From: TURTLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/04/90 17:52:55
Message Number  5603

"Food, Folks, and Fun" is the dumbest advertising campaign I think
I've ever seen McDonald's use. Speaking of which, I wish you folks
would stop sniping at each other and learn to have fun on this board;
maybe you two ought to go out to lunch or something...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: SmallTalk (tm) 
Date & Time: 06/04/90 17:57:36
Message Number  5604

>If y0u trace s0me diseases back, they were started by us, in 0ur
>quest t0 better 0urse1ves...
 
Okay, name some. Are you suggesting that perhaps polio, smallpox, or
typhoid are technological artifacts? An interesting premiss to try
to defend, if so. Have fun!
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: accomodating   
Date & Time: 06/04/90 20:37:35
Message Number  5606

     Yes, that is part of being Italian.  When people come over to my 
house I can't help but want to give them something to eat.  
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/04/90 20:52:20
Message Number  5607

     I thought the Enterprise did have a cloaking device.  Remember 
when they landed in San Fransisco and parked in the park?  Did they not
use a cloaking device then?  True it was the new and improved version of
the Enterprise.
                              *         *
"And don't forget where we parked."
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: accomodating   
Date & Time: 06/04/90 23:17:05
Message Number  5608

I'm 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Lebanese (Arab).  I always have this urge to 
serve pasta then hijack a plane.  :)
 
   ...ya know, Tofu isn't that bad.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/04/90 23:18:51
Message Number  5609

Crystal sez:
 
     I thought the Enterprise did have a cloaking device.  Remember
when they landed in San Fransisco and parked in the park?  Did they not
use a cloaking device then?  True it was the new and improved version
of
the Enterprise.
                              *         *
"And don't forget where we parked."
 
The ship in ST IV was not the Enterprise.  The Enterprise 'bought the
farm' in ST III.  They 'borrowed' that ship from the Klingons (or was
it Romulons?).  Heck, the Enterprise can't even enter the atmosphere
and land.
 
       ...I suppose it could, but getting up into orbit again would be
a pain in the butt.
===========

From: MMILLER             
To: ALL                 
Subject: Apple LISA Sale
Date & Time: 06/04/90 23:55:48
Message Number  5610

I don't know who out there might be interested but I've got an Apple
LISA that I need to sale.  It comes with a 5 meg Profile hard disk and
the complete LISA Office software package.  The LISA Office does come
with a terminal program.  
 
The vertical hold doesn't seem to hold all the time but I'm sure that
this is just a MINOR problem.  All this computer history can be yours
for only $100.  If you're interested just reply to this message or
drop by and see the LISA for yourself.  Its at Computer Annex,
7119 S. Trail in Sarasota.  You can call 923-3991 (voice) and ask
for Mike or Don. Thanx...
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SmallTalk (tm) 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 00:11:18
Message Number  5612

   I mean viruses.... C0mputer Viruses!!! HAhahahaha
 
  Seri0us1y, if they didn't 0riginate fr0m us, where the he11 are the 
y fr0m?
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Tofu           
Date & Time: 06/05/90 00:21:39
Message Number  5616

  >...ya know, Tofu isn't that bad.
                                                                        
     Yes it is.
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/05/90 00:31:22
Message Number  5618

Yea, I knew that, so whats your point?
                                                                        
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: afterlife      
Date & Time: 06/05/90 00:51:18
Message Number  5619

I agree with you.  I was just not being verbose on the subject of heart
attacks.  But a factor that you may not have considered is that the 
heart stoppage does not necessarily mean that the heart muscle is
beyond chance of recovering.  A strong burst of adrenalin (controled by
the brain) and nerve firings may cause the heart to restart.  I am not
an MD, but 3 people in my imediate family are doctors.  And I know what
can happen to a muscle, or a group of muscles  have an excess of 
adrenalin.  They can do amazing things.  Consider the example of a 
women lifting up a car to save her baby.  An amazing feat in itself,
considering that most people can barely lift a volkswagon bug from the
front end up barely an inch.  This feat is can be acconmplished do to
adrenalin, and the fact that the body can do amazing things when it
does not realize what it can not do!
      Now, about the humans only using 3/4 of their potential.  I am
not talking just about their automated functions.  For instance the
fact that sometimes we blink many times a second.  Yes, a portion of
our brain is being used to do this.  As are many that allow us to 
drive a car down the road at 55 mph and not get killed instantly.  
But the fact is that we really are only begining to find out what parts
of our brain are used at certain times.  Now, consider a person looking
at a rock.  I agree that that person is using quite a bit of their brain
to look at that rock.  But not all of it.  We know know this due to
radioactive isotopes and advances in CAT scans.  Now what if all the
synapses were firing, 100% of our brain is firing synapses telling our
heart to start beating.  It is my belief that our heart would be able
to restart.  
       Now would be a good time to get into an arguement as to when we
are actually dead.  The law says it is when our brain is dead.  Yet 
when the state executes a prisoner, the doctor checks for pupil
dialation and a heart beat.  That is not necesarilly death.
So, for my hypothesis to be correc
 he trail to
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: afterfile cont.
Date & Time: 06/05/90 01:24:12
Message Number  5620

>so for my hypothesis
 
 to be correct, death would have to occur with that brain still 
functioning.  Not 15 minutes later after the heart stopped. (unless
you were frozen)
     PS. the message editor would not let me delete or retype my
last line.  (whats up?)
                                Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: ANGEL               
Subject: correct        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 01:28:30
Message Number  5621

My Ideas are important to me.  Perhaps not to someone else.  If they
were not willing to take the time to figure them out then perhaps
my Ideas are no important to them.  Now, I know this is a poor way to
think, and most of the time I try to make myself clear and consice.  
And if I were to send in a story to a publisher, I would proof read that
story many times to make sure that there were no errors!  I respect
what you have to say.  And I do care what people think of me, and 
this board, and the people on it seem to be good.  The conversation
is fun, and intelligent (for the most part), and besides its good to
argue with someone without running into a brick wall.  You know the
type, "YOUR WRONG, I'M RIGHT, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT,
YOUR A SLUG, ect."  And, if it comes down to it, I will just have to
bring my dictionary, my english comp. book, and my thesorus with me
when ever I log on.  But I do not think I will have to go that far.  
My grammer and spelling is not so horrible that my ideas do not get
across.                  ^are (arrghh)  I believe that some, if not
many of my Ideas are worth hearing, and that people will ignore the
misspellings and occasional grammatical errors when reading my posts.
     I still believe that because someone has trouble with syntax and
or typing that they are unintelligent!  Consider that at Ringling School
of art and design, one in three have some form of dislexia or learning
disiability.  This does not mean that they are not intelligent.  Someone
is surely not stupid because they misspell Arnold Swartzeneger.  (like
I probably just did!)
      Class dismissed!
                 Tree
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 01:48:23
Message Number  5622

Thank you for the clarification.  Could you go a few steps further.
I am still confused by what you are referring to as the method of
debating that you have a distaste for.  And what does "weedy" mean?
    I still do not see how my message could be construed to be a
vehement spew.  I'm not copping-out, I'm still baffled.  Since
starting this, I've been told I am behaving in certain ways that I
am not seeing from this side, and no one is giving me any concrete
examples.
    Generalities aside, what is the exact nature of your objections.
Unless I know, I will continue doing it.  Most of you on this board
are experienced at this kind of communication, and possess a wealth of
background from previous exchanges to draw upon.  My experience is
almost totally limited to AR and the Den.  You have shorthands for
conversations that I'm not aware of, and have phrases that trigger
certain emotions because of linkages to past experiences that are
beyond my knowledge.
    As far as the sweeping under the rug and cutesy replies...you say
that annoys you because you've seen it far too often.  I haven't.
When the only specific objection to my post was that of not
appreciating or possesing humor ---- well, I thought the next 
response you were soliciting from me was one of humor and light-
heartedness.  And I provided that.  It was not a cop-out.  It was
a sincere effort to try to mend fences, one that I thought you were
cueing me into.  An invitation to lighten things up, was taken as a hint
to let things drop, or, as you put it "sweep it under the rug."
    There seem to be some unwritten rules here that I have violated.
And I still don't know what they are.  I'm not going to learn until
someone tells me.  References to other conversations that I have not
been privy to are not enlightening.  Come on, Donthen, help me out here.
                         -- still confused in Sarasota
                                     Angel
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 02:22:05
Message Number  5623

> If you trace some diseases back, they were started by us,
 
Which ones?
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: lunch          
Date & Time: 06/05/90 02:24:33
Message Number  5624

>stop sniping at each other and...go out to lunch or something.
Sounds like the best idea I've heard in a while.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: SmallTalk (tm) 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 02:28:45
Message Number  5625

>if they didn't originate from us, where the hell are they from?
   From nature.  Diseases have existed long before man.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: correct        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 02:35:04
Message Number  5626

In an imperfect world, we are stuck dealing with people's bigotries.
And, unfortunately, people's intelligence is often judged by their
written skills.  It's not right, but it's a reality.  No need to grab
your thesaurus and dictionary.  I'll struggle through any number of
errors to get at the meaning.
   But I can't accept the attitude often expressed (by others, not by
you) that spelling and grammar just are never important.  And it's
especially sad to hear this from would-be writers.
They just can't comprehend that an editor can't be wasting his/her
time wading through their errors in hope of discovering an obscure
brilliant thought.  
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: Tofu           
Date & Time: 06/05/90 03:09:51
Message Number  5629

  T0fu is Bean Curd in Japanese.... yuck, s0unds as bad as y0gurt.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: ANGEL               
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 03:15:01
Message Number  5630

  S0me cures ye made started new diseases.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: Y'A11               
Subject: Trivia!        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 03:16:37
Message Number  5631

 0K, wh0 said:
 
  1) Stick ar0und
 
  2) C'm0n, cut the cake bef0re they get div0rced.
 
  3) 0h, yeah, we11 I kn0w h0w t0 spe11 B1ue!
 
 C1ue: They're n0t fr0m the same pers0n. HAHAHA
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/05/90 06:28:24
Message Number  5632

 > or was it Romulons?
 
  No, it was Klingons... 
  You know, I can't picture the Enterprise taking off. 
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: animation      
Date & Time: 06/05/90 06:30:18
Message Number  5633

 > This means you're not planning on dong the Star Trek trek?
 
  I want to do the Trek trek. Ken Ober wants to do the Trek trek. I just
want someone to fill me in so BOTH Ken Ober and I know what to be doing!
  
  SOMEBODY HELP! Read message #5611!! Come on, Donthen, Turtle, you guys
know what I need to know, don't you??
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Trivia!        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 06:37:44
Message Number  5634

 > Stick around
 
  Well, lesse, that was a Julian Lennon song, they say it at a lot of 
commercial breaks, and millions of people worldwide say it everyday...
 
  Actually, what I'm getting at is: be a bit more specific than "OK, who
said these:"...
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ANGEL               
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 08:11:22
Message Number  5635

Well, saying you were pissed off at me in those words was probably the
main reason	 I took your message as a "vehement spew."
 
I think you may be reading more into this entire message chain than is
actually there.  I did say this was a personal distaste on my part, I
said that it wasn't really that big of a deal, it was just something
that bothered me, and to top it off, in the message to you that I'm
assuming triggered this, it said that it wasn't necessarily about
conversations on this board to begin with.
 
There are no "unwritten rules" for BBS's; what is and isn't allowed is
up to the sysop.  Very few /users/ will appreciate ad hominem attacks
or anything that seems to be directed personally at them, but that's
not something unique to computers.
 
The only thing I was expressing annoyance at was the "tactic" in online
conversation of saying something in an extremely inflammatory fashion
and then expressing baffled surprise, genuine or not, when people take
your original message as extremely inflammatory.  Your original message
to Turtle that started this whole nonsense took his message really
personally when it wasn't even to you, responded to it in a way that got
him more agitated than I've seen him in a long time, and you followed it
up with a "Who, me? How could you take it seriously?" when the way you
had put things made it quite serious.  (Not having "body language" on a
BBS debate may be bad, but neither do essay writers, and the tone still
comes through.)  My only point had been, that sort of reaction bugs me
because when you do say something that strongly, you should be prepared
for those sort of responses.  That wasn't anything personal, it was only
critical of your message.  NOT YOU.  It seems you did the whole thing
again with this message chain, though, flaming me out for something that
wasn't particularly nasty and expressing surprise when I get hurt.  Go
back and read your message to me.  Surprise!  It hurt.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 08:26:04
Message Number  5636

You keep saying "cures started new diseases."  NAME ONE!  Dammit, you
can't come up with an outrageous statement like that without the ability
to back it up and you haven't demonstrated that ability.  The early
vaccines for some diseases could inflict those diseases when given, but
that's not what you said.  What ARE you talking about?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: Tofu           
Date & Time: 06/05/90 10:01:58
Message Number  5637

>>...ya know, Tofu isn't that bad.
>
>    Yes it is.
 
Oh no, could this be the start of a Tofu war?  My sister buys this Tofu
stuff which tastes just like meat.  She seasons it and slaps in on some
nachos.  Yum.  I'm sure I'll one day meet some Tofu I don't like.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/05/90 10:03:51
Message Number  5638

Errr, my point was that the ship in ST IV was not the Enterprise.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/05/90 10:08:28
Message Number  5639

>You know, I can't picture the Enterprise taking off.
 
It would be hard for the Enterprise to land on the ground and stay 
balanced.  It might be easier for 1701-D, but that saucer section would
probably make the whole thing front-heavy.
 
    ...I know!  We'll have a saucer seperation.  Make it so.  <snicker>
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Trivia!        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 10:12:42
Message Number  5640

>  1) Stick ar0und
 
That would be Arnold Schwarzenegger after throwing a knife through a 
guys torso.  I think the movie was "Predator."
 
"This is the best mind-fuck yet."-Arnie S.
===========

From: RICHARD             
To: SAURON              
Subject: menus          
Date & Time: 06/05/90 12:02:44
Message Number  5641

DO IT!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Hijack service 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 15:28:04
Message Number  5643

>I'm 1/4 Italian, 1/4 Lebanese...I always have this urge to serva pasta
>then hijack a plane.
 
Why not hijack a plane that's serving pasta as the in-flight meal?
Or, of course, you could dedicate yourself to dying for Allah by
overeating and clogging your arteries...
 
>...ya know, Tofu isn't that bad.
 
You're right. It's worse.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: SmallTalk (tm) 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 15:31:12
Message Number  5644

>...if they don't originate from us, where the hell are they from?
 
The same place insects, amphibians, and homonids are from, dude!
Viruses and pathogenic bacteria evolved right alongside all the other
forms of life, and in fact /most/ human diseases are not human-specific.
A Rhesus monkey can die of typhoid or bubonic plague just as well as
any old human can. Personally, I'll take technology with its longer
life span and higher standard of living over "getting back to nature"
and dying of something nobody's seen in a developed country since 1832.
 
