### Apollo BBS Archive - July 4-5, 1987

    *=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 1474
    Author: $ Michelle Reynolds
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 14:20:26

    No Rod, my turtles are GIRLS.
    Does this make me kinda bi-sexual?
    I mean I also love to kiss my
    boyfriend. Totally Weird. Well,
    we will start wearing condoms on
    our tongues! Right Cliff?

    Message: 1475
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: JT
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:25:36

    I would think that would be a real incentive for you.
    I know how you enjoy ripping apart people less intelligent than yourself.

    *=* $tatus Club Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 44875
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 14:57:23

      We are born knowing how to use language.  The capacity to
    recognize syntax, to organize and deploy words into
    intelligible sentences, is innate in the human mind.  We are
    programmed to identify patterns and generate grammer.  There
    are invariant and variable structures in speech that are
    common to all of us.  As chicks are endowed with an innate
    capacity to read information in the shapes of overhanging
    shadows, telling hawk from other birds, we can identify the
    meaning of grammer in a string of words, and we are born
    this way.  According to Chomsky, who has examined it as a
    biologist looks at live tissue, language "must simply be a
    biological property of the human mind."  The universal
    attributes of language are genetically set; we do not learn
    them, or make them up as we go along.
      We work at this all our lives, and collectively we give it
    life, but we do not exert the least control over language,
    not as individuals or committees or academies or
    governments.  Language, once it comes alive, behaves like an
    active, motile organism.  Parts of it are always being
    changed, by a ceasless activity to which all of us are
    committed; new words are invented and inserted, old ones
    have their meaning altered and abandoned.  New ways of
    stringing words and sentences together come into fashion and
    vanish again, but the underlying structure simply grows,

    Message: 44876
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 15:03:44

    enriches itself, expands.  Individual languages age away and
    seem to die, but they leave progeny all over the place.
    Separate languages can exist side by side for centuries
    without touching each other, maintaining their integrity
    with the vigor of incompatible tissues.  At other times, two
    languges may come together, fuse, replicate, and give rise
    to nests of new tongues.
      If language is at the core of our social existence,
    holding us together, housing us in meaning, it may also be
    safe to say that art and music are functions of the same
    universal, genetically determined mechanism.  These are not
    bad things to do together.  If we are social creatures
    because of this, and therefore like ants, I for one (or
    should I say we for one?) do not mind.

    Message: 44877
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James/final
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:51:27

    Our conversation about men/women is done with James. No use going on/ We'll
    never agree and both of us know that. Like I said perhaps your right or I'm
    right or both. No doubt, in the furture we'll find another subject to banter
    about. Anyway - I hope you are having a fun 4th of july --- ANN

    Message: 44878
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Alan/farmers
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:55:29

    You know - I have to agree with everything you said. I don't like it, but
    can't do too much without giving up a real big part of my life . All causes
    take a lot of time and effort and I guess in all honesty, that is one of the
    lesser of my "dislikes" in society. But there has to be an end to madness
    sometimes!! --- ANN

    Message: 44879
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: To All
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 19:56:25

    Well, I'm off to see the fireworks. Have a happy 4th and a safe one. -- ANN

    Message: 1477
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Ripping people apart
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 23:04:01

    What are you talking about, Burkhart?  I do not enjoy "ripping apart people
    less intelligent" than myself.  I simply assume that people are capable of
    bettering themselves, and that their stupid ideas are manifestations of
    ignorance or prejudice, not of congenital stupidity.  And I hold people
    responsible for their stupid ideas, and I do not shrink from calling them
    what they are.  Sometimes it is irritating or even painful to have a
    prejudice exposed or shattered, but that's what you get for being prejudiced
    around me.

    Message: 1478
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 00:01:48

    But you enjoy it.

    Message: 1479
    Author: $ Mark Adkins
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Black Castle
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:39:13

    I tried to call it (you said you needed support in a discussion on the music
    board), but got garbage characters after the carrier.

    Message: 1480
    Author: $ Mark Adkins
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: DavidDavid
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:43:12

    I once knew a girl who liked chewing bones, but only using rawhide condoms.
    (tonight is my night for questionable jokes.)

    Message: 1481
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: JT/prejudice
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 03:57:00

    That certainly sounded impressive, but you described yourself the way you
    want to see yourself, not the way you really are.

