### Apollo BBS Archive - Feburary 19 - 21, 1990

    Message: 63474
    Author: Bob Bell  (Me!)
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Interesting
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 20:56:31

    I find it so very interesting that whenever we read or hear of a murder or
    other crime by the media that this little message is added:

            Police are checking to see if it is drug related.

    This is pure bullcrap.  I am reminded of Hitler's Germany here.  Just
    substitute the word 'drug' for 'jew' and by golly, I think we've got it.

    And all you people from San Diego, go home now!

    Message: 63475
    Author: Bob Bell
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: I like drugs
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 21:00:58

                            I LIKE DRUGS

                                    by Bob Bell

    Drugs are good and good for you.
            I use some everyday.

    I like to put them in me so I will feel high.
            Drug suppositories are the best though.

    The storm breaks the tree that does not bend.

    A penny saved is a penny urned.

    Message: 63476
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike/Fish
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 22:18:26

    The fish became a symbol of Christianity because the first letters of the
    words...

               Jesus
               Christ
               God's
               Son
               Savior

    ...in the Greek language spelled out "IKTHUS," which just happens to be the
    Greek word for "fish." And we are also "fishers of men."

    As for the dove, it symbolizes the Holy Spirit (remember the baptism of
    Christ?) though you tend to see this symbol more around Pentecostals.

    I don't mean to get picky, but this verbal "beating-down" of Christian
    symbols sounds quite a bit like the Jehovah's Witnesses dislike for the
    cross (because it was a pagan symbol...which makes sense when you figure
    that many of the Greeks of that period WERE pagans).

    A new symbol? How about an empty tomb?

    Message: 63477
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Suicide
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 22:21:17

    I can't believe this, I AGREE WITH YOU! Not only is it a selfish act, but a
    deceptive one that offers what seems to be the ultimate act of revenge upon
    the friends and relatives, but actually turns against them, as they cannot
    live to relish their act of selfish revenge.

    Message: 63478
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ralph - Eye For Eye
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 22:24:47

    How does that make us any better than the person that we are punishing? And
    since you wish to take the "eye for eye" to "it's limits," then what about
    the person that serves the sentenced punishment - are they to be punished as
    well, for they have committed the same crime. I'm just trying to see how far
    your "limits" really are.

    I feel that there are some criminals who deserve the death penalty, but that
    does not mean that we have to stoop to their level of depravity in carrying
    out their sentence. After all, there is not too much that one can do to
    retalliate once dead.

    Message: 63479
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jim/63425
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 22:38:44

    Jim, just because someone in the past (or present) who claims to be a Chris-
    tian, does something wrong even though I have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT and NO
    CONTROL OVER IT, does that make me responsible? Example: White people during
    the early years of this country's existence brought African citizens to this
    country against their will and forced them to work in inhumane conditions.
    Does that make you, as a white American, responsible for that atrocity? I
    can only live for God and myself. I cannot live for anyone else. If you do
    not hold yourself personally responsible for the kidnapping and slavery of
    blacks in the 1700s, then you can in no way attempt to hold me responsible
    for others who, claiming to follow Christ, have committed numerous
    horrible atrocities and slandered the name of the God they claimed to
    follow. I cannot live their lives. I had no part in the Spanish Inquisition
    and could not do anything to change it EVEN THOUGH I WOULD IF IT WERE
    POSSIBLE. Even in the present: I am not Jim Bakker, I am not Jimmy Swaggart,
    I do not support how they have abused their positions as servants of God. I
    live my own life and try to let my love for my God show in my daily
    activities. Are you going to try and hold me accountable for Swaggart's or
    Bakker's transgressions?

    Message: 63480
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Lippard/63427
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 22:40:18

    Suicide, properly carried out, cannot be prosecuted even if illegal. So what
    is your beef?

    [Please do not take this to be an endorsement on my part of suicide.]

    Message: 63481
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ralph/Hole To Hell
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 22:58:37

       First of all, you need to consider the source of the news article, and I
    believe it was TASS. TASS, also reported a encounter with UFO beings. The
    report tends to strip God of some of His omnipotence, as only He holds the
    keys to death and Hades (Revelation 1:18). Also, the concept of Hell being
    in the center of the earth (unless anyone can prove me wrong through
    Scripture) is not Scriptural. They could not build a tower up to heaven, and
    they cannot dig a hole into hell. Worry not.

