafe, and most of them
    shouldn't even be allowed to drive, let alone own a gun.  I also know people
    who want to own a gun, are well trained and safe with them, but legally
    can't because of some obscure gun law.
    I think the gun laws in this country should be different.  Unfortunately my
    idea of "Gun Control" couldn't work under our government right now.  Oh
    well, maybe someday there will be a answer to this debate, EH???
     " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls

    Message: 64261
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon Little
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 04:04:02

    I guess I am not trying to contend that none of the individuals in question
    have been flagrantly abused.  That would be about as silly as saying that
    they all have.  What I am trying to say is that some of them are, some of
    them aren't, and there are an awful lot of people out there who have
    suffered some pretty flagrant abuses, and who seem to get along OK, without
    becoming violent criminals.

    As I have already pointed out, your assumptions are false: the individuals
    in question have had every exposure to better lifestyles, and this combined
    with ordinary human imagination and the normal desire to exist in a better
    environment would easily allow them to get along, if that was what they
    wished to do.  One does not need learn the "skills" you mention: it is
    instinctual and self evident that one can, in a purely pragmatic manner, if
    need be, create a better environment for one's self by treating people in a
    reasonable manner (that does not mean being indiscriminantly nice to
    people).  Sociopaths know this very well, and know as well as anyone else
    the value of flattery and friendliness, the difference being that these are
    used exclusively as tools for a sinister end.  So don't tell me they lack
    the skills to get along with people: they merely choose not to, because that
    is not their goal.
    As for labels, they are very useful things, so long as they do not cause
    unfair discrimination.  If the label fits, wear it.  Our culture has become
    saturated with unctuous euphamisms; I'm not going to encourage more.
    You write as though you have no concept of the motivation of such people.  I
    cannot believe this, however, and instead choose to accept the fact that the
    concept of deliberate evil stuns and depresses you to the point where you
    are willing to accept the most naive rationalizations.
    The believers have their devils; the humanists have theirs too.

    Yes, the behavior of people who do apparently insane things is often
    governed by other "rules of logic," or more accurately, other motives, than
    the ones which impel us.  So why do you insist on imposing your motives on
    them?  When you assert things such as "sociopaths have a lot of anger from
    their abuse and a need for revenge and therefore decide to be like the
    people who abused them," you are clearly attempting to explain their
    behavior in terms which relate to your own mindset, although you certainly
    are grasping at straws.  After all, why should anger caused by an individual
    be directed at society in general?  Why should not this "desire for revenge"
    be directed at those responsible?  All of your explainations exist as
    attempts to force unpleasant, meaningless, and puzzling facts into a
    rational framework which allows you to comprehend -- and therefore cease to
    fear -- the unknown.  The problem is, you cannot explain the irrational and
    the perverse in terms of the rational and the normal.

    Message: 64264
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon/thanks
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 04:31:16

    I wanted to thank you for your input on the card problem.

    Message: 64265
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Card probabilities
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 05:17:57

      I think you're making it all too hard.
      Try to deal five cards out of a 52-card deck and get a flush.  Proceed
    like this:
      What are the chances that the first card you deal will not blow the flush?
    They're 52/52, because any card will do, but the first card determines the
    suit.
      Second card.  The chances of not blowing it are 12/51, because there are
    twelve cards of the chosen suit left out of the fifty-one cards remaining.
      Third card.  The chances of not blowing it are 11/50.
      Fourth card.  The chances are 10/49.
      Fifth card.  If you've gotten this far, the chance is 9/48.
      Now multiply 52/52 * 12/51 * 11/50 * 10/49 * 9/48, and you have the
    overall probability.
                                =(O,O)=  Hoot!

    Message: 64266
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Pools
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 08:44:35

    I think that this law is just another example of Busy Body Government run
    by Busy Bodies who want to get into YOUR life and tell you how to live it.
    These people think there is a TECHNICAL solution to a person problem. Quite
    frankly, there is no way to prevent drownings unless people are vigilant
    and watch their kids with an eagle eye. This nonsense of building fences
    within fences is the same sort of nonsense that we see the Legislature
    trying to do with Record Labeling and the stupid dildo law of a couple
    of years ago. Maybe we need an erstwhile? Libertarian. Why don't you all
    start a recall movement against the members of city council who voted for
    this insidious law.

    Message: 64267
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Drivel Drivel
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 08:47:14

    Dean, you are absolutely correct. I underhandedly got people to label
    their messages "Gun Drivel" so that I could sneer at them without having
    to reply in kind.

    Message: 64268
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Dean on Texas
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 08:48:20

    Let's not encourage anyone.

