### Apollo BBS Archive - October 15 - 25, 1989

    Message: 61573
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: $Rich$ Fohl
    Date: 10/15/89  Time: 00:33:31

    "Ozone research laboratory" (tm)
    "Ozona reactor" (tm)
    "Pizza Gt"
    "Terror Thru Science"
    Secret Letter Bomb Factory.
    $Gail
    $Rich$
    $99 bottles of beer on the wall
    $bounced!
    "Big Baah-loo-ba"
    $Wendy
    "Get real"
    "Jam city on channel 14"
    "get the &%$#! off the air"
    "One moment while I crank up the linear.."
    "HELLLL--LLLOOOOO??"
    "It sure is dark out there"

    "I'll be back after I fix this turd on 14.."

    Message: 61574
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/15/89  Time: 08:25:36

    Congratulations on the pin. A 90% isn't too shabby there.-=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61575
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on 90%
    Date: 10/15/89  Time: 09:30:48

    90 % was needed to earn the pin.  You have to do this 3 times in a row on
    different days.  I believe I got a 93.88 %.

    The next higher class is EXPERT (now that I have done Basic, Intermediate
    and Advanced hand gun and self defence) and that starts in mid November.

    Just maybe.... I will be able to catch up with Sandy when I complete that
    one.   (I only said maybe, she is in Distinguished Masters after all)
    Then again, maybe not!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61576
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: $tatus Membership
    Date: 10/15/89  Time: 11:08:16

            To answer a letter and to make sure there is no confusion.
    Yes, you can pay for membership by mail (see post 61571) or you can come in
    person if you wish.  If you live on the North Side of Phoenix, this may be
    convenient for you.  You can even see Apollo the BBS itself.

    Questions on membership... give me a call at 843-3346

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    P.S.  You $tatus users who use other boards, please tell anyone you can that
    Apollo $tatus is on a half price sale this month.  ($6.00 for 12 months)

                                    Thanks!

    Message: 61577
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: Saying
    Date: 10/15/89  Time: 15:44:20

            If you can't dazzle them with brilliance,
            Then baffle them with bull$#!+

                    Speaking of bull$#!+, where is ROD!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61578
    Author: Profound Pete
    Category: For sale
    Subject: $tatus
    Date: 10/15/89  Time: 23:41:58

    Good deal!

    Message: 61580
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Boredom
    Date: 10/16/89  Time: 15:05:34

    This system is starting to get incredibly boring.  If people don't start
    entering messages (and religious debates and boring arguments about Arizona
    and Phoenix politics don't count), I'm going to stop wasting my time by
    calling.

    Message: 61581
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last J.T. on boredom
    Date: 10/16/89  Time: 15:17:31

            Gee James, you are at the News Capital of the world....  how about
    you telling us what is going on...and maybe we can argue with you.

            You want National Politics?  But we know they are all beyond
    reproach, so it is difficult to argue their idea's or ideals!  Why just the
    other day Paul Savage and Ann Oudin were telling me all is well in the US of
    A.  The only thing corrupt is Mecham and the United States Postal Service.

            J.T., what are tomorrows headlines going to be?  We can get the jump
    on the news!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61582
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Boredom
    Date: 10/16/89  Time: 20:52:36

    Wow,
      I was really bored there for a while. Now that J.T. may stop calling, the
    suspense is absolutely riveting. Keep up the good work!
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 61583
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: jt's boredom
    Date: 10/16/89  Time: 21:06:13

    Poor thing.

    Message: 61585
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hawley
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 01:36:01

    He's around.

    HB

    Message: 61587
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 01:38:13

    And if we find YOU boring?  We can't even turn you off!

    HB

    Message: 61588
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 01:39:09

    Get the stupid $tatus membership, already.  You've got a d membership
    coming.

    HB

    Message: 61589
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: fascinating tidbits
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 03:17:23

    The crust on Mars is much thicker than the Earth's. As a result there is
    almost no tectonic motion.

    People with tinnitus may diminish the ringing by avoiding common foods, such
    as, wheat, corn, and soy.

    Dan Quayle prefers Jimi Hendrix over Jim Morrison, simply because he never
    heard of Morrison.

    Message: 61590
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bored J.T.
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 05:35:45

    "If people don't start entering messages", etc.
    Gee James, and here I thought you were people all along! Oh well, there goes
    another image shattered.
     By the way, what's the thinking in Sin City, D.C. about McCain and
    DeConcini and their ties to Charlie Keating? Matter of fact, what are yours?

    Message: 61591
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: CLIFF!
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 05:39:20

     The USPS isn't corrrupt! Just incredibly inefficient since I left, but not
    corrupt. Now Ev is another matter. That's corruption multiplied!
     I don't know which smells worse, Ev Mecham or the sewage treatment plant on
    Lower Buckeye when the wind is blowing in the right (wrong?) direction.

    Message: 61592
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/telling you
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 08:00:25

    I don't know what Paul told you, but I did not tell you all is well in the
    US of A! It isn't even fair to middling!

    As for JT's boredom - if he posted more than one line quips all the time, he
    might start a nice discussion - or better yet, a heated one! He is just one
    of those people that think the world owes him or something. You know - the
    'gimmie' generation! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61593
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Question?
    Subject: REALLY bored
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 08:49:32

    Has anyone else noticed how much Charles "Chuckles" Keating is beginning to
    resemble Paul's grandfather in "A Hard Day's Night"?

    Message: 61594
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Heather
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 17:25:04

    Oh, but you DO turn me off.

    Message: 61595
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Savage
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 17:25:41

    Mr. Keating is, if I understand correctly, a wealthy Arizona businessman who
    contributes to Arizona politicians.

    Message: 61597
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Lunch GT
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 20:38:44

            Apollo "LUNCH" GT for Friday the 20th at Manuel's Mexican Restaurant
    on Bell Road & 13th Ave.   I am buying for any Apollo users who show up.
    Leave me mail for more info.  We could meet at Cliff's house at 1:00pm.

    Message: 61598
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 10/17/89  Time: 20:52:45

    God hates baseball.

    Message: 61601
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT/Keating
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 05:34:19

     Charlie is an entrepreuner whose wealth seems now to have come from the
    accounts of the many investors in Lincoln S&L who fell for the free
    toasters, or whatever. True, he did contribute heavily to some political
    coffers, not only in Arizona, but California as well, and perhaps other
    places he thought would be to his benefit.
     Now all the beneficiaries are scrambling for microphones to protest their
    purity and righteousness. If it wasn't so pitiful, it would even be funny.

    Message: 61602
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: San Francisco
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 05:37:55

     We watched CNN for hours last evening, in shock and sadness. This is hardly
    a time for criticism, but something has to be said for people who build on
    known geographic faults that are bound to shift.
     The last report I heard was something like 53 dead on the Bay bridge alone,
    and no way to count totals for the collapsed buildings, fires, etc. Really a
    tragic situation.

