

#: 19328 S1/General Interest
    15-Nov-93  03:59:18
Sb: #19308-ddx
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: tom farrow 72701,543 (X)

 Tom,

 Stephen Carville, author of DataDex isn't on CIS.  You can reach at DELPHI
 as PAGAN.  You might want to send him a message outlining your problem.
 He has a SYSTEM IV, too.

 Ed

#: 19329 S1/General Interest
    15-Nov-93  13:49:55
Sb: #OS9 for the Amiga A500
Fm: Philip Lee 70630,2542
To: ALL

I still run OS9 on Tandy CoCo sometimes but would like to run OS9 on my Amiga
A500 which has 2.5 Mb of RAM and A hard disk. Obviously this would be faster
than in the past.
Does anyone know if it availlable for the above machine?
Thanks.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19330 S1/General Interest
    15-Nov-93  19:02:05
Sb: #19329-#OS9 for the Amiga A500
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Philip Lee 70630,2542 (X)

I pulled this down from the CoCo List in September. It has some interesting
comments on OS9 for the Amiga.

Steve

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All, I received the following summary from Digby Tarvin, the person who
ported OS9 to the Amiga.

---- Summary follows --

Firstly, let me quickly review the products available from Microware. The
initial 6809 product, which was available as level I or II (the latter
supporting an expanded memory model) has been discontinued. Its successor,
OS-9/68000, is available as either "Industrial" or "Professional". Industrial
OS-9 is Kernel and serial I/O only, and is intended for imbedded systems.
Professional is intended as a multi user development system including
everything in industrial, plus file system and tape support, a full range of
utilities and the Microware C compiler. An earlier "Personal" OS-9 package
intended for hobyists has unfortunately been discontinued.

A variation on the above packages is required for use with 68020 or better
processors. This version is called OS-9/68020 and comes with a different kernel
and enhanced C compiler to allow access to the more powerful instruction set.
The correct kernel must be used for the host CPU, but there is no difference
for application software. The OS-9/68020 versions cost about 50\% more than
their 68000 counterparts.

Finally, Microware have released a kernel which has been re-coded in C, called
OS-9000. The main effect this has is to allow non Motorolla systems to be
supported. It does, however, require a more powerfull CPU. For example a
minimum 68020 for Motorolla or 386 for Intel platforms.

The Microware product that we have licenced is Professional OS-9\/68000 Version
2\.4. We are attempting to keep the price at US\$600.00 in line with Microwares
price for the equivalent Atari product. Unfortunately, even though this is
quite a bit below the the recommended retail price, it is expensive for hobyist
use.

An OS-9/68020 version of our port has been tested on an A3000, but we are
waiting for some definite interest before comitting the money for a licence.
Consequently, I cannot quote an exact price at this stage. We have not licensed
the OS-9000 product yet as it could only be used on a small subset of Amiga
machines (those with 68020 or better processors), and the 68000 product is
still better supported (new products are usually available for OS-9/68000
before OS-9000). It is also quite a bit more expensive, so it will probably
wait till there is some evidence of demand.

We use the system in house on A1000, A2000 and A3000. It has also been used at
Microware on A500s.

It is a bit difficult to summarise the technical details in a couple of pages,
but I would be happy to answer any specific questions you may have about the
implementation or support for specific disk controllers and other hardware.

As a very brief outline, the system takes over the Amiga completely so it
retains its realtime qualities and performs like a very standard OS-9
environment. It requires no rom replacement or other hardware modification, so
switching between OS-9 and Amigados (or any other operating system) requires
only a re-boot. The Amiga display is supported as a colour text terminal with
customizable emulation and font module support. It also supports multiple
virtual screens much like that provided by Amiga Unix.

Several graphical environments are available for OS-9, including Rave, X11,
gwindows and MGR. However these are not currently supported for the Amiga
display.

We are looking at these but the main problem is the substantial price increase
that would result and of course deciding on the most appropriate choice. Rave
would allow CDI application compatibility which may be of interest to hobbyists
and developers, X11 of course provides increased UNIX workstation
compatibility, and gwindows/MGR a Mac style operating environment. A company in
Switzerland have volunteered to undertake a port of MGR which I will be very
interested to see.

To summarise some answers to some common questions:
 Operating System Vers: Professional OS-9/68000 V2.4
 Booting:               Can boot from any floppy or hard disk
                        OS9 Kickstart may be used on A1000 to gain
                        an extra 256K of write-protectable ram.
                        Supported by AmigaDOS
 Terminals:             VT100 emulation on amiga display
                        Full support for amiga serial port
                        Driver for ASGD serial card available
                        Commodore A2232 driver under development
 Disks:                 Internal floppy drive supported
                        Primary format is amiga standard encoding
                        OS-9 Universal format supported for
                        compatibility
                        Driver for A2090 HD available
                        Driver for A2091/A3000/A590 HD available soon
                        (new SCSI driver technology will support SCSI tape
                        disk etc)
 Amiga Utilities:       AmigaDOS file system access utility
                        Convert amiga font files to OS9 font modules

 SSM:                   SSM may be used when hardware supports it.

