### Apollo BBS Archive - August 4, 1990

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 68242
    Author: Mike Lauson
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: steriods and sex
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 19:50:10

    problem...Steriods makes a mans stuff shrink. I need to know if this is
    reversible....can anyone help?

    Message: 68243
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mad Max/Telix
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 21:03:51

            Mad Max, you're my hero! I printed out your last msg--didn't need to
    try to memorize it--the Tandy does Shift/Print and makes a copy of that
    screen--so I'll be able to read it at leisure and try that trick. Thanks
    again, a bunch!       --John C.--

    Message: 68244
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/Childraising
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 21:07:41

            Well said. The responsibility of the parent is to prepare the child
    for the world, and frankly, a lot of what the world has to offer is much
    scarier then Hell. I think a good argument could be made, logically, that
    the atheist parent, even, has the responsibility to teach about God,
    Justice, Mercy, Love, Obligation, Responsibility, and Hell.

    Message: 68245
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff B/automation
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 21:14:03

            Thanks, I saved yours, too. With all this help, I'm gonna get it
    done! Are you listening, Sandi? No, that should be, are you reading, Sandi?
    Now we got it!     --John C.--

    Message: 68246
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: last
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 21:21:10

            I knew about Preparation H, but I didn't know steroids do that, too.
    Maybe somebody else can help. As far as sex and love, I've been told that
    practice is what does it--use it or lose it, as they used to say in the
    locker room--right, Ann?

    Message: 68247
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hell
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 21:31:23

            Let's have a liitle calm reason here, okay? Christian theology says
    that Hell is the absence of God in the afterlife. (If you don't believe in
    the afterlife, this will be tough to follow.)
            God does not send a person to Hell, according to Christian
    theology--at the so-called Last Judgement, the person can choose God or
    reject Him.  If the person rejects God, that person then spends the rest of
    eternity without God.
            The hell-fire, brimstone, devil with pitchfork, burning Hell is a
    development over time. I think probably every parent has at one time or
    another said something to a kid like, "don't play on the freeway or an
    eighteen wheeler will come along and squash you flat as a bug's shadow!"
            This should not traumatize a kid; but it might keep him off the
    freeway. All of my kids reached maturity even though they are near a
    freeway.
            The same with the concept of Hell--it is difficult to describe to a
    child the pain of being without God, but easy to remind the kid of the
    blister he got from the match. But it would take a long effort with no love,
    no parental guidance, to make a child paranoid about Hell, if the kid is
    taught that God is Love, and that God wants us to be with Him.
            Boy, that's a long dissertation. Did you read it all, Rod? --John

    Message: 68248
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hell
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 21:32:25

            Anyone who knows the Last Judgement knows I took a short cut there,
    but the basic theology is correct--I'm out of time.   --JOhn C--

    Message: 68249
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: On the Lighter Side
    Subject: Prove this
    Date: 08/03/90  Time: 23:08:44

    Prove Love exists.

    Use standard scientific methods.

    Message: 68250
    Author: Michael Kielsky
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: About the GT...
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:07:33

    It was fun, as they always are... but with a lot more people!

    Michael "I'm the NRA" Kielsky

    P.S.  That's all everyone remembered me by, the "I'm the NRA" stuff?!?  Oh
    well, someone must carry the burden.  Let's have another shoot-out GT, soon!

    Message: 68251
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:17:49

    Re:  "I can't believe NO one is responding to this."

    Believe it!

    Message: 68252
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:18:18

    Re:  "I don't see where breast-feeding is more inconvenient than
    bottle-feeding."

    There are many benefits to breast feeding, not to mention that's the way God
    intended it to be.

    For instance, many times I have heard about mothers who hear the baby crying
    in the middle of the night and wake up father and say, "It's your turn
    dear!"  That just doesn't happen with breast feeding!

