### Apollo BBS Archive - June 19, 1991

    Public Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 75805
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Abusive Bill
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 05:25:21

     I didn't mean to neglect the abusive fathers, Bill, although a lot of the
    tolet training is left to mom and much of that abuse comes from her.
     As to the classes we could drop to make room for something as worthwhile as
    practical lessons in living,how about some of the "skating" classes that the
    kids who don't care to study are offered just so they can "skate"through to
    a high school "education"? You know, like basket weaving 1 & 2 or some other
    totally silly stuff? There's more fluff in H.S. cirriculums these days than
    you can shake a stick at, and they are all costing us dearly, in a lot more
    than money. I personally know of at least one functional illiterate who is
    walking around with a high school diploma. Why? Because he played a pretty
    good game of football! He never did anythin with his ability, (probably
    wasn't all THAT good), never learned anything else, and is now married with
    a couple of kids he has no way of supporting, since he has a bad knee that
    won't let him do any physical work, and he can't read or write and has no
    ambition or desire to learn. This, too, is a product of our "education"
    system. (And the good Dr. Spock, by the way)

    Message: 75806
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie! Annie! Annie!
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 05:33:51

     There you go again! Coming up with scenarios that nobody else ever
    suggested or even alluded to!
     Nobody, least of all me, ever thought for a minute of depriving parents of
    the joys or thrills of parenthood by instituionalizing all the children!
    That would be a horrible plan!
     What sorely needs to be done in order to break this vicious cycle of abuse
    is to educate people in the art of parenting BEFORE they become parents.
    Parenting in today's society is hard enough as it is, without going into it
    totally blind to and unprepared for the responsibilities that are demanded.
     So many parents today can't teach their kids this responsibility. Why?
    Because they never learned in themselves. Child abuse is not something
    unique to the present generation. Most abusers learned the pattern of abuse
    from their parents, who learned it from their parents, etc. Something has to
    be done to break this cycle, and if anyone can come up with something better
    than education, let's hear it, by all means! And let's not bring Hitler into
    the conversation. That's comparing apples and onions.

    Message: 75807
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: caller ID
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 05:39:01

     So the number is already there, and all it takes is the technology to
    retrieve it?
     That should be a fairly simple thing for some of our more electronically
    technical minds to develop. How about some of the local cable pirate box
    makers?
     How about some of our own electronic geniuses? Mike Carter? Anyone? If it's
    not too complicated, somebody could make some money with a bunch of those
    things.

    Message: 75808
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger on blame
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 06:46:20

    Yeah! Lets blame the Republicans!! Makes sense.

    You are, of course, right about the media reporting on child abuse more now.
    They are doing this with a lot of things, giving us the impression that
    things are worse than ever in many cases, when they are not.
                      *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75809
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul Carelli
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 06:47:41

    Welcome (back) Paul. Theres another Paul on this BBS too. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75810
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley, Pauley, Paul
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 06:59:23

    We already have "Education in the art of parenting". Any parent or both can
    attend classes on child raising. They might not be on every street cornor,
    but if you look in the paper, you can find them - the schools - some private
    and some public. They even had them way back when I was having babies.

    You can come back now and say I got off the subject, but reality is, you
    suggested people should not be allowed to have children until they are
    trained. You backed off a little, but that is still the underlying theme of
    your post. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75811
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod on tooth
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:01:27

    Welcome back to the world of the living. Did you have the tooth pulled?
    Sounded like a very bad infection. *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 75812
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann on Media
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:41:47

    We are a silly people. The media even tries to make up things to worry about
    like the Scientologists that were on the cover of Time magazine a few weeks
    ago. (You can see my copy , Beau)

    Message: 75813
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Bulletins
    Subject: Welcome Paul C.!
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:52:37

    A prodigal returns!  Welcome back, Paul C.

    Now, see if you can whack some sense into the other Paul.  If for no other
    reason than to save the honor of your name.

    Message: 75814
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Paul Fudges!
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:53:02

    > As to the classes we could drop to make room for something as
    > worthwhile as practical lessons in living,how about some of the
    > "skating" classes that the kids who don't care to study are
    > offered just so they can "skate"through to a high school
    > "education"? You know, like basket weaving 1 & 2 or some other
    > totally silly stuff?

