From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: He-aled!       
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:03:57
Message Number 16101

I thought Peyote was a root..... not a shroom.... I remember Silacide 
sp? shrooms..... from a long time ago.  Used to pick them out of cow 
crap, wash them and make a nasty tasting tea.... guaranteed to make you 
forget a whole week of school work in one sitting. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:06:45
Message Number 16102

Guess I was lucky in one aspect about my parents.... they were both 
pretty emotional. I mean, if you were sad, you cried, if you were angry,
you yelled, ect.. I mean, I didn't have to surpress my feelings at home.
But I was kind of a hostile kid at school, my dad was an alcoholic and 
I used to take my frustrations out at school a lot..... so I guess I 
held stuff in at home so I wouldn't upset my mother. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THUMPER ONE         
Subject: Traps          
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:10:23
Message Number 16103

Dear Doomed Bunny, 
I'm going to let that comment about my "bad eyes" slide until I recover 
however, when I am back on my feet.... you had better dig a very deep 
hole to hide in!!!!! There's NOTHING wrong with my eyes!!!!!!! (as long
as I am wearing contacts, that is).  People who live in stone houses
shouldn't throw glass.......er, hmmm, maybe the anesthesia hasn't 
completely worn off yet. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THUMPER ONE         
Subject: You're Preggers
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:12:55
Message Number 16104

EIGHT KIDS!!!!! EIGHT KIDS!!!!!  NO Vulcan way!!!! Besides, if I wanted 
eight kids by the time I was 35, that'd mean that..... (quick adding 
here) I have 4 years to have 5 kids..... It would have to be a litter...
GOD, perish the thought.... Vulcans don't have puppies!!!!! 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Whips and chain
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:15:53
Message Number 16105

SA>Congradulations.... 
SS>That's congratulations..."And a double dumb ass to you too"
 
Shouldn't there be a comma "And a double dumb ass to you, too." 
Hmmmm?   "Just a damn minute, Captain." 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Smart 1 or Amy?
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:18:37
Message Number 16106

TS>..his dog scared the intruders off. Kinda neat, 
 
Yeah, most burgulars won't bother a house with a dog in it... but if 
they are bound and determined they will resort to the things you 
mentioned before (gun, poison). But most of the time, they aren't going 
to bother. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Whips and chain
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:21:54
Message Number 16107

RF>We also played 'Hit the Turtle with various objects'. 
 
Hmmmm, that sounds like a game that wouldn't do much for Turtle, except 
maybe give him a few new bruises..... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:23:50
Message Number 16108

RF>but I have seen four or five (births) on video, and I thought it 
was 'beautiful'. 
 
(Saavik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tongue out a Turtle) 
Naaaaaaa! See someone agrees with me!!!!!! 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DEATH FENNEC        
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:25:57
Message Number 16109

DF>It deals with friendship and fights.... 
 
Nuff said, I understand what you are talking about, DF..... this is a 
great conflict and I can certainly see why it dismays you. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DEATH FENNEC        
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:27:34
Message Number 16110

DF>Yeah, well a good star to wish on would be good right now! :)
 
You want Kelly McGinnis or Brooke Sheilds?    
  
                          /\
                     ____/  \____
                     \          /
                      \        /
                      /        \
                     
Would this due?? I ran out of time to finish.... I'm not even supposed 
to be out of bed doing this now. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DEATH FENNEC        
Subject: Kiddies        
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:33:12
Message Number 16111

DF>I haven't hit on Saavik in awhile! 
 
You haven't /seen/ Saavik in a while!!! 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:34:36
Message Number 16112

SA>There was a black girl named Vanilla... 
PW>I think whe went on to have a sex change, wear lots of pancake 
   makeup, and co-star in a Teenage Ninja Mutant Turtle movie. 
 
And changed her last name to ICE....... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: $$$$           
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:36:41
Message Number 16113

No I haven't heard that song "Send me your money." How does it go...?? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:38:24
Message Number 16114

SS to DF>Would you PLEASE stop justifying your margins...it drives me 
         crazy. 
 
Still not smoking, eh, Steel? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: Life           
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:41:10
Message Number 16115

PW>To sum up my life in two words right now.....DICKED! 
 
Um, gee, care to elaborate? Sounds like something is definately not 
going in the direction you want it to. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: HACMAN              
Subject: doby           
Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:44:36
Message Number 16116

Saavik, My Doby has been digging holes lately. I think I can hear little
Chinese voices in one of them.... that's /really/ hard to break them off
when you aren't around while they are digging. The chewing is getting 
better, she still steal the occasional stuffed animal from my daughters 
room.... but my little girl (4) is a real toughy! She'll chase her down 
and snatch it back then shake her finger at the dog..."No No NO that's 
mine!" then she'll smack her over the head with it.... mind you, being
smacked with a stuffed animal doesn't hurt anything more than the dogs 
feelings.... 
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:16:15
Message Number 16117

>...after all there are fruits that would be more upsetting to have as
>a namesake.
 
Like kumquat, say, or tangelo? Or, moving out of the relm of fruits and
into the domain of food items in general, there's always "meatloaf"
or "lima bean" or "toast"...and if we move out of food objects, we
can have people named "sprocket," "fork," "backgammon," or "clock."
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: T.V. evangelist
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:20:14
Message Number 16118

>...very important prerequisits for being healed...
>...send me money...
 
"Now if you can only send a dollar or two
 There ain't a hell of a lot I can promise to you
 But if you really want to see Heaven's door
 Make out a check for five hundred dollars or more!
 
 Seeeeeend me your moooooney
 Seeeeeend me your moooooney..."
 
(Lyrics (c) 1991 Suicidal Tendencies/Mega Force Records, Inc.)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: Toys           
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:22:38
Message Number 16119

>..."My First Saw-Blade Shooter"...
 
I want one! I want one! Fischer-Price, you say? Where can I get one?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: help           
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:23:38
Message Number 16120

>Does anyone else have anymore?
 
(S)he has stopped doing the metabolism tango, perhaps?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: 15000          
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:25:26
Message Number 16121

>I do not date girls who wanna fool around.
 
That's not an insecurity thing, is it? May I assume from that that the
single most important tihing about any relationship to you is sex?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THUMPER ONE         
Subject: Birth          
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:28:08
Message Number 16122

>Turtle, you have the mind of a computer, ...
 
Like hell. Computers don't have minds.
 
>...and the soul of one too.
 
Not even close.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THUMPER ONE         
Subject: TRust          
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:29:01
Message Number 16123

>Stop that. Be consistant.
 
No. (Heh heh heh.)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Odd euphemisms.
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:30:02
Message Number 16124

Hey, here's one! (S)he has made the ultimate contribution to the
recycling campaign.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: He-aled!       
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:31:10
Message Number 16125

>Actually that [sic] called being "slain in the spirit"...I've had it
>happen to me...
 
Really? You used to be a Charismatic or Gnostic Christian? The closest
I've ever come to that sensation is when I do that thing where you squat
down and hyperventilate, then stand up suddenly and have someone come
up behind you and squeeze your ribcage...it makes you switch off like
a light bulb. It's a really bizzare sensation, 'cause you are still
conscious without being self-aware...Bizzare!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:35:01
Message Number 16126

>...it's not the sights...it's the feelings that race through you...
 
No, it's the feelings that race through YOU. The feelings that race 
through ME are: Y'know, it takes about a hundred thousand bucks to
get this bioblob his first job at 18...there goes my Ferrari.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:36:35
Message Number 16127

>*Ding* (Ha, I finally got to ding you)
 
And it was /wonderful/...was it good for you, too?
 
Y'know, I'm rather proud of the fact that Kelly and I have already out-
lasted most of the supposedly "more committed" people in this country
who get married. I refuse to get married myself...not because I don't
respect the ideals that marriage is built on or because I don't want a
lasting relationship, but because I feel very strongly that in a society
where almost all marriages fail, marriage is meaningless. The
institution of marriage no longer has anything whatsoever to do with the
ideals of marriage, it no longer serves any function as a way to provide
a stable environment for raising children, and it no longer has any valu
as an expression of commitment or love...marriage as it exists in this
country makes me ill.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:40:28
Message Number 16128

"Cautious" and "suspicious" are worlds apart...suspicion is just
about a guarantee of failure in any relationship. As for caution, I
agree up to a point...remember, "of all forms of caution, caution in
love is most often fatal" (Freud, I think, although I may be mistaken).
Sure, if you become intimate with people sooner or later you're gonna
get clobbered...but so what? If the advantages of intimacy outweigh
the risks to you, then you simply accept that fact and move on. If they
don't, you don't form intimate relationships. It's a really simple
cost/benefit thing, you know?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Not 15000      
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:44:35
Message Number 16129

SS>...women are too confusing.
SA>Oh, and men aren't?
 
Nope. :)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Birth          
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:45:30
Message Number 16130

>He's just never seen a child that he spawned brought into this world.
 
And he never will.
 
>One day, he'll eat his words.
 
The hell he will! You wanna put money on it? The reptile really, really
detests children...especially the very small variety. 
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:48:11
Message Number 16131

>/Trust/ is NOT the absence of jealousy.
 
No. Trust is what you have when you believe your partner will not
deliberately do anything to hurt you. Jealousy is your own insecurity
vented on another person or object.
 
>You can't control your feelings.
 
That's only true to a certain point. You CAN control the way you respond
to the people and situations around you. You can also control your own
self-image. Ain't nobody in the world can affect your own mental state
unless you /allow/ them to...although you can allow someone by inaction
as well as by action.
 
