

#: 7631 S6/Applications
    21-Oct-90  16:51:47
Sb: #7609-#cron help
Fm: Ted Miller 76545,457
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Hi Pete;

Thanks for the response. I just found the problem. I have a Ramdisk in my
bootfile that is a rewrite of Kevin Darlings 'Rammer' that is supposed to work
on any 6809 system. Apparently cron doesn't like this ramdisk for when I
rebooted with KD's rammer in the bootfile cron worked just as advertised. I
guess there isn't any point in wondering why. Anyways thanks for the utility.

Ted Miller

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7648 S6/Applications
    22-Oct-90  08:06:11
Sb: #7631-cron help
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X)

Great... sounds as if something on the 'enhanced' RAMDISK caused a proble with
file opening.

Pete

#: 7632 S6/Applications
    21-Oct-90  16:52:53
Sb: #7622-#cron help
Fm: Ted Miller 76545,457
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Hello Ed;

 Thanks for the response. The problem was not with cron per se but with the
ramdisk software I was using. This driver is a rewrite of Kevin Darlings
'Rammer' by Ken Drexler that is supposed to be non Coco specific. For some
reason cron doesn't recognize this ramdisk and also somehow prevents cron from
recognizing /dd/sys/crontab. Once I re-installed 'Rammer' cron worked just as
it should. Do you know of any other PD ramdisk software I could try. I find
'Rammer' a bit of a pain to use (no slight meant against KD) in that one first
has to format it to start up and then clear everything out and do innumerable
deiniz's to get the memory back

Ted Miller

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7643 S6/Applications
    22-Oct-90  01:27:22
Sb: #7632-cron help
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X)

Ted,

Sorry, I use the RAM set-up provided by Tandy in the Development Package - It
is expensive but does not have to formatted.  I have no knowledge of the
others.  Suggest you check with Kevin Darling and maybe go back to his
original.  His stuff is very good and if a bug occurs, he usually takes care of
it.

Good luck, Ed

#: 7633 S7/Telecommunications
    21-Oct-90  16:54:26
Sb: #7628-#uucp
Fm: Steve Sampson 75136,626
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

Maybe Mark should remove the uucp from the download area.  That way the people
who want source won't feel they're cheated, and those that want uucp function
will be screwed.  You could always design your own program and then you
wouldn't have to beat on Mark...

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7645 S7/Telecommunications
    22-Oct-90  03:36:30
Sb: #7633-#uucp
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Steve Sampson 75136,626 (X)


I too would like to publicly thank Mark and all others that worked on this
important port.

I have understood from previous messages regarding the UUCP, that at
least two people were working with Mark on UUCP for OSK.  Was I
mistaken???  Or was this specifically for the MM/1???

I understand and respect people selling their work for profit.  I do not
understand people releasing their work as freeware% with the statement that
it may later become a commercial release. It either is or it isn't.

Bob

%meaning copyrighted software freely distributed, but not for commercial
 use. 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7666 S7/Telecommunications
    22-Oct-90  18:14:26
Sb: #7645-#uucp
Fm: Steve Sampson 75136,626
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

I may be wrong in my assessment, but I believe that when you release the source
by uploading it, then others modify it and re-upload.  Mark appears to be of
the school where he will send you the source, but would like any changes routed
through him for incorporation.  That way all the uucp gadgets speak the same
lingo and offshoots don't throw the whole system out of wack.  If I read that
right, he's doing good.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7685 S7/Telecommunications
    22-Oct-90  23:56:41
Sb: #7666-#uucp
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Steve Sampson 75136,626 (X)

Steve,

I believe that *anyone* modifying someone elses code and distributes the
modified code against the authors stated wishes should be hanged by the
family jewels! (unfortunately the stinkin' judges won't let me - sigh)

The problem with Mark's UUCP is that unless someone else is doing an OSK
port, those of us who will *not* use TOP code is SOL.  So the question
remains...is someone doing this??? Why reinvent the wheel? Bob Larson
has stated that he will do the OSK port if he can get Marks permission
to do so as the copyright will not allow *any* changes to the code
otherwise. 

Bob

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7687 S7/Telecommunications
    23-Oct-90  07:08:40
Sb: #7685-#uucp
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

Bob,

Mark wrote the 6809 port with migration to OSK in mind. I know for a fact that
he has it running on  MM/1 as we speak. There's even some talk of bundling it
with the MM/1 when they start shipping.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7713 S7/Telecommunications
    24-Oct-90  01:11:33
Sb: #7687-#uucp
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Thanks Steve and Zack.  We will contact Mark.  An excellent idea to
bundle UUCP with the MM/1!

BTW, I don't have Marks net address, (should have noted it! <mumble
mumble>) Could you or anyone post it for me?

ABTW, does anyone have any notion how many people are using OS-9 as an
exclusive OS rather than a development system for embedded applications?

Thanks much. 

Bob

P.S. I jumped in here in hopes to clear the air before someone got hurt
feelings.  The *real* question has been answered.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7716 S7/Telecommunications
    24-Oct-90  06:49:00
Sb: #7713-#uucp
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

Bob,

I'll tend to use Mark's INTERNET address from CIS:

Griffith@STETSON.bitnet.edu

If you'd like to try the UUCP path:

 ... !uflorida!ki4pv!macs!stetson!rewop!sysop

or, there's the BITNET path:

GRIFFITH@STETSON

Hope this helps

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7742 S7/Telecommunications
    25-Oct-90  01:36:20
Sb: #7716-uucp
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Thanks Steve!

Bob

#: 7693 S7/Telecommunications
    23-Oct-90  14:51:20
Sb: #7685-uucp
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

Mark has _already_ done the OSK port of UUCP. It is to be distributed free of
charge with IMS MM/1s.

Zack

#: 7734 S7/Telecommunications
    24-Oct-90  20:42:58
Sb: #7685-#uucp
Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

 Mark has alerady done the OSK port of UUCP I am Crrently beta testing it and
hav not had manny problems with it. Mark has some things to fix in it and will
be uploading it one of these days.

 It is currently running on the MM1 and I am testing it on a GIMIX 03 and
looking for errant pointers with the spu so that it will not crash anyones
computer.


          Kevin PEase
          70516,1633




There are 2 Replies.

#: 7737 S7/Telecommunications
    24-Oct-90  22:28:48
Sb: #7734-#uucp
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 (X)

Kevin, just curious, what was the result of your drystone program on the Gimix
30 or 03 as you mistyped it. And I thought I had the only unique machine with
my 680030! <heh heh>

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7744 S7/Telecommunications
    25-Oct-90  04:43:58
Sb: #7737-uucp
Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633
To: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 (X)

The gimix 030 runs 6000-6125 drystone/second. It is quite fast. As a side note
I have a 68030 controller that runs 7500 drystons/sec at 20 mhz with 2 cycle
memory. The fastest number that I have seen on a 20 mhz 030 and OS9. also I f
someone mentions that there 030 has no wait states ask how many cycles the
memory access uses as if it is 3 then there is actually 1 wait state. The Gimix
030 actually runs 2 wait states as it has 4 cycle access. If your Kbus machine
also runs 4 cycle access which it should to support the 68k bus then it is also
2 waitstate. also the benchmarks were run with the cache enabled in all cases
on the 030.

        Kevin Pease
        70516,1633



#: 7743 S7/Telecommunications
    25-Oct-90  01:36:21
Sb: #7734-#uucp
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 (X)

Thanks Kevin,

The light now shines brightly on UUCP for OSK!  Hopefully Bob Larson will
jump in and help with the beta! (that's a HINT, Bob :-) )

Bob

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7745 S7/Telecommunications
    25-Oct-90  04:46:19
Sb: #7743-uucp
Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

 Since Mark Grifith is temporarily off the forum the only way to contact him is
througt bitnet. I dont have marks bitnet address as I just let my computer call
his as it is verry in-expensive. if bob wants to email me a message I will
forward it to Mark.

        Kevin Pease
        70516,1633



#: 7634 S1/General Interest
    21-Oct-90  17:40:14
Sb: #DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

I'm interested in writing an article for Dr. Dobbs Journal on OS-9. Does anyone
here have any ideas about what would make an interesting article?  Since this
is DDJ, it will have to be a programming article and since I'll probably only
have access to a CoCo3 version of OS-9, it will probably be written for the
6809 version of OS-9.  Because most people seem to be moving away from this
platform, I'd like the code to be easily ported to the 68K version.  Any ideas?

There are 5 Replies.

#: 7635 S1/General Interest
    21-Oct-90  18:33:25
Sb: #7634-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Hmmm.  I don't have any ideas offhand, but I can think of a couple of things.

Don't write about installing device drivers.  A while back there was some
mention here about how someone submitted an article about OS-9 device drivers
to DDJ and it was rejected with the comment that it was too easy.  (Gee, I'd
have thought that newsworthy in itself.)

A while back on the BITNET mailing list a fellow posted a list of suggestions
for OS-9 articles to write for RAINBOW, a Color Computer-specific magazine (so
far, at least :-).  I will try to track it down and get his permission to pass
it along to you--it might have some good ideas.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7638 S1/General Interest
    21-Oct-90  20:48:34
Sb: #7635-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Thanks!  I'm sorry to hear that the article on device drivers was rejected. Did
it cover *writing* device drivers or just installing them?  When was it
submitted?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7644 S1/General Interest
    22-Oct-90  01:46:20
Sb: #7638-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

That I don't recall--this was somewhere over a year ago, I believe.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7646 S1/General Interest
    22-Oct-90  07:24:53
Sb: #7644-DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Hmmm...  I'll try to check into it.  We may still have the manuscript.

#: 7723 S1/General Interest
    24-Oct-90  09:12:35
Sb: #7634-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Dave,

We'd would be glad if you wrote some articles for DDJ -- and I am sure you can
get any number of the local gurus who are intimate with OSK and magazine
politics to help you get it to slide in for submission. Pete Lyall and Kevin
Darling are two folks who come to mind who are literate knowledgeable, and in
Kevin's case, pretty darn eager to have OSK in every corner of every house in
the world.

At least I think I am characterizing Kevin correctly!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7726 S1/General Interest
    24-Oct-90  12:31:18
Sb: #7723-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Well, I may not need help on the submission side since I'm a member of the DDJ
staff.  I *could* use some help on the technical side though.  I'm about to
start playing with OS-9 on the CoCo, but I'd imagine that OSK related articles
would be of more interest to the DDJ readership.  Thanks for your suggestion!

David

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7749 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  15:31:00
Sb: #7726-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Oops.

Ideas for OSK:

Interprocess communication. File locking in the real world. Writing ROMable
software for fun and profit (who does it, how). Motorola 680x0 architecture and
OS-9 design.

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7754 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  15:41:48
Sb: #7749-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Thanks for the ideas, Paul.

BTW, what is the physical size of the MM/1 board?  Is it the size of a 5.25
inch drive or is it larger?  How much power does it draw and at what voltages? 
I've got a dual drive floppy case that I got to use with floppies for a CoCo3
system.  After playing with a CoCo3 for a few hours, I think I've decided to
wait for one of the 68K based systems.  I'm wondering whether the MM/1 will fit
in my enclosure.  It is large enough for two full height floppy drives mounted
side by side.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7755 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  15:46:42
Sb: #7754-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Dave,

Why don't you give me a call at 202 232 4246?

Call 9:30 - 6:30 M-F.

The MM/1 boards are 4" x 7" and extremely low power draw -- CMOS stuff.

Togehter, on the right spacers, they stack about two inches tall -- the
backplane that ships witht the dual board system is about three inches tall.

Regards!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7756 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  16:25:40
Sb: #7755-DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

Thanks.  I'll try to give you a call tomorrow. David

#: 7761 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  18:04:37
Sb: #7634-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

David -

How about getting your fellow Technical Editor Mike Floyd to do a year-long
series where he writes a complete OOP C package for OS-9? <grin>  We'd all
appreciate that.

Okay, okay ;-).  Let's see.  Drat, I'm in a joking mood right now.  Hafta think
about this some more.  In the meantime, please ignore these:

 * A comparison of modern structured Basics which are useable from a remote
terminal (that shouldn't leave much except Basic09 :).

 * A list of 8-bit OS's which are still _growing_ in popularity?

 * A list of OS's with fewer than 100,000 functions defined; each less than 80
characters in name length (oops, a dig at Windows :). Let's just make it: OS's
shaped around Motorola asm philosophy - a good set of core calls anyone could
memorize right down to the parameters required.

 * A humorous look back at magazine articles circa 1983, which tended to
believe MP/M, Oasys, and Unix would be the only multitasking OS's to stick
around, and no multiuser OS would ever be available on anything but expensive
16-bit business micros. (oh yeah? tell that to coco types who regularly
remotely login to their own systems).

 * A list of m/ting Operating Systems which are well-liked by _both_ their
users and their programmers... and for which it's common to find even casual
users who are willing and able to do their own programming.  Oh heck, make it
ALL operating systems.  Ever hear anyone say: "I _love_ MSDOS"??

Wait. I'm getting too serious <grin>.  I'll continue in another message when I
stop screwing around.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7774 S1/General Interest
    26-Oct-90  07:19:34
Sb: #7761-DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Actually, I'm working on an object-oriented language for publication in DDJ
myself.  It is based on C syntax extended with class definitions and message
passing.  It's written in standard C and I'm sure I could get it to run under
OS-9 (if I had an OS-9 machine to work with).  Is there a standard windowing
system for OS-9 that could be used to put together an integrated environment?

#: 7762 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  18:05:11
Sb: #7634-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Seriously:

* An article on the benefits of automatic record-locking (and EOF lock) in OS9,
as compared to the explicit locking required (sometimes on entire files) under
most (if not all) OS's.

Automatic locking is great: You don't have to worry about writing such
protection into your programs.  You can add explicit locking, but 99.9% of all
code doesn't do or need that (fancy databases might want to on occasion).
Perhaps you could write about cases that need this?

BTW, my two favorite record / EOF locking stories are:

1. Coupla years ago, an Apple rep on BYTE's Computer Chronicles show talked
about Apple moving to a multitasking OS, and how new and neat this all was.
Gary Kildall, amused by the guy's naivity, commented: "Ooooo gee, something
nobody has thought of... since 1980 at least!".

Then the Apple rep really got out of his depth, and said that older Mac apps
would have no problems running together.  Gary pounced: "Oh yeah? What about
record-locking??  How are you going to prevent data destruction when these
single-task-written programs go after the same files??" The poor Apple guy
could only stammer out that "maybe some programs would have to be
rewritten".... Gary leaned back and replied "Yeah. No kidding."

2. Hearing an Amiga user talk about the benefits of multitasking.  "Why, I can
use my de-GIF program on a picture I just finished downloading, AND I can be
downloading a second GIF at the same time!  Neat, eh?"

"Sure" yawns the OS9er, "but I run my de-GIF program on a picture WHILE it
downloads, to see if it's going to be any good. No good?  Abort transfer. EOF
locking keeps the two programs in step."   Matter of fact, a friend the other
day was:  downloading a GIF, de-GIFing to another file, converting THAT second
file to another format, and displaying the result... all with different
programs, all in automatic lock-step.  The programs didn't know it, or have to
be written special.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7775 S1/General Interest
    26-Oct-90  07:24:30
Sb: #7762-#DDJ article ideas
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Hmmm...  EOF locking sounds interesting.  Can you recommend some good books
that describe OS-9 from a technical viewpoint?  After a brief experience with a
CoCo3, I think I've come to the conclusion that I need to use a 68K version of
OS-9 for any articles I might write, so I'd like to find a good book on
OS-9/68K.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions!

David Betz

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7783 S1/General Interest
    26-Oct-90  18:06:05
Sb: #7775-DDJ article ideas
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

I wouldn't presume to judge which is the best book, but...

Peter Dibble's *OS-9 Insights* is a good book on OS-9/68000, and can be ordered
from Microware.

Also, Microware publishes *The OS-9 Catalog*, which has a pretty good overview
of OS-9/68000.  The price is certainly right--they'll give you a copy if you
ask for one and give them an address to which to send it.

#: 7763 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  18:05:42
Sb: #7634-DDJ article ideas
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Here's another silly idea for a DDJ article, but it appeals to me somehow:

 "A History of Cult Languages and Operating Systems Over the Years"
                   (and how they have fared)

"  Looking out over the tepid oceans of mass-market systems, it's hard to
believe that still waters run deep.  But deep down and often hidden from
popular press view, there are undercurrents of operating system and language
enthusiasts flowing in their own direction.  Sometimes these hot currents
bubble to the top (like Forth); sometimes they create whole new oceans (Unix).
   But they all have this in common:  their users are called 'fanatics'... and
their waves can wash up suddenly and explosively at times to change the ocean's
face.. and make bored travelers take notice."  Etc... <grin>

Hey, I'm serious!  Just think how many off-the-wall readers who would enjoy
such an article.  You could hit on the topic of nearly every language and OS
around... it'd be quite popular, I'd think.  Not to mention the great arguments
you could start ;-).  Besides, fractals and OOPs articles get real boring after
a while...  one of the endearing things about DDJ was its well,
unconventionalness at times.  Need to get back to that.

Let's see. You could also include cult stuff which became popular later. Like
Unix and C and Forth and Modula etc.  Cult systems growing, like OS9. Cult
systems disappearing, like CP/M users.

You could also do an article on "whatever happened to xxx?", and bring in
zillions of letters from people who are still using xxx <smile>.  Just some
thoughts.  I bet DDJ staffers would have some keen ideas on this. - kev

PS: loved the Software Patent article.  Good for DDJ!

#: 7637 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    21-Oct-90  20:39:11
Sb: #7617-Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Thanks Kev,  I have not been able to get a bootable disk with cc3io missing
from os9boot.  I have been able to get a bootable disk without iniz t2 in the
startup file.  I will get back with you on that.  You may have an answer on the
top of your head.  I think that I will start spending the time and do a
dissassembly of the code.  I am looking at cc3io now.  Using idir, after boot
up, I don't see the cc3io driver loaded but I would not discount that it is
being used some where and then terminated.  It is strange!  If I turn off the
computer and try to boot without cc3io present in os9boot, it will just keep
the disk drive spinning and IT WILL NOT LOAD the entire system.  I am guessing
this from the activity of the disk drive.  If I boot up with a good system,
then try to reboot with the disk without cc3io in the boot file I will get the
message BOOT FAILED on my coco3 screen.  Interesting...  Has anyone in' the
forum had a chance to try this?  I still can't figure it out.  If someone has
been successful, then I know something else is astray.

#: 7819 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Oct-90  23:27:45
Sb: #7395-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

~ Bill,

I have made a bootdisk that booted on /t2 instead of /term. All I did was
change the INIT module to look for /t2 instead of /term (setting the high bit
on the "2" in T2) and when booting OS9 BOOT shows on the CoCo Screen and the
whole copyright message and everything from then on is on the terminal. I did
not delete any module  from the bootfile. You could remove the windows and
 /term and maybe GrfInt but you cannot remove cc3io. Since you trying to do
this to conserve memory it will not help. OS9 Level II grabs a whole 64K area
for the system modules and its own stuff. Deleting these modules will not
increase your memory. By booting on a terminal you do eliminate loading of
grfdrv which does not occupy the system RAM space. Shell also cannot be put in
the system ram. I have tried putting grfdrv in the bootfile and it won't take
it. I have not tried doing that to shell.

You have the right idea and does work for Level I but not for Level II. wit.
booting on /t2 with your boot as-is (except INIT to boot to /t2) you will have
56K of memory left (provided shell is 8K only and you do not load anything
else) thats enough for the C compiler. However I do agroe with Kevin, 512K is
the best option and nowadays its not as expensive and will yield benefits (like
being able to load all the Compilers modules into memory for speed)


Mike

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7900 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  20:08:30
Sb: #7819-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 (X)

Mike, thanks for the response.  Do you have any idea why you can't eliminate
cc3io from the boot file in level 2? So far, I have not been able to eliminate
it, but I don't know WHY?  You said that OS9 level 2 grabs 64k bytes for the
system.  I think you may want to go back and rethink this.  Based on my
observation it is not true.  I have been able to get mfree to report 64K bytes
free when I changed INIT to point to /t2 and I have a merged shell file almost
equal to 8K bytes.  I agree that 56K is enough to run the C Compiler and also
that the memory upgrade is the way to go.  My problem is more retorical now.
Why is cc3io required???



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7930 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  00:48:35
Sb: #7900-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

cc3io handles signals and irq's in and out of the system. (Kevin can verify
this) i dunno how you get 64K free unless shell is in the bootfile. but you
will never get more then 64K on a 128K system.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7944 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Nov-90  22:50:04
Sb: #7930-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715

Nope, Kevin can't verify why cc3io is necessary.  He told me just the opposite,
he can't understand why it would be necessary if I defined /t2 as the initial
standard path string in the init module.  My shell file is not loaded as part
of the boot file.  This should clarify your question/comment.  Based on the
output of dirm, it appears that I might be able to squeak out one more 8K block
and end up with a free memory of 72K.  I am curious why you thought/(think) the
system automatically takes up 64k?  I am also curious about why you think that
64K bytes is the maximum memory obtainable with a 128K byte CoCo3?  Mike, your
name is familiar to me, therefore I believe that you have been a long time
contributor to this forum, and have also probably uploaded files to the data
base.  If you think that I am discounting what you have said,  I'm not.  It
just doesn't jive with my observations.  I am not positive that I can get
another 8K blocks if I eliminate cc3io, but it sure looks that way to me at the
moment.  Kevin appears to be extremely busy and has not been able to follow
through on my question. Since you have already made a boot file with /t2
defined as the initial path in init, do you think you would have time to
experiment and confirm my observation?, (ie. see if you can get a bootable disk
with cc3io missing from the os9boot module).  Thanks for your time and
response.

For other forum members with Tandy documentation reading this message, be
forewarned.  The diagram for the INIT Module, (pg 159 in level 1 blue book and
page A-3 under the Technical Reference tab in the level 2 documentation), is
incorrect. They forgot to put in the offset to the initial path in the diagram.
It properly belongs at an offset of $12-$13 where the offset to Bootstrap
module name string is shown. The proper offset to the bootstrap name should be
$14-$15 and the Name strings at $16-n. I don't remember anyone mentioning this
documentation error.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7945 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    02-Nov-90  23:05:10
Sb: #7944-#Reduced system memory
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102 (X)

Bill - btw, try this too:  use dEd or similar to change the internal module
name of CC3IO to something bogus... like "XC3IO".  If it's still required for
booting to /t2, then it _must_ be the BLOB doing a dance on ya <grin>.  Cuz OS9
wouldn't be able to find "cc3io", of course.

Nope, haven't had a chance to try it here yet.  Couldn't even find my modules
disk, it's been so long since I made a coco boot!  Yikes.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7966 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  14:37:44
Sb: #7945-Reduced system memory
Fm: Bill O'Brien 73167,3102
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I'll try it Kevin, but I haven't been able to see where this module is called
from the system!

