### Apollo BBS Archive - June 20, 1990

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 66736
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John C. on Dingbat
    Date: 06/19/90  Time: 23:40:07

            He sure was a dingbat....  Too bad the people who hid under their
    desks were not themselves armed.  Waiting for the POLICE to protect them did
    not work...never does.   Had even ONE been armed and trained, s/he MAY have
    stopped that 'dingbat' in his tracks.  But no, the do-gooders will try to
    unarm more 'good-guys' thinking that will stop the bad guys.  Sigh!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 66737
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 00:36:06

    Until one day when one of the armed citizens stop one of these
    dingbats and *makes* the news. Of course, ice cubes will be forming
    on the frozen pillars of hell when that happens. News wants
    soap to create foaming at the mouth.
    One day.
    One day soon.

    Message: 66738
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: My Dinner with...
    Subject: A Dingbat
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 01:03:59

    A sullen, defeated expression washed ashenly across his paled complexion.
    It was the look of death from a shell of horror. A living being with
    no motive to live and every motive to die and a reason to take company
    with him. The AR-15 .223 Select Fire Military issue assault rifle remained
    motionless. Its lethal muzzle projected into the soft lower half of the
    mans torso. A frigid, trembling finger...pale white at the knuckles
    poised like the sting on a scorpion.
    Their eyes met. Like orbs of cold steel in a demolition they wrecked
    each other mentally. The tension like spring steel singing before the
    last ounce of pressure releases a fury of explosive motion. Again their
    eyes battled silently , one looking for a flicker of a soul and the
    other searching for death. No one moved in that office. An office frozen
    forever in a split second of time. Faces, meaningless features on walls
    as plain as oats, details forgotten. The rush of lethal silence gripping
    the area in a fist so tight that sound ceased to exist.
    A thin line of hair drifting on end from the wash of the overhead
    fan changed angle and fell in the eyes of the man with the gun.
    It was summer.

    Message: 66739
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: LOCHANSKY/SOC. MED.
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 01:27:13

         Yes, we concluded the discussion on socialized medicine.
    We decided against it.

    Message: 66740
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last?
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 05:21:54

            I didn't know that!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 66741
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: John C./Gary
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 05:54:20

     I think that from any Scriptural view, where the sanctity of life is basic,
    suicide would be frowned upon.
     As to papal infallibility, that, in my opinion, is one of the greatest
    fallacies of all time. ROmans 8:23 says ALL have sinned and come short of
    the glory of God. That includes elected officials of the church. That makes
    the pope an infallible sinner, eh? What's that? A contradiction of terms? I
    knew that!

    Message: 66742
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Clint
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 07:39:37

    I wasn't aware that they give spinal blocks to terminally ill patients? Is
    this a real option, or something you'd like to see?
    Personally, I feel they ought to give heroin to the people in the last
    stages - ones that have no hope! This has been very controversial in our
    country but it has been a success in others. 1. Heroin is against the law.
    2. They seem to be afraid of making an addict out of the ill. To me that is
    ridiculous because Morphene is addictive also.
    You made a statement I'd like you to further comment on -- "Humans are not
    animals and need to be given a chance, as small as it may seem??" A chance
    for what? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66743
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gary on Bible
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 07:43:47

    I do not know if it is in the Bible and being a former Catholic, I just may
    have gotten it from that - somewhere in my sub-concious mind. I assume that
    Christians think it's a sin. I might be wrong.
    Why it is against the law to take your own life?
    You are certainly right about the Catholic church - they think it's a mortal
    sin no matter what the circomstances and you will spend an eternity in hell
    for doing it! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66744
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Weapons again
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 08:05:59

    It's interesting that the gun owners are reacting to this. I guess we should
    just shrug our shoulders and tch-tch. Is there anything we can do about crap
    like this or are we always going to be held hostage by lunatics such as
    this. Ideas ?

