From: BEATLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: backmasks      
Date & Time: 07/14/90 22:59:44
Message Number  6352

> "Lwdre op inth fred vwan."
 
 As opposed to "Lwdre op inth barney vwan"??
 
  I actually think it sounds more like "enin rebmun"... but that's only
my opinion...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/14/90 23:04:35
Message Number  6353

 On the subject of the metal music that advocates satansism, etc.:
  I think that it may be a very valid type of music, considering the 
fact that besides the lyrics, there is music. I know sometimes this 
isn'ttrue, and I know sometimes the lyrics are really important. BUT, 
why don't people sometimes just listen to the MUSIC, and not the words..
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/14/90 23:09:14
Message Number  6354

> how important is a belief?
 
  Well, I am all for belief in anything, but I don't like those who f
force it upon others and such... I know that, in laws, we are forced to 
take one over the other, but religion is free, and we have the right to 
choose which religion, or none, that we wan
  What I mean to say is that beief in something is important, but a 
person shouldn't let a belief rule every aspect of their life.
 
  One thing I have noticed about religios people: Those of us who don't
really go for religion, or those of uwho question it, seem to be more
open minded and intelligent than those who make a deal out of telling us
to believe...
 
  
===========

From: JIM DILLOW          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: thing change   
Date & Time: 07/14/90 23:25:38
Message Number  6355

Beliefs last until you change them. To me people take themselfs and 
thier beliefs to be final....not remembering they change, update
and forget! Later.
   Jim
===========

From: XTEVE               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: readme         
Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:10:41
Message Number  6357

Thanks for the explanation.
Sorry 'bout the topic mixup, I'm new here and I try but I'm not yet a 
computergeek of stature.
===========

From: XTEVE               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: NOT SURE       
Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:14:30
Message Number  6358

okee dokee, thats fine about the no-room-for-files thing.  It's not as
easy as making a direct call anyway...
see ya.    -Xteve
===========

From: XTEVE               
To: RAVEN               
Subject: NOT SURE       
Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:17:46
Message Number  6359

Ah man, that's it.  Sorry.
Hey, there's a message for you from me Subj="help" (I think). Check it  
out.  
PS: How about them cheerleaders?
                        - Xteve
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:40:35
Message Number  6360

To your "open mined" friend:
 
OMF> If you do good with good motives, it's from God. If you do good
OMF> with bad motives, it's from Satan.
 
But never does it come from a person's own volition?  Incidentally,
you can follow the "Golden Rule" whether you are a Baptist, Buddhist,
Witch or even (can it truly be?) a furry fan.  You, Dave's open
minded friend, are thinking from entirely too Christian a viewpoint.
This is not an insult, just an observation -- and an explanation of
why quoting Bible verses will never serve to convince a skeptic of your
religion's Truth.  If they don't accept the Bible as the Word of God,
then they're not going to be convinced to accept it as such based on
its word alone.  Does this make sense to you?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:49:18
Message Number  6361

We've had to do some storyline editing, usually after Spellwind posted.
Sigh.  Anyway, any "quests" develop strictly on the volition of the
characters involved.  There are things that are going to happen with my
/own/ characters; a story that's starting to be serialized in a fanzine
called YARF! takes place in another part of Ranea over a timespan of
two months or so before when the storyboard is set at, and the end of
that story overlaps the storyboard in both time and location.  However,
I'm not planning to do anything with the characters I'm running now in
relation to anyone else's characters as of yet... if that happens, it'll
just develop, much like it'd probably happen in a real-life (albeit
fantasy world) situation).
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 00:54:27
Message Number  6362

Actually, I've been writing about that with regards to a current song
by Heart.  I find demeaning songs as least as offensive, if not more so,
than violent songs.  "Hot Blooded" I find difficult to take seriously;
as for Def Leppard, well, you could get offended at "Pour Some Sugar
on Me" but it probably wouldn't be worth the energy.  Considering those
two are generally the worst nowadays (barring wonders like "Lips and
Hips," or at least hoping they are flukes and not omens) in heavy metal/
hard rock, things are looking up.  Over the last decade or so, the
songs have gradually moved away from the size of the lead singer's dick
and towards usually coherent, and sometimes even thoughtful, songs about
not just relationships but political & social concerns.  You'll find a
lot of fluffy love/lust songs in hard rock and metal just like you will
in "pop" and rap music, but you're not likely to find Janet Jackson or
M.C. Hammer penning equivalents to Don Henley's "Heart of the Matter" or
Metallica's "One."
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Stuporbrain!   
Date & Time: 07/15/90 01:03:22
Message Number  6363

It probably COULDN'T talk to the NorthStar even if you had it.  Turtle's
away for the weekend (I hope you didn't literally leave the Apple stuff
on his doorstep today, or else it's pretty much dead by now with the
rains) and I can't attempt to put anything on an Intertec disk format
without it -- a copy of VDE (text editor) and IMP, a usable if not
particularly thrilling terminal program, would be real nice.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: NAME                
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 01:22:10
Message Number  6364

> Purgatory, WHERE in the Bible does it say ANYTHING about purgatory?
  
Hey, it doesn't have to be in the Bible to be codified by Christian
religions.  The good book doesn't make a mention of the Trinity
(God in Three Persons), but it's still a tenet of most Christian
faiths.
===========

From: THRUD               
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 07:52:57
Message Number  6365

I grok what you're saying. One of my greatest regrets is that I shall 
never meet Lori and Lauralie <sp>. When I was 14 (many moons ago) I
spent the entire summer mowing lawns in the morning and hanging in
the St.Pete Public Library sci-fi section in the afternoon. That's
were I found my name, too.
===========

From: THRUD               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: blazing eyes...
Date & Time: 07/15/90 08:06:54
Message Number  6366

You stole my next post! Now if i proceed to beat the reigning
champion senseless and abduct the fair maiden everybody will
think I'm a plagerist. Jeez, now I have to come up with an origianl
thought..."The polar bear ate the reigning champion..."
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:02:45
Message Number  6367

Now *that* a new one I hadn't heard.  My my, interesting folks those 
Popes.  In todays world maybe its a little tougher to actually pull off
the "holier than thou" so we don't see as much. I knew that they had 
sanctioned assasinations but not created an organization to carry them 
out.  What was it called?  There are other interesting things around tha
time frame like mistresses of vatican officials, running "call girls"
in and out, graft, bribery etc etc.  Just fun luvin Italians!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: NAME                
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:11:47
Message Number  6368

Again - Catholicism is a wj=hole different ballgame.  There are many
many things that hard-core Catholics believe that stirred the Protestant
movement to begin with.  Another that really stirs a lot of people is
the doctrine that infants must be baptised to atone for "original sin"
otherwise they teach * That infant will go to hell !!!!!!  Now this
is kinda personal for me 'cause a well-meaning (but still a stupid
insensitive clod) priest told my mother this shit after my infant
brother died of a heart defect 2 weeks after he was born.  She knows
that this is not true but still it upset her very much.
    You have to also understand that the Catholic religion, because of
it's glaring n0n-adherance to the Bible, has practised a policy of
repression throughout the centuries.  It used to be punishable by DEATH
to own a Bible...
                                       JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:18:02
Message Number  6369

Bravo!  I was hoping that someone would say that!  As a musician type
I usually DO listen to the music and the lyrics sometimes get in the
way.  People think I'm weird because I can't id a tune by the lyrics,
but rather the tune itself.  I used to really enjoy AC/DC until someone
pointed out the lyrics - ah hell - why'd they have to go and do that?
I still listen to it but (and it sound silly even to me) but now I feel
vaguely uncomfortable knowing the lyrics are there and the stuff they
advocate is against what I believ 
                                           JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:33:59
Message Number  6370

Yeah - sometimes I really wish I could *know* just how much "love songs"
have contributed to the rise of divorce as people are filled with
pure romanticised trash about "luv".  John Cougar Mellencamp has always
been a favorite for meaningful songs as also Simon & Garfunkel.  Tracy
Chapman is vastly overrated (but I DO like her tunes) as far as social
awareness.  Actually I consider Henley's "Heart of the Matter" to be
a giant cliche' from one end to the other.  I listened to it several
times to make sure it wasn't a joke!  As far as songs like Metallica's
"One" and stuff like White Lions's (umm what was that tune about the
children?) anyway I look at is as a passing fad.  Metal has been under
so much criticism for lack of finesse' (they call it Thrash y'understand
that now we see many groups throwing in a token acoustic piece just to
prove they can.  How silly.... "look ma - no pickups!".  Metal music
has a place in the world and sex will continue to be a driving force
behind it - I know many rock-n-roll wannabes that will flat out tell
you that "Getting the girls" is a big factor in being a rock-n-roller.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THRUD               
Subject: blazing eyes...
Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:45:11
Message Number  6371

You could always have it take a shit on the bar - therby disproving
the ancient axiom about a forest being necessary...
 
                          helpful JonBoy
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/15/90 11:52:57
Message Number  6372

That's a very black-and-white approach to "the way heavy metal works."
Metallica has never, to the best of my knowledge, recorded any song that
could be considered a love/lust song.  Social consciousness is not a
passing fad in music, even popular music; when you look at the the most
popular artists of the '80s, most of them at least had some socially
aware songs, even, yes, Michael Jackson -- and some of the biggest acts
were U2 and Bruce Springsteen, hardly icons of the "Boom I've Got Your
Girlfriend" audience.  Hard rock/metal is not all lyrically vapid, and
for the most part, it's more intelligent than pop counterparts.  Hell,
even the ones that ARE love songs, like Kiss's "Forever," are often
more interesting than top pop bop schlop.
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: JONBOY              
Subject: computers      
Date & Time: 07/15/90 13:36:02
Message Number  6374

Cool!  Anything to /anything/!?  How about -- Err, an Atari 2600 game
to run on a PDP 11?  hehehehe... But seriously, If I gave you some 
MACPAINT pictures, could you convert them over to GIF fo me?
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 13:41:13
Message Number  6376

> Janet Jackson
 
Yee Ghods!  He finally used someone /besides/ Paula Abdul for an example
of "POP" musicians -- But he always point out women, I think there is so
me sort of discression going on here!  :)
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/15/90 13:44:22
Message Number  6377

> Michael Jackson
 
Okay, I take the last statement back, I guess we /coul/ consider him 
male!  :)
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: HD             
Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:11:20
Message Number  6378

Yea, I tried the bad card in the real Apple and no go.  Oh well, at
least the BBS is up and nothing I need right at this moment is blown
up and smoking.  I'll just daisy chain the two drives together...
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:24:38
Message Number  6379

If you look in your TV Guide, it's listed under "Moody Science."  I've
found it on at 4 a.m., 5 p.m., and all times inbetween.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Calling...     
Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:25:40
Message Number  6380

Thanks for the help.  Doesn't matter now.  One computer (the Friggin'
Ace 1000) will only recognize the hard disk half the time.  The rest
of the time I get stuff like "path not found," and when running the BBS
"bad drive specifer," which means it can't find the disk.  Now I'm
just running the BBS off the Apple....
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 07/15/90 14:28:35
Message Number  6381

Thanks...I'll be stopping by Turtle's one of these days.  Maybe Turtle
will be nice and fix Zot's power supply.  The plug just needs to be
fixed on it.  Zot's Apple //c got dropped...
===========

From: ETC...              
To: ALL                 
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/15/90 15:46:08
Message Number  6382

Im wodering who all here believes we should have manditory recycling 
programs...
===========

From: NAME                
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/15/90 16:17:36
Message Number  6383

D> ...if they don't accept the bilble as the word of God...
  
