LIST
FILE ON
MARGIN IS 76 
STATUS: ENTER ONLY
NUMBER OF LINES: 629 
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ********************** REMOVED: 5 APR 84 *******************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
6                     PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is
10 privatly owned, I retain the right to remove any and all messages which
11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be
12 periodically purged of messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
13 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the
14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the
15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace
16 the line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
17 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
18 ************************************************************
19 
20 OscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscar
21      The dinner of rabit that the cat whom I seemed to have befriended 
22 somehow, was good and filled my empty stomach.
23      But now,  the hot scortching sun that had beaten down all day was 
24 gone, and the chill night was once more creaping in.  Warming my hands 
25 over the crackling fire,  I sit and wonder what to do next.  My search 
26 so far has been a total bust.   Beyond finding a possible clue back at 
27 the  streem,  I have not found a trace of PAM since.   With the coming 
28 of darkness so matched my mood.
29      Absentmindedly scratching the ears of the great cat,  I look  out 
30 at  the  clouds beginning to form covering the two moons crossing  the 
31 night sky.   "It looks like we are in for a storm,  eh Green  Eyes?  I 
32 think that we best find some high ground just in case." 
33      That  grove of trees looks like it is a bit higher then the  rest 
34 of this, so it will probably do.
35      Soon  the  clouds  break loose their heavy load in  a  tremendous 
36 downpour.   Retreating  to  the shelter of the tent to  wait  out  the 
37 storm,  I  gaze  out  through the tent flap at  the  ragging  elements 
38 without  as  it tears at the land making rivlets of mud tearing  small 
39 clumps  of grass and small stones loose.
40      Soon  the  small depression that I had encamped in was a  rushing 
41 torrent of water and mud.   I was very glad indeed that I had  decided 
42 to move out before the rains came.
43      Seeing that I was safe for the time being, I lay down to get some 
44 sleep wondering if I would ever find PAM and the way back home. 
45 OscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscarOscar
46 
47 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
48 SOMEONE MENTIONED CRIME BEING BASICALLY UNEFFECTED WHERE STRICT GUN CON-
49 TROL IS ENFORCED. THE REASON FOR THIS IS GUNS HAVE BEEN PROLIFIC FOR 
50 YEARS. ANYTIME SOMETHING BECOMES CONTROLED OR ILLEGAL, YOU CAN BET
51 THERE'S A WHOLE LOT OF IT ALREADY AROUND.
52 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
53 ########################################WEell, I see the same stupid
54 a2guments are still out there against Gun control!!!!
55 Will someone give me one good reason for anyone to own any kind of firearm?
56 If 'guns were no longer available to the public then they wouldn't be
57 available to the criminal, as 99.99% of all guns used in crime are either
58 Saturday night specials or stolen from "re3pectable" citizens.
59 The crimes ofp passion an$ the needless slaughter of our children through
60 accidental usage of guns would cease if we had strong National gun control
61 laws and even stronger enforcement. A3 for you so called "Sportsmen" out
62 there, why don' you grow up!! As long as we have supermarkets, Farms, &
63 ranches there is noneed for firearms, Ju3st plain old money.........
64 ##C.Y.M.#######################4/2/84 9:18 am###############################
65 Zipster & Hawthorne:Hey guys! This system uses up the *SAME* amount of
66 space for each line you enter. Be it 1 character or 80, it still uses up a 
67 sector on the disk. Since there are only 629 free sectors (- 18 for Mikey's 
68 header) would you please try to use longer lines? The system will let you 
69 know when you reach the end of the line. It will quit echoing your 
70 characters back, so if you are in the middle of a word & it won't let you
71 enter the rest of it, just backspace erase the partial word, hit return &
72 continue on the new line. OK?  Thanks.
73 
74 Deborah, I believe he was EXCLUDING war casualties in that comparison of 
75 high school sport deaths & gun deaths. We ARE talking about CIVILIAN gun
76 control, after all.
77 CYM:I hate to tell you this but those farms & ranches USE GUNS! (GASP!) 
78 We used a rifle to kill the animals we slaughtered for our own consumption.
79 And while we did set traps, we also needed rifles for shooting coyotes when 
80 they went after the sheep. (I know, many farmers & ranchers exaggerate the
81 amount of damage done to their stock by predators. BUT IT STILL HAPPENS!!)
82 (Matter of fact, feral dogs are becoming a problem in some areas!)
83 As for hunters, I've never been hunting, but I know people who have.
84 THEY used the meat, hide & antlers of the deer they shot. I admit that this
85 is not what many hunters do, but I consider the fools who go out there and 
86 don't USE what they shoot to be BUTCHERS (at best). 
87 There is also the often overlooked point that in many (not all) 
88 hunting areas, if the hunters don't kill the deer (or elk, or moose, or...)
