From: TURTLE              
To: SAURON              
Subject: Hard Drives    
Date & Time: 04/29/90 20:50:48
Message Number  4051

A 40ms hard drive is fine for a BBS that probably isn't going to be
transmitting stuff at more than 2400 baud to begin with, but I suspect
for anything else it would become rather annoying rather quickly--
particularly since AmigaDOS never was noted for its speed even in the
best of circumstances. I'd say if the trade-up to a faster hard drive
were available for the small price Tyler was talking about, it'd
probably be worth the investment.
 
Of course, I also have an inherent distrust of hard drives from the
start...
                --A floppy Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT E             
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 04/29/90 20:55:11
Message Number  4052

People don't deserve respect for the amount of money they make;
people deserve respect because they earn it. Pee Wee's income doesn't
impress me any more than his infantile humor or his amazing lack of
acting ability.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Z stuff        
Date & Time: 04/29/90 20:59:44
Message Number  4053

Ghi! My sympathies; turnkey menu software is bad enough on a micro,
but on something like a Vax it's obscene.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Hacker stuff   
Date & Time: 04/29/90 21:02:33
Message Number  4054

>Assembly is only efficient if you stay away from macros and if you
>program anything of serious size you /will/ use macros...
 
Not me! I do everything in straight assembly, no macros, nuttin'.
I write two thousand line routines without macros...'course I do
have to maintain my reputation as a masochist, so maybe that's it.
                     --A self-abusive Turtle
I do, in fact, have 6ms floppies. Trouble is, I have a really good CP/M
C compiler that was written with a Cromemco machine under C-DOS,
using some funky double-sided format that none of my alien disk format
utilities can recognize (it claims to be standard C-DOS DSDD but it
ain't, so I can't get to it...and I don't even have access to the
Cromemco machine that wrote the floppies in the first place). Such is
life, mine at least.
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: WHOMEVER            
Subject: Hi             
Date & Time: 04/29/90 23:35:39
Message Number  4055

Just a message to say "Hello" to everyone.  I haven't signed on in 
awhile and am behind in the gossip.  If anyone has any really good
dirt, post it.
===========

From: SCOTT E             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: money          
Date & Time: 04/30/90 06:51:30
Message Number  4056

well unfortunately I am money hungry, and If someone makes a lot of
money doing something legal then I respect them. I do not care if 
they earn it or not. If I could be given a million dollars for
no reason I wouldn't feel any worse then if I had earned it. That
is just the way I am. A little greedy I guess., but oh well. see yaaaa
===========

From: SCOTT E             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: puked invaders 
Date & Time: 04/30/90 06:57:01
Message Number  4057

I gotta tell ya Ken. This movie was kinda dumb. It kinda reminded me
of the evre popular Meatballs 2. You mean you didn't see that. too bad.
Well the movie wasn't too bad, most Disney movies are okay. I think
they should spend their money a little wiser though on movie ideas. You
know maybe like SNOW WHITE DOES THE SEVEN DWARFS, OR MAYBE ALICE'S DEEP
THROAT. But hey those are just my ideas. All kidding aside, it's not 
quite TMNT but it holds your interest and you'll even laugh a few times
especially with the quiptic quotes they seem to come up with.
seeee yaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ROAD RALLY     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:08:58
Message Number  4058

>If radar detectors were illegal, do you think you could walk in to
>K-mart or Radio Shack and pick one up?
      
   In a word, yes. Although radar detectors (I believe) are technically
illegal, as far as I know, there is no punishment for owning one. As
I said, there was a compromize in Congress: to raise the speed limit to
65, radar detectors had to go.
                  Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:11:54
Message Number  4059

>All our laws are /not/ really laws at all...
     
   What laws are you thinking of? The "classical" laws of Physics have
been known to be falso for over a hundred years. They're just really
good approximations. Quantum physics says that any "laws" one comes up
with -- no matter how accurate -- can ONLY be good approximations.
The physical laws never were laws. Ever.
     
   Going back to metaphysics, God, and all, yeah -- our conception of
God is very much based on Roman ideas. If Star Trek stole from Roman
mythology, they might have also stolen from Judeo-Christian ideas.
                       Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: THRUD               
Subject: Am I here?     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:15:34
Message Number  4060

(Taking a look at the time of your message.) Methinks thou didst
behold the Crack of Dawn. Melikes young hobbits. They makes wonderful
breakfastses.
              <Gollum, gollum>
              Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Missiles       
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:21:42
Message Number  4062

>I'd prefer to spend it on something that doesn't go "Ffffffft!"
     
   Ya mean a VAX doesn't hum?
      
   Now, come on, Turtle -- you don't think a small Stinger missile
might not slow down the Airport problem for a short while? At least
it would make the pilots REAL nervous.
                 Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Religion...    
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:24:25
Message Number  4063

>It doesn't make any sense to talk about the time before the universe
>because in a very real sense time did not exist before the universe
>did.
      
    Right. Time requires matter to exist. Without matter, no time.
Singularities (like the matter before the Big One) aren't really matter.
Okay. Gotcha. 
    Love fragments. Good device. Grunts. Use 'em later.
               Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:27:18
Message Number  4064

>And what about the theory that the planets are just atomic particles
>in a very very very large other system.
     
    Uhhh..... right. There are similarities between atomic particles
and electrons (they both revolve around something in the center),
but there are HUGE differences:
    1. Electrons are "fuzzy" in the sense that they don't really exist
       in any one place. They're more wave than particle. (Look up
       De Broglie (sp?) for more info.) Planets, so far as I can tell,
       are solid -- and not spread out.
    2. Planets seem to keep to the rule: one planet, one orbit.
       In the first orbit, atoms have two orbits, then they have six
       orbits, then ten. (Unless they're excited -- which I'm not
       getting into.)
   
     3. An atom is unstable when it has more electrons than protons.
        (Generally.) This solar system has nine (or more) planets;
        one "proton" (of a sun.) In a miniaturized world, this would
        be H-9 -- a REAL bitch of an element to find. (One person, a
        Wally B. Whatnot, once claimed to have found it. He also claimed
        to know Bigfoot personally, and called UFO people "some of his
        best friends.)
    
   On the other hoof, it's real likely that any chemical laws of that
"superuniverse" above us are completely different than any laws down
here -- so all of my arguments might flop completely. But, I hope not.
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Godtalk        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:38:15
Message Number  4065

Shoot everyone who disagrees with you?
            Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:38:46
Message Number  4066

>If I said Ted Bundy was from Sarasota, would you automatically offer
>him respect?
      
Yup.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DELPHI              
Subject: Godtalk        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 07:51:00
Message Number  4067

Dear Delphi,
   Okay. I'm understanding you, now. Here are my beliefs, agreements,
and disagreements.
   I believe that although spirit is tied to matter, it is separatable
from matter. A dead person -- so far as I can tell -- has no spirit
remaining to animate him.
   Again, I believe in the separation of the Godhood from the universe
itself. If I read you correctly, do you deify existance? That is, is
the sum total of life the god that there is?
   Whether or not other planes exist -- to me seems an insolvable 
problem, given the technology we have now. I can't prove they exist; I
can't prove they don't exist. I will believe in them when I have some
sort of proof: either a creature from another plane stops here and
does something which is inexplicable otherwise -- or, one of us visits
another plane -- or, the need for alternate planes of reality is shown
by a physicist to explain phenomina. I can see no conceivable way to
prove they don't exist -- but I don't consider that sufficient to believ
in them.
   As I've mentioned innumerable times before, I'm a born-again
Christian -- and a little conservative in terms of my definition of
Deity. But, I seek out people who disagree with me -- to help me
define myself and my God further. (Yup! Disagree. When someone agrees
with you, they're not likely to search very deeply within your logic
for errors.) It sounds as if you're a very intelligent person, and I'd
love to contnue discussing philosohy and religion with you.
                  Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Hi             
Date & Time: 04/30/90 08:03:59
Message Number  4068

>If anyone has any really good dirt, post it.
      
   Well, horse apples aren't usually welcome on any system...
         