    Message: 63482
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Suicide Addendum
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 23:05:49

    Yes, there are those who commit suicide out of loneliness and utter despair.
    But even those are decieved, and of course I could go into detail, but I'm
    sure you know where I am coming from. Suffice to say that it is not an
    express route to eternal peace.

    Message: 63483
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Question?
    Subject: CLIFF
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 23:30:25

         If you resent the gov't telling you to "Just say No to Drugs", why are
    you supporting this gov't coercion by offering free 'Just Say No' discount
    cards to anyone that want them? (message #63371).  Why not toss 'em out and
    JUST SAY NO to gov't coercion instead?  Sounds like propagandizing blackmail
    to me.

    Message: 63484
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ZIPPY
    Date: 02/19/90  Time: 23:32:05

       In today's (Monday) Az Republic Life & Leisure, the Zippy comic featured
    'Bob' Dobbs and the Church of the SubGenius.

        First Moffin & his hollow earth theory and now this.  What is this world
    coming to?

    Message: 63485
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike Middleton
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 00:25:28

    Gosh!  You knew both my pseudonyms!  Should I be surprised, after Roger Mann
    explicitly pointed them out to you?  And stop being such a contemptible
    hypocrite.  I only started baiting you after you euphamistically refered to
    me as "soft stuff" which you intended to avoid stepping in.  Furthermore, I
    think that you read my replies on the other board two days ago: that's when
    they were posted.  No doubt you thought you had a great argument, and you'd
    chase me over here and embarass me with it.  All of this, because you are
    too dense to understand my original statement in the original context:
    You made the remark that "All the Lord wants us to do is relax in His love,"
    and I retorted that it's kind of hard to do that when you are in an
    Argentine prison having your gonads shocked by a cattle prod.  My point,
    you metaphorically cross-eyed git, was NEVER that torture necessarily
    destroys religious beliefs (it often intensifies them), but rather, IT'S
    KIND OF HARD TO RELAX IN HIS LOVE WHEN YOU ARE IN AN ARGENTINE PRISON HAVING
    YOUR GONADS SHOCKED BY A CATTLE PROD!!!

    Now then, stop being so insufferably silly.

    Message: 63486
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: In search of
    Subject: New Age Humor
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 00:28:35

    Q. What did one spirit entity say to another?
    A. "Take my life -- please!"

    Q. Why did the medium cross the road?
    A. To get to the other side!

    Q. What do you call a fortuneteller who's just had a baby?
    A. A crystal packin' momma.

    Q. What did the manager give the past-life regressionist?
    A. A womb with a view.

    Message: 63487
    Author: Steve Hodode
    Category: Joke
    Subject: LANGUAGE
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 01:02:16

            THE  PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC'S DICTIONARY
                                    .
    ALIEN_NATION : MENTAL DERANGEMENT, INSANITY.
                 : A WITHDRAWING OR SEPERATION OF A PERSON OR HIS AFFECTION
                   FROM AN OBJECT OR POSITION OF ATTACHMENT.
             MY DOC TOLD ME THAT ALIENATION WOULDN'T BE GOOD SO I
             CAN'T WATCH ALIENATION ON MONDAY NIGHT AT 8PM ON GHA/Ns\P~~
                          .
    DAD   :  A SEVERE BLOW.
           THE DOC. TOLD ME THAT ALL MY PROBLEMS WERE CAUSED BY MY DAD.
                                   .
    BRAINSTORM : A VIOLENT TRANSIENT FIT OF INSANITY.
               : A SUDDEN BRIGHT IDEA.
             THE DOC. SAID A GOOD BRAINSTORM WOULD HELP ME OUT
             BUT I DIDN'T KNOW IT IF WAS A BRIGHT IDEA TO TRY THE
             FIRST OR A FIT OF INSANITY TO THINK I COULD DO THE
             SECOND.

