
84242 21-DEC 01:44 Games & Graphics
     RE: HELP! (Re: Msg 84216)
     From: MITHELEN     To: TELENUT

Opps... Ok.. it is fixed now.. the "download name" wasn't set properly.
the file should have been called "mgeshow.lzh"
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown

-*-

84245 21-DEC 01:59 Games & Graphics
     RE: HELP! (Re: Msg 84242)
     From: TELENUT      To: MITHELEN


I just realized how rare it is for people reporting problems on any system,
(bbs'es mainly, but I complain to my local sysop all the time <g>) if I hadn't
really needed this util I would have most likely thought "this is over MY
head" and left it. I would like to remind everyone that dropping a line
about a problem is worth the effort and helps out people who havn't asked not
to mention people in the future, and of course the SIGop/sysop.


   Dave (getting off community soapbox)


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84243 21-DEC 01:45 Games & Graphics
     RE: JPEG files (Re: Msg 84203)
     From: MITHELEN     To: ALWAGNER (NR)

Ok.. it is fixed in the database now...
--
Paul Jerkatis
Assistant OS-9 Database Manager

-*-

84244 21-DEC 01:45 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Monitors (Re: Msg 84240)
     From: ALWESTON     To: MITHELEN

Thanks for the feedback. I see what you are saying - I guess I'm wasting
my time... Nevertheless, I did learn something - I didn't know you could xmode
windio, hummm...
Thanks, Alan


-*-

84246 21-DEC 02:07 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Monitors (Re: Msg 84244)
     From: MITHELEN     To: ALWESTON (NR)

you Xmode the Window Descriptors.. not Windio... But, unless you
have the old windio (like pre #38) it won't work, and it is a useless mode.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84247 21-DEC 04:00 General Information
     MM/1 GWindows
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: ALL

    After sitting back and analyzing the FHL G-Windows offer made
recently, I would like to make a few comments and see how other MM/1
owners view the situation.

    I'm very leary of the FHL G-Windows MM/1 port offer for several
reasons.  First, one night it's unsupported, the next night it's
supported.  Frank Hogg is a great guy (really), but the question of
support from FHL is a serious one.  Going from unsupported to supported
on the fly like that doesn't give me additional confidence in his
version of the G-Windows port.  FHL doesn't seem to give out the latest
versions of software (G-Windows edition 37, OSK V2.3, etc.).  I'm not
sure I believe I will always have an up-to-date port of G-Windows
throughout the support timeframe.  On the other hand, I've heard many
stories of how Delmar provides timely updates to their customers.

    Second, look at the TC-9 and TC-70 computers.  They are no longer
being built.  From what I hear, the TC-70 came with OSK V2.3 and I'm not
sure what kind of support is being given to those owners.  Is FHL
providing an update to version 2.4? In any case, Delmar's System IV and
System V computers are still being sold and supported.  Ed Gresick (of
Delmar) is available at all CoCoFests I've been to, while FHL is not a
regular attender.  I like Delmar's accessibility.

    Third, I don't recall the name of the person FHL is putting in
charge of it's MM/1 G-Windows port...  in fact, his name didn't ring a
bell in my mind when I read it.  He very well may be a good programmer,
but I don't recall seeing anything else done by that person.  Who is he?
Will he be at CoCoFests? Does he have the technical skills to keep
G-Windows for MM/1 up to date? One thing I do know is Ed Gresick has
successfully ported G-Windows over to his System computers, and even to
OS-9000.  From what I hear, though, "successfully" is an understatement,
as Ed uses assembly-language optimization and graphics chip features to
increase the efficiency of the port.  I doubt the programmer for FHL
MM/1 G-Windows has this type of experience.

    For these reasons, I'm staying solidly behind the Delmar G-Windows
MM/1 port offer.  I honestly believe it's the port MM/1 owners would be
most happy with, and would get the best value from.  I want to emphasize
that I am not against Frank Hogg, but rather I've seen and heard some
problems with their "supported" products.

    I would like to hear comments on how other MM/1 owners feel who have
been awaiting a G-Windows port.



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84262 21-DEC 22:53 General Information
     RE: MM/1 GWindows (Re: Msg 84247)
     From: HAWKSOFT     To: JOELHEGBERG

Hi Joel (and All);

 I will stand firmly behind Ed (DELMAR) on this one, mostly for the same .

reasons. But, this in NO way is against Frank (FHL).

f*:-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> Chris <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-:

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84248 21-DEC 05:33 New Uploads
     RE: GWINDOWS available for the MM1 (Re: Msg 84237)
     From: EDELMAR      To: ALL

 It's a shame Frank Hogg can't stick to facts and performance and has to
 resort to theatrics, hysterics and rhetoric.  He totally ignores his lies
 re the SYSTEM V.  He does not deny his hardware uses OSK Version 2.3 vs
 Version 2.4 nor his use of an obselete version of G-WINDOWS.  Further, he
 does not indicate any intent to upgrade his systems to current versions.
 Since he isn't supporting his products with upgrades, one can only wonder
 what kind of on-going support he will provide to software effecting a
 competitor's product.

