### Apollo BBS Archive - June 3, 1990

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    Message: 6558
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Sysop address
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 19:44:49

            If I should want to get into a few different SIGs, how do I do that?
    The program tells me to write to the Sysop. Must I send U.S. Postal service
    mail, or is there an address here on the board I can use to send msg to
    Sysop? Or maybe I just go on as heretofore? ? ?

    Message: 6559
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Writers Cramp
    Subject: Figments
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:27:42

    You don't exist either until I decide to allow my computer to
    call and tell me otherwise. It does a daily reality check on you
    to see if you're still around. After all, the great GOD U.S. WEST could
    pull your realism right out from under you...;-)

    Message: 6560
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: John Cummings
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:57:28

            John, there is a ost office cmd you can use to send any user
    PRIVATE mail, including me (the SYSOP)....  It is also listed in the elp
    files.  SO, give the cmd a try!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 6561
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 10:04:26

       Thanks for imagining such a nice weekend for me.
         See You Later,
           Dean H.

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    Message: 3856
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: last
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:43:47

    No, Harllan....as in Brain-dead Ellison. The Sci-Fi Author.
    "A Boy and his dog" "Dangerous visions" etc etc etc

    Ellisonics;
                    The Study of loud-mouthed micro-organisms.

    If I were to pull a trigger on anybody in my life, heaven forbid I do
    to begin with, first on my list is Dennis DeConcini..next is this
    shit-for-lack-of-brains openly psychopathic bed wetter and grandtsanding
    masturbator. Instead of the full metal jacketed slug however,
    I would doctor the case and make my own custom slug. An alloy between
    silver and lead (pewter) with a large cavity full of mercury.
    Using a 30-06 in this fashion would tend to blow someone's head apart
    much like the effect when a full balloon is introduced to a pin.
    I have a low opinion of it.

    I can imagine and dream and think terrible thoughts, but I am guilty
    of neither till the day they read my mind.

    Message: 3857
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: last
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 12:34:59

    Ellison Wonderland was the name of one of his anthologies.

    Message: 3858
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: last
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 01:12:53

    Isn't that special?

    His very own Wunderland.

    Message: 3859
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: last
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 21:15:02

    No thanks to Lewis Carroll.

    Message: 3860
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: Jokes & Ha Ha's
    Subject: X-Rated
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 22:34:44

    If the stork delivers white babies, and the wren delivers black babies and
    the robin delivers chinese babies, who delivers no babies???\

    The SWALLOW...
     " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls

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    Message: 750
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Review
    Subject: Chaplin
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:14:56

    Wow.  That was the first Chaplin film I had ever seen and I don't know how
    I could have gone through my life, being as interested in movies as I am,
    and not have seen one before.  He really is a master of mime and direction.
    His "Hitler" (Henkyl) was great with the ranting of mock German.  This was
    his first film in which he spoke and he seemed to want to make a real
    political statement.  His speech at the end of the movie was broadcasted
    over the radio as a seperate speech.  Very strong words from a quiet man.

    Message: 751
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean 4/4
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:49:25

    Thanks for the well written review. I figured as much like Ann.
    I will be in line in about 2 weeks; 1 week after the scheduled release
    of TOTAL RECALL. I seem to have total recall of what such a mass
    following and much publicized film will do to a theatre on opening
    day. I sat in line at Cine' Capri about 10 years ago for the 2nd
    installment of the Star Wars trilogy . It took me 4 hours and 900 feet
    to get a seat in the next to last front row.
    I predict that the opening few days will be utter mayhem.
    I have a nice excursion to 4 peaks planned for that Sunday and a
    gun class on Saturday. Schwartznegger can wait.

    Message: 752
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: BackToTheFuture
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 10:10:18

      I finally rented part 2, now that part 3 is out. I liked part 2, but I am
    glad I waited until 3 was available to watch right away because of the way
    they left the time travelers seperately stranded in the past at the end. I
    will probably need to hurry up and see part3 before it leaves the Cine
    Capri.
      See You Later,
          Dean H.

    Message: 753
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean/review
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 18:04:17

    Superb review!  Let's assasinate Bob Fenster.  Mike?

    Message: 754
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Trivia
    Subject: Who is
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 01:13:42

    Bob Fenster anyway?

    Message: 755
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Dean/BCTF
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 05:23:55

     The need of the people to see part 3 immediately, or at least very soon,
    was probably what t producers had in mind when they released part 2 to video
    on the day before part 3 showed up at the theaters. I feel the same way. I
    hate movies that end in the middle!

    Message: 756
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Junk Culture
    Subject: Bob Fenster
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 21:56:14

    ... is the movie reviewer for the Arizona Repugnant.

    Message: 757
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Fire Birds
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 15:55:11

            My boys took me to this movie for my birthday.   I love chopper
    movies and I totaly enjoyed this one.

            Thanks Tyler and Travis!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*    or Papa Cliff

    Message: 758
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Review
    Subject: Bird on a Wire
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 22:28:13

    Worth what I paid to see it (nothing).  To be fair, it did move along fairly
    well, but it seemed to have a hard time choosing between being a light
    romantic comedy and a thriller.  As a result, the filmmakers chose to
    introduce levity (really lame stuff, too) at just the right moments to
    destroy what little tension had been built up.  The soundtrack didn't help
    either.  It was heavy handed and solemn, in a pretentious, melodramatic way.
     I also think that the writers need to pull their head out of the sixties.

    BTW, those were Goldy's pert little haunches.  Yummy.

    Message: 759
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Review
    Subject: The Package
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 17:53:39

    I rented the video.  It was better than I expected.  A good movie with lots
    of action and suspense.  I recommend it.

    Message: 760
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Review
    Subject: Total Recall
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 01:56:25

    On a scale of one to five stars, this film rates -- ten stars.
    This is one of the best, and one of the most original films I have seen in
    my life.  I would, and will, pay to see it again.
    Two suggestions:  Don't drink coffee or other diaretics (sp?) before you go.
     I held a bladder full of piss longer than I ever had before in my life.
    When the movie ended and I got up, I had cramps and my lower stomach stuck
    out an inch and a half.  Nevertheless, it was worth it: there is absolutely
    no part of the film which provides time enough to leave the theatre -- and
    not miss something important.  It is an action film, and of course you'd
    miss the action, but more importantly, you'd miss some important plot clue
    -- it's also a film of ideas -- and how!  Add excellent acting by Arnie
    along with some rather unusual and well-executed special effects, and you've
    got a top-notch film.

    My other suggestion?  Don't read reviews.  Don't listen to reviews from
    friends -- no matter how much they insist that they won't give anything
    away.  You need to see this film with as few preconceptions as possible.
    There are surprises aplenty.

    Message: 761
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Total Recall
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 04:15:43

    I thought the ending sequence was a bit goofy, but otherwise I enjoyed the
    film.

    Message: 762
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Review
    Subject: Look Who's Talking
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 04:50:58

     A somewhat unique and refreshing approach to comedy, it depicts many
    situations as they might appear throgh the eyes (and words) of an infant
    from birth up to about 2 years old. Lots of laughs. Well worth the watching.
     (Thanks for the revies on Total Recall. I'm not an Arnie fan, but will put
    that one high on my list of musts.)

    Message: 763
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Jeff Beck
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 08:38:34

            Thanks for the info on 'Total Recall'....  on your recommendation, I
    am going to see this ASAP.  I generally do NOT see films by Arnie S.

                            clif-

    Message: 764
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Jeff on Total Recall
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 15:17:37

    Nice review. You make me drool to see it. I don't think I will wait until
    it's in the video stores either. All the critics I've read give it the full
    stars - one said it rated along with The Terminator and Aliens (2) - two of
    my favorit movies. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 765
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliffy/last
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 15:22:34

    You mean you have not seen the Ternimator, Preditor, Running man, Twins, Raw
    Deal, Commando, etc. etc.???? Baaaaaaad!!!! I recommend Pumping Iron too.
                              -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 766
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 15:46:41

            I see them when they make it to the video rental stores.  I generaly
    do not waste my money seeing Mr. S. at the first run theaters.  I will say
    his movies have gotten better over the last few years...Twins was nice as a
    rental (worth the 3 bucks for the whole family to see it)

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

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    Message: 1805
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Insomniac & inspired
    Subject: bah!
    Date: 05/22/90  Time: 00:35:21

    My roommate is sitting at my right shoulder, consuming iced tea, with a
    carcinogenic sweetener.  I find it difficult to post messages with him
    looking on.  He says, "I'm glad to hear that.  Now maybe there will be more
    intelligent conversation."  (This is punctuated by a lot of self-satisfied
    chuckling.)

    If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning, I'd hammer in the evening, all
    over the second step of this trailer, a step which is more than slightly
    moribund.

    P.S.  Roger:  what does "compact" mean with reference to a set, or a space?

    Message: 1806
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Zippy
    Date: 05/22/90  Time: 00:39:09

    He's made the Sunday comics.  What's next?  (I understand that there will
    soon be a Zippy motion picture -- no foolin'.)
    Is it just me, or does anyone else feel that Zippy has become largely
    superfluous in the latest strips?  It would seem that Zippy has gone from
    comic genius and master of the surreal non-sequitur, to a straight man,
    setting up lines for Griffy's whiny, self-indulgent social satires.

    Message: 1807
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: What's next
    Date: 05/23/90  Time: 23:26:21

    Loony Tunes are coming back -- 130 new cartoons will be made by Warner Bros.
    for use by AMC as shorts before feature films.

    Message: 1808
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Insomniac & inspired
    Subject: Loons,Tunes & Goons
    Date: 05/24/90  Time: 00:59:22

    Whatever happened to Jonathan Brandmeyer's LOONS ?
    The snowbird song from the 80's et al ?
    As far as the Looney Tunes are concerned, I applaud that...these
    audiences need to be educated.
    ;-0
    If someone has a copy of the Snowbird song...set to the tune of a
    song that escapes me..I remember the tune..not the name...
    Jonny was on KZZP back in '81-82....
    Let me know..I'd very much  like a copy.

    Message: 1809
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Beau/1807
    Date: 05/24/90  Time: 23:14:52

    It will be interesting to see if they meet the caliber of classic WB
    cartoons. Most of the stuff created for television was dreadful, especially
    in animation, secondly in story line.

    Message: 1810
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Mike C/Brandmeier
    Date: 05/24/90  Time: 23:16:04

    I think I have a copy around here somewhere on 45.

    Message: 1811
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Insomniac & inspired
    Subject: yeah well
    Date: 05/25/90  Time: 23:35:08

    but so like HEY
    and he danced backward and backward and back
    to the last grown horse
    that began to fly as it did
    "die!" she yelled as she fell into
    Hell - it's own heat set the beat to the street where they did
    meat that is ground and
    "Pound it in to me" she whispered with breathe that
    begged and pleaded to be scratched with the
    knife of his
    wife, the cook the thief and the
    love that came between their
    legs and runnth over her soft hair that
    she bare ask if he dare to stare
    into those wells that held tales of the
    ankles with shakles and shakes with the clanks
    of the shanks of the ass of the
    balls as they dance to the song of the
    moon that rose full as her 'loon
    with the knowledge that soon
    in this 'toon
    was her doom.

    Message: 1812
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Question?
    Subject: last
    Date: 05/26/90  Time: 00:01:06

    Have you been sleeping with "Heavy D" again?

    Message: 1813
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Just a "let you know
    Date: 05/26/90  Time: 01:29:47

    But this SIG is open to ALL $tatus users who can log on late...
    So do NOT get carried away with too many XXX Rated posts... Okay guys?

    This is just a double XX Rated SIG, not triple XXX

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 1814
    Author: $ Steven Carls
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Brandmeir
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 00:10:42

    Brandmeir got an offer from the LOOP, a Chicago radio station.  The offer
    was in the vacinity of $250,000.  He didn't do as weel as the radio station
    had originally thought.  He has his following and he still writes comical
    songs.
     " The ATARI WILDCAT "  Steven Carls

    Message: 1815
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Question?
    Subject: This SIG
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 03:54:12

    I was under the impression that *anyone* of any age can get into
    this sig as long as they are a $tatus user.
    I would be personally offended by the garbage that Melissa posted
    back a few if I had a younger son or daughter logging on here
    and running across that message.
    I think, much like the PUBLIC board, that this SIG should be kept
    clean and family oriented unless you otherwise post and warn.
    There is no such warning about the ATE night SIG.
    I feel that message should be ZAPPED.
    Its garbage.

    Message: 1816
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Night-Life
    Subject: Brandmeier
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 03:56:56

    Yeah, I remember when he left for Chicago and some months later he
    was featured on somebody's daytime show or something...maybe donahue
    or Geraldo or whoever it was back then.
    I definitely would like to get a copy of the song from you Daryl.
    I was mentioning it to my wife after I posted that message and
    she expressed that it would be nice to have it as well because she
    remembers him too.

    Thanks in advance.

    You have my #..call!
                            -Mike

    Message: 1817
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 23:30:50

    You would let your children be up e at night to read Apollo???