    Message: 63488
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Peter Petrisko
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 01:17:23

            The Government did not print up the cards.   And, even if they did,
    I don't mind them requesting that people should just say "No" to drugs.
    What I resent is them passing stupid laws where their noses do not belong.
    I am all for the education about drugs if it is truthful.....

            We pay (waste) tax dollars on these laws...the more laws they pass,
    the more money they take, till there is nothing you won't need a permit to
    do and no money left to do it.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63489
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on education
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 03:37:04

         I don't see any problem with private schools, for those who can afford
    it.  Trouble is, many parents can't.  As for church, I doubt there are very
    many churches that could pay qualified teachers of a variety of subjects.  I
    don't consider churches a good source of information anyway, and that is
    clearly not their purpose.

         True, there is drug use among high school students, and there are
    cliques.  This is not the result of the school system, it's the nature of
    teenagers.  Some teens will do drugs whether or not they're in school, and
    some won't.  Cliques are a defense mechanism caused by the fear of different
    types of people and occur in real society.  In short, high school is a
    microcosm of society and this fact does not make an elementary and high
    school experience any less valuable -- rather, it makes it more valuable.

    Message: 63490
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl's fish
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 03:44:16

         I find that hard to believe (your fish explanation).  Where did you
    hear that?
         Most early Christian symbols were directly copied from pagan symbols.
    Early Christian architecture even includes pagan phallic symbols.  It is
    not unlikely that the fish is derived from a pagan phallic symbol.

         Other Christians:  what do you think the fish represents?
         Where does it come from?

    Message: 63491
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 05:55:36

     I have no argument with your statement, nor with Reagan's anti-Communism
    stand. That, however, has been the position of virtually every American
    leader since WW2, so again I would not credit Reagan solely with initiating
    the statements against Communism, or any totalitarian state for that matter.
    As Americans, we are supposed to espouse democracy as the best form of
    government. Granted, it's not perfect, as some will no doubt hasten to point
    out, but it's still the best there is.
     As to Gorbachev, while he had to take the hard line Communist position at
    the beginning of his reign as boss Commie, you'll have to recognize the fact
    that he has been by far the most progressive and most liberal leader that
    the USSR has had since the inception of the Communist form of government.
    If, indeed, we can point a finger at any individual as the forerunner of
    Communism's demise, it would seem more logical to point it at Gorbachev, who
    has operated from the inside, than at Reagan who has yelled from a world
    away.

    Message: 63492
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean/drugs
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 06:03:37

     You and Zak insist ont perpetrating the erroneous statement that drug use
    is a non violent activity, when all the evidence points to the contrary.
     If you take away all the drug gang wars and violence dealing with territory
    and position, you are still faced with the thousands of violent death each
    year caused by addicts committing crimes for profit so that they can support
    their habit, (something that legalization would not correct), as well as the
    thosands of violent deaths each year caused by overdoses, or by addicts
    doing irrational things while under the influence of drugs, such as leaping
    off buildings thinking they can fly, or just plain killing themselves in the
    midst of a drug induced depression.
     Sorry guys, there is no way that you are going to convince me, or Cliff, or
    the U.S. government, that drug abuse is non-violent. Nor will you convince
    me that there is no connection between drug use and drug abuse, since the
    terms are synonomous. Putting a chemical into one's system that alters the
    mind and removes the rationality of the consciousness is tantamount to
    abusing the user. From the first time to the last.

    Message: 63493
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak/life sentence
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 06:15:43

     You don't see how people sentenced to life will go free aside from escape?
     You're not paying much attention Zak. How often do we see hardened
    criminals sentenced to life imprisonment, only to have a time set for parole
    hearings? Even in your case of life without chance of parole, we give them
    years in the prison library, entering appeal after appeal and plea after
    plea, for retrials, pardons, paroles, better conditions inside, and whatever
    else comes to mind, all at the expense of taxpayer you and me. These
    individuals are non-productive, self-centered people who have drastically
    and permanently altered the lives of many by the action(s) that earned them
    their place in prison. They have deprived people of life, and deprived
    others of freedoms that we all consider rather basic. By what criteria,
    other than bleeding heart, dripping liberalism, do you grant them the
    privelege of continuing life at our outrageous expense for indeterminate
    lengths, without any chance whatsoever of rehabilitation or of ever making
    restitution for their acts?
     Capital punishment is not just a viable means of dealing with these
    individuals, It should be the only means.

