### Apollo BBS Archive - October 6 - 10, 1989

    Message: 61453
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: statues
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 04:09:08

    Statues and monuments are there to serve as inspirational works. As such,
    they may bring about the desire to pray, or in the case of the Washington
    monument, for example, feelings of patriotism.

    I see nothing wrong with stautues serving as symbols of faith or liberty.
    Perhaps some Catholics believe that Mary inhabits all of her statues, but I
    have yet to meet one.

    Message: 61454
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Handles
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 05:23:27

    Of COURSE this is my real name.  I'm incredibly offended that you should
    think otherwise, Clifford.  Heather's just a handle.

    HB

    Message: 61455
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Afterthought -- last
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 05:24:09

    Isn't it awful what parents will do to children these days?

    HB

    Message: 61456
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Church
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 07:16:07

    My church is the best.
    The sky is the roof, and the walls is the walls.
    There is no building fund, and it was made by God.
                        Ralph

    Message: 61457
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT/football
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 08:20:09

    No Kidding?  I thought it was the other way around - multilation!

    Message: 61458
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/your posts
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 08:42:22

    I want to thank you for the time you took to respond. I might not agree with
    you all the time, but I do always, like your posts.

    In response: .... I repeat, I never prayed to a statue in my life - only the
    person it represented. I did not amass all my gold trinkets and mold them
    into an idol to worship. I never bowed down to anyone other than God. Yes, I
    have asked Mary to 'say a few words for me' - but in essense, it was God I
    was asking of. At the time, I thought He would understand the importance of
    my request if I asked Mary, the saints or whoever to plead for me. It's
    silly to me now, but I was very sincere at the time. I never thought Mary or
    anyone else was divine.

    Re: mother of God .... stop me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jesus God and man
    while on earth? I didn't think he left His divinity behind when He was born.
    So how can Mary NOT be the mother of God then? Do you not believe in the
    Trinity? I know of some Christians (faiths) that do not believe in it.

    Re: what the Bible says .... Mary as a mediator .... The Bible does not say
    very much clearly. Since this is the case, you can come up with just about
    anything - interpret it the way you want. Personally, I believe the truth is
    in there -- somewhere! I think man has tampered with it too much over the
    centuries for it to be in it's intirity the Word of God! So I can understand
    where the Catholics came up with the idea that May is/could be a mediator.

    Re: 1 Timothy 2:5 .... does this mean we can't go straight to God - but
    always through Jesus?

    Thanks again for you posts. -=*) ANN (*=-

    P.S. Hey - this BB is beginning to sound like the Christian sig. isn't it?
    I feel for once that all of us are discussing religion - our sides of it in
    a well behaved manner for a change - exchanging thoughts, ideas, beliefs.
    Nice!

    Message: 61460
    Author: Scott Windsor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: CP/M World!
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 09:35:14

       #####    #####   ##    ##     #       #   #####  #####  #     #####
      #     #   #    #  # #  # #     #   #   #  #     # #    # #     #    #
      #         #####   #  ##  #     #  # #  #  #     # #####  #     #    #
      #     #   #       #      #     # #   # #  #     # #  #   #     #    #
       #####    #       #      #      #     #    #####  #   #  ##### #####

                        /------------------------------+
                       /                            /  l
                      /     Call (602)938-6866                            /   l
                     /                            /    l
                    +----------------------------+     l
                    l +----------+  o  o         l     l
                    l l UNZIP forl           ||  l    /
                    l l CP/M now l           ||  l   /
                    l l availablel           ||  l  /
                    l +----------+           ||  l /
                    +----------------------------+/|
                    +----------------------------+ |
                   / * * * * * * * * * * * * *  /l     CP/M WORLD!
                  / * * * * * * * * * * * * *  / /       SysOp:
                 /  * * * * * * * * * * * * * / /     Scott Windsor
                /        ==============      / /
               +----------------------------+ /     Operating remotely

    Message: 61461
    Author: Scott Windsor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: CP/M World!
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 09:46:04

    Check us out!

    I have started a CP/M based door on Trinity (602)938-6866.  Once you get in
    on Trinity, OPen DOor #1, (syntax = OP;1 -or- DO;1 ), and you're in!  If you
    haven't been validated there yet, you must fill out SCRIPT #1 in Trinity,
    from the main prompt syntax = SCRIPT;1 .  If you know anyone running a C-128
    or other CP/M capable system, have them give us a call!  We're growing
    everyday with new users and new files!