89 many more would die of starvation! Back east (in Maine, I believe) exactly
90 that happen when "conservationists" & "ecologists" stopped the annual moose 
91 season.After starvation weakened the herds, disease killed over 50% of them
92 
93 Someone else mentioned the difficulty of stopping the production
94 of guns. Well, he understated the case considerable! Most street punks in 
95 New York (or most other large cities) can tell you how to make a handgun out
96 of things that I rather doubt you would care to outlaw! (I will NOT give 
97 details, as we have too many mental midgets that would build them if I
98 told them how!) As an example, would you care to try banning:
99 Matches, marbles, ball bearings, & ALL metal tubing under .25 inch? 
100 (there are many more items, but I think you get the drift)
101 Oh, by the way, homemade guns have been made in PRISON! I somehow doubt that
102 we can exercise that much control over the general public, and even if
103 we could you can see that it won't help!
104 _________________________________Leonard____________________________________
105 Okay, here it is.......
106      The summer of 1787 was long and hot, especially for the delegates
107 to the constitutional convention in Philidelphia. The country had been
108 run for nearly ten years under the Articles of Confederation, and it
109 wasn't working. The states had too much power and the country was 
110 divided into the states' own fifedoms. The handfull of men in Phila-
111 delphia had to write a comprehensive document, rigid enough to maintain
112 order, yet flexible enough to withstand the test of time. On top of 
113 that they had to appease the individual wants of different states.
114     So the main body of the constitution was puposefully ambiguous.
115 And when the bill of rights was tacked on, it was writen in the same
116 manner. This allowed the interpretation of the constitution to change
117 with the times. For this reason the constitution cannot be literally
118 interpreted! In my text I was merely joking. When taken literally
119 the constitution means very little. Instead, the "Supreme law of the
120 land" is what the courts interpret the constitution as saying. This
121 is what Madison, Hamilton, et. al. intended, as is evidenced by the 
122 Federalist 
123 (oops) Papers. 
124    You also claim that the constitution states that "If something is 
125 not indicated within the constitution, that does not mean that it is
126 allowed, but rather the opposite." I ask where? Could you be refering
127  to the Tenth Amendment? It reads as follows "The powers not delegated
128 to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the
129 States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
130 In a very narrow literal sense this could be applicable, but I hardly
131 think that was the intent of the amendment. It emphasizes a federal
132 system, and that topic could fill the rest of the disk!
133      Shifting gears to the present, What should I see at breakfast 
134 this morning? That singer Marvin Gaye was shot with a .38 caliber 
135 pistol in an argument over insurance WITH HIS FATHER. I could make
136 several very tasteless remarks about the man killing in self defense,
137 but I'll hold back. If his father had only had a knife would things
138 have been different? It would be difficult for a father to stab his
139 son to death, but in the heat of passion a handgun is too easy. Just
140 point and pull. Ask Marvins father what he thinks about hand guns
141 now. But no matter, us soft-headed liberals just don't know what the
142 world is really like. Yup, It's a mans world out there, and its either
143 kill or be killed.
144                                                       Mr. Tim
145  Addenum : In my first quote I left out a "not", and it changed the 
146            context of the quote, i.e. I discovered what ENTER ONLY
147            Means. Not complaining, mind you.
148 ############################################################################
149 off
150 off
151 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
152 Well,it seems that I xave sliped a few disks somehow,enter only is obveously
153 new.we have a few new people,there is no story line to contribute to.
154 I am DEPRESSED about this!!
155 C.Y.M.:when I was a metal shop student in high school(not long ago) I made
156 several weapons that would kill a person very efficently,2 were guns.the
157 construction plans for them were incredibly easy to get,a radical book
158 store in downtown portland carrys them.I might add that when I am downtown I
159 usualy carry some type of weapon (not the guns) and have had to use it
160 more then once.
