read new nonstop follow
91183 3-JAN 22:19  Users Group
     RE: OS9 UG renewals (Re: Msg 91169)
     From: THETAURUS    To: DBREEDING

            >>...I think it's a good decision to not try to have a lot
          of tutorials etc. but to concentrate on what's new and going
          on and possibly giving hints on what we can do to help.<<

            Agreed, bigtime. Save those for the magazines that are
          still standing. The MOTD IMO, should focus on the things you
          menioned, and informing the community about the community
          and what is going on around relating to OS-9. Joel's new
          interview series is a good idea, and it's good to see 'From
          The Horses Mouth' continuing, even if DCCS has been out for
          months now<Grin>.

            >Chris<

-*-

91195 4-JAN 00:34  Users Group
     RE: OS9 UG renewals (Re: Msg 91169)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: DBREEDING

David,

 > Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed it.  I really like the way it is done..

Thanks, glad you enjoy reading it!

 > Personally, much as I love to see all types of articles, I think it's
 > a good decision to not try to have a lot of tutorials etc. but to
 > concentrate on what's new and going on and possibly giving hints on what
 > we can do to help.

Very true, it's best to have a good mix.

  -- Joel.


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91184 3-JAN 22:20  General Information
     OS-9 Late Night
     From: THETAURUS    To: ALL

exit
            This is just a reminder that next weeks installment of
          'OS-9 Late Night' will not be an Open Forum as it says in
          the conference banner. Since posting that schedual,  Brother
          Jeremy has told me he will be in to with Rickuland to do a
          conference on OS-9 Word Processing. If you have been
          interested in the project to port the classic Coco Max-10
          Word Processor, here is a good chance to get up to date on
          the latest scoop. Also, they will go into how text editing
          in OS-9 works, and perhaps the other stuff that is
          available.

            Also on the following week, January 16, 1995, the topic
          will be the anticipated, 'COUNTDOWN TO CHICAGO'. Members of
          the Glennside Color Computer Club will be on hand to give
          the lowdown on the upcoming Chicagofest, which takes place
          on April 29 and 30(I screwed up the conference banner. It is
          1995 obviously, and not '94). The Chicago Cocofest is one of
          the biggest events each year for the OS-9 and Coco
          communities. If you can attend please do so to help assure
          another one next year! Attend this conference for details
          how!

            Btw, for last night's conference, we did a preview of 1994
          and talked about what goals we should set to achieve in this
          coming year to further the cause of OS-9. It was a good
          conference to my surprise since I've not been posting
          reminders for the last few weeks, do to the hectic schedual
          on my end. The last two weeks of January, we will have Open
          Forums, and I am hoping to expand on this topic a little
          more and get more people together to discuss what they feel
          we should start doing more of in '95. OS9 User Group
          involvement is a definate must. Please bring your feelings
          and ideas to either of these 2 conferences, and/or post them
          here in forum. We should set some goals early and get the
          machine running for the coming year.

            >Chris<

-*-

91185 3-JAN 22:27  General Information
     RE: Install program (Re: Msg 91033)
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: TIMKIENTZLE (NR)

Thanks for the tips, Tim. Popen sounds pretty helpful. I will look into it
(after some R&R). Semester is over and I whipped!

Bests
---TedJaeger

-*-

91189 3-JAN 23:12  General Information
     RE: Install program (Re: Msg 91133)
     From: RICKULAND    To: TEDJAEGER (NR)

     Ted,

     For   OS9,  I've  found  it  usually  easiest  to provide  a
'semi-bootable'   floppy, or 'system image' this works on several
levels.
     The  floppy  user  can  do a backup from  disk  basic,  boot
somehow,  swap  disks,  and chx/chd. His /dd device will  be  /d0
anyway, so your floppy or an image runs fine in the one drive.
     To make a bootable, a simple script would allow you to pluck
a few vital utils from Master. User formatss and cobblers a disk,
then  dsave your floppy then runs your script which grabs  shell,
grfdrv,  etc  to  clean up. You can combine the  dsave  generated
script with your systmast plucker, and cut a few user typos.

     Hard  drive owners would cram your disk in a floppy, chd  to
it, and dsave /dx /dd ! shell. If the floppy is an exact image of
a  runnable  disk,  the hard drive becomes an exact  image  of  a
runnable   disk!    (plus  all that other crap the  user  already
did)  The  only point of contention is the user  directory  since
there are fairly rigid conventions for most of the dir tree.

     DD, as far as I know:

     junk  or temporary files (readmes, install scripts) place in
root  so they are instantly obvious and easily deleted. Don't add
_any_ perminant files to root!

     dd/CMDS            all execs
     dd/CMDS/ICONS      (cc3 only)

     dd/SYS             system files- termcaps, etc
     dd/SYS/MINE        apps with many SYS files grab a dir

     dd/DOCS            da manual

     dd/DEFS         \
                       > those who write
     dd/LIB          /

     dd/SOURCES         often subdivded by language then program-
                         /dd/sources/b09/thisthing/code.b09

     dd/USR/*           where the AIFs play. Undefined but
                         typical branches- USR/TCOM,  USR/GAMES,
                         etc...

     dd/USR/*/other     nice  apps  hide weird  files  _beyond_
                         where the user sees the datafiles.

     Applications  have been known to grab extra directories from
root.  This  makes sense on floppies, where /dd/MINE is  all  the
housekeeping  needed. But this is horribly ugly after a few dozen
apps are installed on ahard drive, and positively stops multivue.
Even  if  the  user doesn't use a 'usr' directory, he can  use  a
convienient  dsave  handle  for custom installs. It does  look  a
little weird having an empty dir level on a floppy, thou.

                              -ricku

                  Rick Ulland                 CoNect
         rickuland@delphi.com           449 South 90th St.
"Operating System Nine"- 268m           Milwaukee WI 53214

-*-

91192 3-JAN 23:26  General Information
     RE: Install program (Re: Msg 91189)
     From: WA2EGP       To: RICKULAND

Gee...it would be nice to expand on this and upload it as a text file for the
newcomers who may want to see how they might set up their hard drive.  (I
could use it too - grin)

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91186 3-JAN 23:04  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91175)
     From: MMCCLELLAND  To: 01GEN40 (NR)

  I agree. I am building a 486DX2-80 machine right now, simply because I need
more power and can't afford to get into OSK yet. If OS-9000 was cheaper, I
mightbe interested, but I doubt if I can afford it. I am going to try to run
OS9-
6809 on the CoCo-3 Emulator, but I seriously doubt if it will support serial
I/O, hard disk access, or even have the ability to read/write OS-9 floppies.
I feel that if OS9-6809 is to live on, it must be through a method like this.
If everybody pitched in and worked on drivers which support PC hardware, we
could make the IBM-compatible the most desirable machine to run it on. I would
really like to buy an MM/1 because OSK is definitely a large step ahead of
Level-2. Unfortunately it is out of my price range, though, and I have specific
applications which I need an IBM for. Maybe an "MM/2" will emerge someday,
which will allow the use of standard PC hardware like IDE drives and standard
SVGA
monitors. Just wishful thinking...

