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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ********************* REMOVED: 19 OCT 83 ***************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
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14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24 
25 ########################################D.J.J. :
26 SO YOU THINK CONSERVATISM IS THE BUSINESS OF MAKING LARGER STICKS. IF THIS IS 
27 TRUE THEN CONSIDER THE GARDENER WITH A ZUCCINI PLANT: HE CAN PICK THE FRUIT WHEN
28 IT IS RIPE AND EDIBLE OR HE CAN LEAVE IT ON THE VINE TILL IT IS SO LARGE THAT IT
29 CANNOT BE OF ANY USE TO ANYONE SAVE A MENTION AT THE LOCAL FAIR. I DON' FIND 
30 THIS TO BE THE CASE HOWEVER. WHAT USUALLY HAPPENS IS THEY PICK THE FRUIT TOO 
31 SOON AND CHARGE A TOTALLY RIDICULOUS PRICE FOR IT. THIS IS OF COURSE THE OTHER
32 EXTREME. CONSERVATIVES ARE FAMOUS FOR THEIR EXTREMES. LIBERALS ON THE OTHER HAND
33 ARE USUALLY INTERESTED IN THE WELFARE NOT ONLY OF THE MASSES BUT OF THE GARDENER
34 TOO. PICK YOUR FRUIT WHILE IT IS AT ITS PEAK, NOT TO SOON NOR TOO LATE, GET A 
35 FAIR PRICE FOR YOUR LABORS. THIS ISN'T ALWAYS THE CASE BUT THEN WHEN IS SOME-
36 THING EVER TRUE TO ITS COURSE. AS TO THE MATTER OF LUCK. YOU SHOULD DO A LITTLE
37 REASEARCH INTO THE SUBJECT. LUCK IS DEFINATELY A VIABLE ITEM IN TODAYS WORLD. NO
38 ONE MAKES IT ON HIS OWN. I DON'T CARE HOW HARD YOU WORK, YOU WILL ALWAYS HAVE
39 OTHERS TO CREDIT FOR YOUR SUCCESS AND IF YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE THAT THEN I PITTY
40 YOUR SELF-CENTERED LITTLE MIND, AND UN-
41 GRATEFUL ATTITUDE IN LIFE. 
42 SORRY, I SHOULD NOT HAVE USED THE WORD PITY AS IT DOES NOT APPLY IN YOUR CASE. 
43 CONTEMPT! YES THATS A BETTER DISCRIPTION OF MY FEELINGS TOWARD YOUR "CONSERV-
44 ITIVE VIEWS AND MENTAL ABILITY"
45 
46 ################C.Y.M.#################################10/14 9:54AM#############
47 I hate to tell you this, but the attitudes of most "liberals"
48 seem to be closer to DJJ's appraisal than to yours. As for "conservatives"
49 don't assume that what he is calling a conservative is what you are
50 calling a conservative. (by the way, I was NOT attributing anything to
51 you, after replying to one of your comments I broke the text &
52 started a general comment. Sorry if the break wasn't clear enough)
53 I don't agree that all "conservatives" meet DJJ's description, but
54 anyone who does will probably wind up being labeled a "conservative".
55 Too many "liberals" are best described by the attitude "all men are
56 equal" with the unspoken corrolary "if they aren't then we'll MAKE them 'equal'"
57 One of the prime "liberal" "achievments" are the equal opportunity
58 laws. I'm all for equal opportunity, I've gotten rejected for jobs
59 for no "real" reason myself. But the "liberals" seem to think that
60 "equal opportunity" will mean "equal success", thus the various
61 quota systems (and the Bakshi decision etc). I'm sorry, we AREN'T
62 EQUAL!!! Everyone is better than other people at some things and
63 worse at others. The spirit of "all men are created equal" is best
64 served by recognizing that ABILITY is the only way to judge someone's
65 fitness for a job. Unfortunately, all we are going for is equal
66 numbers (sorry "proportionate"). I have heard of cases where a job
67 CANNOT be filled under the federal guidelines because NONE of the
68 qualified persons belonged to a minority & the company didn't
69 have "enough" minority workers. This has, on occasion, resulted in
70 hiring a "token" minority person to "front" for an assistant who
71 really does the work. 
72 I'm not about to claim that the "typical conservative" is better,
73 but they aren't much worse. The "conservatives" have caused many
74 problems, but the "liberals" show a real talent(?) for coming up
75 with solutions that are worse than the original problem! Civil service regs
76 are an example. There was a problem- getting good workers for government
77 jobs - does anyone think that the "solution" is working better?
78 Or, if you think that taxing the rich at higher rates to provide
79 for the poor is a workable idea, I suggest you check into the situation
80 in Britain or Sweden (a few years ago there was a news item regarding
81 the "unintentional" effect of a new Swedish tax law, it made the
82 tax rate for people earning above a certain amount 105%!). People
83 are leaving both countries because success in business (or whatever)
84 is actively penalized by the tax structure. I can see reasons for
85 a Minumum income below which you don't have to pay taxes or even
86 a "negative income tax" that would encourage people below the
87 "minimum" to try to earn money. But why DIS-courage people from
88 making money, after all, even at a "flat-rate" tax the more they
89 make the more the government gets. 
