From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What does it?  
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:50:51
Message Number 12701

T> what are all the rest? 
Patent Applied For - except we all know that the US patent office 
refuses to patent ANY perpetual motion machine - so I hereby donate my
Perpetual Maytag Motion Machine concept to the public domain.  You rig
it exactly the same as the communicators  with the added benefit that 
you can still use them for that purpose - and you start one up.  When 
the string gets wrapped so tight that it causes it to stop the unwinding
action will start the other one.  Since we know all about the superior
operating lifetime for these units we have in essence a perpetual motion
machine.
                        An Inventive JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Helicopters    
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:55:26
Message Number 12702

T> most people assume any affectionate physical contact between
T> a man and a woman is inherently sexual in nature.
 
Righto!  You wouldn't bel;ieve how many married women that I'm supposed
to be having affairs with at work.  My buddy Kim happens to be a very
good-looking young blonde.  We happen to like each other a lot and go
out together for lunches, dinner, bowling, movies etc etc WITH the 
blessings of her husband Jeff.  We give each other hugs a lot because
we genuinely care a lot about each other.
As you can imagine tho... everyone else tries to drag a beautiful 
personal relationship into the mud.  Good thing we don't care.
 
                             JonBoy
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 23:08:14
Message Number 12703

JB>Hug anyone that is dear to me and f*ck anyone that feels it isn't
manyly. 
Amen, JB. Nothing makes ya feel better than a hug. When I meet someone 
that touches my arm when talking to me and doesn't hesitate to hug 
goodbye or hello, it makes me feel warm. So many people misinterpret it,
though. I tend to call people "Darlin'", it's gotten me in trouble more
than once. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 23:14:22
Message Number 12704

After reading about the "gay bob" doll, I'm sure he's laughing to hard 
to find his bayonet. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/24/91 23:15:52
Message Number 12705

Ah, but what word described the guy that's in love with himself..... 
Besides a "jerk", that is?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Bill Bixie Cat 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 23:20:24
Message Number 12707

I like it! I like it! You should add to every post..... that would drive
c] with BUSH) yet you will talk all day
>about your rights.  Well, someone hadda die to get those rights
>secured for you.
     
   Several questions for you:
   1. What does fighting for a monarchic government that has NO equiv-
      alent to our Bill of Rights (theirs was cancelled in 1985, I
      believe...) have to do with saving our rights? I've never seen a
      connection.
   2. When did I (as a person) agree to those rules? I never agreed to
      fight for the U.S, so far as I know.
   
   I've lived in another country, and I've spent time in many other
countries. Not one of them has the religion of "rallying around the 
flag" that the U.S. seems to. Several may rally around a charismatic 
leader. Many are drawn into patriotism through their religion. But
none have made the State into a religion.
            /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Freakish fears 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 10:13:21
Message Number 12409

>The film procedes with animated hamburgers.
    
   Were they sentient hamburgers?
         /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Give it a Rest 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 10:18:28
Message Number 12410

>Gawd! Enough of this serious stuff, already!!!
    
   It pops up here more than occasionally.
    
   I'd say it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to tell what a person's sexual pref-
erences are from how they act. Psyche has a rather high-pitched voice
for a male, yet he's completely hetero. There's a whole bunch of
Spaniards who lisp (speaking Castilian), but most are hetero.
   There's a California furry who has two (I believe) black belts, and
is bisexual.  Another of my friends was a power-lifter (used to work
moving whole kegs of beer) and was bi. You simply can't tell.
              /Dragonfly/
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Fav shows      
Date & Time: 02/21/91 12:06:42
Message Number 12411

Me neither (either, ah, back to grammar school!!). I found something in
all of them that interested me. But there are some I can watch again and
again, and then there's some I've had enough of. I think it's kind of 
strange that they (meaning the syndication) seem to show the same ones
over and over. For instance, they might air one episode 3 times and 
never air another episode. Maybe that wasn't the way to put it (tongue
tied today). What I mean to say is that they don't just air the 3 season
consecutively. Know what I mean? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Rule in heaven 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 12:14:37
Message Number 12412

Yeah, I liked that one too. Montebon (ah, whatever his name is) was 
excellent in that role. Good thing Shatner didn't write that script, 
though. They would have both spent the entire movie quoting and 
launching into 5 minute speeches!!!!
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 12:17:05
Message Number 12413

I truly know what you mean. It's the same with men. That's why so many 
people are still single at 30 or older. It's like people are afraid to 
be themselves. Maybe it boils down to insecurities from childhood. I 
dunno. I can't tolerate phonies either and you can usually spot them 
right away.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Same old situat
Date & Time: 02/21/91 12:23:35
Message Number 12414

And a message, don't forget, it's actually got a message. I think 
people tend to hear the music and the beat without listening to the 
lyrics.......... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Thank you      
Date & Time: 02/21/91 12:26:02
Message Number 12415

I'd like to thank all the people who made it possible, (clearing my 
throat and launching into a 18 minute speech). What an honor!!
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 12:30:08
Message Number 12416

And next point, you shouldn't care. Am I right? I don't care if a 
friend of mine (male or female) likes girls or boys. It's none of my
business. Sexual pref. is a private thing. I know that if I were a 
lesbian, I certainly would be afraid to admit it just because of all
the biased people in this world. Somethings wrong here. In a time when
honesty and self respect are needed, they're being discouraged. No 
wonder the phych. hospitals are full. "excuse my spelling, it's the 
pits". 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: *********      
Date & Time: 02/21/91 16:29:11
Message Number 12417

Actually I'm very good at Wheel of Fortune, but you've /still/ got me 
totally stumped.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Give it a Rest 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 16:34:35
Message Number 12418

I sure hope none of your friends mind you revealing there sexual 
preferences on the board.  Especially your body-builder friend. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Fav shows      
Date & Time: 02/21/91 16:36:23
Message Number 12419

SA>...For instance, they might air one episode 3 times and never air 
SA> another episode.....
  
Yeah, I've noticed that too. Usually I can identify a show within about
five to ten seconds, but occasionally I'll be stumped. Simply because 
I've seen almost all of them five or six times, while others almost have
me convinced that I might have missed one.  They should give all the 
episodes equal air time.  You know what I'd like to see, a network air 
every Star Trek episode in sequential order.  Whether it was 
back-to-back or over a period of months. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 16:43:03
Message Number 12420

Yep, I can shot them coming a mile away. (to steal a phrase you used)
I'm 23, and unattached. Personally, I don't like it. As dumb as it may 
sound, when I was little I always figured I would be married by the time
I was twenty. I've been engaged twice.  Screwed over both times.  I'm
glad that didn't married either one of them.  I would like to meet 
someone who's true-to-life.  Do you have any suggestions as to where I 
can find this rare breed?  I mean, just try to meet someone, for 
instance, in a night club.  Clubs, now a days, are virtual meat-markets,
nothing more.  
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Thank you      
Date & Time: 02/21/91 16:50:49
Message Number 12421

SA> I'd like to thank all the people who made it possible, (clearing my
SA> throat and launching into a 18 minute speech).  What an honor!!
   
Go ahead......Just don't post it.  heheheheh :)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 16:53:48
Message Number 12422

SA>....In a time when honesty and self respect are needed, they're being
SA> discouraged...
  
I wonder if that's why soooo many people are phony?  Sounds logical to 
me.  
  
SA> ..No wonder the psychiatric hospitals are full. 
   
I hear ya, I played counselor to a lot of my friends in high school, and
still do with some people today. 
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Freakish fears 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 17:19:28
Message Number 12423

R>The film procedes with animated hamburgers.
D>  Were they sentient hamburgers?
 
I really don't remember.  Another fun thing about personal torture
was when we had our 20 minute lunch break a bunch of us would go
to the 7-11, buy loads of junk food and return.  The lectures almost
always involved half the food you saw when you looked around.  "Twinkies
are bad for you" you
[STUPID QUOTE KEY] would hear as you sucked the creamy white 
preservatives out of the middle.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Nuke the networ
Date & Time: 02/21/91 18:22:14
Message Number 12425

I agree completely about airing the shows in sequence. Not just ST but 
all the reruns. I don't understand why they can't do it. It makes sense,
(sigh) well, heaven forbid they do anything that makes sense. I know 
what you mean about getting stumped occasionally on a St episode. 
Sometimes it takes me 10 minutes in to recognize the show, usually it's
something like a certain phrase that tips me off (I'm into diologue). 
They haven't aired the Trouble with Tribbles lately and to me, that was
one of the funniest ones. It beat I, Mudd all to #$%%^. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/21/91 18:26:43
Message Number 12426

Yeah, the clubs are a trip! I go just to "people watch". I have a lot 
of male friends who echo what you are saying. It seems harder and harder
to make 'good' friends these days. And the only way to have a lasting 
relationship is to be 'best friends' with your partner...., it takes 
time. When I was younger, I used to think it was the guys who played 
all the stupid mind games, now I know better......, I've seen too 
many really nice guys get their minds worked over by their girlfriends. 
You wouldn't be interested in any of the women I know, they are either 
married, or as plastic as a barbie doll (with about as much personality)
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: 18 minute speec
Date & Time: 02/21/91 18:31:15
Message Number 12427

Had ya worried? Don't...... I couldn't come up with a single intelligent
thought that would last for 18 minutes..... but then, neither do the 
award winners at the grammies. "Yo, I'd like to thank all the little 
people who served me so well in my sprint to genius. Without them it
would have taken me at least another month to win this. Chow, babies." 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Shrinks R Us   
Date & Time: 02/21/91 18:34:04
Message Number 12428

Same here. People just seem to know they can talk to me about, well, 
just about anything. It's all in the way you listen. Most people don't 
really want advise, they just want to release the pressure and bounce 
their problems off a sympathetic ear. They just need a pat on the back 
or a kick in the ass. 
===========

From: TIBERIUS            
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/21/91 19:05:53
Message Number 12429

>It's all in the body language
  
Yes, but languages seemed to be my worst subject. I get one idea, and 
they are saying something completely different.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: New Topic      
Date & Time: 02/21/91 19:59:33
Message Number 12430

SS> least my handle isn't identical to a fag-ish character on the Walton
 
My my... ever heard of attacking the thought and not the speaker? Hmmm?
I happen to be rather proud of ALL my nom de plumes and "handles" as
they were given to me by people that I cared for and reciprocated.  The
fact that not only did you attack Turtle's method of scraping by in
the world financially, now you stoop to attacking my nom de guerre.
Pitiful.  It is a shame (and I lament this daily with my peers) that 
there are people in this world that cannot defend themselves except in
underhanded fashion.  I will admit that you do seem better prepared to
deal with those cold little numbers rather than warm-hearted people.
Please don't bother to retaliate as I have better things to do and far
better people to share these things with.  Good day sir.
			                                --==>JonBoy<==--
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:05:37
Message Number 12431

SS> Sounds like a gay bar to me. 
 
On second thought - maybe you are a repressed homosexual in search of 
himself.  You do seem to see the topic wherever you look.  Maybe AJ
can help you there - nahhh he hangs around respectable people...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: St             
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:09:24
Message Number 12432

S> ('nuff  said about age) 
Yah!  Me too!  'Cept I don't really let it bother me.  I'm really glad
to have been semi-cognizant of the late 60's.  I have wondered many
times if ST was more a product of the era than given credit for.
S> But above all, do not break the Prime Directive!!!!
They were pretty loose with the concept of the Prime Directive on more
than one show.  I wish that the technology would have been good enough
to allow better and more robots with an exploration of Asimov's LAws
of Robotics.
S> He often launched into poetic speeches (very shaksperian...
Often? You mean like the conclusion of every show? (snigger)  I actually
used to LOVE those gunky speeches and really used to take them to heart.
I guess Kirk was a real hero figure to me - there were precious few of
them at that time with rock-n-roll stars starting to gain the position
of adulation that has now reached silly proportions.  Nope - not many 
heroes for kids and Nixon really polished off the idea of our leaders
being worth emulating.
		                                       JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Easy, dude     
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:16:27
Message Number 12433

S> Now, boys, let's not fight here.
<behind her back in direction of The Boy of Steel> Braaaacccckkkkkkk!
o o
 >
 U
                       (a-sometimes-rude-and-slightly-intolerant) JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:20:34
Message Number 12434

T> guess she wanted to share thi particular inability...grr...
 
Now now - you should be honored to hold such a trusted position.  I was
just wondering - I rather liked her ability to be the supreme cold bitch
with some of the upstarts and showboaters.  A rare talent that was 
by large unappreciated.
 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: St             
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:23:26
Message Number 12435

T> Better than the new one, no. Well-acted, no.  
 
Ummmm - when I first started watching the STNG, I was appalled at the
terrible acting and really weak story lines that were blatantly lifted
from the old series.  The captain was SO stilted and hard-assed that
I wondered why theye didn't slit his throat and the brat was almost as
bad.  They have improved I am happy to say and now have settled into 
their roles where they finally act like real people.  I worried the
first year tho...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: st             
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:28:42
Message Number 12436

S> But I like it.
A very nice bottom line that I'll stand behind too!
S> But you know what they say about opinions.....  
You will learn that you should _not_ leave yourself open like that here!
I call them denizens with a lot of love but some reality thrown in.
You really have to watch Max (he's sneaky and has a very dry bite).
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:33:56
Message Number 12437

SS> I don't think any country  ... could beat Hussien.
 
So what? This has as much oomph as "my old man can whip your old man".
It is a childish argument and does not merit an actual battle with lives
lost.  We have our nose in someone else business.  In my opinion, we are
over there for economic reasons and thus have sunk to the state that we
have finally placed a price on human life.  Sorry - I ain't having no
part of it.  I served 8 years in the service and would die _for my
country_ but I will be damned if I _sell_ my ideals on the international
block of oil cartels and industrialism.
 
