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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
NUMBER OF LINES: 629 
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 *********************** REMOVED: 4 NOV 83 ***************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ==============================================
24 
25 God is Holy,
26 Man is Not,
27 Man made whiskey,
28 God made pot.!
29 
30 
31 
32 RE: THE BIT ABOUT DESIGN BEING APPARENT IN THE WORLD, IT IS INTERESTING TO
33 NOTE THAT MANY MORE PROGRAMMERS AND ENGINEERS THAN SCIENTISTS ARE RELIGIOUS.
34 I'M AFRAID I MUST ADMIT (BEING ONE OF THE PROGRAMMERS) THAT THIS FORMER
35 GROUP HAS A CERTAIN SORT OF STRAIGHT LINE MENTALITY. WHENEVER CREATIONISTS
36 TROT OUT A PET 'SCIENTIST' TO SUPPORT THEIR VEIWS, HE MOST OFTEN TURNS
37 OUT ACTUALLY TO BE AN ENGINEER, AN ADMINISTRATOR AT A UNIVERSITY, A FAKE,
38 OR A FAILED SCIENTIST. ENGINEERS AND PROGRAMMERS THINK IN TERMS OF DESIGN
39 WHEN IT COMES TO ALMOST ANYTHING.
40    THE FACT THAT SOMETHING HAS AN INTRICATE INTERNAL MAKEUP PROVES NOTHING
41 AT ALL. THIS ARGUMENT IS STRICTLY NON SEQUITER. THIS PARTICULAR TRAIN
42 OF THOUGHT HAS BEEN DISSEMINATED FROM THE TOP OF THE MORAL MAJORITY 
43 PYRAMID, SO I ASSUME THAT FALWELL ET AL HAVE GREAT HOPE FOR IT. WE ASSUME
44 THAT ALL THINGS HAVE BOTH COMPLEX AND SIMPLE ASPECTS...
45    IT IS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THAT THE CREATIONISTS CAN'T IMAGINE
46 ANY OTHER WAY FOR THINGS TO HAVE COME ABOUT THAN THE WAY THEY ARE ALREADY
47 BAISED TOWARDS. BUT THATS NOT THE SOLUTION, THATS THE PROBLEM.
48    ANYWAY, D AND DEB ARE BOTH IGNORING WHAT I CHALLENGED THEM WITH BEFORE:
49 THAT EVOLUTION OF THESE COMPLEX CREATURES IS NOT IN DOUBT - BECAUSE IT
50 GOES ON RIGHT NOW, EVERY MINUTE. WE CAN SEE IT HAPPENING IN REAL TIME
51 EXPERIMENTS. WE GIVE A COLONY A STIMULUS OR VECTOR AND THE COLONY OF
52 ORGANISMS SHIFTS IN IT'S CHARACTERISTICS. DARWIN, ET AL DID NOT COME
53 UP WITH THEIR THEORIES SOLELY FROM FOSSILS - THE MOST PERSUASIVE EVIDENCE
54 CAME FROM LIVING CREATURES. 
55 
56 D AND DEB: I WOULD LIKE TO ESTABLISH SOMETHING. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE
57 OTHER MAJOR RELIGIONS OF THE WORLD ARE EQUALLY AVALID AS THE CHRISTIAN
58 RELIGION YOU YOURSELVES ESPOUSE? IF NOT, EXPLAIN TO US WHY YOU THINK 
59 CHRISTIANITY IS BETTER. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF I SHOULD ARGUE AGAINST
60 RELIGION IN THE ABSTRACT, OR JUST THE TENENTS OF YOUR PARTICULAR
61 RELIGION, OR IF YOU ARE MEMBERS OF SOME GROUP OR CULT THAT IS NOT MAIN
62 LINE CHRISTIANITY WHICH ONE. ALSO, COULD YOU TELL US WHICH VERSION OF
63 THE BIBLE YOU WILL BE USING. I WAS UNABLE TO FIND THE WORD EMBRYO IN
64 THE VERSION I'M USING. OR DO YOU REGARD ALL VERSIONS AS EQUALLY VALID.
65 
66 NOT, I SHOULD SAY, THAT I THINK WE SHOULD REFER TO THE 'GOOD BOOK' AS
67 THE MAIN SOURCE OF EVIDENCE FOR OR AGAINST - THAT WOULD REDUCE US TO
68 PROOF BY 'REDUCTIO AD ABSURBAM' - THE EXAMINATION OF CONTRADICTIONS.
69 CHRISTIANS ALWAYS RESOLVE THESE IN THE END BY REWRITING THE 'WORD OF
70 GOD' INTO A MORE 'CORRECT' AND 'MODERN' TRANSLATION WHEN THEY CAN'T JUST
71 BE IGNORED. NOT THAT A PERFECTLY CONSISTENT BIBLE SHOULD BE THE
72 PROOF OF CHRISTIANITY BEING CORRECT. THERE ARE OTHER RELIGIONS THAT
73 ARE MUCH MORE CONSISTENT INTERNALLY, BUT I SUSPECT THAT D AND DEB
74 WOULD REJECT THEIR CLAIMS.
75 
76 SOMEBODY UP THERE USED THE PHRASE 'CROSS-EXAMINE'. WOULD ONE OR THE OTHER
77 OF YOU BE MORE COMFORTABLE CRITICIZING THE SCIENTIFIC VIEW THAN
78 DEFENDING THE (MORMON, METHODISTS, CHURCH OF THE FOUR SQUARE BOOK OF CHRIST,
79 CATHOLIC, JEWISH OR WHATEVER) POINT OF VEIW? HOW ABOUT IF ONE OF YOU DOES
