### Apollo BBS Archive - March 21 - 25, 1991

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    Message: 73966
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 02:54:03

    You're welcome.  If you have just seen them, however, you're missing number
    five.  I accidentally deleted it trying to update a later message with a
    similar number.  Once it had been moved (U, not UIP) accidentally, I didn't
    see any point in leaving it with the new messages.

    Message: 73968
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: M.J./auld lang syne
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 03:16:57

    But remember: I bestride this puny time sphere like a colossus.

    Remember the Goog's GT?  I attended it "last Monday evening" as you would
    currently reckon it.  It was quaint, hearing the inimitable song stylings of
    "Duran Duran" once again.  I put a small scar on your forearm, as proof, a
    scar which you will find if you look, but cannot account for.

    Message: 73969
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/confusion
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 05:17:49

     Perhaps the confusion is on the part of PaulTagliabue & Co., but yours is
    somewhat understandable. The mail didn't get delivered on the 3rd Monday in
    Jan. because the Federal government has a King day on that day. Your garbage
    didn't get picked up because most of the cities in Az., including Phoenix
    and Tempe, the past site of the stupid bowl, have King days.
     The lame excuse for moving the game was that the STATE did not have a King
    day. That, of course, was a cover up for the fact that Sun Devil stadium can
    only seat some 70,000 people, while the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, the site they
    wanted all along, seats 100,000. The former choice of Tempe was to make Bill
    Bidwell look good. I doubt that the game was ever intended to be held here,
    and the King day coverup was the first good excuse that came along, so they
    jumped on it. Tagliabue said that he didn't want the NFL involved in Arizona
    politics. Then, I have to wonder why he opened his big fat mouth 2 days
    before election with the threat of moving the game if we didn't approve the
    holiday. Could it have been that all the polls showed an easy win for the
    holiday, and that would have taken away his ready-made alibi? Hmmmmmmmmm.

    Message: 73970
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Bill
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 05:27:21

     When you first proposed that we consider the proposition of Bill getting
    sysop powers, I felt that it didn't really mattter to me, since I feel that
    I rarely leave posts that could be considered offensive, and never leave any
    that are vulgar or obscene. Bill also appeared to be a very level-headed
    sort of guy who would use pretty good judgement before acting.
     After his last post to me, referring to a post I left Ann on smoking,
    however, I find that Bill is just as human as the rest of us, and just as
    prone to misunderstand or misinterpret a post as anyone else. Now I have to
    wonder how far he wold carry a possible misunderstanding were he to have the
    power to alter or zap a post with which he disagreed.
     While I understand your occasional sysop burnout, and sympathize fully with
    it, I don't really think that anyone other than the sysop should wield such
    power over other users. If you and Sandy wanted a vacation, you could assign
    temporary authority to Bill (or any other person you trust), and go.
     With all due respect to Bill, for whom I harbor absolutely NO ill will, I
    voted NO on the current vote for the reasons stated above. I would suggest
    that other $tatus users seriously consider their vote before casting one.

    Message: 73971
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill on pusher me
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 05:34:40

     OH! The SHAME of it all! I never thought of it that way!
    Gosh! I will do penance. I will walk into my next 5 gigs with my hat in my
    hand and my head hung low. Will that get me back in your good graces?
    (smile)
     Now to get serious for just a second. THere is no need for you or anyone
    else to "get me off Ann's back" as you  put it. Annie and I have gone around
    and around about her addiction for a long time, and she is perfectly capable
    of defending herself, even though her problem has no valid defense. So just
    let us play our little game. Perhaps I could even get lucky and hit her hot
    button enough to get her to see the light and quit her addiction for good. I
    did. About 16 years ago. Now I'm a flaming evangelist when it comes to that
    particular habit. Besides, I hate washing the blood out of my handkerchiefs
    for 2 or 3 days after exposure to a lot of cigarette smoke. 'Nuff said.

    Message: 73972
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: War!
    Subject: SHAME ON PAUL!
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 07:18:05

    > I will walk into my next 5 gigs with my hat in my hand and my
    > head hung low.

    Good!  There's no reason you shouldn't be just as ashamed of your job as the
    rest of us.

    Message: 73973
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Vote
    Subject: colors
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 08:00:23

    I think people who like blue the most have no appreciation for the qualities
    of the color red. Then, again, they could all be color-blind and be deluded
    into thinking that red is actually blue.

    Message: 73974
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on powers
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 08:45:11

    But he sure as heck can put a person in the Zone er? Ha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 73975
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill on Pauley
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 08:48:41

    Yeah, you are so right Bill. Paul is ruining these little kiddies with his
    clowning around routine. Something needs to be done quickly. Oh those poor
    little ones! (: -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 73976
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley on MLK day
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 08:58:37

    Yeah - I see what your getting at, but if the Federal Government and the
    city gov. have made MLK days - then what is the hooplah all about? We HAVE a
    MLK day, right? Wrong? What did we vote against anyway? See - I'm still
    confused. I read something like your post and it appears to be clear, but
    then again .....!! I'm not kidding either. I have never found anything that
    was so un-clear before. Do you suppose that's 'their' plan - to totally
    confuse us - and when it comes up for vote again, to have one of those
    ballots where a yes vote really means a no vote????? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 73977
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Bill
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 09:00:09

    I am all for Bill having those sysop powers and put down a 'yes' on the
    vote! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 73978
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on color vote
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 09:09:34

    The reason the color blue won both times is because it's a conservative
    color and this is a conservative state! It is also almost all Republican
    which are noted for their conservative notions.

    BTW - according to the vote - 63 people voted. Where in the heck are ALL
    these people?? Do we have 53 silent users or something???

                       -=*) ANN (*=-

    P.S. I did not vote for blue and I'm a Democrat!

    Message: 73979
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: MKL Day
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 09:19:53

      I'm perfectly happy with Arizona's Martin Luther King holiday as it
    stands, and I think it's what the rest of the country should do.

      We all live in a   ....,,,,________nnhn____   yellow subroutine

    Message: 73980
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann about Zone
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 10:07:34

            I *put* that person into the Zone on Bill's request.  I alone am
    master of the Zone.   Only being able to request that a user be placed in
    the Zone, sure dosen't help me when I wish a few days off.  Let's face it, I
    am afraid to leave Apollo alone... Afraid someone will do something really
    stupid like post credit card numbers.  This would more likely happen when
    word got out the SysOp was not at his keyboard.  Yes, I have Zapped such
    posts.
            And on the other hand, if I don't take a few days off now and then,
    I lose my cool, I get angry at the system that sometimes feels it's
    strangling me.  I get erratic in my judgment.

            Guys, I want a BREAK!  I am already enjoying the pressure removed by
    Bill in his attempt to keep the PUBlic board on the strait and narrow.
    As for Paul's worry, if it goes to Bill's head, his power could easily be
    removed.  Bill is to ONLY take care of out and out violations of the
    ules.  He is not to edit posts....just because he don't like them or the
    tone of them.  Bill is not going to edit out free speech, less he find
    himself deep in the Zone with NO powers.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 73981
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Don Hicks
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 10:39:14

    Actually I have, but not recently.  What does that have to do with anything?
    Have you confused me with someone else again?

    Message: 73982
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 10:52:01

    That was still a few years after JT lived with Cubbage.  If you really have
    such powers, tell us what Keith Frost said that pissed off Ms. Merlin.

    Message: 73983
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Vote
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 12:26:26

    I thought black and white were not colors...

    Message: 73984
    Author: Alpo Poet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 16:36:10

    But imagine going into a paint store and ordering a gallon of paint.  The
    clerk asks what color you want.  You say, "White."  He says, "Sorry, white
    and black aren't colors."

    All right then, if the word "color" can apply to red, blue, and yellow (and
    others), but can't apply to black or white, then what is the word that CAN
    apply to all five?