    Message: 61603
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/quake
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 07:44:47

    I never understood why anyone would want to live on a fault! I read a time
    ago that they actually dredged out parts of the San Andreas river (which was
    created by the fault) and built houses on it. Being from L.A. - which we
    considered earthquake country, that was bad enough - we always had at least
    2 quakes a year that we could feel, but S.F. is like playing Russian
    Roulette! I was surprised to find they have so many of the old buildings
    too. You'd think that would be top priority to raze them and put in Quake
    proof buildings. (Of couse, in the long run, nothing is truly quake proof!)
    I head that brick facade fell and killed six people! I wouldn't be surprised
    to hear that the death toll goes beyond that of 1906. How sad.
                             -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61604
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: finding fault
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 11:12:00

    Donya, who has often stated there will be some sort of nuclear holocaust
    in the next few years, is moving to a suburb of San Fransisco.

    Message: 61605
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Donya
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 15:51:56

    I always liked Donya, for she is such an optimist.

    Message: 61606
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Peter
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 17:35:10

    Re:  "God hates baseball."

    I don't think so.  Baseball is mentioned in the Old Testament.

    Gensis 1:1  In the big inning

    Message: 61607
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 17:36:53

    Re:  "Now all the beneficiaries are scrambling for microphones to protest
    their purity and righteousness.

    I expected as much from Dennis, but I was surprised about McCain.

    Message: 61608
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Users?
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 18:39:48

            Did we lose half our users in the earthquake?

    That is something...the Nimits Highway crushed cars better than the car
    crushers can do at a wrecking yard... and the ones in Calif., still even had
    their engines in them.

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61609
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Quake coverage
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 22:54:20

    I didn't watch any of it.  In fact, I'm rather upset that it pre-empted
    "Love Connection".

    I don't know anyone in SF, and the fact is, as disasters go, it was pretty
    small.  People die every day in vast droves, and the news-vultures fly from
    one carcass to another just as fast as their scrawny wings can carry them.
    I see no point in wallowing in all the morbid details.  I am aware that
    there was a quake in California: therefore I consider myself informed.

    Message: 61610
    Author: Jay Cooper
    Category: War!
    Subject: the quake
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 23:04:14

    The terrible swift sword of the mighty horseman has descended in a smooth
    arc through the land of the sodomites.  They have sown the seeds of sin and
    unnatural lust for decades.  The Lord has only so much patience, ya know.
    Sure they're Jolly Rogers until they answer for their crime.  Yes, He'll
    match them whim for whim now,  weeeeooooo.

    And now, I would like to discuss the death of William the Conquerer.  On his
    way to a reducing spa, the obese king of England was injured on his horse.
    He acquired an internal abcess that festered, killed him, and at his funeral
    caused him to explode, the stench of rotted innards driving worshipers from
    the church in haste.

    Some five centuries later, a bunch of Huguenots, in an act of futile spite,
    dug his bones up and strewed them about the courtyard of St. Stephen's
    Church, where he had been buried.

    Message: 61611
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Heather
    Date: 10/18/89  Time: 23:24:30

    I'm waiting for us to win the lottery before I can afford $tatus
    membership!

    Message: 61612
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: earthquake
    Date: 10/19/89  Time: 03:42:54

    First reports said that the San Andreas fault was the culprit. Seismologists
    were surprised to find that the fault had only shifted approximately 10
    centimeters, when they had expected about 2 meters of movement. Apparently,
    an undiscovered fault is to blame.

    Message: 61613
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/quakeproof
    Date: 10/19/89  Time: 06:16:24

     There is going to be a major investigation, I hear, into the building of
    many of the area freeways, including 880, which were supposed to be
    quakeproof. Some of the horror stories coming out of that concrete and steel
    sandwich are unbelievable. I shudder to think of it, and the death toll is
    already over 300, and that is just an estimate based on the number of people
    who still have not been accounted for. It may be weeks before we really know
    how many bodies are under the rubble. Sad indeed.

    Message: 61614
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: What's this I heard?
    Date: 10/19/89  Time: 07:01:56

    According to an article in the Enquirer (this one for some strange
    reason, I believe!) Kenneth Bianchi, a confessed mass murderer of at
    least 7, possibly 10 young women - is upset because he got married in
    prison on Sept. 21 to a Shirlee Book and the prison officials won't
    let him have a conjugal visit from his new bride in a trailer on
    prison grounds! The article goes on to say that he is serving 2 life
    sentences - which will keep him behind bars until 2005. The bride is
    bemoaning that they were told they could have the conjugal visit
    anytime after 30 days from the wedding date, but the honeymoon is off
    and their dreams are being 'torn apart'! She goes on to say "it's not
    fair, but we both have hopes! Ken's been studying law and he thinks we
    still have a chance. We won't give up easily. We'll keep fighting for
    what we feel is right for us - being together as husband and wife."
    Veltry Johnson, chief information officer for Washington State's Dept.
    of corrections said, "Unless he sues, the is no way his application
    will be reconsidered. The honeymoon is off!"
    Crime is definitely paying off now! Here a guy kills at least 7 people
    - serving 2 life sentences and gets out in 16 years??!! He will be 54
    at the time - fairly young. The prison allows conjugal visits?  Has a
    trailer for that purpose? Allowed him to get married to begin with and
    he also has 'suing rights'? That's better than horse privileges or the
    privilege to drive a vehicle! Hell - I think I'll go rob a bank today!
                               -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61615
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Carter...
    Date: 10/19/89  Time: 15:08:41

            Lottery????   Why did you not read my message that $tatus is on SALE
    this month at 1/2 price...  that is only a piddley $6.00 bucks... for a
    WHOLE years $tatus!   No joke...but this month ONLY!

            You can do this by mail...or drop it off in person.  More info, just
    call me at 843-3346.

            Lottery, indeed!  .... humph!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61616
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Quake
    Date: 10/19/89  Time: 20:59:46

    An hour after the quake, I talked to my friend Ken Feinstein from Los
    Angeles who is a freshman at UC Berkeley.  (I got through by dialing via
    ITT).  He was OK and reported no major damage in his vicinity, but he had
    been unable to call his parents in L.A., so I used three-way calling to get
    his mother on the line.  Last night I talked to Bilj (Brad Johnson), a
    former Apollo user who moved to San Francisco because he is homosexual.  (I
    had to use ITT to get through to him, too.)  Bilj lives in the city of San
    Francisco but works in San Jose, and was at the office when the quake
    struck.  He was uninjured, as was his residence, and he has in fact
    continued to commute between home and work.  Today, I got a call from Ed
    Meese, who was in Phoenix when the quake hit but is now in Palo Alto.  He
    told me Stanford suffered a lot of incidental damage -- fallen bookshelves
    and the like -- but nothing too serious.

    I also heard this evening, but have not confirmed with an official source,
    that this weekend's 49ers-Patriots game is being played at Stanford rather
    than the Stick.  I'll keep you posted.

    Message: 61617
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: News/Quake
    Date: 10/19/89  Time: 23:29:00

            The news media still amazes me. Here, I thought they had hit bottom
    with their morals and sensitivity levels and they pull a fast one on me.
    They were able to dig themselves deeper into their hole.
            Those greedy SOBs are using this disaster to raise their ratings.
    I do not think they really care about the feelings of the victims or the
    feelings of us for that matter. They want high ratings and, if he/she be so
    lucky, instant anchorman or anchorwoman.
            What have the news media transformed themselves into?

