### Apollo BBS Archive - May 6, 1998

    Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 779
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: Bad Dog!
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 11:28:45

                       ____________________________________
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                       :    :   \:__\_:_/__:/   :    :    :
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                       :    :    :l l : l l:/   :    :    :
                       :    :    (__) : (__)    :    :    :
                       :____;____:____:____:____:____:____:

    WARNING! Bad Dog! He is a criminal and must be punished!
    His crime: He might have bitten someone.
    His punishment: 7 days behind bars in unsanitary conditions - taken
    away from his loved ones and home. His other crimes: He had his rabies
    shots, but they are only 99% preventable, so he must be punished. - his
    licence was expired for two weeks which is a major crime against
    humanity and he must be punished.

    Message: 780
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 18:16:32

    Gosh, and I thought it looked like an owl.  Isn't there a law about dogs
    that look like owls?

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Dog in cage

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        Looks mean to me, I say execute the thing.

    The outer COSmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 1283
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: POINTS
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 02:22:46

    I guess everythink is pointless, then.

    Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 52057
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: War!
    Subject: Leykis, et al
    Date: 05/05/88  Time: 22:11:43

    The Broadcast Group and the Friends of Tom Leykis, et al, settled out of
    court today. tBG (the owners of KFYI) agreed to drop request for monetary
    damages and the FoTL agreed to write a letter of apology and non-intent to
    damage businesses or control the operation of KFYI or some such. It's been a
    few hours since I caught the news story.

    Rev. Beau

    Message: 52058
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: RE: Rod Williams
    Date: 05/05/88  Time: 22:52:57

    I agree that people should speak out.  My only beef with your speaking out
    was that it was (at times) merely negative, without any redeeming values
    (such as suggestions for improving the situtation).

    Oh well...

    Michael Kielsky

    Message: 52059
    Author: Jeff Woods
    Category: Bulletins
    Subject: Finally, it's UP!
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 00:37:22

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    Message: 52060
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/dog pound
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 05:55:27

    Not to increase your emotional stress over your daughter's dog, but if I
    were you, when you get him bac, take him immediately to your on vet for a
    general checkup. I have seen many healthy animals go tothe pound and come
    back sick. Very sick. The situation down there is deplorable when it comes
    to sanitary maintenance or cleanliness.
     It probably won't do much good, but you can always call the pound and vent
    your spleen on Dr. TOm Kelly, the guy in charge of the whole fiasco. I was
    party to a group who several years ago carried complaints as far as the
    county board of supervisors, and got the shop of horrors (old pound) on E.
    Hess St. closed down and the new one built onm W. Durango. Now I uindersand
    that the situation there is not much better. You have my sympathy, 6+and
    wishes for the best of luck with your pet.

    Message: 52061
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 05:56:15

    THanks for the list. I hope many print it out and use it.

    Message: 52062
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dogs
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 06:38:02

       A number of years ago, I had the reverse problem.  I was bitten by a
    German Shepard that was unrestrained, and had trouble convincing the city
    that it had bit me.  Naturaly, the owners said that their little pufkins
    wouldn't EVER bite anyone.  The city wanted proof that that particular dog
    had bit me.  That owner had several dogs, all free to roam the neighborhood.
    The pound finaly did take it for the seven days, then returned it.  The
    owners complained bitterly about this.  As it was, I was out the hospital
    costs for treating the bite.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 52063
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/pound
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 09:43:41

    Thank you for understanding and yes, we intend to take him to the vet as
    soon as we get him back. Re: the pound - to be honest, I am half afraid to
    open 'that kettle of worms' again! I did once, when I lived in Prescott. I
    had went there to get (adopt) a dog and found the conditions deplorable. No
    one was there to take care of the dogs or see that they found homes. When I
    got home, I phoned around, but got no answers from anyone who could tell me
    who was in charge of it. I sat down and wrote a heated letter to the Editor
    of the Prescott Courier. The next day, the paper came at 4:PM and it had
    been published - at 4:01 I started to get threatening phone calls! (Our
    phone number was easy to find being the only 'Oudin's' in the phone book and
    the paper had published my name which I had requested they not do! To my
    utter amazement, the calls were not by people agreeing and wanting to do
    something about it (NOT ONE either!) - but by 'crazies' that threatened me -
    saying I was the nut and didn't know what I was talking about etc. etc. -
    that I was trying to start up a war between animal lovers and the law and
    that I'd pay for it if it got started up. One guy claimed he was a city
    official (he wouldn't give his name either) said the pound was being moved
    to a new location and that was only a temperary situation. (The dogs were at
    the Prescott Downs race track - in absolutely filthy outdoor cages - in 19
    degree weather - snow on the ground - no food or water - two dogs were dead
    and had been for several hours!) Most looked sick. There was about 50 dogs
    there. I was one of six people waiting to adopt one of the dogs - four of us
    waited two hours for someone to show up. I'll confess - one of the men and I
    turned into criminals at least briefly. Cont.

