 .------------.    .                                     .   .------------.
 | BIG BAD #1 |    :   [ Enter Text Processing Plant ]   :   | BIG BAD #1 |
 `------------'    :                                     :   `------------'
                   :                                     :
           s$  $s  :              .d"$$"b.               :
           $$  $$ .d""b. .d""b.   $$ $$ $$ .d""b.     $$ s$ .d""$$
 : ::::::: $$  $$ $$  $$ $$  $$ : $$ $$ $$ $$  $$ .ass$$    $$  $$ ::::::: :
           $$""$$ $$  $$ $$ss$$   $$ $$ $$ $$ss$$ $$  $$ $$ ""  $$
 FZZZZZZZZ $$  $$ $$  $$ $$       $$ $$ $$ $$     $$  $$ $$ .d""$$ ZZZZZZZZT
           $$  $$ $$  $$ $$  $$   $$ "" $$ $$  $$ $$  $$ $$ $$  $$
 : ::::::: $$  $$ $$  $$ $$  $$ : $$    $$ $$  $$ $$  $$ $$ $$  $$ ::::::: :
           $$  $$ "TssT" "TssT"   $$    $$ "TssT" "Tss$$ $$ "Tss$$ (tm)
                    :                                    :.. .. "" ..... ...
  HOE E'ZINE #1050  :    "What does it all mean?!#@^"           ______     :
    "Big Bad #1"    :                                       ^..^ oink \9   :
       3/22/00      .              HODGE-PODGE              (oo) ___  /    :
 ... ...... ........:                     MIXED-UP             WW   WW     :
 :                                              EAT-SIT                    .
 :      HOE                                                   HOE
 :      he he he he               0 0 
 :      HOE                        .   - BOO!        ho ho ho ho ho ho ho ho
 .      ha ha ha ha               ___
 :      HOE                                                   HOE
 .
 :      HOE - Harpies Of Eumenides - HOE - Hurtful iOns Extrapolate
 :__________________________________________________________________ ___ __ _

                                A ROBOT CRIES: 

                        [  -   0       -      0      - ]
                         \     ()     ___             /
                          \         |___|           /  - SADNESS DOES NOT
                           \_______________________/  \	        COMPUTE
                                                        NOW I KNOW WHAT IT
							MEANS TO CRY

			this is 
	\		bl00d this is 
	|			dance floor bleeds bl00d motherfucker
	|		this is hoe #1050 
	 \				1050+ 4000 = HP LASERJET 4050 
	  |					with 10baseT = HP LJ4050 N
	 /|\   	  				with tower = HP LJ4050T
       //||\\					++ = HP LJ4050 TN 
		mississippi river so deep and wide
			wide like BIG BAD #1: the file you now read
		I'M NOT THERE (1956): She said the to the fat man, 
			"this is the best song ever written." 
			but i can't see it; I can't see it: 
				however
			I CAN SEE BIG BAD #1 

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

    /**************************************
     * Wacky.C (c) 1993 NewVision Systems *
     *             by Daver               *
     * Call the Ministry of Knowledge     *
     * [401] 943.3446   9600 baud         *
     *         Over 1000 textfiles!       *
     **************************************
     * E-Mail Daver and say you got the # *
     * from Wacky.C !                     *
     **************************************/

 /************************************************

   Just what the heck does this program do?
   Why! It converts whole textfiles into
   wacky text!

       tHiS iS aN eXaMpLe oF wAcKy TeXt!

   Wacky, isn't it? Well, run your text files
   through it, and it'll really annoy the hell
   out of people.

   Usage: wacky <infile >outfile
   Example: wacky <info.txt >info.wck
     would input from info.txt and make it really
     wacky in info.wck! Wacky, eh?

  You can view a file in wacky mode if you
  do a wacky <info.txt

  Wacky merely inputs from stdin and outputs to
  stdout, for you technical types.

 **************************************************/

#include <stdio.h>
#include <ctype.h>
#include <string.h>
char *eof,c[2],str[256]="";
int len=0,i=0;
main()
{
fprintf(stderr,"Wacky v1.0! (c) 1993 Daver/NewVision Systems\n");
fprintf(stderr,"Usage: Wacky <infile >outfile\n");
fprintf(stderr,"   or: Wacky <infile  ;to display text\n");
fprintf(stderr,"       Control-C to abort\n\n");
do {
    eof=fgets(str,255,stdin);
    len=strlen(str);
    for(i=0;i<len;i++)
    {
     if (len%2==1)
     { if (i%2==1) str[i]=tolower(str[i]);
             else str[i]=toupper(str[i]); }
     else
      { if (i%2==1) str[i]=toupper(str[i]);
             else str[i]=tolower(str[i]); }
    }
   if (eof!=NULL) printf("%s",str);
  } while(eof!=NULL);
}

 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::: LOOK INTO THE LIGHT :::::::::::::::::::::::::::

        .-----------------------------------------------------------. 
        | .--------------------------------------------------------. |
        | | .----------------------------------------------------. | |
        | | | .------------------------------------------------. | | |
        | | | | .--------------------------------------------. | | | |
        | | | | | .----------------------------------------. | | | | |
        | | | | | | .------------------------------------. | | | | | |
        | | | | | | | WELL HEY GUYS I'M MOGEL THE EDITOR | | | | | | |
        | | | | | | | OKAY I'M JUST GONNA SAY HELLO HERE | | | | | | |
        | | | | | | | THERE'S A WORLD OF IDEAS OUT THERE | | | | | | |
        | | | | | | | THIS ISSUE HAS JUST A FEW OF THEM! | | | | | | |
        | | | | | | | HOE SAYS A BIG "YES" TO NEW FLAVOR | | | | | | |
        | | | | | | | DO NOT IGNORE THESE PRECIOUS GEMS! | | | | | | |
        | | | | | | | DO NOT LET THEM ROT, OK, THANK YOU | | | | | | | 
        | | | | | | `------------------------------------' | | | | | |
        | | | | | `----------------------------------------' | | | | |
        | | | | `--------------------------------------------' | | | |
        | | | `------------------------------------------------' | | |
        | | `----------------------------------------------------' | |
        | `--------------------------------------------------------' |
         `-----------------------------------------------------------'

                            do you wanna feel this?

 ::::::::::::::::::: OH MY EYES MY EYES! I CAN NOT SEEE E ::::::::::::::::::::

 Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 10:36:44 jpst
 From: A. Hidell <fr0ntman@hokkaido.com>
 To: mogel@hoe.nu

 Yo Mogel, just wanted to say thanx for keeping it real.. peace out.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 19:11:23 PST
 From: mo . <mo_ykims@hotmail.com>
 To: mogel@hoe.nu
 Subject: bookshop myth

 hi mogel

 i thought id write a quick note, well its valentines day today or it was, 
 and i got no cards, well not that i expected any but what the hell, i just 
 felt i had to get that off my chest . Right i think well my thought is that 
 u know all these films and stuff like push the fact that u might meet the 
 man/woman of your dreams in a book shop, this is such a lie as if, have u 
 ever been to a book shop im sure u have , well so have , not to look for 
 men/women but to buy books and i see no one person fluttertin their eyes
 at me and fallin madly in love with me, no u know why cos they are so busy 
 reading their books and wat not to absorbed in their lierary worlds to be 
 concerned with the guy/girl stood next to them, well i reakon this is a 
 conspiracy by the book makin/publishin folk of the big wig world and they do 
 it to make us go look for romance , we find none and in our sullen state we 
 buy a book instead, hey presto they have pumped out another book, kerching, 
 even better , the person buying the book may not even want it but purchased 
 it so as to impress the stunnin man/woman they desire... 

 right nuff said, later
 p.s thanx for takin time out to read this.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2000 02:48:25 -0800 (PST)
 From: Id Gene <Emksa@wowmail.com>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: I hate zine staffs because I will always be a loser.

 I hate you because it's so much easier and less painful than the truth,
 which is that I am jealous of you.  I hate you because you have your
 tribe and the warmth of the campfire that goes with it.  I hate you
 because you have the self-esteem and self-confidence to bring yourself up
 to level where you can attain the things you want and I never will.  Most
 of all, I hate you because you have pride.

 You talk about how much you hate gen-x art fags sitting at their wannabe
 cool-kid elitist lunch table.  You are an art fag.  I am an art fag.  We
 are art fags.

 I hate you because I hate myself.  All I ever wanted was to sit at your
 table.  For that I would have to catch your eye with some writing of
 content.  I may be clever in my living room, but I will never write the
 content you feed on.  I masturbate by thinking this is because I fell off
 a motorcycle as an infant.  This is what I tell myself to avoid the pain
 of admitting that I am not creative or even reflective of the creative
 people around me.

 I tell myself I will kill you.  I create a conversation in my head where
 I tell this to you.  I have created many conversations like this over the
 years.  I also ask you where you live to make my task easier.  A part of
 me that is not a sadist intervenes saying that you shouldn't tell me.  It
 knows I would never kill anyone on purpose, at least while some part of
 this mind lies uncorrupted.  It knows the pain of failing to kill you
 while knowing where you live might corrupt some other sector, perhaps the
 one that says, "leave this situation, go build a new life that you can be
 happy in, this life will only bring you pain".  It knows this would
 probably be bad.  I know this would be very bad.

 Instead of thinking about killing you and everyone else who has wronged
 me by even breathing, I simply think of killing Brian Dennehy.

 I hate you because I hate myself.  I'm crying out to you, "please publish
 me!".  I hate myself even more than I hate Hollywood for making art fags
 hate Fight Club.  I hate art fags.  Someone has an "opinion", and every
 statement regarding whatever subject said art fag has ruined is taken as
 another piece of crap to be examined when toting up the pecking order
 points.  I am not a unique and beautiful snow flake and neither are you.  
 The shit you say to get attention is every bit as worthless as this shit
 that I am spouting right now.  But I keep on typing anyway.  This is why
 I hate myself.  This is why I hate you.

 I started to forget what the hell I was talking about.  So I read some of
 hoe-1000.txt.  I chose the wrong part.  Not much of the elitist crap that
 had inspired me earlier tonite.  Now I just respect hoe writers that much
 more.

 It's 4:37 AM and I'm tired.  It's time to beat off and go to sleep.  Teen
 angst is like sugar.  It revvs me up for a while, but it runs out and
 then I just want to slip into my bed.  I hope I don't remember this when
 I wake up.  I will be so ashamed.