#: 7639 S7/Telecommunications
    21-Oct-90  21:03:12
Sb: UUCP --- huh?
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: All

With all the confusion over what exactly UUCP is and what it can do, as well as
what's required to make it work, I have uploaded two files to the Telcom
Library (LIB 7) that might help shed some light.

Taken from Mark Griffith's monster archive UUCP.AR are:

UUCP.TXT - - - the UUCP manual. This document explains the workings of Mark's
6809 UUCP port. It is not a tutorial on UUCP.

UUCP.REQ - - - system requirements. What do you need to run the UUCP port.


I'm still looking for a good description of UUCP. If/when I can find that, I'll
add it to the collection.

These files will be viewable after the 2:00 am (CDT) merge-o-matic.

Steve

#: 7640 S9/Utilities
    21-Oct-90  21:29:08
Sb: #7451-#Rssave
Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Mainly, I didn't see way you would assume RSDOS to be located in /dd/cmds.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7642 S9/Utilities
    21-Oct-90  21:55:28
Sb: #7640-#Rssave
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106 (X)

Where else would it be?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7833 S9/Utilities
    28-Oct-90  10:35:19
Sb: #7642-#Rssave
Fm: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Anywhere a user choose to place it.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7882 S9/Utilities
    28-Oct-90  22:32:09
Sb: #7833-Rssave
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: KEVIN JOHNSON 76475,1106

why not your current CMDS directory. that is where you usually load it from.

#: 7647 S3/Languages
    22-Oct-90  08:04:54
Sb: #7612-#Cross Compiler
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg -

Best address for me is:

   pete@wlbr.imsd.contel.com   -or- pete%wlbr@wlv.imsd.contel.com

Assuming that he has access to the Internet (BITNET/ARPANET/MILNET).. If not,
I'll have to scounge up a UUCP address.

Re:  Greenhills... last time I was associated with it was around 5 years back,
and I'm pretty out of date. I do painfully little code generation these days...
mostly proposals (sigh). BTW, did you hear that Contel is being bought by GTE?

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7733 S3/Languages
    24-Oct-90  20:12:37
Sb: #7647-Cross Compiler
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Yes. As a loyal GTE employee I suppose I should bve glad. Still sprint was
owned by GTE and it is the only long distance company to lose money. Wonder
what the future holds for CONTEL? tnx <greg>

#: 7649 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Oct-90  11:00:27
Sb: #Education Market
Fm: CRAIG WYNN 72125,466
To: Paul Ward 73477,2004 (X)

In a recent interview with John Scully he mentioned in effect that the release
of the new cheap Mac's was their way of saying they are going after the home
market.  This marketing stradegy is going to get them into the public school
class rooms like it did for them with their Apple machines.  I don't want to
see another OS9 machine like the COCO was get beached for the likes of the
Apple just because of marketing or lack of it.

The education market is ripe with a renewed national concern about our youth
being prepared to compete on the world market. 

One of the best all around educational software products on the market I
believe is the LOGO language.  The best of the lot is LCSI's "Logowriter".  It
runs on the Apples, IBM PC's and a soon to be released version for the Mac's. 
Another outfit is Piradigan that sells, believe it or not, a OPPS Logo.  It is
the only language/enviornment sold today that was designed from the ground up
to nourish the intellect.  It is being written into the North Dakota Teachers
Guidelines that all students by grade 6 should have experienced Logo.  This is
to go into effect by 1991.

Once upon a time Tandy had a OS9 version of Logo called DL LOGO. 

Put one of these software products on the MM1 and I can sell my public school
on the MM1 period.      

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7650 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Oct-90  11:43:20
Sb: #7649-Education Market
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: CRAIG WYNN 72125,466 (X)

Well, since LOGO is pretty much the same as LISP with a slightly different
syntax, I suppose I could build and XLOGO from either XLISP or better yet,
XScheme.  I wonder if there would be a demand for this on the MM1 or the TC70?

#: 7678 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Oct-90  21:02:05
Sb: #7649-#Education Market
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: CRAIG WYNN 72125,466 (X)

Excellent suggestion about LOGO! Mark Sheffield, are you listening?

Actually, we are pursuing getting ourselves on the purchasing schedules of
several school systems, so we will be getting clear and accurate guidelines to
follow.

BTW, I think that the recession and the rise of interest in UNIX and multimedia
will put the MM/1 in good stead.

Remember, too, that the Macs primary selling point is a user interface that
make s the computer "generic". That is, if you put a similar interface on a
different computer, then it ceases to be relevant that the computer is a Mac,
or an IBM, or a UNIX workstation.

And with the user interface we are developing (slowly now, quicker after the
MM/1 starts shipping), we'll do just fine against the cheap Mac.

After all, you can network ours cheaper, make it multiuser, do color
multimedia, and so on. Plus, we have twice the clock rate!

Not to mention that it seems like UNIX underneath, and if UNIX does as well as
I think it will in the next three years, OS-9 will get a great kick!

Paul

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7717 S15/Hot Topics
    24-Oct-90  06:49:20
Sb: #7678-Education Market
Fm: CRAIG WYNN 72125,466
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Mark

I can appreciate the +'s of the MM1 vs say a Mac.  Without the sort
of software I mentioned its a now show though for the MM1.  I cann't
promote possibilites I'am afraid to say.  Logo puts an individual right in
charge of most of the computers enviornment with little programing skill.  Once
he catches on to what programing is the same language is fully capable of
fullfilling futher insights into programing.  Sure the MM1 has all the bells
and whistles put it is essential that you provide a tool like LOGO that can
ring the bells and blow the whistles.

Craig

#: 7651 S3/Languages
    22-Oct-90  11:57:10
Sb: #7621-RMA woes
Fm: Richard Ries 76057,3534
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Thanks, Kev. Unfortunately, my Coco 3 blew up. Nothing dramatic, it just
blanked out. I think it's the 6809. However, I can't find any decent software
for my like of work (Embedded Systems Programmer), so I'm going to dump almost
all the Coco stuff and concentrate on the MS-DOS stuff. Yeah, I know the OS
stinks (to put it mildly), but that's where the apps are. The advanced BASICs
(Quick BASIC & Turbo BASIC are almost as good as BASIC09, and there are a
number of other languages for a couple bucks each. Of course, if I get a 386
machine, and the price comes down, I'll probably get OS/9000. I'll be around
here for a while, then switch over mostly to the Software Engineering Group at
the CLM forum. Thanks again, RIch

#: 7652 S3/Languages
    22-Oct-90  11:58:54
Sb: #7624-#RMA woes
Fm: Richard Ries 76057,3534
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

The idea was to learn how to do my own assembly interfacing. ( I could also use
"PRINT CHR$(7)", but...) Rich

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7655 S3/Languages
    22-Oct-90  15:17:23
Sb: #7652-RMA woes
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Richard Ries 76057,3534

Yeah, that's what I figgered. Just wanted to bug ya! <grin>

Zack

#: 7653 S1/General Interest
    22-Oct-90  12:19:49
Sb: CoCo ByeBye
Fm: Richard Ries 76057,3534
To: ALL

The Coco has blown up, and so have I. As a result, I'm divesting myself (ha!
-real fancy word for dumping! 8-) of my OS9 stuff. The entire load can be had
for $350. (This portion of the offer is open until 10/29/90) The pieces, where
no price is indicated, are $5.00 each. Not all of the equipment is in working
order. Where this is the case, I have so noted. The List: 2 ea. CoCo3, 512K NOT
WORKING, probably bad CPU. <$25.00 ea.> 1 ea. R/S 300 baud modem 1 ea. R/S
Speech/Sound Pak 1 ea. Botek S/P Printer Interface 1 ea RS-232 Pak 1 ea. MPI
<$15.00> 1 ea. R/S floppy controller 2 ea. Full-hight Drive cases with power
supplies 1 ea. Magnavox Green Mono. monitor <$50.00> 1 ea. Disto MPROM
programmer <$20.00> 1 ea. % Meg. ASCP Hard Drive <$30.00> - It works, so far.
SOFTWARE- All original, no copies. OS-9 LevelII with Development sys. and
Multi-view <$100.00> C-compiler <$25.00> Pascal compiler <$25.00> TSEdit TSWord
TRSCopy Pt File System Repack Presto-partner OS(9 Level I The Wiz EZGen Erina
Ved PCXFER utilities Xterm XED Burke & Burke R.S.B. B&B Wild + Mv BOOKS-
 3rd book of adventures, BASIC09 Tour Guide, Rainbow guide to OS-9 Levels I &
II

If you're interested, send me EMAIL, and I'll get your address. NOTE- Money
orders only for payment- it makes life so much easier! Rich

#: 7656 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon
    22-Oct-90  15:19:48
Sb: #Extended BBS hours
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: ALL

The BBS by the Sea! announces new extended hours of operation. Onw online for
24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 1200/2400 bps 8N1. (still having problems with
300 bps).

Zack Sessions, SysOp

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7665 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon
    22-Oct-90  17:16:08
Sb: #7656-#Extended BBS hours
Fm: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

{Zack,

I think you left something important out of the previous message, won't we need
a phone number to get to the "BBS by the Sea"? Or do you know something we
don't? ;-)

Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7680 S8/BBS Systems/TSMon
    22-Oct-90  21:16:06
Sb: #7665-Extended BBS hours
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Bill Dickhaus 70325,523 (X)

Whoops, hee, hee, sorry 'bout that! The number for The BBS by the Sea! is

[D (919) 675-1847.

#: 7657 S7/Telecommunications
    22-Oct-90  15:25:11
Sb: #7629-#uploading
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Robert,
 TANSTAFL (you know - There Ain't No Such Thing As a Free Lunch). Someone pays
for those leased lines between the computers, believe me. And they also pay the
incremental for the higher bandwidth links.
 > Somehow, this logic slips by me.
 Good. I was kidding. I'll refrain from now on <sigh>.
 Mark

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7681 S7/Telecommunications
    22-Oct-90  21:17:05
Sb: #7657-#uploading
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X)

I think it is supposed to be spelled TANSTAAFL.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7688 S7/Telecommunications
    23-Oct-90  07:48:45
Sb: #7681-uploading
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Oops - I couldn't find my dictionary when I was composing that message <g>.

#: 7659 S7/Telecommunications
    22-Oct-90  15:27:59
Sb: #7629-uploading
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

James,
 Disregard msg #7657.
 Mark

#: 7658 S7/Telecommunications
    22-Oct-90  15:27:08
Sb: #7626-upload prices
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

Oops, see message #7657. It's meant for you.
 Mark

#: 7710 S7/Telecommunications
    23-Oct-90  22:25:24
Sb: #7626-upload prices
Fm: William Phelps 75100,265
To: Robert A. Larson 75126,723 (X)

Uploading of replies can be done; if it could not, then you would not be
reading this message.

It is interesting that you mention the cost of NSFnet. However, what you did
not mention was that NSF is subsidized by the government.  What do you think
the chances are of a company like H&R Block getting a subsidy.  There is a 
small chance if all 600,000+ subscribers write to their Congresspersons.

And just so you will have real figures, I suggest that you try B+ once -- even
if you NEVER use it again.


William

#: 7660 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Oct-90  16:13:35
Sb: #Adding a 2nd drive
Fm: Ken St.Clair 71615,267
To: All

Can anyone tell me what I would need to do to add a 3 1/2" 720K floppy to my
FD-502 (which brand drive, cable changes, power requirements)???  My FD-502
currently has only one 5 1/4" drive in it.  I'm fairly certain I could handle
the S/W configuration (OS-9 L2) but I'd like to know more about what needs to
be done H/W wise.   Thanks.

                                Ken.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7667 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Oct-90  19:42:43
Sb: #7660-#Adding a 2nd drive
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Ken St.Clair 71615,267 (X)

Ken,

I did the same thing you're trying to do with the3.5 drive. It wasn't too big a
deal. A 5.25 mounting bracket made it a snap.

Take a peek at TINYDR.TXT in LIB 2 and see if that doesn't answer your
questions.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7709 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Oct-90  22:12:09
Sb: #7667-#Adding a 2nd drive
Fm: Ken St.Clair 71615,267
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Thanks Steve!  That was exactly the info I was looking for!

                           Ken

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7718 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    24-Oct-90  06:54:17
Sb: #7709-Adding a 2nd drive
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Ken St.Clair 71615,267 (X)

As I recall ... using the 5.25 adapter, all the wiring info is taken care of
for you. I just used it to double check things.

Give a holler if you find yourself in trouble.

Steve

#: 7661 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  16:25:37
Sb: #7623-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)


Hi Jack!

You've got some interesting ideas - send me your voice line number and hours
you can be reached.  I'd like to talk to you further.

I like the idea of a PT users group.  But, I have reservations about my taking
the lead.  I think that such a group should be totally independent of any
person or organization having a financial interest in the product. It is too
hard to remain _totally_ objective.  I am handling the national sales for PT
for the SYSTEM IV (PT68K4).  Maybe you can take on the leadership role - at
least temporarily.  I can help and if necessary, act as a focal point.  Or, you
might want to talk to Dan Farnsworth in Florida. Re a BBS, I'd be happy to set
one up.  I do have the phone lines and hardware necessary but I lack the
software.  Do you know of a good BBS program that runs on under OSK?  And, it
may be possible to set-up something here on the OS9 forum or on CIS. (Wayne,
will you allow non-OS9 discussions and a library in this forum?)

I'm sure you are aware of the OSKer.  This is intended to support OS9/68000. I
don't know whether Scott will accept articles that are non-OS9.

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7662 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  16:26:40
Sb: #7661-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

(Continued)

You may want to contact Jim Destafeno at 1-302-492-8511.  (Jim's out of town
until Saturday.)  He is planning a newsletter/magazine devoted to hardware and
operating systems that don't have good publications of their own. (Dan
Farnsworth's idea.)  Fred has agreed to give him his mailing list and I think
he is in touch with Peter Stark re incorporating his newsletter. I'm sure Jim
will support a PT user's group in his periodical.  I believe he's planning on
the first issue coming out the beginning of the year.

I've heard of Ron Anderson but haven't talked to him.  Do you have his phone
number?  And, I'd like to join your group if I may.

You can reach me at 302-378-2555 from about 4 AM to about 7 or 8 PM.  When I
come home, I usually crash.  Besides, my wife won't let me have a computer at
home :-)!!

Ed (Gresick - DELMAR CO)



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7670 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  19:56:39
Sb: #7662-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

That's _VERY_ interesting about Jim Destafeno.  I'll try to get him. There's a
definite need for such a newsletter since the demise of MicroC. They used to
cover a lot of the oddball systems, languages, etc.

Re Ron Anderson:  I can't lay my hands on a number, but you can reach him at

 3540 Sturbridge Ct.
 Ann Arbor, MI 48105

Ron's a really nice guy, and we communicate often.

As a matter of fact, I've talked at one time or another, either by phone or
mail, with most of the guys involved in 68000 stuff.  That includes Ron, Dan
Farnsworth, Jim Jones (of RBASIC fame), Sidney Thompson, Peter Stark, and Bud
Pass.  Also John Spray.  Don't know if you know John, but he wrote a delightful
little language and compiler called Whimsical.  It's Pascal-like, but simpler,
and compiles at the speed of light.  Ron and I are both in love with it.  John
lived in New Zealand, and Ron actually flew there to meet him.  Ron rewrote all
of his software from whatever the Flex language was (PL?) to Whimsical.  One of
the things that impresses me about it is the tiny object files.  There is
virtually no run-time library, so programs can be really small ... the lower
limit is ZERO bytes.  John just moved from New Zealand to Ann Arbor (!) to work
with Ron.

Most of the guys seem extremely nice.  Dan Farnsworth seems nice, but a little
strange.  Bud Pass is not nice.

[More]



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7671 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  19:56:52
Sb: #7670-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

[Continued]

Oh,  yeah.  Forgot to mention Mike Evenson.  Mike runs a BBS for 68K stuff from
Texas.  He's very nice and helpful, also.  Lately, though, Mike and his BBS
have been almost exclusively devoted to Minix.  He's put an incredible amount
of work into it (with no rewards in sight) and has it pretty much down to a
cookbook installation.

More on OS's:  I seem to have somehow become a collector.  I mentioned
somewhere on CIS that I wished I could get CP/M for the 68000.  Turns out
there's a company that still sells it, and I bought a copy.  It has to be
installed with a custom BIOS, and I haven't got around to that, yet.  It comes
with the necessary tools, including a PC-based cross-assembler to help build
the BIOS.

Before that, Sidney Thompson recommended me to Joe Bartel of Hawthorne
Industries, who developed K-OS for his Tiny Giant 68008 system.  He wanted me
to port K-OS to the PT.  I was in the middle of an article and the linker at
the time, so I told him I couldn't do it right away.  He said that was OK, and
sent me the system and PC-based tools.  Later on, I heard that Joe and
Hawthorne sort of lost interest in the whole thing.  They got some kind of big
government contract to build hardware, so they dropped the TG and K-OS, but I
still have the software.

So I find myself in this funny position of having the possibility of not one,
but _FIVE_ OS's running on my machine, not counting the one I want to write
myself!  All I need to to is to find the time to install them all!

Jack



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7695 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Oct-90  17:27:47
Sb: #7671-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)


Hi Jack!

I looked over your activities and estimated your times - I see only 24 3/4
hours a day being used.  What are you doing with the other 15 minutes?  <grin>
But I guess we can't have brain explosions - too messy!

Re the BBS - I did not mean to infer that the BBS be restricted to OS9. Rather,
I run OS9 exclusively and need a BBS that will run under it.  The board should
be wide open to any and all PT users regardless of the OS.

OSKer is published by -
    Scott Griepentrog
    StG Computers, Inc.
    PO Box 24285
    Speedway, IN  46224
    A Subscription is $12.00 per year. Scott is on this forum.  You might leave
him a message.  He may send you a sample issue.

I'm familar with some of the names you mentioned but you also came up with some
new ones.  I'm fascinated with some of the other OS's.  One of these days I'd
like to play around with some of them.

Kevin Darling mentioned one point re the OS9 UG which has been a problem. That
is maintaining one central address regardless of who is the leader. As I said
before, I can provide a focal point and provide a base address. And (most of
the time) we have the necessary help to handle the more mundane tasks.  You
have a good knowledge of the members of this community - maybe you can get one
of the others to take on the leadership role.  If absolutely necessary, I am
willing to try and organize things but I still feel it would be better if
someone else undertook this role.

Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7701 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Oct-90  20:21:49
Sb: #7695-OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Well, I'd sure like to see a Pt68 UG, and I'll do what I can to help.  I just
don't know if I'm ready for another job in the job jar.

Thanks for the lead on OSKer.  Do you have Scott's PPN?

Jack



#: 7668 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  19:56:23
Sb: #7661-#OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed, my address is

  1220 E. Idlewild Ave.           Phone (813) 539-3995 (days)
  Tampa, Fla. 33604                     (813) 237-0537 (nights)

If you call at home, you'll get the answering machine.  We leave it on all the
time to screen the crank calls and siding salemen.  So don't hang up too soon.

I'd love to lead a PT user's group, but I'm afraid my job jar is slap full.
Right now I'm:

 o Designing my own computer language
 o Writing two articles for Computer Language magazine
 o Writing a tutorial series on compilers (now entering third year!)
 o Just signed to write a book on the same subject
 o Writing a paper for Software Development '91
 o Developing new versions of my two tools for SK*DOS (debugger and linker)
 o Developing one new one (an assembler preprocessor)
 o Thinking about the next step, which is a relocating assembler & linker
 o Dreaming of writing my own OS
 o Serving as program chairman for the local ACM chapter

If I take on one more job, I think my brain might explode!

One thing: If there _IS_ a PT-related BBS, I'd rather _NOT_ see it devoted to
one OS like OS9, but roughly split.  There's a growing group of Minix users. 
Maybe I could interest one of Peter's BBS regulars.  I'll try.

[More]



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7669 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  19:56:28
Sb: #7668-OSK BACKUP
Fm: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327
To: Jack Crenshaw 72325,1327 (X)

[Continued]

Re the OSKer:  No, I wasn't aware of it.  I'm a rank neophyte with OS9,
although I'm familiar with Unix, Minix, and their grandaddy, Multics.

Jack



#: 7683 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  21:51:18
Sb: #7661-OSK BACKUP
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed -

 > I like the idea of a PT users group.  But, I have reservations about
 > my taking the lead.  I think that such a group should be totally
 > independent of any person or organization having a financial interest
 > in the product. It is too hard to remain _totally_ objective.

My recommendation is that you _do_ take the lead.  First, it'd be about
specific hardware, which means there's not much need to be objective. Well,
perhaps any newsletter _would_ need to have a "non-censored" letters section in
case someone differed badly with your opinions <grin>.

But more importantly, the OS9 UG experience was that an independent group can
run into difficulties:  the worst of which is any changing of base addresses.
When its maildrop changed from Des Moines to Florida, for example, it took well
over a _year_ to straighten out the delayed mail going to the wrong place. 
Changing to yet another address is almost out of the question because of that
one experience.  The best address would've been at MW, to be honest.

Also, you'd be in a better position to have a full list of PT owners.  Etc.
Whether you ended up with your own BBS, or using CIS or whatever, it'd still be
better off with _you_ being the core backer (or at least, contact address) of
any PT UG.  Anyway, that's my feeling right now.  best - kev

#: 7663 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Oct-90  16:51:14
Sb: #OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: joe novosel 76220,1270
To: all

I am looking for a way to auto boot os/9 on a coco 3 on power up. I have no
need to retain RS-DOS.  A rom to put in my disk controler would be ideal

thanks, Joe Novosel

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7664 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Oct-90  17:15:21
Sb: #7663-OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: joe novosel 76220,1270 (X)

Joe -

I used to sell an autoboot EPROM a while back. Still have the images (EPROM).
Let me know if you're interested, and I'll send you the scoop via Email.

Pete

#: 7682 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    22-Oct-90  21:19:16
Sb: #7663-#OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: joe novosel 76220,1270 (X)

You have three options I am aware of.

1) XT-ROM from Burke & Burke
2) Extended ADOS-3
3) Puppo Keyboard Interface

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7704 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Oct-90  21:48:34
Sb: #7682-OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: joe novosel 76220,1270
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Thanks, I will look into those options. Joe Novosel

#: 7820 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Oct-90  23:27:57
Sb: #7663-#OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: joe novosel 76220,1270 (X)

~ There is another option. I use Pete's Auto-boot ROM which all it really does
is auto-exec the DOS command on power up. This allows for me to still use RSDOS
stuff (which is rare)

I have a file that allows you to patch nd put REL BOOT OS9P1 into a Eprom and
stick it in the CoCo.. this is the kernal of OS9 by the way.. then on power up
it will auto-load OS9Boot and away ya go... If interested ill upload it if it
does not exist on the fourm.

Mike

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7894 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  09:34:22
Sb: #7820-#OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: joe novosel 76220,1270
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 (X)

Yes, I'm definately interested in that!! Putting os/9 in rom is more like whatI
need anyway.

