LIST
FILE ON
MARGIN IS 76 
STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
NUMBER OF LINES: 629 
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ******************** REMOVED: 3 DEC 83 ******************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24 
25 First off, Level 7 is by Mordecai Roshwald (or something like that). It 
26 contains many GLARING technical errors, but these don't detract too much. 
27 Anon: Yes, I did mean 100. I was refering to the AREA affected. The square 
28 cube law is a simple geometric relationship. If you increase the LINEAR
29 dimensions of something by N, all the AREAS involved will increase by N 
30 squared, and all the VOLUMES will increase by N cubed. The reverse also
31 holds true. Example: If a 6 foot man weighs 200 pounds, a 12 foot man will
32 have 8 times the volume & (assuming the same density) 8 times the weight.
33 As for fire damage, some authorities feel that we have less to fear from
34 firestorms than had previously been thought. Firestorms require a certain
35 amount of flammable material per block (or acre, sq foot, etc). Modern 
36 construction, especially in the suburbs, is thought to fall below this
37 level. There will still be massive fire damage, but the shock waves may 
38 actually help by putting out some of the outlying fires! 
39 Another point that needs to be cleared up is radiation damage. Someone was 
40 saying that radiation (not fallout!) from the blast would kill people far 
41 outside the fire & blast area. BULL****! If you are close enough to the
42 blast to recieve a lethal dose of X-Rays or Gamma rays, you would be fried
43 by the THERMAL radiation. (I am refering to "normal" weapons, not "neutron 
44 bombs"). By the way, most field commanders don't want the neutron bomb. A 
45 large percentage of the troops in a troop concentration large enough to 
46 use one on would recieve wouldn't recieve an IMMEDIATELY DISABLING dose. 
47 Many of them would be capable of fighting for several WEEKS before the 
48 effects became disabling. NO commander wants to face troops that KNOW they 
49 are dead already.
50 __________________________________Leonard___________________________________
51 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
52 ATTN:
53 BLANE HARTLEB
54 I KNOW WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING!
55 AND SOON SO WILL THE PARKROSE SCHOOL DISTRICT
56 START SWEATIN' CHUMP
57 YOUR HACKIN' DAYS ARE ALMOST OVER
58 <HEHE>
59 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
60 
61 
62 Personally, I really resent the current crop of juvinile criminals using
63 the term "hacker" to describe their actions. Hackers have been around a
64 long time, and the word comes from another slang word "hack", which means
65 "a simple, elegant solution to a bug in a program or hardware". These new
66 young computer users usually don't have much programming or engineering
67 knowlege, but they do have the same desire for vandalism that seems to
68 be present in many teenagers. Those that do have the knowlege have found
69 that there is much more fun to be found in the creation of software and
70 hardware than in the violation of on-line computers. If the above message
71 is true, I hope they hang that young pirate from the highest yardarm,
72 or perhaps a good keelhaul along the barnicles will enlighten him.
73 Remember children, you are PIRATES, not hackers, and your activities
74 are causing the entire computer field to become suspect.
75 
76                 /Elberich\
77 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
78 You have expressed my sentiments, too, Elberich.  Let us suggest that the
79 term "electronic vandals" be used:  the Vandals were indeed marauders, prone to wanton
80 destruction of things good, overzealously pillaging and stealing.  Maybe the
81 current crop of immature computer barbarians will disappear with time as
82 well.  Remember, you EV-types, you don't control yourselves,  someone else will
