### Apollo BBS Archive - July 19, 1990

    Mail from Jeff Beck
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 01:58:11

    I hope you didn't zap them.  I don't think people should have any difficulty
    comprehending them; they were extrordinarily lucid.  I even saved them to
    disk.  Sounds like you've been reading Twain lately and have absorbed a bit
    of his essence.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Thanks but the last time I read Twain was nearly ten years ago.  Could it be
     2:'plant' essence?
     3:
     4:Well, Jasmine finally named the baby....Katrina Starr.  Thanks.

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 67651
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 07/18/90  Time: 23:50:11

    Funny. I didn't ever mention requiring punishment in any of
    my posts...I don't think you understand my point.
    What I'm trying to get you to see is the contrast between this
    incident and the GMAC incident.
    I sit amused watching people make complete hypocrites out of
    themselves. I think I must have scored a real bullseye 'cuz
    no one wants to adress it. I read their reactions to the GMAC
    killing spree and how they're oh-so against violence and
    How can something like this be stopped questions.....
    Only to see them throw the same fit in a situation that (Smitty's)
    isn't all that disimiliar. Only this time it wasn't 7 employees
    that got plugged full of holes....it was some idiot going around
    .................who got his head removed from his spine.
    I said NOT to pass judgement on who was right and who was wrong....
    Since none of us were there, all we have is sketchy (at best)
    details from a (very often) lopsided and misinformed news media.

    All I asked was to think for a moment what *could* have happened.
    Maybe the employees at GMAC *HAD* the opportunity to nab this idiot
    before it all got started...only to have company policy (like CIRCLE
    K) preventing them from taking action except to dial 911....in which
    case you;re sentenced to either die or lose your job or both.
    THINK RODDY. THINK.
    s

    Message: 67652
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dog & Beck
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 00:58:36

      No, "phagophobia" wouldn't do, either.  That would mean "fear of eating",
    and would be even more confusing than the "fear of sameness" that is common
    now.

            ======  Pascal  =(O,O)=  Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ======

    Message: 67653
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Morals
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 02:02:32

    Genuine morality has nothing to do with religion, God, or business-type
    ethical relationships of the kind that Alan described in 67624.  Anyone who
    claims that it does reveals their true nature.
    Let me amend that: anyone who claims that it is not independent of those
    things reveals their true nature.

    Message: 67654
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/"sharing"
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 02:05:08

    B.S.  That's a load of cobblers and you know it.  Ask your wife for an
    honest answer, and you'll see that the only thing you're sharing is foolish,
    eccentric behavior.  I don't need to be married to know that.

    Message: 67655
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Beck/Morality
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 03:12:17

      If genuine morality has nothing to do with religion or business ethics,
    then what *is* it, and *where* does it come from?  Can there be such a thing
    as absolute morality, or is it totally dependent on an individual's
    perception of it?

              ======  Pascal  =(O,O)=  Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ======

    Message: 67656
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff on GT
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 07:21:09

    The losers of the trivia game will spend a day in the Zone?? Oh oh - you
    better remember you were a loser the last time - however, it was of course,
    a fluke on Paul's team part! I never heard of the Sysop going to the Zone!
                              -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67657
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob T./Smitty's Cake
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 08:40:21

    Maybe we could have them frost a little bad check and a rope in the shape of
    a noose on the cake.

    Message: 67658
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod / 67646
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 08:49:23

       But when did style ever take legitimate precedence over substance? You
    said yourself that you hand typed those messages and did not duplicate the
    content of the messages exactly. In adding reference points, the individual
    lines of text became longer, and some of them became too long to store on
    one Apollo message line. So some manual "word-wrap" needed to take place,
    and in a few cases, this involved hyphenating a word between lines. Each of
    your messages were at or right near the Apollo buffer limit.

    Message: 67659
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GT/misery
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 09:04:58

    I could go to the GT if it were guaranteed that I would have a miserable
    time. But since there is a smidgen of a possibility that I could have a
    good time (Trivial Pursuit), I would have to decline.

    Message: 67660
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Smitty's
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 12:58:43

    What crime was he leaving the scene of?

    Message: 67661
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Home birth
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 13:10:11

    Glad you decided to do something about avoiding a very unpleasant
    birth environment.  Hospitals ARE changing, but it's taken an awful lot
    of pressure to force them to do it.  The medical establishment also
    seems to do its level best to discourage home birth.

    We were lucky (well, not just lucky, we asked around) in our choice of
    doctor when Sarah (our daughter) was born.  This fellow believed in
    natural birth without a load of the medical claptrap that the profession
    likes to dress it up in -- unless medically necessary, of course.  Sarah
    was in fact born in a hospital, but the whole thing was done in one
    birthing room with both of us there, no special gowns, no shaving, no
    enemas, none of that stuff.  It might just as well have been at home, and
    we both thought it was great.  But it was unusual.

