### Apollo BBS Archive - July 23, 1987

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 1576
    Author: $ Mike Howerton
    Category: Entertainment
    Subject: King
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 02:41:56

    Supposedly, his next book is going to called 'The
    Tommyknockers'. After that he is supposed to be adding 400
    pages to 'The Stand'.
    I can't imagine adding more to that book, but you never know.
    I had heard that he would  be taking a break after releasing
    these books though.
    He is not going to write a sequel to 'Salems Lot' like people
    had said.
    I would be interested in seeing one of those papers.

    Message: 1577
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Entertainment
    Subject: Mike/King
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 11:00:12

    I only hope your right about S. K. taking a break from writting. I heard
    about Tommyknockers coming out - but he's already worte that sometimes back.
    How  can I get one of these papers to you? ___ ANN ___

    Message: 1578
    Author: $ Michelle Reynolds
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hello!
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 11:34:47

    First, let me explain my vacation from here, I had ALOT of things to do and
    they are all done, so I am back!

    Second, Cats! My boyfriends cat had 5 kittens (2 are gone.) If you are
    interested, there are 3 left...
    One white one and Two Calico's.

    Thank you and have a NICE day.
    Michelle

    Message: 1579
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: $ta sig. members
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 15:17:41

    What would all of you think about having an art board on Apollo? Thats
    where you create a picture on your word processer - and then copy it to
    the screen on Apollo. Each month the pictures could be judged by one and all
    and that person - the winners name would be posted all month as the winner.
    No prizes - just your name in lights. Ha. We could also have a poetry and
    story board too. These too chould be judged for the month. What do you think
    gang? Sound like fun? Just tell Cliff of you like the idea and maybe he will
    get those boards for us. Another BBS that I belong to does that and they are
    used very often and some good drawings are entered. Amazing what can be done
    on a word prosesser. You don't have to have alot of talent - just
    imagination!! Fun, fun fun. ---- ANN ----
    P.S. It doesn't take long at all to copy a picture - even a detailed one to
    the screen.

    Message: 1580
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 15:51:12

    I've seen those text art works, they are impressive.  It would be nice to
    have an "Art" board, for works of poetry, stories, text pictures, whatever.
    It's been a while since I've seen any of Daryl Westfall's poetry, for
    instance, since his board is down.
    Sounds like a pretty good idea.

    Message: 1581
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 19:06:42

              ___   ___
            --\ /--
              ===/ \===
                (. .)
            \           /
             \_________/
                  U

    Message: 1582
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 22:11:07

    Please note Cliff that two are willing - Zak and David!! (RE: other boards)
    Zak even started off with a cute drawing. Does that look like a monkey to
    you? --- Ann__
    P.S. How much of a majority do we need of the members? Of course your vote
    counts more than any!! (grovel, grovel, bow!!)

    Message: 1583
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Modern art
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 23:24:05

    fjdklbsraiq;fjkl;as,jfkl;,tiljq@yupbh53aoi0r3yhm78gix90ao-
    @ygheg/0@m7-hmg@yoyh7/g0m-ygh
    -ix9o@7@h7/
    @iy1@a7y19g@;hyxig8k9{3hyjpkgz9:sshiy0eo;hky5xo;g3{physix90oghipy90@oxghiy93
    g5erxybu8om{;yh99;k@{y9higo@;x{yhig9o;{y9hg;@o{hy@ox
    gyh8eogh5o;hy
    hkl;hkl;dgh@l
    ')(TR!%$"P+W'Y(T+GD$DHW'O<+#GYVFHU(EEFN01,;
    hyeu8@aiq0;sygedht5pl03aiqygh;
    vaqq;0aq4hv;kgyhweq}o0;gim3tyhew};ghtyaiwegygy8emr;aiygh@ci/yhr}/g@/;emayh/v
    vc@hl;hkvvcltztlv
    cmunmltmvheribou;hvfebo;hfvui;ebhvui;oehrbuioefrb;huio;ehrfiov;hervn,mvlt-cx
    v@bdkhjxl
    jklf;:cns.aiq9bjr:flscjfkl;jk:l,frdbnvaijfdsajkrbiqf;lkafbirl;:asf
    fjdk:lbcaisjkrfl;,j:vxckzld;,vjxckbldzvjxc;zhvlkx;z,cdvj
    vjxbkh@zdl|;,hvk{l;:cjxkhbzl|v;:jxkhlz;vjxklchz{;vj{:lxjiurwoqebjg092w3
    vxcmtluz,/wvxcmektzww,oiumq4rj,.mgldfeo-oiugaemqrjb4
    jksbr.gowaildbnrai;jklgrdo:gjklgrwbeaiqgrebiaqbvoivxcoivxcnmk,4w389lkjvds:p2
    vcxbhcicviwr4jlgm,d/vdpoi4wjklvcxzm,t.vkldcsiojgrimbxcmz,.vxczkjrgiuo4meqlkj

