### Apollo BBS Archive - July 15, 1991

    VOTE:

    Should we put Ann Oudin in the PHAntom Zone and make her Queen of it?

    [A] YES, at least once a week!
    [B] Yes, forever, and throw away the key!
    [C] No, Ann's okay
    [D] NO WAY!!!  Annie is to sweet and nice and lovable!

    How do you vote [A-C] or [CR] to abort:C

    Poll results to date:
    [A] 1    [B] 1    [C] 3

    Mail from Melissa Dee
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 16:41:21

    I was going to try to get down there yesterday to put up a story.  I am
    thinking about going to the opening so I could bring it then, I suppose.
    I am going to try to get my friends to go, too.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an [*] to stop
     1:I'm bringing my camara to the opening.  I'll be there, in the clouds, so to
     2:speak.
    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 7580
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 07:01:20

            Well, you got your wish!  If I had your brains, I would probably
    take drugs to forget too.

    Message: 7581
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Felix/arguments
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 07:42:19

    What Cliff is saying, is if you agree with Cliff, excellent posts.  If not,
    your brain is fried from too many drugs.

    Message: 7582
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: drugs
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:08:15

    All this talk about fried brains is making me hungry!

    Message: 7583
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: This sig.
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:53:48

    It should be called the comedy club sig. Fried brains indeed! *>>> ANN O.
    <<<*

    Message: 7584
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dog
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 10:29:53

            I do not go around saying 'Excellent Posts' as Rod does.  However,
    even you and Rod do post (from time to time) excellent posts even though I
    don't always agree with them.   Rod just calls anything that has to do with
    Christians as dribble.. I do NOT say the same of Atheists... unless it is to
    make fun of Rod.

    Message: 7585
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff/Pot
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 15:13:21

      The fact that a joint may contain many of the same toxins as a tobacco
    cigarette does not in itself prove that it is as harmful, and it remains to
    be established that this much is even true. I will look into it for myself.
      By the way, you are mistaken when you say that I would dispute 'proof' of
    something because I am a libertarian. I am a libertarian, to the extent that
    I can be called one, because I support individual freedom and do not support
    statism. That does not mean that I am an unthinking and uncritical
    proponent of anything 'libertarian'. If marijuana is actually a substance
    which is dangerous to the user and those around that user{, beyond
    reasonable discretion, and there is no safe dosage at which it does not
    become a problem, then I would have to consider it a poison which should not
    be legally sold for human consumption. So far I believe that none of these
    conditions is true, and that it is something people should not be imprisoned
    for chooseing to sell or use. If there is convincing evidence that my
    current assessment is wrong I could change my mind. Taking the political
    climate into consideration though, evidence must be carefully considered and
    not blindly accepted regardless of the way it was obtained.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 7586
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod/Button
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 15:14:41

      That's great, but I don't remember ever saying that.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 7587
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Debate / dispute
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 16:11:57

            Good post, I understand your view point.  What I had read said it
    had many of the same toxic poisons that tobbaco has and was indeed not good
    for one's well-being....

            As for being libertarian... That was more of a joke... Like
    libertarians running around saying there is a plot to keep them and their
    party out of the running.  They (libertarians) tell me this all the
    time..yet show me NO PROOF!  The joke is if you tell a libertarian anything,
    s/he wants proof.  Yet, your suppose to believe what they say.  Ha ha ha ha
    ha ha ha ha....

    Message: 7588
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Rebuttal
    Subject: Rod/Buttons
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 19:43:59

          I would be very much interested in one of those buttons. Especially
    after watching a series of lectures that effectively smash the entire
    concept of evolution into the pavement.

    Message: 7589
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Felix on Rod 7576
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 19:49:52

         Precisely.  And that further proves that Rod is actually MORE closed
    minded than those HE calls "closed minded."

    Message: 7590
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff / 7580
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 19:52:13

    > If I had [Rod's] brains, I would probably take drugs to forget too.

    Or you would forget to take drugs.

    [grin]

    Message: 7591
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff on Rod
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 19:53:33

    EXCELLENT POST, DUDE.

    In fact, excellent posts from everyone (except for the fried-brain group).