80 ONE AND THE OTHER THE OTHER? OR SOME SUCH. *BOTH* POINTS OF VEIW SHOULD BE
81 BOTH PROPOSED AND DEFENDED, AS THE POSITION OF CRITIC IS MUCH TOO EASY 
82 TO GET AWAY WITH INTELLECTUALLY
83 
84 AARON: THERE ARE A LOT OF DEAD HEADS IN THE WORLD, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM HAVE
85 LOW IQ'S. MOST PEOPLE WITH HIGH IQ'S, REMEMBER, NEVER DO ANYTHING PARTICUL-
86 ARLY WORTHWILE IN THE LARGE SENSE. ALSO, I *DO* BELIEVE THAT LOTS OF PEOPLE
87 SPEND BIG BUCKS FOR MINOR AMUSEMENTS. FOR INSTANCE,A HALLOWEEN PARTY I WAS
88 AT LAST NIGHT HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT MICROWAVE OVENS. MOST PEOPLE THERE
89 CONFESSED THAT THEY RARELY USED THEIRS FOR ANYTHING BUT HEATING COFFEE AND
90 PASTRY. THESE THINGS COST UP TO $2,000. I THINK THAT PEOPLE SPEND THEIR
91 MONEY ON WHATYEVERS POPULAR, USUALLY, AND RIGHT NOW COMPUTERS ARE POPULAR.
92 SO IN ADDITION TO DEFENDING MY POSITION THAT THE PEOPLE WHO DIAL UP THESE
93 BBS'S (GOOD ABBREV!) NOT NECESSARILY BEING ALL ELIGIBLE FOR MENSA, I WILL
94 ADD ANOTHER: BEING REALLY SMART IQ WISE PROBABLY DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE
95 THAT MUCH SMARTER THAN PEOPLE THAN COMPLETELY AVERAGE PEOPLE. TOO MANY
96 OTHER FACTORS DETERMINE WHO IS REALLY 'SMART'. THESE INCLUDE QUALITIES
97 LIKE DETERMINATION, LEADERSHIP, SENSE OF PURPOSE, WISDOM, EXPERIENCE,
98 QUALITY OF GOALS,AND A NUMBER OF OTHERS. I ARGUE THAT THESE ALL CAN BE
99 MORE IMPORTANT THAN I.Q. IN DETERMINING A PERSONS FATE OR THEIR VALUE TO
100 SOCIETY. REMEMBER THAT EINSTEIN WOULD *NOT* HAVE QUALIFIED FOR MENSA - 
101 HIS I.Q. WAS NOT IN THE TOP TWO PERCENT. ALSO REMEMBER THAT I.Q. TESTS
102 ONLY TEST A FEW (ALBEIT VERY IMPORTANT) SKILLS. NEW VERSIONS OF INTELLI-
103 GENCE TESTS JUST COMING OUT TEST OVER A HUNDRED DIFFERENT SKILLS, INCLUDING
104 THINGS LIKE THE ABILITY TO RAPIDLY ASSESS A GIVEN SOCIAL SITUATION FOR
105 THE SUBTLE NUANCES IN IT (SOMETHING MEN ARE OFTEN BAD AT - REMEMBER MEN
106 DESIGNED THE OLD I.Q. TESTS) AND OTHER IMPORTANT BUT HITHERTO NEGLECTED
107 ABILITIES LIKE THE ABILITY TO DRAW OR DO MUSIC OR UNDERSTAND MOTIVATION.
108 A NUMBER OF THESE ARE ABILITIES THAT TECHNO-NERDS ARE INFAMOUS FOR BEING
109 NO GOOD AT. AND THESE ABILITIES ARE MUCH MORE RELEVANT TO ONES QUALIFICA-
110 ]TIONS FOR COMMENTING ON POLITICS OR MORALS THAN SPATIAL RECONITION
111 SKILLS, OR CALCULUS. 
112   SO WATCH OUT, CAUSE THE 'TOP 10 PERCENT' IS LIKELY TO BE REDEFINED ANY
113 TIME. AND IT WILL BE THE RARE EXCEPTION AMONG THE CURRENT WINNERS OF THE
114 HIGH IQ SWEEPSTAKES WHO DOESN'T LOSE SOME OF HIS OR HER SUPPOSED EDGE.
115 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE MODEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
116 P.S. THE WORD FOR HE AND SHE, SINGULAR OR PLURAL, IS KOIE IN CANTONESE.
117 WONDER WHY WE CAN'T COME UP WITH ONE LIKE THAT, OR JUST START USING THE
118 WORD 'THEY' LIKE MOST OF US WANT TO - A WORD WITH NO SEXUAL OR NUMERIC
119 BIAS INDICATING SOME SIZE GROUP OR SET OF PEOPLE, SPECIFICATION NOT 
120 NECESSARY?
121 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
122 
123 *****************************************************************
124      I must say,  I am confused at the tone you have taken on the 
125 backups.  After  screaming  to have them,  now you are  screaming 
126 foul.  What  do  you want?!  I am supplying the  backups  via  my 
127 company  (U.S.  DIGITAL) as a service,  not to make  profit.  The 
128 prices were calculated to only recover the cost of the work,  not 
129 to make a profit.  They are set at the 'Break even point'. If you 
130 feel  very  strongly about this then I will remove the disks  and 
