### Apollo BBS Archive - July 23 - 24, 1990

    Mail from Jeff Beck
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 01:38:40

    "Life was a damned muddle...a football game with everyone off-side and the
    referee gotten rid of..."
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I came once for Jesus, God dammit, but Satan is the boss.

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 1393
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 01:52:59

    Did you do the Frug?

    Message: 1394
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 01:56:43

    It (Tropic of Cancer) can't be any worse than "The Jungle" (Upton Sinclair).
    You think Miller had it bad?  (He probably did but the contrast may still be
    great).

    I have made temporary arrangements until I can get another place.

    Message: 1395
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Storm
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 01:57:47

    I read by candlelight and ate cookies.  It wasn't bad.

    Message: 1396
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: living conditions
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 03:55:35

    What bothered me more than the semi-impoverished state of the trailer was
    the attendant squalor.  It is one thing to be poor (though I don't suppose
    the term could truly be applied in this case): there was nothing to do about
    the swamp cooler; my roommate (the owner of the trailer) did not have enough
    money to get air conditioning.  There was nothing to be done about the size
    of my room; it was, I have been told, about the size of a dorm room.  I have
    never seen a dorm room, but I know that it was about 1/3 the size of the
    room at my previous residence, and the latter was of average size for a
    bedroom.  Though for a fact, there was no room for any of my furniture (I
    had NO furniture in my room, except for a bed of course), and consequently
    no room for any of my belongings or supplies that I had stored in the
    furniture (except that I put my socks, etc., on the closet shelf.  I also
    did not have room for my library, and this tried me sorely.
    There is also the holes in the roof under the cooler.  The roof is rusted
    through in a number of spots, and he doesn't have enough money for a new
    one.  We got on the roof one day intending to fix it, and you couldn't pay
    me to be a roofer in Phoenix in the summer.  Though I had a cap on and some
    sun-block, we were up there for quite a while, moving the cooler, scraping
    the rust away, locating holes, tarring, etc..  The roof leaked even when
    there was no rain; in high humidity, it filled faster than it would
    evaporate, and the float which was supposed to stop overflows did not work
    properly.  Despite our best efforts, the roof still leaks.  The only leak
    was in the middle of my room.  The ceiling panel had been removed, exposing
    the decrepit structure behind it, the yellow water stains, the perennially
    ...soaked fiberglass insulation, with a hole torn in the plastic covering it
    to allow the water to escape.  Below this was placed a pot; the drip was
    maddening at night, and we often turned the water off at night to prevent
    this, until he had the clever idea of stretching a length of coaxial cable
    down from the hole into the pot; this allowed the water to drip down the
    cable instead of falling from a distance.
    The water exacerbated another problem; several months before I moved in, he
    had owned a cat.  The cat pissed on everything, including the carpet in my
    room.  He had not cleaned it up when it happened, and it had set, and though
    it was several months dry, it stank to high-heaven still.  The water made it
    worse.  When I first moved in, I did not have my bed moved in yet, and he
    took a couple of old mattresses from an outside shed and I used those on the
    floor in my room.  Well, I kept waking up in the morning smelling like
    someone had taken a ladle full of underarm sweat and poured it over me
    during the night.  I imagined that his linens were merely dirty (he is, as
    you can surmise, a complete slob), and replaced them: the problem reoccured.
     I examined the mattresses, and discovered the cat piss problem for the
    first time; there were huge stains on it.  Those went out, but the problem
    remained, because the damned cat had pissed all over the carpet.  I
    purchased some rug cleaner (rather naively), tried vacuuming, to no avail.
    There were two layers of carpet, and older, thin decrepit original layer,
    which he was using as carpet padding, and an upper carpet, of plush brown.
    took up the upper layer, which wasn't tacked down, and threw it outside.
    The piss, though, had soaked through to the bottom layer.  I got him to help
    me rip that up, including the stuff in the closet, and discovered that part
    of the odor was due to this ancient, moldy carpet and the decaying padding
    underneath it (so, after all, there was some padding).  This was tacked
    down.  He had more of the plush brown carpeting laying around outside,
    (though covered), though his padding was rotted.  The floor, which was of
    particle board, could not be mopped, but it was unnecessary, as there was
    only one small spot where the cat piss had come through, and the odor was
    negligable.  I covered it with plastic bags, before we laid the new carpet
    (sans padding, though it was unnecessary, as the new carpet was quite
    thick).
    Then there was the cockroach problem.  A genuine infestation, in the kitchen
    and bathroom.  These two rooms were the worst; the other rooms were merely
    covered with scattered junk, though in desparate need of vacuuming and
    dusting; in the bathroom, he had a huge plastic garbage can filled with pop
    cans which he intended to collect on at the recycling center.  Of course,
    the roaches loved this.  Everything was scummy; from the toilet covered with
    urine and hair (on the rim, around the base...), to the bathtub, to the
    insides of the cabinets, to the counter tops...in short, every square inch.
    Oh, and there was also a litter box full of old soiled litter, and some
    petrified chunks of cat feces.  I threw the box outside, along with the
    can of cans, cleaned EVERYTHING, inside and out, vacuumed, dusted, ordered
    things.  You may ask why did all of this work for him; I did not; I simply
    could not live that way; it was enormously depressing, far worse than the
    lack of air conditioning.