                  \/            /
                  Chip P. Unicorn
                                    oo
                                          
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: ALL                 
Subject: Good News!     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 12:43:16
Message Number  4069

I have sold my 128D for $300!  Cowabunga, dudes!  This be really awesome
I guess I have enough money for my Hard Drive now, so look forward to 
the new BBS pretty soon!
 
-Ken Ober-
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 16:12:57
Message Number  4071

  I know, it was stupid. It was REAL stupid, but some stupidity is quite
amusing sometimes... About walking out, I didn't walk out on anything 
ever, but I do remember a man walking out on "Great Balls of Fire" (I 
don't blame him) and he left too late. The movie ended two minutes later
... He mumbled something like "This was shit, I want my money back".
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SCOTT E             
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 16:16:39
Message Number  4072

  I think I found "Police Academy 6" the worst movie of the decade. I 
might sit through another PA film, but not a single one of 'em twice. 
That's saying something, too, because I can stand just about anything. I
actually enjoyed watching "Private School" and "Howard the Duck".
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Religion...    
Date & Time: 04/30/90 16:22:45
Message Number  4073

> This is usually not a good assumption...
 
 I agree.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 04/30/90 16:24:03
Message Number  4074

  > So Go is like that Giant Roman dude in that one Star Trek episode...
 
  I hope you realize how inane that statement is.
  Well, I guess it might not be stupid, but it sounds odd. If you really
want to make your point, say something serious. For instance, someone 
today told me about a film that shows the fetus trying to avoid an 
abortion. It sounds scary enough to convert a pro-choicer to a pro-lifer
... (I didn't see the film though)
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: article        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 16:34:30
Message Number  4075

  Never thought of that (why, I wonder)... Out of 13 types my friend and
I created, only three are about local furries (one on Bart, one on 
Turtle, and one on Tyler's lounge lizard)... the others go something 
like these:
 
 Rodenta Chipndalus (biped talking chipmunks)
 Felinus Tomus (silent cats)
 Felinus Sylvesterus (talking cats)
 Felinus Emceeskatus (rapping cats)
 
  There, I figure everyone would get those! (By the way, I assume that 
other people in other states know what Rufuses are since there was one 
in Mythagoras)...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: Movies????     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 16:41:16
Message Number  4076

  Why be ashamed? TMNT actually was a good movie. Not the best of the 
year by far, no heavy symbolism or drama, but it was entertaining. I 
also got the feeling that the appeal to older filmgoers is that this 
film isn't taking itself seriously, even though the kids do...
  SPACED INVADERS? Well, I REALLY want to see it. If it has funny jokes,
good, but if it falls flat, send it back to Mars.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: SCOTT E             
Subject: call the doctor
Date & Time: 04/30/90 16:44:18
Message Number  4077

  First of all, don't trust that review! The idiot has the film confused
with the add campaign. If you watch the commercial carefully, it isn't 
Spring Break, it's Halloween!
 
  I myself wouldn't feel ashamed walking into any movie. I would go see 
a cartoon or an R rated film with the same state of mind. Or should I 
rephrase: a G or R rated film.
 
  I intend to see "Fantasia" when it is re-released. Any animation 
people out there want to make a party or something out of it? I know a 
lot of us are into animation.
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: ALL                 
Subject: * HA! *        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 17:04:36
Message Number  4078

FROM THE JUNE ISSUE OF AMIGA WORLD MAGAZINE:  Specs on the /very/
recently released Amiga 300 computer....
 
o 68030/882 @ 25 MHz
o Amiga Enhanced Chip Set (ECS)
o 1 meg Chip RAM expandable to 2 megs on board
o 1 meg Fast RAM expandable to:
     4 Megs on motherboard w/ 256 * 4 DRAMS
     16 Megs on motherboard w/ 1K * 4 DRAMS
o Built-In Display Enhancer (eliminates interlace flicker)
o Internal SCSI Hard Drive (40 Megs Std. -- 100 Megs Opt.)
o Internal Real-Time Clock w/ RAM
o 4 New Zorro III Expansion Slots (Downward Compat. w/ A2000)
o 1 CPU expansion connector  (200-Pin w/ processor-takeover capability)
o External expansion connectors
     23-pin Amiga video (15.75 KHz typical)
     15-pin VGA-style video (31.5 KHz typical)
     External SCSI connector
o 32-Bit access to on-board ROM
o 32-bit CPU access to chip RAM
o 32-bit fast-RAM support Custom Controller supporting static-column
  mode DRAMs and allowing CPU burst access to RAM
o 32-bit DMA-based on-board SCSI controller
o Low-profile case supporting total of three 3.5" drives
o Front-mounted power switch
o Easier disk-drive installation and removal
o Hardware and software support for 60Hz video on European machines
 
The computer is packaged with AmigaDOS 2.0 (With a "NeXT Look")
1.7 Gigabytes of RAM total
1280 x 400 maximum resolution
 
PRICES:  Amiga 3000 (25MHz/40 MB) -- $3999
         Amiga 3000 (25MHz/100 MB) -- $4499
         Amiga 3000 (16MHz/40 MB) -- $3299
         A1950 Monitor (For New Graphics Modes) -- $799
         A2060 ARCNET Card -- $229
         A2065 Ethernet Card -- $349
 
A 40 Mhz version of the A3000 is on the way to compete with the new
486 IBM's and MAC II FX's...
 
It also has a TURBO IBM XT card availible -- No word on UNIX, tho...
 
-Ken Ober-
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Hi             
Date & Time: 04/30/90 17:45:00
Message Number  4079

     Hello Angel,  It is nice to have you back.  I guess the only real
gossip has to do with computers, and we all know I know nothing about
that.  But hello anyway.
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: CRYSTAL             
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Radar Detectors
Date & Time: 04/30/90 17:48:44
Message Number  4080

     Chip, you need to get a radar detector.
                              * CRYSTAL *
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: ALL                 
Subject: The Shadow     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 18:09:22
Message Number  4081

The Shadow's back up folks, 23hrs a day (Don't call between four and
five am, that's Fidonet Mail Hour)  
(813) 359-1717  I'll be getting whatever interesting echo's I can find,
but call now, and get some discussions going!
===========

From: DELPHI              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 18:20:40
Message Number  4082

As far as denominational affiliation, I'm a Unitarian Universalist,
which means we honor the basic worth and dignity of everyone, but other
than that we have no creed. We ask questions. We are seekers of the
truth. Mostly, we seek diversity. That's why I found a philosophical/
spiritual home there -- there's no set dogma and questioning is
encouraged.
So, as for god/goddess, my feeling is that the god-consciousness is
greater than the sum of the parts (all of existence), but not a separate
entity or being. I believe we all (even Plato's chairs) have some of
this god-essence in ourselves and perhaps that this essence is the spark
that gives us both connectedness with the spiritual and independent free
will.
Other planes, which I prefer to call dimensions, aren't that relevant
since we live in this one, although I do believe they exist. I never
considered why because that didn't  Maybe it's worth
thinking about...
What was next? Well, I suppose you'll remindr  (problem keyboard)
remind me. It's good to have dialog about things philosophical, altho
I may be a bit radical for you depending on your view of Christianity.
 Have you ever read any work by Mary Daly?
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 04/30/90 19:55:05
Message Number  4084

Say hello to the nihilists?? 
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Hard Drives    
Date & Time: 04/30/90 19:59:18
Message Number  4085

Whether a 40ms drive will bother you depends upon a few things:
 
 1. Whether you plan to run a defagg'r on the drive semi-regularly
 2. What the data transfer rate is.
 
 I've got a Miniscribe 40Mbyte (when used w/ MFM) drive that's running
on an Adaptec RLL controller.. The Average track to track seek is about
60ms, but the Data Transfer Rate is 10Mb/S  (That's bits, not Bytes) 
If I don't run an Optimizer for a few weeks, I'll start to notice.. but
now frontdoor does a maintenance event every day, and defrags both
partitions.. if it's ms or Megs... go for Megs!!
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: SCOTT E             
Subject: money          
Date & Time: 04/30/90 20:04:51
Message Number  4086

I respect people more if they make their money illegally w/o hurting 
anyone.. more challenge!
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: ROAD RALLY     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 20:05:57
Message Number  4087

You're wrong Chip!!! Some states (/Without/ consent from the FCC have
made Radar Detectors illegal.. It is /not/ a federal law, and oversteps
the State's jurisdiction.  You /can/ listen to the radio all you want!
 
