### Apollo BBS Archive - October 26 - 28, 1989

    Message: 61719
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bufeo
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 20:26:15

    I have always felt that I am a female porpoise trapped in the body of a male
    human.  However, I am attracted to female porpoises.  Does that make me a
    lesbian?

    Message: 61720
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 21:26:07

    No, this means that you are insane.

    Message: 61721
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ann??
    Date: 10/24/89  Time: 21:57:17

    What was that about playing with the dog
    ????????????????????????????????????????

    Message: 61722
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 02:39:52

    I think that you got him excited, Ann.

    Message: 61723
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 05:50:41

    I did not know that you kept your dog in the refer.

    Message: 61724
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 06:18:06

    Re: "You made my day!"
    Gee, Bob, I thought you knew that I liked you all along!

    Message: 61725
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob T.
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 06:21:55

     Re: all the Ann,Ann,Ann; Paul, Paul, Paul stuff.....
     I think we agreed at the pie GT that the BBS needed some more controversy
    to get things stirred up, and since we are usually at odds about something,
    I guess this is just our way of showing exasperation with each other's
    views.
     Actually, if I saw Annie, I would give her a big hug. (If I could get by
    the smell of her nicotine addiction, that is.)

    Message: 61726
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff Beck
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 06:24:01

     I guess I would call a boxing match entertainment (if blood sports is your
    thing) until the event reaches into the multi-million dollar range. Then I
    suppose it would qualify as news of sorts. At least for the sports section.

    Message: 61727
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Bakker
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 08:49:03

    I was really disappointed with the Bakker sentence.  It was too severe.  One
    could murder, rape, rob, etc. and not get sentenced to 45 years.  In fact
    you could attempt to assassinate the president of the USA and not get 45
    years.  You could sell top secret info to the Russians and not get 45 years.

    I think the reason Bakker got such a stiff sentence was because he claimed
    to be a Christian and had an organization that claimed to be Christian.  I
    use the word "claimed" because I don't want anyone jumping on me about
    whether he was a Christian or not.  If Bakker had been the chairman of a
    mega buck Realtor organization, he would not have gotten 45 years for sure!

    Message: 61728
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob on Paul
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 09:28:02

    Paul did give me a big hug at the GT and my 'smell' did not seem to affect
    him that badly. BTW - I enjoyed it!
    Re: 'Paul, Paul, Ann, Ann, etc. --- we're just trying to pound our points
    into each other's heads is all. Ha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61729
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob on Bakker
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 09:33:18

    I thought for once that a crook got what he deserved. But you're right in
    the point that murderers and rapists get off with less. There ought to be
    standard sentences for each offence and they inforce it to the hilt for all
    crimes. As it is - two people can rob a bank identically - one will get ten
    years and the other 2 years. Same for murder. Bakker will no doubt get his
    parole in 10 years. Bah, humbug! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61730
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Current [V]ote
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 17:13:17

            The recent earthquake in California has brought out some criticism
    of the news media.  Let's see how the users of Apollo feel about this media
    blitz.  Please pick the "CLOSEST" answer to your feelings.

    [A] The Media has done a fine job, (Great Journalism)
    [B] The Media reported it well, but then overdid it.
    [C] The Media sensationalized, giving the illusion there was more damage
        and death then there really was.  (Poor Journalism)
    [D] ? What earthquake??

    Poll results to date:
    [A] 5    [B] 8    [C] 5    [D] 2

    ==========================================================================
            Look at [B] & [C].... over [A] Why?
    [D] was a joke...what 2 dorks answered that one?

    If you are a $tatus user, PLEASE [V]ote.  If you are NOT a $tatus user,
    Why not?  $tatus is on SALE till the end of this month at only 1/2 price.
    That is only $6.00 for a full 12 months of Apollo $tatus!  50 cents per
    month.........

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61731
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 18:45:19

    What does nicotine addiction taste like?

    Message: 61732
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/61726
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 19:37:09

    Sure, announcing the winner of a big fight is news, just as announcing the
    damage and casualty toll of a quake is news.  But broadcasts of the fight,
    in whole or in part, are entertainment, just as broadcasts depicting trauma
    are intended as morbid entertainment, or at least an attractor of attention.

    Message: 61733
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James Hawley
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 19:42:42

    That's just the sort of response I'd expect from a bourgeois mind.  When are
    you going to get past your parochialism, your prejudice of people who are
    different from yourself, whose preferences you may not understand?  We are
    all creatures of the Earth, men and porpoises, and you should not stand in
    judgement.

    Come on, people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try and
    love one another right now.