    I sprinkled boric acid powder around the baseboards inside the cabinet under
    the sink (which I had also cleaned and vacuumed.  If this seems excessive,
    consider that vacuuming removes the roach eggs.  I also insisted that we put
    the stoppers in the drain holes when not using the sink or tub.  Guess what?
    The roaches dissappeared from the bathroom.  The kitchen was far worse, if
    you can believe that.  I should mention that before doing all of this I
    tried bug spray, with almost no success.  Ordinarily I would throw out a
    roach, but that was impractical here and they constituted a health hazard.
    Despite what Rod's friend told him they do carry diseases.  Anyway, there
    were always dirty pots and dishes and so forth, stacked in the sink,
    scattered around the kitchen, and lots of food crumbs, on the counters as
    well as on the floors.  Also, the pantry closet was full of food crumbs, and
    the roaches loved it there too.  Cleaning out that kitchen was the worse
    work of my life.  At first, I merely cleaned up the countertops, insisted
    that dirty dishes be put directly into the dishwasher, sprayed bug spray all
    over, mopped the floor, insisted that garbage be taken out every night, and
    put some boric acid behind the refrigerator, where roaches loved to
    congregate.  This helped somewhat, but they were still around in force.  I
    thought perhaps that it would be necessary to caulk under the sink where the
    boards did not meet and where many of the roaches seemed to come from (or at
    least dissapear to, but this did not turn out to be necessary.  The worst
    part was cleaning under the cabinets, inside them.  The roaches, I
    discovered, loved to cling to each other in masses, up in the dark back
    corners of these cabinets.  There was scum everywhere.  I cleaned all of
    ...crap out one day, it took me four or five hours.  It was enormously
    grotesque, especially as I had to crawl back through under these cabinets to
    thoroughly clean them.  I laid boric acid under them.  I cleaned out the
    pantry from hell.
    I vacuumed the main room, where he usually ate; lacking a dinner table (!),
    he would take the food into the other room, holding it on his lap, and of
    course the food would get all into the carpet; more feasts for the roaches.
    Only after all of this was done, did the roaches dissapear from the trailer
    altogether.  And I mean dissapear.  I never imagined I would succeed in
    wiping them out, but apparently all it took was cleaning the place, keeping
    it clean, and laying some boric acid.  Roaches go where the food is.  You
    can spray all day long, and if the place is still a food feast for them, you
    won't get rid of them. I also made a dinner table and insisted we use it.
    Finally, I cleaned, vacuumed, dusted, and organized the place except for his
    room, which now looks like some sort of queer anthropological museum, as
    well as a strange sargasso sea of all the junk he keeps.  About 10 percent
    of the stuff from the rest of the trailer was added to his little collection
    when I cleaned the place.  The rest of the trailer, though still decrepit,
    looks decent now.  Though the door to his room is kept closed most of the
    time, I still peek into it from time to time; it's like a time capsule of
    the way the rest of the trailer was.  It also stinks, since he often sleeps
    in the bed, bathing in the mornings, thus leaving all day's sweat in the
    bed, and rarely changing the linens.

    Message: 1401
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 07:53:43

    Wimp.

    Message: 1402
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: T & A
    Subject: T for Tornado
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 09:34:20

     Wind thrashing,
     my window, broke.
     My purple curtains
     mommy made, choke
     in the rain. And
     the door wants in.
     I run to open
     then my chin
     hits the wall
     by the dining room.
     Cannot breathe,
     then mother booms,
     "Where are you?
     Oh GOD!" looks out
     the door to find
     nothing, and shouts
     again. I yell
     no wind, no air
     no screams, I move
     to kick the chair.
     She runs over
     bends down to see.
     Sighs, lifts me up
     "Safe, now, with me."

    Message: 1403
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 09:35:14

    I found the tornado poem.  It should have a space after every fourth line
    but I thought it'd look better all in one message.

    Message: 1404
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Storm
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 22:28:50

    I thought it was a good storm too.  We do get spectacular storms around
    here, and where we live it is very open, so there's lots of wind as well.
    One storm we had last year managed to blow my daughter's play house several
    yards under the patio.  It's quite a hefty sort of big plastic climbing
    frame about four feet on a side.  The wind tends to distribute quite large
    objects (trash cans, old cardboard boxes) around the landscape.  It's a
    mystery where some of these things come from, since there aren't many houses
    out here.  But these objects aren't much of a problem.  You just sit tight
    and wait for the next storm, and away they go again.

