### Apollo BBS Archive - September 2, 1988

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    Message: 4108
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 02:33:31

    And it is not a choice they would make unless they feel being in the mall
    will more than cover their higher overhead.
    Many of the stores in Metrocenter couldn't even survive in a typical
    "strip" store location (like where Gemini was).

    Message: 4109
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Lloyd/malls
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 07:50:56

    Why should a mall owner collect anything but the rent from his tenants? He
    is a business man that built that mall for profit - he gets it from the
    rents, from the yearly inflation of the property value and from income tax
    deductions! He also is subject to loss just like any other investor. It's
    all a gamble just like buying an apartment building. If you want to make a
    profit - you keep the place in good condition - make it pleasent for the
    tenants to stay there and keep the place full. A good mall should charge
    higher rents than small ones - that stands to reason because of the high
    percentage of customers passing through. But to make a profit from someone's
    hard earned dollar is not right. I still can't see where it's any different
    than taking a cut of an apartment house tenant's salery. After all - it may
    be convienent for the tenant to get to work from said apartment or he may
    have his very own parking space etc. etc. By the way - when the mall owner
    sells the mall at a great profit - does he share that profit with the
    tenants? =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 4110
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 09:51:17

    Stop trying to interfere with agreements people are willing to make with
    each other.  Many smaller stores could not afford to start up in good
    locations without the percentage of sales arrangement.

    Message: 4111
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Ann/Last...
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 10:31:01

    Ann, you profess to be a Libertarian..No?

         Why shouldn't you, as a property owner ask what ever price or
    conditions you want for the use of your property.  Anyone who wants to use
    your property may do so, by following the conditions you set.

         For example:  Perhaps the Apollo users would like to rent "Thang" from
    you to enter (on wheels, of course) as a float in the next Glendale
    community parade.  I think its coming right up the first of October.

         As a condition of use, you could require that we post your first and
    last names in a prominent position on the "float" when we display it.

         It would be up to us, the "users/renters" to decide whether we wanted
    to allow you that fleeting bit of glory, or to perhaps get our unknown
    craftsman to build a duplicate to use in the parade.

         It's a free market, and you might not get rich, putting extra
    conditions on the rent/use of your property, but we would also have the
    choice of using "your" Thang, or going else where for our work of mobile
    art.  No?

    Message: 4112
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 13:56:16

    How much will you rent the Thang for?

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:Ann/tenent

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        Shhhh, don't give them pig capitalists any more ideas.  Taking a cut
     2:of the tenents salary is right around the corner.  You spilled the beans.
     3:        Home forclosures are UP again.  Does this tell you that the working
     4:class is being bled to death by those with the dough?
     5:       In order for many families to 'make it' in this society,not only
     6:must the wife work, leaving the children in a nursery, but the children must
     7:either have paper routes or collect aluminum cans.  Sad.
     8:        The rich get richer and the poor get F____d!
     9:end

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    Message: 4114
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 16:12:30

    I can see how someone with seasonal or otherwise unreliable employment might
    be interested in paying a percentage of his salary instead of a fixed
    monthly rent, but I doubt many landlords want tenants like that.  I'm
    charging Mychele and my sister less rent while they go to college than I
    would if they were working full time.

    Message: 4115
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rent
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 23:55:45

    What you're missing Ann, is that it is advantageous to the renter to be able
    to pay less rent when he is less able to pay rent, and more when he is more
    able.  Moreover, as Gary pointed out, no one is forcing people into these
    arrangements.  If they weren't beneficial to both parties, they wouldn't do
    them.  There's a lot of places out there looking for renters.

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EQ

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    Subject:Cliff

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        What is your opinion on the current topic on this SIG?  I'm
     2:interested to hear from a first party person.
     3:end

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    Message: 1926
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: women
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 01:33:14

    Most of the women I have met recently are superficial bitches. Proving that
    I am a person who will talk openly with a woman is impossible --- they never
    stop talking about themselves long enough. Oh well, at least they were
    pleasant to look at.