 I think it's sufficient to say that my work has been subject to public
 scrutiny at 3 different shows; i.e., Chicago, San Diego and Atlanta.
 At the Atlanta show, several visitors did request verification of the
 test results I claimed here and in my advertising.  I was able to do
 this and subtantiated my claims.  In fact, the benchmark tests results
 were slightly better than I claim in my advertising.  At the San Diego
 show and the Atlanta show, comments were made comparing the performance
 of the SYSTEM V/G-WINDOWS favorably with SUN work-stations.  To my knowledge,
 Hazelwood/FHL's work has never been shown publicly and their claims have
 never been verified.  Further, FHL's claim of the fastest G-WINDOWS port
 under OS-9 is false.  There are at least 2 other ports from other OEM's that
 have performance far superior to that claimed by FHL.  The burden of proof
 of his claims is on FHL.  IMO, all other claims and statements from Frank
 Hogg should be taken in the same context.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

-*-

84257 21-DEC 21:41 New Uploads
     RE: GWINDOWS available for the MM1 (Re: Msg 84248)
     From: EMTWO        To: EDELMAR

 To Ed and Frank..
   I"m not concerned with claims, hot dogging, or theatrics. What I am
concerned with is wisely spending my money. FHL has been approached
repeatedly in the past about a port of GWindows for the MM/1. Up until
very recently, FHL has shown no interest in such a port.
 Now he does. If he had decided to do this at this time last year, I would
probably be running a FHL version of GWindows today. As for which would be
faster, there is a very simple way to find out. Simply SEND BOTH VERSIONS
to Mark GRiffith. He is not currently involved in the development of
either version, he has in depth knowledge of the MM/1 and MM/1a computers,
and is held in high regard by everyone in the community.

-*-

84266 21-DEC 23:28 New Uploads
     RE: GWINDOWS available for the MM1 (Re: Msg 84257)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: EMTWO (NR)

Paul,

 > What I am concerned with is wisely spending my money.

I totally agree.  That's what the debate should be about.

 > would be faster, there is a very simple way to find out. Simply SEND BOTH
 > VERSIONS to Mark GRiffith. He is not currently involved in the development
 > of either version, he has in depth knowledge of the MM/1 and MM/1a
 > computers, and is held in high regard by everyone in the community.

I agree again, that Mark Griffith would be the person to send both
versions to if speed were the issue (and if both versions were available
for testing).  Still, although I have more faith in Ed Gresick's
assembly optimization experience (so I would think the Delmar port would
be slightly faster), I doubt there will be any noticeable difference
that would make or break one's decision to buy G-Windows from FHL or
Delmar.  The problem I have is with the "support" that FHL may (or may
not) provide us with.  After posting my message, quite a few people have
written to me regarding FHL "horror stories".  The stories are not about
the quality of FHL products (Frank has tremendous experience in building
and designing computer systems), but rather with the support they
receive after purchase, and the outdated software they receive with
their purchase.

As this is a software/support issue, I definitely have to back the
Delmar G-Windows port.



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

84268 22-DEC 00:14 New Uploads
     RE: GWINDOWS available for the MM1 (Re: Msg 84248)
     From: PAGAN        To: ALL

 >At the San Diego show and the Atlanta show, comments were made comparing the
 >performance of the SYSTEM V/G-WINDOWS favorably with SUN work-stations.

 At San Diego this year ('93) the System V (68020-25mhz) running G-Windows
 that Ed loaned the San Diego OS9UG was perceived by show visitors (and some
 participants!) to be noticeably faster than the '486's running Windows in
 the Micrsoft booth about 30 feet away.  At least one visitor to the booth
 thought the machine was a SUN workstation.

 I am not claiming that the System IV is faster than a '486 clone but the
 combination of Ed'd port of G-Windows with the System IV did _appear_ faster
 to people visiting the booth.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84249 21-DEC 05:45 Programmers Den
     C library
     From: MROWEN01     To: ALL

Thanks everyone for your help with the C graphics library. I'll download it
tonight. Happy holidays!