    Check out both boards!  If you haven't called Trinity before, I urge you to
    do so, it is a unique Christian board that doesn't get into "soap boxing" as
    a few other "Christian" BBS's do.  Trinity is neat, but I am especially
    excited about the response we are getting in the CP/M World! door!

                            (602)938-6866 - For Trinity
                              "   "    "  - and DO;1 for CP/M World!

    Have fun!

    Scott

    Message: 61462
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 10:07:16

     THe only way to justify anything scriptural is by the Scriptures
    themselves. If there is any justification for Mary being the "Mother of
    God", please quote chapter and verse.

    Message: 61463
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/sports?
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 10:15:20

    Wrestling (professional) and roller derby are two demonstrations, or shows,
    designed to cater to the baser animal instincts that reside in the human
    breast. They are not sports at all.
     The primary object of football (which, incidentally, draws many times more
    crowds than baseball) is to propel the ball toward the opponent's goal in
    order to score points. It is, granted, a heavily body contact sport, since
    the primary goal of the opposing team is to prevent the scoring of points,
    but the injuries are incidental to the sport, not a necessary or inherent
    part of it.
     Speaking of roller derby, have you seen the latest version of it? Georgia
    Hase, Frankie Valaderez and a few of the oldies are back, along with a lot
    of new, younger people, and they call it roller games. It has a somewhat new
    format, with a 60 degree "wall of death" (nobody dies), a high speed jump
    and even an alligator pit! The rest of it is the same, with people getting
    knocked over the rails, fighting (especially the girls), etc. An hour of
    almost predictable thrills.

    Message: 61464
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann/first church
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 10:21:56

     The followes of Christ were first called Christians I believe, Corinth,
    and the first church, per se, was formed when those original believers began
    meeting together, either during Jesus' lifetime or shortly after his
    resurrection.
     To properly identify "church", we must understand that we are talking about
    the body of Christ, or of believers, gathered together in His name for a
    common purpose. We are NOT discussing buildings or man-made organizations,
    be they Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Episcolopian or whatever. The church is
    people, not places or names. Since there was a body of Christ in existence
    for several hundred years before the Roman Catholic organization came along,
    they have no claim to being the first church. I hope that is sufficient
    explanation?

    Message: 61465
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 11:31:03

            There are LESS agnostics and atheists on this planet than ever
    before...  Get your facts correct dork!

            And it is not God's job to get involved in wars that MAN has
    created.    Rod...you have a terrible distorted view of what a true
    Christian is about.  Why don't you drop this subject since you have no
    knowledge of what you are trying to talk about.  You slam the Christians for
    trying to push their religion...  But the one who always starts these things
    on here seems to be YOU!  So whom is doing the pushing?

            Viet Namn is spelled 'Vietnam"

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61466
    Author: Hector Chavez  ***This was me.
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hello!
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 19:54:52

    Just thought I'd say Hi, all.

    Message: 61467
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: statues & monuments
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 21:50:13

    There is no doubt that symbols can inspire people to various acts and
    changes of mood.
    There is nothing wrong with statues serving as symbols of faith and liberty.
    Your response was largely irrelevant, since it did not address my points.

    As for Catholics believing that Mary inhabits all her statues, this was your
    inference, and I neither expressed nor implied this.

    I chose my words with some care; I suggest that you read my message again,
    this time paying strict attention to its literal meaning.

    Message: 61468
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:21:16

    Re:  "Baker is found GUILTY on all counts..."

    Gee, don't you feel even a little sorry for him?  You could rape, rob, and
    murder and get away with less than 10 years.  Steal a couple of million
    (politicians are always exempt) and go to jail for 100 years.  Some justice
    huh?

    Message: 61469
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Machael
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:25:51

    Re:  "And I have always been confused as to exactly how one can reconcile
    belief
    in a deistic trinity with a claim to monotheism?  Isn't that actually
    incompatible?"

    As soon as I figure it out I will tell you.  I don't know anyone who claims
    to understand it fully.

