

#: 6927 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    24-Sep-90  16:31:32
Sb: #Atari ST
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X)

Bud -

Question on Minix & the ST: is the ST version also restricted to a 64K process
space (I believe the PC version of Minix was)? If yes, then OS9 does provide a
clear advantage. If no, then both are probably a slick solution, as there is
active development in both camps.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7067 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    30-Sep-90  10:07:40
Sb: #6927-#Atari ST
Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

68000 Minix isn't restricted to a 64k process space.  Actually, 8086 Minix has
a 64K instruction space and a 64K data space in its latest incarnation (I
believe).  Unfortunately, since the ST doesn't have hardware memory management,
and Minix C doesn't produce PIC, so they have to go through all sorts of
gyrations to relocate programs in memories and do context switches.  Anyhow,
Minix is a lot cheaper than OS-9, which means a lot to a hobbyist.  For
commercial or industrial applications, OS-9 wins hands down.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7094 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    01-Oct-90  15:50:36
Sb: #7067-#Atari ST
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X)

Bud -

Good info. Sounds like early versions of BSD stuff (2.1 64K I&D spaces).. Too
bad about the non-position independence.. is it reentrant at least?

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7229 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    06-Oct-90  12:41:26
Sb: #7094-#Atari ST
Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

'Tis reentrant.  The kernel is mostly C.

wrh

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7246 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    08-Oct-90  09:29:07
Sb: #7229-#Atari ST
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bud Hamblen 72466,256 (X)

Bud -

Are you saying that it's reentrant by virtue of the fact that it's written in
C, or were those two separate pieces of info? C is not inherently reentrant...
the compiler must be written to support it.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7335 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    13-Oct-90  12:54:16
Sb: #7246-Atari ST
Fm: Bud Hamblen 72466,256
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

I'm saying it's reentrant because it is the kernel of a multi-tasking operating
system and pretty well _has_ to be reentrant.

  The kernel is reentrant.
 The kernel is written in C.
 Therefore, the C compiler can produce reentrant code.

wrh

#: 6975 S4/MIDI and Music
    25-Sep-90  22:34:53
Sb: #6704-#midi help
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Lester,

Well, we COULD be delivering MM/1s by now, but we have FCC approval to worry
our heads about. Things look good in that domain though, and we should be in
real good shape by the fest.

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7053 S4/MIDI and Music
    29-Sep-90  12:39:42
Sb: #6975-#midi help
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

I got the info about the MM/1s in the mail recently--looks great! I will be
watching your progress with considerable interest!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7083 S4/MIDI and Music
    30-Sep-90  19:29:33
Sb: #7053-#midi help
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Lester,

Thanks for the kind words! Do keep up with us! And give a call, if you like! We
have a big MIDI contingent gearing up.

Paul

"Contingent" means buch of eager developers.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7284 S4/MIDI and Music
    11-Oct-90  00:54:15
Sb: #7083-#midi help
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul, a "bunch" of eager MIDI developers? Sounds rather interesting. I am
beginning to see that the IBM MIDI market is already pretty saturated and just
might be interested in jumping on your bandwagon. What is up?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7315 S4/MIDI and Music
    12-Oct-90  23:28:30
Sb: #7284-#midi help
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Lester,

Actually, the IBM MIDI market is NOT saturated if you discount all the MEDIOCRE
stuff they have!!

I suggest you give a call to the DC IMS office at 202 232 4246 sometime. We can
talk MIDI then!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7344 S4/MIDI and Music
    13-Oct-90  15:20:10
Sb: #7315-#midi help
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul, what hours for the DC IMS office (and what do those letters stand for)? I
suppose one person's definition of mediocre differs from another. I see a lot
of expensive sequencers ($100-500) out there. I've tried selling a PC version
of Lyra and everyone expects to have real time recording and score printing as
well for only $49.95. An impossible situation for a developer!

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7357 S4/MIDI and Music
    14-Oct-90  09:58:34
Sb: #7344-#midi help
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Lester,

Nice to see you back!

IMS stands for Interactive Media Systems ... with their offices in Washington,
DC.

Hope you and Paul can get together on a project. Your talents would be a
welcomed addition to the growing list of software developers for the MM/1.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7372 S4/MIDI and Music
    14-Oct-90  23:50:29
Sb: #7357-midi help
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Hey Steve! I haven't been gone--just not a whole lot of activity on this sig
until lately! I talked to Paul yesterday and things sound interesting. I'm
keeping my ears to the ground!

#: 7423 S4/MIDI and Music
    16-Oct-90  17:27:20
Sb: #7344-#midi help
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Lester,

Well, if they want real time recording, give it to them and charge! Mayabe you
could have a $49.95 version that omits that feature, but have a Lyra Plus that
you can get as a trade-in for $49.95 extra.

IMS stands for Interactive Media Systems, Inc.

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7446 S4/MIDI and Music
    16-Oct-90  21:19:36
Sb: #7423-#midi help
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul, good idea (about making real time recording an extra)! The only problem
is that the Lyra file format does not lend itself well to that type of data.
Lyra expects a highly structured single note per track format. While you could
force fit real time stuff to that format, the result would be difficult to
edit.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7482 S4/MIDI and Music
    17-Oct-90  21:47:05
Sb: #7446-midi help
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Lester,

Well, I certainly did not anticipate that such a design would be EASY! It
sounds as though your Lyra format is pretty clean and simple, and real time
recording is NEVER that!

Paul



#: 7004 S3/Languages
    26-Sep-90  18:11:52
Sb: #apl
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: all

   For those of you who wish to try out apl, recently converted and uploaded by
Greg Morse, I uploaded a font and startup file for use with the coco3.  Thanks,
Greg; and thanks to Mike Haaland for the mvcanvas system that helped out also.
   Missing are the characters for compression and expansion functions, missing
from my apl textbook.  Can someone help out here?
   Thanks,
     tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7029 S3/Languages
    27-Sep-90  17:45:46
Sb: #7004-#apl
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

        Where is Greg's APL available ? Sounds interesting.
                               Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7090 S3/Languages
    01-Oct-90  06:42:01
Sb: #7029-#apl
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Paul,
    Its in DL3, Languages.  One file is the docs and executable, and the other
is source code, in assembly.
    tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7099 S3/Languages
    01-Oct-90  17:01:00
Sb: #7090-#apl
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

   Thanks,
           I found IAPL and started playing around with it. Very
       different, not that I understand it.
                             Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7198 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  06:37:38
Sb: #7099-#apl
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

It takes a while to get used to apl.  A text book is essential, then try out
some of the exercises you see there.
   tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7212 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  21:21:37
Sb: #7198-#apl
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

    If I were to buy one textbook for starts, what would you recommend?
      Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7247 S3/Languages
    08-Oct-90  10:16:18
Sb: #7212-#apl
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

Paul,
    I couldn't recommend the one text I have.  It's old, and as I just recently
discovered, is quite incomplete.  See if Greg Morse has any current texts.
   Sorry for the negative response, but I don't want to do you a diservice.
    tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7260 S3/Languages
    09-Oct-90  17:25:47
Sb: #7247-apl
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

     A negative response is still a response, thanks.

#: 7032 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Sep-90  19:15:04
Sb: #MM/1 Software
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)


Paul,

What software beyond Professional OSK will come with the MM/1?

Thanks, -J



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7037 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Sep-90  19:44:33
Sb: #7032-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Jay,

You may wish to browse the transcript of the MM/1 conference Paul held a while
back. He mentions several software item that will be available.

Tho .. enough time has past that may be Paul should update us ....Paul???

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7187 S15/Hot Topics
    04-Oct-90  22:33:47
Sb: #7037-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Steve,

We've got a few things planned to announce at the Fest. Plus, there are a few
things we can't announce yet. One of them is a multimedia thingie from the
Amiga world.

Some things I CAN mention: an IFF viewer for OS-9, using the same IFF specs
used in CD-I as far as possible on the MM/1. Also, an LHARC dearcing program
that lets you get Amiga sound and graphics files. Lessee, now we have Tetris on
the MM/1, as well as Zack Sessions' Solitaire game, and the maze program here.

There's some other stuff, too, but I gotta run!

Paul

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7188 S15/Hot Topics
    04-Oct-90  22:42:40
Sb: #7187-MM/1 Software
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Sounds like things are humming along! Keep us posted.

Stevev

#: 7222 S15/Hot Topics
    06-Oct-90  00:33:46
Sb: #7187-#MM/1 Software
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Hi Paul... I just called and ordered my MM/1 Extended System. This system
includes the second board, right? How much memory will fit on this board? How
much would it cost me to bump the machine up to 3 meg? Any XT type keyboard is
ok? Will any PC style mouse work (Logitech, Microsoft, etc)? How is FCC
certification coming? When I phoned, the operator told me a couple days more.
Is this true, or are we looking at a few months more? After you get FCC
approval, you'll start producing and shipping - how many people are in line
ahead of me? Enough questions for ya yet?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7228 S15/Hot Topics
    06-Oct-90  11:08:15
Sb: #7222-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen;

  If I'm reading things right, you can have 1Meg, 3Meg or 9Meg depending
on whether you use 1 or 4M SIMMS.  One bank of memory on the MB, and
2 SIMM slots on the I/O board would give you the above combos of memory.

  For reference, the local electronics supermart here (Fry's) has these latest
prices :
  
  1Meg x 8 80ns SIMMS - $49
  4Meg x 8 80ns SIMMS - $295 (and dropping)
  101 key Atex keyboard - $49
  Logictech serial mouse - $79
  Serial mice and trackballs from $49 to $129, depending.

 ...Jim



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7230 S15/Hot Topics
    06-Oct-90  22:30:49
Sb: #7228-MM/1 Software
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Jim Peasley 72726,1153 (X)

Hi Jim... Thanks for the info. Mem prices aren't as bad as they were for a
while there.

#: 7314 S15/Hot Topics
    12-Oct-90  23:27:16
Sb: #7222-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Glen,

Second board is included, memory upgrade around $160, tested and guaranteed. XT
keyboards OK. PC Style powered serial mouse needed, ala Logitech. Some
Microsoft mice may not work, I understand. FCC is fine. the LABportion is only
a few days more, and then there is the INTERMINABLE paperwork delay (read,
three weeks). We've got enough to do in the meantime.

We have many people ahead of you. I fully expect to be busy until February with
our orders, although people who have put down deposits get first dibs.

Paul

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7326 S15/Hot Topics
    13-Oct-90  09:02:55
Sb: #7314-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul,

Can you give us a comprehensive software list with some names on it?  I'd
really appreciate it!

Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7422 S15/Hot Topics
    16-Oct-90  17:25:37
Sb: #7326-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Colin,

SOON! The software list will come out right before the software comes out.

Strategic planning and avoidance of Murphyism are the reasons for the delay in
releasing info.

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7443 S15/Hot Topics
    16-Oct-90  20:43:40
Sb: #7422-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Grrrr.  I understand, but patience isn't one of my better traits!

BTW, there is an ongoing discussion on UUCP news about the MM/1 on the

Amiga newsgroup.  Somebody posted that a friend had shown them some specs on a
new computer and he described the MM/1.  Another guy proceeded to tell him he
was 'stupid' because the 68070 doesn't exist, etc.  Other users then corrected
HIM and gave some info on the MM/1.  It's a very interesting conversation.  Too
bad my school's computer won't allow posting, or I'd inform them all!

  Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7481 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  21:45:56
Sb: #7443-MM/1 Software
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Colin,

Somebody at Motorola told me that someone else at Motorola was upset at
Signetics' choice of 68070 as the name of their chip! As you have seen, it
causes some confusion.

If you would like some extra brochures, just give a call at 202 232 4246!

Paul

#: 7369 S15/Hot Topics
    14-Oct-90  23:47:39
Sb: #7314-#MM/1 Software
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Hi Paul... Thanks for the reply. I guess I should phone and make sure the extra
memory is installed before my system is shipped? By the sounds of it, there's
no rush, though. Could be months before I see one, I guess?



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7424 S15/Hot Topics
    16-Oct-90  17:30:26
Sb: #7369-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Not months! I'd say about a month before we really slosh through the
backorders. We should be shipping withing a couple of weeks of FCC approval.

Actually, I think that the memory upgrade is something you COULD do yourself.
If WE do it, you'll get a good price and a warranty on the part. Just let us
know through a letter to IMS, 238 Catawba, Davidson NC 28036.

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7550 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  01:06:36
Sb: #7424-MM/1 Software
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Hi Paul... A month! Sounds much better. I'll call and make sure the mem is
installed before shipping. I don't have much spare time to chase around looking
for memory prices. Got a company to run, ya know...

#: 7039 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Sep-90  21:11:37
Sb: #Rdisk
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - you'll have to add /d2 to your bootfile.  That would require using
config or os9gen.  How many disk drives do you have?  It'll be pretty easy with
two.  Let us know.

Loading in system modules (device descriptors, drivers) after boot is a bad
idea on the coco because it allocates "blocks" of memory 8K at a time. So even
loading one little 50-byte descriptor consumes over 8000 bytes in the system's
64K map.  This lowers the number of processes and windows that you can have
going at one time, and can also easily prevent programs like GShell from being
able to look at the modules it wants to.

Ummm. This gets a little complicated, but if you simply place all devices you
intend to use in your bootfile, you'll avoid many strange things <grin>.
 best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7078 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    30-Sep-90  18:03:42
Sb: #7039-#Rdisk
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Well, I have 3 disk drives, 35 tracks each.  One is a 5-1/4", the other two are
3" Amdek drives in a single package, each configured as 35 tracks; the 5-1/4"
is /d0, the others, /d1, & /d2.  I found out that editing 
/d0/modules/bootlist.mv  to contain  d2_35s.dd  module doesn't work.  So I've
got a bit of homework to do, make some mistakes, and learn sumpin' in the
process.   -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7089 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Oct-90  00:15:07
Sb: #7078-#Rdisk
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - ah, the old Amdek drives!  Almost got some way back when.

After you added d2_35s.dd to your "bootlist.mv" file, did you then use os9gen? 
Have you ever used os9gen or config? (asking to find out which one you feel
more comfortable with, if either)

Yah on the mistakes... they're the best teachers <grin>!

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7179 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Oct-90  17:33:41
Sb: #7089-#Rdisk
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Well, I did it!  I got /d2 to work from the MV screen.  Had to edit BUILDMV so
that d2_35S.DD got copied.  Made a new mv #2 disk and it worked out fine.  If I
am catching on to what is happening, buildmv copies selected files already in
memory from the initial OS9 system disk.  Then it generates a bootable OS9 type
procedure on track 34 using OS9GEN and creates a bootlist.mv besides.  This is
necessary because there cannot be any uncontiguous sectors during the mv boot
which would occur if one tried to add a module to a previously made boot disk
as I tried to do initially.   -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7189 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Oct-90  23:37:07
Sb: #7179-Rdisk
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - sounds like you've got it to me!  I do know that the Save command is
hidden in with another command on the MV disk, so it sounds right.

Yep, the os9boot must be contiguous, as there is no RBF manager around when you
boot <grin>, and the simple Boot module disk driver knows only to get
sequential sectors.  And as you said, the main os9p1/boot/rel  code is placed
on track 34 (since we don't have it in ROM).

You're rocking now! <grin>  thx for the update - kev

#: 7180 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Oct-90  17:38:15
Sb: #7089-#Rdisk
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

ps:  what is the module which is loaded when first the shell command is
selected from the MV menu?  I believe I'd want to have this loaded
automatically on boot-up since I select that option straight-away.  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7190 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Oct-90  23:38:49
Sb: #7180-Rdisk
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - hmmm.  I can't think of what that could be.  Doesn't seem like there'd
need to be anything loaded to run the shell menu item.

So got me!  Perhaps an mdir would show you what got loaded?

#: 7049 S3/Languages
    28-Sep-90  23:27:55
Sb: #APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: TOM, 70215,1130 (X)

Tom - You are first again. I recall years ago you were one of the first if not
the first people to use XCOM9, now you are the first that I know of to do
anything with the IAPL!. I would like to enclose your fonts on the disk I send
to the international society in the UK. Is that ok? also where are these files?
also did you need to modify the source? if not how did you handle underlined
characters? In answer to your question I thought that table 4.1 in the docs gav
all the char mappings. You might also check the vt220.txt file in dl6 to see if
that answers the question. else i will get back to you <Greg Morse>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7091 S3/Languages
    01-Oct-90  06:48:52
Sb: #7049-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Hi Greg,
    Sure, enclose the fonts in your distribution.  There was no need to change
the source to iapl;  I mapped the lower case coco3 font, as well as the other
characters such as # to their apl versions.   I did nothing with the underline;
Should I have?  I'll have to use the system more to find out what's going on. 
The problem I had with compression and expansion was not Table 4.1, but what
does the apl character look like.  I'll check  vt220.txt file to get that. 
Thanks.   My old apl textbook made no mention of those two functions.
   Thanks,
      tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7105 S3/Languages
    01-Oct-90  22:09:52
Sb: #7091-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

Tom - upon re-reading the vt220 font file does not refer to compression and
expansion, but to slash} and slash bar etc. anyway previous info should have
defined this for you. Yes there may be aproblem with the coco underlined chars.
These chars are not needed by IAPL but they are nice to have for completeness.
The vt220 unfortunately does not have 128 downloadable chars, only 94.
therefore I had to map the apl char as in #AV to a vt220 version, so the hex
value of say a quad internal to the pgm is not the same as the one sent to the
vt220. That should not present a problem for cocos if your font just uses the
vt220 char not the internal one. The problem comes in the underlined chars.
since I didn't ha}ive room for 128 apl chars in a 94 char downloadable font, i
omitted the undelined ones. when IAPL/os9 wishes to output an underlined char
it outputs a "set underline mode" cmd string, then the normal char, then the
"set normal mode" cmd string. This is not compatible with a coco i expect. The
best thing would be for you to upload to me a defn of the font you have created
similar to table 4.1 but giving the hex value you use, then I can incorporate
the font into the pgm itself. (PS do you have the #AV vector map in your
textbook?) If not I will upload to you by mail. Then we can do it right {_for
the coco. <greg morse>

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7130 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  17:48:54
Sb: #7105-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

       The APL fonts look good; the only thing I found annoying
    was running the demos that came with IAPL with the fonts. The
    demos have lowercase letters in them that are meant to stay
    letters. How hard would it be to retain the ASCII lowercase
    codes and put the special APL characters on the coco ALT keys?
    Just curious.
                                      Paul



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7218 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  23:31:12
Sb: #7130-APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Paul Rinear 73757,1413 (X)

in the vt220 you can have both on output, since I expanded the vt220 char set
by 94 chars (total=128+94). on input you have to hit the ^T (or the equivalent
FK on the coco) to cause lower case letters to be treated as text rather than
apl input. I dont know what the coco does. I thought that Tom said he used the
coco lower csase font to map apl chars, in which case hitting ^T will get you
one or the other but not both. Try it and let me know. please. <greg morse>

#: 7199 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  06:44:50
Sb: #7105-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg,
   let me digest your message.  I'll show you my character set map later, but
it is simply a mapping of table 4.1 to the coco fonts.  By the way, your
definition of the compression and expansion characters was sufficient for me to
complete the table 4.1 to coco3 mapping.  It seems by text was mid 70's
vintage, based on apl/360 (!) and lacked two of the iapl functions. By playing
around, it was easy to discern what the performed.   I think the underlined
mode is not completely necessary, but you're right; for complete ness it should
be included.
   tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7219 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  23:33:51
Sb: #7199-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

Tom - ok will wait for reply. BTW i have found a real dearth of apl books here.
Judging from the IAPL newsletter I get the situation in england is MUCH better.
I am not much of apl pgmer myself. and here I was with this obsolete textbook
trying to test out my interpreter. yech! <greg morse>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7248 S3/Languages
    08-Oct-90  10:18:49
Sb: #7219-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg,
     According to the coco os9 manual, underlining is turned on by $1f22 and
off by $1f23.   Did you imply that all I have to do is change a constant string
in iapl to make it coco compatible?
   tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7340 S3/Languages
    13-Oct-90  14:48:00
Sb: #7248-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

If so then yes. I have the strings}i null terminated so you would make
underline a 3 char string. look at offset $FD for the normal string
($9B,$30,$6D in vt220, and at offset $105 for $9B,$34,$6D for underline. <greg>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7379 S3/Languages
    15-Oct-90  09:31:59
Sb: #7340-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg,
   That should be easy enough, (to make iapl underlining work with the coco3).
Thanks.  It looks like I couldn't reassemble the package anyhow because I don't
have a macro-assembler.  Manually expanding is out of the question.  I did that
once, and am convinced I never want to again.
   tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7390 S3/Languages
    15-Oct-90  21:08:15
Sb: #7379-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

OK TOM. Maube the easiest thing is for me to re-assemble it. thats $1f22 for
und line ON and $1f23 for OFF? <greg>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7417 S3/Languages
    16-Oct-90  12:09:19
Sb: #7390-#APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg,
   NO, no, nein, non, tidak!  Lets not have two of that monster floating
around!  I think I can just put together a debug patch file, or ipatch to
customize it for cocoists.  Much cheaper in terms of storage.  Thanks anyway. 
Whatever I put together will be shared with the community of course.
      tom n

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7441 S3/Languages
    16-Oct-90  20:16:16
Sb: #7417-APL FONT FOR COCO
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Tom Napolitano 70215,1130 (X)

"Tidak"? OK i could probably put a single "machine type" byte in the pgm and
execute slightly different code, but having a patch file is probably even
easier. BTW where do they keep "modpatch" on this sig? I have tried a "dir
mod*.*" on most dl's with no luck. only modpat.txt in the coco dl. <greg>

#: 7059 S3/Languages
    29-Sep-90  22:41:53
Sb: #c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: all

 Hey,anyone been having any problems with the getime call in C lately?
 I have.Does anyone know how to get seconds from it?
 I'm trying to write a random number generator and all I get is 0.
       can anyone help me?

         just wondering,
         ANDY T.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7063 S3/Languages
    29-Sep-90  23:29:53
Sb: #7059-#c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

getime() works fine for me. Seconds are in the t_second field as defined in the
sgtbuf in time.h.

I'm wondering. Why write a random number generator when we already have one
inthe Krieder lib?

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7074 S3/Languages
    30-Sep-90  17:41:02
Sb: #7063-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

 Krieder lib? you mean on cis? Well I guess I've got to look before I torture
myself like that<smile>.thanks Zack!

          ANDY T.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7075 S3/Languages
    30-Sep-90  17:44:55
Sb: #7074-#c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Check the Utilities lib (I think) for a file called clib.ar. Carl Krieder wrote
a replacement library for the C Compiler which includes several functions which
should have been in the original.

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7080 S3/Languages
    30-Sep-90  19:14:03
Sb: #7075-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

ZACK,
      Me again,what parameters do I call it with?  HELP!
       ANDY T.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7087 S3/Languages
    30-Sep-90  21:53:12
Sb: #7080-#c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

You're talking about the rand.c file, right? I don't know, I haven't looked at
it. As I mentioned in a previous message, what you found is not what I was
talking about. Apparently what you found is a program (maybe?) which generates
random numbers? Does it have a main() function or a rand() function?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7115 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  00:43:09
Sb: #7087-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

 oh,it's rand() all right, is there any way i can get that clib file with
CTERM?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7126 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  16:12:22
Sb: #7115-#c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

I am unfamiliar with CTERM. I assume this is the program you mentioned which
supports only ASCII downloads. If so, then you can't download clib.ar.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7160 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  17:55:41
Sb: #7126-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

 well, if you are unfamilliar with CTERM look it up in library 7:telecom

 after you look at it tell me if you suggest any freeware that i can download
that does any better.
      ANDY

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7171 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  22:17:11
Sb: #7160-#c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

I already have at least 5 different OS9 based term programs and really don't
have any reason (or time, sorry) to look at any others. Do you have an RS232
interface? If so I would suggest OSTerm. If it's not in the libs, I'll be happy
to upload it.

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7181 S3/Languages
    04-Oct-90  19:24:33
Sb: #7171-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

 ZACK,
    yes I run off of a RS-rs232 program pack,osterm?don't think I've seen that
one here (the limited time i've been here).
 If i need to get it from you do you garantee there's no VIRUS in it (grin).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7184 S3/Languages
    04-Oct-90  21:12:23
Sb: #7181-#c_problem
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Well, let's put it this way--the author of OSTerm has done various other
worthwhile utilities for OS-9/6809 (and I hope he will do some OS-9/68K stuff,
too), and they all seem to work well.  I think I'd trust him.  (In fact, I
do--at least once a day, when I use OSTerm.)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7208 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  17:51:27
Sb: #7184-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

 o.k. so if I need it (yes),and if it isn't here (if it is its hiding) might i
suggest the person that uploads it uploads a NON-ar version?

      extreamly curious,
      ANDY T.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7240 S3/Languages
    07-Oct-90  21:53:58
Sb: #7208-c_problem
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

You could suggest that, but I would guess that you wouldn't get far with that
suggestion.  As the long-ago poster of a package that required about half a
dozen or so files, I know first-hand that folks don't much appreciate the
hassle of having to download that much stuff, especially when it can be
logically grouped together as need be.  (For that matter, one could create and
feed to AR a tar file, which would let one preserve directory structure in the
stuff to be uncrated.)  You'll be much better off downloading the AR utility.

#: 7097 S3/Languages
    01-Oct-90  16:04:30
Sb: #7059-#c_problem
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Andy -

Show us your code segment, and we'll be able to provide more specific help.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7116 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  00:55:06
Sb: #7097-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)



 Well Pete,
  I already foolishly erased the part I was having problems with,but,I think
 I have a copy somewhere,hmmm,no I guess not,well, it went something like-

 struct sgtbuf *buffer;
 main()
 {
 int ti;
 getime(buffer);
 ti
 ti=atoi(buffer.t_second);
 printf("   %u",ti);
 }

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7127 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  16:14:11
Sb: #7116-c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

You are declaring only a pointer to sgtbuf. You need to declare the structure
itself and then pass it's address, ie,

struct sgtbuf buffer;
getime(&buffer);

Zack

#: 7131 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  17:51:32
Sb: #7116-#c_problem
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Andy -

Couple of things poke me in the eye....

struct sgtbuf *buffer - declares a pointer to a structure of type sgtbuf...
BUT... where is the storage for it? Also, how does the pointer get initialized
to point to it.

Perhaps you'd better try something like:

 struct sgtbuf buffer, *bp;
 bp = &buffer;


Also - when using pointers to structures, you need to use the '->' connector
vice the '.'. Example:

  buffer->t_sec (or whatever)...

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7161 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  18:07:41
Sb: #7131-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

(ahem),hey guys i don't know nut'n i just try to survive with what i'm told.
the reason i did "buffer.t_second" was thats the way it was structured in the
header file,and yes all i want out of getime is the seconds.

             geting REALLY confused,
                 ANDY T

 p.s. anyone want to continue this conversation on delphi?  I just got an
account (thib).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7168 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  20:52:51
Sb: #7161-#c_problem
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Andy -

Point is this:

If you're going to access stucture members using a pointer (which you were
apparently trying to do), you must use the construct:

   structure_pointer->structure_element

If you're wheeling directly off of the name of the structure:

   structure_name.structure_element.

Pete

P.S. A good text on C is the "C Primer Plus" by the Waite Group. Easy reading &
informative, lots of examples, and a sense of humor as well.

P.S.S. DELPHI? "Fightin' words" here (grin).. I help administrate this forum...

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7182 S3/Languages
    04-Oct-90  19:36:26
Sb: #7168-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Pete,
     huh?,english please.
   i don't think my compiler manual is wrong( ? ),it says to declare it as a
pointer("struct sgtbuf *buffer").(p.3-35).
       I've got two books on C ,C programming guide 2nd Edition (QUE).


       to that last post script yes I said (shhh)delphi,you must admit 20 hours
for 20 hours is the least expensive.(sorry,grin).

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7185 S3/Languages
    04-Oct-90  21:23:22
Sb: #7182-#c_problem
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

OK--your compiler manual is *not* wrong.  Neither is Pete.

This isn't anything like "light is a wave *and* a particle" or even "Certs is a
candy mint and a breath mint."  Here's the deal:

The typical compiler manual shows you what would be the first part of a formal
declaration of the function (or what it would be if it were a function, since
sometimes it's really a macro).  What that shows you is the type of the actual
parameter you should pass.

Now, in your invocation of the function, you passed it a variable that indeed
has the correct type, i.e. pointer to struct sgtbuf.  However, the *value* that
you passed is not correct, because it is not in fact the address of a struct
sgtbuf.

Analogy: you call (invoke :-) a sign painter, who comes to your house and asks
where the sign to be painted is, i.e. he wants a pointer to the sign you want
painted.  What you did in your invocation is the moral equivalent of pointing
into empty space, that is it was a response of the correct type (pointer to a
sign) but with an invalid value (because there was in fact no sign where you
pointed).

What Pete suggests is analogous to the following: before you call the painter,
you build an (unpainted) sign.  (In C, you'd declare a struct sgtbuf, "struct
sgtbuf buf;".)  When you call the painter, and he asks you to point to the sign
to be painted, point at the sign you built. (In C, pass getime() the address of
the structure you declared: "getime(&buf);".)

This is admittedly a dumb analogy, but it's the best I could do on shorot --er,
short--notice, while the CIS $$$ meter is ticking. <grin>  I hope it helps to
show what's going on.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7191 S3/Languages
    04-Oct-90  23:40:10
Sb: #7185-c_problem
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

That was _English_ ??? <big grin>  See you at the fest!

#: 7202 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  11:42:38
Sb: #7182-#c_problem
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Andy -

Not that it necessarily is, but NEVER assume a manual to be Gospel. Too many
folks have wasted countless debugging hours on assumptions like that.

As far as "English please" goes.... I gave you the way to solve your
programming

problem in normal C terms. If you find those vague, then you may want to pick
up a text on C. I highly reccommend the "C Primer Plus" by the Waite group.

As far as your problem goes, I'll make one more attempt.

Gettime() requires a pointer to a structure. Just because you have a pointer,
doesn't get you anything. You need something for it to POINT TO. In this case,
you must  either manually declare a structure to hold the time data, or if it's
already available in a '.h' file (i.e. time.h), then make sure to include that
file.

If you want top reference the time data using the pointer, you must use the
approach:

   pointer->data_element;

If you want to access the time data using the name of the structure instead,
you need to use:

   structname.data_element;

Pete

P.S. Please learn to accept help in a more gracious fashion, else you'll find
people less than willing to take the time to help you with your problem.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7207 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  17:28:01
Sb: #7202-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

sorry guys,
  I really didn't mean to be rude,and i really appreciate any and all help I
get(including all suggestions)but this one C problem has been
 about a year now and I don't seem to be getting any closer than I was before.
 as for the book,well,I might want to buy it if it explains pointers a little
better than the one I have.


p.s. I just got around to trying both suggestions I received and no go,if
anyone would like to help me further I would still apreciate(and


p.s.s (or psst) hey ,you ,wanna see a listing?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7209 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  18:03:26
Sb: #7207-c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

er,sorry again, that last part should read "(and welcome)"

     now that I've read all the help I'm getting around here in one sitting
 I think it's starting to sink in. but just to make sure I'm correct I'm
 right, I will leave and try it.
       thanks for being here,
         andy

#: 7244 S3/Languages
    08-Oct-90  09:18:00
Sb: #7207-c_problem
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Andy -

Happy to help... let's see the listing.

