### Apollo BBS Archive - July 5, 1988

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    Message: 3860
    Author: $ Traci Sibel
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: 4th
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 00:31:18

    I went to Y95 and miscellaneous others'  fireworks show downtown at the
    capitol tonight, and it was ***** 5 star rating! The grand finale was
    spectacular!! It was the best fireworks show I have ever seen!
    (If you were watching channel 12 news at 10pm, I was the one with white
    sunglasses and Y95 T-shirt)

    Message: 3861
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 03:34:19

    What were you doing wearing sunglasses during a fireworks display?

    Message: 3862
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Fireworks.
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 05:06:04

    I was asleep.

    Message: 3863
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Fireworks
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 11:07:46

    Well, I had a great July 4.  I didn't see any fireworks, I dreamt another
    Space Shuttle exploded, and the roof, carpeting, and seatcovers were stolen
    from the nicer of my two 914s.

    Message: 3864
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 14:48:41

    They were stolen in your dream, or in reality?  The distinction was not very
    clear.

    Message: 3865
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Big deal
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:39:59

    I went to the Capitol Mall and saw the National Symphony and the fireworks
    show behind the Washington Monument.  Then I rode the Metro to Maryland and
    got everyone on the train to sing The Star Spangled Banner.  I have never
    been so proud to be an American.

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    Subject:Yah!

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        My family and I walked one block north to Thomas Road and we watched
     2:the fireworks display at Phoenix Country Club.  It was so, so.  I've never
     3:been so proud to be a Milkyian.
     4:end

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    Message: 3867
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod???
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 18:16:02

            Now that is the most positive I have seen a post from you in a long
    time....  I mean you were actually proud of something.... WOW!

    Cliff

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    Message: 1502
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 23:09:49

    No.  You're a bonehead; there's a difference.

    Message: 1503
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: babbling
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 03:52:08

    I wasn't babbling.  I was trying to teach y'all some iportant information.
    There is a difference.

    Pay attention!

    Message: 1504
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Question?
    Subject: a fellow geek
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 03:59:23

    What ever happened to Dean McCarron?

    Message: 1505
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/06/88  Time: 00:08:32

    He didn't learn his Wesson.

    Message: 1506
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/06/88  Time: 01:17:29

    Dean hasn't had any in a long time.  I guess he's getting oiled.

    (OK, so that joke was stupid.)

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    Message: 896
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: Lets laugh!
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 11:48:27

    These are some more things of value I have collected over the years.

      ___________________________________
      l         **************          l
      l                                 l  <-- 'This is the genuine
      l  I Brutus, do hereby confess    l       confession of Brutus.
      l  of the dastartdly deed of      l       Very valuable as there
      l  killing my father on the steps l       is only one in the world.
      l  of the Foram on the Ides of    l       No one knows to this
      l  March, with my sword! He would l       time who actually killed
      l  not let me have the family     l       Julius Caesar. Now it is
      l  litter on saturday night to    l       revealed!'
      l  take my girlfriend to the      l
      l  Collisium  to watch the        l
      l  Christians being ate by the    l
      l  lions!    Signed -----         l
      l                  Brutus         l
      l_________________________________l

         _________
        / X       \/l   <---- 'A petrified fish R.W. Emerson caught on
       <__________/\l          Waldon Pond'. (After extensive scientific
                               testing - it was found to have died from
    pollution caused by him dumping his sewage in the pond!)

    Message: 897
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: more laughs?
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 11:49:33

     ________
    /H H H H \
    \_H_H_H__/   <--- 'George Washington's wooden false teeth'

              /\
       ______/_/____
       l  _______  l
       l  l     l  l
       l  l  C  l  l  <--- 'The 'famous two seater' outhouse
       l  l     l  l        the dentist got the wood from'.
       l  l=    l  l        (genuine oak)
       l  l     l  l
       l__l_____l__l

            ____          ____
           l    l        l    l  <--- 'A pair of boots (goat hide) that
       ____l    l    ____l    l        never got delieved to Nepoleon's
      (__________)  (__________)       men on the battlefield due to
              l__l          l__l       governmental 'red tape'!

      _____________
      l  12 doz.  l
      lJock strapsl    <--- 'What was delivered instead'.
      l___________l

    Message: 898
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: laughing?
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 11:50:45

     _________________
     l__        -- __l
      \ Thou Shalt   l <----- 'The tablet of the Eleventh Commandment
      / Have a littlel         that somehow got lost in the shuffle'.
     /  fun   --   __/
     \______________/

         \___________
        /(o__________\=== <--- 'The one thing Noah should have left
          /\         /\         behind'! (La Cucaracha!)

         (O ooO oo)
        (OoOoOooOoo)   <--- 'A pile of dinosaur dung'! (The original
         (oooOooOo)          fossil fuel!)