-=Mark=-

-*-

91203 4-JAN 01:36  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91175)
     From: MITHELEN     To: 01GEN40 (NR)

I don't know... I peiced together a 486 box in the last two days... and it
ran me over 1700$, and that didn't include the monitor/keyboard/mouse.
And it appeard that the Floppy controller on the do everything multi-io card
is bad, or doesn't get along with the motherboard. I'll mostly be using it
to run Linux though, which is close enough to OS-9 to make the system
"friendly" to my tastes... MAybe someday I'll pick up OS-9000 and G-Windows
for it... That will have to wait for a bit though...

-*-

91213 4-JAN 03:25  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91186)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: MMCCLELLAND


 > to try to run OS9-
 > 6809 on the CoCo-3 Emulator, but I seriously doubt if it will support

     Don't you mean the CoCo-2 emulator? I don't think there is a CoCo3
emulator. Is there? I have used the CoCo2 emulator and not only is does
look and feel exactly like a CoCo2, the docs say that you can have serial
ports with it.


       Dave



-*-

91219 4-JAN 18:24  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91213)
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: DIGIGRADE

I saw some reference to a Coco3 emulator for PC's in some messages on the
STG net. <Phil>

-*-

91224 4-JAN 21:46  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91213)
     From: MMCCLELLAND  To: DIGIGRADE

   Yes, there is a CoCo-3 emulator. Look in the documentation on the CoCo
Emulator v.1.4, which is in the CoCo SIG. Like the CoCo-2 Emulator, the CoCo-
3 Emulator emulates all of the features of a real CoCo-3 with 4 floppies.
However, I am not sure if it works too well with Level-2. I have tried running
Level-1 on the CoCo-2 emulator; it didn't want to boot. TTYL,

-=Mark=-
PS: I think there is a short FAQ on the CoCo-3 emulator; I will try to find it
for you.

-*-

91228 4-JAN 23:13  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91175)
     From: GREGL        To: 01GEN40 (NR)

There's the rub. Microware isn't -- and doesn't want to be -- competitive
with Microsoft. Microware chases the embedded systems market mostly whereas
Microsoft is after the commercial and home computer user.

        -- Greg

-*-

91230 5-JAN 01:14  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91203)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: MITHELEN

for "THAT" price one could get a full blown "Multimedia" system
with everything!<G> my wifes Compac cost 1560....486SX-2-66...8 meg memory
 CD-ROM x2......SB card 16 bit.....and came with software!
Mine cost around the same!

 I replaced the board to a VL buss.....486DX-2-66.....$95.00 for the board!
 CPU ran $280........VL buss EIDE card...ran $55.0 ..though I,ve seen it for
  $45.00....VL buss Video card ...Curris Logic  cost $82.00..<and it flys>
memory ran $350.00  8 meg!..hard drives now are unreal!!!!! 229 for a 460meg!
 I paid that for a 130 meg last year! less than $300 for a 560meg........
keyboard cost $40.00 .......mouse cost $15.00........
a case costs $75.00 with power supply.....a 1.44 meg drive goes for $35.00 /39
<surplus stores around here are cheap><Grin>.and most of this stuff aint surplus

 stuff! tis NEW!
Dennis

-*-

91231 5-JAN 01:16  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91213)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: DIGIGRADE

WHERE! have you been???? <grin> It was released last month or so!
Yes my son! there is one!<g>
Dennis

-*-

91232 5-JAN 01:20  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91231)
     From: MITHELEN     To: COCOKIWI

Well.. I DID get a full blown setup! And I only paid 450$ for 16 Meg of RAM...
If you want more details, I'll be happy to tell ya in E-Mail...
--
Paul

-*-

91233 5-JAN 01:23  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91230)
     From: MMCCLELLAND  To: COCOKIWI

Wow, people these days are really getting bad deals on cases! Mine cost $30,
has a 230 Watt PS, 2-5/send JEVESTAL Hi! I thought your account was suspended!?
slots, 2-3.25 slots, 2-HD slots, and all indicators switches, and hardware!
These are new products, not surplus. I got it from Fry's electronics here in Los

Angeles, unfortunately, though, they don't do mail order. They have an
incredible selection and great prices
-=Mark=-

-*-

91237 5-JAN 05:45  General Information
     RE: ge (Re: Msg 91224)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: MMCCLELLAND


 > PS: I think there is a short FAQ on the CoCo-3 emulator; I will try to
 > find it for you.

     Thanks, I'd really like that.


       Dave



-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91187 3-JAN 23:05  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91162)
     From: WA2EGP       To: DSRTFOX (NR)

I have a power supply for an external tape drive which will run on just one
floppy drive.  It is an itty-bitty one so it is
a bit specialized.  But it IS a switching supply.  The old TI supplies that
RS sold years ago would work also.  They were small enough that a floppy was
enough load.  Too bad no actual PC's were that low powered (Grin).

-*-

91204 4-JAN 01:53  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91151)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING



     Do you (or anyone else) know where I can find a 3 and a half inch drive
for my CoCo3 and OS9?


     Thanks

     Dave


 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact disks, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

91205 4-JAN 01:53  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91162)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DSRTFOX (NR)


     Thanks for info, I'll keep it on hand.

     I just remembered that I wanted to go with a couple of 3 1/2 drives. I
am going to be putting my Color Computer 3 in an office. I want to have the
OS9 3 1/2 format so I can pop the disk into my MM/1 and print out anything
they typed up. Eather that or buy them (my Mother's non for profit org.) an
XT with 720K 5 1/4 floppies. It would get pretty scary from there. :)
Secondly, I like to exploit the Color Computer 3's usefulness whenever I
can.


      Dave

 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact disks, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

91226 4-JAN 22:21  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91205)
     From: HERMANR      To: DIGIGRADE

 Dave I have some extra used disk drive cases will sell for 10.00 each.
might find 3 1/2 drives in computer shopper from some referbishers at
real good price. I am located in Memphis, TN.

-*-

91234 5-JAN 01:24  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91226)
     From: MITHELEN     To: DIGIGRADE

You can get new 3.5" 1.44 meg drives at Computer City for $39.56. Not a
bad walk in the store price...
-
Paul

-*-

91239 5-JAN 05:45  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91234)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: MITHELEN

 > You can get new 3.5" 1.44 meg drives at Computer City for $39.56. Not a
 > bad walk in the store price...

     What else do I need? I know I at least need a custom cable. I need a
full 3.5" setup for the Color Computer 3 and OS9 Level II. I know nothing! :)
Well, you know what I mean.


      Dave

 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact disks, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

91241 5-JAN 09:16  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91239)
     From: MITHELEN     To: DIGIGRADE

If you have an existing drive cable, all you need to do is crimp
on a 34 pin header connector which you should be able to get at Radio Shack
or any electronics stor for under 2$.

-*-

91247 5-JAN 23:11  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91204)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > Do you (or anyone else) know where I can find a 3 and a half inch
 > drive for my CoCo3 and OS9?

I assume new is OK?  I do some buying from MidWest Micro, 6910 U.S Rt.36
East, Fletcher, OH, 45326  PH 800-552-8080.  The best thing is to go
ahead ahd get 1.44 Meggers, since new 720's, if available, are as
high as 1.44's.  All you have to do is use DD disks and noto HD's
and the disk will work great.

