### Apollo BBS Archive - April 13, 1990

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 64724
    Author: Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: NUDE GIRL V
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 19:02:32

    Why don't you want to bring your Ranch Rifle along to the GT, Cliff?  I
    got the impression you thought that somebody might take your picture with
    it and use it to prove you were a "gun nut".  But that doesn't make
    sense.  Gun nuts don't use Ranch Rifles.  Everybody who complains about
    "gun nuts" knows what kind of guns they use.  They use bad guns.  Bad
    guns are constructed entirely from metal and plastic and are black and
    gray.  They are inelegant, with all kinds of weird high-tech shapes and
    lots of projecting screws and buttons, sometimes a wicked-looking spiky
    thing jutting out the front, and always a big long box sticking down in
    front of the trigger.  The black guns with the very curved boxes are
    especially dangerous, because Communists and Arab terrorists use those.
    You can tell just by looking at a bad gun how dangerous it is.  Only a
    nut would want to own one, because they have no sporting uses; they're
    only for killing people.  And bullets from bad guns are far more lethal
    than bullets from good guns.

    Good guns are more streamlined, and they have nice polished brown wood on
    them.  Good guns have been around for generations.  They look familiar
    and friendly.  Great-Grandad used to hunt buffalo with them, and the
    cavalry used them when they galloped up to rescue you from the Injuns.
    Good guns look very much like that Ranch Rifle (as long as you don't fit
    a long magazine on it).  Yeah, I know some nut used one to wipe out a
    bunch of people in Canada, but the people who are most up in arms about
    that probably couldn't recognize a Ranch Rifle from a revolver anyway.

    Message: 64725
    Author: Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Previous message
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 19:07:21

    I DID put "gun drivel" in the subject line, but there must be a
    communications fault on my modem or something, because the letters seem to
    have gotten mixed up.  I hope Roger didn't go ahead and read it expecting
    something about ladies without any clothes on, because I'm sure he'd be very
    disappointed.  Anyway, we seem to have succeeded in making a gun nut out of
    Roger now, so I guess it doesn't matter.  :-)

    Message: 64726
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: War!
    Subject: Kid petting
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 19:45:13

    What's all this nonsense about kid petting?

    If someone want to pet a baby goat I don't see ANY reason why this should be
    prohibited.  It this DARN government taking away one more of our rights.

    I'm very surprised that the zoo hasn't said something yet.  The next thing
    you know they'll get rid of all pets and make you put a fence around your
    pool.

    E. Lattella

    Message: 64727
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: gordon/nude drivel
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:05:29

    I kept looking for the nude drivel but all I saw was gun drivel. A
    fine waste of my time.

    Message: 64728
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Shootout
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:27:19

       Since my wife and most of the others would be able to attend on the 28th
    of April I think we should plan on it then. I am sorry that Beau won't be
    available then, but we can always have another one soon (assuming we survive
    this one).
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 64729
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Shootout!
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:48:55

    Go ahead and plan on the 28th.  Have fun!

    Message: 64730
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/your posts
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:54:11

    I skimmed them, been to under-the-weather to pay attention to them.

    Initial reaction: Evangelical Xtians use a Bait-and-Switch tactic

    Message: 64731
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/tt
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 20:54:28

    So, seconds, hours, etc. exist. What are they?

    Message: 64732
    Author: John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: English
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 21:30:41

    What this country needs is a good drive towards literacy among kids. Enough
    of this petting nonsense! Teach them the parts of speech and the uses of
    pronouns! Each year our high schools graduate an army of functionally
    illiterate people who go into the job market and find they are qualified for
    minimum wage labor. Even Rod, who feels sorry for the underpaid, has trouble
    with the English language . (The object of the preposition takes the
    objective case, not the nominative.) If we could teach English and grammar
    from Kindergaten to 4th grade, and review it from then on, we'd get a bunch
    of young adults who could learn math and science and maybe compete with the
    Japanese and the Germans.   They should also learn how to field strip the
    M-16 and lay down cover fire in three round bursts.  But English should be
    primary.  Also, Ann O is very sexy. Is she more than 13?

    Message: 64733
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon Little?
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:02:44

            I don't have a 'Ranch Rifle'....  I said I had a 'Ranch filer'...
    You all know that is the tool for keeping the barbed wire points sharp!
    And you are correct, I do not wish to be photographed, that is why I will
    not be there on the 21st or the 28th.  Besides, them things scare the snot
    out of me!

            Anyone for a PIZZA GT on the 28th?

                            FLOWER POWER!

                                                    i

    Message: 64734
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/64723
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:14:21

    RW: "If petting had been illegal when you were 11-13 would you be considered
         a criminal?"

    Nopers.