 Price:                 US$600.00

We are currenty updating our licence to include the new Microware 'Ultra C'
Ansi C compiler technology. This will add about US$150.00 to the price of a
license. The compiler if purchased separately from Microware will be priced at
US$1,300. This would seem like a good buy for professional users, but does
increase the entry cost for hobyists. I would be interested in any thoughts you
may have on this.

Thank you again for your enquiry. I hope this information is of some
assistance.


Digby Tarvin Tesseract Pty Ltd 53 George St. REDFERN. NSW. 2016 Australia

FAX: +61 2 698 8881

digbyt@extro.ucc.su.oz.au


There is 1 Reply.

#: 19333 S1/General Interest
    16-Nov-93  12:21:33
Sb: #19330-OS9 for the Amiga A500
Fm: Philip Lee 70630,2542
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Thanks Steve.
Phil.
 

#: 19331 S1/General Interest
    15-Nov-93  19:51:39
Sb: #hard drive
Fm: keith bauer 71102,317
To: ALL

Well I lost my hard drive on my MM/1. It was a seagate ST157N. I did have a
backup from about 2 weeks ago (thanks Mark for HDBackup). I have a new HD
coming in, it is a Maxtor 7213SR 213meg unit. Is there anything I need to know
about installing it? Like jumper settings or such. I guess I will need to
change my maxcount to around 32000 since this one will be alot faster than my
old one.

Thanks Keith

There are 3 Replies.

#: 19332 S1/General Interest
    16-Nov-93  11:40:03
Sb: #19331-hard drive
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X)

 > Well I lost my hard drive on my MM/1. It was a seagate ST157N. I did have a
 > backup from about 2 weeks ago (thanks Mark for HDBackup). I have a new HD
 > coming in, it is a Maxtor 7213SR 213meg unit. Is there anything I need to
 > know about installing it? Like jumper settings or such. I guess I will
 > need to change my maxcount to around 32000 since this one will be alot
 > faster than my old one.

Make certain you match the SCSI ID. I think Maxtor ships drives set to
something other than what you'd expect. Mark may be able to help with the
settings.

I've got my maxcount set to 2048 to help eliminate the mouse locking problem.
You may want to experiment with what's best for you.

Also, if the Seagate is the terminated device now, you'll want to make sure the
Maxtor is as well when you complete the installation.



*- Steve -*


#: 19334 S1/General Interest
    16-Nov-93  18:11:25
Sb: #19331-hard drive
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X)

I've got the same drive...all you need to do is set the SCSI ID # via the
jumpers. If it a 2nd drive you need to pull the resistor packs too. BTW, I have
my maxcount set to 16384; and I've heard others with even smaller values.
Apparently if you get it small enuf the mouse lock-up problems go away.

#: 19335 S1/General Interest
    16-Nov-93  18:26:48
Sb: #19331-#hard drive
Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555
To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X)

 > Well I lost my hard drive on my MM/1. It was a seagate ST157N. I did have a
 > backup from about 2 weeks ago (thanks Mark for HDBackup). I have a new HD
 > coming in, it is a Maxtor 7213SR 213meg unit. Is there anything I need to
 > know about installing it? Like jumper settings or such. I guess I will
 > need to change my maxcount to around 32000 since this one will be alot
 > faster than my old one.

Keith,

Sorry to hear about your hard drive passing away. But I'm glad to hear you have
chosen an excellent replacement. Life goes on!!

I have TWO 7213S Maxtors, dunno what the SR is, but I have been utterly
satisfied with mine. I posted a "war story" file to the BITNET list which
described my experiance of replacing my Seagate ST1096N with my first Maxtor
7213S. I'll try to dig up a copy and mail it to you. In case it doesn't
mention, my /h0 dmode shows maxcount at 65535.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


There is 1 Reply.

#: 19336 S1/General Interest
    17-Nov-93  11:20:32
Sb: #19335-#hard drive
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X)

 > Maxtor 7213S. I'll try to dig up a copy and mail it to you. In case it
 > doesn't mention, my /h0 dmode shows maxcount at 65535.
 >

That's the default value, Zack. After talking Kevin P., I've found that
reducing the value to 2048 has all but eliminated my mouse lock up problem.
What few I have left are solved by running a little script I put together with
the help of Mike Haaland:

 load -d /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods/t2
 xmode /t2 baud=1200
 iniz /t2




*- Steve -*


There is 1 Reply.