83 do it, and we will all lose self-determination and individuality because of
84 your thoughtless, though playful, acts.Dave
85 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
86 ================================================================
87  LUKE: CHECK DRIVE B FOR THE MESSAE I LEFT YOU. IT WILL BE FOUND RIGHT AFTER
88 THE MESSAGE YOU LEFT ME.
89                             BYTE!
90 ======================================-JODY-================================
91 
92 ========================================
93    I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE MESSAGE FROM ELBERICH ABOVE.
94 I HAPPEN TO BE A TEENAGE COMPUTER ENTHUSIAST BUT DO NOT ABUSE THE
95 POWER OF THE COMPUTER BY "VANDALIZING" OTHER SYSTEMS. RATHER, I
96 HAVE BECOME EXTREMELY INVOLVED WITH COMPUTER PROGRAMMING AND DO
97 FIND IT VERY SATISFYING TO REEP A GOOD PROGRAM FROM LONG-HARD
98 EFFORTS.  I WOULD BE OVERJOYED IF WE COULD GET KIDS(?) OFF THE LINES
99 WHEN THEY USE THEM FOR PURPOSES OF WREAKING HAVOC ON A COMPUTER
100 SYSTEM, POSSIBLY COSTING SOMEONE A LARGE SUM OF MONEY AND WORK.
101 IF WE COULD DIRECT THEIR ENERGY FROM "BREAKING IN" TO WRITING OR
102 LEARNING TO WRITE (AND OR DESIGN) GOOD SOFTWARE...
103                           ===ERIK===
104 ========================================
105 
106 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
107 
108 
109       * * *
110       * L *
111       * E *
112       * R *
113       * O *
114       * Y * * * *          * * *             * * *
115       *          *         * M   *         *     *
116       * * * * * *          * C *   *     *   *   *
117                            * K * *   * *  *  *   *
118                            * A *   *    *    *   *
119                            * N *      *      *   *
120                            * E *             *   *
121                            * * *             * * *
122 
123 
124                             graffitti by
125 
126 
127                                  LeRoy and the Jerks
128 
129 
130 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
131 ==============================================================
132 
133                       FORREAL IS NOT REAL
134 
135                            Plato
136 
137 ===============================================================
138 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
139 There is only one way to obtain real-time data about nuclear war....
140 The only varialble is what planet do we use (up)?
141 Who wants to find out THAT bad?
142                                        the Phantom Glitch
143 
144 v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^11/28/83v^19:12v^v^v^v^
145 From:  P.V. Jeltz
146 To: All
147 Subj. Hackers
148 Bravo to those who described their opinion of the 'hacker' issue.  The
149 first time I heard the phrase was when I went to a eastern science school,
150 one that you'd recognize if you heard the name.  There, the term 'hacker' 
151 didn't even necessarily relate specifically to computers.  You could be an
152 audio hacker and design stereo-type circuitry, a microwave hacker and do
153 things with that, or even a radio hacker. (Otherwise known as hams)  I was
154 an analog and digital circuit hacker, and at the time didn't care that much
155 about computers themselves.
156 The point is that the term 'hacker' has suffered two distortions in
157 the last few years.  First, it was viewed as referring only to computer-
158 types, and second, recently used to refer to the computer vandals.  I
159 don't think the term will ever recover it's original meaning, but I hope
160 that it at least will eventually lose all its negative connotations.