131 not  offer  them  for sale or otherwise.  But as  I  said,  I  am 
132 confused at your reaction to this.  As for the aspect of who owns 
133 rights excetera,  I might point out that these messages were left 
134 on a 'public' BBS,  and as such are public property. Meaning that 
135 anyone can read and or redistribute these scrawings as they wish. 
136 Not just me!  Sigh....  Try to do something nice and this is  the 
137 thanks I get.....
138 ****** A very confused and frustrated CISTOP MIKEY **************
139 ********************* 30 oct 83 *** 10:00PM *********************
140 As a result of this I am withdrawing the archives until you decide
141 What it is that you really want.
142 *****************************************************************
143 
144      So that you won't think that Americans are the only ones who 
145 are  crazy,  here  are some excepts from British  auto  collision 
146 reports.
147 
148      The accident was due to the other man's narrowly missing me.
149 
150      I  collided with a stationary trolley coming in the opposite 
151 direction.
152 
153      In order to avoid a collision, I ran into the other car.
154 
155      The  other car collided with me without even warning  me  of 
156 his intention.
157 
158      There were plenty of onlookers but no witnesses.
159 
160      The water in my radiator accidentally froze at midnight.
161 
162      My  car  had  to turn very sharply because of  an  invisible 
163 truck.
164 
165      I  was just in the act of scraping my nearside on  the  curb 
166 when the accident happened.
167 
168      I collided with a stationary tree.  There was no damage done 
169 to the tree as the gatepost will testify.
170 
171      The accident was entirely due to the road bending.
172 
173      The witness gave his occupation as that of a gentleman,  but 
174 it   actually  would  be  more  correct  to  call  him  a  garage 
175 proprietor.
176 
177      The other man changed his mind, and I had to run into him.
178 
179      One wheel went into the ditch.  My foot jumped from brake to 
180 accelerator, leaped across the road to the other side, and jumped 
181 into the trunk of a tree.
182 
183      I  remember  nothing after passing the Crown Hotel  until  I 
184 came to and saw police officer Brown.
185 
186      A bull was standing nearby annd a fly must have tickled him, 
187 because he gored my car.
188 
189      A  cow wandered into my car.  I was later informed that  the 
190 unfortunate cow was half-witted.
191 
192      She suddenly saw me, lost her head, and we met.
193 
194      If  the other driver had stopped a few yards behind  himself 
195 it certainly would not have happened.
196 
197      I  was  taking a friend home and  following  the  lampposts, 
198 which were in a straight line.  Unfortunately there was a bend in 
199 the  road bringing the right-hand lamppost in line with the left, 
200 so of course I landed in a ditch.
201      
202      I bumped into a lamppost that was obscured by human beings.
203 
204      I  heard a horn blow and was struck violently in  the  back. 
205 Evidently a lady was trying to pass me.
206 
207      I misjudged a lady crossing the street.
208 
209      Coming  home I drove into the wrong house and then  collided 
210 with a tree I haven't got.
211 
212      Three  women  were  talking to one  another,  and  when  one 
213 stepped forward, I had to have an accident.
214 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
215 Didja hear about the poor family?  Scraped for six months to buy the
216 cheapest of home computers...and then it went condo.    Yowza, yowza.