    Message: 1818
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Looney Toons
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 23:32:05

    Well, considering that the main theme of those old cartoons was _violence_,
    I am wondering if they are going to change that for the new ones.  Also,
    will they keep Bugs, Porky, Daffy, et al, or will a new set of characters be
    created for the (non-violent?) new toons?

    Message: 1819
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Beau/Mike/Kids
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 00:05:42

    Oh God.  Let's hope it hasn't reproduced.

    Message: 1820
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Jeff
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 00:07:11

    What is Heavy D?  Is that some new rap group or something?

    Message: 1821
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 01:26:58

    Garsh, I dunno!  Lemme check my Encyclopedia o' hip-hop.

    Message: 1822
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Insomniac & inspired
    Subject: Dee's poem
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 23:09:01

    I want royalties for the use of "the void."  I do have the trademark, you
    know.

    HB

    Message: 1823
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Cliff & X-rating
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 23:12:09

    So what, if ANYTHING, has been X-rated?  I don't think the words "balls" and
    "ass" qualify.  You can hear them in ag & anatomy classes.  Such
    sensitivity.

    HB

    Message: 1824
    Author: $ Spaz Brown
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Brandmier
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 23:13:52

    Sorry about the misspelling, but he goes by Johnny B now and I never see his
    last name.  Caught him in concert in Alpine, Wisconsin, in the summer of '88
    -- wasn't a bad show.  He certainly had a following there.  The Loop is a
    fairly successful station, even in the Chicago meat market.

    HB

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    Message: 66055
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Veteran's Day?
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 18:53:59

    All of those war holidays just seem to merge together, you know?

    Message: 66056
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff/Max
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 19:22:38

            Hey, I kinda like Mad Max--I liked Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle,
    too, but Mad Max is not too bad. Matter of fact, my son is finishing up four
    years in Schweinfurt, W. Germany, and he has a similar opinion: to wit, that
    the E. Germans have bveen spoiled by forty years of Communism, and now they
    are lazy slobs who want the welfare state to take care of them.  The worst
    of it is, according to my son, they drive the E. German car, the Trabanti,
    on the autobahn, at top speed or 55 miles per hour, and they don't move
    aside for a Porsche. Or even for my son's Mustang at 130 m.p.h.
                    John C.

    Message: 66057
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject:  Dean/ Drugs
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 19:32:27

            It makes a better argument if you DO give it some thought.  I submit
    that substance abusers have a diminished capacity, and they commit not only
    a crime (by using) but an obscene fraud by pretending that they are
    straight when they work on those devices (or really, even if they drive
    street sweepers.) The key here is the substance abuse, and their lying about
    it. If they do use, they should be in positions which do not endanger the
    lives of people who trust them. The country has the right to test those
    people who are in a pohition to harm others, just as the country has the
    right to demand testing before issuing driver's licences, etc. Those who do
    not want the test should not drive or snort, or smoke, or shoot up,OR they
    should go somewhere where they are allowed to do so.  I understand Columbia
    just elected a hard liner anti-drug president, though, so Dean, I don't know
    what to recommend.
            John C.

    Message: 66059
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: x and not x
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:16:33

    "I came here for an arguement!"
    "No you didn't."

    Message: 66060
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: News Today
    Subject: DeConcini
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:22:49

    Did anyone watch channel 3 News at 6pm this evening?
    Did you hear what Dennis said about his proposed anti-gun law?
    He said; "It's not an anti-gun law..it's an anti-drug law.."
    Funny, this SKS 7.62 x 39 is the funniest looking key of coke I ever
    did see.
    Right after that they interviewed my ugly mug. I taped it for
    prosperity when and if we go to a state of revolution..the
    cops and pro-goverment supression types will know who to kill first.
    I hope Dennis gets what is comming to him.

    Message: 66061
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: War!
    Subject: And YOU
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 20:25:57

    I really think anyone who complains about losing rights of gun ownership
    useage and associated gun genre should shut up after todays miserable
    showing.
    If you're too damn busy well you're too damn busy to keep your rights.
    Don;t squawk when they make ownership illegal..you definitely WERE NOT
    there today.
    Did you even call DeConcini's offices in Washington?
    Probably not eh? After all..it's a long distance call.
    Yellow bellied pile of gum bashers.

    Message: 66062
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gary/Memorial/Vet
    Date: 05/28/90  Time: 21:44:27

            Yes Gary, how silly of me to confuse the two.  How could I forget
    the eleventh month, eleventh day, eleventh hour......  Sorry if I got
    carried away....but it was to honor people and not WAR!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66063
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: lines and points
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 00:41:05

    From the Penguin Dictionary of Mathematics:

    "Continuum (plural continua) A compact connected set: a set of elements
    between which a third [element in the same set] can always be inserted.  The
    real numbers form a continuum.  For a line stretching from an origin to
    infinity, every point on the line corresponds to a real number, and every
    real number corresponds to a point on the line.  The points form a continuum
    in one dimension of space.  Time can also be regarded as a continuum."

    Please take note of the phrase "the points form a continuum".

    The terms "compact" and "connected" have a very precise mathematical
    meaning.  I'm still working on trying to understand them.  I'll elucidate
    when I do.

    Message: 66064
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: open and closed sets
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 00:52:40

    From the same dictionary:

    "Closed set (of points)  A set A is closed if it contains all its limit
    points.  For example, the points corresponding to the real numbers equal to
    or greater than zero and equal to or less than 1 constitute a closed set."

    "Open set (of points)  A set of points A is open if every point that is a
    member of A has a neighborhood completely in the set A.  For example, the
    points corresponding to the real numbers greater than zero and less than one
    constitute an open set."

    Note, however, that this is not the same as an open/closed/partially open or
    closed interval.  There is a key difference between containing all limit
    points and containing end points, as well as a key difference between not
    containing end points and all points having a neighborhood entirely in the
    set.
    An infinite plane, for example, is both open and closed.  It contains all
    its points, and therefore its limit points, and so is closed.  But every
    point on the plane has a neighborhood entirely in the set of points in the
    plane, and so it is also open.  This assumes, of course, a planar universe.
    To illustrate the importance of the relative dimensions of a set (or
    subspace) and the space in which it is defined, take the set of real numbers
    greater than zero and less than one along the real number line.
    (CONT.)

    Message: 66065
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: CONT.(last)
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 00:56:34

    Now, this set clearly does not contain all of its limit points, chiefly,
    zero and one.  In a 1 dimensional space it is open, because every point in
    the set has a neighborhood entirely in the set.  It is not closed, either,
    because it does not contain all its limit points.  Put it in a space of
    higher dimension, say, place the real number line in the complex plane, and
    the set is no longer open, because no point in the interval (0,1) has a
    neighborhood entirely within the set.  The set is neither open nor closed.

    Message: 66066
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: melissa/arg
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 07:53:11

    Oh, yes I did.

    Message: 66067
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Roger/arg
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 09:58:26

    No you didn't!

    Message: 66068
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Cummings
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 10:34:03

      A driver's license exam is a test of performance. A drug test is search
    and seizure without probable cause. One does not excuse the other. A
    performance based test for diminished capacity would serve to detect any
    substance abuse which affected people on the job, but it is not being pushed
    by the government because it would not serve their real agenda, big brother
    in the workplace. People who favor drug testing for everyone seem to be
    motivated more by a loathing of anyone who might be doing something on
    their own time that society disapproves of than by any real concern for
    safety.
       If the focus were really safety, as so many claim, then non-invasive
    measures which would assure safety would be touted for those who are in
    positions to cause great harm. Instead, massive chemical analysis is
    demanded for everyone. This demonstrates the true motive behind drug
    testing, it is control and intimidation.
       Drug testing sounds better the more you think about it only if what you
    really desire is a society conditioned to accept the assumption of guilt
    until proven innocent.
       See You Later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 66069
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike C.
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 10:43:15

      I accept your criticism. I should have been there, but I stayed up late
    and didn't wake up until 10:30. I have written and called his office,
    and the impression I get is that they couldn't care less what Arizonan's
    think.
      A big turnout and television coverage might influence somebody somewhere,
    even if it probably won't be Dennis. I remember the big rally I went to a
    while back. There was a huge turnout from all over the state, and many great
    speakers, including the Attorney General and other politicians. The TV
    coverage focused on the worst dressed, least intelligible, attendees and
    carried none of the points made by the speakers at all. It was worthwhile
    for the contacts that were made and the people I registered to vote, but it
    gave me the impression that we can't expect to get our message out through
    the media.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66070
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Melissa/arg
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 11:08:16

    I distinctly remember coming here for the express purpose of argumentation.

    Message: 66071
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: J.Beck
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 16:07:49

    First of all let me say I'm sorry for any words that might slip out
    Who the hell are you to tell me I'm insecure? Are you a phycology proffessor
    or what if you are that still doent make you the ultimate authority. That
    nickname was given to me by so dear friends a long time ago, and I happend
    to like it, so dont judge my damm intelligence, I am halfways educatted, and
    in the proccess of getting more of it. I resent your statements you made
    about me ie. how much does a person with a nickname like Mad Max know.
    Are you so smart that you can look down on a person just because of a
    nickname? Have you ever meet me? No I didnt think so, so dont say things you
    know nothing about. Now if you ever should be so fortunate as to meet me in
    person, then you can make a judgement about me. Well I better not say
    anything else, I'm to mad.

    Bye and see you all later
                              T H E  M A D  M A X  ( and proud of it )

    Message: 66072
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roddy
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 16:30:08

    Re:  "Are "alcohol babies" okay?"

    I'm not sure what an "alcohol baby" is?  I haven't heard that there was a
    problem on the level that there is with cocaine babies.  In answer to your
    question, I would think that anything that would cause pain and suffering to
    a baby would be wrong.  And I don't see abortion as a solution.  I am aware
    of the cocaine problem around the turn of the century.  One of the weekly
    news magazines had a big write up on it a while back.  It was Insight.

    Message: 66073
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mad Max
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 16:35:39

    Re:  "I am halfways educatted"

    Spelling obviously wasn't in the half you received!

    :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:
    :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:

    Message: 66074
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Opposites
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 16:57:31

    Where would you place matter and energy? Motion and position? Momentum and
    Energy? Wave nature and particle nature? Past and present? Are these
    opposites or "contraries" or different aspects of the same central "thing."
    Mysticism, science, and religion are not seeking different truths. There is
    just one truth. There is no conflict between science and religion, just
    between new science and old science-wrapped-in-dogma. We need to think, in
    our Spiritual and in our Scientific search for truth, less about opposites
    and more about how what appear to be opposites are really different aspects
    of the same. Truth and falsehood my be as exclusive as waves and particles,
    but that is to say humans are excluded from seeing both at the same time,
    not that both do not exist. We can set up a lab to make electrons act like
    waves and another to make them act like particles, never both-at-once. Still
    they ARE both at once. Heisenberg may have been here. Truth and falshood are
    both aspects of the search for the attribute whose different faces we have
    named "Truth" and "Falsehood," still it is ONE attribute, not two.

     .     /\\
     .    {@.@}
     .     )"(     Mike

    Message: 66075
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Measurement
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:03:32

    You are still trying to obtain the length of an interval by integrating the
    points along that interval instead of just subtracting the initial from the
    final condition. The points may represent rationals or irrationals, no
    matter, that has nothing to do with measuring the length of the interval at
    all. Points have NO dimension, you can't pile enough of them
    shoulder-to-shoulder to mean anything. I think that is where you are
    confusing yourself. Thanks for the info on the Lebesque Integral. I am 20
    years away from my last ADvanced Analysis class in college and admit to
    having forgotten much. I captured your post and will study and respond as I
    can later. Still, don't try to "account for" the length of an interval by
    "accounting for" all the points on the line. That would be an endless
    search.

    Mike

    Message: 66076
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pie versus Pi
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:08:30

    Yes, what you say may be true, but it was a tasty piece of fresh peach pie.
    I thought we were talking about Euclidean points. We weren't? Gosh, if you
    want to get non-Eucledian on me we can do anything we want to, all in how we
    define things, right? Do "your" points have a limit of "closeness" or
    neighborhood around which or into which other points are forbidden?
    Interesting... well, back to the pie... Hmmmmm I can sure differentiate
    between home made and store bought!

     .     /\\
     .    {@.@}
     .     )"(     Mike

    Message: 66077
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Jeff Lochansky
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:22:33

    Whatever.  The point is, if you kick a dog, you're asking to get bitten.  I
    don't like people telling me what to post (or what not to post) so long as
    the topic is within the bounds of what is allowed by the sysop for that
    particular area.
    You don't like people telling you you're insecure or childish, I don't like
    people telling me to shut up because I'm such a bloody bore.

    Message: 66078
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: alchohol babies
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:23:24

    Fetal alcohol syndrome is the third leading cause of infant defects.
    Cocaine doesn't even come close.  After all, there are far more alcoholics
    than there are coke addicts.

