read new nonstop follow
87086 1-MAY 15:59  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 86999)
     From: 01GEN40      To: DSRTFOX

   I do not claim to know all there is to know (technically or otherwise
about the "Clipper Chip" or file encryption in general.  All I can say is that
I do not like what this government is doing, (real or implied).  It just
seems to me that it is taking (away) too much and not giving in return.  In my
opinion, banning the export of file     encryption programs and forcing ALL devi
ces
to contain the "Clipper Chip" is not in my best interest.  In my opinion, the
government has this attitude that they DO NOT need a "warrant" to "wire tap"
or otherwise SPY on its citizens. PGP was not exported to other countries.
Phil Zimmerman U/Led it to a BBS and it snowballed from there.
In MY opinion...
   I feel that WE THE PEOPLE should have the right to maintain privacy in
anything we do not want the general public (or government) to know.  By the
Constitution,  we have the right to FREE SPEECH which is what I am exercising
in this message.  If I do not want this message to be general knowledge, I
should be allowed to employ any means at my disposal to keep it that way and
not be subjected to the scrutiny of ANY government just because they might
think that I was one of the BAD GUYS. In MY opinion...
 LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER>

01gen40@delphi.com


-*-

87088 1-MAY 18:37  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87086)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: 01GEN40 (NR)

In the case of the Clipper, you would still have the option of using a
different type of software encryption just as you do now. Most people would
use the hardware clipper routine simply because it is convenient and faster.
ALL data would'nt be encrypted either. So you aren't being FORCED to use
the Clipper technology...
It is really a waste of government money, as the drug dealers would use
different
 shcemes anyway to protect their records. I guess the gov't figures they can
throw  a charge at them for using something else???
I was just adding some facts. It's really nothing to be alarmed at, like the
wait for a security check before being allowed to buy a handgun. No real harm
in that... but criminals won't be buying through legitimate means anyway, and
thoes who go crazy and suddenly shoot lots of people usually already have the
gun, they don't go buy the day they start shooting! Legislation like this is of
little real value, but it seems to appease a large percentage of the population
who can't seem to
see anything but one way. I guess they feel they accomplished SOMETHING in
initiating such near useless legislation. The best GUN CONTROL law occurred in
a small town outside of Atlanta. Every male head of household was REQUIRED to
own somw type of firearm
! Guess what? Crime rate plunged overnight! Who wants to burglarize a
neighborhood where you KNOW 100% there is a gun owner in there?

-*-

87095 1-MAY 18:50  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87086)
     From: JOHNREED     To: 01GEN40 (NR)

 >    I do not claim to know all there is to know (technically or otherwise
 > about the "Clipper Chip" or file encryption in general.  All I can say is
that
 > I do not like what this government is doing, (real or implied).  It just
 > seems to me that it is taking (away) too much and not giving in return.  In
my

Right.  I don't think this is a really big deal all by itself,
just like some well-intentioned lawmakers trying to ban certain
types of guns, "no-knock" searches, and a bunch of cops in
California who got tried twice for the same charge (yeah, they
should have been found guilty the first time, but they were not,
and that should have been the end of it).

None of these things really affect my personal life much, they are
just examples of little "nibbles" at the basic rights that I was
taught were mine forever.

I heard a great quote the other day - can't remember who said
it or the exact words, but this is close --

"  ... to take freedom away from Americans, you have to know how
to cook a frog.  If you drop him in hot water, he jumps right
out.  The trick is to put him in cold water, then turn on the
heat.  By the time he figures out something is wrong, it's
too late .."

           ********************************
 "Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent"
                                        (Pogo)

 John R. Wainwright <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

-*-

87100 1-MAY 21:36  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87088)
     From: WDTV5        To: DSRTFOX

Nice bit of legislation! I'm interested in finding out what town, how far
the crime rate dropped, etc. Those are the kind of facts that those of us
who happen to think the 2nd ammendment is the currently slowly warming frog
1~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?~?be one track minds that would slowly disarm the general
pubkllic
do they can do as they darned well please with us. Thats not what made this
country what it once was, and which I'd like to see brought back to life.
So where was it, all the glorious details please! Gene Heskett WDTV5

-*-

87102 1-MAY 23:44  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87100)
     From: WA2EGP       To: WDTV5

I don't know about that town but I remember when Florida enacted what appeared
to be a an easier gun control law.  Just about anybody could get one as
opposed to the way it was before.  The media was predicting a blood-bath.
So far, I have heard of no blood-bath in Florida due to this easing of gun
control.  Hmmmmmm...........  BTW, in NJ "they" want to ban junkyards to accept
cars from pre-81 to reduce pollution from the clunkers and tax every radio
transmitter over 5 watts because of RF pollution.  As one trooper put it,
"They don't want gun control, they want people control."  This could be
applied to just about any kind of "control".

-*-

87109 2-MAY 20:28  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87102)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: WDTV5

I don't recall the town now, sorry! It was on the news here sometime about
two years ago. The police were even holding training seminars for citizens
and advising on types of guns to purchase. Shotguns were suggested for people
who had trouble firing the .38s and 9mms the police were letting some shoot.
Good idea!