            ====      <--- 'The secret 'gizmo' that we all know Detroit
           \\  h            has that will increase gas millage by 100%
           //  %%%          and allow your car to last for 500,000 miles
          //_________       with out repair' (it goes on the carborator
         (((((((((((()      of course!!)
              ++&&

    Message: 899
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: To Nick
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 11:52:00

                         ______________________
                       / ____________      \    \
                      /  l           l      \    \
           __________/   l___________l       \____\________
         /               _____________                    l
       /                 l           l                    l
     /                   l         = l                    l
    /____________________l___________l____________________l
         #######                               #######
          #####            MY CAR               #####

                         ________                      _________________
                         l ____ l                     l Corvette News   l
                         l l  l l                     l                 l
                 *_______l_l__l_l____                 l World's greatestl
                 l         ____      \                l car wins at     l
                  \        l =l       l               l  Monte Carlo -  l
                   l_______l__l_______/               l -- Again!       l
                      XXX         XXX                 l_________________l
                             ^
                             l______________  your car?        ^
                                                               l
             The monthly magazine for Corvettes only __________l

    Message: 900
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 14:31:33

    I'm willing to put money on the race between you and Nick.  Of course I'm
    betting on Nick though.  You want to take the bet?

    Message: 901
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James/last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 15:45:43

    No - because Nick won't tell me what he's got! I might be a fool, but I'm
    not stupid!! =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 902
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Doodle
    Subject: More relics
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 15:46:54

                  _       _
                 /_\_____/_\
                /___________\
                \___________/  <---- 'The Mummified remains of
                 \_________/          of King Tut's cat'!
                  \_______/           (This was over looked by
                  /_______\            Lord Carnarvon! His loss,
                 /_________\           my gain!)
                /___________\
               /_____________\        (Or is this Sandy's new dress?
               \_____________/         I keep forgetting!)
                \___________/
                 \_________/
                  l_______l

            \\\\
           ( x   )
        ___(     )                   <---- 'The remains of the bird they
        ---       \______________           took the plume out of to make
            \                   /           the pen for the signing of
             \      \/\/\/\/   /            The Declaration of
              \_______________/             Independance with'! (Note:
                 /l\    /l\                 -- No tail feathers!)

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    Subject:last many

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        You should go into business.
     2:end

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    The message is 903

    Message: 904
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/Race?
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 18:59:05

    I thought you were stupid, but not a fool.  Perhaps I am confused.

    Message: 905
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 20:26:47

    Hey, she's an artist!  She's allowed to be a fool, or even a stupid fool.

    Creative Corner Bulletin Board command:JN

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    Message: 692
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Commercial
    Subject: ST SOFTWARE SALE
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 20:05:32

    Atari ST Software
    Part  Price    Title                  Part   Price      Title
     #                                      #
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    0035 $16.47 Analyze Spread Sheet       0047 $ 8.87 Abacus Book Disk
    0085 $18.97 A-Calc Prime               0207 $23.97 Cards
    0298 $47.97 Data Manager by Timeworks  0386 $39.00 Dollars & $ense
    0562 $30.53 Forth/MT by Abacus         0589 $20.49 F-15 Strike Eagle
    0606 $22.99 Gato                       0745 $15.00 Hollywood Hi Jinx
    0894 $17.67 Jewels of Darkness         0905 $10.00 Joust
    1032 $29.97 King's Quest I             1033 $29.97 King's Quest II
    1189 $19.97 Major Motion               1223 $19.98 Memory Master
    1227 $40.00 Microsoft Write            1252 $17.97 MI-Dupe
    1509 $40.56 Partner by Timeworks       1563 $16.27 Prt Master Art Gallery I
    1598 $37.95 Police Quest               1661 $24.00 Quiz Wizard
    1873 $17.67 ST Karate                  1887 $69.97 Superbase
    1907 $42.98 Swiftcalc by Timeworks     1922 $30.53 Text Pro by Abacus
    1934 $26.97 Time Link                  2615 $15.00 Wishbringer
    2801 $15.00 Zork I                     2803 $15.00 Zork III
    2901 $23.17 1st Math

     Bring a hard copy of this post for an additional $2.00 off......

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    Message: 1579
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 19:47:37

    Rod, you are the ONLY one I see here full of hate....  I do not call you an
    ASS-HOLE for believeing in Bob and Bobra...  I do not HATE you...
            Unlike you, I feel you have the right to believe in whatever
    you wish and may do so without being called stupid.
            Take the last few days for instance, you are upset and angry that I
    post my views and they are not of your own.   It is you who needs to look at
    himself.

            Some facts Rod...
            There are a number of people on here that no longer will attend GT's
    you may go to... Why, because you can't leave your hate at home...  You
    shake their hands then tell them it was a "Devil's handshake", and other
    sorted childish bull....  You do not know how to take everyone at face value
    and be neutral,  you would rather make a farce of their religions and
    embarrass them and yourself.  You just don't understand.  Apollo GT's have
    been ruined, and you say I am full of hate....  Sure, a few hard core users
    show up, but a lot do not because no one wants to be constantly insulted!

            That is the truth....

    SYSOP Cliff

    Message: 1580
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod Williams
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 23:09:04

    You're so full of shit, you should be the poster child for Ex-Lax.