                                --==>* JonBoy *<==--
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:38:28
Message Number 12438

TS> Oh, please.  Come off it. 
C'mon Dave - or I'll take back my nice guy award.  Maybe you take my
wording at some other value.  Maybe I should spell out my metaphors
so that you can grasp them more readily.  Icing is a superficially
sweet condiment that is very thin and insubstantial to the bulk of
the final product.  Got me so far? Or are you too busy trying to look
self-righteous.  The yummy cake part refers to the idea that this in
fact is the bulk of the product and is what is actually the most filling
ie the part that isn't readily visible and covered by a thin veneer of
what we arbitrarily call "beauty".  You are dead wrong about the
curiosity - I would like to meet many of the people on the board so I 
can attach a face to a string of ASCII text representing the "soul" of
that person as I have gotten to know them second hand.  "What" they
look like as far as a silly concept of beauty and other equally 
repugnant (to me) biases such as sexual persuasion - has absolutely
no place in MY life.  If someone is pleasing to the eye - then that
really is icing on the cake if they are pleasant, respectful of others,
and intelligent enough to carry on a coherent conversation.  
Now - hey! I can leer with the best of them under the proper circum-
stances - like when it is a very impersonal thing directed towards 
some gal that is dressed sharp, looks great and is out to show the
world.  I ain't saying I'm dead and my hormones don't work.  But I am
saying that "looks" are not what I look at or even consider when it
comes to building ANY kind of relationship.  I didn't give two hoots in
hades about anything when we had our dinner awhile back.  I didn't have
any conceptions about age, fanaticism (on several topics) or what have 
you.  I still happen to think that fundamentally you are a nice guy
but you just don't think, and you really need to open up the empathy
part of your psyche a bit - in short - grow up Dave.
	                              A-long-winded- JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/21/91 20:55:15
Message Number 12439

TS> Well, someone hadda die to get those  rights secured for you.
 
Tell ya what Dave - you spell out what rights that we are gaining and
I'll agree that it's a necessary fight.  Sigghhhh pacifism is not the
same as cowaridice and sometimes (sometimes!) takes more courage.
Taking another human life for the simple reason that it belongs to 
"another side" that simply threatens supply of a certain crude 
mineral deposit when we have plenty here - just turns my guts Dave.
I mean like makes me want to puke.  As far as your heroic war of
1776 goes - maybe France, Germany Denmark and all the other powers
should have come to Britains aid with the rebellious little upstart.
Now granted - our motives were a little different that the demented
little bastard in Iraq, but the point is [MINDING YOUR OWN BUSINESS!]
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Self-improvemen
Date & Time: 02/21/91 21:14:39
Message Number 12440

TS> You look forward thepain because you know ..
You gotta be shitting me!  I lift three times daily and I dread the
pain!  It _is_ necessary to a degree tho... deliberate overstressing
of the muscle creates an adaptive stress response - BUT that is if
you are after bulk (body building)  it is also necessary to vary such
activity with some sort of aerobic exercise so that the effeciency of
the cells is increased.  This is so that lactic acid concentrations can 
be avoided.  If you do not build up the efficiency then weights can 
cause muscle deterioation from lactic acid concentrations - the cells
simply can't flush themselves fast enough.  Also keep in mind that as
far as metabolizing fat cells - the body breaks down the tissue 50-50.
You also lose muscle mass at the same time as fat so you have to make
sure that you are eating properly to avoid stuff like ketosis.  
As far as aerobic exercise - I like raquetball - I HATE running but
swimming and fast walking are excellent.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 21:29:46
Message Number 12441

Phonies - hmmm yup there's a bunch of them out there but since they are
so easy to spot - not much of a bother.  I really hate the sorriest
of the lot - the "sophisticate".  The ones that right off the bat ask
what you drive and look at your clothes to see if they're "label".  Bah!
The second worst are the ones that come on as really decent humans and
then after you start getting into the swing - they decide that there
are things that need to be changed.  I just got over one of those -
she decided that I really should start liking Chinese food best and stop
drinking sodas because they'll rot my guts.  Sheesh!  Maybe she should
call up the source and custom order one next time.  There are many other
variations to toads and toadettes - I guess ya just have to weed them 
out. So far my resolve to remain a bachelor (after 2 disasters) has
remained firm.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 21:39:01
Message Number 12442

SS>  Do you have any suggestions as to where I can find this rare breed?
 
You ought to see the really neat gals that hang out at the tennis courts
and the raquetball courts.  Of course - there are a few exceptions
but I have met lots of nice people.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/21/91 21:41:33
Message Number 12443

SA> any of the women I know, they are either married, or as plastic
 
Hmmm - why is that?  I mean the plastic - the married I understand.
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 22:10:15
Message Number 12444

S> And next point, you shouldn't care. Am I right?
   
   Absolutely. The only time a person's sexual preference is important
is when you're in bed with thon. 
   
S> I know that if I were a lesbian, I certainly would be afraid to
S> admit it just because of all the biased people in this world.
  
   The thing that I've never understood: lesbians are not considered as
bad as gay men, in most bigots' eyes.  Imagine being male and homo-
sexual in this society!
     
              /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Give it a Rest 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 22:15:27
Message Number 12445

   Actually, the body-builder friend has never been on the board, and
I won't name him. (Several people on this board know him, and would be
shocked... maybe.)  He won't be named any further.
             /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 22:17:27
Message Number 12446

> Do you have any suggestions as to where I can find this rare breed?
    
   Damn. The ones I know of are all married.
   
   When you talk about "clubs," do you mean dancing clubs? Or do you
mean "clubs" as in organizations? The latter (depending on the organ-
iazation, of course) might get you to meet some interesting people.
    
   (Kind of like my meeting Wolf in the S.C.A.  That woman still scares
me.)
              /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Freakish fears 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 22:20:57
Message Number 12447

Twinkies are bad for you? Twinkies are bad for you? Hmph. Somewhere
near an ant pile, put a bit of the cafeteria's mystery meat, and a
bit of the Twinkie filling, and see which one the ants run towards.
See? Even they know how good it is for you!
    
   Twinkies have lots of preservatives. Just think: you can stay your
current age as long as you want!  Also, Twinkies make a wonderful
metaphor for life: you have to dive in, and get to the heart of things
before you can really enjoy it. Also like life, it's meant for big 
bites.
   Twinkies make the almost perfect post-nuclear holocaust (sp?) food:
they will last for hundreds of years. (At least the fillings...)
  What more could you ask for? Besides, they contain one of the Four 
Basic College Food Groups: Sugar. (The other three are, of course,
caffeine, pizza, and alcohol.)
                   /Dragonfly/
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Motley Crude   
Date & Time: 02/21/91 22:42:01
Message Number 12448

SS>*yawn* 
 
>>SLAP!<<  Pay attention, you.
 
SS> This from a confessed hater of heavy metal.  Your prejudice is 
SS>showing.  As far as chord structure is concerned, a lot of groups,
SS>both heavy metal and other forms of music, usually have three or 
SS>four main chords in them.
 
Yes, like, Great White, Guns 'n' Roses, Cinderella, Poison, and what's 
that other one who's so generic?  Oh, yeah, Motely Crue.  The one 
redeeming factor of groups like Whitesnake and Kiss is that at least 
they use more than one set of chords for *all* of thier songs.
 
SS>...and some damn good guitar riffs.
 
Any of those groups use thier riffs just to show off how fast the lead 
guitarist can hammer on and pull off on his guitar...not to add to the
song.  They may be fast and good...just not with the pariticular son
that everone else is playing at the time.  By the way, WINGER is an 
excellent example of the lead guitar playing along with the song instead
of just showing off.  "Headed for a Heartache" has a lead in it which is
not always "ripping up the frets" but still comes off as a fantastic
riff, *with* the added bonus of going with the song that's being played.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/21/91 22:54:23
Message Number 12449

DF>When did I (as a person) [moot] agree to those rules>
 
Ok, so you are saying that you want your rights but don't feel like 
taking care of your responsibilities?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/21/91 23:04:33
Message Number 12450

JB>[soapbox speil about the middle east...in an overacted fashion]
 
Oh, please...
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/21/91 23:06:41
Message Number 12451

JB>[another "long-winded" speil...]  grow up, Dave.
 
Ok, ok, no need to get defensive.  I just choked on your message,
that's all.  Your chivalrous (spoken in Dudley Dooright tones),
"Now, now, fellows, what she looks like is not important.  What *is*
important is that she can carry on an intelligent conversation!"  line
just stuck me as bull...just a little *too* altruistic.  When I am 
certain that we all are curious what this "ideal" woman looks like.
 
Savvik, if I am being offensive, I aplogise.  I used the word "ideal" 
because, well, you do have a lot of qualities that people on this 
board find appealing.  The first and foremost (and probably the least 
common among women) is that you are a ST fan.  Next would come your 
well spoken nature and sense of humor.  (No, I am not sucking up,
which I know SS will accuse me of.)  
  Keep in mind that not a whole lot of women use BBS's...much less ST 
fans!  Curious...naturally!  
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/21/91 23:17:37
Message Number 12452

JB>...but the point is [MINDING YOUR OWN BUSINESS!]
 
Sounds like someone is still a little shell-shocked from Viet Nam...eh?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 23:20:54
Message Number 12453

DF>;lesbians are not considered as bad as gay men in most bigot's eyes
 
uh huh.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: ALL                 
Subject: Shameless Plug 
Date & Time: 02/21/91 23:24:41
Message Number 12454

And now, a word from our user:
 
Ok, for anyone who is interested, the story board is now active on
Uncle Bob's Alligator Farm and Tofu Museum.  Setting is a space station,
and the moderator is yours truly. (And don't worry, I am a fair 
moderator.)  Participators-to-be should read the storyline description 
in the text files area....  FIRST!
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 01:52:34
Message Number 12456

SA> You wouldn't be interested in any of the women I know, they are
either married, or as plastic as a barbvie doll. 
  
Yeah! (sign) Sometimes I wonder if there is any hope. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Shrinks R Us   
Date & Time: 02/22/91 01:54:48
Message Number 12457

I try to give sound advice, for some reason (which I don't know) I seem 
to almost radiate an air of trust.  A lot of people, including people I 
have only known for a few minutes, will open up to me about personal 
matters.  Granted it's sometimes it's uncomfortable, but I try my best. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: New Topic      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 01:59:13
Message Number 12458

Well, I will respond, not retaliate.  You caught me in a bad way, the 
way you said I obvious didn't know the Specialist.  He happens to be one
of my best friends.  And for some reason I got offended.  So please 
accept my apologies.  Show me that you're a better person then I thought
you were by doing so.  I like numbers, they are black and white, not 
full of inconsistencies like people are.  I can't deal very well with 
gray areas in life.  I strive to make them clear and concise.  Although 
I do possess the ability to help others with their problem (believe it o
or not) I have a hard time finding workable solutions to my own.  
Kind of like, "Those who can't do, teach."
Again, my apologies. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:06:15
Message Number 12459

In previous message I apologized to you, now I think you owe me one. 
I think you're using the same tactics you accused me of.  I'm /not/ 
shallow, and definitely not gay.  I highly doubt the Specialist and I 
would be "co-habitating" if that was the case. And yes I /do/ have  
respectable qualitites.  Just a warning, I'd like to end this 
misunderstanding now, before you /do/ piss me off. I was wrong initially
now you're attacking me in the same way.  
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: St             
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:12:03
Message Number 12460

JB> I guess Kirk was a real hero figure to me.... 
  
Yeah, he was to me too.  I guess that's why I have a hard time finding 
fault with him. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:17:26
Message Number 12461

JB> ...you really need to open up the empathy part of your psyche a bit
JB> -in short-grow up Dave. 
   
First of all, I don't know how long you've known the Specialist but I've
known him almost as long as he's been living in Florida (just 4 months 
shy).  But, one thing I'd never him to do is grow up.  He is rather 
mature in a lot of ways.  Yes he is set in his ways, and can be rather
cold and insensitive.  But telling him to grow up I think is uncalled 
for. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:25:28
Message Number 12462

Agreed, I hate those two questions, "What kinda car do you drive? " 
"what do you  do for a living?" They're almost saying, will I be 
embarassed if my friends see me in your car, and do you make enough 
money to spoil me.  As far as I'm concerned that type of women is 
an instant write-off.  
  
JB>  So far my resolve to remain a bachelor (after 2 disasters) has 
JB>  remained firm. 
  
Have you been married twice, or just engaged twice, like me?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:29:34
Message Number 12463

Where do you play raquetball?  I used to play at Jessie P. Miller. 
I love raquetball, but, due to a back injury, I haven't been able to pla
play in almost a year.  I used to be pretty good. 
Maybe if we can solve our differnces we can get together and play 
sometimes!?!
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:31:39
Message Number 12464

JB> Hmmm - wht is that? I mean the plastic - the married I understand. 
  
Yeah, I meant to ask that same question. Are your "plastic" friends 
just acquitances or are they "real" with you and plastic towards men?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:34:46
Message Number 12465

As far as clubs go, I'm referring to dance clubs. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Motley Crude   
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:37:09
Message Number 12466

Well, if nothing else I appreciate the fact that you mentioned Kiss, 
Whitesnake, and Winger in a positive manner. (Three of my favorite 
groups)  Also, Queensryche is one of my faves too. I do like the Crue 
but I wouldn't refer to them as one of my favorite groups. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 02:41:47
Message Number 12467

TS> (in reference to Saavik) (no, I am not sucking up, which I know SS 
will accuse me of.) 
  
