### Apollo BBS Archive - June 5 - 6, 1990

    End of the Universe Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 1318
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Piss on it!
    Subject: On what, this SIG!
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 21:50:20

            Dead as dead can be............   You guys had better not grip one
    word when I send this waste of space to the SIG junkyard in the sky!

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 1319
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Deep Doo Doo!
    Subject: Dog Shit!
    Date: 06/06/90  Time: 01:48:38

    Don't pollute the sky, the earth is the junkyard.

    Public & Free Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 66247
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: max/germany
    Date: 06/04/90  Time: 22:28:18

    Thanks for sharing that with us,Jeff. I think we need to think about
    successful policies used in other countries in order to solve this
    very nasty problem. I agree that the US has a great deal of
    chutzpah in dealing with difficult and intractable problems. I think
    if the people of the US get fed up with more and more government controls
    in order to stamp out drugs, we might just try something completely
    different.

    Message: 66248
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: cliff/guns
    Date: 06/04/90  Time: 22:30:31

    I do have my own feelings about guns, but I think that intelligent and
    educated use of these nasty things is a good thing.

    Message: 66249
    Author: $ Roger Mann
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: foreign veterans
    Date: 06/04/90  Time: 22:32:29

    Citizens of other countries residing in the US were eligible for the
    draft, if I remember correctly.

    Message: 66250
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hans Glans
    Date: 06/04/90  Time: 23:17:27

    So, you think the military teaches civilian law, in this case Arizona law?
    Do you think they train you how to get away withOUT using a weapon?  How to
    spot and avoid a JDLR?

    Even police training is very, very poor.  People have a false sense of
    security, and the only reason they win more gun fights then they lose, is
    the bad guys are even worse shots.  Just because some bad guys use autos and
    AR-15s, don't mean they can hit a thing.  I have seen people who thought
    they were trained, MISS a man sized target at 50 yards with an AR-15 carbine
    rifle (assault weapon by the media) and a whole magazine of 223 ammo.  Sandy
    could take that target out with one shot from her 4 inch revolver.

            If I could get all the users on Apollo who own a weapon, out to the
    range for the BASIC Gun & Law class, and the Intermediate Hand Gun class, I
    would be very happy.  I myself have gone though the Basic, Intermediate,
    Advanced, and Expert.  I graduated Intermediate and Advanced with 'High
    Distinction' and graduated Expert with a good score...  but, not good enough
    to satisfy myself!  I am going to re-take the course, till *I* am happy.
    Then I will go on for the 'Masters' class, and if invited, 'Distinguished
    Masters'.

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66251
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Apollo Tips & Tricks
    Subject: Bob T. on MAsX
    Date: 06/04/90  Time: 23:40:20

            Bob, I fixed your SUBJECT line on your post where you had spelled
    MAX as MAsX.  It is easy for any user to fix their own SUBJECT line in the
    header by just using the [E]dit cmd.  When it askes what LINE Number? Just
    answer it with a 0   (That was the NUMBER 'ZERO').  Or you can use the
    [R]eplace Line cmd, as in [R][0].

            Users should also learn how to use the [B]reak line and [F]ill lines
    cmd.  If a line becomes to full to [E]dit, just [B]reak that line at any
    point you wish.  Then when done, you can tell the editor to [F]ill the lines
    from Line number ? to Line number ? and it will pack the lines to their full
    correct length without breaking any words in half. [F]ill should be used
    from the beginning of a paragraph (line #?) to the end of that paragraph
    (line #?).

            Non-$tatus users should note the [F]ill & [B]reak cmd is not listed
    in the [H]elp file as we found the occasional user is only confused by
    these, but they are there just the same if you call up the cmd.

            I hope these TIPs will help someone.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*  Not as unfriendly as some think!

    Message: 66252
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: ZAK?
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 00:01:11

          Zak, you yellow bellied television nut!  Go back to MTV.