161 The Man in Gray
162 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
163 WELL FOLKS, LET'S TRY IT AGAIN! I'M TRULY SORRYABOUT THOSE NASTY LITTLE
164 ESCAPE SEQUENCES. THE TERMINAL I USE AT MY WORK REALITY WAS GIVING ME 
165 
166 TROUBLES FOR SOME REASON I STILL   HAVEN'T FATHOMED. I'VE SWITCHED OVER
167                                                             THOUGH
168 I AM EXPERIENCING ONE MINOR DIFFICULTY- WHEN I  HIT THE SPACE BAR
169 
(AND I MEAN  THAT  FIGUREATIVLY) THE SYSTEM JUMPS OUT OF THE
170 ENTER STATE AND GO TO THE REA    STATE. AM I DOING SOMETHING TO
171 CAU   E  THIS? I'M STILL NEW AT THIS AND I REALLY DON'T WANT TO MUSS
172 U P ANYTHING. IS IT POSSIBLE MY MODEM IS THE PROBLEM? AS FOR THE GUN
173 CONTROL DEBATE I SAID MY PIECE LAST WEEK. SEE YOU ALL LATER.
174                F. FIN
175 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
176 *****************************************************************
177 MR.TIM: I SEE THAT YOU HAVE DISCOVERED THE HORRIBLE TRUTH ABOUT 
178 THE CONSTITUTION. THAT BEING THAT IT IS WRITTEN SUCH THAT ANYONE 
179 CAN INTERPERT IT TO FIT WHATEVER THEY WANT. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS 
180 READ IT FOR A BIT, AND YOU WILL FIND A PASSAGE THAT WILL FIT WHAT 
181 EVER YOUR FAVORITE PERSUATION IS. JUST LIKE A BIBLE. FOR THE 
182 CONSTITUTION IS THE BIBLE OF THE UNITED STATES. AND LIKE A BIBLE, 
183 IT IS USED BY WHOEVER WIELDS IT TO SUPPORT THEIR CLIAMS AS THE 
184 ONLY TRUE INTERPERTATION. THIS IS NOT TO SAY THAT IT IS A 
185 WORTHLESS PEICE OF PAPER, FAR BE FROM IT! IT IS THE VERY 
186 FOUNDATION UPON WHICH WE HAVE FORMED THIS NATION. BUT WE MUST 
187 REMEMBER THAT IT IS THE FOUNDATION, AND NOT THE SUPERSTUCTURE.
188 ********************* CISTOP MIKEY ****************************
189 !#!@$#$%$^%&*^&(&*)*()*^%&^#$%^#^^$%^#$%^$%^$#^$^$^$%^$&%^&&%*%*#^$#^$
190 WARNING NOTICE TO ALL DEMOCRATES AND OTHERS WHO CARE...
191 In the preceeding messages we have all read quite a bit of material on
192 the interpretation of the consitution. Some people don't realize it,
193 but the one branch of government that does the interpretation is the
194 Supreme Court. Not the President, and not Congress. The Supreme court
195 and its relation with the Constitution give it its balancing power with
196 the other two branches. Most people do know that Supreme court positions
197 are appointed, and are appointed for life. THESE are not elected by
198 popular vote, nor is there any ratifying process by Congress. These
199 positions of great importance to our country are appointed by the president.
200 The President we 'elect' but none the less the choice, if he has a need
201 to, is in this one man's hands. Do people realize just how important
202 this selection process is? Do people realize that if the current adminis-
203 tration is re-elected, it will probably have the oppurtunity to appoint
204 TWO MORE MEMBERS to the most powerful and influential court in the land!
205 A court that when loaded with the right, interpret the consitution quite
206 differently from when it is loaded with the not-so-right (I just could't
207 use the word "left"). When anyone starts mass-quoting the constitution,
208 they always seem to forget(a few have remembered here though) that it
209 is not so much what the consitution reads but how it is read. A very
210 careful distinction must be made here. A national gun control law is
211 not likely given the makeup of the current supreme court, where no
212 doubt such a case would surely end up. It is important to remember
213 our series of checks and balances, and how, at the present time, the
214 leadership of this country is in such a state that liberal ideas such
215 as gun control, no matter how much sense it makes, don't have much
216 of a chance getting through. All one has to do is look at the amount of
217 de-control that is happening. The airlines, the oil companies, the
218 auto makers are all thanking (well most of the airlines I should add)
219 the administration for its hands off, let industry do as it thinks
220 best attitude. Also, don't forget the power of lobbies. The NRA is
221 one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington. Our own governer is
222 a member of the NRA, and has appeared in ads for them. This latest
223 teflon bullet debate hasn't helped their image much, but knowing the
224 NRA, they will certainly survive, and bounce back stronger than
225 ever. There...my political statements, and this session of poly-sci
226 101 is over. No doubt my ears will be burning before too long, but hey,
227 that's what the backwater is all about. No one talkes about relevant
228 issues such as gun control on CBBS right?
229 #@$!@#$#@$%#% L'homme sans parity $#%#$%*#$%*#$^#@^^%^#$^#^$%&$%&$%&$%&#
230 
231 AND WHERE ELSE COULD YOU PRESENT YOUR VIEWS WITHOUT GETTING A PUNCH`
232 IN THE FACE RIGHT?
233 ---------------------------------------------------------
234 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX    AS FOR GUN CONTROL I SAY THAT A LAW 
235 SHOULD BE MADE THAT WOULD EITHER MAKE SURE
236 OWNERS OF GUNS KNEW HOW TO USE THEM PROPERLY
237 SO NO ACCIDENTS WERE PEOPLE COULD GET HURT
238 COULD HAPPEN,AND RESTRICTING ALL PEOPLE WITH A CRIMINAL RECORD TO OWN A GUN
239      OR A LAW THAT WOULD OUTLAW GUNS UTTERLY EXCEPT TO PEOPLE WHO USE THEM 
240 FOR THEIR BUSINESSES(FARMERS,GUARDS ETC)
241 THIS WOULD CONTROL GUNS TO A POINT I THINK,BUT GUNS CAN BE SMUGGLED IN SO I
242 THINK OTHER MEASURES SHOULD BE TAKEN TO PREVENT ARMED ROBBERY SUCH AS GUARDS
243 OR MORE AND BETTER ALARM SYSTEMSTHOUTHE LATTER WOULD BE TAKEN IN AN EXTREME
244 PRO,I THINK THE FORMER WOULD BE SUFFICIENT
245 
246 PHERIC
247 CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCWHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THE SYSTEM,I CANNOT 