    Message: 1584
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: More modern art
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 23:24:38

       *

    Message: 1585
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last two
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 23:50:01

    Bravo, James.  A study in contrasts.
    I didn't know you had such artistic expression in you.

    Message: 1586
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 03:29:41

    Now all we need is someone to write a lengthy article entitled "Narrow-field
    Jumping Cursors: Artistic Gateway to the Subconscious?" We'll all be rich...

    Message: 1587
    Author: $ Mike Howerton
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: advice for the day
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 04:20:53

    I came to a wonderful conclusion today...
    When someone who is larger than you threatens to kick your @$$,
    it is not a real good idea to taunt him.
    I will try to remember that little tidbit while
    continuing down lifes merry pathway.

    Message: 1588
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: JT's Art
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 08:03:08

      A stunning example of post-modern work.  The first's seeming chaos brings
    us to a feeling of man's uncertainty in a world with telephone line noise,
    while the second's single lone asterisk shows the lonely solitude of an
    erased text buffer.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 1589
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Entertainment
    Subject: The Belgariad
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 08:04:43

      The recent posts have inspired me to reread my set.  I think my favorite
    has to be poor Lleldoran.  "So I ran him through -- just a little."  Heh
    heh.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 1590
    Author: $ Robert Simpson
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Lleldorin
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 09:28:44

    "I hit him on the head because I didn't want to hurt him."

    ahhhh...there's a myriad of quotes that were great from that series...

    I like Silk the best...I'm just waiting toward the day when he gets married!
    (To Porenn, no less....that'd be a riot!)

    "One does one's best"

    Message: 1591
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 10:03:39

    Ah - did you notice James's wonderful drawings? HE didn't vote on an art
    board - but if he's that talented, he MUST want one. Does this count?
    --- ANN ---

    Message: 1592
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: *
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 10:26:13

    Art board sounds nice.

    Anyone read works by Philip K. Dick?  Everywhere I read how wonderful he is,
    yet I've never seen his work.

    Message: 1593
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dick
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 13:15:50

    I've read a few of his books: Ubik was really good, the Transmigration of
    Timothy Archer was not so good, Deus Irae (co-written by Roger Zelazny) was
    OK.  None of these are generally cited as being his best.

    Message: 1594
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 15:17:36

    Another vote --- Peter Petrisko!!! Laura said she was going to vote for it
    too. ---- ANN ---

    Message: 1595
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: art sig
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 16:59:03

    Cliff is vigorously pondering whether or not to start a new special interest
    group.

                  ___
                 /. .\
                ( /   )
    whine not? - \--//
                  !!
                 /  \
                /ZAP!\
               ! your !
               !you're!
               ! DEAD !
               \  _  /
                !! !!
                !! !!
                !! !!
             ___!! !!____
            /===>> <<===\
            ------ ------

    (picture o' Cliff)

    Message: 1596
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 19:46:39

    Darling little picture - but will Cliff (the one that will make the final
    decision) appriciate it? ha ha. --- ANN ---
    P.S. You have a great sense of humor don't you Cliff?