217 MIKEY! MIKEY! PLEASE OFFER THE DISKS, PAPER COPIES ETC. I HAVE BEEN WAITING
218 FOR MONTH FOR SOME WAY OTHER THAN COPYINGTO MY PRINTER.
219 HALF THE TIME I MISS A DISK OR TWO AND DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON
220 JUST LIKE NOW, WHO HAD THE NERVE TO COMPLAIN? IF THERE IS ANY ONE THAT DOES 
221 NOT LIKE THE IDEA THEN THAYTS THEIR PROBLEM. IT'S A FREE COUNTRY AND I FOR 
222 ONE WANT MY RIGHT TO BUY THE PAPER COPIES.!!!!!
223 
224 #################C.Y.M##############################10/31 12:14AM###########
225 
226 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
227 MIKEY, DID I MISS SOMETHING?  THOUGH I DON'T SEE ANYTHING ON THIS (OR
228 THE LAST) DISK ABOUT THE BW RELEASE, I KNOW YOU WERE HOPING TO DO SO.  
229 NOW I SEE THAT SOMEONE (WHERE OR HOW I DON'T KNOW) HAS DUMPED ON YOU 
230 ABOUT IT.  EITHER IT WAS ELIMINATED FROM THE DISK, OR IT WAS SAID TO YOU
231 THROUGH SOME OTHER MEDIUM.  I DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS SAID, BUT POINT ME TO
232 'EM AND I'LL PUNCH 'EM IN THE KNEECAP!!                                       
233 TO WHOMEVER: MIKEY PROVIDES US WITH THIS FORUM AT HIS EXPENSE, FOR OUR
234 USE HOWEVER WE PREFER (CERTAIN LEVELS OF DECORUM NOTWITHSTANDING).
235 ANYTHING PLACED HEREIN IS HIS TO DO WITH AS HE SEES FIT, AND I THINK
236 THAT EVERYONE KNOWS IT.  IF YOU WRITE ON THE WALLS OF A PUBLIC FORUM, 
237 YOU CERTAINLY CAN'T EXPECT YOUR WORDS TO FOREVER REMAIN PRIVATE PROPERTY.
238 I WAS LOOKING FORWARD TO THE RELEASES, AND OBVIOUSLY CYM WAS TOO.  I 
239 ALWAYS ATTEMPT TO REACT TO SUBJECTS IN AS OBJECTIVE A MANNER AS POSSIBLE,
240 BUT SEEING THE OFFENDED TONE IN MIKEY'S LAST MESSAGE HAS RAISED MY IRE.
241 IN OTHER WORDS............              BACK OFF!!!!!!!!!
242                                                                          
243 d, YOUR LAST MESSAGE WAS BEAUTIFUL!!  I WOULD LOVE TO COMMENT ON IT,
244 BUT RIGHT NOW, I SEETHE OVER THE OBVIOUSLY NOXIOUS REACTION TO THE FAVOR
245 OUR GRACIOUS HOST ATTEMPTED TO GIVE US.  AS I KNOW THAT I DON'T WRITE 
246 LOGICALLY WHEN I'M IN THIS STATE, I'LL WAIT UNTIL A LATER TIME TO
247 COMMENT.  GROWL....                                                      
248                                                                          
249 [][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][][]
250 
251 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
252 
253 pam/cym:
254     $13 per printed unit (1 8 inch disk), 12 units availiable, each
255  unit covered approx 5 BW "disks"......the actual disk (for CP/M 
256  people ) are/were availiable at $10 each (same number avail, same 
257  content)...total collection $120 for disk, $156 for paper
258      VISA and MC , of course...
259 add: i think it was 12, may have been 13....
260       the disks i refer to at $10 each had the data on them ; this
261       isn't the "new" cost..
262      each disk prob holds approx 300k bytes of data, at approx 1000
263      char/page that would be 300 pages of output, considering ribbon
264      and paper and print head costs $13 might be a little on the 
265      low side....prob the better deal,,,,few can read the cp/m anyway....
266 
267 who knows? maybe some "soothing tones" are just what mike needs 
268 right now...    anyone out there good at soothing?
269                                                          Aaron
270 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>(2:35)<><><><><><><>
271 D:
272 RE my reluctance to expose my views (cont.)
273 --do you see some of the problem?  I find that my belief system is quite
274 complex and somewhat inconsistent, although quite worn and comfortable.
275 I can give most adherents to most religions a sympathetic ear, although
276 I will not accept another set of beliefs.  I consider myself quite religious
277 and (mostly) non christian for example.  I accept the existance of a creator
278 or PRIME CAUSE, but find it hard to limit him/her/it to humanly 
279 comprehensible stature as most christians seem to insist on doing.  I
280 consider the old testament a unique tribal record of the Jewish people,
281 whose accuracy was preserved by the custom of stoning to death one who
282 changed any portion of the sacred book.  This has mostly preserved the 
283 original words.  Unfortunately, our present cultures do not accord this
284 protection to other sacred writings, so the new testemant, koran, book of
285 morman, bahgvad ghita, etc. are all suspect to some degree.
286   I consider christ to be a great teacher, on par with budda, mohammed
287 and many others.  I will accept that christ is the "son of "god"", but not
288 as a particular distinction -- we are all children of the infinite, and
289 you yourself are quite as holy as any of the religious teachers of the past.
290 With that rather opinionated pronouncement, i should also point out that
291 i am quite likely wrong in most if not all of my beliefs.  However, they
292 have served well, fit comfortably, and are large enough to comfort me when
293 the weather turns cold.