Really, you might do well to browse through Computer Shopper for the
closest/cheapest, but I'll give you MidWest's #'s in case you want
to order from them:

       Mitsumi    004372   $35
       Teac       002694   $38
       Frame kit for 5.25 bay   003581 $4.00  (if you need it)

They didn't list a 720, and they might have other brands available;
also, prices may be a little different


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91248 5-JAN 23:13  General Information
     RE: New 360K drives!! (Re: Msg 91239)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > > You can get new 3.5" 1.44 meg drives at Computer City for $39.56.

 > What else do I need? I know I at least need a custom cable. I need a
 > full 3.5" setup for the Color Computer 3 and OS9 Level II.

Actually, you might be able to just crimp one of the connectors onto
your existing cable.  The only gotcha you need to watch for is that
all the 3.5's I've fooled with (well, only 2) have had pin 1 on the
opposite side from that of the 5.25's.  You might have to allow for
twisting the cable to get pin 1 over on the other side -- maybe have
the 3.5 connector facing the opposite way from the 5.25's.  Let's see,
does the power connector take the same Plug as the 5.25?  I think so,
better check.  BTW.. here's my dmode for the 720-K setting*


    nam=D1 mgr=RBF ddr=CC3Disk hpn=07
    hpa=FF40 drv=01 stp=03 typ=20
    dns=03 cyl=0050 sid=02 vfy=00
    sct=0012 t0s=0012 ilv=02 sas=08

The only difference is dns & cyl.  Note I have found that an ilv
of 2 works on my system with both the 3.5 and 5.25, and it is just
a little faster that way.

If you have to make up your own cable, you will need, of course,
a length of 34-wire flat ribbon cable.  all your connectors will
be 34-pin crimp-on.  You need a card-edge connector for the controller
end, a card-edge connector for each 5.25, and an IDS socket for
each 3.5. (Better get at least one spare of each, they're cheap,
in case you lunch one).  All this can be had at Radio Shack.  They
also make an IDC Connector crimper, it's around $15, and makes it
a little easier to squeeze the connectors onto the cable.  Also,
in case you are not familiar with this stuff, the connectors will
have a little arrow or mark "indexing" your pin 1, and also, the
cable will have the wire on one side a different color. This is
supposed to be line 1.  Keep all this straight and it will make
it easier to hook it up.


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91188 3-JAN 23:10  OSK Applications
     RE: DMODE SETTINGS (Re: Msg 91150)
     From: WA2EGP       To: VAXELF

dcheck is in my cmds dir on my MM/1 so you probably have it on your disks.

-*-

91190 3-JAN 23:16  OSK Applications
     RE: DMODE SETTINGS (Re: Msg 91177)
     From: WA2EGP       To: VAXELF

Hopefully I'm sending this to the right person.  I know format -nvnp -v=test
but(slash)dx does give info on hard drives and seems to give some info on
floppies
on my MM/1.  Maybe something like this could be tried?

-*-

91198 4-JAN 00:50  OSK Applications
     RE: DMODE SETTINGS (Re: Msg 91178)
     From: DBREEDING    To: VAXELF


 > Thanks for the C code. I saved you message files (including the one
 > after this one), but have not had the time to look it over or see if I can
 > get it to work on my MM/1.
 > just as soon as I can work on it, i'll let you know how it works out.

Well, if I weren't so lazy, I could try it on mine..  I'd actually forgotten
about it.  I don't know if it will work for very much or not, it was just
a hurried thing, and you might have to doctor it up some..



                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91222 4-JAN 20:38  OSK Applications
     RE: DMODE SETTINGS (Re: Msg 91188)
     From: VAXELF       To: WA2EGP

  I found it on the distrubtion disks. Thanks

John D.

-*-

91223 4-JAN 20:40  OSK Applications
     RE: DMODE SETTINGS (Re: Msg 91190)
     From: VAXELF       To: WA2EGP

  I'll give that a try, Interesting, never knew format had all those flags.

John D.

-*-

91256 5-JAN 23:49  OSK Applications
     RE: DMODE SETTINGS (Re: Msg 91223)
     From: WA2EGP       To: VAXELF (NR)

Basically, they were to prevent you from actually formatting the drive but
allow you to get the settings to use when you mess with dmode so the number of
sectors on the drive and descriptor matched (cylinders and sides don't have to
match it seems).  I tried it on a formatted floppy and it seemed to work.  The
-nvnp inhibited the physical format and verify.  You just read the stuff on
the SCSI (lsn 0 I believe) device which is put on by the manufactorer.  Now I
hope this might tell about the floppy....I could be wrong because this might
just tell about the descriptor, not the media.  Of course if the disk is too
far off, then you couldn't read it at all.  Worth a shot.

-*-

91259 6-JAN 00:41  OSK Applications
     RE: DMODE SETTINGS (Re: Msg 91177)
     From: AJMLFCO      To: VAXELF (NR)

I would be very interested in Ribbs_OSK.  I used to run Ribbs
on my CoCo-III.  I still have the extra phone line and now
have a 28.8 modem. Will in run on most any OSK system (Kix\30?)

Allen

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91191 3-JAN 23:21  General Information
     RE: More Pentium Bashing (Re: Msg 91159)
     From: WA2EGP       To: PAGAN

At least the computer world has a sense of humor (except for Intel.....or
maybe they do.....)

-*-

91206 4-JAN 01:53  General Information
     RE: More Pentium Bashing (Re: Msg 91159)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: PAGAN


 > Subject: If HAL were Pentium Based [humor]

 > Think of all the good times we've had, Dave.  Why, if you take all
 > of the laughs we've had, multiply that by the times I've made you
 > smile, and divide the results by.... besides, there are so many
 > reasons why you shouldn't disconnect me

    (Dave (not that Dave, this one) picks himself off the ground and back
onto his chair)

    And to think for two years I actually had my MM/1 boot up to:
"Good evening Dave, everything's running smoothly." HAL is one of my
favorite computers. 1-HAL 2-MAC 3-MM/1


      Thanks for posting it!!!


        Dave (not Bowman)

 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact disks, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91193 4-JAN 00:19  Programmers Den
     Shanghai OS-9
     From: EARTHER      To: ALL

     I'm working on a new version of Shanghai for OS-9 Level II.  I need
 some ideas for improvement from those of you that have played the
 game.  One thing that I changed so far was the double-clicking on
 the second tile chosen.  Only a single click is required on both
 tiles now to remove them.  I noticed that the OS/2 Warp version of
 Shanghai didn't use a double-click, so I thought mine shouldn't
 either.  I can now remove tiles quicker than before (it's slow
 enough having to refresh the screen as it is!).  Anyway... let
 me know what ideas you have for the new release, thanks!

 Shawn Driscoll

 earther@delphi.com

-*-

91194 4-JAN 00:21  General Information
     RE: Under the wire.... (Re: Msg 91180)
     From: BRIANOHAGAN  To: MRUPGRADE

What timing! Will be watching for the UPGRADE phone fest announcement. TTYL.