    Message: 61735
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Bob/Sentencing
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 21:36:09

      Squeaky Fromm got a life sentence for her attempted assassination of
    President Ford, which she is still serving after 14 years and one recent
    escape.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 61736
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Entertainment/Movies
    Subject: Trying Times
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 22:55:54

    I recommend that everybody try to catch these shows on PBS (Channel 8 here
    in Phoenix).  Tonight's (repeated on Saturday night) is called "The Hit
    List" and stars Geena Davis (and one of the guys from Animal House) in a
    strange little story about conspiracies.

    Message: 61737
    Author: Steve Evans
    Category: Bulletins
    Subject: BBSWEST BBS LIST
    Date: 10/25/89  Time: 23:21:13

    The BBSWEST Online Systems Phone Directory

    The BBSWEST directory is more than just
    another BBS list.  It is a complete, current,
    and comprehensive database of information on
    the local Phoenix online community.

    Plus BBSWEST provides utilities to create your
    own personal directories from the listing.
    You can extract certain types of systems and
    then have the selected systems converted right
    to the communications program you use.

    So try BBSWEST today.  The Online World is
    only a phone call away.

    Message: 61738
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Beck
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 00:16:41

    If you think you are indeed a dolphin of some sort, perhaps you should be
    dumped in the middle of the ocean and see how well your survive.  I do
    indeed understand that most people are different.  A comment was asked for
    and one was given.

    If you don't like the answer you shouldn't ask questions.

    Message: 61739
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: heh heh/Hawley
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 01:33:38

    You're such a flake, James.

    Message: 61740
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Trying Times
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 01:35:00

    I saw one about a maid who changed clothes in each room she cleaned.  Quite
    strange, but also amusing.  Buck Henry directed.

    Message: 61741
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Bob/Bakker
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 06:15:45

     I agree. In fact, I don't believe that any useful purpose can be served by
    putting the man in prison at all. If, in fact, all those people were
    defrauded by PTL, a more appropriate sentence would be supervied probation,
    with complete restitution being made to the "victims".
     Bakker sitting in a cell, with a $500,000 fine going into the government's
    coffers, does absolutely nothing for thhe benefit of those who were relieved
    of their money.
     Again, as I have advocated in the past, prison space should be reserved for
    those who are a danger to society. Jim Bakker, a relatively harmless little
    man, at least physically, rots in a cell while this monster who raped a girl
    and then cut her arms off runs loose in society. This is justice?

    Message: 61742
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject:  J.T.
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 06:21:44

     "What does nicotine addiction taste like?"
     That sonds like a loaded question James, but as I remember it, (and
    thank God that some memories fade!), it does carry a taste. Something like
    waking up in the middle of the night, coughing and hacking until it's
    gagging time, and then recognizing that distinct taste in your mouth that
    says you have just licked a dirty ash tray clean. Blahch!
     Since the poisons in tobacco also tend to kill the taste buds, wht it
    doesn't taste like is the pure pleasure of actually tasting what good food
    ought to taste like, but that's not responsive to your question, is it?

    Message: 61743
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul on Bakker
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 11:47:11

    You know, you have a good point there and believe it or not, you changed my
    mind! (gads, can this be me talking?) The prisons are full of people that
    don't belong there and the criminals get off with light sentences so they
    can make room for more. Bakker was fined a huge amount - his life as a
    preacher - on TV or other wise, is over. He's shamed. Probation for a long
    period would be good enough - like 10 years or so. It's not like he murdered
    or raped someone or even wielded a gun to get the people to contribute. So,
    like I said, I see your point and it's a good one. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61744
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bakker in Jail!
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 12:36:36

            I have to agree, Paul's post made good sense and I would much rather
    see a murderer or rapist in jail occupying Jim Bakkers cell.  What he did
    was not good, but the so called victims GAVE Bakker their money under their
    own free will.  You can't protect people from their own stupidity....
    right?  He should have been sentenced to do community work and to do
    restitution where ever he could.
            Justice is not always true moral justice...  A rapist who hurts
    people will walk, and a con artist will do time... ???

            Good Posts Paul, Ann and Bob...

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61745
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: In search of
    Subject: MIDI
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 16:33:32

    Does the MUSIC SIG have anything on it concerning Computer generated music,
    ie: Musical Instrument Digital Interface topics?

    Message: 61746
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:16:20

    Re:  "Squeaky Fromm got a life sentence for her attempted assassination"

    Yea.  I had forgot about that.  I was thinking of "what's his name" that
    tried to shoot Reagan.

    Message: 61747
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:18:46

    Re:  "$500,000 fine going into the government's
    coffers"

    Is that who gets it?  I was wondering.  It should go back to the people who
    gave it in the first place.  But that would be a tough job to figure out.

    Message: 61748
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:22:04

    Re:  "It's not like he murdered or raped someone"

    You forgot about poor Jessica!  And look what it did to her.  It turned her
    into a real pitiful person.  In fact, did you notice that she is putting
    on makeup in the same style that Tammy does?

