### Apollo BBS Archive - June 22, 1990

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     1:My mouse was acting real strange this past week.  In fact it more or less
     2:froze up my screen.  I had to press very hard in order to scroll and then
     3:sometimes it would not work.
     4:
     5:I cleaned it, the ball and rollers in the ordinary fashion but this did not
     6:help.
     7:
     8:As a last resort I took it apart, pried the little metal covers from the two
     9:contacts, left and right, then cleaned these with air and a pencil eraser.
    10:
    11:I then, as an afterthought, took two strips of thin paperboard and put them
    12:under my circuit board in order to make the travel of the outer mouse
    13:buttons shorter.
    14:
    15:I put everything back together and now I have a mouse that works like new.
    16:
    17:Have you had such problems with the Atari mice?
    18:
    19:Take care, Mr Cliff.            -Rod

    Mail from Apollo SYSOP
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 22:26:16

    That was an interesting fix on your Atari Mouse...  I will have to keep that
    in mind.  I have not as yet run into that problem.

    Take care, yourself Mr Rod.             -Clif-
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:Yes, but I am not sure if cleaning the contacts helped any.  I should have
     2:done one then the other but since I did both at the same time...well perhaps
     3:I will wait until the other mouse messes up.
     4:
     5:Let me know if you find the answer.      -Rod

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 66812
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger/xts and guns
    Date: 06/21/90  Time: 22:16:00

            First, it is Electronic MATERIALS Recovery--nice place, down on
    Thomas Rd and 31st Ave.
            Second, during the bad days in L.A., a finance office in Watts,
    similar to the GMAC office in Florida, built a new office like a fort--
    black walls and bulletproof doors, no windows, bars over the teller cages,
    and four-inch thick bulletproof glass in front of the money-and payment-
    exchange windows.
            Customers all thought it was great--they felt safe going in there to
    talk to the employees, felt that there would be no disturbancewhich could be
    dangerous.
            Employees couldn't take it.  Turnover was too high, even though the
    company paid a high bonus benefit (employees called it"combat pay") and the
    cost of running the place was too high.  After about three years, it closed.
            See the way people are?
                   --John C.--

    Message: 66813
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa/crimes
    Date: 06/21/90  Time: 22:19:48

            This may not be the right time to bring this up, but I have tried to
    teach my four daughters two things: 1. stay away from dangerous situations,
    and 2.know how and when to use a handgun for self defense when you have to,
    and don't leave home without it.    --John C.--

    Message: 66814
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/communism
    Date: 06/21/90  Time: 22:23:25

            Yeah, and if we follow your scocialistic rules, we will be in about
    ten years what Russia is right now.
            How about if we offer to provide to any entrepreneur what it takes
    for him to work to develop more benefits for society as a whole, instead of
    taking away from him what SOCIALISTS decide they want to distribute?

    Message: 66815
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/humanity
    Date: 06/21/90  Time: 22:31:30

            I don't think I want to get into this too deeply, because you are
    going back into Philosophy 101, but let's start witghn those elements of
    humanity which Aristotle pointed out as being distinct from animal or plant
    life. The first of many is the power of reflection. If I kick my dog he'll
    feel pain (an animal reaction) but if I walk out there again tomorrow, he'll
    wag his tail, because he is unable to reflect that I caused pain the day
    before.  If I kick him each time I walk out there, he will eventually learn
    to associate me with a kick in the ribs, and he will avoid me. Both
    Aristotle and Pavlov figured this out.
            But only a human has the ability to reflect upon what happened
    before and deduce from that what may happen next.
            I won't go further--this is only one of about twenty of the
    Aristotelian differentiations.  You shouls check them out, really.
          --John. C--

    Message: 66816
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/21/90  Time: 23:46:53

    Do you know that for a fact? What an arrogant statement! Simply because
    other intelligent life forms don't have a sufficient language, we assume
    them stupid beasts.

    Message: 66817
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Brain Dummy
    Date: 06/21/90  Time: 23:47:45

    Hey, Cliff, is that what they use in anatomy class?