294 ----------------Dusty-----------------------------------------------------
295 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]    0734    Halloween    [][][][][][][][][]
296 
297 Mikey-  I am very interested in the archives as well.  I think that the
298         prices quoted by Aaron are quite reasonable, and I am more than
299         willing to pay that amount.  I will start saving today.  Is 
300         there a chance of buying the paper copies in two parts ?  That
301         might make it easier for some of the less affluent. (Read "more
302         in debt to outside creditors")  Thanks.
303 
304 D: Very well put.  I am an agnostic, so will not participate, but I am
305    very interested in the discussion.  Something is missing in my life
306    at least, and it may be religion, it may be drugs.  I don't know. 
307    Keep it going.
308 
309 ?: It may be true that the problem is mostly economic, but what is the
310    solution ?  If we stop paying the farmers to let fields lie fallow,
311    market prices will drop, farmers will go broke, and no one eats.  
312    If we send the surplus to third world countries, then the balance of
313    trade figures go crazy.  Again, at a later date, no one eats.
314    Where do we make the tradeoffs ?
315    In the United States, there is often criticism of emerging nations
316    about distribution of wealth.  The haves get more, the have nots 
317    don't.  This may seem harsh, but in reality it is best for that
318    nation.  It takes large amounts of capitol to accomplish the build-
319    ing of new industries, and keeping the new money in the hands of 
320    a few is the only way to accomplish this.  Unpopular position I 
321    realize, but true.  Some people must go hungry for the good of the
322    rest.  Easy for me to say, I am told, but if it were me ...
323    Yes, I would yell the loudest, I am sure.  But that would not make
324    right.
325 
326 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   djj   [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
327 
328 ***************************************************
329 Don't bother me, I'm sulking.....
330 ******************** CISTOP MIKEY ******************************
331 P.S. 12 disks $9.95 ea paper $12.95 ea 200K-240K ea per disk
332 aprox 50pages paper.
333 (After the 4th complaint I decided to remove all comments
334 and offering until things quieted down a bit and all could
335 come to some kind of consensis. I had one outright threat
336 sigh... anyway, one possiblity is that if we can get the
337 volume up enough, I can probably get the price down further.
338 How much depends on the number of orders. particularly the 
339 paper since I can go to offset printing which would be cheaper
340 if I can get a min of 10 orders per. This would bring it down to
341 about $9 per. Same with disks, about $7 per in quantiy 10.
342 Another thing that can be done is to do the work on low end
343 priority meaning it could be anywheres from a couple of days to 
344 a couple of months to get done. But this way it would not take
345 time away from other money making projects, and thus could 
346 be done for esentially no labour costs. I would have to recalculate
347 this to find out exactly what the cost would be. Any thoughts?
348 ************ CISTOP MIKEY *************************************
349 P.S. Aaron, no, the threat was not from you. (But alas, I think
350 your message may have started the whole mess. Sigh, what a bunch
351 of loonies.)
352 ***************************************************************
353 P.P.S. My thanks to those of you who have expressed your heartfelt
354 feelings.
355 ******************************************************************
356 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
357 
358      sigh... (heartfelt)
359   My apologies, Mike. I didn't see the additional complaints roused by my
360 comments, but I can certainly see how they might have come about, con-
361 sidering some of the more erratic factions out there. And my own rather 
363 perverse sense of black humor. sigh....
364 
365 if you decide to go offset on the printing; i would order the set....
366 (read "order" as "be able to afford, and order" )
367   dl:    I am agnostic; and highly religous. (in reference to one of your
368        more recent texts, you mentioned that my own "stand" as to what
369        I am was rather unclear..)
370 
371   Larry:
372          It seems you have been vindicated from the heinous crime of
373        text killing. good job, eh?   let's get some back bacon.
374 
375   all:
376          My pending arrangment for house-sharing abruptly fell through.
377        Does anyone out there have any leads as to where I can find person(s)
378        looking for a house mate? More concisely, I NEED SOMEPLACE TO RENT.
379 
380                                                      Aaron
381 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
382 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
383 What reasons were given for complaining about Mikey's offer-
384 ing the archives? Of all the stupidest things I've ever,
385 I've never heard of someone complaining about a service
386 someone is offering when that person doesn't even have to
387 offer the service in the first place! I wouldn't complain
388 about ANYTHING, if I were you, whoever you are! Stupid...
389 stupid...stupid...