My main application for this is a dedicated control system so it would be nice
to ROM the whole thing if possible. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks, Joe Novosel 76220,1270

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7929 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  00:47:07
Sb: #7894-#OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: joe novosel 76220,1270 (X)

i can upload the file to burn the kernal into ROM if you want



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7934 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  18:17:59
Sb: #7929-OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: joe novosel 76220,1270
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715

Yes, I would really appreciate that!  I am also using this in a COCO II running
level I.  Will this work for that system as well? Thanks, Joe Novosel

#: 7975 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Nov-90  01:47:24
Sb: #7929-OS/9 Auto Boot on COCO3
Fm: Marcelo Katzeff 72520,640
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715

Yes please, I'll apreciatte it. Thanks.

#: 7672 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Oct-90  20:14:53
Sb: #OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: all

Software Consortium or Coalition.

I would like to propose that all OS9 software/hardware suppliers join together
to form a software consortium. The purpose of this would be the following:

 * Insure that software will be compatible on different
   hardware platforms.

 * Create a set of rules for software to follow.

 * Insure that software will be written to follow those
   rules.

 * Reduce or eliminate duplicate effort.

All members of the consortium would be required to offer their software in the
open market. Pricing would not be controlled by the consortium.

All members would be required to make available lists of the projects they are
working on to reduce duplicate effort. All would agree not to use this
information to circumvent another members efforts.

All members would agree to work together on key software to further insure
compatibility.

What we need at this juncture is a group effort to ensure that the greatest
amount of different software for OSK is produced. Although it might benefit one
company to make software unique to their hardware. It would require competitors
to duplicate this effort with the end result being that instead of many
different software packages being available, many of the same thing would be
available. In the long run this will result in a reduced market. (continued)

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7686 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  06:48:32
Sb: #7672-#OSK Software
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

This sounds like an interesting idea.  Something just occurred to me, though.
You've been selling QT boxes and K-bus boxes for a while, and Peripheral
Technology has been chugging along with ads in *68 Micro Journal* for some
time, too.  Seems like this would have been as good an idea some time back as
now.  Did the idea of a consortium only originate recently?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7699 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  18:58:14
Sb: #7686-OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

>This sounds like an interesting idea.  Something just >occurred to me, though.
You've been selling QT boxes >and K-bus boxes for a while, and Peripheral
Technology >has been chugging along with ads in *68 Micro Journal* >for some
time, too.  Seems like this would have been as >good an idea some time back as
now.  Did the idea of a >consortium only originate recently?

Dear Jim

Yes it did. Until now all OSK boxes ran with terminals and therefore were
compatible. Now we are entering a new era with windows, GUIs etc. People are
now doing graphics software and without any 'standard'. We could get into
trouble. This is an area where Microware 'should' have done something as a
windows and a GUI are more on the system level. However they have not and it is
up to us to do these things. Also we are now getting CoCo users, some with bad
habits, moving into the 68K arena. Software issues such as terminal support as
well as graphics support are foreign to many. Without guidelines everyone will
go off in different directions and Pandemonium will result.

There are a lot of issues that have to be discussed.

Keep the cards and letters coming.

Frank



#: 7793 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  09:39:45
Sb: #7672-#OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

I think its time for the consortium to start functioning.  Rather than a
chair-person, I'd like to suggest we have a 'secretary/moderator'.  We can
state our problems, areas of concerns, comments  and/or propsed solutions. The
secretary could codify these and when he felt we had arrived at a consesus
publish them for approval and posting on the board (or elsewhere). May I
further suggest that one of the sysops on this forum undertake this position. 
This will avoid unnecessary expense on the part of the individual. Two people
come to mind - either Steve Weigard or Mike Ward.  As far as I know, neither is
involved in any of the hardware nor are they doing any programming for profit. 
This will avoid any of the participants being subject to accusations of
conflict of interest.

There are many people out there programming for the OSK machines and they
_NEED_ this information so they won't have to redo their work.

Ed Gresick  DELMAR CO



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7818 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  22:28:33
Sb: #7793-#OSK Software
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

I assume that if this consortium forms, it would use the new private Section 13
as its discussion board, right? I think it's a good idea, but I bet a lot of
developers and vendors will balk at disclosing everything they're working on.
On the other hand, disclosing yourproject may discourage someone else from
doing a competitive product, so there is an incentive. Maybe even too much
incentive, to disclose vaporware?

But at least we could discuss standards for grafix, terminal support, user
interfaces, etc with compliance being voluntary.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7889 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  03:47:07
Sb: #7818-OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

kn1

Mike,

I believe the first task of the consortium will be to agree on 'standards'
between the hardware vendors.  This would deal mainly with screen control,
keyboard output, etc. standards - really agreement on a set of termcap entries
and for graphics - definitions.  There is the possiblity that a hardware vendor
may add some functions pecular to his machine.  Should this occur, the software
writer must be imformed of this so he may consider his options.  Other problems
may come up (like how is a mouse or other peripherals handled).  Platforms I
hadn't considered but should probably be considered are the Atari, the
industrial and business hardware. I doubt we can get representives from these
manufacturers so we'll have to 'wing it'.  (It may be decided not to consider
this hardware.)

I don't think we should be involved in establishing user interface standards. 
That should be left to the programmer - we can end up with some very innovative
user interfaces that way.  (Look at what Word Perfect did to Word Star in the
MS-DOS world.)

There is no way a programmer can be compelled to follow these standards; all we
can do is agree on a set of standards and disseminate the information. The most
we could do is 'certify' that the software will run in an identical manner on
the various platforms - but some sort of testing will have to be arranged to do
that.  And, in no way, shape or form can the consortium pass on the merits of a
program.  Let's leave that to the buyers and reviewers.

(Continued)

#: 7890 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  03:47:40
Sb: #7818-OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111


(Continued)

I only suggested that programmers disclose their projects to assist others in
deciding what project they should undertake.  Yes, there can be problems but I
think most if not all of the software writers (at least on this forum) will be
honest and not intentionally mislead others.  The potential market is big and
such practices are not necessary.  Also, there is nothing to prevent one
programmer from contacting another as to what his specific plans are. And, with
the programmers' permission, it would be desirable to let the buying public
know what's in the works - this will help them decide what and when to buy. 
Also, it will assist the hardware vendor informing his customers as to what is
in the works.  Yes, I'm aware of some of the projects but I'm not at liberty to
disclose or discuss them - a position I don't like as a hardware vendor.

I'd like to re-emphasize one point.  The consortium should be temporary - at
least so far as the hardware vendors are concerned.  We should be able to wrap
up our work fairly rapidly if we can get started.  It's function taken over by
a formal group as soon as possible (yes, I do believe we'll need one).

Ed Gresick  DELMAR CO

#: 7910 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:48:12
Sb: #7793-OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

 I guess there is no reason not to start. I think that is one way to get the
ball rolling. Have you checked with either of those two guys on doing this? We
definately need information out or everyone will go off in different
directions.

Frank

#: 7673 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Oct-90  20:15:41
Sb: #OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: all

(continued from last message)

This is what happened to the SS50 bus market, the manufactures spent all their
time fighting each other over petty things. The users tired of it and now there
is no SS50 market. There was a point when it could have been expanded to SS64
and support the 68K but when one manufacture came out with a viable solution
the other manufactures not only po-pooed it, they went out of their way to kill
it. The end result is the same.

Having seen this happen and seeing the way things are heading in this market, I
want to do what I can to prevent history from repeating itself. If this
consortium is set up properly  it will benefit all users, hardware and software
vendors. It will let the hardware and software vendors work on projects more
beneficial to them.

This is not to say that a hardware vendor, having spent a considerable amount
of money and effort to make his hardware/software more competitive should have
to share that without being compensated. In cases like this all he would be
required to do is offer the software at what ever is considered a reasonable
price for the other members hardware. This way he could still benefit from
offering it to his customers at reduced or free price and maintain a
competitive edge in reward for his efforts.

Everyone please respond to this request with you comments and suggestions. I
believe that this is more important to the future of OSK than you may think.

Thank You Frank Hogg

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7684 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Oct-90  22:42:54
Sb: #7673-#OSK Software
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

An excellent idea! Espescially for a small developer like myself; lets face
it--the market is far from unlimited and if I can sell a product to people with
a variety of OSK platforms then I _might_ even get my _costs_ back.

Are you offering to act as a clearing house? That might create problems since
you are a competitor, but I suppose that everyone involved in this will be a
competitor of some kind.

I take it that you are NOT suggesting that if a member is working on a XYZ
software package that others would not have the same right. It seem that the
problems you are speaking of are more in relation to system stuff. Having 2 or
more GUIs would be a disaster. And lets face it, with a system like OS9 there
should be NO excuses for incompatible software.

What do you mean by "rules for software to follow". Are you thinking of user
interfaces or mundane (important!!) stuff like default devices and port
addresses?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7696 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  17:29:58
Sb: #7684-OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)


Hi Bob!

I interpret 'rules for software to follow' as insuring compatibility of the
software from machine to machine.  User interface would be determine by the
programmer.

The current OSK market is much bigger than many realize.  Aside from CDI, its
biggest use is in 'imbedded systems' used by industry.  Today, a typical system
(without software) will start out at $15,000 and goes up (add a '0').  But, if
you look in the shop office where the equipment is located or used you'll also
find an MSDOS machine.  Why?  In most cases there AIN'T suitable software (read
that as no 'Word-Perfect' or equivalent and no '1-2-3' or equivalent).  We are
starting to see a database (SCULPTOR) used and we expect to sell more
SCULPTOR's to this market.  It is wide open to good software that looks and
feels like MSDOS software (but - you'll have to watch copyrights).  This market
is accustumed to paying good money for software.  Penetrate the 'shop' office
and we can start making inroads to the main office.  If the market can develop,
you can stop working for peanuts - you will be paid in walnuts <grin>.

Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO



#: 7700 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  19:10:39
Sb: #7684-#OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,

Me, act as a clearing house. I think that those kind of details could be
addressed later. What we need now is discussion especially from developers on
what is needed. We must maintain compatibility between machines so developers
can work to better their products rather than wasting time making the same
product work on different platforms.

As to preventing members from working on projects, nothing of the kind. That
would inhibit creativity and reduce the quality of products. I also do not
think that several GUIs would be a problem IF they were compatible. The key is
for application software to run no matter what system it's on.

As for 'rules of software' I was thinking that they would be like OS9 is. That
is things like system calls etc would do the same thing on different machines.
These would seem to only apply to GUIs and windows but other areas may apply
also.

Lets keep this discussion going and get others to put their 3 cents in.
(Inflation, you know)

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7702 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  21:14:28
Sb: #7700-#OSK Software
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

First impression is, I like it. I thik it would be beneficial to the entire OS9
community, vendors/developers/users all. Will get back to you with more
specific thoughts after I have had time to consider it fully.

Zack

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7706 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  21:57:48
Sb: #7702-#OSK Software
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

I'm not sure what would happen...the consortium, in some ways, is reminiscent
of the Prisoner's Dilemma, the "conspire" option being replaced with "promote
the development of OS-9/68000 software" and the "betray" option being replaced
with "don't actively promote etc."  The temptation to coast, let the other guy
spend his resources on something that, by the terms of the consortium, would
benefit you, would always be present.  How could it be set up to discourage
that from happening?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7727 S15/Hot Topics
    24-Oct-90  18:35:00
Sb: #7706-OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

James,

Your point is well taken. It is not my intention to have the situation you
describe. I have been in this position many times over the years suppling 68K
software that I financed for other hardware . I did not mind because I did
profit from those sales which is after all, why I am in business.

The main reason for my proposal was and is to start a discussion on the
subject. The details need to be worked out. Your input and others is what is
needed and the points raised by you need to be considered.

5 or 6 years ago I approached FoxBase about their database which at the time
ran on MSDOS and Unix. They were interested in doing a 68K port IF I gave them
lots of money and paid a hefty royalty. IF the consortium approached a company
like this the consortium would have more clout and the up front money could be
shared by the members. Their percent of the profit on sales would be
commensurate with their up front outlay. Members who did not put up the money
would not profit from the sales but they would be able to have the software
available for their machine at whatever cost the consortium decided. No one
company should or would be put in a position of unwillingly backing another
just because he was a member.

The main reason for the issue I described was to prevent needless duplication
of effort. If company A  developed program X then A could give this as part of
their hardware/software package to their customers as an incentive to buy (as
Tandy does with Deskmate). Company B would be allowed to BUY X from company A
for a reasonable amount. (The consortium would prevent abuses in these cases)
This way A would be compensated for their effort and because B would have to
PAY for X they would not have an unfair advantage.

There are many details to work out and the above may not cover all cases or be
fair as it is. However I think from this you can get the gist of what I am
trying to do. It may not be possible to do all the things outlined and some
companies may not agree with me. This is a start of the process to get everyone
to work together for the collective good and to create the greatest

#: 7728 S15/Hot Topics
    24-Oct-90  18:37:12
Sb: #7706-#OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

continued from last message.

market for OSK.

Frank

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7732 S15/Hot Topics
    24-Oct-90  19:53:38
Sb: #7728-OSK Software
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Great.  I was hoping to get replies indicating that the parties involved would
choose the "conspire" alternative (which works out best for all). Your reply is
very reassuring!

#: 7752 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Oct-90  15:40:08
Sb: #7728-#OSK Software
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

I have some ideas on this that I have been formulating for about a year and a
half now. I think you'll find them of interest, and sufficiently concrete that
you can get up and running very rapidly.

Let me know if you are interested.

Paul Interactive Media Systems, Inc.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7758 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Oct-90  17:17:51
Sb: #7752-OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

Paul,

I would find anything of interest on this subject. Why don't you post them here
so all could comment?

Frank FHL

#: 7697 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  17:34:36
Sb: #7673-#OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)


I second Frank Hogg's idea.  This is one area where we have to work together. 
I would add one other purpose, i.e., set levels of 'capability'. For lack of
capability standards, I suppose we'll have to look to the MSDOS market (I
apologize for the profanity <grin>).  The computer buyer (general public) is
somewhat familiar with the software offered there. This will take some work on
the part of the Consortium/Coalition (hereafter called 'C/C').  Defining
'capability' levels will assist the software developer target his market
better.

The life of the C/C should be limited.  It should assist in getting the largest
variety of software to the market place in as short a time as possible.  Once
this occurs, the C/C should cease operation - although it may be desirable to
continue a similar function under a 'standards' committee - perhaps the OS9
Users Group.

There may be instances where the software developer may not wish to follow the
guidelines offered.  The C/C should not (and indeed cannot) prevent this. To
differentiate between software developed this way and that under the C/C
guidelines, a 'seal' or other statement might be used.  This 'seal' would only
assure the buyer that the software will behave similarly on a variety of
platforms (and _NOT_ that it performs according to the sellers claims or is
free of bugs.)

(Continued)



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7698 S15/Hot Topics
    23-Oct-90  17:35:31
Sb: #7697-#OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)


(Continued)

I know, the theory of OS9 is that all software will run on any OS9 machine.
Tain't so!!  Two examples:

The TOP group in Munich released a lot of public domain software in two
different releases.  Some software works on almost any machine - some doesn't.
During my conversations with them, I was informed that almost no one in Europe
is having any problems.  Why?  They are using ATARI ST's as their hardware
platform.  Apparantly there are differences in the port of OS9 to the ATARI. 
And, the Atari used in Europe is different from the ATARI sold here.    (This
problem would not be too bad if we could get the source code - unfortunately,
only a limited amount of source code was released.) I never did get a
satisfactory answer when I asked whether the TOP software worked satisfactorily
on VME and Multibus systems

The second example is with my CoCo3.  I while back, I had a hard disk failure
and wanted to recover as much data as possible.  I immediately downloaded DeD,
an excellent disk editor.  One small problem - I don't use the CoCo keyboard or
a monitor.  I'm set up to operated from terminals only - the screen control
codes in DeD are hard coded for a CoCo Screen.

I agree with Frank - without this type of cooperation OSK is doomed to failure
in the general market place so count me in.  BTW, you'd think Microware would
push this approach but .... .

Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7785 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  20:18:19
Sb: #7698-#OSK Software
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed, What kind of things can one do in a program which make it so that it does
not work on other machines (what did the TOP group do)? Screen controls codes,
etc. are one thing we have been discussing here and there seems to be a bit of
an agreement that termcap() will solve most of the problems (I don't, but
that's another thread).

Re: Microware. Yes, I agree that they should support this. Perhaps if a member
of the group approached them? Actually, they should be doing this type of thing
all on there on as a matter of self-interest.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7794 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  09:45:05
Sb: #7785-#OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,

I don't know what the specific problems are with the TOP programs.  As I said,
some work just fine - others don't (and of course, those are the ones for which
we don't have source code).  It may be as simple as files missing or in the
wrong place - it may be that the version of 'cio' they're using is different -
and it may be ???.  The most common errors I remember are 208 - illegal service
request, 216 - pathname not found and 227 - illegal trap code.  There may've
been some other errors, but I don't remember them. One user, on a 68030 system,
can't change users' passwords - otherwise the mmon, logon, password, etc.
programs work fine for him.  (That suite of programs works just fine for me.) 
Another user on this forum (I think it's Mark Wuest) reported some other
problems (I don't remember the details). I've sent messages and called them
(TOP) regarding these problems - the answer has always been that they will look
into them when they have time. So, I'm not really of much help to you.  (We do
have to understand TOP's problem, they've contributed over 30 MBytes of code
that I know of to the public domain and supporting that much code is a lot of
work.  They have to eat, too.)

(Continued)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7795 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  09:46:06
Sb: #7794-#OSK Software
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)


(Continued)

Another example of compatibility problems deals with MW releases.  When version
2.3 was released, I did not install the entire package at one time. I was
running a hybrid - parts were 2.2 and parts were 2.3.  According to MW, this is
OK.  (Jame Jones - please confirm.)  I went to make a new directory using
relative pathnames (.../dir/dir etc) - chd'd to it - it wasn't there.  Tried it
again - got an error - this directory already existed.  Repeated the process
using an absolute path name - everything OK.  I was busy and didn't have time
to check into it and frankly, forgot about it.  A couple of days later, I was
doing some clean-up work and went to dsave a directory elsewhere - dsave
crashed.  Same problem as I had earlier.  To make a long story short, it turned
out that the different versions of 'makdir' and 'cio' are not compatible (I
didn't know 'makdir' used 'cio' - didn't even think about it - turns out that
lots of programs use 'cio' - it is a math trap handler module).  When I went
completely to 2.3 everything was OK.  Sequel - I later found the missing
directories - they were located in the CMDS directory!

Regarding possible compatibility problems, I think that's what Frank Hogg had
in mind when he suggested forming the informal consortium.  BTW, have you
joined?

Ed Gresick  DELMAR CO

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7802 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  16:06:14
Sb: #7795-OSK Software
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

You ran into a problem with a bug fix that influenced the behavior of a
function in cio; making it behave as documented tripped up code that counted on
the erroneous behavior.  I'd have to go back and look at release notes for
details.

#: 7902 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:01:13
Sb: #7795-OSK Software
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

> BTW, have you joined? Nope, not yet. Where do I sign up <grin>.

Your comments on missing files, etc. are important to developers. We really
should decide on standard directories for init files, etc. With multi-user
systems it is a bit more complex since different users might need different
files/directories. It is not as simple as assuming that everyone has a
"/dd/sys" where all these kinds of files can reside.

Another thing we might look at is assigning new SVCs, port addresses additional
getstt/putstt constants. For example, I'd hate to see 6 different values for a
ss.screensize option--a program can handle things if the 'standard call' is not
supported, but if it returns garbage values then things can really fry. And
since MW did not bless us with an over-abundance (at least according to the
manuals, I've not looked at the defs files) of get/setstts I see all kinds of
new things developing, especially in the graphics departments.

BTW, is anyone keeping track of all these ideas?

#: 7906 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:42:54
Sb: #7785-#OSK Software
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

These are just rambling thoughts... not really about the consortium, altho the
obvious thrust of everyone's messages is about _display_ compatability for
programs (personal input devices are a far lesser worry).

In Europe, people use the Cumana OS9/ST port, which is said to include some
windowing functions, MIDI driver, etc.  The console terminal stuff alone can
mean non-portable programs.

I don't think coco programmers have bad habits... if anything, they adhere more
than many others to device independence.  BUT true, not in escape code
independence, which is a different (and yes, important) subpart.

 (Sidenote: There's a beta OSK version of dEd which uses termcaps.)
 (Side question: is it time to assume that all terminals will be gfx capable?)

Altho it may be happening again (brought on by CD-I and new computers), I think
it's been about seven years since MW had real interest (read: time to invest)
in the personal usage of OS9.  Because their main market was in the controller
field, they had no impetus to come up with or enforce UI standards. Each OS9
system installed was by definition a custom system, with its own custom drivers
and program interfacing.

(Sidenote2: I'm beginning to have a very strong feeling against wide use of
xxStat calls... they don't work across either network or serial connections.)

Jumping topics again (there's way too much to cover): enduser views are also a
totally different subject.  Obviously, easy-to-use programs can and should be
written... but that's true of any system.   However I will note that leaving
all UI standards to programmers would be a mistake.  We learn this truth best
from the Amiga, which tried that for 5 years... yet now CBM is trying to
enforce more standardization.  Easy to see why: compare Mac programs to Amiga
programs.  The difference to the end user is super apparent.
  <cont'd in reply>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7907 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:43:27
Sb: #7906-#OSK Software
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

<cont'd>

The real kinship of Unix and OS9 is in the variety of hardware installations.
Fairly closed systems such as those on the Amiga and Mac and PCs, had one great
advantage: knowing what the hardware is going to be like.  Even on the CoCo,
programmers could assume certain screen types, for instance.  To some extent
this is changing (Windows 3.0, color Macs)... but notice that figuring out
solutions is taking _enormous_ programmer resources at those companies.

And as I noted on Bitnet lately, solutions in the Unix world are highly geared
towards the C user _only_.  Their libraries hide a lot of gory details. Jumping
subjects for a second, Mac programs also hide many details (from the user), and
so are complex.  Ever hear of a casual Mac user writing a windowing program,
such as Coco users often do?   Jump again: Microsoft says that an "experienced
C programmer (with MS Driver Course diploma) averages 4-6 months to write his
first OS/2 device driver." (!)

X programs are still rare too... the learning curve is huge, and unless
Desqview/X changes things, the overwhelming majority of X apps will continue
(as now) to be developed for "in house" use only by major companies.

Okay, now let's get to the real key point:  what makes any OS really unique? 
Multitasking? No, that can be emulated or done by others. Visually fancy
programs?  Nah.  Easy to use programs?  Nope.  Choice of runnable hardware? 
Not really.  Modularity?  Not unique nowadays.

So why use OS9?  What is the key attraction of OS9? (And by close extension,
the CORE which we must somehow continue to provide in any display solution?) In
other words, why do people stick with OS9?

