### Apollo BBS Archive - July 10, 1990

    Mail from Jeff Beck
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 04:18:58

    [A]bort, [N]ew only, [R]ead or [S]kip:Read

    Well, I dunno...it's like taking candy from a baby.  What did you have in
    mind?
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I guess just do more of what we are doing.
     2:
     3:Quote for today:  "We learn from our mistakes" -God
     4:

    X-Rated Cosmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 3993
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question ?
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 05:04:09

    What does that mean?  Are you saying you have been a cow?  Are you saying
    that it is natural for creatures whose instinct is to wander and graze to be
    pent up and slaughtered by wicked men using infernal devices?  Do *you* know
    the last walk into the abbatoir?

    Message: 3994
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: $#!+
    Subject: last two
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 15:21:37

    No, a little calf whispered it in my ear.

    ;-)

    Message: 3995
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Jokes & Ha Ha's
    Subject: Indoor Golf
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 17:22:22

                                  13 Rules of Indoor Golf

     1.       Each player will furnish his own equipment for play - normally
              one club and two balls.

     2.       Course to be played must be approved by owner of hole.

     3.       Unlike outdoor golf, the object is to get the club in the hole
              and keep the balls out of the hole.

     4.       For the most effective play, the club should have a stiff shaft.
              Course owners are permitted to check the stiffness of the shaft
              before play begins.

     5.       Course owner has right to restrict the length of club to avoid
              damage to the hole.

    6.       Players must take as many strokes as required to satisfy the
             course owner.  Failure to do so may cause player to be barred from
             the course.

    7.       It is considered bad form to begin playing the hole immediately
             upon arriving at the course.  It is customary to admire the entire
             course, paying special attention to the well formed bunkers and
             well manicured bushes.

     8.       Players are cautioned not to mention other courses they may have
              played to the course owner.  Course owners have been known to
              damage players equipment for this reason.

     9.       Special permission may be required in order to play more than one
              hole on the same course.

    10.       Players should be sure match is properly scheduled, especially
              when playing new course for the first time.  Previous players
              may take exception to someone else playing what they think is
              their private hole.

    11.       Some course owners may put hole out of bounds on certain days of
              the month.  Owners may refuse play at any time, for any reason.

    12.       It is considered outstanding performance to play the same hole
              several times in one match.

    13.       Course owners shall be the judge as to who is the best player.
              It is considered bad form for a player to reveal his score to
              other players.  Players who have contracted for exclusive rights
              to play a private course are advised against informing the
              course owner of play on other courses.  Such revelation may
              result in cancelled contract and suit for damages.

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 67336
    Author: Will Surstain
    Category: News Today
    Subject: chemicals
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 02:48:58

     I have one for you bbs people. Since 1985 we have had
    people coming down with what has been called the "yuppie plague".
    The symptoms will be listed along with what in 1986 was called
    the "bafflings ills that hit `silicon valley' workers"

    part 1

    Message: 67337
    Author: Will Surstain
    Category: News Today
    Subject: chemicals
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 02:50:14

    yuppie plague                            baffling ills
    -------------------------------------    -----------------------------
    tiredness                                fatigue
    fever & sore throat                      chronic colds and flus
                                             nausea
                                             skin disease
                                             susceptibility to disease
    temporary memory loss                    memory loss
    confusion                                impaired concentrating
                                             chronic headaches
                                             dizziness
                                             fainting
    lethargy : a condition of drowsiness
               or indifference
    depression : a psychiatric syndrome     irritability
                 consisting of dejected      sudden violent mood swings
                 mood, psychomotor           psychotic reactions
                 retardation, insomnia,
                 and weight loss, sometimes
                 associated with guilt
                 feelings and somatic
                 preoccupations, often of
                 delusional proportions.

                                     &
           The two articles are "Baffling ills hit `Silicon Valley'
           workers" Arizona Republic Sunday Dec. 14, 1986 and "Depression
           may cause fatigue illness, study says" Arizona Republic July 5,
           1990.
                                     &
           There was a news story of a woman that complained about the
           pollution that plants were venting and dumping into the
           environment. She tried to warn the people. She moved after her
           children started having headaches and breathing problems.
                                   &
           This unallowable thought. The next time you start getting ill
           look around and see who wants your job or who you got mad at
           you.
                                    &
           because today its a bitter world thru chemistry.
                                    &
           This is just an opinion.  I have no medical background.

    part 3

    Message: 67339
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cummings
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 04:22:26

    There you go again, jumping to conclusions.

