read new nonstop follow
93372 21-AUG 18:29 New Uploads
     PCPower news letter typo
     From: DOMM         To: ALL

In the PCPower News - article 1396 - it was reported that:

>..."D.A.V.I.D"... was an "OS/2 derived" thing.

Well...after consulting with Mike Rowen..I was assured it must be a typo.

This misaligned information just would't do ....so....I emailed them...

Just got the reply... says...it has now been fixed to read "OS-9" <G>

(enough is enough, ya know?

---Dom

-*-

93375 21-AUG 21:26 New Uploads
     RE: PCPower news letter typo (Re: Msg 93372)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: DOMM

  (hehe) Yea, I can see them scratch'n there heads.. "What happened
to 3 to 8!!!!"  <g>.

--
   John -

 Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something.


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93373 21-AUG 21:25 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93370)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: WDTV5


  Gene,

  I have no idea who that could be .... :)

--
   John -

 Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something.


-*-

93377 21-AUG 21:41 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93355)
     From: DBREEDING    To: 01GEN40

 > If I am not too mistaken, I think I posted such a message here right
 > after Bob was released.

So this is probably where I got it in the first place <G>

 > Saw it in one of the computer publications
 > here in San Diego and thought people here might enjoy reading it.  I
 > laughed so hard I fell out of my chair.

I thought it was really neat.  Of course it exaggerated a little, I
suppose, but in a way, it truly captured the essence of MS.

 > By the way, does anyone know the pronunciation of BOB if it is
 > spelled backwards? ;-)

Let's see.. I'll write a program that will reverse the letters and
I'll have it print the new name out.

I'll have to see what it looks like first   <VBG>

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93378 22-AUG 00:54 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93373)
     From: WDTV5        To: JOHNBAER

Touche'

-*-

93387 23-AUG 00:20 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93365)
     From: WA2EGP       To: DBREEDING

But why do the big guys give us so much ammunition?  Actually, I'm surprised
that the people doing the satire haven't been contacted by Microslop's lawyers
to cease and desist.  I just about every news article about weak 95 mentions
that there will be bugs.  They aren't even falling back on the old saying that
bugs are just undocumented features.  I saw one article where a Mac user
was blasting weak 95 by saying Macs were doing what was was being hyped several
years ago.  Gee, does that sound familiar?

-*-

93388 23-AUG 00:21 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93377)
     From: WA2EGP       To: DBREEDING

Actually the next release of BOB will have a second "O" in it.  Somewhat
describes the user.

-*-

93409 24-AUG 21:27 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93387)
     From: DBREEDING    To: WA2EGP

 > But why do the big guys give us so much ammunition?  Actually, I'm
 > surprised that the people doing the satire haven't been contacted by
 > Microslop's lawyers to cease and desist.

Well, I'd guess that if they went after these, it would be some rather
bad publicity.

 > I saw one article where a Mac user
 > was blasting weak 95 by saying Macs were doing what was was being hyped
 > several years ago.  Gee, does that sound familiar?

In the US News story I saw, there was a sidebar by a Mac user comparing
MacOS and Win95.

They are actually right about the way Win 95 looks more like a Mac than
previously.  It's sad that the most popular system going has to upgrade
to catch up with the underdogs.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93410 24-AUG 21:28 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93388)
     From: DBREEDING    To: WA2EGP

 > Actually the next release of BOB will have a second "O" in it.  Somewhat
 > describes the user.

Probably _very_ descriptive.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93429 26-AUG 13:24 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93320)
     From: JOHNREED     To: DBREEDING


            Another OS-9er in Windoze-land.

            NO, this is NOT another "goodbye" note.  OS-9 remains alive
            and well on my desk, and the MM/1a will be my "main"
            computer until it smokes or gets hopelessly outmoded -- then
            I will get ANOTHER OS-9 machine.

            OK, I couldn't resist the hype.  I went out and bought
            Windows-95 for the messydos machine.  So far, so good.
            Installation was pretty much "idiot-proof" and took about 45
            minutes. Windows-95  looks to me like a cross between a Mac
            and OS2.  Everything works, and seems faster than before.
            Christie's cute koala videos come up real fast now.  That
            was the BIG test.  If  it couldn't show those koalas,
            Christie would have rejected Win-95 completely.  She hauled
            me all over a zoo in Chicago this spring looking for the
            little critters. (They were asleep).

            It seems pretty good at identifying hardware.  It correctly
            identified my  VGA card, CD, faxmodem and sound card and set
            them up without asking a lot of questions.  I watched it
            hunt down and interrogate the modem (you know the kind,
            generic, white box, not a clue who built it).  It left a
            text file describing the hardware hunt.

             Early in the installation process, the machine warned me
            that it had found OS2 on the hard drive (I'll swear it was
            holding its nose), and said I might not be able to use it
            after installing Windows-95.  The instructions referred me
            to the "Setup.txt" file for further instructions re OS2.
            That file contains a couple lines about making OS2 work, and
            a couple paragraphs on deleting OS2 completely.

            I never did get real fond of OS2, anyway.  It was slower
            than Windows 3.1 and tended to crash now and then.  I got it
            to boot after the Win-95 install, and it worked , but it
            didn't like the new windows programs (surprise).  I decided
            to kill off OS2 for now, I still have the two CD's it came
            on, and the dozen or so floppies full of patches that make
            the CD's work, so I can put it back on if I want to.

            OS-9000 and LINUX are still alive and well.  I have to boot
            them from floppies now, because Windows-95 found and killed
            the boot manager I was using.   It was the Mark Williams
            Boot Manager that came with COHERENT, and it had managed to
            survive and work long after I removed the COHERENT system,
            but it couldn't hide from Win-95.  Snoopy and very selfish -
            - it wants the whole computer for itself.  It didn't mess
            with the non-DOS partitions though.  I finally found that
            boot manager stashed in a backup file.  Might install it or
            LINUX LILO loader later -- floppy boots are OK for now.

            I have (so far) resisted the temptation to check out the
            Microsoft Network.  I think I am subscribing to enough
            online services for now.  (More than enough, some might
            say).  I'll have to read the instructions --  maybe there
            are some free hours I can use and then quit.

            I did fill out the online registration form and let the
            machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere.    I expect to
            get a lot of junk mail.

            This is painful to admit, fellow OS-9ers, but I think Mr.
            Gates and crew have done a pretty good job here.  We can
            point out that OS-9, UNIX, (LINUX, etc),  Macs, Amigas etc
            have been doing some of this for a long time, but now the
            OTHER 90% of the world has a pretty capable system.

            A good feature of  Win-95 is the ability to set up
            "shortcuts".  You can get into a program fairly fast, then
            shove that silly rodent to the back of the desk, grab the
            keyboard, and do something useful.  I like that.

            John Wainwright

-*-

93431 26-AUG 16:57 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429)
     From: BOISY        To: JOHNREED

 > Another OS-9er in Windoze-land.

Alas, I came back from California with a new 486DX/33 notebook so I can
work on the road.  And it has Windows 95 on it too.

 > I did fill out the online registration form and let the
 > machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere.    I expect to
 > get a lot of junk mail.

I did that too.  Nice, easy way to register.

 > This is painful to admit, fellow OS-9ers, but I think Mr.
 > Gates and crew have done a pretty good job here.  We can
 > point out that OS-9, UNIX, (LINUX, etc),  Macs, Amigas etc
 > have been doing some of this for a long time, but now the
 > OTHER 90% of the world has a pretty capable system.

Yes, I must agree here.  It is a nice piece of software.
--
Boisy G. Pitre__    __  __              Delphi:  BOISY
          |_   _|   \ \/ /              CompuServe:  74464,3005
I use...   _| |_     >  <               Internet:  boisy@os9er.waukee.ia.us
          |_____|NFO/_/\_\PRESS 1.2.0   OS-9 -- King of Operating Systems

-*-

93441 27-AUG 09:44 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: JOHNREED

   John,

> OS-9000 and LINUX are still alive and well.  I have to boot
> them from floppies now, because Windows-95 found and killed
> the boot manager I was using.

  Wonderfull.. did you get a prompt that this was going to happen,
or did the installer just go ahead and do it ?

> I did fill out the online registration form and let the
> machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere.  I expect to
> get a lot of junk mail.

  I would be leery of using that.  I don't have first hand experience
with this, but have heard that it snoops your hard drive.

  John


-*-

93442 27-AUG 11:45 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93377)
     From: 01GEN40      To: DBREEDING

Hi Dave,
  The piece I posted here WAS greatly exaggerated, but, in my opinion
so is Microsquish.  I would say that this is were you read it.
  $300,000,000 for promotional gimics, HA!  That would be equivalent
of me spending $20.00 at an arcade!  Must be nice to have that kind
of dough to throw away.  WINDOZE on a submarine?  Give me a break,
PLEASE!  Although, if you think about it, there ARE submarines with
windows.  I DO NOT see his point of experiencing being on a sub-
marine WITHOUT windows, do you?  Is there supposed to be some sig-
nificant value or point to that?  If there is, I surely fail to see
it.  But, then again, I DO NOT see "through" WINDOZE.
  I went to the Computer Expo here in San Diego last weekend.  Here
is were they (Microsquish) debued(sp) WINDOZE 95.  They had this 15
foot plexi-glass box filled with software packages.  You had to make
a correct guess as to how many boxes were in there and I guess you
would win WINDOZE 95.  My son and I bypassed their booth and went
straight over to the OS/2 booth.  They were giving away copies of
OS/2 in their drawings.  I did not enter any.  Of course, I DID
spend most of my time at the OS-9 booth.  One thing puzzles me
though,  I fail to understand why it is catagorized as "New Tech-
nology"  Oh well, at least it was there, again.  I must say that
the UG did set up one impressive display booth.  There were many
people stopping by and asking questions.  Too bad they did not get
the MM/1 in time to display it as well.
  Thanks for the reply...  See ya among the stars...

LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER> ** In whatever form it is in!
Peace and Long Life...
Siran of Vulcan (CMDR)
-= GEN =-

-*-

93443 27-AUG 12:13 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93388)
     From: 01GEN40      To: WA2EGP

 >Actually the next release of BOB will have a second "O" in it.  Somewhat
 >describes the user.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh, Oh NO... CRASH  Falling out of chair!

-*-

93450 27-AUG 15:47 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JOHNREED

 > Another OS-9er in Windoze-land.
 >
 > NO, this is NOT another "goodbye" note.  OS-9 remains alive
 > and well on my desk, and the MM/1a will be my "main"
 > computer until it smokes or gets hopelessly outmoded -- then
 > I will get ANOTHER OS-9 machine.

Well, as long as you're still faithful <G>

 > OK, I couldn't resist the hype.  I went out and bought
 > Windows-95 for the messydos machine.  So far, so good.
 > Installation was pretty much "idiot-proof" and took about 45
 > minutes.

Was this a complete install?  Any glitches we might need to know about?
I don't have a MS-Dog, but my brother does, he's looking.

 > Windows-95  looks to me like a cross between a Mac
 > and OS2.

Heh-heh.. Give ol' Bill some good models and he'll finally get it right...

 > Early in the installation process, the machine warned me
 > that it had found OS2 on the hard drive (I'll swear it was
 > holding its nose),

And it probably was...  ;-)

 > That file contains a couple lines about making OS2 work, and
 > a couple paragraphs on deleting OS2 completely.

Guess they wanted to be sure you knew how to get rid of it <G>

 > I never did get real fond of OS2, anyway.  It was slower
 > than Windows 3.1 and tended to crash now and then.

Oh..  Some swear by it..  I had thought I might want to go to it
if I did get a PC.  Maybe I ought to rethink..

 > I have (so far) resisted the temptation to check out the
 > Microsoft Network.  I think I am subscribing to enough
 > online services for now.  (More than enough, some might
 > say).  I'll have to read the instructions --  maybe there
 > are some free hours I can use and then quit.
 >
 > I did fill out the online registration form and let the
 > machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere.    I expect to
 > get a lot of junk mail.

Did you let it scan your system?  I saw some rumors about that
deal...  dunno what's true, though..

 > This is painful to admit, fellow OS-9ers, but I think Mr.
 > Gates and crew have done a pretty good job here.  We can
 > point out that OS-9, UNIX, (LINUX, etc),  Macs, Amigas etc
 > have been doing some of this for a long time, but now the
 > OTHER 90% of the world has a pretty capable system.

This sounds like a really honest opinion..  I'm sure it's true.  It's
a shame, though, that this outfit was able to appropriate all the
good stuff that the rest developed and claim it as their own.

I guess it's a fact that this is the shape of things to come.  I'd
say they have won the war.  No due to superiority, but the fact that
the world of computer users is a bunch of sheep.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93460 27-AUG 16:56 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93441)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JOHNBAER

 > > I did fill out the online registration form and let the
 > > machine zap it to an "800" number somewhere.  I expect to
 > > get a lot of junk mail.
 >
 > I would be leery of using that.  I don't have first hand experience
 > with this, but have heard that it snoops your hard drive.

I had heard the same thing..  You are supposed to be able to "Just
Say NO", but many have questioned whether you have any say about it <G>

It reminds one of the Prodigy rumor that floated around a few years
back.


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93462 27-AUG 16:57 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93442)
     From: DBREEDING    To: 01GEN40

 > The piece I posted here WAS greatly exaggerated, but, in my opinion
 > so is Microsquish.  I would say that this is were you read it.

Yeah, I saved it... just went back and dug it out.  I really laughed
at it.

 > I went to the Computer Expo here in San Diego last weekend.  Here
 > is were they (Microsquish) debued(sp) WINDOZE 95.  They had this 15
 > foot plexi-glass box filled with software packages.  You had to make
 > a correct guess as to how many boxes were in there and I guess you
 > would win WINDOZE 95.  My son and I bypassed their booth and went
 > straight over to the OS/2 booth.  They were giving away copies of
 > OS/2 in their drawings.  I did not enter any.

 > Of course, I DID
 > spend most of my time at the OS-9 booth.  One thing puzzles me
 > though,  I fail to understand why it is catagorized as "New Tech-
 > nology"

That is strange.  Maybe if they call it new technology, they think
people will suppose OS-9 copied all the neat stuff in Win 95 from _them_?
And then they can say, if that is not enough, look at all the neat
features the Mac ripped off them (about 15 years ago).

 > Oh well, at least it was there, again.  I must say that
 > the UG did set up one impressive display booth.  There were many
 > people stopping by and asking questions.

Perhaps it will draw a new user or two.  Events like that is where I would
like to see some really neat new apps displayed.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93475 28-AUG 19:17 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93462)
     From: JMURPHY      To: DBREEDING

> That is strange.  Maybe if they call it new technology, they think
> people will suppose OS-9 copied all the neat stuff in Win 95 from _them_?
> And then they can say, if that is not enough, look at all the neat
> features the Mac ripped off them (about 15 years ago).

15 years ago, the Mac didn't exist.
15 years ago the IBM PC didn't exist.

But, yeah, we know what you mean.

John Murphy

-*-

93482 29-AUG 00:36 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93443)
     From: WA2EGP       To: 01GEN40

Geez......Great, a crash even before it is released (grin).

-*-

93495 29-AUG 19:57 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93475)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JMURPHY

 > > That is strange.  Maybe if they call it new technology, they think
 > > people will suppose OS-9 copied all the neat stuff in Win 95 from
 > _them_? > And then they can say, if that is not enough, look at all the
 > neat > features the Mac ripped off them (about 15 years ago).
 >
 > 15 years ago, the Mac didn't exist.
 > 15 years ago the IBM PC didn't exist.
 >
 > But, yeah, we know what you mean.

Well, I _did_ say "about".. <G>  Wanted to make it sound as good as possible.

But it is true..  neither did exist at that time.. I do stand corrected..


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93504 30-AUG 03:09 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JOHNREED

only problem with short cuts..IS...tis a memory hog!   360 bytes take up
32k on the disk! aDD up all the SHORTCUTS and what do you get! LOTS of lost
Hard Drive space! I have WIN95 too!<grin> Had it TWO months ago!
Pre release version...+ a JUNE release.....I got the Main one the Morning
 After it came out!...get yourself a copy of "PC Computing" september 95
I think you will like some of the hints contained there in!
once everyone upgrades ALL their OLD copies of programs! it will work well!
BUT! There will be the ones that insist on using Their OLD <COPIED><grin>
program,that will TRASH the hard drive! ANY program that uses DIRECT access
to the drive,like a DISK util......will do it!
I suppose someone will come out with a program that will put ALL the Shortcut
info into one file,rather than spreed em around!<G>
Dennis

-*-

93505 30-AUG 03:13 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93441)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JOHNBAER

Yes it do! BUT you do NOT have to release it! BOX for one to choose!
It scans the System to see what you have installed,pops up a list,and ask's
you if you want to send that stuff with the Reg ..info!!!!!
Dennis

-*-

93508 30-AUG 19:09 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93441)
     From: JOHNREED     To: JOHNBAER

 >
 > Wonderfull.. did you get a prompt that this was going to happen,
 > or did the installer just go ahead and do it ?

No warning during the install, but I did find a few words about beating
up on boot managers in the text files, and it left the old one in a
backup file.  I installed the Linux "LILO" loader today, and it works
with all three opsystems (WIN/OS9K/Linux).  OS-9000 still refuses to
boot unless it's partition is the "active" one, but the other two
don't seem to care, so that's OK.
 >
 > I would be leery of using that.  I don't have first hand experience
 > with this, but have heard that it snoops your hard drive.
 >
Aw c'mon, that would be a new level of sleaze, and maybe the makings
of a lawsuit that would be a lot of fun.  I assume the "online registration"
reported on installed hardware, and maybe even software.  Hmmm, that
would be an interesting "anti-piracy" tactic, wouldn't it?  (Picturing
a version of Wordperfect or AutoCad that looks for a live modem and
"phones home" ... interesting thought.)

JohnW

-*-

93519 31-AUG 19:13 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93504)
     From: JOHNREED     To: COCOKIWI

 > only problem with short cuts..IS...tis a memory hog!   360 bytes take up
 > 32k on the disk! aDD up all the SHORTCUTS and what do you get! LOTS of
Well, it is a Microsoft product -- no surprise that it hogs memory.

 > <COPIED><grin> program,that will TRASH the hard drive! ANY program that
 > uses DIRECT access to the drive,like a DISK util......will do it!

Whoops!  I am lucky I haven't done it already.  No real big deal tho,
the "486" is my "toy".  All important stuff is on the MM/1.  I play
with the 486 so much that I kind of expect to have to rebuild the
thing every couple months. (And I make a LOT of tapes).

JohnW


-*-

93527 2-SEP 03:55  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93519)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: JOHNREED

<LOTs! of backups> <Grin>......some older programs like XTREE GOLD will
zap it!......BUT! WIN95 WILL WARN you That the program you ARE Going to USE
Has a problem with 95! Be IT on ONES SELF if you DO!<Grin>.....It aint BaD!
Just make sure one UPGRADES .....ALL......Older........Programs!
And get upgrade ,,soon maybe? That depends if the Company you brought the
program HAS one YET! Drivers !!!!..........Mouse Systems.........<when THEY
 feel like it>........JACTARA......video system.........End of Sept!.......
Dennis

-*-

93534 3-SEP 12:08  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93462)
     From: 01GEN40      To: DBREEDING

Hi Dave,

  Ya know what really gets my goat?  Lately, I have been reading
and hearing so much about how Bill Gates "created MS-DOS"!  We all
know that he did NOT create it, he got the code from the true
creator and put his name on it.  Is the PC world so neive that they
do not know the TRUE story, or are they just so caught up in GATES
little world that they just say that HE IS THE CREATOR?  I am so
glad that we do not have this kind of mis-information and mis-direc-
tion in our BIG world of OS-9.
  Thanks for the reply...  See ya among the stars...

LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER> ** In whatever form it is in!
Peace and Long Life...
Siran of Vulcan (CMDR)
-= GEN =-

-*-

93538 3-SEP 16:23  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93534)
     From: DBREEDING    To: 01GEN40

 > Ya know what really gets my goat?  Lately, I have been reading
 > and hearing so much about how Bill Gates "created MS-DOS"!  We all
 > know that he did NOT create it, he got the code from the true
 > creator and put his name on it.  Is the PC world so neive that they
 > do not know the TRUE story, or are they just so caught up in GATES
 > little world that they just say that HE IS THE CREATOR?

Well, IMO, it was IBM that made Bill Gates.  I have heard people, when
contemplating buying a system, without hesitation, indicated that
they would go straight to IBM.  From this, the more cost-conscious
buyers wanted IBM, or figured that if IBM did it, it had to be good,
flocked to the clones.  After the ball got rolling, more and more people
followed like sheep, and eventually, it got to where this market was
where all the software authors could make any money.  The Mac has a
pretty fair market, but the _big_ slice of pie is in the MS-Dos world.

 > I am so
 > glad that we do not have this kind of mis-information and mis-direc-
 > tion in our BIG world of OS-9.

Yeah.  The only mis-information regarding OS-9 is that the "media" tends
to try to ignore it.  I have watched reports on the Video-on-Demand
project.  They talk like it's MS-Dos that is operating the system.  I
have seen them even come out and say as much, or else make no mention of
what system is driving it and just leave the impression that it is MS-Dos.
It may be that the development out on the west coast might be trying to
plod along with them, but the Atlantic Bell system is using a MicroWare
product.  A little modified from our system, but the same thing.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93552 4-SEP 15:25  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429)
     From: MIKE_GUZZI   To: JOHNREED

i saw win-95 on a friends machine, i was not impressed since it really
doesn't give him much more, Plus im playing with linux now.

I don't like the fact win-95 takes more control away from you and the
technical info is an extra $50. the dos emulation is not that good and my
friend says alot of dos stuff doesn't work and several win-31 programs
do not work as well.

ah, i only have win-31 on my 486 because I HAVE TO to run certain programs.
otherwise id wipe it out. I like to have control over my computer.

Mike


-*-

93564 5-SEP 01:29  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93538)
     From: PAGAN        To: DBREEDING

 >Yeah.  The only mis-information regarding OS-9 is that the "media"
 >tends to try to ignore it.  I have watched reports on the
 >Video-on-Demand project.  They talk like it's MS-Dos that is
 >operating the system.  I have seen them even come out and say as
 >much, or else make no mention of what system is driving it and just
 >leave the impression that it is MS-Dos.

 More likely it's because they're ignorant.

 >It may be that the development out on the west coast might be trying
 >to plod along with them, but the Atlantic Bell system is using a
 >MicroWare product.  A little modified from our system, but the same
 >thing.

 I don't think so.  I can't find the source on this right now (my
 wife pesterd me so much I cleaned up the den) but I read that PacTel
 (the CA/NV RBOC) is considering the same system as Bell Atlantic and
 Nynex are implementing.  There isn't really much choice unless they
 want to start from scratch.  Once the decision was made to go with
 OS9 in the East, the set top manufacturers started building boxes.
 There is already a substantial financial commitment in this market
 to OS9; changing now would mean losing money -- ever hear of the
 phone company losing money if they could avoid it?

 Also, Motorola has invested in ITV and VOD and has bought an
 interest in Microware (8%?).  I don;t know how far the partnership
 goes but if it's tight, this will give Microware an inside track
 onto Iridium

 A caveat here.  I've heard thru the grapevine that the specs on the
 settop API's are being written to be opsys independent.  I have a
 hunch the RBOCs looked at what happen to the business computer
 market and don't want to be trapped the way most businesses are.
 It's true that OS9's modular design provides an upgrade path that
 other operating systems can't compete with yet but, remember, OS9
 came out of left field for most of the people who are implementing
 the VOD and ITV networks so they don't know what they're dealing
 with yet and are probably a little scared of it.

 Unless Microware drops the ball and walks off the field, Microsoft
 doesn't have much of a chance in the ITV market unless they want to
 build the infrastructure themselves (or buy out the phone company
 :-).  Microsoft has a _TERRIBLE_ reputation for bad behavior in
 partnerships.  To exploit a market as big as the whole embedded
 scene (including ITV and VOD) looks like it will become will take
 cooperation between suppliers.  Cooperation is essential and
 Microsoft doesn't cooperate well.

 There's also the not-so-small matter of all the hype associated
 with Win95.  If you work with marketing types for a while you start
 to understand what indicates whether a company is doing well or
 not.  One indicator is called the "Law" of hype -- things are not
 alway the way they appear in the press.  When a company is doing
 well, it doesn't need the hype.  When it does need the hype it
 usually means it's in trouble.

 The only real weakness I can see is that the current plans are
 downstream biased.  This bias isn't built into DAVID but the
 consumer won't know that and may associate it with the product.
 It's more likely tho the provider will get the "blame."

 Stephen Carville (PAGAN)
 The most beautiful thing about a mystery is how it looks
 after you solve it.


-*-

93567 5-SEP 07:32  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93534)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: 01GEN40

On 3-SEP 12:08 01GEN40 said to DBREEDING
   > Hi Dave,
   > Ya know what really gets my goat?  Lately, I have been reading
   > and hearing so much about how Bill Gates "created MS-DOS"!  We all
   > know that he did NOT create it, he got the code from the true
   > creator and put his name on it.  Is the PC world so neive that they
   > do not know the TRUE story, or are they just so caught up in GATES
   > little world that they just say that HE IS THE CREATOR?  I am so
   > glad that we do not have this kind of mis-information and mis-direc-
   > tion in our BIG world of OS-9.
   > Thanks for the reply...  See ya among the stars...
   > LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER> ** In whatever form it is in!
   > Peace and Long Life...
   > Siran of Vulcan (CMDR)
   > -= GEN =-

Actually, Gates did "create" MS-DOS as it is known today. Yes, he bought a
system that was working and used that as a base to work from, but he did
re-work the code and write a lot of extras to go along with it. Try writing
some device drivers or modifying a lot of the OS-9 code yourself. Then
you'll appreciate the effort that has gone into improving MS-DOS over the
years. Now I still think it is a bloated system, but given what it has to
run on, it can't be helped.... ;>


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;33;43mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93569 5-SEP 20:30  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93429)
     From: CLTUCKER     To: JOHNREED

Overheard your "kill off OS2 remark" in last message. I just got a 486
that has junk on it. How do you go about killing off something? I'm mew
on this PC.(g)
cl

-*-

93570 5-SEP 21:35  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93552)
     From: JOHNREED     To: MIKE_GUZZI

 >
 > ah, i only have win-31 on my 486 because I HAVE TO to run certain
 > programs. otherwise id wipe it out. I like to have control over my
 > computer.

 The reason for keeping a working messydos machine in the house is
the same as the reason they tried to teach me Latin in high school.
Its a useless dead language, but a lot of other things are based on
it.  AND, remember, many people are scared to death of having control
over their computer. (GRIN).

John

-*-

93571 5-SEP 21:51  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93569)
     From: JOHNREED     To: CLTUCKER

 > Overheard your "kill off OS2 remark" in last message. I just got a 486
 > that has junk on it. How do you go about killing off something? I'm mew
 > on this PC.(g)
 > cl
 >

 Er, kinda depends on what you want to get rid of.  Before engaging in
wholsale directory slaughter, make sure you are not wiping out something
you really want.

 Back up everything first.


 If you can describe the "junk" I will try to come up with a more specific
reply.

 Might be better to do it via EMAIL - we are drifting out of OS9-land
here (GRIN).

-*-

93573 6-SEP 15:00  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93570)
     From: MIKE_GUZZI   To: JOHNREED

ain't that the truth !
mike

-*-

93576 6-SEP 19:47  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93564)
     From: DBREEDING    To: PAGAN

Stephen, it's good to hear from you again.

I'll not quote a lot of your post, but it sounds very much to the
point and reassuring.

 > >Yeah.  The only mis-information regarding OS-9 is that the "media"
 > >tends to try to ignore it.  I have watched reports on the
 > >Video-on-Demand project.  They talk like it's MS-Dos that is
 > >operating the system.

 > More likely it's because they're ignorant.

It could very well be that or they may just want to stay on the good
side of MS, but it can be quite aggravating to hear people who are
supposedly "in the know" be so far off base.  It was in the post here
that was quoted from the Wall Street Journal, I believe, where it was
stated that MS was trying to get the contract, but their system could
just not measure up.

 > >It may be that the development out on the west coast might be trying
 > >to plod along with them, but the Atlantic Bell system is using a
 > >MicroWare product.  A little modified from our system, but the same
 > >thing.
 >
 > I don't think so.

What you said in the following sounds quite valid and reasonable.  Unless
there was some kind of "bed-fellowship", I cannot see why they would choose
MS on the West coast, since it didn't measure up on the east.


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93579 6-SEP 22:47  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93564)
     From: JEJONES      To: PAGAN

 > Also, Motorola has invested in ITV and VOD and has bought an
 > interest in Microware (8%?).

11%, with an option on an additional amount (14% if I remember
rightly) in the future--at least, that's what I read in the papers.

Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

-*-

93587 7-SEP 22:32  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93564)
     From: WDTV5        To: PAGAN

I LIKE your sig!
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93588 7-SEP 22:36  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93567)
     From: WDTV5        To: DSRTFOX

Frank, theres a lot of people, including Gary Kildall (Digital Research)
who would dispute the word "bought" with reference to how Gates got the
first copy of cpm86 and renamed it ms-dos. Just my .02$ worth.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93591 8-SEP 00:22  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93588)
     From: JMURPHY      To: WDTV5

> Frank, theres a lot of people, including Gary Kildall (Digital Research)
> who would dispute the word "bought" with reference to how Gates got the
> first copy of cpm86 and renamed it ms-dos. Just my .02$ worth.
> Cheers, Gene
>

Gates didn't buy CPM86. Nor did he rename it.

CPM86 wasn't ready, (or Kildall didn't want to talk to IBM)
so IBM started shopping around for another
OS vendor. Microsoft happened to be available.

MS then bought the rights to a totally different OS, from a totally
different company. DR had nothing to do with it.

John

-*-

93598 9-SEP 01:36  General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93591)
     From: WDTV5        To: JMURPHY

Thats the world according to Bill John, Gary has argued that point in print
many, many times in the last 15 years.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93610 10-SEP 02:54 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93538)
     From: BROWN80      To: DBREEDING

There is a Windows video on demand project.  TCI, the largest MSO, is trying
it.  Name recognition is important.  Just because DAVID is better may not
mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and Telecom executives.  My
company is upgrading its systems to the latest Scientific Atlantic addressable
converters. (along with fiber optics, greater bandwidth, two way data trans-
mition, automatic pay per view capabilities, and limited telephony options)
We have used a Compaq 286 running Xenix V for many years and it has worked
flawlessly.  The new system uses a high end PS/2 running (you guessed it)
Windows.  Ignorance is bliss.  There are a lot of blissful people out there,
and they make many important decissions about those things which they are
most ignorant about.  Business doesn't produce goods and services any more,
it produces money.


            John Brown

-*-

93611 10-SEP 11:32 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93610)
     From: JEJONES      To: BROWN80

 > There is a Windows video on demand project.  TCI, the largest MSO, is
 > trying it.  Name recognition is important.  Just because DAVID is better
 > may not mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and Telecom
 > executives.

Well, yes, but...the companies that have announced that they will use
DAVID inclusive-or be compatible with DAVID have considerably more name
recognition than Microware, and I'd say that some of them have as much
name recognition as Microsoft.

Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

-*-

93612 10-SEP 11:48 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93538)
     From: 01GEN40      To: DBREEDING

Hi Dave,
  I do agree with you when you say that "IBM made Bill Gates."  Then
again, I think, if it were not for IBM and Intel, the PC would not be
what it is today.  I have to wonder though, when IBM was looking for
a DOS for their NEW machine, was OS-9 or UNIX for that matter even
considered?  Would Bill Gates be on "the throne" if IBM would have
gone with CP/M?  I do have to admit, somewhat reluctantly, that I do
admire Gates for what he has acheived, although I do not agree with
some of his tactics, my hat IS off to him.
  Ya know, I really did like the song "Start Me Up" by the Stones,
but now when I am listening to the radio and here it, I think I am
listening to a WINDOZE 95 commercial.  I guess Gates likes the Stones
music too!
  Thanks for the reply...  See ya among the stars...

LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER> ** In whatever form it is in!
Peace and Long Life...
Siran of Vulcan (CMDR)
-= GEN =-

-*-

93614 10-SEP 12:15 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93567)
     From: 01GEN40      To: DSRTFOX

Hi Frank,
  Sorry, but I have to agree and dis-agree.  Sure, Gates did improve
upon MS-DOS, but it is still NOT up to speed with OS-9.  I look at
DOS from the point of veiw of this SIG.  OS-9 has come a long way
since it was first released by Radio Shack.  Look at all the patches
and major module re-writes of OS-9.  Most have been done by the "BIG
GUN" gurus in the know.  I myself have even contributed, albeit in a
very small way, when I made a patch to INIT so cc3go does not remain
in memory.  That is not to say that "we" created OS-9, "we" have just
created its improvements.  IMHO Gates, or the people in his employ,
have created the improvements, for what they are worth, upon DOS.
INIT was created by the people at Microware, I just created an im-
provement to it.
  Thanks for the reply...  See ya among the stars...

LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER> ** In whatever form it is in!
Peace and Long Life...
Siran of Vulcan (CMDR)
-= GEN =-

-*-

93616 10-SEP 14:31 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93610)
     From: DBREEDING    To: BROWN80

 > There is a Windows video on demand project.  TCI, the largest MSO, is
 > trying it.

I had heard that they were trying, but was not sure.

 > Name recognition is important.  Just because DAVID is better
 > may not mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and Telecom
 > executives.

 > Ignorance is bliss.  There are a lot of blissful
 > people out there, and they make many important decissions about those
 > things which they are most ignorant about.

That is very true.  Maybe there will be someone who might be wise enough
to make the right choice.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93617 10-SEP 16:30 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93612)
     From: JEJONES      To: 01GEN40 (NR)

 > Ya know, I really did like the song "Start Me Up" by the Stones...

But will Windows 95 "make a grown man cry"?

Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

-*-

93621 10-SEP 19:17 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93610)
     From: PAGAN        To: BROWN80


 >There is a Windows video on demand project.  TCI, the largest MSO,
 >is trying it.  Name recognition is important.  Just because DAVID is
 >better may not mean as much as Microsoft and TCI to some cable and
 >Telecom executives.

 I remember a bit about that (modular Windows - right?).  As I recall
 it has a major downstream bias which may sound good to the execs in
 charge but, based on the popularity for the Internet, I think the
 consumer is going to demand full upstream capability too.  The age
 of the closed system where the broadcaster provides to you what they
 think you want is dying fast.  Now, businesses and induividuals want
 to be able to connect to the networks as providers as well as a
 consumers of information.  DAVID provides for full speed connections
 *both* ways (no bias) even tho the current implementations aren't
 taking advantage of it.

 The Microsoft name may be important to some executive types and
 Gates may take advantage of this and extend the Microsoft name to
 his VOD products.  Doing so he runs the risk of "line extension" and
 having all associated products judged by the performance of his
 _worst_ products.

 Ever wonder why the big auto manufacturers have different names for
 the same car?  Remember the adverse effect the Pinto had on Ford
 sales?  Didn't hurt Mercury tho.  How about the Corvair and Vega for
 Chevrolet?  Pontiacs still sold just as well.  Microware is playing
 a much smarter marketing game by keeping the OS9 name separate from
 CD-I separate from DAVID.  Even if DAVID flops, the failure won't be
 name associated with Microware's other products.

 DAVID also the advantage of being first in the market.  If it
 succeeds, this establishes it in a position of leadership and
 everyone else will have to play catch up.

 Stephen Carville (PAGAN)
 It was proper to be skeptical of Galileo's claims.  It was a crime
 to refuse to look thru his telescope.


-*-

93625 10-SEP 21:20 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93612)
     From: DBREEDING    To: 01GEN40 (NR)

 > I do agree with you when you say that "IBM made Bill Gates."  Then
 > again, I think, if it were not for IBM and Intel, the PC would not be
 > what it is today.

It would probably be different, whether better or not is the $64 question.
Apple would undoubtedly have gotten a much bigger share of the market.
Whether they would have been pushed to develop as far and as fast as
they have is uncertain to me.  It could be that, had they have had the
larger market, they could have developed faster, but the cost of the
machines might have remained high.  But, it could well be that third-party
manufacturers would have offered alternatives and have pushed the price
down as well.  IMO, the only good thing coming from the IBM/MS "takeover"
was that we now have very affordable machines.  But it's a sure-fire
thing that this was not done according to IBM's wishes.  <G>

 > I have to wonder though, when IBM was looking for
 > a DOS for their NEW machine, was OS-9 or UNIX for that matter even
 > considered?

I really don't know.  I have a feeling that Microware and probably the
owners of UNIX (Bell Labs??) probably asked IBM more than they wanted
to pay for license fees and thought they could get by cheap with MS-Dos.
Actually, I wonder if IBM even expected the PC marked to even last.

 > Would Bill Gates be on "the throne" if IBM would have
 > gone with CP/M?

I seriously doubt it but it's something we will now never know.  Of course
Radio Shack chose MS-Basic for their systems.  Had IBM not have come in,
it's possible that R-S would have had more influence in the market.

 > I do have to admit, somewhat reluctantly, that I do
 > admire Gates for what he has acheived, although I do not agree with
 > some of his tactics, my hat IS off to him.

Well, I'm sure he is a man of vision, but the fact that he was at the right
place at the right time did not hurt.  Whether the fact that he _was_ at
that spot was entirely his own doing or just a matter of luck is another
matter.  I'm sure he was to some extent the master of his own fate.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93626 10-SEP 22:02 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93598)
     From: JMURPHY      To: WDTV5

> Thats the world according to Bill John, Gary has argued that point in print
> many, many times in the last 15 years.
> Cheers, Gene
>
Kildall himself has acknowledged that when IBM came
calling he was not available. Popular myth is that he
was not available because he was joyriding in his private plane.
Kildall disputes with popular myth, and I'm very much inclined
to believe his version. The facts remain: CPM86 was not available
to IBM on IBM's schedule, nor was Kildall himself available to IBM
on IBM's schedule. Kildall does not dispute this.
So how is any of this Gates' fault?

And what does any of this have to do with OS-9? <g>

John

-*-

93630 11-SEP 01:25 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93612)
     From: COCOKIWI     To: 01GEN40 (NR)

Funny you should ssay that! a long time ago I heard that IBM was tosssing up
which IC to go with Intel or MOTOROLA...<6809>..BUT! at the time 6809,s were
in short supply,SOooooo! The rest is History!They went with the supply and
demand!<grin>...<Sigh>.....Just think! IF they HAD used the 6809!!!!!<g>
Dennis

-*-

93632 11-SEP 07:25 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93569)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: CLTUCKER

On 5-SEP 20:30 CLTUCKER said to JOHNREED
   > Overheard your "kill off OS2 remark" in last message. I just got a 486
   > that has junk on it. How do you go about killing off something? I'm mew
   > on this PC.(g)
   > cl

from the "C:" prompt, type "format C:". That will do it every time.... ;>


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;30;40mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93633 11-SEP 07:25 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93588)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: WDTV5

On 7-SEP 22:36 WDTV5 said to DSRTFOX
   > Frank, theres a lot of people, including Gary Kildall (Digital
   >Research) who would dispute the word "bought" with reference to how
   >Gates got the first copy of cpm86 and renamed it ms-dos. Just my .02$
   >worth. Cheers, Gene

I know the story. Fact remains that Gates DID buy a legit license to CPM86
though. Now how much of the code he copied rather than wrote from scratch is
somethng for the legal types to determine, and I guess that never happened.


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;37;46mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93634 11-SEP 07:51 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93614)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: 01GEN40 (NR)

When comparing MS-DOS to OS-9, I agree that OS-9 would have been the better
choice, and IBM may have considered it  at one point.. or most likely would
have. You see, they looked at Motorola processors before choosing Intel.
They considered everything on the current market. The 68xxx chips weren't
all ready at the time, and since the 6809 wasn't going to be fully downward
compatible with the 68K series, they chose Intel instead. Got this from a
person who worked for IBM at the time!

Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;33;47mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93639 11-SEP 23:54 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93626)
     From: WDTV5        To: JMURPHY

Do with os9? Beats me John. I was just refreshing the rumors/facts as the
case may be.
Cheers John, Gene

-*-

93641 12-SEP 00:01 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93633)
     From: WDTV5        To: DSRTFOX

I've not saw where Gary ever said that a license was sold to Gates. Thats
not to sayit didn't happen, only that I missed that chapter in this saga.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93650 15-SEP 06:50 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93641)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: WDTV5

On 12-SEP 00:01 WDTV5 said to DSRTFOX
   > I've not saw where Gary ever said that a license was sold to Gates.
   >Thats not to sayit didn't happen, only that I missed that chapter in
   >this saga. Cheers, Gene

Gates didn't buy a license from Digital itself... he bought out a company
that had a license, taking over their license with everything else.


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;31;44mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93651 15-SEP 22:03 General Information
     RE: Win 95 (Re: Msg 93650)
     From: WDTV5        To: DSRTFOX (NR)

Humm, possibly so, but I've never saw that in print. Some of the stories
have been fairly acrimonious that I have read. Maybe I should been born in
Missouri ;:)
Cheers Frank, Gene

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93374 21-AUG 21:26 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93366)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: DBREEDING

> I got it.  Haven't looked at it yet, but expect it to be quite
> informative.

  I'll tell you, it helped me to `get' files from the wuarchive site.
That is _one_ busy site <g>.  Just read it over, you'll get the feel
of it.  If you need help, just ask.  :)

--
   John -

 Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something.


-*-

93398 23-AUG 22:22 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93374)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JOHNBAER

 > > I got it.  Haven't looked at it yet, but expect it to be quite
 > > informative.
 >
 > I'll tell you, it helped me to `get' files from the wuarchive site.
 > That is _one_ busy site <g>.  Just read it over, you'll get the feel
 > of it.  If you need help, just ask.  :)

I did scan over it.  I intend to print it out.  I can get lots more if
it's on paper.  It did look interesting.

As of now, the only internet access I have is here and on CI$.  I think
I finally got to where I could navigate and get files through the Delphi
FTP option.  I had a little problem but thanks to some, I believe you
gave me some tips, I got to where I could use it.

The most of internet is still an unexplored area for me.  I have not
yet ventured very far out.

Ohh, if we had a web browser.  This is a project I would like to partake
in, but probably by the time I would take a notion to get started, someone
would already have a nice one up and running - of course, I wish they
would <G>

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93417 24-AUG 22:59 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93398)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: DBREEDING

   David,

> As of now, the only internet access I have is here and on CI$.  I think
> I finally got to where I could navigate and get files through the Delphi
> FTP option.  I had a little problem but thanks to some, I believe you
> gave me some tips, I got to where I could use it.

  Don't hesitate to ask questions.  I'm sure someone here can answer
questions for you.  And you can download the `roadmap.lzh' file and
have a ball <g>.

> The most of internet is still an unexplored area for me.  I have not
> yet ventured very far out.

  For me, internet mail, ftp, a little gopher, and now ftp-mail in that
order <g>.

> Ohh, if we had a web browser.  This is a project I would like to partake
> in, but probably by the time I would take a notion to get started,
> someone would already have a nice one up and running - of course, I wish
> they would <G>

  I think that this would be a tough one, with Gwindows, Kwindows, MGR...
Not easy I would think...

  John -


-*-

93434 26-AUG 23:06 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93417)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JOHNBAER

 > > I finally got to where I could navigate and get files through the
 > Delphi > FTP option.  I had a little problem but thanks to some, I believe
 > you > gave me some tips, I got to where I could use it.
 >
 > Don't hesitate to ask questions.  I'm sure someone here can answer
 > questions for you.  And you can download the `roadmap.lzh' file and
 > have a ball <g>.

I have roadmap, but it's another of the things I have stored and not yet
reviewed <G>

 > > The most of internet is still an unexplored area for me.  I have not
 > > yet ventured very far out.
 >
 > For me, internet mail, ftp, a little gopher, and now ftp-mail in that
 > order <g>.

Well, I've done some inet mail, and a little ftp, and that's about it.  I
read the cocolist and comp.os.os9. Right now, I just cannot invest in the
long distance charges to do a lot of newsgroups.  Hopefully I will have
local access soon.  We have one BBS that does a daily exchange, but I
think at this time, what use I make of the internet can be more efficiently
done here or on CIS.

 > > Ohh, if we had a web browser.

 > I think that this would be a tough one, with Gwindows, Kwindows, MGR...
 > Not easy I would think...

IMO, one could probably get one where it could kinda connect fairly quickly.
The big problem is in all the little obscure facets.

I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program.  In
looking at the commands, I found that most of the basic commands are already
implemented in G-Windows, that is, circle, arc, etc...  I'm sure there are
the same in K-W and the CoCo also has these primitives, so this would
probably be just a matter of incorporating them into the program.  With
RIP, I think the bigget job might be in interpreting the graphics files
you download.

I have no info on WWW, so don't really know how big a job it would be.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93439 27-AUG 08:16 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93434)
     From: JOHNREED     To: DBREEDING

 > I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program.
 > In looking at the commands, I found that most of the basic commands are
 > already implemented in G-Windows, that is, circle, arc, etc...  I'm sure
 > there are the same in K-W and the CoCo also has these primitives, so this
 > would probably be just a matter of incorporating them into the program.
 > With RIP, I think the bigget job might be in interpreting the graphics
 > files you download.
 >

 Someone has suggested this before, but what would be really nice is a
kind of "graphcap" system.  Some kind of universal graphics module that
sits in memory (like cio?), accepts some standard graphics commands and
displays them on the Kwindows, Gwindows, Xwindows, MGR or whatever
Wonderful New Windowing System comes out next week.  It would be slow,
and eat up some memory, but it should be at least POSSIBLE.  I fear
this project would require a programmer with a lot more time (and skill)
than me. (But I'm thinking about it, anyway).


 BTW, David, that little blurb I posted on my new toy yesterday was
supposed to be addressed to "ALL", I tried to tack it onto that thread
and just change the addressee, but somehow I screwed it up and it
kept your ID in the header.  (Oh well, everybody reads most of the
stuff anyway -- GRIN).

John Wainwright

-*-

93440 27-AUG 09:43 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93434)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: DBREEDING

   David,

> I have roadmap, but it's another of the things I have stored and not yet
> reviewed <G>

  Now your starting to sound like me... 8^>

> .. I read the cocolist and comp.os.os9. Right now, I just cannot invest
> in the long distance charges to do a lot of newsgroups.

  In case you didn't know, buffer capture it.  When your at the point
where Delphi's reader tells you how many messages are `unread' and how
many `you have read' just open your buffer and type ` unread nonstop '
and away you go.  Do this for each group you want to read off line.

> I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program.

  Humm, I don't login to dos bbs so I have no idea about it.

> I have no info on WWW, so don't really know how big a job it would be.

  I feel that you would wind up reverse engineering it. Companies like
netscape won't tell you what the `codes' are that are used.

  John


-*-

93459 27-AUG 16:56 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93440)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JOHNBAER

 > > I have roadmap, but it's another of the things I have stored and not
 > yet > reviewed <G>
 >
 > Now your starting to sound like me... 8^>

Yeah, I get into so many things that it seems I cannot get to it all... :-(

 > > .. I read the cocolist and comp.os.os9.

 > In case you didn't know, buffer capture it.  When your at the point
 > where Delphi's reader tells you how many messages are `unread' and how
 > many `you have read' just open your buffer and type ` unread nonstop '
 > and away you go.  Do this for each group you want to read off line.

This is what I do.  I capture it all and then run it through ved, deleting
most and cutting-and-saving some messages that I want to keep.

 > > I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program.
 >
 > Humm, I don't login to dos bbs so I have no idea about it.

I would love to see more stuff like this just for the show-off value more
than anything <G>

 > > I have no info on WWW, so don't really know how big a job it would be.
 >
 > I feel that you would wind up reverse engineering it. Companies like
 > netscape won't tell you what the `codes' are that are used.

It would be harder to do like that.  I have not explored the aspects of it,
and, as you said, it would probably be a little hard to get right.

The problem with such projects as this is that you can probably get something
that will "kind of" run, but it takes forever to get all the little fine
points worked out right.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93463 27-AUG 17:10 General Information
     RE: Inet by Mail (Re: Msg 93439)
     From: DBREEDING    To: JOHNREED

 > > I took a quick look at the posiblity of writing a RIP terminal program.

 > Someone has suggested this before,

Might have been me <G>

 > but what would be really nice is a
 > kind of "graphcap" system.  Some kind of universal graphics module that
 > sits in memory (like cio?), accepts some standard graphics commands and
 > displays them on the Kwindows, Gwindows, Xwindows, MGR or whatever

This is exactly what I had thought we need.  It would work something like
gfx2.  You would send it a command with the applicable parameters and then
this module could do the dirty work.

 > It would be slow,
 > and eat up some memory, but it should be at least POSSIBLE.

Yes, it would incur a speed hit.. how much would be hard to say...  It
would depend on how frequently the calls would be made.  It might be
that something like this would be too slow for comm work using a high
speed modem, but might be worth a try.

 > I fear
 > this project would require a programmer with a lot more time (and skill)
 > than me. (But I'm thinking about it, anyway).

Not really.  The big job at hand would be to get a common calling protocol.
Then a programmer for each platform could write the individual code.
A project like this would require some careful thought and would need
to get the protocol standardized before starting.  This might be a
project to be carried on throught the OS9 UG.   It would simplify
programming for the graphical windows.  The other possibility would
be to write the program and all graphical work could be carried out
within one file containing the functions to do that.  Then if I, say
wrote a program for G-Windows, I could pass the code on to an MM/1
programmer and all he should have to do would be to edit this one
file.

Whatever we do, though, we do need some way to get the good graphics
programs to run on all systems.  It is a little sad right now to
see some really great piece of work for K-Windows, for example, but
G-Windows users not being able to use it, and vice versa..

 > BTW, David, that little blurb I posted on my new toy yesterday was
 > supposed to be addressed to "ALL", I tried to tack it onto that thread
 > and just change the addressee,

Yes, I figured that your post was more of this nature.  It's easy to
fail to get it changed right.  I replied to it anyway <G>..

As you say, I expect everyone will be able to see it anyway.

P.S.   This thread must be jinxed.  I just posted a reply and it got
addressed to myself  <:-(

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93376 21-AUG 21:36 General Information
     The Pink Rose bbs
     From: MDALENE      To: ALL

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-*-

93379 22-AUG 01:10 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93369)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WDTV5

Do you have the "oskar" disassembler for OSK? Perhaps it will do the
job for you.. if you need it.. let me know and I'll mail ya a copy...
--
Paul

-*-

93389 23-AUG 00:54 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93379)
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

'Fraid I don't. Would it run on the ami? Or could it be made to run on
amigados3.1?
Thats the one major missing item for it, a good pd disassembler. I've got a copy

of the resource demo, it can't save, but it doesn't terribly impress me at all.
Matt Dillon used to have one that came with D.I.C.E., but since about 2.26, its
not been on the distribution disks. ADis si also a candidate, but its not too
bulletproof either, takes it half a page of binary to get in time again if the
starter address given is not at an instruction boundary. Or at least the copies
I have do. They are a bit old, not much has been done in the last 2-3 years on
them. Sad.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93390 23-AUG 01:41 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93389)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WDTV5

oskar is for OS-9/68k... I don't think source is available... I can't even
recall exactly who I got it from (someone in Europe I believe) Not being
and assembly type, I have never paid much attention to it... I do have
it sitting in the archives on SandV though...
--
Paul

-*-

93399 23-AUG 22:22 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93369)
     From: DBREEDING    To: WDTV5

 > unforch, the drivers source isn't available, and I've not found a disasm
 > for it that actually works yet, at least not near as well as the ones we
 > have for the coco.

What I did was copy the source listed in OS9 Insights.  The driver for
my System 5 was modelled after it.  I edited it by hand till I got it
to assemble the identically same module.  I then went to work making
my changes.  As of now, it seems to work quite well.  I added an
automatic Hardware Flow control routine to replace XOn/XOff, or in
addition to it.  Mine is rather crude, but it appears to be doing
the job.

 > Pity. I just fiddled with a bunch of the options, and
 > altho I did get a 1.2 meg/sec plus write speed, thats not going to help.

That's with your driver?

 > When it shuts to irq's off to write to the disk, all hell breaks loose
 > in the relativly unbuffered seriel ports, nobody has seen fit to make
 > us a board that uses the 16550 yet.

What system do you have?  Do you use STerm?  One thing STerm does is
send XOFF when it does a disk write.  However, with the latest modems,
you probably have a buffer within the modem that has data in it.  Now,
IMO, unless you have your modem set for Software Handshake (not advisable
for binary transfers), it will ignore this and keep sending, and your
buffer will overflow.  Actually, this is probably the problem you are
experiencing.  Your driver is not getting the modem halted and the
modem keeps pumping data to the driver even after the buffer is filled
up.  If you are experiencing overflowing buffers, you will see your
data repeated.

Delmar sells a serial card for their computers.  I'm not sure if it's 16550
or not.  One of the shortcomings of the 68681 driver that came with my
system was that it had an unbearably small buffer, 200 bytes, I believe.
That, coupled with no automatic Hardware Flow control made it very unreliable
with hi-speed transfers, zmodem was unusable with windows.  Now, in a text
screen, it worked fine.  The graphics screen is slow enough that it made it
hard for it to keep up in windows.  Actually, when I increased the buffer to
2k, it seemed to work OK, even without HW flow control.  It probably would
have barfed if it were scrolling an extremely long text file.

However, I think the reason Delmar had not worked on the 68681 drivers
was due to the fact that they _did_ have a serial card and I believe
most people were using it.  However, as of now, I can get by with
my current ports.  Might try a 28.8 modem and see if I'm still happy
with it <G>


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93403 23-AUG 23:57 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93399)
     From: WDTV5        To: DBREEDING

Sorry bout the confusion here, but all that was refering to my other computer,
a stuffed Amiga 2000. 9 megs ram, 345 IDE drive, multiface III, cdrom etc.
And those are SLOW figures, we just picked up a fresh scsi card for one at
the tv station that checked in at 3.2 megs/sec to the best drive of the 4
hard drives in that box. We oughta get the STerm fellows in touch with Olaf
Barthel of Amiga "Term" fame. However, the way that the amiga does it, with
most of that sort of thing delegated to a loadable library, which any one
of the 10 or so term proggys for the amiga may call, we can't blame the
term proggy, but the library doing the dirty work at the instant. Rather
similar to the zmodem situation here in that its an external procedure, but
this stuff carries over to even text captures! So the only safe place to
capture this forum in the "read new ns ft" mode is to open the file in the
ramdisk where it can write very quickly, litterally in between bytes rx'd!
Cheers Dave, Gene

-*-

93472 28-AUG 07:11 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93357)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: EDELMAR

Ed, the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price. For the
$400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a cobbled together
system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions licensed from MW, some
special utilities and drivers written by Karl, and some PD utils), but has
all the major components. Since it is a licensed product (at least most of
it!), there are no compatibility problems. A version of BASIC also comes
with it. A PT68K4 board runs about the same price, but add another $300 for
OSK. The only thing missing in the "Personal" package is the C compiler,
which for a deveolper/progammer might be a problem, but not the average
user. And the GCC version is available.


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;35;43mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93481 28-AUG 23:11 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93472)
     From: KSCALES      To: DSRTFOX

 >The only thing missing in the "Personal" package is the C
 > compiler, which for a deveolper/progammer might be a problem, but not the
 > average user. And the GCC version is available.

However, I believe that the GCC compiler still relies upon the Microware
assembler.  Until the GNU assembler is ported to support OSK...

I wonder if any of the vendors will be licensing Ultra-C from Microware?
(For example, PT customers (only) can buy Ultra-C from them at a much
more reasonable price -- in fact, it would have been cheaper for me to
buy a PT board and then get Ultra-C, than to just buy U-C for my MM/1,
since IMS didn't license it, and PT couldn't give MM/1 owners the
special rate.)

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

93483 29-AUG 00:41 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93481)
     From: BOISY        To: KSCALES

Hi Ken,

I understand that Kreider Electronics will be selling the
Microware K&R C compiler package with manuals (perhaps through
Wittman Computer Products).  I'm not sure of the price though.

Regards

-*-

93494 29-AUG 19:56 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93472)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DSRTFOX

Frank,

Your message is quite well to the point. I would like to add one angle
to the subject.  I must say that I don't wish to speak of any one system
as having any superiority over another...  I don't think I would be
dissatisfied with any of the 4 "brands" we now have.

 > Ed, the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price. For
 > the $400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a cobbled
 > together system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions licensed from MW,
 > some special utilities and drivers written by Karl, and some PD utils),
 > but has all the major components.

Yes, from what I have seen, the AT-306 is a great system.  It may be the
key for many to gain entry into the OSK field.  I would say that you
can build the AT-306 up to full specs for any of the systems.  However,
I cannot shake the feeling that the PT/Delmar systems have been given the
reputation for being much more expensive.  I believe that you can strip
them down to where you can have them for little more than any of the others.
They may cost a little more, but I don't think it is that much more when
you make them totally equivalent.

From my experience, I think you should have 4 Meg of memory (3 is OK on
the MM/1) to do serious work.  If you want, you can get by on a Terminal
System, but to really fly, you need your own video to do the windows stuff.

 > The only thing missing in the "Personal" package is the C
 > compiler, which for a deveolper/progammer might be a problem, but not the
 > average user. And the GCC version is available.

Yes, that is true.  Many do prefer this version, so it will probably be
not a big handicap.  Personally, I like my 3.2 MW compiler.  The only
thing about using GCC, as we discussed here, is the fact that you need
to be open with your source.

As I said, any system is great.  They all are quite capable, but I would
suggest that any potential purchaser carefully analyze what he wishes to
do with his system, how far he expects to go with it, and how much
expansion is available for the system in question and at what cost.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93517 31-AUG 05:28 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93472)
     From: EDELMAR      To: DSRTFOX

 Frank,

 > the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price.  For the
 > $400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a cobbled together
 > system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions licensed from MW, some
 > special utilities and drivers written by Karl, and some PD utils), but has
 > all the major components.  ...  The only thing missing in the "Personal"
 > package is the C compiler, which for a deveolper/progammer might be a
 > problem, but not the average user. And the GCC version is available.

 I responded to Boisy's message in the vein of a machine for programmers.
 From Msg 93308, I quote -

 "The AT306 represents a chance for us, the personal OS-9 programmers, to
 start over and do things right.  ..."

 As such, the AT-306 will not include a C Compiler, assembler and linker.
 (To the best of my knowledge, GCC does not include an assembler or linker
 for OS9.)  Further, the SYSTEM IV includes the full MW documentation.
 Purchased separately, this costs $200.00.  Considering the SYSTEM IV is
 available for as low as $999 assembled, tested and ready to run, I doubt
 the AT-306 will price out any lower if the C-Compiler and documentation
 are included.  Further, the SYSTEM IV is fully supported.  While the AT-306
 board may be supported, the buyer is on his own when adding accessories such
 as hard drive, floppies, PS, video card, etc.  An example of the support is
 the availability of Ultra-C to buyers of the SYSTEM IV for only $300.00.
 The regular price is $1295.

 I'm not knocking the AT-306 - simply trying to put everything in perspective.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO
read new ns ft


-*-

93565 5-SEP 06:52  General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93494)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: DBREEDING

On 29-AUG 19:56 DBREEDING said to DSRTFOX
   > Frank,
   > Your message is quite well to the point. I would like to add one angle
   > to the subject.  I must say that I don't wish to speak of any one
   >system as having any superiority over another...  I don't think I
   >would be dissatisfied with any of the 4 "brands" we now have.
   > > Ed, the only advantage the AT-306 has over the System IV is price.
   >For > the $400, you also get "Personal OS-9", which is (admittedly) a
   >cobbled > together system (Industrial OSK with a couple additions
   >licensed from MW, > some special utilities and drivers written by
   >Karl, and some PD utils), > but has all the major components.
   > Yes, from what I have seen, the AT-306 is a great system.  It may be
   >the key for many to gain entry into the OSK field.  I would say that you
   > can build the AT-306 up to full specs for any of the systems.  However,
   > I cannot shake the feeling that the PT/Delmar systems have been given
   >the reputation for being much more expensive.  I believe that you can
   >strip them down to where you can have them for little more than any of
   >the others. They may cost a little more, but I don't think it is that
   >much more when you make them totally equivalent.

David, I priced these out in a previous issue. The system itself IS priced
about like the AT306 if you get the boards and build it yourself. The
problem here is that OS-9/68K costs an additioanl $300. So you spend about
$300-$400 more on a PT68K (System IV). If you want a basic OSK system, not
G-windows or any real graphics capabilities, then you can get a PT68K2 board
for significantly less.




Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;36;40mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93566 5-SEP 06:52  General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93517)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: EDELMAR

On 31-AUG 05:28 EDELMAR said to DSRTFOX
   > Frank,
   > I responded to Boisy's message in the vein of a machine for
   >programmers. From Msg 93308, I quote -
   > "The AT306 represents a chance for us, the personal OS-9 programmers,
   >to start over and do things right.  ..."
   > As such, the AT-306 will not include a C Compiler, assembler and
   >linker. (To the best of my knowledge, GCC does not include an
   >assembler or linker for OS9.)  Further, the SYSTEM IV includes the
   >full MW documentation. Purchased separately, this costs $200.00.
   >Considering the SYSTEM IV is available for as low as $999 assembled,
   >tested and ready to run, I doubt the AT-306 will price out any lower
   >if the C-Compiler and documentation are included.  Further, the SYSTEM
   >IV is fully supported.  While the AT-306 board may be supported, the
   >buyer is on his own when adding accessories such as hard drive,
   >floppies, PS, video card, etc.  An example of the support is the
   >availability of Ultra-C to buyers of the SYSTEM IV for only $300.00.
   >The regular price is $1295.
   > I'm not knocking the AT-306 - simply trying to put everything in
   >perspective.
   > Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO

Ed, I guess you are correct. What some of the MM/1 users are doing is buying
the older version of OSK along with the new machine and using the C compiler
from there. As a programmers/developers machine, the System V is probably
the best buy with software and performance. The AT306 is probably a better
"users machine", providing the best bang for the buck to start off with. My
understanding is that you will be selling some of the AT-306 boards also?
They would be good as smart terminals/workstations paired with a System V
server, I would think!


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;32;44mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93577 6-SEP 19:48  General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93565)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DSRTFOX

 > However, > I cannot shake the feeling that the PT/Delmar systems have been
 > given >the reputation for being much more expensive.  I believe that you
 > can >strip them down to where you can have them for little more than any
 > of >the others. They may cost a little more, but I don't think it is
 > that >much more when you make them totally equivalent.
 >
 > David, I priced these out in a previous issue. The system itself IS
 > priced about like the AT306 if you get the boards and build it yourself.
 > The problem here is that OS-9/68K costs an additioanl $300. So you spend
 > about $300-$400 more on a PT68K (System IV). If you want a basic OSK
 > system, not G-windows or any real graphics capabilities, then you can get
 > a PT68K2 board for significantly less.

Yes, now that you mention it, I remember that article.  I probably need to
go back and review it.  I'm sure that the P-T type systems may be a little
higher, but, again, we need to remember that we want to compare the
systems when they are equal.  FWIW, and it may be a minor concern for
many, but the AT306 comes with personal OS9. If you are not going to
do any programming, then this would probably be the most logical way
to go.  However, should you decide you will want to do some C programming,
then you will have to then buy the compiler.  I think it was mentioned
that GNU C is available, but you still don't get the assembler/linker.
However, as a side note, did I read somewhere that you could upgrade
the OS to 2.4 Professional for around $50?

There is no doubt that the AT306 _is_ as good buy, especially if you have
access to cheap components, like used drives, already have a case or can
find one cheaply.  However, the point I wanted to make is that when many
think about the Delmar/PT systems, they immediately think something like
"twice as much", and I think this reputation is undeserved.

When I was making my mind up to purchase, I did a lot of comparative
shopping. I compared the System 4/5 to the MM/1.  Of course I got my
system configured pretty well decked-out, I could have gotten it for
less,  but I got a System 5, 25-MHz CPU, 4 Meg memory, 210 meg HD,
G-Windows plus the Development System.  With this system, I got
a parallel port already hooked up and 4 serial ports.

Now, in comparison with the MM/1, I could have gotten a system really
cheap, what is the startup price, $600 m/l? for a system in a case?

However, to make it viable, you need a HD and you really need the I/O
board as a minimum.  And to really get serious, you need to get the
9(?) Meg upgrade, of course you can get by with the 3 meg standard for
quite some time.  I have not really had any problems with my 4 meg as of
yet.

However, the AT306 bypasses some of these problems.  You have most of the
stuff available.  You have a pretty sizeable memory upgrade potential,
don't you?  A parallel port is already onboard, it accepts SVGA (I think
this is becoming increasingly important).  Actually, I agree that it _is_
a really neat system, I may get one to play around with myself, but I
still think one contemplating buyng a system should look at all the
aspects and be sure of his choice.  Each system has its strong points
and each has a little drawback that another of the systems does not
have.  I feel that one system might be better for one person whereas
for someone else, another system would be better suited.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93578 6-SEP 19:48  General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93566)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DSRTFOX

 > As a programmers/developers machine, the System V is
 > probably the best buy with software and performance. The AT306 is probably
 > a better "users machine",

This was almost the exact statement I intended to make in my previous
reply to you but forgot to <G>.  I think you hit the nail on the head
with this observation.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93620 10-SEP 18:56 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93566)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: DSRTFOX

 Quoting the previous text is neat in some cases.   On the other hand
 reprinting what is already printed,, and especially when the quote text
 is L OOOOOONNNNN GGGG EEE RRRR then your reply,, it seems kinda silly.
 Doesn't it??  Terry g

-*-

93631 11-SEP 07:25 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93577)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: DBREEDING


You are correct David, one should look at all available systems. As to
choosing the System IV over an MM/1, I think that was a VERY good choice!
The System IV is a lot more flexible in configuration. The new MM/1b (AT306
board) is comparable to the System IV (PT68K4 board) in most, if not all,
respects. I actually think the I/O on the AT306 is a bit better, with all
the ports on the motherboard. But in any case, the buyer has to compare and
make a reasonable choice for themselves.


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;30;42mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93647 13-SEP 22:28 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93620)
     From: DBREEDING    To: MRUPGRADE

 > Quoting the previous text is neat in some cases.   On the other hand
 > reprinting what is already printed,, and especially when the quote text
 > is L OOOOOONNNNN GGGG EEE RRRR then your reply,, it seems kinda silly.
 > Doesn't it??  Terry g

It depends.  It is a good idea to give some idea as to what you are replying
to.  Often I get a reply to a message and it is quite unclear as to what
I said, and I cannot remember what the subject was even about.  With "ix",
you go in and read "NEW" messages.  In this mode, you cannot jump to
old messages that have already been read.  If you need to refresh your
memory, you have to quit this mode, go into "read all" mode, find that
message and then come back.  I'm sure we do go overboard on quoting but
sometimes a little too much is better than not enough.


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93656 16-SEP 00:50 General Information
     RE: The New AT306 (Re: Msg 93631)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DSRTFOX (NR)

 > You are correct David, one should look at all available systems. As to
 > choosing the System IV over an MM/1, I think that was a VERY good choice!

Well.. I wouldn't say the MM/1 would have been a bad choice.  I don't think
I would have been unhappy with an MM/1.

 > The System IV is a lot more flexible in configuration.

Yes, this is one advantage.  I think the biggest limit to the Sys 4 is
that it is limited to a maximum of 4 Meg memory, if I am not mistaken.
I think this is adequate for many purposes.  I have 4 meg right now and
have not been pressed yet.

 > The new MM/1b
 > (AT306 board) is comparable to the System IV (PT68K4 board) in most, if
 > not all, respects. I actually think the I/O on the AT306 is a bit better,
 > with all the ports on the motherboard.

I may be wrong on this, but I would think the AT306 might have a little
more expansion capability than a Sys 4 if you want to push it to its
limit.  At least in memory.  I'm not sure about what is on the motherboard
of a Sys 4.  I thought the serial ports were and perhaps the printer port.
I don't know how the CPU's would compare, whether there would be any
functional difference or not.

I have a Sys 5 myself.  All the ports you would need to get started are
on the M/B.  There are 4 serial ports, the floppy controller, an IDE
controller, and your parallel ports are all on the M/B.  If you can
stand the pressure, you can stick 128 Meg of memory on the board.  This
would be just a little rich for my blood <G>.

I think what makes the Delmar/PT systems and the AT-306 so attractive is
the capability of using standard PC cards.  The big rub of this is that
you just can't run down to Wal-Mart, pick up just any old video card,
for example, take it home, plug it in and expect it to work.  You still
have to stick with what they have written drivers for or be able to write
your own, but I think as time goes on and if the market expancs, the
choices will expand also.

 > But in any case, the buyer has to
 > compare and make a reasonable choice for themselves.

Yes, this is the bottom line.  I believe I saw a message from Ken Scales,
(I think it was he), and he said that he had recommended OSK systems to
three different people just in that week and for the purpose each wanted,
he recommended a different one of the three available at that time to
each of the people.  It all depends on what you want to do and how a
particular system would meet those needs.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93380 22-AUG 04:34 General Information
     Monitors
     From: COCOKIWI     To: ALL

I was lookin around the other day and came across a little
goodie for you "rich"   MM/1   Etc..CoCo computers<grin>.......
A    20"   MONITOR

       R.G.B   +   Composite/ SVGA     ...RGB will handle   COCo
to VGA
       Speakers mounted on side of monitor,,,,,comes with
Remote.....


        YES! IT is also a TV ............. and.though it is a
good one it comes with a good price TOO.......<G>........$748.00
  Big ones.......

       15Khz to 40Khz     .........20"   TV

                                                  NOT SVGA
              Toshiba        Model #  MM20E45...........Part #
at SAMS   602714

         Very nice TV/Monitor..........Expensive BUT
nice.........<Sigh>

        Dennis

-*-

93381 22-AUG 21:42 OSK Applications
     MM/1 parallel ports bidirectional?
     From: JEJONES      To: ALL

I bit the bullet and bought a printer that ought to last me a LONG time...
but it turns out that to take full advantage of it, I need to be able to
send it commands *and* listen to its responses.  So, the question I have
is: can I do that on my MM/1a's /p?  (I tried "com /p" but got back an
error 203, "bad I/O mode," so I'm not very hopeful.)  If I can't, are
there serial/parallel converters that will let me connect the way I
want?  Thanks.

Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

-*-

93382 22-AUG 21:44 General Information
     OS-9 Late Night
     From: THETAURUS    To: ALL

         This is just a note to say thanks to all who attended last
       nights Open Forum. It was another good conference, and like most
       OF's we just talked about everything :-)

         Now NEXT WEEK will be our big 1st anniversary conference. This
       should prove to be very festive. With 'the world of 68 micros'
       turning two with this issue(keep it up Frank!), and with OS-9 Late
       Night proving itself a success, there is a lot to celebrate, so
       don't miss next weeks conference!

         On Sept 4th Mike Rowen, the OS-9 Users' Group VP of 6809 will be
       returning to talk more with us about UG activity, and to hear your
       suggestions, and perhaps any plans you may have to participate!

         September 18th is going to be the Atlanta Fest Conference.
       Newton White from the Atlanta Computer Society, the group that
       sponsors the fest, will be on hand to cover anything related to
       the Atlanta fest. If you are one of the many last minute attendees
       who might need more details, don't miss 'See You in Atlanta' on
       the 18th.

         And finally, on September 25th, Kurt Johnson, President of the
       'KD Consulting Group', will be here to tell us more about
       Sculptor, the OS-9 database system of choice. Sculptor is in use
       in a wide variety of applications and by many companies and
       institutions. Come find out more about this versatile software.
       Also, as I said above, the company is called 'KD Consulting
       Group', and not 'KD Associates' which I had accidently posted
       previously. I don't know why I decided to screw that up, but it
       should be all set now. Luckily Mr. McKay keeps his eyes open when
       I don't :-)

         See Ya
         Chris Perrault
         OS-9 Users' Group
         Sourcebook Coordinator

-*-

93383 22-AUG 21:44 General Information
     RE: Alpha testers needed for FMV adventu (Re: Msg 93368)
     From: THETAURUS    To: DIGIGRADE

         >>You could still do some C debugging if you could.<<

         I'm afraid my knowledge in C is even less then what I know with
       Basic09(and you've all seen my confusion there!). I'm afraid I'm
       far from able to do it :-(

         >>Does MGR have similar buttons?<<

         I don't know, as I haven't seen it yet, tho it seems to be the
       direction that OSK systems could be headed in if the AT-306 goes
       over. That is unless G-Windows get's ported like Ed is planning to
       do, and people switch to Gwindows. MGR is shipped with the AT-306
       based machines, so like the MM/1 before it, I imagine a lot to be
       developed for this if the machines sell. Kwindows sounds like it
       is on the decline, as far as support is concerned, but don't quote
       me. Ask Boisy about the buttons, he might know.

         >>I'm sorry, but what is an AT-306. Am I really that out of
       touch? :)<<

         AT-306 is the new board designed by Kreider Electronics and is
       what is in the current MM/1B(heard of that one yet?) and
       Whittman's WCP-306. I thought of it originally as another update
       to the MM/1, but after learning more about it, it is a completely
       new design. Hardware, as Ed Gresic said,is similar to the System
       IV in that it's less Coco geared and aimed more at more powerfull
       hardware and software capabilities, such as being able to use PC
       type cards with the proper descriptors, and has the ability to
       run, as Boisy put it, more mature GUI's, such as MGR and Gwindows.
       I can't comment personally as I haven't seen any  of them in
       action, but the description tells me this is an improvement. This
       is probably the way the MM/1 should have originally been done. The
       next few months will be interesting for the new machine!

         See Ya

         Chris Perrault
         OS-9 Users' Group
         Sourcebook Coordinator

-*-

93392 23-AUG 04:10 General Information
     RE: Alpha testers needed for FMV adventu (Re: Msg 93383)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: THETAURUS


    So... this is the MM/1B. Interesting. Very interesting.


      Dave


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93384 22-AUG 22:00 Telecom (6809)
     web viewing
     From: DOMM         To: ALL

Could someone please tell me what is the minimum hardware needed to
view graphics on the web?

Thanks.

---Dom

-*-

93385 22-AUG 23:21 Telecom (6809)
     RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93384)
     From: RICKLT       To: DOMM

You need a Web Browser, and the cheapest way to use one is on a PC clone
under you guesed it under Windows.  Rick

-*-

93386 23-AUG 00:05 Telecom (6809)
     RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93385)
     From: DOMM         To: RICKLT

Rick---

OH, MAN! *@'&#$@*"!

---Dom

-*-

93393 23-AUG 09:03 Telecom (6809)
     RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93384)
     From: JIMDIXON     To: DOMM

Dom:
     Rick is correct if you want interactive viewing, but if you simply
want to be able to download the graphics for later viewing, and can
live with a text only interface, there is an MS-DOS based version of
lynx called DosLynx which should work.  Is anyone working on an OS-9
based browser?  I suspect that lynx could be ported to OSK without
TOO many problems, but the market could really use a good graphics based
package.
                                                           James Dixon

-*-

93400 23-AUG 23:18 Telecom (6809)
     RE: web viewing (Re: Msg 93393)
     From: DOMM         To: JIMDIXON

James---

> ...there is an MS-DOS based version...

Wouldn't help me, I don't have anything that can run MS-Dos.

> Is anyone working on an OS-9 based browser?

Don't know - would be nice though - someday I'd like to get another setup
and I'd like to stay with OS-9. The only thing now that I feel lacking
is "viewing" the net. I use OS-9 for motor/relay etc.. control and can
more or less do what I want. <G>


---Dom



-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93391 23-AUG 03:53 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93196)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: JOHNBAER

 > The other kick is, from the info in that bata release, that there
 > won't be a Mac version.  Now, if Delphi doesn't care enough to do a
 > Mac version, (not enough Mac people here?) what chance do the rest
 > of us have ? ...
 >
 > I think we better start that yelling campaign real soon ;-)

     Yes! Defenately! The User's Group will have to find a new nesting
place, or buy 286es. :/

     If they flush the Mac Users too, I will quit Delphi. There will be no
way for me to Log on! I'm tempted to get rid of my Telenut Account since
I don't do much serious D/Ling anymore. Then I'll just have this one on
10/4. I didn't like my last bill on AOL, $75! It's because browsing in
AOL is like walking through a freaking musieum. Before you know it, youv'e
been there all day. Right now, on Delphi, I just type GO COM OS9
WHO DATA NEW <ENTER,ENTER,CTRL-Z,CTRL-Z,BYE> and I'm gone. But with the
GUI you'll have to wait for new icons, scroll, click <MORE>, wait, scroll,
click <MORE>...

     It also means people will have to junk their newly updated D-Lite
(and we will lose IX <there's allways Compuserve though>)

     They will loose the ST, Amiga, and other SIGs that don't have DOS
users, and that must be around 600 users that will have to quit.

     I'm forwarding this message to Service, and anyone who can come up
with a good petition for all the affected sigs could post them there and
say forward to service. That will make it easy, and we can show them how
many members they will lose. I doubt they will go GUI only (DOS only)
but if it looks like that's what will happen...

     I don't see much trouble in making Delphi auto-senseing like a RIPterm
deal.



      Dave


-*-

93395 23-AUG 20:25 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93391)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: DIGIGRADE

   Dave,

> ... But with the GUI you'll have to wait for new icons, scroll,
> click <MORE>, wait, scroll, click <MORE>...

  Unless these icons and most used pics are stored on your hard drive <g>.

> ... I doubt they will go GUI only (DOS only) but if it looks like
> that's what will happen...

  Well, the latest I have read in the Service Sig is something like,
`Delphi will keep the CLI as long as people use it' :)

  This is after a large number of people complained about Delphi
dropping the CLI at the end of this year.  So it seems that Delphi
does listen to it's users.  Oh, BTW.. the bigest group of complaints
came from `dos' users that don't use windows <g>.

> I don't see much trouble in making Delphi auto-senseing like a RIPterm
> deal.

  I have a feeling that Delphi will setup another set of phone's to call
into Delphi just for the GUI side.  Might be 14,400 to start with 28,800
fast behind it... but, who knows <g>.  I'm just sitting back and reading
the Service Sig side <g>.

--
   John -

 Windows isn't a virus .. Virus's _do_ something.


-*-

93396 23-AUG 20:48 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93395)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JOHNBAER

Actually, I think the intent was to keep the Text based Delphi around, and
that that fact just wasn't made clear... the New Delphi is exactly that, a New
and SEPERATE servace from the existing Delphi. As long as a demand exists for
the existing service it will continue... I think there will always be a demand
for the current text based service so I don't think there is too much to worry
about, at least not in the forseeable future...

-*-

93411 24-AUG 21:28 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93391)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > Right now, on Delphi, I just type GO COM OS9
 > WHO DATA NEW <ENTER,ENTER,CTRL-Z,CTRL-Z,BYE> and I'm gone.

I have no problem with the CLI...  I don't use it as effectively
as many, but it is very straightforward.

 > I don't see much trouble in making Delphi auto-senseing like a RIPterm
 > deal.

Speaking of RIPTerm, is this available for the Mac?  Our local BBS's
support RIPTerm.  I have not seen a Mac version, but would like to
know if it is.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93416 24-AUG 22:59 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93396)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: MITHELEN

   Hello Paul,

> Actually, I think the intent was to keep the Text based Delphi around,
> and that that fact just wasn't made clear...

  (Grin)... They should have said something from the get-go... but then,
the message count in the Service Sig would be much lower. :)

> the New Delphi is exactly that, a New and SEPERATE servace from the
> existing Delphi.

  This is what I'm finding out from all the traffic in Service and the
`News' areas.. mci & delphi joining.. starting to make more sense..

> As long as a demand exists for the existing service it will continue...

  Yea, the `use it or loose it' thinking here.. but that's ok, I'll
stay and use it as long as Delphi keeps it. :)

> I think there will always be a demand for the current text based service
> so I don't think there is too much to worry about, at least not in the
> forseeable future...

  I'll agree with you here.  WWW browsing is one thing. Doing FTP, Gopher,
Telneting, etc. is (IMO) faster with text, and I think it will always will
be.  Plus, for me, I don't like the idea of `icons & stuff' being stored
on _my_ system just to speed things up like some `other' services do. :)

  I have this feeling that Delphi just might do the GUI this way.  It will
be interesting to watch the out come.

  John -

 HELP!!  I've installed win95 and I can't boot up!


-*-

93418 24-AUG 23:09 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93411)
     From: ADITNAVEL    To: DBREEDING


Ripterm info in available in the new D/L section. Inside is the number of the
people who I believe invented Ripterm, etc.. I'm not sure, but if you give
them a call they have various free Rip 'type' programs for free (to promote
their interface <g>). If its too big a hassle with Long Dist, leave me E-mail
and I'll pop in and look about again there.



-*-

93421 25-AUG 00:49 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93411)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING


   I haven't seen RIPTerm for the Mac. I think it was something some nobody
wrote and some BBS programmers liked it and put it into their programs. I'm
waiting for Mac BBSes that operate like licaltalk networks.


     Dave

-*-

93435 26-AUG 23:06 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93418)
     From: DBREEDING    To: ADITNAVEL

 > Ripterm info in available in the new D/L section. Inside is the number of
 > the people who I believe invented Ripterm, etc.. I'm not sure, but if you
 > give them a call they have various free Rip 'type' programs for free (to
 > promote their interface <g>). If its too big a hassle with Long Dist,
 > leave me E-mail and I'll pop in and look about again there.

I have a file describing the RipTerm calls and the like..  I had thought
about doing this, but I'm not sure how much interest there would be.  Also,
it would have to be platform specific.

As a matter of fact, I did call their BBS some time ago.  (L/D is not
much of a hassle for me, it's l/d for me to access Delphi or CIS anyway <G> )

I may give it a shot sometime, just takes getting up the courage to start,
I guess...


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93436 26-AUG 23:06 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93421)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > I haven't seen RIPTerm for the Mac.

I had not seen any mention of it.

 > I think it was something some
 > nobody wrote and some BBS programmers liked it and put it into their
 > programs. I'm waiting for Mac BBSes that operate like licaltalk networks.

  Actually, I don't know how wide-spread it is.  What got my attention
is that we have 2 local BBS's and both have it implemented.  I've seen it
once and it is kinda nice.  I am not all that much into the graphical
interfaces, but it would be nice to have something like this to show off  :-)
I hate it when I tell people how great my system is and when the talk comes
to some of these capabilities, about all I can do is say, "Well, we don't
have _that_ yet, but..."

I feel we have about the best OS in the world, but just don't have
the fancy interfaces to show off.


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93437 27-AUG 00:22 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93436)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING


   Oh, as far as RIPTerm on the MM/1, I have made it a point to try my hand
at a RIPTerm menu that feeds off the capture buffer of your favorite term
program, as making a good term program (I would think) is not all that easy.


      Dave


-*-

93457 27-AUG 16:55 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93437)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > Oh, as far as RIPTerm on the MM/1, I have made it a point to try my
 > hand at a RIPTerm menu that feeds off the capture buffer of your favorite
 > term program, as making a good term program (I would think) is not all
 > that easy.

Making a complete program would take a little doing, I would think.  What
did you do, do a capture of a RIP session and then view it from that file?

I had thought about the possibility of writing a pipe to let a standard
comm program do the exchange of data, but pipe it into the RIP program
for screen display.

I think my boards use a RIP query and expect a response.

I wonder how much interest there would be for RIP capability?


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93469 28-AUG 00:26 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93457)
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: DBREEDING


    Forgive me for not quoting but I'm online live right now.
I really just wanted to do it as a personal project and learning. I would
really like to work together with you on this if you would. I am thinking
along the same lines as you and I while I am not that keen on I/O I have
been working on GUI's for the MM/1 the entire three years I have had mine.
I have written three in C and I would love to do the interface part while
you do the I/O routines.

    A month or so ago someone uploaded the official RIP protocol tech sheet.
It should still be in new uploads here in the OS9 SIG. I haven't had the
time to look at it.


        Dave


-*-

93493 29-AUG 19:56 General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late Night:Reminder (Re: Msg 93469)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DIGIGRADE

 > Forgive me for not quoting but I'm online live right now.

I get caught in this position myself, sometime..

 > I really just wanted to do it as a personal project and learning. I would
 > really like to work together with you on this if you would. I am thinking
 > along the same lines as you and I while I am not that keen on I/O I have
 > been working on GUI's for the MM/1 the entire three years I have had
 > mine. I have written three in C and I would love to do the interface part
 > while you do the I/O routines.

To be truthful, I have not gotten started with the G-Windows programming
very much yet.  I have been putting it off, and actually shirking on my
programming.  It shouldn't be much of a problem with dealing with the
I/O that much..  The biggest problem would be in writing the file transfer
stuff unless one could get permission to incorporate someone else's stuff.
One other thought would be to call up external file transfer programs.

If and when I do get up the courage to start the project, I would be glad
to collaborate on it.  As I said, it would be neat to have something like
this that everyone could use.

 > A month or so ago someone uploaded the official RIP protocol tech
 > sheet. It should still be in new uploads here in the OS9 SIG. I haven't
 > had the time to look at it.

Someone sent me something like a 80 (?)- page doc on RIP.  This may be the
same thing.  I saw the upload but suspected it might be the same thing..

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93394 23-AUG 19:19 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93318)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: BOISY

Boisy,

 Interesting message on the 306 board (yeah, I'm a week behind again). I'm
a bit puzzled by the benchmarks, though. The dhrystones look strange. I seem
to remember the original MM/1 clocking in at around 1000, not 3000+. Does
the MM/1 get faster with age, did the dhrystone "standard" change, or ???
Also, why did you pick such a *slow* clock speed for the MM/1a? Why 13.89
when the '340 is shipped set to 16.67 and a lot of people have pushed that
up to the 18-20 mhz range?

 On the hard drive speed, I'm surprised you're surprised at the results, since
you've owned both a 070 and a 340. For those that don't have the machines,
When the
340 board was built and drivers written, the DMA was seriously hobbled,
supposedly in the interests of smoother multitasking; less than half as
fast as the old 070.


   Randy

-*-

93402 23-AUG 23:51 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93394)
     From: BOISY        To: RANDYKWILSON

To Randy (and Ed) who seemed puzzled by the dhrystone values:

The program I ran was dhry2.1, grabbed off a machine at work.  My purpose
was not to promote the actual numbers, but instead the relative distance
between the numbers.

Why do I run my MM/1a at 13.89?  RAM problems ensue if I go higher.  I
start getting bus errors at random if I go higher.

I've only owned a 340, not an 070, so I am not aware of the speed of
the 68070 when it comes to disk speed.  You imply it was faster.  How
much faster?  I certainly don't know.


-*-

93406 24-AUG 02:28 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93402)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: BOISY

Boisy,

 Sorry, I thought you had upgraded to a 340, but it appears you started with
one. My disk speed comparision is based on Mark G.'s DDTEST program, which
should be here in the DB. On my MM/1a it returns 0.85 meg/sec read and 0.54
meg/sec for write. To verify the old 070 times, I just went back through
forum messages (see 58416, I think) and found that I was remembering wrong.
I thought we were getting 1.8 meg/sec on read, but I had posted 1.46. Writes
were a pedestrian 0.37.
 So, writing to the hard drive improved about like you would expect from the
340 upgrade, yet read speed was almost half as fast. Seat of the pants bears
this out. I was told that it was done to improve multitasking. I really
would like to have my blinding hard drive reads back, but have been unable
to find the proper knob to twist.

   Randy

-*-

93414 24-AUG 22:37 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93394)
     From: WA2EGP       To: RANDYKWILSON

Well, I look at the dhrystones with suspicion.  The results change with the
number of passes you tell it to use.  I would assume (and we all know what that
means) that there shouldn't be too great a difference between, let's say,
20000 passes and 50000 passes.......but that is not what I get.  If that is the
way it does work, couldn't someone pick the number of passes that would make
one machine "look" a bit better than another?  I've also wondered if the way
the MM/1 does the video (colored memory) versus a video card makes a difference
 (shades of the "double speed poke" on the CoCo).  Oh,
back to the passes.....I wonder if each machine gets the same percentage change
between different number of passes.  IF I keep this up, I think I'm gonna be
on a certain "dream team" constantly challanging the tests (grin).

-*-

93420 24-AUG 23:44 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93402)
     From: KSCALES      To: BOISY

 > I've only owned a 340, not an 070, so I am not aware of the speed of
 > the 68070 when it comes to disk speed.  You imply it was faster.  How
 > much faster?  I certainly don't know.

Boisy, as I recall it (and simplifying somewhat due to the hour)...

The difference is in how the CPU treats DMA.  With the 68070, a DMA
operation, once initiated, took over the buss until it was complete.
With the 68340, the amount of time allocated for DMA can be programmed
to be less than 100% of the buss cycles.

Under the 68070 environment, a DMA sequence effectively locks out other
operations, analogous to masking interrupts on the CC3.  One manifestation
of this arrangement is the tendency for "buffer over-runs" of the mouse
data during DMA operations.  (This can cause mouse "lock-ups" when
the mouse drivers do not provide appropriate error handling.)  However,
DMA operations are _very_ fast, evidenced by fast hard drive "read"
performance.

With the 68340 DMA programmed for less than 100% occupancy, hard drive
"read" throughput is reduced, but the probability of mouse "buffer over-runs"
occurring is drastically reduced.

Hope this helps.  I hope others will chip in with more details to explain
(or contradict if appropriate) the above.

Cheers... / Ken
 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

93423 25-AUG 07:50 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93394)
     From: JEJONES      To: RANDYKWILSON

 > Interesting message on the 306 board (yeah, I'm a week behind again).
 > I'm a bit puzzled by the benchmarks, though. The dhrystones look strange.
 > I seem to remember the original MM/1 clocking in at around 1000, not
 > 3000+. Does the MM/1 get faster with age, did the dhrystone "standard"
 > change, or ???

There are at least a couple of Dhrystone programs out and about--well, three
if you count the original, which was written in Ada.  The first Dhrystone
program tried to approximate the alleged frequency of (non-floating point)
operations, but was written such that smart compilers could notice operations
that were never used and could be deleted, thus defeating the whole purpose
of the benchmark.  The second one tries to be smarter about that, but still
has flaws--for a thorough discussion, see Hennessy (sp?) and Patterson's book
on computer architecture.

In fact, the translation from Ada to C is such that about all Dhrystone
*really* tests is how good the strcmp() and strcpy() functions are on the
C compiler you're using.  For that matter, I've read of at least one
compiler that notices it's compiling Dhrystone and does things that won't
work in general but give better numbers on Dhrystone.  Even an honest
compiler can notice that the source of a strcpy() is a string constant and
generate code more like a structure assignment (because the length is
knowable at compile time).

Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

-*-

93503 30-AUG 02:50 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93406)
     From: AJMLFCO      To: RANDYKWILSON

Just for info, I just ran ddtest on my 33Mhz Kix\30 while online
in Sterm and got 205 KBytes/sec write and 1,913 KBytes/sec read time.
I have found that the interleave value affects the write time
considerably.  I have it back to 1:1 because it gives great read
times at the expense of write speed.  From distant memory, I think
2:1 interleave doubled the write speeed and cut the read time only
a little.  I think I should have left it at 2:1.  This is all with
a Quantum 240 SCSI & DMA.
Allen

-*-

93523 31-AUG 21:46 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93414)
     From: GREGL        To: WA2EGP

Also keep in mind that dhrystone results can be changed drastically by
the C compiler being used. As a matter of fact, the original version of
dhrystone went through the iterations calculating some magic number but never
used the calculated result. Since the result was never used, many optimizing
compilers found the loop to be unnecessary so removed it from the binary.

The bottom line is that you must use the same binary to get meaningful data,
and even then the results are questionable.

        -- Greg

-*-

93524 31-AUG 22:10 General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93423)
     From: GREGL        To: JEJONES

You are exactly right. I recall compiling dhrystone with Borland C++ 3.1
many years ago and seeing the problem with strcpy() and strcmp(). At that
time, Borland's strcpy() routine in the library was somewhat slow in that
it copied the string byte-by-byte until it found the terminating NULL.
With optimizations enabled, however, it determined the strings are always
the same length so replaced the strcpy() routine with the following code:

        mov     si,[Source]
        mov     di,[Destination]
        mov     cx,Length
        rep movsb

The difference was many hundreds of clock cycles in this one step alone.
The strcpy() function in the Borland C++ 4.51 library is a lot faster than
the originals, but so is the optimized version:

        mov     si,[Source]
        mov     di,[Destination]
        mov     cx,Length & 2
        rep movsw
        movsb

In other words, the original optimization used the 80x86 REPeat instruction
(do instruction, decrement CX, repeat until CX == 0) to move single bytes
(8-bit data). The new optimization moves words (16-bit data) followed by
a single byte move if the length is odd.

The new method isn't quite twice as fast, but it's still a lot faster. Then
again, I'ver never trusted benchmark results anyway, particularly with one
with so many noticable flaws.

        -- Greg

-*-

93531 2-SEP 22:29  General Information
     RE: The new AT306 -- Impressions (Re: Msg 93523)
     From: WA2EGP       To: GREGL

Cute.  I forgot if I compiled mine or got the binary direct.  I just find it
funny how the number of passes changes the results.

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93397 23-AUG 21:02 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93279)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: KNOT1

On 12-AUG 01:29 KNOT1 said to WA2EGP
   > Now to follow up, yes, it's an MM/1 basic system, with no I/O board
   > The printers I have are a Star NX-1000 (appears to be parallel - uses
   > Blue Streak Ultima to connect when had on my CoCo) and of course the
   > old stand-by original Tandy DMP 105, which I believe has both modes,
   > though the serial is that 5-pin din jack on the back.
   > Checking the module disk, there are both /p and /p1 desctriptors, but
   > they don't seem to be included in the standard system boot lists, so
   > assumedly don't work if only have the T0 port.

Jamie, the easiest thing to do is connect one of your printers to the MM/1
using the parallel port.... or am I missing something here... the basic MM/1
doesn't have the parallel port maybe? If that is so, sorry for this! I'm not
that familiar with the configurations of the MM/1! But you are correct about
the Star printer, it is parallel.


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;30;46mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93412 24-AUG 21:28 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93397)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DSRTFOX

 > Jamie, the easiest thing to do is connect one of your printers to the
 > MM/1 using the parallel port.... or am I missing something here... the
 > basic MM/1 doesn't have the parallel port maybe? If that is so, sorry for
 > this! I'm not that familiar with the configurations of the MM/1!

Neither am I, but I believe the MM/1 does not come standard with a parallel
port.  It comes on the I/O board, that comes optionally.  It seems that
this would be one of the prime concerns, to have parallel output available.

Perhaps the thinking was that the MM/1 would be replacing a coco, so a
serial setup would be available, I don't know..

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93415 24-AUG 22:41 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93397)
     From: WA2EGP       To: DSRTFOX

The parallel ports are on the I/O board which is the added board on the
extended system.  It's possible to use a serial to parallel converter on one
of the serial ports on the processor board (at least I think it is) but I don't
know of anyone who has done it.

-*-

93453 27-AUG 16:30 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93415)
     From: KNOT1        To: DSRTFOX

Right, as was pointed out, the basic MM/1 seems to only have an output
for the monitor, and one for serial, which I currently use for my
modem.  At least, that's how mine seems to be.  I've ordered the
Technical Reference manual from Blackhawk and will see if it mentions
anything either when it arrives.

    - Jamie (KNOT1) -

-*-

93473 28-AUG 07:11 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93321)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: DBREEDING

On 17-AUG 21:03 DBREEDING said to WA2EGP
   > > Well, it certainly does push you to get new stuff for the machine.  I
   > > mean, hey, I got the software....all I need now is the hardware.
   > >  Gee, maybe that lack of printer info in the
   > > basic might just get some people to get the I/O board (grin).
   > Yes, I do believe you have a point there.  I think it was a bad
   >decision, though.
   > It could have well been that this lack of immediate compatibility, if
   > you will, might have discouraged buyers.  But, again, it seemed the
   > purchasers were there but IMS just could not have delivered.  I
   > wonder how much different things might have been had shipments gotten
   > out in relatively orderly fashion.  It could well be that the OSK
   > user base would have been much larger.
   > -- David Breeding --
   > CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
   > *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

The idea behind the MM/1 was to make it as CoCo compatible as possible.
That's why the hardware drawbacks (monitor support, which is the main
problem... support of a VGA AND CM-8 type would have been better) and
K-Windows. If you could program in Level II windows, you could go directly
to K-Windows with little or no problems at all. FHL was invited to help
design the MM/1, but declined because the "committee" type design staff
usually ends up with a well compromised machine. The only problem with the
KiX systems is the cost of a video card for a complete console system. But
it was designed for users who mainly use multiple terminals anyway. And the
special video card is amazingly fast! Frank had problems running the video
card at first... tried it at highest speed and got a white, blank screen.
After tinkering with it, finally started slowing it down. Problem? Video
card was faster than the monitor could handle! Phosphor didn't stop glowing
from one write before another was going over it... video card faster than
monitor!!!

The AT-306 was designed with functionality and cost most in mind. This meant
abandoning any CoCo hardware/software support, except for what can be ported
via traditional methods (no graphics though). Result is a much cleaner
design using current technology.


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;35;42mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93485 29-AUG 01:02 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93473)
     From: WA2EGP       To: DSRTFOX

The MM/1 should have had a mention of how to use a serial printer with it if
was to basically replace the CoCo.  It didn't.  The only KIX machine I have
seen doesn't stay running more than 10 minutes without hanging up and the
owner STILL hasn't gotten his manuals. I really hope that the new machines
have all these problems solved.

-*-

93497 29-AUG 19:57 OSK Applications
     RE: MM/1 Module Upgrading (Re: Msg 93473)
     From: DBREEDING    To: DSRTFOX

 > The idea behind the MM/1 was to make it as CoCo compatible as possible.
 > That's why the hardware drawbacks (monitor support, which is the main
 > problem... support of a VGA AND CM-8 type would have been better) and
 > K-Windows. If you could program in Level II windows, you could go
 > directly to K-Windows with little or no problems at all.

Yes, that was the original design concept of the MM/1.  It was a worthy
idea, but I think the subject of a printer port would have been better
served by including a parallel port to begin with.  Of course I must
admit that this _is_ just a personal opinion.  I know that the design
by which they included a bare minimum of components in the base machine
made for cheaper entry, but when you consider that the purchase of an
I/O board was an almost necessity for productive usage, it just seems to
me that it would have made sense to have designed them into the system
to begin with.

 > The AT-306 was designed with functionality and cost most in mind. This
 > meant abandoning any CoCo hardware/software support, except for what can
 > be ported via traditional methods (no graphics though). Result is a much
 > cleaner design using current technology.

Yes, it seems that the AT-306 _is_ a very clean design.  If I did not
have a system, I would give it some serious thought.  I might like to
give one a try anyway..<G>

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93401 23-AUG 23:49 Telecom (6809)
     New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers needed...
     From: MITHELEN     To: ADD (NR)

I'm about to release my latest port of rz/sz and need some beta testers for
OSK systems... I'm primarily interested in people with systems other
then standard MM/1 systems. This new version fixes (or atleast properly
gets around) the long standing TIMEOUT problem (which wasn't cause by
timeouts at all, but by device read errors) While you may get"Garbled
data paket" while dong other things, it WILL recover with no problems...
I just have to finish the sz.c changes and beta packages will be ready
to send out... probably by saturday... Please send me email with your
system setup info if you'd like to be a beta tester.
--
 Paul Jerkatis - SandV BBS (708)352-0948: OS-9 Support
 UUCP: mithelen@sandv.chi.il.us         Internet: mithelen@delphi.com

-*-

93404 24-AUG 00:02 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93401)
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

Ok, great, now wheres the os9 level 2 version? I think you still have my
email address here.
Cheers Paul, Gene

-*-

93407 24-AUG 02:29 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93404)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WDTV5

A new Level 2 version will be released also...  Provoided I can still get
it to compile 8-)
--
Paul

-*-

93408 24-AUG 05:45 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93401)
     From: EDELMAR      To: MITHELEN

 Paul,

 Be happy to assist you in beta testing your latest port of rz/sz.  I can
 test on SYSTEM IV, a SYSTEM V and maybe an AT306 in a few weeks.

 Ed Gresick - DELMAR CO
 EDELMAR

-*-

93413 24-AUG 21:45 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93401)
     From: DBREEDING    To: MITHELEN

Paul,

 > I'm about to release my latest port of rz/sz and need some beta testers
 > for OSK systems...

I see Ed has already offered to test it on his systems, but if you want
another System 5, I can give it a shot.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93419 24-AUG 23:44 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93407)
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

I hope the crc stuffs I did still survive. That s/b good for a 50 cps speedup.
Cheers Paul, Gene

-*-

93424 25-AUG 14:07 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93419)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WDTV5

Ya.. your CRC stuff is still in there... I hope you can find the time
in the future to add some more ASM optimizations for the 6809.


I've been haveing the darndest time in the last 2 days getting even the
OSK version to compile... I think my memory on my MM/1 may be going...
Something really strange, cause sometimes it will compile fine, and other
it messes the memory aloocation on the final executable (like trying to give
it several hunderd MEG of RAM!) I'ts really meen driveing me crazy... I
got the MM/1 in "spider" mode (ie, with the convertable top down) now, and
it seems to be behaveing... I finished porting the new sz code last night
and just have a few bugs in it to work out (must have made some typos).
Once I get that working, then I'll fire up m6809 emulator and try a coco
type compile... hopefully my system won't die all together before then.
If so, then I'll have to set up the C compiler under the CoCo 3 emulator
on my DOS box...
--
Paul

-*-

93427 26-AUG 02:27 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93407)
     From: WILLIAMSON68 To: MITHELEN

 I would be more than happy to beta test a new rz/sz for level 2. The timeouts
that I have run into have kept me from using z-modem transfers for quite some
time. I can test on 512k 6309/6809, 128k 6809- with standard rs232.

-*-

93432 26-AUG 17:33 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93424)
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

Or, just send it my way. I'm looking for a new project to excersize the new
stuffs Wes G., Alan D. etc have been doing in the last few months. I've even
done a bit of shrinking of the 6309 version of rbf.mn, incorporating all the
bug fixes we've found in our combined tours of that code. Next project? rzsz?
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93438 27-AUG 02:16 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93432)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WDTV5

I still think someone should tear apart cc3disk, and fix it so it can handle
disks with BAM's greater then FFF bytes... Then I could make huge virtual
floppies on the CoCo 3 emulator on my PC and have a better setup for doing
CoCo support of RZSZ...
--
Paul

-*-

93446 27-AUG 14:01 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93438)
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

Since when does it have a 12 bit limitation? I've not looked at the code
personally in recent history, but a 12 bit limit to the BAM doesn't seem to
make sense given the 16 bit BAM I'm used to on the harddrives. Hummm which
cc3disk are you refering to? I've got maybe 10 versions here but run the
no-halt 99.99% of the time. Its not given any trouble here other than its
not being compatible with either pc-dos or rs-dos, the two get/put utils
for foreign disks like messydawg etc.
Have you looked at the code for "myram"? AFAIK, it should not have any such
limits, and if there are any, its not in my code but in ioman or rbf, and
I can say that rbf is clean in that regard since at least ed28.
A 12 bit limit just doesn't seem to make sense to me. I run it at 1 meg all
the time (myram) here, but thats thru ioman/rbf, not cc3disk. Check with
Alan Dekok. If cc3disk has a limit, its the only known limit in the system.
(thats smaller than the $FFFF limit for rbf that is)
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93451 27-AUG 16:27 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93446)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WDTV5

It indead has a 12 bit limit (cc3disk) limmiting floppy disk sizes to 1 Meg.
This has been verified. Why it was designed that way, I don't know... This
applies to all versions of cc3disk baised off of Tandy's original. I
don't know about others. A ram disk is just not practicle on theCoCo 3
emulator, since you are already limited to 512k, and ram disk access appears
_slower_ then virtual floppy access. It would be REALLY benificial to be
able to set up, say, a 20 meg virtual floppy, but wight now, that is
impossible with the current cc3disk...

I'd like to try SDisk, but I don't have a copy to test... If it worked, I'd
be more then willing to buy a copy from whoever it is available from.

-*-

93464 27-AUG 20:58 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93438)
     From: DBREEDING    To: MITHELEN

Paul,

While you're working on rz, here's something to add to the wish list <what
else>

I've found that if you try to download a file and the filename already
exists, it apparently neither warns you nor attempts to correct this
condition.  In downloading QWK files, in PKZip format, one of my BBS's
always transmits the same filename, and if I forget to delete the old
file, my new file does not appear.  The new file has the correct length
for the download, but on unzipping it, all I can get is the data from the
OLD file. I really don't know what is happening.  Could this possibly
be fixed?  It could be the source for problems if not taken care of.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93465 27-AUG 21:16 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93464)
     From: MITHELEN     To: DBREEDING

This is NOT a problem with the os9 rz/sz port... the BBS that is transmitting
simply needs to add the "-y" option to tell the receiver to "clobber" existing
files... Although, I dpn't know why the file size would get changed to that of
the new file...
--
Paul

-*-

93474 28-AUG 19:17 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93451)
     From: JMURPHY      To: MITHELEN

> It indead has a 12 bit limit (cc3disk) limmiting floppy disk sizes to 1 Meg.
> This has been verified. Why it was designed that way, I don't know... This
> applies to all versions of cc3disk baised off of Tandy's original. I
> don't know about others. A ram disk is just not practicle on theCoCo 3
> emulator, since you are already limited to 512k, and ram disk access appears
> _slower_ then virtual floppy access. It would be REALLY benificial to be
> able to set up, say, a 20 meg virtual floppy, but wight now, that is
> impossible with the current cc3disk...
>
> I'd like to try SDisk, but I don't have a copy to test... If it worked, I'd
> be more then willing to buy a copy from whoever it is available from.
>

I've got to differ with you on this:

I routinely run a 10 meg vdisk, and some folks on the COCO fido echo
run with larger.

No problems as far as we can see. You do need to be running 1.42 of the
CC3 emulator, however.

John Murphy jmurphy@delphi.com

-*-

93476 28-AUG 20:48 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93474)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JMURPHY

I believe I have tried 1.42 (that was the update sent out earlier this summer,
right?) I'd appreciate a complete list of modules/patches that you are running.
Especially in the area of floppy access, and kernel patches... I have
repeatedly trashed out virtual disks over 1 meg as soon and I have copied
more then 1 meg of stuff to them... Quite anoying, especially after makeing
all them upgrade patches...
--
Paul

-*-

93478 28-AUG 20:53 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93451)
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

Well, my ram.dr that I uploaded here doesn't have that limitation, I have
experimentally copied 2 75=k floppies to it, and then copied them back, humm,
that s/b 765k above, an 85 track double sided floppy. I used the @ sign to
get it all going both ways. Worked just fine on my 2 meg coco 3. Slow? Well,
maybe, I get a megaread from the Maxtor at 12.75 secs average, an 11 secs
from the ramdisk, I figure the OS9 F$MOVE is the speed limit there.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93480 28-AUG 22:43 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93476)
     From: JMURPHY      To: MITHELEN

Paul,

First off, stupid question: What's a BAM?

I'll dig up my modules list and post it later...
I AM using the CC3DISK that the last version of PCDOS required,
if that tells you anything.

John

-*-

93484 29-AUG 00:55 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93480)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JMURPHY

BAM = Bit Allocation Map. I believe that CC#disk you have is Edition 11,
which is the version I have been trying to use...
--
Paul

-*-

93487 29-AUG 06:43 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93484)
     From: JMURPHY      To: MITHELEN

> BAM = Bit Allocation Map. I believe that CC#disk you have is Edition 11,
> which is the version I have been trying to use...
> --
> Paul
>

OK,  is this related to DD.MAP, which is the number of bytes
in the map?

John

-*-

93490 29-AUG 10:10 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93487)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JMURPHY

Ya... I believe that is correct... I don't have OS-9 Manuals handy anymore
so can't check...
--
Paul

-*-

93496 29-AUG 19:57 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93465)
     From: DBREEDING    To: MITHELEN

 > This is NOT a problem with the os9 rz/sz port... the BBS that is
 > transmitting simply needs to add the "-y" option to tell the receiver to
 > "clobber" existing files... Although, I dpn't know why the file size would
 > get changed to that of the new file...

Can I add this option on my end?  I always try to just delete the older file.

Yes, my new file is the same length as given in the ZModem header,and
also as reported by the BBS.  But all I see is the data from the previous
download.


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93499 29-AUG 20:16 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93496)
     From: MITHELEN     To: DBREEDING

Nope, cause Zmodem is supposed to be Sender driven. Thus, all the options
for trnasfer come from the sending end...
__
Paul

-*-

93513 30-AUG 23:52 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93480)
     From: WDTV5        To: JMURPHY

Thats the same as a FAT, John. Stands for Bit Allocation Map, or File
Allocation Table. Means the same thing essentially, and what it is is that
area od an os9 disk that starts at sector 1's first byte, and continues
until enought bytes have been used up with each bit of each byte have
a 0 or 1 state that tells the operating system if there is anything
stored in the sector that the bit represents. Normally each bit equals
one sector, but under very large disk conditions it can be made to
represent any power of 2, as in 2,4,8,16,32 etc sectors. On the disk,
this means that the file descriptor sector, and the root directory
location on the disk are variable. With my 1 sector/bit map, my root
directory on this maxtor 7120s actually starts at sector $F3! Doing
the initial, after bootup search thru a map this big looking for a place to
put the first file written after bootup is a 15 second process even on
a 6309 equipt, nitros9 running coco3. RBF remebers where the empty space
starts, so the next write is much faster. And that is probably more than
you wanted to know about the subject! 8:)
Cheers John, Gene

-*-

93514 30-AUG 23:54 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93487)
     From: WDTV5        To: JMURPHY

Yes
Cheers John, Gene

-*-

93522 31-AUG 20:37 Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93499)
     From: DBREEDING    To: MITHELEN

 > Nope, cause Zmodem is supposed to be Sender driven. Thus, all the options
 > for trnasfer come from the sending end...

OK...  The question of overwriting files is moot in this case anyway.. this
BBS closed down..  The other local BBS allows you to specify that the
filename gets a different number in the name... so it is not a problem
with it.

It wasn't a problem on the other one till I got hasty and forgot to delete.
Usually before a dload I'd just do a "dir *.qwk" to be sure it wasn't
there.

I have been trying the beta rz/sz with the local BBS.  Have had no problems
with it that I can tell - of course I must say that 3.24 seemed practically
bulletproof on my system.

I did notice one little cosmetic thing.. but does not affect performance.
With the -vv option, it does not report the last partial block, but this would
be more cosmetic than anything else.  I normally use this option since
it's nice to get a progress report.

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93553 4-SEP 15:27  Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93438)
     From: MIKE_GUZZI   To: MITHELEN

ive made a 9 meg partition with the coco3 emulator for os9. works good for me.
if you want i can tell you how to do it.

Mike

-*-

93557 4-SEP 20:39  Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93553)
     From: MITHELEN     To: MIKE_GUZZI

Sure, send me a dmode output of you discriptor... I haven't been able to
set up OS-9 yet on the PC, and won't get to it for at least another week or
two (I'll be out in NY all this week)
--
Paul

-*-

93584 7-SEP 22:22  Telecom (6809)
     RE: New Zmodem 3.36.0 beta testers neede (Re: Msg 93553)
     From: WDTV5        To: MIKE_GUZZI

Hi Mike, sounds good. I'm listening with both my worn out ears!
Cheers, Gene

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93405 24-AUG 02:08 Users Group
     User's Group Help
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: ALL


    Hi gang, I need help from the users group to debug a tiny routine. I am a
member. This is one of the prime functions of the users group yes?



     Dave

-*-

93426 26-AUG 00:06 Users Group
     RE: User's Group Help (Re: Msg 93405)
     From: CHYDE        To: DIGIGRADE

What's your problem, my Basic and assembler are a little rusty, but my C nad
Lisp are up to speed <G>.  We can talk in mail also to save space in the
message area <g>.

        Chris

-*-

93510 30-AUG 23:17 Users Group
     RE: User's Group Help (Re: Msg 93405)
     From: LARRYOLSON   To: DIGIGRADE

 > Hi gang, I need help from the users group to debug a tiny routine. I am a
 > member. This is one of the prime functions of the users group yes?

 Dave
       If you would e-mail me what you are having a problem with, maybe I
   could help.

   Larry


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93422 25-AUG 07:26 General Information
     RE: PC (Re: Msg 93335)
     From: PHXKEN       To: CLTUCKER

The CoCoII Emulator is at SimTel under msdos/emulator and the
instructions are
in that file for obtaining the coco3 emulator.  It is also
available in Atlanta at ACS bbs.

phxken@delphi.com phxken@class68.com
phxken@aztec.asu.edu(preferred)
http://www.ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ah712/Profile.html in
Halifax,N.S.,Ca.
***Physical home in Phoenix, Arizona USA***

-*-

93425 25-AUG 21:04 General Information
     PC
     From: CLTUCKER     To: PHXKEN

Thanks for the info. on the emulator. I will pursue that route in an
effort to get RSDOS up and runnin on the PC(g)
cl

-*-

93428 26-AUG 05:03 Standards
     **** Ch.A.O.S. ****
     From: WOODZY       To: ALL

Hi, and welcome to Ch.A.O.S. Country.  Welcome to the revolution.  The Cheyenne
Area Orphaned Systems, or Ch.A.O.S., is a club devoted solely for the
preservation of classic non-IBM systems, such as ours, and for the defeat of
Microsoft.  If we wanted IB
M compatability, we would have abandoned our systems long ago.  Those of us who
do have IBMs, but still use our classics, only bought them out of necessity,
such as for work or school.This is not a political organization.  We do not
hold any specific r
ight wing or left wing political views.  We do believe in fair competition and
Microsoft is NOT fair.  We spent all that time and money on our respective
systems because the performed the task or tasks we bought them for.  Wether it
be for gaming, educat
ion, office, or whatever, our classic systems performed upto our expectations,
and in some cases, beyond the original design.  Why should we abandoned
everything we put into our systems?I have been working on the designs of two
programs that I feel wou
ld unite all of our systems, yet retain the sovereignty or flavor of each
individual system:1.  A terminal shell with game maker to allow two or more
non-compatable systems to play games over the modem or in a mini-network.  Of
course, standard protoco
ls will have to be set between computers to ensure game play.  But, graphics
between two different systems wont have to be the same because screen data wont
be sent, just tiny info packets.  The games would take full advantage of the
graphics and sound c
apabilities of each individual system.  The games would be played as close to
real time as possible.2.  A DEVICE OPERATING SYSTEM (DOS) desgined on a
bi-level format:  The primary level is a whole new computer that provides
cross-platform compatability
 between our classic systems.  The computer will be based on the PowerPC.  This
will allow each classic system to be enhanced to that of at least a 486.
Without losing much compatability with the existing sytems.  Full compatability
is not guaranteed be
cause of the new enhancements to each individual operating system.  But, at
least you wont have to abandon your whole classic system!  The secondary level
is a whole new disk operating system for the original classic.  This will allow
direct disk access
communication between ALL systems.  Yes, even IBM.  Just imagine, a C64 computer

operating system with 38k free RAM, can now have as much as 3.75 Meg free RAM on

a 4 Meg System!  This is directly accessable without bankswitching or even use
as a RAMDISK!
  Just imagine the fresh, new applications that can be developed that retained
the original C64s flavor.  No, this is not limited to the C64, but to all
classic systems, such as the Atari, Tandy CoCo, VIC20 (YES!), Apple, etc.All
of our classic systems
 have their own uniqueness, their own distinctiveness.  That is why we refused
to follow the industry or marketing trends.  This would allow us to preserve our

systems and at the same time develop a cross-platform industry standard.  Who
says we have to
follow the Microsoft standard?  Lets follow a standard, sure, but we should also

be allowed to keep our systems we have devoted so much time and energy
into!Cheyenne Area Orphaned Systemsc/o Jeffrey Wood813 Covered Wagon
DriveCheyenne, Wyoming  820
07-1671

-*-

93433 26-AUG 17:37 Standards
     RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93428)
     From: WDTV5        To: WOODZY

What did he say? I've had this same msg come down on the amiga sig, he must have

cross-posted it to the whole world. If it made any sense, I might be able to
reply, but as it stands, it looks like spam, it walfs like spam, so oit must
be spam. Stick it back in the fridge where it belongd before it spoils!

-*-

93448 27-AUG 15:46 Standards
     RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93433)
     From: DBREEDING    To: WDTV5

 > What did he say? I've had this same msg come down on the amiga sig, he
 > must have
 > cross-posted it to the whole world. If it made any sense, I might be able
 > to reply, but as it stands, it looks like spam,

Yep!  Dunno how many copies I have...  I've seen it almost everywhere
I go..  To tell the truth, I didn't read it very closely, but it did
sound like gibberish..

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93477 28-AUG 20:49 Standards
     RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93448)
     From: WDTV5        To: DBREEDING

Well, if ya wanted to take the trouble to convert the various crlf conventions
to ours, and reformat it into sentences and paragraphs, it might make sense.
He is wanting to preserve oddball computers such as ours. Me, I can't make up
my mind if I resent or resemble that 8:)
Cheers Dave, Gene

-*-

93498 29-AUG 19:57 Standards
     RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93477)
     From: DBREEDING    To: WDTV5

 > Well, if ya wanted to take the trouble to convert the various crlf
 > conventions to ours, and reformat it into sentences and paragraphs, it
 > might make sense. He is wanting to preserve oddball computers such as
 > ours. Me, I can't make up my mind if I resent or resemble that 8:)

It looked like he was looking for an additional source of income <G>


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93511 30-AUG 23:43 Standards
     RE: **** Ch.A.O.S. **** (Re: Msg 93498)
     From: WDTV5        To: DBREEDING

I do expect that not only may have crossed his mind, but some sort of a
scam was in the offing, 'cept of course to him its not a scam.
To: ALL (while I'm here), I've been messing around with the seriel
port in the 4n1, and the last seriel port on my amiga, the ka9q proggy
here on the coco, and AMITCP on the amiga. I've darned near got it
working! If and when I do, I'll of course upload the bloody details.
In the meantime, if anyone else has attempted this, and run into this,
give me some hints please. In the meantime, just to waste some more
bandwidth, here is a msg I composed offline.
Welp, I've got enough of the ka9q network program running here on the coco
that I am at least getting responses on the Amiga when I "ping -s 127 coco"
from the amiga.
That wasn't without a pitfall or two, starting with Tony D.'s non-standard
header pinout for the 10 pinner used in the 4n1, and finishing with my
adding the required additional buffers to allow rts/cts flow controls.
But, what I'm asking the network/packet/ham folks now is, Is there a Ping for
the os9 TCP/IP program KA9Q so I can duplicate the testing from the coco
end?
If yes, where can I get a copy?

Later, I have a bit more of it working! I can start AmiTCP on the amiga,
and "net" here on the coco. I can attempt to start an ftp session from
the coco keyboard, but it appears that things are out of normal order.
First, its several minutes before the response to the ftp comes back
from the amiga. The response that does arrive eventually looks ok except
for a lack of shell prompt on the coco. Entering "dir" from the coco
keyboard causes it to go thru all the motions that you normally see from
the remote sites response, except that the data comes back in short 1/2
second bursts at about 30 second intervals according to the sniffer lites
on a rs232 tester riding the nul modem cable, and eventually it says
"Transfer Complete", but still no shell prompt nor do I see the dir
listing on the coco screen.
Does anybody have any idea what "net" is doing with the data from the
dir command that comes into the coco?

Cheers all, Gene


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93430 26-AUG 14:21 General Information
     Star NX 15 printer head
     From: NIMITZ       To: ALL

I've had problems with my Star NX15 printer recently - it fails to print on
pinsnear the middle of the array and at the bottom.  Alcohol soaks and oiling
did noot help.  any suggestions??

David

-*-

93449 27-AUG 15:47 General Information
     RE: Star NX 15 printer head (Re: Msg 93430)
     From: DBREEDING    To: NIMITZ

 > I've had problems with my Star NX15 printer recently - it fails to print
 > on pinsnear the middle of the array and at the bottom.  Alcohol soaks and
 > oiling did noot help.  any suggestions??

You may have trouble deeper down... I had an old Epson MX-80 once that
got to where one (maybe 2) pin(s) quit.  I tried a different printhead
and all, but it still did the same...


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93506 30-AUG 04:04 General Information
     RE: Star NX 15 printer head (Re: Msg 93430)
     From: BROWN80      To: NIMITZ

 > I've had problems with my Star NX15 printer recently - it fails to print on
 > pinsnear the middle of the array and at the bottom.  Alcohol soaks and oiling

 > did noot help.  any suggestions??
 >
 > David
 >
You will probably have to get a new print head for it.  I got one for a Star
NX-1000 from Dayton, the guys that made the Blue Streak interface.  Also, if
they don't have any, there is a printer repair company called Laser Impact in
Austin, TX that can either repair or replace the print head.  Either way it'll
cost about $50.  There is an 800 number for them but I don't know it.



            John Brown

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93444 27-AUG 13:10 General Information
     colin
     From: SMITHBA      To: ALL

All,
Does anyone know Colin McKay's new E-Mail address.  I sent
mail to cmckay@northx.isis.com and the delphi postmaster sent
it back as undeliverable.
Thanks in advance,
Brian Smith
DELPHI:SMITHBA     internet:smithba@delphi.com

-*-

93454 27-AUG 16:33 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444)
     From: MITHELEN     To: SMITHBA

Colin currently does not have email access... you can direct mail for Colin
though Ken Scales, and he will forward it to Colin (KSCALES here on Delphi)
--
Paul

-*-

93461 27-AUG 16:57 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444)
     From: DBREEDING    To: SMITHBA

 > Does anyone know Colin McKay's new E-Mail address.  I sent
 > mail to cmckay@northx.isis.com and the delphi postmaster sent
           Change this: ---   ^^^
 > it back as undeliverable.

It should be:

               cmckay@northx.isis.org
                                  ^^^

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93466 27-AUG 22:49 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93461)
     From: SMITHBA      To: DBREEDING


David,
Thanks for the info, but I just called colin (land line),
and he currently dosen't have a internet address.
the system (isis) that he accesed through was canceled.
Later
Brian Smith
DELPHI:SMITHBA    internet:smithba@delphi.com

-*-

93470 28-AUG 01:01 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444)
     From: KSCALES      To: SMITHBA

 > Does anyone know Colin McKay's new E-Mail address.  I sent
 > mail to cmckay@northx.isis.com and the delphi postmaster sent
 > it back as undeliverable.

Hi, Brian -

As Paul mentioned in his reply, mail for Colin McKay may be sent to me
("KSCALES"; "kscales@delphi.com").

Colin's original Internet Service Provider left the business, and the
company that took over their accounts dropped support for the protocols
Colin was using, so he has not renewed his contract.  He will be shopping
for a replacement email arrangement.  In the interim, please send any
messages for him to me, and I will make sure that he gets them.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

93492 29-AUG 19:56 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93466)
     From: DBREEDING    To: SMITHBA

 > Thanks for the info, but I just called colin (land line),
 > and he currently dosen't have a internet address.
 > the system (isis) that he accesed through was canceled.

Yes, I saw the message from someone to that effect... I did not realize
this...


                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93561 4-SEP 22:15  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93444)
     From: CLTUCKER     To: SMITHBA

Well good luck with any $ transaction that you have with Mr.C. I along
with many others here have been burned. When queried about no merchandise
forthcoming, I get a polite "HorseLaugh"(moan)
cl

-*-

93563 4-SEP 23:07  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93561)
     From: WA2EGP       To: CLTUCKER

Best bet is to contact the Canadian version of the Better Business Bureau.
If you need an address, drop me an email.  I'll get it from a friend who is
going that route.

-*-

93572 5-SEP 23:41  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93561)
     From: KSCALES      To: CLTUCKER

 > Well good luck with any $ transaction that you have with Mr.C. I along
 > with many others here have been burned. When queried about no merchandise
 > forthcoming, I get a polite "HorseLaugh"(moan)

Very nice character assassination in a public forum, where the individual
is not even present to provide any rebuttal.

You probably are on the waiting list for the (recently shipped) NitrOS9
package.  I know that Colin would be the first to express his unhappiness
with the delays in getting the new version out.  He and Alan encountered
many obstacles in completing this release (GIME and 6309 deaths, GIME bugs,
hardware component differences, ... the list goes on).  Those on the
Princeton CoCo List probably have seen some of the history in Alan's
postings.  Nevertheless, the delays occurred, and shipping was delayed
as a result.  But they stuck with it, and began shipping the new release
a couple of weeks ago.

Certainly, few in this community have donated as much of their time
(without re-imbursement) to CoCo and OS-9 users as Colin has, from
fixing system problems for users, to providing a conduit for
the location and exchange of hard-to-find hardware and software
components, to his ongoing activities as president of the OS-9 Users
Group.  (In this latter role, most of his efforts are not even
visible to the general membership, but he has been very active in
making contacts, as evidenced in his MOTD column "Straight from the
Horse's Mouth", which is probably the source of your snide remark above.)
Colin and I frequently disagree on lots of things, but frankly I think
that we would be hard-pressed to find a more dedicated and active
president for the UG.

Please, let's take this to private email for any further discussions.  I
will forward any messages to Colin to allow him to personally address any
concerns you may have.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Ken Scales   Delphi:KSCALES   Internet:kscales@delphi.com   CIS:74646,2237

-*-

93575 6-SEP 19:32  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93561)
     From: SMITHBA      To: CLTUCKER

If you are refering to NitrOS9, than I have started dealing
with alan DeKok. I sent him E-Mail last week, and recieved
my new version today. Just downloaded, but havn't tried it yet.
It should be V1.22F.
Brian Smith
DELPHI:SMITHBA   internet:smithba@delphi.com

-*-

93589 7-SEP 22:46  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93572)
     From: WDTV5        To: KSCALES

Ken, I'm not so sure we ought to privatize this, cause I feel like I should
be defending him too. Lets all take a deep breath and remember that for
even Colin, this is a labor more of love than any monetary gain over and
above the phone bills and postage used to do what has been done, AND that
at the same time, he has to keep a day job that feeds the wife and kids.
Thats why I've not done a lot lately too. With 2 machines to attempt to
keep up with, I'm afraid the coco doesn't get 100% of my attention,
probably more like 60% of the 20% of the available time compared to
the time I could devote to it a year ago.  For those that have sent him
a few bucks, I imagine you will get what you paid for when Colin is
happy with the code. 6 months down the road we'll either have it, if
you've got something coming, or if he can't deliver, your money back,
I think the question is, has he cashed your check? I got all uptight
with another over on another sig a year back, turned out he hadn't backed
up his drive, it crashed, and he had to re-write the darned thing from
scratch! But I was snotty, we agreed to disagree, and I stopped the
so far uncashed check after 90 days. I *think* Olaf Barthels "Term"
was the better proggy anyway.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93597 8-SEP 23:21  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93589)
     From: CLTUCKER     To: WDTV5

My complaint about not receiving any merchandise for the $$ was not
about Code. It was hardware that was advertised. Still waiting. Going
on 2 years. Hard pressed, overworked or whatever, there is still
such a thing as business ethics.
w

-*-

93601 9-SEP 01:45  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93597)
     From: WDTV5        To: CLTUCKER

If its hardware, I can see your point. I *was* being a bit testy I guess.
Sorry, Gene

-*-

93603 9-SEP 10:52  General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93601)
     From: CLTUCKER     To: WDTV5

No apology necessary. Your were just sticking up for a friend. People
need friends like you.
cl

-*-

93629 11-SEP 00:29 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93589)
     From: WA2EGP       To: WDTV5

The two people I know who have been waiting for months and the thing that is
getting them a little annoyed is that the stories are getting a little
inconsistant (in their opinion) and they feel they are getting the runaround.
I don't know if they ordered something already written or something still
being debugged but it would be nice to at least something else besides the
disks are being sent out each time one of them asks what gives.  It sounds
like the "check is in the mail" (grin).  I keep trying to say "Have patience."
but I think they feel it has gone on too long.  One of the individuals has
also been waiting months for manuals he has paid for from another vendor.
Too bad.  Could lead to people leaving for the PC world.

-*-

93640 11-SEP 23:59 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93629)
     From: WDTV5        To: WA2EGP (NR)

In light of the fact that one of them is squawking about undelivered Hardware,
not software, I do have a tendency to agree with the squawks. However, I don't
think he is dishonest yet. Just pinched with the everyday business of making
a living. You would be amazed at just how hard it can be to get back to
someone when you have moved, and can't find the information to carry on.
I've had that happen to me, and on my end it wasn't enjoyable cause I knew
I had people looking for me and muttering about what a fink that jerk is.
Things are much better the last 15 years, specially the last 10, got rid of
the cause.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93643 12-SEP 21:38 General Information
     RE: colin (Re: Msg 93640)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: WDTV5

  Having talked with Colin on Internet (he's since lost his feed),, and know
 ing one of our members who's been getting thh run around for about 10 months..
  I'd agree,, it doesn't seem to be so much a csae of "purposful dishonesty",
 but extreemly poor judgement.
  I too can get lax at times somet
 sometimes to the tune of a week or so,, but 10 months???
 for what it's worth,,, (or not)
  Terry Simons  UPGRADE Editor

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93445 27-AUG 13:53 General Information
     coco info
     From: SMITHBA      To: ALL

All,
Is ther info or a list of the available electronic sources
for coco and os9 info.  I know about comp.os.os9.
isnt there a coco list and somthing like bitnet.
if there isn't a list, would someone in the know
like to write one. also info on how to access bitnet,
fidonet, and a list of the coco or os9 ftp sites.
this info is probable availible, but it would be nice
have it all in one place.
Many thanks to whoever takes up this project.
Brian Smith

p.s.  I do mean accesing the above items through delphi, or
delphi's internet access

DELPHI:SMITHBA      internet:smithba@delphi.com

-*-

93455 27-AUG 16:35 General Information
     RE: coco info (Re: Msg 93445)
     From: MITHELEN     To: SMITHBA

Look at the OS-9 FAQ, I believe it is in the databases here.. (Probably General)

If not, let me know and I will upload it... I believe it has all the info you
seek.
--
Paul

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93447 27-AUG 15:20 Programmers Den
     cc3disk
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

Hi Paul; Ya got the questions flowing over here. So I just did a dis on my
own cc3disk, a no-halter setup for nitros9. No place in it can I find a
thing that would indicate a $FFF limit for the BAM of a floppy. A limitation
of that order would limit us to an arbitrary 1 megabyte limit. So, since
there are people out there using the older controllers with 1793/MB8877's
in them running 1.44+ meg drives/disks, it sure looks like its a limit
of the emulation rather than any real os9 limit. I'm not saying there
isn't, but if it is, we've got more detective work than we thought.
Cheers Paul, Gene

-*-

93452 27-AUG 16:30 Programmers Den
     RE: cc3disk (Re: Msg 93447)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WDTV5

I wonder if any of those pople with the hacked controllers have actually ever
exceded 1 meg on them 1.44 meg disks, without it trashing the BAM on them.
--
Paul

-*-

93479 28-AUG 20:56 Programmers Den
     RE: cc3disk (Re: Msg 93452)
     From: WDTV5        To: MITHELEN

How many sectors of BAM are we talking about? With a $FFF limit, thats a
meg, which doesn't make sense. I'll look some more, but so far, I can't seem
to see any code that would do the limit.
Cheers Paul, Gene

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93456 27-AUG 16:39 New Uploads
     Uploaded program: Lines.c
     From: KNOT1        To: ALL

Well my first MM/1 C program if significance is here.  I forgot that
they like to keep the description page short, so figured will post the
full one here where ya's only need to see it once, and can skip it
readily enough if want to. :-)

--------

Here's my first MM/1 C program (I've written others on the CoCo and
such).  I actually managed to do this with just a 1 meg system and a
single floppy drive, so shows you can do stuff even with the very
basic MM/1. :-)

What it is is a fairly simple screen saver, but one I rather like.
It started as a series of lines that bounced around, the old ones
vanishing after a bit.  Then I added colors and the option for using
boxes instead, or even having it switch back and forth.  This may
well have been done before, as I actually 'borrowed' the idea from
when I used to use a work station (well, the lines one, if not the
boxes).

It works very well with the upgraded modules, and the boxes mode
is pretty quick.  (If using the old/original drivers, as I had been
until recently, it can sometimes 'hang' after running a while..  I
believe that has to do with it mistaking LF's or CR's in the code
to draw the lines..)

I'm also including the source code with this, as it's a fairly
simple program but uses a variety of features, which might be handy
as examples for someone learning C, or if you just wanna play
around with it. :-)

Usage:  lines [{line|box}] [-n={num el}] [-p={pause}] [-s={switch count}]
Min/def/max:     /line/       1/10/30       0/0/180      0/0/10000

The 'line' or 'box' option is what type of elements it will draw (or
start with, if switching mode is on).  'n' is the number of lines
and/or boxes that will be on the screen at once.  'p' is the number
of ticks it will pause between each element drawn, if you wish to
slow it down, and 's' is the number of elements it will draw before
switching from lines to boxes or vise versa, and then start counting
over (0 means no switching).

I like to run mine as 'lines -s=500' usually.

It opens its own screen to run on (type 0, and assumes 640x208 with
16 colors) and sets its priority down to 5 on its own (yet another
'borrowed' idea from one I seen in the database here.. :-).

This is released as a 'Freeware' program.

Enjoy!

    - Jamie (KNOT1) -

-*-

93467 27-AUG 22:59 OSK Applications
     OS-9/68k memory test...
     From: MITHELEN     To: ALL

Does anyone know of a memory test program for OS-9/68k systems... I've
recently been experiancing some weird problems on my MM/1 and I think
it might be the simms may be going bad on me... I've tried reseating them
and the other socketed stuff on he PCB's but nothing seems to have helped...
--
Paul

-*-

93486 29-AUG 01:06 OSK Applications
     RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93467)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MITHELEN

I wish I knew of one but be careful.  I had a SIMM go and take out a trace
on the I/O board (internal of course).  Mark repared it for me (when he was
still with us).  Doesn't the machine check the memory in some superficial
way when it boots?

-*-

93489 29-AUG 10:08 OSK Applications
     RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93486)
     From: MITHELEN     To: WA2EGP

The only teststhat I know of are the CRC checking of loaded modules.
--
Paul

-*-

93500 29-AUG 20:26 OSK Applications
     RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93467)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: MITHELEN

   Paul,

> Does anyone know of a memory test program for OS-9/68k systems...

  I remember Mark wrote a small C program that would do it.  It was
in one of his mag's...  Also, you had to take the mm/1 back to a
one meg system to use this `test' program, but you could check both
4 meg sim's this way.

  John -


-*-

93512 30-AUG 23:52 OSK Applications
     RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93489)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MITHELEN

OK.  Well, I thought it might.  How I ever got that idea, I don't know.  Guess
I'm thinking of other computers I have that do that (non-PC ones).  Have to
look into this.

-*-

93520 31-AUG 19:13 OSK Applications
     RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93489)
     From: JOHNREED     To: MITHELEN

Paul,
 There are a couple of memory test programs that I got along with
the 8-meg board for the MM/1.  If I remember right, Mark G. wrote
them, and they require that the MM/1 jumpers be set to run as a
1-meg machine, but with the 4-meg simms plugged in - the program
then does a test on the 4-meg simms.  Sounds confusing, but thats
what I remember.  Anyway, if these programs would help you, let me
know.

JohnW

-*-

93521 31-AUG 19:31 OSK Applications
     RE: OS-9/68k memory test... (Re: Msg 93520)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JOHNREED

Ya John, that would be of help.
--
Paul

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93468 28-AUG 00:06 General Information
     OSlev I ver 2.0
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: RONMAGOO

  I just put your MI&CC Library of
 orpder together.  It'll go out tomorrow.  Including theh Mvue programs
 & utilities.
  But OS Lev I Ver 2.0  That I don't have,, I have several Lev II's
 of course, original.  Will problem give 'em at thh Atlanta Fest.  But
 Lev I ver anything is rare in my house.  Maybe someone here can help.
  .
    (~~~~~~~~~~~~)))
    (----   -----)))
         l  l l\\\\
         l  l l~~~~   il
         l  l l       hen
         l  l l       erry  g
         \\\\\\\
          ~~~~~~~
  *   Hooked on phonics works real well   *
  *  huked on foniks, a grate wae to spel *

-*-

93528 2-SEP 07:27  General Information
     RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93468)
     From: RONMAGOO     To: MRUPGRADE


Thanks for the effort Terry, I received my order just fine.

Like you say, maybe someone else here has a copy of OS-9

Level One Version 02.00, and will reply.

Thanks again,  -= RON =-

-*-

93535 3-SEP 14:18  General Information
     RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93528)
     From: 01GEN40      To: RONMAGOO

Hi Ron,
  I have OS-9 Level 1 Ver. 1 w/Ver.2.0 disks and addendum.  It
includes all the original manuals, in its original slip-sleave
box.  Talk to me!  See ya among the stars...

LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER> ** In whatever form it is in!
Peace and Long Life...
Siran of Vulcan (CMDR)
-= GEN =-

-*-

93554 4-SEP 16:48  General Information
     RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93535)
     From: RONMAGOO     To: 01GEN40


Gen, Johnbaer also responded. If I don't get what I need from
him, I will get back with you. Thanks for your response.

-= RON =-

-*-

93613 10-SEP 11:53 General Information
     RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93554)
     From: 01GEN40      To: RONMAGOO

Hi Ron,
  No problem Ron.  I am out here once a week to read all the
Forum messages.  Just don't ask me for WINDOZE 95! ;-)
  Thanks for the reply...  See ya among the stars...

LONG LIVE OS-9! <FOREVER> ** In whatever form it is in!
Peace and Long Life...
Siran of Vulcan (CMDR)
-= GEN =-

-*-

93628 10-SEP 23:48 General Information
     RE: OSlev I ver 2.0 (Re: Msg 93613)
     From: RONMAGOO     To: 01GEN40 (NR)


Just received E-Mail from JohBaer. He mailed what I needed Friday.

Thanks again for your interest. I Just got a set of 80 track drives

and will be getting more into OS-9. Am sure I'LL need more help from

this forum as I progress.          -= RON =-

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93471 28-AUG 07:11 General Information
     RE: Conference Update&Misc (Re: Msg 93290)
     From: DSRTFOX      To: THETAURUS

Thanks for the input (and plugs!) on "the world of 68' micros" (268'm).
The reason for going bi-monthly is to keep the magazine going uninterrupted
AND not late! I do hope to improve as time goes on. I would really like to
add some OSK programming articles... a regular column would be nice! That
would get some more OSK interest and possibly some more industrial
advertising and subscribers.


Francis (Frank) Swygert
Publisher, "the world of 68' micros" Magazine

`[1;37;41mRainbow V 1.11 for Delphi - Registered

-*-

93488 29-AUG 08:44 General Information
     OS-9 Late night
     From: MROWEN01     To: THETAURUS


Congradulations on the 1 year mark Chris! Sorry I could not be there to cel

YUCK! Celebrate in person.

I hope you had a good turn out. The IRC conference was a no show, but some
people
said they tried to get in but the Delphi Server may have been hung up. the only
person I spoke with was on Delphi, but he was not an OS-9 aware user. :) He was
just poking around for gif files of dragons. I'm looking forward to our Labor
Day
OS-9 Late night topic. I will be at this one! :)  I'm using a clunky emulator
at work right now, so I suspect this message will appear somewhat disorganized.

Sorry for the crumby message, but I can't break out! The emulator won't let me!

Again Congradulations and thanks for all of your hard work over the past year!

-Mike Rowen

-*-

93543 3-SEP 21:42  General Information
     RE: OS-9 Late night (Re: Msg 93488)
     From: THETAURUS    To: MROWEN01

         >>Congratulations on the  1 year mark Chris!<<

         Thanks Mike! Things are still going on quite well. I just hope
       this keeps up. I've been very behind as of late and not on the
       computer as much, which is why this message is so late. I've only
       been going online, getting messages and letting them accumulate.
       That explains this wad of messages I have to read and reply to
       now<G>. Hope to see you tomorrow night. Well, since you WILL be
       hosting it...;-)

         >Chris<

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93501 29-AUG 23:05 Telecom (6809)
     BAM problems?
     From: JMURPHY      To: MITHELEN

Well, even if the Bit Allocation Map
is limited to 12 bits, thats still a healthy
number of sectors:

12 bits = 4096.
4096 maximum BYTES in the map,
4096 * 8 = 32768 bits = 32768 sectors
32768 * 256 bytes per sector = 8,388,608 bytes.

Hmm, it looks like problems should be apparent
at the 8 Meg size.

I haven't filled my VDISK that full, and
I don't think I will, after doing these calculations.

John Murphy

-*-

93502 30-AUG 00:07 Telecom (6809)
     RE: BAM problems? (Re: Msg 93501)
     From: MITHELEN     To: JMURPHY

Hmm... Ok.. Well.. I hope to get OS-9 going on the emulator again soon,
and I'll try it with the latest version of the emulator (perhaps I never
tried it with the upgrade before) And then I'll report back here with my
results...
-0-
Paul



-*-

93515 31-AUG 00:00 Telecom (6809)
     RE: BAM problems? (Re: Msg 93501)
     From: WDTV5        To: JMURPHY

Your math is correct! Humm, so I wonder at the supposed 1 meg liimitation
we've been discussing. I haven't had a chance to check, but I wonder
it its not BAM probs, but 1 byte track number problems, as thats all
the wider the track register is in a #$%&*)(" 1773! If the emu is really
precisely done, that would have to be it. Somebody do the math plz.
Cheers, gene

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93507 30-AUG 07:04 General Information
     New MOTD
     From: JEJONES      To: ALL

Just got the latest MOTD in the mail.  Excellent work, IMHO.


Opinions herein are solely those of their respective authors.

-*-

93530 2-SEP 16:29  General Information
     RE: New MOTD (Re: Msg 93507)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: JEJONES

> Just got the latest MOTD in the mail.  Excellent work, IMHO.

  I just got it today (9/2) and did a flip through. Layout/format
look great. Now to make time to read it.

  John


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93509 30-AUG 23:14 General Information
     4 Meg Simms
     From: ADITNAVEL    To: ALL

I've been thinking about upgrading my MM/1 to 8 Meg, and I was hoping someone
could tell me somethiong about the 4 Meg Simms. What is the difference
between the 4M x9 (9 chip) and the 4M x9 (3chip)? It would appear on the
surface there is no difference, both being 4x9, but obviously there must
be since both are produced. Can anybody enlighten me on this? I'd appreciate
any info you can provide.

                             Thanks!


-*-

93518 31-AUG 12:51 General Information
     RE: 4 Meg Simms (Re: Msg 93509)
     From: MITHELEN     To: ADITNAVEL

I don't have an absolute answere for you, but, I am using the 9 chip variety
(actually, they may be 8 chip, ie 4m x 8 simms) I would imagine the 3
chip ones draw a fair amount less power. Someone else more in the know will
hopefully be able to give a better answer.
--
Paul

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93516 31-AUG 00:04 General Information
     68070
     From: ADITNAVEL    To: ALL


I was wondering if anyone out there had the Philips manuals (user/app, etc
for the scc68070 and scc66470. If so, could you please let me know what
the order no. etc is for them (should be on the cover), because  tried
to order them from philips, but they said they couldn't find them.
Heck, the SCC66470 isn't even listed in their concise guide!


                                     Thanks!


-*-

93536 3-SEP 15:07  General Information
     RE: 68070 (Re: Msg 93516)
     From: LARRYOLSON   To: ADITNAVEL

 > I was wondering if anyone out there had the Philips manuals (user/app,
 > etc for the scc68070 and scc66470. If so, could you please let me know
 > what the order no. etc is for them (should be on the cover), because
 > tried to order them from philips, but they said they couldn't find them.
 > Heck, the SCC66470 isn't even listed in their concise guide!
 >
 > Thanks!
 >

   What I have here is:

       User Manual 1991 Part 1 - Hardware
           16/32 - Bit Highly Integrated Microprocessor SCC68070
   on the back cover is a number that could be what you are looking for:
           9398 651 50011

       User Manual 1990 Part 2 - Software
           16/32 - Bit Highly Integrated Microprocessor SCC68070
   back cover number:
           9398 650 40011

       Video and System Controller SCC66470
   back cover number:
           9398 368 50011

   The above book is a bound copy, I also have what I guess you would call
   bound data sheets with the following number on it:  9397 242 30142


       I^C Peripherals for Microcontrollers   (thats I squared)
   back cover number:
           2004MQ/35M/FP/0192  400pp

       Master Product Catalog      Q4 1991 - Q1 1992
           1031X/22M/CR5/1091


   I hope this helps,
   Larry


-*-

93549 4-SEP 00:09  General Information
     RE: 68070 (Re: Msg 93536)
     From: ADITNAVEL    To: LARRYOLSON

Thanks for info!

Hopefully Phillips can find their own products now ! <g>

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93525 31-AUG 23:12 Programmers Den
     RE: _gs_rdy() Question (Re: Msg 90824)
     From: BILLHOOD     To: NIMITZ



-*-

93526 1-SEP 21:51  OSK Applications
     KA9Q
     From: MRGOOD       To: ALL

WHat does KA9Q do and what can it do for me?

