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2 ************************* REMOVED: 16 OCT 83 ************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
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23 ========================================
24      What kind of liberals are you referring to when you say 'us liberals', CYM?  Are you talking about the Traditional 
25 Liberals, who believed in the power of the individual and rejected big government and all the interference that went 
26 along with it.  Or are you talking about the New Liberals, who love big government and all of its taxes and 
27 interference.  Or perhaps you speak of the bleeding-heart liberals, who blame themselves and practically everyone else 
28 for the 'downtrodden minorities'.  There are big differences between the types of liberals I mentioned.  Unfortunately 
29 in our attempts to categorize people, we forget that a single name, 'liberal', means wildly different things to 
30 different people. 
31      The same comment goes for you, Hrothgar.  If you wanted Reagan to 'balance the budget, get government off the backsfsalbs
32 liberalism that existed before this century, before the liberals found out that they, too, could manipulate the 
33 population as well as any conservative.
34      That's to your credit, Hrothgar.  But perhaps you consider yourself the 'laughingstock of my liberal friends' 
35 because you don't check your facts:  Reagan was inaugurated January 1981, and as such has been our president 2 years and0mnh.(
36 traffic controllers.  They are attributed by most people to the recent influx of Mariel Cubans inadvertently invited by 
37 Reagan to come to America.  Of course, you can certainly blame Reagan for that, if you wish.  However, typical liberals 
38 are often criticizing conservatives for 'closing freedom's door' by restricting immigration.  In that one isolated 
39 incident, Reagan was more 'liberal' than many liberals I've heard.
40      Also, it is distoring the issue to blame airline accidents on Reagan and his actions.  Airline accidents occur 
41 relatively infrequently, maybe twice a year or a little more.  Statistically, the variance in accidents could double the 
42 number of accidents in a year without being significant. (Comparison: The number of auto fatalities is large, around 
43 50,000 per year, and is relatively constant per year.)
44      And should we blame Reagan for the recession(depression, whatever) that has occurred in the last 3 years?  That's a 
45 good question.  But first, answer this.  At what point does a president (any president) become responsible for the 
46 economy, etc, after he's taken office?  Surely not on his second day in office? Or his third?  But when?  I won't answer 
47 this question, since a person's answer usually depends on whether he likes the current administration.  But I sometimes 
48 wonder how much real power an administration has to make things happen/not happen.  We all know that the Federal Reservesapwru
49 know that the Fed has acted unusually independantly of most Presidents.  Indeed, much of a President's power is his 
50 ability to push for tax/spending bills (often over the objections of Congress)  But this is a slow procedure.
51      I don't know.  But I didn't vote for Reagan.  Or Carter. Or Anderson.  I voted for someone who WOULD, if elected, 
52 have 'balanced the budget, get the government off the backs of small business'.  He might not have had government 'fund 
53 more scientific research', because that isn't the proper function of government.
54 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon::::::::::::::::::
55 P.S.  Upload still doesn't work perfektlee.
56 To ALL   hi
57 
58 
59 
60 To ALL, Everyone, and especialy YOU, I  have a VIC-20 for sale with a 
61 16k ram module with dp/sw and 6 game cartridges. All in new condition 
62 with Programers Reference Guide.
63 Call 255-0583 after4:00pm, ask for Darrin
64 
65 --------------------------------HI
66 THIS IS A FIRST TIME USER HERE AT THIS BOARD AND WANT TO SAY IT IS GREAT.
67 I'VE  READ THE LETTERS BUT NEVER SAID ANYTHING.SO THE FIRST THING I WOULD 
68 LIKE TO TALK ABOUT IS THE RAJNEESHIES!!
69                 I MY SELF AM NOT ANY SORT OF RELIGON AND NEVER WILL BE(MOST
70 LIKELY NEVER WILL BE).
71    ANY WAY MY THOUGHT ON IT IS SCREW THEN AND GET THEM THE HELL OUT OF HERE!
72 IT SEEMS THE "GOVERNMENT" IS TO AFRAID OF THEM FOR SOME REASON.
73 THEY HAVE NO USE TO OREGON AND ARE ONLY STARTING SOMETHING THAT WILL NOT END
74 FOR A LONG TIME AND NOT WITH OUT A HELL OF A FIGHT!
75 THE THING THAT SCARES ME IS I DON'T KNOW WHO WILL WIN.
76             SPEAKING FOR MYSELF AND A HELL OF A LOT OF MY FRIENDS "OVER MY 
77 DEAD BODY"
78 
79 
80 ----------------------MOSES--------------
81 END
82 Hey `ll you doggie `ooerr!
83 hat do y/u think you are doing???????  Why don't you
84 go and eat some doggie dung!!
86 ^^^^^COSMO^^^ Ignoring the previousmessage...
87 Alright!  That's what we need more of- sprited discussion.  As I, and 
88 some others around here, are new to this communication medium
89 , and out of a desire to further explore its potential as a communication
90 tool, I'd like to initiate lengthly discussion with a couple of thoughts
91 offered up by some other individuals...
92 "Whoever in discussion sights authority as supportive evidence uses not 
94 
97 intelligence but memory.
98 
99 
100 "Opinions are just that."
101 
106 
107 I fell opinions should be brought ot into the open for discussion and 
108 evaluation lest they assume the form of fact.  I get the distinct
109 impression that it is not possible or people to be truly authoritative
110 because most issues lie outside ther personal experience.
111 Let's seek out the opinions of othes, compare them to our own, and
112 come to some rational consensus regarding our opinions factual base.
113 For example:  I don't like the [ajneeshies, nor do I like organized
114 religon.  I also don't like being told what to believe(in), nor I'm sre
115 do they.  If it weren't for the personal rigths we as a society advocate
116 I'd force them out of Oregon to somplace like Midway Island.  But, would
117 i be any better then they?  Certainly no worse?  