    Message: 66818
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/suicide motives
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 00:53:01

    The majority of those who die from cancer believe that they will be with
    their God looking down on their former self.  In fact, the majority of
    Americans believe this.  One should not assume a cause and effect
    relationship between religion and suicide on this basis.

    Message: 66819
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/God
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 00:58:59

    Well, I was stretching it a bit.  Actually, He is not only unaware of our
    existence, He is incapable of conceiving of beings such as ourselves.  Well,
    maybe not, but let's just say we wouldn't occur to Him in a million years.
    Similarly, the concept of verbal communication is almost inconceivable to
    Him.  It is not merely that He would find it primitive, but more to the
    point, He would be hard pressed to imagine it.  The whole concept of sound
    is beyond anything in His experience or reckoning.

    Message: 66820
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cummings/intelligenc
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 01:22:33

    A dog obviously has the ability to "reflect" what has happened in the past
    and deduce from that what may happen next -- otherwise, it would never be
    possible to condition a dog.  Dogs merely are a bit slower to tumble to
    these things than you or I.  Dogs also work from a different set of
    assumptions than you or I do, such as the dog's assumption that it's role is
    one of subservience to a wiser and more capable being -- a manifestly false
    assumption, if you ask me; but then, human beings have the same attitude
    toward their master.  Day after day, they are kicked in the teeth, yet they
    cheerfully assume that it is all somehow part of God's great plan, and they
    are quite willing to slink back into their worship places on their belly,
    ever ready to assume that the ills that befall them are either the result of
    their own sin, or the test of a wiser, greater being, or somehow part of his
    divine will.  Second, the ability to be conditioned is almost
    universal -- and certainly humans can be conditioned as readily as dogs.
    Third, not all dogs will wag their tail the second time you approach them
    after having kicked them the first time.  It depends on the dog.  Some dogs
    seem to have excellent memories, especially if they can associate that which
    is to be remembered with a particular scent.  I have known dogs to recognize
    me after many years -- even when their master has no longer does -- because
    my physical appearance has changed radically (as from childhood to
    adulthood) yet there is some unique component of my scent which the dog can
    recall.

    Message: 66821
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Glans on Cummings
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 01:26:48

    Well, what do you expect from a man with the audacity to dictate who should
    live and who should die -- based on the tenets of his own arbitrary
    religion.  What do you expect from someone who asserts himself the
    mouthpiece of God?  What do you expect from someone whose superiority is
    predicated on the species to which he belongs?  Do you see a pattern
    developing?  Next, he'll be defending manifest destiny merely because he
    happens to be a citizen of this country.

    Message: 66822
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Jeff/ the system
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 05:27:07

     Lat me tell you a little story, Jeff, about this wonderful system, at least
    as it works in sunny Arizona. Some time ago, the city of Phoenix offered
    quite a bit of the taxpayers money to a man named Zef Bufman, so that he
    cold build an amphitheater for rock groups. It was to cost some 35 million
    dollars if I recall, and there would be a license to sell beer and wine, and
    it would have attracted many young people, a large portion of which would be
    prone to the use of such things as marijuana, etc. as they listened to the
    "music". This was to be built in a very nice area of Paradise Valley, and
    many folks far and wide thought that it was a bad idea, both from the noise
    aspect as well as the prospect of putting a lot of people on the streets
    after a concert who would be under the influence of something, not to
    mention the public expense for what should have been a private enterprise.
    Petitions were drawn up, and many good people, myself included, worked very
    hard to get enough signatures to get the city council's attention. We got
    more than enough, got the initiative on the ballot to prevent the council
    from spending more than $3 mil on such projects without a vote o the people,
    and it passed by a huge majority.  Guess what? In the face of the law, now
    known as proposition 200, the city is building Bufman's amphitheater, with
    our money, in another section of the city! So much for the system! Pardon
    this old man's disillusionment, but it sucks around here!  Now, on the state
    level, there are at least 3 petitions being circulated against the toxic
    waste facility at Mobile. Since the greasing of pockets is so obvious, wanna
    bet that it doesn't gt built anyway? It's a done deal.
    Like it or not. Breathe while you still can.