    Message: 66253
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: In search of
    Subject: Guns in other lands
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 00:39:25

    Australia permits its populace to own certain types of guns.
    I suspect that the laws in effect in England are much like the ones
    I encountered in Australia.
    The laws pertaining to ownership of firearms are fairly strict and
    somewhat stupid at the same time. For example, I must have a written
    document of permission from owners of land not less than 100 acres a piece
    stating my access to fire a weapon upon their property. (3) Are generally
    required. Once you have the letters, you take them to the local Cop Shop
    and show them off. At that point they issue a permit to buy. When you
    have purchased the gun you take it back to the Cop Shop. There they
    inspect it and verify your letters.
    If you're lucky as I was, they'll take your word for it and issue a
    temporary permit. In the mail a few weeks later after a background check
    you will be issued a Fire Arms License. This license is only good for
    *** RIM FIRE *** weapons and does NOT cover any handguns of any sort.
    Pellet guns require a membership to a local club. It's easier to get
    your firearms license than it is to get a airgun permit.
    Pistols. You must be over 21 to start with, been a member of a local
    pistol club (big time bucks) for three years before they will let you
    remove the pistol from the CLUB BUILDING. (WHere it's stored).
    Same permits if you take it off the building premesis..you must have
    a regular firearms license to shoot it on "CROWN LAND".
    If at any point during your life you do something that brings you in
    conflict with de Kaper Kops, they can take your license & guns away.

    Message: 66254
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: cont from last
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 00:50:59

    When I received my license it was a big day. I was 16 back then
    and had just gotten my license to ride a motorcycle.
    The "big" thing about it was that it was presented to you, (obtaining
    a firearms license) in such a negative, prohibitive and iron fisted
    way that you were made to believe not only were you a criminal for wanting
    one, but it's impossible to get.
    The days spent riding into the middle of nowhere on that kawasaki 250
    with the rifle wrapped in a heavy burlap sack are cherishable.
    I look back at reading all of those restrictions and laws and such about
    transporting the weapon etc. You'd think they were afraid you might
    actually put a bullet (heaven forbid you owning some) in the chamber
    and actually fire it less than 2 miles from any road. Read that carefully..
    **ANY** road. I suspect they're lax on that but they technically can get
    you if you're within 2 miles of a pig trail.
    Back then, I was visited by de Kaper Koppers twice concerning the weapon.
    The first time was a routine let's-swing-by-the-gun-freak-yanks-place-and
    see-his-cannon check-up. I suppose they were afraid I might have modified
    the single shot, bolt-action, pull the pin back manually action into
    a select-fire, fully automatic 50 calibre laser sighted weapons system.
    Only it was a Slazenger (yep, the tennis raquet people) Lithgow .22 LR.
    18inch barrel, somewhat worn. 2nd time was for transferring ownership to
    my friend before we left for the U.S. They had to make sure the serial
    numbers matched on each of our licenses and sign the tranfer slip.
    Otherwise it was an illegal transfer of a firearm...prison time.

    Message: 66255
    Author: $ Steve MacGregor
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/Constitution
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 01:35:55

      Amendments to the Constitution are...kept or overturned on the basis of
    their constitutionality?
      No.  They're kept on the basis of their being voted upon and passed.
      Depending on your point of view, all ammendments are unstitutional, or all
    are constitutional.
      Explanation:  before being passed, it should be unconstitutional, or why
    bother?  And after being passed it *is* constitutional, ipso facto.

                                             =(O,O)=  Hoot!

    Message: 66256
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Question?
    Subject: Cliff
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 04:44:17

     Let me ask you an honest question Cliff. I would really like your input,
    information and opinion-wise on this. Really two questions.
     1. From the initial expense of purchasing a fairly good handgun to the
    minimum of courses necessary to be proficient in the handling of said weapon
    for personal protection, (not to a point of expert or instructor), what
    would be the approximate total cost to become an efficient, safe gun owner?
     2. What is the cost effectiveness of such an expense for a 64 year old man
    who rarely if ever inhabits locales where such protection would be
    considered necessary? By that, I mean a person who doesn't go to bars, stays
    away from known trouble areas, (South Phoenix, gang active areas, etc.)? In
    short, would such an expense be worth the cost in time and money?
     Thanks for the answers.

    Message: 66257
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Cliff on Roger
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 04:47:04

     I have noticed a definite trend toward utter stupidity in Roger's messages
    lately. I think they coincide with the period since he has fallen under the
    spell of the Middleton error(s).

    Message: 66258
    Author: Hans Glans
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: 66256
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 07:21:26

    They just gave 29 million to a kid who got AIDS because of a doctors
    mistake. Yet, someone isn't worth 500-600 dollars for a decent guna and a
    couple handling classes...and maybe 100 bucks for shooting practice.

    s

    Message: 66259
    Author: $ Gary Jones
    Category: My Dinner with...
    Subject: Apollo's users
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 09:39:58

    You are all a very interesting bunch od eccentrics (myself included) and I
    suppose that's what makes this board so interesting.  I still cannot figure
    out why all the name calling tho.....