    I like some of Chesterton's work; I didn't know Chesterton.
    I haven't read much Hemingway.  What little I have read makes me think that
    he was a very insecure man with little or no redeeming moral qualities.  I
    also dislike his writing -- both the content and the style.
    I suppose that you'll next ask me if I like Melville?

    Message: 67340
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cummings
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 04:24:23

    This is a public board.  If you wish private discourse I suggest the Post
    Office: even the SysOp can't read that; it's "greeked".
    Nowhere in message #67301 did I paraphrase you or attack a straw man.  You
    ask me to respond to what you say; I cannot respond to your intent, but I
    can respond to your words.  I challenge you to prove I did otherwise.

    Back to the issues, development is not necessarily manifest by a change from
    simple to complex.  Our current system of civil and criminal law is
    exponentially more complex than it was in its origin or infancy; to refer to
    this change as "development" is moot.
    As I pointed out, the universe is heading for entropy.
    The energy available for useful work has decreased throughout its life.  In
    the end, it will be as static and "simple" as a corpse; more so, in fact,
    because even in a corpse putrescence occurs, and that is a sign of life.
    If then, we must impose anthropomorphic similes upon nature, we can only
    liken its decay to the aging of a man; and the universe is decidedly
    moribund.

    Message: 67341
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod on Mike
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 04:59:48

    Yes, he comprehends.  But man is not characteristically a rational animal,
    despite John Cummings' incessant boasts.  Mike sees, Mike comprehends, but
    Mike doesn't care; he is not motivated by ignorance or reason; he *feels*
    the sting of our messages as though by some poisonous insect, and his reflex
    response is to swat.

    Message: 67342
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod / Hospitals...
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 07:36:48

    ...filled with people with all sorts of serious problems.

       Have you ever taken a day and just gone in and talked with patients in a
    hospital? It can be a very moving and richly rewarding experience. Too many
    people forget someone once they become terribly ill. Friends and family
    don't want to deal with them anymore. To have someone come in and talk with
    them and find out what is on their mind, and just to see someone other than
    the doctors and nurses and interns and the stupid TV...can make their day.
       Some of these people just need a reason to live. Someone who considers
    them important enough to spend some time on them. Sometimes you don't even
    have to say much - they'll do most of the talking. It's amazing how much
    conversation can get bottled up inside a person, just waiting for an outlet.

    Daryl

    Message: 67343
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod / Mocking
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 07:42:26

       I could go back to each of your re:Christian posts, and find at least 1
    mocking comment. I think you are just so used to doing that that you don't
    realize it. Only when you really focus your Christian hatred in a wall of
    focused venom, do you consciously remember it.

    Daryl

    Message: 67344
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod / See Us Get Btr
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 07:45:10

       Well, you will find that all Christians realize that they have a
    "sickness," of which there is only one solution.

       However, there are also the spiritually sick out there that will
    continually deny that they have a problem.

       It goes both ways.

       We pray for a speedy recovery for ya, Rod.

    Daryl

    Message: 67345
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Japan That Says No
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 07:47:14

    Is there someone with an IBM that could unpack that file for me and send it
    to me, either as an .ARChive or file-by-file using Ymodem-g? I would really
    like to read that, if that is what I think it is.

    Daryl

    Message: 67346
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 07:59:55

    "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."

                                                      - PT Barnum

    Message: 67347
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: John/Evolution
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 08:08:17

    Probably not. Species tend to last only a few million years. BTW, an
    interesting side-discussion could be had about conservationists trying to
    save endagered species. Does it help or hinder nature. If mankind provides
    selection pressures such that species become extinct, should mankind try to
    save these species or should it allow them to disappear ?

    Message: 67348
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on Andy
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 09:09:35

    Yeah - I think Andy was a perfect example. They treated him terriable
    considering this is supposed to be a country when you have the right to
    state your opinions. That cartoon was another one.