    A couple of weeks back I noticed that the ground wire to our TV antenna was
    down, so I fixed it up right away.  Lightning is much more enjoyable seen
    from a distance.  Jane's brother, who lives in Illinois, had his satellite
    dish struck by lightning a few weeks back.  It conducted all the way into
    the house and they lost all of their major appliances -- stove,
    refrigerator, washer and dryer, everything.  Luckily they were insured.

    We didn't lose power during the storm, although the lights flickered a bit
    from time to time.  This is a *big* improvement over the last house we lived
    in, in Westford, Massachusetts.  There, every major storm seemed to cause a
    power outage -- or "outrage", as I would call it, because we were often
    without power for several hours, or even a couple of days on occasion.  Lost
    power meant no water, either.  It was caused by tree branches falling onto
    power lines.  We've never lost power for more than about an hour in Phoenix.

    I didn't actually dance in the rain, but I did go out in it to plant an
    empty dog bowl on the ground outside.  It collected 0.6 of an inch of water,
    which is a *very* good dollop of rain.  It was twice what they measured at
    the airport (0.3 inch).  Probably even more fell, since the storm was
    already under way when I took the bowl out.

    My daughter isn't quite into *enjoying* storms yet; thunder still makes her
    a bit nervous.  (She's six.)   We have managed to get her a bit interested
    in the idea of counting seconds between the flash and the thunder to measure
    how far away the storm is.

    My father used to enjoy a good storm, and so did his sister Grace.  If there
    happened to be a storm when he was visiting his sister, the two of them
    would stand and watch it together out of the window, while Grace's husband,
    who was mortally scared of thunder, would be hiding under the bed.

    I've asked some people why there is this characteristic smell after a storm
    in Phoenix, but I've never had a definitive answer.  Is it an ozone smell,
    or is it caused by the rain itself?  I find it quite refreshing.

    Message: 1406
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 23:04:11

    It's the smell of this mud they call "cleeche" or whatever.
    If you take a pan of water out to a dry patch of it sometime...
    pour the water on it and take a good wiff.

    Message: 1407
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Gordon
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 09:28:11

    See, I TOLD you!  I was close.  I had heard it was all the dust in the air.

    Message: 1408
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Storms
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 18:01:20

    So you did, Melissa, that's right.  I'm gonna give Mike's experiment a try.

    Incidentally, I spoke too soon about power failures.  Last night's storm
    seems to have been a lot bigger than Saturday's one, and our power went out
    from about 4:30 am to about 6:30.

    Message: 1409
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: storms
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 20:55:42

    We had a power failure here last night, too, but only for about 20 minutes.
    The transformer on the pole behind my parents' back yard made a really nice
    buzzing sound one the power went on and off.

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Jeff/Story

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I see you've already started on your book.  Good job, interesting reading.
     2:
     3:By the way, the person who told me that cock roaches carry no diseases was :
     4:
     5:                Harold George Scott, Ph D
     6:
     7:        A retired colonel [serving with US Army Infantry and Field
     8:        Artillery during World War II; US Army Medical Service and
     9:        US Air Force Research and Development Command during the
    10:        Korean War; US Public Health Service Commissioned Corps and
    11:        US Army Special Forces during the Vietnam War] and Lecturer in
    12:        Community Medicine at Tulane University, Dr. Scott previously served
    13:        as Professor of Tropical Medicine at Tulane and as Director of
    14:        Environmental Health for the City of New Orleans.  Author of
    15:        numerous publications, mainly in the field of tropical
    16:        diseases, he resides with his wife, Bettie, in Metairie, La.
    17:
    18:Anyway, I enjoyed your story it really held my interest and sounded like a
    19:chapter from a Henry Miller book.
    20:
    21:Just remember, the more miserable you are the better the book will be.
    22:Ho.ho.

    Subject:Melissa

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Mighty good poem.
     2:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 1411

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Gordon/storm

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:A lightening death would be a lightening death, so to speak.
     2:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 1412

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 67759
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/67616
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 01:27:19

    You think that is a bad neighborhood. I live fairly close to there, and it
    isn't that bad. I shop at that store...And have seen Marvin Davis.

    Message: 67760
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: the GT
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 01:40:54

    What TIME??

    Message: 67761
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Thornburg
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 01:41:51

    Cakes of Light.

    Message: 67762
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Jim Lippard
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 02:03:57

    Did you ever formulate a satisfactory definition of "science"?  As I recall,
    there was some question as to the feasibility of defining it in a manner
    that is both complete and completely accurate, or at least in a manner that
    is general and yet allows one to distinguish between science and non-science
    in all cases.