    Message: 63494
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 06:17:34

    Concerning your position on personal responsibility for one's actions, I
    agree totally.
     See, we're not at odds on everything!

    Message: 63495
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff/Reagan
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 07:26:30

    Yeah, sure...  The Soviets are broke.  And where is the US?  Broke too...

    Message: 63496
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak on brainwashing
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 09:28:25

    I agree that parents have a powerful force over their children while raising
    them - but personally, I believe that child can come to his own thoughts
    someday and not that of his parents. If they go through life living,
    thinking like their parents taught them - it is their fault, not anyone
    elses. Our society has become one of blaiming everyone else except the right
    one. If we are not brain damaged, insane, savants, or mentally retarded,
    then we have the right to do and act as we wish regardless of our parents.
    In my case, if I had not gone my own way (of thinking) I'd be totally
    prejudiced, a Catholic and think only Texans were humans and everyone else
    idiots! I'd be a raging alcoholic too because I was brought up around that.
    My life and thoughts are nothing like my parents were - thank god!
                              \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63497
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 09:31:46

    Well put Daryl and it is nice that we agree once in awile isn't it?
                                \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63498
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 09:36:37

    Uhhhh -- what can you get now without a permit? I can't think of one thing
    off hand relating to business anyway. \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63499
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 09:41:45

    I agree with you. My 3 grandkids were in a private Christian school for most
    of their grammer school years. Then they were let out in the world at the
    9th grade - public highschool and boy, were they in for an education in
    what real life is. The oldest one has said he was sorry his parents did that
    to him because he was not prepared and it was hard to adjust. In fact, it
    changed him into an agnostic. He was never given a choice before. He found
    out there was other belief's in the world. \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63500
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Drugs & Crime
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 11:00:20

    Shoot them all and soon there will be no drugs or crime.
                         !!! Shoot them all!!!
                             Ralph

    Message: 63501
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul on drugs
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 18:22:15

    I believe the topic of discussion was whether or not drug *dealing* was
    violent, not drug abuse by the user (though we've discussed that before
    also.)  My point was that dealing, in itself, is not a violent activity.  If
    a particular dealer uses violence to keep competition at bay, that's
    something else.

    However, I will maintain my position that drug use is non-violent.  If
    somebody steals to get a fix, that's violent.  But that's separate from the
    use itself -- it's a separate action and does not occur with all drug users.
         People who try to fly on drugs or commit suicide are being stupid, and
    made the mistake of using drugs in uncontrolled circumstances.  The same
    thing can be said for drunk drivers.

         You say there is no difference between use and abuse.  I don't think
    so.  If this is true, then all wine drinkers are drug abusers.  People who
    smoke cigarettes are drug abusers.  People who drink Pepsi are drug abusers.

    Message: 63502
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 18:32:06

         You raise some good points.  I would have to agree that people found
    guilty of multiple murders (especially of a gruesome nature) would probably
    be better off being executed.  Especially if it's completely obvious that
    the person is guilty.

         In lesser cases, though, such as a single murder by a person with a
    limited previous record, capital punishment is not the best method of
    punishment.  This is also true of rape or molestation -- murder may be
    desired emotionally, but punishment should be based on what's most rational.

         I don't see how you can call me a bleeding heart.  My disagreement
    hinged on the possibility of a person being wrongly convicted and then never
    being able to be brought to justice.  My heart bleeds - for innocent people.

         If our courts are jammed with criminals who ceaselessly try to appeal
    their cases, we should refine the system so that they have to establish new
    evidence before they can get into court.

         I would be interested in hearing what other people think of the capitol
    punishment debate.  Dean?  Beau?  Daryl?  Ann?

         By the way, have you ever seen Twelve Angry Men?  They showed it to us
    when I was in 6th grade.  It gives an example of how somebody can seem to be
    guilty while really innocent.

    Message: 63503
    Author: Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James Hawley
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 18:53:04

    I'd like to hear about Mardi Gras, if you attend.

