NUMBER OF LINES: 629 
1 WELCOME TO BWMS (BACKWATER MESSAGE SYSTEM)
2 ************************ REMOVED: 9 AUG 82 **************************
3 BACKWATER MESSAGE SYSTEM (BWMS) MIKE DAY SYSTEM OPERATOR
4 
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 
8 BWMS WAS CREATED AS AN ELECTRONIC BILL BOARD. BWMS IS A PRIVATLY OWNED
9 AND OPERATED SYSTEM WHICH IS CURRENTLY OPEN FOR USE BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC.
10 NO RESTRICTIONS ARE PLACED ON THE USE OF THE SYSTEM.
11 IT IS INTENDED THAT THE SYSTEM IS NORMALLY USED FOR MESSAGES AND 
12 ADVERTISMENTS BY THE USERS. AS THE SYSTEM IS PRIVATLY OWNED, I RETAIN THE
13 RIGHT TO REMOVE ANY AND ALL MESSAGES FROM THE SYSTEM WHICH ARE OFFENSIVE
14 TO ME. ADDITIONALLY BECAUSE OF THE LIMITED SIZED OF THE SYSTEM, IT WILL BE
15 PERIODICALLY PURGED OF OLDER MESSAGES. (ONLY 629 LINES AF DATA CAN BE SAVED)
16 
17 TO LEAVE A MESSAGE, TYPE 'ENTER' AND USE CTRL/C OR BREAK TO GET OUT
18 OF THE ENTER MODE. THE MESSAGE IS AUTOMATICLY STORED.
19 IF AFTER ENTERING THE MESSAGE YOU FIND YOU MADE A MISTAKE,
20 USE THE REPLACE COMMAND TO REPLACE THE LINE.
21 
22 TO EXIT FROM THE SYSTEM TYPE 'OFF' THEN HANG UP
23 THIS WILL PREVENT THE FILE UNSAFE MESSAGE FROM PRINTING OUT WHEN THE
24 NEXT CALLER USES THE SYSTEM NO BIG DEAL IF YOU DON'T TURN THE SYSTEM OFF
25 IT USED TO MEAN THAT SOME DATA WAS LOST, BUT I HAVE SINCE MODIFIED THE
27 SOFTWARE TO SAVE IT. 
28 IT WAS LEFT IN BECAUSE I NEED IT WHEN I AM CLEANING THE FILES UP.
29 ********************************************************************
30 How quickly can you find out what is so unusual about this
31 paragraph? It looks so ordinary that you would think that
32 nothing was wrong with it at all and, in fact, nothing is.
33 But, it is unusual. Why? If you study it and think about it
34 you may find out, but I am not going to assist you in any
35 way. You must do it without coaching. No doubt, if you work
36 at it for long, it will dawn on you. Who knows? Go to work
37 and try your skill. Par is about half an hour.
38 >>FOR SALE<<
39 APF Computer:16K-Expandable. Tape sy,joy sticks on board. 6800cpu-based--Machine language programmable
40 Hi-res,lo-res graphics,sound.Good first machine,or as hardware freak's delight!
41 Call xxx-xxxx any time. Leave message.
42 ******************************
43 :<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<  Shugart 850 sale  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