-*-

87110 2-MAY 20:31  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87109)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: WA2EGP

I'm a member of two old car clubs. We have proven pretty much that such
legislation is utterly useless! If an old car is kept up, it produces no more
polution than a newer car in most cases. A two year old car with 150,000 miles
and needing a ring job does more damage than my 63 Rambler with a new engine.
One club member sent copies of the Mass. inspection reports for his 76 Pacer
and 88 Mini-Van (Chrysler V-6) to his rep. The Pacer was way under the
allowable standards while the van barely passed! The van had about 30,000
miles on it, the Pacer over 100,000! The Pacer had a head job (valve grind
and new seals) at around 80,000 miles, that was all.. still original
rings!!

-*-

87118 2-MAY 22:38  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87109)
     From: WDTV5        To: DSRTFOX (NR)

Frankly, I agree.  The only problem with that is then somebody will want
to saw it off below the limit, not knowing what the limit is, and get into
all kinds of trouble with the firearms act of 1934, the year I was born!
In My Own Not So Humble View, the prosecution really should oughta go
look for some gink that just held up the 7-11 & managed to get away without
being made rather leaky by that same sawed off shotgun! To me, you have the
God given right to defend whats yours *with* whatever means is at your
disposal. Maybe I'm a cranky old f--- but I've been working for a living
for 46 of my 59 years, looking for work maybe a total of 4 months in the
last 30 years. I pay my taxes and think they should *not* be used for the
latest so-called social engineering idea, but for pay and gear for law
enforcement, and jails to put them in the first 2 times, unless its
personal injury related, as in shooting the clerk. Once is more than enough
for that kind of person.  End of sermon.
Sorry if I offend anyone, but its a first amendment and second amendment
freedom we're talking about here folks.  Gene Heskett, WDTV5@delphi.com

-*-

87147 3-MAY 23:21  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87110)
     From: WA2EGP       To: DSRTFOX (NR)

I know what you mean.  I had a 73 Toyota Corolla that passed the 85 California
standards....even at 185,000 miles.  Not even a cat converter.  Got damn good
milage too (29.5 highway) with a 2 speed auto trans.  Too bad I had to dump it,
got body cancer from all the @$%&*! salt they put on the road.  Talk about
pollution!  They only major work was a head gasket job every few years.  If I
could have only gotten a new body.......

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87087 1-MAY 18:25  General Information
     RE: Current Periodicals (Re: Msg 87046)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JEVESTAL

Patch09 is a "joint product" of FARNA and Conect. I had the idea, and asked
Rick for some help in compiling the best patches/utilities. He added the
auto-patch routine himself. We both market it for about the same price!
I sell the disk set alone for $7.50 + $2.50 S&H (per order), while Rick sells
for $3.50 + $4.00 S&H. If all you want is the disk set, you get a better deal
from Rick. BUT.... if you want the "OS-9 Quick Reference Guide" along with
the disks from me, the disk price is only $5. The QRG is $7.50, you get both
for $12.50. Most people who have the QRG say it is very helpful and they
rarely pull the manuals off the shelf now. I also have one for OSK now at
$8.50 (+ $2.50 S&H per order). It is virtually the same, but 60 pages versus
44 for OS-9 (6809).

-*-

87089 1-MAY 18:41  Programmers Den
     RE: Real Make... (Re: Msg 87074)
     From: RHELLER      To: JOHNREED


I found it on the lucy machine.

?
(Which are available lots of places...)

I'm also going need a whole batch of unix-ish things:  like awk, a rm clone
(or a version of del that does not barf if asked to delete a file which is not
there (a really silly error:  "I could not delete your file, because it was not
there.")), and a UNIX-like mv command (or a version of rename that won't barf if

asked to rename a file and happens to give a full (but identical) path for the
destination (i.e. "rename dir/foo dir/foo.bak", where dir is exactly the same
for both args.).

I am trying to build X11R5, and the makefiles are full of this stuff.  I have
"fixed" some of the rules to deal with some of this, but it would be nice
if I had some more uniform fixes.  I don't really want to manually edit a
zillion
Makefiles -- I have ported imake and have written an osk.cf file.  If I can
get things to behave like UNIX, at least enough to get this beast compiled, it
would be a big plus.  (I still have to deal with a somewhat braindead X server,
but that is nether here nor there, and no, the Microware X is not want I want -
just about all of the OSK X11 servers are written to support an "AT keyboard" --

one of those silly things the guys with the blue letters invented just to
torment
people.  There is a German company who, like me, prefers DEC's LK201 keyboards.
Just that their X server has other interesting problems...)

Robert

-*-

87090 1-MAY 18:42  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87072)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: LMCCLURE

Inkjets also have one drawback- they are more expensive on a per page
consumable cost than even laser printers. Many people assume Lasers to be high,
but the consumable cost is actually among the lowest of any printer.... about
2-3 cents a page. Dot matrix
 runs around 4-5 cents, and ink jets around 6-7 cents. This is assuming new
cartridges/ribbons, not refills, which would bring costdown to dot-matrix on
the ink jets, I think.  They aren't very fast either, most run around 2ppm or
140 or less CPI.

-*-

87093 1-MAY 18:49  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87084)
     From: JOHNREED     To: 10BAUD (NR)

 > I must admit I don't do color printing, or printing that would really
 > benefit from color.  That may be why I'm so satisfied with my 24 pin
 > black and white Epson Action Printer 3250.
 > Are you implying that a b/w ink jet is as inexpensive as a 24 pin?
 >

Just saw a Deskjet 500 at a local office supply store for
$249.00  -- that is a lot less than I paid for mine
a while back.