    Message: 67764
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Cliff/GT
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 08:12:54

    Would it be all right if I brought my wife, Mary, to the GT ? We would be
    a little late (8:30ish) --- but it is a way that I could attend the GT and
    still have fun.

    Message: 67765
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Last/Roger
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 08:59:39

            Re:  Would it be all right if I brought my wife, Mary to the GT?

    Of course Roger, we want to meet your better half!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67766
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Guest List
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 09:02:03

    Ann Oudin
    Beauregard Dog
    Bill Burkett
    Bob Thornburg
    Daryl Westfall (unsure)
    Dean Hathaway
    Gordon Little
    James Hawley
    Jeff Beck
    Jeff Lochansky (Mad-Max)
    Kim Paskiewicz
    Melissa Dee
    (( space ))
    Mike Carter & Wife  (Fang)
    Mike Kielsky
    Pat Stoddard
    Paul Savage
    Ralph Blehm
    Rod Williams
    Roger Mann & Wife  (@ 8:30)
    Shirley Bear
    Steven Carls
    Todd Reese                      And just maybe Jack Flash  (hope)

    Message: 67767
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 09:03:01

            Who else is bring their better half?  Thornberg?  Savage? and?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67768
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Amazement
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 10:16:33

            Here on Apollo's B-Day, Bill Burkette is going to pick a Non-$tatus
    user and give that person *Free* $tatus for one year!  Not one of you
    Non_$tatus users who use this board, even showed any interest... Sigh!

            Bill Has already paid me, thou, I have not cashed the check yet,
    till he makes his selection on the 31st of July!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67769
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Lots of People!
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 10:20:50

            Remember, the Ladys get to sit first...  I want you guys to be
    gentlemen!

            Every one use the 'Dial' or 'Irish Spring'... CLOSE Quarters!

            See you on the 28th, starting at 7:00 pm.......

                            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67770
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: science
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 10:25:44

    Nope.

    Message: 67771
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Close quarters
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 14:13:31

    Maybe the guys should sit down first so that the ladies can sit on their
    laps?

    Message: 67772
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: cliff/gt
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 14:28:11

    Well she wants to meet all these folks I keep muttering about.

    Message: 67773
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: $tatus user
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 14:41:13

    I didn't know us NON Status users were to show interest in a way of stating
    so, I thought he was going to give the award to the NON $tatus user that
    that imprest him the most, not by who showed interest.
    But if that is the case, YES I AM INTERESTED, I am going to be a POOOOOR
    pennyless college student in 4 more weeks. not that I have any money now,
    but it shure isn't going to get better.
    So here you have one NON-$tatus user extremly interested in a years worth of
    $tatus on Apollo.
    The Mad Max

    Message: 67774
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cars
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 17:23:43

       I read a book about the history of the Ford family and its cars while I
    was on vacation. It had a lot of interesting info. One example of something
    I didn't know is the explanation of how the Edsel automobile became a
    failure. It seems that the first year's production of Edsels was made by
    dropping an Edsel body on every 61st Fairlane which came down the
    production line. The result was that every worker on the line had to shift
    gears a little as the Edsel came by and use parts from different bins, etc{
    The Edsels were also an addition to the normal load, no less Fairlanes
    were being produced to allow time for the Edsel, so it was a double
    imposition on the line workers. The result should have been predictable. The
    Edsel had such quality control problems that it became a laughing stock. The
    cars styling became a scapegoat, but I personally think that the slightly
    restyled later models of the car are rather handsome. There are several of
    them for sale at a little lot on Cave Creek Road just north of Hatcher if
    you want to see what they looked like.
      These later models probably enjoyed better quality control as a result of
    having their own production lines also. The market the car was designed to
    fill began to recede about the time it was introduced, which helped to speed
    its demise.
      Does anyone here have any experience with the Edsel? I would like to hear
    about it.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 67775
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Exploding ammo
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 22:33:01

    Interesting information from everybody.  I think this is one risk that
    doesn't get adequate publicity...  perhaps because not everywhere is as hot
    as Arizona.  Still, that accident a few months back wasn't even in high
    summer.  BTW Mike, I wasn't suggesting that the accident might be fictional:
    "story" = "account", with no implication as to veracity.  I would certainly
    agree that when handling guns, or anything else with similar potential, it's
    a good idea to *understand* how the thing works, *why* it works that way,
    and then *think* about the kinds of things that could go wrong.