    I nominate "color", because it would be useful to do so.

    Message: 73985
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 18:09:05

      When he made out the question when he was sure he had
    translated it right he grew very quiet for a moment.  It was
    like sitting in a silent room waiting for someone very
    important someone for whom you have been waiting a long
    while and then suddenly hearing a knock on the door.  For
    just a minute you hesitate wondering who it might be and
    what does he want and why did he come.  For just a second
    you're scared because although you've waited for years you
    really never expected the knock.  Then you get up and go
    over and open the door just a little at first to prepare
    yourself for the shock of disappointment at discovering it
    isn't the person you've been wanting.  But when you find
    that the impossible has happened that the visitor you've
    been praying for has arrived you're so relieved and
    surprised you don't know exactly what to say or how to begin
    it.
      What did he want?
      It was as if someone who longed for the sea and a ship
    were suddenly given his ship and then asked where he wanted
    to go.  He hadn't ever really expected the ship so he had
    spent all his time wishing for it and no time figuring out
    what to do with it after he got it.  He was the same way.
    He had never really expected to break through it had been so
    long and he'd had such trouble trying to make them understand.

    Message: 73986
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 18:13:18

    The whole thing had been just an idea it had been something
    to hope for and work for and the more difficult it got the
    more important it became until in the end it was driving him
    almost crazy.  But up to an hour ago he had never imagined
    himself in the position of actually breaking through.  Now
    he had accomplished it.  The thing was done and they were
    asking him what he wanted.  And even though all that was
    left of his life seemed to depend on answering them he
    couldn't organize his thoughts enough to make sense to
    himself much less to anyone else.
    ...

    Message: 73987
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/colors
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 19:32:23

    But then again, perhaps their blue is your red:

    "Because these states of neuronal activity (as when we see green) can be
    triggered by a number of different light perturbations (like those which
    make it possible to see color shadows) we can correlate our naming of colors
    with states of neuronal activity but not with wavelengths.  What states of
    neuronal activity are triggered by the different perturbations is determined
    in each person by his or her individual structure and not by the features of
    the perturbing agent..."

    Message: 73988
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: M.J./trivial details
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 19:35:02

    What am I, file clerk of Eternity?  Keith did a lot of things which annoyed
    Mary.

    Message: 73989
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James Taranto
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 22:58:12

    I'm trying to track him down.  Anyone?

    Michael Kielsky

    Message: 73990
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 23:06:37

    Try New York.  Or maybe Jersey.  I'm pretty sure he's out of D.C.

    Message: 73991
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Apro ...
    Date: 03/21/91  Time: 23:23:24

    Isn't Trumbo dead *YET* ???   This must be the longest death speech in
    history.   Sheesh.

    Message: 73992
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Question?
    Subject: $Jeff/Color
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 00:18:30

      I had thought about each of us seeing colors differently, but why do the
    same combinations clash or 'go' for everybody if we aren't seeing the
    same colors? Are they all related by wavelength even in individual
    perceptions in such a way that the pretty pink you see and the horrible
    green you would call it if seen through my eyes still match all the same
    wavelength combinations?
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 73993
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Dean/color
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 02:24:10

    Good questions.  First, let me say that I have never read a book dealing
    with color vision in human beings, though I have read books which make
    tangential references to the subject in the context of broader philosophical
    issues.  For instance, the quote I gave was actually a quote of a quote.
    The book I quoted from is called "Inventing Reality: Physics as Language" by
    Bruce Gregory.  That paragraph is anomalous, and is quoted in Inventing
    Reality from another book called "The Tree of Knowledge: The Biological
    Roots of Human Understanding," by Humberto Maturana and Francisco Varela.
    I have read the former, but not the latter; I merely thought it an
    interesting and applicable aside.

    Let me also say that, in my understanding (and this may have changed in
    recent years) there are two competing theories of color vision in humans,
    each of which explains some things which its competitor cannot.

    Having clarified my lack of knowledge, I can speculate in an attempt to
    address your questions.  First, by personal observation, it does not appear
    to me at all clear that people DO agree about which colors clash and which
    compliment each other.  At a time in the past, when fashion was controlled
    by a few large companies, and we lacked the plethora of independent designs
    there was considerably more homogeneity in the clothes people wore.

    (CONT.)

    Message: 73994
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Dean (2/3)
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 02:41:18

    There was also, however, a great deal more homogeneity in the cultures
    themselves.  Perhaps as a consequence of these things, there was
    considerable homogeneity of color sense, *within a given generation*.
    However, we now have such a great number of patterns, styles, and colors
    available to us, and the twin forces of conformity and individualism tend
    more toward the latter than they did, say, during the Victorian era.  It is
    not surprising then, to see a more heterogeneous fashion sense.
    One important point, not to be overlooked, is the lack of homogeneity in
    color sense between various cultures in various places and times.  One would
    never know it, partly because the photographs are all in black and white,
    and partly because people tend to confuse Victorianism with Puritanism, a
    comparison which does not always hold up, but the color sense of the
    average, fashion conscious Victorian, is not the color sense of the average
    fashion conscious contemporary American (though they seem to be getting
    closer than farther apart).  Of course, France was the fashion capital of
    the European world at that time, so one can broaden the subject of analysis
    somewhat, in that Victorian fashions, as well as those of various other
    countries, were heavily influenced by Parisian fashion.  A fashion magazine,
    the "Monthly Belle Assemblee" of June 1847 describes a "public promenade
    dress of pea-green silk worn under a three-quarter-length pelisse-mantle of
    lavender and pink shot taffeta trimmed with [irreproachible?] Mechlin lace,
    and a blue taffeta redingote worn with a pink crape [sic] chapeau covered
    with embroidered tulle and trimmed with sprigs of roses."
    (CONT.)

    Message: 73995
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Dean/(3/3)
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 02:51:24

    (That quote is from a book on Victorian and Edwardian fashion, incidentally;
    I do not own the original magazine.)

    Of course, the Victorian era ran from 1837 to 1901, and as time wore on
    people of the era, for reasons which I know not, began to absolutely abhor
    color as something disreputable, and respectable men had to wear "deep black
    and spotless white."

    The point of all this is that, with the exception of true individualists,
    people's color sense seems to be far more closely related to the culture in
    which they live than any innate set of rules, and that it is social learning
    which is responsible -- which if true, does not preclude the possibility
    that people see different wavelengths differently.

    Message: 73996
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: War!
    Subject: Bill?Ashamed of YOU?
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 05:39:05

    >Good! There's no reason you shouldn't be just as ashamed of your job as the
    >rest of us.
     Gee, Bill. Why should I be ashamed of the rest of you?

    Message: 73997
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 05:40:29

    Poor little ones? Pity the poor parents! They must really be warped and
    deluded! They keep inviting me back!

    Message: 73998
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie/yes votes
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 05:42:27

     I think the public is beginning to wise up to those tactics. The powers
    that be here in Peoria tried that with photo-cop in this election, but they
    didn't fool 5 out of 7 of us. We voted YES! Get rid of that thing!
    Ain't we smart?

    Message: 73999
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff/Colors
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 07:47:26

    actually my FAVORITE color wasn't listed at all. It is orange.

    Message: 74000
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Clothes Colors
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 07:59:39

    > Of course, the Victorian era ... began to absolutely abhor
    > color as something disreputable, and respectable men had to
    > wear "deep black and spotless white."

    Maybe they all worked for IBM.

    Message: 74001
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Shameless Paul
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 08:00:03

    >> Good! There's no reason you shouldn't be just as ashamed of
    >> your job as the rest of us.

    > Gee, Bill. Why should I be ashamed of the rest of you?

    If it isn't obvious, you're simply too far gone to be concerned about, Paul.

    Message: 74002
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: colors
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 09:09:03

    Then, again, on some days GREEN is my favorite color. I can say with some
    certainty that I like the green/orange combination very much.

