### Apollo BBS Archive - March 21, 1989

    Main Menu command:V

    Special Election March 28, 1989 Proposition 300
    Known as the VALTRANS Plan for 103 miles of elevated automated rapid transit
    trains... to be paid for with a 1/2 cent sales tax increase for the next
    thirty years.  The bus fleet will expand from 350 to 1500 vehicles as well.

    [A]  YES, I am for this plan as proposed by proposition 300
    [B]  NO!, I am against this plan as proposed by proposition 300

    How do you vote [A-B] or [CR] to abort:B

    Poll results to date:
    [A] 7    [B] 11

    Mail from Sandy SYSOP
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 20:54:44

            I, too, want to take a writing course.
    You can post some logical reasonable posts, then you seem to follow them up
    with a BONER!
            You remind me of a character on Hill Street Blues, one of my
    favorite shows at present. I think he called himself Captain Marvel, the
    caped crusader for justice and the american way. Detective Belker keeps on
    running this guy in for interfering with police work. Everytime these two
    meet, Captain Marvel makes one heck of a speech, the 'apple pie, patriotic,
    love your fellow man' type then blows all the sentiment out the window by
    saying something like his mother is from mars.
            Now, if you could keep your mother's origin out of your up and
    coming speeches, I think you could 'whip some ass', rally the masses, and
    have a revolution.

                            Sandy
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        I just become tired of talking to 'brick walls'.  When Paul & Daryl
     2:start quoting the bible or refuse to answer logical points, not only from me
     3:but JT & Dean Hathaway, Ann, Alan, and Peter as well, then I get frustrated.
     4:But at least I get to see how it is in real life.
     5:        By the way, how did you find out my Mother was from Mars?  I was
     6:keeping that a secret until later.  Oh well.  Thanks for the posts, I'll try
     7:not to blow it.                         -Rod

    Mail from Nick Ianuzzi
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 03:22:40

    If I had any good drugs, I would have used them all by now.
    [A]bort, [C]ontinue, [I]nsty-reply or [Z]ap:Insty-reply

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        See you around the Universe.

    $tatus Club Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 5329
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last, last
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 21:11:11

            (double grin)

    Message: 5330
    Author: $ Mike Howerton
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Carter/Crossroads
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 01:05:32

    When is Crossroads going 9600??  Maybe it will be worth the call then.
    Apollo is the only board that I still call at 2400.  And to think that at
    one time I thought 1200 was fast.

    Message: 5331
    Author: $ Jeannie Innajug
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Carter
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 07:14:53

    Hey.............Mikey............

    Don't let the door hit you in the tush!

    See Y'aa..............
    Jeannie

    Message: 5332
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: JT/last last last
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 08:53:44

    #7327 - 'If the shoe fits, wear it'!

    Apollo Underground Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 120
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 21:11:44

            Ah......!

    Message: 121
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last, Last, Last
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 05:49:37

                 Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Message: 122
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Last etc.
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 08:55:47

    See?

    Message: 123
    Author: $ Pat Stoddard
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last several
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 22:21:00

    See? WHAT?! (Been away for too long).

    -Pat

    Message: 124
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: last
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 13:58:46

            I love Jim and Tammy.

    Computer Hacker SIG Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 127
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Bit Bucket Talk
    Subject: Mike on leaving
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 08:56:45

    But why are you leaving when Apollo is going full steam? -=*) ANN (*=-

    The outer COSmos Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 2946
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Question ?
    Subject: Last
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 21:13:11

            Did you know that I have 'perfect' vision?

    Message: 2947
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Shit-Chat!
    Subject: Sandy Sysop
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 05:45:43

    You don't know what you are missing.
                     Love You All
                     Ralph

    Message: 2948
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Question ?
    Subject: Masterbation
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 08:58:01

    I can't hardly see a thing anymore. Suppose there's a connection?
    Hahahaha -=*) ANNIE THE FANNY (*=-

    Message: 2949
    Author: $ Pat Stoddard
    Category: Answer !
    Subject: JT/joke
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 22:23:29

    That's a joke I like! I HAVE been away from here for too long.

