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         [  Mailing Lists - Part 1  ]              [  By The Chief  ]


    ____________________________________________________________________
    ____________________________________________________________________


                           ()()()()()()()()()()()
                           ()   Mailing Lists  ()
                           ()      Part 1      ()
                           ()   by The Chief   ()
                           ()()()()()()()()()()()

             "...to hate or not to hate, that is the question."
                                               - Mr. E

 Are you surprised that the US '96 election is broadcasted on more TV
channels in Sweden than the Swedish '94 election? Well then you're reading
the wrong file.

 If you are, on the other hand, thinking about starting a mailing list,
then you are indeed reading the correct file. So, you are thinking about
starting a mailing list! Good for you! Or.. bad for you? Are you sure you
know what you are doing, or is everything new to you? Will you survive
all the surprises waiting around the corner? Let us give you some hints
in this first part, where we take a look at what you need to think about
before your mailing list is actually up and running.

 Some of you probably think that these hints are useless, and not even
worth to mention. "It is obvious" you might say. Well, no one told you
to read this file, right? This file is _not_ a mailing list FAQ (there
are plenty good ones out there) and it is _not_ a manual on how to set
up mailing list software (you'll get that with the software you choose).

 This file is written for those who have no idea about what they are getting
themselves involved with, and let's face it, more and more people are hooking
up to the Internet, more and more people want to start their own mailing list,
and how many do you think know what to think about, have knowledge about how
mailing lists work, or have experience from running mailing lists? Who has
not seen mailing lists going from something that appears to be a great idea,
with discussions from interested people, about the selected topic, to absolute
chaos?

 I believe that these mailing lists have been badly planned, badly thought
out, badly run and in the end, badly handled. Why not try to eliminate
these problems from the start, from the first simple thought "I want to
create a mailing list", instead of watching mailing lists start only to
die a couple of months later?

 Then again, I'm not saying that I am an expert, and that this is absolutely
everything you need to think of. I have only run about ten mailing lists for
about four years (give or take), and I know there are people with a lot more
experience and expertise out there. I'm merely trying to point out that when
you start a mailing list, you have to be aware of some of the problems you
will have to deal with, and the consequences it will have on you, your
subscribers, and the system you are running it on.

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 So, why not start with the basic and trivial things you should think about.

      1. In what area of interest will your mailing list be placed?
      2. Are there enough people interested in that area of interest to make
         it an active mailing list?
      3. You can't have a mailing list about "Animals".
      4. What? There is a list about Cats already?
      5. I can't find a mailing list about my topic anywhere!
      6. Tell the world about your *plans* for the mailing list!
      7. Create your mailing list.
      8. The Software
      9. Resources
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

  1. In what area of interest will your mailing list be placed?
     - Decide *what* your mailing list will be about first. If you do not
       know this now, then you can stop reading. If you *do* know, then
       you're still with us. Say for example that your area of interest
       will be "Animals". Okay, then you are ready to go ahead to number 2.

  2. Are there enough people interested in that area of interest to make
     it an active mailing list?
     - No matter what area of interest you have chosen, you'll find that
       there are people around with the same interest. You don't believe me?
       Try to pick one single area that you think no one will be interested
       in? Animals? No. Stamps? No. Grass? No. The sun? No. Right. So, don't
       sit there doing nothing! Move on to number 3!

  3. You can't have a mailing list about "Animals".
     - You see, you have to specialize your mailing list. Give it a target,
       a specific subject within the area of interest you have chosen.
       But, just for a second, let's say that you chose "Animals" and
       start a mailing list. How will you get people to subscribe to your
       list? "Hey, I've got a list about animals!" No, I don't think so,
       unless you want a million subscribers talking about everything
       from cats in trees to dinosaurs. Try it if you want though. It
       would be fun to see how such a list would turn out. No, let's
       face it. You have to make your list special. So move on to nr 4.