    Message: 74003
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 09:25:49

    No he didn't.  Keep trying.

    Message: 74004
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: color perception
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 09:36:12

    Women can distinguish colors on a Mac II screen a little better than men.

    Message: 74005
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Apollo
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 10:00:11

    As I said - I'm all for Bill easing your burden of sysop. Everyone needs a
    vacation!

    You made the statement that you are afraid to leave Apollo, afraid that
    someone would do something really stupid like post credit card numbers ...
    .. I say so what if they do? The world would not come to an end - Bill would
    see them and delete them - even if he didn't I'm sure one of us would sure
    point him there! Think about it - you really can't prevent people from
    seeing credit card numbers - by the time you do see them, it's too late
    because no doubt someone has seen them. See what I'm getting at?
    So take your vacation and enjoy. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74006
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley on photocop
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 10:10:23

    I say give three cheers to Peoria! I read that they turned it down and I was
    so happy. That device 'smacks' of Big Brother in my opinion.

    Not too long ago I went to Sun City - never give it a thought that they have
    those Photo-cops and my picture was no doubt taken. I am a good driver and
    have never had a ticket, but I felt guilty as heck when hubby reminded me
    that S.C. had those things - wondered if I was going to get a summons in the
    mail or something. A week went by, so I assumned I did not break the speed
    limits there.

    In Sun City they ought to give out citations to people that drive too slow
    and don't obey the speed limits - ditto Apache Junction. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74007
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul & Bill
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 10:13:52

    Your bantering is halarious! I am waiting to see which of you put's out the
    best, artistic, wise acre, come-back. So far, Bill has one up on Paul, but
    only because he posted last! *Heh *Heh *Heh -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74008
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann..
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 10:33:01

            But Ann, Bill needs the SYSOP power to delete ap a post not
    written by him.  Try to Zap someone else's post Ann...the System won't let
    you!  That is why we are having this VOTE..to see if we should give him the
    SysOP power to ap.

            According to the sheriff if a BBS gets credit card numbers or such
    and the Sysop does not have them removed within the day...the SysOp is libel
    and may be shut down.  This is what he told me several years ago when he
    came to see me about my board.  You said "So What"...  Are you trying to get
    me shut down?

            Fact and LAW:  System Operators (SysOps) ARE responsible for what
    they allow to remain on their board.

            I am sick of this whole damn mess... and you ain't helping one bit.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- barf.....

    Message: 74009
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/last
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 11:03:10

    What is the matter with you - I AGREE that Bill should take over and as far
    as the credit cards are concerned, he can handle that too. You can't stop
    people from doing such a thing either if you think about it - you can only
    remove them when you see them - same as Bill will.

    Speaking of zapping messages - why did you zap my message to you in the $ta
    sig when I was right in the middle of it. Is it now your policy to zap the
    messages that don't agree with you on the spot?? Did I disobey any rules in
    that post? If you forgot what it said, I can't put it back on because I have
    written it down so I won't forget what it says!!
    I want to tell you Cliff that over the years I thought you were one of the
    fairest people I know! I am now very puzzled at your actions. I always took
    it with a grain of salt when people would accuse you of zapping messages and
    I always believed you - now I'm not sure after you blantantly zapped mine
    before I was finished. What is going on anyway? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74010
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 11:40:06

    I did not ZAP any of your posts....  I am fed up with being SysOp...

            There are NO missing post numbers...  Had I apped a post as you
    said, there would be a missing number.  Besides, I could care less if you
    think I am fair or not...  I don't give a flying ---- anymore.

                            sysop-

    Message: 74011
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Bill
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 12:25:16

            Looks like you will be granted the power...and can play sysop for a
    while... and I can play user...  ha ha ha... you poor guy!

            Do you want to log in as SYSOP Bill or Billy SYSOP or keep it as is?

                                    clif-

    Message: 74012
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 13:04:35

    Wow! You sound 'out of it' Cliff. Maybe you do need a rest from sysoping.

    We are not communicating about Bill taking over is all. No big deal - I am
    for it if it's what you want. He can watch for credit card posters can't he?

    As far as you zapping one of my messages - I don't know what happened, but
    there wouldn't be a missing post because it was zapped before I saved it. I
    talked to Bill and he said he didn't do it. You say you didn't do it - so
    who did? Mr. Slone? I was almost through when all of a sudden the words just
    like this appeared on the screen ......
    "*Zap* Your dead!" and then there was a disconnection. I tried to get back
    on and couldn't for a few minutes and when I did about 45 minutes later, you
    had been the last one on the board. What am I suppose to think?
                                -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74013
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on watching
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 13:20:52

            Yes, Bill can watch...and can ZAP them too if you members ote him
    the power he needs.

            Yea, Tom Slone might be a good one to pin this on.  Ha ha ha ha
    If you would have LOOKED at the user log, you would have seen Paul Harris
    was the last one on. I followed you, Harris followed me, you followed him.
    Get it?

            Sorry you got Zapped off...that may have been my fault when I was
    setting the CTRL code for holding the system for myself...  I may have
    bumped the key with the monitor off and did not catch it.  The "ZAP,
    You're Dead" leads me to believe this.  I have done this before to other
    users as Jeff Beck may attest to.

            Don't feel bad... I have even hit the sequence and ZAPPED myself
    dead while I was entering posts...  CTRL A and CTRL X are close to the Z
    and sometimes I do bump it...and I have found it don't take much.  Yes, it
    even knocks the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp off the system... Grrrrrrr

    Message: 74014
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: More Colors
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 13:28:09

    Have you given any thought to why you like your particular color ? When I
    was young I liked blue more than other color. It was so cool and clean and
    the color of our kitchen table top (not to mention the sky) it was real
    cool. Now that I am older I have learned to appreciated the beauty of the
    warmer colors like red and orange and even lime green. They make you feel
    alive and vibrant, while blue is so cold and unfeeling.

    Message: 74015
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: more colors
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 13:29:20

    On the other hand, I remember a time when I was around five or six years old
    and we had a calendar in the kitchen. The week days were in green, the
    weekends in red and the holidays in orange. I loved those colors even then.

    Message: 74016
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on knocking ..
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 15:50:26

    .. off the system. Later I did think that it may have been Mr. Slones fault.
    It just isn't like you to do such a thing. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74017
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on colors
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 15:52:56

    I always liked royal purple. When I was younger, it was considered a old
    woman's color - I guess that ment that after a certain age, lets say 50ish,
    it was alright to wear it, but not before. Now that I am an old woman, I
    don't look good in it! Who said life was fair er? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74018
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: rod/cars
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 16:03:02

    Don't say that about my best friend.

    Message: 74019
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: color vote
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 16:06:17

    I'm a Republican and I voted for black, truly the most powerful and dramatic
    hue on the spectrum...

    Message: 74020
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 16:52:02

    Bill (or anyone else) doesn't need SYSOP powers to delete a non-$tatus
    user's message, all they have to do is log in as that "person" and delete it
    themselves.  Do you think your $tatus users are just dying for an
    opportunity to post credit card numbers as soon as you turn your back?
    If so, weren't there a couple SIGs that you intentionally locked yourself
    out of?  How were you going to check for credit card numbers in those SIGs?

    Despite what ever the MCSO Sysop intimidated you into believing, I doubt you
    would actually be held responsible if someone did something like that when
    you were on vacation.  If you look at the court records, I'm sure you'll
    find the only Sysops who've ever gotten into any trouble are the ones with a
    systematic pattern of allowing or encouraging such usage.

    Message: 74021
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 17:45:22

    I've just chatted with Cliff who pointed out that the ((Shields)) go up
    automatically in certain situation.  This would prevent a concerned regular
    user from logging in as a non-$tatus user to delete an illegal message.
    Also, Cliff's "vacations" from Apollo could go for a long time and wouldn't
    necessarily involve leaving the house where the BBS lives, so there might
    actually be some legal ramifications from leaving it completely unattended
    during these periods.

