

#: 13495 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    16-Dec-91  08:54:53
Sb: #13490-OS-9000 comments part 2
Fm: Timothy J. Martin 71541,3611
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

I need to spend a bit more time with OS-9000 before too many more comments.
I've got something else going at the moment, then I'll be back to OS-9000.

#: 13513 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Dec-91  09:44:16
Sb: #13490-OS-9000 comments part 2
Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

I got my flyer on 'MShell' today.  Sounds like a very nice improvement for
sure.  But @ $300 a whack, I'm not sure how many they'll sell to us hobbyists.
Who knows.

They even added a batchfile editor into the new shell.  Plus, (Finally), allow
command line editing.  Wonder where they got that idea? <g>  Only took a few
years. ;-)  Also, there is a shell programming language now.  Sounds like a
nice addition to the OS-9 package and sure would come in handy.

Mike



#: 13496 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  09:15:12
Sb: #13442-#Ident Stock RBF?
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Sometimes the answers to questions and problems are physical and not logical.

Is Ed 27 causing some sort of problem?

Can you give a hint as to the "Xmas gift" you're preparing...???

Are there any PD docs or descriptions of K-Windows that are available for our
perusal?

Lee

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13502 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  18:17:52
Sb: #13496-#Ident Stock RBF?
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

Lee - nope, no problem with Ed 27 (or 28) RBF.

The Christmas gift has been uploaded to Lib 10... "RBF29.AR".

That't the L-II upgrade RBF, which includes being able to undelete files
(assuming you haven't reused the file LSNs in the meantime, of course :-). It
also includes an "undel" command.

Both were done by Bob Santy, and I figured after all the postings we see about
people accidentally deleting huge files, that the new RBF would make a nice
present this year.  It sure has saved MY tail many times!  ;-)

cheers - kev

PS: alas, no decent descriptions of K-Windows yet.  Working on it!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13503 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  19:29:59
Sb: #13502-#Ident Stock RBF?
Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

I just installed RBF edition 29 on my system. I LIKE IT. I've only had a few
minutes to play with undelete  so far but it looks good. If only I had had it
the last time I deleted a large file from the hard drive. Again, many thanks.
Ernie.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13507 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  21:50:17
Sb: #13503-#Ident Stock RBF?
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X)

Ernie - yeah, I'm only sorry that I didn't upload it before now!

Hope it works okay... it suddenly hit me that it may have some other stuff
changed in it that might affect user permissions... but I'm not sure.

But I've been using it for a lonnng time with zero problems.  So let me know if
anything goes wrong (it shouldn't).

thx! - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13518 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Dec-91  17:30:14
Sb: #13507-Ident Stock RBF?
Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

I played with undel for a while last night and had no problems at all. If
anything changes, I'll let you know. Again, thanks.

Ernie.



#: 13541 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Dec-91  22:02:31
Sb: #13414-Ident Stock RBF?
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

    Edition #28 here. Is that a problem?

#: 13498 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  09:44:20
Sb: #Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: All

Is there a hard drive surface analysis program available for OS9 Lvl 2? (either
pd, sw or commercial).

Also, is there an article available that explains the ramifications of the
interleave values for hard drives?

Lee

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13499 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  12:54:23
Sb: #13498-#Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

Lee -

Kreider used to have one called .. hmm... forgot. Might have been 'hcheck'.
Essentially, it read a whole track (well, a track's worth of sectors in one
'read()'), and if it got any errors it'd go back and isolate the offending
sector. Fairly fast. It'd be trivial to rewrite - just get the disk's info from
the path descriptor, and go to town.

Re: interleave... hmmm. I may have cranked some of that stuff into the SAS.TXT
arcticle of some years back. If not, what did you want to know?

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13514 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Dec-91  10:03:40
Sb: #13499-#Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Re: interleave...  I'm trying to find something that lays down some kind of
criteria that can be used to make a "somewhat" informed choice about what the
interleave factor should be.  Or lacking that, a rule of thumb that is a
generally accepted method of selecting an interleave value. I've been using the
W.A.G. method, but I've been wondering lately if there's some sort of better
method to help us along these lines.

Lee



There are 2 Replies.

#: 13515 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Dec-91  11:37:43
Sb: #13514-#Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

There is a utility in one of the Libs called MegaRead that will do this. You
will need to format the drive, run MegaRead and time the results, format the
drive with a different interleave, run MegaRead and time the results, and so on
until you get the best time.  That's your interleave setting. BRO LIB:ALL
KEY:INTERLEAVE to find it.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13519 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Dec-91  17:56:04
Sb: #13515-#Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Thanks for the help.

The reason I started wondering about interleave at all is because that I saw
two different interleave values $10 and $16 on two different descriptors and I
don't know why the difference.  It might have been a finger check as opposed to
an actual cognitive decision to have them different, but it got me to wondering
if the number really made any difference, or if whether OS-9 really even cared.

Lee

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13524 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Dec-91  22:05:05
Sb: #13519-#Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

I may be wrong (which is why I'm posting a similar question) but from what I
know this is how I think it works.  Don't take it as gospel unless someone who
really knows confirms this.  When you do a physical format the interleave is
set based on the ilv= setting in the /h0 descriptor assuming you are using OS-9
to do the format (I have to use DECB and the BASIC program leaves no clues on
changing the interleave).  And once this interleave is set the value in your
descriptor no longer matters, and nothing short of a full physical reformat
will let you try out a different interleave setting.  Until you hear from
someone else, try changing your ilv= with dmode without reformatting the drive.
Run MegaRead and see if you get a different time from before you run dmode.  As
long as you don't cobbler, save, etc. your dmode experiments will not remain in
effect upon your next boot.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13533 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Dec-91  09:17:36
Sb: #13524-Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

I think you're correct.  The ILV value determines, as I understand it, what
physical sequence the sectors are written in.  They're still numbered from 0 to
whatever (logically), but physically sector 0 is not necessarily going to be
followed immediately by sector 1.

The interleave parameter is probably ignored for normal reads and writes, i.e.
those writes done in a formatting mode.

Lee



#: 13516 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Dec-91  14:01:30
Sb: #13514-Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

Lee -

The best approach is empirical... that is, try it and see how it goes.

A good trick is to format only the first several cylinders of your hard drive,
and then run a tool like 'megaread' or whatever to check the times for reading
a block of bytes/sectors. Then, reformat with a different interleave and try
again. Use what's best for your system. This is a composite function of hard
drive, interface, cpu speed, interrupt latency, and driver effiency - that's
why there's no set formula.

Pete

#: 13505 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  19:55:21
Sb: #13498-Hard Drive Analysis
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

I got Burke & Burke's File System Repack 1.1; it comes with CCheck, a checker
for any RBF device.  It will nondestructively test every sector and optionally
more than once and optionally allocate bad sectors in the bitmap.  You can have
it forcibly allocate known bad sectors after a intentional (hopefully) reformat
of the hard drive saving some test time. Since it is nondestructive, it will
replace each sector as it is written to read back, and so on.  CCheck is slow. 
It took 11 hours to check my 65Meg drive.

#: 13500 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    16-Dec-91  17:58:10
Sb: MM/1 Windows
Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

I read about the windowing system upgrade for the MM/1 on the IMS BBS. Put my
name on the list for the update.

Thanks, Ernie.



#: 13504 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Dec-91  19:47:26
Sb: #13489-GFX2 vs. GFX2
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

That may well be the problem.  I once got a "Cant't find GShell" when I
IPatched for the new GShell, and that's what the problem was.  And today I was
having problems compiling some downloaded C source.  You guessed it: attr
./cmds/cc2 e fixed it.  I don't recall whether my download of the IPatch
utility came with source code.  If so, I'm going to have to add a little extra
code to do this automatically then re- compile/assemble. After all, I've yet to
hear of something other than a module being IPatched. The shell wouldn't be the
problem in this case.  What I did was rename grfdrv grfdrv.bak.  Then I used
/d0/cmds/grfdrv as the newfile so IPatch would drop it right on the boot disk.

#: 13506 S9/Utilities
    16-Dec-91  19:59:23
Sb: #scsi47 descriptors
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: all

I have looked over once again the scsi47.ar package.  I see that the
descriptors are addressed for the 2-in-1 and the 4-in-1.  I have neither: just
HDISK.  So if it makes a difference which one should I use?  I know now that I
can pick the cchdisk.dr easily because there is only one in the set (g).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13509 S9/Utilities
    16-Dec-91  21:52:15
Sb: #13506-#scsi47 descriptors
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Isn't the single board just the 2-1 board placed on a mostly empty bus board?

kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13510 S9/Utilities
    17-Dec-91  02:30:24
Sb: #13509-#scsi47 descriptors
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Maybe, I just don't know.  The HDisk board looks like that.  There is a lot of
empty space and there is one such space labeled as being for a 6551.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13511 S9/Utilities
    17-Dec-91  02:47:35
Sb: #13510-scsi47 descriptors
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Yeah, that sounds like the 2-1 board, I'm almost positive.

#: 13508 S15/Hot Topics
    16-Dec-91  21:51:36
Sb: #13493-MM/1 delivery
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Yup.  Now, there was a recent message on the BITNET mailing list that forwarded
some stuff about the new Insite floptical drive.  Evidently it's $385, and the
20 Mbyte floppies for it are $10 a shot.  /

Pretty tempting for transport medium (so that Kevin could stop ragging me about
not sending him my hard drive :-), and beats plain old floppies for backup.

Will have to research further, and of course, there'd be a driver to write, but
it's kind of appealing.

#: 13521 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Dec-91  19:57:05
Sb: #13477-MM/1 delivery
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

That's not as much as I expected.  Maybe by the time I can afford one they'll
be real cheap!  :)

  --Colin

#: 13529 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Dec-91  23:59:00
Sb: #13473-MM/1 delivery
Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

  Well Glen, what may be a waste of time for me won't necessarily be a waste of
time for you, so I'll let you poke around on your own  ;-)  .

  In general, you're out of luck with any of the sound capabilities for now, as
well as anything requiring a mouse - i.e. Mark's SKEL program, the paint
program, newdir, etc.
  Although, now that I think of it, Kevin may have posted a patch to the COCO
list on using the mouse with /t0... Kev, what's the scoop???

  I'm really anxious to try out the sound capabilities of the machine - I'd
like to try patching the error handler to say "I'm sorry, Dave, but I can't do
that" (from 2001) on a 215 or 216 error.

  I've run a null modem cable between this '386 and the MM/1 for now so that I
can transfer programs between the CoCo and what I d/l from CIS to the MM/1 and
it's proving to be a very satisfactory solution... got all my GIF files on MM/1
floppies, and although they load painfully slowly from floppy, they look as
good, if not better on the MM/1.  Get Mike H's GIFSHOW4 from the lib - it has
lots of features not on the one that comes with the MM/1.

   ...Jim

#: 13539 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Dec-91  21:59:24
Sb: #13457-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

    Remember working with cassette tape?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13553 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  19:37:09
Sb: #13539-MM/1 delivery
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Hi Paul... Yeah! Hated every hour of it!!!

#: 13520 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Dec-91  19:56:02
Sb: #13472-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

If you are using a single board MM1, then you need to SAVE out the windio
module from the 1 meg boot disk and use that instead of the one on the modules
disk.

Maybe that helps?

  --Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13527 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Dec-91  23:02:51
Sb: #13520-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Hi Colin... Ya know, I bet you're right! I'll definitely try that. Do you know
if there's any limit on bootfile size with OSK? With flat memory, I should be
able to make it quite large, right? Since it looks like I'm stuck with floppies
for a while, I'd like to make a bootfile with a lot of commands in it to make
things speedier.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13531 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Dec-91  07:16:22
Sb: #13527-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

There used to be a limit; there isn't any more.  <pause to look in another
window>  The current bootfile I'm using on my MM/1 is 91330 bytes long.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13537 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Dec-91  20:50:48
Sb: #13531-MM/1 delivery
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hi James... No limit!?! I'll have to play around with that one...

#: 13556 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  19:49:26
Sb: #13527-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

No limit that I know of (on bootfile size), but if it is going to be bigger
than 64K you will have to use the -e (extended boot) option of OS9Gen.

(My OS9Boot file is 86k)

  --Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13560 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  22:30:39
Sb: #13556-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Hi Colin... I've about got it figured out. I now have a bootdisk that suits me
with most of my most used commands on it. Works fine. Anybody know why the boot
trashes the bottom of the screen? Doesn't seem to hurt anything, but it looks
like the bootup code or maybe the stack is chewing into screen mem? Weird!
Thanks for the reply...

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13566 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Dec-91  05:43:16
Sb: #13560-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen - you guessed right:  on a 1-meg system there really should be no video
until boot (altho there _is_ video shown, I believe in case a hacker needs to
use the ROM debugger)... so you see the boot code stack at first. Until the
window system gets init'd, that is.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13568 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Dec-91  07:57:07
Sb: #13566-MM/1 delivery
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kev... Ha!!! I thought that's what it was!

#: 13576 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Dec-91  19:56:15
Sb: #13560-MM/1 delivery
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

I think I heard that is caused by the computer looking for a sound port??? I'm
trying now to get a !!! mouse to work (note a little frustration?)  ;)

  --Colin

#: 13525 S9/Utilities
    17-Dec-91  22:17:36
Sb: #scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: ALL

I have installed a driver and descriptor combination from scsi47.ar and have
begun trying it out.  While running the package's driverchk Basic09 program I
have noticed a substantial imrovement except during ident's and mdir's which
seem to halt the system.  I tried downloading to the hard drive.  Not only no
improvement, the situation's WORSE.  Not only do I still drop carrier, the
whole system crashes.  I get a lot of random garbage on the screen (does not
look like VDG chip garbage) and everything's locked up.  For that matter this
happens frequently. And at random times after or during boot.  It's 100% of the
time with all terminal programs when downloading to /h0 and random otherwise
(though mostly during any disk access).  It started with my installation of RBF
Ed. 29 but tremendously magnified with scsi47.ar.  I can't depend on my CoCo
from one minute to the next with this.  DECB does seem totally unaffected. 
Problem Two: I definitely need to change my interleave but I already have 1431
files in 214 directories with only 9 Meg used.  Imagine how long it will take
to put all that back from floppy, esp. since my /h0 structure doesn't match my
floppy collection.  [Continued in reply].