248 
249 REPLACE ANYTHING
250 
251 PLEASE RESPOND!!!
252 ZZZXZXZXZXZXZXZXXZXZXXZXZXZXZXZX
253 ****************************************************************************
254     SORRY ABOUT THAT BUT THIS MODEM SOFTWARE DOESNT ALLOW ME TO CHANGE
255 THE LINE LENGTH.SORRY.
256      THINK THAT THE PREVIOUS INFORMATION ON THE SUPREMEM COURT BEING THE
257 SUPREME COUT WAS WRONG.WE ELCET THOSE PEOPLY WHO STAND FOR WHAT WE BELEIVE
258 IN ON ALL ISSUES IT DOESNT ALWAWORKS .USUALLY
259 NOT ALLWAYS BUT IT HAS IT'S MOMENTS.LOBBYING GROUPS INSTEAD OF VOTING TRY
260 TO CHANGE OUR SENATORS,AND REPRESENTATIVES MINDS.BASICALLY
261 THEY ARE JUST GLORIFIED AD-MEN. BUT IF WE VOTE FOR THE STRONG MIND,AND THOSE
262 WITH FIRM CONVICTIONS WE MOST LIKELY WILL GET WHAT WE WANT. AND THAT IS A
263 LEGAL SYSTEM WITH LAWS WE WANT. THAT'S THE IDEA.SO IN A SENSE WE HAVE A
264 MAJOR PART TO DO WITH THE SUPREME COURT!NOT REMOVED FROM US AS IT SOUNDED
265 EDRLIER IS IT?
266 WHATI MEANT EARLIER ABOUT THE DIFFICULTY OF MAKING GUNS IS THE
267 HIGH LEVEL OF DIFFICULTY OF MAKING GOOD,QUALITY DESIGNS.THAT IS WHY I HAD
268 THOSE FIVE WORDS IN THERE ANYWAY REMBER?'GUNS,RIFLES,ET CETRA'.KINDA FORGOT
269 IT HUH?I DIDN'T MEEN LITTLE CANNONS OR PELLET TUBES I MEANT
270 THE BIG MEAN SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIALS THAT ARE SO EASY TO GET ,AND HAVE BEEN
271 SINCE BEFORE THE YEAR 1971.LIKE
272 I SAID THOSE BIG ONEHARD
273 TO PRODUCE BUT EASY TO DISTRIBUTE. I WANT SOMEONE TO CITE A MODERN EXAMPLE
274 OFEFFECTIVE GUN CONTROL.
275 ********************************************************HAWTHORNE***********
276  One small note on the Supreme Court:
277       The presidents choices are reviewed by the senate, and in theory
278 congress can impeach and do several other things to intimidate 
279 justices, but as a rule the presidents appointments are accepted and
280 the court has a free reign. So there is definately a valid fear
281 of Ronnie giving us two more justices and really leaving his mark on
282 American politics. Please do not take offense, I am just clarifying 
283 your point.
284                                                   Mr. Tim
285 
286 :************************************************************:
287 
288 Enough is enough. You gun control advocates have been duped by 
289 anti-capitalist forces that hve taken control of the American 
290 mass media. Have any of you ever been shot at? Do any of you 
291 know anyone who has been killed by a handgun? Of course not, 
292 because nobody has been.
293 
294 There is no danger from handguns...or any other kind of lethal 
295 weopon. The whole anti-gun hysteria is being cr
296 the liberals who control the press. If so many people are
297 being killed by handguns why don't any of you know any of 
298 them? Because no one is being killed, that's why. You're all 
299 being lied to by enemies of the tactical weopons industry.
300 
301 Guns, in the hands of responsible, patriotic, Americans, are 
302 what has made this nation what it is. I offer my own success 
303 in life as testimony of how gun toting Americans have made 
304 this nation great.
305 
306                        LeRoy McKane
307 
308 :**********************************************************:
309 MIKEY: I CAN CERTAINLY APPRECIATE WHY YOU CHANGED THE SYSTEM
310 SO THAT NO CHANGES ARE ALLOWED. I KNOW I'VE BEEN FRUSTR
311 WHEN PEOPLE HAVE MESSED WITH MY ENTRIES. I, TOO, WAS PISSED 
312 OFF WHEN SOME CLOWN DELETED THAT DISC. BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO 
313 EDIT, REVISE, OR CHANGE MY THOUGHTS IS A REAL FRUSTRATION. I 
314 DON'T KNOW HOW OTHERS FEEL, BUT I WOULD PREFER THE RISK OF
315 VANDALISM TO THE FRUSTRATION OF NOT BEING ABLE TO POLISH MY 
316 WORK. IT'S YOUR SYSTEM, AND YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE THE RIGHT TO 
317 RUN IT ANY WAY YOU WANT, BUT I WOULD HOPE YOU WILL RECONSIDER 
318 THIS EDITORIAL POLICY. GARY 
319 *************************************************************
320 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
321 LIKE HAWTHORNE SAID IT IS ALL CONTROLLED BY CHECKS AND BALLANCES.THAT IS THE
322 IDEA.NO SINGLE PART OF THE WHOLE HAS CONTROLLING POWER OVER THE OTHERS.SO IF
323 ANY ONE OF THE THREE SECTIONS OF GOVERNMENT TRIES THEY CANNOT BETHE SOLE
324 BASE OF POWER.
325 BY THE WAY THE THREE SECTIONS ARE SOMETHING LIKE CONGRESS,EXECUTIVE AND LEG-
326 AL.
327 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ZZZZZZZZZZIPSTER+++++++++++
328  
329  
330 THE ONLY PURPOSE OF GUN CONTROL LAWS WOULD BE TO FURTHER PAD THE POCKETS OF 
331 ATTORNEYS AND OR LAWYERS!  TO BAD BUT WE PRODUCE MORE LAWS THAN CAN BE 
332 ENFORCED AND SPEND MORE MONEY KEEPING CRIMINALS OUT OF JAIL THAN WHAT WE 
333 SPEND ON JAIL SPACE TO KEEP THEM IN.  INSTEAD OF GUN CONTROL LETS HAVE 
334 ATTORNEY CONTROL LAWS.
335 AFTER ALL LOOK AT ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MURDERED BY ATTORNEYS.!!
336          GEORGE LURKER
337 ****************************************************************************
338 The last I heard Oregon was talking about putting the state laws on a 
339 computer, and allowing anybody with a modem to dial in and acess it. But
340 the lawyers were fighting the idea, saying that easy acces to the laws
341 was too dangerous, only a lawyer could understand the law. [Or should we
342 say that they fear losing thier jobs because we might see how useless they
343 are?] Has anyone heard more of this project?
344 
345 Enter only is a nusiance, but I am willing to put up with it for a while.
346 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::I THINK GUN CONTROL SHOULD BE BANNED AND 
347 THE CONSTITUTION SHOULD BE BURNED!AND IF PEOPLE WANT TO BUILD HOMEMADE GUNS 
348 OUT OF PIPE AND WOOD AND MATCHES THEN LET THEM THEY WILL ONLY BLOW THEIR FAC
349 ES OFF IN THE END!!                          
350  We don't need gun control, just LeRoy control
351                                                       Mr. Tim
352 -----------------------------------------------------------------------
353 To: Michael Bigham
354      Where is my beer?
355           Adrienne
356 ?????????????????????????
357 **********************************************************
358 GEORGE LURKER: I GOT A BETTER IDEA, LETS GIVE ALL THE LAWYERS THEIR VERY
359 OWN HANDGUNS ALL LOADED AND READY TO GO AND LET THEM KILL THEMSELVES
360 ALL OFF! I ALSO THINK THAT ANY GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL WHO HAS A DECISION
361 IN MAKING WAR MUST BE REQUIRED TO SERVE AS MUCH TIME ON THE FRONT LINES
362 IN THE TRENCHES AS ANY OTHER SOLDIER. I'VE GOT A FEELING THAT THEY MIGHT
363 THINK TWICE BEFORE DOING SOMETHING DRASTIC.
364 ************************ CISTOP MIKEY ******************************
365 I'm in favor of gun control. Any idiot can kill someone with a gun, but it takes skill & practice to kill with a
366 garotte, shurikin, yawara or even a sword. Let's get rid of the guns and then I can live like a king!
367              Gaius
368 && && &&
369 Mikey, I seldom see any pressing need to go back over my messages, but the ENTER ONLY mode seems to be causing some
370 of us more grief than it's worth. I hope we can get back to normal soon so the Backwater can become (semi-)legible
371 again.
372               && The Mad Actor &&
373 ************************************************************************************************************************
374 
375 TO THE WORLD:I MAKE THIS CONFESSION FROM MY HEART.\
376 THIS IS HARD FOR ME,BUT I FEEL THAT I MUST TELL THE WORLD IN ORDER 
377 THAT I MAY LIVE IN PEACE WITH MYSELF.
378 THIS IS IT:
379                   I AM GAY.
380 DO YOU HEAR THAT WORLD?
381 
382 
383    I AM GAY!!!!
384 
385 THERE, NOW I FEEL AS IF I MAY LIVE WITH MYSELF NOW.
386 I THINK THAT IT IS BETER THAT ALL PEOPLE BE MORE OPEN WITH EACH OTHER AND 
387 NOT HIDE ANY SECRETS.
388 I URGE ALL OF YOU OUT THERE TO NOT HIDE ANY LONGER YOUR DEEP DARK SECRETS.
389 IT FEELS SO GOOD NOT TO BE IN THE CLOSET ANY MORE.
390 I AM FREE!
391 
392                         SINCERILY YOURS
393                               DENNIS LESLIE
394 
395 
396 *******************************************************************************
397 
398 
399 
400 AW, SHOOT. I WAS HOPING RIGHT UP UNTIL THE END OF THE ABOVE THAT IT WAS FROM FRANK IVANCIE. OH, WELL...
401 !|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|___THE SILVER GHOST___!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!|!
