### Apollo BBS Archive - May 23, 1998

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    Message: 3474
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod/Wages
    Date: 05/22/88  Time: 23:38:20

      What kind of talent does it take to work at Circle K? You have to be able
    to make change, push a broom, stock shelves, and push lottery tickets. The
    company probably provides the highly technical training required to operate
    the coffee and popcorn machines themselves. You and I could do this work
    quite easily. The clerks at Circle K could not do either your job or mine
    because they have not invested the time and money it takes to learn them.
    That is why we don't have to work as hard and still make more than they do.
    Our labor is worth more because we accomplish a much more knowledge
    intensive task which a far smaller number of people are capable of learning
    or performing.
      Even though places like Circle K provide the tremendous service of
    employing many unskilled workers, that is not the reason they exist. Those
    jobs were created because someone risked an investment to create them.
    If you increase the risk to that investment by forcing them to distribute
    a percentage of the gross to non-investors against their will and
    regardless of profit/loss and cost/benefit considerations then the result
    will be a reduction in such investment and the resulting jobs.
      Incidentally, in order to be chattel the clerks would have to be owned by
    Circle K. Since Hamilton once worked there and now speaks freely about
    them we can assume that their employees retain their rights as citizens.
      See you later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 3475
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hathaway
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 00:47:17

    Excellent points.  There is something to be said for profit-sharing in some
    cases (and it is always available as an option to anyone who works for a
    company that is publicly held).  But to force it on companies raises all the
    problems you mentioned.  There is another problem, too:  what if the company
    loses money?  Should the employees be required to absorb the loss?  (This is
    also an interesting problem with Marx's labor theory of value.)

    Message: 3476
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Hamilton/Circle K
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 04:12:04

    They would fire you?  That is a pretty strange policy.  As Rod said, we
    sometimes go up at a little before 1am, and watch all the people try to rush
    and buy alcohol.  Of course the more fun cases are at 1:01 when the severely
    drunk people try to argue with the clerk.

    But sometimes after all the 'crazies' had left I would talk to the clerk,
    and she told me that she had gotten robbed two or three times.  They even
    had what looked like a small speaker, but was actually a small camera that
    the clerks would have to activate when they got robbed.

    Obviously Circle K is getting what they pay for.  I don't think that they
    can get truly good workers if they aren't willing to pay appropriately.  I
    think they used to require all workers to take polygraph test before they
    would hire you.  In most cases the manager of the store doesn't get over
    $6.50an hour!

    Message: 3477
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Last....
    Subject: Circle K
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 07:53:12

       I believe it is official comapany (here it comes) "Policy" to fire
    employees on duty during a theft, in case they were an acomplice to the
    robber.  Not all managers carry this policy out, though.  I do know of one
    person that was notified of her firing while she was still in the hospital,
    from injuries she got when the robber beat her.
       I didn't work for Circle K -- I worked for an independent, mostly on
    weekends.  Three shifts usualy; Friday and Saturday graveyard, and Sunday
    afternoon.  It was fun, shooing out the drunks that staggered in after 1am.
       I didn't get my current job because of an investment in education and
    training -- I got it because I "exagerated" on my application, and wore a
    nice tie to the interview.  They never knew the difference.
       My complaint with convienence store wages is that they bear no relation
    to either the cost to the employee of providing his services, or to the
    amount of profit generated by the employee.  It's just a rather arbitrary
    figure set by management, take it or leave it.  Since to "leave it" means
    you'll starve, most have little choice but to take it.  I sure didn't -- I
    had 15 days to get a job, or I'd be on the street.  I had no car, and had
    already sold everything of value I had.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 3478
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: C-Kay
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 11:48:12

            If there were no LOW end jobs to fill in between the bigger jobs,
    then you Mr A-L-A-N would not have gotten the job when you needed it so
    badly.  Instead of being thankfull you found a fill in job to keep you off
    the street, you curse it....????
            Ya just can't please Elves nowdays... tisk tisk tisk...