    Message: 61618
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: SYSOP!
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 00:19:07

    "...offer good only to ***NEW*** users.."

    Message: 61619
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann / prison post
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 00:29:42

    Isn't that special ??
    Humans remain humans, crime or not. Conjugal, a word beginning with
    "CON" is a placebo. Prisons work on a hierarchy of political power
    derived from priviledges and personal interactions..much like free
    society. To expect the prison officials to simply  lock someone up
    and "that's all folks" is begging for daily riots.
    No matter how heinious the crime, odious the slimeball, obnoxious the
    personalities, you still must maintain respect and give respect
    for individual people.
    As far as the "conjugal" visitation honeymoon is concerned, I'm with you
    on that one. My heart bleeds for the bastard.
    Any CON can get married...seems like I hear this story more often these
    days. It's a ploy to gain public outcry and sympathy for the scheeming,
    insidious $#!+head behind it. I'd venture to say that a good 40%
    of these pre-prison weddings are simply that. To gain extra benefits
    for the felon inside and the "go-along" on the outside. If one were to
    research this a little, I'd bet a corvette that there is "SPECIAL"
    allowances and extra pay involved if you are imprisoned and are married.
    Back to my soap box for humanity....

    "Eat death, felonious scheeme artist"

    Message: 61620
    Author: Dale Evans
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Sandy/quake news
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 00:36:30

    I quite agree.  They have no respect whatsoever.  Nothing is too
    sensational; as long as it sells.  A case in point is the news story about
    the young boy whose mother perished in the same car accident in which he was
    injured.  I needn't continue, as you most likely know the rest of the story.

    Of course, this is nothing new.

    Message: 61621
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 04:54:02

     Interesting info there. I thoght that Candlestick was declared safe, and
    that the series will resume next week. How come the 49ers are moving?

    Message: 61622
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sandy/ratings
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 04:57:00

    Ratings are conducted by independant pollsters, regardless of what the
    networks are broadcasting.
     I think they have all done a yeomans job of reporting the S.F./Oakland
    tragedy, and they all deserve recognition. I doubt that greed entered into
    the picture at all. We have just seen a terrific example of dedicated people
    doing their jobs in a professional way.

    Message: 61623
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike Carter...
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 08:52:03

            Are you a ****CURRENT**** user?   NO!  By new, I ment it could not
    be used for renewal or a year extention to a current member.  You have NO
    profile left on Apollo.  You would be a NEW user as far as Mr Slone the
    Third is concerned.

            I have spoken!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61624
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: News Media
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 08:59:41

            They have made it bigger than it really is. You would think from
    reading some of the headlines the next day that California had slid into the
    sea.  If it had not been for Highway 880, there would not have been that
    much to report.  Hurricane Hugo killed more people!

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61625
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Ann Oudin?
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 12:02:10

            Sniff.... even Ann has left...  PHANTOM Zone for her!   Humph!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61626
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sandy/media
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 15:16:47

    Boy, are you right there. What a bunch of vultures. Ted Koppel was the
    worse. He sounded like he could hardly wait for the death statistics to
    start rolling in. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61627
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Mike?
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 15:20:05

    What do you mean "special allowances and extra pay involved if you are
    imprisoned and are married??? You mean the sucker gets a salery while in
    prison? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61628
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 15:22:37

    you've seen 'a terrific example of dedicated people doing their jobs in a
    professional way'? You gotta be kidding! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61629
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/the media
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 15:24:19

    Before I went to bed, I heard one reporter say over 200 had died and another
    reporter said over 400! This was in a 15 minute period too.
                    -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61630
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliffy/it's me!
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 15:26:32

    No, I didn't/wouldn't leave Apollo. We had a big garage sale this morning
    and I was out getting the stuff ready at 5:AM! This is the first break I've
    had. At least sold over $250 worth of goodies (junk)! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61631
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on JT?
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 16:05:56

    Ann, your post telling "Taranto, he has to be kidding" is aimed at the WRONG
    person.  Paul Savage is the one who thinks "the media are dedicated people
    doing their jobs in a professional way"....   Remember..Paul Savage bought
    hook, line and sinker what the Media has spread about Mecham.   I personaly
    no longer even subscribe to the "Repulsive" or the "GaZoo" for the lies they
    have spread.

            The trouble with the media, is sometimes they try to make the news
    rather then just report the news.  They grab their viewers/readers by the
    nose and lead them to their way of thinking.  Slanted JOURNALISM!

            Ann, screw your head on straight....and APOLLO-gize to poor J.T.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61632
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Todays GT
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 16:12:13

            Thanks to those who showed up at the lunch GT for a great time.
    James Hawley as promised, did pay for all at Manuel's fine Mexican
    Restaurant, re: message # 61597.

            Thanks to Dean Hathaway for leaving the rather large tip.....
    But then anyone who puts up with an Apollo GT earns it!

            Sandy and I are quite full...  Did anyone keep count as to how many
    bowls of chips we went through?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61633
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 18:54:55

    It's only a lousy $10 Mike!  And I think Cliff has a special on now for $6.
    A one time good deal!  I spend more than that in one month on GEnie.

    Message: 61634
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 18:59:30

    Re:  "the honeymoon is off and their dreams are being 'torn apart'!

    It really breaks me up.  Especially when I think about the "dreams" of the 7
    to 10 young girls he murdered.  I adhere to "Ralph's Solution" in this type
    of case.

    Message: 61635
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 19:10:38

    Re:  "No matter how heinious the crime, odious the slimeball, obnoxious the
    personalities, you still must maintain respect and give respect
    for individual people."

    The first answer that come's to my mind is not permitted on this BBS.  I
    probably wouldn't say it even if it were.  I have tried to come up with an
    equivalent answer, but nothing seems to quite come up to these two
    popular words.  If I were to say the two words, you all would know
    immediately, exactly how I feel about the above statement.  Instead I will
    give another answer.  My answer is, "I disagree".  People should get what
    they deserve.  And the man in question definitely does not deserve _any_
    respect!

    Message: 61636
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/20/89  Time: 19:12:30

    Re:  "even Ann has left...  PHANTOM Zone for her!"

    Ann is in the Phantom Zone??  What did she do??

    Message: 61637
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Oct 21, 1984
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 00:41:49

            This was the date five years ago that Richard L. Fohl, 26, was
    murdered by Benjamin Pikulski at 2814 W. Bethany Home Road.  Rich Fohl was
    shot once in the chest and was dead at the scene.  Rich was a $tatus user on
    Apollo and was active on several other boards and a regular at GTs'.

            We remember you Rich, where ever you may be.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61638
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 01:02:43

    Re: "I disagree"

    You can disagree, but the bible says otherwise....

    Message: 61639
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: 10 bucks!!!
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 01:04:36

    Even if it were $2.00, I'd still have to win the lottery the way
    my wife has the budget cut nowadays.