46      $250.00
47                Laurence Gilbert
48 	(503) xxx-xxxx   afternoons please
49 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
50 ********************
51 FM: CISTOP MIKEY  TO: ANYONE WHO CARES (AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T CARE FOR THAT
52 MATTER)
53 DRIVE B IS CURRENTLY DISENGAGED FROM THE SYSTEM. IF YOU SELECT DRIVE B YOU WILL
54 ONLY GET DRIVE A (EVEN THOUGH IT SAYS YOU ARE ON DRIVE B) THE REASON BEHIND 
55 THIS DEVIOUS PLOT TO CONFUSE YOU THE USER, IS THAT DRIVE A IS A TEST DRIVE
56 CURRENTLY. IT IS BEING USED TO SEE HOW MUCH PUNISHMENT IT CAN TAKE (LORD KNOWS
57 IF IT CAN SURVIVE THIS SYSTEM IT CAN SURVIVE ANYTHING!) AS SUCH, IT IS BEING
58 LEFT ON ALL OF THE TIME (EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO ONE ON THE SYSTEM) TO TRY TO 
59 GET IT TO CROAK. THEN I CAN TRY TO ANALIZE WHAT HAPPENED TO SEE HOW GODD A 
60 DRIVE IT REALLY IS. THE DRIVE BY THE WAY IS A 1/2 HIGH TEAC SINGLE SIDED DRIVE.
61 BECAUSE OF THIS HIGH INTENSITY TEST PROCEDURE, I HAVE DISCONNECTED DRIVE B
62 WHICH IS MY NORMAL EVERYDAY SHUGART SA400 SO THAT I DON'T DESTROY IT IN
63 THE PROCESS. SOME RESULTS OF PREVIOUS TESTS: MPI MODEL 51 DIED AFTER 2 WEEKS
64 MOTOR SEIZED SPURATIC ERRORS THOUGHOUT THE TEST PERIOD. THEY SEEM TO HAVE
65 ALIGHNMENT PROBLEMS. CDC 5" SINGLE SIDED TEST TIME ONE WEEK TEST TERMINATED
67 TANDON 5" SINGLE SIDED DIED AFTER 3 WEEKS, MOTOR SEIZED, LUBED THE MOTOR, AND
68 IT RAN FOR ANOTHER WEEK, BUT HAD SPURATIC ERRORS. TEST TERMINATED AFTER 4 
69 WEEKS. SHUGART SA400 (WHATS NORMALLY ON HERE) DIED AFTER 4 WEEKS MOTOR 
70 SEIZED. BASF NEVER COULD GET IT TO RUN ON SYSTEM SO NO TEST RESULTS AVAILABLE.
71 THAT IS THE EXTENT OF THE DRIVES THAT HAVE BEEN TESTED SO FAR, THE RESULTS
72 SEEM TO INDICATE SEVERAL THINGS, IN HEAVY DUTY TYPE INSTALATIONS YOU SHOULD
73 USE A DRIVE WITH A BRUSHLESS DC MOTOR. (THE BRUSHES IN THE MOTORS IN THE
74 DRIVES THAT HAD SIEZURES SEEM TO BE THE MAIN PROBLEM GENERALLY DUE TO GETTING
75 BRUSH DUST GUMMING UP THE INSIDES OF THE MOTOR) THE BAND STEPPERS WHILE BEING
76 NICE AND FAST SEEM TO HAVE DIFFICULTIES MAINTAINING CONSISTANT ALIGHNMENT.) 
77 I WOULD RECOMEND USING A SCREW TYPE STEPPER IF RELIABLITY IS OF GREATEST 
78 IMPORTANCE. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE BAND STEPPER IS NO GOOD, THERE
79 HAVE BEEN SOME IMPROVMENTS MADE IN THIS AREA. THE TEAC DRIVE THAT IS CURRENTLY
80 ON HERE HAS A BAND STEPPER, AND IT IS ONE OF THE BEST IMPLEMENTATIONS I HAVE
81 SEEN TO DATE. (MPI HAS THE WORST CLOSLY FOLLOWED BY CDC, TANDON IS A LITTLE
82 BETTER.) THERE APPEAR TO BE TWO MAIN PROBLEMS IN THE BAND STEPPERS, ONE IS
83 SLOP IN THE CARRAGE MECHANISM AND THE OTHER IS GREAT DIFFICULTY IN
84 REALIGNING THE DRIVE IF IT HAS TO BE WORKED ON. THE TEAC THAT IS ON HERE
85 USES A BRUSHLESS DIRECT DRIVE DC MOTOR. IT LOOKS GOOD, AND I DOUBT THAT 
86 THERE WILL BE ANY PROBLEMS FROM THAT AREA, AND IN FACT I EXPECT TO NOT HAVE 
87 ANY PROBLEMS FROM THE DRIVE AT ALL, IT IS ONE OF THE BEST LOOKING DRIVES
88 I HAVE SEEN TO DATE. OF COURSE THERE IS ALSO THE POOR OL' SHUGARTS WHICH WHILE
89 THEY HAVE PROBLEMS OF THERE OWN, THEY DO HAVE ONE THING TO SAY FOR THEMSELVES
90 AND THAT IS THAT THEY HAVE MANAGED TO SURVIVE OVER A YEAR OF  USE
91 ON THIS SYSTEM. THAT WHILE BEING SIGNIFICANT IN ITSELF MUST BE TAKEN WITH
92 THE ADDED REALIZATION THAT THEY WERE RESURECTED FROM THE JUNK PILE FOR USE
93 ON THIS SYSTEM. (YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT THAT WITH A STICK...)
94 ******** CIST OP MIKEY **** 9 AUG 1982 *******************************
95 While we're at it, let's zap some com-
96 ments, good or bad, at Radio Shack.  I'm
97 sure those of us with Trash-80's might
98 have some things to say about some Tandy
99 policies.  Not all necessarily bad,
100 either.
101 	-me-
102 ****************************************
103 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
104 re: Radio Shack/Tandy
105 *********************
106 My biggest gripe with that outfit is the
107 crap one has to go through to make a 29
108 cent purchase!  Name: Address: etc. When
109 you refuse they make
110 you feel like a less
111 than person person.
112 I am sick of getting all those junk 
113 flyers in my mail box, plus the fact 
114 that the information asked is none of 
115 their damn business!!