    Message: 66079
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike/opposites
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:29:25

    You give me complete, specific definitions of those things and I will tell
    you how they should be classified.
    Certainly, things that *appear* to be "opposites" might not in fact be
    "opposites," but then, we're talking about contraries and contradictories,
    not pseudo-opposites.

    Message: 66080
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike/points
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:34:00

    I suggest that you reread my messages on continua.  There is nothing new or
    controversial about the definitions I gave.  See also my next posts.
    Points in and of themselves have no dimension.  No finite or enumerably
    infinite aggregation of points has dimension.  A non-enumerably infinite,
    compact, connected set, such as the set of real numbers, HAS dimension.  It
    is a continuum in one dimension.  Which part of the real line is not a
    point?

    Message: 66081
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike/Euclidian
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:35:22

    We were talking about Euclidian points.  That is why your pie analogy was
    inappropriate.

    Message: 66082
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Continua
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:45:08

    Continuum: a compact connected set.  The real numbers form a continuum.  For
    a line stretching from an origin to infinity, every point on the line
    corresponds to a real number and every real number corresponds to a point on
    the line.  The points form a continuum in one dimension.  There is no part
    of the interval which is not a real number, and therefore it is composed of
    points, packed in a compact, connected manner.  The concept of zero
    magnitude does not preclude continuity in this case.

    Connected:  a set A is connected if there do not exist disjoint nonempty
    subsets of A (X and Y) such that the union of X and Y = A, and such that X
    contains no limit points of Y and Y contains no limit points of X.
    Intuitively, this means that the set is all in one piece.
    Two sets are disjoint if they have no common members (that is, if the
    intersection of the two sets is the null set).  I can think of many pairs of
    disjoint nonempty subsets of the real number set R whose sum is R.  One such
    pair are the subsets X and Y of the rationals and the irrationals.  Another
    pair are the subsets X and Y of the algebraic numbers and the transcendental
    numbers.  However, in each case, X contains limit points of Y, and vice
    versa.  In fact, in the first case (and I believe in the second) *every*
    point of X is a limit point of Y and the reverse is also true.  Therefore, R
    is connected.

    CONT.

    Message: 66083
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: continua (CONT.)
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 17:50:42

    The set of rationals (S*1) on the other hand is not connected.  For example,
    the set S*1 can be divided into two subsets consisting of those rationals
    less than the square root of two, and those rationals greater than the
    square root of two.  These subsets sum to S*1, they are nonempty, and they
    are disjoint, and neither one contains a limit point of the other.
    Therefore, S*1 is disconnected.  The set of rationals is, however, *dense*
    in itself because every neighborhood of any point of the set contains
    another point of the set (in other words, it is a set composed entirely of
    limit points, sometimes called a perfect set).

    Compact:  a set S is compact if every infinite subset of S (every subset of
    S with an infinite number of points) has a limit point in the set S.
    Obviously, the set R of real numbers is compact: every infinite subset of R
    must have a limit point in the set, because R is perfect.

    Message: 66084
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike/perception
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 19:49:33

    I think that your difficulty comes from the attempt to use common sense
    (rules of the finite realm) in the realm of the infinite.  Common sense
    dictates that size is a concept which belongs to the finite realm -- that
    one does not speak of relative size between infinities.  Yet I can
    demonstrate that some infinities are bigger than others, and furthermore,
    that there is an infinite hierarchy of infinities.  Cantor's paradox
    intrudes, however, at that point.

    Message: 66085
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: B.Thornburg
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 21:48:01

    Hey gus, you know how that is with use dumb krauts, I just forget to much
    english when I'm mad, all my thinking is done in german. Have you ever tried
    writing in english and thinking in german? Let me tell you it is not easy.
    But I'll get better, I promise. 3 or 4 more years of college should do it.
    Later on
          THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66086
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: J Cummings/answer
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 21:53:58

    Hey dude, I'm glad you like my nickname. You are totally right about those
    east Germans, my mom just talked to me a couple of days ago from the BRD and
    said it was getting unberable over there. I guess the Russians just got
    sick of footing the bill for those east germans, and figured us dumb west
    germans would bail them out of the mess they where in. Believe me she tells
    me not all roses smell good in Germany anymore. Tell me, have you ever been
    in the BRD? I shure hope they get those east germans of the autobahn.
    well thats if for now
                          THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66087
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: My spelling
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 22:00:37

    I shure am sorry I spell so bad.
    Like we say in Germany:
    I speak english very well,
    aber es geht noch nicht so schnell.
    What that means is I got my education in germany, but I'll try to get more
    here. Since I am a disabled american vet (believe it or not) the VA told me
    they were going to pay for my education. So I'll be able to spell better in
    about 3-4 years.
    See you all later
                        THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66088
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: J.Beck
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 22:03:34

    I was not trying to tell you not to write posts, I was trying to get other
    people interested in an other topic.
    By the way I shoot dogs that bite me, dead
    Later dude
              THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66089
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff Lochansky
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 22:29:59

            Hey Jeff... Do NOT fret over your English spelling.  i think you are
    doing rather well for a new user.  I spell very poorly myself, and have
    learned to just ignor the jabs while I keep trying.  Just don't let it get
    you down.

            As for your "MAD MAX", I as SysOP have NO problem with that handle.

            As for subject matter... That is up to the users for the most part.
    If you have something you wish to talk about, just start posting an if
    anyone is interested, they will or may respond.   However, you should never
    call another person's posts boring because YOU don't find it stimulating.
    Just learn to use the [S]kip key.  Just remember, You can't please all the
    people, all the time.

            And most important, just take things with a grain of salt and have
    fun.

            Hope to see you at the next GT (Get-Together)

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66090
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gun rally
    Date: 05/29/90  Time: 23:28:05

    Well, I considered going down to Dennis'.  One thing that sort of put me off
    was the suggestion that there would be some brick-throwing.  However, I
    really didn't plan to go, but did think about it several times.

    Message: 66091
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Brick-throwing
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 00:46:37

            It was said in jest I am sure.  The 'cop-out' however, sorta puts me
    off.  I guess your 'rights' are not worth the effort?

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66092
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Weapon Basic
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 00:49:47

            This Saturday....   I would like to know who will be going that
    would like to borrow a weapon and just how much ammo I have to make up for
    the Saturday class.  If you are just going for the morning lecture, you will
    not need a weapon.

                            clif-

    Message: 66093
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff / Dog
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 01:27:41

    B. Dog is not much unlike many in this and other States who want to
    care but can't. They are indeed incapable. Until it affects someone
    personally, it will mean nothing to them. In that fashion, I think
    anyone who doesn't care should at least be honest about it.
    There's a poem I ran accross a while back. I fail to find it now when it
    would be appropriate, but it was words to the effect of;
    "They came and took the Germans today...ohh well, I'm not German anyway"
    "They came and took the jews today..ohh well, I'm not Jewish either.."
    "They came and took the Gun owners today..ohh well, I don't like guns.."
    "They came and took the Afghanni's today..ohh well, I'm American.."
    "They came for me today and I tried to protest..but there was no one
    left to march in my parade."

    No, I don't see more than two or three people besides myself with enough
    reason to figure out what can and ultimately will happen if they
    pass this bill. Sure, it's like cream and sugar now..that's the way
    they sell lemons. Deny it's even a gun law. DeConcini lied on National TV
    the other night..how many are raising hell about it?
    No.
    I wrote my letters. I made my calls and I stood my ground and I will
    live to hear the day these mindless sheep bleating for freedom and begging
    for the power to regain it. Only then it's much much too late.
    And all the "I told you so's" wont put America back together again.

    Message: 66094
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Brick throwing
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 01:34:02

    Yes, it was made in jest...and if it wasn't, if you don't feel
    strong enough about your constitutional rights being ripped up in front
    of your eyes to throw a brick, then don't buy a gun either. That kind
    of spineless excuse is exactly what the Senators are hoping for.
    My old man was right. He said the crap in the gene pool would float
    to the surface, yellow belly side up.  They'd croak and cringe and
    ask for legislative hand-outs because they can't handle the workload
    of generations before them.

    If you're too yellow to hold a sign, voice your opinion in full view of
    the public and your detractors, go swim back to your deep dark hole
    and stay there. The next ten years promises to be a real dandy decade...

    Message: 66096
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 09:25:15

    Funny how Dean was saying that the media always puts on these zelots to make
    the anti-gun control side look crazy.  Then I hear that that Channel 3
    picked you to interview, the "just in jest" brick thrower who now is
    stating that one is spineless unless they do so.
    I didn't know about the rally/protest until it was happening but the reason
    I didn't go and would not go is because I don't want to be associated with
    people like you who sound like they are ready to shoot anyone who doesn't
    agree with them.  Maybe you are kidding, Mike, but I would not feel safe
    alone with you and your gun.
    (Note:  I didn't not say I didn't want to be associated with Cliff or Sandy
    or Dean or Beau.  I only singled out one person for his behavior)

    Message: 66097
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: MIke
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 09:26:06

    And by the way, if you think my writing is "garbage" why not skip my
    messages?  That's what I do with yours.

    Message: 66098
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GT's
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 10:36:05

    I hear a lot about GT'S, where are they and when? I would shure like to
    attend. I'd love to meet some of the folks I spend so much time talking to.
    See you all later
                      THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66099
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: LAST
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 11:18:15

      Work is progressing on a video compilation of past GT's. I would like to
    host a GT at my place to present it when it is done. I don't know for sure
    when that will be, but I will keep you posted.
      See You Later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 66100
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa Dee
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 12:25:30

    I'm not advocating throwing bricks into windows. Since you're incapable
    of responsding rationally due to your emotional handicap, you should
    re-read my posts before attempting to put words in my mouth.
    Your inference of zealotry is about standard for someone with
    no idea of what was said, the reasons behind it or the cuase for which
    it has all been done. If I'm to be branded a zealot by a porn Queen
    that's o.k.. I just consider the source is all.
    If I'm branded a zealot for voicing my opinion on a news cast that's
    just fine as well...I at least have the intestinal fortitude to do
    so , unlike Melissa here who instead of listening before she mouths
    off about something automatically labels it without knowing anything
    about it. You are a mis-informed zealot yourself. I know the reason
    for which I stood, you, however, have made a totally un-informed
    attack based soley on presumption and assumptions. That is zealotry.

    This is what our society is made up of. A bunch of wheezing and
    frightened flaming liberals who strike out blindly at anything which
    threatens their lifestyle. Imagined forces of evil out to steal their
    cabbage patch dolls and shoot them with semi-automatic weapons.

    You're right about one thing, Melissa; You should be afraid of me with
    my gun..because I will use it against anyone who attacks me with like
    force. I'm no push-over and I *will* keep my freedom. Keep your fear,
    its the only thing you have that is real.

    Message: 66101
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 12:36:21

    My opinion of your messages remains unchanged.
    Nor can you do anything about it.
    Welcome to America.

    Message: 66102
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Pseudo semi opposite
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 12:54:14

    Well, I really can't define the prerequisite information to discuss the
    Hiesenberg Uncertanity Principle with you on this BBS. I am limited as to
    time, number of posts, and the like here. There is a free public BBS where
    we can have this conversation with unlimited posts, 99 lines long, a good
    editor, and no fee. 938-6866. COnsider this an invitation.

    Mike

    Message: 66103
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Continua - ation
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 12:56:48

    I agree with your definition of a continua and of the connected set of real
    numbers being one. No problem there. Doesn't that answer your original
    question? Is the question still on the floor? I think you answered yourself
    totally and quite well. No arguement here at all. Congratulations.

     .     /\\
     .    {@.@}
     .     )"(     Mike

    Message: 66104
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Peachy Analogies
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 13:05:35

    Perhaps not inappropriate, just not well-stated. To integrate the function
    to get the area under the curve is appropriate, right? That operation moves
    us from the one-dimension of the line as a limit to each infinitesmal slice
    of the area into the area itself; from one to two dimensions. Integration
    always does that, moves us "up" one level. The top view of the pie sliceing
    operation has lines to define the limits of the area of the top surface of
    my too-small piece. Same.. good analogy... good pie, too. You seemed to be
    trying to integrate the points along a line (no dimension) and come up with
    the length of the interval (1 dimension). I don't see how that can be done
    as the points do not carry any information or functional relationship to
    each other. The piece of pie does carry flavor, juice, pieces of crust and
    fruit, etc. Now we are getting somewhere! Otherwise we are packing points
    between each other all day only to find that as many as "fill" the entire
    interval can STILL fit between the closest two with room for a billion more
    to spare, not even having to squeeze them at all, then we start over and
    still don't need vaseline. Points! they only label a location.

    Is this an arguement or a discussion?

     .     /\\
     .    {@.@}
     .     )"(     Mike

    Message: 66105
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 15:43:23

    Re:  "Cocaine doesn't even come close."

    I take your word for it that there are more alcohol babies then cocaine
    babies.  It makes sense that there are more people doing booze then people
    doing cocaine.  But, cocaine babies is a major problem today.  I would say
    the number is well into the hundreds if not the thousands.  The newspaper
    article I read probably gave numbers, but I don't remember them.