I don't care if they do or not.  The only thing I was worried about was
that you guys are all quoting the bilble out of context.  It distorts
what is meant.
===========

From: NAME                
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Catholicism    
Date & Time: 07/15/90 16:29:41
Message Number  6384

I am glad you go my point, that was, the misrepresentation of God's 
word.  I will try my best not to do this, but I wold like to keep 
sharing my point of view. 
I agree with you that the Catholics don't even READ the bible; after all
they're taught the priest is the only one that can interpret it 
correctly.  This is the first step toward occultism, that is, to never 
question authority.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 18:33:33
Message Number  6385

The only male pop stars I can think of are George Michael and New Kidss
on the Block.  I don't dislike George, although I'm not especially fond
of him, and the less said about the NKOTB marketing machine the better.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: NAME                
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/15/90 18:35:35
Message Number  6386

Different part of the Bible have continually been used throughout the
ages to support two different sides of arguments with no middle ground,
such as abortion or creationism-vs.-evolution.
    And furthermore, very few people on here have actually been quoting
the Bible per se; we have been talking about the overall way it has been
used throughout history.  If the way Christians interpret the Bible
differs from group to group, it is neither the non-Christians' fault nor
the Bible's (or its writers').  If a group says they believe one way but
consistently live as if they do not, what is an impartial observer to
decide they /truly/ believe -- what they profess, or what they actually
do?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: NAME                
Subject: Catholicism    
Date & Time: 07/15/90 18:39:51
Message Number  6387

A lot of Catholics do read the Bible.  A lot of non-Catholics are also
blindly led by sheep, either in other Christian denominations, other
religions or political movements.
    I've noticed Catholic-bashing is quite fashionable among Christians
who don't follow that denomination, and there are certainly things in
the Catholic belief system that other Christians could find
questionable.  There is also a tendency to blow the perceived negatives
of Catholicism far out of proportion, and further, to respond to most
challenges against Christianity's past actions by saying, "Yes, but
that was the Catholics."
    Look around Christianity.  All denominations have their good points
and bad points.  Many of the negatives I perceive in Christian actions
originate in Southern Baptist churches just as often, if not more so,
than Catholic ones.  The argument, "Well, at least we didn't start the
Inquisition" isn't a terribly good one for convincing an atheist to
become a Protestant.  He'll probably wonder why these groups that all
claim to follow the same God and to know the One Truth <tm> spend as
much time bashing each other as they do bashing non-Christians and 
telling their followers what in secular society is Good and Evil,
and how anyone coming strictly from outside the Christian tradition can
truly believe that /any/ of them are following a "God of Love."
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Not SOMETHING  
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:13:42
Message Number  6389

>...Turtle is no more anal retentive than Bart...
 
...and in fact is considerably less so, except when it comes to English
grammar. Bart, for example, carefully places 3.5" disks in order, in
little plastic sleeves, in the box; Turtle labels them with useless
names and then loses them. Turtle and Bart have both been accused of
having conservative views of magazine layout, though...utter slander!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: computers      
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:16:10
Message Number  6390

Hey, I'm back from Ft. Myers. Feel free to drop by sometime so we can
do the scan thing in the Mac-lab place during the evening time.
I'm not really planning to travel anywhere this week, although I
didn't really plan to go to Ft. Lauderdale /last/ week so I guess
we know what that's worth.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:20:02
Message Number  6391

>Why, GOD decides what is moral or not...
 
Not always. Every person carries with him his own set of beliefs that
define what is or is not immoral (even people who claim not to). That
doesn't mean that there is any code of morality that is universal or
applies equally to everyone, though; it only becomes a problem when
someone says "What you are doing [what you are listening, what you are
watching, what you are saying, etc, etc, etc] is immoral, and if you
don't stop I will force you to [torture you, kill you, etc, etc]."
The only moral value that seems to be universal is that it is not
immoral to murder people who disagree with your morality.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:24:07
Message Number  6392

I think the Southern Baptists will be dealing with the fallout from
the Scopes Monkey Trial for more than 700 years, frankly; as a rule,
Catholicism is about 700 years behind reality, and Fundamentalists
are about 200 years behind Catholics. (Look at the number of Fundament-
alists who /still/ try to force school districts to preach--er, teach--
the absurdity of "creation science"!) I never fail to be astounded how
quickly people will disbelieve any evidence that disagrees with their
own little worldview, even if the evidence is right before their eyes.
Aristotle taught that a heavy object will fall faster than a light
object, a belief which persisted for thousands of years despite tens of
thousands of demonstrations that it isn't true.
 
Of course, Aristotle also taught that the brain exists merely to cool
the blood and is not involved in the process of thinking--something
which is only true of some people.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:32:05
Message Number  6393

I've agreed with you twice so far on this message chain...that's
really disturbing, you know? Christians are generally even more annoying
than conservatives; put "Christian" and "conservative" together, and
you get Jessee Helmes.
 
(Running off into the distance, hands over head; diving into bomb
shelter...)
 
(c) 1990 Anarchy Now, Inc. Disclamer: The message above contains
hyperbole and is stated with tongue in cheek; any offense it may
cause, to Christians, conservatives, or Jessee Helmes, is probably
deserved. On the other hand, there does seem to be a grain of truth
lurking hideously in there somewhere.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:37:34
Message Number  6394

[Actually, this is to the Specialist's unnamed friend]
 
If one defines "success" as "peace, love, and joy"; and one defines
the "Kingdom of God" as "peace, love, and joy," it still doesn't
follow that all success comes from the kingdom of God. A correlary
to that belief would be that people who don't believe in the
Christian god, or in any sort of god at all, would not be capable
of finding peace, love, and joy; this is demonstrably not true. The
only two people I have ever met in my life who I can honestly say are
truly, deeply happy are not Christians; I have, however, met a large
number of faithful, loyal, devout, and miserable Christians. Faith in
God is neither necessary to nor sufficient for peace, love, and joy.
 
Saying that all good works come from God would likewise seem to say that
someone who does not believe in God cannot either be a good person or
perform good works, which is also not true. Just as there are Christians
who are selfish, mean-spirited, vicious, and inconsiderate, there are
atheists and non-Christian theists who are kind, compassionate, caring,
and loving people. Would your friend consider that a contradiction?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Yup            
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:49:23
Message Number  6396

Hey, that isn't such a bad idea! Maybe I can find somewhere to get
some of these old 'pooters stuffed and mounted on wood plaques so I can
hang 'em up over the hearth..."That North Star Horizon over there was
one tough critter. Tracked the blamed thing for three weeks before I
cornered it in this blind canyon..."
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: -A/R-          
Date & Time: 07/15/90 20:51:58
Message Number  6397

I see a visit to Sarasota Electronics in my future...figure this Qubie's
giving me enough weird problems to qualify for a Government grant. It
doesn't seem to get into the spirit of 1200 baud with the proper
enthusiasm, for some reason; it won't talk to a few 1200 bauds, but it
also doesn't seem to have any way to tune the carrier. Oh, well...maybe
it's a technical problem, maybe it's just surrendered to the dark side
of the Carrier...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:09:01
Message Number  6398

I have a TI-99/4A keyboard...it's really a nice keyboard (good feel,
good layout, CONTROL and FUNCTION keys, which is almost as strange as
CONTROL and ALT on the same keyboard), but it isn't anywhere close to
ASCII. It uses some really bizzare matrix encoding that passes the
row and a multiplexed BCD of the column out to the edge of the
keyboard (yep, it's got a decimal-to-BCD encoder IC on the board!)
Pity; I'd like to use it in something.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: computers      
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:13:22
Message Number  6399

>...I have several programs for the IBM that will convert almost any-
>thing to anything...
 
Sometimes you have to be kinda careful with 'em, though. A couple
programs seem to have trouble going from .MAC to .GIF; they
convert it to /something/, all right, but they seem to mess up the
header information so's you can't tell how many lines the resulting
.GIF is. It doesn't matter to a lot of IBM ShowGIF programs 'cause they
get that information from the file itself, but GIF viewers for other
machines can't deal with a GIF whose header is messed up very well.
You end up seeing things like "WINNOW.GIF: File resolution 4096x200,
2 colors." 
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:18:59
Message Number  6400

>If you are not part of the Judeo-Christian environment then the bumper
>sticker obviously does not affect you.
 
Not really. It still makes a statement about non-Christians; it implies
that they are /not/ forgiven. If you don't buy into Christianity, you
probably don't believe it, of course, but it's still kind of obnoxious
to be told "we're both imperfect, but at least I'm forgiven and
you're not, so there." A bumper sticker that says "Soccer players
have leather balls" makes no statement, expressed or implied, about
people who don't play soccer.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: NAME                
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:22:19
Message Number  6401

>...it [the Bible] does talk about when a man dies he will either go
>to heaven or hell, immediately.
 
The Bible does not talk about Hell, particularly as a place where the
condemned go. The closest it gets is saying that the unrighteous
will be cast into a lake of fire after the battle at Armageddon. In
fact, most Fundamentalist sects don't believe in Hell at all; they will
tell you the wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal torment. (The concept of
hell has always given me problems with popular Christianity; I for one
WILL NOT worship a diety who sees the necessity of keeping a private
torture chamber for his mistakes.)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:26:17
Message Number  6402

>...why don't people sometimes listen to the MUSIC, and not the words...
 
Because the music and the words together make the song; you can't listen
to one totally exclusively of the other. Besides, the type of people
who write inane drivel of the type JonBoy was describibg usually aren't
any musical Maestros, either.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:28:08
Message Number  6403

>...we have the right to choose what religion, or none, that we want...
 
That doesn't help much, because what if the religion you choose has as
a central tenant that people who subscribe to other faiths should be
killed, or people who subscribe to other faiths will certainly die
unless you use anmy means at your disposal to convert them? Then a
cornerstone of your faith becomes the belief that others do /not/ have
the right to choose their own religion; so do you have the right to
behave in accordance with yours?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:41:30
Message Number  6404

>Metal has been under so much criticism for lack of finesse'...that now
>we see many groups throwing in a token acoustic piece...
 
That's a REALLY annoying statement...and belief. Metallica, to take the
example you dismissed so lightly, has ALWAYS played acoustic music,
and in fact every member of that particular group has a degree in formal
music theory. "Thrash" metal is a sub-set of heavy-metal music in
general, and it's rather unfair to make sweeping statements like the
one you just made and to judge all of metal by the thrash you hear
pouring out of oversized stereos belonging to young children. You also
didn't address the central point, which is that there is a good deal
of meaningful, interesting, and impressive music being generated by
heavy-metal groups--and not just as a "passing fad" (Dio has performed
heavy metal with the Vienna Symphony Orchestra--when he was with Rainbow
in 1976. Yngwie Malmsteen writes long, elaborate instrumental pieces,
inspired by some of the classical masters he's dedicate a great deal
of time to studying, and it's 1990. Fourteen years is a hell of a long
passing fad.) Yes, the percentage of good heavy metal is very small; the
percentage of good music of ANY kind is very small. The fact that
90% of it is crap doesn't make the 10% that's good any less good.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:51:22
Message Number  6405

>But he always points out women...
 