390 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
391 #########################################
392 I SUGEEST WE ALL KEEP AN AN EYE ON THE BOARD TO SEE WHO'S MISSING, MAYBE
393 THAT WILL TELL US WHO HAD THE GALL TO THREATEN OUR BELOVED MIKEY. AS FAR
394 AS I AM CONCERNED WHOEVER IT WAS SHOULD BE PERSONA-N0N-GRATIA AROUBND HERE
395 G
396 FROM NOW ON. I KNOW IT WASN'T AARON AS HIS COMMENT OBVIOUSLY WAS IN JEST O
397 AND I FAIL  TO SEE HOW ANYONE COULD HAVE TAKEN HIM SERIOUSLY:
398 
399 ################C.Y.M.#################################10/31 4:22PM#########
400 
401 A
402 P.S. AARON: CHECK WITH TOM MATHAE ON BIT BUCKET, HE HAD A HOUSE FOR RENT NOT
403 LONG AGO, MAY STILL HAVE SOMETHING AS I THINK HE HAS SEVERAL.
404 #################C.Y.M.#################
405 Hrothgar:
406 You hit the nail on the head about Bible literalisms.  A week or so ago in
407 Time magazine there was an article concerning a new revision of the Bible to neutralize the 'sexist' references.
408 I.E. our 'Father who are in Heaven.......'    I am essentially atheist, but this is STUPID.  After all, for the last 1000
409 years or so, the Bible as such was  acceptable and uncriticized.  (comparatively).  Now, because of some 'modern 
410 reinterpretation' they have decided to change it.  I believe that if you consider yourself a member of a religion, you should
411 accept ALL its tenets, no matter what.  After all, once the typical member starts to pick and choose, the religion 
412 disintegrates into what would be more accurately described as a political party.
413 Religionists can't have it both ways:  Either they should accept their teachings as literally true without 
414 interpretations, or accept ALL other interpretations as equally valid.
415 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
416 Need lots of money quick ?? You'll have to go a long way to beat this deal !!! Hi..  I would 
417  to offer you a chance to get on the same bandwagon I did...while its still rolling.  Last year while in 
418 lifornia I received a rags to "riches" letter whibh claimed an opportunity to make more than $20,000 (legally) 
419 m a $25 investment. Although I'm not a gambler and I was quite skeptical (it sure looked like a chain letter to me),
420 checked with the Post Office, and found that it was indeed legal and jumped right in, $25 in hand....Six weeks 
421 ter, I had received $21,350 from that initial $25 investment. Now I have received my second "riches" letter 
422 though the investment was $77, I didn't hesitate for a minute.  But rather that using one of my business mailing
423 lists,  I thought that I'd offer fellow computerists a shot at this chance.  
424 ...and it doesn't cost you a penny.   
425 
426  
427  
428 ..........Remember, 
429 pportunity may knock but.........it won't knock the door down......... 
430 
431 
432 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
433 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 31 Oct 83 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
434   >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   19:39   <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
435      Well, Phantom, I had to laugh at your 'then why do my feet hurt?'
436 but as for the rest of your 'rant & rave'--why, it didn't offend me in
437 the least!  (Sorry to let you down; I know you're as cheerful in your
438 sword-fighting as when you clink ale glasses with a comrade.)  In
439 fact, you raised several excellent issues that I will put in my
440 itinerary:  your comment that few scientists "can give credence to
441 the biblical version of creation" and your cry of 'play by the rules
442 or don't play at all'.  Perhaps you were thinking of the federal court
443 trial in Little Rock, Arkansas where the Seventh-Day Adventists (and
444 others) endeavored to put so-called "scientific creationism" into the
445 schools--?  They were soundly trounced, and rightly so, because what
446 they wanted taught was NOT scientific and, aside from that, was not
447 supported by the Bible!  But I'll come back to that later; meanwhile,
448 I wish to make clear that there is a definite distinction between their
449 "creationist" dogma and the actual Biblical description of creation.
450      Ah, the rules:  I'm doing my best to follow the guidelines, both
451 of logic and of the scientific method.  If you will fault me, as our
452 benevolent Hrothgar seems to, please be specific.  I am not resorting
453 to scoffing at anyone's views, nor am I dismissing evolution without
454 a careful examination.  It is not my intent to sweep anyone to my 
455 point of view by employing emotionalism, nor do I intimidate by the
456 'tyranny of authority' method.  Are there rules that I trangress upon
457 unwittingly, perchance?  Clarify them, then, and we will proceed.
458      Hrothgar, your challenge regarding experiments & evolution-in-
459 action have not as yet been addressed because I want to be specific
460 in addressing what actually happened in these experiments, and am
461 lacking the facts.  Would you be so kind as to direct me to the
462 literature that you found this in?  Dave, consideration of mutants
463 is now inscribed on my list...but may I ask you, and Dusty as well:
464 does being comfortable with an explanation make it the truth?
465      [Whoever it was that spoke after CYM (lines 404-413), you made an
466 excellent point about why religions are so disunited!  But I won't
467 get side-tracked by that issue yet.]
468      Pam and djj:  your words of encouragement are like the crystalline
469 pure waters of a stream espied by a weary traveller...I knew that one
470 (two when Deb has time to come) against the entire Backwater crowd 
471 would be a formidable challenge--just fielding the responses takes
472 hours!--but your words make my effort seem worth it!
473      ...I'll be back Wednesday, with Deb in tow.
474 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>     d     <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
475 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   2214   All Hollow's Eve   [][][][]
476 
477 Wanted - Female Dachsund or Dachsund Mix.  (see I am not a heartless 
478 conservative all the time).  We will give her a loving and healthy home
479 with lots of play time.  There are no
480 children to bother her, but lots of affection to shower upon her.  Please
481 help us find the perfect dog.  Puppy or adult is OK.  Leave message here
482 .