Pete

#: 7119 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  01:37:51
Sb: #c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

does anyone have a program to change an .ar file?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7128 S3/Languages
    02-Oct-90  16:14:53
Sb: #7119-#c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Change an ar file? Don't follow you.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7162 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  18:12:24
Sb: #7128-#c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

with that question i'm assuming that files with ".ar" have a protocall i
wouldn't be able to use unless i had a program to convert it back.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7172 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  22:20:28
Sb: #7162-c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300 (X)

Files with an ".ar" extension is an archive file archived with the ar utility,
available for downloading in the Utils lib. It is pure binary format and
therefore requires something like XModem of B+ protocol for downloading. Umm,
that is the program ar.bin _and_ any .ar file are in binary format.

Zack

#: 7082 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    30-Sep-90  19:28:27
Sb: ##pt68k & herc graphics
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

ack,

I agree -- and I think that many users are behind you. It looks as though DOS
will be losing a lot of folks to other OSes -- just that fact alone gives us
"dark horse" folks a much bigger chance.

Still, I run across people who are INCREDIBLY DOS-arrogant. (Sniff) "Is it
MS-DOS compatible? No? (Sniff) Well ..."

That's why our machine will read/write/format DOS disks, will hav{ some great
DOS programs on it, and so on.

Paul

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7102 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    01-Oct-90  17:55:59
Sb: #7082-##pt68k & herc graphics
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul,

I wouldn't pick only on MSDOS folks, I've heard the same statement "..is it
XXX-compatible..", but with XXX meaning: MSDOS, MAC, Unix, OS9 (!), IBM, DEC
etc. Arrogance and single-mindedness is not a trait that MSDOS users can claim
as their own!

Don't knock MSDOS TOO hard, its not a dead (yet), Windows 3.0 turns MSDOS into
something closely resembling a true multitasking OS (granted you need a real
powerhouse of a PC to run it, fast 386 processor and lots of memory) but it is
a step in the right direction. Its still a single user machine, though (of
course...SNIFF! ;-).

I'm rambling a bit, but my main point is that the "my thing is bigger/better
than your thing" statment rarely holds up to close scrutiny, and tends to p.ss
off whoever has whatever you don't. Best bet is to just stick to: "WOW look at
what MY thing can do!!".

Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7150 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    03-Oct-90  08:55:53
Sb: #7102-##pt68k & herc graphics
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

Bill,

Well, I agreee a GREAT deal with what you say. Boasting is bad, and just annoys
people.

However, the MM/1 and OSK have some features that are in great demand, and they
execute them well. Just a little multitasking and multimedia power -done
efficiently -- is what the Mac II and 386 folks want to do.

Maybe the way to resolve the boasting problem is to leave the boasting to
benefits and features, and not to systems. There are a great many features that
the Mac iifx has that we can't compete with (price is one we can't keep up with
-- the fx is darn expensive!). And vice versa. So we can't really boast "My
MM/1 is better that your iifx!" We CAN say, "My MM/1 multitasks and does
multimedia in an effective and efficient way, and although I'd love a 33 MHz
68030, I don't need it to do what the MM/1 does well!"

Or something.

Anyway, this discussion is moot. People will boast anyway, no matter what we
say!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7163 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    03-Oct-90  18:31:08
Sb: #7150-#pt68k & herc graphics
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul,

That's because they'll have something to boast about!

I wasn't bashing boasting, but bashing bashing :-)

Comparing and contrasting the multitude of different hardware and software
systems is very helpful to anyone trying to decide which product to buy. I just
get VERY tired of "my system is the best because its a XXX" or "your system is
trash because its not a XXX" instead of "my system isn't multiuser, but
multitasking, and supports AAA and ZZZ, which fits my needs perfectly, and
since your system can't LLL, then I would never consider switching systems".

Put a mac owner and an ibm owner together and you'd think that the future of
humanity depended on which system was "better" than the other. And we know
they're both wrong!! }:-)

Bill

#: 7134 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    02-Oct-90  20:17:37
Sb: #7082-#pt68k & herc graphics
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul, I've been hearing that "Is it XXX compatible" question since 1959! It
used to be IBM7090, then it was FORTRAN, then it was Microsoft BASIC, then is
was Apple II, then it was CP/M.  It seems to be an occupational disease.  I
_HATE_ it!

Jack



#: 7088 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    30-Sep-90  23:21:20
Sb: #data
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: all

Does anybody have a DATA base with at least 10 fields?



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7095 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Oct-90  15:54:42
Sb: #7088-#data
Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

I've sort of been working on one that can handle up to 20 fields plus features
formating (i.e. placing the fields on the screen wherever you wish).  Maybe I
should dust it off and finish it.

Floyd

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7110 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Oct-90  22:37:20
Sb: #7095-#data
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X)

That would be great!! Hey what ever happend to the modem game??



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7125 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Oct-90  14:06:41
Sb: #7110-#data
Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

Well, as soon as I can find a cheap RS-232 pak I'm going to work on some.  I
tried to test some over the phone but that was next to impossible.

Floyd

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7136 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Oct-90  22:15:07
Sb: #7125-#data
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X)

OK thanks for the info let me know when you are done or if I can be some help.
 OK?



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7155 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Oct-90  14:39:23
Sb: #7136-#data
Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

No problem.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7173 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Oct-90  23:05:33
Sb: #7155-#data
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X)

How soon do you think?



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7176 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Oct-90  05:46:18
Sb: #7173-data
Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

Well, the data base program can be completed fairly quickly.  As far as modem
games, whenever I get another RS-232 pak.

Floyd

#: 7111 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    01-Oct-90  23:09:14
Sb: #Humorous OSK Docs
Fm: Kim Kempf 76701,65
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Other cute "man" names considered but rejected in the name of sanity.
You determine the -MAN:
 
Cache And Virtual Emulator -MAN
Write Once -MAN
SUPERvisor state -MAN
MEGAbyte memory -MAN
MEGAbyte memory -MAN (2 meg)
Write And LocK -MAN
System Protection and Indirect/Direct Extended Relocation - MAN
 
SOCKMAN is the actual name of the Internet socket manager.  On the FM11
the mouse manager was MOUSEMAN, the driver was MOUSE and the descriptor
was MICKEY.  Please contribute your favorite -MANs!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7151 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    03-Oct-90  09:02:28
Sb: #7111-#Humorous OSK Docs
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Kim Kempf 76701,65 (X)

Well, how 'bout plain old MailMAN?

For us math majors on multimedia WANs, we could have the Multiuser AXess
Multimedia INterface-MAN.

Or the manager that handles PC specific hardware call trapping in the OS-9000
DOS window -- TANSTAAFL-Man

(There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch, Man ...)

(grin)

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7165 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    03-Oct-90  19:33:40
Sb: #7151-#Humorous OSK Docs
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Speaking of strings with "man" as a proper suffix...doesn't Bart Simpson emit a
lot of those? <grin>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7200 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    05-Oct-90  06:50:54
Sb: #7165-Humorous OSK Docs
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hey, to speed up calculations we can always use a Binary ARiThmetic -MAN.  And
a special note to George Bush: Don't have a Catastrophic, Oil War -MAN!

William

#: 7112 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    01-Oct-90  23:15:49
Sb: #aterm
Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41
To: Michael Fisher 72320,1233 (X)

Mike,

The bus error problem on Sterm 1.3 is something that recently came to my
attention.  Please bear with me as a new version is in the works.  Since I
didn't have an OSK machine until recently, I never knew of the error until
someone else mentioned it.  I suppose those that had been using it for some
time always did B protocol transfers (grin).

Mark

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7157 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    03-Oct-90  16:25:10
Sb: #7112-aterm
Fm: Michael Fisher 72320,1233
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X)

Hi Mark,
       Thanks for the feedback, I never thought of trying B+ since it hung with
xmodem I didn't think there was a chance - not very logical!I luck forward to
hearing from you one day re a solution, meanwhile I will try B+ and advise my
friend.
                          Mike Fisher - Toronto

#: 7114 S7/Telecommunications
    02-Oct-90  00:04:17
Sb: #Thanks
Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)


  The problem I'm having isn't with the linefeeds. I'm a section leader
(assistant SysOP) on another forum of CIS. When I access the SysOP area I can
only upload and download using B-protocol or MODEM7 (like in Easyplex). Telstar
won't use these protocols. What is MODEM7? I guess as Mike said I will need to
change my terminal program. Not being very knowledgable in OS9 I don't look
forward to making changes.

Thanks, Butch Mooney





There is 1 Reply.

#: 7217 S7/Telecommunications
    05-Oct-90  23:27:16
Sb: #7114-#Thanks
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X)

modem7 is an early version of xmodem. they should be compatible. since modem7
was designed to exchg files it does not (usually) mess about with the contents
of the data stream. since os9 uses a single CR as a newline while the rest of
the world uses a cr/lf pair the display of files on a bbs often does not work.
either the bbs or os9 must convert cr to cr/lf at some point. in a straight
upload (read etc) this is done. but in xmodem both ends leave the contents
alone. I dont have your original message but the problem you described did
sound like a line-feed problem. if it was then xcom9 gives you the option of
converting cr to cr/lf even in xmodem mode. <greg morse>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7225 S7/Telecommunications
    06-Oct-90  07:29:06
Sb: #7217-Thanks
Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)


 Thank you very much for the information. The strange things is Telstar does
the samething. I can do a CR or CRLF in or out or both directions. That is why
I don't think it was a linefeed problem.

Butch

#: 7120 S7/Telecommunications
    02-Oct-90  04:45:06
Sb: #Thanks
Fm: Mike Ward 76703,2013
To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X)

MODEM7 is a very OLD term for Xmodem. I'm sure you'll discover (if you haven't
already) that Telstar will work in that mode but if it doesn't add linefeeds it
won't help much. Like Greg said too, Xcom9, available here, will do that trick.
Another thing you might consider is to look in the Libs here for a utility to
make a copy of the file and add line feeds to it offline. Lotsa ways to skin a
cat.

Welcome to sysop heaven. <grin>




There is 1 Reply.

#: 7122 S7/Telecommunications
    02-Oct-90  09:10:18
Sb: #7120-#Thanks
Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126
To: Mike Ward 76703,2013 (X)

 Thanks for the information. It is very helpful. Learning about sysop heaven
(grin) and OS9 at the same time is a little to much. (frown) If I wasn't for
the people here in this forum I don't know what I would do. The service doesn't
know a thing about OS9 so I would be in the dark.

Butch

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7146 S7/Telecommunications
    03-Oct-90  07:38:00
Sb: #7122-#Thanks
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X)

Butch, just curious .... where are you sysoping these days?

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7153 S7/Telecommunications
    03-Oct-90  10:32:29
Sb: #7146-Thanks
Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

 Hi Steve,

 I'm at the Horse Section of the PETS Forum. New as of Feb. this year.

Butch

#: 7123 S6/Applications
    02-Oct-90  09:54:28
Sb: #6838-#microemacs bug
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Greeting-
     I just got somewhere with the Sun termcap thing! Use the vt100 termcap
entry.  It works for sun shelltool windows just fine.  I just added sun to the
|vt100|d0| section of the entry.

Funny thing is I never had trouble with my model 100 entry.  Strange. Simmy
HELP!

-Brett

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7147 S6/Applications
    03-Oct-90  07:40:24
Sb: #7123-#microemacs bug
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X)

Thanks for the info, Brett.

I quake in my boots anytime I have to change anything these days on the CoCo.
I'm not sure which is worse ... new bootfiles or termcap entries.


Say ... (on another topic) how 'bout a breif discourse on your Os9 list thing?

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7290 S6/Applications
    11-Oct-90  20:16:07
Sb: #7147-#microemacs bug
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

~ Greeting-
     The os9 list is a mailing list that originates on usenet via my COCO3
running uucp.  It is not full featured yet, but what happens is if someone
sends mail to ....marob!davidge!wa3yre!os9 the message is ransmitted to all
subscribers on the list.  I guess it must be getting to CIS if you are
commenting.  This is the second set of uucp utilities and enahncements that I
am working on now.  Everyone who gets the uucp archive will probably see some
of my code in both stand alone utilities and in parts of the rest. That is of
course if /\/\ark did not give my code the axe in final QC.

I started the os9 mailing list because of service problems with the coco
mailing list.

I think with the new OSK machines out and with uucp out finaly after 3 years
(Not Marks fault) we need an os9 mailing list especialy since not everyone has
access to the comp.os.os9 news group from usenet.  As soon as I get news going
on the unix box at work I will work on redistributing comp.os.os9 to the os9
mailing list.  If anyone wants on the list just drop mail to me at
......marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop and I will add you.  It may take a few days
because I have not automated the process yet.  BTW STEVE when are you going to
make a posting?

-Brett

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7297 S6/Applications
    11-Oct-90  22:16:57
Sb: #7290-#microemacs bug
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X)

I really think that some of the redistribution needs to go the other way.  Eric
Tilenius siphoned off a lot of traffic that would otherwise have gone to
comp.os.os9 and comp.sys.m6809, and there's no way a random CoCo user with
USENET access would have any idea that the BITNET mailing list even exists.  At
the *very* least, there ought to be some regular posting to the newsgroups that
tells people how to get to the mailing list.  (For that matter, lack of use is
a good way to make a newsgroup a candidate for extinction.)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7327 S6/Applications
    13-Oct-90  09:05:03
Sb: #7297-#microemacs bug
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

~ Greeting-
     I agree we need to get some stuff going in comp.os.os9.  I will look into
sending the os9 mailing list there after I get news going on my machine at the
office.  In the mean time I guess I will post something to comp.os.os9 about
the list.  I started the os9 mailing list out of self defense at first.  There
was no life in comp.os.os9 and I had been dropped from the coco list and after
a month of trying could still not get on. BTW JJ do you want to be added to the
os9 mailing list?  I think I have your uucp address somewhere.  You can post to
the list by send ing mail to
.....marob!davidge!wa3yre!os9

-Brett



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7338 S6/Applications
    13-Oct-90  14:23:58
Sb: #7327-#microemacs bug
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X)

Please do put me on the list.  It's uunet!mcrware!jejones.  Glad to hear that
you'll check out forwarding mailing list stuff to comp.os.os9; traffic has
picked up a bit recently, but it's likely to fade out soon.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7448 S6/Applications
    16-Oct-90  22:07:46
Sb: #7338-microemacs bug
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

~ Greeting-
    James Please send me mail via usenet so I can get a good return path to
you.

-Brett

uucp.............hombre!marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop



#: 7334 S6/Applications
    13-Oct-90  10:24:01
Sb: #7290-#microemacs bug
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X)

Brett,

Actually I was just waiting for more information ... and you'd just given it!

Next step is for me to subscribe ... as soon as I decide exactly how I wish to
go about this (use the CIS account or perhaps via rewop).

Keep an eye out.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7444 S6/Applications
    16-Oct-90  20:55:14
Sb: #7334-#microemacs bug
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Greeting-
     Check your cis mail box.  I put both you and Paul ward on in the
beginning. You should see a few messages from the server already.

-Brett

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7495 S6/Applications
    17-Oct-90  22:43:29
Sb: #7444-microemacs bug
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720

Will do Brett.



#: 7129 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Oct-90  17:26:50
Sb: Spoker Bugz
Fm: Paul Rinear 73757,1413
To: Joseph Cheek 76264,142 (X)

      Ok, cool. At least we know what's going on now.
   /exit

#: 7132 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Oct-90  17:54:06
Sb: #512k got trashed
Fm: Shawn Thomas 76226,3237
To: All

Could someone provide me with info on who is selling 512k upgrad boards for the
Coco 3?  I just moved and somehow my board got trashed, it no longer works in
either of my Coco 3s.  Or should I take it to some tech and have the chips
tested?  I'm currently running on 128k, and it is driving me nuts!  And of
course running on 128k meant chopping my boot file down from where I had it.  I
no longer subscribe to Rainbow, and I'm not sure what companies are still out
there, or what their prices are like.

Shawn

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7148 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Oct-90  07:48:15
Sb: #7132-512k got trashed
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Shawn Thomas 76226,3237 (X)

Shawn,

I, too, dropped Rainbow a while back... but they just sent me the October ish
trying to convince me I need to resubscribe. So here's a few vendors you might
wish to check out (in no particular order):

Microcom 1-800-654-5244
Burke and Burke 1-800 237-2409
Disto 514-967-0195


Might want to take the plung in to the 1 meg machine if the buck are right.

Steve

#: 7133 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Oct-90  19:36:41
Sb: Level I Drivers
Fm: Chris Burke 72240,304
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Well, Steve, we haven't done anything on BlueBoard. The TC9 and MM/1 make the
product less viable.  If I ever get time, maybe I'll just post the PAL
equations and stuff so that some other enterprising person can build the thing.

Nice to be back!

CJB

#: 7135 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Oct-90  21:39:23
Sb: #Sterm_Question
Fm: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720
To: all

sterm_question symptoms= Sterm menu comes on screen then the computer locks up
with the cursor under the statement Current baud rate=9600,computer will not
respond to any keys and I have out of the lockup. Knowing the baud should be
1200 baud to match my Avatex 1200 modem,could this cause the above symptoms? I
have the Sterm in /d0/cmds,termcap and ttytype in /d0/sys,also t2 and patched
cc3io in os9boot using coco3.How do I go about changing the baud rate? then
again my thinking may be out in left field. StanleyGoldsberry 72060,2720

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7141 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Oct-90  03:34:16
Sb: #7135-Sterm_Question
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720 (X)

You should be able to change the baud rate with xmode.

#: 7149 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Oct-90  07:53:18
Sb: #7135-#Sterm_Question
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720 (X)

Stanley,

Aside from the baud problem wich you can solve by xmoding the descriptor prior
to executing sterm, Sterm assumes that /dd is present.

You tell us that sterm is in /d0/cmds and the termcap stuff is in /d0/sys, so I
assume that you don't have /dd in your boot. Three solutions come immediately
to mind:

1) add /dd to your bootfile
2) move the termcap stuff to /r0/sys  (sterm knows about ramdisk)
3) using Ded, change the occurances of /dd in sterm to /d0

Take your pick, and let us know what works for you.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7210 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  18:12:19
Sb: #7149-Sterm_Question
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

 if you don't use anything else with that discriptor,you
 might want to cobbler it after you xmode it to the correct baud.

        andy t.

#: 7143 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    03-Oct-90  05:24:05
Sb: Luxury Tax?
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: All

Part of the proposed budget/deficit reduction plan may affect you.

I have heard that among its components is a 10% "luxury tax," which applies to,
among other things, "electronic equipment."

Does that include computers?  I don't know, but I certainly hope not, and I've
taken advantage of CIS's Congressgram facilities to express my opinion to my
senators.  I think that it would be a good idea to consider expressing your
opinion to your Congressbeings as well.

#: 7144 S15/Hot Topics
    03-Oct-90  07:21:54
Sb: MM/1 Serv. Manual
Fm: Giles 73347,2651
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Thx, Paul!
  Prolly c u at th Fest! (grin)
  Giles

#: 7145 S15/Hot Topics
    03-Oct-90  07:25:08
Sb: MM/1 Serv. Manual
Fm: Giles 73347,2651
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Maybe I aughta badger Kev for a copy of HIS version! (grin)
  Giles

#: 7156 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  16:01:57
Sb: #Need help with C
Fm: MAS 76336,3226
To: *

Can someone please give me hints on how to port the pipe() and fork() commands
from Unix to from Unix to OS-9?

        Thanks!

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7158 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  16:35:44
Sb: #7156-Need help with C
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

Haven't done exactly that, but have opened a lot of /pipe's. It would look
something like:
 pipe(fd)
 int *fd;
 {
      fd[0] = open("/pipe","w");
      fd[1] = open("/pipe","r");
 }
 Of course, that's not exactly it (I think in pipe() there is only one pipe
actually created), but you get the idea.
 Mark

#: 7159 S3/Languages
    03-Oct-90  16:40:57
Sb: #7156-Need help with C
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

Fork() is a different beastie, as os9 doesn't do your traditional unix fork()
and exec() to spawn new processes. Since most of the time you fork() in unix
you end up exec()ing the process you really wanted, you replace the fork() and
exec() in the unix code with a single os9exec(). If you *really* want to spawn
a child that takes up like the unix fork() does (ie: no exec()), you'll have to
play some game at the beginning of the program to see if this is the child or
the parent and branch (eek - goto in "c") to the appropriate spot.
 Good luck.
 Mark

#: 7175 S3/Languages
    04-Oct-90  02:20:40
Sb: #7156-#Need help with C
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

There is source for Unix popen() pclose() in unixlib.ar (I think) in DL12.
The package is written for OSK and may not work for OS-9 LII.

Bob

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7178 S3/Languages
    04-Oct-90  11:17:54
Sb: #7175-#Need help with C
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

Bob -

In the current version of the Kreider C Libraries (clib.l and clibt.l) for the
6809, there are working versions of popen() and pclose() for os9/6809'ers. They
work just ducky. Compliments of one Simmy Turner.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7197 S3/Languages
    05-Oct-90  03:59:25
Sb: #7178-Need help with C
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Pete,
  Of course, the Kreider libs! Sorry, I should have thought first! :-)

Bob

#: 7164 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    03-Oct-90  18:49:32
Sb: Sterm
Fm: Michael Fisher 72320,1233
To: Mark Griffith/ 76070,41 (X)

Hi Mark,
       I just downloaded three files using sterm with B+ and all was well,
thanks.I notice  when I am typing a text message in, like now, if I hold a key
down and get a key repeat (at least for space or cr ), the ST locks up and I
must reboot to get out.Maybe a buffer size problem -or a Mike Fisher or ST
problem <grin> ?
          Thanks again - Mike Fisher Toronto.

#: 7166 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Oct-90  20:40:16
Sb: ShellMate
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: All

Anyone here use ShellMate, if so, what are your thoughts on the product.

Who is marketing it now?

Lee

#: 7167 S1/General Interest
    03-Oct-90  20:43:11
Sb: OS9 on IBM PC family
Fm: Robert V mahoney Jr. 71211,1156
To: all

I have heard rumours of a version of OS9 that runs on the Intel 80286 (and
family). Anyone know anything about this? Thanx!

#: 7174 S1/General Interest
    04-Oct-90  00:41:04
Sb: #serial port boards
Fm: Ken Drexler 75126,3427
To: Doug 72667,1433 (X)

Doug,

I saw your message #6853 re "serial port boards. I was about to write you to
sign up for 2 or 3 boards for my two SSB systems. Then I saw Greg Morse's
message #6875. It referred to a company named Microplex in Vancouver and its
M108 DUART board. Greg's message gave the phone number for Microplex. I called
them at (604) 875-1461 today and talked to Fred, one of their sales people. He
said they had discontinued the product but had four of the M108 boards left. He
said that them would sell one for $80 (Canadian) each. I ordered one. This
price includes Greg Morse's software driver.

If you are still interested in one or more a serial SS-30 boards, you might
give them a call. If you need more than three maybe you can talk them into
letting you use the board layout.

Ken Drexler

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7186 S1/General Interest
    04-Oct-90  22:20:58
Sb: #7174-#serial port boards
Fm: DOUG 72667,1433
To: Ken Drexler 75126,3427 (X)

Thanks Ken... Pete said to check with Greg also.  Thanks for the info.  May
give them a call and may still try and make the boards.  I've got a fairly good
small run company that normally does my work.

B C N U ; Doug

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7227 S1/General Interest
    06-Oct-90  10:26:42
Sb: #7186-serial port boards
Fm: Ken Drexler 75126,3427
To: DOUG 72667,1433

Good luck xx<AT

#: 7177 S5/OS9 Users Group
    04-Oct-90  06:06:23
Sb: Election
Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267
To: ALL

Election Time folks! We need candidates for all offices! Bert Schnieder has
thrown his hat in for President. the deadline is Oct 15th!

#: 7183 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Oct-90  20:40:52
Sb: #Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Chris Bergerson 72227,127
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

     You helped me on September 22 with the Tandy part numbers for IC8 and Q1
in a Coco III.  I replaced them both, and my 5 volt problem has been cured. 
Thanks!

     However... symptoms now are that I get only a blank 32 column screen with
a black border.  Seems to me that the last time I ran across this, the culprit
was the GIME.  Or was it the 6809?  Would you happen to have the part numbers
for these items as well?  (Although, if you think it's the CPU, I'll probably
order it from a source other than Tandy.)

     Thanks again for your never-ending assistance!



There are 4 Replies.

#: 7192 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Oct-90  23:43:08
Sb: #7183-#Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Chris Bergerson 72227,127 (X)

Chris - since you get some video, might be just the cpu.  Of course, you'll
need to put in a socket (dontcha hate that?).

I think we should ask openly for someone to come up with the GIME number... I
believe the stock # has changed over the years, with newer parts. Might be a
file on this around, not sure.  If no one comes up with the latest number, I'll
dig up the old one.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7213 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  21:46:29
Sb: #7192-Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Chris Bergerson 72227,127
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Yeah, I've put in sockets into quite a few Cocos.  Putting 'em in isn't so bad.
Chopping out the chip is the pain.

I did purchase a GIME a while back... maybe I can find the packing slip and get
the part number off of it.  But per your suggestion, I'll try the CPU first.

Thanks!   See you at the Fest!

#: 7195 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  02:38:50
Sb: #7183-#Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Chris Bergerson 72227,127 (X)

Chris!

The part number for the GIME chip is MX-0992.  If you're going to be at the
Atlanta CoCofest, stop by the DELMAR booth - I'll bring a couple with me.

Ed

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7214 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  21:49:25
Sb: #7195-Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Chris Bergerson 72227,127
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Thanks a bunch, Ed.  I'll certainly look you up at the Fest!  Might just buy a 
GIME, although Kevin concurs that it's most likely the CPU.
 
Will you also have a 68B09 available?
 
See you in Atlanta!

#: 7201 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  06:51:18
Sb: #7183-#Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: Chris Bergerson 72227,127 (X)

The CPU is a MC68B09E, the equivalent, or better; if you have been having heat
problems try to find a chip with a C suffix instead of P.  The ceramics usually
have a better temperature rating.  The new GIME(Tandy calls it ACVC) is part 
MX-0992.

William

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7215 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  21:51:21
Sb: #7201-#Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Chris Bergerson 72227,127
To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X)

Thanks very much for the info on the CPU and the GIME, William.  Should have
the thing repaired within a few days, thanks to tour help, as well as others
here.
 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7221 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  23:54:04
Sb: #7215-Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: Chris Bergerson 72227,127 (X)

I'm always glad to help.

#: 7205 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  13:28:11
Sb: #7183-#Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572
To: Chris Bergerson 72227,127 (X)

Do you have the 512k upgrade.  I know that from time to time I get only a blank
VDG screen when I power up.  The culprit is my upgrade.  I have to take the
cover off and press down on the memory board.  I then power up and everything
is fine.

Floyd

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7216 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  21:53:33
Sb: #7205-#Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Chris Bergerson 72227,127
To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X)

Thanks Floyd, but the Coco I am working on has only 128K, (it's my sister's
machine), so re-seating the 512K board won't help.  BUT, it may help me
in the future if I ever experience the same symptoms.
 
Thanks!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7226 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    06-Oct-90  09:36:03
Sb: #7216-#Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Chris Bergerson 72227,127 (X)

Chris,

I have to agree that the CPU is the logical choice. I toasted mine way back
when with the same symptoms. Seems the CPU is very susceptable (?) to damage.
Mine got eaten when I bumped the MPI.

The CPU is the cheaper chip as well.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7243 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    08-Oct-90  03:42:07
Sb: #7226-Coco III Hardware Probs
Fm: Chris Bergerson 72227,127
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Thanks, Steve.  I'll be ordering the CPU today, and am pretty sure it will fix
the problem.

#: 7196 S5/OS9 Users Group
    05-Oct-90  03:30:11
Sb: #GFX2 Module
Fm: George Hendrickson 71071,2003
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Hi. I need some help using the new gfx2. I tried the little sample that came in
the docs but can't get a menu to appear. What is the command to call up a menu
after it has been set up? I also was wondering about the 'window descriptor
array'. What does it consist of? The docs didn't say anything to clearly about
that.

Thanks for the help.. George

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7253 S5/OS9 Users Group
    08-Oct-90  22:22:11
Sb: #7196-GFX2 Module
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: George Hendrickson 71071,2003

Hi George -

Capture message #6947 for the example program.  See if that works for you (in a
gfx window of course).

A menu will appear if you're doing a GetSel and the arrow is over a top menu
item.  WindInt handles it from there, then returns the selection numbers to
you.

The window/menu descriptor arrays are not described, because the whole point
was to hide all the technical guts to make things easier.  The M-V manual (the
section on C interfacing) contains the info about what these structures
contain.

So instead of a basic09 programmer needing to become part asm-programmer (and
set up TYPEd arrays, use Syscall, etc), the idea was to create commands which
diddled those structures from a higher-level Basic-like syntax.  The space for
the structures was still needed, however, so I had to make you DIM memory for
them.  Strings, bytes, whatever... didn't matter... just as long as there was
sufficient space.

Let me know how you fare. best - kev

#: 7206 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    05-Oct-90  13:33:01
Sb: Rdisk
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling, 76703,4227 (X)

Yeah, I figure it will take an mdir after exiting MV, plus another one to
compare mdir after creating an OS9 shell.   Later.   btw, just got the 1meg
upgrade today.  -ph-

#: 7220 S1/General Interest
    05-Oct-90  23:42:04
Sb: #F$MOVE
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: [F] Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kev - thinking about your suggstion to do an os9p3 and redefine F$MOVE, that
would work for most F$ and I$ calls but F$Move is probably one of the few calls
it will NOT work for. I'll let you guess why! treat it as an IQ test (-:) <greg
>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7252 S1/General Interest
    08-Oct-90  22:21:51
Sb: #7220-#F$MOVE
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg -

Ok, I'll bite <grin>.  So howcum an os9p3 F$Move wouldn't work?

Granted, I bet some of OS9p1 calls the original internally, but that shouldn't
prevent using a new and better one for SCF/RBF/IOMan/OS9p2/etc.

Or do you mean something about getting it installed?  Or?  I give up! ;-)

thx - Kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7341 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  14:50:00
Sb: #7252-#F$MOVE
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Well! Because the code for F$MOVE that does all the work and needs all the
improvemnet must be located in the top 256 bytes of the address map. F$move
just jumps to a subroutine "MOVER" and it is mover that is inneficient! (and
located in the top 256 bytes) greg

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7348 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  21:22:28
Sb: #7341-#F$MOVE
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Aha!  You made me stop for a second <grin>, but nope F$Move doesn't have to be
in the top vector page... only interrupt/return code does.  Move shuts off
interrupts, which means it can be at any location.

