### Apollo BBS Archive - August 18, 1990

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 4128
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Last
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 09:52:52

    Wow.  Rod is starting to make sense.  Scary...

    Message: 4129
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod/Man's purpose
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 12:09:55

    Man's purpose is obviously to create, and subsequently shovel, shit.

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:RC68764-

    Message: 68764
    Author: $ Pat Stoddard
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/Iraq
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 02:48:00

    Roger-  why isn't Bush using the troops now?  Well, we do not have everybody
    in place.  Bush, due to the possible constraints that the
    Democratic-controlled Congress may impose, cannot strike unprovoked first.
    If Bush ordered that, thoughts of Vietnam and the "War Powers Act" will be
    echoing around the land.  All Bush can hope for is: no harm to the American
    nationals over there, Saddam keeps to himself, Saddam gets *SO* poor he has
    to withdraw from Kuwait on economic - not military - reasons, and that we
    make more parking lots if Saddam does anything toward Saudi Arabia or the
    Americans held hostage there.

    Or, tell Israel that, in order to get your $4 billion to prop up your
    economy and military in fiscal year 1991, do the dirty work that we cannot
    do.

    If you have called 280-9945, you will have heard about the bounty on
    Hussein's right ear.  If you know of any Iraqis or Kuwaitis, or (especially)
    members of the Iraqi armed forces, and you would be interested in $600,000
    to $1.8 million, go get Hussein's right ear.

    -Pat

    Message: 68765
    Author: $ Pat Stoddard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: "Desert Shield"
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 02:51:22

    The "Desert Shield" operation in Saudi Arabia is having some close calls....
    many Iraqi air force pilots, in slightly-inferior, French-made Mirage
    fighters, have been trying to test the reactions to American and Saudi F-15
    pilots who are patrolling over Saudi Arabia.  Many times as of late, the
    F-15 pilots have been locking their missile guidance radar onto the Iraqis,
    and watching them move back from the border.
    (Probably) unrelated to the American movements there, Saddam was the target
    of an assassination attempt at the beginning of the week.  He had some of
    his army officers promptly executed.  Darn!

    -Pat

    Message: 68766
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Dean/go to 1957
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 03:48:42

    Yes, take a trip to Dayton, Ohio, 1829 Grand Avenue and look me up.  Then
    say the following:
          "I have an important message for you from your future self.  Stay in
    school, pay particular attention in english and science classes and take
    creative writing."

          Then please explain the atheist philosophy to me in detail.

    Better yet, I will give you hard-copies of all my posts from the past two
    years.

    Much appreciated,
                                        Rod

    Message: 68767
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 03:49:23

    What would I do if I caught someone in my house stealing, you ask?  That
    has only happened to me once and I went back to sleep.

    Jasmine and I operated the Digger's Free Store at 510 N. 6th Street here in
    Phoenix at the time.  Everything we had was free so there was nothing for
    anyone to steal.  I suppose the burglar took what he wanted then departed.

    What would I do now if I caught someone stealing my computer system from my
    home?  To be totally honest, I don't really know for sure.  How can anyone
    say how they will react in a situation like that?

    I am an atheist and as one I do not have a book that tells me what to
    believe or how to act.  But I was under the misunderstanding that
    Christians did.  I suppose there is a way around everything if one puts
    their mind to it.  Paul Savage gave his explanation on "turning the other
    cheek" and that is what I mean by 'a way around', an adjusting entry, if
    you will.

    From what I have continually observed, it is obvious to me that the run of
    the mill Christian can and will do absolutely anything, murder included and
    still manage to be okay with their deity.  But what else is new?

    From my understanding a Christian can "backslide" and do what they want
    then make amends, over and over.

    However, I really do understand why the human animal needs their particular
    god and it's okay by me.  I've come not to expect a sane world at this
    point in our history and I (don't we all?) see many types of lunacy on a
    daily basis.  Be with your god and be happy.    -Rod

    Message: 68769
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Alzheimers
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 05:34:42

     My grandmother died in 1945 at the age of 87, of hardening of the arteries.
    She was totally cognizant and aware of her family, her surroundings and
    everything else until the time of her death.
     My mother is presently in a nursing home in Lockport, N.Y. She is 86, and
    she has Alzheimers disease. She doesn't even know she has a son. I have sent
    her pictures of us, the kids and grandkids, most of whom she has met, held
    on her lap, rocked, etc. When asked about the pictures by people who visit
    her, she says that she doesn't recognize anyone in those photos. They tell
    me that she even gets lost on the way to the dining room, and has to be
    helped. Natural aging process? I'll never buy that one, even though I agree
    that most doctors are far more interested in the health of their bank
    accounts than that of their patients.

