From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:24:46
Message Number 12711

>Posting on this BBS is good therapy, too.
 
Oh, Lordy...does that mean I'm liable for malpractice suits now?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:28:30
Message Number 12712

RufusCon '91 will be announced well in advance everywhere...BBS's,m
word of mouth, posters, you name it. I can't guarantee a live band
for RufusCon '91; the one that showed up at RufusCon '90 was
totally unexpected. (They just turned up, and I for one didn't know
any of 'em from anywhere. A knock on the door, a bunch of people
standing on the doorstep with large amplifiers, and the rest is
history.) It's open to any sentient being that wants to wander by.
RufusCon '91 likely won't take place until at least mid-summer,
though...
 
Suncoast City Joint Monthly Indoor Picnicks are usually posted a week
in advance on this system; they generally happen about the first
Saturday of the month.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: fish           
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:33:06
Message Number 12713

I /hate/ when my bass gets stuck on an alligator...ruins the
strings, and the pickups are a pain to replace when they've got
seaweed stuck in 'em. Plus it ruins the finish, ya know?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:34:05
Message Number 12714

>But have you found that as you grow older, your "gut feelings"
>grow wiser?
 
Of course. Experience, doncha know. At that point they are no longer
strictly intuitive and strictly non-rational, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Role models    
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:35:58
Message Number 12715

Bad role models abound; I7d say that has little to do with the
family a person comes from. Sure, a person raised in a close-knit
family may be a little more discriminating, but not necessarily.
A loving family is no guarantee of a healthy adult, and a
"dysfunctional" (what a staggeringly meaningless word) family does not
always produce "dysfunctional" adults. Insecurity comes from many
places and in many forms, and I'm hard put to think of any single
bigger factor in a troubled relationship.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Lizards & You  
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:40:54
Message Number 12716

Lizard Logic, huh? Well, I'll be damned. I just had a lengthy conver-
sation with a friend of mine, in whic I put forth the idea that a large
number of people's problems relationship-wise stem from letting the
lizard brain handle the situation--the limbic system approach to
interpersonal management, if you will. And now I find out that not
only is it not an original idea, someone's gone and written a BOOK
about it. Well, there go my royalties...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: What does it   
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:44:06
Message Number 12717

>                          A sick JonBoy
>                       (at least Wratt sez so)
 
Not that he's one to talk. Anyone who doesn't like Mountain Dew...but
I digress. Speaking of which, you up for rebuilding Lori's carb (and
looking at her fuel pump) next Saturday?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:47:52
Message Number 12718

You forgot erotic love, which was one of the four Greek classifications.
Personally, I always found the Greek system stiflingly arbitrary and
somewhat incomplete. It makes no provision, for example, for love
for one's self, which is a very different animal from the ones you
named, and it doesn't really distinguish between different types of
"love from afar" (love of all mankind is a very different animal from
love for one's flag or love of one's personal diety). I tend toward
the view that there are at least as many different types of love as
there are people.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:51:42
Message Number 12719

>Errr I'm trying to flush them out! Honest!
 
Very well...you may once again partake of th Sacred Dew. Just don't
let it happen again.
 
(Actually, the tome hasn't been written yet, but Rufus and I are
nominally working on it. An excerpt, on the expression "May the Aardvark
of Happiness lick your toes":
    Just as the toe leads the foot, and the foot propels the body
    down life's path, so does the Sacred Aardvark lead us all
    on the Shining Path.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:54:37
Message Number 12720

>Nothing makes ya feel better than a hug.
 
With the possible exception of a Mountain Dew, an inside strait in a
four-hundred-dollar pot, or any letter beginning "Dear Sweepstakes
Winner".
 
(c) 1991 Anarchy Now, Inc. Any individual or group taking this message
    seriously deserves to.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Loving people  
Date & Time: 02/25/91 00:56:25
Message Number 12721

>Ah, but what word described the guy that's in love with himself....
>Besides a "jerk", that is?
 
Cut that out. Without some amount of self-love love of others is
rather difficult, doncha think? I've met people who genuinely have
no self-love. It's a miserable state of affairs.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Clarity        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:01:11
Message Number 12722

All of a sudden, it hit me how to put my objections to the
war thing more succintly and directly than I managed to do
before.
 
I am not against the war because I don't think we should be fighting
against Hussein; I oppose the war because I don't think we should
be fighting /for/ a bloody goddamn bastard like the Emir. Clear?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:11:30
Message Number 12723

TS> I wouldn't include you in with us anyway. 
  
You mean I can't, like, hang around with you guys anymore?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Homos in the WP
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:18:16
Message Number 12724

TS> Fags in the workplace...I swear to God if it were in my power I 
TS> I would have (beat him with a single weapon)
  
Yeah, well, you could have whipped him had-to-hand.  I wanted to 
beat to hell out of him, but I had to ignore him.  He wasn't worth my 
old $9/hr paying job. 
But it would have been fun. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:21:25
Message Number 12725

SA> Hy, JB, I'm arried, I'm not dead.  U still know hos to bat my 
eyelashes....
   
Gaaaawddd, aren't we just the flirt? 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: The way to Eden
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:23:04
Message Number 12726

Sounds vaguely familiar, perhaps I /did/ see it.  But if I can't 
remember it, obviously to wasn't worth remembering. (if you recall we 
were talking about the shows we didn't like.)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:24:55
Message Number 12727

SS> Where do you know Barbara Dare from? (perverted smile)
  
SA> no comment....(batting eyelashes again)
  
Chicken-shit, what, are we afraid to fess up?  Just for clarification, 
I'm not dropping this string until you do confess. (shinig bright light 
of intergation on your conscience.)   hehehe :) 
                     A sometimes stuborn, 
                     Scott Steel
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:35:24
Message Number 12728

That was not the situation, we were in friends.  He knew that he 
probably would offended.  And yes he /was/ being serious, he was hitting
on a couple of other guys as well. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:37:47
Message Number 12729

I didn't live with walls around my heart.  I hug a lot of my friends, 
I am a very affectionate person.  I feel most comfortable with a 
girl snuggled right up next to me. And I didn't have any hang ups about 
hugging guys. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: <Continuing>   
Date & Time: 02/25/91 01:45:58
Message Number 12730

Just for the record, I skipped over all that /junk/ and I mean /junk/.
Can't you two let this debate die? You can't change the situation in 
the Gulf, and everybody knows you aren't going to change each others 
mind either. 
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: A.C.O.A.       
Date & Time: 02/25/91 11:00:55
Message Number 12732

Yes, I'm familiar with A.C.O.A.. I attend when I can (work schedule 
chenges from week to week), and it has helped.
 
KO>Coming from a dysfunctional family can be a source of strength.
JB> Coming from a dysfunctional family is a life-crippling event and 
should be treated as such. You may not even aware of all the mental
damage that you have sustained.
 