    Message: 1597
    Author: $ Traci Sibel
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: art board
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 19:59:54

       'nother vote

    Message: 1598
    Author: $ Jack Flash
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Philip K. Dick
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 21:56:36

    I've managed to track down about 30 or so of his books (this represents a
    LOT of time mucking about in used book stores).  Most of his stuff is out
    of print now -- which is unfortunate because he's actually quite good.
    He enjoyed kind of a cult popularity as a result of an interview in
    Rolling Stone about ten years ago or so, but that seems to have faded.
    You can find him in the Science Fiction section of B. Dalton or Waldenbooks,
    but it's usually only his "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep" (from which
    the movie Bladerunner was made).  Not one of his best efforts.  The best
    place to start is "The Man In The High Castle" -- if nothing else you'll
    learn a little bit about the I Ching.

    Incidentally:  his recently published `lost' novel, "Radio Free Albemuth",
    is a disappointment.  If you're going to read something by him, don't
    start there.

    *=* Journey to a SIG *=*

    *=* Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 45267
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 01:14:43

    I think all liberals are severely mistaken, and often behave like fools.
    Am I violating Rule #4?
    I also agree with Michelle that all BBSers are geeks...

    Message: 45268
    Author: $ Mike Howerton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/Chess
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 02:50:16

    Queen to Queen's level 3.

    Message: 45269
    Author: Billi Idyll
    Category: My Dinner with...
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 06:35:08

            I quickly settled the table after Rod smashed into it.  "Really,
    Rod, I think you would work better if you'd take those blinders off."
            Rod growled at me.  "What are you?  Are you a running dog lackey of
    that universal faggot, God?"
            I smiled.  "No more so than you're a close-minded, unimaginative,
    bigoted Atheist who has a very un-American idea concerning justice and proof
    in cases of law.  Your assumption that you'd win a case against God because
    he'd not show up is fallacious -- in the US you'd have to prove your case
    before he'd be found guilty."
            Rod, peeking out from beneath his blindfold, watched me carefully.
    Do you mean to say I'm not right?"
            I swallowed hard, recalling my recent lunches with God.  "Well, I
    don't believe that just because Christianity, in its various forms, is the
    most popular religion that it means their right.  Christianity has a very
    strong undercurrent of white supremacy and general chauvinism that I don't
    like.  I mean, it's only rivaled by Marxism-Leninism in numbers of
    worshipers.  Still, your attacks are a bit unjustified."
            Rod frowned, the blindfold shoved up around his forehead.  "How so?"
            I shrugged.  "You're using a bazooka to kill a cockroach.  Guys like
    Jim White are more fun to bait in little bits.  Work on them and get them to
    over-extend their beliefs, then chop them off at the knees.  You can no more
    prove God doesn't exist than they can he will, but you can point out the
    flaws in their philosophy."  I smiled and toyed with the Am Express card.
    "Now, eat up.  God's buying."

    Message: 45270
    Author: $ Robert Simpson
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 14:04:22

    Write him a letter...Make it postage due...

    Better yet, stand on a hill, look up, and scream obscenities at him.

    Oh...even better...go kick a mountain...Mt. Everest.  Afterall, it won't say
    "ouch" and it won't make the mountain tumble over.  Oooooh....gather all
    your athiest friends for a big "kick the mountain GT"....Whoever knocks it
    down first gets to dig everyone else out from under the rubble.

    I figured that since you were yelling at God, you might as well do something
    equally as futile.

    Message: 45271
    Author: $ Carol Graham
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James White
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 16:35:41

    I, for one, enjoy your posts.

    Also, I heard you and Jim Lippard and I thought
    both of you were great.

    And, having heard you, and having talked with you
    several times on the phone, don't worry about the
    charges of your being hateful!  They just Ain't True!