    IMHO ->

    This board was a lot better off when Cliff enforced the rules against
    profanity and sexual innuendo.

    IMHO ->

    The US Constitution is a living contract between the people and the
    Government and is made to be amended when the people see fit.

    IMHO ->

    The English language is a strange conglomeration of contradictions.
    (Especially as spoken in the UK)  The English treat all collective nouns as
    plural (Data, Company, Group, etc) and Americans tend to treat them as
    singular.

    IMHO ->

    We ought to ban plastic chevvies!                       ***  Gary   ***

    Message: 66260
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Jeff L. Germany
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 10:28:40

    Thanks for the info.

    Re: "I think the United States should come down from their high horse for
    once and see that other nations in this world have decent ideas on how to
    run a country"! Bravo! I agree whole heartily. America's ego is too big and
    we think we have all the answers.

    I belive in some sort of socialized medicine/ re-hab etc. etc. and I'm NOT a
    Communist either. Heck, we pay and pay and don't even know if social
    security or medicare is going to be around when we need it! Our taxes keep
    going sky higer and for what? Not for the people that's for sure.

    While we are on this subject - do you have an answer as to why this country
    fears socialized medicine? It is obvious we certainly need it with our life
    spans getting higher and higher. Medicare is not the same at all. Perhaps it
    is the word 'socialized' that turns people off er? Has a 'commie' ring to
    it doesn't it? Ha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66261
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Gary/last
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 10:36:59

    You are just jealous of my plastic Chevy because you don't have one! So
    there!! Sour grapes! *Heh -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 66262
    Author: Jeff Bohn
    Category: Sex & Love
    Subject: BBS
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 12:06:02

    IMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMMMMMMMKMMMMMMMMMMMMMM;
    :COMPUTER WORKSHOP, Chandler: 24 hrs.: 602-786-6197 : 300-2400 baud:
    LMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMMMMMMMJMMMMMMMMMMMMMM9
    :This file is  distributed  by  COMPUTER  WORKSHOP, Chandler, AZ   :
    :at 602-786-6197.  COMPUTER WORKSHOP BBS is 2400 baud accessible to:
    :IBM and Compatible Users in Arizona and the USA.                  :
    :                                                                  :
    :             (ADULT AREA FOR THOSE WHO ASK)                       :
    :   Visit our message bases. COMPUTER WORKSHOP is host to many     :
    :   interestion topics.                                            :
    :                                                                  :
    :              >>>>  NET 1:114/88  <<<<                            :
    :                                                                  :
    :There are  no access fees charged  on this BBS and  you have full :
    :access  to all  functions on  your first call; new  visitors  are :
    :able to download  on their first  visit  with no  upload/download :
    :ratio to contend with.                                            :
    LMMKMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMKMMM9
    :  :  Call and visit us - you're sure to get a warm welcome!   :   :
    HMMJMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMJMMM<

    Message: 66263
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 13:27:43

            Well Paul, I stay away from bars and trouble areas as well.

            Cost of a good weapon... around $400.00 new and as low as $200.00
    used.   But Paul, I thought you HAD a weapon?  If so, bring it out to the
    next Basic course and go though the Law lecture and basic shoot with 50
    rounds of ammo.  Total cost is One Saturday, $40.00 for the class, and a box
    of 50 rounds of ammo.

            As far as the value, let's hope you will NEVER have to use it....
    But what is the value you place on your self, and your wife?  I am sure you
    will not look for trouble, but sometimes trouble looks for you!  You need to
    make the decision with the facts you have at hand. If you choose not to take
    a law and shoot class of any kind, consider getting rid of your weapon.
    Give it to Sandy for testing at the very least....

            Paul, Sandy has a Ruger Service Six (38 with 4 inch barrel) for sale
    at $175.00.   This weapon was one that many police departments used.