The reason that I made the statement about strength is because of many 
reasons.
I got my strength from my mother who is very strong emotionally
despite the 17 years of horror that she lived. My sister has also been 
very strong. 
1a) If you have a network of people around you that can help you during 
the bad times, you're very fortunate
2)Despite the gravity of the subject, a sense of humor helps greatly.
 
3)The possibility ALWAYS exists that the alcoholic will get help. I 
left when I was 17, and my father quit 4 years later. I often feel that 
I should have stayed at home.
 
As for the emotional damage, yes I'm aware of it, and I'm seeking help 
for it.
 
SEE YA!
Knight Owl
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/25/91 11:40:40
Message Number 12733

S> Posting on this BBS is good therapy, too.
T> Oh lordy...dpoes that mean that I'm liable for malpractice?
 
No, you covered your *ss rather well with the log-off sattement about 
all of this being fiction or coincidence.
 
SEE YA!
Knight Owl
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/25/91 13:53:55
Message Number 12734

T>Does that mean I'm liable for malpractice suits now? 
Hmmmmm, Dr. Turtle....., I think you're safe. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 13:55:34
Message Number 12735

Thanks for the info. Maybe I can round up a band for Rufuscom 91. I know
alot of musicians.... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fish           
Date & Time: 02/25/91 13:56:49
Message Number 12736

Hmmm, seaweed on a bass. I guess you'd better get a sea bass either that
or quit playing those surfin' songs. How long have you been playing the 
bass? Have you played with any local bands??? ----A curious Saavik
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/25/91 13:59:02
Message Number 12737

T>At that point they (gut feelings) are no longer strictly intuitive 
and strictly non-rational, though. 
.
Please elaborate. What do you mean by non-rational. I find as I get 
older, my judgement becomes more rational. I think in terms of the 
big picture. Consequences and all that stuff. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Big factor     
Date & Time: 02/25/91 14:01:11
Message Number 12738

In my opinion, one of the biggest factors in troubled relationships is 
selfishness. If a person can't see beyond his or her own needs... the 
relationship is doomed. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 14:03:36
Message Number 12739

And what's the Greek word for loving the Aardvark?
Aardvarderotica????
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 14:05:03
Message Number 12740

You forgot that exhilerating moment when you open the Visa Statement 
and it says...."You're credit line has been extended to......" 
Shop til you drop......CHARGE IT!!!!!!

===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Loving people  
Date & Time: 02/25/91 14:06:32
Message Number 12741

oK, cutting it out. You're right, of course (a very annoying trend of 
yours). But I was talking about the normal love "The greatest love of 
all...." I was talking about obsessive self love "You're so vain". 
Can you tell I relate to songs?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: The way to Eden
Date & Time: 02/25/91 14:11:16
Message Number 12743

You are a forgiven Trekkie for not remembered that show. It was the 
Pitts!!!!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:16:47
Message Number 12747

I don't know about you, but I don't want people burying toxic wastes
outside *my* town somewhere, so I wouldn't do it to any other town.
Also, cutting down rainforests hurts everybody.  The examples you 
cited can also be applied to the Golden Rule (I don't know why I 
caplitalized that), that is, I wouldn't do those things (to people) and
I wouldn't want them done to me.  Just because it says for the
individual doesn't mean it can't cover plural.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:19:40
Message Number 12748

On a related suject to my last message, I would also like to state that
I wonder if you reject the Golden Rule simply because of it's origin;
ie because it came from the Bible and you consider half the adivice 
(SP advice) and other things in the Bible to be pure bunk>
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:24:15
Message Number 12749

JB>My personal campain is to hug anyone that is dear to me and F*ck
JB>anyone who feels it isn't manly.
 
F*ck them?  Now who is a repressed homo?  (Chuckle...guffaw SNORT!)
 
But seriously, JB...I hope that I never become that good of a friend
of yours.  A hug would end that fast...and might put me in the hospital.
(After my beserk)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Book           
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:28:07
Message Number 12750

JB> Book:  Dinosaur Brains...
 
Oh, cool!  Can I borrow it?  
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:29:13
Message Number 12751

JB>C'mon Dave - quit being so damned snotty.  We can disagree and call
JB>each other jerks but still remain gentlemen - Ok?
 
Or the equivalent.  Yes, sir, fine with me. 
 
 
I've just been arguing with Turtle & Max too long, I guess.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Theragram      
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:30:53
Message Number 12752

S>Posting on this BBS is good therapy, too.
JB> I dunno, - I have visions of TS taking a bayonet to his personal
JB>"Gay Bob"  [ROFLOL] doll after he logs off here.  I may cause a lot
JB>of stress for some people. 
 
Y'know, it's funny you mention that--I used to have a girlfriend that
I took out my anger on (sadly, yes, I actually *am* an asshole) when
I got too pissed off on the boards.  She used to try to keep me off
of them...said they caused "strife".  (She was religious - er, excuse
me, she had "A good relationship with her Lord."  Sheesh!  She explained
the difference but it sounds the same to me.  Gimme a break...)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:38:27
Message Number 12753

S>After reading about the "Gay Bob" doll, I'm sure he's laughing too 
S>hard to find his bayonet.
 
ROFLOL - Roling On Floor Lauging Out Loud...
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What does it   
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:57:07
Message Number 12755

T>...you up for rebuilding Lori's carb (and looking at her fuel pump)...
 
And maybe adding some more horsepower to that machine?   
 
 
Need some help?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 19:59:54
Message Number 12756

TS>I wouldn't include you in with us anyway.
SS>you mean I can't, like, hand around with you guys anymore?
 
Only if you take the sacred vow of Fag Bashing.  Right, Tiberius?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Homos in the WP
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:01:39
Message Number 12757

TS>I would have (beat daylights out of him)
SS>YOu could have whipped him hand-to-hand.
 
Probably, but who wants to touch one? 
 
SS>He wasn't worth my $9 hr job.
 
What?  Yes, it was.  Who wants to work in the same place with a fag?
 
SS>But it would have been fun.
 
It would have been appropriate.  Just.  DESERVED.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:05:06
Message Number 12758

JB>he might have been joking...
SS>...he /was/ being serious, he was hitting on a couple of other guys
SS>as well.
 
"Shrink, I wanna kill.  Kill!  KILL KILL KILL!"  -Arlo Guthrie
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:06:48
Message Number 12759

SS> And I didn't have any hang ups about hugging guys.
 
Scott, stop it.  You don't need to overstate a matter to defend yourself
against his conniving attacks.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Loving people  
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:10:21
Message Number 12761

S> [to Turtle] Ok, cutting it out.  You're right, of course (a very
S>annoying trend of yours.)
 
Ah, yes, you noticed that, eh?  Except I'd call it a HABIT.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:11:57
Message Number 12762

S>I confess, I ...
 