    Carol=.>

    Message: 45272
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 16:54:14

      It may be, though, that the pushing was tried in the wrong
    direction.  Colonies of ants or termites, or bees and social
    wasps, may in fact be Superorganisms By Wheeler's criteria,
    but perhaps that is the end of that line of information as
    far as insects are concerned, for the time being.  Maybe it
    would work better if you tried it out on another social
    species, easier to handle.  Us, for one.
      It has long troubled the entomologists that the rest of us
    are always interfering in their affairs be offering
    explanations of insect behavior in human terms.  They take
    pains to explain that ants are not, emphatically not, tiny
    mechanical models of human beings.  I agree with this.
    Nothing that we know for sure about human behavior is likely
    to account for what ants do, and we ought to stay clear of
    it; this is the business of entomologists.  As for the ants
    themselves, they are plainly not in need of lessons from us.
      However, this does not mean that we cannot take it the
    other way, on the off chance that some of the collective
    actions of ants may cast light on human problems.
      There are lots of possibilities here, but if you think
    about the construction of the Hill by a colony of a million
    ants, each one working ceaselessly and compulsively to add
    perfection to his region of the structure without having the
    faintest notion of what is being constructed elsewhere,

    Message: 45273
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 17:05:32

    living out his brief life in a social enterprise that
    extends back into what is for him the deepest antiquity
    (ants die at the rate of 3-4 percent per day; in a month or
    so an entire generation vanishes, while the Hill can go on
    for sixty years or, given good years, forever), performing
    his work with infallible, undistracted skill in the midst of
    confusion of others, all tumbling over each other to get the
    twigs and bits of earth aligned in precisely the right
    configurations for the warmth and ventilation of the eggs
    and larvae, but totally incapacitated by isolation, there is
    only one human activity that is like this, and it is
    language.
      We have been working at it for what seems eternity,
    generation after articulate generation, and still we have no
    notion how it is done, nor what it will be like when
    finished, if it is ever to be finished.  It is the most
    compulsively collective, genetically programmed,
    species-specific, and autonomic of all the things we do, and
    we are infallible at it.  It comes naturally.  We have DNA
    for grammar, neurons for syntax.  We can never let up; we
    scramble our way through one civilization after another,
    metamorphosing, sprouting tools and cities everywhere, and
    all the time new words keep tumbling out.

    Message: 45274
    Author: $ James White
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Billi Idyll
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 21:20:52

    Bait me, huh?  Flys or worms?  I'm waiting.
    James>>>

    Message: 45275
    Author: $ James White
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Robert Morey
    Date: 07/22/87  Time: 21:24:07

    Dr. Robert Morey, author of "The New Atheism and the Erosion of Freedom"
    will be our guest this Saturday on the Dividing Line on KHEP 1280 AM at 3
    PM.  The program is live and call-in at 278-5555 (Rod's phone is locked out
    of that number per God's instructions) and you are welcome to participate.
    Thanks!
    James>>>

    Message: 45276
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Howerton
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 03:17:51

    Bishop to king's level 4.

    Message: 45277
    Author: Billi Idyll
    Category: My Dinner with...
    Subject: Jim White
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 07:39:14

            Worry creased my brow as Jim sat down and paled.  "What's the
    matter, Jim?  Does spagetti and ground beef look too much like worms and
    flies for you?"
            Jim snarled.  "Alright, you buffoon, bait me."
            I smiled.  "You mean beyond the baiting that got you to reply to my
    last post?"
            "Um, yes..." Jim said, a tad uneasy.
            I smiled.  "OK, here goes.  Some historians hold that the two most
    important men in history were St. Paul and Lenin.  Both men took obscure
    philosophers and preached their teachings in a way that they became
    universal saviours.  Oddly enough, there's more proof that Marx existed
    than Jesus did.  How can you justify Christianity, and all of the evils
    (from Catholic excesses to current attempts at censoring rock music and the
    like) it pushes as being better than the repressive autocratic Communist
    regimes?"
            Jim scoffed.  "Is that it?"
            I shrugged.  "Opening salvo.  Remember, it's early and I only just
    got your challenge.  It'll get better."