Wrong.  I'm offended.  Dave,(note I'm using your real name) you should 
know that I know you'd never make a play for a married woman.  That's
just not your style.  You were being complimentary in an objective 
manner, but you were not sucking up.  Anyone can see Saavik has a goood 
sense of humor and can express herself well.  
                        A rather offended,
                        (feeling accused of being shallow)
  
                        Scott Steel
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: *********      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 10:18:25
Message Number 12468

I STILL haven't any idea... can ya gimme another clue? (please?)
Thanks,
Knight Owl
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: 'E'            
Date & Time: 02/22/91 10:19:49
Message Number 12469

...eight cinsonants in a row!
 
Anything's possible...that's why I asked.
Knight Owl
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: origin         
Date & Time: 02/22/91 10:37:03
Message Number 12470

Just outta curiousity, what is the origin of your handle?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TIBERIUS            
Subject: How not to     
Date & Time: 02/22/91 12:41:20
Message Number 12471

Don't assume anything. Just make your observations silently and throw 
out little tests......, that's how not to get slapped and how to 
perfect reading body language. There's some people out there you can't 
read no matter what. THEY don't even know what they are going to do 
from moment to moment. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Heros          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 12:45:20
Message Number 12472

Look at the hero types presented to children in that era. Superman, Bat
man, no wonder Charles Manson had so many followers.... at least he was 
human, eh? Don't misunderstand, I am disgusted by Charles Manson and his
family, I was just making the comment that all the hero's were 
impossible examples to follow. At least Kirk was a man, ( and a good 
looking one at that). 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Very cute      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 12:48:36
Message Number 12473

What, do you sit up nights coming up with these things...... very cute, 
Jonboy.  
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Weeding        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 12:54:36
Message Number 12474

Weed them out, I like that. But you know, almost everyone has something 
good about them...... Even the plastics and the phonies, it just takes
a little longer to get past the bullshit and down to the real person. 
Persistence and patience sometimes do pay off, but it's a gamble. 
Plastics usually have false expectations from life and relationships and
they don't have the patience or fortitude to "get to know" anyone past 
"like you said" what year Beamer they drive or what boutique they shop 
in. This goes for relationships in general, not just man-woman. I'd
rather have 1 good friend than 20 plastic friends. But I must admit, 
I considered some of my friends plastic when I first met them (but 
they melted) 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: plastic        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 12:59:51
Message Number 12475

Well, they aren't plastic to me anymore but I've seen them around men, 
especially when they first meet them. It's sickening. They put on this 
phoney facade of sophistication and seduction...... I mean, I like to 
flirt as much as the next woman but these chicks, they build a guy up 
to think that he's getting some kind of rich, nymphmaniac, wonder woman
and THEN, two weeks after the first date, BLAM!!!! Reality sinks in. 
They just don't know how to be themselves and "talk". It's all BS
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/22/91 13:03:40
Message Number 12476

Men don't think "Lesbian" when they think of two women together. They 
think "Hey, ladies, room for one more???". Like it's all some kind of 
warm up to "the real thing". There's no way you could turn that around 
for men. Two guys together, I don't know a single woman who'd like 
sloppy seconds on that one. (sorry for the rude remark). 
I don't think men are offended by bi-sexual women at all. "After all, 
she ain't been anywhere I ain't been before." Says Macho man. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 13:10:05
Message Number 12477

And I am as curious as you guys are. Posting and replying on the boards 
is like getting to know someone over the phone before you meet them. (
(exactly the same thing). People are more apt to be themselves and speak
out (even if they are painfully shy in public) over the phone or on a 
BBS. I regret more women don't post on the BBS's, they would gain a 
great insight into the true mind of men and themselves as well. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: co plug        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 13:13:54
Message Number 12478

Co-plug..... I read the first parts...... "Good reading... Check it out
y'all!!!"
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Hope           
Date & Time: 02/22/91 13:15:01
Message Number 12479

Never give up hope. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Shrink R Us    
Date & Time: 02/22/91 13:15:49
Message Number 12480

Sometimes it's hard to keep a straight face...... But I'd never insult 
anyone by laughing at them. It's just that to some people, the smallest
annoyance is a BIG problem. "Back to those plastic people again." 
No matter how small the problem seems to me, I'll still listen, I guess
that's why they keep coming....., eh?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 13:19:46
Message Number 12481

SS> Are they real with you and plastic towards men? 
.
Yes. Exactly. Although I think they use me sometimes just to get close 
to my male friends. I have a lot of male friends, left over from my 
rock n roll band days. These girls will be talking to me like a normal 
human being and if one of the guys walk up..... BOOM they shift into 
this sickening mascarade (sp?). It makes me want to shake them and yell
"GROW UP". And they wonder why their relationships don't last.....No one
can put on an act forever and eventually they began to resent the poor 
guy because they feel they have to "be all things to all men"...... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Thank you      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 13:25:29
Message Number 12482

Thank you, Scott. It's easy to have a sence of humor in this "Alter 
Reality". Difficult concept, eh?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Weeding        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 17:21:12
Message Number 12484

SA> I'd rather have 1 good friend than 20 plastic friends. 
  
Here, here.  I only have a few friends, which is of my own choosing. 
I only allow a few people to get close to me. Most people I don't 
find worthy(that's not a very good word but I can't think of another)
of my friendship.  
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Hope           
Date & Time: 02/22/91 17:26:56
Message Number 12485

Well, like I wrote earlier, I've been engaged twice and screwed over 
hard.  Do you want to hear this?  It is a long story. I've just found it
virtually impossible to get to really know most women.  Not that I have 
a hard time communicating with women, but they just won't open up. They 
play their games and dance around questions.  Arrrrghh, honesty do you 
really want to hear this?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Worthy?        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 18:34:20
Message Number 12487

SS> Most people I don't find worty of my friendship. 
.
That sounded pretty concieted but I knew what you meant. True friends 
are usually easy to be with. Those "plastic" people are a strain on 
your patience. I find myself constantly trying to educate them on 
being "real". But (sigh), who am I to tell them how to lead their lives.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Do I wanna.... 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 18:37:46
Message Number 12488

SS> Do you really want to hear this?
.
Yeah, I do. I like hearing a man's point of view. I used to think it 
was the men who played all the games, but now that I'm "all grown up", 
and not in the game anymore, I can see who's screwing with who's mind. 
The women are definately doing the F*ckovers out there. Not to say 
that all men are just innocent bystanders being plodded on by "mean 
evil" women. 
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST movies      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:18:20
Message Number 12489

>BTW, did anybody see the TNG episode called "Devil's Due"? Very anti-
>religious (evil grin)...
 
I saw it, and got it on tape. I didn't find it anti-religious at all;
just anti-con-artist.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: ST stuff       
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:19:24
Message Number 12490

I don't know how many Original Trek episodes he has left. He has "The
Menagerie" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before;" I think he may have
sold the rest. He still has the movies, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:21:18
Message Number 12491

>Okay, so maybe Max is not a yellow belly coward...But I doubt it.
 
Of course you doubt it; otherwise you wouldn't have called him a coward
in the first place. I'm not debating with you, since once you have your
mind set on something it doesn't change and I suspect you'd still call
Max a coward even if you saw him in the front seat of a tank. My point
was not to argue about it, I simply state that you are wrong.
 
As to who I'd rather have in Kuwait, certainly not Hussein. It still
doesn't take 200,000 troops to kill one man. This is simple stuff,
fingers-and-toes arithmetic, you know? "But that would leave his
army intact." So? It's not like squashing it is going to keep Hussein's
successor from building military power, and it's not like Hussein's
successor is gonna use it like Hussein did to begin with. Squashing
Hussein would have caused his occupation of Kuwait to fall apart over-
night. So far, squashing his army hasn't.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Deal!          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:26:10
Message Number 12492

>All fags do not act alike, but a great many of them have traits in
>common.
 
I know, and I still think it's a sure thing...none of the people Max
was referring to have any of the traits one would normally associate
with gays. Okay, so maybe it's a stacked deck...no tipoffs, no limp
wrists. You really sure you want to give it a shot? If you're looking
for common traits, you're gonna be in trouble...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give it a Rest 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:28:30
Message Number 12493

>I say they [Motley Crue] lack the ability to write music because a
>good 80% of their songs use the same chords in the same fashion...
 
Only 80%? There are good Motley Crue songs, but I'd say they comprise
far less than 20% of that group's works to date...and most of the Crue
stuff I like isn't terribly popular. My opinion: 80% of their stuff is
crap, 15% is tolerable at low volumes in controlled doses, and 5% is
worth listening to. Of that latter 5%, about half of it is actually
good.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Opinions       
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:31:27
Message Number 12494

>Ok, ok, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. There, are
>you happy????
 
Ecstatic. Elated. Jump in air, clap paws together, squeal with glee.
(Do animals without fur have paws? I'm not sure...I have opposing
thumbs, though...)
 
>No offence intended, Darlin'.
 
"Darlin'"?????
 
>I would really like to see a Post-It fish.
 
Well, get a fish and some Post-It adhesive...
 :)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Motley Crue    
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:35:06
Message Number 12495

>Motley Crue ain't all bad. Beats Lawrence Welk. But then again,
>what doesn't it?
 
What doesn't it what? Do (like, say, emit coherent light, or open cans
of tuna)? Beat (like, say, Metallica or an inside strait)? Or are
we talking about what doesn't beat Lawrence Welk (an appendectomy with
a chainsaw, Mike Tyson)? Enquiring minds want to know!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Fav Shows      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:38:13
Message Number 12496

>But, all in all I really don't dislike any of the show.
 
Not even the hippie episode? That's amazing!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: st             
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:44:02
Message Number 12497

T> No, what DO they say about opinions?
SS>Not necessarily factual, but only perspective.
 
I like Saavik's better.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:46:58
Message Number 12498

>It seems that so many people have given up hope on real relation-
>ships, and have substituted cheap thrills.
 
Yes and no. Yes, that is true; no, it's nothing new. Human beings,
the rational beings they are, will make rational decisions about almost
every aspect of their lives EXCEPT THE MOST IMPORTANT, which has
always been something that utterly baffles me. When it comes to
dealings and interactions with other people, especially the intimate
kind, people in general switch off the ol' forebrain and run on
instinct...let knee-jerk reactions like jealousy or posession or
security or territory or simple fear make their decisions for them.
Go figure.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: protocols      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:51:10
Message Number 12499

ANSI is a cursor-positioning standard (baserd on the DEC VT-102
terminal standard) that has nothing to do with graphics. A lot of
people confuse ANSI cursor positioning with IBM graphics characters
and if you want one you get both. A terminal which emulates ANSI
(like mine) still will not be able to produce IBM graphics characters
unless your computer has an IBM character generator or a software driver
of some sort. Your best bet is just to leave it turned off, since
ANSI is as slow as frozen molasses in zero gee anyway. There are BBS
packages (Telegard comes to mind) that let you switch ANSI and
IBM Graphics on and off independantly, but most BBSes don't (I suspect
because most IBM programmers don't know that ANSI and IBM graphics are
not the same thing).
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: ST stuff       
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:55:16
Message Number 12500

It's still available. Tell Raven to get in touch with me and I'll see
about getting him the ferret from Tampa. I think it's about a year
old; it's litter-trained already and very tame (and it's not the albino
variety).
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Give War agin  
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:56:33
Message Number 12501

I think you've hit the nail on the head, so to speak; The Specialist
claims to despise religion, but damned if his attitude toward his
country doesn't look, functionally, like a religion. If it walks like
a duck...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Give it a Rest 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 20:58:11
Message Number 12502

>I'd say it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to tell what a person's sexual pref-
>erences are from how they act.
 
Much as I loathe to say it, once again I find myself in The
Specialist's camp on this one. If there were no reasonably consistent
behavioral traits, there would be no stereotype associated with "gay
behavior;" after all, stereotypes are based, however loosely, on fact.
There ARE traits that some gays exhibit which identify their sexual
preference; if you deny this I invite you to look around campus some-
time. I don't believe these traits are as common among gays as The
Specialist seems to believe; they certainly aren't universal, nor are
they always accurate. They do undeniably exist, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:01:47
Message Number 12503

>It's like people are afraid to be themselves.
 
Ding.
 
>Maybe it boils down to insecurities...
 
Ding.
 
>...from childhood.
 
Or anywhere else. There are other factors involved, but basic insecurity
is a big one.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Same old situat
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:03:31
Message Number 12504

>I think people tend to hear the music and the beat without listening
>to the lyrics...
 
Not this person. Lyrics are the most important part of a song, although
by themselves they can't make up for truly atrocious music. I don't like
the sledgehammer approach to lyrical writing that most people seem to
employ, though; you know, the "If ya got something to say it say it
directly" philosophy. Subtlety is a good thing; for example, I wonder
how many people know the Don Henley song "All She Wants To Do Is
Dance" is about the U.S. involvement in Central and South America?
Good lyrics.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:06:13
Message Number 12505

>I don't care if a friend of mine...likes girls or boys.
 
Men or women, surely you mean. Just a minor quibble, but I have an
attitude toward people who molest children that makes The Specialist's
reaction to gays seem downright loving.
 
>Somethings wrong here.
 
Ding.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:08:40
Message Number 12506

>I mean, just try to meet someone, for instance, in a night club.
 
Hey! I resent that...one of my closest friends (and a former roommate)
used to /work/ in a night club, as a dancer. While I see your point,
it is possible to meet "real people" /anywhere/. You just have to know
what you're looking for, know how to recognize it when you see it, and
know what to do when you recognize it...and in this sort of situation,
"he who hesitates is lost" holds true more often than "look before you
leap," at least as far as being willing to reveal enough of yourself to
begin a real intimate (as opposed to physically intimate, which is easy)
relationship is concerned. Nothing to it.
 
