read new nonstop follow
87223 8-MAY 14:55  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87220)
     From: DBREEDING    To: COLORSYSTEMS

 > > RE: "the overwhelming majority of people who want some kind of gun
 > > control" WHERE ARE THEY?  Everywhere I go, here, on our local netted
 > bbs, > etc. the overwhelming majority I hear is AGAINST!
 >
 > You really need to get "out" more. According to national public opinion
 > polls, a majority of Americans favor handgun control. Even more than that
 > favor some kind of gun control legislation, such as the ban on assault
 > weapons.

Maybe I don't get "out" enough.  However, look at this forum.  So far, we
have had what 4-5 people who don't like the way it is going and 1 who likes
it?  What are we, a bunch of wild-eyed radical lunatics?  No, we are more
interested in computers than politics.  On my local bbs, which is
netted all across the country, the ratio is quite similar.  I didn't join the
BBS looking for people with my views, and I -DEFINITELY- am not here to
discuss politics, but it's here.  I say this to make it evident that I do not
pick my crowd just to prove my point.  RE: polls, I
don't put much stock in them.  IMO, most polls are taken with the intent to
prove a point one way or the other.

 > > 3) the attorney general shall have the authority to add any weapon to
 > the > list that he/she/it deems necessary (without consulting with
 > anyone).
 > And I really doubt the validity of that claim as well.

I believe that a clause like this has been in almost every package of this
kind.

 > "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
 > we borrowed it from our descendants."           Ancient proverb

I'm afraid that if we sit on our duffs, our descendants will have a very
poor life.  The issue is not just whether a person can carry a gun or not.
This is just one step toward a condition that looks very bleak to me.  If
you will, just look at the entire issue from an objective view.  Look at
-ALL- the developments, and especially ask yourself if you really think
the methods of attack that the government is taking will help one bit.

                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

87224 8-MAY 14:56  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87221)
     From: DBREEDING    To: COLORSYSTEMS

 > And I do not. Congress does not have the right to pass any law which
 > supercedes a Constitutional Amendment. If the Second Amendment is ever
 > repealed outright, it will be by the People, not Congress.

What difference does it make whether it is repealed or if you just can't
utilize it.  What value would the Second Amendment be if you still have
the right to own a gun but just don't happen to be allowed to own any
particular kind in existence?  Same difference.


                   -- David Breeding --
                 CompuServe :  72330,2051
                     Delphi :  DBREEDING

         ***  Sent via CoCo-InfoXpress V1.01 ***
                       ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^

-*-

87226 8-MAY 18:01  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87222)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: MITHELEN

 > RE: Handgun oger 50oz being illegal.
 >
 > This would make many high quality target pistols illegal. The whole ide
 > of gun control is a joke... It takes guns outa the hands of law abideing
 > citizens. It has no effect on criminals. They will still get "illegal"
 > guns/ weapons, by the same illegal means that they usually use.

While it is very true that no gun control law will prevent the hardened
criminal from getting guns, that is not the purpose of gun control laws.

And gun control does not take legitimate guns out of the hands of legitimate
owners. A target pistol, high quality or low quality, that weighs that
much could very well be abused. Good enough reason for me. It does not take
a huge weapon to put holes in a piece of paper.


 ------------------------------------
  Zack C Sessions

  "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
     we borrowed it from our descendants."           Ancient proverb


-*-

87227 8-MAY 18:01  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87223)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DBREEDING (NR)

 > Maybe I don't get "out" enough.  However, look at this forum.  So far, we
 > have had what 4-5 people who don't like the way it is going and 1 who
 > likes it?  What are we, a bunch of wild-eyed radical lunatics?  No, we are
 > more interested in computers than politics.  On my local bbs, which is
 > netted all across the country, the ratio is quite similar.  I didn't join
 > the BBS looking for people with my views, and I -DEFINITELY- am not here
 > to discuss politics, but it's here.  I say this to make it evident that I
 > do not pick my crowd just to prove my point.  RE: polls, I
 > don't put much stock in them.  IMO, most polls are taken with the intent
 > to prove a point one way or the other.

Just because you think differently than I on the gun control issue does not
mean in any way that I think that you or anyone who agrees with you is a
wild-eyed radical lunatic.

And just because Delphi OS9 forum and contributors to your local BBS, local
or whatever, seem to agree with you means nothing as far as nationwide
public opinion is concerned. My local BBS is just like  yours, with
most contributors expressing anti-gun control sentiment. Still, it appears
to me that anti-gun control advocates are more vocal in these electronic
discussion forums.

And while I do not consider public opinion polls as the "gospel", they
have usually held true to the point in question. And they have been asking
the questions concerning gun control issues for years not, and there is
a definite trend towards more gun control.