    Come on, Paul.  You're skating on the assumption that there are classes like
    basket weaving in our curricula.  If you're knowledgeable enough to say
    something should be cut, you must know enough to tell us what.  So, what
    should be cut?  Sex ed?  The American enterprise course the legislature
    foisted on us a few years back?  Physical ed (Is there nothing to be learned
    from sports and athletics)?  Drivers' ed?  What, Paul.

    Message: 75815
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Politics
    Subject: More Fudge
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 07:53:23

    > Nobody, least of all me, ever thought for a minute of depriving
    > parents of the joys or thrills of parenthood by
    > instituionalizing all the children! That would be a horrible
    > plan!

    So, to return to my earlier question, Paul:  What is the penalty for failing
    the class?  How do you suggest we go about making these parenting classes do
    what they're supposed to and reach the people they need to reach?

    Or would you prefer simply not to do the hard thinking that difficult
    choices demand?

    Message: 75816
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 09:33:48

    I'm glad you have no fear of death, but you have a responsibility to the
    large family you've chosen to create.  Refusing to handle a medical problem
    immediately is NOT the same as putting off fixing a lock for a couple
    days because the medical problem can deteriorate rapidly and cause other
    medical problems while the lock's condition wouldn't change because it's
    an inanimate object.

    Thanks for sharing this experience with us, but don't expect anyone to be
    impressed with the way you handled it.

    Message: 75817
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bill
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 10:34:35

    "Physical Education" should certainly be de-emphasized and removed as a
    mandatory requirement.  Sports in general have little to do with the
    educational process and I think they should be handled by groups like
    Pop-Warner rather than tax-supported schools.

    You can always come up with some secondary benefits of ANY extracurricular
    activity that could be called "educational", but that doesn't mean everyone
    should have to pay for them all.  I learned something about teamwork from
    the rock band I was in during high school, but I didn't expect the school to
    provide us with all the facilities we needed and force other students to
    attend pep-rallies supporting US!

    Message: 75818
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Nightline
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 11:00:00

      Did anyone else see Nightline last night? I caught part of it and saw
    Boris Yeltsin taking some hard questions from Ted Koppel on the future of
    the Russian republic and the Soviet Union. I was impressed with Yeltsin's
    attitude and his ability to deal with real questions.
      He represents a total break from 70 years of socialism, and his own words,
    wants to bring Russia back into the civilized world.
      He was opposed by the soviet media and existing bureaucracy, yet won the
    Presidency by a vote of the people. Unless he turns out to be a fraud, a la
    most western politicians, Russians could finally get the chance to earn the
    good life they were falsely promised after the revolution. They would do
    well to avoid following our example so closely as to create a government
    which is foremost a tool for looting everyone for the benefit of whoever
    gains favor, but that's probably too much to hope for.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 75819
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Caller ID
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 12:16:41

      >> The Caller-ID option sounds great.

    Not exactly.  The Caller ID option is great AS LONG AS the caller has the
    option of blocking out his number when he makes the call.

    Think about it.  Do you want EVERYBODY you call to automatically have a
    record of your number?  Including businesses who will use it to pester and
    deluge you with junk calls, or sell it to other businesses?  (The chief use
    of Caller ID in terms of dollars will be those who make a profit out of it
    in this way.)  Do you want everybody you call to see your number EVEN THOUGH
    you may have taken the trouble to get an unlisted number to protect your own
    privacy?

    Caller ID is a serious issue that is being or has been fought in several
    states.  It represents a major change in the way a telephone network
    operates with respect to the balance of power (information is power) between
    the caller and the recipient.  Before Caller ID, every caller using his own
    phone could assume anonymity.  Now that is no longer true.  It is
    potentially a serious threat to the privacy of the caller, unless the
    caller is also provided with the option of blocking his number on making the
    call.  We need some awareness of this issue around here.

    Message: 75820
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Caller ID
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 12:28:35

            Those who have a blocking service will find I will not answer the
    phone.  If you wish to call me, I had better know who you are.  As for the
    BBS, it will not do a carrier detect till it gets a caller ID number.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 75821
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Question?
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:48:03

    Are you telling me your equipment can see the caller ID now, Cliff?