On a slightly related topic, it's kind of interesting that America's
inner cities are turning into miniature third-world countries in more
ways than one. I just today read an article that says tuberculosis,
typhoid fever, and other "archaic" diseases that you simply don't see
in affluent countries are starting to become a big problem in
a lot of inner cities...everyone was cheerfully predicting that
TB would be extinct by the end of the 1980's, yet right now it's at
the highest point it's been in this country since the '20's. Does this
bother anyone besides me?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: afterlife      
Date & Time: 06/05/90 15:37:52
Message Number  5645

Hmm. Okay, since we seem to be developing this discussion quite nicely,
here's a few points I'd like to mention about your post, both trivial
and not. 
   First of all, feats like people lifting Volkswagens over their heads
to save their babies are due to the release of large quantities of
endorphins, not adrenaline. Adrenaline can cause an increase in muscle
efficiency, but the upper limit of muscle functionm is imposed by the
action of gamma motor neurons, which are attached to stretch receptors
in the muscle and act to inhibit motor neuron function when they're
firing (in a classic spinal reflex arc, only an inhibitory one rather
than an excitatory one). Endorphins (and some drugs like PCP) can block
the activity of gamma motor neurons (that's why people who are dusted
are such a pain to arrest...they just rip apart the handcuffs and any
stray policemen they can get their hands on). Of course, what you
generally /don't/ hear about is what happens to these people, and to
people who toss Volkswagens around...they generally end up with torn
muscles and ligaments, cracked or broken bones, and the like.
   Yes, it is true that a heart attack victim oftentime has not
suffered catastrophic failure of the heart muscle, and with a proper
impetus it can be forced to beat again. This isn't going to happen if
all the neurons in your brain fire at once, though; most of 'em aren't
in any way associated with motor control, much less heart control, and
if all of 'em fire simultaneously you die. (Epileptic seisures are
caused by massive, uncontrolled neuronal activity in the brain.) The
only thing which allows a brain to function is the fact that 
neuronal activity is a /controlled, patterned/ sequence of firings; if
you lose the pattern of activity (ie, if all your nerve cells fire
at once or stop firing at once) organization is lost and the organ stops
working. (Continued)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: Afterlife con't
Date & Time: 06/05/90 15:46:05
Message Number  5646

(continued)
   That doesn't mean that autonomic functions aren't subject to acts of
will, or that death is a process that doesn't respond to the person's
wishes. If your willpower is strong enough, you CAN force your body
to continue working under circumstances where it would normally
quit, and vice-versa; witness the effectiveness of placebos and
shamanism, and the number of people in hospitals who have died from
what should have been non-terminal conditions simply because they
gave up. The mechanisms by which that sort of brain/body interaction
take place are more sophisticated and subtle than you suggest, though.
 
Finally, saying that every part of your brain isn't active at all times
is NOT the same as saying you don't use your entire brain. The brain
is a specialized, differentiated instrument; it's not homogenous
all the way through like a potato, and parts of it are dedicated to
performing specific functions. When those parts aren't active, that
doesn't mean they are available for other tasks--if you're not
talking, you haven't just freed up your speech centers to help you
tackle a calculus problem. Saying that people don't use their brains
to their maximum capacity because not all the areas are active at
once is kind of like saying people don't use their cars to their
maximum capacity because they don't have the heater and air conditioner
running at the same time.
                 --A biological Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: Afterlife mess 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 15:54:25
Message Number  5647

The message editor for this software (or more accurately, the howling
dog that CLAIMS to be a message editor) won't let you change the last
line of your message once you have run out of room in the text buffer.
I don't know why, but it might have something to do with the fact
that the man who wrote this software wouldn't know good programming
if it sent his sister a letter bomb.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/05/90 16:01:35
Message Number  5648

>You know, I can'ty picture the Enterprise taking off.
 
/I/ can't picture the damn thing LANDING! In addition to a troublesome
lack of certain vital components of a reentry craft (heatshields,
some sort of manuvering system strong enough to hold it up against
a steep gravity gradient so it doesn't fall down go boom, aerodynamic
grace...) I strongly suspect that if you subjected it to one gee in
any direction other than parallel to its normal direction of motion when
it's under acceleration it'd fall apart under its own weight. That
thin neck is NOT going to hold that saucer up! The Enterprise was
designed for zero-gee, built in zero-gee, and clearly not ment to stay
in one piece under full gravity. The only direction it was designed to
take any sort of stress in is longitudinally from stern to nose, and
the designers probably didn't anticipate the engine supports actually
supporting the weight of the engines or the saucer support holding the
saucer up in a gravity well...
 
Besides, it doesn't even have any landing skids!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: animation      
Date & Time: 06/05/90 16:06:50
Message Number  5649

I suspect Donthen may, but in this one I sadly must plead ignorance.
All I know is that i am GOING to see Akira at least once; when that
will be, how many people it will involve, what car(s) these people
will take, where these people will meet, and who gets to ride in the
front seat are all details that haven't been worked out yet.
 
...shotgun!
 
Okay, so now ONE of the details has been worked out.
                        --A clueless Turtle
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: animation      
Date & Time: 06/05/90 16:21:36
Message Number  5650

> all details that haven't been worked out...
 
   Oooookay... well, if someone finds out something, please post. I want
to do this with Tyler and the rest of you, and gong to Tampa on the spur
of the moment is something I wouldn't be able to do. Now if I plan ahead
, maybe...
===========

From: THRUD               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: Tofu           
Date & Time: 06/05/90 16:41:10
Message Number  5651

Sawdust isn't bad if you cover it with enough tomato sauce, garlic
and cheese.        
                     A non-tofu Thrud
===========

From: THRUD               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/05/90 16:45:20
Message Number  5652

I/ve also never seen a little hook on the front for the little 
tractor to pull it into the hanger.
===========

From: THRUD               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: LBJ            
Date & Time: 06/05/90 16:47:02
Message Number  5653

I'm always happy to jump right in and slam a liberal whenever the
need arises! LBJ's election to the Senate was perhaps one of the
crookedest of all times. One of his aides is currently promoting
his book 'telling all'. He says he waited for all the other parties
involved to die, 'cus he didn't want to hurt anyone. More dead 
people and non-english-speaking-people (whew) voted for LBJ than
any other candidate. 'Course, that's been standard in Texas politics
since before they joined the Union - you don't think anyone actually
thought Sam Houston was a good president, do ya?
                  A flame-fanning Thrud
===========

From: THRUD               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Jim Bob Carter 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 16:53:04
Message Number  5654

Let's hear it for the most honest, loving, Christian president we've
ever had - Mr. James Earl Carter. His benevolence and love of mankind
still shines on in his wonderful work with Habitat for Humanity.
  Unfortunately, the dipshit didn't know economics from garbonzo beans,
and damn near ran this country into the worst depression in History.
  (You'll note that in the spirit of kindness and generousity I 
refrained from making a reference to peanuts, and instead used the
kinder, gentler bean which has come to represent our Vice pres.)
             A former-president bashing Thrud
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Trivia!        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 17:03:52
Message Number  5655

     AAAANNNNGGG! Thank y0u f0r p1aying!
 
 Predat0r: Arnie impa1es a guy with a big knife, Nai1ing him int0 a tree
and Arnie dec1ares...Stick Ar0und
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 17:07:27
Message Number  5656

  They made a cure f0r 0ne kind 0f 1uekemia which started an0ther kind
0f 1uekemia.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: SmallTalk (tm) 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 17:10:39
Message Number  5657

   Thank y0u, Dr. Turt1e f0r kicking me in the side 0f the head and 
c1earing the c0bwebs.
 
 
 Aha! Chem testing, waste dump! These fuck up kids when they're b0rn &
a h0rde 0f 0ther f01k t00. I'm sure that started a disease 0r tw0.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: THRUD               
Subject: Jim Bob Carter 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 17:19:02
Message Number  5658

  When Dan Quay1e bec0mes pres (Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha)
y0u'11 be s0rry y0u made fun 0f him!
 
 
 Y0u kn0w he wasted a day C0mmentating a baseba11 game? Ugh. I'm a1m0st
embarassed t0 be fr0m the same state when he d0es shit 1ike that.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 06/05/90 18:13:55
Message Number  5659

Anytime...
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Hijack service 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 20:48:13
Message Number  5660

I've had tofu that ISN'T bad.  Tofu is basically the sponge of the food
world.  If it's done right, which usually involves marinating it in
something strong or otherwise imparting strong flavors to it, it can be
pretty good -- I've had tofu that tastes pretty good in lasagna, stir
fry, and even a pseudo-cheesecake (the consistency and texture was right
but it wasn't quite sweet enough, but that probably wasn't the tofu's
fault).
   If it's done wrong, though, tofu tastes like sponge.  Very few people
are creative enough to keep that from happening, too.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Afterlife mess 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 20:53:37
Message Number  5661

On the contrary, I think Pat MacDonald did a pretty good job with this
BBS, considering he chose the worst language possible to write a
string-intensive application in I can think of, with the exceptions of
Pilot, Logo and Tiny BASIC.  There are a lot of very nice things about
PBBS -- the commands are logical, the response is fast, the formatting
for messages, headers, command prompts, etc. is much nicer than a lot
of other programs, it has a hyper-efficient message storing system,
and all the executables and support files (PBBS, PBBSH, SYSOP and the
control data files) take up less than 80K, not too much more than the
original Greene Machine required (and less if you added the size of
BASIC and its overlays to GM).
   Of course, the stupidest thing about PBBS is what you keep wanting me
to carry over into FOX.  Very odd indeed.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: THRUD               
Subject: Jim Bob Carter 
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:04:12
Message Number  5662

I'm not sure I buy the "economic problems are all the fault of the
previous administration" routine.  Reagan kept saying that, but it was
still during HIS eight years that the national debt rose from several
hundred million to some two TRILLION.  If you project the curve back
into Carter's years, yes, it was starting to climb then, but Reagan
sure didn't make a whole lot of effort to stop it... he just pointed
fingers.  When he could find his fingers, that is.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:06:18
Message Number  5663

You'll have to back that one up a bit.  Even if you can, it's still a
long way from substantiating the claim that we'd have fewer diseases
if it wasn't for modern technology -- the circumstantial evidence is
still strongly against that (like, say, the fact that a lot of
diseases that are almost gone now, or easily treatable, were almost
always fatal 100 years ago, like polio and turberculosis).
 
[Turtle: this isn't discounting your comment on TB; it /is/ still easily
preventable and, if enough people were getting the vaccine, it would be
almost gone by now.  Whatever breakdown may be occuring there, though, i
t wouldn't be easily blamed on modern technology....]
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Oops!          
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:11:26
Message Number  5664

   Sorry the board frotzed on you during your last call: I left the
message disk out of the appropriate drive.  (Hey, so I'm used to running
a board off of a hard drive.)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Movies         
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:16:34
Message Number  5665

No problem - hey that's just right down from where I live.  Remind me
when it's time would ya?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:18:42
Message Number  5666

Actually - _I_ could give a rats fuzzy behind about anyones spelling.
Just like I could care less about how they look or dress.  I just was
making note of the fact that fair or not - people will judge you by
such things.  What is really shitty about the deal is that these 
people are the ones that never had an original thought in their entire
life and got in their position by being corporate sheep.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:21:55
Message Number  5667

You're kidding.... (?) How tuff could it be?  AutoCad has an install
menu that the toughest thing on it is when you have to use and ADI
driver or need to calibrate the mouse/digitizer/printer and that
simply involves measuring a square and fixing the ratio.  Hell,
get a book on AutoCad so you seem like you know what it is and I
GUARANTEE that if you are even semi-lame with a computer you can get
it running - further - if you get stumped *I* will give free advice
and knowledge infusions.  Go get the job.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:27:26
Message Number  5668

True true --- sometimes when you are gifteds with a strange sense of
humor and the moon is full shit just comes out all wrong.  Sveral times
I have been lambasted for something I honestly could not remember saying
(in the context referred to) and when rereading the post was annoyed
to find out - "It's true!  Hoof in mouth strikes again".  Of course
sometimes I just feel bitchy and creative in the same breath and then
wow!  I have a post with a "Dr Foo" who was a fellow hacker at my school
that I consider my personal pinnacle for vitriolic/humorous/witty and
personally devastating prose.  People even posted it on UseNet as
a piece of "humorous" text on hackers (which he was claiming to be 
simply because he pirated software).  I'm with Turtle - I'm damned proud
to be a hacker and no pipsqeek pirate is gonna equate the moniker with
software piracy if I can help it!!!  
Anyway as I was saying before I stirred my own mud - it just depends on
the mood and the media - Angel is right in that we cannot see her
sardonic smile with the half-twist of a lip added as a garnish.  We
have to fill in the timbre - but too often our own mood becomes a player
 
                                   JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Small fib      
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:36:40
Message Number  5669

Understood about the can being opened but I personally believe that
you should be accountable to yourself for yourself.  If you look at
yourself with lung cancer at the age of 50 - crawl away and die but
don't come crying to me for help.  Sorry if it sounds like a rough way
to be but that is where families and friends traditionally come in
not Big Brother in the form of laws to tell you how to live your life.
I mean if we weren't so damned socialist that we figured we had to
take care of everyone even when it's a critical illness, then we 
wouldn't have to worry about these people being a burden on a system
that wouldn't exist.  People call it caring for your fellow man...
I call it the price you pay for letting Big Brother take control of your
life in increasingly petty details.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: PARTY!!!       
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:42:28
Message Number  5670

Pardon my eeg-no-rance senor, what does the video she haf to do weeth
the partee?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:44:23
Message Number  5671

Yup entropy entropy everywhere... look - cockroaches used to be about
18 inches long - now they are munchkins compared to eons of old.  They
are fading awaaaaayyyyy like everything else.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: FemTalk (tm)   
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:46:14
Message Number  5672

Education is the answer.  Unfortunately hysteria is the norm in 
America.  So what if the guys down the street are gay?  So what if
they make out in the front yard?  They are people with a different
bend in life. As such they are a part of the family of man and still
deserve to be treated with a little dignity.  Why in the world someone
elses sexual preference makes any difference to someone else is 
beyond me.  Simply explain to the kiddies that some people are born
(or acquire - the jury's still out) with a sexual desire for the same
sex. Ah hell - I really don't want to get into a gay rights debate 
because it should be a moot point.  Just another incident of someone
saying "this is bad because it's not how I think or act".  I try to
stay away from people like that...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: afterlife      
Date & Time: 06/05/90 21:55:06
Message Number  5673

Exactly (I love it when people think like me <hehehe>)  Studies have in
fact shown that memory is closer to a hologram in its' mechanism.  When
you remove chunks, the image just gets fuzzier as detail is lost but
the image is still there in the holistic sense.  I too get tired of that
old metaphysical dirge on how we have the potential to be so much more.
I liken it to the line about cocaine in the video "Bill Cosby - Himself"
Coke head: Like cocaine *enhances* your personality.
Bill : So what if you are an asshole?
We haven't given a good enough accounting of ourselves to wish we could
do 900% better.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: grammar again  
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:02:46
Message Number  5674

Ah yes but by which media must the idea be expressed?  The Mime' is
eloquent in expressive power using nothing more than the papyrus of
their persona.  Ideas and imagination are not bound and limited by the 
written word.  Only when the written word IS the vehicle should it be
critiqued.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:06:17
Message Number  5675

Ok lets REALLY get rad - what about the theory that all these pampered
and protected bodies have introduced elements into the gene pool that
actually causes us to ever more dependant on our technology.  The 
old way of weeding the infirm out at an early age has usurped the
role of mother nature weeding out the unfit.  What are we becoming?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: PARTY!!!       
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:12:58
Message Number  5676

Actually the pavillions HAVE elecricity.  We took a whole band down t
there and had the old farts really in a sizzle that we could actually
play loud music and have fun.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: MMILLER             
Subject: Apple LISA Sale
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:16:35
Message Number  5677

Just think - this used to be around $7000!!!!!  There is a company
in Utah that refurbs 'em into a Mac wannabe but it costs almost as
much.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: afterfile cont.
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:35:44
Message Number  5678

Well yes - adrenalin can do marvelous stuff when admistered by an MD
thru a 6" hypo directly into the heart before the brain is dead from 
oxygen loss
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: correct        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:37:25
Message Number  5679