 Thank you for being an audience,
 The Wayside Phantom

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 From: Rhea <rhea@hoe.nu>
 Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 1999 6:40 PM
 To: mogel@hoe.nu
 Subject: (another) HOE submission

                           This sentence is a little overwhelming!
                                                                by Rhea

 I am not cold, but sometimes I hide under my warm woolen coat while shivers
 run up and down my back and arms and legs and my toes feel clammy; I am not
 tired, but sometimes my eyes feel heavy, sleepy, and they sag slowly,
 silently despite my fierce desire to keep them open because I want to see -
 don't I want to see? -- and I want to feel warm - but I'm not cold! - and
 alert and my wide-eyed blue eyes ought to stare passionately, intelligently,
 alertly because they never ever feel heavy because I'm not tired and there's
 too much to see to be tired; I am not sick, but I can't help breathing in
 and out, breath after breath after breath, so this feeling will never end --
 it will never end, no, this feeling will never end -- and my stomach doesn't
 feel queasy because I'm not sick -- it never feels queasy, no, my stomach
 never feels queasy -- even when my emotions sink down to the bottom heavily
 and I don't feel feverish but I'm not cold and I don't feel like letting my
 eyes feel heavy because I'm not sick; and I am not overwhelmed, because I'm
 not overwhelmingly cold or tired or sick while shivers run up and down my
 back and arms and legs and while my eyelids sag heavily or even because this
 feeling - breath after breath - will someday have to end - it all ends, even
 the queasy feeling that I don't have because I'll never have it if it ends,
 no, I'll never have it if it ends -- but if  I am overwhelmed, the cause
 is simple: I am overwhelmed because I am!

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Letter to the Editor
 by: Anodyne

 a hand-delivered letter, handwritten, flowing script with even pressure, 
 ball-point pen slightly yellowed unlined notepad paper, coffee ring upper 
 right corner extending off the page, with about .65 of the circle's area
 on the page, dimensions of the sheet approximately 15x30 cm, sheet is
 extremely thin and flimsy

 To whom it may concern:

	What happened to the HOE I grew up with?  You know, delivered
 daily by a uniformed high school student, proudly emblazoned with that
 hot pink acronym.  HOE used to mean family.  Now it means smut!

	You'll have to forgive my handwriting at this point, I'm getting a
 little agitated.  Your editorial team is obviously composed of slack-jawed
 miscreants.  Could it be that you gentlemen have lifted your long-standing
 injunction against hiring immigrants? By taking jobs away from hard-working
 Americans, you directly support the influence of non-European ancestry in
 the working class.  I can smell Their taint on your pages.

	I wouldn't be so upset, except for the fact that we Christians have
 a little concept called Trust.  The meaning of this word apparently escapes
 you, so I will make this brief.  I trusted you to produce a publication
 worthy of my coffee table.  When my friends come over for tea, I demand
 their complete satisfaction.  Why is HOE no longer a staple of conscientious
 home decorating?  My Trust is Violated.

	Furthermore, I am appalled that I once condoned this very publication
 to my grandchildren, in fond rememberance of your "Garden Glory" section
 that I had enjoyed for many years.  Your tips on marigold cultivation were
 priceless.  Now, you have words like "poop" and phrases like "spank me" in
 your pages.  In trying to make the world safe for them, I am now forced to
 lump HOE in with DOOM, both subverters of my Vision for the Future.

	Thus far I have been able to protect them from Satan, and I intend
 to continue to do so indefinitely.  I am terminating my subscription to
 HOE.

                                                        Sincerely,
                                                        {signature}
                                                        Eleanor Roosevelt

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 05:00:06 EST
 From: Loquicious@aol.com
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: HOE%20SUBMISSION

 Great website. I must thank the vagabond I believe you call UNRELATED for 
 pointing me to it. After reading most everything here, I decided to send
 one for your amusement... perhaps you will find it interesting enough to
 use. Oh, if you do choose to use it, please us Sabazio as the authors
 name. 

 Level 2

 the sadness weeps from me in oily rivers that churn bright paths down my 
 skin. i know not its origin, perhaps i am sinking into apathetic decay
 after surfing endorphins for months. can you experience an endorphin crash?
 brain drain pain.

 carlos has reached into me and tugged at the yaqui deep inside, but his 
 efforts are futile. my metaphysical self is only partially constructed,
 and  my real self is a waste. 

 i remember my solitary epiphany, and long for another.
 isn't one perfect moment of clarity enough for most people?
 my friend tommy once told me he was jealous of me for that vision. he
 would  sell his soul for a moment like that. he tries much to hard.
 the spiritual side is the one we must rely on when times become confused,
 but  mine is under construction. perhaps, reconstruction is more accurate.
 where is the blind faith of the christians when you need it?
 if there is one thing i regret in my life, it's being born with curiosity.
 if  i had just been a normal kid with a normal life in a normal family.
 right now i could be the quintessential redneck.
 get up - go to work - go home - watch vanna whites boobs bounce - drink a 
 budwiser - sleep. repeat until dead.

 i think i am finished with life, or at least this part of it, but i refuse
 to  abdicate and move on towards the next level. if this were a game,
 perhaps i would be more excited.

 level 2

 find all of the power-ups, become enlightened, move on.
 i can recall very little of the more meaningful things in my past. i
 remember absolutely trivial and inane things, though. a bug watching me
 watch him as i followed his day. how very thoreau of me.  anger hovers in
 the background, an angry wasp yearning to lash out with it's poison remarks
 and vicious perceptions. tomorrow i move into my new house. how fitting
 that it is as empty now as i feel. did i give up to much when i cleansed
 myself of my past? am i simply a vessel awaiting someone else's desires
 and direction? what do i take with me when i go? 
 my shoes
 another pair of them.
 same as the last pair?
 I hope not.
 it is amazing that the blink of a cursor mocks me. it seems to laugh at
 my plight, knowing that i force onto the blank page all the emotion i have
 left. it seems to know that this is the last of who i was. i am so sick of
 trying to vomit words upon a page, but i can't seem to stop. i dry heave a
 letter at 
 a time.
 o
  n
   e
     a
      t
       a
        t
         i
          m
           e
 complete with shudders and sweats.
 my muse is gone, or perhaps she is now real and has lost the power over me 
 she once had. no longer am i compelled to spout profound verse in hopes of 
 conveying the emotions that haunt me. she is my reality now. we start a new 
 life together next week. my happiness is locked away in a closet, somewhere 
 in the recesses of my cranium. i wish she were here to let it out.

 i am on hold.

 please don't hang up as your attempt to access your more joyous emotions is 
 important to us, and we value your continued reliance upon our resources. 
 your request will be handled by the next available neuron. thank you.
 perhaps i should be thinking of all the good things that will come in the 
 future, or maybe the finer memories I have would serve to soothe me. 

 i do not like being stuck in the present. 
 i do not like it on a boat, i do not like it in a moat. i do not like it
 sam i am. narcissism is a fine art. if you like yourself, you can enjoy
 the solitary moments in life.

 so is it better to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune?
 i think sleeping is a better option.

 --->> sabazio <<---

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 09:02:38 GMT
 From: Big Daddy Bill <bigdaddybill1@hotmail.com>
 To: mogel@hoe.nu
 Subject: liar

 Unrelated is a liar in HOE #1013. I know John Hartman personally as a
 friend, and those turn of events never happened. I just thought you
 should know how much of a motherfucking liar he is. Have a good one!

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: 18 Dec 1999 23:23:00 -0800
 From: Doors <bobl@giantsfan.com>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: Submission for your consideration

 Cool Ezine. Decidedly strange.

 How's this? If you do use it please list my name as Mr. Mojo Risin', if
 you don't mind

 Hmm.
 Where's the ground?
 Where's the sky?
 Where's the horizon?
 Did I go somewhere?
 Where am I going?
 Where is everyone?
 What the hell is this?
 Is that a light?
 no wait it's not
 dammit I'm getting a migraine
 well shit where's the pills
 ah hell who cares
 I think I'm falling
 I can't see shit
 my dick tickles
 just like on a rollercoaster
 that means I'm falling
 wheee!
 Is that the ground?
 wow I guess it is
 Bye.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

                    This was born simply from boredom.
                
     I wonder why my friends cannot comprehend the value of a promise. I
 turned 18 this weekend.  It was very exciting although scary none-the-less. 
 I bought my first legal pack of cigarettes and I finally got off my ass and
 got my liscense.  Anyway, I realized that my friends can be inconsiderate
 bastards at times.  Like my friend Jeremy.  Last April he moved to
 Louisiana.  I was upset that he was leaving, for no apparent reason, but I
 had his solemn word that he would be back for my birthday.  I believed him
 because he has never missed my birthday, ever.  I recieved a call from
 him around noon on the big day to tell me that he was indded not coming
 home.  His reasoning was "I hate Ohio, you know that."  I wonder why, if
 he cares so much, as he claims to, that he cannot endure this state for
 just one day.  Shit, an hour would have been fine.  I just wanted for him
 to give me a hug and say happy birthday in person.  Maybe hit up a
 McDonalds and chat for a bit.  Well, life goes on, right?
     My best male friend missed my birthday too.  But there is no excuse for
 that.  He lives 20 minutes away.  It's bad enough he didn't come see me, let
 alone the reason why he didn't.  He wanted to have sex with some chick he
 works with.  How are you going to pass up your BEST FRIEND'S 18th BIRTHDAY
 so you can get laid??  To top that all off, he still hasn't called even to
 say happy belated.  It's sad really.  
     My ex keeps calling.  He is convinced that because I once loved him,
 that I will continue to put up with his bullshit for who knows how long.  He
 has a gf and I continually remind him of that but I don't think he has yet
 learned the value of a monogamous relationship. It's not even really
 monogamy, it's trust.  This girl trusts him not to fuck her over and not to
 lie to her and that is all he does to her. I am tempted to call her and tell
 her this but I doubt she would believe me.  Why does love (lust) render
 people blind?  And where is the line between love and lust drawn?  Did I
 love him or did I simply lust the feeling of love, however I may have
 misinterpretted it?
     I wonder where the tradition of putting up Christmas trees originated? 
 Mine is fake so, though I don't know why the custom exists anyway, I think
 it defeats the purpose.
     I was walking downtown today and I saw several posters taped to light
 poles which read, "Leave the Christ in Christmas, don't x him out for x-mas.
 Sponsered by the Mystic Knights of the Ku Klux Klan"  Wasn't Christ Jewish
 or am I terribly mistaken?  AHHH!!!!  Damn hypocrites.  *I think my New
 Year's resolution will be to quit cussing.*
     I have a Physics test tomorrow so I suppose I should go attempt to
 study for it.  Attempt being the key word.  I wonder why I ramble on so
 about things no one cares about except I?  I guess it doesn't matter.  I
 have vented and wondered and am satisfied.  And my self satisfaction is all
 I care about at this point in time.
     Yeah!!!!  I am finally 18!!!!!  Anyhow, the physics book is screaming
 my name so, until we meet again, good fight, good night.

