
84476 30-DEC 17:21 General Information
     RE: KBCOM (Re: Msg 84464)
     From: ISC          To: AYUSKO

Alex,

Also, <grin> Dave(MITHELEN)'s name is Paul!

Bill

-*-

84487 31-DEC 06:31 General Information
     RE: KBCOM (Re: Msg 84476)
     From: AYUSKO       To: ISC

Thanks, I read that already. Thought he was Paul. :-)
   Alex A. Yusko (AYUSKO)

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84477 30-DEC 20:28 OSK Applications
     RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84284)
     From: HAWKSOFT     To: NIMITZ

Hi Dave!!!
 Let me (us) know when the driver update disk is ready. I have $15 in my hand!!

:-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> Chris <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-:

-*-

84586 3-JAN 07:21  OSK Applications
     RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84354)
     From: ZOGSTER      To: CBJ

>  I do not have an account on CIS either.  You ask why?  What is the minimum
> charge for an account on CIS? ...

The prices on CI$ has dropped a little but if you add it up it is over
5 times more expensive for me to use CI$ (download/forums).  Their
current prices are:

1) $8 a month Basic fee (unlimited time within Basic menus, telcom
   surcharges do apply see #3).
2) $8 an hour for 1200/2400 baud access, $16 an hour for 9600 baud
   access (I think 4800 is also $16 an hour), for non-basic services
   such as forums and databases, etc...
3) $2 an hour surcharge for evening use of Tymnet/Sprintnet, more
   for daytime and 800 access.

So for me to use CI$ for say 10 minutes a day (at 2400 baud, evening tymnet)
times 30 days is 300 minutes a month equals 5 hours of online time.
$10 an hour ($8+$2 surcharge per hour) times 5 hours is $50 plus the $8 per
month membership fee.  This does not count additional hours of basic
service at $2 an hour or email and other fees.

Now you know why Compuserve has it's nickname CI$.

Jim Vestal, assitant editor of the OS-9 Underground.


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84478 30-DEC 21:00 Telecom (6809)
     RE: BBS (Re: Msg 84471)
     From: NEALSTEWARD  To: REVWCP

We (Erie County Color Computer Club) use OS9 Level II BBS originally
from Alpha Software Technologies and now I think Rick's Computer
Enterprise carries it.  It is extremely easy to modify, customize
and run external programs from and is farily bulletproof.  The only
problem is it is not compatible with Shell+, but I suppose a good
hacker could fix that.  If you want to check it out, give it a call
at (716)649-1368.  I just checked, the entire CocoPro! package sells
for $55 from Rick's.  That includes the BBS, Presto Partner, Simply
Better WP, V-Term, Data Windows, Multi-Menus, Newspaper09, News
Fonts, Tools II, Ddisk Manager Tree, Level II Tools, Data Merger,
and Solitaire.  Most of them are OS-9 and many of the Utilities
are excellent.  I have most of them and recommend the package because
it costs less than I paid for any 2 of them!


-*-

84479 30-DEC 21:59 Telecom (6809)
     RE: BBS (Re: Msg 84471)
     From: CBJ          To: REVWCP

Rev,
     The CoCo can handle it.  I'm running 4 serial ports (2 modems, a nullmodem
to an AT clone and a terminal) on mine with no major problems.  I am also using
a 1 Meg Ram pak and four hard drives through Disto equipment.  The main system
is a 1MEG CoCo (soon to be replaced ith 2 MEGs.  I am also going to add to the
system a Ken-ton SCSI interface.  The hole system runs under StG.  This is the
best BBS software for my purposes.  It is very complete and very powerful.  It
is also fairly Bug Free.  If you are interested I can give you more details.
Car}i{_S|0Asl

-*-

84485 31-DEC 02:59 Telecom (6809)
     RE: BBS (Re: Msg 84479)
     From: MITHELEN     To: CBJ

Ya.. StG V3 is pretty stable... The "chat" program doesn't currently support
more then two people chatting at a time, but would be relitively easy
to modify. It is written in C... And I have the source to it still (I think 8-)
Unforch, I don't have the developement libraries to compile changes, and have
no practical way to test any changes I made... I would be willing to send the
source to chat to a person willing to implement adding multi-person chat.

BTW, StG is capable of handleing 8 users/lines at one time.
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84497 1-JAN 10:22  Telecom (6809)
     RE: BBS (Re: Msg 84471)
     From: SROTTINGER   To: REVWCP

RCIS has a full-featured conferecing system that supports up to 32 users;
however, the CoCo can only handle about 2-4 reliably.  I've been running the
BBS on my CoCo for about 5 years, with two lines. Now its running on my MM/1.
If you would like to check it out, the BBS # is 201-967-1061. The CoCo version
of RCIS is now offered on a shareware basis.

-Steve Rottinger

-*-

84504 1-JAN 14:22  Telecom (6809)
     RE: BBS (Re: Msg 84497)
     From: REVWCP       To: SROTTINGER

Dear Steve:
Where would I be able to find an OS9/6809 version of RCIS?
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User's Group Treasurer

-*-

84543 2-JAN 11:58  Telecom (6809)
     RE: BBS (Re: Msg 84504)
     From: SROTTINGER   To: REVWCP

You can pick up a copy from my BBS at (201)967-1061. Unfortunately, i'm not
too sure how complete the archive is. There are over a hundred files that make
up
the package, and its been a while since I've run it on the CoCo. However, if you

are truely interested, we'll get you up and running.

-Steve

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84480 30-DEC 22:55 General Information
     SCSI
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: ALL

Does anyone have any info or specs on a Miniscribe 8425SA 20meg SCSI drive?
Any help is appreciated. <Phil>

-*-

84482 30-DEC 23:40 General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84480)
     From: REVWCP       To: PHILSCHERER

Dear Phil:
Mike Guzzi uploaded a whole bunch of information on Harddrives.  I'm not
sure if they were only Seagates, or if they included MiniScribe.
--Br. Jeremy

-*-

84484 31-DEC 02:11 General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84480)
     From: FHOGG        To: PHILSCHERER

We used to use the 8425 non SCSI drive. All of the 20 meggers had the same
specs for compatibility with IBM. 615 cyls, 4 heads is all I4 heads is all I
remember. Oh 32 sectors per track. Hope that helps.

Frank

-*-

84489 31-DEC 19:15 General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84482)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: REVWCP

Thanks Br. Jeremy--I'll look for it! <Phil>

-*-

84490 31-DEC 19:17 General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84484)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: FHOGG

Thanks for the input Frank!! <Phil>

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84481 30-DEC 23:35 Programmers Den
     RE: Database in C (Re: Msg 84363)
     From: CHYDE        To: FRANCALCRAFT

I'm sure someone else has already mentioned this, but I'll tell you before
reading the rest of the thread <g>.  You don't have to treat your .r files
as libaries, treat them as seaperate files to link.  I don't use cc (I
prefer to use my memory for other things <G>), but I'm sure you'll be able
to link everything using the following command:

 cc os9top.c os9search.r os9chdel.r os9enter.r keyword.r -l=/d2/lib/cgfx.l

The precompiler (cc) should compile the .c file to a .r file then link in
all the .r files on the command line and finally link to the libraries

(oops wrong key).  As an aside a single .r file is not really a library and
so there is no reason to treat it like one.  If you want you can merge all
your .r files together into a single file and treat that like a lib file.
Read page B-5 of the compiler manual for info about user defined libraries.
and pages 1-13 and 1-14 for info about using the compiler (cc1, cc should
implement the same features).

Hope this helps, some.

        Chris

-*-

84774 9-JAN 01:36  Programmers Den
     RE: Database in C (Re: Msg 84481)
     From: FRANCALCRAFT To: CHYDE

Thanks for the info.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84486 31-DEC 03:37 General Information
     HAPPY NEW YEAR
     From: EDELMAR      To: ALL

 Betty and I wish all a very Healthy, Happy and Prosperous New Year.

 Betty and Ed Gresick

-*-

84488 31-DEC 18:19 General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84417)
     From: EDELMAR      To: JOEL,RANDY,K (NR)

 Randy, Ken, Joel and other interested parties -

 First some good news.  I just received 2 additional orders for the G-WINDOWS
 port.  That makes 12.  Only 8 to go.

 Went over all the pertinent messages and Mike Sweet's file.  Think I have a
 little better undertanding of K-Windows.

 I'm concentrating on ways G-WINDOWS can co-exist with K-Windows under all
 circumstances.  I see no reason G-WINDOWS can't be started from a K-Windows
 screen.  When exiting G-WINDOWS, the user would return to the original screen.
 There should be no need for a separate bootdisk.  However, the Fn keys would
 not be used to exit G-WINDOWS; rather, it appears the best way is to exit is
 to add the exit routine to one of G-WINDOWS' menus.

 Because of the way wcf traps keyboard certain information, the output of
 snddrv.mm1 will have to go directly to G-WINDOWS when G-WINDOWS is the active
 screen.  A little tinkering with the respective paths should prevent K-Windows
 from doing unexpected things to G-WINDOWS.  When exiting G-WINDOWS, all paths
 will be restored.  Since I'll be mucking around with paths, it might be
 desirable to tinker with the mouse path as well.

 The above should work fine so long as no attempts are made to hot-key between
 screens.  Hot-keying poses another set of problems.  Starting G-WINDOWS
 is no problem but probably the use a separate screen to start G-WINDOWS, as
 suggested by Joel, is the way to go.  A menu item can be used to send
 K-Windows the code to return to the original screen from which other screens
 could be selected.  At the same time, paths would be restored.  So far, no
 problem.  When the user tries to return to G-WINDOWS, it doesn't know it is
 the active process - this is the problem.

 The method I'm leaning towards to solve the hot-key problem is to have
 G-WINDOWS start a separate process (call it snoopy) when it's being
 initialized.  Snoopy's main function would be to do the necessary 'switching'
 to insure keyboard and mouse information went to the proper manager.  To do
 this, snoopy would query wcf periodically to find which screen is active.
 This solution is rather crude (brute force) but will require no changes
 to K-Windows.  One  big question is what is meant by 'periodically'.  The
 period wants to long enough so the overhead introduced is not perceptable.
 But it wants to be short enough so switching between G-WINDOWS and other
 screens 'feels' instantaneous to the user.  Snoopy could also trigger redraw-
 ing the G-WINDOWS screen in case it had been corrupted by inadvertantly drag-
 ging another screen to the screen displaying G-WINDOWS.

 There is a more elegant solution but this requires a change to K-Windows
 (wcf).  Simply, there would be a data module associated with K-Windows.  A
 process that didn't want to avail itself of the editing and trapping features
 of wcf would write its screen number in the data module.  Wcf would be
 modified so keyboard/mouse information would follow one of 2 paths.  The first
 path would be the existing path which includes the editing/trapping features.
 The second path would by-pass these features and pass all the keyboard/mouse
 information to the process.  The second path would be selected for those
 processes which have identified themselves in the data module.  One other
 capability must be added when in the by-pass mode.  Something along the use
 of a 'meta-character' would be necessary to permit changing screens.  When
 in the by-pass mode, wcf would examine input for this character.  If present,
 the data following would follow the normal path.  It might be desirable to
 include this character in the data module so a process could specify its own,
 unique metacharacter.  Not only would G-WINDOWS benefit from this (makes for
 a straight forward port) but programmers could avail themselves of the keys
 now prohibited to them.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO


-*-

84492 1-JAN 00:01  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84488)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: EDELMAR

Ed,

 > First some good news.  I just received 2 additional orders for the
 > G-WINDOWS port.  That makes 12.  Only 8 to go.

Great!

 > There should be no need for a separate bootdisk.  However, the Fn keys
 > would not be used to exit G-WINDOWS; rather, it appears the best way is to
 > exit is to add the exit routine to one of G-WINDOWS' menus.

You can program the fnkeys to return values if you like (with display
codes), so if that's easy for you it can be done.  I don't believe the
display codes are in Mike Sweet's documentation file, but I have the
codes if you need them (thanks to Zack!).

 > Because of the way wcf traps keyboard certain information, the output of
 > snddrv.mm1 will have to go directly to G-WINDOWS when G-WINDOWS is the
 > active screen.

I'm a little confused about the above... I'm not aware of any "output"
coming from snddrv.mm1.

 > Since I'll be mucking around with paths, it might
 > be desirable to tinker with the mouse path as well.

I'm not sure there is a path to be messed with... the mouse is all
handled from the start by K-Windows, and you just request packets of
mouse info from windio.  I would think it would be easy to accept the
K-Windows info for use with G-Windows.  Keep in mind, though, that
Button C (3rd button) on the mouse hot-keys to a new K-Window, so you
really can't use that button.  Is that a problem?

 > The above should work fine so long as no attempts are made to hot-key
 > between screens.  Hot-keying poses another set of problems.  Starting
 > A menu item can be
 > used to send K-Windows the code to return to the original screen from
 > which other screens could be selected.  At the same time, paths would be
 > restored.  So far, no problem.  When the user tries to return to
 > G-WINDOWS, it doesn't know it is the active process - this is the
 > problem.

I don't think it would be too big of a problem, actually.  All K-Windows
does to switch screens is tell the VSC chip a new location for video
memory, so the screens are not disturbed, so if I hot-key outta my
G-Windows screen, it really shouldn't matter to G-Windows whether or not
I did.  All that matters is if a mouse button is clicked, that G-Windows
check "ms.pt_valid" to make sure the mouseclick was on the G-Windows
screen.  That would be how I would check to make sure the G-Windows
process is active (onscreen).



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84495 1-JAN 02:21  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84492)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: EDELMAR

Ed,

  I'm gonna read your message in detail off line (after some sleep :), but I
did see one problem. Snddrv, Keydrv, and Msdrv are all submodules to Windio.
There is no device descriptors associated with the devices/drivers, and hence
no way to open a seperate path to them. Right now, you have to go through
windio to get at these devices.

  Randy

-*-

84508 1-JAN 17:10  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84492)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: JOELHEGBERG

 > I did.  All that matters is if a mouse button is clicked, that G-Windows
 > check "ms.pt_valid" to make sure the mouseclick was on the G-Windows


The pt_valid byte was not supported in early versions of KWindows. Being
so, I took out the checking for it in every program I ported over to
KWindows from L2, and haven't really made an effort to put checks for it
in new code.

Have you verified that it indeed is supported now and works as one would
expect it to?

(Mike Haaland: any comment on this?)

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84533 2-JAN 03:30  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84508)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: COLORSYSTEMS

 > The pt_valid byte was not supported in early versions of KWindows. Being
 > so, I took out the checking for it in every program I ported over to
 > KWindows from L2, and haven't really made an effort to put checks for it
 > in new code.
 >
 > Have you verified that it indeed is supported now and works as one would
 > expect it to?

Yep, it works great now... it must have been in very early versions,
since I've been using it for a long time now.  In some newer versions of
Write-Right!, if pt_valid goes FALSE, I shade the menu-bar to show the
window isn't selected (useful when you have multiple windows on a
screen), and shade back when pt_valid goes TRUE... since that works
perfectly, I'm certain it works like it should.



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84545 2-JAN 16:27  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84492)
     From: EDELMAR      To: JOELHEGBERG


 Joel,

 > You can program the fnkeys to return values if you like (with display
 > codes), so if that's easy for you it can be done.

 I understood the fn keys were hardcoded to select/change windows? Not so???
 If they're changed (under K-Windows) how do you select other screens?

 > I'm a little confused about the above... I'm not aware of any "output"
 > coming from snddrv.mm1.

 Me too!  Meant keydrv.  (See my message to Randykwilson.)

 > ... and you just request packets of mouse info from windio.

 Requesting packets of mouse info would slow things down.  G-WINDOWS expects
 current mouse info in the appropriate variables whenever mouse events occur.
 I think it would be better to use a separate mouse descriptor and a G-WINDOWS
 mouse driver that references msdrv.

 Re "ms.pt_valid" - not in Sweet's docs.  Sounds like it might be usefull.
 What does it do?

 Ed

-*-

84546 2-JAN 16:27  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84495)
     From: EDELMAR      To: RANDYKWILSON


  Randy

 First, correction to my previous post.  I referenced snddrv - should have
 been keydrv.  What does 'snddrv' do?

 Re snddrv, keydrv and msdrv being submodules to windio -
 While these may be submodules to windio, according to Sweet's writeup, they
 are separate modules.  As such they may be accessible to another driver or
 manager.

 I don't understand the following -
 > There is no device descriptors associated with the devices/drivers, and
 > hence no way to open a seperate path to them.

 Unless something extremely unusual is being done, isn't each w(n) a
 descriptor?

 While a descriptor may be a dummy, it must contain the name of the driver
 and manager per OS9 rules - the kernel needs this information.  (It is also
 possible to have a dummy driver.)  A driver may be split into 2 or more
 modules.  This is not uncommon with SCSI drivers.

 So, why can't I have a descriptor called wx, which names keydrv as the driver
 and something else as the manager?  Admittedly, keydrv may not do what I
 think it does; i.e., convert the keyboard codes to ASCII, etc. codes and
 it might be incomplete - lacking init, term, interrupt, etc. routines.

 If it turns out that keydrv can't be used, then I'll just have to write
 a separate keyboard driver (probably just modify one I have).  Again, the
 same is true of msdrv if it isn't usable.

 Ed

-*-

84547 2-JAN 16:46  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84533)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: JOELHEGBERG

Hmm, looks like I need to go back and add code to check for it, then!!

Thanks.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84549 2-JAN 17:00  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84546)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: EDELMAR

 > I don't understand the following -
 > > There is no device descriptors associated with the devices/drivers,
 > and > hence no way to open a seperate path to them.
 >
 > Unless something extremely unusual is being done, isn't each w(n) a
 > descriptor?
 >
 > While a descriptor may be a dummy, it must contain the name of the
 > driver and manager per OS9 rules - the kernel needs this information.  (It
 > is also possible to have a dummy driver.)  A driver may be split into 2 or
 > more modules.  This is not uncommon with SCSI drivers.

I think what he was talking about is that using msdrv, there is no device
desriptor in memory which msdrv uses to talk to the mouse. If you do an
MDIR command, you see no device assiciated with /t2. And when you run a
DEVS command, you see nothing for it either. It is somehow "part of" msdrv.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84564 2-JAN 22:58  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84546)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: EDELMAR

Ed,

 >Re snddrv, keydrv and msdrv being submodules to windio -
 >While these may be submodules to windio, according to Sweet's writeup, they
 >are separate modules.  As such they may be accessible to another driver or
 >manager.

 >I don't understand the following -
 >> There is no device descriptors associated with the devices/drivers, and
 >> hence no way to open a seperate path to them.

 I meant there are no descriptors that point directly to keydrv or msdrv. The
Wx descriptors point to WindIO and WCF. At init, Windio finds and "installs"
the various sub-drivers it needs (keydrv, msdrv), and sets them up. All
comunication is then done through the data module WData. There is no seperate
path to the keyboard, or mouse, that can be disconnected from a Windio device
and used  for other means.

 >...

 >So, why can't I have a descriptor called wx, which names keydrv as the driver
 >and something else as the manager?  Admittedly, keydrv may not do what I
 >think it does; i.e., convert the keyboard codes to ASCII, etc. codes and
 >it might be incomplete - lacking init, term, interrupt, etc. routines.

 Almost. key/snd/msdrv are submodules. We've been a bit charitable calling them
drivers. They are really *just* interrupt handlers, lacking read/write, *stat,
and maybe init/term routines. In addition to supporting the MM/1 in various
configurations, Kev had plans to port KWin to other platforms. I've heard he
had it running on his ST. So, like GWin, Kev broke the hardware specific stuff
out into seperate modules. Thinking about it, I'm surprised there isn't a
also a crtdrv.

 >If it turns out that keydrv can't be used, then I'll just have to write
 >a separate keyboard driver (probably just modify one I have).  Again, the
 >same is true of msdrv if it isn't usable.

 I believe that GWin will have to accept the data from keydrv and msdrv via
a path open to WindIO, or will have to totally replace KWin. Kwin was not
designed to have the hardware snatched away from it. And if you've ever fired
up STerm on a modem port that already was being used by TSMon/Login, you have
some idea of the conflicts that can arrise from to seperate procs trying to
access a single interupt driven channel. :>

  The mouse data is not a problem, I can assure you. Msdrv stores the mouse
position and button state in WData. All you have to do is read the correct
five bytes. I'm quite certain the screen-valid info can be found in there
also, but I'd have to research how. The only reason you would need to know
if the screen is valid is to determine if the mouse click, and keyboard input,
was meant for GWin, or a KWin app running on another screen. A KWin mouse
signal could be used. Many possibilities...

   The keyboard is my only question. Like the mouse, it could be done by
polling KWin, or using signals. But the big first question is if there are
any keys needed by GWin that conflict with KWin's cooking methods. You would
not have access to: F9-F12, <alt>F1-F12, or <cntrl> <arrows> and <enter>. You
also may be bitten by the keycode overlap caused, but *hopefully* this will
be addressed in the new KWin. Is there any conflict with GWin here? What
special keys does it require?

  Randy

-*-

84566 2-JAN 23:05  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84547)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack,
  Could you look into the valid bit? My number one programming aid, spider,
sometimes appears to get confused about what the mouse is doing. Mainly, the
"action" menu quits working; it pulls down, and zips right back up like a
broken  window shade. Never been able to determine what internal/external
event brings this on. But it does get annoying as the only fix is to kill
and restart spider. And, of course, it seems to happen when I have a high
win/lose ratio going. :>


  Randy

-*-

84572 3-JAN 00:21  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84564)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: RANDYKWILSON

 > The only reason you would
 > need to know if the screen is valid is to determine if the mouse click,
 > and keyboard input, was meant for GWin, or a KWin app running on another
 > screen. A KWin mouse signal could be used. Many possibilities...

Just to clarify something... you only need to use the pt_valid byte to
determine if the mouse data is valid for a given window... keyboard
input is only sent to a window if it's valid, so you don't have to check
pt_valid for keyboard stuff.


  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84573 3-JAN 00:21  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84566)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: RANDYKWILSON

 > Could you look into the valid bit? My number one programming aid,
 > spider, sometimes appears to get confused about what the mouse is doing.

I can assure you the valid byte works fine... what is Spider?  :)



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84574 3-JAN 00:21  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84545)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: EDELMAR

Ed,

 > I understood the fn keys were hardcoded to select/change windows? Not
 > so??? If they're changed (under K-Windows) how do you select other
 > screens?

K-Windows uses ALT+fnkey to select a screen, or just F9 and F10 to
rotate through screens.  F1 through F8 are programmable to return any
string of text you'd like (ASCII codes), so basically macro keys, but
they can be programmed to return a single or double keycode for
compatibility with G-Win.  But only F1-F8 works... cannot program keys
F9-F??, and only one macro per key, so you can't use ALT+fnkey or
CTRL+fnkey or SHIFT+fnkey, etc...

 > Requesting packets of mouse info would slow things down.  G-WINDOWS
 > expects current mouse info in the appropriate variables whenever mouse
 > events occur. I think it would be better to use a separate mouse
 > descriptor and a G-WINDOWS mouse driver that references msdrv.

I actually don't think it would slow stuff down much at all, at least I
haven't seen mouse reading add much overhead on my programs.  The only
reason I press the point is I think you will have a heck of a time
getting K-Windows to share the mouse port with another descriptor.  I
would say whenever there's a mouse event, just use _gs_mouse() call and
load the variables with the mouse info, and go from there.

 > Re "ms.pt_valid" - not in Sweet's docs.  Sounds like it might be
 > usefull. What does it do?

It's very useful.  It's defined as TRUE (1) whenever the screen is the
active K-Windows screen (user has selected that screen) and FALSE (0)
when the user has switched to another screen.  So, when pt_valid is
FALSE, you ignore any keyclicks your application may be sensing since
the user has clicked the mouse while viewing another window.  Usually,
your app should go to sleep for a brief period of time if pt_valid goes
false, since the user is trying to use another program in another
window, but this may not be suitable for G-Windows, since it's more an
environment and the user probably wants the other programs to keep
running which may require G-Windows stay "awake".



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84577 3-JAN 01:01  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84572)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: JOELHEGBERG

True, Joel, assuming that the keyboard data is coming in via Windio. I got
cconfused about which technic I was talking about at that instant. :>

  Randy

-*-

84579 3-JAN 01:05  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84577)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: RANDYKWILSON


> True, Joel, assuming that keyboard data is coming in via Windio.  I got
> confused about which techique I was talking about at that instant.  :>

Randy,

    That's the only technique I'm aware of at this time... if you know of
another one, I'd love to hear it!
It would be nice to have another way to read the keyboard.

  -- Joel.


-*-

84583 3-JAN 02:29  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84411)
     From: DIETER       To: SCWEGERT

 > > BTW, does the latest 68340-Windio (V51?) restore the pushbuttons, so you
 >  > can use KVed now?
 >  >
 >
 > FWIW, I'm running v51 of windio on a non accelerated MM/1, and KVED works
 > just dandy!
 >
 > *- Steve -*
 >

I'm using the 68340-windio (v51) and have the same problem with the mouse...


                       ---Dieter---

              **** Edited with KVed and ****
       *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 ***

-*-

84589 3-JAN 17:26  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84425)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: AJMLFCO

I have used all kinds of windowing systems, from OS/2 workplace shell
to unix XWindows, and put simply, I dont like single screen windowing systems
no matter how fancy the borders/scroll bars/etc are. I prefer multi-screen.
single screen like Gwindows, X, and MS Windows are nice, but when I want
to get some real work done, I find myself hunting for the clear key, which
on 3 of my 4 systems comes out as a "[" or "=" ...I am sure Gwin is a good
product..however..I have used X long enough to know that single screen
isnt for me..

-*-

84591 3-JAN 17:45  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84589)
     From: YKKID        To: ILLUSIONIST

I am not shure what you mean by these comments but Gwindows allows many screens
at once, if you want you can make 4 windows of equal size and 1/4 of the screen
with a shell active in each one, unlike the windowing system of OS9 level 2 on
the Coco.

-*-

84593 3-JAN 18:37  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84591)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: YKKID

Ah, sorry, but I think we have a definition problem here. GWindows can open
many windows, but all of them end up on a single screen. You can not open
windows having some on this screen, and some on that screen. This is what
Mike was saying, and I agree with him.

 Both Coco L2 and KWindows are multi-screen. Most people use this to put
one full sized window in a screen, and use as many screens as needed. But,
contrary to your statement, both the coco and KWin can put multiple windows
on a single screen. The CoCo would not allow overlapping them (tiling), but
KWin will. To me, this is the best approach.


  Randy

-*-

84612 3-JAN 23:17  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84573)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: JOELHEGBERG

 > I can assure you the valid byte works fine... what is Spider?  :)

It is a variation of Solitaire.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84618 4-JAN 02:58  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84591)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: YKKID

I am aware of that, and that is exactly what I am saying, and, a window or
equals size, to 3 other windows, all on the same screen at once, is NOT
the way I like to work. I _prefer_ the coco windowing system. I HAVE used
MS Windows, XWindows, and the Macintosh, and all of them are SINGLE SCREEN
windowing systems. end of story. the coco allows hot-keying (the clear
key) between multiable screens (full size), with an application in each.
that is the way I like to work. if I wanted a desktop/single screen type
system, I would be using my Mac right now, rather than the coco..

This is all personal preference here..somehow people have the idea that
MS Windows-like systems are better than the coco..well, I will only
say 2 things. a) Xwindows  b) XEyes

                                                 -* Mike

-*-

84620 4-JAN 04:21  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84612)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack,

 > > I can assure you the valid byte works fine... what is Spider?  :)
 >
 > It is a variation of Solitaire.

Oh yeah, I have that... nice game, Zack... I always play Klondike.  I
guess I just got confused when he called it a "programming aide."  I can
understand what he means those... the compiler can take an awefully long
time sometimes...  :)



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84622 4-JAN 05:27  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84591)
     From: BROWN80      To: YKKID

Actually, I think you can do that with level 2 on the CoCo.  Switch to the
next window in the stack in G-Windows may not be as easy as hitting the clear
key but each window does as much as a full screen and more than you can on a
CoCo.  I don't think there is enough difference to squabble about.
                       John Brown

-*-

84628 4-JAN 10:07  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84618)
     From: CBJ          To: ILLUSIONIST

Mike,
     What we have here is a lack of definition.   All of the aforementioned
systems allow multiple windows.  The problem is how the windows are allowed.
With all the systems except K-Windows and the CoCo the windows are overlay
type windows.  The CoCo uses a hot key to move from window to window.  This
was probably done because it requires less "horsepower".  K-Windows (as I
understand it) can do either type of windowing.  I think that the CoCo has
the capability to do the multiple windows on one screen but they don't work
the same as the other systems.  Actually I see no reason why X-Windows or
G-Windows can't be set up to work the way you want.  You would need a short
"manager" program that would just flip tiled windows on a certain key stroke.
I have a macro to do that under MS-DOS windows.  Works just like a CoCo,,,,,
well almost.
 Carl

-*-

84632 4-JAN 14:09  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84628)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: CBJ

well, yes you could just flip through tiled windows with those systems
(MS windows allows this with the ALT-TAB key combo) my point is, I prefer
to have multiable screens, like the coco has..it is more effcient. take
XWindows for example, the Xterminals have these HUGE monitors so they
can fit all these tiled windows on 1 screen, and they end up needing a
program like XEyes. (Xeyes is a little pair of eyes that sits on the screen
and "look" toward your mouse cursor, because on these big monitors, people
ended up losing their mouse cursor).

Now, I prefer just having multiable screens, granted having the ability
to tiled a few windows on different screens would be nice, but I for one
doubt I would use it. that whole tiled desktop look doesnt appeal to me
it looks messy, and even if I use the MS Windows CASCADE function, and
make them straighten out, it still is a pain to work with.. for me.
of course, I dont like desktop GUI's anyway. just give me a command line
prompt, and I am happy.

                                                       -* Mike

-*-

84634 4-JAN 19:41  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84620)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JOELHEGBERG

Gee... I got Spider for X-Windows on my Sun... Still haven't figured out how
the rules work... maybe I'll have to pull out Variations for my  MM/1 and
look at the docs...
--
Paul

-*-

84635 4-JAN 19:50  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84628)
     From: MITHELEN     To: CBJ

Actually, X-Windows CAN handle multiple screens... (Even multiple PHYSICAL
screens) I think what most people like about the CoCo and K-Windows system
is a nice convient KEYBOARD method to get to the next window/screen. No need
to have to fetch that moust all the time. The reason full screen windows was
most likely used on the CoCo, and MM/1 was limited resolution. To get a
bunch of reasonable sized (like 80x24 text) windows on one screen, take
a lot of pixels to be readable. The CoCo and MM/1 have barely readable text
diaplays on a full screen window.
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84637 4-JAN 21:43  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84635)
     From: KSCALES      To: MITHELEN

Greetings, Paul -

 > Actually, X-Windows CAN handle multiple screens... (Even multiple
 > PHYSICAL screens) I think what most people like about the CoCo and
 > K-Windows system is a nice convient KEYBOARD method to get to the next
 > window/screen. No need to have to fetch that moust all the time.

Yep.  I have HP's VUE window manager running on my Unix box at work.
It gives me six "rooms" (by default; expandable) in which I can have
overlapping, resizable X-Windows.  Each "room" (screen as we prefer to
call them in this forum) has a "dashboard" at the bottom, with icons I
can click to select which "room" to display.  Multiple screens, each
having movable, resizable windows.

When I saw what one of the other fellows had configured his system to do,
I just had to have it...  So, now I can use "Alt-right-arrow" to rotate
forward through different screens, "Alt-left-arrow" to rotate backward.
(And "Alt-up/down-arrows" to rotate throught windows on the screen.
Don't need the mouse unless the application wants it.

Makes one feel right at home ;-)

Unfortunately, the crummy Ved editor we have there just doesn't hold a
candle to Bob's...
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84643 4-JAN 23:31  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84634)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: MITHELEN

The Spider variation of Solitaire can be quite addictive. It is one of
the few variations of Solitaire inwhich the bad luck of the deal can
occasionally be overcome by wise play on the Tableau.

Only problem is that a typical game of Spider can take well over an hour!!

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84649 5-JAN 01:00  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84635)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MITHELEN

>..have barely readable text diasplays on a full screen window.

?
I guess that means I can't read your message on a 90 X 60 display which I am.

-*-

84650 5-JAN 02:09  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84649)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WA2EGP

If the interlaced modes "wern't" then that would be fine... But, I vaule my
eysight, and even with a good monitor, and low contrast settings, the flicker
of the interlace is anough to make it unreadable to me... So, you can really
only consider the non-interlace 768x240 pixle (96x30 char) mode to be the
greatest resolution for readability... And 8x8 pixel font is just adiquite for
"barely readable" in my book of standards.
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84655 5-JAN 07:04  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84628)
     From: JEJONES      To: CBJ

 > The CoCo uses a hot key to move
 > from window to window.  This was probably done because it requires less
 > "horsepower".

Well...actually, one possible reason that comes to mind is that to really
be useful with a bunch of windows on a single screen, one has to have
considerably more spatial resolution than the CoCo can display.

Opinions herein are those of their respective authors, and not necessarily
those of any organization.

*** posted w/InfoXpress 1.1 ***

-*-

84657 5-JAN 09:29  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84411)
     From: DIETER       To: SCWEGERT

 > FWIW, I'm running v51 of windio on a non accelerated MM/1, and KVED works
 > just dandy!
 >
 > *- Steve -*
 >

Before I installed the 68340 board, KVED was working just fine for me, but
after I installed the accelerator the mouse buttons dont work...

Hope someone will be able to fix that problem, sure like the be able the use
KVED again...


                       ---Dieter---

              **** Edited with KVed and ****
       *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 ***

-*-

84658 5-JAN 09:29  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84488)
     From: DIETER       To: EDELMAR

 >  Randy, Ken, Joel and other interested parties -
 >
 >  First some good news.  I just received 2 additional orders for the G-WINDOWS

 >  port.  That makes 12.  Only 8 to go.
 >

You also have my firm commitment for G-Windows!  If You give my Your Fax number
I will fax a Order using my Visa number...

                       ---Dieter---

              **** Edited with KVed and ****
       *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 ***

-*-

84660 5-JAN 11:36  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84655)
     From: CBJ          To: JEJONES

But, MSwindows allows multiple tiled windows in CGA!  Wherefore is the greater
resolution???  The windows are smaller but resizeable.  I am of course not
referring to ver 3.1 since it doesn't officially support CGA.  There is a way
to use 3.0's driver with 3.1 though.
 Carl

-*-

84665 5-JAN 19:03  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84618)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: ILLUSIONIST

Mike, I personally like CoCo type windows better also, set my WANG workstations
up for that type (terminals, actually!). I also set MS Windows to do that when
using it. Takes another couple steps though!
(but can be set up that way)

-*-

84669 5-JAN 19:56  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84655)
     From: JES68K       To: JEJONES

Although it is true that Windowing capability is best done on a system
with high enough resolution to support the size windows being used and
the CoCo-3 has only the 320x192 and 640x192 bitmaps ..... other similiar
systems (Sinclair QL has on power-up 3 windows in place, using only the
512x256 resolution screen) have done okay for their users.

      === Jesse ===

-*-

84670 5-JAN 19:58  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84657)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DIETER

 > Before I installed the 68340 board, KVED was working just fine for me,
 > but after I installed the accelerator the mouse buttons dont work...
 >
 > Hope someone will be able to fix that problem, sure like the be able the
 > use KVED again...


What edition of WindIO are you running?


------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84674 5-JAN 22:24  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84632)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: ILLUSIONIST

Mike,

 > well, yes you could just flip through tiled windows with those systems
 > (MS windows allows this with the ALT-TAB key combo) my point is, I prefer
 > to have multiable screens, like the coco has..it is more effcient. take
 > XWindows for example, the Xterminals have these HUGE monitors so they
 > can fit all these tiled windows on 1 screen, and they end up needing a
 > program like XEyes. (Xeyes is a little pair of eyes that sits on the
 > screen and "look" toward your mouse cursor, because on these big monitors,
 > people ended up losing their mouse cursor).

Having used a 15 inch X-terminal for several years, I can say that I've
never lost my mouse cursor, nor has anyone else I know.  I've found that
tiling the windows works about the same as the different screens on the
CoCo/MM-1.  It would be noce to be able to see the complete screen on
different windows, but the need for that rises very infrequently.

I think the people that are used the the CoCo/MM-1 window system would
have little difficulty in using Gwindows.