    Message: 1581
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Cliff on Rod
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 01:16:50

    I was never under the impression that anyone was avoiding GTs because of
    Rod. If these people are so uptight and insecure in their belief system that
    a little needling drives them away, then they probably wouldn't last for
    very long around here anyway.

    Message: 1582
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: last/Nick
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 02:19:51

            Nick, you are wrong about the users that have had bad feelings about
    GTs, not lasting.  A person that really believes is insulted by Rod's crude
    display and blasphemy.  It most surly takes away from the fun of the event.
    Sitting from your position on the subject, I feel you can not comprehend the
    ill feelings this creates.  Rod talks about fun and parties, but tries to
    make people feel bad... Rod is the biggest bigot I have ever known.

    Message: 1583
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 02:52:57

    A person that "really believes" should not be shaken by Rod's "crude display
    and blaspemy," whatever that is. If they are confident in what they believe,
    surely they can tolerate a little harmless fun.

    To be truthful, I never recall Rod making a scene at any GT. He occasionally
    shakes hands with the "wrong" hand, but hey, I don't hold that against him.

    Lighten up.

    Message: 1584
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Cliff and Rod
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 03:38:57

    When I first met Rod, he did a "devil's handshake"; shook my hand with his
    left instead of his right.  I was appalled.  I felt a deep down pain in my
    abdomen and vowed never to attend another GT as long as I live, damn it!

    Actually, it's not Rod.  It's the kids.  Remember that Baked Potato GT when
    they wouldn't stop throwing ice all over the restaurant?  That was
    embarassing.  I remember your reaction, Cliff.  It was very strong.  "Come
    on, kids, stop it!"  But somehow I still managed to have a good time.

    And then there was the GT when we met at Golf-n-Stuff GT and we called Rae
    Ackerman from Rod's cellular phone, right there in the middle of all the
    teen activity, a big circle of weird people passing a phone around, shouting
    "hi Rae!  hi Rae!"  What a sight that was.

    And then there were the music GTs, the last of which Rod rode his bicycle
    to.  He even sang a song and gave a one-minute speech on "Time Doesn't
    Exist" for the GT tape.  Whatta crazy guy.

    In all of these scenarios and the many others, I cannot recall a time when
    someone became offended by Rod's weirdness.  Sure, he's got a lot of
    "character", eccentric charm, but anyone who would be oversensitive enough
    to huff and puff about it has too little tolerance f their own good.

    So there, Cliff.  And Rod:  settle down.  See what you've done?

    Message: 1585
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: $#!+
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 04:16:14

    While reading Zak's post, I was trying to eat a swiss cheese sandwich. That
    is, until I regurgitated it all over my keyboard. It disgusts me to think
    that I've been part of such clearly antisocial behavior. You're all a bunch
    of geeks and boneheads.

    Message: 1586
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 05:10:49

    Rod has never had a cellular phone.

    Message: 1587
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 05:21:39

    Rod's brain can't be totally burnt out.  I know he has learned things
    since the sixties.  And since most people only use 10-20 percent of their
    brain, I'm sure he could burn 50 percent more and still have some to spare.

    Rod is just very adamant about his beliefs.  The same as Paul Savage, James
    White, etc.  He is just the other end of the spectrum.  Some always complain
    that his arguments are nonsensical or otherwise inaccurate.  But that is
    just the way he explains things.  He is very emotional, and it shows in his
    messages.

    As for people not coming to GTs because of him...  I think that some of the
    more sensitive, or non-confrontational people avoid him.  When I met Rod the
    first time, one of my roommates threatened him with a baseball bat.

    I don't think there is any use trying to change Rod.  He has radical
    viewpoints which some people can not handle.  I think if he worked on it he
    could express his viewpoints more concisely, but he has learned.  Maybe two
    years from now Ann Oudin will spell correctly and be able to form a complete
    sentence.  (Maybe I will be able to also.)

    Message: 1588
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Cliff on Rod
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 08:32:43

    I personally thought Rod was an asset to any G.T. I ever went to. He's
    always funny and outragious but he doesn't take himself too serious. If
    anyone is not going because of Rod, thats ridiculious. I know for a fact
    that at the Big Boy G.T. EVERYONE seemed highly interested in Rod when he
    showed up and it seemed things perked up when he did! Of all the film that
    was taken at that G.T. - 50% of it was of Rod and not only taken by me, but
    by Nick and JT. I have it for anyone to see. If you look at him in this film
    (oops, sorry Beau - I mean tape!) you will see a pleasant, smiling fellow
    that uses the word love a lot - that is happy and excepts everyone as they
    are. Sure - he had on his 'Thank God I'm an Athiest' t-shirt and at times
    was quite outragious (in fun) - but I saw no one that was offended by him.
    Who would be? James White? He doesn't go to any G.T. from what I've been
    told. Almost everybody on Apollo was at the B.B.Boy G.T. Who was offended
    that night? =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 1589
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: James Hawley
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 14:52:46

    It was a portable, walkie-talkie style phone.  Was it yours?

