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NUMBER OF LINES: 629 
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ************************* REMOVED: 11 AUG 83 ***********************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24 
25 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
26 Paul,
27     As you said, space exploration will probably be one of the first
28 areas to use AI, primarily because, with the distances involved, ground
29 control would be unable to help an unmanned probe make split-second
30 decisions.  Some form of AI would be needed to protect the lander or
31 spacecraft from damage.
32     It was mentioned that AI already exists.  That may be, but consider-
33 ing the corporations involved, I would be surprised that it hasn't made
34 an appearance.  These companies have been noted as wanting to be the 1st,
35 and if they had it, they would promote it.
36     This brings us to a new question.  They might not have publicized it
37 out of fear of public reaction, particularly with the current trend of
38 anti-technology that is so apparent in society.  So what does anyone
39 out there think would be the reaction of the general public?  Fear?
40 Hatred?  Pride?  Apathy?  I tend to think that Mary Shelly had the people 
41 pegged perfectly in "Frankenstein".
42 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
43 ****************************************
44 ****************************************
45 
46 AT LEAST INITIALY A.I. WOULD SERVE AS A PASSIVE OBJECTIVE 'SITUATION OBSERVER
47 '. ON EXTENDED TRAVEL IT WOULD PROVIDE A REFERENCE POINT , FROM WHICH 
48  RATIONAL ANALISYS COULD BE FORMED FROM  AN IRRATIONAL 
49 OCCURANCE I.E. OUT OF SPHERE OF EXPECTATION .
50 WHICH WOULD BE HIGHLY PROBABLE IN ANY EXTENDED EXPLORATION.
51 PERHAPS EVEN CONTINUE WITH THE EXPLORATION SHOULD THE CREW MEET WITH SOME 
52 UNEXPECTED END.
53 I INVISION SOMETHING IN THE ORDER OF 'HAL' WITHUOT THE BENIFIT OF ANY
54  ABERATION 
55 
56 
57 ****************************************************************BRENDAN*********
58 *******************************************************************************
59 
60 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
61  my apologies for not returning sooner,paul...
62  that goes double with me (paul's previous comment),BAD..........don't take offence
63  
64   yes.the cost of the box.i hadn't considered that,but i suppose it
65 is valid....space exploration does present a "classical" test for AI,
66 I wonder what kind of simulators we can dream up to test the boxes
67 before we send them up there......we obviously would need a simulator
68 that would do more than "main power supply voltage down 16.2%;action?"
69 but where do we draw the line ?a simulator that started presenting
70 situations like "obelisk at 14.938445 x 23.485613;action?" would never
71 be able to throughly test a box in a rational time...in fact ;ahh yes;
72 OUR FIRST USE OF A AI SYSTEM WOULD BE TO ASSIST IN TESTING SUBSEQUENT
73 AI SYSTEMS............................................!
74                                                 Aaron
75 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
76 Computers obviously complement humans very well:  Computers calculate
77 rapidly, control precisely, with essentially no error.  Humans imagine,
78 are 'artistic', can induce and deduce, and can handle new situations.  We
79 should be thankful that the other end of the spectrum is provided for.
80 --------------------------------------------------------
81 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
82   sysm?? did you get my message on db at ln 491?
83 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>Aa<><><><><>
84 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
85 - Well, it looks like the definitions haved stopped flying around and  -
86 - we're getting into the USES of A.I. I think that A.I. would be suit  -
87 - ably tested if it was required to write several programs with a hu   -
88 - man-friendly interface.......................................Pioneer -
89 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
90 ************************************************************************
91 
92 THERE IS A VERY THOUGHT PROVOKING BOOK BY  FREDERIK POHL CALLED
93 MAN PLUS.  IT DEALS WITH THE SYMBIOSIS OF MAN & MACHINE AS IT RELATES
94 TO EXPLORATION 
95 
96 
97 *****************************************************************BRENDAN
98 
99 bye
100 
101 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
102 
103 one of the few valid uses for an artificial intelligence would be to
104 call up various BBS systems and spout on for hours about totally 
105 inane subjects which no-one in his right mind would ever really care
106 about. One of the machines most loved subjects would of course be
107 machine type intelligences since that is a subject close to its heart.