                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

84682 5-JAN 23:50  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84669)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: JES68K

ATTN: Carl Boll & Paul Jerkatis...

 > systems (Sinclair QL has on power-up 3 windows in place, using only the
 > 512x256 resolution screen) have done okay for their users.

Hey, I didn't know Gator was on here! <grin>  (Sorry about the inside
joke, folks...)



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84690 6-JAN 04:03  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84658)
     From: EDELMAR      To: DIETER


 Great - FAX number is 302-378-2556 - 9 AM to 8 PM Eastern Time.  Voice line
 is 302-378-2555.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

-*-

84696 6-JAN 19:58  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84674)
     From: THETAURUS    To: MARKGRIFFITH

        >>I think the people that are used  the CoCo/MM-1 window system
   would have little difficulty in using Gwindows.

        I don't use Gwindows or Kwindows myself, but I'm willing to bet
   your right. I think it is the mentality of people who are used to the
   Level II Windowing system that is stopping them. Being used to having
   multiple screen capability all the time probably just makes one think
   that if another system doesn't have it, it must not be as good, when
   in reality, it offers just as much and more flexibility, just in a
   different way. I think once they used it for a little while they would
   change their minds. It is just the mentality, that they are afraid to
   change environments after all this time.
        >Chris<

-*-

84710 7-JAN 00:11  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84650)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MITHELEN

Well, so far my eyes haven't given me their hatred (grin).  The flicker on
mine is barely noticable to me and only with the peripherial vision and when
I move my head quickly.  Of course, everyone in the faculty is waiting until
I need glasses.  That may be some time since I can see the individual lines
that make up the characters in a type 0 window.  I might just try the different
fonts in a type 7 window to see which is the easiest to read.  I haven't tried
it so I don't know if that would work.  But I guess the smallest usable
characters depends on the monitor, the foreground and background colors and
the vision of the user. (Yellow on magenta doesn't make it for me on any type
window <g>)

-*-

84714 7-JAN 00:52  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84665)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: DSRTFOX

on a packard bell system, windows 3.1 is automatically configured for
ALT-TAB/ALT-SHIFT-TAB key combos to switch windows..I always thought that
it was built into Windows....

-*-

84715 7-JAN 00:56  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84674)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: MARKGRIFFITH

I havent lost my mouse cursor either, but then, I am using a 15 inch
screen as well, not very big. but my point is really just personal preference
thats all...I have nothing against G-windows, and I hope that all the MM/1
owners support it, it will be just another step in helping get some sort of
"standard" for all OSk machines, which will help with getting outside
attention, for other platforms, and from the industrial community..

                                                    -* Mike

-*-

84716 7-JAN 01:56  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84696)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: THETAURUS

I dont know if people are scared to change environments, I certainly am not
, I am a very eclectic user myself, DOS/Windows, UNIX, OS-9, hey whatever
I can get my hands on, I just like to learn about systems, and see what
they can do...I started off on a DOS/Windows system, and I picked up
a coco3/mpi/fd501/cm-8 system from a flea market for $150, new all in
their boxes with full docs! I didnt have any software though, so I
ran down to radio shack, and picked up a copy of OS-9 level 2 on close out
for $10, multiview for $5, and a bunch of other junk (like alot of guys
around here), and I admit that I doubted the coco, but I kept saying
"for a total of $200, its worth it", then I found that clear key under
OS-9 and well..I think you get the point..I dont thing any of us are
scared about switching environments, I mean, all of us patch and hack
at system modules, fight the blob, and stick with an orphan system..

I personally find the coco-style windowing easier to work with, the
tiled windows and such like under MS Windows, just looks messy to me
(although I dont know why it matters to me, you should se my living room!!
:) )

although, with Kwindows/Gwindows running side by side.. (if its possible)
then I think that would be the best system.. without a doubt. at least
software wise.. I dont like the MM/1 hardware too much (not expandable
enough, as a few other pointed out) but hey, if I ever get the cash for an
OSk system to spend, the MM/1 is a top contender, with the Delmar systems
running a close second..(if the delmar systems get a kwindows port, then
I will definatly go with the delmars)

-*-

84721 7-JAN 04:03  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84696)
     From: DGANTZ       To: THETAURUS

Well unfortunately I cannot quote the message I'm replying to, but.
As to the 'mentality of OS9 Level II users' I must disagree since I'm
exposed to many different OS's and Systems daily.  Yes I prefer OS9 LII
for its windowing capability, no I haven't been exposed to an MM/1 yet,
but if it has the windowing capability that OS9 LII offers I wouldn't
rule it out as I do others that most definitely are without it.  I for
one am not afraid of changing platforms or enviroments so long as they
provide me with that which I have gotten so used to and miss when I use
the 486 under Windoze at work, and that being the windowing capabilites
of the CoCo III under OS9 LII.  I think your making some dangerous assumptions
and supessions (sp?) here.
                    Dave

-*-

84741 8-JAN 05:58  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84574)
     From: EDELMAR      To: JOELHEGBERG


 Joel and Randy,

 Pardon my delay in getting back to you.  Had a panic call from an old custo-
 mer I haven't heard from in about 4 years.  He had an OS9 VME system running
 which he decided to replace with a 486 and QNX.  Seems the new system doesn't
 do what he needs.  In the meantime, the old system had been scavanged and
 he even lost the software.  Been busy scouting up replacement boards.
 Fortunately, I still have the old source code.  Fun & games <g>!

 Easier to answer both of you at once.

 Let me answer what G-WINDOWS needs first.  There are 2 main parts distributed
 with G-WINDOWS.  WFM is the window manager.  It uses no special keys.  It
 does read and respond to the mouse and also responds to instructions
 (commands) from the command line and/or software written for G-WINDOWS.  The
 second part, DESKTOP, is really an application.  It has all the fancy gadgets
 (the GUI) and does all the 'user friendly' stuff.  While the functions it
 performs are mostly menu driven, special keys may be used as short cuts.  For
 DESKTOP, these are all control keys.  There are other applications written
 for G-WINDOWS.  The choice of keys (if used) are by the programmer.  While
 I doubt it would be run on an MM/1, at least one uses CNTL-<Arrow Key>.
 I haven't seen anything that uses ALT <key>, but there are no prohibitions in
 G-WINDOWS or the Developer's Pack preventing their use or the use of any
 combination of keys the programmer wishes to use.

 Mike Sweet lists key/key combinations reserved by K-Windows.  He also states
 these vary from version to version and suggests they may vary in the future.
 These will restrict the choice of keys used with programs developed under
 the MM/1.  Now, I don't see that as a problem with these programs but how
 about programs developed by others or already in existance?  So, means must
 be found to by-pass K-Windows keyboard filtering when running G-WINDOWS or
 else there is no assurance all G-WINDOWS apps will run properly on an MM/1.

 This brings us back to reading the mouse and keyboard.  From what Zack and
 Randy have said, there is no descriptor for either the mouse or the keyboard.
 No copy of the descriptor is stored in the globals (the port hasn't been
 initialized - it can't be); only the interrupt vector/priority is set up.
 From what you're saying about the existing sub-drivers, it will be better
 to use new drivers.  Descriptors for the respective ports can be set-up
 along with appropriate drivers.  Only have to insure the irq's vector/priority
 are at a 'higher' level then set by windio/sub-module when the G-WINDOWS
 screen is active and then lowered (or deleted) when it's inactive.  This will
 effectively isolate G-WINDOWS and K-Windows.

 Joel, your idea of using a mouse event to trigger copying mouse data might be
 workable.  Need more info - mainly how is the mouse event generated?  Is
 EV$signal or EV$set used or what?

 One other point, WFM is a file manager - as such it can't be made to 'sleep'.
 Nor should there be any need to do so.  Only need to insure keyboard/mouse
 info doesn't get to G-WINDOWS or any apps running under it when it isn't the
 active screen.

 Randy, you made mention of not being able to run STerm and Tsmon together.
 The problem isn't with interrupts.  All interrupt processing does is permit
 selection of the proper driver and/or descriptor.  If more than one process
 wants to read the incoming data, the one with the current (or next if none
 are current) time slice will get the data.  A little simplified but I think
 you get the idea.

 With a mod to STerm, you can, and I believe some one has, run STerm and one of
 the port monitor programs (don't remember whether they used Tsmon or Mmon).
 As I recall, there were several changes that had to be made.  STerm nulls out
 the port descriptor, the port monitor program doesn't like that and STerm, if
 called after the monitor program, will error out if the port is in use.
 Appropriate changes were made to STerm.  But, I'm sure both programs got a
 good deal of garbage.  And, you can run zmodem without exiting STerm.

 Ed

-*-

84746 8-JAN 10:34  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84715)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: ILLUSIONIST

 > I have nothing against G-windows, and I hope that
 > all the MM/1 owners support it, it will be just another step in helping
 > get some sort of "standard" for all OSk machines, which will help with
 > getting outside attention, for other platforms, and from the industrial
 > community..

Well, just to throw more fuel on the fire, I know someone who is porting
the MGR system to the MM/1.  It will be freely available once it is
release.  Then there will be three windowing systems available (grin).

                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

84753 8-JAN 13:20  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84618)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: ILLUSIONIST

I have to use MSWindows at work and I have found that I prefer the coco style
of windowing better too.  BUT, I have also found that I can (and do every day)
run 2 MSDOS apps, full screen of course, and "hot key" between them with
the alt-tab and it seems almost like I'm on the coco.(ALMOST)
OF course there are drawbacks, it is NOT really multi-tasking, ie. with
DOS (non-Windows) apps they stop what they are doing when you go to another
window.  Windows apps will continue to run but I really hate haveing to wait
on the graphics to redraw all the time.  Anyway, I have found that using
2 full screen DOS apps under MSWindows is near enough to coco windows to
keep my sanity at work.:-)
 Wayne

-*-

84755 8-JAN 13:54  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84753)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: WTHOMPSON

 > I have to use MSWindows at work and I have found that I prefer the coco
 > style of windowing better too.  BUT, I have also found that I can (and do

I, too, have had to use MSWindows at work for almost two years now, and
I am torn between the two styles. One reason is that for almost two years
prior to managing a network of DOS/Windows clients I used a DEC Workstation
which was running DEC's version of X-Windows called DECWindows. I have
really gotten used to that type of interface, especially when you have
apps which take advantage of the interface by using click boxes, slide
bars and option lists to get various types of user input and multiple
scrolled regions and progress meters for output. However, a really good
high resolution monitor on a system with accelerated graphics works
real well for a X-Windows style workstation.

I do like the CoCo style hot key to switch between full screen windows,
though, and spend most of my off work time programming on my MM/1a,
even though I have also a 16M 386DX/33 with SVGA!

 > haveing to wait on the graphics to redraw all the time.  Anyway, I have

Hmm, couldn't you just minimize the windows which you care not to watch?

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84767 8-JAN 23:33  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84746)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: MARKGRIFFITH

GREAT!! A freeware windowing system even... very good news..

-*-

84768 8-JAN 23:38  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84753)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: WTHOMPSON

yes, but that is task switching, not multi-tasking, as you said, and with
windows, well that is cooperative multitasking, basically, if an app wants
all the CPU time, it gets it. With no user intervention, there is nothing
that can be done. With OS-9 you can give an app a priority of 255, but
the other apps STILL get a little time, and of course that is OUR choice
try downloading and playing a game with MS Windows.. wont work.. on a coco
it is simple.. I am sure we all do it.. but that is a debate of multitasking
not windowing systems..

                                                 -* Mike

-*-

84770 9-JAN 01:08  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84741)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: EDELMAR

Ed,

 Note that some of this may be moot. There is a very vocal group of m/1 owners
that want serious changes in the way KWin cooks the keyboard data. I know the
requests have been heard by the new keeper-of-the-source. I don't know if any
changes are in the works, however.

DING - round five!  (big :)

 >Mike Sweet lists key/key combinations reserved by K-Windows.  He also states
 >these vary from version to version and suggests they may vary in the future.
 >These will restrict the choice of keys used with programs developed under

 While it is true that some changes have been made, I really would not expect
a problem. The changes made have been to move the special keys out of the
way of apps. For instance, the direct window selects used to be F1-F8. They
were moved to <alt>F1-<alt>F8 to allow apps access to the normal function keys.


 >Joel, your idea of using a mouse event to trigger copying mouse data might be
 >workable.  Need more info - mainly how is the mouse event generated?  Is
 >EV$signal or EV$set used or what?

 Umm, as I understand it, a mouse event is caused by a button state change.
This would cause the GWin mouse data/pointer to be updated when the user
mashes a button. Not exactly smooth auto-follow. :>
 The data needed is readily available in the KWin WData data module. How to get
it really depends on how WFM and the mousedriver work. If WFM requests mouse
info when it needs/wants it, the mouse driver simple has to dig the data out
of WData rather than it's own internal structure. If the mouse driver is
responsible for notifying WFM of any change, then the driver would have to be
VIRQ driven. The irq handler would snag the data from WData, compare it to
the previously stored image, and scream at WFM if needed.
 As I see it, three pieces of information are needed: x position, y position,
and button state. If the offsets into WData for each one is coded into the
mouse descriptor, then there won't be any major problems with minor updates
to KWindows. It would take a major change, such as the meaning of the stored
data, to cause a total failure.
 There is a reason to get the mouse info from KWin. We mm/1'ers have gotten
used to the variety of mouse drivers available. There are drivers for two
types of mouse (uSoft and Mouse Systems) on two (hopefully soon to be three)
serial ports, 68070, 68901, and (68340). In addition, the drivers have a
software switch to transpose the buttons for left handed use. By using KWin,
*you* don't have to be concerned with how the given machine is set up.  And
*I* don't have to worry about losing my lefthanded mouse. :>


 >Randy, you made mention of not being able to run STerm and Tsmon together.
 >The problem isn't with interrupts.  All interrupt processing does is permit
 >selection of the proper driver and/or descriptor.  If more than one process
 >wants to read the incoming data, the one with the current (or next if none
 >are current) time slice will get the data.  A little simplified but I think
 >you get the idea.

 Yes, I'm quite familiar with how OS9 i/o works. I just picked a poor example
as a referene to the problem of seperate programs/drivers trying to read the
same chunk of hardware. The one thing I hadn't considered that you brought up
was dynamicly adjusting the priority to affect the polling table order.
However....
  I do not know if this applies to OSK, as I do not have the software, nor the
time/energy, to disasm the system. But, if the OSK irq polling routine works
like the 6809 code, there is a small, but real, chance of the lower priority
driver getting called to service the device. The 6809 polling routine does
not stop when it finds the source of an irq. It continues all the way through
the polling table, making multiple passes, until it gets a pass in which no
more devices match up. If the device in question lights up the IRQ line after
the polling has past the first, higher priority, entry, but not yet to the
second one, then the later will be called, as it is the first encountered by
polling that matches. Rare, but possible.

 If things are done via a seperate driver, and the priority switch-a-roo, it
should be possible to pass from GWin back to Kwin without much difficultly.
I'm still mulling over a clean way to "restart" the GWin keyboard driver going
from KWin to GWin. Maybe we should petition for a Kwin addition, a setstat to
send a signal on window select/deselect (ss_selsig). :>


   Randy

-*-

84781 9-JAN 09:56  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84746)
     From: EDELMAR      To: MARKGRIFFITH

 Mark,

 Re MGR -

 > ... It will be freely available ....

 Do you mean PD or shareware?  Does that mean OKER has given up trying to
 sell it?  If so, who will be responsible for maintenance?

 Ed

-*-

84783 9-JAN 09:57  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84770)
     From: EDELMAR      To: RANDYKWILSON

 Randy,

 > ... There is a very vocal group of m/1 owners that want serious changes in
 > the way KWin cooks the keyboard data. ...

 Fine.  But the G-WINDOWS port must co-exist with all versions of K-Windows if
 at all possible.  I'll certainly make that a prime objective.

 >  The data needed is readily available in the KWin WData data module. How
 > to get it really depends on how WFM and the mousedriver work. If WFM
 > requests mouse info when it needs/wants it, the mouse driver simple has to
 > dig the data out of WData rather than it's own internal structure. If the
 > mouse driver is responsible for notifying WFM of any change, then the
 > driver would have to be VIRQ driven. The irq handler would snag the data
 > from WData, compare it to the previously stored image, and scream at WFM
 > if needed.

 Neither WFM or apps written under G-WINDOWS do any polling.  They expect
 a 'mouse event' which is generated by the appropriate IRQ.

 It would be considered bad practice (under OS-9) to have the IRQ handler
 do as much work as you suggest.  It would be better to simply set a flag
 or send a signal and return.  Let some other routine do the necessary work.
 (That's how it's done now.)

 > There is a reason to get the mouse info from KWin. We mm/1'ers have gotten
 > used to the variety of mouse drivers available. There are drivers for two
 > types of mouse (uSoft and Mouse Systems) on two (hopefully soon to be three)
 > serial ports, 68070, 68901, and (68340). In addition, the drivers have a
 > software switch to transpose the buttons for left handed use. By using KWin,
 > *you* don't have to be concerned with how the given machine is set up.  And
 > *I* don't have to worry about losing my lefthanded mouse. :>

 On the ports for the SYSTEMs IV & V, we have default mouse ports.  The user
 may, if he wishes, select another port.  Simply a matter of changing a
 descriptor.  The same should be true for the MM/1.  Also, we handle both
 MS and Mouse Systems formats.  So there should be no problem there.  The
 only thing I didn't consider is left handed rodents.  (No one ever asked
 for it.)  Could be added very easily - add a switch and just swap the
 appropriate packets.

 One of these days when I feel real ambitious (and have some time), I want to
 write a single mouse driver that'll handle all rodents.  Just query the mouse
 to find out what kind it is and configure the driver appropriately.

 G-WINDOWS has its own startup file.  The user can configure that as he wishes.
 This need be done only once.

 > I do not know if this applies to OSK, as I do not have the software, nor
 > the time/energy, to disasm the system. But, if the OSK irq polling routine
 > works like the 6809 code, there is a small, but real, chance of the lower
 > priority driver getting called to service the device. The 6809 polling
 > routine does not stop when it finds the source of an irq. It continues all
 > the way through the polling table, making multiple passes, until it gets a
 > pass in which no more devices match up. If the device in question lights up
 > the IRQ line after the polling has past the first, higher priority, entry,
 > but not yet to the second one, then the later will be called, as it is the
 > first encountered by polling that matches. Rare, but possible.

 Wasn't aware of that problem with the 6809.  I ran 4 serial ports on a CoCo,
 all on the same IRQ and never encountered that problem.

 With a properly written driver, the above will not happen under OSK.  At
 least I haven't run into it nor have I ever heard of anyone encountering it.
 If the IRQ is not identified as belonging to the particular process, the IRQ
 Service routine should set the carry bit and exit (do an rts).  If identified
 as belonging to the process, minimum servicing should be done, the carry bit
 cleared and exit.  The kernel will stop polling if the carry bit is returned
 cleared.

 If I remember right, you can prevent polling any other entries on a vector
 by setting the priority to 0 (have to look that one up - don't remember ever
 using it).

 > If things are done via a seperate driver, and the priority switch-a-roo, it
 > should be possible to pass from GWin back to Kwin without much difficultly.

 Based on our discussions, I don't see any insurmountable problems, either.
 Found out what won't work - very important.

 > I'm still mulling over a clean way to "restart" the GWin keyboard driver
 > going from KWin to GWin. Maybe we should petition for a Kwin addition, a
 > setstat to send a signal on window select/deselect (ss_selsig). :>

 Well, it would be nice - maybe the suggestion I made earlier with a data-
 module.  But, the port has to co-exist with what is out there now - can't
 change K-Windows just for G-WINDOWS.  Similarly, G-WINDOWS on an MM/1 should
 behave exactly as it does on any other platform to the user and as the app
 programmers expect.

 Let me emphasize one point.  Just because a port is being done, doesn't mean
 G-WINDOWS can be changed.  In fact, it can't.  WFM, the apps and utilities
 are not under the control of the 'porter' (portee?).  G-WINDOWS and its apps
 have certain requirements and behave in a certain manner.  It is the porter's
 responsibility to insure these are met for a specific hardware platform and
 that the behavior is not altered.

 Ed

-*-

84791 9-JAN 17:07  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84746)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: MARKGRIFFITH

 > Well, just to throw more fuel on the fire, I know someone who is porting
 > the MGR system to the MM/1.  It will be freely available once it is
 > release.  Then there will be three windowing systems available (grin).

Great, Mark... the more the merrier!  :)


  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84792 9-JAN 17:07  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84741)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: EDELMAR

 > Mike Sweet lists key/key combinations reserved by K-Windows.  He also
 > states these vary from version to version and suggests they may vary

I don't think they will vary in the future.  There was one version of
K-Windows that (out of the blue) decided to use ALT-arrow key
combinations instead of the CTRL-key combinations it had been using...
but the problem was some software already decided to use the ALT-key
codes and that broke those programs with that version of K-Windows, so
it was "fixed" in all subsequent versions to only use CTRL-KEY
combinations.

 > Joel, your idea of using a mouse event to trigger copying mouse data might
 > be workable.  Need more info - mainly how is the mouse event generated?
 > Is EV$signal or EV$set used or what?

The "event" that I was referring to was to whatever "event" G-Windows
was answering... when G-Windows processes an event that requires mouse
data, you could simple issue a getstat to the K-Windows window manager
to get the mouse information... this is really quite fast and reliable,
and would provide you with the PT_VALID byte to determine if the
G-Windows is the currenly active screen.


  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84800 9-JAN 19:45  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84741)
     From: KSCALES      To: EDELMAR

 > While I doubt it would be run on an MM/1, at least one uses
 > CNTL-<Arrow Key>.

Very interesting.  I cannot even imagine how this key combination would
be defined within an OSK application.  (Under CoCo Level 2, there was the
SS.KySns getstat call, but OSK doesn't have it.)

Could you use "code" or "dump" to capture the Arrow-key and CNTL-Arrow-key
outputs?  Would like to see what's happening.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84801 9-JAN 19:46  General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84741)
     From: KSCALES      To: EDELMAR

 > So, means must be found to by-pass K-Windows keyboard
 > filtering when running G-WINDOWS or else there is no assurance all
 > G-WINDOWS apps will run properly on an MM/1.

Hold on, please!  Time out!  The only keyboard "filtering" that I can
think of that is done by K-Windows is for the following three key sequences:
   CTRL-ALT-Spacebar, hex code $80, pick up window to move it.
   CTRL-ALT-A, hex code $81, resize window.
   CTRL-ALT-B, hex code $82, move window to back.

Window resize/move functions are also controlled through software calls,
so rewriting the keyboard functions isn't going to prevent this from
occurring.  Don't re-implement the keyboard scanning just for these...
Applications can cause the exact same conflicts, anyway.

Aside from the above filtering, there are also some "uniquenesses" in
the K-Windows keydrv that should be considered, of course.

CTRL-Arrow and CTRL-Enter provide a keyboard mouse function, but since
none of these sequences correspond with any defined ASCII codes, this is
NOT filtering, and is in fact a function from which G-Windows would benefit,
if it utilizes the standard K-Windows mouse routines.  They affect the
value returned through the _gs_mouse call, and are transparent as regards
the keyboard input buffer.

Similarly, ALT-F1 through ALT-F8 provide window direct-selection, and
should not interfere with G-Windows' own operation, provided it lives
within a K-Windows screen and performs mouse-reads properly (honouring
pt.valid).  The non-ALT values for F1 through F8 can in fact be programmed
by G-Windows at startup to give desired code sequences.

Unfortunately, F9 and F10 are dedicated to window-selection rotation, so
will not be available for a G-Windows application.  I don't think that
there is a standard for F-key values anyway, so probably Termcap entries
would need to be used by applications (like Stephen did with datadex).

A separate topic is the unfortunate assignment of single ASCII control
codes for the Arrow, Home, End, PageUp/Dn, Insert, and Delete characters.

The last two items (F9/F10 and single ASCII control codes) provide
limitations at the application level, but I don't think they shouldn't
be part of your G-Windows environment port.  They need to be addressed
at the K-Windows level.  In general, OSK applications should use
Termcap for these, anyway.

 > This brings us back to reading the mouse and keyboard.  From what Zack
 > and Randy have said, there is no descriptor for either the mouse or the
 > keyboard.

Well, I have a different perspective.  I am typing this using KVed/Ved,
and my Window/screen is "/w7".  My keyboard descriptor is therefore "/w7".
And my mouse is also associated with "/w7".  The keyboard is my standard
input, and conforms to all standard calls/functions you would normally
do on a normal SCF input device (_ss_ssig(path, KBDSIG); _gs_rdy(path);
etc.).  (Strictly speaking tho, it is a WCF device.)

When another window is selected, keyboard input is routed by K-Windows to
that window's buffer, and signals are generated to the associated process
if enabled.  Invisible to G-Windows.  When the G-Windows screen is
reselected, keyboard input would be directed back to the G-Windows path,
with associated interrupts.

The mouse is also associated with my current window path.  I can set it to
send a signal when a mouse button is activated using _ss_msig(path,MSSIG).
To read the mouse values, I would use _gs_mouse(path,&mousepacket).  I
seriously doubt that G-Windows would want the mouse driver to trigger an
interrupt TO GWINDOWS every time that the mouse had moved.  (This is not
the same as having the port set an interrupt for the mouse driver for
each byte received!!!  That is a lower level.)  Rather, I suspect that
G-Windows would want to be able to read the values on demand from the
driver.  This can be done with the aforementioned _gs_mouse call, or
as Randy has proposed by linking the wdata module.  BUT the data should
be ignored if pt.valid is not set, as G-Windows is not the currently
displayed screen (consider the mouse as stationary).  If G-Windows
really DOES want to receive an interrupt whenever the mouse has shifted,
then a co-process could be created that periodically reads the mouse, and
generates the interrupt.  This co-process would probably have a duty cycle
of about 1/30 to 1/10 sec., and would perform the _gs_mouse calls and data
conversion.

The mouse buffer can be read through the _gs_mouse call, whether the
screen is active or not, but pt.valid indicates if the data is for
the process' window, or not.  Signals are associated with path, so
only go to the process that enabled them.  (A mouse click on another
screen would not send a signal to G-Windows.)

I really think that the current discussions have been making things appear
much more difficult than they need to be.

Please re-read my message 84398 to Randy.

Regards... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84834 11-JAN 07:20 General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84781)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: EDELMAR

Ed,

 > Re MGR -
 >
 > > ... It will be freely available ....
 >
 > Do you mean PD or shareware?  Does that mean OKER has given up trying to
 > sell it?  If so, who will be responsible for maintenance?

PD I'm pretty sure.  As for support, that is a different story that I
don't know much about at this point and probably shouldn't say if I did.
I'm sure support will be in there someplace.

Can't say more.  Sorry (grin).

                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

84837 11-JAN 20:01 General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84834)
     From: MITHELEN     To: MARKGRIFFITH

Mark, can you tell us if this port of MGR is being done from the V1.x MGR
sources (which are freely available) or the sources that were used to do the
"demo" port for the MM/1 at Chicago last year?
--
Paul

-*-

84843 11-JAN 22:09 General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84670)
     From: DIETER       To: COLORSYSTEMS

 >
 > What edition of WindIO are you running?
 >
I just checked, it is Edition #50...

                       ---Dieter---

              **** Edited with KVed and ****
       *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 ***

-*-

84846 11-JAN 23:29 General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84843)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DIETER

Current versionis #51, have you not gotten it yet?

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84909 15-JAN 06:32 General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84837)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: MITHELEN

Paul,

 > Mark, can you tell us if this port of MGR is being done from the V1.x MGR
 > sources (which are freely available) or the sources that were used to do
 > the "demo" port for the MM/1 at Chicago last year?

I don't know.

                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84491 31-DEC 21:49 General Information
     see y'all next year
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ALL

Happy New Year Everybody!!!

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84493 1-JAN 00:29  General Information
     WOAY->WDTV5
     From: WDTV5        To: ALL

Howdy everyone! First, have a Happy New Year, its now 1994. Then please
take note that the former 'WOAY' here, the one who actually used the account
in the last year, has a new account and handle.  With a couple of minor
exceptions
I will now be 'WDTV5' here. I'll check the mail inder the old account for at
least the month of January, and will try to make sure everyone knows my new
handle for mail.  I'm still the same old Gene Heskett though, Cheers

-*-

84501 1-JAN 13:12  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84493)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: WDTV5

>
> I will now be 'WDTV5' here. I'll check the mail inder the old account for
> at least the month of January, and will try to make sure everyone knows my
> new handle for mail.  I'm still the same old Gene Heskett though, Cheers
>

   Well, Hello WDTV5!!  And Happy New Year to ya.

 I hope you'ved checked with the station to make sure THEY don't change
 there call letters any time soon :)  Now that would be a kick <g>.

-
   John Baer
   johnbaer@delphi.com
   jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us

   *** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***

-*-

84502 1-JAN 13:23  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84501)
     From: WDTV5        To: JOHNBAER

Not since we swapped calls with KDKA in Pittsburg about 35 years ago!
Something to do with DuMont owning them at the time & they wanted a "D".
Didn't make sense to me at the time, still doesn't. But it does make them
very close to the only "K" station east of the Mississippi river if not the
only one.  Cheers & Happy New Year to you too John! Gene Heskett - WDTV5

-*-

84524 2-JAN 00:40  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84502)
     From: ISC          To: WDTV5

WDTV5,

Gene,

The other K station east of the Mississippi is AM radio KQV also in Pittsburgh,
Pa. BTW.  I think that KDKA kept the call letters because it was the first
commercial radio station in the U.S.  Maybe KQV was the second, I don't know.

BTW, Pittsburgh, Pa. is spelled with the H on the end to distinguish it from
the Pittsburgs in California and Kansas.

Bill

-*-

84540 2-JAN 10:18  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84524)
     From: WDTV5        To: ISC

Oops! And being only 2 hours south of there, I SHOULD know better. Blame it
on a typo maybe? Cheers Bill, Gene

-*-

84542 2-JAN 10:35  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84502)
     From: CJMORRIS     To: WDTV5

I think that was their call back before TV.  Not sure though.  You could
have used WTRF for your new id.  Doubt if they're be changing up in
Wheeling for some time.  Nothing up  there seems to change much anymore, in
fact.  John M.

-*-

84544 2-JAN 16:11  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84502)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: WDTV5

> Not since we swapped calls with KDKA in Pittsburg about 35 years ago!
> But it does make them very close to the only "K" station east of the
> Mississippi river if not the only one...

  Here in Phila. Pa. we have TV channel 3 with KYW... a Westinghouse owned
station.  Don't know how many `K' calls there really is on this side of
Mississippi...

-
   John Baer
   johnbaer@delphi.com
   jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us

   *** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***

-*-

84567 2-JAN 23:19  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84542)
     From: WDTV5        To: CJMORRIS

WTRF wouldn't be appropriate since I am in fact the CE@WDTV! And let me clear
up something, we did in fact begin broadcasting operations as KDKA! The call
letter swap took place (I'm told) at the same time the first ownership change
took place, probably in the first 5 years of operations back in the early
1960's.  We celebrated 30 years o0on the air in 85 or 86, memory is getting
dim on that. I was there at the time, been there since '84. I took over from
the previous Chief 2 weeks after a studio move was completed, a half built
operation then and I've been building a TV station ever since it seems.
Thats not one of my favorite pastimes though, but it sure seems to be my lot
in life! I shoulda been born 10 years later, I'd have gotten into digital
on the ground floor instead of growing up with analog and tubes! I think
I've made the transistion pretty well tho, I've been thinking in hexidecimal
since about '77. Oh oh I hear the drivel police! Cheers John, Gene

-*-

84568 2-JAN 23:20  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84544)
     From: WDTV5        To: JOHNBAER

Humm, that makes 3 we kknow about then. Thanks John. Cheers

-*-

84619 4-JAN 03:47  General Information
     RE: WOAY->WDTV5 (Re: Msg 84542)
     From: ROYBUR       To: CJMORRIS

 i dunno, there've been some changes 'round these here parts. not many for
 the better from what i can tell. though i suppose i should explain that i
 actually live outside of town (closer to a little town named West Liberty)
 i guess the post office thinks i'm a resident. lookin' at the future i don't
 seem to need shades. 8*)...........roy

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84494 1-JAN 01:13  General Information
     RE: WD controllers (Re: Msg 84370)
     From: DAVIDAH      To: ILLUSIONIST

 My brother said, try getting hold of Computer Shopper mag. It has loads of
venders for hard drives and He has seen WD controllers in there, he believes.

----Dave


-*-

84496 1-JAN 04:04  Telecom (6809)
     Palm v2.1 now available
     From: JSHEPLER     To: ALL


 Just to let you all know, Palm v2.1, first non-beta release, is now
available in the archives.

-Jeff

-*-

84498 1-JAN 10:50  Telecom (6809)
     SuperComm
     From: TOMFANN      To: ALL

Happy New Year everyone!  I am on-line using SuperComm, which is a milestone
for me.  OSs9 isn't so bad!  Ii see there is one problem already, though,
and that is the repeat rate is set stoo fast for me.  And how do you back up
and delete typing errors?/  When Ii started supercomm, I did not use the
<>>>/w& like it suppggests in the docs.  Could that be the problem/?  I am
using a stock Tandy system dicsk, except for the 40 and 80t /d0 and /d1
device descriptors (all other modules, including aciapak, are stock).

Also, is there a way to sue rats use 'display' to change the colors?/  The
screen now has white letters on a black background, and I like white
letters on a medium (#10) blue background.

In the process of making a custom boot disk and getting SuperComm to
work, I discovered a lot of omissions and errors in the big OS9 manual.  But
OS9 is a lot of fun, nevertheless!

..Tom Fann

-*-

84509 1-JAN 17:24  Telecom (6809)
     RE: SuperComm (Re: Msg 84498)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: TOMFANN


 > Also, is there a way to sue rats use 'display' to change the colors?/
 > The screen now has white letters on a black background, and I like white
 > letters on a medium (#10) blue background.

Unless SuperComm has had the option added for it to change the colors for you
you will have to do it this way:

If you do not have Kevin Darling's replacement procs command, you will need
to startup SuperComm in a specific window device, eg,

OS9: supercomm <>>>/w3&

If you have Kev's replacement procs command (it's here in the libs, btw,
in case you don't) just start up SuperComm as you normally would. Oh,
yes, I forgot, make sure you have at least one other window open. Once
SuperComm has started, CLEAR over to the other window. If you have Kev's
procs command run it to find out which window SuperComm is running in.

Then do:

OS9: display 1b 32 00 1b 33 01 >/wn

Where n is the window device number SuperComm is running in. This also assumes
that your system's default palettes are set with white in palette register 0
and blue in palette register 1.

I personally prefer a black border, in which case you'd add 1b 34 02 in the
above string. And yes this assumes that default palette register 2 has black
as its assigned color.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84521 1-JAN 22:41  Telecom (6809)
     RE: SuperComm (Re: Msg 84509)
     From: TOMFANN      To: COLORSYSTEMS

I don't have a  any of the patches here on-line because using RSDOS-OS9 was
too cumbersome.  Now that I have SuperComm running I will start exploring
the OS9 database.  I didn't know I could start sc in a window of my choosing,
although I admit I haven't tried.  I will try that.

One other problem: where are rz and sz for Zmodem?  I couldn't find them.

Thanks for your help.

..Tom Fann

-*-

84522 1-JAN 23:07  Telecom (6809)
     RE: SuperComm (Re: Msg 84521)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: TOMFANN

Tom.

  Zack's way of dealing with screen colors will only net partial sucess
with SuperComm. SuperComm sets the palettes differently than default. In
most cases, it sets them to mimic a CGA color set. Second, it resets the
palettes and screen defaults every time the autodialer is used. So, if you
do try the display trick, you'll have to know the CGA color order, and be
ready to reset it after every autodial, or terminal mode change, or ...
Not to worry tthough. SuperComm v2.3, currently in perpetual beta, addresses
this problem.

 Zmodem v3.24 (rz and sz) were last spotted lurking in New Uploads. In the
not-too-distant future, They'll sneak over to Their  permanent home in Telecom.


    Randy

-*-

84537 2-JAN 08:49  Telecom (6809)
     RE: SuperComm (Re: Msg 84521)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: TOMFANN

Hi Tom--There is a program in the database called 'GO' that you might be
interested in. The package includes a module called 'TYPE'. It will start a
program in any type of window you want. The command line --type 2 Supercomm--
would start Supercomm in a type 2 window. Type 8 Supercomm-- would start it
in a type 8 window. Simple! <Phil>

-*-

84894 14-JAN 23:35 Telecom (6809)
     RE: SuperComm (Re: Msg 84522)
     From: TOMFANN      To: RANDYKWILSON

I didn't think to try New Uploads for rz and sz because I thought they
had been out for some time (over a year).  I will check it out.  Thanks.