    Message: 1482
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: David/ripping
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:33:33

    See what I mean about James? HE only rips people apart LESS intelligent than
    himself! HA!

    Message: 1483
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: James
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:35:35

    You honestly do not think your prejudiced?

    Message: 1484
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Black Castle
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 15:19:21

    Did you log on at 300 baud?  No parity, 8 bits, one stop bit?

    Message: 1486
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 17:20:42

    300 baud reminds me of those old Heinz ketchup commercials.

    *=* Bulletin Board entered *=*

    Message: 44881
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod's Question
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 22:18:09

      I don't know, maybe something patriotic.
    See you later,
       Dean

    Message: 44882
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Farmers
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 22:32:41

       I think its a bit like getting someone off an addictive drug to try
    cutting farm subsidies. The farm products markets have been tampered with by
    the government that the farmers need subsidies and price supports to get by,
    so we pay a part of our food costs in taxes which are then paid out to
    farmers through various government agencies.
       Ideally the government should get out of it and let farm products be sold
    on the open market and establish fair prices based on supply and demand. We
    would probably end up paying more at the market but it would be a fair
    exchange which would make a profit for the producer.
       The problem is convincing the 'user' that he should go cold turkey and
    take a chance that he not survive in honest competition. The government
    programs which wrecked the nations farm economy were begun as an answer to
    the fluctuations in commodity prices which made farming a speculative
    venture, the cure has proven worse than the disease though since the farmer
    is still not assured of any profit and is stuck with a type of welfare
    program to keep him in business.

    Message: 44883
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Alan
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 22:58:48

    No, the statement, "There are no absolute truths" is an absolute falsehood.

    Message: 44884
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 23:00:24

    Very well, if you wish to concede the argument you are welcome to do so.
    Since I have offered justification for my position and you have merely stuck
    by your position dogmatically, even though it is wrong, I take your message
    as a concession, even though you are too pig-headed to admit that you are
    backing down.

    Message: 44886
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Economic rights
    Date: 07/04/87  Time: 23:16:06

    As some of you may know, President Reagan has recently proposed what he
    calls an "economic bill of rights," which is, well, an economic bill of
    rights, calling for lower taxes, lower government spending, and so forth.
    Well, today, in the Democratic response to the President's weekly radio
    address, a congressman said that he agrees that an economic bill of rights
    is needed, but that his conception of the "rights" it should guarantee
    include the right to a high-paying job in good working conditions, the right
    to own a home (not the right to own property, mind you, but the right to own
    a home, presumably absent the need to pay for it), the right to go to
    college, and so forth.  Of course, one can infer the sort of policies that
    Democrats would call for in protecting these "rights"--higher taxes and big
    government expenditures to pay for all those homes and college educations,
    and maybe even a massive program to give civil-service jobs to all those
    people who need high-paying jobs in pleasant surroundings.  Of course, this
    suffers from the typical fallacy of the welfare state--it disregards the
    fact that productivity is going to be less in an economy in which the
    government, rather than free men and women, control resources and property.

    One can only hope that the Democrats do not apply this principle to other
    rights.  I can see it now:  "Freedom of the press doesn't mean that big
    companies can print whatever they want, it means that every individual is
    entitled to a morning paper and half an hour of evening news."  And to
    insure this, of course, the government would confiscate all printing presses
    and TV transmitters to make sure the news is provided.

    Message: 44887
    Author: $ David Burkhart
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 00:01:06

    Good point.
    There's a prevelant attitude that it is immoral to not have the government
    provide for everyone.  The fact is that it is immoral to take away peoples'
    freedoms, including the freedom Ann mentioned to "control one's money."
    When the government taxes to provide for everyone, they are really doing
    more harm than good by trying to do something the free market would do
    better.

    Message: 44888
    Author: $ Carol Graham
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: da Hamma
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:14:49

    Go South on 70th Street to the light at Thomas.
    Count
    Count
    and count again!

    It is not sensored!

    But my thoughts while I am dying there are censored!

    Carol->

    Message: 44889
    Author: $ Carol Graham
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT/Ann
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:19:59

    Ann conceded nothing, as far as I can see, she didn't
    even imply concession - merely a weariness from throwing
    facts against the brick wall of prejudice.