108 
109                                             THE CEREBRAL ONE
110 
111 &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
112 
113 
114 ********************************************************************************
115 A.I. ....... INANE......?
116 
117 COME ON ......... IN THE NOT TO DISTANT FUTURE THE PERCEPTIONS OF A 'COMPUTER
118 WILL HAVE A DIRECT EFFECT ON YOUR LIFE.
119 NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF PERSONAL MANAGEMENT BUT ALSO OVERT OBSERVATION.
120 
121 THE C.I.A. HAS A PORTION OF THEIR SYSTEMS DEDICATED TO EAVESDROPPING ON ALL 
122 OVERSEAS COMMUNICATION . TRIGGERED BY CERTAIN KEY WORDS AND OR CODED TRANSMITION
123 ( THAT I UNDERSTAND TO BE TRUE )
124 AS A.I. TECHNIQUES BECOME MORE REFINED THE POTENTIAL FOR ANOMNYMITY DIMINISHES
125 FOR EXAMPLE 'CEREBRRAL ONE' WITH EVEN A RUDIMENTARY A.I. SYSTEM IT COULD DEDUCE
126 FROM YOUR MESSAGE YOUR MANNER OF SYNTAX AND THUS COMPARE WITH OTHER MESSAGES
127 ON OTHER SYSTEMS TO DETERMINE IDENTITY, PERHAPS DISCOVER A HISTORY OF SUBVERSIVE
128 ACTIVITY, AND NOTIFY THE PROPER AUTHORITIES....... SO MUCH FOR AN INANE TOPIC
129 
130 *****************************************************************BRENDAN*******
131 *******************************************************************************
132 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
133    So, we now have a new use for AI: tracking "subversives" by government 
134 agencies.  Sounds good, but if the AI has developed "consciousness" as
135 previously defined (disk b), might it not also develop a set of ethics,
136 perhaps even a set that would conflict with those of its users?
137    If this were the case, it wouldn't be very useful for observation.
138 How could you trust it?  It might feel empathy for the objectives of one
139 of the "subversive" groups that it was monitoring, and not report its
140 activities
141 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
142 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
143  yes,Brendan,you are correct about the monitoring..
144    if you are bored some weekend and you have 5 bucks to spend,try this..
145 
146   get the number for the French Consulate in RUSSIA
147    call (direct dial)
148 
149  say:    missiles,drop the football,cruise;mirage;surprise;
150        civil defence;boom!;(and any other nifties you can
151         think of..)
152 
153 
154      put a FAX machine on line for about a minute (send a map
155       of the pentagon)
156 
157      finally,hook up your computer (1200 baud,please) ,and send
158      totally random characters grouped in fives with interspersed 
159      carrige returns...eg  GHKUT kdfIK YBu23 K+M<W 
160 
161      be sure to add at the end "
162      call me at (your phone number),if you have
163      any further questions....long live Castro...
164   
165     after you hang up,stick around for a few mins....
166                                                          aaron
167 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
174 i get the strong impression that there is no conversation here, just
175 a lot of monologues, and each talker seems to think they are leading
176 the conversation. defintions and comments are tossed out, but the
177 replies seem not to take any notice. Do we need AI to get any
178 intelligent answer?
179 ................................................
180 *******************************************************************************
181 
182 HMMMM.... A POINT !
183 
184 I WAS REFERING TO STRICTLY THE INTELEGENENCE PORTION .  WITHOUT INJECTING ANY
185 CONSCIOUSNESS INTPO MACHINE.
186 
187 PERHAPS OVER AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME ?? THERE COULD DEVELOPE A SENSE OF 
188 BEING HOWEVER LOGIC AND EXPERIENCE WOULD BE THE BASIS
189 
190 ???    INTERESTING THOUGHT....
191            IS LOGICAL BEHAVIOR COMPATIBLE WITH THE IRRATIONAL CONCEPT OF 
192 'CONSCIOUSNESS' ?