..Tom Fann

-*-

84895 14-JAN 23:37 Telecom (6809)
     RE: SuperComm (Re: Msg 84537)
     From: TOMFANN      To: PHILSCHERER

'TYPE' sounds interesting.  I assume you mean the preconfigured windows?

..Tom Fann

-*-

84911 15-JAN 09:29 Telecom (6809)
     RE: SuperComm (Re: Msg 84895)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: TOMFANN (NR)

Hi Tom-the command--type 2 supercomm--is the same as wcreate /w -s=2 0 0
80 24 0 2 2;supercomm <>>>/w2--opps the wcreate /w should be wcreate /w2.
<Phil>

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84499 1-JAN 12:04  General Information
     HAGNY
     From: JIMHRUBIK    To: ALL

Have A Good New Year, everybody!!!

-*-

84500 1-JAN 12:21  Applications (6809)
     RE: Window Writer (Re: Msg 84472)
     From: ALWAGNER     To: NEALSTEWARD

Shell is NOT part of the boot.  It must be present to complete the boot as the
boot routine must have
shell to pass control off to when it finishes.  I merely renamed the original
shell, shelO for shell original
and start a window using "shelO i=/w#" where #=the window number I want to start

with that shell in it.

-*-

84513 1-JAN 18:42  Applications (6809)
     RE: Window Writer (Re: Msg 84500)
     From: NEALSTEWARD  To: ALWAGNER

I see.  I'll give that a try.  I guess that should work for other types
of modules such as a different Hdisk for 2 different hard drive systems
or scuh uses too.  Thanks, I'll let you know fi that works for me with
Window Writers B09 modules.


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84505 1-JAN 15:33  General Information
     rgb to svga on a coco?
     From: JIMHRUBIK    To: MARTYGOODMAN

Marty, I was looking at the CoCo3 schematic and noticed that the HSYNC for
the RGB comes out of the GIME pin 56, is inverted by a 7404 and appears to be
fed not only to the PAL but also directly to pin 8 of the RGB out.  Is it
possible to pick up the HSYNC signal and double the frequency?  If so, could
that doubled HSYNC (at 31.5 KHz) then be used on a VGA-type monitor?  It may
be too simple an idea to be any good, but it struck me that running the
HSYNC through a 555 to double the frequency...

I noticed that Midwest Micro has 1CM135 monitors for $249, but they state
that they are capable of only 4 colors.  What exactly needs to be done
to turn a CGA monitor into a CoCo compatible RGB monitor?


-*-

84515 1-JAN 19:55  General Information
     RE: rgb to svga on a coco? (Re: Msg 84505)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JIMHRUBIK

$ colors ???? NAH!<grin> CGA is capible of 8....the problem is CGA is
got digitaly ...via a ramp,max I think was 16 colors......
since the 135 is MUCH like the Combined one! I think the Board could be
ADDED to..The board is the same.Marty has the Diagrams for it<as do I>
don,t that one also have Composite!?
 that idea will not work!HSync .....sorry..Dennis

-*-

84534 2-JAN 06:41  General Information
     RE: rgb to svga on a coco? (Re: Msg 84505)
     From: LMCCLURE     To: JIMHRUBIK


     "Is it possible to pick up the HSYNC signal and double the
      frequency?  If so, could that doubled HSYNC (at 31.5 KHz) then
      be used on a VGA-type monitor?"

Assuming one did so, keep in mind that the pixel clocking rate would
remain the same, halving the horizontal resolution. Worse, there would
be no border at the right edge of each even line and at the left edge
of each odd line, as the CoCo would still be outputting supposedly
visible pixels during every other horizontal retrace.


This gets long. Continue reading? <y/n>:



As I have mentioned before, had the CoCo used a separate RAMDAC (as
the Amiga does), the signals would have been available in digital
form at one point. Each raster line could then have been stored in a
digital buffer, and external circuitry used to send this data to a
new RAMDAC clocked at double the CoCo's normal rate (i.e. VGA). As
a bonus, a RAMDAC with a larger palette could possibly have been
used. (Actually, if a one-chip RAMDAC were to be used, it would almost
have to be, as the smallest pallette I know of on one is 4096 colors).

However, the RAMDAC is intergrated into the GIME, and the signals
emerge in analog form, greatly complicating the circuitry and
increasing the necessary PCB real estate and power demands (unless you
know of a single chip that incorporates three 2-bit resolution flash
A/D convertors <grin>).

Of course, the integration of the RAMDAC into the GIME helped keep
down the costs to Tandy, and is also likely the reason for the rather
limited pallete (wider registers and larger internal D/A convertors
would have increased the chip's transistor count and complexity).

The best solution, from a purely engineering standpoint, would be a
totally new GIME chip. However, unless you have say, 50,000 people
willing to put up a deposit, and pay $50-$100 for a new chip, I don't
believe it is going to happen. <grin>

Of course, if it did, going to a smaller feature size would allow one
to cram in a number of more features beyond scan doubling and a
larger palette.


Anyone know what the feature size of the GIME was? Somewhere between
1.2-2.0 microns, I would think.


     "I noticed that Midwest Micro has 1CM135 monitors for $249,
      but they state that they are capable of only 4 colors."

That Midwest Micro ad suffers from a PC-centric point of view. The
maximum number of colors that could be displayed on a standard PC
CGA card was 4 out of 16 (at 320x200). Even though alternatives
even on the PC existed to display more (i.e., hook it up to a
Tandy 1000, and you could get 16 colors at once), they ignored the
fact that it also accepts analog RGB input, as the only PC cards on
the market that output RGB analog require monitors with 31.5Khz scan
rates or higher. Indeed, the 1CM135 is capable of a virtually
infinite array of colors, and will work even better on the CoCo3 than
the Tandy CM-8. All you need is the proper cable. In fact, the 1CM135
will also handle composite and separated chroma/luma (a.k.a. S-video or
Y/C) as well.


-*-

84594 3-JAN 18:37  General Information
     RE: rgb to svga on a coco? (Re: Msg 84505)
     From: MARTYGOODMAN To: JIMHRUBIK

(1) You appear to be confused by what you are seeing on the schematic
diagram for the CoCo 3.   There's no PAL chip in the CoCo 3, first
of all.  The H and V sync pulses come out of the Gime chip at
a FIXED frequency... there's not means to double that frequency without
totally redesigning the GIME chip itself.   From the Gime chip those
two signals are bufferred and inverted by the 74LS04 chip, as you
quite correctly note, before going to the RGB video connector.

Those same signals also are fed into a 6821-like PIA chip (is it THAT
chip you are mistaking for a "PAL" chip?) that is used primarily to
read the CoCo keyboard switch matrix (hence it's called the "keyboard
PIA"), tho this same PIA controls sound port selection and
also controls whether it is the H sync pulse, the V sync pulse, or
neither that is fed on into the interrupt circuitry of the CoCo.
Thus, those video sync signals are used as timing signals for
interrupt driven CoCo functions, when the keyboard PIA is
properly set up.

   There's nothing in all this that in the slightest, tho, implies
there's any reasonable means to use the video at 31.5KHz... quite
the contrary, actually.


 (2) CGA monitors are intrinsically capable of showing 14 colors
and black and white if used with a CGA video card in a PC.
If used with a Color Computer 3 RGB signal (assuming the input
levels for the TTL R,G, and B luminance lines accept the CoCo RGB
analog signal levels, which usually tho not always is the case)
a CGA monitor will allow for a total of 6 colors plus black and white
to be displayed.
Thus, I'm not sure where you are getting this "four colors only" information.

The Magnavox 1CM135 that I know has both a RGBI (CGA) and an analog
RGB video input port.  Thus, you've further confused me, because you
are implying that this is a 1CM135 monitor that does not have an analog
RGB video input port... something I've never heard of.
To my knowledge, 1CM135 monitors all have RGB analog input capabiliy.
And need only the correct cable to be hooked to a CoCo 3 and display
all 64 colors.

Now, IF one has a video monitor that accepts RGBI (CGA) but not analog RGB,
in most cases one can modify that monitor to accept RGB analog.
Usually this can even be done without posessing a schematic for
the monitor in question, for the point in the circuit one needs
to tap in to to squirt analog RGB luminance into the set is often
obvious if one has worked on repairing and modifying color monitors in the past.

In most cases you just find where the RGBI decoder circuit feeds analog
R,G, and B luminance into the remainder of the video luminance circuit,
and tap in right there... typically to the bases of the first group of
three video buffer amplifier transistors.     But the exact details
will vary with each make and model of CGA monitor, so you have to know
what you are doing.  I've successfully modified three totally different
CGA monitors in the past to accept RGB analog signals, and so far each
mod went quite smoothly.  In each case the exact details of what I had to do
varied, tho the principle of what I did was the same.

If you provide me with more accurate or more detailed information,
I can try to help you more.   If you get and send me a schematic diagram
for the particular monitor in question, along with a stamped, self
addressed return enevelope, I'd be happy to circle in red where
I think the analog video needs to be piped in.

   ---marty
     ---marty

-*-

84936 15-JAN 21:38 General Information
     RE: rgb to svga on a coco? (Re: Msg 84594)
     From: JIMHRUBIK    To: MARTYGOODMAN (NR)

Thanks, Marty.  The info I had was from the Midwest Micro catalog, 6th ed.
Obviously they have a product they don't know enough about -- shades of
Tandy!

Again, thanks for the explanation....Jim.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84506 1-JAN 15:56  General Information
     MONOCHROME Monitor
     From: MROWEN01     To: MARTYGOODMAN

Hi Marty,
You have been a monitor guru in the past, perhaps you can assist me. I am
in the process of putting a Coco3 in a TRS-80 4/P case so that I can have a
"portable" system for traveling. Do I need to do anything special to connect
the video? The 4/P has a monochrome (B&W) monitor. The tech manual says that
the video inputs are TTL compatible. Can I directly connect the Coco3 video
to the 4/P monitor? Also, since I will run with a monochrome monitor, how
an I connect the RGB lines. Do I just connect one of the three? I'm also
interested in any good books that would enlighten me regarding RGB/Composite
video signal processing.

-Thanks

Mike Rowen
..YUCK.....
Mike Rowen
(MROWEN01)

-*-

84507 1-JAN 16:09  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84506)
     From: MITHELEN     To: MROWEN01

You will most likely need a "ATTL" adaptor if the 4/p is expecting a TTL
signal... The ATTL takes the RGBA signal from the CoCo, and converts it to
a Monochrome TTL signal. Kala Software used to sell them, and maybe Hawksoft
sells them now. The "ATTL" was designed by Gene Brooks of the Glenside Color
Computer Club. I believe it sold/sells for 20-30$ (or was it 15$...)

--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84554 2-JAN 19:08  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84507)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MITHELEN

The Model 4 monitor is a composite monitor with TTL level signals, but not
a TTl monitor as used in IBM systems. The signals are 0-5V though.
This conversion is similar for the KayproII I converted.

-*-

84555 2-JAN 19:10  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84554)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MROWEN01

Let me know if you need help with the monitor. I do need to know how many
lines go between the Model 4P board and the monitor, to start with, and
if you know the designation of these lines, either from the circuit board or
the repair manual.

-*-

84560 2-JAN 21:37  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84555)
     From: MROWEN01     To: DSRTFOX

The video lines are as follows on the 4/P:

1 - GND
2 - VOUT
3 - GND
4 - VERTSYNC*
5 - GND
6 - HORZSYNC

-Mike

-*-

84595 3-JAN 18:43  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84506)
     From: MARTYGOODMAN To: MROWEN01

Ah!   You have, it would seem, a separate sync, B&W monitor.
If you connect a SINGLE line of the RGB luminance (either R,G, or B)
you'll get an image on the screen ONLY when the color in question
is part of the color selected for foreground or background.
THis could prove to be very anoying unless you've customized
the color set for every program you run on that portable...
not really practical for most applications.

I recommend trying the following:  Take the R,G, and B signals
from the CoCo RGB port, and feed each one into the anode of
separate 1N34A germanium diodes, then connect all three cathodes
from those three diodes together, and to the luminance input
of your monitor.   THAT should give you a monochrome luminance
signal that will provide a reasonable image.   You may have to fool
around a bit with brightness and perhaps even bias the resulting
signal a bit, for a TTL input expects an on voltage of around 1.4 or greater
volts, and the RGB of the CoCo is a max of 1.0 volts, and will be dropped
by about .3 volts thru the germanium junction.  But I found something
like this worked adequately with a Kaypro monitor that I believe to
be of the same sort of design.

    ---marty

-*-

84602 3-JAN 21:26  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84595)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MARTYGOODMAN

Marty, you might want to look at MROWEN1s original post and comment on the
H and V sync lines. He has one listed with an asterics, I'm not sure, but
it may need to be inverted for the CoCo????

And yes, though I blew the monitor while handling shortly after I got it
working, the germanium diodes DID work fine. I just bumped the back of the
picture tube while on a bit and the little light in the back went out...

-*-

84624 4-JAN 05:57  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84602)
     From: MARTYGOODMAN To: DSRTFOX

I'm very sorry to hear you managed to knock out that Kaypro monitor.
I hope you were able to find a replacement 7 inch monitor!

   Thanks much for the feedback that the triple diode arrangement
I played with here seemed to work for you.

    ---marty

-*-

84626 4-JAN 06:06  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84560)
     From: MARTYGOODMAN To: MROWEN01

Well, the pin out you give for the Model 4 P monitor
is a bit puzzling.   I've never before seen a monochrome
monitor that used inverted V sync but non-inverted H sync,
as your post suggested.   And I HOPE that what you are
calling "V out" is what I would call "luminance".
Otherwise the pin out would not make any sense.

   Anyway, you have only 4 possible sync combinations in terms
of positive vs negative sync on the H and V sync.  So if your
first guess (hooking sync up directly from the CoCo to the
4 P) does not give you a stable, properly centered image,
try the other three possible combinations, using a 74LS04 to invert
one or both of the sync lines from the Coco.   Note that I would
predict that the sync as it comes out of the CoCo will work fine
on that monitor.    But, as I said, if not try other combinations
of polarity on the sync signals.

    ---marty

-*-

84666 5-JAN 19:06  General Information
     RE: MONOCHROME Monitor (Re: Msg 84626)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MARTYGOODMAN

Marty, the "V out" most likely means video out, though I'm sure you gathered
that! The 7" amber composite (true composite!) monitor I replaced the KP model
with has that marked on it also, by the way.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84510 1-JAN 17:58  General Information
     SCSI
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: ALL

IS anyone here familiar with using the scsisys10 program here in the database?
I'm trying to get a mimiscribe hd going and it gets to the point where it tells
me that there are $c10a8000 total physical blocks. Then after I give it the
go-ahead, it comes back with -- ERROR SENDING COMMAND   HIT ANY KEY. I dont
know what else to try and would appreciate any help. <Phil>

-*-

84516 1-JAN 21:34  General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84510)
     From: JIMBM        To: PHILSCHERER

except for the number of blocks returned the problem you describe
sounds like what happened to me when I first tried to use my st277n
I had parity enabled and disabled it and everything works fine.

Jim Manning

-*-

84528 2-JAN 02:22  General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84510)
     From: REVWCP       To: PHILSCHERER

I am using it with 2 seagate N series drives, an st138n and an st255n, and
have not had any problems, I will check around my info files and get back
to you.
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User Group Treasurer

-*-

84535 2-JAN 08:41  General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84516)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: JIMBM

Hi Jim--Where do Ifind the option for parity? <Phil>

-*-

84536 2-JAN 08:42  General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84528)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: REVWCP

Thanks Br. Jeremy--I found that HD info file you mentioned previously and it
was about Seagate drives. <Phil>

-*-

84550 2-JAN 17:58  General Information
     RE: SCSI (Re: Msg 84535)
     From: JIMBM        To: PHILSCHERER

mmmm I don't know where parity would be set on a miniscribe HD.

Jim M

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84511 1-JAN 18:01  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84447)
     From: THETAURUS    To: COCOKIWI

        >>WHY! just because you don't! MOST people who brought a NEW MM/1
   etc were hackers, or people handy with a soldering iron, and adapt at
   some programming and had worked with a Coco...

        The whole point of having the MM/1 and other related machines
   available is to GET AWAY from that train of thought. If we continue
   with that thinking we might as well toss in the towel and drop the
   68xxx machines, since it will only end up being 5 people telling
   eachother how to hack the machine to make it work, rather than a user
   friendly machine for people with at least half a brain. It may not be
   MAC friendly right away, but as long as it's decent...
        Turn the point of view around and look at it this way, just
   because YOU like to hack, why should this machine have to be hacked by
   ALL other users for it to work. Many don't have the knowledge you
   obviously have. If you enjoy hacking, hold on to your Coco. Remember
   just because most of the people who own MM/1's now are former Coco
   users, the only way to expand the market is to get people from outside
   the Coco community, since 1) there aren't that many left if Coco land
   anyway and 2) They need users who spend money (DUCK!!!)<Grin>. Now if
   we tell THESE people, "Well, if you want a joystick, just cut and
   trace this to that and hack up this etc...",do you honestly think they
   are gonna stay?
        >> If you want ease of use, ETc go buy a Amega or a MAC..or
   IBM.......<GROAN>......Dennis

        OUCH...I'm glad that isn't the thinking at Blackhawk, Dirt Cheap
   Software, or other MM/1 vendors, or we would DEFINATELY be in a hole
   right now<grin>!

        Btw, to clarify things to those with an interest in the MM/1; I
   am not saying it ISN'T user friendly. I've heard that for the most
   part it is, but have never seen the machine myself. I am just trying
   to make a point, and am using that for argument's sake.
        See Ya
        >Chris<

-*-

84514 1-JAN 19:40  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84511)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: THETAURUS

I heard "here" in the forum here changing chips to expand the memory,etc..
in the MM/1....if it is not of the shelf one HAS to hack it!The MM/1
and others DO not have the MASS marketing the IBM enjoyed,and live in the
marketing basement,as do others.....and also do not have the LOW $$ programs
the <IBM> has,although some are<ouch>unless the computers get cheap Good as
kind of programs the IBM uses using true multitasking multiuser programs
doing what we do now on the CoCo-3,it is ho Humm ,no one else will look!

BUT! if programs come out that are like what the IBM has ..BUT do much more
and GRABS the attention of lookers,THEN these computers will catch on...
AND it will never happen untill people start working together on a common
goal,instead of Backbiting each other and shooting themselves in the foot!
AND they MUST have the ability to read and write MSDOS disks! So that Data
can be crossed over...programs like 123/AMIPRO-3...wordperfect 6..etc
look alikes of these is manditory so one can cross over easy......
Hacking is whom ever play with the insides of ones computer<grin>..the
MM/1 came with just the boards,or with case,Etc...you still had to put it
together....the old story"build a better mouse trap and they will flock to
your door" still holds!<grin>.....But to get back,I was teed cause this
guy could not be bothered to fix a Joystick to work on his MM/1 because
he expected someone to supply him one,and complaining that it was a problem
with the makers,they should fix it!That kind of got to me<grin>
How can one think ahead to the demise of the 6pin joystick...The MM/1 has
been around for a while now And I have been modifying joysticks since
the early days.DUH !.....a modificatn so simple...Weird! <grin>....
The biggest problem is the put downing of the IBM and shunning anything
to do with it,The problem is one HAS to work with it ,rather than against it!
Since it is THE computer,and unless wuse programs thaare similar
then these computers and Osk will STAY in the basement never to see DAYLIGHT!
Regards Dennis....Ps....HAPPY NEW YEAR

-*-

84525 2-JAN 01:31  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84511)
     From: WA2EGP       To: THETAURUS

I don't know what your definition of hacking is but if you include going into a
machine without a soldering iron, just try to put a bunch of cards in a PC and
have to flip all those switches to avoid conflicts..  Whether ist is hacking or
not, that ain;t t
oo user friendly either (grin).

-*-

84551 2-JAN 18:52  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84511)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: THETAURUS

There are PLENTY of CoCo/Tandy 1000 type joysticks still out there.

Where there's a market there's a vendor.... If someone needs a joystick, then
they can buy it from a vendor, I'm sure there will be  _NO_ problem with
locating joysticks for the MM/1 for several years!!!
-Bruce Gerst-<Budgetware>-


-*-

84552 2-JAN 18:54  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84460)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MREGC

Tell you what, I'll make you a deal on the dozen or so pairs I have, and you
can include a free joystick with the first 24+ copies! ;>

-*-

84584 3-JAN 03:42  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84514)
     From: BROWN80      To: COCOKIWI

Build a better mousetrap and some corporate gianwill either buy you out or
squash you.  ...Unless you can find a way to fool them.
                      John Brown

-*-

84585 3-JAN 03:45  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84552)
     From: MREGC        To: DSRTFOX

Ah! The deal gets even sweeter! I'll REALLY have to think about it now! :)

...Eric...

-*-

84610 3-JAN 22:55  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84551)
     From: KSCALES      To: BRUCEGERST

 > There are PLENTY of CoCo/Tandy 1000 type joysticks still out there.
 >
 > Where there's a market there's a vendor.... If someone needs a joystick,
 > then they can buy it from a vendor, I'm sure there will be  _NO_ problem
 > with locating joysticks for the MM/1 for several years!!!

Yeah, we'll likely encounter problems getting new RGB-A monitors that sync
at 15,750 Hz first ;-(

Treat them CM-8s and Maggies well, folks...
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84613 4-JAN 00:11  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84584)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: BROWN80

AMEN!<grin>
Dennis

-*-

84615 4-JAN 01:03  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84610)
     From: WA2EGP       To: KSCALES

There are still a few DiamondScans out there that can do it.  Also I wish
those that know would disseminate the "switch" (for lack of a better term) that
will make the VSC output VGA.   My monitor can handle it.

-*-

84623 4-JAN 05:51  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84514)
     From: MREGC        To: COCOKIWI


[Undaunted our hero pushes on in a valiant effort to pierce the great void.]

  > BUT! if programs come out that are like what the IBM has ..BUT do much
  > more and GRABS the attention,THEN these computers will catch on...

    Ok, good; I think we're getting somewhere here. Besides the software end
of things which you describe, in order for these computers to "catch on"
users simply cannot be forced to do the type of hardware hacking which you
seem to find so basic and acceptable. Follow? Good. That's one down. Next...

  > But to get back,I was teed cause this guy could not be bothered to fix a
  > joystick to work on his MM/1 because he expected someone to supply him
  > one...

    Incorrect. As I have previously stated, I have a working joystick
already. My concern is that those who purchase my upcoming game will have
problems finding a joystick to use on their MM/1. This is a problem which
they should not have to deal with and I should not have to worry about.

    Have you actually been following this conversation, or do you just jump
to your own little conclusions after reading only a couple of words, (if that
many)? You really should be more accurate on the things you're responding to,
otherwise you end up looking ... um ... foolish.

  > ... and complaining that it was a problem with the makers,they should fix
  > it!That kind of got me<grin> How can one think ahead to the demise of the
  > 6pin joystick...The MM/1 has been around for a while now And I have been
  > modifying joysticks since the early days.DUH !.....a modification so
  > simple...Weird! <grin>....

    OH! Just when I thought we were making some progress you go and have a
relapse on me!

    Never ever assume, because when you assume, you make an... well you
probably already know the rest. Don't assume that, just because you just
heard me mention it, I'm second guessing the MM/1 "makers" years after the
fact. I got my MM/1 pretty early on in the game, and when I put it together
I noted that the use of the 6 pin din joystick and the outdated sound
connector were both, IMO, bad judgement calls. I just haven't had a reason to
mention it publicly till now. You ever heard of a little function of the
human intellect called "foresight"?

    Quoting form page 5 (five) of "Installing Your MM/1 Extended Kit,"
provided by IMS with each new MM/1, "The IMS MM/1 Personal Computer Kit you
have received was designed to use many existing industry standard parts to
make it simpler for the user to install and expand." IMO one of those
"industry standard parts" should have been an "industry standard" joystick.
This would CERTAINLY make it "simpler for the user to install and expand"
than their having to search around or special order a 6 pin DIN joystick or
IBM joystick adapter. This is not only true now, but was also true way back
then, (or at least it was if you used any of that foresight I mentioned.)

    Also, should these joysticks one day become scarce then it would be in
BlackHawk's (current MM/1 distributor) best interest to determine a
reasonable workaround. That chore CERTAINLY shouldn't fall on the shoulders
of users or software distributors.

    Didn't you just mention something about these computers catching on, and
the need to be like IBM? Well then such modifications, regardless of how
simple, should either not be necessary, or adapters should be readily
available to users. Do you think about keeping consistency in what you say,
or do your fingers just have a mind of their own?

  > The biggest problem is the put downing of the IBM and shunning anything
  > to do with it,The problem is one HAS to work with it ,rather than
  > against it!

    That's AT LEAST remotely close to what I've been saying, and AT LEAST
remotely far from almost everything else you've been saying. There's that
nagging little issue of consistency again.

  > ...and unless we use programs that are similar (to IBM) then these
  > computers and OSK will STAY in the basement never to see DAYLIGHT!

    On the same token, unless we get FAR away from your stated idea that
forcing users to have to hack their way into a usable system is acceptable,
"these computers and OSK will STAY in the basement never to see DAYLIGHT!"

...Happy New Year...

...Eric...


-*-

84630 4-JAN 10:24  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84623)
     From: CBJ          To: MREGC

Re: Outdated connectors on the MM1.
 Eric,
     Since you are an original old time purchaser of the MM1 you should be
able to recall the premise on which it was marketted to this community.  It
was to be the CoCo4!  That means it needed to use as much of the CoCo's
hardware as was possible.  This included the monitor and the joysticks.  While
I don't think that it was a really great idea when you remember that this is
a market that is reknowned for its tight purse strings these were definately
marketting decisions that were not only neccessary but prudent.
 Carl

-*-

84633 4-JAN 18:21  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84615)
     From: KSCALES      To: WA2EGP

 > There are still a few DiamondScans out there that can do it.

Yes.  I am using a Mitsubishi Diamond Scan multisync, model FA3415ATK,
myself.  I think this model is discontinued now.  There is also another
model that I have seen others mention using, but I believe the last
brochure I saw only had 15,750 Hz capability shown for the large-screen
models.  I could be mistaken on that, however.

 > Also I wish
 > those that know would disseminate the "switch" (for lack of a better term)
 > that
 > will make the VSC output VGA.   My monitor can handle it.

So can mine, but the VSC cannot do VGA: that's a misconception.
It DOES have a double-frequency mode, which will double the horizontal
sync rate into a range similar to that used by VGA (and blow a CM-8).
This mode gives double the vertical resolution, but cuts the number
of pixels generated horizontally by half (i.e., half the resolution).
To me, this mode would be nothing more than a novelty -- not very useful
at all.  Sorry to disappoint...

From my memory of the discussions on the Princeton Coco list, Kevin D
had to dive for the power switch to save his monitor when he accidentally
set this mode on his machine.  He wanted to be _extremely_ sure that a
user couldn't accidentally fry their monitor, and was thinking about
adding code that would be executed periodically to disable this mode.
Dunno what he finally did, tho.

Regards... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84638 4-JAN 22:04  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84630)
     From: MREGC        To: CBJ

Carl,

  > ...you should be able to recall the premise on which it was marketed to
  > this community. It was to be the CoCo4! That means it needed to use as much
  > of the CoCo's hardware as was possible. This included the monitor and the
  > joysticks.

    This is somewhat true, and when it comes to the case of the monitor, I
agree with you. However, another basic premise of the MM/1 marketing was that
line I quoted from the IMS installation guide, "... was designed to use many
existing industry standard parts to make it simpler for the user to install
and expand." A monitor is such a big ticket item that most of us were either
unable or unwilling to shell out the bucks to get a new one, hence, use the
CoCo's monitor. A joystick, on the other hand, is a very small ticket item, so,
IMO, the nod here should have gone towards making it "simpler for the user to
install and expand," which in this case I think would have meant using more
"industry standard" joysticks. Of course, that's just IMO.

...Eric...

-*-

84641 4-JAN 23:30  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84514)
     From: THETAURUS    To: COCOKIWI

        >>...what we do now on the Coco-3,it is ho Humm , no one else
   will look!

        I agree there pretty much. The Coco is VERY impressive, as has
   been said a million times over already, for it's class, but if you
   want to impress those big boys, we can end up looking foolish trying
   it with the Coco, I'll go into more of what I mean by this with a
   current situation I am at the end of this message.
        >> BUT! if programs come out that are like what the IBM has ..BUT
   do much more and GRABS the attention of lookers, THEN these computers
   will catch on...
    AND it will never happen untill people start working together on a
   common goal, instead of Backbiting each other and shooting themselves
   in the foot!

        Once again, we are in agreement.
        >>AND they MUST have the ability to read and write MSDOS disks!

        I thought that problem was a things of the past? I know MSF is
   available from Gale Force plus there are other shareware utility
   alternatives, and these are for the Coco, But I am sure I have heard
   of a similar manager like MSF for OSK, plus other things that will
   serve that purpose. IF that obstacle hasn't been cleared yet, I have
   no doubt it soon will be.
        >> MM/1 came with just the boards, or with case etc... you still
   had to put it together....
        Yes, true, but that still doesn't mean it's a hackers machine.
   Remember there are long term plans for the MM/1 which include
   hopefully being sold in stores one day. Don't you think they need to
   think ahead and consider the market they will be aiming at. If the
   MM/1 or one of the others is one day available in stores, do you think
   them stores are catering simply to the hacker? uh uh
        >> But to get back, I was teed cause this guy could not be
   bothered to fix a joystick to work on his MM/1 because he expected
   someone to supply him one, and complainging that it was a problem with
   the makers, they should fix it!

        Well he does have a point. I am not a hardware hacker myself, tho
   if given the instructions, IF this project is simple enough, I may be
   able to do it. The point is the MM/1 is not a Coco and shouldn't be
   marketed or treated like one with that do-it-yourself attitude. I
   think that is the point he is trying to make. I agree that is a lot
   harder to come by right now at this stage of OSK's life in the
   personal market, but he is saying that these vendors have to keep this
   stuff in mind when developing their machines. I can see the look on
   his face now. He buys a computer thinking "great, the Coco was nice,
   but now I have a machine that has SUPPORT from it's maker, and now I
   don't have to start fiddling around with the maker to make it work..."
   then he finds out that "to use a joystick you have to..." and then he
   is brought right back into the world he just got out of<Grin>. I can
   sympathise with him.

        >>How can one think ahead to the demise of the 6pin joystick...

        Well, that's an easy problem to get caught up in. I can't say
   that is IMS' fault<of course maybe they could have forseen it. I
   dunno, I'm not big on the hardware world as I've said>. What they
   should start doing right now is make them with the right joystick port
   and offer upgrades for current owners with the out dated ones. Also,
   you mention how the modification is so simple. Remember not everyone
   has the aptitude to hack or just doesn't have the confidence for it,
   and as I said shouldn't have to with any computer being sold in this
   day and age unless it is being sold for that purpose<cheap hack box>.

        >>The biggest problem is the put downing of the IBM and shunning
   anything to do with it,....

        MAJOR BIG BIG agreement here :-) This brings me to the situation
   I was mentioning earlier. I recently logged on to a local BBS which is
   the online home of the Boston Computer Society's IBM User Group, which
   has meetings at a college nearby each month. Right after I logged on,
   I started doing something wrong that the sysop noticed and he went in
   chat mode to help me out. We started talking about that Branch of the
   BCS he was part of, and we got into talking about my machine<coco>. He
   said he never heard of it, and I gave him the typical description most
   of us give about the machine and told how it runs OS-9 and of course
   he gave me the traditional, "Oh no, you must be referring to OS/2...",
   which gave me a MAJOR chuckle because I was expecting it since I first
   started chatting with him :-) I then went on to tell how OS-9 is no
   relation to OS/2, gave a summary of some of OS-9's capabilies and what
   makes it so great, and went on to tell him how there is a version of
   OS9 available to just about any machine including clones and he was
   IMMEDIATELY interested. How Interested? He asked me if I would like to
   give a demonstration on OS9 at one of the Upcoming club meetings. I
   told him how well it makes the Coco run, and THAT believe it or not,
   made him quite interested and asked if I could set my system up just
   to show the others what it can do, because the people in the group
   have a big interest now in Multitasking and take it very seriously.
   This is an offer I'm not about to refuse and told him I will be happy
   to do so, but first I have a lot of organizing to do, and want to
   attend a couple of meetings first to see just how many people I will
   be speaking to and what kind of users are they<what will interest them
   most?>. Then I would LIKE to try and get a system running OS9000
   beside it, because as I said earlier, no matter how well OS9 Level II
   performs on an 8-bit machine, I'm gonna look pretty foolish in front
   of a bunch of 386-on-up users with just a Coco. I want to show them
   how OS9 will perform for THEM and that it does a lot better than what
   the Coco shows. The guy offered to let me use one of the 386's for the
   demonstration, but of course, a copy of OS-9000 would help<G>. I don't
   think I made it enough of a point to inform him that I don't own OSK
   or OS9000 yet<G>. One idea is to see if the region representative from
   MW would like to come down and handle the OS9000 part, but I'm gonna
   wait till after a couple meetings before deciding how exactly to do
   things. Considering my native language is 'mumble' anyway, this is
   going to be an awfully tough task, to do public speaking<G>. How does
   this relate to our point about IBM bashers? What if I find that some
   have or are considering a Delphi account, or the sysop of the board is
   willing to get the OS9 fido echo? Do you think I'm honestly going t to
   refer these people to any of them online sources for information?
   Nope. Don't get me wrong, there is a ton of information here,
   considering a lot of bright people in the field are available on both
   Fido and Delphi as well as other places, but all it takes is one
   immature diehard to ruin it by ragging on his machine or Dos when he
   comes asking about this neat new system he heard about. I would rather
   Isolate them and get the information myself and post it on that board
   rather than risk that. Of course, the kiss of death will most likely
   be when we start telling them to modify their joystick ports first,
   so...<duck!> ;-)
        Btw, if anyone including the major vendors in the community have
   any advice they would like to share with me on this, I would take it
   all gratefully ;-) I have never pulled off a demonstration before and
   am real new to this, but it is also an opportunity I don't want to
   pass up. Heck I feel like now I could just tour all the local IBM
   clubs and maybe convince a few people<G>. My biggest challenge, after
   summarizing exactly what OS9 is and how it runs with all<almost all>
   machines, and after turning their heads with all the advantages of
   OS9, is 1) convincing them that it isn't so bad that there is almost
   NO software available for OS9. I know, VPC, but the next question will
   be "Why bother with OS9 if I am only running my DOS programs anyway?".
   How can I convince them there? 2) The much talked about price tag. Ed,
   you sell OS-9000, do you know if the price is reduceable if let's say
   for example sake, someone bought 20 or 30<a bulk reduction>? Plus,
   they will most likely  need G-Windows since the first software that is
   available under OS-9 will be under G-Windows<from another machine>, so
   that raises it about $300 I think. I want to be able to inform them of
   both sides of the story and give them hope :-)
        Btw, I also told the guy I was gonna try getting a Faq file for
   the board on OS9. Is there still one here somewhere? Is it fairly
   recent? ANY suggestions will be appreciated.
        >Chris<

-*-

84645 4-JAN 23:42  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84638)
     From: CHETSIMPSON  To: MREGC


   As one who works in computer retail, I should mention a few things
as to WHY the MM/1 should have actually been designed to use ACTUAL
industry standard equipment instead of the "CoCo Industry Standard Equipment
" that is was designed around.

   Currently a 16bit sound card with CD capabilities runs around $129. This
would have given many users who wish to use CD roms access to fonts, graphics
photo CD's and many other sorts of media.

   Internal modems are CHEAP! A 2400 bps modem with 9600/4800 fax capabilities
can be found for uner $80.

   a VGA monitor with .39 dot pitch runs for uner $200 and a good SVGA monitor
with .29 or .25 dot pitch can be found for $350 and below.

   I could go on and on with a whole list, but what it boild down to is that
while designing a computer to accept the expansion cards another computer
uses (one that is in a very large procution at that) makes the appeal to that
computer even more, since you can purchase the cars just about anywhere.