116 I don't own a Trash 80 and never will, 
117 no matter how low they might price them
118 or good they make them mainly because of
119 the above mentioned practices.  It does 
120 no good to write to the main offices as 
121 have already tried this and they didn't
122 even have the courtesy to answer.
123 Now when I absolutly have to have some-
124 thing from them, Igive them a totally 
125 inaccurate name and adress:
126 Hope that this ploy will add to their 
127 postage and printing costs.
128 
129         Radio shack customer (only under
130 protest)
131 
132 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
133 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
134 Well I am glad that someone else finds
135 that Radio Shack's pushy attitude about
136 a person's name and address is a pain
137 in the neck. I couldn't agree with you
138 more about it being none of their buis-
139 ness about my name and address. Cash
140 should be the extent of it.
141 I also give bullshit names and address
142 to the sales people. One of them told
143 me once that they are given some sort
144 of incentive if they get the names and
145 addresses of their customers.
146 I told him that i was already on the
147 mailing list
148 but he wasn't intrested in that
149 .
150 Consumers trying to find parts have a
151 hard enough time without the hassle
152 of a sales inquisition.
160 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
161 IN DEFENSE OF TANDY
162 MAYBE THE REASON THEY ARE A 2 BILLION DOLLAR A YEAR PLUS COMPANY IS THAT
163 THEY HAVE AN AGGRESSIVE MARKETING APPROACH. IT SEEMS TO WORK FOR THEM,
164 BECAUSE IF YOU LIKE THEIR PRODUCTS OR NOT, THEY HAVE ONE OF THE MOST
165 ENVIED AND PRAISED MARKETING DIVISIONS OF ANY LARGE CORPORATION IN
166 THE COUNTRY. THEIR CONSTANT QUESTIONS ABOUT NAMES AND ADDRESSES CAN
167 BE TIRING, BUT THE FLIERS THEY SEND OUT DO CREATE BUSINESS. THEY
168 PROMOTE SALES OF THEIR PRODUCTS, AND THAT MAKES THEM MONEY. I AM
169 NOT SAYING IT IS GOOD OR BAD FOR THE CUSTOMERS TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH
170 THE "SALES INQUISITION", I AM JUST SAYING FROM A SALES STANDPOINT,
171 IT WORKS, AND IT WORKS DAMN WELL !
172 
173 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
174 AFTER MAKING SEVERAL PURCHASES AT SOME LOCAL RADIO SHACK'S
175 I FEEL AS THOUGH I WAS NOT RIPPED OFF. OVERALL THEY SEEM TO
176 DO A VERY GOOD JOB WHEN IT COMES TO GETTING THEIR PRODUCTS
177 ACROSS. I DON'T LIKE GOING THROUGH ALL THE NAME AND ADDRESS
178 BIT EITHER. BUT LETS FACE IT, IT WILL PROBABLY NEVER EVER
179 CHANGE. TANDY SHOULD MAKE PLASTIC CARDS FOR ALL THE REGULAR
180 CUSTOMERS THAT INCLUDE EACH PERSON'S NAME AND ADDRESS. THEN
181 EVERY TIME THAT CUSTOMER BOUGHT SOMETHING, THE SALESPERSON
182 WOULD JUST PUT THE CARD THROUGH A CREDIT CARD IMPRINTER
183 WITH THE SALES RECEIPT. IT WOULD SAVE REGULAR CUSTOMERS
184 TIME AND THE HASSLE.                     THE INTERPID.
185 ******************************************
186  
187 What about the lousy packaging at R/S, you only want to buy one thingamagig but 
188 are forced to buy 2,43,4 or more regardless of your needs or wants!!  Then 
189 There's those damn plastic packaging, Impossible to open like the child-proof 
190 pill bottles.  Who ever invented shrink-plastic wrap should be strung up by his 
191 you know whats!!
192 
193 ********************************************
194 
195 Returning to the subject of the Byte (the customer) shops:
196 It would seem to me that if their products and service were just half as
197 good as they would have us believe, they could give a satisfaction guarantee
198 like Tom Peterson's. In fact I dare them to!!!! -- but I know they won't, 
199 because there's a sucker born every minute and as long as the Byte Shop
200 can get them into the store they will never clean up their act.
201 All this customer relations BS they put out is just part of thier con.
202 They have no intention of solving any of the real problems.
203 Their real intention is to corner the market in particular brands and
204 that will give them a free hand to do and charge what they want.
205 
206 Again, I dare the Byte Shop to put their money where their mouth is and
207 GIVE THE CUSTOMER A WRITTEN SATISFACTIONGUARANTEE!!!!!!!
208 ***************************************************************************
209 To the person who can't open the packaging at RS. Maybe you just arenn't
210 advanced enough to open such a complicated device. RS is simply trying
211 to protect you from yourself. If you can't open the packaging, get a
212 grown-up to do it for you !
