### Apollo BBS Archive - December 27, 1991

        Welcome to Apollo BBS --- The Oldest BBS in Arizona --- Since 1982

        Happy Hollidays from the Apollo SysOp's to ALL .......

    Main Menu command:JN

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press  to abort

    Message: 5287
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Last
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 10:36:05

    I told you to turn that bulk eraser off!

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:JN

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* Public Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Public Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press  to abort

    Message: 80865
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Bill/last things
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 05:55:17

     First things first, Bill. Tha last book of the Bible is Revelation,
    singular, not "Revelations". plural. It consists of one single revelation of
    the risen Christ to His Apostle John while the latter was on the island of
    Patmos.
     Secondly, I think that Ihave heard about as many different ineterpretations
     of the book as I have preachers who tried to discern it. I'm sure that if
    someone wished to twist and turn certain areas of the totality of the
    prophecy they could make current events fit somehow.
     As a believer in God and His Word, I have personally developed an attitude
    toward those things that are not easily explained. I feel that God allows
    each of us to absorb and comprehend as much of His Word as we are able,
    and/or as much as we need to lead a life that is pleasing to Him. If I
    concentrate on living each day as unto Him, and in a manner consistent with
    the teaching of His Word, I can trust Him to take care of my future. In that
    way, I can put all my tomorrows in His capable hands, since He lights my
    path one step at a time.
     I know that the book of Revelation exists. I know that it deals with
    end-time prophecy. While it makes interesting reading, I long ago ceased
    trying to make current events fit into it's scenario, or vice versa.
     I know, that probably evades an answer to your question, but it's just my
    own point of view.

    Message: 80866
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Banks, etc.
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 06:02:09

     If you don't put  our money in banks, credit unions, S&Ls or whatever,
    isn't it kind of hard sleeping at night with all those lumps under the
    mattress?
     What do you consider a "safe" place for your money? Are there any "safe"
    investments, or places where you can make your money (frns) work for you? Or
    do  ou just spend it as quickly as you get it so that uncle Sam can't keep
    track of anything?
     THis is aimed at Archimedes and/or Cliff.

    Message: 80867
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul-2nd Coming
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 06:21:57

    Well, at least you're honest in your evasion.  Thanks for a thoughtful
    reply, Paul.

    Message: 80868
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Unprotected Ann
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 06:23:11

    >|> But I am not a little old lady.

    I'll leave that alone...  :)

    > And I don't feel it is up to the bank to be the protectors of
    > little old ladies either. ... It wasnt' a teller that gave me
    > the money - it was the vice president and they took me way in
    > the back room - which I appreciated that.

    If you don't feel YOU needed the bank's protection, and you don't feel
    "little old ladies" need the bank's protection, why do you appreciate their
    giving you the money in "the back room"?

    Was because of your patriotic desire to have your natural an unalienable
    right to privacy protected from onlookers?  Or was it because you were
    afraid some creep might knock you off and steal your cash?  If the latter,
    why are you willing to accept that protection, yet deny to others protection
    they may need?

    Message: 80869
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Straw Man Felix
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 06:23:40

    > Now I understand!  The IRS is actually trying to protect us
    > from our own stupidity when they arrest us for drawing out
    > large sums of money from our accounts.

    Thank you for trying to thwart my attempts to bring other viewpoints into
    this discussion by grossly distorting what I said, Felix.

    Message: 80870
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Green-2nd Coming
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 06:24:13

    > ... I think that the disappearance of the the Soviet Union
    > presents severe problems for those who are predicting the
    > imminent return of Jesus Christ ...

    Oh, I doubt that.  Aside from the fact that nothing in 2,000 years has
    presented any serious challenges to belief (perhaps it's more hope for) the
    Second Coming, it seems to me there was something about the AntiChrist (Is
    that capitalized correctly?) proclaiming peace just before she begins her
    evil campaigns.

    Message: 80871
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Meeting Jesus
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 10:19:32

    "If you meet Jesus on the road, kill him."