    (Nah, that doesn't make sense.  Otherwise you'd know who was Jeff Beck and
    who wasn't, instead of having to guess all the time...)

    Message: 75822
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod (1/3)
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:49:21

    Thanks for telling us about your "vacation".  Your experience was a truly
    symbolic one, and there are important lessons to be learned from it.

    When somebody has a disorder, whether it lies in the body or in the mind,
    the disorder often causes pain.  The pain is a symptom of the disorder, but
    it's not the disorder itself.  Nevertheless, it's usually the pain that
    presents the most immediate and noticeable indication to the sufferer.

    Pain exists for a reason.  It's there to tell us that there's something
    wrong, that we ought to find out what it is that's wrong and go fix it,
    otherwise we may end up in worse shape, or even dead.  Seeking the cause and
    fixing it is the right course of action.  But for the sufferer, the pain IS
    the problem, and all too often the temptation is simply to block the pain
    itself, rather than dealing with the root cause.

    Many drugs exist to block pain, and they have a legitimate use when nothing
    can profitably be done to stop the cause of the pain.  But at other times,
    drugs do nothing but mask symptoms, allowing the underlying disorder to rage
    on unchecked.

    Message: 75823
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod (2/3)
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:50:13

    Sometimes the disorder is not in the body but in the mind.  These disorders
    too can have their cure -- but not unless they are examined.  All too often
    people believe that psychic pain has no cause, that it is just "there".  Yet
    their natural instincts tell them to medicate themselves.

    So they do -- with drugs, with large amounts of alcohol, and with nature's
    own medication: the blocking of their own awareness.  One can hardly blame
    them for this, since other people encourage them to do it.  Drugs are
    products that make money for people.  Much of the medical establishment
    actually encourages such behavior.  Many people who are troubled enough to
    seek psychiatric help are sent away with inappropriate drugs that mask the
    symptoms of their problems, instead of investigating the problems
    themselves.

    This is why it's futile to wage a "war on drugs" -- as if "drugs" themselves
    were the problem, when for so many people their use of drugs is only the
    symptom of another problem that nobody wants to tackle.

    Message: 75824
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod (3/3)
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 13:51:12

      RW> I knew I was coming out of shock when the pain started returning.

    This was a perfect reminder of the experience of Douglas Bader, a British
    flier who lost both his legs in an airplane crash around 1932.  Bader
    recalled that after the accident and having both his legs amputated he was
    lying in a hospital bed drifting away nicely, feeling nothing at all.
    Vaguely he heard somebody outside his room talking loudly.  Then he heard a
    nurses's voice saying "Shhh!  Don't make so much noise.  There's a young man
    dying in there."

    He lay there and thought about it, until the nurse's words sank in.  "Does
    she mean me?" he asked himself.  "Me dying?  I'm not dying!"

    And from that moment on, the pain came back in his legs.  Making the
    decision not to die, but to fight instead, was extremely painful.

    Bader recovered.  He went on to practice walking on artificial legs.  When
    they told him he would never walk again without crutches, he retorted that
    he would never walk *with* crutches.  He threw his crutches away immediately
    and learned to walk on the legs alone.  He went on to drive a car, and
    ultimately to fly an airplane again.  He flew Spitfires in WWII, was shot
    down, then imprisoned as a POW.  The Germans put him in Colditz because he
    kept trying to escape, in spite of being legless.  Quite a remarkable man.

    Message: 75825
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod...
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 14:23:37

            Hey, Good posts there Rod, you explained your adventure (in pain)
    rather well.   I enjoyed it....    Grin!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 75826
    Author: $ Felix Cat
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: Rog{r
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:18:29

    Re:  On the other hand, we could blame the Republicans since they have held
    the Presidential office for over ten years

    It's not the Republicans or the Fundamentalists.  I know what the cause is.
    Once I explain the cause, you will all understand, and if we all join
    together we can eradicate the cause of "Child Abuse!"

    An in depth survey has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the cause is
    "mashed potatoes!"  In 97.3% of the child abuse cases examined, it was
    determined that "mashed potatoes" were eaten by the abuser within a 24 hour
    period prior to the abuse.  In case after case it was discovered that people
    who were repeat "child abusers", consumed "mashed potatoes" on a regular
    basis.  The data is overwhelming.