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13526 S9/Utilities
    17-Dec-91  22:27:10
Sb: #13525-#scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

[13525 continued]  What I want to do is use a backup/restore utility so I can
easily replace my directory structure.  So once I find the best interleave and
format therefor, will restoring the drive overwrite the data in the first LSN's
AND ruin my good-interleave format?  I think the answer is no but I thought I'd
better check here first.  My backup/restore is the one in File System Repack. 
If someone has used it but switched to one that's available to download, I too
will consider changing.  Just state what you like better about John Doe's
program.

This is a record post for me, at least in this forum.  Thanks for reading this
far (g) and for helping me get as far along as I am now with this new drive. 
In fact, if it weren't for this forum I would probably have given up on OS-9
sometime around last March.

Erich Schulman (KTN4CA)



There are 2 Replies.

#: 13530 S9/Utilities
    18-Dec-91  06:41:46
Sb: #13526-#scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich - it just struck me: what comm program are you using?  Some of the
nastier ones go right to the hardware which could cause a crash in this case.

kev

PS: keep at it!  You've learned an awful lot in the last months, it seems! I
think we'd all give up on any hobby if there weren't others around :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13534 S9/Utilities
    18-Dec-91  11:24:26
Sb: #13530-scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

For OS-9, my termianl programs are SuperComm 2.1a (which occasionally forks rz)
which I use everywhere but here and occasionally here, and Sterm 1.5.1 which I
use here and with null modems but not much otherwise.  My primary terminal
program is Ultimaterm 4.1 (DECB) but there is one BBS where I'll be switching
to SuperComm whose ANSI emmulation appears to be better than Ulterm's.  BTW, I
was using os9arc to archive some .DBF database files I was going to send to a
local BBS.  I was using Supercomm and was uploading with Xmodem-1K.  Was going
to that is!  I decided to play a online game while os9arc crunched.  But os9arc
returned an ERROR 001 and that caused me to drop carrier.  The sysop knows what
I've been up to so all I had to do was get back on, leave a "sorry!" message,
and try again.  I got no error the second time and all worked fine.

#: 13532 S9/Utilities
    18-Dec-91  09:14:29
Sb: #13526-#scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich -

You cannot affect interleave once it's been 'formatted in'. LSN's and
interleave have nothing to do with one another. Restoring your filesystem won't
screw anything up, assuming that you use a file by file backup and restoral
process. You may wisg to check out my 'hdkit.ar' in the DL's. It's a full
backup/restoral utility suite.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13535 S9/Utilities
    18-Dec-91  11:27:54
Sb: #13532-#scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

I think the backup/restore with File System Repack goes sector by sector and
ignores file structure.  That's why I thought I should ask about this. I do
know that my utility will optionally backup only clusters that are both
allocated and in the file system, or backup every byte used or not.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13536 S9/Utilities
    18-Dec-91  14:40:29
Sb: #13535-#scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Then it sounds like a non-option for defragging. It still won't mess with your
interleave though.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13546 S9/Utilities
    19-Dec-91  00:12:25
Sb: #13536-#scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

The manual specifically and unequivocally states that the hdb/hdr combo will
not defrag.  There are two other utils in the package to do that.  They said
the advantage is that bad sector info will be preserved along with (which is
not present in my case) os9boot, the kernel, and Hyper I/O data without your
needing to know their locations on the disk.  Since I knew your program was
available for download I got FSR for defragmentation.  I suspected there might
be a backup program but I didn't even really know that til I read the docs. 
Its FCheck utility now reports 13.5% fragmentation on used areas and 7.?% on
free areas and said that was a OK level.  With a new interleave the defrag
should go much faster than it would have before (it will be my first whenever I
do it).  But not messing up the interleave is what was most important to me at
this point.  I didn't think it would; I just thought I'd better confirm it from
someone who would really know.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13551 S9/Utilities
    19-Dec-91  11:56:41
Sb: #13546-scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich -

The ONLY time you can affect interleave is at format time (i.e. when you're
actually spinning track images onto the disk).

Pete

#: 13586 S9/Utilities
    21-Dec-91  06:30:02
Sb: #13546-scsi47.ar: what's next?
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)


>The manual specifically and unequivocally states that the hdb/hdr combo will
>not defrag.  There are two other utils in the package to do that.  They said
**the advantage is that bad sector info will be preserved along with (which is

If the interleave is changed, won't the locations of the Logical sectors also
change?

The bad sectors(assuming they are physically bad) will be on the same track
but, they will have different LSNs.

Comments?


William

#: 13528 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Dec-91  23:58:24
Sb: #13474-sticky modules
Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153
To: Bruce Isted 76625,2273

Bruce;

  Good to see you back!  Long time no see.

>   What CAN cause problems is if memory gets too fragmented, where >sticky
modules with no users are interleaved with modules in use.  Then, >if you want
to run a program that has larger module/data size requirements >than the
largest sticky module(s) in memory, you're out of luck.

  Ouch, does this mean re-boot time?  Having only (only - hah!) 1 Meg. of
memory for now, I've been pretty conscious of how much free mem is left, which
gave me the idea of a cleanup util for the sticky modules.  I think that I've
only run up against the mem limit once, but for a BBS or other 'full time'
setup, it looks as though the fragmented memory could become a problem.

  ...Jim

#: 13538 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Dec-91  20:58:30
Sb: #GIFs on MM/1
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X)

Hi Jim... I have also run a null modem cable to my CoCo to transfer stuff.
Sterm receives from Osterm fine, but won't Xmodem sent to the Coco. It will
send text files to osterm by ascii send, but I have to drop to 2400 baud, or
the Coco loses too many chars. I tried some of my biggest GIFs, and found I
have to use the -l (low-res) option to display them with only 1 Meg. The
display is a little better than the CoCo's, without the annoying flicker that
ViewGif did to get more colors. Wonder what they'll look like when I've get 3
Megs?... I hear that the machine will speed up when I get the I/O board and
more mem. Sure hope so - not that it's slow, but every bit of extra speed
helps. I think the main reason it seems slow to me now is that I'm not used to
waiting for floppies...

There are 3 Replies.

#: 13544 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Dec-91  23:30:26
Sb: #13538-GIFs on MM/1
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

It will speed up considerably when you get more memory, believe me.  I've seen
it happen on my MM/1.  (For that matter, I wouldn't be surprised if the new
batch of MM/1 device drivers and the like included improved floppy drivers.)

The overscan modes (which are the ones gifshow will be able to use when you
have the added RAM) make more of a difference than one might expect, because if
it increases each linear dimension by 10% (that's just a guess on my part),
that's a 21% increase in *area*, which is what you'll perceive as the change.

#: 13557 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  20:17:46
Sb: #13538-#GIFs on MM/1
Fm: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen,

Excuse me for butting in here, but I have a 1 meg MM/1 (waiting for the I/O
board) and I don't have any trouble viewing 640 X 480 by 256 color GIF's. I am
using Windio edition #22 from disk #6 and GIFshow edition #5. On the Magnavox
8CM515 I have connected to the MM/1 there is a little flicker at the top of the
screen but the colors look great and the picture (over 209K file) looks about
as good as it does on the multi-sync monitor I have on my 386 machine. It's
really slow loading in from floppy though. Can't wait for the I/O board and
hard drive.

P.S. Just tried the -l option with gifshow on the MM/1. Without using the -l
option I have 230.5K of memory free and the picture fills the entire screen.
Using -l, I have 270.5K of memory free and the picture is reduced in size (as
you would expect).

Ernie.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13562 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  22:36:35
Sb: #13557-GIFs on MM/1
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Ernest Withers Jr. 71545,1117 (X)

Hi Ernie... Hmmm... Wouldn't work on mine. My GIF file is about 250k long and
GifSh4 refused to do it. Could be a difference in bootfile size? or my Gifshow
is out of date? Wonder which?

#: 13564 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Dec-91  02:09:02
Sb: #13538-#GIFs on MM/1
Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Yup!  Just don't use the -m (in memory decode) with large GIF's on a 1 meg
system.  Also don't have too many other windows open or too large a ramdisk.
Usually not a problem, but If you already have 3 or 4 windows open and a 256K
ramdisk, you don't have the memory to load the whole image into memory before
it's decoded *and* create a Overscan 384 x 480 x 256 color screen.

Should be a faster version of GIFShow available RSN.  Keep checking the Libs!
Hope y'all are enjoying the utility.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13569 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Dec-91  08:00:34
Sb: #13564-GIFs on MM/1
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X)

Hi Mike... I always like faster! Hey, on something like a 640x480 GIF, is there
a way to display every line and just dump the top or bottom of a pix, instead
of skipping lines every now and then to make it fit? Waiting eagerly for your
next version!!!

#: 13542 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Dec-91  22:15:39
Sb: #13438-#Problems with new /h0
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

   Hi Erich,
             I don't have the same hard drive as you (I have a B&B XT)
   but I got around the problems with CC3go by taking the descriptors
   /h0 and internally renaming two copies /d0 and /dd. My floppies I
   changed to /f0, /f1 and /f2. The system boots from /f0 and then reads
   the startup file from the hard drive /d0. It all works very quickly.
                                     Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13547 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Dec-91  00:14:57
Sb: #13542-Problems with new /h0
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

I now have the scsi47 descriptor and driver in and cc3go seems to be working
perfectly every time now.  And now that I run /h0/startup instead of
/d0/startup, I'm ready to go in 40 seconds instead of 150 seconds. But thanks
anyway!

Erich Schulman (KTN4CA)

#: 13543 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Dec-91  22:57:44
Sb: #13375-#CoCo 3 terminal
Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 (X)

I does everything I need too!  I have used Quattro Pro at work and while it is
great - it takes up to five megs of hard drive storage just to work!!!! What a
waste!  All of the software developers think their software will be the only
one running on your computer!!!!  Get out of here!

Bye!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13617 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Dec-91  22:50:13
Sb: #13543-CoCo 3 terminal
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 (X)

exacly my statement. alot of msdos users can't see how I get by on a 30 meg HD
and have lots of room left over! Dyncaclc isn't quattro but for anything I had
to do Dynacalc does so thats all that counts in my book. (and takes a mere 48K
on my HD)

Mike

#: 13545 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Dec-91  00:02:07
Sb: #Rogue under Multivue
Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427
To:  76703,2013 (X)

Do you know a decent way to run Rogue from Multivue?

Bert

There are 3 Replies.

#: 13549 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Dec-91  07:09:57
Sb: #13545-#Rogue under Multivue
Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013
To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 (X)

Sorry Bert, I don't own a copy of Multivue. Hopefully someone else will pop in
with a hint.




There is 1 Reply.

#: 13730 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  10:23:57
Sb: #13549-Rogue under Multivue
Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427
To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X)

Thanks - I got it running but you have to go to the ROGUE directory and I had
to put ROGUE in the CMDS directory instead of putting it in its own Directory -
/dd/games/rogue/cmds

Thanks for your reply!

   (o)   (o)
       U
    \_____/

Bert

#: 13563 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Dec-91  02:08:31
Sb: #13545-#Rogue under Multivue
Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433
To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 (X)

Try a simple AIF that has a window type of 5 or 7 like:

rogue

icons/any.icon 5 80 24 2 0

That should do it.  It uses a simple GFX screen.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13731 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  10:26:49
Sb: #13563-Rogue under Multivue
Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427
To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X)

I got it working - thanks!  I was trying to have an AIF in my /dd/games
directory - while all of the support files were in the /dd/games/rogue
directory - that is how I have all my other games set up - I wrote my own C
code to load some of the other TYPE 1 window (old green screen) games and have
all of the AIFs show up in the /dd/games directory with each game's support
files in their own directory.  For example, Flight Sim has an aif - AIF.fs2 in
/dd/games directory and its support files are located in the /dd/games/fs2
directory.

Bert

#: 13618 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Dec-91  22:55:20
Sb: #13545-#Rogue under Multivue
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Bert Schneider 70244,427 (X)

There is one problem running rogue. it loads in its own font to use for the
symbols and when you toggle back to MV the icons are all messed up! best bet is
to limit it to a text screen. or find a way to patch the fonts to use a
different group number if possible. Mike

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13732 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  10:28:27
Sb: #13618-Rogue under Multivue
Fm: Bert Schneider 70244,427
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715

I finnaly got mine to work with a graphic screen and it doesn't mess up MV!!! I
use an 80 column window - graphic mode with two colors!  I have no problem at
all - I did have a problem loading the game in twice - two windows
multi-tasking!  The system bombed!!!

Bert

#: 13548 S9/Utilities
    19-Dec-91  00:32:20
Sb: scsi47 + RBF29=BLOB?
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: ALL

I began preps to backup the hard drive in advance of reformatting for a nw
interleave.  And I noticed something.  If you recall a previous post I had
described numerous problems with system crashes.  But as I formatted disks I
consistently had a crash exactly as described after every nine disk formats.  I
got through 8 and crashed as soon as I hit ENTER for #9 with d1 never going
into action.  I tried to duplicate this problem in DECB but had no problems. 
So I looked at changes to my OS-9 software, and there were two.  1) I installed
RBF 29, 2) I installed scsi47.  I put in both at the same time.  I considered
it unlikely scsi47 was to blame.  I cobblered a new disk and used EZGen to
replace RBF 29 with my stock RBF 28.  I have not as yet tried to download to
the hard drive but otherwise all problems just vanished.  Could the BLOB have
been causing me all this trouble?  I do not have RBF and all its drivers and
devices in one 8K block as Rainbow recommends, yet that works fine with the
stock RBF.  And with the stock RBF it seems important that its load offset be
divisible by 4 which is now the case. What would proabably be the best cure for
this BLOB, i.e., should I now try to get all RBF modules into one 8K block to
use RBF 29, or what?