    Message: 68770
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: jeff/vsubx
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 08:54:41

    You might want to refer to Analytic Geometry and Calculus by
    Smail to understand how to differentiate an equation with respect to
    time in order to derive velocity and acceleration. I had forgotten much and
    had to dust off my old college textbook. btw, vsubx = dx/dt and asubx =
    d^2x/dt^2 if that is any help.

    Message: 68771
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Max on Alzimers
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 11:07:07

    I am certainly not an expert on the disease - but I will say what you
    discribed I've seen happen to people that just get old and senile. My first
    experience was many years ago when my church group visited an 'old folks
    home' as it was called. I had really never been subjected to old people - my
    parents were still fairly young then and I lived in a youthful world. I was
    apalled at what I saw - people ranting and raving - drooling - wearing
    diapers - hate in their eyes - abusive both mentally and physically to the
    staff or anyone else that happened to get too close. Years later my husband
    re-modeled the Pioneer's Home in Prescott - one of the best and I saw the
    same thing at a much close view. As far as I know, none of these people had
    Alzimer's - just old age/senility. Yet, some were older than other's - were
    alert, nice, personable and happy with life. I had to come to the conclusion
    that each of us age differently. Alzimer's in my opinion is the extreme of
    senility just like some cancers can be worse than other's, polio can cripple
    more in others' etc. etc. Just recently I saw what you pretty much
    discribed in my own mother-in-law - she passed away from heart failure last
    February. For the last year she kept getting more and more forgetful - mean
    and nasty - physically abusive to those around her - withdrawn from life and
    if she had lived, she would end up as you discribed as an Alzimer's patient.
    As I said - I just think it's the extreme of senility - a natural thing that
    can happen to any of us. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68772
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on AIDS
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 11:11:15

    The guy wasn't having sex with women he suspected may have AIDS - he had
    occasional affairs and took the tests to make sure. He is not in the high
    risk category either.
    Of course the real answer is to not have sex period until you get married to
    a person that has never had sex and then the two of you never have sex with
    anyone else from then on! But that isn't the real world is it?
                                -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68773
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley on aging
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 11:28:22

    Even wht you discribed about your mother just sounds like natural aging.
    I've seen this so many times. The doctor's and media can call it a disease -
    can search for a cure and use medication, but it won't help in the long run
    unless they come up with something that will stop the aging process.
    What you discribed about your mother has happened to - my husband's mother,
    grandmother - uncle - one aunt - several friends - my uncle - 2 of my aunts!
    These people are just personal - I've seen a lot of people and hear about
    them too. It seems that if you live long enough it can happen - yet at
    times, it does not. One of my uncles lived to almost 90 and he was as sharp
    as a bell and had a gusto for life.
    Our society seems to be of the impression that if the doctors find a cure
    for all this, we'll live forever and that is not going to happen. Modern
    medicine can only prolong life.  Nature has not made us to live very long.
    Case in point: - my mother-in-law should have by all rights died in 1983 -
    she had a very bad heart. Modern medicine put a new valve in her heart and
    she got several more years. This is all fine and good - BUT - she ended up
    with senility that she wouldn't of had if she had died at that time! We are
    livng longer - therefore you will see it more and more - a fairly healthy
    body but the mind goes. Do you see the point I'm trying to make?
                                 -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68774
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: army officers
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 12:21:44

    I've heard a rumor from a reliable source that many of Saddam's top army
    leaders opposed the Kuwait takeover, so he executed a bunch of them before.
    For one thing, that suggests that perhaps not all of his troops firmly
    believe in what they are doing. For another, you have to wonder if he's
    going to kill off all his military intelligence officers before some
    conflict begins.

    Message: 68775
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 12:49:42

      Okay, I did it. This created a parallel timeline in which you followed my
    instructions, became a neo-conservative columnist with libertarian
    tendencies, and are now a U.S. Senator who is largely ignored on the
    national scene. Want to try again with different instructions?
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 68776
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Jeff B.
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 13:12:51

       I regard the unfavorable results of anti-market policies everywhere
     that they have been used as strong evidence that they are a
    mistake. If the superiority of free market principles were an assertion made
    in vacuum we could apply your method of requiring a real world proof to take
    it seriously, but we are in fact contrasting it to the existing climate of
    anti-market policies which are available for scrutiny. That scrutiny very
    easily shows that anti-market policies are detrimental. I say that since the
    market constraints are what is being imposed, while the dynamics of a free
    market are there by default, it is the constraints which are the assertion
    which must be evaluated and proven.
       I can not agree that voluntary trade is tantamount to fraud in any
    degree. The underlying force is that the traded commodity is actually worth
    more to the purchaser than that which they trade for it, while the
    obverse is true for the seller. The denial of the fitness of those involved
    to make those choices for themselves when no misrepresentation is employed
    by either side is the essence of market controls, and I find that primarily
    immoral and secondarily counterproductive.
       I'll look for the book, thanks. Any other reading suggestions?
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 68777
    Author: $ Mad Max
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: carehome
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 15:01:24

    I work in the "green acre care home" we're pretty small, only two folks in
    the place, very personalized just like being part of the family.