    Message: 1590
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Jokes & Ha Ha's
    Subject: A clean joke
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 15:48:44

    There was this guy that went to visit a friend that lived in the
    Ozarks, deep in the forest. After the whole family greeted him, he
    noticed a pig running around in the house and he had a wooden leg and
    only one ear.
    "Say Bubba" he said to his friend. "Whats a pig doing in the house?"
    "Let me tell you that this is a wonderful pig! Last year my little
    Nancy fell in the pond and that there pig jumped in and pulled her
    out"!
    "Wow, that's great".
    "That's not all" said Bubba. "Just this past winter, the house caught
    on fire and that wonderful pig started squeeking and squeeling and woke
    us up and saved our lives! He also warned us just last week that the
    revinewers were coming up the road so's we could hide our still quick"!
    "That truly is a wonderful pig. But why does he have a wooden leg and
    only one ear?"
    "Don't you know anything? Why, a wonderful pig like that, out of
    respect, you eat him slow!"

    Message: 1591
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Idiots
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:44:35

    You bore me.  Shut up already.

    The outer COSmos Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:Cliff

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        Mellow out!
     2:end

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    The message is 1592

    Message: 1593
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Mello out
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 18:28:45

            Geeee, just what I want Rod to do when it comes time to be insulting
    to Christians.  Anyways, when there is a GT, I generaly try to get some
    users to go by calling them directly... the reason most stated why they will
    not go is Rod....  He FORCES the subject on other people who wish just to
    meet the users and talk general stuff.   To a true Christian, it is not
    'Funny' what Rod does...  Religion to some is sacred, and that is that.
            GT's could be better if ALL would "Mello Out".

    Cliff

    Message: 1594
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 19:01:27

    Yes, it was a handheld, walkie talkie FM radio phone.  But not a cellular
    phone.  (No cells!)

    Message: 1595
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod/GTs
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 20:53:25

    I certainly consider Rod an asset to GTs.  I also enjoy visiting his house.
    I think the secret the people who avoid him need to learn is that Rod isn't
    bothered when you tell him to shut up.

    Message: 1596
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod...ASSet
    Date: 07/06/88  Time: 00:41:05

            I agree, Rod is an ASSet to Apollo.... but sometimes he goes too
    far.   I have seen Rod get angry and upset if you try to argue against him,
    after all, he is Human as well as an ASSet.

    Cliff

    Message: 1597
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 07/06/88  Time: 02:27:37

    I just realized something.  A week or so ago you were telling James White
    how "holier than thou" you are, a sinless, wholly good creature of this
    earth.

    Recently, though, you've posted nothing but nasty, filthy trash about
    Cliff's dong and other assorted repulsive subjects.

    What a raving hypocrite.  Without sin you are not, I say.  Take a good,
    long, hard look at yourself.  Wake up and smell the granola, lady!
    The outer COSmos Bulletin Board command:JN

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    Message: 100
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Dog Doo-Doo
    Subject: JT
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 05:23:00

    I hear that JT is going to be filling in for Morton Downey Jr. during his
    vacation next week.

    Message: 101
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Dog Doo-Doo
    Subject: #99
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 08:37:13

    See what happens when you mess with the mighty Sysop and Sysopette? Does
    that explain it to you Zak? Sigh! When will that awful picture of me quit
    appearing on the boards? Soon I hope. If not --- BEWARE! The pen is mightier
    than the sword! =*--ANNIE THE FANNY--*=
    P.S. If that wasn't clear - I'll put it another way - it was a bonified
    'threat'!

    Message: 102
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Dog Doo-Doo
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 14:33:04

    Does that mean you didn't do that yourself?  And here I thought you had a
    good sense of humor.

    Message: 103
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Crapola
    Subject: Morton Downey
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:45:28

    Good, clean entertainment.

    Message: 104
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: ANNIE the Fanny
    Subject: next Pic?
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 18:32:52

            Personaly I thought that picture post #99 was conservitive of what
    COULD have been posted....  ((Counter THREAT)) note the world "COULD"

            Daa dee daa daa dum.....   Next?

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    Message: 52991
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Question?
    Subject: PEACEFUL REVOLUTION
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 18:52:40

         "We need a peaceful revolution of our youth to bring mankind a step
    further up the ladder of intelligence, like in the sixties."

      It didn't work then, obviously - so why should things be any different
    now?  Sounds to me like you just miss the party, and want someone else to
    throw another one at the expense of us all.