 > > > 3) the attorney general shall have the authority to add any weapon
 > to > the > list that he/she/it deems necessary (without consulting with
 > > anyone).
 > > And I really doubt the validity of that claim as well.
 >
 > I believe that a clause like this has been in almost every package of
 > this kind.

OK, prove it.

 > > "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
 > > we borrowed it from our descendants."           Ancient proverb
 >
 > I'm afraid that if we sit on our duffs, our descendants will have a very
 > poor life.  The issue is not just whether a person can carry a gun or
 > not. This is just one step toward a condition that looks very bleak to me.
 >  If you will, just look at the entire issue from an objective view.  Look
 > at -ALL- the developments, and especially ask yourself if you really
 > think the methods of attack that the government is taking will help one
 > bit.

I do not think that whether one is armed or not has anything to do with the
person's "quality of life". The proverb has NOTHING to do with gun control
but with the environment, and activities of our government, guided by
the various environmental groups HAVE made improvements. Be glad to
document some of them, if you wish.


 ------------------------------------
  Zack C Sessions

  "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
     we borrowed it from our descendants."           Ancient proverb


-*-

87228 8-MAY 18:01  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87224)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: DBREEDING (NR)

 > What difference does it make whether it is repealed or if you just can't
 > utilize it.  What value would the Second Amendment be if you still have
 > the right to own a gun but just don't happen to be allowed to own any
 > particular kind in existence?  Same difference.

There is absolutely no way anyone can justify the recreational ownership
of assault weapons, period.


 ------------------------------------
  Zack C Sessions

  "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
     we borrowed it from our descendants."           Ancient proverb


-*-

87230 8-MAY 19:27  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87228)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: COLORSYSTEMS

There are those that say an AK-47 is not needed for any reason by a
private citizen, that the gun itself is too powerfull. This makes me
wonder:

A) How many 'system crackers' need to break into military computer systems
   or crash certain government computers, before the govt. decides that
   computers are to dangerous for us to have, and outlaw PC's? We would
   all say "Go after the crackers, not our computers". Does that sound
   familar?

B) People should not need a reason for having or wanted any item, if
   I want a Cray supercomputer, and have the money, should I need a
   reason for why I want it? It shouldnt matter that I could never
   use its full power, or that someone says that I dont need that much
   power.


I personally have no interest in guns myself, but those that do should
have the right to own any kind they please. Stores do instant credit
checking on our Visa's and Mastercards, they could do it on our criminal
records and such as well. The technology is available, lets use it.

As for keeping a gun out of the hands of a "well-behaved" citizen that
woke up one morning and snapped, set up a 10-20 day waiting period, or
whatever on handguns, and so-called "assault weapons". Banning guns that
can hold more than 5 rounds, and calling them assault weapons is silly
because a gun could be MADE to hold 4 rounds in the magazine, but the
magazine could be modified to hold more than that, it would probably
just "stick out of the handle" a little bit. That action of all semi-
automatic guns are basically the same in principle (I believe, someone
will have to back me up on that) the guns physical styling and looks
have no bearing on its power, but they LOOK scary, so they got banned.
I am sure there are semi-automatic hunting rifles that are more powerful
than an AK-47, but the AK has a higher capacity "clip". All one would
need to do is make or aquire a higher capacity magazine, and that rifle
would be more deadly than an AK, so the concept of assault weapons and
legitimate weapons is really a non-issue. What really needs to be
done, rather than banning the guns, is to really get the criminals, yes
the police are out-gunned and out-manned.. so, give the police more money
and more men to do their job, while it is unrealistic for a cop to walk
down the street with a large-scale semi-automatic weapon, the standard
pump-action shot gun in the police car could be replaced with a "better"
weapon.

While I agree something needs to be done about crime, getting rid of
guns isnt the ansewer. In fact, I cant really say for sure that I know the
ansewer, but for that matter.. nobody in Washington has had the right
ansewer in the last 100 years so.. why start now?


-*-

87232 8-MAY 19:38  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87226)
     From: MITHELEN     To: COLORSYSTEMS

But, weight of a gun has no relation to the power of the gun... Most target
pistols use very small caliber ammo, and also, low power loads. The weight adds
stability to the gun. I've hefted 22 cal. target rifles that weighed ove
30 lbs.

The "problem" is, there is very little firearms education. Just like Drugs, or
Sex, people should receive proper education about firearms when they are
young.