 This text file was brought to you by: ~Angeldust~

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:05:26 GMT
 From: weazell 666 <weazell666@hotmail.com>
 To: mogel@hoe.nu
 Subject: blah,blah,fukinblah.......

 look here im ZeLL AnD I Do want 2 know 1 thing. are u f/m?
 2. Age
 3.what town are u from?
 4.$$$$$$$$$$$$$$`~ARE U SINGLE~`?????(only if you are a F.)
                                     (if you are a guy and)
                                     (I find out your fukin)
                                     (WITH MY HEAD-_-I WILL)
                                     (FUK YoUR COMPUTER HARD!!!!!!)
 Im 21 rok on
              later
                   writeback
                            have some FUKINFUNFUKIN!!!!!!!@!~@!@$#%&

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 01:29:43 -0500
 From: dayna <thunder@tnn.net>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: HOE SUBMISSION

   i figured i would take a shot at this and if i get rejected well..shit
   happens right? surely i can rant on..and i've got enough on my mind
   right now to probably write a book.
   
     have you ever met that one person in life whose mere existance is
   obviously some cruel joke from god (or someone) just for you to view?
   there's this one female who completely amazes me that she has made it
   this far in life. not saying she is stupid but she does like "acting"
   the part when the time seems fit. like when some guy comes near she
   automatically loses about half of her brain cells and has been heard a
   few times actually giggling so much she snorts. okay by now i am sure
   you can see how revolting this can be to anyone that is somewhat
   normal and has a brain with the ability to process thoughts (of any
   kind).
   
     well the other day i happened upon my personal joke in disguise and
   she of course didn't let me down. she at one point was someone i
   considered an acquaintance however once i really got to know how
   incredibly annoying and demeaning to the whole female species she was
   i felt compelled to just voice my opinion. momma always said, "if you
   don't have something nice to say well shut yer damn mouth child!" well
   momma didn't warn me about females like this. so out it went.
   everything that i could possibly say about how much better my
   existence would be if she were nowhere in it. and amazingly enough she
   was shocked by this news.
   
     how is it possible for one female to crawl out from under a rock
   daily to surface and annoy one and all. okay it's surely something
   deeper than she acts ditzy. she is completely annoying in the aspect
   that if someone does not pay full attention to her she resorts to
   either throwing a temper tantrum (yes i have witnessed this) and or
   going off on some self pity rant about how bad off she is. not to
   mention she has on countless occassions mentioned how "oh i forgot to
   eat today". oh puhlease! okay i may have forgotten where i placed my
   keys before, forgotten someone's name, hell forgot my name, but eating
   isn't something i think i have ever just "forgotten" to do. has anyone
   aside from this chick?
   
      upon thinking deeply about this situation i found myself wondering
   if by some odd chance i wasn't just hormonal about this so i asked
   around to see how others felt and well my results were interesting (to
   say the least). of course most males were in "awe" of her however the
   females found her not only annoying but most of them agreed how they
   would enjoy watching her take a long walk off a short bridge. so maybe
   it's females. are we really as catty as men think?
   
      well if i'm catty then sue me. i don't even care. all i know is
   that surely someone somewhere out there can totally relate and can
   sympathize when i say that i really wish the aliens would just keep
   her next time.

   dayna

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 02:38:30 -0500
 From: Paul Neri <quiksilver315@ids.net>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: HOE SUBMISSION

 hey mogel, what happpend! where is the millenium issue? i hope you had a
 good new years and partied harty.  here is a submission for ya.

 How stupid can one person be?

 A thought that is often over looked, because of the lack of time to
 actually give a thorough definiton.  During the course of any given day,
 the average person (who has average intelligence), runs into approxamitely
 3 stupid people.  These "stupid" people do not include people who are
 mentally handicapped, or have some sort of genuine excuse. And don't fuck
 with me on that, my aunt had downs syndrome, I know the deal. The "stupid"
 people are the ones who just don't think about what they are saying or
 doing, not to mention the effects of their words or actions.  I am sure
 that this subject has been tackled in numerous rants, rages, deep thought
 diaries, and probably on this very e-zine, but i feel the compelling need
 to bring it up and give my opinion.  Yes I know, "here is another one",
 but please bear with me, you may find it interesting, if not, well, piss
 on you!

 The average person has an IQ of about 125-135 (if i remember correctly if
 not tell me).  We will give an average person a name, say, Pat. Pat is
 self-sufficient by the norm, can funtion in a society, maintains a job,
 cares for some loved one, if not a multiple of loved ones, ie. children,
 and has a good self-esteem.  Pat works, has a couple of kids, dog, good
 paying job, lives comfortably, and enjoys life.  If you can't imagine the
 kind of person I am describing, you are a moron. stop now. shut your
 computer off. find dictionary, DO NOT OPEN! repeatedly bash forehead with
 dictionary.  if pain results, find pliers, preferably vice grips, grasp
 testicle or nipple and squuueeeezzzzzze. if pain persists, you may come
 back to computer only after bathing in isopropyl alcohol.

 Then there is your average "stupid person" lets name him Conrad.  Conrad
 lived with his parents until a year ago, when they finally kicked him out.  
 He now lives in a pit of filth in a house with some other people.  He has
 no money and what he does have he spends on rent and beer.  *there is
 nothing wrong with spending money on beer, but use caution, food may be
 necessary after drinking beer, believe me, its a bitch* Conrad was able to
 graduate high school, has minimal intelligence, functions poorly in
 society and has no loved ones to care for.  If you do not imagine this,
 well, i won't put you through the pain again.

 If Derek and Conrad were to run into each other Derek would just ignore
 Conrad and continue on with life.  Conrad wouldn't remember what happened,
 and the world would be fine.  Here is the problem though.  As all this is
 happening another "Derek" named Jim, has to explain to Kevin, a person
 unique to this story, about what he is doing.

 Kevin is close in intelect and ability as Jim, unfortunately, Kevin is so
 stubborn that nothing gets through to the brain for processing.  Kevin has
 difficulty with foot-floor concentration, otherwise known as walking, and
 visual perception, seeing things.
 
 example:

	Jim and Kevin work at a resturant.  Jim is a prep cook and Kevin
 is a maintence man.  Jim is slicing mushrooms from a large box with a
 large container of cut mushrooms next to him.  Kevin walks up Jim and
 asks "whatcha doin?" *note: Kevin has previously shown signs of negative
 intelligence.  Jim responds "peeling grapes, what do you think I am
 doing?".  Kevin's reply you ask, "oh...i wasn't sure". moron? yes.

 example2:

	Jim tells Kevin to remove ice from the doorjam of a large walk-in
 freezer at the resturant.  Kevin is amazingly sucessful in this mission.  
 Jim tells Kevin to remove ice chips and chunks from floor of freezer to
 prevent an icy floor and someone falling.  Kevin says "yeah i did that".
 Jim is impresed and returns to mushrooms. Later, while walking into
 freezer, Jim slips on ice.  Jim asks Kevin for an excuse, which is " i
 didn't want to go in there, its too cold." fucking idiot? definately.

 In conclusion; It is not always the "Derek" that causes stress, but the
 "Kevin".  Dealing with poverty and other large issues are seemingly
 minute compared to dealing with intelligent people with no common sense.

 * luckily Kevin had a cracked rib that day, so Jim was able to punish
 Kevin by simply flicking the cracked rib with his middle finger.

 - Trimmerhead

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 From: PassinEH
 Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2000 9:48 PM
 To: Students
 Subject: Lost Items PLEASE READ

 Student Body of Westminster College-
 Unfortunately I have misplaced a couple of very personal items.  First of
 all, I am missing my Black Sabbath t-shirt that I bought at a 1986 concert
 in Philadelphia.  Also, I am missing a very large and valuable collection
 of Pokemon cards, along with magic cards I like to impress my friends
 with.  I know every trick in the book dogg.  If you have any information
 regarding these items, please call ext. 5073.  
 
 Help me out peeps, 
 Rusty Passini

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 TITLE:	On Our Turpentine Farm
 AUTHOR: Isaac Avalos
 DATE: 1999.09.27 12.31.20

 +woooh there
 -what matter, you fool
 +hack up there, hack up there fig
 +you hear me

 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +Weeeelll, the work ain't hard
 -mmmm hmmm
 +-and the weather is warm
 
 +drove our mule to the water trough
 +wouldn't drink, and he wouldn't back off
 +with turpentine, we stroked him good
 +drunk all the water in our neighborhood

 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +Weeeelll, the work ain't hard
 -mmmm hmmm
 +-and the weather is warm

 +the hogs wouldn't grunt, and the cows wouldn't moo
 +tried to think, what in the world to do
 +we gave them some turpentine, to make them so
 +dog'arn fools come back for more

 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +Weeeelll, the work ain't hard
 -mmmm hmmm
 +-and the weather is warm

 +the horse we had done seen his best
 +walk four blocks and he sit down to rest
 +sit down one day in some turpentine
 +now the poor horse, he done lost his mind

 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +Weeeelll, the work ain't hard
 -mmmm hmmm
 +-and the weather is warm

 +we had old dog, so dog'arn mean
 +worst ol' dog we ever had seen
 +we fixed him up, out in d'-wood-shed
 +now when we call him, he goes under d' bed

 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +Weeeelll, the work ain't hard
 -mmmm hmmm
 +-and the weather is warm

 +our boss man is a lazy hound
 +chew'es tobacco; spits on the ground
 +smokes his pipe, and lays in the shade
 +lazyest man that ever was laid

 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +On our turpentine farm
 -mmmm hmmm
 +Weeeelll, the work ain't hard
 -mmmm hmmm
 +-and  the  weather  is  warm

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 19:45:33 -0500
 From: budzekkj@notes.udayton.edu
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: HOE SUBMISSION

 procrastination reacts with freezing temperatures yielding.. hoe submission
 blurted out uncontrollably by liberty

 Ahh. The sound of silence. Well, silence plus the fans in the thirty-some
 computers in this lab. and the sounds of the keys on this particular
 keyboard. and the occasional growl from my stomach telling me that even
 though my medication is an appetite suppressant, it needs food eventually.
 and every so often a sniff from me as i attempt not to goo up the lab's
 keyboards with my snot that, even though it's below 30 in the lab and i'm
 typing with gloves and a scarf on, goes to show the freezing temperature
 of snot is something like negative forty because it isnt even
 crystallizing. granted, the tip of my nose is numb so i can't feel the
 still-not-frozen snot drip out of my nostril and don't even notice it
 until it splats onto the keyboard, just missing my purple, numb fingers.
 sure, i'm typing with gloves, but they're one-size-fits-none magic gloves
 bought for a dollar at walgreens with the fingers cut off so i can
 function. function meaning type, pick my nose, and smoke.. all with my
 gloves on. the only problem is that my fingers get cold, making me wonder
 why i have gloves on at all. sure, my palms are toasty, but how cold do
 they ever get? i never remember complaining about cold palms, ever. and
 that could be taken as a mildly amusing masturbastion joke were i male.
 sigh, and yet another moment of masturbastion humor flies fleeting past me
 due to my pesky ovaries. so i ask myself, why? why am i in this lab at
 8:42 on a thursday night, typing away at an indifferent computer? and the
 only possible explanation can be: because i have an engineering statics
 test tomorrow that i am brutally unprepared for and studying will just
 make me feel like a slacker for not having studied the same material a
 week ago when we covered it in class instead of sleeping in someone's cold
 basement. again with the cold. and my feet. my feet, miraculously, are
 warm inside my $5 fluffyashell slippers that i bought yesterday at
 meijers. she whose feet have never been warm in the history of creation,
 has warm fluffy slippers and wears them everywhere, even though it makes
 walking through snow somewhat difficult. and cold. cold i tell you. cold!!
 ah, fuck off.

