NUMBER OF LINES: 999
001=Usr:0 Null User         06/30/87 20:34  Msg:0 Call:0  Lines:19
  1$If you are in need of help, you need but ask...
  2$************************* INSTALLED: 3 AUG 89 ****************************
  3$Welcome to BWMS II (BackWater Message System II)  Mike Day System operator
  4$**************************************************************************
  5$GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS II IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
  6$                    PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
  7$BWMS II was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS II is a privately 
  8$owned and operated system which is currently open for use by the general
  9$public.  No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.  As the
 10$system is privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all
 11$messages which I may find offensive.  Because of the limited size of the
 12$system, it will be periodically purged of messages (only 999 lines of data
 13$can be saved).  To leave a message, type 'ENTER'.  Use ctrl/C to get out
 14$the ENTER mode.  The message is automatically stored.  If after entering
 15$the message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to
 16$replace the line.  To exit from the system, type 'BYE' then hang up.
 17$Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
 18$**************************************************************************
 19$ 
002=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY      08/03/89 22:37  Msg:4197 Call:23053  Lines:2
 20 It is not necessary to light a candle to the sun.
 21 ********************************************************************
003=Usr:322 Stray Cat         08/03/89 23:31  Msg:4198 Call:23054  Lines:2
 22  
 23 WOW, I'm first ... so where is everybody???
004=Usr:116 Michael Gray      08/04/89 04:49  Msg:4199 Call:23061  Lines:4
 24 (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
 25 PRAYING WE DON'T GET MORE
 26 NEWS SERVICE UPLOADS!!!!!
 27 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
005=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  08/04/89 08:39  Msg:4200 Call:23063  Lines:6
 28 &*&*&*&*'s
 29 I was going to mention that I'm near the top, But I wont. :-)
 30  
 31 An Astral Dreamer
 32 &*&*&*&*'s
 33  
006=Usr:4 Milchar           08/04/89 11:29  Msg:4201 Call:23068  Lines:8
 34 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 35 Friar:  When do I get downtown?  Why, every day.  I live in an
 36 apartment off the South Park Blocks.
 37 ++++++++
 38 Well, it was nice to see everyone who made it to the PCS Pizza Social-
 39 small group though it was.  Inner Mysteries of BW discussed and so on.
 40 We really must do this more often.
 41 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milchar ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
007=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock   08/04/89 15:24  Msg:4202 Call:23070  Lines:9
 42 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::====
 43 Well, then, if everyone is still here,  then are we up to a little multi user
 44 tale or two?  And, hey, here's a novel  ide...  We might actually consider
 45 FINISHING it instead of just ENDING it  this time!  That is, if anyone has any
 46 ideas...  And I assume Mikey does NOT
 47 want anyone ressurecting the Inn, so that leaves that idea out.  Suggestions,
 48 faithful ones?
 49 No rabbits this time, I promise! :)
 50 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::==Zephyr::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::====
008=Usr:322 Stray Cat         08/05/89 08:05  Msg:4203 Call:23083  Lines:5
 51 XOXOXOXOXOOXOXOXOXXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO
 52  
 53 Pretty neat border, don't you think??? Just wanted to try it out ...
 54  
 55 XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO
009=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  08/05/89 13:59  Msg:4204 Call:23088  Lines:10
 56 &*&*&*&*'s
 57 We had a cyber-punkish world going for awhile, but it has sort of died out.
 58 But it wouldn't be that hard to revive. 
 59  
 60 Best we pick a genra and start in. I vote for cyber-punk, but I'm flexible.
 61  
 62 An Astral Dreamer
 63 &*&*&*&*'s
 64  
 65 (Ok, so I can't spell.)
010=Usr:4 Milchar           08/06/89 00:00  Msg:4205 Call:23096  Lines:7
 66 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 67 Weeellll... I'm flexible.  Anything interesting would do, but I am
 68 stuck for new thoughts at the moment.  I shall ponder new avenues of
 69 creativity.  As for the Cyberpunk genre, I sort of wrote myself into
 70 a corner, and couldn't think of a way out.  A fresh start would be
 71 best, all round.
 72 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
011=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  08/06/89 11:36  Msg:4206 Call:23103  Lines:9
 73 &*&*&*&*'s
 74 OK, I know people are loging in. (You can't fool me, I'm level 1.) So could
 75 you Please leave messages?
 76  
 77 It seems that whenever somebody mentions writing the board dries up.
 78  
 79 An Astral Dreamer
 80 &*&*&*&*'s
 81  
012=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock   08/06/89 14:04  Msg:4207 Call:23104  Lines:26
 82 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::====
 83 Cyber Punk, eh?  Definite possibilities.  Perhaps a cyber punk style planet, 
 84 keeping a bar room atmosphere in honor  of the Inn, but creating some mystical
 85 meeting place of the mind that somehow  contrasts the stark-future outside the
 86 window.  No, not technology versus the  mystical arts, but instead a world 
 87 where those arts are all but forgotten, and need to be revived.  Unlike the
 88 late, lamented Inn, this might allow    for science fiction AN fantasy to exist
 89 side by side...  I've always been rather annoyed by writers who seem to think 
 90 that the two have to be exclusive on any given world.  A sword & laser epic set
 91 against the backdrop of a thousand      worlds...  Sinbad & Alladin mixing in 
 92 a touch of John Carter, with a little   bit of Shadow & Doc Savage, to allow 
 93 for the heroic element that *usually*   appears in the handles/characters used
 94 by various individuals, and giving 
 95 those characters the opportunitty to     take the best of both worlds...  Magic
 96 at its best, for all its wonder and its potential for creating plot ideas, and
 97 science for transportation, logical     continuity, and a SOLID background from
 98 which the mystical element can bounce   off of.
 99 We'd need a little bit of Inn thrown in for good measure...  Perhaps a few 
100 lost artifacts?  Say, no one ever really explained what the planet that the
101 Inn was on was like, did they?  What
102 happened to the populance of that world?  We've been shown that ma have the
103   ability to hop dimensins, so did they  end up in this new planet?  Dimension
104 change, or merely distance?  Time change or simply different planet?
105 This is the best part about literary    telecommunications...  Look at us, 
106 we're making a PLANET!
107 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::==Zephyr::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::====
013=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill     08/06/89 18:23  Msg:4208 Call:23109  Lines:14
108 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
109 O, Astral - not all of us are level one.  I'd be willing to contribute
110 to a Fantasy/SF/CyberPunk storyline.  Say, was the pond destroyed along
111 with the Inn? - that might be a good place to start.  Something approx-
112 imating the old multi-user stories of the Inn would be ideal.  Gurus:
113 is there a particular place/state-of-mind associated with BWMSII??
114  
115 Mostly a swoblurk...
116  
117 "In my opinion, anyone interested in improving himself should not    _
118  rule out becoming pure energy."                                    /#)
119                -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts"             n   n   n (#/ 
120                                                         / ~~~ ~~~ \/
121 /*/*/*/*/*/*/* -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
014=Usr:219 Friar Mossback    08/06/89 21:46  Msg:4209 Call:23112  Lines:6
122 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
123 SWOB-
124 All right, I'll admit it, I am not *that* well read.  Who is this Jack 
125 Handey character, and where can I read more of him.  He seems a rather
126 interesting bloke.