[Look of shocked suprise!] [Changes to malicious grin...]
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:25:33
Message Number 12763

>SA Gotten me in trouble more than once...
Yeah - ain't it terrible when ya try to be warm and they interpret it
as "hot ta go"?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Carbs          
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:33:20
Message Number 12764

Sure we can do that - remind me a day or so in advance to make sure that
I remember to get some cleaner and small brushes.  Ask her if she can 
show up early (like noon-ish) so that if any more disasters strike
we have olenty of time to deal with them.  It might even be nice to
swipe her book a day in advance so that I can make sure that if anything
special is required - I can get it.  I was also meaning to call and see
if I could loacate even a junker distributer so we maybe could replace 
that worn breaker plate.  What year and model is her Soo-ba-roo?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:37:30
Message Number 12765

The point was that they didn't try and make one word do the work of
many with the corresponding confusion about what exactly the point
was (is).  The greeks usually were pretty arbitrary about a lot of 
ideas and concepts and annoyingly precise about those things they
knew the least about.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:40:40
Message Number 12766

T> any letter beginning with "Dear Sweepstakes Winner"
 
Hey I get personal ones of those all the time and from good ol'
Ed hisself.  Never made me feel real warm tho...  I must be inured
to those sorts of "life's better moments".
 
                                    JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:50:01
Message Number 12767

TS> A hug might end that fast --
  Gee Dave - you sure are touchy.  Thing about how little a value you
just put on a friendship.  (note that I overlooked the repressed
joke - mmmmphhhh (supressed grin))
                                     JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Book           
Date & Time: 02/25/91 20:51:34
Message Number 12768

TS> Can I borrow it?
 
Sure - long as I get it back.  Lemme know when - maybe I could
give it to Turtle this weekend and you could get it then.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/25/91 21:29:39
Message Number 12769

T>...you up for rebuilding Lori's carb (and looking at her fuel pump)...
TS> And maybe adding some more horsepower to that machine? 
I think she'll be just as happy if ity runs smooth - the distributor was
a big help - now on to the most likely cause of a sick car.
 
TS> Need some help?  
Ummmm I would really prefer that it not become a group grope.  Too many
small parts y'unnerstand not to mention me and turtle tend to cramp
what little space there is under the hood.  Thanks for the offer tho...
We should be able to wreck uhhhh repair (yeah - that's it!) her carb 
ok. 
                              Master Mechanical JonBoy
===========

From: GROUCHO             
To: ALL                 
Subject: Killer Instinct
Date & Time: 02/25/91 21:57:50
Message Number 12770

Being new to this BBS, I just thought I'd drop a little note here to 
let y'all know I'm here.  After having read the messages on the board,
I find a large number of "enlightened" individuals.  Having had my 
horizons expanded for a considerable number of years, I may have
something of interest to add to the ongoing topics of conversation.
I think the "homophobe" or whoever he is is entertaining.  I wonder
if this guy advocates personal freedom of choice or would take away
the rights of others to suit his own preferences.  I further wonder
what sort of upbringing and environmental stimuli would produce such
an outspoken individual.
  
To Saavik:  I like your messages (I'll bet you have "smiling eyes").
 
To Turtle:  Glad to be aboard and I appreciate the time and $$ you 
            spend to provide this service.  This does not mean that
            I will agree with all your views.
  
To all others:  Pick a topic, any topic, I have a "collective" opinion
                on just about anything.  If I can't formulate one, the
                topic is probably beneath me.
 
Groucho
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: <Continuing>   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:02:20
Message Number 12771

>Just for the record, I skipped over all that /junk/ and I mean /junk/.
 
If you didn't read it, you have no right to respond to it...or even to
call it "junk."
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:03:40
Message Number 12772

>Hmmmmmm, Dr. Turtle....., I think you're safe.
 
You /think/? You THINK?? How's that gonna help me in the courtroom???
Aaaiiiggghhh!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: fish           
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:04:40
Message Number 12773

Actually, I don't play the bass...I was simply making a play on words,
doncha know. :( There was talk earlier about starting a band with some
of the users here (I do play drums, or at least did), but it seems to
have stalled.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:05:43
Message Number 12774

Non-rational means just that. I was making the observation that
rationality is generally a good way to approach a relationship, and you
said that since you don't always know what's going on in the other
person's head you sometimes have to rely on intuition instead. But
if your intuition improves with experience, obviously intuition is not
non-rational...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:07:28
Message Number 12775

>And what's the Greek word for loving the Aardvark?
>Aardvarderotica?
 
The Greeks, for all their wisdom in other matters, were sadly un-
enlightened about the Shining Path. Unfortunately, there is no
Greek word for love of the Aardvark. But they do make a mean sandwich,
so that's gotta count for something.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:09:02
Message Number 12776

>CHARGE IT!!!!!!
 
I don't do credit cards. If I can't afford it now, I can't afford it.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Loving people  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:09:47
Message Number 12777

>Can you tell I relate to songs?
 
Beats relating to Post-It fish, I suppose.
 
...so what's so annoying about being right??
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:10:46
Message Number 12778

>...I RENT porno flicks. The plots are so intelligent...
 
On a side note, I have heard (apocryphally) that there are intelligent,
well-produced porno flicks out there, but I've never seen one or talked
first-hand to anyone who has.
 
>I also read Hustler because the articles are so informing.
 
Err...in a manner of speaking, I suppose you could call 'em that. Me, if
I want article content I read Playboy. No shit. The last copy I bought,
I read cover to cover and when I was done realized I hadn't stopped to
look at the pictures. Sad...really, really sad.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:13:41
Message Number 12779

Yes, those things can be applied to the golden rule, but not directly;
you can logically argue that any action not directly related to other
people is not covered by that rule. Also, the G.R. has /nothing/ to
say about any action which does not relate directly or incidentally to
the way you interact with others, where the Wiccan version does.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:15:06
Message Number 12780

I don't reject the Golden Rule; I think it's good advice for governing
interactions between people. I just don't think it's sufficient. I
don't reject anything in the Bible just because it's from the Bible;
in fact, most of the Ten Commandments are pretty good guidelines, too.
The Bible is somewhat useful as a history text, if you treat it as
folk histor and not as gospel truth (sorry 'bout the pun); it's
got some merit as a work of social morality; I just happen to think its
description of the way the universe works is bunk. Burning bushes...
I don't think so.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: <Starting>     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:19:07
Message Number 12781

My point was not that I believe the Kuwaitis should live under a
democracy, or that they should adopt our Constitution, or what-have-
you. My point was that I cannot with clear conscience fight a war to
support a government that murders its own people. I believe that that
sort of behavior is morally wrong, period. I am surprised and disturbed
by your claim that the Emir is legitimate because he hasn't been tossed
out of power yet; does that mean you support any government, no matter
how brutal, that has managed to cling to power for X amount of
time?
 