    It seems the gays do not/will not take any responsibility - they seem to
    want the doctors to cure it so they can continue - nor do they want any
    criticism for their actions least they label you! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67349
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on taxes
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 09:12:17

    I cannot believe you believe in 'sin taxes'!!! Naw! Actually, we pay less
    taxes on those than most of the rest of the world. My gripe was - he speaks
    out of the side of his mouth (Bush! Bush who?) -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67350
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: John on Homos
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 09:16:03

    Can you quote some statistics on women lesbians having AIDS? They can't be
    --- uh ---- rump humpers - ahem! You know what I mean. (Blush) All that I've
    read on the statistics - they just used the word 'gays' but didn't define
    male and or female. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67351
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Bobby & John
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 09:21:35

    But isn't the definition of a prostitute as one that sells 'it' and the
    definition of a whore is one that will give it away - to anybody that asks?
    Just curious. Chippie - one who will give it to a lot - loose woman - one
    that will give it to some - Nempho - one that will give it to a gear stick
    shift if a guy ain't around or to one at a time - like ten in a row????
                             *Heh -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. Is this post a 'trip to the Zone' Cliffy? (Cringe!) I tried to use
    decorum in wordage.

    Message: 67352
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on suing
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 09:32:17

    Boyee - did you hit the nail on the head with that post Bobby. I too read
    that article and wondered why they figured the doctor was at fault! Yeah -
    just soak the rich - forget that when you do, this causes medical in general
    to go higher and higher! Ditto insurance. Forget it does destroy lives,
    careers that some doctor has worked years for. Lets soak um? Why not?What
    have they done to deserve all that money anyway? Ditto the lawyers! Heck,
    lets make them rich too! Bah Humbug! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67353
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Public Board
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 10:19:27

    Gee, I'm so glad it's staying squeaky clean.

    Message: 67354
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rumphumpers etc.
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 10:43:32

    I never had a problem with the idea of homosexuality in the abstract.  It's
    funny, there are so many problems caused by people's refusal to see things
    from somebody else's point of view: an inability to put themselves in one
    another's situations.  And yet with gay guys it seems to be the opposite: in
    one respect at least, people put themselves in the gay guy's situation too
    much.  "Oh, YUCK!  Just think!  Can you IMAGINE doing that?  EUUURRRGGGHHH!"
    Perhaps if that nauseating reaction didn't take place, people wouldn't have
    such a horror of homosexuality -- in men, at least.  And isn't it
    significant that gay men on the whole seem to arouse more antagonism than
    gay women?

    Well, it doesn't appeal to me either.  But apparently it does appeal to
    around 10% of men.  My father (who wasn't talking about homosexuality at the
    time) used to say "As the old lady said when she kissed the cow: 'It's a
    matter of taste.'"  I don't like beets much either.  Never have, for some
    reason.  But I don't abuse people who offer them to me.  My wife likes them.
    It really is a matter of taste.  Come to think of it, she's a lot more
    turned on by men than I am, as well.

    Ah, now that's the way to think about it.  Suppose I were a woman.  I mean,
    suppose I were born with a woman's body, but this male brain.  And I kept
    saying to myself "Boy, am I turned on by all these beautiful women around
    me.  Trouble is, whenever I try to make any advances to them, everyone keeps
    calling me a pervert..."

    I suppose these unspeakable things they do are really a sort of last resort,
    since they don't have the right plumbing to do anything else.  Bit of a bind
    really.  Ever try to fasten two things together with two bolts and no nuts?
    I guess if some piece of their brain is a bit different from mine (and
    current theory says it probably happens before birth), then they have to do
    the best with what they've got.  They do other things too.  I'll bet there's
    hardly anything they do that men don't do with women as well.  But with a
    man and a woman, people don't object as much.  Not unless they live in
    Louisiana.  Or is it Alabama?  Probably both.

    Yes, gay men do have to take responsibility for not spreading AIDS.  Apart
    from what they do, are they more promiscuous than hetero couples?  Some of
    them are.  Some others are monogamously "married".  But men on average are a
    bit more quickly stimulated to feeling sexy; more rarin' to go.  Less likely
    to put up objections to getting on with the main event.  Especially with two
    strangers.  Women -- well, I'm generalizing of course, but they're more
    likely to insist on the dinner first, a nice conversation, some flowers,
    maybe a fur coat or two.  Stands to reason when you put two men together,
    you're likely to get quicker results than with a man and a woman.

    Can't blame them for wanting to see a cure, all the same.  It would put a
    crimp in my style if I had to use condoms all the time.  Had a girlfriend
    once who couldn't stand them either.  And as for the people who already HAVE
    the disease -- safe sex, or no sex, won't help them any.  Only a cure will.