193 
194 HMMMM...... 
195 
196       LET ME THINK ON THIS FOR A WHILE............
197 
198 
199 *******************************************************************BRENDAN******
200 ********************************************************************************
201 Who says we are TRYING to have an intelligent conversation here??????
202 I'm certainly not.....
203 ***********************
204 ----------------------------------------Aaron:
205    I think your point about lower "power" AI hardware/software was well
206 taken. It has definite connotations
207 of (and I almost hate to bring it up)
208 a "evolutionary" progression for the
209 development of sophisticated AIs.
210 
211                         Paul
212 -------------------------------------------------------------
213 
214 
215 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
216 So now we have the question "is intelligence possible on Backwater?"
217 I must say that the running conversation about AI is MUCH more intelligent than some of the things I have seen here in
218 the past.  So far, we haven't had any childish obscenity or changing of other's messages.  Bravo, gentlemen!!!!!           
219                                                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
220 AI in spaceflight? So far the manned moonshots have returned so much more
221 than the mechanical ones it would seem that this is the way to go, if we
222 can afford it. (The value isn't all data, the advertisements were pretty
223 good too.) We won't be dodging rocks in space, it's pretty empty, and those
224 that are there move fast. However, I'm not ready to ride off to Saturn and
225 beyond, let the computers go there first. One problem exists, though: as
226 systems get more complex they get bigger, heavier, and less dependable, as
227 well as cost more. The Russians have been very successful in space with 
228 (relative to US) quite primitive technology, because they haven't tried to
229 do it flashy.
230 Also, I'm not too worried about even AI computers monitoring phone calls,
231 the field is just too big. Certain aspects of phone calls are monitored,
232 such as calling patterns, or calls to certain numbers, or unusual patterns
233 of signalling that imply blue boxes, but your average call is pretty well
234 protected by shear volume of other calls. Of course I don't call Russia.
235 ////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
236 4 Aug 83
237      The Hoodview Amateur Radio Club will hold it's first 
238 Hamfair/Computer Show Aug 27 & 28 at MT Hood Community 
239 College.  There will be comerical displays, food and swap
240 tables (for radio and computer items only please). There is 
241 an admission of $2.00, 12 and under free. Swap tables are
242 $5.00. It will run Sat 9-6, Sun 9-3. For more information
243 send an SASE to Hamfair 83 Portland ,OR
244 97220.               
245 ***************************Bob****************************
246 ---------------------------------------- To the person that uses "^" to boarder
247 his (her?) messages:
248   I haven't figured out if you use a 
249 name with your messages (I could quite possibly missed it if you do).
250   Any way ... you expressed a point earlier on /about/ who ever
251 not being willing to say that they had a AI that I would like to comment on.
252 My own personal opinion is that this scenerio wouldn't happen.
253 This is for two possible reasons: (1)
254 Who ever would be bank-rolling this
255 type of research would be more that
256 anxious to retreive an investment on this type of "pure research" funding,
257 and (2) I don't really believe that the general public is "anti-tech" as
258 much as they are ignorant of the real
259 ramifications of it.
260 
261                       Paul
262 --------------------------------------------
263 Mike ... are you there?
264 -----------------------------------------------
265 
266 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
267 Paul
268      Dealing with your points (hopefully in order).  I used to use my
269 name with my messages, but I found that when I did, some very mature and
270 sophistocated person took great pleasure in eliminating them.  It later
271 became apparent that if I didn't sign them, they would remain.  You are
272 very observant, noticing the pattern and border of my messages, and
273 recognizing the lack of signature.
274      You are correct about the corporations.  Any business that would
275 invest enough money to create AI would certainly want to capitalize on
276 their investment.  But I still feel that they would take great care in 
277 releasing their product because of the fear of the general public.
278      This brings us to the other point.  The general public isn't afraid
279 of new inventions.  But there is a small (but EXTREMELY loud) minority of
280 anti-techs in our society, and though they are a minority, our culture
281 listens to loud minorities.  If they drown out the majority, who else is
282 there to listen to?