   The one drawback that I find with the MM/1, which has alway kept me from
buying one is its lack of expandability. I cannot change the graphics, the
chip is on board. I cannot add 16bit high-quality sound. I still have to
purchase an external modem. And to boot, I cannot keep current with new
hard drive controllers and many other innovations in computing hardware.

   So what point am "I" trying to make?? Why should I buy a computer that I
cannot expand upon 2 years from now when I can buy one that I can purchase
everything I need around the corner at the local computer store.

   You are correct, forsight is everything when designing/building/selling
and buying a computer.


Chet

-*-

84648 5-JAN 00:56  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84633)
     From: WA2EGP       To: KSCALES

OK.  I'm using a DiamondScan AUM-1390 (I think.  Figures, I can't find the
manual right now.) and it works fine.  It is a small screen (13") but even the
find print mode (90X60) is easy to see with little flicker.  That dangerous
mode would still be interesting to see even if it not worth much.  I know this
monitor can handle it (grin).  BTW, This monitor was purchased for $250
last year and the last time I talked to the source, they had 3 more.  They
could be gone by now.  Now a larger version..hmmmm..............

-*-

84652 5-JAN 04:26  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84645)
     From: MREGC        To: CHETSIMPSON

Alright, Chet, let's not go TOO far here.

    Sure designing the MM/1 around totally industry standard equipment would
have had a greater mass appeal and would in the long run have made it much
more expandable and current with the computing times, but some compromises
had to be made to stay within this market's price range for the short term.
My big point is that it should have only been the big ticket items like
monitors that should have been kept CoCo compatible. Things like joysticks and
some of the other things you mentioned could easily have been made to use
"industry standards" without inconveniencing CoCo upgraders.

    Yeah, that foresight sure does come in handy. Too bad not everyone chooses
to use it.

...Eric...

-*-

84654 5-JAN 05:08  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84641)
     From: EDELMAR      To: THETAURUS

 Chris,

 > ...  How Interested? He asked me if I would like to give a demonstration
 > on OS9 at one of the Upcoming club meetings. I told him how well it makes
 > the Coco run, and THAT believe it or not, made him quite interested and
 > asked if I could set my system up just to show the others what it can do,
 > because the people in the group have a big interest now in Multitasking and
 > take it very seriously.  This is an offer I'm not about to refuse and told
 > him I will be happy to do so, but first I have a lot of organizing to do,
 > and want to ...

 Just a couple of quick comments/responses -

 First, if you do decide to go through with this, you can count on support
 from DELMAR CO.  I can make a SYSTEM V available and, depending on timing,
 maybe a 486 running OS-9000 and G-WINDOWS, too.  May be able to get to Boston
 to assist you if you wish.

 Re MW - they have a rep in the Boston area, Denny Bridle.  He can be reached
 at 603-929-4107.

 Re discounts for multiple copies of OS-9000.  Purchased in bulk, discounts
 are available for the Run-Time version of OS-9000.  Not sure about the
 Developers Version.

 You might want to contact Carl Boll (CBJ on this forum).  He's President of
 the OS9 Users Group.  One of the UG's main functions is to support just what
 you want to do.

 Also, contact Stephen Carville (PAGAN on this forum).  He participated with
 the San Diego OS-9 Group in a show last September.  He gained a great deal of
 insight as to what will 'impress' the MS-DOS people.

 Ed Gresick
 DELMAR CO

-*-

84662 5-JAN 18:53  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84638)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MREGC

Well, at the time the MM/1 was introduced, the Tandy 1000 still used the 6 pin
DIN joysticks, and the stick was readily available. Of course, future models of
the MM/1 (MM/2?) SHOULD take into consideration that those are no longer
available and do away wi
th it... maybe come out with an adapter for older models. Joysticks are cheap
enough to replace with newer models! By the way, you COULD do a joystick
adpater to be made avaialable, or commision some to be made (try Rick Ulland).

-*-

84663 5-JAN 18:58  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84641)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: THETAURUS

I agree with you for the most part. In order to break into the mainstream
market, there needs to be something that the computer does better than others,
and then it will at least create a niche for itself. Industrial control just
doesn't get it for most pe
ople! Now, come up with an easy to interface, graphic software based HOME
CONTROL system, and THEN maybe the OSK machines will find their way into the
home. Since you have theis expensive piece controlling the heat and air, might
as well install terminal c
onnections throughout the house and do a little word processing or gaming to
get more out of your investment... just the multi-tasking/user job that OS-9
handles best!

The Amiga and Atari ST both have similar markets... Amiga video graphics and
Atari ST music and to a smaller degree some DTP, though that is pretty much
cornered by the Mac and IBM crowd like most other GP uses...

-*-

84676 5-JAN 23:13  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84610)
     From: LMCCLURE     To: KSCALES


     "Yeah, we'll likely encounter problems getting new RGB-A
      monitors that sync at 15,750 Hz first ;-("

Well, as long as Commodore stays in business, and keeps on contracting
monitors for the Amiga, you should be safe.

Right now, the people selling off used 1080's and 1084's, and buying
new 1942's, IDEK's or other multisyncs are an excellent source of
15.75Khz RGBA monitors at good prices. (I actually have one I purchased
for only $65...although $100-$150 is more typical). (BTW, both the
1942 and one of the big IDEK 17" models that are popular with Amigans
handle 15.75Khz, and are currently manufactured models).


-*-

84678 5-JAN 23:17  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84623)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: MREGC

Seems to me your idea is to NOT even open the CASE!
Hacking can mean lots of things! YOU HAVE TO PUT the DARN thing togeather!
THAT is HACKING! putting a Hard drive in is HACKING....even a new board!
<sheee>is hacking! You mean to tell me you cannot spend 5 min with a soldering
iron
to do a simple modification! like put a 25 pin plug on a joystick? solder
6 wires?.....who said I was forcing! <Shee> I have TWO joysticks<org>deluxe
Since I do not use em on the CoCo any more,I changed them to fit my 386
since I was cash short to go buy new ones! SO! WHAT!
The 68000 computers here are HACKER COMPUTERS and WILL be untill someone
WRITES programs one can use and are linkable to a IBM....Add a board or
change something in it makes one a HACKER!<grin>and figuring YOU put a
MM/1 together makes YOU one too!<grin>,The coco a Hacker computer and a
MM/1 NOT! no way Jose!
Dennis

-*-

84679 5-JAN 23:37  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84641)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: THETAURUS

<Hee,Hee> you have got yourself in a fix aint you!<grin> Love it!
That! Os9000 would be nice except for the $$$$ tag,since i have a 386 25meg
with 8 meg of memory,CD-rom...TWO H/drives 130/131 meg...SVGA..Stacker CoProc
..Etc...Robotic 14.4k..right now I,m using my 2400 Hayes....
cause I had to send my 14.4k back,bad unit!waitin for replacement one!
every so often it would clam up on itself...goto dial and Hangup!
removing the board would cure it for about two weeks!GOD!I wish I had the $$
for os9000<Sighhhh>I have to go back to my trusty CoCo-3...to play with it!
wish MW would notice the "NEW" arket out here since the CoCo os9....think of
the money they would make if they only took the blinders off for a minute or
two.
Dennis.....P.s....HAPPY NEW YEAR! Chris...

-*-

84680 5-JAN 23:47  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84654)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: EDELMAR

wish I had the $$$ for os9000,so I could spread the word,would love to have
it,BUT I,m tapped out! I spent $2000 setting up what I,ve got now!<grin>..
Wish MW would sell it Cheeeep,they'd sell a lot to all the old CoCo users
and then soe <grin>..regards...Dennis...Ps....Happy New year

-*-

84684 5-JAN 23:52  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84610)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: KSCALES

RE: a possible lack of 15.75khz monitors like the 1CM135 or CM-8 equivs...

I understand the new ATARI Jaguar has RGB-A output that I believe is 15.75khz.
If this is true and the machine sells well, and people demand better than TV
video displays to enjoy it's video output...   The 1cm135 or equiv may get an
added customer base.  This might keep these type montiors out for the Coco,
Amiga, MM/1 and Atari Jag
uar :-)


-*-

84687 6-JAN 00:33  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84676)
     From: KSCALES      To: LMCCLURE

 >      "Yeah, we'll likely encounter problems getting new RGB-A
 >       monitors that sync at 15,750 Hz first ;-("
 >
 > Well, as long as Commodore stays in business, and keeps on contracting
 > monitors for the Amiga, you should be safe.
 >
 > Right now, the people selling off used 1080's and 1084's, and buying
 > new 1942's, IDEK's or other multisyncs are an excellent source of
 > 15.75Khz RGBA monitors at good prices.

Please note the word "new" in my original message -- it was a very
deliberate inclusion.  Yeah, there will be used monitors floating around
for a while.  And maybe Commodore will keep a model or two afloat on the
"new" market... I dunno.

Last year, after reading a few articles about CRT emissions, and knowing the
number of hours I use my computer (work+play), my wife insisted that I go
out and buy a new monitor ;-)  (She's a great lady...)  A used one likely
wouldn't have made it past her, and a dot pitch above .30 for a new monitor
wouldn't have made it past me.  I'm glad I bought when I did.
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84688 6-JAN 00:43  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84678)
     From: MITHELEN     To: COCOKIWI

Hardware Hacking != pluging connectors together | tightening screws;
--
Paul

-*-

84692 6-JAN 11:33  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84662)
     From: CBJ          To: DSRTFOX

Frank,
     I doubt that you will see any changes made to the design of the MM1.  The
cost to change the board to accept the different connector would likely be the
main reason for this.  As has been mentioned here many times adapters can be
made and I'm sure that if there is a need for an adapter then a vendor (maybe
even Blackhawk Ent.) will make them and sell them.  As far as that goes I just
saw a Gravis Joystick for the Tandy 1000 (6 pin DIN) at Egghead.  I don't know
if they are in production still but they were.
 Carl

-*-

84694 6-JAN 19:57  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84654)
     From: THETAURUS    To: EDELMAR

        >> First if you do decide to go through with this, you can count
   on support from DELMAR CO...

        That sounds GREAT Ed! The first thing I have to do is find out
   about how many people attend these meetings, and also I'd like to
   attend a couple myself<the topic for the next one is DOS 6.2>, because
   I want to see what the focus is for the people in this group. This
   will give me an idea of whats in store, plus will let me know if it
   would be a good idea or not for you to go through the trouble of
   coming to Boston or lending the systems<I imagine it is a good
   distance for you to travel>, and also if *I* am making the
   presentation myself, this will cool my nerves to kind of get to know
   everyone there first. I'm not a great public speaker like I said, but
   nonetheless I DO hope there is a big crowd there<I am hoping for at
   least 30 or so>. This will make the interest in a bulk purchase all
   the more possible.
       >> they have a rep in the Boston area, Denny Bridle. He can be
   reached at 603-929-4107
        Thanks. I have his card here someplace and you saved me from
   going through the trouble of finding it. I think it is in my folder
   with all the OS-9 promotional stuff<pipelines, advertisements mailed
   to me and such>, and it would be hell finding it. He is a little way's
   up from me, somewhere in Mid-New Hampshire I believe.
        >> You might want to contact Carl Boll (CBJ on this forum).

        Yeah, I thought of that but was also thinking, isn't it a little
   early for the UG to get involved in this? What I mean is, is there
   really anything they can do for this situation, since they are still
   setting up as I understand? Carl, if your reading this, any comments
   are welcome. Would love to get the UG involved if that is a good idea.
   IF I do go through with this, as I plan to do one way or another, I
   will definately try to at least get some documentation from MW and
   other vendors<such as yourself> to handout to the people at the show.
        The hardest part about this whole deal is trying to explain the
   software situation to them. I think that would make the price issue
   less of an issue if we at least had more quality software based on
   Gwindows, that was available to the personal market. I am just hoping
   I/we can explain that to them without all of a sudden losing
   everybody's interest. On the positive side, I think we can lessen that
   effect by letting them know that, as more people buy OS-9000 and
   Gwindows based systems, more software WILL be available, plus the
   level of support they will get as MW or Delmar Co. customers should
   really peak their interest.
        >>Also, contact Stephen Carville (PAGAN on this forum).
        Thanks, I'll do that. I can't remember seeing much of him here in
   forum for a while, but then again, since I usually read them offline
   late at night, I tend to 'doze' through messages not addressed to me.
   I think understanding the mentality of the other community is going to
   be very vital in selling the idea of OS-9 to the mainstream.
        I'm also going to try and stir up a little bit of activity on the
   BBS here<which is somewhat dead, I have noticed :-( >, and get a
   glimpse of what this group is about and maybe start some conversation
   on OS-9 to get their interest a little early.

        Thanks for the support!
        >Bartles and James<
        'er...
        >Chris< :-)

-*-

84695 6-JAN 19:58  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84663)
     From: THETAURUS    To: DSRTFOX

        >>Now, come up with an easy to interface, graphic software based
   HOME CONTROL system, and THEN maybe the OSK machines will find their
   way into the home.
        Very interesting idea, tho I don't know if the average home owner
   who maybe isn't very computer literate would want to risk screwing up
   all his household appliances because a bug in his Spreadsheet crashed
   his machine. Heck, even a computer literate would worry about THAT :-)
        >> The Amiga and Atari ST both have similar markets...Amiga video
   graphics and Atari ST music and to a smaller degree some DTP,...

        I kind of admire the Amiga and Atari crowd for that. It was a
   very wise survival tactic. Instead of trying to compete with Mac and
   Clones in every area, they picked out something they can certainly do
   well with their machines and stuck to it and improved on it, making
   them competetive with the big boys<to a small degree admittedly>, in
   that area. If it wasn't for those  areas that they chose to excel in
   they would probably be gone before you could say 'Coco' ;-) Now with
   OS9 you have an interesting situation. On one hand it is a blessing
   that we have an OS that really can do just about anything, and with
   enough programmers, can have programs that can excel in just about
   every area. Problem is, since we have that capability, no one wants to
   go the Atari or Amiga route and just pick one or two things to
   concentrate on. I can understand that. We want to show how it can do
   well in all areas and everyone has a different interest<apps, music,
   video> so the efforts are spread out and 'dilluted' so to speak and
   everyone tries to make programs and hardware that suit their interest.
   Of course this might work out in the long run. It will just take more
   time, but in the end we may have a better variety  than if we went the
   other way. Just my flapping, nothing I can truly base it on except
   observations.
        See Ya!
        >Chris<

-*-

84697 6-JAN 19:58  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84679)
     From: THETAURUS    To: COCOKIWI

        >>you have got yourself in a fix aint you!<grin>...

        hehe, Actually I really wouldn't call it a fix. I'm really glad
   he asked me, and want to take this 'challenge' on. My lack of verbal
   skills,<at least with PUBLIC speaking> will be my biggest challenge,
   but I think as long as I'm convinced with what I am trying to 'sell' I
   do ok.  It will be a challenge but I'm looking forward to it. It will
   be a learning experience, and if I can pull this off ok, I may
   consider trying to get in touch with other local groups come the day I
   get my own OSK Box. A lot can be accomplished this way if things are
   done right.

        >>wish MW would notive the "NEW" arket out here since the Coco
   os9...think of the money they would make if they only took the
   blinders off for a minute or two.

        What "New" arket? Unfortunately, compared to the market MW is
   succesfull in now, the personal market for OSK is but an embryo. We
   still have a way to go, and while I wish MW could offer a 'Home
   Version' of OS-9000, they are making the smartest buisiness decision
   they could at this time. I do admit, I think they could be VERY
   instrumental in this community's mission, but let's face reality.
   There is no reason for them to throw a lot of money into such a thing
   when they are doing so well in the industrial market. I would love to
   see them offer different versions of some of their software that they
   could sell in Bulk to the OEM's at an even more reduced price to
   stimulate growth in this market<software wise>. Another thing to
   consider tho; the better they do with the Industrial market, the more
   it can only HELP us in the long run, so maybe they aren't doing such a
   bad thing afterall. I think the people who spend so much energy
   bashing MW about their lack of involvement in the personal market
   often tend to look at it from one side of the fence and don't realize,
   the only way for a company to survive, especially in this day and age
   is to MAKE MONEY.
        Here's hoping you have a great '94 Dennis, and let's hope the OS-
   9 community can pull through and make it a big year in the advancement
   of OS-9! :-)
        See Ya!
        >Chris<

-*-

84703 6-JAN 21:40  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84679)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: COCOKIWI

I agree to a limited extent, that hacking includes installing drives and pluggg
in boards. But those are things that nearly anyone can do, soldering gets more
dangerous than the average USER wants to handle... more danger in meesing
something up.

-*-

84704 6-JAN 21:46  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84695)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: THETAURUS

I can understand your thoughts! I'm not sure Amiga DID "pick" the graphics
area... the people who make the "video toaster" attachemtn chose it due to
superior graphics handling AND the use of an NTSC compatible monitor... the
rest was history!
 I think OS-9 could be made crash resistant enough to withstand a system
crash.... all you'd need is some type reset switch that would cause the system
to reboot, and maybe a log file that is updated every so often so that the
startup program will get ever
ything back on track.

-*-

84705 6-JAN 21:50  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84697)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: THETAURUS

Unfortunately, growth in the industrial market WILL NOT NECESSARILY help the
personal user. Most of the industrial systems are either embedded or
proprietary,  and the developers have no wish to see the software or hardware
go out of the industrial marketp
lace. This isn't true for ALL, but is for a large majority. You can charge more
for custom setups!

-*-

84709 6-JAN 23:27  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84704)
     From: FHOGG        To: DSRTFOX


 > I think OS-9 could be made crash resistant enough to withstand a system
 > crash.... all you'd need is some type reset switch that would cause the
 > system to reboot, and maybe a log file that is updated every so often
 > so that the startup program will get everything back on track.

All you would need is an OS9 system that would autoboot and keep the
status of the system in oh say battery backed RAM. That way on reboot
you could look in the battery backed RAM and see where you were when
you went down. Hmmm ya know the KiX has this stuff built in. <g>

Frank

-*-

84711 7-JAN 00:19  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84652)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MREGC

Unforch the "industry standard" changes with time.  The DIN plug joystick was
a standard at one time.  Now it's the 15 pin DB.  Keyboards were DIN and now
that darn 8 pin mini-DIN.  And adapters are made for keyboards.  Foresight
sometimes does not work as well as hindsight.  Look at the 4 meg SIMM problem
with the MM/1.  (My understanding is) Information was obtained from
manufactorers about the chips but timing info somehow wasn't communicated and
4 meg SIMMs won't work correctly.  "They'll work just like the 1 meg SIMM's".
NOT! (grin)  It's easy to say what should have been.  It is hard to say what
should be.  Now maybe someone can sell cheap adapters.

-*-

84717 7-JAN 02:01  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84688)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: MITHELEN

 > Hardware Hacking != pluging connectors together | tightening screws;

Awww, Paul!  Here I thought I was a hacker, and now you go and burst my
bubble!  :)  (And you used a C language IF construct to do it!)



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84723 7-JAN 14:23  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84694)
     From: CBJ          To: THETAURUS

It is true that it may be a little too early for the UG to get involved but I
wwould love to get the UG involved as soon as we can.  Contradictory?  No, the
BOD will need to set policy on this and other issues and then we can move ahead
on such items.  Right no though the focus is getting the whole shebang organized

so we can tackle items like this.  Please keep me informed.  I'll be keeping an
eye on everything here.  You might also try sending me E-mail on this with the
dates, etc.
 Carl

-*-

84731 7-JAN 23:00  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84684)
     From: LMCCLURE     To: BRUCEGERST


The Atari Jaguar is not the only game machine that supports RGB analog
output (although it could be argued that it makes fuller use of it than
the competition).


-*-

84732 7-JAN 23:01  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84687)
     From: LMCCLURE     To: KSCALES


Those 1942's and IDEK's I noted *are* NEW monitors that handle a 15.75Khz
scan rate (and above, as both are multisyncs). I was simply noting this
has also created a good supply of used 15.75Khz-only monitors for the
budget minded CoCo3 or MM/1 user.


-*-

84742 8-JAN 05:59  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84694)
     From: EDELMAR      To: THETAURUS

 Chris,

 > Yeah, I thought of that but was also thinking, isn't it a little
 > early for the UG to get involved in this? What I mean is, is there
 > really anything they can do for this situation, since they are still
 > setting up as I understand? Carl, if your reading this, any comments
 > are welcome. Would love to get the UG involved if that is a good idea.

 I believe that supporting efforts such as you're planning is one of the
 primary goals of the UG.

 Based on the last BOD meeting, I'm convinced the officers are truly dedicated
 and competant and will be more than willing to assist you wherever they can.
 So, no, I don't think it is too early.

 Ed Gresick
 Director, OS-9 UG

-*-

84743 8-JAN 05:59  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84697)
     From: EDELMAR      To: THETAURUS

 Chris,

 > What "New" arket? Unfortunately, compared to the market MW is
 > succesfull in now, the personal market for OSK is but an embryo. We
 > still have a way to go, and while I wish MW could offer a 'Home
 > Version' of OS-9000, they are making the smartest buisiness decision
 > they could at this time. I do admit, I think they could be VERY
 > instrumental in this community's mission, but let's face reality.
 > There is no reason for them to throw a lot of money into such a thing
 > when they are doing so well in the industrial market. .....

 Well stated.

 I doubt MW has the resources (or desire) necessary to make a head-on assualt
 against Microsoft, IBM and Apple.

 Look at the history.  IBM (lot's of cash) made Microsoft - even helped
 pay for some of the early WINDOW work.  Microsoft is now big enough to
 feel they can take on IBM and, so far, are doing so successfully.

 IBM is now pushing OS-2.  While it hasn't made a major dent in the MSDOS
 market, it already surpassed OS-9 in the personal/business market.  Again,
 they have the bucks.  Now, IBM in concert with Apple is going to take
 Microsoft on - it'll be interesting.

 Without getting into "should've"s and "could've"s let's look at MW.  MW's
 initial major market effort was via Tandy.  (We know what happened.)  In
 the meantime, MW went after the real-time market where they are the major
 player.

 Next is CD-I.  Again, MW isn't doing the marketing.  Phillips and others
 are doing it.  These Companies have resources far beyond MW's.  But, MW
 will make money on each CD-I unit sold.

 About the 17th of this month, look for a major announcement re VOD (Video On
 Demand) from AT&T and a couple of the 'baby' Bell Companies.  Again, the
 promotion will be done by others but MW will reap their rewards.

 I think the pattern is quite clear.  MW prefers dealing with just a few
 accounts who, in turn, have a potentially large customer base.

 For those dissatisfied with MW's marketing and pricing practices -
 Complaining and crying about MW's practices will do no good.  I don't think
 we'll get anything other than a little sympathy regarding the general busi-
 ness/consumer market.  However, if we start doing something about markets
 ourselves, we might receive favorable consideration re pricing.  And, who
 knows what else can fall out.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

-*-

84744 8-JAN 06:00  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84704)
     From: EDELMAR      To: DSRTFOX


 Frank,

 >  I think OS-9 could be made crash resistant enough to withstand a system
 > crash.... all you'd need is some type reset switch that would cause the
 > system to reboot, and maybe a log file that is updated every so often so
 > that the startup program will get ever ything back on track.

 Little surprised at the above statement - really a non-issue for OS-9
 (and most other OSs as well).  Most, if not all,  OEMs include auto-boot
 and/or menu selection for auto-boot.  The largest single factor causing
 crashes is power failures.  Most systems can recover completely to their
 previous state when power failure or other cause of crash occurs.  (Only
 equipment failure will prevent this.)  This is a 'set-up' and software
 function; i.e., boot-rom, init and/or start-up files and the app program(s).

 Not allowing this capability in today's market is like selling a computer
 without a clock.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

-*-

84763 8-JAN 22:34  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84711)
     From: LMCCLURE     To: WA2EGP


     "The DIN plug joystick was a standard at one time.  Now it's
      the 15 pin DB.  Keyboards were DIN and now that darn 8 pin
      mini-DIN."

Actually the "industry standard" joystick 10 years ago would have used
a DB9, as in Atari game systems and most computers. As to keyboards,
don't you mean a 4-pin mini-DIN (as with the PS/2, many Packard Bells,
etc.)?  The standard 5-pin DIN connector still seems to be rather
prevalent, however.

            "And adapters are made for keyboards."

Quite true...and the only real difference is the connector itself
(evidently the 5th line in the large DIN had no important function),
unlike the difference between a PC and Tandy joystick (where the
internal pots are wired differently). Actually, the change from
XT-type keyboards to the current AT-type was bigger, but involved
no physical plug change! (Try using an AT-only keyboard on an old
XT or PC, or visa-versa, and you'll see what I mean).

Personally, I cannot critisize the makers for the MM/1 for the
decision they made at the time. Most MM/1 buyers would be former
(or also) CoCo owners, and as I recall, at that time most PC joysticks
were pretty cruddy. <grin>

Nowadays, however, the PC enjoys some rather nice joysticks, and even
better some truly tempting alternative input devices such as rudder
pedals, flight yokes, etc.. Anyone designing a new computer *now*
that used analog joysticks would certainly be amiss in not following
the PC joyport standard.

-*-

-*-

84769 8-JAN 23:45  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84743)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: EDELMAR

Hi Ed, in your message you mentioned VOD and MWare reaping rewards from it,
what is VOD, and how does MWare/OS-9 fit in?

-*-

84773 9-JAN 01:33  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84763)
     From: WA2EGP       To: LMCCLURE

Forgot about those connectors.  (An I have an old Apple II+ around here)
So much for "standards"  So far, three different connectors for joysticks.
Maybe more in the future.
Designing a new computer would include using the present standard for joystick
connector.  The problem is that if someone was producing the MM/1, what is
the cost of redesigning the board for the newer connector?  Might it be cheaper
for the present to make an adapter?  I guess that would depend on the market
which is not that big.  I would expect the connector to remain as it is
unless a LARGE number of orders came in which would give a little redesigning
money.  Too bad the pins on the connectors that mount on the circuit board
were not the same for all connectors.  That would make the whole "problem"
very simple.  I guess no one had the foresight to see that (Grin).

-*-

84782 9-JAN 09:56  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84769)
     From: EDELMAR      To: ILLUSIONIST

 Mike,

 VOD is Video On Demand.  The Tel Cos will be replacing regular tel lines
 with fiber optics.  This gives them extraordinary bandwidth going into each
 home/business.  The FCC has recently given them permission to compete in
 the cable TV market.

 Some of the stuff they're talking about - of course, the normal telephone
 usage you're familiar with, Real-Time video 'conversations', TV stuff,
 direct video to computers, etc.  All occurring simultaneously over 1 fiber
 optic line.  Management of this information at each customer's location will
 be quite a chore.  Latest word I received is that OS-9 has been selected for
 this by AT&T and at least 2 of the 'baby' Bells.

 Ed

-*-

84787 9-JAN 14:14  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84782)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: EDELMAR

Thanks Ed, I remember reading about that now, I just didnt know it was
called Video On Demand, I think AT&T made the right choice, I mean,
for an application like that, OS-9 seems to be the best. Now, lets see
if FHL comes out with some majical plan to make a VOD setup into a full
OSk box.. :)

                                                -* Mike

<ducking quickly, if you see this frank, I am just kidding :) >

-*-

84794 9-JAN 18:13  Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84744)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: EDELMAR

What I was really refering to was something that would automatically start
itself back up AFTER a power failure or other crash. I know it is relatively
easy for OS-9... I knwo some people have their CoCo BBS systems set up that
way. Ready to get into the h
ome control market? Use X-10 and it would be relatively easy to do something
like I proposed, but I do believe OS-9 is capable of something more
sophisticated than the simple X-10 devices, with very little hardware!

-*-

84820 10-JAN 19:37 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84742)
     From: THETAURUS    To: EDELMAR

        >> I'm convinced the officers are truly dedicated  and competent
   and will be more than willing to assist you wherever they can. So, no,
   I don't think it is too early.

        Well, ok, I'll be more than happy to get them involved in any way
   possible, and do anything I'm involved with on behalf of the UG<that
   is what being a member is about>. I was just figuring that it was
   still setting up and organizing, and might not have the tools to get
   too involved with any projects  yet. Wow, this will make TWO projects
   to keep me busy with the UG. I better hurry up and pat myself on the
   back LOL.
        I think one thing I could do is maybe write up a summary, of how
   it went, and make it and article for MOTD. I will include things I
   have learned in the experience, so that we can give others the
   motivation to get involved and take up other such projects in their
   area. These may not be BIG shows or anything, but lots of little
   'stuff' always does add up. Hopefully that article will give them some
   ideas how things should be done. That is one more reason Stephens
   comments on this will be all the more welcome. The more people I learn
   from the better. By the way, you know when the next MOTD is due out?
        See Ya in a bit :-)
        >Chris<

-*-

84821 10-JAN 19:37 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84743)
     From: THETAURUS    To: EDELMAR

        >>I think the pattern is quite clear. MW prefers dealing with
   just a fewe accounts who, in turn, hve a potentially large customer
   base.
        That seems to be it. Plus another big money maker, is the bucks
   they make to install and service<if necessary> the hardware and
   software that they have in the industry. MW, like any other buisiness
   that plans to be around more than five minutes is market driven. There
   never any point in them taking on giants like Microsoft when they can
   do well in their own little niche, while hoping to expand untill they
   are ready to but heads with them.
        Btw, this just comes off the top of my head, since we are
   somewhat on the subject...Would it make it cheaper for someone to buy
   let's say, a version of OS-9000 off you instead of MW, since you get it
   at bulk rate, or is the difference big enough to bring in a good
   enough profit? Just curious how that might work.
        >Chris<

-*-

84830 11-JAN 03:15 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84662)
     From: MREGC        To: DSRTFOX


  > By the way, you COULD do a joystick adapter to be made available, or
  > commission some to be made

    And of course if it came down to this I would do just that. However, I
would be rather ticked that it fell on me as a software distributor to
compensate for a hardware problem.

    Hopefully this is all academic and the problem never even surfaces.

...Eric...

-*-

84831 11-JAN 03:21 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84711)
     From: MREGC        To: WA2EGP


  > The DIN plug joystick was a standard at one time.

    I don't know that I would say it was ever a "standard". Of course it just
depends on your definition. Did anyone besides CoCo and Tandy 1000 people ever
use it? Frankly, I have no idea.

  > Look at the 4 meg SIMM problem with the MM/1.

    That was a bit different. The proper foresight, planning and design were
there; they were simply victims of misinformation, from what I understand.

...Eric...

-*-

84832 11-JAN 03:22 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84678)
     From: MREGC        To: COCOKIWI

Dennis,

  > Seems to me your idea is to NOT even open the CASE!

    Since you're involving yourself in a discussion about the MM/1 I'll take
it for granted that you have some knowledge of the history of the MM/1's
marketing, (if not then you have absolutely no business discussing something
which you know absolutely nothing about and haven't even bothered to inquire
about before making your decisions on the matter.) If so, then you know that
one of Paul's biggest objectives, (which, to date, has yet to be met,) was to
have the MM/1 available to consumers (read non-hacking USERS) already
assembled and ready to go. This would require no "hacking", (using your
definition of the word,) unless the user decided to connect some type of
add-on to their system, like more memory, which would require going inside
the box. This, however, would be no more work than an owner of a mainstream
system would have to do to accomplish similar results. And since we're
speaking of having mainstream appeal here, this would be acceptable.

    Exactly what problem do you have with someone who doesn't feel they
should have to, or just plain doesn't want to open their case? I don't
remember any of the OSK systems being marketed as "hacker's" systems, yet
you seem to think its OK if an unspoken prerequisite for owning one of these
systems is having skill with a soldering iron. I've never used one in my
life, and I don't think that I, or any other *user* who doesn't want to
should have to use one just to make reasonable use of their system.

  > You mean to tell me you cannot spend 5 min with a soldering iron to do a
  > simple modification!

    See the last paragraph above.

  > I have TWO joysticks<org>deluxe Since I do not use em on the CoCo any
  > more,I changed them to fit my 386 since I was cash short to go buy new
  > ones! SO! WHAT!

    Exactly. So What?

  > The 68000 computers here are HACKER COMPUTERS and WILL be untill someone
  > WRITES programs one can use and are linkable to a IBM...

    Does your tunnel-thought (similar to tunnel-vision) only allow you to
consider the softare aspect of this situation? Can't you see that having
hardware that doesn't have to be hacked into a useable system is just as
important to mainstream acceptance as the software you keep focussing on?
Don't you understand that IMS' original philosophy behind the MM/1 was for it
to be a USER'S system that wouldn't require the hacking you seem to be so
defensive of? Can you comprehend that the arguments I'm making are aimed
towards making the MM/1 meet that ideal which IMS had originally set for it?
And finally, why is it that you seem to think that the minimum REQUIREMENT
for even being able to own one of these systems should be that someone has
the same hardware hacking ability as you do and that they be willing to use
it to get a workable system?

...Eric...

-*-

84848 12-JAN 01:48 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84820)
     From: AJMLFCO      To: THETAURUS (NR)

Here are two things to add to your demonstration list:

1.   With Gwindows up and running and with several windows
open, press the reset button!  Watch it restore most everything
in just a few seconds without messing up the hard drive, etc.
Offer to test the same procedure on a PC running MS-Windows
or OS/2.  Mention that real-time operating systems need to be
"robust"  and "crash-proof".

2.   While you are doing demonstration #1, note the time
required to restore the system after a reset.  You should
be comparing 8-10 seconds compared to a minute or so for
OS/2.  Quite a difference.

3.  (bonus idea)  Arrange a demonstration of re-entrant
software.  Load and execute 30 copies of a program and then
run mfree to see how little it all uses!  Along the same
topic line, discuss the CIO trap module ( a real neat
concept, I think).

4.  (another bonus idea)  Compare "kernel" sizes with
OS/2, unix, or other "bloatware".  How can MW get so
much done with so little code?

Allen

-*-

84849 12-JAN 01:59 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84821)
     From: AJMLFCO      To: THETAURUS (NR)

Re: 84821

The industrial market is not all that small, either! To
quote from the June 1993 issue of "Control" magazine:
"Embedded real-time software market to triple--
The market for embedded real-time software will grow
from $2.7 Billion in 1990 to $7.6 billion in 1995 as
users move away from in-house developed system software
according to a study released by International Data Corp...."

Now, is there anyone here who would not like to have
even one percent of that market?  Someone with sales
approacing 20% of that market would be one of the top
100 companies in the US.

Allen

PS.  Anyone know if Microware is privately held?  Can
you buy stock in Microware?  If so, what is the current
price?


-*-

84850 12-JAN 05:15 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84832)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: MREGC

the BIGGEST problem I had with those MM/1,s Was ..the LONG,Longgggg wait
to get one!<reason I never brought one>and getting bits and pieces months
apart ...<although THAT is NOT a Problem NOW> it was back then!
WOW! you have never looked inside!<grin> you should have got a CLONE!
Standard ,straight off the shelf,untouched by human hands!<Shee>
Lets see ...Ah..I need a Hard drive...Ah! yes a CD-rom drive..You mean you
are too much a DUMMY to install ANYTHING..IMS is NO different to a CLONE!
ONE does UPDATE ones computer now and then! THAT!is Hacking!if one wants to
...If you want to pay others $60 an hour to upgrade,well you are NUtS...
or have more money than us!

-*-

84855 12-JAN 20:48 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84849)
     From: BOISY        To: AJMLFCO

Microware is a privately held corporation.  Only employees are allowed
to buy stock in the company.

-*-

84858 12-JAN 22:46 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84831)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MREGC

Ah....but that was where "foresight" didn't work (grin).  Unforch, the computer
field changes so rapidly that once you buy the machine, it is obsolete, it may
no longer be standard and support may (will) disappear within a year (grin).
There were a couple of other Tandy computers that used the same joystick
connector.  I have one that works with a CoCo joystick and it wasn't mentioned
(unless 1000 includes all of the series).  Oh well.  Somehow this reminds me
of a RS customer that bought a new computer and came back b****ing that he
had a Mitsubishi keyboard and not a Tandy keyboard.  Right now there are
three joystick connectors out there.  I guess adapters are forbidden (grin).

-*-

84867 13-JAN 04:52 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84858)
     From: MREGC        To: WA2EGP


  > I guess adapters are forbidden (grin).

    No, no. In fact, adapters will be a Godsend! :)

    The discussion about the intelligence behind the idea to use the DIN
joystick is all academic anyway. What's done is done and now we have to live
with it.

    My whole point from the start, (which seems to have completely flown over
at least one person's head,) is that, as a software provider, I don't think
that I should have to be worried about my customers'/potential customers'
ability to get a joystick to use my software. Bottom line, that's it.

