### Apollo BBS Archive - September 16, 1990

    Mail from Jeff Beck
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 02:30:04

    No.

    However, it might be interesting if you did a little research on the subject
    of geomagnetism, and let me know what you found out.  I genuinely have no
    knowledge of the subject, beyond an extremely superficial exposure; although
    I must say that what little I *have* read has convinced me that nobody has a
    really good idea of what makes it work the way it does.  However, most of my
    sources have been at least 15 years old, and by now they may have had a
    breakthrough.  I suggest that, rather than scouring the card catalogue,
    which would probably only turn up some moldy, abstruse books on the subject,
    you use the periodicals computer on the bottom floor of the main branch of
    the Phoenix Public Library and do a search for the string "geomagnetism," or
    failing that, "magnetism," and enter a secondary search string of "Earth" or
    "earth."  That should give some fairly recent magazine titles (which they
    will carry) where you can find some reasonably understandable articles on
    the subject.  These magazines would include Discover, Popular Science, and
    Scientific American, as well as Omni.  Discover would probably be your best
    bet for finding a good, not too technical article.  Popular Science is I
    believe more technology oriented, but I may be wrong.  Scientific American
    is usually rather highbrow, and Omni often too casual, both in content and
    standards, to be of much use.  Good luck.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I'll do a search on the subject but the time I have to visit the Phx. Public
     2:Library is nil.  Really.   I have so many things to do that need to be done
     3:although I don't want to do them but I am forced to by my participation in
     4:this society.
     5:
     6:I will (and you can too) call the ASU computer from my home, (965-7001).  If
     7:you are using 1200 baud then hit the CR five times on log-in.  Choose # 8
     8:which is hardcopy when you are prompted for computer type if your specific
     9:type is not listed.  I have chosen just about all of them with basically the
    10:same results.   Then go to the enclclopedia and do a word search.
    11:
    12:There are a number of ways to log off, one being to simply disconnect and
    13:other is to hit CR/esc./BS/BS and type done.  Or something like that.
    14:
    15:I suspect that magnetism has somehting to do with the beginnings of the
    16:universe.  I'll explain my theory later on when I have more time.
    17:
    18:Rod
    19:
    20:(jerk off for jesus)

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 69642
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last few on Westfall
    Date: 09/15/90  Time: 15:00:23

            Yes Daryl, It does take strong determination to stand on your own
    two feet.  It is easier to reject the Lord and fall into the trap Rod has
    fallen into then it is to accept God's word.  You have friends, and we are
    with you.

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-  God Bless!

    Message: 69643
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Politics
    Subject: 3rd party
    Date: 09/15/90  Time: 16:10:55

    Ray Russell is still saying "no no" but Jerry Gillespie is charging ahead.
    He has to gather 12,000 valid signatures by Friday.  Valid means: registered
    voter, didn't vote in either primary, didn't sign a petition to get another
    candidate on the ballot.

    Message: 69644
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/puzzle
    Date: 09/15/90  Time: 21:08:28

    I did not violate a restricted axiom II.  That is, in my solution,
    x E {M,I,U}.  I simply saw no reason why if Mx allows Mxx, why (Mx)x does
    not allow (Mxx)x.

    Message: 69645
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Darren/sound
    Date: 09/15/90  Time: 21:14:22

    Actually, it depends how you define sound.  Sound is not merely air
    displacement; if it were, we would call any air displacement sound.  We do
    not call tiny, high frequency oscillations like those produced by crystals
    sound, even though they displace air.  Sound implies some biological
    apparatus capable of perceiving and interpreting the waves, whether that
    apparatus belongs to humans, dogs, birds, dolphins, etc.  What is sound with
    reference to a dolphin may not be sound with reference to human beings.
    Sound does not require air as a medium.  One can hear underwater, as well as
    through solid objects.  Remember the fone-bone (or whatever that thing was
    called)?

    Message: 69646
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/Earth magnetism
    Date: 09/15/90  Time: 21:15:00

    I told you, I don't know.