#: 13550 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Dec-91  10:37:48
Sb: #13376-bbs
Fm: George Hendrickson 71071,2003
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

xD{_I'm running RiBBS v2.02. It's pretty good software and has Fido Net
capabilitys{. I don't have that going yet. If you want a copy, call the RiBBS
HQ at (303)343-6707. I don't have very many lock ups but they happen sometimes
and that's only because of an on-line game someone wrote or something else.

#: 13554 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  19:41:24
Sb: #Monitors for VSC
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hi James... Improved floppy drivers are definitely on their way to us soon. I
spoke with Paul today about that and the IMS BBS has a bulletin on it too.
There is a new format called Turbo that (for large files) gives transfer times
approaching that of a slow hard drive. Hey, you know anything about what kind
of monitors we can use for the MM/1? Can I use a SVGA type (I don't mind
building an adapter for the cable)?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13558 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  21:58:09
Sb: #13554-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

All I know is that the Magnavox 1CM135 that I bought works very well with it. 
I think the VSC chip wants the TV style 15.75 KHz scan rate, or whatever it is
(the frequency that all those obnoxious TV flyback transformers whine at :-). 
Further deponent sayeth not.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13561 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  22:33:37
Sb: #13558-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hi James... Hope the VSC can work with this monitor. It is multi-sync -
Horizontal: 30 - 38 KHz. If it won't work I'll have to return it and get my
money back... Damn!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13571 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Dec-91  08:43:52
Sb: #13561-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

The VSC chip clocks at 15.75 KHz.  My CM8 has been going out for some time, so
I talked to Frank Hogg about which type of monitor to purchase for my TC70.

He said most multi-sync monitors scan at about 30.00 Khz, and are therefore
unusable for the VSC chip, and suggested either I buy another CM8, or get the
Magnovox 1CM135.  They both scan at 15.75, the dot pitch for the CM8 is, I
think, about .52mm, the Magnovox pitch is .42mm. (Thus making the Magnovox
monitor a better monitor.)

Radio Shack will sell me a CM8 for $150, but I've found Magnovox's for about
$250-$300.

The Magnovox is getting very hard to find, though....took me 4 calls to find
someone who could ship one to me within the next 10 days.

Hope this helps.

jim Sutemeier

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13577 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Dec-91  21:24:22
Sb: #13571-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X)

Hi Jim... I oops... I'm getting a bit annoyed with IMS for building a computer
I can't buy a monitor for (so far). I spent the day trying to find any RGBA
monitor that will sync to 15.7 KHz. Had pretty much no luck at all. They're
fast becoming extinct. Two I found that MAY work are : 1. NEC MultiSync 3D
$800+ Canadian and 2. TVM SuperSync 3+ $550+ Canadian. Looks pretty grim unless
IMS has something up their sleeve. Maybe I'm looking for the wrong thing? I'd
like to move my CM-8 back to the CoCo3 - the TV sucks! Composite monitors are
pretty much unavailable - you can find the odd used one, but new ones are
non-existent! Any ideas...?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13578 S15/Hot Topics
    21-Dec-91  00:42:45
Sb: #13577-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen - if I had the $$, I'd get the NEC MultiSync (which is much cheaper down
heah in the states)... it has a very sharp, bright picture.

But the best deal might be to simply find a CM-8... they're pretty cheap these
days.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13581 S15/Hot Topics
    21-Dec-91  02:54:28
Sb: #13578-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kevin... I spent the day trying to find RGBA monitors that will sync at any
rate lower than 30 KHz - had almost no luck. Seems almost no one builds em
anymore, except at real high prices. The two possibles I found are the NEC
MultiSync 3D (about $800+ Canadian) and the TVM SuperSync 3+ (about $550 C and
has identical specs to the NEC). Paul says the Mitsubishi DiamondScan will work
and also the Magnavox 1cm135. I'll have to phone around re: availability/price
of those two. The salesman I talked to wasn't sure if and still stay in analog
mode - he seemed to think that at the lower frequencies, they reverted to TTL,
but wasn't sure.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13584 S15/Hot Topics
    21-Dec-91  04:29:14
Sb: #13581-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

I think most of the people I know, use DiamondScans or CM-8s.  I use a CM-8,
and like it because it has the best black, but at demos I wish I had one of the
fancier multisync monitors because they display better in bright rooms and also
usually have lots of size/centering controls.

I think CM-8s are selling as low as $150 new, so if you're like me and don't
want to put a lot into a monitor yet (and still want a good picture anyway), it
seems like a fair choice.

PS* no, the multisyncs should stay in whatever analog/digital input mode you
set its switch for.  Hmm, I suppose there could be weird ones which try to
guess at what kind of PC card you're using tho.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13593 S15/Hot Topics
    21-Dec-91  19:32:40
Sb: #13584-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kevin... I think I'll take a day (after Christmas rush) to call all the
Radio Shacks in the city and see if anyone has a CM-8 anymore. Remember that
Intertan up here in Canada dropped the CoCo long before Radio Shack in the
States did. I called a couple before and they had none. Might even keep the
CM-8 on the MM/1 and buy a cheap composite monitor for the CoCo. I can get a
used monochrome for $25. What's a DiamondScan go for in the USA?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13598 S15/Hot Topics
    21-Dec-91  23:08:24
Sb: #13593-Monitors for VSC
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen - ach, I forgot that Intertan dropped the coco a year earlier.

I haven't gotten Computer Shopper in a while, so I'm not sure what the various
multiscan monitors go for now.  Perhaps someone else does?

#: 13599 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  00:13:36
Sb: #13593-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

PS: did you see the "COUPLE" file in Lib 15?  It's about a product to switch
between the MM/1 and CoCo on one CM-8.  Might be useful.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13600 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  00:45:27
Sb: #13599-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kevin... A switcher doesn't help me much. I have the MM/1 on one desk, the
MIDI equipment in the middle and the CoCo on the right on another desk. My room
is too small to set it up any other way and still be usable. I need another
monitor. The MM/1 manual claims "The MM/1 provided(s) jumpers to allow you to
work with most popular RGBA monitors". Is there really a way to use a "popular"
RGBA monitor? Popular by whose standards? Strange... I'll keep looking I guess.
Seems popular these days means SVGA - sync rates of 30 KHz and up.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13602 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  04:50:43
Sb: #13600-Monitors for VSC
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Yah, "popular" changes from day to day :-)  Your room sounds like mine, btw.
Actually, I've gotten to like a smaller room (except for storage of magazines!)
because it means everything is within arm's reach while sitting down <grin>.

#: 13605 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  10:32:46
Sb: #13577-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

I just ordered, from CoCoPro (Dave Meyers), a 1CM135 Magnovox monitor.

Frank Hogg suggested this monitor instead of another CM8 for my system (my CM8
is dying...slowly but surely).

The problem is getting a monitor that will horizontally scan at 15.75
KHz....most Multi-Sync monitors scan at about 30.00.  So, Frank suggested the
1CM135 as the best replacement, that will work correctly with the VSC chip.

Finding a Magnovox monitor was another story - I ca,lled a bunch of places,
finding none available anywhere for immediate shipment.

The best I could find was coCoPro, where he promised me the monitor would
arrive around 1/1; so I ordered it from him.

The cost of the Mag. is between $250-$300, depending on who you order from.

I understand that this new monitor has a dot pitch of .42mm, as compared to the
CM8 at .52mm, so the screen should look a lot better with the new monitor.

jim



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13610 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  17:39:53
Sb: #13605-#Monitors for VSC
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754 (X)

Hi Jim... The Magnavox is a definite possible for me. Exactly how much
difference does dot pitch size make? I know the CM-8 isn't the clearest thing
I've seen. Is something like .31 or .28 a lot better, or is it that big a
thing?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13612 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  19:44:54
Sb: #13610-Monitors for VSC
Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

The smaller the dot pitch, the better pix you get.  The 1CM135, with a dot
pitch .10mm smaller than the CM8, should provide crystal clear images, even on
images that caused 'flicker' on the CM8.

Once I get the Magnovox, I'll let you know if this is true.  q{

With the CM8 monitor, with GWindows, the Gespac Logo flickers quite badly on my
CM8....will let you know how the logo does on the Magnovox.

jim



#: 13555 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    19-Dec-91  19:46:31
Sb: #MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: all

Hi all... I'm looking at a new monitor for my MM/1. Can I use a SVGA type
monitor? It has a DB15 plug. Pinout is: 1. Red. 2. Green. 3. Blue. 4. Ground.
6. Red Rtn. 7. Green Rtn. 8. Blue Rtn. 13. H.Sync. 14. V.Sync.  The rest of the
pins are either tied to ground or not connected. I have pinouts for the CM-8.
If I don't connect the Rtn lines and just match up the rest, will the monitor
work? If so, building an adapter is a snap!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13567 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    20-Dec-91  05:47:04
Sb: #13555-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

The monitor should work, if it also can sync to NTSC (about 15Khz) freqs. If
it's only for SVGA cards at 31Khz, then it won't work.

If the above is okay, then the only thing you might have to play with is the H
and V sync polarity... but there are jumpers on the board for that (apologies,
my machine is closed up or I could describle where they are).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13570 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    20-Dec-91  08:04:23
Sb: #13567-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kevin... According to monitor manual, no, it won't sync that low. I'll call
their tech guy today and see if he knows any more about it. Would it hurt
anything if I tried it? If I have to return this thing, I don't want it fried!
Oh yeah, do I tie the Rtn lines to ground?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13579 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  00:44:10
Sb: #13570-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen - yeah, it's not polite to input the wrong freq to a monitor... and could
hurt it after a few seconds.  So I wouldn't even try it.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13582 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  02:56:06
Sb: #13579-MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kev... OK, thanks for the good advice. Wouldn't want to have to buy two, one
as a boat anchor and one to compute on!

#: 13621 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Dec-91  23:43:58
Sb: #13579-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

   What type of resolution do you get with an MM/1?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13623 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Dec-91  23:49:29
Sb: #13621-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

The VSC chip gives up to 768x480 16-colors, or 384x480 256-colors.  The palette
chip used on the MM/1 allows those colors to be chosen from a 24-bit (16
million) set.  For example, you can have 256 shades of grey.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13629 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Dec-91  09:25:41
Sb: #13623-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

    I tried calling 1-800-866-9084 to get some MM/1 info. Didn't get an answer.
Not like I have the money for one or anything; am just curious about exactly
what kind of machine this is.
                                                      Paul

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13636 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Dec-91  20:27:15
Sb: #13629-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Hi Paul... I have one. Ask me anything. I'll give you my opinion or facts if I
know them. So far I like the machine. Lotsa potential that will be realized
when I get my I/O board and hard drive and extra memory in late January. Till
then, I'm kinda limping along with two 1.44 meg floppies. Has lots of neat
goodies built into the hardware, too, like blitting, DMA and DSP of some sort.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13647 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    24-Dec-91  17:49:22
Sb: #13636-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

      How fast does it seem compared to other computers you've used. Also, was
it easy to assemble? What have you done with it so far? Can you read MS-DOS
disks? If so, does it do it as fast as a 4.77MHz XT would? (I know it's not an
MSDOS machine- just curious). Ask me anything is a dangerous phrase (grin).
                                               Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13654 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  01:51:25
Sb: #13647-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Hi Paul... How fast... Right now, it seems graphic-wise to be just a tad faster
than CoCo3, other than that, I can't say too much. I ran a 30 meg HD on the
CoCo3 and have only floppies so far on the MM/1. Makes it seem slower arrives,
the speed is supposed to pick up substantially. Assembly is just a matter of
plugging things together and running in a few screws. If you've done any drive
installations or mods to your CoCo3 you're in good shape. The instructions
leave a bit to be desired, but I'm sure IMS is working on that. On reading
MS-DOS disks, why would I want to? Never have tried it so I can't comment.
Whether it's as fast as a PC - again, can't comment as I've had no experience
with PC's ever. Well, almost none... From what I hear, it ought to be able to
smoke on a 4.77mhz XT, tho.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13657 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  06:24:45
Sb: #13654-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

We should be able to read MS-DOS disks when we get the new drivers on the
update disks.  That would be handy for trading GIF's, etc.

Happy Holidays!

  -Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13663 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  12:51:51
Sb: #13657-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Hi Colin... Does that mean we can write MS-DOS disks too? I have a friend with
a PC. He lives a sheltered life - has no modem and is terrified of viruses.
Would be interesting to get him up to speed on what computing is really about.
All he knows now is pay and play.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13675 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  22:06:37
Sb: #13663-MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Write?  Yeah, I think so.  I do wish my update disks would arrive, though!

  --Colin

#: 13666 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  15:10:03
Sb: #13654-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

    Was hoping the graphics would be VERY fast compared to a COCO3. This was
one of the weak points of the COCO3. If it's a floppy read picture it's
understandably slow.
                             Paul

There are 3 Replies.

#: 13669 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  18:00:04
Sb: #13666-MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Well...my experience with gifshow and viewgif is as follows:

viewgif suffers on speed from having to puzzle out how best to make up for the
CoCo 3's lack of color resolution, and then having to draw things twice to let
it toggle between screens.  I modified viewgif to try to speed up the analysis
phase as much as I could.  (I sent the mods back to Vaughn Cato.)

Unfortunately, I didn't save the timings I did, but...one .GIF file that I have
that viewgif took some time, I think something like forty or fifty seconds to
analyze and then perhaps a minute or so to decode and display on the CoCo with
viewgif takes seven seconds to decode and display on my MM/1.  (Viewgif had a
portion of its decoding, if I remember rightly, written in assembly language;
gifshow is all in C.)