    However, I still think it's best to have as few SYSOPs at a time as
    possible, so I don't know what the solution is.  Perhaps limited powers for
    Bill and the right to appeal decisions to Cliff is the best compromise.
    It might be even better to also be able to appeal decisions made by Cliff to
    Bill so claims of selective ule enforcement could be resolved.

    Message: 74022
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sandi
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 17:48:12

    My sister says black is a fashion cop-out.  Black always matches most
    colors (including black), but it's much more challenging to know when red
    matches orange.

    Message: 74023
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Solutions
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 18:56:27

            I agree, too many SysOps can spoil a board.  I do not see that as a
    problem on Apollo however.  If it turns out you don't trust Bill, then if I
    wish to take a few days off, I suppose I could crank the ((SHIELD)) level up
    to 100% and just keep Non-Members off all together.  I really TRUST the
    $tatus users, so there is no problem there. But if I up the ((SHIELDS)), how
    does Apollo get new users?  How do we justify calling the PUBlic
    SIG...PUBLIC?

            As for the ote, it is too early too call it, but I think Bill
    will get the approval.  I had hoped the users would have been more
    supportive of Bill, as it would make me feel better that you were all happy
    about the idea.

            I also like the idea you guys could turn to Bill if you felt I was
    being unfair...  as I can be when I get fired up in a debate as I did with
    Ann 2 months ago.  I was emotionally blinded, and FAILED to see the problem
    till it was to late.  However, I must admit, it would be amusing to see if
    Bill could figure out how to put me into the PHAntom ZONE...without him
    getting deep Zoned himself.  I know all the in-out cmds and hidden passwords
    to UNDO any trick this system has to offer.  I guess all he could do is make
    me feel guilty if I did a wrong.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 74024
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 19:40:39

      Then he thought about it in another way.  Maybe it wasn't
    so much a question of what he wanted as what they could give
    him.  That was it.  And what could they give him?  He began
    to resent the question itself and the way they asked it and
    the ignorance that lay behind it.  Who did they think they
    were and what did they think he wanted that they could give
    him?  Did they think he would ask for an ice cream cone?
    Did they think he would ask for a good book and an open fire
    and a cat purring?  Did they think he would ask to go to a
    movie and after that to a soda parlor for a nice cool drink
    of lemonade?  Did they think he would ask for dancing
    lessons or a pair of binoculars or a course in piano lessons
    imagine how surprised your friends will be?
      Maybe they thought he wanted a new suit or a silk shirt.
    Maybe they expected him to complain that the bed was a
    little hard and please bring me a glass of water.  Maybe
    they thought he would ask for a change of diet.  The coffee
    you've been pouring into my tube lately needs a little more
    sugar it tastes bitter to my intestines so add a half a
    teaspoonfull of sugar and stir it well please.  The hash is
    too wet and it needs some seasoning.  I think I would like
    some fudge.  Next time you shove grub through that tube
    stick in a piece of fudge not sugary not too strong of
    chocolate but smooth and a little warm I've been waiting all

    Message: 74025
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 19:49:27

    these years and tapping all these months because I love
    fudge so much.
      They should know what he wanted the silly bastards and
    they should know they couldn't give it to him.  He wanted
    the things they took for granted the things nobody could
    ever give him.  He wanted eyes to see with.  Two eyes to see
    sunlight and moonlight and blue mountains and tall trees and
    little ants and houses that people live in and flowers
    opening in the morning and snow on the ground and streams
    running and trains coming and going and people walking and a
    puppy dog playing with an old shoe worrying it and growling
    at it and backing away from it and frowning and wiggling its
    bottom and taking the shoe very seriously.  He wanted a nose
    so that he could smell rain and burning wood and cooking
    food and the faint perfume that stays in the air after a
    girl has passed by.  He wanted a mouth so he could eat and
    talk and laugh and taste and kiss.  He wanted arms and legs
    so that he could work and walk and be like a man like a
    living thing.
      What did he want what was there for him to want what was
    there left that anybody could give him?

    Message: 74026
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: M.J.
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:04:14

    Yes he did.  Used to log on as Frank and sign himself "Merlin."  Drove her
    up the wall.

    Message: 74027
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:06:06

    Well, I support your idea.  How's the vote anyway?

    Message: 74028
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:08:21

    Accidents do occur.  Remember, within the last few weeks he even posted a
    public Apollogy (quite needlessly) to a user he accidentally zapped.

    Message: 74029
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: a Grimm tale (1/4)
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:13:57

    Science is one long chain of idiots, saving the asses of their forebears,
    who are also idiots.  Any one idiot can be replaced by another.  This is
    known as symmetry.  However, asses cannot be replaced by each other without
    affecting the outcome, because some asses are bigger than others; this is
    known as symmetry violation.  However, as it turns out, all asses are in
    fact identical, only they aren't, for reasons which haven't yet been
    discovered; this is known as spontaneous symmetry breaking.  Finally, we
    see that in fact the idiots are the asses, in somewhat the same sense as
    the medium is the message; this is known as grand-unification.

    We must begin our story at an arbitrary point in this chain of ass-saving;
    arbitrary, since the chain regresses infinitely.  There once was a fellow
    named Dirac.  I know, it's a funny name; but then, fairy tales often betray
    their absurdity thus.  Dirac has, of course, just saved an ass.  Never mind
    whose ass, or how pimply that ass was.  But -- perils!! -- in so doing, he
    has put his ass in mortal danger.  Same as it ever was, Amen.  You see, it
    now appears that electrons can have negative energy; in this context, a
    little like moving a rock toward you by trying to push it away from you.
    It won't do.  The normal solution would be to ignore the bad little things.
    But, due to a prior ass, this isn't possible, since there is nothing to
    keep the Jeckle electrons from drinking their potion and becoming Hyde
    electrons, which have been damned from the heaven of science by virtue of
    their Mephistophelean naughtiness:

    Message: 74030
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: 2/4
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:14:37

    THE DEVIL:  Let us giggle.

    DIRAC:  Ohhh...I feel faint; somebody call a policeman.

    But, shortly thereafter, somebody saves Dirac's ass.  But this tale
    requires a momentary regression.  Some time before this, a guy named
    Pauli was busy saving asses.  You see, Pauli ran a tenement for electrons.
    The impecunious electrons wanted to rent one room which they would all
    share, at considerable inconvenience to Pauli, since he could couldn't
    break even this way.  So after the first couple of electrons moved in,
    he hung a sign on the door saying "Mumps -- keep out!"  The little electrons
    were fooled, and they all rented rooms, saving Pauli's ass.

    Anyway, Dirac heard about this trick, and decided to do the same thing.
    So he put on a fire-marshall's hat and tried to sound convincingly official:
    "Listen here, you lot -- Hell's full booked; there's too many Damned as it
    is.  One violation and I'll close down this whole joint."  And the little
    Jeckle-electrons, much impressed, agreed that it wouldn't do to break the
    rules.

    But if you've been following our story, you'll know that, by the law of
    conservation of asses, saving one means putting another in peril.

    Message: 74031
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: 3/4
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:15:18

    Same as it ever was, Amen.  So it suddenly dawned on Dirac that if the
    Jeckle-electrons could become Hyde-electrons, maybe the reverse could be
    true!  And this would leave a vacancy in Hell, which one of the
    Jeckle-electrons would then attempt to fill!  Dirac hit his forehead with
    the ball of his hand, like they do in the "V-8" vegetable juice commercials.