90 I could go on about other "liberal" idiocies, but why bother? one
91 of the traits of these self-proclaimed "liberals" is that they
92 seem to feel that anyone who can't see how "right" they are is
93 is stupid or else cynically trying to stop them for personal gain.
94 ("Obviously", I have something to gain from suppressing minorities
95 & exploiting tax loopholes, etc or I would be arguing against these
96 "good & beneficial" liberal policies) (by the way, does anyone
97 out there remember the story of the farmer who tried to save money
98 by feeding his donkey less?)
99 _______________________________Leonard__________________________
100 
101   DEAR SIR 
102 
103       AS TO YOUR ADDITUDE TOWARDS LIBERALS  I BLEAVE YOU HAVE MADE A VERY 
104 GOOD POINT. IN FACT THE PROCES OF MACKING ALL PEOPLE "EQUAL" THE PEOPLE ALOWYS L
105 LOUSE OUT IN THE END.  IF A SCOITEY IS ALL EQUAL AND THE
106 SAME THEN IT RUNS THE RISK OF BECAOMING STAGINET AND
107 DIEING IN IT'S OWN FILTH.  
108 
109 SENCERLY
110 MA YUAN
111 P.S. PARDON THE SPELLING
112 
113 YOU ASSHOLES REALLY GET INTO YOUR ARGUMENTS ABOUT LIBERALS AND CONSERV
114 VEAS WHY DONT YOU CYUT THE BULLSHIT AND ENTER NORMAL MESSAGES LIKE
115 EVERY ONE ELSE eg. FOR SALE or NEED HELP WHAT YOU GUYS ARE DOING IS PURE
116 UNEQUALED BULLSHIT.
117                 THE SCRIBBLER LIVES ON!!!!!
118 
119 
120 }[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]                                                                               
121 WELL, THIS ARGUMENT IS GETTING A LITTLE VIOLENT, SO I THINK I WILL STAY 
122 OUT OF IT FOR NOW.
123      MIKEY, I'M GLAD TO KNOW THAT I WAS MISSED!  THE LAST 2 WEEKS HAVE
124 BEEN HARROWING TO SAY THE LEAST, AND I  WAS NEARLY LOST IN MORE WAYS THAN 
125 ONE.  I PEEKED IN A FEW TIMES, BUT  THE TOPIC WAS TAXES, AND I'VE SAID
126 ALL I WANTED TO ON THAT ONE, AND NOBODY WAS SAYING ANYTHING NEW, SO I 
127 JUST KEPT QUIET.  THIS CONVERSATION IS  GETTING OUT OF HAND, WITH EACH    
128 SIDE ATTEMPTING TO DEFINE THE OTHER IN A WAY THAT IS THE MOST INSULTING.  
129 NOT MUCH IS GOING TO BE ACCOMPLISHED AT THIS RATE UNLESS SOME OF YOU ARE
130 WILLING TO GET BACK TO THE SUBJECT, AND GET AWAY FROM THE NAME-CALLING.
131 OH, YES, TO THE PERSON WANTING THIS BBS TO BE A "FOR SALE" TYPE BOARD, IF 
132 YOU HAVE SOMETHING FOR SALE, TELL US! I DON'T, SO DON'T EXPECT ME TO PUT  
133 THAT SORT OF MESSAGE ON.  YOU MAY THINK THAT ALL OF THIS IS "BULLSHIT"    
134 (TO USE YOUR EUPHEMISM), BUT I DON'T. I FIND THIS BOARD TO BE AN UNIQUE   
135 METHOD TO EXCHANGE IDEAS, ONE THAT CAN'T BE FOUND ELSEWHERE.  WHEN YOU    
136 PLACE YOUR IDEAS HERE, THE ONLY THING   THAT MATTERS IS YOUR ABILITY TO
137 EXPRESS THEM, AND WHAT THEY ARE. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS.  IF YOU DON'T WANT 
138 ANYONE TO KNOW YOUR AGE, GENDER, RACE,  RELIGION, HEIGHT, LOOKS, ETC.,
139 YOU ARE SAFE.  ALL THAT MATTERS IS YOUR IDEAS.  SO, WAKE UP AND LET US
140 HEAR SOMETHING FROM YOU!   WELL,  OTHER THAN "BULLSHIT" THAT IS.          
141                                                                              
142 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM![][][][][][]