118 I used to consider myself a liberal but I find liberalism more and more
119 to be a out of step with the times.
120 Like a pendulum, I think its time fr liberalism to stand down temorarily
121 while rational and mre conservative methods are ipracticed for the health
122 of our country.  I think it is time for people to concern themselvs
123 with the nations natural resource clled youth, and stimulating educaton
124 for said resource.  Support your kids curiosity, their education, ther
125 schools.  Provide them exemplary role models, facilitate their learning,
126 encourage their inquisitivness, make them more accountable for their actions
127 Support the drive for increased mat and science requirments.  Instill in thm
128 a strong sense of responsibilty.  DemonstrAte to them the type of person 
129 you would like them to be.  Above al, don't be imposing.  Good night.
130 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
131 
132 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
133 
134 To whomever:
135 Regarding the UHF Bandit I have made the following observations:
136 1)  He is the only one reporting activiy on channel 61.
137 2)  He declines to indicate the transmission times.
138 3)  He declines to indicate his general location.
139 4)  He declines to indicate the type of programming.
140 5)  Either he is not a regular on BWMS or he declines to identify himself.
141 In consideration of the above, I have come to the conclusion that he is at-
142 tempting to administer to us a GQ (Gullibility Quotient) test.
143 
144 Mikey:  Will your modem recieve slower than 300 baud?  If so, maybe that
145 would reduce the errors.
146 
147 Cosmo:  I don't mean to be picky, but it might be easier to keep track of
148 who's writing what if you signed at the bottom instead of the top.
149 Anyway, welcome; you have helped to balance the Heathen:Religious Fanatic
150 ratio.  (You too, Moses.)
151 
152 Anon:  Perhaps a pres is not to blame (or credit) for the economy on the 
153 day following his inauguration, but he is most likely responsible for any
154 significant changes in the TREND of the economy.  (I should have said
155 largely responsible, not completely.)  In this light, Reagon's image is not
156 much improved.
157 
158                                                     Dirty Ol' Man
159 
160 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
161 
162   
163 PS to Mikey:  Never mind previous question.  I tried it at 110 baud;
164 it didn't work.
