From: TURTLE              
To: MIKE GREENAWALD     
Subject: aristotle      
Date & Time: 08/02/90 01:32:58
Message Number  7103

Aristotle is not the answer. People can borrow all the time, few
can create. Do you rreally think you can walk through my tree? If
you believe, both are there. An orange tree in the room doesn't
have to be in the mind. It can be by the door. Aquinas was a Christian.
His tree was in Heaven. Others may not be. They need not collide
either. I can walk through his heaven. What I see may be different.
Nor does an orange have to be an orange. Perhaps Aqunias knew that.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/02/90 01:43:45
Message Number  7104

>How about when we weren't so enlightened about black people?
 
How about when we weren't so enlightened about black people? I can
only hope that eventually we'll be as enlightened about homosexuals.
Regardless of any arguments about morality being in the public
perception or whatever, I still believe that bigotry is immoral
regardless of the group it's turned against--black, homosexual,
whatever.
 
What's yer point?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/02/90 01:47:50
Message Number  7105

>Things weren't ment to go like that...etc, etc...
 
That explains your reasons for finding the behavior itself unappealing,
I suppose. What it /doesn't/ explain is your condemnation of gays, your
refusal to associate with "those people" in any way, your...well, for
lack of a better word, bigotry. Read my lips: I'm not at all attracted
to the practice. The thought of sleeping with another man turns my
stomach. That has nothing to do with the PEOPLE who engage in that
practice. Yes, I think the eggplant metaphor is perfectly apt: the
thought of putting an eggplant in my mouth makes me ill, but why on
earth would any rational person refuse to associate with people who
like eggplant? You don't have to have a fascination for sleeping with
other men to treat gays like humans and not walking stereotypes. For
some reason which is beyond me but which doesn't seem to relate to
your view of homosexuality as a "sickness," you seem to behave as if
/all/ homosexuals are stereotypes, they all have the same character-
istics, etc, etc.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/02/90 01:54:37
Message Number  7106

>Didn't your mother teach you anything?
 
I can't speak for Beatle, but my mother taught me respect for others,
toleration, and a fierce belief in the individual liberties of other
people. On the whole, I've found it more useful than some narrow-minded
self-righteous morality.
 
That was an easy question. Next!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 02:02:10
Message Number  7107

>Philosophy - weird stuff but a good excercise for the mind.
 
Hmm...I look upon it more as mental masturbation myself.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Guitars        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 02:05:31
Message Number  7108

Great Idea #225312241402: Attach a set of pickups to a bowed psaltry--
plug the result into an amp and turn on the juice. I'd /love/ to know
what it'd sound like.
 
Not that that's on the subject or anything, you understand.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/02/90 02:07:17
Message Number  7109

>MTV caters to the masses...
 
Yes, unfortunately. Didn't start out that way, but demographics has
ruined the form.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: -ALL-               
Subject: Mythagoras #2  
Date & Time: 08/02/90 05:20:53
Message Number  7110

Yes, folks, it's here! Mythagoras #2, back from the printers and now
available. Issue 2 features a very impressive color cover on glossy
stock; art by Juan Alfonso, Michael Hirtes, Zjonni, Eric Blumrich,
Maggie de Alarcon, and more; fiction by Watts Martin, Gary Jurman, and
Kevin Higgins; the first installment of an ongoing series by Lawrence
Schoen; and all sorts of neat stuff. Contrary to what certain doomsayers
were predicting, the cover looks /really good/. Issue 2 should be
available at the Time Machine in Bradenton by Friday; cover price is
$3.50; 36 pages. Get 'em while they're hot!
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/02/90 05:56:49
Message Number  7111

I will take a quote that Mike Hickmon gave to me one day while we were
speaking of the subject... 
 
"Every male has a homosexual thought atleast /once/ in his life....
whether he acts apon (upon?) it is his own choice."
 
I think that statement says it all ... Most of us choose not to act apon
it, and some of us do .... I know people who have carried on a homosexua
relationship exactly once in their life for an extended period of time,
and when that ended, they never did anything homosexual again, and are
completely heterosexual now ... At any rate, it is /definately/ NOT a
sickness ... Just a choice that is made ... It is mostly a moral value..
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 12:14:39
Message Number  7114

When I have more time I would like to discuss this philosophy further wi
th you further. I am on the trach for people who would like to go to the
Apple Club meeting. I am on the track of people who would like to go
to the Apple Club meeting tonight at Sarasota Votech.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: %&xx                
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:03:49
Message Number  7117

I shan't even reply to that...how many people do you know that have
willingly submitted to incest?  That's what I thought.
        The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Ziggy          
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:06:49
Message Number  7118

You're on!  My 'puter had a few motherboard fries, yes indeed, but it's
all better now...It's sad to see what's become of vinyl these days...I 
remember when it was "the thing"....
          The lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: ...Earth Callin
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:08:22
Message Number  7119

Gee, do I get to call you *babe* too?
:>
      The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:09:16
Message Number  7120

I have an AT, too...now you can't bitch about IBM's at me any more....I 
really love my 'puter.  Hmm...single life...sucks...Rob is leaving to-
morrow for the Bahamas....3 weeks alone...yick@
.e
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Earth.         
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:13:07
Message Number  7121

Yeah, actually they have rights...not as many as they should, but they
have rights...I'll get you later...
      The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
Subject: Rights?        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:15:30
Message Number  7122

You obviously don't know me, then...of course they should have rights...
and a lot more than they do....I am a very vocal person as far as gay 
rights are concerned...I'm involved in SAS...Sarasota Aids Support, and 
a few other organizations...AIDS is a scary disease, and you take it ver
y  seriously when it hits home...my cousin died of AIDS almost two years
ago.  I never laugh when someone mentions a gay joke...they aren't funny
at all...you have to lack a sense of humor to laugh at the dead, and at 
people who have feelings...
         The Lady
.s
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:20:26
Message Number  7123

I ask!  I ask!  How are you, dearest one?
        The Lady
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Heart?         
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:32:23
Message Number  7124

L>Answer me this:
L>        What exactly is normal?
L>                The Lady
L>
   
  Anything which is not abnormal. 
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:34:54
Message Number  7125

Oh, don't harrangue me with your tirades.  I never said that homo's 
don't have any right to screw those of thier own sex.   And yes, every
one has a right to thier privacy.  I never said that they didn't, for
that matter.
  I simply said that homos are sick.  That is not a criticism (as 
everybody on this board thinks it is), it is simply an observation.
 
"SICK-SICK-SICK-SICK-"   Snakebyte, aLTER rEALITY
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Truth          
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:54:00
Message Number  7126

T>I'd still say that the fact that a belief is popular...[inspires]
T>fanaticism...or long lived doesn't necessarily have any bearing on its
T>validity. 
  
  Ah, a beautiful stroke of logic!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
Subject: Christian? HAH!
Date & Time: 08/02/90 19:59:57
Message Number  7127

AJ>...I no longer lead the "life" of what would be considered "a noble
AJ>christian"
  HAH!  I guess not!
AJ>I still believe in the one Almighty.
 
 Then I guess you believe in the rest of the kit&kaboodle, too, dontcha?
Do you have any idea what the bible says about sodomy?  Sodomizers make
me sick.  
  I can't explain how sick that makes me...the contradiction between
a sodomizer who believes in the "one Almighty".   Do you understand at
all what I'm getting at?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
Subject: Homosexuals    
Date & Time: 08/02/90 20:05:31
Message Number  7128

AJ> I prefer to think of "homosexuality" an alternative, rather than use
AJ>your termination of "not normal", who is dictating what is Normal
AJ>or not?....We could say Christianity is not normal in our society 
AJ>today......but who am I to define normal>
 
  Here, for everyone to see, is an example of a sick mind trying to 
justify itself and it's actions.  Note the comparison of 
homoperversity to Christianity for the sake of proving homoperversity
normal.  
  Also, the question of who dictates what is normal proves that htis
mind is not aware of what is normal.  
  
  The typical gay cannot be blamed for being homosexual...it is sad, 
however, that they have to be this way. 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: definition     
Date & Time: 08/02/90 21:15:07
Message Number  7129

I forget now what exactly prompted the remark except that it indeed 
appeared that your temper was somewhat "short".  Perhaps a better word
would have been not nasty but rather "irritated".  Of course you are
entitled to express an opinion without being castigated or referred to
in less than complementary terms.  Please forgive me for tromping on
still-tender feelings.
Also I'm sorry that I have com across in such a vague manner. Sometimes
in the "heat" of the post I get redundant and thus unclear.  I am holdin
a book titled "What the Cults Believe" which is aguide to these groups.
It gives the Websters definition and notes that sect is a synonym for
cult.  It is rather loosely organized around the principle that the
group to be considered a cult have beliefs outside the established norm
for mainstream religious organizations.  Yes there ARE sects that are
considered mainstream and in fact have issued many joint proclomations
as articles of faith binding them in the greater concept of the ministry
of Christ.  I read somewhere that the various groups (Baptists, Episcopl
Presbyterian etc etc) in fact agree on the "most important" 85% of 
dogma - I would presume - but not guarantee - that this is stuff like
observance of the Lord's Supper, He died for our sins on the cross, He
was the Son of God, He was God Incarnate (trilogy) etc etc.
If your church recognizes some of these cults then I would defer to 
their and your priveledge to do so and would only hope that the 
superficial nod to the Bible would not varnish over major flaws in 
theology.  Mormons as a case in point tromp all over themselves in
contradictions within the Book of Mormon.  As a matter of fact a couple
of ex-mormons that run an organization that ministers to mormons have
counted over 3,600 alterations, changes and omissions in this
"divinely inspired and translated work" since its' first printing.  The
theology that they preach is superficially Christian and it is only 
under closser scrutiny that they are exposed.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 21:32:07
Message Number  7130

Not true - it helps to bounce ideas off a willing mental wall and see
how it comes back.  Empiricism at its' best.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Guitars        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 21:33:12
Message Number  7131

I wanna bowed psaltry *so* bad - I just never seem to have the approx
$150 when the medieval festival comes around.. Sigh...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Ziggy          
Date & Time: 08/02/90 21:36:04
Message Number  7132

When I lived in Germany I started working in the cafeteria at Rhein 
Maine airbase at the tender age of 14.  I made $150 every two weeks
and had a really nice stereo in a couple of months.  For the next
2 years every two weeks I would go to a place called BuchSchalg where
there was a complete music store (nothing but LP's as cassettes were
not reliable)  I spend no less than $60 on LP's at $2 each!  You figure
how many albumns I used to have.  We were overweight when we left so I
had to pay for about 350 lbs extra for my LP's - I had easy close to
1000.  I got careless in my later teenage years and loaned without
remembering - got toasted at parties and forgot now I have very few of
these albumns to remind me *snif*....  My own damned fault.  When I 
finally woke up - I started listening to the LP's once to make sure they
were OK and then taping them and listening to the tape.  I still have
most of them except the ones my ex got brain dead over...
I just picked up Bowie - "Changes" it's pretty good.  I gotta start 
replentisghing my Floyd with CD's now that they're out.  I wish there
was a way to capture one of their concerts.  I saw a show in Germany 
where they performed in a castle and dumped 40 tons of dry ice into the
moat - WOW!  They are pretty lucky over there as they play old taped 
concerts all the time on TV.
Ah well - fond memories.  As far as getting together you'll have to let
me know when is good for you - I left private mail - read it...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: ...Earth Callin
Date & Time: 08/02/90 21:46:32
Message Number  7133

Sure!  Several of the gals at work do.  I hope it wasn't percieved as 
sexist or anything.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: definition     
Date & Time: 08/02/90 22:24:52
Message Number  7134

Thank you for the clarifications; ambiguities in a serious discussion
drive me batty.
> If your church recognizes some of these cults then I would defer...
  