  4. What? There is a list about Cats already?
     - Of course there is. There are several thousand mailing lists
       about several thousand special topics, and if you try to start
       one about something that already exists, then you're just plain
       stupid. Of course you have to check if there *is* a mailing list
       covering the topic you want your list to handle. If there is
       one, well just subscribe to that one, or think of another topic
       if you desperately want to have your own list. There are several
       places on the net where you can check this, like the "List of
       Mailing Lists" for example. That's a good place to start. It is
       available on the web, through FTP and through Usenet News.

  5. I can't find a mailing list about my topic anywhere!
     - Good! Then you are on your way. But, let's face it, if you chose
       something like "Animals with three legs" then you'll have a hard
       time finding people with the same interest. On the other hand, if
       you already have a steady base of people with an interest in three
       legged animals, say in a Usenet Newsgroup, then you are all set.
       Go ahead.

  6. Tell the world about your *plans* for the mailing list!
     - That's right. You can now announce that you are *planning* to start
       such a mailing list, on the Usenet Newsgroup, or in an appropriate
       place for announcing new mailing lists. DO NOT announce your plans
       for your mailing list on other unrelated mailing lists or in other
       unrelated Newsgroups - you will suffer if you do. Say for example
       that you chose "Animals with three legs". Do you think that people
       who are interested in Cars will be interested in your list? No, I
       don't think so. So, post your plans on mailing lists and Newsgroups
       *related* to "Animals", and perhaps "three legged things", or even
       "weirdos", (what do I know, there might actually be people out there
       with serious and genuine interest in three legged animals)? Anyway,
       the point is to generate some interest, to start a discussion, to
       find out if it really *is* a good idea to start this list. Without
       interest, no list. So, what will it be? A new list, or no list at
       all? A new list you say? Well, number 7 is next.

  7. Create your mailing list.
     - Now when you know that people are interested in your topic, it is
       time to decide if you want to run your own mailing list program or
       perhaps let a dedicated server your internet supplier, or someone
       else, provides you with handle it.

     - The second choice (if available) is not as good as it may seem. The
       dedicated server may handle hundreds of mailing lists, and run old
       and problematic mailing list software. The software problem is
       essential in several ways. If the server handles several hundred
       mailing lists, no one will even want to think about changing the
       software to something better, more secure or easier to work with.
       A change would mean that each and every mailing list on the server,
       and each and every subscriber on those lists, as well as every place
       where information about the mailing lists are presented (such as in
       lists of mailing lists) will also need some sort of change. For
       example, a small change in the list commands, like "subscribe" and
       "unsubscribe" to something else, say "add" and "remove", will create
       an enormous amount of extra work for the mailing list owners, and in
       turn, everyone in any way related to the mailing lists. The subscribers
       will need to know, the places where the lists are listed, presented and
       discussed will need to know. And for one hundred mailing lists, you
       can imagine the amount of work that has to be done. So, even though
       this choice is attractive, and is the easiest way to set up and run a
       mailing list, it might just as well be the downfall of your mailing
       list in the end.

     - The first choice, to run your own mailing list program is therefor
       almost always the best choice, but of course, only if you are able
       to do this. And that is not very common, unless you have shell
       access and enough privileges on your Internet provider's system, or
       of course, if you have your own system hooked up to the Internet. If
       you do, then you're set, and have a wide variety of mailing list
       software to select from. A good advice is to pick the piece of software
       that most mailing lists on the Internet use today. Even though it makes
       it harder for people who are developing other ones, it will make it a
       lot easier for *you*. Say that you need help setting it up - you can
       ask a lot of people. And it will make it easier for almost everyone
       else, because they will *know* how to subscribe to your list,
       unsubscribe from your list, request information about your list, and
       so on, because it works like most of the other mailing lists on the
       Internet. It will also (almost always) ensure that you will find new
       versions, upgrades and bug fixes for it, something that is crucial,
       and something you will clearly see in the next part of this "series".
       Once you have set up the software of your choice, and you are up and
       running, you can of course always try other programs on the side
       if you like.