...Eric...

-*-

84868 13-JAN 05:38 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84850)
     From: MREGC        To: COCOKIWI

Dennis,

  > WOW! you have never looked inside!<grin>

    No, I did put my system together. I added the extra floppy and hard
drive. However, as these things are also done by "normal" IBM and Mac users
I don't consider it "hacking".

  > you should have got a CLONE!

    I think you're kidding here, but even if you are that attitude does
exist here, and its that same attitude that keeps us down. I KNOW I am, and
I think most of us are perfectly capable of deciding what system we wish to
buy.

  > Standard ,straight off the shelf,untouched by human hands!<Shee>

    And what's wrong with that? On several occassions you've presented what
you think we need to do to attack some of the mainstream market. Don't you
think (or rather can you) that standard, straight off the shelf systems are
just as important to mainstream success?

  > You mean you are too much a DUMMY to install ANYTHING..

    Kidding or not, say something that disrespectful to me again and I'll
throw every one of my considerable IQ points at you in grand fashion with a
flow of words that'll hit harder than any boxer's punch you care to mention.

    You're kidding here, right? Just having fun baiting me? I can't believe
anyone here could be that incredibly st ... forget it. Can you honestly not
understand those rather simple, yet very important questions I asked you at
the end of that last message? We keep going around in circles here without
seeming to get anywhere. Even a person like ME could get disheartened! <grin>


...Eric...

...The Phoenix Bullet...
...Suckers Duck...

-*-

84872 13-JAN 19:52 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84868)
     From: JOHNREED     To: MREGC


 >     You're kidding here, right? Just having fun baiting me? I can't believe
 > anyone here could be that incredibly st ... forget it. Can you honestly not
 > understand those rather simple, yet very important questions I asked you at
 > the end of that last message? We keep going around in circles here without
 > seeming to get anywhere. Even a person like ME could get disheartened! <grin>

 >
 > ...Eric...
 >
 > ...The Phoenix Bullet...
 > ...Suckers Duck...
 >

 Sometimes, I think the problem in forum messages is that you can't
 see that he was smiling when he said that .... assume he was, anyway.

 You are absolutely right.

 Like many of the owners of 68k machines here, I am a technician and
 electronics hobbiest.  I actually enjoy tearing into the poor thing
 with soldering irons and test equipment.

 BUT.... when shooting for the "mainstream" computer market, the
 ability to read a schematic diagram should not be a prerequisite.

 The reason we have all these great toys at prices we can afford
 is that all those "users" (the ones who don't own soldering irons)
 have bought the biggest share of the computers and related products
 --in such volume that the prices came down.  We shouldn't speak
 harshly of those "users", without them, megaBytes would still cost
 megaBucks.

 How many people would buy the neatest new car in the world if they
 had to buy and install all their own optional equipment?

 David Graham (in another thread) has made it clear that he intends
 to sell machines that will NOT require a technician on standby.





           John R. Wainwright

 <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

 *********** InfoXpress ************

-*-

84874 13-JAN 20:04 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84872)
     From: NIMITZ       To: JOHNREED

Actually, I'm going to give it the best shot a one man  non-technician shop can
give it!


-*-

84877 13-JAN 21:23 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84867)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MREGC

Agreed.  I've seen ads for a local software house for programs and it always
says what's required.  It is up to the user to get the equipment.  Even
joysticks it says adapter board required.  Now you could sell an adapter for
a little extra (Grin).

-*-

84886 14-JAN 04:40 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84872)
     From: MREGC        To: JOHNREED

John,

  > Sometimes, I think the problem in forum messages is that you can't see
  > that he was smiling when he said that ... assume he was, anyway.

    You're probably right, however, I just couldn't take the chance that it
was serious and not respond, especially considering the brief history of this
conversation.

    To me there exists a certain etiquette to all conversation, even
argumentation, such that, when broken, I see as a blatant form of disrespect,
and I've never been one to allow any disrspect. >:-)

  > David Graham ... has made it clear ... sell machines that will NOT require
  > a technician on standby.

    Yeah, David really seems to have the right idea. I'm doing my best to try
to support him all the way.

...Eric...

-*-

84887 14-JAN 04:45 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84877)
     From: MREGC        To: WA2EGP


  > It is up to the user to get the equipment.

    This is true. However, it only works if the necessary equipment is
available. From what others have said, at least for the time being, the
"necessary equipment" in this case can still be found. I hope this remians to
be the case.

  > Now you could sell an adapter for a little extra (Grin).

    Sure, if it comes down to that. Of course, then I would need a supplier...
You got any skills with a soldering iron??? :)

...Eric...

-*-

84892 14-JAN 23:17 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84886)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: MREGC

Me !serious! NAW!<grin>....:-)
just insanly jelous.since I DON,T have one!<G>
Dennis

-*-

84898 14-JAN 23:57 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84887)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MREGC

Skills with a soldering iron I do have.  Worked 2 years in a factory as a
"tester" (electronic tech with no papers <g>) and have build equipment since I
was in high school.  Ah....I think that might qualify me.  Geez, must be tired.
That should have been built. (OK, I can't write tech manuals)

-*-

84906 15-JAN 05:22 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84892)
     From: MREGC        To: COCOKIWI (NR)


  > just insanely jelous.since I DON,T have one!<G>

    Hey, don't worry about that. We're really jut now starting to take off
anyway! :) There's plenty of time left to join in! (I hope :) )

...Eric...

-*-

84907 15-JAN 05:24 Games & Graphics
     RE: MM/1 Joystick (Re: Msg 84898)
     From: MREGC        To: WA2EGP (NR)

    Then I'll keep you in mind if I ever need to go searching for an adapter
supplier! :)

...Eric...

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84512 1-JAN 18:01  Programmers Den
     Basic program
     From: THETAURUS    To: ILLUSIONIST

        Mike I just wanted to let you know, that after getting
   sidetracked, I finally got around to unarchiving your BSUBS, and
   replaced the original code you gave me with toupper.b09 and it worked!
   Actually at first it didn't... I realized when I opened a path to
   disk, I had the the wrong access mode<now I know what that error
   means<G>. It WAS read+dir but should have been update+dir since you
   need write access to delete a file. Thanks for your help :-)
        See Ya
        >Chris<

-*-

84590 3-JAN 17:27  Programmers Den
     RE: Basic program (Re: Msg 84512)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: THETAURUS

Hey, no problem, if I can be of any more help..just give me a yell..

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84517 1-JAN 21:56  General Information
     old Mac 512
     From: JAYODER      To: ALL

 Hi all,

 I was wondering if anyone here has any info about the old Mac 512.
 A guy in my area is selling one and I'm interested in it. He is asking
 $150.00 for it but I plan on offering $100.00. He said that drive was
 upgraded to 800k so that seems like a bonus considering the age of the
 machine. If anyone give me some specs and other info I would appreciate
 the help. Thanks in advance and happy New Year!

 Jeff

-*-

84520 1-JAN 22:25  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84517)
     From: DAVIDAH      To: JAYODER

You should post this in the Mac Sig forum.
----Dave

---Dave


-*-

84617 4-JAN 01:45  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84520)
     From: JAYODER      To: DAVIDAH (NR)

 I have posted this in the Mac sigu! here on Delphi and CIS. I posted here
 because I know there are people that have experience with Macs and even
 run OS9 on them. I thought that perhaps these people might have some
 info regarding the Mac 512 that could help me.

 Jeff

-*-

84664 5-JAN 19:01  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84617)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JAYODER

I have some info on the Mac and OS-9.... OS-9 costs over $400 for the Mac!

-*-

84672 5-JAN 20:42  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84664)
     From: FHOGG        To: DSRTFOX

ah ummm actually the OS9 version on the Mac costs over $1000. The 32 bit
version costs 1190. The 16 bit is less but not much under $1K. I 'think' about
999 or so.

Frank

-*-

84702 6-JAN 21:36  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84672)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: FHOGG

So we buy a $400 Mac 512 and pay $1000 for OS-9???? Sound sane to you? ;>
(hah... get a KiX, right?)

-*-

84708 6-JAN 23:18  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84702)
     From: FHOGG        To: DSRTFOX

 > get a KiX, right?

Sounds reasonable to me.

Frank

-*-

84740 8-JAN 05:00  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84617)
     From: PAGAN        To: JAYODER

 I've been down with the flu for the past few days so I must have missed or,
 at least, overlooked your original message but I gather that you're looking
 at a 512K Mac for $400.

 The Mac could be used as a terminal to an OS9 system.  The fellow that wrote
 WizPro (Brady?) used his like that for some time before dropping out of
 sight.  I think he used Red Ryder as his terminal software.

 If someone is planning on using a 512K mac for any serious work I'd advise
 them to forget it.  I don't think that any system later than 4 will run on
 it (depanding on which ROMS it has) and none of the software avaialble now
 will run in a paltry 512K - most requires at least 1 meg with 4 (!) Meg
 recommended.  There may be an upgrade available to 1 Meg and later ROMs - if
 not, don't expect any kind of support from Apple for it.

 Once you've entered the MacinDOS world upgrading is a continual process.
 Modern object oriented program design and the emphasis on reusability has
 created an upward spiral in executable size and a downward spiral in
 execution speed.  A 512K Mac is deficient in two critical areas; only 1/2
 Meg of RAM and an 8mhz processor.

 A 512K COCO is a useful machine that serves thousands of users every day.  A
 512K Mac, OTOH, is a relic of a bygone era and properly belongs in a museum,
 a hacker's laboratory (if he has a specific use for it) or stripped for
 parts.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

84757 8-JAN 15:20  General Information
     RE: old Mac 512 (Re: Msg 84740)
     From: JAYODER      To: PAGAN

 Stephen,

 Thanks for the info on the Mac 512. I've come to the very conclusion
 you ststate at the end of your message. I'll be spending my money on
 things that deal more directly with my favorite OS and machines! :)

 Thanks again for the info!

 Jeff

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84518 1-JAN 22:12  System Modules (6809)
     2 meg VDGInt
     From: NEALSTEWARD  To: DISTO

Tony,
Is there anyway of incorporating Alan Dekok's VDGInt patches into the
2 meg VDGInt patches.  It seems that more system RAM would help a 2 meg
system.  Also, the 6309 version would help with speed as well as size.
I'm afraid such a task is way beyond my capabilities.

-*-

84539 2-JAN 09:06  System Modules (6809)
     RE: 2 meg VDGInt (Re: Msg 84518)
     From: DISTO        To: NEALSTEWARD

I am afraid that I am not too good in software, I guess anything is poossible
with the right programmer, ask around. -Tony.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84519 1-JAN 22:15  General Information
     OS-9 Modules
     From: NEALSTEWARD  To: ALL

I remember seeing a message about someone trying to put together a
comprehensive list of OS-9 modules and patches.  Has this project
been completed or is it still in the works?  If so, what is the name
of the file?

-*-

84529 2-JAN 02:41  General Information
     RE: OS-9 Modules (Re: Msg 84519)
     From: REVWCP       To: NEALSTEWARD

Dear Neal:
There was a listing, I believe in the General Information DB. Rickuland of
CONECT sells PAtch09 which gathered all the various patches and installs
them.  The problem with this sort of project is that it is never finished.
There are several patches for CC3IO, CC3DISK, OS9p1, OS9p2, etc. that might
not work with each other.  One of the desires of the OS9 User's Group, is
the "finalize" the 6809 OS9 Level 2 system.  (Of course some of the 6309
stuff will not work with the 6809 stuff, and that is a whole other problem).
Several individual tried a "patch of the week" approach.  Jason Bucata was
trying that until he left the SIG. start reading at message 62027, also
read 60167
                  and that file in the database is called Upgrade.info by donald
lf.  I
hope this helps.
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User's Group Treasurer

-*-

84642 4-JAN 23:31  General Information
     RE: OS-9 Modules (Re: Msg 84519)
     From: THETAURUS    To: NEALSTEWARD

        >>Has this project been completed or is it still in the works?
        No it hasn't but if you haven't heard about Patch_OS-9, contact
   "Dsrtfox" here. It so far is the closest thing and has most of the
   latest and greatest for Level 2 and MV in there.
        >Chris<

-*-

84760 8-JAN 20:06  General Information
     RE: OS-9 Modules (Re: Msg 84529)
     From: NEALSTEWARD  To: REVWCP

The hardest part of making new boots seems the documenting of the modules
in my HUGE modules directory on my hard drive.  I am working a a B09
program to read the header info (like ident) and open a database to save
the info along with a description of each one.  Rather than rewrite a
database though, I was thinking of simply interfacing this program to
sculptor.  One stumbling block so far is with 6309 modules.  Do you
think the Type bit in the module header can be defined so Ident will
report 6309 Object instead of 6809 Object?  I would think Ident, Shell
or Shell+ and RMA would have to be patched to accept this as a new
standard.  Maybe even Basic09 because it checks the type byte when
loading a module.  Any thoughs or input would be appreciated.  BTW,
thanks for the information regarding Upgrade.info file.


-*-

84775 9-JAN 02:03  General Information
     RE: OS-9 Modules (Re: Msg 84760)
     From: REVWCP       To: NEALSTEWARD (NR)

This is something I will have to look into.  I would guess that if the module
was in memory, you could have a subroutine look for a register that is only
in the 6309 and not in the 6809 chip.  I will get back to you on this one.
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User's Group Treasurer

-*-

84823 10-JAN 19:37 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Modules (Re: Msg 84760)
     From: THETAURUS    To: NEALSTEWARD (NR)

             >>I am working on a B09 program to read the header info....
        Wow, that sounds like a cool project! Keep me<us> informed on how
   it works out. I would love to have a similar program like that, and
   considered taking on a 'FileCAP' project once, with all data being in
   a file in /dd/sys. I may try something like that one of these days, at
   least for the learning experience.
           >>I was thinking of simply interfacing this program to
   Sculptor.
        Do you have sculptor for the Coco? If so, how do you like it?
   I've been heavily considering picking up IMS, if I don't resolve my
   current Nag with profile. I really don't want to write the database in
   Basic right now. It will take me too long, and I already have other
   Basic projects to keep me busy. Plus, I need an excuse to buy IMS<G>.
        >Chris<

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84523 1-JAN 23:18  General Information
     CoCo II Emulator
     From: JES68K       To: JMURPHY

Your upload commentary on the Coco-2 Emulator ended with: RUN Level-1 OS9.
Does this infer that someone has been successful in this or just a wish
on your part?  I believe it is impossible personally.  If impossible, it
should not have been "wished for" -- just adds confusion.

        === Jesse ===

-*-

84527 2-JAN 02:03  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84523)
     From: JMURPHY      To: JES68K

>>Your upload commentary on the Coco-2 Emulator ended with: RUN Level-1 OS9.
>>Does this infer that someone has been successful in this or just a wish
>>on your part? I believe it is impossible personally. If impossible, it
>>should not have been "wished for" -- just adds confusion.

My name is John Murphy, I'm 29 years old and have been involved in the computer
industry
 industry for about 14 years, either as a user, salesman, tech support rep, or
consultant. And who are you, Mr. JES68K? Nice name.
What do you mean by infer? I don't "infer" anything. It is a simple fact.
I don't idly wish for the impossible. I'm glad you "believe it is impossible
personally." And what do your personal beliefs have to do with the FACT that
the emulator DOES run level 1 ? Who exactly is adding to the confusion ?

Now that I've got THAT out of the way, all I can say is that I, PERSONALLY, was
successful in playing the Radio Shack game, "Trivia Fever" using the emulator.
If Trivia Fever IS NOT Level 1 then I apologize, and will ask the db manager
to amend the description. If, however, others agree that TF is indeed OS9, and
that the emulator does indeed run the game successfully, I will not ask that
the description be modified.

John Murphy


-*-

84531 2-JAN 03:02  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84527)
     From: EARTHER      To: JMURPHY

What version of OS-9 Level I will your emulator handle?

Shawn Driscoll

-*-

84532 2-JAN 03:07  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84531)
     From: JMURPHY      To: EARTHER

Shaun,
First off, it isn't actually MY emulator. I just snagged it off of CI$ and
don't spend much time here,
as rule. My ID on the 'serve is 73077,2305.

t said:  I'm not certain WHICH version. I didn't do extensive testing,
but I DID run "Trivia Fever" ok. As memory serves, that is OS9 L1 based,
correct?

Try "Trivia Fever" and let me know what results you get!

Thanks,
John Murphy

-*-

84553 2-JAN 19:04  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84527)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: JMURPHY

Your CoCo II Emulator works great!  THANKS!!

So far, I have been able to run a Simulations (Rainbow) Disk and all works very
well.  Haven't tried OS-9 Level I yet.


-*-

84557 2-JAN 21:25  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84553)
     From: JMURPHY      To: BRUCEGERST

Bruce,
Thanks for the comments, however, as you see from the documentation, it
isn't MY emulator. I only found it on Compuserve and decided I should upload
it here, as well.

I may have overstated the level 1 support, however. The only thing I have been
able to get to work is "Trivia Fever". Since TF requires L1 and the emulator
ran TF fine, I thought I was safe in saying it supported L1. So far, though,
stock L1 does NOT seem to work. Based on the fact that TF runs, I still think
SOMEONE out there will figure out what it takes to get "regular" L1 to run.

Good luck...
John Murphy

-*-

84558 2-JAN 21:27  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84527)
     From: JES68K       To: JMURPHY

Yeah John,
     Ha Ha you really got me laughing on that response.  Didn't mean to
rattle your cage!  I apologize.  Didn't mean to confount your intelligence
or experience.  Actually, my message was more simple: a lot of messages have
been on Fidonet concerning this particular Emulator and its capability.
Although several have run RS-DOS stuff under it ..... no one and I repeat
no one has even verified (not even the author!) that it was capable of
running a dynamic operating system like OS9.
     If you have run an OS9 game .... did you also run the OS at command
line level?  You see this is the kind of feedback that others are looking
for ...... details my man.  How many others do you know who have verified
that OS9 indeed runs?  If it is just yourself .... you have a golden
opportunity here to SHARE your experiences with the OS9 community ... for
indeed a lot of people who own multiple computers (including MS-DOS) are
asking the questions .... you seem to be one who can answer them.
     So please fill us in.  A list of the game paks that run would be nice
also.  I appreciate your effort ...... tell us the full details though,
so that others can utilize this program to its fullest!  It would be nice
if your response could be put on Fidonet as well.

      === Jesse ===

-*-

84561 2-JAN 22:00  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84558)
     From: JMURPHY      To: JES68K

Uh, yeah.

I MAY have been a little cranky... I just recently found out how many people
have been looking at this and finding that it does not SEEM to work with
Level 1.

The only thing I can vouch for is Trivia Fever. After responding to your
message I figured, "Heck, all I have to do is rename the startup, copy the
disk over to the PC and I'm laughing!" I gave up playing about 4:30 AM EST.
I was fuming, first at you, for thinking I was a moron, and then even more so
at myself, because it turned out that potentially, I AM a moron.

I will say now, after HOURS of attempting what should have been a no-brainer,
that my u/l description may have been worded poorly. I guess I should have said
that L1 runs ONLY if running TF.

I still submit (gotta save SOME face) that:
1. TF _requires_ Level 1
2. COCO12 runs TF.
3. COCO12 runs L1.
QED.

Now I have to say, its going to take someone with more brains than me to explain

why TF runs and stock L1 does not. I do hope that this at least puts people on
the right track!!!

I'm going to do some more digging myself, but I doubt I'll come up with any
answers before the rest of the COCO / OS9 community.

Until I saw this program on CIS, it had been about 5 years since I last fired
up my COCO.

John Murphy

P.S. Thanks for not flaming back. I'm still pretty sheepish, and _TIRED_

-*-

84563 2-JAN 22:21  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84561)
     From: JES68K       To: JMURPHY

I understand fully, John.  And thanks for giving us something else to check
out ....... now what needs to be done is: analyze what the Trivia Fever game
does?
    The real reason I don't believe that OS9 Level 1 can be emulated and
run at command line level is (1) the basic nature of the OS's operation is
too dynamic for any emulator <--- now I'm stretching my knowledge of OS9!
And there are experts on OS9 here, so I'll try not to climb out too far on
this limb myself! (2) a test of Trivia Fever to see if it is a what I call
a REAL OS9 game: that is can you quit the game and return to the OS?  If
you cannot .... that means that the game could be a quick port from RS-DOS
with just enough support routines to never really use OS9 in any full way.
(3) my understanding of game coding is that sometimes authors do cute things
that break some of the OS rules for programming ..... like shutting down
multi-tasking.
    It will be interesting to get more info on which games work and which
don't and thanks to your input ..... a lot more software will have to be
tried to understand the full capability of this Emulator.
       Thanks for the info, John.

             === Jesse ===

-*-

84569 2-JAN 23:54  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84558)
     From: EARTHER      To: JES68K

     I don't know why JMURPHY barked at you when asked about running
 OS-9 Level I with the emulator?  Instead of going into his "14 years of
 experience with computers, etc...", he could have simply answered,
 "I don't know?  I don't write the stuff."

Shawn Driscoll

-*-

84571 3-JAN 00:03  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84569)
     From: JMURPHY      To: EARTHER

Shawn,
Jesse and I have cleared up our misunderstanding. If you'll look at the messages

we sent to each other I think it's pretty clear what happened. I still say that
Trivia Fever qualifies as OS9. Granted, I did not try all the OS9 stuff I have,
but the first thing I tried worked, so when Jesse said that stuff about
"personally believing" and "wish"es, yeah, I was pretty flip.

Funny you didn't ask ME about my "going into his '14 years of experience'"...
Thanks for the input.

I THINK Jesse is ok with my responses. If not I'm sure JESSE will let me know.

John

-*-

84575 3-JAN 00:38  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84571)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JMURPHY

What VERSION number of OS-9 Level 1 did you try, and what Version is on the
Trivia Fever disk? That may shed some insight... If they are the same version,
then perhaps certian modules/drivers/managers are different.
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84578 3-JAN 01:03  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84575)
     From: JMURPHY      To: MITHELEN

Well, the Version number is 1. If the amount of decimals and zeroes makes
a difference, I'll have to get back to you, but the only non-zero was before
the decimal. Yeah, I know, pretty vague. Sorry.

Simply renaming the startup to startup.bak is enough to hose the boot.
I need to be REAL clear on this for you and anyone else following this:
I grabbed the first L1 disk I could find. (Possibly the only one I'll be able
to find. It's been five years since I last used my COCO on a regular basis.
I've moved twice, got married, bought a house, etc. and a LOT of my COCO stuff
got tossed along the way)

Any way, the first (only?) L1 disk I could find was Trivia Fever. I tried it,
it worked. On this basis I assumed, (yes, I know...) that I was running L1 on
a PC. Seemed reasonable to me AT THE TIME. I've since tried juggling the
startup for TF a few different ways, to no avail. If the game isn't running,
neither is the OS.

Can ANYONE else confirm / deny that Trivia Fever works ?????

Sorry, I am not going to be able to shed much more light on this....

And yes, I realize this looks like the boy who cried wolf, etc. I am afraid I've

probably damaged my credibility in the COCO / OS9 community beyond repair with
this fiasco.

Thanks for the comments, tho.

John Murphy

-*-

84587 3-JAN 08:26  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84561)
     From: BOISY        To: JMURPHY

If my recollection is accurate, Trivia Fever comes with OS-9 Level One
Vr. 1.1.0 as its underlying o.s.  Has anyone looked at the possibility
that the emulator can run 1.1.0 OS-9 Level One but not 2.0 OS-9 Level One?

-*-

84604 3-JAN 21:34  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84587)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: BOISY

I thought about that possibility also. Don't you have access to a 386 or
higher PC Boisy? The emulator is in the database. I have downloaded it, but
with the next issue of 68 micros due soon, and end of year book-keeping tasks,
it will be some time before I get a chance to play with it on my 486/50.

-*-

84606 3-JAN 21:46  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84604)
     From: BOISY        To: DSRTFOX

Yeah, we tried it today at work on a 60MHz Pentium.  Screams...

I tried it on a 25MHz 386 and it's actually slower than a CoCo in the
emulator.  The guy who did this needs to do a CoCo 3 emulator.  If that's
the case, I'm buying a laptop 486.  Period.

-*-

84611 3-JAN 22:55  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84561)
     From: KSCALES      To: JMURPHY

Hi, John -

Got your messages, both here (email) and on the MECCO BBS.  Great hearing
from you again!  I think a lot of folks are pleased to see the Christmas
present you posted. <g>

 > I'm going to do some more digging myself, but I doubt I'll come up with
 > any answers before the rest of the COCO / OS9 community.

Hmmm... if you come out to our OS-9 club meeting this Thursday night
(Glebe Community Centre), maybe I can bring my '386DX and we can try
playing around with it there.  One catch tho... first you're going to
have to help me re-install MS-DOS.  Took it off when I re-partitioned
my hard drive to install OS-9000 (a portable version of OS-9), and
haven't managed to get it back on.  (Lack if incentive or inclination...
but I think I am going to have to do it now for office stuff.)

Cheers... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84616 4-JAN 01:12  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84578)
     From: WA2EGP       To: JMURPHY

Didn't damage your credibility with me.  I guess it runs the parts of OS9 that
the game needs, but not the whole thing :->.  Probably the multitasking part
blows up.  Those darn unIntelligent chips don't seem to like that stuff.  From
what I read in your upload description, I got got the impression that TF was
the only thing you tried so no guarentees...and it wasn't your program anyway.
'nough said.

-*-

84734 8-JAN 01:48  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84587)
     From: ZOGSTER      To: BOISY

> If my recollection is accurate, Trivia Fever comes with OS-9 Level One
> Vr. 1.1.0 as its underlying o.s.  Has anyone looked at the possibility
> that the emulator can run 1.1.0 OS-9 Level One but not 2.0 OS-9 Level One?

Trivia Fever was one of the first games that I bought for my CoCo, I love
it.  I don't have an MS-DOS machine to test the emulator on, but next month
I may install it in a floppy so that I can run it in our college's computer
lab!  I believe that trivia fever was eithor 1.0.0 or 1.1.0 OS-9.

Now I want to run Trivia Fever under Level 2 windows!  That would be
killer.  Has anyone made a patch for it yet?

Jim

-*-

84748 8-JAN 10:51  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84734)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ZOGSTER

A lot of the "Level 1" games for the CoCo2 used the unique graphics mode
which was in the CoCo2 but not the CoCo3. I forgot what they called it,
artifacting? Something like that? Anyway, if the game you are referring to
uses thta mode of graphics, you can give up on trying to ever get it
to run right on a CoCo3?

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84795 9-JAN 18:29  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84748)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: COLORSYSTEMS

Wrong Zack! An artifacted game WILL RUN on a CoCo 3... in black and white
though, you won't be able to get color without patching!

-*-

84811 9-JAN 22:43  General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84795)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DSRTFOX

 > Wrong Zack! An artifacted game WILL RUN on a CoCo 3... in black and white
 > though, you won't be able to get color without patching!

I don't think the patch will work for OS9, though.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84841 11-JAN 20:20 General Information
     RE: CoCo II Emulator (Re: Msg 84811)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: COLORSYSTEMS

I don't know of a patch for OS-9 games, that's for sure!

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84530 2-JAN 02:41  General Information

     From: RGT          To: JSHEPLER

      In your news letter in tutorals section of the OS9 sigs database
   you have a one magazine source listed with no address.
      Well here's the address:
                               The "INTERNATIONAL"
                               OS9 UNDERGROUND
                               MAGAZINE
                               4650 Cahuenga Blvd.
                               Ste #7 Toluca Lake
                               California 91602

                          Phone# 1-818-761-4135
                          fax  # 1-818-365-0477
                          BBS  # 1-818-769-1938  n/8/1 2400 bps

   Also another fine quality magazine is:

                                THE WORLD OF 68'MICROS
                                BOX 321 WARNER ROBINS
                                GA. 31099-0321

   RGT

P.S. BOTH ARE FOR OS9 & OSK AND 68'MICROS IS ALSO FOR RS-DOS .

-*-

84538 2-JAN 08:57  General Information
     window colors
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: TOMFANN

Hi again Tom--I just remembered that you might also want to try EASYEDIT here
on the database. You can set the colors in you window descriptors just by using
the menu. It makes it easy. <Phil>

-*-

84897 14-JAN 23:38 General Information
     RE: window colors (Re: Msg 84538)
     From: TOMFANN      To: PHILSCHERER

EASYEDIT definitely sounds good.  I'll check that out too.  Thanks.

..Tom Fann

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84541 2-JAN 10:30  System Modules (6809)
     VDGint
     From: DONALDS      To: ALL

I have tried to get the new VDGINT modules that Alan Dekok did to
work with my 2meg system and everytime the VDG screen crashs. I can use a
VDG screen with the VDG discriptor before I apply his but not with his.
 Has anyone got it to work with there 2meg systems if so how. I use a hd6309c,
scII, power boost, Adaptec/2HD's.


-*-

84548 2-JAN 16:54  Telecom (6809)
     Boca modems
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: ALL

I am considering a high speed modem.  Does anyone have any first hand
experience with Boca 14.4k modems?  Do they work well with the Coco?
What about other brands?  Is there one brand that seems to work better
with cocos?
 Thanks,
 Wayne

-*-

84559 2-JAN 21:34  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84548)
     From: MRGOOD       To: WTHOMPSON

For what it's worth, BTYE had a modem review article several
months ago in which they liked the BOCA modems.

Hugo

-*-

84598 3-JAN 20:35  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84559)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: MRGOOD

Thanks, I'LL try to find that issue.
 Wayne

-*-

84646 4-JAN 23:46  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84548)
     From: BANANAMAN    To: WTHOMPSON

Hi, Wayne.  I've been using a Practical Peripherals 14.4FXMT for about
4 months now and it has given me no problems.  The buffers appear to work
like they're supposed to, since I never get dropped characters.  I've
tried a friends USR Sportster and it dropped characters all the time,
also, I could not hear the speaker ( a busy tone sounds just like a
ring ).  But if I was going to buy a new modem today, I'd look into
those DSP based ones which can d/l new firmware as the protocols become
obsolete.  Don't know if they're currently worth the price, though.

-*-

84752 8-JAN 13:05  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84646)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: BANANAMAN

Andy,
  Thanks for the info.  One question about the new Zmodem.  Have you
noticed if the throughput is better with the latest version?
  Are you going to be at the next meeting?  Hope to see you there.
 Thanks,
 Wayne

-*-

84809 9-JAN 22:08  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84752)
     From: BANANAMAN    To: WTHOMPSON


If I remember right.....I noticed a 50 CPS improvement with the new version.
Not a whole lot, but every bit helps, you know.  I also like the way it leaves
the file header information in the top of Supercomm's download window instead
of scrolling it off like it used to.  I wonder if anyone is gonna make a
6309 version anytime soon.  :)  When is the next meeting?  the 16th?
  --Andy

-*-

84919 15-JAN 15:23 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84809)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: BANANAMAN

The next meeting is Jan. 22nd.  As far as a 6309 version of rz/sz, couldn't
you do the 6309 rma patch and use to to compile them?  I don't know how
extensive the patches to rma are; wether or not it will use the more efficient
instructions or what.
 Wayne

-*-

84921 15-JAN 15:49 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84919)
     From: BANANAMAN    To: WTHOMPSON

Those patches only allow RMA to assemble 6309 instructions.  Unfortunately,
our C compiler won't generate those 6309 instructions, so recompiling won't
make any difference.  If MW's C compiler was constructed properly, you
should only have to patch it to inform it that it has a few more registers,
and which instructions can use those registers.  It may be that way, but
without the source code, we'll never know.

I'll be at that meeting next week.  Is your 6551 in your RS232 socketed?
I'll bring one of those Harris CDP65C51E2 chips that I've got to work.  So
far I only know that it works in the Tandy pak.  It doesn't work in the
converted modem pak that I have, but it's connected at LAP-M V42.BIS
14400/ARQ and transfered at 687 CPS using the new version of RZ.

See you there.

-*-

84931 15-JAN 21:14 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84921)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: BANANAMAN

I guess if someone were familiar with assembly one could play with
the assembly code put out by the C compiler and then run it through the
6309 patched RMA?  I wish I could do that. (but apparantly not enough
to teach myself! :-))

  I'm not sure if the deluxe rs232 pak I am using is socketed but that
is easy to fix if its not.  Is the 687 CPS with the Harris chip better
than the original 6551?
 Wayne

-*-

84941 16-JAN 01:07 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84931)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WTHOMPSON

The harris ACIA chip really only makes a difference when using the coco to SEND
to a SLOWER system... That is because it "fixes" a "bug" with CTS in the
"standard" 6551 ACIA.

The v3.24 rz/sz programs basically have some asm optimized code for CRC calcs,
and also, I finally got buffered writes to the modem port working.
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84950 16-JAN 13:00 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84931)
     From: BANANAMAN    To: WTHOMPSON

I wish I was up to the task of fixing the compiler, too.  :(  The 687 CPS
was the same as the original 6551, but it also registered 1200 CPS on an
XModem-1K download, too.  About the best I've been able to get out of the
new ZModem is 751 CPS.

-*-

84954 16-JAN 14:00 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Boca modems (Re: Msg 84950)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: BANANAMAN (NR)

Are you calling Delphi at 9600?
 Wayne

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84556 2-JAN 19:15  General Information
     IFFshow
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: ALL

I added the 68340 accelerator to my MM/1 and now I am getting a few programs
that give me a 000:108 error. (priviledged instruction) What does this really
mean, I guess that it has a 68070 unique instruction to it?  I had this with
STARS but since I had th
e source avail. I just recompiled and all is well now.

I would like to get IFFshow working again!  Who wrote this?  Can I get the
source, or could someone tell me how to get it to work with the 68340.

Thanks for all replies!
-Bruce Gerst-<Budgetware>-


-*-

84565 2-JAN 23:02  General Information
     RE: IFFshow (Re: Msg 84556)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: BRUCEGERST

I believe it was written by Mike Haaland. Here on Delphi as MIKEHAALAND.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84609 3-JAN 22:55  General Information
     RE: IFFshow (Re: Msg 84556)
     From: KSCALES      To: BRUCEGERST

 > I added the 68340 accelerator to my MM/1 and now I am getting a few
 > programs that give me a 000:108 error. (priviledged instruction) What does
 > this really mean, I guess that it has a 68070 unique instruction to it?

Hi, Bruce -

Another program that will give you problems is 'ispell'.

The workaround for 'ispell' is to use dEd to look for the string 'windio',
change it to some other string that will not likely ever be the name of a
module in memory (say, 'wzzzzo'), and re-verify it.  This will disable the
K-Windows-specific feature of automatically resizing to the current
window size.  (It will use the standard values from the Termcap entry.)

The problem is that if 'ispell' determines that it is running under K-Windows,
it uses a single call from the 'cgfx.l' library (_gs_scsz).  Unfortunately,
it was compiled with an early release of the library.  Recompiling with a
more recent version of 'cgfx.l' would probably fix this program too, just
like it did for 'stars'.

Regards... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84621 4-JAN 04:21  General Information
     RE: IFFshow (Re: Msg 84609)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: KSCALES

Ken,

 > The problem is that if 'ispell' determines that it is running under
 > K-Windows, it uses a single call from the 'cgfx.l' library (_gs_scsz).
 > Unfortunately, it was compiled with an early release of the library.
 > Recompiling with a more recent version of 'cgfx.l' would probably fix this
 > program too, just like it did for 'stars'.

Thanks for posting this info... I was curious about the technical reason
behind the error.



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84656 5-JAN 07:34  General Information
     RE: IFFshow (Re: Msg 84556)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: BRUCEGERST

 > I added the 68340 accelerator to my MM/1 and now I am getting a few
 > programs that give me a 000:108 error. (priviledged instruction) What does
 > this really mean, I guess that it has a 68070 unique instruction to it?  I
 > had this with STARS but since I had th
 > e source avail. I just recompiled and all is well now.

The early versions of some MM/1 software used a system call that was not
compatible with the 68020.  I notified Mike of this and his later cgfx.l
files included this fix, which is probably why recompiling fixed your
problem.

The problem was in the _osk() system call.

                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

84673 5-JAN 21:22  General Information
     RE: IFFshow (Re: Msg 84656)
     From: KSCALES      To: MARKGRIFFITH

Hi, Mark -

 > The early versions of some MM/1 software used a system call that was not
 > compatible with the 68020.  I notified Mike of this and his later cgfx.l
 > files included this fix, which is probably why recompiling fixed your
 > problem.
 >
 > The problem was in the _osk() system call.