Would you rather discuss the New Kids on the Block, perhaps? Frankly,
I wouldn't.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ETC...              
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/15/90 21:53:36
Message Number  6406

Count me in on that! Mandatory recycling is about the only thing I can
think of to get some people to recycle, if the program is designed (and
enforced) correctly.
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: orphans        
Date & Time: 07/16/90 06:31:05
Message Number  6408

     No that's not the problem, the problem is when we get more hardware
then I want.  "But we can't have too much" says Turtle.  So we live like
this.  I pretend to have only what I see in the living room and what is
in the utility room. Turtle can tell you what we really have bacause he
goes up in the attic.  I do not.  So you see.  If he can get it in the
apt. before I know it is here then I don't complain.  But when I find 
hardware on my doorstep (i.e. PDP 11 23), yes I get a little upset.
Software I don't usually mind so much, espcially if it is useful.  But
if you would see all the computers and clutter you would understand what
a *GEM* Turtle's girlfriend really is. :)
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: -A/R-          
Date & Time: 07/16/90 08:24:38
Message Number  6410

The Qubie combined with the blasted Migent modem Raven has let me borrow
is a match made in Hell.  I dial up your number and 75% of the time, the
modem just sits there listening to the carrier, and I have to try to
jump back to terminal mode and start slamming RETURN... half of the
time, the modem transmits it anyway (even though it hasn't transmitted a
CONNECT 1200) and PBBS starts, apparently over the modems' objections.
 
Anyway, IMP itself is pretty nice.  Very CP/M (it's a command-driven
terminal program like MODEM7 is), but powerful; it lacks DTERM's or
FastTerm's script capability, but does just about everything else, well,
more elegantly than the other two combined.  It's also the only term
program I've seen that pays attention to 2400 bps modems' return codes;
you can leave it set at 2400 bps, and if you call a 1200 bps board the
terminal will drop down to match it.
 
Incidentally, whoever wrote the Superbrain overlay remapped the command
key from ESCape to the SB's "HERE IS" button.  It's nice to give the
thing a use in life, but I wish he had let me know ahead of time.
 
Another thing interesting.. IMP implements transfers the way JMODEM
thinks it does.  If you start out with 1024-byte blocks, it will keep
track of the # of bad blocks; 4 consecutively, or a ratio of bad to
good over a certain number (which is different for each baud rate),
will make it drop down to 128-byte blocks.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: computers      
Date & Time: 07/16/90 08:31:58
Message Number  6411

> You end up seeing things like "WINNOW.GIF: File resolution 4096x200,
> 2 colors."
 
Now, now.  It was actually 1063x200, I believe....
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:36:35
Message Number  6415

George Michael has one good point -- His CD has some of the most amazing
Surround Sound effects I have ever heard on a CD....
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:43:33
Message Number  6416

But New Kids On The Block are /much/ worse than any of the POP women 
singers out today -- BTW -- What do you and Donthen think of POP songers
like Tina Turner?
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:44:35
Message Number  6417

Gee, mandatory recycling....Can we say Marxist?  Communist, maybe?
While we're at it, let's ban RAP and HEAVY METAL music because it is
a disgrace to our contry -- And, U know, those Chineese people smell 
funny -- Let's gas 'em along with the Blacks, because the Black people
are the cause of our Drug problem, you know....Then we'll have a perfect
country -- U know, le's get a big army an "help" the other countries
in the world be perfect just like us....
 
 
              Sound familiar?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/16/90 18:57:40
Message Number  6418

hat?  My question was not "could you understand HEART's lyrics" but
I was incredulous that you could actually understand Heavy Metal lyrics.
 And the song does not glamorize one nighstands, it is about this chick 
who's husband can't give her a baby!  Listen more closely next time.
Of course, you do have a point about reaching for rhymes...I think that
the song reaches, Period.  Not as good as thier bad animals album.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Self-control   
Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:02:45
Message Number  6419

About controling (poeplesown feelings
(Lighting glitch)  About controlling (peoples own feelings...
Good point.  And I think another nasty word enters in here...censorship.
One man's opion...Jim Swaggarts...can cause censorship.  Ifhe thinks
that "his people" shouldn't support something or nay, should "down"
it, then look out...you got the Vocal Minority on your ass.
  
(Man, I hate that lousy hypocryte!)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Moral/Immoral/A
Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:08:35
Message Number  6420

Moral or not moral is determined by public opinion.  If more people
think that something is moral than not, then it becomes moral.  If you
do something which societ considers immoral (like molestation) and it
is also against the law, hang on! 
  Let's take something like homosexuality.  Now, you and I (and every
body else) think that it's perverse.  But, since there are a lot of
homos out there, and a lot of people whare too sick to know what's 
normal and what a't and a lot of politicians who are wimps, it's 
legal.  Of course, this proves my point that jsut because it's legal, 
doesn't mean that it's moral.  
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:17:17
Message Number  6421

Lemme get this straight...you think that it'samoral for a woman to 
leave one lover to boff another guy, but you condone homosexuality? 
What is the difference? 
D...whether she was being amoral or simply subscribes to a belief system
D>that considers using both strangers and mates as sexual playthings
D>perfectly fine.  No, I don't think so.
  
Now what was your point? What is the difference between multiple lovers
for a woman or for a man?  So wat?  If she didn't, she'd be monogamous,
right?  She'd be marrie (presumably to a man).  But homosexuals do the
same thing...multiple lovers...(well they used to...hehehehe.)  But 
I still ask you...what's the difference between a hetro man/woman and
a Homo man/woman as far as multiple lovers (strangers or friends?)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:27:54
Message Number  6422

JB>Confusing assholes like Swaggert with Christians.
  
What's the difference?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:29:59
Message Number  6423

JB> We eat Wings (buffalo that is)
 
Ah, something we agree on!  TNT-wet...Ice tea...Fries...Yowza!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:41:16
Message Number  6424

JB>Why would another person's self-percieved superiority get under your
JB>skin?
 Because they are NOT!  And they think that thier religion makes them 
that way!  And it does nNOT!
JB>Same kind of useless bitchin about how rich people "waste" thier 
JB>money...i.e. you are inserting yourself into a situation that isn't 
JB>even applicable.  If you are not part of the Judeo-Christian 
JB>environment then the bumper sticker obviously does not affect you.
 This whole thread has been "useless bitchin"!  And that bumper sticker
affects everyone who sees it, bub.  Same as Shit Happens.  But, those
freaks caused pressure and now I can't have that bumper sticker anymore.
So, I could care less how another bumper sticker might make them react.
I wish we could censor them, too. 
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 19:53:36
Message Number  6425

B>One thing I have really noticed about religious people; those of us 
B>who don't really go for religion, or those fo us who question it, 
B>seem to be more open minded and intelligent than those who make a
B>deal out of telling us to believe...
  
WHew!  Kinda superior there, don'tcha think?  I wouldn't say more 
intelligent, but open minded, yes...but that's because religion sets
certain boundaries about what you can think on certain things...like 
witchcraft, or the supernatural. Religion explains these things as
evil (satan's work).  Intelligent?  I dunno...maybe you are stereo-
typing your basic hardworking southern hick, who usually are brought
up with some sort of religion.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:03:19
Message Number  6426

A>Hey, if doesn't have to be in the Bible to be codified by Christian
A>religions.
  
So, like, what are you saying?  That the bible has nothing to do with
Christian religion?  That Catholic preiests just make up stuff out of 
the blue?  
  
"Hmmm...purgatory...yeah, that's it!  and, and, you have to PRAY to
get them out!  Yeah, yeah, that's the ticket!  No...no, *I* have to 
pray for you, Yeah!  Of course, this will cost you a minimal donation,
but, I can't garantee that they will get out the first prayer, I 
MIGHT have to pray, ah, twice...or maybe three times, who knows? 
...yeah, that's the ticket, yeah...."
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: THRUD               
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:09:41
Message Number  6427

Thrud?  From where did you get your handle?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Pop            
Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:19:33
Message Number  6428

D>...George Michael...
  Broke up with his boyfriend, causing the dissolution of WHAM!
D>...New Kids on the Block
  Who are probably more interested in each other than any of the
MIllions of teeny boppers who like them...
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Catholicism    
Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:28:26
Message Number  6429

I don't want to quote the whole message, but wow, that was really
elegant and elloquent!  It was quite some reading, but well worth it.
Again, I must simply say, well said.  Of course, I'm sure that 
NAME will have something to say....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:44:52
Message Number  6430

T>...I for one WILL NOT worship a diety who sees the necessity of 
T>keeping a private torture chamber for his mistakes...
  
Ah, well spoken...or a diety who is petulant, either. 
===========

From: THRUD               
To: NAME                
Subject: Catholicism    
Date & Time: 07/16/90 20:58:41
Message Number  6431

Jeez, I don't want to have to defend Catholocism - but you're making 
statements and assumptions that just aren't valid. Saying Catholics 
don't read the Bible or don't think for themselves is like saying
all blacks (oops, African-Americans) like watermelon and all Jews
are rich - these are narrow, unthinking pre-judgements of vast numbers
of people. 
  Didja ever notice that no matter how much you disagree with
a family member, or religion or whatever, when an outsider attacks
ya just have to defend your own? Strang species we belong to.
===========

From: THRUD               
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: handle         
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:12:30
Message Number  6432

I found my handle in the mythology section of the St. Pete Public 
Library. When I was 14-16 I spent days in there reading whole shelves.
Sci Fi, war, mythology, whatever. Anyhow, I took tons of confusing
notes for some unknown reason - just whatever struck me as interesting.
Well, Vafthrudner was a Nordic frost giant that asked everyone who
tried to cross his land a question - if they got it right they passed,
if wrong they died by the club. The only exception was Odin, who got
the question wrong, but wasn't so easy to kill. So i used Vafthrudner 
as  a CB handle (way back in 76) for about 5 minutes - nobody could
get it right, so I shortened  it to THRUD. Also my gramps was from
Denmark. Now aren't you sorry you asked?
===========

From: THRUD               
To: ANGEL               
Subject: nice bear      
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:22:53
Message Number  6433

  The Norseman was pleased to hear Angel speak so glowingly of
her ship. This was an odd place indeed, but at least there was one
soul who shared his love of the sea and skye - well, two, counting
Gjolp. Who, incidently, had taken to examining her surroundings. The 
huge bear went from one person to the next in the bar - giving out a
little whimper when she caught Turtle's scent. At last she stopped at 
the fox's foot - well, actually even on all fours she was chest hish
 er, chest high to the fox - and emitted a low growl. She looked at
Vafthrudner as if for permission......
  "No Gjolp....come here girl." The titan pointed at the floor near
his feet. Turning back to Angel he said "Her families name is Ursa
Maritmus you know - she's born to the sea."
  Just then the food arrived - it didn't look much like reindeer, but
it was burnt on the outside and raw inside - cooked perfectly. The 
massive Dane tore off a chunk for himself and gave the remainder to 
the polar bear, who seemed quite pleased with it.
  "So, young lady, what do you propose to do with your fine ship? 
She's not just a pretty toy, is she? Have you ever sailed the North
Sea......or......Skagerrak?"
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:36:35
Message Number  6434

Read it again - I was referring to the acoustic number. To clarify -
a lot of groups feel like the soulfull acoustic number is a gotta have
on their albumn - like the wailing lead solos that you hear in "normal"
rock-n-roll. Personally I thing that many of the solos should be left
out as they are not there as a support for the tune but rather a 
showcase for the guitar hero to show us how fast he can burn off a 
scale (* yawn *).  The "socially meaningful" acoustic number is 
approaching this point also.  Face it - most rock-n-roll bands 
are groupies themselves - look how many wanna-bes Van Halen and
Led Zepplin spawned.  This is why I call it a fad.  There are
genuine tunes out there (U2) that are really the product of a 
social consiousness but most are simply a train of brown-nosers.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: computers      
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:42:20
Message Number  6435

yes - no problem.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:43:42
Message Number  6436

Well - I don't HAVE a TV because I personally believe them to be the
devils tool! (heheheheheh)  Actually - I just hate them and have much
better things to do with my time than park in front of a TV yech!
The best thing that ever happened to the TV was VCR's.  At least you
can rent a decent movie.  If I EVER buy another TV (why when I can
get an 85 megger for the same price or half of a Fender Strat?) it
will be at the same time I get a VCR.
 
