### Apollo BBS Archive - December 21, 1991

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    |    .          .                 -+- |      |    MERRY CHRISTMAS    |
    | .       .            .      .    |  |      *    FROM APOLLO 8.0    *
    |                  .           .   | .|      +-----------------------+
    |    .       .            .   _____ . |      | Arizona's Oldest BBS! |
    |                            /_____\  |      *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
    |  .      .       .   .     //     \\ |
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    |     .        .    .    .  || \_/ || |
    |___________________________|| / \ ||_|

    A Child will be  born for us, a Son will be given to us, and the government
    will be on His shoulder, and He will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty
    God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace...And  this is  how you will  know
    Him: you will find a Baby all wrapped up and lying in a manger.

    Mail from Pete Fischer
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 21:18:16

    I'll be very priviledged (boy I wish this thing had a spell checker) to
    return to the house of Rod. There will be some "pesky relatives" in town
    this week, and I will have to hang out with 'em. But they seem to go to bed
    early (old folks, y'unnerstan). Anyways, I'll be in touch. Pete
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:But you didn't answer my question about Petrisko?  I was taught that all
     2:Commies, atheists, people of different skin color or those who spoke foreign
     3:languages should be executed for the good of the state.  Besides, Petey
     4:would then become a martyr.  Press coverage, whether favorable or not is
     5:still publicity.  We would be doing him a favor.
     6:
     7:It will be good to see you.
     8:
     9:                                Rod

    Late Night Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 2101
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Yawn...
    Subject: what?
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 00:54:52

    Did Melissa cuss?  Oh no.  Another honeymoon sex story?  Yay.  C'mon,
    Melissa, you know Cliff's kids like to get on the LATE night sig all the
    time.  You should know better.

    Message: 2102
    Author: $ Travis SysOp
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zak?
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 12:29:25

            Yes we do  And, since we are sysops with invisible powers, we
    can be in this sig at any time of day or night.  Who are you by the way?
    I can see by your profile, you are an OLD user   Poor ->old<- man.

            The only sigs we are locked out of are cosmos and old fart and
    conference room.

            When we take over Apollo, we will be on them as well
                            Mr T-ravis

    Message: 2103
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Who is Zak!
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 23:09:26

    Actually, Mr. Travis Sysop, Zak is about your age.

    Late Night Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Travis

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:That message wasn't very Christian of you.  Respect your elders.  But there
     2:are many more that apply if you know your Bible.
     3:Be good little children.
     4:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 2104

    *=* Public Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Press  to abort

    Message: 80732
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod--last
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 22:00:19

    Cheesy.

    Message: 80733
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Latin
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 00:01:21

    The thing that makes Latin so intimidating and impressive is omne ignotum
    pro magnifico.

    Message: 80734
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak/last
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 00:04:39

    Now listen, you sniveling galactophage...

    Message: 80735
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Latin
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 00:42:06

    Sibile, sibile, si ergo
    fortibus es inero.
    Nobile, Nobile, demis trux;
    inem deris causen dux.

    Message: 80736
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Matlock
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 00:52:57

    Yes?

    Message: 80737
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Log in Header
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 02:53:56

            Just in case you did not knotice the   d 9
                                                   w 1
            in the top center of the log in header,
            it was done by Daryl Westfall.

                    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 80738
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Login Header
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 05:31:57

     Very nicely done, and appreciated by this believer.

    Message: 80739
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Green-Latin, Pig
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 06:41:30

    All I remember from "I Claudius" (or "I Clavdivs," as we like to call it) is
    "Yo!  Urethra!  Pass the grapes!  Wow!  Lookathat babe dance!"

    Message: 80740
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 09:18:50

    Good little keyboard Christmas drawing. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 80741
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Header
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 09:29:39

    Oh, thanks for the explanation.  I thought I had logged on to The Ark there
    for a minute...

    :>

    Message: 80742
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Christmas drawing
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 13:04:09

    I second Ann's comments on the Christmas drawing.  Nice sentiment.  Thanks.

    Message: 80743
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: ARch1/4
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 14:04:29

    Why involve the gvt in the currency??  I imagine you must have heard these
    reasons before - to have some sort of stability between the states, to have
    some confidence in the 'value' of the money, and to promote/faciltiate
    foreign trade.
      Your proposal that supposedly would get the gvt out of the currency
    system would inevitably drag it back in.  After all, who is going to make
    sure all those people, banks, businesses issuing "backed" currency really
    have the backing?  Who is going to make sure all those scales used to
    weight coins are REALLY accurate??  And on and on.  With a little thought,
    it is immediately obvious why a "valueless" in the absolute sense, currency
    is actually a "better" currency.
      And then, as you latter said, we can do pretty much what you want to do
    anyways, if we want to.  Then you launch off into an attack on the IRS.
    Unless your objection is simply to the paying of taxes, for whatever
    reason, I see no basis for your attack on the IRS as somehow messing up the
    system you want.  All the IRS is going to do is tax you on your income.  If
    there is (and there is) some current way to equate income in "value" to
    income in FRNs then you can pay your taxes appropriately and aside from
    that one transaction, never have to deal with FRNs.   And of course, you
    don't really have to deal with FRNs, you can pay by check.  (Yes I know
    there are other taxes, but the same thing applies to them).
         Once again, your objections are stated in terms of our currency but
    your real objection remains that fact that the gvt isn't doing things
    exactly the way you think they should,not the currency being use.