    Why, James, is it that when I fill out the forms for
    government contracts in my/hubbie's business that we get
    extra points if we hire minorities and a GREAT BIG POINT
    if the business should happen to be Woman-Owned?  I resent
    that - It does show that we are considered part of the
    great minority group. Why should my being a woman give our
    business a great big PLUS?

    Also, you really don't know the facts about the wage/salary
    discrepencies. Ask around. Take a poll. Face the facts.

    Carol->

    Message: 44890
    Author: $ Mark Adkins
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann's Dad
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 01:35:37

    Naw, it's too easy. Oh well, I will anyway;

    Your Dad must have an awfully long tongue...

    Message: 44891
    Author: $ James White
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod and Radio
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 08:30:22

    No, Rod, the reason I wouldn't have you on is that I would not be able to
    guarantee that you wouldn't go nuts and act like, well, like Rod.  Of
    course, I'm taking
    chance with Dennis McKinsey, but we'll see what happens..
         As for worship, what do you have against it?  You obviously worship
    yourself, so why get mad at God for demanding worship.  He's a whole lot
    more worthy of it than you, that's for sure!
         Also, you like to make it sound as if atheism is some sweeping world
    movement that is rolling millions into its cause.  Actually, practical
    atheism has always been the norm - most religious people are practical
    atheists in that they do not live their lives as if God really existed.
    Indeed, most of the "terrible" crimes committed by "religious" people that
    you like to point out were committed by practical atheists.  Then again,
    maybe the word "religious" people up above was the wrong choice.  To be
    religious one does not need to believe in a god - indeed, given your passion
    on the subject, you would be accurately called a "religious" atheist, as you
    seem to see it as some kind of cause to be pursued.  Anyway, if I want
    another atheist I've got lots of choices - even Tom Leykis said he'd
    participate if I wanted to.  I think I am being very fair with the whole
    series, as there will be 3 atheists and 2 Christian apologists.  Anyway,
    have a nice day, Rod, while all us Christians worship God because He is
    worthy of that worship.

    Message: 44892
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/farmers
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:11:22

    You put that all very nicely. I did want to mention - those farmers on the
    whole that we talked to in Wyoming actually gloated they were getting paid
    for nothing for the last 30 years!One told us that a government agent hadn't
    been buy to check on things for 15 years! God - I wanted to say something,
    but didn't dare!! It's such a close knit town and any outsiders are treated
    as such. Even though I am a wife of a native, they looked upon me as a
    wierd person being from the city. Women back there don't dye their hair
    blond and have very long fingernails - and they keep "their place!!!" I do
    all that - except "keep my place!" So they don't/would not consider anything
    I said to have much value expecially if it hit their pocketbooks!! - ANN

    Message: 44893
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James/pigheaded
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:17:48

    I did not back down, I backed off!! You have NOT changed my mind IN THE
    LEAST!! How could I possibly learn a thing from you if you persist in stupid
    name calling? There's a lot of people on this board that I might not agree
    with or them me, but they discuss things in an intelligent manor. Therefore,
    I pause and take thought at what they are saying. But I can't even agree
    with you without you coming back with sarcasum. Who needs it? Not I!!! - ANN

    Message: 44894
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Carol/J.T.
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:20:22

    Thanks for the "more facts" post. I'm sure this will go over Jame's head
    though. I don't know yet (after all our posts) where he gets his facts, but
    you can bet he doesn't "ask around" or "take a poll"!! -- ANN

    Message: 44895
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mark/dad
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:22:08

    Boy - I missed something here - didn't understand your last post to me about
    my dad's tongue. Please explain. Does that have anything to do with Cliff's
    Cockatiel? Hahahahahahaha. -- Ann

    Message: 44896
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: To who can answer
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 11:23:41

    Can anyone tell me what religion Hitler belonged to. This is not a trivia
    question - I don't know! I figured he might be a Lutheran!?