    Message: 66823
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 07:00:36

    Lately, I have seen many people talking about the extinction of species
    through our destruction of their environment. It seems to have become
    fashionable to say, "Well, human life is more important than other life,
    we can't save animals at the expense of people"
     They think that the human species has the right to multiply out of control,
    run over everything in sight. Keep just the species we can USE. Reproduce!

    Oh yes, I resent the title of your message.

    Message: 66824
    Author: Ken Back
    Category: Politics
    Subject: air
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 07:26:33

    We have all heard the expression "You are
    what you eat" Well that was OK when our
    air was clean and we only had to be
    concerned with the foods we consumed.
    But today with the chemicals being dumped
    in the air and water at industrially
    plants and even next to own homes with
    bug and weed killer its time to up date
    the expression.
    YOU ARE WHAT YOU ABSORB

    Message: 66825
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: DeanH/Calif
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 07:35:30

    I agree. Draconian measures are not necessary. Simple and
    effective enforcement of the existing laws should suffice.

    Message: 66826
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Jeff/maniacs
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 07:38:39

    If you think it is a waster of time, then don't participate. I disagree
    with you because I don't think it's a waste of time.

    Message: 66827
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on rape
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 10:05:53

    Lets take a hypothetical story here to see what's wrong with the system
    today ... a woman is getting raped in plain sight - no question about it and
    some guy out of the crowd stops it by roughing the guy up a bit - he may hit
    the guy or break his leg - what ever it takes to save this rape victim. In
    this crazy society, the guy that did the raping can turn around and sue the
    guy that did the saving and end up with more than the rapee and the savee!
    The guy that stepped in may lose his life savings   helping another. See?
    It's all nuts! I'm not saying we ought not to try to help, but we would be
    taking a big chance in doing it. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66828
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on suicide
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 10:08:51

    Re: "7 years in jail and or $150,000"

    That makes no sense if you think about it - hows a guy gonna spend 7 years
    in jail and make enough money to pay the fine?

    I wouldn't be surprised that if that person did committe suicide, the courts
    made his family pay that fine. After all, the poor dude did break the law!
    *Heh *Heh -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66829
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on trees
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 10:12:42

    That post reminded me of an old movie called Tabonga - where a tree over a
    grave got up and walked around killing every body because the corpse buried
    underneath was evil. Gads, we can't have that can we? -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. I got more laughs out of this movie than any other. That was the most
    stupidest looking tree I ever saw! He (it) had a knife sticking out of it's
    heart! Hahahahahahhahaha

    Message: 66830
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hara-kiri, etc.
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 17:34:39

       At one time, attempted suicide was a capital offense in England.  But
    then, so was have "MacGregor" as a last name.  Crazy Englishmen.
       At one time, suicide was seen as the honorable way out of an embarassing
    situation in Japan, and there was a lot of it going on.  They passed a law
    against it, and then there was less of it.  You see, since the point of the
    suicide was to be honorable, but breaking the law was dishonorable, those
    who *would* kill themselves as a point of honor could no longer do so.  It
    couldn't, of course, stop *all* suicide.
       The Japanese friend who supposedly said "hari-kari" no doubt actually
    said "hara-kiki", but it is the nature of us gai-jin to mix the sounds of
    foreign words, so the listener could certainly have *heard* "hari-kari".

                             #(O,O)#  Hoot!

    Message: 66831
    Author: Carla Ackley
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger T.
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 18:52:51

    Itai! Itai!

    Message: 66832
    Author: Carla Ackley
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Graves
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 18:55:20

     I've always felt the same way. I looked upon the graveyards as a waste of
    space. I would rather see a natural looking area than a bunch of tombstones.
     I think cremation is a better alternative. If you look at it from the
    Christian viewpoint- you cant be resurrected then. How would you find your
    body?

    Message: 66833
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 19:46:56

    Re:  "the guy that did the raping can turn around and sue the guy that did
    the saving"

    Like I said before, our judicial system is at fault.  If our judicial system
    could be corrected, a lot of our crime problems would be solved.