Just a clarification:  the problem was in the _osk() system call, which
is also referenced by about a quarter of the other modules in the library.
(Just in case folks wonder why the problem is occurring in programs that
didn't use that call explicitly.)

The fixed version of the library has been out for a long time now.
(Ispell was done back in May/92!  Sheesh, has it been that long already?)

Cheers... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84681 5-JAN 23:50  General Information
     RE: IFFshow (Re: Msg 84673)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: KSCALES

Ken,

 > The fixed version of the library has been out for a long time now.
 > (Ispell was done back in May/92!  Sheesh, has it been that long already?)

Time flies when your having fun?  :)


  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84562 2-JAN 22:03  General Information
     Coco 2 Emulator
     From: JES68K       To: JMURPHY

John,
    Could we use the Forum for messages ...... tried the conference mode
one time and hated it.

     === Jesse ===

-*-

84570 2-JAN 23:54  General Information
     RE: Coco 2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84562)
     From: JMURPHY      To: JES68K

Jesse,
Heck, yeah. Forum it is. Conference can be kind of evil...

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84576 3-JAN 00:52  OSK Applications
      KZIN ??
     From: BUDDCAR      To: WESGALE (NR)

Hi Wes.  HAs you board gone down for good?  Called after a long absence
and got your
 Force.  Glad to see that still alive since
it (NITROS9) runs real fine on my coco although that machine is playing
second fiddle.  Happy New Year.
Bob P.

-*-

84580 3-JAN 01:28  New Uploads
     DB descr change
     From: JMURPHY      To: MITHELEN

It's me again. Since you are the assistant DB manager, yeah, I guess modify
the description for the emulator to delete the reference to OS9 or modify it
to specify Trivia Fever or something... It appears I jumped the gun, and was
overly vague when I wrote the description.

No need to reply to THIS message, let's keep the comments regarding the
emulator in an unbroken thread.

Thanks,
John Murphy

-*-

84581 3-JAN 02:29  General Information
     RE: rs-232 cabling (Re: Msg 84161)
     From: DIETER       To: MIKE_GUZZI

 > not always true, before i got nitros9 i was able to do 4800 baud
 > with the new clock driver and sacia, without hardware handshaking.
 > when i got the 6309 nitros9 9600 baud is reliable.
 >
 > Mike
 >

Right!  I also got the 63C09 chip and NitrOS9, and have No problem using 9600
baud...

                       ---Dieter---

              **** Edited with KVed and ****
       *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 ***

-*-

84582 3-JAN 02:29  General Information
     RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84252)
     From: DIETER       To: MARKGRIFFITH

 > That's the same one I have.
 >
 >                   /************* /\/\ark ************/

Thanks Mark!

Have a Happy New Year, and may it be a prosperouse one!


                       ---Dieter---

              **** Edited with KVed and ****
       *** Uploaded with InfoXpress Version 1.0.1 ***

-*-

84588 3-JAN 17:21  OSK Applications
     RE: Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3) (Re: Msg 84401)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: CBJ

well, maybe, I assumed that since the drivers for the coco gfx were for the
GIME, that the chip set in the VGA card would need to be talked to differently
on other systems (PC?) the "old" drivers were probably for the same chip
just didnt support higher resolution.. maybe. I dunno.. I would like to
see it done though!! :)

-*-

84627 4-JAN 09:56  OSK Applications
     RE: Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3) (Re: Msg 84588)
     From: CBJ          To: ILLUSIONIST

Oh, no doubt that you would need new drivers but they could easily emulate
the GIME.  The GIME is a rather unique chip but not all that customized as
far as its graphics capabilities.  The VGA card could easily emulate it but
the graphics screens may be smaller to the screen.  Of course a VGA card is
also going to require a vga capable monitor.  This will not be a cheap type
of upgrade for a cocoist.  I doubt that it will ever get "finished".  Now I
hope that somebody will prove me wrong.
 Carl

-*-

84631 4-JAN 14:02  OSK Applications
     RE: Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3) (Re: Msg 84627)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: CBJ

While you are right, it wont be a cheap upgrade for a cocoist, it would
be a step foward so to speak, it would get them an inch or 2 closer to
OSk, with the final upgrade "piece" being the OSk CPU, they could use
the VGA monitor with the DELMAR systems, and the Kix's, a simple switch
box could be bought from any general item PC vendor to switch the monitor
between the systems..if a PUPPO keyboard was used on the coco that could
be switched to/from the OSk machine too...and of course, VGA monitors
are coming down in price, in favor of SVGA, and soon XVGA...

so maybe now would be the time to do get this done.....

I would buy it..lesse that would give me a 2meg (soon)/ VGA coco

geez..that would really start to bridge the gap to my other systems.. :)
also, 1 thing to consider is, if the type of VGA card is used that supports
an IBM keyboard, well then.. the coco keyboard, and monitor could also
be used by another person, the "regular" coco keyboard/monitor would be
using the stock (or PD patched) modules, and a whole "new" windowing system
could be included for the VGA monitor, with say, /vw's (vga windows?)

that would definatly make the coco a pretty slick system...
                                                              -* Mike

-*-

84659 5-JAN 11:30  OSK Applications
     RE: Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3) (Re: Msg 84631)
     From: CBJ          To: ILLUSIONIST

I too would buy the VGA for a CoCo IF it was reasonable in price.  Hm, that is
a real stickler though.  What would be reasonable?  That could easily be $200
as far as I could see.  Well, we can always hope.
 Carl

-*-

84667 5-JAN 19:09  OSK Applications
     RE: Sound Chip - Yamaha (OPL3) (Re: Msg 84659)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: CBJ

I haven't seen a VGA card that supports an IBM keyboard as well, except for the
FHL/KiX video cards, I've NEVER seen a keyboard connector on ANY standard type
video card!


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84592 3-JAN 18:29  General Information
     controller
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: ALL

Does any body here know where I can get a hold of a WD-1002 SHD controller?
<Phil>

-*-

84596 3-JAN 19:52  General Information
     COCO EMULATOR
     From: BOISY        To: ALL

Has anyone successfully loaded Disk BASIC onto the emulator?  (PC emulator
that is).  I've tried and get nothing but a flat green screen when I load
in the binary file using <F3>.

The docs provide a format in which to put the raw 8192 byte file in, which I
did, without success.

-*-

84599 3-JAN 21:16  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84596)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: BOISY

You must have grabbed your code form a CoCo3 instead of a CoCo 1 or 2

I used a CoCo 1 with fd-501 controller.


-*-

84600 3-JAN 21:17  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84599)
     From: BOISY        To: BRUCEGERST

The DISK BASIC ROM will work irrespective of whether it's a CoCo 2 or
CoCo 3.  Could you give me more detail as to how you got the Disk BASIC
ROM file to the PC and how it was loaded?

-*-

84601 3-JAN 21:21  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84600)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: BOISY

I agree to a point, actually coco 3 disk is version 2.x though.
Try coco 2 mode if u have a 3, else try it with a coco 2 or CoCo 1
the program loads ALL ROM so since the three loads Super Ext Basic, you will at
LEAST have to try the coco 2 mode to get DISK BASIC 1.x

-Bruce-


-*-

84605 3-JAN 21:40  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84601)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: BOISY

The CoCo 3 ROM cannot be copied to disk like the CoCo 1 and 2 can, so I'd think
the ROMs won't work on the emulator either. I'm not clear as to why, but this
is what Tony D. says in the instructions for his EPROM burner, that the PROM
has to be physically
removed and copies... something about the patches the CoCo 3 adds, I think.
So the RAM image IS NOT an exact image of the CoCo 2 type ROMs.

-*-

84629 4-JAN 10:14  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84605)
     From: CBJ          To: DSRTFOX

Why do you say that the ROM can not be copied to disk?  The CoCo 3 ROM can be
copied.  I've seen it done.  What Tony was talking about was something that
is entirely different than just a straight copy of the ROM.  After all, how
do you think RSB (OS9) works?  The problem here is that the emulator will not
work with the code from a CoCo3.  It is a CoCo2 emulator.

  Carl

-*-

84647 4-JAN 23:58  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84629)
     From: ROYBUR       To: CBJ

 but copying the coco3 rom is a bit more involved than just a simple SAVE
 to disk, yes? mainly 'cause both the coco2 rom data and the mware patch
 data plus the code to perform the moves/overlays/additions are all in the
 same chip? would one do this via a byte-by-byte (or word-by-word) extraction
 from the rom? i'm curious and thinking i might give it a shot as a "fun"
 project. 8*)..........roy

-*-

84661 5-JAN 11:45  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84647)
     From: CBJ          To: ROYBUR

There may even be
instructions here on Delphi in the CoCo databases.  You might check there
first.
 Carl

-*-

84668 5-JAN 19:14  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84661)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: CBJ

I talked to Tony about this once, and he said that the only way to extract and
EXACT copy of the CoCoII ROMs from a CoCo III was to remove the ROM and copy it
with a burner. Something about the CoCoIII patches being done on boot-up, so
the RAM image is NOT
 CoCo II compatible, and you can't get totally rid of the patches without
crashing the system to copy the ROMs in any other way. Maybe you can direct
this to Tony and see what he thinks.... I could have misunderstood something!

-*-

84683 5-JAN 23:50  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84668)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: DSRTFOX

 > I talked to Tony about this once, and he said that the only way to extract
 > and EXACT copy of the CoCoII ROMs from a CoCo III was to remove the ROM
 > and copy it
 > with a burner. Something about the CoCoIII patches being done on boot-up,

I still don't see why you can't just do POKE 65502,0 and then copy the
ROM image, as that should place the CoCo3 in ROM mode, or maybe there is
no such mode on the 3... how about EXEC &HEE01 (or whatever that exec
address was to run CoCo2 ROM carts and ML programs on the CoCo3)?

Just throwing out ideas...



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84700 6-JAN 21:33  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84683)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JOELHEGBERG

I thought the same thing, but apparently some of the patched code is interlaced
in the ROM.... I'm not sure, but it WON'T work... I tried it once!!

-*-

84707 6-JAN 23:12  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84700)
     From: JES68K       To: DSRTFOX

Well, I tried my best today to make the Emulator work for me .... I had
added my old Coco-1 to the junkbox several years ago and at first I tried
to use the old roms but could only find a Color Basic 1.0 and Disk Basic 1.1
and after building an adaptor socket for my EPROM Programmer, I got binary
copies of those two, but still needed the Extended Color Basic.

I ended up grabbing the CoCo-3 ROM and using it ..... but it didn't work
so I dug up my Unravel Series books and found the last two pages of the
Extended Color Basic Unraveled book showed all the differences between
the Color Basic 1.2/Extended Basic 1.1 ROMs and the corresponding area
in the Extended Color Basic 2.0 Rom in the CoCo-3.

Here's the catch though .... the opcodes that are shown are incomplete
for each of the differences listed (means you have to figure out each
instruction completely) and cannot rely on what is printed for actual
byte changes.  So the next step is looking up each of the differences
in terms of the actual opcode changes..... oh rats!

I'll get this thing going yet!

      === Jesse ===

-*-

84725 7-JAN 19:34  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84661)
     From: ROYBUR       To: CBJ

 thanx for the suggestion, carl. but y'see, figuring out the "how" was what i
 meant might be interesting. still, i'm not averse to learning from others!
 <g>.............roy

-*-

84736 8-JAN 01:59  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84668)
     From: ROYBUR       To: DSRTFOX

 i was thinking maybe you do it in coco3 mode, maybe transfer the data to an
 unused area of ram with a m/l prog, then return to basic (possibly via a
 warm start but maybe just rts if everything gets returned to its previous
 status) and then use lpeek to get the data a bit at a time. it'd be slow and
 inelegant, but might work? i dunno but i may have to give it a whirl soon.
 hey, the weather here is conducive to indoor activities for us ol' coots! <g>
 ...................roy

-*-

84793 9-JAN 18:05  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84707)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JES68K

Won't the emulator at least run without the Extended BASIC ROM? I realize that
would severly limit what would run on it, but it should RUN! and you can boot
OS-9 without Ext. BASIC also. Look in your Dynacalc or other OS-9 Level I
software and there should
 be a boot program for CoCos without the "DOS" command...

-*-

84806 9-JAN 21:41  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84793)
     From: JES68K       To: DSRTFOX

I don't know if the Emulator would run or not ..... author states to use
at least Color Basic 1.1 and also use Extended Color Basic 1.1 ....
something to try I guess.

      === Jesse ===

-*-

84839 11-JAN 20:19 General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84806)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JES68K

It is possible that the author designed the emulator in such a way that it
won't work without the exact ROMs he used, but more likely he stated to use
those becasue those are what he used, and therefore the only ones he could
GUARANTEE to work. Now if it c
an be modified to emulate the CoCo3 (512K/RGB, of course)....

-*-

84853 12-JAN 19:22 General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84839)
     From: JES68K       To: DSRTFOX

It is unique that the size of code/data segments on the ibm clone systems
is identical to the address range of most of the 8 bit microprocessors,
and probably also is a limitation on what can conveniently be emulated.
CoCo-3 might be just TOO hard to emulate.

      === Jesse ===

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84597 3-JAN 20:14  General Information
     CDI Player info.
     From: FHOGG        To: ALL

To all CDI owners.


While perusing the Technical Service Manual for the CDI player I
came across some things you might like to play with.

The Service Shell. Simply connect a wire between RXD and TXD on
port 1 and start up your player and you will be in a mode for
testing the player. The menu that comes up on the screen should
be all you need to play with this mode. The manual has 6 pages
dealing with all the options so I won't list them here. I'm not
'that' keen on typing.

A more interesting test would be to connect a VT100 compatible
terminal to Port 2.

     1. Switch the player off.
     2. Connect the terminal to Port 2 of the CDI910 player.
     3. While pressing the SPACE bar of the terminal apply power
        to the player.
     4. The terminal should now show the title of the terminal
        Low Level test.
     5. The VT100 terminal test is now ready to proceed.

Port 2 is the one on the back while Port 1 is the one on the
front. The ports are 8 pin mini-DIN connectors.

     Pin  Signal    I/O
     1    NC
     2    RXD       I
     3    TXD       O
     4    DTR       O
     5    GND
     6    CTS       I
     7    RTS       O
     8    +5V

The layout,looking into the connector as shown in the manual is:

           Notch
             v

         8   7   6
         5   4   3
           2   1


9600 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, and no parity.

8 Pin Mini-DIN connectors are also used by Macs serial ports and
other systems. I don't know if the pinout matches but that would
be a source for the connector. If you wire a blank connector the
only way I found to do it was to first remove the pins from the
plastic body of the connector, solder (very neatly) and then
reinstall in the plastic body.

I don't have a player that I can try this with but I can't help
but wonder if MW put in some secret key sequence that would
enable further use of the player. Maybe they did... maybe they
didn't.

Have Fun and let us know what you find.

Frank


PS The manual also has the pinout for the 100 pin expansion
connector. When I get bored I may type this in and upload it.



-*-

84608 3-JAN 22:34  General Information
     RE: CDI Player info. (Re: Msg 84597)
     From: MRGOOD       To: FHOGG

I got myself a CDI player last week.  Unfortunately, it's
already in the stereo cabinet and all hooked up.  It really
is a neat system!

Hugo

-*-

84640 4-JAN 23:15  General Information
     RE: CDI Player info. (Re: Msg 84597)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: FHOGG

> While perusing the Technical Service Manual for the CDI player I
> came across some things you might like to play with.

 Thanks Frank!  I have the `910' player...  What phone number did
you call to order the manual, and what did it cost ?

> Have Fun and let us know what you find.

 That will take awhile.. the `other half' is still hot about my `looking'
inside the full motion board.. <g>.  Direct all comments/flames to /nul..

-
   John Baer
   johnbaer@delphi.com
   jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us

   *** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***

-*-

84644 4-JAN 23:36  General Information
     RE: CDI Player info. (Re: Msg 84640)
     From: FHOGG        To: JOHNBAER

"What phone number did
you call to order the manual, and what did it cost ?

Hmmm as I look in the manual I find.... no phone number. I got this over
a year ago. However the manual number is 5467 System CDI910 CDI205 The
205 is the Memorex system. Its from Phillips Tech Service Company
Tech Publications Dept
401 E Old Andrew Johnson Hwy
Jefferson City TN 37760

Information should get you a phone number. It may even be a 800 number. Try
calling the CDI 800 number. I 'think' that is what I called. The lady on
the phone gave me some other numbers to try... as I recall.

Let us know what you find. Oh yes the cost. I think it was about $25.

Frank

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84603 3-JAN 21:30  General Information
     Coco-2 Emulator
     From: JES68K       To: ALL

While I was doing a file capture (text scrolling off the screen) someone
"beeped" me a message which seemed to ask " did I get Basic to run on the
Emulator or something like that".
   Although this is a interesting project I indeed to follow up on.... I am
in the midst of trying to get a 40Mhz 68030 system to run which I obtained
"free" from work ..... scrapped out motherboard ..... been working on it all
day.
   So, no I have not run anything on the Emulator as yet .... but will in the
near future just to see what will run.
         === Jesse ===

-*-

84607 3-JAN 21:58  Programmers Den
     CD rom
     From: HAWKSOFT     To: MARKGRIFFITH

Hi Mark!

        As I write this, "The Phantom of the Opera" echos from my CDrom
drive!!!! I have patched scsi_mm1d to run the 33c93 in the advanced mode.
Wasn't as hard as I thought. So now we can play AUDIO CD's on our MM/1's!!
Next order is to write a full fledged program to play 'em. ( Unless you want
to take a crack at it :-> ) So when I receive my copy of IX (you did get
my order?), I'll send you a copy of scsi_mm1d.cd.  Yippeeeeee!!! Music!!!

:-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> Chris <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-:


-*-

84685 6-JAN 00:01  Programmers Den
     RE: CD rom (Re: Msg 84607)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: HAWKSOFT

Way to go Chris!  I just got my drivers from Mark today.  Keep us (me) posted
on any more advances with CD-ROM use!


-*-

84699 6-JAN 20:56  Programmers Den
     RE: CD rom (Re: Msg 84685)
     From: HAWKSOFT     To: BRUCEGERST

Hey Bruce!

 If you are interested, I can send you the programs to read CD-I disks in
your CD-Rom reader. The programs are mine, but, require Carl's drivers that
you already have. Mark may be able to send the patched (or Carls next) version
of scsi_mm1d to previous purchasers of the drivers.

:-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> Chris <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-:

-*-

84802 9-JAN 19:48  Programmers Den
     RE: CD rom (Re: Msg 84699)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: HAWKSOFT

I'd be VERY interested in any CD-I/CD-ROM programs!!! send 'em to me!!


-*-

84808 9-JAN 21:51  Programmers Den
     RE: CD rom (Re: Msg 84802)
     From: HAWKSOFT     To: BRUCEGERST

Hi Bruce!

 Let me check with Mark G. and see if he wants to handle distribution of the
CD-I utilities. He is in a better position to know who already has what.
Other-wise I'll E-mail 'em as soon as I get IX going.

:-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> Chris <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-:

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84614 4-JAN 00:30  General Information
     termcap
     From: ROYBUR       To: ALL

 hi folks. i come a-beggin'...does anybody have a termcap entry for an old
 ADDS VP/60 terminal, or know where i can find such a termcap. and/or any
 other info on this terminal; for example, i've found that shift-home brings
 up a SETUP bar at the bottom of the screen that seemingly allows editing on
 a bit-by-bit basis four bytes. i've discovered by trial and error what some
 of these bits seem to control/do, but some aren't real obvious, y'know?
 as you can see, i don't have any docs but then, the thing was a freebie so i
 sure can't complain. mainly, i'd like to use umacs and sterm (for now, at any
 rate) on my System IV. ANY info will be appreciated! 8*).........roy

-*-

84625 4-JAN 06:02  General Information
     RE: CRTs (Re: Msg 82476)
     From: MARTYGOODMAN To: JES68K

Jesse,

   I'd be curious about your feedback on the following:

  I'd been told that most modern TV's and monitors are designed
so as to dissipate the anode voltage relatively quickly...
within a few seconds or so after turning off the TV.

   I certainly would second the very healthy respect you suggext
be shown to anode voltages, but wonder if in fact what I've
heard about more recent designs having some sort of built in
"bleeder" to trickle out the nasty voltage when the power is off
is true.

   ---marty

-*-

84636 4-JAN 20:56  General Information
     RE: CRTs (Re: Msg 84625)
     From: JES68K       To: MARTYGOODMAN

Marty,

     My experience is based on the designs of some of the most expensive
monitors built and sold today (I saw a trade journal article that listed
a summary of high resolution monitors ... my company's monitor at that
time was the most expensive listed) which might not fit the average
mass marketed device.  However, our monitors DO NOT include any such
"bleeder" device other than a very high resistance which the over-voltage
circuitry uses to sense a fault condition and the input regulator uses
for regulating the high voltage output.
    Such a bleeder device would be considered an extra load .... most
designs stay clear of any devices which cause extra power to be needed
during normal operation.  Design Engineers spend more time making their
circuitry as efficient as possible ... adding a device which consumes
more power would be counter-productive.  But maybe the "bleeder" is
active only at power-down conditions.  Certainly it would add more cost
which is also counter-productive.  A paper label is cheaper: "NO user
serviceable components are contained within ... refer any failure of this
device to an authorized service facility."
    Sorry, I do not have a TV service background .... a bleeder may indeed
be used but I have my doubts.

       === Jesse ===

-*-

84765 8-JAN 23:13  General Information
     RE: CRTs (Re: Msg 84636)
     From: MARTYGOODMAN To: JES68K

Heee!  I like your final comment of how a paper label is cheaper
than expensive circuitry.   Of course, if one could factor in
the SOCIAL cost of litigation and medical care for those injured...

In theory, one could design some circuit that was... or acted like...
a relay that cuts in to bleed power off the anode circuit whenever
the monitor is powered down.  Pity, for those who have been zapped,
that apparantly that is just not done.

   ---marty

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84639 4-JAN 22:38  OSK Applications
     cs.wisc.edu
     From: DAVGEORGE    To: ALL

I have noticed mention about a large OS-9 archive site at cs.wisc.edu
Does anyone know how I can access them?
I have tried to anonymous FTP to them, but it says anonymous not accepted
or something like that.  Does anyone know if they have anonymous FTP or

any other way I can get to them?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
David George

-*-

84651 5-JAN 02:13  OSK Applications
     RE: cs.wisc.edu (Re: Msg 84639)
     From: MITHELEN     To: DAVGEORGE

the full site name is "cabrales.cs.wisc.edu". You Can also find this archive
mirrored at "wuarchive.wustl.edu".
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84675 5-JAN 22:27  OSK Applications
     RE: cs.wisc.edu (Re: Msg 84651)
     From: DAVGEORGE    To: MITHELEN

Thanks for the info.  I will give it a try.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84653 5-JAN 04:29  General Information
     RIBBS
     From: DGANTZ       To: ALL

A friend and I are having a problem with RiBBS V2.10 which neither of us
can solve and one that I saw when first upgrading from V2.02 to 2.10.

He is running a Nitro'ed 6309 system with Avatex 2400e and trying to
invert his cable.  I am running a non-Nitro'ed, non-PowerBoosted 6309 system.
I have both an Avatex 2400 and LineLink 144e 14.4K fax/modem.

While the problem is more in depth that what I can tell you tonight, I'll share
my experiences with the problem when first upgrading to RiBBS V2.10 and what
happened to solve it.

When I first upgraded to V2.10 I was running with ACIADRV.CNV (for the inverted
cable) and its T2.  When I polled out to (only tried local polling) 1:346/9 I
would get a 7 (or BUSY in word mode) before the modem even came off hook.
Polling 1:346/5 would result in a 0, a code not even listed in my manual.
Polling 1:346/23 would go off with out a hitch.  I then switched to SACIA and
its T2 and despite and XMODE /t2 XTP=45 worked like a charm and solved the
problem till I upgraded to my LineLink 144e and it all came back.

My friend with the Nitro'ed system worked fine till he decided to try out
the inverted cable.  He has always run SACIA with Nitro.  Any ideas?

Now that I think about it, perhaps its a problem with the way RiBBS 2.10
deals with the inverted cable and perhaps even some modems.  The only
common thing I can identify myself is the inverted cable.

HELP!
          Thanx, Dave

-*-

84671 5-JAN 20:07  General Information
     COCO EMULATOR
     From: JES68K       To: ALL

Does any have the pinout for the CoCo-1 or CoCo-2 ROMs ..... I added my
old CoCo-1 to the junkbox several years ago .. saved the ROMs but do not
have a pinout so I can build a proper adapter to fit my EPROM Programmer
which only recognizes the 27xxx series of EPROMs.  I have done this several
times before for other types of ROMs (have the adapter built except for
the pins which need to be modified)?

       === Jesse ===

-*-

84701 6-JAN 21:35  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84671)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JES68K

There is a couple charts with ROM pinouts in the CoCo SIG hardware section. I
think the Motorola ROM is in their with the others. Marty uploaded the cahrts
some time ago.

-*-

84706 6-JAN 22:57  General Information
     RE: COCO EMULATOR (Re: Msg 84701)
     From: JES68K       To: DSRTFOX

Thanks for the info.  Actually, I re-engineered the needed pinouts from
my J&M controller (the 2 switchable ROM version).
      === Jesse ===

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84677 5-JAN 23:17  General Information
     HD info?
     From: LMCCLURE     To: ALL

Does anyone have the parameters for a Mitsubishi MR535-U00 hard drive?


-*-

84686 6-JAN 00:10  General Information
     RE: HD info? (Re: Msg 84677)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: LMCCLURE

hmm! MR535 IS A 42MEG 5 Heads 977cyls 17 trks land/zone auto wpc=300/rwc/300
This Do!<grin> the only type I have is MR535...R...S    no -U00..Ok!
r is RLL....
Dennis

-*-

84764 8-JAN 22:43  General Information
     RE: HD info? (Re: Msg 84686)
     From: LMCCLURE     To: COCOKIWI

Thanks for the HD info. However, the drive I have has either been
formatted as RLL, or *is* RLL, as it has around 60megs capacity under
the current format. Also the controller is an OMTI 3527A, which I believe
is the RLL version.

According to some handwritten numbers I found in the margin of the
host adapter manual, evidently the specs (other than capacity) are the
same.

The reason I needed the parameters is in the event I decide to use the
drive on another machine, such as my CoCo3 or Atari 8-bit, and need to
reformat.

Thanks!


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84689 6-JAN 03:41  Applications (6809)

     From: PRIMES       To: ALL

to any multi vue users, does any one know why i would get an error #221 when i
elect the os9 profilin /d1      from my multivue foder(sp)folders       window? 
i.e. mv in
/d0 wont  load profile in /d1 ?

-*-

84691 6-JAN 04:17  General Information
     I need hard drive
     From: TELENUT      To: ALL


    I am looking for a SCSI HD for my MM/1. 80 MEGs or less. Must fit in the
5 and a quarter drive bay of my MM/1. Oh yea. It has to work too. :) I don't
mind if it's gently used though. I would be using the 80 Megger I allready
ordered 2 years ago but Paul Ward has left the address where I used to
contact him and it looks like my hard drive is another year away. If anyone
knows where Paul Ward is please let me know. All I want is my hard drive or
what it was worth when I ordered it.

    I don't know if it was appropriate to post this here but I am desperate.
It is very hard to develop software when you have to keep everything on
floppies.


    Dave


-*-

84693 6-JAN 18:41  General Information
     WD1002 controllers
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: ALL

In case anyone is in need of WD1002 controllers there's a place in California
that has em. (805) 257 6804. <Phil>

-*-

84720 7-JAN 03:53  General Information
     RE: WD1002 controllers (Re: Msg 84693)
     From: DGANTZ       To: PHILSCHERER

Thanx Phil.  I know of a couple of folks that will eventually need them.
Now do you know where I can get a couple of B&B interfaces to go with them?
B&B has refused to call me back on that topic after I called and left
messages three times.  I finally found one elsewhere.
                  Dave

-*-

84724 7-JAN 18:27  General Information
     RE: WD1002 controllers (Re: Msg 84720)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: DGANTZ

Hi Dave-- I dont know where to get the B&B. I use Disto SCII with the HD
interface. <Phil>

-*-

84737 8-JAN 02:41  General Information
     RE: WD1002 controllers (Re: Msg 84724)
     From: DGANTZ       To: PHILSCHERER

Thanx.  I was just asking for someone else.  Thought that maybe someone would
see the message and know.
Appreciate your response tho.
            Dave


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84698 6-JAN 19:58  Users Group
     OS-9 Demonstration
     From: THETAURUS    To: PAGAN

        Hi Stephen. I don't know if you have been reading  the thread
   between Ed Gresic and I, but here is the scoop. In the somewhat near
   future<perhaps a couple months> I will be organizing a demonstration
   of OS-9000 and maybe even a System V will be there<and it might bring
   Ed with it :-) >. This will be a demonstration to a local IBM Users
   Group, which is a branch of the Boston Computer Society. Ed reminded
   me that you were the one who organized a similar demo at the San Diego
   Show. Is there any insight you can offer about pulling off such an
   event? What was the mentality of the IBM users you dealt with and what
   interested them most? How was the reaction from them? I think I
   remember there is a document file describing this show in the DB
   somewhere, can you remember where it is<I'll try to remember to scan
   the DB's after posting this>? Any comments and advice will be welcome
   :-)
        >Chris<

-*-

84739 8-JAN 05:00  Users Group
     RE: OS-9 Demonstration (Re: Msg 84698)
     From: PAGAN        To: THETAURUS

 Chris,

 The demo at San Diego was actually organized by the remarkable folks of the
 San Diego OS9 User Group.  All I contributed was some time, expertise and
 transportation for a couple of computer systems from L.A. to San Diego and
 back again.  Ed Gresick loaned us a System V.

 I'm not sure I'm a good person to ask what interests an IBM user.  I've used
 MS-DOS and Macs and, frankly, find very little stimulating about either.  In
 fact, until discovering level II on the COCO, I had just about given up hope
 of finding a computer I wanted to use at home.  Don't meausre all computer
 users by me though - I doubt that I'm typical.

 I'll be happy to help you.  I've just returned from a bought with he flu so
 it'll take me a few days to commit my thoughts to disk.  When I do I'll send
 them to you in E-Mail.

 The report I posted is in the General Information database as the Report on
 the San Diego Show or some such.  Search under my username (PAGAN) and
 you'll find it.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

84779 9-JAN 07:34  Users Group
     RE: OS-9 Demonstration (Re: Msg 84698)
     From: CBJ          To: THETAURUS

Chris,
     You asked what will interest IBM users.  Off the top of my head these are
my best guesses:
     1.  Some sort of windowing graphical interface like G-Windows.
     2.  Applications running...these must be similar to the apps available for
         the IBM.
     3.  Games!  Solitaire, the Tile game, wheel of Fortune, Golf, etc.
     4.  Expansion devices like sound blaster, Joysticks & Flight Yokes,
         scanners, Laser Printers.
     5.  No need to do more than type install to install a program and have it
         work.
     6.  No need to do more than type win to get to the windowing program and
         then be able to park their brains.
    Until then very few will be interested enough to take the time to actually
learn anything about a real OS.  I don't mean to be disparaging, just realistic
about the technical skills of most MS-Dog users.  They don't want to learn how
an OS works.  They just want it to do what they want when they want.  They are
used to being pampered.  In their view going to OS-9000 would be like buying a
Ford model T.  To run a model T every day you needed to either hire a mechanic
to ride with you or you needed to know how to fix it yourself.  OS-9000 is in
the same position.  It is great, BUT it isn't as easy as MS-Dog.  In the (near)
future it may be even better than MS-Dog and windows but right now it can't be
viewed that way by people who never want to see a command line!
 Carl

-*-

84819 10-JAN 19:36 Users Group
     RE: OS-9 Demonstration (Re: Msg 84739)
     From: THETAURUS    To: PAGAN

        >>I doubt that I'm typical

        That's when of the cool things about being a Coco owner...We
   probably make up a pretty good portion of non-typical users :-)
        >>I've just returned from a bought with the flu so...

        Ouch. Yeah I'm just getting over a bad cold, and came very close
   to the flu myself. Everyone here is coming down with it! I guess I'm
   one of the few<knock on wood, VERY LOUD> lucky ones<G>.
        >> When I do I'll send them to you in E-Mail.
        Great, I'm looking forward to it. Take your time tho. First
   meeting isn't untill the 18th I believe anyway, and I'd like to attend
   two of them to get used to it. IF this ends up being a 5 person group,
   I'm going to flip! But it does sound like a pretty good sized group.
   I'll have to wait and see.
        >>Search under my username (PAGAN) and you'll find it.
        Thanks, I tried it right after posting that message asking about
   it, and found it, but had a problem with it at first. I finally got
   it, just have to unarchive it first :-)
        Thanks again!
        >Chris<

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84712 7-JAN 00:21  General Information
     RE: (Re: Msg 84458)
     From: ZOGSTER      To: RGT

>      From: RGT          To: ANIMAJIK (NR)
>
>  DEAR ANIMAJIK,
>                       I WAS JUST WONDERIN WHERE TOLUCA LAKE IS.
>                       AND IF IT IS ANY WHERE CLOSE TO RHONERT PARK OR
>                       SANTA ROSA.IN CALIFORNIA.

The Animajik account is no longer used, this account (Zogster) is
Alan's current account.  Several of us OS-9 Underground staff use
this account.  Anyway, as far as I know Toluca Lake is near Hollywood.
My phone bill states that Alan's phone number is in W. Hollywood.

Hope that helps.

Jim

-*-

84713 7-JAN 00:32  OSK Applications
     mm/1a 68340 serial ports
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: ALL

I just got my 68340 up and running yesterday, and spent tonight playing with
the serial ports. Has anyone successfully hooked up /t5 yet? And if so, could
you give me the pin-out?


     Randy

-*-

84726 7-JAN 19:50  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84713)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: RANDYKWILSON

I'm using mine right now with an X10 Controller. The pinout is apparently
the same as /t3 and /t4 on the IO board, as I am using a standard Serial
Paddle and a ribbon cable. Pin 1 is indicated on the board.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84727 7-JAN 21:32  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84726)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: COLORSYSTEMS

This has me a bit concerned. The 340 manual also states that you are to use
a standard paddle and cable with it. But... the paddles and /t3-4 are 8 pin
dip headers; the 340 board has a 10 pin dip. First off, none of my eight
pin dip plugs will fit clearing the extra row of pins, and second, the
difference makes me wonder what the pin out is and what the two extra pins
are for. I took a stab at Kevin's email addr, from memory, and
asked him for details. It didn't bounce, but no answer either. Gawd, I
love internet (did he receive it?). :>

   Randy

-*-

84728 7-JAN 21:37  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84727)
     From: NIMITZ       To: RANDYKWILSON

Randy, the 10 pin dip's are there because none of us can find a source anymore
for 8  pin connectors.  All my boards are shipped with 10 pin paddles and the
first 2 pins do nothing.

            OH - the cable is straight through pins 3-10 is the way I do it.
with 10 pin header connectors.


-*-

84729 7-JAN 22:01  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84728)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: NIMITZ

So pin 3 on the 340 goes to pin 1 on the paddle (old style)? I know what you
mean about getting the 8 pin'rs. I went by the local supply house today to
try to get one that was thinner on the edges. They didn't have any 8's.

   Randy

-*-

84730 7-JAN 22:14  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84729)
     From: NIMITZ       To: RANDYKWILSON

Yeah, that's right.   Hope that get's you going.


          David


-*-

84745 8-JAN 09:09  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84727)
     From: JOHNREED     To: RANDYKWILSON

Randy,
I haven't tried to hook up T5 yet, Got all the serial ports
I need for now.  T0 works great at 19,200 with a junk terminal
I picked up.

Serious Hardware Hacking (involves a HACKsaw!):

(34 or 50  pin connector + fine tooth saw + courage + dab of epoxy) =
        any size small connector you want.


           John R. Wainwright

 <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

 *********** InfoXpress ************

-*-

84747 8-JAN 10:35  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84713)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: RANDYKWILSON

Randy,

 > I just got my 68340 up and running yesterday, and spent tonight playing
 > with the serial ports. Has anyone successfully hooked up /t5 yet? And if
 > so, could you give me the pin-out?

The /t5 port works just like the /t3 and /t4 ports.  You need a paddle
board and the cable that goes with it to make it work.