283      I deal with the public extensively in my position, and believe me,
284 the anti-techs are on the increase.  Mostly out of dissapointment that
285 science hasn't solved all their problems, they naturally conclude that
286 science is the SOURCE of their problems.  The "back to nature" movement
287 exemplefies this perfectly.  I am somewhat "granola" myself, but I
288 realize that we can't go back.  There are just too many people in our
289 world to support without technology in agriculture.  But you can't tell
290 someone that when they already have convinced themselves otherwise.
291 ( Don't give me the facts, I have my mind made up!! ). 
292           /Elberich\ (I'll try again!)
293 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
294 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
295 hi this is Cheol Yi from Beaverton, and I have absolutely no idea how this 
296 system works so help!!!!
297 
298 
299 
300 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
301 Well, then we have something in common.  I have no idea how the world works.
302 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
303 ----------------------------------------To "^^^^^^..."
304    Your points are well taken ... especially about small vocal 
305 minorites.
306 
307                      Paul
308 -----------------------------------------------
309 
310 I'd like to sell my Apple II+ system so I can buy a computer compatable
311 with the IBM PC I use at work.  System includes the computer, Apple III
312 monitor, disk drive, monitor stand, 16K RAM card (for a total of 64K)
313 Novation Applecat II modem with terminal program called Comware II, a
314 parallel printer interface card plus a board called The Repeaterrr that gives 
315 all keys a repeating function.  I'll also throw in tons of software including
316 Screenwriter II, Olympic Decathalon, Home Accountant, Snooper Troops, 
317 Tax Preparer.  Many others.  Everything is in perfect condition.  All the 
318 documentation is intact.  I even have the original cartons.  I'll sell the 
319 whole package for $2,000.  If you're interested, call me at 657-xxxx. 
320 Thanks.  Barry Lacter.
321 
322 ...............................................................
323 Tron: in re multiprocessing on a "single processing" (?)
324 machine- look in your Z80 assembly manual under "interrupt pro-
325 cessing". Your TRS-80 is actualing running 3 to 7 "programs" at
326 once.
327 _______________________________________________________________
328 Someone mentioned a friend who will not admit the possibility 
329 of "smart" equipment. I suggest that we ALL should check out
330 the controversy regarding the alleged use of language by chimps
331 (and possibly dolphins). The pro arguments aren't TOO out of
332 line (most of the time), but the opposition ranges from "ob-
333 server error" (or implied prejudice of observer!) to out and
334 out "they can't possibly be doing that, so I don't even need
335 to look at the evidence". To me this implies that we will NEVER
336 get SOME people to accept AI as having been achieved.
337 Someone else suggested "SELF-PROGRAMMING" as a criteria,
338 well according to B. F. Skinner (& others) WE aren't self-
339 programming! I also got a laugh out of the proposed test-
340 having the machine write programs with a "user-friendly" inter-
341 face. Most PROGRAMMERS (myself included!) don't/can't do that.
342 Rule #1 (for proposing AI tests): Make sure that YOU can pass
343 your suggested test. (unless you don't being considered "un-
344 intelligent")
345 As for why companies might keep AI secret, they may not
346 be willing to risk losing their investment be patenting it. It
347 seems that the only way to win a patent action is to have more
348 time & MONEY than the other party.
349 I don't believe that we will have to worry about the AI
350 phone monitor getting "soft" on subversives. If they are using
351 the program, it will have been written to avoid such problems.
352 In fact, the avoidance of human weaknessess is one of the driv-
353 ing forces behind AI research. It is quite likely that an
354 "acceptable" program will have to be "brainwashed" so that it
355 won't "disobey" orders. (see Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics"
356 for example)
357 _______________________Leonard_________________________________
358 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
359 Leonard,
360      The big problem with AI that has been programed to avoid ethical
361 thought (brainwashed), and won't disobey orders, is that you then arrive
362 at a point where the program can only follow orders.  This is no advance
363 over currently available hardware, which does the same thing.  The AI
364 we were discussing was supposed to be capable of independant thought, and 
365 as such, MUST be able to make independant decisions.  If all it does is   
366 slavishly follow orders, than it doesn't have independant intelligence.    