                                A Civilized JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Calling...     
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:47:07
Message Number  6437

Did you ever patch ProDOS for the Franklin?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:48:41
Message Number  6438

Hey - they're successful and rich & they give the zit-rockers something
to spend their money on and get their hormones all fired up.  They
have A PLACE IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS (booming voice dubbed in with
thunder).
                                           JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:51:01
Message Number  6439

That's mainifest bullshit!  Everyone in the world would be a pitiful
hypocrite if that is truly the way the cards fall.  #1 what is the
definition of "living a belief"?  Should you dedicate your life &
funds in the quest for a free south Africa since you made a stand on
your board that the adjective "sand-nigger" offended you more than
anything else?  Would you be living a lie since you would not be willing
to go that far?
Truth is we are quite capable of perceiving high moral standards but 
still acknowledging that we can fall short of the IDEALS.  Let's not
get black and white here but rather leave room for being human.
 
                                          JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Catholicism    
Date & Time: 07/16/90 21:56:05
Message Number  6440

Typically I find that "outsiders" do a far better of job of laying
the "infighting" rap on Christian denominations.  Truth is they 
agree on the most of the high points and it is trivial stuff that
actually comprise the various schisms that you percieve as Christianity.
By definitian a Christian is one who believes in Jesus the Christ as 
the risen Son of God who died for mankinds cumulative sins.  No more
no less.  When you get into the "mechanics" of actually being a 
Christian then you have various beliefs as people try to make sense of
the various writings.  The Church has always been defined as the
corporate body of belivers and has not a thing to do with a building or
any group in particular.  The groups that Christians traditionally
do battle with are a) non-believers that feel theirs is the One True
Way (tm) and Shame on Christians for being such back-water louts that
they actually think that they are entitled to their beliefs when Right
Thinkers can see the world evolved as a cosmic crap game and B) those
people that feel they have a strangle hold on the kingdom of heaven and
they hold the only key (fringe groups like the ones that dug in in
Arizona).  Most Christian groups have many dealings with one another 
at both the community and national levels and have multi-denominational
meetings.
                                       JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:07:23
Message Number  6441

Actually recent studies into weak forces show that indeed heavier
objects fall faster than lighter ones.  The Greeks also had a crude
atomic theory.
                                       JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:09:45
Message Number  6442

Ok - enuf of THAT stuff too.  Has it ever occurred to anyone that there
are TWO explanations for this behavior - neither of which involves
a stupid and misrepresented belief that God is the source of all good?
1) Psychologists have a saying that there is NO such thing as altruism
and that all "good" or selfless acts can be attributed to a desire
to forward the interests of the "altrusistic" person.  Could it be that 
the persons are simply participating in a "Holier than thou" contest
whereby the "winner" is the most percieved holyman?  Hmmmm?
2) Since the "Born Again" Christian is a "new creature" shaped by the
Holy Spirit - can he not in all honesty within the framewortk of his
beliefs say that because of hios relationship with God and because
of God's influence in his life that the good works are possible and 
thus give credit where he honestly believes it is due?
Let's see a little less mindless slamminmg and a little more thought...
 
	                                  Iconoclastic Jonboy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Yup            
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:17:15
Message Number  6443

Really!  A Horizon - my Advantage almost had the network server that
went along with it but some damned Iranian (just a description -
no racial slur intended) bought it for parts!!!!!  I BEGGED him to let
me trade him a couple of other systems that had "better parts" so I 
could have a networked MP/M system with 3 machines - sighhhh.. T'wasn't
to be....  I really HATE auctions!!!  You meet the biggest jerks!
 
                                     JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:20:48
Message Number  6444

There's a million articles to interface it to a Sinclair/Timex
doorwedge-posing-as-a-computer.  Works good!
 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: computers      
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:22:07
Message Number  6445

Righto!  I have a bazillion combinations of graphics conversions
that I use with each other _ I usually go from PCX or TIFF to 
GIF and MAC to one of those.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:23:51
Message Number  6446

I was referring to the "emotional content" of the folks that would
be morally offended by the sexual innuendo.  IE a giant stereotype
of the "typical" Christian family out for a Sunday drive.
Speaking of perceptions - then what about bumper stickers that proclaim:
"Of I drive like I own the road - I do!"
"If you don't like the way I drive call this number 1-800-EAT-SHIT
etc etc?  Isn't that a rather rude and self centered group of 
statements that imply you have NO rights as far as they are concerned
and your comfort and safety on the roads is of secondary importance to
their supreme indifference?  
Of course I don't let them bother me! And letting a Christian bumper
sticker bother you is an indication that you are somehow (to use
shrink jargon) sensitized to these type of messages - kinda like the
mythical red flag.  This would put the "problem" in your backyard.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:31:31
Message Number  6447

Kind of like a central tenet that since you don't smoke and it has 
been proved in some study that smoking is dangerous and you 
belong to a religious group known as nonsmoker fanaticus then it is
your sacred duty to deprive others of the right to such a nasty 
habit in all public places?
Point is - such behavior isn't restricted to RELIGION - I prefer to
believe instead that everyone has the latent capability to be a
1st class ASSHOLE.
 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:36:01
Message Number  6448

Metallica DOES play good music and I was using THEM as the counterpoint
to those that produce the token piece I was referring to - maybe it
came out wrong - I can't find my tape (now I'm mad!) so I can't remember
the name of that tune that most everyone knows.  I will disagree with 
you about Dio - gothic pretentious awful wailing stuff the last one
(something about the wolves) I heard had a very talented guitarist that
was a newcomer and caught my attention but not enough.  Malmsteen
has been described even by his admiring peers as "Mr Bach Rock" for
the heavy classical influences.  However - why all at Mach 3 and
climbing?  Sad to say that a lot of his stuff is good but I don't feel
very thoughtful.  I find myself more often listening to New Age
simply because there I can hear something that while maybe not new -
it is fresh.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: orphans        
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:42:26
Message Number  6449

Ahh buhleaves Brethren!!! Amen this woman is RIGHTEOUS and that 
heathen computerphile needs to change his ways!!!  Repent before
the attic falls down from the combined weight of dinosaur computers
and the secret leak in the roof!  Repent!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:47:17
Message Number  6450

Careful or I'll add yer name to the end and AGREE.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:48:48
Message Number  6451

Wrong Buckwheat - the "freaks" that got those stickers banned were
the mental midgets that figured if they could get away with "Shit 
happens" then they could get away with "Have a nice Fucking Day ASSHOLE"
(yes I saw one of those).  They only have theirself to blame because as 
I believ YOU pointed out - when the majority says its immoral - 
they can make it stick.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:52:01
Message Number  6452

And you , sir, are stereotyping southern with hick.  Ignorance knows
no bounds as I am sure you are aware..
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 22:53:37
Message Number  6453

Hey - yer petulant and ain't even close to diety status...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:44:04
Message Number  6455

I try not to think about Tina Turner at all, whenever possible.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:44:48
Message Number  6456

>Sound familiar?
 
Yeah, it's kinda the same reasoning the NRA uses when it says if we
enforce a mandatory waiting period before you buy a gun, then by next
Tuesday the tanks will be rolling down Tamiami Trail.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Moral/Immoral/A
Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:51:34
Message Number  6457

>Moral or immoral is determined by society's opinion.
 
No, I'm sorry, that simply doesn't work as a definition of "moral."
Social opinion will determine what is socially acceptable, not what
is "moral;" it would be difficult to support the premiss that
the white minority regime in South Africa or the extermination of Jews
in the Third Reich is "moral," regardless of the fact that public
opinion supported both activities. You also seem to be pretty convinced
that homosexuality (and anyone who's sick enough to believe that people'
private sexual practices are their own business, presumably including
myself) is immoral; if you were to find suddenly that a majority of
the public disagreed with you, would it suddenly become moral? By saying
that the sole determining factor in morality is public acceptance, that'
exactly what you would have to say.
 
Incidentally, why /do/ you feel homosexuality is immoral, anyway?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/16/90 23:56:30
Message Number  6458

>What's the difference between a hetero man/woman and a Homo [sic] man/
>woman as far as multiple lovers (strangers or friends?)
 
None. Do you believe that there are no monogamous homosexual relation-
ships? If so, perhaps you should look past trite stereotypes before you
try to hold /any/ opinion on the subject, pro or con. Homos (what a...
quaint word!) can be faithful to one another too, shocking as that may
be to discover, hmm?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 00:02:04
Message Number  6459

SPECIALIST: Whew! Kinda superior there, doncha think?
---
SPECIALIST: Homos are...perverse.
 
Whew! Kinda superior there, doncha think?
 
I wouldn't necessarily say that people who are not particulalry relig-
ious are inherently more open-minded about people who are; they are
simply open-minded about different things. Extreme Fundamentalists as
a group do seem to be more narrow-minded as a whole than their less
enlightened brethren, but an absence of faith does not imply an open
mind--and vice versa. I can think of some relatively irreverent people
who could use a broader outlook...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Frustration... 
Date & Time: 07/17/90 00:10:01
Message Number  6460

>Ah, well spoken.
 