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:CK

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     1:        It takes talent to deal with people.  I think a store should be run
     2:like a ship, everyone sharing in the profits as well as the hardships.  If
     3:there is a loss then the employees had better tighten up and try harder.
     4:(Err...pirate ship)
     5:        Workers should have pride in their employment and run it together
     6:like a big family.  A single entity should not get the lions share of the
     7:profits, being able to live like a king while his employees struggle for the
     8:necessities.
     9:        You are correct Dean, they aren't chattel, we rent or lease
    10:ourselves out, usually to the highest bidder.
    11:        We live in a cold country as far as employment goes.  Too bad.  But
    12:I guess it's okay as long as Eller goes to church regularly and gives to the
    13:poor.
    14:        Just joking.
    15:                                Rod
    16:edn
    17:end

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    Message: 3479
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: CK
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 13:51:34

            It takes talent to deal with people.  I think a store should be run
    like a ship, everyone sharing in the profits as well as the hardships.  If
    there is a loss then the employees had better tighten up and try harder.
    (Err...pirate ship)
            Workers should have pride in their employment and run it together
    like a big family.  A single entity should not get the lions share of the
    profits, being able to live like a king while his employees struggle for the
    necessities.
            You are correct Dean, they aren't chattel, we rent or lease
    ourselves out, usually to the highest bidder.
            We live in a cold country as far as employment goes.  Too bad.  But
    I guess it's okay as long as Eller goes to church regularly and gives to the
    poor.
            Just joking.
                                    Rod

    Message: 3480
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Rebuttal
    Subject: Last
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 18:30:19

    You're such an ignoramus, Williams.
    I'm still suprised that you even have the brain power to operate a
    telephone in order to call this BBS.
    If one person gets the Lion's share (as you put it) of the profits from any
    company, that is their property and burden. THEIRS alone.
    No-one has the right to forcefully by any means to steal or however take
    away those gains from said individual. Private ownership is the fundemental
    basis of Capitalism. If you had 3 apples and I had only one, is it my RIGHT
    to take one of yours to make it equal? Maybe in your lepers soup Government,
    but here it is survival of the fittest. That can be harsh and cruel in many
    ways but it has just as many redeeming features if not more than Communism.
    You're the type of Hypocritical loony tune that goes around blubbering about
    the poor and pitiful, always saying the grass is greener on the other side.
    Yet you do ***NOTHING*** to absolve these self acclaimed
    woes of society. You're a PIG CAPITALIST Rod, self loving whore of
    materialistic wealth compared to millions of others in this World.
    It's not the ugly coat of hypocrasy that makes you stink, it's the
    self indulgent deliberate idiocy you inflict upon yourself like an
    Ostrich burying its head in the sand.

    Go suck an egg, A$$HOLE.                        -Mike

    Message: 3481
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hamilton
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 19:46:08

    You object to convenience store wages because they are not determined by
    the "cost to the employee of providing his services" or "the amount of
    profit generated by the employee."  Obviously you lack the most basic
    understanding of how prices are set in a free market.

    Suppose a clothing store has a shirt that sells for $20.  You pay $20 for
    the shirt.  That means (1) the shirt is worth at least $20 to you, and (2)
    the shirt is worth $20 or less to the store.  When prices are set freely,
    rather than dictated by government, they represent a compromise between
    the needs of buyers and sellers.  If no one is willing to buy the shirt for
    $20, the store will lower its price.  If demand for shirts is high, the
    store may raise its price.  Success in a free market is determined by how
    well you meet the needs of others:  if consumers like the shirt, the store
    will sell more of them at higher prices.

    It is no different with labor.  When you take a job, the wages you are paid
    are a compromise between you and your employer.  Your employer is willing to
    pay you less than the maximum he could pay you and still break even.  You
    are willing to work only for more than your time and effort are worth to
    you.  When you agree with your employer on the terms of your employment,
    neither of you is gaining at the expense of the other:  it is a mutually
    beneficial exchange--and one that is based precisely on the factors you
    mentioned:  the profitability to the employer and the cost to the employee
    of working.

    Message: 3482
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 19:47:26

    A store ought to be run like a ship, eh?  OK, why don't you start a store of
    your own and try running it like "a ship" and see how well it does.  (I
    would be interested in seeing how many employees you are able to attract
    with the promise that they will have to absorb your losses if you're
    unsuccessful).

    Message: 3483
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: JT/Marx
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 21:46:19

      I think Marx went so far wrong in assigning no value to the management
    segment of business that no other fault is really needed to make the
    whole economic philosophy worthless. Management not only assumes the
    risks, but it makes the whole enterprise possible through creative acts
    which can not come from the labor segment.