    Message: 64269
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff/SD
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 08:50:30

    Sorry, there's too much drivel to read in the various Sigs. Thanks for
    reminding me. I'll download the stuff this weekend.

    Message: 64270
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/2nd?3rd? Amend.
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 08:55:46

    4th?. Anyway, there is a very interesting case coming up before the Supreme
    Court today regarding the right of a Governor of a state to "veto" the
    training imposed by the Federal Government on a state National Guard. The
    two sides are arguing whether the National Guard is a Federal force or a
    State militia.Most governors have not joined this suit since 90 percent of
    the funding for the National Guard comes from the Feds.

    Message: 64271
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on fence law
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 09:20:04

            I fully agree... it is a 'person' problem!  The so called TECHNICAL
    solution is going to give everyone FALSE security, and an excuse for the
    lack of responsibility on their part.   Another STUPID law makes its way on
    the books.  Now that is drivel!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 64272
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff/Cards
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 09:34:36

    Oh well.  I never was any good at cards.  Or math.

    Message: 64273
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on sigs.
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 10:44:02

    I remember so well how great it felt to have a sig. named after me - like I
    really belonged here. I felt at home on Apollo from the first time I logged
    in - but that really made my day. Not that I would be offended if you took
    the pet sig away because of lack of use - but now ALL the sigs. are so
    impersonal. This IS a personal BBS - it is like NO OTHER!

    I'll say it again - if Nick doesn't post or there's no posts on Ann's pet
    sig, that's fine to delete them, but I still feel that Zak's sig should
    remain named after him because it is so active! Now that Rod is back, maybe
    the ATHiest's sig should be changed back. When I was a new member, I had no
    trouble at all finding out what the sigs were all about and those that I
    wanted to be involved in.

    Of course, this is all up to you. I guess it's no big deal. Just my opinion
    on the subject. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 64274
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Militia drivel
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 11:37:06

            The word 'militia' does not refer to a group like the National
    Guard.  The Founding Fathers were clear that the militia was the whole
    citizenry.  Patrick Henry said in 1782: "Who are the militia? They consist
    now of the whole people."
            The Militia Act of 1792 defined the militia as including "every,
    free, white, able-bodied male."  And the current U.S. Code, Title 10,
    section 31 says that the militia of each state includes "All able-bodied
    males at least 17 years of age and... under 45 years of age who are, or have
    made declaration of intention to become, citizens."

    Sysop -

    Message: 64275
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: SIG Drivel
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 16:35:19

            Okay, I have placed Zak back in the 'prefix' to the Film & Video
    SIG.  The Name is still 'Film & Video' but when you enter it, It will say
    'Zak's Film & Video Bulletin Board'  <--- that is what I call the prefix
    header.
            As for the Music Sig, its prefix is now 'Nick's Joint, Bulletin
    Board'.

            The above two seemed to be the one's I got the most grips about.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 64276
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 18:39:57

    Re:  "I was yanked out of my bed so that I would attend school.  In the
    winter sometimes the snow was three feet thick and the tempature was 15
    below (and we didn't take into account wind chill)."

    Did you have to walk uphill to go to school?  Both ways?

    Message: 64277
    Author: John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: SIGS
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 19:41:56

    Hey, I am new at this BBS. Shucks, I'm new at all bbs's--I just got a TELIX
    program last week. What do I do if I want to check into a Spec. Interest
    Group on this BBS?  I tried to get into Old Farts but it wouldn't let me.
    Maybe I'm not old enough? I remember WWII--how old do I have to be?
    ?
     How come I can't remember how to save this and get out of here?

    Message: 64278
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Entertainment/Movies
    Subject: MacGregor
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 21:01:13

    Well, you reach the same odds through an almost identical method.  Your
    method isn't any simpler; what's your point?  (Sorry: I forgot I'm talking
    to the guy who thinks division by zero is possible).  Snort.

    Jeff "grouchy" Beck

    Message: 64279
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bill
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 21:03:49

    Hey, neither am I!  On another night, without having considered the problem
    prior to logging on, I could very well have made the same mistake.

    Jeff "magnanimous" Beck

    Message: 64280
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod on Abuse
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 21:57:08

    Oh yeah?!  Well, I had to wake up before I went to bed, lick the road clean
    with my tongue and be happy on the days we'd have gravel to eat.