402 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
403 I CAN SEE NO WAY TO GET RID OF GUNS IN THE HANDS OF THOSE WHO WANT THEM.DOES
404 ANYONE OUT THERE AGREE WITH WHAT I THINK HEINLIEN WAS SAYING ABOUT AN ARMED POP-ULACE CONTRIBUTING TO MANNERS AND 
405 SELFRELIANCE. I'M NOT MUCH INTO THE MACHO THING BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT KNOWING THAT 
406 YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN LIFE WOULD CONTRIBUTE TO A POLITER AND MORE
407 SELF ASSURED SOCIETY. I'M ALSO SURE THAT ANY BURGLAR OR CRIMANAL THAT KNEW HE
408 COULD EXPECT TO GET SHOT ANYWHERE HE ATTEMPTED TO COMMIT A CRIME MIGHT HAVE
409 SECOND THOUGHTS. AS IT IS NOW IF YOU DON'T KILL THEM IN THE ACT OF BREAKING 
410 INTO YOUR HOUSE OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE YOU CAN EXPECT TO GO TO PRISON 
411 YOURSELF. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE LESS ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF CRIMINALS 
412 AND A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF VICTIMS. 
413                                  THIS LETTER SEEMS A LITTLE CONFUSED
414                                   BUT ITS 3:00 AND I'M TIRED
415                 STEVE
416 8888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888
417 Well now, there seems to be some debate about guns out there
418 I ask you, HOW repressive can our government get if there were no guns?
419 All those gun banners out there please decide whether you want a ban on guns or not
420 If you do, then move to U.S.S.R.. There, ALL guns are banned( unless you belong to the army)
421 As long as there are weapons in the general public the government will never resort to martial law, because if it does,
422 it will be overthrown!
423 
424 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
425    Aaaron -- seems as if you have enough ammunition being discharged on your
426 side of the gun control debate.  I'm abandoning ship and leaving back to my
427 original side.  (and I think it's time to restate my case)
428   1.  No restrictions should be placed upon the ownership, of weapons.
429       This includes firearms, ammunition, parts and supplies.
430   2.  Each and every person -- with no exeption must complete a course in
431       safety, maintenance, handling and using firearms; then shoot a qualifying
432       score with rifle and pistol on a target range.
433 There!  The liberals should be mad at me because I favor no gun control, the
434 conservatives because (if they're consistent) I advocate another law regulating
435 the schools.  Now let's look at why.
436    Accidents happen.  Most accidents happen through ignorance.  Most of the
437 city folk (and most americans are city folk) have not handled firearms and
438 have not had any training in doing so.  The exeptions, of course, are those
439 who have had military training.  This vast pool of ignorant people regard
440 firearms with fear and loathing.  They want to play the ostrich game -- ban
441 these nasty things and they will go away.  Sorry, folks, they won't go away.
442 Firearms are not difficult to make in a home shop.  (Good firearms are a 
443 result of skill and patience.  The british tried to ban firearms to the natives
444 when they controlled Afganistan.  The natives tore up iron rails from the 
445 railways, bored holes lengthwise, filed down the rail to barrel size and 
446 fitted firing mechanisms from still other stolen rails and killed many, many
447 british soldiers with them.)  Ammunition is also quite easy to make.  However,
448 these homemade cannons are likely to be less reliable on the average than
449 commercially manufactured goods.  Should gun control advocates suceed in 
450 banning legal ownership of firearms,  the age and condition of the vast pool
451 of firearms would deteriorate.  I feel that this would lead to more danger as
452 I feel more threatened by a gun in poor condition than one in good condition.
453   Everyone should know how a gun feels when it is fired, what it can and cannot
454 do, how to use and maintain it.  A gun is a tool.  It's purpose is to kill.
455 We need to realize that it is a final solution, and that ultimately we cannot
456 undo the use of a gun.  We also need to know how to use one if necessary.  