I can't wait til BB guns, and dart pistols get included some day as weapons
that must be controlled...
--
Paul

-*-

87235 8-MAY 21:03  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87220)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: COLORSYSTEMS

Like you Zaxk, I don't think the "handguns over 50oz" clause will be a problem!
There aren't ANY that I know of that would be reasonably considered "personal
defense" weapons! The ONLY ones I can think of right off are the large capacity
"Uzi" type weapons.

-*-

87236 8-MAY 21:06  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87226)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack, the reason for the weight of target pistols is that the weight makes them
steadier for aiming. The size of these items and low capacity (many are single
shot, especially the larger ones) should preclude them from the law. They
aren't easily carried a
nyway!

-*-

87237 8-MAY 21:40  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87230)
     From: JRUPPEL      To: ILLUSIONIST

I've followed this most of the way through, and I'm afraid that the parallel
between the computer and the AK47 just isn't valid. I'm not sure about your
system, but mine will not accept a bayonnet, or a multi-round clip, and as
far as I know, I can't plug someone 12 times before they hit the ground with
my Coco-even if it is a 2-meg!
I feel that some of us out here are at a disadvantage...I own no weapons, other
than a fishing rod, and I feel that anyone who wants to possess an assault
weapon is looking for bigger game than I've ever heard a liscense issued
for...Man.
Just the other night on a radio talk show, someone mentioned that they saw no
problem with assault weapons as long as they were used for what they were
supposed to be used for. What a chilling thought. Those weapons are designed to
kill
PEOPLE, not big game or paper targets. Let's get real here.
John Ruppel

-*-

87239 8-MAY 23:33  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87237)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JRUPPEL

One of my friends owns a high powered snipers rifle (the kind that you see
in moview, that breaks down in to a bunch of small peices, and fits in
a little case) Certainly this type of firearm has no praticle use for
the recreational user, it is the type of firearms one would use if they
were in the business of contract killing, or wanted to assinate someone.
But, infact, he does use it for recreation. He says it is idea for hunting.
Compact, light weight, easy to take care of. and very accurate. I don't
know if this type of firearm is included in the current legisation, but
it would be only a matter of time. The point is, once the government is
allowed to start restricting something, then it is just a matter of time
til it decides that it will just do 100% restriction. If the government is
really concerned about crime, then they should concentrte on better enforcement,

and stiffer penalties. Criminals will always find alternate tools to do
the crimes if the "usual" ones arn't available (which, no mater what type
of gun control is in effect, criminales will still be able to get their
tools of choice)
--
Paul

-*-

87240 9-MAY 00:08  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87239)
     From: ISC          To: MITHELEN

Paul,

I hesitate to jump in here, but...you "better enforcement and stiffer
penalties" people are just as wrongheaded as the "ban anything that might
be construed as a weapon" people.  Each of those approaches only swell
the prison populations which, because the prisons are the best training
grounds for career criminals, makes the crime problem that much more
difficult to deal with.  In addition, the spawning of ever growing police
powers and agencies means that more and more of the population becomes
dependant on the police agencies for their livelihoods and careers.
Unless the underlying social problems are dealt with, no amount of gun or
weapon control, no amount of punishing deterrence will be effective beyond
a small blip in the statistics.  I am old enough to remember the death
penalty.  It was common around the United States then.  It didn't deter
anyone who had the urge to murder, it only made enforcement harder because
then the perp had the motivation to hide the deed well or frame someone
else.

Thomas Jefferson knew why the Feds should not have the power of life and
death.  The botching of the investigation of John Kennedy's murder is all
the example anyone needs for that point to be illustrated.

Let's address why there are homeless in the streets, and why people are
so desparate as to turn to crime and why the various kinds of family
abuse causes the monster personalities.  If these things are not done,
we will all live in a police state during the 21st century guaranteed.

Bill

-*-

87241 9-MAY 00:46  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87237)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: JRUPPEL

No, a computer wont kill a person (though my parents think I will get
electrocuted :) ) however, both the computer and the gun are tools...
banning a tool will not stop the crime be it hacking or murder from being
commited.. hackers that want classified info and get paid for it, will
buy their systems blackmarket or buy the parts to make one.. murders will
just modify their guns, use a bigger clip or whatever, to accomplish what
they already do... murder. That is of course, if they actually buy their
guns from a store.. I will bet my money that they get them from the blackmarket
not Bob's Gun Shop.... the damage that the tool has the possibilty of doing
does not warrant it being banned.. computers should be banned because of
hackers.. and guns shouldnt be banned because of killers....we have no
reason to fear the tools.. just the people behind them. We dont mind
the police and military having assault weapons, they are the "good" guys.
Well guess what, anyone that doesnt run into a McDonalds and shoot people
is a good guy, and they should be allowed to have the gun they want.
Convict the damn guy that went into the MDonalds..and keep him there



-*-

87242 9-MAY 00:48  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87232)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: MITHELEN

I bet you are right, BB and dart pistols will probably be banned one day
lesse what would be the excuse then? "You'l shoot your eye out!!"

hmmmm....