143 P.S. THANKS AGAIN, MIKEY, ITS NICE  TO  BE WANTED!                         
144                                                                            
145 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
146 
147 
148 TO: THE SCRIBBLER
149 RE: SUBJECT MATTER
150 
151 I THINK THIS BULLETIN BOARD HAS A WELL DEFINED PURPOSE, THE PROMOTION OF INTERACTION AND SHARING.  I AM TRULY SORRY
152 THAT YOU FEEL THE NEED FOR ANOTHER 'FOR SALE' TYPE BULLETIN BOARD.  I HOPE YOU CONTINUE TO AT LEAST READ, HOWEVER.
153 SINCERELY,
154 DJJ
155 
156 
157 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
158 TO:  CYM
159 RE:  CURRENT TOPIC
160 
161 I DO NOT SAY THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN HELPED IN MY SUCCESS BY OTHERS, BUT RATHER THAT I HAVE NOT BEEN DEFEATED BY 'BAD BREAKS'
162 NOR MADE BY 'GOOD BREAKS'.  MY MAIN POINT IS THAT LUCK IS HIGHLY OVERRATED.  IN YOUR REPEATED REFERENCE TO SINGLE 
163 EXAMPLES NOT BEING WORTHY OF MENTION, I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE.  IT IS THE VERY FACT THAT SO MANY CAN SUCCEED AGAINST
164 SEEMINGLY IMPOSSIBLE ODDS THAT SHOW WITHOUT QUESTION WHAT AN AVERAGE PERSON CAN DO AGAINST NORMAL ODDS SUCH AS BIRTHRIGHT
165 OR LACK OF EDUCATION OR LACK OF CAPITAL OR ETC.  I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW A PERSON FROM AN OPPRESSED COUNTRY MIGHT HAVE A CASE,
166 BUT THIS IS THE UNITED STATES, WHERE INDIVIDUAL INITIATIVE HAS NOT BEEN LEGISLATED AWAY.
167 I ACKNOWLEDGE THE HELP I HAVE RECEIVED FROM A MULTITUDE OF PEOPLE, YOURSELF INCLUDED.  WITHOUT SUCH INPUT TO SPARK MY
168 MIND, IT WOULD BE A DULL PLACE INDEED.
169 
170 LASTLY, AN APOLOGY.  I HAVE HAD SOME MALICE EVIDENT IN MY COMMUNICATION.  I ASSURE YOU IT WAS NOT INTENTIONAL, AND 
171 CERTAINLY NOT PERSONAL.  I WILL WATCH MYSELF IN THE FUTURE.  I AM VERY SORRY IF YOU FELT A PERSONAL ATTACK.
172 
173 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   DJJ   [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]  1324  13-OCT-84
174 
175 everyone here seems to think there are only two kinds of people, liberals and conservatives. I consider myself to be 
176 of the road. I have many conservative views but consider myself liberal in many ways.
177 It is disapointing that the political party system ibn this country has polarized itself.
178 There are very few politicians who are truly middle of the road. If they are they are penalized by their respective 
179 party. John Glenn comes close to being in the middle but he will probably no get the nomination because the old time
180 democratic liberals will keep him from it
181 and elect mondale. This is evidenced by the recent mondale endoresment by the afl-cio.
182 ###################DSS##################
183 
184 
185 Hiya, d. Back again.  'Ja get settled?            Dave
186 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
187                                   **********
188         TALKING ABOUT LIBERALS AND CONSERVATIVES, WHAT 'ABOUT COMMIES?
189                                   **********
190 How many commies does it take to screw in a light bulb?
191 
192 None, commies prefer working in the dark.
193 
194 ########################################    WELL HATE TO TELL ALL OF YOU THIS BUT YOUR BOTH RIGHT WE ARE ALL CREATED EQUIL 
195 EXCEPT FOR THE DIFFERENCES WE CREATE OURSELVES. SOME OF US DEVELOPE MENTALY AND
196 
197 INTELECTUALY AT DIFFERENT RATES SOME DON'T EVEN MAKE IT SOME ARE AGRESIVE SOME 
198 seems to me that ya all aren't to generous to others yourownselves*****pww*****
199 
200 MIGHT TRY THE SYSTEM FIRST BEFORE YOU SLANDER> SEEMS LIKE WHAT EVER YA WANT TO SAY YA CAN> GOOD IDEA!!
201        =A WATCHER=
202 
203 
204 nOTHING IS RIGHT OR WRONG BUT
205 THINKING MAKES IT SO.
206 
207 sO WHY DON'T YOU GUYS STOP
208 THINKING AND USE THE BBS AS A
209 PLACE FOR ADVERTISEMENTS AND
210 SUCH?
211 
212 
213 ////          THE WHIP
214 
215 ================================
216 did you know that mondale has se
217 selected his v.p. candidate?
218 dolly parton......
219 the ticket will be called tits
220 and fritz and the slogan will be
221 "vote for the 3 boobs"
222 ################################
223 
224 
225 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
226 Well said Leonard!!!!!!!  I consider myself neither liberal or conservative, but I conclude that recently (within the last
227 20 or so years) liberals have been more damaging and dangerous than conservatives.  This was a change from the past, when the
228 opposite seemed to be true.  The problem, I believe, is that once liberals became powerful enough to pass laws, they couldn't
229 resist the temptation to 'get back' at all the un-nice people who were in power before. 
230 There is a difference, I believe, in 'doing right' and 'being nice.'  I can't believe, for example, that a shopkeeper
231 should be forced by the government to serve all people.  "Blasphemy!," I hear the liberals cry!  But why should I, having inv
232 ested by hard-earned money in a venture of my own choosing, not forcing anyone to do business with me, be forced to do 
233 business with somebody else?    And here is where the difference between 'right' and 'nice' comes in:  Sure, I'm notbeing 
234 'nice' to a person if I refuse to serve him, but that doesn't necessarily mean that he actually has a RIGHT to my services.
235    Liberals tend to believe that if an act isn't NICE, laws should be passed to prohibit it, even if the un-nice person
236 in question has every right to do that.  Another good example is in schools.  Private schools are a voluntary association
237 of individuals for the purpose of education.  There is no reason that such schools should be forced to accept any particular
238 student, even if such rejection would be un-nice.