    Message: 61470
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:33:52

    Gee Rod, I don't have answers to all your hypothetical questions.  But I do
    believe that no one goes to hell on a technicality.  I can't answer for all
    the aborigines who never hear the gospel, but I can answer for myself.  And
    you can answer for yourself.  God knows those who love him.  And if someone
    hates God, why should God let him into heaven?  Jesus went through an
    awful lot to pay the price for sin.  Those who continue to curse him and
    despise after they know the truth, what do they expect?  I find that God is
    incredibly patience with man.  If I was God, I would have zapped mankind a
    long time ago.  Aren't you glad that I'm not God?

    Message: 61471
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:40:03

    Re:  "So how can Mary NOT be the mother of God then?"

    To say that Mary is the mother of God implies a lot that isn't true.  I
    think it is more correct to say that Mary is the mother of Jesus.  Jesus is
    both man and God.  Mary is the mother of the human side of Jesus.  Mary is
    not the mother of the Devine side of Jesus.  Since God always existed, how
    could Mary be his mother.  Especially since Mary did not always exist.  Can
    you see my point?

    Message: 61472
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:41:53

    Re:  "does this mean we can't go straight to God - but
    always through Jesus?"

    Well, that is what Jesus said.  "No man can come to the Father except
    through me."  (my paraphrase)  I can look up the verse if you like.

    Message: 61473
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Scott
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:43:06

    Do you have an "antique" license plate on your CP/M computer?

    Message: 61474
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:45:31

    You seem to know an awful lot about "roller derbies"!  Does it appeal to
    your baser animal instincts?  Ha!

    Message: 61475
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hector Chavez
    Date: 10/06/89  Time: 22:47:24

    Well hi to you too Hector!  I hope you had a nice day.

    Message: 61476
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: SPAZ ON APOLLO SYSOP
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 01:10:07

    Don't call him Clifford.  He hates being called Clifford.
    Cliffy, however, may be acceptable depending on the circumstances.

    Message: 61477
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: DREAM ANALYSIS
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 01:18:13

    The following is a dream I had:

         I'm in a health food store, perusing the assorted banana chips and
    such, when John Ratzenberger (the guy who plays "Cliffy the Mailman" on
    CHEERS) walks in.  He is wearing a futuristic space suit similar to the one
    worn by Michael Jackson in the 'Captain Eo' 3-D film at Disneyland.  I say,
    "Hey, Cliffy, what's with the outfit?"  He explains he is singing
    backup for Iggy Pop at the Italian nightclub down the street.  We both break
    into a chorus of "Cry for Love" in Italian, and walk out of the health food
    store.
         Any guesses as to what this dream means?
         As a side note -  I don't speak (or sing) Italian.

    Message: 61478
    Author: Boris Blank
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 03:14:14

    Of course I'm lying.

    Message: 61479
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mr. Beck
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 04:43:48

    I suggest you reread your own message. No inference on my part was
    necessary; it was all quite clearly stated.

    So when does "Guitar Shop" hit the stores?

    Message: 61480
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Bob/verse
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 05:28:21

    Try John 14:6. Amen!

    Message: 61481
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/roller games
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 05:29:19

    Yep. And I enjoy pro wrestling too, but don't tell Ann!

    Message: 61482
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Peter's dream
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 05:30:53

     It probably meant that you had too much lasagna for supper. Take two Tums
    and call us in the morning.

    Message: 61483
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul/#61462
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 07:03:10

    But I didn't ask you if it was in the Bible -I asked, that if Jesus was
    indeed God and human when He was born, then Mary must indeed be the Mother
    of God? There's a lot that isn't in the Bible - I.E. the years between youth
    and manhood of Jesus. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61484
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/sports
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 07:06:42

    I guess you'd say that calling a sport a bloody one is a matter of opinion.
    I have just got into football and really enjoy it, but feel it's pretty
    rough at the best of times.
    No, I haven't seen the new Roller Derby. Sounds like fun! Ha. No, I don't
    think it or wrestling is a true sport - not the kind on TV anyway.
                            -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61485
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul/church
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 07:10:28

    Yes, that explains it - but I was mainly talking an organized religion -
    with a name. See? I'm very interested in finding out this information. As I
    mentioned, I've been told by several churches that they were the first. All
    of them can't be right. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61486
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/Bakker
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 07:17:54

    I think he should have the book thrown at him! He should be used as an
    example to all would be TV preaches and what could happen if caught!
    Maybe we can't do anything about our Politicians pulling the same kind of
    stunts, but we sure can with the likes of Bakker. He preyed on millions of
    people - a lot of old people on fixed incomes donated in good faith only to
    have this idiot (or is that smart?) live like a king. I'll bet Tammy spent a
    million dollars alone on make-up each year. (snicker) -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61487
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/Mary
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 07:21:10

