### Apollo BBS Archive - April 21, 1990

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 64895
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Lewis gun
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 03:27:09

    Wasn't that the thing used in "Predator" to blast everything in camera
    range?  It also seemed to set everything on fire, including people.  No
    doubt because it fires bullets so fast.

    Message: 64896
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: $tatus users only
    Subject: Where is Z.W. ?
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 03:28:36

    Message: 64897
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: $tatus users only
    Subject: Z.W.
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 05:02:43

    Didn't you hear the first time?  Cliff said "In his pants."

    But *I* know differently...

    Message: 64898
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Vote
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 05:05:50

    I'll assume that you all who picked "I'm not registered Democrat or
    Republician" are registered Libertarians?

    Message: 64899
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Daryl on ASU
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 06:04:37

     Some darn good questions there Daryl. Maybe if these were presented to the
    ACLU, we would have a good opportunity to see just how fair minded this
    organization is. I have an idea that I know the answer to that, but it would
    be an interesting public revelation.

    Message: 64900
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Melissa Dee
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 06:07:24

     How do you "know" that Zak is not in his pants?
     Never mind. I wouldn't want to start a BBS scandal, or anything like that.
    (smile)

    Message: 64901
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl on Cross
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 07:59:58

    I cannot understand what all the hooplah is about this cross. Is it
    inappropriate to have a cross atop a chapel? If it doesn't belong there,
    where does a cross belong? This is all so ridiculous. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 64902
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: ShootOut GT
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 12:44:30

            Sandy is home sick....  We could have had the GT today, too bad, I
    may have stood a chance to out shoot her on the PIN Shoot!   Sigh!

                            i-

    Message: 64903
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: When & Where?
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 13:24:04

    Is this info not yet certain, or am I not invited? :(

    Michael Kielsky "I'm the NRA", and you should be too!

    Message: 64904
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff/qual book club
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 14:40:21

    Funny. I just got an ad in the mail for this club. I guess I'll have
    to look at it more carefully.

    Message: 64905
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Religion
    Subject: kachinas/satan
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 14:48:17

    I think that it is all right to display art depicting religious
    symbols of other cultures. What is wrong with a cross on the chapel is
    that it indicates that the chapel is a Christian chapel. Therefore, the
    state is promoting a religion. Perhaps if the university built a chapel
    for all other religions then it would be all right. Quite frankly, I
    don't understand why the knee-jerk religious right is so up in arms
    about this. ASU is a secular institution. The chapel had no business
    being there. As far as Sparky is concerned, he does not represent a
    religion, and as such cannot be considered as part of an endorsement
    of a religion. Indeed, the only people who should be upset about Sparky
    would be the Satanists who belong to a Satanist church. As far as
    Kachinas are concerned, the only persons who should be upset are the
    Indians who have had to endure a desecration of one of their most holy
    symbols by institutions like the Arizona Bank.

    Message: 64906
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Religion
    Subject: paul/ASU
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 14:50:02

    Perhaps if you all were serious instead of acting like spoiled children
    your arguments would be taken more seriously.

    Message: 64907
    Author: John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Religion/Rog Mann
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 21:07:32

    Your usually astute and acute mind is missing the altitude of the chapel
    cross and the religious fervor. Where we all miss is in definition of
    "religion." Is Sparky "religious"? Many think so! Is the Kachina a
    "religious" symbol? A lot of Hopis and Navajos (and this Irishman) all think
    so. Is the cross a "religious" symbol? More so than Sparky and the Kachinas?
    I don't know, really. Maybe they are the same. Is the crozier and miter and
    flag of the Holy Roman Catholic Church a symbol designating a "religion"
    more exactly and specifically than the cross disignates one? Yeah, I think
    so. So, the cross on a building might indicate "religiosity" or a repect for
    the Divine or a hope for eternal life, while the Papal flag indicates the
    authority of the Pope.  Two different things, and the cross is, indeed, more
    like the Kachina, or Sparky, or, for Rod, the dollar.
    Comment?

    Message: 64908
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: My Dinner with...
    Subject: Weapons Systems...
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 21:55:57

