### Apollo BBS Archive - August 31, 1990

    Mail from John Cummings
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 22:37:23

            Rod, it is becoming intensely interesting to read your thoughts and
    compare them with my own. I don't think we are all brothers and I think the
    world will be a ball of bah-trach if we ever get that as a universal
    feeling..
            You're right--different sects of religion have been fighting and
    condemning each other for centuries; but I don't think that is too bad, it
    is simply the way men are.  If everyone agreed, we'd be robots, and I'd
    suspect we'd have lost our Free Will (which I consider to be one og God's
    gifts, remember?)
            I think if we spend time and energy getting to know one another
    WITHOUT religious philosophies, we'll wind up either bored to death or in a
    "to the death" war. It is the religious philosophies which help to propel us
    forward to a more "brotherly" relationship.
            The Aztecs were a very "religious" people.  In war, they tried not
    to kill the enemy--they wanted to capture him. Because when they got him
    back to Mexico City, they had a religious ceremony. They laid him on an
    altar and cut his still beating heart out with a fairly sharp knife, and
    offered it up to their "gods."
            This doesn't demean or put down religion as a whole, I just mention
    it to point out how some religions work. (The Aztecs were scandalized at the
    "heathen" practices of the Spaniards.
            I am still a religious person, a Christian. The fault is in the
    fallen man, not in the Creator!     --John C.--

    Mail to John Cummings
    Date: 08/31/90  Time: 02:14:00

    In true kindness all I can say about your post to me is that it comes from a
    very confused mind.

    I am not trying to demean you but just am pointing out that what you are
    basically saying sounds like religious doctrine that was taught you by
    another.

    Your're saying in effect that war is peace et al.

    If there is a creator that would let ANY of its creation suffer including
    little children then all I can say is that this person is a demon-monster.

    It seems that people of religion want their particular lord to run their
    lives and consequently nothing ever gets done.  It will have to be people
    working with people who have a plan and a goal before anything will get
    done.

    In this I feel sorry for the weak minded, gullible people who swallow the
    hogwash that religion dictates.  I also have a certain amount of despise for
    them too as they to me appear like helpless jellyfish in my eyes.

    But I know deep down that just because a person is lost does not mean they
    are lost for the remainder of their lives.  I know because I saw the logic
    and removed myself from that crutch and now I am on a path that is real.  -R

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 1450
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: dean/trivia
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 22:10:07

    Yes, that's what it all comes down to. We are entirely too serious about
    everything. It roils us and shortens our lives.

    Message: 1451
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Expired Soul
    Subject: Shorten a life
    Date: 08/31/90  Time: 02:18:33

    It is not the length that a person lives that is important but it is the
    quality of life that one finds while alive that is important.

    I would rather be free for five minutes than spend a 20 years in captivity.
    Physical death is nothing to be afraid of.  But suffering for a long time
    may be.

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 69078
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 21:59:48

      All I heard was that a spokesman for Bush said the idea was sick
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 69079
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Jeff B./Last
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 22:00:41

       Your attitude towards advertising is very paternalistic I think. People
    must be protected from those who would give them the impression that one
    brand is better than another, you say. If falsehood is involved, yes. If
    people want Bayer aspirin because they have faith in the size and longevity
    of the company and are willing to pay more for it, then that familiarity
    is a characteristic of the product they are choosing to buy. The same can
    be said for basketball shoes pitched as being the pinnacle of style by
    one's favorite MTV star. If that image is something the buyer wants badly
    enough to pay for it, then they are not being cheated. The voluntary
    buying tastes of people who have been exposed to advertising is not an
    argument for government intervention unless that advertising is using
    deliberate falsehoods.
       The concentration of industrial power under a mixed economy can not be
    attributed to those practicing the strictly economic means of earning
    wealth, it is more often a result of exerting the political means which
    would not exist in a free market economy. Take a closer look at that small
    group of czars, and you will see the power of government in the pocket of
    nearly every one.
       You didn't say what your views on oil prices were.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 69080
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff B.
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 22:02:48

      I finished reading The Jungle. Thanks, it was interesting. I read the part
    where Jurgis goes to Master Freddie Jones' house to my kids to put them to
    sleep, but they liked it too well and the plan failed. I can return the book
    now, are you busy tomorrow night? Give me a call if you have a chance.
       See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 69081
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hussein
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 22:06:01

    If you are referring to Bush's refusal to treat the criminal hostage
    taker as an equal, then I am entirely in agreement with Bush. It is
    like a crazed hostage taker asking to go on TV with Bill Close.

