### Apollo BBS Archive - July 1, 1990

    Mail from Jeff Beck
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 17:24:58

    Don't hold your breath.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:GOOD POSTS.  Your posts impress with the your real intelligence and
     2:questioning you posess or that posses you.  -Rod

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 67100
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Hello again
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 03:56:05

    Hi everybody.  'Fraid I haven't been around for a while -- after my
    3-week stint overseas I was back for a short time, then off again;
    hardly time to catch up with anything...

    One bit of US news I did catch was about this maniac James Edward
    Pough who massacred ten people in Jacksonville.  I was especially
    ticked off at him for getting the gun lobby a bad name right when
    all these votes are going through on DeConcini's bill.  We sure
    don't need that.  But I was a bit puzzled about some of the details.

    This seems to have happened on Monday the 18th, and unfortunately
    Tuesday the 19th was the only day Jane didn't pick up a newspaper.
    The only reports I have are in Time Magazine and in France-Soir.
    First off, what kind of rifle did he use?  Time described it as "a
    .30-cal. 'assault-style' rifle" (of course, they would!), and in
    France-Soir it was described as "une carabine semi-automatique 30-
    30".  Now I'm damned if I know of any semiautos in 30-30 caliber.
    Does anybody know what it was?

    Secondly, Time said that "in 1971 Pough pleaded guilty to the fatal
    shooting of a man", and went on to say that a background check
    before purchasing a gun would have uncovered this criminal record.
    France-Soir, on the other hand, clearly implied that Pough had been
    tried and found NOT guilty of a murder.  So which was true?

    Message: 67101
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James White/organian
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 08:28:07

    Deux ex Machina is always a  poor plot ploy. I WIN ! I WIN ! I WIN !
    I get the prize for the best three word alliteration for July 1st !!!

    Message: 67102
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mad Max
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 10:01:21

            I don't think people are being sarcastic about DeVry.  I think they
    are telling you how they feel.  I have a friend that went to DeVry for years
    and got his degree in computer science.  He could not get a job with that
    peice of paper and he is now a Rent-A-Cop so to say.  Whoopy!
            But then I know a girl that went there and had several offers for
    work when she graduated, Not great offers, but offers non the less.
            Hardly 'ridicule'.....  just truth!   Would you rather us long time
    residents of Arizon LIE about DeVry and tell you it is great!   ???

            Some of those users who said 'NO' to Devry, and 'Yes' to ASU, work
    at some of the MAJOR places in Az.  Like Sperry/Honeywell, Motorola.
    Rather then classify anything they say as 'ridicule', why don't you take the
    time to contact these users and talk to them?  Try the Electronic ost
    Office on Apollo.....

            If you choose DeVry...  I will still wish you well!

                            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67103
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/your dog
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 10:30:04

    Sounds like Cujo to me. heh heh. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67104
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hans/trees
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 10:34:26

    When we moved here 5 years ago there is this Eucaliptus (reg.) in the back
    yard - it's at least 4 stories high! I assume that would be a fast grower
    and what your looking for. Alas, this one only shades the neighbors yard -
    not ours. Wrong side. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67105
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/questions
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 15:25:13

    What's a Cujo?

    Why not move the tree?

    Message: 67106
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon Little
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 15:27:24

    Welcome back, you were missed.

    The .30 caliber rifle, as it was pointed out was a semi-auto and not an
    assult type as it had a brown stock and not a black one.

    But assult-type makes the establishments position stronger in gun
    legislation, doesn't it?

    Hope you stick around.

    Message: 67107
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: John C. (1 of 4)
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 15:28:53

          Man alone of the animal creation preys upon his own species.
                                        -Charles Sumner

    Species:  composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are
    able to breed among themselves.

    You ask what I thought the essential difference was between man and animal.
    That particular statement is a misnomer because man is an animal.

    I guess your purpose here, in this discussion, is to feel satisfied that
    the human animal is the leader of the pack so that we can feel proud and
    above all other life here on planet Earth.

    I'm afraid that the answer to that question is, at present, beyond our
    particular realm of human knowledge.  The facts are not yet in and won't be
    for quite a while.

    Theoretically speaking, the Universe is mighty large, with no real words
    to adequately describe it.  We could say that it is limitless in its area.
    We only know, at this time, that there are literally billions and billions
    of other bodies of matter that we could call neighbors.

    cont.