    *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66264
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Weapons/Cliff
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 15:08:03

    I got my training from the US ARMY ranger school. I am safety aware with a
    weapon up to now, I have handled numerous types of weapons over the last 9
    years, and have not had an accident yet ( knock on wood ). I would like to
    attend on of your classes though, but at thee moment my budget will not
    permit it. If I do find $40 somewere, you can be shure I will attend,
    because your skills in weapons always need sharpening, no matter how good
    you are, I agree with you there.
         THE  MAD MAX

    Message: 66265
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Questions asked
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 15:16:10

    to Bob T. and Roger M.
     I am an American citizen, and have been since birth, my father is american,
    and stayed in Germany after his tour of duty. I spent 5 years in the US
    ARMY, with various assignments in Germany, Fort Bragg NC, Panama, Homduras,
    Nicaragua, Panama and grenada. I have seen action in grenada and nicaragua.
    I was trained by the US ARMY as a weapons and Interogation spec. This
    included handeling of numerous weapons and language and interogation
    training. I am also AIRBOURNE Qualified, that is how come I'm A DISABELED
    VETERAN. I was hurt badly during a night jump in Ft Bragg. Damaged both my
    Knees. So obviously I cant be drafted no more, but i would gladly go when
    called upon.
         THE MAD MAX

    Message: 66266
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Medicine
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 16:25:01

       Socialized anything is a mistake when it is forced upon us by government.
    Eliminating the competition which drives performance and innovation will
    only degrade medicine in the long run. The first effect of socialized
    medicine is to drive the outstanding practitioner out of the system and out
    of the country. The problem with our existing medical system is that it is
    too socialized already, in that every paying customer must foot the bill for
    non-paying customers. The result is a system so expensive that an even more
    socialized alternative starts to sound good from a financial perspective.
    When we look for cheaper services by using government to force everyone to
    buy the same thing, whether it is medical care or auto insurance or
    anything else, we end up with a degraded service and we tie ourselves to a
    centrally planned system over which we have no control. Yes, Ann that is
    what socialized medicine is, and it doesn't just sound like communism, it
    suffers from the exact same faults. Instead of individual doctors and
    institutions striving to earn more by providing more and better services,
    you have collective systems consuming a set allotment of money and patients,
    with no incentive to do better work.
       I will stick with my family doctor and dentist, and if socialized
    medicine drives my insurance out of business, and/or drives my chosen
    professionals out of business, what consolation will there be in the promise
    of cheaper, one-size-fits-all medical care{{{
      See You Later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 66267
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Mike M.
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 16:46:47

       I would think that living among the heavily armed population of Arizona
    would give him such opportunities to experience security through
    vulnerability and power through humble servitude that he would be in a
    constant state of euphoria. It is amazing that he would seek to change such
    a perfect setting for one of his nature.
       I don't share his penchant for vulnerablity or servitude, so he may rest
    assured that when he has converted eveyone else to his creed there will
    still be at least one person around for all of them to get their 'security'
    fix from by being vulnerable.
       The idea that Bill of Rights is open for amendment is a scurrilous one.
    The possibility that our government might someday fall into the hands of
    people who would so look down upon the rest of us that they would declare us
    unfit for freedom is the very reason that the Bill of Rights established for
    all time that Americans shall not be disarmed.
       If it ever comes to pass that wanting a gun is proof of being unfit to
    have one, wanting to speak against the government will be proof of unfitness
    to speak, wanting to be free of unreasonable search will be proof that one
    should be searched, and wanting to vote will be proof that one is not fit to
    take part in government.
      See You Later,
        Dean H.

    Message: 66268
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Mike M.
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 17:00:17

       Gun control advocates love to throw out terms like 'reasonable gun
    control measures', but when they get down to defining just what measures
    they are in favor of there are usually two classes. Either it is something
    which has already been tried and had no effect but to infringe the rights of
    law abiding citizens without impeding criminals at all, such as registration
    or licensing laws, or it is some  kind of gun ban. The gun ban also affects
    primarily law abiding citizens, since criminals can not be prevented from
    having guns by banning their sale or possession. The sham is that neither of
    these approaches is 'reasonable' by any logical standard. They have no
    'reasonable' chance of a positive outcome, and the demands they make upon
    the law abiding citizen are not 'reasonable' by any measure.
       It would be very enlightening if from now on, every time someone said
    they wanted 'reasonable' (or some other such innocuous sounding adjective)
    gun control measures, that speaker were immediately challenged to specify
    exactly what measures were being advocated and how they were expected to
    perform. In the political realm this would probably almost put a stop to the
    gun control debate, since it is only the ethereal, undefined, utopian view
    of gun control which has any public support. In actual votes on the issue,
    any defined proposal meets with total rejection by American voters, time
    after time.
      See You Later,
         Dean H.