=> To me, the key to OS9's uniqueness was and is, that it's relatively simple
to learn, understand and program for... from _any_ language.  How to accomodate
this main precept should be one of the focii of discussion.  Ideas?  Termcap
libraries for all languages (Basic, C, asm, Pascal, shell scripts?!), for
instance?  Or am I all wet? <could be!>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7926 S15/Hot Topics
    31-Oct-90  20:42:16
Sb: #7907-OSK Software
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

Good points in your messages. Yes, GetStts can be a problem. But if my idea of
device driver/descriptors would work, they too can be handled.

Hey, I even have a name from my crazy scheme--"remote windows". I've been doing
some more thinking about this, and it really should work. Again, the idea is to
have a driver which would translate between the computers native screen i/o
codes and that of a remote. The descriptor would have translation tables for
both keyboard and screen codes. Not thinking here...but I suppose it could also
fudge get/sutstt calls too.

For now, I see no problem with simply ignoring incompatible codes. If you are
running a gfx program and the terminal doesn't have gfx, then that is YOU
problem. Even though it might be expensive, the remote window driver could even
support windows, etc. Just a matter of keeping virtual screens in memory and
doing updates at the proper time.

I sort of see this as an evolving thing. Hopefully, it could be set up in an
expandable format. Another thought--quite a few people might want to use old
CoCos as terminals with the new computers. Be nice to have some compatiblity
there.

#: 7855 S15/Hot Topics
    28-Oct-90  18:15:01
Sb: #7673-#OSK Software
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank:

I like the idea of the C/C.  Seems to me that it would be in everyone's best
interest to have some two way communication with Microware so that we don't set
up a 'standard' only to have Microware release some new product that would
supercede the user developed standard.

I'd like to see a standard created for a means of associating a hardware port
with with the type of terminal attached.  For example, say I have a Televideo
925 on port /t1 and a DEC VT-100 on port /t2 and I normally log on to port
 /t1.  In my ".login" file I set the environment variable TERM to 925.
Microware's mail & uMacs now work great.  My terminal is being used by someone
so I go and log on to the VT-100 on /t2, my TERM environment variable is still
(incorrectly) set to the 925 and any software that uses the TERM environment
variable doesn't work so well any more.  The termcap method seems to assume
that a shop has only one make and model of terminal and/or that a user only
logs on to one terminal and/or that you wouldn't have two people working in the
same directory on different types of terminals.  On my system at work I have
THREE different sets of terminal definition files for three different software
packages (Quick ED, Sculptor, and Mail).  What a waste of disk space and
effort!  A standard file in a standard place with the association between ports
and terminal types would be a big help.

I wrote Microware a letter about this but they never bothered to answer.

-J

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7908 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:47:11
Sb: #7855-OSK Software
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Jay,

The only thing that will force any company to follow a standard is to have one
well defined and used by many of their customers. I also agree with your
comments about the environment being set for TERM based on who logs in. The
TERM should be attached to the device while '.login' should be associated with
your password file OR something along those lines. Obviously the way it is done
now is not right. Rather than only identify the problem we should try to offer
a solution. This is one area where the C/C could be useful.

Frank



#: 7916 S15/Hot Topics
    30-Oct-90  15:25:26
Sb: #7855-OSK Software
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Jay,
 Of course, the TERM<->PORT relation would have to be optional, as my system is
on a network where people log in with about 6 different terminal types. Since
we don't all always log in from the same spot, most of our terminals end up
with two programmed keys: "setenv TERM xxxx" and "TERM=xxxx;export TERM" (for
Unix systems). It would be nice if terminal manufacturers would come up with a
standard (egads! there's that word again!) for querying terminals that they
could all agree with and stick to. I ain't holding MY breath!
 Mark

#: 7974 S15/Hot Topics
    04-Nov-90  00:43:41
Sb: #7855-OSK Software
Fm: Brett Wynkoop 72057,3720
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

~ Greeting-
    There is already a standard in the 6809 os9 for terminal type
determination.

It is the sys/ttytype file.  here is part of mine below.

 /term coco3
 /t2 vt100
 /t3 vt100
 /w1 coco3
 /w2 coco3

It goes on like that.  There is even a utility for setting the terminal type on
login.  It is called ttyset.  I think Pete did it.  A ttytype file could be
used in OSK and a utility could be written to set your env var to the termtype
at login.  Right now if you log into my system your startup files tells you
what type of term the system thinks you are on and gives you a chance to change
it then and there.  Same would work for OSK.  Not very hard at all.  Matter of
fact I would have it going now if I had my MM1 yet! Paul get the whips out and
drive the rodents faster! ;)



-Brett

uucp..........marob!davidge!wa3yre!wynkoop



#: 7674 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  20:15:54
Sb: #7564-#Visit
Fm: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Unfortunately, events conspired to take me to Wilmington the day after I
arrived in Raleigh.

Was your intent for me to bug Kevin Darling or do you have an office in town?

Hugo

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7679 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    22-Oct-90  21:02:50
Sb: #7674-Visit
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Hugo Bueno 71211,3662 (X)

Hugo,

No, we don't have an office in Raleigh. We have an office in Davidson and in
DC.

Paul

#: 7677 S15/Hot Topics
    22-Oct-90  20:57:17
Sb: #7589-Fest
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

you bet I hve customers waiting!

Not to mention ME! Every time we get together a developer's system, it sits on
my desk for a few hours, then zips away.... Talk about temptation. There is the
story of the King Tantalus...

FCC is going great guns, by the way, and they were impressed with the care that
we took with the inclusion of RF suppressing ferite beads in the design, the
choice of case, -- essentially, there was only one thing that hand to be
changed, and that was easy.

Now it goes through a perfunctory test, then on to the Paperwork Jungle in DC.
You know how that is, my friend!

Once FCC Class B is in, the wait will be over, and we start shipping out to our
wonderful, patient, marvelous customers.

Paul

#: 7815 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  21:41:47
Sb: #7506-#Fest
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank, let me jump in on this public forum to say that now I am confused as to
what I did or did not see at your booth. I saw the non-functional TC-09
prototype board (same as April Fest, it seemed) and a likewise non-working
TC-70 board.  By non-working I mean it wasn't plugged in and running, maybe it
was workable. I think it's good of you to have these boards out where folks can
see and touch them, BTW -- in a working MM/1, you can't even see the main board
very well.

And you had the big K-Bus system running in a cabinet.  Great to watch, but
since I saw no grafix on it, just text, I assumed it was one of your Hazelwood
68000 or 68020 cards in there, not a TC-70. "Assumed" since like you said, your
booth was mobbed most of the time.

Now if that was a TC-70 running in that cabinet, I apologize for my own
impression that there was no TC hardware running at the Fest. I'm not one of
the folks who reported such to Paul, but that's what I thought.  Was that a
TC70?  --mike k

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7911 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:49:09
Sb: #7815-#Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Mike,

There seems to be confusion about what a Tomcat is and that also seems to
confuse those who read my message to Paul the other day. Please refer to my
current ads in Rainbow for the last months where I tried to clarify this very
issue. The problem lies in the ability for the Tomcat to be more than one thing
while also being different things. It can be a TC9 or a TC70 or also any K-Bus
based computer we make or all of them. When we decided to come out with the
Tomcat as a product we decided to include ALL computers based on the K-Bus. The
TC9, TC70 and all the other K-Bus boards can be assembled in a bewildering
array to create various types of computers all of which fall under the heading
of TOMCAT!

Consider the Mac. What is a Mac? Mac is the name of the computer type like
Tomcat. A Mac SE is one model of the Mac. A TC9 is one model of the Tomcat.
Unlike the Mac the Tomcat can be more than one computer at the SAME TIME which
is where the confusion is. The Tomcat is like NO other computer in the WORLD!
There is nothing to compare it too. The Tomcat defies description because of
its flexibility and that is my main marketing problem.

Sorry for your confusion, the Tomcats you saw at Atlanta were not running
either a TC9 or TC70. They were running a 16Mhz 68000 and a 10Mhz 68000 with
terminals. Both had 2 meg RAM, 40 Meg hard drives etc. The speed tests that
Kevin Pease ran were on the 16 Mhz Tomcat. The TC70 at the show was a working
prototype but because the OSK port was not finished we did not run it. The TC9
was a display prototype. Both were there to show that they were indeed real.
The TC9 was a completely different prototype from the one at Chicago. This one
is the preproduction model that will go in production in a few weeks. The TC70
is IN production now although there are still some small software details to be
done.

BTW have you gotten your MM1? I couldn't help but notice your many positive
comments about it here on the forum and your eager anticipation on getting it.
I am sure that it will live up to your expectations. The running demos on it at
the show were impressive.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7912 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:51:10
Sb: #7911-Fest
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317

(continued from last message)

Please join the software group here so that you will be assured that any
products you create will run on ALL the OSK machines out there. Both in place
for years and the new ones.

Best of luck

Frank

#: 7814 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  21:15:23
Sb: #7420-Fest
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

Paul, Mary Kay was a very positive presence at your booth -greeted me very
warmly when I wandered up. If she sells enuf to buy a Cadillac, will you give
her a Pink MM/1?  First time she's heard that joke today? --mike k

#: 7689 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    23-Oct-90  09:46:04
Sb: #7616-#New Vendor's Section
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

ok i have a question. Does this section apply to an author who has a product
distributed by another vendor? I am the author of APBBS and it is currently
being sold through Second City Software. an MM/1 version of APBBS is in the
works.

Mike



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7712 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    24-Oct-90  00:23:34
Sb: #7689-#New Vendor's Section
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 (X)

Mike,

If you're doing direct customer sales and support, then there's no problem.

If you're not doing either, I'm not sure.  We'll need to think it through some
more.

The idea is not to keep anyone "qualified" out.  But, rather, the idea is to
make sure that the folks who are actually doing this thing as a business have
an area where they can chat, with the knowledge that it's a "qualified"
audience that's seeing their work.

Wayne

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7748 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    25-Oct-90  12:53:13
Sb: #7712-#New Vendor's Section
Fm: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

well even though Second City Software sells my product I have sold copies
myself and is allowed by our contract. I also am the supporter of the product
VIA my BBS and/or voice call from those who need help on it. (the BBS is public
but has sections for customers)


Just letting ya know what I do! (snicker) Mike

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7771 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    26-Oct-90  04:57:02
Sb: #7748-New Vendor's Section
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Mike Guzzi 76576,2715 (X)

That sounds like direct customer sales/support to me.

Thanks!

 Wayne

#: 7714 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    24-Oct-90  02:10:30
Sb: #7616-#New Vendor's Section
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

Wayne,

Request access to the new section.  I believe we meet your criterea and we will
be advertising in RAINBOW the next available issue (December, I think).

Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7738 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    24-Oct-90  22:35:58
Sb: #7714-#New Vendor's Section
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Gotcha Ed.

Wayne

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7810 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    27-Oct-90  20:46:43
Sb: #7738-#New Vendor's Section
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

Wayne, I request access on behalf of Second City Software, as the author of
UltiMusE-III, which has been advertised in The Rainbow for a year and a half. 
The only question is whether Ed Hathaway, owner of 2nd City, would pick me to
represent him or one of his other authors -- I'd have to run tath past him.  Ed
himself is not on CIS.  Ed and I live only 10 minutes apart and talk often, so
it should be OK.  I'll ask him about it, pending your approval of my admission
to Section 13.  Thanks, mike knudsen.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7823 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    28-Oct-90  00:50:23
Sb: #7810-New Vendor's Section
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Mike,

Yes, please do check with Ed, since you'd be representing his company.

Wayne

#: 7880 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    28-Oct-90  22:22:22
Sb: #7616-#New Vendor's Section
Fm: Mike Haaland 72300,1433
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

I too, would like access to the 'Vender's Section'.  As I am Owner/Operator of
Hyper-Tech Software, Author of MVCanvas for the CoCo, and am a developer for
both OS-9/6809 and OS-9/68000.

Thanks,

Mike Haaland

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7896 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    29-Oct-90  17:53:18
Sb: #7880-New Vendor's Section
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Mike Haaland 72300,1433 (X)

Gotcha Mike!

 Wayne

#: 7690 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Oct-90  12:18:56
Sb: #need help on C program
Fm: MAS 76336,3226
To: sysop (X)

Hi there,

        I am porting a Unix C program onto a os-9/68000 machine, and I have
some problems in porting some terminal functions. How can I disable echoing on
the scre screen? (like when accepting a password), and how to issue a clear
screen command ( on a vt100) terminal.

Thanks a lot.

Robert CHEN.

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7691 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Oct-90  13:59:56
Sb: #7690-need help on C program
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

Robert -

You would do the OS9 equivalent of an IOCTL... a GETSTAT or SETSTAT. There are
C functions in the library to do this. You want '_gs_opt()'.

Use a getstat of _gs_opt to capture a copy of the path options. In fact, you
should keep two copies. Toggle the ECHO flag in the path options (see your tech
reference manual for structure of the path options.. or see sgbuf.h or sgtty.h)
and then turn around and send it back to that open path. When done, send the
virgin copy of the options buffer (or just toggle the ECHO flag back on).

Pete

#: 7692 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Oct-90  14:42:59
Sb: #7690-need help on C program
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

Robert,
 If you download the Stevie source code, you will see sample code to do exactly
what you want. Just grep for the "_gs_opt()" and _ss_opt() functions Pete
referred to. Luck
 Mark

#: 7694 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Oct-90  14:54:53
Sb: #7690-need help on C program
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

Robert,
 As far as issuing commands to a specific terminal, you really need to study
the entire section on the termcap library in the back of the Microware manuals
and use those to do it. This will keep you from creating code that only works
on one type of terminal. STevie also has sample code for this. If you need help
understanding termcap (I did), just holler.
 Mark

#: 7703 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Oct-90  21:32:13
Sb: WD & HD Problems
Fm: Mike Stephenson 71655,415
To: Bruce Isted 76625,2273

 Bruce;
 
 In case you don't have 'email waiting' enabled, I left you
 some email about a problem I'm having with my HD.
 
 Thanks
 Mike

#: 7705 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Oct-90  21:54:17
Sb: #Smartwatch on COCO 3 LII
Fm: joe novosel 76220,1270
To: all

Has anyone intefaced a smartwatch or other slotless clock to the COCO 3 Level 2
os/9 system? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Joe Novosel

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7707 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Oct-90  22:00:13
Sb: #7705-#Smartwatch on COCO 3 LII
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: joe novosel 76220,1270 (X)

If I remember rightly, there is indeed a clock module for use with the
smartwatch.  I think the folks who sell it have one, and I'm embarrassed to say
that even though I talked to a fellow at Atlanta CoCoFest about it, I don't
remember his name.  Check the ads in RAINBOW; I'm pretty sure it's there.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7724 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    24-Oct-90  10:10:20
Sb: #7707-Smartwatch on COCO 3 LII
Fm: joe novosel 76220,1270
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

Thanks, I'll look there. Joe Novosel 76220,1270

#: 7764 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Oct-90  18:34:10
Sb: #7705-#Smartwatch on COCO 3 LII
Fm: John R. Wainwright 72517,676
To: joe novosel 76220,1270 (X)

Joe,
        Lots of poeple have done it, including me.  My "Smartwatch" is plugged
into the ROM socket in my "xt"-type hard disk controller, right UNDER the
(Burke & Burke) XT-ROM.  The only thing I have to touch to boot up is the
button on a power strip. BTW, I got                     the driver for the
clock chip from the LIBs here If you get one from one of the regular COCO
suppliers, I'm sure you get the software with it.  I originally bought mine
from R.S. to put into an XT-Clone.
                                  JohnW

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7767 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Oct-90  21:13:08
Sb: #7764-Smartwatch on COCO 3 LII
Fm: joe novosel 76220,1270
To: John R. Wainwright 72517,676 (X)

Thanks, this is really what I am looking for!! Joe Novosel



#: 7708 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    23-Oct-90  22:06:33
Sb: #7513-#Atari Tape backup
Fm: David George 72240,134
To: Carl Kreider 71076,76 (X)

You said that I need a driver, but also said that "several people use these 
on their ST's".  Does using the Archive 5954C with the Adaptec 3530 require
a special driver?  If so do you know what they (the other people) are using
for drivers on their ST's?

David

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7719 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    24-Oct-90  07:51:13
Sb: #7708-#Atari Tape backup
Fm: Carl Kreider 71076,76
To: David George 72240,134 (X)

I don't know about ICD, but BMS has software for TOS for their adapter. A
driver xists for Minix too.  For OSK, you have to write your own or find
someone who has.  My comment about others using the Archive/Adaptec combination
refered to the feasibility of hooking them up.  Those folks are running other
operating systems than OSK.  Writing an OSK driver is still on my list, but I
really don't know when I will get to it.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7904 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    29-Oct-90  21:36:53
Sb: #7719-Atari Tape backup
Fm: David George 72240,134
To: Carl Kreider 71076,76

OH OK.
Thanks for the info.  I talked to Microware and they said they offer
a SCSI Tape package.  The tape support that does come with the Atari
is for the Ciprico Tapemaster 3000.

#: 7711 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    23-Oct-90  22:51:11
Sb: #database
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: all

Still waiting for a good data base! Any luck?



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7781 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Oct-90  16:57:34
Sb: #7711-database
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

Keith Alphonso of Alpha Software Technologies is announcing a new new database
called Data Windows.  AST's number is (504) 649-5176.  The new product is going
for $59.95.  The list of features and functions is pretty impressive, but I've
just seen the flyer, haven't seen it in action.


Lee



#: 7715 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    24-Oct-90  03:06:31
Sb: #Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin, I was wondering... I have the DISTO HD interface, and have been using it
on my BBS for about a year and have been very satisfied. I just bought the
Super Controller II, so that I can have no-halt floppy disk access. Now how
about no-halt Hard Disk access? Are there drivers for the HD interface for no
halt other than the one in Library 10 which  requires no multipak, because I do
use my multipak with an RS-232. Are there any other solutions with the hardware
I have?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7725 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    24-Oct-90  11:22:50
Sb: #7715-Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: John Wight 76370,2100 (X)

John - I coulda sworn that there's another HD driver floating around which does
work okay in the MPI (and which does more sleeps for smoothness). I was working
on one myself over a year ago, but lightning hit the Rodime I used on the Disto
interface, and I never got a chance to test it out...

lemme see if I can dig it up.  I lost track of it for a long while.

#: 7766 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Oct-90  21:08:53
Sb: #7715-#Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: Ted Miller 76545,457
To: John Wight 76370,2100 (X)

Hello John;

There is a new no halt device driver for the Disto hard disk interface. Its in
the form of an Ipatch file. I found it in the Delphi Os9 forum but I don't know
whether its here. I've had it installed on my system for about a month now with
no problems . If you don't have a Delphi account I'll see if I can upload it
here.

Ted Miller

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7817 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Oct-90  22:26:37
Sb: #7766-#Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X)

No, I don't have a Delphi account -- yet. If you could upload it here, it would
sure be appreciated. Thanks



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7847 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Oct-90  16:37:12
Sb: #7817-#Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: Ted Miller 76545,457
To: John Wight 76370,2100 (X)


t`sHello John;

Before I go any further in getting permisssion to upload from the author, do
you need the sasi or the scso version? I only have the sasi version. If you
want to go ahead and try to get a scsi version yourself, if thats what you
need, its written by Ken Scales and named cchdscsi.ar

Ted Miller

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7927 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    31-Oct-90  23:21:30
Sb: #7847-Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: Ted Miller 76545,457 (X)

The drive and controller I use is MFM type.

#: 7913 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  23:59:47
Sb: #7817-#Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: Ken Scales 74646,2237
To: John Wight 76370,2100 (X)

John -

Ted Miller contacted me over on "the other service", and I uploaded both of the
patch files for the Disto SASI and SCSI drivers on Monday night. Should be
available to you for downloading from DL10 (CoCo) soon.

Good luck... / Ken.

PS -- A note on compatibility:  Both patches have been "soaking" online on
Delphi for a few months.  The only reported problem with these versions has
come from 2 users with Seagate ST125N (SCSI) drives -- in some cases, the very
first drive access fails. (All subsequent accesses are successful).  Both
drives had the same problem with the UNpatched driver; e.g. Paul reported 90%
first-access failures without the patch, and is still having about 10% failures
with the patch applied; Jim reports no change in this area.  Otherwise, folks
seem to be happy.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7928 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    31-Oct-90  23:23:13
Sb: #7913-Disto HD and no halt?
Fm: John Wight 76370,2100
To: Ken Scales 74646,2237 (X)

Thanks for the info and uploads. However I use an MFM type drive and
controller, which I assume isn't compatible with SASI or SCSI.

#: 7720 S15/Hot Topics
    24-Oct-90  08:25:47
Sb: #7595-Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Steve,

Ha!

Paul <grin>

#: 7721 S15/Hot Topics
    24-Oct-90  08:35:41
Sb: #7603-#Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)

Colin,

Well, OK, a report of what was goin on in our OWN booth!

First, we were right next to the guys from Detroit who do Lyra, so we had
musical accompaniment -- and we were right across from the CoCo Pro! booth,
where frequent PA announcements were being made -- made us all feel at home!
All we missed were Lonnie's sales ladies and his fancy wardrobe! <grin>

It was especially nice to see Cray Augsburg and Greg Law, also of Rainbow fame.

At our booth we have five MM/1's (actually we had four later as one went up to
someone's room for something) showing a lot of Mike Haaland's and Kevin
Darling's demos, as well as a slide show viewer for the M/1 by Kevin Pease, our
hardworking hardware designer. The slide show viewer runs from a simple script
file and shows a bunch of GIF images that have been moved to the IFF format,
which IMS believes is the Way To Go for a great deal of work (it is the CD-I
standard, and is used by Amigas and by HUGE software firms like Electronic Arts
-- also, it is the standard accepted by the ANSI Hypermedia committee that IMS
is part of).

Mike Haaland had his version of Tetrix running, and the CoCo Maze program,
screaming by in random colors. There were severalother graphics demos from Mike
that were showing off the library support he has built up from Kevin's drivers.

Also, Kevin showed some Amiga demos he had downloaded and modified for the
MM/1, including an Imperial Walker from Star Wars, firing lasers, Star Trek,
The Next Generation's Enterprise going into hyperspeed in a flash, while the
them song played (and played and played, in beautiful Ives-esque antiphony to
our booth next door) ...



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7722 S15/Hot Topics
    24-Oct-90  08:48:11
Sb: #7721-Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

..

and there was my personal favorite, Dave Letterman, in an animated sequence,
throwing a wad of paper at the monitor.

Kevin worked very hard on these demos -- thanks! It should be noted, too, that
one of the demos shown EATS UP an Amiga, but runs nicely on ours and allows you
to flip to another window and do some other work.

We also had a database and wordprocessor there, but, strangely, no one asked
about them ... <grin>.

We had some press releases to hand out (we'll get thos posted here!) and sold T
shirts and other things. Zack Sessions helped us out by selling some of our Bob
van der Poel stock, which sold nicely (as did Zack's OS9 games). Incidentally,
one of the demos was Pyramid Solitaire, by Zack, ported by Mike Haaland in
about a day and a half.