165  
166                       Dirty
167 
168 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
169 
170 ########################################
171 TO CLARIFY THE LIBERAL VS CONSERVATIVE EXPLANATION ONE SHOULD USE THE ST
172 STANDARD DEFINITIONS: LIBERAL=PRO LABOR,WORKING CLASS & DISADVANTAGED; CO
173 CONSERVATIVE=BUSINESS, PROFIT, GET THE GOVERNMENT OFF MY BACK, TO HELL WITH
174 EVERYONE THAT DOESN'T MAKE HIS OWN WAY WETHER HE/SHE CAN OR NOT.
175 REAGAN AND HIS WHOLE GANG DEFINATELY FALL INTO THE LATTTER CATAGORY.
176 AIR SAFETY, AUTO SAFETY, CONSUMER SAFETY AS A WHOLE HAVE DEFINATELY SUFFERED
177 SINCE DAY ONE OF REAGONS PRESIDENCY. NO ONE ELSE IS TO BLAME! ALL THE GO 
178 GORSICHES,WATTS,HAIGS ETC ARE JUST RUBBER STAMPING WHAT REAGAN STANDS FOR.
179 I AM THE FIRST TO ADMIT THAT CSACARTER WAS NO JEWEL BUT LOOKING BACK THE T
180 TRACK RECORDS FOR THE LIBERALS IS A HELL OF A LOT BETTER THAN FOR THE CO
181 CONSERVATIVES.
182 AS TO THE DEFENSE OF OUR LAND, WITH PEOPLE LIKE THE PRESENT ADMIBIDTINISTRAT
183 WE WON'T HAVE ANYTHING LEFT TO DEFEND.
184 DEPLEAT ALL OUR RESOURCES, TURN ALL OUR TECHNOLOGY OVERER TO THE JAPANESE,
185 WHAT DO WE HAVE LEFT TO DEFEND? AS FOR THE JAPANESE, WE COULD TAKE SOME L
186 LESSONS FROM THEM, THEY DON'T RAVAGE THEIR LAND! THEY USE EVERY INCH OF IT 
187 TO IT'T BEST POTENTIAL BUT THIS DOES NOT MEAN STRIP MINING ETC. FOR EVERY
188 ITEM THEY TAKE FROM THE ENVIRONMENT THEY REPLACE IT TO KEEP THE BALANCE, M
189 MUCH AS OUR OWN NATIVE AMERICANS DID BEFORE WE STOLE THIS LAND FROM THEM.
190 THE JAPANESE DO WHAT THEY DO BEST, MAKE THE MOST OUT OF THE LEAST FOR THE 
191 MANY, WE USED TO DO THIS BUT NOW WE ARE MAKING THE MOST FOR THE FEW PRI
192 PRIVELEDGED PEOPLE THAT ARE STRIPPING THIS LAND FOR THEIR OWN POCKETBOOKS.
193 ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES IS THE STEEL INDUSSTRY WHERE THE MANAGEMENT JUST 
194 KEPT PRODUCING AND INVESTING THEIR PROFITS ALL ALL OVER THE PLACE BUT NOT 
195 BACK INTO THE STEEL BUSINESS, THEN THEY COMPLAIN THAT THEY CAN'T MAKE ANY 
196 MONEY COMPETING WITH THE FOREIGN SOURCES.
197 
198 ################C.Y.M.#############################10/13 6:46AM#############
199 P.S
200 MIKEY: ANY CHANCE OF YOUR SYSTEM SUPPORTIN THE DELETE KEY IN MY S OR OTHER 
201 SYSTEMMS?
202 
203 ########################################################C>Y>M>##############
204                                         
205 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
206      ANON, I THINK THAT THE MARIEL BOAT-LIFT WAS A CARTER MISTAKE, NOT A REAGAN ONE.  IT WAS A SPEECH BY CARTER TO THE
207 LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS IN TEXAS WHEREIN HE MENTIONED THAT THE U.S. BORDERS WERE STILL OPEN TO ANY AND ALL THAT WANTED 
208 TO COME HERE THAT GAVE CASTRO THE CHANCE TO EMPTY HIS JAILS OF SOME OF HIS WORST PROBLEM OFFENDERS.  IT WAS A CYNICAL
209 (AND SUCCESSFUL) ATTEMPT TO MAKE US LOOK BAD, AND TO SHOW THAT WE REALLY DO NOT TAKE ANY AND ALL WHO WANT TO COME HERE.
210      ON THE LIBERAL/CONSERVATIVE DEBATE, THE CONCEPT OF CONSERVATIVE HAS CHANGED SOMEWHAT OVER THE YEARS.  ALONG WITH
211 THE DEFINITIONS GIVEN ABOVE, THEY WERE  NOTED FOR BEING SLOW TO CHANGE ANYTHING, EXAMINING AN ISSUE TO DEATH BEFORE
213 GOING ALONG (IF THEY DID).  THE REAGAN  TYPE CONSERVATIVE IS CONSERVATIVE IN ALL WAYS EXCEPT THIS ONE.  REAGAN SEEMS TO
214 THINK VERY LITTLE, LEAVING THAT TO  HIS CABINET IF IT INTERFERES WITH WHAT HE IS DOING IN HIS PERSONAL LIFE.  AND HE
215 DEMONSTRATES WHY  I AM  NOT FOND OF THE ANECDOTE IN ARGUMENT: WITH HIS NATIONAL EXPOSURE, HE CAN USE AN ANECDOTE (OF
216 DUBIOUS ORIGIN AND TRUTH) TO PROVE SOME OUTLANDISH POINT (SUCH AS TREES THAT ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE POLLUTION THAN
217 COAL-FIRED POWER PLANTS).
218      I HAVE FOLLOWED MR. REAGANS CAREER FOR A LONG TIME, AND I SOMETIMES WONDER IF HE REMEMBERS ANYTHING HE HAS DONE.  
219 IT WAS UNDER HIS GOVERNORSHIP THAT  THE TAXES IN CALIFORNIA INCREASED  AT SUCH A DRAMATIC RATE AND EVENTUALLY BROUGHT 
220 ABOUT PROPOSITION 13.  IT WAS HIS LITTLE ADMINISTRATION THAT DESTROYED THE TAX  BASE FOR THE SCHOOLS, EVENTUALLY
221 TURNING A STATE THAT WAS #1 IN LEARNING IN BOTH PRIMARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION INTO ONE THAT WASN'T EVEN IN THE TOP
222 20.  AND DURING HIS TENURE THERE,  HIS  STANDS ON FOREIGN POLICY WERE A JOKE, AS HE ADVOCATED INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES
223 ON 12 OCCASIONS.  I ASSUME THAT THIS WAS JUST RHETORIC, BECAUSE I DON'T THINK HE IS THAT STUPID, BUT IT IS THE KIND OF
224 THING THAT CAN MAKE ONE NERVOUS.
225      ONE CAN GO ON FOREVER ON THIS, WITH COMMENTS ABOUT HIS APPOINTING PEOPLE TO HEAD DEPARTMENTS WHO ARE HOSTILE TO 
226 THE VERY PURPOSE OF THE DEPARTMENT, HIS OFFENDING OUR ALLIES WHENEVER POSSIBLE, APPOINTING COMMISIONS TO STUDY PROBLEMS
227 AND THEN ONLY ACCEPTING THEIR REPORT IF IT AGREES WITH HIS OWN PRECONCEPTIONS,  ETC., ETC., BUT WHEN IT IS ALL SAID,
228 WE STILL HAVE HIM FOR OVER A YEAR.  URP, PASS ME THE ALKA-SELZER......                                                 
229 [][][][][][][][][][][]PAM-[][][][][][][]
230 ######################################## 
231 HOPEFULLY THERE WON'T BE ANOTHE 4 YRS OF REAGAN AND HIS ILK, IF SO THEN WE'LL ALL NEED MORE THAN ALKA-SELTZER.: LOOKING BACK ON
232 THE LAST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS, IT SEEMS STRANGE THAT EACH HAS PERCIPITATED A RECESSION AND/OR DEPRESSION GOING BACK TO HOOVER.
233 WE HAD IT WITH IKE, NIXON, FORD (ALTHOUGH HIS WAS INHERITED FROM THE CROOK BEFORE HIM, AND NOW REAGAN. WHEN WILL THE AMERICAN 
234 PEOPLE GET SOME SMARTS? GUESS IT'S A LITTLE LIKE BANGING ONES HEAD AGAINST A BRICK WALL,
235 SURE FEELS GOOD WHEN YOU STOP. GUESS WE NEED A FEW LUMPS IN ORDER TO APPRECIATE WHAT WE HAVE.
236 
237 #################C.Y.M.################################10/12 2:51PM#############
238 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
239 Re: The UHF Bandit
240 I believe he's one of the systops for the Corkboard BBS.  As for Channel 61,
241 I can receive it faintly (from NE Portland).  It's a religious/Moral Majority
242 type station.  Not really worth the effort unless you're into that sort of
243 thing.