What I would like to see in Kuwait is not an American government, or
an Iraqui government, but a government set up by the Kuwaitis--ALL of
the Kuwaitis. The way Kuwait is structured now, women have no say (and
in fact under certain circumstances can be BOUGHT and SOLD, for god's
sake!); non-Kuwaitis have no say, even if they've lived there all their
life, even if they've become Kuwaiti nationals; and people without
a certain economic status have no say. If ALL of these people were to
have some voice in setting up their government, and I mean some voice
other than "Well, they haven't assassinated the Emir yet," THEN I would
call that a "legitimate" government.
 
To answer your other question: I am still somewhat skeptical about the
US having any business in the Gulf to begin with, but were we not
fighting under the auspices of a known dictator I would feel much better
about supporting the war effort. Yes, were we not fighting to restore
a society where women are property and the secret police are not
answerable to any outside legal agency for any of their actions, I would
most likely approve of the war. I simply cannot approve of anything
that supports and encourages these sort of things, because I find them
morally repugnant.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: What does it   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:26:53
Message Number 12782

>And maybe adding some more horsepower to that machine?
 
Right now I'd be happy if it didn't stumble under hard acceleration and
didn't misfire at high speed. The horsepower is secondary...after all,
it IS a Subaru station wagon!
 
>Need some help?
 
I dunno...what are you doing Saturday morning? Wratt will probably be
down from Tampa; the more the merrier. (You may have second thoughts
when you see the carb, though...)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:30:01
Message Number 12783

Well, swiping Lori a day in advance is probably out of the question,
since she has class until late and I work until 10:30. Noonish on
Saturday sounds good to me (although I bet she gripes about getting
up that early...we're both noctournal, doncha know). The car in
question is an '86 Subaru GL (non-turbo, non-4WD version, 1800CC
engine, station wagon).
 
...say, you know anything about automatic trannies? Hers is starting
to slip between second and third...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:33:09
Message Number 12784

Well, hell. Here I go and say "Sure, c'mon over," and you nix it.
*sigh* Well, I guess you do got a point 'bout space under the hood,
but I'll leave it up to you and T.S. to hash out.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:55:10
Message Number 12788

SA> Saavik is NOT a chicken shit!!!!!! I confess, I RENT porno flicks...
....Ok, I'm apervert?? 
  
God, you just wreck my perfect image of you. :)
  
Please remove that curse, pretty please.
   
                            A very perverted, 
                            Scott Steel 
  
P.S. How do you think /I/ knew about Barbara Dare.  Personally my fav is
Ginger Lynn. I don't what do you care? 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 00:59:52
Message Number 12789

Hugs, yes I know, a firm hand shake and maybe a hand on the shoulder 
what constitute a hug to you.  But not to a lot of people. In that way, 
you are very closed-off.  I hope you get an affectionate girlfriend that
can break you of that. 
But, I kind of doubt it. (Breaking you of that, not getting a girlfriend
I wouldn't stoop that low)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Theragram      
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:03:37
Message Number 12790

TS> Gimme a break...
  
Okay, hold out your neck. 
  
(Stole joke from the Specialist)
So he gets the credit for that joke.)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:06:17
Message Number 12791

TS> ...sacred vow of Fag Bashing. 
  
What is this vow you speak of? 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:10:08
Message Number 12792

Hey, I have a sick '78 Chevette. Won't start, won't run.  
Want to take a look? 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: <Continuing>   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:12:09
Message Number 12793

T> If you didn't read it, you have no right to respond to it..or even to
T> call it "junk."
  
Well, I read about the first five lines, realized you where saying 
something close to nothing, therefore I called it junk. You were just 
reiterating your position, again.  Which you and the Specialist like 
to do for some reason. Over and over and ver again. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:16:39
Message Number 12794

T> ...I read Playboy. The last copy I bought, l read cover to cover and 
T> when I was done realized I hadn't stopped to look at the pictures. 
T> Sad...really, really sad. 
  
I'd say so. 
Are is your hormones working right? 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: <Starting>     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:19:13
Message Number 12795

Like I said, over and over and over again. 
  
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:20:54
Message Number 12796

T> I'll leave it up to you and T.S. to hash it out. 
  
Yeah, I'll tag along too.  I usually supply the sometimes needed brute 
force for the Specialist.  Helped change out the engine in his Dodge, 
you know. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: E-mail         
Date & Time: 02/26/91 01:25:26
Message Number 12797

Hey, I left you some E-mail and you didn't read it.  
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: A.C.O.A.       
Date & Time: 02/26/91 02:09:35
Message Number 12798

No problem on Terrran Trace. It was a good start though. What would you 
think of an ACOA area there. Lemme know, and I'll ask Random about it.
 
 >I too had a strong mother & 2 sisters.
Are you the youngest of the family? I am. 
I know what you mean by ruined holidays. I can't remember the last 
decent holiday meal in our house.
  My father too, was a WWII vet. When he was laid to rest, we enclosed a
48-star flag (6'x4', It was BIG!) in place of the 50-star banner. I'm
not sure why though.
The war brings some aches to me also, but I handle it well.
 
My father was also very talented in his profession, but due to the alco-
hol, he was forced to retire at age 50. 
As for the blame, I place it upon myself. Bad childhood health didn't 
help matters. 
 
-- An A.C.0.A 
Knight Owl
===========

From: TIBERIUS            
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: How not to     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 10:11:50
Message Number 12800

>Don't get "slapped" for staring........
  
That's one thing I don't have to worry about. I am the master of the 
"Furtive glance". If that doesn't work, I'll wear my mirror sunglasses.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:19:58
Message Number 12801

Blonde hair and kinda short??? I remember he had big muscles and a dark 
tan and a deep voice. I can't remember his name. Yeah, his hair was
blonde. He kinda reminded me of Arnold Swartzen...(however you spell 
his name. I haven't seen him in a several years.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:28:34
Message Number 12802

TS>Aarvarkagape. 
.
Thank you. I will store that information away in the vastly unused 
portion of my brain cells. I am certain that it will, one day, save 
my life..... or that of an Aardvark. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Right!         
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:30:41
Message Number 12803

Yes, Turtle is ALWAYS right. It IS his board, He DOES have his finger 
poised above the delete user list Y/N. No, no. Just kidding. Turtle is 
consistantly correct. I
I'd love to catch him JUST ONCE.    "DING!"
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:33:57
Message Number 12804

Why shocked? Why surprised? Surely you don't watch porno flicks ALONE do
you????? Heh Heh....(sly grin)
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:35:27
Message Number 12805

JB>Ain't it terrible when ya try to be warm and they interpret it as 
hot to go?
.
It's embarrassing. It's made me hesitate to be myself around people I 
don't know. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:43:07
Message Number 12807

How's that gonna help you in the courtroom? How are they going to get 
you there? Supeona(sp?) to Turtle. Location: Alter Reality. Nah, don't 
think it would happen...., 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Bass           
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:44:46
Message Number 12808