    Message: 61749
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/Sqeaky
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:33:24

      You see, it makes a lot of difference whether you are doing Charles
    Manson's bidding or Jodie Foster's.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 61750
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bob/Jessica Hahn
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:54:28

    She didn't look too bad on CNN a couple of nights ago.  Actually I think Jim
    was happy to go to jail.  If I were married to Tammy, I might like prison
    better.

    Message: 61751
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Adkins
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 18:55:25

    Flake, eh?  My we're one to talk, aren't we?

    Message: 61752
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Hawley
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 20:40:49

    Well, it's all relative, after all.  I do know, however, that I don't
    respond to obviously humorous messages in an irrational, hostile manner.  I
    also don't arrange for people to call a "friend" of mine, record the
    conversation without his knowledge, attempt to entrap him with illegal
    suggestions, attempt to elicit information of a highly personal nature, and
    then play this recording to others, for entertainment.  Twice.

    Despite the fact that I responded to your Judas like behavior with a good
    deal of rage, I don't think you have any basis for judging yourself
    ethically superior to me.  So get off your high horse.

    I still get angry thinking about what you did, and given the fact that my
    response was limited to threats, I consider myself supremely forbearant.
    Evidently, you thought nothing of treating me like shit, and hopefully, you
    now understand the gravity of your acts.

    I have said nothing to you since using this BBS again, and personally, I
    would just as soon go on that way.  I will not just ignore idiotic, hostile
    remarks directed at me by YOU, however.  I resent your hostility, since you
    have no legitimate reason to be hostile to me (quite the reverse), and I
    find your self-righteousness galling, and not a little ironic.

    Message: 61753
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Last few?
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 21:24:11

            Now boys...or is that men?   I like the both of you guys...so let's
    just keep this to low roar.  There are problems between you two, this I can
    not help, but I will suggest you avoid commenting on each others posts.

            Please!?

            None of us are perfect... we all make mistakes (SysOps less than
    others), so let it go.  (Grin)

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61754
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Trust, etc.
    Date: 10/26/89  Time: 23:15:35

    OK, Apollo Users, I am the promoter for a new sideline of Apollo BBS.  We're
    going to sell 10% interests in a new business to the first 20 comers.  We
    expect the investment (yours for 10% of the business/profits) to cost around
    $50,000.

    We're going to make machine-lathed microchips.  The Japanese haven't even
    started on this work, yet!  We'll make a mint!

    (Now, for those who decided *not* to invest because I said I was selling 20
    different people/groups each a 10% interest, think about this: Jim Bakker
    didn't tell the fleeced that what he was selling he couldn't provide.  He
    was hoping like HELL that the 'time-sharers' were too old/infirm/poor from
    donating money to him that they wouldn't be able to visit Heritage USA)

    Message: 61755
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: MIDI
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 04:52:32

    There has been no discussion of MIDI on the Music Sig. You might try
    Madisound at (608) 836-9473. They have a selection of MIDI related files.

    Message: 61756
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/fines
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 06:15:36

     Assessed fines invariably go to the agency that levies them. They do
    nothing for those who have been wronged, and serve only tto increase and
    perpetuate what passes for a justice system. And again I say, real justice
    would be far better served if white collar criminals were required to make
    full restitution to their victims. Supervising such a program could be
    accomplished at far less cost than incarceration, as well, thus saving the
    already overburdened taxpaying public an appreciable amount of money.

    Message: 61757
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/poor Jessica?
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 06:16:48

     I hope you didn't bite the tongue you most assuredly had in your cheek when
    you wrote that!

    Message: 61758
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob on the $500.000
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 09:21:38

    My husband told me it cost millions for the state to prosicute Bakker and
    that money will go towards paying it back. Guess everybody lost a lot with
    him in the long run.  -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61759
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/Jessica
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 09:28:08

    In my opinion, she's worse than Bakker and that includes in morals too.
    NO ONE forced her to do a thing and through that episode, she has made lots
    of moolah - including her Playboy spread. She is now in the category of a
    non-star - didn't do a thing to deserve it, but is always spread all over
    the news. Guess sex and crime do pay to a certain extent eh? Zsa Zsa is also
    in this same category. You can't call her a star, but she's always in the
    headlines and as phoney as Jessica. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61760
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James/Tammy vs Jessi
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 09:29:41

    You've got a point there. Prison would be better. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61761
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Adkins
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 15:37:07

    You entire assumptions were incorrect in the first place.  You are paranoid,
    and can't understand reality.  You ask a stupid question and you expect
    everyone to chuckle at your massive wit.

    You don't seem to understand humor.  I fully admitted that my joke was in
    bad taste.  It was not planned as a joke, but got turned into one.  You
    *have* played practical jokes on me, but don't understand them when they are
    played on you.