    (Or is that one about Buddha?)

    Message: 80872
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill on secrecyok
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 11:17:33

    The reason I appreciated them giving it to me in the back room is because I
    would have ask them to if they had not. That was MY way to protect myself
    from would-be creeps that would steal it before I reached my car - it was MY
    decision, not the banks!! The bank is a business - not in the business of
    minding mine!

    What am I denying others of? I don't understand why you are whinning because
    I don't want the bank protecting me. I want them to protect my money, that's
    all! From what I've been reading here, I think they aren't even going to be
    doing that pretty soon! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 80873
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Fred off deep end
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 16:49:40

    No need to scratch your head Cliff.  You and Arch mistook the fact that
    I don't agree with your assesments of the value of gold or Archs
    global banksters conspiracy theories as evidence that I was in lockstep
    with our nefarious gvt.  Many of what ARch says is basically correct IMHO
    but where he assigns various and sundry dark motives to it I just see it as
    the ineveitable result of human nature.  Doen't mean we don't need to
    correct
    much of what's wrong with this country but on the other hand, doesn't mean
    we should cut off our nose to spite our face by not using banks and railing
    against various and sundry windmills in ineffectual pursuit of change.

    Message: 80874
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: $3000 ticket to jail
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 16:50:53

    James Hawley,
    The $3000 limit was a relatively recent change.  One reason you don't
    remember being aware of any paperwork is that you aren't the one who
    reports the transaction to the IRS/FBI.  That bank makes the report,and if
    memory serves, they are not supposed to be tipping you off.  After all, the
    whole reason for the reporting system INSIDE the country (not the one for
    taking $10,000 outside the country) is to spy on you and your financial
    dealings.
      I don't know if you should be worried or not, depends on how many, if any,
    illegal activies you are engaged in :-).  However, if you want to find out
    what sort of files the IRS FBI CIA etc have on you I am uploading a file
    called FOIAFILE.TXT that contains the procedures for finding out under the
    Freedom of Information Act and contains sample letters to send.  I'm sending
    one in to the FBI just for kicks to see what kind of dirt, if any, they
    have on me.

    Message: 80875
    Author: $ Fred Smith
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon L/up the drum
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 16:51:50

    I can't stand the "Little Drummer Boy"  Someone should put those
    drumsticks where the sun don't shine......
      I like much of the other, older traditional Christmas music as long as
    it isn't played to excess.

    Message: 80876
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: News Today
    Subject: jury nullification
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 17:08:24

    Did anyone see the Maricopa Country Superior Court judge's opinion published
    in the opinion's column of today's Republic?  Apparently, it was in response
    to an editorial by Richard Lessner praising jury nullification, which,
    unfortunately, I missed.  I wrote a letter attempting to clear up several
    misleading statements by the judge, who, incidentally, argued against the
    concept.

    Message: 80877
    Author: James Matlock
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Gordon/various
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 17:33:27

    Certainly I would have called him a fraud.  Moses too, for that matter.  For
    an illuminating debunking of the "miracles" of the latter, see James
    Randi's article in the June '83 Skeptical Enquirer.  It turns out that David
    Copperfield has based several of his more elaborate illusions on principles
    discovered in an ancient text which he found while touring Israel.

    What do the newer texts use in place of Winnie's reference to the old
    monetary system?  "The twelve pence just wanted to come in after the pounds,
    so I let them..." loses something.

    _Christmas Time In The City_ wasn't commisioned by the U.S. Chamber of
    Commerce.  It was independently written and conceived by one Martin Lubcek
    of New York City.  Perhaps his place of residence accounts for his
    dreary, unromantic materialism.  Ironically, he *was* a retired psychologist
    from the behaviorist school, who worked closely with B.F. Skinner, and the
    line about ringing bells *is* an allusion to conditioned consumer response
    -- a private joke which he revealed in a letter to Bing Crosby (that latter
    tidbit can be found in Crosby's biography _Pipe Dreamer_ by Rolf Gunderson.