    What prompted me to ask about this was that I bought some ammo while
    shopping one lunch time and left it in the car during the afternoon -- since
    I wouldn't expect my employers to approve of my bringing explosive items
    into the office.  My wife came into my office and said she had bought a
    plastic toy that lunch time and left it in the car, and did I think it would
    melt in the sun?  So I said "well, I certainly hope not!"  That might have
    sounded sympathetic, but it wasn't exactly the answer she wanted to hear!
    So after she'd finished beating me over the head I told her she didn't have
    too much to worry about.  If her purchase suffered from too much sun it
    would just wilt a bit.  If mine suffered from too much sun it would go off
    bang.  I had it on the floor of the car with a plastic bag lying loosely
    over it, so it was shaded.  I'd be interested to measure temperatures in a
    car in the hot sun.  The *air* temperature in a car gets high enough, but
    I'm sure that items directly absorbing the sun's rays get a lot hotter.

    Message: 67776
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Exploding ammo
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 22:34:08

    The cookoff account from Jeff seems to illustrate a problem with the
    technical manual I was mentioning.  It does warn about firing ammo over 135
    degrees.  It does warn about cookoffs.  But it doesn't seem to have put the
    two together.  For potential cookoff situations it has the following advice:

         (1) Attempt to remove the cartridge before ten seconds has elapsed.

         (2) In case of a cartridge chambered in a very hot rifle which can
             neither be fired nor removed, all personnel except the operator
             will remain clear of the rifle for a minimum of 15 minutes.

         (3) The operator will keep the rifle trained in a safe direction.

    The inference here seems to be that a cookoff will just fire the round
    spontaneously at an unpredictable time within 15 minutes.  It doesn't seem
    to take into account that the round may not only fire, but also generate
    excess chamber pressure and blow the gun up, as it did to that luckless NCO.
    Seems as if better advice, if the cartridge can't be quickly removed, is to
    set the gun down pointing in a relatively safe direction and then EVERYBODY
    run like hell!

    Message: 67777
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Kids
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 22:35:19

    Will there be any kids at the GT?  Jane and I were trying to figure out what
    to do about our daughter, who is six.  We have three options:

         1. I can come on my own and leave Jane to look after Sarah.
         2. We can both come and bring Sarah.
         3. We can try to find a babysitter so we can both come and leave Sarah.

    Picky people might point out that there *are* other options.  For example,
    we could both come and leave Sarah to look after herself.  But Sarah herself
    would object to that.  Then, feminists in particular would point out that
    Jane could come to the party on her own and leave me to look after Sarah.
    However, *I* would object to that.  Anyway, we're investigating option 3.
    Any comments?

    Message: 67778
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Gordon / Veracity
    Date: 07/23/90  Time: 22:57:33

    No, but I wanted to leave no doubt in anyones mind about it.
    The worst thing that can happen to anyone is to get killed
    by a fictional danger.
    Th{ *air* temperature really has no direct affect since the
    temperatures measured even in the hottest cars fall within
    their advertised and required safety limits.

    This is another rock in my craw.

    The NOAA and agencies like it measure the temperature only of
    the surrounding air, and at 12- 32 feet above the ground.
    My complaint here is air temperature is fair enough, but they should
    publish a "practical" temp... the temp that WE feel at 0-5 feet next
    to the asphalt!!!
    Same with gun ammo. Measure the casing temp..forget the AIR...AIR is
    the very BEST insulator there is! The casing will be a true measurement
    of the danger.

    -       -Mike

    Message: 67779
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Beck/sines
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 00:04:35

      It's hard to draw pictures on a BBS, but I'll try.
      First, imagine a clock face, and the minute-hand, with the hand pointing
    at the "3".  Now measure the angle from the "3" to the clockhand (measuring
    clockwise).  Should be zero.  Let's calculate the sine of this angle.
      Measure the distance (vertically) from a horizontal line through the
    center of the face to the point of the hand, and the distance (horizontally)
    from a vertical line through the center to the point of the hand.  You
    should get zero, and the length of the hand, respectively.
      Now you can calculate the trig functions of the angle.  Sine = the
    vertical distance divided by the length of the hand = 0/1 = 0.  Cosine = the
    horizontal distance divided by the length = 1/1 = 1.  Tangent = vertical /
    horizontal = sine / cosine = 0/1 = 0.
      Do this for any other angle, remembering that the distances can be
    negative (you measure the vertical distance *up* to the point of the hand,
    for instance, so if the point is below the horizon, the distance *up* to it
    is negative).
      With the hand between the "1" and "2", the two distances are equal:
    1/sqrt(2).  Sine = cosine = 1/sqrt(2).  Tangent = 1.
      As the hand moves (counterclockwise), the angle increases from 0 to 360
    degrees, and the sine of the angle goes from 0 (at "3") up to 1 (at "12"),
    down to 0 again (at "9"), down to -1 (at "6"), and back to 0 (back to "3"),
    all in a smooth sine-wave.  Then the function repeats itself as the hand
    continues to move, if you count angles greater than 360 degrees.
             ======  Pascal  =(O,O)=  Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ======

      To complicate things a bit, angles are often measured, not in the familiar
    degrees, but in radians.  With an angle of one radian (about 53 deg), the
    distance from the "3" along the *curve* of the rim of the clock would be the
    same as the radius (length of the hand).  There are 2*pi radians in a
    complete circle -- the same as 360 degrees.
      The reason for the use of radians is for mathematical reasons.  It's
    easier to calculate the sine of n radians than n degrees, if you use some of
    the weird sum-of-infitite-values methods for calculating such things.  (To
    calculate from degrees, you have to convert to radians first, anyway, with
    these formulae.)
      Now hyperbolic trig functions are very different.  My math professor said
    there was a geometrical interpretation of them that gave them their names,
    but I never found out what it was.