Brian



-*-

91196 4-JAN 00:34  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91171)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: DBREEDING

 > BTW.. I do get a kick out of exchanging
 > messages with PC users on our local BBS..  They really go into detail
 > explaining to me about multitasking under windows.. like WE need to be
 > told..<G> I just replied to one of these messages last night.. told him
 > yeah, I know about multitasking.. been doing it for 12 or 15 years now..

The funniest thing I've seen lately is the IBM OS/2 commercials.
They have secretaries and business people talking about what they do
while they wait for their document to print, since apparently the
systems they had been using didn't multitask while printing.  When they
show OS/2's ability to work on something else while their documents are
printing, you should see their little faces light up, and the
expressions of surprise and amazement.  Of course, as you said, we've
been doing it for a decade and a half...

 > Mostly, though, my
 > network is the one I saw in a newspaper yesterday.. the "Sneaker Net",
 > where you run back and forth between systems with a floppy... I liked
 > that term. <G>.

Heh... that's a great term!  I have one of those between my Mac and MM/1
using a PC-formatted floppy disk.

  -- Joel.


-*-

91197 4-JAN 00:49  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91181)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DSRTFOX (NR)

 > David, a multi-media PC system will certainly be cheaper, but more
 > headaches. Trust me!

I've heard this before, so have no doubts.

 > msgs about there not being enough memory in my 8MB 486DX50!! The msgs are
 > for "base" memory of 640K, of course, and usually just with games.

Yeah.  This is another thing the PC hackers seem to be always griping
about.  Wonder.. is OS/2 any better?

Of this 640K barrier might be something similar to what we were about to
get into on the CoCo.  If we go much further in memory expansion, I think
we would be getting into the problem of running out of System Memory.  I
know my map was beginning to get pretty full.  I never ran out of Sys Mem
except for just a few times.

 > and sets up memory accordingly. Apparently, nothing is reentrant! It sets
 > up four virtual machines in memeory, I believe, so eats LOTS of RAM. If
 > you only have four megs, it sets up virtual memory and swap files, which
 > slows it way down. If you have 8MB or more, preferably 12MB, it works fine
 > though!!

Seems like everything wants more memory these days..  I have had several
people looking at getting PC's.  I've been strongly recommending that they
go with at least 8 meg.

I've found that most people get a computer thinking they will never get
any deeper involved.  I have a brother who wanted a PC.  I kept trying to
tell him to look at expansion, but he knew.. "this" is all I'll ever
want to do..  He wound up getting a Packard Bell, and now, after a couple
or 3 months, is beginning to want to add cards, and he may find that it
won't be so easy.

For my part, I don't know what I'll do.. I am certainly interested in the
Mac, although I don't really need anything else.  It's just that it would
be nice to get some of the "ready-to-run" stuff.


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91209 4-JAN 01:54  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91152)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING


 > I thought Frank was shipping GW.  Didn't HAWKSOFT get a copy for his
 > machine? Or is Delmar supplying it?  Anyway, I do agree with you about

     I don't think so. What are you running GW on now?

 > I can't comment on K-Windows because I have never
 > seen it in action (but if I make it back to a 'Fest, I will).  To be

     Might I interest you in a back issue or two of the Compiler Video
Magazine? $10 each for over an hour of MM/1 and Color Computer FESTivites!

 > For your personal use?  Which system.  We may get caned for discussing
 > this here <G>, but the reason I ask is that I have had some interest in
 > the Mac as a second (well third counting the coco) but have so far been a
 > little chicken to make the jump.

     I'm getting my Mac advice from JOELHEGBERG. For personal use mostly but
it will defentaly help me develop graphics for the MM/1. I plan to do DTP
out of my house. I know one person who is using the Mac to make an action
game for the MM/1. <g> And my offer still stands to Digital Frontier Prod.
to update the graphics for GR2000. I think there is an infomercial for the
Mac floating around the airwaves late at night, still trying to catch it.


      Dave


 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact disks, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

91210 4-JAN 01:54  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91152)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING


   Oh, by the way. I have only heard of it but there is a Performa that
does realtime video capturing right out of the box. That looks like the
one I want. I still have alot of thinking to do.


     Dave

-*-

91211 4-JAN 01:54  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91163)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DSRTFOX (NR)


     Nope, can't hack a Mac. There is a way to edit resource files though,
you have to buy a BASIC compiler.


-*-

91214 4-JAN 03:25  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91171)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING


 > Mac, I asked the salesman about the multitasking.  He had to admit that
 > it was not that powerful.  BTW.. I do get a kick out of exchanging
 > messages with PC users on our local BBS..  They really go into detail
 > explaining to me about multitasking under windows.. like WE need to be
 > told..<G> I just replied to one of these messages last night.. told him
 > yeah, I know about multitasking.. been doing it for 12 or 15 years now..

     Yeah, it's like the OS2 Warp (allmost said OS9 there <g>) commercials.
   "Wow, your'e doing this all at once?" Wake up people! :)

 > My big problem is.. if I get another system, where will I put it?  I have
 > my OSK machine on a desk in the living room.. and sitting on a piano
 > stool and another table is my coco.  I keep it close in case I want to

   I don't have enough room to hook up my CoCo anymore. I need all my desk
space for my MM/1, manuals, CD-ROM drive, printer, modem. I just don't
have the space captian! :)

 > connect them together and do some serial xfers..  Mostly, though, my
 > network is the one I saw in a newspaper yesterday.. the "Sneaker Net",
 > where you run back and forth between systems with a floppy... I liked
 > that term. <G>.

   Hehe

        Dave


   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
   |         "A rolling stone....  ....can give a heckofa bruise."         |
   |    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Posted Via InfoXpress -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-    |
   -------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*-

91215 4-JAN 03:25  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91170)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING

 > > David, I'm using Macs (Classics, SE/30s, and IIci s ) at my print shop.
 >
 > > Getting around the windowinf system is
 > > fairly easy though. Hardware is virtually plug-n-play. Getting into the
 > OS > itself and tinkering is next to impossible.... but the near-perfect
 > "user" > box!!
 >
 > Yes, I understand that the Mac is the most user-friendly system going,
 > and it has also been my conception that you just _DON'T_ "get into" the
 > system. I don't suppose I even need another system, but I would still like
 > to have something to play around with all the neat multimedia stuff and
 > the like.  Actually, I guess for a second system, it would probably be
 > better to go with a PC, but I still like to be "different" <G>.

    I think working with a Macintosh can actually bring down stress levels.
<g>
    I have allways wanted one, now I have the bucks, and I shall have one.
Praise The Lord!!! :)


      Dave

   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
   |         "A rolling stone....  ....can give a heckofa bruise."         |
   |    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Posted Via InfoXpress -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-    |
   -------------------------------------------------------------------------

-*-

91216 4-JAN 03:25  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91211)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DIGIGRADE

 > Nope, can't hack a Mac. There is a way to edit resource files though,
 > you have to buy a BASIC compiler.
 >

     Nope, you don't, resource editor is PD.