213 ********************************************
214 Opening the packages is no problem if you are not handicapped as I am. I only 
215 one good hand and I dare any one out there to get any package (hard plastic or 
216 shrink-wrap) open without difficulty, especially if one is trying to save the 
217 package in case the item enclosed is not right in any way and it might have to 
218 be returned!  Also such packaging is not Tandy's alone, every retailer in the 
219 country has adopted this wasteful practice.  Just use your head and think of all
220 the Mid-East oil and
221 our own dwindling timber resources that end up at some land fill.  I for one 
222 would like to see the European system of taking your own bags etc. or having to 
223 pay extra for the container to carry your purchase home in.
224 This includes groceries etc.  
225    As for asking an adult to open bottles, packages etc. most that I have talked
226 to agree that this practice is totally a sales ploy to get you to buy more than 
227 you either need or want, and some retailers won't accept back a product that has
228 been opened no matter how carefully.
229 Now take your two "good" hands and respond to this if you can, that is unless 
230 you are mentally handicapped!!!
231 ********************************************
232 
233 
234 Although I have never been into the Tigard Byte Shop,
235 If they're anything like the one in Downtown Portland (on 4th
236 and Lincoln, they should be out of business.  I went in there
237 Monday afternoon, to fund out some info.  There were two people
238 working, one was chit-chating with a customer, and the other was
239 on the phone the whole time.
240 
241     I was in there for almost 1/2 hour, and all he said to me
242 was "DON'T TOUCH THAT".  I didn't even get an "I will be with
243 you in a minute."  The salesman just ignored me as if I wasn't
244 there.  JUST BECAUSE I AM ONLY 17, AND DIDN'T THINK I WAS THINKING
245 ABOUT A PURCHASE.  For that I will never go back there.  I would
246 rather go by mail order, and wait the 2 months for the idem I
247 want SIGHT-UNSEEN.  The friend that was with me also feels the
248 same way about the rotten service (if you even want to call it
249 service) we got.
250 
251 
252 			DBBS SYSOP
253 			**** *****
254 
255 **********************To T.B.S
256 
257    Why don't you offer a lifetime subscription to any person who gives you a 
258 valid complaint.  That way you can close up for bgood as I'm sure your resources
259 could not handle the expense, even if you did charge for coffee breaks & lunch. 
260 If you want positive praise you should start your own BBS with passwords issued 
261 to your 'satisfied' customers with the understanding that any dissent would auto
262 matically crash the users system and would be charged double to get it up and 
263 running again, provided your staff have this knowledge.
264 
265       Mail-order customer.
266 SORRY ABOUT THE DELAY OF CLEARING OFF THE GARBAGE FROM THIS MESS
267 I HAVE BEEN RATHER BUSY LATLY AND HAVE NOT BEEN ON HERE. BY THE WAY, 
268 THAT WAS A RECORD FOR BWMS. - AN ENTIRE DISK FILLED UP WITH THE SAME
269 SUBJECT. - WELL, HERE'S SOME MORE ROOM NOW SO GOT TO IT!!!!!!!!
270 ********** CIST OP MIKEY ***** 19 AUG 1982 **** 8:30 PM ***********
271 P.S. DON'T FORGET THE PORTLAND COMPUTER SOC. MEETING IS THIS SATURDAY
272 AT THE RAIGHLY HILLS FAR WEST FEDERAL SAVINGS IN THE RAIGHLY HILLS SHOPPING
273 CENTER THE MEETING IS IN THE COMMUNITY ROOM DOORS OPEN AT 1:00PM
274 ......................................................................
275 Well where in the Hell am I...I am calling from Tigard...I am not familiar with
276 this system . . . if you feel that you cal\n help call Rich at (503(\)xxx-xxxx
277 The problem with the Byte Shop (and probably with Computerland
278 too, since their 'service' is just as bad) is that their sales
279 people are on a commission.  So if you go in the store looking
280 like you are going to buy $5000 worth of iron they will wait
281 on you hand and foot, but it you are just browsing, forget it.
282 When I was computer shopping, I got so turned off by their
283 behavior (both stores) that I have never bought anything but
284 magazines at either store.  Instead I have purchased two
285 computers (and influenced the purchase of three more) at the
286 Radio Shack Computer store, which apparently pay their sales
287 people a decent salary (as well as commission).  For R.S haters,
288 The Computers and Things store in Aloha is also a friendly
289 place, and I wouldn't have to think twice about giving them
290 business.
291 
292 Tom Almy (First time on this system)
293 ***********************************************************:
294 I think one of the major problems with the BYTE shops is largely
295 an identity problem, they would perfer to sell to  businesses
296 rather then John Q Public off the street, yet they operate out
297 of a store front like they are in business for John Q Public.
