### Apollo BBS Archive - April 29, 1990

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 6365
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 11:49:28

    Hey, wake up and smell the coffee.....
    There's Starvation....there's $#!+loads of killing, Piles upon piles
    of uncaring, thoughtless individuals, and well, heck, you've just
    about proven there is a God by all that...I mean...if there were
    no such things (killing, hate, uncaring, starvation...) just what
    would you say then eh?

    I know.....

    Message: 6366
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Last....
    Subject: 50
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 11:54:14

    Some very good posts by the creationist camp. Excellent, well
    thought-out and factual posts. Very good and well done.
    The Evolutionist camp, as always, brushes off any scientist or
    books that refute and question their so called facts...
    so once again, they're ignoring the burning questions and brushing aside
    the fact that their authors and books can and are just as errant
    as they claim ours to be.

    The world just keeps spinning away....
    another day....another night...another day...

    Oh well.

    P.S. Zak, you prove you're incapable of thoughtfull discussion by your
    ad hominem attacks..so go play outside.

    Message: 6367
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Mike C.
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 14:31:08

      I don't feel compelled to invent gods to explain the things I do not know.
    For the most part that has fallen out of favor now. Doing it a couple of
    thousand years ago, when such things were in vogue, and then having large
    numbers of people devote their lives to propelling the story from one
    generation to the next is the only way to go.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 6368
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 14:44:36

      If the theory of evolution turns out to be completely wrong, how would
    that add any credibility to the case for God? It is not a case of Either
    evolution as we currently theorize it OR GOd. Substituting illogic and faith
    in the supernatural when current knowledge can not completly anwer a
    question is not a viable alternative. God would have to proven to exist,
    rather than evolution disproved, in order for any reasonable case for God to
    be advanced.
      The logic that brings you to say that God must exist because our everyday
    experience doesn't show us how life began or arrived at complex states is
    faulty. You can constructively address any deficiencies in evolution theory
    by creating a better model of how species do appear, but don't ask us to
    accept that they were created whole with no evidence other than the fact
    that you can't live without the religion which says it is so.
      I have said about all I care to on this subject, and I am sure you have as
    well. You apparently take this a lot more seriously than I do, since I would
    not kill myself if I found out I had been wrong and there was a God. I have
    tried to avoid getting too deep in these religious debates in the past, but
    I seem to have let myself get all the way into this one.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 6369
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 14:59:27

            I don't recall saying "God must exist because our everyday
    experience doesn't show us how life began...." etc.

            I had brought this up before, even if only briefly, a third theory
    about 'man' being brought here by spacemen.  Sounds funny, but evolution has
    so many holes in it when it comes to mankind, that I would accept 'spacemen'
    over evolution.

            1) A God   2) A spaceman   3) we assembled ourselves

            Your right about one thing....  I have never gotten this involved
    myself and have said about all I can say.  I NEVER expected to convert
    anyone, and that was not my goal.  From my point of view, you may believe in
    what ever you want to believe....but let me believe in what I feel is right
    for me...in PEACE!

                                    Good Bye
                                            Cliff

    Message: 6370
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean/all out
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 15:49:35

    Thank you for going "all out" as you say.  What you say will look very good
    in a book someday.  Thanks again.  -Rod

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 3797
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Beyond...
    Subject: Drivin' Home
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 13:49:59

    Driving down the freeway after a long day at work, she tried to relax by
    listening to the radio but the Suger Cubes just weren't working.  She turned
    it off with a angry flip of the wrist and sighed at the new found silence.
    It sure was getting hotter these days, she thought.  It must be close to
    midnight; not too many cars on the road.  This shirt sure is uncomfortable
    and this bra is killing me.  Well, I suppose if I just take it off real
    quick, no one would see.  She looked around her.  There wasn't a car
    anywhere near hers.  "Fuck it!  I'll take 'em both off" she said and rapidly
    unbuttoned her shirt and unhooked her bra.  She turned off the air vents and
    rolled down the windows, raising her arms so that the wind rushed underneath
    her breasts.  "Oh man, that's great.  I needed that." she giggled a little
    then, thinking about how silly she must look.  "Oh, I don't care."
    She noticed her hand was resting her the lap of her skirt and thought,
    "might as well go all the way!"  and proceeded in pulling up her skirt and
    pulling off her panties.  Her hands began to tease the insides of her thighs
    as she thought of the man that had come into work.  He was funny, had made
    her laugh, the real highlight of her rotten day.  He was cute, too.  Oh
    geez, what am I thinking! she thought.  He is so much younger than me.  I'm
    sure he only saw me as a teller and nothing else.  But still it was nice to
    think about what he'd be like.  He was tall, probably about 6'4" at least
    and was slim but not skinny.  It looked like he probably watched a lot of
    sports on TV rather than playing any, but he didn't have a beer belly - yet.
    He probably had a long, slender penis.  It's pretty easy to figure out what
    a man's dick is going to be like just from the rest of him.