 - - -
 http://budzek.com                   budzekkj@notes.udayton.edu
 http://www.geocities.com/lbtyblle/          AOL-IM: LbtyBelle

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 00:31:18 -0800
 From: robino <robino1@hotmail.com>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: HOE SUBMISSION

 as i was sitting by my window watching for the publisher's clearing house
 man to come and give me the million dollars i won, a little bird flew to
 my window sill and tweeted in my ear that you have been "wearing makeup
 and dressing like a girl..." i told that bird to lay off the sauce and
 quit drinking from mrs. jamison's bird bath because she spikes it with
 canadian vodka and there's no way in a flaming homosexual asian
 botanist's dream that you'd put on eyeliner but then again, i dont know
 any flaming homosexual asian botanists...

 By: The Great Robino

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

                        Why AnonGirl Stinks by AIDS

 1. Refer to HOE #988 ("MORE THOUGHTS ON WHY I SMELL SO BAD"), in which
    she blatantly steals my MARTIN LUTHER motif, first so brilliant
    crafted in HOE #960 ("#ASCII OUTSIDER ART MANIFESTO".)

 2. Refer to her inability to actually make 95 theses, rather suffering
    with ten, showing her native inferiority to my AIDS style of banter. 

 3. Refer to her "chaffe dick" problem. There is no HOE about this. You'll
    have to ask around. 

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 "A Computer Game Idea I Had When I Was Twelve"
 by Swiss Pope

 Destroyer
 ---------
 Dateline: 3027 A.D.
 Scenario: After WWIII when the entire human race was wiped out except the
           few scientists who were hidden in a bomb shelter until the
           armageddon had ended.

	The scientists left there underground abode after the skies turned
 blue again. They came out of their shelter, and found everything in ruins.
 Everything was destroyed. The trees, the water, the grass. A desolate
 wasteland. Fortunately the scientists had a bit of knowledge saved from
 the olden days. After 15 years of barely surviving, eating the very few
 plants that weren't radiated and drinking out of a hidden spring of
 unpolluted water. They scooped up all the nuclear radiation they could
 (wearing their anti-rad suits) and created a huge radiation dump. The
 scientists had children and their children learned to plant plants, scoop
 radiation, and tell the difference between contaminated and clean water.
 It was 3025. The scientists were doing experiments with their fusion
 reactors and computers, and came up with a way to travel through the
 space-time continuum. They had a plan. If they could wipe out entire human
 civilization in the past, they would be able to breed their own race in
 the past and avoid the ill-fated future. Using the radiation dump as fuel,
 and building Destroyer units which were used in WWIII, though out-of-shape,
 they sent you, a grandson to the Thunderdrome, their shelter under the
 surface, to use the timepod and collect as many discoveries for
 the betterment of society as possible.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 "Ron Gonzales Makes the Trains Run on Time" by Nyarlathotep

 Gelato... YOM YOM!

 In addition to buses, the Silicon Valley mass transit organization,
 VTA, also runs electric trolleys known as the Lightrail. Until
 recently the Lightrail system consisted of a long north-south leg that
 covered the majority of San Jose.  For those of you not in the know,
 San Jose is a rather large city, at least 12 miles from North to
 south, and populated by 850,000 people. It also fancies itself the
 "Capitol of the Silicon Valley."

 On December 20th, 1999 the brand new east-west leg of the lightrail
 system came into operation. Ok, to be fair about a 2 mile segment of
 it already existed, but has not been in service for at least the past
 6 months, while the rest of the system was added. The new leg goes
 from the northern terminus of the north-south segment to downtown
 mountain view, a distance of about 8 miles. Now, there was some
 problem getting ticket machines for the stations on the new leg, so
 until February 17, 2000 the new leg is completely free. Now, with this
 background in place, I can tell my story.

 It was a bright and cheery sunday in January. The temperature was
 about 60 degrees, and we were on a quest. A quest to get the Italian
 treat known as gelato. Gelato is Italian style ice cream, which is
 richer and creamier than the normal stuff you get.  Our quest could
 have only one final destination, Gelato Classico in downtown Mountain
 View. And what better way to get there than the brand new Lightrail
 system, which is 1/4 of a mile, as the crow flies from our
 apartment. Or 3/4 of a mile as the person walks, due to pesky fences
 and such. Regardless, we decided to take advantage of the free ride to
 experience something new.

 Of course, as we were walking towards the station, about 1 block a
 away, a trolley came in the direction we wanted to go, so we would be
 forced to wait for the next one.  Not a big deal because, as I said,
 it was sunny and warm. We sat at the station, and 15 minutes later the
 next trolley came and we embarked on our trip. Overall the trip was an
 uneventful 25 minutes. However, at one point the problem with taking
 the Lightrail became appearant. The doors only stay open for something
 like 15 seconds at most stops, and it is hard to predict exactly where
 the train will stop. A couple of women just missed getting in to the
 doors at one stop, and either the driver didn't see them, or didn't
 care.

 Upon arrival to downtown Mountain View, we walked down Castro Street
 to Gelato Classico.  On a whim, we both got Bavarian Mint. It was very
 good. After finishing our gelato we walked down the street a little,
 and stopped at a book shop. At this point we decided to head home. We
 luckily made it to the station (which is the western terminus) half a
 minute before the trolley left, so we were able to hop aboard. The
 ride back was also about 25 minutes long. Overall it was an ok
 experience, although I am not so sure I would take the Lightrail just
 to get Gelato again.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 "Meditations on the Page Down Key"
 by Mogel

	I bet you guys hit that key a lot, you jerks.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Title: isaac7
 Author: Isaac Avalos
 Date: 00.02.06

 what can I say.
 I have nothing to tell you.
 Go away.

 what can I say.
 you know it all.
 like the baby knows it all.
 thats why babies dont pay attention to me.

 what can I say.
 quit looking at me.
 quit looking seriously.
 quit looking over here.
 quit looking over where I am.
 quit looking here.
 quit looking.
 quit it.

 I shall take the head to water.
 momma, i shall be down.
 I am down soon in the water.
 I shall take the head.
 ok.
 keep looking away.
 keep away.
 your hair is soft gray.

 Random play.
 TOday, I think, I will play, toDay.
 little yellow.
 what is your name?
 what do I call you?
 yittle yellow.

 MrRoboto will save us.
 MrRoboto is up in the sky.
 MrRoboto is down in the ground.
 MrRoboto doesn't mind if we take hella dump

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 BREAKFAST by Anodyne

        Two boots were in the doorway and light became shadow.  Fiercely
 silhouetted against the sky, Jackson pushed forward and the room gave way.
 A customer nearest the door looked up from his scrambled eggs.  The guy
 in the corner smiled into his cigarette.  Sid's Place was happening today.
        Jackson's eyes never strayed from the waitress's hips.  Life alive
 and hot heat.  It was the greenness of the green hills and the vigorous
 redness of his arteries.  He ambled over to her, and thus undaunted in
 the end she came to him.
        "My name is Jackson.  Knock off work for five minutes and have a
 coffee and a smoke with me."
        Her hands lept to the apron ties.  Her second reply was, "Just in 
 time.  I can go for a break, Jackson."  She turned to the table she was
 waiting on, then to him as they walked away.  "I'm Melissa".
        They went up to the counter, and at a gesture from Jackson
 a pockmarked boy arrived and went to fetch the coffee.  Melissa sighed
 and sat.  "This place is killing me", she groaned, reaching for a butt.
 It was drawn from the pack quickly and it was at her lips faster.
 Jackson had the match for it.
        "Melissa... Melissa?!"  A balding man swept around the corner,
 perspiring.  He huffed, "I need you to clean three tables.  14..17..19."
 His finger indicated the direction.
        Jackson rose and turned to face the balding man.  His lips parted
 and the silken syllables were the world.  "Brother, the lady is on break
 but you're not.  Do it yourself."
        "Who the fuck are you!  I'm Sid?, don't you know?, the manager of
 this place?, and I say? my tables get cleaned now by the lady here?
 Melissa?"  The balding man was livid.  Almost.
        Jackson looked, loved, into Melissa's eyes infinitely but it so
 happened that she didn't even notice.  So she sang out, "Sid, I quit!
 I'm done! It's been wonderful!", tugging at Jackson's elbow.  He
 followed with that arm to her side.  They parted together, leaving Sid
 and the pockmarked boy looking at each other.
        "Pour that fucking coffee out and go clean 14, 17, and 19, kiddo."
        Melissa's mind soared in triumph but met turbulence.  She
 was missing something.   "Wait...!  How did you know I smoked?"  Jackson 
 flung the exit wide and his nostrils flared and his eyes widened and he
 stood in full view with his love.
        "The right woman smokes."
        The guy in the corner chuckled in spite of himself and scrubbed
 out his cigarette.    

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 01:12:03 -0500
 From: cjarni <cjarni@miesto.sk>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: ODE TO GASOLINE by hambone

	Gasoline, you are the best.
	Formed from combinations of liquid hydrocarbons, your molecules
 emit a strong odor.  Maybe "strong" is not the right word.  Maybe
 scintillating, mesmerizing, and wondrous would be more accurate words to
 use.
	But, gasoline, you are not normally treasured for your smell.
 Sweet-smelling roses are often given to man's potential mates on
 Valentine's Day, but these roses are not doused in gasoline despite your
 sweet aroma.  No, your everyday uses are much more mundane.
	People use you to power their cars.  Whether they drive a beat-up
 old Dodge and fill it with your 87-octane variety, or a brand new Porsche
 (which they will often fill with 93-octane or better), they all need you.
 You are what makes the world go round (as well as the cars' wheels.) You
 do all these things without complaint and have never once asked us to
 unfetter you from your bond of servitude to us.
	But let us no longer discuss these things, for they represent the
 harsher side of the reality of the life of gasoline.  Let us talk instead
 of your true nature.  For who among us has not seen the beatiful displays
 of gasoline when spilled into a puddle of water?  Stunning multicolored
 displays caused by the refraction of light in the gasoline are especially
 pleasing to stoners and acid freaks, but can be appreciated by anyone.
	You are also highly flammable.  Any list of your qualifications
 for a job should not leave out this indispensable attribute.  Fire is like
 your long-lost brother who went to Africa 5 years ago and was never seen
 again. Then, one day, he returns to your door, and although he is clad in
 only a shredded, dirty toga caked with mud and shit, the simple fact that
 he is alive sends you into ecstatic rapture.
	His name is Jim.
	This is why, when you come into contact with fire, we can see your
 bliss as the rapidly expanding blaze engulfs us, the observers.
	Once I made napalm.  I submerged some styrofoam blocks into a tub
 of you, gasoline, and you might say it was like love at first sight
 because the chemistry really clicked between you two.  In about 5,000
 blinks of an eye the napalm was created, the prodigal son of your
 marriage, and the family was destined to achieve great heights (of fire)
 once we lit the napalm with the lighter.  My friend (we'll call him 'Buck'
 to preserve anonymity) burned off all the hair on his hand during this
 act.  But it was a proud wound that he wore, almost like a treasured
 battle scar, for he had been burned by the glorious NAPALM, the enchanting
 product of gasoline and the once-innocent styrofoam.
	Gasoline, you are like a star that twinkles in the sky when all
 the rest remain still.  Is this twinkling caused perhaps by your making
 everything blurry when your fumes hit my eyes?  Or maybe it is caused by
 the lack of oxygen to my brain when my lungs are busy holding in gas
 vapors instead of pure air, as I struggle to retain consciousness.  
 Regardless, it is a beautiful thing, and you are blessed, blessed greater
 than any to come before you, far greater than kerosene or so-called
 "natural" gas, which pale in comparison to your unbelievable splendour.
	Gasoline, you are the greatest.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 subj: gross                  area: The Hands of Small Childredate: 07/22/97
 from: Genius                 note: New user access           time: 9:15am
   to: All                    stat: [Normal]         rep: 1   msg#: 2/4