    Message: 63504
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 19:08:56

    If you only shoot your own loads that means you don't buy anything....??
    I don't understand. The .223 ammo I'm was speaking of is factory ammo.
    You give the impression you don't want factory ammo.
    If you dont want factory ammo, explain the difference between buying
    brass,slugs and powder (all manufactured by a FACTORY) and putting
    the separate pieces together (aside from grainage)...and buying a
    premade factory round...???
    Hmm..sounds somewhat elitist to me.. kinda like them there health food
    weenies...
    Since I don't study the art of killing as intensely as that, I'd like
    to hear some reasons why someone would not want factory ammo. Maybe
    there's a secret conspiracy I don't know about.

            -Mike

    Message: 63505
    Author: Mike Carter
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Precision Machinist
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 19:15:46

    The City of Phoenix is currently seeking someone with a licensed and
    able shop to manufacture small runs of unique parts.
    These parts are medium small (ranging from matchbox size to book size)
    and fairly simplistic in design and function.
    If you are interested in a money making opportunity, please leave mail
    or call:
            Mike Carter
            Revenue Control
            602-273-3437
            2pm - 10pm Mon-Fri
            Leave a message any other time.

    These parts are needed soon and technical assistance is available
    in production.

    Message: 63506
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Paul/Reagan
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 19:49:59

      I agree that Gorbachev's actions were important and seem to have required
    amazing courage. I think he would still be running the evil empire as usual
    if it hadn't ran out of gas though. Part of that running out of gas was due
    to Reagan's daring to reverse the apologism and accomadation of the previous
    administration. If the Soviets could have gotten enough support from us to
    save themselves, without reforming their system, they would have done it.
    The Carter Administration would probably have given them a blank check.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 63507
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 19:54:41

      I pretty much agree with your post on capital punishment. (you asked)
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 63508
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Paul/Drugs
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 20:09:43

      You can't call something a violent act just because it may or not involve
    a person who might commit an actual violent act. Selling a substance to
    someone who wants it is not a violent act. Ingesting a substance is not a
    violent act. Stealing to buy drugs does not make drug use a violent act any
    more than stealing to pay utility bills makes the use of electricity a
    violent act. If electricity were legal, it would be cheap enough that few
    people would steal to get it. Drugs which actually killed people, as the
    media would have you believe is much more common than it really is, would
    not be sold under legalization. Nobody could afford that kind of liabiliy.
    They would make them safer. Drugs which could not be made safe would not be
    legally sold for long, and users would choose the safer alternatives.
      The evidence which you claim proves the violence of drug use is largely
    false. Drug use is a very minor cause of death, and even that amount would
    greatly decrease under legalization. Legalization would allow people to make
    their own choices, and the evidence does show that this country's government
    is not ready for that.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 63509
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak/Fish
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 22:29:01

    I will get some backup reference material for you.

    Message: 63510
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Christian School
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 22:32:20

    Arizona Lutheran Academy (our synod's Lutheran high school) has one of the
    state's highest student-to-honor roll ratios.

    Message: 63511
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: War!
    Subject: Suicide
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 22:57:12

    If someone bases their life, on that of another, then that is the price they
    pay for dependence. It is a consequence of their own actions, not the
    actions of the person committing suicide.

    Message: 63512
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Euthanasia
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 22:59:03

    To keep animals from being lonely, of course. And since it isn't likely to
    cause guilt, loneliness, depression, etc, it is ok, morally, and legally,
    right Daryl?

    Message: 63513
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Adkins
    Date: 02/20/90  Time: 23:30:19

    Mardi Gras?  I have been to New Orleans, but that's about it.  Why?

    Message: 63514
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike Carter
    Date: 02/21/90  Time: 00:43:15

            We practice on ammo that has a set grain bullet and a set powder
    load that we have choosen.   I do not think factory ammo is bad, but... why
    should I pay your price for ammo when I can load it much cheaper for myself
    and be a round we prefer.  And...if you have that darn millitary brass that
    was crimped, you need a special reamer to fix it for new primers.  Just not
    worth the time...  we throw that brass in the brass scrap barrel.