    Message: 45278
    Author: $ James White
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Lippard8 (I think)
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 09:15:25

    On page 8 of Fundamentalism is Nonsense, under the sub-title,
    "Seeing God" Jim lists various verses that say that men have seen
    God (Isaiah 6:1 is my favorite of those).  Then John 1:18 and
    1 John 4:12 are cited which say that no man has seen God.  There
    seems to be an obvious contradiction.
        There is a contradiction if one does not realize that in
    the Bible three persons are described as God - Father, Son and
    Holy Spirit.  Jim must be given credit for not attacking the
    Trinity in his book - he does question the divinity of Jesus,
    but not really on Biblical grounds but rather moral grounds or
    with charges of error.  Anyway, John 1:18 makes it very clear
    that John is referring to the Father only when he says that
    no man has seen God at any time, for he then goes on to say
    that the "unique God" (i.e., Jesus) has made Him (God the
    Father) known.  Literally the term is "exegesato" from which
    we get the word "exegete."  The Person who was seen of men in
    the Old Testament was the Son, Jesus Christ (see, for
    example, John 12:39-41/Isaiah 6:1-10 where John clearly says
    this).  Hence, again when the entire witness of Scripture is
    allowed into the discussion, no contradiction can be found.

    Message: 45279
    Author: $ James White
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Lippard9
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 09:16:12

         On pages 9 through 11 you basically have a list of supposed
    numerical differences.  A number of these were addressed by
    Gleason Archer in his volume "Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties"
    so I will not take much time with all of them.  Given the Hebrew
    numbering system (the use of letters for numbers gave rise to
    lots of textual variants) it is not surprising that more than
    once we have a difference between say "4,000" and "40,000."
    Indeed, Hebrew can have numerical values or it can use words
    to represent round figures (and if one writer uses the exact
    numerical value while another uses a round term...).  For
    example, the difference between 101 and 111 is a little letter
    (yod) stuck between two larger letters - the yod looks like
    this:  '  .  Maybe one can understand how that could get lost
    in copying?  Ya, me too.
         Just one example of how some of the other problems listed
    here can be explained - under "Children of Zerubbabel" Jim has
    the following: "1 Chronicles 3:19-20: "And the sons of Zerubbabel
    were Meshullan and Hananiah, and Shelomith was their sister; and
    Hashubah, Ohel, Berechiah, Hasadiah, and Jushabhesed, five."  There
    are seven males and one female listed, not five of anything."  Ah,
    but dear Jim, the list of males that immediately precedes the
    numeral "five" consists of five people.  Indeed, the term "five"
    sums up the total of verse 20 - all those who appear after the
    end of the sentence.  Hence, no problem there at all.

    Message: 45280
    Author: $ James White
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Lippard10
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 09:16:59

         Finally (for today) Jim's unrealistic standards and mis-
    understanding of context and the importance of Biblical usage of
    words can be seen quite clearly on page 11 where Jim states under
    the sub-title "The World's Existence":  "1 Chronicles 16:30 says
    the world is firmly established, Ecclesiastes 1:4 says "the earth
    remains forever."  But 1 John 2:17 says "the world is passing
    away."
         No serious Biblical scholar would give such a charge a second
    thought, since the person making the statement obviously has not
    spent much time with the text.  The term "world" as used in 1 John
    (indeed, in all the Johannine material) does not refer to the
    physical earth but rather to the present system of things.  Just
    reading the passage in total makes that very clear:  "Do not love
    the world, nor the things in the world.  If anyone loves the
    world, the love of the Father is not in him.  For all that is in
    the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the
    boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the
    world.  And the world is passing away, and also its lusts; but
    the one who does the will of God abides forever." (2:15-17).
    Clearly John was not referring to the "earth" as a planet when
    he said these things.  Not only that, but in the OT the earth is
    used as a standard against which man's brief lifespan is measured.
    "Forever" in that sense cannot be pressed to mean eternally.