    Message: 69647
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Steve/#2
    Date: 09/15/90  Time: 21:21:16

    Sounds like an explanation from quantum mechanics.  The tree, you see, can
    only occupy discrete positions, and it flits between the standing state and
    the "fallen" state without occupying space in between.  The transition is
    also instantaneous.  One cannot determine the state of the tree with
    complete accuracy from observation, but must resort to statistical
    mechanics.  While no one is observing the tree, it has both states, and
    neither.  Haven't you ever heard of Schrodinger's Elm?

    Message: 69648
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff/Puzzle
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 03:27:51

      You misunderstood the axioms.  Where it says that you may replace "Mx"
    with "Mxx" (where "x" is any string), this applies to entire axioms, not to
    parts of them.  That is you cannot start with "MII", and apply axiom II to
    just the first two characters of the string.  Applying axiom II gives
    "MIIII", because "x" represents "II".
      I think Roger misstated the axiom, by the way, because he restricted "x"
    to being a single character, and it should be any string.

              We all live in a   ____nhnn________   yellow subroutine

    Message: 69649
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/Poles
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 03:31:18

      No, there isn't a big lump of lodestone in Canada, or anything like that.
    The Earth is actually a big magnet, and the poles of the magnet do not line
    up exactly with the axis.
      The latest scientific thoughts on the matter amount to a lot of confusion.
    The magnetic poles move, and every so often change places.
      One theory of the extintion of the dinosaurs blames one of these
    pole-reversals.

              We all live in a   ____nhnn________   yellow subroutine

    Message: 69650
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: War!
    Subject: Roger/Axiom II
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 03:36:41

    RM>  I saw nothing in the text that would lead me to believe that x is a
    RM>  member of the set {M, I, U}, only that x was a suffix of M.

      Then you misstated axiom II incorrectly in your original post on the
    subject.

              We all live in a   ____nhnn________   yellow subroutine

    Message: 69651
    Author: Darren Erickson
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod/All
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 04:41:36

    Thanks, Rod.  I appreciate knowing there are still those out there in BBS
    land that still remember me.
    -----Darren

    Message: 69652
    Author: Darren Erickson
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff/sound
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 04:47:47

    Sorry, Jeff.  I thought since trees were the subject, the medium of
    transmission would be air shockwaves (as Rod suggests.)  I think an
    identical question would be:  If your TV is on at home, and nobody is there
    to watch it, would there be sound?
    Comments?
    -----Darren

    Message: 69653
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Steve/puzzle
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 04:54:50

    I did not "misunderstand" axiom II.  As I stated, I suspected that the
    loophole given was unintentional, but as stated, there was nothing to
    indicate that one could not replace Mx with Mxx, whether Mx was the entire
    string or only a substring.

    Message: 69654
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Darren/sound
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 05:11:58

    I understand that you were addressing the issue in context.  I mentioned the
    fact that sound can travel through solids and liquids, as well as air and
    other gases, to show why we do not regard sound merely as propagated waves,
    but as the perception and interpretation of these waves by biological
    mechanisms.  You must understand that there is nothing to qualitatively
    differentiate one such vibration from another, in this regard, since we call
    various waves sound regardless of the medium of propagation.  If sound,
    then, were any vibratory mechanical wave, we would be forced to call a great
    variety of phenomena sound, far more, in fact, than we customarily do. It
    makes no difference whether one uses a falling tree or a TV speaker as the
    source of these waves. Sound refers to the perception and interpretation of
    certain mechanical waves through material media, and we only speak of sound
    with regard to its experience or possibility of experience by various
    beings. What is sound for some beings may not be sound for others.

    We use the term "light" in the same manner.  There is nothing qualitatively
    different in the narrow spectrum of electro-magnetic radiation which we call
    light.  We call it light because we see by it, just as we call something
    sound because we hear by it.  We have recently taken to referring to
    wavelengths above and below "visible light" as "light" (ultraviolet or
    infrared) because we have discovered that other beings use this light to see
    by, and because we can see by this light ourselves through the intermediary
    of our machinery.