    Message: 1927
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Nick/last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 08:10:49

    Your right Nick about the woman being so self centered. So many I've seen
    are so involved in themselves that if 'Mr. Right' came along, they'd miss
    him! I've came to the conclusion that the feminist movement did a lot for
    woman - but they did a hell of a lot more damage. Rod is right - men and
    woman need to be friends. I have a daughter in Calif. that is probably like
    what you are talking about. She's a very beautiful girl and super
    intelligent - but - she'll never find a life long relationship or even a
    good brief one. Now that she is 32 years old - she's too pickey! She goes
    into a relationship looking for the things she doesn't like in a man. She
    doesn't expect it to last! She is so full of 'self' - it's hard to hold a
    conversation with her. I hardly expect her to pick up some guy's socks for
    the rest of her life or get up and fix him breakfast or wipe a kids snotty
    nose. All not so pleasent things - but non the less, every day life in a
    relationship. If a woman has to work - she should get help from the guy -
    but if she stays home, then she should do her part and not feel it's a
    worthless life. I know SO many woman that do stay home and still expect
    their men to come home and do chores. That's not fair. What happened to the
    pride wives had in keeping a good house and good food on the table?

    Wow - did I get off the subject or what? Sorry. I have an old fashioned idea
    of marriage/relationships! =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 1928
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: French
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 10:32:20

    Improve my French?
                            Moi?
                                      Non!

    Message: 1929
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Up Yours
    Subject: Ann/men
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 12:53:26

            Your quote on women not interested in men's bodies .....

    Speak for yourself!

            I would not mind having your pool cleaner as a household
    decoration. I would be able to appreciate the beauty of the male
    anatomy while I goes about my life long relationship with my male
    partner ..... you know, combining 'art' with 'reality'.

    Message: 1930
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 13:58:03

    Cliff, if Sandy wants you to put a pool in the back yard I would be rather
    suspicious.

    The outer COSmos Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:Sandy/pool cleaner

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     1:        I have a pool cleaner you can have but it needs a new brush.
     2:end

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    The message is 1931

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    Message: 53994
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last few
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 02:19:48

    A tribunal of 12?  Isn't that how many are in the Politburo?  You communist.
    I bet you even have books by Marx in your house.

    Message: 53995
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 02:30:47

    Quit being silly.  Dukakis went to Harvard and Bush went to Yale; how can
    you say they represent the ruling class?

    Message: 53996
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod - your posts
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 07:29:57

    Liked everyone of them! They were the truth - but people won't see that
    Roddy! They'll condemn you for cutting your country down - do nothing and
    vote again and again for the same jerks! I think we need a dictator! A nice
    one - not like Amin. That way - only he fills his coffer's at the people's
    expense. Now - the money is passes around to several hundred worthless
    politician's for doing nothing usually and never keeping their campain
    promices. There are a few good ones out there - but they are poorer than the
    rest. I think our system is great - it's the candidates that stink! Leave it
    to mankind to take a good thing and twist it around for profits.
    Your right. We havn't grown up yet! =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 53997
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: a nice dictator
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 09:44:01

    All these stupid alternatives people propose emphasize how well the
    current electoral process DOES work.

    Message: 53998
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod....
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 14:37:40

    I agree in principle with your contention that our political system
    isn't working well, but I do take exception to your statement that
    it's "stupid."  It may not work well, but it's far from "stupid."

    The American system of representative government starts at the grass
    roots level and works its way up to the executive branch.  It is as
    responsive to the needs of the average citizen as that citizen wants
    it to be.  The men who designed it were intelligent, free thinking,
    liberal people, who considered all the existing governments of the
    era, and tried to design a compromise system which would allow the
    most people a right to participate in government.

    Over the years, society (that's us) has changed its attitude of what
    we want and don't want from government.  To the framers of the consti-
    tution, it was inconceivable that a man would not want to work, or
    that mankind did not have a place in the existing order of the cosmos.
    It never occurred to them that political government should concern
    itself with enfranchising slaves, the indigent, or the opposite sex.

    We all agree that it's not perfect, but it is an attempt.  In fact I
    believe the founders attempted to say that in the constitution when
    they said "in order to form a more perfect form of government."  A
    grammarian would tell you that you can't modify the word "perfect."
    It was an attempt to improve what was then a fairly workable system,
    except that it had some abuses that they were trying to eliminate.

    Most of the problems we have today are as a result of our duly elected
    legislators, elected by a majority of the people who can be bothered
    to go to the polls, attempting to modify the existing framework to
    benefit some special interest group at the expense of the majority.