    -Pat

    Message: 2950
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Rod/2945
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 22:58:51

    And then you started smoking marijuana to improve your eyesight, right?

    Message: 2951
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Ann/2947
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 22:59:27

    Oops/2948.

    But you're happy, right?

    Message: 2952
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Question ?
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 05:44:00

    What is this thing called Masterbation?
                      Ralph

    Message: 2953
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Ralph/masterbation
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 07:56:55

    You'll really have to ask someone else that question. I'm pure and innocent.
    Everybody knows that! My eyesight is bad and I have pimples. Hmmmm ....

    Message: 2954
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Cosmos-Chatter
    Subject: Ann/lesson
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 14:01:27

            Masterbation means ???  MastUrbation means to have sex with
    yourself.  -Rod  P.S.  I should know.

    Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 57738
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Taranto/Drugs
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 17:54:15

      I do not accept the idea that it is a legitimate function of government
    to protect the citizen from himself where no fraud or coercion are involved.
      If I did accept that idea I would still not accept the idea that drug
    use can be effectively dealt with by arresting users.
      If I did accept all of the above I would still be against the policy
    because it would put impossible demands on the law enforcement and criminal
    justice systems at a time when they are already unable to deal with the
    problem of violent repeat offenders.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 57739
    Author: $ Dean Hathaway
    Category: Politics
    Subject: Paul/Drugs
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 17:55:33

    Paul: Using your definitions for 'victims' of drug abuse we could easily
          build a case for outlawing practically every activity imaginable.
          You started by calling the person who uses the drug a crime victim
          and then went on to include everyone who might be harmed, annoyed,
          or taxed as a result of that activity. Using this kind of thinking
          we would all be in prison. Drug abuse is a victimless crime because
          it does not involve fraud or coercion, as long as the user has freely
          chosen to do it. If fraud or coercion result from it, such as property
          crimes committed to pay for drugs, then that is a separate issue, just
          as it is a separate issue if someone commits a theft in order to
          finance the purchase of motorcycle for example. When you think of
          the huge amounts of drugs being consumed, it should be obvious that
          the stereotype of drug users as non-productive people who routinely
          rob and steal can not be accurate. If that picture were true for the
          average user we would all have been robbed blind and murdered long
          ago.
       See You Later
          Dean H.

    Message: 57740
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Hathaway
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 19:57:17

    I believe an argument can be made against drug legalization based on
    libertarian principles.  The notion that any activity is permissible that
    does not involve force or fraud presupposes that man is a rational being.
    I do not believe, for example, that most libertarians would argue against
    institutionalizing the mentally incompetent -- that is, people whose mental
    condition leaves them incapable of caring for themselves or renders them
    dangerous to themselves and others.  Libertarians may take issue with others
    (or with each other) as to where the line should be drawn or how stringent
    should be the burden of proof.  But if it is agreed that someone is
    incapable of rational thought, I don't think most libertarians would
    disagree in principle that to assert that he has a right to liberty is at
    best meaningless and at worst pernicious.

    The question, then, is this:  If the capacity for rational thought is a
    precondition of the right to liberty, does the right to liberty include the
    right to ingest substances that diminish or destroy the capacity for
    rational thought?  I think a strong argument can be made that it does not.

    As for the practical consideration you raise, I have not suggested that the
    solution to the drug problem is "jailing users," and I don't know that
    anyone has.  The solution is more likely found in lesser sanctions, such as
    the denial of various government privileges (drivers licenses, for example)
    to those who fail drug tests, public exposure of drug users (as Bill Bennett
    recently proposed), and increased use of drug tests by private employers.
    There should also be more discipline in schools and, yes, more education as
    to the effects of drugs.  It is clear that the drug problem can only be
    solved if we're willing to apply a little imagination to it.  Stock,
    boilerplate answers like yours and Paul Savages's are the reason the war on
    drugs has so far proved unwinnable.