244                       Warner
245 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
246 
247 RE: LIBERAL VS. CONSERVATIVE
248 I AM SOMEWHAT CONSERVATIVE IN MY POLICIES FINACIALLY, AND YET BY PARTY I AM A LEBERTARIAN.  GET THE GOVERNMENT
249 OFF OF OUR BACK IS THE MAJOR TENET OF LIBERTARIANISM.  IF WE COULD, IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE A LIBERTARIAN
250 WORLD GOVERNMENT, IE. NO NEED FOR WARS, JUST PERSONAL FREEDOM.  SINCE THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE, I FEEL THAT A STRONG
251 MILITARY IS MANDATORY, IN ORDER TO PRESERVE FREEDOM IN WHAT SMALL WAY WE HAVE IT.
252 
253 I HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS ABOUT THE STATEMENT THAT PEOPLE SHOULD 'MAKE IT THEMSELVES, WHETHER THEY CAN OR NOT'
254 FURTHER UP THE BOARD.  LOOK AT THE EXAMPLES AROUND US,  MARTIN LUTHER KING, HELEN KELLER, STEVIE WONDER ...
255 THESE ARE ALL PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE THOUGHT TO BE AMONG THOSE WHO 'CANNOT MAKE IT', YET EACH IS A STORY OF
256 PERSONAL TRIUMPH OVER ODDS.  THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IN THE FIELD OF PSYCHOLOGISTS IS THAT AN AVERAGE HUMAN
257 USES LESS THAN 10 % OF HER/HIS BRAIN CAPACITY.  THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR FAILURE, THE ONLY REAL REASON FOR
258 FAILURE IS GIVEN (AND YOU FIND TRUTH IN THE STRANGEST PLACES) IN THE MOVIE ROCKY III, WHEN ROCKY TELLS
259 PAULY THAT HE IS A NO GOOD BUM, AND THINKS THE WORLD OWES HIM A LIVING.  THAT IS NOT AN EXCUSE,  NOT ONE
260 PERSON IS BEYOND THE CAPABILITY TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS/HER ACTIONS.  I SAY NO TO WELFARE, BUT YES
261 TO WORKFARE AND RETRAINING PROGRAMS, TO BE PAID BACK.  THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE BASIS OF FREEDOM,
262 PERSONAL FREEDOM.  THAT FREEDOM GIVES US THE POWER TO SUCCEED OR TO FAIL, AND THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT HAVE THE
263 RIGHT TO TAKE EITHER OF THOSE FREEDOMS AWAY, AND IT CANNOT TAKE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER.
264 
265 (AN INTERESTING POINT, AND SHAMES THE MEMORY OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, IS THAT FREEDOM WAS PROCLAIMED FOR
266 WHITE MALES, ABOVE AGE 21, WHO OWNED REAL PROPERTY.  SAD BUT TRUE.  SOME THINGS MUST CHANGE, BUT NOT THE
267 ORIGINAL GIFT.)
268 
269 I DID NOT HAVE THE OPORTUNITY TO FIGHT FOR MY COUNTRY IN WAR, BUT I MOST CERTAINLY WILL FIGHT IN PEACE AND FROM WITHIN.
270 
271 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   DJJ   [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][
272 
273 FIRST POINT:  SUPPORTING THE "POOR" OR ANY OTHER GROUP IS FINE.....
274 AS LONG AS THE SUPPORT LEVEL REQUIRED DOESN'T PENALIZE THE PEOPLE
275 DEFINED AS THE SUPPORTERS.
276 
277 SECOND POINT:  SOCIAL SERVICES TAKE (BY THE GOVERNMENT'S OWN ACCOUNTING)
278 50% OF THE TAXES COLLECTED.  THAT'S THE 50% I WANT TO STOP PAYING.
279 
280 THIRD POINT:  DID YOU EVER NOTICE THAT MOST OF THE ABORTION LAWS ARE
281 PROPOSED, BROUGHT TO A VOTE, AND PASSED BY MEN.   WHAT A JOKE!
282 
283 FOURTH POINT:  CRIME IN THE STREETS WOULD BE VERY MUCH LESS IF WE ALL
284 USED DEADLY FORCE TO DEFEND.
285 
286 
287 **************BLIND SCREAMING RED NECK********************************
288 Cmon, CYM, you are ready to blame republicans for any recession at all. What we now tend to forget is the time during
289 the 70's with inflation of >10%.  What caused this?  Well, partly the oil embargo, but inflation soared during the 
290 early seventies too, far greater than the 1-2% usual during the sixties.  This, as nearly all economists will
291 admit, was due to the costs of the Vietnam war, because the government was unwilling to raise taxes sufficiently to pay
292 for it. (Regardless of what you think of the war, it was expensive).  And Nixon, while he didn't stop the war as fast
293 as most of us liked, (as far as I know) we had already reached a peak number of soldiers in Vietnam by the end of
294 the Johnson administration!  So much of the double-digit inflation of the seventies, and its corresponding recession, was
295 actually due to the Democrats! 
296      And what with the oil embargo/shock causing a tremendous upheaval in the cost of living/doing business, it is 
297 unfair to say that the guy who happened to be president at that time should be saddled with the full blame.
298     We were headed into the current recession when Carter left office.  While we may speculate on the possibility that
299 it wouldn't have lasted as long as it did had Reagan done something differently, or might have been less severe, I still
300 people wondering if we would EVER return to the days of 5% inflation.
301     Anyway, it seems certain that whatever mistakes Reagan makes today will be blamed on whichever president is elected
302 for the 1985-1989 term (perhaps Reagan himself.)   The economy is like a ocean liner, steered by three oars: one held
303 by the president, one held by the Congress, and one held by the Federal Reserve.  Things happen very slowly, and when they do 
304 (especially if they're bad) the president is  the main one getting the blame!