    Message: 52064
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/more horrors
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 10:00:24

    HE got tools from his truck and we decided to brake the dogs out - take what
    we wanted and trasport the rest to another guy's garage. All four of us
    agreed to feed them. Well - it didn't happen simply because we didn't have
    the right tools - but we sure tried like heck. Of course, we would have all
    been put in jail - but we were willing if it just opened a few eyes. It
    might have at that because four days later the dogs were gone - we never
    found out where the city took them (not to their supposed new home) and six
    months later, the new pound did open with much improved conditions. For two
    days after, I still got threatening calls and out of 25 - 30, only one
    person gave their name. When my husband went to work the next  day (he layed
    carpet for Barrow's) - they told him to not mention his name to the
    customers for awhile and he actually got a repermending from them bcause he
    let me write to the editor - made it clear not to let it happen again. Way
    over a year after this incident - we were at a dance in a local pub and I
    happened to mention my name to some half drunk woman at the table next to us
    and she had remembered my letter and started calling me every name in the
    book and we had to leave. It was all a frightening experiance and I never
    did figure out why everyone was so mad at me for reporting the conditions.
    It was like they didn't want to know or something. It made me leary of doing
    it again - getting involved. I have, but discretely! =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 52065
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Alan/dogs
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 10:17:41

    Of course, we can't have those conditions either. Most people would react
    like that - saying their 'little cutesy pie' would never bite anyone etc.
    The law has changed since then though. There is always two sides to the
    story - but when they make up these laws, instead of going too far - make
    them simple. In your case, these people should have paid for any medical
    expenses. The dog should have been put in quanteen in his own home for a
    period of 7 days and a vet check up also. If their kid bit you - it ought to
    be the same because a human bite can be worse than a dog's. What I cannot
    understand is the extremeity of this law. It is totally contradictory. The
    only law we broke was having the dog's lic. expire. His rabies shot was
    legal and that was supposedly why they took him - but I ask the man if the
    dog's lic. was up to date, would they take him and he replied no? That
    doesn't make a bit of sense. Why couldn't we have just went down the next
    day and got a lic. for him and kept him home under observation for 7 days
    and then a vet check up - take all the papers down to the city and prove the
    dog did not have rabies and has a current licence? The guy said he was
    taking him because even though his shot was up to date - it's only good 99%
    so they had to. So I ask - what good does it do to lic. your dog and get it
    rabies shots? He just shrugged his shoulders. We are fully prepared to pay
    for any medical the little girl may need if the wound got infected etc. It
    happened on our primices whether it was a bite or a scratch. So we feel
    responsiable.
    Perhaps this is no big thing and I am reacting too much, but the situation
    left three kids and my daughter crying and we will all be holding our breath
    until the dog is safe back home. We know the dogs are kept in small damp
    cages that arn't too clean. Only fed dry dog food and is in much danger of
    getting disease from other dogs. It will cost close to $100 by the time we
    get him back. (this is all for a 'maybe' it was a bite not a scratch!) That
    is - if the girl doesn't need medical treatment. I also ask they guy if
    people sometimes put up a real fight when he goes to take their dogs - he
    said at least half of the time and some officers have been killed doing so
    or hurt and need hospitalization. I wouldn't do that - but can understand.
    My dogs are part of our family - a big part and for someone to come in and
    take them from me for any of these reason, would cause heartache. What
    happens if that dog belonged to some elderly person that had nothing else in
    the world but that dog? Couldn't even go get the dog when the 7 days were up
    or had the money to do so? Anyway - the way the law is  - it is only to
    fill the coffers - to h$#% with the owners & the dogs. They could just fine
    the people - quarateen the dog at home - make them pay any medical exspences
    and let it go at that. I'm not talking about a vicious dog that has a
    history of biting people either. Just common sense. =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 52067
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Alan/P.S.
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 10:50:29

    I ask - how many cases of rabies in dogs in Phoenix in the last 10 years?
    How many people have gotten rabies and died? How many before all these laws?
    It must be a minute ammount because I never heard of one person dying of
    rabies except in foriegn countries from wild animals. YEt - we pay millions
    a year to have our dogs get shots. How many people here have to have the
    rabies shots in the stomach? Does anyone know the statistics on this? David
    - your father is a doctor - does he have anything to say on the subject? I'm
    curious. =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 52068
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Ann/Letter to the Ed
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 13:46:14

    The reactions of the people in Prescott seem to be strange.  You don't have
    a copy of your letter that you could upload so we could see?