    I do see your point. Maybe it would be better to define 'Mother'? I
    personally believe she is/was the Mother of God. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61488
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/God
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 07:22:23

    I meant - do we only pray to Jesus and never to God? Isn't God and Jesus one
    - the same? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61489
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Peter/your dream
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 07:24:15

    I personally think you've gone Wacco! Swiping too many yucca plants no
    doubt! (grin) -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61490
    Author: Robert Simpson
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/61488
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 13:20:36

    Jesus is our bridge between us and God.  It's through Christ that our
    prayers are lifted up to God.  They are one and the same, just different
    aspects.

    Message: 61491
    Author: Robert Simpson
    Category: Bulletins
    Subject: Finally!
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 13:22:40

    After six months of design, three months of programming, and another month
    of online-bug testing, the newest Black Castle is open to the public.

    Black Castle 6.0, 300/1200/2400 8n1, 24hrs a day, 602-843-6782
    Written and operated by (me)  Is also PC-Pursuitable

    Message: 61492
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 15:16:33

    The correct spelling is "PC-Pursuitible."

    Message: 61493
    Author: Sam Larson
    Category: Question?
    Subject: ?
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 15:56:31

    How do I turn on the ANSI color graphics??? Ugh!

    This is that ugly color 7!!

    HELP!

           Sam Larson--:

    Message: 61494
    Author: Sam Larson
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Another fine one
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 16:01:28

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    Message: 61495
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 16:05:46

    Re:  "I'll bet Tammy spent a million dollars alone on make-up each year."

    Would you believe each week?  Ha!

    Message: 61496
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 16:07:26

    Re:  "I meant - do we only pray to Jesus and never to God?"

    According to what Jesus said, we should pray to the Father in the name of
    the Son.  Yes, Jesus is God.

    Message: 61497
    Author: Hector Chavez  ***This was me.
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: Me
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 20:22:16

            Hello.  My name is Hector Chavez and I have an interesting, and
    true, tale to tell.  I was approached by several people last week while
    shopping with my mother at Los Arcos Mall in Scottsdale.

            I was asked to join a religion by these two, well dressed, males.
    They told me of many rewards I would receive if I worshipped with them in
    their group.  It sounded too good to be true, after all, eternal happiness
    is an awful lot to receive.  There is nothing any better than that.

            But, the other part, as I was told, was that if I didn't believe
    with them and develop their beliefs, that I would burn in hell for all
    eternity.

            Now I ask you intelligent people, would any of you go with a
    religion that promised, if you didn't join, that you would be miserable for
    ever?  It sounds kind of fishy to me.

            They were Christians.

    Message: 61498
    Author: Randy Right  ***This was Randy Sanders.
    Category: Religion
    Subject: One true god
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 20:47:49

     I am looking for the one true religion. Can you tell me which one it is?
    It seems that there are so many choices, and all of the religions say that
    they are the One True Religion. How can more than one Religion exist if
    there is only One True Religion?
     Why would God let so many False Pretenders confuse Those People who would
    be True Believers?
     Does God go to Church? Which one? If I don't find the True Religion will
    I burn in everlasting Hell?

    Righteous Randy.

    Message: 61499
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mr. Ianuzzi
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 22:52:09

    I suggest you reread your original reply, and then reread my message.  You
    will find none of the assertions you attribute to me.  I ought to know; I
    wrote it, and I know better than anyone what I said and intended to say.

    Guitar Shop will see limited release in December.  Coincedent with this will
    be the release of a video tape illustrating proper safety techniques
    involving use of the circular saw.

    Message: 61500
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: dream meaning
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 22:53:51

    I think it's the fourth sign of the apocalypse.

    Message: 61501
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: Marksman
    Date: 10/07/89  Time: 23:19:22

            I finished my qualifications for the IQC at 90 percent or better 3
    times in a row to earn my 'Revolver Marksman' pin today.  Next week if all
    goes well, I should earn my 'Revolver Sharp Shooter' pin when I finish the
    third AQC shoot.  (hope, hope, hope)

            Then I will be off to try the EXPERT Hand Gun class when it starts
    in November.  I hear this one is real tough!  (Sandy has long since passed
    all these classes)
            By the way, Sandy is in 'Distinguished Masters' and 'Advanced Combat
    Shotgun'....  when she is not on line teaching us morons in the lower level
    classes.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61503
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mr. Beck
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 04:13:28

    Never mind. I don't care anymore.