305     Recovery from this recession could have been botched if the Fed had raised the money supply too fast:  Three years down the
306 road, tremendous inflation, etc.  But for the short-term, everything would have looked rosy.  If you are willing to trade 
307 long-term security for short-term political gains, that's what you would get.
308 =================================================== Anon ====================
309 ########################################
310 IT'S A LOT EASIER TO EAT WHEN ONE HAS A JOB AND MONEY COMING IN EVEN WITH INFLATION.
311 WHO CAN LIVE ON CHEESE HANDOUTS NO MATTER HOW LOW THE COST OF LIVING INDEX IS.
312 YES, "ANON" I CAN AND DO BLAME THE RECESSION ON REAGAN. HE WAS GIVEN MORE THAN HIS SHARE OF SUPPORT BY THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE
313 WHEN HE TOOK OFFICE. THEY WENT ALONG WITH HIS POLICIES HOPING THEY WOULD WORK.
314 OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE'NT! THERE IS STILL ABOUT 11% UNEMPLOYMENT IN SPITE OF THE PHONY GOVERNMENT FIGURES THAT DON'T TAKE IN ALL 
315 THOSE THAT HAVE GIVEN UP.
316 ON THE OTHER SUBJECT, THERE ARE PROBABLY 200,000 PERSONS OUT THERE FOR EVERY EXCEPTIONAL HELLEN KELLER, MARTIN LUTHER KING, ETC
317 THAT IS A VERY BAD EXAMPLE OF BEING ABLE TO DO FOR ONESELF. AS FOR THE MOVIE ROCKIE, YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING QUOTING THAT JERK
318 
319 ################C.Y.M.#################################10/12 6:27PM#############
320 CYM: I hate to tell you this but trees ARE a major contributor to
321 air pollution (if you figure total tonnage, NOT concentration). Also, YOU have to be kidding when you say that the House & Sena
322 supported Reagan's policies. They did so ONLY when it didn't conflict
323 with their own policies. Finally, I once saw a chart comparing
324 (by inflation rate, I believe) all the adminstrations this century.
325 It had them broken down into 4 categories, Republican president-
326 Republican Congress, Republican president-Democratic Congress,
327 Democratic president-Democratic Congress, & Democratic president-
328 Republican Congress. The rate seemed to be more dependant on Congress
329 than the president, but (as I recall) things were "better" when
330 congress & the president were of different parties & "best" when
331 we had a Republican president & a Democratic congress. Maybe we
332 should get rid of the Republicans in Congress? 
333 
334 Cosmo: I wish you hadn't mentioned that bit with the sounding rocket.
335 That is NOT the kind of info that needs to be spread around. 
336 You also underestimate the effects. The satellite will be moving at
337 AT LEAST 5 miles per second relative to those nails. They won't
338 merely "remove all external protuberances", ONE NAIL would destroy
339 a medium size satellite! (and it would probably be hit by several)
340 One reason we don't need this to be spread around is because the
341 John Birch Society (or some other group of "right wing" radicals)
342 could "shoot down" the Soviet space station for about $10,000. Or
343 someone who disliked us (or at least the space program) could
344 shoot down a shuttle just as cheaply. 
345 Do you REALLY want to spread that kind of info around?
346 _________________________Leonard________________________________
347    IT LOOKS LIKE TO ME WHAT EVER PARTY WE HAVE IN OFFICE THERE WELL BE A PRETTY GOOD AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT WON'T LIKE IT.
348 SOME ONE ANSWER ME THIS WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME 80 OR MORE LIKE THE PARTY IN OFFICE? (AND IF THEY CAN'T WHY NOT)
349                             MOSES
350           -----------------PS----------------
351 ANY HELP FOR A FELLOW ZORKER?
352 
353 ########################################
354 LEONARD: YOU ARE READING THE WRONG ITEMS ATTRIBUTING THEM TO ME. I MADE NO 
355 MENTIUION OF THE TREE VS COAL. THAT WAS SOMEONE ELSE.
356 YOU COMPLETELY MISS THE POINT ABOUT INFLATION REGARDLESS OF WHO'S IN OFFICE, IT
357 IS BETTER TO HAVE INFLATION WITH A JOB TO BUY INFLATED ITEMS WITH THAN NO INFLAT
358 ION AND NO WAY OF BUYING ANYTHING. SURE INFLATION HURTS, BUT STARVATION IS FINAL
359 ###############C.Y.M.################################10/12 10:34 PM#############
360 
361 
362 
364 
365 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
366 
367 Reading tonight's conversations was enjoyable./
368 As for politics, during its long an necessary history it has always been an unexact science.
369 There are just too many variables to attempt to control to everyone's satisfaction.
370 It is, i feel, too much to expect o any person, not so different fromyou or me, to be the 'magician'
371 we expect our presidents to be.
372 
373 ]hat they adequately manage the beast called public beuracracy is as much as we can reasonably expect.  I think Reagan lives up
374 to these citeria, as i felt Carter attempted to.  Perhaps it can be summed up in the quote-
375 "Democracy operates on the assumtion that more than half of th people are right more tan half the time."
376 
377 leanord:  Your assessment of the impact effects of nails and spacecrft at high relative speeds is quite accurrate.  Your
378 concerns regarding public informatin is honorable but misguided.  Ignorane and lack of understanding and comprehension are
379 far more serious dangers.
380 The conceptual formulation of space confrontation is already a well-establish
381 practice.  You must understand its implications if you are to accurately assess its 
382 potentials.  As the enviornment of space becomes more ad more a part of our natural habitat, we will be confronted with many
383 new contributions to both stability and instabilty.  Consider the implication of the electromagnetic mass-launcher.