It's not a matter of "recognition".  There's no "approved" list
of proper and acceptable religions circulating among the Episcopal
hierarchy.  Part of the "Articles of Faith" recognizes and accepts
diversity in beliefs and forms of worship.  You made the assumption
that since I said we don't view them as cults, that we give the
Goodhousekeeping stamp of approval.  The truth (of our belief) lies
in the middle ... we simply view other faiths as different from our
own.  As my rector once summed it up, "Fine, they'll get to heaven
their way and I'll get to heaven mine."
    We've been bandying theologies around quite a bit, but I've missed
you mentioning what church you belong to.  (I came into this string
late and might have missed it.)  You've got me curious, which
denomination do you adhere to?
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: *.*                 
Subject: changes        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 22:40:23
Message Number  7135

     Hmmm, so Wezip was having male visitors.  Good.
     Glancing down at the shoulder, she was glad to see the wound
had repaired itself.  Now, if she could only find clothing that would
do the same.  She stared curiously at Rufus, or rather, at the remaining
portions of Rufus' shoulder.  Strange that he was still standing in
such a condition.  Also, strange ... the Giant and the polar bear were
strangly silent during all the tumult.  Where had they disappeared to?
     "So, Wezip, when do we get to meet your friends?  Will you be
bringing them by the Pub?  And, by the way, what's become of Donthen?
I'm surprised he hasn't come to check on the latest damage to his
establishment.  Of course, from the little I've seen of this charming
place, this must be a rather quiet business day.  Well, let's see if
I can raise a little more noise."
     She went to the piano and with just minor difficulty opened the
sliding panel to get at the player roll.  She discarded the singed and
wet roll.  Loading another, she set it playing.  About every fourth
note played, and roughly half of those were twangy and off-key.
     "Bloody 'ell."
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Truth          
Date & Time: 08/02/90 23:19:34
Message Number  7136

T>"Once I believe with all my heart thent he mysteries of [the Bible 
T>and] Christianity go away because I no longer have to think about 
T>them rationally.  Pity the poor people who haven't seen the light 
T>yet and still think rationally about this stuff."
  
Oh, I cannot tell you how BEAUTIFULLY you expressed that!  Oh, man, 
that is my thinking and the way I have been trying to express it
for a LONG, Long time!  Oh, man...that was great!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/02/90 23:39:49
Message Number  7137

JB>The homosexual realizes his/her predisposition and if they are 
JB>mentally healthy 
  
STOP! right there.  That they accept the "predisposition" is not 
the part that is mentally abberant.  I am shallow, and neurotic, and
occasionally paranoid.  I accept that.  The fact that I accept it is not
the abnormal part...obviously!  The part about being shallow, neurotic &
paranoid is what is abberant.  The 
The "predisposition" is what is abberant in a homosexual. 
 
JB>...hardly a disease thatn can be treated with chicken soup.
  
Yes, what a shame.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/02/90 23:45:24
Message Number  7138

JB>That particular quote was simply to shock us liberal adults
  
Well, aren't WE just so superior.  The quote, in its reverse form can
also apply.  And I don't use it for the shock value...don't flatter
yourself by thinking I put it there just for you "liberal adults".  
As for "rednek amerika", I would bet $1000 that I could take a poll of 
just about any average neighborhood and there would be more people anti
than pro to homosexuality, men OR women.  You had better wise up, becaus
because "popular opinion" has spoken.  Homosexuality in any form is 
perverse and abnormal.  
  
  Anyone care to take my bet?  Put your money where your mouth is...
I could use $100 to buy a new Sixpack for my 440 Mopar.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Bias in bias   
Date & Time: 08/02/90 23:52:25
Message Number  7139

JB>...about 70% of...males have a homosexual encounter of /some/ kind 
JB>by the time they are 18 years old?  Wasn't yours good?
 
I should be offended by your bait. If you want to accuse me of 
homosexuality, why don't you just out and do it?  That was really a
cheap shot.  I can't tell you how (pissed) dissapointed I am (at) with
you. 
  
  No, I guess that I was among the 30% who just "missed out"
but don't let me discourage you from relating your own experience.
  
 
 
 
   Hmmm...70%, huh?  That must be the reason why all the guys here 
are so defensive of homoperversity.  THEY"VE ALL DONE IT AT ONE TIME
OR ANOTHER.  IT FOLLOWS! (tm) LOGICALLY! (tm)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Guitars        
Date & Time: 08/02/90 23:58:59
Message Number  7140

Wups...I don't know if you still wanna have tacos after my last post...
but I really dig (lack of a more expressive word) Dan Fogleburgs stuff.
And I think that it's great too, that we can get all pissed off over 
some unimportant gay issue and still talk music.  
  Dianne, eh?  She single?  Young?  Blonde?  Buxom?  Eh, forget it...
she wouldn't give me a second glance...course, I could always leave a 
big tip on the bar....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: JOB            
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:02:40
Message Number  7141

I do a lot of breadboarding of new circuits...I looked into buying 
Orcad PCB and ohmygod...$1500 and up. I was really looking forward
to making my own boards, but the autorouter alone was $250!  And 
got more expensve for rip-up and re-router which could complete 100%
of the time.  I have Orcad (the first one) and soon to have a plotter
(HP-7274 equiv) as soon as I can find the Orcad driver for it. 
  What do you use "off the shelf"?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:07:41
Message Number  7142

B>By the logic I think you are following, sex is strictly for re-
B>production of the species.  Following that idea, any sexthat [sic]
B>does not produce offspring can be equated with homosexuality.
  
 No.  Homosexuality is a definition unto itself.  Any sex that does 
not result in sexual reproduction can be equated with sodomy.  Which,
no, I don't approve of sodomy, either...but that's another debate.
 
B>This still leave the idea of the "sickness" unproved.
  
I thing you mean, "unproven".  And no, it doesn't.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:12:00
Message Number  7143

B>No, the fact that something is done different than intended doesn't
B>indicate a sickness. 
  
  It does where sexual relations are concerned.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:14:11
Message Number  7144

B>Just because someone exhibits an odd behavior doesn't mean they're
B>sick.
  
  No?  The the people who wander the streets of New York who talk to 
themselves are actually fine, upstanding SANE people?  And by your
premise, all the people who are in Arcadia should be released...why,
they're HEALTHY individuals!  
  I think that I have discovered why you think the way you do. With a
base like that to go on, you could explain ANYTHING abnormal or 
sick as just an "odd behavior".  
  If your attitude is typical, I should not have bothered to bring
this subject up.  With that attitude, you could dismiss anything I
say, so I will no longer discuss it with you...
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:23:58
Message Number  7145

T>What's yer point?
  
Go back and re-read...then ask me again. But read the thread. I can
only repeat what I said to make my point.
  I agree.  Bigotry is immoral.  I never claimed to be perfectly moral.
You cannot blame a black man for being black, any more than you can 
blame a white for being white.  You can blame a white for stealing,
or any other crime. That would not be bigotry.  
  You cannot blame a man for being homosexual...unless he chose to
be.  Most of the time, they are stuck with it somehow.  It isn't a 
crime, true, to be homosexual.  (Unless you're me, of course.)  It
is, however, in direct contradiction to the way things were meant to
operate, and therefore, abnormal. 
  Ok, I'll admit it.  I don't like gays.  Why they do what they
do is irrelavant to me, the fact that they do it is what really 
bothers me.  They do it, it bothers me...OPINION.  
They do it and can't help thier "predisposition"...FACT.  
They do it in direct contradiction to what is natural...ABNORMAL. (FACT)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:37:32
Message Number  7146

T>That explains your reasons for finding the behavior itself unappealing
T>
  No, not unappealing.  Disgusting.  Abberative.  Abnormal. 
T>Yes, I think the eggplant metaphor
T>
  Not a metaphor, Mr. Grammar...it's an analogy.  And a totally 
inaccurate one, at that.  Eggplant was meant to be eaten.  To eat
eggplant is not an unnatural act.  It is digestable (unlike semen).
 
T>You seem to behave as if /all/ homosexuals are stereotypes, they 
T>all have the same characteristics, etc, etc.
 
They all engage in homosexual activity.  This is enough for me.  Acting
brutish (for women) or swishy (for men)...to what percentage do YOU 
think this applies?  Or other minor traits...like a high, womanish 
(for men) or gravely (for women) type voice...tell me that you don't 
see this more often than not.  I won't ask for proof. 
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:45:56
Message Number  7147

T>I can't speak for Beatle,
T>
  Good.  Shut up and but out.
T>But my mother taught me respect for others, toleration, and a 
T>fierce belief in the individual liberties of other people.
T>
  Good.  I'm glad you told me that.  THAT explains why you are so
tolerant of gays and other perverse behaviors.  So, in the same 
line of reasoning that I discovered with Beatle, you can dismiss 
anything by simply "tolerating" that type of behavior.  Boy, you
two are a pair.  
 
T>That was an easy question.  Next!
 
So why don't you tolerate criminal sexual-pyschopaths, too?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: BIG LEW             
Subject: ANDREW         
Date & Time: 08/03/90 00:53:36
Message Number  7148

BLU>I am curious as to your opinion of Andrew Clay?
  
 I think he is extremely vulgar and rarely funny.  I think his own 
self-opinion...lets just say he's probably his biggest fan.  I must
however agree with his views on homoperversity.  Sometime I will 
quote him in the full context on what he says on Ambi-sexuals...
something like:
  
"So, whadda they do, wake up in the moring and flip a coin? Whatdo
I wanna be doday...tails, up the pipe, heads...BALLS ACROSS THE NOSE!"
("OH!") -Andew "Dice" Clay...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Earth.         
Date & Time: 08/03/90 01:40:32
Message Number  7149

>...I'll get you later...
 
I bet you will. So when are you going to make me that custard, anyway??
OH--Before I forget--the deadline for Mythagoras #3 is currently Septem-
ber first, which isn't all that far away, so I'll try to make a point
to get #1 and #2 to you ASAP.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Guitars        
Date & Time: 08/03/90 02:01:32
Message Number  7151

Yes, but an *electric* bowed psaltry??
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Truth          
Date & Time: 08/03/90 02:04:21
Message Number  7152

>Oh man...that was great!
 
Really? Well, uh, thanks for the vote of confidence, I guess...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 02:05:17
Message Number  7153

>The "predisposition" is what is aberrant in a homosexual.
 