      See you later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 3484
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod/Wages
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 21:47:09

      In your system would everyone share the profits and hardships equally,
    would each be rewarded according to their contributions, or would each be
    rewarded according to their needs?

      See you later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 3485
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 01:29:37

            How did you find out, who told you?, my daughter, Busy dials the
    phone for me.  Hmmmm, who is the R-a-t?

    Message: 3486
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 01:31:56

            Any may ye have lots of children.  Odds are that some of them will
    be bag people, some will have their house repossessed and most of them will
    be minimun hourly employees of Pete's Fish and Chips.
                                    Me

    Message: 3487
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: JT/Ship
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 01:35:11

            I have trained no less than nine locksmiths.  Each locksmith reaps
    what he sows.  I take nothing and this is how it should be.
            Some people are willing to work for $hit wages because they are in
    desparate need of that second job in order to make ends meet.

    Message: 3488
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 01:45:17

            I would say that each person needs a home and at least one acre of
    land.  I would say that they need enough food for everyone in their family
    to maintain on.  I think that hardships should be shared by all.
            I think it is too  bad that people need stupid rules and regulations
    in order to live by instead of a sense of kinship with each other.
            I think this world is ignorant of basic friendship to its members.
    I would sure hate to have my space ship crash land on this planet and have
    to spend more than a week getting it repaired.  I doubt I would even survive
    that long, to tell the truth, I would be shot on sight.
            Most people on earth are either into a religion or a cause like the
    KKK or both.  Reagan (our president) even said that he believes armageddon
    will come real soon.  This was the president of the United States talking.
    What does that say for our people?, Not much.  Swaggart and Roberts are
    still collecting millions.  What does that say for us?  Very little.
            We live in a cess pool of ignorance.  Do you doubt this?
                                    See you later,
                                    Rod

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:JN
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    Message: 812
    Author: $ Rod Bias
    Category: Review/Critique
    Subject: Bible
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 00:54:09

    Good start.  You really are an expert on the Bible aren't you?
    But I thought this was supposed to begin at dawn.

    What's you next favorite verse?

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    Message: 459
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 11:18:52

    Okay.

    Home of the Nuts Bulletin Board command:JN

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    Message: 52303
    Author: Apro Poet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Illuminatus
    Date: 05/22/88  Time: 20:59:44

      "Authority?"  I asked, realizing I'd lost something along
    the way.  We were slowing to a walk, the action was behind
    us.
      "A is not A," Hagbard explained with that tiresome
    patience of his.  "Once you accept that A *is* A, you're
    hooked.  Literally hooked, addicted to the System."
      I caught the reference to Aristotle, the old man of the
    tribe with his unfortunate epistemological paresis, and also
    to that feisty little lady I always imagine is really the
    lost Anastasia, but I still didn't grok.  "What do you
    mean?"  I asked, grabbing a wet handkerchief as some of the
    teargas started to drift to our end of the park.
      "Chairman Mao didn't say half of it," Hagbard replied
    holding a handkerchief to his own face.  His words came
    through muffled: "It isn't only political power that grows
    out of the barrel of a gun.  So does a whole definition of
    reality.  A set.  And the action that has to happen on that
    particular set and on none other."
      "Don't be so bloody patronizing," I objected, looking
    around a corner in time and realizing this was the night I
    would be Maced.  "That's just Marx: the ideology of the
    ruling class becomes the ideology of the whole society."
      "Not the ideology.  The Reality." he lowered his
    handkerchief. ...

    Message: 52304
    Author: Apro Poet
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Illuminatus
    Date: 05/22/88  Time: 21:09:33

    "This was a public park until they changed the definition.
    Now the guns have changed the Reality.  It *isn't* a public
    park.  There's more than one kind of magic."
      "Just like the Enclosure Acts," I said hollowly.  "One day
    the land belonged to the people.  The next day it belonged
    to the landlords."
      "And like the Narcotics Acts," he added.  "A hundred
    thousand harmless junkies became criminals overnight, by Act
    of Congress, in nineteen twenty-seven.  Ten years later, in
    thirty-seven, all the pot-heads in the country became
    criminals overnight, by Act of Congress.  And they really
    were criminals, when the papers were signed.  The guns prove
    it.  Walk away from those guns, waving a joint, and refuse
    to halt when they tell you.  Their Imagination will become
    your Reality in a second."
      And I had my answer to Dad, finally, just as a cop jumped
    out of the darkness screaming something about freaking
    motherf*cking fag commies and Maced me, as was certain to
    happen (I knew it as I crumpled in pain) on that set.