    Message: 66834
    Author: Randy Sanders
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hello Out There!
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 20:26:43

    Is Anyone really listening?
    How is it going with You all?
    This is my First Time on Board
    Where is all the Fun at around Here anyway?
    Is There a Poetry BBS-SIG group, eh?
    O well, I hope Rod Williams goes To Hell.

    Message: 66835
    Author: Randy Sanders
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod Williams
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 20:30:12

    Hey Dude, it is Too Cool in The Pool To Drool:
    so whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat's haaaaaaaaaappening Dude?
    Computer Sex isn't just what It used to Be, eh?
    That I would drop You a "line" - back to "REAL-ity"
    Say Who & Go Where?
    Say "hello" to Melody & The Kids I will drop by sometime.
    Well, I thought I would drop a Line or two.
    bye - now. -randy

    Message: 66836
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hans/Animals
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:03:15

    Sorry, I didn't mean to sound arrogant, and I don't feel that way, really.
    I'm just stating that I perceive a distinct, essential, actual difference
    between mankind and all other creation. The difference is not in sufficiency
    of language. There are many.  /The one I pointed out was the ability to
    reflect, to remember facts and make deductions from them. Perhaps better: to
    take, mentally, two or three or four items, consider them, and from that
    consideration draw or deduce a new idea, not one of the three or four. This
    is exclusively a human ability.       --John C.--

    Message: 66837
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff/reflection
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:13:07

            Memory is different from reflection; in degree and in kind. Yes, the
    dog can reemember, and the dog can be programmed--as I said earlier, Pavlov
    and others proved this.  Butm the dog cannot "reflect"--by that I mean that
    the dog cannot call to mind three or four facts in his memory and from
    considering them, deduce a new fact or set of facts.
            I have a lovely argument for this board (actually, it comes from the
    tenth century, but it still raises hackles.) Goes like this: some humans
    or people appear not able to do this, either.  How do we define humanity?
    What is the distinction between man and beast? Is it that man is rational?
    But rationality cannot be measured! Therefore, some of these erect bipeds
    with opposing thumbs and speech ability are probably not really human! They
    don't seem to be able to reflect! They are really animals, and may be
    treated as such!
            A fun argument, except it reached tragedy in the south U.S. in the
    1850s, when it was applied to blacks who were not allowed to learn to read.
            Hey, argue against it! But with reason, rationality, and logic, not
    just loudmouthed tirades.      --John C.--

    Message: 66838
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beck on Cummings
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:15:51

            Hey, I don't argue based on the tenets of my own religion.  So far,
    we've just been talking reason and logic. When we get to religion, I'll ask
    you to bone up on Albigensianisn, because that's what I am. And I argue
    withy you and with the Bishop of Hippo!

    Message: 66839
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John/Pavlov
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:43:48

    And if you kick you daughter she will feel pain (an animal reaction).  But
    if you see her the next day she will smile.

    I think what you are trying to say is that an animal, any animal that is
    dependent on you for its survival can be very forgiving.  Someone put it as
    thus, "Don't bite the hand that feeds thee."

    What makes Aristotelian Philosophy correct?  Convenience?

    Why do dogs growl at or avoid those who have been mean to it?  This does not
    apply to those who feed it.

    If you think the killing of approximately six million Jews was bad then that
    isn't anything compared to the hundreds of million cattle that are being
    slaughtered for the human animals convenience.

    It's a dog eat dog world.  Right Beau?

    Message: 66840
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Suicide (1 of 4)
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:52:19

    HERE IS A SHORT DOWNLOAD FROM MY RESEARCH ON SUICIDE.  -ROD

     Some forms are direct, such as shooting oneself. Other forms are
    indirect, such as refusing to take actions necessary for self-preservation.
    Researchers have found that some indirect suicides even take the form of
    homicide-suicide, in which an individual arranges to be killed by someone
    else, generally because the person cannot do it or feels that it would be
    immoral if he or she did it but moral if someone else did.