  8. The Software
     - I won't recommend any programs, and therefor, not even try to tell
       you how to set up your mailing list software. There are too many
       to list them all, but here are a selected few: Almanac, BMW, IDG,
       ListProc, CREN ListProc (commercial), LISTSERV (commercial), Mailbase,
       MailShare (Mac), MAISER (NetWare), Majordomo, MReply, MXSERV, SmartList,
       Smof (DOS), TULP. I leave it totally up to you to decide which one you
       want to run. But once you have started your mailing list on a dedicated
       server, or on your own, the first thing you have to do is to add
       yourself as a subscriber to your list. Pretty obvious one might think,
       but you really need to try out *all* the administrative commands
       available, and see that they work the way they should, and not in
       any other way. Once you have done that, and are a subscriber of your
       own mailing list, you are ready for Part 2, in this "series".

  9. Resources
     - Here you'll find a selected group of Mailing List software, and
       where you can find more information, source code, software,
       discussion lists, and whatnot. You can also find some resources
       for general mailing list information at the end. I recommend that
       you check out the current version of the Mailing List Software FAQ
       before anything else though, because there you'll get up to date
       information - as I have no idea when (in time) you are reading
       this file.

  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
       9.1  Almanac            9.2  BMW              9.3  IDG
       9.4  ListProc           9.5  CREN ListProc    9.6  LISTSERV
       9.7  Mailbase           9.8  MAISER           9.9  Majordomo
      9.10  MReply            9.11  MXSERV          9.12  SmartList
      9.13  Smof              9.14  TULP            9.15  General Resources
  ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

9.1 Almanac
    9.1.2 Through FTP
          Source:
             ftp://ftp.oes.orst.edu/pub/

    9.1.4 Mailing Lists
          Almanac Discussion List:
             Send Email to: almanac@oes.orst.edu
             with the following in the message body:
             subscribe alm-core-mg

9.2 BMW
    9.2.2 Through FTP
          Source:
             ftp://gojira.monsta.com/pub/src/

9.3 IDG
    9.3.3 Through Email
          Software:
             Send Email to: ftpmail%t3ew@dot.ca.gov
             with the following in the message body:
             connect
             get software/internet/idg
             quit

9.4 ListProc
    9.4.2 Through FTP
          Source:
             ftp://cs-ftp.bu.edu/pub/listserv/current_version.Z

    9.4.4 Mailing Lists
          ListProc Discussion List:
             Send Email to: listproc@avs.com
             with the following in the message body:
             sub unix-listproc Your Name

9.5 CREN ListProc
    9.5.2 Through FTP
          Information:
             ftp://info.cren.net/

    9.5.3 Through Email
          Information:
             Send Email to: listproc-info@listproc.net

    9.5.4 Mailing Lists
          CREN ListProc Discussion List:
             Send Email to: listproc@cren.org
             with the following in the message body:
             sub cren-list <Your Name>

9.6 LISTSERV
    9.6.1 On The WWW
          Software:
             http://www.listserv.net/

    9.6.2 Through FTP
          Evaluation kits:
             ftp://ftp.spc.edu/listserv/

    9.6.3 Through Email
          LISTSERV Basic Information:
             Send Email to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.NET
             with the following in the message body:
             HELP
          LISTSERV List of Information Files:
             Send Email to: LISTSERV@LISTSERV.NET
             with the following in the message body:
             INFO
          LISTSERV Sales Information:
             Send Email to: SALES@LSOFT.COM.

    9.6.4 Mailing Lists
          LISTSERV System Administrator Discussion List:
             Send Email to: LISTSERV@uga.cc.uga.edu
             with the following in the message body:
             sub LSTSRV-L Your Name
          LISTSERV List Owner Discussion List:
             Send Email to: LISTSERV@searn.sunet.se
             with the following in the message body:
             sub LSTOWN-L Your Name

9.7 Mailbase
    9.7.1 On The WWW
          Mailbase Document Archive:
             http://www.mailbase.ac.uk/

    9.7.3 Through Email
          Software:
             Send Email to: mailbase-helpline@mailbase.ac.uk
          Mailbase Basics:
             Send Email to: mailbase@mailbase.ac.uk
             with the following in the message body:
             send mailbase user-guide