One thing F$Move does do tho, is to assume that it's above certain logical
address move areas (on the CoCo, the blocks at $A000 and $C000, I think).

But as long as OS9p3 looked up to see where it had been located, I believe it
could set up move areas to use with no trouble.  So I still think you can
replace F$Move.  Ready to give it a shot? - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7360 S1/General Interest
    14-Oct-90  11:40:58
Sb: #7348-#F$MOVE
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev - study the code of mover. I do beleive it must be in an area that exists
in all address spaces. Not because of interupts but because it is changing the
task select register on the fly. when it does that the PROGRAM COUNTER is no
longer valid, unless the code being executed is in ALL address spaces. I think
that during the course of mover there are 3 address spaces in action - the
source, the dest, and the system. And there is NO RAM which exists in all the
address spaces, only ROM That is one reason why mover does all of its movement
thru registers and why it exg B and DP etc rather than just pushing onto a
stack. THERE is no RAM. be much more efficient if there were, then instead of
changing address spaces on every double byte, mover could copy say 32 bytes
from the from space to the stack, then switch to the to space and copy from the
stack. but it cant. also note that mover re-enables interrupts after every
double byte to give the system a chance to work on higher priority stuff. at
least all of the above is true for the OS9-II v1.2 I have. <greg>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7383 S1/General Interest
    15-Oct-90  13:08:34
Sb: #7360-#F$MOVE
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg - that may be it... your Mover may be different than the CoCo's, which
doesn't mess with the task register... just changes the system one on the fly. 
I'll dig out my old GIMIX source and look.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7391 S1/General Interest
    15-Oct-90  21:10:42
Sb: #7383-#F$MOVE
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

How does the coco mover work then? it must know of at least 2 address spaces -
one user and 0ne system so what happens to the pgm counter when it switches
from system to user or vice versa? also what does it use as scratch ram to do
the move from/to?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7405 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  00:20:12
Sb: #7391-#F$MOVE
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

The one/two-byte mover simply replaces system logical block zero with the
target block number, gets/puts the data, then zeros the DAT again (possible of
course because the block at logical $0000 in system space is always physical
RAM block 00).

On the longer moves it doesn't flip tasks like yours must. Why not? The CoCo
only has two task regs (and thus two DAT reg sets), so it can't go and allocate
another task for moves.  I suppose it could use the user (second) task set for
moves, but they didn't.  Instead only the main system task is used:

It figures out the source and destination block numbers, shuts off irqs, and
maps those blocks in at system map logical $A000 and $C000.  Then it can copy a
short burst between those blocks, reset the original system map block numbers,
and turn on irqs.  Then repeat, changing block numbers as user blockmap
boundaries are crossed.

Since the mover code is outside those two changing system logical address
ranges, the code is safe.  In other words, on 8K block Cocos (system map block
numbers are made up for typical boot), if it needed to move data from physical
block number $10 to block number $12, it would:

 System Map   Normal Sys   Set Up For
 Log. Add     Map Blocks   Data Move
 ==========   ==========   ==========
 $E000-FFFF   $003F        $003F    <-- mover code here
 $C000-DFFF   $0004        $0012    <-- destination block mapped in
 $A000-BFFF   $0003        $0010    <-- source block mapped in
 $8000-9FFF   $0002        $0002
 $6000-7FFF   $0001        $0001    (block changes temp during irq-off
 $4000-5FFF   $0005        $0005     movement, then back to normal)
 $2000-3FFF   DATFree      DATFree
 $0000-1FFF   $0000        $0000

So it temporarily changes the system task map DAT info in order to make two
external blocks appear and be accessible for moving data around.  You could
definitely pull the same trick.  As for a OS9P3's volatile location, you could
have it check itself and use logical addresses away from itself. Does this make
warped sense?  Just diddling its own system map.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7440 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  20:13:37
Sb: #7405-F$MOVE
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Will peruse off line but yes, in a way it does make sense to just zap the DAT
itself rather than the task select register. would have to do a logical to
physical calculation to get phys block which might cost some time depending on
hte number of bytes to move and of course irq's are not safe while system DAT
has been modified. tnx anyway. <greg>

#: 7224 S3/Languages
    06-Oct-90  01:23:03
Sb: #real time languages
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: all

I just got finished reading a most interesting book *Computer Languages* (by
Naomi S. Baron). Some nice comparisons and interesting perspectives. But what
has me somewhat confused is the comment that C is *not* a language for real
time programming. "Dennis Ritchie makes it quite clear that C was not desinged
to handle more than one operation at a time (that is, it was never intended to
do multiprogramming, which is a necessary component of real-time programming). 
. . . there are no facilities for multiprogramming, parallel operations,
synchronization, or process control."

For this kind of stuff we have to use Ada or Modula-2. Hmmm, I wonder how
real-time systems (like OS-9) manage to do anything at all in light of the
above. Or is there more than one definition of "real-time"? /ex post

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7250 S3/Languages
    08-Oct-90  13:11:31
Sb: #7224-#real time languages
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Multiple definitions of real-time, I'm afraid.

When I was working weapons systems, real time meant that each submodule had a
time budget, and overall system cycle time was crucial (for things like
launcher order extrapolation, future target position estimation, and so on). If
time overran it's set limit, a note was made and a time loan was established.
This was effectively taken from segments that didn't use all of their allocated
time. If a consistent offense was noted, that module was flagged and faulted
out to the executive.

Other people consider real time environments those that allow for dynamic
inputs, and simultaneously produce resultant output. A pitch shifter (in a
recording studio) is a good example.. a sound goes in, the processor performs
transforms on it, and that same sound is emitted from the outputs (in its
shifted form) almost at the same moment.

Other folks take real time to mean "not batch" (or deferred) processing.

Unfortunately, people think that "real time" is a sexy term, and will misuse it
to make something sound slick. Bet that this is the most common case. I, for
one, don't consider OS9 to be real time. It doesn't have finite periods during
which it must accomplish things, nor does it have the mechanisms to enforce
that kind of operation with its applications.

Back to C, ADA, and multiple concurrent operation. Using C under OS9/Unix, the
OPERATING system provides the facilities. Under ADA, tasking, rendevous, and
the likes are features of the language. I think that's where the distinction
lies.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7257 S3/Languages
    09-Oct-90  09:45:20
Sb: #7250-#real time languages
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

WHAT!? OS-9 not real time!? (Lucky for you none of their sales reps are on here
<g>)
 Seriously, the thing that makes OS-9 (and VRTX, and PSOS, etc) real-time is
the predictability of performance when it's needed. That is the very thing HP
put into HP-UX to make a "real-time" version of Unix. If you always know
exactly (within reason) how long a process or code segment is going to take,
then it is real-time. OS-9 user-state processes don't qualify, as they are
subject to scheduling (time-slicing) and interrupts.
 What we have done is to put timing-critical processes in system state and let
them "share" by tsleep()ing if and when it knows it has nothing to do. Although
one could argue that we aren't using OS-9 (or any OS) while we are in system
state, (in fact, there are points where the system clock is masked) it is nice
to have the kernel there to facilitate things such as fork()ing the process in
the first place and providing a systematic interface to the outside world
(i/o).
 Geez, I can't believe I jumped into a discussion about "real-time" <g>.
 Mark

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7258 S3/Languages
    09-Oct-90  12:47:07
Sb: #7257-real time languages
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X)

Mark -

I'd say you were on target... at that point, you've become a 'kernel
extension', and aren't a typical OS9 app. Also, your tsleep() approach is clock
dependant, and may not operate the same way on another architecture (i.e. in
6809/os9, ticks/slice was altered between SS-50 and coco type systems).

I've already done a bit of dueling on the topic with Kim Kempf on USENET
sometime ago. Basically (if I recall), he said something to the effect of
"well, it all depends what you call real time...".

Pete

#: 7231 S5/OS9 Users Group
    06-Oct-90  22:47:29
Sb: #T2mouse
Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106
To: Bruce Isted 76625,2273 (X)

Both yourself and Kent Meyers provided patches to the original CC3io Kent for
Gshell+ and yours for serial mouse. How do I reconcile cc3io.km and cc3io.bi?
Do I use makpatch by comparing them both? What effect, since I only have one
T2, will subsequent usuage for modem be?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7361 S5/OS9 Users Group
    14-Oct-90  15:30:47
Sb: #7231-T2mouse
Fm: Bruce Isted (UG VP) 76625,2273
To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 (X)

~ Kevin,
  I believe you only need to use the cc3io patches I provide in SMOUSE.AR,
because those patches also incorporate Kent Meyer's patches.  I thought it
would be easier for most users to start from the original CC3IO module, rather
than applying patch upon patch.  I'm sorry if the documentation didn't make
that clear.
  I'm afraid that when you have the serial mouse version of CC3IO installed you
won't be able to use the RS-232 Pak for your modem.  In order to use both at
once you'll need 2 separate hardware serial ports.  There are multi-port serial
boards available, or it is possible to modify a second RS-232 Pak so that two
Paks can be used at once.  There are text files in the libraries here that
describe those modifications... but I don't know exactly what or where they
are.
  One other thing... I will soon be uploading a new SMOUSE.AR file that
incorporates a slight change to give much improved IRQ response... its
something that Kevin Darling figured out and graciously gave me permission to
distribute.  Now all I need is to get the stuff together!
  Bruce



#: 7232 S3/Languages
    06-Oct-90  23:17:56
Sb: #Os9 Pascal Eoln Function
Fm: Steven Barlett 71635,1562
To: All Users

I am Writing a program in OS9 Pascal and am having some troble Inputing With
The Eoln Function..... After I Enter a string Varable into A Read Statement in
a While loop and press the Charage Return The rest of the inputs That are set
up to Be read are skipped as The Eoln Boolean is being set to True.... How Can
I reset the Eoln Function back to False before The next varable read... Is it
Possible... If not could anyone please make some suggestions... Your help would
be appreciated.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7233 S3/Languages
    07-Oct-90  02:53:47
Sb: #7232-#Os9 Pascal Eoln Function
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Steven Barlett 71635,1562 (X)

Steven,
  Its been about 8 years since I wrote any Pascal. I don't have OS9 Pascal.
However, if my memory serves me correctly I think I had to do a rewind
function call to reset the input file. You might try this and see what
happens. I presume you have read the manual?

Bob

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7234 S3/Languages
    07-Oct-90  09:29:05
Sb: #7233-Os9 Pascal Eoln Function
Fm: Steven Barlett 71635,1562
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

Hi Mr Taylor I will give it a try and let you know if it worked out...
thanks.....

#: 7237 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    07-Oct-90  12:47:55
Sb: #TOP, Munich Edition?
Fm: Al Fleagle 72527,1354
To: all

I've seen a lot of discussion on the TOP series.  Just what is it?  Do I need
it?



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7241 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    07-Oct-90  21:55:23
Sb: #7237-TOP, Munich Edition?
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Al Fleagle 72527,1354 (X)

Al,

The Top stuff is a series of files found in LIB 12 containing loads of
utilities and applications for OSK.

See TOP6.AR, TOP6A.AR and TOPIND.AR for documentation and Indices (all found in
LIB 12).

Steve

#: 7238 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    07-Oct-90  14:47:15
Sb: #help bad crc
Fm: ERIC HOCHSTETLER 71340,430
To: all


Can anyone tell me how to fix a module on disk with a bad CRC?  I can't figure
out how to do it with any command supplied with OS9 L2.




There are 2 Replies.

#: 7239 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    07-Oct-90  21:52:39
Sb: #7238-help bad crc
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: ERIC HOCHSTETLER 71340,430 (X)

Eric,

The only way I know of to fix a bad CRC is to replace the questioned program
from either a known good backup or the source disk.

If a file is being flagged as having a bad CRC ... then pay attention.
Something has gone on to cause it to be wrong!

:-)

Steve

#: 7251 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    08-Oct-90  20:47:48
Sb: #7238-help bad crc
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: ERIC HOCHSTETLER 71340,430

Eric - as someone has mentioned, if the CRC is bad, the module is messed up in
some way.  However, if you yourself changed the module on purpose, then the
"verify" command (it may be on the dev disk under L-II ... it came with L-I)
can be used.  If the module isn't already in memory, and you know what to
change, you could use modpatch to change and reverity it also.

Which module is it, and did you change it yourself (and how)?  thx - kev

#: 7242 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    07-Oct-90  23:00:14
Sb: #finished?
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To:  72227,3467 (X)

Did you ever finish your address program????

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7262 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    09-Oct-90  18:56:50
Sb: #7242-#finished?
Fm: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

Everett,
   You might have me mixed up with someone else ? Either that or my memory is
really going, because I can't think of an address program that I was working
on. The only thing close was that label maker program that I uploaded a couple
of years ago. I had thoughts at the time of adding a little database to that
label program but never got back to it.

Larry

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7268 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    09-Oct-90  22:42:16
Sb: #7262-finished?
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: LARRY OLSON 72227,3467

thats what i am talking about. got it from the download lidt.!

#: 7254 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    08-Oct-90  22:35:44
Sb: Motorola/Hitachi Settle
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: all

Good news:  Motorola and Hitachi have settled out of court on the H/8, H/16,
MC68030 and 88000 patent/sharing lawsuits.  Terms were not disclosed.

#: 7266 S1/General Interest
    09-Oct-90  22:31:57
Sb: #GoodBye
Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41
To: All

{To All OS9 Forum Members:

It is with regret that I must sign off from Compuserve begining immediately. I
have incurred over that last 8 months some very large financial difficulties
that have reduced my income substantially.  So, I must cut costs to the bare
bone in whatever way I can.  Unfortunately, Compuserve is something my family
can do without, and the money spent here, although small, is sorely needed
elsewhere.

Over the past 6 years or so I have seen many people come and go on the forum. I
didn't expect myself to be one of them.  I have enjoyed the friendships I have
made here, and hope to reestablish them again in the future.  I will not be
outside the mainstream of OS9 discussions though, since I still will have
access to the CoCo group on BITNET.

I have also just uploaded the complete OS9/UUCP package in DL7.....my final
contribution to the forum for the near future.  If anyone needs help with the
package, I will be available at my home phone number given in the docs, or via
my electronic mail addresses also given in the docs.  If anyone does not have
access to me by those routes, Steve Wegert, Ed Gresick, or Zack Sessions, all
members of this forum, can help answer your questions.

I hope to be able to login again after the first of the year.  So until then,
goddbye all and thanks for the opportunity to be a part of this group.

Mark Griffith

There are 5 Replies.

#: 7278 S1/General Interest
    10-Oct-90  22:35:57
Sb: #7266-GoodBye
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41

Mark,

Hope everything goes well for you in your absence, and that you're able to
rejoin the family soon!

 Wayne

#: 7279 S1/General Interest
    10-Oct-90  23:28:02
Sb: #7266-GoodBye
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41

Take care, Mark... I'm sure we'll be talking by phone in the meantime. Hope to
see you back up here soon!

#: 7280 S1/General Interest
    11-Oct-90  00:06:57
Sb: #7266-GoodBye
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41

I hope you return soon, and that things go well for you and your family. (It
was good to finally meet you.)

#: 7281 S1/General Interest
    11-Oct-90  00:27:47
Sb: #7266-GoodBye
Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41

Mark,
        Hang in there dude!  It just won't be the same without your input
around here.  Take care and hope ya get back on here soon.

Mike

PS  Great Fest, huh!

#: 7288 S1/General Interest
    11-Oct-90  07:22:22
Sb: #7266-GoodBye
Fm: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41

Mark -

We'll miss you here and look forward to having you back at the beginning of the
year. I'm sure I'll be talking with you plenty on the phone, though!

-mark

#: 7267 S6/Applications
    09-Oct-90  22:40:08
Sb: #Multivue
Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721
To: all

I'm trying to get Basic09 running on Multivue using an AIF.  I've got a Coco 3
with 512k.  My problem is when I click on the aif icon, a type 2 window comes
up.  This is what I want, but after the window comes up I get an error
115followed by an error 043.  Then the Basic09 prompt comes up and everything
seems to work normally.  However, the Basic09 title doesn't come up
either...just the error messages.  I have runb, syscall, and inkey in my cmds
dir. this is what my Aif looks like:
  Basic09

 /r0/cmds/icons/icon.demo
 0
 2
 80
 24
 0
 1 Does anyone know why I'm getting the error message?  If I run B09 from a
shell made by gshell it works fine. Dave

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7271 S6/Applications
    10-Oct-90  06:03:56
Sb: #7267-#Multivue
Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572
To: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 (X)

It sounds like the parameter line in the AIF (line 2) contains something.
Whatever is there, Multi-Vue will pass it to Basic09 as a parameter, even if it
is just a space.  Basic09 will then attempt to load and run the program.

Floyd

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7286 S6/Applications
    11-Oct-90  02:18:17
Sb: #7271-#Multivue
Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721
To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X)

Thanks for the info....any idea how I can correct the situation?.  Should I
specify a B09 program to load on line 2 then just get rid of it when it comes
up?  Oh well, as long as it doesn't affect its performance, I guess I can live
with the error messages!! Thanks again for your help!! Dave

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7292 S6/Applications
    11-Oct-90  20:44:03
Sb: #7286-#Multivue
Fm: Floyd Resler 72500,2572
To: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721 (X)

You can edit the file with the edit program supplied with OS9.  After entering
the editor, go to line 2 of the file and type:
 c/ //
 This will change the space character into a null.

Floyd

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7295 S6/Applications
    11-Oct-90  21:33:23
Sb: #7292-Multivue
Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721
To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X)

Thanks Floyd...I was able to make the change with SLED.  My problems now deal
with the color problems with SLED and the memory loss after quitting programs.
Dave

#: 7287 S6/Applications
    11-Oct-90  06:25:53
Sb: #7271-Multivue
Fm: DAVID DE FEO 71630,721
To: Floyd Resler 72500,2572 (X)

Floyd... I just found the problem.  When I made the aif files, I used the build
command and in order to get an empty line you have to press the space bar and
then enter.  I guess the space made by the space bar was taken to be a program
parameter, hence the error messages.  I used sled and finally cleared it up...
which brings up a couple of other questions: 1) SLED doesn't seem to follow the
16 palette colors, it only uses the first 2 colors on the first line of colors.
I know that the status flags' colors are already set, but why don't the edit
window colors(back and fore) change? 2) Once multivue establishes a window for
a process (like sled, shell, or B09) does it deiniz those windows after the
programs are quit.  For some reason, every ttime I quit a windowed program,
mfree shows me to have less memory than I should, corresponding to the mem size
of the window...usually type2-4k. When I quit, I either press ctrl-brk(for sled
and shell) or "bye" for B09. Everything disappears as they should.  Only the
mem from the windows doesn't return.  Should I be quitting these progs some
other way? Oops--I quit sled with ctrl-q. Well, thanks again for your help!
Dave

#: 7273 S15/Hot Topics
    10-Oct-90  13:58:03
Sb: #CoCoFest Report
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: all

The CoCoFest in Atlanta turned out to be a success!  People said the turnout
seemed as large as the last Chicago fest, which isn't bad at all considering
the relative lack of advertising done.  The number of regulars from far away
places was incredible... lots of New Yorkers,  Floridians, and even some guys
from Holland! The hotel was totally filled up, altho some of that was from the
cheerleader competition (now are you sorry you didn't go? hehe).

The producers did a bang-up job... it looked exactly like a RainbowFest, altho
I wish they'd left out the loud public announcement system (which is the terror
of all fests ;-).  Lots of booths, and I wish I'd kept the handout with the
names of all the companies there (someone got a list?).  Burke&Burke showed up
from Washington state, in fact!

It was definitely an OS9 oriented show, or seemed that way to me and others.
The hardware highlight of course was the showing of the new machines: the MM/1,
PT68K4, and TC70/TC9.

They only had one large room set aside for seminars, which meant they sometimes
had to be cut short.  I watched bits of the Future-of-Rainbow one, and Bjork's
CoCo-History.  My own BS session lasted from 6pm-9pm Saturday night (failed to
set a record by 1/2 hour  :-)... I must congratulate all 400 people who stuck
around since I forgot to give breaks once in a while!  I think we'd have kept
on all night long if we hadn't all been without sleep for days.

I'd like to hear others' impressions of the fest... as always, my view was
somewhat limited.  But I thought it was one of the best.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7277 S15/Hot Topics
    10-Oct-90  20:57:00
Sb: #7273-#CoCoFest Report
Fm: Dan Robins 73007,2473
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev,
  I've got one of the bulletins at the office, I'll post the list of vendors
tommorow if someone doesn't beat me to it.
   Dan

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7283 S15/Hot Topics
    11-Oct-90  00:43:41
Sb: #7277-CoCoFest Report
Fm: Michael P. Brown 76220,1014
To: Dan Robins 73007,2473 (X)

  I too have the list, but since Dan has already volunteered...

  I really had a great time at the fest - it's great to be able to put a face
and a voice to these messages now.  Since this was my first fest, I have no way
to compare to RainbowFests, but it was all I had hoped it would be (and the
room service wasn't bad, either.)

  I sure hope I can make it to another one sometime.

            Charles West (ignore the name above... it's my partner's account)

#: 7337 S15/Hot Topics
    13-Oct-90  14:21:27
Sb: #7273-#CoCoFest Report
Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin...VERY glad you could join us at Atlanta! Wish I'd had a moment to
actually meet you, but as you can imagine, I had my hands rather full most of
the time ;-).
  I just wanted to shed a little light on some of your observations about the
'fest. The rationale behind having only ONE seminar room was the avoidance of a
dilemma facing attendees of the Falsoft shows...having a hard choice between
two seminars one is interested in, that happen to be running concurrently (or
overlapping in part). By and large, the feedback I have recieved from the
attendees bore this out to be a popular approach.  I DO agree that some of the
seminars were forced to run a bit short due to these constraints, and next year
we will schedule one or two less seminars in order to relax the scheduling a
bit. At least we knew well enough to avoid putting YOU in the position of
having to run short <grin>...and inciting a riot in the process!
   We too were relatively pleased with the turnout, although we did do a bit
more in the way of advertising than you apparently realize.  We ran 3 months of
ads in Rbow, incessant promo on BBS', got a bit of press in the OSK'er, and did
a 1500-piece direct mailing to known CoCo and/or OS-9 users in the Eastern U.S.
No big deal at this juncture, but I guess I just want to let vendors know that
we DID do everything possible to ensure maximum attendance, given the

   As far as the "loud" P.A....well, what can I say! ;-) I was not aware that
the volume was excessive, but wish that you (or someone) would have mentioned
it if it were. At least we didn't use it to announce picture sessions with
Goober the CoCo Cracker <heehee>. Ol' Goob was busy enough on his own, anyway.
   If you would like a showguide or three, I do have some left.  If you e-mail
me your address, I'd be happy to mail you one.
   Again, thanks for the kind words. I'm glad that you (and all) had a good
time, and hope to meet you there next year! Thanks for joining us!
   Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7343 S15/Hot Topics
    13-Oct-90  15:13:45
Sb: #7337-#CoCoFest Report
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Dave Myers 71750,210 (X)

Dave, lemme jump in here to say Thanks for arranging the Atlanta Fest. I had a
good time and enjoyed the yearly renewal of contacts in person. Best Regards,
Ches.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7399 S15/Hot Topics
    15-Oct-90  23:09:27
Sb: #7343-CoCoFest Report
Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

Thanks, Ches! VERY glad you could join us! A pleasure seeing you, as always.
   Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products

#: 7291 S7/Telecommunications
    11-Oct-90  20:19:02
Sb: #uucp utility
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: all

Greeting-
     I just uploaded one of my utilities that was not done in time to make it
with the rest of the uucp package.  it is called uutry and works simmilar to
the unix program of the same name. It kills tsmon on the correct port then
starts uucico then restarts tsmon after uucico is done with the call.  I use it
out of cron to automate my calls to other sites.  It runs setuid to root to
allow any user to force a poll to a remote machine.  I gave it that feature so
Suzanne could force polls to my Sun at work.

    BTW if anyone in the New York metro area needs a uucp feed I would be happy
to oblige.  wa3yre has 2 good network connections.

     On another note if anyone in the New York area wants net mail or wants to
get the os9 mailing list, but they do not want uucp they should also contact
me.  I figure no time like the present to see how much this little old 6809 can
handle!

-Brett

uucp...........hombre!marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop direct.........212-942-0846
Login: guest

/ex



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7352 S7/Telecommunications
    14-Oct-90  05:15:05
Sb: #7291-#uucp utility
Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641
To: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720 (X)

how can I get access to a USENET node. I am in Atlanta and I do not know of any
USENET nodes as of yet.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7450 S7/Telecommunications
    16-Oct-90  22:12:14
Sb: #7352-uucp utility
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X)

~ Greeting-
     I do not know any contacts in your area, but I am sure there are uucp
sites there.  Many companies and Universities run unix and have uucp up and
running.  If you want to call New York I am setting my machine up as a uucp
gateway.

 -Brett

uucp..........hombre!marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop direct........212-942-0846
login: guest



#: 7296 S1/General Interest
    11-Oct-90  21:44:03
Sb: #1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

I've recently completed the 1 meg upgrade; installation checks out with
MEMTEST; new modules have been created properly according to IDENT.   
however....
  Only grfdrv wants to load into memory properly, not vdgint.  First I unlinked
the resident grfdrv and then loaded in the new patched version. IDENT showed
the new module to be in memory.  But trying the same approach with vdgint.io
did not work.  IDENT showed the old module didn't unlink.   I assume this is
because vdgint is loaded in on initial startup, being contained within OS9BOOT.
Modpatch didn't seem to work, reporting only -  unable to open file .    How
does one get the new vdgint.io into memory?   -ph- 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7300 S1/General Interest
    12-Oct-90  03:05:06
Sb: #7296-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - you're right: a module in the boot can't be unlinked.  Replacing one
that's in use is also a bad idea.

You'll need to edit your bootlist to point to the new vdgint file, and os9gen a
new boot.  Place the new grfdrv in your CMDS dir.  Then the next time you boot,
you'll end up using the newer stuff.

Yell if need help. best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7346 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  20:29:16
Sb: #7300-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I finally got the right modules into OS9 boot.  The system boots up well and
I'm doing some experimenting with the new memory.  Most of what I tried has
worked well.  Spent most of the day at it.
  So far, what hasn't worked is a ramdisk, DeskMate, & MV.  Do these require
special modules other than those for regular OS9?  Is is possible these
applications don't yet work with the upgrade?  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7349 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  21:24:34
Sb: #7346-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - MV should work for sure.  I'd think that DM-3 does also... do you have
the patched VD (oops)  patched VDGInt in your boot?

Some old ramdisks (especially my rammer) won't work with 1-meg.  There should
be replacements in the lib here, I'm pretty sure.  Or the DevPak ramdisk will
work.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7355 S1/General Interest
    14-Oct-90  07:45:01
Sb: #7349-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I had been using ramdisk128 & ramdisk192, I believe from Spectrum Projects -
they no longer work.  But ram.8k does seem to work without modification but it
has low capacity unless one changes the number of cylinders with DMODE.  How is
this done, and where does one find DMODE?
  Well, as for DM-3 and MV, I'll go back and re-check my work.  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7380 S1/General Interest
    15-Oct-90  13:00:19
Sb: #7355-1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Look in Lib 9 and/or Lib 10 for Dmode.  There's source and there's a binary. I
believe the binary is called DMODE.BIN.

Let us know what kind of errors/etc you run into with Gshell/DM-3.

#: 7358 S1/General Interest
    14-Oct-90  10:01:07
Sb: #7349-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Can't get MV to work with the upgrade installed.  Are you sure you meant to
include the new vdgint module and not the new grfdrv, since vdgint doesn't seem
to be in the original MV.  Anyways, I tried it both ways and got  OS9 BOOT
FAILED .   I used buildmv to create a new boot disk each time.  (assuming I
eventually get to the step where the MV disk is flipped over, does one edit the
env.file to set MEM=1024?)  
How's 'bout someone posting a doc file on how to get things going?
(thought I almost had it one time, having discovered some crc's on the boot
disk.  trashed the old one and started anew, but ng too)  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7381 S1/General Interest
    15-Oct-90  13:02:07
Sb: #7358-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Ah. I bet you forgot to set the "e pe" attributes on the new Grfdrv when you
placed it in your CMDS dir, maybe?

Leave the MEM= at 512K... I don't think gshell knows about more (but will use
it).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7400 S1/General Interest
    15-Oct-90  23:12:13
Sb: #7381-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Aha, I didn't forget to set grfdrv attributes when modifying DM3;  just forgot
to put it on the disk entirely! So now DM3 loads and executes well. Tried only
Calendar + data so far.  But in 3 tries,  after a few minutes, everything
locked up and a cold start was necessary.  Will experiment more tmw.  and then
on to MV!  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7404 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  00:18:16
Sb: #7400-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

HAHAHA!  Great grfdrv story... best I've heard!  Okay, keep at it.  But if
things locked up after a while, make sure that's the new vdgint in memory.

If it still locks up, you may have to add a resistor in where that jumper went
on R21 (?).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7411 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  07:00:50
Sb: #7404-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

So regular DM3 uses vdgint and not grvdrv and MV uses grvdrv and not vdgint? 
And the new vdgint and grfdrv are needed for both DM3 & MV?    So now where &
how is the mega command supposed to be implented? I see no opportunity for
invoking it in DM3. Maybe that's why it locked up?  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7418 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  16:10:18
Sb: #7411-#1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

mega should be run in your startup procedure file. DM3 requires vdgint since it
runs in a VDG type window. GrfInt in required for any non-VDG type window.
GrfInt requires GrfDrv. WindInt is a module who's command set is a "superset"
of GrfInt. WindInt therefore replaces GrfInt. WindInt is required to run the
Graphics Shell GShell, which comes with Multi-Vue. WindInt comes with
Multi-Vue. WindInt, like it's predecessor GrfInt, also requires the services of
GrfDrv. If you upgrade to 1Meg, you will need to patch GrfDrv if you expect to
use non-VDG type windows and you will need to patch VdgInt if you expect to use
VDG type windows. VdgInt and either GrfInt or WindInt goes in your bootlist.
GrfDrv has severe physical memory positioning requirements and therefore must
not be part of the OS9Boot file, but loaded in individually when GrfInt or
WindInt first needs it.

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7434 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  18:39:18
Sb: #7418-1 Meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Zack,
  Thanks for the info. I'll let it percolate for a while and re-try booting MV.
Yes, I made the new patches correctly since I have no problem using the upgrade
with a regular OS9 boot and I did place the modules correctly for OS9 it seems.
The  MFREE  shows about 880k with an initial 80 column text window and a couple
extra modules loaded at the same time.  btw. did I mention I got /d2 to work
with MV too. 
  (afterthought-  would OS9, MV, & DM3 patched for 1meg be expected to work for
a regular 512k CoCo-3?)    -ph-


#: 7302 S7/Telecommunications
    12-Oct-90  09:10:09
Sb: #Help modpatch
Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126
To: ALL

Hi,

I have never used modpatch before. The Telstar manual suggest making the patch:
modpatch
           1
           aciapak
           c
           383 46 3c

How would I go about doing this?