    Message: 64735
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beau/64730
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:20:57

      First of all, I sympathize with your condition, and I hope you enjoy a
    speedy recovery.
      However, I would ask that you capture those posts and print them out or
    save them or something (that is, if you think they might scroll off before
    you are well enough to respond).
      I am not boasting, but I did spend a good amount of time thinking out and
    researching my response to your initial post. Therefore, I would appreciate
    an equally thought-out response from you. Trust that, as soon as you are
    better, I am going to press you for more than a "one-liner" response. I
    know you are an intelligent individual, and we can make this discussion
    interesting as long as neither of us becomes condescending.

       BTW: That Be Bop Deluxe CD that showed in my catalog, never shipped from
    the record label. As far as I know, it still doesn't exist.

    Message: 64736
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ranch refil
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 22:51:21

    What a wimp.

    Message: 64737
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: shotguns
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 23:19:46

    As for penetraton, it depends on whether you are using shot or slugs.

    Message: 64738
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: James/kids
    Date: 04/12/90  Time: 23:25:34

    Hear! Hear!  After all, we're all creatures of the Earth.  (watch for this
    one in the next thirty years or so)

    Message: 64739
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ranch Lifer
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 00:14:26

            Refill has TWO 'L's dork!

            LIFER , FLIER, FILER

                    But never ever did I mean to say 'RIFLE'

                            i

    Message: 64740
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: various
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 01:50:01

    Cliff (aka "i"): "Refill" does not have TWO 'LL's.  If it did, it would be
    "refillll."  (Two double-"L"s equals 4 Ls.  Dork!)

    Daryl:  Those were good messages.  I have a lot to say, but will take the
    opportunity, as you did, to organize my thoughts beforehand.

    Steve Carls:  Are you studying Ameslan, or are you trying to offend all the
    deaf Apollo users out there?  Instead of blank space, use the Garrett
    Morris approach...

    John Cummings:  Do you really think the U.S. Army during WWII consisted
    mostly of gun nuts?  I'd like to see some statistics about how many trained
    soldiers were already adept gun-owners.

    Paul Savage:  You should write Hallmark cards.

    Melissa Dee:  Petting at age 14 or under should be illegal.  Not because of
    the age per se, but because they simply do not know what they are doing.
    Inexperienced petters should not be allowed to pet, PERIOD DOT.  ("...My
    daughters both know how to pet...every weekend I take them out to the
    petting range...")

    Cliff (again):  Let's have a PIZZA GT.  Yay.  Is it OK if I bring my
    camcorder?  Thanks.

    Message: 64741
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mr. Mann
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 02:22:52

    No, I don't think they will ever have Sam grow up.  He gets too good of
    rating for them to try and change him.  However, they are coming up on their
    last season.  It'll be interesting to see what they do to all the
    characters.  I haven't been paying much attention to the real time show but
    I should be able to catch up during the summer.
    I too prefer the earlier reruns but because of the Sam and Diane
    relationship rather than for Coach.  I don't particually like the Woody
    character though, either.  It's hard for me to find humor in stupidity, I
    guess, since I see it everyday at ASU.

    Message: 64742
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Palo Verde
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 03:14:08

    The following messages are quotes and paraphrasings from the 4-12-90
    Republic article, and from a book called DOUBLESPEAK, by William Lutz,
    subtitled "How government, business, advertisers, and others use language to
    deceive you."

    Message: 64743
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: News Today
    Subject: the NRC
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 03:15:44

    It should come as no surprise that federal regulators from the Nuclear
    Regulatory Commission decided not to fine Palo Verde, despite the fact
    that the head of the utilities division of the Arizona Corporation
    Commission has said that "The fact that there's no fine is inconsistent
    with what they found . . . the report doesn't seem to pull any punches,
    but the action seems to."  He also said that a financial penalty seems in
    order because of the severe safety implications.  Three instances were
    found within four months during which access to high radiation areas were
    left, according to the NRC, "open, unoccupied, and unguarded."  NRC's
    regional director and a top radiation regulator told  Palo Verde management
    during a closed-door meeting March 30 that access to those areas was
    "unacceptable and was in need of immediate improvement."  Despite these
    statements, found in minutes of the meeting which were made available
    Wednesday, an NRC spokesman said that the violations this time were not
    that serious.  A memo from the director of the NRC's radiation safety and
    safeguards division said, "We urge that attention be directed toward
    improving personnel performance to ensure the safety of licensed activities
    is maintained."

    Note the wording of this last statement.  Despite the fact that Palo Verde
    personnel have failed to correct longstanding problems of controlling
    access to these sensitive areas, the NRC director talks of "ensuring that
    safety is *maintained*.