127 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   Friar    [][][][][][][][][][][][][]
015=Usr:371 The Adherent      08/07/89 01:55  Msg:4210 Call:23119  Lines:11
128 L----!----!-----------------------------------------------------!----!---R
129 Mr. Rabbit:  How about NOT using a bar motif that the memory might rest
130      in peace?       ...just jack-in and cruise the nearest bright spot.
131 A. Dreamer:  The place dries up?  Oh, dry up yourself. :-)  It just so
132      happens that I am trying to mold a start for something, yet I am
133      running into the age-old question of the solo-writer:  What next?
134 MIKEY:  (as I let the cat out of te bag...)  I hope the 3M disks I gave
135      you are adequate (ie. they work).  Just curious.
136                                                                 -adherent
137 L----!----!-----------------------------------------------------!----!---R
138  
016=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill     08/07/89 13:43  Msg:4211 Call:23130  Lines:12
139 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
140 Friar:  I wish I knew where to find more Jack Handey stuff.  All I have 
141        are some quotes that appeared in the Oregonian a couple years
142         back.  All I know is that he's an author from Arizona - maybe
143         Powell's has something.  I'll have to check before I run out
144         of quotes!
145  
146 "I wish I had a Kryptonite cross, because then you could keep both   _
147  Dracula *and* Superman away."                                      /#)
148                -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts"             n   n   n (#/ 
149                                                         / ~~~ ~~~ \/
150 /*/*/*/*/*/*/* -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
017=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    08/07/89 14:06  Msg:4212 Call:23132  Lines:92
151 Too Tired To Think...
152            I agree, let's all pray for no more "news" on BWMS.  I personally 
153 find the continual discussion of who's lurking and wanting to start a story but
154 having no ideas truly facinating reading.  But then I'm...
155 Too Tired To Think...
156                                                                               
157 696969696969
158             he, he, he. Your prayers are answered:DEBATE - HELP FOR THE WORKING
159     The working poor are not deadbeats. They don't want a government handout. 
160 They want to earn their own way. They deserve our respect and our help. 
161 Working poor is a concept we cannot accept, especially when the price is paid 
162 in blood.
163  OTHER VIEWS:
164     CHRISTINE PRATT MARSTON, consultant and advocate on anti-poverty issues: 
165 The plight of the working poor calls for a higher minimum wage, keeping more 
166 factory jobs, making sure new jobs are good jobs, more education and training, 
167 day care, health care for all, stronger unions, more worker-management 
168 cooperation, more decent housing and more realistic standards for assistance.
169     JEFF RIGGENBACH, free-lance writer and broadcaster: There is no greater 
170 enemy of the working poor than government. If those currently in government 
171 honestly want to make life easier for the working poor, they should begin by 
172 rolling back every effort they've made in that direction in the past. After 
173 that, they should sit firmly on their hands.
174     REP. THOMAS DOWNEY, D-N.Y.: "It's up to government to make work pay more 
175 than welfare."
176     DAVID ELLWOOD, Harvard professor, poverty expert: "For the first time in 
177 history, we have sons making less than their fathers."
178     PATRICK GRACE CONOVER, national coordinator, church and society programs, 
179 United Church of Christ: "When we focus on just one legislative aspect of the 
180 problem of poverty, we often lose sight of the reality that those in poverty 
181 are people."
182     BALTIMORE, MD., Gaynell Guice, 25, administrative assistant: "Instead of 
183 giving billions of dollars away to foreign countries like Israel and spending 
184 billions of dollars on weapons like the B-2 bomber, we need to put more money 
185 in programs that would benefit the poor. We have many homeless, poor, lost and 
186 hopeless people who could use those billions."
187     CHEEKTOWAGA, N.Y., Benedict Cirino, 64, retired distributor: "I've been 
188 following the HUD scandal, and I think Jack Kemp is doing all he can to clean 
189 up the mess and make sure the poor get what they deserve. He's doing what he 
190 can to help the poor. But I definitely think the minimum wage should be raised 
191 ..."
192     MORAGA, CALIF., Joyce Kane, 40, homemaker: "It's like a Catch-22. No 
193 matter what people do to make ends meet, it doesn't seem to be enough. The 
194 government can't help with everything, but day care is one area where there 
195 should be federal help ..."
196                                                                             
197                        DIPLOMATS QUIVER AT BUSH REMARK:-8/7/89
198     When President Bush put out a condemnation of kidnapping last week, some 
199 U.S. diplomats shivered. In tarnishing with one brush Israel for capturing 
200 Sheik Abdul Karim Obeid and Shiite terrorists for apparently killing hostage 
201 Lt. Col. William Higgins, Bush signaled Syria, Saudi Arabia and Egypt he was 
202 not knee-jerk in his support of Israel. Bush's words and Israel's act hurt 
203 relations.
204     Talk of a Mideast hostage swap fills the air after Israel and its Shiite 
205 neighbors staked out new turf Sunday. The Revolutionary Justice Organization, 
206 which holds U.S. hostage Joseph Cicippio, pledged to free him if Israel frees 
207 Sheik Obeid, 150 Lebanese, 300 Palestinian prisoners. Hezbollah leader Hussein 
208 Mousawi threatened to kill an Israeli soldier unless Israel frees Obeid.
209 GADHAFI BRISTLES AT BRIT SNUB:-8/7/89
210     Col. Moammar Gadhafi was incensed by British media criticism of his 
211 contention that William Shakespeare was of Arab origin. He had his radio, 
212 JANA, strike back at British "chauvinism," saying any Arab ties to Shakespeare 
213 would be "an honor to the British and Shakespeare himself and his family."
214                                                                                
215                         SENIOR SUICIDE RATE CLIMBING:-8/7/89
216     The suicide rate for senior citizens increased 25 percent between 1981 and 
217 1986, say new government statistics. The rise brought the suicide rate for 
218 those 65 years old and older to 21.6 per 100,000 - nearly double the national 
219 average of 12.8 per 100,000. Science News reports in its Aug. 5 issue that the 
220 suicide rate for seniors had been on a 50-year downward trend before 1981.
221                                                                                
222                         CHILDHOOD AIDS CASES TO RISE:-8/7/89
223     Nationwide, 1,681 children younger than 13 have AIDS, the Centers for 
224 Disease Control said recently. New York City has the most cases, with 451. The 
225 CDC expects the national number to increase to 3,000 by 1991. For every child 
226 who has AIDS, CDC estimates there are two to 10 others infected with the 
227 disease who remain free from symptoms.
228     The newly selected head of the National Commission on AIDS said recently 
229 that she wanted to convey a simple message: "Everybody who dies is somebody's 
230 son or daughter." Michigan pediatrician Dr. June Osborn was selected Thursday 
231 to head the newly formed commission. She is dean of the University of 
232 Michigan's School of Public Health, and a professor of epidemiology at the 
233 school.