Agreed - I for one hope that you have not received the impression that
you were less than intelligent and/or "unworthy" because of spelling.
It was a conversational take-off on the "real-world" which we
try to avoid when a mental breath of fresh air is needed.
	What media do you like to express yourself in artistically?
I've been trying to find someone who knows about Batik.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:40:56
Message Number  5680

Personally - I think that an extreme has been reached where you are
under the impression that you have erred...  I have been on hundreds
(yes really) of boards and haven't seen anything untoward in any of 
your remarks.  They may not make everyone (Donthen in particular)
happy but there are no real "unwritten" rules that are punishable
by crippling your home keys :).  I'm surprised myself at some of the
statements that he has made.  As far as "weedy", I think he was 
referring to the pratice of posting an inflammatory remark and watching
the sparks fly.  Gee, sometimes that's fun and it's up to your personal
standards how provokative you get - I would be ashamed of myself if I
ever posted a remark which could be construed as slamming another
person's ethnic/sexual background.  We are what we are and have to make
do - what we believe however is fair game (to me)  I think Donthhen
objects to the argument structure "I am righteous because"  Well - I
don't because an intelligent person can use this as bait to get someone
involved in a really good discussion.  Unfortunatly sometimes people
get dogmatic as the bait was and then factions destroy any hope for
meaningful dialog.  In my case I reply to posts that appear to carry
on the spirit intended and let the others lapse - in this case with
the religion - i let it die...  there was no progress other than petty
snide remarks that impart nothing of value.  Some people get tired of
these because it can get tedious to wade thru (witness the abortion 
debate) - but - this is reality where people don't always prefer the
same things as others do.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:54:26
Message Number  5681

Well , there ARE several new virulent and flexible strains of
gonorreah(sp?) that are a direct result of modern medicine, Of course
I would classify that as adaptive - not new.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Afterlife con't
Date & Time: 06/05/90 22:58:42
Message Number  5682

Damn!  So *that's * why my disk drives don't do dishes!! Specialization 
rears its' ugly head once more...
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/05/90 23:13:19
Message Number  5683

  Pr0b1ems with babies fr0m pregnant w0men sitting in fr0nt 0f c0mputers
a11 day....
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/06/90 01:28:05
Message Number  5684

I give up.  I've asked for specifics and I get generalities.  In the
original message, what exactly are you considering "extremely
inflammatory"?  The only quoted sentence is a quote I never made.
I am still expressing baffled surprise, and it is quite geniune.
And when did I express surprise that you were hurt?  
>  When you say things that strongly you should not be surprised by
that sort of response.
   Again, what "things"?  Again, back to original message to Turtle...
I used no offensive language; I did not engage in name-calling.  Is
the mere statement that I find something offensive, offensive to you?
   Perhaps these "things" that I am saying are so patently obvious
to you that you have trouble communicating the concept to someone
like myself who is having difficulty grasping it.  I need specifics.
Because, right now, it just seems that I can't see how anything you
are saying applies to me.  I can comprehend how you dislike the
insincere "Who me?"-attitude.  But that is not my attitude; and I
know my own state of mind better than you do.
   If there are no specifics you can give me, than I can only assume
that this whole controversy exists only in a negative interpretation
of what I have said.  
   I am asking for your assistance in this ... genuine, sincere,
non-lieing, anti-copping-out, still-baffled, yet-not-reluctant-to-
admit-still-pissed, despondent, and exasperated, and in need of your
aid.  'Cause the only lesson learned so far is that only happy
emotions can be expressed here, if you are offended; keep your mouth
shut; if you are pissed, don't let anyone know.  And I'm sure that
really isn't the message you are trying to convey to me.  I'm sorry
that you were hurt when I said I was pissed; but I'm not sorry for
my emotions, or the expressing of them.  Saying I am angry because
of your actions (but not angry AT you; that is not a cop-out, there
is a distinct difference) is not an insult.  Nor, do I consider it
an attack.  I know this subject-line is boring to rest of the
(cont...
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/06/90 01:50:05
Message Number  5685

... perhaps we should move this to private mail from now on.  Hopefully,
we can work this out soon.  For the record, I adore you, even when
you get me riled.  May happiness abound.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: grammar again  
Date & Time: 06/06/90 02:07:49
Message Number  5686

>only when the written word IS the vehicle should it be critiqued.
Agreed.  And those who cannot deal with the standards of criticism
should stick to mime.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/06/90 02:10:04
Message Number  5687

>  What are we becoming?
In general, healthier.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/06/90 02:12:59
Message Number  5688

Thank you!  I think you may have just given me a flash of insight
into where Donthen is coming from ... and, oddly enough, I think I'm
coming from the same place.  Will need to investigate.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Trivia!        
Date & Time: 06/06/90 02:54:10
Message Number  5690

> Arnie impales a guy with a big knife, Nailing him into a tree...
 
  Ooooh, I wonder why I ever missed THAT one..
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/06/90 03:02:04
Message Number  5691

  I know everyone's not going to this Trek series, and I know it's still
over a week away, but I did some advance planning, and the instructions 
for what to do June 16th are on Courts of Chaos and Abracadabra BBS... 
if you don't call there, send me mail for details on what's going on. I 
should get a count of how many will be coming.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: Enterprise Down
Date & Time: 06/06/90 15:49:05
Message Number  5692

The Enterprise probably wouldn't /need/ a hook on the front so that
the little Airport Mobile could pull it into the hangar; all it needs
to do is latch onto the Airport Mobile with a tractor beam and let it
drag it right in.
   ...course, it'd tear up the turf really bad, since the Enterprise
doesn't have wheels. Dragging starships around on the lawn is kind of
hard on the grass. A better solution might be to get one of those
dollies that people use to move large objects of furniture around;
you know, the kind with little wheels on it and the thing in front that
you shove under the piano or whatever so you can lift it up and make
it tip over.
              --A concerned Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: Jim Bob Carter 
Date & Time: 06/06/90 15:54:59
Message Number  5693

James Earl Carter was honest and dumb--two fatalities if you're dealing
with the office of the (nominal) head of the (nominally) most powerful
country on the planet. Still, he's one up on Dan Quayle, who's just
dumb; which one would /you/ rather see in the White House??
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Hijack service 
Date & Time: 06/06/90 15:57:46
Message Number  5694

>Tofu is basically the sponge of the food world.
 
Tofu: real pseudo-foodlike substance for real pseudo-people-like
homonids.
 
I'm not convinced that the fact that tofu doesn't taste much like
anything in particular is really an argument in favor of the stuff;
shredded cardboard doesn't taste like very much either, but I still
wouldn't want to marinate it and serve it at a formal dinner, or serve
it to Dan Quayle for that matter. Well, on second thought, maybe I
/would/ serve Dan Quayle shredded marinated cardboard; I'm kind of
vicious that way.
               --A malicious Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Afterlife mess 
Date & Time: 06/06/90 16:01:54
Message Number  5695

You know, I bet PBBS would be better if Patrick MacDonald had written
it in LISP...
 
PBBS's message index system isn't all THAT bad if you write the
message retrieval system to check the integrity of all the links
on the fly and correct 'em if any of 'em get screwed up--that way
small errors don't keep growing and growing until the message file
breaks. There should be a better way to arrange the index records,
though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/06/90 16:06:45
Message Number  5696

Slightly off-topic...I'd really like to see that particular piece of
prose you mentioned re: "Dr Foo".
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Small fib      
Date & Time: 06/06/90 16:08:22
Message Number  5697

You know, your argument could also be used to justify legalization
of /all/ recreational drugs--"you are accountable to yourself for
yourself," and if you end up with cancer or a cocaine-induced heart
attack or whatever, tough. Trouble is, we live in a rather complex
society and there really isn't a good way to isolate one person's
actions from all the people around him. I don't want to share the
road with a person who can't drink responsibly, I don't want the
guy in the cockpit of my passenger liner coked out of his head--and
whenever I spend money, I'm paying for absenteeism, lost time, and
company insurance that goes to pay for the dip on the assembly line
who's smoked himself into chronic bronchitis.
 
Mind you, I'm /not/ suggesting that smoking should be outlawed, or
that we need tighter control (governmental or not) on recreation,
or anything equally silly; I really hate governmental intrusion into
anything, and really don't feel I need somebody watching over me all
the time and telling me what I should and shouldn't do. On the other
hand, I am pointing out that your chain of reasoning is somewhat flawed.
Whether I like it or not, almost all of my actions are going to affect
other people in some way or another; and when you multiply that by
tens of thousands or millions of people who may be doing whatever
boneheaded thing I'm doing, you have quite a significant impact.
 
<Continued>
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/06/90 16:17:07
Message Number  5698

<Continuing>  (Gosh I'm long-winded these days!)
 
Moving right along...I am also vaguely bothered by the implication that
the responsibility to deal with people's health-related problems belongs
not to the government but to the individual's friends and family. This
strikes me as being a particularly suburban white middle-and-upper-class
ethic; people who don't fall into these boundaries frequently don't have
a network of friends and relatives who are capable of assisting them, an
people who don't have any relatives and don't have any network of close
friends don't have anything to fall back on at all. While it can be
argued that that isn't bad--it acts as a form of social Darwinism to
weed out antisocial elements from an increasingly crowded society--I
don't think that's what you were even remotely driving at... :)
 
The United States is the only developed country in the world with
no public health-care structure at all. It is also country with the
most expensive health-care infrastructure in the world, even though
we do not enjoy the highest standard of health care. I think these two
facts may be connected...and whether people like to admit it or not,
health care is something EVERYBODY pays for, regardless of whether it's
done directly (by the government) or indirectly (through higher hospital
bills to offset lost profits when hospitals treat indigent people,
through lower economic growth when people spend money on hospital
care that could go to "hard" goods, through higher insurance prices,
and the like).
             --A pinko liberal hippie comm-YOO-nist Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/06/90 16:27:50
Message Number  5699

The video, she be important to the Furry Party because no Furry Party
is complete without some sort of furry-related video presentation.
Is simple, no?
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Enterprise Down
Date & Time: 06/06/90 16:43:26
Message Number  5700

   Damn it! They (44) put the 01d Star Trek back up f0r a m0nth.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/06/90 16:47:39
Message Number  5701

   S0, why d0 y0u think c0nservatives bec0me c0mmunists? Duh.
 
 
      0H N0!! RETURN 0F THE NAIR SH0RT SH0RTS C0MMERCIA1S!!!!!!!
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/06/90 17:12:42
Message Number  5703

Unfortunately, the AutoCAD job is long past; they found whoever else it
was they found quite some time ago.  Most of the job would have been
putting together PC clones, something I didn't have any experience with
up until the 2 whole days I spent on	 that job (not that it was terribly
mind-numbing activity, just really tedious).  Maybe something else odd
will come along.  Right now I have a pseudo-job at Pelican Press filling
in for their typesetter; it's fun and pays pretty well for an hourly
rate, but it's only about 10 hours a week and will only last for two
months.  I'm also working at RightSoft some of the time, which helps
make up the gap, but have absolutely no idea how long that will last.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/06/90 17:17:57
Message Number  5704

That's not a disease, technically speaking.
    You are guilty of romanticizing the past, ignoring the fact that
in, say, medieval times, life expectancy was around 40 years and about
80% of the population	 died of disease and starvation before the age of
5.  Most people couldn't spell "medicine" (being illiterate, of course),
and even the ones that could had little idea what it really WAS.  The
best herbal remedy is pretty useless against most viral infections.
While I could produce a lot of philosophical and ethical objections to
the methods of modern medicine, I'd have to be wearing blinders not to
realize that for humans (and domestic animals), it's done far more good
than harm.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/06/90 17:24:10
Message Number  5705

June 16th is probably the date everyone's going to be making a trek to
see AKIRA.  Perhaps we should try to plan the Tampa trip for the 17th,
if you're interested in coming along?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Hijack service 
Date & Time: 06/06/90 17:25:28
Message Number  5706

The fact that tofu tastes bland isn't an argument in favor of it; it's
the fact that it is extremely versatile and doesn't have to taste like
cardboard -- and, of course, the fact that it's disgustingly healthy for
you.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Afterlife mess 
Date & Time: 06/06/90 17:26:22
Message Number  5707

....or if you write a new BBS program that doesn't require forward,
backward, header-to-text and text-to-text links in every message.  OSBBS
got along with just a simple text pointer and only "wasted" an average
of 20 bytes per message (text was saved in blocks of 40 characters),
compared to an average of 127 for PBBS, which saves them in blocks of
254.  And, OSBBS was faster for looking up messages; you asked for
message 20, no problem, it was there.  If it had been written in ML or
compiled code, it would have been appreciably faster than PBBS, which
is no slouch itself.
    -- Of course, OSBBS just marked messages as deleted instead of
really removing them, and you needed to run a maintenance program to
free up their space, and the maintenance program required about 10-15
minutes to run and about 50K of workspace on	 the message drive.  I
thought not having to do that with PBBS was a big advantage; after
seeing my system and yours running with it for over a year and about
10,000 messages, many lost messages, lots of unexplained errors and
an average of one catastrophic message base crash every two months, I'm
beginning to think that El Klunko maintenance program may not have been
such a hardship.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/06/90 17:56:47
Message Number  5708

  Rea11y? G00d? Hahaa
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/06/90 17:57:33
Message Number  5709

 Y0.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: -ALL-               
Subject: AR Downloads   
Date & Time: 06/06/90 18:34:50
Message Number  5710

We here at Anarchy Now, Inc. are pleased to announce the addition of
nine new files to the download directory, including a short story by
Angel, a comprehensive guide to determining the differences between
liberals and conservatives, and a file explaining the Great Truths of
Life (tm). Check 'em out!
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: the point      
Date & Time: 06/06/90 19:00:28
Message Number  5711

     Oh, Ok then you should come over for french toast then.
                            :) CRYSTAL :)
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/06/90 19:05:38
Message Number  5712

     Ok Dudes, so who am I to take all these things into consederation
before making a statement like that.
> Was it not the Enterprise that landed in San Francisco?
And before any one says it, yes, it was not a direct quote.  Ok, so
now we got a Klingon ship, in San Francisco, parked.  He had to use a
Klingon vessle, Because the federation does not have a research ship
with a cloaking devise installed, and Kirk is too cheep to pay the 
extra for them to install it.  Ya know kinda like when you go into a
car lot to buy a car.  Well I do, ya know when all you need is something
that has four tires, rear and front bumpers.  You even say Ok, to use an
umpbrella on rainy days.  And you beg them not to make you pay on it for
the rest of your life.  Then they tell you for only X much more money 
you could have a roof too.  They know you want one, because its hard
drive on rainy  days as it is without trying to stear and shift and 
watch for other cars, and hold an umbrella, all at the same time.  So 
you say yes to letting them put a roof on the car.  Then you find out
how much money you have to pay them and you can't even fly it out of 
orbit that same day.  Ya know the more I think about it the more I think
Kirk should have got the Enterprise at a tent sale.  Then the ship he 
would have signed for would have been sold out from underneath him and
he could have got a ship with a cloaking devise in so then he would not 
have had to steal one of Darth Vaders Ships to land in Miami.
                              * CRYSTAL *
    *  *
     '
     @ 
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: THRUD               
Subject: yes            
Date & Time: 06/06/90 19:33:05
Message Number  5713

   As my grandmother always said, "Kill it with cheese."
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Enterprise Down
Date & Time: 06/06/90 20:17:28
Message Number  5714

I'm happy they put Old Star Trek back on -- I like it better!
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: RightSoft...   
Date & Time: 06/06/90 20:18:39
Message Number  5715