    How is it that, despite the 1975 Sunshine Act, which requires that all
    meetings of governmental bodies be open to the public and that written
    records of the meetings be kept, the NRC is holding closed-door meetings?
    In 1985 the NRC amended its Sunshine Act regulations so that it could meet
    in private "nonmeeting gatherings" without written records of what took
    place in such "non-meetings."  Members of the NRC argued that closed
    meetings fostered "congeniality" and that open meetings tended to have a
    "chilling effect" when it came to testing ideas among its members.  So the
    NRC decided that its general discussions, technical briefings, and "brain-
    storming" sessions *about safety* were not meetings as defined by the
    Sunshine Act.
    In a 1988 series of articles on the problem plagued Oyster Creek nuclear
    power plant in New Jersey, reporter David Vis of "The Press" in Atlantic
    City discussed the double-speak of the NRC.  NRC inspectors never say
    they've discovered machinery prone to breaking down; they say that "a
    failure mode has been identified."  Equipment doesn't fail, fall apart,
    crack, explode, or disintegrate; it "fails to meet functioning criteria as
    per design requirements and specifications."  NRC personnel would never say
    that a particular plan, action, or procedure was a bad idea, unsuccessful,
    wrong, or just a plain waste of time; they say that "management attention
    and initiatives to meet and address these concerns have not been entirely
    successful."

    The Oyster Creek nuclear power plant is located in the middle of a densely
    populated area.  In case of a severe accident, the design of the plant is
    such that, in the words of the NRC, it would allow "immediate high
    consequences," meaning radioactive contamination to people living downwind.
    The containment system at the Oyster Creek plant was designed to "absorb the
    energy release of a maximum credible accident involving the rupture of the
    reactor coolant system," according to a plant systems description prepared
    by the plant operator.  But the list of "maximum credible" accidents did not
    include a complete loss of coolant and emergency coolant, a failure of
    safety systems, operator error, core damage, or meltdowns, because the NRC
    believed the chance of any of these accidents occurring was "incredible."
    In 1982 the Energy Department and the NRC spent $10,000 for a "Witness and
    Media Skills Clinic" designed to teach employees how to answer questions
    from reporters and members of Congress, especially during an emergency
    situation.  Participants were told to give the "impression that things are
    going well" and to "avoid embarrassment."  They were asked "what position
    do you want the public to hear?" and were also told how to "handle
    questions for which I don't want to give an answer," while still managing
    to "look good." One participant was a Three Mile Island contractor executive
    who acknowledged that TMI radiation detectors had malfunctioned and were
    potentially dangerous.  If talking to the manufacturer he would say that the
    devices had been "very misleading."  But "if the critic is anti-nuke," he
    would say that "these are radiation monitors, not safety-related equipment,
    and therefore not required to operate correctly under accident conditions."

    The NRC uses similar double-speak when counting accidents at nuclear power
    plants and reporting them to Congress.  In one report, the NRC counted as
    one "abnormal occurrence" accidents at nineteen different reactors.  How do
    nineteen accidents become one accident?  Since the nineteen reactors all
    had the same design flaw, and since the NRC counts "generic" problems such
    as design flaws built into many different reactors as one problem, the
    "abnormal occurrence" caused by this design flaw was really only one
    accident, even though it occurred at nineteen nuclear power plants in
    different locations throughout the country.

    (Note: if you really consider yourself a cynic, I suggest you pick up a copy
    of this book; you might be surprised at your own naivete.

    Message: 64747
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 06:22:37

     Yes, my friend, you heard me right. It seems that the more the government
    gets involved in the lives and functions of the people, the more screwed up
    things get.
     As of right now, I wouldn't go so far as to abandon my rights to speak in
    primary elections by joining the Libertarian party, but I do, and will
    continue, to voice my opinions where I think they might do some good. I have
    no qualms about contacting representatives in city, state or federal offices
    when I feel a wrong has been done, (or a right for that matter), and seeking
    redress or change through the system. To join what is presently such a small
    minority is, to me, too much of a sacrifice, one I am not yet willing to
    make.

    Message: 64748
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 06:31:01

     What do you think qualifies me to write Hallmark cards?
     Does the job pay well?

    Message: 64749
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak/Posts
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 07:05:15

    I agree. I will be looking forward to your response.

    Message: 64750
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/Hallmark/U & Me
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 07:09:18

    We could be a team. Watch, check this out:

           I did something
           I shouldn't have
           And now our love's in limbo
           I hope I didn't
           Break your heart
           By sleeping with that bimbo.
           PLEASE FORGIVE ME

      (Little birdies on the front, lavender script on blue stock, $1.75)

    Message: 64751
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: cheers/last season?
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 07:40:17

    I hadn't heard that this would be the last season. I like the Diane/Sam
    relationship better than the Sam/nobody relationship that exists now.
    Many of the characters have become caricatured, such as Norm's character.
    Mebbe it is a sign of the end. Sigh. Well, anyway there are the reruns.