#: 19340 S1/General Interest
    17-Nov-93  19:32:32
Sb: #19336-#hard drive
Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

 > load -d /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods/t2
 > xmode /t2 baud=1200
 > iniz /t2


Hmmm, ... why couldn't you just:

$ cd /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods
$ xmode /t2 baud=1200
$ save t2 -f=t2.1200
$ fixmod -u t2.1200
$ chd <dir containing bootlist files>
$ <edit bootlist to refer to t2.1200>
$ os9gen -eb=200 /d0 -z=<bootlist filename>

Can't remember if the fixmod is required, but it wouldn't hoit!! I have
a /t0 device modified in this very manner to 2400 baud. You may still need
to do the iniz /t2 in your startup.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19342 S1/General Interest
    18-Nov-93  12:12:49
Sb: #19340-hard drive
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X)

 > Hmmm, ... why couldn't you just:
 >
 > $ cd /dd/bootmods/update/scf/mods
 > $ xmode /t2 baud=1200
 > $ save t2 -f=t2.1200
 > $ fixmod -u t2.1200
 > $ chd <dir containing bootlist files>
 > $ <edit bootlist to refer to t2.1200>
 > $ os9gen -eb=200 /d0 -z=<bootlist filename>
 >
 > Can't remember if the fixmod is required, but it wouldn't hoit!! I have
 > a /t0 device modified in this very manner to 2400 baud. You may still
 > need to do the iniz /t2 in your startup.
 >

Well ... originally, one was not supposed to have both the mouse stuff and
 /t2 both in the boot at the same time. I suppose this has changed somewhere
along the line.

I'm not certain it's having /t2 in memory that fixes the mouse lockups or the
fact that it's iniz'd that clears the problem.


*- Steve -*


#: 19339 S1/General Interest
    17-Nov-93  18:20:12
Sb: #Repacking MM/1 question
Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555
To: all

I have a new PC case on order in which I plan to repack my MM/1a. I plan to
provide stereo input and output jacks which will be wired to the MM/1's analog
sound port. Question is, what types of connectors would you'all recommend? What
kind of connectors are on the back of your standard Sound Blaster type of card?


------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


There is 1 Reply.

#: 19378 S1/General Interest
    22-Nov-93  20:47:22
Sb: #19339-Repacking MM/1 question
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X)

Don't know if this helps in your design, but I just bought a pair of "computer
speakers". They come with a mini-phone plug (same as a walkman headphone jack).
Might mean that a mini-plug might be best. Now I have to make a little adaptor
cable for mine since it is set up for phono-plugs. Oh well.

#: 19345 S1/General Interest
    18-Nov-93  21:34:41
Sb: #SCSI Drives.
Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514
To: all

Can someone suppy me with model numbers and brand names for SCSI hard drives
that have the controllers as part of the drive (instead of a seperate
controller)?  I plan on getting a Ken-Ton SCSI interface and installing the
hard drive in a tower case, so an embedded controller would be much better.
Thanks.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19347 S1/General Interest
    18-Nov-93  22:41:23
Sb: #19345-#SCSI Drives.
Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142
To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X)

I believe that any of the Seagate N series, such as ST-138N should work for
you. With all best wishes, Brother Jeremy, CSJW

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19349 S1/General Interest
    19-Nov-93  06:03:22
Sb: #19347-#SCSI Drives.
Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514
To: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142 (X)

Do you know if any of the Maxtor drives have embedded SCSI controllers?  The
reason being that Maxtor drives are less expensive, yet still have a good track
record.  Thanks.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 19359 S1/General Interest
    20-Nov-93  09:17:39
Sb: #19349-SCSI Drives.
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X)

Ken,

Its my understanding that almost all, if not all, SCSI drives now have embedded
controllers.

        -Bill-

#: 19360 S1/General Interest
    20-Nov-93  10:23:06
Sb: #19349-#SCSI Drives.
Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555
To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X)

 > Do you know if any of the Maxtor drives have embedded SCSI controllers?
 > The reason being that Maxtor drives are less expensive, yet still have a
 > good track record.  Thanks.

I have two Maxtor 7213S 203Mb hard drives on my MM/1. Note the S suffix on the
model number. That means it is a SCSI drive and not an IDE drive. The SCSI
version of the 7213 costs anywhere from $70 to $100 more than then IDE version.

Oh, and btw, I couldn't be more happier with the Maxtors. No problems
whatsoever with either of them. And man are they small!!