    Message: 52305
    Author: John Jensen
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: DRUGS
    Date: 05/22/88  Time: 21:53:07

    Why shouldn't Pot be legalized? No research has conclusevly shown Pot to be
    even near as harmfull alcohol, tobacco, or even overeating or any other
    addiction.  tobacco kills more people than all illegal drugs combined!  So
    does alcohol!  On the other hand, the commercial values of Pot are flat
    astonishing!  Pot is hemp.  Hemp can be made into paper, rope, or clothes.
    It makes a fine grade paper and the raw material in five times greater
    abundance per acre! - with lower harvesting cost.  This would provide an
    enormous boost to the economy.
    Why not?  I can tell you.  Many Immigration officials and diplomatic
    curriers would lose money in bribes and distribution profits!
    JOHN
    JENSEN

    Message: 52306
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: Tonights
    Date: 05/22/88  Time: 23:27:41

            It was fun, saw the film on the rocket.  It lasted longer than the
    rocket GT.   After eating at Ed D's, I called Nick a "BUM" and left in a
    "HUFF".

    Cliff

    (just kidding) about Nick that is!

    Message: 52307
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rocket GT final
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 04:15:32

    I hear Nick is buying some waitress at Ed Devebic's a new car.  What a guy!

    Message: 52308
    Author: $ Mark Adkins
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Goodbye
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 04:34:29

    This is to terminate my status (and any other) membership of Apollo BBS.
    Why should I waste my time around a group which is largely comprised of
    malicious, backstabbing, honorless people?
        Recently, certain intimate telephone conversations of mine were taped,
    without my knowledge or consent, and then played for the amusement of
    others.  Those people who committed and facilitated this act, and who were
    not a party to the conversation, have committed a criminal act.  This, in
    and of itself, is insignificant.  More importantly, they betrayed my trust
    and whatever degree of friendship I had previously offered.
    Of the people who listened to this tape, or had knowledge of its existence,
    and who did not notify me, as they should have, I give you my utter
    contempt.  These people include David Burkhart, and James Taranto, and also
    Nick Ianuzzi, who was present in Jasmine Williams' shop, where and at the
    time, one of the recordings was made.
        To those actively participating, which definately include James Hawley,
    Christian and Eve Williams, I want you to know that you will be dealt with
    somewhat more severely.  I think I've made myself clear on that, but in case
    there is some doubt or ambiguity present in your minds, let me make it a
    matter of public record.
    It was poor judgement indeed for you to have chosen me to match malicious
    wit against.  Life is short and sweet; enjoy it.

    Message: 52309
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: "Unholy" Ann
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 06:03:06

    Don't come on tome with that line of garbage Ann! All you are trying
    (unsuccessfully) to do is justify your miserable addiction to a drug that
    has no function other than your early termination, and you know it in your
    heart!
     You bet your bippie I'm a militant ex-smoker, and ex-drinker! One who cares
    enough about YOU to at least try to jar some sense into your head. WHen I
    quit both, about 15 years ago, I had a 32 year old habit of 3 1/2 packs a
    day, and a slightly younger habit of somthing averaging a case of 16 oz.
    bottles of beer a day. I was 40 years old, an emaciated 125 lbs., never had
    to worry too much about a hangover (I had a constant blood alcohol level),
    and really "enjoyed" the fringe benefits of my smoking habit. THings such as
    the racking cough in the night that usually wound up in gagging until my
    last beer almost came up, and the cigarette burn holes in so may of my
    clothes, to say nothing of the furniture, carpet, etc. as well as the fact
    that even my best friends who were non smokers always tried their best to
    sit downwind, due to the "lovely" fragrance that always emanates from the
    heavey smoker, even though the smoker doesn't realize it.
    So go ahead Ann. Keep on telling yourself those lies about how much pleasure
    those little cancer sticks give you, and keep on ignoring all the real FACTS
    concerning the ingestion of all that poison into your system. I'm sure that
    your loved ones will enjoy your slow but sure decline into oblivion while
    they stand by helplessly, watching your self destruction.
    (Fact- it's harder to quit nicotine than it is to quit mainline heroin. Ask
    any junkie! I'e heard that from their own lips!)