    Message: 67108
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: JC/animals 2 of 4
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 15:29:46

    If you were part of a large body of free floating energy and could travel
    about the universe at the speed of light, viewing what existed, and you
    happened upon this planet, perhaps you could draw some definite opinions:

          That the entire planet was in its mid-stage of development, that
    intelligent life did not exist here among any of its species.  That all
    species communicated with its own kind but not with any other.  That the
    species that developed technology was muffing it in its current stage of
    illiteracy and making it bad for all life, both plants and animals.

          A truth is: that the possibilities of what life in the universe can
    achieve is totally without limit of any kind.  That the relative importance
    of planet earth as a spinning glob of matter among all other masses is, to
    Mother Nature, a zit in eternity.  That it will, as all spinning bodies do,
    run its course in due order just as all forests catch on fire and burn.  It
    is no 'biggie' as things go, just another mass in motion.

    At this point in our evolution not one species of life has achieved
    anything of global importance but to the contrary we have learned how to
    destroy ourselves quite well and in the interim have learned how to enslave
    our own kind as well as the other species no matter what system name we
    use.  And those species that humans cannot control are systematically
    destroyed.
    cont.

    Message: 67109
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: JC/arf 3 of 4
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 15:30:33

    The lowly cockroach is a prime example of the last sentence.  We do
    everything we can to get rid of it by poisoning with harsh chemicals but
    to no real avail.  Our homes contain mounds of poison that affect all
    species in the vicinity, our children included.  But if humans were to
    succeed in eliminating this species the net result would be another minus
    for our survival.

    Cockroaches have their place in the natural order of things.  Every room in
    a humans dwelling contain the dropping of our daily life.  In the kitchen,
    the bathroom, bedroom and living room are small particles of food, body
    parts such as toe jam, ear wax, nose material and a host of other things.
    The vacuum cleaner and other cleaning devices and methods are not totally
    effective in removing everything and some people are pigs.

    We don't move often enough in order to let Mother Nature renew out
    dwellings.

    My father-in-law is an Entomolegist with a Ph.D., a retired
    U.S. Public Health Service Official, a former Professor at Loyola
    University and author of the plan adopted by the U.S. Military for disease
    prevention.  He remarked to me that cockroaches do not carry diseases.

    They most probably help prevent disease material from building up by
    consuming and converting it into a more useful form.

    Message: 67110
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: JC/4 of 4
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 15:31:16

    My point is:  That all species are a part of the same ecological system as
    a unit, as a whole, a balance if you will. Not one species is more important
    than another although some would like to think they are.  We are zits in
    eternity, too ignorant during this stage to be given serious thought.

    I would guess that there are more evolved species somewhere in this
    universe, species that could truly say they were above and more important
    than the human animal or any other species here.  But somehow I doubt that
    they would feel this way.

    We know that each galaxie in the universe will run its course, so to speak,
    that it is constantly changing and will at one time become nebulous in
    character but not a single atom will be lost in its entirety.  More atoms
    are no doubt coming into being on a continuum.  Energy does not see death.

    I would think that our immediate goal is to become an intelligent species
    rather than say we are the intelligent species.  This is important because
    believe it or not, that which is a lifeform has feelings, can feel aches
    and pains, experiences happiness and sadness, can feel a boot to the side,
    can tell when it is being oppressed whether it be a man, a dog or a
    cockroach.

    Message: 67111
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John/Moral
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 15:32:35

    Unfortunately we are a long way from achieving this and it is sad.  But
    harken because in ignorance there is bliss.  So put down that book of heavy
    matter and pick up a Captain Marvel Comic Book, don't think past your next
    rent check and open that can of beer.  But most importantly donate your
    time and money to our national war on drugs and weapons.  The President
    needs us.

    If this doesn't give you a satisfactory answer to your question to me then
    let me know and I will try again.         -Rod

    Message: 67112
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff Lochansky
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 16:03:15

    I looked over the previous posts you claim were full of personal
    attack and ridicule. If there's any ridicule at all, I'm missing it.
    It seems clear that *you* are the one taking this thing personally.
    I would suggest that you re-evaluate what you're saying.

    If you feel that it is personal, it's time not only to re-evaluate
    what your feeling but also *why*. That's the first sign of
    danger.

    You feel emotionally attached to DeVry already and your taking insults
    directed at DeVry as your own personal insults. I would be very careful
    from this point on. But seeing that any post aimed at helping is called
    a personal attack, I'll just say that don't come to my office looking
    for a job with a DeVry piece of paper. It wont work.

    Message: 67113
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Rod/party
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 17:35:01

    Can we all pretend to be anarchists?