    Message: 7592
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Daryl/lectures
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 22:57:00

    Hell, fellow, why listen to those lectures that disproves evolution when all
    you gotta do is read that ole bible of yourn?

    Message: 7593
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean on clear think
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 22:59:24

    Most excellent posts.  Perhaps Daryl could clear up some of this madness by
    posting a few chosen bible verses.  Then we'd all know instead of being in
    the darkness.

    When I was looking for slogans I kept record of all that were given me and I
    have your name written next to the one in question.  So, it must be yours.

    Message: 7594
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff/memory
    Date: 07/16/91  Time: 02:15:15

    Marijuana doesn't make someone forget.  It enhances all thoughts.  On the
    other hand if I ever wanted to forget something I would drink alcohol.
                                    Yours truly,
                                    (damn, I forgot my name)

    Message: 7595
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hmmmmmmm
    Date: 07/16/91  Time: 02:15:58

    Something strange has been taking place these past several months.  It
    seems that I am being followed but not by the same person or the same
    automobile.  Where ever I go I am being watched although I can't see anyone
    watching me but I know they are.  They must really be professionals because
    they manage to look away when I glance in their direction.  I even carry a
    small mirror in order to trap them.  At various times They use children and
    I am sure they are wired just like all the rest.  I circle block after
    block and I manage to lose the vehicle that's following me but another
    shows up to take its place.  Sometimes it takes me an hour to get home
    whereas it could only take ten minutes.  And when I get home, sooner or
    later one of their numerous autos will drive by my house or they will walk
    past it and not even glance but I know they are watching.  They have even
    used entire families, holding hands and chatting like nothing is going on
    but that makes it too obvious, don't you see?  I've spend hundreds of
    dollars on debugging equipment but They are either using new technology or
    the people who sell me the stuff are in on it too.  I've made cut outs for
    all my tv screens so I can't be watched and I unplug my telephones when not
    in use.  Just this past week They gave me a flat tire just to slow me
    down.

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 4920
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: last/Rod
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 07:12:02

            And in the $tatus Sig you are boasting about your brain.   Look at
    what it turns out... RUBBISH!

            Rod, you not only don't have brains, you have no class!

    Message: 4921
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 07:44:18

    I think Rod would make a good Zippy.   And his brain isn't rubbish.
    Besides, that second-rate comment was right on the mark.

    Message: 4922
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Beyond...
    Subject: Apro/BA
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 08:07:48

    That is a straight line for a funny response I ever heard one. Too bad my
    brain is fried this morning or I probably could come up with a Biblical
    sound-bite that would answer your question.

    Message: 4923
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: birth frequency
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:16:31

    I like to ride down the birth canal at about 2Hz.

    Message: 4924
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Quickie
    Subject: Who is ...
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:56:44

    ... this Green Laturn? Cliff - I thought no alias were allowed.
                            *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 4925
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Dog on Rod
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 10:31:51

            I did not say Rod's brain was 'rubbish', but what it spews out is
    'rubbish'....  and filth I might add.....

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 4926
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 10:35:13

            Read the Vote results in the STOrage SIG about the alias poll.
    I never said no alias names could be used....

            Read post 20 (Handles) in the STOrage SIG

    Message: 4927
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Green Lantern
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 12:48:44

    I'm the Green Lantern. He fights for the American Way against the Nazi
    horde. And, despite curmudgeons like Ann and Roger, I am glad this board
    permits aliases !

    Message: 4928
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 16:52:17

    Lovely...

    Message: 4929
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod #4919
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 17:51:51

    I burst out laughing.  You won't see a comment like that on
    the evening news.

    Message: 4930
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Apro
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 23:01:42

    Well, I've had better.

    Public Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 76662
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: In search of
    Subject: POLICE STATE
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 01:13:50

         From my Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged Dictionary:

    POLICE STATE, a nation in which the police, esp. a secret police, suppresses
    any act by an individual or group that conflicts with governmental policy or
    principle.

    (It looks like Cliff lost the bet.  If memory serves correctly, the bet was
    for a free double cheeseburger and a large glass of milk.  Enjoy, Rod!)

    Message: 76663
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: England I
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 02:45:06

    How should I describe England?  Perhaps one way to do it in a very few words
    is to say that it's rather like the United States, only less so.