    I'm amused at anyone attempting to set up a council of "12 ruling
    elders" (my quotes).  In Latin America, these oligarchies are called
    "Juntas" and are absolutely hell to get rid of, once established.  In
    Salt Lake City, it's a self perpetuating group of geriatric patients
    who determine what's good for the masses.  The only forms of govern-
    ment that appear to work without friction are those where the populat-
    ion is a homogeneous ethnic and social group.  Tribal societies,
    Japan, etc.

    In any political entity with groups of people who differ (i.e., the
    original inhabitants versus the settlers, or the descendants of the
    pilgrims versus the Irish, etc, etc, etc,) we find have differences of
    opinion as to what is the right way to administer the division of
    resources.  In America today, it's the haves vs. the have-nots.  If
    every person in the US were polled today on whether or not to cut
    military spending, or to distribute everything equally, or whatever
    your current goal is, the vote would be to maintain the status quo.

    We all want a more equitable distribution of the country's, so long as
    George Orwell's dictum is followed.  (We're all equal, but some of us
    are more equal than others!)  Popular election of legislators and
    executive branch won't solve the problem, it will only lead to diff-
    erent problems, as minorities elect special interest legislators who
    will redistribute our resources according to THEIR wants.  We NEED
    iconoclasts and gadflies like Rod and JT to tell us when we're get-
    ting off the middle road, but we'll never veer so far right or so far
    left that we can satisfy all their pet peeves, so long as everyone is
    entitled to vote.  In the USSR only those who will vote for what the
    ruling oligarchy wants are ALLOWED to vote!

    Right now maybe the big business sector has too firm a grip on the
    economy, but it's only in reaction to the leftist policies that were
    instituted in the 30's to redress inequities that arose during the
    depression.  The pendulum will swing back, and our vocal splinter
    groups will nudge the public's consciousness back to a middle of the
    road policy, but we'll never completely satisfy either political
    extreme, because there aren't enough of us who will stand for either.
    We're basically middle of the roaders.  But "stupid?"  No.
                                                                 Gary

    Message: 54002
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Gary, etc.
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 15:12:40

            Good message Gary, I'll go over it again.
            A group of popular people (12) elected for a four year term would
    solve the stagnation problem.  Yes, some of them may be re-elected, others
    not.  What I mean by popular people are those who are known to the people of
    this nation, people who have made contributions to society.  In fact, anyone
    seeking this or any office would do good to instigate ideas or programs that
    benefit the nation.  I don't know about Bush but from what I hear, Dukakis
    would not even be in the running.  Has either used their power or wealth for
    the benefit of the world or have they raised taxes and spent hugh sums for
    prisons or war?  I don't know.
            I never heard of Dukakis before a few months ago.  Different
    publications are full of pro-Democrat or pro-Republican writers.  It is hard
    from my (non) vantage point to determine who is telling the truth in these
    matters.  The printed word is very powerful and many politicians have gained
    votes simply by falsehood.
            It seems that we have a group of mud-slingers, along with
    their hatchet-men, vieing for office.  This is sad.  Is this what you
    people want, grown men who profess to be intelligent, bad mouthing, or
    causing same, to be the leaders of this country?  I don't want anything
    to do with such people.
            Thanks for the comments.
                                    Rod

    Message: 54003
    Author: $ Mike Darus
    Category: Hard/Software
    Subject: DRAWING PROGRAM
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 16:31:09

    Is there a public domain drawing program that is like McDraw and will print
    successfully?  My ideal is a clip art option where the program might have a
    drawing of a house that can be enlarged, shrunk and changed.  It would
    really be great if you could even be drawing
    in three dimensions so that the perspective can be changed automaticly.  Am
    I dreaming?  I tried the library but I couldn't find anything.

    Message: 54004
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 17:19:47

    I assume you looking for a Macintosh program.  Burkhart might know.  But
    you'll probably just have to spend the money and buy a good program.

    Message: 54005
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Gary Jones
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 17:46:11

    Hi,
     Not everyone believes that distribution of resources is a legitimate
    function of government.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 54006
    Author: $ Cliff Kolostow
    Category: For sale
    Subject: last few items
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 18:38:20

            I have a Shrink Wrap macine with heat gun.. $150.00

            One Sales Counter (cost about $1000.00 new)... $100.00

            Two phone system that will handle 5 lines.... $100.00 (ITT)

            Office Desk with steel draws..... $35.00

            Computer desk on casters..... $25.00

            Student desk (fixer-uper)..... $25.00

    I will have these Items till next Tuesday morn where they will be picked up
    by a clearing house (I think thats what it is called)

    Whoops, almost forgot... One almost new Micro Wave Oven $50.00

                    And NO TAXes on this stuff gang!