    Message: 66106
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: War!
    Subject: Jeff Lochansky
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 19:02:59

    Bah.  I blow cigar smoke in your face, sonny boy.
    Now then, why don't you put on your Batman jammies, hunker down in front of
    the boob-tube, and watch Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles for the 437th time.

    Message: 66107
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Uncertainty principl
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 19:16:33

    Well, I have a general understanding of it.  In effect, the observer has an
    affect on that which he is observing, and therefore certain measurements are
    necessarily innacurate.  In particular, I believe that on a quantum level it
    is impossible to get accurate (uninfluenced by observation) measurements of
    the velocity AND position of particles.  I am not sure, however, how this
    would extend to our discussion of classifications and logic.
    Unfortunately, and I am by no means implying that YOU of all people would
    commit such a heinous act, the uncertainty principle, along with various
    other relativity related concepts, have been stolen from their scientific
    niche and applied innapropriately to various mystical concepts.  This seems
    to be commonplace: a (relatively) new and somewhat obscure scientific
    concept is developed for a highly specific application, and metaphysicians,
    mystics, and assorted other quacks, recognizing the potential of a concept
    which is both respected by the establishment and commonly misunderstood,
    apply the concept unscientifically toward illigitimate ends.

    Message: 66108
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike/pie
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 19:23:55

    I have your message printed out and will give it due consideration before
    replying.  At this moment I am preparing to see a 7:50pm movie (Bird On A
    Wire.)

    Message: 66109
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: $tatus users only
    Subject: Roger/66070
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 19:31:05

    AHA! Thotso.

    :)

    Message: 66110
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: $tatus users only
    Subject: Dean/66099
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 19:34:53

    Would be nice to include the video for the HVGT, but the problem is that it
    hasn't been shot yet, and when it does, it will already be too late.

    CHR--> :)

    Message: 66111
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: War!
    Subject: J.Beck
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 19:53:40

    Gee, I'm past mutant ninja turtles, my moomy told me there was to much
    violence. All she lets me watch now is US ARMY Ranger training films and
    movies about homocidale maniacs. I'll gladly trad you my batman Jammies for
    your Captain Kangoro outfit. Gee, I've gots to go, my mommy is calling and
    telling me to put back my Mack 10, otherwise she wouldn't let me play with
    my Uzi no more.
    Later on sucker
                    THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66112
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: J. Beck & Lochansky
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 20:14:48

            Hey guys, what gives?  I want you BOTH as users!

    Ditto for the M. Dee & Carter feud.

                            Geesh, Only SysOp's are suppose to be GrUmPy!

    Message: 66113
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: In search of
    Subject: ... umbrellas
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 21:53:44

    Well, the last time that it rained for a few days in Phoenix, I thought to
    myself "no sweat, I ripped off JT's umbrella when I was in DC, I'll just use
    that."

    However, it had DISAPPEARED!  It was *no where to be found* in the house.
    All of the usual hiding places, even the logical hiding places, were lacking
    umbrellas.

    Today I went sailing, and left one set of keys (with the house key) in the
    car, and kept a 'spare' key (just the car key) on my person.  Well, I
    couldn't find the keys when we were done, so I just blew them off. I
    couldn't find them when we got home, so I just blew them off.  Then, through
    some real bad luck, we got locked out of the house *except for the car keys
    which the car had stolen*.  In my long search to find them (yes, the car
    finally 'fessed up), I came across: JT's umbrella.  Too bad that he lives in
    NYC now or I could give it back to him in a few weeks.

    Message: 66114
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: SYSOP request
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 22:17:10

    I guess your right. I'm sorry didnt mean to offend anybody. I was just
    trying to outdo him. Guess I got caried away a bit you know how that is with
    use dumb folks( just kiding). I promise not to do it again because I enjoy
    your board emensly ( propably spelled wrong(so what)). I think Apollo is by
    far the best BBS in town and I wouldnt want to be locked out. Hey keep up
    the great work Cliff (no I'm not kissing up).I prpably wouldnt complain
    about those , what I thought was boring messages if I had more than 300 baud
    But that might be solved in a vew days ( I think I found a good deal on a
    new 383/st-16 awsome machine I'm in love with it) So wish me luck that my
    credit rating is good enough to get it.
    Honestly sorry
                   THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66115
    Author: John Groseclose
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Beck vs. Lochansky?
    Date: 05/30/90  Time: 22:34:44

       I haven't seen anything like this since it was James Taranto and Nick
    Ianuzzi vs. MYSELF!  Hmmm.  Seems like things don't change much, but the
    names do.

    BTW:  Cliff, you don't happen to have the date I first logged on here, do
    you?  This was the first board I ever logged on, and I'd like to mention it
    in the WAMUG newsletter article I'm writing.
    ABTW: WAMUG = Whittier Area Macintosh Users Group

                                       John Groseclose

    Message: 66116
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike/Continua
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 02:03:23

       Actually, it was not a continua that was defined.  It was a continuum.
    It's the same as someone saying he has a criteria for something, when in
    reality it's only a criterion.  Or saying he's observed such-and-such a
    phenomena, when it was a phenomenon.  Or saying he wants a geese for
    Christmas dinner instead of a turkey, when he really wants a goose.

                                        =(O,O)=  Hoot!

    Message: 66117
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Groseclose
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 04:37:56

    What a dweeb.

    Message: 66118
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: peachy integration
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 07:57:21

    Integration from a point to a line is easy. it can be represented by
    the integral:

    x1
    ( dx
    )
    x0

    Message: 66119
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: beau/umbrellas
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 08:00:15

    You have discovered one of very few cosmic principles. In order to find
    a lost object, one must not look for it.

    Message: 66120
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Steve/ua
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 08:02:00

    But I feel like such a fool when I ask for datum.

    Message: 66121
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: John Groseclose
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 08:28:24

            I looked you up in the database and I see you joined Apollo as a
    $tatus user 01/26/85.  You were 13 at that time.   I am sure you did use the
    system earlier, but that is the oldest date I have on record for you.

            I hope this helps!

                                            clif-

    Message: 66122
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Vote
    Subject: what next?
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 08:48:56

            The current Vote should be ended soon.  For those of you who seem
    reluctant to use the ote feature, I really wish you would try it anyway.
    I guarantee your selection is PRIVATE.

            Anyone have a GOOD suggestion for a new ote?

            Should OLD otes be stored somewhere for future viewing, in
    addition to being placed as a new message on this lic board?

            I am looking for input on this ote cmd for $tatus users, as I
    would like to see more of you participate.

            Apollo can be more fun when more of you add your two-cents worth.
    Apollo would like to build up its membership, as we plan being around a long
    time.....  A VERY long time.   For those of you who use other systems as
    well, please post plugs for Apollo BBS where ever you can if the SysOp of
    that system allows it.  If Apollo is not listed in their ther Systems
    list, please ask them to do so.  I am always pleased to list ther systems
    in mine when asked to do so.  MOST SysOps do this with no problem.

            If you are reading this and you are not YET a member, please
    consider joining the Apollo Family if you LIKE what you see.   However, if
    you still choose not too, this is fine, all we want is you to have fun.
                                    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66123
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 08:58:22

      No problem, we just run the existing tape on one monitor, while recording
    the event and outputting the new version to another monitor.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66124
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: J.T.
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 09:04:09

      I still need to get a tape of that J.T. interview on television the other
    night for my Apollo In The News segment. Does anyone have it recorded?
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66125
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: War!
    Subject: Mike
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 09:41:09

    I am responding emotionally?  Please!  Your testostorone(SP?) is spewing
    everywhere.
    You just proved my point beautifully.
    Thank you.
    And thanks for the warning.  Me and my 1st ammendment right will be sure to
    stay clear of your second.

    Message: 66126
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 09:43:58

    How's this for a vote:

    "Which is more objectional in our society
     A.  A Gun Zealot
     B.  A Porn Queen
     C.  A Dweeb

    Message: 66127
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last on Dee's Vote
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 10:28:46

    D. A SysOp

    Just what is a 'Dweeb' anyway?

    Message: 66128
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: A Christmas Goose
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 20:35:33

    Thank you again for correcting my plura in Greek-derivatived worda. I have
    only eaten a goosum once. It was kind of fatty, but that made the meat
    juicey. I usually like to have a nice ham on Christmas, but my mom and wife
    make turkeys and roast beef, too. We have a choice of meata. Do you like
    Christmas Goose?

     .     /\\
     .    {@.@}
     .     )"(     Mike

    Message: 66129
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: dx
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 20:38:54

    Explain the meaning of the integral from x0 to x1 of dx. How's that end up a
    line or anything? I get the integral from x0 to x1 of f(x)dx to be the area
    under the curve just fine. Wouldn't the integral of just dx be just x? Teach
    me here, Roger, I'm listening.

    x1
    ( Mike(x)dx
    )
    x0

    Message: 66130
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: War!
    Subject: Mike M or C?
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 20:43:19

    I realize that "Mike" here means Mike Carter, but I always have to figure it
    out and since I totally disagree with his position on keeping guns available
    in the hands of the insecure and immature, it bothers me slightly. Now if I
    jump in here and take my stand totally in favor of resonable and much-needed
    gun control, AND I am also a "Mike" won't that really make a pretty mess?

    Wwll, maybe a pseudonym DOES make sense sometimes. Sign me,

    The Dancing Teddy Bear who hates guns....Teddy Bear for short.

    Message: 66131
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike M
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 21:36:06

    Why not just refer to you as Middleton?

    Message: 66132
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: "feud" ??
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 21:59:24

    I think we're exchanging semi-friendly banter.

    Message: 66133
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff L.
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 22:01:02

    Nah, don't be intimidated into APOLLO-gizing.

    Message: 66134
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Missing the point
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 22:14:20

    (Hyuk! Hyuk!)  Yes, you can pack points between each other "all day" and
    still have enough room for a billion more.  But here's the rub:  we aren't
    talking about a billion, nor a billion to the billionth power, nor even an
    enumerable infinity of points.  We are talking about a non-enumerable
    infinity of points, and, equally important, all of those points between any
    two points belong to the compact, connected set of real numbers.  It is this
    non-enumerably *infinite* process of packing points which, taken by
    themselves or in finite or enumerably infinite aggregates, have zero
    dimension, which produces a one-dimensional continuum.  Sort of a case of
    the quantum generating the continuous, to play fast and loose with words.
    Shades of the multi-faceted oneness of which you spoke.
    The number of points in an enumerably infinite set, such as the set of whole
    numbers or the set of rationals, for that matter, is the cardinal number
    "aleph-null."  The number of subsets of a set of n elements is 2^n.  The
    number of subsets of an enumerably infinite set is therefore 2^aleph-null,
    or aleph-1.  This is the cardinality of the set of real numbers (and, it can
    consequently be shown, the number of irrationals).  It is a transfinite
    number.  It is generally believed, though not proven in a strict
    mathematical sense, that there are no transfinites between aleph-null and
    aleph-1.  This is known as the Continuum Hypothesis.
    I can understand, however, why this makes no sense to you.  At one stage, it
    was the same way for me.  At a subsequent stage, I could rationally
    comprehend the definitions, but I had not achieved gestalt.  It now makes
    intuitive sense to me.

    Message: 66135
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: integrating points
    Date: 05/31/90  Time: 22:22:36

    Integrating a point set to find the length of an interval is precisely what
    a Lebesgue integral does.  As you said, integration always moves us up one
    level.  It is not always possible perform such an integration.  For the
    class of sets which are additive sets, which are non-enumerable and
    discontinuous, and which due to their additive nature are *measurable*, it
    is possible when the integral limit does not tend to infinity.  This is a
    somewhat complex subject, and one which I have not yet fully grasped even at
    a fundamental level, but I am willing to discuss it to the best of my
    ability.  At this point, however, I would prefer to do a little more
    reading.  I am also tired ot typing.

    Message: 66136
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mann/Datum
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 01:11:17

      If you feel like a fool when asking for a datum, then ask for some data.
    You might get all the data you want.  How many data do you need?

                                 =(u,u)=  Yawn!

    Message: 66137
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Middleton/Geese
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 01:12:15

      I've never eaten a goose before, but I had a duck once.  That was greasy
    enough.

                                    =(O,O)=  Hoot!

    Message: 66138
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Dee
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 07:01:13

    OK, you can call me Middleton if I can call you Dee.