239    To be sure, conservatives have similar problems.  They tend to legislate morality, passing laws against drug use, 
240 prostitution, gambling, and a host of others.  In this way, liberals and conservatives appear nearly alike:  Each has certain
241 likes and dislikes, BUT BOTH TEND TO FEEL THAT THEY CAN AND SHOULD PASS LAWS TO FORCE THE REST OF THE WORLD TO 'TOE THE LINE'
242 AND ACT THE WAY THEY WANT YOU TO ACT.
243    That's the big mistake.  I have my likes and dislikes too, but I don't claim to have any right to pass laws forcing
244 my preferences on others.  Most of the rest of the world (and most people in this country) consider government to be
245 mallet to bash one's enemies with when one is in power, and to be bashed with when one is out of power.  Eventually they
246 will see that this game of attack and counter-attack, manipulation and counter-manipulation is foolish, stupid, wasteful,
247 deceptive, unfair, and particularly childish.  They will know that government's only permissible function is the maintenance
248 of a society that we can all live in, free from force or fraud, in totally voluntary cooperation with each other.
249 
250    At this time, as I said, I consider liberals to be more dangerous, because they are attempting to set up a system where it
251 is difficult or impossible to achieve more by working harder (the so-called progressive income tax.)  They do this by forcing
252 the productive people to support the non-productive people.  This (naturally) encourages non-production, and thus stagnation
253 and deterioration of the society as we know it.
254 
255    My message to the liberals has always been this:
256 "Be as liberal as you want to be, as long as you aren't liberal with my money!"
257 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon :::::::::::::::::
258 DO YOU KNOW WHAT GAY STANDS FOR?.... Got Aids Yet.
259 #########################################
260 Do you know how helen keller burned her hand?....reading the waffle iron
261 ########################################whats blue and squirms in the corner?..
262 a baby with a bag over its head.
263 whats green and sits in the corner?....
264 the same baby two weeks later.
265   Dear sirs
266 may I point out to you that a scoity that has no history 
267 also has no future.  case in point I think that both the 
268 liberals and the conservits should look back at the
269 fall of the romen empire and then tack a close look
270 around them selfs.  on a diffrent tract what are
271 your views on the innicent by reasons of insainty
272 cop out that is used or missused these days
273 
274 still
275 MA YUAN
276 WELL, IT SEEMS WE HAVE SOME BORN AGAIN CONSERVATIVES ESPOUSING THEIR "NEW" VIEWS...........   ANY BORN AGAIN REAGANITES ???
277 AS A PRODUCT OF THE LIBERAL '60 S AND '70 S, I THINKBROADER, MORE MATURE APPROACH TO THE QUESTION AT HAND, IS WARRANTED.
278 THE FIRST CONSIDERATION TO COME TO MIND IS THE CONCEPT OF DYNAMIC SOCIAL CYCLICAL PHENOMENON......   WE HAVE SEEN IT 
279 BEFORE AND WE SHALL SEE IT AGAIN......   AS FOR THE IDEA OF "I OWN THE BUSINESS--- I CAN SERVE ANYONE I PLEASE IS OUTRAGEOUS
280 AND IRRESPONSIBLE....   IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE STRUCTURE AND SUPPORT THAT THE GOV'T 
281 PROVIDES TO BUSINESSES (I.E.... TRANSPORTATION, BANKING SYSTEMS, ELECTRICAL FACILITIES,
282 BUILDING CODES, AND SO ON), THERE WOULD NEVER BE ANY SMALL BUSINESSES.....  THEY WOULD BE EATEN UP IN THE TURMOIL..... 
283 AND THAT VERY GOV'T IS MADE UP OF ALL OF US....  THE U. S. IS SORT OF LIKE A BLUE CHIP STOCK...
284 
285 
286 
287 THAT IS, A BLUE CHIP STOCK, THAT WE ALL OWN SHARES OF.   ....THESE SHARES ENTITLE US TO CERTAIN PRIVILEDGES
288 ONE OF WHICH IS THAT BUSINESSES (PROFESSIONALS) MUST ADHERE TO ESTABLISHED STANDARDS AND PRACTICES....  BUT SOCIAL EXCLUSION
289 PREJUDICE, SERVES NO PURPOSE TO TO DIVIDE SOCIAL CLASSES FURHTER
290 AND EVENTUALLY LEAD TO FURTHER CORRUPTION ON A MASSIVE SCALE...
291 ALTHOUGH WE MAY BE SUFFERING FOR OUR L
292 THATS LIBERAL APPROACH TO SOLVING INTERNAL PROBLEMS....  IT IS BY FAR
293 IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF ALL INVOLVED...AND IT SHOULD PAY OFF FOR US
294 IN THE LONG RUN......
295 REMEMBER---WE ARE A MELTING POT....AND IT IS FROM THIS MIX THAT 
296 WE HAVE EXCELLED IN THE WORLD ARENA.... LET'S NOT SCREW IT UP NOW BY REVERTI
297 REVERTING TO THE PAST.....  LET'S LOOK FORWARD AND NOT BACK.....
298 REALISTICALLY...THE GOOD OLD DAYS WERE NEVER  --THAT-- GREAT.....
299 YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD HACKER,
300 ******************************   BIT BRAIN       ************
301 ****************************************************************
302 
303 
304 it seems we are down to the question of governments. if a government is to rule by majority, the n some people's
305 rights will be abridged, depending on what is the majority view. Perhaps we should consider the principle of anarchy.