           ======  Pascal  =(O,O)=  Hoot!  MacProgrammer  ======

    Message: 67781
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 00:39:09

            Measuring 'Radiated' heat is not measuring air temp.  Not everyone
    works on blacktop, so it would not be a 'Practical' temp.   That is the same
    reason they don't measure the temp inside a closed car.... some would think
    that would be practical as there are more people in cars at any given moment
    then working at an air port on the asphalt!  True air temp is measured 10 to
    12 feet above the ground, and not under a magnifying glass either.

            The FBI in Phoenix all have 50 rounds of ammo in their glove boxs.
    None has ever exploded.  I have placed ammo in James Hawleys wrecked Van in
    the front window on the dash board.  It did not explode today....  Ammo in
    placed in some sort of shade, should never give a problem.  However.....
    They do recommend you replace ammo stored in a hot place like a car at
    least once a year.

            As for my experiment, I will let you know if it does go off.  If it
    should go off, it will have no power to send the projectile very far... it
    won't even break the glass since it is not a contained explosion, it will
    just go BaNg!  For you guys worring about safety, the lead is cut in weight
    and the round is in a strong pan forcing the explosion (if it happens) UP!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67782
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Children
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 00:58:19

            Well, quite frankly, we are going to be crowded!  If you bring
    a child, I can get my boy Travis to baby sit in his room.  If every one
    brings their children...we MIGHT have a problem since our house is not that
    large.  We will work something out I am sure.  Play it by ear.

            Travis does have an Atari ST with neet 'kid' games.  Travis is 13
    and Tyler is 10.   They don't like GT's and were going to stay in their room
    anyways.  I have been told we GT'ers are Boring!

            But I bet they sneak down for a piece of cake!

            Tyler and Travis are in bed now, so I can't ask them, but they may
    even like the company!!!  So my answer is an assumption!

                    So hang me if I am wrong!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- Get a rope!

    Message: 67783
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: NON-status user
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 08:45:18

    I didn't know we were supposed to campaign, I am interested, though...

    Message: 67784
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Storm
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 09:19:50

    How about the storm last night? It woke us up around 1 A.M. with a loud
    thunder clap. It poured for over an hour and then started up again around 3
    A.M. Poor hubby - he was crowded to one tiny spot on a king sized bed,
    surrounded by three shaking dogs and one shaking wife. Everytime the
    lightening hit close, he was almost suffocated!! AND IT DID hit close often.
    Scarey! I'm a baby! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67785
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/Shoplifting
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 10:22:09

       But Rod, you are different in that you have a conscience. Most
    shoplifters don't. And kids today aren't taught the morals needed to build
    up a good conscience.

    Daryl

    Message: 67786
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: News Today
    Subject: It's A GIRL!
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 10:28:47

       This morning at 12:31am, the Lord blessed us with a healthy baby girl.
    Her name is Sarah Beth. She is 7lbs 5 1/2oz, and is 20 inches tall. Mom and
    baby are resting at Arrowhead hospital after problem-free labor and
    delivery.
       Our prayers for a healthy baby and a trouble-free natural delivery were
    answered.
       If you believe in God, please keep mom and baby in your prayers. If you
    don't, please keep them in your thoughts. Thank you.

    Message: 67787
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Births
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 11:00:12

      Congratulations to Daryl and Rod and their wives.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 67788
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Prank
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 11:01:37

    From National Lampoon's True Facts:
       A wooden-rabbit lawn ornament taken from the home of Harry
    and Louise West of Reistertown, Maryland, was returned
    anonymously to the couple one year later, along with forty-
    eight photos taken of the rabbit in locations such as Reno,
    the Virgin Islands, New York City, Philadelphia, and Atlantic
    City. Other photos showed the hare at Disney World and the
    Wright Brothers Museum; one especially notable shot showed
    Baltimore mayor Kurt L. Schmoke holding the bunny in his
    right hand.
       According to the Associated Press, the prank resembled a
    similar treatment accorded a year ago to Grumpy, an eighty-
    pound lawn dwarf that was part of a group of seven in front
    of a home in Saugerties, New York. That lawn ornament was
    returned one month later with thirty-five photos, including
    photographs showing him in Yankee Stadium, Colorado, Texas,
    and the Carolinas. -Atlanta Journal-Constitution (contributed
    by Barry Green)

    Message: 67789
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 11:46:39

    Wow!  Congratulations!  Pass that man an exploding cigar!  And give that new
    mother a soft pillow{
    So, does this mean you will be at the GT?