(Nothing to defusing land mines either: ya just gotta know how to spot
'em, how to dig 'em up without setting 'em off, and how to get the
detonator out in one piece...)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:15:51
Message Number 12507

>It seems harder and harder to make 'good' friends these days.
 
is it really getting harder these days, or is it as you grow more
experienced you can recognize more easily when what you have isn't it?
I hardly think it's the state of the society that's changing; after
all, we are still coming down off the "me" 70's and the "ego trip"
80's.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: St             
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:19:42
Message Number 12508

The New Generation's first season is rather like the old Trek's third--
nine-month-long ghastly mistakes. I'm glad the Next Generation finally
settled into something that's consistently wirth watching...I refused to
watch most of the first season. By and large, I prefer the new Trek to
the old, although the old still had a few amazing episodes that really
shine (and still haven't been matched in the new), and the old has
the new's first season beat cold.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:25:15
Message Number 12509

>The second worst are the ones that come on like decent human
>beings [and]...decide there are things that need to be changed.
 
I'd put them at number 3. Number two are the people who come on like
decent human beings until the magical instant you start having a
Relationship, at which time you become part and parcel of their
property...they suddenly feel they have the right to control
who you see, where you go, what you do and when, etc. I've known a
couple of people like that, although never had to deal with any on
any sort of a "going-out" relationship. Speaking of which: I never 
could grok the distinction a lot of people see between relationships
(ie, close friendships) and Relationships; to me they seem to be on
a contimuum, but a lot of people I've talked to seem to see them as
qualitatively different. Ditto for attitudes like "I love you; I'm just
not 'in love' with you," as though emotional intimacy comes in different
flavors. Manifest Bullshit if ever I saw it.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:29:54
Message Number 12510

>The thing I've never understood: Lesbians are not considered as bad
>as [male gays]...
 
An observation I made a long time ago. It's a male-dominated society,
still, and if you're male the thought of two women sleeping together
is not likely to have the same gut-churning impact as the thought of
two men sleeping together. Pick up any 'Penthouse Forum' type magazine
and you'll see all sorts of two-girls-making-it stories, but never, ever
a two-guys-making-it incident. I even know some rather...opinionated
anti-gay bigots who are actively turned on by the prospect of two
women sleeping together. Go figure.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Lupine people  
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:33:12
Message Number 12511

>(Kind of like my meeting Wolf in the S.C.A.  That woman still scares
>me.)
 
Wolf? She's mostly harmless. I've known /real/ scary women...hell, I've
lived with really scary women. Wolf isn't scary.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Motley Crude   
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:35:58
Message Number 12512

>Any of those groups use thier riffs just to show off how fast the
>lead guitarist can hammer on and pull off on his guitar...not to add
>to the song.
 
You know, it's really starting to bother me that I am agreeing with
you on matters of taste now. Sadly, there it is: I agree. hat's
why, on the whole, I'd rather have my tongue sandpapered off than listen
to, say, Poison... On the other hand, that assessment isn't as
universally true as I think you thnk it is, so maybe there's some hope.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:39:20
Message Number 12513

>Sounds like someone is still a little shell-shocked from Viet Nam...eh?
 
Oh, give it a rest. You and I both know that if the people who founded
this country saw what we are doing they'd vomit...and I'd be standing in
line to use the toilet right behind them. Supporting a war to re-
establish a dictator in a brutal, repressive country...silliest damn
idea I ever heard of. Making it sound like fighting for this tyrant is
the most patriotic thing any American citizen who values freedom and
liberty could ever do...pathetic.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: How not to     
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:44:18
Message Number 12514

>There's some people out there you can't read no matter what. THEY
>don't even know what they are going to do from moment to moment.
 
Yes, there are people whose body language you can't read, but no, that's
not usually why. Lots of different things can make someone's body
language unreadable...anything from time in jail to martial arts
training to simple closedness and emotional defensiveness. I've seen
people who have taken unreadability to an art form.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:47:55
Message Number 12515

>I don't think men are offended by bi-sexual women at all.
 
Depends on the man. I know of at least one who is...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 21:48:39
Message Number 12516

>I regret more women don't post on the BBS's, ...
 
Ever hear of the phrase "board rape"? I know very well why more women
don't post on BBS's...I've seen more than one be driven away from
BBS's in general because of unpleasant experiences on one or two 
systems. Everything from endless E-mail to harassment in the message
bases and even harassment from the sysop. It's surprising how common it
is.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Opinions       
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:09:34
Message Number 12517

T> Darlin'????
.
Don't take it personal. I call everyone Darlin'. It's just how I talk.
T> Get a fish and some Post it adhesive. 
.
Last time I checked, the only thing that sticks to fish is slime. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:12:14
Message Number 12518

I meant to say, Beats Lawrence Welk, but then again, what doesn't (beat
Lawrence Welk). Hey, what can I say??? Are enquiring minds satisfied?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Hippie show    
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:14:19
Message Number 12519

"I'm going to Eden, yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally stupid. As a hard core 
ST fan, MY intelligence was insulted by that one. It was an appeal to 
the drug culture.... Peace, baby. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:17:42
Message Number 12520

When it comes to dealings... with other people, esspecially the intimate
kind, people in general swith off the (condensed) brain and run on 
instinct .... go figure. 
.
Go figure, indeed. When you sit down in front of your computer, you 
usually know what to expect. You know how it works and why.., but when
it comes to relationships (both intimate and casual), you never really
know what's going on in the noble head of the other person. Instict is 
all ya' got. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:23:30
Message Number 12521

T> There are other factors involved......
.
Do you think a person who has had a sound childhood and made it past the
adolesent BS with flying colors can become insecure as an adult. Most 
of the people I knew in High school who were considered "winners" are 
still just that. Barring something totally traumatic happening to you 
as an adult, I think if you have it together through your teens, you've 
got a good chance at being a "real person". Plastic people generally 
lacked sincere love and affections as children and teens. Agree? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Same old situat
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:28:45
Message Number 12522

I didn't know that....., hmmm, I'll have to listen to that song again. 
I'm into lyrics myself. If the music's good but the lyrics suck, the 
song doesn't interest me. That's why I hated DISCO (both the lyrics and 
the music stunk). 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:30:58
Message Number 12523

T>Men or women, surely you mean. 
.
Surely I did.  (quibble, quibble) And as for child molesters, "BOOM", 
I can't believe they keep turning them loose. (they, meaning the law). 
My son was molested when he was three years old, and the son of a $%^&
tried his best to pull a THREE YEAR OLD child on the witness stand. It 
was a tactic by the defence to weaken the case. I'm happy (happy?) to 
say, the son of a bitch got 30 years from a plea bargain. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Land mines     
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:36:50
Message Number 12524

Nice comparison. But this day and age, he who hesitates may be lost but
he's not gonna die of AIDS. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:38:27
Message Number 12525

T> As you grow more experienced you can recognize more easily when what 
you have, isn't it....(good friends). 
. 
I concede. The world isn't changing, I am. If the 70's were the ME age, 
and the 80's were the "EGO TRIP", what do you predict for the 90's?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:41:56
Message Number 12526

T> "I love you; I'm just not 'in love' with you," as though emotional 
T> intimacy comes in different flavors. Bullshit? 
.
No, there is a difference. I love you means (or should mean) I accept 
you and I want to be with you and only you. I love you; I'm just not
in love with you means I care for you, I don't want to lose you're 
friendship but you just ain't doing it for me. It's the last thing a guy
says before he never calls you again (unless it's to get your sisters 
phone number). Not actually true. Haven't you ever had a intimate 
relationship with someone that wasn't going well for one reason or the 
other but you didn't want to lose them???? You loved them, but you 
knew that this wasn't "it". 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: How not to     
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:50:21
Message Number 12527

>I've seen people who have taken unreadability to an art form. 
Yes, that's true. I've met people who were very cold at first impression
but they usually turn out to be very nice people once you get past the
defence shields. Most people won't make the effort to melt the ice, 
however. It's the same with shy people, they're branded as snobs because
they don't leap into conversations or look people in the eye. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:53:34
Message Number 12528

S>Men aren't offended by bi-sexual women
T>I know of at least one who is....
.
Would his name happen to be Turtle? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 22:55:20
Message Number 12529

>It's surprising how common it is.(board rape, harrassment)
.
I haven't come across it yet. I haven't been posting all that long,
though. I suppose there are "jerks" every where. I have this habit of 
calling people (both male and female) Darlin' and Babe. I suppose I 
should refrain on the boards so I won't encourage the "jerks". I'm 
basically a open person and I like to post like I talk. Thanks for 
the warning. 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: New Topic      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:16:46
Message Number 12530

SS> Again - my aplogies
Accepted
                       A-most-benign- JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:18:00
Message Number 12531

SS> I was wrong initially
 
Yup - you sure were - see how it spread into further misunderstandings?
I agree let's drop it as I really was out of line in suggesting that
you were hiding in the closet - I also did not intend on any allusions
between you and Dave - although I CAN see where you two would be
best friends - mutual bigot society and all that.  Anyway - Dave can
attest that I really am a nice guy and we really should try to get the
whole gang together sometime.
                                      JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:21:52
Message Number 12532

SS> I think is uncalled for -
 
Well - I don't just as Dave can bash gays - I can bash bigots and
even trounce a few chauvanists in my time.  If you want to live
by the sword figuratively speaking you should be prepared to answer
for your remarks.  I happen to feel that bigotry is a sign of an
immature mind.
                                    JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:24:31
Message Number 12533

I hate to admit that I was actually lured into marriage twice by
unscrupulus females.  (beat me hurt me!)
                                         JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:26:04
Message Number 12534

SS> Solve our diffewrences - 
Well I have never ever let something silly like a minor disagreement
get in the way of getting to know someone.  I go all the time to 
Jesse P. Miller as it is the only free one left in Bradenton.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:27:40
Message Number 12535

SS> real towards you and plastic towards men?
 
Exactly!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: origin         
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:29:21
Message Number 12536

It's very simple - my name is Jon and my friends and his kids started
just calling me that ages ago and it has stuck.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Very cute      
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:31:37
Message Number 12537

SA> very cute
Thank you - nahhhh after awhile they just come to you - I did
spend a lot of time on my Bill the Cat Bixie (what the ascii doo-dads
aree called) I might send it if ya ask nice.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:34:44
Message Number 12538

SA> ... sloppy seconds ...
well after a few seconds of gasping for air between giggles we have
to admit that you ARE in rare form tonite - I love outspoken people.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:36:55
Message Number 12539

SA>  rock-n-roll band days...
Screeeetttcchhhhhhhhhhh!!!!  Now ya got my attention (Dave's too!)
You have to clue us in on this aspect of yourself (being a guitar player
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/22/91 23:50:18
Message Number 12540

Exactly why I made the comment that I did.  SAAVIk made a comment that
indicated that she was a little hesitant and here comes the comments
on looks --- I get kind of tired of remarks like tese that reinforce the
idea that that is all they are worth.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Motley Crude   
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:03:36
Message Number 12541

SS> Kiss, Whitesnake, and Winger
SS> I do like the Crue but I wouldn't refer to them as one of my 
SS> fav groups.
 
Well, I could class Winger as one of my favs...but the only stuff
that I like from Kiss is thier old stuff...and Whitesnake...eh...
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:07:57
Message Number 12542

S>[remarks on men don't think "lesbian" about two women...but two men
S>turn women off...]
 
Actually, I do think "lesbian"; actualy, the word that comes to mind
is "dyke".  
  I think that the reason men don't feel so bad towards woman-woman
is that they don't think that both women can be as homely as mud
covered fences.  Most men think beautiful woman with a beautiful
woman, and this appeals to them--because if one beautiful woman is 
a pleasure to watch, then two is twice the pleasure!  
  Now with this in mind, take a look at the stereotype there--a 
beautiful woman is a pleasure to behold.
 
  On the flip side of the coin, a woman (or most women, excuse me if
I am dead wrong but figger the odds) looks for masculinity in a man.
So one man who is masculine is a pleasure to behold (to a woman).  Two
men together...well, it kinda blows that masculinity away.  (Excuse the
pun.)  So, naturally a woman wouldn't be interested in non-masculine 
men.  (And you CAN'T tell ME that a man who does sexual acts with 
another man is in ANY way shape or form masculine.  He may have the 
physique of Adonis but if he sucks dick (pardon) he is NOT masculine.) 
 
  As for myself...I am against homosexuality anyway....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:17:15
Message Number 12543

Y'know, if everyone is so curious, there is a great way to meet.  About
once a month, Charles Dittel (the sysop of Suncoast City BBS 9535505 or
something like that) holds a breakfast/lunch get together (commonly
called the Suncoast City Picknick--yes, spelled like that).  You should
make plans to come to the next one.  Bring yer hubby, too. 
 
Great idea!  Or, come to the next RufusCon.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Do I wanna.... 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:21:42
Message Number 12544

SS>Do you really want to hear this?
S> Yeah, I do.
 
 
Ahrhg!  Don't encourage him!!!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:23:12
Message Number 12545

I don't think squashing Hussien would be that easy.  Assassination 
is very tricky.  Besides, this needs to be a joint effort...to show
the world that the UN is "United" Nations...not just United States.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Fine.          
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:25:21
Message Number 12546

T>You really sure you want to give it a shot? 
 