That file is about 50K.  It would be pretty scary to run the file I've been
trying out with gifshow on the CoCo...it's 650+K long.

#: 13676 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  22:08:56
Sb: #13666-MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Actually, it is somewhat faster than a COCO3.  And, when you pop in a couple
more megs o' RAM, it gets even faster because the system uses the new RAM and
lets the graphics have the old meg (no sharing).

  --Colin

#: 13689 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    26-Dec-91  02:28:06
Sb: #13666-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Hi Paul... Remember, I expect a speed boost when the I/O board gets here...

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13701 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    26-Dec-91  21:58:48
Sb: #13689-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

    Hope you get it soon. What's it supposed to have on it? SCSI, etc?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13718 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    27-Dec-91  23:47:12
Sb: #13701-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Hi Paul... For details on the MM/1 hardware, check out the Hot Topics database
here on CI$. Of particular interest is a file called vsc.txt (or something
similar). Tells about the capabilities of the VSC chip. I know the I/O board
has a SCSI port, at least one parallel printer port (maybe 2), a couple more
serial ports, etc. Don't quote me on any of this - I could be wrong. One serial
port on the main board will soon be convertible to a MIDI port. That's one I'm
waiting for!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13745 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Dec-91  21:15:16
Sb: #13718-#MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Don't forget the sound I/O and clock!

(I can't wait to get the RTC, I HATE running settime every time I turn on the
machine!)

  --Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13748 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Dec-91  23:58:03
Sb: #13745-MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Hi Colin... You got it!!! I really miss my RTC! I've uploaded some
quick-anddirty graphic demos here and on Delphi. Watch for em. If you have any,
upload please...

#: 13650 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  01:41:46
Sb: #13629-MM/1 SVGA Monitor?
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Paul - they're probably shut down for Christmas, I'd guess (ie: gone to visit
relatives :-).

Try doing a "sca/sho" in Lib 15... there's various info files on all the new
68K systems people are interested in.

cheers - kev

#: 13559 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Dec-91  22:13:58
Sb: #13343-I've got it
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

I think that login runs a shell to process the .login file?  I use login with
no username or password just to process my .login file.

-J






#: 13572 S9/Utilities
    20-Dec-91  10:45:34
Sb: #scsi47 format failure
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: ALL

Is it possible to modify Disto's DECB program to let me try different
interleaves?  I tried every dmode trick I could think of and I can never get
scsi47 to perform a physical format for anything remotely near the drive's
capacity.  There is no reason that a 65Meg drive should be formatting so that I
can get no more than 5 to 16 Meg free!  I have already wasted twelve hours
trying to get scsi47 to correctly physical-format my drive and I'm not giving
it any more.  The DECB program works even if its interleave is FAR from correct
so that is what I now want to use.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13574 S9/Utilities
    20-Dec-91  11:43:22
Sb: #13572-#scsi47 format failure
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Hmm - I may be pulling this out of my... er... hair, but I thought that
formatting parameters were negotiated between the controller and the drive in
SCSI land.

The way most OS9 drivers (disk) are setup is that if a format track 0 command
is received, it treats it as a command to format the whole drive.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13575 S9/Utilities
    20-Dec-91  19:37:02
Sb: #13574-#scsi47 format failure
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Here's just one of the commands I used to unsuccessfully begin to look for the
best interleave.
dmode /hf cyls=1190 hds=6 sectrk=34 sectrk0=34 ilv=1 This dmode was done to the
hf_st296n_53.dd descriptor in the package.  If I recall correctly I wound up
with 16Meg free.  I used the SAME poarameters (minus ilv= which I didn't
specify) when I did a logical-only format following the DECB physical format. 
Worked perfectly.  So why not with SCSI47?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13587 S9/Utilities
    21-Dec-91  07:29:11
Sb: #13575-#scsi47 format failure
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

It's all up to the driver (SCSI47), and it sounds like it's screwing up. There
used to be a problem with the 'free' command not being able to deal with larger
disks, but if you're running LII's latest version stuff, you should be clear
there. I'd bet on SCSI47 as a problem source.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13590 S9/Utilities
    21-Dec-91  12:10:11
Sb: #13587-scsi47 format failure
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

I now use two free commands.  One is Free and it is the one that came with the
Enhanced GShell archives.  The other is lsH which prints a directory as well. 
The former did report free space correctly when everything was working.  I
didn't check what lsH would report back but I assume it would be the same. 
Unless someone else comes up with a solution I suppose I will have to put
everything back the way it was and live with a poor interleave--and that once I
have a working CoCo 3 again.  I wouldn't know how to go about fixing scsi47 or
Disto's DECB program.

#: 13573 S1/General Interest
    20-Dec-91  10:52:44
Sb: #Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: ALL

In message 13572 I stated where I left off in trying to get my CoCo to work the
way it ought to.  Now my main problem is going to be getting it to work at all.
I am now absolutely 100% down and if it weren't for my access to a Macintosh I
couldn't be on CIS now.  I have lost the ability to power up into tape BASIC
(let alone DECB) and the ability to run a ROMpak.  The ability to run tape
BASIC was next-to-the-last to go (before I lost everything) so I'm suspecting
total failure of the 6809.  The VDG chip seems OK as does the power supply.  It
may be a while before I have another CoCo 3 (can't pick one up at RS anymore
and I've never seen one in the local classifieds). I can still check into the
forums for message traffic but nothing else, and this is the way it is going to
be for some unknown, indefinite period of time.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13580 S1/General Interest
    21-Dec-91  00:46:49
Sb: #13573-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich - was it a CoCo-1 or CoCo-3 that went down?

My CoCo-3 started acting flaky the other day, and finally last night it was
crashing regularly (and with lotsa pretty gfx on the screen :-)

Popping out the GIME chip and back in again cured everything.  I think one of
my new year's resolutions will be to power down and clean up the whole system,
from connectors to sockets to disk drives!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13589 S1/General Interest
    21-Dec-91  12:04:22
Sb: #13580-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

It's a CoCo 3 that's totally down.  And I've done the GIME chip fix a few days
ago and things only got worse until I was completely down.  I did another GIME
fix a month ago which did cure some ills.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13597 S1/General Interest
    21-Dec-91  23:06:00
Sb: #13589-Dead CoCo3
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich - you might also want to make sure all the RAM chips are tight... after a
while they sometimes "walk" their way out of sockets due to the heat.

My symptoms the other day sounded like yours tho: not even coming completely up
under RSDOS, failing to boot, or booting and then dying.  Chips don't usually
die a little bit at a time like that... but connections do! :)

Luck!

#: 13620 S1/General Interest
    22-Dec-91  23:37:16
Sb: #13589-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

    Erich,
            Sorry to hear that you're down. The last time my computer acted
dead was because my multipak wasn't turned on. I would get a blank green
screen. But you said you can't even use tape basic.
            What do you see on the screen when you turn the computer on?
Anything at all? Is it black, green, or does the logo come up with no keyboard
response?
                                Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13634 S1/General Interest
    23-Dec-91  18:07:27
Sb: #13620-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

I get everything you should see on startup except for the sign on message, the
OK prompt, and the cursor.  Just black and a green square.  My Slot Pak III
(what I use as a MPI) has no power switch.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13645 S1/General Interest
    24-Dec-91  17:43:06
Sb: #13634-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

     Sounds like the last Coco3 I bought. I got a 'last one' from RS at a great
price that did that. Never did find out what was wrong; just got another one.
Try turning it on with Nothing hooked up; no slotpaks, etc.
     If you still get just green you're going to have to take it apart. Do you
have a logic probe?
                              Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13649 S1/General Interest
    24-Dec-91  20:09:38
Sb: #13645-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

I have done that (nothing connected) and the results are the same.  I've tried,
based on another recommendation, popping out all my RAM chips and putting them
back in.  Still didn't work.  From what I've heard on Delphi the problem almost
has to be a dead 6809.  I don't have a logic probe but I do have a very old
oscilloscope (it's older than I am).  I too got a last CoCo 3 so getting
another one won't be quite as easy as it was even three months ago so I am
going to have to fix the one I do have or more than likely stay with my 4K
CoCo1 until such time that I have sufficient $$$$$$$$$$ for a PC.  As it is my
CIS bill has dropped over 90% now that I can only use someone else's Macintosh
to get on so I should have the cash a little sooner if repair of my CoCo 3 is
unsuccessful [DAt this point I won't be too hopeful.  Dealing with the 6809 is
by far my biggest hardware job ever.  And I thought fixing my 'scope was a big
job when I was doing that.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13660 S1/General Interest
    25-Dec-91  09:44:49
Sb: #13649-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich,

I have to agree with your sources over on Delphi. Sure sounds like the CPU took
a hit. And that's not hard to do ... it's very sensitive in this particular
design.

If/when you replace it, take few extra moments to pop in a socket. You'll be
glad you did when the next time you've fried the beast comes around.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13672 S1/General Interest
    25-Dec-91  21:41:17
Sb: #13660-Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

I am definitely going to replace the 6809.  Whether I will be at all successful
is another matter.  Only a quick look at the top of the board confirmed Marty
Goodman's admonishment to be extremely careful so as to not damage the traces. 
My small-tip 15-watt soldering pencil will help; I used to only have a big-tip
30-watt which is fine for amplifiers and my all hollow state (i.e., all vacuum
tube) oscilloscope that I almost have working at original specs.  This CPU
replacement is by a wide margin my most difficult to perform hardware job that
I've ever considered attempting. I do feel up to the job but I am not going to
keep my hopes up on this. I still remember my first attempt to build a 2-watt
amplifier not to mention the 317 volt zap I got from the plate of a tube in
that 'scope (could have been worse, the correct voltage was 360 +/-15%).  I've
already read about replacing the 6809 with a socket so I already had that
planned.  My "policy" is to always do that except in UHF and similar where a
socket would significantly alter the circuit.

#: 13667 S1/General Interest
    25-Dec-91  15:15:28
Sb: #13649-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

   I forget: is the 6809 soldered in? If it is it's a little tricky. If you
need a source for a 6809, just ask. BG Micro sells all versions of 6809 ranging
from $1.29 to $4.00 and they have no minimum order. It's worth popping one in
for the price. How about the one in the COCO1 ?

                                   Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13673 S1/General Interest
    25-Dec-91  21:51:07
Sb: #13667-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

The 6809 is soldered.  The GIME chip seems to be the only one socketed in my
CoCo3 whereas nearly every chip in my "D" board CoCo 1 is.  I have already
looked at every chip in the CoCo 1 some months ago when I was studying the
prospect of upgrading it to 64K and adding Extended BASIC if I can get a 24-pin
ECB chip.  But not one chip in that CoCo1 is labeled as a 6809 or anything
close thereto.  Even if I had found a 6809 in there it would only be a
temporary solution since I doubt it could tolerate 2 MHz operation for long.  I
never tried to run the CoCo1 in 2MHz mode so I don't know if it even can.  The
upgrade I am considering for the CoCo1 which Marty Goodman urges me to not try
seems to me to be no more difficult than replacing the 6809 in the CoCo3.  I am
certainly more confident in my potential for succesfully doing it than with
replacing the 6809.  I have already found a BG Micro ad in Computer Shopper
which I got when I began looking for something to replace my DuMP-107.  That's
also where I will try to get some 4164's to upgrade the CoCo1.  It's just the
ECB chip that's a big problem.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13699 S1/General Interest
    26-Dec-91  21:53:43
Sb: #13673-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

    In my experience; forget about saving the 6809 that is in the COCO3 if
you're going to replace. I believe RS still sells a desoldering iron with a
sucker bulb built onto it. This is a BEST BUY desoldering iron. It has a little
hollow tip that heats up and sucks up solder.
    With this, it is possible to desolder the 6809; but don't try it. Chances
are the board will be damaged and the chip will have suffered from heat too.
    Cut the pins off the old 6809 with a very small pair of diagonal cutting
pliers or tiny scissors. Then with a pair of needlenose pliers grab each pin
and pull it from the board while heating its solder pad from the other side.
You might need a small clamp vise to hold the board, I use my feet.
    Some of the holes will still have solder in them, but you can BLOW this out
with that DE-soldering iron. Just heat the solder pod and squeeze the bulb
quickly.
    After you have clear holes, carefully solder in a socket with RS's smallest
iron (the blue one with the pin tip).
    It's really not that hard.
    How many 4164's do you need? This place is crawling with them.

                                    Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13706 S1/General Interest
    27-Dec-91  12:59:46
Sb: #13699-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

I see my biggest problem as being the small spaces involved.  I have so far
never worked with much beyond tubes and transistors (esp. TO-3, TO-92, and
TO-220 cases) as far as soldering goes.  I did once desolder a 14-pin DIP on a
board that was cracked so whatever might happen as a result of the experience
didn't matter much.  I didn't even know what that board was for. Except for
(un)plugging chips nearly all my hardware work has been with amplifiers and
other big things.  I'm really not having a problem with 4164 DRAMs.  I do need
eight.  I have so far found four or five sources. Upgrading the CoCo1 to 16,
32, or 64K won't help much if I don't add Extended BASIC too.  My biggest
problem is with getting a 24-pin ECB chip. They seem totally unobtainable.  (I
have been told to get a CoCo2 instead of trying to upgrade the 1.  I've checked
the papers nearly every day for months and never see a Color Computer at all.)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13709 S1/General Interest
    27-Dec-91  18:39:36
Sb: #13706-#Dead CoCo3
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

    The most important thing in working those small spaces is to have small
tools. That's why you get the tinniest tipped soldering iron you can. I'm
willing to remove the 6809 chip and put in a socket if you pay postage both
ways.
                        Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13712 S1/General Interest
    27-Dec-91  21:53:46
Sb: #13709-Dead CoCo3
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Thanks for your offer; however, take a look at the message I am about to
COMPose:  you'll see that the 6809 is really OK! I will more than likely get a
spare anyway.