    Message: 67790
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ann/storm
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 12:52:14

    Well, it kept me awake too, but not from fright. Mary slept pretty well
    through the storm, but I kept thinking about work and stuff and ---blam---
    another storm would come rolling out of the McDowells.

    Message: 67791
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Jeff/Hans
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 13:39:59

    Sorry, guys.  Showing interest automatically disqualifies you.  I
    believe Cliff must have posted that message just to see who on
    Apollo is truly pure of heart.

    Message: 67792
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/Edsel
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 14:42:46

    Dean, I will be glad to talk Edsels with you.  I owned a '59 Ranger for
    several years and was quite satisfied with it.  The media hype about it was
    similar in many respects to the Anti-Corvair hype that is still seen
    occasionally on TV or in the magazines.

                                                       ****  Gary   ****

    Message: 67793
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Here comes another!
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 18:12:26

    Congratulations Daryl, and your wife too of course.  I don't know what
    causes birth, but there sure is a lot of it going around right now, so it
    must be catching!

    Message: 67794
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hans/Mad Max
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 21:06:23

            I am not the one who is going to pick the $tatus user...
    I just thought all you Non-$tatus users should have been making yourselves
    more visible.  I was just surprised that nothing was said to Bill...

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67795
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Daryl MSG 67785
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 21:08:57

            Yep, since religion was taken out of public schools, morals have
    declined.  The atheists are the only ones who can't see this.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67796
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl on Baby Girl!
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 21:10:03

            Congrats PaPa Daryl Westfall!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67797
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/Edsel
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 21:46:46

    One experience I've had was making a key to the trunk of one of those
    jewels.  The lock was full of dirt and had to be removed but over the years
    the springs that held the trunk lid up were missing.

    I am a fairly strong person but the effort it took just to raise that lid
    was extreme.  I run across many an auto with missing springs but they, thus
    far, are nothing compared to the weight of the Edsel.

    When living in New Orleans I used to visit every few months for about a year
    the city of Miami, Florida.  There was this one town I would pass through,
    Dotham, Alabama I think and in this one lot were about ten or so Edsels.  I
    guess they were being collected.

    I remember when they first came out and soon after came the joke about
    Edsels being junk.

    My brain has been picked.

    Message: 67798
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Religion
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 21:55:02

    So, what religion should we teach them youngsters in public schools?  How
    about Hinduism?  They have a good moral base.

    Religion should be left to the parents.

    Besides, your statement is ridiculous to say the least.  Morals have
    declined, eh?

    Message: 67799
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 21:56:03

    Congratulations, Daryl.  Hope mommy will breast feed.

    Message: 67800
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Corvair/Gary
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 21:58:34

    These were nice automobiles as long as you didn't mind adding oil
    frequently.  No, they didn't burn an extraordinaty amount as you probably
    know.  They dripped it everywhere they went.

    The car was a poor attempt by GM to copy the VW.  They missed on that one
    real bad.

    Message: 67801
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:01:37

    I wasn't planning on bringing anyone to the GT but I have a really beautiful
    daughter somewhere in that age range.  She likes to stay up till 2 A.M. or
    so and she is really well behaved and doesn't take up much space.

    If Cliff agrees then perhaps they, your daughter and mine can play with
    Cliff and Sandy's boys in their room.  My daughter uses a 1040ST also and we
    can bring some software.

    My daughter, Melody Rose is a real jewel as I'm sure your daughter is.

    Take care.

    Message: 67802
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Burkett/$tatus
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:03:48

    Well, I'd like to try for Double $tatus.  I like to write and my messages
    are always nice and yes, even though this clown cries inwardly but smiles on
    the outside whenever possible I think that I should win.

    Thank you in advance, I am,

                                    Me

    Message: 67803
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:14:24

    What of Zak?

    Message: 67804
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Jim Lippard
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:16:41

    Well then, what's your personal view of science, its validity and nature,
    relative to non-scientific systems?

    Message: 67805
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Steve/trig
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:23:08

    I'm familiar with the trigonometric functions as applied to rotations about
    a unit circle, but will re-read your message and see if there is something I
    missed.