     During the 19th century social researchers commonly believed suicide to
    be a "disease of civilization." Suicide seemed to be increasing in modern
    societies and absent in more primitive cultures. Anthropologists now believe
    that suicides occur in virtually all societies, although rates of suicide
    vary considerably from one society to another. In some cultures, notably
    Japan, traditional values have encouraged suicide in certain situations.
    HARA-KIRI (also known as seppuku) traditionally was a highly valued form of
    suicide that was committed to avoid overwhelming shame, such as would be
    incurred after an act of disloyalty or a defeat.

     Some analysts have suggested that certain individuals may be born with a
    greater tendency to depression and thereby a greater inclination toward
    suicide. Even these analysts agree, however, that culture, personality, and
    the individual situation are important influences on the tendency to commit
    suicide. Such factors help to explain why various societies and subgroups

    Message: 66841
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 2 of 4
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:53:01

    have such widely varying official rates of  suicide. In the mid-1970s,
    suicide rates among nations ranged from a high of 38.4 per 100,000 persons
    in Hungary to 2.1 per 100,000 in Mexico. In the United States, where about
    25,000 suicides occur per year, more men commit suicide than women and more
    older people commit suicide than younger people. The suicide rate in the
    15-24 age group has been rising sharply in recent years, however. By 1978
    the rate among young people  stood at 12.4 per 100,000, up 41% from 1970 and
    138% from 1960.

    Roman Catholic nations traditionally tend to have low suicide rates
    largely because the church views suicide as a sin and normally  excludes
    those who kill themselves from a Christian burial. It is easy to see that
    this outlook gives everyone concerned--including the victim, the family, the
    friends, and even the clergy--an incentive to make the suicide appear to
    have been an accident or even a murder. By contrast, in most Protestant,
    northern European societies, where the attitude is different, official
    suicide rates tend to be considerably higher.

     Another common form of suicide is the escape suicide. Diaries and other
    evidence about the thinking of people committing suicide reveal that they
    commonly consider their death as a "passing on to another world," or "going
    to God," or simply "escaping this world." Researchers have found that
    suicide notes almost always read as if their authors believe that they will
    still be able to witness what happens to them after they are dead. This

    Message: 66842
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 3 of 4
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:53:42

    suggests that these individuals do not think of themselves as dying when
    they commit suicide--merely that they will be living in a different way or
    in some other world.

     Revenge suicide is another important type. Suicide notes often contain
    such statements as "Now you'll be sorry for what you did" and even "It's all
    your fault" The writers intend to make others feel guilty and responsible
    for their deaths. Revenge suicides are also calculated to force others to
    blame the person "responsible" for the suicide and to feel sympathy for the
    "victim," making the target of the blame feel all the more guilty. This form
    of revenge apparently does work in many cases. Studies have shown that even
    psychiatrists who deal with suicidal patients often feel guilt when patients
    kill themselves. Parents, lovers, and others close to suicide victims are
    far more likely to feel that way.

     Researchers have advanced a number of theories in the effort to explain
    the causes of suicide. Psychological theories stress personality and
    cognitive factors. Sociological theories stress social and cultural
    factors.

    Numerous studies have shown that depression is extremely common among
    people who commit suicide. Disagreement exists, however, on whether the
    depression results from events outside the person, especially a social
    situation leading to loneliness or failure, or is organic in origin.

    Message: 66843
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 4 of 4
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 21:54:25

     Some individuals, especially those who believe that they are going to
    "another world," seem to overcome their depression and even to feel elation
    just before the suicide, probably because they feel that they have found a
    solution to the situation causing their depression. This belief that suicide
    constitutes a solution suggests another personality factor that may be
    extremely important in some cases: the victim's ideas, beliefs, and ways of
    thinking. It appears that the way people think about their problems can
    produce a greater or lesser tendency to depression and suicide. For example,
    some individuals feel more encapsulated, or closed in, by their immediate
    situations than do others. When something goes wrong they tend to feel that
    "This is the end of everything," whereas someone else facing the same
    situation might feel "Oh well, you win some, you lose some." According to
    one psychological view, some people have "basic optimism" and others have
    "basic pessimism," and this pessimism may be a deciding factor in some
    suicides.