    Message: 61640
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/news
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 05:28:30

     A 6.9 quake in a heavily populated area is news in anybody's book. If you
    don't think that 100+ year old homes destroyed, people not allowed back into
    their homes even to get personal belongings because of the danger, more
    people crushed to death under a collapsing freeway, a section of one of the
    most famous and heavily travelled bridges in the US collapsing, city block
    wide fires and thousands of people injured and/or homeless is not
    newsworthy, you are too calloused.
     The quake will, without a doubt, go down as one of if not the most
    traumatic news stories of the year. Why belittle the media for doing their
    job? My hat's off to them for excellent coverage.

    Message: 61641
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: War!
    Subject: Cliff!
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 05:42:48

     What the h-e-double-cuesticks does CNNs or CBSs coverage of the S.F. quake
    got to do with the R&Gs coverage of the most miserable state administration
    Arizona has ever seen?
     I watched CNN for hours Tuesday after the quake, and saw with my own eyes
    the devastation of I880, the break in the Bay bridge, the fires and
    collapsing buildings in the area, and the people wandering around, dazed and
    in disbelief of what had happened to their city. The reporting was as
    precise and factual as was available to the media at the time. Thank God,
    figures changed when it was realized that traffic on 880 was not as heavy as
    it normally would have been at that hour, thanks at least in part to the
    world series game at Candlestick park. All the media I saw reported the news
    as it was made available, and did an excellent job of it.
     As to the R&G and Mecham, of course they slanted the articles to reflect
    their contempt and disdain for the most miserable excuse for a governor this
    state has probably ever had. What they didn't do was lie about him. They
    didn't have to! They have criticized Mofford too, but I would rather have
    her in the governor's chair for the next 20 years than suffer even one more
    day of Mecham!
     Anyway, quit comparing apples with onions. The two coverages are totally
    unrelated. I still think that the media I watched and read did a great job
    on the quake. Period.

    Message: 61642
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 05:46:50

     Re: the treatment, or "respect" of the rapist/murderer and the fool who
    married him. You stated that "the Bible says otherwise"?
     If he got Biblical justice, he would not have lived long enough to even
    think about conjugal visits!

    Message: 61643
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul...
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 06:52:33

           "A" city block fire... not city block fires.  A collapsed section of
    a bridge...  Not a bridge collapsing...  Boy Paul, you sound just like
    'them'...   you know 'REPORTERS'!
            Have you knoticed the number of deaths originally reported are going
    'DOWN'....?   Sure it needs reporting, but how many times, and how much are
    they going to linger on it?   Did you hear the mayor of the stricken city
    say he needs to figure out a plan how to deal with the 'Thousands' of
    reporters that swoop down on the city and GET IN THE WAY OF EMERGENCY
    VEHICLES?

            I am not callous, and I do feel for the people injured and made
    homeless.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61644
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on JT
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 09:30:19

    'CRUNCH! TWIST! SCREW!' There, I've got my head on straight and I do
    apologize to JT for aiming that post at him. It was a mistake in typo
    because I knew it was Paul! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61645
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/GT
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 09:31:25

    What lucnch GT? Why wasn't I informed - why wasn't I invited?
                                -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61646
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/prisoners
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 09:50:31

    I think once they are in prison, they should not be abused, beaten or
    mistreated. But the word 'respect' just doesn't apply. They certainly
    shouldn't be able to get married or have conjugal visits. I don't even
    believe they should be able to write books and make money doing so. I always
    thought they should work and pay for their keep and the prison. Why should
    the tax payers be stuck with that? If that particular guy got two
    consecutive life sentences, then he should spend the rest of his life there
    no matter how good he is. If a person gets say 10 years, he should be
    learning a way to make a living while there instead of turning to a life of
    crime again when he gets out. I know of a guy, in fact, he was my next door
    neighbor for two years - he robbed 6 banks - the last one, he got caught and
    shot in the leg. When his trial came up, the subject of his other 5
    robberies couldn't be brought up in court (for the life of me I can't
    imagine why) and through plea bargaining, he got 9 years with chance for
    parole in two! He robbed these banks with a gun also! From all the people we
    have talked to - there is a underlying sense of feeling sorry for the poor
    guy that he got such a stiff sentense! How unfair the courts were, etc.!
    This guy shot the gun off above a woman & child's head to scare them off and
    that's why a bank guard shot him. He'll probably get off in two years. I say
    he should get 20 years and stay put! His son actually came over and wanted
    us to sign a paper stating how good the guy was when he lived next door. We
    didn't! He was a lazy bum then too. Friends of his down the street wouldn't
    sign it either. This is a classic example of the law system at it's finest!
                               -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61647
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/the media
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 09:53:24

    The media 'just' didn't do their job. They 'ad-libbed' it a bit! When the
    real horror hadn't came in yet, they reported it anyway! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61648
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/reporting
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 10:00:41

    Your quote: "Thank God, figures changed when it was realized that traffic on
    880 was not as heavy as it normally would have been ..."
    But don't you see what we're talking about from your above sentence? The
    media had already said anywhere from 200 to 400 people were under that
    bridge! Ted Koppel was already bemoaning their deaths before he knew the
    truth. That's called 'sensationalism'! The only good part of all this is
    that we can be glad he wasn't right! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61649
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/more
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 10:06:28

    It is one thing to report on someone getting crushed in a building and it is
    another for a reporter to be right there when they bring them out and have
    the camera right in their multilated face so that we can see the blood and
    gore and the smashed body! The people that watch and listen can feel for
    these people - the horror of a quake - the devestation - the homeless - the
    helplessness - without the gory details! Personally, I get the impression
    that the news media was a little disappointed it all wasn't worse! They
    certainly made it so. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61651
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Question?
    Subject: BBSes?
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 21:24:30

            Just how many NEW Bulletin Board Systems does this Valley of the Sun
    need?   I have noticed over the last few weeks, that the board has been
    slow, but every few days I seem to see a "NEW BBS" post.   I remember in the
    old days (81,82 & 83) you could count the Valley systems on your fingers.
    There was the Arizona BBS, Cactus Net, the original Call-A-Lawyer, Omega,
    Apollo, followed by Blax-80, Genesis, System X, Steller III, Coconet,
    The Garden of Eden and of course...Voyager VI other wise know as the
    'Elevator', as it kept going up and down.

            We knew each other (the Sysops) by name for most part.  We even had
    a meeting where we must have signed Arizona's FIRST BBS Charter.  The
    Charter was signed by eight Sysops and the ninth Sysop refused, but signed
    a 'Godfathers Pizza' napkin to the fact he attended.  I am the holder of
    that Charter...(and the napkin) and it reads as follows:

                    Arizona SYSOPs CHARTER
    We SYSOPs will attempt to run our BBS's in good taste and use general rules
    of COURTESY towards all users, providing they in turn are COURTEOUS towards
    us and others.

    Trivia Question 1?  Who was the FIRST to sign this document?

    Trivia Question 2?  What was the BBS's name represented by the person who
    signed the napkin?