    And it almost always works.  Except for that time with that kid in high
    school.  Wow, that was weird.  He was about 5' 10" and was kind of chunky.
    I wasn't expecting anything really fantastic but I didn't expect TWO inches
    either.  It was quite embaressing.  I felt sorry for the guy.
    What the hell got me thinking about that?
    She noticed her hand that had been teasing her thighs was now lightly
    stroking her clit and she was starting to get wet.  Oh my!  I should be
    paying attention to the road!  God, I must be really spaced.
    But when she stopped, her clit started to throb, pulsing for more.  Well, it
    IS an automatic and I DO have it set on cruise...there aren't any cars
    around - not many anyway.  Hummmm.
    She opened the sun roof to catch some of the moon light and gazed at the
    stars.  She loved the night with it's cool breezes and twinkling lights.
    She took her right leg and moved it up and over the transmission and laid it
    down on the passengers seat.  She kept her left foot under the wheel in case
    she needed to brake.  She reclined her seat back a bit and then began lighly
    circling around her clit.  She used some of her juice to slickin her finger,
    making the rubbing go smoother.  She wanted to massage her breasts but knew
    she had to keep at least one hand on the wheel.  She then imagined that man,
    what was his name?, something different...Gabrieal!  But she could called
    him Gabe, he had said.  Gabe was there, sqeezing her nipples and rubbing his
    hands over her hot body.  He was there, licking her erection and probing
    inside of her.  He was there whispering in her ear and stroking her neck to
    give her goose bumps.  He was there, he was there, he was there!

    Oh she wanted him inside of her.  His long, slender cock moving slowly in
    and out of her as he sucked on her tits and bit at her ears.
    She could feel the tention in her pelvis as she began rocking to the rhythms
    of her fingers - one up inside her hot well, one rubbing her clit softly but
    quickly and one pushing in slightly on her ass.  He was coming, he started
    to say, he was going to come he moaned louder, and louder, and screaming --
    he's coming, oh God he's coming, oh oh oh ohhhhhhh!
    "Ohhhhhhhh..." she cried into the night air as her body contracted and
    she fell forward on to the steering wheel, honking the horn.  "Oppps," she
    said aloud, looking around her to see if anyone was watching.  There was
    only one car behind her, it's lights too far off to shine on her naked body.
    She looked up into the stars and sighed a long, deep sigh.  She rested her
    arms on the wheel and returned her leg to the floor by the petals.  Her
    whole body felt relieved, released, relaxed.  She quietly laughed to herself
    and thought "gee, I REALLY needed that."

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 65112
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: I missed it
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 01:31:11

    Gee, I wish I could have made it.  It sounds like lots of people were there
    and I wanted to try my hand at shooting under supervision.
    Welp, I finished with the production of _Billy's Iguana_ so I only have 15
    more credits to worry about.  And my model is looking pretty good, too!
    Only ten more days...

    Message: 65113
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 02:53:44

    People are supposed to marry before they have sex. Great. It might even work
    out. If they are Christians, they will probably stay together, miserable or
    not. Ever hear that song by Meatloaf, basically, the guy marries for sex and
    is quite miserable. And the experience might not be all it's cracked up to
    be. But, of course, sex is just for procreation. And enjoying it is
    wrong(remember, your religion taught that, not mine). And you must have
    children, and stay together, happy or not for them.
    It is much better for people to engage in a "married" relationship, without
    formalizing, to see if they are compatible. Of course, you have some
    arguement against that. Don't live with the person first, that's wrong.
    Don't find out that your bride to be snores, and that just drives you up the
    wall. And she won't find out about your smelly feet you bring into the
    marriage bed.
    But, of course, you can work all these problems out, right? Along with all
    the other problems newlyweds face. Bliss at its finest!