           ********************************
 "Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent"
                                        (Pogo)

 John R. Wainwright <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

-*-

87107 2-MAY 02:45  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87093)
     From: ISC          To: JOHNREED

John,

I find my HP Deskjet 500 far faster than my old 9-pin dot matrix from
Rat Shack, and I refill my ink cartridge with Shaffer "Skrip" ink for
about $2 a bottle!  I can refill my cartridge between 4 or 5 times
with one bottle of ink.  That brings my cost per page down lower
than buying or re-inking those ribbons from Rat Shack and, I would
guess, lower than a laser printer.

Bill

-*-

87111 2-MAY 20:36  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87107)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: ISC

Traditionally, an ink-jet costa about 7 cents per page (give or take a cent)
in consummables IF all new consumables are used. Refilling definately takes
a big chunk out of that!

-*-

87114 2-MAY 21:56  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87107)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: ISC

 RE I find HP faster then my 9 pin from Radio Shack.

  Bill,,, there is (grin) nothing slower then a Radio Shack 9 pin printer.
  Cept perhaps,, an older model teletype @ 110 baud.

  Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87116 2-MAY 21:58  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87111)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: DSRTFOX (NR)

  RE> Ink jets tradittionally cost 7 cents  apage.

   Thnkas of r that tip, Frank.  I7ll be  a loooong time before this po kid
 gets an ink jet.
   Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87126 3-MAY 02:24  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87114)
     From: ISC          To: MRUPGRADE

Wow, Terry, you go back.  The slowest transmission speed I ever saw was
300 baud on the old Model 15 Teletype page printers!  You are correct,
though, I never saw anything slower than a Rat Shack 9-pin.  The HP not
only runs at 9600 baud compared to 2400 for the dot matrix, but also
prints in both directions with 360 x 300 dpi resolution at (I forget)
how many pages per minute.  It has 3 resident fonts, portrait and
landscape printing plus 10, 17 and 20 cpi selectable from the panel.
It also has an envelope feeder and 15 manually selectable character
sets.  (Max speed is 19,200 baud, not 9600 mentioned above.)  Using
the Epson FX-80 emulator, it exactly reproduces Max-10 output with
the Epson FX-80 driver that comes with Max-10.  (Max-10 resolution is
72 dpi as it always was.)  It is possible to get the printer to do
just about anything using the HP PCL language commands sent from
basic or OS-9.  I paid over $400 for mine, but saw them advertised
today for $269!!

Bill

-*-

87132 3-MAY 05:36  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87107)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: ISC

I just got a replacable insert cartridge...the ink holder just pops in the
print cartridge.....$51.00 with 5 inserts,I figure the inserts can be refulled
Dennis

-*-

87133 3-MAY 07:32  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87084)
     From: LMCCLURE     To: 10BAUD (NR)

     "Are you implying that a b/w ink jet is as inexpensive
      as a 24 pin?"

What gave you that idea? I *was*, however, pointing out that that
your statement:

          "All the ink jets seem to be priced over $400."

..did not reflect the reality of the marketplace. I am aware that
there a 24-pin dot matrix printers that sell new for less then the
least expensive ink jet (which currently appears to be the Epson
Stylus 300, which I have seen selling for around $230 from some
sources).

I do feel that anyone in the market for a new low end printer would
be much more likely to be satisfied with an ink jet than a 24-pin
impact printer, unless they simply could not afford the small cost
differential. (Assuming the 24-pin model they were considering *was*
actually one that was less expensive than an ink jet).

24-pin printers are better for some uses (i.e., I would not recommend
an inkjet for long listings, as the vast majority have no tractor
feed option of any kind...the Canon BJ-300 and 330 being two exceptions),
just as I would recommend a 9-pin printer over a 24-pin in certain
situations. (They key in that case being the durability of the printhead
pins moreso than the slight cost savings).

As I recall, this discussion originally stemmed from someone looking
for a printer, who had no need of color, and primarily was concerned
with text output. For that, I still stand by my recommendation of an
inkjet over a 24-pin dot matrix.


-*-

87138 3-MAY 19:08  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87107)
     From: JOHNREED     To: ISC

 > Rat Shack, and I refill my ink cartridge with Shaffer "Skrip" ink for
 > about $2 a bottle!  I can refill my cartridge between 4 or 5 times
 > with one bottle of ink.  That brings my cost per page down lower

Hey Bill, is that the original type cartridge or the new
51626 "high capacity" one?  If you are refilling the new
one, where did you drill the hole?  I have seen ads for
new type cartridges modified so they can be refilled, but
never tried them.  (I have refilled the older ones).

           ********************************
 "Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent"
                                        (Pogo)

 John R. Wainwright <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

-*-

87149 3-MAY 23:26  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87114)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MRUPGRADE

What about a Radio Shack daisy wheel printer?

-*-

87151 4-MAY 00:13  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87149)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: WA2EGP (NR)

  RE> What about a Radio Shack daisy wheel printer?
   Perhaps you're right,, theh RS daisy wheel and a 110 baud Teletype
 could be a close race.
  Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87155 4-MAY 01:55  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87138)
     From: ISC          To: JOHNREED (NR)

John,

That is the original type cartridge, but I just bought a new high-
capacity cartridge (51626A) which HAS a plastic guide hole in the
middle of the arrow on the top which MUST be a refill hole.