    Ray

    Message: 66139
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gestalt
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 07:13:47

    If you have acheived gestalt, then what's the question. It seemed to me that
    YOU were getting pretty mystical with trying to either "pave" the number
    line with rational and irrational Euclidian points (which we agree is
    useless) or else you were trying to pave the Universe with classes the
    things that were or were not classes of themselves (spoons and not spoons).
    I was perhaps not clear enough in stating that Euclidian points are not
    "paving squares." Roger offered the integral from x0 to x1 of plain old dx.
    Well, dx IS "paving squares." dx is NOT a Euclidian point, but the limit as
    epsilon approaches zero (I tries a new thread named e -> 0, but it didn't
    "set" well with you). Classes of spoons and not spoons are also poor ways to
    try to "pave" existence. I also tried to point out that Heisenberg (you did
    not state the HP correctly) showed us that what appear to be opposite things
    are really the same, but we are just prevented from seeing or sampling from
    more than one nature at a time. I am not confused, and I am quite willing to
    measure the length of an interval by just subtracting the end points
    coordinates (which is the easy way to do Roger's intergation suggestion). If
    there is a gestalt to be gained from trying to understand the duality of
    existence it is this, that is an illusion. Truth and falsehood, particles
    and waves, spoons and Not-spoons, rationals and irrational, male and female,
    life and death; all these are not opposites that can be joined like puzzle
    pieces to accrue to the pie-of-life. These are different aspects of the same
    central Truth. Greek thought does not offer the answer, even if you have not
    stuck to the question.
    Mike

    Message: 66140
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: integral dx
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 07:36:14

    The integral of dx from x0 to x1 is
    x1 - x0 or the length of a line from x0 to x1
    the indefinite integral of dx
    is x + C, which is the equation of a line whose slope is 1 at offset
    is x + C, the equation of line slope 1 at offset C. In general the
    integral of kdx produces a line of slope k at offset C. No mystery. Going
    the other way, the differential of Kx + C  is Kdx.

    Message: 66141
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: steve/mucho data
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 07:40:08

    I HATE saying how many data do you need ? I'd rather say how MUCH data do
    you need ? Of course when looking at a core dump, I guess I could say how
    MUCH data do you need.

    Message: 66142
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Middleton
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 12:34:20

    "I totally disagree with his position on keeping guns available in the
    hands of the insecure and immature, it bothers me slightly."
    So you're an advocate of deciding who is mature and secure enough to
    own a weapon?
    Will that be a federally mandated or state mandated task force that
    decides who gets to own one?
    There is a law now that prevents anyone under the age of 21 (The legal
    age of drinking et al) from buying a pistol of any description.
    My question is, how does one judge anothers level of maturity or security?
    ANother would be ; How does that affect the ability or the legality of
    owning a weapon?

    Are you then an advocate of limiting freedoms to those judged soley on
    their demonstrated and federally certified maturity and security ?

    Just what is your idea of a free society?

    P.S. My position isn't limited to the straw-man you make...I'm in favor
         of the un-adulterated , untouched and un modified constitution of
         the United States. With that comes responsibility...the fact that
         some people aren't responsible is not grounds to change the
         Constitution like you're advocating.

    Message: 66143
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 12:44:48

    But you're not keeping your 1st amendment rights separate from my
    2nd. You're inferring that I'll use my 2nd ammendment rights to silence
    your 1st. You couldn't be more totally wrong.
    That lie is being perpetrated by a lot of people who are so near sighted
    about guns that they fear anyone owning them. The media hasn't helped
    much either sadly enough.
    Your vicious self-serving style of vindication is a result of several
    years of me-first attitudes being permitted in politics and in society.
    The blame here is on everyone.
    Control on society isn't dependant upon the tools which they use to
    be disruptive, but they themeselves as dishonest creatures of hate.
    Instead of gun control, people control. If we're going to control anything,
    it would be better to mandate moral teaching than to ban anything.
    Drugs have been banned.
    DWI is banned
    Rape is banned
    Murder is banned

    I guess all these bans are working so we'd better ban guns too eh?

    Message: 66144
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Free Spirit Ent.
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 14:27:19

            I found a nice little store that had all sorts of used hardware.
    I saw a TRS 80 mod I, A Sanyo CPM setup, Apple II's, IBM clones, Atari ST
    hardware, Dumb terminals, printers, monitors...  and all sorts of other used
    and hard to find equipment.   The General Manager (Chris Wiley) was also
    very nice and easy to chat with.  The place is called 'Free Spirit
    Enterprises Inc. and is located at 15820 N. 35th Ave, suite 4 (just north of
    Greenway on the west side of the street.  Phone number 843-6046

            Tell him you saw it on Apollo BBS!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66145
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: War!
    Subject: Unadulterated death
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 15:13:01

    There is no such thing as a "pure unadulterated Constitution of the United
    States." That is just a patriotic ruse to try and paint those who advocate
    gun control as somehow anti-American. The Constitution is and always a
    living and changing document, able to be amended and intrepreted for the
    times at hand. I suggest a good way to tell who is and who is not mature and
    secure enough to own a gun... those who have no desire to own one are the
    only ones mature enough. I can sure think of a few safer ways those with
    deep-seated feelings of inadequacy could try and compensate. How about
    lifting a pickup truck with big springs and a dozen shock absorbers. That
    would let you feel like a "big man" without the possibility of killing
    someone or a fatal or maiming accident. You could also consider wearing tee
    shirts with successful sports teams names on them... seems to work for other
    immature and insecure types.

    Take every gun you own and dispose of them. You don't need them to feel
    grown up and those around you don't need the danger they represent.

    There is far more power in humble service and loving submission than in
    every gun ever made put together. Think about it.

    Mike (Middleton)

    Message: 66146
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 16:36:50

    You think the Constitution should be changed from time to time...

    So, why don't we modify the freedom of religion so that it is, 'State
    controlled and approved.'

    Freedom of speech should also be changed to just include the Sunday funnies
    and only if they don't poke fun at the government.

    All kidding aside, the freedom you now enjoy was obtained by the bravery of
    people not fearing guns, but people who knew how to use them as tools.
    Cowards like yourself.... hid under the bed while MEN spilled their blood to
    get you these freedoms.  And you want to change the freedoms you don't
    happen to like....  UP YOURS!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66147
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mad Max/literacy
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 19:06:02

            Jeff/Mad Max: Willkommmen an den Apollo BBS! Es freut mich noch
    einmal Deutsch zu lesen. Und von einem echtigen Deutschen, sogar! Ich bin
    drei yahre in Berlin gewesen, neunzehnhundert zwei und fuenfzig bis vier und
    fuenfzig. Ich habe es geliebt. Damals, in jenen tagen, habe ich wirklich
    Deutsch sprechen koennen. Sie werden nastuerlich verstehen, in den passenden
    achtund dreissig yahre, ich habe beinahe meine ganze Deutsche Zunge
    vergessen und verloren.
            I still speak a bit of Spanish, tho--use it in Mexico. Most Mexicans
    are kind and polite--they don't make fun of my broken Spanish. Some
    Americans make fun of foreign accents, I notice, nicht wahr?
            You'll find this a really good board. There are some narrow minded
    bigots with visegrip brains and null acht fuenfzehn minds, argumentative and
    low intelligence. There are also some very intelligent, sharp witty people
    who agree with me. Rely on Sysop, he's great.    John C.

    Message: 66148
    Author: $ John Cummings
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Sysop/guns
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 19:20:56

            Hey, Sysop, well said! A little emotional, perhaps, bvut right on!
    I've noticed that the people who want to do away with guns are almost always
    people who have never been trained to use them or have used them in defense
    of the liberty we have.  Liberty is not free: brave men's blood was spilled
    to get it, and to keep it. Those who think it is not worth fighting for will
    lose it.     John C.

    Message: 66149
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: BASIC Gun & Law
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 22:46:34

            For you users coming to the class tomorrow (Saturday), be sure to
    pack a lunch or bring munchies.   Margarett brings cold soda, but that's
    50 cents a 'Pop'... ha ha ha ha... (not funny?)

            SysOp Sandy will be there as one of the weapons instructers, and I
    will be there to get in the way.

            We leave from my place at 8am sharp.....(if you don't already know
    the way).  If you go to the range on your own, we are meeting at 'Practical
    Pistol',  Ben Avery (Black Canyon) shooting range, north on I-17.

    A Quote:
            "On every question of the Constitution let us carry ourselves back
    to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit
    manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be
    squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable
    one in which it was passed."
                                    Thomas Jefferson

    Message: 66150
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 06/01/90  Time: 23:32:05

    "That lie is being perpetrated by a lot of people who are so near sighted
    about guns that they fear anyone owning them."

    No, Mike, I fear YOU owning one.  It's not guns that kill people - it's
    people who kill people, right?  Just like drugs ABUSE hurts people, not the
    drug itself.  You don't even know my position on guns, never asked.  You
    just ASS ume I am a "bleeding heart liberal" and start ranting.  If you
    actually would like a debate, rather than a put down session, I will be glad
    to participate.  Until then...

    "I came here for an arguement"
    "No, you didn't"...

    Message: 66151
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike M.
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 01:01:57

    What exactly does "pave" mean, in this context?
    The gestalt does not alter my initial problem:  How is it that the measure
    of a non-enumerable, discontinuous set is the same as that of the interval
    in which the set resides?  You have never begun to approach this question,
    much less the answer, because you evidently cannot comprehend the concept of
    a continuum, in the mathematical sense.  I have explained this in four or
    five messages, and I am beginning to suspect you of obscurantism.
    I do not think that there is anything mystical in the contemplation of a
    logical paradox, so long as one does not impute special powers to paradoxes,
    as you are wont to do, by spouting mindless babble about the oneness of the
    universe.  When you start insisting that true and false, two mutually
    exclusive contradictories, are the same thing in different guises, you have
    surely stepped off the cliff of rationality and into the abyss of unreason,
    since you have absolutely no logical basis upon which to make such a claim.
    As for integration, I have tried to explain that the Lebesgue integral is no
    less a limiting sum than a Riemann integral -- to no avail.
    Your statement about the duality of existence being an illusion, and that
    everything is part of a central Truth (your capitalization) is very
    high-sounding.  But then, that's what mystics specialize in, isn't it;
    vague, bombastic rhetoric which aspires to truth but never manages to escape
    the morass of its own self-contradictory, poorly defined, and unverifiable
    assertions, which are frequently so unintelligible that it is impossible to
    ascertain exactly what is being asserted.  You are wasting my time.

    Message: 66152
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: guns/Mike M.
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 01:07:40

    Once again, some very pretty rhetoric.  I suppose that if we lived in the
    best of all possible worlds, there would be something in what you said.  The
    fact is, we live among predators and those who are unwilling to act against
    them are more vulnerable than those who ARE willing to act against them.
    Guns are merely one tool, to be applied in appropriate cases.  For someone
    who believes that duality is an illusion, you certainly seem to have bought
    into some rather simplistic dichotomies.

    Message: 66153
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: uncertainty principl
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 01:21:56

    "It is impossible to determine with accuracy both the position and the
    momentum of a particle (e.g. an electron) simultaneously."  Momentum is a
    function of mass and *velocity*.  Mass, in relativistic terms, is a function
    of rest mass, the speed of light, and the *velocity* of the particle.
    My definition was NOT incorrect.
    The act of observation of such a particle makes the aforementioned
    measurements unpredictable.  Now, observation does not affect rest mass.
    Observation does not affect the speed of light.  Observation CAN affect
    velocity.  It is therefore obvious that the principle can be stated in terms
    of position and velocity, as well as position and momentum, since one is a
    partial function of the other, and the other variables are invariant under
    observation.

    Message: 66154
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: More Uncertainty
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 03:27:26

      From what I understand of the Uncertainty Principle, a particle does not
    even *have* both a definite position and a definite momentum.  That's not
    the same as saying that you simply cannot know what they are.

                                        =(O,O)=  Hoot!

    Message: 66156
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Stuff and Things
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 03:33:00

    To Roger Mann:

      That's because the plural thing-word "data" is becoming a singular
    stuff-word, so that data is stuff (with no plural), whereas previously, data
    were things.
      You can't make the same argument about other words, though.  The word
    "media" is still a plural thing-word (plural of medium, of course).

                                        =(O,O)=  Hoot!

    Message: 66157
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Middleton/Constituti
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 04:38:45

    "The constitution is and always a living and changing document, able to be
    amended and interpreted to fit the times at hand."
     I see that Mr. Middleton feels the same way about the constitution as he
    does the Bible. Interesting.
    (It's almost too bad that I have ceased debating with him, but I couldn't
    resist that comment. Carry on.)

    Message: 66158
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Up with what
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 07:07:02

    Up MINE? Up with what, your imagined potency, a gun to replace your shrunken
    male anatomy? The only true freedom is "won" in vulnerability and the only
    bravery is to stand for what you believe WITHOUT a COlt 44 in your hand. No
    gun-nut DARE call anyone brave enough to call you out for what you are a
    coward. The bravery is in speaking the truth that guns in the hands of the
    insecure and immature babies of our society are a major threat to the
    pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness and the time has come to amend the
    living COnstitution to protect American citizens from the toys of boys.

    Mike (Middleton)

    Message: 66159
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Time wasting
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 07:11:15

    I think trying to twist the Lebesgue Integral into an operation that will
    let you accrue Euclidean points as though they were the same thing as dx is
    what is a waste of time. I think trying to account for all that is by
    thinking about spoons and Not-spoons is a waste of time. You are correct,
    there is time being wasted here, and poorly defined terms here, and
    unverifiable assertions here... like the question you ask.