    Message: 69082
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: johnson/lies
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 22:08:39

    I knew that Johnson was lying, but what could I do about it. The FACT
    is that Hussein invaded and occupies another nation, Kuwait. The FACT is
    that Hussein holds hostages against their will. There is no mysterious
    attack in the Gulf of Tonkin. It's all out there for us to see and
    watch on TV.

    Message: 69083
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: News Today
    Subject: Shooting at the UofA
    Date: 08/30/90  Time: 22:56:07

    Cpl. Barleycorn was shot and killed 25 Aug. 90.  He was an U of A police
    officer.  He and 3 other officers responded to a fight at a fraternity
    party.  When the reach the fraternity they heard that a man had a gun.  The
    female officer called for back up.   The details of the shooting are still
    not completely known.  Two ooficers confronted the lone man with the .38
    handgun.  Apparently he fired at least one shot at one officer.  That
    officer returned fire and hit the youth in the arm, the bullet then hit Cpl.
    Barleycorn in the side of his body.  The bullet missed the body armour and
    killed Cpl. Barleycorn.  The youth and friends fled but were apprehended
    later that night.  This was the first time an U of A officer has been killed
    in the line of duty.  The funeral was yesterday, Wed. 29 Aug. 90.
     " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls

    Message: 69084
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/"new" subject
    Date: 08/31/90  Time: 00:20:06

    "An object with mass has a center of gravity." Whatever you say.  Now, are
    we talking about physical entities anymore, or are we talking about
    imaginary entities which are convenient symbols for our analytical
    schematics, or are you still confusing the two? "consider the path the point
    that the center of gravity makes in x,y,z,t (real space-time)." Point,
    Roger?  Oh.  Obviously, you are still talking about mathematical models. "At
    some point X,Y,Z,T on that path, is the velocity vector tangent to the curve
    at X,Y,Z,T ?" In our mathematical schematic, in which we model real motion
    with velocity vectors at geometric points, we might find a velocity vector
    tangent to the curve at a point.  In the case of a circular function, that
    is only one of the velocity vectors.  We would find another velocity vector
    pointing radially inward at that point. Of course, we might just as easily
    create a model wherein at every point of the circle, we find no inward
     velocity vector, but instead two force vectors acting on the object, one
    from a radially inward direction, and the other opposing it from a radially
    outward direction, equal in magnitude, and our result would be just the
    same only perhaps not as useful (or perhaps more useful in certain
    calculations).

    Message: 69085
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dean
    Date: 08/31/90  Time: 00:24:08

    I'll read your messages offline and get back to you.

    Message: 69086
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger/Hostages
    Date: 08/31/90  Time: 02:29:09

    Which is worse, delaying people's departure from Kuwait or using a blockade
    to starve out the so-called guilty as well as the innocent?

    If I were a kid about five who lived there I'd be concerned where my next
    meal was coming from.

    Boy:  How come we have no food?

    Father:  The U.S. is blockading our nation.

    I'm going to type an article from page 1087, Chronicle of the World, and the
    year was 1926, 8, January.

    All the sheikhs, merchant princes and imams of the Hejaz gathered in the
    Grand Mosque today to witness a ceremony honoring Abdul Aziz ibn Saud as
    king of the Hejaz - which he proposes to rename Saudi Arabia.

    Having set out from exile in Kuwait 24 years ago to capture his home city of
    Riyadh, ibn Saud reached the pinnacle of power last month when he arrived in
    Jeddah in triumph to accept the city's surrender.  His traditional enemy,
    Hussein, the sheik of Mecca, had already abdicated, and was followed into
    exile by his son Ali.

    Why won't Bush debate?  Is there something that he is not telling the
    American People?  Bush and Hussein could be on a special 2 hour Nightline or
    news broadcast.  Hussein could be in a studio in Iraq and Bush in the
    White House.  A portion of thier show could be for live call in and
    questions could be asked and answered that may clear up some confusion on my
    part.

    I really do not understand why a President would forgo this 'golden
    opportunity' to make his adversary look like the pig he is, if in fact he is
    a pig.

    Many things would be answered by such a debate.  I disagree that the debate
    is a bad idea.
                                            Rod