384 As part ao a forseeable future's lunar colony, a mass launchers intended function is to accelerate large quantities of raw
385 lunar crustal material to lunar escape velocity on a trajectory 
386 which would delivery it to a space-based ore refining facility.  Opporating under the well established laws of Newtonian 
387 physics, these 'projectiles can be aimed with unerroriing accuraccies.
388 (unerroring?!)   Consider the potenial of such a mass launcher...to deliver multi-ton projectiles , at speeds in excess of
389 7 miles per second, along random trajectories, to any point of the surface of the earth and with energies in excess of the 
390 soviet 100-megaton'er.  To argue that we should not become informed with regards to its 'evil' pottential, is to remove the 
391 potential for corresponding checks and balances necessary to its morally correct operation... and the should, could, and i 
392 feel, must be built... For peace.
393 
394 How else can we make informed, reasoned decisions about issues which effect our survival?
395 }ood night.
396 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ COSMO ^^^^^^^^^^
397 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
398      LEONARD, CYM IS RIGHT, IT WASN'T HE WHO MENTIONED THE TREES, IT WAS ME, AND I STAND BY WHAT I SAID.  AS FAR AS THE
399 COMPARISON OF  THE  TOTAL TONNAGE TO THE ABSOLUTE CONCENTRATION, YOU'RE RIGHT.  BUT THE CONCENTRATION IS WHAT IS
400 IMPORTANT IN THE ISSUE, AND COAL-FIRED  POWER PLANTS PRODUCE CONCENTRATIONS THAT ARE REDICULOUSLY HIGH.  AND WE MUST
401 DECIDE WHAT WE MEAN BY "POLLUTION".  IF YOU MEAN COMPOUNDS OF HYDROCARBONS, THEN YOU ARE RIGHT AGAIN.  BUT THE FORMS OF
402 HYDROCARBONS PRODUCED BY TREES  CAN BE  REUSED BY OTHER PLANTS, AND ARE GREAT FERTILIZERS WHEN PRECIPITATED BY RAIN.
403 THE SAME CAN'T BE SAID OF SULFER DIOXIDE, HIGH CONCENTRATIONS OF OZONE, BENZENE, OR CARBON MONOXIDE, NONE OF WHICH 
404 TREES PRODUCE IN GREAT QUANTITIES OR AT ALL.  LARRY SPEAKES, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE DEPARTMENT OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT MEANT
405 TO SAY, REFERRED TO THE COMMENT AS "JUST A SILLY MISTAKE, HE WAS MIS-INFORMED", AND HE DEFINATELY WAS.  THE ATMOSPHERE
406 CAN DEAL WITH LOCAL AND SMALL AMOUNTS OF THESE POLLUTIONS, BUT HAS A HARD TIME  WITH MASSIVE CONCENTRATIONS.
407      ON THE QUESTION OF WHETHER REAGAN  GOT WHAT HE WANTED, I THINK THAT IF YOU REVIEW THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD FOR THE
408 PERIOD COVERING THE 1st YEAR AND A HALF OF HIS TERM, YOU WILL FIND THAT HE DID  NOT LOSE THE FINAL VOTE ON ANY ISSUE HE
409 HAD SPONSORED.  AND ALL OF HIS POLITICAL APPOINTEES WERE CONFIRMED BY CONGRESS, EVEN THE INCOMPETANTS AND GOOF-BALLS.
410 THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE RECORD OF CONGRESSIONAL COMPLIANCE, ONE THAT HASN'T BEEN  SEEN IN A LONG TIME,  AND NEVER IN MY
411 MEMORY DURING AN ADMINISTRATION WITH  A CONGRESS CONTROLED BY HIS "OPPOSITION".  SO WHILE I MIGHT AGREE THAT IT IS TOO
412 SOON TO PASS JUDGEMENT ON HIS REIGN, I  DON'T AGREE THAT HE HASN'T GOTTEN  JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING HE WANTED.  FOR A LONG
413 TIME, PEOPLE BELIEVED THAT HE HAD A "MANDATE" TO INITIATE MASSIVE CHANGE, BUT THE ONLY MANDATE HE HAD WAS TO REPLACE
414 THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION.                                                                                             
415 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM-[][][][][][]
416 You seem to have a much higher opinion of politicians than I do. Their 
417 value is meager at best, their harm great.
418 The reason the economy did better when the pres and congress were at ods
419 is very simple:they didn't do anything then. In any case, comparing the
420 economy against US politics involves leaving out over half of the problem:
421 the rest of the world. Depressions hve usually hit the outside world harder
422 and earlier than the US (our strong, varied economy protects us), and then
423 the US is dragged in. We usually recover faster. I suspect the only thing
424 a politician can do to affect the economy is support or damage trust.
425 The oeconomy runs on private investment and no investor is willing to put
426 money on the line when the "government" (politicians) are playing games
427 that might shoot him down, like raise the taxes abruptly. Stability is
428 worth it's weight in gold, and then some, even if it is expensive we can
429 live with it. I doubt that even 4 years is enough to have real effect,
430 other than shock value.
431 /////////////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
432 
433 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
434 
435 BAD:  WHY MUST YOU ALWAYS LEAVE THE @#%?! MARGIN AT 7?????
436 
437 Leonard:  I doubt that anyone with an inclination to wipe out a sattelite
438 is incapable of figuring out for himself how to accomplish this ob-
439 jective.  Do you really think Cosmo has condemned the world to inevitable
440 oblivion?
441 
442 Cosmo:  I question whether such a device would be capable of propelling
443 to escape velocity a mass sufficient enough to survive entry into and de-
444 scent through the earth's atmosphere without vaporizing.  Is my skepti-
445 cism unwarranted or have I misunderstood your statement?