    Message: 52310
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann, again
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 06:58:24

    You stated in a more recent message to Clif that you too enjoy the smell of
    the fresh air when you go to the mountains.
    Sorry, gal. That is NOT a statement of fact. THe truth is that the years of
    your addiction have robbed you of both the delicate taste buds and the sense
    of smell that is needed for such pleasures. Everything you taste or smell
    has the flavor of nicotine, and that's a fact!

    Message: 52311
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul - I didn't know
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 08:36:31

    If that was the way your life was at one time, then I heartily congratulate
    you on what you've done with it. That would take a lot of courage on your
    part. I've seen a lot of people like you discribed of yourself over the
    years, and usually, they do not come out of it.
    Regardless of what you may think - I am not like that at all especially
    where the cigarettes are conserned. I do not even have a cough and you can
    believe that or not! And I enjoy smoking. I have quit many times over the
    years for different reasons - a case of Broncitus - a bad cold - no money
    etc. etc. - all those times, the shortest was over two years. I started
    again because I CHOOSE to, not because of an addiction, because it was long
    since passed. As far as with drawal symptoms - I saw no difference in smell
    or taste - I was more hyper, nervous and therefore, ate more for want of
    something to do, but that passed in a couple of months. People ARE different
    Paul regardless of what you may think. As far as drinking - I too enjoy that
    and admit it redily - but here again, I am not like you were. I have a drink
    at home a couple times a week and usually two or three over the week end
    because we go out to eat often. Once in a while, maybe once every two
    months, we go to a bar and shoot pool and I might have five drinks and yes,
    I am at least half drunk. (we walk home!) but I suffer no hangover or the
    D.T.s from such an act. I don't do these things because I don't enjoy them.
    Once in awhile, I don't drink for weeks at a time - because I don't want to.
    You want me to admit things - why don't you admit that people are different?
    =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 52312
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Hard Times!
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 08:47:22

    Said in the paper today - Jimmy Swaggert is back in the pulpit - poor guy -
    his donations are below $350.000 a day - compared to $500,000 per day
    before the scandal! First thing you know, he'll be collecting welfare.
    =*--ANN--*=

    Message: 52313
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/Ann
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 12:05:05

            Wow, after reading Pauls post, I think I will quit smoking...
    and I do not even smoke.
            But poor Ann, the true tobacco addict she is defends her reasons.
    Ann claims she gets hyper with out the drug, but then claims she is not
    addicted????  Fact is... it is HARMFUL!  How can anyone enjoy putting black
    slimmy crap in their lungs?

            Ann, we all LOVE you so much... that is why we do not wish to see
    you destroy yourself with the tobacco drug.

    Cliff

    Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:Drugs

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     1:        In order to properly solve the drug (alcohol, tobacco, cocaine,
     2:marijuana, heroin, glue, etc.) problem that we have in this nation, it is
     3:first important that we solve our social ills.  Stresses, both just and
     4:unjust will cause a person to 'have a drink' or a joint in order to 'relax'.
     5:        When the 'rent' is due and the transmission is out on the car or
     6:when the first of the month is close, many people tighten up.
     7:        When it is possible for the majority of the humans to be able to
     8:secure a place to live that is safe from 'gross' capitalism then and onkly
     9:then will stresses abate.
    10:        When our struggle is over, drugs will not be thought of because
    11:feeling good will then be a natural.  We can feel good by looking into our
    12:childrens eyes and knowing that their road through life will not be met with
    13:the same difficulties that we had to face.
    14:        I do not see the solution to alleviate our stresses in our near
    15:future therefore look forward to lots of substance abuse by the masses.  The
    16:rule is, the more stresses, the more drugs used by the individual.
    17:                                Rod
    18:end

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    Message: 52315
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: recent events
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 15:29:35

    What would happen if Mark Adkins and Jeff Johnson had an argument?

    Message: 52316
    Author: Apro Poet
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: Stranger Than FACT
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 17:33:03

                          Baby Bigfoot Sighted!
    Rumors persist of a Giant Toddler who roams Yellowstone Park
                     at dusk on alternate Thursdays.