    Message: 57742
    Author: $ Sandy SYSOP
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: JT
    Date: 03/20/89  Time: 21:09:48

            Interesting thought ...... "...does the right to liberty include the
    righr to ingest substances that diminish or destroy the capacity for
    rational thought?"
            They say that one man's right ends at the end of the other man's
    nose. If one can not rationally think out his/her next course of action,
    they stand a good chance of infringing on the other person's right to
    'happiness' or whatever.
            So, who has the greater right? The person wanting to injest a
    substance that will alter his/her rational thought OR the person wanting to
    enjoy his/her 'happiness'?

    Message: 57743
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: TARANTO
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 00:02:16

         Why shouldn't I be able to commit murder or rape in my own home?  I'll
    tell you why - Because I'm not murdering & raping myself.  Those are actions
    committed on another person.
         As far as drug use in public goes - if the use were legal, the abuse
    should be handled much in the same way the abuse of alcohol is handled now.
    Driving under the influence of ANY drug (whether it be pot or booze) is a
    no-no.

    Message: 57744
    Author: $ Peter Petrisko
    Category: News Today
    Subject: GUESS WHAT
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 00:09:18

         For anyone interested, I have a humor column in the this week's issue
    of that new weekly rag, "Where It's Hot!".
         Yeah, I'm a journalist now.  Just like JT.

    Message: 57745
    Author: David Roe
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: rape
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 01:33:47

            Hey, I raped myself before.  Could I be arrested?

    Message: 57746
    Author: Woodrow Smith
    Category: Tales & Tall Stories
    Subject: Spirit Departure
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 02:09:35

    Mr. Albert Sykes reports the following experience: "I was sitting having
    biscuits with some friends when I felt my spirit leave my body and go make a
    telephone call.  For some reason, it called the Moscowitz Fiber Glass
    Company.  My spirit then returned to my body and sat for another twenty
    minutes or so, hoping nobody would suggest charades.  When the conversation
    turned to mutual funds, it left again and began wandering around the city.
    I am convinced that it visited the Statue of Liberty and then saw the stage
    show at Radio City Music Hall.  Following that, it went to Benny's Steak
    House and ran up a tab of sixty-eight dollars.  My spirit then decided to
    return to my body, but it was impossible to get a cab.  Finally, it walked
    up Fifth Avenue and rejoined me just in time to catch the late news.  I
    could tell that it was reentering my body, because I felt a sudden chill,
    and a voice said, 'I'm back.  You want me to pass those raisins?'"

    Message: 57747
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 06:47:02

     Would you like to differentiate for us between the drug pusher (or sales
    clerk if drugs were legalized) who puts a substance in a kid's hands that
    alters his mind to a point of suicide ("Look at me! I can fly!" as he jumps
    off a building) and the murderer who puts a gun to the kid's head and pulls
    the trigger? The results are the same, no matter how you want to pretty them
    up to support your position.

    Message: 57748
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: The sysop resting
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 06:49:58

    AHA! He's coming back! I knew it wouldn't last! (smile)

    Message: 57749
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 07:06:08

     I have repeatedly said that there are no pat "boilerplate" solutions to the
    drug problem. Granted, I do have some ideas on the subject, and harsher
    penalties for the distribution chain is a prime one, but I agree with you
    that discipline and education are probably some of the most effective
    weapons existant. They are not without some built-in problems of their own
    however. Discipline in the schools? How is a teacher or school administrator
    to discipline children, when any attempt to do so is to invite a lawsuit by
    ignorant, sue-happy parents? How much more time are school systems to spend
    on drug education at the expense of the three "R"s, only to be frustrated by
    peer and parental pressures and laxity?
     Exposure of drug users and employers' tests may be good, but the ultimate
    dismissal and resultant unemployment would only increase the possibility of
    criminal activity, once the user loses his source of legitimate income. To
    say that viewing drug users as unproductive is to stereotype is to deny the
    facts in evidence that this is usually the case. While there undoubtedly are
    some productive members of society who occasionally use drugs, there can be
    no denying that drugs are addictive, (crack, for instance, is referred to as
    instantly addictive), and, once addicted, a person's usefullness is
    adversely affected, to say the least.
     While legalization MAY take a few dollars out of the coffers of organized
    crime, it will not make narcotics less addictive, nor will it negate the
    need for addicts without visible sources of income to resort to criminal
    activity to support their addiction.