    Message: 80744
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Arch2/4
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 14:05:08

         Why does the gvt disregard "value" in setting "value" for tax purposes?
    What would you have them do?  Force you to sell your house in order to
    establish it's value??  They tax on the basis of currently expected value if
    there was a willing buyer and willing seller.  In Arizona, the assesed
    values have been dropping quite a bit due to the soft markets.  Of course,
    they just raise the tax rate to make up for the drop in assesements so the
    tax may or may not acutally go down.  I'm not sure I understand your
    complaint!?!?!  Is it that you think they should have to stick with whatever
    the orignal selling price was and never get to raise it from year to year as
    the FRNs change in value??  That would not make sense.  Fairness requires
    that everyone be taxed on the same basis and the only basis that really is
    possible to apply to everyone is "current" value.  Of course, they have
    chosen FRNs as the denomination but they could just have easily used
    something else I suppose and then converted it later.  The result would be
    the same.

    Message: 80745
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: arch3/4
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 14:05:48

    RE: Contracts must be in legal tender.
      I don't think that is correct.  I can agree to trade you my house for your
    house and if we both think they are of equal value (no matter what
    denomination) we can both execute deeds to transfer them to each other with
    the operative clause in the deeds being "For 10 dollars and other valuble
    consideration I hereby transfer......etc....."
      The only part of what you suggest touches on the truth is that the gvt
    requires an affidavit of value form be filed for property tax purposes.  If
    both parties argree that the houses are of equal value then both affidavits
    would show the same "value" in terms of FRNs and it would need to be
    something reasonable for the current market.
      In regard to rental agreements, I think most use FRNs for the denomination
    but they don't have to as far as I know.  In fact, I do know that some
    rental agreements include both FRNs and "service", i.e., a small apartment
    complex may have a rental agreement for one unit for the tenants to pay
    rent for $xxx amount AND to act as agents for the owner for collecting rents
    from the other tenants and to handle repairs.  It is my guess (I am not a
    lawyer and don't give advise) that in that situation the only thing that
    would show up on the Tax returns would be the FRN amounts.  The "labor"
    amounts would not show up on either the APt owners forms or the tenants
    forms.

    Message: 80746
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Arch 4/4
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 14:06:49

         RE:  ownership of gold, etc==> You've gone off the deep end.  I realize
    that you view "ownership" of most things as a fiction due to the possiblity
    of it being sold for taxes, particularly real property.  I agree with you
    that you can lose ownership that way and that there is emminent domain
    losses, etc, but view your view as going outside the bounds of reason.  We
    just have a view of things in that regard.  If property could not be sold
    for
    taxes (and aside from the question of should there be taxes at all) what
    would lthe option be???  If you can't compel taxes thru sale who would pay?
         As to owning gold, I'm completely lost on that as I see no restriction
    at all on people owning all the gold they want.  In fact, there is less
    restriction since it isn't even subject to continuing tax the way property
    is
    so you can accumulate all you want with out fear of having to sell it to pay
    the taxes.
         As to not being able to transfer ownership of gold becuase you have to
    use FRNs - that's nonsense.  Nothing compells you to use FRNs to buy gold.
    Raise wheat and trade if for gold if you want.  I suspect your real
    objection
    is that the sale may be subject to a tax.  Again, you are confusing your
    objects of objection.  You simply are looking for any and all excuses to try
    and scuttle the tax system.  Since the system treats us all the same I see
    no
    logic to your complaints - it seems to me you are just looking for some way
    to pay less tax on the same transaction as others because you DON"T use FRNs
    and others DO.  You want to pretend you are dealing in 1901 value when
    others
    are at 1991 value.

    Message: 80748
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: For sale
    Subject: Star Ship Enterprise
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 15:26:21

            The Franklin Mint Star Ship N.C.C. 1701 (the first one) made in
    pewter and original cost 200.00 FRNs

            For sale for 150.00 FRNs or 30 ounces of .999 fine silver

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 80749
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: FRNs.
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 15:28:59

    If our economy gets so bad that in order to survive we need gold or
    silver then I would rather quietly check out of this planet than stick
    around and watch the misery unfold.  Death before squalor.  -Rod

    Message: 80751
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill/Clavdivs
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 15:40:32

    Yes, one more reason for the fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of
    Right-wing Republicanism.

    Message: 80752
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hello, again.
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 20:07:25

    Merry Christmas.
    MERRY Christmas.
    Merry CHRISTMAS.
    MERRY CHRISTMAS.

    Merry CHRISTmas.

    Daryl

    Message: 80753
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Roger
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 21:33:23

    Mvft yov vfe all of thofe archaic fpelling conventionf?