    Once again, his ass was in mortal peril.  Dirac racked his brain.  A little
    light-bulb appeared above his head.  When the Hyde-electron turned into
    a Jeckle-electron, leaving an attractive vacancy in Hell, he would tell
    the prospective Jeckle-electron tenant that the apartment had been occupied
    by a squatter -- it's evil twin!  And he told Jeckle, "Don't go near that
    apartment; the squatter is your evil twin, and if he sees you, he'll kill
    you.  Remember that old Star Trek episode with Frank Gorshin?"

    So Dirac's ass was saved.  But not for long.  Because it was clear his
    diabolical calculations might fool a single electron, but couldn't hope to
    apply to that infinity of the damned, those monstrous Hydes.  Dirac sent
    out a call to his fellow idiots: Save my ass.  Soon, a German full of hot
    air named Heisenberg came lumbering along through the skies, like an obese
    superman.  Heisenberg managed to save Dirac's ass, but he wasn't a very good
    accountant, and it wasn't long before they both realized that something was
    very wrong: whenever they tried to figure out the rent money owed by each
    electron, they got "infinity" for an answer.  And of course, the electrons
    couldn't afford this.

    Message: 74032
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: 4/4 (mercifully)
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:16:06

    Well, Dirac more or less ignored this, the proper thing to do, of course.
    But his ass was far from saved.  Because it turns out that there were other
    accounting errors.  The accounting firm of Lamb & Retherford was called in.
    It turns out that Dirac was charging two floors of the building the same
    amount for utilities, when in fact their usage was not identical.  But if
    this were true, there was something dreadfully wrong with Dirac's metering
    system.  What to do.  Finally, Dirac decided: the problem is caused by
    ghosts.  The electrons are surrounded by fat ghosts, which use energy but
    can't be detected because they appear, steal the wattage, and disappear so
    fast that you can't see them.  So Dirac tried to calculate how many of the
    ghosts there were, so he could charge the electrons for sub-letting the
    apartment.  But it turns out there was an infinite number of them.  But the
    electrons, getting wise to his schemes, told him, "Look -- if you can FIND
    any ghosts living here, I'll pay rent; but as you can see, it's just skinny
    old me, not any fat ghosts."

    So, Dirac and his cronies the slumlords invented a new accounting scheme
    to deal with these pesky infinities.  They called it, "renormalization,"
    to make it sound respectable.  The accounting errors were caused by the
    ghosts, but the ghosts couldn't be billed, because nobody ever saw them.
    So they decided to find the correct number of tenants this way: take the
    infinite number of ghost tenants, add them to the number of electron tenants
    , and simply say dogmatically that they would call the result the observed
    number of tenants.  And here I choose to end the tale.

    Message: 74033
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Colors
    Date: 03/22/91  Time: 20:53:35

    I've always liked purple.  Just looks prettiest, I think.  I used to have
    this comforter that had purple flowers on it with lots of green leaves.
    Purple and green together are pretty nice.  I tend to like bright colors
    over any pale ones.  I like intensity, I guess.
    Orange and green, Roger?  Sounds like Ronald McDonald to me...Or the joker.

    Message: 74034
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: colors
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 04:05:39

    One of the reasons people like or dislike various colors is the amount of
    correlation between those colors and the things various individuals
    associate them with, and the meaning they give as a result to the colors,
    which are no longer arbitrary visual effects but symbols.

    For example, blue and pink.  People, though to less of a degree than in past
    decades, often attribute the quality of masculinity to blue and femininity
    to pink, at least where infant or toddler clothing is concerned.  Once
    the child is sufficiently advanced to comprehend this connection, as well as
    the expectations of society or his/her parents to behave in a manner
    befitting the sexual role, the child may come to accept or reject certain
    colors which have come to be associated with his or her identity.

    I wonder, if we had all been brought up in a culture where authority figures
    (or rock stars, depending on what symbolic meaning you attach to these
    figures) wore orange and green (instead of buffoons), while austere colors
    were associated with cretins or certain criminal classes (i.e. prostitutes),
    how individuals born into the culture might respond.

    I have always enjoyed the science fiction and fantasy of Jack Vance (with
    the exception of his "demon prince" and recent "Lyonesse" series') because,
    aside from possessing exceptional technical skills, he provides such
    hilarity and insight by juxtaposing various parochial and dogmatic cultures,
    religions, and peoples, each of whom views the other as bizarre and absurd.

    Message: 74035
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie/photocop
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 05:27:00

     SunCity does not have photo radar, Ann. Peoria and Paradise Valley were the
    ONLY two communities in the area that had the evil device, and, thank God
    and a small group of activists, we got rid of it. Maybe the residents of
    P.V. will take the hint and revolt now. Maybe.
     The worst danger in SunCity are the golf carts and the golf cart mentality,
    and that is a whole different subject.

    Message: 74036
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie again
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 05:29:32

     I think that I shall ignore Mr. Burkett from now on. After all, what can
    one do with a person who thinks I'm "too far gone" when I'm sitting right
    here at my keyboard? I think his perception is a bit cockeyed. It's probably
    due to that third eye, you know, the one in the middle of his forehead.

    Message: 74037
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Guilty SysOp
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 06:23:22

    > I guess all he could do is make me feel guilty if I did a
    > wrong.

    Sort of a long-distance Sandy, eh?  (I say this not because I know anything
    of Ms. Sandy's tactics, but because of my extensive experience with mothers
    and wives.  My own, of course.)

    Message: 74038
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Nick Danger
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 06:23:41

    > I think [Mr. Burkett's] perception is a bit cockeyed. It's
    > probably due to that third eye, you know, the one in the
    > middle of his forehead.

    Shhhh, Paul.  Not many others know that it's my picture on the back of the
    dollar Bill (I hate it when people neglect to capitalize "Bill" in reference
    to money.).  Actually it's a picture of me sitting on my roof watching the
    Fourth of July fireworks.

    Message: 74039
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Colors
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 08:35:14

    They do have an effect in daily life - years ago I decided to re-do my
    kitchen from top to bottom. At the time, Turquoise was the 'in' color so I
    thought that was the way to go. I bought turquoise curtains, dishes,
    canister set, throw rugs and a few nick nacks. It all looked very lovely and
    modern when I was done, however, I soon tired it it VERY quickly - I mean
    very - like in a weeks time! Within 5 months I had it back to orange tones
    again. The worse was eating off turquoise dishes. That color just didn't
    make the food palatable. I also noticed years later when we went to a
    friend's house for dinner they served it on black plates that it wasn't
    attractive either and I wasn't as Hungary as I thought. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74040
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley on photo
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 08:37:28

    It was probably Peoria I was thinking about - took that route to Sun city
    and just assumed it was there. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74041
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: michael/colors
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 11:15:41

    Fortunately, in a fashion sense, I never worry much about putting red and
    orange together as both are colors that look terrible on me...

    Message: 74043
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 19:25:35

      It came over him rushing and howling like a torrent of
    water from behind a dam that has broken.  He wanted to get
    out.  He could feel his heart speed up and his flesh tighten
    as he thought.  He wanted to get out.  He wanted to get out
    so that he could feel the taste of fresh air against his
    skin and imagine even though he couldn't smell that it came
    from the sea or the mountains or the cities or the
    farmlands.  He wanted to get out so that he could feel
    people around him.  It didn't matter that he couldn't see
    them or hear them or talk with them.  If he were out he
    would know that at least he was among them that he was not
    shut up in a room away from them.  It wasn't right that a
    man should be shut up in a room.  It wasn't right that he
    should be a prisoner forever.  A man needed to be among
    other men.  Every living thing needed to be among its own
    kind.  He was a man a part of mankind and he wanted to be
    taken out so that he could sense other men around him.
      Let me out he thought that's all I want.  I've been lying
    here for years and years in a room in a bed in a little
    covering of skin.  Now I want out.  I've got to get out.
    You can't keep a man here like this.  He's got to be doing
    something in order to be sure he's still alive.  I'm like a
    prisoner here and you've got no right to keep me because
    I've done no wrong.  One room one bed like in a jail like in

    Message: 74044
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 19:34:02

    an asylum like in a grave with six feet of earth above.  You
    don't realize how a man can stand only so much of this
    without going crazy.  I'm suffocating and I can't suffocate
    any longer I can't stand it.  If I had arms I could move I
    could push I could widen the walls I could throw back the
    covers I could get into a bigger place.  If I had a voice I
    could yell and holler for help I could talk to myself and be
    some company to myself.  If I had legs I could run I could
    get away I could come out into the open where there is air
    where there is room where I'm not in a hole and smothering.
    But I haven't got any of these things I can't do any of
    these things so you must help me.  You must help me quick
    because inside I'm going crazy I'm going insane I'm
    suffering like you'll never know.  Inside me I scream and
    howl and push and fight for room for air for escape from the
    smothering.  So let me out where I can feel air and sense
    people.  Please let me out so I can have rrom to breathe in.
    Let me out of here and take me back into the world.