      Dave


-*-

91227 4-JAN 23:11  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91171)
     From: GREGL        To: DBREEDING

Windows and multitasking can be cute, to say the least. One way to look at
the difference between true multitasking and cooperative multitasking is as
follows:

True Multitasking: 100 times per second (assuming this is the clock interval)
the operating system receives a hardware interrupt from the clock and
compares the priority of the current task with other tasks to determine whether
it should switch tasks.

Cooperative Multitasking: 18.2 times per second the windowing environment
receives a clock tick. It then compares process priorities, determines
whether a proper message has been passed, and flips a coin. Heads the current
task keeps running. Tails the current task keeps running. Only in the rare
event that the coin lands on its side does it switch tasks -- and then only
if it feels like it. :-)

        -- Greg (with tongue firmly in cheek)

-*-

91236 5-JAN 02:03  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91181)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: DSRTFOX (NR)

I use the multimode DOS 6 Autoexec/config format..nice with that I can
setup different config formats THAT work!fine......I,m getting to be an
EXpert<g>....Dont use MemMinder with it....
it can only work with a single file...I found out HOW to setup the system
without it.....using HIMEMORY   ........dump a list of Mem /c /p print it!
then type MEM /f   .....and look at the file!   it will tell you what is in
each zone ......1   32k  ..etc
                2   14k ....
                3   6k   ......

 You look at the list...say it was CTSB16    26,912    <26k>


 and you want to load it high!    do this: in Config...

   DEVICEHIGH /L:1,26912  =C:\sb16\ctsb16.sys
if you use the Cache that came with DOS    ...don,t... use PC-Kwik instead!
 VERY nice program,well worth the money!

 the menu program that comes with Dos-6 is very nice and easy to use!
  What stinks, is they did not make MemMinder to work with it...it scrambles
 the other files with REM statements.....and moves things like EMM386 back
 to the head of the list.....like I setup a file to load without EMM....
  it rems the one in the file and RE prints it at the top!
 one way you could get around it... is to make different versions of CONFIG
and Autoexec..one at a time....MemMind em! then print it out! then change it
to the NEXT version and do that one,and so on! once done you then write the
NEW combined version!OK!
and get a copy of MAGIC......Icon Directory selector! Nice for games etc!
you select the icon with mouse,press button! it runs! setting up is easy!
  select page!   select program,select ICON....write NAME of program.<enter>
 and you can MAKE your OWN ICONS.......shareware!

THAT! should get you going!<grin> I should know!<shee> I just installed
 WING Commander III .......<nice> BARE bone setup.......the fun I had was
with the sound setup!  NO! sound...Music!but NO sound!and it would freeze up!
or run erradicly! I fixed it! runs great now! EXcept for the Joystick port!
<ARGGG> I have VL buss Extended IDE ...Serial<high speed> Par port
<bidirectional>
 and a GAME port......SIMPLE..one port device on a VL-buss board cannot use my
  FLIGHT STICK on it!......
 Works on my SB  AWE32 card....BUT it don,t with WC3....<speed>...so got
a HIGH speed I/O card...TWO serial /par ports...and Dual<single plug> GAME
 port.....is the GAME port high speed????   NO!...and you CANNOT turn the #@#$%
 off!!!!! you HAVE to remove it to use another game port!
 you would think that with the HIGHER speed of the cards and computer the game
 port WOULD have been upgraded ......no way!!!! weird! wait till MORE of this
kind of game come out and their joystick won,t work!<g> AFTER spending $xx.00
on the XYZ super duper joystick!...mine works on ALL the other games .....
They tell you if you have a problem,you WILL have to get a HIGH speed port!ARGg

Dennis

-*-

91240 5-JAN 05:46  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91236)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: COCOKIWI

 > I use the multimode DOS 6 Autoexec/config format..nice with that I can
 > setup different config formats THAT work!fine......I,m getting to be an
 > EXpert<g>....Dont use MemMinder with it....
 > it can only work with a single file...I found out HOW to setup the system

...

 > change it to the NEXT version and do that one,and so on! once done you
 > then write the NEW combined version!OK!

...

 > WING Commander III .......<nice> BARE bone setup.......the fun I had was
 > with the sound setup!  NO! sound...Music!but NO sound!and it would freeze
 > up! or run erradicly! I fixed it! runs great now! EXcept for the Joystick

...

 > GAME port.....is the GAME port high speed????   NO!...and you CANNOT turn
 > the #@#$%
 > off!!!!! you HAVE to remove it to use another game port!

     Sounds like a Mess, if you get my meaning. :)


        Dave


-*-

91243 5-JAN 20:03  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91196)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JOELHEGBERG

 > The funniest thing I've seen lately is the IBM OS/2 commercials.

 > show OS/2's ability to work on something else while their documents are
 > printing, you should see their little faces light up, and the
 > expressions of surprise and amazement.  Of course, as you said, we've
 > been doing it for a decade and a half...

Glad they were able to come up with something "new"..  <G>
I had a friend who was in the business of assembling and selling clones.
I remember when about 10 years ago or whatever, when Dos (or was it
Windows) got the ability to just HOLD (not run, just hold) 2 programs
in memory at once, he thought he had discovered another planet or something.

 > > Mostly, though, my
 > > network is the one I saw in a newspaper yesterday.. the "Sneaker Net",
 > > where you run back and forth between systems with a floppy... I liked
 > > that term. <G>.
 >
 > Heh... that's a great term!  I have one of those between my Mac and MM/1
 > using a PC-formatted floppy disk.

I wonder just how many of us do use "that" network <G>


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91246 5-JAN 23:05  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91197)
     From: ISC          To: DBREEDING

>  > David, a multi-media PC system will certainly be cheaper, but more
>  > headaches. Trust me!
>
> I've heard this before, so have no doubts.
>
>  > msgs about there not being enough memory in my 8MB 486DX50!! The msgs are
>  > for "base" memory of 640K, of course, and usually just with games.
>
> Yeah.  This is another thing the PC hackers seem to be always griping
> about.  Wonder.. is OS/2 any better?
>
> Of this 640K barrier might be something similar to what we were about to
> get into on the CoCo.  If we go much further in memory expansion, I think
> we would be getting into the problem of running out of System Memory.  I
> know my map was beginning to get pretty full.  I never ran out of Sys Mem
> except for just a few times.
>
>  > and sets up memory accordingly. Apparently, nothing is reentrant! It sets
>  > up four virtual machines in memeory, I believe, so eats LOTS of RAM. If
>  > you only have four megs, it sets up virtual memory and swap files, which
>  > slows it way down. If you have 8MB or more, preferably 12MB, it works fine
>  > though!!
>
> Seems like everything wants more memory these days..  I have had several
> people looking at getting PC's.  I've been strongly recommending that they
> go with at least 8 meg.
>
> I've found that most people get a computer thinking they will never get
> any deeper involved.  I have a brother who wanted a PC.  I kept trying to
> tell him to look at expansion, but he knew.. "this" is all I'll ever
> want to do..  He wound up getting a Packard Bell, and now, after a couple
> or 3 months, is beginning to want to add cards, and he may find that it
> won't be so easy.
>
>.
>
>                    -- David Breeding --
>                  CompuServe :  72330,2051
>                      Delphi :  DBREEDING
>
>          ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
>                        ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^
>
To enter the discussion, 16 MEGS of memory is what I would recommend to anyone
wishing to buy a PC system and use it EXTENSIVELY.  If one wants to do only
word processing and the occasional spreadsheet, 8 megs is probably sufficient.
 The graphical overhead of Windoze programs demands lots of memory and special
busses to move the data.  As quoted above, nothing is re-entrant so OS2
creates virtual machines to multitask DOS programs. This eats memory fast.
Memory management in DOS has never been adequate from the beginning.  IBM
never became interested in speed until Compaq started kicking their butts with
speedier designs.  All of these deficiencies, ironically, are what fed
developers of support hardware and software so that the PC eventually became
the platform of choice.  Each deficiency spawned new adapter card makers and
software programs to "fix" the problems.  The array of PC memory management
software available illustrates the point.  As each problem fix becomes
popular, Microsoft adds the feature to DOS.  DOS 6.22 now includes Doublespace
to compress files, Emm386 to manage memory, Memmaker to rearrange storage when
out of memory programs burp, etc., etc., etc.