    Message: 80754
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Story
    Date: 12/23/91  Time: 00:22:05

                  THE STORY OF WINTER SOLSTICE   by Rod

    It was cold and dark.  The tribe was cold and hungry.  They have been
    noticing the recession of the Sun and again they worried if it might not
    come back.

    The food they had gathered when the plants were plentiful was running low.
    The old ones, those who had made it around the Sun 35 times or more, were
    asked for their opinion of what to do.

    Thus the early ancients huddled together around the early evening
    campfire.  All stories of past knowledge were brought into the discussion
    and plans for the tribes continued survival were formulated.

    The paranoids of the group told of how they had beaten on hollow logs in
    the forest in order to make the Sun disk take notice and return.  It always
    worked.

    The moderates did not know enough about motion of the heavenly bodies to
    say one way or the other.  So they beat while other tribes may have burnt
    pungent leaves and twigs to entice old Sol.

    Eventually mathematicians calculated planetary motion which led to people
    relaxing their superstitious stance and found themselves free to celebrate.
    And celebrate we did.  Having parties and giving gifts and some of us
    getting drunk while others just burnt the yule log.

    Solstice is the natural day of celebration for humankind.  Alas, The Sun
    Returneth!  It needs no gods to appease or be fearful of.

    HAVE A MERRY SOLSTICE SEASON AND MAY YOU FIND WARMTH.  -Rod

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Press  to abort

    Message: 8759
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Entertainment
    Subject: Bill Burkett - cub
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 19:54:45

    > No, but you can be my little brownie.

    That sounds gross.

    Message: 8761
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 06:41:55

    Thank you.

    Message: 8762
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Believe it or not!
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 11:18:25

    I think I ran into Zak's evil twin yesterday.

    Looked kind of like him.  A little taller and older.  He was talking JUST
    like him though.  Scary.  He claimed that someone had slipped into his house
    and drugged his soup.  And that the police or FBI were planting things in
    his house so they could frame him.

    Is this what Zak has to look forward to?

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Press  to abort

    Message: 5281
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: no short term memory
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 21:39:06

    RE: Melissa, the guy who played piano and then "snapped."  You should read
    Oliver Sacks' _The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat_.  Really neat book.

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* Nick's Music Palace Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Press  to abort

    Message: 1563
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat & Sing
    Subject: Rod on Crash Worship
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 21:47:55

    Peter and me saw Crash Worship perform in Tucson. They were ... interesting.
    Basically a bunch of rich kids playing "Lord of the Flies." But, they know
    how to create audience participation.
         What other industrial music do you like, Roddy?

    Message: 1564
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: New-Release
    Subject: The Orb
    Date: 12/21/91  Time: 21:52:02

    The Orb's "Adventures Beyond the Ultraworld" (or something) is a really neat
    acid-house/industrial/dance band.  They sample, they have lots of weird
    sounds, good throbbing beats, a reggae-ish song, Tangerine-Dream type
    computer sequences... There is even a 15+ minute song that is a long,
    hypnotic, sample-full mess of sound that is very enjoyable to have going in
    the background while trying to do homework.
         The import version is a double CD, but domestically it's a single.  The
    import is supposed to have the best, and weirdest, stuff on it, but it'll be
    extrememly difficult to find, and probably too expensive. Too bad.

    Message: 1565
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit-Chat & Sing
    Subject: Orb
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 06:42:23

    I like that "little puffy clouds" thing they do with the Ricky Lee Jones
    sample.  Makes me wanna cry, though.  Reminds me of the desert and,
    therefore, my dear, departed jeep.  Reminds me of how blue the sky USED to
    be; the kind of unfathomably deep sapphire blue you still see in the White
    Mountains.  Sometimes.

    Message: 1566
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Chit-Chat & Sing
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 09:27:19

    I heard that Ricky Lee Jones might sue them for sampling her voice.

    Message: 1567
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Disk Jockey
    Subject: Zak / last
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 15:30:27

    My musical tastes go from the Doors to Dylan to Donovan to the Dead,
    anything that starts with a "D".  However I have allowed a "C" in
    there because I thought there might be other sounds that were
    interesting.  I saw Crash Worship at Peter's Gallery X last summer and
    I was mentally and physically drawn into the music.  I found it
    difficult to resist after stepping into the back room where they were
    playing.  I could not stand still and actually I loved the all
    encompassing sound.  Sort of like a climax of the mind.

    I also have some European experimental music that I like to put on
    when my mind is in tune to the higher vibrations.  This includes
    Zoviet France and Whitehouse.

    Message: 1568
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat & Sing
    Subject: Last / With a "D"
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 20:00:58

    'DeGarmo & Key' starts with a "D"...

    So does Dino Kartonsakis...

    Message: 1569
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat & Sing
    Subject: Daryl/D/last
    Date: 12/23/91  Time: 00:19:55

    So does "Devil".

    *=* Post Office entered *=*

    Mail from James Hawley
    Date: 12/22/91  Time: 11:16:21

    I think everybody eats Fido if they get hungry enough.  Ummmmm, special
    tamales!

    Goodbye, Rod Williams
    You were on 02:04

    Please hang up now
    Qb{F1-c#{] z$`VB~
    NO CARRIER