161 -------------- Circuitry hacker and proud of it--------- P.V. Jeltz------
162 WELL NOW!
163 I HAD TO BE AWAY FOR A FEW DAYS AND THOUGHT THE PARTY WOULD BE OVER BY 
164 NOW! I VOTE FOR THE PLACE ON HAYDEN ISLAND, SATURDAY AFTERNOON.
165 
166 WHERE ARE PAM AND DOM? ON ANOTHER BBS, MAYBE? I'M GONNA GET LOST HERE 
167 WITHOUT YOU FOR MY SOMETIMES ALLIES.
168 
169 AS TO THE SIZES OF WEAPONS:
170      1. THE AVERAGE TACTICAL WEAPON IS MEASURED IN KILOTONS, AND CAN BE
171 DELIVERED BY CANNON FIRE. THE AVERAGE STRATEGIC WEAPON IN MEASURED IN
172 MEGATONS. THE REASON RUSSIANS USE BIGGER ONES IS THAT THEIR BOOSTERS
173 ARE BIGGER AND CAN LIFT THEM, ALSO LESS ACCURATE AND NEEDING THE SIZE.
174 THE LARGEST WEAPON DETONATED SO FAR WAS OVER 4,000 MEGATONS, AND WAS
175 SET OFF BY THE RUSSIANS NORTH OF THE ARCTIC CIRCLE. IT RATTELED WINDOWS
176 IN MOSCOW. THE AVERAGE SIZE IS BROUGHT DOWN BY THE TACTICAL WEAPONS,
177 BUT THESE ARE NOT FOR USE ON CITIES.........
178 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
179 
180 
181 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
182 All right Leonard...way to pour it one with the facts. I too have heard
183 about the level of combusitble material being below what would be 
184 necessary for a fire storm ala Bresden and other WWII sights. But there
185 still is enough material for a nice warm fire. Also the location and
186 frequency of large quantities of flammable liquids(like gas stations and
187 chemical sites) doesn't help the situation any. I have seen Civil Defense
188 plans of the blast area in and around the Portland Metropolitan area. Of
189 course this map was old, and I can't remember the exact size or sizes of
190 the expected warheads, but the damage pattern was very scary. In this
191 case, everything is a 5 mile radius was utterly destroyed. There was some
192 relief to the west due to the location and heigth of the West Hills. 10
193 miles out, severe fire and shock wave damage. Out to 20 miles,
194 moderate damage. The center was some where along the west side of the
195 Willamette river. With the size of weapons today, we can probably increase
196 the kill radius a few miles. Skiers on Mt Hood would last a little
197 longer considering their location. Any more interesting things to share
198 with us oh guru of the bomb leonard?
199 ||||||
200 To Jody. Don't tell me the people in this band all have blonde hair too,
201 then I might think they are another Police. Until tomorrow.