I say again: Trust is integral to a stable relationship. With no trust,
there is no stable relationship.
 
Jealousy is destructive to any relationship. Jealousy is a reaction
governed by one of the most ancient portions of the brain--the limbic
system--and should be left to the lizards and lower life forms where it
properly belongs. Jealousy has no part in the mind of an intelligent,
self-determining being. Jealousy is the single most vicious, hateful,
destructive emotional force in existance, and where there is jealousy
there is a relationship in trouble. Period.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: BBS naked!    
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:54:15
Message Number 16132

>Best relaxant: a cuddle with an affectionate woman.
 
Nope. Best relaxant: a combination of Demerol and meperidine taken
intravenously. A cuddle with an affectionate woman does things to
my physiology that are contraindicated for a state of relaxation...
although a /massage/ from an affectionate woman is relaxing. English
Breakfast tea with honey is pretty good, too...as is the afterglow from
an eighteen-hour hacking fugue, The Indigo Girls, sunset at the beach,
long solitary drives, and waterbeds.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: Volkswagen     
Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:59:40
Message Number 16133

>How about a 'Thing' instead? They're convertible!
 
So are Type 112 Bugs. There is a long and interesting story behind the
Thing, though...they were originally designed as general-purpose utility
vehicles during WWII, and where used by Rommel and his Afrika Korps
for desert fighting. They're really weird-looking because they were
designed to have a large machine gun mounted on a tripod in the back.
The civilian versions don't have the tripod mounts any more, but they
do still have the pop-off doors. The Thing is actually a Bug with
a different body; the chassis, drivetrain, and suspension are pure Bug.
 
The thing I wanna do is build a sand rail someday...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:03:54
Message Number 16134

>Question for Turtle...
 
Answer for Saavik: I have a younger sister. I can't recall having been
jealous of her, though. Funny thing, though...Wratt and I had this 
discussion for about two hours last week, and I've got a better handle
on it now, although I still can't say I understand what it feels like.
I suspect it's a self-image thing, though; so far every person I've
discussed the subject with, bar none, have said it primarily comes down
to an expression of your own insecurity.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: VW again       
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:06:17
Message Number 16135

>Actually I've heard they aren't very reliable, ...
 
They're just as reliable as a Bug: you see Things with half a million
miles on 'em fairly frequently. Sure, they break down a lot, but when
they do you get out some rubber bands and a paper clip and make 'em go
again. They're so easy to fix a child can do it, and parts for 'em
generally cost about twelve bucks.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: He-aled!       
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:09:51
Message Number 16136

>(Turtle, can you help?)
 
What, you lookin' to score some? (Heh heh heh.)
 
Actually, they're mushrooms of a particular genus I can pronounce but
can't spell so I won't try, and they're mild hallucinigens. What else
did you want to know?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:12:16
Message Number 16137

>To Turtle...do you really feel you control your emotions? Or do you
>feel you just shove them aside?
 
Neither one. I simply don't allow /them/ to control /me/. 
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THUMPER ONE         
Subject: Peyote         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:13:48
Message Number 16138

NO> Whats Peyote?
T1> LocoWeed, ...
 
Nope. Locoweed is something else entirely...it's a green, prickly
weed that grows in semi-arid areas like the American midwest. It's
inedible but doesn't have any marked effects on humans. It's a powerful
intoxicant to cattle, however, and if they eat it they go nuts and
become very, very aggressive and unpredictable...hence the name
"locoweed". Ranchers hate the stuff and spend mucho bucks spraying
for it.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Just a thought.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:17:29
Message Number 16139

>Black Magic sucks the stress outta me and gives it to you.
 
With interest. Just talking to the dear lady makes my adrenaline start
going...but hey, she's a lot of fun anyway.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Perception     
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:19:03
Message Number 16140

>Well, aren't we just Mr. "Old Man Sick of Everything" Turtle.
 
Nope.
 
>There are things uglier than a newborn: [list follows]
 
Okay, okay, I stand corrected. Jesse Helms is uglier than a newborn,
too. But Lordy, they're hardly beautiful. Sentimentality aside, just
LOOK at a brand-new bioblob some time and tell me this little red
wrinkly thing is anything other than an aesthetic disaster.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: Life           
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:23:41
Message Number 16141

>To sum up my life in two words right now.......DICKED!
 
Say again? I seem to have missed something.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Smart 1 or dog?
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:27:03
Message Number 16142

>Yeah, most of the time burglars won't bother a house with a dog in it..
 
Most of the time, burglars won't bother a house with an alarm sticker on
the window, either, and they're a damn sight cheaper than a self-
propelled odor factory! :)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Babies & You   
Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:28:46
Message Number 16143

>(Saavik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tongue out a Turtle)
 
Turtle bites Saavik.
 
>Naaaaaaa! See someone agrees with me!!!!!!
 
People agree with Jesse Helms. What's yer point?
===========

From: ROBERT              
To: KYARA TOKYO         
Subject: Moving along   
Date & Time: 04/27/91 03:06:43
Message Number 16144

Robert returns Kyara's embrace with one arm, then releases her. "Not
at all, my dear," he says. "'Ad a small talk with Louis downstairs.
Thought I'd return this; 'e sometimes gets a little carried away with
'is job, 'e does." He unrolls the thick cloth under his arm to reveal
Kyara's katana. "Kept good care of it, though," he says as he passes her
the weapon with a great deal of formality. "Very nice, but not really
my style." That done, Robert removes his jacket and crosses the room to
hang it in the tiny closet opposite the door. Underneath, he is wearing
a small sidearm in a shoulder holster; an antique H&K 9mm mated to a
sophisticated Mitsuta combination visible/IR laser sight. He removes the
holster, placing it carefully on the small nightstand near the bed.
"Are you just going to stand there, then, or are you going to sit down?"
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Healed!        
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:23:40
Message Number 16145

S> Everyone at my old church thinks I'm going to hell, and I don't care.
 
DFy> Doesn't that bother you? 
  
Did you read my message?  YOu quoted me as saying "I don't care", and
then you ask if that bothers me?  Boy, try reading before asking
stupid questions.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Just a thought.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:26:50
Message Number 16146

R>....what's that command for getting a hardcopy? 
 
I dunno know...(Steel is playing incredibly dumb, knowing full well the 
implications of what Rufus could do with a hardcopy.)...really man, I 
can't remember. Oh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to delete them message. Oops
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Seriously now  
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:30:28
Message Number 16147

*yawn*
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Traps          
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:33:24
Message Number 16148

How long are you going to be laid up?  What did you go into surgery for?
Did everything go okay? 
 
Oh, BTW, I found the macros commands....heheh
 
It sucks to be you. (tm) Steel Enterprises, Inc.  (from macros, YES)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: You're Preggers
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:36:08
Message Number 16149

Eight kids, eh?  You most be out of your Vulcan mind.....BTW, it would 
be impossible, there's only 48 months in four years, and you'd need 
45 months to bear those kids.....I don't think three months is an 
adequate amount of time to be divided between five kids....now if they 
could artificially give you two sets of twims, and then one more little 
one...now that would be possible.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:41:52
Message Number 16150

SA> (Saavik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tonguw out at Turtle
SA> Naaa! See someone agrees with me!!!!
  
You forgot the:  Thhhhph! :P
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:45:27
Message Number 16151

SA> Still not smoking eh, Steel? 
  
No....I gave up.  When Tammy and I first meet, it was rather difficult, 
to say the least.  I had a few cigaretts with her and it's been downhill
from there. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: doby           
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:47:53
Message Number 16152

SA> ...then she'll smack her over the head with it...mind you, being 
SA> smacked with a stuffed animal doesn't hurt anything more than the 
SA> dogs feelings...
 
Unless the dog gets mad at her....then she might be in trouble...
 
BTW, that's dog's not dogs.  Singular possessive, not plural. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:51:52
Message Number 16153

T> (Listing names for people.)
  
Or "Blender," "Guitar," "Glass," "Turtle," "Stool," the list could be
endless. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: 15000          
Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:55:08
Message Number 16154

T> That's not an insecurity thing, is it? 
T> May I assume from that that the single most important thing about any
T> relationship to you is sex? 
 
1.) No.  That's a self-preservation...but, yes I can be insecure.  I, 
personally, believe in faithful,  I've only cheated on girlfriend and I 
was so guilt-ridden that I couldn't stand it.  
 
2.) Sex is very important to me in a relationship, but it must be kept i
(in) its proper perspective.  I occasionally remind myself that, for 
example, let's say a couple has a good sex life, an hour a day, every
day, even at that rate, they still have 23 hours a day together.  
(Assuming, of course, that they are married or live together.)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Odd euphemisms.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:03:31
Message Number 16155

T> ..(S)he has made the ultimate contribution to the recycling campaign.
  
That's gross.  Very gross. (Thinking of the implications to the food 
chain.  Yuck!)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: He-aled!       
Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:05:14
Message Number 16156

T> It's a really bizarre sensation, 'cause you are still conscious 
T> without beigh self-aware.
 
That's a fairly accuarte discription of what it's like to be "slain in 
the spirit."
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:08:30
Message Number 16157

T> (Speaking of the pros and cons of relationship)...It's a really 
T> simple cost/benefit thing, you know? 
  
As they say, it looks good on paper.  But the fact still remains that we
don't have total control of our emotions.  At least, I don't. 
s
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:14:29
Message Number 16158

T> (Jealousy) ...I suspect it's a self-image thing, though; so far every
T> person I've dicussed the subject with, bar none, have said it 
T> primarily comes down to an expression of your own insecurity. 
  