#: 13583 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  03:00:25
Sb: #C on MM/1
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: all

Hi all... I have an MM/1 and no manuals. I'm trying to get anything at all to
compile (in C) on this machine and having no luck at all! I am familiar with
the L2 compiler - wrote lots of stuff with it, in fact, but it seems there were
just enough changes made in the new one that I can't seem to get it to work
without more info. My latest error message is 'no root psect found'. Whazzat?
Huh?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13585 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  04:35:39
Sb: #13583-#C on MM/1
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Not sure Glen, but L-2 would probably give the same error if there was no
main() function in the code you're compiling.  A "psect" is the assembly
program section (vsect = variable section) which the compiler feeds to the
assembler to change into binary codes.  The root psect should be then (the)
main one I think.  Don't hold me to this tho :-)  Late.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13594 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  19:35:55
Sb: #13585-C on MM/1
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kev... I'd have to look to be absolutely sure, but I don't think I'd forget
to put a main() in. That's one of the first things you learn. I'm trying to use
cgfx.l. Maybe it's make that's changed... I'll have to experiment some more
tonight...

#: 13588 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  07:44:34
Sb: #13583-#C on MM/1
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

The root psect, for most practical purposes, is the one that's in the file
cstart.r.  If you have the right stuff in your library directory, it should be
able to find it.

Try adding the -bp option, so that you can see the effects of the options you
are using.  Of particular interest will be the line starting "l68".

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13595 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  19:38:33
Sb: #13588-C on MM/1
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hi James... I'll have to be sure I've got all the defs and libs set up right. I
thought I had, but maybe not... I'll let ya know what happens.



#: 13591 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    21-Dec-91  15:40:51
Sb: #13487-ASCII too, please
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

I will sure do that !

#: 13592 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    21-Dec-91  16:28:00
Sb: #13403-#Computer Stories
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

Funny the three of you should be talking computer stories, when the three of
you have alot to do with the story of how the COCO 3 and OS-9 got to where it
is today. I would like to see the three of you help us in the OS-9 Community
Network keep the story of the COCO 3 and OS-9 alive, as well as OS-9/OSK on the
new computers (which I personally haven't experienced yet). I have uploaded the
information files, perhaps the three of you can help me to figure out the best
way to gate between CIS and the OS-9 CN. This can either be by more manual
methods (ie, by my coming along every week and exchanging the latest
information with my terminal program), or we could figure out a way to use
network gateways in existence (ie, I know it is possible to get a message from
CIS to any Fidonet node (the latter being where OS-9 CN is based). Whatever we
come up with, I would like to see the three of you involved, even if just as
advisors. The three of you have been involved in the OS-9 and COCO community
alot longer since I became familiar with the community, and we could use advice
from those like you. One of the biggest goals of our new network is to take
over where others have left off, as well as organize members of the OS-9
Community into a group. Since you are already members of the OS-9 Community,
you are already members of the OS-9 Community Network. Perhaps you could make
it official and join...

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13601 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    22-Dec-91  01:07:06
Sb: #13592-#Computer Stories
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: John Wight 76370,2100 (X)

John,

Well, I guess I'll have to beg off getting involved with another network.  This
one keeps me pretty well occupied.

Wayne

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13736 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    28-Dec-91  18:54:42
Sb: #13601-#Computer Stories
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

I can understand how a network can keep one occupied, as this new one is
keeping me busy. However, one of the goals for this network is to make it a
network of clubs, BBS systems, members, networks, etc that are involved with
OS-9. You are already doing your part by running the OS9 forum on Compuserve.
What we are trying to do with the OS-9 Community Network is to somehow get all
of these individual parts to work together in some fashion to exchange
information, and of course we have a long ways to go in doing that. This is
being started on a voluntary basis, with every one that wants to get involved
doing their own part.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13751 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    29-Dec-91  02:14:56
Sb: #13736-Computer Stories
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: John Wight 76370,2100

Well, John, good luck with the new enterprise.

Wayne

#: 13596 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Dec-91  21:00:32
Sb: #13390-#shell
Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,

Here's what the version 2.4 release notes say:

syntax: profile <filename>

simple, huh?

Actually, profile <filename> works just like invoking the procedure file
<filename> by name, except it doesn't doesn't fork a new shell to execute the
procedure file.

Bud

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13662 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  12:01:23
Sb: #13596-#shell
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X)

Bud, thats for the pointer on PROFILE. I think I actually have it working okay
now. At the time my setting of the _sh variable was causing some problems since
I was using my 2.3 startup. I think that there is a difference in the way the
2.4 shell accesses the .login file. Not completely sure, but it seems that 2.3
startup shell processed .login; 2.4 does not (it relies on logon to do so).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13733 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Dec-91  13:39:04
Sb: #13662-#shell
Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

I've always had to log on to use the .login file.  Never could set the
environment with startup.  The shell that executes the startup file apparently
isn't the shell that executes my input.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13744 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Dec-91  21:12:48
Sb: #13733-#shell
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256

I'm not sure if this is what you're talking about, but the .login on my MM/1 is
executed whenever I boot up (I don't use any sort of timeshare/ multiuser
stuff).  My system is floppy based.  My startup is iniz d0 d1 and my .login
sets the time and important environment variables.

  --Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13759 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    29-Dec-91  18:16:47
Sb: #13744-shell
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360

Colin, what is the version number of the Shell you're running? I was sure that
.login was being processed with my original mm/1 proto, but with the new
complete system it seems to require LOGIN. I suppose it could be something to
do with the HD or startup...

#: 13603 S1/General Interest
    22-Dec-91  09:30:42
Sb: #Where am I
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Anyone

    I know this question has been asked before but here goes: If someone hooked
into the Internet wants to leave me E-mail on CI$, what is the address?
                              Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13604 S1/General Interest
    22-Dec-91  10:22:49
Sb: #13603-#Where am I
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Paul -

Just mail to:

    user_id@compuserve.com

    like: 76703.4230@compuserve.com

Note the use of the period instead of the tradiotional comma.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13613 S1/General Interest
    22-Dec-91  21:16:15
Sb: #13604-Where am I
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

  Thanks Pete, that is very helpful.
                                       Paul

#: 13606 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon
    22-Dec-91  10:35:50
Sb: StG BBS
Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754
To: all

Attention: BBS Operators and those who may want to run a BBS

The StG Login Package, written by Scott Griepentrog, has just been released, so
that anyone wanting to run the package as a local BBS may do so.

The StG Package is the ONLY set of programs that allow YOU, the SysOp, 100%
total control over what your users see and do online.  There are NO pre-defined
Menus (you make your own, dependent on your BBS's theme), and, you may add as
many of your own modules as you wish.

The programs are capable of displaying either ANSI or OS9 colors, if you want
your BBS to be colored.

The package will be available in the BBS section of the downloads, and, if you
have questions, I will be pleased to try to answer them (I ran the StG Package
for the past 1-1/2 years).

StG is currently working on versions for the Tomcat70 and the MM/1, also.

Included in the dox files are instructions on how to register and 'go
nationwide' with your local BBS.

If you are currently a SysOp, and would like MORE Control over your BBS, or, if
you've ever thought about running a BBS, then be sure and grab these files.

There will be further releases, in the near future, of other optional support
features for you BBS, written in primarily B09.  These include an up/download
program, a poll question, many games, a 'today is...' program, bulletin
programs, plus many other optional features.



#: 13609 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    22-Dec-91  17:36:53
Sb: #Old magazines
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kevin... Yeah, magazine storage... I have Byte mags all the way back to
1975. Subscribed then and except a couple years in the early 80's, I've kept
them all. What a stack(s)! Makes moving tough. Rainbows from 83 on... Car
mags... Keyboard mags... I can't throw anything made of paper away!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13611 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    22-Dec-91  18:13:45
Sb: #13609-#Old magazines
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Same here on the BYTE mags... in fact, I have an almost complete second set out
in my shed that I oughta sell one day.  But I did finally break down a few
months ago and throw out years and years worth of Computer Shoppers... after
tearing out the (now very few) articles I wanted to save.

Pack rats, that's what we all are!  <hehe>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13625 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    23-Dec-91  01:23:23
Sb: #13611-#Old magazines
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi Kev... I made the mistake of leaving a bunch of my mags and books in the
shed when I moved. Bad move! I live on the west coast - lotsa rain and
humidity, not to mention rodents. Had to throw out a lot, and dry out much of
my SF collection.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13626 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    23-Dec-91  02:26:16
Sb: #13625-#Old magazines
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen - we sound very much the same!  I need to move my mags in from the shed,
because down here in the Southeast it's very humid also.  As for the SF
collection, my little brother has it at his house.  I need to go get it
sometime, because our older brother began it with a book-of-the-month SF club
back in the 50's!  There are some real classics in there.

cheers - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13631 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    23-Dec-91  09:41:54
Sb: #13626-#Old magazines
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Saying that the Southeast is humid is in fact an understatment.  Depending on
how deep southeast you're talking about... I was in Hollywood, Fla in June of
this year (near southern tip of Fla.), temperature and humidity were within 5
points of each other most of the time.  And it wasn't raining!!!

I used to think it was humid (here in Texas) when the humidity go all the way
up to 30%, not anymore....  Thirty percent humidity is bone dry compared to the
upper 90s that I experienced in Florida.

There are pockets of high humidity in certain areas of Dallas, for instance,
north Dallas has higher humidity than other parts of Dallas due to the high
concentration of swimming pools in North Dallas.  <GRIN>
   Fortunately, I'm not rich enough to live in north Dallas, let the rich guys
sweat the humidity...  <G>

Lee

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13635 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    23-Dec-91  19:38:44
Sb: #13631-#Old magazines
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

One doesn't have to be in the Southeast to get humid weather.  I can vouch for
the considerable humidity levels here in the Land of Pig in the summer!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13637 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    23-Dec-91  20:29:56
Sb: #13635-#Old magazines
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hi James... Ha Ha! Where's the Land of Pig!?!?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13638 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    23-Dec-91  21:31:57
Sb: #13637-#Old magazines
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

It's Iowa...I have a T-shirt with the "True Map of the US (based on hog
census)" which shows Iowa at a size reflecting its true (porcine) importance. 
Cute shirt.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13639 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    23-Dec-91  23:45:39
Sb: #13638-Old magazines
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!...

#: 13652 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    25-Dec-91  01:49:35
Sb: #13631-#Old magazines
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

Well, it can get awfully humid here in North Carolina, but I'll still take it
over the humidity and heat in Houston!  :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13670 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    25-Dec-91  19:40:40
Sb: #13652-Old magazines
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Agreed!  Besides Houston's heat and humidity, you'd still have to contend with
their crime rate.  Not to mention that parts of Houston are sinking!

Lee

#: 13614 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  22:40:30
Sb: #13470-#What's happening?
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

my MM/1 is the same. dropping to floppies wasn't as painful since you can cram
1.44 meg on the disk. unfortantly the machine i have doesn't have a working
serial port so I can't use it until i get it replaced.

Mike

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13624 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Dec-91  01:19:37
Sb: #13614-#What's happening?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 (X)

Hi Mike... Have you been writing anything in C on your MM/1? Using cgfx.l? I'm
not absolutely positive yet, but I think it may be buggy. I seem to get
unpredictable results from some commands. I've been crashing the machine a lot!
Having a great time! I can't write anything in assembler (which I like much
better than C) until I get manuals - don't know which registers to load with
what for syscalls...

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13719 S15/Hot Topics
    28-Dec-91  00:37:33
Sb: #13624-#What's happening?
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

i have not done anything in C yet. I will HAVE to when i port the BBS over.
modules done in assembly on the CoCo will be done in C on the MM/1.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13738 S15/Hot Topics
    28-Dec-91  19:51:39
Sb: #13719-What's happening?
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715

Hi Mike... How come? Scared of 68000 assembler? Chicken? <Grin> I'm writing in
C for the MM/1 now mainly because I can't get my hands on a good assembler
reference book. I've got one ordered, but it'll take a while. I've written a
little replacement code for the faulty (I think) cgfx.l Palette command. I'll
upload it in a program called 'colors'. Feel free to scoop the working part,
modify it and put it in yer personal lib if you want. I wrote the same thing in
Basic09 - hopelessly slow (ie. pathetic as usual). Never did like Basic09
much...

#: 13616 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Dec-91  22:48:06
Sb: #13492-What's happening?
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Well once my new machine arrives i will most certainly relate that! However it
will take more then the I/O board. the machine itself needs replacing since its
the OLD prototype and some hardware changes have taken place from what i was
told and the serial port is also different.

What i set up with paul can now allow me to wait without problems. theres
something about starting a program that you can't ever say "its done" so all
the new goodies I am adding to it will simply carry over to the MM/1 instead of
being done on the MM/1.

if by then I still don't see progress (which im looking at summer 1992) I don't
know what will happen. Possibly go another route. If he can't work out his
problems and delays by the summer he probably will not be able to work them
out. After so many delays even if all are totally legit does wear on the
patience and confidence of the customer. I aplogize for being so blunt but it
is how I feel.