Do you also make the same claim about oral sex; that is, since nature
obviously didn't intend for the organs involved to be involved in that
sort of activity, then the people who do it must be sick? If you /do/,
then it's quite curious to me that you aren't as busy vigorusly
condemning people who engage in oral sex as "sick," "deviant,"
and "not normal." On the other hand, if you /don't/ believe oral sex
is sick, then I'd suspect your condemnation of homosexuality on the
grounds of nature is more of a rationalization than a reason for your
beliefs.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 02:10:00
Message Number  7154

>Any sex that does not result in sexual reprduction can be equated with
>sodomy.
 
A minor semantic quibble here, rather than a conceptual one (aren't you
lucky?) The definition for sodomy is pretty narrow; you can't really
equate acts which fall outside that definition to sodomy. Also, I don't
think you phrased that the way you intended; from the sound of things,
it would seem that you'd equate sex with contraceptives to sodomy, and
I don't think that's the claim you're making.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 02:12:44
Message Number  7155

Another semantic quibble: Beatle's statement that not all abnormal
behavior can be considered sick does not imply that /no/ abnormal
behavior can be considered sick. It simply means that the fact that the
behavior is uncommon is, by itself, insufficient to prove that an
illness exists. Hey, staying up 'til one AM BBSing isn't normal
behavior, but it also isn't sign of sickness...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Real analogs   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 02:16:09
Message Number  7156

>Eggplant was ment to be eaten.
 
Not if you ask the eggplant.
 
>Semen...[is] not digestable.
 
Not true. I certainly wouldn't care to make it part of my diet, but it
most certainly can be digested without undue difficulty.
 
Of the people I know who are gay, which may or may not be a represen-
tative sample, I would say they do /not/ meet the "swishy" or
"mean bitch" stereotypes much more often than they do. However, most
of the people I've met who are gay are college students from generally
white middle-class families, so, as I said, they may or may not be
representational of the so-called "gay community" as a whole. This is
exactly my point, though; gays are /people,/ and this naturally means
that they come in all shapes, sizes, attitudes, outlooks, beliefs,
etc, etc. Therefore, judging anybody on the basis of a stereotype
is at best risky and at worst does them--and you--a grave injustice.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 02:21:52
Message Number  7157

>Shut up and but out.
 
"Butt out."
 
>Boy, you two are a pair.
 
Yeah--throw in Watts and we're three of a kind, you need an inside
straight or better to beat us.
 
>So why don't you tolerate sexual-psychopathic behavior?
 
I generally consider myself openminded. I am perfectly willing to
accept the fact that people have opinions, views, and behavior which
I don't agree with. That does not mean I have no objections to people
who abuse other people, people who abuse animals, or people who
interfere with the well-being of others or myself. If being open-
minded and tolerant of others is a vice, well, I'm sorry, but there
it is. Then again, if I were /not/ tolerant of other people's views, I
almost certainly would have stopped speaking to you or associating with
you by now.
===========

From: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Rights?        
Date & Time: 08/03/90 11:45:24
Message Number  7158

I too volunteer at SAS...Maybe I already know you..I understand where 
you are comming from.
 
TopGun Strikes Again..... Sysop Of ALTnet BBS
===========

From: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
To: BIG LEW             
Subject: Gerbiling      
Date & Time: 08/03/90 11:48:58
Message Number  7159

YUCK!, I have heard that it is a REAL practice..I am not like that
and I think that its sick....Glad I dont do THAT!
 
TopGun Strikes Again..... Sysop Of ALTnet BBS
===========

From: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Normal         
Date & Time: 08/03/90 11:51:00
Message Number  7160

Whatever...its people like you who have closed minds and live in the
Dark Ages....thats fine , if thats what floats your boat.
 
TopGun Strikes Again..... Sysop Of ALTnet BBS
===========

From: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Christian? HAH!
Date & Time: 08/03/90 11:52:40
Message Number  7161

It seems that I need not WASTE my energy on you anymore, no reason to
try to help you "understand" that all gays are NOT! as you think...
 
People like you who are closed and center minded and think THEY are
ALWAYS right...Make me sick...you know what I am getting at?
 
TopGun Strikes Again..... Sysop Of ALTnet BBS
===========

From: ETC...              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Applause       
Date & Time: 08/03/90 12:23:19
Message Number  7162

Why thank you... Charles Dickens thought so too...
===========

From: XTEVE               
To: RAVEN               
Subject: sumbody hep'me 
Date & Time: 08/03/90 13:07:25
Message Number  7164

   Hody Raven (or anybody else who is kind enough to respond.)
My new DOS 3.3 seems to be having trouble with my B: drive...
First of all It cant comprehend my driveparm "=/d:1 /c /f:2 /h:2 /s:9
/t:80"    This is supposed to tell Dos that theres a 3 1/2 inch 720k
drive in b: right?
   Give me a call on voice line sometime 351-spam (or e-mail).
                      Thanks, Xteve
P.S.: Lets try that NEC V20 mirrors thang, huh raven?
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: MAX                 
Subject: relationships 
Date & Time: 08/03/90 13:34:45
Message Number  7165

Max if you learn that your best buddy is a murder that has seved his
time and been freed from prison or that your best friend is after
money for gambling debts do you forsake him/her. I found out about ...
by putting in an inquirry. I found out about ... He doesn't know I know
Am I to ruin a lagitimate friendship by someone who needs help or am I t
o carry on as usual until he brings up the topic then say good by.
It has been five years and ... has not once brought up the topic
I feel safe around him.
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/03/90 13:44:21
Message Number  7166

Was talking to my minister today about the origins of eating fish
on Friday. Wow if the Catholics only knew that they were eating the 
fifteen part of an Egyption god. This man killed his father. The dad 
was cut up into fifteen pieces. The man's mother got all but one
piece of the husband and put them back together. The fifteen piece was 
cast into the sea where a fish ate it. We eat fish which is off
spring of that fish that ate the fifteen piece. Yuck
.s
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/03/90 13:53:37
Message Number  7167

Wrong. The perfect forms are the basis of the faith. Ask your
Church twice a week on Tuesdays and Thursdays and a requirred
set of courses have more or less turned religion off.
I hope that this answers your question.
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/03/90 14:05:56
Message Number  7168

Jonboy whast is a chair? This is what my pho\ilosophy teacher
asked our graduate class at USF. I tried several definitions and
each time the proff drew a pix on the board of two objects both 
filled the definition. So what is reality? Are you reality with 
your reference to a toilet for a name or am I reality with the
referenceof a piece of carbon with electricity going through it
for a name?
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 15:44:48
Message Number  7169

> Anyone care to take my bet?
 
  Hey, I would bet you are right. It is unfortunate but true. Most 
people, however, who would be against homosexualit probably have never 
met a homosexual.
 
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Bias in bias   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 15:47:12
Message Number  7170

> THEY'VE ALL DONE IT AT ONE TIME OR ANOTHER.
 
 Ha! And you talk about cheap shots.
 
 > IT FOLLOWS! (tm) [yours?] LOGICALLY! (tm) [again, yours?]
 
  Again, NO! Sounds like a load of manifest bullshit to me (tm by 
someone)...
 
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 15:50:19
Message Number  7171

>> ...leaves the idea of the "sickness" unproved.
> ...no, it doesn't.
 
  I don't see how  you can equate a "sickness" with something that 
doesn't happen with the majority. According to you, since homosexual sex
doesn't remotely follow the order of "nature" (which, I am assuming, is 
a man and woman producing offspring) doesn't mean it's a "sickness".
 
 Let's look at it a few ways. Let's say it's not a sickness. What's the 
problem? I know you don't agree, but...
 
  Now, (listen up) let's say it IS a sickness. What other things in the 
world are sicknesses. Oh, mental illness, alcoholism, and things along t
those lines. Those things don't make people less a part of society, and 
it doesn't call for discrimination.. 
 
  Now that I've assumed your argument, where does the issue stand? 
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 15:55:52
Message Number  7172

>> The fact that something is done different than intended doesn't 
>> indicate a sickness.
 
> It does where sexual relationships are concerned.
 
 WHY?! Back that up. I'd really like to know why. I seem to think the 
most logical idea I've heard is the one posted by Ken Ober, quoted by 
Mike Hickmon.How you look at homosexuality and sexual preference at the 
time you get an urge determines whether or not you take on that 
preference. Let me (again) compare homosexuality with other sicknesses 
that affect social interaction. If someone has a mental illness, they 
are somewhat impared for the rest of their life, but treatment helps. 
Alcoholics are alcoholics for the rest of their life. How they drink 
determines the symptoms. Yet, it has been shown that homosexuality has 
been discarded in favor of heterosexuality in the past... without and
<any treatment. How do you explain this?
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 16:02:57
Message Number  7173

> ...ANYTHING abnormal or sick is just an "odd behavior".
 
  No, you aren't understanding everything I said. I said not EVERYTHING 
can be grouped that way. YOUR examples were such where someone sticks 
their finger in their nose or butt in public. If someone sticks their 
finger in their nose, that does not indicate to me a sickness. Someone
sticking their finger in their butt indicates something different. 
  Unfortunately, you did not give an example (until now) such as people 
walking the streets of New York talking to themselves.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 16:10:53
Message Number  7174

 > It simply means that the fact that the behavior is uncommon is, by
 > itself, insufficient to prove that an illness exists...
 
  Thank you, Turtle. Glad to see that it wasn't my words that were the 
cause for The Specialist's interpretation. You PERFECTLY understood what
I meant.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 16:15:00
Message Number  7175

> ...throw in Watts and we're three of a kind. You need...
 
  I like that metaphor. Excelent, and sort of representative of the a
argument.
===========

From: SAM                 
To: -*-                 
Subject: -*-            
Date & Time: 08/03/90 16:32:51
Message Number  7176

   "Nice music, Angel. Did you write it yourself?" Sam looks at the
piano with an amused expression. More soberly, she turns her attention
to Rufus and the redshirt harrassing him. The moronic turtle was
babbling something about smuggling weapons. Like /he/ really knew what
he was talking about...yeah, right. The grunter turned to say something
to Turtle; Sam took advantage of the opportunity to slide up to Rufus.
"You OK?" she asks quietly. "Damn, these IBM guys really want you bad.
I wonder how they found you." The grunter turns his attention back
toward Rufus and asks something about a something index. Sam sneers
at him, and says "What's it to ya? Don't you have criminals to be
flogging or something?" The turtle makes a strangled noise. "Shut up,"
she tells him.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/03/90 18:57:05
Message Number  7177

Madonna is blond...Pink Floyd isn't...Mtv's got a thing for blondes, 
didn't you know that?  I'm ashamed of you!  MMtv is willing to play all
trash music, but the good stuff...well, they tease you with it by only
playing it for a second or two....
         The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: RUFUS               
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/03/90 19:00:30
Message Number  7178

Ghods I hate it when you make me laugh!  Now Rufus, love, you promised
you'd stop doing this to me!
    :>
        The Lady (Lacey to you...)
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: MIKE GREENAWALD     
Subject: aristotle      
Date & Time: 08/03/90 19:01:29
Message Number  7179

Another NS?
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 19:03:54
Message Number  7180

Who left you in charge of morality?  Last time I checked, morality 
didn't belong to those who impose judgement upon others....it bugs me
when people like yourself put down homosexuals...you've no right, or 
logical reason to do so...rember, AIDS isn't just a homosexuals 
disease...whens the last time your life was threatened?  Was it because
of your sexual preference?  You have NO right...it's people that breed 
hatred, and hatred sucks...learn to accept people for who they are...
don't try and change them or put them down...if you don't like them...
simple...STAY AWAY!
                   The LAdy
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 19:13:35
Message Number  7181

Not all of reality can be altered.  I see no reason for people to hate 
homosexuals...they have not inflicted pain upon you, why do do to them?
This should really be addressed to all the assholes on the board.  I 
hate the way you look at a homosexual and want to destroy him.  You 
wonder why we're all so fucked up?  Ever stop and look at yourselves?
I learned one thing in my short life...stop being so hateful, and start
accepting...trust me, it makes life a bit more pleasant.
accepting...trust me...it makes life a nit more pleasant.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Heart?         
Date & Time: 08/03/90 19:20:49
Message Number  7182

In fact, you did not answer my question...what is abnormal?
        The Lady ( a smartass at that, too)
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 19:21:52
Message Number  7183

Your post does not deserve a response...it's a waste of valuable breath.
         The lady
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/03/90 20:38:57
Message Number  7184

>Now Rufus, love, you promised you'd stop doing this to me!
 