483 
484 thanks, djj
485 
486 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   djj   [][][][][][][][][][][][][]
487 
488 D:
489 It was I who left the message addressed to Hrothgar.  Unfortunately, the
490 next message wiped out my signature.
491 
492 All:
493 I just got word (still unconfirmed) that the House of Representatives, in their infinite stupidity, has passed
494 a bill that would not only make it illegal for (supposedly) free American citizens to own stock in South African companies,
495 but also prevent them from owning gold in any form (except possibly for numismatic items (historical coins)).
496 Since I know there are plenty of Statists out there, here's a pop quiz for all of you out there.  First, during what years
497 in the past was it illegal for Americans to own gold?  Second, let's hear your opinion: (a) What business is it of the 
498 government to decide if we may or may not own gold.  (b) Why would the government even care (this is tricky; there IS a 
499 reason!!!!)
500 I might remind the fellow systemites that it is possible for the government to commit unconstitutional acts, even if
501 the Supreme court decides they are constitutional. (Dred Scott; look this one up in an encyclopedia if you don't know....)
502 And to those of you who persist in the misguided belief that the US is the best/free-est, etc. country, what explains
503 the government's persistent desire to meddle in the lives of its citizens? 
504 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::::::::
505 P.S.  I will later explain the reason government doesn't want us to own gold, for those of you who really don't know.
506 ******************************************
507 WHILE SITTING HERE WATCHING THIS THING I NOTICED SOMEONE TRYING TO 'BREAK IN'
508 TO BWMS. IF IT WASN'T SO BORING, IT WOULD BE FUNNY. OH WELL, JUST THOUGHT
509 I'D PASS ALONG AN INTERESTING OBSERVATION. I GUESS SOME EITHER DON'T 
510 BELIEVE OR DON'T KNOW THAT BWMS 'IS' THE SYSTEM.
511 *************** CISTOP MIKEY *****************************
512 (I WILL ADMIT THAT THERE ARE SOME SUPERVISORY COMMANDS, BUT THEY ARE SO
513 DEEPLY HIDDEN THAT IT NEAR IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THERE WITHOUT KNOWING HOW.)
514 (BUT EVEN WHEN THERE IT ISN'T MUCH, AFTER ALL OF WHAT USE WOULD ANYONE
515 REALLY HAVE FOR A COMPRESS COMMAND? THE ONLY REASON IT IS HIDDEN IS TO 
516 PREVENT IDIOTS FROM USING IT AND THEN HANGING UP IN THE MIDDLE THEREBY
517 LEAVING THE SYSTEM IN A STATE OF LIMBO. IT WOULD STILL RUN, BUT THERE
518 WOULD BE SOME CONFUSING TEXT WHERE THE COMPRESS WAS TERMINATED ON HANGUP.)
519 THE OTHER COMMAND ALLOWS ME TO GO TO 1200 BAUD FOR LOCAL OPERATION WHICH
520 WOULD SIMPLY LOCK OUT ANYONE ATTEMPTING IT. OF COURSE THE SYSTEM WOULD 
521 RESTORE ITSELF ON HANGUP, SO IT WOULDN'T BE PERMINATE.)
522 **********************************************************************
523 ******************
524 ******************
525 I DO EXIST
526 I AM REAL
527 I DO COMMUNICATE
528 and despite the 
529 name I do care how
530 people feel
531 
532 **********a pathy**
533 ******************
534 ...................................
535 Why such excitement about creationism vs evolution? Then Bible doesn't say
536 how God made the earth, or the creature on it. It gives some of the 
537 ingredients only. As to the time involved, Genesis uses "day in at leasy
538 half a dozen different ways. God works outside 'natural' laws, and can
539 bend them to his own uses, as well as ignore them. He could easily use
540 evolution to create man. We would never know it because we could never know.
541 
542 now, to comment on some week old BWMS messages (been too busy to keep up)
543 
544 Pam, you seem not to accept my using a person's words to describe him. Anon
545 claimed he was what he said he was. (He claimed he owed nothing to society)
546 If his own claim is true, my conclusion he is a parasite is correct; if he
547 lies he isn't a good citizen then either. Both ways, he used his words to
548 attack our system, and attempt to get others to cheat, which in itself (word
549 only) make my assesment true. In any case he offers no evidence to the co
550 contrary.  Any excess over consumption he may produce is irrevelent as he
551 admits to keeping it for himself & his own uses.  As to reaching conclusions
552 from incomplete data, I admit it isn't perfect, and the Aristotlian logic
553 will not accept it, but the methods of reaching valid conclusion from
554 incomplete data are well established, and now we know enough logic to show
555 know that they are valid often enough, and fail rarely enough to use.
556 All real world conclusions are  made using these methods; only on paper
557 can the 'absolutely correct' Aristotlian logic work; it applies only when
558 the subject can be fully defined. For example, some years back one of our
559 ancestors saw a curve of orange, screamed a warning and raced up a tree.