306 In that case a lots of people will have their "rights" abridged by other people and not the system, but with anarchy
307 perhaps there are no rights since there is no society to define them. 
308 ##############dss#####################
309 
310 
311 I think an important point should be pointed  out. That is, We have exsisted as a nation and a country for 200 years
312 without a significant change in the governing system. I think this is because of the adversary nature of our system
313 no one viewpoint is allowed to dominate because of checks and balance, which depend on a free press, public opinion,
314 and the elective system. A bbs like this contributes to the free exchange of
315 opinion which affects public opinion. If one side does something dirty, it is virulently exposed by the other side or
316 the press and the society will swing back to the middle again. Although this is not perfect, nothing is. Society has conditione
317 itself to be combative, this part of the underlying anarchy of human nature. An example is news reporting, if a
318 reporter reports something favorable about something he is judged to be "on the take" in a way. However if he reports
319 in a negative way, he will be believed.
320 That is why there is a lot of negative reports about the government, which often hinders the business of governing. This 
321 is a good example of the nature of our system.
322 
323 ################dss####################
324 
325 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
326 
327 MA YUAN:  Do you speak English too?
328 
329 Scribbler & Whip:  Why would anyone want ANOTHER advertising BBS in
330 Portland.  I think ten is enough, particularly when BWMS is not of
331 the appropriate format for this purpose.  If advertisements excite
332 you, I suggest you try one of the following BBS numbers:
333 BEE.......................649-xxxx
334 Bit Bucket................761-xxxx
335 CBBS/NW.......284-xxxx or 646-xxxx
336 PMS.......................245-xxxx
337 PAC.......................245-xxxx
338 R/CPM (Portland)..........621-xxxx
339 R/CPM (Beaverton).........641-xxxx
340 Security..................626-xxxx
341 Sunday Trader.............653-xxxx
342 80+.......................771-xxxx
343 
344 I must admit, my political inclinations, also, are limited to nonexist-
345 ant, but I am not terribly stimulated b advertisements either.  If you are,
346 why don't you go have an orgasm on one of these other systems.  Meanwhile I
347 will patiently watch and wait until the subject changes to philosophy/religion, culture, sex, etc.
348 
349 CYM:  I'm afraid I must disagree this time.  I believe that "luck" and 
350 "chance" are abstractions used where the causative agent is not clear,
351 or is not desired to be disclosed.  Neither exist in reality; for every
352 phenomenon there is a cause, whether or not it is humanly concievable.
353 I am also of the opinion that there are extremely few who are incapable
354 of providing for themselves, but there are multitudes (particularly in this
355 country) who prefer not to.  As to the
356 political implications of this I would not speculate.  To the extent that my
357 limited political adeptness will allow me to form opinions, I am largely in 
358 agreement.  
359 
360 To the person with the warped sense of humor:
361 What do you do for entertainment, behead kittens?  Please leave your
362 address so those in your neighood with kids can check their halloween candy
363 for rasor blades.
364 
365                                                      Dirty Ol' Man
366 
367 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
368 
369  
370 PS:  Anyone know how to use IMSAI system at 760-7609???
371 
372                     Dirty
373 
374 PPS:  Is the person with the warped sence of humor perchance Gary
375 Thomas?
376 
377                         Dirty
378 
379 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
380 
381 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
382 
383 RE: Conservativism/liberalism...
384 The cost of nonconformity is inconveniece.
385 
386 RE: Bill Boards for ads only... I wn't object to your use of the BWMS 
387 for advertisements so...
388 RE: insults... may feel good when there's nothing else to say but it 
389 isn't effective communication under most circumstances.