My advice to anyone considering a PC system is to buy it from one of the major
Direct channel marketers like Gateway, Zeos or Dell and load it with all of
the hardware and software you think you will ever need at purchase time.
Since direct marketers deal in volume and compete intensely, you will realize
discounts on hardware and software which you will not be able to match at a
retail store.  In addition, the systems are guaranteed, loaded with software
and fully configured when you receive them.  Believe me, the hassles of buying
that "bargain" at Sears and then adding peripherals, configuring the BIOS,
resolving IRQ conflicts and finding that you have 300MB of hard disk used in
only 2 weeks is more than mildly annoying!  Most Windoze programs take about 2
MB of disk space, so I would recommend at least a 500 MB drive, but,
preferably, 700 MB.  That means tape backup for safety and archiving and on
and on and on and on and on...  What a racket, eh?  A tribute to American
ingenuity.

So, you ask.  Why don't more people use OS9?  Heh, heh, heh...because it WORKS
that's why!

Bill

-*-

91249 5-JAN 23:14  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91209)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > > I thought Frank was shipping GW.  Didn't HAWKSOFT get a copy for his
 > > machine? Or is Delmar supplying it?  Anyway, I do agree with you about
 >
 > I don't think so. What are you running GW on now?

Maybe they quit, but HAWKSOFT *DOES* have a copy on his.  I'm running a
Delmar System 5.

 > > I can't comment on K-Windows because I have never
 > > seen it in action (but if I make it back to a 'Fest, I will).  To be
 >
 > Might I interest you in a back issue or two of the Compiler Video
 > Magazine? $10 each for over an hour of MM/1 and Color Computer
 > FESTivites!

Yeah, I'd be interested..   Details on ordering?  Come to think of it,
seems I remember saving your announcement of CVM, but kinda pushed it
on the back burner.  Can you refresh my memory?

 > I'm getting my Mac advice from JOELHEGBERG. For personal use mostly
 > but it will defentaly help me develop graphics for the MM/1.

I've had something of a hankering for a Mac for some time, just was
a little shaky about getting one.  My main reason for either a Mac or
PC would be so I could be "mainstream" on some of the stuff so I could
share stuff.  I don't know that many people with Macs close to me, there
are some, of course, but I feared I might still not have the "compatibility"
that I desired.


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91250 5-JAN 23:15  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91210)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > Oh, by the way. I have only heard of it but there is a Performa that
 > does realtime video capturing right out of the box. That looks like the
 > one I want. I still have alot of thinking to do.

Are you still in the process of buying or do you already have one?  (I'm
in "read new" mode in ix right now and can't check back).

Anyway, there seem to be more decisions to make with the Mac that with
the PC, doesn't there?  And now we have PowerPC, and the 6100 doesn't
seem that expensive, either.


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91251 5-JAN 23:16  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91214)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > > My big problem is.. if I get another system, where will I put it?  I
 > have > my OSK machine on a desk in the living room.. and sitting on a
 > piano > stool and another table is my coco.  I keep it close in case I
 > want to
 > I don't have enough room to hook up my CoCo anymore. I need all my
 > desk space for my MM/1, manuals, CD-ROM drive, printer, modem. I just
 > don't have the space captian! :)

Seems like these things keep overflowing their space <G>

 > > connect them together and do some serial xfers..  Mostly, though, my
 > > network is the one I saw in a newspaper yesterday.. the "Sneaker Net",
 > > where you run back and forth between systems with a floppy... I liked
 > > that term. <G>.
 >
 > Hehe

The sound of that makes me think *YOU'VE* been there too <G>


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91252 5-JAN 23:17  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91227)
     From: DBREEDING    To: GREGL (NR)

 > Windows and multitasking can be cute, to say the least.

 > Cooperative Multitasking: 18.2 times per second the windowing environment

 >  Heads the
 > current task keeps running. Tails the current task keeps running. Only in
 > the rare event that the coin lands on its side does it switch tasks -- and
 > then only if it feels like it. :-)

Har! Har! Har!  I'm really glad you explained that so eloquently..
 hehehe..



                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91255 5-JAN 23:34  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91246)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: ISC (NR)

and uses LESS memory!....<grin>....but windows has a 64k limit also! that
causes problems...it has been fixed in win...95........ ??????? shades of the
coco....<arg>.....Dennis

-*-

91257 5-JAN 23:55  Applications (6809)
     RE: 8-bit chips (Re: Msg 91243)
     From: WA2EGP       To: DBREEDING (NR)

I've done sneaker net......even with a hard drive!

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91199 4-JAN 00:57  Programmers Den
     RE: _gs_rdy() Question (Re: Msg 91138)
     From: BUDDCAR      To: DBREEDING

Just to put another oar in.  While I have great sympathy for the arguments
put forward for hiding the source (control and mor control for the most part)
I would like to point out that we are running in a pretty small world here
l - my) existance.  Source can be the
solution to the problem.  Frequently? I find a program which doesn't run on my
TC70 simply because it used a different version of the CIO or MATH.  Trivial if
I can recompile.  Impossible if I cannot.  The GWindows Black Jack example
doesn't run - if I had source it would quickly be up and running even without
any modifications.

We have too many different specialized machines to cope with to allow ourselves
the luxury of locking in our customers.

Opinion - opinion - opinion.

 Bob

-*-

91217 4-JAN 05:03  Programmers Den
     RE: _gs_rdy() Question (Re: Msg 91199)
     From: PAGAN        To: BUDDCAR (NR)

 Bob,

 >The GWindows Black Jack example doesn't run - if I had source it would
 >quickly be up and running even without any modifications.

 Are you talking about the Blackack I wrote for G-Windows?   If so there is
 an E-mail and snail mail addresses in the docs and the readme where I can be
 reached if there is a problem.  RTFM.

 Even if you had the source you might not be able to get the program running
 anyway.  You would need wmlib.l from the devpack and, if there's a problem
 with 'math', you may need the 'no math traps' (_nmt) version of the gadget
 modules.  I don't include those last with the package but they should be
 available from your G-Windows vendor.