    Message: 66745
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Answer R. Mann
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 09:26:26

    Well let me tell you what I did. first I bought myself a barebone IBM xt,
    thats with no keyboard or anything. Just the case, powersupply and mother
    board. The rest was rather simple, I put in a reconditioned 8 meg HD, 1 360
    k floppy, hercules card, and a used modem that I bought for $30 at free
    spirit computers. It was basiclly simple, except for the modem that is since
    I could not find any documentation on it, and I had to experiment with the
    right initialization string, but as you can see, it works now.The only real
    problem there was, a friend was helping me, he took out the BIOS, and put it
    back backwards, obviously the computer wasnt going to work, but We fixed
    it.The main problem that took so long, was configuring the system to my
    needs, like writing my autoexec.bat and such.I was at the begining totally
    new to PC's since I had owned a RS color computer. About a week of sleeples
    nights and a ton of books and reading, and I dare say I'm getting to be good
    at this. Its an interesting little project, and it is that much more fun to
    use the computer, since there is an obvious sense of arceivement every time
    you use it.Next to putting it together, through all the bargening and going
    to different sources for my components, I did though meet a lot of nice
    people, and start a few new interesting relationships with folks in the
    world of the PC.All I can really tell you is you propably would enjoy your
    computer, and understand it and its functions better if you put it together
    yourself. On thing is for shure, the experience I have gained through this
    in of tremense value.
    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66746
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:04:00

    Re:  "Were the early popes more infallible than the later ones? Especially
    the ones after 1850?"

    They're all fallible!  The early, no more less than the later.  They are
    only men with the weaknesses and strengths of man.

    Message: 66747
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:06:59

    Re:  "a bad case of AIDS"

    All cases are "bad"!

    :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:

    Message: 66748
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:08:46

    Re:  "Wouldn't it be cool if attempted suicide carried the death penalty?"

    Very good Rod!  I got a good laugh out of that one.

    Message: 66749
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 11:12:32

    Re:  "Why it is against the law to take your own life?"

    Is it against the law?  I don't think it is.  I think the general thought is
    that anyone who tries to take their own live is considered crazy for the
    time being and is treated accordingly.

    Message: 66750
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JL/XT build
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 12:51:41

    How much did you spend, if you don't mind my asking ?

    Message: 66751
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Gmotor Massacre
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 14:05:01

    Cliff, think about this: The employees most likely were not allowed to be
    armed due to company policy. Of course, the gunman wasn't an employee, so he
    wasn't bound by the rule.

    s

    Message: 66752
    Author: John Groseclose
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Suicide. . .
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 15:27:06

       While at my father's cousin's funeral yesterday, I overheard a Southern
    Baptist pastor telling a friend of the family about another pastor who had
    committed suicide.  The one speaking had had to deliver the eulogy for the
    one who had killed himself.  The deceased, after learning that he had a
    large tumor in his skull (inoperable) with an estimated six months to a year
    to live on chemotherapy.  The chemotherapy would have wiped his family's
    saving out, so he placed enough money to cover the funeral in his personal
    account, then wrote out his will.  After this, he took some anti-vomiting
    medication and overdosed on a combination of painkillers and blood-pressure
    medication.

       The (living) pastor's eulogy told the congregation that they must forgive
    him his suicide, even as God would, for he gave his own life to preserve
    what he was, and to keep his family "happy" and able to care for themselves.

       So, is suicide a sin?  Or do the circumstances dictate the morality of
    the situation?

                                    John Groseclose

    Message: 66753
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Massacre
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:16:27

      Too bad he didn't commit suicide before he got the idea of shooting all
    those people.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66754
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff L.
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:19:54

      Discussions don't get closed on Apollo, unless nobody wants to talk about
    them anymore. Since you were the main proponent of socialized medicine, you
    can resume anytime you wish. I am philisophically opposed to it, but the
    question is begging me to find out more about it.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66755
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Alan H.
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:22:01

      I love your explanation of the ban on flag burning as a thoughtcrime law.
    I agree completely.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66756
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob T.
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:25:28