    Your stupid conspiracy theories, are just that...  Stupid.  You had someone
    call me when I was at your house and say they were a police officer.  But I
    can take a joke.  You and I even planted the original THANG on Ann's lawn.
    You found it very humorous, so I know that you at least understand some of
    the concepts of humor.

    I was indeed your friend and felt very bad that you were hurt.  When someone
    told JT about the tapes and he started putting his little stupid messages
    up, I felt it has gone way too far.  I called you up and wanted you to come
    over so I could tell you that I was sorry.  But you had had your wisdom
    teeth out and you weren't feeling well.  Instead of waiting, I just told you
    on the phone.

    You answered by coming over with a baseball bat and threathening me.  Real
    understanding guy.

    You threatened people who were not even involved with the joke.  You sent
    vehement E-mail, threatening to KILL everyone who even knew about it.  Real
    manly, eh?

    Then 6 months after the incident you sent letters to Christian, Rod and me
    saying, that "I haven't forgotten", and promising harm.  Of course these
    were just little mind games trying to scare us.

    If you really thought that I was trying to blackmail you (Blackmail you for
    what?  I don't think you have anything I would want...), you should have
    contacted the police and filed charges.

    Again, I fully admit my guilt in the matter.  It was a dumb thing to do.  It
    wasn't planned, and it was done on the spur of the moment.  Admittedly the
    next day was a little more planned, but it was just following up on a joke.
    And it certainly wasn't funny.

    As for practical jokes....  Yes, I do think a little more when I think of
    one.  I think, "Is this person rational"?

    To CLIFF:  Do not zap these messages.  Obviously it's not something that you
    want to be brought out, but it's here, and it might as well stay here.

    Message: 61763
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James Hawley
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:22:54

    Let's examine the facts:

    You arranged to have two underage girls call me, and make sexual overtures.
    You arranged for them to ask questions which required intimate, and
    in some cases, potentially compromising answers.
    You recorded these conversations (to which you were not a party) without my
    knowledge or consent.
    When I voiced suspicions in this regard, they were continually denied.  In
    fact, I was accused of paranoia (this seems to be a favorite game of yours),
    and a continuous attempt was made to convince me of how cruel I was by
    making such accusations and refusing to take part in suggested activities.
    I repeatedly made it clear that I found these requests and questions
    painful.
    This happened on two separate occasions.
    You played these tapes for entertainment purposes among yourselves, and to
    others who knew me incidentally but were not involved directly in your
    "joke".
    You waited to tell me about this until quite some time later, after J.T.
    left teasing messages in Spanish, and you were afraid that I would get wind
    of what had gone on.

    Yes, I fail to understand the humor in any of this.  Whether or not you
    intended to blackmail me, (for money or anything else) is irrelevant.
    Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if you had a camera of microphone set up
    for even less wholesome purposes than blackmail.  No matter whether or not
    this was so.  There is no parallel between the jokes you allude to and your
    actions.
    One of the statements in your last message was libelous.  I never
    "threatened to kill everyone who even knew about it."  That is utterly
    preposterous, since I would have had to threaten half the users of Apollo,
    and not a few of my own friends and acquaintances that I have told about the
    experience.  I threatened the people who were directly involved, admittedly,
    with a good deal of vigour.  I also castigated those who had listened to
    these tapes and yet had not informed me, making them accomplices.  I never
    made specific threats against these incidental players, but sure, I thought
    they deserved something, and made that clear.
    If I were you, I would consider myself lucky.  I have never, directly or
    indirectly, damaged or stolen your property, or caused you physical harm.
    After what you did to me (the gravity of which you still refuse to
    acknowledge), I think you got off easy.

    As for asking a stupid question and expecting people to chuckle at my
    "massive wit", I think it is clear that you took the message seriously from
    the start, and now that you are embarassed for having done so, rather than
    admit what a boob you were, you accuse me of lacking a sense of humor.

    Message: 61765
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dog
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:48:42

    Re:  "We're going to sell 10% interests in a new business to the first 20
    comers."

    How much can I get for $1.98?

    Message: 61766
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: State Fair
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:53:08

    I went to the state fair yesterday and saw that they had petitions to sign
    for recalling Dennis, restoring Columbus Day, Stopping an increase on
    property tax, and limited terms of office for politicians.  I signed them
    all.  I love democracy!

    Message: 61767
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:55:00

    Re:  "My husband told me it cost millions for the state to prosicute
    Bakker"

    The same went for North.  And who gets stuck paying the bill?  Why the tax
    payers of course.

    Message: 61768
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 16:57:22

    Re:  "You and I even planted the original THANG on Ann's lawn."

    Hey Ann!  The truth is finally out!