234  
235 DRUGS SHOW PROMISE, DEMAND UP:
236     New evidence that the AIDS drugs AZT and deoxyinosine - or DDI - are 
237 promising therapies against the disease is likely to pressure the government 
238 to speed clinical trials of the drug. The Financial Times reported this week 
239 that new studies showing the drugs effective in the early stages of the 
240 disease has triggered a call for increased availability of the drugs to all 
241 AIDS patients.
242                                                                            
018=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    08/07/89 14:26  Msg:4213 Call:23133  Lines:23
243 GOD, and the GOP  +++ALWAYS+++ answer your prayers...just no always the way you
244 ask.
245                                                                                
246 696969696969696969
247                                                                              
248 CRRRUUUMMMBBBLLLAAASSSHHHHUUUMMMMBBPPPTTT!!!!!   She was shocked into reality.
249 As her vision cleared and she was able to focus, she could see that she was  
250 materializing inside what looked vaguely like the ancient Earth-style gathering
251 places she had read about in history classes.  Only, somehow, she knew there   
252 something unusual about this place.  She couldn't seem to remember anything   
253 prior to now.  Where had she been?  How had she gotten here?  Her vision, and 
254 thinking cleared a little more now, and she realized she wasn't alone.  In   
255 front of her was a round table, with a half-consumed dark amber fluid in a 
256 container of some sort sitting on it.  Across the size-less room she could see
257 several other creatures communicating with each other, but couldn't make out
258 their words, or details of their appearance.  "They look humanoid, I think."
259 she thought to herself.  Then she became aware of a feeling of warmth, and 
260 friendship permeating the atmosphere, and she began to feel much better.  As
261 she realized this, her vison cleared and all her senses returned.  She could 
262 see that a very cordial-looking individual was beginning to approach her.
263                                                                              
264 ............................................................................
265                                                                             
019=Usr:115 John Bach         08/07/89 20:08  Msg:4214 Call:23141  Lines:44
266  
267 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
268  
269    A *NEW* board to log into!
270  
271 +-------------------------------------+
272 I                                     I
273 I I\             \,            ,/     I
274 I I I RACONA     >Codisk station<     I
275 I I/             /'            '\     I
276 I                                     I
277 I                                     I
278 I                                     I
279 I o  We support ALL computer types!   I
280 I                                     I
281 I o  Programmers welcome              I
282 I                                     I
283 I o  Twittiness allowed               I
284 I                                     I
285 I o  Flames and foul language only    I
286 I    on designated boards             I
287 I                                     I
288 I                                     I
289 +-------------------------------------+
290  
291      Phone Number: 503-236-xxxx
292  20 hours a day from 12pm to 6am weekdays, and 3pm to 6am Sunday.
293  
294 SysOp: John Bach a.k.a. Hans Bolo
295  
296 Co-SysOps:  "Kid"
297             "Kev"
298             "Belgarath"
299             and "Scott H."
300  
301 We are the *ONLY* CoDisk software supporter in the entire US.
302  
303 System specs:  IBM XT/turbo with 10 meg HD, 512k ram, Hercules graphics
304 Software: RBBS-PC 17.2a
305  
306 Goal/plans:  To become one of three rbbs-net boards in Portland, and to set up
307 a better programmer/user interface.
308  
309 Call NOW!
020=Usr:219 Friar Mossback    08/08/89 08:24  Msg:4215 Call:23153  Lines:16
310 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
311 CRRRUUUMMMBBBLLLAAASSSHHHUUUMMMMBBPPPTTT!!!!!
312 I jumped in my chair, tipping over my snifter of B&B.  I looked across the 
313 room and saw a humanoid form misting into appearance.  "An odd way to appear
314 here,"  I thought to myself, "But not too different from a set of bagpipes 
315 as a time/space distorter."
316 I set my napkin on the spill, got up and ambled over to the new arrival, 
317 stopping by the bar to grab a pitcher of ale, two mugs, a plate of sandwiches
318 and a shaker of salt.  "Greetings friend.  Are you hungry or thirsty?  Let
319 us meet.  I am Friar Mossback, of the Agnosti."  I motioned to a chair and
320 set the food and drink on the table.  I bowed and poured a bit of salt in
321 my hand, tasted it, threw the remainder over my shoulder, and handed the 
322 shaker to the new arrival.  If she knew the custom, we could at least know we
323 had a common heritage to work from.
324 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   Friar    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
325  
021=Usr:115 John Bach         08/08/89 09:47  Msg:4216 Call:23157  Lines:7
326 from John Bach @9:45, 8-7-1989
327  
328 This is an interesting board.  Is it true that this is actually run on a
329 disk drive with this program burned into it?
330  
331 Oh.. I just read the AU command... I see.  So it IS a computer.  I guess the 
332 BWMS I was the one I'm thinking of.
022=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock   08/08/89 12:54  Msg:4217 Call:23161  Lines:8
333 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::
334      As the illuminating light of the third moon slipped behind the Stone
335 Triad, small spheres of glowing energy bobbed up into the thick green mist
336 that swirled through the night sky, allowing night passersby the safety of
337 proper lighting, the better for them to conduct whatever business had
338 brought them to Pyrix A'aaal.
339  
340  
023=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock   08/08/89 13:12  Msg:4218 Call:23162  Lines:73
341      On this particular night, if the unending blackness of the 
342 Third Cycle could even be considered night, the streets
343 of the markets and the doorsteps of the shops were
344 surprisingly empty, save for a few stray gallowits and
345 night devils, scrounging for sustainance in their
346 unending struggle for survival in the sometimes harsh
347 environment that they called "home."
348      In one of the Networks, the dark alleyways that run like
349 silvery catacombs throughout the entire City of Day, a
350 beggar idly watched one of his mammalian comerades in poverty
351 as it dug through a waste receptacle, only yp appear
352 empty pawed from its odious depths.
353      "=Ey, little fellow, you're not going t'find 
354 anything there.=" the old man muttered in Dialect, the slang
355 of the Legions. . . The vagabonds who inhabited the darkness
356 that enveloped the Networks.  
357      The tiny creature paused, as if contemplating the words of
358 the beggar.  Then, silently, it looked upwards at te
359 pale green sky, its long, whiskered ears pricked up, as
360 if the creature were answering a summons from on high. 
361      With a start, the little animal whimpered and leaped away
362 into one of the nondescript corners of the Net, its
363 only action in passage being the overturning of the waste
364 receptacle, which promptly spilled its contents onto the
365 ancient vagabond who had been the sole observer of these
366 events.
367     Sputtering mild expletives, the man began to brush the 
368 thick, syrupy products from his tattered green coat, clicking his
369 tongue in evident distaste over the present condition of his 
370 out-of-date garb.
371      A cloud moved towards the Triad of Stone in the sky, pausing
372 just beneath its cracked surface.  A low rumbling began to
373 rise from the distance, like the beating of a lonesome drummer
374 against drums of bone.
375      The withered old man paused from his cleaning and gazed at the 
376 sky, as the small creature had done before.  