    Message: 57750
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/#57726
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 08:10:20

    Your quote: Perhaps the real reason you want to legalize marijuana is purely
    self-serving behind that big red paper thin banner"??? Sorry! I do not
    understand that statement fully - especially about 'red paper thin banner'!
    I DO understand that it is sarcasum of course and it's obvious you are
    miss-understanding me. I DO NOT want to legalize marijuana because I want to
    use it! I thought I had made it clear in many posts that it doesn't agree
    with me. But I do not think that other's should be denied using it. I know
    it is not as bad as drinking, so why NOT legalize it. Perhaps a lot of
    alcholics will use it instead. Marijuana is the most 'over rated' drug
    around! Unless someone totally over indulges in it, it will not do as much
    harm as booze will when taken moderately.
    Re: organized crime - of course I know it will not be eliminated if drugs
    are made legal. But it will sure take a big bite out of their profits. I am
    conserned with the little pushers - the guy on the street! The people that
    would ordinarily hold down factory jobs and be useful to their families and
    society. Instead, they make lots of big bucks pushing drugs - getting the
    young started on the stuff! Why would they hold a factory job when they can
    make triple the money on expensive drugs? AND the addicts themselves - if it
    were legal, they wouldn't need a life of crime to feed their habit! Also,
    some of the hard stuff could be used legally in the medicine world. That is
    one of the real shames here - it can't be used on patients dying in horrible
    pain! I'm NOT saying this is a perfect answer to the problem but what we are
    doing or not doing now is failing and always will. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 57751
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl/my brother!
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 08:27:53

    But you see Daryl, that's exactly what you are saying really -- "Just say no
    brother" because that's all we have to offer right now! Your discription of
    a drug addict was right - that's the way they can turn out. He is a ZOMBIE
    that can't control his own life at that point and does need help. In the
    beginning, it WAS his choice and no others. Now, he has no choices.
    Re: my personal reaction to this if it was my brother (BTW I do not have a
    brother) ---- First, if he was living with us and started taking drugs, we'd
    kick him out if he didn't stop. (not marijuana) If he got to the stage to
    which you discribed, we'd take him back in - try to steer him into
    rehabilition and give him all the help we could. We'd give him money to feed
    his habit (with in reason of course) and may even buy it illegally for him!
    At this point, he is sick regardless of what is making him sick. He will
    probablly die young(ish). This can and does happen with drinking too. But
    you see, my point is - my brother is an addict and it's illegal! Nothing
    stopped him! But perhaps he started at 13 years old - got started by some
    friend of his that urged him to 'have a little fun' - the one that sells it
    at great profit and the ONLY way he is making that great profit is by
    getting people hooked. -=*) ANN (*=-
    P.S. If my husband was dying of cancer horribaly, I'd certainly purchase
    heroin for him regardless of the risks. I'd expect the same from him.

    Message: 57752
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: News Today
    Subject: In the paper
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 08:51:24

    These are a few little tid bits the U.S. Attorney General Thornburgh said
    this morning in the paper regarding drugs:

    "The war on drugs will be won on the battlefield of values"

    "This is a battle in which everyone in the United States must enlist if
    we're going to win it"

    "An outraged community is going to say to the drug user that their behavior
    will no longer be tolerated"

    Whew! What fighting words they are!!! But I can't figure out what I'm
    supposed to do as a member of a community?! Am I for instance, going to the
    local high school (where I know that drug use is the norn) and face those
    drug using turkeys and tell them a thing or two? Should I stand on the
    street cornor - handing out pamplets on the horrors of drug use? Should I
    picket in front of the school? Should I lug around a big heavy cross on my
    back and preach to them that Christ died for their sins, so repent?
    Battlefield of values?? Sounds like some patriotic war song. Or better yet,
    a politician's 'gobble - dee - gook' speech! What nonsense! And the funny
    part about it is - It's been done before - time and time again with hardly a
    dent! -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 57753
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Taranto/Drugs
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 13:46:40

    But can we in our right mind truly eliminate one evil by legalizing another
    greater evil? (Recreational drug use, not the drug itself, though in this
    day and age they walk happily hand in hand.)