    Message: 67356
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taxes
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 10:51:08

    I believe in sin tax.

    And grammer.  And speling...  And pronounsiashun...
    And morfo...  morf...  well, you know, all that stuff...

    Message: 67357
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: B-Day
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 11:12:14

            Re: GT-B-Day party

            We have 13 people that posted they plan on attending....

    I would like to see Carol Graham, Steve M, Jack Flash, Roger M. and a few
    other TRY to attend the GT on the 28th of this month....  How about you?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67358
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 12:49:45

    I always held out for 'a fur coat or two' myself! *Heh -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 67359
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ronnie Barlow
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 12:54:55

    Pity Ronnie Barlow couldn't have run fast enough to get back home and lure
    the guy into his house.  Then he could have blown him away quite safely.  I
    hope.  Come to think of it, since he's black they might have found something
    to hang on him anyway -- like "entrapment"...

    Message: 67360
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Behavior problems
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 12:59:16

    I guess a number of different things can be lumped together and grouped into
    a superclass called "behavioral problems".  Only I don't see where that gets
    us in terms of a goal.  I suppose a reasonable goal is to solve a problem,
    or a set of problems.  Most problem-solving techniques and procedures call
    for clear separation of steps -- defining the problem, analyzing the
    problem, identifying possible causes, generating solutions, and testing
    solutions.  Solutions are separate from problems, and often depend on
    causes; so pinpointing the cause is far from irrelevant.  If the person
    causing the problem is to take responsibility for fixing it, he may well
    need to understand the cause so as to find a way of combating it.

    One requirement is a statement of who "owns the problem".  That's not who
    (or what) *caused* it, but who is the *victim* of it.  No victim, no
    problem.  If the person controlling the cause also owns the problem, he is
    more motivated to fix it.  Alcoholics, wife-beaters, child abusers generally
    have victims such as children, wives, employers, dead pedestrians etc.  An
    alcoholic who ends up feeling crummy "owns" part of the problem himself; he
    may be more motivated to fix it than a wife beater or child abuser, say.

    Victims of the homosexual "problem" are those who get AIDS.  Again, the
    problem itself must be accurately defined.  The problem is "contracting a
    fatal disease".  Certain behavior is only part of a chain of causes.  It is
    within homosexuals' ability to contribute to a solution; but without the
    disease, there would be no victims -- so no "behavior problem".

    Message: 67361
    Author: $ Gordon Little
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Fur coats
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 13:01:48

    Do you have a very large collection?  :-)

         - Gordon

    Message: 67362
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gordon on Gays
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 15:05:01

    Interesting viewpoint.
    I saw a Phil Donahou show yesterday with gay couples on it.  One lady was 72
    before she "came out of the closet" and one gay couple had been together for
    over 40 years, the other almost 60.
    From what I have heard from the gay men I have met, anal sex is not
    something they do very often.  In fact, I know 3 gay men who say that they
    wont be a part of anal sex.  I do know of one hetero couple that does.
    I don't understand why people (men in particular) get so upset about
    homosexuality.  There was a program on KFYI this morning and people were
    calling in saying that if a teacher at their children's school was gay, they
    would definitely move the kid out of the class and try to get the teacher
    fired.  I don't understand why gayness is so threating.

    Message: 67363
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 15:20:13

    You illustrate my point exactly.
    Poking at people's "sacred cows" shows a gross lack of
    understanding...and when you do it to purposely aggrivate and
    upset them, you're no better than those you've condemned..worse
    because you go out of your way to hurt.

    My faith in God isn't a sacred cow. Cows can die and most scared ones
    end up on the receiving end of a lot of B-B-Q sauce.
    I think, I rationalize, and I study.
    I have a high enough IQ that I need not sweat judgement from people
    who would want others to think otherwise just because my
    words conflict with theirs.{

    Enjoy.

            -Mike

    Message: 67364
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Westfall/Japan book
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 15:41:34

            I can put it in the ibrary for a short time in an ASCII format if
    you wish to ownload it that way.  The file size ZIPped is only 74K, but
    in ASCII form it will be about 192K.  Can you handle this? Anyone else?