    Message: 66269
    Author: $ Bob Thornburg
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Mad Max
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 17:50:38

    Re:  "I am an American citizen"

    You sound like a good patriotic American!

    Message: 66270
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: american
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 20:02:12

    Thank you Bob T. that is the nicest thing anybody has said to me about my
    military service in years.
       THE  MAD MAX

    Message: 66271
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Socialized Medicine
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 20:15:01

    To Dean Hathaway
     Obviously here is aperson that is just scared of a new way of thinking. Let
    me ask us something Dean. have you ever been treated in a german hospital?
    I'll tell you something about that:
    2 months ago I cut my hand and had to go to the emergency room at a local
    hospital. First of, while I was sitting there bleeding profusly, it took an
    hour and a half to fill out the paperwork wich I bleed over severly. They
    sat me in a room and let me wait for another hour, in wich time I kept on
    bleeding all over their floor. Then it took them 30 minutes to stich me up
    and they sent me home. Let me tell you about the bill:
    $250 for 2 1/2 hour emergency room time ( wich I dont think I received )
    $175 for a shot of antibiotic ( I check the actual price and it was $10 on
                                   The open market any pharmacy that is )
    $75 for two pill  ( actual price in a pharmacy $3.75
    $175 for doctors wages 2 1/2 hour wich he did not spend with me I was billed
          for 2 1/2 hours
    All that money ....... your darn right I refused to pay such an overpriced
    bill, it has nothing to do with free enterprice anymore, its a ripoff I
    think.  Let me tell you what would have happened in germany:
    i would have had my hand sown up in a matter of about 30 minutes within
    getting there. Then the would have asked me for my FEDERAL INSURANCE NR
    and I would have went home and no overpriced bill would have followed me
    there. I have, and nobody I know in germany ever has , ever received
    inadequed care in any medical facility   Cont. next post

    Message: 66272
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Med care
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 20:17:31

    as a matter of fact I'd say I got better care there then here.
    Thats about all I can say about that. Let me know what you think about that.
       THE  MAD MAX

    Message: 66273
    Author: Jeff Lochansky
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Answer
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 21:46:18

    I'm glad somebody finally agrees with me on something. Yes it would
    definitly inprove to quality of living here in the US if we could adopt just
    some of that system. You are propably right if some people will call you a
    commie for saying socialized anything most ignorant people do not know the
    difference between communism and socializm. As a matter of fact the politics
    practiced in the USSR are far from what Karl Marx envisioned as communism.
    The only reason I know that is because Karl Marx was born and raised in my
    hometown of Trier. That is why Marxis have been procecuted since stalins
    times in the USSR, because the did not like that form of communism. Things
    like that are standard learning in germany were I got most of my education.
    Like I said earlier West Germany is a social democracy, where as a matter of
    fact their constution was in a big part tailored after the American version.
    There are numerous other benifts in germany that would be worth looking at
    for a change. Unemployment Ins. for example. What always made me mad about
    that is what happend to me when I let the Army. A normal person is entitled
    to 26 weeks of unemployment in this state, not if you got out of the
    service, your only entitled to 13 weeks. I was however entitled to pay state
    and federal income tax at the same rate as a civilian, the same goes for
    social security. I, after leaving the service do to a disability could not
    believe that my country would penelize me for defending it. That is a
    federal law not a state law. I really felt bad back then. But I still think
    there is no other country in the world except The United States of America
    where I would rather live. But that doesnt mean we the people cant improve
    upon it, there is always room for improvement.    THE  MAD MAX

    Message: 66274
    Author: $ Apollo SYSOP
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Social anything?
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 22:13:28

            I would hardly call it a NEW way of thinking......  Frankly, I don't
    like mandentory social anything.  I hate Social Security, and RESENT I am
    forced to contribute.   I would probably resent Social medical coverage as
    well if I had to pay for something I might never need.  If it was voluntary
    where I had FREE choice to select the program or not...then it might be a
    good thing.   How can we have a FREE America with freedom of choice, then be
    forced to accept a dozzen or more socialist programs?