    Message: 57754
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod/Ex-Christian
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 13:51:25

    The problem is, anyone can call themself a Christian. However, whether
    someone decides to tack the name on for convenience and go on doing what
    they're doing, or truly dedicate their lives to serving the Lord, confuses
    only us lowly humans. God can tell the difference, and trust me, these
    "Christians of Convenience" have already recieved their reward in full.
    [Matthew 6:1-4]

    Message: 57755
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 13:58:40

    Whether you decide to smoke, toke, shoot, and snort your way to oblivion is
    not my decision. You have decided that you are happy in your happy little
    drug-clouded quasi-reality, and darned if I am going to stop you. But what
    about our children? What about those whose minds haven't been infected yet?
    Look, you are going to continue to buy drugs whether they are illegal or
    not, and nobody (short of the law) is going to stop you. I think that if any
    body wants to corrupt their mind with drugs, it is a decision that they are
    going to make whether the law says they can or not. The way things are now,
    I am quite satisfied with. Personally, I cannot understand the foggy logic
    that people try to use to justify their desire for the freedom to destroy
    themselves. You wanna know what the problem is, Rod? THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT
    HERE THAT CARE. Now you may find that to be a problem, but...

    Message: 57756
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James/57749
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 14:05:07

    You made some good points in that message, James. Arresting the user (unless
    that user has committed a crime) accomplishes little. However, the points
    that you brought up are good ones. It may point out to the drug user that
    the only doors that are closing on him/her via drug abuse are not just those
    that he/she is closing on him/herself.

    Message: 57757
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: James/II
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 14:06:30

    PS: The reference number in that above message was wrong. The "9" should
    have been a "0".

    Good points, well taken.

    Message: 57758
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Petrisko
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 16:34:31

    Well, you have invalidated your own analogy.  Since the Bible is not treated
    legally the same way alcohol is, then drugs are not equivalent to the Bible
    if they are to be treated as alcohol is.  You will have to come up with a
    better argument.

    Message: 57759
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Savage
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 16:38:35

    As I have pointed out, the economics of the drug trade are such that an
    anti-drug strategy cannot center on efforts directed against suppliers of
    drugs.  There is, I suppose, a moral argument to be made for including such
    efforts along with efforts against users.  But if our goal is to minimize
    the use of illicit drugs, we must concentrate on efforts against the users.
    As for education, it would be absurd to further neglect the "three R's" in
    the name of devoting more time to drug education.  In fact, better education
    in academic fundamentals would itself help stop drug abuse by giving kids
    some sense of purpose.

    Message: 57760
    Author: $ James Taranto
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: WESTFALL
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 16:42:38

    YOU ASK WHETHER IT MAKES SENSE TO LEGALIZE A GREATER EVIL (I.E., DRUG USE)
    IN ORDER TO STOP A LESSER EVIL (I.E., PROPERTY AND VIOLENT CRIME BY ADDICTS
    TO SUPPORT THEIR HABITS).  THIS IS A MISLEADING QUESTION.  WHAT WE SHOULD BE
    ASKING IS TO WHAT EXTENT THE LEGALIZATION OF DRUG USE IS GOING TO INCREASE
    SUCH ACTIVITY, AND TO WHAT EXTENT IT IS GOING TO STOP VIOLENT CRIME.  IT MAY
    BE THAT DRUG USE WOULD NOT INCREASE APPRECIABLY UNDER LEGALIZATION BUT CRIME
    WOULD DECREASE SIGNIFICANTLY, IN WHICH CASE THE ARGUMENT FOR LEGALIZATION IS
    QUITE POWERFUL INDEED.  OR IT MAY BE THAT DRUG USE WOULD GO WAY UP BUT CRIME
    WOULD REMAIN ABOUT THE SAME.  IN THIS CASE, OBVIOUSLY, DRUGS SHOULD NOT BE
    LEGALIZED.