            Second, we needed MONEY in the gun fund...  we can't buy the trimmer
    we need with 223 rounds.  We already have plenty of brass, powder, and
    projectiles, and that is the only reason we were taking in new customers.
    As it is, we only service a few regulars, and do not want to many new ones.
    Our goal is to fund just enough to help our shooting fund.  We are only
    going to sell to people we know!  This is not a business!

            Okay, it was a mistake to mention we would take other loadable brass
    in exchange for loaded rounds.  I will now only take 9mm loadable brass when
    one wants 9mm loads.  45acp brass for 45acp loads.... etc.   Sorry for the
    confusion.

            P.S.  Could not call you Mike...  at the beginning of the year we
    deleted all expired $tatus user data to clear space.   And silly me tossed
    the printout of phone numbers....

    Message: 63515
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hans Glans
    Date: 02/21/90  Time: 05:54:37

    Obviously, you have never been a parent. When and if you grow up, I can
    almost guarantee that your views will change.

    Message: 63516
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak
    Date: 02/21/90  Time: 08:39:53

    Re: the capital punishment debate: ... I do not believe in capital
    punishment simply because I don't believe anyone has the right to take
    another's life be they the people or the government. To me it's murder and
    they become as bad as the murderer. But I whole hardily believe in life in
    prison without parole for first degree murder! PERIOD!!! I also believe
    everyone has the right to an appeal if they choose, but no more! And it
    should be done within a reasonable length of time - no long drawn out
    waiting periods. IF we are going to have capital punishment, then lets get
    it over with right after the second trial. The injection method is the best
    if there can be 'a best' way to kill someone. However, that is so
    distasteful to me, it makes me feel ill. \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63517
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 02/21/90  Time: 08:42:49

    The school my grandkids went to had high honors too - the students and the
    school - but that doesn't mean they were prepared to go out into the real
    world. Life is more than a good education! \\* ANN *//

    Message: 63518
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: For sale
    Subject: 9mm
    Date: 02/21/90  Time: 10:32:13

            Okay....  There is no longer an excess of 9mm rounds.  Infact, there
    are only a few hundred rounds left...

            This means today I get to pick up the trimmer tool for the 223 brass
    I want to reload!!!!  A trimmer cuts rifle brass to the correct length so
    when it chambers, it does not pinch the projectile causing humungous
    pressures and possibly bursting the barrel.  When firing this long necked
    down rifle brass, there is some stretching... hence they need to be sized
    (trimed).  223 brass has a life of about 6 to 8 times of being fired, and
    yes, there is a tell tale buldge when you have hit that point.

            Thanks for supporting my right to carry arms.... (and shoot them
    too)

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63519
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff's sales
    Date: 02/21/90  Time: 21:10:56

         How much does a single bullet cost?

    Message: 63520
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Zak on 'A' bullet
    Date: 02/21/90  Time: 21:29:27

            In lots of 50 only....
            Besides, you did not specify the caliber or SWC, WC, FMJ, or ????

            I did get the trimmer all set up today and production has begun!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* and bullet maker!
                                            Better than candlesticks.....

    Message: 63521
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jan Brewer Jam
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 00:43:52

    Did anyone attend? Did anyone tape it? Is an audio recording available? I
    must hear this one.

    Message: 63523
    Author: Ralph Moffin
    Category: In search of
    Subject: thought
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 02:37:03

      Guns, guns, guns!!!! Capital punishment vs. lower-case punishment!!!! Make
    drugs legal make war illegal!!!! Send kids to school so they can learn from
    traned professionals!!!! (Arizona Lutheran Acadmeny has the highest honor
    rolls ration? Must have easy classes!) Does the fish stand for Jesus, or
    does it stand for what Jesus did on his spare time?! Why do people have
    bumper stickers that say "Jesus is my best friend". My best friends name is
    Vince but I dont have a bumbper sticker that says "my best friend is Vince".
    And I wouldnt want my best friends name plasterd next to where my exhaust
    comes out, how humiliating!!!! Why dopeople need to tell the world who there
    best friend is!!!!!