    Mike

    Message: 66160
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dichotomies
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 07:20:27

    It is rejecting dichotomies, power and weakness, right and wrong, us versus
    them, mine versus yours, my life versus your death, my GUN versus your bad
    attitude... it is rejecting those dichotomies that is the foundational
    philosophy to my statement that true power is in vulnerability and true
    supremacy is in humble service to others. I am you and you are me and we are
    all together, so lets drop our weapons and get busy helping each other. Then
    the "best of all possible worlds" (a world that is HERE NOW) will become
    manifest among us. Fear enslaves, those with such a level of fear and
    distrust that they want to own a weapon, are not free and are not liberated
    to be who they were created to be. We are only free when we give up our
    plans and schemes and self-defensiveness. As long as we try to be in
    control, we are slaves to our selfishness. As long as we buy into the
    illusion that we are the defenders or possessors of Truth, we remain in
    falsehood. We can not "dock" with the "starbase" to be "refueled" if our
    shields are up. So I recommend hope not guns, faith not feuds, and the love
    of the circle of humanity, side-by-side and co-equal all, rather than the
    dog-eat-dog ladder to heaven.

     .  _|_
     .   |
     .   |     Mike

    Message: 66161
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Middleton
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 07:36:23

    You are a coward yourself. You're too chicken to admit that changing
    the constitution is for only cowards benefits. The trembling plastic
    faced brain dead yellow bellies of this nation think that by changing teh
    rules, the bad guys will obey.
    Somehow you get this utopian feather up your ---- that the weather is going
    to be peachy, life is a dance in the strawberry field and men will
    help men build a Godly nation.

    I hope you live to see the day when the other nations get their chance
    to put you into their submission. You will, if you get the chance to
    experience what freedom is worth, gnash your teeth and wish to almighty
    God you had behaved and listened instead of doing all the talking.

    Insecure as you are, I doubt if that makes a difference to the way you
    view yourself; you keep treating others as beneath your dignity
    and incapable of reaching your self-acclaimed maturity and height of
    ultimate manhood that seems to be some form of obnoxious
    self-gratification you insist on vomiting all over anyone in favor
    of keeping a gun around.

    Stick it in your nose, Middleton, and to hell with your rosy pink manhood
    idealisms. Your breed of crap will float to the top, yello belly side up
    just like the others are doing. Gutless worthless breed of crap.

    Message: 66162
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 07:39:30

    Look who's talking.
    I appear on T.V. for 10 seconds to debate DeConcini's logic on his
    proposed bill and I get labeled by *** YOU *** as a dangerous,
    brick-throwing, hate-stunned gun-nut who isn't safe to be around.
    Ontop of being called a zealot, it is you who didn't take the 50
    seconds time out and ask yourself, well, gee, what did Mike say
    on TV, and what was his reason for being down at the protest
    for anyway?

    Well gee, since all you're interested in is making a mockery of something
    you don't understand, go shove it.

    Message: 66163
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Mike M. on Mike C.
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 08:25:50

    Both of you are putting your points of views very well, even with the name
    calling. Unfortunately, I agree with Carter and Cliff.
    Re: your ... "the time has come to amend the living Constitution to protect
    American citizens from the toys of boys!!!" .... if you believe this, then
    we should ban fast cars - maybe even cars period er? Booze? It kills in the
    hands of the wrong people too. How many people a years gets killed with a
    knife. Ah yes, and swimming pools - they are boy toys too arn't They? The
    list is a long one. You make good points, but where do we stop? Also, do we
    not need to have some kind of protection from the people that have guns and
    use them against us? Not the Mike Carter's, the Cliff and Sandy's - but the
    criminal element??? The people that WOULD have them anyway regardless of the
    law? The police can't protect us - and certainly the courts will not. Last
    but not least, why take away a Constitutional right when our freedom is
    being eroded so regularly almost daily?
    You seem to be under the impression that if there is a gun law, they will be
    no guns! We have a drug law ........! You get the picture. -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. If our Constitution isn't a 'living one' then what is? I was under the
    impression it was written for the people and by the people??!!

    Message: 66164
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: War!
    Subject: Mike Middleton
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 09:18:41

    All people that own weapons for whatever reason are "boys". YOu seem to
    forget human nature. Men come in all shapes and sizes, Colt made the
    equalizer. Without guns, or any weapons, the larger and fiercer among us
    would still bully the weaker and meeker. You are probably one of those that
    think that women shouldn't fight a rapist. Just lay there and suffer.
    Fighting back is wrong, right? Oh, but in your dream world, people wouldn't
    do that first. Guns make people beat each other up, rape women, etc?
    Even if there were no crime, and people were all good to each other, I would
    have guns. It's called a hobby. Target shooting. Intelligent people don't
    ban things that can be used for negative purposes, they just don't use them
    for such purposes.

    Message: 66165
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Name-calling
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 10:25:11

    Yes, your name calling PROVES you are not mature enough to handle a gun. One
    little post on one little BBS taking the position opposite yours and you
    explode with immaturity and insecurity. You should not be allowed within 10
    miles of a gun. You imagine that you are a part of the civiliam militia
    protecting my freedoms from the saber-toothed tigers, Lord Have Mercy! You
    will protect my freedoms from YOU? You keep hiding behind your big }i"gun"
    and I'll stand naked for what I believe in... I am not afraid to be called a
    coward by a bully with a gun. First you want to stick something up my ass,
    then up my nose... say, who is it with homosexual rape for brains?

    Mike

    Message: 66166
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Living Words
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 10:29:24

    Exactly my point. Thanks, Ann. The Constitution is a living document. Paul
    (Mr. Pot-shot) wishes to point out how that is similar to the Living Word of
    God. Well, there are similarities. Fast cars are banned. 55 in town, 65 on
    the freeway. I drive a VW. You are also right that the police are not the
    answer, It is the moral committment of individuals that determines the moral
    level of the society. I have the info on owls for you. I looked them up in
    the library. I will leave a separate post. I'll be gone next week, so keep
    pointing out how our rights are being eroded, not by gun control, but
    because of our ignorance and the greed of the powerful. See you in a week!

     .     /\\
     .    {@.@}
     .     )"(     Mike

    Message: 66167
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Owls
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 10:40:44

    For Ann O. What I found on Owls as a symbol...

    The Romans called owls "strix" which became the same word for witch. The
    Greeks thought the owl was sacred to Athene, the "Eye-Goddess." The
    Mesopotamians showed Her as an Owl or an Owl-eye and these images are
    common to finds in the Middle East, especially in the digs around Mari, the
    City of the Mother. The Owl was the totem of Anath, and other versions of
    the Triune Goddess of the Moon (death and rebirth who ruled the darkness).
    According to Christian legends, the Owl was one of the "Three Disobedient
    Sisters" (as they referred te the Triune Goddess). She was cursed to be a
    bird who could never look at the sun (we could discuss Jesus as Sun God if
    you want). One medieval name for owls was the "night hag;" a bird in witch
    form. (or vice versa) We still wee owls associated with witches in the pagan
    holiday, Holloween. The Owl was thought by those who clung to their faith in
    the Goddess to be a symbol for Sophia, Her Wisdom. It was thought in the
    superstitions of those people that if an owl could be killed and its heart
    pulled out and laid on the left breast of a sleeping virgin, then the woman
    would talk in her sleep and reveal all her secrets and dreams. This
    superstition is the origin of our phrase "a heart-to-heart talk" to mean
    women sharing secrets of love and sexual activities together in private.

    So a HOOT to Steve and a thanks to you for the Owl drawings!

    Mike

    Message: 66168
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 12:04:21

    Carter's homosexual threats are "squeky clean"?  I guess violence isn't as
    unacceptable to you as sex.  I wonder what Freud would have to say about
    that.

    Message: 66169
    Author: David Nixon
    Category: Question?
    Subject: New BBS User
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 14:19:35

    My name is David Nixon and I am a new user. I have just recently acquired a
    modem and have now gotten it to work. I was wondering about the services
    that are available on the bulletin boards and would appreciate any advice
    anyone would care to offer. Thank you
                                            David

    Message: 66170
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: pretty certain
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 15:56:31

      The definition I quoted was from the Penguin Dictionary of Science.  Here
    is part of another definition from Britannica: "Uncertainty principle, also
    called indeterminacy principle, discovered (1927) by the German physicist
    Werner Heisenberg, states that the position and the velocity of an object
    cannot both be measured exactly, at the same time, even in theory.
    The very concepts of exact position and exact velocity *together*, in fact,
    have no meaning in nature."

    Also -- "Any attempt to measure precisely the velocity of a subatomic
    particle, such as an electron, will knock it about in an unpredictable way,
    so that a simultaneous measurement of its position has no validity.  This
    result has nothing to do with inadequacies in the measuring instruments, the
    technique, or the observer; it arises out of the intimate connection in
    nature between particles and waves in the realm of subatomic dimensions."

    Message: 66171
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mike Middleton
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 15:59:12

    Visualize world peace.

    Message: 66172
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Annie
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 17:43:34

    Re:  "if you believe this, then we should ban fast cars"

    Gee Annie, does that include corvettes?  [smile]

    :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:  :-)  (-:

    Message: 66173
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hands/Mike
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 17:49:22

    Re:  "You are probably one of those that think that women shouldn't fight a
    rapist. Just lay there and suffer."

    No no! That's not what Mike said.  He said, "So I recommend hope not guns,
    faith not feuds, and the love of the circle of humanity"

    I would think a rapist might enjoy this kind of attitude in his victims.

    Message: 66174
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: steve/uncertainty
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 19:08:39

    Yes, it seems that "particles" exist in a  sort of probability cloud
    until "observed", at which time either the position or velocity
    becomes fixed.

    Message: 66175
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: paul's blessing
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 19:10:25

    Thanks, Paul, for permitting us to "carry on". BTW, the Constitution
    is not a God-inspired document. (Or do you believe THAT too ?)

    Message: 66176
    Author: $ Jeff Beck
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Mann
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 20:00:08

    Probablity cloud, shmrobability cloud!

    Message: 66177
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Free Spirit Computer
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 20:45:01

    Whach out for the guy, I purchased a used RS disk drive there once and the
    guy only warantied it for 48 hours, it fried a week later.
    If you want quality murcendise ( almost any thing you want used ) at a very
    reasonable price, try Electronics Materials Recovery on 31st ave and Thomas
    there in the phone book under used computers, dont both calling go down
    yourself, and I garanty you will end up spending money.They waranty their
    stuff unconditionaly for 30 days. They are extremly helpful if you go down
    in person. They even have used parts that fit my obsolete TRS 80 COCO3.
    Believe me you'll get a better deal there, but thats just my opinion because
    they treated me like a real customer not like a kid with a toy.
    See you later
                  THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66178
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Nixon/New User
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 21:06:11

      We're a friendly, though argumentative, bunch here.  I think you'll like
    us.  If not, then try the ther systems command from the main menu, and
    get a list of a *lot* of local BBSs to try.  There's something there for
    everybody (like Trinity, with lots of religious discussions, or
    Pascalaholics Anonymous, for Borland techies, to name a couple that I
    haunt).
      Most of these are *free* *free* *free*, and worth every penny of it, if
    not more.
      Apollo here has [S]pecial [I]nterest [G]roups with specialized discussions
    in various fields.  You'll have to $ign up for access to those.  Note that
    *many* people think it's worth the price -- whenever you see a message
    posted by someone with a dollar-sign in his name, he's paid.
      Have fun!

                                =(O,O)=  Hoot!

    Message: 66179
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Drug Talk
    Subject: Melissa's drugs
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 22:01:57

    What kind and how much of 'em are you taking?

    I haven't made any threats here or anywhere else.

    What's with this homosexual diatribe?

    Why does every word you spew have to have a dirty connection
    with human reproductive organs? Freud says that these hangups
    are the result of too little attention being paid to the perpetrator.

    You know, drugs will not only get you messed up like this, but they'll
    also cost you a bunch.

    Message: 66180
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Middelton's Constit-
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 22:09:11

    Middelton here expouses changing the constitution. I'll bet he hasn't read
    it. In fact, if he was even partially informed, he'd realize a lot of
    this rhetoric he's belching is already come to pass.
    Sure, let's change the constitution. Lemme see. This is an election
    year in Arizona..so, since we have such a perfect government, let's
    ban the 1st ammendment, the second too and do away with the bill
    of rights...after all, we can't have the sleezo citizens barking up
    trees and disturbing the tranquility around here now can we?

    While we're at it, anyone who attempts to go .00001 miles / hour over
    the speedlimit will be faced with confiscation of the vehicle. After all,
    too many motorists die because of the insecure and immature idiots behind
    the wheel out there. If you can't drive under the limit you're not mature
    enough to own a car. Also, since we're changing the constitution around
    like our Great God Mike Middelton preaches, let's remove the right to
    own private property..hey..just think of all the housing problems we'll
    solve! That way, if some immature, insecure person decides to use
    their VCR too loudly on Sunday we can confiscate it and restore the
    ultimate tranquility in our ultimate utopian government controlling
    the perfect society.