202 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
203 
204 
205 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
206 
207      LEONARD, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU AS TO THE MOTIVES AND NATURE OF
208 THE SOVIETS, BUT I FIND THAT THE STATEMENT ABOUT HIROSHIMA TO BE CONTRARY
209 TO THE FACTS (THOUGH THE FACTS ARE LITTLE KNOWN DUE TO THE FEVER-PITCH
210 OF EMOTION INVOLVED).
211      THE UNITED STATES KNEW THAT THE END OF THE WAR AGAINST GERMANY
212 WOULD BRING THE USSR INTO THE WAR AGAINST JAPAN, AND FELT THAT THIS 
213 ENTRY WOULD FORCE JAPAN INTO CAPITULATION.  THE U.S. NAVY WANTED TO
214 STARVE JAPAN INTO SUBMISSION BY BLOCKADE, AND THE ARMY AIR FORCES ARGUED
215 FOR MASSIVE CONVENTIONAL BOMBING TO FORCE SURRENDER, BUT TRUMAN AND
216 GENERAL MARSHALL BELIEVED THAT UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER WOULD ONLY COME
217 ABOUT THROUGH TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF THE JAPANESE ARMY.  AS THE ONLY WAY
218 TO DESTROY IT WAS TO FIGHT IT, AN INVASION SEEMED THE ONLY OPTION.  IN
219 MARSHALL'S VIEW, IT WAS PREFERABLE TO HAVE THE RED ARMY SHED THEIR BLOOD
220 THAN AMERICANS TO DO SO.  AS TRUMAN PUT IT LATER "THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN
221 AGAINST JAPAN WAS BASED ON THE ASSUMPTION THAT WE WOULD NOT ATTEMPT TO
222 ENGAGE THE MASSES OF THE JAPANESE ARMY WITH OUR GROUND FORCES".
223      DURING THE LAST SIX MONTHS OF THE WAR, JAPAN KNEW IT WAS DEFEATED
224 AND WAS FIGHTING ONLY TO AVOID THE HUMILIATION OF UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER.
225 AS EARLY AS SEPTEMBER 1944, THE JAPANESE HAD APPROACHED THE SWEDISH
226 MINISTER IN TOKYO AS AN INTERMEDIARY TO SEE WHAT TERMS THEY COULD GET.
227 IN APRIL 1945, THEY ASKED THE SOVIETS FOR MEDIATION; THE RUSSIANS WERE
228 THEN ANXIOUS TO ENTER THE WAR AGAINST JAPAN AS SOON AS THEIR TROOPS WERE
229 READY, AND SO REFUSED IN ORDER TO HAVE A VOICE IN THE POST-WAR SETTLE-
230 MENTS IN ASIA.  THE UNITED STATES HAD LONG BROKEN THE JAPANESE CODES,
231 AND KNEW THEY HAD ONE CONDITION FOR SURRENDER: THAT THE EMPEROR WOULD
232 REMAIN.  THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HAD ALREADY AGREED AMOUNG THEMSELVES THAT
233 THE EMPEROR SHOULD STAY, SINCE HIS ELIMINATION WOULD BRING ON SOCIAL
234 CHAOS.  BUT FOR REASONS OF DOMESTIC MORALE AND POLITICS, THEY FELT IT
235 NECESSARY TO HUMILIATE JAPAN AND DECIDED NOT TO INFORM THEM OF THE U.S.
236 DECISION ABOUT THE EMPEROR.
237      WITH THE SUCCESSFUL TEST OF THE FIRST ATOMIC BOMB, THE U.S. DECIDED
238 THAT THEY COULD WIN THE WAR WITHOUT INVASIONS, AND ESPECIALLY WITHOUT
239 RUSSIA, WHO WOULD USE THE EVENT TO MAKE GAINS IN THE FAR EAST.  WHEN
240 JAPAN REJECTED THE POTSDAM DECLARATION (AS IT CONTAINED NO GUARANTEE
241 ON THE EMPEROR), TRUMAN GAVE THE ORDER TO DROP THE BOMB.  AFTER THE
242 SECOND BOMB WAS DROPPED, JAPAN STILL INSISTED ON THEIR CONDITION, AND
243 THE U.S. REALIZED IT WAS ALL THEY COULD GET, SO THEY ACCEPTED IT.
244      SO WHAT DID WE GAIN?  SINCE JAPAN'S ONE CONDITION FOR SURRENDER
245 AGREED WITH OUR OWN DESIRES (RETENTION OF THE EMPEROR), AN INVASION
246 SIMPLY WASN'T NECESSARY.  NEITHER HIROSHIMA OR NAGASAKI WERE MILITARY
247 TARGETS, SO IT DID NOT CHANGE THE MILITARY SITUATION.  THE BOMBS DIDN'T
248 CHANGE JAPANESE FEELINGS ABOUT UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER.  WHAT WE GOT WAS
249 AN OCCUPIED JAPAN **WITHOUT** THE RUSSIANS.  MY CONCLUSION?  THE BOMBS
250 WERE DROPPED IN ORDER TO SATISFY AN AMERICAN DESIRE FOR REVENGE FOR 
251 PEARL HARBOR, AND A NEED TO KEEP THE RUSSIANS OUT OF THE PACIFIC THEATRE,
252 NOT TO SAVE AMERICAN LIVES.
253 
254      HROTHGAR, I'VE BEEN ON THE SYSTEM TOO LONG NOW (AND TAKEN UP TOO
255 MUCH SPACE), SO I'LL COMMENT LATER.  BUT ARE YOU RELATED TO THE ANCIENT
256 KING HROTHGAR THAT BUILT HEOROT?
257 
258 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
259 
260 P.S. MY SOURCES ARE:
261 "ATOMIC DIPLOMACY" BY GAR ALPEROVITZ (SIMON AND SCHUSTER, NEW YORK 1965)
262 "THE POLITICS OF WAR: THE WORLD AND UNITED STATES FOREIGN POLICY, 1943-1945"
263    (BY GABRIEL KOLKO, RANDOM HOUSE, NEW YORK 1968)
264 "AMERICA, BRITAIN, AND RUSSIA: THEIR CO-OPERATION AND CONFLICT, 1942-1946"
265    (BY WILLIAM H. MCNEILL, OXFORD UNIVERSITY PRESS, 1953)
266 
267 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
268 
269 ----------------------------------------------------------------
270  Luke: no, they are not all blonde. In fact.. the lead singer is a red-head.
271 If you have ever seen the group Fastway.. the lead singer of that group look
272 s alot like Jordan, the lead singer of this group (the one with with red
273 hair). They all worked at th same place and then decided to be a band. They 
274 are talented. They are hardly another Police. They are more like another 
275 Iron Maiden. But.... thats another story on another BBS.
276 
277 -----------------------------------------=jody=-----------------------------
278 ***************************************************************
279 
280           LEROY: GOOD TO SEE YOU'RE STILL WITH US.
281 
282                          BIG BILL BROOZY
283 
284 ***************************************************************
285 PAM:My info differs slightly from yours, mainly in regard to Japan's 
286 willingness to surrender (specifically, the military's willingness). 