    Message: 67806
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Steve/more
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:37:07

    I am familiar with radian measure.  I was not aware that radian units
    were more convenient because of analytic methods in their calculation.  I
    presume you are refering to operations on x to determine the trig function
    values of x, such as representing the trig function values as a polymonial
    function, the degree of accuracy being related to the degree of the
    polynomial.  The difference between f(x) and the polynomial is a remainder
    term, which in "analytical functions" approaches zero as the degree of the
    polynomial approaches infinity.  I am about to read about this.  I am just
    starting to read about the Taylor formula and Taylor series.  On the
    interval [0, pi/4] (0 to 45 degrees) the function sin x can be represented
    with accuracy of up to 1/400 by the polynomial x - 1/6(x^3).
    I know nothing about hyperbolic trig functions.

    Message: 67807
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:38:46

    Congratulations!!

    Message: 67808
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: lawn ornaments
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:43:34

    There have been a lot of similar stories.  The subject is treated in Jan
    Harold Brunvand's "Curses! Broiled Again!", a book dealing with urban
    legends.

    Message: 67809
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Cliff/schools
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:46:27

    Yes, and the fundamentalists are the only ones who CAN see this.
    Funny, but they're also the only ones who can see satanism in D&D and (all)
    heavy metal rock music.  I know that you aren't that fundamentalist -- no
    need to tell me that you don't believe that stuff.

    Message: 67810
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gotham City
    Date: 07/24/90  Time: 22:50:38

    Before the term "big apple" came to be applied almost exclusively as the
    nickname for New York City, "Gotham" was the popular nickname for that town.
     The name "Gotham" derives from a medieval legend, where inhabitants of the
    town, in order to discourage a visit from the King, behaved like complete
    mooncalves in front of the King's emissaries.  Thus, Gotham became
    synonomous with a city of fools.

    Message: 67811
    Author: Sandi Marlin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: corvairs
    Date: 07/25/90  Time: 00:22:38

    Actually, the corvair was GM's answer to the Falcon...the Falcon far outsold
    them back then and there's more surviving on the streets today. I'll wager
    that my stock Falcon is a better car than a comparable corvair(though I will
    admit that in the leak department, it was probably oozing trans fluid from
    the day it rolled out of the factory...) Still, I'll concede that Corvairs
    are neater looking than Falcons.

    Message: 67812
    Author: Sandi Marlin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: morals/religion
    Date: 07/25/90  Time: 00:36:02

    Pardon me, as a wandering newcomer, to spout my opinions on a sensitive
    subject, but I can't resist an answer. I'm not an atheist, but I don't
    equate the removal of religion from schools as the cause of all evils.
    People have a tendency to see a cause/effect relationship between anything
    and everything that coincides in time...it's just as likely that lowering of
    morals in general led to the removal of religion in school, or even more
    likely that neither affected the other but had some other root cause. I
    mean, really, since religion was removed from public schools, the metal used
    in the manufacture of cars has gotten thinner and flimsier, for example. Cam
    you honestly blame one on the other? My example is not as frivolous as it
    sounds, so think about it...actually, my parents, who went to school in the
    40's and 50's in this country say that there was no religious training then,
    either. Besides, and this is strictly my opinion, what good are morals if
    you follow them out of religious fear? I am moral because I believe I am
    doing right, not because I'm afraid of what's going to happen after I die,
    and I believe that my moral strength is stronger than the religious kind. No
    hard feelings intended.

    Message: 67813
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sandi/last
    Date: 07/25/90  Time: 01:27:14

    Ah, a breath of fresh air.  Good points, well put.  But now someone will
    think that either Jeff Beck or I posted them using your name.

    I hope that you are real.

    Message: 67814
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sandi
    Date: 07/25/90  Time: 01:38:57

    I attended school from 1948 to 1957 and neither did I note a specific
    message of religion.  We had to say the Pledge of Allegiance but that became
    so regular that we didn't really know what we were saying and I always
    thought that it said, "one nation invisible" and I would wonder why we as a
    nation wanted to not be seen.  Oh well.

    In grade school we had to say the Christian version of the Lord's Prayer
    asking for our daily bread but I really did not understand the meaning and
    still do not.

    I saw no moral message in either of the two practices that we were required
    to perform.

    Our music teacher wouldn't let us sing The Little Brown Jug or There is a
    Tavern in the Town and she would try to pick me up on a Sunday morning and
    take me to a Christian church.  I went once and found it extremely boring
    so I stole the little wine glass they gave to me filled with some rasty
    tasting grape juice.  They told me that it was Jesus' blood and it was
    pretty bad.  I've never drank blood before but I've tasted my own from
    various cuts I've had.

    I don't remember what I ever did with that little wine glass but I probably
    used it for BB gun practice.  I never went again.

    Message: 67815
    Author: $$ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GT
    Date: 07/25/90  Time: 01:41:06

    Our performance starts at Gallery X around 8:30 and should last about 40
    minutes.

    Peter would like to attend but he will be very busy that evening.

    I will hop out there immediately following.

    Gee, I hope I win that Double $tatus.

Content of this site is © Mark Firestone or whomever wrote it. All rights reserved.