    Message: 61504
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 06:00:00

    Your statement is the RC oversimplification that simply displays a lack of
    knowledge of the reality of Jesus' divinity, or of the reality of the Holy
    Trinity altogether.
     Mary, in her obedience to God, became the physical entity through which
    Jesus, the second person of the Holy Trinity, became flesh and dwelt among
    us. This physical manifestation of the divine was necessary, not only to
    prove God's love for His creation, but also to fulfill O.T. prophecy
    concerning the coming Messiah so that the nation Israel would one day
    recognize His validity. Jesus was God, and was with God when the world was
    created. This is evident in many Scriptures, from Genesis, when God said
    "Let US make man in OUR image", to John chapter 17, when Jesus prayed to the
    Father for the grace He (Jesus) had when He was with the Father before the
    world began.
     It is very easily seen, by reading all of the Scripture concerning, not
    only the birth of Jesus but the person of Jesus throughout time, that Mary
    was nothing more than a very special and blessed individual who, through her
    willingness and obedience, was chosen for a special purpose, and fulfilled
    that purpose. THere is absolutely no justification for considering her the
    "mother of God" or the "queen of heaven" which is yet another RCC
    traditional error.

    Message: 61505
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann/church
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 06:07:40

     Since it is at least my observation that most scriptural error seems to
    have begun with the formation of religious organizations, it would be no
    particular honor to be recognized as the first ones to mess arond with God's
    Word and plan, and alter it to man's specifications.
    Think about that one. I was raised in one of the earliest organizations, and
    worked hard at it for some 35 years, and was an excellent organization man,
    before I understood that all that was necessary for eternal life was a
    personal relationship with Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord of my life, a
    concept that I had never, ever heard in that huge organization. It was at
    that point in my life that I consider the beginning of my Christian
    experience. It is a very personal relationship, and one that no religious
    organization, by any name, can claim to have an exclusive hold on. (Pardon
    the grammatical faux pas.)

    Message: 61507
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Chain letter
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 06:39:31

          For the first time, I got in the mail a good old fashioned chain
    letter, saying I should send twenty copies of it to people I know, and
    listed instances of good and ill fortune of those that have gotten it.
    Another one can be added:  "Alan Hamilton in Phoenix, AZ, didn't pass it on,
    and saved $5.00 in postage."
          It's rather frightening that there are people that actually believe in
    these things.
         It contained one unexplained religious reference:  just a "St. Jude" at
    the bottom, the patron saint of classified ads.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 61508
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/qualifications
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 09:44:54

    Congratulations on the 90%! 'Good show Governor'! Soon, you will be able to
    defend yourself against the Sysopette. (grin) -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61509
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/Mother of ...
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 10:01:58

    Of course, your post was strickly your opinion. I see where you coming from,
    but that post is what some of us are talking about -- one Christian cutting
    down another one's belief's. In this case - the Catholic Church, which you
    have always condemned. I ask again - how do you know their belief's are
    wrong and yours are right? Isn't it a matter of preference? If you lived in
    some parts of this country or even over in Italy, you'd have no doubt been
    born a Catholic. In your opinion, whould this have condemned you to hell
    because of fate? Would you be any more or any less the same Christian you
    are now? If you (also) prayed to the saints, Mary, said your Rosery daily,
    went to Mass EVERY Sunday, took Communion, etc. etc. would this be hurting
    you - your chances of Heaven? Stop me if I'm wrong, but don't you and the
    Catholics pray to the very same God? If I remember correctly, they can't get
    to Heaven without believing in Christ. So why the condemnation? OR - why
    are you so rightous about it? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61510
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ZPaul/errors
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 10:06:45

    Will wonders never cease! You actually admitted to Scriptural error! I also
    believe that it begun with the formation of religious organizations. But it
    this is the case, then how can you believe in ALL that the Bible says? Maybe
    I am taking you wrong here??! Haven't you said in the past that there is no
    errors in the Bible? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61511
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hamilton
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 10:20:36

    Wow, you're a pretty savvy guy.