287 Apparently they were planning to fight it out inch by inch if there was an 
288 invasion.  In any case, the "normal" arguments regarding Hiroshima &
289 Nagasaki are that we should have either not used them at all (invade) or 
290 that we should have arranged a demonstration somewhere. By the way, if they 
291 were so ready to surrender, why did they wait until after the SECOND bomb?  
292 (in case you are interested Hiroshima WAS a military target because of its 
293 shipyards (as i recall) & Nagasaki was a major harbor))
294 
295 ALL:as I said before, no matter where you stand on disarmament or what you
296 believe the results of a "full-scale nuclear exchange" would be AS LONG AS 
297 THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY THAT EVEN _ONE_ NUCLEAR DEVICE MIGHT BE USED we 
298 must be prepared to protect ourselves. I'm not talking retaliatory strikes 
299 or anything like that I'm talking CIVIL DEFENSE! How many of you have any 
300 better idea than the people in "The Day After" as to what to do if either:
301 A.there exists a strong possibility of an attack (to use TDA as an example,
302 when fighting broke out in Germany)
303 B.you KNOW an attack is coming/has been launched (say when the silos fired)
304 C.there has just been a "nearby" detonation (say 5-50 miles)
305 D.after they stop going off
306 
307 That is the kind of thing I would RATHER discuss. I have some answers & can 
308 at least suggest where to look for SOME of the others. I suspect that some
309 of you know things I don't on this subject. Look at it this way, if Sagan & 
310 friends are right - then we'll all die,  BUT WHAT IF THEY ARE WRONG? I'd 
311 rather go out TRYING to survive than just laying down & giving up. And no, 
312 I'm NOT one of those "survivalist nuts" (those people bear the same
313 relationship to "real" survivalists that the "Milwaukee raiders" do to "real
314 " hackers). For those of you who are worried about nuclear safety, well some
315 the info will be useful for you too. 
316 ............ Now, any questions?.......................
317 (ps to PAM:  Please no more arguing about WWII, I accept your statements & 
318 will have to read those books. I merely clarified a couple of points. My 
319 info came from a published interview with a retired officer who had been in 
320 on the planning)
321 ________________________________Leonard_____________________________________
322 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
323  a weary (though refreshed) traveler returns.... 
324 
325  hello! SF was Beautiful (capital B)! couldn't call the BW, didn't have the
326 time/inclination to track down a terminal, though i guess i could have used
327 the ones at UC Berkely or LH of S. I see that the inn has returned to its common
328 level of entropy (GO DUCKS OFF EXIT HELP.....); and a note to all prospec-
329 tive Aaron-BBS types (system was named last night in a rap session with Sysm
330 , "UNICOM" is the Official System Name now...not an acronym.. who said i 
331 have to play by the rules! ), the system software will be written by Dec 20,
332 if Ma Bell can get my phone lines in UNICOM (or a better name if stumble 
333 across one (unlikly) ) will be up before the new year (at least a week
334 or two before for testing)...............
335 
336                                   HELP!
337    UNICOM needs an archive medium! if you have a paper tape punch/reader
338   (any speed/interface (or lack thereof) OK ) or have a lead on one, please
339   leave me a note on the system (or any other (real) system). Projected
340   on-line date for UNICOM is Jan 1, so if i dont have anything better, i
341   will use an ASR-33 (10 cps! ARRRGGH! ).                      ---thx
342                                   HELP!
343 
344 whats the status of the BWMS not-a-pizza party? did anyone find out if the
345 H.Isle. place is OK? TRI-METable? how about Veritable Quandry? Darwins Thry?
346 
347                                   HELP! (contd.)
348    UNICOM is a system designed to channel the great potential/power of a telecom
349   environment through a powerful yet simple user interface and structure.
350   ALL input as to what UNICOM should do/be will be welcomed. Do you have a 
351   favorite feature/convienience you would like to see incorporated into the
352   system? Something you would like to see left out? What critera should I
353   use to screen prospective members? Since i will not censor message content
354   (intrinsic or extrinsic) (i hope), the selection of who is/is not in is
355   important. Maybe a "performance review" on the users every month combined
356   with lax membership criteria? Or very strict member selection instead. You
357   help me decide. 