Dammit, stop agreeing with me! This is getting TOTALLY out of hand.
Ummmm...Gun control! Gun control!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Catholicism    
Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:11:15
Message Number  6461

I dunno...I have a large quantity of propaganda from a large number of
Christian sects (from the Assemblies of God to the Southern Baptists,
neither of which is terribly "cultish") that claim Roman Catholicism is
anything from an innocent pawn of the Devil's to the embodiment of
Satan's church on Earth. These people are Christian, yes, but the bit
about "Christian brotherhood" seems to have eluded them. In general, it
seems as though fairly trivial differences in belief will cause more
problems between groups than will profound differences; you don't see
Muslims and Shintoists going at one another with the same enthusiasm
as Shi'ites and Sunnis, and conservative Fundamentalists seem to hate
Catholics with a ferver that surpasses their hatred of, say, Buddhists.
That sort of behavior isn't conducive to convincing an objective ob-
server that Christianity is The Truth; and it does kind of make one
wonder why if this is in fact the living church of an omnipotent god
it doesn't hang together any better than all the other religions
wandering around together. It is the religion of the one true living
god, and that one true living god can't even keep his own house in
order, neh? Not an impressive edifice.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:18:35
Message Number  6462

Grr. Allow me to clarify: Aristotle taught that a heavy object falls
with a speed directly related to its mass, so a 6-gram weight would
drop six times as quickly as a one-gram weight. He also taught that
women have fewer teeth than men, but somehow never quite got around to
counting 'em.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:27:25
Message Number  6463

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I'm sorry, but there are in fact people who believe,
quite literally, that no man acting on his own can ever do anything
good, period; /all/ goodness comes from god. It is one thing to
attribute your own actions to the Holy Spirit working through you; it's
quite another to gaze heavenward and say "Thank you, Lord" when someone
yanks you from the path of a speeding car, and then arrogantly tell the
person who's just saved your ass "What do you mean, thank /you?/ That
wasn't your action, it was God working through you!" (NB: This is an
actual case history, not a hypothetical example.) The "god is
responsible for all good" mentality diminishes everyone to the level
of a helpless automaton that can't do anything right, ever, without
the direct and immediate control of god. That's an annoyingly
arrogant attitude that quite simply sets my teeth on edge.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Yup            
Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:32:33
Message Number  6464

Funny thing about the Horizon...I just ran into someone on a local BBS
who left me E-mail saying he'd seen a message of mine about the Horizon
on the Newtowne Centre Z-Node (a dedicated Z-System support board)
and that he had two of 'em running...one of 'em running Z-System, and
the other running a weird MP/M hack with five terminals. Mine's up in
the attic collecting dust...I can't find a CP/M boot disk (and
can't get HorizonDOS to do anything useful)...what I wouldn't give for a
CP/M boot disk for it. 'Course, it /would/ have to be on a hard-
sectored disk...I know, I'm picky...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Bumper annoyanc
Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:37:28
Message Number  6465

>Isn't that a rather rude and self centered group of statements
>that imply you have NO rights as far as they are concerned and your
>comfort and safety on the roads is of secondary importance to their
>supreme indifference?
 
Yes. And you're right...self-righteousness is a particular "button" of
mine. I tend to see self-righteous individuals as "those hysterical
fanatics who burn books and scream at people who wear T-back bikinis
in public, and who'd gladly exterminate all the vermin who don't
see the light of their moral superiority if they had even half a
chance." Hearing about how Mrs. Rose Fillmore of Kentucky successfully
banned "Catcher in the Rye" and "Charlotte's Web" from her local
library because they teach the way of Satan and corrupt the children
causes me to see red, so I kinda get carried away whenever I see
/anyone/ tell me "You know, I'm a Christian so I'm better than you."
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Rock-ola       
Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:47:26
Message Number  6466

The only Dio you've heard is his latest album? Pity...I'm a Dio
fan, and even I'd have to agree that "Lock Up the Wolves" is far from
being the best album to ever hit the record stores...in fact, most of
Dio's solo stuff with the exception of his first two albums has been
not quite the pinnacle of human artistic achievement--and even the first
two albums have a few tracks that could gag a goat. You want to hear 
what the man is actually CAPABLE of, though, check out some of his stuff
with Black Sabbath (what little there is of it--he wasn't there very
long) and Rainbow. On a different note, what sort of New Age (God I
hate that name) do you listen to? I was hooked for a while on Tangerine
Dream and Shadowfax (the latter being somewhere between New Age and jazz
depending on who you ask)...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really Immoral 
Date & Time: 07/17/90 01:54:16
Message Number  6467

>They only have theirself to blame...
 
Censorship is ALWAYS immoral, no matter how justifiable it may seem
to ANYONE. The mental midgets who got the stickers banned really seem to
believe that a child who sees naughty-naughties on someone's bumper
is gonna grow up to be a rapist and child molestor, or worse yet stop
going to Sunday school--NUTS! Banning the stickers hasn't accomplished
any worthwhile goals or saved our society from being overrun by evil
heathens bent on ravaging everything America stands for, but it has
curtailed people's freedom of expression for no particular reason--
and that's wrong no matter which way you cut it.
===========

From: GEORGE WILLIAMS     
To: THRUD               
Subject: nice bear      
Date & Time: 07/17/90 02:19:23
Message Number  6468

But then, the ship sunk, and they all drowned a wet death. the end.
===========

From: GEORGE WILLIAMS     
To: ALL                 
Subject: coming fucking 
Date & Time: 07/17/90 03:00:36
Message Number  6473

Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating cocksucking dic
Fuck you, you god damn mother fucking asshole shiteating co
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: * ALL *             
Subject: Mr. Williams   
Date & Time: 07/17/90 04:10:36
Message Number  6476

As you can see from the preceeding message, we had a royal Grade A
asshole abuse this system last night. Mr. Williams has successfully put
my belief in "open" bulletin boards and my opposition to censorship to
the test. I did, in fact, delete six messages he posted; each was an
exact duplicate of the preceeding post.
 
I have no idea who George Williams is or why he chose to vomit all over
the message base. I have attempted unsuccessfully to reach him at the
number he listed in the userlog to find out what his problem is. At any
rate, the man has shaken my faith in the BBS users' community; I have
acted as a sysop for two different boards, and in the two or three
years I've been operating a computer BBS this is the first time anyone
has abused my policy of totally open access, but it's still rather
distressing.
 
I apologise for Mr. Williams' unacceptable behavior and sincerely hope
he will not return. If for some reason he chooses to call this board
again, I trust he will behave less the part of the asshole, since I 
would profoundly regret the necessity to institute a new-user-
verification policy for the sake of one individual.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 13:47:05
Message Number  6477

I can't speak for Turtle; I happen to like Tina Turner.  My objection to
"pop" isn't with a song's popularity, or with it not being hard rock,
or what-have-you... it's when a song is musically and/or lyrically a
wasteland that I get disturbed.  I don't mind electronic music, but I do
not like tinny mechanical rhythms tracked under essentially meaningless
words... it has nothing to do with, say, what radio station is most
likely to play a song.  I still like John Denver's "Rocky Mountain
High," even though it's got nary an electronic instrument in it,
because it's musically nice (if not overwhelming) and the lyrics show a
fair amount of thought, not just  "what rhymes with X" construction.
(This song gets dumped on by a whole lot of people who seem to be
trying to stick it in the same class as, say, Chris Cross's "Sailing,"
but I bet almost none of them could say exactly what's going on in
"Rocky Mountain High"....)
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/17/90 13:53:02
Message Number  6478

I am aware the singer had a child by the person she's speaking of, and
she was unable to conceive with her husband.  My objection is that, in
my view, she used the "stranger" as well as her husband and left at
least one of them miserable -- two, if her husband finds out.  It WAS
a one-night stand, and the song is painting it in pretty, "isn't this
an absolutely wonderful night we've had" pictures without even touching
subjects like, well, how she's using this guy, how she really doesn't
care for him except as a lust object, what his feelings might be when
she leaves before he wakes up, or anything about her husband at all.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/17/90 13:57:16
Message Number  6479

What is the similarity?  In one case you are describing two people of
the same sex attracted to one another -- which, despite the stereotype
you seem to be operating from, does NOT mean they have to be promiscuous
or exist in a non-monogamous relationship; in another you are describing
one partner cheating on the other one, i.e., having sex with someone
else without her ostensible "lover" at least knowing about it.  I am
full aware of your prejudices against sexual activity that doesn't fit
your definition of what is "moral" and "immoral," but that is not the
issue at hand.  A relationship built on trust is the same regardless of
who is involved; one built on lies is the same regardless of who is
involved.  The lying is what I am objecting to, not the sexual activity
in and of itself, whether you are talking about homosexuality, group
sex, or what-have-you... I am of the belief that if everyone involved
is a consenting adult, it's their business, even if it's business I
don't like and would never be involved in myself.
    But I believe we've already went through this.  I believe that a
person's sexual life, as long as it doesn't demonstrably harm others,
is their business (in fact, that can be said of their entire life in
general); you believe that if a person's life doesn't fit your idea of
moral purity, it makes that person worthless scum, correct?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:05:56
Message Number  6480

A lot of what's in Christian lore really isn't in the Bible to begin
with.  Purgatory most definitely is not.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Pop            
Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:07:41
Message Number  6481

Hey, I've seen George Michael's girlfriend (the one in the video for
"I Want Your Sex," in fact).  Personally, I think Georgie left Andrew
Ridgely because Ridgely has no discernible talent whatsoever, but even
if their relationship was more than business, I could see why he'd leave
Andy, or just about anyone else, for her.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: definitions    
Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:13:23
Message Number  6482

I am not talking about becoming a monk, I am talking about acting in
ways which are directly contrary to your stated belief systems.  That
crosses the bounds of "leaving room for being human" and moves over into
blatant hypocrisy.  And I stand by my "manifest bullshit": Christianity
has a long history of saying one thing and doing quite another.  The
Crusades, the Inquisitions, and the centuries of witch-hunts in Europe
were not too bloody "Christian" in my book.  Going up to a village of
pagans and saying "We worship the God of Love.  You do it, too, or we'll
kill you" would sure qualify as a direct contradiction to someone who
wasn't actively trying to defend the Christian tradition.
 
   "If ever the book which I am not going to be write is to be written,
    it will be a full apology for the acts of Christiandom.  We have
    shouted the name of Christ and enacted the service of Moloch."
                                  - C.S. Lewis
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Catholicism    
Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:18:20
Message Number  6483

I know what the definition of Christian is.  I also know some
Episcopalians who have been told, point blank, by Baptist ministers that
they are going to Hell because they do not believe the Bible is the
literal Word of God.  Personally, the last church service I voluntarily
attended was a funeral for a friend of mine.  Upon entering her Catholic
church, we were all handed programs bearing a note that non-Catholics
were requested not to partake of communion until "doctrinal differences"
between Catholicism and Protestant denominations were resolved.
    This sort of horseshit may be more damaging to organized Christian
religion rather than Christianity itself, but I have been lectured by
several people from varying denominations on the importance of not being
a loner, i.e., if you're not a member of a church group you're missing
a whole lot of Neat Stuff (or you're not really a Christian, depending
on which denomination you ask).
   At any rate, this nonsense is part-and-parcel of Christianity, for
practical purposes.  You can argue all you want about it not touching
the deep meaning, and you can be perfectly correct... but organized
religion is probably one of the biggest contributing factors to atheism
and agnosticism in the modern world.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ALL                 
Subject: Stuff          
Date & Time: 07/17/90 14:33:33
Message Number  6484

About Mr. Williams... Turtle, I'd appreciate it if you deleted his
one-line message in the Ranean Tales base, since I don't have the
ability to do it myself.  (I would also delete the message you left
in the Up & Coming Stuff area from him; its "value" as an example of
what he did may be counterbalanced by its obnoxiousness, not to mention
the effect it might have on intelligent new users -- when I call a BBS
and see a message like that that's been left in the base, I usually
don't call back.)
 