    Message: 61652
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Media
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 21:53:04

      If the news media in Arizona were the least bit honest, they would expose
    the fact that Rose Mofford is an empty shell. They go to just as much
    trouble to cover up her lack of intelligence and unfitness for office as
    they did to uncover anything they could about Mecham. It has been explained
    to me that the R&G feels that they put her there and it's their duty to keep
    her there as long as possible. It also helps that they get exclusive
    coverage of some events from the Governor's office in return for this help.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 61653
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 21:58:05

      Didn't you see the message James left on Tuesday? We all thought you would
    be there for sure since you like lunchtime GTs and live in the northwest
    part of town. Sorry you didn't make it, it was great! I was presented with
    my story contest prize with all due honors, and Sandy became officially a
    Libertarian.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 61654
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: USMA & J.H.
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 22:02:50

            I went out for just practice today in the AHQC shoot...and got the
    best score ever!  830 points!

            I can say there is at least one person on this BBS that is not a
    wimp.  James Hawley came out and attended Basic Hand Gun and Law.  Congrats
    to you James Hawley....  Well done and I was pleased to see you contribute
    to the class.

            Pssst, Can you repeat what was said about "JURY DUTY"......

                            Just kidding... you don't have to.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    P.S.  I had this post on the RGB SIG by mistake...  tisk tisk...

    Message: 61655
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: R&G Dean / Paul
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 22:17:58

            Paul has been sold such a bill of goods on Mecham and Mofford that
    he can't back up.   Of course the R&G LIES!!!!    But I will not argue, as I
    know the 'burning hate' Paul has shown towards Mecham.  Funny, I was
    thinking of inviting him to that last GT you were at Paul. I can't help but
    wonder, if him being a Mormon has anything to do with your blind anger....
      Hmmmmmmmm    No matter...he is out now... And I am NOT a Republican
    anyway.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    P.S.  I did not like Jimmy Carters politics, But I don't call him names as I
    am a good Christian... Not my place to judge!   ((WINK))

    Hmmmm  Maybe I better make that a double ((WINK, WINK)) (-:}

    Message: 61656
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Movie GT
    Date: 10/21/89  Time: 23:34:07

    Movie GT at Christown.  Saturday, today, at midnight.  I will pay for all
    $tatus members who are at the Mann Theaters by midnight.

    Message: 61657
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Question?
    Subject: last
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 01:08:05

    What happened, James?
    Did $tatus members who rarely log in come out from the graves and
    take you up on your offer?
    The movie will be over here in about 10 minutes so I'm sure
    Cliffy will be posting the news.
    Of course, since you posted that at 23:34 I doubt there's anyone
    who would say you were genuinely being generous!
    heh heh

    Message: 61658
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul Savage
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 01:24:37

    Please outline the area you refer to in your "Biblical Justice"
    post.
    I'm having a hard time finding where it says God automatically
    destroys people when they screw up. Hmmm. Someone must have ripped
    those pages out of your bible titled "New Testament"
    While everyone's on the bandwagon to misquoting me in an attempt to justify
    their vengeful hatred toward convicted felons. No Paul, YOU DID misquote
    me. Wether or not it was intentional, you misquoted me. If you give
    yourself the same tongue lashing you give all reporters and news media
    for not stating the facts, I'll consider you an honest man.
    Just what is this "Biblical justice" that wouldn't have allowed the
    refered to felon not living long enough to "even think about conjugal
    visits" ???
    Or is it Pauls New testament here?
    I'm suprised how quickly those who profess and claim to have Jesus in
    their hearts are so quick to condemn and desire punishment for wrongdoers.
    Maybe Rod Williams has a point. I'm beginning to see his point of view
    on that subject...hate..vengeance...twisting Gods word and Jesus's gift
    into a vehicle of their own revenge to suit their mood and anger.
    Let me ask you this; If this man asked Jesus in prayer to forgive him
    do you think Jesus should or would? When you answer that, then ask
    why and what form of respect I might be referring to. Until then,
    don't misquote. It makes you look ignorant, not me.

    Message: 61660
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 02:08:40

    No one took me up on the offer.

    Message: 61661
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 06:06:20

     Of course I noticed that the anticipated death toll is going down. Praise
    God! You certainly don't blame the media for inflating the death toll, do
    you? Especially when all they were doing was quoting what the officials told
    them? One of the reasons for the decrease was, apparently, the world series.
    It is estimated that many people went home early, either to attend the game
    or to watch it on TV, and thus the usual bumper to bumper traffic on 880
    wasn't there.
     On the still brighter side, did you see the rescue yesterday? They actually
    found a survivor in the  midst of the wreckage, in about 3 feet of space.
    Now that was a miracle, and a well documented and reported one at that,
    thanks to an alert media who was on the spot to cover it.

    Message: 61662
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ANN!
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 06:11:32

     "When the real horror hadn't come in yet, they reported it anyway."
     Comeonn Annie! Name one incident of false reporting! Give me one figure
    that the media, not the officials, inflated to make things look any worse
    than they were. THe death toll on 880? Those were official figures, based on
    the normal amount of traffic on that stretch of freeway at that hour. As
    soon as it was realized that the traffic was much lighter than usual that
    day, it was reported IMMEDIATELY.
     You cannot suport your statement with even ONE fact!

    Message: 61663
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann, Ann, Ann!
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 06:17:21

     In other words, what you are objecting to is honest, realistic journalism.
     You find the blood & guts offensive. Well, Annie dear, it IS offensive! It
    is a real life, true horror story! It exists! It is really, truly there!
     Is this the same Ann Oudin who thrives on the staged blood and guts of
    horror movies as phony as a three dollar bill, but can't stand the real
    thing when it comes along?
     What were they supposed to do? Take soap and water and clean the blood from
    the victims after they dragged them from the ruins and before they took the
    picture? Get real Annie! They are reporters, reporting the news as it
    happens. As it happened, it wasn't very pretty.

    Message: 61664
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 06:30:44

     In the first place, my friend, I have not been the one lashing out at the
    media for not stating facts. In fact, I seem to be standing alone in support
    of the job they have been doing in the S.F. bay area disaster.
     Secondly, the felon referred to in prior posts was, I believe, a
    rapist-murderer. If you can't find God's judgement on such crimes plainly
    spelled out in the Bible, both Old and New Covenants, you must have removed
    a lot of print from your Bible. Time on system would not permit me to sit
    here and research all the references, but surely you jest when you propose
    that those who commit such henious crimes deserve anything but death.
     As to your question, whether Jesus would forgive, of course He would *IF*
    the man asked with a sincere and contrite heart, and ONLY God would know
    that. Even if forgiven, the physical penalty for the crime would still
    require fulfillment. Yes, God is a forgiving and loving God. He is also a
    just and righteous God, who long before the crime was committed prescribed
    the punishment for it.
     If you are told that if you get your fingers in the fire, you'll get burned
    fingers, and you do it anyway and get burned, who do you blame? The one who
    warned you? Sure, mommy and daddy will forgive you, but yor fingers will
    still take time to heal. Justice is a lot like that.