Bill

-*-

87156 4-MAY 02:06  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87138)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JOHNREED (NR)

I just brought a HP- cartridge system..with replacement cart...in the PRINT
HEAD CASE.......you get Print head case and FIVE cartridges for $51.00
<very nice>....one removes the cap from the cartridge,place it over the print
head ,insert the cartridge....pump button till ink shows in the cap<white pad>
remove cap,and place it in printer..............
the ink cartridge<high capacity> has a plastic piece on top with hole in it!
one,I think goes in through that........I have a color Cartridge THAT is refull
able......has full holes in top of Cartridge.......
I got the Hp stuff from SAM's Warehouse!
Dennis

-*-

87157 4-MAY 02:09  General Information
     RE: Printers (Re: Msg 87155)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: ISC (NR)

actualy it "THE" org full hole!<grin> has seal inside,look at little book
that comes with it!   " do not puncture seal as ink could come out!"
<grin>
Dennis

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87091 1-MAY 18:43  Applications (6809)
     RE: msdos (Re: Msg 87083)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: COLORSYSTEMS

I have a version of Elite*Xfer, but it only does COCO (DECB) disks. They have
a version (most likely newer than mine!!) that will read/write Os-9 as well?

-*-

87101 1-MAY 22:19  Applications (6809)
     RE: msdos (Re: Msg 87091)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DSRTFOX

 > I have a version of Elite*Xfer, but it only does COCO (DECB) disks. They
 > have a version (most likely newer than mine!!) that will read/write Os-9
 > as well?

You know, you're absolutely right! It can only read DECB disks at this time,
and I have no idea if they have any plans on adding OS9 support. I suppose
then, for OS-9 you'd also have to have the RSDos utility to transfer the OS-9
file to a DECB formatted disk first, then take that to the PC with Elite*Xfer.


 ------------------------------------
  Zack C Sessions

  "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
     we borrowed it from our descendants."           Ancient proverb


-*-

87105 2-MAY 01:58  Applications (6809)
     RE: msdos (Re: Msg 87091)
     From: JEVESTAL     To: DSRTFOX

 > I have a version of Elite*Xfer, but it only does COCO (DECB) disks. They
 > have a version (most likely newer than mine!!) that will read/write Os-9
 > as well?

I talked to Elite*Software recently and Elite*Xfer only works with
RS-DOS disks.  They don't even sell or support any software for OS-9.
They are now an MS-DOS company but still sell the old Elite* RS-DOS
stuff at about 75% of their original costs.  I would have loved to
see an OS-9 Level 2 copy of Elite*Word, but they never supported
OS-9.  They did release an OS-9 Level 1 version of Elite*Word but
it was buggy and unreliable, I actually own a copy!

Jim

======================== InfoXpress 01.01.00 OS-9/6809 ======================
       |          Narnia BBS: 24   hours   serving   CoCo   OS-9   users
   ----|----     StG network: sysop@Narnia   "Exclusively  OS-9"
       |              Delphi: JEVestal@delphi.com
 Marysville, CA     InterNet: JEVestal@narnia.wa.com
       |                or  : JEVestal@citrus.sac.ca.us
 (916)  743-2617       Voice: (916) 743-4264:1 Corinthians 1:18 & Romans 1:16
=============================================================================
    Jim Vestal: Assistant editor of The International OS-9 Underground,
              "Magazine dedicated to OS-9/OSK Users Everywhere

-*-

87106 2-MAY 02:21  Applications (6809)
     RE: msdos (Re: Msg 87079)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: NETCRUISER (NR)

there is one in the PC sig called Color.zip if I remember rightly...one of the
drives in your PC must be a 360k to use it.....Dennis

-*-

87135 3-MAY 18:43  Applications (6809)
     RE: msdos (Re: Msg 87101)
     From: CPERRAULT    To: COLORSYSTEMS

        Actually there are quite a few options for OS9. Gale Force sells
   Sdisk which comes with tools to read/write Dos disks<as well as
   RSdos>, and he also sells MSF<?> which I think it is called. It is a
   MSdos file manager you can add to the boot to make it real easy to
   read/write to dos disks. It is available for people using Sdisk.
        >Chris<

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87092 1-MAY 18:46  Applications (6809)
     RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87082)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MRUPGRADE

Terry, if you are going to stick with the CoCo, OS-9 could come in real handy,
and you'll find that the Coco has a lot of new tricks and life left in it!
I use van der Poel's OS-9 Mail List now... it handles large and small files
just fine. Definately don't want to have to switch everything over! If I were
having problems I would consider it though.
Do get me a copy for review!

-*-

87099 1-MAY 20:40  Applications (6809)
     RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87092)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: DSRTFOX

 I wish I could use theh Check portion,, now with expanded catagories,, and
tures,, it is much nicer.  But theh "Business  Pac" I use,, also
 handles my business & MI&CC from one menu.  Unfortunately there wouldn't be
 near enough who would pay for a business handler on theh CoCo.  So that part
 will never be OS.
  RE> I use BVDP OS-9 mial list....
  Yup I considered it once myself.  It is very good.
   As I say,, Home-Pac OS, has <G> theh best I've seen.
  RE> Do get me a copy for review.
  There wouldn't be much point in my giving you a copy.  Chris Dekker will
 be handeling all marketing outside "The UPGRADE".
  As foro me and OS-9,, well it does look like I'll hafta get my feet wet.
 and since Chris Dekker does such a nice "install" job on his OS programs,
 and I don't have to be a hacker to get it up and running (the way more
 software should be),,, I probably will be using some.
   Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87108 2-MAY 20:24  Applications (6809)
     RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87099)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MRUPGRADE

The business pak may do BETTER on OS-9 than DECB. Depends on the software
mix. Remember, such a pak can be used in a multi-user environment under OS-9,
allowing several people access to the same data. You could have one terminal
churning out labels while someone else on another label is printing a selected
few
of the labels, another is doing a mail-merge, etc.... all accessing the SAME
label database!