*Ding*   
I couldn't agree with you more.  I /know/ that jealous is an expression
of your own insecurity...and I /know/ that I have a problem with 
jealousy.  I have one question for you..Assuming that you, yourself, 
have never experienced jeaousy, and therefore, must be rather secure
about yourself.  How did you manage to get so self-secure?  I've seen 
/so/ many people who have a problem with jealousy.  
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:20:22
Message Number 16159

T> (Answering a question from Saavik about jealousy.)  I simply 
don't allow /them/ to control /me/. 
 
Do you deal with them as a separate entity or do you integrate them 
by over-riding them with logical. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Perception     
Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:23:32
Message Number 16160

T> ..just LOOK at a brand-new bioblob some time and tell me this little 
T> red wrinkly thing is anything other than an aesthetic disaster. 
 
Newborns are not particularily cute when they are first born, but after 
they are washed and so on, they can be adorable.  (Yes, I have seen 
some UGLY babies, but most are kinda cute.)   On the other hand, I must
agree with Saavik, babies can be a wonderful experience.  
===========

From: KYARA TOKYO         
To: ROBERT              
Subject: Moving along   
Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:32:53
Message Number 16161

  Kyara somewhat surprised by Robert returning her sword, takes it and 
places it next to her pack.  Upon seeing the gun she asks, "Why do you 
carry that around?  Is this place dangerous?"  
Robert says, "Are you just going to stand there, then, or are you 
going to sit down?' 
  
Kyara sits on the bad and motions for Robert to do the same.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Whips and chain
Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:14:59
Message Number 16162

>Hmmmm, that sounds like a game that wouldn't do much for Turtle, except
>maybe give him a few new bruises.....
 
Well, we only used whiffle ball bats and pillows.  I don't know where my
crowbar got off to.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Odd euphemisms.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:21:26
Message Number 16163

There's always the one coined by pilots..."Buying the farm."
(Or something like that...I NEED DEW!)
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Just a thought.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:32:26
Message Number 16164

>Oh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to delete them messages. Oops
 
Don't lose any sleep over it.  I stuck 'em in my buffer and have them
on magnetic media.  :)
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Volkswagen     
Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:59:26
Message Number 16165

The origin of the 'Thing' is quite interesting. Hmmm... They'd be handy 
for the soldier-of-fortune groups too, 'cause of the gun mount available
for them. *]:)
 
What's a sand rail?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Just a thought.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 15:19:59
Message Number 16166

R> Don't lose any sleep over it. 
 
I wasn't planning on it. 
 
R> I stuck 'em in my buffer and have them on magnetic media. :)
  
Now, I /am/ going to lost sleep over it. 
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Just a thought.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 15:56:24
Message Number 16167

R>I stuck 'em in my buffer and have them on magnetic media. :)
SS>Now, I /am/ going to lost sleep over it.
 
You really shouldn't lose any sleep over it.  It probably won't fall 
into her hands unless something happens to anger me.  A short list 
follows:
Breaking treaties in Risk.
Picking me up off the ground and flipping me around the x, y, /and, z
axis (this really ticks me off).
Drinking the last Dew.
Not receiving $8 a week (well, this we can let slide).
 
Of course, if I die a violent death, a letter containing the messages,
a map to your house (which The Specialist drew for me a while back) and
a pawn ticket for a local gun shop will be mailed to her.
 
But don't lose any sleep, it'd be bad for your health.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/27/91 16:46:47
Message Number 16168

SA>Still not smoking, eh, Steel?
 
Actually, he has started again.  I gave him two weeks, he beat me my 
1 day.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 16:48:42
Message Number 16169

T>Like kumquat, say, or tangelo? 
 
Leave it to you to come up with those type of fruits...something out of
the ordinary....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: T.V. evangelist
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:00:17
Message Number 16170

"Preacher talkin' on the TV
 Puttin' down rock'n'roll.
 Wants me to send a donation
 Cause he
 Cause he's worried about my soul.
 
 Says, "Jesus walked on the water."
 "And I believe it's true."
 I just believe that preacher'd
 Like to do a little walkin', too."
 
Originally a fairly good country song before ruined by a bunch of long-
hyar no-talent heavy metal hippies copying it!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: 15000          
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:04:38
Message Number 16171

SS>I do not date girls who wanna fool around. 
T>That's not an insecurity thing, is it?  May I assume from you that the
T>single most important thing about any relationship to you is sex?
 
What?  If a girl fools around, she probably fucks around, too.  I 
personally wouldn't want a girl who was busy screwing 3 other guys 
besides me.  Never know what her next "john" might give her that I'd 
get second hand.  KNOWHATTAMEAN?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Just a thought.
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:15:04
Message Number 16172

Your honor I throw myself on the mercy of the Aardvark.  
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Seeing women,  
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:16:27
Message Number 16173

TS> KNOWHATTAMEAN? 
 
*DING*
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:24:12
Message Number 16174

T>we can have people named "sprocket", "fork," "backgammon," or "clock"
 
Or Turtle even..... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:26:46
Message Number 16175

T>it takes about a hundred thousand bucks to get this bioblob his first 
  job at 18....there goes my Ferrari. 
 
Turtle, I am disappointed in you. Of all people, I figured you were NOT
a materialistic Yuppie DINK type...... I'm shattered. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:28:37
Message Number 16176

True, true, true....the marraige itself means nothing... only the 
relationship counts and you can have that without the piece of paper... 
The only time that little peice of paper comes in handy is in legal 
affairs..... well, for instance, IF there are children involved and one 
of you is ill or (shiver the thought) killed, the peice of paper insures
that the children will remain with the surviving parent and he/she will 
be able to sign documents for insurance purposes ect...... 
 
Society in a whole puts a lot of value on the marriage license, but it 
really doesn't mean anything more than two people had to fill out a lot 
of paperwork and pay some bucks to have a cerimony and make it legal.. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:32:46
Message Number 16177

Well, I don't like suspicion and again, I repeat, that was a poor choice
of words.... but caution is another story... Just about every 
relationship I have ever had has been an intimate and serious one, I hav
always been cautious at first, perhaps not outwardly or overly... but 
enough so that I didn't fall head over heels before I knew what I was 
getting into.... Wearing one's heart on one's sleeve is just like saying
"Here I am, hurt me...." 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not 15000      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:35:34
Message Number 16178

SS>...women are too confusing. 
SA>Oh, and men aren't
T> Nope. :) 
 
How do you figure men are any less confusing than women???? People in 
general are complex and each individual is a mystery until you really 
get to know them.... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Birth          
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:37:35
Message Number 16179

T>The repitle really, really destests children...especially the very 
  small variety. 
 
I've heard that before from people..... and years later, they happily 
munch on their own words while holding their newborn child in their arms
Maybe you are an exception....... but I find it hard to believe that you
"hate" children. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: BBS naked!    
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:40:34
Message Number 16180

Things that relax...... a glass of warm milk and a Darvoset or two.... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:42:07
Message Number 16181

T>...it (jealousy) primarily comes down to an expression of your own 
   insecurity. 
 
*ding*. (ahhhhhhhh)   
I believe that is true. Everyone (with maybe the execption of you and 
Jesus Christ) have insecurities... they say the main reason for sibling
rivalry is the insecurity about the parents ability to love both 
children equally, ect..... 
Most men that I have known who were VERY jealous, were also VERY
insecure about themselves, usually on a subconcious level. I can't 
handle that degree of Jealously..... I trust, and I need trust. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: VW again       
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:47:29
Message Number 16182

T>They're so easy to fix a child can do it, and parts for 'em generally
  cost about twelve bucks. 
 
So maybe that's why BugKnuts went out of business..... (local Bug repair
shop). 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Babies & You   
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:49:58
Message Number 16183

You bit me!!!!! Hmph! One day when you are old and gray, one of my 
children will stomp on you!!!!!!! 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Traps          
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:51:47
Message Number 16184

I should be able to go back to work sometime next week, the Doctor will 
let me know Monday for sure.... I can walk around a little, but mostly
I am supposed to be sitting or laying down. 
I had a cyst (sp) removed. Everything went well, but my lungs ache from 
the anesthesia (hangover, arg) Luckily there was no cancer (they thought
it might be a tumor or something). So even though I'm sore and druggy, 
I am relieved and happy... 
  
Macros? Did someone say Macros? 
Arf! Snarf! And other socially  acceptable attitudes!!!!!!! (macro city)
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: You're Preggers
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:55:56
Message Number 16185

SS>Now if they could artificially give you two sets of twins.... 
 
Bite your tongue, Bucko!!!!! No more rug rats here!!!!! Stick a fork in 
me, I'm done. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: doby           
Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:57:20
Message Number 16186

SS>Unless the dog gets mad at her....then she might be in trouble.... 
 
Not the nature of the beast... Saavik (the dog) is very submissive and
if you scold her (we never beat her or hit her) she will go outside and
sulk.... one Valarie fell on her, hard.... Saavik screamed but she didn'
try to bite Val.... I don't really think she would.... but she IS a dog,
and any dog will bite under certain circumstances. Dobermans tend to 
be very protective dogs who are good with "their" children. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: 15000          
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:01:17
Message Number 16187

SS>They still have 23 hours a day together (Assuming, of course, that 
   they are married or live together.)
 
And assuming they are lotto winners or unemployed. Actually the average 
couple spends one hour in the morning together before work and lets see,
from about 5:30 to 6:00 when they get off work to whenever they go to 
sleep.... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Whips and chain
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:05:49
Message Number 16188

RF>I don't know where my crowbar got off to. 
 