    Message: 74045
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on purple
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 20:32:34

    Purple looks good on Elizabeth Taylor.

    Message: 74046
    Author: Alpo Poet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Black and white
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 21:56:04

    Gee, no one agreed with me about black and white being colors.  Or
    disagreed, either, for that matter.  You'd think "Jeff" would have come up
    with SOME kind of seven-part opinion on the matter.

    Message: 74047
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Alpo/last
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 22:02:54

    Actually, I'm a little surprised that the subject of favorite colors has
    stimulated so many posts.  As far as black and white being colors, I found
    your quip rather amusing, and didn't wish to spoil it by awkward and heavy
    handed attempts at elaboration.

    And must you habitually put my name in quotation marks?  Shall I refer to
    you as "Alpo" in the future?

    Message: 74048
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: quantum shenanigans
    Date: 03/23/91  Time: 22:07:23

    Has anyone here heard of the EPR thought experiment, Bell's theorem, or the
    Aspect experiment?  It's all *extremely* fascinating, but I'd like to hear
    some encouragement before I commit myself to a (hopefully) brief exposition.

    For those of you who have heard, it appears that John Bell lacks confidence
    in Aspect's experiment, and since the latter is based on the theorem of the
    former, it deserves notice.

    Incidentally, I Apollogize for my four part rambling incoherency, a Grimm
    tale; I was just blowing off steam.  Actually, it isn't quite as idiotic as
    it might seem to someone with no idea of the history of quantum theory --
    offensive, but not idiotic.

    Message: 74049
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill Danger
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 05:37:05

    >Actually it's a picture of me sitting on my roof watching the Fourth of
    >July fireworks.
     Whatsamatta? Too cheap to buy a ticket to the grandstand?(smile)

    Message: 74050
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie/photocop
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 05:40:27

     WEll, you'll still have to take it easy through Peoria until May 1. THere
    was a clause in the contract that called for a 30 day notice of
    cancellation, which seems sort of self-contradictory to me. If we are going
    to have to pay $50,000 to break the contract, why do we have to honor a
    clause in the contract we are breaking? Oh well, it's on the way out anyway.

    Message: 74052
    Author: Niels Bohr
    Category: In search of
    Subject: reality
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 06:12:50

    Q.  If a tree falls in the forest, and there is no one around, does the tree
    exist?

    A.  No.

    I thought that would get your attention.  Good evening all, I'm Niels Bohr,
    and I've regressed to an infantile state of object non-permanence.  Does
    this appeal to you?  Would you like to place yourself at the center of the
    universe?  Would you like to change the world simply by looking at it?
    Then try my new tobacco product, _Copenhagen_.  Just a pinch between the
    cheek and gum, and you'll have decades of cool tobacco pleasure.
    _Copenhagen_ contains powerful hypnotic substances, guaranteed to free your
    mind from the chafing restraints of rational thought.  So, try _Copenhagen_
    and come fly with me!

    Message: 74053
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul/Fireworks
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 07:00:58

    >> Actually it's a picture of me sitting on my roof watching the
    >> Fourth of July fireworks.

    > Whatsamatta? Too cheap to buy a ticket to the
    > grandstand?(smile)

    Yes.

    Message: 74054
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on LIz
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 08:39:24

    ANYTHING looks good on Elizabeth Taylor! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74055
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: User Names
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 09:14:55

            Users shall ONLY use their agreed upon log in name to log into
    Apollo.  Rule #3 states: Thou Shalt not falsify thy name.

            This means do not log in as anyone else but yourself.  Not for fun,
    not for jokes, not to post.   The LAW on BBSes do infact give the SysOp
    powers to set fair rules.  These sometimes are hard to enforce without
    proof.  However, sometimes it is obvious when a $tatus user is in as a
    non-member.  This is also unfair to the real non-members as it causes the
    ((SHIELDS)) to rise.  I don't want ANYONE logging in as some one else living
    or dead or made up, other then their accepted user name.

            There are a NUMBER of you users in violation.  Knock it off now!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- not fooling around guys.

    Message: 74056
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Liz
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 12:14:30

    I never saw what the big deal about her was.  She wasn't a great actress, I
    don't think she's that great looking (now especially but even when she was
    younger), and I don't like her personality either.

    Message: 74057
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Sandi
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 12:16:23

    Yeah, red looks pretty bad on me as well.  In high school, our school colors
    were orange and yellow (this only effected me since I was a pommie).
    Luckily, we would wear a lot of white dresses with orange aprons or
    cumberbunds, far away from my face and hair.

    Message: 74058
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hungary Ann
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 17:08:35

    Your spelling checker cracks me up.

    Message: 74059
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 17:14:57

    I can't figure out what women like so much about Mel Gibson.  He doesn't
    seem to have a very interesting personality or be particularly handsome.

    Message: 74060
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 17:56:02

      He was about to tap to them in a flood of dots and dashes
    when it came over him that there might be difficulties.
    After all he wasn't an ordinary guy to be released from an
    ordinary prison to lead an ordinary life.  He was a very
    unusual case.  All his life no matter where he was there
    would have to be people taking care of him.  That meant
    money and he didn't have any money and so he would be a
    burden to people.  The government or whoever it was taking
    care of him probably didn't have any money to throw around
    humoring a guy spending a fortune taking care of him just so
    he could feel air on the outside and the presence of people
    around him.  That might make sense to some people but you
    could never get the government to understand it.  The
    government would say he is nuts who ever heard of a guy
    without arms legs eyes ears nose mouth getting any fun out
    of being around people he can't see or hear or talk to?  the
    government would say the whole thing is a crazy idea and the
    hell with it he's better off where he is and besides it
    costs too much dough.
      And then he realized that he had it in his own power to
    make money plenty of it enough to pay his own expenses and
    the expenses of the people who took care of him too.
    Instead of being a burden and a bother to the government he
    could even make money for them.  People were always willing

    Message: 74061
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 18:06:44

    to pay to see a curiosity they were always interested in
    terrible sights and probably nowhere on the face of the
    earth was there any living thing quite so terrible as he
    was.  Once he saw an exhibition of a man who was turning to
    stone.  You could tap a coin against his arm and it sounded
    as if you were tapping it against marble the coin would ring
    so.  That was terrible enough but not nearly so terrible as
    he was.  Yet that man turning to stone was paying his own
    way and making enough money to pay somebody to take care of
    him to boot.  He could do the same thing.  If they would
    only let him out he would be able to take care of
    everything.
      He would be doing good too in a roundabout way.  He would
    be an educational exhibit.  People wouldn't learn about
    anatomy from him but they would learn all there was to know
    about war.  That would be a great thing to concentrate war
    in one stump of a body and to show it to people so they
    could see the difference between a war that's in newspaper
    headlines and liberty loan drives and a war that is fought
    out lonesomely in the mud somewhere a war between a man and
    a high explosive shell.  Suddenly he took fire with the idea
    he got so excited over it he forgot about his longing for
    air and people this new idea was so wonderful.  He would make
    an exhibit of himself to show all the little guys what would

    Message: 74062
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 18:10:18

    happen to them and while he was doing it he would be
    self-supporting and free.  He would do a favor to everybody
    including himself.  He would show himself to the little guys
    and to their mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters
    and wives and sweethearts and grandmothers and grandfathers
    and he would have a sign over himself and the sign would say
    here is war and he would concentrate the whole war into such
    a small piece of meat and bone and hair that they would
    never forget it as long as they lived.