    _The Little Drummer Boy_ was written by the founder of an obscure religious
    sect of charismatics which called themselves "percussive evangelicals" and
    who based their obsession with drums on one or two ambiguous passages in the
    Bible prescribing "worship with music" and another one mentioning the Drums
    of Jericho.

    Message: 80878
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Bill/AntiChrist
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 18:59:41

    If the AntiChrist and Christ should collide, would we see an explosion of
    immense magnitude plus neutrinos, mesons, pions, and strange quarks ?

    Message: 80879
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Non-Xtian Xmas
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 19:09:58

    From the AZ Republic letters:
    Editor:
    "Christmas is over; we survived another season. As a Jew attempting to raise
    two Jewish children, I am certainly challenged by the contradictions of the
    Christmas holiday.
    I read with interest the results of your recent poll indicating that some 85
    percent of Arizonans believe that Christmas carols are appropriate in
    non-sectarian schools - the feeling being that the songs are not truly
    religious in nature.
    Perhaps I have been mistaken all these years, but it was my understanding
    that the trees, lights, songs and customs of Christmas were all beautiful
    and symbolic manifestations of the celebration of the birth of Jesus, and
    hence Christianity.
    It would appear that, as Jews, our participation in the Christmas holiday is
    something akin to being uninvited guests at a wedding, knowing neither the
    bride nor the groom, but showing up just to enjoy the catered dinner.
    What would you have me teach children about your religion - that Christmas
    is nothing more than a month-long party or that your customs and
    celebrations are meaningful expression of your belief in the birth of Jesus
    as your savior?
    For Jews to participate in this celebration while not maintaining the
    underlying belief seems to me to be both disrespectful and demeaning to this
    important Christian holiday. Insisting that Jewish schoolchildren
    participate by singing carols
    to undermine your stated goals of maintaining the 'true spirit of
    Christmas.'
    As for my own childrem 'tis the season of great angst, as they try to
    determine in their own 7- and 9-year-old minds whether, by singing about the
    joyous birth of baby Jesus, they are subscribing to Christianity, betraying
    their own religious beliefs or merely reciting meaningless words.
    To my Christian friends, you tell me: Is Christmas a religious holiday or
    not ?"

    TALIA L. ARIK
    Paradise Valley

    Message: 80881
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon/songs
    Date: 12/27/91  Time: 21:32:50

    Very interesting article you wrote about the different Christmas songs.  I
    prefer, "I saw mommy kissing santa claus" or "all I want for christmas is my
    two front teeth."  The latter was sung by Spike Jones and the former, Peggy
    Lee?
                    We three kings of Orient Are
                    Puffing on a rubber cigar
                    It was loaded, it exploded
                    We two kings of Orient Are.....blah blah.

    It did make school a bit more bearable though.

    Again good posts.

    Message: 80889
    Author: $ Archi Medes
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Safety
    Date: 12/28/91  Time: 01:20:56

    PS> If you don't put  our money in banks, credit unions, S&Ls or whatever,
    PS> isn't it kind of hard sleeping at night with all those lumps under the
    PS> mattress?   What do you consider a "safe" place for your money? Are
    PS> there any "safe" investments, or places where you can make your money
    PS> (frns) work for you? Or do  ou just spend it as quickly as you get it
    PS> so that uncle Sam can't keep track of anything?   THis is aimed at
    PS> Archimedes and/or Cliff.

    The first and most important thing for people to realize, I think, is that
    "safety" is an illusion at best.  It comes down to the understanding that of
    course all those lumps in your mattress are uncomfortable, and that under
    your mattress is the first place a burglar looks.  So, you do the best you
    can, knowing that while there is no place which can truly be called "safe,"
    it is possible to hedge your bets -- and that a bank is one of the least
    safe places to put money.  Indeed, whatever lack of "safety" there is in a
    bank, it is compounded by the total lack of any privacy or even control over
    your own property.  The worst security available in a home is better than
    that.