-*-

87245 9-MAY 03:26  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87228)
     From: PAGAN        To: COLORSYSTEMS


 >There is absolutely no way anyone can justify the recreational ownership of
 >assault weapons, period.

 Reckon that depends on what you define as an assault weapon.  Used to mean
 weapons that would actually be used in a military operation.  Now it means
 any weapon that _looks_ like one that would be used in a military oper-
 ation.  Ever wonder what's next?

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

87246 9-MAY 03:27  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87226)
     From: PAGAN        To: COLORSYSTEMS


 >While it is very true that no gun control law will prevent the hardened
 >criminal from getting guns, that is not the purpose of gun control laws.

 You better believe it.  The purpose of every gun control law since 1963 has
 been to make it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms.

 >And gun control does not take legitimate guns out of the hands of legitimate
 >owners. A target pistol, high quality or low quality, that weighs that much
 >could very well be abused. Good enough reason for me. It does not take a
 >huge weapon to put holes in a piece of paper.

 The Ruger Mark II target pistol weighs 44 ozs empty.  Add some better sights
 and a weight or muzzle brake to control rise and it could easily top that 50
 oz mark.  Of course being a .22 LR caliber it's probably used in drivebys
 and holdups all the time.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

87247 9-MAY 03:28  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87220)
     From: PAGAN        To: COLORSYSTEMS

 >You really need to get "out" more. According to national public opinion
 >polls, a majority of Americans favor handgun control. Even more than that
 >favor some kind of gun control legislation, such as the ban on assault
 >weapons.

 So what?

 The purpose of the Bill of Rights is to keep all those well meaning
 majorities from stomping all over the right of minorities.

 Remember Brown vs. Board of Education?  For years, democratically elected
 legislatures had mandated "separate but equal" schools.  That didn't make it
 right.  Public opinion polls in 1942 supported the incarceration of American
 citizen whose only "crime" was having Japanese ancestors.  That sure as hell
 didn't make it right.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

87248 9-MAY 03:28  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87215)
     From: PAGAN        To: DBREEDING (NR)

 I've been checking the "NEW-TODAY" file at whitehouse.gov every night since
 the bill was passed for some more "official" information about the new ban.
 I figured Uncle Billy would be crowing about his victory over that nasty NRA
 and their sympathizers and fellow travellers but nary a word yet.  Rest
 assured, I'll post anything interesting.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

87249 9-MAY 17:34  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87247)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: PAGAN

Very well said.. I think that people are starting to believe that just
because the govt. says something is right, or the majority of people out
there say something is right, that automatically makes it right for every
person in america...its about time people start opening their minds to
what is actually going on.. some people will call me paranoid, for worring
about gun control (esp. when I, nor anyone I know uses guns), or how I
worry about the Clipper chip.. etc.. but then there are those that say
that paranoia is just another name for heightened awareness..

                                       -* Mike

-*-

87253 9-MAY 20:00  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87227)
     From: JOHNREED     To: COLORSYSTEMS

Zack,
        The "anti-gun-control" types are indeed more vocal.
Perhaps the reason is that some of them (like me) don't
even own a gun.  We are not responding so much to gun
control but to something much more important - another
notch out of the Bill of Rights.

Geeez, we're doing it again - cluttering up the OS9
forum with politics.  I'll quit now.

           ********************************
 "Don't take life too serious - it ain't nohow permanent"
                                        (Pogo)

 John R. Wainwright <<CIS -- 72517,676>> <<DELPHI -- JOHNREED>>

-*-

87254 9-MAY 20:15  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87249)
     From: COLORSYSTEMS To: ILLUSIONIST

 > Very well said.. I think that people are starting to believe that just
 > because the govt. says something is right, or the majority of people out
 > there say something is right, that automatically makes it right for every
 > person in america...


And just because 3 million card carrying members of the NRA says something
is right doesn't necessarily mean it is right, either.


 ------------------------------------
  Zack C Sessions

  "We did not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors,
     we borrowed it from our descendants."           Ancient proverb


-*-

87266 10-MAY 16:53 OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87254)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: COLORSYSTEMS

Exactly, of course, I never did bring up the NRA, did I? But, yes.. just
because they say something is right, that doenst make it so either.

I suppose that what it boils down to, in my opinion, and that is all any
of this is, opinion, is that personal freedoms, should never, under
any circumstances, be trampled.. I can see the logic in supporting
gun control, but I dont agree..

