### Apollo BBS Archive - June 14, 1989

    Mail from Dean Hathaway
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 23:38:10

       Congress found it necessary to create the IRS and give it an
    approval to violate the rights of American citizens because U.S. tax
    policy is basically immoral. Citizens can not be expected to cooperate
    with such a theft ring unless they are motivated by enough fear and
    comforted with enough lies to make compliance seem like the path of
    least resistance. So, it is the government's policy of stealing its
    citizen's earnings which mandates the oppressive nature of the IRS, and
    not some simple flaw in the organization itself.
        Obviously, taxation based on income (which was originally prohibited
    by the Constitution) must be eliminated in order to halt such abuse of
    the rights of Americans. There are forms of taxation which do not
    violate the intent of the Constitution, are not basically immoral, and
    would not require a Gestapo to administer.
       The idea that government should take more from some citizens than
    others based on their income has been practiced for so long that few
    people give it any serious thought, but it is a foul notion which can
    bring only degradation. It is a disincentive to work and investment
    because it treats them as something to be penalized. It absolutely
    destroys any right to privacy since the government must know what
    everyone has in order to steal from them properly. But, its greatest
    evil is yet worse. That evil is the underlying philosophy that the
    citizen's life is owned by the state like some kind of livestock and it is
    fitting for the state to decide what percentage of this life's work
    shall be harvested now and what percentage shall be left to keep the
    beast producing.
        To ask how the IRS would be replaced is like asking how a cancerous
    tumor would be replaced. It is not the IRS which must be replaced, but
    the malignant income-based tax system of which IRS abuse is only a
    symptom. Almost any other kind of tax system would be better,
    considering that this one was specifically designed to destroy free-
    market economies. The least intrusive system I know of so far would be
    the sales tax, as it could just be collected anonymously at the point of
    sale of any goods deemed taxable. The argument that this discriminates
    against the poor by causing them to pay a higher percentage of their
    income in taxes does not impress me very much.
        Current tax policy discourages the poor from legally earning enough
    to fall into the taxable income range, while paying a small but fair tax
    along with everyone else would encourage people to earn more and better
    their lives. If you are earning $12000 a year and paying $1200 of it in
    sales taxes (assuming a 10% rate, that all income is spent, and
    everything in the world is taxable) then you are getting $10800 a year
    for yourself. If you go out and earn another $1000 dollars and save it,
    you keep the whole thing. If you double your income and keep your
    expenses the same, you still only pay $1200 a year in sales tax and the
    rest is yours.
        The lid which keeps many people in poverty would be lifted, and they
    could cease being second class citizens and clients of the state's dead-
    end poverty industry. For those who hate the rich, they could take
    comfort in the fact that every Rolls Royce they saw on the street was
    now paying a large share of the national debt every time it changed
    hands.
        The fact that the current system of intimidation and theft
    provides revenue to run the government should not stop us from
    opposing it anymore than the contribution of slaves to the South's
    economy should have prevented opposition to slavery.
       See You Later
          Dean H.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:Thanks for the answer.  It makes sense.  I will print it out and make some
     2:copies.  Have you considered running for a political office?  Your position
     3:is supurb.

    Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 2316
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Review/Critique
    Subject: Last
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:50:10

            I take that to mean you were not the creative genius behind
    the poems you posted ..........

    Message: 2317
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Review/Critique
    Subject: Star Treck V
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 22:03:08

            Saw it today .......

    Expected more than what I saw, which lead to some disappointments.
    I think they should have stopped with Star Treck IV.

    Nice visuals, though.

    The actors are getting too old to move around.

    Very little action, if any.

    The Klingon (sp) ship did not seem to have any real purpose.

    Message: 2318
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 22:34:16

    Three out of five ain't bad.

    Message: 2319
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Question?
    Subject: TREK
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:37:38

         Is it true Satan makes a cameo in ST5?

    Message: 2320
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Peter/last
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:51:48

    Nah, I stayed home.

    Computer Hacker SIG Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 188
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Bit Bucket Talk
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 22:31:04

    Naw - who has time to read anymore.

    The outer COSmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 3179
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Up Yours
    Subject: James/last
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:53:15

            Are we talking about yours, now?