Turtle probably hid it in the same place he hid Kelly's whips and night-
stick. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:07:55
Message Number 16189

SA>Still not smoking, eh, Steel? 
TS>Actually, he has started again. 
 
Could of fooled me. By his hostile responces to Dragonfly (or was that 
KnightOwl?) I figured he was still withdrawling.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: 15000          
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:10:07
Message Number 16190

TS>Never know what her next "john" might give her that I'd get second 
   hand. KNOWHATTAMEAN? 
 
I do. When you sleep with someone, you sleep with everyone they've ever 
slept with and everyone that they evey slept with and so on and so on...
them there diesises (sp?) do get around. 
===========

From: P.WHIPPED           
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: dating         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:20:19
Message Number 16191

<something about not dating until you were 15>
  
i didn't start dating until i was 16....i never wanted to do the,"Hey
mom, wanna take me and a girl i like to the mall so we can see a movie
and then pick us up again in a couple of hours?  If so i'll be forced
to do the dishes, listen to you tell everyone about my date, and ask
my date all sorts of embarassing questions.
===========

From: P.WHIPPED           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Peyote         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:23:48
Message Number 16192

Peyote is a drug made from cactii(sp?)  It is black and you smoke it.
It looks really sick and makes you even sicker.  It is a mild hallucinic
that lasts for several hours.
===========

From: P.WHIPPED           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: dicked         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:28:01
Message Number 16193

Well it goes something like this....
  i am supposed to help take a friend to Philly (and eat some 
cheesesteaks), but we can't seem to be able to leave.  We are STILL
trying to find a place to rent us a car where we don't have to 
sell our souls to do so.   We went to a place today that said ,"sure
we'll rent ya a car."  So we go in, sit through about a half hour
of paper work, and as i was reading over the agreement the VERY LAST
line said that we couldn't take the car more than 100 miles from Tampa
AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHTTTTPPPPHHHHH.......
        go figure
===========

From: P.WHIPPED           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: toys           
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:32:45
Message Number 16194

Calm down Turtle, they never released them....i will help you make
one though if you really want....there's a middle school i'd like
to go to, to test it out.
===========

From: P.WHIPPED           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Volkswagen     
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:36:00
Message Number 16195

<The thing I wanna do is build a sand rail someday...>
   
With the tripod?
===========

From: P.WHIPPED           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: dicked         
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:38:15
Message Number 16196

you'll hear the whole story....whether you want to or not.
===========

From: P.WHIPPED           
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: cannibalism    
Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:40:46
Message Number 16197

Cannibalism isn't nearly as sick as many people think.
It has been practiced in almost all cultures whether they will
admit it or not.  Even in our oh so beloved Western culture.
What do you think this thing about Communion is?  (Let's all
celebrate here that some dude was tortured a coulple thousand years ago
and drink his blood and eat his body)
===========

From: DEATH FENNEC        
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/27/91 20:10:26
Message Number 16198

    Hmm.  I am having a really bad time figuring out some things, and I
think that I am going to go crazy.  Hmm.  Well, there is another problem
that has arisen.  This person has been thinking that I was going to stay
with them for the rest of my life, but when things started happening,
like the kid and all, then I have started to see the real world.  Oh 
well, I guess that I shall just become a vegetable the rest of my life.
    :sigh::
 
     /! Death Fennec -- ;>
===========

From: HACMAN              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: doby           
Date & Time: 04/27/91 20:19:53
Message Number 16199

Well mine has several toys of its own.  It seems as though this mut is
bent on destroying the toys.  he won't just play with'm, he wants to 
tear'm apart.  He's been sucessful on most of them.  We thought we had 
him when we got him a toy with no edges or anything he could get his 
teeth on.  Fooled us he did.  In a matter of a couple weeks, he figured 
a way to tear it up.  Hope he grows out of that.  Also REAL glad he
hasn't taken a likeing to the NEW furniture.  I really think he'd die
if he did.
                 Burney
===========

From: DEATH FENNEC        
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Kiddies        
Date & Time: 04/27/91 20:30:33
Message Number 16200

SA> You haven't /seen/ me in awhile!!!
 
      I don't have to see you to be able to be frlitatious towards you!
   :)
 
     /! Death Fennec -- ;>
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 00:42:36
Message Number 16204

TS> Leave it up to you to come up with those types of fruits... 
something out of the ordinary....
 
How about plantains or star fruit (also called passion fruit, I think)?
 
If veggies can be included, how about some purple caulliflour?
 
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: cannibalism    
Date & Time: 04/28/91 00:52:48
Message Number 16205

An excellent book to read is 'Alive'. It's about a soccer team that 
crashed in the Andes mountains, and had to resort to cannibalism.
 
It's a true story.
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: OOPS           
Date & Time: 04/28/91 00:56:56
Message Number 16206

To P. whipped:
 
I was mistaken... it was a rugby team...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:43:33
Message Number 16207

T> (Listing names for people)
 
S>Or "Blender," "Guitar," "Glass," ...
 
Yeah.
 
S>"Turtle," ...
 
Hey!
 
S>"Stool," ...the list could be endless.
 
How about "Liquidity," "Isomorphism," "Spring," "Penultimate," or "Axe"?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Relationships  
Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:45:57
Message Number 16208

T>That's not an insecurity thing, is it?
S>No. It's self-preservation... 
 
Really? Do tell.
 
T>Is sex the single most important part of a relationship? 
S>Sex is very important...[it] needs to be kept in its proper
S>perspective.
 
TRhen how is it that a sexual issue is guaranteed to destroy any
relationship with you? You claim that you will not tolerate a non-
exclusive sexual relationship, but I bet there aren't very many other
factors that are as certain to end a relationship with you, hmm? The
thing with the power to destroy something is the thing most critical
to it. Sex does, as you say, need to be kept in its proper perspective:
it is a valuable part of a relationship, but hardly the /foundation/
of a relationship. A relationship built in such a way that a sexual
issue will terminate it is a relationship built on air, you know? IMHO,
dishonesty or violation of trust ought to be better candidates for
"legitimate reasons to end a relationship" than some issue of sexual
fidelity, for God's sake!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:51:20
Message Number 16209

>As they say, it looks good on paper. But the fact still remains that
>we don't have total control of our emotions.
 
That's absolutely true. We do, however, have control over the sorts of
personal interactions we choose to engage in. The knowledge that being
hurt is worth the advantages doesn't make it hurt any less, but it does
allow you to /choose/ to continue to become intimate with people even
after you've been hurt.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Say how?       
Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:53:27
Message Number 16210

>Assuming that you, yourself, have never experienced jealousy, and
>therefore, must be rather secure about yourself. How did you manage to
>get so self-secure?
 
I have no earthly idea. I'm not sure a /lack/ of /insecurity/ is the
same thing as being /self-secure,/ for that matter. I think it's more
of a simple learning thing...I have been involved in enough open
relationships to /know/ that if my partner takes another lover, it
doesn't change anything about our relationship, same way I know that
if I drop a hammer it'll fall.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:59:26
Message Number 16211

T>[Remark about not allowing his emotions to control him]
S>Do you deal with them as a separate entity or do you integrate them
S>by over-riding them with logical.
 
Neither one. I simply don't allow my /behavior/ to be governed by my
/feelings/. On a practical sense, your feelings cannot dictate your
actions by themselves; they simply try to make you behave in a certain
way. You feel hungry, you feel horny, you feel angry, you feel afraid;
these feelings don't govern you. You don't eat because your hunger has
taken posession of your body; you eat because your hunger makes you
feel as though eating is a good thing to do. You still CHOOSE to eat.
You hit somebody not because your anger forces you to, but because you
choose to, with the knowledge that you are angry at this person. Your
physicla movements are still under your conscious control. Feelings,
by themselves, are incapable of any sort of independant expression.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: Volkswagen     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:04:35
Message Number 16212

>What's a sand rail?
 
It's a type of dune buggy--the kind with the open tubular-steel frame
around it.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: T.V. evangelist
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:07:06
Message Number 16213

>Originally a fairly good country song...
 
HA *snort* Now THERE'S an oxymoron..."good" and "country song" go
together like china and H-bombs, you know?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Not 15000 atall
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:08:16
Message Number 16214

>I personally wouldn't want a girl who was busy screwing 3 other guys
>besides me. Never know what her next "john" might give her that I'd
>get secondhand.
 
Oh, come off it. Stop creating false dichotomies and start thinking with
your other head. The fact that your partner has other lovers doesn't
mean she's busy screwing everything with a rod. I wouldn't want such
a partner, either, but that's not the type of thing I'm talking about...
I'm simply pointing out that not being able to tolerate the fact that
your dear beloved might ever even remotely entertain the thought of
anyone else is silly (and pathetic). As for catching something second-
hand: If you're sexually active that's a rish you take, period. Mature,
responsible adults can deal with that risk. If your partner is not a
mature, responsible adult, you've got problems that have nothing to do
with sex...and if she is, it's an irrelevant argument.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: DINK? Me??     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:12:32
Message Number 16215

>Of all people, I figured you were NOT a materialistic Yuppie DINK
>type...
 
I'm not. No Yuppie in me at all. I'd simply rather have a Ferrari than
a small, screaming child whose diapers need to be changed. C'mon, think
about it...what would you rather do, change diapers or slide it up to
160 on I-75? Be honest, now!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Not 15000      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:15:01
Message Number 16216

>How do you figure men are less confusing than women????
 