377      "Clamph!" he whispered, so awed by the sight that was 
378 now unfolding before him that he neglected the commands of his
379 chosen diety that Her name not be used in vain.
380      A low hum filled the alleyway, as the man backed into a corner,
381 spreading the greasy remains from the receptacle over the paper-littered
382 ground.
383      Then, suddenly, all sound ceased.
384      All was quiet.
385      A silent beam dropped from the thick cloud, a beam of sizzling
386 orange, contrasting starkly with the green sky from which, even now, it
387 was falling.
388      The pavement hissed for a few moments, and then a bright
389 flash forced the onlooker to turn his red-lined eyes from the odd
390 spectacle that was unfolding before him.
391      When he finally managed to store up enough courage to look once more
392 towards the beam, it had vanished.  In its place stood a 
393 tall, strikingly handsome young humanoid male.  Dressed in grey,
394 reflective garb, with a cloak of bold blue upon his back, he strode
395 towards the old man, like an unearthly force given life by the 
396 energy that seethed around him.  It danced and sparked, sputtering
397 as bits of stray lightning crashed together where he moved.  He
398 gripped the shoulders of the beggar with thin fingers that had an
399 impossibly strong grip for so thin and wiry a man, and with a voice
400 that tinged with the cold ring of steel, he whispered.  
401      "This place.  Where?"  His eyes seemed to crackle with energy.
402      The beggar, speechless with fear, could only mutter and sob.
403      "Ah." the cloaked man said.  "I see.  Unintelligent life."  With
404 a casual expression, he snapped the man's neck, tossing the lifeless
405 body to the ground.  
406      The cloaked man jolted upright.  A flash of understanding crept
407 across his features.  "Understood.  I will comply."
408      There, at last, he had been given his mission.  Short, precise,
409 but leaving enough to chance to make this interesting.  The hunt had
410 begun, and only with a word, which the cloaked man whispered again
411 and again under his icy breath.
412      "Friar..."
413 :::::=====:::::=====:::::=====::Zephyr::=====:::::=====:::::=====:::::=====
024=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill     08/08/89 15:10  Msg:4219 Call:23164  Lines:163
414 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
415 Wll, it looks like the big Morality Debate is about over.  I'd almost 
416 forgotten I still had one more post on disk here - I'd just skip it but
417 I think it addresses some important points.
418  
419 M> I don't even want to 
420 M> get into morals, because that is a massive can of worms to deal with that
421 M> is purely personal in nature. Yet far too many people believe that _their_
422 M> moral system is the only acceptable system and that all other people must
423 M> be forced to comply to their personal vision of reality. 
424  
425          Certainly the person who faults others for not coming up with 
426      the same conclusions he did does wrong, but do understand, this is 
427      *not* what I am advocating.  The kind of person you are thinking of
428      thinks that everybody else believes the same things he does, and if
429      he sees a discrepancy between what they do and what he believes, he
430      assumes that they see it too and did it anyway.  In short, he thinks
431      that just because what they do seems wrong to him, that it also seems
432      wrong to them, and that they therefore do wrong in doing it.  The kind
433      of person I'm thinking of believes what he does because he thinks it's
434      true, but at the same time he acknowledges that this is something he
435      has learned, something logical.  Therefore, when he notices differences
436      in ideologies not in line with his own, he at once believes them to be
437      errors, but does not consider the one who believes them to be criminal.
438      If he sees something in the new ideology which he finds to be true, he
439      will adopt it.  I try to be this kind of person.  While I believe you
440      may be completely true to your beliefs, and therefore not *wrong* in
441      the personal sense (and have every right to believe what you do), I
442      believe wholeheartedly that your ideology is wrong.  Much like the
443      quote you gave a while back (Voltaire???).
444           I don't fault the Ancients for thinking that pi was 3.  They
445      were, of course, wrong, but it wasn't because they wanted to cheat
446      the pie-makers by ordering by radius and taking .1415... off of pi.
447      They honestly thought that it was three.  If someone discovers that
448      the world we live in is not really Euclidean and hands me a new, 
449      revised version of pi, I will certainly change my value, provided
450      I have reason to believe he's right.  This means that I was wrong
451      in my previous belief, but not wrong in believing it.  This is how
452      I feel about other ideologies, too.  That is one of the main ideas
453      I'm trying to present.
454    
455 M>   I don't seek after "truth" in that sense, I seek after information. 
456 M> I accept the concept that there may be many "truths". I try to understand 
457 M> the alternate truths so that I can better understand how other people 
458 M> think and how they have formed their reality. 
459  
460           My only problem with this is that I see no basis for your 
461      preferring understanding to ignorance (or even open-mindedness
462      to closed).  
463  
464 M>    I operate within the current version of my own reality, but I also 
465 M> recognize that there are other realities and other versions of the 
466 M> truth that may not fit my own. This does not make them right or wrong,
467 M> it only makes them different. 
468  
469           You say you operate within the "current" version of your own
470      reality.  What was the reason you changed from your previous 
471      versions of reality?
472  
473 M>    For some people Jesus was the son of God, for others he was just a
474 M> man who happen to be in the right place at the right time. Some people
475 M> demand that one view or the other be the only acceptable reality, so
476 M> they pick one and deny the other. Yet, they are both perfectly valid
477 M> views of reality that depend on your belief system. 
478  
479           A person may of course decide upon either one based upon his
480      best information, but surely only one can be correct.
481  
482 M Though morality is often justified by logical proofs, it is
483 M> based in beliefs not logic.
484  
485           Absolutely!  Moral specifics may be justified by logic when 
486      logic is applied to the basic beliefs (axioms).  Morality in totality
487      cannot be justified by logic since its axioms are moral, not logical.
488      Note that this by no means precludes its being absolute.  I take it
489      you believe logic to be absolute - make no mistake, this is a belief,
490      just as much as belief in morality is.  
491  
492 M> The logical proof is an attempt to 
493 M> scientifically prove that a specific morality is the "right" one
494 M> and that all others are "wrong".
495  
496           The logical proof may attempt to prove a specific morality
497      to be right and all others with the same axioms wrong, but only given
498      the reader accepts the axioms.  The real essence of the moral system
499      lies in the axioms, all else is the logical extension of them.  Surely
500      someone who didn't believe that the shortest line between two points 
501      is straight would scoff at geometry texts.  The geometry is only true
502      as long as the axioms hold.  There has been some debate as to whether
503      the space we live in is Euclidean.  In response, many texts take care
504      to note that they deal with Euclidean geometry and that the theory
505      discussed may not apply to all areas (like particle physics).  If
506      one does not believe the premise, one will not believe the logical
507      extensions of it.
508  
509 M> Though I'll certainly fight to keep my reality intact if
510 M> it is attacked by another. 
511  
512           How may someone attack your morality?  If you do not share 
513      _any_ common beliefs about morality, how can he expose (or think
514      he has exposed) some error in your thinking?  There can be no
515      logical extension of 'there are no morals,' and nothing logical
516      (as far as *I* can see) can induce you to believe a moral axiom.  