Mike

#: 13615 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Dec-91  22:41:37
Sb: #13476-SDISK3 --no halt?
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

the sdisk3 i use is for the sardis controller only. it has alot more hardware
in it then the SC2 and i seriously doubt it could be made to use with a sc2

Mike

#: 13619 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Dec-91  23:26:18
Sb: #Undead Proci
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Anyone

Ever get a 'procs' that looks like this:

         User                     Mem Stack Id  PId Number  Pty Age Sts Signl
Siz  Ptr   Primary Module --- --- ------- --- --- --- ----- --- -----
----------------
  2   1     0   128 129 $80    0   31 $6DE2 Shell
  3   8     0   128 128 $80    0   79 $6AB2 scred
  4   2     0   128 129 $81  228   31 $1EF4 DEAD
  5   6     0   128 128 $80    0   31 $1EF3 Procs
  6   0     0   128 129 $80    0   31 $64E2 Shell

    Try 'kill 4' and all you get is an 'error 233' and you just know there's a
zombie process that's going to cause problems in the future. Well, go back to
the window that the dead process was created in, in this case /TERM, and
'deiniz 4' (the process number of the dead process). You will know if you found
the right window if you get the strange message 'Error 221-004''Error 228'.
Running 'procs' again will give you something like this:

         User                     Mem Stack Id  PId Number  Pty Age Sts Signl
Siz  Ptr   Primary Module --- --- ------- --- --- --- ----- --- -----
----------------
  2   1     0   128 128 $80    0   31 $6DE2 Shell
  3   8     0   128 128 $80    0   79 $6AB2 scred
  4   6     0   128 128 $80    0   31 $1EF3 Procs
  5   2     0   128 131 $81    0   31 $1EF2 DEAD
  6   0     0   128 129 $80    0   31 $64E2 Shell

    Notice that the name 'DEAD' has moved from process '4' to process '5'. Now,
in that same parent window 'deiniz 5'. You should now get a 'procs' like this:

         User                     Mem Stack Id  PId Number  Pty Age Sts Signl
Siz  Ptr   Primary Module --- --- ------- --- --- --- ----- --- -----
----------------
  2   1     0   128 128 $80    0   31 $6DE2 Shell
  3   8     0   128 128 $80    0   79 $6AB2 scred
  4   6     0   128 128 $80    0   31 $1EF3 Procs
  6   0     0   128 129 $80    0   31 $64E2 Shell

    Voila, all cleaned up! I don't know why this works but it has saved me a
few reboots.

                              Paul
                              73757,1413



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13622 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Dec-91  23:45:13
Sb: #13619-#Undead Proci
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Paul - I'd bet that all you needed to do was to go back to the window the
process was created in, and type "w" <ENTER> so that the shell would do a wait
for the child to report its death.

I think your "deiniz" procs are simply allowing the shell to pick up that one
child was dead, and then your deiniz proc is taking its place for the same
reason the first child was still listed as dead:  the shell hasn't been able to
note it yet.

Try the "w" command sometime and see if that works instead.  best - kev

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13628 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Dec-91  09:23:20
Sb: #13622-Undead Proci
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

    Will definitely try that Kevin. My limited understanding of OS9 makes me
jump to quick conclusions.
                                      Paul

#: 13630 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Dec-91  09:31:31
Sb: #13622-#Undead Proci
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

    Yep, that "w" command works real fine! How'd you figure that out?
                                                          (grin)
                                    Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13651 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  01:48:38
Sb: #13630-#Undead Proci
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

GRIN.  Well, a "DEAD" process is one that's given up all its memory, and all
its paths... the only thing left is a tiny process descriptor holding the error
code (or non-error code :-) about its death.

That's so the parent process can do a Wait call and find out this info if it
wants to.   So until the parent does the Wait (or until the parent itself dies,
in which case the dead child's error code is not needed any more), you'll see
the DEAD notice show up.

If you simply give a command to the shell, he'll fork it off and then Wait. But
if you tell the shell to put the command in the background, he'll fork it off
and NOT Wait to see what happened, but instead go ahead and get another command
line from you.

In a nutshell, that's why you had to tell the shell to wait ("w").  By forking
off other commands (like the deiniz which errored out) you were allowing the
shell to wait once (which would pick up on one dead child), but then shell
didn't know about the new dead guy you had just generated. More or less luck
that he'd pick up on it after a coupla times :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13668 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  15:18:16
Sb: #13651-Undead Proci
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

    That actually clears up a lot of things for me. Thanks.
                                                            Paul

#: 13644 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    24-Dec-91  17:40:21
Sb: Greetings
Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142
To: All

Dear Friends: In a few hours I will be going before the Altar for Mass.
Christmas Eve is always a time when we remember our benefactors. In my prayers,
I will be remembering you...your many acts of kindness towards me during this
past year. You have helped me learn a great deal about computers, but more
 than that, you have shown a wonderful spirit of friendship to one another.
Thank you for letting me be a part of it all. May God bless each of you and all
who are near and dear to you on this Holy Night.

With all best wishes,

Br. Jeremy, CSJW.

#: 13646 S1/General Interest
    24-Dec-91  17:47:59
Sb: #Christmas!
Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662
To: all




Merry Christmas to all!!!   No snow this year   :-(

      . ..   .
     .  .   .  .
  .    .    .. .
    . .    .   .        <-- Artificial

Hugo

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13671 S1/General Interest
    25-Dec-91  19:52:08
Sb: #13646-#Christmas!
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X)

No snow?  You must've got the sparklies problem on your CoCo3 fixed...

Lee

P.S.  And a happy winter solstice to you, too!!!!!!!!!! L V

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13698 S1/General Interest
    26-Dec-91  21:16:45
Sb: #13671-Christmas!
Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

You know, I never had sparklies on either my first 1986 vintage COCO 3 (which
was killed by a power surge) or the second one which I am now using.

Hugo

#: 13648 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    24-Dec-91  18:05:06
Sb: !!SCRED!!
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Anyone

    Does anyone here use 'scred'. I know someone's going to bite my
 head off and tell me to get a different editor, but I'm actually
 used to the keys now.
    Here's the question: using the 'ch' command I can change things
 like Cntl-L and Cntl-J to spaces, but how can I 'ch' something like
 a Cntl-H to a null character?
                               Paul

#: 13655 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  02:56:49
Sb: #NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Brian Steward 73427,2643
To: kevin darling

   Kevin,  I don't know Bob Santy's Number so I'm addressing this you with the
hopes you can get him the message or maybe he'll see it.  A friend of mine
found a serious problem with the new RBF patch.  If you use a utility called MV
or CP and move a file from one directory to the other then delete it.  The
allocation map dosn't get updated to free up the disk space.  It's pretty
serious when your moving 1+meg files around and then deleteing them, only to
find out that the free space keeps getting smaller and smaller. I'm thinking
that the new rbf might be having a problem with the link count or something.  I
would recommend taking it out of the database until it's fixed.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13656 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  04:10:29
Sb: #13655-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Brian Steward 73427,2643 (X)

Brian - yikes, and thanks.  Doesn't make much sense that that would happen, but
hmm... wonder if it's related to the fact that the new RBF doesn't delete the
old FD info.  Can you find out where his mv and cp commands came from, and if
there's source for them around?   thx again!  I think Bob will probably see
this within a coupla days.  - kev

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13659 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  09:39:53
Sb: #13656-NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Brian Steward 73427,2643
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,  The utilities in question I belive are either in the download sections
here or on delphi.  I have discovered what is going on.  When a file gets moved
the link count gets incremented on the new file and when the origianl file gets
deleted the link count is supposed to be decremented, which it is not doing. 
The utilities work fine without the new patch,  So if the FD sector isin't
being touched at all, that is the problem.  The link count does get incremented
but never gets decremented.  The same problem exsists when using the CP -L
option, which just links the program do a different directory,  when you del
one of the filenames, the link count dosn't get decremented. Thanx for the
quick response.

#: 13687 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Dec-91  01:11:07
Sb: #13656-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Michael P. Brown 76220,1014
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

  Hi Kevin.  I'm the weirdo who found this problem.  Despite the name above,
I'm using a friend's account since I don't have one here.  My name is Charles
West, and I met you at the 1990 Atlanta CoCoFest and traded messages with you
on the Hayes BBS for awhile prior to the MM/1 unveiling.

  CP was made by Jamie S. Wilmoth.  I though MV was distributed by the OS-9
user group (not sure about that) and was written by Eric Williams.  Both
programs were obtained from either CIS or Delphi (not sure which) and are also
available on my BBS (405-752-8955).

  Another way to test this may be with Dupfile by Brian C. White, another
program I've seen in use.  It does with MV and CP -m does except for the
removal of the original directory reference.  In essence, it creates a second
copy of a directory enttry elsewhere on the directory tree from the original
and increments the FD.LNK byte in the file descriptor sector.

  Using the old RBF, if you tried to delete a file whose link count was greater
than 1, only the requested directory entry was "nulled" and the link count was
decremented.  Deleting the last copy of the file would result in reallocation
of that file's space in the FAT and apparantly blank out the sector references
in the file descriptor.   Curiously enough, the link count byte (even under the
old RBF) does not get set to $00 when the last copy of the file is deleted.

   ...But of course, that byte is irrelevant in such a case.

  I hope this helps.  Thanks for listening.

             -CRW



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13692 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Dec-91  09:43:58
Sb: #13687-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Michael P. Brown 76220,1014 (X)

Hi Charles!  Sure, I remember meeting ya!

Good find on the link count.  I'm beginning to wonder if I posted something
made from an old RBF update tho... poor Bob didn't know I was going to do this
<grin>.

You're right about the link count not being decremented here.  Looking at the
source I have, it's because the FD is saved off beforehand (it has to be, of
course, to put back all the segment info that RBF will give up, so that files
can be undeleted later)... and so the link count stays the same.

Thanks again for finding it! - kev

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13693 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Dec-91  11:11:36
Sb: #13692-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Sure enough guys!  The problem was that the FD was being saved BEFORE the link
count was decremented and therefore the link count NEVER got decremented on
disk.  I've fixed the problem with the disk based link count.

After the FINAL delete, the link count is now (RBF version 30) zero on disk.
The problem with that is the UnDel command had to be changed to make the link
count on disk a non-zero value.  I used one.  I think that will work just fine
since we are un-deleting the file and restoring it to base condition.  So,
we'll need a new RBF (Version 30) and a new UnDel command. I'll upload them
ASAP if I can get some answers to the following:

1. The file is ALWAYS removed (1st byte of the name set to null) from the
directory REGARDLESS of the link count.  If the link count of a file is greater
than one and the file is deleted (I$Delete), the file name is gone but the
space is NOT returned.  One hopes that the file is still opened (presumably by
some other process) so that the link count can finally get to zero and the
space recovered.

2. I ran into the infamous B.L.O.B. during testing of RBF.  It seems that if
CC3Disk is NOT loaded at an ODD address, the floppies will act very strangely. 
Now, that's MY version of CC3Disk and it's in my bootlist right after RBF.  If
RBF (at an even address) was an even numberof bytes, CC3Disk was intermittent. 
I added a NOP to RBF and CC3Disk was OK.  Any other possible explanations?  Doe
the floppy interrupt handler have to be at an ODD address??????

I'll be waiting for more discussion before I upload.

P.S.  Last time I tried to upload a file to the data libraries, I got the
message that they were full.

Bob Santy

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13695 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Dec-91  18:39:07
Sb: #13693-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Brian Steward 73427,2643
To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X)

  Bob, With rbf v28  the link count never gets to zero.  If you create a file
then delete it, you will notice that the link count still says 1. you are
correct with your statement about if the link count is greater than 1 the file
still exsists someplace on the disk, and as soon as the link count goes to 1
then the Bitmap Allocation table will then be updated also.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13696 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Dec-91  18:56:36
Sb: #13695-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714
To: Brian Steward 73427,2643 (X)

Brian:

Well, with RBF 30, the link count will be zero for a deleted file.  We we were
previously not allowed to see that condition because the FD was trashed in the
final delete.  So now the link count of a deleted file's FD will be zero. 
UnDel will set it back to one when it's recovered.

Bob

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13711 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Dec-91  20:32:51
Sb: #13696-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Michael P. Brown 76220,1014
To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X)

  Yep, I was suprised tto see the link count equalling 1 on a deleted file with
the old RBF.  I think your update of having it set to zero is appropriate.

           -CRW

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13726 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  08:19:44
Sb: #13711-NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714
To: Michael P. Brown 76220,1014

Thanks for the response, Michael.  I suppose we could have set it to one just
as easily, but RBF really sets it to zero.  The only problem is UnDel. You have
to have the UnDel supplied in RBF30.ar.

Bob

#: 13710 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Dec-91  20:28:03
Sb: #13692-NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Michael P. Brown 76220,1014
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

  You're welcome... though it's no great feat - if I hadn't, someone else would
have.  The little glitch in now way diminshes your (plural) magnanimous gesture
of giving us this little gem.

  I, too, run into situations where something I program is used in such a way
that I wouldn't normally use it... thereby exposing the cracks. It's all part
of the fun, eh?

                -CRW

#: 13658 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  09:37:39
Sb: #13655-#NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714
To: Brian Steward 73427,2643 (X)

Brian:

I just checked out RBF with a 1+ Meg file and had no problem retaining the
proper amount of free space on the disk after a move of the file.  Maybe the
move command that you are using could have a problem.  What move are you using?

Bob

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13661 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  09:58:04
Sb: #13658-NEW RBF PATCH
Fm: Brian Steward 73427,2643
To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X)

  Bob,  What is happening is when a file gets moved or linked to a different
directory the link count gets incremented by 1, and when it gets deleted, the
link count is supposed to be decremented by 1, which is not happening.  Try
this experiment and you'll see that it's not the utilities at fault.  Using
your favorite disk editor,  edit the link count on a file to 2.  Del the file. 
you'll find that the file is deleted, and the link count is still set to 2. and
the fe space is still being taken up.  That's what is happening with the rbf
patch.  If you try the same thing with the old rbf you'll find that the link
count does get decremented. Now, to recover the space the file is occuping,  
edit the link count on the file to 1, then edit the directory entry to recover
the filename then delete it and should be well again.