I don't...I was yanking your chain.
 
>People in general are complex...
 
*Ding*
 
>...and each individual is a mystery...
 
*Ding*
 
>...until you really get to know them.
 
*Klunk* People are still a mystery after you get to know them; they'r
just not as /much/ a mystery. People are like any other chaotic system--
sure, you can predict their behavior within certain parameters once
you're acquainted enough with 'em, but they'll still surprise you.
(Interpersonal relationships also exhibit flicker noise, a hallmark of
chaos theory, but that's another matter altogether.)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Birth          
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:18:16
Message Number 16217

T>The reptile really, really detests children...
S>I've heard that before...years later, they happily munch on their
S>own words...
 
Uh-huh. That's pretty much the stock response to my "I don't like
children". Then again, people say the same thing to anyone who says
"I don't like marriage," too, and I can say with a pretty damn high
degree of certainty that I ain't gonna be doing THAT any time in the
forseeable future.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:20:50
Message Number 16218

>Everyone...have [sic] insecurities...
 
Well, I'm inherently distrustful of any statement that starts with the
word "everyone," especially when discussing complex emotional issues,
but even granting your point that's still no reason for jealousy. You
don't have to be totally secure to have faith in your relationship, and
you can entertain doubts about the stability of your relationship
without becoming jealous over unrelated matters...and sexual matters are
not usually the real problem with a troubled relationship.
 
>I can't tolerate that degree of Jealousy...
 
I can't tolerate jealousy.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Babies & You   
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:24:41
Message Number 16219

>One day when you are old and gray, one of my children will stomp on
>you!!!!!!!
 
Turtles don't get old and gray...they just get more irritable. Besides,
if your children try to stomp on me I'll simply be forced to buy their
housing complex and evict 'em. Figure I oughta be able to turn the
money other people are busy spending to raise their kids into some
serious leverage by the time your children are large enough to come
a-stompin'.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Huh-uh         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:28:04
Message Number 16220

>When you sleep with someone, you sleep with everyone they've ever
>slept with and everyone that they've ever slept with...
 
Bunk. There is *no* sexually transmitted disease that has a 100%
transmission rate. Simple disease epidemology tells you that that theory
isn't worth the electrons it takes to write it on the screen. That
doesn't mean that there is *no* risk, mind you, not by a long shot...the
risk is real, and it most certainly calls for caution. It does not call
for hype and distortion, though, and the simple fact of the matter is
if you are hetersexual and don't abuse drugs intervenously you are
far more likely to die in a car accident on your way to a lover's house
than you are to contract a fatal STD from a lover even if you're pretty
adept at getting around. If you're appropriately cautious, selective in
your lovers, and conduct yourself with maturity and responsibility,
and you treat sex with the respect due to a powerful bond of friendship
and intimacy, the risks become very small indeed. And, like I mentioned
before, not being faithful to one partner does ***!!!NOT!!!*** mean you
or your lover will go around fucking every animate object in town.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: dating         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:34:58
Message Number 16221

>i didn's start dating until i was 16...
 
Hell, I didn't start 'til I was 18. I did take two girls to the senior
prom, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:37:04
Message Number 16222

>How about plantains or star fruit (also called passion fruit, I think)?
 
Um...I think star fruit are actually called "kiwi fruit". Passion fruit
is something else entirely.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: 16222          
Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:38:46
Message Number 16223

What a neato keen number! 16222...it's got kind of a ring to it.
Heh...more refined and subtle than an obvious number like 15000, too.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Just a thought.
Date & Time: 04/28/91 11:38:30
Message Number 16224

>Your honor I throw myself on the mercy of the Aardvark.
 
Hmm...Okay.
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Kiddies        
Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:18:52
Message Number 16226

(Just in case this isn't explained later...)
     
  Why were you in the hospital?  And I hope you get well.
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:20:45
Message Number 16227

... and we could have people who choose to nickname themselves after
animals, but I don't think that would be too likely...
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:24:31
Message Number 16228

>...I feel very strongly that in a society where almost all marriages
> fail, marriage is meaningless.
    
   When last I checked, the divorce rate was about 55%.  Forty-five
percent of something is not "almost all."
     
   Also, a majority of marriages fail early on in the relationship --
or after the children are off to college.  (This info might be a bit
outdated.)  Marriage may not be the most stable environment imaginable
for raising children, but (from the above) it tends to do a fair job.
    
   Right now, marriage is the only institution around which is expressly
for the raising of children. Until something new (and demonstrably 
better) comes along, we're stuck with it.  (BTW, does anyone know if
there exist statistics for unmarried couples: how long they stick 
together?  Of course, any data like that would be biased.)
     
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: cannibalism    
Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:49:41
Message Number 16229

   If you ever go to Mexico (or go to a TRUE Mexican restaurant), check
out the "Sopa Azteca" -- Aztec soup, also known as "Sopa de Tortilla."
Tomato soup base with avocado, cheese, tortillas, and chicken. Of
course, the REAL, original recipe had more to do with cannibalism.
(I've had it with cow's brains instead of cheese.)
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:57:15
Message Number 16230

Y'all, I've grown the stuff.  Here's a breakdown:
    
   Plantains:  A really huge banana, wonderful for frying, not so great
               raw. They're not as sweet as normal bananas.
    
   Kiwi: A tiny, ugly-looking fruit which is green on the inside. Sour-
         sweet taste, and really wonderful eating!
    
   Star fruit: Also known as "camambola" (Sp? My Webster's doesn't have
               this one.) A mild-tasting fruit: I only liked the shape.
     
   Passion fruit: Another, different fruit. Not related to any of the
                  above. (And I don't remember much about it.)
     
  Ya know, the amount of horse manure I had to cart actually DID teach
me something...
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: names          
Date & Time: 04/28/91 14:48:16
Message Number 16231

T> How about "liquidity", "isomorphism", "Spring", "Penultimate" or 
"Axe"?
 
Or.... "Polymorphonuclearlucocite"?
 
(it's a red blood cell)
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Volkswagen     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 14:55:12
Message Number 16232

T> [Describes a sand rail]
 
Oh.. I've seen them before... I didn't know they had a name of their own
though...
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 15:01:54
Message Number 16233

T> Um..I think star fruit are actually called "kiwi fruit".
I believe that you're mistaken... Kiwi fruit look like ape balls.What 
I'm referring to is yellow and is shaped like a star.
 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: dating         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:12:56
Message Number 16234

PW> ...i never wanted to do the, "Hey, mom,.......
 
god, that was funny..... And SOOOO true!!!  
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: Peyote         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:14:41
Message Number 16235

PW>It (peyote) looks sick and makes you even sicker. 
 
I think I'll pass....... 
 
PW>It is a mild hallucinic (sic) that lasts for several hours. 
 
Now I know I'll pass..... I see enough strange things that are real!!!! 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: P.WHIPPED           
Subject: dicked         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:17:10
Message Number 16236

Yep, you're dicked! Have you considered renting one of the small Uhaul 
trucks.... they are more expensive than car rentals but they don't have 
travel limitations. Sometimes you can work out a fair deal if they 
happen to have a truck they need driven back to that area..... 
How much /does/ it cost to rent a car to drive as opposed to bus tickets
or flying? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DEATH FENNEC        
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:21:52
Message Number 16237

Fennec, 
You can't live your entire life to suit and please someone else... 
if that person is important in your life, and will remain important no 
matter where you go or what you do, then tell them how important that 
they are to you, maybe it will reassure them.....
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: HACMAN              
Subject: doby           
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:24:42
Message Number 16238

Give your pup a frisbee to play with in the yard, they can grab onto
them easily and they still fly even after they eat half of it.... most 
dogs don't swallow the plastic, they just chew it up and spit it out. 
Beware some of those big rawhide thingies, they become soft and easy to 
swallow but they can block the intestines.... I used to be a Vet Tech, 
you wouldn't believe some of the things we pulled out of sick dogs. 
  
The Nylabone company makes a good bone that doesn't chew up, it gets 
teeth marks in it, but they really have to work their butts off to 
destroy it.... check em out. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DEATH FENNEC        
Subject: Kiddies        
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:27:37
Message Number 16239

DF>I don't have to see you to be frlitatious (sic) towards you! 
 
Well, thats true..... :)(:
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:29:42
Message Number 16240

How about colors....... "Purple, Rouge, Mauve, Magenta, Butternut,
Goldenrod, Green, Blue.... and so on. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: DINK? Me??     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:36:14
Message Number 16241

T>what would you rather do, change diapers or slide it up to 160 on 
  I-75? Be honest, now! 
 
Well, seriously, I wouldn't trade my kids for all the Ferrari's in 
Florida...(what are there? 3?)... I have created life.... little people
who will grow up and continue the chain of life..... I love them more 
than life itself.... A Ferrarri seems pale and shallow next to them.... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not 15000      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:39:32
Message Number 16242

T> *Klunk* 
  
Hehhe. I've never been *klunked* before. 
 
T)People are still a mystery after you get to know them: 
 
True, and thank God, eh? Think how boring it would be if you knew 
everything your friends were going to do before they did them... I 
mean, sometimes you can predict their responces but it's always exciting
when someone surprises you....... 
Incidently, what the *hell* is flicker noise?????  Is that, like, 
dolphin clicks??? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Birth          
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:43:13
Message Number 16243

Well, I've known a few people who said they'd never have kids and so far
they haven't and likely won't.... but every so often I see 'em weaken 
and actually smile at a baby........ 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:45:00
Message Number 16244

T>I can't tolerate jealousy. 
 