T>Actually, I don't play the bass..... I do play drums..... 
.
Well, you played the bass drum, didn't ya???? Why stalled? Styx broke??
I used to play the drums, too. Nothing fancy but I can keep a beat. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:47:34
Message Number 12809

Yes, I understand now. I have been out of the "dating game" for quite a 
while but I see some of my friends struggling out there in the dark. 
Most of them tend to plunge headlong into relationships without a second
thought. Maybe they should call this board, eh? Get educated. "Calling
Dr. Turtle-------The LOVE Broker." 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:50:15
Message Number 12810

T>They (Aardvarks) do make a mean sandwich...
.
Did you see Steel Magnolias? You just have to see the Grooms Cake in the
movie. It was shaped like an Armadillo. Grey icing and blood red cake. 
Too funny to be gross. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:52:04
Message Number 12811

T>I don't do credit cards.......
Oh, you sensible, responcible person, you. I, too, have seen the light. 
Credit cards are the root of all evil.........
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Loving people  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:53:33
Message Number 12812

T>...so what's so annoying about being right??
.
Nothing if I'm the one who's right!!!!!!! (sigh), a rare event in here. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 12:54:45
Message Number 12813

Well produced porno flicks..... Yes, they are making them better. Anothe
thing they are doing, is reprinting the assnine old ones with new covers
especially when one of the actors or actresses have gotten "big" since. 
As far as Hustler goes, the content is raunch. You are right (grrrr, 
there you go again) about Playboy. The articles adress a wide variety 
of subjects, least of all.....sex. Sad? Hey, if someone buys the mag 
for the pictures and ends up reading the articles (provided that they
CAN read), then all the better, eh?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/26/91 13:00:30
Message Number 12814

Why is it different if men do it(flirting)? I was being sarcastic when 
I said that I supposed it was different. That's why I said "Awk, double
standards! The only difference I can come up with is that when men flirt
it's up to them to take it the step further. When a woman flirts, some
one might misinterpret(sp?) it and make a move on her. I only flirt with
people I know......, or, as on the boards, it'd be kind of hard to put 
the move on me.... I can always log off if I didn't like it. Does this
make sense??
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 13:05:01
Message Number 12815

What does "I don't what do you care?" mean??? I like Barbara Dare's new
films. I like Ron Jeremy....., Cassie Nova is ok.. Not "up" on all the
names, but I know the anatomy, (heh, heh) and the faces. I hereby remove
the curse from you, Scott......you pervert. Or should that be "fellow
pervert"?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: A.C.O.A.       
Date & Time: 02/26/91 13:12:05
Message Number 12817

Yes, I am the youngest. My sisters remember when my Dad was not drunk 
ALL the time. I can't remember him not drinking. When I was a pre-teen, 
I realized for the first time that NOT everybodies Father was a drunk. 
I used to follow him down to the bar and beg him not to go. It would 
make him mad, to say the least. Now I realize that he was mad because 
my begging made him feel guilty. He worked on job sites (like disney 
world) so he would be gone for weeks at a time. Sometimes, the paychecks
never made it home. I used to hate him for making my mother suffer and 
struggle. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TIBERIUS            
Subject: How not to     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 13:15:27
Message Number 12818

Ah, "you wear your sunglasses at night........" 
"Go get yourself some cheap sunglasses......" 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Drums          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 16:49:44
Message Number 12822

Hey I used to play the drums, too.  I had to sell my kit before I moved
to Florida three and a half years ago.  Bummer.  I miss playing but I 
still practice on whatever is handy.  I had a Pearl kit with Ludwig 
hardware, and Zildjian cymbals.  
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 16:52:10
Message Number 12823

SA> Credit cards are the root of all evil....
  
No shit.  I'm up to my ass in credit card bills.  At a whoppy 20% 
interest.  Citibank and others have not mercy. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/26/91 16:54:33
Message Number 12824

Yep.  Please don't log off, I enjoy our conversations.  Besides I think 
it's cool to have a woman's opinion, which is desparately needed 
around here. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 16:57:42
Message Number 12825

Yes, "fellow pervert."  "I don't what do you care?" That was a typo,
big time.  It was suppose to read, "I know, what do you care?"  In 
other words, what would you care if I thought Ginger Lynn was 
gorgeous?  I mean, unless you were bi-sexual.(?) hehe (WIDE perverted 
smile)
===========

From: GROUCHO             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 19:03:48
Message Number 12830

Turtle > Burning Bushes ..... I don't think so.
  
Maybe not a burning bush, but if you were to write of an experience
where you had the clap ..... what would a future generation think of
the things you had written, when the "frame of reference" was gone.
===========

From: GROUCHO             
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Observations   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 19:11:26
Message Number 12831

In reading several of the messages to and from you, I was wondering
whether you have ever watched little kids interacting.  I see a much
more "natural" series of interactions.  Those that are not based 
on the stuff we are programmed with as we progress.  Wouldn't it
be nice if adults could act more like kids in this respect?  Certainly
there are enough childish adults ..... just read some of the messages
here on Turtle's board .....
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Drums          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 20:31:17
Message Number 12834

Zildjian cymbals!! The best. I like Ludwig too. I used to have a old 
black vinyl set of Ludwigs....OLD< OLD. I used to break more sticks 
hitting the rims.... I always wanted to learn the guitar but (sigh) I 
haven't the patience and it hurts my fingers!!!!! 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 20:33:18
Message Number 12835

SS: Citibank and other have not mercy. 
None whatsoever!!! But Discovery card gives you $$$$ back. Wow, I got 
a whole 6 cents last year!!!!!
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/26/91 20:34:39
Message Number 12836

Log off???? Me???? Not on your life, Darlin'. I love it here.... I'm 
in here twice a day, sometimes more! Without Alter Reality, my brain 
would turn to Mush!!!! Besides, I'd miss Turtle always being right. It 
keeps me in my place. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 20:36:37
Message Number 12837

Dear "Fellow Pervert". Saavik? Bi-Sexual? Not in this life time. I like 
men too much. And what do I care???? I think Ginger Lynn is sexy too. 
So is Barbara Dare..., but when I watch a porn flick, I'm not paying too
much attention to the women, if ya know what I mean.....
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: A.C.O.A.       
Date & Time: 02/26/91 20:38:45
Message Number 12838

I am sorry that your mother was so hard to deal with. Men need strong 
female (role molels? wrong word but you know what I mean) when they 
are young. The men I know that get along best with women are the ones 
who had good relationships with sisters and/or their mother. 
My father was too drunk to play mind games, thank god. He didn't just 
drink a little and get nasty...., he drank so much, he couldn't stand 
up. Every night..... same old thing. It was rotten but it would have 
been worse if he were a "mean drunk". 
Manipulation breeds mistrust, as you well know. But do you find that 
you are drawn to manipulating women because of it??? I've heard this 
l
from other men. They didn't get along with their mothers, yet they ended
up with women who were somehow like their moms. Same goes for women. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: GROUCHO             
Subject: Observations   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 20:46:47
Message Number 12839

Yes, I have watched children interact. I have two little ones myself. 
They may be "natural" but children tend to think in the "me" mode. 
"What can this toy do for Me?" Sharing, for instance, is learned..... 
not natural. Thank the Gods that we are creatures who learn as we grow.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Freindship     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:03:58
Message Number 12840

JB>Thing [think?] about how little a value you just put on a 
JB>friendship.
 