517  
518 M>    Mostly though, I tend to point out that one person's belief system
519 M> is not the only possible one when I see that stance taken. It doesn't
520 M> always gain me a favorable response, but at least they know where I'm
521 M> coming from, and just maybe they will think about it.
522  
523           Good idea.  But I hope they won't think they have to abandon
524      all hope for truth in order to believe it.
525  
526 Hagbard>    Logic is, in itself, self-defeating.  If you can think of a
527 Hagbard> single paradox, then you will find what I am describing.
528  
529           I think logic is quite robust, actually.  Paradoxes are nonsense
530      in that they are not logical.  'This sentence is false' does not 
531      attack the foundation of logic unless part of that foundation is that
532      all sentences are logically coherent.
533  
534 Hagbard>  Don't believe that logic is all-proof.  After all, how do you
535 Hagbard> define logic?  There is nothing lower: you have reached the 
536 Hagbard> foundation of modern understanding.
537  
538           Absolutely.  You must either accept or reject logic, just as
539     you must accept or reject morality.  All proofs must ultimately be 
540      based in acceptance of *something* without question.
541  
542 Hagbard>    As for the good-evil thing, before anyone makes another entry,
543 Hagbard> have you considered that good and evil are self-defining?  "What 
544 Hagbard> is good shall not be evil, but what is Evil, shall not be good."
545  
546      Of course.  Acceptance of morality is acceptance of the dichotomy.
547  
548 Hagbard> That is all YOU can be sure of - that "I think, therefore
549 Hagbard> I am", and that your view is simply a view, regardless of moral,
550 Hagbard> logical, or ethical values.  To say that good and evil are evident,
551 Hagbard> is accepting pre-defined values.  Start from the beginning 
552 Hagbard> (foundation) and work your way there, or start from here 
553 Hagbard> (acceptence of belief) an work your way back to the foundation.
554 Hagbard> But don't start from the middle and go both ways - unless you wish
555 Hagbard> to discuss mysticism, cults, religions, belief systems, cultures,
556  
557          I don't quite follow you.  I see acceptance of good and evil as
558      the foundation of morality.  If you mean to start in the logical 
559      foundation, I cannot think of a way to generate moral absolutes from 
560      logical ones.
561  
562 Snailhead> If it weren't for "evil", then "good" wouldn't look so good,
563 Snailhead> would it?
564  
565           Calling something "good" would be like ascribing it the 
566      quality of 'snervl,' which would be defineable only as 'nothing 
567      can be un-snervl.'  Without evil, good wouldn't look like anything.
568      If someone says that evil is good because good wouldn't be good 
569      without evil, he is confused.  He is using the concept of good and 
570      evil to judge good and evil.  His results are therefore meaningless.
571  
572 "If someone ever accused me of being a hypocrite, I think I just     _
573  would pretend it didn't bother me."                                /#)
574                -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts"             n   n   n (#/ 
575                                                         / ~~~ ~~~ \/
576 /*/*/*/*/*/*/* -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
025=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    08/08/89 16:00  Msg:4220 Call:23165  Lines:96
577 ...................................................
578 The individual seemed cordial indeed, presenting gifts and uttering what seemed
579 to be a friendly greeting.  The tongue sounded familiar, but she couldn't quite
580 place a meaning to the sounds.  She took the cylindrical container from the 
581 smiling stranger, and bowed.  She shook some of the powder onto her hand and
582 gingerly tasted it.  It was salt!  Vague snatches of memory began to present 
583 themselves, but she couldn't seem to get them to focus into anything definite.
584 As she began to throw the rest of the salt over her shoulder, as she had seen
585 the other do, words began to enter her head.  There was a warm familiarity to 
586 this ritual, altho....Yes, she thought, this is a stop she had made before, but
587 when?  And, "Where am I", she heard herself say outloud.  The one who called
588 itself "Friar" smiled.                                    
589 .....................................................
590                                                                                
591 696969696969                                                                   
592                 `DARK CIRCLE' FILM:  Judy Irving, documentary film maker, and B
593 vice president of Public Broadcasting Service's programming, talk with USA 
594 TODAY's Barbara Reynolds about the film "Dark Circle," which looks at the 
595 nuclear industry.
596  WHY HAS YOUR FILM `DARK CIRCLE' TAKEN SO LONG TO AIR?
597     IRVING: We tried about three times to get the show on PBS. First, they 
598 wanted us to cut it to an hour. Then they were concerned with a certain 
599 sequence that takes place at an arms convention where nuclear weapons are sold 
600 like boats are sold.
601  WHAT CONCERNED THEM ABOUT THE SEQUENCE?
602     IRVING: We named all the corporations that built the hydrogen bomb, and we 
603 included their slogans, too. That sequence was particularly troublesome to PBS.
604  WHY WAS IN TROUBLESOME TO PBS?
605     IRVING: General Electric, Rockwell International, and AT&T - companies 
606 that have built the hydrogen bomb - are also underwriters of PBS programming. 
607 So I would imagine that made them nervous, although they said the sequence was 
608 not germane.
609  YOU BELIEVE PBS WAS TRYING TO CENSOR YOUR FILM?
610     IRVING: Yes I do. Because it was accepted for national broadcast in 1985 
611 by PBS and then they unaccepted the film in the spring of '86. To me, that's 
612 censorship. The ostensible reason was that it was biased and one-sided and 
613 that it wasn't objective journalism.
614  HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THE CHARGES?
615     CHASE: It is doubly insulting to have a film maker make a charge like that 
616 and then to do so without any evidence. I maintain that a look at the evidence 
617 would show that when faced with direct objections by program underwriters, PBS 
618 does not bend or break.
619                            knuckle under maybe, but not bend or break.
620                                                                               
621                  OIL-RECYCLE PLANT ENDS IN FIGHT:-8/8/89
622     A $2 million oil recycling plant built in 1982 in Camden, N.J., has failed 
623 miserably, officials say, resulting in a costly legal battle between the city 
624 and the operator. The firm, Flowen Oils Delaware Valley Inc., is fighting the 
625 city about ownership of land and $100,000-plus in property taxes. Camden 
626 officials claim Flowen exploited the city and improperly filed for bankruptcy 
627 in Texas.
628 SPILL KILLS HUNDREDS OF EAGLES:-8/8/89
629     The Exxon oil spill apparently caused hundreds of bald eagles in Alaska to 
630 die or abandon their nests. Biologists say of 360 eagle nests, only 46 were 
631 active at the end of June. And Robert Mesta of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife 
632 Service says some nests were found abandoned, with dead, oil-covered sea birds 
633 in them.
634                                                                               
635                   CASH MISSING FROM COFFERS:-8/8/89
636     Up to 80 percent of the nation's cash is missing. The Federal Reserve says 
637 an average of $243 billion in hard cash is circulating outside U.S. banks. 
638 Another $27 billion is in vaults. But Fed statisticians can only account for 
639 the amount adults hold in their pockets, purses and piggy banks, or 14 percent 
640 of the $243 billion.