Hey, I have a friend whose entire family works there -- They make
RightWriter, eh?
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/06/90 20:20:11
Message Number  5716

So are we definately treking to Tampa to see AKIRA on the 16th?  And
how much should it cost?  Who's going?  (Besides the obvious)  Dan
desires to go along, but he's probably going to be out of state...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: AR Downloads   
Date & Time: 06/06/90 20:23:31
Message Number  5717

I have LHARCed up some messages from a JapAnimation BBS concerning
JapAnimation, Japan, and the Amiga 3000 -- Do U think I should 
upload 'em -- It's only about 50K total...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: the point      
Date & Time: 06/06/90 20:24:56
Message Number  5718

But /my/ French-Toast is better!  :pppp  heheheh  Of course, I've never
had your French Toast.....
===========

From: THRUD               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: grandmothers   
Date & Time: 06/06/90 21:49:14
Message Number  5719

".....maybe you'd like some crushed red pepper ?"
                             Thrud's Grandma
===========

From: THRUD               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: bad baseball   
Date & Time: 06/06/90 21:51:37
Message Number  5720

I believe it was the All-star game a couple of years back (I'm sure
I'll hear about it if I'm wrong about that part) when Ronnie Raygun
sat in with Vin Scully to show off his announcing skills. Now THAT
was embararrissingingsassing. It was sort of like the old Lucy Show
when she says "It's a hit !" and then the sound effect crack of the bat 
sounds. Ronnies timeing and commentary was godawful - makes you almost
appreciate the professional broadcasters - nah. I'm glad he was 
only the leader of the greatest country on earth and didn't often
get the opportunity to louse up a good ball game.
    Incidently, let me be the first to start the rumor that 
Jack Kemp will be Big George's Veep in 1992 and Dan Quale will
be made  ombudsman of the Indiana National Gourd.
===========

From: THRUD               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Ron & George   
Date & Time: 06/06/90 22:01:52
Message Number  5721

When Jim Bob Carter left office, there were three things horribly
wrong with the national economy  (I know there were a million things
wrong, I mean TERRIBLY EXTREMELY HORRIBLY wrong)
      1. Double digit inflation
      2. Widespread unemployment
      3. a growing deficit
When Ronnie Raygun left office there was
      1. a growing deficit
      2. the most intelligent incoming president since RMN
      3. cautious optimism and prayer from
                                       THRUD
===========

From: THRUD               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Enterprise Down
Date & Time: 06/06/90 22:09:46
Message Number  5722

I knew a dolly that liked to move large objects around once....
              no....it was twice.
Damn, if only the Ferengi hadn't kidnapped the cleavage queen et al,
Wesley would have been aboard the Bradley and on his way to his
oral exams and the Acadamy. Well, at least we won't have an acting
ensign saving the ship anymore.    
                       an unconcerned Thrud
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Enterprise Down
Date & Time: 06/07/90 00:16:08
Message Number  5723

 
  I used t0 hate the Next Generati0n, then I watched it with0ut 
   (what the he11 was that! Garbage spew!) studied ST and disc0vered
c}i09
}imseT8)4}4qLvETZ;#
/NP\&pVnUsLYX\+tJ,]LrKDbSnhF
 c0mpared t0 ST:TNG, the acting in the 01d ST....we11, sucked. Every 
damn epis0de 0f ST, kirk was faced with a cha11enge that c0u1d destr0y 
the federati0n 0r the universe. The excepti0ns were idi0tic, 1ike,
as D0nthen put it, the Dippy Hippies. I pers0na11y hated the Ap0110 
epis0de, that chari0ts 0f the g0ds thing is stupid.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: THRUD               
Subject: bad baseball   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 00:25:00
Message Number  5724

 
 Why did y0u refer t0 America as the greatest c0untry 0n earth? Y0u're
n0t a b1ind patri0t, I h0pe.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/07/90 13:58:25
Message Number  5725

> a white-middle-and-upper-class ethic
  It's hardly isolated to that group.  The attitude is almost
universal in Japan.  When I worked for the Senior Friendship Centers
we had contact with a group in Japan that was trying to deal with the
problems of the family-less elderly.  It is standard there that the
family cares for their own elder members; there are almost no services
or avenues of aid for those left on their own.
  Are you equating the term white-middle-and-upper-class
with the term insensitive?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: the point      
Date & Time: 06/07/90 14:28:39
Message Number  5726

That makes sense!  O.K.  Seeing how Friday morning I'll be dragging
myself to school for those last two finals, and Saturday I'll be sitting
on a lake (O.K.  In a boat, on the lake.  Last time I sat on a lake, I
got wet) waiting for some fish to come and eat some fake looking lure (
actually, I'll be reading, or if my walkman comes back to life, 
listening to the radio).  How'z Sunday? (or Saturday evening, or 
whenever).
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/07/90 14:32:40
Message Number  5727

Re: that really long post about the Enterprise and cars with no roofs.
You've been hanging around Turtle for way too long.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: yes            
Date & Time: 06/07/90 14:34:23
Message Number  5728

> As my grandmother always said, "Kill it with cheese."
 
Funny, my grandmother used to say the same thing to my grandfather.
My grandfather being a hitman made it all the more interesting.
 
  ...one Mr. Bob Smith was killed when a one ton block of Colby Jack 
landed on his head.  Police are investigating.  So far, there is no 
evidence but Lt. Ralph Johnson had this to say: "Damn good Colby, what a
waste."
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/07/90 15:31:56
Message Number  5729

> Yo.                  <corrected for English typists>
 
Coincidentally enough, that's the name of a graphic novel which is the
predecessor to Martin Wagner's "Hepcats" comic book.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: RightSoft...   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 15:34:25
Message Number  5730

Yes, they do make RightWriter.  So who's your friend?  I can't think of
any family working there, except possibly the DePrees -- I think his
wife is there, too (somewhere).
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/07/90 15:35:19
Message Number  5731

I think it's about 4 bucks.  Who's going?  Lessee, you, me, Turtle,
Rufus, ... from Tampa, Bart and Wratt.  Beatle wants to go, Raven might
be going, no idea whether Crystal would be interested (much less able
to), and that's it for now.  However, there may be more to come....
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: THRUD               
Subject: Ron & George   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 15:37:41
Message Number  5732

When RR left office, there was also impending financial crisis at the
S&L's that is still tying up billions of federal dollars because of his
administration's wheeling-dealing and a larger percentage of people
living under the poverty level, and a track record showing absolutely
no attempt to control the deficit that increased exponentially under his
terms (except for Gramm-Rudmann, which the administration repeatedly
sabotaged rather than be forced to make its supposedly unavoidable
budget cuts).  There might not have been as many visible signs of
economic hardship, but he still didn't do any better than Carter as far
as money handling goes -- deficits may be abstract to the average
citizen, but unless something is done about our current one real soon
(if it's not too late), we'll be in a recession that will make the
Carter years seem downright hospitable.
    After all, we have concrete proof that the idea of spending borrowed
money and pretending nothing's wrong is going out of style... "The
Donald" may be forced into bankruptcy and "Trump: The Excess" is most
certainly going the way of the dodo bird.  The 80's are over, and even
the most die-hard proponents of "trickle-down economics" are taking
their blinders off.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/07/90 16:20:48
Message Number  5733

Jim! Jim Kirk! This is your father speaking! Surrender to the dark
side of the Force, you hoser. Act now, and I'll even throw in AM/FM
radio, power steering, and a cruise control at no extra cost--and
I'll even toss in landing skids so you don't tear up the turf when
you get towed into the hangar. Crockett and Tubbs can't help you now...
surrender or be faced with car payments FOREVER! Ha ha ha!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: AR Downloads   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 16:27:13
Message Number  5734

Sure, send 'em up!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: bad baseball   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 16:28:21
Message Number  5735

>I'm glad he was only the leader of the greatest country on earth...
 
Ronald Reagan was Swiss?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/07/90 16:33:05
Message Number  5736

Ghi! I wasn't suggesting that that ethic (people should be cared for
exclusively by friends and family) as being /confined/ to the white
middle and upper classes; I'm saying that that ethic is only effective
if it's /applied/ to the white middle and upper classes. In this
country, friends and family of other classes and racial groups are
frequently nonexistant or not in a position to assist. The tightly-knit
nuclear family is the rule rather than the exception in middle-class
America 8although we're working to fix that); and the exception rather
than the rule in the inner city.
 
I wouldn't say most members of the middle and upper classes are
/insensitive,/ but I have noticed that they tend to have a somewhat...
um, narrow world and tend to re-create all of American society in their
own image.
              --An equal-opportunity Turtle
===========

From: THRUD               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: bad baseball   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 16:47:52
Message Number  5737

>Ronald Reagan was Swiss?
There's a lot of holes in that theory. Might edam gouda, eh?
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/07/90 18:40:55
Message Number  5738

    The traffic in Japan is st0pped up f0r mi1es! They need 0ther transp
0rtati0n!
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/07/90 18:44:18
Message Number  5739

  Where can I find that?
 
 
   By the way, any0ne kn0w where I can find an agent (f0r my b00k)
damn im tired
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Ron & George   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 18:47:08
Message Number  5740

 
 I hate r0n f0r the nuc1ear p0wer p1ants. (n0 f10wer j0kes turt1e)
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: bad baseball   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 18:48:51
Message Number  5741

   B00M! I 1iked that 0ne!
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: THRUD               
Subject: bad baseball   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 18:50:04
Message Number  5742

 H0b E N0b
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Enterprise Down
Date & Time: 06/07/90 22:17:25
Message Number  5744

> They put the old Star Trek back up for a month.
 
  I don't like this "musical Treks" thing. I STILL have to get a TNG 
rerun to complete my collection. They have had Original Trek TWICE since
the particular TG episode was on last...
  Can't they make up their mind? Or maybe leave regular Trek daily and 
make TNG weekly? I don't understand their idea here. Also, strangely 
enough, Ch. 36 from Ft. Myers is alternating Treks AT THE SAME TIME AS 
44!! They don't even run the same daily episodes... it's odd to say the 
least...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/07/90 22:21:39
Message Number  5745

> June 16th is probably the date everyone's going to be making a trek to
> see AKIRA.
 
  I knew that. I want to go. The thing is, if the movie is in the 
afternoon, we can do BOTH... I need to know what time the movie starts 
in Tampa... I want to do both on the same day because I'm going to have 
my grandmother visiting, and TWO days away would be a bit rude, but ONE
day to a lot of stuff with friends could pass... Didn't you see my
message asking about AKIRA??
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 22:51:12
Message Number  5746

  I just finished uploading a file to here called "Warp Factors". It 
finished at a whopping 512 blocks on my end.
  My directory says 258, but I guess uploading blocks are different than
directory blocks on my c=64...
 
  Anyway, what the file is is a discussion of warp drive on ships of the
Federation. Rufus wanted me to upload it earlier, and I just got around 
to it now. The real techincal types should love this. It's long, wordy, 
and full of NUMBERS...
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/07/90 23:39:01
Message Number  5747

   If we can d0 b0th,  I want t0 g0.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/07/90 23:39:54
Message Number  5748

   Put it 0n C0urts's Gfi1es t00. I saw an ana1ysis 0f warp in Star10g 
a c0up1e years back.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/08/90 00:44:38
Message Number  5750

> The traffic in Japan is st0pped up f0r miles!
 
What in the he11 d0es this have t0 d0 with anything any0ne e1se was
ta1king ab0ut?  ... they were talking about social problems, and you're
informing us about their space problems.  (I could also point out that
it's a moot point, since most Japanese don't use cars to begin with and
the best-selling car over there is a 2-cylinder jobber -- there just
aren't any long distances to go when you're on one of a group of small
Pacific islands.)
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Yo             
Date & Time: 06/08/90 00:47:56
Message Number  5751

You can order "Yo" through Double Diamond Press.
 
Finding an agent isn't terribly easy.  It's easiest if you're already
published.  For the most part, you have to be recommended to an agent by
one of their established clients.  You are /probably/ better off finding
a company willing to take over-the-transom novels, like Del Rey.
 
I could point out that it might not be a bad idea to put your writing
through workshops, classes, and the like, building into writing a bit
more slowly.  If your work isn't polished enough -- which could mean
anything from being too first-draftish to violating too many technical
rules to having a cliched plot, or even just not being in the standard
manuscript format -- you're likely to get nothing but a form rejection
letter after waiting eight to sixteen months for a reply.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/08/90 00:53:55
Message Number  5752

Problem: I have no idea when the movie starts in Tampa.  I will be able
to find out this weekend (when I'm in Tampa)....
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/08/90 00:54:57
Message Number  5753

Commodore "blocks" on	 the disk are 255 bytes long.  An XMODEM "block"
is 128 bytes long.  Hence the difference.
   As an item of hacker curiosity, most disk blocks -- what most 
computers call sectors -- are a multiple of 128 bytes long.  The CP/M
standard was originally 128-byte sectors, later changed to 256, 512
or 1024, depending on the specific machine's format; TRS-80 DOS's use
256-byte sectors, and MS-DOS generally uses 512-byte sectors.  Question
of the week: if Commodore 64/128 blocks are 255 bytes instead of the
more obvious 256, where did the other byte go?
   (Answer: damned if I know, and I haven't been able to find anyone
else who knows, either.)
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/08/90 01:38:04
Message Number  5754

   I'd say traffic backed up that far is pretty much as0cia1 pr0b1em t00
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: RightSoft...   
Date & Time: 06/08/90 09:32:51
Message Number  5755

My friend's name is Tony Gagnon......
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: AR Downloads   
Date & Time: 06/08/90 09:33:44
Message Number  5756

Okay -- what's the best way to send it?  (ARC, ZOO, LHARC, ZIP, etc..)
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/08/90 11:11:46
Message Number  5757

> I have no idea when the movie starts in Tampa.
 
  PLEASE find out and let me know when you do.
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Great Idea     
Date & Time: 06/08/90 12:00:53
Message Number  5758

     Sunday morning would be great.  What time.
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: AR Downloads   
Date & Time: 06/08/90 12:19:30
Message Number  5759

The best way to send a download is by XMODEM Checksum.  If you want to
know the best way to ARCHIVE it, I'd suggest LHARC.  Turtle will
probably say something different, though.  (ARC is the most universal,
followed by ZIP -- but I can't get things out of all types of ZIP
libraries, whereas I can get them out of LZH, ARC and ZOO files easily.
ZOO is pretty much useless except under Unix and AmigaDOS, and doesn't
save any space over the other ones anyway).
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/08/90 13:46:43
Message Number  5760

>My directory says 258, but I guess uploading blocks are different than
>directory blocks on my c=64...
 