Thanks,

Butch Mooney

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7303 S7/Telecommunications
    12-Oct-90  09:24:33
Sb: #7302-Help modpatch
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X)

Butch... type "modpatch -?" for a help message.  Also read MODPAT.TXT in Lib 10
here (if it's still around).  However, try this:

Type: modpatch -s    (this means silent mode)
                     (then wait until it's in memory and type:)
      L aciapak      (that links to aciapak module)
      C 0383 46 3c   (that changes byte at offset $383 from $46 to $3C)
      V              (that reverifies aciapak module)
      CTRL-BREAK     ("ESCape"  leaves modpatch like end-of-file)

Now aciapak is changed and reverified, which means you now need to save it back
out to disk.  If you don't have save, look in Lib 9 here I think.

Or: if you are willing to change aciapak on bootup each time (instead of saving
out as above and making a new bootdisk with the patched module), type the above
3 lines (L,C,V lines) into a text file, and you should be able to put "modpatch
filename"  (filename = the text filename) in your Startup file... and it'll be
run each time you boot.

Yell if not clear.  Experiment a bit first and see what happens.

#: 7306 S7/Telecommunications
    12-Oct-90  16:53:25
Sb: #UUCP.AR
Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321
To: All

What is UUCP.AR  ??

Is it a Term program ?


>>Rod<<



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7312 S7/Telecommunications
    12-Oct-90  21:46:43
Sb: #7306-UUCP.AR
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 (X)

It's not a terminal program.  It's an archive of a collection of programs that
make it possible for computers that use a particular protocol to send one
another files.  Using it, computers running OS-9/6809 Level Two can hook into a
very large collection of systems collectively called USENET.

#: 7321 S7/Telecommunications
    13-Oct-90  05:04:43
Sb: #7306-UUCP.AR
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Rodney Harper 75130,1321 (X)

Hi Rodney!

uucp is an acronym and stands for Unix to Unix Copy Protocol.  It comes with
Unix/Xenix and now we have it for OS9 and OSK.  The package comprises many
programs allowing one to write, send, receive and read mail and to transfer
files to/from any site similarly equipped throughout the world. Normally,
connections are made to nearby sites (mostly colleges and universities and that
site will transfer to an adjacent site and so forth until the mail/file is
delivered (may take several days or even weeks).

UUCP is not interactive with you terminal.  It is normally invoked as a
background task by 'cron' and proceeds on its merry way executing instructions
you have previously entered.  Also, assuming you leave your computer and modem
on all the time, other sites can call you and pickup/ leave mail and files.

It's really a great package and Mark Griffith deserves acolades galore for his
efforts.  If you decide to try it, there are several of us on the forumn who
use it and will be glad to assist you getting started.  I suggest you pull it
down and read the docs - they tell you much more.

Ed

#: 7311 S7/Telecommunications
    12-Oct-90  19:58:43
Sb: #HELP
Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)


Hi Kevin,

 Thanks for the help I will give it a try. Let me ask you about one other
problem. I'm using OS9 Level II, Telstar, and DynaStar. Being a section leader
on the Pets Forum I uploaded a announcement. CIS's Manager's Manual says to use
a hard <CR> at the end of each line. That is what I thought I was doing when I
hit the enter key at the end of each line with DynaStar. But not so, the
announcement was not what I wrote. I did the same thing with RS-DOS and Word
Power and the announcement was just as I made it. Why couldn't I do this with
DynaStar? Can I change one of the filters in Telstar to correct this problem?

Thanks, Butch Mooney



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7317 S7/Telecommunications
    12-Oct-90  23:52:14
Sb: #7311-HELP
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Butch Mooney 76702,1126 (X)

Butch - Hmmm. Have to find someone using Telstar to answer that.  Yes, the
<ENTER> key should put a hard <CR> in all the editors I know.  Perhaps Telstar
is placing a LF in there also?

Easy way to check: do you have a dump or ded util to look at the file you have
on disk?  Look at the file and see if you see 0D (returns) in there where you
expect them.

#: 7313 S1/General Interest
    12-Oct-90  22:21:14
Sb: #HELP
Fm: DICK SHARP 75266,2621
To: SYSOP (X)

 I keep hearing the wd MULTIVIEused and see a number of programs that require
MULTIVIEW to opperate. Just what is it. TANDY calls it a graphics interface
(HUH???? . Also being new to OS9 i am wondering about the ARC (actually de-arc)
programs to unpack the files. Is this a bound unit that runs under OS9 or a
machine language file that runs under RSDOS. One more question please. I am
rung MTERM ,and how do I save files that are to be run under the OS9
system;must I have a OS9 formatted disk or RSDOs.
 Every question seems to generate another one but I will stop here for now.
        Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.
                                                    Dick Sharp

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7318 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  00:00:05
Sb: #7313-#HELP
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: DICK SHARP 75266,2621 (X)

Hi Dick.  Multi-Vue is an additional package from RS which gives you two main
things to play with... first, the enhanced Windint module to replace your
current GrfInt modules (Windint adds pulldown menus, etc)... and second, the
GShell (gfx shell) programs if you wish to start things with icons etc.

The AR archiver program most often used here for files, is specific to OS9.
It's available in Lib 9 (utils) under the name AR09.BIN and AR.DOC.  We'll be
glad to help with its usage.

Virtually nothing here in this forum runs under RSDOS, with the exception of a
tool to make RSDOS disks readable under OS9... which is what you need for
transfering files using MTerm.  Look in Lib 10 (coco) here for RSDOS.BAS (I
think!... it's RSDOS.???)  which is the rsdos basic program to do this.

Then you can download under rsdos (until you get comfortable with/get an os9
term program) and run that program to create an os9 directory on the rsdos
disk.  You then boot to os9 and copy the files to a real os9 disk.

I hope someone jumps in with the real filename for that util.  Guys??

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7332 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  09:53:27
Sb: #7318-#HELP
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I think the util that you're talking about is DOSOR9, isn't it?

Lee

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7347 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  21:22:10
Sb: #7332-HELP
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752 (X)

Oops.  Right... DOSOR9.BAS it is.

Thanks Lee!

#: 7325 S1/General Interest
    13-Oct-90  08:59:14
Sb: #7313-#HELP
Fm: Bruce MacKenzie 71725,376
To: DICK SHARP 75266,2621 (X)

Dick,
     What you need to get you going downloading os9 files with an rsdos term
program is the file DOSOR9.BAS in library 10.  This is an rsdos utility which
writes an os9 directory on a rsdos disk making it readable under os9.  With
this you can download files to a fresh rsdos disk, run the utility and then
copy the files to an os9 disk under os9.
     I would suggest that the first thing you do once you have downloaded
DOSOR9 is to use it to download one of the os9 based file inport/export
utilities in the library (such as RSDOS.AR in library 9) then forget about
DOSOR9 since it is a bit clumsy to use.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7540 S1/General Interest
    18-Oct-90  21:55:54
Sb: #7325-HELP
Fm: DICK SHARP 75266,2621
To: Bruce MacKenzie 71725,376 (X)

Thanks all for your help. I am going to look int"WARP ONE " by Alpha Software.
It is a OS-9 terminal package.
            Dick.

#: 7316 S15/Hot Topics
    12-Oct-90  23:30:04
Sb: #Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: all

All,

Any reactions on the Fest in Atlanta that y ou would like to pass on to me and
the folks at IMS?

We want to know what you thought, and how we might b e able to serve you a
little better.

BTW congrats to DINAH PHILLIPS, who won a Personal MM/1, and called recently to
upgrade it to an Extended!

Paul

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7322 S15/Hot Topics
    13-Oct-90  05:18:45
Sb: #7316-#Fest
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Well...let's see.  I was highly impressed.  (Were I less inhibited, I'd
probably jump up and down and say "I want my MM/1," but I know you're working
as hard as possible to get them out the door, so that really wouldn't help
anyway. :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7420 S15/Hot Topics
    16-Oct-90  17:20:39
Sb: #7322-Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Actually, the jumping up and down greatly excites our sales director, Mary Kay.
She likes positive vibes from our burgeoning MM/1 constituency!

Paual Oops, Paul.



#: 7324 S15/Hot Topics
    13-Oct-90  08:08:59
Sb: #7316-#Fest
Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Hi Paul,
        I didn't make it to the Atlanta 'Fest, but I have already seen a lot of
messages from those who did (here and on D****I and some local boards via
various national relays.
        The MM1 seems to have made a big hit.  Lots of comments on it (and
FHL's machines).  Also more messages about OS9 in general.
        BTW - the money that I DIDN'T spend on airline tickets,
        Atlanta Hotel room, etc, will buy memory and a hard disk
        for MY MM/1.  (Soon, I hope).
                                        Best,
                                                JohnW

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7421 S15/Hot Topics
    16-Oct-90  17:24:36
Sb: #7324-#Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X)

Interesting -
FHL had some Hazelwood KBus cards on display, but no TC9 or TC70. Delmar, a
reseller for Peripheral Technologies, had systems there. I have heard that OS-9
on them can be flaky (hopefully they are more stable than the one I have used!)
but those VGA graphics looked great. About the same res as the MM/1, but the
contrast was nicer than on our CM-8/Multisync. Still, VGA is NOT NTSC
compatible, so you'd be out of luck with a PTif you wanted to save your stuff
on tape.

It looks like PT and IMS will be doing some business together, too. They seem
eager and competent and pleased to be working with us to provide some support
to our growing OSK community!

Exciting times!

Paul

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7465 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  15:53:56
Sb: #7421-#Fest
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)


Paul:

I was appalled to read your message to John Wainwright (message #7421). It
appears that your marketing strategy is based on Madison Ave's first tenet,
"appeal to the 85 per cent".  (From Thomas A Edison's, "Five per cent of the
people think, ten per cent of the people think they think and eighty-five per
cent of the people would rather die than think".)  Statements like 'I have
heard' and 'flaky' say nothing concrete but can certainly have some very
negative connotations.  If there are problems with your PT, what are they?  I
understand you purchased your PT second hand.  The original buyer put it
together from a kit.  Also, if we have traced things properly, he received
version 1.4 of OS9/68000 - a version of OS9/68000 replete with problems
regardless of the machine on which it was installed.  We are currently shipping
version 2.3 and will ship version 2.4 when it is released.  What have you heard
about the SYSTEM IV?  If you really want to know about the SYSTEM IV, why don't
you buy one?  We will certainly be happy to sell you one and we can deliver
*immediately*.

You used the term 'CM-8/Multisync'.  I was not aware that the CM-8 is a
multisync monitor.  The CM-8, as provided by Tandy, is a 300 x 225 monitor. 
Tricks can be played to make it look like as good as a higher resolution
monitor, but it can still only display low resolution graphics. Or, are you
refering to the Magnavox monitor?  While better than the Tandy CM-8, it still
does not approach accepted VGA standards.

How many people want an NTSC output?  Yes, you can video tape your output. Try
reading a 80 character screen on a TV.  That's why people went to monitors in
the first place and if 80 character is hard to read, how good can the graphics
be?  The 68070/66470 chip set does support NTSC capability but the trade-off is
a compromise of the graphics capability so it is not as good as VGA provides. 
Since the SYSTEM IV allows the use of existing PC/XT boards, NTSC is available
to the user (but we do not currently support NTSC boards).

(continued next message)



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7466 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  15:54:47
Sb: #7465-#Fest
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

(continued from previous message)

The entire community is still waiting to hear what is in the $600.00 worth of
'free software' you are bundling with your machine.  I haven't heard much about
that lately, did you drop that offer?  Also, about a month ago, you refered to
a 'K4 killer'.  What is it - where is it?  If our machine is as poor as you
intimate, you have nothing to worry about - word will get around very quickly.

You have engaged in a great deal of competitor bashing - first against Frank
Hogg Laboratories and now against DELMAR.  Actually, I guess we should be
flattered.  It is apparant that you are worried that our machines may be
superior to the MM/1 and want to instill, in the 85%, fears about your
competition.  If you have facts, then please state them.  You are not yet in a
position to make comparisons of the various machines since your machine is
*NOT* in production nor have you delivered any production units (unless you
count units built by hand on a 'kitchen table').  Of course, you *HAVE*
delivered a lot of hype!  Therefore, you do not know what problems will occur
with the MM/1 in the field.  Neither DELMAR nor PERIPHERAL TECHNOLOGY will make
claims they cannot support.  Nor do we make advertising claims about what we
might do in the future.

There is a market place for all of the entries.  Engaging in competitor bashing
will serve only to destroy the market place and not serve anyone's interests. 
Go ahead, make your claims - I sincerely hope the MM/1 will live up to them,
but if it doesn't, be prepared for your competitors to talk about your
failures.  If you find a problem with a competitor's product then talk about
the problem - but otherwise, ".... people who live in glass houses ....".

(continued)



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7467 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  15:56:24
Sb: #7466-#Fest
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

(continued from previous message)

I have a great deal of respect for your technical people and want to continue
working with them.  I must empathise with them if they have to back up your
claims.  However, the ethical standards you are following are causing us to
review the desirability of our continuing any association with you or IMS.  I
can only assume that your close proximaty to the politicians in Washington has
influenced your standards.

Our mutual interests center around providing our customers with real software
(not vaporware).  May we expect some professionalism from you and your company
in the future?

 Ed Gresick
 DELMAR CO

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7486 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  22:14:00
Sb: #7467-#Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

Although I will respond to your message to me in the order in which the topics
appeared in your note, I want to make several global points.

Never have I said anything untrue in our marketing "hype".

Second, I have always been a gentleman to you and to all the people that have
worked on the MM/1 project. All you have to do is ask any of them.

Third, I apologize if you think I slammed the PT technology at all. I >DO< have
a PT and it is pretty fast. It needs some driver work in a serious way, though.
A friend of mine runs OSK on his own PT and his hard drive just crashed. Now,
just because there are problems with some machines, does not mean that the PT
line is at fault, and I WAS NOT USING COMPUSERVE AS A FORUM TO SLAM YOUR
PRODUCT.

Period.

Now, I would like to respond to your note, and if I run on, I will do as you
did, and make the note from Paul Ward to Paul Ward, just to help you get the
stuff in bite-size chunks.

OK, you are right. I have not heard a thing about the system iv. I have a K2,
and it is an older design, as you know, probably with older drivers. (Of
course, please don't go slamming the MM/1 because it is new. After all, if I
cannot comment on your machine without having worked with it, you cannot do the
same.)

Also, I DO NOT think that 85% of the people do not think. You and I have talked
enough for you to know that I am a respectful person.

Especially of the customers. This is why IMS is doing what it is doing, and I
will GLADLY discuss on the phone with you why it is ultimately an act of
respect to our customers that 1) we are doing things with OSK that have never
been done before, in terms of ease of use and innovative applications in the
home and business, 2) we are offering a highly integrated and affordable
system, 3) that I have traveled to Texas and Silicon Valley to successfully get
companies to port stuff to the MM/1.

When I said CM8/Multisync, I meant CM-8 or Multisync.

That was a typgraphic problem, sorry if it was deceptive.

About reading 80 columns on a TV -- I would be glad to send you a whole stack
of articles on a hot new

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7487 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  22:17:47
Sb: #7486-#Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

subject called Corporate Desktop Video -- in general, desktop video will become
a nice new hobby for business and pleasure alike. IMS is creating multimedia
authoring tools that integrate nicely with the 66470 and our stereo sound/MIDI
that should make putting natural images, voice, and music on video tape a snap.
So your comment about 80 column text on a TV is exactly true, but not relevant
to what I was getting at.

OTOH, I recall mentioning the NTSC thing as a way of distinguishing PT's VGA
output with ours -- so I was doing some marketing. VGA looks great, Ed! And
personally, if I caould get VGA quality with an NTSC compatible output for
cheap -- I'd do it! However, the 66470 gives results similar to VGA and still
makes desktop video viable.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7491 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  22:26:18
Sb: #7487-#Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

OK, the software that we include has been in our brochures and on Compuserve
for months, Ed. Here is a list.

Included at no extra charge with the MM/1: OSK 2.3 (2.4 when it stabilizes),
but also with the prerelease version of variable sector size RBF. C compiler,
Basic, Assembler, two telecom packages, uucp, Network File Manager, PC File
Manager, Sequential Block File Manager, graphics editor, text editor, print
spooling, network mail system, full utilities set, and demos. Also included
will be discount coupons on some software by members in our Interactive Media
Systems Developer's Assocation.

I actually refrained from competition bashing for months, Ed, until I got sick
and tired of being bashed myself. It is VERY frustrating keeping absolutely
silent while competitors lie and make faces. However, please note that NOTHING
I said about your machine was actually bad. I even said that VGA looks great in
that original note! And also note that when I mentioned the flaky OSK on the
K2, it was based on first hand experience with a productionboard.

That doesn't mean that the K4 will be flaky at all.

Yes, I have delivered hype. However, hype with performance. Signetics was
significantly impressed that they asked IMS to send our system to California
for an applications engineers conference in Silicon Valley. And we will be
offering QuickBasic. And we will be offering a GUI -- and so on. Not everything
happens at once, and if we kept quiet about what we were working on, IMS and
all the rest would risk losing a market that is very unique.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7494 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  22:33:29
Sb: #7491-#Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Ed,

and while we're on it, I want to mention that the machines at the Fest were
production designs. If we were to have a large stock of production mass
manufactured machines sitting in a warehouse while FCC approval is still in the
works, we would by tying up capital. That is bad business, as you know. I hope
that clarifies that! BTW, we at IMS TRULY  believe that the OSK market can and
will take off. That is why we are getting our systems FCC approved, a tedious
process that starts int he design phase with ferite beads on the connectors,
appropriate case choice, and so on. This is not Hype, Ed. FCC approval means
business.

The hand assembled production design machines have been in the field for two
months with no problems at all. This is why we feel great about our warranty.

I am truly sorry that you think that I am not acting professionally. I think
maybe I overstepped my bounds by providing some background experience with an
older K2 to someone on the forum. If that offended you or your company, I am
deeply sorry.

Once again, I thnk everyone who knows me would disagree with your assessment
that DC politics have affected me negatively. I and the other folks here are
truly trying to do good honest work.

If you have specific suggestions about how I can do this work better, please
let me know!

What is vaporware, by the way, of the things IMS has promised?

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7512 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  08:23:04
Sb: #7494-#Fest
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul,

Re your PT - have you contacted Peripheral Technology regarding upgrades to
your system?  PT has made available to its customers upgrades to the software
they provided including the Operating System.  Some are provided at no charge
and the rest at a nominal charge.  DELMAR will continue this practice for
purchasers of the SYSTEM IV.

Regarding my ignorance of what you are offering.  On at least two occassions,
in private conversations, you promised to put me on your mailing list to
receive your newsletter.  I have yet to receive the first one.

I hope you will refrain from comments about the SYSTEM IV in the future unless
you have *FACTS* including details.  Please note that neither I as an
individual nor DELMAR CO has ever referred to the MM/1 in public forumn prior
to my message to you.  Nor have we made any reference to the MM/1 in our
announcements or advertising.  I do not intend to in the future unless
compelled to.  And, I don't really remember anyone 'bashing' the MM/1 although
many members of this forumn have asked you questions about your machine.

Ed





There is 1 Reply.

#: 7563 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  18:06:32
Sb: #7512-#Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

Per our excellent and production conversation on the phone today, I want to
extend my unconditional apology to you, DELMAR, Fred Brown, the the and the
SIGops of CompuServe for allowing a comment to come from my keyboard that

   1) Made a statement about the problems experienced with K2 systems
      from PT without accompanyint CONSTRUCTIVE information
   2) Hinted at marketing hype (although intermixed with some
      facts), even though I have long believed, as you do too, that
      the Forum is no place for marketing hype, and certainly no
      place for the President of one company to create uncertainty
      about the products of another.

I am sorry I goofed. I have tried to keep the high road in the past, as many of
our friends know well. They, and I, are surprises at what I did.

So, in the future, I'll be more careful, and aware that the role that I play
here, and that IMS plays, should be an example of gentlemanliness.

And, I must say, Ed, it is a pleasure to have spoken with you, cleared this up,
and made it possible for us to continue what has been a longstanding
relationship based on openness and respect.

Best regards,

Paul Ward President Interactive Media Systems, Reformed

<grin>

Talk to you soon!



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7589 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  04:24:43
Sb: #7563-Fest
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

Paul,

Apology accepted.

Now, go back to work and make some MM/1s - you have customers waiting.

Ed

#: 7478 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  20:53:38
Sb: #7421-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul

Don't you think it's time to cut this crap and stop the lies about FHL, the
Tomcat and what we are doing. You know full well that we had both a TC9 display
prototype and a TC70 working prototype at the show! Your own Kevin Pease was at
our booth and spent quite a bit of time examining both of them. Why do you
insist on telling these kind of lies!

This is not the first time you have made off the wall statements that are not
true. I know that you are not technical nor a programmer and cannot be expected
to be correct in matters of that kind but this does not explain your incessant
use of lies when talking about FHL.

For someone who has yet to deliver even one product you seem to spend a lot of
time putting down those of us who have been in business and delivering product
for years. Before you make any more negative comments about what I am doing I
suggest you put up or shut up!

Better yet... Put up AND shut up!

This coming December I will start my FIFTHEENTH year in business! You're new
and only in business a few months. I don't think the guys who have been around
appreciate your approach to doing business. If they see you lying about your
competition they will think you are lying about your own product. Seeing that
you have yet to deliver on any of your many claims this could be a disaster for
you. Maybe this tactic will work for awhile, but not for long. Who was it that
said you could fool some of the people some of the time etc etc.

Clean up your act and tell the truth or say nothing. If your MM1 is any good it
will speak for itself and this kind of BS will not be necessary.

Best of luck

Frank Hogg

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7496 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  22:44:23
Sb: #7478-#Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

First, I want to apologize to you deeply.

I was told by Kevin Pease and two others that you had neither machine at the
Fest and working. I was told that, instead, you had your KBus systems there,
and as we both know, KBus systems have been around for a while and are in good
use.

I personally did not have a chance to stop by your booth and examine it, and I
should in fact have kept my mouth shut.

However, please recall that I did have several independent sources say that you
had neither system at the Fest, and it was an assumption that was further
reinforced by your comment at our seminar that you were unprepared for the
Fest.

Once again, I am deeply sorry for the error. If anyone who was at the Fest
would kindly upload a report on the TC9 and TC70 that they saw -- running or
not -- at the Fest, I would read it with great interest.

In the future, I know I can trust you to spot these errors on my part, and I
for one am delighted that so many people got to see your machines at the Fest
-- assuming of course they were there, and I have no way of knowing either way
since I did not get over there. I do wonder how the other folks at the Fest
were so uniformly mistaken?

Can you clear this up?

As for vaporware, please note that we had several demos, games, and windowed
IFF and GIF viewers at our booth, thanks to the hard work of several
developers, who have been using MM/1s since April.

If I used the term vaporware with regard to your system (I don't think I did),
I am sorry -- I certainly understand that your TC70 and TC9 are coming along,
and will be ready sometime soon. I don't call works in progress vaporware. Nor
should you -- we have many works in progress at IMS, including home networking,
WYSIWYG library support, graphics and animation, and so on. When they are
ready, they are ready! They would only be vaporware if we announced them as
shipping and we were lying!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7506 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  00:42:55
Sb: #7496-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul,

I accept your apology.

Now if you would just not mention FHL, the Tomcats or make any comments about
same you would make me very happy. I in turn will not say anything about your
MM1.

Let's let them stand on their own and let the guys who use tham talk.

I will upload complete information on both the TC9 and TC70 when I am ready to
do so.

BTW what 'other folks' are you talking about, name them please. I cannot clear
up what your comment refers to unless I know what you are talking about. As far
as people at the fest seeing the TC9 and TC70, I am sure not all of them did,
after all I was mobbed in the booth the whole show and could not have been able
to show everyone there.

You, Ed I, and everyone else would be better served if we spent our time
getting these machines out instead wasting time here with this BS.

Please be cautious in the future to either get your facts straight or say
nothing, I don't want to have to waste another evening like this.

Enough said!

Good luck with the MM1.

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7580 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  23:25:34
Sb: #7506-Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

And good luck with your TC9 and TC70!

I agree, this has truly been a waste of time and energy!

Well, I guess it goes to show that even a courteous person like myself can be
discourteous -- advertently, as I did with Ed, or inadvertently, as I did with
you -- on occasion.

As I said, sorry about that. I am pleased to be picking up and moving on, as
you are!

Paul

#: 7477 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  20:53:01
Sb: #7324-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X)

Dear John

In Paul Wards message #7421 to you he made statements about FHL that were lies.
We had both a display TC9 and a working prototype of the TC70 at the Atlanta
show. Kevin Pease, an employee of IMS and designer of the MM1 spent quite a bit
of time examining both of them. Kevin even ran his benchmark on one of the
running production Tomcats at the booth where it ran about 50% faster than the
MM1.

This is not the first time Mr Ward has made false statements about us here on
CIS and other places. I don't know why he lies about us but it does show his
colors. Therefore I would suggest you take that into consideration whenever he
makes any claims about us, other companies, or even his own products.

Remember that IMS has only been in business for a few months and so far they
have not delivered anything. On the other hand their hype about their product
and negative comments about us and others has been prolific.

Let the buyer beware, as the saying goes.

There has always been strong competition in the OS9 world. There was even a
time when it was almost this raw. I would prefer to keep things on a higher
level and have been quiet till now. But outright lies have to be addressed, I
wish I did not have to waste my time and yours with this kind of crap. Perhaps,
as a buyer of an MM1 you could suggest to Paul that this is not in his best
interest nor in the best interest of the OS9 community.

Best of luck to you.

Frank Hogg

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7499 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  23:13:55
Sb: #7477-#Fest
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)


Frank,

As I have already said to both Ed and Paul in private mail, and now I am saying
not only to you, but to all three of you in the public forum:

You are hurting the OS9 community with all of this public bickering over
differences in each of your systems. If each of you would stick to specifics of
EXACTLY what your OWN systems do and do not support, and REFRAIN from
mentioning any of the other systems, then all of us would benefit. All three of
you are starting to sound like spoiled children, instead of the intelligent
businessmen that I know you are.

Bill

There are 4 Replies.

#: 7505 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  00:32:31
Sb: #7499-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

Hear Hear

I agree with you on all counts and I wish that the circumstances did not occur
that brought this on. However now that it has come to a head I for one hope
that it is over. I do not expect to have to do this again unless forced to
answer another untruth. I would prefer that the facts about what I am doing
came from me rather that translated untruths from others. Perhaps now that will
happen. Your message will not fall on deaf ears I am sure.

BTW shouldn't this public message have been sent to Paul.

Frank

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7510 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  07:57:43
Sb: #7505-Fest
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

It was to all three of you, look at the first sentence in the message. I was
NOT picking on you, and I'm NOT taking sides, your message was the one I just
happened to reply to.

Bill

#: 7576 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  23:01:16
Sb: #7505-Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

No need to send it to me, Frank! I responded!

And I am glad, too, that we got a reminder to keep the forum clean and
gentlemanly. I truly meant it when I said that I did not deliberately screw up
-- but what happened, happened. Next time, I'll learn not to trust the folks
who give me reports if I can't verify with my own eyes, and EVEN THEN -- as
President of IMS -- I must needs keep my mouth shut, even if I am tempted to
disclose something I feel strongly about.

I think Ed and I patched things up nicely, BTW. It's good to be on gentlemanly
terms with him. He's a great guy.

Best regards,

Paul

#: 7507 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  02:34:11
Sb: #7499-#Fest
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

I don't think it hurts OS9 itself... just shows the (nervous :-) fervor of the
various vendors.  I agree, they should mention only their own system. That
said, I'm now going to add my own public exasperation at all those very poorly
thought out messages:

To Paul (#7421) - You sure wrote a dumb message, eh?  If you meant the PT68K2,
you should've said so.  Mentioning DELMAR in the same breath was wrong, too.
And never say "but no TC9 or TC70" or "the contrast was nicer" etc... as a
machine competitor you're obliged to add "I personally didn't see XXX" or "to
me the contrast seemed nicer", etc, if you must say anything.

To Ed (#7465-67) - A little overkill on the reply, wasn't there?  Nothing like
taking one sentence and turning it into a bash fest.  You could, and should,
have resolved this by phone or email.  Also, your message noted that one OSK
version was indeed flaky... which amusingly backed up his message.  Lots more,
but all in all you went way overboard.  Oh, and "CM-8/multisync" was obvious to
_everyone_ else as shorthand for "CM-8 or multisync".

To Frank (#7477-78,7506) - CIS forum regulars try to assume that an honest or
simple mistake was made, instead of calling someone a liar.  Worse, vague
accusations without backup facts is a no-no.  Besides making YOU look bad, it
also opens your messages for similar inspection:  I saw no working TC70
prototype at the show, either.  A supposedly working card which was never
hooked up, yes.  And sure, Pease ran his program on a 16Mhz 68000 K-Bus card;
your message implied it was done on a TC70.  Am I also a "liar"?  Or just
honestly mistaken?

To all 3 -  There is no need to point out that a competitor has dumped on your
machine... readers are smart people.  Please try to work out things behind the
scenes, then post corrections in public.  Even tho I work for all of you, I
will not hesitate to singe the next one to step out of bounds. And by golly, my
flames are hot and reach far ;-).  Thanks! - kev

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7514 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  09:05:49
Sb: #7507-Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev and everyone,

I reread my message about Kevin Pease and it said, "Kevin even ran his
benchmark on one of the running production Tomcats at the booth where it ran
about 50% faster than the MM1" I think the wording "running production Tomcats"
made a clear distinction between it and the wording "working prototype of the
TC70". I don't think this implied that they were the same and would be quite
surprised if anyone could think that. I always try to be very clear about the
comments I make so that there is never any misunderstanding. Perhaps this was a
poor example of what you were trying to illustrate, that honest mistakes can be
made. While I agree that this is the case most of the time, Paul's statement
was the last in a line of things that taken together have not been taken for
'honest mistakes'. I don't think it would be a good idea to list them here so I
won't, but I will in private to you or Paul if you would like, just give me a
call.

I certainly agree that this type of thing should be kept behind the scenes.
Probably all of you feel that way. Remember that it was HIS message here in
public that finally triggered the response it did. I haven't been on this forum
for some time and although I may have made comments in the past, I do not
believe they were as prolific nor as pointed as Paul's. It is annoying to have
to be put in a position to either stay quiet and let these kind of things go or
have to defend yourself against unfair attacks. I lose either way. Sometimes I
think I would be better off ignoring all of the forums and just concentrate on
work, it sure would be less aggravating.

(continued)

#: 7515 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  09:06:44
Sb: #7507-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

(continued from last message)

However perhaps this will do some good and cause Paul to think twice before
making comments without thinking about how his wording will affect others. He
is new to this while the rest of us have been doing this for many years and
know how the game is played. If something positive comes out of this then it
will have been worth it.

