### Apollo BBS Archive - September 30, 1989

    Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 61302
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Phoenix Special Elec
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 00:45:08

    My suggestion:  Vote a resounding *NO* on all the propositions, save perhaps
    prop 200 (if you think it is worth it, although it allows the mayor and
    council to slime out of more accountability.

    As for the council members and mayor, here my suggestion:  Throw da bums
    out!  If you have no overwhelming reason to vote for the incumbent, DON'T!!
    They probably did a lousy job, and should be dumped!  Just my opinion.

    Oh, by the way, I'm back.

    I hope to see many of you at the Rally, Saturday morning at Phoenix
    Patriot's Square/Park.  Remember, the Civil Rights/Second Amendment Rights
    Rally?

    Michael  "No, *I*'m the NRA!!!"

    Message: 61303
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: something from not
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 01:41:18

    One doesn't destroy matter/energy.
    By the way, your message on nothing from something makes it quite clear
    that you have not the slightest understanding of physics.
    (e.g 'So how does one destroy matter/energy')
    As far as evolution is concerned, the mere existance of monkeys
    supports the conclusion they didn't evolve. For a species to evolve,
    it remains true to Darwins theory that stimuli caused mutations ..the
    stimuli as a response to external changes in nature or whatever their
    environment dictates. Witho\ut stimuli, Darwins theory hold no water.
    Without change it doesn't either.
    Without "Natural Selection", the mutations wouldnt occur.
    So, therefore, it must be inclusive to say that in order for the
    monkeys to survive, they somehow "evolved" into man.
    This I simply don't buy anyway, but its logical succesive reasoning
    from Darwins opwn theory.
    Theory it is, fact it isnt.
    You obviously bought this mans charade hook line and sinker.

            -Mike

    Message: 61304
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: B.Dog
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 01:43:10

    Read the bible, B.Dog, instead of spreading obnoxious bull$#!+ about
    something you obviously know so little of.
    You'll find the answers to all of your questions in the BIBLE.
    Read it.

    Message: 61305
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Mike/answer
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 07:26:00

    Years ago I went to a Penticostal church - I called it Holy Roller - they
    told me an un-baptized child or any one would go to hell. Also a priest told
    me that - but on the other hand, another one said there was a type of limbo
    that an un-baptized child went to, not a hell, but without Christ. A
    Lutheran minister 'hinted' one time that he thought they must go to hell
    because Jesus says in the Bible that one MUST be baptized to go to Heaven!
    At the time I said "then the old Testiment Jews went to hell then?" - and he
    said "no, because their belief in the coming Massiah was enough"! Anyway,
    there has been many more instances that I've heard a child goes to hell if
    not baptized, but I cannot recall them off hand.
    I agree with Beau that anything can be found in the Bible - it's a matter of
    who is interpriting(sp?) it. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61306
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike/evolution
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 07:31:51

    Uhhhhh -I don't think Darwin meant that we evolved from the monkeys of today
    - you know, the cute little critters in the zoos. But even if this were
    true, you certainly couldn't see them evolving,nor could you in thousands of
    years. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 61307
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Lippard
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 08:42:13

    Thanks for the clip.

    Message: 61308
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dog
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 09:34:29

    I think you're just mad because I keep calling you by your last name.

    Message: 61309
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: J.L.
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 09:39:06

    Re:  "I also don't think that any workable definition of free will is
    incompatible with determinism or with God creating only morally perfect
    people."

    Huh?

    If you're saying that it is difficult (or impossible) to reconcile the free
    will of man with the sovereignty of God, I can agree.  But what is
    impossible with man is possible with God.  Matching wits with God is an
    exercise in futility.

    Message: 61310
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 09:43:16

    Hey Rod!  It's good to see you in print again.  Where you been?

    Re:  "Some wear crosses around their neck or keep statues on their dashboard
    or at their home."

    It is incredible how superstitious people are today.  Like the guy said on
    tv, "With all the knowledge available in the world today, it's a shame that
    people go to bed stupid everynight."

    Message: 61311
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 09:56:24

    I don't want to comment on all that's being said about religion here on
    Apollo, because it's like being on a merry-go-round, and around, and around,
    and around.  But here's a few thoughts:

    Re:  "anything can be found in the Bible"  and  "Jesus says in the Bible
    that one MUST be baptized to go to Heaven!"

    That's just not true Ann!  Jesus NEVER said that!  It's NOT in the Bible!

    As I said before, there are a lot (thousands) of people who go around
    saying, the Bible says this, and the Bible says that, when the Bible doesn't
    say it at all.

    This post will probably fall on deaf ears, but I welcome anyone to prove me
    wrong by simply showing me where the Bible does say these things.

    I am willing to show people what the Bible says if they want to learn, but
    most do not want to learn.  Most like dog are just out to grind their own
    little axe for reasons I don't understand.

    Message: 61312
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 10:55:26

    You're the one who said that nothing can come from something, not me.
       You say that "Without 'Natural Selection', the mutations wouldnt occur."
    Wrong.  Natural selection has nothing to do with the introduction of
    variation through mutation--natural selection merely selects from
    randomly-occurring mutations.  Your comments about monkeys make no sense.