                         - Corwyn
 
 P.S. All radar detectors sold in the US have been Certified By the FCC!
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 04/30/90 20:10:12
Message Number  4088

as to 2. Planets seem to keep to the rule: one planet, one orbit. 
 
 Have you ever tried to observe a planet from a higher level of 
galactic magnitude.. moot point.
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Godtalk        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 20:11:30
Message Number  4089

I was in a bad mood.. actually you could just shoodt Berggren and I'd
be OK.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: RICHARD             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: TURTLE POWER!  
Date & Time: 04/30/90 20:48:20
Message Number  4090

I saw it, took my grandchildern, I
enjoy it a lot more then I through  
I would..:)
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: ROAD RALLY     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 21:09:18
Message Number  4093

>NO amount of stealth material, radar jammers...can stop that...
Yea, but a missle would do the job.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Gee.....       
Date & Time: 04/30/90 21:16:35
Message Number  4094

I'd be more concerned about the strength of the apartment.  Those 
mainframes are just a wee bit heavy.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Anarchy Now    
Date & Time: 04/30/90 21:19:29
Message Number  4095

>...who used to take an E-tool to Ft. Lauderdale Beach with him and dig
>tank traps...
 
What's an E-tool?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ANGEL               
Subject: Hi             
Date & Time: 04/30/90 21:46:12
Message Number  4096

Welcome back to the wonderful (?) world of BBS land.  I have some 
really good dirt, but it's in the front yard.  Posting it would be the
death blow to our sickly grass.
 
  ...anyone wanna help me seal all the sprinkler systems around town?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: BEATLE              
Subject: article        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 21:55:06
Message Number  4097

>Felinus Tomus (silent cats)
I /think/ Tom may have talked in a few of the cartoons (someone wanna
confirm this?)
 
>know what Rufuses are...
Errr, like there's only one Rufus.  Rufus is just your standard human
with a few modifications (the tail and the arm, along with some other
'small' features).  Rufus' offspring would be normal, since the tail
was grafted on.  It was not a result of genetic modification (not on 
the part of Rufus anyways).
 
 
  ...I'm going to bed, my English skills are breaking down again.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ALL                 
Subject: Road Rally     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 22:10:01
Message Number  4098

So, what are the final plans for the Road Rally?  Information like
when it starts, where it starts, and the approx. time to complete the
course would be real useful.
If anyone wants to tag along with Zot Gnop and me your welcome to.
 
     ...shotgun!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: ROAD RALLY     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 23:32:00
Message Number  4101

A definite statement: Radar detectors are not illegal nationwide. No
way, no how. A couple of states outlawed them when those states raised
their speed limits, and in those states you cannot purchase radar
detectors. In most states, including Florida, posession, sale, and
use of radar detectors is neither prohibited nor controlled. Sorry, 
but to whomever told you Congress made 'em illegal: It just ain't
so. How do I know? Simple. I asked a cop who pulled through
drive-through.
            --A practical Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Not Pee Wee    
Date & Time: 04/30/90 23:36:57
Message Number  4102

>It [Pee-Wee's Big Adventure] was REAL stupid, but some stupidity is
>quite amusing sometimes...
 
I agree wholeheartedly. Trouble is, Pee-Wee doesn't qualify. "Maximum
Overdrive," for example, was a wonderfully stupid movie that I laughed
wholeheartedly at--at least until I realized that it wasn't intended as
a parody of horror movies. On the other hand, there's only so much
of Pee-Wee Herman's juvenile humor I can take without losing my lunch.
                    --An unamused Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Fantasia       
Date & Time: 04/30/90 23:42:12
Message Number  4103

I am planning to see Fantasia...oh, about six or seven hundred times
when it's re-released. I bet Fox, Wratt, Donthen, and in fact most
of the local furry crowd probably feels the same way, so it sounds
like a potential centerpiece for a furry party or two.
                      --A furry Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: * HA! *        
Date & Time: 04/30/90 23:44:23
Message Number  4104

According to a Unix hacker in my Compilers class, the Amiga 3000
is supposed to ship with Unix System V+ (Bell Labs Unix 5.4) as
well as AmigaDOS 2.0. It's also supposed to ship with yacc, uucp,
Open Look, XWindows, and a few other goodies, at least according to
one magazine article I've seen. What was your source of information, 
and did it mention the Unix side of the A3000 at all? (At one point
I even heard rumours that AmigaDOS 2.0 was going to run as a satellite
task under Unix on the A3000, but that's probably apocrypha.) If
the thing /does/ ship with Unix, it'd almost be sufficient to make me
choose the 40MHz version of the 3000 over, say, a DECstation 2100
or Sun SPARCstation I if I'm ever in the market for a Unix
workstation...
                --An Amigaphile Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: FIDO stuff     
Date & Time: 04/30/90 23:50:58
Message Number  4105

Do you have a FIDO node number yet? Who's the official net host for
this area now? Who, if anyone, is responsible for the local echo
feeds? Are you sure you want to do that? What is the meaning of life?
Is the Amiga version of Binkley as obscenely large as the IBM version
and as bad as the Atari ST version? Does anybody care?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Anarchy Now    
Date & Time: 04/30/90 23:59:38
Message Number  4106

An E-Tool is a U.S. Army Entrenching Tool. It's a really neat fold-up
shovel that is impressively well-designed, and really effective
too.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: John Cage      
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:10:14
Message Number  4107

Turtle-   Too bad you missed the concert last Friday night. They 
performed a Cage piece which almost compared to a Turtle spew.
Bicycles, salad, anarchistic slogans, exercise, and feedback loops.
All at once! (Not to mention religion, shoving people out of their
seats, and men in long, white coats.) Beatuiful music!
             Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:13:49
Message Number  4108

 Personally, I found "Police Academy 6" to be a stirring film that
filled one's heart with joy, and plumbing the depths of worlds of
pathos. I was truly shocked and surprised when it did not win Oscars
in every category. In fact...
     You're not buying this BS, are you?
                  Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:17:34
Message Number  4109

>Someone told me today about a film that shows the fetus trying to
>avoid an abortion.
      
   I've heard about that film, myself -- every year at my Christian
high school, some of the teachers tried to get it shown at one of our
chapels. It was usually turned down by the administration.
    
   Face it: abortions are NOT pretty. Even the hardest pro-choicer will
admit (with a little prodding) that you're killing life, and that you're
killing life that could become human when you abort a fetus. As I said
before, I oppose BOTH the pro-life and the pro-choice groups: neither
tries to solve the underlying problem: How can we keep abortions from
being necessary? 
                    Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: call the doctor
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:23:01
Message Number  4110

Beatle,
    When Fantasia is re-released, wild humans couldn't stop me from
seeing it.
              Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: Radar Detectors
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:24:17
Message Number  4111

My beautiful Crystal-
    Perhaps. But, think about the Green Thing. Can it actually break
the sped limit?
                 Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:27:05
Message Number  4112

Dear Delphi,
    Please: don't worry about being radical. Several close friends are
Wiccan, and one of my closest is a Caballist.
    To be a seeker of the Truth is a worthwhile occupation, indeed. 
However, it's really difficult to know the Truth about God. As one
athiest said (I'm not sure whom): the finite cannot pierce the infinite.
In other words, our mortal minds could not conceive of the complexity
of God -- whether that God be the whole of existence, or that God be
the "outside of the universe but interacting" one that I espouse.
    Now that we seem to be communicating, we can begin to create our
own language to make things a bit easier. From now on, I'll refer to
"Adonai" (though I'm not Jewish) when I refer to the Christian concept
of a God outside of space who interacts with the universe. (To make 
things really simple.) Could you do the same for the concept of the
whole of creation as a deity? (Something similar to "Nature" or 
"Cosmos," perhaps?)
    