    Message: 64281
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Census
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 22:36:07

      I asked the guy I got the newletter from if he had received the stuff they
    were talking about and he said he has not. The piece I quoted was all there
    was concerning the Census in what I have. Sorry, I want to get more info on
    that myself.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 64282
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 22:44:36

       As Gordon Little said of your brain-drain treatment, 'Whom would you
    trust to use it?' You and I might become prime candidates for
    'reformatting' if the state undertakes such things in the name of public
    safety, etc. Why do you think it is any less cruel to expunge a person's
    mind and force conformance than it is to kill? The 'socially acceptable'
    creature you are left with may assuage your feelings as to what you have
    done, but the person you started with-a complex individual who's
    experience and ego developed form a unique set of circumstances-is just
    as dead as if gassed to death and buried.
       As with most of your solutions, you say that it would have to be
    carried out by the vastly more intelligent people of the future. If they
    are so smart that they can overcome all of the obvious shortcomings of
    such a thing, then they can probably come up with a much better approach
    to the whole problem also. You must assume super-intelligent beings in
    order to make your plans work. I must assume that they would throw your
    plans away. The bottom line is: a plan which has no application to
    current conditions is a waste of time.
       If there is anything in the future which offers an alternative to
    death  or imprisonment for violent offenders, I would hope that it is
    more along the lines of Gordon's 'unearthing' and 'discharging' of root
    causes. In your chosen lexicon that might be called sparing out a sector,
    or re-assigning a bad block. It is much less destructive than formatting.
      See You Later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 64283
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: MikeCarter
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 22:44:56

       I know what you mean when you say that there are hordes of people who
    blame objects or things for the actions of people. I am in agreement
    there. Jeff Cooper, the well known author and teacher, gave this condition
    the name 'Hoplophobia'. It translates to a fear of instruments. Cooper
    feels that prohibitionist camps are rife with this syndrome. The first
    step in combating them is to realize that they are sick and to get others
    to realize it as well. When they have been defused as a source of demented
    restrictions, maybe they can even be cured.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 64284
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GordonLittle
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 22:45:36

       I've been busy lately, but I printed out your posts so I could read
    them and respond at length. I see that much of what I would have tried
    to say has been nicely covered by your wife and $Jeff Beck. I have
    finished the book now, and enjoyed it very much. I do agree that Sacks'
    personal opinions add much to the book, as you stated. The one instance
    I labeled improper was quite different than the others. His opinions are
    generally given on matters he is best qualified to judge, and backed with
    observations. In the matter of 'The President's Speech', he tells us, in
    the most strident of tones, that we were fooled, that we wanted to be
    fooled, and that only the brain-damaged remained unfooled. There is no
    observation that what was said was actually false, or even that anyone
    believed it. We are not told what speech it was or what it contained.
    We are just given the impression that this speech was evil in intent
    and irresistible in execution, except to those who saw only a magnified
    view of half its content.
       The ability of the speaking politician to 'also deliver the goods',
    and the listeners' assessment of that ability, determine whether or not
    the 'normals' were fooled. These things have nothing to do with the
    speech being lost on the mental patients. Their reactions do not justify
    Sacks' statement:'We normals-aided, doubtless, by our wish to be fooled-
    were indeed well and truly fooled. And so cunningly was deceptive word-use
    combined with deceptive tone, that only the brain-damaged remained intact,
    undeceived.' If it were that simple, Sacks would have been fooled himself,
    and would never have credited the patients with their insights.

    Message: 64285
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Stamp Drivel(tm)
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 00:01:05

            How come there is no one demanding more Stamp collecting drivel(tm)
    posts?  I changed the subject as requested... sniff(tm)   Sigh(tm)

    Drivel (tm) of Roger Mann
    Sniff (tm) of Cliff (Winters) Kolostow
    Sigh (tm) of Dean (Wesson Oil) McCarron

    Movie rights reserved by Apollo - Petrisko Enterprises Inc.

    Message: 64286
    Author: Tommy Leonardi
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: --->
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 01:50:48

         Before we go on vacation, let's talk about Julien.  I don't know much
    more thann you do...but I'll tell you how I feel.  He's now in good hands.
    Juvenile Welfare will find him a decent foster home.  Wherever he is, he'll
    be better off than his own home, where he was abused...in every sense of the
    term.  His mother will be declared unfit.  She will lose her maternal
    rights.  It may be a few years...before Julien is really free.  Free to come
    and go as he pleases.  Julien's case is so tragic that we cannot
    help...comparing our lives with his.  My own childhood...was less dramatic,
    but quite painful.  I couldn't wait to grow up!  I felt adults had all the
    rights...in shaping their own lives.  An unhappy adult...can start again
    from scratch.  But an unhappy child is helpless.  He may not know...how to
    put it in words, but he feels that...he cannot even contest...the adult's
    right to hurt him.  An unloved and battered child....invariably feels
    guilty.  That's what is so tragic!  Of all man's inequities...injustice to
    children...is the most despicable.  Life isn't always fair...but we can
    fight for justice.  It's the only way!  It's a slow process...but we do move
    forward...
         All people with power like to claim they're impervious to threats.  But
    they do give in to pressure.  All progress is the result of such pressure.
    Adults know a show of strength is the only way to get results.  I merely
    want to point out that when adults are really determined...they can improve
    their lot, but children's rights are ignored.  Political parties are not
    concerned with kids like Julien, or you.  Do you know why?  It's because
    children don't vote!