    Message: 68253
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:18:49

    Re:  "The pain was so unbearable, he cried out "Eloi, Eloi, lama
    sabacthani?" ('My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?') Some people look
    at Christ crucified, and think, "well, it is certainly a nasty way to die,
    but I can think of more painful ways." The truth is that one cannot. Dying
    in a state of seperation from God is the most painful way to die. Christ
    willingly suffered it for us just so we wouldn't have to."

    Christ never uttered a word of complaint as the Roman guards beat his face
    beyond recognition, pulled out his beard, and pushed the crown of thorns
    into his head.  He never cried out as they shredded his back with a whip
    similar to the "cat of 9 tails".  Not a word as they drove the nails through
    his hands and feet.  All the physical pain was endured without complaint.
    It was only when the sins of the world were poured out upon him and God
    temporarily separated himself from Christ that Jesus cried out (the Greek
    word means screamed out).  The intensity of that pain can only be guessed
    at.

    Message: 68254
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:19:31

    Re:  "However I do claim that I do not know what transpires at that, or
    after that, event."

    Huh?  You don't know?  You don't know what happens after death?  Since you
    don't know, how can you be so absolutely positive there is no God?  To know
    for a fact that God doesn't exist, you would have to know everything.  Even
    if you knew 50% of all knowledge, you wouldn't know that God doesn't exist,
    because he might just exist in the 50% you know nothing about.  And what
    percent of everything do you think men know about?  I think men know less
    than 1% of all possible knowledge that exists.

    Message: 68255
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:20:05

    Re:  "I think that comment was a bit unfair to him. He is simply stating his
    opinions and you come back with Bible quotes about Saul."

    Your idea of "fairness" is interesting.  Rod habitually calls Christians
    everything but nice.  According to Rod, Christians are stupid, evil,
    brainless, etc.  They should be locked up in jail for teaching their
    children about God.  I guess you think this is fair enough.  But when Daryl
    quotes a Bible verse to Rod, you point out that it is unfair?

    Message: 68256
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Joke
    Subject: Ejamakasion
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:22:32

    Teacher:  Use the word "I" in a sentence.

    Student:  I is--

    Teacher:  No, no, always say "I am".

    Student:  OK, I am the 9th letter of the alphabet.

    Message: 68257
    Author: $ Pat Stoddard
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: About the GT....
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 00:39:26

    I know this may be a bit late, but I will put my 2 cents in about it.  I am
    glad I forced myself to go, even if I didn't say all that much there.  I
    lost the use of my computer's internal modem sometime last weekend, and it
    took me the past week to get this modem I am using for the time being.

    I may post a few jokes on the COSmos (for Ann - on request), if I can get on
    here more often.  So many new message sat every log-on.  Either that, or I
    will have to keep my computer on the phone line and off the radio BBS
    systems, so I can try to get on here.

    -Pat

    Message: 68258
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/book
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 02:03:49

    No, what's the title?

    First I read The ABC of Relativity by Bertrand Russell.  There was plenty I
    didn't understand, part of the problem being that this was my first exposure
    to the subject, part being his explanations, and part being my lack of
    background in ordinary pre-relativity physics.  I am addressing the first
    two problems by reading a book by Hermann Bondi (one of the three
    originators of the Steady State theory) called Relativity and Common Sense;
    the third problem I am addressing by reading Asimov's The History of
    Physics, which should also, incidentally, help with the other problems when
    I get to the section on relativity.  But I'm certainly willing to examine
    another phrasing, especially from the creator of the theory.