All friendships are transitory.  Period.  Everybody you know, and 
that means EVERYBODY, is someday going to be only a memory.  So,
why bother?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Book           
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:05:52
Message Number 12841

Great!  Maybe it'll give me an insight into what you may be thinking 
that *I'm* thinking.  
 
If Turtle goes for the idea, good...I'll pick it up after work whenever
is convenient for him.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: GROUCHO             
Subject: Killer Instinct
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:08:11
Message Number 12842

Hello, homophobes are us...
 
Way ta go, Groucho...you just pressed my button.  Lemme set you straight
on one thing before I continue...I am not a homophobe. This is not 
open for debate; don't bother to contest it.
 
I do advocate personal freedom.  If I didn't, I would be out actively
campaigning to have homos put away for thier particular mental defect.
 
If my tirades amuse you, then so be it...at least you won't "go off" 
with blathing nonsense about "They are people too (yes, but sick ones)
You are a homophobe (more utter nonsense) or any of the other generic
phrases that "enlightened" (meaning people who don't know what sick is)
people routinely use at me. 
 
As for what type of upbringing, one that was strict.  My familiy doesn't
have a lot of emotional scenes, and "love" is acknowledged but not 
often discussed.  I was told not to cry, which suits me anyway, because
in school, it wasn't much of an asset.  My father knows that homos are
sick, most of the people I know believe the same way.  (Not that my
father had much of an influence on me, because he aslo hates blacks. I
am pretty ambivalent.)  
 
Amusing enough?  Fine.  Don't bother to reply.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: <Continuing>   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:19:28
Message Number 12843

SS>Just for the record, I skipped over all that /junk/ and I mean /junk/
T>if you didn't read it, you have no right to respond to it...or even
T>to call it "junk".
 
Nicely put!  I also like the way you ignored the rest of his message.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: The Band       
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:21:04
Message Number 12844

T>There was talk about starting a band...but it seems to have stalled.
 
Well, I met the Lead Guitar...and I really feel like an ameteur next to
this guy...he is GOOD.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:22:38
Message Number 12845

T>I don't do credit cards.  If I can't afford it now, I can't afford it.
 
Ah, again...nicely put!  I agree 100%; I follow the same rule.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: <Starting>     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:26:04
Message Number 12846

Ok, I understand a little better...but let me pose a question to you.
Knowing that we cannot change the govnt, and if we did then we would
be no better than Hussien, do you still want to see Hussein gone?  If
so, then we would have to restore the previous govnt and hope that they
can by themselves get thier act together.
 The situation you described to me would be ideal, obviously. But It
Ain't Gonna Happen in the near future.  So, we have a choice...get rid
of Hussien or not get rid of Hussien (the govnt restored not 
withstanding).  Because obviously, the man has *got* to go.  Now, 
liberating Kuwait on the way is a fringe benifit, obviously the people
were not being treated as badly before as they are now.  (It's a 
relative thing.)
 
What do you tbink would have happened in the Arab world if Hussein were
assassinated?  Not in Iraq or Kuwait, what would have happened there is
not what I was asking.  What would have been the Arab's reaction?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What does it   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:31:59
Message Number 12847

TS>Need some help?
 
T>What are you doing Saturday morning?
 
Helping a prospecive Femme Companion move.  But JB already vetoed the
idea.  And I don't know Wratt anyway....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:35:44
Message Number 12848

SS>Hugs, yes I know, a firm handshake and maybe a hand on the shoulder
SS>what constitute a hug to you.
 
Gimme a break.  I just need my personal space...and I don't want to be 
touched, that's all.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Theragram      
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:36:58
Message Number 12849

TS>Gimme a break...
SS>Ok, hold out your neck.
 
[Obligingly holds out neck...]
 
SS>(Stole joke from the Specialist)
SS>So he gets the credit for that joke.)
 
Thank you!   Finally I get credit...y'know, I actually *do* have 
a sense of humor.  Well, I did, Scott borrowed it about a year and a
half ago and I haven't seen it since....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: <Continuing>   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:39:44
Message Number 12850

SS>you were just reiterating your position again.  Which you and the
SS>Specialist like to do....over and over gaihn.
 
And once again we have to listen to you grouse about it...so once again
I reply to you... 
 
 
Butt out.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:41:03
Message Number 12851

T>[didn't look at the Playboy pictures]
SS>Are your hormones working right?
 
Must be.  You heard what Beatle said, he's a real "babe magnet".
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:42:15
Message Number 12852

SS> I helped changed the engine out in his Dodge, you know.
 
Yes, and you were very helpfull.  Thank you.  A lot.  
 
(Very helpful...critical!  Couldn't have done it without him!!)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Jerks          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:45:27
Message Number 12854

S>I remember he had big muscles and a dark tan and a deep voice.
 
Nope.  Not the guy I know...though he already sounds like the exact
image of a full breed asshole.  Talks cocky and looks like an Adonis.
I hate that kind of guy, because he's big enough to get away with it.
Just burns me up....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:47:40
Message Number 12855

Welcome.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Right!         
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:48:08
Message Number 12856

S>I'd love to catch him just once.
 
Ding.
 
I have, though.  He's dead wrong about homos.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 21:48:54
Message Number 12857

S>Why shocked?  Why suprised?  Surely you don't watch porno flicks
S>ALONE do you?  ...(sly grin)
 
Actually, I don't remember the last time I sat down and watched a porno
flick, period.  Which is not suprising, considering I've been takinga 
vacation from women in general since I broke up with my last girlfriend,
and even then I didn't watch them, because she was religious.  And
even before then, I was taking a vacation (I tend to do this between
girlfriends; that way I forget why I wanted to break up...) from the
PREVIOUS girlfriend...so it's been QUITE a while since I saw one....
 
I guess my fav would be Hypatia Lee, though....
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 22:52:28
Message Number 12861

T> ...say, you know anything about automatic trannies? Hers is starting 
T> to slip between second and third...
 
Best thing to do in case it slips is try changing the fluid and replacin
with fresh along with a can of AT conditioner which kinda coats the
bands and makes 'em "stickier".  Aside from that it's rebuild city - 
I CAN say stay the hell away from the bandits at AAMCO.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 22:55:08
Message Number 12862

T> Well, hell. Here I go and say "Sure, c'mon over," and you nix it.
 