Also, with any luck, I'm going to be changing my handle to "Max" fairly
shortly (the "Donthen" account will probably still be here for the
storyboard, if Turtle lets it).
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 15:01:23
Message Number  6485

I'm watching less and less TV now a days.  My only real fix at this time
is "Stingray."  I can't think of anything else I look forward to
watching.  Oh yes, "Grand" on NBC.  I do keep the TV on late at night 
just to keep me company (I find it's smaller, and doesn't eat as much, a
as Zot Gnop).
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Story (finally 
Date & Time: 07/17/90 15:21:32
Message Number  6488

     I turn my attention from Angel to Wezip.  'Nice outfit' I think to
myself as I look over the fox, who's now dragging the bartender to
parts unknown.  Just then I hear a growl of some large animal.  I scan
around the room and find a large white furry (and probably hungry) mass
under a table.  "E Gads," I proclaim.  "Angel, I'm afraid your not
covered by large arctic animals, or penguins for that matter," I say
and move quickly towards Turtle, leaving Angel to tell of her new ship,
and Sam angry at Angel.
     Putting on my used car salesman smile I say "I'll make you a deal
Turtle."  I hunch down next to Turtle and whisper, "Yes, I have been
shot at lately.  Yes, they'll probably try to shoot me again.  If you
help me from getting any more holes in my body, I'll help you get your
TV station.  Deal?"    
===========

From: BONGO-MAN           
To: ALL                 
Subject: was a nice day 
Date & Time: 07/17/90 18:24:11
Message Number  6490

As the sun moves just slightly westward, but still remains blazing hot,
a grim bearded figure, dressed in a flamboyant red-and-orange shirt and
annoyingly bright peach-colored pants appears, framed in the doorway 


, a spectre of colors from the low end of the spectrum, a hideous
conformist's nightmare. On his head, a worn and floppy beige fishing
hat. In his hands--and bound on a strap round his neck--he holds a pair
of small linked drums.
 
"Ha ha!" he cries in a ringing voice. "This is the moment you have all
awaited for so many long months! I have returned!"
 
"A bold challenge, stranger," says Thrud, "such as I have rarely heard
from humankinde. But could ye not donne an overcoat, for verily ye
doth afflict my eyes with the loathesomme glare of frost blindness.
Comme then, sit beside me and tell me sommewhat of yourself. Your name,
perhaps."
 
"Are you sure you want to know?" one of the bar old-timers observes--
perhaps it was Turtle, but he's busy these days and may have hired
someone to make his wry comments for him.
 
"Aye, and surely," says Thrud. "For I am big man, and can spare a bit
of my time to learne of this most peculiar stranger."
 
"Very well," proclaims the man in orange and peach as he takes a seat
and the bar and plunks down his drums with a ringing slam. "I am 
Bongo-Man, and I have the power of Unbeatable Rhythm. Wezip, get me a
Rumpleminze and orange juice! Say, there, frost giant, have you seen
Brathburn lately? Since he had that affair with Surtur's wife I haven't
talked to him much."
 
"Pah," says Thrud. "I have no truck with fire giants. But no, foxlike
fellow, mix not that frigid schnapps with a paltry juice! So cool and
biting a drink is it, that my friend and I will have a flagon each,
well chilled with blocks of ice that I carry here, broken from the berg
of Hjarglarffersson, that Thor smashed in his foolish insolence when
===========

From: BONGO-MAN           
To: ALL                 
Subject: good day cont  
Date & Time: 07/17/90 18:43:48
Message Number  6491

(thrud describes a rumpleminze on the rocks to bongo-man)
...Thor in his insolence smashed when it floated, lovely and pure,
through the aqueous ether to menace accursedde Bifrost."
 
"I don't have any such ice," Wezip says matter-of-factly.
 
"That," declares Thrud, "was the coldest ice I have ever held in my
horny hand, and well would it suit the throat-splitting drink we now
watch poured for us. Nay, fox-man, pour a flagon for each here who 
will have it; I feel generous!"
 
"Anyway," says Bongo-Man, rapping on his drums for attention, "you
must all be wondering where I've been for the last year and a half."
 
"Not really," says the wisecracking bar old-timer who was suspected of
being Turtle.
 
"I traveled far in search of the man wearing the invisible earring, who
I suspected of being the assassin who assaulted that...most curious 
unicorn who was here. But when I finally tracked him down, it seemed he
was actually a trader named Cyrano Jones, who was trying to avoid Star-
fleet by hiding in another dimension. It had something to do with a 
little creature just like this one." From his pocket, Bongo-Man produces
a small, r	ound, furry creature with no head, no arms, and no legs, that
produces a soothing furry sound.
 
"Geez," says Wezip, "don't bring a tribble into the bar! It took a year
to get rid of them last time!"
 
"Excuse me?" says Bongo-Man as he casually tosses the purring tribble
into an inaccesible spot. "Did somebody say, 'blatant and annoying 
ripoff of an overdone idea?' Sorry, I wasn't listening. So anyway, I 
left Cyrano Jones alone and started to make my way back to this dimen-
sion, but along the way I ran into a fellow by the name of Werdna, and
...excuse me," he says to Angel, "but I couldn't help noticing that
you're wearing an eduzra skin?"
 
"No," says Angel.
"Oh-kay," says Bongo-Man. He grabs his flagon of Rumpleminze on the
rocks and downs it. See you guys." Banging on his drums, he withdraws
from the bar.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/17/90 19:55:27
Message Number  6492

KO> Gee, mandatory recycling....Can we say Marxist?  Communist, maybe?
  So, what do you have against recycling?  Do you think it's a good 
idea?  If you do, then the only way you are going to get people to do
it is make it mandatory.  There are too many people out there who just
don't give a damn.  
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: THRUD               
Subject: handle         
Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:04:12
Message Number  6493

T>Now, arent' you sorry you asked?
 
No, that was fascinating! Tell me, what was the question?  And what was
the correct answer?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:13:51
Message Number  6494

JB> ...isn't that a rather rude and self centered group of statements
  
  Yes, and they bother the shit out of me too!  But we weren't bashing 
those assholes, we were bashing religous people in general.  And one
thing...I deplore all this modern overspecialization.  Religionis 
(scuze) Religious people are religious people, whether they are Jew,
Cristian, Charismatic, Fundamentalist, what-have-you.  You can usually
group them all into one lump sum, because they all are going to 
Heaven, dontchaknow.  (At least every one of them is convinced.)   And
they are usually judgemental...even to the least amout, you can't tell 
me that there's a religious person out there who can look at, say,
a heavy metal rocker and think, "Tsk, tsk, tsk.  He's going to hell, 
for certain.  Shame."    They all can't help but think it.  Well, that
punk rocker doesn't *need* thier pity, and probably would be incenced at
the *thought* of someone making that kind of conclusion.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:22:31
Message Number  6495

JB>...and you belong to some group know as nonsmoker fanaticus then...
JB>...-such behavior isn't restricted to RELIGION - I prefer to believe
JB>...everyone has the...ability to be...ASSHOLE.
  
   Hmmm.  I take it that you smoke, then.   Such a shame, for you will
certainly fall into that dark place where your lungs will suffer eternal
torment, and you shall reside in Hospital Cancer Ward until the end of
your time.   Unless you see the light, and deprive yourself of all furth
further pleasures of the tobbacco and become SAVED, yes, can you hear me
brother? (Shout from crowd, "YES!")  Yes, you must SAVE yourself from
this nasty addition to this sinful NIcotine and Tar substance which even
now your very body fights to rid itself of!  Yes, you KNOW that you 
should stop!  (Shout from the crowd, "STOP!  STOP!")   Then, when you ha
have quit, you can go forth and do the Nonsmokers work...lobby your 
Congressmen!  Join the Holy Boycotts of restaraunts without NO-SMOKING 
sections!  ("Yes!  Yes!  No more smoke!")    Let us pray...
'Oh, great  Cigarrest campaign, we thank you for helping us to no longer
smoke, to no longer bear this great addiction which surely would have 
caused us to linger in the Cancer Ward till the end of our days.  We as
ask that you spend more on advertising and perhaps one day, make the 
Amazing Discoveries show, we ask that more people can see your way,
and join us in our cause. '  Halleluja!

===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:38:44
Message Number  6497

JB> - when the majority says its immoral - they can make it stick.
  
 Or a Vocal Minority.  
  
VOLLEY
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:40:07
Message Number  6498

JB> And you, sir, are stereotyping southern with hick.  Ignorance knows
JB>no bounds as I am sure you are aware..
  
  Yes, sir.  That was not my intention.   I am sure that there are a lot
of intelligent southern borns....  Suffice to say, I have not met many,
but that may be because there are so many damn yanks who have moved down
here.  (Bringing with them a modicum of intelligence, themselves.)  The
idea was to point out a stereotype, not to succumb to it.   If it's any
reassurance to anyone, everyone on this board is a Southerner, to me.
(I am from Maine, tho, that's not something to brag about.)  Does anyone
have the statistics on who is the best educated state?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:45:23
Message Number  6499

JB> Hey - yer petulant and ain't even close to diety status...
  
Yes, sir, but I don't EXPECT everybody to worship me.  What a joke.  
God creates man, then gives him free will, then if man doesn't worship
Him, sends him to Hell!  Some friggin free will!  THAT
is my major PEEVE with religion.  You don't have a choice.  All your 
kickin and screaming, in the end you don't have a choice.  You WILL
worship Him or you WILL go to hell. EOF.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Moral/Immoral/A
Date & Time: 07/17/90 20:57:17
Message Number  6500

Ok, that's a good point.  Lets re-state, (or allow me to). First, the 
examples you cited prove my point.  The extermination of Jews was 
dissaproved of more widely than it was approved of.  South Africa is 
dissaproved by more than it is approved of.  Therefore, both could be
considered immoral.  
  And I consider anything PERVERSE to be immoral.  And that includes
Beastiality, Homosexuality.  (They can be lumped into the same 
category - perverse.   And the action of a Sick Mind.) If Charles
Dittell (who we all know, he's really a good guy and I'm sorry to 
use him in this example) who we all know is perfectly normal guy.
I mean, we all like him, and he is nomral in all respects (at least
he seems to be and if he isn't PLEASE don't anyone tell me, cause I
really like the guy) I say again, normal.  Now if tomorrow you all
found out that he was into molesting little girls, what would you 
think of him?  "Oh, he's really a swell guy.  So what if he's into 
molesting little girls in his spare time in his own house.  *I don't
care.*"  I think not.  I for one would drop all association with him. 
And don't push any of that crap at me, 'Oh, he needs you most the, 
(SP-then) because he needs his friends now more than ever.'  Hey, I've
heard sweetness and light and I'm sick of it.  And the same goes of 
anybody...if they are PERVERSE then I want nothing to do with them.  
I can't see why /you/ don't understand where I'm coming from!!!!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:11:18
Message Number  6501

T>Do you believe that there are no monogamous homosexual relation-
T>ships? 
  Oh, no, I have heard of states legalizing marraige between two of 
the same sex.  *sigh*  I can't believe it, but I've heard of it.
T>Homos (what a...quaint word!)...
  I could use others.  I would prefer to use others.  Give me PERMISSION
to use others. 
T>...can be faithful to one another too, shocking as that may be to 
T>discover, hmm?
  I'm not shocked.  It kind of follows, in the wake of the recent AIDS 
epidemic.   Although, I'm sure, that there were even before the 
disease.  I still think it's sick.   But then, I suppose that
they think I'm sick for preferring women.
  