                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

84749 8-JAN 10:51  OSK Applications
     RE: mm/1a 68340 serial ports (Re: Msg 84729)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: RANDYKWILSON

 > So pin 3 on the 340 goes to pin 1 on the paddle (old style)? I know what
 > you mean about getting the 8 pin'rs. I went by the local supply house
 > today to try to get one that was thinner on the edges. They didn't have
 > any 8's.

I don't think that is what David meant. Like, David, I had trouble even
finding 8 pin header connectors and ended up buying a wad of 10 pin ones,
and some 10 conductor ribbon cable. I vaguely remember that the header for
 /t5 on the accel board was a 10 position strip, but I distinctly remember
that it clearly had pin 1 marked on the board. So what I did was to make
sure that the wire on the connectors which went to pin 1 on one side
lined up with pin 1 on the paddle board. Seems like I only had to worry
about the paddle side. My system is all buttoned up right now, but when I
go in it again I will double check on all this.


------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84718 7-JAN 02:40  General Information
     CoCo-2 Emulator
     From: JES68K       To: ALL

Well, after zapping all the difference bytes per Appendix H of the
Extended Color Basic Unraveled book ..... I now have a white page with randow
colored blocks but still not emulating!  But I know I'm getting closer.
I probably got some opcode byte wrong somewhere.

      === Jesse ===

-*-

84719 7-JAN 02:44  General Information
     CoCo-2 Emulator
     From: JES68K       To: ALL

Anyone know what the sumcheck on the two CoCo-2 ROMs should be?

Extended Color Basic ROM: $8000 to $9FFF == ????
Color Basic ROM:          $A000 to $BFFF == ????

If I had these sumchecks, I would know when it was perfect!

       === Jesse ===

-*-

84722 7-JAN 04:27  General Information
     OS9 to MSDog, oops typo MSDos..
     From: DGANTZ       To: ALL

Does anyone know of a program which will run on a 286/386/486 machine that
will read OS9 Level II disks?  I'm not converting, but my brother is
trying to help a MSDog user get some programs and I want to limit the
phone tie up as much as possible, considering IBM's bloatware.

Any leads will be much appreciated.
               Dave

-*-

84733 8-JAN 00:07  General Information
     RE: OS9 to MSDog, oops typo MSDos.. (Re: Msg 84722)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: DGANTZ

there is a CoCo-3 disk program<or CoCo>called Color.zip tis in the PC
Database,OK!
Dennis

-*-

84738 8-JAN 02:43  General Information
     RE: OS9 to MSDog, oops typo MSDos.. (Re: Msg 84733)
     From: DGANTZ       To: COCOKIWI

Thanx!  I'll go download it without hesitation.
              Dave

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84735 8-JAN 01:51  General Information
     CoCo-2 Emulator
     From: JES68K       To: BOISY

Did you get the Emulator running yet?  I now have a blinking title on a green
screen for all my efforts ..... but nothing more!  There are 209 differences
in the Color Basic 1.2 ($a000 to $bfff area) and Extended Basic 1.1 ($8000
to $9fff area) of the Coco-3 ROM as documented in Appendix H of the Extended
Color Basic Unraveled book.

I still need to find someone who knows the actual sumcheck of each of these
ROM areas so I can check my COCO.ROM for accuracy.  I coded up a romcheck
program to compare two files and print the differences from each and a
total differences value.

Can't wait to get this thing running .... having a lot of work to have a
lot of fun (I hope!).

       === Jesse ===

-*-

84762 8-JAN 21:52  General Information
     RE: CoCo-2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84735)
     From: BOISY        To: JES68K

Yes, I got it running Jesse.  On a 60MHz Pentium no less.  So far,
it runs everything I've stuck in it, with the exception of OS-9 Level One,
both 2.0 and 1.x.

Some kind soul sent me the COCO.ROM file for the CoCo 2 (BRUCEGERST I
believe).  You might want to get help from him.

This emulator is VERY nice.  All that's needed is more work to get
OS-9 running on it.

-*-

84771 9-JAN 01:12  General Information
     RE: CoCo-2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84762)
     From: JES68K       To: BOISY

Yes, I also have it running now.  Thanks to being able to get a copy of
Color Basic 1.2 ..... which is where the mistakes were located.

Information for others using the Extended Color Basic Unraveled book:
it has a few errors!  Appendix H had two problems: page H-2 the last
entry for "JSR LA928" shows an incomplete printing of the address field,
it should be A0F0 (not A0F3 as erroneously marked on page B-76). Further,
on page H-3, Address A155 should NOT be listed as a difference.

These two documentation errors kept me from creating a perfect COCO.ROM
using this book!

"BUT it does indeed work" ..... good news indeed.  I too will be testing
it to see just what its full capability really is.  I know of several
others just waiting for me to get it running before they attempt it,
so soon I think everyone with an interest in the Color Computer and owning
an IBM clone will be using this program.

OS9 Level One ....... well, only having access to the source code would
tell if indeed it could run the OS at command line level.  Anybody game
to disassemble and recreate the source code?

      === Jesse ===

-*-

84772 9-JAN 01:18  General Information
     RE: CoCo-2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84735)
     From: JES68K       To: BOISY

Correction to my previous statement: There are 207 (not 209) differences
between the CoCo-3 ROM version for Color Basic 1.2 and Extended Basic 1.1
..... just to accurate.

    === Jesse ===

-*-

84796 9-JAN 18:36  General Information
     RE: CoCo-2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84772)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JES68K

Is there any way to figure out WHY OS-9 won't run? I mean, trap the error code
created in DOS when OS-9 attempts to run? Also, is it possible that the only
problem is the OS-9 disk format?

-*-

84807 9-JAN 21:46  General Information
     RE: CoCo-2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84796)
     From: JES68K       To: DSRTFOX

At this point in time, too little is known about the Emulator .....
very little is actually conveyed from the author about what will and won't
work.  I've had BASIC programs fail in various ways when doing graphics.
I'm still surprised that it does anything useful.

       === Jesse ===

-*-

84840 11-JAN 20:19 General Information
     RE: CoCo-2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84807)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JES68K

When a full review is ready, let me know!

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84751 8-JAN 12:04  Games & Graphics
     Shanghai for Level 2
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ALL


I recently downloaded Shawn (EARTHER) Driscoll's Shanghai for Level 2. Shawn
did an excellent job working within the confines of BASIC09 and illustrates
well the capabilities of his BASIC09 tools package, GUIB. Of course, it
goes without saying that it is slow in response and action. I had heard
that the OSK basic on my MM/1a was pretty much compatable at the source
level so I was wondering how fast it would run on my OSK system. I also have
a copy of Kevin Darling's bgfx which is pretty much compatable with gfx2.

So, I go an edit the source to:

        1) change all gfx2 calls to bfgx calls.

        2) changed the window type codes in the DWSet and the GPLoad calls
           from type 8 to type 3.

        3) Haven't changed these yet, but I suppose I will need to add second
           and third params to the Palette calls there are.

        4) Made the same changes in the guib.b09 program. It loads with no err
ors
           and packs just fine.

I am getting an error 102 though when I try to load the Shanghai.b09 and the
stopping point is accessing the return value from a SYSCALL. If I hadn't taken
the
Basic manual out of my OSK manual set (you know typical it is for MW to have
more documentation than will fit in the binders they give you, right?) to
make some room (I hardly EVER mess with basic), I probably could look this
up for myself, but I have missplaced where I put the manual I extracted.

The program DIMs a variable regs to the datatype registers OK. But after a
SYSCALL to determine the PID, how do I reference the returned value in
Register D0? The CoCo3 version got it from regs.a, but there is no a register
on a 68K MPU. It comes back in the D0 register. I tried changing the
variable regs.a to regs.d0 but that gives me an 020 error during the
program load.

Can anyone help? If so, with Shawn's permission, I will upload the OSK
source for this nice game.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84758 8-JAN 15:53  Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84751)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack,

  OSK basic SysCall requires a different stack frame than 6809, of course.

  Type r=d0,d1,d2,d3,d4,d5,d6,d7,a0,a1,a2,a3,a4:INTEGER
  Dim regs:r
  .....
  Run Syscall($0C,regs)
  id=LAND(regs.d0,$FF)

 Also, if you're only using syscall to get the id, Kevin covered this for you:
  RUn BGFX("ID",id)

  The other thing you'll have to watch for is data type. GFX2 took a lot of
BYTE type variables. BGFX takes almost all INTEGER type. Also, mixing byte
and integer data in a complex data type can cause problems. The type byte's
must travel in pairs (any even number), or you'll get bus fault errors when
trying to access the later integers.

  Scream if it keeps fighting you. I did quite a bit of this sort of thing back
when the mm/1 first came out.

   Randy

-*-

84766 8-JAN 23:21  Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84758)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: RANDYKWILSON

Thanks for the info!!

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84805 9-JAN 21:31  Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84751)
     From: BRUCEGERST   To: COLORSYSTEMS

Why not just spend the LOW LOW price of $15 for TILES (see the VERY simple demo
version 0.1 ) in the database.  It's the best shanghai/mahjongg I've seen!


-*-

84812 9-JAN 23:09  Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84805)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: BRUCEGERST

 > Why not just spend the LOW LOW price of $15 for TILES (see the VERY
 > simple demo
 > version 0.1 ) in the database.  It's the best shanghai/mahjongg I've
 > seen!

The point of my exercise was not merely to obtain a playable Mah Jongg
game for my MM/1a, it was to see if I could port a BASI09 game to
OSK Basic and to see then how much faster it ran on the MM/1a as
opposed to the CoCo3.

I do have the Tiles demo program and do eventually get a check in the
mail for the real thing!


------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84813 9-JAN 23:18  Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84812)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack,

  The B09 code I ported was an arcade style graphics game. I had to add lots
of sleep code to keep the game slow enough to be playable. This program did
minor animation with sequenced get/put buffers. Without sleep calls, you
didn't get to see the animation, as KWin processed the whole put buffer
sequence faster than a single screen refresh (60hz).

  Randy

-*-

84814 10-JAN 03:35 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84751)
     From: EARTHER      To: COLORSYSTEMS


Zack,

     I just uploaded version 1.2 of Shanghai OS-9 (it will be a few days
 before made available).  This final version is faster when doing graphic
 re-draws and during the Dragon building process.  It takes about 5
 seconds to generate a solveable Dragon instead of 3 minutes (now that
 some probability factors were fine-tuned).  Also, the lag between the
 time a tile is clicked and it becomes high-lighted was reduced
 drastically (because the mouse is travelling across a 2D array instead
 of travelling through a 3D array, which bogged down the computer a bit).

     Anyway... Go ahead and make a version of the game for whatever
 computer you want.  The reason why I give out source code is so that
 others can get ideas from it and create new things for OS-9.  I want
 nothing more than to see new programs for OS-9 and I feel that source
 code is one way to help out.  If I had made Shanghai shareware and
 charged money for it, not only would I never see any money, I wouldn't
 be helping anyone wanting to give it their best shot at programming a
 game for OS-9.  Source code is the key to more programs, I think.

     Also, I program in Basic09 because more people have it instead
 of C compilers.  I admit that Shanghai 1.0 & 1.1 were slow (some brute
 force was used to get the games going and Christmas time was a few
 weeks away and I was hurting for play-testers).  Version 1.2 is just
 as fast as any other game like it.  I still play your Pyramid Solitaire
 game that you wrote in C way back when (it too is addictive).

     My next project is to write a game aid for GURPS or TRAVELLER and
 then I will find another game that I like that still has not been
 written for OS-9.  What that game might be?  I don't know yet.

                                               Shawn Driscoll

-*-

84828 10-JAN 23:57 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84814)
     From: REVWCP       To: EARTHER

I am angry.  I am very angry at Earther (Shawn Driscoll).  Since He uploaded
Shanghai, I have not gotten anything accomplished since I am too busy playing
it.  All kidding aside, Shanw, this is excellant work on your part.  I am
extremely impressed.  I will stack your program against anything that Tandy
ever did and there would be no comparison.  This is dynamite programming.
Thank you for taking the time to write it and upload it.
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User's Group Treasurer

-*-

84829 11-JAN 01:49 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84828)
     From: EARTHER      To: REVWCP

 I know what you mean, Brother Jeremy.  Right now I'm sitting through my
 5th game of Shanghai that I can't finish, but the computer can.  While
 I was eating, sleeping, breathing, and coding Shanghai, people thought
 I had fallen off the edge of the earth.  Glad you like the game.

 Shawn Driscoll

-*-

84836 11-JAN 19:41 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84828)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: REVWCP

I concur! I spend practically zippo time on my CoCo3 anymore, since I
got my MM/1 and other toys. But I took the time to download and install
Shawn's Shanghai program on my Mom's CoCo. I was very impressed at what
he did with BASIC09.

I started to port it to OSK Basic, but I realized I had to port guib.b09
over first, and I couldn't find my OSK Basic documentation, I put that
project on the back burner.



------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84844 11-JAN 22:35 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84829)
     From: REVWCP       To: EARTHER

I downloaded the latest edition after I left you the message last night.  It
is certainly faster.  Again thank you for excellant work.

With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User Group Treasurer

-*-

84845 11-JAN 22:37 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84836)
     From: REVWCP       To: COLORSYSTEMS

I don't have an MM/1 but I agree that a port of Guib over to OSK would be
a good idea.
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User Group Treasurer

-*-

84871 13-JAN 19:43 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84836)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack,

 > Shawn's Shanghai program on my Mom's CoCo. I was very impressed at what

Wow, so your mom inherited your CoCo3, too?  :)  My mom still uses it
daily, so it stay up and running on another desk next to my MM/1.


  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84899 14-JAN 23:57 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84871)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: JOELHEGBERG

 > > Shawn's Shanghai program on my Mom's CoCo. I was very impressed at
 > Wow, so your mom inherited your CoCo3, too?  :)  My mom still uses it
 > daily, so it stay up and running on another desk next to my MM/1.

Actually, my Mom didn't inherit my CoCo, while it hasn't been turned on
in months, I still maintain possession of my main system, which has two
hard drives.

Mom has her OWN CoCo!! She uses it (with a program I wrote) to keep up
with her checking account. And she used to love the rompack version of
Shanghai, until I got a Windows version ...


------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84932 15-JAN 21:17 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84814)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: EARTHER

How about a Missle Command type game for OS-9?  Its one of my all time
favcvorites.
 Thanks,
 Wayne

-*-

84944 16-JAN 01:46 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84932)
     From: EARTHER      To: WTHOMPSON

"How about a Missle Command type game for OS-9?"

     You read my mind.  I've played the Microsoft Arcade games on 486
machines and wished OS-9 had them.

-*-

84947 16-JAN 11:55 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84944)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: EARTHER (NR)

 > "How about a Missle Command type game for OS-9?"
 >
 > You read my mind.  I've played the Microsoft Arcade games on 486
 > machines and wished OS-9 had them.
 >

You know, someone else mentioned Missile Command a few weeks/months ago right
here and Mark Griffith (I think it was Mark, sorry Mark if it wasn't!) said
in effect, "Why port 15 year old arcade games to our current computer
systems? Bring us something FRESH, something NEW."

In a way, I kind of agree with Mark, as porting over old games seems a lot
like re-runs on TV. But in another way, I'd kindof like to see this myself,
as I was quite a Missile Commander on the original Atari home video game
machines. Dazzeled my friends by racking up impressive scores. Most didn't
seem to mind having to wait for so long before it was their turn, as I could
take as long as a half an hour or more at a single game!!

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84949 16-JAN 12:46 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84947)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: ALL

Anyone remeber playing Bjork's BASH? Well, Northern Xposure has an OS-9
game now that is nearly identical, only better! They sent me a copy for review,
and I've never got anything up and runnning from OS-9 so easy! You can also
edit the levels with a text editor to make your own levels. For those
unfamiliar with BASH, you have
 probably seen "Arkanoid"... similar. The game is colorful and smooth when
running alone (no background processes). Alan DeKok wrote it. He says that
graphics smotthness will be better if you use "VRN", available from the
database here. The game is $25, an
d full source code is available for $30. The source is over 150K with 10K docs,
and includes the sprite library he developed. So programmers may want to pick
that up also! Contact Northern Xposure, 7 Greenboro Cres, Ottawa, ON K1T 1W6,
CANADA. I don't norm
ally "expose" one of my reviews like this, but there are very few OS-9 graphic
games to go around!

-*-

84951 16-JAN 13:33 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84947)
     From: BOISY        To: COLORSYSTEMS (NR)

So you had an Atari 2600 system eh Zack?  I had one as a kid, and boy,
I loved it.  Recently I acquired one just for nostalgia.  The cartridges
are real cheap nowadays.  And yes, I have Missle Command. ;-)

-*-

84952 16-JAN 13:58 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84944)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: EARTHER (NR)

I just played on a friend's 486 too and I was wishing for it too!

-*-

84955 16-JAN 14:05 Games & Graphics
     RE: Shanghai for Level 2 (Re: Msg 84947)
     From: WTHOMPSON    To: COLORSYSTEMS (NR)

Why port 15 year old games to our current system?  Because it is a classic
game, enjoyed by many.  It must make SOME sense to port it to a current
computer system, Micrsoft did it. :-)  And while we may not always like
what they put out, they seem to be doing alright. :-)
 Thanks,
 Wayne

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84754 8-JAN 13:46  General Information
     display problems
     From: JWILKERSON   To: ALL

    Well, I have 2 problems:

1:  When exiting SuperComm, or Sled, or other programs that define windows, I
    get a white screen.  I want my screen display to go back to red or green
    text (depending).

     I did some mod awhile back.  It made my os9 Title screen 80 cols with green

      background and black text.  I forget what mod this was to what module.
       Perhaps undoing this will help.   I want my screen color to STAY the
      same colors.  I hate changing colors and clearing the dispaly.  ALSO, Seld

     er sled, has white text on the white background if it fires up on any
screen
other than on it finds on boot.  If the colors have changed at all it goes wild.


2:  Monitor.  I sprayed the screen with windex, cleaned it and turned it on.
      After awhile, the screen wenet dim and died.  Power light went off too.
      Waiting and turning it on produced a high putched squeal, then nothing.
       Waiting longer, I got a screen that looked like a tv picture with the
     V-hold screwed up.   Letting it sit for an hour produced a perfectly
     operating monitor.   Before cleaning, it had been on for a few hours.  Was
      the cleaning harmful, or just coincidence?  Maybe it just overheated and
      went into thermal shutdown?

any help would be super!

Seeya
          -- John

-*-

84777 9-JAN 06:18  General Information
     RE: display problems (Re: Msg 84754)
     From: ALWAGNER     To: JWILKERSON

John, I can't help you with your first problem (not returning to your original
screen colors when exiting certain programs), as I haven't had that problem
with Supercomm, but I have seen it with some other programs.  With Supercomm, I
initialize window 7 and start a shell in it.  Then I fire up Supercomm from
within /w7 with the command line: Supercomm<>>>/w7.  Exiting Supercomm returns
me to a blue screen with white letters like I had before executing Supercomm.
Good luck in your search for the answer to that one.  As for the problem with
the monitor, a LIGHT mist of any brand of window cleaner on the front surface
of the CRT should not have caused the conditions you described. HOWEVER, if you
got a little carried away and somehow managed to get the spray on the high
voltage section in the rear of the monitor, the results could well be what you
describe.  If this is correct, you are lucky to be complaining only about a
temporary problem with the monitor and not the permanent demise of you or your
monitor.  I regularly clean my CRT's screen using a spray cleaner (even with
the unit on) and have had no bad results.  I am careful to spray only the front
glass surface.  If you wish to clean the rest of the monitor, I suggest
spraying a cloth first and then using the slightly damp cloth to wipe the
remainder of the cabinet.  Notice the words "slightly damp".  Do not wet the
cloth to dripping or you will have the same problem again if it drips through
the air vents onto the circuitry.  A monitor is a reasonably safe device to
work around if a little care is exercised.  May you have many happy years of
computing.


                                            AlWagner

-*-

84790 9-JAN 16:50  General Information
     RE: display problems (Re: Msg 84777)
     From: JWILKERSON   To: ALWAGNER

   That's just it.  All I did clean was the screen.  At no time did spray hit
any other part of the screen.  I hope there wasn't a gap between the glass and
the cabinet.  Or, overspray didn't hit anywhere vital.  GAD.  I'll clean the
dadagg
daggone thing with the system powered OFF from now on.

Supercomm gave me no problems at all resetting the screen right until I did some

mod to my windows or somesuch.  If only I could remember _what_.  i do not know.

I have a vacation now I can use to get this system shipshape.  I may have to
swap out boot modules all week to discover what it is.  I think it was the mod
to bring up an 80 column os9 title screen.  I need to check database for
familiar stuff.

Seeya
          -- John
thanks also for pointing out the possible hazard to my life!  I will be safer
from now on.


-*-

84817 10-JAN 18:36 General Information
     RE: display problems (Re: Msg 84754)
     From: MIKE_GUZZI   To: JWILKERSON

sometimes cleaning it will generate strong static charges. now and then i get
blotches of distorted colors on my tv and monitor. what i do to fix this is
turn the monitor off <== very important!!! and use a bulk tape erasor to
eliminate the problem.


-*-

84908 15-JAN 05:52 General Information
     RE: display problems (Re: Msg 84790)
     From: ALWAGNER     To: JWILKERSON (NR)

I am sorry to report that on or off a capacitor in the high voltage section
stores a potentially lethal charge, so, care is required power on or off.
Perhaps the problem is a combination of things.  If the monitor is a few years
old, perhaps dust has accumulated in the high voltage section.  This is not
meant to be an attack on anyone's house cleaning as high voltage in general
acts as a dust collector.  The dust also has a tendancy to disapate such
voltages
causing the power supply to see a higher load than the original design.
If the load were high enough, the slight additional load caused by spraying
the screen may have been enough to "send it over the edge."
Peek in through the vents.  If it looks like a dust bunny convention in there,
it needs to be cleaned.  Unless you are familiar with how to handle the high
voltage section's potential danger, have someone who
is Qualified do the cleaning.
Beyond this I am somewhat at a loss to explain the occurance other than to
chalk it off to pure coincidence.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84756 8-JAN 14:01  General Information
     Problems pt II
     From: JWILKERSON   To: ALL

Here is the xmode of my windows.  (extended xmode)


 nam=Term mgr=SCF ddr=CC3IO hpn=07 hpa=FFA0 upc=00 bso=00
 dlo=00 eko=01 alf=01 nul=00 pau=01 pag=18 bsp=08 del=18
 eor=0D eof=1B rpr=09 dup=19 psc=17 int=03 qut=05 bse=08
 ovf=07 par=80 bau=00 xon=00 xof=00 col= row= xtp=
 wnd= val= sty= cpx= cpy= fgc= bgc= bdc=




 nam=W7 mgr=SCF ddr=CC3IO hpn=07 hpa=FFA7 upc=00 bso=00
 dlo=00 eko=01 alf=01 nul=00 pau=01 pag=18 bsp=08 del=18
 eor=0D eof=1B rpr=09 dup=19 psc=17 int=03 qut=05 bse=08
 ovf=07 par=80 bau=00 xon=00 xof=00 col= row= xtp=
 wnd= val= sty= cpx= cpy= fgc= bgc= bdc=


And regular one:

 -upc -bsb bsl echo lf null=0 pause pag=24 bsp=08
del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=09 dup=19 psc=17 abort=03
quit=05 bse=08 bell=07 type=80 baud=00 xon=00 xoff=00
That was /w7



Use: Xmode </device> [options]
to change dev descriptor
oops...

again...

 -upc -bsb bsl echo lf null=0 pause pag=24 bsp=08
del=18 eor=0D eof=1B reprint=09 dup=19 psc=17 abort=03
quit=05 bse=08 bell=07 type=80 baud=00 xon=00 xoff=00
Seeya
          -- John

-*-

84759 8-JAN 17:06  General Information
     InfoXpress
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: ALL

I am an InfoXpress rookie now. Have default.ini set up and tried a log on.
Got into Delphi fine but when trying to process my mail block the system
ung. On screen I saw:
       IX-32:  File Mail.sec not found
       What do you want to do? go mail mail for

Any ideas? Thanks.
 --TedJaeger

-*-

84822 10-JAN 19:37 General Information
     RE: InfoXpress (Re: Msg 84759)
     From: THETAURUS    To: TEDJAEGER

        >>I am an InfoExpress rookie now.

        I just placed in order, so I will be in the same boat<rookie> :-)
   In case of similar problems, maybe I should just save your message and
   repost it after I get it! :-)
        Seriously, I can't wait to set that up. Will be fun having a new
   'toy' for the Coco to work with. How do you like it so far<if it has
   been fixed>?  Sounds like it is just a case of a wrong filename.
   Manually check the file in the directory maybe?
        >Chris<

-*-

84825 10-JAN 20:40 General Information
     RE: InfoXpress (Re: Msg 84822)
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: THETAURUS (NR)

Hey, I am making progress. My problems with mail handling seemed to have
been my misuse of the "GoWord". I had put "mail mail" but should have
had only "mail". Anyway, I'll bet youre going to like this porgram!

-*-

84833 11-JAN 06:36 General Information
     RE: InfoXpress (Re: Msg 84759)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: TEDJAEGER

 > I am an InfoXpress rookie now. Have default.ini set up and tried a log
 > on. Got into Delphi fine but when trying to process my mail block the
 > system ung. On screen I saw:
 > IX-32:  File Mail.sec not found
 > What do you want to do? go mail mail for

Ted, as I mentioned in your mail reply, there is a file that IX is looking
for that doesn't exist until the first time you log into the forum.  All
it is is a list of the forum sections.  If you have logged into the forum
at all, this file should now exist.  Look in your IX directory for a file
with the extension of .sec and list it.  If it doesn't exist, let me know
and also let BILLDICKHAUS know.


                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84761 8-JAN 20:19  Programmers Den
     Cursing Curses
     From: DAVGEORGE    To: ALL

Has anyone done much with curses?

I am porting a program that I wrote in Unix to OS-9 and I can't
get curses to scroll.  I have scrollok(stdscr, TRUE) and I am
using scroll(), but when I reach the bottom of the screen we just
sit theree.  I have written a small test using termcap functions
and it works ok, but I need the multiple windows in curses.

Any ideas?

-*-

84776 9-JAN 02:48  Programmers Den
     RE: Cursing Curses (Re: Msg 84761)
     From: KSCALES      To: DAVGEORGE

 > Has anyone done much with curses?
 >
 > I am porting a program that I wrote in Unix to OS-9 and I can't
 > get curses to scroll.  I have scrollok(stdscr, TRUE) and I am
 > using scroll(), but when I reach the bottom of the screen we just
 > sit theree.

Which version of curses are you using?  Currently, the one recommended
is probably the one in EFFO's forum22.lzh.

I don't think that any of the programs I have used curses with have
utilized scroll(), but maybe someone else has used it.

One wild guess:  check your Termcap file:  make sure that the "sf" (scroll
forward) entry is set to "sf=\012" (linefeed; correct) rather
than "sf=\015" (carriage return; incorrect).  Some "vsc" termcaps have been
distributed with this error.

Good luck!  What's your program do?
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84784 9-JAN 11:11  Programmers Den
     RE: Cursing Curses (Re: Msg 84776)
     From: DAVGEORGE    To: KSCALES

I downloaded the EFFO stuff earlier so I will check out the curses in
there.  I am using the one that came in the terminfo??.lzh

Thanks for the info about termcap.  I will check my sf to see what it is
set to.

The program I am porting is a communications program that will emulate
many terminals on any terminal with a VERY complete termcap entry.  I
have access to many termcap entries so it should work for almost anyone.

-*-

84788 9-JAN 15:21  Programmers Den
     RE: Cursing Curses (Re: Msg 84784)
     From: KSCALES      To: DAVGEORGE

 > I downloaded the EFFO stuff earlier so I will check out the curses in
 > there.  I am using the one that came in the terminfo??.lzh

Some versions of curses also have a bug in the nl()/nonl() functions.
I had to fix those for my 'sc' port.  (Actually there were quite a few
bugs I had to fix in that version of curses.  As far as I know, that was
the only OSK version of curses that used Terminfo instead of Termcap.)

The nice things about the newer EFFO (forum22.lzh) curses are:
  - lots of the bugs come pre-quashed ;-)
  - it's much, much faster
  - it uses Termcap, rather than requiring a Terminfo database.

Good luck... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

84826 10-JAN 21:10 Programmers Den
     RE: Cursing Curses (Re: Msg 84788)
     From: DAVGEORGE    To: KSCALES

I was using the Terminfo Curses.  That was the one that didn't scroll.
I downloaded forum22 from cabrales and that did scroll, but it is
missing even more curses functions than the Terminfo version.  Would
it be possible for you to maybe upload your squashed version of the
Terminfo Curses?  I have the one that is up here (or did I get it from CIS,
anyway...).
Thanks for the info.  I will look at the nl()/nonl().

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84778 9-JAN 06:32  Applications (6809)
     RE: Profile (Re: Msg 84407)
     From: ALWAGNER     To: THETAURUS

I have just stumbled into the middle of this thread. Have you considered
tranfering the data to Dcalc?  Other systems such as Lotus and other multiple
program systems use the database to store the data and then use the spreadsheet
to display it.  I have both programs and remember reading about doing the
transfer, but I'd have to look it up as to how it is accomplished.

                                                    AlWagner


-*-

84780 9-JAN 07:59  General Information
     Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit
     From: JMOORFOOT    To: ALL

My Puppo adapter has died. Can anyone help me with a circuit
so that I can repair it?

Regards
John

-*-

84797 9-JAN 18:40  General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84780)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JMOORFOOT

You can order a back issue of "68' micros" for $5. State that you want the
issue with the Puppo Keyboard Adapter Schematic. I believe it was the NOV 93
issue (and I'm the editor/publisher!). Send a check to FARNA Systems, Box 321,
warner Robins, GA 31099-0321. I just had some more printed!

-*-

84799 9-JAN 19:27  General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84797)
     From: JMOORFOOT    To: DSRTFOX

Can you handle credit cards? I'm from Australia, & it is a hassle to go
through the bank check route.

-*-

84838 11-JAN 20:14 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84799)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JMOORFOOT

Unfortunately I can't handle credit cards. You can get a International
Money Order from the bank, or maybe at the Post Office. A regular Autralia
Post money order won't do though.. MUSt be International and made out in
US $ currency. If it weren't for the air mail cost I'd send one right out
to you!

-*-

84842 11-JAN 20:39 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84838)
     From: JMOORFOOT    To: DSRTFOX

OK. I will arange it.  I have just been down the bank chek route for
another purchase, & it cost me AUS$8 for the check as well as losing out on the
conversion, so I will try the Money Order.

-*-

84851 12-JAN 05:28 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84799)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JMOORFOOT

WHERE! in Australia,MATE....I,m a Kiwi..I lived in Sydney for 7 years
back in the early 70,s,left NZ in 69...came here in 76....
Dennis

-*-

84870 13-JAN 16:06 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84851)
     From: JMOORFOOT    To: COCOKIWI

Geelong Victoria.

-*-

84875 13-JAN 20:17 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84870)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: JMOORFOOT

What exactly is the conversion rate now?

-*-

84878 13-JAN 22:37 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84870)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JMOORFOOT

Ah!ha.OK!.....You calling from there? WOW!some phone bill!<G>
Dennis

-*-

84883 14-JAN 02:21 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84875)
     From: JMOORFOOT    To: DSRTFOX

Around AU$1 to US$.65.

-*-

84884 14-JAN 02:24 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84878)
     From: JMOORFOOT    To: COCOKIWI

No phone bill. I have internet access (as does most of OZ & even NZ), & so does
delphi <G>. ...zero cost for access!

-*-

84890 14-JAN 23:08 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84884)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JMOORFOOT

AH!ha....Real nice!<grin>the world is getting smaller,and Smaller!
I was born and raised in N.Z...Auckland......
I was over your way two years ago,when my wifes parents had their 50th
ing aniv....My wife is Philipino.......So did the round trip!
I have been around the CoCo since day 1....os9-1/2......
Dennis

-*-

84891 14-JAN 23:11 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84884)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JMOORFOOT

as for the adaptor..Circuit...Talk to DSRTFOX here..he puts out a mag
back in Sept93 he ran an article on that item .....Dennis

-*-

84900 14-JAN 23:59 General Information
     RE: Wanted - Puppo Adapter Circuit (Re: Msg 84891)
     From: JMOORFOOT    To: COCOKIWI (NR)

Thanks,          have already arranged with DSRTFOX to get it. I was downloading
 when
you tried to chat, & you were gone by the time I finished. It is a beatutiful
day in Geelong 25 degrees C & a clear blue sky. See you later.

John

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84785 9-JAN 13:27  General Information
     Terry Simmon's Address
     From: NIMITZ       To: ALL

Does anyone have an electronic address for Terry Simmons (MRUPGRADE)??

    Thanks!


-*-

84798 9-JAN 18:41  General Information
     RE: Terry Simmon's Address (Re: Msg 84785)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: NIMITZ

terry recently dropped his Delphi service, as I guess you know by now. You
might try FIDO net, but I don't know if he gets on there or not.

-*-

84804 9-JAN 21:16  General Information
     RE: Terry Simmon's Address (Re: Msg 84785)
     From: JEJONES      To: NIMITZ

 > Does anyone have an electronic address for Terry Simmons (MRUPGRADE)??

He calls up Boisy's BBS, The OS-9 Continuum, which is on StGNet, so if you
have access to StGNet, then it should be possible to send email to him there.

(Anyone out there know what gateways to StGNet exist?)


*** posted w/InfoXpress 1.1 ***

-*-

84815 10-JAN 04:35 General Information
     RE: Terry Simmon's Address (Re: Msg 84798)
     From: JEJONES      To: DSRTFOX

 > terry recently dropped his Delphi service, as I guess you know by now.
 > You might try FIDO net, but I don't know if he gets on there or not.

I believe he does indeed visit the CoCo and possibly the OS-9 echoes as
well, thanks to a local FIDO BBS (actually it's a Macintosh running a
FIDO-compatible package).

*** posted w/InfoXpress 1.1 ***

-*-

84816 10-JAN 18:12 General Information
     RE: Terry Simmon's Address (Re: Msg 84804)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: JEJONES

Hi James--Boisys BBS number is 515 9875315 <Phil>

-*-

84824 10-JAN 20:27 General Information
     RE: Terry Simmon's Address (Re: Msg 84804)
     From: NIMITZ       To: JEJONES

Thanks, James.  Guess I'll have to go snail mail!

     David

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84789 9-JAN 15:50  General Information
     G-Windows Help
     From: SMAYS        To: ALL

Can someone familiar with G-Windows please help me. I have a TC70 and would
like to have a G-Window open up at full size on boot up. The reason for this,
is that I have another computer connected to /t1, and cannot use the mouse,
which is also needed at the same /t1 port, to access the Grow-big/Grow-Small
button on the G-Window Status Bar. My default window is much to small to be
useful as a terminal window.

One other thing, I read or heard somewhere, that the version 4 floppy drivers
provided full formatting support, and using Dmode, that an IBM compatible disk
could be read, but I don't recall whether or not it could be written to. If so,
how do I set Dmode To read the IBM formatted disk? And finally, can I also use
Dmode to read a 3.5 high density Mac || formatted disk?

Thank's a Plenty
Sonny May

-*-

84803 9-JAN 20:34  General Information
     RE: G-Windows Help (Re: Msg 84789)
     From: FHOGG        To: SMAYS

Sonny May,

In the startup.gw file is a line setenv WINDOW etc etc. You need to add or
change the settings for SX and SY. Try SX=400,SY=640 for starters. That will
take care of that problem.

On the TC70 you need another utility called PC Utility from Hazelwood to read,
write, format IBM disks. Using dmode will not help.

Although it is probably possible to read high density Mac floppies it is not
supported and I know of no plans to support it in the future.

I transfer files from my Mac to OSK vie IBM style disks. It is an extra step
but it does work. I've also uploaded files to my workspace on Delphi with one
system and then downloaded with the other. Big pain but it also works.

Hope this helps.

Frank

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84818 10-JAN 19:22 General Information
     Sony HD
     From: CLTUCKER     To: ALL

Hi all. I have the Sony SCSI 40 meg hd. Have not been able to make it work
 on the COCO. Does anyone have any info on this? Thks.(g)
CLTUCKER

-*-

84827 10-JAN 23:20 General Information
     CDI Computer Info
     From: MREGC        To: ALL


Fresh back from Winter CES (Consumer Electronics Show) in Las Vegas I thought
some of you might be interested in some of the info I got from the Philips
booth.