    Message: 57762
    Author: Mike McCarter
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: MSG#57761
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 19:13:16

    I LIKE THAT LAST MESSAGE. VERY MOVING, HAS SPIRIT, LAUGHS, CRIES.
    I GIVE IT 3 STARS!!!

    Message: 57763
    Author: $ Rod Bias
    Category: Hard/Software
    Subject: AST SixPakPlus
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 02:29:17

         I just traded some hardware and wound up with an AST SixPakPlus but
    NO DOCUMENTATION.  I need information on setting DIP switches and jumpers.
    Can anyone supply me with a copy of the information I need?

                                 Rod Bias
                                 602-438-9202
         AST SixPakPlus (not SixPakPremium -- I have info on that).  Thanks.

    Message: 57764
    Author: $ Paul Savage
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 05:05:30

    Once again your position is as full of holes as Swiss cheese, but it is
    probably pointless to show you the credibility gaps. However, for the sake o
    discussion:
    1. T
    1. Thos "little pushers" who, if it were not for the profits realized in
    peddling poison would hold down factory jobs. HA! The pusher types are
    stereotypical ne'er do wells who, if they weren't dealing drugs would "eke
    out" a living doing other laborless things such as fencing stolen goods,
    stealing themselves, pimping for a few "ladies" or some other nefarious
    occupation.
    2. The addicts, most of whom have no visible means of support since their
    addiction prevents them from holding down a real job, would not suddenly
    find honest work if dope was legal. They would still have to rob, steal and
    kill for their next fix.
     3. As to those "poor, suffering souls" who are dying agonizing deaths from
    cancer or whatever, the medical profession has and uses plenty of pain
    killing drugs, including hallucigens, to make the last days or hours of
    these people as comnmfortable as possible. THey don't need crack, meth or
    any other street drug to do their thing.
    Why do you insist on hanging on to lame duck alibis for legalization that
    have never held water better than a seive? Probably because there is no real
    justification for it.
    @

    Message: 57765
    Author: $ Ralph Blehm
    Category: Answer!
    Subject: Paul
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 06:12:54

    Why are you always right and everybody else is wrong?
                       Ralph

    Message: 57766
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Paul/drugs
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 07:43:44

    Perhaps you are right Paul - the pushers would just go on to other things
    like becoming pimps - the addicts still would not work at a honest living.
    But a lot would be elminated if drugs were legal is all I'd hope for. The
    pusher that lures children into drugs for one. The countries who grow and
    ship the stuff would have to find other 'farming' to do. (Some little
    countries - that is their main income) I don't profess that legalizing it
    would cure everything - it may even make it worse, I don't know. I just say
    it's worth a try because we're not getting anywhere the way things are!
    There's 'BIG TALK' in the paper of punishing the users - even the casual
    ones. But I don't see how that can be accomplished do you? If there's 1
    pusher to every 100 users - how can we even begin to think of punishing the
    user if we can't control the pusher now? I know it's been used as an example
    MANY times - but remember what happened during probition? They finally ended
    up legalizing it again because they were getting no where and people like Al
    Capone were living like kings. He wasn't the only one either. Half the
    people in the country were braking the law!