    Message: 45281
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: INANE
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 09:56:25

            -----_ MOST INANE STATEMENT OF THE WEEK -- JULY 23, 1987 ---

    By Fred Walker, naval arthitect at the National Maritime Museum in England!

    "It is my belief that no good and important museum would want material that
    had been plundered from a grave."!!!

    (Talking about the salvaging of the Titanic!)

    Message: 45282
    Author: $ James White
    Category: My Dinner with...
    Subject: Billy Idyll
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 10:08:27

         I twirled some spaghetti onto my spoon and grabbed for a slice
    of garlic bread.  "No, Billy, I love spaghetti.  I loved my flies too,
    so don't worry about it."
         "Well, how about it?"  Billy smiled an all-knowing smile.
         "Billy, how do you know that I can't engage in a little baiting
    of my own?"
         "Christians like you aren't that intelligent."
         "Oh, I see.  Well, I don't know what historians you were talking
    about, but I don't see as that matters.  Neither would I exactly say
    that Jesus was an "obscure philospher" as you put it.  You seem to wish
    to put this on a very naturalistic ground, ignoring what Paul himself
    said about his "system" of teaching."
         "What about my saying that there is more evidence that Marx existed?"
         "That assumes, of course, that one can throw the New Testament
    out as an historical document, an idea that I certainly would not accept."
         Billy was getting uneasy.  "I expected more of a fundamentalist
    attitude from you, Jim.  How about the fact that Christianity promotes
    evil?"
         I dabbed some spaghetti sauce from my beard, took a slow sip of 7UP
    and replied, "Well, I suppose I would say that it would be best to
    define just what you mean by Christianity."
         Billy was surprised.  "Darn it, why do you insist on putting this
    whole conversation on a rational level??"
         "Just the way I am I guess."

    Message: 45283
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: RELIGION AS BANALITY
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 10:48:58

         RELIGION IS DECEITFUL, DEPRAVED AND ABSURD - but don't underestimate
    it.  There's a reason this decrepit relic of humanity's infancy still adorns
    class society.  "The powers that be are ordained of God," says St. Paul.
    Not quite.  God is ordained by the powers that be.  His omnipotence
    expresses our impotence.
         BABBLE ABOUT "THE WAGES OF SIN" serves to cover up the sin of wages.
    We want rights, not rites - sex, not sects.  Only Eros and Eris belong in
    our pantheon.  Surely the Nazarene necrophile has had his revenge by now.
    Remember, pain is just God's way of hurting you.
         THE CHURCH (ANY CHURCH) IS CAPITAL'S CONSECRATED COP - Examples:
    Christianity (which is neither catholic nor protestant); Judaism (reading
    the Prophets and raking in the profits); Islam (which means "submission") -
    plus all farcically fashionable Oriental mysticisms pushed by greedy gurus
    with lice in their beards.
         FROM IRAN TO IRELAND, from Madrid to Miami, from the West Bank to West
    Virginia the faithful fulfill their function, suppressing subjectivity and
    sexuality in connivance with their eternal ally, the State.  "Prisons are
    built with stones of Law, brothels with bricks of Religion" (Blake)
         AS FOR "GOD", suffice to say that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
    "God has sufficiently revealed His true character by combining the genital
    organ with the urinary tract" (Brecht).  A person without God is like a fish
    without a bicycle.  Be (diabo)logical... curb your dogma.  Revolution, not
    revelation!  Belief in God is self-managed mutilation.  Why not deny God and
    affirm yourself?  GET THEE BEHIND ME, GOD!   (preceding essay by Bob Black)

    Message: 45284
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 11:32:34

    Huh?

    Message: 45285
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Titanic
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 11:35:58

    I read that article today as well.
    You know what this means ..... don't you?

    Gotta return all those Egyptian artifacts .....

    After 2 million or so dead babies later, we finally decide to use some
    Morals.               Typical, typical.