-Mike

-*-

84250 21-DEC 06:24 General Information
     RE: Christmas Mass (Re: Msg 84232)
     From: BROWN80      To: REVWCP

Thank you, Brother Jeremy.  I have no special  intention, but I will remember
you on Christmas Eve also.  You are so right about this being a special group of

people.
                 John Brown

-*-

84251 21-DEC 07:12 OSK Applications
     t3 board jumpers
     From: KEITHBAUER   To: SCWEGERT

Steve, I was wondering if I have the jumpers set correctly on the paddle
board. Mine is set to DTE with RTS-DTR toggled. Is this correct when using
a 14.4 modem and t3 type is 80?

Thanks

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Keith Bauer

 CIS     :71102,317
 Delphi  :keithbauer
 Internet:kbauer@pids.com

 Via InfoXpress/OSK ver 1.01                     How 'bout them Cowboys!
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


-*-

84252 21-DEC 07:29 General Information
     RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84132)
     From: MARKGRIFFITH To: DIETER

Dieter,

 > The XYDOWN program I have is:  Module size $ 6DC2, CRC $ 9027D1, Edition
 > #7, is that the XYDOWN IX is using?

That's the same one I have.


                  /************* /\/\ark ************/

                  (uploaded with InfoXpress Ver 1.01)

-*-

84254 21-DEC 12:49 General Information
     RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84236)
     From: CBJ          To: AJMLFCO (NR)

In the computer world most standards committees are working on standards based
on what will be possible in the near future.  SCSI-2 is one example.  The buss
was designed, prototyped and turned over to a committee to write up all of the
standards.  The whole idea is to keep manufacturers from floundering around
blindly creating computers or ancillary components that will not work with the
other subsystems which are either in design, prototyping or production.  In a
market that is updating approximately every 18 months this is a necessity.  I
venture to guess most products (like cars) do not get full revamps that fast.
 -Carl

-*-

84267 22-DEC 00:13 General Information
     RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84236)
     From: PAGAN        To: AJMLFCO (NR)

 Allen,

 GESPAC sells network hardware based on the fieldbus standard under the trade
 name 'filbus'.  They have controller cards and software for their line of
 G-64 bus OS9 computers and IBM PC's under both MS-Dos and OS9000.  They sell
 a bunch of different kinds of plug in modules and, according to a sales rep I
 talked to, a prototyping board.

 Stephen (PAGAN)

-*-

84270 22-DEC 05:17 General Information
     RE: MM/1 Production (Re: Msg 84254)
     From: BROWN80      To: CBJ (NR)

In most markets you couldn't get by with making the consumer pay for correcting
your mistakes and calling the process an upgrade.
                     John Brown

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84253 21-DEC 12:34 General Information
     RE: Under $1000 OSK System? (Re: Msg 83835)
     From: CBJ          To: DSRTFOX (NR)

BTW, Sears no longer has a catalog.  It is due to their ceasing to print a
catalog that I will eventually be out of a job.  The Sears accounts were
approximately 85% of our gross sales in our division.  The decision to phase
out the Chicago Manufacturing Division Of RR Donnelley & Sons was due directly
to Sears' decision to drop their catalog.  The last catalog as produced in
March and 75% of our personel were laid off.  The rest of us will be laid off
over the next 5 months.  Did the loss of Sears hurt RRD?  Nope! record profits
again as well as record sales.
 Carl

-*-

84255 21-DEC 19:27 Applications (6809)
     RE: Bible Accordence Ready (Re: Msg 84229)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: REVWCP


 > Thank you for the Good News (about the Good Book...)  Wishing you and all
 > near and dear to you God's blessings at this Holy Season.
 >

    My family and I thank you Brother Jeremy, and may you and yours have a
 Merry Christmas and a happier, healthier New Year.

-
   John Baer
   johnbaer@delphi.com
   jbaer@pacs.pha.pa.us

   *** InfoXpress 1.01.00 ***

-*-

84256 21-DEC 21:23 General Information
     VGA graphics
     From: TEDJAEGER    To: ALL

I notice that GWindows can support VGA (640X480) graphics on the MM1. My
question: For those of us with a VGA monitor and an MM1, is it possible
to generate the 640X480 screen in the absence of GWindows (and use it in
any productive way)? Would it be an interlaced screen?
 --Bests,
 --TedJaeger

-*-

84263 21-DEC 23:22 General Information
     RE: VGA graphics (Re: Msg 84256)
     From: MITHELEN     To: TEDJAEGER (NR)