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


There is 1 Reply.

#: 19364 S1/General Interest
    21-Nov-93  06:42:59
Sb: #19360-#SCSI Drives.
Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514
To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X)

That's great.  I'm thinking of getting the 200S model (200 megs).  I was
checking PC Catalog here on CIS (go PCA).  They have that model listed at $189
through a company called CorpSys Center.  Not a bad price.  One thing, what
country makes the Maxtor drive (Japan?).  I need to know so that I can ask
Canada Customs what I'm looking at for duty.  Thanks.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 19365 S1/General Interest
    21-Nov-93  10:37:50
Sb: #19364-#SCSI Drives.
Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555
To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X)

According to the sticker on top of the drive, it is assembled in Singapore.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


There are 2 Replies.

#: 19373 S1/General Interest
    22-Nov-93  03:28:26
Sb: #19365-SCSI Drives.
Fm: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514
To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X)

Thanks for the country information.

#: 19379 S1/General Interest
    23-Nov-93  06:08:52
Sb: #19365-SCSI Drives.
Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41
To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555

Zack,

 > According to the sticker on top of the drive, it is assembled in
 > Singapore.

And if you look on the front of the drive, there is a bar code there with some
coloring on it.  That was made by the company I work for (and the one Steve
USED to work for).


                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

#: 19367 S1/General Interest
    21-Nov-93  17:31:58
Sb: #19364-SCSI Drives.
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Ken Flanagan 75460,2514 (X)

 > That's great.  I'm thinking of getting the 200S model (200 megs).  I was
 > checking PC Catalog here on CIS (go PCA).  They have that model listed at
 > $189 through a company called CorpSys Center.  Not a bad price.  One
 > thing, what country makes the Maxtor drive (Japan?).  I need to know so
 > that I can ask Canada Customs what I'm looking at for duty.  Thanks.

Maxtor has facilities in Colorodo, California and Singapore. All the R&D and
first production runs are done in the States. Then the line is moved to the
Pacific Rim for mass manufacturing.

The company that Mark Griffith works for (and the one I used to work for) is
responsible for those bar code labels on the drives.

*- Steve -*


#: 19348 S1/General Interest
    19-Nov-93  04:29:39
Sb: #hard drive help
Fm: keith bauer 71102,317
To: all

I would like to thank all those that gave me hints & tips about installing my
new Maxtor hard drive. With the help of Gene, Ken, Steve, Bob, and Zack I was
able to install and start the formatting on my lunch hour. It is now up and
running and works great! Once again thanks

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Bauer

 CIS     :71102,317
 Delphi  :keithbauer
 Internet:keithbauer@delphi.com

 Via InfoXpress/OSK ver 1.01                     How 'bout them Cowboys!
 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is 1 Reply.

#: 19351 S1/General Interest
    19-Nov-93  10:44:11
Sb: #19348-hard drive help
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: keith bauer 71102,317 (X)

Glad you're up and running again. Keith!


*- Steve -*


#: 19366 S1/General Interest
    21-Nov-93  13:23:36
Sb: #I'm back again
Fm: Michele Dalene 72652,2765
To: all

HI! Again! I changed my mind and reinstated my CIS account again. Of course due
to the expense of this system, I cannot be on every day but I will be around If
you know me from Delphi (MDALENE@DELPHI.COM) then you know who I am :0
     Anyhow I am back on the CIS system.
                                     Michele Dalene

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19374 S1/General Interest
    22-Nov-93  05:34:35
Sb: #19366-I'm back again
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Michele Dalene 72652,2765

Nice to have you back!


*- Steve -*


#: 19368 S1/General Interest
    21-Nov-93  19:35:00
Sb: ICS Conferences
Fm: Mark A. Wells 71722,1773
To: All

CALL FOR PARTICIPATION - INDUSTRIAL COMPUTING SOCIETY CONFERENCES

The Industrial Computing Society, a not-for profit society dedicated to the
advancement of industrial applications of computers, seeks your participation
in the following upcoming conferences:

        -----------------------
        Philadelphia
        May 3-5, 1994
        ------------------------
        Anaheim, California
        October 24-27, 1994
        ------------------------

Papers presented in Philadelphia are also eligible for presentation in Anaheim.

These conferences are held in cooperation with the Instrument Society of
America (ISA).  Over 25,000 attendees are expected in Philadelphia, with over
435,000 square feet of exhibit space.