Yes, but let's do it via E-Mail.  I don't wanna offend anyone 
without a good reason.  You list the people, I'll put down the odds.
(Like a percentage of how sure I am.)  How much money do you want to 
put on it?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give it a Rest 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:27:13
Message Number 12547

T>...80% of thier stuff is crap, 15% is tolerable at low volumes in 
T>controlled doses, and 5% is worth listening to.  Of that latter 5%,
T>about half of it is actually good.
 
Sounds pretty accurate, but I wouldn't use the word "good", I'd say 
adequate.
 
 Looks like we're agreeing again...hell with it.  I agree.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:30:49
Message Number 12548

T>...EXCEPT THE MOST IMPORTANT...let knee-jerk reactions...make thier 
T>decisions for them.
 
Thank you Turtle for that analytical assessment.  Predictable.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give War agin  
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:33:29
Message Number 12549

I never claimed to despise religion...I simply agree with someo fo
your viewpoints.  Actually, some of the things you find in religion
(stripped of thier Godliness) are pretty good guidelines for life.
 
T>If it walks like a duck...
 
Then investigate it, and make sure that you don't make any asinine
assumtions.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:41:47
Message Number 12550

T>Supporting a war to re-establish a dictator in a brutal, repressvie
T>country
 
Irrelevant. We are fighting to restore a government, irreguardless of
what that government is like.  That dictatorship is the *proper*
government of that country, and we are fighting to restore the govnt,
not the brutality or repressiveness (not intentionally, anyway.)
 
Oh, and by the way, you don't seem to understand that the brutality
or repressivness is *part* of that government, and just because *you*
percieve it doesn't mean that they do.  It's the way they run thier 
country and if that's the way they want to run it, that's thier 
business.  Or do you want to wish our way of running things on every
one else, too?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:48:24
Message Number 12551

S>I don't think men are offended by bi-sexual women at all.
T>Depends on the man.  I know of at least one who is...
 
And who would that be?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:52:38
Message Number 12552

S>Men aren't offended by bi-sexual women
T>I know of at least one who is....
.
S>Would his name happen to be Turtle?
 
 
HEHAHAHHEHAHEHAHEHAHEHAEHEHAEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!  NO WAY!!
 
Chortle...chuckle...thanks for the laugh...heheh.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:54:56
Message Number 12553

JB>Anyway- Dave can attest that I really am a nice guy and we really
 
Er...yeah, I guess that he's ok.  Got a nasty left hook, though.  Don't
irritate him and discuss things with him in an intelligent manner and
he's pretty docile.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:56:36
Message Number 12554

JB>I happen to feel that bigotry is a sign of an immature mind.
 
Either that or we know something that you haven't found out yet. 
  
Think about it....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 00:57:36
Message Number 12555

JB>...lured into marriage twice... (beat me hurt me!)
 
Make me write bad checks!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAVVIK              
Subject: Band           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 01:05:35
Message Number 12556

S> rock-n-roll band days...
JB>[Screetch!] Now you got my attention (and Dave's)!  Fill us in...
 
Yes, please do...I wonder how that message got past me...?
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Worthy?        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:10:59
Message Number 12557

Mt sentiments exactly. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Fav Shows      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:16:15
Message Number 12558

Honetsly I can't remember much about the hippie episode.  Please provide
me with some details, then I can give a more informed opinion.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: st             
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:17:44
Message Number 12559

I think Saavik's definition of opinions is more suited for today's world
But I think mine is more Vulcan sounding, and that's good enough for me.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:29:30
Message Number 12560

Plastic people generally lacked sincere love and affections as 
children and teens. Agree?  (quote from Saavik, forgot S>)
  
No, I don't agree.  I was brought up in a home where threats of divorce 
were a bi-weekly thing.  As well as endless mind games, and power 
trips.  But I survived, and didn't resort to becoming plastic. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:32:54
Message Number 12561

Sorry to hear about your son.  They should fry the bastard, and all 
like him after they get gang-raped in prison. No mercy. NONE! Period.
  
Is your son okay? 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:37:12
Message Number 12562

JB> altough I can see where you two would be best friends - mutual 
JB> bigot society and all that. 
  
I'm NOT a bigot.  Actually I flirt with some of my /close/ male friends.
We both know that we're both straight but we do joke around.  
Additionally, I have had several gay friends, as well as a close 
relative who had homosexual tendencies.  I also wear boots,(you know 
that Black Sabbath song, "Fairies Wear Boots"?) and have three earrings
in my left ear.  Yes, I have laughed at by girls and recieved cat-call
implying that I was gay.  But I'm mine own person and if people can't 
expect me for me than f*ck 'em.  The Specialist wouldn't have his ear 
pierce because I believe he feels that someone might mistake him for 
being gay.  Me, I don't care if someone thinks that of me. Like I said
I'm not a bigot.  I believe that homosexuality is wrong I'm not going to
try to tell someone how to live, and kill them if they won't go straight
And yes, the Specialist and I have had several talks about homosexuality
and we simply have agreed to disagree.  Because he knows he won't chang
e me, and I know it's hopeless to change his mind set about anything. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:47:21
Message Number 12563

JB> I happen to feel tht bigotry is a sign of an immature mind. 
  
Well then I guess my mind isn't immature, because, like I already said 
I'm not a bigot. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:48:52
Message Number 12564

Well, let me know when you want to get together and play. I'm avialable 
the weekend, you big stud you.  (I'm not a bigot.) heheheh   :)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Do I wanna.... 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:53:17
Message Number 12565

SS> Do you really want to hear this? 
S> Yeah, I do. 
  
TS> Ahrhg! Don't encourage him!!
  
Don't worry I'll post in E-mail.  Since it would be addressed to Saavik 
and more importantly I know better than to let loose with /that/ kind 
of stuff in front of this bunch.  Besides, I hate to see you suffer. 
heheh:)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 04:57:28
Message Number 12566

TS> Don't irritate hime and discuss things with him in an intelligent 
TS> manner and he's pretty docile. 
   
Whoa, there.  Watch it, pal(?) If you trying to piss me off, you just 
succeeded. 
Let me guess. 
   
TS> Good. 
  
Predictable. 
  
Have a day. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 05:00:17
Message Number 12567

TS> Either that or we know something that you haven't found out yet. 
   
Jonboy was refering to you and I as bigots.  You know that I'm not a 
bigot.  
And where do you get this "we" shit? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
===========

From: TIBERIUS            
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: How not to     
Date & Time: 02/23/91 09:20:25
Message Number 12568

I'll have to get back into the swing of reading body language. I know it
will take some time, but it should pay off in the long run, eh? Thanks
for the tips.
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: TURTLE              
Subject: protocols      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 12:04:10
Message Number 12570

To the best of my knowledge, the terminal also includes IBM ascii. 
I'll tinker with it some more just for fun. 
 
Yes, I agree, IBM color menus are really slow, I was surprisd when I saw
it.
SEE YA!
A non-ANSI
Knight Owl
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: JONBOY              
Subject: origin         
Date & Time: 02/23/91 12:22:14
Message Number 12571

The origin of my handle comes from staying up all night. Then there was 
another Night Owl from the Tampa area who calls Venice periodically, so
I had to make a change.
 
Well, having survived some hard times recently I thought that Knight Owl
was suitable.
 
SEE YA!
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 12:30:59
Message Number 12572

I agree with you, I come from an alcoholic family and I don't have to 
fake anything. 
Coming from a dysfunctional family can be a source of strength because
when you survive the early times, you can survive anything life brings 
you.
 
Without honesty and reality, people are nothing but paper tigers in the 
wind.
 
SEE YA!
a 100% real
Knight Owl
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Opinions       
Date & Time: 02/23/91 13:52:22
Message Number 12573

>Last time I checked, the only thing that sticks to fish is slime.
 
That's because you're still thinking of fish, not Post-It fish. Post-It
fish will stick to any smooth, nonporous substance, and peel off without
leaving any adhesive residue.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/23/91 13:53:33
Message Number 12574

>...but then again, what doesn't (beat Lawrence Welk).
 
Dying in a tragic combination bus/train/avocado/airplane accident.
 
>Are enquiring minds satisfied?
 
No. Now they want to know every possible use for two washers and
six feet of string.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 13:55:10
Message Number 12575

>...when it comes to relationships (both intimate and casual), you
>never really know what's going on in the noble head of the other
>person.
 
True.
 
>Instinct is all ya' got.
 
Not true. The fact that you can't predict the other person's thoughts
or actions is no excuse for allowing instinctive and irrational
reactions like jealousy or posessiveness to interfere with good old 
fashioned understanding and communication, ya know? jealousy is
an evil, destructive force that has no place in any relationship
between any reasonable people and has no more redeeming merits than
bigotry, selfishness, or any of the other petty little concerns that
more appropriatley belong with lizards than with any being posessing a
central nervous system more sophisticated than a brainstem. Leave the
instinct to snakes and skinks; they get along just fine with nothing
else. I won't model my relationships on their example, though.
 
@(SetTirade Off)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:01:30
Message Number 12576

>Do you think a person who had a sound childhood and made it past
>the adolescent BS with flying colors can become insecure as an adult.
 
Yes. I also think that people with a traumatic childhood who learned
no social skills whatsoever during adolescence can become secure,
well-adjusted adults. insecurity has more than one sorce, and a bad
childhood is not necessarily an irreversible condemnation.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Land mines     
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:03:38
Message Number 12577

>But this day and age, he who hesitates may be lost but he's not gonna
>die of AIDS.
 
I thought we were talking about "real" intimacy here. Physical intimacy 
is easy, but that's not what /I/ was discussing. In any event, AIDS is
a controllable threat, and throughout all of human history there has
only been a span of about twenty years (between the discovery of
antibiotics and the appearance of antibiotic-resistent strains of
social diseases) where you did NOT have to worry about a sexual
liason killing you. That's something I think a lot of people have
forgotten; everyone is almost outraged that the race is faced with a
fatal, incurable social disease, totally forgetting that that is
simply business as normal. In, say, 1852, syphillis was almost 
invariably fatal, and it takes years and years to kill ITS victims,
too.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:07:14
Message Number 12578

>If the 70's were the ME age, and the 80's were the "EGO TRIP",
>what do you predict for the 90's?
 
Beats me; I never claimed to be in the fortunetelling industry. I might
hazard a guess and call the 90's the age of fascist liberalism, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:08:36
Message Number 12579

>I love you means...I love and accept you and I want to be with you
>and only you.
 
You seem to be basing that assumption on the idea that you can only
be "in love" with one person at a time. I catagorically deny that
assumption.
 
>Didn't you ever have a relationship with someone that wasn't going
>well...but you didn't want to lose them?
 
Yes, but I don't see your point. I still love those people. I do not
"leave" a relationship. The nature of the relationship may change, but
that does not mean I no longer love that person or am no longer "in love
with" that person or whatever catch phrase you want to use. It sounds to
me a whole lot like you are using the word "love" to mean "affection"
and the phrase "in love with" to be "involved with a monogamous
sexual relationship with," and if that is the case I still say the
distinction between the two is Manifest Bullshit. You can still be "in
love with" someone you're not sleeping with, you can be "in love with"
more than one person at a time, and you can be "in love with" someone
you aren't even living with. I can make these statements with absolute
certainty; I know them for a /fact./
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:13:39
Message Number 12580

Would his name happen to be Turtle?
 
Bite your tongue HARD! You are unlikely to find a person who is LESS
offended by bi-sexual women than Turtle. I think the person I refer
to will make himself known shortly, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:17:46
Message Number 12581

Speaking of the next RufusCon, I've been giving some thought lately
toward holding another furry party in the not-too-distant future.
(Not as big as the last RufusCon, I hope; forty people in this apartment
gets kind of crowded after a while.) Anyone got any ideas about 
acceptable times and whatnot? I'm thinking about a month down the road,
on a weekend...possibly on March 23, as it's my birthday and I can
massacre a number of birds with one stone that way. 'Twill also mean
the Tampa contingent (Pablo, Dirty Wrat, and Bart Fox) will be likely
to attend as well.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:20:34
Message Number 12582

>Thank you Turtle for that analytical assessment. Predictable.
 
Now what the hell was that all about? Oooooh...you wouldn't be thinking
I was obliquely referring to you, were you? Stop being so paranoid; that
isn't what I ment.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:21:46
Message Number 12583

>Actually, some of the things you find in religion (stripped of their
>Godliness) are pretty good guidelines for life.
 
What, pray tell, might those things be? I have my own views (a guideline
I respect a whole lot comes from Wicca, "As it harms none, do as thou
wilt), but I'd be interested to see what you would call a "good
guideline" that comes out of religion.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:23:44
Message Number 12584

>Irrlelvant. We are fighting to restore a government, irregardless [sic]
>of what that government is like. Dictatorship is the *proper* govern-
>ment for that country, ...
 
Come again??? What happened to "fighting for liberty" and your supposed
respect for freedom and human rights you were talking about? You sayin'
people only got rights if they live in the right country and that it's
"proper" for people to be tortured and murdered by their government
as long as it's the "proper" government? Pardon me while I go throw
up. You need a crash course in what the American Revolution was all
about.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:27:20
Message Number 12585

>NO WAY!!
>Chortle...chuckle...thanks for the laugh...heheh.
 
Um...thanks for the vote of confidence, I think.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Fav Shows      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 14:28:31
Message Number 12586

The hippie episode is called "The Way to Eden." The Enterprise picks up
a band of hippies who are searching for Eden; these hippies play an
impromptu concert in the ship (with Spock on some weird triangular
stringed instrument) and then suddenly decide that Eden is located in
the Romulan Neutral Zone, hijack the ship by means of a device which
produces a nasty, obnoxious sound that renders the crew inert, and
head off for parts unknown. They steal a shuttlecraft, land on a planet,
discover that all the vegetation in the lush garden they have discovered
is toxic, and are majorly bummed out, dude.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/23/91 15:51:23
Message Number 12587

>No.  Now they want to know every possible use for two washers and
>six feet of string.
 