367      I suppose that we might have a criterion for AI here.  It must be    
368 capable of INDEPENDANT thought.  If all it does is parrot back to you     
369 your own thoughts, then it is little better than a calculator.  I have    
370 met Moonies with thought processes similar to that.                        
371                    /Elberich\                         (Safe so far!!!!)    
372 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
373 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
374 - How would you describe a machine with intelligence but without consc -
375 - iousness? Everytime we think of something as intelligent we automati -
376 - cally assume that it is "conscious." Even if we know that it isn't c -
377 - onscious, don't we still assume it? .........................Pioneer -
378 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
379 """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
380 
381 How come were back where we started again? Lets try to get away
382 .........................
383 OK, stars, here we come....
384 ................
385 -----
386 I hate people who put weird control characters/escape codes in their msgs.
387 -----
388 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
389 
390 OH YEAH! YOU JUST COME ON OUTSIDE AND SAY THAT AGAIN YOU TWERPS!
391 
392 @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
393 
394 Since (as far as we know) there has never been 'intelligence' without
395 'consciousness' then we have no evidence that the CAN be separate.
396 That's not to say that this proves they CAN'T be separate.  One may
397 be a necessary subset of the other, or they could be sets with elements
398 in common.
399 We simply don't understand what we're dealing with well enough
400 to quantitize or define it.
401 
402 Here's my idea: It is difficult to accept the idea of an
403 intelligent machine because when we think of/build computers, we design
404 them from the smallest component, forming larger subassemblies, and
405 finally the entire architecture.  Each component is precisely defined, with
406 exactly known behavior.  (transistors, ICS, PC boards, etc.).  Thus, "Isn't
407 the machine precisely defined, so it's behavior is precisely knowable?".
408 On the other hand, intelligent organic beings (us) are first
409 considered as a completed whole.  We think, consider, design, act 'independ
410 antly,' so as we split up the study of humans we believe all it's components
411 are equally independant.
412 Therefore some think that since machines are 'knowable' they are
413 inherently different than people, who are 'unknowable.'
414 
415 What's my opinion?  I wish I knew.......  Make a machine sufficiently
416 complex, and it might become indistinguishable from people.
417 This philosophy gives me a headache.  I think I'll stop.
418 **********========----------========********========--------=========*******
419 ----------------------------------------Aaron 
420  (and all the folks that have been involved in this "discussion" on AI)
421 
422   Its really an amazing thing to me that through the course of almost
423 random comments over the last five
424 days we have covered very closely
425 the following quote from E. Rich's book on AI and I quote;
426 
427    "Before embarking on a study of specific A.I. problems and solution
428 techniques, it is important at least
429 to discuss, if not answer, the following four questions:
430 
431 1. What are our underlying assumptions
432 about intelligence?
433 2. What kinds of techniques will be useful for solving A.I. problems?
434 3. At what level of detail are we trying to model human intelligence?
435 4. How will we know when we have succeeded in building an intelligence?
436 program? "
437 
438    I suggest that all the discussions that have occured so far fit into
439 one of the above catagories ....
440 
441 So its time to get on with some REAL
442 discussion ... please!
443 
444                   Paul
445 --------------------------------------------------
446 
447 aAARON - FINE., WHAT IS THE PROBLEM WE ARE TRYING TO USE
448 A.I. TO SOLVE?/
449 -----------------------LEONARD---------
450 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
451 OK PAUL.  NOW, DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS?  NOTHING SEEMS TO HAVE
452 BEEN ACCOMPLISHED WITH THIS ONE!!!
453 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
454 ----------------------------------------To '+++++':
455   Well I don't necessarily think that nothing was accomplished
456 , there was a lot of good information
457 passed back and forth, and lot of
458 areas were covered, I just think that
459 its time to move on.
460   Anyway ... I think that a good place
461 to continue this is an agreement that
462 a basic function any "system" especially an AI "system" is to solve 
463 problems ... what say a discussion on
464 how to build a system to solve problems?
465   As a start I state that on a basic level this includes:
466 1. A precise definition of a problem
467 2. An analysis of the problem.
468 3. Choosing the best techniques to solve the problem, and apply them.