    P.S.  The Phone system was a little over $700.00 new...

    Cliff, Happy and UN-Employed!

    Message: 54008
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Darus
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 23:52:14

    I don't think there's anything in the public domain that powerful.

    Bulletin Board command:JN

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    Message: 179
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Christian Rod!
    Subject: Love...Love....
    Date: 09/01/88  Time: 18:42:53

            I am a BORN Again Christian....
    I have seen the light of the Lord!
    Bless you children, GOD loves us all, even me!

                    Christian Rod
    * - *  See You Around The Universe * - *       Rod

    Message: 180
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Daryl DickHead
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 02:20:51

    (Sorry, Daryl, I just like your category.)

    Sure, wanna buy some beachfront property in Yuma?

    Message: 181
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Old Fart Ralph B.
    Subject: Ralph
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 08:37:16

    Ha - I see you made it to this fabulas sig. Ralphy. Say something so we know
    you read these wonderful, informative message. Now you'll really know what
    the people are like. Don't hold your breath waiting for JT to post a message
    here - he thinks he is in here by mistake or something =*--The New Way Below
    Normal Preacher--*=
    P.S. Have you been saved lately brother? If not, perhaps I can help. I just
    saved Rod Williams and that WAS SOMETHING! He even called and wanted me to
    tear up his Athiest card that he had given me. He also wanted to borrow my
    husband's carpet laying knee pads because he expects to be on his knees a
    lot! He burnt his "Thank God I'm an athiest" t-shirt too!

    Message: 182
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Annie the ASSp
    Subject: Dandy Sandy
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 08:38:29

    Yes, I think your right about a new sig. - the (L)iars sig!! I would have to
    join! =*--Annie the ASSp--*=

    Message: 183
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Mighty SYSOPs
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 13:00:10

            Are you telling me that you lie therefore you should be put into a
    iars sig?
            How will I know if you are telling me the truth about your lying?

    WAY Below Normal Bulletin Board command:EH

    You chose Hawley Crock Smith

    Subject:SAVED/ANN

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        Ann, I have three Atheists T-shirts and I love to wear them.  I'm
     2:just a show off.
     3:        Someone has been playing with my NAME and entered that SICK message.
     4:Are we allowed to say FUCK on this SIG ?  Because that is what comes to my
     5:mind when I see what youse have done.
     6:        NOTE:  I am not a christian.  I think they are sickies....but I feel
     7:sorry for them because they went insane or were brainwashed or both.
     8:        If there was a person who created this world and everything in it, I
     9:would have to say that person was a sicko of the first degree.
    10:        BLAH!
    11:                                Rod the Atheist and damn happy about it.
    12:end

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    Message: 185
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Daryl DickHead
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 17:21:33

    It must have been Cliff and Sandy.  You can get even by calling them
    athiests, or even better, agnostics.

    WAY Below Normal Bulletin Board command:PEH

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    Subject:Okay

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        Cliff and Sandy, the both of you are agnostics.
     2:
     3:        Is that what you meant, Hawley?
     4:* - *  See You Around The Universe * - *       Rod
     5:end

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    Message: 1554
    Author: $ Todd Reese
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Nude colonies
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 00:17:03

    Isn't there supposed to be a nudist colony out north of New River on Table
    Mesa road?

    Message: 1555
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 01:34:55

    It's called "Shangri-La." They advertise in the New Times all the time. A
    former helicopter pilot for KTSP used to buzz the place frequently. That's
    one of the reasons why he is history.

    Message: 1556
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 02:17:22

    Is that why Jerry Foster 'retired' from channel 12?  (I think he USED to
    work at channel 10 (KTSP), but moved to 12 (KPNX).)

    And I've almost been to Shangri-La.  A friend of mine lives out there, and I
    took a left when I should have taken a right, and I ended up there.  It was
    night, so I didn't see anything interesting.  (I did, however run over some
    kind of snake.)  He has a telescope and says he has looked a couple of
    times, but said it made him sick.  Who knows.  I think that some people even
    reside there all the time.

    Message: 1557
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 09/02/88  Time: 03:18:21

    No, it wasn't Jerry.

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