What kind of washers?  The little ones you use on bolts, the kind you
stick your dirty shirts in so they come out clean, or the female type
standing by the river beating a shirt with some large object in an
attempt to get it clean (often found in late night barbarian movies)?
If it's the last one mentioned...  :)
[Your a bad influence on me...]
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 15:56:00
Message Number 12588

 A month down the road sounds good to me?  What about t-shirts?  Has
New College aqquired the equipment for making screens and shirts yet?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Oh, Please!    
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:07:45
Message Number 12589

JB> I might send it if ya ask nice. 
.
Oh, please, please. (batting eyelashing). 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Rare form      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:09:37
Message Number 12590

JB> I love outspoken people. 
.
It's easy to be outspoken when you are basically anonomous (sp?). 
But I think talking (typing) on the BBS about your opinions DO make 
you more outspoken in public. (I will NEVER, however, carry a soap box 
around with me.)
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Rock & Roll daz
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:12:01
Message Number 12591

I used to sing in a band called "Concept". They are no longer in
existance. Some of the guys are with "Savanah" and "Voyage", and still 
others are playing with themselves....er, I mean, well, you know what 
I mean!!!!
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:16:21
Message Number 12592

Your are against homosexuality as a life  style for yourself, that's 
fine. But you can't stop nor should you want to interfere with what 
someone else chooses to do. About the "dykes", I know a few Lesbian 
women. They are, with one execption, bitter towards men but in their
very behavior, they are men. The one exception is a very sexy, attractiv
woman......, I believe she is bi-sexual but I am not sure. She dates 
men occasionally but she prefers women as lovers. She is very out-
spoken about it. 
I agree that women do not find 2 men "doing the nasty" arousing. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:21:19
Message Number 12593

breakfast/lunch get together.....Rufuscom. 
Details please! I would like to go. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:24:59
Message Number 12594

JB> Beat me, hurt me. 
TS>Make me write bad checks
She might get out her nightstick, and hurt me real, real bad, on the 
roadside....... SHE GOT ME UNDER PRESSURE   (guitar rif) 
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: *********      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:53:18
Message Number 12595

> I still haven't any idea... can ya give me another clue?
    
Ok: how about this for a clue. The word looks something like this:
    
   CCCVCCCCC, where 'C' is a consonant, and 'V' is a vowel.
   The vowel is 'e', and the last letter is 's'.
    
Second new clue: the first letter is 's.'
Third new clue: I've used the word in a message to you, recently.
             /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 17:58:31
Message Number 12596

S> Men don't think "Lesbian" when they think of two women together.
S> They think "Hey, ladies, room for one more???" Like it's all some
S> kind of warm up to "the real thing".
   
Bingo. Most "macho" men can't imagine why any woman wouldn't want to
sleep with them. (Dripping with sarcasm)
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/23/91 18:04:18
Message Number 12597

But... but that would go against U.S. law! (completely fake shock)
    
  One of the better analyses I've seen about the war says that we're
not in Iraq, really, for either Kuwait or oil. The fact is: the U.S.
has been losing its "edge" over the rest of the world economically,
and the only way we have of keeping control is through our military.
(Which is still the largest in the world.)
              /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 18:23:18
Message Number 12598

Ding.
    
>I never could grok the distinction a lot of people see between
>relationships (ie. close friendships) and Relationships; to me they
>seem to be on a continuum, but a lot of people I've talked to seem
>to see them as qualitatively different.
    
   the only distinctions ('flavors') I've ever made in my relationships
was how close, physically, I've wanted to come to that woman, and how
closely I felt I could come to her (or, for that sake, him) mentally.
I've known many women who I've been very close to, mentally and emot-
ionally, but had no sexual interest in. I've also known many women who
I was extremely attracted to, but thought their brains were tapioca.
                   /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Lupine people  
Date & Time: 02/23/91 18:28:25
Message Number 12599

T> I've known /real/ scary women... Wolf isn't scary.
    
   Scary as in deadly? Not really. 
   Scary as in a personality taken to extremes? Yes... In many ways, I
/like/ Wolf, and appreciate her very physical nature, and her strong
opinions. Her extreme determination, and her, well... going to extremes
in everything scares me.
             /Dragonfly/
    
If you don't know who Wolf is, please ignore this message. If you do,
please don't mention it to her.
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/23/91 18:35:24
Message Number 12600

>What do you predict for the 90's?
   
  I'd say it'll be a slower decade than the last two, with more people
trying to settle down. Why? The Baby Boom is getting older, yet. They're
slowing down, so the rest of the U.S. should, right?
            /Dragonfly/
===========

From: DRAGONFLY           
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 18:41:30
Message Number 12601

Now, you've left me confused. Can I try to sum up your message #12542?
   
   One 'feminine' woman + One 'feminine' woman = Twice the 'femininity.'
   One 'masculine' guy + One 'masculine' guy = No masculinity.
    
   Do I have that straight? (Pardon my pun)
             /Dragonfly/
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: st             
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:08:50
Message Number 12602

SS>Mine is more vulcan sounding. 
.
Touche! But remember, Saavik came from the hostile world of Hellgaurd 
is part Romulan....... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:10:26
Message Number 12603

SS>U survived, and didn't resort to becoming plastic. 
You were lucky. So was I. My parents had a horrible relationship with 
each other, but my Mother was my "best friend". I also had and still 
do have good relationships with my sisters. I still say a child deprived
of love, will be an adult who doesn't know how to love. Just because 
parents don't get along with each other, doesn't mean they don't get 
along with their children. But it does make it difficult to teach a 
child about love and respect, when you don't have either for your 
spouse. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: You can't tell 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:14:10
Message Number 12604

My son is doing fine now. It was rough going for a while. After the 
incident (for lack of a better word), he had counceling from Matt 
Donavon's family unit (I can't remember the name, but it's connected to 
HRS). They made video tapes of his sessions for the trial but the 
defence attorney tried to get the tapes ruled inadmissable. Months 
passed, and then my Son was subuenaed (sp? you know what I mean) for 
deposition. So that dragged the whole thing up in his mind again. Then 
months later as the trial drew close, the defence tried the trick with
the video tape and wanted to call my son to the stand. I said "NO WAY". 
The asst. state's atty. Bob Lee (at the time) fought them tooth and 
nail. Luckily, we won that battle and the tape was ruled admissable 
evidence. The day of the trial (in fact it was during jury selection), 
the defence realized (by the responces of the prospective jurors) that
they didn't have a snowballs chance in hell. He plea bargained and 
accepted 30 years on a lesser charge. If he had been convicted of 
Sexual Battery, the mandantory sentence is LIFE. Well, at least he's
off the streets, eh??
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:22:59
Message Number 12605

SS>Where do you get this "we" shit? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
.
Maybe he's pregnant.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TIBERIUS            
Subject: How not to     
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:24:43
Message Number 12606

T> I'll have to get back in the swing of body language.... 
. 
Don't get "slapped" for staring......
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:26:46
Message Number 12607

KO> Without honesy and reality, people are just paper tigers in the wind
.
I like it!!! And I must agree. I was incorrect in saying that people 
from stable families, ect, grow up to be "real people". Maybe they 
have a better shot at it, but you are right in saying that people who 
have survived rough childhoods are usually stronger and more adapted 
to battle life's everyday trials. I sit corrected. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fish           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:29:53
Message Number 12608

Ok, I admit ignorance. I still don't know what you're talking about. 
The only kind of fish I know swim. Duh! What do you do with "these" 
fish, if I may ask?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:32:24
Message Number 12609

Yeah, yeah, you're right. I can't take this being wrong stuff. When I 
say instinct, I'm talking about "gut" feelings. Intuition. How many 
times have you relied on that? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:35:03
Message Number 12610

But the person from a traumatic childhood would have to learn their 
social skills from someone. Where would they start? Teachers? What if 
they were from the getto and had no substancial role models?
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Land mines     
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:37:48
Message Number 12611

You make a good point on the sexually transmitted diesize (sp?) issue. 
And I was orginally talking about intimate relationships and not one 
nighters. However, in your post about "jumping in", I thought you were 
referring to "picking up" people at bars and going from there. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Clubs          
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:40:16
Message Number 12612

The 90's......, or a new age of war mongers...... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:41:55
Message Number 12613

I agree to a point. I am "in love" with my best friend, and I am "in
love" with my husband. I could be "in love" with all my friends. But I 
wasn't discussing me. I was referring to what someone might mean when 
they made the statement, "I love you, but I am not "in love" with you." 
It's a cop out. It means that you want out of the sexual, monogomous 
relationship but you don't want to lose the friendship. Usually the 
person on the other end of the conversation is hurt and I think it's 
just a statement meant to soften the blow. At any rate, it doens't 
work. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Fav Shows      
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:47:44
Message Number 12614

But Doc Sevrin (was that his name?) died with a smile on his lips, 
didn't he? I'm going to Eden....yeah, yeah.....
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:51:19
Message Number 12615

DF> most macho men can't imagine why a woman wouldn't want to sleep 
with them 
.
I know the type. "Oh, baby, I got something for you......" (Puffing 
out his chest and sly glances at his friends) Barf!!!!!! A guy told
me one time he was a giant erection. I replied. "Yeah, you look like 
a big dick to me." 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: 90's           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:54:56
Message Number 12616

You think people are slowing down? I hope so, but from what I see, the
y are going 90 miles an hour. I'm talking the 30 to 40 year olds. 
Scratching and clawing to buy that new Beamer. I'm a working parent, I 
don't know what slow is anymore. But maybe the youngers are slowing 
down..... again, I hope so. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/23/91 19:58:08
Message Number 12617

You forgot one.
One "masculine" woman + one "masculine" woman = Puking man. 
If the two women look like Barbara Dare then it's a turn on. But what 
if it's Roseann Barr and Bett Midler. Ug!
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/23/91 21:54:35
Message Number 12618

TS> squashing Hussien would be that easy.
 
Actually - it's my thought that killing Hussein was never a goal of our
military planning. 1) it would make the jerk a martyr 2) They want to
humble the man publicly so that it will discourage similar actions in
the future.  Also it would discredit his remarks and support of 
a free Palestein and defuse any aid from that quarter ever again.
 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Fine.          
Date & Time: 02/23/91 21:57:26
Message Number 12619

TS> I don't wanna offend anyone 
 
WHOOOP WHOOP WHOOOP!!!!!  THe Mainifest Bullshit alarm just detected
a real whopper.  C'mon Dave.  Stick to your guns.  You stated for the
record that you were infallible.  It is well known that you hate gays.
Now... if you are infallible then there is no one to worry about 
insulting as you would be correct.  If you really hate gays then you
shouldn't worry about it anyway as you have already offended them and
can hardly worsen the stance that you have already taken.
 
                               A skeptical JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:02:56
Message Number 12620

TS> We are fighting to restore a government, irreguardless of 
TS> what that government is like.
 
Oh... so we really wanted Castro in power and the free Republic of China
(based in Taiwan) will get help from us to overthrow the communist 
bastards that chased them out.  Right?  You mean we didn't help the
loyal Afghanistanis chase the Russians out of their country?  C'mon
Dave - we have a piss-poor record of being upholders of justice.
 
TS> and if that's the way they want to run it, that's thier 
TS> business.  Or do you want to wish our way of running things on every
TS> one else, too? 
 
Good point - kind of makes you wonder whay we don't go the extra inch 
and mind our own business - wouldn't you say?  One might also say that
these people have been trading property via warfare since Abraham 4,000
years ago and that to them it may be just doing business as usual.
Again - is it OUR business to tell them how to behave?
 
                                            JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:09:40
Message Number 12621

TS> Er...yeah, I guess that he's ok.
Heheheheh - you really are a warm hearted bastard too!
 
                                           JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:11:07
Message Number 12622

TS> Either that or we know something that you haven't found out yet.
 
I guess that once the concrete sets - it really does tend to make 
change and acceptance of different ideas that much more difficult.
Too bad the wrong stuff was molded on before the stuff cured.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:13:01
Message Number 12623

TS> Make me write bad checks!  
Ok - (sotte voce) Dave!  Psssst!  Yeah you.... now listen vewy vewy
carefully.  You will awake in the morning.  You will feel great.
You will attribute it all to the wonderful warm glow you got from
accepting the Way of the Aardvark and have a deep appreciation of the
message that JonBoy gave you (even though the exact words slip away).
So grateful in fact that you will pick up your checkbook, pick up a pen
and donate $1,000 as a research grant to JonBoy and the
Way of the Aardvark Foundation.
                                           JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:17:52
Message Number 12624

SS> But I survived, and didn't resort to becoming plastic.
 
Well, against my better judgement (yes a real oxymoron!) here's a little
blurb that is paraphrased from a workshop that one of profs organized
in years gone by in dealing with dysfunctional families.
Typical of children raised in a hostile environment is the feeling that 
they are merely a pawn in a game of who's right with each parent trying
to get points by having more players on their side.  The struggle for
dominance is so intense that the children suffer in their sense of
self-worth because they percieve that they have no worth outside of
the power struggle framework.  These people in turn become dysfunctional
as they attempt to gain a feeling of worth by attaching themselves
to someone that will dominate them as this is what they have been 
conditioned to associate as "love".
Now I'm not trying to say anything about you personally because I don't
know you.  I do know that you have remarked on several failed relation-
ships and this may or may not relate to those.  A typical remark from
a girl that backed out of a realtionship may be that you were "hanging"
on her all the time.  Enough of the Pop-Psychobabble - What I guess I 
would really like to say is that there are many workshops that are
organized to help people that come from dysfunctional families and they
can help you understand how to cope with your feelings about it and
yourself.  I would recommend that you investigate and it may turn out 
that you will benefit in ways you never imagined.  Good luck bud.
 