    Message: 45286
    Author: $ Chris Zagar
    Category: For sale
    Subject: C-64 MIDI Interface
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 12:40:42

    I have a Passport MIDI interface for the C-64 for sale.  It features MIDI
    in, out, and Roland-compatible drum sync connections.  With it I am selling
    "The Music Shop for MIDI," a scoring program from Passport and two
    MIDI-based educational programs for learning jazz and blues harmonies.

    I am selling these together for $100.  If interested, leave me mail.

    SYSOP Chris

    Message: 45287
    Author: $ Chris Zagar
    Category: For sale
    Subject: MIDI keyboard
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 12:44:09

    I am selling a Yamaha PSR-60 synthesizer.  This synth features a four-octave
    full-sized keyboard, 16 stereo and 16 monophonic voices (one of each may be
    selected at a time) and 16 rhythms with 3 fill-ins per rhythm.  It also
    features MIDI in and out jacks for connection to other synths or computers.
    It has a memory for recording music, and can save/load compositions to/from
    a tape recorder through provided jacks. It can operate off of either 110 AC
    or batteries and has built-in speakers and jacks for external speakers or
    headphones. All sounds are digital PCM produced for accurate reproduction.

    I am asking $500.  If interested, please leave me mail.

    SYSOP Chris

    Message: 45288
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sandy/Titanic
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 15:14:54

    That guy that runs the Musem over in England probablly doesn't have the room
    to put Titanic relics because he has too many Egyptian Mummies taking up
    space!!  I don't know about anyone else - but I'd pay a fortune to see
    anything brought up from the Titanic. Major Musems are going to fight to
    get that stuff. I think the one in England just wasn't offered. Was just
    "Sour grapes" is all. --- ANN ---

    Message: 45289
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 16:31:54

    Sour graves.

    Message: 45290
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 17:32:05

      The words themselves are marvels, each one perfectly
    designed for its use.  The older, more powerful ones are
    membranous, packed with layers of different meaning, like
    one-word poems.  "Articulated," for instance, first
    indicated a division into small joints, then, effortlessly,
    signified the speaking of sentences.  Some words are
    gradually altered while we have them in everyday use,
    without our being aware until the change has been completed:
    the *ly* in today's adverbs, such as ably and benignly,
    began to appear in place of "like" just a few centuries ago,
    and "like" has since worn away to a mere suffix.  By a
    similar process, "love-did" changed itself into "loved."
      None of the words are ever made up by anyone we know; they
    simply turn up in the language when they are needed.
    Sometimes a familiar word will suddenly be grabbed up and
    transformed to mean something quite strange: "strange"
    is itself such a word today, needed by nuclear physicists to
    symbolize the behavior of particles which decay with
    peculiar slowness; the technical term for such particles now
    is "strange particles," and they possess a "strangeness
    number(S)."  The shock of sudden unfamiliarity with an old,
    familiar word is something we take in stride; it has been
    going on for thousands of years.
      A few words are made up by solitary men in front of our

    Message: 45291
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 17:41:37

    eyes, like Holism out of Smuts, or Quark out of Joyce, but
    most of these are exotic and transient; it takes a great
    deal of use before a word can become a word.
      Most new words are made up from other, earlier words;
    language-making is a conservative process, wasting little.
    When new words unfold out of old ones, the original meaning
    usually hangs around like an unrecognizable scent, a sort of
    secret.
      "Holism" suggests something biologically transcendental
    because of "holy," although it was intended more simply to
    mean a complete assemblage of living units.  Originally, it
    came from the Indo-European root word *kailo*, which meant
    whole, also intact and uninjured.  During passage through
    several thousand years it transformed into hail, hale,
    health, hallow, holy, whole, and heal, and all of these
    still move together through our minds.
      "Heuristic" is a more specialized, single-purpose word,
    derived from Indo-European *wer*, meaning to find, then
    taken up in Greek as *heuriskein*, from which Archimedes was
    provided with Heureka!

    Message: 45292
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak/graves
    Date: 07/23/87  Time: 19:40:34

    Yeah Zak -- "sour graves"!!! hahahahahahahahaha

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