 "Oh, that NASTY boy!  LOOK at what heeth with!"
 "Ummm.  What a shame." 
  
  Sorry, I couldn't resist.  
  
  So, then you agree with Donthen...so what else is new.  I'm just tryin
to defend Heart.  But it irks me a little that he criticized that and 
supports homosexuality.  Seems to me that a stereotype has to emerge
somewhere.  Just as a legend should have a grain of truth.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:22:05
Message Number  6502

T> Whew! kinda superior there, doncha think?
   
No.
 
T> I can think of some relatively irreverent peope who could use a 
T>broader outlook...
  
And I can think a a few people who are somewhat close minded, also.
What's your point?  
 
Look, just do me a favor and acknowledge my point of view.  I can see
where you might think that what goes on behind closed doors can be
one's own business, but there are exceptions to that rule, too!!!
I'm not saying that there is no such things as "one's own business",
but I can't condone child beating, or molestation, or rape, or homo...
or beasti..., and these are all things that can go on behind closed 
doors!!!  Now, you tell me that all these things are all perfectly 
acceptable to you under your "one's own personal business" rule and 
I'll finally understand what kind of person you are.  (And anyone else 
who can say that!!)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Frustration... 
Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:29:39
Message Number  6503

T>Ummm... Gun control!  Gun control!
  
HAHAH!  Man, you are funny!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: GEORGE WILLIAMS     
Subject: nice bear      
Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:35:52
Message Number  6504

-----------------------
   What in the heck was that?!?!
-----------------------
 Crispan, having nothing better to do, turns an ear to the other side 
of the bar, where Wezip has pulled Xon aside.  It is difficult 
to discern what is being said, especially after Xon's annoyed order.
He gives up, finally.  He goes to drink, and finds that his bottle is
empty.  He shoves it forward, and looks around the bar.
  He wonderes idly where that pretty fox is.  Xons girlfriend.  A 
polar bear snuffles him for a minute causing him some consternation,
and moves on.  His browns furrow.  A polar bear?  When did that com 
in?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: relationships 
Date & Time: 07/17/90 21:46:04
Message Number  6505

D>...you believe that if a person's life doesn't fit your idea of
D>moral purity, it makes that person worthless scum, correct?
 
No, it makes them sick.  Sick.  I don't feel that any other person 
in a mental ward is worthless scum.  THe only difference is that one
is walking the street, while the other is locked up. 
  
  Sick.
  Mentally defective.  Something wrong, something shorted.  Something 
not quite resgistering.  Sick.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:14:08
Message Number  6506

> So, like what are you saying?  That the bible has nothing to do with
> Christian religion?
 
No, I said exactly what I said.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: GEORGE WILLIAMS     
Subject: misspelling    
Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:31:39
Message Number  6507

The word dick has a "k" on the end.  If you go to the trouble of
writing it so often, you should at least spell it correctly.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Mr. Williams   
Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:46:25
Message Number  6508

Donthen, why are advocating censorship?  Why are you suggesting
Turtle delete certain messages?  Wasn't it you so incensed just a short
while ago when I even hinted that there were certain messages that
Turtle might wish to delete?  You want to re-think your speech
against censorship?  Is it only messages that offend you that should
be considered deleted?  This is not argumentative....  I'm actually
laughing.  I thought if I waited long enough a situation would arise
where you advocated deleting messages ("censorship" as you called it,
not I).  You have made me very happy.
   Personally, I feel leave the messages in (though I applaud the
deletion of the multiple copies of it .... redundancy should always
be avoided).
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: definition     
Date & Time: 07/17/90 22:52:55
Message Number  6509

That is your definition of Christianity.  The Jehovah Witnesses and
Seventh Day Adventists would disagree.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:26:13
Message Number  6511

> M.C. Hammer penning the equivalents to Don Henley's...
 
  Speaking of which, I don't think M.C. Hammer can write songs about 
anything but himself. I'd like to see someone prove me wrong. Actually, 
if I had to pick someone in rap who approximates music, I would say M.C.
Hammer or Young M.C. (at least from what small amount of rap I've heard)
... The problem is, everything I've heard M.C. Hammer do has been pretty
much from his ego, such as he's got a god given gift to be a great 
rapper and he's been all around the world and he has a lot of money, and
"U Can't Touch This"...
  Even the album title makes himself out to be a big deal: "Please, 
Hammer, Don't Hurt 'Em"...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:35:01
Message Number  6512

 > not the icons of the..."I've Got Your Girlfriend" audience...
 
 What scares me is that if you tune into MTV's daily request countdown,
it turns out to be mostly metal and such. Some of it could be good. 
Groups like Poison make me wonder... some of the stuff is better. The 
sons of Ricky Nelson formed a semi-metal group that isn't that bad. But,
to see that up in the same countdown with a group who shows a fish 
gasping for oxygen bugs me...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:40:07
Message Number  6513

> But he always points out women, I think there is some sort of 
> discression going on here!
 
 Discression? I don't think so. I think you mean discrimination. Think, 
though. Try naming some pop stars. Most of them are women. Madonna, 
Paula Abdul, Janet Jackson, Wilson Philips, etc... probably more.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ETC...              
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:43:33
Message Number  6514

> manditory recycling programs...
 
  Better opt for voluntary recycling. Some sicko is bound to pop up and 
say that someone telling him he HAS to separate his trash to recycle 
violates his rights...
 
  I'm for recycling though. I wish it were easier. They should have us
separate the trash into aluminum, glass, paper, etc., and then then, 
they can pick it up  for you. Of course, then you don't get paid for it,
you pay for them to pick it up.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/17/90 23:55:26
Message Number  6515

> ...so do you have the right to behave in accordance with yours?
 
  I never said we had the right to act for the religion. I just said you
ave the right to choose one. I always follow the idea that you have the 
right to do something unless it intrudes upon someone else. I know that
is quite vague, and it might be wrong, but it sounds logical. 
  
  I know, "Whoever said the human race is logical"?
  (R) Paramount Pictures, Inc. 1986.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:01:27
Message Number  6516

> His CD has some of the most amazing Surround Sound effects I have ever
> heard on a CD....
 
  Now that I have a Dolby processor, I have listened to a lot of stuff, 
and in my opinion, the mixing blows George Michael away. Stuff like Paul
McCartney's "Flowers in the t" has a good front/back separation that is 
quite apparent and nice. The B-52's "Cosmic Thing" has some nice effects
but they could have used more.
  Older stuff, like the Beatles' collection, worked surround from four-
track masters, so you get some apparent surround effects, such as full 
vocal backing and a whole bass section, or an orchestra, and my favorite
-- double tracked vocals out of the rear channels...
  That's just me, however. I also found that my setup produces a more 
noticable effect. When I hear your system, everything seems a bit ddled
in a mix...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Moral/Immoral/A
Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:10:17
Message Number  6517

> You and I (and everybody else) think that it's perverse...
 
  I think Donthen, and Turtle, and I (and everybody else) would consider
that a rude statement. I don't have anything against homosexuality. I 
don't find ANYTHING perverse. Shall we consider someone perverse because
they like to watch gory movies? You might get some psychological 
evidence that watching gory movies is perverse, but I've never heard 
anyone say  that homosexuality is perverse. I think it stems from the 
fact that people are uncomfortable around them. I personally don't know
if I've met any homosexuals. I don't think it's perverse, either. If t
they were to MAKE me join in, that would possibly be perverse.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:15:17
Message Number  6518

> What's the difference?
 
> what's the difference between a hetro man/woman and a Homo man/woman 
> as far as multiple lovers?
 
  In your first case, you are asking the difference between homo-
sexuality and not being monogomous. There, there's a heap of difference.
In your second case, there is NO difference. If a person has multiple 
lovers, it's the same thing if they are heterosexual or homosexual.
  The question about how Donthen can approve of homosexuality and dis-
approve of one-night stands frankly makes no sense to me. Evidently, you
consider both acts immoral, but he doesn't. It's all your prerogative, 
but I think you'll find that a lot of people here don't find ome-
(oops) homosexuality immoral.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Bumper annoyanc
Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:39:09
Message Number  6519

> "You know, I'm a Christian so I'm better than you."
 
  Or, my favorite:
  "...Because we're anglo-saxon Christians and we know best."
  -- (TM) Armadillo Connection, Inc. a subsidiary of Robinson Computer 
  Services
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 00:53:04
Message Number  6520

> It's much smaller and doesn't eat as much as Zot Gnop
 
  Unfortunately, I only have a TV to keep me company. Jeez, my summer is
really sucky. Daily, I wake up at 11:00 or so after staying up late 
doing nothing in particular. Then, since I have no transportation except
for my feet (and there is nowhere within reasonable limits for me feet
to take me to), I stay in my home. My parents won't do anything about 
getting me a bike, since I'm almost old enough to drive. My parents are 
lazy, slobbish jerks, and they won't listen to my ideas for change. I 
hate that. I can't STAND being cooped up here. When the time comes that 
they have a day off, and I could actually GET somewhere, they're too 
lazy to go anywhere unless they need to meet their daily quota of Pepsi,
beer, and cigarettes. 
 
 Forgive my ranting and raving, but I really need someone to give me 
relief so I can cope with being REALLY bored and lost...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:05:02
Message Number  6521

> molestation...rape...homo
 
ey, we all know you don't condone those thingThere is, however, a 
difference there. Molestation and rape are not in any way related to 
homosexuality. Molestation and rape are acts that an individual does 
against another person, whereas homosexuality is something that people
whconsent with one another have. I don't see any relation. Where can 
homosexuality hurt you? A rape could, but how does homosexuality hurt 
YOU??
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Really offtopic
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:15:00
Message Number  6522

>I can't speak for Turtle...
 
No, but a lot of people claim you speak just /like/ him.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:20:08
Message Number  6523

Stingray is awesome. Stingray is the television program of the
aardvarks. Stingray is an example of what TV programming can be when
it's not overrun by illiterate schmuks. Stingray requires the viewer's
brain to be engaged while it's on.
 
Stingray was a commercial flop. Stingray got cancelled.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Earth??!! Huh? 
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:22:40
Message Number  6524

You have TWO Timex-Sinclairs? You computer geek! What on earth does
someone need with FOUR computers???
 
...wanna get rid of one of them?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:27:03
Message Number  6525

>They all subscribe to the same God, right? So what more?
 
Ted Bundy and I both drive (or drove) Volkswagen Bugs...so what more?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really somethin
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:28:17
Message Number  6526

>Does anyone have the statistics on who is the best educated state?
 
Uh...Japan?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really odd     
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:29:19
Message Number  6527

>You WILL worship Him or you WILL go to Hell.
 
FOR sinner:=burned TO cinder;
NEXT sinner
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Moral/Irrelevan
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:30:48
Message Number  6528

My point was that the regimes of both South Africa and (particularly)
the Third Reich had popular support; does that mean that in the context
of those societies, their actions were moral? Or is morality determined
on a WORLDWIDE scale? (If that's the case, I bet you'd find that
polygamy is moral...)
 