            This is the Book, America was not suppose to see. This book has
    caused a ruckus on Capital Hill, so it is the one you are thinking of.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67365
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Religion
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 15:53:04

    I think god would use a felttip pen.
    And I don't think a being of his stature would have to worry about
    translations.
    Did you all think about some of those questions I asked?
    Gee, I wish someone would give me an honest opinion, I would have asked, if
    I wouldn't have wanted answers.
    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 67366
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: School
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 15:56:06

    For anybody who is interested, today I was accepted at GCU and I'll be
    starting Aug 24th, thats when I move into the dorm atleast.
    Thanks again to all the folks who help me with their advice, and helped to
    change my mind about DeVry.
    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 67367
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Lojban
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 17:17:15

    (the following was received by me across the computer network from my friend
    Mike.  Use whatever info you can.  Perhaps we can all pool $50 and share the
    courseware (*not* through copying) ???)

    Date:  Monday, 9 July 1990 18:21 mst
    From:  Michael Grant
    Subject:  Lojban
    To:  Harvey at SYSTEM-M
    Organization:  National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
    Sub-Organization:  National Computer Systems Laboratory

    Ok, the guy you need to contact is lojbab%snark@uunet.uu.net.
    They've formed some sort of non-profit organization.  They are asking
    for approximatly $50 tax deductable donation to get the latest
    course-ware and the quarterly mailings.  About $15 a year gets you
    just the quarterly mailings.

    There is also a lojban list: lojban-list%snark@uunet.uu.net.
    (use lojban-list-request%snark@uunet.uu.net to subscribe)

    lojbab, (Bob LeChevalier)'s phone number is 703-385-0273 in case
    you want to call him directly.

    (if someone wants a US Mail address, I will request it)

    Message: 67368
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JAPAN.ZIP
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 19:04:22

    {        I made a MISTAKE... Anyone who can handle ZIP files can read the
    JAPAN.ZIP file in the ibrary.   NOT just IBM like I first said.
    When UNZIPPED, it becomes JAPAN.TXT, and that is an ASCII file.

    Sorry...
                            Thanks Mutt!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67369
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GCU, RONNIE BARLOW
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:17:23

    GCU: Mad Max, you made a good choice.  You will like it there, the people
    are friendly, the instructors are helpful.  I am by no means a christian,
    but I did get a good education (in CS, not CIS), as did my sister.  Say
    hello to Mrs. Miller, Mr. Thompson, Dr. Wing, if they are still around.
    They WILL remember me :) !

    Ronnie Barlow/E.J. Montini:  Montini did state the facts of the case
    truthfully, yet he fibbed on that gun owners not supporting Barlow part.
    Yes, there were but 20 of us out there marching for Barlow (and the rest of
    you should be ashamed you weren't there, Montini is partially right on that
    one).  I even went to the sentencing hearing last Friday, where were you
    guys?

    I called Montini twice, and left messages, but he hasn't called me back,
    because he is a yellow journalist, and is not interested in hearing about
    gun owner trying to help Barlow.  All gun owners are racists, in his view.

    If you want to help Barlow, but have no time, send your contributions to the
            "Ronnie Barlow Defense Fund"
            P.O. Box 34276
            Phoenix, AZ  85067
    This is for real.  Barlow needs a better attorney, the public defender is
    overloaded, and he needs an expert witness (Masaad Ayoob is the choice).
    Please help, for you too might be jailed for defending yourself one day.

    Message: 67370
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Rod on John C.
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:31:47

            Okay, I'm confused, re: your #67322. I don't avoid your
    questions--it seems to me you asked the Christians on this board to go check
    with their pastors for a defense of religion to present to the ragged
    heathen Rod. Sounded like a good idea to me, so I tried to answer you: I
    hoipe I find your response to my post, not just a personal diatribe against
    me with insults instead of reason.     --John C.--

    Message: 67371
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod on God
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:38:17

            Ah, there's an "answer" I guess. Please, don't leap to what you
    think I mean or what you imagine is in my mind or what you want me to argue.
    Let's discuss what you asked for, okay?
            Now we've established the position of evolution, right? Please don't
    bring your version of God into this, and don't make up your own rules about
    what God should do, in order to follow Rod's worldview.
            Let's just go to step 2: do you admit that his evolution has
    proceeded from the less complex to the more complex? That the beings which
    exist on earth today are more complex than the warm slime from which all
    life evolved? (That's what evolutionists hold, anyway.)
            Please answer this, don't evade it, then we'll try step 3.
                                    --John C.--

    Message: 67372
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: J. Beck/Literature
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:45:26