-*-

87119 2-MAY 23:11  Applications (6809)
     RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87108)
     From: JEJONES      To: DSRTFOX (NR)

 > The business pak may do BETTER on OS-9 than DECB. Depends on the software
 > mix. Remember, such a pak can be used in a multi-user environment under
 > OS-9, allowing several people access to the same data.

That's very true, though it will take some additional work to make sure
multiple users don't get in one another's way.

Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

Clipper Chip: Big Brother Inside

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87094 1-MAY 18:50  Applications (6809)
     RE: ESC/P22 code (Re: Msg 87075)
     From: JOHNREED     To: CHYDE (NR)

I never tried to compile a version of the DVI-ESC/P2
program on the COCO, but it might work.  If I remember
right, all the printer control sequences are defined
as macros in a separate header file - so even if it
comes out boo big for the COCO, it might be handy
as a starting point for someone to write a COCO driver
for the ESC/P2 printers.  As you pointed out, getting
a way to produce the DVI files on a COCO would be
quite a trick.

           ********************************
 "Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent"
                                        (Pogo)

 John R. Wainwright <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

-*-

87096 1-MAY 19:56  Programmers Den
     RE: programmers den (Re: Msg 87080)
     From: JEVESTAL     To: CEELEE (NR)

 > Help, OS9cn(tom Birt, told me that someone had offered to release the
 > source code for STG bbs (I think). I would like,along with others in the
 > OS9 Users of
 > San Diego, try porting it to os9000. also if anyone has been working on
 > graphic
 > progerxxx orxxx prog
 > ramming with OS9000 please let us know. either Myself CeeLee or OS9CN
 > Thanks.

Some of the source code is available to StG sysops.  But this is for future
CoCo development (to fix current bugs and enhance current modules), not for
cross platform developemnet.  StG version 4 will be released for OS-9000 as
soon as the OS-9 (68k) version is done.  It will also run on MS-DOS, Unix and
the CoCo according to Scott G.

Jim

======================== InfoXpress 01.01.00 OS-9/6809 ======================
       |          Narnia BBS: 24   hours   serving   CoCo   OS-9   users
   ----|----     StG network: sysop@Narnia   "Exclusively  OS-9"
       |              Delphi: JEVestal@delphi.com
 Marysville, CA     InterNet: JEVestal@narnia.wa.com
       |                or  : JEVestal@citrus.sac.ca.us
 (916)  743-2617       Voice: (916) 743-4264:1 Corinthians 1:18 & Romans 1:16
=============================================================================
    Jim Vestal: Assistant editor of The International OS-9 Underground,
              "Magazine dedicated to OS-9/OSK Users Everywhere

-*-

87097 1-MAY 20:21  General Information
     RE: Boot Problem (Re: Msg 87069)
     From: JPOTTAGE     To: ILLUSIONIST

 > DD doesnt have to be a floppy, it can be anything you wish, on my "big"
 > coco, I have 2 MFM hard drives, and a SCSI drive.. /DD is the larger
 > SCSI, and /H0 and /H1 are the 2 30 meg MFM's ...
 >
 > -* Mike
 >
Mike,
     I am sorry if there was any confusion with my statement. What I
meant is that DD must be defined as a floppy drive with some modified
versions of cc3go(or init) in order to boot on a floppy system
with no hard drive. If DD is defined as a hard drive the boot
process will look for shell, grfdrv and startup from the hard drive.
This will cause a system without a hard drive to fail in the boot
process. I realize that DD can and probably should
be defined as the hard drive if you intend on booting to a system
where the hard drive is the primary drive.
            Thanks for replying, I hope this is of use.



                                           o o
                                            U
                                           \_/
                                     / Jim Pottage \

-*-

87143 3-MAY 21:07  General Information
     RE: Boot Problem (Re: Msg 87052)
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: NEALSTEWARD (NR)

Its been too long since I ran across this to give ya the correct answer
off the top of my head but I can run it down. The KenTon SCSI system
changes some modules in your boot file beyond just adding an h0
descriptor and a driver for that HD. You could compare module idents
on your original (pre-KenTon) bootdisk and the KenTon boot and find it.
Obviously its a module that handles IO but I cant remember which and
my CoCo is at my office. I'm thinking cc3go now is the culprit. You
need the pre-KenTon version of cc3go (?) back in the boot your building
for your son.

Bests
---TedJaeger

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87103 2-MAY 00:38  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Supercomm... (Re: Msg 87085)
     From: KSCALES      To: 10BAUD (NR)

 > Not a big point, but every time I see the remark about osterm not
 > having ASCII upload, I like to point out that some kind soul created
 > "slowio" which I'm sure must be in the telcom data base here.
           <<<<<< edited for brevity >>>>>>
 > I mention it because I think that without slowio, I'd be looking for a
 > replacement for osterm which I love in every other respect.