The 640x480 mode on the VSC is an interlace mode... The basic modes that woul
work on a VGA (31kHz) monitor have resolutions of 160x480x256, and 320x480x16.
Not really usefull modes... So, any GWindows port for an MM/1 will probably
be using the 640x480x16 interlaced mode (or more likely the wider 740 width
overscaned mode, to get maximumm pixel space)
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: Chicago Area OS-9 Users Group
 UUCP ...{balr|tellab5}!vpnet!sandv.chi.il.us!sysop
 Internet: MITHELEN@Delphi.com

 "Did you ever notice how cheep 99% of all BBS users are?" - Unknown


-*-

84265 21-DEC 23:28 General Information
     RE: VGA graphics (Re: Msg 84256)
     From: JOELHEGBERG  To: TEDJAEGER (NR)

 > I notice that GWindows can support VGA (640X480) graphics on the MM1. My
 > question: For those of us with a VGA monitor and an MM1, is it possible
 > to generate the 640X480 screen in the absence of GWindows (and use it in
 > any productive way)? Would it be an interlaced screen?

You can use use type 7 screen (which is 768x480) and use it just like
any other screen under K-Windows, including overlapping windows.  It's
the screen I like to use when I have multiple applications running on
the same screen.



  -- Joel Mathew Hegberg.

 Delphi   : JOELHEGBERG
 GEnie    : j.hegberg
 Internet : JoelHegberg@delphi.com


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84258 21-DEC 21:56 OSK Applications
     RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84163)
     From: KSCALES      To: KEITHBAUER

Hi, Keith -

Sorry that you've been having problems getting your new modem to work
properly.  Wish I had one so that I could contribute some specific
recommendations!  However, I am using a Microcom AX/2400c (2400 baud
with MNP5), and it doesn't even have the AT&Kx command you folks have
been discussing.

But perhaps I can provide a few comments that might help:

There is a file on the Ocean Beach BBS (619- 224-4878) describing how
to enable CTS/RTS handshaking.  (I believe it is called something like
t3fix.ar.)  However, I think you have covered most of the steps:
xmode type=80, and strap RTS/DTR toggled (P4 pins 1-2 and 5-6 strapped;
3|4 and 7|8 unstrapped) and DTE mode (1-2, 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, 9-10, 11-12
strapped).

Set the modem to H/W handshaking -- I guess your modem uses AT&K3 for
this.  Mine uses AT\Q3.

You mentioned that you are setting your MM/1 port to 19200.  High speed
modems have a nice feature where you can lock the modem-computer speed
to a fixed value, regardless of the "CONNECT" rate.  However, both the
modem and telecom program need to be set up (co-ordinated) to make this
work.  For my modem, it is called the "BPS rate adjust" feature, and
AT\J0 tells the modem to lock the computer-side rate, regardless of the
connection speed.  (AT\J1 tells the modem to change the computer-side
to the same speed as the connection.)  Your modem may already be set up
to lock the computer connection speed (AT\J0 for mine; yours will probably
be different.)  For OSTerm 68K to work properly with this setup, you will
need to tell it to lock the baud rate as well (rather than autobauding),
otherwise after connection, the modem will be communicating at 19200,
and your computer will be listening at 2400, due to the "CONNECT 2400"
message received.  There should be a readme
file on your distribution disk describing the FIXEDBAUD environment
variable temporarily used for this purpose in the Alpha release of OSTerm 68K.
("setenv FIXEDBAUD whatever").  In the upcoming release this will be
handled in the osterm.config file, with entries like:
    PORT    = /t0, 2400
    PORT    = /t3, 9600, LOCKED
 OSTerm will match the entry for the current port, and set up accordingly.

You will also want to go through your IX "*.ini" files and change the
baud rates listed to 19200.

This may help with your "connect, but no response" results with AT&K3.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237
 I've ordered Delmar's G-Windows for my MM/1: Have you? Deadline Feb 28/94.

-*-

84259 21-DEC 21:56 OSK Applications
     RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84230)
     From: KSCALES      To: RANDYKWILSON

Hi, Randy -

 > You have hardware set correctly in the xmode (type=80). I can only
 > think of two things. Having never seen/used TasCom (OSTerm), I can not say
 > for sure that it doesn't mangle the type byte.

Just thought I would follow up and fill in the missing info <g>.

TasCOM did have a problem "mangling the type byte", which caused problems
using x/ymodem transfers, especially with hardware handshaking.

This was one of the first fixes made when we upgraded it to OSTerm 68K.

Cheers... / Ken

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237
 I've ordered Delmar's G-Windows for my MM/1: Have you? Deadline Feb 28/94.