 Well nobody else has posted here so I think I willl post about something
 that happend last night that was fucked up.  OK well first of all me and
 some of my friends were outside DQ just eating some ice cream when this
 piece of shit car pulls up.  It had this scrubby looking 40 year old man
 in it and 2 girls maybe 14 or 15.  One was ugly and the other was ok.  
 Anyway they get some food and get back in the car and just sit there.  
 Then they get back in and sit and eat.

 And then they started acting real weird the ok one who was closet to the old
 scrubby man started staring at us.  So I waved just to mess with them cus
 I mess with a lot of people.  Then she starts laughing her head off for
 no reason and wouldn't stop.  All my friends thought this was pretty
 strange.  So then when they back out they hit a curb so we are all
 laughing and yelling stuff and he yells something stupid like he got his
 license at K-mart.  Then were all laughing at him cus he is a retard.  
 Then he says the strangest thing that I've ever heard which is gross any
 way you think about it.  He said "You'd have trouble driving to if you
 had a hand down your pants".  I don't know if he was refering to the
 girls or himself but they didn't look like sisters and he didn't look
 like there dad.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

                        Altrocks and The Gay Monkey
                        ---------------------------

 "Hi, I'm Altrocks."
 "I don't care. I'm a gay monkey Now bend over !"

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 I'm Motherfucking Quarex, That's Why!
 by Basehead

     Fuck girls, man. FUCK THE BREASTED SEX.  They have got these things on
 their chest, that I don't.. or at least, they have slightly larger ones,
 and that makes them special?  WHAT THE FUCK EVER.  I get mistaken for a
 girl all the time, but no guys ever ogle me or ask me out.  What is with
 that?  Why won't even pathetic guys ask me out?  ANSWER ME THAT, WHORES.
 If it has something to do with me watching wrestling all the time, then by
 god, I don't need girls anyway because WRESTLING is the ONE THING that 
 keeps me from ENDING IT ALL.

     Remember how I said in the beginning of one of my recent HOE files,
 after referencing the Dudley Boyz, that it would be my last wrestling
 reference?  Why did I write that?  I bet it was because some motherfucking
 breasted beast told me wrestling was dumb and in case she was reading it I
 didn't want to talk about wrestling!  I'M SUCH AN IDIOT.

     You know, girls aren't all that great.  I mean they're so obviously
 inferior in every way.  I'll tell you this much: put me up against ANY OF
 YOUR FUCKING VILLAGE'S GIRLS in the Caber Toss and we'll see who's
 victorious.  I can't help that I'm basically a roman god misincarnated as
 a text-file writer.  No, I can't help that.  I can't help my locks that
 flow like some Fabio-seque cover from a trashy romance novel.  So tell me,
 WHY DO ALL THESE FUCKING BEAVER-TOTING BIMBOS HATE ME FOR MY BEAUTY?
 That's really the last explanation left.  I'm obviously the very nicest
 and best person God ever put on His green earth.  Everything about me
 reeks of importance, integrity, wit, intelligence, and virtue.  

    Well, I'm off to tonight's Vampire LARP where I will play a very
 debonnaire Tremere and seduce every goth hottie that crosses my path.

    And when I confront them and they query, "Why would I want you?"

    I'll say... READ THE TITLE OF THIS FUCKING FILE, SLUT.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:27:13 +0530
 From: pravin <pravin.connection@wmi.co.in>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: HOE SUBMISSION:DISPATCHES FROM THE FRONT

                                                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                  ##################
                                                  ###    ####    ###
                                                  ##################
 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$%^yu****%
 #$$$$$$$$$$$^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&&&&&)))))))_________||||||||||++++++++++|_
 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
 \|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||\\


 I am not sure if               is the door through which you get a
 glimpse of Heaven or Hell ;
 For it is only in heaven or hell (if they do exist!?), that it is
 possible to see such beauty,
 and with such clarity ,dianond -like !
 spurts of imagination,
 we are the riders of the storm,
 The "riders of the storms";
 getting a high!
 seeing a New Dawn
 out here...........
 it's Revolution baby,
 so don't try to stop it!

 The world seems like
 a fancy dress ball.
 only my mask had no eyes,
 and the wine was blood.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 "Dreaming" by Trimmerhead

	Hmm.  After reading all these amazing stories, articles and rants
 on HOE I am sitting here thinking about some of it and realizing that I
 tend to have these kind of conversations with myself as I work.  On a
 normal day I get up early drive by the beach to get a coffee, then go get
 in a truck to cut lawns for a few hours.  While cutting these lawns I ride
 on a large, loud mower, and I have to wear earphones to prevent me from
 going deaf.  I have seen earphones with built in speakers so you can listen
 to music but they are very expensive like $60.  That's a little much for me.
	Anyway, while riding around enjoying the monotonous sounds of the
 engine and blades, I think.  I sing to myself, I recall adventures and
 remember girls that I went out with that I really shouldn't have gone out
 with.  I can think of these things and have full conversations with myself
 about the most absurd things.  Take today for example, I spent 20 minutes
 trying to figure out who played the runaway bride in Smokey and the Bandit.
	After remembering most of the funny parts and crashing into a fence
 post I realized that it was Sally Field that played the part. Big whoop.
 Well--here is the clincher--I can spend countless hours cutting and thinking
 totally irrelevant thoughts but I can't cut and make a list of things I have
 to do when I finish work at the same time.  I get the first 2 or 3 things
 and then realize that I have just cut the same strip about 31 times.
	Why the fuck can't I do both?  Its not that hard of a concept.  
 Think and work--do it all the time. But when I need to do it, can I?  NO!  
 Try it sometime--you will be surprised, even when you are driving.  You
 can be listening to the radio singing a song and all of a sudden the next
 thing you know you are at an airport 50 miles from where you should be
 about to board a plane for Toledo.  But here is the good part.  You will
 realize that you were just remembering the first time you got laid.  Not
 just the actual getting laid but the 3 years of liking a person and
 finally hooking up with that person.  Oh, and don't forget all the other
 crap that happened during those 3 years.
	The other day someone told me they had a dream that they lived an
 entire life.  Wow.  That's a lot of dream world time for a 30 seconds of
 actual dream time.  (that's one of the weird facts that I know--you dream
 for 30 seconds in the last 45 seconds of sleep before you wake up) I must
 be dreaming.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Title: Bots are not evil - a response to aster
 Author: Isaac Avalos
 date:  02-02-00

 bots are not evil. well, they are never very evil. they do not plan to
 take over the world. if we were ever in their clutchs there would be a
 turning back!!! we can stop them anytime!! if we don't stop them the
 world world will be as we have always known it!!! they will not take over
 and make us all slaves. 

 what is a bot. what is a slave. lets pretend to know things today what is
 a signal? a signal is thing. when this thing changes we can say that the
 signal is signalings, alive, active, acting, changed, changing, moving,
 or firing. When we say the signal is active we are functioning. what is a
 function? a function is a collection of signals. a function is anything
 that generates a signal.

 all things in the universe can we expressed as signals and functions.
 when classifing functions and their signals we start with unary signals

 '-' is a signal
 'o' is a function

	 o 	non-being
	 o-	birth
	-o	death
	-o-	transition

 most functions are of the last type.
 next we can classify by binary signals
 '-' is a 0 signal
 '+' is a 1 signal

	 o
	 o
 --------------	
	 o-	type 0
	 o-
		
	 o+	type 1
	 o+

	 o-	random birth
	 o+
 --------------
	-o
	+o
 --------------
	-o-
	+o+

	-o+
	+o-		
 --------------

 there is no such thing as a random birth function.
 but, how do we explain the existance of things?
 you expect me to explain the existance of things!!!???
 fine, I dont know! maybe there is such a thing as a random birth funtion.

 anyways. using these terms to describe reality we see little difference
 between bots and non-bots. it is all automata. automata is anything that
 has a high degree of transition realitive to the observer's transition.
 so now we see that bots are as much our friends as people are, and bots
 are as evil as people are. bots are as much lesbians as people are. mmmm
 lesbians. mmmm midgets.

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: 10 Feb 2000 23:19:20 -0800
 From: Doors <bobl@giantsfan.com>
 To: hoe@hoe.nu
 Subject: Hoe Submission

 You stand there laughing as I write
 like a hyena, tho you have no bite
 the honeys all say you're a blast 
 well i got news, you're not the last 
 meet monday marry tuesday 
 gone wednesday dead thursday 
 this life you know it really sucks 
 sitting here typing like a schmuck 
 hell sure ain't no pie in the sky 
 but it's there I sit as life goes by 
 jocks all saying you're so fine 
 honeys singing gee he's fly! 
 swooning fawning kissing screwing 
 moving spawning bitching sueing 
 I hear you got your trophy wife 
 think that makes me want your life? 
 I don't need your fucking life 
 I've got mine, it's not so trite 
 why do I keep writing here? 
 Am I depressed do I need beer? 
 they say that you should be yourself 
 they say that you should be unique 
 they say you're gonna go to hell 
 they say that you should aim for the peak 
 climb the rope and ring the bell 
 the rope is home for twisted freaks 
 freaks with foes freaks with friends 
 freaks who tell you this is the end 
 say that you're their only friend 
 tell you the only real freaks are the geeks 
 those who spend life working to what they seek 
 working? that's just insane, that's senile 
 you should worry about matters more penile 
 there's really no point in what I'm saying 
 these are just words, don't think I'm praying 
 there's no deeper meaning, no 
 you thought your life meant something, oh? 
 well I'd like to make it clear 
 my amusement is why you're here 

 Yeah, this sucks. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, I wrote it. If you want it,
 cool. If not, oh well.