Ghods, I can't do /anything/ right, can I?
 
       ...Females, I just don't grok them!
 
But at least your cute...
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
Subject: Association    
Date & Time: 08/03/90 21:29:09
Message Number  7186

If my previous message implied that homosexuals were the ones that were
responsible for the majority of incest, sexual child abuse, animal
cruelty (in a sexual manner)...etc. I did not intend that at all. In 
fact my point was meant to be that ALL of these (including 
homosexuality) are SEXUAL PREFERENCES...NOT 'sicknesses'. My point was
to be that I disagree with the morality of THESE sexual preferences
(including homosexuality). No, I don't think that a sexual preference
IS a sickness. But you could not say that incest was a sickness and NOT
just a sexual preference. Do YOU feel that child sexual abuse, incest,
beastiality, sexual S&M or any of these things are 'sicknesses', or to
you are they ALL regular choosen SEXUAL PREFERENCES???????????
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
Subject: Not-Normal???  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 21:35:28
Message Number  7187

>Who is to deictate or define "normal"??
  
You don't know???? Why you, me, them, us, I, we, they, and anyone. Are
you now stating that everyone plays by the same rules??? Should everyone
have the same definition of "normal"??? I have MY opinions, views and
beleifs....I gage them by MY rules and definitions. "Socially 
acceptable" is bullshit!!! And "Homophopbic" is a term that has been
recently used to allow homosexuals to LABEL all those who don't agree
or accept them as being SICK while standing back and saying "I'm not 
sick, it's just a SEXUAL PREFERENCE. But YOU'RE homophobic, that makes
you SICK". I have yet to label homosexuals as "sick", but using 
homophobic, you're now labelling "straight" people as being "sick".
<Whew...what a twist>
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 21:44:03
Message Number  7188

>perverse....
  
A rather "mild" term for that fad if you ask me. It would be about as
normal as my ex-junkie friends who would place micro-dot acid under 
thier eyelids, hit a needle of cold water, then hit up junk and puke
thier guts out, turn around and say "Man, this is great...".
  
BTW   Ex- because three of the four in question O.D.ed.....rip
 
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 21:47:28
Message Number  7189

>monogamy is not the general norm.
  
At least you referred to monogamy as 'normal'. As far as the 'general 
norm' goes, I hope the populus doesn't decide that eating children's
genitals for breakfast is okie-dokie....I'd disagree with that, too.
Not to be anti-social, but I base MY opinion on MY values......I hope
you base yours on your values, too. Everyone should.
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: MAX                 
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 21:52:26
Message Number  7190

I have yet to make a claim that 'homosexuals' are perverse or sick.
If I have implied such, it was by mistake. I have been mearly trying
to state that if homosexuality is a sexual preference and ONLY that,
well so is all the other things. What makes (as YOU stated) shoving
a mouse in a body cavity a sickness and NOT a sexual preference? Let's
leave out the fact that it involves taking advantage of a mouse, lab's
and high schools all over the country do that daily and you're not
screaming that THEY'RE ALL SICK. Put the actions only to the extent
that someone REALLY wants to do it and they haven't (therefore they
haven't taken advantage of anyone or hurt anyone), are they sick still??
  
I'm loosing your fine line between sickness and preference, at least
with the example of the white mice. Please explain why that is sick and
a high school kid hacking up a frog in lab (and I mean HACKING up)
is not.......
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: MAX                 
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:01:07
Message Number  7191

Sorry for the sincerity, the prejudice angainst yourself comment was
meant to be a joke. (It was told to me many years ago). I am far from
not judging others, I am also far from HATING anyone for their views,
values and opinions. I just enjoy dragging opions through the mud (such
as mine have had done), it makes people really solidify what they
REALLY believe in, and it damn well helps me clear up what I believe in.
By the way, I re-examine my thinking every day......do you? I got out
of most ruts years ago..........
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:05:34
Message Number  7192

I never meant to imply that it was limited to homosexuals, only that
there may be a fairly thin line (for most people) between what is
perverse (sick...whatever) and what is (in their mind) 'normal'. You
can't say that homosexuality is a preference and incest is a sickness
without questioning why? It all boils down to YOUR own personal
values and your definition of <ugh> 'normal'. I am not meaning to
condem (singly) homosexuals, but mainly the arguement on what determines
a 'normal' <ugh again> sexual relationship and why is it normal?
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:11:45
Message Number  7193

Oooops, now we're going to decide at what age some can give informed
sexual concent. What if a child abuser asked first? What if the child
was 12 or 14? or maybe 16? or maybe 18 an un-informed? 
I am not disputing the fact that if someone is hurt, or taken advantage
of it is WRONG,just arguing that what sexual preferences make someone
sick rather then them making 'normal' <ugh> decisions?
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:18:53
Message Number  7194

No joke....I think its' stirring up quite nicely. A good debate
(argument, whatever....) usually makes each of us question (and 
hopefully in the long run) solidify our own beliefs. I have yet to 
call anyone 'sick', and even if I do, that (once again) is my opinion.
WOW, what dictionary did you get that crap from? Hopefully not one I
have around. I would be very intereseted in what THAT dictionary says
about homosexuality.....check it out.....see ya'
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:22:38
Message Number  7195

>prejudice.....whatever
  
It was a joke that a co-worker laid on me several years ago, just 
passed it along (I guess) at the wrong time. I think you will find that 
discriminating people that discriminate would be shot to piece by the
same arguement you gave for prejudice (no sub-groups....), just
thought I'd point that out. 
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:27:05
Message Number  7196

Don't be "warping back to the 40's". We'd miss you terribly (even though
I'd like to see how we'd of turned out with you there <grin>). I think
you will find the direction of my topics to be to question each of our
beliefs and values in the realm of normality and morality, I am not
stating that anyone can't or shouldn't do something, just that "I" may
not agree with it. Hey, I think that war, pollution, apathy and other
things are far more important to "stop" then homosexuality (NOT implying
that we should "stop" homosexuality). I think a good stewing of each
of our value scales can solidify how we really feel about the world,
.....and ourselves. Sorry if I'm stirring the pot too fast.....
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: yupper         
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:34:27
Message Number  7197

Well, its' been damn hot lately. Checked out Clapton last friday,
wow, talk about bringing back ol' memories. Great show. Excuse me,
great music, Clapton ain't much show, just song. Getting a new system
at work (Compaq 386-33/380Mb HD/modem/19" VGA/...etc,etc), hope I can
pop in here at break and lunch (sometimes its rough getting in a/r). 
You've been fadin' in and out around for a few months, everything okay?
What been jumpin' on your end of the baud highway????
     sssssss <:
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BIG LEW             
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:39:18
Message Number  7198

>homosexuality is not normal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
Be sure to explain to me (maybe us), that this is your OPINION and
not FACT that we should base our lives on. Don't question me on this,
when it was told to me my testicles crawled up around my heart 
somewhere (if ya know what I mean).   In fact as far as this story
(excuse me, report) goes, I'd more concerned what happened to the
mouse. Hope he made it out okay......<grin>
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:43:40
Message Number  7199

Heck maybe from "gerbaling" they'll move to "cating", then "doging",
until they get up to "cattling" <ouch>. This guy should deserve to
be internally eaten by a mouse. Hope he tries it again. It didn't do
my appitie much good when it was first told to me. 
   It was similar (getting off the subject a little) to the feeling I
experienced when I was at Wrightsville Beach and we heard a guy
screaming at a fishing peir. By the time we got there he was being 
carted off be some friends. Turns out he had been jumping off the pier
to surf. The water was cold so he had a wetsuit top with the beaver-tail
between the legs, no support/suit. When he jumped off (about a 30' drop)
his private parts hung out of his beaver tail and when he hit the water
the impact popped his testicles right out of his scrotum....<OUCH!!!!>.
When I tell that, it still takes my breath away.....
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 22:51:14
Message Number  7200

>kosher to use......
  
Sly comment. Pickles, snakes, pool cues, bottles, whatever....the 
seeking of pleasure runs some people off the edge. You may be right on 
the validity of the tale, it was third hand (my department's 
secretary's brother). Maybe the rubber container for the mouse (baloon,
whatever) was rolled in coke...don't know.
===========

From: BIG LEW             
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/03/90 23:04:11
Message Number  7201

ANTI
===========

From: BIG LEW             
To: AJ-<TOPGUN>-        
Subject: WAS "gerbiling"
Date & Time: 08/03/90 23:11:59
Message Number  7202

Glad to hear it.........Also, where is ALTnet BBS?  Number?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: XTEVE               
Subject: sumbody hep'me 
Date & Time: 08/04/90 00:54:09
Message Number  7203

To use a 3.5" disk under Mush 3.3, you have to have a system program
called INDISK.SYS or something like that, and put a line on your
configuration file that says "DEVICE=INDISK.SYS" or whatever the hell
it's called. /Then/ it'll work. I have the Mush 3.3 version of the
3.5" disk driver kicking around here somewhere; I may even have it
on a Mush-formatted disk. If you want a copy, let me know.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: MIKE GREENAWALD     
Subject: Stuff          
Date & Time: 08/04/90 00:56:44
Message Number  7204

>Am I to ruin a lagitimate [sic] friendship by someone who needs help
>or am I to carry on as usual until he brings up the topic then
>say good by.
 
Neither one. If it's really a legitimate friendship, then either you
have loyalty to your friends or you don't; if it's the former, you
wouldn't even be asking the question, I think, and if it's the latter
then it doesn't really matter, now, does it?
 
Are your friendships always conditional on not finding out anything
about your friend that you don't like?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Association    
Date & Time: 08/04/90 01:06:24
Message Number  7205

>Do YOU feel that child sexual abuse, incest, bestiality, sexual
>S&M or any of these things are 'sicknesses'...
 
Violent, antisocial behavior is violent, antisocial behavior regardless
of its sexual content. Child sexual abuse is a sickness in exactly
the same way that child abuse is a sickness; it's a pathological
violent condition. Whether or not you'd call any form of child abuse
a sickness depends on how you look at it, I guess--most child molestors
say they can't help themselves, ditto with child abusers--but there is
no intrinsic difference between sexual and non-sexual forms of
child abuse. Same thing for animal abuse, be it sexual or non-sexual.
Rape is an act of violence; so is murder. You don't often hear people
wandering around saying murderers are "sick;" the mindset during an act
of rape is essentially the same.
 