    Of course, this doesn't do justice to the English at all.  It fails to
    explain just what the differences are between the two countries, or why
    those differences exist.  Worse, it suggests that the English are a kind of
    pale shadow of Americans without an identity of their own.  This is far from
    being the case.  But it does express an important truth: that Americans
    visiting England today would find a great deal that is familiar, from M&Ms
    and the McDonald's hamburger, to the current social and economic concerns,
    to the music on the radio and several of the programmes on TV.

    Standing as we do close to the end of the twentieth century, it isn't at all
    surprising to find so much superficial similarity between two countries
    separated by three thousand miles of ocean.  The complex global society we
    have built is highly dependent on rapid and effective communication of
    ideas.  Vast organizations -- formal and informal, commercial, political,
    and cultural -- span many nations.  We derive many benefits from exchange of
    ideas.  The best ideas, the best ways of doing things, have a habit of
    bubbling to the top, while the lesser ones fall by the wayside.  We also
    benefit from the economies of scale.

    It isn't always the "best" ideas that bubble to the top.  Sometimes it's
    just the ones that happen to be most profitable for somebody.

    When the institutions, cultures, and artifacts of the modern world spread
    like a virus from one end of the globe to the other, they bring many
    benefits, but they also bring with them a kind of cultural leveling.  Local
    customs take a back seat to world customs.  This may represent a loss when
    the only superiority of the "global" way of doing things is efficiency or
    profit, at the expense of other more humanistic advantages.  Even if it
    isn't, the disappearance of "local color", of diversity for its own sake, is
    always a loss.

    The world today is moving toward the formation of one vast, global
    community.  Many of the words that describe this trend have reassuring
    connotations of warmth and closeness: alliance, partnership, treaty,
    understanding, entente.  Size, scale, organization, consolidation: these
    words suggest a strength and power that also make people feel more secure,
    while at the same time "size" and "power" are double-edged swords that cut
    both ways.  You always pay a price for protection, a tribute in the form of
    giving up a few degrees of freedom and a certain amount of your
    individuality.  I won't judge whether this is "good" or "bad"; I'll simply
    point out that such an exchange does occur.

    An American in England today will see more similarity to his home country
    than he would have done thirty years ago.  Even the cars on the street look
    more familiar.  Partly this is because a lot of them are Japanese: yet more
    evidence of the global incursion of economically successful institutions.

    Partly also it is the effect of that same global leveling, a reflection of
    the fact that environmental concerns are not unique to any one country, but
    affect us all.  American cars today are smaller than they were thirty years
    ago.  And European cars, in response to higher material expectations, have
    grown a bit.

    But one name in particular will be familiar to the American: Ford.  One car
    in eight on English roads is a Ford.  This has been true for many decades.

    I won't even try to catalogue the myriad institutions that have found common
    ground in both England and the United States; the millions of individuals
    from both countries who have found commonality of thought between themselves
    and their counterparts across the Atlantic.  This is no accident.

    Prior to Independence, the overwhelming majority of the American population
    were descended from Englishmen.  The leaders of the times -- Washington,
    Franklin, Jefferson, Adams -- almost every one had an English name.  The
    mechanism of American justice was founded upon English common law,
    stretching back for a millennium and more.

    Counting up to the present day, the country that has sent more immigrants to
    America than anybody -- nearly 13% --  is Germany.  We must remember that
    the English nation is more than anything else founded upon Germanic
    immigrants from the middle of the first millennium AD.

    Their notions of justice were progressive for their time, based upon
    consultation and agreement among the tribe -- as opposed to the hierarchical
    Roman system in which judgments and sentences were pronounced by
    "officials".  We must remember too that while England was conquered (for the
    last time) by a feudal aristocracy from Normandy in France, the Normans
    themselves were only settled and civilized descendants of the Vikings --
    another Germanic people.  Germanic roots run deep in the American people.

    If we look at linguistic similarities, we find that while Germany sent more
    immigrants to the US than any other nation, the majority of US immigrants
    were English-speaking.  The UK itself sent 9.2% of immigrants to the US
    between 1820 and 1989.  Ireland sent another 8.5%, and Canada sent 7.7%.
    Those three nations alone added up to a quarter of US immigrants, so it is
    not surprising that English continues to be the national language of the US.