But it's always going to be a factor here on Earth... there are lots of 
jealous people. Maybe the situation you are in now deems that you don't 
have to deal with that emotion, but that's a rare situation.... jealousy
exists to some degree in (I won't say every) almost all relationships. 
 
I don't like jealousy, I don't like feeling it and I don't like seeing 
it.... but it exists so I will deal with it as long as it doesn't become
a major issue...... if it does, it's time to re-evaluate the 
relationship..... 
Like you've said yourself, each person is an individual, full of 
differances and complex emotions, ideas, expressions.... and relation-
ships are even more complex as they are a joining of two  complete 
individuals..... they are bound to be negitive emotions involved in 
most relationships...... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Huh-uh         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:51:43
Message Number 16245

I didn't and never said that not being faithful to one partner does 
not mean you or your lover will go around fucking every animate object
in town.... I'd never make a completely ridiculous statement like that. 
I'm only saying that if you sleep around, you are increasing your chance
of contracting something nasty..... you can be as selective as you pleas
but VD or AIDS isn't tatooed across someones forhead, Turtle..... 
you never know...... and the more chances you take.......
This isn't a good day and age to sleep around....... I mean, you gotta 
take your chances, I realize that.... but how do you know that you're 
partner is as selective as you are until you get to know him/her? And 
.......aw, never mind. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Kiddies        
Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:56:27
Message Number 16246

Drf?Why were you in the hospital? 
 
I had a cyst thing removed. No biggie..... they just thought at first 
it was a tumor or something and so I only had one day warning.... 
I'm ok now, just a little slow and sore....... 
 
Drf>I hope you get well. 
 
Thanks, I will be up and out soon. 
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Babies & You   
Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:13:35
Message Number 16247

SA>(Savvik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tongue out at Turtle)
T>Turtle bites Saavik.
 
Check.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Seriously now  
Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:15:48
Message Number 16248

SS>*yawn*
 
And, yet, I haven't seen you correct anyone lately...hmmm.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Relationships  
Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:34:17
Message Number 16249

No, I disagree.  Sexual fidelity is among the more important things;
this should be considered equally to dishonesty or violation of 
trust.  
 
  I repeat, if I'm going to be "with" a chick she will have to be as
"faithful" as I am -- and this INCLUDES sexuality.  If she violates
this "faithfulness" then this is basis for termination of the
relationship.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:37:44
Message Number 16250

T>...doesn't make it hurt any less, but it does allow you to /choose/
T>to continue to become intimate with people even after you've been
T>hurt.
 
Or not to.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say how?       
Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:39:52
Message Number 16251

IE, you have nothing to loose.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not 15000 atall
Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:43:24
Message Number 16252

T>Oh, come off it.  Stop creating false dichotomies and start thinking
T>with your other head.
 
Hey, fuck you.  I was thinking logically.  I quite plain and simple
don't want to catch anything that she might pick up from someone else.
 
T>The fact that your partner has other lovers doesn't mean that she's
T>screwing everything with a rod.  I wouldn't want such a lover, either,
T>but that's not the type of thing I'm talking about...I'm simply
T>pointing out that not being able to tolerate the fact that your dear
T>beloved might ever even remotely entertain the thought of anyone else
T>is silly (and pathetic).
 
And on the other hand, if she needs someone besides me, then quite
apparently she has no further need of me.  And if you can't understand
that I have no insecurities about whether or not she is "remotely 
entertaining" the idea of another lover has nothing to do with why I 
would have nothing to do with her then that seems rather "silly and
pathetic)".
 
T>As for catching something secondhand: If you're sexually active then 
T>that's a risk you take, period.  Mature, responsible adults can deal
T>with that risk.
 
Yes, and I do.  By eliminating said "risk"...by dropping the possible
carrier of said "risk"y sexual practices, ie, said promiscuous lover.
 
T>If your partner is not a mature, responsible adult, then you 
T>have problems that have nothing to do with sex
 
Wrong, I have no problems to speak of...I have no lover that wants to
sleep around.
 
T>and if she is [a mature responsible adult] then it's an irrelevant 
T>argument.
  
If she was a mature responsible adult, then she wouldn't sleep around.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: DINK? Me??     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:58:38
Message Number 16253

T>what would you rather do, change diapers or slide it up to 160 on
T>I-75?
 
You will never do iether of those...next?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: DINK? Me??     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 22:19:16
Message Number 16254

SA>I wouldn't trade my kids for all the Ferraris in Florida...
 
No?  How about just one or two?  Hell, I would.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Huh-uh         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 22:21:50
Message Number 16255

SA>I'm only sayin that if you sleep around, you are increasing your 
SA>chances of contracting something nasty....  
 
DING!
 
SA>You can be as selective as you like, but VD or AIDS isn't tattooed
SA>across someone's forehead, Turtle.  You never know
 
DING!
 
TURTLE:  Get the picture?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:13:41
Message Number 16256

>When last I checked, the divorce rate was about 55%.
 
You'd better check again. When last I checked, the divorce rate was
about 55% IN THE FIRST THREE YEARS ALONE. The overall rate is much
higher.
 
You may be content with being "stuck with" marriage, but I have too much
respect for the ideals it is /supposed/ to represent to have any truck
with it.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:16:34
Message Number 16257

>Ya know, the amount of horse manure I had to cart actually DID teach
>me something.
 
No shit.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: names          
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:17:28
Message Number 16258

>Or.... "Polymorphonuclearlucocite"?
 
Actually, that's "polymorphonuclearlucocyte," and strictly speaking it's
only a /human/ red blood cell...we humans are unique among shambling
simians and mammals in general in that mature human red blood cells have
no nucleus.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: Volkswagen     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:20:33
Message Number 16259

>I've seen [sand rails] before... I didn't know they had a name of their
>own though...
 
Most Bug variants do. The most popular Beetle derivatives are Baja Bugs,
dune buggies, and sand rails, and they're all distinct.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Names?         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:22:38
Message Number 16260

>How about colors...
 
It's been done. "Goldenrod" reminds me too much of obnoxious carbonless
forms, though. Didja ever notice how whenever you fill out some form
in penta-quadruplicate, you always get the goldenrod copy? God, I hate
that color!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: DINK? Me??     
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:23:52
Message Number 16261

>...(what are there? 3 [Ferraris in Florida]?)
 
There are more than that in Sarasota alone. I passed a beautiful
Testarossa a couple of days ago...
 
>[Children continue life, etc]
 
In case you haven't noticed, the planet's kind of overcrowded with
Homo Sapiens Sapiens as it is. You really love life? Try doing something
to stop widespread destruction of rainforests. When you consider how
fast we are exterminating entire /species/ of life (what are we up to
now, 500 species a year? Something like that), somehow passing on the
torch of life to a few more destructive and overblown simians seems
pale and shallow by comparison.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Flicker noise  
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:27:16
Message Number 16262

>Incidentally, what the *hell* is flicker noise?????
 
Flicker noise is a characteristic exhibited by a lot of chaotic systems.
It's the type of unpredictable state transitions you see in a non-
continuous chaotic system that displays brief, drastic state changes
between periods of apparant stability. If you want to see it i action,
just turn over an hourglass...the sand'll pile up to a certain point
nice and quiet-like, then suddenly landslide to a new state, and pile
up quietly, and landslide. A common characteristic is that tiny changes
in the system--the addition of /one/ grain of sand--can cause a sudden
catastrophic change in the system, and it is absolutely impossible to
predict the magnitude of the change except in certain broad limits
(there will always be more small changes than large changes, for
example). Also, the ratio of small to large shifts is relatively
constant over any number of iterations, meaning that the behavior of the
system is fractal, and if you plot the number of shifts of various
magnitudes over a given number of transitions you'll get a nice, smooth
curve. Any chaotic system that behaves this way is said to exhibit
flicker noise. I brought it up because I was thinking about chaos theory
about a week ago and noticed that some relationships I've seen work the
same way--the system tends to drive itself to the brink of instability,
then realign drastically at a seemingly trivial change. You know, like
couples who seem perfectly happy until--whammy!--the slightest stress
explodes into a major confrontation way out of proportion to whatever
caused the stress in the first place. All systems which exhibit flicker
noise can /seem/ to be perfectly solid and stable while actually being
a hairbreath away from disaster, so one grain of sand or one trivial
disagreement can cause the whole thing to come crashing down. They're
non-linear, see, and...hell, I'm out of space.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:36:05
Message Number 16263

T>I can't tolerate jealousy.
S>But it's always going to be a factor here on Earth.
 
So are hatred and fear and greed and selfishness, but that doesn't mean
I gotta have any truck with them either. I don't grok jealousy, I don't
understand it, and I have very little patience for it. I will not become
involved in a relationship with a jealous or overly posessive partner.
Yes, I've had to deal with it occasionally, butthat doesn't mean I have
to tolerate it, any more than I have to tolerate dishonesty or any other
violation of trust.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Huh-uh         
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:39:50
Message Number 16264

>This isn't a good day and age to sleep around.......
 
No age has /ever/ been a good day and age to sleep around, with the
sole exception of that brief interlude between the discovery of
penecillin and the advent of the first antibiotic-resistant microbes.
What people don't realize is that the existance of an incurable
sexually-transmitted disease that can kill you isn't some new horror,
it's been the norm for almost all of human history. There has been
exactly /one/ generation in all the time since the advent of man that
could say it didn't have to worry about dying of something contracted
from a lover.
 