358                                   HELP!
359 
360                                                       Aaron
361 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
362 [][][][][][][][][][]   1344   11/29/83   [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
363 LEONARD - THANKS FOR THE TITLE.  I NEW THE ERRORS WERE THERE, BUT I THINK THAT
364 THE BOOK WILL SERVE ITS PURPOSE.
365 AARON - I THINK THAT SCREENING SHOULD BE YOUR WHIMSY.  YOU OWN THE SYSTEM, AND
366 MAY PLAY GOD IF YOU DESIRE.  I FEEL THAT YOU WILL HAVE BETTER LUCK IF YOU DO
367 NOT TRY TO PROD THE SYSTEM INTO ONE MOLD OR ANOTHER. (I AM CURRENTLY FINDING
368 OUT THAT A BBS WITH A STATED PURPOSE OR AUDIENCE HAS A LIMITED AMOUNT OF USE)
369 GOOD LUCK.  
370 
371 PAM: GOOD TO HEAR FROM YOU AGAIN.  TINYTEXT IS THE MOST POPULAR DL.  THANKS 
372 AGAIN.  OTHERS SOON.
373 
374 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   DJJ   [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
375 
376 llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
377                                   A king without a sword./ A
378           land without a king./ A truth without
379           a voice./ One song left to sing.
380 
381               A wise man told me there is 
382           something you should know: the way you
383           judge a man is you look into his soul,
384           and you'll soon see everything.
385    
386        A voice from the past cried:
387           Give peace a chance. He payed our price,
388           now he is free at last. And imagine...
389                 they called him a dreamer.
390 
391               How many times must good men die?
392           And how many times must the childred cry?
393           Till they suffer no more sadness. Stop the
394           madness.
395 
396               If ashes are ashes and dust is dust
397           at our journey's end, then return we must
398           to sands of the shore.
399 
400               White doves flight./ Peace to all./
401           But tell me why / the peacemakers fall./
402           Must we bury any more?
403 
404               The hush of the crowd as the horse rode 
405           by. A black lace veil hid the tears from 
406           our eyes, and we wept in silence.
407 
408               How many times must good men die? And
409           how many times will the children cry till 
410           they suffer no more sadness? Stop all the
411           madness. Oh, stop all the madness.
412 
413 lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll merlyn llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
414 
415 *******************************************************************
416 Leonard: Though Hiroshima or Nagasaki being military targets is debatible,
417 the bombs were targeted to KILL people, not destroy property as is generaly
418 the intention of a military target. People killing is not something that
419 military people want to do particularly cilvilians. The reason is very simple
420 anything you do the enemy will follow suit. However in the case of Japan,
421 the bombs were MENT to kill people. The intention being to show them that
422 we had the bomb, and were willing to use it. While the desire for revenge 
423 is debatible also, I am sure myself it was a factor in the decision. The
424 hatred of Japan was VERY intense at the time. Though I consider the use of
425 the bomb on cilvilian people to be abondible, it did serve as an example
426 to the world what it could do. Without this, I don't think we would have
427 the concern that we have today, because it showed what can happen to real
428 people, not just soldiers which everyone considers to be expendible.
429 As far as your feeling that we should learn and be prepared for all
430 possibilities in regard to the bomb, I agree very strongly. As Kissinger
431 said, the bomb is here to stay, we cannot 'unlearn' it. That means that
432 there will always be the possiblity of some terorist group making one, or
433 even an unfreindly country. (Germiny was well on the way to making one
434 befor the end stuck them.) And that means that we must KNOW what to do
435 if it does happen, not just the total destruction that everyone is babbling
436 about, but even just one teeny little bomb. The more lives that can be save
437 by forknowledge of what to do is important! To just wail and moan about
438 total destruction of the world is to insure the loss if something minor
439 happens.
440 Someone up there mentioned that there was lots of gas stations that would
441 add fuel to any firestorm created. This is not the case, there is a very good
442 reason why the laws require that tanks be underground, it is for just that
443 very sort of thing. (It doesn't matter what the source of the fire, it can be
444 a 'normal' massive fire as happens periodically. I would be more worried
445 if I lived in NW portland where the tank farm is. But the aspects of firestorms
446 are well known, since there have been several disasters caused by such things
447 The most spectacular in a Texas shipping port which almost totally destroyed
448 the port, but not the whole town. Firestorms have to have lots of combustibles,
449 or they die out of their own acord. There is nothing new to this, nature was
450 doing such things long before man stuck his stick in to stir things up.