641     The Federal Reserve figures people in the underground economy - drug 
642 dealers, tax evaders and organized crime figures - hold 5 percent to 6 percent 
643 of the $243 billion in cash circulating outside U.S. banks. But nearly $200 
644 billion can't be found. Many experts believe the missing money has made its 
645 way, legally or illegally, into foreign lands.
646     The U.S. dollar is used as currency in underground economies in Poland, 
647 Southeast Asia and other areas. It gets there through different means, 
648 including crime and bank transfers. U.S. banks in New York, Miami and Los 
649 Angeles routinely ship hard cash overseas. Citizens in South Africa, Central 
650 America and other hot spots hoard dollars because the money is easily carried.
651     If foreigners are holding most of the U.S. cash, the nation could gain 
652 from it because it amounts to an interest-free loan, says Robert Avery, a 
653 financial expert at Cornell University. But that means the nation owes even 
654 more to foreigners than statistics show. It's great as long as they hold it, 
655 says the Fed's Paul Spindt.
656                                                                                
657                  BUSH KEEPS QUIET ON HOSTAGES:-8/8/89
658     The White House went quiet Monday in hopes underground diplomacy can help 
659 free eight U.S. hostages held in Lebanon. White House press secretary Marlin 
660 Fitzwater likened diplomatic efforts for the hostages to activity in a bazaar. 
661 "There are a lot of ideas being floated, a lot of exchanges being made, but 
6&2 it's primarily a matter of talking and listening and not signaling your 
663 moves," he said.            
664 WARSHIPS STILL OF LEBANON:
665     President Bush continued to apply behind-the-scenes pressure to Syria and 
666 Iran and kept 30 ships and 20,000 sailors of the U.S. Navy's Sixth Fleet in 
667 the Mediterranean off Lebanon, prepared for what Fitzwater called "every 
668 scenario."
669                               Welcome to the next war...oops...scenario, I mean
670                                                                                
671 696969696969696969
672                                                                               
026=Usr:352 Katie Kolbet      08/08/89 19:25  Msg:4221 Call:23168  Lines:26
673 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
674 IF there was anything she enjoyed, it was a good book.  Finding one often
675 became a difficult task, but on such a gloomy and rainy August day, she 
676 managed to pick out some obscure sf/fantasy story.  Searching the house
677 for a quiet niche in which to cuddle up, she encountered a small golden
678 crown.  Curious as to where it had come from and even more curious as to
679 why it was there, she placed it upon her head.  Strangely enough, it 
680 was a  perfect fit.  The crown was more of a single gold band with a
681 small jewel, probably a sapphire, hanging down upon her forehead.  she
682 almost felt it become part of her.  Thinking nothing else, she opened the
683 book.
684    "....a half-consumed dark amber...
685    She heard a noise and looked up.  Almost as if the entire seen was real, she
686 could see it before her.  Not quite understanding why, she set the book down,
687 and reached out to the table.  The wood was rough beneath her hand.  SHe 
688 placed her weight on it and stood.  A man, and a girl of some age sat before
689 her, yet she wasn't quite sure.  No one had stepped into a story before.
690    The jewel seemed to glow with warmth, and she raised her hand to feel it.
691 The heat intensified, then suddenly disappeared altogether.  She whirled
692 around to find her own way home, only to find it gone.  Rather disturbed,
693 yet beyond curiousity to what adventures might lie ahead, she turned around
694 once more only to note that her jeans and sweatshirt had become a blue
695 dress and grey cape rather resembling a style which only existed in the
696 Middle ages.  Shaken, she eyed the man........
697  
698 ++++++Kaitlyn++++++++++++
027=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    08/09/89 19:22  Msg:4222 Call:23190  Lines:100
699 6969696969
700                            TOPIC - TEACHING CREATIONISM IN SCIENCE CLASSES:
701     Gordon Lewis, chairperson of the philosophy of religion department at 
702 Denver Seminary, and Bill Honig, superintendent of public instruction for the 
703 state of California, talk with USA TODAY's Mary-Ann Bendel about teaching 
704 creationism in science classes.
705  IF STATES AGREED TO TEACH CREATIONISM, WHAT WOULD BE TAUGHT?
706     LEWIS: The doctrine of creationism is the belief that everything has 
707 originated from a living God over a one-week period of creation. God, by 
708 supernatural choice, decided to create each kind of animal and plant, and he 
709 did so in about 10,000 B.C.
710  WHAT IS YOUR VIEW ON TEACHING CREATIONISM?
711     LEWIS: I believe the view of Christianity has been censored from the 
712 textbooks in our public schools, and there are books documenting that it was 
713 done in the name of academic freedom. Society is being defrauded.
714  WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON THE EFFORT TO INCLUDE CREATIONISM?
715     HONIG: Creationism, by our state board policy, is not science and so 
716 should not be taught as part of the science class. The questions of who we 
717 are, origins, why we're here, the broader purposes, and those religious ideas 
718 should be talked about, not in a doctrinaire or sectarian way, but should be 
719 addressed as ethics, morals, and religious issues, but not in science.
720  IS IT POSSIBLE TO RECONCILE RELIGION AND EVOLUTION?
721     HONIG: Many religious bodies came before our board and said, "We have no 
722 problem with evolution. That could be God's way. That's the method God could 
723 have chosen. It fits together. It makes sense. There's some beauty to it. It's 
724 an aesthetically interesting way of happening."
725 PTL'S BAKKER IN DEEP TROUBLE:-8/9/89
726     Ex-PTL President Richard Dortch agreed Tuesday to testify at the trial of 
727 his ex-boss, Jim Bakker - "nailing the coffin" for anything but prison for 
728 Bakker, experts say. Bakker and Dortch were to go to trial Aug. 28 in 
729 Charlotte, N.C., on charges of bilking PTL donors of up to $4 million. Dortch 
730 will be sentenced within three weeks, facing up to 10 years in jail and a 
731 $500,000 fine.
732                         The mysterious ways in which God works Its wonders...
733                                                                             
734                    U.S. CATASTROPHES SET RECORD:-8/9/89
735     Natural catastrophes in the second quarter of 1989 produced the greatest 
736 amount of insured property damage in the United States of any similar period 
737 on record, says the American Insurance Services Group, Inc. Catastrophes 
738 resulted in $1.25 billion of insured loss in the quarter, pushing anticipated 
739 property damage claims to $1.41 billion for the first six months of 1989.
740 INSURANCE FRAUD ON UPSWING:-8/9/89
741     Staged auto accidents and phony medical bills, the most common schemes 
742 used to defraud the insurance industry, have increased more than 71 percent 
743 between 1989 and 1989, according to the Insurance Information Institute. They 
744 account for nearly one-half of the more than 6,500 claims valued at more than 
745 $700 million that were referred to the Insurance Crime Prevention Institute in 
746 1988.
747                                                                                
748                     HOMELESS LAW UNDERMINED:-8/9/89
749     A federal law designed to help the homeless is being undermined by poor 
750 communications and little emphasis on ways to keep people from becoming 
751 homeless, according to a Rutgers University study released Tuesday. Study co-
752 author David Schwartz says 40 percent of the nation's homeless could be aided 
753 by programs that help with rent payments or otherwise intercede in preventing 
754 evictions.
755     Up to 14 million U.S. citizens could be out on the streets in even a minor 
756 recession, warns a study by the Rutgers University's American Housing 
757 Institute. Current number of homeless: Up to 4 million, and growing by up to 
758 40 percent annually. An economic dip could double or triple that number 
759 overnight with those now living one pay check or one domestic argument from 
760 the streets.
761 SCIENTISTS TALLY WILDERNESS:-8/9/89
762     About a third of the Earth's land mass remains wild, devoid of all manmade 
763 landmarks, two Sierra Club scientists said recently. Science News reports in 
764 its Aug. 5 issue that the two found 18.56 million acres could be classified as 
765 wilderness. Antarctica, which is total wilderness, leads the list. Next was 
766 North America, which is 37.5 percent wilderness.
767 7.5 PERCENT DON'T HAVE PHONES:-8/9/89
768     About 7.5 percent of U.S. homes don't have telephones, the National 
769 Telephone Cooperative Association said recently. Areas with the highest 
770 percentage of phone-free homes are the South and West, where about 9 percent 
771 of homes don't have the service. The Washington, D.C.-based NTCA said people 
772 in rural areas and the poorest parts of the inner-city often went without 
773 phone service.
774                                                                               
775                       BUSH SPEAKS SOFTLY ON CONTRAS:-8/9/89
776     The Bush administration, in a carefully worded statement, expressed 
777 general support Tuesday for the Central American agreement to break up the 
778 Nicaraguan Contras by Dec. 5. Word of the pact, signed Monday by five Central 
779 American presidents, forced the administration into the position of supporting 
780 an accord it lobbied against or breaking a signed Contra aid agreement with 
781 Congress.
782 CALERO SAYS PACT MEANS NOTHING:
783     Contra leader Adolfo Calero says the pact to disband his fighters is "not 
784 binding," and vows to continue the struggle against Nicaragua's Sandanistas. 
785 "We are not obliged to it," Calero said Tuesday at the Miami headquarters of 
786 the Nicaraguan Resistance. Calero said about 12,000 Contras were in camps in 
787 southern Honduras and 3,000 are inside Nicaragua.
788 TOPIC - ENDING THE CONTRAS:
789     Frances T. Farenthold, chairperson of the Institute for Policy Studies, 
790 and Jesse Hill Ford, novelist and screenwriter, discuss their views.
791     FARENTHOLD: As we look back on the past 10 years of U.S. policy, we see 
792 failure, waste and untold human suffering. What is needed is a rigorous re-
793 examination and re-evaluation of the mind-set and techniques of the national 
794 security state. Nothing less will bring peace to Central America. Nothing less 
795 will introduce U.S. foreign policy to the political realities of today and 
796 tomorrow.
797                                                                             
798 696969696969696969
028=Usr:498 Hagbard Celine ,  08/10/89 02:09  Msg:4223 Call:23201  Lines:57
799  
800 {}
801  
802 (swob) "You say you operate within the 'current' version of your
803         own reality.  What was the reason you changed from your
804         previous versions of reality?"
805  
806    I think that the word "current" is used strictly as a time reference
807 and not a state of being.  That is, the word is used with the concept of
808 a moving frame of reference (time).
809  
810 (swob) "A person may of course decide upon either one based upon his best
811         information.  But surely only one can be correct."
812  
813    To assume a dicotomy (sp), is to assume a defined state of being.
814 Your viewpoint would be exclusively encompassing.  Only within the
815 limited confines of views and beliefs will you be able to exactly say
816 "this is correct/true/right.  That is not."  But this excludes the
817 possibility of other views (ie, you have eliminated any other reality,
818 alternate, parallel, or fictional) which, within that belief system,
819 might have a DIFFERENT answer or a SIMILAR answer.  Because that "other"
820 belief system runs on a different axiom set, that also makes the
821 "alternate answer" (ie, the one you reject) potentially correct.  In
822 fact, it could make it exactly correct.  But which is the correct answer?
823 You must choose your perspective first (lay out the assumptions to
824 be used in your logic/morals) BEFORE you can arrive at a tenative
825 conclusion.  An incorrect perspective would make your answer false,
826 but you can't really show that either perspective is correct to
827 begin with.  So, you really are reduced to "I think, ergo, I Am",
828 because your conscienceness implies that you must exist first before
829 you can arrive at that conclusion.  You are left with a multitude of
830 choices; personally I feel that a compromise would best serve
831 this.  You have to assume ALL views before you can be truely
832 correct.  Yes, that is all-encompasing and broad, but it's the
833 only way I'm aware of to compensate for this situation.  Funny
834 thought: I'm using logic in an attempt to describe itself.
835 Redundant, isn't it?;->)
836  
837 (swob) "I think that logic is quite robust, actually.  Paradoxes are
838         nonsense in that they are not logical.  "This sentence is
839         false" does not attack the foundation of logic unless part
840         of that foundation is that all sentences are logically
841         coherent."
842  
843    Paradoxes ARE logical.  But the logic system you must be using
844 seems to be binary.  
845    There are at least FOUR answers: it is true, it is false, it is
846 BOTH, it is NONE.  The fifth: it doesn't matter (actually appling
847 (sp) applying non-logic and chaos).  Ponder this, and other multi-
848 answer logic systems, and you might understand why views are never
849 always correct (as above).  Any of those five answers can be used
850 to justify a viewpoint.
851  
852    A tired Hagbard Celine (2:32 am)
853  
854 {}
855  
029=Usr:219 Friar Mossback    08/10/89 09:29  Msg:4224 Call:23203  Lines:24
856 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
857 The woman in front of me (I could now see that she was human in appearance
858 and a female, and quite pleasant to look at.) seemed a bit confused or maybe
859 stunned.  She at least knew of the universal peace greeting, or at least
860 was intelligent enough to mimic it.  I suspected an education here, not just
861 mimicry.  Who was this person.
862 "Where am I?" she spoke.  A melodious voice that I am sure was given much 
863 to laughter, and to tears.
864 "You are among friends here.  All who come here are friends, until they prove
865 otherwise.  Come, let us be comfortable.  I have food and drink.  Some of the
866 sandwiches are meat, and I apologize if that offends you, for I am an
867 omnivore, but I would eat only vegetables in your presence, if you wish."
868 She sat, not saying anything, but removed her outer cloak.  She was indeed
869 pleasant to look at, but it was her manner which was most striking.  This 
870 was a woman of high station, but not haughty.  She cared deeply about 
871 something.  This must be why she was here.
872 "Tell me, why have you come?  No one arrives here without a reason."
873 She looked at me, and I saw fright behind the eyes for just a moment, then 
874 she looked away and began to speak.
875 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   Friar    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
876  
877 PS.  Archivers- Any news on costs of the archives?
878 [][][][][][][]   F.
879  
030=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    08/10/89 14:29  Msg:4225 Call:23207  Lines:43
880 .....................................
881 She was surprised to hear her own voice.  She was also surprised that she 
882 understood what the individual was saying.  It wasn't easy to follow, "must
883 be an ancient dialect" she thought to herself.  As the friendly individual 
884 to talk of food, she realized she was famished.  Her body told her that it
885 had been quite some time since she had last eaten, but she still could recall
886 nothing beyond the last several seconds.  "Best be cautious"  she remembered
887 her father telling her, at least she thought it was her father.  Why was her
888 memory gone?  What was she doing here?  "Tell me, why have you come?  No one
889 arrives without a reason" she heard, and it snapped her out of her thoughts.
890 She looked at this one calling itself Friar.  His face not only looked friendly
891 but familiar as well.  "I am not sure..." her shaky voice began.  "I am having
892 trouble remembering anything,  I don't know who I am or how I got here.  You
893 look familiar somehow, have we by chance met before?  Do you know who I am?"
894 Now she had done it.  Admitted she was vulnerable.  Something stirred deep
895 inside her that she recognized as fear.  There was an image beginning to form
896 in her consciousness that blocked out the reality in front of her.  For the
897 moment she could only see the ruins, the gray and black charcoal sketches of
898 a run-down city.  Among the twisted architecture she was aware of creatures 
899 moving, furtively, from place to place.  Like a slow dissolve in a film, the
900 scene changed to what must be a palace or grand building of some sort.  She saw
901 herself standing before a large icon, but she couldn't bring the image into 
902 focus.  Just as she realized this, the other brought her our of the reverie:
903 "You know, you DO look familiar to me as well, altho I can't say that I
904 remember you.  Perhaps a little food will help your mind settle.  Others that
905 have been thru here have sometimes found the materialization a bit, well,  
906 unsettling."  She began to feel more comfortable with the individual and tried
907 the food he offered. She usually didn't eat flesh, but she was so hungry she
908 actually enjoyed it.  And another.  As she ate, she felt as if her whole being
909 was being made more solid somehow.  With each bite she seemed to have a little
910 more of her memory back.  By the time she had finished the plate of sandwiches
911 (every single crumb), she almost knew who she was.  She felt so close to it, 
912 just like when you say something is on the tip of your tongue, it's there, I
913 know it, but ....  She drank the liquid in front of her, looked at Friar, and
914 said, "Thanks.  That helped quite a bit."   She felt much better about the
915 stranger now.  He had sat quietly while she ate.  Not staring at her, but 
916 obviously interested in her.  "Tell me about yourself," she said.  "Perhaps
917 we can find a commonality that will help me reconstruct myself.  Maybe we'll
918 learn that we did, or will, meet at another time or place."  She was gaining
919 confidence as she began to realize who she was, and why she was here.  He
920 looked at her, seemed to consider her request, then began to speak in slow,
921 carefully chosen words.                                                      
922 ................................................
031=Usr:367 Mark Derby        08/10/89 23:40  Msg:4226 Call:23223  Lines:9
923 L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_snailhead_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_
924 re _Dark Circle_:  When I saw the scene in which they listed the corporations
925 making the most profit from the building of nuclear weapons, I immediately
926 thought, "This is why it didn't get on the air."  I also noticed that it was
927 one of the few PBS shows that didn't garner any big corporate sponsors,
928 whether defense contractors or not...
929  
930 L_L_L_L_"and the shorter of the porter's daughters
931             dips a hand in the deadly waters..."L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_
032=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  08/11/89 13:53  Msg:4227 Call:23233  Lines:9
932 &*&*&*&*'s
933 Just looking in. I'll be gone for the weekend, so don't you probably won't here
934 from me again untill monday.
935  
936 Happy disking!
937  
938 An Astral Dreamer
939 &*&*&*&*'s
940  
033=Usr:219 Friar Mossback    08/11/89 19:52  Msg:4228 Call:23236  Lines:31
941 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
942 She was obviously scared.  And as I waited, I found she was also quite hungry,
943 cleaning off the plate quite well.  I sat and waited, not wanting to stare,
944 but wanting to know more about her.
945 She asked me to tell her about myself, to see if that might jar her memory
946 of where we had seen each other before.
947 I began, not quite knowing where I should begin, but beginning just the same.
948 "I am Friar Mossback, a friar of the Agnosti.  I seek only knowing and 
949 learning.  I eschew standard religion, but find truth where it is.  That is
950 why I am called Friar.
951 "Special talents I have few.  I have a gift for eating, as you can see, and
952 a friendly mage with a set of bagpipes once found for me this handy sporran
953 that always has a feast inside.
954 Saying that, I opened the bag up and spread a new meal in front of the lady.
955 She gasped with surprise, and I chuckled to myself.  This is a common
956 phenomenon when people first saw the magic.  I wondered why only I could make
957 the magic work as I was sitting back down.  I glanced at the table and it was
958 my turn to gasp.  This time the sporran had set two actual place settings, 
959 with lit candles and silverware.  Real china, and steaming bowls of vegetables
960 and meats.
961 The last time this had happened was just before the dangerous time occured.
962 Before the blackness.  Something was coming, that could be glorious, or deadly.
963 And this woman was to be a key to it.
964 Would she be a friend or a foe?  A lover or a murderer.  I should watch very   
965 closely, for either one is not something to be missed.
966 Feigning lightness, I said, "Quite a spread, eh?  The magic only works this
967 well when it is inspired by beauty.  It's never done it for me, so it must be
968 a comment on your beauty."
969 So saying, I took the flagon of B&B offered by the barkeep (the drinks *never*
970 seem to come out of the magic bag) and poured two small goblets.
971 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   Friar    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
034=Usr:4 Milchar           08/11/89 22:39  Msg:4229 Call:23242  Lines:4
972 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
973 CM?  Care to answer Friar?  I don't remember what the Archives go for
974 nowadays...  A rough guess would do, I suppose.
975 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milchar ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
035=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill     08/12/89 21:55  Msg:4230 Call:23257  Lines:24
976 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
977 Well, I guess I'd better fill these last few lines since I've got a 
978 reply that won't fit.  24 lines, eh?
979  
980 Guess I should think of something meaningful to say...naah.
981  
982 let's just see how big a quote I can cram in here...
983  
984 "If I lived in the Wild West days, instead of carrying a six-gun in
985  my holster, I'd carry a soldering iron.  That way, if some smart-
986  aleck cowboy said something like 'Hey, look.  He's carrying a 
987  soldering iron!' and started laughing, and everybody else started
988  laughing, I could just say, 'That's right, it's a soldering iron.
989  The soldering iron of justice.'
990       Then everybody would get real quiet and ashamed because they 
991  made fun of the soldering iron of justice, and probably I could     _
992  hit them up for a free drink."                                     /#)
993                -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts"             n   n   n (#/ 
994                                                        / ~~~ ~~~ \/
995 */*/*/*/*/*/*/ -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
996  
997 *I'm on the bottom!  I'm on the bottom!   NYaaaaaaaah!
998  
999 */*/*/*/*/*/  |  :::::::O O::: no, I am! :::::::O O:::::