298 It would probably save a lot of hassels all around if they would
299 close the stores and open a regular business type operation
300 instead. Alas I have found little of interest in any of the Byte
301 shops the Magazines tend to be old and out of date, and I am
302 not really interested in any of the equipment on display. I can
303 go to Fredies to get an Atrai (cheaper too!) and I really don't
304 have much interest in an Apple. An Altos is hardly in line with
305 my needs. I might be interested in an IBM PC, if I could ever
306 see one and a sales type that actually could answer a few 
307 questions about it.
308 As with most, I am not exactly in love with RS, but on the other
309 hand I will say this, they are incredibly mediocur. This can be
310 taken as good or bad depending on where you are comeing from.
311 Yes they do sell some poor quality junk, but I would like to 
312 remind you that it priced as junk too. It is simply the old 
313 'you get what you pay for' problem. Too many people think they
314 can pay next to nothing for something and get the world. RS 
315 does sell some good quality stuf if you want to pay they same
316 price that you would pay anyplace else. They don't sell super
317 quality stuff that cost you $1000 just to look at it, but then
318 they are not in business for that sort of thing. I really cannot
319 find fault with RS for serving the needs of thier customers
320 they are doing exactly what the market they are in demands.
321 (After all if they weren't they wouldn't have stores in just 
322 about every major city in the US.) I don't care for they name
323 address 3rd degree myself, but I can live with it. As far as
324 those who complain about recieving the flier, I find it amazing
325 that you don't want to recieve it after all, it is free and 
326 sometimes even has something interesting in it. I never object t
327 to junk mail there is always something of interest in it sooner
328 or later and it certainly lets you know what the people who are
329 advertising in it are doing.
330 *** irrespectivly submitted by the IN SANE SCIENTIST *** 20 AUG 
331 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^You had better chang
332 e your name if you think those junk mail flyers are free.  Who 
333 the hell do you think pays for them?  The next time you purchase
334 stamps or anything else at our U.S.Postal service see if you can
335 get the same rates that businesses pay.
336 The Postal workers spend up to 86% of their time dealing with 
337 this crap.  Besides if you want to be on these mailing lists you
338 should have to request it.  Granted there are some interesting 
339 items at times but as a rule it costs me $7.00 a month just to 
340 have them hauled away.  Mailing lists are sold for profit all 
341 time and I personally don't appreciate having my name on all 
342 the sucker lists.  what ever happened to personal privacy!!  
343 Also about the multipackaging, it should be illegal to sell more
344 than one needs or wants.  There may be some out there that need 
345 3 item since they ruin the first two, but some of us know what 
346 we want and shouldn't be forced to subsidize those that don't!!
347 
348 *****************************************************
349 I agree that RS is a terrible place to buy things.  I only
350 go there if by some unfortunate act of stupidity I forgot to
351 buy a part by mail order and need it QUICK.  Otherwise,
352 forget it.  As for Computerland:  I bought my IBM PC at
353 the Portland Computerland.  The dealer margin on an IBM
354 PC is 40%!  And I haven't even gone back once for advice/
355 help/etc.  I feel that service and hardware should be sold
356 absolutely separately, so that those of us who know what we
357 are doing don't have to pay for worthless help.
358 ***********************************************************
359 to those complaining about bubble packages with 2 resistors.
360 There is a good reason:it's cheaper! A resistor is worth about
361 $.01, or so. The handling is about $.30. Do you really wany to
362 pay 30 times as much for the package as for the product? Throw 
363 the extra resistor away, it didn't cost you anything. 5 at $.35
364 isn't really more expensive than 1 at $.31. 
365 I don't like to deal with RS because of their terrible quality
366 control, or rather lack there of. They didn't become the big kid
367 on the block by being better, but by pure volume and advertising.
368 This means is cheaper for them to buy things, and there advertising
369 is more effective. To the buyer this means they are there, and will 
370 still be there tomorrow. It means they can be less expensive and offer
371 more than their competitors. (Where else can you buy a card of
372 resistors? Especially if you aren't in a big city? Their biggest
373 problem is the way someone becomes a dealer: he just decides he 
374 wants to, and buys a franchise. Typically he knows less about what
375 he is selling than his customers. RS dealers aren't dishonest, just
376 ignorant. Here in Portland there is little need for RS, because there
377 are other stores that sell cheaper stereos, and part stores that sell
378 better, cheaper (i.e. in bigger packages) parts, but there is a radio
379 shack in just about any town I was ever in. By the way, their repair
380 shop sucks, but it is fast. A trash 80 can be fixed quicker than any
381 other brand.