    Message: 52992
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taxes
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 20:04:01

            Taxes a

    Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:Petrisko

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        From the mid-sixties to the early seventies, a giant step was taken,
     2:allowing more freedom than previously enjoyed.  You were not around during
     3:that period and when you were born, the freedoms gained were already in
     4:existance.  Do you think you could be living with Kristin in 1964 without
     5:being arrested?
     6:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 53016

    Bulletin Board command:$RC

    Press  to abort

    Message: 52992
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taxes
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 20:04:01

            Taxes are not always fair... they are not perfect...  But without
    them, where would all the roads and other services come from?  Remember, it
    is the PEOPLE that ask for these services to be done for them by the
    government.
            Did you know there are more middle income people that do not pay
    taxes then there are Rich people that don't pay....  Care to argue that Rod?
            It might be fair if EVERYONE paid, and that means Rich and the Poor.
    Maybe 10% of your gross pay, with no exceptions.  The other part would be
    that Congress could not spend more than it collected no matter what!
    We have to work WITHIN a budget, why not our illustrious leaders whom we
    elect?
            Everyone needs a place to live, but if you gave that to them free,
    where would it come from?  Let's face it, even I would turn very lazy and
    not work if I was provided with a house and food, and so would many others.
    This proves everyone must work for their home and a morgage makes that
    possable.
            Capatilisim is the *BEST* system in the world even if it does not
    seem perfect.

    SYSOP Cliff

    Message: 52993
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod and Ann
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 22:42:53

    I'm stunned by your messages.  They indicate that you have either a> not
    read any of my messages and/or b> are as stupid as JT says you are.
    Dean and I have patiently attempted to explain to both of you the sad
    situation this nation is in: the state is out of control, and in the name of
    "public good" rights are being crushed.  Why did I say Rod is hopeless Ann?
    It's simple: his claim is that nothing can be done to make the world better,
    and all that we have done is useless.  I do not accept this fatalistic
    attitude, and I work hard to change people's attitudes.  You can't imagine
    how frustrating it is, however, when you patiently explain that government
    intervention has high costs, and someone says they agree (even calling
    herself a libertarian), then says government should stop insurance companies
    from making people pay for their own risks.
    Anyway, to deal with some of your idiotic comments on a point-by-point
    basis:
    Ann: "you seem to think everything is 'hunky Dory' all the time!"
    Rod: "Your continual stream of right-winged messages that indicate
    everything is okay and normal in this world."
    This is unsupportable blabbering.  Clearly I do not believe everything is OK
    in the world; quite the contrary, I continually fight against the myriad of
    government and private actions which have this nation in critical disarray.
    You apparently have not read anything I've ever written, or if you have,
    have apparently been unable to sound out the words.

    Message: 52994
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: more
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 22:50:27

    Rod: Your message on taxes, which you say, have not been raised in forty
    years is one such indication."
    You missed the entire point, Rod.  Taxes haven't been raised.  I
    specifically pointed out that this doesn't take into account bracket creep
    (read the message again).  My point was that your analysis that the "rich
    raise taxes" was far too simplistic.  It isn't taxation per se that's the
    problem, it's the use of inflation as a tool to ease the deficit, and the
    many hidden cost imposed by the government in just the stupid actions Rod
    advocates -- rent control, for instance.
    Rod: "I am sure you are being taught such nonsense so that you may join the
    future work force of the brain dead and thus be able to carry out the edicts
    of the power mongers."
    Rod, do you even have a brain?  As I've pointed out often, my belief in the
    free market came from my own study, which was set off by reading messages by
    Jim Lippard and others.  Pull your head out, Rod.  The power brokers are the
    ones imposing all of these government controls.  For instance, locksmiths in
    California imposing licensing to limit entry into the profession.
    Ann, the problem with Rod's posts is that he points to problems and does
    little to solve them.  Well, I'm doing something about them.  I'm fighting
    on many fronts to change the intellectual climate which accepts the rise of
    statism.  Your ignorance of the fact that Dean and I agree shows how you've
    ignored my messages.

    Message: 52995
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: more with the idiots
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 22:58:16

    Rod :"If, as you say, we are doing so well, then why is it that the
    majority of this nation are struggling to make their rent/mortgage,
    insurance, utility and tax payments?  Why are our cities so polluted, not
    only with automobile emissions but with unruly gangs, slums and homeless?
    Why is our military in many foreign nations, spending our money without
    the consent of the majority?  Are we protecting our children against
    Communism, all the while letting them suffer with our deficient system?"
    Why Rod?  I'll take them one point at a time.  The reason rents are so high
    is because building a housing unit is made very expensive by government
    intervention.  One builder offered to build a whole bunch of shacks for
    temporary homeless shelters, but the government told him they weren't up to
    code so he couldn't do it.  Far from saying the world is perfect, I have
    been complaining about this nonsense often.  Why is insurance and utilities
    so high?  Because, again, entry into the market place and pricing structures
    are very regulated.  Why are taxes so high?  Because the congressmen
    shamelessly pork-barrel, throwing in a multitude of spending bills
    benefiting a small special interest.  Why are cities polluted?  Because the
    chance to get out of these ghettoes have been taken away from these youths,
    with pathetic public schooling, severe limits on job opportunities from
    unions and minimum wages, and a weak police force constricted by activist
    courts.  Why is the military is so many foreign nations?  Because, contrary
    to what you say, voters indicate they want them there.  Meanwhile, these
    countries spend the money that they are saving on national defense to help
    their businesses undercut ours.

