### Apollo BBS Archive - May 8, 1991

    *=* Post Office entered *=*

    Mail from Dean Hathaway
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 11:39:07

    [A]bort, [N]ew only, [R]ead or [S]kip:Read

    Hi,
       Yeah, that is an interesting concept, "Property is theft." It sort of
    boils down to, "Work is crime", or "Being alive is exploitation."
       It implies that nobody should have property, and also implies that
    to have property is to steal it, but from who? If nobody should have it then
    who is it being stolen from and what do they care?
       To make even the slightest hint of sense it relies on the concept of
    theft, which is the wrongful taking of another's property, and yet its whole
    thrust is that the concept of property ,on which the wrongness of theft
    depends, is invalid.
       It is one of those little prepackaged word bombs which  people throw
    around without much heed, and without realizing that while it seems to
    support a point, it actually melts away into self contradiction if given any
    thought.
       I've put a new carburator on the T-Bird and had the rear suspension
    rebuilt since you saw it last.
       I'm reading a biography of Bill Lear now. It is fascinating. He started
    out fixing radios and then designing radios and components back when radio
    was a brand new field. He got interested in airplanes and developed a lot of
    navigational equipment for them. Later he went on to develop the Lear Jet,
    but I haven't gotten that far in the book yet. I'm only up to about 1945 or
    so. It was amazing how this guy could look at a complex problem he had never
    seen before, and dozens of engineers had worked on for years, and come up
    with a solution in minutes.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:"Property is theft."  To me it means, or could mean that those in the
    'know'
     2:or in the right position such as government or finding themselves with
     3:wealth or both.......the main families of this land....aquiring all of the
     4:land then extracting a great price from people in need of a home sight.  And
     5:that includes every one of us.  Some people are more 'fixed' than others and
     6:never have to wonder much whether they will have shelter in their dying
     7:years.
     8:To me it could be a nightmare if I let it but I figure I'll just die quietly
     9:when the conditions are right.  I have several ways I thought about my
    10:death.  One would be in the mountains where I could just sift back into the
    11:earth and another would be being blown into millions of little flecks in an
    12:instant.  Property is theft also means to me that no one can really own
    13:something because they are only using it for a little while then it goes on
    14:to someone else.  Yes, we can keep things and call them our own and not give
    15:anyone else the right to take them.  But then again what about the family
    16:that never sees a bill (of any kind; dollar bills included) and neither has
    17:to work at a job and can go to the mountains and make a movie or whatever,
    18:anytime they choose and for as long as they want.
    19:Am I jealous?   I guess so.  I see a lifetime of struggle for my children
    20:only because the world is not working together at this time.  So, I try to
    21:impart to them (and everyone else) that, gee.....there AIN'T no law that sez
    22:we have to have a bad world, it's just that the human animal, at this time,
    2 lines left
    23:is not intelligent enough.  Let's try to change it and work together for
    24:once.  It would be great.    (rambling rod)

    Edit command:S

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    Mail from Dean Hathaway
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 12:08:05

    [A]bort, [N]ew only, [R]ead or [S]kip:Read

    Hi,
      I just remembered something else I read in Bill Lear's biography. He once
    was arrested by the FBI and charged with a felony because he took his
    girlfriend, whom he later married, across state lines for 'immoral'
    purposes. The girl's sister didn't want her to see Bill and she fingered him
    to the Feds under the Mann Act.
      They were married before his court date came up and the prosecutor dropped
    the case the day before it was to go to trial. In reading of this archaic
    and incredible invasion of privacy by the government, I could just hear the
    Paul Savage's of the time saying that, just as in the case of drugs and
    homosexuality today, the government was right to crack down.
       The same mentality that wanted this genius imprisoned on 'white slavery'
    charges (as they called it then) wants drug users and gays condemned for
    'crimes against God and man' today. They never change, but fortunately the
    sphere of activities they are allowed to meddle in seems to have shrunk a
    bit.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I hope you are right that the sphere of activities have shrunk for the
     2:people who are mind-fucked.  What is the best, most effective way to hasten
     3:changes?
     4:
     5:I understand that for some reason of physics everything does not happen at
     6:once.  So, I will be patient but if you know of an effective way to bring
     7:about quick change I will listen.
     8:
     9:We live in a freaky-fucking world it seems, only good thing is that it won't
    10:last forever.
    11:
    12:Peter and I have been talking a lot and now we are both on this trip that
    13:causes us to believe the world is basically a bad place to be right now or
    14:at any time in the past.  We are seeking a higher dimension where we can go
    15:and remain.  This dimension would have to include my family or let me go
    16:into the past and start from when I was fifteen.  I would have no previous
    17:knowledge that is specific but would feel within and show without that which
    18:I have now.
    19:This world as I see it makes absolutely no sense, none whatsoever.  I mean,
    20:what in the hell am I doing as a cow tit sucking, burnt flesh eating, human
    21:animal?  Really.  This body or a human body MAY not be the last lifeform I'd
    22:choose but it would not be the first (or the second).
    2 lines left
    23:Maybe living in the country may change my ideas but then I'd not like to see
    24:a farming family be evicted from the land by the duly appointed sheriff. Rod

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...