    Message: 61665
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean on the GT
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 07:14:26

    Sorry I missed it. Sounds like a nice one. Didn't Cliff & Sandy do a good
    job on those certificates? Even though mine said "Horrible Mention" because
    I came in last and the stamp of approval said "YUK"   - I thought it was all
    a lot of fun and am looking forward to trying my hand again at coming in
    last! Ha. Congratulations! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61666
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 07:28:15

    Gads Paul. Don't you think I watched TV that day? Or heard what was said? I
    told you that Ted Koppel was stretching all the horror with adding his own
    that turned out to be un-true! In the middle of the day I heard him say with
    my own ears that "200 were killed under that bridge" There were no 'maybe's
    - no official figures - no speculation - he just flat said it like he knew!
    Later I turned to CNN and heard one of their women reporters say 'at least
    400 are dead when a portion of the bridge colllasped"! I'll give her credit
    for saying 'at least' -- but she certainly stretched those figures a bit
    didn't she? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61667
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul, Paul Paul!!!
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 07:41:53

    You bet I like blood and gore - the more the better - in the movies, but I
    don't want to see it in detail in real life in my living room! Lets just
    say, a little bit goes along way and a lot is unecessary. Yes, they can
    photograph a victum being pulled from a crushed building, but do they need
    to get right up close? Do they need to get in the way of firemen and the
    police like a bunch of vultures? I'm surprised they don't have the
    priviledge of going into those places first so they can get photos that are
    truly horrible.
    We have talked to a lot of people since the quake and it's un-believable the
    different stories we hear from them! Of course, each and everyone of them
    got their information from the media(s)! Unfortunately, they will believe
    all of it the rest of their lives and the story in telling will be
    embellished with undue horror that didn't happen!
    I'm all for the news - like to find out what's happening in the U.S.
    and around the world, but I read between the lines for the truth as best as
    I can.

    Message: 61668
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/last
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 07:46:32

    So, your saying "that of course Jesus would forgive the murderer, but
    society should not and he should be punished according to the Bible"?
                                -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61669
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Survivor
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 08:20:18

            Yes, it was nice there was a survivor, but the MEDIA did not rescue
    him either.  He may have even been rescued quicker had it not been for the
    MEDIA getting in the way.  Seems their big sky trucks take up a lot of
    valuable space and were slowing down emergency vehicles.  I could have lived
    without the news of the rescue for a day or two.

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61670
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul on Ann's facts?
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 08:23:34

            Well Paul, if the Media had waited to get the FACTs, they would not
    have reported the high number of deaths first.  Tell me what government
    officials told the Media the number of deaths?  I want your facts on this.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61671
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 1976 Flood and Paul
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 08:58:59

            In 1976 (I think) when Phoenix had the swollen river and it was
    being called the 100 year flood, the news media had it reported that PHOENIX
    was under water.  My relatives in Ney York really thought we were in trouble
    because of the Media hype.  They were very upset when they could not get
    though with Ma Bell..and very worried.  Why, because it was greatly
    exaggerated.

            It is obvious to all that the media likes large numbers when it
    comes to death.

            The Media, in a way, will lie by not telling the full truth to
    make a point they believe in sound like an un-arguable FACT.

            The news Media is needed...  I am not against free speech, but they
    being the NEWs Media...should just REPORT the news using FACTS.  They need
    not do more then just that.   A fact might be a body count AFTER they are
    counted.

            Paul, Question?  Did you ever read the story about the boy who cried
    "WOLF"?  Did you understand the moral to that simple story?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61672
    Author: Jeff Porcaro
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: BBS trivia
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 14:33:59

    #1: John Hancock
    #2: Cliff Kostolow.

    Message: 61673
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last?
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 15:07:26

            Wrong on both!
                            Geesh!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61674
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 15:51:02

    Re:  "You can disagree, but the bible says otherwise...."

    I will always agree with the Bible, but not necessarily your interpretation
    of it.  So, where does the Bible say otherwise?

    Message: 61675
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 15:55:41

    Re:  "I always thought they should work and pay for their keep and the
    prison. Why should the tax payers be stuck with that?"

    Amen to you Ann!  I agree on all counts.

    Message: 61676
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 16:00:24

    Re:  "We SYSOPs will attempt to run our BBS's in good taste and use general
    rules of COURTESY towards all users, providing they in turn are COURTEOUS
    towards us and others."

    I am curious as to why a sysop would not sign the above.  Was he planning on
    running his BBS in _bad_ taste and using general rules of rudeness?  Ha!

    Message: 61677
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 16:03:06

    Re:  "What lucnch GT? Why wasn't I informed - why wasn't I invited?"

    I missed it too Ann.  Maybe they only invited the lower class section of
    Apollo?

    I bet I'm in for it now!

    Message: 61678
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 16:04:23

    Re:  "the 'burning hate' Paul has shown towards Mecham"

    It's not just Mecham.  Paul doesn't like any Republican!

    Message: 61679
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 16:05:58

    Re:  "Movie GT at Christown."

    Good grief!  I missed another!

    Message: 61680
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff/Sysops charter
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 17:35:25

    I know the answers, but it's so simple that I will let someone else answer
    it.  I've only seen it about 2 dozen times at the store and in your garage.

    Message: 61681
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: PAUL/FALSE REPORTING
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 19:43:03

    On the SF earthquake:

         "NBC's biggest lapse was a lack of knowledge of the Bay area, at one
    time placing the tragedy at I-880 in two places, one in Oakland and one in
    San Francisco, Brokaw added casaulty estimates and single-handedly doubled
    the number of dead.  He later had to correct his error.
         Anyone flipping through channels would have had a better handle on the
    situation than Brokaw..."
                                 - Thurs Oct 19th AZ Rep.

    Message: 61682
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: TRIVIA
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 19:45:49

    1 -  Ed Sharpe

    2 - James Taranto (of Genesys)

    Message: 61683
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: News media
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 20:25:03

    In the Soviet Union, before glasnost, the news media did not cover natural
    disasters that occurred domestically, because it was feared that they would
    reflect badly on communism.  Perhaps Sandy, Cliff and Ann would be happier
    there.

    Message: 61684
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: War!
    Subject: Thornburg
    Date: 10/22/89  Time: 20:25:10

    Shut up already!

    Message: 61685
    Author: Acne Achiever
    Category: War!
    Subject: What is a teenager?
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 01:59:24

         [An essay on today's teenagers]

         Today's teenager is rude, obnoxious, irresponsible, and disrespectful.
    All of our thoughts are evil and perverse.  If we can't eat it, drink it,
    drive it, smoke it, or have sex with it, we trash it.  Our motive for living
    is putting other people - especially senior citizens and little kids -
    through living hell.  We do these things mainly because we are told not to.
    We are plotting to destroy modern civilization around the world.  Within a
    few years we hope to have our tyrannical government ruling the planet.  The
    following paragraphs are just the beginning of our extensive plans.
         Our plan begins with our attitude.  We have a lack of respect; we are
    rude and obnoxious.  It is just a myth that we are this way because of the
    drastic changes that we go through as young adults.  It is an even bigger
    myth that we are the way we are because "society did it to us."  The truth
    is that we are trying to get the older members of society so angry at us
    that they will get heart disease and die a miserable death.
         Our music is another way of hurting the adult population.  We do this
    by playing our music as loud as we can so we can destroy their hearing.  We
    are not at all worried about our hearing because we are young and nothing
    can happen to us.  Usually this plan is used when we are driving because we
    figure if we don't run everyone over, we can at least distract them by
    driving madly or playing our music loud enough to keep them away.  Our music
    is very important to us because it is what we almost always talk about:  our
    music and the people associated with it.