Computers were there for preorders, but not for sale, pending FCC Class B
approval, something IMS feels very strongly about, and I think our customers
appreciate it when we say that, for OSK to become mainstream on the MM/1, the
MM/1 has to compete with the big boys, FCC approval and all.

We also put little orange stickers on the lapels of folks who came by and
really liked the MM/1. By the end of Saturday, just about everyone had a
sticker (only some vendors were without, because they had not come over,
especially some folks selling RS-DOS stuff. i am not sure they understood where
all the OS9 interest had come from!

Some people even had several orange stickers.

We had a great time, and BOY, it was tiring -- and exhilirating.

Excellent response.

The next day after the Fest, we had lunch at the Coca Cola headquarters,
courtesy of Newton White, a Fest organizer. Then we hopped over to Georgia Tech
to a fest that included Macs and PS/2s, getting information and insight into
what students want. One popular PS/2 demo was a game of -- get this -- Pyramid
Solitaire. The Windows 3.0 demo seemed dead in comparison. There was also a
MIDI demo on the PS/2.

That's all for now!


The original prototype of the MM/1 went along for some demos. Signetics

#: 7740 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Oct-90  00:57:38
Sb: #7721-#Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004 (X)

Gee...do your best to accomodate someone, and they compare you to someone
wearing Italian shoes <grin>!
   Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7751 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Oct-90  15:37:04
Sb: #7740-#Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Dave Myers 71750,210 (X)

Ha!

Well, you did a fantastic job, Dave. I just couldn't resist noting the FAMILIAR
elements of the fest that made it a delight, and well (sniff) nostalgic!

<bigger grin!>

Paul Interactive Media Systems, Inc.



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7769 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  01:35:47
Sb: #7751-Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

<heehee> next year, we can add even MORE "familiar features"...lessee, bump the
booth cost, add a stuffed animal....yeah, THAT's the ticket! <grin>
   Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products

#: 7773 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  06:05:18
Sb: #7751-Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

Sounds great, Paul!  Wish I could have been there.  Maybe I could have snuck
one out under my shirt or something!  :)

  --Colin

#: 7777 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  09:51:38
Sb: #7603-#Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)


Hi Colin!

Reporting on our booth ...

We displayed five operating production SYSTEM IV machines, one of which was
installed in a tower case to accomodate additional drives.  Three machines were
running a slide show demonstrating the VGA graphics capabilty of the SYSTEM IV.
In addition to a wide variety of pictures, a pc board layout and a schematic
diagram were displayed with amazing detail and clarity.  The reaction by the
attendees to the SYSTEM IV and especially the VGA graphics was very rewarding. 
Many commented that the graphics displayed were the best at the show.

The machine in the tower case was used to demonstrate various application
programs including my Point-of-Sale System written in SCULPTOR.  We were able
to compare how they performed on a VGA monitor vs normal terminals (Wyse 60,
Wyse 30 and a Tandy DT100).

We were showing a public domain 'windows' program from the TOP Munich group in
Germany.  This program not only allows windows on the VGA screen but you can
have windows on terminals hooked up to the serial ports.  And, flipping between
windows was fast - as fast as the terminals could write their screens.  And
when flipping windows on the VGA screen, the rewrite was virtually
instantaneous!

The remaining machine was used to demonstrate an alternate operating system
written by Dan Farnsworth called MONK (an excellent single-user operating
system similar to FLEX but with improvements).  Dan has written some excellent
software and is writing more.  Of special interest is a program that will allow
Color Computer RS-DOS programs to run on the SYSTEM IV.  Dan has more work to
do to finish it.

(Continued)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7778 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  09:52:27
Sb: #7777-#Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)


(Continued)

No special procedures were necessary to boot MONK.  Place the MONK boot disk in
the floppy drive and hit the RESET button.  A menu appears allowing the user to
select the device to boot from.  Select the floppy drive and MONK is up and
running.  If desired, the boot file can be placed on the hard drive and the
hard drive can be selected for boot.  The menu includes an option to set which
device to autoboot from.  BTW, the SYSTEM IV will allow installing most any
operating system capable of being run on a 68000.

Peripheral Technology (co-exhibitor and manufacturer of the SYSTEM IV) was
selling K4 boards and kits.  The 16 MHz high-performance K4 board is the heart
of the SYSTEM IV.  Based upon the Motorola 68000 microprocessor, this XT size
system board is jam-packed with features such as 4 serial and 2 parallel ports,
battery-backed up clock, on-board floppy disk controller supporting high
density drives and 7 PC/XT expansion slots.  The K4 is IBM PC/XT hardware
compatible - meaning you can use top-notch, low-cost peripherals available from
your local computer store!  Up to 4 MBytes of RAM on the mother board with an
additional 8 MBytes available on an optional expansion board should more than
satisfy the needs of the most memory-hungry user.

One of the highlights of the show for us, was when Kevin Pease came over to our
booth and asked if he could run his 'DRYSTONE' test on our machine. We agreed
and he measured the performance of the SYSTEM IV at 1666 drystones! This was
with VGA installed and running and other processes either waiting or sleeping. 
Had VGA been removed, no change in performance would have occurred. The SYSTEM
IV performance is independent of the graphics and memory installed.

(Continued)
 /ex

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7779 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  09:53:21
Sb: #7778-#Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)


(Continued)

Software - we had SCULPTOR from MPD and QUICK ED from Windsor Systems for sale
at some very good prices .  QUICK ED is one of the most powerful
editor/formatters I have worked with - and it is fairly easy to use. Its
document formatting capabilities are awesome.  QUICK ED is also available for
MS-DOS.  (If graphic capabilities were added to QUICK ED, it would make a great
desk top publishing system.)  I think most everyone is familar with SCULPTOR -
don't need to say more here.

We also had some OSK productivity tools from Windsor Systems for sale:
       IMP - an Intelligent Make Program, far superior to MW's Make program.
       FLEXELINT - A lint program and a must for serious C programmers.
       DISAM_OS9 - A high-speed, three-pass 680x0 disassembler.
       WINDOWS - C Source Code Windowing Library.
       PROFILE - Designed to profile user-state programs.
       PAN UTILITIES - 40 useful utilities supplied in a C Source Code package.
       DISK CACHING - A high speed disk caching system - won't work on all
          systems, but when it does, can speed things up a great deal.
          Expensive - but a free demo is available to try on your machine.
       PC9 - MSDOS to OS-9 Windowing System.

Full details of the SYSTEM IV are in DL15 - 'SYS.TXT' or contact me directly.
For other information, contact me directly.  Overall I was very satisfied at
the reception we received from the show attendees.  BTW - all orders we
received at the show have been shipped.

Thanks for your interest.

 Ed Gresick
 DELMAR CO

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7816 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  22:20:05
Sb: #7779-Atlanta Fest?
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed, I was impressed by the music synth program and little
debugger-disassembler. But I didn't know you had a LINT (FlexLint) for sale. I
take it this is for Microware's 680x0 C source. How much were you asking for
it?  THis is a real boon to the OSK C user! PS: I really like your machines. 
--mike k

#: 7729 S1/General Interest
    24-Oct-90  18:38:11
Sb: #message size
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: sysop (X)

Yo, what is the message size. Is it characters or lines and if so how many?

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7731 S1/General Interest
    24-Oct-90  19:51:04
Sb: #7729-message size
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Frank,

The message limit is reported to be 2547 bytes or 96 lines ...which ever comes
first.

This generally means thirty, 80 character lines.

Hope this helps with some of the message uploads.

Steve

#: 7730 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    24-Oct-90  18:39:00
Sb: #section 13
Fm: Frank Hogg 70310,317
To: [F] 76703,376 (X)

I would like to be part of section 13.

Thank You Frank Hogg

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7739 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    24-Oct-90  22:36:28
Sb: #7730-#section 13
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Frank Hogg 70310,317 (X)

Gotcha, Frank.

Wayne

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7753 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    25-Oct-90  15:41:46
Sb: #7739-#section 13
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

I would like to be a part of the new section, Wayne. Thanks for a great idea!

Paul Interactive Media Systems, Inc.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7772 S13/OS9/OSK Vendors
    26-Oct-90  04:57:30
Sb: #7753-section 13
Fm: Wayne Day 76703,376
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

Gotcha, Paul!

Wayne

#: 7735 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    24-Oct-90  21:34:40
Sb: #Learning the hard way
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To:  73477,2004 (X)

Paul! TUT-TUT do I detect another direct mention of a competitor's product by
name (MAC and AMIGA) in some recent msgs of yours? Good thing for you those
guys dont sign on here or you'd have the REALLY BIG boys on your case! <greg
morse>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7750 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Oct-90  15:35:07
Sb: #7735-#Learning the hard way
Fm: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg,

Are you serious? Are you saying that we can't continue comparing the benefits
of OSK to AmigaDOS or MacOS, as we always have?

This is an interesting twist on the idea that our comments as vendors be polite
to our competitors -- the "politesse" needs now to be extended to every
computer manufacturer! Wow!

I think maybe this is a SIGN. OSK is on the way to playing in the Big Ball
Park.

Then again, maybe not. Depends on the hard work we do here!

What do you think, Greg?

Paul Interactive Media Systems, Inc.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7760 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    25-Oct-90  18:03:16
Sb: #7750-Learning the hard way
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

I think Greg was playing with your head <grin>.  But maybe not.

#: 7844 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  16:21:17
Sb: #7750-Learning the hard way
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: Paul K. Ward 73477,2004

All I'm saying Paul is that of course any mfg can tout the benefits of his
products, such as multi-tasking or pic or response time. Users can usually get
away with saying things like my X eats your Y for lunch. Presidents of
companies have to be more careful! "Negative campaigning" is a two edged sword
that can backfire unless you are 100% certain of your facts and they are stated
as facts not opinions. anyway I'm out of mydepth here so that's the last i'll
say on the subject! <greg>

#: 7736 S1/General Interest
    24-Oct-90  21:43:09
Sb: #DDJ article
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: dave betz, 73477,2004 (X)

Dave - re OS9 articles for DDJ. Some ideas come to mind see the recent issue of
MW PIPELINES where Pete Dibble writes about porting from UNIX to OSK. There are
some themes there you could expand on, especially about memory usage and error
checking. 2nd idea ould be about memory management. because os9 and all its
pgms are PIC it makes memory management almost trivial. see osk where you do
not even need an MMU  (OSK is only the equivalent of OS9 level I last I heard)
and for OS9/6809 users the MMU is fairly trivial yet much more powerful than
the approach one gets with M/PM for example. If you want actual code you might
look at IAPL of mine and what PIC and re-entrancy imply and how to write
applications that use that. Along the same lines a discussion of how MW C
compiler handles initializers in PIC code might be instructive. Finally if you
want to get into device drivers see the source for DART (of mine) in non-coco
os9 section here. As well as being nicely commneted it shows how to write a
re-entrant driver when the hardware (2681 UART) is not re-entrant and has some
shared write-only registers. Happy to collaborate on an article if my name goes
in the by-line ;-) ! (Iwrote one for byte some time ago). good luck. <greg
morse>

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7741 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  01:13:08
Sb: #7736-DDJ article
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Greg - outstanding idea on the unix->os9 article!   I bet Pete and Carl and a
buncha others here would have ideas on that subject.  Sounds just what a mag
like DDJ could get into, too.

#: 7747 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  07:39:32
Sb: #7736-#DDJ article
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451 (X)

Thanks for your comments.  Where would I get a copy of MW PIPELINES?  Is this a
publication of MicroWare?  Also, is IAPL source available?  I'll check in the
DL's after I post this message.  The idea of an article that discusses the
issues involved in porting UNIX stuff to OS-9 would be interesting.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7759 S1/General Interest
    25-Oct-90  18:02:00
Sb: #7747-DDJ article
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Dave - GO MSC and you can find the online Pipelines texts.  Interesting
reading... plus Microware has tons of info on OS9 there. (mostly copies of the
literature they send out, which have good overviews).

#: 7843 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  16:17:33
Sb: #7747-#DDJ article
Fm: Greg Morse 72746,3451
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Yes - Pipelines is a sort of MW newsletter. comes out about 4 times per year or
so, with 1 tech article and the rest product and personel announcements. I'm
sure MW would be happy to give DDJ a copy! or contact Pete Dibble at MW. he's
been writing about os9 for as long as ther has been an os9. first 68 micro
journal then Rainbow etc. Source for IAPL is in the DL here. <Greg Morse>

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7867 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  19:54:40
Sb: #7843-DDJ article
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Greg Morse 72746,3451

Thanks!  I'm trying to contact Peter Dibble on BIX.  He's the moderator of the
OS-9 conference there.

#: 7746 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Oct-90  04:48:33
Sb: #Consortium
Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633
To:  70310,317 (X)



        This sounds like a wonderful Idea. I recomend that the OS9 UG
imediatley form a committe of interested parties to study the issues and
publish a recomended set of standards. If the os9 UG can't handle the task then
I recomend that we firm a new OS968k/OS9000 ug and make that a first order of
business. By the way Frank I am not an Employee of Interactive Media Services
although I have done some contract work for them and have a vested interest in
there success. However I also have a vested interest in the whole OSK comunity.
That is what motivated the MM/1 design. A graphics platform for OSK that also
runs OS9 well.I  am serious about the new UG Idea as if the current one can't
handle a standards comittee then it does not deserve to exist and should be
abandoned. Frank maybee you or Paul or Ed could head up the committe or Maybe
someone like Carl Kreider or Pete Lyall could take the position.

                Kevin Peas
                70516,1633



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7757 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Oct-90  17:16:42
Sb: #7746-#Consortium
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 (X)

Kevin,

Knowing how the UG works I doubt that they would be a good place to have study
the issues. This is after all a commercial issue where money is involved.
However I would not want to say no to any idea or input. As far as having me or
another principal head this up, that is a good question. Having someone like me
do it might cause hard feelings as I have been known to speak my mind and do
not suffer fools gladly. Someone with a good deal more patience and without
such a close financial interest would be more acceptable to all.

I think a standards committee could be considered as well. We need to continue
discussion on this.

Frank Hogg FHL

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7856 S15/Hot Topics
    28-Oct-90  18:20:22
Sb: #7757-#Consortium
Fm: Kevin Pease 70516,1633
To: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 (X)

 Sound ok we need to find someone who can headup the group who will also spend
the necessary time to do the job right. We still need a standards commitee
somwhere so that standards can be set which are best for the comunity rather
than best for anyone vendor.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7909 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  21:47:47
Sb: #7856-Consortium
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Kevin Pease 70516,1633 (X)

Kevin,

Boy I sure agree there. In most cases when standards are set that benefit only
one company they also are limited to that companies hardware, and that limits
the standards. Standards need to be flexible to be able to take advantage of
the future. This is tough because it is very hard to predict the future. The
maximum amount of input from a varied group of people will be the best
insurance for us. This is the best way, out in the open, to prevent a standard
from being limited to just one hardware platform. Right now with the TC70 and
MM1 using the same graphics it would be very easy for the standard to be
limited by that. We have to be careful to see that that doesn't happen. Most
(ALL) programmers will say that they do not let their hardware influence their
software design, but years of working with programmers has shown that not to be
the case. The more input the better. The more discussion the better.

Frank

#: 7765 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    25-Oct-90  20:26:53
Sb: #7562-#software survey
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

David  - I see that you may not keep the coco, but in the meantime here's the
files you need to read/write MSDOS disks... all in Lib 10 (except AR which is
in Lib 9 if you don't have it already):

 PCDOS.AR  - the program
 CC3DIS.AR - patchfile to create new cc3disk driver for 256/512 byte sectors
 PATCH.AR  - the patchfile installation program (ipatch)
 AR09.BIN  - the de/archive program used most around here

Be interesting to do a survey of the membership, actually... there are some
developers, quite a few engineers who use os9 at work, but mostly a lot of
hobbyists.

There are a few business types around also... that is, people using their OS9
machines with several terminals attached, as POS and inventory-control and
finance reporting stations.

OS9ers tend to like to fiddle with things, both hardware and software. They
still enjoy programming their own stuff at times, even if a commercial
application on say, their PClone or Mac, is better.  I'd sum us up as a group
of people who like to keep learning new things, on an OS which has longevity,
power, and comparative ease of getting "into"... it's small and clear enough to
understand by a human.

Maybe here's another clue: there's never been an OS9 virus for the entire
decade of its existence (knock on wood)... altho I'm sure one could be done.  I
think anyone who reached the point of being able to do one, has fallen in love
with things enough to never even think of doing such to other users.

PS: Another weird thing: OS9 users don't usually go out actively looking for
new users (altho we sure speak up if a question arises which OS9 can answer
:-)... we've learned to kind of let people find _us_, I'd guess you'd say. 
That way you get more dedicated people: the seekers, if you will. Also, as with
Forth users, "OS9" and "fanatic" seem to be mated words <grin>.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7776 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    26-Oct-90  07:32:02
Sb: #7765-software survey
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Actually, the fact that "OS9ers tend to like to fiddle with things" is one of
the things that attacted me to it.  The typical DDJ reader has always been a
fiddler (as have I).  I like to write my own programs just for the satisfaction
of knowing that I can do it and because it helps me to understand how things
work better.

#: 7768 S15/Hot Topics
    25-Oct-90  22:05:13
Sb: #Graphics
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To:  76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

Interesting thing came up today. Twas about how fast a bunch of TC9's would be
doing graphics as graphic terminals vs serial graphic terminals. The number was
4. Sooo... If you had four graphics terminals running at 38,400 baud on a 68K
system how would that compare to four TC9s running on the bus. This is assuming
that the graphics manipulation was done by the 68K that was also on the bus.

Now, as I see it you would have a 16 Mhz 680x0 doing the stuff. A terminal
would be doing 3,840 8 bit characters per second going to the terminal. A 16
Mhz 680x0 does 32000 or so 8 bit cycles per second. I know that this is not
correct and if it were it would be further divided by the cycle time of the
instructions etc. Also the fact that the terminal is doing 'some' of its
graphics processing on-board would affect things.

We can presume that the TC9s on the bus would be lots faster. But do you have a
better feel for just how much faster??

Fun things to ponder while we're waiting for Bob.

Frank

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7770 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  02:13:28
Sb: #7768-#Graphics
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317 (X)

Frank -  Yah, interesting.  But I'm confused a tiny bit :-). Is the question: 
"How would a TC9 compare to using a theoretical 38K baud gfx terminal?" 
Depends on the setup.

Setup #1 = The 680x0 is running OSK, and the TC9's are used as terminals. Since
gfx terminals would not impose a load on the 680x0 cpu (other than
interrupt-driven output, which might also be needed to talk to TC9s), then I'd
throw out the stipulation that the 68K does all the gfx manipulation. That
concept was really meant for this:

Setup #2 = One (or more) TC9 is running L-II; all are used for terminals; and
the 680x0 is dedicated to gfx manipulation.

Both setups = After thinking and rewriting answers for 20 minutes, I suddenly
realized that... the answer is impossible to give!  That is, without knowing
how fast those other 38K baud terminals _really_ are at gfx.  I mean, if they
really _can_ keep up at 38K baud and draw say, 900 circles a second (at 4
bytes/esc code), then those are very nice gfx terminals <grin!> and no way
could anyone beat their speed.  See what I mean?  Hard to compare anything
against theoretical terminals ;-).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7788 S15/Hot Topics
    26-Oct-90  21:14:26
Sb: #7770-Graphics
Fm: Frank Hogg of FHL 70310,317
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin,

Yeah, you ran into the same problems I ran into. I thought that with your
experence with graphics you might have a better guess than me. I have a Falco
5000 terminal with B&W graphics so I guess I could get some idea from tests on
that to see how fast it is. Let's see here... let me look at my schduel... 90
is booked up... 91 seems pretty tight... hmmmm oh well maybe someone else has
the time.

Frank



#: 7780 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    26-Oct-90  15:25:03
Sb: #Help with C
Fm: MAS 76336,3226
To: sysop (X)

Hello there,

Thanks again for the tips on gs_opt, I have another question on Os9 C
programming. In order to port our UNIX Telnet-server implementation from SUN to
OS-9 we have to find out how to create and access a login shell a login shell
from within an OS-9 program.

On UNIX we proceed as follow: 1) In the main program we create 2 pipes: p1 and
p2. 2) The main programs forks. 3) The parent (continuation of main)
   closes the reading end of p1 and
   closes the writing end of p2. 4) The child
   closes the writing end of p1 and
   closes the reading end of p2;
   redirects its standard input to read from p1 (close (0), dup(p1)),
   redirects its standard output to write to p2 (close (1), dup(p2));
   replaces the current child process with a login shell process (execl(.)).

The parent program now controls a login shell through the p1 and p2 pipes.

Fork() and pipe() are very different on OS-9! Could you give us some hints on
how to create and access a login shell from within an OS-9 program?

Thanks in advance!

Robert CHENd

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7782 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    26-Oct-90  17:09:32
Sb: #7780-Help with C
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

Hi Robert - I'm no UNIX guru, and others here may come up with a totally
different way of handling a login shell startup for you... but I think I can
help some on at least how pipes/forks are handled:

Under OS9, child processes inherit at least the parent's standard three paths
(in, out, err) at Fork time.  I believe under OS9/68K (OSK) you can change that
number, but we'll ignore that for now.

Therefore the trick is to have the parent process redirect any of those paths
_before_ forking a child.  One sequence might be:

 open pipe:(p0)         /* parent opens two pipe paths
 open pipe:(p1)
 dup   (0):(save0)      /* parent saves copy of stdin/out for later
 dup   (1):(save1)
 close (0), dup(p0)     /* redirect parent's stdin/out to pipes
 close (1), dup(p1)

 fork child             /* child starts up; inherits pipes as stdin/out

 close (0), dup(save0)  /* parent resets its original stdin/out
 close (save0)             and closes copies
 close (1), dup(save1)
 close (save1)
 ...
 write (p0)             /* parent uses pipe paths to comm with child
 read  (p1)

In this way, children don't have to know about redirection (altho they could
use gs_opts to check path device types, if wished). best - kev

#: 7784 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    26-Oct-90  18:09:48
Sb: #7780-Help with C
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: MAS 76336,3226 (X)

Things differ between OS-9/6809 and OS-9/68000.  Children only inherit the
standard paths under OS-9/6809 (0, 1, 2), while under OS-9/68000, the parent
can tell the system to have the child inherit the first n paths.

As you've already noticed, F$Fork is very definitely *not* Unix fork(). 
Copying all that state information is expensive! <grin>  Admittedly it calls
for a bit of footwork with dup(), open(), and close(), but it can be done--I
think there is a file in a DL that describes it.