    Bibliography: Alvarez, A., The Savage God: A Study of Suicide (1972);
    Baechler, Jean, Suicides, trans. by Barry Cooper (1979); Douglas, Jack D.,
    The Social Meanings of Suicide, (1967); Durkheim, Emile, Suicide, trans. by
    John A. Spaulding and George Simpson (1897; repr. 1951); Farberow, Norman
    L., Suicide in Different Cultures (1975) and, as ed., The Many Faces of
    Suicide (1980); Hendin, Herbert, Suicide and Scandinavia (1964) and Black
    Suicide (1969); Shneidman, Edwin S., ed., Essays in Self-Destruction (1967);
    Shneidman, E. S., and Farberow, N. L., eds., The Cry for Help (1961).

    Message: 66844
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: General
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 22:03:53

    The past four posts on suicide was taken from the A.S.U. Database.  For
    brevity I only uploaded four posts which is about half.

    JEFF BECK:  I loved your message about how employees will let themselves be
    berated for one reason or another.  A part of it is often economic as being
    without a job in this unforgiving system is worse than letting your boss
    drag you into the depths of hell.  But hey, we must have a good system.
    Just look at Russia, right?

    The more difficulty a system of government has, other than our own, makes
    our capitalistic system look all that much better.  And if you read or
    listen to the main media then you will be spoon fed what I call
    'smokescreens' just for that very reason.

    Funny how the flag issue is being pushed down our throats.  To burn one or
    not to burn one sure takes a lot of peoples minds off any real issues such
    as a hefty tax increase from all levels of government.

    Won't be long until one has to work six months per year in order to meet
    their so called obligation.  Right now it is from Jan. 1 to May 5.

    I find it ridiculous that people can be upset over some polyester cloth with
    some marks on it.  Hell, it's the other life forms who are important not ANY
    symbol.  What?  A symbol that people are being taxed into permanent poverty?

    Message: 66845
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 22:08:01

    I wouldn't give my life for a piece of cloth or this country nor any
    country.  I would give it though to save a child or another person if the
    case requires it.

    I think, in order to solve a, to some, a major problem, just take all
    American flags and burn them at some coal fired plant and let's enjoy the
    energy.

    RANDY SANDERS:   Welcome aboard.  Come again.  And, by the way, it is:

            Waasss Sappening, haven't you seen the movie?

    Message: 66846
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gary on Suicide
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 22:50:24

       The Christian position against suicide is that it is an abandoning of
    trust in God and His will. Christ taught the apostles to pray "may your will
    be done on earth as it is in heaven." The person who takes his or her own
    life is not acting in accordance with the will of God, for as Job said,
    "The LORD giveth and the LORD taketh away."
       It is my belief that it was not the betrayal of Christ that condemned
    Judas, but his suicide, because Christ's death on the cross atoned for the
    sins of all mankind. When Christ spoke against Judas in Matthew 26, it was
    because he foreknew what Judas would do, in that he would betray Jesus, and
    instead of seeking repentance, he would take his own life.

    Daryl
    (Php 2:6-11)

    Message: 66847
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John / 66727
    Date: 06/22/90  Time: 22:55:28

       "Gee, they took away my car. I guess I will have to go to the credit
    office and kill a bunch of people and then commit suicide. Gee, do you think
    they'll give me my car back THEN?"

    Daryl
    (Php 2:6-11)

    Message: 66848
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Cummings
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 00:43:46

    A dolphin can't reflect?
    Do you know that?
    Let's say that they can't. Wouldn't language be helpful in learning to
    "reflect".

    Message: 66849
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: the amphitheater
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 00:48:27

    Right.  I guess they all got what they deserved, then.  Imagine -- giving
    thirty-five million dollars to someone with a moniker like Zef Bufman!

    Message: 66850
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Rogey
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 00:50:33

    But I am participating, Roger.  I am participating by pointing out your
    errant ways.  There's a good lad; put the kettle on the stove.