    "At the end of the twentieth century, the idea emerged of a new weapon that
    would be neither an atom bomb nor a laser gun but a hybrid of the two.  Up
    to then, there were fission (uranium, plutonium) and fusion (thermonuclear,
    hydrogen-plutonium) bombs.  The "old" bomb, in breaking nuclear bonds,
    unleashed every possible sort of radiation: gamma rays, X-rays, heat, and an
    avalanche of radioactive dust and lethal high-energy particles.  The
    fireball, having a temperature of millions of degrees, emitted energy at all
    wavelengths.  As someone said, "Matter vomited forth all she could."  From
    a military standpoint it was wasteful, because at ground zero all objects
    turned into a flaming plasma, a gas of atoms stripped of their electron
    shells.  At the site of the explosion, stones, trees, houses, metals,
    bridges, and human bodies vaporized, and concrete and sand were hurled into
    the stratosphere in a rising mushroom of flames.  "Conversion bombs" were
    a more efficient version of this weapon.  They emitted what the strategists
    required in a given situation: either hard radiation -- in which case it was
    called a "clean bomb," striking only living things -- or thermal radiation,
    which unleashed a firestorm over hundreds of square miles.
    The laser bomb, however, was not actually a bomb; it was a single charge
    laser gun, focusing a huge part of its force into a ray that could
    incinerate a city (from a high orbit), for example, or a rocket base, or
    some other important target (such as the enemy's satellite defense screen.)
    At the same time, the ray would turn the laser bomb itself into flaming
    fragments.  But we will not go into more detail about such weapons, because
    instead of leading to further escalation, as was expected..."
    "...because instead of leading to further escalation, as was expected, they
    really marked its end.
    It is worthwhile, however, to look at the atomic arsenals of twentieth
    century Earth from a historical perspective.  Even in the seventies, they
    had enough weapons to kill every inhabitant of the planet several times
    over.  Given this overabundance of destructive might, the specialists
    favored a preventative strike, or making a second strike at the enemy's
    stockpiles while protecting their own.  The safety of the population was
    important but second in priority.
    In the early fifties the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists printed a
    discussion in which the fathers of the bomb, physicists like Bethe and
    Szilard, took part.  It dealt with civil defense in the event of nuclear
    war.  A realistic solution would have meant evacuating the cities and
    building gigantic underground shelters.  Bethe estimated the cost of the
    first phase of such a project to be twenty billion dollars, though the
    social and psychological costs were beyond reckoning.  But it soon became
    clear that even a "return to the cave" would not guarantee the survival
    of the population, because the arms race continued to yield more powerful
    warheads and increasingly accurate missiles.  The science fiction of the
    day painted gloomy and nightmarish scenes in which the degenerate remnants
    of humanity vegetated in concrete, multilevel molehills beneath the ruins
    of gutted cities . . . but no one dreamed that with political antagonisms
    still persisting, the era of atomic weapons would come to an end without
    ushering in either world peace or world annihilation."

    "During the early years of the twentieth century, theoretical physics
    pondered a question that was thought to be crucial for the world's continued
    existence: namely, whether or not the critical mass of uranides like uranium
    235 and plutonium (that is, the mass at which an initiated chain reaction
    causes a nuclear explosion) was an absolute constant.  If the critical mass
    could be influenced, particularly at a great distance, there might be a
    chance of neutralizing all warheads.  As it turned out (and the physicists
    of the previous century had a rough idea of this), the critical mass could
    change.  Under certain physical conditions, an explosive charge that had
    been critical ceased to be critical, and therefore did not explode.  But
    the amount of energy needed to create such conditions was far greater than
    the power contained in all the atomic weapons combined.  These attempts to
    neutralize atomic weapons were unsuccessful.
    In the [late twentieth century], a new type of missile, popularly called the
    "F&F" (Fire & Forget) made its appearance.  Guided by a programmed
    microcomputer, the missile sought its own target after being launched.  Once
    activated, it was truly on its own.  At the same time, "unhuman" espionage
    came into use, at first underwater.  An underwater mine, equipped with
    sensors and memory, could keep track of the movements of ships sailing over
    it, distinguish commercial vessels from military, establish their tonnage,
    and transmit the information in code if necessary.
    Combat readiness, in the affluent nations especially, evaporated.  Young
    men of draft age considered such time-honored phrases as Dulce et decorum
    est pro patria mori to be completely ridiculous."  (to be continued)

    Message: 64911
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/5-act theory
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 23:08:27

    Ok, it was obvious that the Jewish leaders didn't write it. So, I'm
    concluding you are suggesting the Roman officials of the time. How, might I
    ask, do you suggest that they became so well acquainted with Old Testament
    scripture that they managed to parlay it into the life of Christ? There are
    a lot of passages in the OT that refer to Jesus, and a lot of OT prophecies
    were fulfilled in Christ. Only the Jewish people would have known all the
    Messianic prophecies that were fulfilled in Christ.