    Message: 69655
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Sandi/3rd party
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 05:36:31

     The focal point of the proposed 3rd party's complaint really has nothing to
    do with the lack of choice between Goddard & Symington, Sandi. It is really
    little more than a bunch of sore losers chewing over their sour grapes
    because the Mecham gang was soundly thrashed. They just refuse to believe
    that not everybody loves them.
     Actually, while their backgrounds are quite similiar, there seems to be
    quite a difference in the political philosophies of the two candidates.
    While Goddard proved himself to be a tax and spend free swinging liberal
    with little regard for the taxpayer's pockets, Symington espouses far more
    conservative leanings. A political unknown, the only thing that bothers me
    is that, being a multimillionare developer, his leanings would be more
    toward the wealthy than the more easily damaged (fiscally) middle class who
    already carry more than their share of the load of the cost of government.

    Message: 69656
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff #69642
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 08:00:19

    Since I am on the question and answers kick, maybe you will comment on
    something you said in that post ... "It is easier to reject the Lord ..etc.
    etc.....! No war intended, by why is it easier to reject the Lord???
    This goes along with my question to Daryl on why does the Devil seemingly
    have much more power than God and has much more the people want!!
    If we were created with all these 'base', bad natures and the good ones too,
    why are we always choosing the baser side and it is so hard to 'be good' so
    to speak? The sexual urge, lust, hatred, along with kindness, humblness,
    goodness is all a part of man's makeup - what makes one so much better than
    the other? Can they not all be put under the umbrella of man's natural
    instinct? If for example, a man 'lusts', be it in his heart or other wise,
    what makes this such a sin? Sometimes, through that lust a lasting
    relationship transpires. And I never did see the difference between wanting
    someone sexually or lusting after them. Arn't they the same? If a person
    lusts after someone that he can't have, belongs to another and their lives
    are distroyed over it, then I can see where this might be called a sin.
    Perhaps the word lust bespeakes of over indulgence - lack of moderation. I
    don't know. Would you care to comment? I'm interested in your point of view
    also. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 69657
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Politics
    Subject: paul/3rd party
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 10:53:59

    Well, that's what many of them say, anyway, whether it's true or not. As
    Mecham put it, Goddard and Symington are "two peas in a pod" to the far
    right in the state; Symington would be an "80% disaster." I'm not saying
    that's what I think, but at least according to what some people have said,
    that's their objection to the governor race.

    Message: 69658
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: School Kid/Democrats
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 11:53:27

            On the TV the other night, a reporter was interviewing children who
    were planning on voting in a mock election.  When one kid was asked who she
    would vote for, she replied "Democrats".  The Reporter quickly asked why
    democrats?  The girl replied, "Because they give money to the poor"
    (shades of Santa)  I could not help but think that someone should tell that
    little girl where the money comes from that the Democrats so freely hand
    out!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 69659
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Civil Rights
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 12:10:49

            Another issue on the ballot that both Goddard and Symington are in
    favor of...The KING day!  Shades of the Phoenix 40 influence....

            First off, we don't need another PAID holiday at TAXpayer expense.
    Second, if we must have a hoilday for 'Civil Rights', leave KING's name off
    of it!

    (What does paying a state employee with a day off, to sit home with a can
    of beer so he can watch a ball game, have to do with Civil Rights?)

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 69660
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: jeff/Mxx
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 13:00:28

    (Mx)x is not the same as Mxx according to axiom II. Remember Mxx ->
    Mxxxx, not Mxx.

    Message: 69661
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: steve/Mxx
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 13:01:56

    Yes, as I was driving around on Saturday, I realized that x does not
    have to be restricted to M, I, and U.

    Message: 69662
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Steve McG/poles
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 14:17:48

    When will another pole shift take place?  When it does will the event cause
    humans to become extinct?

    If the entire earth is a magnet then why do compass needles point to Canada
    instead of straight down?

    Message: 69663
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: the lord
    Date: 09/16/90  Time: 14:18:31

    It is far easier to choose the lord than it is to choose atheism.

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