    Message: 66851
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cummings
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 00:56:23

    How would you know what is or is not exclusively a human ability?  You say
    that you perceive a difference between mankind and all other creation?  I
    take it you've surveyed all of creation.  Can you read the mind of a
    dolphin, a whale, an ape, or even a dog?  Did you know that primates make
    tools, and display behavior which can neither be explained by instinct nor
    learned habits?  Have you started with a conclusion and worked your way back
    through its proof, and done a bloody poor job of it?

    Message: 66852
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cummings/"reflection
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 00:59:16

    On what basis have you concluded that dogs cannot make inferences?  HAve
    you discovered some hidden language we are all ignorant of, one which allows
    you to communicate with dogs?  Are you a telepath?  Or have you observed
    behavior and drawn inferences to fit your tailor made prejudices?

    Message: 66853
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 01:03:27

    RE: burning fags.  I prefer Black Russians.

    As for employees taking crap from their bosses...that wasn't what I had in
    mind when I said that humans are all too willing to wag their tales for
    their master.  I was refering to God.

    Message: 66854
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Florida Gunman
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 02:19:22

    Is everyone surprised by the seeming lack of media hype on this one?

    Reason:  The weapon used was not an evil assault rifle, but merely a
    semi-automatic rifle.  The distinguishing difference is the evil black
    stock, which this M1 carbine did not have.

    Michael "I'm the NRA, call 800-468-6666 to join" Kielsky

    Message: 66855
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Kielsky
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 03:03:58

    Yeah, had the Thought Police arrived on the scene in time they would have
    taken away the M1 and substituted it for a good ole AK-47.  But they were at
    a bar having a few beers and messed up the project.

    Message: 66856
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dear John
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 03:04:41

    In our discussion you indicate that the human animal is lord and master of
    all other animals.  I don't see how or why that would be.

    From what I've observed, other species seem to communicate just as well as
    humans to each other, have the same type of instincts when caring for and
    raising their offspring and make their pain and sadness obvious.

    Many other animals including the human hunt down and kill in order to tear
    chunks of flesh to ingest for nourishment.  In what way are we different?

    Humans, at least most of them still nurse on cows teats by proxy and I
    don't know of another species that hasn't been weaned at a fairly early
    age.

    Humans as well as some wolves and other residents of this planet all like
    to suck the fatty gristle from beef bones, all licking their chops in
    satisfaction.

    What makes the human animal so special?  Is it because we have indoor
    bathrooms or something?  By the way, these indoor bathrooms are the most
    dangerous rooms in our caves (houses).  Unless disinfected often, and they
    are not, are breeding grounds for many diseases.
    next

    Message: 66857
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John, final
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 03:05:48

    What other species of animal will drop its excrement in the same area over
    and over again, year after year?  None will other than perhaps those who
    are caged.  Most humans are economically caged, aren't we?

    What female animal will turn up its nose at the placenta and eat a lunch
    meat sandwich and drink a glass of milk instead?  The human.  And we all
    know that this delicacy, the placenta, was specifically made ready by none
    less than Mother Nature to provide the correct nourishment for mother and
    baby, don't we?

    And what female animal will give cows milk or milk from another animal to
    their young?  Only the human animal.  The others have more sense.

    Yes, I am speaking on behalf of cats, dogs, the African tit mouse, and all
    animals everywhere when I say that they are not only not inferior to the
    human animal in any way but actually show more common sense.

    What animal has invented tools to destroy all life?  (                )

    To be continued......
                                            -Rod

    Message: 66858
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff Beck/God
    Date: 06/23/90  Time: 03:09:53

    But I knew that.  I was just throwing in another reason why a person will
    let themselves be abused and manage to suck up to the abuser on a daily
    basis.  It's called a pay-check, I believe.

    Don't bite the hand that writes the check that pays the rent that buys the
    food that sends junior to college.  Don't miss a house or utility payment
    either.  I've seen both examples.

    Those who put up with IT for both reasons must be in seventh heaven.

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