    Message: 64912
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Kachina's & ASU
    Date: 04/21/90  Time: 23:26:32

    Yes, the Kachina is a religious symbol. There's no way around it.
    Do we, by the intolerance of a few, remove all possible hints
    or references, statues, masks, symbols, icons, letters, numbers,
    names, colors and people just because of their connection to a
    religious sect?
    Someone pointed out that the cross, mounted on top of the chapel,
    indicated it (the chapel) belonged to the church.
    My question is, how does one assume ownership of a building simply
    by placing a symbol on it? Perhaps in a sense this is true, but my
    argument is that if a cross on top of the chapel indicates ownership,
    why then, cannot the image of "SPARKY" painted all over the stadium
    do the same? How about those flags?
    A kachina statue anywhere on the premesis has the same "ownership"
    value attributable as the cross does.
    The ACLU has shown that only a certain religion is not tolerated.
    The separation of church and state was to remove STATE control of
    religion. Not the removal of religious symbols from a CHAPEL of all
    things. I know...the non-religious would rather see it that way...
    They'd rather not be reminded that religion exists.
    But that's ok too..
    There will come the day when there will be no ignoring it.
    soon.

    Message: 64913
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Kielsky on invite
    Date: 04/22/90  Time: 00:27:26

            As far as i know, anyone is welcome...  Check with Dean Hathaway
    as to the exact date and time, but i think it is for the 28th, sometime in
    the morning.  Probably where we had the last one.

            "i'm the USMA", and you should be too!

                            Now what does that mean?   i-

    Message: 64914
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Terry Goddard
    Date: 04/22/90  Time: 00:32:42

            It does me well to see Terry has a big 'ZERO' so far in Apollo's
    little ote.
            Non $tatus members can see the ote question in the re room
    SIG by using the cmd....  If you have any input, let's hear it.

                            i-

    Message: 64915
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 04/22/90  Time: 01:08:08

    The name of Jesus was never mentioned in the OT.  The OT is just a bunch of
    early writings from our ignorant ancestors.  Yes, you and I are the
    offspring of those people, yet, hopefully we are more advanced not more
    ignorant.

    Many millions of Jews would also disagree that Jesus was ever mentioned in
    the OT.  Does that somehow make you right and they wrong?

    Besides what do you actually KNOW that you haven't read?  And if you claim
    to know something for a fact from information that was told to you then
    where did the 'teller' get their information.

    My whole point is that no one really knows beans about 2000 years ago nor do
    modern man know what happens at physical death.

    You along with so many others are only hoping you are correct, that's all.

    Me, I am Man enough to admit that I don't know, probably can't know and
    don't care if I know.

    All I really know is that I am here and plan on making the best of it.  I do
    not teach my children lies in hopes that they, somewhere down the line do
    not get brainwashed.  The scientific method is the only good way to
    determine truths and where religion is concerned zilch has never been proven

    Message: 64916
    Author: $ Rod Williams         **MESSAGE ABORTED BY ME *****
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John/the dollar
    Date: 04/22/90  Time: 01:17:45

    You are a joke.  What I mean is that you somehow have the impression that
    the dollar is a real important item.

    Greenbacks are a joke and the joke is on the working class. Gee, I'm waiting
    to collect Social Security so that I too can be homeless or live in a
    flea bag.

    Capitalism, the way it works in this land, not the theory, is no better than
    Communism, the way it works, not the theory.

    Actually the theory

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:Z64916

    Zapping message 64916

    Message: 64917
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John/Rod the dollar
    Date: 04/22/90  Time: 01:47:18

    You've gotta be joking.  That system sucks.

    Message: 64918
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: General
    Date: 04/22/90  Time: 01:48:11

    I find people who profess a belief in a creator interesting.  But believing
    something, having a gut feeling about it, is one thing but actually telling
    others that their belief is actually a truth is disgusting.

    It all boils down to not really knowing.  No one knows.  When someone says
    to me, 'Oh, my little baby Jesus is my lord and savior,' I want to
    throw-up, puke my guts out.  I just figure them for a brainwashed person
    and usually feel sorry for them.

    After all, how in the hell do THEY know?  What is the source.  Do they have
    two-way chats with this THING or what?

    Well, maybe some do, ha, ha, have these little fairies in their heads.
    After all, some people have professed to receiving their orders from dogs
    and we all know what dog spelled backwards is, eh?

    No, the source is either having been taught or made to believe this type of
    nonsense from another or being so crippled that this type of crutch is
    necessary, or at least thought to be.

    But if people would think for themselves they would find a more rewarding
    and better fitting crutch......it's called reality.  Try it.

    Message: 64919
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Cross
    Date: 04/22/90  Time: 01:53:14

    The so called chapel on ASU property was there for all people to use.  From
    what I heard there was never an intent from the Danforths for a cross symbol
    to be placed there.

    The cross denotes Christianity.  It would have been somewhat better if there
    was placed on the roof of that building a symbol of every faith including an
    atheist symbol (although I don't know what that would be).

    I've been in the Danforth building because there is a nice piano there and I
    love good music.

    I believe that it should now remain secular.  I think the wind spoke or
    spake depending on where you came from.