    Bulletin Board command:$C
    Message: 59225
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT/#59216
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 06:44:44

    And for you my good man, I will quote Stanley Meisler - "Your content in
    your smugness!" No other sentence discribes you so perfectly.
                           -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 59226
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/China
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 06:53:12

    Why should I go over there and protest? There's enough here to do that.
    BTW - changing the subject a bit - were you aware that during world war ll
     there was a boat load of 900 Jewish refugees that came over here to
    flee from Hitler's regime and we turned them away and most died in Nazi
    prison camps? This is just one incident too. We are far from pure and
    innocent!
    I still say all government's are alike - just the rules are different.
    "Absolute power corrupts absolutely!" If you do not think that statement
    applies to our government - just think about the IRS for one! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 59227
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/amazing
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:00:27

    Why should JT amaze the hell out of you re: Meisler? You should know by now
    that if someone disagrees with his philosphy, he labels them such as
    'liberal muck' for example!
    I printed that article. I thought the guy really said it like it is! Talk
    about amazement - I can never understand why America can't/won't learn from
    other countries? Hell, Glendale and Phoenix can't even learn from each
    other! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 59228
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Meisler/Ann
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 09:38:44

            Are you suggesting that we MUST agree with such an outlook as
    written by Meisler?  I too feel it was 'liberal muck'.  And even if it was
    true, one should be 'SAD'....  not full of 'GLEE' as Rod is when he states
    that people liked it so much they cut it out and framed it...  Now that is
    sick in the head!
            I will agree we do have some problems, but I at least am not
    joyfull about them.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 59229
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: PAUL/AMOK
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 11:06:38

        Yes, I agree - the fact I'm there is incidental.  Goddard & gang have
    gone stadium crazy!  The amphitheatre fiasco, the Suns arena (which will
    wipe out over 16 artists' studios, not to mention the cost!), now this new
    stadium for Bidwell....  How about the so-called ofice complex at the Thomas
    Mall location?  Geez.  And just think of the things they MAY be planning
    behind closed doors right now.  The mayor & council (at least some of them)
    seem to be woefully out of touch with the people of Phoenix.
         My question is this - (to Paul and anyone else) -  What is OUR next
    step?
         It's good that Phx. is growing, it just seems the city gov't is
    overcompensating.... not thinking things through before rushing ahead.

    Message: 59230
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Meisler
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 15:28:38

    There was a single new idea or novel observation in that article.  It is the
    boilerplate liberal whine about how bad America is.  If I hated this
    country, I hope I would have better arguments than this guy does.

    Message: 59231
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Oudin
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 15:34:20

    The funny thing is, by saying this country is no different from China, you
    are proving you are wrong.  If you were in China and leveled such criticism
    against your country, you would be arrested and perhaps shot.  Here, as
    obnoxious and obscene as your views are, they are tolerated.  You are
    correct that absolute power corrupts absolutely.  And that is what makes
    this country so great -- our government was deliberately set up not to have
    absolute power.

    Me, smug?  If I were smug, I would not be so outraged and offended to read
    your vile opinions.  I think you are smug -- you seem to take pleasure in
    making obnoxious and self-satisfied remarks about what a rotten country this
    is.  I would be curious to know what you have done about any of your list of
    complaints about America.  Talk is cheap.

    Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:Clifford

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:        I have no glee where the article in question is concerned.  I am,
     2:however, busy gathering signatures from registered voters in order to put
     3:the Libertarians on the 1990 ballot in Arizona.
     4:
     5:        I am finding out some interesting items of interest in my quest.
     6:Most people who I talk to, ones I have known for years, are not registered
     7:to vote due to apathy.  The most common answer I receive is. "They are all
     8:alike (politicians) and all corrupt.  I can'

    The SYSOP intervenes...
    :t just a sec...   you can't mean me... my name is not Clifford!
    :Oh!  then I will edit 0
    :thanks...you don't realize how I HATE that name...thanks again... I would
    :rather be called asshole or worse... but never Clifford.  bye.... have fun.
    :*

     8:alike (politicians) and all corrupt. Although I can't really agree with
     9:their feelings in total, I do see their point.  But if we the people can get
    10:this together on a grassroots level, we just may be able to regain our
    11:freedom from such people as the IRS and a few others.  -Rod
    12:end

    Edit command:0

    0 is an invalid command
    Enter [H] for a list of valid commands

    Edit command:E0

     0: Subject:Clifford
    Find text:Clifford
    Replace text:Cliff
    Message: 59232
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 18:36:21

            I have no glee where the article in question is concerned.  I am,
    however, busy gathering signatures from registered voters in order to put
    the Libertarians on the 1990 ballot in Arizona.