    Message: 61512
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mr. Ianuzzi
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 12:01:59

    That's what you think.  I suggest you reread your next to last reply, and
    then, reread my third to last reply.  Then reread my second to last reply,
    your second to last reply, my initial post, and your initial response.
    Lastly, read my initial reply to your initial response.

    THEN try and tell me you no longer care.

    Message: 61513
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Guys
    Date: 10/08/89  Time: 13:59:13

    Re:  "Sandy is in 'Distinguished Masters' and 'Advanced Combat
    Shotgun'...."

    Hey guys, don't mess with Sandy!  Don't let her mild manners fool ya.
    Inside beats a heart that's tough as all outdoors!

    Message: 61514
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mr. Beck
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 03:18:40

    That was your most clearly phrased response of all.

    Message: 61515
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Alan/letter
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 05:42:22

    Such things are not only stupid and futile, they are also illegal. Copies of
    any chain letter should be immediately turned over to the Postal Inspection
    service for investigation and prosecution. Look them up under the U.S.Postal
    Service listings in the blue pages of the phone book and ask for
    instructions.

    Message: 61516
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ANN!
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 05:55:55

     I do not, never have and never will condemn anyone who names the name of
    Christ to hell. I have many good friends who attend ROman Catholic churches,
    with whom I have every expectation of spending eternity.
     I am simply pointing out, as I have in the past and will continue to do in
    the future, the lack of Scriptural fondation for many of the teachings of
    the RCC. Much of what the RCC teaches as dogma is man-made tradition, and
    much of that has as it's purpose the keeping of it's people in ignorance and
    fear. The RCC has, until just recently, gone so far as to discourage or even
    forbid Bible reading by it's people, telling them that the only ones who can
    properly read and interpret the Bible are their priests! This is pure
    hogwash! The Bible is God's love letter to His creation, and is to be read
    and absorbed by every one! Many other practices fond in the RCC are without
    justification. Some that come to mind are confession of sins to another
    sinner. (Just because he wears a priest's vestments doesn't make him any
    less a human, and the Bible clearly says in Romans 3 that ALL (read that
    ALL!) have sinned and come short of GOd's glory. How then, can another
    sinner have the authority to forgive sins, an authority reserved for GOd,
    who has already purchased forgiveness with the blood of His Son Jesus?
     While I stand to correct and point out the many errors in the organization
    called the Roman Catholic church, I absolutely refuse to judge or condemn
    any individual for the building he or she chooses to worship in. God, and
    God alone, knows the sincerity of the human heart. I praise Him that He has
    taken the awesome responsibility of judgement upon Himself. I surely don't
    want it! I hope this clarifies your thinking on the matter.

    Message: 61517
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ZAnn/errors
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 06:08:52

     No dear. I never said there is no errors in the Bible. I said that I
    believe that there ARE no errors in the Bible.
     Now that we have the statement more grammatically correct, let me say, once
    again, that you seem to be experiencing some confusion between apples and
    oranges. I believe the Bible to be the Word of God, as inerrant and as
    applicable to living in 1989 as it was the moment God breathed it into
    existence.
     This belief does not, in any way, extend to the organizations that men have
    created, usually by committee, and called churches. They come in many shapes
    and sizes, and call themselves by different names, and many of them have
    some very strange ideas abot what God "really meant" when He said "thus and
    so". Like, maybe "so and thus" would fit better into our personal theology,
    or like maybe this or that passage really wasn't meant for today, or this
    other chchapter died with the apostles, or some such nonsense.
     Actually, God's Word has not changed over the years. Many have read things
    into it that God never intended, and others have read out of it those things
    that they fond uncomfortable, and much of the misinterpretation has found
    it's way into the warp and woof of many religious organizations.
     The Bible is to each person all that the individual wants it to be.
    Personally, I will take it the way God reveals it to my spirit, even when it
    hurts, as it sometimes does. After all, a loving Father always tells his
    kids the truth, sometimes to praise and other times to correct or
    discipline.I believe that my Heavenly Father does the same for me. He does
    it directly, through His Word, not through an organization, second hand.