Yes, the ASCII upload in the Level 2 version of OSTerm does not work:
from looking at the source, it appears that Vaughn probably added it
to the menu while he was working on it, but released the package before
finishing the code (and forgot to remove it from the menu).  The ASCII
upload isn't broken because of a problem with the code; it simply
doesn't work because it was never finished!  This also applies to the
MM/1 release of TasCOM.

Northern Xposure has licenced the code for development of an enhanced
version of OSTerm (OSK only).  The "prompted ASCII uploading" is fully
functional in the current development version of OSTerm 68K.

Sorry, there are no plans for releasing an enhanced 6809 version, BTW.

Regards... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

87104 2-MAY 01:33  General Information
     Think about it...
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: ALL


  If you were driving down a road at night,,,
 at the "speed of light" and
  reached down and turned on your head lights,
  "Would they work"?


  Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87121 2-MAY 23:34  General Information
     RE: Think about it... (Re: Msg 87104)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: MRUPGRADE

:) Good question. Of course they would work. The driver just wouldnt see
the light ahead of him.

                                                -* Mike

PS. the above is assuming that the cars headlights are in functioning order
in the first place. :)

-*-

87124 3-MAY 00:30  General Information
     RE: Think about it... (Re: Msg 87121)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)

  You are of course, correct.   but it does take a mo
  moments thought.   Unless of course th drive wee to look in the rear view
 mirror.   Then he could see where he's been.  Like theh <g> curve he just
 missed.

  PS: It's a Ford,, of course the lights work.

Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87131 3-MAY 03:25  General Information
     RE: Think about it... (Re: Msg 87104)
     From: PAGAN        To: MRUPGRADE

 >If you were driving down a road at night,,, at the "speed of light" and
 >reached down and turned on your head lights, "Would they work"?

 One.  There isn't enough energy available to accelerate a body with a non
 zero rest mass to light speed.  Not even if you were to convert the entire
 mass of the universe to energy.

 Two.  No matter what your velocity is relative to another body, the speed of
 light is a constant in both frames of reference.  When you did switch on
 your headlights, the beams would leave your car at the speed of light.
 Abberation would cause your view of the road ahead to be 'interesting'.
 But! the visible light photons reflected from "stationary" objects (which
 are moving at near light speed in YOUR frame of reference) would strike you
 with energies way up in the gamma range so you'd probably not live long
 enough to enjoy the view.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

87136 3-MAY 18:57  General Information
     RE: Think about it... (Re: Msg 87131)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: PAGAN

  RE There isn't enough energy... Not even in the entire universe.
  I assue Steven you are speaking of 1900 technoligy.  If you were to
 be speakinh in 1800 technoligy,, and say there in
 is no way known to store a few hundred thousand characters, in such an area
 as we now do....   for theh present technoligy you'd be right.
  But I'd be hesitant to say what is or isn't possible in th entire universe.

  as for light photons,, reflecting and so forth...  Why muddle a situation
 by <g> bring in facts.  That only leads otoo confusion.
  Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87137 3-MAY 19:08  General Information
     RE: Think about it... (Re: Msg 87104)
     From: JOHNREED     To: MRUPGRADE

 >   If you were driving down a road at night,,,
 >  at the "speed of light" and
 >   reached down and turned on your head lights,
 >   "Would they work"?
 >
 >   Til then,,, Terry Simons
 >

Yep!  And the beam would leave the car at the "speed of light"
..... relative to YOU of course.

"relative" is the key word -- that's what old Al was talking
about.
           ********************************
 "Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent"
                                        (Pogo)

 John R. Wainwright <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

-*-

87148 3-MAY 23:24  General Information
     RE: Think about it... (Re: Msg 87104)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MRUPGRADE

Yes, but they'd probably fry anybody standing in front of you (grin).

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87112 2-MAY 20:38  Telecom (6809)
     RE: RiBBS (Re: Msg 87073)
     From: DENNYWRIGHT  To: STEWARD

xmode is as follows:
nam=T2 mgr=SCF ddr=SACIA hpn=07 hpa=FF68 upc=00 bso=01
dlo=00 eko=01 alf=01 nul=00 pau=00 pag=18 bsp=08 del=18
eor=0D eof=1B rpr=09 dup=19 psc=17 int=03 qut=05 bse=08
ovf=07 par=02 bau=04 xon=11 xof=13 col=50 row=18 xtp=85
wnd=85 val= sty= cpx= cpy= fgc= bgc= bdc=


-*-

87117 2-MAY 22:36  Telecom (6809)
     RE: RiBBS (Re: Msg 87112)
     From: STEWARD      To: DENNYWRIGHT (NR)

  Tell your friend to try a XTP=4 and see if that helps any.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87113 2-MAY 21:40  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Loading SC to another window (Re: Msg 87054)
     From: CHARLESAM    To: COLORSYSTEMS

I tried that with no success. I've given up on loading SC at startup. It
would have been nice to have supercomm ready and waiting but it ain't
worth the hussle and crashes trying to do it. Thanx anyway! Charlie

-*-

87120 2-MAY 23:20  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Loading SC to another window (Re: Msg 87049)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: CHARLESAM

Hmmm, I've never had a problem like that. In my startup, I have:

  load sc23d8
  supercomm #24K /t3 <>>>/w&

 You would, of course, replace "sc23d8" with whatever your supercomm file
name is. Also, make sure you have device "W" in the bootlist, and use it.
in your example, you had a hard coded window (w1). If this window was
initialized first, weird things can happen.