    As for the message to which you replied...
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue or [Z]ap:Zap

    Post Office command:JN

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press  to abort

    Message: 7351
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Apollo Foundation 91
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:00:50

            Does anyone happen to have the messages I posted last year about the
    Bill Burkett Apollo Foundation Grant?
            It's almost time to begin promoting it for an end-of-July giveaway,
    but I've discovered that the files got lost in the move to a new computer
    system.
            Also, does it offend anyone's sensibilities to have me giving away a
    one-year $tatus membership now that I'm a Cub SysOp?
            Hope I have better luck making the award to someone who'll stick
    around longer -- although Mad Maxx has had good reasons for dropping out.

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Bill

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I have the file you mention.  I also have another file you asked for from a
     2:long time ago.  Just call it laziness.  My schedule is nearly unbelievable
     3:to a lot of people.  I'll see what I can do this weekend between painting,
     4:paneling, ceiling tiling and new carpeting my son's room.  I'll upload both
     5:files to you in Post Office.
     6:
     7:I think a grant is a great idea and I'll support it.  We could start a fund
     8:or at least find a person who loves to debate but cannot afford $tatus and
     9:buy it for him or her, using the funds money.  But a contest idea is good
    10:also.

    *=* X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board entered *=*

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press  to abort

    Message: 4765
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Beyond...
    Subject: previous
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 17:56:43

    They are getting kind of brown aren't they?

    Public Bulletin Board command:$C

    Press  to abort

    Message: 74950
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 05:59:51

     I probably should have known that you weren't merely asking questions to
    get answers, but to scoff and ridicule. Pardon me for bothering to answer.
     Yes, incest is a sin, and strongly condemned. That doesn't mean that nobody
    in the Bible ever did it though. Cain slew Abel, too, and murder is also a
    sin. The Bible is a record of the actions of people, among other things.
    Just because certain people in the Bible did not act according to God's law
    or God's will doesn't make that action right just because it is in the
    Bible.
     Now why don't you go and ridicule those little dirty books that you write
    out of your little dirty mind?

    Message: 74951
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 06:02:03

     You might venture to say that most drug users do not have their lives
    altered by the junk.
     Why don't you try asking the spouses and children of those addicts who
    neglect their families so that they can serve their real god, the next fix?

    Message: 74952
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Peter/logic?
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 06:05:28

    No Peter, but it is saying that the family of a drunk driver should be able
    to pint a finger of blame at the bartender (assuming there was one) who
    allowed him to get in that condition and then drive.

    Message: 74953
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul Harris
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 06:12:30

    Well, for one thing, the alcohol and tobacco related deaths cold be lumped
    in with the drug deaths as well, since those two things are nothing if they
    are not dangeros drugs.
     As to the other problems, I am certainly aware that they exist, and
    certainly need to be addressed. The other side of the same coin (money) is
    the millions upon millions that are squandered each year by our benevolent
    government on such things as "scientific" research into such things as
    bovine flatulence, etc. If our leadership had a little better sense of
    values and priorities, there wold be lots of money for the necessary things.
     As to your comment about our ability to manage ourselves, if we were so
    able, how come we are in such a mess in all the areas you mentioned?

    Message: 74954
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: News Today
    Subject:  Drug stuff
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 06:17:29

     Two interesting items appear in the news as of yesterday.
     One is the ongoing saga of MR. Horwitz, the local attorney who thoght he
    could drive as well under the influence of cocaine as he cold sober. The
    result - two detectives dead.
     The other was an article about two pro baseball players seriously injured
    in a one car accident, the fault of the one who was driving - under the
    influence of alcohol.
    When will they ever learn?

    Message: 74955
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Wild Barb
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 07:57:42

    I did READ your post and I still think you're trying to make America have
    more in common with a communist country.  If you believe having a fence
    around your pool will reduce the risk of drowning, put a fence around your
    OWN pool.  Don't encourage the government to get into everyone else's
    backyards when there are already laws requiring locked self-latching gates
    restricting access to backyards with pools.  Put a fence around your bathtub
    while you're at it.

    Message: 74956
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Rod:  Hollander
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:00:07

    > What does it mean to be a Hollander?