    Message: 61518
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul/RCC
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 06:41:22

    You are right there about them not wanting you to read the Bible. Even when
    I was a kid, it was the same. In fact, I do not remember reading it ever -
    only Catacisums(sp?) and other Catholic material. I also went to a Catholic
    school for about 5 years and we didn't read it. In fact, I didn't see a so
    called Catholic Bible until I was an adult and a non-member. We just
    believed everything the priests and nuns told us. On the other hand, in my
    daughter's church, they do not read the Bible very much either - but listen
    to their preacher tell them what it means. They respect him highly because
    he has translated it from Greek! Why that is so important, I don't know. Her
    church is non-denominational.
    Even though I could not go back to the R.C.C. I still respect it. I spent my
    happiest times there. It is the type of religion (ritualistic) that appeals
    to me if I was so inclinded. It made me feel safe and secure - knowing that
    if I did what was right, I'd definately go to Heaven! In those days, the
    priest (my priest) was a friend as well as a spiritual advisor. Now, we
    pay a fortune to phychologists, doctors and family counselors to do what the
    priest did for free! He solved our problems because we believed and
    respected him - and it usually worked - and he was usually right.
                               -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61519
    Author: Julie Delgado
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Nick I./catholics
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 19:00:34

    Catholics are some of the most superstitious people in the world.  I was
    born and raised a Catholic, and I could tell you stories that would make you
    wince.
    For example, my mother loved to watch the Newlywed Game.  Everytime she
    heard a risque answer, she would make the sign of the cross and fiddle with
    her rosary.  But she would continue to watch.
    My brother and I used to stand near her bedroom door at night and listen to
    her talk in her sleep.  "Oh Senor Eubanks, hee-hee-hee!!" she would titter.
    It was most disgusting.

    Message: 61520
    Author: David Ray
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Old-Mature
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 19:44:10

    HHHMMMM....Do you consider 'Old' and 'Mature' Synonimous?
    I'll be very disappointed if you say 'yes'.

    Message: 61521
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 20:24:03

    That depends.  How old are you?

    Message: 61522
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann/#61509
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 21:33:36

    Ann,

    Too many of today's Christians feel  that _their_ way is the only way to
    Christ (by 'Christians',  I include all Christian sects).   The way that
    _they_ interpret what the Bible says, is the only way to interpret it.

    I used to get heavily  involved in these religious conversations/topics,
    but after  much reading of the Bible,  a lot of thinking,  and even more
    prayer.....I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter.  All that
    matters is what Christ told us in John 3:16  "For God so loved the world
    that He gave His only begotten Son,  that whoever believes in Him should
    not perish, but have eternal life." NAS

    If you'll notice, He said "WHOEVER believes in Him".   He didn't put any
    conditions into His statement. All of this extra hoopla is just man made
    rhetoric. Christ knows who believes in Him and who doesn't.

    Message: 61523
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Religion
    Subject: more on last....
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 21:35:03

    If you were raised Roman Catholic and  taught to pray  to Christ through
    Mary,  Christ knows who you're  really praying to.  It doesn't matter to
    Him if you pray through Mary.....what matters is that you believe in Him
    and are praying to Him.   Christ doesn't care if you were  baptisized by
    immersion or sprinkling.   Nor does He care if you cross yourself before
    you pray to Him.   If you want to worship Him in your home,  that's okay
    with Him. If you want to worship him in a forrest, that's okay with Him.
    If you want to worship him in a R/C church, that's okay with Him also.

    Too many of today's Christians  (including Roman Catholics) are like the
    Pharisees of Christ's day.   People are too  worried about the letter of
    the Law and not about the Spirit.

    .....the previous was only _my_ opinion.

    Message: 61524
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Question?
    Subject: last
    Date: 10/09/89  Time: 23:22:42

    What's a forrest?

    Message: 61526
    Author: James Buffet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Yes, Lloyd
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 03:41:02

    I would like to worship in a radio controlled church.  Preferably one near
    an AM/PM Mini Market, in case I get thirsty.

    Right now though, I'm going to concentrate on a specific tank battle during
    WWII.

    Message: 61527
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 05:40:17

     Just a couple  of comments on your message.
     First, as to the priest solving all your problems and seemingly having all
    the right answers. That is something that anyone with a minimum of training
    and the ability to view your situation objectively could do as well. For the
    most part, the only reason we have trouble solving our own problems is
    because we are too close to them, and subjectively involved in them. THere
    is nothing "magical" about a turned around collar or priestly robes.
     Secondly, the sense that "if you did everything right you were assured of
    going to heaven" is one of the major falsities of RCC teaching, (along with
    some other religious organizations.) Our salvation (the process by which we
    are assured of eternal life with God) is not gained at all by our works, or
    what we do. It is assured by our acceptance of what Jesus Christ has already
    done for us. We can't even buy a ticket! THe price has already been paid!
    That is the beauty of God's plan. It's simplicity. "Believe on the Lord
    Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved."
    While it is true that Christians believe in good works, and should live in
    them, it is not in order to get saved. It is because we already have been
    saved, by Christ's finished work on the cross.
    Have a blessed day!