446 
447 CYM & PAM:  Touche'!
448 
449                                                        Dirty Ol' Man
450 
451 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
452 
453 ***********************************************
454 DOM~ : RIGHT, 300 BAUD ONLY...
455 C.Y.M : YES, THE DELETE KEY IS SUPPORTED. SEE THE RUBOUT DESCRIPTION IN
456 THE HELP LISTING. IT WAS MENT FOR USE WITH PRINTING TERMINALS RATHER THEN
457 VIDEO TERMINALS, BUT IT DOES WORK.
458 PAM! : WELCOME BACK! I THOUGHT MAYBE WE LOST YOU IT'S BEEN AWHILE SINCE
459 YOU'VE MADE ANY COMMENT.
460 BAD : I AGREE WITH YOUR VIEW ON ECONOMIC STABILITY.
461 ANON : YES, DOWN LOAD CAN BE DONE, BUT IT IS RATHER TOUCHY. BE SURE YOU HAVE
462 THE MARGIN SET TO A LENGTH LONGER THEN THE LINES YOU ARE SENDING. ALSO,
463 BWMS NEEDS ABOUT A SECOND AFTER EACH LINE YOU SEND TO PROCESS IT. BEFORE
464 IT WILL ACCEPT MORE DATA. (IF YOU SEND ANY IT WILL BE IGNORED.) THIS TIME
465 IS VARIABLE FROM 0 TO ONE SECOND, BUT IF YOU GIVE IT A SECOND ALL WILL BE
466 FINE. FINALLY, IF YOU HAVE A POOR GRADE PHONE LINE, YOU MAY HAVE TO SLOW
467 DOWN THE TRANSMISSION (USUALLY DONE BY WAITING FOR THE CHARACTER YOU SENT
468 TO BE RETURNED TO YOU.) SO THAT THE RETURNING CHARACTERS BEING SENT BY
469 BWMS DON'T COLIDE WITH THE ONES YOU ARE SENDING AND DISRUPTING THE WHOLE
470 MESS. NOTE: FOR HIGH SPEED TRANSMISSION YOU CAN JUST WAIT FOR THE CHARACTERS
471 YOU SEND TO BE RETURNED TO YOU AND BWMS WILL TAKE CARE OF THE TIMEING FOR
472 YOU. BUT REMEMBER THAT BWMS WILL SEND A CARRAGE RETURN, LINE FEED, CARRAGE
473 RETURN BACK TO YOU FOR EACH SINGLE CARRAGE RETURN YOU SEND.
474 ********* CISTOP MIKEY **** 9:00AM ********** 13 OCT 83 *******************
475 DOM: The nails don't have to reach escape velocity or even orbital
476 velocity. The idea is that you launch at the right time & fling this
477 mess up in front of your target. The timing is very important
478 (and probably capable of being handled by a good calculator)
479 as this stuff ISN'T going to be at "peak" altitude very long.
480 I know that the info is readily available, but most of those
481 nut cases may not be aware that this is even POSSIBLE, thus
482 they wouldn't look for it. I just wish that CYM had merely stated
483 that a low orbit satellite could be knocked down cheaply, rather
484 than going into details. (I know, just count this as a "pious wish"
485 on my part). This sort of thing bothers me a little, I know that
486 it wouldn't do any good to supress the information. I just don't
487 like having attention called to it. I thought the attempts to control
488 access to Chemistry texts in libraries (in the late 60s) were silly
489 and useless, but I don't think too much of the "Anarchist's Cookbook"
490 either. (speaking of which, DON'T use ANYTHING in ANY edition
491 without trying to get it checked by a trustworthy chemist! There
492 are omissions that can get you killed, or worse yet, half-kill you!!)
493 
494 Anyway, just use some simple physics to figure out what
495 it would take to get a single stage rocket to a peak altitude of
496 say 200 miles. If you need any of the simpler rocketry equations,
497 I can probably supply them for you.
498 ____________________________Leonard__________________________
499 ######################################## 
500 LEONARD: YOU DID IT AGAIN, YOU ARE ATTRIBUTING OTHERS WRITINGS TO ME. IT WAS
501 NOT I THAT WAS IN THE DEMOLITION DERBY DISCUS&ION BUT "COSMO": I WOULDN'T BE
502 SO BRAVE AS TO VENTURE AN OPPINION IN THAT FIELD. SCIENCE IS NOT MY CUP OF 
503 TEA. RELIGION AND POLITICS ARE MY BAGG. I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THIS KEYBOARD I
504 IN FRONT OF ME IS INTIMIDATING. I HAVE READ MICKEYS INSTRUCTIONS (HELP FUNCT
505 ) MANY TIMES AND STILL CAN'T FIGURE OUT FOHOW TO EDIT MY MESSAGES, THEREFOR 
506 THE ERRORS IN MY SPELLING, IT'S REALLY FRUSTRATION @PERSONIFIED TO GO BACK 
507 AND SEE ALL THE TYPOS, ESPECIALLY FOR ONE WITH A MASTERS IN ENGLISH LIT & 
508 POLITICAL SCIENCE.
509 
510 ###################C.Y.M##################################10/13 10:05AM#####
511 CYM: as an example of editing, in your line 506 you have a typo "@PERSONIFIED" that can be changed by the command
512 CH / @PERSONIFIED/ PERSONIFIED
513 when you are at that line (type LN 506 for that line first).  It will magically change!
514 Or, you could replace the whole line by typing REPLACE when at that line. BWMS will type the line back to you and 
515 ask if you want to change it. Just type "Y", and it will ask for the new line.