I hope that this ends what has been an annoying waste of time for me. I do not
enjoy this and hope that this message ends it.

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7548 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  00:36:25
Sb: #7515-#Fest
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank - please allow me to be plainer:

As you indicated, unclear messages can appear to be intentionally misleading.
So can wrong technical information, or even personal opinions.  There's no
debate there.  It especially happens over electronic media.

The problem from my forum standpoint with your and Ed's messages was that you
both took a negative comment about HARDWARE, and replied not with clear
corrective facts, but with PERSONAL attacks and innuendos... and I can't
emphasize how petty, silly, mean and just plain off-the-point that was!

I should know. I did it myself once many years back... and still regret it.

In other words, if y'all want to beat up on each others' machines or opinions,
I don't think most people would really mind.  But there's a heckuva lot of
difference between going into someone's store and saying "your merchandise
doesn't work", versus telling the store owner that "you're a SOB".  And worse,
continuing in that vein more than once.

As a businessman you should appreciate this difference a lot. thx and pax - kev

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7570 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  20:26:40
Sb: #7548-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

You state that I am making personal attacks that are "petty, silly, mean and
off-the-point." Isn't that the same as you saying that >I< am petty, silly, and
mean.

Isn't THAT a personal attack from you about ME?

(heh heh)

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7587 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  02:59:32
Sb: #7570-Fest
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank -

Nah, it's the same as saying that when _I_ engaged in personal attacks on this
forum years ago, it was "petty, silly, mean, and off-the-point".

Personal attacks didn't solve anything then... didn't help now.

And that's partly the reason that tens of forums (here and elsewhere) over the
past few years know this very well: a personal attack on _anyone_, friend or
foe of mine, always results in me jumping on the attacker(s).

Just figure it as Karma for my _own_ past mistakes <wry grin>. - kev

#: 7571 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  20:27:13
Sb: #7548-Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

You state that "you both took a negative comment about HARDWARE, and replied
not with clear corrective facts, but with PERSONAL attacks and innuendos..."

WRONG! His comments about me were not about hardware but his claim that I did
not have two products at Atlanta when in fact I DID have them there! He said
something incorrect about ME and MY COMPANY, not the hardware. His subtle
inference by this statement was that because they were not there then maybe
something was wrong...

Why else would he even mention it?

Could his intent have been to get that information out in a public forum where
it might start a rumor or do some other damage? Why would he even mention it if
this were not the case??? He also did the same thing in print when in his 1st
newsletter he made another untrue statement that said in effect that FHL showed
a computer at the Chicago Rainbowfest 'based on the discontinued GIMI chip'. As
you know the GIMI is not discontinued and nobody bases a computer on a graphics
chip anyway.

Was his intent to discredit the Tomcat and FHL?

If he wished to inform his readers then that was a very strange way to describe
a competitors product. (continued)

#: 7572 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  20:27:50
Sb: #7548-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

(continued from last message)

When a lawyer in court makes an incorrect statement the opposing lawyer jumps
up and yells OBJECTION! OBJECTION! and the judge decides. The jury hears both
sides. The lawyer who objects does not whisper his objection in the ear of the
other lawyer. The 1st lawyer (Paul) said it to the jury (the forum) and because
of that the 2nd lawyer (Me) had to jump up and yell so the jury (the forum)
would know the truth.

On this very public forum when one companies President makes a very serious
statement that is untrue (a lie) then only a fool would remain silent. I jumped
up and yelled LIE! LIE! because if I just quietly said something 'behind the
scenes' then the lie would remain for hundreds (thousands?) to see.

I regret having to use strong language like the word 'lie' but I felt I had to
make sure that everyone who saw Paul's message would be SURE to know it was not
true. If I felt it could have been done without that word I would have done so.

I have a lot riding on this, it's not just a hobby, I hope you and everyone
else understands how I feel.

I have now wasted several days on this... I think it should now end, and
everyone (you too Kevin) go back to work on their respective projects.

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7588 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  02:59:55
Sb: #7572-Fest
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

Yah, it's been a fair waste of time (as we all four have talked about on the
phone).  A typical electronic media comedy of errors and over-reaction;
something we all see now and again.... which is why I had said in my first
message, that talking to the person you think has slighted you (or _has_
slighted you) by phone or email FIRST, makes a heckuva lot more sense :-).
Certainly easier all around.

I think that (as we talked about) a weekly phone call between you three would
make even more sense... so that real and imagined grievances are taken care of
immediately, instead of festering for months.

You also brought up a good point when you said that Paul didn't yet realize
that as a company President, he cannot afford to make the same verbal slips
that anyone else can <grin>.  A similar view came up when I had talked to Ed
yesterday, as he was (and probably still is) convinced that my bashing on "Ed
Gresick" is the same as slamming "DELMAR".  Therefore I wonder if it wouldn't
be better all around if all three of y'all changed your forum handles to your
Company names?  Or better yet <wink>, get a second CIS number?

As we all have said tonight, live and learn! <sigh>  - kev

#: 7573 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  20:59:02
Sb: #7507-#Fest
Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin (& Paul, & Frank, & Ed)
  It just looks to me like some of the (previously) good-natured zaps that have
been flying since the Chicago 'Fest caught a couple guys in a bad mood (bad day
maybe?).
  When did everybody quit smiling?
                                                     JohnW

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7577 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  23:12:19
Sb: #7573-Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X)

Kevin,

Oops, John, I mean (fingers are tired tonight!)

I think I started this whole mess by tripping up when making a two comments
right after the Fest. One was unfair to Ed, the other was an honest mistake
about Frank's statements about the TC9 and TC70 being shown at the Fest.

I think it is generally agreed that I, Ed, and Frank, have a responsibility to
act to boost our own products and not to detract from the others. The two
comments I made -- brief, and unknowingly bad form -- were a sign that I
faltered from the usual high ground that I take.

After reading the fallout comments that have been made bya all concerned, I
have to agree that, myself included, the three of us have let some childishness
slip in.

So, in the spirit of picking up and moving on, I've put a smile back on my
face, made up with Ed Gresick, and in general been trying to smooth things
over.

I think CompuServe's OS9 Forum gurus, especially Bill and Kevin, are right on
the money when they take the position that we have screwed up, and I am
grateful for the gentle slap.

Paul

#: 7511 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  08:21:19
Sb: #7499-#Fest
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

Bill (and Kevin and Jim Jones),

Yes, I was very upset by Paul Ward's statements.  The costs to promote a new
product are substantial.  And Gentlemen, DELMAR CO is not using customer or
invester money - it is coming out of my pocket!  And let us not forget who made
the statements in the first place.  Paul Ward's statements were incomplete in
the one case and totally false in the second.  Over-reacted? Maybe - but with
cause.

I've noticed that Paul is still continuing his practice.  In his response to me
he stated "A friend of mine runs OSK on his own PT and his hard drive just
crashed.  Now, just because there are problems with some machines, does not
mean that the PT line is at fault, ...".  No details.  Why even mention it if
the PT line is not at fault unless the intent is to imply that maybe it is!  I
realize that you have a vested interest in IMS in one manner or another - but
do remember, Paul's statements are bordering on product slander.

Kevin - I've noticed that when someone has a problem, you ask for complete
details to establish the cause of the problem.  Wearing my marketeer hat, I
feel completely justified in demanding similar details when a product I'm
associated with has problems - what are the details so I can determine what is
the cause and if correction is called for, do so.  Paul Ward has yet to provide
this information.

I've had my say so let's go along with Frank's message (#7505) and get back to
contructive work.

Ed



There are 4 Replies.

#: 7530 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  17:58:33
Sb: #7511-#Fest
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Just a minor comment here, to avoid any possible misunderstanding...my
interests in IMS are two: first, I have a deposit in on an MM/1; second, I wish
them well, as I do *anyone* producing a computer that will run some version of
OS-9.

'Nuff said--as you said, let's return to constructive work.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7531 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  18:00:39
Sb: #7530-Fest
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Sigh--one last added item.  (Sorry, folks.)  Any and all opinions I express
here are my opinions, and have no necessary correlation with those of any
organization.

#: 7549 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  00:37:03
Sb: #7511-Fest
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed - please see my msg #7548.

BTW, one of the ads at your fest booth contained an insert containing benchmark
comparisons with the older MM/1 prototypes.  Where those not from your company?
Or was your msg 7512 in error?

I bring that up to simply point out that every one of us has skeletons and
so-called "falsehoods" hanging around.  I'm sure that _anyone's_ messages could
be picked apart and made out to be deliberate slander:

I'm also politely suggesting that correcting Paul's statement could have been
done without spending three message slots dredging up every negative statement
you could think of... a form of attack which not one of us on the forum could
withstand or decently defend ourselves from, once started.  I think most people
enjoy technical and opinion arguments... it's part of what forums are for. 
It's the personal parts and veiled hints that people don't like.

Just as you said, complete details _are_ needed.  If you and Frank care to make
up a list of all these previous times you've been bashed, and send it to me
email, I'd be happy to read them.  thx and pax - kev

#: 7551 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  07:40:25
Sb: #7511-Fest
Fm: Mark B. Sheffield 76247,1332
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed -

Regarding the financing of our respective companies, it does cost a lot to
produce and promote a new product. We both know that good business practice
dictates financing such ventures with investment (whether by ourselves or other
investors) and NOT from customer money other than profits from sales. IMS has
NOT used customer deposits to fund our venture, as you suggested.

Now let's get on with producing and promoting our nmachines, shall we?

-mark

#: 7578 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  23:20:55
Sb: #7511-Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

It was good to clear the air with you on the phone today. In reference to the
people I mentioned, I would like to refer them to you! You were very happy to
deal with PT customers who have trouble, and I would like to commend you
publicly on your quick response to one K4 customer who had a little trouble.
You reported to me today that this K4 customer is just fine now.

I certainly did not intend to do the kind of damage that I apparently did, both
to you and the OS9 Forum. I think things are settling down nicely, and I am
glad that you and I have discussed and agreed upon general principles of
conduct that -- sadly -- I let slip!

I am not malicious at all, but if that was my effect, I certainly restate my
apology. I think everyone will agree that, based on who I am and what I
generally stand for, and based on who YOU are and what you generally stand for,
it is a good thing that we worked out this topic privately and here.

Best wishes on the K4, and with Delmar, who has been creating multiuser point
of sale systems successfully for several years. Cheers!

Paul

#: 7575 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  22:57:22
Sb: #7499-Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

Bill,

Thanks for the reminder. I try to take the "high road", but I did fail for a
time.

Now I think I can get back to normal!

(once-deranged Mad Marketer, regaining dignity)

Paul

#: 7398 S15/Hot Topics
    15-Oct-90  23:06:40
Sb: #7316-Fest
Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

I daresay that yours was one of the more popular booths. Waht else can I say so
that you might serve us better? <grin>
   Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products

#: 7323 S3/Languages
    13-Oct-90  05:26:15
Sb: #c_problem
Fm: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300
To: pete lyall

hi pete,
      here is the new version of the same problem(C 'getime',remember?)
#include <stdio.h> #include <time.h> main() struct sgtbuf buffer; int(ti);
ti=0; { getime(&buffer); ti=atoi(buffer.t_second); printf("   "%u%u,ti); } it
still gives me 0 when i run it! what am i doing wrong?(besides trying to swim
with cement shoes!:-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7414 S3/Languages
    16-Oct-90  11:48:54
Sb: #7323-c_problem
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: ANDY THIBODEAU 76636,2300

Andy -

Would have seen your message sooner had you included my PPN on it. Also, if
trying to send a listing (or other formatted text) that you don't want CIS's
editor to 'fix' for you, make sure that instead of just [s]aving it, you [s]ave
[u]nformatted.

A number of problems:

1. You are declaring variables after main() but before the 1st curly
   brace. The only thing that should be in here is those parameters
   that are going to be passed to main (like argv, argc, if used). You
   should either have declared them ABOVE main (making them global to
   all functions, or after the curly brace '{', making them locally
   known to the 'main()' procedure only.

2. You are performing an atoi() function on something that's not ASCII
   to begin with (atoi converts ASCII to its INTEGER equivalent).

3. Your printf() statement had no terminating quote, and contained
   an unusual formatting list (i.e. "u%u    ... or something close).

Try something along these lines:

  #include <stdio.h>
  #include <time.h>

  main(argc,argv)        /* args optional here */

  {

  int ti;                /* a place to stuff 'minutes' */
  struct sgtbug timejunk;/* a place to hold the time   */

  getime(&timejunk);     /* tell the system to go get it */

  ti = timejunk.t_minutes; /* go get a copy of the minutes */

  printf("The number of minutes is: %d\n", ti);

  }

NOTE: I'm just scratch typing at work, and haven't compiled this under os9.
Also, you could omit the 'ti' stuff and just:

 printf("The number of minutes is: %d\n", timejunk.t_minutes);

Pete

#: 7329 S4/MIDI and Music
    13-Oct-90  09:45:14
Sb: #UME 4.7
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Mike, I'm having trouble getting UMusE 4.7 to work.  I have put chars.img and
allUm3.img in the SYS directory and have put all the CMDS files (except the
MIDI.dddr) in /h0/CMDS.  When I start UME, I get the opening screen and the
main menu screen.  I can build a score.  When I try to read or save a score or
view a non-UME directory, I get a "Diread: Can't malloc enuf!" message.  I
normally use Multi-Vue, but I also tried it with Multi-Vue disabled.  With the
Multi-Vue approach and UME working (sort of), I used Random/os9 command to
check os9 status.  There were 16 blocks free, but I got the Can't malloc enuf!
message when I tried to view a directory or read a file.  What is different
with my setup?  What is malloc?  A module allocation command?  What should I do
to get 4.7 working?    Ches.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7339 S4/MIDI and Music
    13-Oct-90  14:27:51
Sb: #7329-#UME 4.7
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

malloc() is the C library function that allocates memory.  I bet what's running
out is the routine that reads and sorts the names of the files in the current
directory for display.

I haven't tried running Ultimuse under MV, but I have used it (4.7, the one
sold in Atlanta) with no trouble.  I don't know why you're having trouble. Do
you have any of the UME modules merged?  I don't think they should be in this
version.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7342 S4/MIDI and Music
    13-Oct-90  15:11:06
Sb: #7339-UME 4.7
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Thanks for the reply - I pretty well convinced myself the problem is not
related to MV since I got the same problem working out of the UME disk
directly.  I suspect the problem may be caused by a fully packed shell module
because I have jammed a bunch of things there.  Still seems strange though - no
problem with any other software (including UME 4.5).  No, I haven't merged any
of the UME modules, although the thought did occur.  The availability of almost
200k of memory after UME is operating and encountering a lack of memory is
puzzling.  Note it didn't give an error 207.  I'm inclined to believe it is a
program bug, but it must be an obscure one. Any other ideas?   Ches.

#: 7330 S3/Languages
    13-Oct-90  09:47:12
Sb: RE: c_problem
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To:  76636,2300

Andy,

Try it this way. Look at the differences and if there is anything
you don't understand, then ask more questions. Oh, to store a
forum message unformatted enter a SU at the Post Action Menu Prompt.

#include <stdio.h>
#include <time.h>
main()
{
 struct sgtbuf buffer;
 getime(&buffer);
 printf("Seconds = %d",(int) buffer.t_second);
}

#: 7331 S4/MIDI and Music
    13-Oct-90  09:48:05
Sb: #Lyra Query
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Les, I picked up a CoCo Midi Interface at the Atlanta CoCoFest and it appears
to work fine.  At that Fest, I learned you have a version of Lyra for hard disk
and RBG.  My latest version is 2.60 and I gather the latest for floppy is 2.7?
and for hard disk is 2.8?.  What features are in these versions that are not in
2.60?  Please give me upgrade information.  Back to the Midi Interface, am I
correct that Lyra recognizes when the interface is plugged in and sends the
music through that instead of the bit banger?  It would be nice to compare the
sound first with one interface and then with the other, but either my
synthesizer doesn't like quick disconnect/reconnect or Lyra is keeping only one
output live.   Thanks and best regards.   Ches.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7345 S4/MIDI and Music
    13-Oct-90  15:24:05
Sb: #7331-#Lyra Query
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

Ches, I thought you had migrated to Ultimuse! Version 2.72 of Lyra will do
proper autodecting of what interface is available (2.61 was supposed to but I
didn't get it quite right). If you want to force on interface or the other,
then use the last command on the MIDI menu to toggle what you want. This
version also has a "Page play" command which will play a page of music, stop,
update the display, and continue. There is a very brief pause between pages but
the command is rather useful in finding mistakes and following your music as it
plays. Version 2.82 has RGB Dos capability as well as a few changes (like being
able to back up in dialog boxes).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7350 S4/MIDI and Music
    13-Oct-90  22:13:41
Sb: #7345-#Lyra Query
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

Hey, Les, I didn't migrate, I expanded!  I like UME but I like LYRA too. Many
of my favorite piano rags are in my LYRA library. And UME doesn't yet have
event transmission capability so I can set up the synth for the various
configurations I want that differ for each piece.  I would like to upgrade to
2.82.  I'm using the OWLware BASIC to load LYRA from the hard disk and would
like to load the pieces from the hard disk too. Now, tell me here or eMail
about the upgrade.  Thanks - Ches.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7371 S4/MIDI and Music
    14-Oct-90  23:49:04
Sb: #7350-Lyra Query
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

Ches, you can get the upgrade from me for $10 (2.82, that is). A little more
than usual so I can pay the guy who did the HD coding.

#: 7333 S7/Telecommunications
    13-Oct-90  09:56:47
Sb: Thanks
Fm: Butch Mooney 76702,1126
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)


Hi Kevin,

 You are right Telstar is putting a LF in there. Because that is the way I set
it up. I didn't know enough to turn it off when sending a hard <CR>. I learned
alot of new things today. Just so much to learn. Could not do this without your
help.

Thank you very much,

Butch

#: 7336 S7/Telecommunications
    13-Oct-90  13:18:26
Sb: Conference Uploads ??
Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321
To: All


I am seeking help in learning how to upload a lecture into Conference using one
of several OS9 Terminals that I use.  I have been trying just an ASCii dump of
a file to the conference area, (after formatting each line to 40 charaters),
but CIS responded ..> You are typing too fast... Wait 6 seconds before trying
again <... or something along those lines.

The Terminals that I use are:

STERM 1.2
STERM 1.3
OSTERM 2.08
TELSTAR

Has anyone had this problem before ?

Can anyone make a suggestion on how I may be able to do this ?


Thanks.....



Rodney Harper
Conference Coordinator
FISHNET (Aquarium Fish Forums)
GO FISHNET




#: 7351 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    13-Oct-90  23:56:42
Sb: #Atari Tape backup
Fm: David George 72240,134
To: ALL

To all you Atari OSK users.  Has anyone hooked up a tape drive yet?
I am looking for a tape drive (It now takes about 40 disks to backup my HD),
but I don;'t know what tape drives SBF supports.
I am running Professional OSK Ver2.2 on a Mega 2.
Can I just hook up any SCSI tape drive?
Also has anyone written a driver for the Mega Clock or the ICD host adapter
clock?  The ICD uses SCSI ID#6 for the clock.

David George 
72240,134


There are 2 Replies.

#: 7425 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    16-Oct-90  17:57:11
Sb: #7351-Atari Tape backup
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: David George 72240,134 (X)

YOu may wish to ask Carl Kreider or Dave Kaleita.

Paul

#: 7513 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    18-Oct-90  09:02:28
Sb: #7351-Atari Tape backup
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: David George 72240,134

SBF doesn't care what the tape drive is.  You do need a driver, but I don't
know anyone that has one.  I have a tape running on the 030 but haven't gotten
to the ST yet.  There are Minix drivers for both tape and the clocks around
that might provide an example.

I used an Archive 5945C drive and Adaptec 3530 QIC to SCSI adapter. Several
people use these on their ST's.  The drive is available with SCSI interface
(and is 60 meg).  The 2150S is a 150 meg SCSI drive. These all would hook up to
your ICD adapter.

Carl

#: 7353 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    14-Oct-90  06:13:54
Sb: #Will OS9 Run on a Mac
Fm: C. Paul Bond 72760,2473
To: Paul

Will OS9 run on a Macintosh?   Paul



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7354 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    14-Oct-90  06:58:38
Sb: #7353-Will OS9 Run on a Mac
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: C. Paul Bond 72760,2473

Yes.  Call Ultrascience in Wilmette, Illinois.  (I don't have their phone
number at hand, or I'd include it.)

#: 7356 S4/MIDI and Music
    14-Oct-90  07:59:10
Sb: UME Query 2
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Mike, after further experimentation, I suspect UME 4.7 may be trying to use
memory that is already in use in my system.  When I start os9 lv2 from the
original disk and stay in floppy-land, the high end is at $7DFF and UME 4.7
loads up and works fine.  When I start os9 lv2 with my OWL hard disk, the high
end of memory is at $7BFF and UME 4.7 loads up and starts but gives me the
can't malloc enuf stuff.  Did you make the os9 sin and directly address to
memory??  Ches.

#: 7359 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    14-Oct-90  11:14:00
Sb: #Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: All

I have a CoCo3 with 128K of memory.  Due to memory restrictions when running
the C compiler,  I have been trying to create a os9boot file that eliminates
the overhead of the grfdrv file, (Yes I want 80 characters/line!).  I have
tried to set up a boot file that uses just /t2 as the primary /term and also I
have tried to use ccio and co80 from level 1 version 2 to create a system with
less memory requirements.  None of these approaches seem to work.  Does anyone
have any ideas on why this fails for me? I have tried the following:
 1. Reassembled Init with /t2 as the primary terminal. Didn't work.
 2. Reassembled t2 device descripter renamed as term.  Didn't work.
   The two above methods aborted with a Boot Failed

 3. Replaced cc3io with ccio (level 1, version 2), eliminated grfint, and
    added co80, (Mike D...'s patch for 80 chars/line on level 1 version 2).

Can anyone HELP??



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7382 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  13:06:13
Sb: #7359-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

Bill - if you don't need video at all, you could do the init=/t2 and/or
Term=/t2 as you did, leave out cc3io,vdgint/etc, but be sure to have aciapak...
which is /t2's driver of course.

Is the new Init/T2 modules' CRC correct and verified?  The coco should boot up
to use the terminal (make sure baud rate correct also).  Does /t2 work fine
with your terminal now?

Do you also have Shell on the boot disk CMDS dir?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7395 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  22:14:04
Sb: #7382-Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin, thanks for your response.  BTW, I have really enjoyed the utilities you
have uploaded to both Delphi and Compuserve.  I used to use mverify very
extensively, (primarily with level 1), and dmode has really made life easy on
me when I have changed out disk drives.  I have also made the level 2 patches
you have provided.  Not to mention scfedit, proc, dirm, etc., etc., etc... 
Thank You!!  (and thanks for the utilities you have provided with source code. 
This is how people learn about their operating system and hardware.  To be
honest with you, my interest in the CoCo and OS9 has just begun again after a
long period of disuse).

Since you believe what I tried should work, I think I better go back and try it
again.  Initially, I thought I was very careful.  In answer to your responses
this is what I remember.

I did an ident on the new os9boot file that I created using os9gen.  All CRC
checked out ok.  This is not really surprising since the modified init module,
(when I changed the default terminal to t2), and the device descripter, (when I
changed the name to term), were modified and assembled from the disassembly of
the original code.  I make sure that all the source code from my disassemblies
are correct by running the assembler and checking its cmd file outputs with the
original module.  The os9boot file was made using os9gen with its bootlist file
modified to add/delete the modified or unwanted modules or device descripter. 
I did not try this modification by patching the modules or device descripter in
memory.  Since I was trying to delete the grfint, cc3io, and grfdrv, (which I
presume grfint loads), it wouldn't make much sense, (to me anyway!).

Message continues in the next message......



#: 7396 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  22:15:38
Sb: #7382-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)


Yes, I did have a good copy of shell in the CMDS directory on the boot disk and
it did have the proper attributes set correctly.  Since the startup file has
the line "link shell" as its first command, I also made sure that link was in
the CMDS directory with the proper execution attributes set. I remember when I
first got os9 level 2, (Yes, I too was anxiously awaiting its arrival, but I
guess that might have been obvious from the mention of Mike D..'s fine co80
driver for level 1), and went through the OS9 Boot Failed errors caused by not
having grfdrv in the CMDS directory while using grfint.  It nearly drove me
crazy that first night!!!

As far as t2 is concerned:  Yes, it does work fine, and yes, the baud rate is
set up properly.  No problem using a terminal or terminal emulation on my IBM
clone for communcation, (with null modem cable).  And modem operation is no
problem either.  The serial port is a home brew card hanging from a Disto Super
Controller II, (I hate those Multi-paks!), running your cc3disk.irq driver. 
ACIAPAK was in the boot file and modified using your patch from the the SCII
driver and documentation disk.  The CoCo3 was modified with the IRQ diode hack
described by Marty Goodman in the Nov '89 issue of Rainbow, however, I DID NOT,
make the tie ins as described in the Rainbow text.  A little PC tracing can
make the wire run much shorter and it is easier and cleaner to solder to a PC
trace making the transition to the other side of the board, (the hole and
solder pad is already provided for you <grin>).

This problem will not make any significant difference in the long run since I
really need to upgrade my memory!  But, you know how it is, I want to know why
it didn't work. Any comments on the ccio/co80 combination?  I also need to buy
your book, "Inside OS9 Level 2".  Do you have any preferred distributer?

I will let you know what I come up with.  To be honest, I have quite a few
questions concerning OS9 level 2 but I don't think it is fair of me to ask them
without first reading your book on the subject.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7406 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  00:20:35
Sb: #7396-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

Bill -

First, thanks for the thanks!  And absolutely all questions are welcomed...
there's a lot not in my book's weird reference tables <grin>.  So ask away!

Second, thanks for the detailed background on what you've done/tried.  I in
return must ask the required question:

Did you use "fcs" on the name change in your Init/T2 source code, to set the
high bit on the end of the descriptor name?

Practical suggestion:  make a custom CC3GO which changes the border color of
the coco screen when it is executed, so that you can see if OS9 even gets to
cc3go.  If it doesn't, then see previous paragraph.

I don't think CO80 etc will work at all under L-II... all of us who wrote
things like that simply went out and grabbed some extra memory (which would
have to be coordinated under L-II natch)... under L-I this was possible with
impunity on a 128K coco, but not L-II.  CCIO itself relied on L-I system
variables, which again won't work under L-II.

Yah, you really need the 512K... what a diff it makes!  In any even tho,
booting to a different /term should be quite possible.  Something simple (isn't
it always??) is screwing you up.  We'll laugh when you find it <grin>. Keep us
posted. best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7453 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  23:06:28
Sb: #7406-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev - Ok, I tried to boot up with t2 as the primary terminal again without any
success.  Yes, the primary terminal in Init is defined with the fcs as: term 
fcs  "/t2"

I guess I should have written this down before I asked the question instead of
relying on my memory.  I do not get a OS9 BOOT FAILED message, the initial OS9
BOOT comes up on the Coco3 screen but the disk drive just keeps running and
never boots up and never stops!

Could it have anything to do with defining the immortal shell as "i=/1" in the
CC3Go module?  Init's redefinition of the default/primary terminal should still
work with this statement. Shouldn't it?  If this doesn't give you any Ah-ha,
then I will try to figure out how to add several statments in CC3Go to change
border color on my composite monochrome monitor.  I suppose some absolute
direct writes to the GIME should do this since it's memory space is never
mapped out and always reside above $FF00, Right? I also presume you have tried
doing this with your coco.  Since I think you said that IOMan doesn't use Init
to determine the number of entries in the device table, (you wrote this in your
os9 lvl2 patch file as I recall), Microware/Tandy didn't pull any fast ones by
ignoring the default terminal in Init. Did they?  Also, could it be the dreaded
bootlist problem??



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7459 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  03:47:00
Sb: #7453-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

Bill - yah, I use color cues etc to debug things on boot.  Oh, you can also
write to $0000-001F, which isn't cleared on boots.  Write some info there, then
boot with a good disk and check out what went there (in the system map of
course).

I think it's something REALLY simple that's killing you.  Like, does the Shell
in CMDS have execution permissions?  Is it a good shell?  Are the disk drive
descriptors set up correctly?  Etc.

It's important to not take anything like that for granted.  I've done it quite
often myself <grin + sigh>, and spent days overlooking the most obvious
ommissions from my bootfile, etc.  Also peer at your normal startup file (maybe
you do something there?)

Is there anything special about your serial port which must be set up before
use, that might only happen on a normal bootdisk?   I suppose it could be the
dreaded BLOB, but I haven't seen too many of those lately.  Still, shuffle
around your bootlist and check.

Hmm. I would do this (if you haven't already): create a normal video bootdisk,
and boot. Try /t2. Work okay?  Now take the same disk and use dEd to modify the
os9boot Init module to say /t2 instead of /term.  Write the change, reverify
and reboot.  If it doesn't work I don't know what to say!  Luck - kev

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7476 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  20:44:10
Sb: #7459-Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Ok, Kev. I took part of your suggestion in the last message and got an
interesting result.  I know where you are coming from when you say it must be
something simple, (compared to your knowledge of OS9 you would rightfully
consider me a neophyte). Be that as it may, I generated a new system boot using
os9gen but replaced the init module with the init=/t2 module in the bootfile. 
I know the system did get to cc3go since it did run part of my startup file. 
My startup file has the following: link shell echo A string setime </1 date t
It echoed the " A string" on my /t2 terminal and ran setime but then locked up
after the enter key was depressed.  I know the shell had to be loaded because
the only two commands in my CMDS directory was link and shell. Echo is a merged
into the shell module file, (so is setime and date BTW). So what's so weird you
say?  The copyright notice message DID NOT appear on my CoCo3 screen or on the
/t2 terminal screen. In other words, the code that writes out the copyright
message in CC3Go, (and is executed before the forked shell that runs the
startup file!), didn't think my Coco screen or the /t2 terminal screen was the
standard out path. You still think its something simple?, why don't you try it
on your machine using the operating system code distributed by Tandy!  Thanks
for the suggestions, however, this problem is weird!!!  I'm still looking for
someone who has actually tried to delete cc3io, grfint and w..w7 descriptors
from their boot file and got it to work!



#: 7479 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  21:24:58
Sb: #7459-Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev - I've experimented a little more and I was able to get the system to boot
up by including the "iniz t2" as the first line in my startup file. I will be
trying to eliminate grfint, cc3io, and the window descripters from the boot
file after I leave this message.  Will keep you posted.  When I renamed the t2
device descripter to term during one of my earlier attempts, I know I never did
a iniz on it.  Apparently, the system must some how lock the original term
descriptor in memory, (or add it to the device table)? I don't know enough
about the os9 system yet to know for sure.  Where the copyright message is
written or disappeared to is still a mystery to me.