-*-

84271 22-DEC 05:30 OSK Applications
     RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84230)
     From: KEITHBAUER   To: RANDYKWILSON (NR)

Randy


 > Oh!! one more idea... paddle board jumperings. These can be set to force
 > DTR and RTS always ??? (supposedly true, but I believeit's actually
 > false). Looking at the paddle from the front of the computer, you should
 > have: blank, jumped, blank, jumped, cable connector   : | : |
 > [=======]. The ones by the db9 are all longitudal ||||||.
 >

I think this has been my problem. The first set of four were set just the
opposite of the way you have them. I switched them and I was able to
upload to the bbs! Now if I knew were to find out more about what those
settings mean....

Thanks

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Keith Bauer

 CIS     :71102,317
 Delphi  :keithbauer
 Internet:kbauer@pids.com

 Via InfoXpress/OSK ver 1.01                     How 'bout them Cowboys!
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------


-*-

84272 22-DEC 06:32 OSK Applications
     RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84230)
     From: SCWEGERT     To: RANDYKWILSON (NR)

The other possibility is an outdated driver. My sc68681 is ed# 29, not
 > guarranteed to bethe latest. It works. (and I probably out to go back and
 > see if you alreadyposted this info :).

I believe the latest and greated of the sc68681 is edition 32 and can be found
in CompuServe's OS9 Forum. That's where Carl's been making his updates
available.

Something else to check is the input/output buffer sizes of /t3. These can
be modified with moded (so long as you have the moded.fields file that came
with the updated drivers). I've got mine set to 2048.


*- Steve -*


-*-

84273 22-DEC 06:32 OSK Applications
     RE: 14.4 help (Re: Msg 84228)
     From: SCWEGERT     To: KEITHBAUER (NR)

 >Okay I have set it to &K3 and I dialed up a BBS (which has all 14.4
 > modems) but I connect but nothing else. If I have it set to &K4 I log on
 > fine.
 > Using &K4 I can log on to Delphi but can't upload. Using &K3 I can't even
 > get on to Delphi. Please send me your INIT string. Here are the edition
 > numbers of my modules:
 >
 > SC68681 edition 32
 >

That's the current edition of the driver so you're in good shape there.
You've got something weird with the hardware handshaking settings ... perhaps
on the paddle board itself. There are jumpers that can be set to control
the handling of RTS/CTS ... whether to keep 'em high all the time, or let
them float. You need the later for proper operation. How are they set?

 > Do you have different INIT strings for IX and your term program?

I'm not using anything special in my init string with IX. All that's there
is  atmx4^m  . I'm using the factory defaults for the modem's parameters which
includes the &K3 setting for hardware handshaking.


I'm betting it's the jumpers on your paddle board. Let us know what you find.

The jumpers on P4 control the logic of RTS and DTR.  The jumper is labeled as:

  1 * * 2
  3 * * 4
  5 * * 6
  7 * * 8

looking at the paddle board with the DB-9 to the left.  Jumpering pins 1 and 2
allow RTS to toggle freely.  Jumpers across 3 and 4 tie RTS high.  Jumpering
pins 5 and 6 allow DTR to toggle freely while jumpering 7 and 8 tie it high.

Hope this helps!

*- Steve -*


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

84260 21-DEC 22:29 Applications (6809)
     Edit
     From: TONYREED     To: ALL

Has anyone ever hacked into Edit (plain vanilla) and found a way of
getting it *not* to indent 3 spaces when it's listing?

It makes a pretty powerful mail reader, but the format's annoying.
Looked through a disassembly briefly (very) but didn't see anything,
even searching for the Write system calls.

Best of the season,
Tony.

-*-

84261 21-DEC 22:36 General Information
     RE: ghostscript (Re: Msg 84172)
     From: HAWKSOFT     To: REVWCP

 >... And don't forget to attend ..........

     AMEN!!!

:-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> :-> Chris <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-: <-:

-*-

84264 21-DEC 23:23 General Information
     RE: UUCP 5.2 for OSK (Re: Msg 84241)
     From: WA2EGP       To: BOISY

Ahhhh......I wonder who Bob is going to tap on the shoulder to try it.
Someone who can blow up a computer just by looking at it I assume (evil grin).
Actually, I had no doubts about the port since Bob and I are friends from
way back.  I know he does good stuff.

-*-

84269 22-DEC 01:32 Applications (6809)
     RE: lha211b (Re: Msg 83684)
     From: VE3DAC       To: WTHOMPSON (NR)

This is a very belated reply to a note you sent on Dec 2, about lha and rbf30
problems
[Dt  ypo n you are also having
problems but glad I`m not alone anymore on this one.  Thanks for the
advice and will look forward to the solution.
Merv

-*-


FORUM>Reply, Add, Read, "?" or Exit> 