Well shoot - it's just that I have always firmly believed (and had 
numerous proofs) that "too many hands spoil the <fill in blank>".  I
tend to stand back when the mechanical Rambo's of the world start 
charging in so I wouldn't be in the way long...  'course at that
point I'm an innocent bystander and just watch.  I guess I probably
don't need Lori's book - we'll play it by ear (strange vision of
a man with a carburetor jammed in ear blowing on air cleaner just
wafted by my warped minds eye).  See ya Saturday noonish.
 
                                        JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:01:01
Message Number 12863

SS> Hey, I have a sick '78 Chevette. Won't start, won't 
SS> run - want to take a look?
 
Shoot the poor bastard and let it take it chances that it will return
with a "Corv" on the name instead of "Chev".
 
                         A transcendental resurrected recycled JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:03:18
Message Number 12864

SA> Are is your hormones working right? 
 
Now wait a minnit!  I'll admit that the babes are not that hard to look
at (and they apparently don't mind) but if I pay the kind of money that
Playboy asks - there had damned well better be some info under the
covers <snurk> besides paper fantasies.  So what is the fascination 
with pictures of nude babes?  I have nudes of most of my girlfriends
that I took (being a photographer) but they actually mean something to
me and are not up for public display and I seldom even drag them out.
Secondary stimulation just don't get it for this kid - I wanna touch,
talk, joke and share.
	                          A non-paper tiger JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: GROUCHO             
Subject: Observations   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:13:28
Message Number 12865

GR>Wouldn't it be nice if adults could act more like kids in this 
GR> respect?
 
Anyone who believes in the fundamental goodness of man has never 
watched a child play...
                                       Mark Twain
 
I'm with my hero and inspiration on this one.  Absolutely noone can be
as cruel and insensitive as a child.   Read any good Piaget lately?
Most of a childs interactions are a result of them externalizing
their understanding of the world and thereby reinforcing those 
understandings.  Trick is when the understandings are faulty as they
are bound to be when treading on the new ground of interpersonal
relationships.  I'd rather try and relate to an old person that has
finally realized that it just doesn't matter worth a damn in the long
run.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Freindship     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:20:11
Message Number 12866

TS> that means EVERYBODY, is someday going to be only a memory.  So, 
TS> why bother?
 
That's pretty heavy Dave.  It actually has a grain of truth in it too
but... when all things are relative you still end up with the hate of
an enemy on one end of the scale and the love of a friend on the other
and you assign a value to these realtionships - or have you just 
decided that you won't have any of those of any kind?  If you have ever 
experienced the joy of a true friend it isn't something that you can
cast off lightly.  Of course - there isn't hardly a worse pain than
a friendship betrayed either.  I just went through one of those but -
maybe we'll talk about it over a beer sometime.  I still would not
hesitate to do it again just for the years of joy that the friendship
involved.
                                   A pained-but-alive JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: The Band       
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:26:52
Message Number 12867

TS> Well, I met the Lead Guitar...and I really feel like an ameteur next
TS> this guy...he is GOOD. 
 
Whose this?  I sem to remember someone else that said he played lead
but my memory is going...
                               JonBoy on Toast
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: What does it   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:28:43
Message Number 12868

TS> But JB already vetoed the idea.  And I don't know Wratt anyway.... 
 
Whoa hoss!  I wouldn't call that a veto and I sure as heck ain't 
gonna say no.  I merely made the observation that too many hands 
that are actually in the game can screw it up. So I pin your hand to 
Turtle's table with a phillips screwdriver for dropping the checkball 
to the accelerator pump.  You'll get over it and blood dries to a 
lovely rusty color on the carpet...  You could drop by to pick up the 
book and say howdy...
                              JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:33:58
Message Number 12869

TS> I was taking a vacation (I tend to do this between girlfriends;
 
Huh - me too - I guess you just have to wait until a buildup of
hormones finally overcomes your better sense!
 
                                A cynical-JonBoy
The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those
who don't possess it...
                          George Bernard Shaw
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: <Continuing>   
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:42:55
Message Number 12870

>You were just reiterating your position, again.
 
No, I was explaining why I have that position, what things led me
to that conclusion, and under what circumstances I would change my
position. If you didn't read the message, don't be responding to it
like you know what you're talking about.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Playboy        
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:44:28
Message Number 12871

>Are your hormones working right?
 
Well, I think they are...haven't had any complaints recently, anyway.
So call me easily distracted...the articles distract me from the pics.
(Like pictures of nude women are anything terribly special to begin
with...)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: <Starting>     
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:46:04
Message Number 12872

>Like I said, over and over and over again.
 
Yes, you DO keep saying it over and over and over again...and I bet you
still haven't read what you're replying to.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:46:59
Message Number 12873

Gods below, how many people who call A/R does it take to rebuild a
carburetor??
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Right!         
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:50:48
Message Number 12874

>I'd love to catch him JUST ONCE.
 
No doubt. *smirk* Well, it's been known to happen...........
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Bass           
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:53:38
Message Number 12875

>Well, you played the bass drum, didn't ya????
 
Yak! Well, in a manner of speaking, I guess it's a bass, kinda,
maybe...but it doesn't have strings. Neither does it deal too well
with seaweed.
 
>Why stalled? Styx broke?
 
No, me broke. Me no can afford a drum kit of my own, and the person who
owned one that I used no longer lives in the same city as I do. It's
been years and years and years and years...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Dr. Turtle???  
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:56:18
Message Number 12876

>Maybe they should call this board, eh? Get educated. "Calling Dr.
>Turtle------The LOVE Broker."
 
Oh, good. Just what I need. More ammunition for the malpractice suits--
and isn't that love broker bit illegal in this state? Yep, sounds like
a great plan...we'll have the ol' reptile in prison yet. Nah,
Social Darwinism works better...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/26/91 23:58:55
Message Number 12877

S>T>They (Aardvarks) do make a mean sandwich...
 
That ought to be "They (Greeks) do make a mean sandwich..."
 
Nope, never saw "Steel Magnolias." I make a point to steer away from
anything that puts Meryl Streep and Shirley the Loon--er, Maclain
in the same screen at the same time. Besides, it didn't have starships,
people with large automatic weapons, swordplay, eccentric geniuses
flooding college dorms with liquid nitrogen, or any of the other things
that make a movie worth watching, so what's the point?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:04:24
Message Number 12878

>Oh, you sensible, responcible person, you.
 
Stop that. I pride myself on being the paragon of irresponsibility.
I'm certain The Specialist would be willing to attest to that point,
if for no other reason than he loves picking out my character flaws,
real and imagined.
 
>I, too have seen the light.
 
The Way of the Aardvark?
 
>Credit cards are the root of all evil......
 