    If kids had the right to vote they'd have more playgrounds...better schools,
    or whatever.  You'd get them because they need your votes.  You could come
    to school later in winter, instead of rushing out before daylight.  I just
    want to say that because of my own memories, I feel kids rate a better deal.
    That's why I chose to become a schoolteacher.  Life isn't easy, it is tough.
    You must steel yourselves to face it.  I don't mean hard-boiled, I'm
    talking of stamina!  Some of us who've had a difficult childhood are
    better-equipped for adult life than those who were over-protected.  It's the
    law of compensation.  Life may be hard, but it's also wonderful.  When we're
    confined to sick-bed, we can't wait to get out and enjoy life.  That's how
    much we cherish it.
         You're about to go on vacation.  You will discover new places...and
    make new friends.  In September, you'll move up a grade.  We'll enroll both
    boys and girls.  Time flies.  Before long, you'll have kids of your own.  If
    you love them, they'll love you.  If they don't feel you love them, they'll
    transfer their affection to other people, or other things.  That's life!
    Each of us needs to feel love and to be loved.

         Well kids, school is over.  Have a happy vacation!

    Message: 64288
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: my Sig
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 02:16:49

    Glad to have it back. I've been busy the last couple of weeks. That's why I
    haven't been logging in.

    Message: 64289
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Roger Mann
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 02:33:55

    What 'Dildo' law are you talking about?

    Message: 64290
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Howard Gray
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 02:59:07

    I wasn't sure if yours was a one time alias, so I decided to post my
    response here to be certain that you would read it:

    At the end of the entry for the word "judgment" in my Webster's New
    Twentieth Century Unabridged Dictionary, we find the following note:

    "Also spelled judgement."

    Message: 64291
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Who...
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 03:03:43

    ...is "Julien" ?

    Message: 64292
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: card problem
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 03:08:06

    Gordon:

    The difference between our results was due to a rounding error, but on my
    part.  I divided 2019.39 by 4 and got 504.8475; but the actual number was
    2019.3939......when this is accounted for, our results match exactly
    (504.84......).  Of course, this does not materially effect the odds, and
    our observation still holds true, assuming we aren't missing something.

    Message: 64293
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/Uphill
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 04:15:00

    How did you know that Bob?

    In truth the ground was level although the school was one mile away and yes,
    we had to walk, rain or shine.  One mile there, home for lunch, back to
    school and home again.  Needless to say I have strong legs.

    Message: 64294
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Answer/Bob (4)
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 04:22:54

    Dear Bob,  This will be in answer to your four post comment to me.

    A Christian is a person who believes that in order to spend, after their
    physical death, all eternity in a place of peace and comfort, they must
    accept that they were created by an entity which they call God and
    furthermore that this God had a son who was sent to earth to be put to death
    by humanoids.  Also many, if not most, think that this God and this son are
    one in the same.

    The prime reason that these Christians believe this totally illogical myth
    is that they were taught it.  There is absolutely nothing save for dogma
    that supports it.  I personally think that it was originally intended to be
    a five act play that somehow got into the hands of a madman.  Or that it was
    written by several men at the bequest of a ruler so that the citizens could
    be be more effectively controlled.

    Because of our larger than ever population there are now more Christians
    living in the world and the state of the world speaks for this.  Either that
    or their is really only one Christian and he is in hiding somewhere.

    A freethinker does not a good Christian make.  I suspect that to determine
    what makes a good Christian something like hypnotic suggestion is used at an
    early age.  Youth are spoon fed lies starting from the crib and those who
    swallow will usually embrace whatever belief is taught, no matter how
    ridiculous it is.  As you know, this is an evident truth.

    The Moslem believes just as strongly as the Christian because they were
    taught to.  Both beliefs, in my opinion, are a compilation of thousands of
    years of fear and ignorance.

    You asked why I don't study your Bible again.  When, as a youth, I went
    looking for my inner roots I naturally turned to that which I heard most
    about, the Christian religion.  I was brought up on Christmas and Easter,
    along with their songs and stories so it was natural that I begin there.  I
    read that book and found, just as in any book, truths.  I studied and
    thought for myself on the subject but in that 'for myself' was my downfall.
    Because I hold logic in high esteem I had to forfeit that religion as
    basically an illogical mind game that made little sense.