            I am finding out some interesting items of interest in my quest.
    Most people who I talk to, ones I have known for years, are not registered
    to vote due to apathy.  The most common answer I receive is. "They are all
    alike (politicians) and all corrupt. Although I can't really agree with
    their feelings in total, I do see their point.  But if we the people can get
    this together on a grassroots level, we just may be able to regain our
    freedom from such people as the IRS and a few others.  -Rod

    Message: 59233
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 18:47:29

            We both have different perspectives from one another due to the
    lifestyles we lead.  From my view I see a basically unhappy lot.  There are
    many poor I have contact with and I am usually asked on a daily basis to
    furnish keys for a repossessed automobile.  I have even had jobs on repoed
    trailer homes and stationary residences.  This type of thing alters my mind.
     I guess I could have used the word, "shades" instead of alters but I'll let
    both stand.
            You and I see a different America.  You are full of youthful zeal
    and I have already seen it many times in many different people, myself
    included.  You may or may not wake up.  It depends on a lot of things.  What
    may help is that you take very long walks at night in the city you reside
    in.  Of course the first may be your last.
            Perhaps after doing so, if you survive, then go to Paris and take a
    walk of an equal distance.  Let us here at home know the differences you
    encounter.  While you are in Europe take a side trip to Holland and spend a
    few weeks there.  I would like your opinion on that too.
            I didn't totally agree with the article from Meisler but enough of
    it to value his opinion as being in the position to judge better than I.
    Someone else must have saw value in it as well as it was printed in the
    Sunday's Perspective Page.  I just hope that you didn't totally 'can' what
    you read in that piece.  Try to keep an open mind.   -Rod

    Message: 59234
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Libs and others
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 20:55:07

            I will sign your petition Rod!   I am even thinking of becoming a
    registered Libertarian.
            As for the people that are not registerd to Vote because of apathy,
    that is a pure 'Cop-Out'.  All politicians are NOT corrupt and all are not
    alike.  There are many well meaning people out there that want to help their
    country and I do not think it has anything to do with party lines.  And even
    if they do not like politicians, there are many local issues to be voted on.
    If you ask me, they sound un-educated and maybe don't deserve the right to
    vote!  One thing for sure, they are LAZY!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 59235
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Drugs & prision
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:08:21

            Rod paints a rosy picture about the rest of the world when it comes
    to drugs....  Hmmmm  In 1972 I was in the Mediterranean Sea anchored of
    Istambul (sp) Turkey.  Apon leaving we found that a number of our shipmates
    were missing.  Seems the local authorities had caught a few American sailors
    with 'DRUGs', and promply threw them in some dirty prision without so much
    as a trial.  They were not even trying to sell the drugs, but mere
    possession was enough to get them 20 years.  Rod, tell me again how great it
    is everywhere else in this world, and how it stinks here!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 59236
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 2 new uploads
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 23:27:59

    Todd Reese sent in two files tonight.

            One is an interesting file on the top ten junk food "news" stories
    of 1988.  This is an ASCII file....  In the [L]ibrary ask for JUNKNEWS.ASC

            Another interesting file is on the top ten UNDER-REPORTED stories of
    1987......   Ask for the UNNEWS.ASC (another ASCII TEXT file)

    Neither one is listed in the [L]ibrary, but they are there for [D]ownload.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 59237
    Author: Margaret Shertzer
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Poets/Paul C.
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:14:13

    The students did not stand up for their friend in the figurative sense.
    They signed an affidavit which not only slandered their friend, but
    terminated his employment and ruined his career.  They never recanted, and
    the gesture at the end of the film was just that.  Driven by guilt (more
    correctly, by the conflict between pragmatism and self-image), their
    behavior was a token gesture which carried with it no real risk, and which
    occured long after it could accomplish anything.  Cheap, after the fact,
    ineffectual attempts at solidarity are worthless.

    No, that the motivations in question are common, does not make them any more
    sympathetic.  Does greed, lust for power, or sheepish toadying to the status
    quo become any more desireable simply because these are common traits?

    Message: 59238
    Author: Margaret Shertzer
    Category: Politics
    Subject: China
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:22:44

    As usual, our government is all bark (and pretty feeble barking, at that)
    and no bite.  A foreign power, antithetical to human rights and all we
    profess to admire, has screwed its own people and told the rest of the world
    to go fuck themselves.  Bush, like every other President in recent memory,
    stands there shaking his finger ineffectually, all the while insisting, in
    effect, that China is far too important to rile with any serious measures.
    1956, 1967, and now, 1989.  Sound and fury, signifying nothing.  If we
    actually CARED about the ideals we so emptily pay lip service to, the
    Berlin Wall would never have been built.