    First of all, the following info came from the only man at the show
knowledgeable in the hardware aspects of CDI, since everyone Philips staffed
there was only up on the software end of things. However, this man was "just"
the head of marketing, meaning his specialty still is not in hardware.

    In all the MM/1 accelerator card talk I thought it was said that the
Motorola 68340 was going to be in the next series of CDI players. The guy
from Philips, however, had no knowledge of the 68340 and said that the
68070 would continue to be used, the only upgrade being the full motion
video card (Digital Video card), which, by the way, is being used for more
than just showing movies off of CD, they were demoing some games which used
the Digital Video card. It would be wise to take this info with a grain of
salt, since, as this man mistakenly thought that the 68070 was a Motorola
chip, he could just as easily be mistaken about the 68340.

    Now for the big question. I asked him about Philips' possible plans to
provide an upgrade for CDI players to become computers. He said that players
continue to be made with the expansion port for just such a possibility. In
fact, the idea is currently being investigated. The big holdup, according to
the marketing rep, is the US government. He said that, due to the possibility
of people being able to easily use a CDI computer to "capture" copywritten
images and use them for their own personal unauthorized use, the government
is reluctant to allow easy public access to such a device. It would seem to
me that doing such things is already childsplay with current computer
hardware, but that's what the man said. Because of this government
resistance, he said not to even expect an announcement on such an expansion
product for another 2 to 3 years. He also says that he already knows
of someone who has converted has CDI player into a full fledged computer, and
he *thinks* that that computer is running under OS9.

    The final question I discussed with him was whether or not a CDI computer
from Philips would run OS9 as its primary operating system. He said that it
was a distinct possibility, but not definite.

...Eric...

-*-

84835 11-JAN 07:21 General Information
     4 Meg Hack instructions
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: ALL

To anyone what received the 4 Meg Hack instructions from me.

I forgot to add something important to this file.  When you have completed
the hack and have patched your init file, you need to remove change the
memory jumpers on the mother board, those that are below the PAL and next
to the backplane.  Just remove the jumper closest to the backplane and
keep the other one there.  Just to opposite of the settings for a 1 Meg
system.

If anyone is having any problems, please let me know.


                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

84847 11-JAN 23:29 General Information
     MM/1a vs. 386DX/33
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ALL

I don't know if this is an accurate metric or not, but at any rate, it is
good info on comparisons.

I have a MM/1a (an MM/1 with the 68340 Accelerator Board Upgrade) and I have
a 80386DX (33Mhz). The MM/1a, using Mike Haaland's GIFShow running at ~16Mhz
can display a representative graphic file in 10 seconds. The same file, using
the GFX Viewer program which comes with Pro-Comm+ for Windows, takes 13.5
seconds to display.

Go figure. <grin>

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84852 12-JAN 12:30 General Information
     RE: MM/1a vs. 386DX/33 (Re: Msg 84847)
     From: CBJ          To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack,
     You should really try a GIF viewer under MS-DOS because using Windows is
slowing you 80386 down tremendously.  I use Graphics workshop and GIF files
usually take about 3-5 seconds, although some are only about 2 seconds or less.
OS-9 is because it is working on top of
MS-DOS.  I realize K-Windows does the same thing but it is really optimized to
work with OS-9 where as Windows doesn't seem to like MS-DOS (?).  Windows, in
my opinion, is a comedy of mistakes all rolled up into GUI and marketed to the
people that don't know what a real windowing envirnment is.
-Carl

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84854 12-JAN 20:25 OSK Applications
     MM/1 peripherals and support
     From: NIMITZ       To: ALL

It is the policy of BlackHawk Enterprises to try to maintain the MM/1 and
it's successor machines as USER FRIENDLY machines.  We do not intend to force
anyone to open the case and solder in order to use basic peripherals.  Of
course past decisions may cause us to make some adjustments, but we hope to
minimize those.
We realize that there are more personal sales out there if we don't force
people into hardware hacking than if we do!

    This clarification is in response to some recent disputes regarding choices
of standards for the MM/1.

-*-

84860 12-JAN 22:59 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 peripherals and support (Re: Msg 84854)
     From: WA2EGP       To: NIMITZ

Thank you, thank you, thank you.  I was getting tired  of the machine, IMS and
possibly BE getting blasted because it wasn't PC-like.  Wait till they move to
mini-DIN connectors.....the whole mess will start all over again (grin).

-*-

84873 13-JAN 20:02 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 peripherals and support (Re: Msg 84860)
     From: NIMITZ       To: WA2EGP

Don't I know it!   I hope to find an easy way to fix this in the future.
Look for modularity in any future machines.

        David

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84856 12-JAN 21:00 General Information
     Shanghai
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: EARTHER

Like many others I have downloaded the latest Shanghai. Unforch I never
got version 1.0 and when I try to run the new one I get error 216. I have
the packed Shanghai with runb and guib in an execution directory and
attributes set. I am not sure I have the latest GUIB as it has been a year
since I have done much with my CoCo. Does Shanghai call anything else
external? Where is version 1.0 so that I might locate docs?
 --Thanks,
 --TedJaeger

-*-

84857 12-JAN 21:51 General Information
     RE: Shanghai (Re: Msg 84856)
     From: MITHELEN     To: TEDJAEGER

Whoiops, looks that the datafile for the tiles wasn't included in the latest
submission. I'll move the 1.0 (or 1.1) submission back into view until I
can "fix" the 1.2 submission
--
Paul Jerkatis
Assistant OS-9 Database Manager

-*-

84876 13-JAN 20:58 General Information
     RE: Shanghai (Re: Msg 84857)
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: MITHELEN

Thanks, I needed that!
 --TedJaeger

-*-

84881 14-JAN 00:53 General Information
     RE: Shanghai (Re: Msg 84856)
     From: EARTHER      To: TEDJAEGER

Hmmm....  It looks like the database manager removed the Shanghai 1.0
datafiles from the OS-9 download area.  I'll look into it.

-*-

84882 14-JAN 01:10 General Information
     RE: Shanghai (Re: Msg 84876)
     From: EARTHER      To: TEDJAEGER

Looks like MITHELEN fixed things.  I hope Shanghai v1.2 is running for
you okay, now?  Give a yell if any problems arise.

Shawn Driscoll

-*-

84935 15-JAN 21:31 General Information
     RE: Shanghai (Re: Msg 84882)
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: EARTHER

Got it running fine now but for the moment have only a monochrome
monitor hooked up. Cant wait to see Shanghai in color!
Bests
---TedJaeger

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84859 12-JAN 22:55 General Information
     CoCo-2 Emulator
     From: JES68K       To: ALL

Has anyone been successful at running any of the ROMPAKs on the CoCo-2
Emulator?  Which ones?  What was the Length of Code, Start Adr and Entry
Adr for each game?  I am presently trying to get "Super Bustout" to run
and am using the following values:

$1000, $C000, ROMPAK code, 33 zero bytes, $C000
in my "bustout.pak" file.

I have asked the Sysop of ACS BBS in Atlanta to add a Emulator SIG as soon
as we add our new 1Gig Hard drive.  And he has agreed to do so, so we will
begin collecting "Emulator-related" files for those with an interest in
this program.  The .DSK and .PAK extensions would probably the format of
any program files and would eliminate the sort of thing I am into right
now .... only one person should have to do this kind of effort and let all
others ENJOY his efforts!  Anyway, we will do our best to provide some
support stuff for the Emulator.

       === Jesse ===

-*-

84864 12-JAN 23:39 General Information
     RE: CoCo-2 Emulator (Re: Msg 84859)
     From: JES68K       To: JES68K

Correction to previous message:  Bustout now works!  I saw my mistake when
I left last message:

Bustout needs this values:

4096, $C000, ROMPAK code, 33 zero bytes, $C000
in your "bustout.pak" file.

It is slow but does work on the Emulator!

Next ROMPAK I will try is ROMAN CHECKERS.

     === Jesse ===

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84861 12-JAN 23:02 Telecom (6809)
     ZMODEM for Supercomm 2.2
     From: ISC          To: RANDYKWILSON

Randy,

Is it true that the latest version of ZMODEM (RZ/SZ) will not run with a
6309, or am I having some other weird problem?

Thanks.

Bill

-*-

84862 12-JAN 23:19 Telecom (6809)
     RE: ZMODEM for Supercomm 2.2 (Re: Msg 84861)
     From: MITHELEN     To: ISC

NpoNope... it is not true... ANY program w for the 6809 will run on a 6309
system... you are having some sort of weird problem... care to elaborate more...

 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84863 12-JAN 23:26 Telecom (6809)
     RE: ZMODEM for Supercomm 2.2 (Re: Msg 84861)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: ISC

Bill, Ican not say, for sure, that it will work with v2.2, but have yet to
recieve any other complaints. This is a common enough setup that if it didn't
work, I *would* have heard from someone.

 I can say that zmodem 3.24 works fine with SuperComm v2.3(beta) with both a
B&B pboost boot, and a 6309 booted as a 6809.

   Randy

-*-

84865 13-JAN 01:06 Telecom (6809)
     RE: ZMODEM for Supercomm 2.2 (Re: Msg 84862)
     From: ISC          To: MITHELEN

Paul,

I found the problem---very simple, bad diskette caused an error reading
rz/sz when downloading using ZMODEM.  The problem went away when I used my
backup copy.  The download would start normally, but after the overlay
window for ZMODEM appeared, the diskette would begin to read, the error
would occur and the overlay window would disappear.  Recopying the diskette
from the backup fixed it.  Thanks for the quick response, though.  I'm
glad the bug was a simple one.

Bill

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84866 13-JAN 02:47 OSK Applications
     144e_help
     From: LARRYOLSON   To: ALL

  Is there someone that could give me some help in hooking up this LineLink
144e modem to my MM/1 ?
  This is driving me nuts, because I don't know if the problem is hardware
or software.
  First some details, I'm using /T3, and T3's type byte is set to 80,
 on the paddle board pins 1&2, 5&6 are strapped together, pins 1-12 are
strapped for DTE, I am using the cable that I was using to run my Zoom 2400
modem on the MM/1. This is a DB-9 to DB-25 with the following pins connected..
   DB-9      DB-25
     1 ------- 8
    2 ------- 3
    3 ------- 2
    4 ------- 20
    5 ------- 7 & 1
    6 ------- 6
    7 ------- 4
    8 ------- 5
    9 ------- 22

  This cable works between the MM/1 and the Zoom, but when I tried it on the
LineLink, I get strange results. Using Sterm I can send a dialing string to the
modem, the modem will dial the number, Delphi (also tried CIS, same result)
will answer, I hear the one tone and then the other tone, but when I press any
key, the modem will disconnect the line and hang up.
  I thought that the problem might be the cable, so I made up another cable
by putting a DB-9 on the cable that came with the modem. The cable that came
with it was for a Mac, and only has 6 wires. Tracing the wires back to the
DB-25 I ended up making the cable as follows...
  DB-9    DB-25
   1 ------ 8
   2 ------ 3
   3 ------ 2
   4 ------ 20
   5 ------ 7
   6 n/c
   7 n/c
   8 ------ 5
   9 n/c

  Needless to say, this didn't make any difference, the modem acted the same
way. It would make the connection, but as soon as I pressed any key, it would
hang up the phone line.
  What is also strange to me is the tones I hear. All the modems I have used
before, the second tone is a higher frequency that the first, but with this
modem the second tone is a lower frequency that the first.
  I have a feeling that the problem is with the setup values in the modem,
and that I'm not putting the modem in the correct mode. I have tried using
the standard configuration settings that Mark G.
 recommends but with no luck. Same problem.
  Could someone give me some directions on what to try ???

 Larry Olson

-*-

84869 13-JAN 10:20 OSK Applications
     RE: 144e_help (Re: Msg 84866)
     From: CBJ          To: LARRYOLSON

Larry,
     You are likely not waiting long enough for the the modem to finish up
making its handshaking and other relevant discourse with the other modem.
Your high speed, error correcting modem must first establish what speed the
other modem is operating at, negotiate a speed that they can talk at, then it
needs to decide on what error correction protocol they will use and whether
data compression will be used (if any).  Hence the extra tones and time needed
to "connect".  You should not hit a key until you see a msg from your modem
signalling connect.  If however you don't get a msg you may need to give it an
"AT" command to turn on the connect messages.  It will be listed in your
manual.  If you wait about 5 seconds after you hear the last tone and it still
disconnects then you have some other problem.  Let us know what happens.
 Carl

-*-

84885 14-JAN 03:38 OSK Applications
     RE: 144e_help (Re: Msg 84866)
     From: PAGAN        To: LARRYOLSON

 Larry,

 What are you modem registers set to?  I have a LineLink 144E and found that
 connecting to Delphi thru Tymnet I couldn't use any correction or such.
 Heres how I have my registers set:

 B1 E1 L1 M0 N1 T Q0 V1 W1 X4 Y0 &C1 &D3 &G0 &J0 &K3 &L0 &P0 &Q6 &R0 &S0 &T4
 &U0 &X0 &Y0 \C0 \G0 \Q3 \T000 \V1 \X0 %A000 %D2 %E1

 S00:000 S02:043 S03:013 S04:010 S05:008 S06:002 S07:040 S08:002 S09:006
 S10:014 S11:075 S12:040 S14:8AH S16:00H S18:000 S21:38H S22:71H S23:17H
 S25:005 S26:001 S27:4AH S36:003 S37:000 S38:020 S46:138 S48:007 S49:010
 S50:200 S63:000 S82:128

 Some of these are superfulous.  For instance, M0 is because my wife always
 gripes about the sound from the speaker <g>.

 Different from the defaults that might be important:

 &C1 - Carrier detect follows state of remote carrier
 &D3 - not sure what this does but it seemed to help!
 &Q6 - disables v42.bis
 &R0 - sets for 'PC' mode.  I'm not sure if this make a difference or not
 S36:003 - attempt async connection using automatinc speed buffering

 If this is all wrong I hope some body corrects me because I still have a
 probelm once in a while with connections lousing up.

 Oh yeah, your RTS and CTS must be working for the LineLink144 to work
 properly.  I noticed that your 'new' cable doesn't have RTS connected.  That
 should be 7 on the DB-9 to 4 on the DB-25.  Your original cable tooks OK
 to me.

 Stephen (PAGAN)


-*-

84903 15-JAN 01:31 OSK Applications
     RE: 144e_help (Re: Msg 84885)
     From: LARRYOLSON   To: PAGAN

  Stephen,
    I'll check out those settings and see if they help here.
  I was able to get on CIS last night at 9600, using just the following:
   AT &C0 &D0 DT3352680
  &C0 = DCD forced on at all times.
  &D0 = Modem ignores status of DTR signal.
 I was able to download a bunch of picture & sound files, with no problems,
and this was using that second cable, the one with pins 6,7 & 9 not connected.
 I also was able to get on CIS at 300 baud, by adding %C0 to the string, which
,U
  I would still like someone to give the definitive answer on what pins go
where when going between a DB-9 and a DB-25. I don't know exactly why this
cable with pins 6&7 is working, but its the cable that came with the modem
and it only has 6 wires going to the DB-25 end, so I interpolated what
would go on the other end. It would be nice if I had the info on the Mac
xcat was on the other end.
 I'll see if I can get this to work on Delphi, now that it seems to be
working on CIS.

larry

-*-

84904 15-JAN 01:35 OSK Applications
     RE: 144e_help (Re: Msg 84869)
     From: LARRYOLSON   To: CBJ

 Carl,
   Thanks for the tip on giving the modem more time. That seems to be one
of the things that I wasn't doing.
   I'll keep you informed on how I make out.

 Thanks again
larry

-*-

84916 15-JAN 13:04 OSK Applications
     RE: 144e_help (Re: Msg 84866)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: LARRYOLSON (NR)

Larry,

  Go back to the first cable you have, the one with all 8 lines (ring is not
normally used). The pin connections are correct. If the cable is electricly
sound, it's exactly what you want.

  Just to make sure (I got this wrong once), the paddle board needs pins 1-2
and 5-6 strapped. Pin 1 and 2 are next to the cable connector, not the board
edge. If they are strapped the other way, the typical result is connecting,
then nothing.

  The only other thing I can think of is you may be hitting the first key too
soon. The typical 14.4 modem should work out of the box; default settings.
The typical connection goes:

  CARRIER  xxxx   (modem-modem speed)
    *speak is now off, long pause*
  PROTO: LAP/M   (or MNP, Alt, None, etc.)
  CONNECT  xxxx    (DTE, computer, speed)
    *now the connection is established and you can type the first char*

   Randy

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84879 14-JAN 00:19 General Information
     MM/1
     From: HPUNKS       To: ALL

I am looking for a buyer for my MM/1 system.  Call me for info at
1-908-454-5015 any time between 8am - 12 midnight. Ask for Peter.

-*-

84880 14-JAN 00:34 General Information
     terminal
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: ALL

Anyone have need for a VT220 terminal? Reply email..

                                                    -* Mike

-*-

84888 14-JAN 20:34 General Information
     graphing
     From: TMF          To: ALL

I have apt68k4 and I want to graph several different sets of data I would like
to
find some program to do this for me . Any help would be appreciated.
    TMF

-*-

84889 14-JAN 20:59 General Information
     RE: graphing (Re: Msg 84888)
     From: TJMARTIN     To: TMF

gnuplot (an eariler version) is available for 68K on cabrales Internet machine.

-*-

84939 16-JAN 00:06 General Information
     RE: graphing (Re: Msg 84889)
     From: TMF          To: TJMARTIN (NR)

thank you for the info

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84893 14-JAN 23:23 General Information
     Hi Speed number (Sprintnet/Tymnet)
     From: JSHEPLER     To: ALL

 Hi, all...

 I've heard from somewhere that there is a hispeed (>2400 baud) number
that I can call to connect to Delphi. It was either through sprintnet or
tymnet. Does anyone know how I can find out what (and if) there is a
local number (to me) that I can call to connect to Delphi at a higher
baud rate than 2400?

Thanks..

-Jeff

-*-

84896 14-JAN 23:37 General Information
     RE: Hi Speed number (Sprintnet/Tymnet) (Re: Msg 84893)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JSHEPLER

YEP!look under Using Delphi.....It is under test till the end of this MTH!
9600bd..I,ve been using it! only by Robbotic 14.4k modem is down right now
and back ......in the hands of the Makers..it was dialing and dropping off
line ......I use Tymnet.....and have a node right here....<grin>one just
dials up Tymnets user board....and looks up a node for your location
Dennis

-*-

84902 15-JAN 01:25 General Information
     RE: Hi Speed number (Sprintnet/Tymnet) (Re: Msg 84896)
     From: CJMORRIS     To: COCOKIWI (NR)

What is the number for Tymnets user board?  Would like to check it out.
Thanks,
John M.

-*-

84913 15-JAN 11:12 General Information
     RE: Hi Speed number (Sprintnet/Tymnet) (Re: Msg 84893)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: JSHEPLER

> I've heard from somewhere that there is a hispeed (>2400 baud) number
> that I can call to connect to Delphi. It was either through sprintnet or
> tymnet.
>
  I use Sprintnet myself.  Here's a number to call: 1 800 877 5045
It's a `voice mail' system now and will prompt you with what buttons
to press.. From the first `menu' use #5 data/packet info.. then follow
the prompts.

  BTW:  Sprintnet 9600 only works with V.32... NOT the V.42 stuff.

-
   John Baer
   johnbaer@delphi.com
   jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us

   *** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84901 15-JAN 01:22 General Information
     DMP-107
     From: CJMORRIS     To: ALL

Just picked up a DMP-107. No manual for it was included.  When I try to print
with it I get about 8 garbage characters in     n (about) the middle of the line

then
it goes to the next TOP. Can anyone help?  I think the logic board may have
gonesouth on me. :-(
Thanks,
John M.

-*-

84905 15-JAN 02:47 General Information
     RE: DMP-107 (Re: Msg 84901)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: CJMORRIS

John,

 > print with it I get about 8 garbage characters in     n (about) the middle
 > it goes to the next TOP. Can anyone help?  I think the logic board may

Perhaps the baud rate is incorrect?



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84910 15-JAN 08:47 General Information
     RE: DMP-107 (Re: Msg 84901)
     From: ALWAGNER     To: CJMORRIS

 Though I have no specific info on the DMP-107, I do have a book called
"How to use your Radio Shack printer." This contains info on a lot of the
older Rat Shack printers.  Again, the 107 is not specifically called out
 but the 100 is.  The 107 being a direct decendant, I am extrapolating the
data on the 100 to apply also to the 107.  The 100 had both a series and
a paralell port. The series port was capable of 600 or 1200 baud operation
Like Joel Hegberg suggested, the printer baud rate may not match your computer.
Do you know what yours is set to??  It was most likely controlled by a physical
switch, the location of which may be on the back or not so conveniently inside.
The 100 also had a graphics mode as well as a text mode.  From BASIC, chr$(18)
turned the graphics on and chr$(30) turned it off. Chr$(31) started elongation,
but no end is given.  I suspect it was chr$(30). Underline is turned on and off
by chr$(15) and chr$(14) respectively.  If I am reading the chart correctly, a
sequence of chr$(27),chr$(16),chr$(n) would move the print head to "n"
characters from the left.  There was also something called "repeat print data"
that was called with the sequence chr$(28),chr$(n1),chr$(n2).  Where "n1" is
the number of repeats and chr$(n2) is either the code for a printable character
or is replaced by the character itself in double quotes.  This could be used to
create a line of dashes or stars across a page with just a short command.

I hope some or all of this is helpful.

                                            AlWagner

-*-

84917 15-JAN 15:13 General Information
     RE: DMP-107 (Re: Msg 84901)
     From: ISC          To: CJMORRIS

John,

I have a DMP-107 with full docs.  The printer will print @ 600, 1200 and
2400 baud.  It has both a serial and a parallel interface.  The proper
cable for the printer from the CoCo serial port is Tandy stock #26-3020.

To run the printer self-test, with the printer off, hold down the ON/OFF
LINE switch.  Turn on the printer while still holding down the ON/OFF
LINE switch.  When the printer finishes initializing, release the ON/OFF
LINE switch.  The printer should then print the ASCII 96 characters pre-
programmed into the printer.  This will tell you if the printer logic
is OK.  The test will run continuously changing fonts until you press
the ON/OFF LINE switch again.

Correction to above:  only 2 baud rates are possible 600 and 2400.
In the front of the printer under the ribbon cartridge (remove the
ribbon cartridge) you will find a removable cover which should have
the baud rate and other switch settings printed on it.  The DIP
switches for setting these options are under this cover.

Let me know if you need any other help.  My voice number is (914)
339-0400

Bill

-*-

84937 15-JAN 21:40 General Information
     RE: DMP-107 (Re: Msg 84917)
     From: CJMORRIS     To: ISC

Bill,
Thanks for the help. After reading your message I checked the dip switches
and they were all set for 2400.  After that I tried the self test. It worked.
Then I booted the system and tried again.  It worked!  Not sure why it didn't
before but now it working.  And also thanks to the others who answered my
post.  To me it shows that we're a group worth supporting!
John M.

-*-

84938 15-JAN 23:31 General Information
     RE: DMP-107 (Re: Msg 84937)
     From: ISC          To: CJMORRIS

John,

Glad you're on the air with your DMP-107.  I find the printer slow, but
very capable.  It's not a bad DMP.

Good Luck.

Bill

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84912 15-JAN 10:01 OSK Applications
     Ghostscript
     From: JOHNREED     To: ALL

Just uploaded a new version of Ghostscript.  This is
version 2.6.1 (same as previous upload) with a new
KWindows color display driver.  The init files and
fonts from previous uploads are needed to run it.

If you want to see the "tiger.ps", "escher.ps" and
other color demos in all their glory, this will do
it.

NOTE - compiled with GCC on a 68340-equipped 9-meg
MM/1.  It SHOULD run on a 3-meg 68070 machine, but
I won't know for sure until someone tells me.



           John R. Wainwright

 <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

 *********** InfoXpress ************

-*-

84914 15-JAN 12:39 General Information
     problem with os9k
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ALL

I anyone aware of a known problem with using MS-DOS's DBLSPACE on a system
which is also running OS9K?

I have two hard drives now, a Conner 500M as drive C and a Seagate 120M
as drive D.

I have OS9K installed on drive D, which I can access and use just fine by
booting from the original installation floppy.

I can install MS-DOS on drive C and go back and for just fine.

UNTIL, I install DBLSPACE!!!! I can install DBLSPACE, create a compressed
drive E which uses free space on drive C and that works fine, UNTIL I then
boot OS9K with the installation floppy and run a directory command on /hd1.

With the VERY NEXT boot of MS-DOS, DBLSPACE refuses to mount drive E saying
it is too corrupted. And sure enough, the new 6.2 SCANDISK utility reports
all kinds of errors on BOTH drive C and E and the only recourse is to
reformat and start over with MS-DOS. OS9K's drive still appears to be
unaffected and working just fine.

Any thoughts, comments, ideas?

(Yes, I have just sent EMail to Microware's hotline, but don't expect a
reply until Monday or Tuesday.)


------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84948 16-JAN 12:33 General Information
     RE: problem with os9k (Re: Msg 84914)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: COLORSYSTEMS (NR)

I guess you answered the only comment I truly had, as you mentioned a "6.2
utility". I assume you have the 6.2 upgrade then. I use "Stacker" on mine, have
never had any problems to date, but don't have OS9K either. OS-2 also has a
problem with Stacker AND
DoubleSpace, only it doesn't mess up the drives... checks for the driver, then
if it finds it refuses to recognize the drive (a friend has OS-2 on his
machine.. had to buy a bigger drive because of all this!). OS9K obviously
doesn't check for the driver be
fore trying to read, and therefore corrupting, the compressed drive. Hope that
helps some! Stacker has released a version for OS-2, don't know if it works
with DOS and OS-2 though, might be something to look into.. maybe the
compressed drives are protected
 in some way, or use a different method of deginating whetehr the drive is
compressed or not???

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84915 15-JAN 12:39 General Information
     followup on os9k problem
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ALL

After playing a little more, I have come to the conclusion that DBLSPACE is
not helping to cause the problem I am having.

I re-installed DOS 6, and upgraded to 6.2, ran SCANDISK and all was well.

I booted up OS9K from the installation floppy and did the following:

tmode nopause
chd /hd1
dir -ure

The directory display runs for a second or so, and then returns the error:

dir: can't open "CMDS/BOOTOBJS". Error #000:219

You know, of course, that a 219 is an E_IBA, illegal memory block address.

I immediately rebooted DOS. Since I had not yet installed DBLSPACE, there
was no indication from the boot that there was a problem, but a manual
run of SCANDISK on drive C showed the same type of problem I was seeing
before. SCANDISK reports that the backup copy of the disk's FAT was wrong
and it reported that a file was reporting its size incorrectly.

I rebooted OS9K and tried the same commands as before, with IDENTICAL results,
the 219 error on CMDS/BOOTOBJS. This time I recalled the command with a ^A
and this time the 219 error occured when it was trying to open CMDS, ie,
the error message was

dir: can't open "CMDS". Error #000:219

Running a dir with no switches ran OK and displayed the files in the root
of /hd1, but any subsequent use of the -r switch gave the 219 error on
the CMDS directory. What is strange is this. I then did:

chd /d0
chd /hd1
dir -ure

and it worked perfectly!! All the way through the entire file structure!!

So, bottom line here is that just getting a SINGLE 219 error somehow corrupts
something on the C drive, but I have no way of predicting WHEN I will get
a 219 error, or what is causing it.

When I had just one 120M hd and it was partitioned 50/50, I ran and used
OS9K for weeks with no problems, that is, with the same 16M of memory I
am using now. The ONLY difference is that I have no OS9K partition on drive
C and all of drive D is an OS-9000 parition.


------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


-*-

84918 15-JAN 15:15 General Information
     os9 vs. unix
     From: ROYBUR       To: ALL

 i was recently asked how os9 compares with unix; the question was, "does os9
 handle multitasking better than unix?" i've never used unix so i couldn't
 answer, and i was wondering if anybody here would offer an opinion? thanx in
 advance! 8*)............roy

-*-

84923 15-JAN 15:52 General Information
     RE: os9 vs. unix (Re: Msg 84918)
     From: BANANAMAN    To: ROYBUR (NR)

I think it all depends on _which_ version of UNIX they're talking about.
There's so many of 'em.  Some are probably more efficient than OS-9, but
only because of the processors they're running on.  So far, though, I don't
think there are many better kernels out there.

-*-

84927 15-JAN 17:45 General Information
     RE: os9 vs. unix (Re: Msg 84918)
     From: JOHNREED     To: ROYBUR (NR)

 >  i was recently asked how os9 compares with unix; the question was, "does os9

 >  handle multitasking better than unix?" i've never used unix so i couldn't
 >  answer, and i was wondering if anybody here would offer an opinion? thanx in

 >  advance! 8*)............roy
 >

Ive never used UNIX either, but I did look it up in the Glossary
in the Microware OS9/68000 manual.  Apologies if you have seen
this before, but a direct quote like this it too good to pass
up.

 "UNIX:
     An operating system similar to OS-9, but with less functionality
     and special features designed to soak up excess memory, disk
     space and CPU time on large, expensive computers."

 It doesn't answer your question, but it might be fun to pass it
along.


           John R. Wainwright

 <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

 *********** InfoXpress ************

-*-

84928 15-JAN 18:25 General Information
     RE: os9 vs. unix (Re: Msg 84918)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: ROYBUR (NR)

I have used Linux on the PC, SCO UNIX, and Interactive, and I can tell you
that OS-9 as an OS, multitasks better than UNIX. I have used OS-9 on a
full blown CoCo (coco w/ 512k, rs232 pak, and HD) and UNIX on my PC (and
larger systems) and can tell you that as far as multitasking goes, OS-9
beats out UNIX when run on similar hardware platforms. I mean, of course
UNIX is gonna smoother on a 486-66 than on a 2mhz CoCo. However, try
running UNIX on a 2mhz machine.. it wouldnt even run, or walk, in fact
I dont even think it would crawl.. :) point being that it really depends
on the processor. however, if you compare OS-9/68k or OS-9000, to UNIX
our favorite OS wins out...

Now, if you are talking about running UNIX on a mainframe, well then..no
OS-9 doesnt hold a candle to it..but again, that is a hardware issue...

-*-

84929 15-JAN 18:50 General Information
     RE: os9 vs. unix (Re: Msg 84918)
     From: BROWN80      To: ROYBUR (NR)

I don't know if there is a fair answer to that question.  The two operating
systems come from different worlds.  OS-9 has come up from the smaller 6809
environment to more powerful machines and it has been designed for real time
applications.  Unix comes from machines that took up rooms and allowed time
sharing amoung many users but has trouble with real time applications.  I
thinks OS-9 does much better on smaller systems.  (easier for me anyway)  But..
I've been runing SCO Xenix V on a Compaq Deskpro 286 for 6 or 7 years with no
problems.  It runs several background tasks all the time as well as the console
and two terminals, a printer, and two communications lines.  It never has
given me any problems.
                                 John Brown

-*-

84945 16-JAN 09:04 General Information
     RE: os9 vs. unix (Re: Msg 84928)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)

I can agree with you on the UNIX/OS9 comparison. I have used OS9000, SCO
and also OS2 on the same 486 and OS9000 is far and away better and easier.
<Phil>

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84920 15-JAN 15:49 Telecom (6809)
     Telcom
     From: REVWCP       To: ALL

Dear friends:
I have developed a strange problem with my main COCO3 system.  Neither
Supercomm or OSTerm will work properly.  They will dial out, but when the
CD light on the modem comes on, the signal is not getting back to the program.
The RD light flashes, so i know that I am receiving data.  In fact when i logged

onto Delphi just now using our DisplayPhone ( a really nice piece of hardware).
[D  sorry earlier.  Yet nothing is
getting ech   (a few problems with this keyboard, it is VT100 and I'm logged on
as a COCO)    Anyway, notihin... sory nothing is being echoed to the screen.
a and T2 to see if that was the problem.  Same trouble.  I had a Puppo adqapter
hooked
up but I removed that and replace the stock keyboard.  I changed rs-232 paks...'

still the same...I changed modem cables...no change.

I am running out of ideas.  Help a monk!

With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User Group Treaserer
(Spelled that wrong too, backspace doesn't work right on this terminal and
Delphi)

-*-

84922 15-JAN 15:50 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84920)
     From: REVWCP       To: REVWCP

That last message is a bit garbled.  I made up a new boot disk and I
replaced Sacia and T2, no changes. --Jeremy

-*-

84924 15-JAN 15:55 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84922)
     From: BANANAMAN    To: REVWCP

Hmm.  Have you made any other system changes recently?  Or have you tried
formatting a disk, just to make sure it 'aint the blob?

-*-

84925 15-JAN 16:17 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84920)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: REVWCP

Wow, sounds like you changed out the most common problems. The next place I
would go is interupts. Possibly a dirty GIME socket, or an MPI problem. Hmmm,
how to test...

 If you have an auto-start ROMpak game, try putting this in the MPI, and
setting the switch to that slot. If it does not autostart on powerup, the

/cart line (irq source from mpi) is the likely problem. Clean GIME. :>

   Randy

-*-

84942 16-JAN 01:42 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84924)
     From: REVWCP       To: BANANAMAN

I formatted and cobbled a new disk.  Then I ezgenned in Sacia and T2.
Still no luck.

-*-

84943 16-JAN 01:44 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84925)
     From: REVWCP       To: RANDYKWILSON

There is no MPI, I have a Disto SC-11, 4-in-1 and a Tandy RS232 on a Y cable.
I'll try the other suggestions.

-*-

84946 16-JAN 09:09 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84943)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: REVWCP

Maybe it's a hardware problem Br. Jeremy. Do you have another Coco? <Phil>

-*-

84953 16-JAN 13:58 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84946)
     From: REVWCP       To: PHILSCHERER (NR)

Dear Phil:
The problem appears to be in the modem.  The carrier detect light goes on
but it wasn't getting through to the RS232 pak.  I have a Tandy Mini-Tester
on the line so I can see whats going on.  I changed modems and it seems to be
working.  I will have to check further.

With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User Group Treasurer

-*-

84956 16-JAN 15:12 Telecom (6809)
     RE: Telcom (Re: Msg 84953)
     From: REVWCP       To: REVWCP

Here's the latest, I went back to the Infotel Modem but I changed from the
RS232 pak to a COCOPRO modified ModemPak.  The software will not respond to
the CD light, but upon breaking out of the autologon part of Supercom, I
was able to complete the logon manually.
With all best wishes,
Brother Jeremy, CSJW
OS9 User's Group Treasurer

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84926 15-JAN 17:13 General Information
     MM/1
     From: HPUNKS       To: ALL

My MM/1 has been sold. please disregard message #84879.  Thanks!

-*-

84930 15-JAN 21:08 General Information
     OS-9 Underground v.2 no.1
     From: JEJONES      To: ALL

Gee.  I just got *OS-9 Underground* volume two, issue one.  Strikes me as
a milestone of a sort.  Glad to see it, and I look forward to volume two
issue one of the other magazines that have sprung up.

Opinions herein are those of their author, and not necessarily those of
any organization.

*** posted w/InfoXpress 1.1 ***

-*-

84933 15-JAN 21:25 General Information
     Model 4/P keyboard
     From: MROWEN01     To: ALL

I7m having atime trying to get some good downloads of the GIF fes in the
new uploads area. They are in lzh format. I'm using 1.0 of lzh for the
Coco 3. It works with other stuff, but when I try it on the downloaded
files I get CRC errors for each of the files in the lzh file. I used DED
to look at the files, but they're just nulls. Perhaps this is because the
lzh program creates them before the uncompressing. At any rate, I'm pulling
my hair out trying to get these files uncompressed. I even thought to do it
under RS-DOS, but I don't know of any lzh program for RS-DOS. I don't know
if the file here is damaged or what's going on. I'm using Supercomm to grab
this file. Its called m4kbd??.lzh (something like that). Any input is
appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

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84934 15-JAN 21:30 General Information
     RE: Model 4/P keyboard (Re: Msg 84933)
     From: JIMBM        To: MROWEN01

try lha211b in the utilites data base to uncompress those gifs

Jim M

P.S. lha211b is arcived with lzh

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84940 16-JAN 00:10 General Information
     RE: Model 4/P keyboard (Re: Msg 84934)
     From: MROWEN01     To: JIMBM

Thanks Jim! LHA did the trick. I was only looking for lzh as a search key
when searching for the latest lzh program.

-Mike

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End of Thread.

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