Yes, AIDSD and other STD's are a risk. So is driving your car...in fact,
driving your car is several orders of magnitude more dangerous than
sex. It's a matter of /relative/ risk. Do you realize that your chances
of being struck by lightning are about three times greater than your
chances of contracting AIDS via hetersexual sexual intercourse with a
person chosen at random from somewhere inside the United States? You're
more likely to get hepatitis-B than AIDS from normal sexual intercourse,
and I don't notice any widespread fear of hepatitis or any radical
change in anyone's sexual behavior because of it. And, sure 'nuff,
hepatitis can kill you.
 
I'm not downplaying the risk of contracting a sexually transmitted
disease from casual or careless sex, and I'm certainly not advocating
going out and sleeping around. I /am/ rational about the risk of STD's,
though, and I /am/ rational about being careful to avoid them and
behaving in a responsible manner when I'm in a sexual situation. People
who don't take steps to protect themselves when they're having sex are
idiots, just like people who don't wear seatbelts are idiots...but the
fact that driving a car and engaging in sexual intercourse both have
risks is not, by itself, a valid reason not to drive or have sex. I
think, though, that
<continued next message>
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: <continuing>   
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:49:30
Message Number 16265

...that the thing that bothers me the most about the current popular
reaction to AIDS is this smug, self-important idea that this is a
new thing, that if it wasn't for /this thing/ we could go back to the
way things /ought/ to be, like they were /before/, where dying from
some disease you got while having sex was just /so/ unheard of...you 
know, the "love shouldn't kill" mindset that finds it so utterly
appalling that you can't fuck indiscriminately without fear of anything
worse than an inconvenient trip to the doctor for a shot of penecillin.
For a brief instant it was there, and now that things are back to normal
everyone's reacting like Donald Trump when he found out his credit had
run out..."you simply /can't/ do this to us!" Grr...that bugs me.
But, I think I shall stop ranting now before I /really/ get going...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Relationships  
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:54:33
Message Number 16266

>Sexual fidelity is among the more important things; ...
 
Why? As long as she isn't doing anything behind your back, why? What's
so goddamn special about sexual intercourse that isn't equally special
about non-sexual intimacy or any other type of close, personal
type of relationship? Or would you also get annoyed if you saw your
lover engaged in a physically intimate, close, non-sexual relationship
with another man? Is it okay if she kisses another man as long as she
doesn't (pardon) fuck him as well, or is that off-limits too? Where
do you draw the line, and why?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Say what?      
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:58:07
Message Number 16267

>Or not to.
 
*Ding* Either way, the choice is yours...you make the decision, not some
blind, senseless emotion.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Say how?       
Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:59:06
Message Number 16268

IE, you have nothing to lose.
 
Hmm. I'm not sure that's really the same thing. I know for a fact that
if my partner takes another lover it has no bearing whatsoever on our
relationship, if that's what you mean...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Not 15000 atall
Date & Time: 04/29/91 00:00:49
Message Number 16269

>If she had need of another lover, she quite obviously has no further
>need of me.
 
Voop! Voop! Voop! Non-sequitur alert! That one doesn't even begin to
make it as a valid statement. First off, you don't take another lover
because you "need" another lover; second off, a relationship had best
be based on needs other than sex if it's gonna get anywhere...if your
partner has no need of you out of bed, you have a problem.
 
>If she was a mature responsible adult, then she wouldn't sleep around.
 
Having an open relationship is not the same thing as having a lover that
"sleeps around," although I most sincerely doubt I will be able to make
you understand that. In any event, that statement doesn't hold water
even if you /do/ accept the idea that if your relationship is open your
partner will "sleep around".
===========

From: ROBERT              
To: KYARA TOKYO         
Subject: Moving along   
Date & Time: 04/29/91 00:34:08
Message Number 16270

"Dangerous? No. No, not really. Old 'abits die hard, that's all. You
will forgive if I am curious about your weapon of choice, though.
Can't say I've met any wandering ronin before." He sits down next to
Kyara and continues, "I've just realized I've been most unspeakably
rude, though. I didn't answer your earlier question. 'Ow bloody
thoughtless of me! No, I don't assume you've 'ad martial arts training
just because of your race. My word, no. Can't really put my finger on
what it is about you, but there it is." He brushes her hair back away
from her neck and lightly traces the curve of her shoulder with the tip
of one finger, then begins to massage her shoulders. "I suppose one
can't be too careful, though."
===========

From: SHANDRA             
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Trouble?       
Date & Time: 04/29/91 00:48:56
Message Number 16271

Trouble brewing somewhere nearby? That's putting it mildly. My tail
twitches up over my shoulder and I start gnawing on the end of it--
an old habit I've never been able to break. "Something weird's going
down around here. My guess is it's something to do with a bunch of
mercenary special-forces types. Someone certainly seems to have had
a falling out with our friend over there. Even odds that it doesn't
involve us directly. We just happen to be in the crossfire. It still
don't add up, though. Something don't feel right." I twitch my tail back
down where it belongs and coil it around my leg, to resist the
temptation to start biting it again. "I don't know," I say again
unnecessarily. "This has a real funny vibe to it, not military, not
spook, not S.A.G., but I still got this feeling like things are getting
set to go shitstorm on us. We still got that emergency generator in the
shed? I think I'll have Louis start tying things down. Where's Robert?"
I look over to his table and notice that the young lady--what was her
name?--isn't there any more. He hasn't returned from his ritual morning
walk yet, either...oh, great. Fine time to think about getting laid, I
think to myself. Bastard. I notice my tail has come unwound and is
lashing the air behind me. All this time and that sonofabitch can still
get to me. "Well, I got stuff to do, so I won't detain you. I'll keep
my eyes open, though. Be careful."
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/29/91 01:59:36
Message Number 16272

DF> Ya know, the amount of horse manure I had to cart actually DID teach
DF> me something.
 
T> No shit.
 
ROFL!
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: spelling..     
Date & Time: 04/29/91 02:01:48
Message Number 16273

I wasn't too sure whether to use an 'i' or a 'y'; so I took my chances.
 
Ya gotta admit though, it would be one hell of a name to be stuck with,
especially if your job requires your signiture frequently.
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: cars           
Date & Time: 04/29/91 02:04:45
Message Number 16274

Have you ever seen a Volvo 1800 E?
They're pretty neat cars.
 
As for cars in general, I don't like any of the cars that have been 
produced in the past several years.
 
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: jealousy       
Date & Time: 04/29/91 02:10:06
Message Number 16275

In reading your point of view on the subject of jealousy; I am curious 
about something.
 
Are you an only child?
 
the reason I ask, is that being one greatly diminishes your exposure to 
"intr - people" emotions in the early years of life.
 
===========

From: ODEN                
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: Kiwi Fruits    
Date & Time: 04/29/91 13:58:27
Message Number 16276

>Kiwi fruit look like ape balls.
 
 Argh! blah! you wont catching my eating one of those things again! 
 whatta thought... ewwue... next time you are at the supermarket, pick 
one up and fondle it. bet you will make a weird face and put it down 
promptly. well, unless ofcourse you like ape balls. thats you... heh.
          -Oden
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/29/91 14:18:40
Message Number 16277

>I think star fruit are actually called "kiwi fruit".
 
Nope...star fruit are star shaped (hence the name) yellow fruits.  Kiwi
fruit are those little brown furry fruits.  If I can dig up the fact
sheet on Star Fruits I'll bring it by...
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:21:53
Message Number 16278

I'd love to hear of someone named "and so on."
    
   Now that we've run out of nouns to call people, what about other
parts of speech? (Skip the interjections.)
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Kiddies        
Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:24:48
Message Number 16279

>I had a cyst thing removed.
     
   If I'd never met you, I would have been convinced I knew who you are.
At the same time you were in the hospital, another friend of mine was
also in the hospital, getting a cyst removed...
      
   Keep on getting well, and keep your chin up!
   (And hope die Kinder don't drive mommy crazy.)
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Relationships  
Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:27:09
Message Number 16280

(Mein Gott, do we agree on something?)  I consider sexual fidelity to be
a part of trust: if the relationship is set up with sexual fidelity in
the mind of both partners, that's a part of the trust.
     
   Yes, my relationship with Jenn weathered a lot of storms... but, in
the end, the thing that killed it was not sexual fidelity, nor lack of
trust -- just the subtle distancing that comes of two people not sharing
enough experiences together.  (And, what's confusing: She seems to be
coming back! Waaaaah.)
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Whoops...      
Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:31:23
Message Number 16281

(I feel better, now. We do disagree.)
    
> I quite plain and simple don't want to catch anything that she might
> pick up from someone else.
     
   That's a perfectly logical and rational reason to insist on mutual
monogamy.  No -- she might not catch something (or he might not) if 
[s]he sleeps with someone else who is infected... but why take chances?
    
> And on the other hand, if she needs someone besides me, then quite
> apparently she doesn't need me.*
    
   *Klank!*  Huh?  That makes no sense whatsoever.  The fact that you
might not be able to satisfy all of your girlfriend's needs does NOT
mean she doesn't need you.
   
   In my relationship with Jenn, we were (and still are!) very close 
friends.  But we didn't share all of the same interests.  We both enjoy
certain things (cooking, science fiction, and unusual movies), but we
both have some very different interests and different friends.  I can't
talk with her about certain topics, because I know next to nothing about
them:  she turns to other friends for that.  I can't talk with Jenn
about all of my interests, because she knows next to nothing about them.
(For example, I can't talk "math" to her, without taking about an hour
to explain the basic concepts first.)
    