    Message: 68259
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: mechanics
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 02:32:28

    Well, I know this is going to sound stupid, but here it is anyway:

    If you have an inclined plane and let something roll down it from a standing
    start, it will roll with a constant acceleration.  The acceleration,
    obviously, will grow as the slope of the board grows, reaching a maximum as
    the slope reaches a maximum of one.  That is, when the board is standing
    straight up the situation is equivalent to free fall.  The acceleration of
    free fall (barring air resistance) is the gravitational constant, 32
    ft./sec^2.
    But you might want to know what the acceleration is for a given angle of the
    board.  This works out to g*sin(theta).  (Theta is the angle of the board;
    it doesn't matter if you use degrees, radians, whatever).  If, on the other
    hand, you want to know what angle to use to get a given acceleration, this
    works out to arcsin (a/g), where a is the acceleration.  Oh, by the way, g
    is the gravitational constant.
    If you want to know what the instantaneous velocity will be at a point in
    time, multiply the acceleration by the number of seconds.  If you want the
    average velocity during that time, divide by two.  If you want to know how
    far the ball will travel in a given amount of time at a particular
    acceleration, the formula is (at^2)/2.  That's the average velocity
    multiplied by the time.
    *
    Well, it MIGHT come in handy for a Rube Goldberg gizmo.
    In reality, posting this helps me in the learning process.

    Message: 68260
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: LEM
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 03:26:23

    ""Have it compose a poem -- a poem about a haircut!  But lofty, noble,
    tragic, timeless, full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the
    face of certain doom!  Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning
    with the letter s!"
    "And why not throw in a full exposition of the general theory of nonlinear
    automata while you're at it?" growled Trurl.  "You can't give it such
    idiotic --"
    But he didn't finish.  A melodious voice filled the hall with the following:

    Seduced, shaggy Sampson snored.
    She scissored short.  Sorely shorn,
    Soon shackled slave, Sampson sighed,
    Silently scheming,
    Sightlessly seeking
    Some savage, spectacular suicide.

    "Well, what do you say to that?" asked Trurl, his arms folded proudly.  But
    Klapaucius was already shouting:
    "Now all in g!  A sonnet, trochaic hexameter, about an old cyclotron who
    kept sixteen artificial mistresses, blue and radioactive, had four wings,
    three purple pavilions, two laquered chests, each containing exactly one
    thousand medallions bearing the likeness of Czar Murdicog the Headless..."

    "Grinding gleeful gears, Gerontogyron grabbed / Giggling gynecobalt-60
    golems," began the machine, but Trurl leaped to the consol, shut off the
    power and turned, defending the machine with his body.
    "Enough!" he said, hoarse with indignation.  "How dare you waste a great
    talent on such drivel.  Either give it decent poems to write or I call the
    whole thing off!"
    "What, those aren't decent poems?" protested Klapaucius.
    "Certainly not!  I didn't build a machine to solve rediculous crossword
    puzzles!  That's hack work, not Great Art!  Just give it a topic, any topic,
    as difficult as you like..."
    Klapaucius thought, and thought some more.  Finally he nodded and said:
    "Very well.  Let's have a love poem, lyrical, pastoral, and expressed in the
    language of pure mathematics.  Tensor algebra mainly, with a little topology
    and higher calculus, if need be.  But with feeling, you understand, and in
    the cybernetic spirit."
    "Love and tensor algebra?  Have you taken leave of your senses?"  Trurl
    began, but stopped, for his electronic bard was already declaiming:

    Come, let us hasten to a higher plane,
    Where dyads tread the fairy fields of Venn
    Their indices bedecked from one to n,
    Commingled in an endless Markov chain!

    Come, every frustrum longs to be a cone,
    And every vector dreams of matrices.
    Hark to the gentle gradient of the breeze:
    It whispers of a more ergodic zone.

    In Riemann, Hilbert, or Banach space
    Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways.
    Our asymptotes no longer out of phase,
    We shall encounter, counting, face to face.

    I'll grant thee random access to my heart,
    Thou'lt tell me all the constants of thy love;
    And so we two shall all love's lemmas prove,
    And in our bound partition never part.

    For what did Cauchy know, or Christoffel,
    Or Fourier, or any Boole or Euler,
    Wielding their compasses, their pens and rulers,
    Of thy supernal sinusoidal spell?

    Cancel me not -- for what then shall remain?
    Abcissas, some mantissas, modules, modes,
    A root or two, a torus and a node:
    The inverse of my verse, a dull domain.