            Funny how those socialist foreigners rush over to the States when
    they need a GOOD operation and serious medical care.  Under the Capitalist
    system, medicine and other health care related industry develops faster.
    Government Red tape and interference SLOWS up the release of new medical
    drugs and treatments.

            Mad Max... Good interesting posts... Nothing is cast in cement, so
    maybe in the medical area, you may change my mind because I know the run
    away costs, have made it tough for the low income person to seek medical
    help.  Health should somehow be available to all... Maybe Dean Hathaway has
    some ideas on how this could be done.  But when you say the word 'Social',
    it sends a chill down my back as there goes 'Free choice'... and ain't that
    what America USE to be all about?

            *=* the 'Mighty' Apollo SYSOP *=*

    Message: 66275
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Zak/Television
    Date: 06/05/90  Time: 23:59:34

    I see you have taken the ball (can you say "ball" here) I brought up at the
    record shop, and are rolling with it ("rolling" -- is that offensive?), at
    least in the form of a unique public access program.

    BTW, I am still interested in getting the material together for a program.
    I'll keep you informed.

    Daryl
    (Ro 5:1-2)

    Message: 66276
    Author: $ Mike Carter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Reasonable Gun stuff
    Date: 06/06/90  Time: 01:18:18

    What's reasonable in one politico's eyes and what's not in someone else's
    is always going to be a point of contention. Mike Middletons objectionable
    idea of this becomes objectionable soley on its ignorance of that.
    It's the idea that just because someone wants to stand naked in front
    of armed troops and missile carrying taj+convoys, he thinks the rest
    of us should too.
    In the pretense of being sure of himself, anyone who disagrees
    must be insecure. Dean Hathaway put it eloquently. If the premise is that
    by owning or desiring to own a gun I'm not fit to own it...then it stands
    to take that logic to its logical conclusion. The obfuscation of facts
    by the anti-gun crowd lends me to believe they've never been a victim
    of a crime, nor have they been a victim of reality, truth and what's really
    going on. When they are victimized they're also the first ones to blurt;
    "KILL THE SLEEZE-** &^$$% @@ SON OF A *&%$%$ NOSE BLEEDING ^%^^%$%#$#("

    Armed citizens who have been trained to handle a weapon are safer than
    citizens who own a car and have a state driver's license.

    FACT.

    Message: 66277
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Bob T.
    Date: 06/06/90  Time: 02:03:13

    You say you do not understand.  Hardly anyone does.  When John Lennon went
    on a Peace Campaign, he was harassed by the Establishment, FBI
    notwithstanding.

    Anyone caught speaking of truth and love for all isn't too popular in
    today's or yesterday's world.  It just isn't ready for anyone that really
    cares.

    If I were doing a Rating of Planets, as in restaurant ratings, I would not
    give Earth a single star, a half star perhaps but that would be stretching
    it a bit, I believe.

    The human animal is ignorant and in that ignorance lies greed and
    selfishness.  The overall I.Q. of Earth's inhabitants would be something
    like 53, plus or minus 3.

    The ruling class, in their ignorance, are smart enough to realize that to
    keep the populace in a uproar about an issue, any issue, is to keep the heat
    off their collective asses.

    At present the 'issue' is drugs.  The working class stiff is kept in a
    daily dither over this issue.  Several years ago it was Communism and
    before that something else.  It allows the people, the big people who make
    the billions from Capitalism, breathing room in that the poor and 'just
    barely making it' can't raise a voice about any REAL issues.

    The real issues are food, housing, utilities and medical care, when needed.
    The real issue is who owns you and what do you have to do for the rest of
    your life to see that basic necessities will continue coming your way.

    It isn't 'pot' or even cocaine.  If it were then alcohol, tobacco and
    caffeine among others would carry severe punishments as well.

    The high and mighty politicians and their ilk are the ones growing
    enormously wealthy from this so called drug campaign just as they did from
    their "Just say no to Communism" effort.

    It's all the same, just packaged in a different color of label.

    Now be a good boy and read your bible and do what the good lord tells you
    to so that one day, when you die, you can go to heaven.   -Rod

    Message: 66279
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: FINIS
    Date: 06/06/90  Time: 02:05:36

    If THEY cared about our collective health think of what would be illegal.

    Alcohol, tobacco, cars, guns, baseball bats, red dye #2, and McDonalds just
    to name a few.

Content of this site is © Mark Firestone or whomever wrote it. All rights reserved.