#: 7786 S1/General Interest
    26-Oct-90  20:19:32
Sb: #info?
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Pete 76703,4230 (X)

Pete (or anyone else with a suggestion),

A newuser on my system (referred by Kent) recently left this request for
information. As I can barely keep track of my CoCo 3, let alone the MM/1 stuff,
I was hoping you could offer some advice:

<<>>

From: newuser
Date: 26 Oct 90   09:53:16
 To: steve
Subj:

Steve- got this number from Kent .... on the SK*DOS bulletin board.  I have an
 Elektra 6809 system, with SSB 6809, Hazelwood 256K RAM, SSB diskette controll
er.  Looking for info on a hard-disk adapter.  Other machines include UniBoard
 6809, MANY SWTPC 6800/6809 SS50 systems, a Mac, and a PC Jr..... Just for
parts.

<<>>

Thanks for whatever I might be able to pass on.

Steve



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7787 S1/General Interest
    26-Oct-90  21:13:15
Sb: #7786-info?
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Steve -

Elektra also makes hard disk interfaces for SS50's.. that's who made the one I
had in the Gimix.

Pete

#: 7789 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    27-Oct-90  07:44:40
Sb: #Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

I've just finished installing OS-9/68K V2.1 on an old Atari-ST and now I'm
looking for a way to move source code over to it.  Can someone suggest a way to
bootstrap a terminal program onto the ST so that I can use a protocol like
XMODEM or Kermit to transfer files?  Alternatively, a program that would read
MS-DOS disks would do.  Any suggestions?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7791 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    27-Oct-90  08:18:18
Sb: #7789-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Try STerm. It is compatable with OSK at the source level, or so I'm told.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7797 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    27-Oct-90  11:12:21
Sb: #7791-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Zack Sessions 76407,1524 (X)

Okay, how do I get STerm onto my ST?  Can I just capture the source code and
recompile?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7832 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  09:50:20
Sb: #7797-Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

I think it is already in the OSK lib.If not, isn't ar compatable with Level2
and OSK? If so, then download the L2 archive, dearc it, and re-compile it.

Zack

#: 7799 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    27-Oct-90  13:32:48
Sb: #7789-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Dave - if you still have your CoCo, I it could be used to write some ST
disks... umm, and I think the ST will also read coco disks with the drive
descriptor changed.

I take it there's no COM program on the ST/OS9?  No, I guess that wasn't
included back then. Okay, go to Lib 12 here and download (and list on your PC)
the file BT.BAS which is intended to bootstrap yourself up on an ST.

Once you get going, also get STCIOW.AR and WINDOW.AR, which'll also give you
back multiple screens  (a la coco) on the ST,  which can be handy.

Gotta run. Will check back with more ideas. - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7801 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    27-Oct-90  14:05:30
Sb: #7799-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I downloaded 'kermit.sr' from BIX and copied that to the ST using the 'copy /t1
kermit.sr' command, then converted using 'exbin'.  Now, I've got kermit
running.  I used that to transfer the file 'sterm1.3' that I downloaded from
here.  It works, except that I get a bus error when I try to do an xmodem
transfer.

I also downloaded 'stciow.ar' and 'window.ar' from here.  I'll try transfering
them with kermit later today.

Thanks for your help!

David

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7826 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  07:45:57
Sb: #7801-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Hmmm...  Things get stranger.  I used kermit to transfer sterm1.3 successfully,
but now I can't get it to transfer *anything*.  Is there some reason why it
would work once but never again?  Is there a problme with the serial driver in
version 2.1?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7830 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  08:59:23
Sb: #7826-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Hmm... if you're always xmode'd at the same baud rate on that port, I'd go
ahead and "iniz" it on startup, so that the driver's init/term routines don't
get called each time you use it.   Not positive, but I think that helps prevent
serial probs on the ST.   Dunno about now, but the ST version used to use a lot
of the ST BIOS ROM routines.

Is this during same boot?  Or after the machine was off for a while?   Or? ST's
tend to have heat problems too.  This a Mega or old-style ST?  On the oldstyle,
I took off the internal RF shield to let the heat get out better. Worked
wonders on preventing flakiness.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7839 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  12:46:08
Sb: #7830-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I think I see what the problem is.  The first time I used kermit, I did an
'iniz' on T1.  The second time I didn't (and I had rebooted).  Given that, I'm
surprised it worked at all.  Don't you need to iniz a device before using it?

I'm using a Mega ST4 with an Atari 20MB hard disk.  Do they have heat problems?

On another note, I finally got 'ar68.bin' transfered to my machine.  Now what
do I do with it.  I had expected it to be directly executable, but ident seems
to think it isn't an executable file.  Do I need to run some sort of conversion
program on it first?

Thanks for all your help!

David Betz

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7841 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  13:57:40
Sb: #7839-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

David -

When files are imported (other than from floppy), they typically don't have
execute permission. Try setting the attributes:

 attr ar68.bin e pe

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7866 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  19:53:30
Sb: #7841-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

I tried that.  It didn't work.  Apparently, the file got munged somewhere in
the transfer process.  Not surprising since I downloaded it on my MS-DOS
machine, then transfered it to a Macintosh with the Apple File Exchange
program, then kermited it over to the ST.  Unfortunately, I can't try it again
since I can't get kermit to work again.  Thanks for the suggestion though.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7895 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    29-Oct-90  11:30:48
Sb: #7866-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Hmm - odd. Does 'ident kermit' show a bad CRC?

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7897 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    29-Oct-90  18:12:33
Sb: #7895-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

No, 'ident' shows a good CRC.  Kermit runs.  It just fails after the first few
blocks have been transfered.  In fact, the failure isn't noticed on the ST,
just on the Macintosh that I'm using to transfer the files (using RedRyder on
the M Mac).

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7903 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    29-Oct-90  21:29:11
Sb: #7897-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Hmm... just for grins, is the serial port Xmode'd to all 0's (except the baud,
init byte, and EOR)? Is Xon/Xoff enabled? Try running kermit with the debug
option(s) on. I believe the more -d's you use, the chattier it gets. At least
that's the case for C-Kermit (Unix). I believe OS9 Kermit also has a chattier
mode.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7914 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    30-Oct-90  11:04:09
Sb: #7903-Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Thanks for the suggestion.  I don't think the Mac version of kermit has a way
to turn on debugging mode, but the OS-9 version does.  I'll try that.



#: 7849 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  16:50:12
Sb: #7839-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Yes, ar68.bin should be executable.  To add execution permissions under OSK:

 attr filename -e -pe

(unlike os9/6809, all osk options begin with "-".  Type "attr -?" to see help. 
That goes for all commands, btw).

If ident won't work on it then, try "dump filename" and see if the first two
bytes aren't $4AFC, which is the header for OSK modules.  No?  Perhaps you
transferred it over in 7-bit mode?

Kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7868 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  19:57:11
Sb: #7849-Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

I suppose I could have transfered it in ASCII mode.  I specified the 'i' switch
to Kermit, but I know at least one version of Kermit where 'i' means "suppress
image mode".  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get kermit to work again,
so I can't try leaving out the 'i'.

#: 7851 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  17:21:10
Sb: #7839-Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

In theory, at least, if a device hasn't been initialized, it is initialized
when a path is opened to it.  If it hasn't been explicitly initialized, it is
uninitialized when the last path open to it is closed. It may be that the Atari
serial device driver routines for initialization or termination are buggy.

#: 7840 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  13:09:09
Sb: #7830-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Well, I tried doing the following:

xmode /t1 baud=4800 iniz t1

Then I tried a kermit transfer and it failed after a few blocks.  So, I decided
to try a lower baud rate.  I did this with the following commands:

deiniz t1 xmode /t1 baud=2400 iniz t1

That sequence of commands crashed my machine.  Or, to be precise, it locked up
the console.  I don't know if OS-9 was still running.

Now, I'm beginning to remember why I abandoned OS-9 ages ago.  This ST port
doesn't seem to be the most robust software around.  Does anyone know if there
is a patch that will make the serial driver more reliable?

Thanks!

David

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7850 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  16:50:36
Sb: #7840-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

No, you shouldn't need to iniz a device before using it.  Just using it does
that for you.  When you stop using it, it deiniz's automatically.

Most OS9 ports are extremely robust.  This one was just a bit strange in birth.
The original ST port was a 3td party strange-o thingie (I think the latest
version from MW is much changed - not sure about that), which used some of the
ST ROM code.  I haven't used its serial port that much myself, while some
others do so all the time (for remote logins).

But yes, there seems to be a problem in the way the driver terminates itself
(this is a casual guess). I don't know if anyone has tracked it down. Carl
Kreider might know, or the guys down at Florida State music department.  I'll
ask around; and/or find someone to look at it.

No idea if the Megas had heat problems, altho I often hear that many STs need
to have all the chips pushed down in their sockets once in a while. The ST I
use does have a Supra HD heat problem... I have to warm it up for ten minutes
before using it.  The ST workmanship was one reason for building the new 68K
machines instead of using those already out there.  best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7869 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  20:00:02
Sb: #7850-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

One thing that I've determined is that if I type 'deiniz t1' too many times, I
hang the machine.  I assume this isn't normal behavior.  BTW, I'm not drawing
the conclusion that OS-9 itself is buggy, only that this version that I'm
trying to use is.  Unfortunately, it's frustrating to be so close, but still
not have a system to work with.  Anyway, thanks for all your help.  I'll keep
plugging away...



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7872 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  20:36:50
Sb: #7869-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Yah, it's too bad v2.3 costs so much for the ST.

I'll take a look in the next coupla days at that driver.  Maybe it's something
obvious.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7875 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  21:13:32
Sb: #7872-#Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Thanks, Kevin.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7884 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    29-Oct-90  01:42:46
Sb: #7875-Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Only got a chance to take a quick look so far.. but it sets up TWO interrupt
vectors.  Need now to look at the ST BIOS to see why there's separate input and
output vectors, and what might cause troubles.  Umm, that is, there are 2 OS9
interrupt entries set up, using the BIOS ROM routines.

Perhaps different STs had different routines, and so some people have worse
trouble than others?  This is one reason why there's been a (tiny) movement to
rewrite all the drivers from scratch, without using any ROM code at all from
the ST.  I wonder if MW did that in v2.3?  Dunno.

No need to reply... I'll keep you updated.

#: 7874 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    28-Oct-90  20:41:31
Sb: #7869-Atari-ST file transfer
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)

Oh yeah... sidenote: I believe that if you type "deiniz xx" one more time than
necessary, then what actually happens is that the device is iniz'd and
deiniz'd.  I'm pretty sure this is what happens, so maybe the initialize
routine is the culprit instead.

Seems like I do recall someone mentioning changing baud rates as a sure way to
get into trouble... but that must be using tmode on the path desc while inside
a term program.  In any case, definitely something wrong here.

#: 7790 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    27-Oct-90  08:11:42
Sb: #Disto stuff
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin:

I'm working on putting togeather a hard drive system for my CoCo, and it is
starting to get interesting. I have found out you don't just buy some stuff,
put it all togeather and wa-la.

The problem I have is I'm using the Disto Super Controller I with a 3in1 board.
Thus I can not use the B&B system. I wrote to Owl ware, but they don't seem to
want to talk to me.(It's been about a month and a half) Also it seems that the
4in1 will not work with the SC-I.

So will it work if I break out my MPI, put in a new PAL chip, and use the Disto
MEB II with the Hard Disk Adapter? I was talking to Frank Hogg, and he
mentioned that you wrote the drivers for this stuff. He could set me up with
the rest of what I need. But first I need to know if it will work. If not know
anybody who wants a SC-I w/3in1?

     >Lute<

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7821 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Oct-90  00:10:07
Sb: #7790-#Disto stuff
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)

Lute,

I can't think of any reason why that setup wouldn't work.  That's the way it
was intended, actually (the Disto cards).

In fact, you should be able to use the B&B hard disk in the MPI with the SC-I,
if you wished (were you given any reason why not?).

Much more stuff works together than you'd think... all of us communicated
behind the scenes when writing our drivers to make sure of that.

Kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7845 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Oct-90  16:27:39
Sb: #7821-#Disto stuff
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin:

From what I understand, it's not the SC-I that is the problem, it's the 3in1.
Something about memory mapping. I have become very fond of my 3in1, and the
only way I will give it up is for something better. However I don't have $250
to drop on a SC-II and 4in1, or Eliminator set up. That would put my hard drive
off even longer.

So I was hoping to use what I have. That being the MPI and something that will
work with the SC-I/3in1 setup. The B&B sounded good, but when I talked to FHL,
they checked with Disto, and no go. This is when I went to the MEB II Hard Disk
Adapter idea.

All I really want is to keep my 3in1 and get a hard drive online. By the way,
does the info on formatting a hard drive come with the adapter? I've come
across a 45meg Seagate N series for $320 that I thought I might like. This
would also work better if and or when I decided to move up to one of the new
machines.

I hope I'm getting across whats going on here.

     >Lute<

There are 3 Replies.

#: 7848 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Oct-90  16:49:25
Sb: #7845-Disto stuff
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)

Ah. Hmm. Okay, let me think about this offline a little more, when I get a
chance to read your msg (dinner time now).  back soon - kev

#: 7879 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Oct-90  22:02:46
Sb: #7845-#Disto stuff
Fm: Randy Wilson 71561,756
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)


Did Frank give a reason why the Disto and B&B wouldn't get along? I've been
running this setup (with an SC2) for about three weeks, now. Admottedly, there
isn't anyway it would work on a Y-cable or equiv, they're addressed at the same
spot (FF5x), but everything should be cool with a MPI. That's what the SCS line
is all about.

Randy

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7898 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  18:32:48
Sb: #7879-Disto stuff
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To: Randy Wilson 71561,756 (X)

Randy,

No, not really. He told me that he had called Disto, and asked them, and that
it kind of sounded like he hit a nerve. So he didn't persue it. From what I got
out of gt, they said something like "No it won't work and we don't know why!"

But if you're using an SC-II/3-1 with the B&B system, by rights it should work
with an SC-I/3-1. However I have been leaning to a SCSI system. Just seems like
it may be a better way for me to go. I've had real good luck with Disto so far,
may as well stick with them.

     >Lute<

#: 7891 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  05:25:23
Sb: #7845-#Disto stuff
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)

Lute,

I couldn't find my docs on either the 3-1 or SC-I, but there shouldn't be
(couldn't be!) any memory map conflicts... as all the MEB cards are MPI
slot-selected.

The B&B is also slot-selected, which means any combination of Disto/BB stuff
should work together.  The slot stuff was tricky, but there again we'd all
gotten together and made sure our drivers didn't stomp on each other ;-).

The HD/MEB sounds like a good idea if you want to use that Seagate drive.  Or
for that matter, the Ken-Ton SCSI interface should work also (not sure what
addresses it uses, tho. anybody know?)

Or: ever since my poor Rodime SCSI blew up from lightning (it was hooked to a
Disto 2-1 HD card inside my Disto ramdisk),  I've kept on using my old original
LR Tech (Owlware?) SASI interface, which I've always liked a lot.

So any of the HD cards out there should work okay with your SC-I/3-1 setup, as
far as I can tell/remember.

best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7899 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  18:34:49
Sb: #7891-#Disto stuff
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin:

Thanks for the input. Think I'll stick with the Disto route. I've had real good
luck with them so far.

Just a thought, would it be possible to use the HD/RS232 card and squeeze a
second port out of the system. I know drivers would have to be  weaked etc. But
you must admit, would be nice. Maybe try something like Bruce I. did with the
mouse driver for his Eliminator.

I'm just going to have to learn more about this stuff.

     >Lute<



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7905 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  21:41:04
Sb: #7899-#Disto stuff
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)

Lute -

Yes, you can use the second RS232 port on the HD card.  The disk should come
with a driver for that (it does on the SC-II disk... altho it was a late comer
afterthought deal).

However, it would require jumpering (by whatever means) the interrupts from the
second card ... MPI slots tied together, or separate wire, or whatever. This
because the MPI only allows one slot to pass irqs at a time.

That special driver, btw, is kinda weird.  Consider: each rs232 port is now
slot-selected.  Thus a normal driver (which would just go out and poll an
address) cannot be used.  The special driver solicits all interrupts (this
takes almost no extra time) and polls iniz'd driver slots itself to see if a
slot-selected rs232 card gave the interrupt.  Little weird, but it worked (to
my surprise - hehe).

Umm. Was that clear as mud?  The MPI slot thingie is a key point to understand
when getting into this stuff, from a techie standpoint. - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7935 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  19:40:38
Sb: #7905-#Disto stuff
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kevin:

No problem on the IRQ line, I hacked my MPI back in the Level 1, PBJ wordpak
days. Tie pin 8s together, right?

Ok, this sounds kind of strange. What I have in mind is using the second port
for a mouse. When I read that Bruce did it, I kind of thought it would be nice
to have a serial mouse for Multi-Vue.

Do you think I'm getting in over my head. Keep in mind, I have very little
programming and hardware experience.

     >Lute<

P.S. Do you think it can be done?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7939 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  21:43:36
Sb: #7935-#Disto stuff
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)

Ah I see.  Umm, you'd have to get Bruce to write a specific version of his
mouse driver for using two Disto serial ports, I'm afraid.  If you had an extra
slot for an old RS232 cartridge, that'd be much easier.

No, wait a sec. Hmmm. Let me think about this... cuz actually it seems like you
could run the mouse off the slot 4 port, and use the slot-switching-driver for
the other serial port.  I'll have to look at something first, to see if this
would be possible. Hang on.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7956 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  08:24:50
Sb: #7939-Disto stuff
Fm: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)



Kevin:

If it's going to be some kind of a nightmare, I'll just make do until I move up
to a Tomcat. I hope by that time someone has put togeather a Multi-Vue type
system fop them.

Is there any reason I can't use an 80 Meg Seagate with the Disto HD board? I
can gane 40 Meg for $40. It's an ST296N.

If the mouse thing would work with an old RS232 pak, I'm going to scream. When
I got the 3-1 I sold mine for $10!!!

So hopefully it will work on the slot 4 port.

     >Lute<



#: 7792 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    27-Oct-90  08:28:22
Sb: CoCo 3, 13MB HD 4 Sale
Fm: Mark E. Sunderlin 74026,3235
To: All

All of the following are FOR SALE:

        512K Color Computer 3
        Bruce ISTED Western Digital Host Adaptor,
              Western Digital Controller
                Fujitsu 13 Megabyte Hard Disk
        2 Joytsticks
        Hi-res Joystick Adaptor
        Tandy Multi-Pak
        Tandy RS-232 PAK
        Tandy Disk Controller
        2 Double sided, double desnity floppyies
                in single case with power supply
        "Blue Streak" serial to parellel Printer convertor
        Keyboard extender cable & extra keyboard
        Cassette interface cable

Software:
        OS9 Level II, Os9 Level I, Deskmate 3, OS9 'C', Hogg eForth, Dynastar &
Dynaform, T/S Spell, Home Publisher, T/S Edit, Wiz Pro, Color Computer Artist,
Rogue, King's Quest III, Rescue on Fracalus, Koronis Rift, and for RS-DOS:
ChessD, Cubix, Rommel 3D, Gantelet, Shamus, and Wishbringer

Books:
        Lot's of CoCo and OS9 books come with this system.

I really want this system to get a good home, it's been a good system to me.
I'll take the highest offer for this system, whatever it might be.

Please contact me via phone at (703) 869-3833, via internet mail at
megabyte@chinet.chi.il.us, or you can use mail here, but I only call CIS about
once a week or so.

#: 7796 S3/Languages
    27-Oct-90  11:04:16
Sb: #C loop
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: all

This short OSK C program fragment prints the last structure record twice! 

Since the check in the while loop is at the start of the loop I'd figure that 
EOF ought to be detected properly.  I checked the file using dump and the 
last record is only in the file once.  

Any ideas??

main()
{
  struct example_record record;
  FILE *in_file;

  while( feof(in_file)==0 )
  {       
    fread(&record, sizeof(record), 1, in_file);
    printf("%9d %25s %25s %15s %5s %5d\n", record.ssn, record.name, 
           record.addr, record.city, record.state, record.zip);
  } /* end of while */

  fclose(in_file);

} /* End of main */

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7803 S3/Languages
    27-Oct-90  16:09:44
Sb: #7796-#C loop
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

C standard I/O is set up such that feof(fp) is true, aside from questions of
attempts to explicitly set or clear it outside of library code, only when one
has attempted to read past the end of the file.  The standard I/O routines
don't attempt to tell whether the current read has read the last byte of the
file and set the EOF flag in the FILE structure in that case, which is what
would have to happen for the code in your message to behave the way you
expected.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7834 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  11:00:26
Sb: #7803-#C loop
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)


Ok, I understand what you're saying.

The MW OSK C Manual p. 61 says "A non-zero value is returned if the file is
*at* end-of-file, otherwise a zero is returned." (emphasis added) which is what
I based my code on.

I'll scribble in a note in my manual, maybe you could nudge the manual writers
to add this in to a future revision?

Thanks a bunch!

-J

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7853 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  17:24:23
Sb: #7834-C loop
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

I'll bring the topic up; there is definitely a chance for confusion.

#: 7828 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  08:53:24
Sb: #7796-#C loop
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Jay -

In the code fragment, there is nowhere where the file is opened. Other than
that, it looks basically okay.

I prefer the construct:

  while(!feof(file))
        { ...

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7835 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  11:00:43
Sb: #7828-#C loop
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)


Pete,

The file was opened previously in the code.

I did try "!feof" but for some reason I changed it while trying to solve some
other problem, can't recall what it was at the moment.

James Jones said that you have to actually read past EOF.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7842 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  14:01:57
Sb: #7835-#C loop
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Hmm-

That may be cloaked by the library, because something like this works ducky:

  ... open file ...

  while(!feof(file))
        {
        fgets(buffer,MAX, file);
               puts(buffer);
         }

  ... close file ...

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7852 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  17:23:23
Sb: #7842-C loop
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

If you look close, you may find an extra \n in the output.  Do a dump of the
output file.

#: 7798 S3/Languages
    27-Oct-90  12:20:22
Sb: #OSK C
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: all

OK, I must be confused!  The C book I am using shows something like this:

    while( (ch=getchar()) |='Y' && ch |='y' && ch |= 'N' && ch |= 'n')
      printf("Please enter a Y or a N\n");

"ch" is defined like this:

  int ch;

As I understand it, getchar returns an integer so this should be ok.

When I compile this with the MW OSK C compiler I get:

"prog9.c", line 59: ****  lvalue required ****
    while( (ch=getc((&_iob[0]))) |='Y' && ch |='y' && ch |= 'N' && ch |= 'n')
              ^

and this continues for each ocurrence of "ch" in the statement.  The error 
messages in the C manual state that this means that the item to the left of 
the assignment operator must be able to be stored into.  I thought you could 
store a char into an int.

So what obvious fact am I overlooking this time?

-J


There are 3 Replies.

#: 7800 S3/Languages
    27-Oct-90  14:02:10
Sb: #7798-#OSK C
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

You should be using '!=' instead of '|='.  The vertical bar is the bitwise or
operator and combined with '=', it is the bitwise or assignment operator.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7836 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  11:00:54
Sb: #7800-OSK C
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)


Argh! (insert sound of palm contacting forehead here)

I DID mean to type "!=" !