Indeed they are. An XModem block is 128 bytes long. A c=64 disk block
is (get this) /255/ bytes long. Of course, every other computer on
earth that uses sectors approximately that size uses 256 byte sectors;
I'm baffled as to why Commodore format uses 255...Anyway, 128 bytes is
the length of a logical record in CP/M, and XModem originated with CP/M.
There is also an XModem 1K standard that uses 1K blocks, which is kinda
neat since a lot of CP/M formats use physical record sizes of 1K. If
you break the big blocks into little blocks, you get 8 logical blocks
for every physical block, which is a whole lotta blocks. Then you
you scatter 'em all over the floor and Mom gets mad, even though you
explain to her that that's the only way you can find the long, skinny
red ones because they never put enough of those in a bag of blocks
and that's always the kind you need to build a castle.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: AR Downloads   
Date & Time: 06/08/90 13:55:12
Message Number  5762

ARC or ZIP files are preferred if you want to send stuff here, since
most people in the computing universe can deal with both of those
formats. Almost nobody other than Amiga hackers uses Zoo; LHARC
can't always be extracted by everyone; and whatever you do, don't
send me LZC ("vaporized") files. Nobody on Earth except Amiga and Unix
people can deal with LZC, despite the fact that it's an eeensy-teensy
tiny bit more efficient than LHARC and therefore is a good candidate
for the Commpression Technique of the Month (tm) in the Mush world.
===========

From: THRUD               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: bad baseball   
Date & Time: 06/08/90 17:51:06
Message Number  5763

by golly young spellwind, you're going to have to learn to speak in
polysyllables (and I need to learn to spell). Straighten up and fly
right or your mother and I will take away your numeric keypad.
                      Hob E. Thrud
===========

From: THRUD               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/08/90 17:54:52
Message Number  5764

They only have x number of each show available for syndication. When 
they've run thru all the STs, then they should run all the TNG's 
'available', and then back again. Perhaps the one not shown was more
recent and not in syndication yet. One positive aspect is that they're
sure to make tons of TNG, having seen the market value of ST reruns.
Another plus is that now that Wesley is a full ensign, maybe he'll
get laid and quit worrying about space time warp fulcron eptone belizids
and saving the ship all the time.
   Don't you wish TNG was R rated and they could have shown the 
cleavage queen in toto (gofer it turtle) when the Ferengi beamed 
her out of her clothes?
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: untidy afterlif
Date & Time: 06/08/90 19:49:16
Message Number  5765

endorfance (sp?), I have heard about that, I just never associated it 
with muscle capabilities.  And what I had heard about Angel Dust implied
that it raised the adrenalin level.  Well, I was misinformed.  (Shows
you what highschool biology can do for you!)  I whish that they offered
biology at Ringling!  Anyway, I was egzadurating about all the nerons
firing at once just to make a point.  (One should not full around with
intelligent people like that, they will get you every time!)  Someday,
I believe we will be more able to control our bodies to the point 
were we can actively will most diseases away.  (People have done it
with cancer, and other melignant diseases with a positive attidute,
and will power.)  Allthough, I doubt we ever will be able to stop
death completely unless we can figure out prosthetic brains!  Because
there is a general cellure breakdown wich can be slowed but not stopped.
        Say the a body starts out with enough energy to make a person
live for 200 years.  Now, if we were not equipped to have children,
we would be able to use all our energies toward fighting disease, rather
than the energy intensive childbearing routine, we might be able to live
for those 200 years.  With childbearing, we would have a 100 or less
lifespan!.  Take a look at certain mammels who have children every
2 to 10 years.  I think you will find that they have a much longer
lifespan.  In the opposite childbearing arena, look at mayflies.  They
live for only a few weeks at most.  Dying as soon as they breed.  So,
if we can slow down the childbearing process, we could put a lot more
energy into fighting off diseases, thereby living longer, and have a
slight population leveling.  (I know that if people lived longer, then
there would be a greater population, but with controlled breading, it
would soon level off)  It would mean not only survival of the species,
but also a better life!
       And less doctors!
    (Nothing against doctors and lawyers, except for the cost)
A Broke Tree...
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/08/90 20:10:45
Message Number  5766

Perfectionism comes in many ways.  I will not be a one of the corporate
sheep because I cant fit in to any one group (except I do fit in with
those people who do not fit in!)  Anyway, to be original, one has to
go against the grain once in awhile.  That does not mean to break any
laws.  Although, there are some rules, and there will be more, that 
need to be broken.  Anyway, If some coporate lamb or english teacher
judges me soley on my spelling then let that person judge themself.
If they find themselves perfect than I do not need to talk to them,
and they do not need to talk to me.  After all, they are perfect, and
would find it very boring to talk to me or anyone else for that matter.
   Anyway, I wish I had paid more attention in highschool to all the
rules, because by now I would not have trouble with these rules.  But
I didn't, so i will try to be a better speller (and typist!), but I
am not brain dead (most of the time), so don't judge me by my spelling.
(Other wise you would think I was brain dead...)
 
    Climbing the ladder of life
      And trying not to step on anyone,
         Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: afterlife cont.
Date & Time: 06/08/90 20:22:38
Message Number  5767

    You should not believe that doctors can do everything.  They can
do some wonderfull stuff... but the bodies own immune system is so
much more wornderfull, as is the brain!  I don't think that the only
way for the body to get adrenalin is from an external source.  You
could probably use a every known instrument to save a person, and they
could still die with enough will.  (of course mechanical means such
can be used to keep the blood oxygenated, and pumping through the body,
but that is only a tempory messure.  The machine can always be unpluged,
we can't be (for the most part))
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: express        
Date & Time: 06/08/90 20:29:43
Message Number  5768

  Batik, I know of one girl who does quite well at school and can batik
some quite beautifull pictures.  (I hope that batiking is the dying of
cloth over wax, cause if it isn't then she doesn't and I don't)  Any
way, I love to draw, and I paint with watercolors, oils and guasche.
I paint and draw in a large format, and someday I hope that they perfect
LCD displays so that they can be flat and as large as a wall (what a
wonderfull media to work with - electronic)  I have done some sculpture
which I enjoyed the process, but did not like the finished product!
    
        A colorfull tree
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: BBS LIST       
Date & Time: 06/08/90 22:36:56
Message Number  5769

  Chipper C1ipper: 754-5677 1200 baud.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: afterlife cont.
Date & Time: 06/08/90 22:39:58
Message Number  5770

   H0w ab0ut Dr. Death, the guy that made that suicide machine and 1et
a w0man with a1zheimer's (sp?) use it.
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: after Death    
Date & Time: 06/09/90 00:36:10
Message Number  5771

Hmmm, depends on how you view suicide.  I would say that I do not know
of one christian religion which does not say that suicide is a mortal
sin (ie, you will go to hell!)... now, could not Jesus dying on a cross
be considered suicide?  He had powers and his father had powers by
which he did not have to die on a cross... Is this suicide?  He chose
to die for us (if this is what you believe)... (I personally don't know,
I would be gratefull if there was a logical answer to this) Now, this
is why I can't handle most religeons-- too many loopholes!  So, if one
were to throw out the religeous aspect, then people should have the 
right to take their own life.  And as far as Dr. Death (as you call him)
(I can't remember his name either) is concerned, he did nothing wrong.
If you blame him for developing the suicide machine, then you have to
blame the original maker of a gun for every suicide that has ever
been done with a gun!       ^the
     As far as I am concerned, the suicide machine is a safe and
effective means of dying (It won't make yu a vegetable nor will it
put you in a mental institution).  I do not believe that suicide should
be even conteplated, much less have help doing for a person who is 
drunk, insane, or not in control of themselves... (Same as a will, sound
mind and body)  There is also something called a living will..  It means
that if you die, or are dying, and you have a living will, the doctor
and or paramedics will not try and revive you.  In this I believe whole
heartedly.
      Suicide is rarely the right answer, but in certain cases it should
be allowed.  Just like the death penalty is allowed in some states.
      Give me freedom,
        Or at least give me a fresh pop-tart
           Tree
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Okay--         
Date & Time: 06/09/90 14:05:04
Message Number  5773

I'm going to send the files LHARC sice I can't find anything to 
compress an archive -- Just decompress....
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/09/90 16:03:13
Message Number  5774

  The episode I need IS in the syndication. All episodes INCLUDING new 
ones are in syndication (NOT on Fox as some believe) anyway. What they 
have been doing with ST and TNG is running some and then in the middle 
of the episode set, they switch to a mid-season episode of the other, do
the other show for a while and switch back and say "TNG returns Monday!!
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/09/90 17:50:53
Message Number  5775

This is at the Tampa Thearte?  Will we be going on Saturday?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/09/90 17:55:30
Message Number  5776

Much thanks for uploading the file.  I'll go and DL sometime soon.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/09/90 17:57:37
Message Number  5777

All those extra bytes from the C 64/128 are being used the build a
supercomputer out of the socks you lose in the dryer.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: Great Idea     
Date & Time: 06/09/90 17:58:52
Message Number  5778

Oh boy, I have no idea.  Right now I don't know what's happening to 
my body on Sunday (my brain will be off somewhere, but I could be
out mountain biking [which, with no mountains within a few hundred miles
is very hard], or racing cars, or, space aliens could let me help them
untransreverse Ken Obers brain).  How about a weekday of some sort??
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: THRUD               
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/09/90 18:03:48
Message Number  5779

>Don't you wish TNG was R rated and they could have shown the
>cleavage queen in toto...
 
Yes.  I like how the Ferengi operate.
 
On another note.  What happens when you transport someone into a 
wall?  I assume they die because a wall in you would not be healthy.
Now, what happens when you transport someone into a sandstorm (like
in ST II)?  Wouldn't that be unsafe?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/09/90 19:13:32
Message Number  5780

I'll put it on the "when I ever take the Apple out of the box and hook
it up I should get this for Turtle" list.  I didn't forget about droppin
the stuff off at your place. I worked late due to "design changes" thta
involved major data structure revision on my code.  Sighhhh  Bright
Point of the Week!!!  I just got Turbo C++ and -- WOW!  Somebody finally
made a good platform for programming projects!!!  I'm ecstatic and
wildly delirious... can I code any better ?   Nahhhhhhh.....
But I *am* faster!
	                                   JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Small fib      
Date & Time: 06/09/90 19:18:08
Message Number  5781

Hmmmm - you wanna re-read your post and point out which of the maladies
that you would *not* like to see that isn't here right now?  You already
share the hiways, byways and flyways with millions of irresponsible
people.  As far as you paying the tab - read my post again.  You play...
YOU pay.  I feel that insurance is the biggest scam before or since
Dianetics.  Why should you insure morons?  That's just like a socialist
plan to save the dumb bastard from the fruits of his stupidity.
As far as drugs being legal - why not?  Time and time again the studies
show that the REAL problem is education and awareness.  Hell what can
you say about kids getting high on Toulene?  They banned airplane glue
sales to minors for awhile!!  Big friggin deal!!!!  The attitude those
kids had was the problem to begin with - not the damned Tolulene.
SO what do we do?  Ou government in it's ever-broadening quest for more
strings on the populace of potential puppets makes a mega force DEA and
gives 'em lots of guns, boats, planes, radars and legal powers that 
boggle the mind - for what?  To keep certain alkaloids and their chemica
derivatives out of the hands of a group of people that are hell bent on
self-destruction anyway.  The real vicious loop is the high price the
stuff commands (from being illegal) that allows the successful dealer
to have an enviable lifestyle to the fellow inner-city inhabitants who
figure that this is where the real money and success is to be made by
people in their social strata.  Take out the big bucks and make it 
available to anyone and *poof* the mystique and attraction are gone.
		                  An Education-is-the-best-weapon JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/09/90 19:34:42
Message Number  5782

Gee!  You weren't finished... how nice!  We bitch, piss and moan about
the high cost of health care and taxes now!  Would you care to 
investigate what the tax structure is in these countries that you so 
admire?  (Hint: Denmark > 50% taxes!)  And to boot the supposed equal
standing for all is a joke - you got more clout you get better service
is the rule.  Also - why in the hell are we such a sickly crowd anyway?
Could it be that our giant farm/industrial complex isn't doing such a
wonderful job of putting REAL nutrition into our bodies? Just about
any food that you care to name reads like a Jr Chemistry set - nuch
less the carbohydrate chains that Mother Nature INTENDED should nourish 
and build our bodies.  Fact:  Europesan countries have a more extensive
medical care setup for their citizens.  Fact:  They use them less 
because they are generally healthier in their eating habits than we are.
Fact: Even though they use them less their tax rates are FAR in excess
of ours even with our extensive military budget to feed.  So what's so
wonderful about that?
                            An Unimpressed JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/09/90 19:44:09
Message Number  5783

Hexplain why eess eemportant pleyusss.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/09/90 19:45:35
Message Number  5784

I believe they are hiring in the thermistor department at Hi-Stat.  It
isn't the most challenging job at first but it is a foot in the door.
There will be major opportunities for SPC in manufacturing with computer
control soon.  The thermistor department is expecting extreme growth so
it would be a decent thing to be in first on with promotions and such.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/09/90 19:48:20
Message Number  5785

Hmmm well, our best "modern" medicine doesn't do too well on viral
infections either.  Were you aware that the best we can do is to put it 
in remission?  ANY virus...  Also - many respectable scientists are goin
back to nature to find what many ancient herbologists knew - plants can
in fact effect cures and remidies for many illnesses that have baffled
doctors for years.  My personal opinion of the "average" doctor is that
he has at best a 10% advantage over a witchdoctor or shaman in the same
room and I would PROBABLY prefer their company!
Ok to play devils advocate:
MSG - food flavor enhancer - source of the sometimes fatal Chinese 
       Restaurant syndrome.
Thalidomide babies: enuf said of a real tragedy.
IUD's : birth control touted as "extremely effective and safe" by the
        modern medical community.  They are still reeling from the
        damages inflicted on females by this device.
While not exactly diseases - they are indications that our doctors are
sometimes no better than fools drunk with their own importance and 
infallibility.  Modern medicine!  Most of the "advances" that we have
made are ones of hygiene and not of any miraculous wonder drugs.  Every
year they come out with something new and the doctors prescribe it 
simply because it is new with no thought as to it's effects.  There is
usually a shotgun approach in the medication just so all bases are 
covered.  I personally have been prescibed a drug that was used for
a gram negative bacterial infection when the problem was diagnosed as
viral!!!!  But the doctor assured me that this was being used to treat
it.  What I did was a: never went to a doctor ever again if I can help
it by trying to eat right and stay healthy b: Made some chicken soup
with lots of garlic and cayenne pepper.  Sweated for about 1 hour and
felt fine the next morning.  Bah!  doctors.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/09/90 20:13:24
Message Number  5786

0 (zero) is a number too and starts the block count.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: untidy afterlif
Date & Time: 06/09/90 20:16:27
Message Number  5787

Ok here's an exception - the lowly 17 year locust (which we call a 
cicada and is heard going Reee REEEEE  RREREEEEEEE RREEEEEEEEEEEEE in
the trees this time of year) spends 17 years in the ground under the
tree it eggs wre laid under as a larva and pupae.  When it emerges
and becomes an adult cicada it lives for exactly 3 weeks to breed and
die.
                        Back to Nature JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/09/90 20:20:18
Message Number  5788

You missed the boat - the point of my epistle WAS to tell you that I
DO NOT judge you on your spelling.
:)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: express        
Date & Time: 06/09/90 20:22:15
Message Number  5789

I think I met that young lady at the last exhibit that was at Sarasota
Quay a month or so ago.  She in fact , was impressive.  There was also
an artist that I very much admired her work because her cards looked 
so - so - well... girlish but yet her painting evoked such raw emotions
that I could feel my heartrate go up just looking at one.  I was 
intrigued by the contrast because her paintings were very ANGRY.  Her
name was Tippin.
   Ask this person that does the batik if there is a text that I could
get that describes the technique - pretty please???
 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: after Death    
Date & Time: 06/09/90 20:27:08
Message Number  5790

Man, some of you people have weird ideas about the word SIN.  All sin
is - is something that you are not supposed to do.  It is NOT a guaran-
teed passport to hell or a certificate of perversity.  Ok - bring out
the blinders it's it's <<< OH NO >>> a Bible verse but I won't tell you
where so you won't feel obliged to look it up:
For ALL men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Gee that wasn't too hard and it makes you even feel kinda normal knowing
that even the greatest heroes of the Bible sinned on a regular basis.
Anyone look up the think about Lot's daughters?
 