 Mr. Mojo Risin'
 There are things known, and there are things unknown, and in between are
 the Doors -- http://home.inreach.com/jacks

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2000 17:50:01 -0500 (EST)
 From: Chris DeSarno <desarnoc@eden.rutgers.edu>
 To: mogel <mogel@hoe.nu>
 Subject: Re: "Letting You Go"

 Good sir Mogel,

 When I first heard about the post-h1k changes to Hogs of Entropy I
 went through a wide spectrum of emotions --
 from shock      to outrage      to pure hatred        to hunger
            to frustration           to a kind of emotional constipation
   to a very literal constipation           to relief
                            then back to shock
 and ultimately to simple horniness, for I have not had a good lay in
 a while. But this is all besides the point. The point is you've gone too
 far to find a point and that's why you've made the whole thing pointless.

 I laughed when people said, "The bastard's drunk on his own power, Chris.
 You've got to do something. He's all about some illusion of progression.
 He'll try to improve on a perfectly imperfect structure and in the process
 destroy it.
 
 King Kong killed his lover in the end ... but he still loved her."

 No, not Mogel, I said. You don't give him enough credit.
 He's tough as nails!  It's just a phase. That's all. It'll pass.

 How wrong I was.   How   wrong   I   was . . .

 You had something special. Anyone, anywhere could be thrown into the
 ranks of a HOE writer and have people FUCKING READ their shit -- the
 gloriously imperfect, grammatically atrocious, SHIT that they wrote. God
 bless bulldada!@# What an extremely powerful concept. Sure sometimes you
 got stupid, long, pointless, angsty, stupid, bitchy, stupid,stupid,stupid
 material but there was beauty in the chaos and diversity and originality.
 Shit needs a medium too! And handing out the title of "writer" to anyone
 and everyone was a slap in the face to tradition conceptions of "good
 writing." Its style was its sheer lack of style. But somewhere along the
 lines someone figured they should be able to tell which shit doesn't
 stink (or which doesn't stink in an experimental way).

 HOE has now fallen victim to that infamous zine-disease "Quality Control"
 brought on by stupid value-judgments made by inflated egos. Someone had
 to think "Gee, some of this shit is 'experimental' and has real literary
 value and the rest is just effortless crap." Elitists!

 The writers that you have lost today made up the sticky semen which held
 together the fabric of a great thing.

 It is under these circumstances that I happily resign as a writer for HOE.

     *sniffle*       *sniffle*

 love,
 mutter

 [---------------------------------------------------------- --- -- -

 Welcome to The Obloid Sphere BBS Message Forum
 http://www.obloidsphere.com

 [-----]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      124 of 262
 By: spirit                 Replies: 2
 To: MercY                  Subj: Re: uhm
 Date: 01/10/2000 09:06:40

 >> Soo uhh.. that was a nice email mogel sent, huh?

 Have you read the other stuff on the site? I think you should!

 My personal opinion is that now that mogel has personally shit on our
 community (no offense to the 2 or 3 decent writers he kept as you had no
 control over it) we should remove this base.

 His call to start a new zine is silly, because: 

 a) we were doing that anyhow little by little 
 b) we liked hoe because of the history and total inclusiveness of the zine 
 c) he could have started another different ezine HIMSELF instead of
 maligning this one

 I highly doubt we will lose track of each other now that we found each
 other. Maybe one or two people will fade away like before. However, we
 will have to make the effort to do so w/o a common ground like hoe.

 To think I was proud of hoe. Now its become a pile of monkey crap.

 Sure, mogel started it and I suppose he has this right. But that doesn't
 mean that it was a nice or considerate thing to do. He complains all the
 time about how lonely he is, and now he goes and manipulates the
 community he created. That's not right, and that surely won't reduce his
 alienation.

 Why do people have to destroy good things just to make life more
 interesting? Some interesting is bad interesting.

 Anyhow, to stop rambling and sum up. I love our community. I want it to
 continue. In order to continue it, we must get rid of our ties to hoe and
 lessen our ties to mogel. Because, we should not ever let one person be
 able to singlehandedly wipe our expression clean.

 Leah
 Pull the string! Pull the string! 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      133 of 262
 By: Uberfizzgig            Replies: 1
 To: MercY                  Subj: Re: uhm
 Date: 01/10/1900 16:55:25

 >> Soo uhh.. that was a nice email mogel sent, huh? 

 I think so. Its about time hogs of ENTROPY did something chaotic. Also
 I'm happy that I don't have to write anymore text files, and that maybe
 Aster will write some more now.

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      141 of 262
 By: phairgirl              Replies: 2
 To: writers 'n' stuff      Subj: the whole HOE thing
 Date: 01/10/1900 21:25:59

 Well, here is my official post-trauma HOE post: 

 I agree, I disagree. I think that HOE definitely needed some awakening--I
 know personally from editing it that it was getting pretty stale. And
 being that it really wasn't my child, I didn't want to get too crazy
 changing things. So, I do support some changes in general. 

 I do kind of disagree as to who was left on staff and who was expelled. I
 will not make any cracks or value judgements to the world about who I
 think are good/bad writers, but I know I'm not the only one to notice
 that a goodly chunk of the remaining writers are either dating, related,
 or spend a lot of time hanging out together in RL. And I do think that
 leaves a lot of other people feeling really jilted. I would have kept at
 LEAST 8-10 more people on the staff, because I personally think they are
 great writers and deserve a voice, but that's not my decision to make.
 Basically, my worry isn't for the future of HOE, but mainly for the
 friendships involved. Cliqueing off is not cool, and the absense of that
 was what made HOE such a great family.

 But then again, this is also coming from someone who is very
 anti-elitism who really thinks that _everyone_ needs an outlet, a voice,
 a chance at expression, as long as they have talent and something to say.
 And I think I would have been a lot happier if the choices in remaining
 HOE members reflected that. No offense to Tasha, but she hasn't written
 since Hoe 900, and even before that, she made the decision to be
 non-productive. And never mind that Meenk didn't write the whole time I
 was editor because of personal issues. But that's not something I care to
 get into.

 As far as Mogel's decision, well, it's Mogel's decision, he's the one who
 pays Dreamhost to host all of our crap :) And I don't personally dislike
 Mogel or anything for what he's done, but he knows my feelings on the
 subject and I think it's fair that everyone else does, too. 

 Big sigh. 

 Anyway, like I've posted before: I've had a new 'zine project in the
 works for about a month now, but because of the laziness and the changing
 jobs factor, it's been a little slow going. However, I HOPE to release
 Feb 1 or thereabouts, given I get a few more submissions.

 ITS NAME: aNAda. Pronounced "a-NA-da", like I spell it, just because I
 wanted to be clear that it doesn't rhyme with "canada". Yes, it stands
 for something, but that's pretty complicated and will warrant its own
 page.  http://www.anada.net.

 WHAT IT IS: Right now, it's just an idea, but that idea is to put a lot
 of the craziness from HOE into a bastard conglomeration of fiction,
 poetry, and propaganda. How I love propagandous ranting. Everyone should
 take a little time to try and change the world. Look! That was propaganda!

 WHY IT IS: Well sheeeeet, probably because HOE has just been decimated by
 nuclear blast, and because DTO was too elitist for my own taste, and
 there's just not much around that is publishing on a regular basis with
 anything worth reading. 

 WHO IT IS: Right now, it's my baby, I'm feeding it what I like. But once
 I start getting some positive feedback and commitments, I'll add some
 official staff, and we'll see what pops up. 

 Anyway, this whole post sucked all over the place because I don't feel
 like being opinionated today. I want to be timid for once. 

 phairgirl.
 superschmacky. 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      142 of 262
 By: soybean                Replies: 1
 To: spirit                 Subj: Re: uhm
 Date: 01/10/1900 21:48:57

 >> My personal opinion is that now that mogel has personally shit on our
 >> community (no offense to the 2 or 3 decent writers he kept as you had
 >> no control over it) we should remove this base. 

 How does whose name appears on the hoe staff page really effect your life
 that much? The same people are still going to write, it's just a list of
 names that were parred down. My name was taken off the staff page many
 months ago because I didn't write regularly. I have not been forbidden to
 do so again in the future, however, nor have I lost contact in any degree
 with people I knew before. 

 >> However, we will have to make the effort to do so w/o a common ground
 >> like hoe. 

 Of course, there is still the common ground of #ezines and this bbs.
 That's where people actually interacted, if they chose to interact at all. 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      156 of 262
 By: spirit                 Replies: 1
 To: soybean                Subj: Re: uhm
 Date: 01/10/1900 22:17:05

 >> All I want to know is why people have decided that people who aren't
 >> staff can't submit. 

 People who aren't staff can submit, but it is clear that they are viewed
 as second rate.

 Even if they have a reason to be viewed as second rate, due to actually
 not caring at all, the idea was still unkosher in execution. 

 If people want to write for something that views them as second rate, so
 be it. 

 I plan not to. 

 Leah
 Pull the string! Pull the string! 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      157 of 262
 By: Mogel                  Replies: 2
 To: all                    Subj: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/10/1900 22:25:47

 I hate to sound so harsh, Leah, but you didn't write very much for HOE in
 the first place.  Being a supporter and a writer are certainly different
 things.  There's clearly some BIG things you're missing here. 

 #1 - As I stated rather gracefully in HOE #1001, the people selected were
 not really based on PRODUCTIVITY *or* QUALITY. This is especially true
 since it's likely your notion of quality is probably very formalist, and
 that's something HOE fundamentally ain't (not to mention it's subjective,
 but that's irrelevant). HOE is heading into the 'trash aesthetic'
 direction, and I chose the writers I think are most skilled at using this
 technique. For the most part, the decisions for HOE writers were certainly
 not arbitrary, and not clique based. And that's the dog gone truth. 

 #2 -> it's HOE. if HOE *is* the center of an e'zine scene, that is a BAD
 thing. E'zines and friends should be the center of an e'zine scene. It
 could DEFINITELY be argued that this scene has died a long time ago, and
 making any reference to me "killing it" is laughable at best. If we do
 have a 'SCENE' of sorts, I highly doubt who I choose as staff members
 would have relevance. AND... AND... IF THEY DO HAVE RELEVANCE... it's
 most certainly the time to change that.

 But let's be honest, huh? You've SET YOUR MIND on the fact that I AM AN
 ASSHOLE and I AM A COLD HEARTLESS POLITICAL TEXT FILE STALIN and NOTHIN'
 that NOBODY COULD SAY OR DO would EVER CHANGE THAT NOW, NO SIR, NO WAY
 BABY, I'M TOTALLY TRAMPING ON YOUR ABILITY TO HAVE ANY MORE FRIENDS ON
 THE INTERNET. ALL OF YOUR CHAT BUDDIES MUST PASS THROUGH ME.  Okay, I
 apologize for that. Maybe I really am a terrible person.