#: 7485 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  22:11:34
Sb: #7459-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev - Here is another update.  Getting tired of these yet <grin>?  Well, the
mystery of the copyright notice is solved.  I have a copy of CC3Go which I
eliminated the copyright notice from.  You guessed it, that is what I had in my
bootlist file for os9gen, (BTW If you have ever eaten crow, it doesn't taste so
good).  Well I edited the bootlist file which successfully ran the init=/t2
file. I eliminated the cc3io, grfint, and all of the window descripters (w..w7)
from the bootlist file and did another os9gen.  Guess what? It didn't work! 
Same results that I had previously. The OS9 BOOT message came on my coco3
screen and the disk drive just continued to run.  I'm going back and adding the
"w" device descripter and try this thing again.  I haven't gone crazy yet, but
it looks like the system doesn't like the above modules to be deleted.  Think I
will take them selectively out, one at a time, and see where I run into
trouble....



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7509 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  02:45:30
Sb: #7485-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

Bill -

Well, sounds like you're getting closer, all right.  Still using that custom
cc3go, or did you dig out an old one?

When you managed to get it to boot to init=/t2 (with the window modules in the
boot), what did a procs and ddir (if you have that) show for active processes
and devices?   Bound to be a clue there, methinks.

Sorry that I haven't had the chance to try this out here yet... will as soon as
possible (except I think you'll figure something out very soon - fingers
crossed ;-).  Thx for updates.  best - kev

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7534 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  18:49:14
Sb: #7509-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev - I worked on it until late last night.  I have been able to get it to boot
with init=/t2 with all of the window descripters missing, the term descripter
missing and grfint module missing.  Whenever I removed cc3io, it failed to boot
up on /t2?  Why, I am not yet sure.  Maybe it is the BLOB. You must remember
that I bought my machine when they first came out and have not upgraded the
GIME or memory.  I did dumps on all the system modules that I could think of
searching for the ASCII text of cc3io to see if some module was calling for
this module.  The coco3 text screen does get some garbage on it when cc3io is
not present.  I will not give up.  I am going to figure out why!  Does the iniz
t2 command make any sense to you?  That is one of the questions I was going to
ask. I am also running shell ver 1.2. I have not scanned that to see if it is
in someone looking for cc3io.  I was able to gain another 2 8k blocks by
eliminating what I have done so far.  I will keep you posted and I am going to
learn about the operating system one way or another.....  Thanks for the help.

Oh, forgot to tell you about iniz t2. Before I started this crusade to boot up
on /t2 and eliminate all unecessary system modules I could put the iniz t2 into
the startup file and only have 40k left, (as reported by mfree).  If I then did
a deiniz t2 followed by an iniz t2, I could get the memory back up to 48k.  I
have procs and ddir. Procs should what you would expect, (ie t2 is the primary
paths for the immortal shell). ddir, ( in dutil3), doesn't show any extraneous
devices. Just CC3disk with its device descriptors and t2 with its aciapak
driver. The ddir upgraded by (?) does have extraneous info at the end.. Will
snatch copies and let you see.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7555 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  12:14:24
Sb: #7534-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

Reaching WAAAAAYY back, Kent Meyers did what you're doing to his Dragon (CC2
clone) computer. I think what he found was that there were interrupt hooks
pointing into (then) CCio to allow for interrupt based scan for keyboard input
(i.e. key down checking). This was required because the keyboard had no
interrupt ability on its own.

Perhaps things are the same here, and if you could find a way to stub off the
interrupt nesting, you'd be home free..

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7566 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  18:46:52
Sb: #7555-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Thanks Pete.  Guess I will have to disassemble all of the code if I can't
stumble on to the answer.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7596 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  09:51:38
Sb: #7566-Reduced system memory
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

That'd probably help, or maybe just start by using some of the available tools
in DL9/DL10 to peek at the interrupt vectors, and see where they're all headed.

I hate to through any more weight on Kevin, but I know that he's _intimate_
with the code, as is Kent Meyers. Perhaps on or t'other can flesh out this
issue. Steve Wegert was funneling OS9 Forum info to Kent, so perhaps a note to
Steve will get Kent's attention.

Pete

#: 7617 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  22:54:16
Sb: #7566-Reduced system memory
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102

Bill - Pete/Kent/others had a good notion about the cc3io driver being in line
for interrupts, but as far as I can recall offhand, it only inserts a
replacement vector for one which normally points back to a "rts" in the Clock
module (which handles all interrupts on the coco).

Also, without it being iniz'd, it wouldn't do that anyway (cc3io, that is).
Therefore I kinda tend towards your BLOB theory for the moment.  I'm sure Kent
will come up with something tho <grin>>!

#: 7538 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  20:06:01
Sb: #7509-Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Just read my last message.  I hope you can understand it.  I must be tired
since some of the words were not what I wanted to type.  I forgot to respond to
your question on CC3Go.  Yes, I dug out the original version and it did write
the copyright message to the /t2 terminal like it is supposed to do. I will
concentrate on trying to determine what the problem is.  If you find out that
cc3io is needed for some esoteric reason, please pass it along to the forum. 
Seems like I have been jumping to conclusions about the cause for this or that.
The conclusions I have reached so far are:

1) it seems like I need the statement iniz t2 in the startup file 2) it seems
like I need to keep cc3io in the os9boot file. 3) I'm not sure my conclusion
are right, but they are what I have observed.

I will be making the assumption that I have a blob problem and start to
rearrange the order of the modules in the bootlist file in the hopes of
deleting the cc3io module.  I will also be experimenting with adding back the
term descripter, except it will have aciapak as its driver.  Then I will sit
back and THINK about the results I have obtained.  If you get the time, I would
be interested in hearing about the results you obtained with your hardware,
however, I know that you are busy and I am not expecting you to do this for me.
Sometimes it is frustrating to track down problems when you don't know how the
system is supposed to work <grin>...... Thanks for your time.  Regards, Bill



#: 7362 S15/Hot Topics
    14-Oct-90  16:33:41
Sb: #SYSTEM IV System
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: ALL


I want to thank everyone who attended the Atlanta CoCoFest for the response we
received to the new SYSTEM IV Computer System.  We have no doubts as to the
success of our efforts.  For those unable to attend the fest, I've posted our
full announcement in Library 15.

Remember, the SYSTEM IV is available for immediate delivery.

Ed Gresick Delmar Co 302-378-2555

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7426 S15/Hot Topics
    16-Oct-90  17:59:33
Sb: #7362-#SYSTEM IV System
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

Does PT generally put their stuff through FCC approval?

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7464 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  15:52:54
Sb: #7426-#SYSTEM IV System
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Paul,

As far as I know, I've asked for a list of the approved machines.

BTW, as I understand it, your design has been revised since you submitted your
machine for FCC approval.  How is re-submitting the new design for approval
going to affect your deliveries?

Ed

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7483 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Oct-90  21:48:23
Sb: #7464-SYSTEM IV System
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

The design at the FCC is the latest. No changes!

Thanks for asking, though.

Paul

#: 7363 S7/Telecommunications
    14-Oct-90  18:19:26
Sb: #VT-TERM/ANSI GRAPHICS
Fm: John Ranck 73540,246
To: ALL

        Does anyone know of a terminal program preferably that can run under
Wizor Wiz-Pro but must run under OS9 L-II that can inteert ANSI graphics codes
to the format understood by CC3IO window driver.
                Thank You
                Mike Ranck.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7385 S7/Telecommunications
    15-Oct-90  13:10:21
Sb: #7363-VT-TERM/ANSI GRAPHICS
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: John Ranck 73540,246

Mike - there's a coupla ANSI gfx filter programs in Lib 10... I haven't used
them but others have.  Guys??

Look for ANSI*  and see what you find.  ANSIFI.???  maybe?

#: 7364 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    14-Oct-90  19:10:13
Sb: #CoCo on sale
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: All

Looks like some messages I've seen here and there are true.  Today I wandered
by a local Radio Shack, and the CoCo was on sale for $99.95, and CM-8s for
under $200.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7367 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    14-Oct-90  21:38:29
Sb: #7364-CoCo on sale
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Yep, and drive 0 is on the disco'd list since last August altho drive 1 is
still on the active list.   -ph- 

#: 7373 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  00:23:29
Sb: #7364-#CoCo on sale
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hmmm...  Would this be a good inexpensive way to try out OS-9?  How much
hardware/software would I need to add to the $99 machine before I'd have a
usable OS-9 system with a hard disk?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7377 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  06:45:13
Sb: #7373-#CoCo on sale
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Let's see...I'd seriously recommend 512K; those are going for not much $$$
these days.  I think that the Disto hardware is probably the least expensive
way to get the I/O--someone who knows more about Disto hardware than I do will
have to fill in the gaps in my information, I fear.

(BTW, are you David Betz as in Xlisp/Xscheme?)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7378 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  08:20:09
Sb: #7377-#CoCo on sale
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Thanks for your comments.  Would it be reasonable to go the CoCo route or would
I be better off (and cheaper off) trying one of the new systems like the MM/1
or the TOMCAT?

(And, yes, I am the author of XLISP/XScheme/AdvSys/...)

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7386 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  13:15:01
Sb: #7378-#CoCo on sale
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

David - there's also a number of CoCo systems for sale these days... often at
very good prices including everything you need to get going.

There might be some over in COCO forum... also, I think CoCoPRO! buys and sells
used Coco systems.  (guys?  what's their phone/BBS number??) Wait. I think
their BBS # is 313-663-6207.  Some ads there.

I'll also keep an eye out. I've seen some great deals lately but ignored them.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7387 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  13:23:11
Sb: #7386-CoCo on sale
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Thanks.  I'll try the BBS and the COCO forum.

#: 7401 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  23:12:39
Sb: #7386-CoCo on sale
Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Our phone is 313-481-DAVE (3283). Thanks for the referral, Kev!
   Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products

#: 7389 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  19:39:32
Sb: #7378-#CoCo on sale
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Well...I'd give serious thought to an MM/1.  (In this case, particularly
because starting at maybe 1.4, XLisp really doesn't fit too well in a single
64K address space. :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7392 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  21:16:31
Sb: #7389-#CoCo on sale
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Actually, I'd be more likely to try to port XScheme.  It might be possible to
make it fit by removing a bunch of its internal functions.  On the other hand,
the 68K address space would be much nicer.  I've always sort of liked the 6809
though (ever since I bought a 6809 board for my old SWTP-6800). Unfortunately,
I've never had a chance to do much programming on it.  You might be interested
to know that the first LISP interpreter that I wrote was written in 6800
assembly language for the SWTP-6800.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7394 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  22:11:43
Sb: #7392-#CoCo on sale
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

No kidding?  That's neat.  I agree, the 6809's design is quite nice.  (Too bad
folks at BYTE never seemed to notice that...but that's another story.)

I ported XLisp 1.2 to OS-9/6809 (only problem was that Microware's 6809 C
compiler differed from others with respect to the relative binding of type
modifications on typedefs, and 1.2 has a pointer to jmp_buf); firing up XLisp
on the 68020 I have Kermit talking to in another window shows that it claims to
be version 1.6, and I think someone may have ported some version of XScheme to
OS-9/68000.  SIOD (Scheme In One DEFUN) came right up on the 68000, and
compiled right up on the 6809, but barfs immediately when I tried to run it on
my CoCo for reasons I have yet to discover.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7412 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  08:07:38
Sb: #7394-#CoCo on sale
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

I think that SIOD trys to allocate lots of memory when it starts up.  You might
try giving it a command line switch to tell it to use a smaller heap. Sorry,
but I'm not sure what the syntax for the switch is, but I think there is such a
thing.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7432 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  18:28:11
Sb: #7412-CoCo on sale
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

No problem--the hint is enough of a place to start.  Thanks!

#: 7427 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  18:01:38
Sb: #7378-#CoCo on sale
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Well, if you want to go the CoCo route, you can get a 512k upgrade from us at
IMS for darn cheap. If you go MM/1, then we can offer financing and a
screaming, FCC certified machine (in about two weeks).

Either way, you should have some fun!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7454 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  23:19:45
Sb: #7427-CoCo on sale
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Well, of course I'd rather go the MM/1 route (or maybe the TOMCAT).  I'll
decide once I get your literature in the mail.  I didn't know you offered
financing.  That's a nice option, although your prices seem pretty affordable
anyway.

#: 7365 S7/Telecommunications
    14-Oct-90  21:05:22
Sb: #UUCP frustrations
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To: all

FLAME ON.  After spending over an hour transfering UUCP.AR from dl 7, I was
extremly frustrated to find that it was 6809 executable: 100% worthless to me. 
FLAME ON HIGH: If you absolutly MUST distribute binary executeables for one of
the os9 arcitectures, please mark it as such in ALL annoncements of it.  Source
code is much more likely to be usable, fixable, and much less likely to contain
viruses.  (Yes, writing an os9 virus would be quite simple.  If I though it
would get people to distribute source rather than executable, I probably would
write one.)

The self-conflicting copyright notice (apperently based on the gnu public
licence, with modifacations trying to make it so the author can make money on
the code) makes it so I can't even give what I've downloaded away without
having source code, which is not included and apperently only given to those
who ask special for it.  Even if I do get ahold of the sources for the 6809 and
modify them to work on my 68k machine, I can't give, sell, or otherwise
distribute the changes without more special permission.

I'm getting pretty desperate for a uucp I can use on my qt20x and include with
my distribution of C-news and rn.  If I can't get the needed special
dispensation, it looks like I'll have to port one of the freely available uucps
myself.  The main reason I haven't started doing so already is hearing about
this one and not wanting to duplicate effort.

If I sound frustrated, I am.  I did get a good nights sleep before composing
this message in order to calm myself down a bit.

(compuserve sets a new record low for kermit througput: 561 cps on a 2400 baud
modem.  I thought my link to a machine over an overloaded eathernet that likes
to take breaks of several minutes of no data transfered was horid, I regularly
get 1500-2000 cps on it.  I get in excess of 3000 cps on a mnp5 connection to a
fast machine.)

There are 7 Replies.

#: 7368 S7/Telecommunications
    14-Oct-90  21:59:56
Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

The author of what ytyou downloaded is working on an OSK version of UUCP. Does
your qt20x run OSK?



#: 7370 S7/Telecommunications
    14-Oct-90  23:48:17
Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations
Fm: Jim Peasley 72726,1153
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

Ummm... Robert

  The header for UUCP.AR states in no fewer than 3 places that it's for
OS-9/6809.  I don't see what the problem is???

 ...Jim




#: 7374 S7/Telecommunications
    15-Oct-90  04:12:53
Sb: #7365-#UUCP frustrations
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

Lester!

UUCP for OS9/68000 is available in Library 12 - TOP4 and TOP5.  This port was
done by the guys in Munich.  No source, though.

Ed

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7375 S7/Telecommunications
    15-Oct-90  04:13:53
Sb: #7374-UUCP frustrations
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Robert!

Sorry about the salutation - wrong name.  My apologies.

Ed

#: 7384 S7/Telecommunications
    15-Oct-90  13:08:40
Sb: #7365-#UUCP frustrations
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

Even if there were OS-9 viruses circulating, how would a virus get into
UUCP.AR?  The only people who can alter the file are Mark and the Sysops. 
Don't you trust THEM?

Do you think that authors should be able to profit from their hard work?

If you really need QT specific software call FHL.

How did you measure the speed of file transfers from CompuServe?  The figures
you give as "slow" exceed the maximum possible.


William

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7429 S7/Telecommunications
    16-Oct-90  18:05:22
Sb: #7384-#UUCP frustrations
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X)

Hi William! Sorry you could not make it to the Fest. The IMS team was looking
forward to meeting one of our most revered customers!

Mark sends along his howdies.

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7533 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  18:43:53
Sb: #7429-#UUCP frustrations
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Well if the next Fest is not on the third or fourth weekend of the month, I
might be able to make it.  What is your estimated shipping date now?

William

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7583 S7/Telecommunications
    19-Oct-90  23:38:49
Sb: #7533-UUCP frustrations
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: William Phelps 75100,265 (X)

William,

You know, I was so busy this week, that I did not check with the lab in Texas!
Concerning the FCC testing, that is -weeks, but not much longer, my friend. Boy, it's gonna feel good to see those
circuit boards rolling off the line.

The manufacturer has his production design boards in hand and is programming
his pick-and-place machines.

Take care.

Paul

#: 7428 S7/Telecommunications
    16-Oct-90  18:03:41
Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

UUCP for the MM/1 is working now under OSK.

Paul

#: 7431 S7/Telecommunications
    16-Oct-90  18:22:02
Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)


Robert:

I STRONGLY suggest that you download STERM from the OSK database here.  It uses
the Compuserve B protocol for downloading.  I believe that the B protocol is a
streaming type protocol that does not require an ACK after every block
transmitted, this greatly increases throughput.  When I download files from CIS
this way, the RD light on my modem stays on solid until the file is completely
downloaded.

-J

#: 7598 S7/Telecommunications
    20-Oct-90  10:01:15
Sb: #7365-UUCP frustrations
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

Robert,

I'm sorry you found the UUCP port not to your liking.  I believe I did mention
a couple times that this was the OS9/6809 port.

As for the lack of source code....I thought about this a lot and decided that
the need to keep some control over the source and the port outweighed the
desire to upload them.  I think this is resonable given the year I spent doing
the port and the time and money spent testing, talking to beta testers, etc. As
I mentioned in the docs, anyone wanting the source code just needs to drop me a
line and include $5 for the cost of the disk and postage.  If that still
doesn't seem resonable to you, then I can send it to you with no charge if you
will send me a letter with your address.

I also question your mentioning viruses.  Since I nor anyone I know has seen or
heard of an OS9 virus, I think it kinda unresonable for you to suggest that I
might put one in the upload.  If I were that smart, I'd have figured out a way
to do it in less than a 250K file (grin).

In any case, I do not expect this port to pass the detailed scrutiney (sp?) of
a UseNet guru or any other experienced net hacker.  It is as simple an
implementation as I thought possible while still giving as much functionality
as possible.  It does work and hopefully will bring OS9 users that much closer
to the real world.

If you have any more questions, please feel free to call me since I am no
longer available on CIS (at least for the next few months).

Mark

#: 7366 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    14-Oct-90  21:09:30
Sb: Hard Drive Wanted
Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321
To: All


Wanted:  (In a really big way <Grin>)


Hard Drive and controller for COCO 3.

10-20 meg, name your price.


>>Rod<<

Leave me mail, call, or write.....


Rodney Harper
202 N. Seaman Avenue
Bayou La Batre, Alabama 36509
(205) 824-2495  after 5pm CST




#: 7388 S1/General Interest
    15-Oct-90  19:31:00
Sb: One Meg Problems
Fm: DENNIS SKALA 73177,2365
To:  73467,403 (X)

Paul, Sorry about the problems you're having with the one Meg.  But I can help
with one part - the ramdisk is my stuff.  Originally sold by (holding nose
here, hand on wallet) Spectrum Projects, currently by Microcom.  As it happens
I just finished an upgrad to handle the one Meg.  Check your mailbox later on
in the week.

                                ***** Dennis *****

#: 7393 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    15-Oct-90  22:10:16
Sb: #TERMINAL PROGRAM HELP
Fm: BRUCE BAKER 73747,3137
To: SYSOP (X)

I am an extremely new OS-9 user. I have no terminal program that I can get to
work under OS-9. My access to compuserve is under RS-Dos with Mikeyterm as a
terminal program. I don't have a true RS232 port. My modem and Mikeyterm work
through the bitbanger serial I/O. I found a program in the COCO forum that lets
me read RS-DOS files under OS-9. I have downloaded several files from both the
COCO forum and this forum, but althoug
 I can read the files, I can't get the modules to load and run under OS-9. I
suspect that Mikeyterm inserts line feeds at the end of each line. Could that
be part of my problem? My other question is, is there a device
driver/descriptor (T1?) that will work with level 1 if I can get a terminal
program up and running? Also, what would be the best terminal program in this
database to use with level 1? Any and all help will be greatly appreciated!
                                    Bruce




There is 1 Reply.

#: 7407 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  00:20:59
Sb: #7393-TERMINAL PROGRAM HELP
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: BRUCE BAKER 73747,3137

Hi Bruce - new users always welcome!

I think you'll find /t1 drivers to be rather unpleasant under OS-9.  There may
still be a partial solution around... I'll look... which was called a
"FIRQ-driven" modification.  Requires one wire jumpered on your bitbanger
connector.  But otherwise a real serial port is almost a must.

Regarding the files you downloaded... tell us what they were.  If you could
actually read them (as in "list" them), then they were likely to be source code
and can't be executed without first assembling them into 6809 binary.

If they were binary files (unreadable junk), then they may have also been AR'd
(archived - if the filename here ended in .ar, then they were).  We'll get to
that if/when need be.

If they were binary files but simply OS9 commands ready to run, then you need
to do two things:

 1. Copy the file from the RSDOS/"OS9" disk to a real OS9 disk.
 2. Set the execution permissions on the file:
      attr filename e pe w

That way, OS9 will allow you to load (and delete) the file.  Substitute the
pathname of the file for "filename" above, of course.  Like: "attr /d1/dmode e
pe w", for example.  Don't worry, you'll find all this quite natural sooner
than you think.  Just tell us the filenames for now. best - kev

#: 7397 S7/Telecommunications
    15-Oct-90  22:43:30
Sb: #UUCP in DL7
Fm: Steve Sampson N5OWK 75136,626
To:  76070,41

I'm curious what you used for the basic port, and if the DL7 upload contains
source also?  As on old uucp tinkerer who never gets time for it anymore :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7599 S7/Telecommunications
    20-Oct-90  10:01:22
Sb: #7397-#UUCP in DL7
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Steve Sampson N5OWK 75136,626 (X)

Steve,

I used your Flex port as a starting point and changed much and added much. I
must say, I would never have been able to do it if you had not posted your
version of DCP by Richard Lamb.  I found his coding style (or lack thereof) to
be very hard to follow, while your code was simple, elegant, and much easier to
trace through.  Thanks.

I would be happy to send you the sources if you'll just drop me a note. My
address is:

    Mark Griffith
    953 W. Wisconsin Ave.
    DeLand  FL  32720

        or

    Mark Griffith
    Stetson University
    Campus Box 8347
    DeLand  FL  32720

I can do 720K or 360K CoCo disks, MM/1 or Atari ST OSK 3.5 disks.

Mark

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7602 S7/Telecommunications
    20-Oct-90  11:38:01
Sb: #7599-UUCP in DL7
Fm: Steve Sampson 75136,626
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Well I'm glad someone found an use for it.  I never did get my send-expect
dialer code right.  I had it half-ass on my flex-box, but it only worked long
distance (timing) and not local.  You probably fixed a ton of bent code to get
where you are :-)

#: 7402 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    15-Oct-90  23:26:47
Sb: #Help with PT68-K4 OS9
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: All

I've been having a little trouble getting set up with OS9 on the PT68-K4. I'm
hoping one of you old hands can help me figure out what's going on.

Actually, I got started with OS9 by accident.  When I upgraded from the -K2 to
a -K4, Peripheral Tech was under the impression that I already had OS9, so they
sent me a set of OS9 disks as an upgrade. Being the honest person that I am
(and also ready to try OS9), rather than sending the disks back I called and
asked that they charge me the price for OS9, and send the manuals.  The manuals
came with a second, more official-looking set of disks.

When I tried to boot, I discovered that the first set of disks (the upgrade
set) booted just fine, but the "legal" set has serious problems. It wouldn't
boot at all.  No problem, says I, I'll use the first set.

Everything seemed to go fine at first.  The system came up, all the dir, chd,
chs, and the obvious stuff worked.  Natch, the first step seemed to be to back
up the distribution disks.  I found that format worked fine, but backup
doesn't:  I get error 000:232, which indicates a bad CRC.

Ironically, I did a cmp of the copy of backup on the first and second sets. The
OS9Boot program on the two disks showed beaucoup differences (which I suppose
explains why one will boot and the other won't!), but cmp says that the two
backups are identical.

I called PT, and they sent a replacement set of disks, which arrived today. Got
the same problem as the first set.  It boots, but backup shows a bad CRC.

[More]

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7403 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    15-Oct-90  23:26:54
Sb: #7402-#Help with PT68-K4 OS9
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

[Continued]

Tonight I called Microware to see what's going on.  He showed me how to use
"ident" to look at the info on the file.  Sure enough, it shows a bad CRC on
backup.  He also told me that I could back the disks up the hard way, using
dsave, so I am not dead in the water, and can go ahead with installation.

In the meantime, though, I guess I'd like to know:

(a) What's the easiest way to get a copy of backup that works.  He suggested
having PT send me a copy on a separate disk, but it appears that PT's Master
copy is bad.  Can I get one from Microware.

(b) I saw something in the manual that implied there's a program to recalculate
the CRC, I guess for patches.  Is this a safe thing to do?

(c) Wonder how come the two copies of OS9Boot are different????

Anybody got any thoughts/advice/similar experiences to help me?

Thanks.

Jack



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7409 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    16-Oct-90  01:09:55
Sb: #7403-Help with PT68-K4 OS9
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

Hi Jack (btw, where do you live? might be some help nearby) -

The OS9boots are probably different because they added something to one or the
other.  Do an "ident -q /d0/os9boot"  and see what modules are in each disk's
os9boot file.

Yah, "fixmod -u filename" will update a CRC if you changed the module. However,
if you yourself didn't change it on purpose <grin>, using fixmod is a bad
idea... the CRC being bad indicates that surely something in the module is
hosed, and fixmod can't fix that.  The CRC is there just to prevent loading
such a bad module.

Backup - did you get Basic?  You could use it or C or asm to write a quick and
dirty backup util.  The first 3 bytes on any OS9 disk give the number of
sectors on that disk.  So a simple backup program in Basic would be:

 PROCEDURE backup
 DIM count(3),sector(256):BYTE
 DIM path1,path2,total,x:INTEGER
 INPUT "from drive name ",source$
 INPUT "to   drive name ",dest$
 OPEN #path1,source$+"@":READ
 OPEN #path2,dest$+"@":WRITE
 GET #path1,count
 total=count(1)*65536.+count(2)*256+count(3)
 SEEK #path1,0
 FOR x=1 TO total
  GET #path1,sector
  PUT #path2,sector
 NEXT x
 END

All that does it to open each disk in raw (full disk) mode (the "@" does that
special - like "/d0@")... then go through and copy each sector.  Lots of ways
to speed this up of course, like doing more bytes at a time.  You can also get
fancy and get the drive names from the parameter line, etc.

Did PT know how much RAM you had, btw?  The Init module needs to know that.
Does "mfree -e" jibe with your system? best  - kev

#: 7410 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  05:01:11
Sb: #TC09 "virtual machine"
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Hiya!  It was nice to actually see you in person at CoCoFest.  I have to ask,
though, about the new "virtual machine" stuff that is intended to let the TC09
run non-OS-9 CoCo software.  I was happy to hear that OS-9 device drivers
wouldn't have to go through that rigamarole, but trying to infer what a CoCo
*would have* read from a particular memory-mapped I/O address sounds like it
would take some time to puzzle out, and it's kind of a bummer to me to see the
TC09 delayed (will it be made more expensive by the added code or hardware
needed to do this?) by something I will never use.  Any chance you could upload
an updated description of the TC09?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7452 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    16-Oct-90  22:38:33
Sb: #7410-#TC09 "virtual machine"
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

The virtual machine part of the TC9 in its simplest form actually saves us
money because we can now boot stock OS9 and then modify it after. Without this
capability we would have had to somehow provided a way for you to get up and
running OS9. This would be no problem for those with a CoCo3 that they could
use but what about those without. Anyway the virtual machine hardware was
swapped in essence for the 25% speedup. The cost to the user is carried by FHL.
The other advantage is that the virtual machine can be used to test hardware
that doesn't exist yet. ie: you could use the VM to test possible hardware etc.
I'm getting lost trying to explane this online so I will refrain from doing so
for now. I plan to upload a series of tech notes on this and other developments
as soon as both machines (TC9 and TC70) are fully up and running. I think that
there has been too much said about hardware that does not exist in production
form and that that may confuse the readers. So... when, in a week or so, we
have both machines fully up and in production I will upload lots of detailed
info and all specs.

(PS Just reread your note and I forgot to answer these questions. No it will
not delay the TC9. The VM is disabled on reset and would not interfere with any
software. (Stock Apps. would use it until/if modified for the TC9 hardware)

Hope that holds you for now, please be patient for the rest of the info.

BTW it was nice to see you and all the other guys that I have only talked to on
the phone before. It was also nice to renew old friendships. I think that is
the thing I like most about these shows, we should do them for that if for no
other reason.

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7458 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  03:25:43
Sb: #7452-TC09 "virtual machine"
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Thanks for the info.  I guess the only thing that I wonder about is your
mentioning the swap for the speedup--but I will hold off pending your upload;
goodness knows you are pretty busy these days.

Big 10-4 about meeting new and old faces.

#: 7413 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  09:04:34
Sb: #OS/9000
Fm: James O. Jones 76166,3110
To: sysop (X)

l Hi, I've a question on OS/9000...where can more info and first hand
description of how this 386 OS functions?

Is there a "sub-forum" on the 9000 vers

Appreciate any info

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7416 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  12:01:48
Sb: #7413-OS/9000
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: James O. Jones 76166,3110 (X)

James -

Microware has their own forum here on CIS. You might like to have a gander over
there. Try GO MSC.

Pete

#: 7433 S1/General Interest
    16-Oct-90  18:30:15
Sb: #7413-#OS/9000
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: James O. Jones 76166,3110 (X)

I expect you'll get some first-hand answers; you should also give Microware a
call and ask for a copy of *The OS-9000 Catalog*, which is free and gives a
pretty good overview of the operating system.  (GO MSC may have a menu that
lets you request a copy, too; I haven't looked for that yet, so I don't know.)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7463 S1/General Interest
    17-Oct-90  08:53:50
Sb: #7433-OS/9000
Fm: James O. Jones 76166,3110
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Thanks for replies, Pete and ??...I will sign on the Microware forun...JJ

#: 7415 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    16-Oct-90  11:50:19
Sb: #OSK BACKUP
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

Hi Jack!

If you haven't checked your mail, please do so.  I uploaded 'backup' for you
per Fred.  He did have a bad copy on his distribution disk.  Any more problems,
let me know.

Ed

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7442 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    16-Oct-90  20:22:43
Sb: #7415-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Thanks, Ed.  I did get the file.  Unfortunately, it was downloaded
(automatically) by TAPCIS, so is now residing happily on my PC!  All I have to
do now is to figure out how to get it from PC to OS9.  Even more unfortunately,
my PC and the PT68 have incompatible disk formats (40-track vs 80), so I can't
just copy the file, even if I could read/write DOS disks.

I'll try to figure out something.

In the meantime, I've been checking the other files and found one more bad one:
dcheck.  The test hasn't been exhaustive, tho.  Let me suggest that I go
through all the disks, and make sure there are no more bad ones.  Once that's
been decided, I can try to copy the files from PC to PT68.  Even simpler, it
might be best if you would be willing to put them on a disk, if I send you a
disk with mailer.  Would that be too much trouble?