I KNEW it had to be something simple, Thanks!



#: 7804 S3/Languages
    27-Oct-90  16:13:00
Sb: #7798-#OSK C
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

You typed |= and you probably meant !=.  A subtle difference, but a crucial
one!  The reason the caret points at the = is that it's the left-hand side of
the |= assignment operator, or rather, the = is the root node of the expression
tree that's the left child of the |=.

Actually, you're pretty darned lucky; the rest of the |= should have been !=
too, but because just ch (which is an lvalue) was the LHS, the compiler would
have blithely done what you told it to do, and your loop would have run
forever!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7837 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  11:01:55
Sb: #7804-OSK C
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)


Argh! (insert sound of palm contacting forehead here)

I DID mean to type "!=" !

I KNEW it had to be something simple, Thanks!



#: 7829 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  08:58:55
Sb: #7798-#OSK C
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565 (X)

Jay -

Did you really mean to use "or equals" (|=), or rather "not equals" (!=)?

Also - better to break it down, either explicitly, or with parentheses, into
more digestable chunks:

   c = getc(iobuf_mine);
   if(c != 'Y' && c != 'y' ....


Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7838 S3/Languages
    28-Oct-90  11:02:18
Sb: #7829-OSK C
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)


I agree with breaking the code down in to more manageble chunks, makes it much
easier to remember later what in the heck you were trying to do!  I generally
try to keep things simple, this was an example that I swiped from a book and
then modified.  I'm trying to get stuff done ASAP when I don't fully understand
all of the nuances of C.

No real surprises, just lots of "oh yeahs" followed by the sound of my palm
impacting my forehead.  There was a joke or something about this that connected
the slapping of one's forehead with one's palm to a growing forehead/receeding
hairline but it escapes me at the moment.

Thanks, -J



#: 7805 S4/MIDI and Music
    27-Oct-90  20:20:05
Sb: #7329-UME 4.7
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

Ches, and EVERYONE, ahere is another victim of ShellPlus version 2.1 -- you
have to to patch it before you can run any BIG applications under Sell+ 2.1. 
The patch to Shell+ is: location $130F grom $1F to 01 or maybe 00. Where "grom"
means "from". (Do NOT buy a Star 2400 baud modem; they barely work at 300, and
don't like OSTerm at all!). --mike k PS:  Please, everyone spread the word
about Shell+ and its patch -- you can't run KBCom or MVCanvas from it either
without the fix.

#: 7806 S4/MIDI and Music
    27-Oct-90  20:22:50
Sb: #7339-UME 4.7
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: James Jones 76257,562 (X)

James, he got bit by the infamous Sell+ 2.1 well-meaning "feature" that tries
to run everything #8K.  Not good for C programs, especially malloc() users. See
my other reply for the patch.  Yes, CHes and I confirmed on the voice phone
that he was using Shell+. Thanks for the vote of confidence there -- mike k.

#: 7807 S4/MIDI and Music
    27-Oct-90  20:28:59
Sb: #7356-#UME Query 2
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

No sin on my part, just some well-meaning liberal attempts by Shell+ to give
more memory initially, thus meaning that Umuse3 can't allocate (malloc) more
later.  Surprised that the hard drive makes any difference.

There is a bug in C's malloc() routine tho, or maybe in Level 2. If you view
the "g?" menu you will get "oil spill" on the top of the screen, which will
then infect every other menu afterwards. I fixed this, but till we get the next
version out, do this -Always visit the MIDI Modes or Levels sub-menu as soon as
you get to the Score Screen the first time you start up Umuse -- this "trains"
the memory allocater not to make mistakes with that huge g? menu. --mike k.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7825 S4/MIDI and Music
    28-Oct-90  05:27:19
Sb: #7807-UME Query 2
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Thanks for info, Mike.  I'll get back to you with results.  Ches.

#: 7827 S4/MIDI and Music
    28-Oct-90  08:36:47
Sb: #7807-UME Query 2
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Mike, I am now a happy UME'er again!  One wrinkle slowed me down; I was using
shell+ v2.0 not v2.1 because I'd never got around to changing to the latest
version.  So after poking around in various archive disks, I finally found vers
2.1 which does indeed have $1F at $130F.  Changed to 01, remerged a new shell,
etc. etc. and now all is working fine.  Thanks for the help!! Kevin D. if you
are "listening", how about a short tutorial on what this problem is with
shell+?    Regards,  Ches. P.S. to Mike - haven't seen the "oil spill" yet, but
am ready for it. chl

#: 7808 S4/MIDI and Music
    27-Oct-90  20:36:37
Sb: #7344-#midi help
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Lester Hands 70135,430 (X)

I know the feeling, Lester -- everyone asks whether UltiMusE can record and
print finsihed scores, too! I lose some sales since it doesn't record, tho the
score printing is pretty decent. I expect recording to be practical on the
MM/1. Regards, mike k. PS: What did you price the PC version of Lyra at?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7947 S4/MIDI and Music
    02-Nov-90  23:24:16
Sb: #7808-#midi help
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Are you nearing a finished version of UMUSE for the MM/1 yet? I would suspect
that your file format lends itself rather well to recording! The PC version of
Lyra is priced at $49.95.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7950 S4/MIDI and Music
    03-Nov-90  01:51:14
Sb: #7947-midi help
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Lester Hands 70135,430

I think that the really interesting part about a recording Umuse would be the
part that either infers or makes it easy for the user to indicate what parts of
the played notes correspond to the musical control structures that Umuse
supports--it couldn't do exact matching because of darned near unavoidable
differences between repetitions (I don't think I could play identically each
time through :-), and even apart from that, wouldn't it be nice to have
something recognize for you that "aside from playing this sequence in measure n
differently, the stuff is the same, and I should use small notes to display the
second version"?  I would think that internally that would be just like 1st -
nth endings, but without backing up./ex



#: 7809 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  20:42:43
Sb: #Compatible OSK Machines?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Oooh, sounds impressive Ed.  I really wish I could have made it.

Here is a good question - just how compatable are these OSK machines with each
other?  Can you take a disk out of a System IV and stick it in a MM/1 (and have
it work?)

  --Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7885 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  03:43:25
Sb: #7809-#Compatible OSK Machines?
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360 (X)


Colin,

Sorry you didn't make it - maybe you can make the next one.

Your question:  Can you take a disk out of a System IV and stick it in a MM/1
(and have it work)?

First to qualify my answers - I can speak authoritively for the SYSTEM IV. I
don't have an MM/1 so my statements about it are based on my understanding of
that machine.  Also, I have to divide your answer into three parts - plain
'text' type programs, programs that use graphics and disk formats.

Programs not using graphics -

In this sense, the SYSTEM IV is a 'vanilla' machine.  It uses a standard 68000.
Programs, whether compiled on the SYSTEM IV or other machines (the Hazelwood
boards used in FHL's QT series, Motorola and Mizar boards used in VME systems,
etc.), all worked on each of the other machines.  Exception - some programs
compiled on the Atari ST under OS9 have not worked on any of the above
machines.  We _think_ these programs use a feature of the ST that the other
machines don't have.  Not having the source files for these programs I can't
say what the problem is.  (No, we haven't dissassembled the code.)

(Continued)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7886 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  03:44:30
Sb: #7885-#Compatible OSK Machines?
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)


(Continued)

The MM/1 and TC70 use the Signetics 68070 chip.  The instruction set for this
chip is supposed to be identical to the 68000 so there should be no problem. I
sent a set of the TOP disks to one of the MM/1 developers.  He did try a couple
of the programs and reported that they did work OK.  He hasn't had time to try
them all, so I don't know about the programs that won't run on the hardware
described above.

Programs using graphics -

There _may_ be a problem here.  We are using the standard ANSI sequence set
where possible.  Unfortunately, ANSI does not cover color.  We filled part of
the gap with 'IBM ANSI COLOR' sequences but they are not complete. (We are
talking to Keving Darling and FHL to agree on a 'standard'.)

Disk drive formats -

MW has set standards for 720K drives, both 5 1/4" and 3 1/2".  The drivers on
the SYSTEM IV follow these standards.  I assume the MM/1 will also follow these
standards.

MW has _not_ set standards for high-density drives.  When we decided to support
high density drives we called MW and asked for their recommendation - they
would not provide any.  We checked with some of the other manufacturers
providing VME boards.  We couldn't find any that were supporting high-density
drives.  We set 'TOS' and 'SCT' (sectors on track 0 and sectors per track) to
34 sectors per track.  We tried 36 sectors but had some problems with some
manufacturer's drives.  35 sectors seemed OK so we settled on 34 to be safe.
This work was done about six months ago.

(Continued)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7887 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  03:45:30
Sb: #7886-#Compatible OSK Machines?
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)


(Continued)

When I sent the TOP disks (3 1/2", high density) to the developer I mentioned
earlier, he couldn't read them.  Turned out that his TOS and SCT were set to 33
sectors per track.  Using 'moded' (more on that later) he was able to change
his descriptor and read the disks. At the Atlanta CoCo fest, I asked Kevin
Pease about the selection of 33 sectors.  He said he had experienced some
problems with 34 sectors so he backed off.  It was hectic there and we were not
able to continued our discussions.  This is one of the subjects the consortium
should discuss.

OS9/68000 comes with a utility called 'moded'.  This utility allows the user to
make or change a device descriptor easily.  Thus, you can have any number of
descriptors for a given drive.  For a quick or temporary change, a pd utility
called 'dmode' is available to change the device descriptor 'on the fly'.  This
utility is also available under LII so you may be familiar with it.

I'm sorry I couldn't give you a simple yes or no answer.  To repeat, I can't
speak for IMS and I don't have a MM/1 so I can't test it.  I don't know of
anyone who has run tests on both machines.  So, I've tried to answer as
accurately and completely as I can.

Ed Gresick  DELMAR CO

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7892 S15/Hot Topics
    29-Oct-90  05:31:28
Sb: #7887-Compatible OSK Machines?
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

And to all that, I'd add that when fancier cpus become more popular (020/030+),
you can also run into trouble.  There are already a couple of compiled programs
in the libs, which have 68020 instructions in them... the 68000 machines can't
run those (and usually blow up).

Gotta hit the sack soon, but have another comment on all this I'll try to
remember for tonight.  Oops. Better write it down. Okay. Later!  zzzzzz

#: 7943 S15/Hot Topics
    02-Nov-90  22:38:34
Sb: #7887-#Compatible OSK Machines?
Fm: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360
To: Ed Gresick 76576,3312 (X)

Ed,

Thanks.  I really did understand your answer.  I just want to see all of these
OSK machines work with one another.  To be quite honest, I don't think that
they would have much of a chance if they aren't somewhat compatable.  Everybody
wins that way.

  --Colin

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7954 S15/Hot Topics
    03-Nov-90  02:53:24
Sb: #7943-Compatible OSK Machines?
Fm: Ed Gresick 76576,3312
To: Colin J. Smith 73777,1360

Colin,

You're right - compatibility among the machines is _most_ important. We'll do
our best in that direction.

Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

#: 7811 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  20:54:08
Sb: #7222-#MM/1 Software
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166 (X)

Hi Glen!  Aren't you the Toronto plumber who did some great rock scores on
Ultimuse?  Yes, it's coming to the MM/1.

Anyway, currently only Logitech mice (or the compatible Mouse Systems' White
Mouse) are supported, but other mice are just a question of writing other
device drivers. --mike knudsen (Ragtimer)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7859 S15/Hot Topics
    28-Oct-90  18:58:04
Sb: #7811-MM/1 Software
Fm: GLEN HATHAWAY 71446,166
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Hi Mike... Yeah, that's me, but I live in Vancouver, B.C. now. Moved here in
March '89 for the housing boom. Business has been great! I still mess with MIDI
sometimes, but don't have much spare time lately. A question for ya: Why won't
Umuse (shareware version) start in a VDG window started after bootup by me? It
works just fine when I boot up in a VDG only setup, but gives only error 37
when I try it the other way.

#: 7812 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  21:00:27
Sb: #7273-#CoCoFest Report
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Kev, the smartest move at the Fest was IMS and CocoPro laying on the hot hors
d'oevres during YOUR session.  They knew it was gonna run thru dinnertime! 
Best regards, mike k.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7822 S15/Hot Topics
    28-Oct-90  00:13:46
Sb: #7812-CoCoFest Report
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Mike - yah, the food was a good idea and a nice move!  Just wish I hadn't been
asleep giving my own seminar <grin>.  Thought of tons of stuff I didn't even
cover, the next day of course.

And all of us were asleep while eating OUR dinner late that night.  Or maybe it
was just Frank's jokes that caused that <grinning at FH and ducking!>.

#: 7813 S15/Hot Topics
    27-Oct-90  21:07:01
Sb: #7399-#CoCoFest Report
Fm: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111
To: Dave Myers 71750,210 (X)

Dave, congrats to you and Nancy on a great Fest. Nancy was SOOO gracious to the
Second City contingent when we showed up at the exhibit rooms at MIDNITE. Real
Southern hospitality. Also I definitely appreciated not having to choose
between overlapping seminars, even tho I did have to stop mine 15 minutes early
so the next one could set up (that was Kev, heck he could've waited, grin!).  I
would have attended many more seminars if not busy at my booth.  Thanks again
for a great Fest!  --mike k PS:  Yes, DO turn that PA down next year.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7824 S15/Hot Topics
    28-Oct-90  02:59:50
Sb: #7813-CoCoFest Report
Fm: Dave Myers 71750,210
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Thanks for joining us, Mike! I've heard about the P.A. from a few folks now,
and will definitely be mindful of it in the future...just wish someone would
have SAID something! <grin>. Yes, I remember you guys coming in...we were JUST
about to close the doors, and here comes a bunch of road-weary warriors <grin>.
No way we could have said "sorry guys...but how was your trip?" <grin>. We were
really glad to see you, at any rate...most everyone else was accounted for, and
we were hoping that you didn't run into NJ traffic (even though you were
heading south from Chicago ;-) ). At any rate, thanks for the kind words! We
hope to see you in Chicago, and thanks again for joining us!
   Dave Myers CoCoPRO! Products

#: 7915 S15/Hot Topics
    30-Oct-90  15:25:20
Sb: #7343-#CoCoFest Report
Fm: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

Ches, I am sorry I did not make it to the 'fest. I had 4 RFP's in house at
once. You are familiar with that one eh?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7920 S15/Hot Topics
    30-Oct-90  19:32:05
Sb: #7915-CoCoFest Report
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: MOTD Editor..Bill Brady 70126,267

Too bad you missed it, but the recent give-and-take here was almost more
interesting.  It was a good Fest.  Ches

#: 7831 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    28-Oct-90  09:05:55
Sb: Hard Disk Defrag
Fm: J SILLIMAN 72355,1207
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

J -

Best bet is simple, but laborious:

1. backup the disk (use HDKIT, or equivalent)

2. format the drive again (logical is okay, but why not take the opportunity
   to freshly write track and sector headers).

3. restore the drive (again, HDKIT or equivalent).

Pete
----------------------------------------------------------------
Thanx for the info, but reformating was the last thing I wanted to do.
  I tried FSR again, and so far so good, I was a little worried about using it
because the last time, it totally fragmented the disk, it doesn't like shell+


#: 7846 S4/MIDI and Music
    28-Oct-90  16:36:50
Sb: Beatles UME
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Mike Knudsen 72467,1111

Mike, now that I've been able to start playing with my new toys, I began
listening to the Beatles disk from the Fest.  Is the Ed Hathaway that moused
the tunes on that disk the Ed of 2nd City?  Anyway, please pass on that
Michelle isn't finished...still needs some notes and a 1st/2nd ending at
measure 60.  Ches.

#: 7857 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  18:21:08
Sb: #3-in-1 problems
Fm: Tony Cappellini 76370,2104
To: Kevin Darling

Kevin

Well as you can see I finally managed to log in, but not until a long battle
was fought. The only way I could get RS232 comms. to work was with the RS232
pak, and Telstar. I also used the patched ACIA.dr like you said. I still can't
get the Disto 3-in-1 board to work (serial port only). You can guess who I'll
be calling Monday morning. I did replace the .slp with the .irq driver for the
SCII, but I don' think it made much difference. Thanx for the help. TC

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7862 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  19:17:43
Sb: #7857-3-in-1 problems
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Tony Cappellini 76370,2104 (X)

Tony - glad to see you got back online.

What does Telstar do with the Disto serial port /t2?  Anything?  It might be
that your modem requires one or more lines enabled/jumpered, than what the
Disto serial port connector has?

Also, if possible, get down XCom9... guaranteed not to cheat in any way, and
that will give you/us a better chance to figure out what's going on (or not
going on - grin).

Keep in touch! - kev

#: 7858 S7/Telecommunications
    28-Oct-90  18:31:58
Sb: Serial Port in Distress
Fm: Tony Cappellini 76370,2104
To: ALL

I have just bought an SCII with the 3-in-1 board, and I can't seem to get the
serial port to work. I have been using Osterm, but it never sends enything to
the modem. I ended up putting the RS232pak in and going back to Telstar. My
multipak has a satellite board, the 4 pin8's are tied together, and the diode
hack is installed in the coco 3. I also tried patching acaipak and using the
T2_FF54_slot4.dd descriptor CRC provides. What programs are you people using
with the 3-in-1 board ?? TC

#: 7860 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  19:14:28
Sb: #DDJ Article
Fm: DENIS CHARTRAND 72561,2714
To: David Betz 76704,47 (X)


       There was a good review in January 1987 in DDJ about OS9/68000. That
issue was dedicated to 68K processor.

 BYE





There is 1 Reply.

#: 7870 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  20:02:16
Sb: #7860-DDJ Article
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: DENIS CHARTRAND 72561,2714 (X)

Thanks!   I'll check it out.  I'm a little embarassed that I didn't check for
articles in my own magazine before asking the question though.  :-)

#: 7861 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  19:15:36
Sb: #68 Micro Journal
Fm: DENIS CHARTRAND 72561,2714
To: All


     Last fall (1989) I took an one-year subscription with the 68 MicroJournal.
I did receive the Jan/Feb 90 issue, but since then nothing. Does anybody knows
if they are dead, or if I'm an exception??

   Thanks.




There are 2 Replies.

#: 7863 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  19:22:14
Sb: #7861-68 Micro Journal
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: DENIS CHARTRAND 72561,2714 (X)

Denis - Several people have said that they haven't gotten a 68 Micro since
early this year.  Now, we do know that Don Williams was sick (perhaps
terminally ill) and last year he gave the mag over to his son Larry. The only
thing I've heard since then is a rumor that Don died, but again no one seems to
know for certain.

Does anyone reading this have any info, or been able to contact 68 Micro?

#: 7878 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  21:28:31
Sb: #7861-68 Micro Journal
Fm: Jay Truesdale 72176,3565
To: DENIS CHARTRAND 72561,2714 (X)


Funny you should ask that.  I just called them last week on the same subject. 
The guy on the other end seemed really busy so I didn't press too hard for
details and the guy I needed to talk to was out.  In a nutshell '68 Micro is in
the process of being sold (couldn't find out to who) which according to this
person could take up to six weeks.  At that time it is planned to mail out
letters of explanation to all subscribers.  CPI is going keep selling software
(such that it is).

Personally I figure that my money is gone and if I see a letter or a future
issue, great, but I'm not gonna be holding my breath in the meantime.

Maybe someone else can call them and get more info?



#: 7864 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  19:28:48
Sb: #UniFlex
Fm: BILL ONEILL 72667,1052
To:  76703,376 (X)

        Does anyone know where I can find information on UniFLEX?  I have a GMX
MICRO20 (a 68020 system) running UniFLEX and I get the feeling from looking
around CIS that I'm the only one running this operating system. It's a shame
too, because it is a fine OS.

(Am I realy alone?)



There are 2 Replies.

#: 7865 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  19:40:56
Sb: #7864-#UniFlex
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: BILL ONEILL 72667,1052 (X)

Bill - I believe Steve Sampson, who hangs around here once in a while, also
runs (or has run) UniFlex.  I'll see if I can dig him up.  TSC is based only
about 25 miles from me, but I've never stopped by.  They advertise once in a
great while for programmers in the local papers.

There may be one or two others.  They all seem to like it a lot.

best - kevin

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7871 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  20:28:23
Sb: #7865-UniFlex
Fm: BILL ONEILL 72667,1052
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

        THanks Kevin.  Any contact with others, at all, would be a great help.

Bill

#: 7881 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  22:25:16
Sb: #7865-UniFlex
Fm: Steve Sampson 75136,626
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Mail rcvd, tnx, Steve.  Yep still have that box collecting dust over there :-)

#: 7883 S1/General Interest
    28-Oct-90  22:39:36
Sb: #7864-#UniFlex
Fm: Steve Sampson 75136,626
To: BILL ONEILL 72667,1052 (X)

I still have a GMX 020 myself running uniflex.  Me and another guy used it to
run a radar simulator until the funds ran out.  We replaced it with a pdp-11 so
the programmers could finish the project under cost (software costs more than
hardware, they KNEW pdp-11 RTX).  Anyway the simulator bit the dust and parts
of it are on diplay at the local museam (god I can't spell that word
tonight...)  I inherited (sp?) the GMX.  Since the GMX didn't have a screen
editor I always used my PC to edit, then upload to the GMX.  This got old real
fast.  The only thing I didn't like about this board was it's software memory
management routine which limits a task to 512 kb.  If you compile compress with
debug on, poof - too big.  Stuff like that.  I liked it because it swapped. 
That way I could have more procs than memory.  The ram disk was neat.  Good
software for it (C Compiler, Assembler).  I always half-assed everything on it,
because of the screen editor lack.  I just got tired of it and couldn't break
down and learn the big public domain editor (what's its name?? late I guess). 
I initially had it talking to killer in dallas with a uucp I built, but it
wouldn't work locally.  Mark Griffith really has done alot of work with it and
I intend to see his source fixes/features.  Oh by the way the USAF spent 20
million on a "real" simulator.  Then they spent another 20 million getting it
to work right.  I still don't understand business!  I've put mine in a PC Box
with a 20 meg fast HD.  How you?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7917 S1/General Interest
    30-Oct-90  15:28:38
Sb: #7883-#UniFlex
Fm: BILL ONEILL 72667,1052
To: Steve Sampson 75136,626 (X)


[B
        Mine was a make work project for a place I used to work at.  It was put
together as a prototype workstation to sell to the universities around here. 
GMX were working on a 68030 board with MMU, 4Mb ram, 12 ports
 and a VM version of UniFlex.  They also had a Hi-res colour graphics board in
the works.  And, at the time, there was a roumour they were working a deal with
ATT to get Unix onto this thing they called a Twingle (?).  The prototype was
put together out a Micro-20, a 40Mb disk and one of those verticle PC type
cabinets [D [D [D (oops, this is not edt, sorry about that) Anyway, it looked
pretty sharp and had the people at the University of Toronto interested.  But,
they ahd to see it with Unix and the graphics board before they made any
promisses.  Well, the unix never came through, and they stopped making the
68030 board as fast as it had started.  I ended up with the Micro-20.
        Bye the way, TSC has a full screen editor for UniFlex (called USE) for
about $150.  It works pretty good.  These days I dont do much with the GMX
except use as space heater.  I once wrote some graphics routines for it (in
anticipation of the GMX board) and used them to study the Mandebrot set in some
detail using a HP plotter and a Atari ST520 as output devices.  But lately my
intrest in it seems to be increasing.  For some unknown reason I feel like
writing a token ring network driver to use through a serial port on it (?). 
Its a good machine and I hate to see it collect dust but there does'nt seem to
much intrest in UniFlex out there.  Anyhow, tahnks for the reply.  At least now
I know I'm not the only one who has used one these.