    We talk about vital things like Bon Jovi having AIDS, and life-shattering
    information about what Madonna is (or better yet, isn't) wearing.  And when
    we take the planet over, we plan on making the song, "I'm so horny" our
    national anthem.
         Our first and largest problem in gaining control of the world is
    getting rid of the adults.  Fortunately our previously listed plans have
    been in effect for many years and have eliminated many enemy adults.
    However, there is a conspiracy to stop our plans.  Adults are oppressive to
    us by attempting to control our music and every aspect of our lives.  We do
    have some tricks up our sleeves that will enable us to win.  We have the
    power of Satan on our side, and He has made secret deals with hundreds of
    people across the globe.  Some adults have been hired as spies for us.
    People like Zsa Zsa are here to make the adults look like idiots.  Ronald
    Reagan, Morton Downey Jr., and Mike Carter have been some of our best assets
    and more are being recruited now.  Financing our conspiracy has been all too
    easy until the past two years.  Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker have been stealing
    millions from us.  Now home shopping and phone sex finance us.
         We warn you not to tell anyone about these plans.  To make sure you
    keep this a secret, we have put our best recruit on your trail.  So if you
    see a chubby man with sideburns, blue suede shoes, and he's constantly
    humming "Jailhouse Rock," you'll know who it is.  If you are caught, you
    will spend eternity in hell watching "A Brady Bunch Musical:  Christmas on
    the Planet of the Apes!"  Beware!
                                                      -- Teenagers everywhere

    Message: 61687
    Author: Acne Achiever
    Category: War!
    Subject: last two
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 02:12:43

    The preceding essay is by Garin Groff, teenager.  (With the exception of the
    part about Mike Carter.)

    Message: 61688
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: News Today
    Subject: ANN!
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 05:33:52

     Where in the world do you suppose the media gets the numbers they report?
    They get them from the people who are supposed to know such things. In this
    case, the figures no dobt came from the CHP or higway dept., who used the
    normal amont of traffic at that point at that hour to arrive at that figure.
    Indeed, had it not been for unusual circumstances, there would have been
    something close to those figures. It was not until the rescue efforts were
    well underway that it was discovered that there were a lot fewer cars on the
    freeway than was originally thought, and that discovery was duly reported as
    soon as it was known. What more do you expect? Nobody inflated figures. They
    didn't have to. The ones they were given were sensational enough, even for
    tabloids!
     By the way, I watched CNN for several hours on the day and the day after
    the quake, and never heard the 400 figure you mentioned as being an estimate
    of the toll on the freeway. (Don't watch Koppel.)

    Message: 61689
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann, Ann, Ann!!
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 05:41:37

     Of course people will embellish stories they hear with their own little
    quirks and additions! How can you blame the media for that?
     Didn't you ever play the little parlor game in which someone whispers a
    statement into the ear of the one next to them, and it is passed around the
    room, from person to person, and then the last person repeats it aloud? The
    end result is usually far removed from the original statement. The fault
    lies, not with the original story teller, but with those along the line
    interpreting the statement and retelling it. That's life.
     As to the gore, if it's there and it's real (and it was), how can you blame
    the media for doing their job and reporting it? Close ups can be gotten
    without ever getting in anyone's way. Ever hear of telescopic lenses? If
    anybody got in the way of the rescue efforts, it was probably the poor,
    stunned residents of the area, wandering around wondering what had happened
    to their neighborhood.

    Message: 61690
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/facts
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 05:50:28

     And if the media had waited to get the "facts" we still wouldn't have a
    report on what happened! The people who furnish facts and figures
    (estimates, too) are those who should have the best possible information on
    the subject at hand. As I said in my message to Ann, in this case, the media
    probably got their original figures from the Highway Patrol or Cal. Traffic
    Dept., and was based on the normal amount of traffic that would have been on
    that particular freeway at 5 PM on a Tuesday. I'm sure that the media didn't
    just look at the collapsed freeway and say, "Hmm. Must be at least 200
    people under there." These are responsible professionals, doing a job the
    best way they could with the knowledge they had at the time. As soon as it
    was realized that traffic was much lighter than expected, and the toll would
    be much less, it was duly reported. That's good reporting, and I wouldn't be
    surprised if, somewhere down the line, when awards are passed out for news
    coverage, many will go to those who were there, doing what they were
    supposed to do.

    Message: 61691
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob!
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 05:54:38

     "Paul doesn't like any Republican."
     Now that's simply not true Bob! I like you, and you're one, aren't you?
     I can probably think of at least one or two more. I thought of Cliff too,
    but I think he has changed to a Libertarian. Oh well, I still like him.

    Message: 61692
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/the flood
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 07:52:01

    I too heard that parts of Phoenix was under water at that time. We lived in
    Prescott and my family lived here - of course, we were concerned. We
    attemped to drive down, but was stopped at New River. It REALLY was under
    water and the mobile homes were floating down the newly formed river! So was
    the road. That night on TV, a reporter finally said that Phoenix only had a
    minium amount of flooding. I could have throttled that first reporter that
    elaborated - embellished on the true facts. But if anything, they've gotten
    worse! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61693
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 07:55:38

    You must be slipping down hill - your back to telling people if they don't
    like it here, to go to Russia. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61694
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/reporting
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 07:59:55

    I see your mind is closed and you will continue to defend the media
    regardless of what is said.
    Re: you watching CNN all day - you must have went to the bathroom at the
    wrong time and missed the statistics. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61695
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul, Paul, Paul
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 08:05:04

    The media was also going around just after the quake sticking their
    microphones in people's faces that were in shock and stunned - asking them
    how they felt - or people that had just lost their homes and worldly
    possessions. This started about 15 minutes after the quake too. Tasteless!
                                 -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61696
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Paul / News Politics
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 08:55:04

            Paul, a lot of your argument is very valid.  I am not ANTI Media,
    but they do over do-it!  They could have reported the collaps of 880 and
    said, looks like there are a number of casualties, and we will get you this
    info when we get the facts.  (I would watch a station with this attitude)
    Even the Mayor said the Media was a help getting the word out, but was a
    problem getting in the way with all the media trucks.  Paul, even you can
    understand in an earth quake zone the streets might be narrow since debris
    is scattered about....  The telescoping lenses you talk about don't reach
    that far.  They should flip a coin and see who (CBS/NBC/ABC etc) will get
    to go in...with maybe a local station or two.  The problem is EVERY ONE
    merged on poor little 880... as the Mayor said... THOUSANDS who got in the
    way of rescue vehicles.
            Then they Hype the news for Hours, Days, saying the same thing over
    and over on every single station...with News Special Reports.  It just gets
    old very fast.... and you can't even believe them, because in the end, the
    facts will be different then those reported the first few hours.