    What does this mean?  Linguistic experts claim that the language a person
    speaks constrains and shapes his thoughts.  For this reason alone, we would
    expect a commonality of thought between England and America.  Ideas travel
    arounnd the world very fast, especially today.  But they travel all the
    faster if they are expressed in a common language.  Today a fad or a fashion
    can cross the globe in a year or two.  In the 1780s, the spirit of
    revolution took 15 years or so to travel from America to France.  But
    perhaps it just took longer to translate into French.

    It's that much easier for ideas to be communicated when it isn't necessary
    to translate them.  British television programs can be shown in America, and
    American television programs can be shown in England, without any change.
    The British reader can read Melville and Hemingway and Faulkner, and the
    American reader can read Wodehouse and Shakespeare and Agatha Christie, in
    their original language.

    While Ford is now a multinational company, it isn't surprising to see that
    Ford took root in England much earlier than, say, France or Italy.  Very
    likely Henry Ford found it easier to come to England and make business deals
    in English rather than in French or Italian, just an many businessmen today
    find it difficult to do business in Japan.  This is not only because the
    culture is different, but because the language is different.  When Hiram
    Maxim had an idea for a new kind of weapon and couldn't sell it in the US,
    he too found it easier to sell in Britain, where there was not only a ready
    market but also people who spoke his language.  So much so that they
    eventually immortalized this American in the well-known couplet:

         Whatever happens, we have got
         The Maxim gun -- and they have not.

    Language is a vital tie.  Millions of immigrants to the US spoke German,
    Italian, Polish, Hungarian, Russian, and of course Spanish, but the adoption
    of a common language enabled an enormous sharing of thought and ideas.

    The culture of those Italians, Poles, and Russians has been absorbed into
    America, translated into English, and exported back across the Atlantic.

    Winston Churchill, seeing the possibilies for misunderstanding between
    British and American English, noted that "Great Britain and the United
    States of America are two countries divided by a common language."  He spoke
    truth; but it was a minor truth.  He was only joking.  We should remember
    that Winston Churchill, considered by many the quintessential Englishman of
    modern times, was himself half American.  His mother, Jennie Jerome, was the
    daughter of a family who made their fortune from silver mining, in a town
    that is only two hours' drive from Phoenix.

    Ideas and cultures cross the world today, and a common language helps them
    enormously.  Ford cars are driven the world over.  Yet in Britain they are
    driven on the left-hand  side of the road.

    You can walk down the streets of Aarhus in Denmark and find a McDonald's.  I
    have found that same institution in the Champs Elysees, in a country that in
    many ways is a bastion of anti-Americanism.  I've found one in Tokyo too;
    and in Seoul, half a world away in culture as well as distance.  Today you
    can even find a McDonald's in Moscow, not so much a bastion of anti-
    Americanism as of anti-capitalism (politically at least).  So it should have
    been no surprise to me to find a McDonald's in the main street of Hemel
    Hempstead, the town where I spent most of my childhood.

    All the same, while the figure of Ronald McDonald reigns supreme in the
    world of casual family dining, there are differences that accommodate, in
    various ways, the local culture.  Perhaps the enormous success of McDonald's
    speaks of its adaptability to various cultures.  The McDonald's in the
    Champs-Elysees served wine, which is almost unthinkable in the American
    culture.  Still, "vin ordinaire" is conceptually the closest a Frenchman can
    come to "fast food".  (Later the restaurant was closed down by local
    authorities for health code violations -- something else unthinkable not
    only in America but in France also.)

    In a busy McDonald's one has to line up in front of the counter to place
    orders.  The Russian McDonald's in fact specializes in "queuing up" for
    service -- something the Russians are good at in their economy which is
    short on both service and supply.

    McDonald's is nothing if not colorful.  This fits in well with the Koream
    love of color and display -- though the Seoul menu is printed in Han-gul,
    the Korean alphabet which is a national innovation of which they are justly
    proud.  And the Aarhus McDonald's sports a small roundabout or merry-go-
    round for children -- perfectly Scandinavian yet so congruent with the
    entire McDonald's orientation toward children and family.