    Message: 67114
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cummings/English
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 17:56:05

    Go back and re-read the Murray quote in the OED yourself; I will emphasize
    certain words in capitals so t

    Message: 67114
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cummings/English
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 17:56:05

    Go back and re-read the Murray quote in the OED yourself; I will emphasize
    certain words in capitals so that they might penetrate that obdurate chunk
    of grey matter which you so gamely refer to as a brain:

    "It [between] is still the only word available to express the relation of a
    thing to MANY surrounding things SEVERALLY AND individually, *among*
    expressing a relationship to them collectively and vaguely."

    Clearly, one does not refer to a pair as "many" nor as "several."  The OED
    shows citations for "between" used of more than two from 971 to 1885;
    Websters from 1303 to 1985: the usage is more than a thousand years old.

    If you will take the time to read the OED in all of its sagacious splendor,
    with the eyes of a seeker of knowledge and not those of a shrewish old
    schoolmarm desperately defending her arbitrary and capricious methods, you
    will immediately perceive the distinction between "between" and "among":  it
    is not that one is restricted to reference to two things, and the other is
    not; it is that one relates specifically, while the other only generally.

    Message: 67115
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cummings/murder
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 18:08:33

    You are really such an abominable trifler, John.  It is scarcely worth my
    time to respond to you, because if you insist on misreading my meaning and
    intent originally, I should really have to be inordinately optimistic to
    believe that you will not continue to repeat your mistake; clearly, this is
    essential to your personality; bungling is as natural to you as pissing on
    curtains is to cats.  Please to not stop to pedantically lecture me on the
    absence of any evolutionary mechanism relating urination by cats with
    curtains; it was a joke.

    Murder is a legal term, nothing more.  I made it perfectly clear to any but
    a ha'penny hack of your quality, that animals cannot break the letter of the
    law because the law does not, in this case, apply to them.  But the law
    against murder is merely the practical manifestation of the morals of
    civilisation.  A predatory beast can violate the spirit of that law just as
    easily as predatory human.  But we would no more hold the tiger against the
    letter of the laws of civilization than we would hold a headhunting cannibal
    in the jungles of Borneo against the letter of those laws.

    Message: 67116
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: July!
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 19:04:51

            I hope everyone has a fun and safe 4th of July.

            July is also the B-Day for Apollo BBS.   I am hoping to host a GT at
    my place....on or about the 28th of July.  I would like to start hearing
    from those interested so I can make a list...and plans.

            I will set up ol'Tom R. Slone, the original system.  Will probably
    run the 'Apollo Video' tape on the boob-tube for those of you who missed it.

            Any volunteer(s) to make an Apollo Cake?  That store bought one from
    Fry's the last time was a tad too SWEET!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67117
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: between alternatives
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 19:48:02

    Which do you prefer: to speak of a trade agreement between nations or among
    them?  Would you say that a triangle is the space *among* three points?
    Would you say that a train route runs *among* New York, Cleveland, Albany
    and Chicago?

    Message: 67118
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: animals
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 20:05:15

    There is a program tonight on channel eight featuring vultures which pick up
    bones off the plains, carry them to a height of 500 feet, and drop them, so
    that the fall shatters the bones, allowing the birds to eat the marrow.  I
    have seen similar programs demonstrating primitive rational thought and the
    use of tools by animals; otters using rocks to crack open bivalves, chimps
    and apes using sticks as weapons (both as clubs and projectiles in the
    manner of spears), and also using them to collect and eat insects by
    inserting the sticks into the small entranceways to underground nests.  I
    have seen monkeys wash their food in salty water.  This behavior is not
    instinctive, but is invented by individuals and henceforth was propagated
    as learned behavior though social interaction.
    An interesting experiment was conducted by German Gestalt psychologist
    Wolfgang Kohler during WW I.  On the island of Tenerife (in the Canary
    Islands) he conducted learning experiments with apes that were native to the
    island.  One experiment, carried out with an ape called Sultan, put the ape
    into a cage where a bunch of bananas were hanging from the ceiling.  In the
    cage was also put two bamboo sticks (which could be fitted together).
    Sultan originally spend a great deal of time trying to knock down the
    bananas with one of the sticks (but eventually gave up).  Then one day as he
    was idly fiddly with the two sticks, he joined the sticks together into one
    long pole.  He immediately got up and knocked the bananas down with the long
    pole, and every subsequent time he was presented with the same problem he
    immediately solved it in the same way.

    Kohler repeated this experiment many times with other problems, such as
    providing several boxes that had to be stacked to reach the bananas.  EAch
    time, the ape would fail to make any progress and than suddenly learn how to
    reach the bananas.
    In 1945 a follow-up experiment was conducted.  Chimpanzees who had no
    previous experience playing with sticks could not solve the problem.
    However, after these chimps had been allowed to play with the sticks for
    only three days they were able to solve the banana and stick problem easily.
     Evidently, they had learned something in their play that enabled them to
    learn insightfully.