Thanks very much for your help.

Jack



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7460 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  04:21:05
Sb: #7442-OSK BACKUP
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

Jack! No problem  ed

#: 7473 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  18:49:08
Sb: #7415-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed, I checked all my files from Fred.  There are only the two, backup and
dcheck, that are bad.  If there's some way you could help me get copies, I'd
appreciate it.

The problem with TAPCIS is that when it sees a message "You have mail," it
automatically goes over, gets the mail, and the deletes the message.  So I now
have backup firmly emplanted on my PC, with no simple way to get it onto an OS9
disk.  I can pipe it over via RS-232, except that I haven't installed the
cables from Fred yet (of course, that shouldn't take more than 30 minutes or
so).  Not sure exactly what to do after that.  Is there a modem program that
comes with OS9, or can you just pipe a file from the serial port?

Simplest thing, still, if you have an 80-track drive, may be just to put the
darned things on disk.  I'll reimburse you for the disk, natch.

Thanks very much for your help.

As long as I have your attention, I plan to install OS9 on my HD along with
SK*DOS and Minix, and perhaps partitions for CP/M-68K and K-OS, as well. Any
suggestions as to how best to organize this?  I talked to Fred, but he doesn't
know of anyone who's tried more than the two OS's (SK*DOS and OS9).

Best, Jack



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7492 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  22:30:46
Sb: #7473-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

Jack,

You should be able to disable any forum in TAPCIS (including mail which is a
special kind of forum.) Then you can log on directly or from OS9 and download
the file.

Check out STERM for a really good, simple (the S in Sterm stands for simple)
terminal program with the best file trasfer protocol on CompuServe, B-protocol.
There should be an OSK version in LIB 12.

Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7535 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    18-Oct-90  19:15:23
Sb: #7492-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

Yeah, I know, Bill.  It's just that I didn't know that Ed's binary file was
coming until it came.  So by the time I knew about it, TAPCIS had downloaded
the binary into my PC, and then deleted the file from CIS.

Actually, even if it hadn't, it wouldn't do me much good without a modem
program like the STERM program you mention.  I think the best deal is to see if
I can talk Ed into sending me a hard (as in vinyl) copy.

Thanks for the lead on STERM, tho.  I'll definitely be needing something like
that soon.

Jack



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7590 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    20-Oct-90  05:44:37
Sb: #7535-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

Hi Jack!

Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier.

I didn't have your address, so when I was talking to Carol (at PT), I told her
of your problem - she said they will send you replacements - you should receive
them shortly.

It turned out that the disk they were using to copy from was damaged. They went
back to the master and made new copies.

Any more problems, just yell.

Ed

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7623 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Oct-90  05:25:04
Sb: #7590-OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312

Thanks very much, Ed.  I'll be looking for the (fourth!) disk from PT.  I've
talked to Carol many times, and she's always very helpful.  I think they don't
quite know what to make of me.  It seems that if Murphy's law ever shows its
ugly head, it's always with _MY_ orders.  Anyhow, thanks again for your help.

I see by reading some of the msgs between Paul, Frank, Kevin, and you re the
Fest that you seem to have become the de facto PT spokesman, or chairman of the
PT User's group, or something.  Is that reasonably accurate?  If so, have you
ever considered making it official?

We have an SK*DOS User's Group, and Peter Stark's BBS.  But Peter's BBS is,
naturally, devoted mainly to SK*DOS, although he has very kindly allowed us a
section to talk about Minix and other OS's in general.  As for the User's
Group, the president, Sidney Thompson, seems to have disappeared into that
black hole called Minix, and may never be seen again.  (I'm semi-kidding
.. I understand that Sidney's on reserve duty at the moment, which I reckon is
a pretty fair excuse, but prior to that his involvement with SK*DOS had tapered
off once Minix showed up.)

Anyhow, a PT User's Group would be a nice thing to have around.  Do you know
Ron Anderson?  He and I, and a few other PT users, get together by mail once in
awhile.  Other than that, and Peter's occassional newsletter, it's tough to get
much info as to what the other guys are doing.

Jack



#: 7419 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon
    16-Oct-90  16:17:15
Sb: New CoCo3 BBS!
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ALL


Announcing the newest CoCo3 BBS, The BBS by the Sea! Hosted by myself, Zack
Sessions, ColorSystems.

Access time is currently limited to:

8AM until 5PM and               \___Sunday thru Thursday 5PM until 11PM
(limited access) / 24 hr Friday and Saturday (full 24 hr/7 day support in the
not to distant future)

2400/1200/300 8N1

(919) 675-1847

(using "The Astral Plane" BBS Software for OS9 Level 2 by Mike Guzzi)

#: 7435 S7/Telecommunications
    16-Oct-90  18:59:27
Sb: #UUCP
Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41

Although I have not yet been able to use UUCP, for reasons following, I am very
impressed with your Docs. They are such a pleasure to read. Are you a language
buff? I have searched all over and have been unable to locate Cron or Go, can
you advise where they are? Do you have a net directory showing a node for area
705, specifically Orillia, Ontario, Canada?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7447 S7/Telecommunications
    16-Oct-90  21:41:25
Sb: #7435-UUCP
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106

Mark is, for a while, not going to be on CIS--I fear that your message to him
will have scrolled off by the time he returns.  Give DL9 a shot in search of
cron and go.

Probably the simplest way to find out what systems one might connect to is by
inquiring at local universities or companies that are likely to use Unix. Past
that, I don't know of anyone in particular in that area.

#: 7436 S9/Utilities
    16-Oct-90  19:02:42
Sb: #Rssave
Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106
To: Zack C. Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

I appreciate what you have done with rssave.ar, but why can't the device names
be passed as parameters. Also why assume that RSDOS is located in

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7451 S9/Utilities
    16-Oct-90  22:15:20
Sb: #7436-Rssave
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106

Some of your message got cut off. I figured only one device would ever be
specified, that being the device which has the RSDOS disk in it. I mention in
the docs that this characterstring constant was located in only one place and
how to patch it for something other than /d0. Was that not enough?

Zack

#: 7437 S9/Utilities
    16-Oct-90  19:08:23
Sb: #Cron
Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41

I have found cron only.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7445 S9/Utilities
    16-Oct-90  20:55:31
Sb: #7437-Cron
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106

Kevin -

GO was in the UGLIB database (DL5). If not there presently, ask Mike Ward
(76703,2013) to pull it from the archives for you.

Another tool you may like is 'dispatch.ar' in DL9. Enjoy...

Pete

#: 7439 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    16-Oct-90  20:05:52
Sb: #Disk ID change
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: all


I have a bunch of binary floppy disk images out on my hard disk.  I can use
FHL's "fu" program to write one of these disk images out to a floppy disk -
this works just fine.

I then changed my ramdisk to be the same size as the floppy disk.  I then used
"fu" to copy the floppy image out to the ramdisk.  When I attempt a dir or chd
to the ramdisk I get this nifty message:  "Error #000:251  (E$DIDC) Disk ID
change.  RBF copies the disk ID number (from sector zero) into the path
descriptor of each path when it is opened.  If this does not agree with the
driver's current disk ID, this error is returned.  The driver updates the
current disk ID only when sector zero is read; it is therefore possible to swap
disks without RBF noticing.  This check helps to prevent that possibility."

This is ok, but I just wrote a new image to the ramdisk on purpose!  How do I
get RBF to temporarily ignore this "disk ID change?"



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7456 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  02:00:49
Sb: #7439-#Disk ID change
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Jay - that IS strange... as a new chd/chx should open its own temp path and
take the new ID number in stride.  Do you give a full pathname (/r0?).
 kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7461 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  06:01:30
Sb: #7456-#Disk ID change
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Yes.  "dir /r0" and "chd /r0" both failed.  I can "fu" the disk image to the
ramdisk in about two seconds versus the gizillion seconds it takes to fu the
image to floppy although I think I can reduce the floppy time by messing with
the interleave a bit but it won't get anywhere close to the two seconds!

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7474 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  19:55:13
Sb: #7461-Disk ID change
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Hmm.  I wonder if that ramdisk always makes up a hardcoded disk id or something
along those lines?  It must, or you'd be okay.

Well, the only thing I can think of to do is this: read and save the original
ramdisk ID, then do the fu, then rewrite the disk ID in LSN 0 (if you can). 
The ID is at offset $0E-0F in LSN 0.

May not work even tho opening a disk raw (@) bypasses some checks, but it's
worth a shot! <grin>

#: 7484 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  22:01:50
Sb: #7461-#Disk ID change
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)


Kevin,

I just happened to have a couple of BASIC programs that save and restore LSN0. 
Disk ID of the virgin ramdisk was zero, disk ID of the "new" ramdisk image
wasn't.

I wrote a very short procedure file that calls "dmp" (from the UG disks or
here, I forget where I got it) to set the ramdisk's ID back to zero.  Works
like a champ and takes a mere four seconds or so!

Thanks for the help, I was just curious why the ramdisk returned the error and
the floppy didn't!

-J

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7489 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  22:25:15
Sb: #7484-#Disk ID change
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Jay - excellent!  I was checking my flowcharts of RBF (not very clear or new
ones, either) and couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work.  But doesn't the
ramdisk "self-format" itself?  That was the clue, I think... and perhaps its
driver also hardcodes that ID number.  Time to take it apart and change it...
(any volunteers? :-).  Just a guess, tho.

Glad it works! best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7522 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    18-Oct-90  13:58:18
Sb: #7489-Disk ID change
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I believe that it does "self format" as you don't have to do anything to it
other than load and link the descriptor to be able to use it.

#: 7449 S7/Telecommunications
    16-Oct-90  22:10:02
Sb: uucp info
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: all

Greeting-
     Everyone who gets the uucp package needs to get the login package that
Mark uploaded as well.  This is needed for uusteup to work correctly. It gives
encrypted passwords and the abaility for users to change thier own passwords.

I think mark put it in the bbs dl section.  If it is not there let me know and
I will upload it myself.

-Brett

/ex




#: 7455 S6/Applications
    17-Oct-90  01:03:41
Sb: #SmartWatch
Fm: DAVID HENSLEY 73030,3717
To: ALL

Does anyone know how to access the Tandy SmartWatch from RSDOS? I have the
drivers for OS9, but cant understand them when dissassembled. If
                                                     Dave ZHensley      Hensley



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7457 S6/Applications
    17-Oct-90  02:06:54
Sb: #7455-SmartWatch
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: DAVID HENSLEY 73030,3717

Dave - hmm.  I'd look for any section that appears to be swapping in the Basic
ROMs (?) to enable access to the SmartWatch.  I'm afraid I'm not much help
here.  Perhaps someone else can point you to some commented source code. Luck!

#: 7462 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  08:36:21
Sb: #FD501 controller
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

Will the Tandy 501 disk controller work with OS-9 Level II?  For that matter,
what is the difference between the 501 and the 502?  It seems that I've got a
501 controller laying around that I could use with a CoCo3 and I'm wondering if
that would make a decent controller for OS-9. Also, what kind of disk drives
would I need to buy for it?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7475 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  20:44:04
Sb: #7462-#FD501 controller
Fm: Randy Wilson 71561,756
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)


    David,

    The FD-501 should work fine with the CoCo3 and OS9/L2. It can use any
standard drive except the hi-cap 1.2 and 1.44s. 40 track, 80 track, single or
double sided, 5.25 or 3.5; it doesn't care. Just hammer together an
approperiate(sp?) cable and use the proper descriptors. The only thing to watch
is that the original OS9 disks are 5.25 48tpi (formatted to 35 track, single
sided), so a 360K 5.25 drive might be the best bet. BTW, the controller can
handle up to three double sided drives of any mix.

    The major difference between the FD-501 and the FD-502 is in the drive. The
501 had a 40 track single sided, and the 502 has a double sided drive.

Randy

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7488 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  22:23:09
Sb: #7475-#FD501 controller
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Randy Wilson 71561,756 (X)

Thanks!  I might even have an old 360K drive kicking around somewhere. Sounds
like playing with OS-9 might not cost more that a few hundred dollars.  Are
there any PD languages available like C or an assembler? I assume that the
standard OS-9 kit from RS doesn't include either.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7490 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  22:25:43
Sb: #7488-#FD501 controller
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

CoCo OS-9/6809 Level Two doesn't include C or assembler, though it does include
BASIC09.  CoCo OS-9/6809 Level One does include an assembler, but not BASIC09.
For that matter, Steve Childress's macro assembler for OS-9/6809 is, I think,
in one of the DLs.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7493 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  22:32:52
Sb: #7490-FD501 controller
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

A macro assembler would be fine.  This is beginning to look like a real
possiblity.  Of course, I'd rather have one of the new TOMCAT boards, but the
CoCo might be an interesting way to get started.  Thanks for your help.

#: 7468 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  16:25:27
Sb: #Hard Disk Defrag
Fm: J SILLIMAN 72355,1207
To: all

   Hey all, got a small problem with my 20meg hd.  I am running a bbs on the
system and I seem to be running into a bit of a fragmentation problem.  I have
tried the File System Repack, and found it to corrupt files and takes WAY too
long for my likeing.  Is there any other programs out in the PD or commertial
areas that will repack the drive faster, and more reliably?  Hope to hear from
someone!!!


There is 1 Reply.

#: 7470 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  18:41:28
Sb: #7468-Hard Disk Defrag
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: J SILLIMAN 72355,1207

J -

Best bet is simple, but laborious:

1. backup the disk (use HDKIT, or equivalent)

2. format the drive again (logical is okay, but why not take the opportunity
   to freshly write track and sector headers).

3. restore the drive (again, HDKIT or equivalent).

Pete

#: 7469 S7/Telecommunications
    17-Oct-90  18:19:49
Sb: #UUCP
Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545
To: ALL

Could someone explain what uucp.ar is????

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7471 S7/Telecommunications
    17-Oct-90  18:44:19
Sb: #7469-#UUCP
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 (X)

Phil -

A gross simplification is that it is a Unix-like intersystem communication
tool. It is complex, a bit weird to setup, requires a hard disk, a dedicated
modem line, and a lot of patience. OS9/Unix wizardry is also a plus.

Basically, it mails (and receives from) other systems via the modem. It is the
backbone of a multi-site (thousands) multi-system network called USENET, among
other things.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7536 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  19:43:02
Sb: #7471-#UUCP
Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Hi Pete-- Is it like a BBs and can you use it instead of a terminal program?
What's a dedicated modem?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7541 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  21:59:14
Sb: #7536-#UUCP
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 (X)

By "dedicated" in this context is meant that the modem is not used for anything
else.  UUCP isn't like a BBS--the computers involved call one another up and
trade information without direct human control or supervision.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7605 S7/Telecommunications
    20-Oct-90  13:22:44
Sb: #7541-UUCP
Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Thanks James--Then it's nothing special!

#: 7554 S7/Telecommunications
    19-Oct-90  11:39:36
Sb: #7536-#UUCP
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545 (X)

Nope - couldn't be farther from a BBS. A dedicated modem is one that people
aren't trying to use as a phone line as well. I.e., a second phone line in your
house. Optimally, UUCP runs best with separate dial-in and dial-out lines,
although skullduggery (sp?) can be used to 'flip' the line's roles.

I believe Bob Larson uploaded some definition files describing some of the UUCP
(and other) concepts... why not have a gander there first...

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7606 S7/Telecommunications
    20-Oct-90  13:24:18
Sb: #7554-UUCP
Fm: PHIL SCHERER 71211,2545
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Thanks for the info Pete--it sounds like an interesting project!!

#: 7472 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  18:46:00
Sb: #Visit
Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662
To: Paul K. Ward

Paul,

(or maybe Kevin Darling)

I'll be in Raleigh this weekend visiting a friend. Would
it be possible for me to drop by and see an MM1 in person
on Saturday?

Hugo Bueno

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7497 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    17-Oct-90  22:47:09
Sb: #7472-#Visit
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X)

Hugo,

Sure!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7532 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    18-Oct-90  18:21:39
Sb: #7497-#Visit
Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

OK, how do we go about this? Just show up? I'd need an address (and time if
necessary).

Thanks, I much appreciate the opportunity!

Hugo



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7564 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    19-Oct-90  18:07:05
Sb: #7532-Visit
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X)

Leave Kev a note! After 1:00 pm  would be best!

Paul

#: 7480 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    17-Oct-90  21:45:15
Sb: #1 Meg Upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,
  Well, I jumped from partial success with DM3 right over to MV,  rechecked
everything and got the same results- lockup or OS9 boot failed after the
Microware logo.  Then I remembered your suggestion as to why DM3 was locking up
(btw. that's R22).  I removed the jumper and replaced it with a 150ohm resistor
(in parallel with r22 gives about 66ohms).  voila.  MV is running! but with one
problem... I found out what changing MEM=  to 1024:  you can <CLEAR> key to the
first OS9 shell you make but you can't go anywhere else; yer stuck.
  So back to MEM=512 and all seems to be well.  I'll bet DM3 doesn't lock up
any more either when I can get back to it.
  Btw. had to add RS's 12dc fan to keep the new chips from freaking out from
overheating. Located it against the rf modulator with some foam tape and
modelers' support struts.  Seems to be doing the job altho it hasn't had a
really good work out yet.
  Thanks to all on the forum for enough support to keep me going.   Looks like
the main problem was not putting both new patches into the software
straightaway instead of experimenting around.  Well, I did learn from it and
that's what it's all about.   -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7508 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  02:40:03
Sb: #7480-1 Meg Upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Good news so far!  Kudos for not giving up <grin>.  Hope you're rolling along
fine now. best - kev

#: 7498 S3/Languages
    17-Oct-90  23:12:16
Sb: #strftime()
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: all

Does anyone know what the correct format for digit conversion in the function
strftime() is? I've just ported a version of this to MW-6809, but I'm not
completely happy with it. The version I snarfed has all the different values
being displayed as 2 digits (eg. 01, 09, 31, etc.). I'm not sure that the
leading '0' should appear on most of the options. My reference does not specify
the number of digits to display (just that day of week is 0 to 6 and day of
month is 1 to 31, etc.). Anyone got a better text than mine?

Once I get this working properly I'll post it....

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7519 S3/Languages
    18-Oct-90  12:11:11
Sb: #7498-#strftime()
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob -

I don't recognize that function.... Where did it come from?

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7574 S3/Languages
    19-Oct-90  21:23:57
Sb: #7519-#strftime()
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Pete, strftime() is an ANSI C function which converts time to a formatted
stirng. Lots of options, similar to printf(), let you set the format just as
you need. I got the docs from "C: The Complete Reference", Schil and "stole"
the source from the Mix C complier for the IBM. Schildt's book does not talk
about precision, the Mix C stuff left pads all the numbers with 0's. Does this
help?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7597 S3/Languages
    20-Oct-90  09:53:00
Sb: #7574-strftime()
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203

Bob -

That explains my ignorance... I'm largely ANSI C ignorant (blush), except for
function prototyping. Well, that 'fessed up, how can I help you make your code
work?

Pete

#: 7500 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  00:02:40
Sb: Net definitions uploaded
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To: all

I've uploaded my definitions of a number of network and related terms in the
file "nets" in dl7.  (It's longer than compuserve allows in a message.)  If you
are wondering what usenet, uucp, and the Internet are you might want to take a
look at it.

#: 7501 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  00:19:21
Sb: reply to message 7370
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To: sdf

Upon rereading my own article, apperently one nights sleep wasn't enough time
to calm down properly.  Apologies to all for the tone of the message.

I am a usenet junky who grabs the messages form compuserve around once a week. 
Their software is very different from what I am used to and like, and I only
continue because of the limited number of os9 people on usenet.  Considering
how little I use it, I consider $7/month high priced.  (I try to minimize
interaction with compuserves software, and now use rn to read the messages I've
downloaded.)

Compuserves funky extra headers associated with files are not something I am
realy used to, although I knew they existed.

#: 7502 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  00:20:30
Sb: reply to message 7374
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To: all

Complied code is always inferior to source, and I never distribute it.

My system has my own customizations that have a high likelyhood of interaction
with packages like uucp, so there is a good chance that a uucp set up for a
vanila osk system would work sub-optimaly.

From what I have seen and heard of TOPS, they make different changes, and much
of their software won't work without those changes.  Because of my disagreement
with the copyright on it, I will not be installing any TOPS software requiring
"getinfo".  (The TOPS authors and I have some fundamental disagreements which
have been discussed at length in comp.os.os9.  As with most such discussions,
noone changed their mind.)

I will not install any free software I do not have source to.

#: 7503 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  00:21:21
Sb: #reply to 7384
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To: all

Authors who are willing to distribute executable code without source are likely
to be people who would run executable code from other such authors.  If you do
not see the problem with this, you don't understand how viruses work. 
Commercial messydos and mac programs have been distributed with viruses.

It does appear that compuserve has made some needed improvements to their
kermit.  The previous bug of insisting on 8-bit quoting when it is avaialable
is gone, and long packets are now supported.  I did make a mistake which wound
up not requesting long packets (which compuserve kermit now supports).  I have
not tested whether compuserve kermit supports windowing yet, c-kermit 5a (the
first unix kermit that supports them) was still in alpha test not ready for
porting to osk last time I checked.

Obviously I meant 561 bits/second, not characters/second.  The short tests I
have made with long packets enabled show reasonable throuput of about 1500 bps.
(Still half what I get under execelent conditions at v.22bis (2400 baud) mnp5
(compression).  I'll try v.32 (9600 baud) v.42bis (better compression) when I
receive the new modem I have ordered.)

Speed is as reported by the status command of c-kermit.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7579 S7/Telecommunications
    19-Oct-90  23:22:46
Sb: #7503-reply to 7384
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

The last time I checked CompuServe's modems only support MNP level 4; so, You
will never get the speed you want.  However B+ is a LOT faster than Kermit, so
transfers using it should approach your ideal speed.

William

#: 7504 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  00:22:05
Sb: #reply to 7431
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To: all

I cannot see downloading and supporting a compuserve-specfic protocol for the 1
file a year I download.  Uploads I refused to do because of compuserves
previous lowsy version of kermit and charge for uploads ($.25/hour isn't free)
I consider their loss not mine.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7518 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  10:26:00
Sb: #7504-reply to 7431
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

$0.25/hour is a *LOT* cheaper than any other network, be it Telenet, Tymenet,
Accunet, AT&T long distance or Sprint or MCI. Shoot, it's so much cheaper, it's
almost as if they are paying *you* to upload <g>! If I submit to a uucp gateway
in NYC, it costs me mucho more than that just in long distance charges (and I
live in New Jersey). (FWIW, it really doesn't cost me a thing from work).
 You're right, it's our loss, not yours, though.
 Mark

#: 7547 S7/Telecommunications
    18-Oct-90  23:43:06
Sb: #7504-reply to 7431
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

You're right, Robert... $0.25/hour isn't free.  Neither is the electricity for
all those computers and network lines that provide the service to the folks
that use it.  If the $0.25/hour is the only stumbling block to your uploading
something, let us know.  We'll either send you a couple of quarters, or give
you the address of a SYSOP that will be glad to upload your files for you.

If you can't see using a CompuServe proprietary protocol that gives a
significant improvement in throughput over any other protocol currently in use,
then it would do no good to try and convince you otherwise.

But you're wrong when you say it's "their" loss and not yours, Robert.  If you
consider yourself a member of the OS-9 community, then you share in the loss
that occurs when we are unable to reach over minor stumbling blocks to exchange
information that makes the system better off for all of us.

Wayne Day
  forum manager

#: 7516 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  10:10:48
Sb: #1-meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling, 76703,4227 (X)

Worked with MV a bit more and found a limitation in the number of windows one
can make. It seems that window memory is maxed out at 512k. This allowed up to
6 or 7 os9 shells while still having over 400k MFREE.  Knowing also that we can
not change the env.file's MEM=  at this time, I guess we're left with regular
OS9 if we need more windows, right?  But I'll bet someone is working on a fix
for this.  (right again mebbe?)    -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7528 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  16:29:34
Sb: #7516-#1-meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - I wasn't aware of any limitation with gshell that way.  The 1-meg
software will use all the memory for video if need be.

Hmmm.  Perhaps gshell counts up window memory sizes?

In any case, you should be able to open windows yourself and use up more of
that memory for video, if you wish.  Oh, and you have more than just w1-w7 in
memory, right?  (that is, you also have w8-15?)   Not having more descs would
certainly stop gshell.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7552 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  07:55:08
Sb: #7528-#1-meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Yes, descriptors 1 thru 12 get loaded in booting up but I'm not able to use
more than 6 or 7 with either MV or OS9.  Now I'm getting error 237 a lot,
sometimes can't even do DIR. 
  When using MV to put more than one small window on the same
screen, sometimes it works, most often the cursor skips over the screen where
the smaller one was created and you don't get a choice.  (?).   -ph-   

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7556 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  13:28:18
Sb: #7552-1-meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

If an aif indicates a certain minimum size which is too big to fit anywhere
else, then gshell would skip screens where it wouldn't fit.  Might be that.

Yes, error 237 (system 64K map full) will probably hit you long before an error
207 (all ram blocks used up everywhere).  Path and process descriptors along
with device memory usage, will fill up the system map when you get many things
going at once.  My util SMap will show you this going on.

That is caused partly also by the size of our system map gfx modules: cc3io and
windint... along with all the other drivers/etc we all usually boot up with. 
Hard to get around without leaving some out.

#: 7517 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    18-Oct-90  10:15:13
Sb: #Source Code
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: all

I want to come to the defense Robert Larson (not counting his tone for which he
already apologized) as I feel the same way he does about source. I have on my
machine (in its own directory) a previous release of TOP utilities that I
received from Microware (for a copying fee only). There are many programs which
will not run at all on my machine because they attempt to use memory which has
not been allocated to them. These programs WILL run on (and possibly corrupt)
systems which do not have memory protection. On the other hand, I have
downloaded Stevie with source and Kermit with source from here. I think kermit
was originally ported by Robert. Neither one of them worked on my system "out
of the box", but I was able to fix several bugs in them only because I had
SOURCE CODE.
 While I have not downloaded Mark's uucp package, I appreciate anyone willing
to upload code for other people to use as it represents humongous effort. Uucp
probably required more effort than any other package in the libraries. Source
code would still be nice.
 Mark

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7544 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    18-Oct-90  22:24:23
Sb: #7517-#Source Code
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X)

Mark,

I'm really confused over all this fuss.

Mark is not declining to release the source to UUCP. He's only declined to post
it in an effort to maintain some degree of control over his efforts.

Last time I discussed this issue with him, he was willing to send the source to
anyone that asked and included a small fee to cover media, postage and
handling.

Is there some problem with this arrangement?

Steve

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7546 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    18-Oct-90  23:08:05
Sb: #7544-#Source Code
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Well...I certainly understand Mark's position--goodness knows that in the past
people have had the experience of writing a program, posting the source, and
then being taken to task for bugs in version that have been drastically
modified by some random person.

On the other hand, I certainly understand Mr. Larson's position, and indeed
have taken a similar position myself in a similar situation.  UUCP, by its
nature, potentially sends one's files off to another system, and without
considerable care is a major potential security hole.  If login is part of the
package--well, login is the first line of defense for security, and any sort of
back door in it is a major calamity.

I'm certainly not implying anything about the package that Mark Griffith has
spent so much time on.  In fact, my inclination, by virtue of knowing how long
Mark has been around, and how many programs that Mark has worked on to the
benefit of the OS-9 community, is to trust the package.  Mr. Larson, though,
may not know Mark, and considering the potential for calamity, is
understandably leery about installing something without source code to examine
and compile.

(The similar situation alluded to above was the (first) TOP release, which did
not include code.  TOP appears to be doing a lot for OS-9, too, but without
knowing a lot more about them, I couldn't bring myself to trust their
replacement login for OS-9/68000, for example.  My understanding is that the
later TOP releases included source, so my concerns aren't necessarily
applicable any longer.)

So...oops, that should read "did not include source code" above.  Anyway,
that's what I think is happening.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7569 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    19-Oct-90  20:24:29
Sb: #7546-Source Code
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

JJ,

I don't disagree with anything you've said. As I've mentioned to Mark W. in
another reply, perhaps Mark would agree to allowing folks to download the
source from his system.

This way ... folks still have to ask, and he still maintains some degree of
control.

I'll have to ask.

Steve

#: 7553 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    19-Oct-90  09:00:29
Sb: #7544-#Source Code
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Steve,
 No, I have no problem with the arrangement, except that having it up here is
so much nicer. The only removeable media I have left on one system is a 150mb
streaming tape that few other os9ers have (my problem). Compuserve is something
we all have in common (although some D**phi'ers don't even agree with that) and
so it is just more convenient. I'm not complaining, but I just understand
Robert's feelings on the matter. I appreciate Mark's effort (is use the fool
out of sterm) as much as anybody, I believe.
 Mark

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7568 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    19-Oct-90  20:21:57
Sb: #7553-Source Code
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Mark Wuest 74030,332

Mark,

No ... I do see both sides of the issue.

As Mark is willing to release the source, perhaps he would also allow it to be
downloaded from his system. (He does keep his system up on a dial up basis).

I'm in contact with him almost daily. I'll check and see.

Steve

#: 7520 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  12:26:10
Sb: #CoCo disk drivers, etc.
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

Well, I'm now the proud owner of OS-9 Level II for the CoCo3! Unfortunately, I
don't own a machine to run it on yet.  I've been looking through the manual
though and have a few questions.  The section on "Customizing Your System"
describes the various devices that you can configure into your system.  It
seems to allow either a 35 track single sided D0 or a 40 track double sided
one, but not an 80 track double sided one.  Is it possible to make D0 a 720K
3.5 inch drive?  I know that I'd have to have a 5.25 inch drive to start with
in order to read the distribution disks, but is there a way to switch over to a
720K drive as D0?  Also, there isn't an entry for D3_80D.  Can I have four 720K
drives on my system?

I've got the FD501 disk controller from RS.  How many drives will it support? 
Will it support 720K drives?

One last question.  I've got a 9 inch monochrome composite monitor. Will that
produce an acceptable 80 column display?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

David Betz

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7524 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  16:05:56
Sb: #7520-#CoCo disk drivers, etc.
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

You can create device descriptors pretty easily by copying a similar one and
changing it as necessary with a disk zapper program like dEd. You can have /d0
as a 3.5" 720K. You cannot have four ds devices with the 501. You can use 720K
DS drives with the 501. The 501 can only support up to 3 DS drives any mix,
40-5.25, 80-5.25, 80-3.5. The 9" should look OK, I have a 10.5(?) "Magnavox
Computer Monitor 80" which looks pretty decent.

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7526 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  16:19:46
Sb: #7524-CoCo disk drivers, etc.
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Thanks!

#: 7521 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  12:28:53
Sb: #C Compiler compatability
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

I've got an old copy of the OS-9 C compiler that originally run under OS-9
Level 1.  Will it run under Level 2?  Also, will the assembler that came with
OS-9 Level 1 work with Level 2?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7525 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  16:07:33
Sb: #7521-#C Compiler compatability
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Yes it wil work just fine under level 2, and the c.asm will work fine, too. I
am assuming the Compiler you have is the same one currently sold by Tandy,
there never was a special "Level 2" version released.