In any event, Sir, you disappoint me. Trying to equate homosexuality
with child molestation just don't work. Or does it matter to you that
the one is an action between consenting adults and the other is an
attack on an innocent person? If the difference is irrelevant to you,
then would you say that rape and sexual intercourse are on the same
moral plane? You have placed yourself in the unenviable position of
making a comparison I think even /you/ won't attempt to defend.
 
Speaking of morality, which we are, would you consider oral-genital
intimacy an immoral act? I have here in front of me a magazine article
which states that two months ago in Lincolnton, North Carolina, a man
was sentenced to ten years in prison for engaging in oral sex with his
wife. On the same day, the same judge sentenced a man convicted of
murder to five years in prison and a convicted arsonist to eight years
in prison. I'm curious if there's actually anyone I know who would
say justice was served in that particular case, and the most likely
person I can think of is you (no offense). Incidentally, the law
calls oral sex a "detestible and abominable crime against nature and
mankind" and sets a maximum sixty-year sentence for the act.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Heart          
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:40:32
Message Number  6529

>I have heard of states legalizing marraige between people of the same
>sex...
 
Technically, you can't "legalize" something that wasn't specifically
outlawed to begin with. Those states have simply decided to /legally
recognize/ homosexual pairings.
 
>Give me PERMISSION to use [other words for gays]...
 
Sir, I can hardly /prevent/ you from using any word you want, and in
any event I would not presume to tell you what you can or cannot say
if I could. On the other hand, a racist who uses words like "nigger"
can rightfully be expected to be blasted for it...see the analogy??
 
>You agree with Donthen...
 
Not particularly. He's morally offended by the Heart song; I just find
it insipid and not terribly musically interesting.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Disappointment 
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:44:32
Message Number  6530

>...I can't condone child beating, or molestation, or rape, or homo...
 
*sigh* Very disappointing, indeed. Let's see how many people spot
the flaw in that statement. I shan't even bother to point it out again.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Frustration... 
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:46:53
Message Number  6531

Gun control will make crime go away and make everything perfect forever.
If you don't believe it, ask any fanatic liberal...you can tell 'em
'cause they have both feet firmly planted in the air. Conservatives, on
the other hand, are wiser; they realize crime won't go away until you
take away everyone's dirty magazines.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Pop-ola        
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:51:00
Message Number  6532

>Groups like Poison makle me wonder...
 
Groups like Poison meake me sick. Poison is one group every metal-hater
can rightfully use to bludgeon us headbangers (we headbangers?) quite
thoroughly. Poison's best song to date is "Every Rose Has Its Thorns,"
which on a scale of 1 to 10 barely pulls a 3.5. For the most part,
Poison does to heavy metal what Jonestown did to Kool-Aid.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ---                 
Subject: Huh? Wha?      
Date & Time: 07/18/90 01:56:52
Message Number  6533

Turtle frowns, smiles, frowns again, then tries to do both without
success. He reaches out to a large, fluffy animal and scratches it
behind the ears as it sniffs suspiciously at him, then stares at it
in utter astonishment as it wanders away. "Uh...Um, you know...uh..."
he says, tugging at Angel's sleeve with one hand while pointing
frantically at the oversized polar bear with the other. Angel,
oblivious, continues talking about her ship. "Uh, hey, uh, Rufus?"
he tries, and for his effort is rewarded with the insurance salesman's
plea for help. "Um, somebody /is/ trying to shoot at you? Bummer! I
hate when that happens. Um, there's a polar bear eating something nasty
behind you. Is it yours? Oh, never mind, it's the giant's. Never mind.
Wonder how he got it through the door. Yeah, of course I'd be happy to
help find out who's trying to kill you. Uh, who /is/ trying to kill you,
anyway? Oh, God, Not him, not now, please!" Turtle sighs and glares at
the bongo-person who's just popped into the pub. The bongoed individual
gets into a conversation with the Norse giant, with Turtle interjecting
the occasional comment, and vanishes. Turtle turns to Rufus and says
"God, I need a vacation. Rufus, why is that little red thing on your
briefcase blinking like that?"
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/18/90 03:22:01
Message Number  6534

     My parents live in Ft. Myers, they have a manditory recycling 
program their.  They have no problems, they have seperate bags and boy 
do I hear it when I put something in the wrong bag.  They pick certain
stuff up on certain days.  They pay for trash pick up twice a week why 
not one more time.  And becides they provide clear bags for bottles and
plastics so its no real problem.  Anyway I do believe Sarasota should 
pay more attention to the recycling problem then the T-Back problem.
But then who am I.
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Earth??!! Huh? 
Date & Time: 07/18/90 03:31:41
Message Number  6535

  >You have TWO Timex-Sinclairs? You computer geek! What on earth does
  >someone need with FOUR computers???
                                                                        
 >...wanna get rid of one of them?
                                                                        
     Turtle, byte your mother board.
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/18/90 05:00:45
Message Number  6536

You are obviously not concerned about the fact that our country is going
MARXIST and such -- Oh well...Hey, why has your system connected me at
300 baud -- The auto-baud on my term (really helpful) dumped me into the
300 baud mode instead of the usual 1200 for your board!
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/18/90 05:05:17
Message Number  6537

Sure Recycling is a good idea, but nothing should be made "mandatory"
besides taxes!  :)  We can offer incentives to recycle -- Like a deposit
program on cans like many states have done -- We can do the same for
most anything...And the people still have a choice if they desire to 
recycle or not...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: ALL                 
Subject: Hiya!Q         
Date & Time: 07/18/90 05:09:31
Message Number  6538

ATTENTION!  ATTENTION!  ATTENTION!  ATTENTION!  ATTENTION!  ATTENTION!
 
The Armadillo Connection RAS now has FIDONET FURRY ECHOS!  We currently
are polling FURRY FANDOM and FURRY MAGAZINES -- We should be having 
TOONS 'N' MORPHS and a JAPANIMATION ECHO /very/ soon!  SO give us a call
today and grab all the new messages through the echos!  Also!  Aliases
are now allowed, just send a message to the SysOp about which alias you
desire to use.....
 
Give us a call now!
 
The Armadillo Connection RAS
813/378-2218 -=- 24 Hrs -=- 3/12/2400 Baud
In Lovely Sarasota, Florida!   
Fidonet 1:137/999  (Temporary)
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Pop-ola        
Date & Time: 07/18/90 14:25:40
Message Number  6539

 Poison's best song to date is "Every Rose Has Its Thorns,"
 
  And, if I'm not mistaken, that wasn't their song. Either that, or more
than one group has done a song by that title.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/18/90 14:27:41
Message Number  6540

> You are obviously not concerned about the fact that our country is 
> going MARXIST and such --
 
  Jeez, you're starting to sound like the assholes on Beyond Chaos who 
can't shut up about stupid things.
  From the messages I've seen, I believe Turtle is concerned with the 
fact that our freedoms are being taken away.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/18/90 14:29:43
Message Number  6541

> nothing should be made "manditory" besides taxes!
 
 Are you being MARXIST??? 
 
 Grrr... had to do it...
===========

From: MAX                 
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:00:58
Message Number  6542

The "we're all going to heaven and you're not" attitude is not nearly as
common in religions that aren't Judeo-Christian.  A lot of early
European religions, like Wicca, and most Eastern ones believe that all
religions are potentially paths to the truth and their chosen religion
is merely the best one (i.e., Christianity and Buddhism may both lead to
enlightenment, but it's the difference between taking an expressway and
a narrow footpath through the Andes).  Also, many of these religions
don't have concepts that are analagous to "heaven" and "hell" to begin
with.  You are not likely to find any Wiccans accosting you with the
information that if you don't join their coven, your soul is doomed
forever.
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From: MAX                 
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: relationships 
Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:06:34
Message Number  6543

Yes, like I said, you seem to believe it makes them worthless scum.
    One of the major differences between homosexuality and other
"perversions" you list is that it is "victimless."  The people engaged
it are all doing it of their own free will, by their choice.  The same
cannot be said of rape, incest, child molestation, wife beating, or
if you take the animal's point of view into matters, bestiality.  Why
won't YOU acknowledge OUR point -- even if you don't like homosexuality,
and don't condone it or approve of it, it doesn't make the homosexual
in question into a child-molesting perverted monster?  It only makes him
or her) a human being with a sexual preference you don't like.  Not
a human being with a habit that actively hurts others, which is what you
seem to keep trying to lump it in with.  Comprende?
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From: MAX                 
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Mr. Williams   
Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:10:39
Message Number  6544

I figure a bulletin board is part of the sysop's house.  If it was mine,
I would have deleted the message.  I wouldn't consider it censorship
because I wouldn't be deleting it on the grounds I don't agree with what
our good friend Mr. Williams said, or even how he said it.  As I said
way back in the discussion chain you'd referred to, I /have/ deleted
messages before -- but never on the basis of the ideas in them.
   I know that when I call a board for the first time and I get
confronted with a message like Mr. Williams' and it becomes evident that
the sysop DIDN'T delete it after reading it, it usually indicates the
sort of board I wouldn't want to call again, i.e., one where such things
are taken for granted and the responses are likely to be "shut up, you
f--- dickhead <expletive> <expletive> <etc. etc. etc.>" for the next
50 messages.  Bulletin boards that allow handles to begin with are often
lumped into that category solely on the basis of not forcing everyone
to use real names, hence, I'm admittedly sensitive to anything that
would encourage that reaction.  This is why blatantly offensive messages
with no logic or intelligence behind them comprise one of my buttons.
===========

From: MAX                 
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Gag-ola        
Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:16:36
Message Number  6545

I personally don't like the song with the fish gasping for oxygen.  Both
Rufus and Turtle love it.  While I have a pretty eclectic taste in
music, the appeal of "Epic" (the song in question) escapes me; musically
it's not all that impressive, and even if it's a spoof of rap, it's done
in a way that sets me on edge as much as the current masterpieces by
Public Enemy and Ice-T do.  Luckily, it is not representative of the
rest of Faith No More's album.
===========

From: MAX                 
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 15:20:33
Message Number  6546

"Stingray" also had a kind of peculiar episode on last night.
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From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Recycling      
Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:43:47
Message Number  6547

Beatle, it takes very little time to set up three containers for
aluminum, glass, and paper.  Just pop the item in the can (or box, or
whatever you use to hold things) and your done with.  Whenever you get
around to it, go to the recycling place and get some money.  I usually
get at least $12 for my stuff, which makes it worth the 45 mins. I spend
getting down there and back.  Or if you don't want to drive down to
the place, I'm sure there is some church or boy scout troop that would
come and get it.
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From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:49:38
Message Number  6548

Feel free to rant and rave all you want.  Ranting and raving is good
for the enviroment and you.  And it doesn't hurt the ozone layer or
take up space in our land fills.
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From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really annoying
Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:53:40
Message Number  6549

Stingray, we shall miss him.  Thank the aardvarks for bringing Stingray
back in re-runs.
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From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Earth??!! Huh? 
Date & Time: 07/18/90 16:54:29
Message Number  6550

Five computers, if you count the Vic.  I could let you have one if I
can find them.  They are so small, you can lose them between the pages
of a book.
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