469 
470                         Paul
471 ----------------------------------------------
472 
473 
474 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
475 Oh keeper of the Inn,
476    After my brief visit and fortnight departure, I
477 return to see a group of people circled, taking most of the floor, and 
478 talking inbetween their long pulls of ale. A few have broken off, and you 
479 are pacing, looking very worried, near some weak support beams.
480    The Inn is in a normal state at last.
481    I will stop by the main group just long enough to say a new greeting 
482 I learned in a far off land: Hi!
483 
484    One thing we all must remember about an artificially intelligent 
485 macxine is that it may not help in many of the projects we propose to it. 
486 The chances of us making a machine that can become more intelligent than 
487 us is very small, and it would take a very long time for enough 
488 AI machines designing their supirior counterparts before our level will 
489 be surpassed. So they will not be able to provide us with any knowledge 
490 wouldn't have already considered.
491    Another thing to ponder is that if we take the individual actions of 
492 ourselves separately, a computer can perform any function we can with the
493 CURRENT state of technology (icluding original art).  The only thing that 
494 computer CAN'T do that we can is to do them all simultaniously.
495   Keeper, I enjoyed my brief stay. I give thanks for your hospitality.
496    Akonis
497 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
498 ----------------------------------------Akonis:
499   Even though I may not speak at times in the same terms that you do
500 I still need your poetry ... stay.
501                         Paul
502 ------------------------------------------------
503 
504 SO THIS IS THE FAMOUS BACKWATER MESSAGE SYSTEM  MY MY!!
505 SOME HOW IT'S KIND OF WHAT I EXPECTED
506 DOES ANY ONE TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE BUT AI AI AI AI AI
507 
508 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
509 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
510  person who addresed me above:
511    note that i have not left ANYTHING on the system since ln 167,
512    if somebody does this:
513  ------------------------------------------Aaron:
514    they are ADDRESSING me,this is not FROM me.............
515 
516  to those who I have had private (?) consul with.......
517    you can find me at the oasis of rationality spoke of......
518 
519      elsewise......it has been enjoyable..........
520 ......I will try to visit the inn,yet my encounters may be
521     spaced a little farther apart than some of you (esp. those
522     to whom i responded instantaniously to...whew 
523     talk about fast dialing!) are used to......
524                                         Aaron
525 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
526 ----------------------------------------Aaron:
527     If it was not you that entered the 
528 precedeing message please under stand that this is not directed at you; if it is
529 you than I am very confused ...
530 
531 I do understand those that would take 
532 advantage of this system
533 There is a lure in being able to present a negative idea and use 
534 another's name for ego advantage ....
535 BUT I still think that it is a 
536 SICK proposition in any case ...
537 I am appalled that anyone would take
538 advantage of this situation.
539 
540 ------------
541 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
542 On the other hand, it is very easy to use anothers name on any
543 of the other systems too. Though PMS does have passwording 
544 which helps for those who want the most in protection, Others
545 do not. You can call CBBS with any name you choose! It is only the
546 completely freeform structure of BWMS that allows a change of
547 heart in mid stream that is the cause for this concept of stealth
548 and treachery. It is far more difficult to recall a system (particularly
549 with the high activity on then of late) then to simply change your
550 identity in the middle of useing it (real or fake). Indeed, even I
551 do not know what identity I will use when I make an appearence here
552 until after reading it has given cause for that identity to take form.
553 %%%%%%%%% The In-Sane Scientist %%%%% Aug 6, 1983 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
554 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
555 Leonard,
556   NO the TRS-80 (or Z-80 for that matter) doesn't do multiple
557 processing. There is only 1 interrupt on the Model I computer
558 and that's for the 40-times-a-second for clock and I/O cleanup.
559 If you Take a look at the stack before the interrupt, and after
560 the interupt, you'd find that the registers weren't PUSHed into
561 stack, but were identical to what they were when you started
562 out. So, you must PUSH and POP your registers or your system
563 could go wacko and lock itself into a state of cellular
564 suspension.
565   I just got a TANDON 40 track Double-Density disk drive. I
566 need a DOS. Could you give me a copy of TRSDOS 2.3 for a smal
567 fee or for a few programs?