390 RE: 'Bullshit '... it's all relative.
391 RE: Sex... Best regards.
392 RE: Religon... worst regards.
393 RE: politics...not much better.
394 RE: reading a good book...see ya'll
395 later
396 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^cosmo^^^^^^^^^^^^
397 *****************************************************************
398 PAM: BUT OF COURSE YOU ARE MISSED! YOURS IS A VOICE OF CALM AMIDST THE
399 INSANITY THAT SEEMS TO HAVE OVER TAKEN BWMS OF LATE.
400 DOM: DO YOU HAVE A PASS WORD FOR THE IMSAI SYSTEM? (IT IS JUST ANOTHER
401 BBS/CPM [RCPM] SYSTEM FOR CERTAIN PRIVATE USERS WITH PASSWORDS.)
402 Leonard: YES, PROBABLY.
403 OTHERS: YAWN.. HOW ABOUT MOVING ON TO ANOTHER SUBJECT? AFTER HEARING THE
404 SAME ARGUMENT FOR THE 20TH TIME IT DOES GET TO BE A BIT BORING....
405 ANYONE: I'M LOOKING FOR A SOMEONE WHO KNOWS TRS-80'S (2,3,4,12,ECT.) 
406 PARTICULARLY THOSE RUNNING CPM. I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS.
407 PLEASE LEAVE A NOTE HERE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN TALKING.
408 ********** CISTOP MIKEY ********* 15 OCT 83 ******** 10:21AM *********
409 HOW ABOUT A CHANGE OF SUBJECT? RUMOR HAS IT THAT MA BELL IS THINKING OF
410 CHARGING A SUR CHARGE IF YOU USE A MODEM. WHAT DO YOU THINK? I HAVE HEARD
411 AMOUNTS AS HIGH AS $50 A MONTH. IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO SAY ON THIS, YOU
412 MIGHT ALSO LEAVE A NOTE ON CBBS STATING YOUR VIEWS SINCE JIM IS VERY
413 INTERESTED IN THIS TO THE POINT OF DOING BATTLE WITH MA.
414 IF YOU WANT TO KNOW MY VIEW, IT IS SIMPLE: AS I HAVE STATED BEFORE, I 
415 HAVE A LIMIT ON WHAT I WILL PAY FOR MY BASE PHONE CHARGES. THAT BEING
416 $50 A MONTH TOTAL. IF IT EXCEEDS THAT I WILL CUT BACK WHERE I CAN UNTIL
417 IT DROPS BELOW THE $50 MARK. SINCE I HAVE TWO LINES, THIS MEANS I HAVE 
418 BEEN PAYING $37 A MONTH BASE CHARGE FOR MY PHONES. ($14 FOR BWMS)
419 THE FIRST THING I WILL DO IS CHANGE BWMS TO A METERED LINE. THE NEXT WILL
420 BE TO DROP THE CUSTOM CALLING PACKAGE ON MY VOICE LINE. AND FINALLY ALL
421 ELSE FAILING I WILL DROP BWMS. PERSONALLY I FEEL THERE IS NO REASON TO
422 BE CHARGING A SUR CHARGE FOR USE OF A MODEM. IN FACT, I THINK IT IS A 
423 BIT FOOLISH ON MA'S PART TO DO SO SINCE IT WILL SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCE
424 THE PRIVATE USE OF MODEMS ON THE PHONE SYSTEM WHICH WILL MEAN LOST INCOME
425 TO HER (PARTICULARLY IF SHE GOES TO AN ALL METERED SERVICE.). MORE
426 IMPORTANTLY THE MAJOR LOSS WILL COME FROM SECONDARD PRIVATE PHONE LINES
427 BEING DROPED BECAUSE OF THE EXCESSIVE COST, AND LOSS OF THE LOCAL LONG
428 DISTANCE REVENUE GENERATED BY THE USERS WHO ARE LONG DISTANCE FROM THE
429 BBS'S. THE REASON FOR THE SUR CHARGE THAT I HAVE BEEN GIVEN SO FAR IS
430 THAT IF YOU HAVE A MODEM, THEN YOU CAN AFORD THE EXTRA CHARGE ON YOUR
431 LINE TO HELP DEFRAY THE COST FOR EVERYONE ELSE USING THE PHONES. WHAT
432 SEEMS TO BE FORGOTTEN IS THAT THIS IS A HOBBY FOR ME AND I CAN NOT AFFORD
433 TO PAY OVER $50 A MONTH FOR A HOBBY! THAT IS MORE THEN I PAY FOR
434 ELECTRICITY! (AND I'M ALL ELECTRIC HERE.) I HAVE A FEELING THAT UNLESS
435 MA WAKES UP SOON AND FIGURES OUT HOW TO PROVIDE PHONE SERVICE AT A
436 REASONABLE COST SHE MAY FIND COMPITITION FOR LOCAL LINES AS WELL...
437 AT $50 A MONTH IT BECOMES A VERY LUCRATIVE BUSINESS, AND THERE WILL
438 BE MANY CLAMORING FOR A PIECE OF THE ACTION. WANT AN EXAMPLE? HOW 
439 MUCH ARE YOU PAYING FOR CABLE? (BY THE WAY THAT SYSTEM IS ALREADY 
440 LARGLY INSTALLED AND IT WOULD BE FAIRLY EASY TO ADD VOICE CAPABILITY 
441 TO IT......)      NUFF SAID
442 ********* CISTOP MIKEY ************ 15 OCT 83 ****** 10:48AM *********
443 Mikey,
444   I know a lot about TRS-80 Model's 1,3 and 4. Any questions?
445 Go ahead and ask me. Call me at 695-xxxx anytime on the
446 weekends or from 4:00pm to 8:30pm on weekdays.
447  
448                               Chris Bradley
449                             Alias, TRON
450 ########################################
451 REPLACE
452 MIKEY: I UNDERSTAND THAT MA-BELL IS ALREADY CHARGING THE SUR-CHARGE IN THE 
453 SOUTH WESTERN STATES LIKE TEXAS. SEEMS THE PHONE LINES THERE DON'T SUPPORT 
454 GARBAGE FREE TRANSMISSION OF DATA SO IF YOU HAVE A MODEM AND WANT TO USE IT 
455 YOU MUST PAY FOR AN UPGRADED LINE. THE PHONE SYSTEM THERE BEING RATHER DATED
456 NOT LIKE OUR RATHER NEW SYSTEM HERE IN THE N W. OF COURSE IF THIS CATCHES ON
457 AND THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT, WATCH OUT!
458 
459 ##################C.Y.M.################################10/15 11:29AM#######
460 about the modems..the phone company will never know that I have a modem
461 and I dont think there is anyway they can find out since I plug into the
462 hanset outlet. If I was using a audio or non direct connect modem, I think
463 there is a definite legal recourse sinceyou would not really be hooked into
464 the phone lines, but instead it would
465 be like talkng into the phone normally
466 except you are using a computer. The phone co. cannot stop you from using yo
467 your own equipment,(court decision) so it seems to me there is a legal 
468 precedent here. The only problem is how data transmission is legally defined
469 ###############dss###################
470 DSS, you're misinformed if you think that plugging your modem into the hand
471 set plug the phone company won't know you
472 have a modem.   The most obvious and direct way they'd know would be to scan calls for continuous noise (carrier tone) and
473 home in on these lines for further analysis.  I agree that we shouldn't pay more for a 'data-grade' line, especially since
474 we didn't ask for it:  Modems were DESIGNED to be able to use voice-grade lines and transmit correctly, and we paid good
475 money for this capability.  Secondly, it is unlikely that the phone company even has the option of selecting between voice- 
476 and data-grade lines for any given call or caller, so the extra money is a farce. 