    The McDonald's in Hemel Hempstead sports nothing at all out of the ordinary.
    It's a vast improvement on the typical English "hamburger joint" of twenty
    years ago -- the Wimpy Bar, where the hamburgers were like boiled shoe
    leather.  (And how would a name like "Wimpy" go down in America?)  Apart
    from the prices being in pounds and pence, the McDonald's in Hemel Hempstead
    could just as well be in Hempstead, Hew York.

    And apart from the English accents heard in the background.

    It's clear evidence of a similarity in culture that makes McDonald's
    translate so easily from America to England without any obvious change.
    There are no merry-go-rounds, no red wine, no exotic Oriental writing on the
    menu.  And this is typical of the differences between America and England.
    The American in England will generally feel at home right away.  England may
    be more "foreign" than Canada, or even Australia, but it's a lot less
    foreign than France or Italy -- let alone Mongolia, Saudi Arabia or Bhutan.

    Many of those similarities are due to the spread of global institutions like
    McDonald's, Tandy, IBM, MGM.  Others are due to the sharing of common
    cultural roots.  The effect of having a common language must never be
    minimized.  A traveler who cannot speak the language of the country he is
    visiting is cut off, discouraged from communicating except for getting basic
    needs met.  A traveler who can speak the language can share himself with
    others, and they can share themselves with him in return.

    These similarities, though, are superficial.  The real differences between
    the countries lie under the surface, showing themselves in subtle ways --
    the odd little clues that strike the traveler as "strange" and remind him
    that he is in a foreign country.  Like the spelling of "programmes" earlier
    in this piece, or the fact that the English drive on the left.  England and
    America share a vast common heritage,  more than any other two major nations
    that I can think of.  But they branched off from the common tree of heredity
    at least 200 years ago.  Much water has gone over the dam since them.

    What joins the British and the Americans is both old and new.  Of old, it is
    in their roots and in their language; and in later times it is in the
    continued sharing of ideas and political and economic institutions.  But
    they are still divergent.

    When I say that Britain is rather like America, only less so, it's easy to
    infer that this is just a matter of American ideas becoming attenuated with
    distance.  Modern trends -- environmental worries, health fads, materialism,
    commercialism, AIDS,  rising prices, unemployment, crime, along with the
    technological innovations of real value to people, travel across the world
    and lose some of their force with distance.  In England you will find the
    same trends, though not as markedly.  It isn't so much a matter of distance
    as of innate British conservatism that tones down anything coming from
    outside and puts it into perspective.  England and America have different
    identities.  Next, I'll look at what makes those identities different.

    Message: 76672
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 02:55:34

    G-R-R-R-EAT!!!

    Message: 76673
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill/Metrocenter
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 05:15:53

     It is my understanding that the Metrocenter merchants pay for the security
    needed to enforce the cruising regulations there. Of course, that cost is
    reflected in the retail prices of the things those merchants have for sale,
    so in the long run it is the shoppers who really foot the bill.

    Message: 76674
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael on Roger
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 05:28:00

     For one thing, Michael, Roger is not a Christian, and has said so himself.
    As to what he is, I doubt that even he knows.
     For another thing, I think that you may be writing to a non-entity, since
    Roger has stated, just recently, that is he were ever put in the Phantom
    Zone, he would never log back on Apollo. Thus, taking him at his word, if he
    sees and/or responds to your post, we can add liar to his list of
    accomplishments. I wouldn't want to call anybody a liar, would you? Not even
    Rog!

    Message: 76675
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: PAUL!
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 07:22:34

            Re: 'he would never log back on Apollo'

            That is not 'quite' what Roger said.  It is not for us to judge
    Roger either.  I feel he is searching for the truth, and I feel he will find
    it someday.

            This is where we should turn the other cheek..  This is where we
    should love thy neighbor...  This is where we should practice what we preach
    as it would please the Lord.  Let's set some examples....

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 76676
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: tough to be Xtian?
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 07:40:33

    You know, the best thing about being atheist is being able to sleep late on
    Sunday mornings, then spend a couple of hours in bed reading the newspaper.