    It's like Xaviera, Rod.  Geez.

    (Nice to see you regular again.)

    Message: 74957
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: LOGIC?
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:08:10

    Or that the Smith and Wesson salesman could get the chair or gas chamber
    because the gun he sold was used to murder an innocent victim.

    Message: 74958
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Drug Use
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:09:27

    I am happy to say that the drugs I use (Tenormin and Maxzide) are legal.

    Message: 74959
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Wild Barb
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:14:11

    Wild Barb misses the friendly presence of his old government in his life and
    he wants us to get a taste of the good life.

    Message: 74960
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean on pot
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:37:31

    You are so right and I would guess that if marijuana was ever legalized for
    medical use, it would still be illegal to grow it and use it yourself.
                               *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 74961
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Wild on stats
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:48:57

    Re: "Phoenix has one of the highest rates of child drowing in the country"!

    Phoenix also has the most pools and the hottest weather than any place in
    the country. According to your 'Protect the children theory', then each and
    every pool should be fortified - not just here, but in all states, even
    Alaska. (indoors of course!) *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 74962
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pauley on family
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 08:56:57

    Ah HA! But you see - they wouldn't be neglecting their families so that they
    can get their next fix - they could just jog down to the cornor store ....!

    All kidding aside - these people would neglect their families anyway -
    whether on drugs or not. If they couldn't get drugs, they'd probably be an
    alcoholic and if they couldn't get that, they'd smell glue or something.
                         *>>> ANN O. <<<*

    Message: 74963
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Paul / Genesis Acct.
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 10:45:37

            But how does one justify the theory of humans other than Adam and
    Eve prior to their offspring in light of Genesis 3:20?

    lyraD

    PS: I'm baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

    PPS: To the person who renewed my $tatus: Thank you. (Are you SURE about
    this decision?)

    Message: 74964
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Melissa / Incest
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 10:53:25

            In the propogation of the human race, if one takes at it's word the
    Genesis account which records only one man and one woman at the beginning of
    creation, one must also accept the fact that incest would have to be
    necessary for the human race to continue at all.
            In the light of the Old Testament laws set down regarding sexual
    relations (Leviticus 18), a time had come when the human race had
    sufficiently populated the regions and one did not need to look to one's own
    siblings for a mate.

    lyraD

    Message: 74965
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Greetings & Rehis
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 10:57:18

            I have been gone for some time. Well, I haven't really been GONE,
    but the computer has been "mothballed." Work and family have kept me so busy
    that I have had little time for recreational pursuits. (I'm also without a
    television/monitor so at the moment I am sitting in the living room with
    peripherals and wires strung all over the floor while I'm using the TV in
    here as a monitor. If someone out there happens to have a small B&W or Color
    television that they are not using and could lend me for a while, it would
    be much appreciated.)
            To the person who paid for my $tatus renewal, whomever you are, just
    know that your action was very much appreciated. Thank you.

    lyraD

    Message: 74966
    Author: $ Michael James
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 13:38:35

    Is seaweed what they're using?  I think I read that the "91% Fat Free"
    McLean burger still got more than 50% of its calories from fat.

    I liked the comedian who said, "If McDonald's really gave a damn about
    anybody's health, don't you think they would just CLOSE?"

    (Now Dean's going to jump all over my case for criticizing a company that
     people freely choose to buy products from.)

    Message: 74967
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: For sale
    Subject: Amber Monitor (rca)
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 15:24:51

            I have a nice WORKING amber RCA type monitor (not TTL) for sale.
            Great for some of the older type computers  Atari, Commodore etc.
    with RCA output.  Price $25.00 cash... NO SALES TAX

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 74968
    Author: $ Cliff Kolostow
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ice Tea
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 15:33:53

            Boy, I feel so buzzed...  Thank God that Long Island Ice Tea
    ain't yet a crime.  I had a few this afternoon in celibration of getting a
    badly needed check in the mail.  had this been a high from some other drug,
    I am sure Paul would have labled me 'Criminal' and tossed away the key.
    By the way, for my buzz this afternoon, I did not ROB or steal from anyone
    to finance this fling at Apple Bee's... along with my trout.

            Why is it against the law to feel good anyway...  Sandy drove me
    home....so I endangered NO ONE!

            Now I am going to crash... Bang on my cheap garage door... I ain't
    there today!  Have at it dudes and dudettes
    $

    Message: 74969
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 16:02:25

    I'm so glad I could ask you for information without you turning to
    personal insults (THAT was sarcasm).
    Thank you, Daryl, for your reply.  Welcome back!