I am going to shut my mouth now, since this is the OS-9 forum, and
not a polictical sig.

                                          -* Mike

-*-

87269 10-MAY 20:01 OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87239)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MITHELEN

Of course your friends break-down rifle has legitimate sporting reasons! It
would DEFINATELY be easy t ocarry on a long trip, especially if the trip
was conducted through the air (easy in the baggage department). However, since
I'm in the military and know how to handle an M-16, I can agree with you that
assault rifles ARE designed to kill people and are generally of little use
to a hunter. They are to short and don't have the stopping power required
for big game at reasonable ranges, especially the newer small caliber
weapons. The hunting rifles I have are much better for long range. If I
intended to murder someone (for the sake of argument), I wouldn't use an
assault type weapon. I'd most likely use a .22LR rifle at 50 yards or so.
It is effective (well, 2-3 rounds anyway), and nearly untraceable. There are
more .22s in this country than any other caliber. Pick up a cheap one at
a pawn shop in some remote area, preferably anopther state, wait at least a
month,
then shoot the fellow and ditch the rifle. No assault weapon involved. Most
people who buy assault weapons do so for collector purposes or simply "show-off"

purposes. Very few people buy a weapon of any type with the intent to go out
and shoot someone. And most of those are law enforcement people or criminals.
I don't disagree with making a firearm not so easy to get (not necessarily
difficult though) so that people who are unstable or have criminal records, and
juveniles, can easily get them.
 One can now legally own a true machine gun with a class V dealer license, and
they must register the weapon with local law enforcement personel. Licensing
assault weapons would be more effective than banning altogether. The ban will
leave those who really want them most (criminal types) with having them.
For personal defense, I might add, an assault weapon does make some sense.
They are designed to be manuevered in close quarters. And six shots may not be
enough. We are taught to "double tap" (two shots) anyone we shoot. That means
three people if all shots hit.. something not likely in a panic situation.
Education is the real answer. You need to have at least a basic course in gun
safety, even if lecture only, before being allowed to purchase a gun. In
some states, such a course is necessary before a hunting license is issued.
It would be a simple matter to require a hunting license before gun ownership
is allowed. The "hunters safety course" only has to be taken once and a card is
issued. Simply show it at the counter before purchase...

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87225 8-MAY 16:41  Applications (6809)
     RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87119)
     From: CHYDE        To: JEJONES

Actually if the users are only accessing the DB for reads then no special
work is needed, since the OS takes care of those things.  The problem
arises when you have multiple people wanting to write to the DB.  There
are several ways to deal with this, the easiest of which is to only allow
one person to open the file for read/write at a time.  This can also be
mostly handled by the OS (if I remember right) with only a little additional
programming.

        Chris

-*-

87263 10-MAY 05:56 Applications (6809)
     RE: Home manager (Re: Msg 87225)
     From: PAGAN        To: CHYDE (NR)

 >Actually if the users are only accessing the DB for reads then no special
 >work is needed, since the OS takes care of those things.  The problem arises
 >when you have multiple people wanting to write to the DB.  There are several
 >ways to deal with this, the easiest of which is to only allow one person to
 >open the file for read/write at a time.  This can also be mostly handled by
 >the OS (if I remember right) with only a little additional programming.

 You can lock out a section of a file with the SS_Lock SetStat or the
 _ss_lock() function in C if your working in OSK.  This will lock out the
 section of a file from the current file pointer up to the number of bytes
 requested.  You can't use buffered calls for this but setting up your own
 buffering isn't that hard and is usually faster than the buffered C calls
 anyway.

 Be careful as two users trying to access the same record can create a
 deadlock.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87229 8-MAY 19:05  General Information
     hi!
     From: JOSEPHCHEEK  To: ALL

is it hot in here?  hi, i just wanted to
introduce myself and say 'hi'..
if anyone needs me, i'll be in the
gun control forum asking
what is a good os9 computer to buy.
thanks!

-*-

87231 8-MAY 19:30  General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87229)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: JOSEPHCHEEK (NR)

:) That is a good one. If you are serious about buying an OS-9 computer..
a CoCo 3 with a hard drive makes a nice little system.. for a more modern
faster computer a Delmar System 5, KIX/30 (by FHL), or an MM/1 (now sold
by BlackHawk) are all good choices, I myself lean toward the Delmar..
because it uses a PC-style bus and the cards for it are pretty cheap..
Although, from what I have seen, more graphical-based PD apps exist
for the MM/1 than the others..

                                         -* Mike

-*-

87243 9-MAY 01:00  General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87231)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: ILLUSIONIST

  BTW: How much is a Delmar system??  System,, as in Computer, keyboard,
 w/memory, & at least one floppy, & ports to printer mouse,, etc.


 Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87244 9-MAY 03:26  General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87229)
     From: PAGAN        To: JOSEPHCHEEK (NR)

 >is it hot in here?  hi, i just wanted to introduce myself and say 'hi'..  if
 >anyone needs me, i'll be in the gun control forum asking what is a good os9
 >computer to buy.  thanks!

 This ain't the gun control forum!  Just happens that most OS9er's believe in
 the idea of individual rights.  Add such anti social notions to the kind of
 intelligence they have already demonstrated (by choosing OS9 :-) and you
 have a bunch of politically incorrect "anarchists" who just don't take too
 kindly to having their rights trampled.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

87250 9-MAY 17:37  General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87243)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: MRUPGRADE

From my memory, a terminal based system is around $1000 ..I am not sure
about a console-based system (that can do graphics and such)

                                           -* Mike

-*-

87256 9-MAY 22:50  General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87250)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: ILLUSIONIST

  Terminal  VS consol based ??
  I's hate to pay a thou,, for half a computer.   I'm talking at least
 a full capability computer.  Despite limited support,, I'd want to be able
 to do at least what a CoCo would.
   c delph
Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

87267 10-MAY 17:03 General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87256)
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: MRUPGRADE

well, I suppose its like this.. a CoCo, out of the box will only be
able to play little game cartridges.. you buy a CoCo, play a few games
when ya get the money, you can buy disk drives.. get some more spending
money, by an RGB monitor.. then maybe a multipak..after a slow, but
steady climb, you will have a "full computer".. and now that you have
the hardware.. maybe you will buy OS-9, or maybe get 512k first..its all
a personal decision.. the same thing goes with the Delmar..

only thing is, rather than get just the motherboard at first and playing
games, you get the motherboard, floppies, and (i believe 4) serial
ports... for $1000.. then when you get some extra money you buy a
monitor, VGA card, and keyboard.. there, now you have graphics.. oh
and you can throw a mouse on too.. down the line a little ways you
complete the software buy getting Gwindows.. there ya go.. there is the
basic hardware stuff down.. now, maybe add a few extras.. more memory
maybe an ALT-86 board (to run DOS apps) ....ect.. buying a delmar
(or KIX/30) is similar to buying a coco, in that it too allows you to
slowly upgrade.... I myself dont have a delmar.. but when (if) I get
an OSk machine, I know it will be a delmar.. right now, I dont need OSk
I have level 2 on the CoCo, and 2 different flavors of UNIX on my
PC's ....I actually might skip OSk and go right to OS-9000.. but that
depends on how the OS-9000 scene looks when I have the money..

                                                      -* Mike

-*-

87271 10-MAY 20:12 General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87267)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: MRUPGRADE

The monitor and card for a Delmar system would add $300-$500, depending on the
quality of the monitor. A card is under $100, 640x480 VGA monitors can
be found for around $200, higher resolution would cost more.

-*-

87278 10-MAY 22:00 General Information
     RE: hi! (Re: Msg 87267)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)

 I gues my point is: when I buy a computer these days, I expect to start
 with: The main computer & keyboard  (I don't know what I'd do with one
 that didn't have theh key baord with??) with at l4east one 3 & 1/2" drive,,
 and ports (without need of card) foro modem, rpinter, monitor (usually
 two types), a beginning memory of a meg or better, and a system DOS,,
 8be it (MSDOS/ Workbencjh/ or OS) plus a basic to fit the machine.

  that is theh starting point of nay computer I've heard of.  Except FHL,,
 who sells the pieces.  But until these are together,, a comparible computer
 to me it ain't.
  Hard dirves,, extra mem, monitors,, like printers,, are parriffials to
the discression of the user.
  I was just asking,, to get an idea,, how this (complete startup) computer
 would compare with others on the market.  ??
  Til then,,, Terry Simons

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87233 8-MAY 19:58  General Information
     2 B&B interfaces at the same time
     From: STEWARD      To: ALL

  I need help.  I've got 2 B&B xt interfaces, and I'm trying to use them at the
same time.  I have done this before when setting up someones system and backing
up my stuff to thiers.  But this time I'm not having any luck.
  I think it might be the xt interface.  In the past, they've been the 1988
models with the 2 74f00 chips.  This time, 1 of them is an older one with 1
74ls00 ic.
  Am I having an addressing conflict between?  Is there a file that will tell
me how to modify the old one to a newer one?
  Thanx in advance.


-*-

87234 8-MAY 20:53  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87170)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: CHARLESAM

When you renew at the fest I'll let you have a replacement #4 for half price..
$2.00. There isn't an organized breakfast at the fest, but the hotel has
aood restaurant and breakfast buffet!