    We'll have to ban everything that isn't mandatory.

    Message: 66181
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Get-Togethers (GTs)
    Subject: GUN GT
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 22:48:27

    Cliff, Sandy, Mike (C) and I were there... where were Peter P., Traci S.,
    Nick, and the rest of you??

    Message: 66182
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: bob(I think)
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 22:53:16

    Actually, some rapists get mad if a woman jsut lays there "dead".  Part of
    the thrill for some rapists is seeing their victim be scared or scream.

    Message: 66183
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 06/02/90  Time: 23:01:00

    "feather up your butt"  "put you into their submission"
    "mastubatory self-gratification you insist on ejaculating all over anyone"
    "Stick it in your nose"  "go shove it."

    These are some choice examples of your sexual hostility, taken out of
    context, from messages to myself and Middleton.
    I think I'm going to keep them; maybe use them in a story...
    But at least I'll put it on the cosmos sig.

    Message: 66184
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: J.Cummings/german
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 00:14:25

    Es freut mich echt einen menschen zu sehen der noch deutch spricht. Du
    brauchst nicht so formal zu sein, ich denke wir koennen uns dutzen. Dein
    deutsch ist nicht schlecht fuer einen amerikaner. Mein deutsch wird von tag
    zu tag schlechter. Ich merke das besonders wenn ich mit meinen eltern in
    deutschland an telephon spreche. I muss echt nachdenken bei manchen worten.
    Ich war das letzte mal 1987 in detschland, meine oma war am sterben, und die
    US ARMY hat mich kostenfrei nach detschland geflogen. Wenn es dir nichts
    asmach wuerde ich gerne unsere unterhaltungen in deutsch ausfueren. Ich
    kanns weisgotlich gebrauchen. Wenn du gerne deutsche zeitungen lesen wilst,
    ich habe genug von dennen. Die sind schon einpaar monate alt, aber ich lese
    sie trostdem gerne. Wenn du irgendwelche fragen ueber deutschland hast, ich
    spreche alle zwei wochen mit meinen eltern die in deutschland wohnen( meine
    eltern wohnenin Trier). Ich habe so manches erfahren das man hier nicht in
    denn zeitungen liest. Ich muss jetzt schluss machen da ich keine zeit mehre
    habe. Tschuess
                   Jeff Lochansky

    Message: 66185
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Roger Mann
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 04:44:17

    "BTW, the Constitution is not a God-inspired document."
     According to you and Middleton, neither is the Bible. What's the
    difference, in your economy?

    Message: 66186
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Melissa
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 06:17:14

    Yes, they're taken *way* out of context..in fact so far out that
    I almost went out of my way in the real context to avoid making them
    sound like hostile threats.

    But you're so hell bent on hating you can't see that.

    "At least I'll put it on the cosmos SIG"

    (1) You already re-posted the material

    (2) None of the material could ever be classified as foul, profane
        or slang. In fact, Webster's Deluxe second edition has some pretty
        graphic ways of describing some of the words you seem to be
        incapable of understanding their meaning. I recommend it..it's
        essential reading before you go blasting off at the mouth.

    [s]kip activated, I grow tired of your meaningless wretching.

    Message: 66187
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Here and now
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 06:41:19

    Last night I received a call from a good friend who advised me that
    the Bureau of Alcohol, Tabacco and firearms is taking steps towards
    banning certain types of ammunition.
    I know for some of you this is very good news.
    We won't bother wondering why at this point..just that it is important
    to listen to what each side on these matters say.
    One side wishes the Constitution to be changed daily without regard to
    its sanctity or what it really stands for. The other wishes the
    Constitution to remain unchanged.
    Well, I tell you what. The legislatures of each State in this Union have
    slowly been eroding at those rights of yours. You no longer have them.
    Why? Because nobody thought it would be a big deal...the people working
    on the laws figured the law they were passing was for the good of the
    people...
    We all really want peace to be in our lives. We all hope for better times
    and treasure the times like that in our past.
    Unfortunately there is the criminal element in our Cities, suburbs, schools
    and work places. It's inescapable. None of us wants to be a victim..
    nobody here wants to get mugged or raped or any dozen things that can
    and might someday happen. It's truly annoying to live in these times
    with such fantastic potential to achieve in so many areas...and be
    threatened daily..intimidated by gangs, drugs, dispair.
    So what's happening is we're passing so many laws to "prevent" and put
    a "stop to" these threats and potential hazards. (CONT)

    Message: 66188
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cont / Last
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 06:48:46

    We are passing bills, laws and enacting special stuff like that at a record
    pace. Have any of you , all arguments aside, really taken a few minutes
    out to look and see how many of these bills are going through?
    Have you had the time to read them all? I'm telling you, I haven't
    read them all and the ones I have read make me wonder.
    This **WILL** affect you. Maybe not today..tomorrow or even the
    next day. When it does, it will be all at once and you will feel like you
    are being singled out..because you really are.

    If there's anything you remember, remember that which I have just said.
    You're being singled out. Not just me and my guns, but everyone of you
    is being singled out. Separately. Bill by bill, right by right..State by
    state. It will be a laughing matter until it's your turn. I hope you
    are prepared.
    It wont be a gun fight. It wont be a fist fight...no, nothing like that...
    those are too intimate..too honest. It'll be when the cards are so
    stacked against you...all the marbles will be in their hands. It's true.
    You wont know who is your friend, who's your enemy. But you will know
    the fact you've lost your freedom and it will be too late to object because
    you, at that moment, will be a criminal.

    .....>> SAY GOODBYE TO THE BILL OF RIGHTS <<

    Message: 66189
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike M.
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 08:49:06

            No gun in my hand you yellow bellied traitor to freedom.  The POINT
    was if you let them (the Government) change one part of the Constitution,
    what is stopping them from changing it all?  Taking away ALL our freedoms??
    Only an ignorant idiot would totally disarm the people.

            If you believe what you say, why don't you move to China...  No one
    there ever gets killed....now do they?    We FREE Americans don't want your
    kind!

            Being a Christian and a Vet, you make me SICK!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66190
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mizz Dee
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 09:07:27

            Gee, I was away yesterday and DID not see those 'Squeaky clean'
    words you are speaking of till JUST NOW!   I agree with Mike C. in the basic
    facts...but I am not happy with his choice of wording.  I feel I am part to
    blame as I said... "Up Yours" to Mike M. and then Middleton turned it into a
    SEX insult argument. (see Middleton's post # 66158, 1st and 2nd line) Mike
    Carter then countered that...and you know the rest.

            Next time I will tell Mike Middleton, I ment 'Up his nose with a
    rubber hose' and maybe he will keep his perverted mind in check.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66191
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Squeaky Clean
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 09:32:55

            PLEASE 'try' and keep sexual insults off this PUBlic board.
    I know in todays 'Living' world, it is all but too easy to let such things
    slip out.  I am guilty of this myself, since I am only human... SysOps are
    *NOT* Gods, and we make mistakes!

                    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=* <--- sometimes Naughty

    Message: 66192
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: GUNS?
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 10:07:23

            If I REALLY thought banning weapons would make ALL crime vanish, and
    big bullies would not take over by pushing smaller people around... I would
    consider it! Better yet, I would support it!  However, we are humans, and
    humans have been given free will by God to choose for ourselves the path we
    will follow.  There were criminals before there were guns...  so this proves
    guns did not invent criminals.  What guns have done, is it has given big and
    small an EQUAL chance at defending themselves from such bullies who have
    chosen a path of shortcuts.  Being educated on its use does NOT cause crime,
    but may prevent a crime.  The key word here is 'educated', not 'banned' or
    being kept 'ignorant' about self defense.  I do believe if you WISH to own a
    weapon of anysort, you should be educated correctly in its use.  If you
    THINK you do not need this education, them maybe a GUN is not for you.

            Then there is SPORTS!  We are not all Neanderthals, thus we all
    can't play 'football' or even 'baseball'.   I myself have never played them
    games well, nor do I enjoy watching them.  I however do like shooting at
    NON-Living targets.  I don't even like to hunt!  People like Middleton want
    to make this sport a CRIME!  Yet people are injured EVERY day playing school
    football and baseball.  Heck, people have even been killed playng golf!
    If you ban one, ban them all!  Let's all sit around doing NOTHING!

            Yes, I have my EXPERT diploma in weapons handling.  You will never
    get HURT around me by IGNORANCE if I should happen to be carring a weapon.
                            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66193
    Author: $ Bill Burkett
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff/Mike C.
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 10:38:22

            I see you've already addressed this issue, but...
            Cliff, I'm sorry to complain again, but I really must
    protest the language contained Mike Carter's post number 66161.
    Melissa has already outlined the specifics in her 66183.  His
    continued references to matters of a homo- or autoerotic nature
    are clearly in violation of the precepts you've espoused for the
    public [B]ulletin Board.  Additionally, I believe this message,
    and others recently posted by Mr. Carter, violate Apollo
    Commandments 4, 10 and, by all standards of common public
    decency, 2.
            Others have been publicly censured for such activity.  Is
    Mr. Carter, for some reason, going to be allowed to continue this
    behavior, Cliff?  Does virtually anything go on the [B]ulletin
    Board now?
            If so, this is a sad day for Apollo.

    Message: 66194
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Bill B.
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 10:56:30

            I guess I did not address it enough, Bill?   As you SHOULD know, I
    have not kicked ANYONE off Apollo for any reason in many years.  I have
    tried to get the users themselves to correct their own posts where they
    can.  I will ASK Mr MIKE Carter to use the UIP (Up-Date-in-Place) cmd, and
    reword his post.  I think his post had value, but he could have picked a few
    more accptable words.  I like to think MOST of us on Apollo are adults...
    and we should act as such.   Again I am sorry Bill!

            Mike...will you PLEASE re-read your posts mentioned by Bill and
    do your own fix?  How does the PHAntom Zone sound for a summer visit if you
    don't?  You think it is HOT in Phoenix.....

            Mizz Dee....  Will your outline of Mike's post be not so graphic if
    he does fix it.  I have always been against the repeating of said
    crimes(sic) in follow up posts....   It just seems silly to repeat what one
    finds objectionable.

            There are times I love being a SysOp..then there are times I don't!

                                    clif-

    P.S.  NO hard feelings by ANYONE...please!

                    Forgive us Bill, for we have sinned!

    Message: 66195
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Apollo Tips & Tricks
    Subject: UIP cmd
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 11:06:46

            In that last post I mentioned the  cmd... Up-Date-in-PLACE
    This is for when you find an error, such as spelling or grammar, you can fix
    it with out getting the post out of order.  It Saves it in the same place
    with the same message number.  This CMD is ONLY available for $tatus members
    however.  At one time ALL users could use this CMD, but we had some
    NON-Members come in and rewrite their posts form an innocent message, and
    after I had read it and gone on, would come back and write in garbage,
    profanity and other such filth....thinking it would not have to pass under
    my eyes again.   Well, they lost that cmd, and for that I APOLLO-gize to you
    other non-members who would never do such things.

            The [U]pdate cmd can be used by all...but that brings the post to
    the front of the line again.

            Any questions?

                            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66196
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Reasonable gun cont.
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 12:38:23

    So when faced with the suggestion of reaonable gun control and the facts
    about the US Constitution, that it is a living document via amendment and
    judicial intrepretation, you reply by going off the deep end and extend the
    position of your opponent to the absurd? We said that guns should not be in
    the hands of the insecure or immature, but then the question became, "How do
    we tell?" Interesting that you stepped up an volunteered to be the model for
    us of both traits. Reasonable gun control is needed exactly because we are
    not safe as a society when people can not tell the difference between
    playing a VCR too loudly, going .0000001 miles per hour over the speed
    limit, and defending their version of "rightness" by pulling a trigger and
    blowing someone away. Reasonable gun control is needed just because the
    legitamate recreational use of guns by mature and secure people is being
    seriously threatened by hot-tempered idiots who love guns more than common
    sense. Thank you for the offer to model for us the EXACT type of person who
    should not ever own a gun, at least not until they grow up. You can not hide
    yourself behind your gun, nor your distorted view of the Constitution, we
    see you. We see right through you.

    Mike

    Message: 66197
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gold Tablets
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 12:41:39

    You tell us the difference in the BIble and the Constitution, Paul. You
    brought it up. Tell us how they are different... I never heard God in the
    Constitution, but I never heard Jefferson in the Bible, either. Have you
    ever heard anyone speaking a Living Word to you from either?