    It has been suggested by some that the best thing to do with one's
    negotiable property, be it frns or gold or silver or whatever, is to buy the
    best, most secure safe you can afford, put it in the most secure area
    of your home, and then store your wealth under a tarp in the parking lot.  I
    disagree, but you get my point about hedging bets.  A good, heavy safe is a
    good idea, I think, but not just because of the potential for burglary --
    even more importantly, a properly designed safe will also protect the
    contents for a period of time against fire, which is a greater likelihood
    than a talented safecracking burglar.  I would also locate it in an area
    protected by locked doors whenever you are not home or when you are asleep.
    The idea is not that the locked doors will stop anyone, but only that it
    will slow a burglar down and increase his chance of being detected.  Burglar
    alarms also are good when you can afford them, as is a noisy dog.  I would
    also recommend firearms training relating to home defense, to give you an
    edge against the scumbag who points a gun at your wife and tells you to open
    the safe -- you don't want an intruder to gain that kind of advantage before
    you stop him.

    As far as making frns work for you; in my view, they can't.  The best and
    worst you can do with frns is acquire more debt for yourself and your
    countrymen.  I am not a licensed financial counselor, and this is not
    advice, but I believe the *only* reasonably safe investment these days which
    need not violate my right to privacy is precious metals, including firearms.
     To my knowledge, collectible firearms have never, ever, decreased in value.
     Unfortunately this type of investment does not
    capitalize industry and improve the economy, but I don't think anything will
    do so in a substantive manner (not leading to more debt for our descendants)
    under the current fraudulent monetary system.

    In any event, I think no investment program should begin until you have six
    months supply of negotiable on hand to live on in a time of (personal)
    crisis.  Some patriot groups, including my own, have the capability of
    purchasing precious metals (not firearms) as agents of the member, with
    privacy protected.  I recommend staying away from those who offer to keep
    your property "on account;" we learned the hard way that doing so still
    makes us a "third party," so we no longer do that.

    You watch; the FED's reduction of the prime lending rate to 3.5% may or may
    not turn the economy around; the stock market this last week indicates that
    it probably did -- if so, the economy is going to come roaring out of this
    recession right into the worst inflation you've seen since pre-WWII Germany.
     And when they try to catch it, by increasing the interest rate again,
    they'll find it either doesn't slow down at all or it collapses even faster
    than it did this time -- and when that happens, well, how much lower than
    3.5% do you think they can go to try and prop up the frn with more and more
    future debt for our children?  Sooner or later, their adjustments run out of
    travel, and 'later' is very nearly here.

    FS> You and Arch mistook the fact that I don't agree with your assesments
    FS> of the value of gold or Archs global banksters conspiracy theories as
    FS> evidence that I was in lockstep with our nefarious gvt.

    Well, I think you're right about most of that.  However, I think you are
    wrong about one aspect of it:  you don't know it yet, but we weren't
    mistaken.

    Until the monetary system gets back on a solid, substantive footing, where a
    growing economy does not result in growing debt, there isn't a darned thing
    you or I or anyone else can do about "our nefarious gov't" short of kicking
    a$$ and taking names -- and ultimately, unless the monetary system is
    restored, even *that* isn't going to do it.  The reason is that until we get
    our lawful money back, it isn't "our" government -- it's "theirs."  The
    gov't doesn't do what the U.S. Constitution tells it to do, and it doesn't
    do what we tell it to do (unless it damages us and benefits them); instead,
    it does what the banksters tell it to do.

    "Where the people fear government you have tyranny; where the government
    fears the people, you have liberty."  The government will never fear the
    people as long as the banksters control the economy.

    Message: 80893
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 12/28/91  Time: 02:02:16

    You are an interesting writer to be sure.  Much of what you say goes over my
    head.  I do not have a clear picture of what you describe in all of your
    messages.  However the last paragraph in your previous message has that
    certain ring to it although it would be even better if there was no fear
    involved.  The road to 'wakeup' is long and hard and frought with all sorts
    of disasters.  Thus is the life of a human animal, planet earth, circa
    1992.