   It's really unfortunate that "dogma" has such negative connotations.
I've learned in mathematics that without assumptions, nothing (well --
very little) can be proven. (From no assumptions, you can prove either
Adonai exists or He does not. But not which one.) To me, dogma are 
merely the common grounds among a religious group: they shouldn't be
thought of as boulders, and the completed works of God, but as stepping
stones or building blocks to a fuller understanding of God. With no
foundation, the house sinks: no meaningful questions can be asked when
people don't share similar beliefs. Only when there's a common, stable
base can the building be erected: only when there's a common, stable
base can there be a church. 
      
   I'm curious: if it's the "spark" of the universe that gives us free
will, why was it distributed so much more to certain entities (humanity,
dogs, banana plants) than others (rocks, earth, moondust)? What, in
these forms attracted the life force so strongly -- or what repelled
<Continued next message>
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: DELPHI              
Subject: godtalk        
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:46:43
Message Number  4113

<continued from previous message>
this life force so strongly from other entities? I don't see the signs
of life within rocks as I do within people. 
    
   Are other dimensions worth thinking about? Like I said, until there's
been some contact (either way) between dimensions, I won't worry
about it. It doesn't matter. 
   
   I've never read anything by Mary Daly. What views do she espouse?
Have you read anything by C. S. Lewis? (Be REAL careful of his 
assumptions, however...)
     
     Another person (who is NOT a Christian) you might enjoy is
Raymond Smullyan: our conversation might turn something similar to
several of his ideas...
      
                      Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: money          
Date & Time: 05/01/90 08:58:27
Message Number  4114

The easiest way to do that is to have a brothel -- and test the
guys and girls for AIDS (and all other diseases) weekly. Not much
of a challenge.
                   Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Hi             
Date & Time: 05/01/90 09:04:57
Message Number  4116

>...anyone wanna help me seal all the sprinkler systems around town?
      
   Seal them? I have two pictures arising from that idea:
     
1.    "Wilbur... Wilbur..." Her voice was tinged with fear.
      "Yes, Mildred?"
      "Wilbur, look outside the window..."
      Wilbur shot a glance outside the window. "Why, Midred. There are
    circus animals out there."
      "I don't care what they are. Just get RID of them."
      When Wilbur left the garage with his shovel, he saw that every one
    of the seals had been taped to a sprinkler head.
     
 2.   "Wilbur... Wilbur!"
      He tossed his head and mumbled, "Yes, Miss Vavavoom. I'd love to
    play Nymph and Satyr with you."
      "Wilbur... wake up!"
      "Huh? What's wrong?"
      "I just heard a high pitched noise, an explosion, and then it
    rained for a few seconds. Go outside and look."
      Tossing his head to wake himself, Wilbur tossed on a terry cloth
    bathrobe, walked down the stairs, and looked outside. Every one
    of his sprinkler heads had been shattered.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: RUFUS               
Subject: article        
Date & Time: 05/01/90 09:13:22
Message Number  4117

Several of the Tom and Jerry cartoons had talking in them, but I don't
think Tom ever talked more than the sound of a muted trumpet in the
background music. (Remember Jerry's cousin who sang such wonderful songs
as:
       "I was riding down the trail to Santa Fe,
          And I met a pretty gal along the way,
        I said, 'Ain't we met before,'
          And she drew her fourty-four,
        So I tipped my hat and slowly rode away.
    
        I was riding down the trail to Santa Fe,
          And I met another gal along the way,
        I said, 'Baby, you're a dream,'
          She said, 'Touch me and I scream,'
        So I tipped my hat and slowly rode away."
     
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: * HA! *        
Date & Time: 05/01/90 12:53:02
Message Number  4120

I got my information from AMIGA WORLD MAGAZINE -- They have aquired
an A3000 from Commodore-Amiga, Inc.  The mentioned /nothing/ about the
UNIX -- Maybe that will come with the 40 Mhz 68040 version in a few 
weeks....
===========

From: SCOTT E             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: downloading    
Date & Time: 05/01/90 16:50:59
Message Number  4121

turtle, help me please. I can't seem to download a file from this bbs. 
I obviously am doing something wrong. Please help. I am using procomm
as my comm. software and am trying to download file 15 bullet14.txt.
thanks. 
===========

From: SCOTT E             
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: you sexxy thing
Date & Time: 05/01/90 16:55:18
Message Number  4122

Hi crytal. It's tues. and I hope your week is going all right. Mine is
much better then last week. Feeling better I hope. :) have a great rest
of the week and hang in there. I bet the old farts get pretty cranky at
a drug store huh. What aisle are the enimas. are they next to the \
suppositories and the ex-lax. Boy mix those together and we could have 
a major blow out in sarasota. Seeeeee yaaaaaa
===========

From: SCOTT E             
To: ALL                 
Subject: road rally     
Date & Time: 05/01/90 16:58:27
Message Number  4123

I would love to come to this road rally as long as it is not the opening
day of my favorite movie of all time disney Fantasia. I personally would
like to have crystal in my car and 2 other women would be nice. But I 
won't hog all the woman. So just one is alright. So when and where is 
this road rally of ours. Hope soon!!!
===========

From: SCOTT E             
To: ALL                 
Subject: movies         
Date & Time: 05/01/90 17:01:03
Message Number  4124

Saw pretty woman last night. It was the best movie I have seen all year.
Julia Roberts is hot looking. Never realized that before. Rich Gere is 
great in the role he plays. In case someone hasn't heard this is the 
basic storyline. Richard Gere is a rich businessman just like Don Trump
(though I read the other day he isn't as rich as he was). Well rich
is in LA on business and takes his lawyers E'SPIRIT  FOR A CRUISE 
DOWN HOLLYWOOD BLVD. IN comes Julia miss prostitute 1990. Well to make 
a long story short rich hires her to be his bosom buddy for a week
in exchange for 3000 dollars. In short as you guess they fall in love 
and as in almost all disney(touchstone) films they live happily ever
after. It's kinda a modern day cinderella story. Will go and see it 
a few more times. I reeeeeaaaallllllly enjoyed it as you can tell.
Have a good week.;
;)
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: FIDO stuff     
Date & Time: 05/01/90 18:50:26
Message Number  4125

No, I don't have my Fido Node Number, and I'M NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT!!!
	 
George Emigh (Above Board) is the local host, he seems to be very good
about most stuff, but he's taking forever to get my node # to me!
Richard Whidden (No Name BBS) apparently does the feeds for most of the
echo's, but I haven't talked to him about getting any because...
I STILL DON'T HAVE MY NODE NUMBER!!!  (sorry 'bout that,I'm kinda upset)
 I don't run Binkley.. I use Frontdoor (1.99c) which is slightly 
/bigger/ than Bink, the difference is that you don't need any extra
programs to proccess your nodelist or set up your mail packets for you.
I don't actually know that much about Bink, never tried it.. Frank
Merrill told me he'd used both and Frontdoor was more efficient in the
long run.
 