382 *************************** a RS fan ********************************
383 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  Whats wrong with a parts cabinet with several hundred 
384 resistors, pin-outs, PC boards, etc so that the sales person can just sell you 
385 one item for 1cent or whatever and to hell with the wasteful packaging.  
386 As stated elsewhere here all that plastic just ends up in the trash can.  
387 Having worked in auto parts stores for many years I know that the
388 one item sales work. Think about having to buy two mufflers or valve cover 
389 gaskets just because they are packaged that way.  After all gaskets are just as 
390 fragile if not mor so than electronic parts and some almost as small.  When I 
391 buy something it makes me mad As hell to have to pay 30cents for a 1cent item 
392 all because of that damn package.  It's like paying $35.00 for a pair of pants 
393 and then having to walk around advertising the maker on your Butt, (come to
394 think of it that's where their name belongs)!
395 ..................................................
396 I HAVE SOME NEWS FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO TAKE OFFENSE
397 AT RADIO SHACK'S NAME AND ADDRESS POLICY... THE
398 SALES PEOPLE DON'T PARTICULARLY GO FOR IT EITHER.
399 sOMEONE STATED A NUMBER OF LINES AGO THAT SALES
400 PEOPLE HAVE SOME KIND OF INCENTIVE TO PESTER NAMES
401 AND ADDRESSES OUT OF CUSTOMERS... THIS IS NOT SO.
402 thERE ISN'T ANY OTHER REASON THAN "JUST COMPANY
403 POLICY" EXCEPT THAT THE DISTRICT MANAGER GETS UPSE
404 WHEN LESS THAN 80% OF THE SALES TICKETS COME IN
405 WITH NAMES/ADDRESSES.  AS A RADIO SHACK EMPLOYEE,
406 I FEEL THAT NAMES/ADDRESSES ARE NONE OF TANDY'S
407 DAMN BUSINESS.  FOR ONE THING, SOME PEOPLE MAY NOT
408 WANT TO BE PLACED ON THE MAILING LIST, BUT DON'T
409 REALIZE THAT'S WHAT THE N&A STUFF IS FOR.  THE
410 BETTER WAY TO HANDLE IT WOULD BE TO ASK THE CUS-
411 TOMER IF HE/SHE WANTED TO BE ON THE LIST, AND GO
412 ACCORDINGLY.  IN FACT, MANY TIMES I WRITE "CASH"
413 INSTEAD OF ASKING FOR N&A JUST BECAUSE I DON'T
414 THINK THE CUSTOMER WOULD APPRECIATE BEING BOTHERED
415 BY IT.  MANY PEOPLE FEEL THAT ALL RADIO SHACK EM-
416 PLOYEES ARE TOTAL MORONS WH KNOW NOTHING ELSE BUT
417 HOW TO TURN THE STEREOS ON.  GRANTED, A LOT OF THE
418 RADIO SHACK PEOPLE IN PORTLAND ARE MORONS, BUT
419 THERE ARE ALWAYS A FEW WHO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALK-
420 ING ABOUT, AND REALLY TRY TO HELP THE CUSTOMER.	
421 I HAVE CONCLUDED IT'S THE MORONS WHO PUSH HARD FOR
422 N&A, AND WE NORMAL ONES WHO TRY TO BE DECENT ABOUT
423 IT.
424     WANT TO HEAR MORE?  I THINK THE PLASTIC BUBBLE
425 PACKAGING SHIT REALLY SUCKS.  IT'S REALLY PRETTY
426 STUPID TO FORCE THE CUSTOMER TO BUY 25 DIODES FOR
427 $1.98 WHEN THEY ONLY NEED 1, AND COULD GET IT FOR
428 A PENNY OR TWO SOMEWHERE ELSE.  ONE OTHER THING
429 THAT I CAN'T STAND IS THAT MANY THINGS COME IN
430 "ASSORTMENTS" OF VARIOUS SIZES IN ONE PACKAGE.  sO
431 IF YOU WANT 25 OF THE SAME THING, YOU HAVE TO BUY
432 TEN THOUSAND PACKAGES.  I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND WHY
433 "WE" (MEANING R/S) DON'T HAVE SOMETHING LIKE A
434 PARTS BARREL, WHERE ONE COULD REACH IN AND PULL
435 OUT ONE OR TWO OF WHATEVER HE/SHE HAPPENS TO NEED.
436    I COULD GO ON AND GRIPE FOREVER ABOUT TANDY
437 POLICIES... OVERPRICING (400% ON PHONE STUFF!!),
438 THE N&A ROUTINE, ETC., BUT I BETTER NOT.  I JUST
439 WANTED TO GIVE THE VIEW FROM "THE OTHER SIDE OF
440 THE FENCE" AND SAY THAT R/S PEOPLE DON'T
441 PARTICULARLY LIKE WHAT'S GOING ON EITHER;
442 BUT, EVERYONE HAS TO WORK SOMEWHERE...
443 	        A R/S SALESMAN
444 R/S CUSTOMER FOR 10 YEARS
445 TRASH-80 OWNER (BOUGHT BEFORE I BECAME
446   AN R/S EMPLOYEE)
447 
448     BY THE WAY... ALL THE EXTRA GIZMOS
449 I HAVE HUNG ONTO MY TRS-80 ARE NON-RADIO
450 SHACK STUFF.  TANDY'S BASIC COMPUTER IS
451 VERY NICE, BUT THE PERIPHERALS, WELL...
452 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
453 To The previous message:
454  
455 Sure would like to meet you.  You sound like a p
456 person Who's got his head on straight!  Too bad 
457 you are in such a small minotity as to R/S people.
458 I have asked to have the ticket on my purchases 
459 marked cash and they usually write REFUSED
460 on it.  I too, have written to Tandy about their 
461 policies and asked to be removed from their mailin
462 g list.  Alas, in spite of postal regulations I am
463 still getting all that junk in my mail.
464 
465 Greetings:
466      Speaking as a FORMER employe of Ye Byte Shoppe, I would like to make
467 a few points.  There is absolutly no connection between any Byte Shop any 
468 where and BYTE Magazine.  There is absolutly no connection between the 
469 local Byte Shops and Byte Shops in other cities.  Also, say what you will
470 about the way they do business, but you must admit that they are still in