451 Hrothgar: Are you sure about the 4000MT? The last time I was privy to that
452 type of information, they were having trouble making the 100MT work (re:
453 my previous rant). I admit that was some time ago, but given the type of
454 problem encountered, (selfdestruction) I find it hard to beleive that they
455 could have moved on to 4000MT. The amount of material needed to make that
456 big a bomb would be prohibitive anyway, so even if it were built, it would
457 be more a curiosity then of any major use. Ten or twenty 20MT bombs would be
458 far more usfull.
459 PAM: I was very impressed with your last entry to this melay! And I applaud
460 you. CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP (Pesky little beggers)........
461 Aaorn: I like the name you came up with. But be carfull about being too
462 restrictive on your board, or it may be stillborn as a BBS. If you want
463 to keep it private, then this will work, but if you want it to be 
464 dynamic and exciting you must allow new blood to circulate thru it.
465 ************ CISTOP MIKEY *********** 11:11PM ******* 29 NOV 83 ***********
466 
469 
470 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
471 and now a moment of sex...
472 
473 
474 
475 alright, you can stop now.
476 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
477 ................................................................
478  TO THE ABOVE: DID YOU THINK THAT WAS LONG ENOUGH??
479 
480 TO ALL PARTY GOERS: I THINK WE SHOULD WAIT A OCOUPLE OF WEEKS TO SEE IF DOM SHOWS UP.
481 ANY COMMENTS OR DISAGREEMENTS??
482 
483 ..............................................JODY......................
484 
485 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
486 
487   TO THE ABOVE: IT WAS LONG ENOUGH FOR ME.
488 
489 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
490 Mikey:I think that a 4000 Mton (4 Gigaton!!) bomb would have been VERY obvious!
491 A quick calculation shows that the cavity formed by the blast (assuming
492 that it was underground) would be 1600 meters!! That's almost a mile. To keep it
493 from "blowing thru" it would have had to have at least 1/2 a mile of rock above 
494 the cavity. I also suspect that there would be a MAJOR earthquake, followed 
495 shortly by a large volcano. If it was a (horrors!) SURFACE blast the CRATER
496 would be about 20 MILES in diameter. HOLD EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
497 I just rechecked my figures AND THOSE DIAMETERS ABOVE WERE REALLY RADII! That 
498 means that an underground test would almost certainly either blow thru OR 
499 puncture the "Mohorovicic discontinuity" (moho for short). This would cause more
500 havoc than I care to imagine! NO ONE would even THINK about testing anything
501 that big on their own territory. (I get "all exposed personnel wounded and out
502 of action" at more than 250 miles when I tried to figure the effects 
503 by extrapolating from my weapons effect chart. It might be over 500! Personnel 
504 casualities seem to go up a bit faster than square cube would indicate, but I 
505 stuck with the "straight" cube factor.)
506 _______________________________________Leonard__________________________________
507 
509 HERES A NEET PROGRAM FOR APPLE USERS WITH MICROMODEM II'S IN SLOT 2
510  
511 10  POKE 34,0
512 20  REM  ** VAR INIT **
513 30 D$ =  CHR$ (4): REM ** CTRL-A
514 40 Q$ =  CHR$ (17): REM ** CTRL-Q
515 50  REM  CA = NUMBER OF CALLS
516 60  REM  CN = CURRENT NUMBER
517 70  REM  CC = NUMBER OF COMPUTERS
518 80  REM  CS=CALL START #
519 90  REM  CE=CALL END #
520 100  REM  ** TITLE **
521 110  HOME 
522 120  INVERSE : PRINT "----------------------------------------": NORMAL 
523 130  HTAB 13: PRINT "COMP-SEARCH"
524 140  PRINT 
525 150  PRINT "NUMBER OF CALLS    :";CA
526 160  PRINT "NUMBER OF CONTACTS :";CC