Technical papers have currently been received for topics such as:
- Manufacturing Execution
- Plant Operations
- Application Development
- Control Architectures
- Emerging Technologies
- Production Systems Modeling
- Simulation

Some of the types of presentations include:

- Paper Presentation (must be reviewed and ready by Jan. 15, 1994)
- Plenary Session
- Panel
- Tutorials or Clinics
- Workshop
- Technology Briefings
- Roundtable
- Commercial Seminars

You can participate as a:

- Session Developer
- Reviewer
- Author
- Exhibitor

If you would like to be involved or require more information, contact:

Mark Wells
Industrial Computing Society
Conferences and Exhibits Chairman
25 Wood Street, Suite 102
Toronto, Ontario, Canada M4Y 2P9
Phone: (416) 595-0590
Fax: (416) 595-0879
Internet: ics.msystems@control.com
Compuserve: 71722,1773

#: 19375 S1/General Interest
    22-Nov-93  12:08:24
Sb: Database on CDi (OS9)
Fm: anne van der ploeg 100121,3031
To: All

I need to create a database on CDi. I heard about Sculptor and a database
MicroWare developed, which are suitable for CDi.
Is anyone familiair with onbe of these products and can you telle me where I
can contact MicroWare and the makers of Sculptor?

Thanks, Anne 

#: 19343 S3/Languages
    18-Nov-93  20:32:17
Sb: #Ultra ???? C
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: ucc gurus

It's been a tough couple days.  My project is out of ram and rom space, but I
figure a better compiler than v3.2 will bail me out.  That will let me use
'const' to keep the menu trees from getting copied from rom to ram, and better
code generation will free up some rom space.  Easy, huh?  Only problem is, gcc
(while it does generate slightly better code) still puts a vsect around the
menu trees and references them off a6, even when they are made const.  About
this time, the new Ultra C arrived.  I got it loaded and patched cc to ucc and
make to umake so it wouldn't collide with the other guys doing development.
Surely ucc will fix me up.  Nope, ucc  generates considerably larger
executables.  Huh??? Yep, about 15% bigger.  The two I was working with are
about 60K and 80K, so they are mostly mine, but the manual (I had *plenty* of
time to read the manuals - ucc is *slow*) says this can happen with the ansi
libraries, so I tweak the makefile again and use -bc for backwards
compatibility. Still bigger.  But I found that I should use -t=0 to force
optimizaton for minimal space, so torch the .r files and try again.  Still
bigger. The best I could do was 5% bigger.  (I almost couldn't compile a couple
files with big state machine switch tables - took 1.8M of free memory after
compiler et al were loaded).

So here is the question for you ucc experts: what is the secret?  What am I
doing wrong?

Carl

There are 3 Replies.

#: 19350 S3/Languages
    19-Nov-93  10:17:17
Sb: #19343-#Ultra ???? C
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X)

Carl -

Which UCC are you using? Allegedly, the 1.1 (a maint release) is supposed to
enhance both compile speed and optimization. Ours has yet to arrive, allegedly
being shipped with our OS9 3.0...

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19352 S3/Languages
    19-Nov-93  19:17:43
Sb: #19350-#Ultra ???? C
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Using 1.1, the new latest and greatest.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19369 S3/Languages
    21-Nov-93  21:10:58
Sb: #19352-#Ultra ???? C
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X)

Ugh... that's discouraging. Guess that we will _stay_ with the low tech but
well known V1.4 compiler then.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19371 S3/Languages
    21-Nov-93  22:16:08
Sb: #19369-Ultra ???? C
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Or get gcc if you want ANSI.  It uses C3.2 libs and does generate a bit better
code.

#: 19353 S3/Languages
    19-Nov-93  20:04:43
Sb: #19343-#Ultra ???? C
Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641
To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X)

whew!, I thought it was just me!! I was begining to think I'm just a bad 'C'
programmer, well maybe i'm still that!. Anyway YES, I DO get CONSIDERABLY
BIGGER code and a dead-snail's paced compile time and forget about using /r0
for temp files to increase compile time! I downloaded a source on this forum
called 'sc1.c' - scientific calculator which takes 3 minutes to compile on c
3.2 but takes 3 minutes plus a long shower (I could not wait any longer - was
already late for work) for it to tell me that I had ran out of memory - this is
an 80 something 'K' source code. After foregoing '/r0' temp files and unlinking
just about every- thing in memory I finally got it to compile - lets say around
10 minutes or so and about a 15 percent increase in code size. I got so
discouraged that I reinstalled c v3.2. Thank God for the REINSTALL_OLD script
included with Ultra 'C'. I am going to go pick uucc 1.1 next week and I will
see if it improves comp time/code size.

There are 3 Replies.