      Thanks, we enjoyed it too. The whole event was fun, and the events
    following your departure may have been exaggerated to some extent.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66757
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: New Times
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 16:30:40

      If anyone is interested I will post my letter as it was submitted to them.
    I understand their need to shorten it, but they practically undid
    its whole intent.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66758
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Homemade XT
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 17:04:40

    Well let me see.....about $200 for the barebone
    XT(motherboard,powersupply,case,1 meg) $40 for a reconditioned Hard Disk,$25
    for a reconditioned 360k floppy, $10 for a 84 key keyboard, got the HD
    controller from a friend, floppy contoller about $10, monitor$65, hercules
    card $10, 1200 internal modem $30.I'd like to thank the good folks at
    Electronics Recovery for all their help in selling me the parts cheap and
    trowing in a few freebees. The barebone XT by the way was only 2 weeks old,
    I verified that with the manufacturer. I am seriously thinking about doing
    this (uptting together systems) and making some extra$$. If anybody thinks
    there is a market for that let me know, because I'd shure like to know if
    its worth my time.
    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66759
    Author: Carla Ackley
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Suicide
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 17:27:32

     IN reply to Bob Thornburg:

     Hari_Kari is the term my Japanese friend used. (She is from Japan), I guess
    that makes her a foreigner doesnt it?

     About suicide being illegal. I thought that it was a crime. Does anyone
    know of the ARS code for it?

    Message: 66760
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on Ideas...
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 18:40:46

            I wish I could think of some.  I did post about a weapons class for
    everyone at school age level, when learning is at its best.  However, there
    were no counter posts, so I assumed no one cared.  I mean, if it's a RIGHT
    to own and carry weapons, then I think it should be taught correctly.

            In an FBI release, it seems police only hit their target once in
    every four shots.  That is very poor shooting, and the FBI knows it.  Seems
    the Shooting schools run by local government / police are so bogged down in
    STUPID rules and LAWS, that teaching one how to shoot in combat, is NOT
    possible.  Private schools not plagued with this RED tape and unreal moral
    issues...turn out far better SHOOTERS!  This is from an FBI report.
    Another LAW on the books will not fix this problem.  Getting more citizens
    Qualified in weapons handling will correct this problem for the long haul.
    Now, I said 'handling' and not 'shooting'.  Learning a gun is NOT a toy is
    so very very important.  Our boys do not PLAY 'guns', instead they know the
    TRUTH about guns.

            Roger, I bet my boy 'Travis' can unload and make safe any weapon he
    might find...better then you.  Why I am willing to bet he can outshoot you
    with a Wheel gun, Semi-Auto and Ranch (assault) carbine as well.  Travis is
    13 years old.....

            Roger, (not poking at you sir)  Got any ideas on education? Or is it
    just BAN them from the law abiding public?   Thanks -clif-

    Message: 66761
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/suicide
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:29:04

            It is easy to imagine a situation in which the suicide of someone
    would be of benefit to, or agreeable to, the family, the society, or even
    the individual himself. But that is not what we're discussing. From a purely
    pragmatic point of view, the suicide of the guy who intends to kill me
    tomorrow is welcome to me. But pragmatism as a view of the world is simple
    selfishness. Since about the time of Aristotle, a moral code has been
    recognized which admits the sanctity of HUMAN life as separate from,
    distinct from, and more valuable than, animal or plant life. Therefore, the
    logical inconclusion is inescapable: suicide is wrong.   --John C.--

    Message: 66762
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/popes
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:36:51

            Unless my dictionary needs a recall, there is nos contradiction of
    terms re:infallible and sinner. Of course a sinner can be infallible.
    Infallibility simply indicates that statements of grave matter, when
    propounded "ex cathedra," and relating to spirituality, do not err. But the
    pope who propounds the statement might be a baby-killing car-stealing
    lie-telling liberal conservationist. The statement would still be
    infallible.  --John C.--

    Message: 66763
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger/weapons
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:39:46

            One solutions might be to arm and train citizens so that many many
    people would be carrying a weapon. I think the example of Switzerland, while
    maybe not an exact simile, is worth studying.     --John C.--

    Message: 66764
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mad Max/computer
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 19:42:53

    Hey, congratulations!!! You've done what I have long wanted to do, and never
    had the guts! Now, with your example, I think I'll try it, too.  Thanks
    again.   --John C.--

    Message: 66765
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Massacre
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 20:52:38

    I wonder how many folks bent on suicide decide to take out as many
    other folks with them. The hate and the hostility of such people must
    be enormous.