                        - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: money          
Date & Time: 05/01/90 19:08:25
Message Number  4126

Try it.. then tell me it's not a challenge, whatever you might think,
running a brothel's not easy (Although not speaking from personal 
experience.. have you ever read 'The night for pay' can't remember the
name of the guy that wrote it though.. it's an autobiography of a 
"pimp" actually he came across as pretty honest, but a little slimy.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: Good News!     
Date & Time: 05/01/90 19:35:02
Message Number  4127

Ken,
    If I took up a collection, how much would I have to get to pay you
to /stop/ using the phrase "cowabunga, dudes?"  Do you even know what
cowabunga means (aside from aparently appearing more than once in the
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from Hell movie)?
                            The Yngling
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: More God...
Date & Time: 05/01/90 20:22:07
Message Number  4128

Good Job!!!!!!!
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Fantasia       
Date & Time: 05/01/90 21:12:23
Message Number  4130

Of course, the fun part will be attempting to sneak in a video camera
to tape the movie.  So, when will it be re-released?
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Anarchy Now    
Date & Time: 05/01/90 21:14:51
Message Number  4131

Ahhh, mucho thanks.  I think I've seen them before at some place or 
another (my memory is going tonight).
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Hi             
Date & Time: 05/01/90 21:18:55
Message Number  4132

I was thinking more along the line of RTV Silicone Rubber (GE, we bring
good things to life then we stick 'em together) or epoxy.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SCOTT E             
Subject: downloading    
Date & Time: 05/01/90 23:17:52
Message Number  4134

Several people have had problems downloading with Procomm, primarily
because Procomm's XModem file transfer routine isn't worth a revolting
box of bug parts. You have to tell Procomm to use XModem Checksum (I'm
not sure how to do that; you might want to try one of the more IBM types
floating around, if you can find one); there's some manual toggle
between XModem CRC and XModem Checksum somewhere. (XModem CRC will
/not/ work.) Alternately, you might try getting a better terminal
program somewhere; Corwyn of Amber has a couple of good public domain
programs, as does Chip P. Unicorn.
                  --A helpful Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: FIDO stuff     
Date & Time: 05/01/90 23:21:58
Message Number  4135

You might try getting your node number from Steve Hall; he seems
fairly efficient about those things. Technically, the net host for
this area is still Alfie Bruhel (American United Broadcasting), but
he's in the process of being evicted forcibly from that position since
he never maintains his system and rarely bothers even to notice when
it goes down for weeks at a time. Anyway, Alfie went to Germany
recently, and to make a long and nasty story short and nasty, everyone
staged a revolt in his absence and started re-routing all the echo
traffic through Minas Tirith and the No-Name (with the result that there
are now two completely unrelated Suncoast Gossip echoes that don't
speak to each other), and George is the kinda-sorta de-facto acting
net host. What with all the politicking and stuff going on, it's
somehow not surprising George has forgotten about you.
   Another place you might want to try to get a node number, if you
really get impatient, is from Arlene Oakes at the Grand BBS; at the
very least, she'll probably be able to get George Emigh to get moving.
Happy hunting.
               --A Matrix-free Turtle
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: SCOTT E             
Subject: call the doctor
Date & Time: 05/02/90 00:57:11
Message Number  4136

I agree in part. I DO enjoy going to those movies (really, ANY
movies), but I don't necessarily drag my kids along for that reason. 
Most of the time I try not to because it can be rather distracting
having ruggies pullin' you around durin' the important parts of the
flick. I like to see my kids have fun at a movie, and I already
know all the words to AN AMERICAN TAIL, LADY AND THE TRAMP, DUMBO,
WINNIE THE POOH, NEVER ENDING STORY, THE DARK CRYSTAL, HONEY I 
SHRUNK THE KIDS, BATMAN, SLEEPING BEAUTY and a ton of others I am
bombarded with daily....yeah, I laugh at the movies!!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: TURTLE POWER!  
Date & Time: 05/02/90 01:02:10
Message Number  4137

Cowabunga, dude.
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/02/90 01:03:58
Message Number  4138

Shit, I'll have to digest your response as I attempt to shake this
three dimensional shadow off my four dimensional limbs....I hate it
when that happens!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Howard         
Date & Time: 05/02/90 01:06:13
Message Number  4139

"I have no license....and my name's NOT Jack"zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzap
  
   loved it!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Spaced         
Date & Time: 05/02/90 01:08:04
Message Number  4140

A little dry, but some parts were pretty good. The dude that looks
and acts like Jack Nicholson was alright. Just remember.....
  "Prepare to die, Earth scum"......cute
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/02/90 01:12:03
Message Number  4141

Hi, pick me up some beer while you're out.
  
              -Snake
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: ANYONE              
Subject: Murphy's Kids 
Date & Time: 05/02/90 07:15:19
Message Number  4144

Mead's Law: Paper is always strongest at mthe perferation(sp.?)
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: money          
Date & Time: 05/02/90 08:43:20
Message Number  4145

No -- I've never read 'The Night for Pay.' But, heck -- making money
illegally without hurting anyone still sounds much easier than
making money legally without hurting anyone.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: More God...
Date & Time: 05/02/90 08:46:03
Message Number  4146

Dear C.C.A.,
    Hello! And thank for the compliment! I haven't seen your face
around before...
    Tell me about yourself: who (and what) are you? What do you do?
Have any hobbies?
    If you're new to this BBS, then welcome! If you're not new, but
are just beginning to post, then welcome to our conversations!
                     Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Murphy's Kids 
Date & Time: 05/02/90 08:54:26
Message Number  4147

Hofstadter's Law: Everything will take longer than you think, even 
when you take Hofstadter's law into account.
     
Newcome's Law: Whenever it is written, the name 'Newcom' is always
misspelled.
    
O'Toole's commentary: Murphy was an optimist.
        
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Cowabunga, Dude
Date & Time: 05/02/90 12:51:52
Message Number  4148

Actually, the phrase appeared only /once/ in the entire movie at the
end.....
 
Pay me enough for my Hard Drive and I'll stop ....    :)
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: TURTLE POWER!  
Date & Time: 05/02/90 13:58:28
Message Number  4150

Snakebyte -
   I'll offer /you/ double what I'm offering Ken not to use that phrase
in the future.  I /know/ you're old enough to remember the origin of
"cowabunga" so I wont even ask...
                       The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: ALL                 
Subject: J.Y.C.         
Date & Time: 05/02/90 14:05:35
Message Number  4151

For any who are interested, an exerpt from a letter from Jacques-Yves
Cousteau:
     "When a dolphin mother gives birth, her baby is expelled underwater
.  The first act following birth is critical: to lift the freshly born
youngster up to the surface for its first breath.  So powerful is this
motherly instinct that other struggling animals have been pushed to the
surface instinctively by female dolphins.
      "Surely this blessed miracle of life is the greatest treasure on
earth.  Yet do we earthlings cherish and guard it?  On the contrary.
Each month month we now pour millions of tons of poisonous waste into
the global water system.  Many of our lakes, rivers, and coastal waters
have received their mortal wound.  The water is undrinkable.  The fish
and shellfish, if they exist at all, are contaminated.
      "Is all now lost?  I do not believe it...I passionately believe
that the perceptive few who have the opportunity to see the ultimate
disaster ahead must band together now to warn the slumbering many.
(Is it not always thus?)  Such corrective measures as exist must be put
into effect immediately.  Pioneering research and exploration to help us
better understand the sea and its creatures must be undertaken without
delay.
      "To this new crusade I solemnly pledge what years remain to me."
                                       -Captain Jacques-Yves Cousteau
The Cousteau Society
930 West 21st Street
Norfolk,  Virginia
               23517
$15.00 annual membership fee
$25.00 family membership fee
[ALL donations gratefully accepted]
                                
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/02/90 17:56:18
Message Number  4153

> How can we keep abortions from being necessary?
 
 I like that philosophy. We need to get more people to work toward that.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: article        
Date & Time: 05/02/90 17:59:18
Message Number  4154

 Well, I heard somewhere (and I'm SURE of this) that Tom never spoke, 
but Jerry did.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Fantasia       
Date & Time: 05/02/90 18:01:50
Message Number  4155

  Disney will re-release "Fantasia" in October to commemorate the 50th
anniversary. It has apparently been moved back a couple months. It was 
originally to be out in the summer. 
 re: video cameras. I wish we still had drive-ins. No audio problems. 
Also, in a theatre, you may be to close to the screen. Something like 
that happened to me at Disney MGM studios. I taped the film in the Great
Movie Ride, and I had a horrible time getting the whole screen in.
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/02/90 19:23:36
Message Number  4156

I usually remain in my bed when I'm passed out, except when my friends
are feeling particularly sadistic, and decide to see where they can put
me w/o me noticing.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: money          
Date & Time: 05/02/90 19:25:02
Message Number  4157

And generally it's more fun.. you just have to keep from getting caught.
(It does happen occasionally.. those pesky police)
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/02/90 19:28:15
Message Number  4158

Condoms at every corner!!! Condoms beside every bed!!
Remember:
        "If you're not going to sack it, Go home and whack it!"
 