    I grew up, and looked forward to, reading Grimm's Fairy Tales.  I think
    I've read them all.  Most are of across the sea origin just as the Christian
    Bible and both read basically the same.  I would be more prone to believe
    Grimm's though as the German's impress me more with their brand of non-logic
    than the Iranians.  At least one was not made to believe that a prince could
    be turned into a frog or vice-versa.

    And that is how, what you are asking others to believe, strikes me.

    As I said, when I read the Bible I took it as a whole sum.  I understood
    the spirit of the book just as when I read any other book or go to the
    theatre.  I don't try to break it down into sub-meanings.  I grasp the big
    picture and when it doesn't compute then I lay it aside.

    When Jesus said, 'It was written, eye for eye, etc., but now...etc., that
    to me says a change has been made, a change from the laws of the old to the
    new.  But to paraphrase Lippard and of late, Little, 'there are many a
    contradiction in that book.'  It is like the writers could not get their
    stories straight.  But they tried and they have perpetuated a mass hoax on
    civilization, for the time being.  Ignorance, at present, as evidenced by
    reality, is king.

    Perhaps two-thirds or more of the human population of the planet are
    religious in belief.  The majority has miserably failed.  Their deities are
    wimps.

    You suggest that I read the Bible again.  Neither will I watch The Hunt
    for Red October again.  Although there are some movies and books that I
    enjoy re-reading or viewing after a time, the bible is not one of them.  My
    first priority is that the subject or message must leave a good taste in my
    brain.

    You say that you do not know anyone who fights over the meanings in the
    bible.  Surely you jest.  Either that or you are hiding your head in the
    sand.  Check out the Christian SIG why don't you.  FACT is, here in the
    annals of Apollo, on this main board are enough 'anger spewing' debates
    between so-called Christians over interpretations of that book.  Would you
    care to see?

    It is my personal opinion that many of the troubles in today's world are
    religion generated.

    Thank you for welcoming me.  As one human to another it is good to be
    back.

    Message: 64298
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/Brain Drain
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 04:27:06

    Okay, I'll go along with what you say.

    Message: 3669
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Beyond...
    Subject: 1st porn macro
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 09:32:29

    $1 slowly $2 while $3 looked on with $4 in her
    $5.

    Message: 3670
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: James on sole
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 10:50:09

    No - I didn't know a soul - nor a sole person. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 3671
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Cliff on name
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 10:51:07

    Now that's a good name for this sig. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 3672
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod's attempts
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 22:03:07

    Interesting.
    I liked the reference to tight tummy muscles, of course, and candle light.
    You've got some potiential there, bud!  However, you seem to have misplaced
    the sexual organs.

    Message: 3673
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod's stories
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 03:10:41

    I think they were a riot (as they were intended to be).

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Cosmos-Chatter

    Subject:okay, last

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Make that a six inch tongue.  More realistic.
     2:
     3:Melissa:  I did the 'tummy muscle' part in your honor.
     4:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 3674

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:B

    *=* Public & Free Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 64299
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Kontest
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 04:30:59

    I think a 1990 Story Kontest Idea is great.  Perhaps this year we will have
    more entrants and bigger prizes.

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press  to abort

    Message: 1147
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: SysOp Speaks
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 00:18:56

            I thought I made myself clear I did not want SIGs named after users.
    I want a serious suggestion with a little maturity, but that looks like too
    much to ask.  I don't have to put up with this stress.....

    Sysop

    Message: 1148
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Question?
    Subject: SIG NAMES??
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 01:52:23

    I guess the "Rich Fohl Memorial SIG" is out.

    How about "Guns, Guts & Glory"?

    Message: 1149
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Shut Up Already!
    Subject: Harrumph!!!
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 04:42:00

    Yes Rod, you are being far too flippant and unruly...please adopt an
    appropriately dignified (moribund) attitude.

    Message: 1150
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff on this sig.
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 10:59:01

    How about the 'Speaking Out' sig? -=*) ANN (*=-

    P.S. 'Butthole's of Apollo' might be OK too. Hahahahahaha - just joking. so
    Many of us would have to leave if it were so named! hahahahahahahahaa.

    End of the Universe is OK also.

    Message: 1151
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Woofs & Wonders
    Subject: Sig name
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 22:01:20

    Well, the categories would need to be changed.  Dog shit, puppy swirls,
    Ron's thoughts, etc wouldn't really make sence.
    You put Nick and Zak's names back on their sigs.  Why wont you here?

    Message: 1152
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/27/90  Time: 23:44:41

            See, you now have given me the reason to remove Zak's & Nick's name
    from the SIGs.  The "He has a SIG, so why can't I have one too" syndrome

            Then J.T. will ask,"if they can have their SIGs back, where is mine"
            Then Spaz will Say...don't forget me...
            Then Michy Moo-Moo will show up and want her TEEn SIg back..
            then.....