    Message: 65114
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Phx Zoning Changes
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 07:45:31

            Those of you living in Phoenix might be interested in
    checking out the Phoenix Zoning Fidonet Echo.  This is a local
    echo intended for distribution in the metro Phoenix area only.
    The echo's purpose is to promote awareness and discussion of
    changes the City of Phoenix is proposing to its zoning ordinance,
    with a special emphasis on how those changes will affect home-
    based businesses.
            The Phoenix Zoning Echo should be available to any FidoNet
    BBS in the Phoenix area; ask the Sysop to add it.  If you prefer,
    you can access it by calling Amiga City at (602) 788-7144.

    Message: 65115
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: involvement
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 10:30:17

            It AGAIN has been brought to my attention that *I* should not get
    involved with discussions.  A Sysop should remain neutral and his only job
    is to keep the hardware running and making sure the board stays somewhat
    clean.
            I guess I forgot my place.....

                                    Sysop-

    Message: 65116
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod on Dieties
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 11:26:53

    Oh well, 50 lashes for incorrect spelling.
    My interpretation from the bible of the sea of burning fire..the lake
    of souls and the many variations thereof tend to be interpreted through
    understanding what God means to me.
    If God *demanded* anything like Rod would suggest, he wouldn't wait until
    we were dead to collect. Plain and simple.

    The bible says that the only way INTO heaven is through Jesus, the son
    of God. By accepting the gift of eternal life from Jesus we can enter.
    To accept a GIFT, one must want to take it. Again, God hasn't forced any
    of this on you. It's OFFERED.
    When the books close, the sun goes down for the last time and all the
    heavens open up and the judgement is done...the people who accepted
    the gift will be with the one who wanted them and they wanted.
    Those who did not want to be forgiven, or have anything to do with God
    will be left behind. What remains is anything that has nothing to do with
    God. [ the void..the uncrossable pit] It would seem to me, through MY
    interpretation that:
    (A) Nothing is being forced, demanded or ripped from you in any way.
    (B) You make a concious choice and are soley responsible for it.
    (C) Without GOD, there remains only hunger, void, disease, hate,
        (burning hate at that) and the unforgiven sins of the inhabitants
        of this merry place we'll now call the lake of souls..people burning
         in their own misery and foolishness. A choice they wanted.

    Message: 65117
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last / last
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 11:38:53

    To conclude... complete removal of God's presence, influence and
    creation would be somewhat like moving out of the neighborhood...
    only that because you made everything, and all the property is yours
    to begin with, the entire neighborhood is removed, houses, clothes,
    toothbrushes, cars, trees, grass, air, light, sound etc etc etc....
    Kinda lmyike what the IRS does to people.
    Different only in that God sent in his son to tell people there's a much
    better place when they're ready to go.
    If they don't want to go...AGAIN...NOTHING is forced upon them...
    your own FREE WILL allowed you to go against the wishes of God and
    go against his will.
    To this extent, we get ourselves into trouble. He doesn't cause the trouble
    in our lives..but he does try to help us avoid it...just like HELL...
    it's avoidable!!!!
    If you don't want HEAVEN, eternal life, then you don't get it!
    It's just like a pizza parlor...you ORDER what you want...in this sense,
    you ASK for God's Gift...and unlike many pizza places...it comes free
    of charge, complimentary and on the HOUSE!
    And guess what? This pizza, once accepted, will not leave you hungry
    for anyone else's brand X pizza!
    Get yours while the offer lasts..expires the same day you do...it's
    a REAL void where prohibited and first come, first served!
    Hell = Abscence of God and anything Good (God Like)
    I'd say that would be like roasting in a sea of Fire!

    You can send the $10.00 to
    Cliff for my next year dues.