#: 19354 S3/Languages
    19-Nov-93  20:11:21
Sb: #19353-#Ultra ???? C
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X)

Don't count on it - I'm talking about 1.1 here.  I couldn't use 1.0 because it
had to replace v3.2, but ucc1.1 will co-reside (anyone remember cores from
Mot?) with v3.2.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19357 S3/Languages
    20-Nov-93  00:40:11
Sb: #19354-#Ultra ???? C
Fm: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641
To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X)

Oh well, I setting here listening to by new toy - not a computer, but DMX -
Digital Music Express. Thirty channels of digital music (no commericals or DJs)
ranging from AC to Salsa -what ever that is! Back to OS9 I did try some of the
'time-space knobs', I forgot thr option flags, described in the Manual but did
not find any appreciable code size difference. In fact your code can actually
grow MUCH bigger if you allow maximum loop unrolling. I did a loop (for
(i=0;i<1000;i++) and it unrolled that sucker to nearly 30k or something like
that. Fast, but very big for a 'do' loop that does nothing. I'm definatley NOT
a power user when it comes to 'C', just a novice, so 'C' 3.2 will do me just
fine

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19370 S3/Languages
    21-Nov-93  22:15:11
Sb: #19357-Ultra ???? C
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X)

I hear ya!  In fact I think "power user" has little to to with compiler choice.
3.2 isn't ANSI, which would be nice.  But I know where all the caveats are, and
that is worth a ton when you ship product based on that compiler.  As you saw
in my second message, I fiddled the time-space knobs too.  It appears that ucc
might be ok if it had an 'embedded library' that was lean and mean but had
floating point.  3.2 was smaller but had floats.

#: 19355 S3/Languages
    19-Nov-93  20:11:57
Sb: #19353-Ultra ???? C
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X)

No ucc power users by here yet, huh?

I have some new info to share.  Contrary to what the manual says, apparently
even in backward compatibility mode you still have to tell it to use word
accesses if that is what you want.  That did help reduce the size of the
executables, but they are still larger than those produced by cc and gcc. The
actual code produced for my program is smaller now by about 6%, but when you
link it against the provided libraries, it ends up bigger.  The difference in
my application appears to be around 8K due to the libraries (and I'm using the
backwards compatibility mode to hold it to that much growth).  There is an
option to use the "small" libraries, but they don't do floating point, so I
would have to write a fixed point math library or something.  Oh, and the
programs run when compiled with cc, but crash with divide by zero when compiled
with gcc and with bus error when compiled with ucc.  Most likely by problem,
but a bit dis-heartening.

Carl

#: 19361 S3/Languages
    20-Nov-93  10:40:20
Sb: #19353-Ultra ???? C
Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555
To: SCOTT HOWELL 70270,641 (X)

[Ultra-C Code Size and Compile Time Horror story trimmed]
 > reinstalled c v3.2. Thank God for the REINSTALL_OLD script included with
 > Ultra 'C'. I am going to go pick uucc 1.1 next week and I will see if it
 > improves comp time/code size.

This parallels my experiance with Ultra C V1.0. Unfortunately for me, I
picked up Ultra-C last year on a special deal which Microware was offering.
I paid $499 for it, I understand the regular price is $999. I called my
Microware salesman a few weeks ago and found that a V1.1 upgrade would
cost me $395!!!!! I guess that is a good price if one paid $999 for V1.0,
but it sucks for me to have to pay just $100 less than what I paid for the
original just to get an upgrade. An upgrade which sounds like does not
fix the original problems. That is, consistently larger binaries and
much longer compile times, and for what?

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"

#: 19377 S3/Languages
    22-Nov-93  20:47:20
Sb: #19343-Ultra ???? C
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Carl Kreider 71076,76

I assume that you have reviewed the "ultra c application notes" 02/93 from MW?

#: 19344 S9/Utilities
    18-Nov-93  21:21:34
Sb: #19310-AR
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: Lee Veal 74726,1752

Thanks Lee.  Debi and I are doing well.  She says hi!

#: 19362 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Nov-93  18:01:31
Sb: #19316-Shell+V2.1 fix
Fm: Ron Lammardo 75706,336
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

Bill, Sounds reasonable (waiting a bit). Now to just figure out what would have
to come out! Ron

#: 19363 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    20-Nov-93  18:10:51
Sb: #19317-Shell+V2.1 fix
Fm: Ron Lammardo 75706,336
To: Ian Hodgson 72177,1762 (X)

Ian, Can't recall what he problem was with shell variables being input on the
call line....Sounds like a good idea, and I know we brought it up before, but I
can't remember what the difficulty was. As for rename.....you would need a
rename command that does its own wildcard manipulations as opposed to the shell
processing them.  The shell will expand whatever is passed to it and then pass
along the expanded version to the command which is requested. Not what you need
to do the rename in the fashion that you want. Ron

#: 19322 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    14-Nov-93  08:19:55
Sb: #19319-#Termcap stuff for 6809
Fm: Mark Griffith 76070,41
To: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 (X)

Michele,

 > I am looking for a program that goes with the Mark Griffith C Termcap
 > Librairy called Setterm which configures the /dd/sys/ttype file have you
 > seen this program around?