    Message: 44897
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 15:06:26

      Although we are by all odds the most social of all social
    animals - more interdependent, more attached to each other,
    more inseparable in our behavior than bees - we do not often
    feel our conjoined intelligence.  Perhaps, however, we are
    linked in circuits for the storage, processing, and
    retrieval of information, since this appears to be the most
    basic and universal of all human enterprises.  It may be our
    biological function to build a certain kind of (termite-like)
    Hill.  We have access to all the information of the
    biosphere, arriving as elementary units in the stream of
    solar photons.  When we have learned how these are
    rearranged against randomness, to make, say, springtails,
    quantum mechanics, and the late quartets, we may have a
    clearer notion how to proceed.  The circuitry seems to be
    there, even if the current is not always on.
    ...
      It is one of our problems that as we become crowded
    together, the sounds we make to each other, in our
    increasingly complex communications systems, become more
    random-sounding, accidental or incidental, and we have
    trouble selecting meaningful signals out of the noise.  One
    reason is, of course, that we do not seem able to restrict
    our communication to information-bearing, relevant signals.
    Given any new technology for transmitting information, we

    Message: 44898
    Author: $ Apro Poet
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Life
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 15:07:28

    seem bound to use it for great quantities of small talk.  We
    are only saved by music from being overwhelmed by nonsense.

    Message: 44899
    Author: Jacqueline Mitchell
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: to Ann Qudin
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 18:56:22

    Jesus is actually pronounced (Hey-suce).  It is Mexican.  (Jesus) is
    actually the way the English or Americans pronounce it.  It is a mexican
    name.

    Message: 44900
    Author: $ Jim Lippard
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Denton
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 19:25:30

    Denton is an M.D.  Bethell's review should be taken with the additional
    knowledge that Bethell does not understand natural selection (see Stephen
    Jay Gould's response to his article in Harper's, it is in one of Gould's
    first three collections of essays from Natural History).  Montagu is a quite
    reputable source, so Denton's book is very probably worth reading.
    (I assume this is "Evolution: Theory in Crisis".)
       It sounds to me like Denton's book is a critique of Darwinism, not of
    evolution.  If so, it is not a defense of creationism (which is not a
    scientific theory at all).

    Message: 44901
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: JT
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 20:17:16

       Its kind of strange that he can be so irritating regardless of what he is
    saying. Not long ago he was saying the exact opposite of everything he says
    now and was just as overbearing and conceited sounding as he is now if not
    more so. I agree with most of what he is saying now to some degree since I
    had those views before he switched over to them, but his delivery is almost
    enough to make anyone reconcider agreeing with him on anything.
       See you later,
         Dean

    Message: 44902
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Farmers
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 20:32:32

      My wife and I both come from farm families and have relatives still
    farming today. My relatives seem to avoid the government programs where
    possible and complain about them a lot while hers take every possible
    advantage of them and complain about them even more. My relatives are from
    the northwest and deal in a variety of crops while hers are from the midwest
    and raise mostly grain crops.
      If someone were to put together a private service to advise them on which
    crops to grow in what quantity at a given time to make a profit so that they
    didn't overproduce some crops and lose money on them while underproducing
    others it would do a lot more good than the government price supports and
    surplus food disposal system we have now. It would take a nationwide
    database with input from enough farmers to be able to get an overall picture
    of how much of each crop was being planted. Someone would have to find a way
    to tell thier lobbyists and other political helpers that they were no longer
    needed to promote and administer the farm welfare state however.
      See you later,
        Dean

    Message: 44903
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: James White
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 22:15:53

    I haven't gone 'nuts' in years......I could be likened to what I previously
    stated, a counterpart of a Southern Baptist Preacher.  I have that right.
    You christians seem to think that you are the only ones who can 'bandwagon'
    but you have another 'think' coming.   I find your god gross.
      I am NOT religious in any way, the thought sickens me.
    James, can't you understand that anything that wants or needs worship from
    its creations would have to be touched in the head?  Of course if you are
    right and a creator exists, ya know, the one who designed the universe, well
    just the way he placed our earth in relation to our sun shows signs of
    stupidity.  I could have done so much better.
      Just as JT likes to attack  those he considers in error, so do I and hey,
    what can I say, this god guy is the sickest one I know.
      Tell you what, why don't we grab a Pepsi together some evening and have a
    nice pleasant chat......recall that Tim Toy & I had one....and I did not
    breath fire and devour him.
      Your move.
                                    Rod

    Message: 44904
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/Mark/lick
    Date: 07/05/87  Time: 22:17:28

    You stated that your dad could lick James dad and Mark replied that your dad
    must have a long tongue.   Got it now?

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