#: 13664 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Dec-91  12:57:09
Sb: MM/1 Palette (cgfx.l)
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: all

Hi all... I'm trying to write in C for the MM/1. I think the cgfx.l Palette
command has a problem. Try compiling and running this: main() {
  int x,y;

  for(x=0;x<256;x++)
    {
      Palette(1,2,x,00,00);
      for(y=0;y<1500;y++);
    }

  for(x=0;x<256;x++)
    {
      Palette(1,2,00,x,00);
      for(y=0;y<1500;y++);
    }

  for(x=0;x<256;x++)
    {
      Palette(1,2,00,00,x);
      for(y=0;y<1500;y++);
    }

  system("display 1b 31 02 00 00 40");

}
 See if it works on your MM/1. On mine, it outputs a '1' for every time Palette
is called. And blue doesn't change at all! Can anyone see an error in my code
that would cause this?

#: 13665 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  14:03:40
Sb: #multivue
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: all

I would like to change the boarder of my multivue screen to black or blue! I
have the gshell2 patch but it won't work with my gshell! Any help?



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13674 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  21:57:55
Sb: #13665-multivue
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

I've never tried any such thing but it seems you can do this from the Multi-Vue
Control Panel and/or editing the env.file that is in your /dd/SYS directory. 
If this doesn't do it perhaps you can create a graphics screen the way you want
it with a shell in it and then start MultiVue with the command multistart. 
Just remove MultiVue's autoex from your /dd/CMDS directory or rename it to
something else.  Except for name, autoex and multistart are the same thing.  If
none of these work maybe someone who really knows will post the answer.

#: 13677 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Dec-91  23:19:01
Sb: #13251-MM/1 delivery
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hard to say just when.  Ed wants to re-do the manual, a job that I will stick
him with if he insists. I need to desigtn a workaround for the lack of
SS_KeySense (or else get a strong rumor that Kev D has finally added it) -- the
workaround would use the ALT key and not be difficult, so I'll go ahead,
probvably. Meanwhile we need to get the circuit out for the play-only MIDI
hardware-requires a crystal TTL oscillator, not a RatShack item unforch.

But at least the scores are 100% cokmpatible with Coco. You might ask to be a
Beta tester...mike k

#: 13680 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Dec-91  23:26:29
Sb: #13260-#MM/1 delivery
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glad to hear you're back in the UME market.  OSK version is being held up by a
coupe things, but what's there is great.  Call (919) 294-1558, that's Kala
Software, when the time comes.

Sounds like your machine got lost in mail -- if Paul says it shippED (as
opposed to "shipping this weekend", etc.), then it went out. Guess UPS doesn't
know these MM/1s are rarer than Rembrandts and need careful tratment :-)  After
work hours, Paul7;s phone now becomes a BBS modem where you can leave email for
him and come back for replies-have you tried that?  --mike k

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13688 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Dec-91  02:25:04
Sb: #13680-MM/1 delivery
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Hi Mike... I've got my MM/1. No I/O board or HD yet, but by late January I hope
to be 'in business'. As it is, I'm using it regularly with 2 floppy drives. I
do plan to be a customer - I definitely want Ultimuse for this machine.
Regarding being a beta tester - do I qualify? Wouldn't mind wringing your
program out, if you're interested..., but can't help ya till late Jan. or Feb.

#: 13678 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Dec-91  23:20:06
Sb: #13255-#MM/1,SKEL, & Rodents
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Messy Dog == MessDog == MSDOG == Idiots Buy Me substitute for OS. --mike k

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13700 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Dec-91  21:57:35
Sb: #13678-MM/1,SKEL, & Rodents
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

   Idiots Buy Me. I like that. What's that other operating system; Eunichs?

#: 13679 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Dec-91  23:22:44
Sb: #13256-MM/1,SKEL, & Rodents
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X)

Thanks for info on Artec.  Yeah, I should probably exchange my mouse with Mark
G for a new one.  "Mouse System" equals Logitech, does not equal Micro soft. 
Also I think some mice say PC or XT for Logitech and AT for Microsoft. And I
used to think the PC world was organized and standardized and it was us Coco
and OSK freaks that were all messed up -- hoo boy did I get that wrong!

#: 13681 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Dec-91  23:29:10
Sb: #13300-#MM/1,SKEL, & Rodents
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Hmmmm....from what I heard, a mouse can't be both Microsoft and Logitech/MSys
compatible -- unless there's a little selector switch, which my Artec mouse
does indeed have.  Switch sez "PC-3 Key" for Logitech and "MS-2 key" for
Microsoft.  Key means buttons of course (or "ears" on a catfood mouse :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13694 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Dec-91  18:30:58
Sb: #13681-MM/1,SKEL, & Rodents
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Well, the ones I've seen say Microsoft and Mouse Systems compatible, and they
don't have a switch.  Oh well, I found a Logitech mouse for $50 (it's called
the 'FirstMouse').  It has three buttons and looks pretty good.  When I get my
I/O board (Paul said he had it in-house a week or so ago, so maybe soon?) I'll
go get the FirstMouse and try it out.

  Wish me luck!  ;)

  --Colin

#: 13682 S1/General Interest
    25-Dec-91  23:36:09
Sb: #13269-mm1 step rates
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

About 80-track 5.25" disks -- I used to have one on my Coco OS9 system. It was
great, but you can no longer find diskettes explicitly made for it (ie,
certified 96 TPI but NOT the HI-Density).  SO you have to buy good quality 48
TPI floppies and attend church regularly and still put up with errors.  I
finally replaced it with a 3.5" 720K job, which also is nice for transferring
to/from the MM/1.  Thanks to the Triple-A 68K computer brands, there are lots
of diskettes available for that.  --mike k

#: 13683 S3/Languages
    25-Dec-91  23:38:27
Sb: #13272-OS-9/68000 Assembler
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X)

Must be some kinda mistake.  There are lots of "complete idiot" books for 80x86
series CPUs, and MessyDOG.  Your being on this forum disqualifies you from
being a Cokmkplete Idiot.  Sorrry :-)

#: 13691 S3/Languages
    26-Dec-91  09:37:42
Sb: #13337-OS-9/68000 Assembler
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X)

Hi again... a reminder:  if you get an error or can't figure out which library
to link in, etc... just post the info and question here.  That should save some
hair-tearing, and it won't take long from that point to where you'll find it
all second-nature!

cheers - kev

#: 13684 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Dec-91  23:42:03
Sb: #13280-Disto II
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130

Check your cable and connectors.  If you still have stock RatShack connectors
on there plus "real" connectors you added yourself, amazing things (like what
you describe) happen when you accidentally stick one of the Tandy connectors on
your new (or retainted) drives. Never mind how I know this....mike k

#: 13685 S7/Telecommunications
    25-Dec-91  23:48:08
Sb: #13307-#SC2.1A YMODEM Probs
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

CIS does not speak YModem at all, only XModem.  Yes, they call it YModem on the
menus, and still geta away with it, but it's bull. OSTerm locks up completlely
on CIS if you try YModem.  ANother service at a fraction of the cost handles
YModem just fine ^-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13686 S7/Telecommunications
    26-Dec-91  00:22:59
Sb: #13685-SC2.1A YMODEM Probs
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

The only thing that seems to work when I declare YMOdem to CIS is when I use
ZTerm 0.85 on the Mac.  Is ZTerm therefore a one-of-a-kind?

#: 13697 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Dec-91  19:02:02
Sb: #RBF 30
Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714
To: ALL

Well, I uploaded RBF30.ar in DL 10 anyway.  Let me know if there are any
problems with it.

Note that there are two new features and an added feature in UnDel.

1. RBF allows undeleted files and fixes the link count bug.

2. RBF (actually RBF 29 too) has a signal on file modification status call.

3. UnDel allows deleted directory as well as file recovery.  You can even
recover a directory and all of it's files if UnDel is used first for the
directory and then for the files in it.  Of course, you must have previously
not used the space for another file.

Have fun!  Happy Hollidays!!

Bob Santy

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13703 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Dec-91  00:04:37
Sb: #13697-#RBF 30
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Bob Santy 76417,714 (X)

Thanks Bob!  Sorry to have made you do extra work over the holidays, tho :-)

kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13704 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Dec-91  07:50:21
Sb: #13703-RBF 30
Fm: Bob Santy 76417,714
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)


No problem Kevin.  It was an obvious bug once told the symptoms! /

#: 13702 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Dec-91  22:16:20
Sb: #Parallel Driver
Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762
To: All

I use a Disto 3 in 1 board with the SC 2 controller. To eliminate a problem
with their PARALLEL driver (spurious line feeds at the oddest times) I patched
the driver using paral.ar from LIB 10.

OK, the spurious line feeds are gone. But now I occasionally get double
characters. Not often, mind you, but about 3 or 4 times in a ten page document
(thus necessitating the reprinting of 3 or 4 pages). Any suggestions, anyone?
I'm using a Star NX1000. I'm getting tired of having to take disks to my older
CoCo 3 with the Disto SC I controller and 2 in 1 board. At least that one
prints fine.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13705 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Dec-91  10:51:53
Sb: #13702-#Parallel Driver
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X)

Ian -

Had this problem on an OLD Sanyo 550 PC clone. The problem is that the data
strobe line is staying active a hair too long, and the clocking time for a
second character is occasionally met. Just shorten the time the STROBE line is
held active, and that'll get it for you.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13715 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Dec-91  22:26:05
Sb: #13705-#Parallel Driver
Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Pete. Sounds possible. Now I'll have to see where the timing is done for the
strobe. Don't know if it is hardware or software timed. I suppose the first
thing to do is to look at it and compare it to the spec for the printer. No
point in trying to fix it if it ain't broke!

I do notice from a quick disassembly of the driver that the character to be
printed seems to be written twice in succession in this version (not in the old
one). Sounds like a kludge that sometimes explodes.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13740 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  20:09:01
Sb: #13715-Parallel Driver
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X)

The strobe, assuming you're using a traditional parallel port (Centronics), the
strobe is just a bit on the parallel port, and it's under software control.

Pete

#: 13707 S1/General Interest
    27-Dec-91  13:36:24
Sb: Other Real-Time OSs
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: all

The company I work for is currently looking for a new hardware and software
combination on which to base our next generation of our products. We build
protocol converters typically for use with mainframe computers, our current
custom hardware uses multiple 6809s, one per user port.

A major issue for us regarding new hardware/software is "time to market," so we
are interested in using a standard off the shelf hardware platform that has
multiple suppliers. We don't particularly care what the underlying hardware is
as long as it is capable of giving us the performance that we need.

I am looking to license C source code for the protocols (SNA, HDLC, SDLC, UDLC,
Bisync, etc.) and then choose some sort of real-time operating system or kernel
and then finally choose a hardware platform to run on.

OS-9 68000 & 9000 are a couple of obvious choices but I am also investigating
other alternatives and this is the basis of my question:

Does anyone here have any experience with other real-time operating systems or
kernels such as Kadak Products' AMX, MicroDigital's SMX, Quantum Software
Systems' QNX, Digital Research's FlexOS, A.T. Barrett's RTXC, or U S Software's
EasyTask!?

If so, please either leave your comments here or else drop me your telephone
number via E-Mail and I'll give you a call.

All comments welcome as this is getting complicated in a hurry and the more
input I can get the better!

Thanks,

-J



#: 13708 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon
    27-Dec-91  17:33:11
Sb: StG BBS Package
Fm: Jim Sutemeier 70673,1754
To: all

To those who have downloaded the StG BBS Package, we forgot to include one
short ar group of files that will be necessary to get your BBS up and running.

Just uploaded to DL8 is StG_SYS.ar, and it contains necessary files to get you
going.

Enjoy!!

jim Sutemeier <Plain Rap> BBS

#: 13713 S1/General Interest
    27-Dec-91  22:05:27
Sb: #6809 OK, probs remain
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: ALL

Marty Goodman on Delphi suggested I try downgrading my CoCo3 to 128K and see
what happens; he added that I could for now I could leave out the

two capacitors I earlier removed for the 512K upgrade.  I did power up in ECB
2.0!  So now I know that the 6809 was really OK after all. But some problems
remain.  I can get disk operation with the FD-502 going right into the
cartridge slot but I cannot get disk operation at all with the Slot Pak III
plugged in.  I booted OS-9 from my copy of the original

distribution disk since I know it can boot into 128K but I have more problems. 
I modpatched /d0 and /d1 for 40tks dsdd and 80 tks dsdd respectfully.  My /d1
is 3.5".  Whenever I try to access data on the 3.5" disks I always get a ERROR
249.  I formatted a disk and it did format to 80 tks dsdd just fine, and I
could dir and free it. Just not with an existing disk.  At stake is the
entirety of my erased hard drive which I will want to restore albeit with stock
interleave so I must do something, but what?

Erich Schulman (KTN4CA)

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13717 S1/General Interest
    27-Dec-91  23:41:02
Sb: #13713-6809 OK, probs remain
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

    Glad to see things are at least workable now.

#: 13721 S1/General Interest
    28-Dec-91  01:51:25
Sb: #13713-#6809 OK, probs remain
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich - it does sound like your 128K boot's d1 descriptor isn't quite set up
right.  An error 249 would almost always come from the disk saying it needs
more capabilities than the descriptor says that the drive has.