    Message: 52069
    Author: $ Lloyd Pulley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann Oudin
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 15:25:58

    Ann,

       On this one we're in disagreement.  While I sympathize with you and your
    family, I also don't believe in taking chances.  If there is one chance in a
    million that your dog *might* have rabies, the dog should be locked up for
    the 7 days.

       Yes, you're inconvienced.  Yes, it'll cost your daughter $35 (which she
    wouldn't have had to spend if she'd gotten a current license for the dog).
    Yes, your daughter and her children will miss their pet FOR 7 DAYS.  But
    what would happen if the dog did have rabies?  What pain and agony would the
    other little girl have to go through?

       You say, why can't I keep my dog at home and have him examined at the end
    of 7 days?  You'd be surprised at how many people aren't as responsible as
    you are and would take their dog somewhere else if he tested positive....
    leaving the poor little girl to get rabie shots.

    (LL)oyd Pulley

    Message: 52070
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Astrology
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 16:51:13

    This Sunday at 10a.m. on KFYI (910 AM), Mike Stackpole of the Phoenix
    Skeptics will be debating Terry Warnke of the American Federation of
    Astrologers.  It should be a lively exchange.

    Message: 52071
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Above
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 17:56:27

      That sounds like fun.  I hope he asks them what they would say to my
    favorite test of astrology:
      You take a questionaire, with questions determined by the AFofA (for
    example), asking anything they want about a person except his date of birth.
    It is expected that they would ask about attitutes, occurances in the past,
    occupation, etc.
      Then you take the questionaires, divide them into twelve piles, with
    each stack containing all the people of one sun-sign.  Then let the
    astrologers tell us which pile is which.
      The null hypotheses:  they won't do better than a random guess.

    ==========  Pascal  #(O,O)# Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ==========

    Message: 52072
    Author: Apro Poet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Reality Club
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 19:41:14

      SL: It's rare to have a forum to consider these topics,
    unless you're in a university setting or something.
      JB: Right.  I find that in New York, there are very few
    opportunities to sit down with people and discuss ideas in a
    rigorous manner.  Most interactions are either social or
    business, and it's a rare occasion and special treat to be
    able to sit down with people who are your equals and
    seriously discuss what you've been thinking about.  It's
    funny you mention academia because my vision for the club -
    which I finally semi-formalized in 1981 to the point of
    calling it The Reality Club - came as a reaction to that.  I
    remember I was on a long car trip with Katinka Matson, and I
    described to her what I thought was a witty idea for a club
    for the bright people I knew - most of them were unable to
    get in any kind of club, fraternity, or sorority in school
    because of their brains.  This club would have its own club
    jacket, motto, and exclusive membership.  And the name, of
    course, was a pun.  Anyone who has read my books understands
    that my goal was to pose a challenge to contemporary ideas
    of language, thought, and reality.  But the joke was on me.
    People took it very seriously, and still do.  People like
    you, Steven.  Facts smirk.
      SL: How do you become a member of the Reality Club?
      JB: If you give a talk, you're a member.
      SL: How do you pick who talks?
      JB: Finding the speakers is a word-of-mouth enterprise.
    Quite often it simply comes down to people who interest me.
    Or a member will call or talk to me during a meeting and
    suggest someone they are interested in hearing.  There is no
    selection committee.

     The preceding text was from *Whole Earth Review*, Summer,
    1987.

    Message: 52074
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Kielsky
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 20:15:24

            Thanks for the comments, I'll take them under advisement.
                                    Rod

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:Yes,

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        This board has gone to the dogs!
     2:                        Rod
     3:P.S.  I was caught shoving cats over the wall at the local pound.  I took
     4:them from their cages and helped them excape.  I was given a warning and let
     5:go.
     6:        According to my information, there has never been a reported case of
     7:a dog with rabies in the Phoenix area.  The dog catchers will admit this but
     8:they still have their job to do.  Some of the drivers are nice but beware of
     9:the ones who like to show how much authority they have.

    VOID Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 1329
    Author: $ Mike Howerton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 00:05:16

    Reminds you of James, doesn't he??

    Message: 1331
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 05/06/88  Time: 02:29:08

    Ju tawkin bout me?

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