You tell me. Would you say that a person who sexually abuses children
is sick while a person who simply beats them is healthy? Is it just
the sexual aspect that causes you to call it "sick?" A peculiar defi-
nition of sickness, if that's the case.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/04/90 01:15:53
Message Number  7206

Aha...I think we're on the same wavelength here. My point is that it's
dangerous to label any single practice a "sickness" in one sweeping
swoop, particularly something as general and widespread as homosexualiy
...you seem to be saying essentially the same thing.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/04/90 11:29:30
Message Number  7207

 > popped his testicles right out of his scrotum...
 
   OUCH!!!! is right...gheee. Wonder what happened afterwards. I have 
other questions, but I think they'd be in bad taste or be to strange. 
Not very important.
 
   Also, stick to the facts. When you mentioned jumping off a pier and 
rocks, uhh... let's just say I got a worse picture than you painted.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: definition     
Date & Time: 08/04/90 12:11:26
Message Number  7208

I was raised Southern Baptist - since we travelled a lot when I was 
young and because my parents wisely desired me to comt to my own 
conclusions about the world, I attended many different services to see
if any of them struck a resonant chord.  The chord was struck in a 
very small town in North Dakota - a black guy kept pestering me as to
what I believed.  As I had no faith etched in concrete, I kept feeling
like he was "picking" on me.  Finally, exasperated, I asked him why he
was bugging me so much.  I'll never forget the warm feeling that I got
when he said with a slow, spreading smile, "Why, because God told me
that YOU are my project!".  I finally was able to admit that I had many
questions and feelings of ambiguity about my beliefs in God.  He was
able to show me that the various systems of beliefs are like different
sets of clothes in that they might look different, be colored different,
cost more or less but that the fundamental purpose remains the same.
A slightly flawed analogy but it works on a simplistic level.  What our
talks really did for me was to cause me to be aware of what religion was
all about.  After many years of fitting together pieces that at first 
don't appear to be compatible - I have settled on a set of guidelines
that I try to follow.  I still attend Baptist Churches but am not shy to
try out someone elses services.  They all preach the Word of God and the
internal alarm system is capable of flagging erroneous teachings.  I 
stopped attending Oneco 1st Baptist for this reason and am now looking 
at Samoset Baptist.  I don't agree with all that the Southern Baptists
teach but they are so far, the closest to what I accept as the truth.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Truth          
Date & Time: 08/04/90 12:32:35
Message Number  7209

Ah yes, it is an envious thing to have a way with the written word.
Are you so blind or unconcerned that you would not look to what others
have to say about it?  They are no less eloquent and not a little
persuasive.  Or have you put on the blinders of self-deception?
I would refer you to a statement by St. Thomas Aquinas wherin he
states his "Five Ways" to prove the existance of God.  Any decent
college text on philosophy should have it.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/04/90 12:38:59
Message Number  7210

You know - you get right to the edge of understanding and AUGGGHHHH!
You run screaming from the edge.  So you admit that it is a predis-
position and not a "curable" disease.  What is it about this series of
facts that you have to respond with hatred, loathing and a total 
disregard of another human beings' feelings? 
>I am shallow, and neurotic, and
these are hardly a good example - they are all something that you can
change if you like or treated with the help of a counsellor.  Homosexual
feelings cannot be driven away or ignored as the acceptance of your fell
fellow human beings is a primary need.  Is it any wonder that the most
desperate plea of these people is not necessarily an understanding, but
merely an acceptance as a fellow human being with their own set of
needs, desires, ambitions and dreams?
					                                          JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/04/90 12:48:02
Message Number  7211

Just for curiosity - why'd ya drop from $1000 to $100.  Besides - I'd li
like to know where you can find a six-pack fr that price!  My buddy
has a desire for one on his 'Cuda.
If you really believ what you say then take me up on my gentleman's bet
and do a survey on any and all BBS's.  Give them the choice of
Like - dislike - don't care.  Sure the don't care may be a weasle's way
out but also it is a valid choice.  Some people could simply give a 
rat's fuzzy behind less whether someone is gay or not.
SP>..wise up,because "popular opinion" has spoken.
That is rather jumping the gun on your survey, don't you think?
While you percieve me as hi-n-mighty I see you as arrogant and unwashed
in your assertion that you speak for a "majority" that doesn't exist
except in a bigoted dream that you had.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Bias in bias   
Date & Time: 08/04/90 12:53:54
Message Number  7212

Glad ya hate cheap shots - I have a million of 'em that I store up for
targets that are unworthy of real ammunition.  In fact, I will relate
my personal homosexual encounter.  My friend in Junior High that lived
across the street in Georgia approached me one day about if I was 
"experienced" yet.  When I admitted that I was not he tried to persuade
me that another man was as good and explained how it was almost a
custom at certain British Boy's Schools (which is true BTW).
I declined but we remained friends.  Funny thing is - I don't think he
was gay - just a real horny adolescent.
As you will note, the definition of encounter does not obligate one to
a homosexual experience.  I would like to point out that while my
"cheap shot" was directed at you, and you alone, /your/ parting shot
included an awful lot of people on this board.  Let's practise what
we preach ok?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Guitars        
Date & Time: 08/04/90 13:01:51
Message Number  7213

Sure!  Tacos are always on the menu.  I would be a class A hypocrite if
I couldn't share a meal with someone that merely disagreed with me.
I have eveything except the last two albumns of Dan Fogelberg.  My 
favorite is the one he put out with Tim Weisberg (a jazz flautist)
called "Twin Sons of Different Mothers".
Dianne - young, brunette, sexy as hell, single, tantalizingly aloof but
friendly.
While the issue of homosexuality may be an exercise in debate for us,
I would like for you to consider the fact that there are millions of
people in the world that must live within this framework every day of
their life.  Is there ANY reason for someone that is blessed with a
a socially accepted lifestyle to persecute and harrangue a fellow
human being because they have a different lifestyle?  The problem is
in the same league as discrimination against Blacks.  They are born
the color that they are and do not deserve to be hounded to their 
grave for a genetic difference.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: JOB            
Date & Time: 08/04/90 13:10:34
Message Number  7214

I use MetraByte signal conditioning cards for the thermistor, RTD and
thermocouple signals.  These are run into MetraByte A/D cards (DAS-8)
and I use MetraByte PIO24's for 24 channels of I/O to turn stuff on/off
and get digital signals.  We also use Data Translation and all sorts of
stuff by Allen Bradley, Omron and Cutler Hammer.
Here's a hint: I use the transparency material especially for copiers
and use the laser printer to print the PCB design for use in one-off
printed circuits.  Works good but you have to watch for breaks in the 
traces on the material and the exposure is critical.
OrCAD PCB is an unfriendly beast that makes you wonder whether the same
people wrote the damned thing or not.  It HAS to have over 560K AVAILABL
to do autorouting which means a very bare config.sys with only the
mouse driver extra.  Doesn't support any EMS or extended memory either.
I guess I'm hinting that it's a piece of shit, except that it DOES
layout a PCB pretty quick but I feel the optomization could be better.
I like smoothly flowing lines and it likes stairstep stuff with some
really bizarre bends.  Oh well, better than without!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Guitars        
Date & Time: 08/04/90 13:22:18
Message Number  7215

Why not?  Jean Luc Ponty and Roy Harper play electrified fiddles.
I have a spare pickup or two.  Voila! ElectroBow Rock-n-roll psaltry!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: OOps!          
Date & Time: 08/04/90 13:26:04
Message Number  7216

T>we're three of a kind, you need an inside straight or better to beat u
 
Uhhhh, couldn't /he/ be considered a "straight" (in gay vernacular)?
I get it!  He's an /outside/ straight!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: MIKE GREENAWALD     
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/04/90 13:31:21
Message Number  7217

The concept of variety and a sharing in forms or "participating" in a
form may be novel to you but is not very useful when applied to 
explaining reality.  A much better variation that is closely realated wa
was produced by a behavioralist names Piaget.  He came up with the
concept of "schemes" and uses his theory of schemes to explain the
learning process in children and the ability of the brain to concep-
tualize widely differing bits of information.  Much more useful than
a Platonian universe where pure forms converse with physical objects
that borrow from these perfect forms.  The simplest example I can give
of where Platonian forms break down is the mechanism behind the 
transmutation of an object.  How do forms explain autumn leaves turning?
They already participate in the form of leaf with subclass Maple.
(Gee sounds like OOPs in Smalltalk! - Imagine Plato the worlds first
OOPs programmer!) but what is te mechanism for a burning log? It starts
out borrowing from tree trunk and ends up with (dirt?)  The mechanism 
of change is the weak link in the philosophy.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/04/90 13:47:52
Message Number  7218

SB>fact that it involves taking advantage of a mouse, lab'sand high 
SB>schools all over the country do that daily
SB>high school kid hacking up a frog in lab 
 
I have to agree with you if you are stating that using animals for 
the sake of convenience in a school is immoral.  In fact there are
many trying to banish the practise as cruel and barbaric.  I barely
squeeked by in High School because I refused to cut up my frog.  It 
was pointed out that it "was already dead" my reply - "If I cut it up
then I am a participant in the crime".  With otherwise perfect grades
I got a C- for the year.
I used to try and find homes for the lab rats at the college after the
psych students finished teaching them to run a maze.  The old system
gave them to a pet store but I investigated and discovered that they
fed the helpless rats to rather large snakes.  My personal rat was
named Bubba Ignatz and was taught to run the maze without any form of
torture being applied.
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:17:34
Message Number  7219

The objection I have to hell is that my grass wont quit growing!!! Thats
right...I'M IN HELL!!! I dont water it, I dont fertalize (sp?) it, I 
dont even talk to it..BUT IT KEEPS ON GROWING! Grass from hell...thats
what it is.........
                    The Yngling (from hell..)
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:21:38
Message Number  7220

>Or Pink Floyd.
ditto.
           The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:26:11
Message Number  7221

"Never underestimate the value of early training and proper breaking 
in."
           -Nicholas Proffitt
            Gardens of Stone
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: spam           
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:28:10
Message Number  7222

Dont apologize Jon, it WAS funny.
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: $$$            
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:31:05
Message Number  7223

Well, he said security check...but even if he /meant/ credit check -
those are usually easier than sec. checks but cost more than $35 unless
you're set up to do a lot of them.
                        The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:41:15
Message Number  7224

>Madonna sells more than Pink Floyd
Yes, but will the platinum blond with platinum boobs be around for 24
years? I think (and hope) not.
                            The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Earth?         
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:51:51
Message Number  7226

Dear Lady,
I have been enslaved by my lawn! Help!
                   The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Homosexuals    
Date & Time: 08/04/90 16:54:21
Message Number  7227

Specialist -
Hey. Been a long time.
I've kept out of this straights vs gays arguement but I had to jump in
with some advice (un-asked for tho' it might be).
I think its obvious that you are not going to change your mind concern-
ing this issue and you're not going to change anyone else's opinion so
why continue to kick a dead dog?
Personally, I dont care if homosexuality is genetic or by preference or
is the result of drinking City of Bradenton water...I am not a homosex-
ual, do not care to associate with homosexuals, but do not get drunk
and go "fag-bashing" either.  I have known a few gay men in my time and
I didnt like them /before/ I found out about their sexual preference,
but it was certain aspects of their personalities which all three (a
limited test group I'll admit) shared which I disliked which leads me to
believe it may have been a result of the type of personality group
which are homosexual or have homosexual tendencies.  If I'm wrong - oh
well.  I may have friends who are gay & I dont know it ... but I doubt
it.
  Anyway, it really doesnt matter /why/ someone is homosexual so why
continue to argue about it?  Debate is fine but after a while certain
issues ( like abortion and homosexuality) are reduced to tedious,
repetitive statements that begin to take on the flavor of "Oh yeah?
So's yer mother!"
   Well, thats all I have to say.  Glad to see you back on the boards.
                                The Yngling
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Alarm bells    
Date & Time: 08/04/90 22:15:36
Message Number  7228

>...the internal alarm system is capable of flagging erroneous
>teachings.
 