Umm.  Could it be the density "dns" value?  Is it set to 1 or 3?

kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13746 S1/General Interest
    28-Dec-91  22:06:26
Sb: #13721-#6809 OK, probs remain
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

I would have to go look at it.  All I did was take the d1 descriptor as it
comes on the original distribution disk and used modpatch to set tracks to 80
(from 35) and sides to 2 (from 1), and I changed the step rate from 3 to 0 or 0
to 3, whatever sets it to 6mS.  I didn't try to change the density. 
Unfortunately I don't recall how I got my normal /d1 descriptor. I may have
taken the supplied d1_80d.dd or I may have modpatched the supplied d1_40d.dd. 
I'd check my boot disk revision notes except that I cannot access that disk
anymore.  I'll have to post my findings later.  I no longer have use of my Slot
Pak III which means no RS-232 pak which means I'm reduced to the DC Modem Pak
and its built-in term pgm.  I used that last time I was on.  Now I'm once again
using someone else's Macintosh so I will get an 80-column display and ANSI for
the BBS I haven't been able to call for a long time.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13753 S1/General Interest
    29-Dec-91  10:42:16
Sb: #13746-#6809 OK, probs remain
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

Erich -

Then that may be your gotcha. The It.DNS byte needs to be set to 03 for 80
trackers (96tpi). Most drivers these days are also smart enough to double step
if a 48 tpi (40 tracker/35 tracker) is detected when reading LSN0.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13762 S1/General Interest
    29-Dec-91  22:42:45
Sb: #13753-6809 OK, probs remain
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230

I checked it out and that was indeed the problem.  I checked all the 3.5" disks
containing the hard drive and one existing disk and all was in order.  I now
most suspect the 41256 DRAMs as being *one of* my problem areas so I have 16
new ones coming.  If they don't help I'll see about getting a 0K board.  I like
the advantages of a 512K system but that board was a nightmare to install and
has caused so many problems ever since. I may just give in and purchase a true
Tandy board and install it myself; maybe that will be reliable (at that price I
should certainly hope so). My other problem as you may have seen is a dead Slot
Pak.  It may be a while before I can get another one of those.  I was on a
waiting list to get the one I have.  And then have the next one die in 9
months--better get two of 'em.  I'm getting OK results from Ultimaterm 4.1 on
the bitbanger port now that I found my TRS-80 Telephone Interface II acoustic
modem and pulled its 4-pin DIN adapter.  From what I've heard about /t1 at bps
rates >0 I suppose I'm through with sterm and SuperComm for a while. And nearly
OS-9 too by being back down to 128K with 56K free on startup (I was getting
360-368K depending on boot disk used).

#: 13714 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Dec-91  22:23:13
Sb: #Recovering RAM
Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762
To: All

Question. I usually use a ramdisk but occasionally want to recover the memory
without rebooting. Deiniz works fine, but... Each time I chd to /r0 the user
count is incremented. Changing to another directory does not decrement the
count. After a busy session of moving stuff around I have to type "deiniz /r0"
many times before the user count hits zero and I get my memory back. Is there a
better way?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13720 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  00:43:57
Sb: #13714-Recovering RAM
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X)

Are you using a RAMdisk like that in the Developer's Pak?  One which you must
iniz to use?  If so you will need different RAMdisk software.  What I use came
with my 512K upgrade.  You install Ram.dr and r0_xxx.dd in your boot file.  I
found they will not work with the RBF devices so I have them positioned right
before PipeMan.  You then use Rdisk <blocks> to start the RAMdisk where blocks
is the number of 8K blocks you want to assign to the RAMdisk.  When you're done
with it, just Rdisk t to terminate the RAMdisk and recover all its memory. If
you use the RAMdisk only occasionally you can avoid putting the driver and
descriptor in the bootfile (and avoid the BLOB at the same time) by loading and
unlinking them as necessary but this will waste memory.  If you use the RAMdisk
a lot, you may want to merge Rdisk

into your shell.  This RAMdisk appears to be <100%-RBF compatible but I think
the flexibility and being able to start and lose the RAMdisk on the fly is
worth it.

#: 13722 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  01:53:23
Sb: #13714-#Recovering RAM
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X)

Ian - long ago, there was a utility called, I think, "detach".  It simply
called I$Detach a zillion times on a device :-)

The same thing could be written into a basic09 command or something which
called "deiniz" about 256 times.  Also, be sure to chd/chx away from the
ramdisk before doing this, so the system won't get too confused (not sure it
will, but better safe etc).

best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13739 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  20:07:31
Sb: #13722-Recovering RAM
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)


Kev -

Yup - think I wrote it in the dark days. There was a detach, and there was an
unload I believe.

Pete

#: 13724 S9/Utilities
    28-Dec-91  04:15:47
Sb: #Ar v1.4
Fm: edward langenback 73510,145
To: all


does anyone still have version 1.4 of Ar?   seems i deleted it without first
converting some *VERY* important archives to another format.

i'd really appreciate it a LOT if someone could e-mail me a copy of it.

the archives involved are the without doubt the most important files in the
entire universe, and i need to get at them *yesterday*!

   thanks,


            -Ed.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13743 S9/Utilities
    28-Dec-91  20:31:46
Sb: #13724-Ar v1.4
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: edward langenback 73510,145

AR 1.4 is in the Utilities library (DL 9).

Lee



#: 13728 S5/OS9 Users Group
    28-Dec-91  09:22:49
Sb: #Sources for Info Sheet
Fm: George Dorner 70536,106
To: OS-  9 UG Advisers

I am wrapping up some correspondence for the demised OS-9 Users Group and could
use some advice and help. Your responses to this note will be appreciated.

I have over twenty letters to respond to regarding disks, books, and general
inquiries about the UG which fell in a crack down in Florida when the mail
service there was closed.  Most are from abroad including the UK, France,
Belgium, Australia, Germany, Norway, Brazil, Poland, Romania, Italy, and
Hungary.  I am most interested in passing on good information about how to plug
into info resources about OS-9.

1.  Help me with the current sources of OS-9 info which you know about:
    What is the current OS-9 activity on the internet ??  Is there still a
      forum going there?  Several correspondents included internet
      addresses.

... What about Delphi, Genie, et al??  I am unplugged from those now
      and only use CIS for my email and forum activities.

... Is there foreign access to the various landline BBS systems which
     may have OS-9 info??

2.  I have both 3 1/2 " & 5 1/4 " diskettes formatted in MW
      universal format and which are to be filled with various library
      software.  I am unable to do this and plan to recommend the
      libraries here (and on other sources?) instead unless one of you
      steps forward.

3.  Are any OS-9 publications alive?  Is the "OSKer Newsletter" from
      Indianapolis still afoot?  I haven't seen a Rainbow on my
      newstands for a while, but I assume it's still available.

4.  What other info should be in such a handout?  I will upload a final
       version of all info to this forum before sending it off.

I hope to wrap this all up before the New Year.  Your timely help will be
greatly appreciated.

george dorner, ex-treasurer of the ex-OS-9 Users Group



There are 3 Replies.

#: 13729 S5/OS9 Users Group
    28-Dec-91  09:59:05
Sb: #13728-Sources for Info Sheet
Fm: edward langenback 73510,145
To: George Dorner 70536,106

 Network os-9 talk can be found on the cocolist to subscribe send e-mail to:
listserve@pucc.princeton.edu and use the line "subscribe coco" followed by
subscribers read name, then all cocolist stuff will automatically be e-mailed
to the subscriber. also, Usenet has comp.os.os9 and comp.sys.m6809 newsgroups
FidoNet carries OS9CN -->the OS-9 Comunity Network, (sorta stepping in where
the UG left off), COCO echo, OS9 echo, and RiBBS echo.

Rainbow is still there, though magazine size is down to around 50 pages or so
the last time i saw one.  about the only way to get it anymore is by
subscription, as they've cut out almost allnewstand sales. cis and delphi both
have CoCo and OS-9 sigs, can't say about any others as i'm not on 'em.[^^^^
LOTs of files avail in both sigs on both systems]


oops, that address above should be listserv@pucc.princeton.edu

l8r..

#: 13737 S5/OS9 Users Group
    28-Dec-91  18:58:59
Sb: #13728-Sources for Info Sheet
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: George Dorner 70536,106

You might want to download the OS-9 Community Network information in the MISC
section and advise us on how we can best take over where the old group left
off.

#: 13758 S5/OS9 Users Group
    29-Dec-91  16:55:14
Sb: #13728-Sources for Info Sheet
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: George Dorner 70536,106

George,

In addition to the files found here as well as the CoCo List (already mentioned
in another reply) there are two archives that have OS9 interests.

On wuarchive (wuarchive.wustl.edu) the os9 archives can be found in
/systems/os9. This is accessable via NFS or FTP.

Another archive site would be hermit.cs.wisc.edu . This one has a mail server
that can be contacted with a 'help' command sent to ftp@hermit.cs.wisc.edu.

I presently maintain wuarchive, so inquires can be addressed to me at
steve@wuarchive.wustl.edu.

Hope this helps some.

Steve

#: 13734 S5/OS9 Users Group
    28-Dec-91  14:44:58
Sb: #os-9 manual
Fm: ALBERT 72570,2302
To: sysop (X)

HELP:
        I am haveing problems looking for a os-9 manual.anyone that can help I
sure would be happy.I have this program kings quest 111, and it wont run on the
cmds that come with the disks.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13741 S5/OS9 Users Group
    28-Dec-91  20:13:33
Sb: #13734-#os-9 manual
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ALBERT 72570,2302 (X)

Albert -

If you want the REAL manuals, Frank Hogg Labs used to sell the real Microware
manuals at about $40 for the set of three. Microware may still have some on the
shelves as well.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13755 S5/OS9 Users Group
    29-Dec-91  12:39:07
Sb: #13741-#os-9 manual
Fm: ALBERT 72570,2302
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

PETE:
   Where do I send for this address or can I order from here.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13756 S5/OS9 Users Group
    29-Dec-91  15:11:56
Sb: #13755-os-9 manual
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ALBERT 72570,2302

Albert -

Frank logs in here occasionally. He also may have some ads in the DL12 area ...

Also - you can get in touch with Microware in their forum here via GO MSC.

Pete

#: 13735 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  17:29:56
Sb: #os9bootfile
Fm: Denise Tomlinson 71021,3274
To: all

I have been learning os9 and am finding out that it is really exciting what you
can do with it. One question? When I use EZGEN on os9boot, what module holds
the tools that are loaded after the initalization? For instance, I no longer
use SETIME since I have a smartwatch driver. But setime is in the boot. I would
like to use EZGEN and clean up my boot. I used it to patch the CC3Disk to use
the utils by BOB SANTY and it works great. Thanks, Denise

There are 2 Replies.

#: 13742 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  20:26:15
Sb: #13735-#os9bootfile
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Denise Tomlinson 71021,3274

Setime is a command that should not be in the boot, it might be MERGEd into the
"stock" OS9 SHELL, but it's been along time since I've used a "stock" SHELL. 
In any case, even if you didn't have the Smartwatch driver, you still wouldn't
want SETIME in the BOOT file.

On you next message, you might want to send a list of the modules that are in
your boot.

Lee



There is 1 Reply.

#: 13752 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Dec-91  02:37:14
Sb: #13742-#os9bootfile
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

I usually use Shell+ (except now when I have a dead CoCo3) but I have had to on
occasion revert to the standard shell.  Setime is indeed merged with the
standard shell.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 13760 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Dec-91  18:57:49
Sb: #13752-os9bootfile
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175 (X)

I'm confused, now, I responded to Denise Tomlinson, and now Erich is answering.

Oh, well, in addition to what Kevin was saying about removing the line in your
STARTUP procedure that reads:  SETIME </1...

If you truly don't need to have the time set with setime because of having a
smartwatch installed in your system, then you can also customize your SHELL by
removing SETIME from the MERGEd programs in there.

You can use a utility called SEPARATE (I think it's in DL9 or 10), to bust the
shell apart, then you can delete the setime utility, if it's there.

Then you can use the space that had been taken up by SETIME for some other
useful utility of equal or lesser size.  Then MERGE the individual programs
back into your NEW.SHELL.  SETIME, on my system anyay, is only 280 bytes long,
but you might have another often used utility that would be more useful to you.

PWD and PXD are possible candidates for inclusion, but each is a little bit
bigger than the 280 bytes freed by SETIME.  However, with a little finagling,
you might be able to fit one or both of them in there.

Let's us know how things work out.

Lee

#: 13747 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Dec-91  22:22:44
Sb: #13735-os9bootfile
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Denise Tomlinson 71021,3274

Denise - as Lee said, "setime" is probably merged in with your shell file in
the CMDS dir... or perhaps it's loaded in at startup.

Check your "startup" text file on your boot disk (or hard disk).  I bet it has
"setime </1" in it.  If so, delete that line and you're done.

Yeah, it's fun to customize! :-)  kev

#: 13754 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Dec-91  10:47:14
Sb: Parallel saga
Fm: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762
To: All

The saga of the parallel driver continues. To all those who responded to my
earlier queries, thanks. As it turns out, the strobe is strictly *hardware*
timed on the Disto 4 in 1 board so there didn't seem to be much point in
barking up that tree.

But, I disassembled the parallel driver (the patched one from paral.ar in LIB
10) and re-discovered that two writes were done to the parallel port in
immediate succession, perhaps in an effort to extend the width of the strobe
pulse for a slow printer. Editing out one of the writes and reassembling seems
to have cured the problem with the duplicate characters completely, and
operation is now completely normal.

Ummmm... well, not 1000% perhaps. Once, and only once, so far, a very odd thing
happened while I was exploding a file into its modules (which had nothing at
all to do with the printer). The printer suddenly printed out a very neat
diagram of its DIP switch settings. According to the NX1000 manual, the ability
to print status does not exist. Hmmmm..... But I can't make it happen again. I
will delay posting a new IPatch for Parallel until I have used it for a couple
of weeks.

#: 13761 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    29-Dec-91  21:34:21
Sb: MM1 Questions:
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: all

Hi all... I have a few questions on the MM/1: 1. Do the cgfx.l functions go
directly to hardware? Were they written in C or assembler? If they just spit
codes at the screen and were written in C, I can replace the ones I can't get
to work with my own without a speed penalty. 2. Can't get _ss_palette to work.
Compiles and runs, but doesn't put the data in the PRN's. Should I be including
something (.h file) or searching a particular lib, other than cgfx.l? 3. Is the
'keyboard mouse' supported on the MM/1? 4. Anyone close to IMS know when we can
expect some manuals? 5. Has anyone done anything with OddJob? A few examples
would be nice to help get us started, if anyone has any...

Press <CR> !>