            I call for 'Responsible Journalism' and not 'Sensationalism'!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61697
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob Thornburg
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 17:25:03

    "Love thine enemy.."

    Message: 61698
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: War!
    Subject: Felons & Justice
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 17:35:23

    I support:
    Punishment for crimes committed. I support death penalties for
    violent murderers, I support severe restrictions on prisoners.

    I donot support judging them personally without knowing all the facts.
    FACTS..not stories or rumors or "reports".
    I donot support the idea that as criminals, they donot deserve fair
    treatment while being processed and punished.{
    To ignore their pleas or requests for hearings is to throw out any
    shred of civility. We can all easily say that we're tired of the
    plea bargaining and the easy-off's some are getting. But put yourself
    in the position. Let's just say for arguments sake you are convicted
    and sentenced for a crime you DID NOT commit. FACTS. ARe we to deny
    you (in reality an innocent) the due process? Bob thornburg says no
    by disagreeing that we need to respect an individual regardless of
    crime, as a human being. Paul savage backs this up too.
    But they're more content to misquote and put words in my mouth I have
    not spoken.
    Freedom has it's PRICE, one part of that price is treating everyone
    with respect. (This includes absence of torture, rights retained and
    civility by the keepers to their captors.) If you donot support this
    and claim the BIBLE doesn't support it either, then you need to take
    a very serious look at your doctrine.
            -Mike

    Message: 61700
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/JT
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 21:41:19

    Christ, at least he can spell.

    HB

    Message: 61701
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Acne Achiever
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 21:41:49

    I think you are incredibly appropriately named.

    Congratulations on your achievement.

    HB

    Message: 61702
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/JT
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 23:01:57

    He's not slipping down hill.  He's just showing his true colors.  You have
    to understand; when he speaks of the maturity and wisdom he has gained in
    the years since his residence here, he is refering to the process of
    assimilation into society proper, not any internal change in values or
    perspective.

    Message: 61703
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul on reporting
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 23:05:12

    "Hmmm, there probably were at least 200 people under there.  How does that
    figure sound to you?"

    "Sounds good to me.  It's bound to make an impact on the viewers.  Let's go
    with it."

    Message: 61704
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul, again
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 23:19:26

    There is a vast difference between objective reporting of an event and
    sensationalism, or pandering.  We all know that there is gore associated
    with an earthquake, Paul.  What is the point in scrutinising the physical
    and emotional injuries of the victims if not to provide vicarious, morbid
    entertainment to the TV viewers?  The media has plenty to do: report on the
    causes, exigencies, and implications of the quake.  Report on what was done,
    and what could have been done better, to lessen the impact of the quake.
    Report how totally dependent we have become on our technology, and how
    better civic planning might reduce the aftermath of a quake by providing
    alternate means for sufficiency.  Let us not deceive ourselves; scenes of
    misery and devastation are intended mainly as gruesome entertainment, or if
    not that, then certainly as a method of capturing viewers by presenting them
    with images which compel their morbid attention.

    Message: 61705
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul, yet again
    Date: 10/23/89  Time: 23:21:48

    The media may get its figures from experts, but given a choice of figures
    from a range of experts, they often choose the most sensational.

    It is the job of the media to research, to fact-check, and to report
    accurate information; not simply to report anything that someone tells them.

    Message: 61706
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: HB
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 06:54:08

    Yes, I know JT can spell. So? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61707
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/closed mind
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 06:59:06

     Whose mind is closed depends on which side of the argument you stand, I
    guess. And I never go to the bathroom, except during commercials. Isn't that
    what they are there for?

    Message: 61708
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann,Ann,Ann
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 07:01:29

     Re: sticking the mike in people's faces. You may call getting first hand
    reactions tastelesI call it good reporting. Again, it all depends onthe
    attitude of the viewer.

    Message: 61709
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 07:14:07

     The line between "responsible journalism" and "sensationalism" is probably
    very thin, again depending on the attitude with which the article is viewed.
    I agree that less in this case could well have been better, at least in the
    amount of equipment at the scene. The same could hold true ffor many events,
    but then I'm sure someone would complain about first amendment rights, etc.
     Incidentally, you asked me in a post yesterday to cite some of the
    "sources" for the media's "facts". After I logged off, I picked up the
    morning Repulsive, and read an article on (guess whaat!) the earthquake.
     Following is a collection of sources for just that one article.They are
    taken completely out of context, and don't make any sense, other than to
    demonstrate that the media doesn't fabricate the news."Authorities sent
    crews home for the nigh"Cal. Dept. of Transportation said". "hospital
    officials said"."Engineer Steven Whipple, hailed as a hero of the rescue,
    said"."Cal. Highway Patrol Capt. Mike Garver said"."Archbishop John R. Quinn
    told". "The Army Corps of Engineers on Sunday reported". "Workers (did thus
    and so) according to Nelson". "Said Jim Drago, another CalTrans spokesman".
    "Pamela Cote of the Santa Cruz County human resources agency said".
     Just a few of the many sources that were feeding information to the media.

    Message: 61710
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff Beck
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 07:20:03

     I agree totally that thte media has a termendous job ahead of it, in
    investigating and reporting on the causes of tragedies such as the quake,
    and the prevention of damage in future such events, etc. I am sure that
    these jobs will all be done, in due time. The moment of the event, however
    is not the time for retrospect, or for planning. It is the time for
    reporting, which is what they did.
     Sure, it made for some pretty distasteful viewing, especially at
    suppertime, but it was, after all, factual, and as such, news. Now that it
    is for the most part over, will be the time for all the other necessities,
    anad I have no doubt that they will all be dealt with.

    Message: 61711
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/commercials
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 08:29:12

    Yes and they're also good for going to the refridgerator and playing with
    the dog. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61712
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 14:42:21

    Re:  "Shut up already!"

    What did I say now??  Good grief!

    Message: 61713
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 14:45:42

    Re:  "I like you"

    Hey!  Alright Paul!  You made my day!

    Message: 61714
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 14:48:18

    Re:  "your back to telling people if they don't like it here, to go to
    Russia"

    Hey!  I like it!  Maybe James should coin a new phrase.  He is so witty.

    Message: 61715
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 14:50:29

    Re:  "Love thine enemy.."

    But I do love him!  I love him so much that I'm going to put him out of his
    misery!

    Message: 61716
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 14:52:58

    Re:  "Yes, I know JT can spell."

    He only seems to spell because he uses an interactive spelling checker.
    Without it you would not be able to read what he writes.  It looks like a
    foreign language!

    Message: 61717
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Paul
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 14:53:58

    Whats with all this Ann! Ann! Ann! Paul! Paul! Paul! stuff??

    Message: 61718
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: news
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 20:25:07

    News is not merely factual information.  If it were, almost any magazine or
    non-fiction TV program would qualify as news.  News is factual, important,
    and informative.  One cannot simply point a camera at shocked or hysterical
    or injured people and call it news, despite how genuine it might all be.
    Would you call coverage of a boxing match news, or entertainment?

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