477     One way TPC (The Phone Company) may get around this is to eliminate the option of unlimited local calling and go to a
478 metered rate for all customers.  This way, modem users would automatically pay more, simply because they tend to use the 
479 phone for a longer period of time.  Let's hope this doesn't happen.
480 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon :::::::::::::::::::
481 P.S.:  What's the definition of a Born-Again-Conservative?
482 Answer:  Anyone whose arguments confuse a liberal.
483 ::::::::::::::
484 Im not sure the phone co. can listen in on your phone conversation to check if there is a cont. tone unless they
485 have a court order. And like I said if you are using a non DC modem, as long as you are not hooked up to the lines, 
486 the information you transmit over the lines, be it data or voice is your own
487 business, protected blaw.
488 #################dss###################
489 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
490 
491     Hello, all......Back I am,......equipment seems OK, I guess BWMS
492   is the best place to check a terminal....something like "worst-case"
493   testing.....I must apologise for dissappearing on everybody, I have 
494   had a rather harrowing rs-232 interfacing adventure with my system 
495   for the past few weeks........seems functional, though....
496 
497     Many new people out here. New (?) ideas too. Certainly a new topic;
498   but why something as MUNDANE as GOVERNMENT? Let's get esoteric. I
499   suggest "Utopia: acheivable or Erehwon". All you behavorists speak
500   up. Anyone for Twin Oaks? Baby boxes? (air-cradles for the less
501   familiar (take note MIKEY, not familur......i know, i know....i have
502   a minimum of 20 spelling/gramatical errors in this text; but your 
503   "familur" always drives me nuts......) with B.F. Skinner....
504 
505   A special hello to PAM; to whom I abandoned mid-thought....What's up?
506 
507   And BAD; do I have some BSP's for you!
508 
509   Dave: where is d???
510 
511                                                           Aaron
512 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
513 
514 No, I dont think utopia is achievable due to the underlying anarchy of human
515 nature. How do you define Utopia?
516 #################dss###################
517 
518 Yes, we can and do listen in to conversations. The law prevents us from
519 using the information heard, but don't bet on listening being unlawful.
520 It isn't. We can listen to verify line quality, or to determine the type
521 of usage. different states laws vary. The SW Bell surcharge pertains to
522 what are called 'information providers', and was originally intended to
523 apply to data base and time share computers; it is about 5 years old,
524 they just started aplying it to everybody. It does not concern how
525 you get the data online and affect all data, whether direct, via the
526 other side of the phone, or acoustic, or whatever.
527 Full, required metered service was requested by P NW Bell, but was 
528 denied by the PUC. You may soon expect to see a limited usage allowed,
529 both outgoing and incoming, with a surcharge for more use, or 'meter'
530 style rates for more usage. Also, now with divestiture, expect the
531 cost of flat rate to rise a lot, and when most low usage people are on
532 metered service, the high users will have a much higher rate for flat
533 rate. PNB officially denies plans for a special data rate, but is
534 probably waiting for the courts to decide on the SW Bell case.
535 
536 As to the merits of liberal vs conservative: extremists are all 
537 dangerous, both are extremists... I have never met a politically active
538 person who I would trust, with anything.
539 Luck is. If we can't predict it, it is pure luck. It may have a cause,
540 but unless you know or can control the cause, it is pure luck. You may be
541 able to define it differently, but it still is the same thing. It is
542 called 'unimportant' by those who have been favored by it, and the rest of
543 us know better. Without luck the poor black in South Africa has the same
544 chance at success as you do, and he doesn't because he wasn't lucky enough
545 to be born a white male in the USA. We all like to believe we ourselves are
546 in control of our destiny, it make us feel godd, strong, important, etc,..
547 We don't. Whe I go out rock climbing I prefer to climb with someone who
548 is a little scared, he is careful. The climber who has never fallen and
549 believes he is too good will sonner or later kill someone, and I don't 
550 plan to be that someone. I won't climb with him. Same is true of any
551 venture. Good looks, etc will help overcome bad luck, but still.
552 (By the way, how did you choose your parents who gave you your good genes?)
553 ////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
554 :::::::
555 Typical Argument:    Productive person:  "I got where I am through hard work"  (True)
556                       Non-productive person:  "But you were helped by others"  (Also True, but wait!)
557 
558     While it may be true that people depend to some extent on the efforts of others to get where they are, unless you
559 are prepared to quantify your arguments you'll get nowhere.  Even though a Productive Person may have depended on others
560 to some degree, that degree may be so small as to be ignorable and pointless.  If we consider the average productivity 
561 of everyone in the world, we will find that about half (not necessarily exactly half) have a productivity greater than
562 the average, while the other half have a productivity less than average.  But almost no-one is totally independant on 
563 anyone else; This is not the point, though, I'm glad to say.