9.8 MAISER
    9.8.2 Through FTP
          If you have a NetWare server, and want to try out MAISER, you
          will need Pegasus and Mercury:
             ftp://risc.ua.edu/pub/network/pegasus/

    9.8.4 Mailing Lists
          Pegasus and Mercury Discussion List:
             Send Email to: LISTSERV@UA1VM.UA.EDU.
             with the following in the message body:
             subscribe PMAIL Your Name

9.9 Majordomo
    9.9.1 On The WWW
          Software:
             http://www.enfo.com/MailLists/majdom/index.html
          FAQ:
             http://www.math.psu.edu/barr/majordomo-faq.html
          Guide:
             http://www.uchicago.edu/a.docs/Mail/majordomo.admin.html
          Workers & Users Archive:
             http://www.meadow.net/Majordomo/

    9.9.2 Through FTP
          Source:
             ftp://ftp.greatcircle.com/pub/majordomo/majordomo.tar.Z
          FAQ:
             ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/mail/majordomo-faq

    9.9.3 Through Email
          FAQ:
             Send Email to: majordomo@pop.psu.edu
             with the following in the message body:
             get file majordomo-faq
          FAQ:
             Send Email to: mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu
             with the following in the message body:
             send usenet/comp.mail.list-admin.software/
              Majordomo_Frequently_Asked_Questions

    9.9.4 Mailing Lists
          Majordomo Discussion List:
             Send Email to: majordomo@greatcircle.com
             with the following in the message body:
             subscribe majordomo-users

9.10 MReply
     9.10.2 Through FTP
            Source:
               ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/to/tor/mreply/

     9.10.3 Through Email
            MReply Help Document:
               Send Email to: mreply-request@netcom.com
               with the following in the message body:
               help

     9.10.4 Mailing Lists
            MReply Discussion List:
               Send Email to: mreply-request@netcom.com
               with the following in the message body:
               subscribe mreply-list

9.11 MXSERV
     9.11.2 Through FTP
            Software:
               ftp.spc.edu://pub/mx/

     9.11.4 Mailing Lists
            MXSERV Discussion List:
               Send Email to: MX-List-Request@WKUVX1.BITNET
               with the following in the message body:
               subscribe

9.12 SmartList
     9.12.2 Through FTP
            Source:
               ftp://ftp.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/pub/packages/Procmail/
                SmartList.tar.gz

     9.12.4 Mailing Lists
            SmartList Discussion List:
               Send Email to: SmartList-request@informatik.rwth-aachen.de
               with the following in the message body:
               subscribe

9.13 Smof
     9.13.2 Through FTP
            Software:
               ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/ibmpc/dos/apps/listutils/

9.14 TULP
     9.14.2 Through FTP
            Source:
               ftp://ftp.univ-lyon1.fr/pub/systems/unix/mail/
                list-servers/tulp/

     9.14.4 Mailing Lists
            TULP Discussion List:
               Send Email to: listserv@grasp.insa-lyon.fr
               with the following in the message body:
               sub listnix Your Name

9.15 General Information and other interesting resources
     9.15.2 Through FTP
            List of Mailing Lists:
               ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/mail/mailing-lists/
            Mailing List FAQ documents:
               ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/mail/list-admin/

     9.15.3 Through Email
            Mailing List Software FAQ:
               Send Email to: LISTSERV@listserv.net
               with the following in the message body:
               get mlm-software faq

     9.15.4 Mailing Lists
            General Mailing List for List Managers:
               Send Email to: list-managers@greatcircle.com

     9.15.5 Usenet Newsgroups
            Mailing List Discussions:
               comp.mail.list-admin.policy
               comp.mail.list-admin.software
            Mailing List Lists and FAQ documents:
               news.answers

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 The second part will deal with what you need to think about when you do have
 a running, working mailing list, with a selected topic. Unfortunately, that's
 when the big problems appear.


 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 uXu #346              Underground eXperts United 1996              uXu #346
                      Call RIPCO ][ -> +1-312-528-5020
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