    Message: 74063
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mel Gibson
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 19:16:12

    I don't know either.  The only guy that "lights my fire" is Val Kilmer.

    Message: 74064
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: $tatus users only
    Subject: User Names
    Date: 03/24/91  Time: 23:40:49

            I have had the system off line tonight giving thought about $tatus
    users who insist they must log in as other people.  This is in violation of
    my ules, and is in violation of the LAW as far as I am concerened.  It is
    not open to debate...  I do not want it done...PERIOD!
            If you insist on doing it and get caught, your $tatus will be
    removed.  If you are still insisting you wish to log in under other names,
    then at renewal time, don't bother....I will not accept renewals with out
    the promise you will only use your log in user name at ALL times.

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 74065
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Bulletins
    Subject: my untimely demise
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 02:53:30

    Well, as much as it saddens me (and it actually does) it is time for me to
    leave Apollo.  My reasons are essentially personal, and I hope my wishes
    will be respected when I ask that *no one* call enquiring after me.

    Have fun all!

    I like to imagine that at future GTs, users will play "Poppa Was A Rolling
    Stone" and think of me, endearingly.

    P.S.  Cliff: I hope you will retire "Jeff Beck" in order to avoid
    embarassing impersonations.

    Message: 74066
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Bill Burkett
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 05:22:55

    >>Whatsamatta? Too cheap to buy a ticket to the
    >>grandstand?(smile)

    >Yes

    Isn't confession good for the soul, Bill?

    Message: 74067
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff's "retirement"
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 05:26:31

    When pigs fly.

    Message: 74068
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul's Confession
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 07:12:47

    > Isn't confession good for the soul, Bill?

    No.

    Message: 74069
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Liz
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 07:48:00

    Including nothing.

    Message: 74070
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Melissa/Liz
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 07:48:50

    She was merely the most beautiful woman in the world.

    Message: 74071
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Melissa/Val
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 07:50:40

    Melissa, I am very disappointed in you.

    Message: 74072
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael on 'Hugrary'
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 08:54:56

    That wasn't my spelling checker's fault (Turbo Lightening) - it was my real
    spelling checker's fault - me! I know it's really spelled Hungaree, right?
                      -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74073
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael on Mel
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 08:55:52

    I'm not too nuts about Mel Gibson or Tom Cruise. Their OK I guess.
                        -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74074
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa on Val?
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 08:56:48

    Who is Val Kilmer? Am I missing something? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74075
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on Liz
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 08:59:11

    I could not agree more whole heartily that Liz was "merely the most
    beautiful woman in the world." and might just still be. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74076
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Pool 1 of 4
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 09:00:06

    The following posts is from an article that appeared in the paper this
    morning and I thought it so good and explicit it was worth putting on the
    board. Remember our controversy about the pool covers? This is the outcome
    of that law. This article is by Richard Lessner a deputy editor of the
    editorial pages. The head line reads ....

              DO-GOODERS RUN AMOK: 'POOL POLICE' STICK UP HOMEOWNERS

    "This column cost me $901.84.
         That's how much the city of Phoenix forced me to pay to have my house
    child-proofed.
         Please note that I have no children. Here's my story:
    My wife and I are having a pool built at our north Phoenix home. Last year
    the do-gooders on the Phoenix City Council decided that they had to do
    something about children drowning in backyard swimming pools.
         And so the do-gooders reacting to the hysteria whipped up by the
    media and fanned by the Fire Department, passed a law requiring anyone who
    puts in a pool to child-proof his house, whether he has children or not.
         You can do this in three ways: erect an inner fence around the pool
    in addition to the fence that you are required to have enclosing your
    property, equip the pool with a motorized safety cover or install
    automatic closers and locks on all doors and windows leading to the pool
    area.

    Message: 74077
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Pool 2 od 4
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 09:00:46

    Of Course, none of these things is cheap, but   do-gooders never worry
    about that. It's easy for them to "do the right thing" when they're
    spending someone else's money.
         My home has a 5 foot block wall surrounding the property as the law
    requires. It also has three glass sliding patio doors and six windows that
    open to the backyard area.
         Here's the catch: only one automatic closer on the market has been
    approved by the city for sliding doors, something that must delight the
    gadget's manufacturer no end.
         Now, the closer is a technological wonder, but the gizmo costs upward
    of $300 or more per door. As for the windows, each has to be fitted with a
    key lock that prevents it from being opened more than 4 inches. Total
    bill: $901.84.
         You want to throw open your windows and let in the fresh desert air?
    Tough luck. The city says you can't open the windows in your own home more
    than 4 inches.
         All of this  of course, is supposed to save the lives of small
    children because as we've been told ad nausueam, "It only takes a few
    seconds."
         But I don't have children. Nor does anyone in my immediate family, at
    least not small ones.

    Message: 74078
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: pool 3 of 4
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 09:01:29

    My borther has two kids, but Nicholas is 9  and Christine is 7, and both
    know how to swim. None of our close friends has small children. So who is
    it that my $901.84 worth of door closers and window locks are supposed to
    protect?
         Ah, but what if I was to sell my home to someone with kids? That's
    easy! If we need such a law - and we don't - then let the buyer with kids
    install these gewgaws. Just as you cannot close escrow on a sale without a
    termite inspection, so could a pool-safety inspection be required, as
    well.
         This pool-safety ordinance is another example of how we are losing
    our freedoms to the coercive utopians, how good intentions increase
    government's power over us.
         Clearly, public safety is not involved here. And yet the government
    has exercised it's police powers to force me to do something inside my
    house that I do not wish to do and to purchase something I do not want to
    buy.
         Before I am accused of being insensitive to the tragedy of childhood
    drownings, however take note that I am no more callous than say, the city
    of Glendale which has no such boneheaded law. Do parents and politicians
    in Glendale love their children less? I doubt it.
         I think families with children should take every reasonable
    precaution against accidental drowning, but this law was designed not to
    protect kids, but to relieve the pressure on the council to "so
    something".

    Message: 74079
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: pool4 of 4
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 09:02:22

    Last year fully half of the Valley children who drowned in backyard pools
    did so in homes equipped with inner fences or with automatic door closers.
    This would suggest that only an outright ban on pools would solve the
    problem.
         But last year toddlers drowned in bathtubs, toilets and buckets. In
    Kingman recently a 67 year old woman tumbled into a cardboard barrel and
    suffocated. A Phoenix woman fainted in the shower and drowned. The other
    day a jogger drowned while attempting to rescue his dog that had fallen
    into an SRP canal.
         Are we to fence canals and cap toilets, ban cardboard barrels or
    outlaw tubs and showers in favor of sponge baths?
         The issue here is not kids drowning. The issue is freedom.
    Government cannot protect us against every imaginable stroke of bad luck,
    ill fortune or plain stupidity, not without becoming despotic.
         I think parents with kids and a pool would be foolish not to equip
    their home with safety devices, but it is not the business of government
    to order people about in their own homes, or to coerce me into spending
    $901.84 where the public safety is not at risk."

    Message: 74080
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Addendum
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 09:03:15

    I really thought this article was excellent and to the point. I cannot
    believe that the city of Phoenix - the people and the politicians let a law
    of such caliber be passed in the first place. A law that says you can't
    open your windows more than 4 inches if you have a pool???!!!