    Message: 61769
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James Hawley
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 18:48:36

    Let's get a few other things straight, shall we:

    You claim, "it was not planned as a joke, but got turned into one."  What
    was it planned as, then, if not a "joke" (read vicious trick) ?  It was
    outrageous lies from the very start, and they were well scripted lies.
    Christian calls me up and the first thing she says, essentially, is "Hi,
    Mark, me and Eve are over at James Hawley's apartment drinking.  James has
    passed out.  Why don't you come over and have sex?"  Except that this is
    paraphrased.  Her exact words were in such an obviously contrived,
    unnatural, Hawleyesque style, it was clear that you had planned the whole
    thing out front.
    Not that this excuses either of them.  Christian sweetly denied all of my
    accusations, even when she was asking me highly personal questions with full
    knowledge that the answers would be played for others, for entertainment.
    Spill your guts to me, honey, so I can share the guffaws.

    You were never my friend.  I was simply someone to provide diversion when
    you became bored.  You always had a petty, jealous streak in you, and this
    was manifested on many occasions.  I remember the time we were out biking,
    and your front wheel fell off.  Well, my mom was nice enough to drive out
    and pick you up.  Instead of responding with gratitude, you made snippy
    comments about the fact that she drives a Cadillac, after she asked us to
    please be careful not to scratch the paint as we loaded your damaged bike in
    the car trunk.

    Even more outrageous is this martyred picture you paint of yourself.  You
    have yet to take responsibility for the seriousness of your actions and the
    serious consequences they engendered.  You claim to have called me on the
    phone because I wasn't feeling well, and you didn't want me to have to see
    you in person.  Well, this is pure crap, and you know it.  You had ample
    opportunity in the months that followed the incident to inform me in person.
     In fact, you and Christian, according to your own admission, came over one
    night ostensibly to invite me to go biking, but really to break the news.
    Well, we went biking, but you didn't tell me anything.  You know that the
    only reason you ever mentioned it to me was the fact that someone else was
    about to.

    Again, if this wasn't planned, and it wasn't funny, then why did you call
    back a second time a day later to do the same thing, and why do you call it
    a joke?  If it was clear after the first conversation that I was being
    injured (and I made it clear that I was, even though I had no idea that this
    injury would be compounded by taping these conversations and making them
    public), why did you call back a second time, if not to play more cruel
    tricks?  I think you are trying to mask your malice by calling it a
    practical joke.  A fairly common rationale, I believe.

    I have no sympathy for you, and in fact I despise you utterly.  You are a
    petty, backstabbing traitor, and what bothers you more than anything else is
    not your conscience, but the fact that I punished you for your transgression

    Eve, and particularly Christian, are no better.  It still galls me to think
    of the way Christian tried to make me feel guilty and tried to play on my
    sympathies in order to get me to answer her probing questions and make some
    sort of commitment :  "Oh, Mark, I couldn't sleep last night.  Why are you
    being so mean to me", &c., &c.

    It was my original conviction that Rod Williams was directly involved,
    because the second call was made from his shop, and because I heard his
    voice in the background, and because he never did like me, and shared some
    of the same, petty traits that you have , Hawley.  It is theoretically
    possible that I heard someone that sounded like Rod, and that he had no
    knowledge.  If I could know that for a fact, I would personally apologise to
    Rod, profusely.  At this point, I no longer care, even if he was involved.

    As for the rest of those involved, the people who heard these tapes and who
    knew what was going on but didn't tell me about it, you have my lifelong
    comtempt.  Particularly Nick Ianuzzi, the arrogant S.O.B., who refused to
    acknowledge his omission as even being negligent.  You're an
    asshole, buddy, and don't forget it!

    Message: 61772
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last few
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 19:54:59

    My, aren't we brave.

    This is all nonsense.  How did I script what Christian had to say?  She was
    indeed over here with Eve.  And it was not my idea to have her call you.
    She was BORED and wanted to talk with you.  I didn't even have your number.

    What in the hell would I gain from blackmailing you?  I am more than willing
    to have a GT and let everyone listen to the tapes.  If you can find anything
    more than a drunken girl flirting with a guy who she knew liked her, then
    you are correct.  Let me ammend that...  Christian didn't even know the
    initial tape was being made.  She did know the second one was.

    You stated on the tape that, "I know this is a practical joke of Hawley's".
    Are you a fool, then?  Don't you even believe your own comments?  As for
    whose voice was on the tape at the shop, it was either mine or Nicks.  Nick
    came in in the middle of the conversation, and we were talking in the back
    room.

    You say that I have no remorse for what I did.  You are blind.  I am indeed
    sorry for a bad practical joke.  But certainly not for your imagined harm to
    your ego.  Your warped mind will believe whatever it likes.

    Nick was at the shop when we played the second tape.  We all agreed that it
    had gone too far, and felt bad that your feelings were hurt.