471 business after six plus years. (the path to success is paved with the star-
472 ving bodies of salesmen....) Yes, the salesmen are on commission. Yes they
473 take one look at you and think !SALE! or [waste of time].  If you where on 
474 this merry-go-round, you would think that way too.  And yes, it gripes me 
475 like hell to be treated like a dummy in a building I worked in for five 
476 years.
477      If you think you can do better, try it.  I am.
478           
479                                         A Former Inmate.
480 
481 ***************************************************************************
482 Two comments:
483 1) packaging at Radio Shack -- the reason for the plasic
484 packaging is to give the customer a fresh product,
485 not a shop-worn and defective item. Also handling just one low-
486 cost item is very expensive in terms of manpower and many customers
487 prefer self-service.
488 Like it or not, I'm afraid that the ecomomics of the situation dictate that
489 the packaging will continue.
490 
491 2)The Byte Shops -- we recently did business with a Byte Shop and also
492 with a Business Machine retailer. I can garantee you that the Byte Shops do
493 NOT!!!
494 know how to deal with business people. The item we purchased from the business
495 machine people was half the price of the item from the Byte Shop, yet we 
496 got (and continue to get) 10 times the service -- the Byte Shop's idea of 
497 a quick respons is six months (if you call them every day).
498 The Business Machine people (REMTEK) realize that if the equipment works
499 for us, that we will return and buy more and more product!!!!!!!!
500 The Byte Shop is geared for the first-time sucker and the cornered market.
501 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
502 Having only been in a B.S. twice (I gave them a second chance),
503 I can only agree with the many adverse comments.  However,
504 they must be doing SOMETHING right (God only knows what!),
505 or they wouldn't still be in business.
506 .............................................................
507 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
508 Some helpful? info for computerists:
509 1 Before you spend a red cent, read and investigate all the equipment info
510 you can get your hands on.
511 2 Don't expect any salesperson to be able to answer your questions above the
512 "How much is it"!
513 3 Find a knoweledgesble technician to answer your inquiries.
514 4 Pay him/her if necessary, that is money well spent.
515 5 Continue to complain any way you can, pass the word to others, if we all do
516 this I'm sure the message will come through loud and clear!
517 6 When in a store with a modem set up, dial this # try to have the person there
518 read the entire ramblings from list down!
519 
520 Hope all you out there are up to this challange.
521 
522      signed:
523 Been there and back.
524 
525 
526 ****************************************************************
527 I would do the last one, except I plan never to enter another
528 BYTE SHOP again (If I can help it.)
529 
530 
531 			DBBS SYSOP
532 			**** *****
533 
534 Well Radio Shack sure gets a lot of attention. I have been a customer
535 of Radio Shacks for over 15 years. Let me tell you they are a hell
536 of alot better at sales and follow through than any one else I
537 have dealt with. A majority of the sales people DO know more than how
538 to turn the stereo on, as was so eliquently stated before. The problem
539 with people who complain is thaty they only remember the bad things, not
540 the good things. They don't remember when they needed that crazy
541 part at 8:00 PM, and could run over to the local RS and get in
542 and out in a couple minutes. This has happened to me more than once, and
543 I thank heaven for RS when I make one of those desparation runs. Oh sure
544 there are bad stores, but every large family has bad eggs. Tandy has
545 a cleaner nest than most other corporations. I go to RS all the time,
546 and I have bought everything from computers to intercomes to power supply
547 parts to transistors to books. I have never been sorry I bought anything
548 from them. I have never seen this "poor quality" stuff some poor misguided
549 soul yelled about. If enything ever went wrong with something, a
550 run down to the store would yield me a replacement, or a quick return
551 on my original. I make friends with the local RS manager, treat him like
552 a human being, and he returns the favor. Bread cast apon the water returns
553 tenfold...The local manager has done me all kinds of favors, including
554 taking personal time to run something from another store, and special
555 order parts for me. It is a good business relationship. People who gripe
556 about RS are a dime a dozen. They know what they are doing, obviously.