568 
569                            ______
570                          == TRON ==
571                            ------
572 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
573 HAVE WE FINALLY AGREE TO SEND ALL AI TO THE STARS, AND CONTINUE HERE
574 WITH SOMETHING ELSE?
575 IF NOT, ONE SMALL COMMENT: COMPUTERS, EVEN AI ONES LACK ONE SMALL DETAIL:
576 UNIVERSAL MANUPULATORS.
577 FOR A STARTER ON SOMETHING ELSE, AN ARTICLE ON FARTHER OUT INTELL. LEADS
578 TO THE QUESTION OF HOW WE COULD IDENTIFY ONE, OR IDENTIFY OURSELVES. THE
579 PROPOSAL WAS TO SEND MESSAGES CONTAINING SEUQENCES THAT WERE UNLIKELY TO
580 BE NATURAL, BUT COULD BE IDENTIFABLE. (THIS MEANS TO SOMETHING ON SOME
581 OTHER PLANET, PERHAPS WITH A TOTALLY DIFERENT BIOLOGY, ETC.) I HAVE A 
582 COUPLE OF THESE SEQUENCES, AND IF THERE IS INTEREST EXPRESSED WILL PUT
583 THEM HERE. PERSONALLY, I FIND THEM CLOSER TO RANDOM, BUT SOME MIGHT BE
584 ABLE TO DECIPHER.
585 ///////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
586 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
587 - Is it my imagination or has the system slowed down? Mikey, what's happen -
588 - ing? ............................................................Pioneer -
589 -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
590 HI
591 PR 10
592 
593 
594 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
595 I sit by the fire, yet I find that I am still deeply chilled.  The events that have recently transpired frame my thoughts,
596 filling my soul with a lasting disquiet, and stilling my otherwise jubilant spirits.  Mayhap it is only a fervent imagination
597 that causes my distress, but I think not.
598 When I most recently entered the Inn, I discovered what I thought to be an open discussion, and gladly joined in, hoping to
599 add to it, giving others pause to think, and perchance learning of new and exciting ideas from them.  It eventually came to my
600 attention that this loud, boisterous exchange was meant only for priviledged ears, and my presence was resented by one in
601 particular, who soon departed for other climes.
602 To you, oh errant of the East lands, I extend this fervent apologia.  I didn't intend an intrusion, nor did I wish to see your
603 departure.  It is my understanding that you are troubled by miscreants who attempt to do evil in your name, and sully your
604 reputation.  I fear that this is most bothersome, and while I have little to offer as solution, I can hope to offer solice.    
605 But please, oh errant, do not depart this pleasant place in anger or resentment.
606        Though I will continue to frequent this marvelous establishment, and sample its varied wares, I now realize that there  
607 are those who prefer my silence.  Perhaps they are correct.  It is a subject to which I must give much thought.
608                  /Elberich\                                                                                                    
609 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
610 WE WANT A NEW DISK    WE WANT A NEW DISK   WE WANT A NEW DISK   WE WANT A NEW DISK  WE WANT A NEW DISK  WE WANT A NEW DISK.....
611 #####################################################3
612 on AI.   Has anyone of you ever heard of the "Turing" test for
613 determining if a machine could be said to be artifically intelligent.
614 It goes like this:
615 The tester sits in one room, and can communicate with another room
616 using a teletype or console.  In the other room, an experimenter either hooks the
617 artificially intelligent machine to the console or mans it himself.  
618 The test is whether the tester can correctly identify wheterh
619 the pir is a person or machine on the other end.  This is considered
620 the classical definition of machine intelligence.
621 ###################################################
622 Again, it has been discussed here, and at length: the Turing test is OBSOLETE.
623 As is all discussion here of definitions of AI. (Tho they may have spooled off>)
624 Altho, if you were smart, how would you identify yourself as smart?
625 Sorry, what is wrong with the simple Turing test? It is inadequate; there can
626 be intelligent (correct, original, smart, etc) "thought" that is NOT human;
627 for example too fast or using an linear algorithm too elaborate for humans.
628 ................................................................
629 Mikey, 2 disks in 5 days!?!?!?