    Message: 65119
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: The Shoot-out
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 13:09:40

    A thankyou to everyone for a good GT!
    A round of applause to The Hathaways for the weenies and
    being good sports! (What of the video?)
    Thanks to Sandy Sysop for the fun "Hallway Intruder Bashing"
    and to Cliff for the excellent hand-loads.
    However....absolutely NO THANKS to the SUN for completely FRYING my
    skin to the 2nd degree....major pain.

    Message: 65120
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Hans
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 13:35:00

    "I swore I'd love ya til the end of time...
    So now I'm praying for the end of time, to hurry up and arrive,
    cuz if I gotta spend a nother minute with you
    I don't think that I could really survive.
    I'd never break my promise, or forget my vows
    but God only knows what I could do right now.
    I'm praying for the end of time that's all I can do (oh oh!)
    I'm praying for the end of time so I can end my time with you"

    Meatloaf, from the album Bat out of Hell, "Paridise by the Dashboard Light"

    Message: 65121
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Mike C.
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 15:28:01

      I stand by my statement about getting along fine with theists by taking
    into account that they hold a part of their beliefs apart from inquiry. In
    the final analysis theists will tell you themselves that their beliefs are
    not arrived at by logic, but faith. That does not hold with any of the other
    examples you used to try to equate my attitude toward theists with racial
    bigotry, etc. Those examples were not ones in which the person is devoted to
    a belief system which they readily admit can not be arrived at by logic. If
    I disagree with someone, even totally, that does not mean that they refuse
    to think or learn. They may have reached different conclusions based on
    experience, and they may be right where I am wrong. The difference is in the
    application of reason as the means of acquiring and modifying beliefs. I

    don't accept things totally, and as being beyond question, on faith alone.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 65122
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Shoot-Out
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 15:31:19

      The good news is that I video taped the GT and have transferred it to VHS.
    The only bad news is that my camcorder battery went dead just as we lined up
    for the grand finale water-bottle blast and I did not get it on tape. There
    is a lot of good footage though. We can probably arrange to get copies to
    interested parties somehow.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 65123
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Dean/last
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 15:56:01

    Perhaps Satan made those batteries go dead.

    Something to think about, sometimes,
                            Rod

    Message: 65124
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: To fundies.
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 15:57:38

    I must confess that my last post on the $tatus sig was a little out of line
    wherein I stated that I would "spring for a half-witted god."  Allow me to
    apologize and to rephrase that comment.

    I said that we would all be in trouble if there really was a god but after
    thinking about my statement for some time I came to the realization that I
    could be in error on that one.  I thought of logging on and zapping that
    post but didn't.  Oh well.

    My new post:  I believe that all humans would be in grave danger if the
    Christian, the Shiite or several other gods of religion did, in fact,
    exist.

    Concentrating on the Christian God and you can pretty much use the same
    information for other deities, consider the following:

    If the only way to achieve the state of eternal heaven is to believe in and
    accept God's son, Jesus as a personal savior then think on this.

    There are now and have been in the past, billions and billions of living
    souls on this earth plane who would have and who will, under this Christian
    God's law, perish.

    Consider all of the Moslems, atheists, and other assorted people that do
    not take the Christian God into account whatsoever.  Think of the personal
    hardships that confront men of all faiths.

    Consider a farmer in India plowing his field in order to keep his family
    alive and healthy.  His concerns are those of all fathers throughout the
    world.  He sees his children become sick or injured and he worries about
    them the same as any Christian would.  His feelings rival those of all
    beliefs.  He has worked out sums and experienced deep feeling of pain and
    happiness as all life everywhere.

    But because he was taught differently, according to the fundamentalist, he
    will suffer untold eternal torment.

    The Christian God is all knowing, therefore he knew that multi-billions
    would perish from the very beginning of creation.

    I say again, those who worship the Christian God or any Deity who does not
    give equal love and protection to all are in reality worshipping the spirit
    of Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot and Joseph Stalin.  For those men, during their
    rein did set up blockades to a certain portion of the population and cause
    their death.  Those who did not hold, for instance, the Nazi regime to be a
    just cause were tortured and slain without mercy.

    In this way, a fundamentalist Christian is of the same ilk.  Meditate on
    these things that I am saying and try to be honest to yourself.  -Rod

    Message: 65126
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 04/29/90  Time: 15:59:49

    Show me one iota of logic in your post to me, just one.