Original Message Date: 12 Mar 92 08:33:00
From: Jack Decker on 1:154/8
To: Tom Jennings on 1:125/111
Subj: CC: of Policy Complaint against Steve Winter - NOT FOR¨
PUBLICATION!
 * Message Forwarded by Ned 2.00 *
 Original From: Jack Decker                    on 154/8
            To: Tom Faulkner                   on 3641/0
       Subject: Policy Complaint against Steve Winter

cc: Tom Jennings, 1:125/111 (FYI only, NOT for publication!) 

 Message #50, Area "NetMail" 
   From: Steve Winter 
     To: Jack Decker                           06 Mar 92 14:32:47 
Subject: False christian post 

MSGID: 1:3641/238 210e7bbc 
PID: FM+ 2.1 
I believe that you are the false christian who posted the lies in the ¨
recent FidoNews.  I can certainly understand why false christian filth¨
are  offended by the truth that exposes them as deceiving scum.  Your¨
cult is a  putrid stench in the nostrils of God. 


    -=( A BASIC DEFECTIVE PREMISE OF THE FALSE CHRISTIAN CULTS )=- 

The "believe only" cults are basing their salvation upon the defective ¨
premise that the early Christians to whom the original epistles were 
addressed, "believed" the apostles, but hadn't obey them.  Then they 
are also building upon their defective premise that the apostles 
accepted as "brethern" folks who refused to obey them. 

Every time that a deceiving cultist leads a victim to the book of 
Galatians, or Romans, or Ephesians to "explain" to them why obediance¨
to  Acts 2:38 isn't necessary for salvation; they deceptively ignore¨
the fact  that the addressees of the epistles of the Bible were those¨
who 
had OBEYED the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation. 

Unless a person BECOMES a Christian, they are NOT even the individuals ¨
that epistles containing the benevolent promises are addressed to It's¨
as  if they are holding a promisary note that is addressed to someone 
else.  They rejoice about its promised value (which is real), but¨
don't  realize that it's not addressed to them.  The benevolent¨
promises of 
God are only for those who OBEY Him. 

A brief glance at just a couple of scriptures serves to expose the 
majority of these cultists. 

True preachers teach why the Bible needs to be obeyed, while the 
 Satanic cultists "proclaim" their "salvation without obediance". 

The book of Romans shows that a "non-believer" was recognized by 
 "lack of obediance" to the original Apostolic message (Acts 2:38) 

Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias¨
saith,  Lord, who hath believed our report? 

Deceivers often take verses from Ephsians (a letter to the CHURCH at 
Ephesus), and ignore the fact that the Ephesian Church was FOUNDED¨
upon  the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation. The membership of the Ephesian¨
Church had  ALLREADY OBEYED Acts 2:38. 

Notice carefully the founding of the Ephesian church and pay careful 
attention to Paul adhering faithfully to the Acts 2:38 plan even¨
though  John the Baptist had allready baptised those individuals. 

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth,¨
Paul  having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and¨
finding 
certain disciples, 

Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye ¨
believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether ¨
there be any Holy Ghost. 

Here also is clear proof in verse 2 that a person doesn't receive the¨
Holy  Ghost just because they "believe".  The "believe only" cultists 
will often teach that lie. 

Acts 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And¨
they  said, Unto John's baptism. 

When Paul saw that they had not received the Spirit (of Christ), he 
questioned the validity of their baptism. 

Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of 
repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him 
which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 

Believers were/are ALWAYS obeyers. 

Acts 19:5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of 
the Lord Jesus. 

Folks who had been baptised by John the Baptist himself had 
to be RE-Baptised in Jesus name in order to become Christians. 

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost ¨
came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 

After obeying Christian baptism they did receive the same Spirit of¨
Christ  that the Apostles had received in Acts 2:4. 
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 Message #128, Area "NetMail" 
   From: MBounce V1.00 
     To: Jack Decker                           10 Mar 92 18:14:38 
Subject: Message Returned To Sender. 