   Randy

-*-

87123 3-MAY 00:19  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Loading SC to another window (Re: Msg 87120)
     From: CHARLESAM    To: RANDYKWILSON

Thanx Randy, thats more info then I had till now. I never use /W.
I start with /W1 and load to /W5. Its in my bootlist though. I'll give this
a go and I'm sure(99&44% sure) it will do the trick. When it comes to SC,
no one helps out more then you.
   I have a question that you might know something about. When you alter
your bootfile with native Pboost, do you change REL and OS9p1? If so,
then that explains why I can't boot from HD anymore. I have a 65meg,
RGB-DOS system with scsi interface like Neal discribed. I used the RGB
mods that came with the system to make a boot but it won't boot from
the HD anymore. My problem is the opposite of Neal's troubles. Mine
starts from HD, but it quickly switches to /d0 to load. I can live with it
but I'd like to know how come this happens. Thanx again for your help.
Charlie      PS Will you be in Chicago for the Fest?

-*-

87153 4-MAY 00:38  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Loading SC to another window (Re: Msg 87123)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: CHARLESAM (NR)

Charlie,

   yep, PBoost modifies OS9P1, REL, and Boot. Your problem is most likely the
boot module; you're back to one that looks at the floppy. I do not know if
the RGB boot module will work under native unmodified or not. The old try it
and see may be dangerous to the hard drive.

  Bug me about this in a few weeks (after the fest), when I have a bit more
time to ponder and tinker.


   Randy

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87122 3-MAY 00:11  General Information
     RE: OS9000 (Re: Msg 87029)
     From: CPERRAULT    To: DPHILIPSEN (NR)

        Have you contacted the regional representive for Microware? Btw,
   I'm not sure if there is yet an assembler available for OS9000 or not.
   Boisy or James may probably know for sure. I'm not sure about the
   drivers but, I would imagine information on that would be available in
   one of the professional OS9 books, like Starting OS9 or OS9 Insights,
   but I haven't seen these books yet. Again, someone else would know
   better than I, but that seems like a good place to look.
        Btw, there is a series of articles in the OS9 Underground
   regarding writing Device drivers.
        >Chris<

-*-

87125 3-MAY 02:03  Telecom (6809)
     Windows
     From: CHARLESAM    To: RANDYKWILSON

Randy, can /w be created? Or does it just have to be in memory? I tried to
open /w with no success. Yet the same commands work fine on other windows.
Here is what I tried;
 iniz /w;wcreate /w -s=02 00 00 80 24 00 09 09;shell i=/w&
The above doesn't work, the window gets created but the shell doesn't fork.
If I sub /w1, it works fine. Forgive me, I'm dumb about these things.
In the meantime, I'll try running SC in /W1 from startup. Charlie

-*-

87127 3-MAY 02:38  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87125)
     From: MITHELEN     To: CHARLESAM

Why not just do a :
supercomm <>>>/w& in your startup file, I believe supercomm sets up its
own window parameters. /w is the "generic" window descriptor, and tells
the system to use the next available window.
--
Paul
P.S iniz'ing windows is an ugly thing to do...

-*-

87145 3-MAY 22:12  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87127)
     From: CHARLESAM    To: MITHELEN

Thanx Paul, that explains alot. Instead of assigning specific windows, I
just assign W and let the file use the next avail. window. Do I have to iniz.
those windows or just W?
Charlie

-*-

87146 3-MAY 22:31  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87145)
     From: MITHELEN     To: CHARLESAM

You really don't need to iniz windows at all.

-*-

87152 4-MAY 00:34  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87146)
     From: CHARLESAM    To: MITHELEN

If you say so Paul. I'm just following the manual (Rainbow). I suppose
I'll get it down sooner or later. The good news is I have my startup
configured to load SC, Dynastar, Presto Partner, along with term and one
text window. It even puts the PAGAN logo (altered a little) on the term
screen. Of course, with only 512k, I don't have much memory left. But
then I'm going to the Fest so I'll maybe fix that. I even have enuf
system memory to format a disk. I started late learning but I'm picking
up something new everyday. I might even be happy now for a week before
I try to alter things again. NO! A week is too long...maybe two days.
I didn't know what you meant by 'initializing all those windows'. Till
now I never had to deal with it. Willfo sent me his 'make#' utils for
creating windows several years ago when I started trying to get into
OS9. I couldn't use that for loading SC and Dynastar. So now I can
make my own with a little trail and error. Thanx for the tipoff, you
must have gotten a little chuckle from that (along with everyone else
here). Thats not my first goofup and it certainly won't be my last.
Someday I'll tell the story of how I ruined a Coco3 removing the
gime chip..... Later Charlie

-*-

87154 4-MAY 00:47  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87152)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: CHARLESAM (NR)

Paul is absolutely correct. Do not iniz windows unless it's absolutely
needed, such as for wcreate (I don;t use wcreate for this reason). In the
old Level 1 days, it was a good idea to iniz all devices to be used, due to
memory frag reasons. With Level 2, this reason is gone, and the "W" descriptor
makes inizing unwanted. "W" is not a window device. It is a psuedo device that
tells the system to find the next unused (un-inized) window device, and use
that. If all the windows are pre-inized, it will bomb out.