      What are you all getting at. Your not going to change each others mind's.
    You can fight about killing or not killing criminals all you want but you
    wont change --> not even in the face of reason. People don't change. If
    facts fly in their face, they just turn away. If slapped accross the face
    with reason, they just pretend it doesnt hurt until their fooled even
    themselfs. We ct  change the world. Even if we all sent letters to the
    goverment they gov. wouldnt change. They dont care what a handful of us
    think. Even if you all finally agreed about something and all was peachy the
    world would still spin all wobbly like a top. Thats just the way it is. Some
    things will never change. Thats just the way it is. Oh....forget it.

    I will be $eeking $tatus soon.
    <<>> P.s. who is Rod?

    Message: 63524
    Author: Ralph Moffin
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: the sysop
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 02:44:58

      Last time I was on here i wrote that  story from the paper. I was listing
    users and then I was typing the sysop's name and then all of the sudden...

    Apollo SYSOP...<<>>...Apollo
    SYSOP...<<>>

    APOLLO SYSOP wants to chat...

    "Do not use my name, I dont want you using my name" says the APOLLO SYSOP.
    OK so I dont use his name. Fine.

       I have serius questions about a BBS with a sysop who sits there and
    moniters each message as its typed and if something offends him he starts
    controlling the user. What kind of free speech is that. Thats censorship.
    And all because I used a name. Whats wrong with using a name.

       I do not understand this behavior and I very much hope it is not an
    indicater of the sysops regular behavior. If I cant say what I please here
    (without fowl language is ok) then I want no part of this.

    <<>

    <<>>

    Message: 63525
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Private schools
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 04:06:23

            A large part of a child's performance in school is determined by his
    home environment.  I think it's pretty obvious that someone who goes to all
    the trouble of sending a kid to a private school is going to be concerned
    about his education, and encourages and helps him at home.
            Contrast this to the large number of parents that view public school
    as a free babysitting service.  (Just ask a teacher how many parents don't
    show up at the parent/teacher conferences.)

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 63526
    Author: $ Alan Hamilton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Brainwashing
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 04:08:37

            Hmmm, I don't know.  As an example, my parents are very bigoted, but
    it sure didn't rub off on me.  Maybe it just served as a negative example.
    It also doesn't hurt that I THINK about what I believe, rather than just
    blindly do as I'm told.

         /
     /  *  /  Alan
    *     *

    Message: 63527
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ralph Muffin
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 05:24:42

     What are we all doing? What are we all getting at?
    Ralph, if you don't understand that what we are doing is communicating
    thoughts, and discussing issues, mostly without rancor or personal
    animosity, then why, pray tell, do you seek $tatus?
     All this, dear boy, is what BBSing is all about. If it irritates you so
    much, perhaps you would be happier using your computer to write leter to the
    editor, or doing your homework.
     As for your obvious misunderstanding concerning the friendship of Jesus
    Christ, those of us who love and try to follow him are commissioned not to
    keep Him the secret of the ages. He has told us to go out into all the world
    and give everybody the good news. What you do with it is, of course, up to
    you. The fact that we are doing what we were told, however, should not
    offend you, since we are not really trying to force Him on you, merely tell
    you about Him. The simple fact is that He died so that you may live. If that
    doesn't interest you, fine. If it does, just ask, and I or quite a few
    others here will be glad to share what we have with you.
    Have a wonderful day.

    Message: 63528
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Zakey Baby
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 06:17:28

    A single bullet? Whadda ya looking for  - a silver bullet? Remember the
    movie 'Silver Bullet by Stephen King? You know something we don't fellow?
    Ha ha. -=*) ANN *(=-

    Message: 63529
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ralph Moffin or ...
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 06:24:31

    .. who ever you are. Cliff does not sit down and monitor each message as
    it's typed and if it offends him he starts controling the user. This is by
    far the most 'free speech' board around. Cliff has his opinions and states
    them as well as we do. What do you want - you can say what you want the the
    Sysop can't? Hey - I wouldn't want you using my name either. Why don't you
    just settle down and enjoy things around here? -=*) ANN *(=-

    Message: 63530
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: The Repulsive
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 06:39:41