Gee...it's been so long since I worked on a CoCo that I can't even remember if
something like this exists here.  Maybe Steve Wegert can look for you.

 > I also am looking for a copy of SLED (NOT SCRED!!!!) that is compiled
 > for Termcaps?

The ORIGINAL version used CoCo screen control codes to work.  I don't think
there was ever a termcap version done.  I hacked it up and released it to use
the Level II windows codes and cleaned it up a bit to get it to work better
than before.  It still has bugs, but not nearly as many as when I first got it
(grin).

                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19325 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    14-Nov-93  21:12:38
Sb: #19322-Termcap stuff for 6809
Fm: Michele Dalene 72652,2765
To: Mark Griffith 76070,41 (X)

Hmm. Thats ironic as when I looked at it. it HAD a termcap option. Or was that
something else....? I could have been the Coco version of Emacs I am talking
of, the Original Version not the Philip Brown modification of the GNU Emacs.
but still I want a text edtior that is full screen, that will work on a
terminal. May it be my vt52 or my Vt100 or a Vt220 or a Coco3 or a ADM. If Rick
Adams was able to modify VI I would have been alset but he told me that he did
not have the time for such a project
                                  Michele Dalene

#: 19323 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    14-Nov-93  11:42:11
Sb: #19319-#Termcap stuff for 6809
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Michele Dalene 72652,2765 (X)

Michele,

I have a ttyset utility, that will t(set the terminal type on a port, based on
the device name. But I'm not sure of where it came from, I think from Carl
Kreider's mtsmon for OS9, which, as far as I know, was never released for the
CoCo because the stock ACIAPAK driver didn't support the required system calls.

I've only used the earlier versions of Sled, I don't know anything about a
termcap xDversion. The same goes for dEd, I don't know of a termcap version,
although that doesn't mean there isn't one!

Named pipes were in the upgrade, I've never heard of any other attempt to write
named pipes for LII.

        -Bill-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19326 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    14-Nov-93  21:18:09
Sb: #19323-Termcap stuff for 6809
Fm: Michele Dalene 72652,2765
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

AH! thats what I was Lookng For :) Could you post that here in theDB? As for
MTsmon. I use SACIA. could you get permission from the author for that too?
                                       Michele Dalene P.S a Delphite is
planning to use Termcap for A coco Program Eons after I requested that new
programmers use the standard. Better late than never!
     P.S how do you parse a Termcap file from Basic09? I figured you need an
Arraw. but how do your Decode theh "C" type text entries in the termcap file in
my /dd/sys dir so that basic09 could make use of them directly/
        I mean if I read the data into an array and passed the address and size
of the arraw to a GFX system that used the termcap. How would I write this GFX
system? Being I am busy at class and my brain is tied up on Psychology right
now, I don't have the patience or the motivation to recreate the wheel.
Obviously of GFX and GFX"

oops GFX3 does this somehow. and since it is a data module it needs to get its
stack and buffers from b09 that only makes me wonder of how I could write such
a monster parser. any help?

#: 19372 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    21-Nov-93  23:06:09
Sb: #19052-#Review: 340 Upgrade
Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766
To: Zack Sessions 71532,1555 (X)

Well, I got my 68340 upgrade board two weeks ago, made the new boot disk, no
problem doing the boot disk...    Then I oppend up the MM1, removed the 68070
chip, the roms, replaced the pall chips with the faster chips supplied,  pluged
in the 68340 upgrade board, set the wait state pins, replaced the I/O board,
and powerd up the MM1, and got exactly NOTHING, the MM1 was dead...   No screen
no drive lights, Nothing!   So I reinstalled the old  CPU (68070) and the old
ROMS, but left in the new palls, reset the wait state, reassembled the whole
thing and powered up the MM/1 again, wholla it booted up No problem...

So I reinstalled the 68340 board and ROMM's again, and still NOTHING!  On
axamining the 68070 socked where the new board plugs in, and it looks like the
traces of the plug on the 68340 board plug dont meet the contact of the socked,
the traces are a little recessed a little in plastic fins, and cant make
contact with the new board...

The old 68070 chip's contacts are curled and stand of the ship a little, and
they go in the the recessed fins to make contact in the socket's contacts, the
contacts on the 68340 board's plug must also stand off about 2 milimeters to
make cantact with the sockets contacts...