    I think he hit it right on the head when he said ... "This pool-safety
    ordinance is another example of how we are losing our freedoms to the
    coercive utopians, how good intentions increase government's power over us.

                          -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74081
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 09:05:50

    See you in a few days fellow. Have a nice vacation. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 74082
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: pool drivel
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 13:49:33

    I think that the councils of the world that enact terrible laws to tax the
    patience and wallet of the citizens of the world are generally taking the
    easy way out. They respond to the squeaky wheel. Last year and before the
    squeaky wheel was the pool enclosure lobby. This year , who knows ?

    Message: 74083
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Jeff
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 14:42:25

            I expected this Ann.  Jeff is not joking this time. (as far as I
    know)  Even though I was expecting Jeff to not re-new his $tatus, I will
    miss him....  Too bad he apped his BIO, then I would have locked out
    anyone from using that name.  His real name still has lock out though.

            Thanks for the past support Jeff... Have a nice forever (tm) Rod W.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 74084
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 17:42:23

      He began to tap that he wanted out.  His mind ran way
    ahead of his tapping but he kept on tapping just the same.
    What did he want?  He'd tell them what he wanted the goddam
    fools.  He'd tell them he'd tap it out to them word by word
    he'd remember every bit of it and put it down in dots and
    dashes and then they would know.  As he tapped he thought
    faster.  He grew angrier and more excited and he tapped
    faster and faster trying to keep up with the words that were
    pounding on the inside of his mind the words he could
    finally use all the words he had thought of in all the years
    he had lain silent for he was talking now for the first time
    he had learned how and he was talking to someone outside.
      Let me out he tapped let me out of here let me out.  I
    won't give you any trouble.  I won't be any care.  I can
    earn my keep.  I can do a job like anybody else.  Take off
    my nightshirt and build a glass case for me and take me down
    to the places where people are having fun where they are on
    the lookout for freakish things.  Take me in my glass case
    to the beaches and the country fairs and the church bazaars
    and the circuses and the traveling carnivals.
      You could do a wonderful business with me I could pay you
    for the trouble.  You could give them a good spiel.  They've
    heard of the half-man half-woman.  They've heard of the
    bearded woman and the thin man and the midget.  They've seen

    Message: 74085
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Trumbo
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 17:49:59

    the human mermaids and the wild men from Borneo and the
    meat-eating girl from the Congo throw her a fish and watch
    her snap for it.  They've seen the man who writes with his
    toes and the man who walks on his hands and the Siamese
    twins and those little rows of unborn babies pickled in
    alcohol.
      But they've seen nothing like this.  This will be the
    goddamndest dime's worth a man ever had.  This will be a
    sensation in the show world and whoever sponsors my tour
    will be a new Barnum and have fine notices in all the
    newspapers because I am something you can really holler
    about.  I am something you can push with a money back
    guarantee.  I am the dead-man-who-is-alive.  I am the
    live-man-who-is-dead.  If they won't come into our tent with
    that build-up then I am something more.  I'm the man who
    made the world safe for democracy.  If they won't fall for
    that then for Christ sake they're no men.  Let them join the
    army because the army makes men.

    Message: 74086
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Roger on Liz
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 21:01:06

    (Oh, that DOES sound suggestive, doesn't it...)

    I was just watching five days' worth of posts rushing past on the screen,
    and I saw this line about what looks good on Liz, and I *had* to respond
    with a comment; then, twelve seconds later, Ann said *exactly* what I was
    going to say!

    Yes, I still think she's sexy, weight and all!

    Message: 74087
    Author: Robert Wright
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Smoking
    Date: 03/25/91  Time: 23:31:19

    They won't give it up Ann, because most of them are more bothered by the
    fact that you choose to be different from them than they are bothered by the
    smoke, as evidenced by the fact that most of them only began to notice it
    when it became a popular cause.  If it wasn't smoking they would find
    something else to try to force other people to do the same way they do.  But
    I will say this - I won't smoke in the homes or cars of non-smokers, and
    don't smoke in my own car if someone objects.  However if they want to try
    to tell me what I may and may not do in my own home, as they seem to be
    trying to do with you, then they damn well better stay out of my home.

    /es

    Public Bulletin Board command:EQ

    You chose Question?

    Subject:Colors

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I wonder how Nick voted?
     2:end

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    Subject:Letter to sis.

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Several days ago I wrote a letter to my sister in Texas.  The last time I
     2:saw her was in 1969 and we have communicated once since then and that was
     3:two years ago.
     4:
     5:I dropped several paragraphs such as, "Enclosed are a few pictures of me"
     6:and omitted language that some would say was downright vulgar.
     7:
     8:My mother is on her death bed and the message was meant partially for her
     9:benefit.  But then again we all are on our death beds, so to speak, so oh
    10:well as JT once said.
    11:
    12:I also owed a friend in Louisiana a letter for the past several months so I
    13:just changed greetings and sent him an original also.
    14:
    15:It is 4 and a half posts in length.
    16:                                Thanks.
    17:
    18:                                Rod
    19:emd
    20:end

    Edit command:D19

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    Subject:but before that

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I would like to add my 2 cents worth on the 'favorite color issue'.  I don't
     2:really have a favorite color because I like them all.  I guess if you catch
     3:me at a particular time I may perfer one color over the other but that would
     4:definitely change with my moods.  I choose white this time because it emits
     5:some heavy vibrations and I just happened to be in a 'white' mood.  Thanks.
     6:end

    Edit command:S

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    Subject:Letter (1 of 5)

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1: the
    22:embalming fluid that went with them.  Tough stuff for the earth to digest.
    2 lines left
    23:(next)
    1 line left
    24:end

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    Subject:letter (2 0f 5)

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:y stuff.  But there is
    1 line left
    24:always alcohol and that will wash most everything away.  Fortunately

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    Subject:Do Drugs Do Time 3(3)

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1: this is
    2 lines left
    23:only going to be a few postss so I won't get specific at this time.
    1 line left
    24:end

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    Subject:4 of 5

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     1:at warm
    22:memory of what once was a strange life form of ours, cowabunga.
    2 lines left
    23:end

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    Subject:last

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     1:Hippie, Drug Dealing Faggot.
    10:end

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    Public Bulletin Board command:UIP74093

    Edit command:L20

    20:ka-ka as well.  It is an uphill struggle man is involved in and until we
    21:figure out a few basic and simply ideals we will remain stuck in the mud as
    22:a race.  Tradition is just one of the things that hold us back but this is
    23:only going to be a few postss so I won't get specific at this time.

    Edit command:L1

     1:though, I hate the stuff, it makes me sick.
     2:
     3:I try to keep a positive attitude and sometimes manage to do so.  My big
     4:positiveness is:  It's only temporary.
     5:
     6:There is not one, repeat, not one thing that I want from this planet.  I
     7:don't want paper money, I don't want all the land, I could use all the sex
     8:but that may become rather tiring after the first week, maybe.
     9:
    10:I do care for my children as well as all other life forms.  I figure that
    11:all matter in the entire universe is related, that all atoms are equal and
    12:all are the same basic age.
    13:
    14:Life should be fun but unfortunately the human animal has not yet risen to
    15:the level of an intelligent species.  There are no universal laws that say
    16:man cannot be happy.  It is that man has not figured out how to achieve
    17:such a lofty goal.
    18:
    19:We are living in a ka-ka stage of evolution but all past ages have been
    20:ka-ka as well.  It is an uphill struggle man is involved in and until we
    21:figure out a few basic and simply ideals we will remain stuck in the mud as
    22:a race.  Tradition is just one of the things that hold us back but this is
    23:only going to be a few postss so I won't get specific at this time.

    Edit command:E23

    23:only going to be a few postss so I won't get specific at this time.
    Find text:postss
    Replace text:posts

    23:only going to be a few posts so I won't get specific at this time.
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    Edit command:S

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