Courtesy of the Condom Week Slogans List.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/02/90 22:47:57
Message Number  4161

Good job CORWYN!!!!!
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/02/90 23:26:01
Message Number  4162

Every rule has an exception except this one: A man must be present in
order to be shaved.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: money          
Date & Time: 05/02/90 23:26:51
Message Number  4163

>...making money illegally without hurting anyone still sounds much
>easier than making money legally without hurting anyone.
 
Nope.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: BEATLE              
Subject: Fantasia       
Date & Time: 05/02/90 23:29:33
Message Number  4164

Taping movies with a video recorder inevidably yeilds disappointing
results: the movie is being projectected at 24 frames per second, the
camcorder is running at 30 fps, so inevidably you're going to end up
with blank frames on the tape or frames that were shot while the 
shutter was opening or closing. (At a minimum, you'll get six frames
a second that are messed up, in fact.) Wouldn't it be easier to simply
"borrow" a print?
          --A practical Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/02/90 23:32:35
Message Number  4165

Tsk tsk tsk. Don't you know that birth control is immoral? It's against
God's will, you see. If you don't believe it, ask anyone who's standing
in a picket line waving "Stop Abortions Now;" they generally seem to be
the people most stridently opposed to birth control. (And Heaven KNOWS
we musn't permit public education about birth control, because that
would make more people want to have sex...)
                --A baffled Turtle
This message brought to you by the Committee for Mindless Morality,
Inc; an affiliate of We Sold Our Brains For God, Ltd.
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/03/90 02:12:09
Message Number  4166

I just can't understand how they can let places like this exist!
Why I've seen the "S" word five times, and that nasty boy used the "C"
word twice! You will all burn in HELL for your blasphemy!
  (No, Turtle's aren't excluded from HELL, they just can't go to Heaven)
 
                         - Corwyn
 Courtesy: Fire and Brimstone Unlimited.
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: ALL                 
Subject: Suncoast City  
Date & Time: 05/03/90 08:38:02
Message Number  4167

Does anyone know what happened to Suncoast City? Every time I call --
no matter what the baud rate, I just get garbage before it hangs up.
(This never happened before -- I doubt it's on my end of the line.)
                    Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: BEATLE              
Subject: article        
Date & Time: 05/03/90 08:41:48
Message Number  4168

Hmmm... I can't think of any instances where Jerry spoke... Can
anyone out there in BBS-land think of an example?
                    Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/03/90 08:43:23
Message Number  4169

>...and decide to see where they can put me w/o noticing...
      
    Unfortunately, you keep waking up before we can rest your bed on
any telephone wires...
                  Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/03/90 08:48:35
Message Number  4170

Ya know, the more I think about it, the more interesting of a place
Hell sounds like, and the more boring Heaven is. But I wouldn't
touch Purgatory. All those people waiting around to get into such
a boring place sound even worse.
                 Chip P. Unicorn
     
Is there a Purgatory for Hell?
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/03/90 16:23:44
Message Number  4171

You are FUNNY (but looks aren't   everything)
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/03/90 16:27:55
Message Number  4172

AMEN! PREACH IT!
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/03/90 16:29:07
Message Number  4173

I'd rather not take that chance.
Do you like to PARTY?? If you do, HEAVEN won't be a boring place at 
all. 
Pensonally, I'm rather looking forward to an eternal party. Besides,
who in their right minds would want to take a bath in fire forever?
                
      --An anticipating C.C.A.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ALL                 
Subject: WARNING        
Date & Time: 05/03/90 17:05:24
Message Number  4174

                     **
                   **..**
                 **......**
               **..........**
             **....PEOPLE....**
           **..WITHOUT A CLUE..**
             **...ON BOARD...**
               **..........**
                 **......**
                   **..**
                     **
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 05/03/90 17:39:05
Message Number  4175

It figures you would... he who won't pass up one stinkin' weekend with
his girlfriend for a once-in-a-blue-moon opportunity like a road rally!
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/03/90 18:33:18
Message Number  4176

Dear C.C.A.,
   A few points of explanation:
   I am a born-again Christian, who believes in the truth of the Bible.
However, that does NOT prevent me from strongly disagreeing with many
things going on with the church. (Jim and Tammy Bakker aren't the only
thing...)
   I have been less "turned on" to organized religion since last summer,
when I helped organize and create a church in Mexico -- then helped
destroy it. (The second was unintentional, but I believe it was really
the will of God.) 
   People who all share exactly the same opinion bore me. I despise
clones. Many Christian churches, however, seem to want to repress the
individuality that God has given us. (Take a look at hair styles around
your church...) Many Christian churches only reach out to the people
they want to be seen with... the white, upper class. 
   Hell, at least, is non-discriminating. There will be thousands of
interesting people. Some hideous, yes -- but probably many people who
considered themselves to be "good." (If you follow the idea that it's
only belief in Jesus that will get one into Heaven.) The thoroughly
evil people might be the most fascinating to talk with: why did Hitler
do what he did? And so forth...
   
    I assume from your comments that you feel you'll be going to
Heaven. I also assume from your comments that you feel Hell will
be a lake of fire (from Revelations.) I have one question for you:
Why should a non-believer accept any of those teachings? (Please, 
PLEASE don't say, "Because the Bible says so." I hate circular 
reasoning...)
                       Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 05/03/90 18:46:10
Message Number  4177

Dear Acapulco,
   I shall be seeing my girlfriend only twice more before I take off
for Washington this summer. Gimme a break!
                  Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 05/03/90 18:56:42
Message Number  4178

And to think me and Zot will be rushing over from the SAT's to do this
Road Rally.  Don't be surprised if we yell things like "The answer is
C" to passers-by.   BTW, just where is the meeting point?  I'd like to
know.  I'll probably meet Zot at Turtles [Turtle says "Hey, hold on, 
just what do you think your doing?"]  Anyways, off to study for a
test.  Ackk...
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/03/90 19:08:54
Message Number  4180

Yea, and the ogre you borrowed to carry my waterbed get's hungry and
leaves before I go back to sleep.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/03/90 19:09:59
Message Number  4181

Yea.. but you might have some fun being an Evangelist in purgatory.. 
talk about people who are /really/ nervous.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/03/90 19:11:18
Message Number  4182

Hmm.. It'd be convenient for 24hr Hot Dog service.. or you could just
slap a hamburger patty on a fellow sinner's back, wait 5 minutess, and
Voila! Fried Hamburger. What a wonderful thought.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: C Stuff        
Date & Time: 05/03/90 20:20:29
Message Number  4187

Tell ya what - the compiler that I am thinking about for CP/M is the
Software Toolworks C compiler and it leaves its' output as ----
(hold onto your shorts )  Assembler source with C comments!!!!  TA DA!
How's that for a compromise?  I will make an effort to get my stuff
together and dig it out.
		                            JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Radar Detectors
Date & Time: 05/03/90 20:35:41
Message Number  4188

Yup the only 2 states that have attempted to subvert your rights to
the FREE airwaves are Virginia and New Jersey.  It is in fact illegal
ands will subject you to a $250 fine and confiscation of your detector
in Virginia.  New Jersey is second hand.
 
                               A low-flyin JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ** HA ! **     
Date & Time: 05/03/90 20:39:12
Message Number  4189

<Snicker> could your compiler class have anything to do with a bad
case of compilerphobia?
Seriously - I really loved my compilers class.  We had to do a machine
that ran "ToyCode".  Then we had to write an assembler for said ToyCode
and then implement a BASIC compiler using the assembler then we had
to write an application that used the BASIC.  My application was a
simple Sieve of Erathonese (sp?).  My buddy and I were gonna do the
whole damned thing in YACC and LEX but there are pitifully few texts 
on either of these so we had to do a banzai job as the finals approached
A memorable quarter.
                           JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: No No !  Please
Date & Time: 05/03/90 20:45:17
Message Number  4190

I have a seek and destroy missile aimed at your house should you fire
up the abortion issue again!  The last one damn near killed me from
sheer ennui at seeing page after page of standard drivel.  Face it:
abortion is an emotional issue and as such cannot be argued logically,
effectively or rationally.  Please let it die!!! <whimper>
 
                            A freaked out JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: YNGLING             
Subject: Good News!     
Date & Time: 05/03/90 20:54:26
Message Number  4191

I'd chip in!  Y'think he ever heard of Frankie?
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: article        
Date & Time: 05/03/90 21:12:52
Message Number  4192

I seem to recall Jerry uttering a noise similar to "Hey!" to get 
Tom'a attention - been so long tho
===========

From: ANGEL               
To: YNGLING             
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/04/90 00:58:02
Message Number  4193

> To this new crusade I solemnly pledge ...
 