    This fellow also knew how to do external version to correct breech
    presentation; and he did it, successfully.  A lot of the ob-gyn people
    aren't even taught that in medical school.  They think it's midwife's
    witchcraft or something.  They'd rather do a C-section.  That was why
    we changed doctors to this guy in the first place.  He was excellent,
    and (unfortunately) uncommon in the profession.

    Message: 67662
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: News Today
    Subject: July 19, 1967
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 15:22:21

    Happy Birthday to me,
    Happy Birthday to me,
    I'm twenty-three, happy as can be,
    Happy Birthday to me!

    Message: 67663
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Rojer
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 15:23:15

    Everyone is just getting hostile because we all want to meet you.  So, if
    you can make it, please do!

    Message: 67664
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Melissa Dee
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 15:36:47

            Happy Birthday Melissa Dee.  I am glad you are as happy as can be.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- may you have many more!

    Message: 67665
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last on Rojer
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 15:39:00

            Rojer?   or Roger...  But anyways gang, we can always move the GT
    down to his house.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67666
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: birthday
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 16:21:25

    Happy birthday melissa, and may you stay healthy for an other year.
    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 67667
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: MacGregor/morality
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 17:52:00

    It doesn't come from anywhere.  It is complicated to answer in general
    terms, and in fact cannot be done in both a finite and entirely
    accurate/comprehensive sense.  The fact that you would need to ask the
    question indicates that you are either non-sentient or evil, or perhaps
    merely attempting to clarify the difference between genuine morality and
    arbitrarily determined conventions of behavior.  I will assume the latter.
    I cannot give you an algorithm for morality.  I suggest that you ask
    yourself what possible meaning morals have if instead of being based on
    objective relations between sentient beings and the results of these
    relations in terms of justice, if instead of being based on this, they are
    based on the arbitrary dictates of a being (God or not).  Furthermore, let
    us draw a distinction between moral behavior and moral motivation.  I think
    that practical ethics may sometimes coincide with moral ethics, but that
    says nothing about motives.
    I also think that for most people, much of the time, the motives are
    complex; that is, both practical ethics and moral ethics are components of
    behavior.

    Message: 67668
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/messages
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:19:45

    It really does not matter as it is really no 'biggie'.  I re-read the
    messages you uploaded and noticed that in one instance you had two lines
    that said the same thing.

    As I said, I typed them to you while in 'mail' and did not type the same two
    lines over.

    Forget it.

    Message: 67669
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike/news
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:20:37

    NEWS FLASH!!!  Dateline Phoenix......Today I ran into a old friend at a car
    lot.  He brought up the subject of the Smitty's Massacre and informed me
    that last week while tracking the deceased in order to either take his
    automobile or get his payments up to date, that a gun was put up to his
    head by the subject and his life threatened.

    My friend escaped and notified the Phoenix Police who tried to take
    Rankins into custody but was unsuccessful.

    A few days later my friend managed to repossess the automobile and I
    suppose that is why a taxi cab was being used by the subject.

    My friend then told me that he was shown on the news because when he saw
    people picketing Smitty's he stopped and told them what type of person they
    were defending.

    He said that he had obtained a police report and that tomorrow he would
    bring it to the lot so that I may copy it.

    I still believe that our basic structure of society is responsible for the
    ills that we see or hear about on a daily basis.  Until we, as a unit, make
    some necessary changes there will be crime aplenty in our land.  -Rod

    Message: 67670
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: MacProgrammer/morals
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:24:44

    I need no guidelines of religion to give me morals.  I know when something
    hurts and also know that hurt generates more hurt.

    Positive generates positive.

    I live in this world and I can take my pick between making it an
    unconfortable place or a nicer place.

    I do not see where any religious doctrine is necessary unless a person need
    to be taught everything before they believe it.  And believe it or not,
    there are many people that do need to be taught everything.

    Message: 67671
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:34:08

    The mid-wife who helped deliver the baby has over 600 births to her credit.

    In order to be licensed in this profession one must be an apprentice for 50
    births.  One must also have the necessary insurance.

    The total cost these days is $800 up from $600 of two years ago.  You can
    pay all at once when the baby is born or a bit at a time, it doesn't matter.

    Jasmine never took nor did she need anything for the pain as somehow it was
    always easier at home than the hospital.

    Twenty years ago, around the time of our first born, the doctors I spoke
    with seemed to think that a mother nursing a new born was a bad idea.  That
    took much of the respect away that I previously had for that profession.

    Yes, don't give the babies milk that's natural, give them the milk from a
    cow instead.  The National Dairy Industry could sure use the money.
    Barf.

    Message: 67672
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Jeff L./Melissa
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:35:32

    What happens to Melissa after the year is up?

    Message: 67673
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 07/19/90  Time: 18:40:29

    Wanna celebrate?  You should have held out from being born until July 25th.

    We finally named our new baby, Katrina Starr.

    Thanks to Jeff Beck for picking the name.  Everytime her name is mentioned
    from here on out then Jeff will receive 25 cents per instance.

    Way to go Jeff.

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