    Message: 68778
    Author: $ Mad Max
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Alzheimers
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 15:14:39

    I hate to say this ann, but if this awaits me when I grow old, I don't want
    to grow old, It is to frigtening for me. I am currently taking care of an 80
    year old lady who is very forgetful, but just as sweet as you can get, now
    that lady is almost a pleasure to take care of. On the other hand I also
    take care of a 98 year old gentleman who has a combination of parkinsons
    disease and alzheimers, he is to say the least very hard to care for. Over
    the last few weeks, I don't think I have gotten more then 3 hours of sleep a
    night because of his ranting and raving all night. I am to the point now
    were I fall asleep during the day from sheer exhaustion. But starting next
    friday with my moving to the dorms, that will all stop. Like I said earlier,
    I will NEVER take care of old folks again, it's time for someone else to
    bear my burden. I can TRULLY fell for a family that has to put up with it
    for YEARS, not just one year like me. It will take me quite some time to
    become a normal oerson emotionally after this experience.

    Message: 68779
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ann/no sex
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 18:34:08

    it was when I grew up in BTP (before the pill)

    Message: 68780
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: sandi/terror
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 18:35:37

    It may become Saddam Hussein's downfall. It is clear that the Arab
    leaders of Syria and Egypt, the Turks, and Iran don't trust him and would
    like to see him gone from the scene.

    Message: 68781
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 19:05:37

    Say after me: Iran is not an Arab country.  Neither is Turkey.
    Islamic != Arabic

    Message: 68784
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/market,etc.
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 20:01:43

    My mind is numb tonight.  I'll analyze your message offline, as it might
    take me a while.

    Message: 68785
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: All kindsa stuff
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 20:38:59

    Free markets:  It seems obvious to me that an individual is better equiped
    to evaluate their needs and wants, both short-term and long-term, than a
    central authority.  Not only that, but it seems more moral to not usurp the
    authority of the individual to engage in voluntary exchanges with others.

    Iraq:  I think the Israelis would be thrilled to undertake a U.S. sponsored
    mission to take out Saddam Hussein, his nuclear bomb plants, his chemical
    warfare plants and depots, his biological warface plants and depots, and
    several million dollars worth of Iraqi military hardware.  It would only
    take the word "Go" from the U.S., and the assurance that the U.S. would back
    Israel logistically, financially, AND militarily, if such should become
    necessary as a result.  I have no problem with this scenario.  It would
    ultimately be cheaper for the U.S., cost the U.S. no lives, and certainly
    stabilize world oil prices.  Subcontracting to a specialist is always better
    in such critical situations.

    Oil:  It's time for an all nuclear electric net in the U.S.  It's cleaner,
    cheaper, and strategically independant of foreign resources.

    Michael "Live Free or Die" Kielsky

    Message: 68786
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: power
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 20:53:42

    Nuclear power (as so far implimented) is not cheaper than oil.

    Message: 68787
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 20:56:22

    Let me try again:

    You state that "to create and maintain an effective monopoly, you have to
    be protected from the free market, and the only power that can do that is
    state power."

    If you are to claim with any legitimacy that this is an empirical
    proposition, and not mere metaphysical verbiage, there must exist some
    specific, conclusive, empirical criteria which would, if satisfied,
    disprove your hypothesis.  I am asking you to supply this.  If you maintain
    that your statement is true, despite the facts of experience, then it
    cannot have anything to do with the facts of experience.  I am not asking
    you to prove it to me; I am asking you how I may disprove it to you.

    I am not making any assertions regarding constraints on the free market;
    therefore, I do not need to prove them or supply criteria for their
    disproof.  I merely contest the validity of *your* hypothesis.

    The essence of market controls, incidentally, is not to deny individuals
    the choice to trade, when no misrepresentation or coercion is involved;
    the essence of market controls is to prevent or penalize misrepresentation
    and coercion when individuals choose to trade.  How effective they are is
    a matter best evaluated with reference to specific controls.

    Message: 68788
    Author: Rich Wojtasik
    Category: For sale
    Subject: CHOW PUPPIES
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 21:12:12

    ***** P U R E  B R E E D *****
    CHOW, CHOW PUPS -- HURRY ONLY (1) ONE OF (5) FIVE LEFT
    $  1 3 5. 0 0  O. B. O.
    CALL// (602) 992-3773 -- PRISCILLA or RICH...

    Message: 68789
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Question?
    Subject: puppies/last
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 21:33:52

    Is this one of those puppy mill ads?

    Message: 68790
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/1957
    Date: 08/19/90  Time: 21:34:46

    I'll consider what you said and I will get back to you.  -Rod