    Message: 76677
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon/England
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 07:52:57

    I stayed in Bedford, England a few years ago during their 1000th year
    celebration. England was, at that time, definitely more than a pale
    imitation of the U.S.A. I stayed in a bed and breakfast hotel run by a
    wonderful English family and visited the local pub and drank warm dark beer.
    As I drove down the narrow English lanes on the wrong side of the road, and
    as I stood at a curb looking stupidly in the wrong direction for oncoming
    cars, I fell in love with England. I think England echoes what we wish
    we were like.

    Message: 76678
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul on Roger
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 08:00:24

    I can certainly sympathize with your feelings about Roger, now long
    departed. You have born up well with your rock-hard faith against the
    vicious attacks of an unrepentant unbeliever. Keep up the good work, I am
    sure that your words will provide inspiration for others to follow the way
    of Jesus Christ.

    Message: 76679
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:04:48

    "Green Lantern"?

    Message: 76680
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:05:50

    I could have sworn I heard Roger say he was a Christian.

    Message: 76681
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cat on Paul
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:33:29

    No, I never ever gave it a thought that Paul was a homosexual who liked men
    with short hair - but it is obvious, he had no love for women or thought
    them equal in the least. Over the centuries this was practiced and still is
    today. I cannot concieve a woman not questioning the things Paul said or to
    keep a straight face while in church and they are preaching that and telling
    a woman she isn't worthy to be on that pulpit!
    So many things in the Christian religion came from Paul's teachings. Doesn't
    anyone - man or woman ever see what he is saying - especially in the verses
    I sent you? They are SO clear too - not the usual Bible syntax that's hard
    to understand. God would NEVER put one human over another anymore than He
    would put one race over another. If Jesus came to save us from our sins and
    we get our forgiveness from Him, then Eve would have been forgiven 2,000
    years ago!

    I am glad you and dear Bonnie have lasted 15 years with you as head of the
    household. Anything what works is great. If I chose to let my husband be the
    head of the household, fine, I could live with that, but not if he went
    around 'declaring' to be! ha. I still think it should be shared - maybe even
    leaning towards the wife that does most of the work and some staying home!
    But the home belongs to both and both should have say so - my opinion of
    course! *>>> ANN O. <<<*
    P.S. You didn't comment on what Paul said. Will you interpret what YOU think
    he meant in those posts?

    Message: 76682
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon on posts
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:38:15

    Thank you mucho for the posts on England. I printed them out and will read
    and comment later. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 76683
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael/last
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:41:32

    Roger DID say he was a Christian Michael. He just doesn't believe the way
    Pauley, Cliff and Mike believe! *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 76684
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 09:51:19

    I would like to see a vote to the members on should we keep the Phantom Zone
    or not. I just don't think it fitting to throw mature adults into it as
    punishment for something they said. Some of us may think it's cute - for
    awhile, but other's may not take it so lightly. It is silly in my book.
    The sysops can discipline the members verbally or if they won't stop, delete
    or edit their posts on the BB. If it really gets out of hand, then
    excommunicate the member for awhile. The vote could be a simple one....

    I WANT TO KEEP THE PHANTOM ZONE ON APOLLO

    I DON'T WANT TO KEEP THE PHANTOM ZONE OF APOLLO

    Believing in majority rule, I would go along without complaint to what ever
    is voted on, but I think it should be in Apollo's museum of ancient stuff!
                                 *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 76685
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 10:43:31

            Ann, before I had the PHAntom ZONE, I did just what you said to
    punish users.  It did NOT work.  When the ZONE came into being, It did not
    take long to put things in order.  I have not had to kick anyone off..
    once the ordeal is over, their profile is where it was before the Zone trip.

            There will be no VOTE on this, the PHAntom Zone will remain. Apollo
    would not be the same if the dreaded ZONE was removed.  I think most users
    will agree.  You just don't like users to see all your groveling down in
    that hell-hole.  Ain't that right Annie?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 76686
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 12:45:14

    Yes, to fight the forces of Evil, the Green Lantern fights against the Nazi
    menace threatening to overthrow the American Way. A favorite comic book
    character of mine when I was but a mere child.