    If ten people came out and said the same thing about the tape, you would
    just say that it was a conspiracy.  That no one can ever understand you.
    You're just too much above the normal person.  You have indeed threatened
    all of the people who heard the tape with bodily harm.  It is such a shame
    that person who so much potential can be so foolish.

    You also suggested that Christian strip me and dump by out by the pool.
    If you believed the conversation was genuine, that would have been a very
    cruel thing to do.

    Christian and I came by no more than a week after the initial phone call
    came.  We were worried that Christian had hurt your feelings.  And I told
    you on the phone because you wouldn't go to a movie (because of your dental
    work).  I *tried* to tell you in person, but you wouldn't go.

    You have also made phone calls late at night, and I not being home, you left
    messages irrationally accusing me of electronic surveilance of your house.
    I am beating a dead horse.  Your mind is indeed different from most.  But
    every assest has a liability.  Your liability happens to be paranoia.

    And again it was started as a joke.  I had just bought my answering machine
    and thought I would see if the record conversation feature would work.

    Christian never said she would have sex with you.  I guess you've never been
    in a social situtation where women flirt with you.  Liquor has certain
    effects on people.

    I was certainly your friend.  And I certainly enjoyed our bike ride and
    other activities.  I suppose that the only thing that I could have said
    about your moms car was that it was a 'boat'.  IE, very large.  I was in a
    great deal of pain, a chip of bone having broken off in my left shoulder.
    It would be pretty hard to intentionally insult someone who was helping me
    at a time of great need.

    And to clarify, the first tape WAS funny.  Hilarious, as a matter of fact.
    Not really you, but Christian flirting with you.  You certainly ACTED like
    you understood it was a joke.  The second one became a little too personal
    on your side, and I knew that you had been hurt.

    That certainly was not my idea of a good joke.  That is why I didn't tell
    you the day after.  I knew your feelings were hurt, and didn't want to make
    it worse.  Nick or David told JT and he started his jibes, and I felt it
    better to tell you myself.

    It's as simple as that.  Christian has tried to explain it to you, but you
    wouldn't listen.  I would be glad to send you a copy of the tapes and let
    you judge them for yourselves.  No more.

    Message: 61776
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mark/James
    Date: 10/27/89  Time: 23:01:55

            I know there was no script... I know Rod Williams knew nothing about
    it.... AND... I have known James Hawley for more years than you and I KNOW
    he has felt very bad about this...and is sorry.....  Mark, you are so
    upset...you refuse to see the truth.  You have convinced yourself there was
    this plot that never was.   The joke was in bad taste...but that is all it
    was.
            I as a third party...am very depressed to see two friends go at it.
    Speaking of 'friends'... James did consider you one, because he spoke highly
    of you and the bike rides.

            Sigh....  this is going nowhere...  I would gladly sit in on a
    meeting between you two!  Not to take sides, but to untie this twisted knot
    of confusion.

    P.S.  James humor at times is hard to understand....  I KNOW!

    Message: 61777
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mark/James
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 02:56:33

    Mark, I don't know you, (are you Jeff?  Why the hell are you logging on as
    Jeff Beck?  Never mind) but I would like to say this to you and James:

    GET THIS THING THE HELL OFF THE MAIN BOARD!

    James, I'd like to think that you're still the same caring person I knew
    (what seems like eons ago), and it is becoming increasingly difficult with
    Mark's posts.  Mark, you're beginning to sound like a vengeful maniac.  You
    both are sounding very petty and very, very stupid.  Please save my stupid
    misconceptions about what a nice person James is (and what a decent person
    you are, Mark) by getting this thing into private mail where it belongs.
    This board is beginning to read like a tabloid.

    Cliff, I think your judgement on leaving this on the main board and not
    moving the messages to private mail was a bad one.  There are some things
    that are better discussed elsewhere.

    Do the two of you (James and Mark) really want this to be the public
    spectacle it has become?  Your evident initial friendship is trashed now by
    the "publicity" if it wasn't by the intial argument.  It's a lot harder to
    kiss and make up in front of tens of people.

    HB

    Message: 61778
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James Hawley
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 03:43:45

    Look you idiot, how gullible to you think I am?  Or are you simply trying to
    save your reputation in front of your friends?
    It was perfectly obvious, contrasting Christian's normal speech patterns and
    idioms with those she used during these conversations, that she was both
    insincere and affectatious, and it's no coincedence that it sounded just
    like you.  First you claim that you have destroyed these tapes, now you not
    only demonstrate you were lying, you want to have a GT and play them some
    more?  Haven't you learned anything?  I am not possessed of inexhaustible
    patience.
    Sure, I'm a fool.  I'm a fool for not sticking with my initial suspicions.
    I'm a fool for yielding to the manipulations of a young attractive girl.
    I have never said that no one can understand me.  I have never said that I
    am "too much above the normal person".  These projections are part of your
    basic insecurity around me, and they say a lot about your motivations.
    Conspiracy is such an emotion laden word.  A negative word.  I have never
    said there was any conspiracy; I have said that the basic nature of the act
    was malicious, not humorous, and it was.
    I never suggested that Christian strip you and dump you by the pool.  I
    made the statement that you should be stripped and dumped in the hall; a
    rhetorical statement prompted by the suspicion (well founded) that you were
    listening.
    Now you say that it started as a joke.  In a previous message, you claimed
    that it did not start as a joke, but became one.  Now you have the audacity
    to suggest that the whole thing was a test of your answering machine.