    Message: 52996
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: still more
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 23:00:15

    I could go on, but I'm not sure why I bother.  Neither of you read my
    messages, you've made that clear, or if you do, you fail to read them.  You
    claim I believe the world is perfect.  Well, that's nonsense.  Idiots like
    you have been sold a bill of goods that if we just get together and let the
    government do things for us, protecting us from "greedy capitalists,"
    everything will be OK.  Well it won't, and it isn't.  And it's getting worse
    every day.
    I'll be fighting it, as I do now.  Meanwhile, you'll be helping it along and
    whining into a modem about how it isn't enough.
    Mankind isn't hopeless, contrary to what Rod says, but when I see your
    blitherings, I have to wonder whether maybe he has a point after all.

    Message: 52997
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod/Ann
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 23:56:03

    Ann Oudin states:
     'Those two posts of Rod's were excellent. They were not the ravings of a
     fanatic as you both seem to think of Rod at times. There was not ONE thing
     in those posts that were not the truth!'
    The posts in question contained:
     'I see a terrible spirit in this nation, it is a greedy, capitalistic
     one that is at best self serving.'
     'We need a peaceful revolution of our youth to bring mankind a step
     further up the ladder of intelligence, like in the sixties.'
    Ann Concludes:
     'Those wern't ravings - they were very clear and precise! =*--ANN--*='

      So, we see two people in total agreement that capitalism is the source
    of our problems and that they have identified the cure for it. Lets
    examine the statement about a peaceful revolution to see what their cure
    entails.

    Message: 52998
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Ann/Rod/Cont.
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 23:57:43

      The only reason that it must be specifically carried out by our 'youth'
    would have to be the fact that anyone else would already know better than
    to destroy the best system known in favor of a failed or unknown one. The
    special attractions 'youth' offer a con-artist in the realm of ideas are a
    lack of experience in recognizing a rehash of a bad idea from the past, and
    the desire to be a force for change.
      The idea that it will bring us up the ladder of intelligence is a clear
    giveaway that it is something obviously foolish. Its victims must therefore
    be convinced that they are too inferior to possible comprehend it. Since
    it is absolutely impossible for anyone to predict that this change in
    intelligence would come about or that it would result in our suddenly
    finding ideas brilliant that have already proven asinine, we have to
    conclude that the 'intelligence' angle is simply a hoax.

    Message: 52999
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Ann/Rod/Last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 00:00:34

      Since the pattern for this revolution is to be the well documented
    Sixties, we have all the evidence we need to put it to rest once and for
    all as a serious attempt at improving mankind. The Sixties saw a group of
    people turn to violence (although they called it peaceful) against every
    vestige of civilization. They attacked every institution which had
    nurtured them, not with reason and better ideas, but by doing everything
    in their power to choke off reasonable debate. They shut down universities
    by holding them hostage, just as they held all opposing thought hostage to
    their riots and slogans. By creating a situation where all anyone wanted
    to do was shut them up, they ended up getting nearly everything they
    demanded without having to justify it with logic. The result, of course,
    was the creation of a permanent lobby specializing in the politics of
    emotion over logic on a wide range of issues and still continuing today.
      Using Rod's own chosen pattern to explain what it is that he and Ann
    want, we can see that it is a return to the supremacy of action over
    thought. This is just the kind of situation a sub-man would desire. Why
    devote time to working on practical (meaning respectful of individual
    rights) solutions to the friction in a complex social engine like
    capitalism, when you can just smash it and live an animal's life
    in the secure and unchanging embrace of the tribe?
      See you later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 53000
    Author: $ Traci Sibel
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject:
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 00:50:57

    wanted to be 53000.
    g'nite sweet prince!

    Message: 53001
    Author: Mychele Nickels
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Iran
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 01:59:25

    A major national incident, on the anniversary of the nation, and only one
    post?!
    Maybe the big discussion is on another board...

    Message: 53002
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last...
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 02:25:25

            Frankly, I am waiting for more facts to be in before the finger is
    pointed.  I would not put it past Iran to want a plane full of martyrs.
    Who knows, maybe the plane captain was going to crash his plane right into
    the Navy ship, or maybe it was truly an accident... no matter, it is still
    sad so many innocent people were killed.  But, they bomb our planes claiming
    there are no innocent Americans.  Sounds one sided to me.

    SYSOP

    Message: 53003
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Iran incident
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 02:47:59

    Given the facts at hand, I am inclined to say that we reacted properly,
    though I do regret that many innocent people are dead.

    The Iranian aircraft was accelerating and descending, and did not respond to
    calls on either civilian or military frequencies. It was also 4 miles off
    course, a grave error in what should be considered a war zone.

    Message: 53004
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: David/Error
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 05:46:29

    You statement about the California Lockmith Permit Law, and Contractor's
    License Law are incorrect.

    The California Locksmith Association sponsored and supported the Locksmith
    Permit Law, which requires the registration and fingerprinting of all
    locksmiths that are for hire to the public.  The intent of this law is to
    ensure that a person convicted of a felony cannot operate as a locksmith
    within the State of California.  The provisions of this law even allow a
    convicted felon to receive a permit if he or she can show proof of
    rehabilitation.