    Message: 64752
    Author: John Groseclose
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak, again. . .
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 17:00:06

       As per your little comment to Melissa about petting:

    "Inexperienced petters should not be allowed to pet, PERIOD DOT."

    How would one get experience? Go out and find a trained, licensed petting
    instructor?  I for one would like to know how much such an instructor
    would be paid, or would it be strictly volunteer?  Would there be new
    laws regulating the licensing of said instructors, and also the eligibility
    of the students?

       John

    Message: 64753
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 13-year-old love
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 17:41:43

    I agree with Zak. Allowing "people" under 14 to experience the other sex
    will only lead to things like this recent shooting of a 13-year-old girl by
    her 14-year-old boyfriend.

    Message: 64755
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John G.
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 18:55:07

    Hey, I remember you!

    Message: 64756
    Author: John Groseclose
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 13-year-old love...
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 19:21:21

    Beau, I don't know about you personally, but at 14 I was a member of
    the "petters."  I don't see where anyone but those involved, or possibly
    the parents of those involved, could have room to make judgement.

    As for the 14-year-old that shot his girlfriend, I haven't seen any
    evidence that it was anything other than a possibly psychotic youngster
    "playing" with a gun he never should have been allowed access to in the
    first place.

                   John

    Message: 64757
    Author: John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gun nuts/Zak
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 21:27:16

    Zak, WWII was extraordinary from this viewpoint: the American army had
    rifles built to shoot straight and tried to train soldiers to do so. With
    the M-1, a good soldier could "keep the enemy in his hole at 500 yards, hit
    him good at 400, kill him at 300, make it a head shot at 200, and at 100,
    call which eye to hit!" We were the only army in the world with that
    attitude, and it was a result of the fact that many American boys had .22s
    as they grew up, and learned to shoot. We were almost unique in this. Other
    armies (except the Germans, who prided themselves on marksmanship) were
    mostly young men who had never held a rifle before they were inducted, and
    they were trained not to shoot straight, but to lay down a "field of fire"
    as if squirting a hose. From this thinking developed the AK47, (designed by
    Anton Kalishnikov and accepted by the Russian army as standard infantry
    weapon in 1947.) This philosophy of combat depends upon masses of infantry
    and exacts grave losses.  The American army fell into this trap with the
    M-16, but is now modifying it to be a better weapon and to fire three round
    bursts, not as a "Squirt-gun."
            Why does no one comment on the dismal state of teaching of English
    in our schools?

    Message: 64758
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: English in schools
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 22:49:07

    Before I would worry about the state of the teaching of grammar in
    our school system, I would fix the school system and its agenda before
    I'd worry too much about that. If you are worried for your kids so much,
    why don't you teach them YOURSELF?
    "Ohh , well, I',m too BUSY.."
    Parents seem to quick to judge the school... they seem to think it is the
    schools responsibility in its entirety to foster their kids.
    Somewhere the parents take this attitude and it bleeds into other aspects
    of the childrens upbringing. The focus isn't on the parent, it's on the
    school system.
    Throw money at the problem .... but it hasn't gone away.

    And it wont until the brain dammaged idiots who have the kids learn that
    having kids also bears the responsibility of educating them properly.

    You can't BUY education and you can'y BUY and upbringing....you work on it.

    Quit bitching about the schools!

    Message: 64759
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: schools
    Date: 04/13/90  Time: 23:36:03

    They are mostly just memorization clinics, with a healthy dose of
    repression.

    Message: 64760
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beau/seconds, hours
    Date: 04/14/90  Time: 02:49:12

    An hour is 1/24th of the earth rotation period.  A minute is 1/60th of an
    hour and a second.....just wait a sec.....I'll be right back

    Message: 64761
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John/english
    Date: 04/14/90  Time: 02:52:31

    That's my fault.  The last year I took english was in the eighth grade but I
    was too busy trying to have fun.  I'm learning a bit at a time.  Todd Reese
    has helped me with some of my problems but I think that when he found out he
    was helping me, he quit...ha, ha.  "Oh well", as one famous Apolloite once
    said.

    Message: 64762
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/criminal
    Date: 04/14/90  Time: 02:54:18

    Well, if it had been illegal when I was that age I would have been sent to
    Alcatraz.  Ah, fond, fond memories.

    Message: 64763
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: 64759/Hans Glans
    Date: 04/14/90  Time: 03:06:27

    Great statement.  Would you mind if I quote you.....on MANY silk-screened
    t-shirts.

    By the way, Zak thought up an idea for a t-shirt slogan and for that he will
    receive 25 cents for every shirt sold.  The slogan:

                    Taxation without representation is tyranny.

                    Taxation with representation ain't so hot either.

    Great job Zak, may it earn you millions.