527 170  PRINT "START NUMBER       :";CS
528 180  PRINT "CURRENT NUMBER     :";CN
529 190  PRINT "END NUMBER         :";CE
530 200  PRINT 
531 210  INVERSE : PRINT "----------------------------------------": NORMAL 
532 220  POKE 34,12
533 230  GOSUB 650
534 240  REM  ** CALL ROUTINE **
535 250  POKE 1921 + 2,138
536 260  FOR PH = CS TO CE
537 270  VTAB 13
538 280 CA = CA + 1
539 290  PRINT D$;"PR#2"
540 300  PRINT Q$;PH
541 310  POKE 2042,9
542 320  IF  PEEK (1656 + 2) > 127 THEN 350
543 330  FOR I = 1 TO 2000: NEXT :CN = PH:CN = CN + 1
544 340  GOTO 490
545 350  REM  ** HANG UP **
546 360  PRINT D$;"PR#2": PRINT  CHR$ (26)
547 370  PRINT D$;"PR#0"
548 380  REM  ** DATA WRITE **
549 390  PRINT D$;"OPEN CONTACTFILE,S6,D2"
550 400  PRINT D$;"CLOSE CONTACTFILE"
551 410  PRINT D$;"APPEND CONTACTFILE"
552 420  PRINT D$;"WRITE CONTACTFILE"
553 430  PRINT CN
554 440  PRINT D$
555 450  PRINT D$;"CLOSE CONTACTFILE"
556 460 CC = CC + 1
557 470  FOR I = 1 TO 2000: NEXT :CN = PH:CN = CN + 1
558 480  GOTO 490
559 490  REM  ** DISPLAY **
560 500 H = 21: REM   HTAB     
561 510 V = 5: REM   VTAB   
562 520  VTAB V: HTAB H: PRINT CA
563 530  VTAB V + 1: HTAB H: PRINT CC
564 540  VTAB V + 2: HTAB H: PRINT CS
565 550  VTAB V + 3: HTAB H: PRINT CN
566 560  VTAB V + 4: HTAB H: PRINT CE
567 570  POKE 34,12
568 580  NEXT PH
569 590  HOME 
570 600  VTAB 13
571 610  PRINT "*****************"
572 620  PRINT "* JOB COMPLETED *"
573 630  PRINT "*****************"
574 640  END 
575 650  REM  ** START/STOP NUMBERS **
576 660  PRINT 
577 670  INPUT " START PHONE # :";CS
578 680  PRINT 
579 690  INPUT " END PHONE #   :";CE
580 700  HOME 
581 710  RETURN 
582 
583  SEE WHAT YOU CAN FIND 
584 <V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V>^<V> ** THE MADD HACKER ** <V>^<V>^
585 The preceeding program was confidential material.  Please destroy yourself 
586 before hanging up the phone.
587 **************************************
588 *** Commodore Hackers: VIC-VIC
589 *** C-64. Anyday after 7:15PM. I will
590 *** be in "A" mode and will answer 
591 *** with my modem. 244-xxxx. Metzger
592 *** Bill (Party Patrol) HCKR,STNR
594 **************************************
595 ~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~
596 If we could just find a leader-
597 type in our midst, we could get
598 this get-together off the ground!
599 Volunteers, step forward, PLEASE!
600 ~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~**~
601 [][][][][][][][][]   1437   11/30/83 []
602 MIKEY:  WHAT HAS HAPPENED WITH THE 
603 ARCHIVE COPIES?  I AM STILL
604 INTERESTED.  THANKS.
605 [][][][][][][][][]   DJJ   [][][][][][]
606 
607 ````````````````````````````````````''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
608 Aaron, please don't make your bbs private. Imagine the world all speakers
609 and no listeners.  All writers and no readers.  All thinkers and no doers.
610 
611                                         George Lurker
612 p.s. Or egads, even worse,
613 All inhailers and no exhailers!!!!!
614 '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''``````````````````````````````````
615 
616  ^M    ^L  ^M^!
617 We're gonna need a new disk mighty soon...............
618 Please do adopt a privacy option incorporating passwords. There are obviously
619 times when a feeling or thought may need to be expressed that is not 
620 comfortably expressed in a public forum. Surely the flow of ideas
621 will continue unchanged by the addition of the opportunity
622 to communicate on a more personal and intimate level. This
623 would suit many of us.
624 
625 
626 ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''```````````````````````````````````
627 
628 The above must need privacy, they don't even use their name.
629 The last line.  George Lurker ````````````````````````````````````