MSGID: 1:3641/238.0 29bd4404 
The following message was refused at the above address: 

¨
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ¨
On: 07 Mar 92  10:36:00 
By: Jack Decker, 154/8 
To: Steve Winter, 3641/238 
Re: Re: False christian post 
¨
------------------------------------------------------------------------------  ¨
SW> I believe that you are the false christian who posted the lies in 
 SW> the recent FidoNews.  I can certainly understand why false 
 SW> christian filth are offended by the truth that exposes them as 
 SW> deceiving scum.  Your cult is a putrid stench in the nostrils of 
 SW> God. 

Steve, you've lost it totally.  I don't know what kind of teaching¨
you've  been sitting under, or if you just came up with all of this on¨
your own,  but it's going to be death to you.  What happened to "judge¨
not lest ye be  judged" in your theology?  What about the greatest¨
commandment (love)?   What about Roman chapter 14 (please read it)? 

Steve, what do you do with Ephesians 2:8-9?  You must really hate¨
those  two verses, because they destroy the very core of your¨
"salvation by  works" theology. 

 SW> Every time that a deceiving cultist leads a victim to the book of 
 SW> Galatians, or Romans, or Ephesians to "explain" to them why¨
obediance 
 SW> to Acts 2:38 isn't necessary for salvation; they deceptively¨
ignore  the 
 SW> fact that the addressees of the epistles of the Bible were those¨
who 
 SW> had OBEYED the Acts 2:38 plan of salvation. 

Steve, have you taken a pair of scissors and cut all of Paul's¨
writings  out of your Bible?  You are confusing something that was¨
said to a  particular group of people at a certain time, as a¨
universal command for  everyone.  But even if you believe that this is¨
a universal command, why  do you place so much emphasis on the baptism¨
(which is only an outward  sign) and very little on "repentance".¨
However, it appears you are basing  an entire theology on a few¨
verses.  If you are sincerely interested in  "rightly dividing the¨
word", then perhaps you should take a concordance  and look up the¨
references to "grace". What is grace?  To whom does the  grace of God¨
apply? 

You probably get mad when folks say that the gifts of God passed away¨
in  the first century (I don't believe that either), but in your¨
theology you  seem to think that God's grace doesn't apply to those¨
who profess to be  believers. It's as though once you claim to be a¨
believer, God doesn't  give you any more breaks. 

I can guarantee you that without the Grace of God and the salvation ¨
provided by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, I will never have eternal¨
life,  and neither will you. I am totally incapable of living a¨
perfect life.   Neither have you, apparently (you've broken at least¨
one direct command of  Jesus in your message to me). 

You say that the promises of God are only for those who obey.  If you¨
are  judged by the same measure with which you judge others, as the¨
scriptures  state, then if you fail to obey at any point you will have¨
lost your 
salvation, because that is how you are judging others.  That's pretty ¨
heavy. 

Steve, I can understand where you are coming from because I have ¨
perfectionist tendencies, as I imagine you do also.  When I look at¨
your  posts, I see what I might have become if God hadn't led me to¨
Romans 14  and a few other scriptures that point out the utter¨
futility of basing  one's salvation on works.  Either Ephesians 2:8-9¨
is true, or God is a  liar, and I choose to believe that God wasn't¨
lying when he inspired Paul  to write those verses. 

I should point out that I believe in the baptism of believers, I¨
believe  in the gift of tongues, I believe that God still heals and¨
performs  miracles. But I don't believe that any of these external¨
works take  precedence over God's soverign grace. I can understand¨
that some believers  may read the Bible and come to the conclusion¨
that these things are  necessary for THEIR 
salvation, and I don't fault them for that.  It's when they start¨
saying  that EVERY believer must go and do likewise that I have a¨
problem.  God  often asks individual believers to do certian things¨
that are not required  of EVERY believer.  God knows that we are all¨
different, and he doesn't  give any of us more than we can handle at¨
one time.  I wish you'd at least  have enough respect for other¨
believers to allow that they might not have  received the same¨
"enlightenment" from God as you have, and not be quite  so quick to¨
jump into judgement mode. 

If I were you, my greatest fear would be of getting to the gates of¨
heaven  and finding someone who is as much a perfectionist as you¨
guarding the  entrance. In any case, if by some chance I don't make it¨
to heaven (and if  Ephesians 2:8-9 is true, then I *will* make it), I¨
don't think it will be  because Steve Winter damned me as "false¨
christian filth." 

Jack 
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