    Message: 61314
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob/free will
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 10:58:47

    "I also don't think that any workable definition of free will is
    incompatible with determinism or with God creating only morally perfect
    people." -- I am saying that there is no inconsistency between God creating
    people who have free wills and God only creating people who are morally
    perfect (i.e., never choose to do evil acts).  Thus the claim that it is
    because of our free will that moral evils exist doesn't let God off the
    hook.

    Message: 61315
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 11:03:09

    You'd probably be interested to know that a new UA student came by my office
    last week after reading my pamphlet and asked if you were the Mike Carter
    quoted in the back.  He had been a BBS user in Phoenix and was quite
    surprised to find that you claim to be a Christian.  He found it hard to
    believe that someone so obnoxious could be a Christian.  Of course, I have
    no problem at all believing it.

    Message: 61316
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: clip
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 11:07:48

    Had you already obtained a copy of that article, or was my sending it of
    genuine value?

    Message: 61317
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Question?
    Subject: B-Dog on baptized?
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 11:25:19

            Re:  "according to many of YOU,......"

            many of us?   Name them....????   Sputter sputter... Okay, name one!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61318
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Michael K
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 11:52:02

            I saw you at the rally on the march to Patriot's Square Park...
    I said Hi, but you just scowled back with your little yellow arm band on.
    Tell me, do Germans ever smile?

            Interesting speeches by the way...  I did like the quote that SOME
    people think we "Have the RIGHT to keep and bear sporting goods".

            Here we have Phoenix, a hub of drug activty from Mexico, and not ONE
    death this year from a so called 'assault' rifle!  The PREFERRED weapon of
    the drug dealer is the knife!

            THREE weapons listed on DeConcini's bill to ban 'assault weapons',
    have not even had a criminal trace preformed on them yet.

            District 2, Thelda Williams gave a great speech...and she has got my
    Vote in next weeks election!

            Where were you other Apollo people?  shame shame.....
                    Rights are okay, as long as you don't have to work for them?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*  I'm the PEOPLE!

    Message: 61319
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: District Vote on 3rd
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 12:14:56

            Here is a list of whom you might Vote for City Council if you
    believe in your 2nd amenment rights as strongly as I do.

    Dist 1 Skip Rimsza (Active Sportsman) & Peter Barnett

    Dist 2 Thelda Williams

    Dist 3 Paul Johnson

    Dist 4 John Nelson  (very good)

    Dist 5 Howard Adams ?

    Dist 6 Harry Sparrow

    Dist 7 Do *NOT* vote for Mary Rose Wilcox... she wants to ban everything!

    Dist 8 R.L. Day

    MAYOR...  Do not VOTE for Terry Goddard...  Sadly the other two are better
    but only rated a "B" on this subject...No clear cut choice, so pick the best
    one as long as it is not a vote for Terry!
    Vote *NO* on proposition 1 & 106 and *YES* on 200...PLEASE!
                                    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 61321
    Author: $ Dean McCarron
    Category: For sale
    Subject: Prometheus 2400
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 15:22:32

    I have a Prometheus 2400G modem for sale. This is an external (DB-25 socket
    on the back) 2400 baud modem that's Hayes compatible. I've owned it for
    about 9 months, but only used it for 5; I switch to an internal modem that's
    able to help my ham radio activities. Looks brand new, original box and
    manual. $110.

    Leave me mail if interested. . .
    Dean

    Message: 61322
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Lippard
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 15:26:18

    I had a copy of the original Bruin piece, but was not aware U had picked it
    up.  So it as of genuine value.  If there is anything I can do to return the
    favor, please let me know.

    Message: 61323
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Nostalgia Awards
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 16:28:57

    From Bob Thornburg's very first log-in:

    Message: 21771
    Author: BOB THORNBURG
    Category: Religion
    Subject: HOLY COW!!
    Date: 10/19/84  Time: 09:26:33

    I just logged onto this BBS because I heard there was
    religious debates going on here.  And - -
    HOLY COW!!
    It's a bit more than I expected!  As soon as I can decipher
    some of the comments I'll toss in my 2 cents worth.  At
    quick glance, Paul Savage seems to know what he's talking
    about.  He seems to know what the Bible says.

    .....to his most recent, I'd say that his demeanor has been great.  I'd
    like to nominate him to the Christians of Apollo, Hall of Fame.  It seems
    that other so-called Christians are but wolves in sheeps clothing.  Myself,
    I admittedly am but a wolf in wolf's clothing, but what the hell, at least
    I am honest.

    You deserve some type of award, Bob.  You are the only one that hasn't
    'cracked'.  Keep up the good work.  -Rod

    Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 598
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last/hell's company
    Date: 09/29/89  Time: 23:50:54

    Are you *sure* we won't be with those people?  Perhaps they'll be around,
    but not having as much fun?

    Message: 599
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hell
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 03:29:09

    I'm trying to find a way to have access to both heaven and hell.

    Message: 600
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 07:40:13

    Jim Bakker???? He's probably going to go to the same place Hitler went!
                            -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 601
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Nick/last
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 07:40:49

    I have other plans. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 602
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Hell
    Date: 09/30/89  Time: 16:30:33

    If I were confined in a room for eternity with Jim and Tammy Faye,....well
    that would be hell.

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