	                                             JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:30:06
Message Number 12625

SS> I'm NOT a bigot. ... I believe that homosexuality is wrong I'm not 
SS> going to try to tell someone how to live, and kill them if they won'
SS> go straight .
 
Well, I admire what you are trying to say if you acknowledge that gay
people are in fact PEOPLE and deserve to be treated as such.  I don't
really know what to make of the staement that you beleive it is "wrong"
as that is usually associated with a moral judgement of sorts.
The message that I replied to came across as strong as most I have
seen from Dave and so I (maybe wrongly) assumed that you were in the
same camp.  Consistency counts for a lot when making a stand on
what you believe.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:36:23
Message Number 12626

KO> 
KO> I come from an alcoholic familily...
 
Then you are aware of course of an organization called "Adult Children
of Alcoholics" which is a subchapter of AA?  A very good organization.
One of my friends in Utah attended regularly as he came from an 
alcoholic family and he was finally learning to love his parents instead
of hating them.  Incidently, he also was alcoholic and attended AA also.
 
KO> Coming from a dysfunctional family can be a source of strength 
Coming from a dysfunctional family is a life-crippling event and should
be treated as such.  You may not even be aware of all the mental 
damage that you have sustained.
                                    :) JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:41:41
Message Number 12627

T> every possible use for two washers and six feet of string. 
I got one! I got one!  You drill a hole through the back of each washer
pass the string through the holes a tie a knot inside tthe drums.  Then
you move them apart until the string is taut and guess what!  If 
someone yells inside one washer - the string will carry the vibration
to the other washer and if someone has their head inside, he'll be
able to hear the other person yelling!  Wow!  Your own nifty Maytag
Communicators!  You really should practise makking the "ChrkChrkChrk"
sound of a real Star Trek communicator for realism.
                          A helpful JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:48:39
Message Number 12628

T>I can make these statements with absolute certainty; I know them for 
T> a /fact./
 
Not a valid sylogism and you know it.  I agree with what you say tho..
you did leave out a very important one that is responsible for an
awful lot
of hangups.  It is possible to go to bed with someone without being in
love with them.  Recreational sex if you will.  You realize of course
that you are walking on really shaky ground in American culture.  I
don't know why, but so many people confuse the word "love" with anything
but.  My best friend gets so uncomfortable when I tell him that I love 
him and his wife and kids.  He can accept the kids and his wife, but he
has a real problem with himself.  I can see it on his face.  Lest this 
statement cause any misunderstandings (not that it /should/ matter), I
am not either gay or bi - I'm as hetero as they come (or a die-hard
breeder as my gay friend puts it).  The word "love" has unfortunately
become tangled with the concept of sexual relationships and most
people don't know how to handle that on a social basis very well.
The greeks had three different words to describe the varying degrees
of the concept.  I wish we had delineations along those lines.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Oh, Please!    
Date & Time: 02/23/91 22:59:33
Message Number 12629

SA> Oh, please, please. (batting eyelashing).   
 
Such beahavior from a married woman - I'm scandalized! :)
Lemme dig in my bag of trix...
hmmm I couldn't find it real quick - sorry I'll look for it.
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Fav Shows      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 02:14:09
Message Number 12630

Sorry your input from "The Way to Eden" doesn't help.  May /there/ a 
episode I haven't seen. I've still photographs in the credits of other 
shows, perhaps that why I thought I've seen it. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: *********      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 02:20:30
Message Number 12631

Forget it, I can't get it. I'm sure I be kicking myself for it, but I 
give.  BTW, Turtle what was the word you came up with. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 02:22:18
Message Number 12632

I take it you consider yourself not to be "macho" or are you just 
"studly"?  :)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/24/91 02:25:02
Message Number 12633

DF> The fact is: ths U.S. has been losing its "ege" over the rest of the
world economically......
   
Wrong, we have been spending millions of dollars on this war, which 
it not helping our economy.  If riase our status as a "wealthy" country 
then, following your logic, we should stay out of the war, and let the 
other countries spent /their/ money on this war. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 02:36:20
Message Number 12634

SA> Barf...Yeah, you look like a big dick to me." 
  
Hehehehe...hhahahahahaha...breathe......
  
God that was funny, I'd to have been the asshole who said that to you. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 02:39:17
Message Number 12635

Ummm...where do you know Barbara Dare from? (perverted smile)
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 02:51:21
Message Number 12637

That's see if I can proper ly clairfy my stance on homosexuality. 
I think homosexuality is wrong morally.  But I believe homosexuals are 
also human none the less. Human's are prone to mistakes. The err is 
human....  I don't approve of discrimination as far as jobs and rights 
are concerned.  At the same time, I don't approve of homos adopting, 
being able to marry. Again, because of my moral standards.  But, agai, 
just as much human. I don't discriminate against them.  Like I said, 
I have had gay friends and gay co-workers.  As long as they respect me
and my sexual preference I have not problem with them.  One guy I 
worked with really pissed me off, he was always hitting on me.  He was 
a fairly new employee and needed direction.  I told him to go help 
some other employee because I would be done before him.  So he needed
to assist him so that the work would get done approximately at the same
time.  His response was' "yeah, and the next thing you're going to 
want me to do is, bend over and grab my ankles." Sick. sick. Sick. 
===========

From: SCOTT STEEL         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:00:23
Message Number 12638

KO> Coming from a dysfunctional family can be a source of stength. 
JB> Coming from a dysfunctional faily is a life-crippling event and 
shoukd treated as such. 
  
Well, I think you're both right, to an extent. KO is correct in the 
sense that some, not all but some, people can become stronger people. 
But on the other hand, JB is also correct in saying that that kind of 
situation can also have some damaging affects on the children as well.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:10:58
Message Number 12639

SS>and where do you get this "we" shit?  DO you have a mouse in
SS>your pocket?
 
Hey, shut up.  I was referring to me and other bigots (who hate fags).
I wouldn't include you in with us anyway.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:13:45
Message Number 12640

T>has no more redeeming merits than bigotry, selfishness, or any of the
T>other petty little concerns that more appropriately belong with
T>lizards...
 
Graaaak! 
 
                          - A bigoted, sauran Specialist
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:17:10
Message Number 12641

TS>Thank you Turtle for that analytical assessment.  Predictable.
 
T>Now what the hell was that all about?
 
Just that they were discussing things from an emotional standpoint,
you jumped in with a logical assessment...which was predictable.
 
T>Oooh...you wouldn't be thinking I was obliquely referrng to you, were
T>you?  Stop being so paranoid; that isn't what I meant.
 
Though I am not currently involved in any relationship with anyone,
I'm certain that if I was, I would not be *that* paranoid.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:19:54
Message Number 12642

T>"as it harms none, do as thou wilt"
 
Sound an awful lot like "Do unto others...".  Which pretty much is
what I meant. Take the 10 Commandments, for instance.  Don't steal,
don't bear false witness, don't kill, don't covet they neighbors wife,
things like that are pretty good guidelines and fairly easy to live 
by....  
 
 
 
After all, I don't remember the last time I killed someone anyway....
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:22:32
Message Number 12643

Forget it.  You are not worth the effort of trying to convince anymore.
You or John.  You are wrong, that's simple enough.  Trying to get you
to understand it is like pulling teeth from a chicken...or trying to 
reason with a brick wall.  
 
 
It doesn't matter anyway.  In a few short months, we'll have re-instated
the proper govnt anyway.  Just drop it.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:24:27
Message Number 12644

TS>Chuckle, snort guffaw!
 
T>Thanks for the vote of confidence, i think.
 
Welcome.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Rare form      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:26:35
Message Number 12645

S>But I think talking on a BBs about your opinions DO make your more 
S>outspoken in public.
 
I will say anytime...I hate fags.  And everyone knows it.  But overall,
I agree with that statement.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:28:32
Message Number 12646

S>You are against homosexuality as a lifestyle for yourself, that's
S>fine.  But you can't stop nor should you want to interfere with 
S>what someone else chooses to do.
 
I can't stop it, that's for certain.  And I don't want to interfere
per se, actually, I don't want anything to do with thon's lifestyle.
I simply am of the opinion that that particular person is sick, and
needs to be eradicated from the face of the earth.  Simple, yes?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:31:38
Message Number 12647

S>...She got me under pressure (riff0
 
Ah, ZZ-TOPS!  All of thier old stuff is excellent (riff!), dude!  But
their more recent stuff is not as good...I guess I'm just not turned 
on by blues.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:33:52
Message Number 12648

DF>the US has been losing its "edge" over the rest of the world 
DF>economically, and the only way we have of keeping control is through
DF>our military.  (Which is still the largest in the world.)
 
Wrong...on both counts.  Unit for unit, piece for piece, the Russian
military outnumbers ours.  (Except in subs.)  Whoever gave you those
facts was hopelessly mistaken.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:37:14
Message Number 12649

DF>Now you've got me confused.  Can I try to sum up your msg?
 
DF>One "Femme" + one "Femme" = Twice the "femme"
DF>one "Masc" + one "Masc" = No masc?
 
DF> Do I have that straight?
 
Not exactly...let me further clarify.  
 
One masculine *looking* guy + one masculine *looking* guy is not 
masculine at all.  What the hell is masculine about a pair of jucks 
up each others chutes?
 
One beautiful *looking* femme + one beautiful *looking& femme is
or looks twice as nice.  But two uglys with each other is twice as
ugly...and repulsive to boot.
 
Did I help your muddled mind at all?
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:42:48
Message Number 12650

SS>Where do you get this "we" shit?  Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
S> Maybe he's pregnant.
 
Maybe someone made an assumption and made an ass out of himself.  (But
not out of me, I hadda set him straight.)
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:46:15
Message Number 12651

Oh, right, my point exactly.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Fine.          
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:46:46
Message Number 12652

You better repair your MB alarm; apparently it is in dire need of 
maintainence.  I never stated that I was infallible.  And it is well 
known that I hate FAGGOTS.  And if I were infallible, then there is
or would be no one to insult, because I would be correct...but this 
is based on your ASSUMPTION that I think that I am infallible.  But 
there are people out there who act like gays and are not....
  
  Though, what you say is true.  If I say that someone acts gay and they
are as "open minded" as you and Turtle, then they shouldn't be offended
at being compared to someone who likes to stick his dick in "Outgoing
Only" places....  Or to some cocksucker.   
 
Am I being offensive yet?  Oh, so sorry.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:51:37
Message Number 12653

Usesless.  Simply useless.  It's quite clear that you simply can't
be convinced of the error of your way of thinking.  I refer you to
the message I wrote Turtle.
 
Have a nice day.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:52:39
Message Number 12654

JB>  Hehehe - you really are a warm hearted bastard too!
 
Oh, I have always had good things to say about you, John...no matter
how misinformed you are or however many incorrect conclusions you draw.
I've always said, yeah, that JB...he's a real SOB. 
 
But SOB can stand for Swell ol' Boy, too.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:54:34
Message Number 12655

TS> Either that or we know something that you haven't found out yet.
 
JB>...once the concrete sets -...[blah, blah].  Too bad the wrong stuff
JB>was molded on before the stuff cured.
 
Save your sympathy for yourself, JB.  I should be the one sympathising
for your misguided person.
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 03:57:06
Message Number 12656

No, no...you don't get it!  It's part of an expression...
 
Hurt me, beat me, make me write bad chekcs!
===========

From: THE SPECIALIST      
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Homos in the WP
Date & Time: 02/24/91 04:02:10
Message Number 12657

SS>"the next thing you're gont to want me to do is to bend over and 
SS>grab my ankles. "  SIck, sick, sick.
 
I couldn't have said it better than that.  Except I might have added
how I proceded to grab the nearest single weapon and beat the man
senseless.  (Whatever came to hand.)  I swear to God if it were in
my power I would have.  I swear to GOD.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:34:07
Message Number 12658

Good post. (about the workshops for children from dysfunctional families
Many people don't realize how affected they were by their family 
problems until they start talking about it. Posting on this BBS is good
therapy, too. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:37:34
Message Number 12659

JB> (using Maytag communicator) You really should practise making the 
"ChrkChrkChrk" sound of a real Star Trek Communicator....
.
It would bring a whole new meaning to "Beam me up, Scotty." 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:40:07
Message Number 12660

What three words did the Greeks have to describe the different
variations of love.          -----A Curious Saavik 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:41:44
Message Number 12661

Hey, JB. I'm married, I'm not dead. I still know how to bat my eyelashes
It's a skill we women NEVER forget. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: The way to Eden
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:43:07
Message Number 12662

You must have seen it......, remember, one of the women in the "hippie" 
group was an old flame of Chekov's? The "hippie" group was running 
around the Enterprise trying to "corrupt" the crew into following them. 
It was one of the earlier T.V. shows that addressed "Cults"..... There
have been many since but not ST. Dr. Sevrin was the "hippie" leader. 
A brilliant but insane man. (evil genius). Sevrin had a deadly 
diseise that threatened anyone who wasn't immune to it. Spock took 
over the search for Eden. The last scene of the episode showed Dr. 
Sevrin hanging dead in a tree after taking a bite of a toxic fruit. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:51:34
Message Number 12663

It didn't phase him a bit. He just smiled and started advertising free 
pap smears to all the women at the party. You just can't insult some 
people........
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:52:39
Message Number 12664

SS>Where do you know Barbara Dare from? (perverted smile) 
.
No comment..... (batting eyelashes again)
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 08:54:18
Message Number 12665

In reference to the gay employee..... there are extremists everywhere. 
Just as their are "flaming" gays, their are women who constantly make 
suggestive remarks..., It doens't mean that they actually MEAN them. 
I worked with a guy that kept hitting on me and I know for a fact that 
if I had taken him seriously, he would have run for the hills. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Amen           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 09:00:03
Message Number 12666

TS> Simple, yes?
.
OH, yes. Very simple......
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 09:00:52
Message Number 12667

I don't prefer ZZ tops new stuff either. I really like the older tunes 
like Tush, Heard it on the..., you know what I mean??? I also am 
astonished that the Doobie Brothers managed to sell that last album. 
Talk about ripping on old songs by putting new lyrics....., Arg. 
===========

From: KNIGHT OWL          
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Rock & Roll daz
Date & Time: 02/24/91 09:49:46
Message Number 12668

S>... and still others are playing with themselves...er, I mean, well, 
you know what I mean!!!!
 
I got a good laugh outta that!
I beleive the word that escaped you was 'solo'.
 
SEE YA!
Knight Owl
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: KNIGHT OWL          
Subject: Rock & Roll daz
Date & Time: 02/24/91 12:43:09
Message Number 12669

Yeah, absolutely, solo was what I meant. They are playing and singing to
the walls...... Ah, they'll be back in bands before long.., it gets in 
your blood. "It's like bad medicine." 
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:06:53
Message Number 12670

>What kind of washers?
 
The kind you stick a golf ball in and move the handle thing up and down,
of course. What else?
 
>[Your a bad influence on me...]
 
I don't hang out with the wrong kind of people, I AM the wrong kind of
people! :)
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:08:09
Message Number 12671

>A month down the road sounds good to me?
 
Okay, I'll plan it then? Assuming it's cool with everyone else?
 
>Has New College aqquired the equipment for making screens and shirts
>yet?
 
I don't know. It's possible that Nick can do it, though...I should look
into it. *Sigh*
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:12:22
Message Number 12672

>Details please!
 
The Suncoast City Joint Indoor Monthly Picnick occurrs about once a
month, usually at ten AM, in some relatively obscure and inexpensive
restaraunt (lately Chef Paul's has been a favorite, but they've
also taken place in the hospital cafeteria, at the now-defunct Le
Croissant, and other bizzare places). RufusCon is a very large annual
convention in honor of our very own Rufus that takes place in my
apartment. The last RufusCon (RufusCon '90) attracted more than
forty people, and a live band...I kid you not.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:15:44
Message Number 12673

>...the only way we have of keeping control is through our military.
>(Which is still the largest in the world.)
 
Begging your pardon, but our military is NOT the largest in the world
and isn't even close. It is the best-trained, best-equipped military
force in the world, and it's one of the very few left that's still all-
volunteer, but it is far from the largest. China and the Soviet Union
both have about /twice as many/ active military personnel...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: DRAGONFLY           
Subject: Lupine people  
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:18:30
Message Number 12674

>If you don't know who Wolf is, please ignore this message.
 
Get serious. I'm very familiar with the lady in question. Yes, she gets
carried away with just about everything she does, but I don't find that
"scary" at all...simply mildly annoying.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: fish           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:21:32
Message Number 12675

Post-It fish also swim, but if they don't swim in pairs (stuck
together) they tend to get stuck to other things, like rocks and
boats and other fish. At least they peel off easily, though.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:22:34
Message Number 12676

>When I say instinct, I'm talking about "gut" feelings. Intuition.
>How many times have you relied on that?
 
I always /listen to/ my gut feelings, but I try not to /rely/ on them
at all.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:23:43
Message Number 12677

People can find role models anywhere--friends, teachers, etc, etc.
You learn by doing, and that goes with social skills as much as with
anything else. It's more difficult if your family is an unhappy one,
but it isn't impossible.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Wax paper      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:25:38
Message Number 12678

>It ["I love you, but I'm not 'in love' with you] is a cop out.
 
Ding.
 
>It means you want out of the sexual, monogamous relationship but you
>don't want to lose the friendship.
 
...therefore implying that the statement "I love you" means "I am
emotionally intimate with you" and "I am in love with you" means "I'm
sexually attracted to you." You wouldn't think it'd be that easy to
confuse love and lust.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:31:18
Message Number 12679

>...donate $1,000 as a research grant to JonBoy and the Way of the
>Aardvark Foundation.
 
Hey! The Way of the Aardvark, as all /true/ disciples know, is the
way to spiritual enlightenment, not financial gain! You shall be
condemned to a world without Mountain Dew if you continue this false
teaching, you know...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: What does it?  
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:34:36
Message Number 12680

>Wow! Your own nifty Maytag Communicators!
 
Well, I must admit that was one I didn't think of...what are all the
rest?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Helicopters    
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:35:38
Message Number 12681

>Not a valid syllogism and you know it.
 
It wasn't a syllogism at all. I was not trying to imply that it's true
because I know it to be so; I know it's true because I have seen it
firsthand, on several occasions.
 
>...love has become entangled with the concept of sexual relations and
>most people don't know how to handle that on a social basis very well.
 
Ding. Same goes for physical affection--most people assume any 
affectionate physical contact between a man and a woman is inherently
sexual in nature. Silliest damn idea I ever heard of.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: *********      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:38:29
Message Number 12682

>BTW Turtle, what was the word you came up with.
 
"Strengths." Adjective form "strong"; spelled completely differently.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:43:10
Message Number 12683

>Just that they were discussing things from an emotional standpoint,
>you jumped in with a logical assessment...which was predictable.
 
Naturally I'm the sort of person with a computer for a brain who makes
Mr. Spock look downright warm and friendly, huh?  Hardly--I was just
pointing out that if you base your relationships strictly on emotional
reactions and never bother to think about what you're doing, you become
a statistic (of the "three quarters of all couples who married in the
eighties will end up divorced" variety [Omni, March 1991]). 
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: Give God agin  
Date & Time: 02/24/91 13:46:24
Message Number 12684

>Sounds an awful lot like "Do unto others..."
 
No, the Wiccan idea is much more sophisticated than the Golden Rule.
The Golden Rule applies ONLY to the way you interact with other people;
for example, if you are burying toxic waste outside some town somewhere,
it can be argued that you aren't doing anything to anyone else (at least
not directly), where the Wiccan idea would very clearly consider this
behavior immoral. Ditto for cutting down rainforests. The Wiccan ideal
is both broader and better able to guide interpersonal interactions.
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: curious        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 16:15:40
Message Number 12685

Will Rufuscon 90 be by invitation only? Will this auspicious occasion 
be posted??? A live band beats a dead band, you know...... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: fish           
Date & Time: 02/24/91 16:17:37
Message Number 12686

Post it fish sound flat as a flounder to me. I prefer bass. But they 
get stuck on things too. Weeds, underwater trees, and of course, our 
friends, the alligator. 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 16:18:53
Message Number 12687

It is wise not to rely on "gut feeling" alone. But have you found that
as you grow older, your "gut feelings" grow wiser? 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 16:20:09
Message Number 12688

True, there are role models everywhere but they are not always good ones
People from love deprived childhoods are apt to choose the wrong role 
models. (I may regret saying that). It just seems to me, that many of 
the people trying to influence the youth of today, are not that great 
of role models.... 
===========

From: SAAVIK              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Wax paper      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 16:22:08
Message Number 12689

T> You wouldn't think it'd be that easy to confuse love and lust 
(speaking of plastic people and I love you I am not in love with you) 
.
Ding...back at ya. 
I hate using this term again and again, but "plastic people" are usually
self centered. Love is great, but it can get pretty boring compared to 
the "newness" of infactuation. I think thats why certain individuals 
might coin that phrase "I love you but....". Love is a bond that grows 
with time and doesn't fade because somebody "better" comes along. Lust 
is a flash in the pan, once it's satisfied and everyday reality seeps 
in, it's too cold to hang around. 
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Give Peace agin
Date & Time: 02/24/91 20:53:27
Message Number 12691

SS> Wrong, we have been spending millions of dollars on this war, which
SS> it not helping our economy.
 
Actually - a major war should be very good for the economy as it
stimulates R&D and gets rid of the weapons stockpile which will need
to be replentished and also the major surge in services purchased by
the govt in support of the war effort.  sad to say war makes money.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Slammed        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 20:56:57
Message Number 12692

SS> His response was' "yeah, and the next thing you're going to 
SS> want me to do is, bend over and grab my ankles." Sick. sick. Sick.  
 
Actually - the analogy of "getting bent over" is quite common in the
workplace with the corresponding "getting the shaft", "grease it up
before you go in" etc etc.  Mayhaps you misunderstood.  I have only had
one gay "hit" on me and it was only because he felt comfortable enough
with me to know that I would not be offended.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SCOTT STEEL         
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:00:46
Message Number 12693

SS> some, not all but some, people can become stronger people.
 
Is that strength merely a hard shell to keep the world out?  The word
strength carries a lot of connotations and unfortunately in our
society the male is expected to be the "strong silent type".  I would
that men in this country could learn to hug as a good start.  Americans
are considered to be a very cold impersonal people by the erst of the
world.  American men have a personal space of about 18" for friends
and about 25" to 36" for strangers.  Europeans reduce that amount by
half for interpersonal communication and Arabs get right in each others
face.  They say that they need to "share breath" as a sign of friend-
liness.  Arab men also hold hands with their friends which has caused 
more than one misunderstanding with Americans.  Heck with it.  My 
personal campaign is to hug anyone that is dear to me and f*ck anyone
that feels it isn't manly.
                                  JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: "Slapped"      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:08:16
Message Number 12694

TS> TS> Graaaak!    - A bigoted, sauran Specialist
 
I love it Dave!  Y'know I actually have a book dealing with
interpersonal relationships on the job called "Dinosaur Brains" and
the authors premise is that most people problems are in fact caused
by our remnant of our dinosaur brain taking control before the cortex
can get ahold of it.  He refers to it as Lizard Logic and says that 
all things can be expressed as variations of these ancient drives:
Get it Now - (impatience)
Fight, Flight or Fright
Pecking Order (it's lonely at the top)
The Captain Kirk Management Style (the actual chapter heading!)
Mating Urges
etc etc.
Best book I ever bought on the subject and it is actually fun to read
and he offers very good realistic coping strategies.
BOOK: Dinosaur Brains
(or how to deal with/Those/ impossible people at work)
Albert J. Bernstein  John Wiley publications
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: THE SPECIALIST      
Subject: welcome        
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:20:59
Message Number 12695

TS> I should be the one sympathising for your misguided person. 
 
Ok - you have my permission.  I will leave my thoughts clear and wait 
for that warm wave of sympathy to come rolling in and wash me in your
infinite compassion and understanding.
C'mon Dave - quit being so damned snotty.  You used to be able to 
disagree without getting personal and/or obnoxious.  I have even 
defended your right to bigotry because it IS your right.  Let's
lay off the personal attacks.  I'm sorry if the snide comments about
concrete sting.  I intend them to.  I try very hard to make them
slightly indirect and funny so that you can tell that I don't mean
them in a hateful derogatory fashion.  We can disagree and call each
other jerks but still remain gentlemen - ok?
 
                                             JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Workshops      
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:29:25
Message Number 12696

SA>Posting on this BBS is good  therapy, too.
 
I dunno - I have visions of The Specialist taking a bayonet to his
personal "Gay Bob" doll after he logs off here.  It may cause a lot 
of stress for some people.
:)                            JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: What doesn't it
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:31:09
Message Number 12697

SA> It would bring a whole new meaning to "Beam me up, Scotty."  
 
Yeah - I got it!  we change it from a string to a vacuum hose and
rig a cuisinart inside the drum.  You climb in, turn it on and after 
it has blended you the hose sucks you to the other end.  Ummmm  the
technology on the other end needs work though...
 
                                  A sick JonBoy
                               (at least Wratt sez so)
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Plastic people 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:33:23
Message Number 12698

SA> What three words did the Greeks have to describe the different 
SA> variations of love.          -----A Curious Saavik 
 
Umm jeez put me on the spot!  My memory is going with advanced age and
the senility don't help...
AGAPE' - transcendent love used to describe the type of love that God
         has for man or man for his fellow man.
THELO' - love ascribed to things - like women love shoes, the fella 
         that is in love with his new corvette etc.
Phileo - Love between friends, family, acquaintences.
 
It is helpful anytime (if you read the Bible) you see the word "love"
to look up in a good concordance exactly what type of love is being
referred to.
                                       JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: SAAVIK              
Subject: Scandalized    
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:40:08
Message Number 12699

SA> Hey, JB. I'm married, I'm not dead. I still know how to bat my 
SA> eyelashes It's a skill we women NEVER forget.
 
Lest you get out of practice hey? (heheh) anyway I did keep my promise 
and dug it out.  Here is my (semi) famous Bill Bixie Cat.  Please note
that the leftmost reverse comma SHOULD be a back-slash but this BBS
software thinks that's end of line. Her tis.
+-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
     _  /|              ]
    ` o O'             ]
     =(_v_)=            ]
     / U               ]
   Ack! Phht!          ]
 --* JonBoy *--        ]
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+
Ummm - please adjust your set - may have had tabs in it.  The ears and
oops excuse - the whiskers and cheeks need to be moved left one characte
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Aardvarkians!! 
Date & Time: 02/24/91 21:48:09
Message Number 12700

T> condemned to a world without Mountain Dew if you continue this
T>false teaching, you know...
 
Tis written (wherever that tome may be) that there will be many false
teachers of The One True Way.  Errrr I'm trying to flush them out!
Honest!
                     An underground disciple JonBoy
===========