                    This SIG is going to be destroyed...  it does not need a
    name for that.

    Message: 1153
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 02:19:56

    Sheesh....!  What a dweeb.

    Message: 1154
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: the SIG
    Date: 03/28/90  Time: 03:17:19

    In the mean time, it is rather entertaining to see what the SIG's new name
    will be on each logon.

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:ED

    You chose Dog Shit!!!

    Subject:NEW NAME GUESS

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:How about the SEIG SIG or the Dweeb SIG or the Young Communists for Christ
     2:SIG?
     3:
     4:Satan's Worshippers SIG?   Or since you have an X-Rated SIG call this the
     5:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXx-Rated SIG.  (only four letter words allowed)
     6:
     7:Typical message:  Fuck, Shit, Fuck, Shit.
     8:
     9:Or Shit, Fuck, Shit Fuck.
    10:
    11:Or Shit, Shit, Fuck, Fuck,  or Fuck, Fuck, Fuck, Shit or Shit, Shit, Shit,
    12:Fuck.
    13:
    14:Something to that effect would be nice.
    15:
    16:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 1155

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:ED

    You chose Dog Shit!!!

    Subject:Then again.

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:The I Eat Pussy SIG would be a clever name, no?
     2:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 1156

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:J
    1000 + Log-ons Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press  to abort

    Message: 13
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 01/25/90  Time: 19:07:22

    I did that 7 months ago.  I'd get Reach out America or some other calling
    plan.  2400 baud helps...

    Message: 14
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Millennium
    Subject: Wow!
    Date: 01/25/90  Time: 22:33:59

      Maybe I will pass Rod Williams login total.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 15
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: SUGGESTION
    Date: 01/26/90  Time: 01:58:20

    I suggest you change this to the "1100+ Log-ons" SIG so we can eliminate the
    riff-raff such as Zak Woodruff & Sandy.

    Message: 16
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 01/26/90  Time: 02:56:31

    Riff raff?  I've had just about enough of your flim-flam, Peter.

    Message: 17
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: getting a life
    Date: 01/26/90  Time: 03:54:04

    Amusing that JT thinks there is a connection between using BBSs and not
    "having a life." Maybe if I stop socializing altogether, I'll become
    omnipotent.

    Message: 18
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 01/29/90  Time: 20:59:36

    "Real" lifes are grossly overrated.  I had a real life, but I came back to
    Apollo.

    Message: 19
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Having a life
    Date: 01/30/90  Time: 21:36:05

    I have a life now, and it's great.

    Message: 20
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: JT/Last
    Date: 01/30/90  Time: 23:08:26

    Sure beats delivering pizzas, doesn't it?

    Message: 21
    Author: $ Dean McCarron
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Posts and Life
    Date: 02/03/90  Time: 17:20:59

    Actually, and most of that 5K logins was racked up before I got a life. Now,
    though, I have a life and I don't log in (or send messages) nearly as much.

    Dean

    Message: 22
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Last
    Date: 02/04/90  Time: 02:20:46

    You have a life!

    Wow!  Dean McCarron has a L I F E!  Call the press...

    Message: 23
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Logins/Life
    Date: 02/04/90  Time: 12:52:00

    Heh, the only board that rewards us for the anti-social computer overuse of
    our past.

    Message: 24
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 02/04/90  Time: 15:16:37

    Hey, the present for me!  I still have NO life....

    Message: 25
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Question?
    Subject: A Real Life
    Date: 02/04/90  Time: 21:32:13

    Why can't one have a real life AND participate in BBSes at the same time?

    Message: 26
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Todd/Answer
    Date: 02/04/90  Time: 22:17:59

    Well, when one has a login record of over 1000 logins, then the life is
    being compromised by the anti-life (computerholism).

    Message: 27
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 02/05/90  Time: 01:28:51

    But most of these log-ins are spread over 5 years...  That's not actually
    that many...  A little over one per day...

    Message: 28
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: The Anti-Life
    Date: 02/05/90  Time: 21:02:17

    Could it be....  SATAN!?

    Message: 29
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hawley/27
    Date: 02/05/90  Time: 21:14:55

    Who logs on a BBS more than once a day anymore? I'm lucky to even get the
    time to call once every other day.

    Message: 30
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Todd/CompuSatan
    Date: 02/05/90  Time: 21:15:59

    It could be. Is it true what I hear about the computers that read credit
    cards and UPC symbols? I hear that they run on an access code of 6-6-6.