    You seem to jump from excuse to excuse, from rationalisation to
    rationalisation.  I interpret these gross inconsistencies and rediculous
    stories as evidence of the tenuousness of your position.
    Christian most certainly asked for sex.  If you have edited these tapes to
    remove any suggestion of this, it is irrelevant.  I most certainly know the
    difference between flirtation and explicit sexual invitation.  You are a
    liar, and we both know it.
    Yes, it would be pretty hard to intentionally insult someone who was helping
    you, but you managed just the same.  I recall your behavior not as ordinary
    if strained, but as taciturn,  and actively ingrateful.  I had to
    prompt you to offer thanks, and even then it was done with reluctance and
    surliness.
    I am not paranoid, despite your fervent desire to paint me in this light.  I
    see no evidence of remorse; your attitude, even when confronted with a
    baseball bat, was one of cavalier indifference.  I do not accept "Geez,
    can't you take a joke?" as a sincere apology or evidence of remorse.  You
    are a deeply disturbed and malicious individual, and your half-hearted
    attempts at reconciliation are only an attempt to make your actions seem
    less dastardly in the eyes of your friends and peers.

    Message: 61781
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 04:10:07

    Thanks for your concern.  But I'm afraid friendship has blinded you to
    certain unpleasant truths concerning James Hawley and his pathological
    attitudes and motivations.

    I appreciate a wide range of humor, from the obvious and gentle, to the
    subtle and sardonic, to the eccentric and off the wall.  Primitive humor and
    sophisticated humor.  I appreciate humor at my own expense, as well as humor
    at the expense of others, (if deserving), and humor that injures no one to
    any degree.  Yet I do not see humor in this incident involving, primarily,
    James Hawley and Christian Williams (and her sister).  Isn't that strange?

    Message: 61782
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ms. Brown
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 04:16:08

    Sorry you have been offended.  I have no apologies for destroying any
    illusions you might entertain regarding James Hawley's nature.  It's good to
    pull your head out of the sand and get a breath of fresh air every once in a
    while, anyway.
    You must admit that it was not I who stirred up the pot.  Nevertheless, I
    have no regrets that I dumped the pot over, the better to examine its
    contents.  Tune in tomorrow for another episode.  Who needs General
    Hospital?

    Message: 61783
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/petitions
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 05:29:46

     Yes, but how did you enjoy the fair? (smile)
     I went for two of the petitions, dealing with the tax increase and terms of
    office, but not the other two. The advocates of Columbus day, which is fine
    with me, have associated themselves with that bigoted crazy man who only
    wants to kill the MLK day because his misguided prejudice fires the flames
    of his hate for blacks. As for DeConcini, his personal involvements with
    Keating and his wife's investments aside, I think that he has done a
    reasonably good job for the people of Arizona. If the majority of the people
    disagree, the time to get rid of him is at the next election, not through a
    lengthy and costly recall procedure.

    Message: 61784
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 05:38:16

     I have to agree with Heather Cliff. This personal problem between James and
    Mark would be better held in private mail. Couldn't the rest of us be spared
    the gory and boring details?

    Message: 61785
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob on THANG
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 06:34:20

    Yes, the truth is finally out. I knew James was one of them, but I didn't
    know or have any idea it was Mark too.
    It is sad to see two old friends fighting so harshly. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61786
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Mark/James
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 06:56:44

    I disagree with Ms. Brown and Paul. I feel James is a long standing member
    of this BBS and has a right to put his posts where ever he wants. He has not
    broken any rules. Their fight might be a pretty heated one, but if you make
    them go to another place, then I feel the rest of us can't be free to have a
    heated arguments either. You, me and Paul have had some pretty heated one's
    too, yet you did not censor us. Personally, I resent Ms. Brown's
    attitute in acting like she owns the place and I ask 'who the hell is she'
    to dictate? There has be a lot said on the BB that I didn't like or agreed
    with - but I can always press the 'S' key for skip anytime! So, as long as
    James and Mark do not disobey the basic rules, I say let them stay! If they
    lose this freedom, then we all do. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61787
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Paul on MLK
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 09:30:30

            You can kiss up to that jerk MLK all you want..  But I do not think
    he deserves a holiday in his name.  There are other blacks much more
    deserving than he.  The holiday was done the first time illegally so Babbit
    would look good for political reasons.  It is unfair how you call Mr Mecham
    such dirty names and he is not here to defend himself. You plainly make me
    ashamed of the name calling and the superior judgmental attitude you
    display. Another name for it would be 'bigot'.  Re: a person that who
    holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, OPINION, etc.  A
    narrow-minded, intolerant person.  by Webster unabridged!