 How about this: write a text file that's really good. Try it! You might
 like it! That sounded convoluted. Here, wait, I'll re-phrase it so it's
 nice and simple. AHEM. 

 THE SIMPLE (SEAYA) VERSION: 

 If the e'zine scene that you seem to feel exists is based on
 *friendship*, than HOE should IDEALLY have little relevance, eh? 

 If the e'zine scene that you seem to feel exists is based on *writing*,
 then we should have more writing. And being part of any one group
 shouldn't matter.

 So, in conclusion, write something.

 -Mogel

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      159 of 262
 By: spirit                 Replies: 2
 To: Mogel                  Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/10/1900 22:37:55

 Many replies to a pompous ass: 

 >> #1 - As I stated rather gracefully in HOE #1001, the people selected
 >> were not really based on PRODUCTIVITY *or* QUALITY. This is especially
 >> true since it's likely your notion of quality is probably very
 >> formalist, and that's something HOE fundamentally ain't (not to
 >> mention clearly subjective, but that's irrelevant). HOE is heading
 >> into the 'trash aesthetic' direction, and I chose the writers I think
 >> are most skilled at using this technique. For the most part, the
 >> decisions for HOE writers were certainly not arbitrary, and not clique
 >> based. And that's the dog gone truth.

 Bull and shit. I spoke to phairgirl. I know how it went down. You
 basically picked it based on the decisions of AIDS and meenk who picked a
 clique. Although you may not have meant it to be a clique, it is made up
 of a clique. It just does not make any sense that a blatant trash
 aesthetic would be better than a diverse offerring. You cannot say you
 strove for anything at all besides just doing what angsty white males
 have been doing in every ezine since the beginning of time. Saying nigger
 for show and writing long random crap gets old in milliseconds.

 You didn't kill the scene. You killed hoe and shat on the people who make
 the scene great in a very inconsistent and pithy manner. You really have
 this bloated sense of self importance, don't you. Well, you will no
 longer be able to pull shit like this, that I can assure you, no matter
 what you would call it. 

 >> But let's be honest, huh? You've SET YOUR MIND on the fact that I AM
 >> AN ASSHOLE and I AM A COLD HEARTLESS POLITICAL TEXT FILE STALIN and
 >> NOTHIN' that NOBODY COULD SAY OR DO would EVER CHANGE THAT NOW, NO
 >> SIR, NO WAY BABY, I'M TOTALLY TRAMPING ON YOUR ABILITY TO HAVE ANY
 >> MORE FRIENDS ON THE INTERNET. ALL OF YOUR CHAT BUDDIES MUST PASS
 >> THROUGH ME.

 You are truly an idiot. You very much oversimplify things. Until now I
 have met all of these people because of you, but that's going to change
 soon. 

 >> How about this: write a text file that's really good. Try it! You
 >> might like it! That sounded convoluted. 

 And here Mogel makes an attempt to insult my writing, when he knows it
 was fairly decent and I wasn't even trying. Man those list t-files get
 old, don't they? 

 >> If the e'zine scene that you seem to feel exists is based on 
 >> *friendship*, than HOE should IDEALLY have little relevance, eh? 
 >> If the e'zine scene that you seem to feel exists is based on *writing*,
 >> then we should have more writing. And being part of any one group
 >> shouldn't matter. 

 This may be true in a general sense; however, it still remains that the
 way you went about trying to prove it smacks of a god complex and taking
 people for granted. You will not take me or others for granted any more.
 Have fun masturbating! 

 >> So, in conclusion, write. 

 Ah Mogel, the prophet of the ezine scene. 

 Leah
 Pull the string! Pull the string! 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum           180 of 262
 By: AIDS                        Replies: 1
 To: Everyone Human + Leah, the Subhuman Primate
 Subj: The Last Word (until someone replies)
 Date: 01/11/1900 01:49:34

 Well, christ, where to begin children? 

 I suppose the best place is at the beginning: when we decided to kick the
 majority of writers out. Contrary to popular belief, this idea originated
 with neither myself nor meenk. Mogel was tired of people taking advantage
 of his inability to JUST SAY NO to crap. 

 It's true, of course, that meenk and I did swoop down upon him after that
 and use him like the tool he is. So we kicked out all the people we
 hated. I could give you a bunch of reasons why, but it really does come
 down to HOE being a gigantic clique. 

 For instance, it was a forgone conclusion that even if caitlin never
 writes again, she will be staff as long as I am tangentially involved
 with the project. I want you to think about that, Leah. She *never* has
 to write again, and she'll be a member regardless. All of your support of
 HOE doesn't mean shit if you don't put out for the editorial staff.
 Cannibalb and Basehead were kept primarily because I like them. There are
 other examples, of course, but why bother? HOE is a big fucking clique.
 Who cares? It's my clique and you're not in it. Sucker.

 Even if we weren't justified in kicking you out of our clique for just
 being you, we'd be justified in kicking you out due to your response to
 our kicking you out. Does that seem paradoxical? Fuck you! It's our
 clique! 

 Seriously, though, you don't get HOE. It wasn't ever quality and it
 wasn't ever about anything OTHER than me jerking off while 47 other
 people wrote the most god awful shit on the planet to space out my files.

 I'd also, for the moment, like to address the criticisms of my files.
 You're right, usage of the word NIGGER and random shit isn't particularly
 interesting. That was the point. Mostly. However, Leah, I am deeply
 concerned that you of all people did not appreciate them. YOu're my
 target audience. You went to college, right? How many times did they make
 you read DUBLINERS? Three? Four? Should all my oh-so-witty literary
 allusions give you the smug satisfaction of knowing you, in fact, are NOT
 alone in this uncooth and uncultured world? I mean, Leah, honey, I was
 writing mainly for you and me and all the other collegiates and alumni.
 You're my target audience. 

 Phairgirl, I'd like to address your insinuation that HOE will now become
 a multitude of AIDS-clones. Had you read and properly comprehended HOE
 #999, you would realzie that HOE #999 was a call to burn out the AIDS
 persona and those who would imitate it. My worst nightmare is ever seeing
 a file anything like my own in HOE, by me or anyother else, ever again.
 I'm not going to write for a few months, because I have nothing left to
 say. There's nothing I can say that can't be said by some woman somewhere
 in a less grammtically structured and less coherent format, and I'm
 keenly aware of that harsh reality. I'm going to rethink my personality
 in HOE, and try to work in the sidelines as a editor. I personally want
 to assure you that AIDS-like content will be at the barest miminum, if
 not rejected outright. I'd also like to wish you much success with your
 new zine, Late 90s Token Black VJ.

 As a side note, Leah, I'd like to point out how offensive I find your
 attempts to refute my oh-so-acerbic comments about womens' inability to
 write. At the very least, you could have attempted to carefully write a
 response, rather than bang on your keyboard like an ape full shot up with
 distilled Andrea Dworkin and bell hooks. You, my dear, write like a
 barbarian. 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy            189 of 262
 By: zooeY                  Replies: 2
 To: spirit                 Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/11/1900 15:27:21

 >> One thing I should inform you is I am aware that h0e is dead... Anyhow,
 >> you should read carefully before you make forced inane commentary. 

 i honestly have no idea what you're talking about. i don't think my witty
 joke about how all of this is a (incredibly twisted) rehash of hoe-is-dead
 (from-as-of-issue-90) even vaguely qualifies as "inane commentary". well,
 i guess we've already firmly established that i'm the only one who finds
 myself witty, but all the same, it's a "dumb" joke, not an "inane" one,
 because it was *really* quite appropos. 

 i just get a huge kick out of everyone dancing about in circles around
 "hoe is dead" now, when a majority of them weren't even in the scene and
 have no memory of the first time it died. I AM JUST SUCH AN OLD JADED
 FUCK I GUESS. no one has a sense of history anymore! kids these days!

 HOE IS DEAD, LONG LIVE HOE. 

 andrew 

 p.s. feel free to continue "refuting" me (and everyone else); i'm sure
 that i (and we) will continue to fail to "hold water," but before you do,
 try to figure out if i'm (or we're) actually arguing with you. 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      193 of 262
 By: zooeY                  Replies: 1
 To: spirit                 Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/12/1900 06:02:33

 >> Please do not insinuate I don't know what I am talking about.

 leah, you're always so busy trying to be right that you really don't take
 the time to try & figure out what it is you're being right about.

 if a statement obviously doesn't apply to you, why do you assume that it
 does? if it obviously doesn't? isn't that kind of a dumb thing to do? i
 mean, in all honesty?

 at least, sometimes it seems that way. in any case, i won't go any
 further trying to explain how i did actually mean what i meant, since
 you're the only one here that's a qualified arbiter as to what people
 actually think.

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      194 of 262
 By: spirit                 Replies: 1
 To: zooeY                  Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/12/1900 08:08:52

 >> if a statement obviously doesn't apply to you, why do you assume that
 >> it does? if it obviously doesn't? isn't that kind of a dumb thing to
 >> do? i mean, in all honesty? 

 When you reply to me, don't you think you're talking to me?

 Leah
 Pull the string! Pull the string! 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      195 of 262
 By: zooeY                  Replies: 1
 To: spirit                 Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/12/1900 12:55:30

 since i'm evidently the only one in this base left with enough patience
 to actually talk to you, leah, i decided that your post actually merited
 a full response, which i have now prepared.

 namely, i would like to address your concern--"when you reply to me,
 don't you think you're talking to me?"--from two different angles. 

 the first, and more obvious, would be to present a generic and hopefully
 representative case study. so, say, if in a post to you, i said something
 to the effect of "people with three feet are ugly." does that mean that i
 am saying that you have three feet? or that you are ugly? or, that i am
 not talking to you? of course, the answer is no on all three counts. 

 what that means is that i am making an observation, to you, of my personal
 reaction to the sight of a person with three feet. in most cases, my
 meaning would be clear--unless, for whatever reason, you believed me
 foolish enough to believe you to have three feet. however, by assuming
 that i don't know how many feet you have, you're insulting both your and
 me. you, because you're admitting that someone might not think that you
 have the normal number of feet, and me, because only an idiot would make
 that mistake after having met you and having first-hand experience of
 your correct number of extremities.

 i admit that you may find that a somewhat far-fetched analogy, but i also
 think that it holds 100% true.

 secondly, after having drawn out that general case, i would like to
 address the specifics of this particular disagreement. i will do that by
 running through, post by post, both your and my stated responses.

 to begin with, we'll take the background of the "what is the future of
 hoe" thread, which I joined (to such extent that i did, that is) some 40
 or so posts into. at which time, i made a post which was a reply to one
 of your posts which had included the text phrase "hoe is dead". for
 background, and as i stated, i had been waiting through that entire
 thread for someone to quote from "hoe090.txt". which you did. I then
 continued to make light of the fact that people are talking about hoe
 being "dead" now, when mogel had actually killed it years before, and
 when in fact the zine has *not* actually been killed at this point in
 time, just restructured.