    Message: 59239
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:54:20

            See Dean about signing the petition.  He is the one who gave me some
    sheets to have filled out by registered voters.  Or I will send a sheet with
    Hawley and you can, when filled out, send it, as I'm going to do, to Dean.
    Thanks,   -Rod

    Message: 59240
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Drugs
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:57:53

            Turkey is noted for having some brutal laws concerning drugs as well
    as some equally brutal prisons.  I wouldn't want to be caught dead or alive
    in that country.  Now Holland, that's another story.  I would like to live
    in a country, and America could be that country, that respects the rights of
    its citizens.  We are not there, yet.  But we are working on it.  -Rod

    Message: 59241
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Margaret
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 00:59:42

            REMEMBER Mai Lai and Kent State!

    Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 420
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Shit-Chat
    Subject: Rod / last...
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 21:11:27

            Ha ha ha, it is funny how your mind is the first thing to go Rod.
    Poor boy, you have me and James Hawley mixed up!  It was James you were
    talking about....

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 421
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Correct, the mind
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 01:01:50

            Tonight my mind is hanging on by a thin sliver of spider web.  I am
    sooooo tired that I can barely see the monitor so I will have to leave the
    insults go for a day.  Must have something to do with the incredible heat.

    Bulletin Board command:EC

    Message: 59242
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: KFYI/Meisler
    Date: 06/15/89  Time: 01:09:28

            Stanley Meisler was the guest, by phone, on KFYI this afternoon.  I
    found this out from Petrisko and he said that he caught the last ten minutes
    of the show.  At the end of the alloted time, there were many people still
    waiting to get on and speak.  The host said that he would have to get
    Meisler to be on again within the next few weeks.
            Peter told me, basically, that from what he heard, people were very
    impressed with his article.
            Let me say this about that!  I believe that Mr. Meisler's article
    was intended to help wake people up.  I know that it opened my eyes a little
    wider because here was a man writing who had just spent five years in Europe
    and he was comparing that area with this area.  I respected his opinion and
    thought of him neither as a right or left winger but as a person who
    observed and wrote about what he saw.
            Now, after JT called him a liberal I get the picture that a
    conservative is a person who goes around saying things like, "America, love
    it or leave it", "NOTHING IS WRONG", "Praise the lord and pass the
    ammunition" and "Anyone who has a negative opinion of anything about this
    country is a commie fag."  Sorry but from what I hear expressed on this
    board I am afraid that I never want to be a conservative.

    Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 413
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Shit-Chat
    Subject: Last couple
    Date: 06/13/89  Time: 23:44:59

    Is this all leading into a flatulence contest or what?

    Message: 414
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Shit-Chat
    Subject: Peter
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:09:47

    He hasn't kissed my ass! Why am I the only one left out? Sob.
                           -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 415
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dear Cliffy
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:13:26

    * Actually, I'm only joking about all this stuff 'ole Mighty Sysop' who is
    so handsome and intelligent that to look upon your being, one must turn away
    or the holy light that surrounds you would blind! -=*) ANN (*=-

    * Trying to stay out of the dreaded Zone!

    Message: 416
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Shit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 07:29:23

    If I wanted to  to an asshole, I fart.
                  Love Ya,
                  Ralph

    Message: 417
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Shit-Chat
    Subject: Rod Msg 412
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 09:43:10

            If you kept your nose out of my butt, you might get a gasp of fresh
    air.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 418
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: ANN'S LAST
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 11:08:04

    Sometimes you're pathetic.

    Message: 419
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Ann/blinded by Cliff
    Date: 06/14/89  Time: 18:53:34

            Amen.  It ain't so much the light as the smell of feces from his not
    wiping himself real good.  Why the last time I saw him he had this long
    runner of toilet tissue running out the bottom of his pants leg, trailing
    for a few feet.  It was white paper with brown splotches on it.  It was all
    I could do to keep from throwing up.  But I did that one time, yes, I was at
    Cliff's house and we were having dinner, Italian Spaghetti, and Cliff had
    gone away for a moment and I saw this 'turd' falling from his trouser leg
    and I just heaved....oh....boy...was it awful.   Luckily though I managed to
    heave on his plate so it didn't get on the floor.  You know something,
    Cliff never noticed and he said, after eating, that it was the best damn
    spaghetti he ever had.   This is the HONEST, boyscout truth, so help me BOB.
    I swear on BOB's grave that every word of this is an Apollo fact.  -Rod

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