    Message: 67121
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/animals
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 21:48:20

            Rod, "chow" is a type of dog.  Did you mean the Italian expression
    for "so long, see you later"?  (Sorry, that's a mean dig.) --John C.--

    Message: 67122
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Rod and Ma N.
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 23:17:18

       My post did not concern itself with nature, but rather Rod's description
    of his "Mother Nature." "She," in Rod's words, seems to be a relentless
    (word for female dog that rhymes with stitch) and he apparently has no
    qualms with "her" because of it. But bring up a God that so loved the world
    (Jn 3:16), and watch Rod's claws eject.
       I'm not saying that I understand why God works the forces of nature the
    way that He does (being as I'm not God, I cannot know His mind). But I take
    Him at His word that there is a reason for everything (Ecc 3.1-8, or "Turn
    Turn Turn" by The Byrds, your choice). Someday I will understand. Until
    then, when faced with the unexplainable (especially when it hits close to
    home), I will remember the words of Job 1.21.

    Daryl
    (Ro 15:5-6)

    Message: 67123
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann / 67053 / Fire
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 23:19:48

       I cannot say what the cause or purpose for the fire was. I was merely
    stating that the fire was not a punishment from God for some undefined sin
    of some undefined person. All that was dealt with at the cross.

    Daryl
    (Php 2:6-11)

    Message: 67124
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod / 67081
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 23:22:18

       But, unless I am mistaken, it is not up to the individual dispose of the
    flag him/herself by burning it. You are to have someone who is authorized do
    it.

    Daryl
    (Php 2:6-11)

    Message: 67125
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod on Bob and cats
    Date: 07/01/90  Time: 23:23:54

    "Quick, quick! Rod's coming! Hide the cat!"

    Daryl
    (Php 2:6-11)

    Message: 67126
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John Cummings
    Date: 07/02/90  Time: 00:26:20

    "CHOW" is also Vietnamese for "Goodbye". Normally in the
    lingo, Elder, junior or family-relationship is added as a suffix.
    Like "Chow - un" pr Chow oon. Means respect to an elder.

            -Mike

    Message: 67127
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff/party
    Date: 07/02/90  Time: 00:44:57

    Okay.

    Message: 67128
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/video
    Date: 07/02/90  Time: 00:46:58

    I'd like to video tape it.  Say hi to Tom R. Sloan.

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:Daryl

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
    You gotta be kidding.  What is it about a Jesus that you don't understand?
    If there was such a person then why worship or spend time on the dead.  The
    man next to you is a brother, an animal that is equal to everyother animal
    in the universe.

    I don't get it, you thrust a myth of death over having fun and enjoying your
    Brother.

    You are so busy living in the past but it is possible to snap out of it.  I
    did.

    It is a crutch of the temporary scared but your freedoms end where my nose
    begins.

    If you think that YOU are made in your gods image then what does your god
    look like, You?

    Wake up and smell the caffeine or beef fat?

    I love you as a brother and openly admit that you, Daryl Westfall, has a
    brother in a fairly interesting myth but I am not a myth.  I am real and so
    are you.

    Wanna go out and glue some sticks together, we can make them in the form of

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    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:Daryl, yes

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
    crosses and use them to scare the Vampires away.  Good idea, by Jove

    It is people caring about people without having the dead, which we probably
    are a part of, taking up some premimum time that we could be spending with
    people planting the corn or something to that tume.

    Bob (C1, v.1-56)

    And he saith to him, out of the desert land that Jerimian Johnson our holy
    JJ, protector of protectors.  Bob continues, he speaketh bull crap out of
    his jaw, about Jerimiah Johnson and Son.

    Well Daryl, you see that above paragraph is what, in essense, your old dead
    book says.  Get a new book, one by Mark Twain and they were written a
    hundred years ago.

    Why are you so freaked out?  Don't be afraid to admit it....I've sure been
    there a few times.  I looked for myself and have traveled a lot of paths and
    I am still on one but what you are serving is death and hell because hell is
    an intregial part of your religion.  I don't have a hell in my outlook
    either for myself or anyone else, nay, not a thing shall burn into pain
    forever and ever sayath the bob and the anti-bob.
    So, get a life, my friend and make that life, life, got it?!!!
            This ain't g'by now, cause I am your brother but ain't your ma.

    Edit command:S

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    Goodbye, Rod Williams
    You were on 29:49

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