                             A Bible-thumpin JonBoy!!
===========

From: MMILLER             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Coherent       
Date & Time: 06/09/90 21:02:32
Message Number  5791

Just thought I'd let you know my first impression of Mark Williams
new UN*X clone, COHERENT.  I've only had it up and running for about
two days, but here's what I've found so far.  First of all,
installation was a breeze.  I gave it an 11 meg partition and it only
used about 6 meg and that includes the on-line manual and spell 
checker!
The package seems to fairly complete.  It includes a C compiler (K&R
only, not ANSI and only SMALL model), MicroEMACS, nroff, awk, uucp and
a host of other utilities.  There is a kermit comm. program also.  This
is a much better OS than I had expected for $100.  Mark Williams claims
that COHERENT is very System V compatible and from what I've seen that
appears to be the case.  My only complaint is that their implementation
of MicroEMACS is a bit on the anemic side.  Oh yeah, and I wish the C
compiler supported some other memory models on Intels brain-dead
segmented memory scheme.  Anyone else out there playing with COHERENT
yet?  I've used other REAL UN*X systems and I can't tell a lot of
difference yet.  Oh, by the way, COHERENT was wriitten from scratch so
that Mark Williams could avoid the hefty licensing fees from AT&T and
so that it would run on 286 machines with 640k.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: after Death    
Date & Time: 06/09/90 21:44:41
Message Number  5792

  I hate when pe0p1e ta1k ab0ut christ t0 me. I think it's acr0ck.
 I'm f0r the Mercy ki11ing, against death pena1ty.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/09/90 21:47:37
Message Number  5793

  Besides thew fact y0u'd have sand in a11 y0ur 0rgans, Naaah.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: C0ws           
Date & Time: 06/09/90 21:49:48
Message Number  5794

  H0w, 'b0ut that h0rm0ne they want t0 give c0ws f0r m0re mi1k
 
 H0w 'b0ut them cubs.
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Whorf          
Date & Time: 06/09/90 23:36:17
Message Number  5795

Turtle,
   You are commenting on a subject I have never broached.  I dont /care/
whether Kirk was captain kickass or not...I was replying to someone
else's comments re: Whorf.  Personally, I think ST displays an amazing
lack of advisement re: military protocal ( which accounts for 99.9%
of the stupid shit Kirk does ).  But the subject at hand is Whorf's
pugulistic abilities which, in the final analysis suck.
                              The Yngling
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Great Idea     
Date & Time: 06/10/90 00:32:19
Message Number  5796

Let me know and then I will give you my work scheduel.  How does that 
sound.
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Trek movies    
Date & Time: 06/10/90 02:09:52
Message Number  5797

As far as I know.  I still don't know when it's playing, though.  We can
always buy the Tampa Tribune this Friday and find out fur sure....
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/10/90 02:14:25
Message Number  5798

> 0 (zero) is a number too and starts the block count.
 
Yes, I know.  If this is in regard to C= computers and file transfers,
when I said they had 255 bytes in a disk block, that's exactly what I
meant, not that they had 256 bytes numbered 0 to 255.
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: *ALL*               
Subject: Akira & Stuff  
Date & Time: 06/10/90 12:56:12
Message Number  5800

Okay, I will be leaving town until about Thursday or Friday..My BBS
will still be up and people can leave me mail if they have any
questions...
 
I believe the plan is that we are going to see Akira sometime 
Saturday -- Only Donthen knows the true time ON Saturday it 
starts!  :)  Anyways, as far as I know, I am driving, and bringing
Rufus & Zot Gnop along -- This leaves room for 2 more people to get
a ride from me -- I believe Donthen is also driving, or someone
else -- Anyways, I'd like this..
 
(1)  Donthen -- Please E-Mail me the details of what we are doing...
     (OR Turtle can send me mail if he knows what's going on)
(2)  If anyone wants a ride, PLEASE send me E-Mail before Thursday,
     or better yet, send Rufus mail so that he can work out who is
     getting a ride from me....Anyways, live long and prosper....
 
-Ken Ober-
 
CALL THE ABRACADABRA BBS!  813/378-2218  8-N-1-1200  Sarasota, Fl
 
Oh -- BTW...I got word from the author of Paragon...The reason it isn't
in yet is because he's waiting for V 2.07 to be completed, he said he
could send me 2.03 if I needed it ASAP -- I told him to wait for 2.07
I also inquired about the FIDONET question -- he said "It is POSSIBLE,
but it would be a Herculan task."  He believes a limited (2 or 3) echo
situation can be set up by cutting down the node list to the smallest
size possible -- He warned me that it would be slow since I am running
off of floppies, tho....But what I am going to do is use a program on
my BBS disks ATLEAST once a week that blitzes them into running up to
500% faster -- This should be of some help....Anyways, see everyone
when I get back...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: Trek runs      
Date & Time: 06/10/90 19:36:28
Message Number  5801

Now that Wesley's a full ensign, I suspect he's much more likely to
get eaten by a rabid wombat than to get laid and get a life. If anything
the little pipsqueek's probably going to take his miscellaneous duties
as General Ship Savior (tm) even more seriously than before...
 
...when did the Ferengi beam Troi out of her clothes??!! I musta missed
that one! I knew there was some reason I should become a couch potato!
(Hey, do you think maybe in the Next Generation movie...?? Naah, never
mind.)
             --A Next Generation Turtle
  
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/10/90 19:50:22
Message Number  5802

When you download the file, please bear in mind that it is now 66K
rather than 64K as the file description states, and will take a
considerable amount of time. Beatle uploaded it in PETASCII; I had
to write a program to translate it into ASCII and add linefeeds after
all the carriage returns for people without C= machines. If you don't
require linefeeds after CR's, then the file will appear to be double-
spaced to you; you'll have to remove all the LF's from it before you
try to read it.
                --An EBCDIC Turtle (HA! Just kidding! I hate EBCDIC!)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Small fib      
Date & Time: 06/10/90 19:55:15
Message Number  5803

While I may be forced to share the highway with the occasional drunk
and cokehead as it is, I'm really somewhat suspicious that the number
of 'em won't significantly increase if hard drugs are legalized. I
don't see any problem with legalizing drugs like pot--hell, it's a
safer intoxicant than alcohol!--but selling heroin in the local
drugstore and then saying "don't worry, we'll educate everyone so it
won't be a problem" seems like a kind of insane course of action to
me. Do you really think that problems with drug abuse will lessen
if you can go down to the local Circle-K and buy a hit of crack for
$1.95?
 
On the other hand, the money we're spending to keep it out of the 
country isn't doing two shit's worth of good (obviously--the price
of coke in Miami is STILL going down!), so interdiction isn't an
answer either. Perhaps keep drugs illegal AND spend money on
education rather than wasting it on interdiction? I'm eager
to hear anyone's solutions, although I'm not really keen on the
"make 'em legal and cross your fingers" approach.
                --A skeptical Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Small fib con't
Date & Time: 06/10/90 20:03:43
Message Number  5804

Yes, the tax structure in a number of European countries is rather
outrageous compared to that in this country, but I'm not convinced
that that's due strictly to the fact that those countries have public
health care. (That's kind of misleading, too...if taxes here were higher
but we had public health care, we wouldn't have to spend anything on
medical insurance and similar expenses; I wonder what teh REAL net
economic impact would be?) In any event, I'm not proposing to model
a system of public health care after Denmark's or to force the hapless
John Q. Public to shell out twice as much to Uncle Sam as he does now.
However, considering that Uncle Sam has a great deal of my money
as it is, I'd rather it be spent to, say, make American cities
less closely resemble Lebanon than to purchase, say, large and
obscenely expensive bombers that are awkward, slow, not radar-invisible,
and cost literally more than their own weight in gold. The money that
certain factions of the militart/industrial complex would like to see
getting blown on the aformentioned flying elephants could quite nicely
clean up a few of America's more embarrassing messes, and it wouldn't
be completely lost when some yoyo teaching his kid how to shoot a .22
rifle accidentally shoots down the most amazing piece of flying hardware
on earth.
              --A rational Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/10/90 20:11:21
Message Number  5805

A video device is important to a furry party because a party doesn't
become furry until some form of furry entertainment is present. (Mind
you, the entertainment is necessary but not sufficient to make a party
furry...it's all very metaphysical.)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Doctalk        
Date & Time: 06/10/90 20:13:47
Message Number  5806

>Bah! Doctors.
 
If I have a severe streptococci infection, I'll take penecillin or
E-mycin over chicken soup every day. It's easy to exaggerate the
effectiveness of modern medical treatments, sure, but it's also real
easy to go overboard the other way; diseases that were almost inevidably
fatal even sixty years ago are fairly trivial today. Personally, I'll
take the doctor with the obnoxious attitude over the shaman with a
lot of enthusiasm but very little else.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: after Death    
Date & Time: 06/10/90 20:18:08
Message Number  5807

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of Bob...but that's
okay, he doesn't mind. Bob, you see, can sin right along with the 
best of 'em.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: MMILLER             
Subject: Coherent       
Date & Time: 06/10/90 20:20:12
Message Number  5808

When are they going to port COHERENT over to Z-System? :)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Worf           
Date & Time: 06/10/90 20:21:19
Message Number  5809

Well, good fighter or no, at least Worf never has to look too far
for a Halloween costume! /I/ wouldn't want to try to fight him,
though.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/10/90 23:07:57
Message Number  5810

  Did s0me0ne insinuate the p0ssibi1ity 0f a party?
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Trek runs      
Date & Time: 06/10/90 23:41:59
Message Number  5811

 > when did the Ferengi beam Troi out of her clothes?
 
  It was in the latest Lwaxana Troi episode, "Menage A Troi". The 
Ferengi put Troi and her mother in a cell with Riker, and since they
don't think females deserve the "honor" of clothes, they beam them in to
question them without clothes. Thank god they left Riker in the cell!!
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/10/90 23:44:46
Message Number  5812

  Sorry about the file. I had NO idea what to do with it since it was 
Pet ASCII. I wish the C= did some good stuff with regular ASCII, but 
alas, I am stuck until I can afford something better. I can't even read 
"FurBytes" since I don't have anything that will convert ASCII and take 
out all control codes and leave the capital letters intact... ah welll.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/10/90 23:49:57
Message Number  5813

 Well, it looks as if the controversy over the group 2 Live Crew. Not 
only is there now further court problems over the album "As Nasty as 
They Want to Be" but now the group has been ARRESTED! I don't like their
"music" but I do favor the right for people to listen to it. The heart 
of the matter lies with the interpretation of "obscenity"... Now wht
does the law define as "obscene"??? I would REALLY like to know.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: oops           
Date & Time: 06/10/90 23:53:54
Message Number  5814

  I know, the first sentence of that last message is a fragment. You all
know what I was getting at, don't you??
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/10/90 23:58:38
Message Number  5815

How far 'back' would you take us? 'Til we're one celled creatures again?
I think we're really screwing this place up, but we have the potential
to really do something GOOD here. I read once that the cost over-runs
(NOT the actual cost, but just the 'over-budget' stuff) for one year
in the military program for the Nike-Hercules missle project (I believe
the year was '72) was MORE $money$ then we have spent on the entire
history of NASA. Just think what we could do if we spent our money on
trying to live together rather then kill each other......ssssssh*t..
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/11/90 00:04:32
Message Number  5817

Last time I was up there I think it would be about a 50 mile commute
just to get to a decent place to live. There are some nice places closer
, but you had better be willing (and able) to fork out $300K minimum....
not on $50K a year.......noper
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: rally?         
Date & Time: 06/11/90 00:07:03
Message Number  5818

   Yup, the rally trip is a TEAM effort, you either win or loose (or
just have a damn good time) as a TEAM. Individuals should stay home, 
(or maybe they could man the HELP lines....haha).
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/11/90 00:11:03
Message Number  5819

How would you know you have done a successful installation of AutoCAD
if you didn't know how it is supposed to operate???.....strange, these
humans.........
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/11/90 00:13:58
Message Number  5820

It would just seem a little rediculous to cause your own race's 
extinction. THAT would (probably) be a first (and maybe a last). 
Maybe some mutated form of human would take over the planet and
run things right, equality for all life, respect for other creatures
and the planet we live on, quality living with nature and Mother Earth,
planning for the conquest of advanced goals in science and industry and
in the advancement of the 'good life'............nawwwwwwwww
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: FemTalk (tm)   
Date & Time: 06/11/90 00:17:37
Message Number  5821

I just will admitt to being uncomfortable about it and not very
understanding of it. I don't buy the argument that it is a 'natural' 
act and many other species of animals practice it so we should as well.
My daughter had hampsters that had offspring which the mother decided
to have for lunch one day....hey! a natural act, we should allow it,
too. Incest was very prominent....hey! another natural act! Don't like
the way your kids are.....hey, take 'em out...make more! I think I
can face my children's questions about it....I just don't think I have
any good answers. My kids are faced with a world of child kidnapping
galour, child rape, child murder and tourture, early childhood drug 
and alcohol addiction, AIDS, and a host of other things that I don't
particularly care to throw in the face of a first or second grader.
I can try my best to let them know how to protect themselves from
being on a milk carton, but I don't have the answers when they ask me
'why' people do those things. I guess the homosexual issue would fall
in theat same gray area.......a sssssssssstimied parental SNAKEBYTE.  .
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IQ & Courts... 
Date & Time: 06/11/90 00:25:45
Message Number  5822

Too many folks out there think testing your IQ is like testing
your temperature. Well, I guess it would be if all you had to go off
of was someone's opinion of your temp by looking at you through a
screen door from across the street. And a different person gave you
their opinion each year.....
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/11/90 00:30:28
Message Number  5823

You're welcome (I guess). What does C.C.A. stand for (or is it
something we should inquire about)?
  ssssssssssS.N.A.K.E.B.Y.T.E.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/11/90 09:01:08
Message Number  5824

   Ancient Sumer. Bef0re war.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/11/90 09:15:31
Message Number  5825

Although the furry entertainment in question	 could be, in addition	 to
videotapes and other electronic media, sketches, photocopies, story
readings (I haven't heard of this one but it seems possible, neh?),
on-the-spot sketches, odd soft drinks and/or alcohol, juggling foxes,
and Omaha.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Trek runs      
Date & Time: 06/11/90 09:18:28
Message Number  5826

> ...Thank god they left Riker in the cell!!
 
Although Riker probably wouldn't agree with that sentiment.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/11/90 09:19:02
Message Number  5827

FurBytes doesn't have any control codes except for imbedded backspaces.
If your printer has the ability to process ASCII codes, you can just do
a dump of it that way -- it's supposed to be printed out anyway.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/11/90 09:20:49
Message Number  5828

I've worked with CAD programs before, just not AutoCAD (and not on a
regular basis).  And, it doesn't take a CAD genius, or even one who's
particularly competent with the program, to get into a drawing mode, see
if the graphic tablet is working, see if it's displayed correctly on	 th
monitor, doodle something (or load a test document) and see if it can be
sent correctly to all the hard copy devices on	 the system.  You don't
need to know a damn thing about "PageMaker" to test it, beyond being
able to select a few leading commands like "Print... (^P)" from the
appropriate menu.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Trek runs      
Date & Time: 06/11/90 10:01:14
Message Number  5830

>...when did the Ferengi beam Troi out of her clothes??!!
 
Troi and her mother (who's not that shabby).  You missed it.  Geesh!
Partial rear nudity.
 
  ...talk about a nice pair of shoulder blades.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/11/90 10:03:06
Message Number  5831

>When you download the file...
 
Your to late.  I've already got it.  Now I shall rule the world!!
 