Ye Gods, not another new crusade!  I'm rapidly approachig 'cause'
burn-out.  Earth Day was the last straw, how about a moon-day or
something?
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: YNGLING             
Subject: TURTLE POWER!  
Date & Time: 05/04/90 01:26:14
Message Number  4194

>Cowabunga dude.
  
  Used as a quote from TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES, not a quote from
me. As for the origins, I'm not sure. But the first time I saw it,
it was on a poster in a freinds dorm room in '75 with Snoopy shootin'
a tube sayin' it.....What are you offering Ken?!?!?!?!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 01:29:24
Message Number  4195

I know I'm not drunk.....I can lay on the floor WITHOUT holding on!
My friends never 'put' me anywhere, but they have put other people
with me without me noticing......yuck!!!
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: TURTLE              
Subject: MESSAGES       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 01:32:54
Message Number  4196

 Hey, shelled one.....I just was told that I had a message waiting
#4186 and I find a gap existing between message 4182 and 4187. Just
curious what happened???
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 08:05:02
Message Number  4197

Yeah.. Coyote syndrome.. you want to knaw off your arm to avoid waking
up the thing thats sleeping next to you.. those are the mornings that
drive me to drinking /before/ 8am.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Unreal Problems
Date & Time: 05/04/90 14:44:07
Message Number  4199

>Is there a Purgatory for Hell?
 
No, buit there is a waiting list to get a Ferrari F-40.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/04/90 14:44:58
Message Number  4200

>You are FUNNY (but looks aren't   everything)
 
I shan't respond to that; I try to make it a point not to attack
unarmed opponents.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/04/90 14:46:35
Message Number  4201

>...who in their right minds would want to take a bath in fire forever?
 
Who in their right minds would worship a being who sees fit to keep a
private torture chamber for His mistakes? I for one expect higher
standards from any deity I would worship than that...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Road Stuff     
Date & Time: 05/04/90 14:49:42
Message Number  4202

The meeting point is the Klockner-Bartelt parking lot on DeSoto about
a stone's throw from my apartment, as the crow flies over green fields
and eats the lovely butterflies. If you're meeting here first, you can
follow me over...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: C Stuff        
Date & Time: 05/04/90 14:51:45
Message Number  4203

>...and it leaves it's output as...Assembler source with C comments!!!!
 
8080 or Z-80 assembler? I have a couple of really good Z-80-specific
macro assemblers, but the only 8080 assembler I have is ASM...
                      --A Z-80 Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Radar Detectors
Date & Time: 05/04/90 14:53:41
Message Number  4204

Actually, radar detectors are also illegal in Connecticut...
when you drive into the state, there's a little tiny sign that
says "Welcome to Connecticut" and an enormous sign that says
"RADAR DETECTORS ILLEGAL." Some greeting.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: MESSAGES       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 14:56:35
Message Number  4205

#4186 might be a mail message...
===========

From: DM2                 
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 16:07:45
Message Number  4206

Sheesh, and I know *someone* with a hard copy of me at my best... 
Drunk as a skunk (actually, I'm *not* a skunk...) and online. 
He uses it to keep me in line.
===========

From: DM2                 
To: TURTLE              
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 16:18:40
Message Number  4207

In regards to the downloading problems y'all are having... 
Not only can I not download or upload software, but I can't even 
download a terminal program to allow me to u/l or d/l the software.
It's a vicious circle, but I'm working on it.  I have one on order from 
a friend... (The first disk he sent me was blank.)  Anybody have any 
ideas on how to upload and download using Deskmate?  (Like I said, I'm 
working on it.)  Gawd, this software is driving me *nuts*.  I can't even
get it to u/l or d/l with another version of Deskmate.  The only thing
I can do right now is go across the PC-Link lines, and as we all know, 
*that* is less than cheap.  Hmmmm I wonder if Link has a copy of Procom.
Anybody know another good program for a Tandy for terminal software?
Hehe just point me in the right direction...
               --a Frustrated DM....
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: ANGEL               
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/04/90 17:55:23
Message Number  4209

>how about a moon-day or something?
 
Would this involve running around mooning people?!  People've told
me I have cute rear parts...
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Road Stuff     
Date & Time: 05/04/90 17:59:26
Message Number  4210

O.K.  That sounds cool.  Just incase, isn't Klockner-Bartelt a left
turn from your house (i.e.-west of 301).
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Fantasia       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 18:49:24
Message Number  4211

  >30 frames...
 
  I thought video had MORE frames than film. Anyway, the film I shot did
look a little cheap, but if the lighting was changed a bit, a film shot 
off a screen could come out okay...
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Fantasia       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 18:51:34
Message Number  4212

  FORGIVE ME
 
  I screwed up... I realize 30 is more than 24, but I thought video had 
closer to 60 frames... forgive my mistake...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: C Stuff        
Date & Time: 05/04/90 19:16:07
Message Number  4213

Actually I believe it leaves it's output as 8080 and even has it's own
assembler as part of the package.  I have a couple of translators that
I will vouch for that convert 8080 to Z-80 (which is the only assembler
a sane being would choose).  Take yer pick.  I seem to recall that I was
happy with it's performance but time sweetens all bad things - even my
first wife doesn't seem like quite an ogre anymore.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Radar Detectors
Date & Time: 05/04/90 19:19:24
Message Number  4214

I guess the thought they said Hi first is what counts...
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: LADY IN BLACK       
Subject: Earth calling..
Date & Time: 05/04/90 19:22:33
Message Number  4215

Ok Let's guess:
1) Still sick?   Hope ya get better. advice: chickn soup wLOTSA garlic!
2) Lurking?  What evil lurks in the hearts of...
3) Kidnapped?  We'll get a collection up.
4) Blue Flu?   We'll get together for a drink.
5) Busy?  Chill out with a leisurely stroll down the beach.
6) Tired? Put up a hammock between two palms on the beach - guaranteed!
7) Other.... there's always a solution.  But the important thing is to
             get back on track..  Ciao!
                                           JonBoy
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: rOAD rALLY.....
Date & Time: 05/04/90 19:50:55
Message Number  4216

It now looks like I will be busy until 6:30 saturday.  Hackers garage
sale at Computer Annex, and Don always has a few good deals about (he
and a few other people clean their closets then).
 
                  Raven
===========

From: RAVEN               
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Gee.....       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 19:53:31
Message Number  4217

Watts et al. talked me out of it.  Besides, unless I add a table in the
living room it will be dificult to set up the machines I already have,
let alone add a 1 ton 6 foot tall rack (although I am thinking of 
rackmounting some of my current machines, and putting a Hackintosh in
one after I sell my plus).
 