    Message: 31
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: 666
    Date: 02/05/90  Time: 23:00:01

    Ronald Reagan's address is 666 St. Cloud (no lie).  Nancy changed it to 668
    for aesthetic reasons.  Ronald Reagan's first, middle, and last names have 6
    letters in them also.  Therefore, Ronald Reagan is the antichrist.  And this
    is the promised land.  Hallelujah, I guess.

    I don't have a life, I have an "almost life," and whatever it is that's
    missing from my "almost life" is what causes me to log into the BBS.  I hate
    to admit that I get some sort of weird satisfaction from BBSing that can be
    compared to an addiction, and I think it's sort of bad, but I can't see any
    tangible negative consequences from continuing to BBS.  So here I am,
    engaging in conversations with people who also have a compulsion to feed a
    floating electronic pool of words and thoughts.  It's just a merry-go-round
    of trivia, quips, debates and bullshit.  But until I add that missing
    element (if indeed that is an accurate assessment of things), I will
    continue to get in here and play.  Oh boy.
         I'd like to hear more from those of you who "have a life," about what
    you think caused you to continually BBS and what caused you to not BBS.
    What does it mean to "have a life?"  I mean, what are the minimum
    requirements?

         Or did you just get tired of debating drug legalization, the existence
    of god, and whether or not it's OK to burn a piece of cloth with stars and
    stripes on it?

    Message: 32
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zak/Reagan666
    Date: 02/06/90  Time: 09:15:53

    I always kind of wondered about that, though Reagan makes for a pretty wimpy
    anti-christ. Falls asleep alot, too.

    Message: 33
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zak on BBSing
    Date: 02/06/90  Time: 10:34:10

    I BBS because it is a way of socializing without leaving home. In my life
    it's hard to meet people being a housewife and I do not like coffee klatches
    with the neighbors either because I have nothing in common with them. It has
    been hard for me to make friends because of my husbands business - only his
    helpers and their wives are available and he does not like to socialize with
    them and work with them at the same time. Also, through the written word I
    feel much bolder in stating my opinions. Also, I can meet people that share
    the same opinions as I do. Addicting? Yes, to me it is and I love the
    addiction! I have a routine - get up and dressed, drink coffee and scan the
    paper and then log on. Heaven help anyone that disrupts that routine!!! I
    become cranky for the rest of the day. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 34
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: BBSing
    Date: 02/06/90  Time: 15:00:04

            I do it because.... It started out as a get back at John Dykstra for
    saying "You can't run a BBS on a TRASH-80".  Then I found out it was fun so
    I kept it going...  then when I wanted to shut it down, I was the oldest on
    line BBS in the state... and just to be nasty to the other Sysops that are
    sitting there waiting for me to pull the plug, I keep it going.
            Another reason is I have made many good friends on here...  I have
    learned many things, including how to spell better. (Some won't believe
    that)
            The Apollo System is part of me.....

                    Cliff

    Message: 35
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/07/90  Time: 00:00:52

    Want to play some Dungeon Master?

    Message: 37
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Millennium
    Subject: Dungeon Master
    Date: 02/07/90  Time: 15:17:54

    Shut up, James.

    Message: 38
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Junction 80
    Date: 02/07/90  Time: 23:36:40

    Anyone remember when he was running a temporary BASIC program letting users
    know that the system was temporarily offline? Sure was fun ing the
    program and adding a few new PRINT lines of our own. Ah, what a concept.
    User-modifiable BBS!

    Message: 39
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 00:52:07

    Yeah, that was fun.  I even remember a few other BBSs that you could do
    that.  Though they weren't exactly doing it on purpose...

    Message: 40
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 02:50:06

    Did someone mention Rick Arthur?

    Message: 41
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: funny BBSes
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 03:01:33

         What's even better is when the sysop accidentally gives you sysop-level
    status and you can go in and look at all the other users' passwords.  This
    actually happened (I won't give any details), and me and a few others had a
    ball with it.

    Message: 42
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 05:30:37

    Whatever happened to Rob kocak and those fun lovin' Christians on The Ark?

    Message: 43
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Millennium
    Subject: Virgin user
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 15:10:02

            Please welcome the newest Millennium user...Beauregard DOG!
    He may be wet behind the ears, but he's a smart dog, and will learn quickly.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    P.S.  It's his next log in that will be the 1000th!

    Message: 44
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Millennium
    Subject: BEAU
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 17:06:24

    Congrats, Beau!  Now you too can be a geek!  Welcome!

    Message: 45
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Millennium
    Subject: This is it!
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 17:26:12

    Thanks, Zak!  But, hey, I thought that I already *was* a geek?

    life? What life?

    Message: 46
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Apollo
    Date: 02/08/90  Time: 17:26:43

    I thought that you continued to run Apollo so that you could keep up with
    your mortgage payments.