            Have you noticed the greedy reason the MLK day was past?  You
    bleeding heart WHITES are so determined to give the Blacks a holiday to
    cover up your guilt, that you have painted that bigoted, rapist idiot as
    a saint.
            I as an American citizen, am offended that such a political sham was
    used to perpetrate such a phony holiday.....  I stand with Mecham on this
    issue!
            Funny how the questionable money involved with DeConcini was a much
    larger sum than that of Mr Mecham.  Funny that Mr Mecham told the truth and
    DeConcini has openly LIED..... And people like Paul keep eating out of his
    hand.   DeConcini told me that he believed in the right to own and carry
    arms....  Now he is turning that right into "the right to own and carry
    sporting goods"...and not arms to defend ones self from tyranny

    Message: 61788
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul/Heather
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 09:45:11

            The two of you want me to ZAP their posts from the PUBlic board
    where THEY choose to put them?  You want me to squelch their right to
    freedom of speech?....  Look Paul/Heather....  this SYSOP does not infringe
    on that right to please you two!
            That problem happens to involve others on Apollo...and just not two
    people....  Private mail could not accommodate that very well in MY opinion.
    Thank GOD, Paul does not run Apollo... or nothing could be said freely or
    openly without unjust censorship.
            I am not pleased they are arguing, but it has been festering in them
    for well OVER a year and just maybe they will get it out of their system if
    they air it publicly. I think they are both over blowing it out of
    proportion, as neither one is as bad as the other describes.   If hostility
    is kept within, it is more damaging than if released.  Who knows, they may
    even become good friends again....

            Let them have their say!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=**=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61789
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann Oudin..
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 09:53:30

            Why THANK you Dear.....   I posted my post on freedom of speech
    before I got to your wonderful post saying pretty much how I feel about this
    subject.  This is the one thing that shines on Apollo...  The RIGHT to POST!
    And you have the RIGHT to [S]kip!  (Get your cake and eat it too!)

            Thank you Annie!   You made me feel good that someone appreciates
    that freedom.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61790
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/last
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 10:38:34

    Way to go Cliffy. Viva Apollo! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61791
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Hawley/Adkins
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 10:47:06

            How about posting a transcript of the tape then having a
    [V]ote on which of you guys is a psycho?  Winner gets a free trip
    to 24th Street and Van Buren.
            Whaddya say, Cliff?

    Message: 61792
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill Burkett
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 10:56:07

            I am getting curious as to what that "TAPE" held that has made these
    two users so upset.  Maybe a transcript is in order.... but that is up to
    them at this point.  Privacy has to be considered......

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61793
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Compromise a Right?
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 11:07:13

                       Compromise Rights?

            I have heard the argument that the RIGHT to own and carry arms be
    limited to 'SOME' arms...  maybe for sporting purposes?   Hunting rabbits
    only, or maybe Quail! (not the Vice President)
            Okay, I can live with that...IF.....
    The right to Religion is adjusted to be the right to attend 'SOME' churches
    that are okayed by the Government.  Maybe to worship the Congress God!
            And....
    The right to freedom of the press to only print 'SOME' news...such as the
    Sunday funnies if they do not make a political or racial statement.

            How does the above sound... Fair?  yes, since that is what a lot of
    you Anti-Weapon/Gun/Assault implement people want.  Let's compromise all our

    RIGHTs!  We ARE heading that way folks..... just keep making stupid laws.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61794
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jim Bakker
    Date: 10/28/89  Time: 12:46:21

    I doubt that a murderer or rapist would be a better occupant of Jim Bakker's
    MEDIUM-LOW security prison cell.

    Bulletin Board command ([H] for help):EC

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:Various

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:Kim Sue Lia Perkes is the best Religious Editor the Arizona Republic ever
     2:had.
     3:
     4:Jeff Beck and James Hawley should have a good laugh together and erase all
     5:the bullcrap from their memory banks.  In the long term it would be better
     6:for everyone who is concerned, mental health included.
     7:
     8:Whoever said that true freedom of speech is allowed on this particular
     9:system should wash their mouth out with soap.  It simply does not exist.
    10:Although it did long ago.

Content of this site is © Mark Firestone or whomever wrote it. All rights reserved.