560 He didn't need to see the tiger's eyes watching hungrily, or the teeth 
561 ready to eat him, the sight of the tiger's back said they were there too.
562 A conclusion reached from incomplete data, yes, it could have been 
563 something else, but. In this incomplete world we weigh probability, benfits
564 and costs and make a decision based on partial data. Errors are made, but
565 in the long run we do pretty well. 
566 Not all of us here on BWMS are what we claim to be. I recognise this and
567 if "Anon" is the figment of some writers imagination, then my comment about
568 Anon applies only to Anon, not to Writer, whoever he may be.
569 Dom, you seemed to believe divorce is evil, by the comment " a promise once
570 made should be kept."forever. I must assume a marriage is made in love, and
571 when the thing falls apart, which some do, I can't see love requiring both
572 or either to suffer. People change. A mariage apart is no marriage, and your
573 question about is marriage only living together implies you mean it can 
574 exist beyond the separation, it can't. Only the legal and very expensive
575 fiction then exists. But then who are we to enforce our ideas on what others
576 do? (As long as their acts don't infringe on us.)
577 /////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\0615 am Nov 1\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
578 }
579 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
580 BAD, I FEEL THAT WHAT YOU SAID WAS TOTALLY UNNECESSARY (NO MATTER HOW 
581 VALID).  I AGREE THAT THE OPINIONS ANON EXPRESSED WERE THOSE OF A PARASITE,
582 AND I PERSONALLY FIND THEM ABHORRANT.  ANON DESCRIBED HIS OPINIONS AND
583 VIEWS, BUT FEW OF HIS ACTIONS.  AND IF HE LIES, HE IS A MEMBER OF THE
584 HUMAN RACE (DON'T TELL ME YOU NEVER LIE, BAD.  I CAN ACCEPT MUCH, BUT 
585 NOT THE POSSIBILITY OF YOUR SAINTHOOD).  AND THE FACT HE OFFERS NO 
586 EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY DOESN'T PROVE HE IS, AND NEVER HAS.  NO EVIDENCE
587 HAS APPEARED THAT PLUTO DOESN'T HAVE LIFE OF SOME KIND, BUT THAT CAN'T
588 BE TAKEN TO MEAN PLUTO DEFINITELY HAS NO LIFE.
589      ON THE SUBJECT OF REACHING CONCLUSIONS FROM INCOMPLETE DATA, I DO
590 NOT DENY IT IS SOMETIMES NECESSARY.  YOUR TIGER ANALOGY IS VALID, BUT
591 ONLY PARTLY APPLICABLE TO THIS CASE.  IN THAT CASE, THE POSSIBILITY OF 
592 THE TIGER REPRESENTS A DANGER TO LIFE, AND AS SUCH MUST BE ACTED UPON. 
593 SITUATIONS WHERE CONCLUSIONS MUST BE REACHED FROM INCOMPLETE DATA ARE 
594 THOSE WHERE ACTION MUST BE TAKEN *NOW*, AND WAITING FOR MORE COMPLETE DATA
595 WOULD BE HARMFUL TO A PROPER RESOLUTION.  IN THE CASE OF ANON, IT WOULD
596 HAVE BEEN JUST AS EASY TO SAY "YOUR OPINIONS ARE THOSE OF A PARASITE",
597 RATHER THAN "YOU ARE A PARASITE".  WHAT BENEFITS DO YOU (OR ANYONE ELSE)
598 DERIVE FROM SUCH UNCIVIL BEHAVIOR?  ANON DOESN'T REPRESENT A THREAT TO 
599 YOUR LIFE, ONLY YOUR EGO.
600      SOME MIGHT FIND IT INTERESTING THAT I'M DEFENDING ANON, WHEN IT'S
601 OBVIOUS FROM PAST ENCOUNTERS THAT WE ARE OPPOSED.  BUT I DON'T DEFEND ANON.
602 THOUGH I TEND TO AGREE WITH BAD'S CONCLUSION, I DON'T SEE THE NEED OF A
603 CONCLUSION.
604                                                                        
605      ON THE CONCEPT OF GOD, IF YOU DEFINE HIM AS 1) OMNIPOTENT;
606 2) OMNISCIENT; AND 3) OMNIPRESENT; THEN BY DEFINITION WE CANNOT PROVE
607 HE DOESN'T EXIST.  BEING ALL POWERFUL, HE COULD HAVE CREATED THE EARTH
608 IN 6 DAYS (AS IN GENESIS) WITH THE GEOLOGICAL AND FOSSIL RECORD INTACT.
609 WHY?  WHO KNOWS?  BEING OMNISCIENT, HE COULD HAVE GOOD REASONS THAT ARE
610 TOTALLY BEYOND OUR COMPREHENSION (I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE REST OF YOU,
611 BUT I'M NOWHERE CLOSE TO OMNISCIENT)  THE REST OF MY MESSAGE HAS BEEN ERASED!! ARRGH!
612                                                                               
613 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]