564 Here's the decisive counter-argument:  In a canoe with two rowers, it doesn't matter who rows harder and who is
565 lazy.  Both canoers get to the destination at essentially the same time.  But that doesn't mean that each did the same
566 work during the journey, certainly.  And while the lazy canoer may say that part of the hard-working canoer's success 
567 (getting to the destination) was due to him, in fact more of the lazy canoer's success was due to the hard-worker.
568      Similarly, just because we depend on others in this world doesn't mean that we can claim no credit for our own hard
569 work.  There are lots of 'lazy canoers' in this world, and they are quite fond of pointing out that they are in some
570 way necessary.  
571      And while 'luck' (chance) may have some influence in our lives,  it is often used as an excuse by the lazies.
572 I have never heard anyone claim that luck was TOTALLY responsible for our lives, so I'd like to hear the estimate of
573 it's effects by those who believe it to be significant. 50%?  75%  90%?  Just how much of our success can be attributed
574 to that luck?  And if it is so great, why would anyone WORK HARD when they KNOW their success (or lack of it) is
575 preordained by chance, and they can do little about it?  
576     But that's just it!  That's why the lazies tend to believe in luck!  And that's why those that believe in luck tend to
577 be lazy!  If you think your hard work accomplishes nothing, you won't do it, will you?  Your success will come to you no 
578 matter what, so why work?  And you will believe that anyone who is successful got that way due to pure chance, not
579 hard work.    And, therefore, you should be able to take 50% of that guy's luck in taxes and spread it among the 
580 unlucky, right?  The guy didn't deserve it anyway, did he?  Nah!  The guy didn't work hard (only a fool would believe
581 that working hard causes success) and even if he did, that was completely independant of his success, right?
582 
583      I got where I am through my own hard work, and I resent anyone implying that my success is mostly/totally due
584 to chance.  Or mostly/totally due to the work of others.  Everyone is, to some degree, depedant on others, but to
585 distort this fact to justify theft is just that, a thief.
586 
587 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::::::::
588 TO: ANON
589 WELL SAID SIR.
590 
591 
592 
593 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
594 WELL NOW!
595 
597       
598 PAM, COME BACK! THESE PEOPLE ALL LOVE YOU! (I FEEL THE SAME WAY)
599 
600 ANON, IF THE GENERAL TONE ON HERE LATELY WASN'T SO ACRIMONIOUS, I'D
601   DRIVE YOU INTO IGNOMINIOUS DEFEAT, YOU WITH YOUR PUTZY IDEAS. STILL,
602   I HAVE TO TRY TO CONTRIBUTE TO AN AURA OF PEACE HERE TO DRAW THE
603   MORE CREATIVE AND NICER PEOPLE BACK HERE WHO HAVE FLED THIS HURLY-BURLY
604   OF USED (AND MIS-USED) IDEAS.
605 
606 TO ALL: I'M AFRAID FANNING THE FLAMES ANY MORE IN THIS LOWEST-COMMON-
607 DENOMINATOR DEBATE. SEEMS LIKE THE DUMBER THE SUBJECT THE MORE PARTICIPANTS
608 WE GET. LETS GET ONTO SOMETHING MORE WORTHWHILE THAN NEWS HEADLINES AND
609 POLITICAL RHETORIC. NO DOUBT THIS WILL BE LESS POPULAR, BUT I HAVE SEEN 
610 THE LIGHT. I USED TO OPPOSE RULES OF ANY KIND HERE, BUT THE DEBATE HAS
611 JUST GOTTEN TOO LOW LEVEL. WE NEED TO TAKE STEPS TO DRIVE OUT THE YAHOOS.
612 SUGGESTIONS AS TO HOW TO RAISE THE LEVEL HERE, ANYBODY?? PLEASE?!
613 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE DESPERATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
614 
615 REMEMBER THE TERMINAL PROGRAM WHICH WAS PROMISED SEVERAL MONTHS AGO?
616 WELL... WE HAVE FINISHED THE TERMINAL AND MOST OF ITS FUNCTI_NS.
617 
618 THE FOLLOWING FEATURES ARE COMPLETED:
619  STANDARD ASCII TERMINAL.
620    2. EXPANDABLE MEMORY BUFFER WITH CONSTANT AVAILABLE SPACE READOUT.
621    3. BAR METER TO INDICATE PER CENT OF MEMORY LEFT.
622    4. FULL DUPLEXING AND SCROLLING MEMORY WINDOW FOR VIRTUAL MEMORY SIMULATIN
623    5. REPEAT AND CONTROL MODES FOR EASY ONE KEY ENTRY.
624    6. RECEIVE AND TRANSMIT INDICATORS WITH RECEIVE FVEQUENCY LAMP.
625    7. REVIEW OF BUFFER ON SCREEN WITH HALT AND SPEED-UP KEYS.
626    8. OUTPUT OF BUFFER TO PRINTER WITH UPPER LOWER CASE.
627    9. OUTPUT OF BUFFER TO MODEM WITH PAUSE CHACTER (ASCII DOWNLOAD).
628 
629 FEATURES SOON TO BE AVAILABLE:

