From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Cobalt         
Date & Time: 05/28/90 21:56:03
Message Number  5300

It's rather easy to hold a potluck in a chemistry room.  Just have
people bring food into the room.  That's it.  Why have it in there?
I suppose it would be easy to heat stuff, what with all those bunsen
burners [lemme tell ya, it does wonders on fondue!].  And the Chem.
room may have been the only one with a fridge and oven and stove.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Future III     
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:01:06
Message Number  5301

Me, I liked the ZZ Top bit, and the Frisbee Pie plate.  And the wake-up
juice.
 
"That's just a reflex."
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: No more skirts!
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:04:22
Message Number  5302

I'd rather deal with a fraggle than a smurf.  Fraggles have neat hair,
smurfs wear dorky hates.  Fraggles also sing better songs.
 
"Papa smurf, papa smurf, Gargamels got a MX missle."
The end of those wretched blue excuses for ink.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Arnie          
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:13:42
Message Number  5303

Err, Saturday is O.K. with me.  I'm not sure which theatre (General 
Cinema or AMC) it is at, since both theatres have signs up, and 
both player trailers for the film.  If it's at AMC, midnight would be
good.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: skirts         
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:28:34
Message Number  5304

I believe Sigourney Weaver was contracted to appear in Alien III, but I
don't know whether or not she's starring.  I haven't heard anything
about the project since the writers' strike in 1988, during which
William Gibson had stopped working on the script.
   Incidentally, Sam Hamm (scripter for BATMAN) also stopped working on
the second draft of ol' Bats during that strike, and the "co-writer"
of the screenplay in the credits never worked with Hamm at all -- he was
essentially a "scab."  A lot of the boneheaded ideas in the final
version as compared to the original screenplay, most notably making the
Joker the murderer of Wayne's parents and the removal of Wayne's more
psychotic elements -- along with some of his characterization -- came
from this co-writer, who had a decidedly more Hollywood bent than Hamm
does.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:33:20
Message Number  5305

Xanadu was a song by ELO, sung by Olivia Newton-John.  It was about a
divinely ordained roller skating rink and had nothing to do with the
poem "Kubla Khan", despite what this weird paper about rock versions of
Colerige poems I read at New College claimed.  The paper complained
that the song was really bad and had nothing to do with the poem.  It
WAS a fairly lame song (beastly complicated music that you wouldn't be
able to tell by listening to it, but the lyrics, er, weren't), but it
wasn't SUPPOSED to have anything to do with the poem.  I hate it when
people misinterpret classic literature by soft rock/country crossover
artists from Australia, especially when they're really pretty soft
rock/country crossover artists from Australia.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Gadget         
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:40:34
Message Number  5306

> "Moss grows on the north side of arc welding, so I must be heading
> west...I think."-Gadget
 
Quoting Gadget?  Don't tell me you're ANOTHER one who wants to sleep
with her?  You sick... furverts.
 
Of course, I should talk.  I had a dream within a dream last night.  I
woke up from one dream to discover I was lying on my futon (footon?
footun? gray mattress-like thing) and Tyler, Dan, Bart and Wratt -- who
were all, inexplicably, spending the night in Turtle's living room with
me -- were all up and talking.  This, too, was a dream; I woke up from
it a moment later to find myself lying on my futon with Tyler, Dan,
Bart and Wratt all asleep around me.  This, however, was reality, or
what passed for it.  The original dream was gone by this point, but I
could remember only two vague impressions from the top level of the
dream: Gadget looks really cute without any clothes, and she's really
sexually frustrated.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:46:02
Message Number  5307

> Libertarianism is usually considered more right-wing than left wing...
 
Depends on who you ask.  Libertarianism runs the gamut from Abbie
Hoffman to Atilla the Hun, as its political philosophy isn't inherently
connected to the subjects liberals and conservatives usually find to
disagree on.  It's "conservative" in the sense that liberals are usually
presumed to like big, intrusive government and conservatives aren't,
but the Reagan era seems to have shown that conservatives can be just as
good as making government big -- they just concentrate on different
parts.  People on	 either side can come to the conclusion that a minimal
government in ALL areas might, in the long run, be better than a huge
one, regardless of whether or not more is spent on defense or welfare.
Those people are libertarians, or potential libertarians.  You are
quite likely to find libertarians who are pro-choice and anti-gun
control, which is something "conventional" liberals and conservatives
are often confounded by.
   Of course, since you're unlikely to see this message, sending it to
you is kind of pointless, isn't it?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:52:49
Message Number  5308

This is something I'd /heartily/ agree with.  If you stick your nose
into a subject in what would sure as heck SEEM to be a serious fashion,
especially if you do it in a manner directly attacking another BBS user
(or his messages, or even general beliefs), you have to be prepared for
people to take you seriously.  Coming on after the fact and saying,
"Gosh, it's sure nice to see all these people posting, you weren't
really taking me literally, were you?" is, if nothing else, kind of
odd.  This nebulous concept of "tone" DOES come through in writing, and
if you're writing a fairly long message on	 a fairly touchy subject --
especially if you're being critical of somebody else, for Pete's sake --
making sure you're saying it in the way you intend it is only logical.
A cynical person would say that a "ha-ha, I wasn't serious" post is just
a way to back down and try to save face after you've decided that you
were either wrong or came across a lot more strongly than you had
intended, but don't want to apologize for fear it'll make you look like
you're changing your position.  But, not being a cynical person in the
least, I wouldn't think that.  Ever.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: StarTrekkies   
Date & Time: 05/28/90 22:59:10
Message Number  5309

Orcs are short, too.  Depending on who you ask. Some books and games
have them at dwarf size; others have them up to 7 feet tall.  The world,
even in the realm of Generic Fantasy Adventure <tm>, does not revolve
around products from TSR.  You will eventually learn that plots and
ideas that make great Dungeons & Dragons adventures make kind of bad
stories if you're at all concerned with things like, oh, character
development, originality, etc.  Hell, even Weis & Hickman left the
realm of AD&D.  They still need to work on one, JUST ONE, book that's a
cyberpunk sf novel or some such, but the stuff that they're doing now
in things like DRAGON WING is stuff that TSR would never do.  DRAGON
WING is reasonably well-written from a technical standpoint, and from
an imagination and characterization standpoint, it's pretty damn
impressive, even in spite of kludgy narration problems.
   ...of course, it's still in a lot of trouble when compared to
anything by Orson Scott Card, or even Barbara Hambly.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: ...            
Date & Time: 05/28/90 23:09:23
Message Number  5310

> Now it is!  :)
 
Yes, so I see.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ///---         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 02:50:36
Message Number  5311

That was a joke, Son. The John Birch society is a hyper-paranoid,
hyper-conservative organization that's centered around a blinding
hatred of the Soviet Union. They constantly publish propaganda
explaining why we are actually at war with the Reds, and why Commies
and liberals should be executed or driven out of the country. Anyway,
they are named after a U.S. soldier (John Birch) who was accidentally
killed by Soviet troops at the end of World War II; the John Birchers
claim that he was actually the first casualty of WWIII rather than
the last casulty of WWII. All in all, a remarkable bunch of
people--and I mean that in the worst possible way.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THRUD               
Subject: neckwear       
Date & Time: 05/29/90 02:58:06
Message Number  5312

>jeez you can turn a fraze...
 
Frazers on full, Captain! We'll fry the friggin' Ferengi to
a frazzle.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Not God...     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 03:02:34
Message Number  5314

>You are sick.
 
That's one of my better traits, too.
          --A sick Turtle
You forgot warped, perverted, bad-tempered, irritable, inconsistent,
incoherent, inattentive, unmotivated, stubborn, lazy, smug, unethical,
irreverent, anarchistic, disrespectful, obstinant, and irreligious.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 03:10:45
Message Number  5315

>...but atleast my fellow classmates...don't light themselves on fire!
 
No, they just engage in psychological torture and vicious, maliciously
sadistic activities for no readily apparant reason.
 
Don't /even/ try to out-nasty me...you know damn well what I'm talking
about.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 05/29/90 03:15:27
Message Number  5316

I was referring to the Rush song entitled "Xanadu," which /is/
related to the poem "Kubla Khan." (Pthpth!) The Rush song, in
addition to having a connection with the poem, is lyrically and
musically more interesting than the Olivia Newton-John song,
has higher technical production standards, and doesn't even
mention anything resembling a darned skating rink.
 
ONJ is prettier than Geddy Lee, though.
 
                    --A Rush Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: -ALL USERS-         
Subject: A/R            
Date & Time: 05/29/90 03:21:18
Message Number  5317

Well, the system crashed *twice* yesterday (05/28), once in the wee
small hours of the morning and once again at midnight. We've survived
with the loss of only three messages; on the other hand, the system was
unavailable for several hours yesterday because of the problems.
 
Anyone know where I can find some RELIABLE 80-track floppy drives
cheap?? These IBM drives have /got/ to go.
 
                   --An annoyed Turtle
 
Now if we take this beautiful crystal goblet, and drop it from the
top of this biiiiiiig building, we'll have Alter Reality's message
base scattered all about the ground...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/29/90 06:31:30
Message Number  5318

> Yes, but ST:TNG has no relation whatsoever to the original Star Trek
> books...
 
  Where'd you get that idea? It's wrong.. WHY?? They happen in the same
universe with the same Federation, and some of the same people.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: moral          
Date & Time: 05/29/90 06:35:00
Message Number  5319

  Well, the movie's point (BTTF III) was about how Marty's life would be
much better since he learned not to let it bother him when someone calls
him chicken. I was thinking in a larger scale, that the Romulans do 
things that provoke the Federation in that manner, and they shouldn't 
act on them...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Future III     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 06:38:12
Message Number  5320

> and the wake-up juice.
 
  I loved how the audience groaned when the saw the stuff being poured
down his throat.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ...            
Date & Time: 05/29/90 09:20:15
Message Number  5321

:)  
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not God...     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 09:23:13
Message Number  5322

....YOU forgot harasshole.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 09:23:54
Message Number  5323

Bastard from hell!  I can out nasty you anyday...admit it.  I'm a 
cpmplete bitch with no heart at all.  I also have no morals, right?  
I am nastier than thee...ask my mum!
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: RUFUS               
Subject: skirts         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 09:35:24
Message Number  5324

Yeah, I loved that line, I've got a friend who'd I'd be /really/ 
nervous driving with sober... He hasn't had any practice!
 
"Trust me, I got an /angle/"{{
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: RUFUS               
Subject: No more skirts!
Date & Time: 05/29/90 09:38:59
Message Number  5325

I would like to see Gargamel /and/ the smurfs drowning in thier own 
stupidity... (what does stupidity taste like?)
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: StarTrekkies   
Date & Time: 05/29/90 09:48:14
Message Number  5326

> ...of course, it's still in a lot of trouble when compared to anything
> by Orson Scott Card, or even Barbera Hambly.
 
Now isn't that a little unfair, comparing any Mortal to Card? Sheesh, 
Barbara Hambly ranks as a gifted-demigod herself, How can mortals
compete.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: A/R            
Date & Time: 05/29/90 09:53:19
Message Number  5327

I'll pitch a 1.2Meg drive your way after the summer, If I can remember
to P'req it (Parent Request) Leaves you with a summer of IBM 
manufactured Hardware hell! (Sheesh, at least I'm smart enough not to
use any of their disk drives.)
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/29/90 13:01:46
Message Number  5330

Star Wars is also in the same universe......So is Dr. Who....They
have no plot relation, and they don't refer to one another...
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/29/90 13:50:20
Message Number  5331

Dr. Who is not in the same 'universe' the definitions of time, space, 
etc are different in Dr Who, and Star Wars gives no indication of being
in the same Universe, except for the placement as "A long, long time, 
ago, in a Galaxy far, far away." 
 
What Beatle meant by 'universe' was similar to the "Marvel Universe" the
"Greyhawk Universe" etc. It's not the technical definition, but it's in
common use.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Gadget         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 15:15:17
Message Number  5332

Your weird!
 
Ack!
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: moral          
Date & Time: 05/29/90 15:20:22
Message Number  5333

>how Marty's life would be much better since he learned not to let it
>bother him when someone calls him chicken.
 
Oh, so this has nothing to do with ZZ Top promoting galactic peace
with their new album?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Once again...  
Date & Time: 05/29/90 15:33:29
Message Number  5335

|No, it's not Deja Vu folks, I just took off the tail ending [he he].
     I sit for a few seconds trying to assimilate the flood of
information Sam presented me.  "Lesse, the golf course owner wasn't
real happy about the Harrier landing on the eigth, but I don't think he
was that angry" I mumble to myself. "What?" Sam prompts.  "Nothing,
just mumbling to myself, trying to figure out who's pissed off at me." 
I run through my mental list of recent assignments, crossing out all
the uneventful ones.  Sam waves her hand in front of my eyes and says
"Hello, anyone in there?"  I shake my head, responding with: "Oh, just
thinking.  It must be IBM.  They sent a nasty letter to the company
blaming me for the destruction of the only existing 986 machine, and
calling for my death.  IBM is fairly nasty.  I don't see how it was my
fault.  Their guard /was/ the one who fired the RPG at me.  And, if I
remember correctly, the dead cat was the one who traced down the stolen
merchandise to IBM.  See, Cray-Sinclair had insured their prototype
computer, and IBM stole it, along with the blue prints.  So I went in
to get it, and a /small/ firefight broke out.  Like I said, it wasn't
me who blew up the room, and the 986."  Sam looks bewildered, and
starts to ask "What's a 986?" but stops at the 'a,' hoping to avoid
further confusion.  "Got any pop-tarts?" I ask.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: moral          
Date & Time: 05/29/90 16:32:04
Message Number  5337

Marty went hopping all over time just to learn that it shouldn't
bother him when people call him a chicken??!! Seems like he coulda
learned THAT in the comfort and convenience of his own home! Ghods,
what's next? Marty hijacks a space shuttle to Vega to learn how to
brush his hair?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Not God...     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 16:34:57
Message Number  5338

>Bastard from hell!
 
Bastard from Long Beach Island, actually...
 
>I am nastier than thee...ask my mum!
 
I'm only interested in an unbiased opinion, and I don't think she'll
give me one.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: A/R            
Date & Time: 05/29/90 16:39:11
Message Number  5339

Thanx, it'd be appreciated. Of course, I can always try to figure out
how to hook up an IEEE hard drive to a TRS-80, but I suspect that'd be
a losing proposition...I'd have to write my own hard disk driver...
*whine!* (Stomp off into distance, grumbling about IBM microfloppies...)
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/29/90 16:57:45
Message Number  5341

> they don't refer to one another...
 
 That may be true about Star Wars and Star Trek and Dr. Who and Star 
Trek, but to say Star Trek and the Next Generation can't be cross 
referenced like that is stupid. They are almost one and the same. That's
the way the creators saw it: as an extension of the Trek universe. That
term universe used as a reference to a body of fictional characters and 
incidents related. Such as the Star Wars universe is not the same as the
Doctor Who universe.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Movies         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 17:05:29
Message Number  5342

  I guess no one is gonna be there...
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 05/29/90 20:57:21
Message Number  5343

No, the ONJ song probably has higher technical production standards; it
WAS an Electric Light Orchestra song, and even when Jeff Lynne is
recording white noise, he seems to do it in three-part harmony on
48-track digital equipment.  "Rock and Roll is King" is one of the most
cheerfully useless songs I can remember, but it was produced damn well.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: StarTrekkies   
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:00:50
Message Number  5344

I've only read three books by Barbara Hambly (the "Time of the Dark"
series) and they didn't impress me THAT much.  They were fairly good,
but the Dark was completely unmotivated -- nebulous evil-for-evil's-sake
as an antagonist generally bothers me (Card & Tolkien can get away with
it, but they're also writing in a much more mythically-conscious way
than Hambly was), and I couldn't shake the impression	 that the main
character was a shadow of Hambly herself; wish-fulfillment stories, even
when well-done, make me twitch just a little.  I've also grown to be
suspicious of books with the general plot skeleton of person-from-this
world-goes-into-a-high-fantasy-world-and-discovers-his/her-hidden-powers
in-a-battle-against-ultimate-evil stories; I've seen it done really well
exactly twice, once in Marion	 Zimmer Bradley's "House Between the
Worlds" and once in Stephen Donaldson's "Mordant's Need"--the latter of
which wasn't, actually, against ultimate evil.  I also think he did it
really well in "Thomas Covenant", but I seem to be among the minority on
this BBS in believing the series' good points outweigh its problems.
Most of those problems went away in "Mordant's Need", although it wasn't
as grandly theologically metaphysically mythical as "Covenant" was (some
might say that's a change for the better, of course).
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:08:17
Message Number  5345

> Star Wars is also in the same universe...So is Dr. Who...They have
> no plot relation and they don't refer to one another...
 
That's because they are not in the same universe when you are speaking
in a creative sense instead of an obstinately literal one.  Technically,
none of them are in ANY universe because they're fictional.  Remember?
Both "Star Trek" shows are in the same universe because they're created
by the same writer(s), share the same history, and one is supposed to
take place a few generations after the other one.  Look at it this way:
Spider-Man's story is set on	 modern-day earth.  So is the CBS sitcom
"Murphy Brown."  But that alone doesn't mean they're going to be
connected in any way, shape or form; for practical purposes, they are
in different universes.  Likewise, just because "Star Wars", both "Star
Trek" series, "Battlestar Galactica" and Ken Mitchroney's "Space Ark"
funny animal comic all take place in space doesn't make them in the
same universe.
   As for the Star Treks, /obviously/ they have a plot relation.  They
are in the same Federation, the same "universe" in any sense of the
word.  Do you think "Alien" and "Aliens" had no relation and didn't
refer to one another?  They are SEQUELS.  Likewise, "Star Trek" and
"The Next Generation" are SEQUELS to one another, in much the same way
"Battlestar Galactica" and the decrepit "Galactica 1980" were sequels.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Gadget         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:15:01
Message Number  5346

> Your weird!
> Ack!
 
Yes, but do you want to sleep with Gadget?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ALL                 
Subject: Mythagoras     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:16:50
Message Number  5347

The deadline for submissions for issue #2 of MYTHAGORAS is June 14.
We are looking, especially, for artwork and any certain stories that
involve fox morphs that female BBS users talked to Mythagoras' own fox
morph, Bartholomew, about.
 
Stuff to look for in issue #2 that we already have: an 8-page comic
story, "Deception," by Chuck Melville; the beginning of a hard sf
serial by the mysterious mad professor, Lawrence Schoen; a fantasy
horror short, "Of the Father, Upon the Son," by Kevin Higgins; art by
Juan Alfonso, Maggie de Alarcon, Eric Blumrich and others.  Other
subjects to-be-written or submitted & under consideration include a
response to Franklin Veaux's "Object-Oriented Environmentalism" from
issue #1, an article about environmentalism and animal rights as
viewed through science fiction	 and comics by, er, Watts Martin, and a
certain story involving fox morphs that a female BBS user talked to
Mythagoras' own fox morph, Bartholomew, about.
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Arnie          
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:30:44
Message Number  5348

Ok.  Check your e-mail. -R-
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not God...     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:38:06
Message Number  5349

and let's add egotistical, opinionated, anal-retentive, antagonastic,
and irritating . . . 
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:41:38
Message Number  5350

Oh. . . You seem so sweet and inocent all the time aaaH Bulsht! 
 
    (O    \
           \
           /
    (O    /
 
                   -R-
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Gadget         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 21:48:28
Message Number  5351

Or al least have a 2 or three hour round of energetic sex.
             a perverted and loving it Raven
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: religion       
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:07:41
Message Number  5352

Just as a thought - any change (even on a deathbed) /is/ still a 
change.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:14:58
Message Number  5353

Sheesh did I say that?!!!  Sorry - I get really fritzed trying to 
banzai thru here and make sense at the same time.  I get the impression
that Chip thinks I wasd referrin to him when I said no one was inter-
ested in a philosophical conversation - I gotta clear this up but first 
I gotta catch up!  I use the NIV which has been critically called a
"design by committe Bible, a Ryrie and the KJ versions with the
Thompson chain reference and the Schofield study systems.  Alas , I 
consider myself truant the last couple of years in my studies.  As
a small sideline - continued reading and meditation on the Bible can
be interesting in it's own right (ie non-religious).  As an example
the book of Job isn't really understood to be either factual (there
is evidence that says it is) or allegorical (plenty to belive here!).
A small interesting study is on the background of Jobs three "friends".
Their ancestry says that they probably had no love for any of Yahweh's
"chosen".  So what is their true relationship and how does this affect
the general "plot"?  Stuff like this interests me when I have the time
to dig around.  I think a lot of people find the Bible a "hard" book.
I was really turned on to it in a new light when I took it as an 
advanced Literature course (graduate level) in college.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: SAJW & You     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:25:37
Message Number  5354

Nahhh - the mormons teach that God lives on a planet named Kolab.
(this is serious BTW).  Theye even have a small town named this in Utah
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: they're back!!!
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:28:01
Message Number  5355

Lessee - that would be a religion known as synopticism!  Wasn't that
banned?  Haven't I seen this script on Bullwinkle (fractured fairy
tales?)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:29:52
Message Number  5356

Do you have the /slightest/ idea of that which you mumble?  The Mormons
are considered a cult by "mainstream" Christian groups.  They have been
beating their drums for the past 150 years or so and isn't anything
new.  I have no idea of where you gleaned the fact they kill their
relatives to "save" them unless you refer to their practise of research
into their family tree and baptism by proxie for those that did not
hear their beliefs here on earth.
Also: what 10 rules do you refer - the ten commandments?  The entire 
book of Leviticus consists of Jewish law - the 10 commandments were
the "catchy" phrases.  The entire Christian belief as taught by Christ
was stated as the Golden Rule - "Love thy neighbor as you love yourself"
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Ynty...        
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:36:31
Message Number  5357

Sheesh - it had nothing of ther ring of "commandment" tyo it at all.
It was merely a clever way to make the Pharisee's look like the dweebs
that they were and to emphasize the spiritual nature of God.  The
Pharisee's (and the Jewish culture in general) had this belief that 
God's pleasure with you was directly reflected in wealth.  This is
why Job's neigbors and such really figured he had done something 
really terrible to be in the shape he was in (he lost it all).  Jesus
was merely pointing out to the Pharisee's that Taxes had nothing to do
with the kingdom of God.  Essentially the thrust was to trick Jesus into
either being a traitor (pay taxes like a good roman citizen) or a
rebel (refuse to pay tribute!).  Hope this made sense,,,
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real Pagans    
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:43:04
Message Number  5358

I find it interesting that a hedonist is included in the definition
of Pagan - does this mean I can't have fun ? <snif>  Is there such
an anomoly as a Pagan Christian Hedonist?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: hack/cough     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:45:27
Message Number  5359

Jeez and I just felt silly when I ported a routine that calculkated the
values for a Chebychev thrid order filter and plotted the results on
a log-log graph to my Sinclair ZX-80!!!  I admit that I used to know
most of the MACRO that comes with the 8700 and I used to code in raw 
binary on the Apples....  I just called it overzealous.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:55:33
Message Number  5360

Like Tacos? What's your pleasure Madam?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Bungee!        
Date & Time: 05/29/90 22:58:51
Message Number  5361

Kinda reminds me of the quarter I watched a guy learning Curses on UNIX
(yes to all of the unspoken questions).  Net sum result as described by
my favorite prof:
"You spent all f*****g quarter learning how to make a twirly go around
the screen?"
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: ect.           
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:02:21
Message Number  5362

<hehehehe> I just got my new "Pyramid Books and New-Age Collection" 
catalog in the mail...  I got a real hoot out of some of the Titles.
I believe our Feminist Wiccan friend's mentor is represented within.
I'd have to go back and look....  I love seeing books that will tell
me all about the Atlanteans sexual preferences and education system
<true story 3 volumes for $11.95 a pop>.  I have observed the same tho.
they just look at you - I haven't figured out if Ramtha is trying to get
thru and kickc my butt or they are thinking "crystals can cure that..."
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: telix          
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:08:26
Message Number  5363

*I've* never had a problem (aside from when the board decided to
doublespace everything.)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:12:22
Message Number  5364

Wow -= I did that from morning to afternoon nothing but VAX guts strewn
all over the place - what made it really bad was studying UNIX in 2 
classes and VMS in the others.  Since he saw the same smiling faces in
most of the classes he was *most* liberal about carrying over info from
one to the other - worst quarter I ever had with pipes getting mixed
up with messages and mailboxes and shared resources with IPC's 
and INODE's.   EEeeeeeeeeyaahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: generous       
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:16:50
Message Number  5365

Ronnie made references to BAC .  Funny how they consulted a "New Age"
medium isn't it?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:19:22
Message Number  5366

Wow - I wish my memory was that good.  We had to go thru all that in
Philosophy (stupid statement !!! Where else would you bump into
Parmenides?!!!)  I really enjoyed some of the theories and ideas
put forth.  Isn't Parmenides the one that asserted that if you
put your foot intop a stream, removed it and put it back - that it
was not the same stream as it was before?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Doghouse       
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:22:51
Message Number  5367

Mmmmm me too!  I gotta be careful tho - since I quit smoking last 
Thanksgiving It's been far too easy to put on Lbs!!!  I'm trying to
get rid of a few right now - funny thing... I eat less, I exercise more
and I eat better (nutritious) food and I still put it on!!!  I had a guy
explain that the body is trying to correct a skewed acidity (nicotine -
like most respectable poisons is an alkaloid) and this brings it about.
Hell I'm about ready to start again!  Anyway - so how will I know you?
Should I jump up and shout "Ranea forever!"?  Like I said - just about 
every week I'm there... maybe we can drag Lady along for a real 
get together - MAYBE all of the Ranea gang should invade!!!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:34:04
Message Number  5368

C'mon, just because there is a cause and effect proposed don't mean that
it is inherently mercinary - that may well be the way things are...
Aniother pairt of glasses?  The way that Christainity is stated preclude
any attempts at labelling it another attempt at understanding some
"Great Truth" that is bigger than any religion.  It's either true
or it ain't.  There can be questions as to the mechanism but the 
underlying premise is rock-hard.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: New Subject:   
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:38:18
Message Number  5369

My brain needs some Ti-d-bowl right now - let me get back to ya...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: FUCK YOU       
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:41:02
Message Number  5370

Ever heard the quote on vulgarity being the last refuge of the
incompetent?  Use it creatively and it becomes an aid - you simply
resort to it as an insult.  Besides?  Why would anyone want to wish
me such a nice thing when I've apparently been bad?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: JW & You       
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:44:45
Message Number  5371

Oh boy!  Did you get like - you know /real descriptive/???
I know the type - I have on occasion met the odd JW that was so polite
and accepting of my "no thanks" that I felt prompted to invite them in
and talk about something else for a change.  It's all in the persona.
Some people are born assholes and use religion as a shotgun to 
spread that which was given to them at birth...
Your right - it /is/ an imperfecT world....
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IBMs           
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:47:42
Message Number  5372

Oooh OOohhh - Byte actually gave the court ammo when they came up
with a quote from the design team that the interface didn't even
have icons and such until they saw the Xerox interface and copied it/..
Talk about egg in the face!!!!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Simple Subject 
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:49:15
Message Number  5373

'Tis true - ya know if I were *really* motivated I'd have to start
with the ol' "well let's hear *your* proof of the nonexistence of
God"  that can get pretty funny.  But - I notice some really veiled
and outright hostilities.... Maybe the new moon...Arruuuuuu!  Sorry
I can't seem to get the energy up - I gotta get to a quack - I mean
MD. (whadda synonym)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: New Job?       
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:53:45
Message Number  5374

wow a premier synopticizer and critic to boot!  No kidding, I wish
I'd have said that...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: hostility      
Date & Time: 05/29/90 23:56:08
Message Number  5375

<hehehe > How'd I know you were gonna say that???
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Movies         
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:10:01
Message Number  5376

  Me if I can get transp0rt.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Question       
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:14:11
Message Number  5377

   I wasn't trying t0 amuse y0u
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:16:34
Message Number  5378

   Y0u're a gifted eng. t00? I try n0t t0 sh0w it, th0ugh.
 
    BTW when's the 1ast time y0u were s1apped?
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: skirts         
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:18:39
Message Number  5379

  I..10ve the dead, I...10ve the dead, yeah I... 10ve the dead, s much!
 I'm in a n0sta1gic A1ice C00per m00d.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Sma11 Creatures
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:22:06
Message Number  5380

  I 1ike the gn0mes better than b0th, especia11y with T0m B0s1ey's 
v0ice as David the Gn0me.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: StarTrekkies   
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:31:27
Message Number  5381

  I was using the 7ft 0rc fr0m Ang1e games
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not God...     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:34:50
Message Number  5382

   frustrated, and n0isy
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:38:05
Message Number  5383

   And that's what I 1ikeab0ut y0u m0st (y0u kn0w why).
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not God...     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:43:24
Message Number  5384

   Here's my unbiased 0pini0n.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Mythagoras     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 02:49:55
Message Number  5385

   I'm a1m0st finished with sh0rt st0ries, w0u1d y0u 1ike them?
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Hmm.           
Date & Time: 05/30/90 03:03:25
Message Number  5387

  Very g00d. I'm impressed. Th0ugh I didn't expect a ret0rt (vi01ent) 
fr0m y0u.
 
  Y0u've earned my ap010gy.
 I am s0rry. (and Spe11wind d0esn't ap010gize t0 every0ne.)
===========

From: THRUD               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: neckwear       
Date & Time: 05/30/90 06:30:16
Message Number  5389

blast the bastards into bits of Borg bullsh*t
   I'm glad I didn't really need full brain function to reply, the 
caffiene hasn't kicked in yet - it's got to give me more power, capn
===========

From: THRUD               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: spidy          
Date & Time: 05/30/90 06:37:11
Message Number  5390

I seem to recall reading that spiderman will be doing a guest spot
on Murphy  Brown - but with a twist ending, in that he goes to bed
with Murphy, Corkey and MaryJane, but wakes up with Suzanne Pleshete
in the middle of the US Open.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Question       
Date & Time: 05/30/90 06:59:18
Message Number  5391

>I wasn't trying t0 amuse y0u.
   
    Somehow I gathered that much.
     
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: DWEEBS and TNG!
Date & Time: 05/30/90 12:09:42
Message Number  5392

Now I make a great french toast.
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 13:04:36
Message Number  5393

> The way that Christianity is stated precludes any attempts at labeling
> it another attempt at understanding some "Great Truth" that is bigger
> than any religion.
 
This is also true of many (most) theistic religions.  Wicca isn't
supposed to be an attempt to tune into the cosmic consciousness all
religions are based on, it's just supposed to be The Truth, Q.E.D.
That doesn't necessarily mean that it's true.  And, the common threads
between it and Christianity don't necessarily mean it's a "shadow" of
Christianity in some Lewis-ian sense; if it could be construed that way,
the reverse (Christianity as a Wicca shadow) could also be true.
   I've also never completely bought the "well, Christianity has to be
true because its claims are so outrageous they have to be" line of
reasoning.  That's a patently hokey argument if you use it to defend,
say, advertiser claims or any run-of-the-mill crackpot religion.  No,
actually, I've /never/ bought it.  It just doesn't hold water; by making
outrageous it's-this-or-nothing claims, it makes people pay attention to
it -- just like any other revolutionary social movement.  If such claims
weren't made, it wouldn't be around today.  Longevity does imply that
there's something to it, yet, but it doesn't imply that ALL its tenets
are true.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: StarNuttin'    
Date & Time: 05/30/90 14:49:54
Message Number  5394

"House Between the Worlds" was a really good--and BIZZARE--book. It
seemed to have set out to turn a lot of the "person-from-our-world-
travels-to-another" cliches around, or at least skew them somewhat...
I /love/ the scene where the main character uses a bootleg drug to
try to transport himself to the alternate world, and ends up getting
sidetracked talking about good and evil with a brick wall...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Gadget         
Date & Time: 05/30/90 14:55:09
Message Number  5395

>Yes, but do youi want to sleep with Gadget?
 
Is this a trick question?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Not Real       
Date & Time: 05/30/90 14:56:52
Message Number  5396

>and let's add egotistical, opinionated, anal-retentive, antagonistic,
>and irritating...
 
I am NOT anal-retentive.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 15:01:09
Message Number  5397

>The entire Christian belief as taught by Christ was stated as the
>Golden Rule - "Love thy neighbor as you love yourself."
 
Amend that to read "Love thy neighbor and thy planet as you love
yourself" and you'd have a more nearly adequate ethical code...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: VAXen as God   
Date & Time: 05/30/90 15:09:02
Message Number  5398

>I did that from morning to afternoon nothing but VAX guts strewn all
>over the place...
 
And you're COMPLAINING??!! I have to fight, finagle, and fidgit to get
even minimal access to VAXen these days...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 05/30/90 15:14:48
Message Number  5399

>Y0u're a gifted eng. t00? I try n0t t0 sh0w it, th0ugh.
 
We11, n0b0dy wi11 ever accuse y0u 0f being pretenti0us, at least...
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Mythagoras     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 17:07:25
Message Number  5401

Bartholomew (Mythagoras' own fox morph, if you didn't know) said the
deadline was sometime in July.  Oh well, that's what you get when you
talk to a fox while trying to watch "Heavy Metal."
 
  ...not like I would actually submit anything, but ask Turtle about
my Fuzzy Bunny poem.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: SAJW & You     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 17:11:12
Message Number  5402

>Nahhh - the mormons teach that God lives on a planet named Kolab.
 
And this planet is in the middle of the universe.  And he's waiting for
a starship.
 
   ...Bill should stick to Rescue 911.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: DWEEBS and TNG!
Date & Time: 05/30/90 17:25:50
Message Number  5403

>Now I make great french toast.
>                            * CRYSTAL *
 
O.K., when's breakfast?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Gadget         
Date & Time: 05/30/90 17:42:52
Message Number  5405

> > Yes, but do you want to sleep with Gadget?
 
> Is this a trick question?
 
Depends on how nicely you ask her, I suppose.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Mythagoras     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 17:44:40
Message Number  5406

No, it's June 14.  It better damn well be OUT by some time in July.
Grr!
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: StarTrekkies   
Date & Time: 05/30/90 17:59:25
Message Number  5407

I've read her "Dark Tower" "The Silicon Mage" and (hmm can't remember
the name of the last in the trilogy) but it wasn't as good as her 
'Witches of Wenshar' in my book. She took the theme of a Wizard who 
didn't want to be. I the first trilogy, (The Dark Tower) the evil is 
quite well represented as a greedy guy who get's ahead of himself, 
he's pretty powerful, but not nebulous at all. Like I said, It's hard
to think of anyone doing better than Card (for me anyway) There are 
books I like, (Like the Myth-Adventures series) and there are books 
which really impress me.. and they don't necessarily coincide. 
 Anyway.. Read her series on Sun Wolf, I've got the book club "The 
unschooled wizard" which has the first two books. I'll loan it to you
sometime. 
 
                        - Corwyn
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ALL                 
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/30/90 21:07:34
Message Number  5408

So, anyone know what's up with C of C?
===========

From: THRUD               
To: ALL                 
Subject: accounting     
Date & Time: 05/30/90 21:14:04
Message Number  5409

HELP, I'm being held prisoner by Horngren & Harrisons Accounting Text!
 (class tested for accuracy) I've been trapped in my office with this
insidious beast for two hours, and I'm not sure if I should debit
my allowance for uncollectable free time or credit my lack of equity -
I certainly can't credit interest because I HAVE NONE. I'd hate to 
have a negative adjusting entry to my GPA, but I'd also rather have
my head waxed by bloodsucking denubian pygmies than continue my
homework. HEAVY sigh. Well, back to reality.
                           A Thrud of no account
ya know, it seems like being able to hit a 250 yard tee shot would
be sufficent to make it in the business world (along with a good
spell-checker)
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/30/90 21:42:03
Message Number  5410

> To say Star Trek and the Next Generation can't be cross referenced
> like that is stupid....
 
But true.  Name similarities besides the fact that the ship's name is
the same, the federation is similar, and they have the same, old,
dumb enemies?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/30/90 22:48:39
Message Number  5411

>Name similarities...
 
The new series has reffered to old series a # of times (the 2nd
episode in the first season pops to mind.  Dr. Crusher refers back to
the medical logs of the first Enterprise).
Not to mention McCoy was on the new series, as was Sarek.
I'm sure there are many more examples
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/30/90 23:22:28
Message Number  5412

Courts of Chaos moved.  Turtle tells me that when he calls one of the
three new numbers Random had listed, he got diddly, but I haven't tried
it myself.  Hopefully we'll all hear from Random via cheesy BBS ads in
the next few days with the new numbers and such.
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: toast up       
Date & Time: 05/31/90 01:20:30
Message Number  5413

>O.K., when's breakfest?
     When ever you want it.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: watch it again 
Date & Time: 05/31/90 02:36:52
Message Number  5414

Sarek wouldn't necessarily have mentioned another son in the quoted
phrase if he really hated his guts.  Sarek was just listing the people
he loved.  Maybe he was just in logic with Sybok.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/31/90 02:41:04
Message Number  5415

> a design by committee Bible
 
What version of the Bible is NOT designed by committee.  It certainly
was written by committee; look at the number of authors.  I'm kicking
myself as I delete part of this message ... just now realized what
KJ stood for.  (I have friend who goes by the name of K.J. and I was
sure she hadn't written any inspired scripture.)
   Anyway, shoot the critics who complain, a Bible that wasn't
assembled and translated by committee is suspect.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: MUSIC-LOVERS EVERYWH
Subject: encore! encore!
Date & Time: 05/31/90 03:04:33
Message Number  5417

    Angel knew she was somewhat rusty on keyboard, but she wasn't use
to people, or rather unicorns, walking out in the middle of the
performance.  She hoped it wasn't something she played.  Perhaps the
next tune would be more appealing the crowd.  "And now for my
next selection..."  Angel thought she heard a groan from the corner
of the bar.  Gamely ignoring the comments from the rabble, she
continued, "I'd like to sing a love song.  A charming little tune
untitled 'Nonsense Written to the Boy I Thought I Loved."
     
     If you don't want me,
     Why did you tell me
     That you would hold me,
     That you would love me?
 
     Whispering softly
     Whispering to me.
     Whispering love
     You never did feel.
 
     Hysterical tears I
     Cried in the night
     Have all passed away --
     The pain's gone away.
 
     Now you don't move me.
     Now you can't soothe me.
     Did not want me then,
     Don't come to me now!
     Just drop dead, beloved,
     I'm free of you now.
 
     Angel wondered when Donthen had started serving snacks, as an
olive pit hit her in the back of the head.  "Critics!  Aw, hell,
Xon get me a scotch.  By the way, whatever 'appened -- Happened! to
that charming fox that used to frequent this establishment?"
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/31/90 03:42:50
Message Number  5418

   The temp0rary number is 0n Bey0nd Cha0s. Ca11 there f0r a change.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/31/90 06:52:42
Message Number  5419

  Read Donthen's message on this subject. I can't see your reasoning, so
I'm not going to start arguing.
  Why don't YOU give me proof that they're NOT in the same universe??
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/31/90 06:55:02
Message Number  5420

 GTE messed up. The new lines will be up later. Until then try 
371-0009...
  KNow what's scary? I had to go on Beyond Chaos to learn that. The only
seemingly inteligent people on there are Rocky and Snakebyte.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ALL                 
Subject: .              
Date & Time: 05/31/90 11:26:19
Message Number  5421

[From Xonzoff]
    I get Angel her drink, picking up the miscreant olive pit and
tossing it in the trash.  I don't remember serving any drinks with
olives today and the only garnishes you get with sandwiches are pickles.
Hmm.
    "Don't know where Wezip is," I say when I brink the drink back.
"He was here a minute ago."  I start to walk back to the bar, then pause
for a second.  "Don't take Donthen too personally.  Strange people keep
wandering into the bar and committing felonies; so far today he's been
questioned by yet another Guard, had somebody carrying an illegal weapon
wander in here and claim we're all illusory, and gotten the wind knocked
out of him.  He really doesn't have anything against you, or pianos.
Hopefully he'll have calmed down in an hour or two."  Although I don't
think he can spell 'apology,' I add silently.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/31/90 13:42:04
Message Number  5423

  Y0! Y0u f0rg0t me!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Mythagoras     
Date & Time: 05/31/90 15:06:16
Message Number  5426

Actually, DON'T ask Turtle about the Fuzzy Bunny poem. He'd really
rather not think about it...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/31/90 15:12:24
Message Number  5427

The KJ Bible itself is something of a problematic beast...it was
TRANSLATED by committee, and one that frequently took an ad-hoc
hit-or-miss approach to translation. It also doesn't help that the
KJV is in several places a third generation translation--the translators
frequently didn't have access to the Hebrew texts, and had to translate
from the Latin Vulgate bible and the Greek scriptures. (The Vulgate
itself was rife with errors, and some of 'em managed to creep into the
KJV; for example, the name of the Christian devil is not "Lucifer."
The word "Lucifer" appears only in Job and the passage in which it
appears is a study in translation error.) It also doesn't help that in a
few places the translators /deliberately/ garphled the text to avoid
offending King James...
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Whorf          
Date & Time: 05/31/90 15:58:04
Message Number  5428

It is true...name ONE time Whorf has been involved in a brawl and hasnt
gotten his clock cleaned.  I honestly can't think of one.
                             The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 05/31/90 16:03:27
Message Number  5429

There isnt a reason NOT to have a cloaking device, for christs sake.
The have the technology, they have the know-how, they have an erector
set.....This "science vessel" and "exploration ship" explaination is
not gonna cut it.  I'm sorry, but there is no /reasonable/ explaination
for the Enterprise not to have cloaking ability.
                                The Yngli...(look I cloaked the last
                                part of my name)
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Whorf          
Date & Time: 05/31/90 16:13:00
Message Number  5430

Whorf couldnt pop a pimple on my little sisters ass.  He';s been in
more fights than anyone else on the bridge crew (who said anything
about /away/ missions - he gets his ass kicked on his own freaking
ship) and has lost them ALL.
                            The Yngling
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/31/90 17:27:07
Message Number  5431

I've gotten a person, a ringing, and a "do do Doo, the number you have
reached..etc.."
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: toast up       
Date & Time: 05/31/90 17:27:45
Message Number  5432

>   When ever you want it.
 
Gee, your very accomodating.  Right now, I'm stuffed.  I just ate two
porkchops, some frosting, then some cake.  I tried getting the frosting
on the cake, but it didn't work.  I figured that my stomach and
intestines wouldn't know the diff.  But I digress.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/31/90 17:31:30
Message Number  5433

>GTE messed up.
 
No.  They never mess up.  Except when the installed a dead line for my
new number.  Or the time they somehow connected my line with that
of a retirement home.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Mythagoras     
Date & Time: 05/31/90 17:33:11
Message Number  5434

>Actually, DON'T ask Turtle about the Fuzzy Bunny poem.  He'd really
>rather not think about it...
 
Hurumph!  There was an impromptue dramatic reading of it a few weeks
back in Journalism class.  Everyone there seemed to like it.  BTW, I
found "We Can Remember It for You Wholesale," the story you said was
hard to find.  That library thing has several books, at least two or
three dozen.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ALL                 
Subject: A Poem...      
Date & Time: 05/31/90 17:37:55
Message Number  5435

And now, a dramatic typing of "The Fuzzy Bunny," the authors first
published poem.
Ahem...
There was a little bunny.
He lived by a nuclear reactor.
And he would grow and grow
and glow and glow.
Until he was a big bunny
and he ate Mr. Funny.
Soon, the townspeople asked how
Mr. Funny and a cow
had died.
Until, one night, he was eyed.
The rumor was spread
why so many were dead.
Most folks got read to run,
but Mr. Jones got his gun.
Mr. Jones saw the bunny and blew off his head.
And finally, the bunny was dead.
 
Thank you very much, and good day!
<exits stage right at high speed, hoping to avoid flying produce>
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 05/31/90 18:38:23
Message Number  5438

Yes, I just need to take the time to download your edited version.
 
Time. A commodity I'm finding less and less available. Did I tell you
InfoWorld accepted me for contract database review work? Things are
starting to look up, finally.
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/31/90 18:44:01
Message Number  5439

Looks like before to me... now, which verse says man was created after?
 
{Acapulco}
 
P.S.: Do you recall seeing or hearing ANYTHING REMOTELY SIMILAR to
flying pigs in Genesis? I bumped into such a discussion on PLINK, but
failed to note the source verses.
 
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: religion       
Date & Time: 05/31/90 19:59:02
Message Number  5441

A change on the deathbed, however, is of little signifance as it only 
applies to one's last few hours, and has no bearing on how one has lived
one's life.  Deathbed conversion is the ultimate form of hypocracy, as 
one is denying everything one has held true, and claiming that this will
make it all better now.  
 
I do not believe that a life-long sadist could absolve himself by merely
'converting' to a religion for the last few hours of their life.
 
               a Hipocracy is the only mortal sin Raven
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: New Subject:   
Date & Time: 05/31/90 20:30:36
Message Number  5442

>Does an individual...go to Hell for commiting the...sinof ignorance?
The answer to that is NO!
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/31/90 22:21:37
Message Number  5443

The temporary # is 813-371-0009.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 05/31/90 22:24:31
Message Number  5444

No, Spe11wind, I talked to Beatle earlier, He didn' forget you.
  
He INTENTIONALLY left you off the "Intelligent Users List",and I have
to admit, I certain1y can onderstand where he w0u1d get reas0n too...
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 05/31/90 22:30:21
Message Number  5445

Lucifer is also used in Isaiah, I believe.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: A Poem...      
Date & Time: 05/31/90 22:35:45
Message Number  5446

Not fast enough...SPLAT.......SPLAT.........WHUMP!(I tried to keep 
them from throwing Watermelons, mbut I couldn't stop them).
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: religion       
Date & Time: 05/31/90 22:40:04
Message Number  5447

If the conversion is true, it matters not when it takes place, so long 
as itis before the phisical death of the person.
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: religion       
Date & Time: 05/31/90 23:43:32
Message Number  5448

Why the (arbitrary) point of physical death??  Seems if we /do/ have an
afterlife.. why don't they allow conversions five minutes after death..
some poeple don't get much warning, you know.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: afterlife      
Date & Time: 06/01/90 01:30:58
Message Number  5451

I think we are given a warnin after death, but before whatever comes
next.  My mother was clinicaly dead when she was having my sister.
She relates the story of seeing herself from above, very peacefully.
But she had a great longing to be back with her daughter.  So she
went away from this light that she had seen, and back into her own
body.  I believe her experience to be true.  She was dead for a short
time.  Now you can choose to believe what you want.  But I think it
was a choice she had to make.  So perhaps we can't change our religious
views before death, but maybe we can postpone death for awhile.  
(There is an interesting article in June '90 "Discover" on the
>the search for eternal youth< very plossible.  Anyway, since this
isn't really controversial stuff, I leave the rest to the "GLOBE"...
 
            By for now,
                    Tree
P.S. my sister is three years older than me.  My mother made a good 
desision, otherwise I might have been born an EAR MITE, or something
equally noxiouse.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/01/90 01:48:21
Message Number  5452

    We11 Mr. CCA, I must be pretty stupid t0 n0t make Mr. Beat1e's 
Int. 1ist, th0ugh my IQ was tested at 180.....
 
   -Pr0b1em- CCA
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: C.C.A               
Subject: Y0u            
Date & Time: 06/01/90 01:53:12
Message Number  5453

  What's CCA stand f0r, Cr0tchedy Christian Assh01e?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/01/90 02:29:20
Message Number  5454

I was on Courts of Chaos earlier today -- 371-0009, just like whoever
said that, er, said.  It dropped carrier on	 me.  I always thought that
Random just had a flakey phone line; now I'm convinced he has a flakey
modem.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/01/90 02:31:25
Message Number  5455

Well, that's good (about Infoworld, that is).  I'm still looking for
some sort of permanent employment I like enough to keep permanent (the
only attempts so far have been one I didn't like enough to complete the
training on, and another that kept me two days before deciding they
wanted someone with AutoCAD experience -- the others have all been
temporary, either through Kelly Services or just running into them on my
own).  Just how does one become an independent computer consultant,
anyway?...
===========

From: PSYCHE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/01/90 04:18:49
Message Number  5456

Supposed permanent number is 371-7022.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/01/90 15:03:11
Message Number  5457

   N0W the NEW 1ine is up! (P0st in the Tavern)
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/01/90 16:09:15
Message Number  5458

>...my IQ was tested at 180.......
  
So was mine, in first grade.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Y0u            
Date & Time: 06/01/90 16:11:49
Message Number  5459

Actually, it came off of the cover of ca Reader's Digest. It stands for
C>astro, C>ocaine, and the A>-bomb.
(All of which I think stink.)
   
As to your 0's and 1's, I don't read binary.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: PSYCHE              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/01/90 16:16:46
Message Number  5460

There will be 4 lines.
only line no.2 will support anyone on 300bps. That number will
(hopefully) be 371-7231.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Whorf          
Date & Time: 06/01/90 18:11:23
Message Number  5464

Okay...there was an episode whose name I don't know which involved a
bunch of renegade Klingons attempting to overrun the Enterprise...Whorf
displayed admirable fighting skills there...
 
Of course, it /still/ doesn't really matter all that much; Kirk may have
been the best barroom brawler in the galaxy, but he was still a lous
(oops, LOUSY) starship captain. His ship was taken over, overrun,
diverted, and wrested away from him by a bunch of hippies so often
it's a miracle he wasn't court-martialed. You'd think he would have
learned not to let everyone who beams aboard his ship have access to
the auxiliary bridge...and the manual "How To Take Over the Enterprise
Without the Lech and the Pointy-Eared Fellow On the Bridge Catching On"
(in its fourth printing by the time the third season drew to a close).
              --A Star Trek Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/01/90 18:18:17
Message Number  5465

Yes, the Enterprise should have a cloaking device, for what it's worth.
Cloaking technology doesn't really seem to be all that far advanced
in the 23rd century (like I should talk...we got the Stealth bomber
that can be picked up by a ground radar installation twelve miles
away...); how often does it really seem to matter that the various
nasties are cloaked? "Captain, the Romulan ship has cloaked, but I think
I can compensate by patching the sensor system into this Ginsu
combination alpha-wave integrator and toaster oven..." Still, it'd
probably be helpful against some of the Federation's dumber opponents,
like, say, the Ferengi and Ken Ober...
                   --A         Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Philip K. Dick 
Date & Time: 06/01/90 18:24:29
Message Number  5466

>That library thing has several books...
 
Yes, but does it have movies, too? I won't go there if it doesn't
have movies. And MTV. I want my MTV.
 
BTW: A whole bunch of Philip K. Dick's books are back in the bookstores
again, always something that's nice to see...still can't find "A Scanner
Darkly," though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 06/01/90 18:28:37
Message Number  5467

>Lucifer is also used in Isaiah, I believe.
 
Not in the King James Version...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: afterlife      
Date & Time: 06/01/90 18:30:13
Message Number  5468

>...but maybe we can postpone death for a while.
 
I don't think that's an option for people who get hit by trains and
die in similarly spectacular ways...
                                 ...isn't it /neat/ what your brain
can do when it's deprived of stimulation??
              --A still-skeptical Turtle
===========

From: THE DOCTOR          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:04:11
Message Number  5469

No big thing, and it adds little to this discussion, but there are 
several organisims more advanced than planaria which are asexual. There 
are a number of amphibians and reptiles which are totally parthinogenic.
Every single member of the species is a female, and the exact genetic
copy of each other (the posibility of mutation exists though). This is
true of several geckos (lizards) and some newts. I don't know how they
feel about violence but they are carnivores even if they don't vote.
.....in the for what it's worth dept. (and my PhD is in Anthropology)
the mother goddess (Earth mother? Diana?) pre dates the Horned God, and
gatherers predate hunter/gatherers. (finder/collecters came before 
seekers).
.
.
.            rwb......carion before beef on the hoof.....
===========

From: THE DOCTOR          
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:16:18
Message Number  5470

I think blacks have a right to be racists too, but whoever engages in
those activities shouldn't raise their hackles if they are called what
they are....and who was it that said that color was a race?...somewhere
in this message train someone said something like that. Blacks can have
racist attitudes towards other blacks just as easially as whites can be
racist towards other whites, right?
.
.
.      rwb....I mean damn, it's a free country.....
===========

From: THE DOCTOR          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: FemTalk (tm)   
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:21:12
Message Number  5471

Everybody has the right to be whatever they want wheather it's biggoted
or chauvanistic or whatever. It's the individuals right. No one has the
right to act on those feelings if it is going to interfear with someone
else however. Being something, and doing something are seperate concepts
We have the right to hate each other, we just can't act on it without 
each others consent (same with love obviously)
.
.
.     rwb.....my boundry starts and stops with me
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not God...     
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:46:17
Message Number  5472

This is true...this is true! :)
     -The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: RAVEN               
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:46:55
Message Number  5473

Thanks, love!  What was that all about?
   -The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:47:29
Message Number  5474

Tacos are good.  
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:48:39
Message Number  5475

Thanks a helluva lot!  Ga-ahead, slap me.  I love it.
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 06/01/90 20:49:22
Message Number  5476

I know.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/02/90 00:48:52
Message Number  5477

   3 1ines. 371-0009 his r00m mate's v0ice #
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 06/02/90 00:54:15
Message Number  5478

 0n1y if y0u s1ap me back.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/02/90 01:06:35
Message Number  5479

 Alright, everyone, I have to appologize for starting some vicious 
cycles here. Since Spellwind didn't make a post saying "My keyboard is
broken", I assumed that he was doing it on purpose. The numbers really 
bugged me, and they persisted... I started writing yelling messages to 
stop it. Bad idea. Sorry everyone.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/02/90 01:09:00
Message Number  5480

  WELL, everyone! GTE got off their lazy butts and got Rocky his line. 
The new number is 371-7022!! And the multi-lines will be in Monday. 
Sounds like a good idea to me!
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Whorf          
Date & Time: 06/02/90 01:12:25
Message Number  5481

 Have you forgotten? Kirk WAS court martialed. The episode was called
"Court Martial" as a matter of fact.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/02/90 01:13:48
Message Number  5482

> dumber opponents, like, say, the Ferengi and Ken Ober...
 
  Does this validate his theory that you hate him?? (By the way, I like
that sentence!)
 
>             -- A         Turtle
 
  I like that too, but would you de-cloak, or ve shall havf to svoot you
down... into a nuclear wessel.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Whorf          
Date & Time: 06/02/90 02:53:29
Message Number  5483

Have you seen the slide show on ST at Necronomicon?  It's very funny.
One slide shows an enlargment of the plague on the bridge, with 
instructions on how to take-over the Enterprise.  Something like:
1)Get access to the aux. bridge.
2)something I forgot
3)Watch out for the pointy eared one on the bridge, he's tough.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Philip K. Dick 
Date & Time: 06/02/90 02:56:41
Message Number  5484

>still can't find "A Scanner Darkly," though.
 
Wow, Zot, who's in back of me, is holding [placing book in his hand]
it in his hot little paws.  Actually, the library does have some movies,
and the Anime group meets there every month.
 
   ...not to mention the magazine "American Atheist," but the librarians
keep ranting on about how Satan order them the subscription.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 06/02/90 09:17:44
Message Number  5485

Sorry, wrong version.
I don't really trust the KJV all
that much.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/02/90 09:22:49
Message Number  5486

It wasn't two days ago...
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/02/90 09:26:26
Message Number  5487

>...or ve shall hevf to svoot you down... into a nuclear wessel.
 
  Almost.
If you are trying to emulate Chkov the quote would be more like this:
 
or ve shell hev to shoot shoot you down... into a nuclear wessel.
 
Please note some miner(get it?) changes.
 
 I hev to go now, 
                 A hopefully helpful C.C.A.
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: ect.           
Date & Time: 06/02/90 10:05:55
Message Number  5488

===========

From: RAVEN               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Doghouse       
Date & Time: 06/02/90 10:15:55
Message Number  5489

> I eat less, I excercise more and I eat better (nutritious) food and I
> still put it on!!!
 
Hmm.  Stop eating nutritious food.  Junk food is your friend.  All the
preservatives will help to keep you the same.  You will live forever if
you get enough junk food.
 
             A smoking, junk food junkie Raven
 
Please don't hit me.  No not the chair...
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Not Real       
Date & Time: 06/02/90 10:27:53
Message Number  5490

> I am NOT anal-retentive.
 
Ok, I apologise.  You are no more anal-retentive than Bart is.
         -R-
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: StarTrekkies   
Date & Time: 06/02/90 10:33:37
Message Number  5491

From Barbara, who is looking over my shoulder : "That's because there is
no trilogy, you twit"
 
         An ardent fan of Darkmage Barbara.
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: religion       
Date & Time: 06/02/90 10:46:40
Message Number  5492

See my last messages on this thread and reread them.
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: cca            
Date & Time: 06/02/90 10:49:05
Message Number  5493

I think the first letter stands for conservative.
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 06/02/90 10:56:37
Message Number  5494

Well, there was supposed to be a big face w. an evil grin, but this
software eats backslashes. 
 
 (O   )
       )
 (O   )
 
                 -R-
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Worf? Where?   
Date & Time: 06/02/90 14:51:28
Message Number  5495

>Have you forgotten? Kirk WAS court martialed.
 
Yes, but for the wrong reasons--and he was acquitted. Kirk should
by all rights have been court-martialled for gross incompetence and
negligence...and for breaking the Prime Directive, several times...
and for recklessly endangering his ship and his crew, several times...
and for using a Federation Starship for personal ends (Amok Time)...
Kirk may have been good at fighting and laying, but as a starship
captain he was lousy.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST & ST:TNG    
Date & Time: 06/02/90 14:55:06
Message Number  5496

             --A         Turtle
                    .
                      .
                       .
                       .
                       .
                      .:.
>I like that too...b.**/*:ld you please de-cloak...or ve shall have to
>svoot you down...***%*#**"%*$r wessel...
 
HA! Go ahead, TRY to shoot me down, I /dare/ you! I've just crippled
a verb phrase and a prepositional phrase with ONE SHOT. HA!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Advertise here!
Date & Time: 06/02/90 14:59:26
Message Number  5497

>I don't really trust the KJV all
>that much.
 
That's because it's a Godawful bad translation. I don't think there
are /any/ translations of the Bible other than the KJV and its
offspring that mention Lucifer, though...that would be totally
against the entire Hebrew belief system. The ancient Hebrews believed
that to know a thing's name is to have power over that thing (hence
God asks Adam to name all his earthly creations, thereby giving Adam
power over them); to know the name of God or Satan is to claim to have
power over them, which is blasphemy.
 
"Lucifer" is Latin for "light giver," and is the Latin name for the
Eastern Star. That particular word is an artifact of the Vulgate
Bible and no analog of it can be found in any older document. (Think
about it..."Lucifer" is not a Hebrew name by a long shot!)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: ect.           
Date & Time: 06/02/90 15:05:42
Message Number  5499

>Pseudo science, the wave of the doomed.
 
Ignorance never goes out of style. It was the fashion yesterday, it's
the trend today, and it will set the pace tomorrow.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/02/90 21:46:09
Message Number  5501

Unfortunately - the world will judge your intelligence (perceived of
course) by what they see of you.  It's not right but it IS the way
of the world..  I see this every day with a young guy we have.  He's
sharp and has a better than average brain but his spelling is the shits.
Therefor people judge him by that...  Moral?  Work at it a little
harder - anyone that reads 3 books a day should have a better idea
of the way those books are assembled.
                                          JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Vulgarity      
Date & Time: 06/02/90 21:52:07
Message Number  5502

Now now - don't get your hopes up...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SPELLWIND           
Subject: Richard Nixon  
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:00:48
Message Number  5504

You know who I'm surprised no one bashes?  LBJ was the crookedest SOB
to EVER walk in the White House - next comes Lincoln with his personal
civil, and editorial rights violations...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: abuse          
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:08:12
Message Number  5505

I live in Bradenton - I'd prefer (because of my schedule (or lack there
of) for you to leave a message on my machine at work - hell for the next
day if it comes to that.  I'm flexible -- 355-9761 ext 2029
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:16:38
Message Number  5506

#1 - I happen to be *extremely* busy at this time.  I've rapped with
Turtle about how hard it is to keep up when the stuff is flying fast
and furious and I can't get on the board for a couple of days.  If
this is "running" from the issues - sorry for the perception but I
have a hell of a lot of programming to do at work (some even at home).
 
#2 - Ok lemme ask you this:  What sort of "proof" or "support" are
you looking for?  What would you accept?
 
                                  * A deep fried JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Small fib      
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:23:35
Message Number  5507

Now that's a small fib Turtle - I used to smoke and my drive heads
were glued together with some nasty gunky brown shit that actually
stuck to the media.
                         * A reformed JonBoy
 
Actually - he has a point - smokers are being browbeaten for what is
essentially a right on their part.  I was always a considerate smoker
in that I was careful WHEN I smoked and made sure that it did not 
go around anyone that didn't smoke.  
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: PARTY!!!       
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:28:00
Message Number  5508

Hell - I've got it!  We can reserve Turtle Beach - we had a company 
party there not too long ago and you must admit it is appropos.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Movies         
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:29:34
Message Number  5509

Count me in!!!  Where is this theatre??
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:37:58
Message Number  5510

Isn't that what 'A' for abort is for?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Poem           
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:40:26
Message Number  5511

I was wondering if you *really* had said that about Olivia - jeez I'm
so relieved to hear it was Rush (even tho I find the lead-singer
tirsome to listen to for long - kinda reminds me of a group known
as White Witch).
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Orson Scott Car
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:43:37
Message Number  5512

I bought a book the other day - it looked like a sequel to "A Planet
Called Treason" (One of my favorites of all time!) - the dirty bastard
decided that he was a better writer now and rewrote the damned thing!
I'm pissed!
                          An OSC fan (maybe) JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Complete       
Date & Time: 06/02/90 22:58:02
Message Number  5513

No , think about it... the planet as an abode for your neighbor would
require care and concern on your part not to screw it up.  The Golden
Rule obtains it's power from it's elegant simplicity.
                                        JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: VAXen as God   
Date & Time: 06/02/90 23:00:09
Message Number  5514

Nahh what's that Joni Mitchell song "you never know what you got till
it's gone...".  I *liked* writing realtime and interprocess communica-
tions code on the VAX's - we never could get our routines to work
across the network with different OS's tho - not enuf time and Ultrix
is so freewheeling but stashes everything for later (buffered I/O) and 
VMS is such a damned nazi when it comes to resources... hell <snif>
I *miss* school!!!!
                                An Alma-mattered JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 06/02/90 23:05:40
Message Number  5515

I was sold on the fact that it used the latest texts and was cross-
referenced to keep secular influences OUT.  Now I understand that
there's an even newer version that is actually modified KJ in language
(which is beautiful in it descriptiveness) and has some other claims to
fame - I'll have to peek at one just out of curiosity.  Amazing that
after all these centuries it is still THE premier book.
 
                                               JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: religion       
Date & Time: 06/02/90 23:11:08
Message Number  5516

Actually - It doesn't really matter WHAT you think - you and I are not
in a position to determine the sincerity of the persons belief or in
fact anything about the person.  The traditional Christian viewpoint
that even many Christians have trouble understanding is that grace
and absolution of sins really is free.  I have heard more people grumbel
that "such and such" couldn't possibly deserve it and couldn't possibly
get it at the last minute like that - wrong!  It is a free gift so why
begrudge it to someone else?  It doesn't affect you so ditto.  Matter 
of fact - the whole process is not dependant on anyone except that 
individual and Jesus.  Kinda like complaining that since your
neighbor is a jerk flowers should die in his flowerbed...
 
                                  JonBoy
(no that is not non-sequitar)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/02/90 23:18:18
Message Number  5517

I *really* hate pompous idiots like yourself... You would be an 
international phenomenon to have tested that high - besides - which 
scale? Which test?  I must say candidly that I don't believe you!
Buckminster Fuller wasn't that high, Leonardo Da Vinci was estimated
as the highest IQ of all time at 220.
Now - IQ has never been correlated to ANYTHING significant!  This
is through extensive MENSA and psychological research.  I belong
to MENSA but would be the last to say that my IQ qualifies me for
anything....
      grumble mumble-.,./,./       JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Comnputer Consu
Date & Time: 06/02/90 23:23:45
Message Number  5518

>How does one become an independant computer consultant, anyway?...
 
By hanging out your shingle and pronouncing to the world at large:
"I know my shit! - Pay me big bucks." The tough part is proving it.
 
                                    JonBoy
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Arfritis       
Date & Time: 06/02/90 23:59:33
Message Number  5519

Grrrrr! Yip! Yip! Woof! Yip!
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 00:02:21
Message Number  5520

Aborting a message only lets you take back something before anyone else
has seen it.  If you've already put your foot in it and people are
jumping on your ass -- either because they don't agree with your point
or because you phrased your point in a way that pissed them off,
intentionally or not -- it's too late to abort the message; you're
either stuck defending the point you made badly (or even defending a
point you didn't mean to make at all), apologizing, or trying to find a
way to back away from the stance without apologizing, like, "Gosh, how
could you all take that so seriously" or "It's so nice to see my trick
of getting conversation	 going again worked."  This, of course, can piss
people as much as the original message did.
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: A Poem...      
Date & Time: 06/03/90 00:46:28
Message Number  5521

   The creak of the floor could be heard from a distance away as all the
famous authors and critics who had passed away, had come back to life
to claim another poet(?) for thier lunch........
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: THE DOCTOR          
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 00:49:25
Message Number  5522

Okay, I still don't get it? Which was the hunter/gatherer, the
chicken or the egg????
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: THE DOCTOR          
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 00:51:00
Message Number  5523

I prefer the attitude that the 'human' race is the one to be
racist about. We all s*ck the big one. This planet would be
better off with us around, or would the cockroaches and rats
take over?????
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: THE DOCTOR          
Subject: FemTalk (tm)   
Date & Time: 06/03/90 00:53:08
Message Number  5524

Would you agree that if WHAT you are affects WHAT I am, then I should
have the right to ACT upon it? If WHAT you are has no bearing on HOW
you ACT/INTERACT with society, then WHAT you are is HIDING in a
closet (or somewhere). The gays down the road didn't ask if they could
make-out in thier front yard while I'm riding my kids past on thier
bikes, but WHY can't I act upon it? The guys down the road don't have
to explain to my kids what's going on down there...I DO!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Griffin dormant
Date & Time: 06/03/90 00:58:49
Message Number  5525

You've got friends????
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Griffin dormant
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:00:44
Message Number  5526

At time like this, you should remember to climb a tree, cut the
soles off of your shoes and learn how to play the flute.
  
  
(oops, stole that from Fireside Theatre....sorry)
  
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:03:29
Message Number  5527

InfoWorld?????? Congrat's.......wow.....it's like the Enquirer of
computer rags. Nawwwwww, just kiddin'. Really sounds good. Wish ya
luck.........sssssssSNAKEBYTE .   .
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:05:44
Message Number  5528

If you did have AutoCAD experience (and I mean a lot), I could of
lined you up with someone in Atlanta that needs someone REAL bad and]
they're willing to pay in the 50's. I just hate Atlanta...yuck.
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Volvos         
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:10:30
Message Number  5529

"knockin' me out with those American thighs...."
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:19:02
Message Number  5531

>seemingly inteligent people......
I guess I can take that as a compliment......Beyond Chaos is a newly
birthed board and I'm there to see if it grows or becomes a still-born.
It's not hard to have some 'trash' ruin a board REAL fast.
   
(BTW-still up for a B'town Rally?? not REAL soon, but sometime....)
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:22:24
Message Number  5532

Last time I was able to get on to CC was May 26th. I was still
using the old number. My speaker's about shot on my modem, so it's
hard to tell what I'm getting bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz   BUSY
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:26:29
Message Number  5533

>tested at 180......
   
wow, must be hard to write when you're goin' that fast.....
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:28:01
Message Number  5534

The tests used to determine IQ are gaged to whatever age you are testing
It is not likely that an IQ will change much over someone's lifetime.
It is a measure of how well you can learn and how well you will retain
it....it is not a quantitative measure of knowledge as you may be
implying. I know people with high-100's IQs that couldn't get a 
spark plug out of their car if their life depended on it.
    
"Those of you who think you know everything are really
 annoying to those of us who do....."
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:32:44
Message Number  5535

1t'5 n1ce t0 5ee 50me0ne adm1t 0pen1y when a m15take ha5 been d0ne...
5555555555nakebyte
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:49:22
Message Number  5536

  MENSA is just a gr0up f0r sn0bbish geniuses. Just because y0u're smar
ter, y0u sh0udn't make y0rse1ves seem better. F0r instance, I have a 
g00d brain, but I'm sh0rt and n0t g00d in any sp0rt. I'm sure y0u have 
fau1ts, t00. I'm a high sch001 dr0p0ut(th0ugh I started 0ff bad in 8th 
grade), and I was tested at 180
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 01:55:01
Message Number  5537

      I think we (humans) sh0u1d c0exist with a11 creatures. I'm n0t a
big fan 0f science and techn010gy (th0ugh I have an Amiga). I w0u1d 
rather we revert back t0 the way we were bef0re what we are destr0ys us.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 06/03/90 02:16:12
Message Number  5538

Yes, lots of problems with the KJ translations.  But considering the
times and the limited amount of time allotted the committee, they
did tolerably well.  Despite many flaws in accuracy, in my opinion
it's still the most beautiful translation available in the English
language (that's from a literary standpoint).  I have problems
reading many of the contemporary translations.  I guess I'm old-
fashioned, but I don't really want to read that Mary was preggers,
I prefer her being 'with child'.
   What really irks me are the churches that use the paraphrased
Bibles as their main texts.  All the generations of scholarly
research to try to get the most accurate translations ... and some
bozos come along and paraphrase it any old way they want just to
make 'their' interpretation the ONLY one.  And generally these are
the same churches that preach the Bible is 100% accurate and
infallible and handed down directly from God.  Argggh!
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: THE DOCTOR          
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 02:33:09
Message Number  5539

> several organisms more advanced than planaria that are asexual
 
I know, I've dated several.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: THE DOCTOR          
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 02:34:26
Message Number  5540

> rwb....I mean damn, it's a free country.....
 
There's something I've meaning to ask you....  What the heck does
rwb stand for?
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Mitchell       
Date & Time: 06/03/90 02:47:30
Message Number  5541

The Joni Mitchell song is "Big Yellow Taxi".
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 02:56:09
Message Number  5542

I find it interesting that your third choice re:controversial posts
is the only one you say will 'piss people as much as the original
message."
   Seems that point one (defending your position) is pointless after
three rounds... worse, it's BORING and people get tired of it.  Point
two, apologizing, would be hypocritical if you truly believed in your
original message.  This might not piss-off people who like to be
kow-towed to, but hypocrisy from a friend I find unacceptable and
insulting.  Choice three is trying to get past the unpleasantness
with good spirits.  Would you truly prefer arguements with no
resolution to continue escalating?
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: afterlife      
Date & Time: 06/03/90 03:30:53
Message Number  5543

You are correct... not all death is can be postponed.  But I was not
refering to tramatic deaths.  A cardiac arrest is tramatic, but it
is not do to unforseable circumstances.  Nor does it usually have any
thing to do with massive hemoraging.  Nearly all deaths are directly
related to the heart stopping.  The only death I can not think of
that is not caused by the heart stopping in some way or another
is a severe head trauma.  Anyway, our mind can control our involentary
muscles such as the heart, the diaphram ect.  Studies in biofeedback
have shown that our mind can do many things... yes it is
> /neat/ 
what our brain can do.  So, if we can control those muscles in a 
relaxed situation, why couldn't we control them when our bodies are
dead, but our brain is still barely functioning.  Who knows what our
brain is capable of doing.  Most people don't even use 75% of their
brain, so who is to say what we can a can't do.
One thing we can do to postpone death is not to step out in front of
an onrushing train!
        Skeptical but not pessomistic
                   Tree
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/03/90 03:44:21
Message Number  5544

I meant 3 books a week.  But that aside,  when I read a book, I do
not look at the individual letters, or even the individual words for
the most part.  Rather I look at groups of words, sometimes whole
sentences.  Even then, I am looking for concepts and Ideas.  Syntax
is important to be sure.  But when one reads quite a bit and writes
rarely, one tends to overlook things like spelling. 
   By the way, the only valid IQ tests deal only in symbols... universal
symbols.  People should not judge other people by how they speak, if
the people who are judging do not know the people language who they
are judging, then it would not matter how inteligent the person was,
the person would sound like a gibbering idiot.  Use of Language is
not a valid indication of IQ.   But I agree that it can help get an
Idea across.
    
        Spelling Tree
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: ANGEL               
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 06/03/90 04:01:44
Message Number  5545

  Ekk1esea(sp?) greek. 0r hebrew. 0r s0mething. means assemb1y. referred
t0 as church...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: ect.           
Date & Time: 06/03/90 08:24:04
Message Number  5549

I agree, some of it *sounds* pretty weird.  Like there are several books
listed that purport to be "messages" from a "wise, kind, loving etc ad
nauseum" race that live "in the future/past/galaxy/alternate universe"
that want to show us the way.  The "message" is usually received by
telepathy which I guess is still more *respectable* than channelling.
Lemme see - oh yeah one race is cat people (morphs!!!), another kinda
resembles the Mayans but are "much older" - sheesh.
 
Some other strange reading is to be had if you pusue Kabbalism.  I got
interested in the allegation that when Christ impressed the Rabbis at
the age of 12 he was indoctrinated into the Essene sect.  Now the Essene
sect are known as the Jewish Mystics and Tarot cards, and Kabbalism
(orders of like - The Golden Dawn) claim to be related and descended
from the Essenes plus teachings that are far older than recorded
Hebrew faith.  Anyway - you wanna see some strange stuff about treading
the universe in the spacecraft of your imagination - it's all there.
 
                                 JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 08:44:32
Message Number  5550

This is true - I thought you were referring to those messages that
had one kind of vibes at the top and by the bottom had run outta steam
and the tone is now flabby.  Like "maybe I was a little strident so 
I'll chill out".  Wimp!
                                      JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 08:48:20
Message Number  5551

Not to mention the 
'50's' barely gets it in Atlanta unless you commute 50 miles.  Getting 
as bad as San Francisco.
                                     
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 08:51:44
Message Number  5552

Screeeeetttttttccccchhhhhhhhhhh!  Slam on the brakes whoa!!!!
#1 - While there may well be "snobbish geniuses" in MENSA, that is NOT
     what it is for.  It is simply a social forum for intelligent people
     along with some research into IQ and the gifted plus some work
     with young people (like in school).
#2 - I seem to recall that I stated my IQ did not qualify me for DIDDLY
     except MENSA membership.  My common sense, wit, panache and general
     aura of benevolent charisma is what qualifies me as "better".
#3 - being short and not good at any sports hardly qualifies as faults.
     They are simply conditions that shaped your life in ways that 
     reflect *your* perception of yourself and *your* attitude towards
     coping with life.
#4 - Dropping out of High School was a decision on your part that is
     a direct indicator of a lack of common sense on your part - and
     frankly puzzles me in a discussion on IQ.
 The whole intent of my message was simply to state my belief that the
figure of "180 IQ" was:
A) Some really weird test that gives outrageous numbers to stroke your
   ego. (let's see... if I  use pi as a multiplier does that give it the
   blessings of the ancient Greeks?)
B) You made it up to try and impress/intimidate someone.  Bad course of
   action on a board where most of the denizens really are of a higher
   mental calibre than J.Q. Public.
                                       JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 06/03/90 09:07:48
Message Number  5553

I sincerely hope that Turtle gets off his butt and starts the Best of
Altered soon or I will have to volunteer.  That line about Mary deserves
to be in it...  I think the whole idea behind the paraphrased Bibles is
for people that complain about how hard the language is and how they 
can't understand it.  These are the Pablum Christians that are waiting
for someone to spoon-feed them what they should believe. This is how
jerks like Bakker get into power and unfortunately tragedies like
Jonestown happen.  The Bible is one of those books that has to be read
in the context of what you are trying to get out of it.  You wanna read
a story - there are a lot of pretty good ones - some pretty racy.  Take
, for example, after the flight from Sodom & Gomorrah and Lot's wife
was turned into a pillar of salt.  I will leave it an an exercise to 
the interested to read what Lot's daughters decided about dear old dad.
Remember that they are a product of the environment of Sodom & Gomorrah
 
                                   JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Mitchell       
Date & Time: 06/03/90 09:17:21
Message Number  5554

I knew that!  Who could ever forget it?  Her voice, the tune, the words
they all met in celestial harmony!!!   Well.... maybe it was just a good
song. Heheh...  Seriously - I still confuse it with the song by Harry
Chapin (now THERE's a guy I miss!!!).  There's a new guy from Ireland
(Luka Bloom) that plays a mean 12 string (my instrument of choice)
that is a pretty good bard - but I do miss Chapin.
 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/03/90 09:24:46
Message Number  5555

I beg to differ sir.  Why do you think that it apparent to all on this
board?  Reading is fundamentally an exercise in pattern matching.  If
the pattern is flawed then the reading process is interrupted while the
offending bit of ink gets studied an extra millisecond or so.  To do
this - the brain calls on higher level functions and thus it is "noticed
If what you say is true - you don't notice - then your lower level
functions are either in control totally , in which case they should be
sent to Siberia to do time for their impudence - or the higher functions
are playing golf/looking at pretty girls and should be locked in a
closet with an abacus and not let out until they have computed pi to
the 90'th decimal place.
   All recognized IQ tests have MOSTLY symbolism as the vehicle.  MENSA
even goes to the extent to give you at least 2 supervised tests one of
which (in my case ) was British - I guess to measure what effect 
cultural differences made in the administering of the test.
 
                                        JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: BLACK MAGIC         
Subject: Get together   
Date & Time: 06/03/90 09:39:58
Message Number  5556

Hey Lady!  Why don't you give me a call at work - 355-9761 extension
2029.  If I'm not there my digital mail can take a number to call you
back on.  It's kind of difficult to break the ice sometimes - this
board is tuff because of the handles.   Anyway - I would just like to 
do something that interests us both.  I'd be just as happy going for a
bike ride as anything.  Tacos are just a very informal thing that I do
on Wednesdays after a hard day at work.  The time varies depending on
when I decide I've had enuf!  I don't know if you like to drink, or even
if you are old enough to drink (legally that is - and I personally 
think that it's stupid).  Anyway I like doing most things except 
dancing - mostly because I never learned (I was always in the band or
rapping with them).  I like going to any kind of museum or art gallery,
I like to walk/hike/camp out, bike ride/sunday drive, I even like
to (careful - don't faint!) to go shopping.  All I really need to know
is when where and what. Oh yeah - Monday night is Buffalo Wings nite!
We usually look like jackals at a carcass on the Serengeti when we do
wings so it's not for the faint of heart!
					                                           Jon
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Worf? Where?   
Date & Time: 06/03/90 11:31:52
Message Number  5557

> (Amok Time)
 
  Ah, but Kirk got off easy there. Right after he hijacked the ship to 
Vulcan, they said he could divert. Maybe he would just stretch it a bit 
and say he waited for the response... Anyway, T'Pau might have had 
something to say the the Federation if Kirk WAS court martialed.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Movies         
Date & Time: 06/03/90 11:40:59
Message Number  5558

  Litchfield Cinemas in on Cortez Road in Bradenton. From US 41, it's 
out towards the beaches.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 11:46:05
Message Number  5559

> still up for a B'town Rally??
 
  Yeah! I actually can't wait. I want to do it RIGHT this time. And get
some revenge against people who like to blame others for mistakes made 
by the whole team...(Siesta Key-ha!!)
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 11:48:57
Message Number  5560

>5555555555nakebyte
 
 PLEASE! Don't do that unless you have a problem with your keyboard! 
It's /really annoying/...
===========

From: TREE BEARD          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: skirts III     
Date & Time: 06/03/90 12:33:00
Message Number  5562

     Pattern matching, hmmmm.  Correct, i'm sure you are right.  But
the fact is, I am an artist.  If I were to look at each individual
brush stroke every time I looked at one of my paintings, I would never
get finished.  This is not to say that It does not take a long time
to do a piece of art, because it does.  Now as to how this relates to
what you were speaking of,  the fact is that most artist start with
broad, bold strokes.  They try not to limit themselves until the very
end of the picture.  Now, that is not to say that our higher brains 
are out to lunch, but it does mean that both conscience, and un-
conscience  parts of the brain are working in tandem.  Many people
deny their sub (not un)conscience  completely.  And many criminals,
habitual drug users ect. deny there conscience or upper brain level
functions.  Now, when I read a book, I let both my conscience and
subconscience absorb the words.  (and or patterns which are actually
SYMBOLS)  Now think of your brain as a spellchecker on Word Perfect.
Suppose you were typing along at a furiouse pase.  Now this typing
is actually the relating of a thought.  Spellchecker is trying to
keep up with you.  It could not possibly, as you said the brain 
slows down and tries to call on a higher brain function.  But the
higher brain says "Wait Im trying to think about my own thought here
(the sentence), leave me alone, well do lunch or something), so the
brain merrily passes over the misspelling and continues to type out
the Idea.  Ahhh, now we get to a period, the brain says hold on, I
have time for a Ham and Cheese sandwich, maybe I'll check my spelling!
Nahh, my Ideas are to important, I have to get them out of my head
before they fragment!  Now this, I believe is why I have trouble 
spelling, and why it does not bother me if someone else is a poor
speller!  Perhaps you did hit on something when you mentioned a
culteral difference.  Spelling and use of word could be directly related
to ones culture.  Not a new thought!
            Tree
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Incidentally,  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 13:33:30
Message Number  5563

Ah well, I *don't* have a lot of AutoCAD experience.  I'm a fast learner
but Performance Computers wasn't willing to train (even odder when you
consider all they really wanted me to know how to do was install the
program in the field).
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 13:35:49
Message Number  5564

Co-existing with all creatures and co-existing with science and
technology are not mutually exclusive options.  "What we are" cannot
destroy us any more than a dolphin's dolphin-ness can destroy the race
of dolphins, and reverting back to pre-technological days (assuming this
is what you're implying) will not help things.  After all, we weren't
aware of how badly things were going for the planet until we had enough
scientific knowledge to learn the damage we were doing to the biosphere,
and until fairly recently, we didn't have the technology to reverse it.
If the planet had the same population level it does now -- or even the
same population	 level it had in, say, the '50s -- and we had the same
*knowledge* level that we had before the industrial revolution -- well,
we probably wouldn't have made it to the '90s to begin with.  What can
destroy us is "what we do."
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ANGEL               
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 13:42:56
Message Number  5565

I've seen debates (not necessarily on this BBS) where people end up
saying things they don't really agree with because they start feeling
defensive; this usually happens because they jumped into an discussion
in a way that immediately turned it into an argument.  Sometimes
apologizing for what has been said is the most logical option, but it's
one that almost nobody ever takes.  Also, as I (think I) said, the
apology may well be for the way the point was made, not for the point
itself; a lot of people would rather duck the issue with a "gosh, I was
just kidding" type line than say, "I guess I said that a little too
strongly, and I'm sorry about that."
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: substitutions  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 13:51:53
Message Number  5566

> ...Like "maybe I was a little strident so I'll chill out".
 
I've seen some of those; I think it's generally better to erase the
entire message and start over if you get to that point, assuming you
think the point is worth saving.  It is very easy to be over-strident
in debates, especially, it seems, in BBS debates.  This might be because
you can't gauge how others involved are reacting to what you say while
you're saying it, and it's very easy to post long stretches of purple
prose passionately defending your point when nobody can stop you in
process to say, "you're going overboard here."  Despite the fact that
you have a lot longer to compose responses, it is paradoxically a lot
easier to put one's paw in one's mouth on a BBS, too -- and, it seems,
a lot harder to remove it.,
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Richard Nixon  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:09:16
Message Number  5567

>LBJ was the crookedest SOB to EVER walk into the White House...
 
And let us not forget Ronnie Raygun--while he wasn't terribly corrupt
himself, he turned such a blind eye to the goings-on in his government
that we ended up with blatant, rampant corruption in every level of
the bureaucracy. It's hard to say which is more distressing--the fact
that the corruption existed on such an enormous scale or the fact
that everyone was so relaxed about enforcing minimal standards that
nobody even bothered trying to hide it.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Small fib      
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:16:02
Message Number  5568

>...smokers are being browbeaten for what is essentially a right on
>their part.
 
I could, of course, point out that one could argue smokers don't have a
/right/ to smoke any more than heroin junkies have a /right/ to shoot
up; smoking is simply a more tolerated form of self-abuse (but one that
can be regulated just as easily as any other form of recreational drug
use). But, since I really don't want to open that particular can of
flames, I won't.
                --A tactful Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: PARTY!!!       
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:19:26
Message Number  5569

>We can reserve Turtle Beach...
 
The problem with Turtle Beach is the abundance of sand coupled with
the lack of video equipment. While it's somehow appropriate, I'm not
sure how successful a beach Furry Party would be...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:38:10
Message Number  5570

>This planet would be better off with[out] us around, or would the
>cockroaches and rats take over?????
 
Humanity won't last forever; eventually the world will in fact be free
of us, and will probably get along quite nicely. We may take a good deal
of the indigent life on this planet when we go, but that's no biggie;
mass extinction is nothing new (no land animal with a body mass of over
about 13 kg or so survived the dinosaurs...) We may also physically
destroy the planet itself, but that's unlikely, and in any event is
a risk any planet runs anyway...we may work out our differences and
get splattered into eternity by a rogue asteroid (just like in the video
game). No big deal; just wait around long enough and you'll get your
wish.
               --A fatalistic Turtle
Wait around long enough after that and you'll get to see the heat death
of the entire universe...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: FemTalk (tm)   
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:42:36
Message Number  5571

>The guys down the road don't have to explain to my kids what's going
>on down there...I DO!!!
 
So what's your point? Are you trying to put that forward as a reason
to limit their (the guys down the street) activities? Sooner or later
your kids will be exposed to that sort of behavior no matter what you
do, and I for one have never bought the "We must protect our children!"
argument. Is your argument really "I want to protect my childern," or
is it "I'm uncomfortable with this idea and would rather be able to
ignore it than to be forced to answer questions about it"?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: IQ & Courts... 
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:46:47
Message Number  5572

>It is not likely that an IQ will change much over someone's lifetime.
 
That's not true; while that's the way the theory goes, it seems that
the younger the testee the more likely he is to get a higher score. My
IQ was tested at around 150 when I was in 1st grade and at 132 in
junior high...figure at that rate it should be about 76 now (applying
statistical formulae upon those two points, of course). I am inherently
distrustful of IQ tests in general and all the claims people make about
their stability and relevance to anything in particular.
                --A Turtle who's slippin' fast...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:51:40
Message Number  5573

>I w0uld rather we revert back t0 the way we were bef0re what we are
>destr0ys us.
 
Um...you can't feed 4 billion people without technology, dude. You wanna
see death and destruction on a wide scale, try going back to "the way
we were"...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: afterlife      
Date & Time: 06/03/90 14:57:07
Message Number  5574

>We can control the muscles of the heart...
 
Not if the heart has stopped functioning because its blood supply has
been cut off, which is the root cause of most heart attacks to begin
with. Once the muscle starts dying, you can't expect it to respond to
commands from your brain very well any more.
 
>Most people don't use 75% of their brains...
 
I /HATE/ that!!! I see it everywhere, and I HATE when people say that!
It sounds neat, but it just plain isn't true. That statistic came from
early research involving training rats to run through a maze, then
removing chunks of their cerebrum and seeing if they could still do it--
the point being to try to localize the center of memory. Well, it turns
out that there is no center of memory...you can remove tissue from
about three-quarters of the cerebrum (as long as you don't hit
anything immediately involved with sustaining life) and the rat will
still remember the path through the maze. It'll limp or stagger or
show some other defecit, but it can still get through the maze.
 
In humans, the visual association cortex, audio association cortex,
and motor areas together account for more than half of the processing
power of the cerebrum, so it's obviously and /provably/ untrue that
"people only use a quarter of their brains." Even very localized damage
anywhere will cause /some/ sort of functional impairment in people.
                    --A neurological turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: WYVERNERS           
Subject: -*-            
Date & Time: 06/03/90 15:28:06
Message Number  5575

"Hm, um, huh? Hey! Where7d Chip go?" the reptile says as Angel's
song fades away into the void of eternal nothingness. "Um, where'd
the glowing chick go, too?" The turtle looks around him with the air of
someone who's trying to remember what he had for breakfast exactly
twenty-two years and three days ago and is being hampered by a large
and rabid dog trying patiently to gnaw his left foot off. "Um, where'd
Wezip go, for that matter? I think I should sit down." Turtle seats
himself at the bar and treats the establishment's occupants at large
to one of his favorite puzzled expressions. "You know," he observes
with his trademarked incicisive insight into the world at large, "this
is turning into an odd day."
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: joke           
Date & Time: 06/03/90 15:43:00
Message Number  5576

 
 Why did Richard Nix0n watch Deep Thr0at 5 times?
 
 
Because he wanted t0 get it d0wn (P)pat.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 15:45:42
Message Number  5577

 I'11 rephrase it. What we d0 because 0f what we are...
  Y0u'11 see, s0mething big'11 happen and then we'11 get smart.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 15:51:16
Message Number  5578

  My ideas are st0p  making cures! 0verp0pu1ati0n is due t0 a11 the 
cures t0 m0st every disease! Pe0p1e 90 years 01d sh0u1dn't be put 0n a
1ife supp0rt machine, they're n0t enj0ying it! Think. If s0me 0f the 
cures weren't ar0und the p0pu1ati0n w0u1d be a bit m0re stabi1ized and 
the cyc1e 0f 1ife w0u1dn't be s0 dragged 0ut!
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Courts of Chaos
Date & Time: 06/03/90 17:45:37
Message Number  5579

I was about to post a message to that end. Thank you for saving me tim
e
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: ALL                 
Subject: -?-            
Date & Time: 06/03/90 19:51:45
Message Number  5580

This is a test message.
 
Yep, that's right, we had system trouble again today...during routine
maintenance, a message appeared that couldn't be deleted, and, well,
have you ever seen those neat things that are made of two panes of
glass with water and sand between, that make all the swirly designs
when you flip 'em over? Have you ever seen what happens when you DROP
one of them? That's kinda like what the message base looked like. So,
Yours Truly had to spend a good deal of time cleaning sand out of the
message base, and while he was at it wrote a program to kinda collect
some of the mess semi-automatically. Sorta. Anyway, this message might
explode when I try to save it, so I'm delaying things as long as I can,
but, well, here goes...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: IQ & Courts... 
Date & Time: 06/03/90 20:26:49
Message Number  5583

The tests are screwed up -- I think the younger you are, the more
accurate the test is -- When you get older, IQ tests become a 
combination of academic & learning potential tests -- One moment
they are asking you "What's Missing In This Picture?" and then the
next "Who was the vice-president of the 14th President of the
United States?"  Whereas if you are younger, you aren't expected to know
the 2nd question, so they give you a certain amount of information
to learn from or utilities to use, and you have to figure things out.
 
BTW -- My IQ was tested at either 134 or 136 when I was in 5th grade,
I forget which one -- I'd like to take one again and see how much it
has "changed."
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: validation     
Date & Time: 06/03/90 21:37:26
Message Number  5584

> Ekk1esea(sp?) greek. 0r hebrew. 0r s0mething. means assemb1y...
 
Thanks for the info, but what are you talking about?
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Worf? Where?   
Date & Time: 06/03/90 21:44:49
Message Number  5585

Speaking of AMOK TIME, I always wondered who had the unenviable task
of telling T'Pau she had been suckered by a lowly, illogical human.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: TREE BEARD          
Subject: grammar again  
Date & Time: 06/03/90 21:50:03
Message Number  5586

As long as we seem to be trouncing the spelling/grammar debate again,
thought I'd share a section from writer's guidelines from Asimov's
SF Magazine:  "Another common cause (all too common, we're afraid) of
rejection is the obvious lack of basic English compositional skills on
the part of the author.  By this we mean that the writer has misspelled
or misused everyday words, and/or mispunctuated same.  Stories are
rejected on this basis because a writer _must_ be familiar with the
tools of his or her trade, just as an electrician or carpenter must."
Or, as in your example, an artist must know his tools.  You say your
"Ideas are to important..." in that case, I would think you would
want to make sure they were communicated so that everyone could
understand them.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: SPE11WIND           
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 22:04:05
Message Number  5587

No, thank you.  I rather like the advent of modern medicine.  I don't
long for the good-ole-days of the black death, and routinely
quarantining entire towns for bubonic plague, or burning the homes
of small pox victims, or the annual yellow fever epidemics, etc.
I still remember two summers as a child when no one was allowed to go
swimming anywhere because of the fear of polio.  The combination of
black wreaths and yellow quarantine placards on front doors is a
nostalgic treat I would wish to avoid.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 22:26:55
Message Number  5590

Donthen, what's your problem?
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 22:30:21
Message Number  5591

Considering the way you are interpreting my messages of late, allow me
to clarify my last post.  It is NOT insulting, derisive, meant to 
offend or any other nasty connotations anyone may wish to read into it
It is simply a question by which I am seeking information.  Namely,
what is your problem [i.e., in regards to me].  Frankly, I am baffled.
Is there animosity between us that I should be aware of?  You seem to
be indirectly requiring an apology from me.  For what?  What have I
done to you that I am supposed to apologize for?  How have I hurt you?
Please tell me.  I, at least, will tell a person when I am offended,
and why, and then leave it at that.  I try not to leave a friend
guessing, or have a third party try to extricate an apology for me for
the unspecified offense.
     If this is a board where a person cannot express unpopular
opinions, why bother to communicate at all?  And, honest to God, I
don't know what you are upset about (I know which message you are
upset about, but what the heck was in there to trigger anger?  None
was felt here when I wrote it.  And don't tell me that that is
cop-out.  It's the truth.  And, Donthen, the message wasn't even
addressed to you.  The person it was sent to, has not publicly
required an apology or even in the text of his messages, seemed at
all upset; it is YOU who says he is upset, yet YOU are the only one
expressing that emotion.)  In the original message, I expressed
respect for Turtle and his intelligence.  I think he's more than
capable of fighting his own battles.... do you think he is not?
     Whatever problem you have with me, address it TO me, not to
someone else.  Why do you think I'm lieing in my posts (I read
'cop-out' as a pretty euphemism for 'lie')?
Is there really any point in discussing anything with you in regards
to this subject if I am not to be believed?  How long do we continue
in this stalemate with YOU convinced you're RIGHT (capitals) and I'm
wrong?  This is your territory, if you wish me to disappear, tell me.
(...contin
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 23:12:21
Message Number  5592

But don't talk around me.  I'm not used to being dealt with in so
round-about a fashion.  And you have always struck me as a direct
individual.
    This is getting quite long, but I'm trying to be up-front with you.
And, to be honest, you're starting to piss me off.  What the heck is
going on?  Please, tell me.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ANGEL               
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 23:18:33
Message Number  5593

I don't think I deserved that flame.... did it occur to you that the
reason those messages were "round-about," not directed at you and
pretty general in nature was because THEY WERE INTENDED TO BE?
 
Yes, I was mildly annoyed at the posts both you and Jonboy made after
setting off your respective flamechains (his about Christianity, yours
about conservative-bashing) that were essentially "Gosh, I was just
amazed at the reaction I got, let's sweep it under the electronic rug
and go on."  And yes, I still believe you took Turtle's post far too
seriously and shouldn't have been nearly as surprised as you were when
people told you that, considering you wrote a very vehement spew about
it that would have been very difficult for anyone on this board NOT to
take seriously.
 
However, I was writing about general debating tactics because, well,
that's the subject that came up.  The statements could have as easily
been applied to Jonboy's "It's so swell how I got things going again"
message.  They also could be extremely easily applied to cartoonists
Dan Flahive and Chris Grant, whom I frequently get flamed by on the
Rowrbrazzle BBS -- in fact, some of it (the part about continuing to
defend a point, becoming more and more volatile, even when other
people are only attacking the way the point was stated) was written
with them in mind more than anyone on this board at all.
 
I apologize if you thought my message to Jonboy was a veiled attack
against you, but that reaction is somewhat mystifying to me.  You
already knew I thought you were guilty of weedy debating tactics, but
that's hardly a devastating complaint.
 
As I said, my message sounded general because it WAS general.  I'm sorry
it offended you; it should have, at most, expressed a distaste for
a method of "debating" I see too often on BBS's.
===========

From: SPE11WIND           
To: ANGEL               
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 06/03/90 23:55:00
Message Number  5594

   If y0u trace s0me diseases back, they were started by us, in 0ur
quest t0 better 0urse1ves, we f0rg0t what rea11y c0unted...sigh
 
  I wish I had a p0ny...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Worf? Where?   
Date & Time: 06/04/90 05:04:46
Message Number  5595

>...telling T'Pau she had been suckered by a lowly, illogical human.
 
  Well, evidently they didn't have any problems with Kirk, since they 
performed the ancient ceremony of transfering the katra into a person 
(Star Trek III)
===========

From: BEATLE              
To:     A LL            
Subject: animation      
Date & Time: 06/04/90 05:10:32
Message Number  5596

 First of all, I was told by Ken Ober that a bunch of people will be 
heading up to Tampa on the 16th to see "Akira"(sp?) and I was sort of 
invited to tag along. Anyways, if I'm going, I need to know if the date 
above is correct, what time everyone will be meeting at the car pool 
location, when we'll all be back, and (most important) how much it will 
cost...
 
  Another animation thing I heard about was that the new film "Rescuers 
Down Under" (out this summer) weill be the first ever animated motion 
picture fully computer-colored. I assume since cartoons are a different 
matter than live action, the result will look MUCH more impressive than 
a colorized movie... they also use more colors.
 
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: ANGEL               
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/04/90 13:29:49
Message Number  5597

Donthen has been a Dip for a ew days now -- Nooke knows why!  :)
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: ???????        
Date & Time: 06/04/90 13:33:31
Message Number  5598

Gee, Ken, my typing is getting bad as of late!  Duh!  EEEwwww....
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: PARTY!!!       
Date & Time: 06/04/90 17:22:20
Message Number  5600

If we could find some extension cords, an electrical outlet, and find
a way to keep all the bugs away, and cool the beach down, it would be
fine.
===========