   We learned very quickly in our relationship that we CAN'T be every-
thing to each other... but that it didn't matter.  As long as we had
each other for the emotional support, and as long as we shared interests
in common, we were still in love.
   
> ...I have no lover that wants to sleep around.
    
   I sure didn't!  And neither did Jenn!  A person can't control whether
they want to sleep around or not: but they can control whether or not
they actually sleep around.
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Explanation    
Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:51:15
Message Number 16282

(Whoops. That last part might have been a bit unclear.  I meant that
both Jenn and I /wanted/ to sleep around. Sorry.
                        //Dragonfly//
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: You're Preggers
Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:58:36
Message Number 16283

SA> Stick a fork in me, I'm done. 
 
Okay.  *STAB*...scream.....nope, she's still alive and kicking, she's 
not done yet.   
  
I hope that's not prophetic.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: 15000          
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:00:54
Message Number 16284

Yes, what you said about the actual amount of time they send together is
true, but....you are /still/ married every minute of every day.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fruits         
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:06:19
Message Number 16285

Speaking of weird names in general, I heard of this one set of parents 
who did something rather cruel to their daughter....The family surname 
was Falls.  And they named their daughter, "Water."  I heard that these
parents didn't mentally survive the drug era of the 60's too well, and 
hence a daughter named, Water Falls. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Relationships  
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:13:13
Message Number 16286

A sexual issue will destroy a relationship with me, that is true, but so
will dishonestly and violation of trust.  I have sometimes forgiven 
unfaithfulness, and lies, and breeches of my trust, but I don't like to.
I'm not going to enter a relationship if I know that the girl wants to 
see other people....usually that kind of information is learned in the 
beginning of a relationship.
T> A relationship built in such a way that a sexual issuse will 
T> terminate it is a relationship built on air, you know? 
 
Wrong...A relationship where intimacy is exclusive shared allows for the
two people to get closer to each other.  It allows for a /stronger/ 
foundation to be built.  It is pure foolishness to allow yourself to get
very close to someone who has other lovers, you are virtually guaranteed
to get hurt.  But, if you and your mate are only having sexual 
interaction with another, it can add to the cohesiveness of the 
relationship. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say how?       
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:22:05
Message Number 16287

T> I have been involved in enough open relationships to /know/ that if 
T> my partner takes another lover, it doesn't change anything about our
T> relationship....
  
That's bullshit and you know it....hypothetically speaking, how you feel
if I was interested in Kelly.  Would you not feel threaten by me?  
 
To make a more obvious point, if one of your lovers in an open 
relationship decides to remain faithful to one of her other lovers, 
then she has just changed something in your relationship.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not 15000 atall
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:28:57
Message Number 16288

T> I'm simply pointing out that not being able to tolerate the fact that
T> you dear beloved might ever even remotely entertain the thought og 
T> (of) anyone else is silly (and pathtic).
  
We are not talking about /thoughts/, we are talking about actions.  I 
wouldn't care if my girlfriend thought about other men, or fantasized 
about other men.  That has nothing to do with anything.   I will not
tolerate her seeing someone else while we are together.  Just as a 
clarifier, I have been in relationships where it was /established/ at
the outset, that /we/ could see other people..In that kind of 
relationship, I don't even bother trying to get close to that person, 
basically, we would spend some time together, but we were just a 
fuck-buddy for the other.  Nothing more.  If I want a meaningful 
relationship with someone, then I stipulant that neither her and 
myself will be involved with anyone.  If she finds this not to her 
liking, she knows where the door is. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Seriously now  
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:47:48
Message Number 16289

TS> And, yet, I haven't seen you correct anyone lately....hmmmm. 
  
I an human, believe it or not.  I just don't feel like correcting 
/every/ error that goes by.  But don't worry, I'll still correct errors
occasionally, as always. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Say how?       
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:50:35
Message Number 16290

TS> IE, you have nothing to loose. 
  
Isn't that spelled, "lose"?
   
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Not 15000 atall
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:54:08
Message Number 16291

*Ding* 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: DINK? Me??     
Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:56:53
Message Number 16292

T>.....Trying doing something to stop widespread destruction of 
T> rainforests.
  
And what have you done for this planet's eco-system?
You're awfully self-righteous lately. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Relationships  
Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:03:01
Message Number 16293

T> Where do you draw the line, and why? 
  
If I am involved in a serious relationship with a woman, I will not 
tolerate her FRENCH-kissing another man.  (I don't have a problem with 
a normal kiss exchanged between two people.)  I will be faithful to 
her, and she will be faithful to me, if not, she's history.  Period. 
Anything from french kissing to sleeping together.  That's where I 
draw the line.  
Now, for the 'why' portion of your question.  
  
  Because I feel that if two people are intimate with one another 
then that relationship can be allowed to run deep emotionally.  If, on 
the other had, no commitment is made, and therefore, you can sleep
with whoever you choose, then I question your depth of feeling for your 
lover. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Say how?       
Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:11:11
Message Number 16294

T> I know for a fact that if my partner takes another lover it has no
T> bearing on our relationship. 
  
Bullshit!  That's bullshit and you know it.  (Refer to my post where I 
draw a hypothetic scenario for Turtle.)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Relationships  
Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:28:48
Message Number 16295

T>Why?  What's so goddamn special about sexual intercourse that isn't 
T>equally special about non-sexual intimacy of any other type of close,
T>personal type of relationship?
 
Hmmm...could it be, the exchange of bodily fluids?
 
T>Or would you also get annoyed if you saw your lover engaged in a 
T>physically intimate, close, non-sexual relationship with another man?
 
What the hell's a "physically intimate, close, non-sexual relationship"?
How the hell can you have a "physically intimate non-sexual 
relationship"?  That's like flying without getting up in the air! 
Physical intimacy implies sexual relations!
 
T>Is it okay if she kisses another man as long as she doesn't...fuck
T>him as well, or is that off limits too?  Where do you draw the line,
T>and why?
 
Is it ok?  Hell, no!  I draw the line at exchange of bodily fluids...
for lack of a better distinction.  But then again, I'm not interested
in "sharing" my lover.  
 
To wit: I was talking about faithfulness; I included sexual fidelity 
as part of my prerequisites.  I am not willing to share my lover with
anyone, and so, if she feels like someone else then have at it...without
me.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not 15000 atall
Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:43:43
Message Number 16296

T>First off, you don't take another lover because you need one,
 
The opposite of that this that you take another lover because you want
one...which means that you are not completely satisfied with the first 
one.  And if you are not completely satisfied with the first one, it's 
time you found one that you _are_ completely satisfied with.
 
T>...second off, a relationship had best be based on needs other than
T>sex if it's gonna get anywhere...
 
(sarcastic:) Ding.
 
T>...if your partner has no need for you out of bed, you have a problem.
 
No, I no longer have that particular lover.  IE, no problem. 
 
T>Having an "open relationship" is not the same thing as having a lover 
T>that "sleeps around"
 
No, but it is the next "best" thing.  If you have to lovers, and she has
two lovers, and they have two lovers, and so on...and so on...somethings
BOUND to come your way, sooner or later.  And if just ONE of those
"oh, i don't care" fag fuckers happens to come in contact with your 
cozy little pyramid...well, it was nice knowing ya, Turtle.  
 
T>although I most sincerly doubt I will be able to make you understand 
T>that.
 
Oh, I understand...I just hope that you catch wind of what I'm trying
to put across. 
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Whoops...      
Date & Time: 04/29/91 18:01:28
Message Number 16297

Ok, so look at it like this: in a world of absolutes, which I live
in (absolutely) if I can take no other lover than my current lover,
then she can have no other as well.  With this in mind, consider:
She is not completely happy with the sex aspect of our relationshipm
so in a fit of pique, she decides to try someone else.  Rather than h
have this happen, I would rather she broke up with me *before* she
took someone else, because until she found out if she was *clean* after
that, I wouldn't want to sleep with her.  Abosolutely, no exceptions.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: UBAFTM         
Date & Time: 04/29/91 18:12:21
Message Number 16298

Ok, Turtle...you need to sign on to UBAFTM...
===========

From: HACMAN              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM
Date & Time: 04/29/91 20:14:14
Message Number 16299

And what would your ideal marriage be like?  Trusting, committed
relationship?  Lasting how long?  Forever?  Several partners involved?
For myself, I have been married for 7 years.  I love my honey more 
now than before.  Sure, we've had our problems..who hasn't?  But a 
truely idealic marriage doesn't exist (except the Beavers parents
marriage) and who really believs that type of marriage exists or
ever existed.  A good marriage is possible, but not without bumps.  I 
Don't think the type of marriage that won't make /you/ ill EVER
existed.  Sure you can quote me statistics on divorce rates and such,
but there would be just as many then if it was as easy as today to get 
one.  If two people want to make it work they can...yesterday, today,
AND tomorrow.
My point:  I'm not really sure....
                     Burney
===========

From: HACMAN              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Birth          
Date & Time: 04/29/91 20:31:52
Message Number 16300

I agree with both of you...sorta.  A newborn can be just what a couple
want...and therefore, it is beautiful(in there eyes).  On the other 
hand, to someone who doesn't care for children, there aint much you can
say/do to convince'm otherwise.  Myself included.  I personally do not
want children.  Thank God my wife doesn't either.  As far as eating
our words, I dont think we ever will.  It is our choice and someone 
cannot change our minds.  If we change our  minds in the future, our
perspective will change.  I do not "detest" children, I just dont 
want anything to do with them.  If someone else wants them, fine by me.
                         Burney
===========