-*-

87238 8-MAY 23:10  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Windows (Re: Msg 87234)
     From: CHARLESAM    To: DSRTFOX

Thanx for the break on the mag#4. I'm glad we won't have to go far for chow.
If I can't get a cup of coffee first thing, I just ain't human. As a matter
of record, I don't travel without a coffee pot if I can help it. I'm really
looking forward to this, it will probably be my last chance at a Fest. See
you there Frank. Charlie

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87251 9-MAY 18:14  OSK Applications
     PGP for OSK?
     From: KSCALES      To: ALL

Lessee...

  > Topic:   OSK Applications
  > Subject: PGP for OSK?

Can you guys find a more appropriate area for these discussions?

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237
 =-=-=-=-=-= Intel: Putting the backward in backward compatible =-=-=-=-=-=

-*-

87257 9-MAY 23:17  OSK Applications
     RE: PGP for OSK? (Re: Msg 87251)
     From: DSPICER      To: KSCALES

KSCALES> Can you guys find a more appropriate area for these discussions?

 I'll second this motion!

   Message Composed at 22:13:16 on 05/09/94.
   Access CoCo of L.A. (Lower Alabama)   (205)598-2100

* ODN Ver 1.00 - Delphi Navigator for OS/2 *

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87252 9-MAY 18:44  General Information
     WD 1002-05
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: ALL

Doesn anyone know where I can get a WD 1002-05 controller for use with
the Eliminator? I have looked around and cant seem to find one. I was
hoping someone would know of a used computer-parts place where I might
be able to get one. Thanks..


                                        -* Mike

PS. if someone out there has an Eliminator/WD controller set that
they want to sell, I will buy the Eliminator and WD (I can always
use the Eliminator that I have like it is now.. for serial and par.
I/O ..besides.. I have no argument about having another 2 serial
ports around :) )


-*-

87255 9-MAY 22:02  Telecom (6809)
     KBCOM
     From: MMCCLELLAND  To: ALL

Getting off the subject a little, I am looking for a good terminal program,
such as KBCOM. I know that it is in the TELECOM database, but I don't have an
OS-9 terminal program to download it with. If anyone knows how I can get an
UN-ARCHIVED version of KBCOM on disk, leave me a message.
                                                          --Mark

-*-

87262 10-MAY 00:16 Telecom (6809)
     RE: KBCOM (Re: Msg 87255)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: MMCCLELLAND (NR)

Mark,
  First off, grab COCOOS9.BAS from the OS9 General area. This is a DECB program
that will make a disk readable (only) by OS9. Then, download the SuperCom
version 2.2 binary, only the binary. Save SuperComm to a DECB disk as binary
data (like a picture file), and use the COCOOS9.BAS to make the disk readable.
Then boot os9, copy SuperComm onto your normal disk, set the attr, and run.

  SuperComm is intuitive enough that you don't need the docs to do basic stuff.
Run it with the command "supercomm [#xxK] <>>>/w&". "F1" or Alt-? will get you
a list of commands. Now you should be able to get online with OS9, and download
archivers, doc files, and, if you insist, KBCom. :>

  BTW, I uploaded the Supercomm binary seperate and unarchived just for
situations like this. Yell back if you need more detailed info on how to do
all this.


    Randy

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87258 9-MAY 23:35  General Information
     Harddrives
     From: THESCHU      To: ALL

I have been trying to find some info on some hard drives that I got at Dayton
hamfest. make: RODIME  --  model: RO3055  TYPE 92B

If any one has some info on these harddrives please let me know.
 Thanx Brian.  <THESCHU>

-*-

87264 10-MAY 07:44 General Information
     RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87258)
     From: MROWEN01     To: THESCHU

I don't know the exact info you want on these disk drives, but here is what I
dredged up. I don't know if the type 92B means anything or not.
   MODEL   Capacity  Heads  Cylinders  Avg  Interface  Sect  Form Factor
   ------- --------- -----  ---------  ---  ---------  ----  -----------
RODIME 3055  45MB      6      872      28      MFM      17   3.5" HH

If I can be of further assistance, let me know.

Mike Rowen

-*-

87270 10-MAY 20:07 General Information
     RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87264)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: THESCHU

I believe most of the Rodime drives will support 256 byte sectors also, so
it should be usable with a B&B CoCo XT.