    The Repulsive is at it again with an elaborated article that is so
    contradictory I chuckled while reading it. This mornings headlines read ..
    ... "Fatal 'strep' is feared, officials urge no panic"! Now that alone is a
    controdictory statement if I ever saw it! Some of the article stated such
    words as .... "Unfortunately, the public is being led into a panic. They're
    thinking 'Strep throat, I know about that. Now I'm going to die"! ....
    .... It went on to tell of the gory details of some Mesa woman being
    admitted into the hospital with flu like symptom and died within 24 hours!
    Evidently, this infection really fights antibiotics and you can die real
    fast before they start to take effect. Another comforting statement er?
    They finally did state that it is very rare - only about 3 to 7 people are
    likely to get it out of 100,000 people. Also ... "The message for the public
    is go on about your life. If you've got a sore throat  or an infected wound,
    see your doctor like you normally would"! Hmmmm - it's funny, but I wasn't
    worried in the least until I read this article!! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 63532
    Author: $ James Hawley
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 10:23:10

    I don't think it's Rod.  Zak, MAYBE....

    Message: 63534
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 11:53:10

    It's messages like the previous from Cliff that make it difficult for me to
    think of this as an open (uncensored) BBS.

    Message: 63535
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa Dee
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 12:19:04

    Melissa, If you still have that Bible, you'd better burn it.  You wouldn't
    want to accidentally read it and run the risk of learning something.

                                                       ****  Gary   ****

    Message: 63536
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dee
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 12:42:24

            If you really believe your post # 63534, that is your right!

    But:
            Give me a break....  You can talk about anything you want.  Because
    I want my name left out of things I don't like (like Christian slamming)
    does not mean you can't talk about it.   In short...you are telling me I
    don't have any rights to my likes and dislikes?
            And everyone knows who I am on this board.   I do not hide under a
    bunch of different names to slam people.

            Think about it!

    Cliff

    P.S.  I also do not claim to be PERFECT, and I do make mistakes!

    Message: 63537
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James and Cliff
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 14:54:56

    What did the zapped message 63531 say, anyway?

    Message: 63538
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Last / Zak
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 15:34:07

            I was saying I thought Moffin was Rod Williams...  James said it was
    more likely to be Zak Woodruff...  I withdrew my post since I was probably
    wrong in my assumption.

            Maybe as some suggest, I should keep my thoughts and opinions to
    myself.....

            As a wise man once said, "You're always where you are at" and that
    has NOTHING to do with this post.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 63539
    Author: $ Zak Woodruff
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 17:42:24

         "You're always where you are at"?

    Is that like Buckaroo Banzai's "No matter where you go, there you are"?

    Message: 63540
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Gary and Cliff
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 18:51:12

    Gary - I am trading the bible for a Prince tape.  I am not wanting to burn
    the Bible becaue I am athiest; I got it as a "gift" from someone who is a
    well, jerk for lack of a better word.
    Which reminds me!
    Cliff, I was just responding to Ann's idea that this is a very open board.
    I think there are others that are more open but I have no problems with
    your restrictions.

    Oh, P.S.  - I have read the Bible and I did learn something.

    Message: 63541
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dee on Jerk..
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 19:21:04

            Well, maybe I am... Like I said, I will try and keep my opinions to
    myself a bit more.

            I don't know how we could be more open...  there is a SIG here for
    every conceivable taste.   Have you tested these 'OTHER' boards as long as
    you have tested Apollo?  Since we are by far the oldest board around...
    I doubt it!   But then again, I ain't always right either!

            Okay...I will SHUT up!

    Message: 63542
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff/last
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 19:34:47

    I thought that Dee was saying that the person from whom she received the
    Bible was a jerk.  Been doing a little proselytizing behind Sandy's back?

    Message: 63543
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ralph Moffin
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 20:11:36

    Why are you seeking $tatus? You've convinced us all. It's all pointless.
    I mean, all this discussion. We're not going to log on anymore. Have phun.

    Message: 63544
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 02/22/90  Time: 20:45:36

      Daryl is right. This Ralph Moffin has already taught us a valuable lesson
    about ourselves. I can hardly wait to find out what he can do for us once he
    has status. Maybe we will find out that living in general was as pointless
    as talking to each other electronically.
       See You Later
          Dean H.