  ...now, I hook one end of these wires up to Mountain Dew, the other
end to a nuclear reactor.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/11/90 10:08:29
Message Number  5832

    It really ticks me off when someone writes a letter to the editor
saying "We should stop spending money on space exploration and spend it
on _____."  No one seems to realize that the military spending is much,
much more than that for NASA.  Sigh....
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: PETASCII & You 
Date & Time: 06/11/90 17:48:45
Message Number  5834

If you know anything about programming in BASIC, it should be really
easy to write a program that will convert between PETASCII and
standard ASCII. To go from ASCII to PETASCII, all you need to do
is open the file to translate and create a new file for the PETASCII
stuff. Then, read the characters in one at a time from the input
file. If the ASCII value of the character is 10 (that's a linefeed),
throw it away and get the next character. If the value is between
65 and 90 (these are upperase ASCII letters), add 128 to the value
and put the new character into the output file. If the value is
between 97 and 122 (these are lowercase ASCII letters), subtract 32
from the value and put the new character into the output file. I don't
know how C= machines handle files or anything like that, but here's
pseudocode to do it:
Get the character;
A=ASC (character);       <--Put the value of the character in A here
If a=10 then loop back to the beginning;
otherwise, if a>=65 and a<=90 then A=A+128
           else if a>=97 and a<=122 then a=a-32;
write CHR$(A) to the output file;
loop back to the beginning
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/11/90 17:56:32
Message Number  5835

The legal definition of "obscene" (are you ready for this?) is
"that which violates the community's standard of decency."
How's that for a clear-cut, precise definition? Aah, the keen,
razor-sharp insight of our lawmakers...
 
At any rate, the controversy ovr "2 Live Crew" is /really/ starting
to piss me off. Some counties are actually sending undercover deputies
into record stores to try to buy the album, and if the clerk sells it to
them he gets arrested. I thought this sort of shit only happened in
places like Kentucky -- you know, states where it's practically a
crime to smuggle books into the state (assuming anyone there knows
what a book is). Time magazine had an interesting comment to make
about the whole 2 Live Crew thing, in their typical underhanded
way; the brief article appeared in one of their recent issues about
Governor Martinez, and had a paragraph that ran something like "Since
his attempt to pass stricter abortion laws backfired and Martinez
has steadily lost popularity and credibility with members of both
parties, he has attempted to improve his image by attacking an unlikely
target: the rap group 2 Live Crew. Martinez seems to feel that if he
can make a show as a force for morality, he can shed his weak and
indecisive image and gain popularity with Florida's older, conservative
population." So, thank you, Governor Martinez, for your selfless
dedication to the cause of re-establishing the moral values of this
great state.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Money talks    
Date & Time: 06/11/90 18:04:31
Message Number  5836

I'm always baffled whenever I see some random group of assorted oddballs
wandering around saying things like "Why are we spending so much money
on space exploration when we have so many problems down here?" and
"Why isn't that money going whhere it can do some good, like for
Program X?" I really don't think these people are aware that NASA's
annual budget is less than one-half of one percent of the military's
annual budget--or if they are, that fact doesn't seem to mean diddly
to them. I particularly love when they start complaining that all that
space money is utterly wasted and doesn't help anyone--generally over
dinner (you know, cheese sandwiches cooked in a Teflon-coated frying
pan and leftovers heated int eh microwave), just before picking up
Junior in their new Firebird (you know, the one with the computer-
controlled tuned-port fuel-injected engine) from his computer
programming class (he's hoping to get a job in electronics
engineering when he grows up) so they can visit Grandma in the hospital
(she's going to be released if the last CAT scan results are
encouraging, you see.) Still, they do have a point; after all, what
good do a bunch of stupid moon rocks actually do anyone?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Not FemTalk    
Date & Time: 06/11/90 18:12:31
Message Number  5837

I'm not aware of anyone who's advocating homosexuality on the grounds
that it's natural and should therefore be allowed, although I /am/
aware that some people think it should NOT be permitted on the
grounds that it's "unnatural" (as if you could really legislate it
out of existance, and as if, say, city dwelling is natural); to these
people I would say if your definition of "natural" is "that which
occurs in nature," then homosexuality is natural by definition.
   I hope you aren't seriously placing homosexuality and eating one's
children on the same plane; yes, both of them occur in nature, but
one of them occurs between consenting individuals and does not
cause harm to innocent bystanders, and the other doesn't. I'll leave it
to you to decide which one is which, and whether or not this difference
is significant.
   I also don't see why you are making homosexuality into a "we must
protect our children" issue. It's certainly a good idea to let
children know about the hazards of taking candy from strangers, but
what on earth does that have to do with explaining that not everyone
has the same sexual habits? You mentioned the need to protect them from
AIDS--do you think they will contract it by being told that homo-
sexuality exists? That isn't an issue unless they are sexually active,
in which case they absolutely need to be told about that possibility,
regardless of their sexual orientation.
   It still sounds to me like what you're saying is "I'm uncomfortable
with this thing; therefore, it should not be permitted." In the end,
though, trying to prohibit homosexuality (or oral sex, or female-astride
intercourse, or what have you) is an absurdity. You can do just as well
passing a law prohibiting droughts or floods...in the end, you only
make a mockery of the law. Regardless, this thing exists, sooner or
later your children WILL be exposed to it; deal with it. Hey, nobody
ever said being a parent was easy!
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Warp Factors   
Date & Time: 06/11/90 19:10:46
Message Number  5838

 > I already go it.
 
  Please give me some comments on it... like whether you got past the 
first page.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/11/90 19:13:34
Message Number  5839

 Thank you, I knew you'd know the law's definition... and /I/ believe 
that they aren't even FOLLOWING
that definition... How many people have stood up to say "This violates 
my morals"? Not as many as those who stood up to say "This DOESN'T 
violate my morals". NOBODY would have even HEARD of the group if the
governor hadn't gotten up on his soapbox and said I want this filth 
eradicated. Let's tromp over to his place and see what he's got in that
closet! He he he...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not FemTalk    
Date & Time: 06/11/90 19:19:12
Message Number  5840

 I must have missed some of the previous messages on homosexuality. I 
was speaking to someone the other day about it, and they have an opinion
that homosexuals should not have intercourse with one another and should
abstain. Actually, I don't think that's the right attitude, but at the 
same time, I like the idea that this person is not going to out and 
force them to do that. And she certainly isn't passing that attitude 
down to her son. I hate people who think they should make their kids 
believe homosexuality and racism is okay. If they don't say anything, 
that's even worse than expressing the attitude in front of the child. My
parents are both prejudiced against blacks and homosexuals. I plan on 
not carrying on the attitudes. What I would really like to know now is, 
how can I live and speak with my parents if I don't like their beliefs 
or habits? I want to jump out and say "This is hurting me and you, and 
you should stop. If I do, they will ignore it or get angry..." Ugh, 
who ever said being RAISED by parents is easy?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/11/90 22:08:01
Message Number  5841

Silly question here.  If you can't sell the 2 Live Crew Album, then
what's it doing in the store?  (unless this ruling applies only to 
minors)
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: untidy afterlif
Date & Time: 06/12/90 00:28:35
Message Number  5842

Well, if we spent 17 years underground in hybernation, we would live
an extra 17 years also!  I thought locust came in 7 year cycles...
Probing into the great unknown or at least the great don't wan't to 
know! 
               Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/12/90 00:31:33
Message Number  5843

Someone, quick, get me a life preserver... Im sinking in my own mis-
interpetations! 
                        Floating down the river of life..
                      Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: express        
Date & Time: 06/12/90 00:34:30
Message Number  5844

   Yes, there are several.  I'll try to get the exact information on
the books soon.  (In August, I can get you the books themselves!)
I'm very impressed withyour descriptive critique.  Most people just
say "Ohhh, they were pretty" or "Verryy interesting".  The one I hate
the most is "My 4 year old could do that".
    The basic principle is fairly simple.  Take cloth (Cotten) and paint
wax on the portion wich you wan't to leave negative, then dye the rest.
With each succesive color, you must wax the erea that you want to remain
the same.  Each time removing the wax with a cloth and an iron.  
     Thats just a very basic overview, but it could get you started.
  
        Tune in tomarow for 
      "PAINT BY NUMBERS"
                  starring
              Tree Beard
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: after Death    
Date & Time: 06/12/90 00:48:07
Message Number  5845

If you reread that, I was not holding christ up and waving him about.
I merely used it as an analogy in order to say that religion does not
really have a place in the discussion of suicide. 
 
    Why are for Mercy killing, and against the death penalty?
           ^you
 
     Anyway, Dr. Death is not a mercy killer.  The women killed herself.
 
    I'm for the death penalty, and mercy killing (with permision befor
hand) 
          For one reason, the death penalty could be considered a 
mercy killing.  Another thing is that the few people who do get the
death penalty are killers.  Many times multiple killers.  (Who can
not be reformed)  75%of the people who enter prison, then get paroled,
will reenter prison.  So, suppose we let a killer loose.  Chances are
that he will kill again!  Suppose we just give life in prison... It 
costs us over 30,000 dollars a year to keep a prisoner.   Multiply that
by 50...  Thats very expensive.
     
       When I die, my soul to keep...
    Or at least a facsimile
                       Tree
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/12/90 03:02:02
Message Number  5846

   What ab0ut R01e p1aying? (N0t with dice, human/furry r01es, p1ay the 
part)
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/12/90 03:05:50
Message Number  5847

  I think it's c010r racism and music racism.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/12/90 03:09:34
Message Number  5848

  
  Hey t0it1e, is there a third party secti0n in the g0vern0r v0ting?
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Not FemTalk    
Date & Time: 06/12/90 03:11:24
Message Number  5849

  
  I hate parents that make their chi1dren be1eive that sex is a bad and 
evi1 thing.
===========

From: THRUD               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: vcr            
Date & Time: 06/12/90 05:48:57
Message Number  5850

Whadda ya think vcrs are for, shellhead? TNG is the ONLY tv show I catch
every week - most other tv is dreck (exept ball games of course) The 
show when Damon didshit decided FE'males are not worthy to wear clothes
was on June 3rd. Unfortunately, this past Sunday, I learned once again
that fathers never win, as I gave my daughter a talking to about leaving
lights/tv/radio/nintento/etal on, then when I programmed the vcr to 
record TNG, she noticed it at about 6:30 and obediently killed the power
  God help anybody who interupts me when they play it again on Sat.
   Who knows what could happen in a TNG movie. In ST V, they had a fifty
year old, overweight communications officer do a fan dance on a sand
dune, and that seemed to distract the sentries ( I wouda shot her for th
feathers)
   'Tis getting tough to get on the board in the evening.
                          A caffeining and careening Thrud
===========

From: THRUD               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/12/90 06:02:06
Message Number  5851

Well, you can't accuse channel 44 of being the big time. The best
solution I see is that you quit work/school/crime/whatever and get
a satalite dish and scan channels 24 hours a day until you find it.
what the hell, we're all getting rectangular eyebballs looking at our
monitors anyway. Remember, be sure to drink coffee notstop for 12
hours of the day, and Bud Lite nonstop for the other 12. Otherwise, 
you couls screw up your system.
  Whadda ya gonna do with a TNG library? My brother is returning from
Spain in  a few months, and he's strange enought to watch 40 episodes
nonstop. 'course, that runs in the family.
   which beatle are you - George , Paul or Ringo? I don't believe this
echos to where John hangs out. 
  Old, tired, sick Joke: What would it take to reunite the Beatles?
?
?
?
?
?
?
       Three more bullets.    
                 c ya,           THRUD
===========

From: THRUD               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: beam me up     
Date & Time: 06/12/90 06:11:29
Message Number  5852

"Man was't meant to have his molecules scattered all over the universe!"
There was a ST when they had to beam down 100 miles (or 10 or 98000) int
a cavern, a Spock specuted on the unpleasentness of beaming into solid
rock (facinating) 
 On TNG, they have used filtering devices to eliminate nasty bugs from 
beaming aboard - like when DR. Pulaski/Roddenberrrrry got the old age
blues and when Data was beaming aboard with a disrupter the Chief just
filtered out the weapon. 
  I'm sure our techie turtle(tacky turtle?) will bestow his wisdom and
knowledge on the subject, and the matter will be laid to rest, and their
will be peace in the world.
  If you changed your name to Rupus, it would be super backwards, albeit
spelled incorrectly.         
                           A Sunrise Thrud
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/12/90 09:12:25
Message Number  5853

A lot of furries (= furry fans, but extremely so) seem to do that more
or less automatically.  I've noticed that I've started responding to
startling or confusing questions with catlike noises, and I'm not really
doing it consciously.
    But as for "real" roleplaying, it's an interesting idea.  Knowing
most furries and their inclination against rules, referees and the like,
I'm not sure what you'd end up with.  (There was a storyboard on a BBS
in California based on a military sf furry story called "Empires," which
was run with the "moderator" running things a lot more tightly than any
other storyboard I've seen.  When RDK was being echoed between a few
BBS's out there, it ended up almost collapsing because of the perceived
"authoritarian" attitude of this moderator.  This story does, of course,
change dramatically based on which side you ask and there's also some
other personal conflicts under the surface, but it seems that it's very
difficult to sustain something furry that isn't also, well, anarchistic.
I suspect furry roleplaying at a party would simply end up being the
different fans' characters interacting with each other at a party, which
(as I said) has been known to happen without any prompting anyway.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: THRUD               
Subject: vcr            
Date & Time: 06/12/90 10:13:20
Message Number  5854

I too have a tale of VCR messing with.  I programed the VCR to tape
Max Headroom on Friday night and some show on Saturday morning.  The VCR
taped Max Headroom, but in the middle of the night my dad came out, saw
the blinking lights (even though the lights were not blinking) and 
hit a bunch of buttons.  The alleged blinkers ceased their blinking, but
the tape also rewound itself, so I was without Max Headroom.  After that
I carted the VCR off to my room.  :)
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: THRUD               
Subject: beam me up     
Date & Time: 06/12/90 10:16:51
Message Number  5855

Of course, if I just leave the name as Rufus, it would spell Sufur
backwards.  People keep pointing out what my name would be like
backwards.  Sigh....
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/12/90 18:20:53
Message Number  5856

 > If you can't sell the 2 Live Crew album, then what's it doing in the
 > store?
 
   Well, so far, only 4 counties in FL have declared the album obscene,
and someplace in Texas ordered the album taken off the shelves today. 
The only place the album is illegal is where it's declared obscene, so 
most of FL is still selling it, but I have a feeling more judges are 
hopping on the bandwaggon. There was a debate over 2 Live Crew on 
Nightline last night. The guy who is leading the attack feels that 2 
Live Crew is obscene and other thigs on the market (Guns & Roses and 
Andrew Dice Clay were mentioned) are not. Well, they're desprately 
trying to put a racist angle into it, and I think that's wrong. 
Unfortunately, the people on Nightline last night kept refuting each 
others facts and taking potshots at each other, so now I'm more confused
than ever... take the law out of the hands of the idiots and get some 
inteligent people in to debate this.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Not FemTalk    
Date & Time: 06/12/90 18:28:14
Message Number  5857

 
 > I hate parents that make their children believe that sex is a bad and
 > evil thing.
 
  Hey, I never said anything about that.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/12/90 18:30:12
Message Number  5858

 To put your mind at ease:
 
 1) We already have a satellite dish and I know EXACTLY where to find 
Star Trek.
 2) I don't need to quit school and scan channels. I can scan channels 
and maintain a weighted 4.2 quite fine, thank you very much.
 3) I'm not any particular Beatle, just "Beatle". I got the nickname 
about 4 years back. I do favor Paul though.
 4) Another sick joke: Why can't you go to the bathroom at a Beatles 
reunion?
.
.
.
.
 A: There's no John.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: vcr            
Date & Time: 06/12/90 18:35:08
Message Number  5859

> it taped Max Headroom...the tape also rewound itself.
 