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7527 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  16:20:34
Sb: #7525-C Compiler compatability
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Yes, it is the Tandy compiler (shrink wrapped and everything!). Thanks!

#: 7523 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  14:17:20
Sb: #SCSI interface?
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

Does anyone know of a CoCo hard disk interface that will support SCSI drives? 
Ideally, I'd like to find a combination floppy/hard disk interface.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7529 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  16:35:24
Sb: #7523-#SCSI interface?
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

David -

Yes, there are several coco SCSI (actually, mostly SASI) interfaces.

Ignoring sasi/scsi controller boards that also support floppies, there are also
two coco-specific floppy/hard-disk combo paks:  the Eliminator from FHL and the
Disto line of floppy/add-on cards (which fit inside their floppy controller
pak).

I would urge you to try to find a copy of Rainbow magazine at a mag store
(Dalton's, Waldenbooks too, perhaps) and check out the ads.

Oh, and the Eliminator and Disto paks can be had with serial ports, clocks,
parallel ports etc also... or are included.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7543 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  22:23:11
Sb: #7529-#SCSI interface?
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Thanks for the advice.  I looked at a copy of Rainbow that a local RS store had
and found the number for a company called CRC that sells Disto controllers.
Apparently, they are now running a sale.  I can get their model II controller
with a hard disk interface and an RS232 port for around $155.  This controller
claims to be able to run floppy drives at full speed without slowing down
keyboard response.  Sounds pretty good to me, although I may just wait and
pickup one of the TC9 boards when they come out.  I just wish I could get one
right now (I'm not impatient, am I? :-)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7545 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    18-Oct-90  22:54:39
Sb: #7543-SCSI interface?
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

There at least used to be an outfit called RGB (RGB Systems?) that sold, or
sells if it's still around, SCSI interfaces for the CoCo.

#: 7582 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  23:35:47
Sb: #7523-SCSI interface?
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Dave,

I think a company called Performance Peripherals is still alive and kicking
with what I hear is a super SCSI implementation for the CoCo! I betcha someone
here knows the scoop!

Let me know what you learn.

Paul

#: 7537 S5/OS9 Users Group
    18-Oct-90  19:59:06
Sb: #Sterm_reply
Fm: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Thanks to you and James Jones. I have Sterm working correctly. I was pleasantly
supprised at the efficiency of B+. I used xmode to change to the proper baud
rate and put all elements of the program in thier proper /dd/xxx positions
again Thanks Heaps for the help

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7542 S5/OS9 Users Group
    18-Oct-90  22:16:30
Sb: #7537-Sterm_reply
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Stanley L. Goldsberry 72060,2720

Great!

Nice to hear it's up and running. I'm sure you'll agree, B+ is the way to go
... at least here.

Steve

#: 7539 S15/Hot Topics
    18-Oct-90  21:32:33
Sb: #Advertising
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Paul Ward

Paul, by now no doubt you have made several silent vows about what you will or
will not say in the future! As an os9 user who likes competion but cringes at
in-fighting, i think that FHL's approach of neither competitor mentioning the
other is good. FWIW this is also (or has been anyway) IBM's approach. Typically
you cannot get their salesmen to comment on another mfgs product. Their
approach is always "I'll tell you about IBM's products. If you want to know
about brand X then you'd best ask them". Even their benchmark publications
typically benchmark IBM machines against each other not against the
competition. I gues that they have found it gets them into less trouble in the
long run, whether their comments are good, bad, or neutral - they don't make
them. As Calvin coolidge might have said - If you don't say nothing they can't
take offence. <Greg Morse>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7584 S15/Hot Topics
    19-Oct-90  23:45:56
Sb: #7539-Advertising
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg,

Well, certainly I take what you say deeply to heart!

I didn't intend at ALL for there to be infighting, as the mood in my heart with
my two comments had no true malice. I showed poor judgment in my comment to Ed,
and showed confusion about what Frank defines as as Tomcat in my message to
Frank.

I honestly have tried to keep OUT of saying things that respond to competitor's
comments! If you look back over messages, you'll find that there were plenty of
opportunities for me to join in. But I didn't -- although it was hard! But my
discipline did fail, and so I failed, and now I move on and say -- Bill D.,
Kevin D., and Ed, thanks for keeping me honest!

And thanks, too, Greg, for the kindly way you phrased your enjoinder to keep on
the "high road"!

Best regards,

Paul

#: 7557 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  13:47:37
Sb: #1 meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling

I tried to expand the capacity of the ram driver  ram.8k using DMODE  /r0 
cyl=023 ;  INIZ /r0 FREE /r0  showed over 1100 sectors   but DIR  gave error
214 (or was it 216?)
  Couldn't copy anything to /r0 after increasing cylinders.   -ph-
  Re previous message:  so if I don't fill up the 64k work space, then more
than 6-7 full screen windows should be possible?   And up to a maximum of 15?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7558 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  15:23:35
Sb: #7557-#1 meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - not sure. Which ram driver?

Also, be sure to chd/chx away from the ramdisk before messing with it.
Otherwise just "dir" might be confused (as what it had been chd'd to is no
longer around - chd goes by sector and device, not by names).

Right, as long as the system (kernel, driver, managers, and so on) 64K doesn't
get filled up, you can keep adding processes and windows.  The actual maximum
window count is 32, but overlay windows (menus are also oops no they're not
-sorry) count towards that maximum, so 16 (term and w1-5) seems like a fair
limit.

PS: you're doing fine. Could I get you to keep these msgs in section 10 (coco)
tho?  Thanks! - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7594 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  07:45:51
Sb: #7558-#1 meg upgrade
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,  the ram driver is Ken Drexler's adaptation of your rammer developed for
4k block machines, but containing an 8k version largely untested.  I believe it
was called  RAMDISK.AR   or  RAMDRIVE.AR.   Forgot which library it's in. 
Instead of pursuing this farther, due to time contraints, I believe I'll wait
for the release of Microcom's ramdrive for the 1 meg upgrade.   Any way to
determine unused system memory, or sys-memory used?   -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7618 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  22:56:30
Sb: #7594-1 meg upgrade
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Yes, get UTIL2.BIN, UTIL3.BIN (more utils plus replacements for some in UTIL2)
and UTIL2.DOC... in there is SMap, which will show you system memory space, and
the other utils like PMap will help you visualize different maps. The docs are
super bare, so yell if you can't figure out what you see <grin>!

#: 7559 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  15:32:56
Sb: #FD501 cable
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

Well, it seems that I've got a working FD501 interface.  Now I need a cable to
attach it to my floppy drive(s).  Will a straight ribbon cable with the
appropriate connectors work or do I need something a little more exotic?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7560 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  17:24:26
Sb: #7559-#FD501 cable
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

David -

Tandy, in their questionable wisdom, used special cables. There's a workaraound
though....

The Tandy drives have all the select lines set to ON. Then, they remove all but
1 drive select pin from the edge connector at each point on the ribbon cable.
This way, the drive # is a function of where it is placed on the ribbon cable.
Example: the drive 0 connector (on the Tandy cable) would have pin 10 hooked
up, but not pin 12, 14, or (32 or 34?)...

The workaround is get a cable with all 34 pins connected, and just disable the
jumpers on the disk drive for drive selects that aren't wanted.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7561 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  17:34:17
Sb: #7560-FD501 cable
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

That sounds pretty straight forward.  Thanks for the info.

David



#: 7565 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  18:10:41
Sb: #7559-#FD501 cable
Fm: Randy Wilson 71561,756
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)


David,

    If I'm assuming correctly, you do NOT have the Tandy drives, just the
controller. In this case, just make a ribbon cable with all the pins passed
straight through, set the drive select jumpers on the drives, and go. Oh, if
provided, set the motor-on and head solinoid to follow the motor-on line, not
the select line.

    To answer some of your other (and coming) questions, you have three options
that I can think of off hand. The builtin "serial" port (called the bit-banger)
is useless for telcom under OS9 (details upon request). One is the Disto Super
Controller 2 with the 4-in-1 board. This will give you a serial, parallel,
hardware clock, SCSI port, and a "no-halt" (read sector cacheing) floppy
controller. The second option is the Eliminator. This has two serials, a
parallel, RTC, and interfaces to an external controller (forgot which one,
check FHL's ad in Rainbow) for a floppy and 506/412 HD controller. The third is
to wait for a TomCat or other to grace your desk.

    There are other ways to add all the needed periphrials, but most(all?) of
the rest would require an external bus expansion thingie, which makes things
more expensive, and a whole bunch uglier. Study the ads in a Rainbow, and ask
away.

Randy

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7567 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  19:14:01
Sb: #7565-FD501 cable
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Randy Wilson 71561,756 (X)

Thanks, Randy.  Right now, I think I'm going to stick with the FD501 and a 360K
drive and maybe two 720K drives.  I've managed to piece together a copy of OS-9
(on sale at RS), the C compiler (had that from the last time I tried to put
together a CoCo system) and the FD501.  All I need now is the CoCo3 itself and
some drives.  I've already got a PC power supply that will power the drives. 
The setup will be *very* ugly since the drives won't be mounted in a case, but
I suppose it will work.

Thanks again, David

#: 7562 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  17:38:44
Sb: #software survey
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

Now that I seem to be on my way into the CoCo3 OS-9 world, I'm starting to
wonder what sorts of other people use this system. What sorts of applications
do people here use OS-9 for?  Are many of you developers?  What sorts of
software are you developing? What kinds of software are you looking for that
you can't find in the stuff that's already available?

Right now, I'd like to find a program that runs on the CoCo and will ready 360K
MS-DOS disks to make it easier to move stuff between my 386SX machine and the
CoCo.  Actually, a program that ran under MS-DOS that could read/write OS-9
disks would be fine also.  Has the directory structure of an CoCo OS-9 disk
been published?

David Betz

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7586 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  01:11:52
Sb: #7562-#software survey
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Well...I use my CoCo for modeming, as a terminal to my 68020 box, to edit text,
and to play music.  I also do some programming, though it seems that a lot of
the time I wind up modifying code rather than writing it.

What I'd like to see on the CoCo is a reasonable desktop publishing program,
sort of what Home Publisher should have been.  A program that does something
like SoftCraft's Fancy Fonts would be very nice, too.

As for dealing with MS-DOS format stuff, you have several alternatives.  I
think that at least one of them lives in DL10 here.  D.P. Johnson sells what is
from the OS-9 point of view the most elegant solution, namely a file manager
that handles MS-DOS format disks.  (It requires his device driver, SDISK3.)
Another outfit, Granite Computer Systems (I may not have that name right!),
sells some programs that manipulate MS-DOS disks.  (It might require SDISK3,
too; I'm not sure about that.)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7592 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  07:02:24
Sb: #7586-software survey
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Thanks for your comments.  I'll take a look in DL10 for the MS-DOS handling
stuff.

#: 7581 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    19-Oct-90  23:29:50
Sb: #hard drive
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To:  72240,304

Chris:

I have decided on the hard drive. What I need to do now is decide on which one
to go with. I am well aware of the popularity of your unit, and am giving it
much consideration. What I would like to know from you is will the CoCo XT work
with the Disto stuff I'm now using?

My system as of now consists of:

     CoCo 3 with Disto 512K upgradec     Disto Super Controller I
     Disto 3in1 board. (RS232,RTC,Parallel port)
     Bob Puppo's keyboard interface

I have a Tandy MPI, but don't use it at this time. I know it will be used with
the CoCo XT. BU, would there be an addressing problem in using the XT with the
3in1 board? This stuff isn't really my bag, but it appears that the 3in1 is
memory mapped from $FF51 through $FF57.

Maybe this stuff has already bben worked out, maybe there never was a problem,
eather way, I'd sure like your input. By the way I run under OS-9 exclusivly.

Also is the patch for ccheck somewhere on here?

     >Lute<

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7591 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  06:59:44
Sb: #7581-#hard drive
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)

Why not just trade in your 3in1 interface for a 4in1 from Disto and use a SCSI
hard disk?  That way you won't have to clutter up your desk with the MPI.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7630 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    21-Oct-90  16:06:57
Sb: #7591-hard drive
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To: David Betz 76704,47

I would if it were only that easy. Not many coco people around here, so it's
not real easy to get rid of things like a 3in1. However that was my very first
idea.

        >Lute<

#: 7585 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  00:48:46
Sb: #Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: [F] Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

So, now that everybody has kissed (?) and made up, I have a question.

Just what was at the 'fest?  Some of us didn't make it to Atlanta.  I take it
there was some neat stuff from the conversation that has been going on, but
would somebody please tell me what IMS, FHL, and Delmar actually had?

Thanks a lot!

  --Colin



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7595 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  09:31:29
Sb: #7585-#Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Colin,

As I, too, came away a bit confused (is Kev's mini review in error?), maybe
each of the pricipals, Frank, Ed and Paul, would post _their own_ impressions
of the fest and what was going on in their booths.

Nothing like getting it from the horses ....ahhh...err..hmmm.... mouth.

Yeah ... that's the ticket!

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7603 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  12:23:04
Sb: #7595-Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Yeah, a report of what was going on in thier OWN booths!  (Sorry, couldn't
resist!  Heh heh heh)

;-)

  --Colin

#: 7593 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  07:45:08
Sb: #chips for 512K upgrades
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

What kind of memory chips do the 512K CoCo upgrades require?  I've got a bunch
of 41256-12 chips laying around.  Is there an upgrade that they will fit into? 
I assume it would be cheaper to buy just the board and plug in the chips
myself.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7604 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  13:22:08
Sb: #7593-chips for 512K upgrades
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Disto, and perhaps others, sell 512K boards with no RAM for those who want to
supply their own.  I don't know what chips would go in them, so I don't know
whether the 41256-12 chips you have will work.

#: 7614 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  22:45:39
Sb: #7593-#chips for 512K upgrades
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Dave - I'm pretty sure 41256-12's will work just fine.  Sounds like the correct
chip number to me (and 120ns is perfect).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7620 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Oct-90  23:34:15
Sb: #7614-chips for 512K upgrades
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Thanks.  I guess I just need an unpopulated board then.  I'm getting close to
having a working system.  Thanks for your help.

#: 7600 S6/Applications
    20-Oct-90  10:01:46
Sb: #cron help
Fm: Ted Miller 76545,457
To:  76703,4230 (X)

Hello Pete;

I recently downloaded your cron utility and have experienced a problem with it.
I made a simple test crontab file and put it in both /dd/sys and /r0/sys
directories as per instructions. Then when I invoke cron (cron -l&) it starts
fine and a proc shows it running. However when cron first wakes up to read
crontab it errors out and exits. A listing of /dd/log/cronerrs shows cron
error: cannot open /r0/sys/crontab. My crontab file consists of "30 * * * *
list startup>/p&". What am I doing wrong?

BTW I am using a Coco 3 with 512k and normally startup with gshell.

Ident for cron:

Header for:  Cron Module size: $038D    #909 Module CRC:  $CAF6EF (Good) Hdr
parity:  $A3 Exec. off:   $00A4    #164 Data Size:   $0200    #512 Edition:    
$05      #5 Ty/La At/Rv: $11 $84 Prog mod, 6809 obj, re-en, R/O


Hope you can shed some light

Ted Miller

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7609 S6/Applications
    20-Oct-90  20:03:38
Sb: #7600-#cron help
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X)

Nothing jumps out at me.... are there other problems like a shortage of system
RAM? Too many open paths?

Do you have the latest version of CRON from here? Also, try running with just a
/dd/sys/crontab file (or just an /r0/sys/crontab)...

Pete

#: 7622 S6/Applications
    21-Oct-90  03:21:14
Sb: #7600-#cron help
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X)

Hi Ted!

I'm using 'cron' on a regular basis.  I did an ident on my copy and it is
different from yours.  Size is 0378 and the CRC is D7AB49.  This is different
than what you reported.  Your hardware setup is similar to mine but I use
shell+ rather than Gshell but I can't see that would make a difference.

Hopefully, if Pete sees this, he can check to see if the correct version is
posted.

And Pete, I've used several of your programs and they are *GREAT*.  Very happy
with them.

Ed

#: 7601 S1/General Interest
    20-Oct-90  10:15:09
Sb: weird address?
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: All

Folks,

What with all the chatter going on about Mark's UUCP port, I've passed on a few
of the message to him. In turn, Mark felt compelled to reply to a couple.

They're posted under my User ID, however his signature is in both. I hope this
doesn't confuse anybody. Mark's efforts with the UUCP port were tremendous and
deserve proper attention.

It's unfortunate that it was necessary for him to temporarily leave the OS9
Forum neighborhood at this particular time, but we'll do our best keeping him
posted.

Steve

#: 7607 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  15:51:53
Sb: #info
Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676
To: ALL

   I hope that the recent exchange of zaps, reprimands, and apologies will not
put a damper on the flow of information about ALL of the new 68k machines that
has appeared here.

   Keep writing guys.  I get on here several times a week to look for ANY
information about the new stuff.

   I saw a suggestion from Kevin that messages from company reps be identified
as such - that sounds fair.

   As far as "damaging comments", does anybody REALLY accept what the FORD
salesman says about CHEVY's as gospel?  The FORD guy knows in his heart that he
has the best car in the world. If you want to know about CHEVY's, you ask the
CHEVY guy, right? After all, a truly objective salesman would probably starve.

   So, keep answering all the questions as best you can, please. I have read 
just about every message in this section since it started, and I'm sure a lot
of others have too.

   HMMM, there's a thought.  I wonder if CIS has a way of counting how many
times a message is read (like "accesses #" in the LIB's).

                                         JohnW
                                         JohnW

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7619 S15/Hot Topics
    20-Oct-90  23:05:16
Sb: #7607-info
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X)

 >I wonder if CIS has a way of counting how many times a message is read (like
 >"accesses #" in the LIB's).

Not as far as I know, JohnW.... though it'd certainly be nice to have,
sometimes.

<Grin>

  Wayne

#: 7608 S3/Languages
    20-Oct-90  19:55:30
Sb: #RMA woes
Fm: Richard Ries 76057,3534
To: All

I am trying to write a subroutine for BASIC09 using the RMA. It simply causes
the screen to "BEEP". Unfortunately, it dumps me out of BASIC09 into OS-9 when
I am finished. Any help would be greatly appreciated! The Listing isI$Write equ
$8A F$Exit equ $06 psect beep,$21,$81,0,0,start start:
 leax char,pc
 lda #1
 ldy #1
 OS9 I$Write
 clrb
 OS9 F$Exit * Using RTS has the same effect char:
 fcb $07
 endsect

Thanks,
 Rich

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7611 S3/Languages
    20-Oct-90  20:06:44
Sb: #7608-RMA woes
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Richard Ries 76057,3534

Richard -

F$EXIT would assuredly blow you back to os9... that's voluntary termination.
How are you interfacing with the routine (i.e. what caling convention are you
using)? There are some rules in the B09 (and C) manuals regarding interfacing
to external modules...

Pete

#: 7621 S3/Languages
    21-Oct-90  01:37:01
Sb: #7608-RMA woes
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Richard Ries 76057,3534

Rich - basic09 subroutines are, well, subroutines... not programs.  That's
the key.  Basic09/runb executes a subroutine like it was part of its own
code.  Therefore your F$Exit was actually run by basic09 and so basic09
exited.   I know you said "rts" didn't work... dunno why.  Worked here
with the same program for me:

 psect beep,$21,$81,revs,0,0,entry

I$Write equ $8A
F$Exit  equ $06

entry
 leax char,pc
 lda  #1
 ldy  #1
 os9  I$Write
 clrb
 rts

char fcb $07
 ends

*******************
PROCEDURE Beeptest
RUN beep
END

However, you'll need guidance on passing parameters when you get to that
kind of thing... let me know. - kev

#: 7624 S3/Languages
    21-Oct-90  11:05:03
Sb: #7608-RMA woes
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Richard Ries 76057,3534

Why not just use RUN gfx2("BELL")?

#: 7610 S1/General Interest
    20-Oct-90  20:04:20
Sb: OS9 Info
Fm: Rodney Harper 75130,1321
To: all


I have been fooling with OS9 now for a year, and am now using it almost 100% of
time that I am on my COCO.  I have a few questions that I would like to throw
out in the field.

I subscribe to Nine-Times magazine on Disk, I really like it, but is there any
other OS9 Magazines out there ? Besides Rainbow ?

What is the OS9 Users Group ?


Thanks....


>>Rod<<




#: 7612 S3/Languages
    20-Oct-90  22:14:35
Sb: Cross Compiler
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To:  76703,4230

Pete - you remember Fred Fierling? He is looking for a cross compiler that
would run under unix and produce code for a 68000 series chip suitable for
embedded applications. I dont think the embedded applications will use OS9.
could you leave me your UNIX email address (he now has a Usenet feed) or phone
number or give him a call at (604) 879-8004. Tnx <greg morse>

#: 7613 S1/General Interest
    20-Oct-90  22:29:47
Sb: The Week in Review
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: All

The recent discussions between various participants in the newest round of OS-9
hardware development has been, to say the least, distressing to many folks. 
Never before in the history of this forum have I received as many requests from
forum members to "do something".

If it appears as if we, the forum's SYSOPs, just sat back and waited for things
to take their natural course... your perception is right.  That really was the
only way things would be able to work out so that everyone felt that they got a
fair shake.

I, or any of the SYSOPS, could have moved any or all of the messages out of
public view.  We could have delted the message.  We could have asked everyone
to hold out their hands while we got the rulers out (those of you who attended
Catholic schools will know what I mean!).

We didn't, and because we allowed the conversations to progress, both on the
forum and (thankfully for the outcome) offline as well, everyone looks like
they're friends again, or at least plan on being civil to each other in an
attempt to serve the OS-9 community with factual and appropriate comments about
their own hardware, leaving the OS-9 user to make up his own mind about who is,
or is not, the "good guy".

Now, in an effort to help prevent something like this from happening in the
future, we're shuffling the sections around a little bit to provide a private
section where OS-9 vendors (hardware and/or software) can talk amongst
themselves.

We've moved the messages and the library files from the Atari ST section into
the general OS9/68000 (OSK) section, at least for the next while, and Section
13 has been assigned to OS-9 Vendors.

Unlucky 13?  Only if it's not used!

And to all, a little reminder that we always want forum members to feel free to
express themselves almost however they want.  The exceptions are personal
attacks on anyone which never serve any good purpose and tend to alienate so
many folks (as was demonstrated again over the last few days!).

Thanks to all for making and keeping this forum the OS-9 community's best foot
forward!

  Wayne Day
  forum manager

#: 7615 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    20-Oct-90  22:52:06
Sb: #New Vendor's Section
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: All

The OS-9 Forum has established Section 13 - OS9/OSK Vendors - as a semi-private
meeting ground for both hardware and software vendors who are servicing the
OS-9 community.

Admission to this section is by invitation of the Forum Manager or his
designated Associate SYSOP only.

It is important to note that invitations to participate in this section will be
extended to established companies, and not individual persons. A company may
name any person they choose to represent them in this section, but should
remember that the person named will be assumed to be an official spokesman for
the company.

Only one person per company will be allowed access to this section.  That
person shall act as the information dispersal point within his company, and
shall funnel information from within that company into the section.  Messages
to and from company employees/associates who are not active in the section
shall be clearly marked as such within the body of the message.

An invitation to participate in this section will be issued to any established
who applies for an invitation. A company will be considered to be "established"
if they (a) have advertised an OS-9 based product in a nationally circulated
publication within the last 6 months or (b) have an OS-9 product under
development and can document to the SYSOP that the company has a business
license/sales permit/tax permit for doing business in its state of domicile,
and that such OS-9 product will be released to the market within 6 months.

 [continued in first reply]



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7616 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    20-Oct-90  22:53:50
Sb: #7615-New Vendor's Section
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

 [continued from 7615]

Any other company who desires to be represented in this section, but who feels
that they may not meet the criteria listed above may request exemption from
those requirements, presenting whatever evidence they deem appropriate.

Any company who desires access to this Section shall request same in a message
to *SYSOP on the forum, or through CompuServe mail to : Wayne Day 76703,376, or
via the US Mail to: Wayne Day, Golden Triangle Corporation, P O Box 79074 Fort
Worth, TX, 76179-0074.  Telephone calls will not be accepted as requests for
access!  Each request shall be from the president/owner/CEO of the company and
shall state that the company agrees to the rules of participation in the
section, as stated above.

We are instituting these rules not to keep anyone "deserving" out.  It's not
even to keep "new" folks out.  It IS to make sure that everyone who
participates in this section is a bona fide vendor!

If you have any questions about the new Vendor's Section, eligibility
requirements, or how to gain access, please feel free to ask me in a message
here on the forum!

  Wayne Day
    forum manager


PS: This new section will be available to everyone for the first two weeks, in
order to get the word spread around.  After that, at a date to be announced by
the SYSOP, it will become accessible to only those companies who have requested
access.

#: 7626 S7/Telecommunications
    21-Oct-90  14:53:20
Sb: upload prices
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To:  74030,332

Newsgroups: compuserve.os9.comm Subject: Re: reply to 7431 References:
<os9.7504@compuserve.com> <os9.7518@compuserve.com>

[Appologies for the silly message titles of my previous batch of replies, I
assumed that if you can upload a message, and can reply to a message, that you
should be able to upload a reply to a message. Compuserve doesn't follow that
logic, so this isn't a reply as far as they are conserned.]

In article <os9.7518@compuserve.com> 74030.332@compuserve.com (Mark Wuest)
writes: >$0.25/hour is a *LOT* cheaper than any other network, be it Telenet,
Tymenet, >Accunet, AT&T long distance or Sprint or MCI.

(Compuserve has raised their upload rates to $.30/hour.)

At 1500 bps kermit long packets v.22bis mnp4, compuserve uploads are about
$.55/megabyte, ignoring the time at $.21/min charged for the per file setup and
the monthly account maintance fee.  Compserve is designed assuming there is a
human available to respond when each file is transfered, so add about $20/hour
for my time.

At 12000 bps uucp PEP, UUNET uploads and downloads are about $2.00/megabyte
(nightime 800), ignoring per-call (not per message) setup time, monthly account
maintance, and assuming you pay bills resonably promptly.  If you are working
with compressable files, it will be cheaper.  (PEP is 14.4 kbps max before
compression.) UUCP is designed for computer to computer transfers, it can be
done automaticly at any convient (for the computers) time.

The incramental cost of data over the NSFnet section of the Internet is
virtually non-existant.  (It uses fixed-cost links, enough volume will require
a higher-bandwidth higher-priced link.) Since I do have such access at no cost
to me via a local (no incramental cost) phone call from home, it costs me
nothing to send and receive files via the Internet or usenet.  I do so using
v.32 mnp4, and am getting about 4500 bps on kermit.

> Shoot, it's so much cheaper, it's almost as if they are paying *you* > to
upload <g>!

Somehow, this logic slips by me.



#: 7627 S7/Telecommunications
    21-Oct-90  14:54:43
Sb: #uploading
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To:  76703,376

Newsgroups: compuserve.os9.comm Subject: Re: reply to 7431 References:
<os9.7504@compuserve.com> <os9.7547@compuserve.com>

In article <os9.7547@compuserve.com> 76703.376@compuserve.com (Wayne Day)
writes: >If the $0.25/hour is the only stumbling block to your uploading
>something, let us know.

Not realy.  It's more my time, compuserve's poor support of kermit, (which has
improved sometime in the past couple of years since I last tried it), and the
principal of the matter.

> We'll either send you a couple of quarters,

Give them to Mark Griffith, he apperently needs them more.

>If you can't see using a CompuServe proprietary protocol that gives a
>significant improvement in throughput over any other protocol currently in
use,

Kermit sliding windows long packets is about 15% slower than theoreticly
possible.  (Binary files, faster on ascii.)  Zmodem is about 1% slower than
theoreticly possible.  When compuserve supports Zmodem, I'll consider porting
rz and sz to osk.  As far as I know, B+ is slower than Zmodem.  I think
compuserve is wasting it's own resorces and it's customers money inventing yet
another file transfer protocol.  I frequently use a kermit implementation done
by one of compuserve's compeditors, who invented the sliding-window enhancement
as a way around the inherent limitations of an x.25 network.

v.32 (9600 baud) modems are now available under $500.  Good brands that also
support v.42bis compression are under $650.  It is time for compuserve to plan
hardware upgrades.

I recomend watching the usenet newsgroup comp.os.os9 if you want access to my
software as it becomes available.  Small os9 specific things get posted
directly there (which means they arn't archived unfortuanatle), other things
are available from comp.sources.misc, comp.sources.unix, the columbia kermit
archives, etc. with postings on comp.os.os9 pointing them out.  I've never
posted anything there with a restriction that would prevent you from uploading
it to compuserve.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7629 S7/Telecommunications
    21-Oct-90  15:17:43
Sb: #7627-uploading
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723

rz and sz have already been ported to OS-9/68000.  I haven't looked closely at
the source, but it exists.

#: 7628 S7/Telecommunications
    21-Oct-90  14:56:03
Sb: #uucp
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To: all

Newsgroups: compuserve.os9.comm Subject: Re: UUCP frustrations References:
<os9.7365@compuserve.com> <os9.7598@compuserve.com>

[I've also sent this message to Mark Griffith via Internet/bitnet gateway.]

In article <os9.7598@compuserve.com> 76703.4255@compuserve.com (Steve Wegert)
writes:

>I'm sorry you found the UUCP port not to your liking.  I believe I did mention
>a couple times that this was the OS9/6809 port.

I am quite willing to start from os9/6809 source code, and that was what I
expected.  The announcments on compuserve made no mention of it being 6809
specific or object code only.  (The header displayed by the browse command did
mention it, but I knew I wanted UUCP for my machine, so I didn't look there
before downloading.)

>As for the lack of source code....I thought about this a lot and decided that
>the need to keep some control over the source and the port outweighed the
>desire to upload them.

I guess I've just never felt this "need to keep control".  Modified versions
should be labled as such, but that does not mean they should not be
distributed.

>  I think this is resonable given the year I spent doing >the port and the
time and money spent testing, talking to beta testers, etc.

I've spent lots of time on some pretty big projects too.  Beleive me, mg 2a
beta testing on 8 different operating systems was non-trivial. (+1 if you count
cpm/68k which was given up on fairly early, -1 if you don't count msdos which
missed the release deadline and was added after.)

> As I mentioned in the docs, anyone wanting the source code just needs to >
drop me a line and include $5 for the cost of the disk and postage.

There is no such mention in the supplied documentation.  (Yes, I did read it.) 
If I had you would have your $5 by now.  The copyright file requires such a
notice, but there is none.

>I also question your mentioning viruses.  Since I nor anyone I know has seen
or >heard of an OS9 virus, I think it kinda unresonable for you to suggest that
I >might put one in the upload.

I do not believe you would INTENTIONALY spread a virus.  Do you believe

Press <CR> !>