    Ellipse of bliss, converge, O lips divine!
    The product of our scalars is defined!
    Cyberiad draws nigh, and the skew mind
    Cuts capers like a happy haversine.

    I see the eigenvalue in thine eye,
    I hear the tender tensor in thy sigh.
    Bernoulli would have been content to die,
    Had he but known such a^2 cos 2 phi!

    This concluded the poetic competition, since Klapaucius suddenly had to
    leave, saying he would return shortly with more topics for the machine;
    but he never did, afraid that in so doing, he might give Trurl more cause to
    boast.  "

    Message: 68264
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Religion
    Subject: Melissa/hell
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 06:22:18

     Hell is one of those mysteries that cannot really be proven this side of
    the grave, and there have been so many discussions on the subject that have
    succeeded inproving nothing to anybody that to pursue it further is futility
    extended.
     About all anyone can do is express their personal feelings on the matter,
    since no-one has any evidence to present for either side of the argument. My
    personal opinion is that I would rather believe in it and try to live in
    such a way as to avoid it, and later find ot that I was wrong, than not
    believe in it, live in such a way as to invite it, and find out later that I
    should have believed in it.
     If I do believe in it, I can also believe in a loving God who will forgive
    my occassional trespasses, cover my sins with His mercy, and keep me out of
    it. That's not so bad, either.

    Message: 68265
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger/Physics
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 07:59:53

    Join in???  Ha!  I still don't understand why phonograph records
    don't fly apart when spinning.  After all, the outer edge is
    going faster than inner areas, right?

    Message: 68266
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Religion
    Subject: 68264
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 08:59:24

    But Paul, why not live your life the way you want to, not by the
    restrictions of religion? Oh, religion is how you want to live your life?
    Any strict belief system brings narrowmindedness. You plug everything into
    the Christian outlet...You find 10 bucks, God sent it to you. You get a
    promotion at work, praise the Lord.

    s

    Message: 68267
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John C.
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 09:09:00

    I've never been in a locker room. Sigh! But I've always believed that 'if
    you don't use it, you'll lose it'! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68268
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike on Love
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 09:11:20

    I think love could be proven scientifically - doesn't the heart beat faster,
    blood pressure go up slightly, your brain doesn't function properly when in
    love?? These could be measured scientifically. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68269
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on Rod
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 09:22:32

    Yes I will have to admit that at times Rod does come down hard on the
    Christians here - but when he makes a valid point or question(s) they
    respond with Bible sayings or insults themselves. That to me is unfortunate
    because I am interested in what their response might be. To those of us that
    stand in the middle - we read both sides with interest.
    BTW - the insults by both parties are pretty much the same. I've heard
    others call Rod "Stupid, evil and brainless" too.
    If you notice, when Rod is answered with a calm, sane, good point post, he
    doesn't  come back with insults but answers in like. I can see his
    frustrations - no one takes him seriously. He does make good points and I
    for one would like to hear the answers. I know Daryl is capable because he
    has posted some good ones in the past. Just my opinion. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68270
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Me
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 09:25:27

    In case you all won't recognize me the next time you see me - something
    strange happened - my hair turned blond all in the course of a couple of
    hours! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 68271
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: bodily functions
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 11:39:21

    Not to be crude, don't bodily functions such as those have to do more with
    a slightly baser emotion than love?
    Ah, I wouldn't know...love has always escaped me.

    Message: 68272
    Author: $ Sandi Marlin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Arguments
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 11:43:42

    Not discussing an argument in a cool, intellectual manner is an excellent
    way to begin a screaming, raging fight both in person and in proxy...for
    Rod and others who don't believe in the Bible, answering with it is just an
    avoidance of the point he is trying to make(unless he was arguing a
    theological point) and sure to annoy him.

    Message: 68273
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 08/04/90  Time: 16:53:02

    Good point!