Yeowch! That 'un set off /my/ internal alarms...do you really believe
that you know God well enough to know instantly when you hear something
contradictory to what He'd say in the same place, or does your internal
alarm simply react to a statement that you either don't believe in or
for some reason don't like?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Guitars        
Date & Time: 08/04/90 22:26:57
Message Number  7229

Oooooookey....so, once you actually /have/ an electric bowed psaltry,
what do you /do/ with it? (Me, I just want to see what it'd sound
like...)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Bwoing!        
Date & Time: 08/04/90 22:28:28
Message Number  7230

>I get it! He's an /outside/ straight!
 
I'm happy the pun wasn't wasted...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/04/90 22:32:46
Message Number  7231

You're lucky that /all/ you have to deal with is grass from hell. Me,
I have the car from hell, the neighbors from hell, the BBS software from
hell...hell, I'm thinking about turning Hell into a subsidiary!
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Stuff          
Date & Time: 08/04/90 22:56:06
Message Number  7232

You opened up the door so now walk through it. Who is Turtle and why the
name? I know the why for the name from your early morning wonderings
but why?
You see that I can lead you down the marry path also. This is nor NS but
rather a test of your word.
Sam is a topic that needs an answer also.
Turtlwe get your head out of the shell and talk a little. Just do not
use caps.
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/04/90 23:05:51
Message Number  7233

I usually stay away from the topic you are discussing. I want to say tha
your summary is beautiful. I like the way you changed the feelings that 
the Spoecialist expressed from negative to a way to grow.
I am homophobic to an extent but your statement opened me up to a greate
r understanding. I believe that I could really accept a gay lady/man
and not feel astranged at this point.. 
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/04/90 23:17:48
Message Number  7234

What is reality for you is not reality for another.
I had a child steal a can of paint today at Sears. He explained that
he took it because it was there in a big pile of paint. He had a
need for it and my boss had plenty. He did not understand why the store
was so upset. The child was about thirteen and he wanted the paint for
his new bike.
The child was from the islands where poperty is held in common. In his s
if a woman is a good cook then she cooks for the whole clan. Taking
the paint was ok to him because his society said that it was ok.
The store had plenty.
Please explain this.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: ...            
Date & Time: 08/05/90 00:13:37
Message Number  7235

Thanks for answering my question; it was interesting to hear your back-
ground.  Like Turtle, I was somewhat startled at your statement about
recognizing erroneous statements.  I can't say why, but that made me
do a double-take.
   Anyway, from the tenor of your past statements, I had guessed you
were Southern Baptist.  I'm glad to see I wasn't off.  [Looking over
what I just said, let me make sure you understand, that's not a 
put-down.  My Grandmother's Southern Baptist and her theological
reasoning is similar to yours.  That's how I recognized it].
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: ...                 
Subject: ...            
Date & Time: 08/05/90 00:23:30
Message Number  7236

     Two digs from _her_ in as many minutes... Angel was keeping score.
Sam was fortunate that Angel's grey eyes couldn't kill. 
     She removed the remains of the roll from the player piano.
Opening the instrument she began to examine the extent of the damage.
Many of the strings were broken, and the felts on several of the
hammers were a bit singed ... all that could be fixed.  But the worst
damage was to the sounding board.  It had a rather large hole where the
designer had never intended one.
     "Afraid it's a lost cause," she said to Xon.  "Should your
employer ask, tell him I'll send someone to remove the wreckage.  In
the meantime, I think I'll tidy myself up."  She retrieved her cape,
but realizing the mass of sodden and singed cloth was also a hopeless
cause, she dropped it in a waste bin on her way out the door.
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 01:06:49
Message Number  7237

Jesus Christ Snakebyte! THat story has a pucker factor of about 10!  I
hate to even think about it! [shudder]
                   THe Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: ALL                 
Subject: Oops!         
Date & Time: 08/05/90 01:16:27
Message Number  7238

It appears as though I may have made it difficult for anyone else to get
through to this bbs for 15 - 30 minutes during the wee hours of 8/5/90.
I apologize to anyone who might have been pulling out their hair in
frustration and to Turtle who was probably inconvenienced more than any-
one else.  
                    A contrite The Yngling :}
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Bias in bias   
Date & Time: 08/05/90 06:29:15
Message Number  7240

> 70% have Homosexual experiences ... bla ... bla ... bla
 
Okay, so 70% of the people in this country are "Homosexual" at one time
or another, so The Specialist is in the MINORITY ... Which means /he/ is
sick ... 70% of the populas can't be sick ... It must be that 30% which 
has that little "problem"
 
IT FOLLOWS! (tm) LOGICALLY! (tm)
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/05/90 06:40:32
Message Number  7241

> Madonna is blond...
 
And you're not, so you can enver have your own Mtv special, while I can.
 
HA!
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Really placid  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 06:41:25
Message Number  7242

> Who left you in charge of morality?
 
Nothing much to say here, 'ecpt ... GHODS, I LOVE THAT STATEMENT....
 
Grrr ... Yip!
 
I feel much better now....
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: ALL                 
Subject: gee...         
Date & Time: 08/05/90 06:47:09
Message Number  7243

I wonder if we locked up the Specialist in a room with AJ for a couple
years.... I wonder how long it woul dtake The Specialist to turn Gay ...
 
Of course, he'd always have the option of killing himself...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: ALL                 
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/05/90 06:48:12
Message Number  7244

Of the messages on this system...
 
70% .... "I hate gays!  They are sick!"
         "No they aren't, just different!"
         "Hey, everyone is gay once .... It's normal!"
         "Bash Gays!"
 
10% .... "I have a friend, his name is ...."
         "You are the most inconherent person on this BBS!"
 
10% .... "I have a MusH-DOS machine, and I have a problem..."
         "Well, I'd say the reason it keeps exploding is...."
 
10% .... "God is ..........."
 
Can we all say BBBBBBBOOOOOORRRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG?
 
I knew we could .... for the past month or so, this BBS has been the
same old stuff going nowhere .... Kinda' like Beyond Chaos, except
the arguements are (A) Civilized, and (B) More intelligent....
 
C'Mon people!  LET'S GET A MOVE-ON!  
 
We will never decide....
 
If homosexuality is (A) Normal, (B) Stange, or (C) A sickness
If God is (A) Real, (B) Fake, or (C) really George Burns
If Mike Greenwald is (A) Ill, (B) Normal, or (C) God
If MusH-DOS Machines (A) Work, (B) Don't Work, or (C) are Homosexual
If Rufus will (A) Explode, (B) Get arrested, or (C) Pop-Off
If this BBS will (A) Move on, (B) Stay here, (C) Send back lovley 
   color photos that prove life really /does/ exist on Mars, but
   consists of people who just argue about things that will never be
   worked out all day long, and therefore are fairly useless until
   they decide that their arguements are futile, and they should move
   on with their lives....
 
-- This has been a piblic service announcement from the Ken Ober Society
   of People Who Really Don't Give a Hoot if Homosexuality is Normal or
   Not, and Would Really Rather Have Everyone Start a New Subject....
 
"Byte Stick .... Byte Stick .... Byte Stick!"
 
Opps!  I can't do that here, I guess, but it was worth a try....
 
That's the news, and I'm outta' here.....
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:01:34
Message Number  7245

> pucker factor of about 10!  I hate to even think about it!
 
  I can think of worse things. I have an acute fear of puncturing of my
skin and eyeballs [big shudder]
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: spam           
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:08:08
Message Number  7246

I figured the "wha-huh?" response may have been ennui and so apologised
if the joke was so old that they had to scrape the dinosaur dung off
before they recognized it...
 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Homosexuals    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:11:31
Message Number  7247

Gee!  You *remember* those abortion discussions huh?  I ignord every one
of them until it finally died a /richly/ deserved death.  This subject
along with God may be there too.
The problem with God is that the debate has continued for millenia and
no one is really any closer.  There have been many many classes of
philosophical arguments put forth that simply serve to entage those that
insist there is no God.  It is exactly as you state... nobody is going
to change anothers mind if they don't want ti to be.  I guess the reason
debates carry on is that most people have this real desire - nay! NEED
to be vindicated in their opinions.  The way to do this is to *win* a
debate by having the other person admit  they stood on faulty ground.
Not damned likely in the case of a built in bias (aka bigotry).
   To changer the subject - my battle plan against grass worked out
rather well.  My neighbor finally desired to know /when/ I was going to
mow my grass.  I asked if that was a volunteer on his part.  He screwed
up and said he would mow it for $15.  Chortling with glee I informed
him that he had just won the "JonBoy Cash Crop Award" with the winnings
to be counted in bales.  Hehehehehe....  
Y'know there are a group of people in the world that really puzzle me...
they tie themselves down by umbiblical cords undreamed of 40 years ago.
I have seen people fall over things, stumble up - rush - fall again, 
curse, stumble up and finally reach the phone that has been yammering
away all this time.  I saw my roommate in Cal;ifornia come staggering
out of the bathroom, interrupting a perfectly normal rite of defecation,
to answer a phone because I said I was busy and it would wait.  Why?
I class people that are compulsive about there lawns that way (no
implication on /you/ I hasten to add - your spirit is unwilling and that
makes you OK in my book).  Puzzles me why people tie themselves up..
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Alarm bells    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:24:10
Message Number  7248

Maybe "subliminal uneasiness" would be a better word.  Yes, I can hear
something that on the surface does not appear to be all that "wrong"
but it makes me feel uneasy.  I will look up references in the Book and
lo and behold, usually there has been either an omission or an outright 
falsehood (I should say mistake but it's his /duty/ to be accurate!)
The Bible tells us that the Holy Spirit is there to counsel and 
"translate" for us.  I see absolutely no reason to doubt that this is
what I am experiencing.  Sometimes the "internal alarm" simply warms
up and I can get a profitable study session on what has been discussed.
   As an interesting sidelight, my Dad, who did not accept Christ until
he was in his 40's, syas he is the same way, I asked him once because I
noticed that sometimes during a sermon he would read the Bible and only
occasionally come up for air.  He said that he was just "nudged" to read
further in what was started in the scripture quote.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Bwoing!        
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:31:54
Message Number  7249