    The only correct course of action is to abolish mash potatoes from our diet.
     Who will join me in this worthwhile crusade??

    Message: 75827
    Author: $ Felix Cat
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Gordon
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:28:39

    Re:  Think about it.  Do you want EVERYBODY you call to automatically have a
    record of your number?

    I have nothing to hide.  My number is right there in the phone book.  I
    intend to have "Caller ID" as soon as it is available here.  It is already
    available in other places.  There is already a ton of various devices
    available to decode the called ID signal.

    And "no" it is not already here for those who know how to decode it.

    Message: 75828
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: Abuse Crusade
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:43:10

    Quite frankly, I always thought it was Lima Beans that caused abuse. (Lima
    Beans are a vegetable I would gladly get rid of)

    Message: 75829
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: FELIX/ABUSE
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 15:53:20

      Ah, but it is also documented that 98.1 percent of the VICTIMS of child
    abuse had consumed cow's milk within 24 hours of being abused. Data strongly
    suggests that milk must trigger some reaction in those around the user
    making them want to attack. Since children are much easier to attack, and
    tend to drink more milk, they suffer the bulk of the dairy related abuse.
       See You Later,
         Dean (covering for Rod in the anti-milk crusade until he recovers) H.

    Message: 75830
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Thanks
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 17:47:48

    Thanks for the various comments on my posts.  Yes Ann, I had that baby
    yanked out at 1 P.M. today.  It took less than five minutes.  I never liked
    that particular tooth as it was wedged inbetween two others.  I like space
    between my teeth as I find it easier to relax.  When my mouth is at ease
    then my brain has less trouble following suit.

    Cliff, I'm glad you enjoyed it too.  It sure added a bit more depth to my
    life and I am always appreciative of depth.

    Michael, I realize what you have said and I feel the same way.  I just
    didn't realize that the problem would be that severe.  I was going to have
    it taken care of on the coming Monday.  My dentist has a family and I'm sure
    he sees enough tooth ache related events during his normal working period.
    Dentists have a high rate of suicides because of seeing so much pain.
    Whenever I see him I make sure I smile and laugh as much as possible.  I
    become like a robot in his chair and only allow emotion to escape through
    the wiggling of my toes.

    Gordon, excellent posts.  I remember hearing about Bader and the loss of his
    legs and how he learned to fly his Spitfire again.

    I too realized that to die on my family at this particular moment was not
    correct.  And it was easy to push back the 'cloud' and rejoin the living.
    The only hard part was leaving the peaceful realm of energy.

    It is obvious that I could go out on the street today and die in a traffic
    acccident but that would be different.  I do have a healthy fear of driving
    and whenever I enter an expressway I take a deep breath.  Thank you for the
    posts.

    Message: 75832
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul "no lawyer"
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 17:50:41

    Of course you aren't a lawyer, you're a clown.  (SHOOTING MSG.)

    Message: 75833
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Potty training
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 18:01:15

    I have eight children and feel that I am qualified to comment on this
    subject.

    Pick a place for the potty and let the child know where it is.  Keep the
    diapers off the child during the day.  Explain to the child what the potty
    is for.  Take the child into the bathroom and show them the correct
    procedure.

    Now, when the child messes on the carpet or tile floor then (let's assume it
    was #2) gently take the child and with your hand on the back of his head
    (they have small heads and very weak muscles during this period) rub it in
    the bowel movement until it goes from ear to ear.

    Then the next procedure is quite obvious.  Set the child on the potty.

    This procedure never takes more than a week unless you have a real stubborn
    kid.

    I can't take credit for this cure as I read it in Dr. Spocks book on child
    rearing.

    The only problems that I have observed is the child, even when full grown
    will only use an infant's potty chair.  But the cure for this is to sign
    them up for the military branch of your preference.      -Rod

    Message: 75834
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bye animals
    Date: 06/19/91  Time: 18:04:27

    Okay, I got this straight from my crystal ball.  The earth is about to shift
    magnetic poles again.  Soon we will be like those mound builders and Stone
    Hedge people, among others.

    A lot of interesting events are taking place in and around this planet at
    this very moment.  Remember to set your clocks back one hour when it occurs.

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