Jesse Helms is the root of all evil.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Playboy        
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:08:58
Message Number 12879

Considering the caliber of the people who write for Playboy
(Isaac Asimov, Harlan Ellison, Paul Thereaux, Arthur C. Clarke),
anyone who buys Playboy and /doesn't/ read it ought to be executed
or at least branded a Philistine and sent to live in exile in
Plains, Georgia.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:11:35
Message Number 12880

>The only difference I can come up with is that when men flirt it's
>up to them to take it the step further.
 
Since when?? It's been my experience that women are just as capable as
men at "taking it the step further"--you mean you always expect that
to be the /man's/ job?? It takes two to tango, and either one can
lead...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: GROUCHO             
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:17:01
Message Number 12881

>...what would a future generation think of the things you had
>written, when the "frame of reference" was gone.
 
That one ought to get you, oh, five or six years in Purgatory... :)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:24:25
Message Number 12882

>Besides, I'd miss Turtle always being right. It keeps me in my
>place.
 
*snort*
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Men & Women    
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:27:59
Message Number 12883

>The men I know who get along best with women had the best
>relationships with a sister and/or mother...
 
Not me...I got along with dear old Mom but Sis and I hate one another
with a bloody passion. (I've broken her nose twice...) Like any other
learned skill, the ability to get along well with women does not /have/
to be learned at home. Slippery beasts, human beings. Always violating
generalities.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Friendship     
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:31:00
Message Number 12884

>So, why bother?
 
Because it's still one of the most satisfying things you can possibly
do? I used to be in hostile-aloof mode, but I am pretty damn glad I
changed. Sure, friendships aren't permanent fixtures...but then again,
neither is anything else. What's your point?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:33:39
Message Number 12885

>I agree 100%; I follow the same rule.
 
AAAAIIIGGGHHH!!!! This is happening far, far too frequently lately.
You noticed that?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: <Starting>     
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:35:23
Message Number 12886

>What do you tbink would have happened in the Arab world if
>Hussein were assassinated?
 
Little that hasn't happened by the presence of a large U.S. military
force in the region to begin with. Either way, some of the extremists
are gonna be upset. I think in the long run a simple assassination would
be LESS irritating than the continual presence of U.S. troops, even for
a brief while; after all, it wouldn't make for thousands of grieving
Iraquis with /personal/ vendettas against the good ol' U.S. of A.
Given the choice, I would still like to see Hussein go bye-bye.
 
I will say, though, I am happy the allied forces have been doing as well
as they have, and with as few casualties on the friendly side. If you
ARE going to pull a full-scale military action, might as well do it 
right. While I don't agree with a lot fo the actions we've been taking
in that area of the world, I've been highly impressed with the way we've
been taking them.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Personal space 
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:42:17
Message Number 12887

>I just need my personal space...and I don't want to be touched, that's
>all.
 
I know where that one's coming from; I used to deck people who touched
me. Not any more, though--it's more fun sharing personal space
(at least with members of the opposite sex). More intimate
than sex with fewer problems.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: <Continuing>   
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:46:56
Message Number 12888

>...so once again I reply to you...
>
>Butt out.
 
Nicely said.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Right!         
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:50:50
Message Number 12889

>I have, though. He's dead wrong about homos.
 
*snort* Dead wrong about what, not caring who they're sleeping with?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: carbs          
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:53:43
Message Number 12891

>...we'll play it by ear.
 
I have the thingie whatsit that came with the rebuild kit, but I
think it's in French and Japanese. You read Japanese?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Playboy & You  
Date & Time: 02/27/91 00:57:31
Message Number 12892

>So what is the fascination with pictures of nude babes?
 
I know several artists who have what might be called a "professional
interest;" ditto for a couple of exotic dancers I know. Other than
that, I dunno. Frustration, mebbe?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: Let's Party!   
Date & Time: 02/27/91 01:02:15
Message Number 12893

                             FURRY PARTY
                        F U R R Y   P A R T Y
                   F  U  R  R  Y     P  A  R  T  Y
                   -------------------------------
 
WHEN:    Saturday, March 23rd, 1991.
WHERE:   Turtle's apartment, 1895 Shadowood, on US 301 by the airport.
WHY:     To kill two birds with one stone (to celebrate the occasion of
         Turtle's birth, and to remedy the fact that it's been several
         months since the last A/R Florida Furry Party).
WHAT:    The usual--animation, conversation, juggling foxes, mayhem,
         noise, rutabaga sacrifice, synchronized jumping...and hopefully
         nobody's windows get shot out.
WHO:     Any sapient being posessed of sufficient intelligence to be
         able to use a language to communicate the idea that he, she, or
         it is there voluntarily. The coercion committee will be
         rounding up the guests of honor this time around.
 
Need further information? Drop a message. This furry party will probably
start at about 5 PM Saturday and end at 6 PM Sunday, or until the
police arrive, whichever shall be earlier. Mountain Dew cheerfully
provided.
 
May the Aardvark of Happiness lick your toes.
 
(c) 1990 Anarchy Now, Inc. An Anarchy Now, Inc. production. No
warranties expressed or implied.
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: A.C.O.A.       
Date & Time: 02/27/91 01:30:19
Message Number 12894

S> I cannot remember him not drinking.
I didn't 'know' my dad straight either. I didn't learn 'til my early 
teens that our family wasn't no That and the my health didn't mix 
too well. 
My parents used to go to 'Tim's bar, making my sister & I wait in the 
car. Surprisingly, there were no accidents or DUI convictions at all.
 
The paychecks always made it home and we were well cared for ('cept for
the booze). Despite the alcoholism, My fathe cared about our welfare
(food, clothes, etc.).
 
Knowing now, what you've told me; I feel quite fortunate. 
 
SEE YA!
Knight Owl
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Drums          
Date & Time: 02/27/91 03:29:32
Message Number 12896

Yeah, I went through sticks like they were going out of style. I even 
broke a cymbal once, a thin Zildjian crash.  I'm presently taking 
lessons on the guitar from the Specialist, who, I might add, is an 
excellent guitar player.  He just won't admitted it. 
Do you have a set now? 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic money  
Date & Time: 02/27/91 03:31:45
Message Number 12897

Aaaawwwkkk, 6 cents! That's ridiculous. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/27/91 03:32:40
Message Number 12898

Yeah, I log on twice a day too.  That way I can keep up with the
messages.  Hell, I logged on at 4:30 this afternoon and when I logged 
back on now (3:32 am) I had sixty new messages to read.  I don't even 
want to think what I would face if I logged on once a day. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Barbara Dare   
Date & Time: 02/27/91 03:35:01
Message Number 12899

Yeah, I don't pay a whole lot of attention to the guys either...if ya 
know what I mean...Yes, Barbara Dare is sexy, but not as sexy as Ginger.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: A.C.O.A.       
Date & Time: 02/27/91 03:37:00
Message Number 12900

Well, not at the outset.  I mean I don't ask a girl if she's 
manipulative.  But I'd say about fifty percent of past girlfriend have 
been. 
I won't say what I've done to change that. hehehehe
===========