    But the CLA did not sponsor the law that most people have problems with, the
    Contractor's License Law.  This requires that a locksmith pass a normal
    contractors test.  Locksmiths having to learn about electrical, carpentry
    and all the other things to become a licensed locksmith is absurd.

    Locksmiths were not trying to limit new entries into the business, only
    trying to make sure that felons were not.  I have read of a few locksmiths
    that had been imprisioned for B/E, and other assorted crimes, who take the
    Foley Belsaw course in prison, and then get out and start robbing places.
    Not common, but when it happens, it gets a lot of press.

    (Data taken from the July, 1988 Locksmith Ledger.)

    Message: 53005
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/Libertarians
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 05:47:09

    All the alcohol was gone by the time I got there.  Sundays parties were
    dead.

    Message: 53006
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hamilton/M Downey JR
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 05:49:09

    I saw most of the show.  I think the requirement for the show is that the
    guests can scream very loud.  Personally I think the show is second rate.
    It might survive a year or two in syndication as a novelty, but I can't take
    the show seriously.

    Message: 53007
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: David
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 07:22:28

    For once you wrote a post stating the world isn't such a great place after
    all! It was kind of a shock because I always got from your posts that you
    didn't really see too much wrong at all. However, I take offence at being
    called stupid! I don't call you stupid for your belief's and I see no reason
    why you should mine. For instance - the insurance subject. I NEVER said that
    people shouldn't pay for their own risks! I did say the insurance companies
    should be policed and not have free reign to charge what they like. It is
    now manditory and what is preventing them from charging 50% of your pay
    check at this point? What is stupid about asking a question about that? You
    accuse me of not reading your posts. But are you reading mine? Why do Rod
    and I get the opinion that you do think everything is 'hunky Dory' all the
    time if we don't see it in your posts? But then again, you just write us off
    as stupid and that truly must be what you think. I'm really sorry that you
    do because we will not be able to learn anything from each other in the
    future because your mind is closed. =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 53008
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 07:33:22

    I think one of our major problems here is - we do not take one subject at a
    time and discuss it! Too much is thrown in and nothing is gained but hurt
    feelings. Instead, why don't we take one at a time - I.E. starving people,
    wars etc. etc. and see what each other's opinions are Re: the solutions? No
    deviations - staying on the subject and trying to find some answers. But
    something is very wrong here -- I know for a fact that you and I do not
    disagree all that much because we have talked in person several times and I
    don't see where we are at odds on most things. So why arn't we communicating
    better? If it is basically my fault, then tell me what I'm doing wrong. I
    will try to rectify it the best I can. =*--ANN--*=
    P.S. Thank you at least for not doing any name calling.

    Message: 53009
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Peter/60s
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 08:13:53

    Much good DID come out of the so called 'Peaceful Revolution' of the
    60s! Civil Rights for one thing. Protesting against no win wars for
    another. We learned that we didn't have to follow blindly everything
    our parents and their parents, the schools, the government told us to
    do! The Feminist's movement got started at that time - something that
    was long over due. We questioned our 'sacred government' for the first
    time and found it lacking. We found it human! =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 53010
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:19:44

    Civil rights came out of the 1960s?  I suspect Abraham Lincoln would have
    been surprised to find that the Emancipation Proclamation was a product of
    the hippie revolt.  And Earl Warren would no doubt be shocked to learn that
    in 1954, when he wrote the decision in Brown v. Board of Education, he was
    merely reacting to unrest on college campuses in the 1960s.  And as for
    feminism, wouldn't Susan B. Anthony be shocked to learn that she was a
    daughter of the '60s.

    Message: 53011
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Burkhart
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:20:23

    You still have not answered Ann's question:  How do you justify the downing
    of the Iranian airplane?  Until you can answer this, your right-wing views
    really cannot be taken seriously.

    Message: 53012
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:23:10

    Of course, high taxes and onerous bureaucracy bring about a backlash.  This
    is known as the "underground economy" and consists of people merely
    bypassing legal restrictions on their trades.  It is especially prevalent in
    Latin American countries, whose bureaucracy makes ours look like a cake
    walk.  Basically it consists of people like LOCKSMITHS for example doing
    their work, not reporting their income to the government, and not paying any
    taxes.  Perhaps we have a few LOCKSMITHS or other professionals on this
    board who can (pseudonymously, of course) explain how easy it is to get away
    with this.  You see, taxes really aren't all that much of a burden, if you
    know how to get around them.