    Message: 61528
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: God
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 06:18:40

    Vist Irland and see what the people that worship Christ are doing to each
    other in the name of the Lord.

    Message: 61529
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Lloyd
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 07:33:42

    Good posts. My feelings exactly. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61530
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/priests
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 07:36:17

    There IS something 'magical' about a turned around collar if one believes it
    is so! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61531
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ralph/last
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 07:37:26

    That's nothing new - they've been doing that for centuries! Unfortunately,
    they haven't just limited it to Ireland. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61532
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: People's mag.
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 07:53:29

    I got the special issue of People's the other day - it's all about the 80s.
    Some interesting statistics here ......

    In 1980 - there was 2.8 gallons of bottled water per captia.
    In 1989 - there was 7.2 gallons
    In 80 - there was 380,400 cosmetic surgical procedures preformed
    In 89 - 681,070
    In 80 - there was 4,114 Americans with a million dollars or more.
    In 89 - there is 35,875
    In 80 - there was 29.2 million living in poverty.
    In 87 - there is 32.5 million
    In 81 - the U.S. minium wage was $3.35
    In 89 - it's $3.35
    In 80 - the prison population was 329,821
    In 88 - it was 627,402
    In 80 - the defence budget was $134 billion
    In 89 - it's $298.3 billion
    In 80 - the budget deficit was $73.8 billion
    In 89 - it's $155.1 billion
    In 80 - the trade deficit was $19.7 billion
    In 89 - it is 119.8 billion.
    It looks to me like we're not getting better - but worse! The article also
    stated that the 70s was the 'Me' generation and the 80 are the 'gimmie'
    generation! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61533
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 11:34:47

    There goes another Rod williams theory; "We're evolving into something
    better"

    Message: 61534
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann 61532
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 12:26:30

    Yes, Ann, it's true:  After thousands of years of civilization, mankind has
    finally - just this decade - sunk to a new low.

    Message: 61535
    Author: Robert Simpson
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Christianity
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 17:13:31

    On the contrary, most Christians I know (including myself) would not tell
    you that "our" way is the right way.  I would instead, instruct you to read
    the Bible yourself, and interpret it yourself first.  However, some of the
    interpretations vary depending on who does the interpreting!  Indeed, many
    interpretations of the same verse can be made, and all sound alarmingly like
    the truth.  Thus, divisons in the church.  If anyone asks me something about
    God or salvation, I pull out my bible.  What I say, I back up, and if I
    don't know something, I look it up.  I won't tell you that's "my" way to get
    to Heaven, I'll just show you what God says you need to do to get there.

    JT:  If any spelling errors are found in the above paragraph, I do
    apologize in advance.  OH, I forgot to indent.  So sorry!

    Message: 61536
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Todd
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 17:46:53

    Re:  "What's a forrest?"

    A "forrest" is where one goes to pray!

    Message: 61537
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 10/10/89  Time: 18:10:38

    Well, let's see.
    In 1979, inflation was around 20%.
    In 1989, it's about 4 or 5%.
    In 1979, the prime interest rate was around 20%.
    In 1989, it's 10.5%.
    In 1979, the speed limit on rural interstates was 55 mph.
    In 1989, it's 65 mph.
    In 1979, the Soviets had invaded Afghanistan, and in 1981, martial law was
    declared in Poland.
    In 1989, the Soviets are out of Afghanistan and Poland has a non-communist
    government.
    In 1979, VCRs and personal computers were luxury items owned only by an
    elite few.
    In 1989, they're as common as automobiles.
    In 1979, Jimmy Carter was president.
    In 1989, George Bush is president.

    The state of the world is much better today than it was in the late 70s.  As
    one who came of age in the 80s, all I can say is that it's been a great
    decade.  I hope the 90s are as good.

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:News

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:The video that is the most rented in Beruit is Rambo.
     2:
     3:The man who shot and killed President Garfield said that God told him to do
     4:it.  He said that God only used the best minds that were available.
     5:
     6:

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