457 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
458 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!\
459 I HAVEN'T THOUGHT ABOUT GUNS FOR QUITE SOME TIME TILL THIS DEBATE BEGAN.
460 BUT YESTERDAY WHILE PRACTICING ONE OF MY FAVORITE PASTIMES, DAYDREAMING,
461 I CAME UP WITH A SOLUTION! IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN, BUT I WOULD ENJOY IT IF
462 IT DID. 
463 SEE WHAT THEY COULD DO IS DIVIDE THE WORLD IN HALF WITH SOMETHING LIKE
464 A CHINA WALL. ONE SIDE WOULD ALLOW FIREARMS, THE OTHER WOULDN'T! NO ONE
465 WOULD BE FORCED TO LIVE IN EITHER ONE, ALL COULD PICK WHICH THEY PREFER-
466 ED. THE WALL WOULD HAVE DISENTEGRATER CAPABILITIES, NOT FOR HUMANS, BUT
467 FOR FIREARMS, SO THAT NONE COULD PASS THROUGH. ALSO ANYONE ATTEMPTING TO
468 CREATE A FIREARM ON THE WRONG SIDE WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY TRANSFERED TO THE
469 PROPER SIDE.
470 THEN WHEN I FELT LIKE A STEAK, DEER OF COURSE, I WOULD HAVE TO OUTWIT
471 THE ANIMAL. AT LEAST IT WOULD HAVE HALF A CHANCE, AND THERE WOULD BE A
472 GREATER CHANCE FOR THE SRONGER, SMARTER ANIMALS TO SURVIVE. I WOULDN'T
473 NEED TO WORRY ABOUT ME OR MY FAMILY BEING ACCIDENTLY SHOT ANYWAY. THERE'S
474 ENOUGH WAYS OUT THERE ALREADY. AND WHY NOT PUT ALL THE CARS ON ONE SIDE
475 ALSO.....AND NUCLEAR BOMBS............PEOPLE WITH UNCONTROLED VIOLENT
476 TENDENCIES............HEY!........I THINK I MAY BE ON TO SOMETHING
477 HERE!
478 PIPER: WHERE IN THE WORLD DOWNTOWN DO YOU GO? I'VE SPENT HOURS AND DAYS
479 DOWNTOWN AND HAVE NEVER FELT THE NEED FOR A WEAPON. I ADMIT THAT CITY
480 LIVING IS VERY NEW FOR ME, AM I MISSING SOMETHING? I WOULD IMAGINE
481 I'M A BIT NAIVE IN THIS REGARD.........SHOULD I CHANGE MY LACADAISICAL
482 WAYS?
483 ?!?!?!?!?!?!??!!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
484 P.S SORRY PIPER, I MEANT TO ADDRESS THE MAN IN GRAY! NOT BEING ABLE TO
485 MAKE CORRECTIONS THO IS A GOOD TRADE FOR VANDALISM. GOOD IDEA MIKEY!
486 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
487 ########################################YOU ALL MISSED MY POINT! I SAID
488 THAT WITH THE GUN CONTROL LAWS WE ALSO NEED STRICTLY ENFORCED LAWS. Any one
489 caught with an unregistered firearm or
490 using one in a criminal act would face the strictest of convictions, no plea
491 bargaining allowed, only time with no parole allowed. I have the feeling
492 that if this were implemented we would see a vast reduction in the criminal
493 statistics and the need for new prison space. As a mater of fact we could 
494 use the no parole bit right now and also do away with plea bargaining.
495 ##############C.Y.M.#############################4/3/84 8:54am##############
496 
497 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
498 SOMEONE MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT PROFESSIONAL THIEVES
499 AND GUNS.  THEY ARE ONE GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD
500 DEARLY LOVE TO SEE GUNS BANNED.  IF THERE IS ONE THING
501 THEY FEAR MORE THEN ANYTHING ELSE IN THEIR LINE OF 
502 WORK, IT'S SOME CRAZY HOUSE OWNER WITH A GUN. THEY
503 HAVE A TENDANCY TO SHOOT FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS 
504 LATER. FEW HAVE EVER FIRED A GUN BEFORE, AND HAVE
505 NO IDEA WHAT THE THING IS ALL ABOUT. MANY DON'T 
506 EVEN REALIZE THAT IT CAN KILL UNTIL IT IS TOO LATE.
507 QUESTION, WHY IS IT WE HAVE LAWS THAT STATE THAT YOU
508 'MUST' KILL A PERSON IF YOU SHOOT HIM, OR YOU'RE 
509 GOING TO BE IN BIG TROUBLE?
510 +++++++++++++++++ REX ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
511 Piper:I have a few ideas that you have overlooked. 
512 1.  The trouble isn't limited to people with guns misusing them.Contary to a
513 statement made above, it does NOT require much skill to kill someone with a
514 sword, club or ax - IF the person you are attacking doesn't know much about
515 their use either! Knives do take some skill, but you can still mess someone 
516 up pretty badly. So the REAL problem is NOT guns, knives, etc., it's AWDW
517 (Assault with a Deadly Weapon) (should have been ADW above, sorry). 
518 2.  Too many people seem to think they can settle a dispute with force. They
519 may eliminate the other party(s) in the dispute, but...
520 We need to find a way to teach people NOT to use force. If someone ATTACKS
521 you (PHYSICALLY, not VERBALLY!) you are justified in defending yourself.
522 (Note however, that it is almost ALWAYS possible to provoke an attack! This
523 needs to be discouraged too.)
524 3. Therefore, we need to have strict penalties for violent behavior. I am 
525 not just talking about adult criminals either. We need to start with 
526 schoolyard bullies and work our way up. 
527 
528 Since I was one of the VICTIMS of schoolyard bullies etc, I may be somewhat 
529 prejudiced. As for the Marvin Gaye incident, I don't give a DAMN about how
530 his father feels about guns! He had no business getting into a FIGHT 
531 (read the paper, "physical altercation" ie FIGHT) with ANYONE. & when
532 he brings a weapon OF ANY KIND into it - he gets NO sympathy from me! The
533 whole object of a fight is to drive off, incapacitate, or kill your oppenent
534 Which you are trying to do depends on whether you are the attacker or the
535 attackee. If your opponent is unarmed and not a martial arts expert, you are
536 in no real danger. So if you go for a weapon, you had better know what you 
537 are doing. (ie Have a VERY good reason, such as you stand 5'2" & weigh 100 
538 pounds dripping wet and he looks like King Kong's standin) Otherwise YOU are
539 now the one ATTACKING! 
540 I believe there is something like this in the law. I think it's
541 called "sufficient force" or something like that.