Hugo

-*-

93532 2-SEP 22:42  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93526)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MRGOOD

Well, he wrote a TCP/IP for the PC (I've seen it work).  Real neat seeing
two machines effectively sharing their drives.

-*-

93539 3-SEP 17:43  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93526)
     From: VAXELF       To: MRGOOD

  Hugo,
   KA9Q is a amateur radio TCP/IP networking program. It allows you along
with a TNC set to KISS mode, to network via radio with other amateurs running
TCP/IP. You will need to get a 44.XX.XX.XX IP address from your local
coridnator (sp). You can network on HF,VHF,UHF, & higher ham bands.
  It can also be used with a Eithernet card to network with another computer.
I once setup two computers, both running KA9Q. One was also hooked to a TNC
and a VHF radio. It also had a eithernet card that was connected to the second
computer running KA9Q. I was able to use computer #1 as a router and use
computer #2 to access the TNC.
  Also computer #1 has access to the hard drives on computer #2 and vesaversa.
So it can be used as a local LAN too.
  Unless you have OS/2 or a OS9/OSK system, you will find the MSDOS version
takes all the computer time. That is, you can not run anything esle but KA9Q.
With OS/2, OS9/OSK, or possible Windows95, you can run KA9Q in one window
while using another window to do something else. There is now a version for
OS/2 called PMNOS V1.3.

  Hope this helps

John A. Donaldson

-*-

93546 3-SEP 21:50  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93539)
     From: MRGOOD       To: VAXELF

Ah, so it's really for packet radio.  I though perhaps it was something
that could be used for Internet access.

Hugo

-*-

93551 4-SEP 15:03  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546)
     From: VAXELF       To: MRGOOD

  It can be used also to network two or more MM/1's or other OSK systems
together. In this case, assign bogus IP address to each system. Then you
can telnet (logon) to any of the systems or FTP (file xfer) to any of the
systems. This can be done via serial ports. It's a poorman's TCP/IP LAN
so to speak.

John D.

-*-

93555 4-SEP 17:06  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546)
     From: JIMDIXON     To: MRGOOD

Hugo:

     The IBM PC version of KA9Q also supports the packet driver series of
ethernet card drivers, and has builtin ppp support.  I would suspect that
the OSK version could be interfaced with ppp as well, though it may not
support it "out of the box".  I think the CoCo version (which I haven't had
time to look at) is a slip only version.

                                                             James Dixon

-*-

93562 4-SEP 22:59  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546)
     From: WA2EGP       To: MRGOOD

Bob Billson and I saw it demonstrated at the Trenton Computer Fest several
years ago when they were just hooking up machines through the RS-232 ports
and sharing files, essentially both machines accessing each other's drives.
I guess we saw it in the early days since I have the MS-Dog version on
5.25 floppies!  BTW, KA9Q is the call letters of the person who wrote it
(did major work on it). It is still a "version" of TCP/IP.  It's getting like
the name Frankenstein being associated with the monster rather than the
creator of the monster.  Bad example I know but the only one I could think
of at the moment (grin).  If you are interested, I still have the disks
for the early (maybe non-packet) version and hopefully the bits haven't fallen
off yet.

-*-

93568 5-SEP 18:01  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93562)
     From: MRGOOD       To: WA2EGP

Thanks Bob.  I'll pass on the offer.  I thought it was something I could
use on CIS's PPP access.

Hugo

-*-

93581 7-SEP 22:17  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93546)
     From: WDTV5        To: MRGOOD

Well, maybe.... At the moment, I have managed to get AmiTCP's "ping" to
work over a null modem cable to the coco. FTP either way so far eludes
me, but it appears to work until attempts to get past the othere machines
password, and is then rejected. I hope to get it figured out eventually.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93583 7-SEP 22:21  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93551)
     From: WDTV5        To: VAXELF

Now if I could just get the coco-ka9q thing to work between here and the
Amy. Password problems as near as I can tell. Ping works, but I gotta tell
ya, a 512 byte ping will have a round trip time of over a second on a null
cable.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93585 7-SEP 22:26  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93555)
     From: WDTV5        To: JIMDIXON

You are correct Jim. That may be one of the probs I'm having with it, the
coco version of slip may not be totally compat with "rhslip.device" on the
Amiga. But I'm still working on that.  I'll take any hints anybody can
throw out. One thing I've found is that the Amy stuffs just won't fly at
all if I slow the baud rate below 9600. With no flow controls on the
port I'm using on the coco, the seriel in the 4n1 with no patches done.
So rts/cts flow control is not usable until I get that hardware installed.
Lack of space in the 4n1 is the biggest hurdle.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93586 7-SEP 22:31  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93562)
     From: WDTV5        To: MRGOOD

Or, if things get really desperate, I could drag it off the earlier CDROM's
I have that actually included the source! On the Amiga, the AmiTCP/IP
is I think, a write fresh from the RFC's, but its now called AmigaNOS in
its later incarnations. No source for that tho.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93605 9-SEP 16:34  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93583)
     From: VAXELF       To: WDTV5

  You should see a ping over 2M VHF radio. I am using the OSk version and
Kennth WB5ORA lives 3 miles away. It takes on average 11500 ms on a ping.
He is running a FTP session as I type this message.
  BTW, we just setup at work a old 8086 7MHZ system as a router. We are
using the MSDOS version of KA9Q as the router. (JNOS). Works great. Pings
are from 0ms to 2ms depending on the router load.

John D.

-*-

93606 9-SEP 16:37  OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93581)
     From: VAXELF       To: WDTV5

  Gene,
    Did you setup the "ftruser" file on the coco and Amiga ?? If so did you
set the access code 1 -read only 2-write only 3-read/write 7-superuser.

John D.

-*-

93608 10-SEP 02:26 OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93605)
     From: WDTV5        To: VAXELF

I take it part of that is the tr relay turnaround time? No, on 2M, you
should be running full duplex if you have good diplexers. 3 miles isn't
that many light years away. What box are you running on the 2M rig. I'm
not at all fam with the KISS stuffs, think I saw it run once at a friends
place up in Shinston WV 3-4 years ago. Some kind of a packet TNC he called
that one.
Gee, 11.5 seconds to ping really sounds like there is a major chunk of
molasses in the gears. Course I know that since you have to wait for
clear air at times, thats part of it.
The 2 ms is much more like it.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93609 10-SEP 02:32 OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93606)
     From: WDTV5        To: VAXELF

Humm, yeah, they're both set for 7, both ends. Haven't looked at it any
more tonight, been playing with a new dialer for the amy, 20x faster than
calling term thru a rexx script to do it, but I still haven't made it
bring the PPP'S together on both ends yet. So I thinks theres an error
and then hangs the modem up, I=it above.
If I get that going, I may drop this account, can't afford both. But then
again, maybe not. Prob is that me & the missus signed up a new house
contract a year back that trades a 30 year payoff for 6 years. So between
now and then we aren't vacationing in the Bahamas!
Cheers John, Gene

-*-

93619 10-SEP 17:25 OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93608)
     From: VAXELF       To: WDTV5

  first there is TX startup delay. That is letting the xmiter getup to
speed before you transmit. that is on both ends, plus the clear air delay,
and ect. Remember when doing a ping over the air, you have delays on both
sides. All of these add up. my guess is the startup delay is in the order of
100 ms alone.
  TCP/IP over radio at 1200 baud is slow. If I could goto 9600 baud, I would
then see ping times around 1 sec. there are networks now ruuning at 56Kbaud
at 1.2GHNZ and 10GHZ. On these you can not really see any difference.
  One yes one other delay is that ALL TCP/IP and packet connects are
HALF-DUPLEX, since communictions are on a simplex freq. Up on 1.2 and 10 GHZ
you can run duplex real easy.

John D.

-*-

93627 10-SEP 22:32 OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93619)
     From: GREGL        To: VAXELF

Typical values of TX delay seem to be in the neighborhood of 100 to 150
milliseconds. I think I've run my Yaesu FT-2400 down to 60 milliseconds
without problem. It's been almost a year since I've been on packet, though.
Around here the frequencies are too crowded with maildrops between FBB
systems. It wouldn't be so bad but most of 'em are to 4SALE@ALLUS or
something at ALLUS having nothing to do with anything.

Haven't decided to sell the TNC yet, but don't have much desire to work VHF
packet these days.

        -- Greg

-*-

93635 11-SEP 21:35 OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93627)
     From: VAXELF       To: GREGL

  Humm, shame it's not a multi-mode. I like to run pactor,amtor, & rtty on
20M's. You can always use the tnc on HF packet. If you do let me know and
mabey we can setup a sked on 20M's.

John D.
WB5DGQ

-*-

93638 11-SEP 23:52 OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93619)
     From: WDTV5        To: VAXELF (NR)

As they say in Singapore, "Ah soo" I had forgotten that the majority of it
went at 1200/2400 baud, depending on the repeaters audio bandwidth. I used
to have an old cow barn radio, a High Gain 723 I had made into a 740 (shh,
thats supposed to be a secret) whose ONLY selectivity was a crystal filter
that had to work on both ancient mary and ssb, so it was a bit over 4khz
wide. Two of them things talking to each other weren't voice quality, they
was the genuine HI-FI! I had a bunch of work in that radio, dead stable
frequencies for one, and moving a jumper on the motherboard ran the output
from 10 w ssb, to around 60! It made more clean power day after day than
any ft101 or K-1200 ever thought of. Being long winded got the 12JT6 output
tube a bit red tho. Gee, those werre the days (13+ years ago)
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93646 13-SEP 19:22 OSK Applications
     RE: KA9Q (Re: Msg 93635)
     From: GREGL        To: VAXELF (NR)

I thought about trying HF packet at one time, but I haven't gotten very
enthusiastic about working digital modes on HF. Nothing wrong with it, of
course, just not my cup of tea right now. I haven't gotten into working
satellites either. Something about waiting for a "bird" to come overhead,
and being in position ready to go doesn't appeal to me right now. About all
I do these days is voice on VHF and CW on HF.

        -- Greg

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93529 2-SEP 10:50  General Information
     CoCo Marketing
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: ALL

  The following is a reprint from "The UPGRADE" (#12 03/92) disk
magazine, by permission of the author and editor.  With the same
permission it was reprinted in UPTIMES magazine.   Though
opinion, I'd say educated opinion.  Insofar as I've delt in
Commerical CoCo software, TDP products, and headed one of the
largest Coco groups in the nation.
  A long post 118 lines.

       The COCO Market place,                (c) 03/92
              What, happened?  How?     by Terry Simons
  The main problem to our misunderstanding of Tandy's marketing
of the CoCo is simple.  We look from a different view point to a
different goal.  That is, Tandy wanted a Computer product that
would:
  A. make money in the face of competing C-64's, TI's, etc
  B. be an inexpensive introduction to buyer.  So you could
throw it away and buy a more expensive, big brother.
  Tandy accomplished "THEIR OWN" goals quite successfully.  From
the days of the gun metal grey, they made big dollars.  And the
truth is at least 70% of 'em hit the buyers closet in the first
three months of ownership.  I'd heard the same thing about
$2,000 Apples in th 80's.
  WE conversly; took "A & B" and saved money; while getting the
best of the lot for our purposes and adding "C"
  C. developed it beyond their wildest expectations.
   Using the sleeping power of the 6809 processor, Motoroloa
wanted to get rid.  What we often forget is "C" was never part
of the RS scheme, nor did they really even care.  Left up to
Tandy we'd still be using Scriptsit, and Spectaculator.  We the
tinkerers, are the ones who developed the CoCo power!
                The Marketing
  Whether we agree with it or not, Radio Shack has a franchise
system.  Any such system must involve and maintian standards.
You just can't let everyone compete with your franchisors,,, or
who'd buy in or work for it?   This means product control is
primary.  Keep support and repair within the system.  This
mainly worked against TANDY computers in a number of areas.  And
in other ways for them.  The APPLE and MS DOS opened doors for
the world to write software for their machines.  It's no irony
that the the machines who open thier doors to the world,,, were
chosen by the world.  The APPLE despite it's combursome
processor, stomped though and still stands tall in the
educational systems.  And we all know how the IBM faired.
  But Radio Shack was saying, STAR DOS is the only DOS.  And if
we don't write it the program doesn't exist.  Just as Radio
Shack salespeople (early 80's) were strictly forbidden to talk
of third party software or support on any of their computers.
For years any outside modification to a Radio Shack computer
would be removed before any service would be preformed.
  I called it the "Head in the sand policy".  It sounds much
nicer then "Head up your,,,, well... you know".  A little time
proved other brands were beating the britches off Model III & IV
computers sales until they opened their doors to third party in
about 1988 or 89.
  Well, actually it was more like they began to peek one eye out
of the sand,, or whatever.  From the CoCo standpoint,,, they did
a "toung in cheek" recognition of third party.
  They did recognize there was a RAINBOW magazine and could
discuss the existance of third party without the fear of being
fired.  With a sprinkling of third party demos in the stores,,
and you could express order some software,,
 i.e. 5 or 6 line discription in a catalogue.
  With the COCO this did work for Radio Shack.  As a dealer and
a guy who knew a large variety of users; I can tell you; Radio
Shack outsold third party software 10 to 1.  Despite the
superior quality of third party.  Now,,, are we gonna call them
the dummies?

  If you think Radio Shack is alone in this practice, you're in for
   a big surprise.  Try making lawn furniture and selling it to
a local "Earle May store".   Make a nice toy and approach a
local Toys 'N Us store.  You'll be told quite promptly; we only
take orders through the main office in...  One orante furniture
shop in our mall, has only items from India and, Tialand.
Prices; including every sale price; are set only by the head
office in another state.  It really gives meaning to "buy
local".  Just a few years back, Sears appliance parts lists,
were not available to independant repairmen.  Product and price
control are a part of what gives a corperations clout and makes
a franchise work.
  Buying a Radio Shack VCR opened a new awareness for me.  If I
buy it at Radio Shack, I'd better figure on paying whatever they
want to fix it.  As I was told by an independant repairman,
"thier parts are so expensive to me, it's simpler to replace the
VCR".
   Tandy might say they did make an attempt in '84 to offer the
CoCo outside the RS system under that name TDP.  A wholesaler
here in Des Moines layed in a stock of the TDP computers with
accessories.  After which RS dropped the base price another
hundred dollars!  Thus jerking the rug from under this
independant distributor (of their products) feet.  It only
happens once.  TDP lingered for a year or so; never seeing real
independant distributor support.
   It's no doubt a very accurate guess to say; The CoCo would
have stomped through the computer world, folding under the
Commadore, Atari, and any others.  IF it been marketed in all
stores like the C-64.  With a realistic incentive of buyers in
the local marketplace; Developers would have taken both the CoCo
2 and 3 software far beyond the mail order tinkerers.  The
problem with all this is,,, we have left reality in thinking.
What makes the Radio Shack and other franchise systems work is;
thier products are not sold up and down the street from that
store.

   From the beginning the CoCo sold; from an electronics store;
naturally to the type person who was more technical minded.  The
searcher, that tinkerer.  The exceptions; and I knew many who
bought CoCo 1,2's; finding a lack of convience (real support)
promptly returned them and bought Atari of C-64's.
   During and in the end, the CoCo was bought by us; The seekers
and the thinkers.   We love to seek and get excited when we
find.  We are not the majoriety.  We will spend the time to
experiment and learning, for thrill of discovery.
   Put it all together and you'll find: The CoCo was marketed
not for everyone.
     "It was marketed,,, just for us"!
      Third party,,, a story in itself.

  Part II "Third party", was continued in the Next issue.  If
you want I'll post is as well.
  Note: The UPGRADE survives quite well with paid subscribers
through out the US & Canada, and a few other countries.  Leave
EMAIL for rates, etc.
                         Terry Simons  UPGRADE Editor

-*-

93533 3-SEP 01:41  General Information
     RE: CoCo Marketing (Re: Msg 93529)
     From: BROWN80      To: MRUPGRADE

That is a very good and concise explanation of what caused the downfall of the
CoCo.  It is also a good explanation of how the Tandy's of the world helped
Sam Walton and others like him build retail empires.


            John Brown

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93537 3-SEP 15:07  Users Group
     RE: OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook (Re: Msg 92974)
     From: LARRYOLSON   To: THETAURUS

   I hope this isn't too late.....


 OS-9 Sourcebook Information Form
--------------------------------
  Name:  Larry E. Olson
       ---------------------------------------------------------------
  Business: Machine Repairman - GMT&B
           -----------------------------------------------------------
  Address: 6670 Manson Dr.
          ------------------------------------------------------------
  City: Waterford       State: Michigan       ZIP:  48329
       ----------------       ---------------     --------------------
  Country: U. S. A.       Telephone:( 810 ) 623 - 7863
          ----------------           ---------------------------------
  EMail Address:CIS - 72227,3467     Delphi - LARRYOLSON
                 -----------------------------------------------------

  Signature:                                      Date:  03 / 09 / 95
            ------------------------------------         DD   MM   YY

Would you like information on
joining the OS-9 Users Group?         X Already a Member!  o Yes  o No

Can this information be passed to OS-9 vendors?            X Yes  o No

Are you available to act as a volunteer for OS-9           X Yes  o No
projects from time to time?  This isn't a commitment.

Please indicate your area(s) of interest:

   X OS-9/6809      X OS-9/68000      o OS-9000

   X Programming    X Hardware          Other ________________________

You use OS-9 primarily for what purpose:

   X personal use   o industrial system     o both

Please describe briefly your OS-9 computer system(s):

   1 CoCo1, 3 CoCo3's, one in a pc box, one in a model 4 portable box
   one stock CoCoo3. 1 MM/1 which I currently use about 99% of the time.

Please describe briefly your computer and OS-9 experience:

    I started out programming on a SWTPC 6800, moved to the CoCo1 because it
   had a 6809 processor in it. Did mainly assembly & Basic stuff. When i got
   a CoCo3 I got hooked on OS9, still just assembly & Basic09 programming.
   When I got the MM/1 I decided to get into 'C'. This is mainly what I use
   now even though I'm still not totally comfortable with the "C" language.

Please describe your OS-9 interests (things you would like to see the
UG do, or see in the MOTD), or list any other questions or comments:

       I would like to see some team projects. I think alot more programs
   would be out there if this was used. Nowadays, you can't expect the lone
   programmer to bring out killer applications all by thier self. The killer
   programs now need great graphics & sound along with good algorithm's. In
   my case my weak points are graphics & sound, where someone else might be
   great with graphics but weak at programming, or someone else might find
   sound programming a snap, but needs help with graphics. This team approach
   would also help the problem that pretty much all of us hold full time jobs
   and can only put so many hours a week in programming. Somewhere along the
   way we seem to have lost the kids(under 18), who were always pushing the
   envelope.


-*-

93622 10-SEP 20:57 Users Group
     RE: OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook (Re: Msg 93537)
     From: THETAURUS    To: LARRYOLSON

         >>I hope this isn't too late...<<

         Nope, you can never be too late, since sourcebook forms will
       always be welcome, including updates and additions. I do ask one
       thing though for others who are about to send theirs in. I prefer
       to get them in email as it is a little easier to work with them
       and organize. I am also less likely  to lose it that way. Thanks
       for getting it back to me!

         Now about your comments at the end...

         >>I would like to see soeme team projects. I think a lot more
       programs would be out there if this was used. Nowadays, you can't
       expect the lone programmer to bring out killer applications all by
       .......<<<

         I won't include the rest, but I agree and also have been wanting
       to see something of this nature. I would also like to take part in
       such a thing sometime in the future but am unavailable for such a
       project right now. This is a excellent way to 1) get more programs
       written and 2) to help teach programming to others through a team
       cooridinated ongoing project. An American version of the TOPS and
       EFFO packages could be killer.

         Chris Perrault
         OS-9 Users' Group
         Sourcebook Coordinator

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93540 3-SEP 20:25  System Modules (6809)
     myram8 info
     From: DOMM         To: WDTV5

Gene---

I think your the guy I have to talk to about this one. <G>

I seem to be having a problem trying to get my ram disk setup
with your driver "ram8.dr". Maybe you could point me in the right
direction.

I was using the "/R0" amd "Rammer" from the "Start OS-9" disk.
When  I try to load sound files to the ramdisk, it crashes.
(Free /r0) gives plenty of space. empty=177K+)

After reading your description, I decided to install your driver and
see what happens. I can't Iniz and format /r0. I disasm'd /r0 and I see
that the "drvnam" for /r0 is "RAMMER", as it should be since I was
using "RAMMER" before. Your driver is named "RAM". So far, by using
kwikzap to change bytes, I haven't been able to change either the /r0
"drvnam" to "RAM", or change the "RAM" mod name to "RAMMER".

Whats the best way to harmonize these things?
Xmode gives the drvnam option for /t2 type things but dmode doesn't
seem to for /d0,/r0, etc..


Any thoughts will be appreciated.


---Dom


-*-

93580 7-SEP 22:11  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93540)
     From: WDTV5        To: DOMM

Welp, first, the download should have had the descriptor to fit it in
the archive.
Second, once up and installed, its totally self initializing! All you have
to do is open the first path to it, or even do a "dir" or "free".
Use the whole package, and forget about formatting it, it won't. Period.
As the docs say, the only variable in the descriptor that it actually
uses
is the "sct", oops, take that back, it also uses the "sas" value for
when it allocates additional space for a file. I have 2 megs here, so
my "sct=1000" gives me a ramdisk of a megabyte. Repeat, no other values
in the descriptor are actually used.  You can "deinit" it to remove it
from memory as far as the memory it uses being allocated by os9.
I haven't used the iniz command other than for a window once in a while
in my startup so I can't tell you if that works or not. Lemme try it.
Yes, that works, but why? It takes only a few milliseconds for it to
initialise itself anytime an access as attempted and it hasn't been
initialised.
I'd guess maybe 300 milliseconds on this machine to "iniz" it to a
1 megabyte size. I'm native mode here too, so that helps, but if you
got the .8 version, it should work for both systems in fact, just a few
bytes cleaner for the .3 version and marginally quicker, very marginally.
The access is only slightly faster than my hard drive in actual fact,
mainly due to os9's having to pump the data from either across boundaries
in the process map when it accesses either device. Megaread on this
130 meg Maxtor is 13 seconds, 11 seconds from the ramdisk.  But it sure
make the compiles run smoother!
Cheers Domm, Gene

-*-

93592 8-SEP 00:37  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93580)
     From: DOMM         To: WDTV5

Gene---

I've tried "dir /r0, "free /r0", "iniz /r0", format /r0"...nothing works...
.just keep getting ERROR 221 (module not found).

Again, the only thing I can see is that the "drvnam" is wrong on my
"/r0". A "disasm" of my descriptor "/r0" shows the drvman= "RAMMER".
(Can't seem to change this to RAM and have it work, I'll try again tho..)

If I put back the "RAMMER" driver, everything works.

> ...the download should have had the descriptor to fit...
> ...Use the whole package,...

As far as I can see, neither archive "Myram" or Myram8 has a "/r0"
descriptor within it.


Any thoughts?


---Dom


-*-

93593 8-SEP 18:12  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93580)
     From: DOMM         To: WDTV5

Gene---

Well... I've done a little more screwing around with the "/r0" descriptor
and have been able to rename the "drvnam" to "Ram". There's a couple extra
fcbs listed in the "disasm" but I got it loaded and it boots Ok.

Seems to work alright so far (I haven't tried transfering sound files yet)
except when I try to do a "dir /r0".  This gives me a "253 - file busy" error.

I can copy a text file to /r0 and copy it from /r0 to disk. Just can't seem
to get a "dir".

(When you don't know what you're doing, its kinda like doing the backstroke
 from the street to the garage. I get there but my arms hurt!) <G>

Any thoughts?

---Dom

-*-

93594 8-SEP 18:18  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93592)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: DOMM

Dom,

 In this situation, OS9 determines the end of a string (Ram, Rammer) by the
last cvharacter having the high bit set. So, to change the RAMMER to RAM,
all you have to do is set the high bit on the first "M". The other three
chars of rammer can stay put unmolested. Here's some instructions on how
to do it with dEd directly on your boot file (preferably a backup :)

 ded os9boot
 l               (link to a module command)
 r0              (module name in memory will be r0, not /r0)
 e               (enter edit mode)
 <Break>         (change from binary to ascii mode)
     (put cursor on first M of rammer)
 <alt><shift>M     (alt key sets high bit... on the cap M)
 <enter>         (exit edit mode)
 w               (write it to disk)
 y               (yes, really write it to disk)
 v               (verify, it will take a while, it will verify the whole boot)
 q               (quit)
 <reboot>


    Randy


-*-

93596 8-SEP 21:54  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93594)
     From: DOMM         To: RANDYKWILSON

Randy---

Thanks for the info!