-*-

87276 10-MAY 21:44 General Information
     RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87264)
     From: THESCHU      To: MROWEN01 (NR)

THANKS ALOT!!! I needed that info badly!!!
Brian <THESCHU>

-*-

87277 10-MAY 21:45 General Information
     RE: Harddrives (Re: Msg 87270)
     From: THESCHU      To: DSRTFOX (NR)

Thanks!! Brian.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87259 9-MAY 23:42  System Modules (6809)
     RE: Merging files (Re: Msg 87210)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: CHARLESAM

I see Zack got you an answer, though I have a minor correction. The magic
size is n*8K - 512  (not 1024). Do keep N to a minimum, though. when Os9
sets up the map for a program to run, it maps in eveything that was merged
with it. If you run N up, this will eat into the data space you'll have
available.
  For instance, SC is currently around 18K. Due to the 8K granularity, you
can run it with up to 40K of data. If you merge things in, and stay under
23.5K, you can still use 40K of data. But if you go over 23.5K, even though
SC itself is still 18K, you'll only be able to get 32K of data, 'cause
everything you merged in also gets put into SC's map.


   Randy

-*-

87261 10-MAY 00:07 System Modules (6809)
     RE: Merging files (Re: Msg 87259)
     From: CHARLESAM    To: RANDYKWILSON

I only want to use the space to 23040, or next 8K border. My SC is 17861.
I figure that leaves me 5179 to use. I can think of some handy utils to
put in that space.
   I'm trying to use a program called wmenu which came with Tools II from
cocopro. I'm running into difficulty getting it to run from startup. I'm
not sure one can pass control from one program to another, at least not
startup. If you or anyone has any thoughts on this, I'd love to hear them.
As always, thanx for your time and help. Charlie

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87260 9-MAY 23:48  Telecom (6809)
     RE: Loading SC to another window (Re: Msg 87204)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: WA2EGP (NR)

Actually, I was more in your neck of the woods this past weekend. Flew into
Newark and spent the weekend sitting on a mountain at this depressing
place called Pocono Raceway.
 And i was wrong on the schedule. I'm in New York this coming weekend, out on
the wrong end of Long Island (Bridgehampton). Looks like the fest lines up
with the Atlanta race.

   Randy

-*-

87265 10-MAY 08:40 General Information
     usenet
     From: KENFLANAGAN  To: GREGL (NR)

Hi.  Do you know if we could get an usenet reader area added to this SIG?  I
do not like using the NN reader in the Internet menu.  I do like using the
setup in the ATARI sig.  I would prefer to have it here though as I do most of
my on-line stuff here.  Thanks.

-*-

87268 10-MAY 17:11 General Information
     HeathKit case/PS
     From: ILLUSIONIST  To: ALL

A friend of mine gave me an old heathkit floppy system, (real old 5.25
full height clunkers) does anyone have any idea if the PS in it could
host a modern hard drive (I know it couldnt host the old full height
HD's but I was thinking that it might be able to handle the more modern
3.5 HD's.. )

thanks for any info..

                                                   -* Mike

BTW, is there a company out there that still sells SCSI systems for
the CoCo? are they sold complete, or just the controller.. I supply the
HD and case/PS

-*-

87273 10-MAY 20:13 General Information
     RE: HeathKit case/PS (Re: Msg 87268)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)

I'll be selling KenTOn SCSI controllers and complete systems after the CoCoFest.

I'll have a complete setup at the fest for show also!

-*-

87274 10-MAY 20:15 General Information
     RE: HeathKit case/PS (Re: Msg 87273)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: ILLUSIONIST (NR)

Oh yeah, in general, the full height floppies (especially the old ones)
gobbled up power! There should be enough power there to drive a 3.5" hard drive
easily, and probably a relatively new 5.25" half high HD and a floppy with no
problems! That has been my experience with the old grey case RS drive cases
anyweay.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

87272 10-MAY 20:13 OSK Applications
     GNU C/C++
     From: VAXELF       To: ALL

  I downloaded both the NEW GNU C V2.5.8 and C++ V2.5.8

I have a couple of questions about them.

  1. How much memory is required to use them. I have had success using the
     C++ with my 3Meg MM/1, but when I try to use the C compiler it says
     that there is not enough memory to fork CC2.

  2. What dash (-) commands should I have turn on for compiling most
     files.

  3. Are there NEW Docs for the V2.5.8

John Donaldson


Chicago T minus 10 days and counting..................

-*-

87275 10-MAY 20:19 OSK Applications
     RE: GNU C/C++ (Re: Msg 87272)
     From: MITHELEN     To: VAXELF (NR)

You really need 8+ megs to use the new GNU C/C++ stuff for OSK. No answer
for your other questions, since I really haven't looked at the new stuff in
depth. I do have the 2.5.8 docs on my Sun though, so if you want
them, I can probably put them on a bunch od disks for you anbd give them
to you at the Fest.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-


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