 i found that ironic. i'm a big fan of irony. you then responded to my
 post, calling my commentary "inane" and accusing me of not having read
 your posts carefully enough. 

 but, believe me, i read your posts very carefully! i got a huge kick out
 of the entire thread. it added some levity to an otherwise drab day. in
 any case, i then responded to you, giving more detail on how you may have
 in fact accidentally missed my joke, and going into some added facts
 about why I found the thread amusing. 

 at which time, i mentioned how i am particularly amused by all the people
 who are relatively "new" to the scene thinking that this is all a novel
 argument. i'm still amused by that, in fact. however, i failed to
 *explicitly* mention that i was excluding present company from my
 description of people "new to the scene," so then you mistakenly jumped
 to the conclusion that i was calling you a wet-behind-the-ears-newbie.
 but, it was just a comment that I thought interesting. given how *long*
 you've been in the scene, if you thought about it, you might find it
 interesting too. that's why i mentioned it to you (and everyone else!) 

 here, i should also admit that i kind of intentionally omitted the
 disclaimer to see if you'd bite. a too-amusing parlor game ploy by
 myself, perhaps, but sadly effective. you see, leah, i know you've been
 around. as mentioned, i've *been* here for ages. it's silly for you to
 always assume that no one else knows what they're talking about, as you
 do, all the time. 

 i find it ironic (aaaah! sweet irony!) that you constantly post telling
 me (and others, not to be exclusive) that i'm not reading your posts, or
 putting words in your mouth, or *whatever*, when the problem is simply
 that you fail to look outside of the box. maybe in Leah World every
 statement by every person is about and concerning you, but out here,
 that's just not true. 

 we should really be able to feel confident that if we say something like,
 "hey, leah, it sure is raining hard," that we won't be accused of calling
 you a storm front, and then being accused of being a dunce when we try to
 point out that we didn't really *mean* that you were a big dark nasty
 moist cloud. or et cetera! 

 in conclusion, i hope that this summary has helped you to more fully
 understand my prior comments in this thread, and improved your
 comprehension of at least this one little tiny corner of the entity known
 as the "obloid sphere." 

 thank you,
 andrew 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      198 of 262
 By: spirit                 Replies: 3
 To: Rhea                   Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/12/1900 17:21:20

 >> I don't know what's funnier, zooey: the actual response, or the fact
 >> that you spent so much of your time writing it!  but either way, it's
 >> funny!  thanks! 

 What's really funny is fucking mother fucking AOL fucking mother fucking
 crashx0red when I was writing my lengthy response. 

 To summarize: 

 1) analog-less analogy 

 2) no newbies were involved in the discussion, so your remarks are
 baseless, and if you meant phairgirl I will beat you, because she was
 hurt worse than anyone else over this 

 3) I mistook joking for ridicule, because your tone is often ridiculing 

 4) I only get angry when people say things just to be difficult and get
 my goat, admittedly this means I am rising to the bait, but it means I
 have integrity and I don't lie or censor myself even if I know I'll
 probably change my mind 

 5) if mogel, phairgirl, and myself wanted it to die, don't you think
 commenting on it would be viewed as extraneous and "just to get Leah's
 goat", which you admitted below 

 6) hoe is actually dead this time, because no longer will mogel be able
 to make such a dramatic event occur, his actions with regard to this
 issue have caused me to reinterpret past actions and say enough is enough
 (so it's bigger than hoe), anyhow in the other cases hoe was allowed to
 naturally evolve, and I explained it better in my fucking missing
 message, damnit! 

 If you would like me to elaborate, email me privately. I grow steadily
 tired of this issue and I fucking hate aol, but my fucking motherfucking
 parents have it, so there. 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      211 of 262
 By: trilobyte              Replies: 0
 To: spirit                 Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/13/1900 02:03:04

 >> 4) I only get angry when people say things just to be difficult and get
 >> my goat, admittedly this means I am rising to the bait, but it means I
 >> have integrity and I don't lie or censor myself even if I know I'll
 >> probably change my mind

 From my observations, Leah, it seems that you often misinterpret a lot of
 remarks as being personal attacks, even when they are not. Any neutral
 statement made to you, including a statement of disagreement, stands a
 good chance of having its tone re-aligned into something more insulting.
 It's almost the way that an insecure person reacts, yet you take extreme
 caution not to appear insecure. This happens frequently with people that
 you deem unworthy of your attention -- people whose statements you will
 automatically brush off your shoulder or take offense towards just because
 of your personal opinion of them. It's almost a sort of prejudice, though
 you may have strong reasons for feeling the way you do toward the speaker.
 You ignore the fact that the person is still taking their time to
 conversate or argue with you -- their time is, after all, also worth
 something -- and just continue to disagree with them, no matter what
 they're saying. Once you've set out on your left foot, you never step with
 your right. It seems to be a sort of haughtiness and self-importance,
 almost as if you believe yourself to be a princess. And certainly each
 person has every right to think of themselves as such. But when it keeps
 human interaction from being normal and sane, it turns into a problem. 

 [disclaimer: the above statements are made with no spite or malice. they
 are simply interpretations the author has made from observations of the
 recipient's interaction with other people on on-line forums. they could be
 completely wrong. the author is, after all, talking about the heartless
 void of emotion known as the internet. they are in no way related to the
 author's interactions with the recipient, which have been perfectly
 pleasant and enjoyable.] 

 --trilobyte 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum                  212 of 262
 By: trilobyte                          Replies: 1
 To: ALL PISSED OFF PEOPLE EVERYWHERE   Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/13/1900 02:24:06

 >> Like I said, it is true, but she knows a great deal more about what
 >> happened "behind the scenes" than she has specifically described. 
 >> Let's just say, it's U.G.L.Y. 

 Behind the scenes? HOE was Mogel's baby. He's been in charge of the thing
 off-and-on for a very long time. Even when other people were the head
 editors, Mogel still did a lot of tasks involving running the thing. 

 Mogel's been going through a lot of depression and whatnot lately. And we
 all CARE about Mogel, right? I mean, we don't want to see him UNHAPPY, do
 we? No! So if Mogel decides that he wants to restructure the zine that he
 created, and he runs, I think he can do it! 

 And he did! 

 So now some people feel shafted. They can't write for HOE anymore!
 Shucks! 

 If they still feel the need to write, they can start up their OWN zine!
 It's not that hard! There are also OTHER zines that the people can write
 for! 

 ...but what if those people can't write well enough for the other zines
 to accept their submissions? 

 TOUGH HOOEY. 

 Learn how to write REAL text files. Learn how to write text files that
 don't require a zine to LOWER ITS STANDARDS just to publish your GARBAGE.
 Look back to the days of DTO and GRILL and RAD and all the others. A lot
 of the stuff they printed was _inventive_. Then the stuff that would get
 printed in HOE was _different_ from the stuff in the "main-grain" zines,
 but it wasn't necessarily BAD! It wasn't painful to read. It often had
 sparks of genius. It was just self-aware of its badness, and revelled in
 it! 

 What's the point of running a zine that will release anything any fucking
 dufus can bang out in a text editor? I mean, who actually WANTS to READ
 shit like that? I stopped reading HOE over the past 150 issues because so
 much of it was not even worth my time! People would try to write stories
 and they would just be washed-out copycat renditions of a story I'd heard
 10 years earlier! Or the story would be something I could romp through in
 my head, or on a piece of paper, in 5 minutes!# I don't want predictable.
 I don't want similitude. I want to read stuff from people who can DO
 SOMETHING I CAN'T. Otherwise I'd just sit here at my computer and churn
 out my OWN text files endlessly, because when I don't have to think of
 any original ideas, it's REALLY FUCKING EASY. 

 Let's not fall victim to rampant LAZINESS. If someone out there who's so
 burned by the restructuring of HOE can actually write something WORTH
 READING, then start a fucking new zine up, and start printing shit. It's
 not that difficult. I'm sure Mogel will even link to your site from the
 fucking HOE site. His message to everyone saying "YOU'RE OUT OF HOE"
 didn't say "I HATE YOU, WE ARE NO LONGER FRIENDS." If that's how you feel
 about it, though -- if you're prepared to end all communication with
 Mogel because he took control of something he controlled -- then you
 weren't even friends with him for the right reasons. I only have a small
 inkling of the full meaning of the word "SUPERFICIAL", but perhaps it
 would work in well to what I'm trying to say.

 And as far as all of this U.G.L.Y. shit, what the fuck are you talking
 about? The fact that Mogel and AIDS and Meenk are friends who all played
 a part in the HOE reorg? When Mogel wanted to kill HOE, wasn't it his
 friend Metalchic who took over? I don't know if there was as much of a
 tempest back then as there is now, but what's different? The fact that
 the scene is smaller now? That part of the group might feel alienated? 

 BIG FUCKING DEAL. the reason the scene has been stagnant for so long is
 BECAUSE of hoe. it's been the leech that's sucked out all the blood. 

 when anyone can write anything of any standard and get it published in
 HOE, which has a rather large readership, why bother doing anything else?
 why should anyone try any harder? why should there be any other zines? it
 was a leech. 

 obviously nobody cares enough about the quality of text, and obviously
 none of you UP IN ARMS folks were even READING hoe lately. if you were,
 your eyes would probably be bleeding and you'd be feeling violated. used.
 cheap.

 see, mogel can't come right out and say "I'M IN CHARGE OF THIS ZINE AND I
 KICKED OUT PEOPLE WHO JUST SUBMIT PURE GARBAGE." that's how he REALLY
 would have pissed some people off. instead, he had some other reasons,
 and used those. but you've gotta know that a need for quality control was
 certainly one large motivator. 

 so you're pissed because some people are hurt. no matter what mogel did,
 somebody was going to get hurt. even if mogel had done NOTHING, HOE
 _itself_ would have been hurt. and since all of you seem to care SOOO
 MUCH about the fate of HOE, you must feel SOME sympathy. 

 but what drives people to write, more than HURT? if you're all in such
 incredible pain, get those fingers humming and make some god damned text
 files. write some stuff that people will want to read. 

 if anything, you can create a zine that's BETTER than hoe. would that be
 revenge enough? 

 --trilobyte 

 [----------]

 Hogs of Entropy Forum      240 of 262
 By: jubz                   Replies: 2
 To: spirit                 Subj: Re: Very Surreal
 Date: 01/23/1900 09:07:34

 >> Fuck you. I was not whining. If you think rational, representative
 >> comments are whining, then it all the more proves that you only care
 >> about yourself and view all other concerns as buzzing insects rapping
 >> at the windows of your superior mind.

 You really were whining, sorry. Please shut the fuck up about hoe. I
 mean, who the fuck cares? It's a stupid fucking 'zine made by a bunch of
 morons. You need to go out and take a nice walk, maybe get a massage.
 Please, just relax.

 -jubz 

 [-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
 [ (c) HOE E'ZINE - http://www.hoe.nu - hoe@hoe.nu     HOE #1050 - 3/22/00 ]