    Message: 76687
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last/oh yea
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 14:06:29

            Little Cubby Billy SysOp reminded me...  I forgot to post a welcome
    message for the 'Green Flashlight'....   Oh welcome crime fighter for the
    American way.   ???  By the way, just what is the American way?  I am a
    little foggy on this now days with Gay rights groups and Christian bashers
    who seem intent on removing our rights to pray in PEACE, and abortion
    advocates who think 'free sex' gives them a right to murder and drug pushers
    who think being doped up and dopey is the name of the game...  so Mister
    Flashlight, tell us the American Way!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif- No Booze for me!

    Message: 76688
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last 200 or so
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 17:26:08

    I finally had a chance to catch up today.  I see the hot weather is making
    everyone pretty irritable.
    As for Dayrl, thank you for your congratulations.  I don't think I ever went
    by Michelle, though, but that's ok.  And I accept your poem and good wishes
    as the words that best describe your joy for us.  Thank you.
    I'm just glad you didn't mention anything about "multiplying".

    As for he religious debate, I can sum up my feeling in one quote:

    I have seen the work of too many "one, true religion"s that I don't believe
    in even one.

    Message: 76689
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Prohiboholics Anon.
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 18:03:26

      Late in the century some states and localities enacted
    laws limiting morphine to a physician's prescription, and
    some laws even forbade refilling these prescriptions.  But
    the absence of any federal control over interstate commerce
    in habit-forming drugs, of uniformity among the state laws
    and of effective enforcement meant that the rising tide of
    legislation directed at opiates--and later cocaine--was
    more a reflection of changing public attitude toward these
    drugs than an effective reduction of supplies to users.
    Indeed, the decline noted after the mid-1890s was probably
    related mostly to the public's growing fear of addiction and
    of the casual social use of habit-forming substances rather
    than to any successful campaign to reduce supplies.
      At the same time, health professionals were developing
    more specific treatments for painful diseases, finding less
    dangerous analgesics (such as aspirin) and beginning to
    appreciate the addictive power of the hypodermic syringe.
    By now the public had learned to fear the careless, and
    possibly addicted, physician.  In *A Long Day's Journey into
    Night*, Eugene O'Neill dramatized the painful and shameful
    impact of his mother's physician-induced addiction.
      In a spirit not unlike that of our times, Americans in the
    last decade of the 19th century grew increasingly concerned
    about the environment, adulterated foods, destruction of the
    forests and the widespread use of mood-altering drugs.  The
    concern embraced alcohol as well.  The Anti-Saloon League,
    founded in 1893, led a temperance movement toward
    prohibition, which later was achieved in 1919 and became law
    in January 1920.
      After overcoming years of resistance by over-the-counter,
    or patent, medicine manufacturers, the federal government
    enacted the Pure Food and Drug Act in 1906.  This act did
    not prevent sales of addictive drugs like opiates and
    cocaine, but it did required accurate labeling of contents
    for all patent remedies sold in interstate commerce.  Still,
    no national restriction existed on the availability of
    opiates or cocaine.  The solution to this problem would
    emerge from growing concern, legal ingenuity and the
    unexpected involvement of the federal government with the
    international trade in narcotics.
    (continued)

    Message: 76691
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Metrocenter
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 18:25:08

    Wow!  Does this mean that if I lived next to I-17 and the
    cruising traffic (they do have cruise control you know) was a
    nuisance, I could drop a log across three lanes so long as
    I paid for it?  HAHAHAHAHA  "Nation of laws, not men" my
    hiney!  Metrocenter is obstructing traffic on a public
    thoroughfare and bribing public officials doesn't make it
    right.  It might make it "legal" but it doesn't make it
    right.

    Message: 76692
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sysop/A.W.
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 19:31:10

    The American Way is best exemplified by Jack Armstrong, the All-American Boy
    and G-Men with steely demeanor keep our country Safe For Democracy. This
    means that Folks like Rod Williams can be free to speak out even though it
    bothers everyone and folks like Paul Savage can go to the Church Of His
    Choice without anyone telling him he has to worship at the Roman Catholic
    Church which is controlled by Papists.

    Message: 76693
    Author: $ Green Lantern
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: Welcome from Apollo
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 19:33:11

    You people sure are crabby.