            Hell, everyone likes Melville, until they read those reviews whichj
    suggest that maybe he was homosexual, then lots say they don't like any
    more. Strange critics eh?    --John C.--

    Message: 67373
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Beck/evolution
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:49:41

            Sorry I was not more precise--I meant, of course, the evolution of
    the creatures of this world from the one- or two-celled animals which the
    evolutionists claim as beginning, to modern creatures; dolphins, great apes,
    chimps, man, etc. I ask if you see this as adevelopment from the less to the
    more complex?      --John C.--

    Message: 67374
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff on John
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:51:59

            Hey, I don't "boast" incessantly of man's rational and animal
    traits. I simply point them out, and submit that rationality is a trait not
    found in the other animals, only in the human.    --John C.--

    Message: 67375
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/Evolution
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:55:15

            Oh boy, I was hoping someone would make that point! Well done,
    Roger! But I think that could be a side discussion that would take the rest
    of the decade.  Do you have a comment on the 20,000 families who may be out
    of work to save those damn 450 owls?    --John C.--

    Message: 67376
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann/Homos
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 20:58:19

            St. Joseph's Hospital has a bulletin board you can get to with a
    modem--# 235-9653.   They have a program which goes on about 10 pages of
    statistics on ALL types. (I never could figure out what women do, and I've
    always been too ashamed to ask.)     --John C.--

    Message: 67377
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Masaad Ayoob
    Date: 07/10/90  Time: 21:45:14

            I don't think that guy ever heard a shot fired in anger.  Why don't
    you get James Jarret... He will be an expert witness... and yes, he has done
    this many times before.   Need a phone number Mike?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SysOp *=*  <-clif-

    Message: 67378
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Masaad Ayoob
    Date: 07/11/90  Time: 00:25:46

    Would be viewed as a radical gun nut by any half dim prosecuting
    attorney. Ayoob is too well known in the SOF circles and that
    would bring a devastating effect on his defense.

    After meeting James Jarret, I think this man would better serve
    as an expert witness. Besides, he's also local.

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:Various

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:I don't want to scroll a bunch of messages so I will use this one to answer
     2:several.
     3:
     4:Gordon:  Good posts on gays.
     5:
     6:Jeff on Mike:  Yes.
     7:
     8:Jeff L.  Yes.
     9:
    10:John C.:  Yes, it appears that from the first beginnings of life that cells
    11:have joined together to make a more complex structure.  How come you avoided
    12:(like everyone else) answering my simply questions?  Anyway there is the
    13:answer you've been holding your breath for.  Now on to #3.
    14:
    15:Thanks.
    16:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 67379

    Message: 67380
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: TRUE STORY
    Date: 07/11/90  Time: 01:00:50

                            CONFESSION OF A PERVERT
                                              - by rod williams, I

    It is not that I am knocking any person living or dead, it is that I, how
    to put this...I am accepting a challenge, so to speak.

    I'll put it this way:  I have been told on many an occasion by many
    different individuals that unless I did such and such that I, Rod Williams
    would go to hell when my body was shed.  In other words, when I die.

    Now the NERVE of the people who tell me that.  Where do they get the right?
    Therein my animosity lies.

    Therefore I love to 'take the challenge' and go directly to the so-called
    source, the God who will put me in hell along with the people who believe
    this mish-mash trash.

    That is why I publicly call this most high whatamacallit a illiterate idiot
    and much, much worse.  Much worse.

    I relish in delight at the thoughts that must be going through these
    hillbillies minds when I smash the little pimp down to proper size.

    No one has the right to dictate to me how I will be spending my eternity.
    If someone wants to believe that heaven or hell exists then I suggest they
    keep it to themselves or at least leave me, my family and my friends out of
    the picture.  Keep your beliefs to yourself, in otherwords.

    It is the sick person who promotes this stuff and in their effort they have
    created for themselves a sick deity.

    I'll stop picking on old wimp-face if you adhere to my wishes, otherwise
    expect more of the same.

    Why you'd think that old wimp-face could stand up on his own two feet and
    defend himself.  After all isn't he all powerful?

    On the other side of things, other than where religion rears its ugly head,
    I see bright intelligence in the Christian Camp.  In each individual, even
    Paul Savage I see goodness and expression and thoughtful opinion.

    And Jeff L. should switch majors to philosophy instead of CS.

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