      The sixty-foot baby, clad only in a diaper and carrying a
    huge bottle, is said to be either from another planet or a
    mutation resulting from the accidental nuclear bombing of a
    day-care center in the late fifties.
      Reports are that the child tends to be friendly, except
    when hungry.  Then he often mistakes homes and autos for his
    long-lost toys and likes to put them in his mouth as
    pacifiers.  Huge teeth marks are not uncommon on both houses
    and cars in the area.
      Local child protection agencies advocate a cautious yet
    affectionate approach to those encountering the Toddler,
    stressing the fact that despite his size, he's still an
    infant.
      General Deke Hawkins of the Arizona Air Force Reserve
    takes a harder line, which is succinctly expressed in his
    often quoted maxim, "Spare the bombs and spoil the child."
      Hawkins was also recently reprimanded by the Pentagon for
    a televised interview in which he said he'd like nothing
    better than to lure the infant into climbing a tall building
    so that he could shoot it off with Word War I biplanes.

    Message: 52317
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Adkins
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 18:04:23

    Did I miss something?
    How could you ever expect any of the Williams family to be trustworthy
    or honest?
    With Rod Williams as the head of the clan, that is the least probable of
    all outcomes from any affiliation with them.
    Sorry to see you go Mark, even though we've had some disaggreements, it`s
    a sad day when a good natured soul gets burnt by the toxic waste of society.

            -Mike

    Message: 52318
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: War!
    Subject: Smoke
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 18:12:44

    I've kept my mouth shut about quitting for quite some time now because
    in the past, I have announced I was quitting and it seemed to CURSE my
    efforts. Well, I can say that I have finally QUIT as it has been a few
    months now and I rarely even think of it.

    Now.

    There is nothing WORSE than an EX-Smoker against smokers. Having the guts
    and defiance to quit is only half of it. The other half comes from common
    sense. Lazy, spineless jelly fish have more strength than a defiant smoker.
    Smokers are only addicted because they allow it to be so.
    Like the drunkard who refuses to dry out.
    Like the faggot who refuses to acknowledge truth.
    Like the drug addict who refuses to stop.
    Like the helpless Rod Williams who refuse to learn.
    Like the mindless wars created by mindless governments.
    It's just a denial of fact. An escape from truth because the truth is always
    harder to face when you are in the pit of $#!+.

    When you stop denying the truth, then you can truly be free.

              -Mike

    Message: 52319
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 19:30:14

    You realize, of course, that that is pure nonsense.  Many people have
    financial problems and do not use drugs, and many people who are quite
    secure financially do use drugs.  There is not one shred of evidence to
    support your claim that economics is the root of the drug problem.

    Message: 52320
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Adkins
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 19:30:34

    Go get 'em!

    Message: 52321
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Rod/Drugs
    Date: 05/23/88  Time: 20:20:27

      Yeah, what do you have to support your claims of economic reasons for drug
    abuse, you manifesto-punk?
      See you later,
         Dean H.

    Bulletin Board command:EC

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    Subject:economics/punk

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        The ghetto.
     2:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 52322

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    Subject:Adkins

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        Go get 'em boy!

    Message: 52324
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: drugs/poor
    Date: 05/24/88  Time: 02:01:10

            Many of the pseudo-wealthy,the up and coming yuppie type are subject
    to a lot of stresses and they seem to favor cocaine and/or alcohol.  The
    'project' people favor crack (which is pure euphoria for 20 minutes) and
    heroin.  Straight middle-class people either do prescription tranquilizers
    or their favorite wine.  The middle class blue collar people dig pot and
    beer.
            Because our society is basically not happy, because no one can
    really look their children in the eye and promise them a good world, because
    there is a need to feel good, there are drugs that can make one forget
    whatever there is to forget.  Heroin makes you forget that the rent is due
    and I guess alcohol does too.
            People who do not have secure housing do not feel secure in thier
    basic nature.  Alcohol and other things help alleviate this feeling for a
    time.  There are very many people in American who feel insecure either from
    housing or thier job or both and drugs wash this feeling away for the
    moment.  That is why people have to keep taking them because thier situation
    stays the same and one reason it does is because they spent their money on
    drugs.  Drugs are expensive as hell but they do the job and nothing else
    made them feel that good, not walking down the street because they may be
    mugged, not writing a nice letter to their landlord because they might get a
    letter telling them thier rent has been raised.
                                            Rod

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