    Message: 76694
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann on BAC
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 19:58:43

         Born again means a second birth, a spiritual birth.  One could also
    call it a spiritual resurrection from spiritual death, or the "first
    resurrection."  (The second resurrection is the physical resurrection, and
    takes place at the Last Day.)

    Message: 76695
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann on "Giving Up"
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 20:10:55

         Well Ann, if you prefer to retain your own personal vices to taking up
    your cross and following Jesus, then I am certainly not going to beat you
    over the head for it.  This is your decision and you have made it, you know?
    But this does not stop me from having the opinions that I have concerning
    your eternal destiny, and keeping you in my prayers nonetheless.  I do worry
    about that aspect of your future, and I care about you, so I hope that you
    do not object to my prayers for you.  (And even if you did object it would
    not matter because I'd still pray for you whether you liked it or not!
    *grin*)
         Who said that you couldn't dance?  (Oh yeah, the Baptists. *dittogrin*)
    As far as playing cards and drinking, who says that those things are
    necessarily wrong?  By cards, do you mean Strip Poker?  By drinking, do you
    mean guzzling like a fish and getting plastered and worshiping Ralph at the
    porcelain altar?  In both cases, I would think not.  If I were going to a
    church where the pastor talked and talked and didn't really say anything, I
    would of course GO TO ANOTHER CHURCH!  A pastor is not a pastor because he
    is any less a sinner than anyone in the conregation.  He is a pastor because
    he receives a calling to teach and preach.  He is a pastor because he is
    trained in Biblical matters.  He is a pastor, because frankly, if everyone
    in the church was trying to be a pastor, you would certainly have chaos
    indeed.  And as far as reading the Bible, it is certainly far from boring.
    It is only boring until you open the book, sit down and read.  If you cannot
    understand the version you are reading, get one that's easier to read. You
    see what I'm saying?  This is not a sermon, just a sharing of my views.

    Message: 76696
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann on Paul
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 20:20:39

         Paul did not hate women, nor did he feel he had to take it upon himself
    to make sure they were "in their place."  Paul believed that men and women,
    though equal, were not created to be identical to each other.  Furthermore,
    Paul believed in the very God that made the distinctions between the persons
    and purposes for man and wife.  Just because Paul did not choose to
    compromise his faith in God and take up the feminist agenda does not in any
    way equate him to a man who claimed that God demanded him to raise $9m or he
    would 'take him home.'  Personally, I wish that no one had sent him a dime.
    I would have liked to see how he planned to make good on 'god's threats.'

    Message: 76697
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Ann on BAC
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 20:22:34

          Christ did not tell anyone to 'believe in a religion.'  Christ told us
    to believe in HIM.  As for this 'on-the-spot revelation,' I've not heard of,
    neither experienced, this strange teaching.  Being born again means
    BELEIVING.  And not in a church, or a religion, or a denomination.

    Message: 76698
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Pray in peace
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 23:14:51

    In the Christian party-line book, commonly called "the bible", it says: "Do
    not be like the hypocrites and pray long windedly in the square for all to
    hear, simply go into your closet and your heavenly father will know what you
    want", loosely quoted but the meaning is the same.

    So, we Christian bashing atheists, commie, hell-bound, drug dealing scum
    don't care if you venture into your closet, we've know you have been in one
    for years.  But if you stand in the center of the square and start chirping
    in a loud voice that, "god does this or god says so and so", then you can
    expect some Christian bashing atheist to put you in your proper place, back
    in the closet.

    Nothing grosses me out more than to hear some syrupy, sweet voice praising
    their god out loud.  It makes me want to puke, on them.

    Pray all the hell you want, dude.
                                    Rod

    Message: 76699
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Religion
    Subject: My point
    Date: 07/15/91  Time: 23:18:18

    Just trying to read a Daryl message is a perfect example of what my previous
    post is all about.  Oh, Daryl is so pious, we should elect him god or make
    him a saint.  St. Daryl, defender of the party line.  Sound good?

    Message: 76700
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Vote
    Subject: Vote
    Date: 07/16/91  Time: 00:17:34

    Seems a little one sided, eh?

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