Ahhh c'mon... do I see the beginnings of a miff growing?
Back to the subject of rock-n-roll psaltries - they would probably
sound like hell since so much of the psaltry' ssurface area is used
to resonate, the pickup would noticable interfere.  Maybe a Marcus
Berry "Hot-Dot" piezo pickup would be better.  This would effectively
preserve the timre and tone making it just amplified.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: MIKE GREENAWALD     
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:36:44
Message Number  7250

If he could explain himself that glibly, then he's been here long 
enough to know better.
                                  JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: ...            
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:38:08
Message Number  7251

Yer a sweetheart!  Please see my reasoning to Turtle.  The feeling is 
real and I believe can manifest itself if the need is strong enough.
A short (maybe) story:  I was having a hell of a time in a long-distance
conversation with my ex-wife as we were in the process of reconciling.
She insisted that when I was watching our daughter (who was 2) in the
back yard that I didn't pay close enough attention.  I was insisting 
that simply because I "turned my head" for an instant did not make me
inattentive.  She was adamant in that I was being neglectful.  Well we
ended up banging the phone down on each other and I distinctly remember
feeling that somehow I was wrong but I literally shrugged it off.  I was
still feeling kinda PO'd when I left to go up to the college.  I got up 
to the street corner and there she was!  A tiny girl holding a doll and
cars zooming around her in the busy street!  I couldn't believe my eyes
and felt my heart drop as I was sure she would bolt and get run over.
I looked for adults and there weren't any.  I turned off my car and ran
into the street and brought the little girl back to the sidewalk.  I 
walked 2 blocks west then back until I found someone; "Do you know where
this little girl lives?".  They pointed me to a house and I went to the
front door.  A nice-looking young lady opened the door with a "what the
hell are you doing with my kid" sort of look.  I explained and she 
immediately RAN into the back yard and came back with a perplexed 
husband.  "Well I only turned my head for a minute - I thought that YOU
had her!"  I left with them still arguing in /exactly/ the same sort
of language that I had been using with my ex not an hour prior.
Serendipity?  /I/ don't think so.  I think that I (and probably the
family too) were the beneficiary of a real-life lesson.  As soon as
I admitted to myself that I had been wrong - I felt much better inside.
Comments?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Bias in bias   
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:53:09
Message Number  7252

>Okay, so 70% of the people in this country are "Homosexual" at one time
 
You folks are quick to jump the gun ... I said a homosexual /experience/
this does mean any sort of consummation or long-term behavior - just
simply an isolated incident.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/05/90 09:56:47
Message Number  7253

I was always told that a very good policy is "never bring up a 
problem without offering a solution".  What devastatingly witty and
totally irrelevant issue would you like to discuss?  Subjects that
are in the paper are good but the real prpoblem was summed up by
King Solomon in Ecclesiastes a couple of thousand years ago.  There 
really is "nothing new under the sun".  No matter what we discuss or
beat up - it has in fact been beat up and/or discussed before.  So
why do we waste our time anyway?
The real reason we do this is because we are social creatures and desire
the company of our peers.  The computer aviled communication is this
social strata's calling card - all others /cannot/ apply.  So we 
simply socialize - which amounts to a lot of social banter and
wasted time (if a meaningful result is considered valid work).
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 10:03:08
Message Number  7254

When I was 10, we were visting my relatives in Texas.  My uncle John 
and I were playing tag in the field next to the house.  I tripped and
fell against the chicken-wire fence.  My Uncle came over to help me
up.  His eyes got big and he grabbed me under one arm and reached over
with his other.  Things happened so fast - I was appalled when I was
finally at the doctors with an Ice-Pak against my head and the doctor
was telling my Mom they could sew it back on with a good chance of 
success.  I had totally ripped my ear off and it was hanging on the
fence still when my Uncle ran up!  It healed excellently BTW when you're
young and the cartilage hasn't hardened it can mend itself.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: YNGLING             
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 11:35:36
Message Number  7256

If you want your grass to stop growing, just pave over the whole thing.
Which reminds, I have two lawns to mow.  They're getting so big we've
lost a few poodles in there.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 11:38:52
Message Number  7257

Hell, you mean that 11 acre area east of I-75?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/05/90 11:42:09
Message Number  7258

>And you're not, so you can enver have your own Mtv special, while I
>can. 
 
Oh good, it'll be "Just Scream Yuppie."  What a good idea, you can have
your own show and say things like "Gee, Exxon is 10 cents cheaper, so
I'll buy it."
 
And before you say it...Yes, I'm being an asshole, but that's what it's
all about.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/05/90 11:45:11
Message Number  7259

>"Byte stick .... Byte Stick .... Byte Stick!"
 
Damn, I was gonna say that in response to your message....
 
"Byte THIS!"
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 11:50:57
Message Number  7260

Arrrggh.....first testicles, now ears, what's going to fall off next?
[sorry, that wasn't meant as a joke, I've just noticed this string of
"he lost this....this fell off....blood everywhere...]
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Homosexuals    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 14:58:15
Message Number  7261

 I don't know about anyone else, I have learned a lot from the debates, 
thought about my positions, and learned better ways to reiterate my ways
of thinking and stating my opinion... Example... after thnking over the 
issue of homosexuality, debating sickness or not, I finally realized 
things. These things hadn't been coming to me, and since I didn't think 
of them before, I was lost. Sorry about the repetitive nature of that 
thing above.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/05/90 15:05:56
Message Number  7262

  I have another subject (which may or may not open a can of worms, like
my message on religion and rock)... I noticed lately that more films 
going before the MPAA have been recieving X ratings. Very odd to some, 
since the opponents believe older R rated films had  the same sort of 
contents. One film appealed the rating and won (without making c uts in 
the film.
 
  The proposed solution would be to create a new rating. The MPAA seems 
to be saying no. Why? It would be a perfect solution for the present. 
The X rating has been copied and abused to hell and back. The MPPA still
claims ownership, and I believe it could be used as a scare tactic in 
censorship. "Oh, this film advocates free thinking. Give it an X, so no
theatre will show it and it will make no money."
 
  A big load of manifest bull****.  Opinions?
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 15:12:32
Message Number  7263

> ...when you're young and the cartilage hasn't hardened, it can mend 
> itself.
 
  That's an interesting story. I was speakin, however, of things more 
along the lines of my paranoia (Yes, I'm quite sure I'm just paranoid). 
I am constantly afraid of someone coming into my home at night with a 
knife. I don't like knives or razor blades. I don't like being near them
(Well, eating utencils don't count, except for those BIG ones)... the 
other thing I don't like thinking of (this really isn't paranoia, just a
sick thought) is having the pointed twisty ends on a wire fence (sort of
like barbs on barbed wire) going into your eyes. I think of that every
once in a blue moon while looking at one of those fences.
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: greener grass..
Date & Time: 08/05/90 16:50:01
Message Number  7265

Jonboy-
Much as I hate taking care of the damned stuff I have to admit it /does/
look better after it has been mowed, trimmed, raked, etc. ad naseum....
Besides, if I dont mow then my wife wont do the housework (division of
labor and all of that) and pretty soon I'll be stumbling around in the
A.M. hollering, "Dont I have any clean socks?! Wheres my white shirt?!"
Life was so much simpler once..................
                              The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 16:57:36
Message Number  7266

I covered an accident once where a guy fell over on his motorcycle
doing about 60 mph, and somehow managed to come up running - but 
couldnt stop due to the inertia and ran through a barbed wire fence.
Cut him into three pieces slick as a whistle.  True story.
                          the Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: MPAA           
Date & Time: 08/05/90 17:01:03
Message Number  7267

I have the distinct impression that the MPAA board that makes the
ratings decisions is composed of "Mrs. Grundys" and probably should be
done away with all together.
                           The Yngling
===========

From: SUNTAN              
To: SYSOP               
Subject: bbs            
Date & Time: 08/05/90 17:38:38
Message Number  7268

thanks for your help.  I'm new at this (as you can tell) and feeling my 
way around.  since I have your undivided attention, when you download a
pgm how do you run it?  I have one from another bbs and the last 3 
letters are zip.  can't get it to run.  bought the p/c used and the 
books that came with it are mainly about dos.
===========

From: SUNTAN              
To: SYSOP               
Subject: downloading    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 18:12:56
Message Number  7269

holy cow it worked!  THANKS MUCH  now if I can figure out how to run it
I'll be all set.  Do you know where I can get an owner's manual for 
IBM/PC.  It's a fairly old version made in 1980 (I think).  Everything
in the computer stores and book stores is technical, dry, and boring
and usually pertains to MSDOS or new word processing programs.
Again, thanks for your help on downloading.  I appreciate it. DG
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: YNGLING             
Subject: greener grass..
Date & Time: 08/05/90 20:42:16
Message Number  7270

Lawns do look better after they are mowed, and I'm a little richer after
mowing.  One thing I hate are mowers that catch the grass.  Those things
are a pain in the a**.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 20:59:57
Message Number  7271

Oh no!  Feral poodles are the *worst*  wayuhl sherruf, ifn ya need ta
get up a pawsee lemme know...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/05/90 21:02:56
Message Number  7272

Unfortunately - there is a very good possibility that you are right.
It's called power and abuse therof.  So many things start out as 
a Good Thing and turn into a political fiasco instead of a public
service.  A good example that /I/ ran into was UL approval on a circuit
that I was considering marketing myself.  Did you know that they have
the gall to tell you that without sufficient "financial research
initiatves" that it can take up to eight years to get UL approval?
GE for example pays up and only has to provide a representative
sample and get virtually rubber stamped through for the entire
product line.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 21:07:45
Message Number  7273

I love knives.  I think that a well-made knife is a thing of
surpassing beauty.  As far as being paranoid - the brain has ways to
tell you that some things are going to really hurt and you would 
regret it for the rest of your life.  I see idiots every day at work
bitching about wearing their safety glasses.  I wish I still had the
posted with the blow up of the dude with a sliver the size of a sewing
needle protruding from it!  I personally scratched my cornea from a 
piece of solder-coated wire that fell from above behind my safety 
glasses.  Itched and burned for three days.
Another pet peeve (probably because I love music so) is idiots that 
blow air guns and operate noisy machinery with no ear protection.  I
personally have met enough deaf old toolmakers to see where you end up.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: ...            
Date & Time: 08/05/90 21:23:16
Message Number  7274

>As soon as I admitted to myself that I had been wrong - I felt much
>better inside.  Comments?
   No.  Interesting story, but I'm not sure what point you are trying
to make.  Side question -- how many kids do you have?
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/05/90 21:32:57
Message Number  7275

I'm not sure about the MPAA, but the network censors supposedly change
their standards regularly to match societal changes.  Example, Saturday
Night Live has been prohibited from re-running certain former programs
that originally met broadcast standards, but are now deemed 
unacceptable, mostly due their message that drug use is acceptable.
"Just Say No Thank You".
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/05/90 22:54:45
Message Number  7276

Sure 'nuff. Are you aware of what "Titties 'n Beer" is about from
Frank Zappa Live From New York?
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Defective...   
Date & Time: 08/05/90 22:56:37
Message Number  7277