 This will be less of a problem with my software in the future becasue I'm
 switching to Ultra-C exclusively.  Every package will include the Microware
 support modules.  CyberWar, which I've posted but hasn't been made visible
 yet, includes these modules.  Sometime this month I will be releasing a new
 version of Blackjack which has been ported to Ultra-C and compiled for both
 OSK and OS9/x86.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

91218 4-JAN 06:40  Programmers Den
     RE: _gs_rdy() Question (Re: Msg 91199)
     From: EDELMAR      To: BUDDCAR (NR)

 Bob,

 > ... Frequently? I find a program which doesn't run on my TC70 simply
 > because it used a different version of the CIO or MATH.  ...  The GWindows
 > Black Jack example doesn't run - if I had source it would quickly be up
 > and running even without any modifications.

 I believe PAGAN wrote Black Jack using Ultra C.  The CIO and MATH modules
 are replaced with the appropriate CSL and FPU modules.  To the best of my
 knowledge, these modules require version 2.4 or later of OSK to function
 properly.

 One of the reasons PAGAN used Ultra C was to ease porting to OS9000/386.
 I did the port to OS9000/386 for Stephen and it was a trivial task under
 Ultra C.

 > We have too many different specialized machines to cope with to allow
 > ourselves the luxury of locking in our customers.

 The approach PAGAN used is hardware independent.  But it does require
 current versions of OS9/68000 or OS9000/386.  I don't think it requires
 the latest version of G-WINDOWS but I may be wrong.

 As to source code for Black Jack, I believe Stephen has done some things
 he believes are unique and proprietary to him hence his reluctance to
 distribute source.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

-*-

91253 5-JAN 23:18  Programmers Den
     RE: _gs_rdy() Question (Re: Msg 91217)
     From: DBREEDING    To: PAGAN

 > I'm switching to Ultra-C exclusively.  Every package will include the
 > Microware support modules.
 >   Sometime this month I will be
 > releasing a new version of Blackjack which has been ported to Ultra-C and
 > compiled for both OSK and OS9/x86.

Just out of curiosity, will the original source be about the same (command-
wise)?  If so, this will give us a chance to compare the two.. well, maybe
not the BEST example, since so much depends on user input.

BTW.. I put in my order for UCC about a week ago.. have you gotten your
commision yet <G>.  Anyway, I decided I may as well jump on the bandwagon,
because it looks like this is the way to go, and there's no use in writing
a bunch of code that will need to be modified.

                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

91254 5-JAN 23:19  Programmers Den
     RE: _gs_rdy() Question (Re: Msg 91199)
     From: DBREEDING    To: BUDDCAR (NR)

 > Just to put another oar in.
 > arguments put forward for hiding the source (control and mor control for
 > the most part)
 > ...  Source can be the
 > solution to the problem.  Frequently? I find a program which doesn't run
 > on my
 > TC70 simply because it used a different version of the CIO or MATH.
 > Trivial if I can recompile.  Impossible if I cannot.

I do see that this is one problem.  Probably the best thing where size is
not critical (I think this is the purpose of cio & math) would be to
not call them, and let the program handle this.

 > We have too many different specialized machines

Well, that is a point.  It is OK to release code for little stuff, but
I would think the best way to go would be if say, I write a really
good program for G-Windows that would find great general appeal, to
designate one MM/1 person to port it to K-Windows, and let him be
responsible for that version.  In your case, with Blackjack, after reading
PAGAN's reply, you might send him a request and he might recompile it without
the math trap.


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91200 4-JAN 01:09  General Information
     RE: CD-i (Re: Msg 91115)
     From: MREGC        To: WA2EGP


  > It's possible that Panasonic has given those salespeople a good deal...

    This is very true. At at least one of these stores they told me they
that they were having a contest to see which employee could sell the most
3DOs before Christmas. The winner would win their own 3DO.

  > ... they don't really send good demo stuff ...

    Well, even with Burn:Cycle, it doesn't really catch the eye of the
average gamer unless they actually stop to watch it for awhile. The games
that draw the most attention are the action-arcade style games, which isn't
really CD-i's forte, at least, not yet. :)

..Eric...

-*-

91201 4-JAN 01:16  General Information
     RE: Dragon's Lair II (Re: Msg 91125)
     From: MREGC        To: MITHELEN

Paul,

  > ... I still rank Mutant Rampage above it though...

    Interesting. I've played MR a bit and wasn't very impressed by it. The
graphics are great but the control seems to be a bit lacking. However, the
general consensus over on C-Serve is that it grows on you and is actually a
really good game, a judgement you seem to concur with.

    I'm going out to pick up a new CD-i game tomorrow. Unless Chaos Control
is available, I'll take evryone's word for it and get Mutant Rampage.

    I just finished DL II tonight and I still can't say enough about it. I've
never been so impressed by a game. (But Space Ace is still my sentimental
favorite.)

    By the way, I'm headed out to Vegas for Winter CES on Thursday. As soon
as I get back I'll let you guys know what new and interesting stuff we have
to look forward to for CD-i this year.

..Eric...

-*-

91202 4-JAN 01:29  General Information
     RE: Dragon's Lair II (Re: Msg 91201)
     From: MITHELEN     To: MREGC (NR)

I'd sure like to see a good hocky game for CDi... something as good (if not
better) then the Sega version.. Has anyone seen/played the Baseball game?
I'm not a sports game nut, but most of my friends are, and they satisfy a
group of people better... Be REALLY cool to see Doom II for CDi though!

-*-

91225 4-JAN 22:02  General Information
     RE: Dragon's Lair II (Re: Msg 91202)
     From: HAWKSOFT     To: MITHELEN

Hi Paul!! (actually ALL!)

   Just a quick note: Phillips just upgraded my CD-i player today. From
vr #1 to vr #15 (!), and NOW I can play Burn:Cycle !!!!!!! The older players
didn't work with the controller plugged in the front port, and Burn:Cycle
won't run more than 5 min. with the controller plugged in the rear port.
If you have an old CDI 910 that acts this way, take it to the Phillips Service
Center ( in Itasca ) and they'll upgrade it 'while you wait'.

      Gotta go, Cutter is calling!!!!!!!

                                                Chris


   :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :->  Chris "HAWKSoft"  <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-:

        Delphi: HAWKSOFT                   Internet: HAWKSOFT@DELPHI.COM

   ******************< Uploaded w/ InfoXpress vr. 1.02.00 >******************

-*-

91238 5-JAN 05:45  General Information
     RE: Dragon's Lair II (Re: Msg 91225)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: HAWKSOFT (NR)


 > Gotta go, Cutter is calling!!!!!!!

    Cutter, what's happening? Are you allright? (famous last words) :)
A small spoiler, but the commercials have spoiled it anyway. :) I love B:C!



     Dave



-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91207 4-JAN 01:54  General Information
     RE: FMV program poll (Re: Msg 91160)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: MRGOOD


      Thanks, after bieng offline for a month I allmost forgot about it
myself.