    Message: 47
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zak/Last
    Date: 02/09/90  Time: 07:50:48

    Tsk tsk tsk. Heh heh, or when you get access to modify or upload new system
    bulletins, logon screens, etc.

    Message: 48
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rick Arthur
    Date: 02/11/90  Time: 16:24:21

    I was so pissed off.  I paid $100 for Rolling Stones tickets, and when I got
    to the concert it turned out Jagger had laryngitis, and standing in for him
    was..... Rick Arthur!

    Message: 49
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Millennium
    Subject: Pecking Order
    Date: 02/18/90  Time: 08:30:47

     0    Times Called List Updated 02/17/90
     1,014 Sandy Sysop
     1,022 Beauregard Dog
     1,108 Pat Stoddard
     1,124 Dean Hathaway
     1,125 Jim Williams
     1,132 Zak Woodruff
     1,176 Bill Burkett
     1,269 Daryl Westfall
     1,357 Rod Williams
     1,549 Peter Petrisko
     1,636 Mike McNeill
     1,647 Todd Reese
     1,690 David Burkhart
     1,841 Ann Oudin
     1,911 Michael James
     2,253 James Hawley
     2,379 James Taranto
     2,423 Chris Zagar
     3,239 Nick Ianuzzi
     3,537 Jim Lippard
     5,048 Dean McCarron
    15,955 Apollo Sysop

    Message: 50
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff on last list
    Date: 02/18/90  Time: 10:20:43

    I'm still amazed at Dean McCarron's 5,048 log ons. Where the heck is he
    anyway? If he is logging on that much, he isn't saying much.
                                   \\* ANN *//

    Message: 51
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 02/18/90  Time: 23:31:48

         He's been logging on wesson he used to.

    Message: 52
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 08:27:54

    nyuk nyuk.  But he still logs on quite a bit.

    Message: 53
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zakey baby
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 10:17:08

    We're not starting up with the Wesson Oil story again are we? Gads, poor
    Dean! I haven't lived down my slip with 'The High and the Nighty'! He
    doesn't have a chance to live down the Wesson oil business - which of course
    was much more personal - sexy - scandalous. *Heh \\* ANN *//

    Message: 54
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 23:16:15

    If Dean ever ran for public office we could make a killing.

    Message: 55
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Me
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 01:51:03

    My life is much more interesting since I quit logging on.
    That's backwards, of course -- since my life is so interesting, I don't have
    time to log on. I'm not sure "interesting" is the right word, either. Try
    "exhausting."

    Message: 56
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Question?
    Subject: This SIG
    Date: 03/02/90  Time: 22:32:16

    Uhhh, has the novelty worn off?  Should we use this SIG to arrange a
    [SUP]erGeek GT (only those with 1000 or more *real* logins invited!)

    Message: 57
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/03/90  Time: 01:15:29

    To be a SuperGeek you REALLY need 2000 log-ins!

    Message: 58
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 03/03/90  Time: 02:34:43

    Looking at Cliff's list, I'd definitely have to say the ones with 2,000 or
    more logons are the geekiest.  You guys should have a GT, but I don't want
    to even try to suggest what you should do with yourselves there.

    Message: 59
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Michael James
    Date: 03/03/90  Time: 02:36:43

    Michael James will soon be a SuperGeek.  But at the rate I'm going, I may
    just catch him.  I may be only a MiniGeek now, but watch out.  I'm going to
    kick your geek asses.

    Message: 60
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zak/58
    Date: 03/05/90  Time: 22:23:05

    Maybe we could rent the Star Wars trilogy and pop some popcorn. Oh yeah, and
    wear your Star Trek outfit.

    Message: 61
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/05/90  Time: 23:31:01

    Star Trek outfits to a STAR WARS trilogy?  I think not.

    Message: 62
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 03/06/90  Time: 03:53:50

    Major faux pas.

    Message: 63
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: geek GT
    Date: 03/06/90  Time: 04:12:26

    How about a Star Trek pentology?

    1000 + Log-ons Bulletin Board command:E?

    [A]nswer!                [C]hit-Chat
    [M]illennium             [Q]uestion?

    Enter category,  for list:C

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Log ons

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Once upon a time in the land of The Late Reverand Nuclear in the Days of
     2:Apollo I was kicked off this system and my log-ins were erased never to
     3:appear again.  I had quite a few to my credit too4S8I5$a`VP\wR
     {'yqtuh~Ds+/lE
    OPl\5_C@~
    NO CARRIER
    (NOTE: The switch was pulled; the modem from the other end was unplugged or
    some strange gremlins go into the wiring.  Did Cliff do this?)e

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