Just downloaded dED with both sets of patches so I haven't had time to
try anything let alone make the patches. I use Kwikzap for any byte
changes but will check out dEd. (I like using kwikzap/kwikgen for this.)

Yes, <G> I do remember about setting the high bit and finally did set
it correctly...just kept getting everthing else out of wack. I couldn't
get it to verify at first. I have since tried setting only the first "m"
as you suggested and get three extra fcbs ("mer"). The resulting /r0
reacts the same as the one I first set tho..must be learning something. <G>

I'll try the change with dED when I get it up and running but I think
that I'll have the same problem I have now. I still get a 253-file busy
error when I try a "dir /r0". ???

Anyway, why does the other "/r0-Rammer" crash when I try to copy a sound
file to it? (seems to be plenty of space!)

It would be nice to know for future referance. <G>


Any thoughts?


---Dom

-*-

93599 9-SEP 01:38  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93592)
     From: WDTV5        To: DOMM

Welp, at the moment, the coco is booting so I can check the archive I uploaded.
Back in 2 mins.

-*-

93600 9-SEP 01:44  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93593)
     From: WDTV5        To: DOMM

Its booted, now to check, that was "myram68.lzh" on my drive, and you are
unfortchunatly correct, theres no descriptor! So here is a replay of mine in
the next
msg., Sorry. It shouldn't make an difference tho, if you changed the name, as
long
as the names first character is in the same offset location in the descriptor.
Back in a few, with in this case, a uuencoded descriptor you can capture
]right here.
Gene

-*-

93602 9-SEP 01:56  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93593)
     From: WDTV5        To: DOMM

Hi again, Domm, here is a uuencoded descriptor for myram. I used the later
version of uue to do it, so use uud to undo it. Then put it in the bootfile
adjacent to RAM. This one is set for "sct=1000", a 1.04 something megabyte
drive. If you only have 512k, then use the latest xmode as follows before
putting it into the bootfile. Make sure the uud output is in the dir you
are in, the "xmode -r0.dd sct=400" which will make it a 256k size, half
of the 512k you prolly have.
Anybody else that had that same problem, grab this too.
table
 !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?
@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_
begin 644 r0.dd
LA\T +  A\8'( ", )K\    / 0        $ $      $4K!20L920<U.)'[Lz
 y
end
Now, uud should be able to grab this right out of the text download. If you
"cut" it out, cut above "table" and below "end".
That latest xmode is, if you don't have it, in the "Sacia.something" archive
in the telecom directory here. Its the only one I kow that can not only
modify in memory modules, but can do a disk file via the "-" option. Neat.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93604 9-SEP 13:44  System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93602)
     From: DOMM         To: WDTV5

Gene--

Thanks for the uuencoded "/r0" descriptor!

That was the missing link from what I can see. I did a "disasm" of your
"/r0" and see that many areas are zeroed out for your "RAM" use.

I changed the "Rammer /r0" with yours and all is well! <G>
(Can even load sound files allright!)

One thing though..

> ...xmode -r0.dd sct=400...

Can't do this! The "/r0" is a RFB device..must use "dmode".
Using xmode (which is what I tried using at first because it has a
"ddr" -device driver name option), gives the error "not a SCF device".
Dmode doesn't have a "ddr" option however.

Anyhow..the uuencoded "/r0" you sent works fine and I never before
"uudecoded" anything before, so I've gained knowledge on a few fronts.

What I will do now, just to test myself, is to take my "/r0" descriptor
and try to change that to match yours.

Thanks again for all your help!


---Dom

-*-

93607 10-SEP 02:20 System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93604)
     From: WDTV5        To: DOMM

xmode? I said that? It must have been REAL late! Sorry. DMode it is.
Cheers Domm, Gene

-*-

93615 10-SEP 14:06 System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93607)
     From: DOMM         To: WDTV5

Hey Gen ne!---

*NICE JOB!*

Seems to work flawless so far! <G>

Thanks!

---Dom

-*-

93618 10-SEP 17:24 System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93602)
     From: REVKAK       To: WDTV5

Hi Gene,  I have been trying to decode your message containing "r0".
I am using uud by BOISY. What I input and what I get is as follows:

uud -d -t=/dd /r0/r0.file              r0.file is a capture of your message
Target dir = /dd
**** STACK OVERFLOW ****
error #207

I would appreciate any help on what I am doing wrong. The r0.file is on my
current ramdrive r0.  Thanks, Keith

-*-

93636 11-SEP 23:36 System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93615)
     From: WDTV5        To: DOMM

You are welcome.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93637 11-SEP 23:44 System Modules (6809)
     RE: myram8 info (Re: Msg 93618)
     From: WDTV5        To: REVKAK

Gee Keith, I have no idea! I used "uue", and DOMM just grabbed it and got
it decoded ok. One item I've noticed might be in your "settings" here on
delphi. Files I've grabbed on the Amiga, null modemed to the coco suffer
from linefeeds embedded in them. Seems like I've done a "tr 10 13 filename"
on several occassions to fix that. For some reason, UUE doesn't like to find
a $0A in the file its decodeeing. After doing that, you may have to edit it
in your favorite editor to remove the extracarraige returns that gives, AND
if there is a delphi "Press return for more" or similar in it, clip that
stuffs out. And I just noticed you gave it a bunch of command line args.
I usually just "uud filename", when its done, the original file will then
be in the working directory. 'smatter of fact, I didn't even know UUE had
any command line arguments! Prolly admitting my dumbness, but what can I say?
Hope this helps Keith, Gene

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93541 3-SEP 20:26  Tutorials & Education
     Coco history
     From: DOMM         To: ALL

I wonder if anyone knows what happened to the three programmers
CoCo owners see on their screen?

Who are these guys and where are they now?

I was just looking over some Microware literature and was hoping
to see any of their names somewhere but didn't see anything.

Somebody somewhere must know. Seems like an interesting thing to
know since they still appear every now and then. <G>

Any thoughts?


---Dom

-*-

93550 4-SEP 00:31  Tutorials & Education
     RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93541)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: DOMM

 Boisy could answer this better,, but to my best knowledge "two" are still
 with Microware,, thh other moved onward.
  Terry Simons  UPGRADE Editor

-*-

93558 4-SEP 21:10  Tutorials & Education
     RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93550)
     From: DOMM         To: MRUPGRADE

Terry---

> ...two are still with Microware..the other moved onward.

Yeah.. thats what I seem to remember. Also the guy who left then,
(the one in the middle (???), went to Microsoft.(???)

It would sure be fun to hunt them down and get updated info
and possible an updated photo. <G>

Is the best way to contact Boisey through the Coco listserver?
(I thought that Marty Goodman would know but he didn't.)


---Dom










-*-

93559 4-SEP 21:34  Tutorials & Education
     RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93558)
     From: MRUPGRADE    To: DOMM

  Boisy  DELPHI BOISY  is on  regularly.  Was last on Sept 2.  If he doesn't
 respond seeing these messages,, just leave thh question direct.
  Terry Simons  UPGRADE Editor

-*-

93560 4-SEP 22:09  Tutorials & Education
     RE: Coco history (Re: Msg 93559)
     From: DOMM         To: MRUPGRADE

Terry-

Thanks- it dawned on me after I sent the last message that he could be
reached through Delphi. <G>

---Dom

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93542 3-SEP 21:42  General Information
     Colored Memory?
     From: THETAURUS    To: ALL

         A recent post mentioning colored memory got me curious. Just
       what exactly is it? I've heard the term before, but never did get
       what it is.

         >Chris<

-*-

93548 3-SEP 23:48  General Information
     RE: Colored Memory? (Re: Msg 93542)
     From: RANDYKWILSON To: THETAURUS

Chris,

 Colored memory is a chunk of RAM that has a supposed dedicated usage. Being
labeled as such, the OS will not allocate it except for it's purpose unless
there isn't any other free RAM available. Colored memory is not a case of
"don't use this", it's "don't use this unless you have no other choice".

 In the case of MM/1s, where you most likely have seen the reference, the
video controller can only access the one meg of RAM on the main board.
So, in 3, 9, and 11 meg machines, this one meg bank is marked as colored
memory belonging to the video. OSK, when loading programs and allocating
data space, will not use this memory until all the other RAM blocks are
full.

 As a contrast, compare this to a clone machine with 8 megs of ram, plus
one meg on the video card. When that eight megs is full, you're done. With
OSK and colored memory, when the eight megs is gone, the system will go
after any spare ram in the video memory.


   Randy

-*-

93582 7-SEP 22:18  General Information
     RE: Colored Memory? (Re: Msg 93548)
     From: WDTV5        To: RANDYKWILSON

Nice explanation Randy, thanks. Cheers, Gene

-*-

93623 10-SEP 20:58 General Information
     RE: Colored Memory? (Re: Msg 93548)
     From: THETAURUS    To: RANDYKWILSON

         >>Colored memory is a chunk of RAM that has a supposed dedicated
       usage.<<

         Thanks Randy, now it makes sense. There was an old OS-9
       Underground article on applications using that, so maybe I'll go
       back and read it since now I have a basic idea of what they are
       talking about :-)

         See Ya
         >Chris<

-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93544 3-SEP 21:42  Users Group
     Sourcebook: BBS Form
     From: THETAURUS    To: ALL

         The latest edition of the MOTD saw the 'debut' of the BBS User's
       form for the Sourcebook. I will include the form in this message.
       If you run a bulletin board system or know enough about a system
       that you use, please fill this out and return it to the the
       address 'Thetaurus@Delphi.com' or to simply 'Thetaurus' if you are
       sending directly from Delphi. Keep in mind, you do NOT need to be
       a member of the UG to have your BBS added to the sourcebook!

                           The OS-9 User's Group Sourcebook
                                  Bulletin Board System
                                         Entry Form

       BBS Name

       _______________________________________________________________

       Sysop

       ______________________________________________________________

       Phone Number: (______) ______-_________

       City:__________________________  State:______ Country Code:_______

            7/E/1 or 8/N/1?(circle one)

       Lowest Baud Rate Supported ____________

       Highest Baud Rate Supported ____________

       Does this BBS have a Fido-Net Connection? ______

       Does it have an Internet Connection? ______

       Supports(check all the apply):

       OS-9 Level I & II ____   OS-9 68000 ____  OS-9000 ____

            Please feel free to add any addition comments and information
       on the back of this form. The more we know about your BBS, the
       better!


         Chris Perrault
         OS-9 Users' Group
         Sourcebook Coordinator


-*-

93545 3-SEP 21:42  Users Group
     Sourcebook:Industrial User Form
     From: THETAURUS    To: ALL

         If you are a company that uses the Industrial version of OS-9
       please fill out and return the following Industrial User Form that
       will be added to The OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook. Keep in mind,
       that you do NOT have to be a member of the UG in order to be added
       to the sourcebook. There has been some confusion regarding that
       recently, so I just wanted to clear it up.

 The OS-9 Users' Group Sourcebook
 Industrial User Entry Form
 ---------------------------------

 Company Name _____________________________________________________________

 Street ___________________________ City __________________ State _________

 Zip Code ___________  Country _____________

 Telephone(w/area code) __________________

 Email _________________________________________________

 Please give a description what your company specialises in.

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 ...and briefly summarise the OS-9 system(s) used by your company?

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 ___________________________________________________________________________

 Finally, please give a brief description of HOW OS-9 is used within your
 workplace.

 ____________________________________________________________________________

 ____________________________________________________________________________

 ____________________________________________________________________________

 ____________________________________________________________________________

         Chris Perrault
         OS-9 Users' Group
         Sourcebook Coordinator


-*-

93547 3-SEP 22:53  General Information
     OS-9 Late Night Reminder
     From: THETAURUS    To: ALL

         OK everyone, don't forget(I'm posting this later than I wanted
       to) that tomorrow September 4th at 10:00 pm Eastern time, Mike
       Rowen, the OS-9 Users' Group Vice President of 6809 will be
       returning as special guest host. If you are a UG member or
       interested OS-9 level I or II user, you will want to attend this
       conference. It will be a continuation of his first conference, for
       those who were on hand the last time.

         Also coming up....


          September 11, 1995  10:00 PM       Open Forum

          September 18, 1995  10:00 PM       See You in Atlanta!

            Newton White, from the Atlanta Computer Society will be
          here to preview the upcoming Atlanta CocoFest(9/30,10/31).
          If you want to know who will be there, how you can get
          there, and what it's like to be at an Atlanta Cocofest, this
          is the place to be. If you haven't registered to attend, do
          so now!!

          September 25, 1995  10:00 PM       Sculptor W/KD Consulting
                                             Group

            Kurt Johnson, President of _KD Consulting Group_ will be
          here to answer your questions about Sculptor, the highly
          touted OS-9 database that is used all over! Sculptor has
          been THE database for OS-9 based systems for years now, and
          it is flexible enough to be used for many different
          applications. Kurt will discuss some of the possibilities as
          well as some of the places and companies that currently use
          Sculptor, such as NASA. Until recently when KD Associates
          began running ads in the MOTD, Sculptor was hard to find and
          many considered it an abandoned work. Now the word is out.
          Sculptor is back and supported 100%, and we will learn more
          about it right here, on OS-9 Late Night!



-*-

93556 4-SEP 17:52  General Information
     coco3 for sale
     From: SYSWOP       To: ALL

        I finally decided to do it. I am selling off my Coco3 and the whole
pile of hardware.

 included is :

                4 - 512k coco3
                1 - disto 4 in 1 controller
                2 - RS  501 floppy controllers
                1 - RS  500 Floppy controller
                2 - RS   rs232 packs
                1 - RS multipack w/upgrade
                1 - CM8 monitor
                1 - B&B hard drive interface w/mfm card
                1 - seagate 40 meg drive
                1 - seagate 60 meg drive
                1 - teac 360k flopy
                1 - 3.5" floppy drive
                power supply to drive both floppy drives
                1 - composite monitor
NitrOs9 w/docs

                1 - RS coco1 floppy controller modified to run hi density
                    ( not working )

                misc rom packs
                os9 level ii with books
                misc other hardware and hard cards + several other hard drives

                Tons of software and information that I have collected in the
pst
                8 years.

     since part of the above does me no good, I would prefer to sell it all at
one time.
But since we all know Coco users dont usually have a lot of money, I will
consider selling it in groups, NOT one piece at a time.

 Anyone interested in making me a resonable offer can leave a message here.
OR you can call me Voice  between  10am an 6pm monday thru friday at
    1-417-862-0837   ask for Terry.

-*-

93574 6-SEP 15:05  General Information
     dmode output
     From: MIKE_GUZZI   To: MITHELEN

i cannot get a dmode output right now, the emulator does not like windoze.

basically i set the dmode params to increase the cylinders ONLY, i set aside 5
megs for the emulator, but due to a bug in the emulator, a 9 meg file was
created. this has been fixed from what I hear. I asked for the new version.

now all i hope is he adds comm support, then it will be complete!

Mike

-*-

93590 7-SEP 22:51  General Information
     Cancelling TELENUT account
     From: DIGIGRADE    To: ALL


    Hi there everyone, I just want you to know that I am canceling my
TELENUT account and you should send me mail at DIGIGRADE from now on.


       <CLICK>
 _____________________________________________________________________________
 |Dave Pellerito    -   <digigrade@delphi.com>  |  Posted using InfoXpress   |
 |Digigrade Productions   -   Digital Services  |  with an MM/1 running OSK  |
 |---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 | *********** Compact discs, the greatest idea since television *********** |
 |___________________________________________________________________________|

-*-

93624 10-SEP 20:58 General Information
     Late Night Reminder
     From: THETAURUS    To: ALL


         Don't forget that tomorrow night, Monday September 11, at 10:00
       pm Eastern time, we will be having our weekly OS-9 Late Night
       conference. This week will be an Open Forum, so everything is up
       for discussion, and nothing is sacred. :-) Also don't forget to
       check up on the conference banner for a list of upcoming
       Conferences as we have several big ones in the coming weeks!

         Next week will be the Atlanta Fest conference and the one
       following will be the Sculptor conference!

         See Ya

         Chris Perrault
         OS-9 Users' Group
         Sourcebook Coordinator

-*-

93642 12-SEP 21:04 Programmers Den
     Language
     From: MICHAELJN    To: ALL

Can anyone tell me (or try a good guess) what Language was used the most for
theTandy Color Computer 3 under OS9? My friend would like to know because he
stillshas interest in programming.

-*-

93644 12-SEP 21:39 Programmers Den
     RE: Language (Re: Msg 93642)
     From: ADITNAVEL    To: MICHAELJN



I would wager that for the Coco3 under OS9 it would probably be:

  #1 'C' or Basic09
  #2 Assembler
  #3 Pascal
  #4 Forth (Very rare)


-*-

93649 15-SEP 02:09 Programmers Den
     RE: Language (Re: Msg 93644)
     From: MICHAELJN    To: ADITNAVEL

Thanks alot! We just might be programming down the road and hope to keep the
Coco alive.

-*-

93652 15-SEP 22:07 Programmers Den
     RE: Language (Re: Msg 93642)
     From: WDTV5        To: MICHAELJN (NR)

Most of it has been done in asm for the utils. Major proggies tended to
be done in C cause it takes care of the housekeeping a LOT better than
we do if we don't keep a memory map on the wall, and a stack image right
in our source to keep track of what var is where! At least thats my technic
when running a new proggy in asm. For me at least, keeping track of the stack
can be/is a big memory (mine) prob. Thats my $.02 worth.
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93653 15-SEP 22:16 Programmers Den
     RE: Language (Re: Msg 93652)
     From: WDTV5        To: WDTV5

Yeah, but I forgot about B09. I haven't attempted to do anything for publication

in Basic09 since MicroWare changed their mind long about level 2 time and
decided we CAN'T furnish the RunB runtime translator WITH our programs without
making previous arrangments to license it as such. IMHO, a damned good way
to kill a good language! Which it is, anbd I have some nice stuff I've done
in Basic09. But as an sometimes author here, I will respect MicroWares wishes
and therefore have not uploaded stuffs for Basic09 unless, and I have considered

it, I just uploaded the source text only. That shouldn't be copyrighted by
anyone but the author. How about it out there, would some of you like to see
a version of Robert Moores "MaxIc" with a few more bells and whistles, and
which ACTUALLY works?
Cheers, Gene

-*-

93654 15-SEP 23:27 Programmers Den
     RE: Language (Re: Msg 93653)
     From: REVKAK       To: WDTV5 (NR)

MaxIc? Sure! what is it? Thanks, Keith

-*-

93657 16-SEP 01:24 Programmers Den
     RE: Language (Re: Msg 93653)
     From: DBREEDING    To: WDTV5 (NR)

 > Yeah, but I forgot about B09. I haven't attempted to do anything for
 > publication
 > in Basic09 since MicroWare changed their mind long about level 2 time and
 > decided we CAN'T furnish the RunB runtime translator WITH our programs
 > without making previous arrangments to license it as such.

Actually, would this be a problem with CoCo Level-2-specific programs?
Since Basic09 was included with the package, anyone who has a legal
copy of Level 2 should certainly have RUNB already?  I'm assuming that
packed code is legal, as I have seen this in circulation.

 > I have considered
 > it, I just uploaded the source text only. That shouldn't be copyrighted
 > by anyone but the author.

It would seem that this would be no better.  It would appear that anyone
who would have Basic09 would have "runb".  I don't suppose the packed
code is restricted from circulation, is it?  I know I have seen quite a
bit of packed code floating around.  All that is restricted is "runb",
isn't it?

                         -- David Breeding --
       CompuServe : 72330,2051             Delphi :  DBREEDING
    *** Composed with InfoXpress/OSK Vr. 1.02 & VED Vr. 2.4.0  ***

-*-

93659 16-SEP 12:23 Programmers Den
     RE: Language (Re: Msg 93653)
     From: JOHNBAER     To: WDTV5 (NR)

   Hello Gene,

> ... How about it out there, would some of you like to see a version
> of Robert Moores "MaxIc" ...

  What the heck, put it up.  Don't know what it is but I'll look at it.

  John


-*-

End of Thread.

-*-

93645 13-SEP 04:57 Music & Sound
     Maxsound
     From: DGANTZ       To: ALL

I've already posted a similar message in the CoCo Sig but was hopeing that
there might be some experienced OS9'ers out there that could help me with
a MaxSound problem (MaxSound of course is a RSDos program).  I've been playing
with several audio digitizing programs to find one that would be suitable
to construct a number of greetings for my answering machine.  MaxSound seems
to be the one because of its sequencer.  However, I'm having trouble with
the sequencer.  Primarily because I bought my MaxSound used and there now
appears to be a missing disk(s).  The docs refer to a (M)axsound saved file
called "DEMO2" and I received no such files with the other original disk,
hardware, and docs.

My questions are:  Can someone xfer said files to OS9, lha them, uue them, and
mail them to me?  If not, does someone have a handle on the sequencer functions
and some time to spare to educate me?

Any help would be most appreciated.

Thanx in advance

      Dave
      DGANTZ
      DGANTZ@Delphi.com

-*-

93648 13-SEP 23:19 General Information
     termcap
     From: TMF          To: ALL

I need help with Termcap for my SYSTEM IV.  I find that there are    some
really funky things that happen when I use VED or DDX or TTERM. When I am
using VED not under GWINDOWS I have to use abm85h termcap or I get some really
strange code before and after each letter or word . If I use VT100 or VGA I
get either the file starting near the bottom of the screen or to have funny
codes at the beginning and end of each word. I need to use vga for tterm due
to the lack of complete entry. To use DDX I have to use VGA , but then I get
the same thing for data entry as when I use VED. PS most of these also happen
with umacs. ~
   I sent a copy of my termcap to Pagan and he sent me a copy of P1\vga , but
to no avail. Help is greatly appreciated. BTW DDX don't work under GWINDOWS.
Somewhere there is happiness somewhere there is sunshine , but not here in
Denver. For the mighty termcap has struck out.~
Tom Farrow=


-*-

93655 16-SEP 00:41 OSK Applications
     i2c bus
     From: ADITNAVEL    To: ALL


I was wondering if anyone has heard anything about i2c drivers for the MM/1
or the SCC68070. I was told that the drivers were started at some point,
but were never finished. If anyone could shed some light on this I would
appreciate it. I already have a call in to MW and they're looking to see
what they have, but we all know that is big $$$. Any help would be
appreciated!



-*-

93658 16-SEP 11:23 General Information
     USING 80tr.DRIVES
     From: RONMAGOO     To: ALL

I have been a cocoNut since 1989, and although I have been picking
up OS-9 software at fest for several years, I am a slow learner.
I just recently started getting serious about OS-9. I discovered
that to do much, I would need at least a pair of 80 track drives,
which I recently acquired.

The first thing I discovered is, they won't read my regular disk!
That the 80 tracks will also format 35 & 40 tracks, and that OS-9
will read them, but not backup, dsave, or otherwise transfer to
them from regular Coco disk. I get 243, 244, & 247 errors.

I tried creating all kinds of boot cofigurations on both sets of
disk drives to no avail. Finally, I put one of each drive in the
same case. That worked! I can backup, dsave etc. in 35, 40, & 80
track and create disk that will work with the 80 track drives.

This still leaves several problems;

    1. Tandy didn't provide /d0 80 track drivers or an 80 track
       default descriptor. So how can one boot an 80 track drive
       from basic ??

    2. If you have to mix 40tr.& 80tr. in the same case you have
       no way to use a two drive system with either one, because
       I could find no way to make all 4 work together.

    3. The only solution I could come up with was to make a copy
       of anything you might possibly want to use on the 80 track
       system on a mixed set of drives before putting them back
       as matched sets. The only problem with this is that you
       either have to have a 3rd 40tr.,80tr.& power case to make
       transfers, or keep opening cases and swithing drives !!

Even with that solution, you still don't have 80 track default
to boot from basic with. Surely there must be a better way to
work all this out.

I would appreciate any help all you Ole "OS-9 Hackers" could
give this lost RS-DOS soul to bring me up to full OS-9 speed.!!

-= RON =-

-*-


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