    Mike

    Message: 66198
    Author: Mike Middleton
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: "They"
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 12:51:14

    So who do you think "THEY" are, Mr. American Christian Vet? THe Constitution
    has been changed several times, both by amendment, and mostly by judicial
    intrepretation. The Constitution is a living document, not cast into stone.
    If gun nuts want to continue using one small part of it to self-justify a
    dangerous and pointless hobby, then yes, it may be time to consider changing
    that part of the Constitution. Nothing un-American about that. I'd rather
    see us move toward reasonable gun control, but fanatics may preclude such a
    course. Freedom comes when a Christian dies to his own plans and schemes and
    fears and hates and prejudices and allows God to make him free in Christ.
    The more tightly a person clings to a personal cause or the defense of self,
    the more enslaved that person is. It should make you sick, sick enough of
    your SELF to die with Christ on the Cross that is the Crown of true Freedom.
    You may want me to move to China, but this is America and here is where I
    am, so here is where I stand for what I believe. The Holy Spirit is moving
    in CHina and among Chinese Christians, too. The self-righteous and fearful
    there do not like it either. I think it makes the power-broker types in
    China sick, too. Maybe you can write to the Chinese Gun Lovers and share
    stories about tanks running over unarmed peace lovers. It might be healing
    for you to know that you are not alone in your disease.

    Mike

    Message: 66199
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: last few
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 13:09:44

            What a JERK!  You can't even talk to this guy without him calling
    you a 'Gun-Nut'...just because I had TRAINING with the tool.  Telling me
    because I have a sport it is a 'disease'...  He tells me I am hiding behind
    a gun, even after I told him I was not.   He talks about Christ like he was
    a Christian...  he is not a Christian...he is a joke! A coward....  A trator
    to realistic freedom.  And worse of all...if he believes this crap about if
    guns were controlled...bad guys would not have them...then he is a bigger
    fool then I can ever label him as.  If they can smuggle in TONs of drugs,
    why not guns?   If I as a lowly airospace machinest can make a gun in my
    little shop....what will stop the DRUG Lords who happen to own much bigger
    shops from making their own weapons (guns). Restrictive LAWs only hurt the
    honest people.

            Middleton, go to China....  they want jerks like you as sheep!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66200
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gun Laws
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 13:23:33

            I lived in New York for several years... One of the toughest gun
    control law states there is.  Well, I owned MORE hand guns when I lived
    there then I do here.  They were very easy to get in the underground.
    Funny, there is more crime there per capita then there is where guns are
    legal.  Bad guys don't fear breaking into homes there as they can almost
    bet, the home owner won't be facing them with a gun.

            Criminals favor gun control.... is there something you want to tell
    us Mr. Middleton?

    FACT:  In 1967, Hawaii enacted a tough gun law.  In the five years
    following, robbery was UP 180%, murder was up 183%, and rape skyrocketed
    326%!

    The four contries with the highest gun ownership have the lowest crime
    rates. These countries are Switzerland, Israel, Denmark and Finland.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66201
    Author: $ Melissa Dee
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Cliff on Carter
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 13:39:55

    I was merely repeating his statements to attract your attention.  I know he
    is a friend of yours and you believe in his point of view rather than
    mine(even though you don't know what that is).  But I only wanted you to be
    fair.  I can debate with people without throwing insults and don't believe i
    have voilated any of the rules on the public board.  I am insulted that he
    is allowed to use this form of "arguement" on here and get away with it.

    Message: 66202
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: M.Middleton/66198
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 14:07:05

    I'm sorry I have to get in on this one. Where do you get of calling a sport
    that millions of people enjoy a quote * dangerous and pointless hobby *
    I agree with cliff, that if you are trained and educated on the use of a
    weapon, there is no reason except for a true accident for anybody to get
    hurt.
    Lots of poeple out there use cars to run somebody down, do you want to ban
    them to? That is a sport too, if I understand it correctly. How about
    baseball, how many people get killed because they are bashed over the head
    with a baseball bat. thats a sport, you want to ban that also, because you
    might find it " dangerous and pointless "? I think cliff is right , yellow
    bellied idiots like you should move to China, not Russia mind you , because
    they are trying to archive freedom and fools like you might spoil it for
    them if you carried your views over there. Thats all, I've got to say to
    you.

    Long live the NRA
                      THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66203
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dee Re:66201
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 14:19:40

    Thank you for your support Miz Dee...  Yes, Mike is a friend of mine, but no
    less there is a letter waiting (RAM-Gram) for Mr Carter on this problem you
    speak of.  He is not 'getting away with it' as you suggest.  I honestly was
    not on Apollo for a day and I did not see the post in question till this
    morning.  Give me a break, Mike has got to log in to see my letter and make
    the fixes himself.  I give all $tatus users that chance...where I can.
            Yes, I agree with Mike on the GUN issue, and I am not sure what your
    view is on this subject...but I have not seen anything that I consider
    negative.  I don't understand your comment about Mike on TV and about 'Brick
    Throwing'. (I knew it was in jest since I KNOW Mike)  Between you two, I am
    caught in the middle....  but rest assured, any complaint by you or Bill is
    not being ignored!   SysOp's honor!

            Now, where is Mr. Carter?  Dang the Fang anyway!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66204
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: War!
    Subject: Middleton
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 14:47:13

            Yes, the Constitution has been amended, but NEVER to remove a
    'Right' or a 'Freedom'.  It was amended to enhance the rights and equal
    freedoms for ALL.

            You may not understand, but if you try to remove my 'freedom of
    Religion' or 'Freedom of Speech', I am going to get just as *MAD* and fight
    just as hard.

            You ask who was 'Them'... well, to be honest, 'them' is people like
    you who try to shove their morals and likes and dislikes down on the rest of
    us PEOPLE, like God appointed you or something.  Note that I am not
    wanting to remove any of your rights from the Consitution, it is you who are
    setting yourself up as judge wanting my rights removed or modified.
    You are the 'Righteous Invader' into the Constitution that works and is the
    best in the WORLD!  Your ideals may sound nice like flowers, but is in
    reality unworkable because people are people (for lack of better words)

            Get out your copy of the BILL of Rights and start reading:
    Congress shall make no law.....
            And:
    the right of the people to KEEP and bear arms shall NOT be INFRINGED.
                            Keep going......

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66205
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike M. on owls
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 14:55:10

    Thanks for the owl message. Very interesting. However, I drew them because I
    extremely like owls, plus, they were fairly easy to draw using the keyboard.
    Ha ha. Real deep ain't I? -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66206
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bobby on Vette
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 14:56:25

    Ban the Corvette? Heavens NO! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66207
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: On Gun owning
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 15:03:02

    Pardon me, but isn't being able to own guns one of the things that make us
    Americans? How many other countries are the people able to own them?
    England? No. France? I don't know, but I doubt there's many. Why take this
    right away from us and put us in the same category as the rest of them?
    Besides, we may need them someday to fight our very own government! Lets
    keep them a wee bit afraid of us least they go against us. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66208
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliffy
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 15:08:24

    If you are gonna throw Mike Carter in the Zone, will you throw Miz Dee in
    with him (sorry Melissa!) and then let me in too? I don't want to miss this!
    Ha ha. Grin. Snicker. Smile <------- those words are so you'll all know I'm
    kidding!! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66209
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mike M. on China
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 15:11:16

    The reason they ran over those peace lovers with tanks is because the
    Chinese populace isn't allowed to own guns and they REALLY do need them for
    protection! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66210
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Middleton
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 17:08:54

    I remember my teenage years when I was so self-righteous that I spoke
    all truth , knew all knowledge and none could tell me otherwise.
    Fortunately I have left that ailment of raging hormones and have experienced
    life a day at a time. Through these years I've come{to understand some
    things...one of them being that I can tell when someone hides behind his
    religion and locks his eyes and ears out to anyone.
    WHat Middleton needs he can't get here. Though he may beg for it, this
    world is so messed up right now he'll probably never get it.
    But that's o.k. His particular brand of hate and despise cloaked over
    in a thinly veiled disguise of holier-than-thou rhetoric is not unlike
    much of what has been a key ingredient in our local politico.

    I actually really do hope that he and people like him get what they're
    begging for. I at least wont be a part of it. Heh heh. I have that
    ground well painted, covered and seasoned. I wont be there to say
    "I told you so" either. Waste of time. It's better to stay ahead
    and let them scramble their own miserable way up.
    Heh heh. Don't worry Mikey, you'll reap what you're seeding..that's fer
    sure.

    Message: 66211
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: War!
    Subject: Wretching
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 17:20:58

    ONly because Cliff has asked me as a friend have I re-edited any
    of my posts. You two squeamish neer-do-wells are so hypocritic the
    fake halo around your head is about to set fire to your wig.
    Nevertheless...
    You can bet , **guaranteed** I'll be watching yer verbiage real close
    and with that way-out-in-left-field-context eye as well. Mizzy Dee is
    not only incapable of opening communication with someone in a non-hostile
    manner , she's also incapable of responding to the posts. Instead she
    gives up and attcks anything but the issue. That's O.K. too. It's a
    guaranteed Constitutional right. You have the right to wretch.

    Mr Burkett only tarts up when someone offends his opinion. Needless to
    say I don't wish to offend anyone with *real* profanity...but this
    milk and toasties with honey bit is gonna make me puke all over your
    cream-n-tarts world here soon.
    It's ** T O U G H ** you can't stand my opinions...and this just gives
    me more fuel to be that salt in your festering wound.
    Do  yourself a favor, Bill, [S]kip my posts.

    Message: 66212
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: The SYSOP Speaks
    Subject: Hard feelings
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 17:49:52

            I was HOPING there would be NO 'hard feelings'....  I value all
    posts even when I am NOT in agreement, so I would rather see Dee and Bill
    not [S]kip Mike C's posts and vise-a-verse-a (sp)

            I don't think Bill disagreed with Carters opinion on weapons, but
    just how it was said.  (Correct me if I am wrong, Bill?)

            I am confused on the Dee/Mike C. thing...  somehow I think it was a
    misunderstanding.

            Thank you Mike, for fixing your posts.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66213
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Dee
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 17:56:09

            Well, you certainly have some good material for a new story. But
    PLEASE post it in the COSmos SIG.

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66214
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Estonia
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 18:30:41

            I am an Estonian (Kolostow), my great grandparents were Christians
    as I am.  They however were unarmed and murdered.  Where does the fault lie
    I often ask myself.  Most likely because they listened to idiots like
    Middleton who think laying down weapons bring about peace and freedom.
    Yes, the reds shot and killed all the women and children as well. Not one of
    them was able to defend themselves and only my Grandpa escaped as he was not
    in the village the day of the massacre.  When I hear stupid people speak of
    "standing there naked" and not fighting for liberty and life, it makes me so
    angry inside, it hurts.

            If M.M. believes this is what he wants for himself, fine, let him
    stand there and watch his wife and kids get raped and murdered.  I don't
    care since he don't care.  Now get your tail to China and tell the
    Communist Government you are a 'Freedom Fighter without a weapon'.  Stand
    there in front of their tanks with your false doctrine, and.......

                                            SQUISH!

    Message: 66215
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Guns in other countr
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 20:55:12

    Somebody, I think Ann stated that america is the only country where you can
    own guns, not quite true.
    You can own a firearm in several countries of the world. Let me inform you
    all about which ones, if you are interested that is.
    Germany: You may own a firearm if and there are several conditions
             1. You can prove you need one such as  You are a buissness man
                that carries a lot of cash.
             2. you are a licenced hunter ( such require a lot of education
               and you have to pass a test administered by the state )
             3. you are a licenced gun collector ( you will have trouble
                obtaining amunition since you need a licence for that to )

    France:  The same conditions as in germany apply there to except for
             Veterans of wars, which can keep the weapon they had in service

    Swiss:   All male citizens are part of a military reserve, and are
             permanantly issued weapons and amunition.

    England: You may own a weapon if you are a licenced hunter or gun collector.

    Norway:  No major restrictions aplly here if that hasnt changed since I was
             last there.
    Netherlands: From what I understand all you need there is a licence.
    well I hope that was interesting enough   THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66216
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: War!
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 21:22:35

    What is the best weapon for self defense...

    s

    Message: 66217
    Author: $ Beauregard Dog
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: last
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 22:29:55

    From what I have been told, a good double-action revolver is the best. Least
    likely to jam or have problems, reliable, etc.  Something that won't fail in
    a pinch (if you take reasonable care of it).

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit Chat

    Subject:Bob T.

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:Caffeine and Nicotine babies are also a big problem, much bigger than
     2:cocaine babies.
     3:
     4:Cocaine is not, in reality, a big problem but due to "our current drug war"
     5:it is being blown way out of proportion.
     6:
     7:Substitute the word, 'DRUG' for Communism and/or Jew and you will begin to
     8:understand what is really happening.
     9:
    10:                                        Rod
    11:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 66218

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:R66218

    Message: 66218
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob T.
    Date: 06/03/90  Time: 23:30:19

    Caffeine and Nicotine babies are also a big problem, much bigger than
    cocaine babies.

    Cocaine is not, in reality, a big problem but due to "our current drug war"
    it is being blown way out of proportion.

    Substitute the word, 'DRUG' for Communism and/or Jew and you will begin to
    understand what is really happening.

                                            Rod

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