    Message: 66766
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Homemade XT
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 20:55:41

    Thanks for the lead on Electronic Recovery. I'd like to try a 386
    with VGA and a VGA monitor so I could display Ann Oudin's excellent
    GIF? pictures in all their colorful glory.

    Message: 66767
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: maniac drivel
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 20:59:14

    Actually, I was thinking more about how to prevent such occurrences in
    the first place. The idea of a "fortress" workplace in which the folks
    who work there arm themselves to blow away any potential maniac seems
    repugnant to me. I guess the best way to start would be to try and
    understand WHY an individual commits such a crime in the first place.
    Why out of the millions of law-abiding folks does one guy get a gun and
    blow away a bunch of people ?

    Message: 66768
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Crimes against Women
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 22:03:01

    I heard on CNN tonight that crimes against women have increased.  Rape,
    domestic violence, etc.  Today at CASA (the Center Against Sexual Assault)
    we were called by channel 12, 3 and KFYI to give comments and interviews on
    the incident on south mountain.  A woman was dragged away by two unarmed
    men, no, one man dragged her off to his truck while the other held back her
    boyfriend.  This happened in front of 3 dozen people and not ONE of them
    said or did anything to stop them.  She was taked to a remote part of the
    park and raped repeatedly.
    It's hard to say what one might do in that situation but I would like to
    think that I would have at least yelled at them and once one person said
    something that the other people would join in to help.
    Amelia, my supervisor, was interviewed and pointed out that this is not so
    uncommon.  There was a lady that was raped on the hood of her car in the
    parking lot of Park Central at 4pm.  I don't see how people could have
    missed that.  I guess everyone is too afraid to get involved anymore.  It's
    sad.  But something has got to change.

    Message: 66769
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa/change
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 22:43:57

    Well, we can start with our social structure.  Make it very easy for people
    to own what they live in, not just pay and pay and pay for practically all of
    their lives.

    Start communes for homeless people where they can farm and supply their
    needs.

    Shorten the work week so the lower middle class can have more than one day
    off per week.  This would open up more jobs to the unemployed.

    Have a workable medical system that was affordable.

    Get rid of all gasoline burning automobiles.

    Build houses environmentally so they will not need the big power draw for
    cooling and heating from dangerous power plants.

    Make lots of safe bikeways and buy an electric auto for city travel.

    At present this country is what we, ten years ago, accused Russia of being
    like.

    And smile more, it's catching just like AIDS.    -Rod

    Message: 66770
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John Colling/equal
    Date: 06/20/90  Time: 22:53:22

    If someone said many eons ago that humans were the only life forms that had
    feelings or souls does that make it true?

    Go outside this minute and give your doggie a big kick in the ribs and then
    come back in and tell me that he doesn't have feelings.

    Even ants have them.

    Humans have always thought they were the superior animal and that shows true
    ignorance on our part.

    Like I said in my previous post to you, life is really cheap and should be
    enjoyed while it exists.  Too bad it isn't.  People worry about their deaths
    so much that it has actually caused them.  Death can really be fun and in
    fact each of us will experience that great climax of life.

    Let us each do our earth a favor by refusing to take up needed space in
    death as we have in life.  I would like to see all cemeteries destroyed and
    made ready for beautiful parks.  The children could play and swim there and
    the parks could be made in memory for all who have passed before us if that
    will make you or anyone else happy.

    For me what has passed has passed..  We only have the future to look to and
    let the dead take care of the dead.       -Rod

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