542 Finally, as an example of how weapons CAN be handled properly, 
543 I offer the SCA. In the SCA, swords, maces, knives & the occasional pistol
544 are almost always at hand, yet they only get used for display or in REAL 
545 emergencies. This is probably because we are ALL quite well aware of what 
546 they can do & how they are used. I have seen ONCE seen someone reach for his
547 belt knife during an argument. In that case he was LOUDLY told to take his
548 hand of the knife. (not by the person he was arguing with, either!)
549 "Drawing steel" except for display, use as an eating utensil etc, is 
550 ACTIVELY discouraged. If you cannot handle a weapon properly, you are told 
551 to learn how or leave it at home. While we "play" with our wooden "mock-ups"
552 playing with the real thing is NOT done. Maybe this is what should be done
553 in the "real" world with ALL privately owned weapons. No more "BANG! you're 
554 dead", instead take the kid out to the target range with a REAL gun. And 
555 give him "what for" if he does anything with his toy gun that he shouldn't 
556 do with the real thing. But we'll never get parents to go along with it.....
557 _______________________________Leonard______________________________________
558 The Portland Science Fiction Society (PorSFiS) is having a meeting at the
559 Multnomah County Library (downtown) at 2pm. The Doctor Who fan club meets 
560 there at about 3 or 3:30. Many of the denizens of BWMS are frequenting these
561 meetings. (We talk during the break & after the meeting we go to
562 PC&S (the official PorSFiS pub)). 
563 Everyone is invited (_especially_ the person who altered the
564 disks over the weekend). Several of us are rather identifiable:
565 MIG: wears all gray
566 BARD: carries a red cord (something about "Hairy Fishnuts"???)
567 the apprentice: has a PINK & PURPLE braid he has been known to use as a 
568 headband (maybe he's color blind? that would explain Fast Freddie's 
569 remodelling?)
570 Ian MacHinery: identifiable by thehis equipment (you expect the NETWORK rep 
571 to be without a COMPUTER?!)
572 If any others who are attending would care to let us know how to 
573 identify them leave msgs here. (Note this is NOT required)
574 I hope piper, Wassir, & the Mckane Enterprises rep will attend. If not,
575 there is a meeting every two weeks.
576 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""Green Eyes"""""(feeling VERY out of character)
577 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
578 
Can you legislate something like gun control? It seems more like a
579 
cultural phenomenum of an insecure & paranoid people. Vote for
580 
Jesse Jackson.               -- Pops --
581 
*************************************************************************
582 I, too, should like to hear the instances of downtown violence, MIG.  It 
583 might bring theory and politics down to the local, pragmatic level.   Dave
584 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
585 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
586 Deborah,Dave:I have been attacked 2 times in my life,both in downtown 
587 portland,both`at night.the first happened at the corner arcade in txhe
588 grayhhoound bus terminal`block^@F8D(
589 
590 something is going on here!
591 it started afte I had just purchased a semi-controled subwtance from
592 a local vendor,somebody who evidently watche`d t the whole thing tried to`
593 obpatain all of my possesions by using ca knife of the size frank ivance 
594 wanted banned.the second one was at apartment on 35th and division when
595 someone tried to break e(just lost my modem)ok,i think.
596 tried to break in to the place,I might add`that I had no clothing on
597 (niether did the`person I was with) in this case I was not actualy attacked 
598 but I brained
599 him`anyway for interupting me!
600 Leonard:wanna sell your modem 1??? PLEASE!!!!!!!
601 The Man in Gray
602 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
603 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
604       THE FOLLOWING IS AN EXCERT FROM THE WORDS OF GHANDI......COME ON..
605 YOU REEMEMBER.....MAHATMA!
606   "I OBJECT TO VIOLENCE BECAUSE, WHEN IT APPEARS TO DO GOOD, THE GOOD IS
607 ONLY TEMPORARY, THE EVIL IT DOES IS PERMANENT".
608 
609   "UNLESS THE WORLD ADOPTS NONVIOLENCE, IT WILL SPELL CERTAIN SUICIDE 
610 FOR MANKIND".
611 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
612 Ayeeeeeeeeeeeeee
613 ***********************************************
614 GEE, I THOUGHT PAM WAS GOING TO SHOW UP BY NOW. SIGH......
615 ********************************************************
616 Greetings:  
617      First off, Deborah, I don't usually offer an opinion on such things pro
618 or con like gun control, abortion, or other such items of debate, but what 
619 you are suggesting as far as a tight national gun control program would be 
620 nigh well on impossible to institute.  The point that Leonard made about an-
621 imal starvation is very accurate.  Hunting, while I do not participate in it
622 , serves an intrinsically important function in keeping animal populations 
623 under control.  Failure to do so would eventually result in the total death 
624 of such herds as deer, elk, moose, etc.  There is a point after which the 
625 environment can no longer support vast quantities of animals. Witness the
626 third-world countries (and I am NOT implying that they are animals, but the
627 same principles apply).  Also: The plan that you propose would, I believe,
628 lead to a total police state similar to that in 1984.  It would be one step
629 closer to the Big Brother concept. Outa room.  Bye. Whiskey Vic.

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