  I take it you didn't tape ANY other Max episodes (or attempt)?
 
  I'm getting REAL annnoyed at the lack of success in finding the four 
or five episodes I need to finish my collection.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/12/90 18:40:33
Message Number  5860

While we are telling Beatle's jokes.  Here's one.
What do Yoko Ono and a Lady Bug have in common?
 
 
 
 
They both live off of dead beatles.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: vcr            
Date & Time: 06/12/90 18:41:35
Message Number  5861

Nope, I didn't think of taping it when it was on.  Stupid move on my
part.  I have about 15 tapes full of stuff I should watch, half of them
have no labels on them.  Oh well, maybe /this/ summer I'll watch them.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/12/90 21:59:17
Message Number  5862

 Hey, that was a good one.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: vcr            
Date & Time: 06/12/90 21:59:51
Message Number  5863

> I didn't think of taping it when it was on.
 
  I did the same thing. I didn't think of taping any. I thought they'd 
last a bit longer. At least I was smart enough to tell my parents not to
tape over the ones I had. (Like they'd even notice I had taped anything)
 
  Hey, what's on the tapes you have to watch? And if you don't know 
exactly, do you have a vague idea?
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: book           
Date & Time: 06/12/90 22:02:29
Message Number  5864

 Has anyone here read the book "Who Censored Roger Rabbit?" I looked for
it ever since the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" came out. I finally 
found it right under my nose in the young adult section of the main 
library last week! I must say I wasn't disappointed. It was a wild book.
Not as tame as some might think. Lots of corruption and foul play abound
, not to mention that the book takes place in the present, unlike the 
film (which evidently was LOOSELY based on the book)... I think the 
furry fen and many of the others of you here on AR would enjoy it. If 
anyone's read it, let me know what you thought.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Party???       
Date & Time: 06/12/90 22:54:24
Message Number  5865

  S0, the questi0n is, when are y0u ressurecting Ace?
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: beam me up     
Date & Time: 06/12/90 22:56:25
Message Number  5866

  sdrawkcaB
 sudrawcab pr0n0unciati0n 0f backwards backwards.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/12/90 22:59:07
Message Number  5867

   I wish they'd get rids 0f three's c0mpany. that a1ways was a h0rrib1e
sh0w.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: book           
Date & Time: 06/12/90 23:01:47
Message Number  5868

  Hey y'a11, check 0ut the TMNT graphic n0ve1s.
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: BEATLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 00:27:34
Message Number  5869

   Well, the judges are trying to put the will of the "people" and it's
laws.  They are actually bordering on a line of Free Speech and obsenity
What is obscene?  What is not?  What about "stroke mags" and "porn",
both soft and hard.  Vidio stores rent porns, and mini marts sell all
types of magazines.  Why isn't that considered obscene material?
   I myself have not heard Two Live Crews Album, but I doubt it could
be much more sexually explicit than a porno.
 
    Yep, I'm gonna get me some of my judge friends together and drink
some beer and burn some a dem der bad books.........
 
    Were do we draw the line?
     (I know, lets amend the constitution and make anything written
illigal thats written, sung, painted, or spoken!!)
   
    Peritin thoughts are returning and the free thinkers had better
keep their eyes open, otherwise we might loose all of our rights!
Not that I'm personally fond of cuss filled rap, but I would rather
have that then shelves at the record store full of Slim Wittman's
albums.
 
    Freedom.. use it or loose it!
                   Tree Beard
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: BEATLE              
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/13/90 00:42:40
Message Number  5870

Ooohhhh ack... Sick but cute.
                 Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/13/90 00:46:56
Message Number  5871

   How 'bout "The Ropers"... thats quality programming if I ever saw
it!  (Yes, sometimes it can be found if you look for it (with a dish))
 
   Anyway, every watches too much T.V.   So it helps when there is 
nothing on worth watching, it is easier to turn off!
 
             Tree
My personal favorite has to be Family Feud.. I can't believe it is still
on... Rech!
          ^t
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: vcr            
Date & Time: 06/13/90 01:33:45
Message Number  5872

Nothing of any relevance.  Most likely some movies I'll never watch, 
some old episode of ST:TNG (maybe, I'm not sure).  Gads, I'll get
around to watching them one day.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/13/90 01:39:41
Message Number  5873

>My personal favorite has to be Family Feud..
 
Eeeeeek!  Please, no!  To borrow a line from "Weird Al" Yankovic
"I'd rather clean all the tiolets in Grand Central Station with my 
tongue than spend one more minute with you."
 
   ...it's late, and I can't spell toilets, but I do like pizza.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 01:54:20
Message Number  5874

>If you can't sell the 2 Live Crew album, then what's it doing in the
>store?
 
That's a good question. Until last week, I'd have said that you can't
sell them to minors, but there was a record store owner arrested
recently for selling it to an undercover porker who /wasn't/ a
minor, so I really can't tell you.
 
Isn't it nice that our state's law enforcement machinery is working so
very hard to protect us from things which might offend our morals?
If they'd show this much enthusiasm toward protecting us from things
which might steal our wallets, I'd feel much safer.
                 --An unimpressed Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: Before Death   
Date & Time: 06/13/90 01:59:05
Message Number  5875

>For one reason, the death penalty could be considered a mercy killing.
 
Huh? I missed that one...I suppose some people might find death
preferable to, say, life in prison, but I don't really think the
individual in question gets to make that choice. In any event, I would
tend to think that mercy killing doesn't apply to individuals who
don't especially want to be killed.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 02:01:24
Message Number  5876

>I think it's c010r racism and music racism.
 
I don't think race has a whole lot to do with 2 Live Crew's album,
frankly. Have you seen it? More than half the song titles include the
word "fuck," and the lyrics themselves don't stint much in the 
profanity and explicit sexuality themselves. If ever there was an album
screaming "Hit me! Hit me!" that one is it, and I think it probably
would have run into trouble if the people producing it had been
white Southern Baptists. While I don't approve of censorship in /any/
form, it's groups like 2 Live Crew who make it very difficult to
remember why.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 02:04:58
Message Number  5877

>...is there a third party section in the governor's voting?
 
Ghod only knows. I sure don't...I don't recall seeing any Libertarians
running for office, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: beam me up     
Date & Time: 06/13/90 02:08:10
Message Number  5878

>I'm sure our techy turtle(tacky turtle?) will bestow his wisdom and
>knowledge on the subject...
 
...but he'd really rather not. The whole transporter is kind of a
fuzzy can of worms. When you beam down onto a planet, what happens to
the air you displace? Easy to forget about, but it's a significant
volume of air...think about the shockwave produced by a gunshot, and
the volume of displacement there is trivial compared to the volume of,
say, a pointy-eared walking computer. What happens if you appear two
feet off, or under, the ground? For that matter, when you are in orbit
there is a huge relative difference in kinetic energy and potential
energy between yourself and the ground (we're talking a few thousand
miles per second of kinetic energy and the force of a several-hunderd-
mile fall in potential energy, here), yet you don't promptly turn into
mush or a glowing ball of plasma when you re-materialize. Then you get
into the philosophical implications--what would happen if you could
record a transmission and replicate the person transmitted a few dozen
times? What if you figure out a way to send someone to a planet without
destroying the original copy of that person in the transporter? For that
matter, is the person who arrives on the planet the same as the person
who entered the transporter? Is his consciousness the same, or do you
effectively die when you are transported, and get replaced by a new
individual with all your memories and all your personality traits?
I don't /even/ want to get into it...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: book           
Date & Time: 06/13/90 02:17:40
Message Number  5879

>Hey y'a11, check 0ut the TMNT graphic n0vels.
 
But be sure to return them by the due date, or you'll get a fine!
===========

From: THRUD               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: beam me up     
Date & Time: 06/13/90 05:33:17
Message Number  5880

Several of these problems have been dealt with - 'member Kirko getting 
split into good and evil twins ( and that horny dog) Wasn't it at the 
beginning of ST I when somebody, maybe even some science officer, got
turned into a pile of mush by the transporter and 
Decker took over the Science Board.
  Anyhow, almost all transporter problems were resolved in the FLY II,
when Jeff Goldblums son learned the valuble lesson "If you fuck up,
your girlfriend will blow you away with a shotgun, so it's better to
stick to transmuting corporate presidents into dogs" Thats entertainment
 Let's make a effort to keep the conference of a higher philosophical
plane - everyone knows that TNG, the Simpsons and ball games are
the only things of value on commmercial TV. 
  I saw Suzanne Somers in Playboy 15 years ago - and even then she
needed some underwire support.
  Mets 19 
  Cubs 8           Now THAT'S entertainment
                     A Thrud beholding the crack of Dawn
                     (Shh, don't wanna wake her up yet)
===========

From: THRUD               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: weighted 4.2   
Date & Time: 06/13/90 05:48:05
Message Number  5881

Jeez, I can only manage a 3.9, 'course, I waste a lot of my time 
paying for a truck, and Olds, a house, a wife and 1 and 2/3 rug rats.
I guess that means I have a weighted 3.9, since I have a ball and 
chain around my neck. The real reason I post at 5:30 is that this is
the only time I get some peace and quiet. Wait til the day your
daughter is giggling on the phone for three hours, and then 5 minutes
after you log in starts with "Daaaaad, are you STILL on the phone"
She thinks she's getting a new phone for her BDay - in reality, I'M
getting a new phone in my den for her birthday, and she can have the old
one.
   This concludes my grumbling for the day.
                        An awakening THRUD
.
What yellow and ugly and sleeps alone?
===========

From: THRUD               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: sufur          
Date & Time: 06/13/90 05:57:06
Message Number  5882

I know what you mean - sometimes, to be cute, my daughter calls me
'dad' instead of 'dad' - and you wouldn't believe what she calls her
mon. Ah well, Able was I ere I saw Elba.
                        Durth
(ok ok, that's not quite backwards, but it has a better effect)
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 06:32:29
Message Number  5883

  If they're g0ing t0 ban tw0 1ive crew because 0f pr0fanity, what c0mes
next? Wi11 we be watching G m0vies and wi11 they dictate what is 'safe'
f0r us t0 read and 1isten t0? WHAT'S THE FAV0RITE SH0W IN THE WH01E WIDE
W0R1D???
               THE RUNNING MAN!!!
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/13/90 06:36:34
Message Number  5884

  I 0n1y watch a Max 0f 4 h0urs 0f TV a day (1ess when n0t a wrest1ing
night), s0 I want the sh0ws I watch t0 be w0rth watching. Anyb0dy watch
the R0dney Dangerfie1d sh0w? H0w many rec0gnized Punky Brewster???
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 06:40:57
Message Number  5885

Megadeth.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 14:23:34
Message Number  5887

Turtle writes:
Isn't it nice that our state's law enforcement machinery is working so
very hard to protect us from things which might offend our morals?
If they'd show this much enthusiasm toward protecting us from things
which might steal our wallets, I'd feel much safer.
                 --An unimpressed Turtle
 
But don't you see?  2 Live Crew's music makes people want to steal
wallets, so by stopping the sale of the music, you stop the cause of 
these people becoming thieves.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/13/90 18:24:19
Message Number  5888

 Hey, "Family Feud" is a pretty interesting game show! Anyway, I didn't 
know you could find the "Ropers" with a dish (not that I'd want to!) but
you could just go down to Channel 40 and ask, and they'd probably show 
you their tapes of the show...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: weighted 4.2   
Date & Time: 06/13/90 18:30:40
Message Number  5889

> "DAAAAAAD! Are you still on the  phone?"
 
  Hey, I already get that from my sister! (sans the DAAAAAD part)....
.s
oops...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/13/90 18:32:23
Message Number  5890

> How many recognized Punky Brewster?
 
  I did! (Like that's something special?) It wasn't too hard. Did you 
see that unsold pilot she did about a year back? Anyway, you'll also 
notice that the brother and sister in that show were also both in the 
film "Honey, I Shrunk the Kids", but they were in different families 
there...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: Star Trek      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 18:35:22
Message Number  5891

  If you are coming to the Star Trek series at Litchfield Cinemas this
Saturday (the 16th) at 10AM, then do the following:
 1) Send me mail and inform me you will be there. I want to take a count
 2) Be at the theatre BY 9:45!! I need to collect money and get tickets.
 3) Bring $1.50 for admission. We will not pay for you if you forget the
money. Bring money for food and drink if you want any.
  We will meet to the LEFT of the theatre entrance. I will be there 
wearing a red/white striped shirt and a Star Trek button.
 
 Live long and prosper.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/13/90 22:29:11
Message Number  5892

  HEY!!! I heard that they (44) were dr0pping ST AND ST:TNG!!!!!!!
 They're supp0sed1y being rep1aced py the 1/2 hr. sitc0ms that I hate
s0 much!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: beam me up     
Date & Time: 06/13/90 23:23:59
Message Number  5893

>...everyone knows that TNG, the Simpsonms and ball games are the only
>things worth watching on commercial TV.
 
TNG, yes; the Simpsons, yes; ball games, no. Nothing is more tedious
than watching overdeveloped Neanderthals grunt, sweat, pick, spit,
and bash each other for two hours. For some mysterious reason, I noticed
that your list is missing "Married...With Children;" just an oversight
on your part, I assume.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/13/90 23:28:16
Message Number  5894

Well, if 2 Live Crew's music is responsible for people turning to a
life of crime, then by all means ban it!
...I wonder what sort of music turns people into Yuppies.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/14/90 00:34:00
Message Number  5895

> I heard that they were dropping ST AND ST:TNG!!!!!!!
 
 I doubt that... where did you hear that?
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: RUFUS               
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/14/90 00:42:59
Message Number  5896

Cold anchovy pizza with extra cheese!
      Just kidden about "Family Feud"... terrible show, but with all
that kissing, I just had to watch!
  
    Tree 
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Before Death   
Date & Time: 06/14/90 00:46:43
Message Number  5897

>I suppose people might find death preferable to, say, life in prison...
 
   My point exactly.
 
>...but I don't really think the individual in question get to matke 
that choice.
 
   Thats right.  They gave up that choice when they committed first
degree murder.  That is usually the way criminal get the death penalty.
People in prison give up almost all of their rights... as well it should
be.  Prison is no country club, but if certain elements had it their way
it would be.
     There is a knew idea that is being implemented that would save the
taxpayers a lot of money (I don't know the exact figures)  Its called
Boot Camp.  It is for first time offenders, and it is just like the
army version.  They say the repeat offences are down to 25% with this
program.  In ten years who knows?  But it works now!
  
       Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: beam me up     
Date & Time: 06/14/90 00:55:52
Message Number  5898

With the air displacement problem, all that would have to happen is
the person would replace the air, and the air would materialize on the
ship.  Or better yet it would be put into outer space.  The vaccum would
probably take care of it (Near Vaccum).
      
       Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: rap music      
Date & Time: 06/14/90 01:00:46
Message Number  5899

Im an painter, and I can't agree with you more.
 
     I still enjoy "Dr. Who","Saturday Night Live", and "Late Night" but
i'm just wierd!
                    Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: reruns         
Date & Time: 06/14/90 01:04:21
Message Number  5900

Punky Brewster... recht.  I can't stand cute kids!  The only reason I
like Bart Simpson is that he is not a cute kid!
     4 HOURS?  Wow, if I had 28 hours in a day, I still would not
watch 4 hours of T.V. Thats 870,000 hours of tv in your lifetime!
WOW!     
       Tree
===========