    Message: 74970
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Rod #74949
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 17:54:09

    Yet marijuana is known to cause one to get "hung up" on an
    idea.  HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  But seriously, with all the talk
    about decriminalization, I'm surprised more people don't
    emphasize the distinction between cocaine and coca leaf.
    The traditional South American users of coca leaf seem to
    have no problems with the drug.  This is one of the reasons
    they find it difficult to understand our demands that they
    cut production.  The problems with cocaine appear only after
    Western culture refines the product.  Sure there may be more
    bootleg refining if coca leaf were decriminalized.  I'm just
    puzzled proponents for decriminalization don't build easier
    cases against laws banning mild drugs.

    Message: 74971
    Author: $ Apollo SysOp
    Category: Question?
    Subject: sarcasm
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 18:10:57

            Isn't that a form of personal insult in itself?

    Come on, let's not 'nit-pick'....

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 74972
    Author: $ Wild Barbarian
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: fence around you
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 20:17:54

    would be a better idea.  Tell me something.  If a fence will not reduce the
    risks, why will it not???????  And I don't wan't to hear something lame
    either.  You spout about there already are laws for such self-latching
    gates.  I would hazzard a say that only happens around PUBLIC pools, not
    private and that is where most children drown.
    And you are about as wrong about my post about the USA and communist
    countries as you can be.  We ARE free to do what we want, when we want and
    basically how we want in this country.  After all, we are all voicing our
    opionions here on this BBS.  Try that in a communist country.  And for that
    matter, try owning a PC in a communist country.  Only a few privilaged get
    to have such luxuries.

    Message: 74973
    Author: $ Wild Barbarian
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: You have no idea
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 20:19:36

    what I want in my life.  Nor are you good enough to be a mind reader.

    Message: 74974
    Author: $ Wild Barbarian
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: hmmmmmm.....
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 20:22:57

    A minor correction ann....Phoenix is the largest hottest city in the
    Country.  Lots of places are hotter than Phoenix.  And yes they should if
    the inncidence of child drowning is as high as it is here in Phoenix.
    Not as a government control, but as a way to protect our children.  Out of
    curiosity ann, do you have any children?  Or Grandchildren?

    Message: 74975
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael James
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 20:54:08

      Okay, if you insist. Consider your case jumped on.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 74976
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul next fix
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 21:49:07

    If a 'fix' for heroin sells for the same as a package of cigarettes then the
    addict can go on to better things than getting money any way he or she can.

    Of course children of heroin abusers are born with a desire for some of that
    same flower pod just as children of cigarette smokers, alcoholics and heavy
    caffeine drinkers are born with that need or needs, depending on how much
    the parents were addicted to.  Meat, fish, poultry, beans, milk, etc.

    Heroin, like cigarettes, like sugar, like caffein, and others are physically
    addicting.  We each have a need for certain building blocks to keep repaired
    our flesh.  You know, lose an atom, gain an atom.  But because our bodies
    have become what we put into them then our cravings are real.  In order to
    renew or replace an atom with another, fresher atom, our bodies ask for
    through its senses that which made them in the first place.  Slowly, ever so
    slowly we can replace our bodies with better, stronger and longer lasting
    material.  Diet.

    You can't blame the heroin addicts.  You need to see that person as a
    toddler running across the kitchen floor and hanging onto mother's leg.  You
    need to understand that circumstance created a rhealm of individuals.  The
    expression "walk a mile in the other person's shoes" really means something.

    continued next message.

    Message: 74977
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 05/07/91  Time: 22:00:48

    Just suppose that a small child is growning up in a deeply religious family.
     A family, if you will, that has the 'fear of the lord' deep within their
    heads.  They are taught and out of fear they practice.  They will tell that
    youngster that sex is a sin, that they must not play with themselves or
    fornicate with a person of the opposite sex.....under threat of burning in
    the fires of hell for all eternity because their particular god demands it.

    Okay, so the child is starting to enter puberty, around 11 to 13, and
    irrepresible mother nature starts pumping this kid full of new and powerful
    hormones, hormones that won't take not even a maybe.

    In one of these households I imagine, the beautiful, innocent, child was
    caught rubbing themselves.  The child was beaten, in the spirit of the lord,
    for repentence for being a normal human being.  Hey, that child will sure
    have a new program line implanted into their being: sex= pain.

    Melissa's writings are more interesting to read and more factual in today's
    world than any religious book that espouses punishment as its edict.

    Of all the religions in the world it would seem that we humans would be
    closer to world peace and prosperity than we are.  But then again, some
    believe in fortune tellers and are awaiting pain and turmoil as forcast by
    their teacher.  (later) Rod

    Time remaining: 00:54
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     1:I'm totally out of it.  I'll call later.
     2:end

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