But the board I got had contats on the boards plug that where imbetted flush,
and could not make the required contact for proper operation...

BlackHawk Enterprises is sending me a new 68340 board, hope that will plug in
proper...

G'Day!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 19376 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Nov-93  19:01:08
Sb: #19372-Review: 340 Upgrade
Fm: Zack Sessions 71532,1555
To: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766

 > Well, I got my 68340 upgrade board two weeks ago, made the new boot disk,

 > the MM1 was dead...   No screen no drive lights, Nothing!   So I

First off, let me make sure you are aware that I am not an official
representative of Blackhawk Enterprises, I am a customer like you.

 > But the board I got had contats on the boards plug that where imbetted
 > flush, and could not make the required contact for proper operation...

Kevin Pease installed my board. He did a "destructive" upgrade to the socket
the '070 had been in. It has little plastic standoffs mounted inside it so the
'070's contacts will make contact with the socket. But the "plug" for the '340
accel board HAS to go ALL the way down! So he clipped out the stanoffs so the
accel board would go all the way down. Pease said that if I ever wanted to go
back to the '070, I'd have to mount some kind of standoffs in there. But, mine
is working OK and there ain't no reason why I'd want to go back to the '070!!!

 > BlackHawk Enterprises is sending me a new 68340 board, hope that will plug
 > in proper...

Good luck with your system. If all else fails, give Pease a call. His number is
(615) 758-9787 at home.

------------------------------------
 Zack C Sessions
 ColorSystems

 "I am Homer of Borg, prepare to be assimi ... OOOOHHH, DOUGHNUTS!"


#: 19327 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    14-Nov-93  21:55:37
Sb: #19221-MM1-68340
Fm: Dieter G. Rossmann 70314,1766
To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X)

Thanks for the info, it will come in handy, then I just got my own 68340
Accelerator upgrade, board, three chips and a floppy disk with a bunch of
software, already made the floppy boot disk for the 68340 accelerator, just
have to get the time and currage to the the hardware haking...    Will report
the progress I make in the future...

G'Day!
              Dieter

#: 19324 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    14-Nov-93  14:47:19
Sb: #OS9, 3.0
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: All

I thought some of you might be interested in this press release I found in
'Electronic Design', Oct 4/93....

Taking aim at hyper-embedded, hard real-time applications, version 3.0 of the
Microware's OS-9 operating system has a preemptible kernel, faster interrupt
response and context switching, and more efficient interprocess communication
mechanisms. The OS upgrade also has improved determinism, enhanced
memory-management facilities, and greater overall system call throughput.

For resource-limited embedded applications, Microware has the Atomic OS-9
runtime microkernel, 20% smaller and 15% faster than the standard v3.0 kernel,
yet upwardly compatible. The microkernel has a subset of the functions in the
OS-9 v.3 kernel, excluding development and debugging support...

Version 3.0 supports system-state preemption...

Microware to improve determinism [sic] has added system-state preemption to the
OS core I/O file managers. It also has a new "buddy" memory allocator,
assigning memory on a more predictable block size basis rather than on a
"first-fit" basis.

The v3.0 kernel's fast IRQ system call (F$FIRQ) .... cut the interrupt latency
in half--to 3.0us--by preforming partial register save...

[pricing info follows]...


There is 1 Reply.

#: 19356 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    19-Nov-93  22:29:39
Sb: #19324-OS9, 3.0
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,

From past experence I would avoid versions of OS9 that end with a '0'... <g> or
rather... <grimace>

Frank

#: 19338 S15/Hot Topics
    17-Nov-93  14:37:35
Sb: New life for the MM/1
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: All

Scarffed recently from the CoCo LIST at pucc.princeton.edu ...



Reply-To: "David M. Graham" <NIMITZ%DELPHI.COM@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu> Sender: COCO -
Tandy Color Computer List <COCO%PUCC.bitnet@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu> From: "David M.
Graham" <NIMITZ%DELPHI.COM@WUVMD.Wustl.Edu> Subject:      MM/1 X-To:
coco@pucc.princeton.edu To: Multiple recipients of list COCO <COCO@PUCC.BITNET>
Status: RO

Well, don't look now, BUT the MM/1 is BACK!   As the saying goes, I liked my
MM/1 SO MUCH,  I bought the company!!!  ;)     Not really, but BlackHawk
Enterprises, Inc. has purchased the rights to produce the MM/1, pending
financing, and if I receive enough purchase requests, I WILL have the MM/1 back
in production by NLT  February 28, 1994.    So, get those cards and letters
coming, and thanks for your support!!!



                 David M. Graham
                 BlackHawk Enterprises
                 nimitz@delphi.com


Press <CR> !>