How in the hell do you bring 'what' a piss poor social judicial 
system has determined to be "criminal acts" into the picture????
Shit, now we gonna discuss how masterbation is illegal in Oregon, 
and sex in a shopping cart is illegal in Mississippi???? Gawd......
Wheither the sexual act is "forced" or not is not the topic. The topic
was (shall I repeat again), what determines a sexual preference or
a sickness. Let's leave such petty judicial determinations out of this.
Now is sexual acts with a minor an act forced upon someone??? What makes
you say the minor didn't want it??? At what age does someone make a 
proper sexual decision???? How can you state that all those are "forced"
acts?????? Arghhhh!!! You "KNOW" that those sheep don't want to get
it from some "human"?????? WOW!!!! What insight!!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Bias in bias   
Date & Time: 08/05/90 23:03:23
Message Number  7278

Masculine and feminine are qualities of a particular gender. So what?
If all men started wearing dresses and sporting lace undies, that
would become a masculine trait.....The issue is what says this 
homosexual thing is a "decision" and other deviant <yes, I'm saying
deviant because it strays from the norm....> sexual preferences are
uncontrollable sicknesses???? It would take the same warping of my
morals to be sexually attracted to a guys ass as it would to be 
attracted to a 6 year old or a bitch <yeah, female dog...>. To me,
and I guess a lot of other people, I can't gather the logic or desire
to "that" decision......any of them.
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/05/90 23:08:55
Message Number  7279

Thanx, a breath of air amongst the stench.....I've been enjoying
the battle, but preparing a "canned" message to respond with <grin>.
Freedom of choice.....<puke>. I'm not telling anyone to stop doing
what they're doing, just explain to me <us>, how "that" can be a 
choise or a preference, and sexual acts with children, animals,
brick walls and small kitch appliances are all "sicknesses", "crimes"
and whatever and not preferences.....geeeez.
   See ya'
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: AJ <TheGUN)    
Date & Time: 08/05/90 23:13:36
Message Number  7280

What AJ's sexual preference is, is not my debate. I'm practicing
"safe modeming", so I'm not worried. This is a debate of a topic,
not anyone in particular's personal qualities....we're all BBSers
here and should respect each other for that. I don't want to start
drawing lines or labelling others....let's just throw words, they
don't hurt...usually.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: greener grass..
Date & Time: 08/06/90 00:00:46
Message Number  7281

> As much as I hate taking care of the damned stuff...
 
  Wanna hear something really odd... my parents don't want me to mow out
lawn when they're not home... I approached my father twice and asked if 
the lawn should be mowed... then, he went to the store and said later...
when he got back, it poured rain. I feel quite lucky.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: MPAA           
Date & Time: 08/06/90 00:03:08
Message Number  7282

> should be done away with all together.
 
  Well, I doubt that will happen. It made people happy to have it back 
in '68, so they'll be keeping it. Without a system, there's gonna be 
more controversy than there is now... 
 
  One odd thing about ratings... I was always under the impression that 
"Red Dawn" was the first PG13 film ever... but a reputableentertainment 
writer (who writes movie reviews for some sources and writes for Starlog
...) I chatted by echo with once said that Steven Spielberg requested a 
new rating for "Indiana Jones and the Temple Of Doom". What was odd was 
that he would NOT back down, and I haven't been able to find evidence to
support either claim, except for the video, which doesn't help in 
theatre matters...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/06/90 00:10:18
Message Number  7283

> ...Saturday Night Live has been prohibited...
 
  Woah!! Tell me more! This sounds interesting... how old are the 
episodes you speak of?  I do  remember an odd thing. An episode of SNL I
watched when I first started watching was repeated twice that season, 
but the sketches were re-arranged, and one sketch was completely missing
(a take off on the TV film "Amerika" called "Amerida"...)... I also feel
a strange feeling that the reruns have been altered in some way... I'd
like to see what happens to the sketch which was censored by NBC when 
Andrew Dice Clay was on. I didn't think he'd go over like he did. One 
sketch of dirty material. A miracle...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: MIKE GREENAWALD     
Subject: Stuff          
Date & Time: 08/06/90 01:37:18
Message Number  7284

>You opened the door so now walk through it.
 
Huh?
 
>You see that I can lead you through the marry path also.
 
Is that a proposition? What "marry path" might that be?
 
>[This is]...a test of your word.
 
What is? Excuse me, Sir, but what the HELL are you talking about?
 
>Sam is a subject that needs an answer also.
 
Okay, the answer is 42.
 
I hate to be nasty, but I don't have the slightest idea what it is
you're trying to say. If your message is supposed to convey anything
meaningful to anyone who reads it, it's lost on me. What, exactly, is
a "test of my word"? What about Sam "needs an answer"? No offense, but
you're the single most incoherent individual I think I've ever seen.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Bias in bias   
Date & Time: 08/06/90 01:43:34
Message Number  7285

Okay, for the record:
 
IT FOLLOWS! LOGICALLY! is a trademark of The Specialist.
Manifest Bullshit is a trademark of Jonboy.
aLTER rEALITY and the A/R logo are trademarks of Anarchy Now, Inc.
UNIX is a registered trademark of AT&T/Bell Labs.
MSTF and Mythagoras are trademarks of Concept Alliance.
"Yip!" is a trademark of Bartholomew Fox.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Bwoing!        
Date & Time: 08/06/90 01:52:49
Message Number  7286

>...do I see the beginnings of a miff growing?
 
Nt at all...I was simply very tired when I commented on the probable
value of an electric bowed psaltry.
 
I like the instrument itself, but I'm not convinced that an electrified
version would be much more than Stringed Death from Hell. A magnetic
pickup in such a device would be a Bad Thing (tm)... :) I mentioned it
originally because it's hard to imagine an instrument that one would be
less likely to want to construct if one were sane, except perhaps an
electric accordian--and I know those exist (although I have my doubts 
about the sanity of someone who would own such a thing.) Perhaps some
electric bagpipes???..???..???
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/06/90 02:01:01
Message Number  7287

>...there really is "nothing new under the sun".
 
Naaah--I don't buy that statement. Here's a question for you, though:
Do you believe that a truly sapient artificial intelligence would be a
self-determining entity with the same rights accorded people, or would
it simply be a machine subject to ownership just like any other
mechanical device?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: gates of...    
Date & Time: 08/06/90 02:03:43
Message Number  7288

No, no, no, not that...I mean the /real/ Hell. You know, the divine
wrath-of-God hell. "Hell: A Subsidiary of Anarchy Now, Inc. Under New
Management." I bet I could fix that climate-control problem.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: New Subject    
Date & Time: 08/06/90 02:07:00
Message Number  7289

>I don't like knives or razor blades.
 
Blasphemer! Heathen! Unclean beast! I /love/ knives; I used to collect
'em ('til some of my more...um.../exotic/ ones got reallocated by an
ex-roommate, that is.) How can anyone be /afraid/ of knives? By them-
selves, they're just inert bits of metal; it's kinda like being
afraid of telephones, or carpets, or any other random objects. It
seems to me to be more profitable to be afraid of the /person/ carrying
the knife...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SUNTAN              
Subject: bbs            
Date & Time: 08/06/90 02:12:05
Message Number  7290

You can't run a .ZIP file. .ZIP means the file inside has been ZIPped;
it's a technique of compressing the file, kinda like folding it up and
putting it in a box so it takes less room. You gotta find an unZIP
program (it's called "pkunzip") and run that on the .ZIP file first.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SUNTAN              
Subject: downloading    
Date & Time: 08/06/90 02:14:58
Message Number  7291

I don't know where you can find a PC manual still floating around;
IBM hasn't made the baseline PC for /years/. You might be well-
advised to get a good book on Mush-DOS. The file you downloaded isn't
a program, it's a text file; you can look at it by typing
"TYPE filename" at the MS-DOS prompt, where "filename" is the name of
the file you downloaded.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/06/90 02:18:12
Message Number  7292

Neat thing about the MPAA--the person who pretty much singlehandedly
runs the thing /hates/ it and doesn't like the idea of rating movies
at all. He created it because he thought it was the lesser of two evils;
when it was formed there was a considerable amount of public pressure
building for some sort of regulatory board, and he figured that an
internal ratings board was preferable to an external censorship board
that was subject to pressure from governmental and lobbying agencies.
I do wish the MPAA had copyrighted the "X" rating, though, or would at
least replace it with a new rating ("A" for adult?) that /was/ copy-
righted and couldn't be used by every porno-flick producer who wandered
down the pike.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Knifes         
Date & Time: 08/06/90 02:21:48
Message Number  7293

>I think a well-made knofe is a thing of surpassing beauty.
 
You too, huh? I can't help getting shivers when I think about the
katanas that came out of Japan's feudal period; those things took
years to make and have survived for literally centuries. They're some
of the most beautiful objects in the world; no wonder they're generally
regarded with something like religious awe, and taking one out of Japan
is currently considered treason...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/06/90 06:35:25
Message Number  7294

> would you discuss???
 
Nice weather today, isn't it .... Sorry ... I DID bring up a problem 
without a solution...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: RUFUS               
Subject: VH-1           
Date & Time: 08/06/90 06:37:18
Message Number  7295

> Oh good, it'll be "Just SCream Yuppie."  What a good idea, you can
> have your own show and say things like "Gee, Exxon is 10 cents cheaper
> , so I'll buy it."
 
Look, that remark was sarcastic when I said it, and you know it... 
You're being an asshole!
 
> And before you say it...Yes, I'm being an asshole, but that's what 
> it's all about.
 
That's all it is with you, isn't it?  And I thought you were a nice guy.
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Moral/Popular  
Date & Time: 08/06/90 06:40:07
Message Number  7296

> what's going to fall off next?
 
Radagast's head allmost did when he cleverly lost his balance, tried to
aim for the bed to cushion his fall, but overshot and hit his head on 
the wall ... But atleast a metal picture frame was there, which caused
his head to begin gushing blood...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: New Subject    
Date & Time: 08/06/90 06:49:42
Message Number  7297

> it's kinda like being afraid of telephones, or carpets, or babble..bab
 
Or H-Bombs, or Uranium 238, or Radon, or Cancer, or Death, or Life, or
being 30.....
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Reality        
Date & Time: 08/06/90 08:41:59
Message Number  7298

I explained what he was doing to you after the fact. The kid was in a
future shock situation. Should he have been is my question.
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: gee...         
Date & Time: 08/06/90 08:52:04
Message Number  7299

I am going to defend The Specialist and AJ both.
I do not believe that AJ would do a thing. From his writings I would sa
y that he is pretty sensible. Aj has his problems but so do all of
us. You know I could overlook AJ for the ideas he expresses outside
The Specialist is a good gent also. In fact I would like to
communicate with him regularly. He has something to say
===========

From: MIKE GREENAWALD     
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Problem...     
Date & Time: 08/06/90 09:01:30
Message Number  7300

Mike Greenawald is not GOD by any means. I just discovered why
the statement I make I am who I am. makes people upset.
I am not he but he helps me. He has carried me on his shoulders
over a number of pits in the road.
I do not think that I am ill. My sinus problem is back however.
Ken you are the only dude I know who has a two part handle.
===========