557 ############################################^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^To the above:
558 Some people cast their bread upon the water and it comes back Chocolate cake
559 I usually cast mine and it comes back soggy! I'm probably not alone.
560 TO THE ABOVE...
561 MAYBE YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO CAST RIGHT. GOD HELPS THOSE WHO HELPS THEMSELVES.
562 MAYBE I DO IT RIGHT
563 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^"GOD" has nothing to do with anything.  You seem to forget
564 that you are dealing with 'human beings'  If god had invented computers there
565 would be linefeeds, godubs, mid$'s etc all over the bible.
566 
567 Also to the guy above who has such good raport with the R/S manager:  Every
568 time I enter one of their stores there's some new person there.  Raleigh Hills
569 and Beaverton are the two that I have to use mostly, therefor 
570 I have never had the same person assist me unless I have had to make more than
571 one trip in a days time.
572 /////////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
573 Some while back I bought a voltmeter from RADIO SHACK, one of their
574 digital ones. It looks cheap, oit feels cheap, the instruction book
575 is cheap. In fact, it has only one advantage: it works. It cost less
576 than anything I could buy here in Portland somewhere else, too.
577 I know I could get a better deal mailorder, but have you ever tried to
578 test something before you buy it mailorder? I did not pay sales tax, or 
579 postage, either. RS has a good policy on defective stuff, too, with
580 immediate exchange. (Of course, there is a lot of defective stuff)
581 Yes, the bubble package 	IS	 cheaper. The case of loose
582 parts sounds better,but the handling cost is the pits, and in any case
583 it only works if you have well trained people using it. Bubbles can be 
584 handled by the public, try that with a bin of loose parts.
585 Actually, though, the parts are mostly a service. The money is in 
586 bigger things, like stereos.
587 
588 As for information, or instructions, etc.: anybody who goes to a store
589 for info should pay for it, before hand. The store pays their people
590 by the hour, you should too. This is one reason it costs more to buy
591 retail, you are paying for the clerks. Actually, it's worth it. 
592 If you know what you are doing, why go in there in the first place?
593 Buy it mail order. Don't expect any service from the mail order people,
594 though, or guarantees, or help when it doesn't work, or....
595 Of course you may not get any at the store, but then just don't buy
596 it there. I've had good luck with the Computerland in Tigard, poor
597 luck at their store downtown, and very poor luck with the Portland
598 Byte shop. Radio Shack has by far the best computer store service.
599 Has anyone dealt with C2E or some of the others?
600 
601 There is also a lot of good stuff available through the office supply
602 stores.
603 ............................
604 I can't resist putting in my 2 cents worth (after inflation).  You can 
605 complain a lot about the parts situation at RS, but are they really
606 any different than the other outfits?  You used to be able to go to 
607 places like Portland Radio and get 1 resistor and 1 diode (and they
608 weren't cheap even then.)  Now they have blister packs from James, etc.
609 that are probably done by the same outfit that does RS's, except they
610 usually cost more but often have more esoteric parts that RS doesn't
611 have.
612   I'm thankful for the RS store a mile away that is open on Sunday
613 afternoon.  Where else can you get a 1 Kv diode on the Sabbath?
614     I buy a lot of commercial electronic equipment, mostly from 
615 suppliers I have never met.  The instances of problems are rare.
616 The only hassle is the time involved in getting a DOA unit repaired.
617 If you buy a modem from Rush Drake here in town, they will very
618 rapidly exchange a DOA for a new unit, no questions.  But don't
619 expect the price to be cheap.  Nothing is free!  If you get a
620 comparable unit from North Supply for a rock bottom price, heaven
621 help you if it doesn't work the first time.  They forget you 
622 exist and tell you to talk to the manufacturer directly (which
623 they really didn't want you to do when you bought the thing.)  And
624 nothing is so rare a day when they send you a return authorization
625 for the phone you got in Lime Green instead of Ivory!  (We have
626 8 phones that have waited for over 2 years!!!!!!)
627     There are a whole raft of new small suppliers of computer stuff
628 that advertise in the classifieds and on the BBS's.  Most of them
629 cant hold your hand but give you a good deal.....{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan
                                                                                         