    Re: using drugs in medical cases - in the last stages of cancer (some) the
    drugs they use now do not cut the pain. Morphene (sp) is the main one that
    is used and it is good only up to a point. Why on earth would you be against
    using Heroin if it let them die peacefully and pain free? Morphene is
    addicting too and what difference does it make if these people become
    addicts? I'm curious as to your answer on this. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Message: 57767
    Author: $ Daryl Westfall
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Ann/Last
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 10:53:59

    You say that you don't know if legalizing it would make things better or
    worse. Then why are you so blindly willing to make it legal? Ok, what if
    things DID get worse? We'd just simply make them illegal again, right? I
    don't think so. Your reference to the Prohibition was a prime example. To
    legalize them COULD be going from bad to worse. In an offhand way, I would
    say your statement agrees to that. To try and and instill a "Prohibition"
    after legalization COULD make things even worse YET. James is right, we need
    to use a little creativity in whatever finally comes about. To simply argue
    the black/white point of legalization vs. status quo is too short-sighted.
    If they WERE legalized, what ELSE would need to be done? If they aren't
    legalized, what should we start doing right NOW? We can't just close our
    eyes to the possible conseqences and just say "OK, let's do it." We need to
    open our eyes as wide as we can, and research all aspects and possible
    outcomes.

    Message: 57768
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit Chat
    Subject: Daryl
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 14:12:52

            You are sick.  Your religion has damaged your brain.  You are also
    blind.  Oh yeah, and you and a brick wall have a lot in common.

            Dean Hathaway left a number of good, logical posts on drug
    legalization but I bet you didn't see them.  The logic of them most probably
    made your little mind go blank.  How convenient. -Rod

    Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board command:$C

    Message: 224
    Author: $ Nick Ianuzzi
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Ann/brains
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 03:33:16

    That's hogwash. We already use all of our brain.

    Message: 225
    Author: $ Ann Oudin
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: Rod
    Date: 03/21/89  Time: 09:00:54

    'Little Anthony and the Imperials' ----
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! You ARE funny today! It took
    real talent to think up all those un-related (in this case - related) names!
    'Laura Lansberry' Hahahahahaha. -=*) ANN (*=-

    Rod, God & Bob Bulletin Board command:EC

    You chose Chit-Chat

    Subject:Ann/Laura

    Enter a line containing only an <*> to stop
     1:        Laura lives in Tucson and gets on a BBS there.  In my latest
     2:newsletter from The American Atheists, Tucson Chapter, there is a letter to
     3:the editor from her (him).  So, Laura is alive and kicking.
     4:        Rod
     5:end

    Edit command:S

    Saving message...
    The message is 226

    Message: 227
    Author: $ Rod Williams
    Category: Chit-Chat
    Subject: LSD
    Date: 03/22/89  Time: 14:27:09

            Forty-five minutes after taking the drug, Jackie Deluane and I were
    sitting in the coffee shop of Holiday Inn on Airline Highway, Metairie,
    Louisiana.  It was dark outside.  The walls started melting and colors
    jumped out at me.  Went outside and started walking down the road.  We went
    into a Krystal Hamburger joint and each ordered a burger.  She took the top
    bun from hers and rubbed the meat and mustard in my face.  I laughed while
    doing the same to her.
            We left and went around the corner to a country and western bar.
    Everyone wanted to buy us a drink but the thought made us sick.  They they
    wanted to pick up on Jackie and I felf threatened.  This was definitely not
    the time to feel scared.  We got the hell out of that place and walked back
    to the motel.  We made love on the floor while listening to some sixties
    music (it was the sixties).
            Afterwards she informed me that she had to be home by five A.M. and
    I was somewhere in the middle of tripping.  I drove my red, 66 VW Karmann
    Ghia the five miles to her home.  Everything was melting.  Half the time I
    was ten or so feet above the car trying to communicate with the driver.  I
    dropped her off at her home in the French Quarter and headed for the nearest
    all night bar.  I melted into the peoples arms and we became soul mates for
    life.  I still have bits and chunks of them in me.  We became fused together
    into a glorious mass of electrical energy.  I can tell you where each and
    every on of them is to this day.  I can tell you exactly what they are
    doing.  Except a few are no longer in the flesh because of the war.  One of
    them is now a undercover narc. for the Tampa Police Department.  (later)
    |1!_4"7 V9$iM~Ko
    NO CARRIER

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