 In the case of something like:
   iniz /w
   wcreate /w etc etc etc
   shell i=/w&

 The system will find an uninized window to use with the first line, which inizs

it. Then, for the second line, it will have to find another unused window. Can't

use the first one... it's now inized. Same thing for the third line. The system
seeks out a new window for the shell to use, which won't be either of the first
two.


   Confused yet  (I shouldn't answer realtime online after midnight :)


   Randy

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87128 3-MAY 02:52  General Information
     RE: classifieds (Re: Msg 87048)
     From: DGANTZ       To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)

Thanx for letting me know.  I'm getting tired of chaseing down bad leads
on equipment and software.  Perhaps those that post classifieds could also
post a classified when equipment/software is sold.  There must be a better
way than to let other users chase empty leads because something has been sold.

Thanx again,
                Dave

-*-

87130 3-MAY 03:03  General Information
     RE: classifieds (Re: Msg 87053)
     From: DGANTZ       To: MRUPGRADE

I seem to run up against the barn doors swinging quite often.  I check out
the most recent classifieds and work my way back to about three months back
if the classifieds are sparse.  I agree with you.  We need better maintainence
of the classfieds and the people placing them need to take greater
responsibility for them.  They need to tell us when an item or items are
sold by the same means as they used to sell them, rather than leave us to
pay on a "dead horse".  Anyway sounds like we're on the same sheet of music
as they say.  Take care, and I appreciate your response.

                     Dave
                     DGANTZ on Delphi
                     DGANTZ@Delphi.com
                     (I don't check often anymore but
                      I can be reached through FidoNet
                      on the OS9 echo.)

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87129 3-MAY 02:59  Telecom (6809)
     Printer baud rate
     From: ISC          To: ALL

My printer works well at 9600 baud from the bit banger port.  Why won't it
work at 19,200?  Port speed?  I get an error 203 - illegal mode.

Dumb question?

Bill

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87139 3-MAY 19:11  General Information
     COCO Fest Airport Ride
     From: DISTO        To: ALL

I will be arriving at O'Hare at about 9:00 AM on Sat May 21. Anyone want to
share a ride to the COCO Fest at about that time? Is anyone going to the COCO
FEST? -Tony.

-*-

87142 3-MAY 20:25  General Information
     RE: COCO Fest Airport Ride (Re: Msg 87139)
     From: DOCBEAR      To: DISTO (NR)

Unfortunately, I won't be going to CocoFest in Chicago, but it is good
to hear from you.  I do have on brief ?? for you however. Quite a while
ago I bought one of the early 1 Meg setups.  It still works, and I have
put a lot of my patches on Delphi.  I heard about a 2 meg setup you
built using SIMMs.  Are any of these still around and will they work
with the original 1 Meg address board.  I remember that the original
1 Meg could be piggy backed into 4 layers of 512K to give 2 M and the
additional line was even provided on the original address board.

Thanks, and good luck on your trip...

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87140 3-MAY 19:29  General Information
     Disto 4n1 clock driver
     From: NEATKID      To: ALL

I wonder if somebody can help me out here...

    About a year ago I bought a Disto SC-2 with the 4n1 board. The problem
is that the guy I bought it from neglected to send me the OS9 drivers for the
4n1 board.  I did find a clock driver, but NitrOS9 won't patch it. This is
the clock driver that is IRQ hacked, and I beleive in the database here.

    At any rate, does someone have the original Disto driver, or know of
a patch to the IRQ hacked drivers? My system is set up for slot 4, 60 hz,
for the 4-n-1 board.

    Thanks,
     Nick

-*-

87141 3-MAY 20:19  General Information
     RE: Disto 4n1 clock driver (Re: Msg 87140)
     From: DOCBEAR      To: NEATKID (NR)


I have the  drivers to most of the Disto hardware.  If you can get Tony
D. [DISTO] to grant me permission to send the drivers to you I will.
However, it is up to you to contact Tony and have him send me a message
allowing me to do so.

-*-

87150 3-MAY 23:54  General Information
     RE: Disto 4n1 clock driver (Re: Msg 87140)
     From: WDTV5        To: NEATKID (NR)

Howdy, I'm Gene Heskett, and I just uploaded the exact native mode clock
you need. At the moment its the 2nd or 3rd item down in "dat new". You
won't need to patch it as its already been "Nitros-9'd". It should also
work with the pboosted systems, but its time getter IS specific to the
SC-II+4n1 clock in slot 4. Slot patch instructs remain the same tho, so
you can use it in any slot or no slot (no mpi). Cheers, Nick

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87158 4-MAY 04:24  General Information
     keyboard
     From: LARRYOLSON   To: MROWEN01

Mike,
   I got the keyboard tonight. I work nights but it was in the mail box
when I got home at 12:30.
   I've got it all remapped for you, but it is now 4:07 am, so I want to
wait till tomorrow night and check it completely for any errors.
   I also forgot to ask you what you wanted done with the CAPS key.
   I can remap it to parallel any other key. I might suggest remapping it
to parallel the ALT key. As you know, the 4/p didn't have an ALT key, so
I mapped the F3 key as the ALT key. The only problem with using the F3 key
is that it is way over at the top right of the keyboard while the CAPS key
is closer to the middle.
   Another option is that since line 8 on the connector is not being used
now, this line could be connected to the CAPS key, with the other side of
the CAPS switch going to ground. This could be used to control whatever
you would like.

  Larry

-*-


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