Bill

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7919 S1/General Interest
    30-Oct-90  18:07:14
Sb: #7917-#UniFlex
Fm: Steve Sampson 75136,626
To: BILL ONEILL 72667,1052 (X)

I'm working on interfacing my radios (Amateur) using TCP/IP by KA9Q with the
box.  The code originally is almost unreadable.  I'm a very simple man and
levels on levels in queues drives me beserk.  That will be fun.  Hey if you're
interested in any of the code I ported or wrote, let me know.  I put together a
Cron (with the help of DDJ magazine :-)) and some other obscure stuff.  The
uucico is probably pretty ugly to look at, but could use an expert going over
it.  I tried to make that good enough for binary transfers, but don't know if
it worked.  I just started a Unix Administrator job so now can probably test it
where it was impossible before.  I'm in Oklahoma if I forgot to mention that. 
My full time job is AWACS so if I disappear again I'll be over in the land of
sand...

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7925 S1/General Interest
    31-Oct-90  10:33:29
Sb: #7919-UniFlex
Fm: BILL ONEILL 72667,1052
To: Steve Sampson 75136,626 (X)

        I live in an obscure little town called Bracebridge and work for a firm
in Toronto (Canada).  Most of my work is producing report generators and
reporting support systems for auto manufacturers.  It's really boring stuff. 
The only good thing about it is the company I work for gave me my own little
VAX to play with (VAXstation 2000).  That and the fact I work from home are the
only things currently keeping me in this line of work. This stuff is so boring
I get mentally exausted by the end of the just from the effort of keeping at
it.  By then I dont't want to see another computer till I have to.  This is the
reason i gave up playing with computers as a hobby.  That was far more
interesting.  Now I spend most of my spare time working on the house or making
furniture.  It seems that my personal life has taken a very 'anti tecno' turn. 
I also enjoy playing trombone with the local concert band and listening to
classical music.  Things will get hectic soon with the arrival of my second
child as my wife is due in three weeks.  Did you say you have a port of UUCP?
It might be worth while to see if the U. of T. physics department would be
willing to send the news they receive.  If you know of such a beast let me know
where I can pick it up.

later...

Bill OPe/exit

#: 7901 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    29-Oct-90  20:57:36
Sb: Patches
Fm: Greg A. Jandl 72677,1634
To: all

I'm curious as to who uploaded the Disto version of the clock patch to fix the
IRQ* problems.  There are several people over on Delphi that need/want it and
do not have accounts here.  I'd like to upload it there, but need the author's
permission.  Thanks!

Oh..I forgot who wanted the cchdscsi.ar file, but I have it if you want me to
ask the author over on Delphi if I can post it here.  It works quite nicely! 
I've been using it for some time on a CC-3 512k, w/SC-II & 4in1. Very smooth. 
Let me know & sorry I forgot who you were.  I'd go back and look, but it co$t$
a bit to much over here!! <grin>

 -:- Greg (72677,1634)

#: 7918 S4/MIDI and Music
    30-Oct-90  17:06:05
Sb: Orch-90 CC
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: All

Are there drivers for the Orch-90 Stereo Paks to be used under Lvl II?

Are there hardware mods required for the Paks?

Thanks,

Lee



#: 7921 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    30-Oct-90  22:34:58
Sb: #RSDOS2OS9
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Anyone

   I downloaded Zack Sessions'  Zoom1.ar & Zoom2.ar  fractal vef files only to
find that he must have used a HD when creating them.  Since I don't have one, I
couldn't use them and stored 'em away.   Along comes the 1 meg upgrade with the
possibility of having an enormous ramdisk, enuf to de-arc & run Zoom from RAM.
   One hitch- I have them stored on RSDOS disks, expecting to transfer to OS9
when the time came but found DOS2OR9 didn't want to handle the very large
files. (Zoom2.ar takes 56 grans).  I was able to modify Dosor9 to transfer
Zoom1.ar but not Zoom2.ar (produces FILE TOO FRAGMENTED  error).  Any way to
modify Dosor9  or would another transfer utility do the job (which)?
   Btw, the 1M upgrade is great!  Not only did Zoom1 run well, but I'm using
the bigger rdisk to better advantage unPAKing or deARcing other new downloads;
and finally getting around to better organize &  sort stray files on scads of
unrelated floppies by copying them temporarily to the rdisk.  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7922 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    31-Oct-90  00:45:08
Sb: #7921-RSDOS2OS9
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - I take it you changed (or got the fix) to DOSOR9 to handle >64K files?
Okay, then for the fragmented file, I'd just copy it to a freshly formatted
RSDOS disk first.  See if that works.

PS: glad you like the 1-meg!

#: 7924 S1/General Interest
    31-Oct-90  08:25:54
Sb: RSDOS2OS9
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Line # 1192 in DOSOR9 reports TOO FRAGMENTED if  LEN(S1$)>250.  I had already
tried a copy to a fresh disk with the same results.  I believe that's the
section which calculates LSN (above my head anyway).  All what I did to get
Zoom1.ar to transfer was to add a line 2326: IF NN>32767 THEN
NN=NN-32768:GOTO2326.   (ZOOM1.AR=82432 bytes,  ZOOM2.AR=127616 bytes)
  I should mention that the ramdisk referred to was sent to me by Dennis Skala
(apparently a pre-release) since I had expressed interest in a large rdisk just
as he was putting the finishing touches on it.  Works on OS9 & MV (ram.8k
worked only on OS9) up to 800k!   -ph-  

#: 7932 S4/MIDI and Music
    01-Nov-90  06:05:21
Sb: #MIDI Query
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Lester Sands 70135,430 (X)

Les, I have a TX81Z and have downloaded Bill Jackson's EDITOR.BAS with related
files.  I am using a Rulaford MIDI.PAK and enjoying the TX81Z with both LYRA
and UltiMusE.  Am I correct in believing his editor should download through the
MIDI cable?  I have been unsuccessful in performing a download from the TX81Z. 
Is the MIDI.PAK not compatible with his EDITOR or TXDUMP code?  Any advice or
guidance would be appreciated.  I have installed the newer version of LYRA you
sent me and it is working fine from floppy disks. I am using OWLWare's disk
basic which is apparently quite different from B&B's RGB Basic, so I suspect
one of my soon-to-make purchases will be RGB to explore its mysteries.  Thanks
again for your fine products and support to computer music.   Ches



There is 1 Reply.

#: 7948 S4/MIDI and Music
    02-Nov-90  23:27:33
Sb: #7932-#MIDI Query
Fm: Lester Hands 70135,430
To: Ches Looney 73016,1336 (X)

Ches, I don't have a TX81Z but am aware of Bill's editor for it. As far as I
know, the MIDI pak from Rulaford should work without difficulty with it. The
only other MIDI interfaces that won't work for sure are the Colorchestra and
the Intercomp interface. Glad to hear that the newer Lyra is working well for
you! Welcome to the wonderful computer merry go round that keeps you buying new
products just to keep up with the times!

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7955 S4/MIDI and Music
    03-Nov-90  06:10:39
Sb: #7948-MIDI Query
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Lester Hands 70135,430

Thanks for response, Les.

#: 7933 S4/MIDI and Music
    01-Nov-90  06:07:46
Sb: MIDI Query
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Bill Jackson 72737,2254

Bill, I have a TX81Z and have downloaded your EDITOR.BAS with related files.  I
am using a Rulaford MIDI.PAK and enjoying the TX81Z with both LYRA and
UltiMusE.  Am I correct in believing your editor should download through the
MIDI cable?  I have been unsuccessful in performing a download from the TX81Z. 
Is the MIDI.PAK not compatible with your EDITOR or TXDUMP code?  Any advice or
guidance would be appreciated.  Thanks, Ches.



#: 7936 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  20:43:44
Sb: #RSDOS2OS9
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Kev,
  I looked again at my copy of DOSOR9 and it's dated 1988. Is there a newer
version?
  On another subject, when ident shows some modules have incorrect module
header, is there any way to correct this?  If these modules are merged ahead of
other correct modules, the latter will not show up in the MDIR readout.   -ph-

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7937 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  21:13:51
Sb: #7936-RSDOS2OS9
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

To correct a module header, you'd need some notion of what it's supposed to
look like--e.g. what kind of module it's supposed to be, where something that
looks like the module name is, and so forth.  Once you have that, you can use
something like DED to stuff in the values you think should be there--and update
the parity check and CRC if need be.

That's dangerous work, though--no telling what changes you missed!  So, my
advice to you would be, if a module doesn't make it through ident (unless it's
something you've changed in a way that you understand, and forgot to update the
CRC on), don't try to fix it, get a clean version.

#: 7940 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    01-Nov-90  21:47:00
Sb: #7936-#RSDOS2OS9
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul - depends on exactly the ident error you get.

One thing I see sometimes from people is this happening: they've merged a
module that has junk on its end, in with a set of others.  Perhaps they
downloaded the module and it has xmodem padding, etc.  Dunno.  But yes ident
will falter when this happens.

Try loading the module itself, then saving it back out (do you have a Save
command?).... that'll strip off the junk.  Others here may have different ways
of doing this. - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7962 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  11:54:07
Sb: #7940-RSDOS2OS9
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Yep, that did the trick.  Module loaded in, resaved to disk, ident now checks
ok.   thx.   -ph

#: 7938 S4/MIDI and Music
    01-Nov-90  21:15:16
Sb: Upload Query
Fm: Ches Looney 73016,1336
To: Wayne Day 76703,376 (X)

Wayne, I have just uploaded a joystick hi-lo resolution modification suggestion
to DL4.  Please review and see if diagram is legible.  You have my proxy to
change DL or delay display of file until document is made better.  Your
comments are most welcome.  Ches.

#: 7949 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  00:04:09
Sb: #"DOS"
Fm: REX GOODE 73777,3663
To: ALL

 TODAY I WENT INTO A RADIO SHACK STORE TO INQUIRE ABOUT OS9. WHILE THERE, I
DISCOVERED THAT COCO3'S WERE ON SALE FOR $99.95, SO I BOUGHT OS9 LEVEL 2 AND A
COCO3. I AM USING A MULTIPAK INTERFACE, A DISK DRIVE THAT I BOUGHT BACK WHEN I
HAD MY COCO1. WHEN I FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS IN MY OS9 MANUAL AND TYPE "DOS" AT
THE

"OK" PROMPT, I GET A "SN? ERROR" I HAD AN "OS9LOAD" PROGRAM THAT I USE TO RUN
"OS9" PROGRAMS FROM DISK EXTENDED BASIC. WHAT DO I HAVE TO DO TO GET OS9 TO
BOOT BY TYPING "DOS"?
 REX

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7951 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  01:52:36
Sb: #7949-"DOS"
Fm: James Jones 76257,562
To: REX GOODE 73777,3663 (X)

A recent enough Disk BASIC ROM to contain the "DOS" command--I don't think the
very early ones had them.

#: 7952 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  02:19:51
Sb: #7949-#"DOS"
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: REX GOODE 73777,3663 (X)

Hi Rex.  If your coco comes up and says "disk basic 2.0" (or similar) then you
don't have the DOS command... which came on later disk controllers.

The manual should have a small program to type in which'll do the same thing as
DOS does, tho.  I'll try to spot where it is in there, if someone else doesn't
have it around offhand. - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7963 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  14:20:31
Sb: #7952-#"DOS"
Fm: REX GOODE 73777,3663
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Thanks kev,
 I have the right program via my D.L.Logo manual. I can get OS9 up and running,
but now I am having a different problem. I have the Speech/Sound cartridge, but
it doesn't seem to work in OS9. Any help for that particular problem?
 Rex

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7965 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  14:28:12
Sb: #7963-#"DOS"
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: REX GOODE 73777,3663 (X)

Rex - the problem is that the S/SC was made to work at 1Mhz, not the 2Mhz that
L-II runs at.  This is fixable with a small hack.  See SSPAK.AR in Lib 10, I
believe (also read BESTOF.TXT, which altho is old now, still lists quite a few
things you'll need or want as a new user).

(For example, if you don't have it, you need AR09.BIN from Lib 9 to dearchive
most files here).

Any problems, just yell!  best - kev

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7967 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  14:42:47
Sb: #7965-"DOS"
Fm: REX GOODE 73777,3663
To: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227 (X)

Hey kev,
 I got the same answer about the S/SC over on the CoCo forum. Thanks. My
problem now is "how do I get the fix downloaded?" I am writing this message on
an IBM-AT using YAM. The only telecom programs I have for CoCo are Color Compac
and the telecom feature of the Stereo Music cartridge. I can never get Color
Compac to download anything, and the Stereo Music cartridge will download
anything you want, but when you save it to file, saves it as if it were an
Orc90 file. Does OS9 have any telecom programs that come with?
 Rex

#: 7957 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  08:28:10
Sb: #Deskmate 3 Hardcoded?
Fm: Bill Henderson 72215,341
To: All

Deskmate 3 is hardcoded to work only on TERM. I want to have it operate on
another window running a VDG Screen.

Can anyone tell me what to patch to do this?

Thanks!

  Bill Henderson

There are 2 Replies.

#: 7958 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  09:04:55
Sb: #7957-Deskmate 3 Hardcoded?
Fm: Zack Sessions 76407,1524
To: Bill Henderson 72215,341

I think there is a patch in the library on this. It also provides means to run
Deskmate3 apps from a GShell icon.

Zack

#: 7964 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    03-Nov-90  14:22:38
Sb: #7957-Deskmate 3 Hardcoded?
Fm: Kevin Darling (UG Pres) 76703,4227
To: Bill Henderson 72215,341

Bill - sure. Read DESK.SCR in Lib 10.  Also see MDESKP.AR and MULTID.AR for
running from Gshell.

#: 7959 S3/Languages
    03-Nov-90  10:24:07
Sb: #6809 make?
Fm: Ken Drexler 75126,3427
To: All

Help. I an looking for a copy of the 6809 version of Microware's make. I have
tried to get the Development System from Radio Shack and Computer Plus. Both
report that the product has been discontinued and out of stock.

I have about 250K worth of a Basic09 attorney's time recording system which I
want to rewrite in c. The program will numerous modules which are compiled in
various configurations -- just the job for make and a bear without it. (Also I
want to be able to move the source code to an OSK machine which I have and make
it there using the OSK make.)

Can any one suggest a source for 6809 make? Now that RS and MSC have checked
out of supporting OS-9, I am out of ideas.

Ken Drexler  75126,3427

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7970 S3/Languages
    03-Nov-90  18:25:53
Sb: #7959-6809 make?
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Ken Drexler 75126,3427

Ken -

If you can't  find the DEV PAK make, Carl Kreider also has a version in the OS9
UG lib. Spawned from the same concept, although the options, defaults, and
grammar may be a bit different.

Also - check DDJFORUM ... they have sources for a PD make, I believe. USENET
sees PD MAKEs frequently too.

Pete

#: 7968 S7/Telecommunications
    03-Nov-90  17:22:52
Sb: #Terminal Program
Fm: REX GOODE 73777,3663
To: All

 Does anyone have a communications program they can send me so I can get
started using this forum from my OS9 and CoCo3? I'd be willing to pay for the
media or the program if it's reasonable and works. My IBM AT at work is
drudgery. My CoCo3 with OS9 is complete fun. I tried Tandy's Color Compac from
Disk Basic, but it just doesn't work for downloading.
 Rex

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7972 S7/Telecommunications
    03-Nov-90  21:13:04
Sb: #7968-Terminal Program
Fm: Randy Wilson 71561,756
To: REX GOODE 73777,3663 (X)


Rex,

   Email me your address, and I'll send you a "CARE package". Oh, better
include your system specs. (i.e. drive size/type, 128 or 512 memory, modem
type, etc.)

Randy

#: 7976 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Nov-90  03:25:52
Sb: #7581-hard drive
Fm: Chris Burke 72240,304
To: LUTE MULLENIX 70721,2230 (X)

Hi Lute!

You'll have to use versions of the DISTO device drivers that properly account
for slot switching.  I have versions of the ACIA and printer driver available. 
Otherwise, no problem as long as you use a Multi-PAK

Chris Burke

#: 7977 S6/Applications
    04-Nov-90  06:40:11
Sb: #DynaForm woes
Fm: Mike Passer 72750,420
To: All

Hello!
 
     I've been using DynaStar for quite some time now, and really enjoy
editing with it.   However, up 'til now, I've never had need to _underline_
anything!
 
     Whatever I do, I can't seem to get DynaStar (v. 3.4) to underline
properly.  When I defined ".UL" and ".UE" in df.init with the values for
the IBM mode of a Tandy DMP 132, the printer switched to proportional
on the first occurence of an underline command.  When I switched to
Tandy mode on the printer (and to Tandy values in df.init), nothing at
all happened when an underline command was encountered.  When I tried
to get rid of the ".UL" and ".UE" altogether and let DynaForm try to
do it with cursor controls (as in the manual), I got underscore characters
_over_ what I was trying to underline.
 
    Anyone else had this problem?  Anyone overcome it?  I'd appreciate
any insight anyone out there has.
 
Thanks,
Mike Passer
[72750,420]


There is 1 Reply.

#: 7981 S6/Applications
    04-Nov-90  10:41:14
Sb: #7977-#DynaForm woes
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: Mike Passer 72750,420 (X)

Mike -

The approach I used to use was to use an external text formatter. I used 'text'
by Computerware, but there's Mroff here in the libs that should be able to do
pretty much the same thing.

Pete

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7983 S6/Applications
    04-Nov-90  10:47:58
Sb: #7981-#DynaForm woes
Fm: Mike Passer 72750,420
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Pete,
 
So there's nothing I'm doing wrong with DynaForm -- it's just flaky?  I
have mroff and thought about going that route, but it's disappointing that
I can't do it the _simple_ way... but, then... I could rename mroff's
module name to Df, then I could still use the Print option from within
DynaStar... hmmm!
 
Thanks!
Mike Passer

#: 7978 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Nov-90  09:49:14
Sb: #BASIC09 DISK
Fm: REX GOODE 73777,3663
To: ALL

 I SUSPECT THAT MY "BOOT/CONFIG/BASIC09" DISK IS BAD. AFTER BOOTING WITH OS9
SYSTEM MASTER, I PUT THE BASIC DISK IN AND KEY, "BASIC09". IT RETURNS AN ERROR
#216. THEN I DO "PXD" TO SEE WHICH DIRECTORY IS THE EXECUTION DIR AND GET ERROR
#214. THEN I TRY A "CHX CMDS" AND GET ERROR #244. THIS HAPPENS ON BOTH MY
BACKUP AND ORIGINAL. ANY IDEAS?
 REX

There is 1 Reply.

#: 7982 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Nov-90  10:44:30
Sb: #7978-BASIC09 DISK
Fm: Pete Lyall 76703,4230
To: REX GOODE 73777,3663

The #244 sounds bad, but the rest are explainable. Whenever you remove/replace
your system/data disks, make sure you chx or chx to the disk's paths,
regardless whether or not they're the same name (i.e. chx /d0/cmds, chd
/d1/woof, etc.) This is because it updates the LOCATION information as to where
that directory is on the diskette.

In the case of Basic09, try typing the full pathname, i.e.:

  /d1/basic09

Pete

#: 7979 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Nov-90  09:50:31
Sb: Orch-90
Fm: Lee Veal 74726,1752
To: All


Are there OS-9 Level 2 device drivers for the Orch-90 Stereo Pak?

Are there hardware mods required for the Pak to work at the 2MHz speed?

Thanks,

Lee



#: 7984 S1/General Interest
    04-Nov-90  10:54:45
Sb: Items for sale
Fm: Dan Robins 73007,2473
To: All

You might want to check out LIB 14 for the file DAN.SAL . Did a little spring
cleaning (yah...I know, it's almost winter!..grin), and have some spare stuff
available for sale.

Dan Robins

#: 7985 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    04-Nov-90  12:31:30
Sb: HD Drives
Fm: Chris Bergerson 72227,127
To: Kevin Darling

Please refresh my memory, Kevin... are 3.5", 1.4 meg floppy drives useable with 
a Coco III/Level II?  I think the answer is no, but if this is the case, why
not?
Also, if they are unuseable as 1.4 meg drives, are most of these drives
jumperable to 720K mode?

#: 7986 S14/misc/info/Soapbox
    04-Nov-90  12:41:29
Sb: TC70 AND MM/1 CONCERNS
Fm: RANDY JANSSEN 73340,3212
To: all

Dear Folks,
    I've been a COCO type for some time and I'm really interested in the TC70 
and the MM/1.  Has anybody got one yet?  Are they all they're cracked up to be?
I'm REALLY concerned about software. Neat games and "multimedia" software
(whatever that is) are fine, but what about the basics?  A good mouse driven
word processor, draw program, spreadsheet?  The package from Microware looks
really nice but is WAY to expensive for us nickel/dime types.  I really want to
buy one of these for OS-9 compatibility and speed (I do a lot of matrix math in
grad school), but I'm not jumping until I'm SURE
 it will do the basics.  It would also be very helpful if it could read/write
MS-DOS and Mac disks and be compatible with the file structures of some of the
more popular current programs.
    Any opinions from anybody on this?

Randy Janssen 73340.3212

#: 7987 S6/Applications
    04-Nov-90  12:56:47
Sb: #Overchoice - DOS world
Fm: Art Doyle 71565,262
To: Pete Lyall 76703,4230 (X)

Hi Pete!

I need some sound advice from someone you can reason along strict engineering
cost/benefit criteria - someone like you.

I require a means of demonstrating a Dos program which is capable of running
several types of electronic instruments under RS-232 or GPIB (IEEE 488.2). This
product would be portable and must support either CGA or EGA graphics and I am
skeptical that a hard-drive could survive the "banging around" the unit would
receive under field use.

A floppy based lap-top can be had for <$700, a 80286 plasma lunch-box goes for
< $1500 and a 80386 machine would exceed $2400... Given the fact that the 80386
unit could run DOS,UNIX or OS-9000 - could you express some OPINIONS as to
which option would be most appropriate? After 3+ hours of scanning the
"Computer Shopper" I am thoroughly confused. This PC market is a real mess. How
can one tell if the product is truly capatible with the standard IBM system?

                                 Bewildered,


                                     Art



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