516 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   DJJ   [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
517 
518 AS I SAID, TRUTH IS FOUND IN THE STRANGEST PLACES, EVEN IN POLITICAL DIALOGUE.
519 I STILL FEEL THAT THE ONLY REASON FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE IT IS LAZINESS.  IF A PERSON IS MENTALLY 
520 INCAPACITATED THEN THAT, IN MY OPINION, QUALIFIES AS AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.  ONE SHOULD NOT,
521 HOWEVER, ASSUME A CERTAIN LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY FOR ANOTHER PERSON.  THERE HAVE BEEN MANY CASES OF
522 'INCAPACITATED' PEOPLE ASTONISHING DOCTORS AND RESEARCHERS WITH THEIR LEARNING ABILITY.  THE MAIN REASON
523 CITED FOR THESE 'MIRACLES' WAS THE EXPECTATIONS PLACED ON THE SUBJECTS BY THE RESEARCHERS.  A POSITIVE 
524 ATTITUDE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING.  
525 A TRITE SAYING PERHAPS, BUT QUITE TRUE 'WHETHER YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN OR YOU CANNOT, YOU ARE RIGHT.'
526 
527 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   DJJ   [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
528 Yes, and for every case of someone overcoming huge handicaps and achieving greatness, there are thousands that don't.
529 A positive attitude is very important, but it usually is better to be lucky than good.  I don't care what you do or
530 how good you are, if you don't get the breaks, or if you've made it onto someones "bad" list, success will never come.
531 And opportunity is also important.  If the opportunities aren't there, you will fail.  The attitude DJJ expresses is
532 more like something Walt Disney would say, and it is trite.  When you wish upon a star........
533 =====================================================================================================================
534 
535 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
536       
537 Hmmm...
538 ??  << IT IS BETTER TO HAVE INFLATION WITH A EMPLOYMENT THAN NO INFLATION 
539 THOUT >> ???
540 
541  self-serving view. 
542 ondem an entire nation to the ravages of inflation in order that 
543 
544  marginaly sucessfull segments of society may maintain their
545 extended life styles ......
546 
547 Sheer rubbish!
548 flation is the most democratic of all theives it steals from both 
549  & poor alike and hs no ethnic preference
550  SHOULD BE ACKNOWL
551 
552 
553 
554  GENTALMEN,I FEEL IT NESSISARY TO WARN YOU ALL THAT I HAVE BEEN READING THIS THING FOR
557 A GOOD AMT. OF TIME,THIS BEING THE FIRST MESSAGE I HAVE LEFT YOU PROBABLY HAVE NOT SEEN
558 MY NAME BEFORE. AS NORMAL I SHALL ENJOY WHATEVER IS THE CURRENT DISCUSION AND LEAVE
559 WHATEVER TIDBITS I CAN.
560 
561  HELLO TO THE MAN FROM THE LAND OF EAST.
562 DIGITALY,
563 NICHOLAS J.HAFLINGER
564 
565 CONSERVATIVES WANT THINGS AS THEY WERE
566 IT JUST CAN'T BE.  WE ARE ALREADY IN THE FUTURE.  LIBERALS LOOK TOWARD CHANGE 
567 AND BECAUSE THEY DO THEY ARE INHERENTLY THE
568 MORE SUCCESSFUL ANIMAL.  CONSERVATISM=NO GROWTH. LIBERALISM=CHANGE=THE FUTURE=GR
569 GROWTH.
570 LETS LEAVE THE RAJNISHERS ALONE IN THE DESERT TO MAKE IT BLOOM.
571 WHY DO WE OREGONIANS FEEL A NEED TO BE
572 SO PARANIOD, LEAVE THAT TO THE WIERD
573 ONES IN L.A.,D.C.,N.Y. ETC.
574 ^^^ RUSTY ^^^
575 
576 to:rusty
577 fm:The Mad Oregonian
578 sj:Rajneeshies
579 
580 As a lifetime Oregonian, I feel that those perverts should go
581 weirdos are.  They are violating the 1st ammendment and should
582 be sent to the moon!!
583 
584 Why don't you just go and live with them for a while and then
585 we shall see what you say about them.
586 -------------M.O.-------------
587 To:Sheila Silverman (alias Ma Sheila)
588 sj: Your ear
589 
590 Stick it in your ear baby!!
591 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
592 Somehow, i don't belive that the opn discussion of celestial destruction derby's  can be any more damaging to our nation/
593 
594 society than the open discussion of politcal discontent ( bordering on the just-plain/nasty) and sayingthings that Khomani
595 types might take personal affront to(remember the crusades?).
596 
597 It strikes me that amongst a random sampling of our nations population (this bulletin board) we seem to disagree about
598 most anything/everything.  Extrapolate to the meeting halls ofthe governing 'instruments'
599 and you can see why politics & religion/ what-have-you, muddles
600 along as they do.  Put in their poistion would we perform any better?
601 
602 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^COSMO ^^^^^^^^^^
603 
604 No, but wouldn't it be fun to be paid 
605 That much to argue?
606 [][][]][][][]][][][][][][]
607 LUCK IS A FIGMENT OF THOSE FOLKS WHO LIKE TO PLACE BLAME EVERYWHERE BUT ON THEMSELVES.  ASK ANY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS PERSON,
608 AND YOU WILL FIND THAT LUCK IS TERRIFIC, AS LONG AS YOU CONSIDER HARD WROK AND EFFORT THE EQUVALENT OF LUCK.
609 
610 Yes, I would love to get paid for arguing.
611 
612 LIBERALISM IS MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE SHARES EQUALLY IN THE SHORT END OF THE STICK.
613 CONSERVATISM IS THE BUSINESS OF MAKING LARGER STICKS.
614 
615 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   DJJ   [][][]][][][][][][][][][][][][]
616 
617 AND THEN KEEPING THE STICKS FOR THEMSELVES, OR HITTING EVERYONE OVER THE HEAD WITH THEM.