    Message: 53013
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michelle Reynolds
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:28:43

    The following article appeared on the op-ed page of the July 4
    Charlottesville (Va.) Observer:

    CHANGE THE NATIONAL ANTHEM
    By Michelle Reynolds

         The immortal Moon Zappa once said, "I am so sure."  I was reminded of
    these words, and the classic Zappian spirit of irony in which they were
    uttered, as I prepared for another year of banal festivities on Independence
    Day.
         Today, all across the nation, people are celebrating the anniversary of
    something or other that happened a very long time ago.  I don't exactly know
    what it's about, but I know it's supposed to be really patriotic.  The
    problem is, kids today just aren't patriotic.  That's because patriotism
    hasn't kept up with the times.
         Consider, for example, the National Anthem.  "Oh say can you see by the
    dawn's early light what so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last
    gleaming."  What does this mean?  I don't know.  Plus, you can't dance to
    the lousy song.  All in all, the National Anthem has no relevance for
    today's young people, and should be changed.
         Congressdude Andrew Jacobs (D-Ind.) has introduced a "bill" (that's
    what they call a law that is not a law yet) to change the National Anthem
    from the Stars Pangled Banner to America the Beautiful.  But this would be
    even worse.  America the Beautiful is not only banal and generally

    Message: 53014
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michelle Reynolds
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 16:34:53

    unsatisfactory, it is also totally gay.  I mean, who wants to sing a song
    about fruited planes?
         There are many songs that would be far superior to either the current
    National Anthem or America the Beautiful.  My own preference is for the song
    Rebel Yell by the composer William Idol.
         Now, I do not know exactly what the song Rebel Yell is about.  But
    judging by the title, at least, it seems likely that it captures the
    American revolutionary spirit.  And it was written almost five years ago, so
    it surely has the status of a classic.
         It is time to abandon the ossified patriotic traditions of the past and
    forge ahead into the future.  Young people must keep the American Revolution
    alive.  Otherwise, we shall perhaps need to follow Moon Zappa's wise
    admonition:  "Gag me with a spoon."
                                     ###
    Michelle Reynolds is the Toni Basil professor of history at Johnny Rotten
    University.  This article is drawn from the current issue of Burning
    Toddlers magazine.

    Message: 53015
    Author: Apro Poet
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Skinheads
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 17:33:55

      Ian Stuart is an English skinhead leader and a singer in
    Skrewdriver.  Stuart helps publish a monthly bulletin called
    *Blood and Honour*.  The publication reports on the
    activities of racist rock bands whose music he called "a
    celebration of being white."  In a recent interview in his
    flat in London's Islington district, Stuart said he
    maintains contact with racist groups in the United States,
    including Tom Metzger's organization and the Ku Klux Klan,
    through CASH and Romantic Violence.
      Spokesmen for the California State Department of Justice
    and the FBI said those agencies had opened preliminary
    investigations into the activities of skinhead gangs,
    focusing on criminal behavior against minorities that might
    constitute civil-rights violations.
      Most of their criminal activity thus far has been
    concentrated in acts like the painting of swastikas and
    hate-message graffiti and other acts of vandalism against
    Jewish businesses and synagogues and homes and businesses of
    Hispanic and Asian immigrants and blacks.
      "Virtually everywhere they are, they're engaged in
    criminal activity," said Irwin Suall, head of the
    fact-finding department of the Anti-Defamation League of
    B'nai B'rith in New York.  The league estimates that there
    are approximately 2,000 neo-Nazi skinheads nationwide.

    Message: 53016
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Petrisko
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 17:55:23

            From the mid-sixties to the early seventies, a giant step was taken,
    allowing more freedom than previously enjoyed.  You were not around during
    that period and when you were born, the freedoms gained were already in
    existance.  Do you think you could be living with Kristin in 1964 without
    being arrested?

    Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:David/Dean

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        I skimmed your long messages so I will re-read carefully and give an
     2:answer.  I did notice one thing, David, and Ann pointed it out.  You said
     3:some things about your beliefs which excaped me in previous messages.
     4:Perhaps you are not the right-winged person I thought I was dealing with.
     5:Good.  In fact you said some might nice things which I was unaware of.
     6:Well, at least we got our feelings out, didn't we.  Now, perhaps we can
     7:understand what each of us are saying or to be more exact, meaning.
     8:        I can see, David, where my message got your goat and caused you to
     9:go a bit overboard with your feelings.  Sorry you lost it because when I
    10:posted my message to you I did not have any ill feelings.
    11:        It is all in the open and allow me to go over the posts this
    12:evening.
    13:                                Later dude,
    14:                                Rod
    15:end

    Edit command:S

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    The message is 53017

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    Press  to abort

    Message: 1502
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/04/88  Time: 23:09:49

    No.  You're a bonehead; there's a difference.

    Message: 1503
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: babbling
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 03:52:08

    I wasn't babbling.  I was trying to teach y'all some iportant information.
    There is a difference.

    Pay attention!

    Message: 1504
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Question?
    Subject: a fellow geek
    Date: 07/05/88  Time: 03:59:23

    What ever happened to Dean McCarron?

    Message: 1505
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/06/88  Time: 00:08:32

    He didn't learn his Wesson.

    Message: 1506
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/06/88  Time: 01:17:29

    Dean hasn't had any in a long time.  I guess he's getting oiled.

    (OK, so that joke was stupid.)
    Bulletin Board command:JVOI

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    VOID Bulletin Board command:G

    Goodbye, Rod Williams
    You were on 38:24

    Please hang up now
    [>x%mEanu6(XMe
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