      Ok, all MM/1 owners. I plan to produce an FMV game for the MM/1 that
will be later ported to CDI. I am buying a Macintosh to handle the real time
capturing of video. I do need someone to write an animation format for MM/1
so I can port the FMV frame by frame. (or I can see about restrictions on
the use of Autodesk's FLI format for profit)

      WHAT I NEED YOU TO DO is voice your support for the FMV game on the
MM/1. I don't ask for any quota of yes votes but I would like to know if I
should bother pressing 100 disks with MM/1 spesific data on it. I hope I can
use the same data for CDI but I might want to use Digital Video. There are
alot of things I have to think over before I start. I may even do filming at
Chi Fest '95 for the game. The game will be on a CD, the format of the CD
isn't set yet but I think it will be CD-i. Game price is somewhere around
$50, it depends on alot of things.

      So please vote! Even if you don't have a CD-ROM drive.

      I hate to include this in this post but The Compiler is no longer in
production. It may return later if I can afford Digital Video mastering
equipment. I should have alot of these decisions made in February. The
Compiler was too much to handle alone (and I mean I was my own cameraman).


        Dave
 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact disks, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

91208 4-JAN 01:54  General Information
     RE: Monitor Headache (Re: Msg 91161)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DSRTFOX (NR)


     What do you think of the Mitsubishi DiamondScan? Is there a list of
usable monitors with the MM/1? I just heard something gastly about
Magnavox Monitors and overscan modes.


       Dave



-*-

91245 5-JAN 22:32  General Information
     RE: Monitor Headache (Re: Msg 91161)
     From: CHARLESAM    To: DSRTFOX (NR)

Thanx Frank, I'll give it a try. I narrowed my problem down concerning my
Maggie. Its in the main board, the one at the floor of the monitor. If I
remove the cover and prop a plastic object under the back right corner of
that board, no problem, my monitor works fine. I'm thinking a fine crack
in that board might be the answer. I plan on taking the thing apart and
going over it with a magnifying glass. Maybe I can spot the break or the
bad solder joint. Otherwise, new monitor.... or new used monitor. Alot of
good people have helped me here. I'll be in touch. I'm also having HD
headaches and for that, your the source. Later Charlie

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91212 4-JAN 03:25  General Information
     RE: OS-9 and PowerPC (Re: Msg 91172)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: BRIANGOERS

 > I have just now noticed in the December 22.1994 issue of EDN an
 > advertisement for OS-9 on the PowerPC.
 > Call Microwarw toll-free at 1-800-475-9000 (I love that last part of the
 > number)
 > For a free copy of the OS-9 for PowerPC White Paper. No price was listed.

        Great, I think I'll call them so I can spread the propaganda. :)

    Someone mentioned to me a PC OS called Linux, a UNIX clone. Anyone know
anything about it? He said it was FREEWARE.


      Dave


 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact disks, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

91220 4-JAN 19:45  General Information
     RE: OS-9 and PowerPC (Re: Msg 91212)
     From: JOHNREED     To: DIGIGRADE

 >     Someone mentioned to me a PC OS called Linux, a UNIX clone. Anyone know
 > anything about it? He said it was FREEWARE.

In my efforts to learn more about UNIX, I have both LINUX (yes it's
free) and COHERENT running on my messydos box.  I got linux on a
couple CD's for about $16.00 at a local computer show.  I bought
COHERENT (about $150).

Both of them work fine on my lowly 386/SX-25.  I have X-Windows running
under COHERENT, - LINUX does X-Windows too, but (so far) it doesn't
like the cheap VGA card I have.  Both seem be pretty good UNIX-type
systems, but I cannot compare them to other UNIX systems except to
say that they act like UNIX manuals say they should.  I have no
experience on UNIX systems -- that's why I got them.

For more info, and a running flame war between LINUX and COHERENT
fans, see comp.os.linux.*** and comp.os.coherent in the newsgroups.

They have helped me a lot to understand what is supposed to be
happening in those UNIX shell scripts in  GNU makefiles.
           ********************************
       A stitch in time --------------------
               ------ is worth two in the bush

 John R. Wainwright <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

-*-

91229 4-JAN 23:22  General Information
     RE: OS-9 and PowerPC (Re: Msg 91212)
     From: GREGL        To: DIGIGRADE

I'm running Linux (at least as much as I can) on a 386SX-25 system with a
50MB hard drive. It is a nice operating system and pretty much looks and
feels exactly like Unix. Lots of GNU stuff is available as is X windows.
The easiest way to get into Linux is to pick up the Slackware Linux CD.

        -- Greg

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91221 4-JAN 19:46  General Information
     CDP 1302 Sony For Sale
     From: BOISY        To: ALL

I found this on internet
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I have a 4 year old Sony CPD-1302 13" color RGB monitor for sale.
It was previously used on both a Macintosh and a PC clone. It is
in excellent working order.  The monitor has a 9 pin plug so you
will need a proper cable for whatever computer you will use it
with. The monitor is a Multiscan type with the following frequencies:
Vertical: 50-100Hz
Horiz: 15.0-34.0kHz
It handles both analog and TTL input and can sync down to NTSC video
frequencies. I have the original manuals for it but not the original
box. I'm selling because I have moved up to a 17" monitor. I'm
asking $90.00 and you pay shipping. If interested send me email to:

sep@netcom.com


Thanks,
Scott

--

 *******************************************************************
 ** Scott E. Pendleton                         One more Brownie,  **
 ** Netcom - Online Communication Services        please!!        **
 **          San Jose, CA                                         **
 **                                                               **
 ** Internet: sep@netcom.COM                                      **
 ** AppleLink: D4214@applelink.apple.COM                          **
 ** CIS: 70070.334@compuserve.COM                                 **
 *******************************************************************

-*-

91235 5-JAN 01:33  General Information
     Delphi
     From: JEVESTAL     To: ALL

Hi All... just wanted to let you all know that I'm back online, hopefully
for a while.

Does anyone have the transcript to Joel's conferance on termcap?  I missed it
and was very interested in it.

Jim

-*-

91260 6-JAN 00:52  General Information
     RE: Delphi (Re: Msg 91235)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: JEVESTAL (NR)

Hey, Jim!

 > Does anyone have the transcript to Joel's conferance on termcap?  I missed
 > it and was very interested in it.

Yes, me!  :)  I plan on uploading it tonight or tomorrow night so it
should be available soon.  Amazingly, only half of my notes were covered
so I need to schedule another online conference to take care of the
uncovered material.

  -- Joel.


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91242 5-JAN 19:42  General Information
     Emulator
     From: PHILSCHERER  To: ALL

I downloaded the Coco2 emulator in the Coco database and when I try to
unzip it, the file names are listed but it tells me that it doesn't
know how to handle them. Any clues will be appreciated. <Phil>

-*-

91258 5-JAN 23:57  General Information
     RE: Emulator (Re: Msg 91242)
     From: PHXKEN       To: PHILSCHERER (NR)

That emulator file was zipped with the newer version on pkzip.
Vs 2.04 I think is the number.
Anyway the older pkunzip.exe will not work on it.
I believe that the CoCo unzip is based on the older versions.

$phxken@class68.com

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

91244 5-JAN 20:42  Games & Graphics
     RE: QuadDump (Re: Msg 91174)
     From: MICHAELJN    To: LARRYOLSON

Thanks for the info but I do not have an MM1. The printer driver is suppose to
support  the QuadJet printer.

-*-


FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit> 