        Raven
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Earth calling..
Date & Time: 05/04/90 21:03:12
Message Number  4218

You forgot one:
8) School?  Run around your front yard impersonating animals like the
dodo bird and a frog.  Make lotsa noise while doing this.  Abusing
things like vegetables also helps.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Gee.....       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 21:05:47
Message Number  4219

Like, you wouldn't have an extra 1200 baud modem around that Watts
could have.  I'd really like mine back sometime within a month.  First
I have to get a serial card for the Apple to run the modem.  If you 
happen to come across one cheap, please tell me.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Garage sale?   
Date & Time: 05/04/90 22:25:54
Message Number  4221

Where is this computer annex?  When is the sale ((drooolllll slobber!))
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Earth calling..
Date & Time: 05/04/90 22:27:28
Message Number  4222

Your right!  I /did/ forget school!  Silly me... I used to disappear
for weeks right before finals.  Usually the realization would pop
into my head as I was doing something sinful (ie nuttin to do with
school) that I had better get my ass in gear or bye bye GPA!  PANIC!
I guess I'm a procrastinator at heart...
Give Lady my best if ya see her.
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Deal           
Date & Time: 05/04/90 22:30:28
Message Number  4223

I have a Prometheus (Hayes compat) internal 1200 baud modem that needs
no serial  card as it is built in.  I doubt that I'll be using my Apple
for telecomm so it is for sale.  I also have LOTS of Apple software
like 600 disks of the stuff (both sides) I'm sure we can find some
terminal software for it too. Probably ASCII Express is the best but
I also have MouseTerm somewhere.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: DM2                 
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/04/90 22:39:59
Message Number  4224

Deskmate knows no standard transfer protocols.  It's a cute environment,
and can be fairly good for some things, but you need to get a "real"
terminal program to do anything off of PC-Link.
    I suggest you find somebody who can give you a copy of Telix, which
is a "shareware" terminal program.  (It doesn't interface with Deskmate,
but it's fairly easy to use and is pretty powerful.)  There are some
other neat terminals out there for MS-DOS machines but a lot of them
are slow, really big, and overpriced, or any combination of those
three.
===========

From: BEATLE              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/04/90 23:37:49
Message Number  4225

> moon-day or something...
 
 We can't have that until we're living there and destroying the place!!
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DM2                 
Subject: Telix          
Date & Time: 05/05/90 00:35:40
Message Number  4226

Ps.. if you /can/ get something d/l'ed at all.. you can get Telix from
my board:  The Shadow @ (813) 359-1717..
Hmmm.. I saw a GWbasic Xmodem CRC implementation somewhere.. you could
call, and just fire that up... If I find it.. I'll let you know.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Road Stu       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 04:07:33
Message Number  4230

Yes, Klockner-Bartlet is in fact left from my complex...real easy to
find, nooo problem.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Garage Sale!   
Date & Time: 05/05/90 04:10:37
Message Number  4231

Comuter Annex is located on US 41 south (waaaaaaay south) of almost
everything else in Sarasota, down by Inacomp. It's just north of
Inacomp on the same side of the road, in the micromall right by
Taco Bell. I don't know if the hacker's garage sale is going on there
or not, though.
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Pee Wee        
Date & Time: 05/05/90 09:40:58
Message Number  4232

> Gimme a break!
 
Okay, where do you want it? Arm? Leg? How 'bout the back?
 
]:)
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 09:44:40
Message Number  4233

Coyote syndrome? I've heard that described as "wolf ugly".
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: DM2                 
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 09:46:56
Message Number  4234

You can't (u/l or d/l w/Deskmate)... it isn't a pretty sight! I used
to try it in my golden days of (using the preferred term around here)
Mush-DOS, then broke down and bought Crosstalk XVI _just_ so I'd have
Xmodem so I could d/l something _decent_!
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 12:44:38
Message Number  4235

Wow, someone who actually /bought/ a terminal program?  Neat.  I hear
rumors of things like that... (Of ocurse, before Turtle met me he
thought manuals for NEWDOS/80 were mythical creatures.)  Deskmate does
have a pretty sad excuse for a terminal program--there's a pop-up one
for the TRS-80 somewhere that does XMODEM Checksum--but hey, PBBS has a
pretty sad excuse for a file transfer system, so she doesn't have too
far to go match it....
===========

From: SAURON              
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: thermodynamics 
Date & Time: 05/05/90 15:29:36
Message Number  4236

  Or "Blue Coal..."  or "Luckies taste taste better, cleaner, fresher
smoother..." or "Hawkaaaaaaa!" or "All right Secret Squadron members-
today's secret message is..."  or maybe even "Lucky Strike Green has
gone to war". (that one is befor even MY time)
===========

From: SAURON              
To: ANGEL               
Subject: dirt, she says?
Date & Time: 05/05/90 15:35:10
Message Number  4237

  Okay...Feel like doing anything really kinky next weekend?
===========

From: SAURON              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Binkley        
Date & Time: 05/05/90 15:37:54
Message Number  4238

  The only thing I've ever seen that is remotely as ugly as Binkley
was a crippled Screech Owl with a patch over one eye, the mange, the
dreaded 'crotch-feather mould' and Avarian A.I.D.S.
   Binkley  is the electronic equivalent of masochism.
===========

From: SAURON              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/05/90 15:43:47
Message Number  4239

  An exception to the exception - >a man has to be present in order to
be shaved.
  
  "Pete Rose took it on the chin today with N.C. state's point-shaving
scandal..."    -Jimmy the Greek
===========

From: SAURON              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Hard Drives    
Date & Time: 05/05/90 15:49:20
Message Number  4240

   Hmmmm, could be, I suppose. I am not an expert on hard drives...
yet. In a month or two, I may disagree.
===========

From: SAURON              
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: * HA! *        
Date & Time: 05/05/90 15:51:35
Message Number  4241

  Gee, if CBM continues in this direction, they may get right up there
with Apple as far as over-priced hardware.
  It's great stuff-granted, but remember when the C-64 was 600 dollars?
   
  I'll pass for right now. I take that back...I already HAVE passed.
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 17:13:16
Message Number  4242

I think we're describing the same situation... a scary one at that.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 17:14:15
Message Number  4243

Don't tell me you're using ugh.. Crosstalk??  That's pitiful. The only
thing it has over /any/ other package is it's script capability.. and 
Telix's are not quite as powerful.. but much more logically arranged..
SALT (telix's script language) looks (and works) pretty much like 'C' 
it's also about a third the cost of Xtalk and has Zmodem built in..
sheesh.. why would anybody do Xtalk?
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/05/90 18:37:52
Message Number  4244

Sorry,during my last reply I was cut off. 
As to your question, why shouldn't they? If a person can believe 
that KILLING an innocent child is right, they should all be even more
acceptant to the prospect of living forever.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/05/90 18:47:26
Message Number  4245

It's amazing how people can pervert anything.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/05/90 18:51:24
Message Number  4246

Have mercy, please.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/05/90 18:53:36
Message Number  4247

Who do YOU worship??
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: SAURON              
Subject: Binkley        
Date & Time: 05/05/90 20:07:38
Message Number  4248

Calling Binkley "electronic masochism" is being far, far too kind...
Binkley is more like the electronic equivalent of the Spanish
Inquisition.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/05/90 20:12:15
Message Number  4249

>If a person can believe that KILLING an innocent child is right, they
>should all be even more acceptant to the prospect of living forever.
 
Huh? That sentence /looks/ like it's written in English, but damned if
I can figure out what it's trying to say...Folks, with 1990 having only
seven months left to go, I think we've already seen the Non-Sequitur of
the Year...
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/05/90 20:17:17
Message Number  4250

>Who do YOU worship?
 
Nobody.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/05/90 20:21:02
Message Number  4251

That did not seem to answer the question. Everyone worships SOMETHING
Even Turtles.
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Deal           
Date & Time: 05/05/90 22:20:34
Message Number  4253

If I'm not mis-taken, the Prometheus modem will not work with GBBS Pro,
which is what I'll be running.  I have a modem, I just need to get
it back.  I use ProTERM to call BBSs.  ProTERM is a wonderful program.
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/05/90 22:37:47
Message Number  4254

What are you referring to specifically? 
I /can/ pervert almost anything... most of the time however, I just make
fun of it.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/05/90 22:40:08
Message Number  4255

Nope.. as a token Amberite.. I can assure you that not /everybody/ 
worships something.. I don't happen to worship anything..
I have enourmous admiration for both The Unicorn, and Carmen Berg.. but
worshipping anything seems really silly to me.. a few individuals have
acheived a quasi-demi-god status in my life.. but nobody's seemed worth
worshipping.
                    Agnostically Yours,
                                        Corwyn
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 23:07:38
Message Number  4256

If one can use Xmodem Checksum with Deskmate, then one doesn't need
to buy something else... I had to because I did not know any BBS people
personally (at the time) using MS-DOS, and had no other way to get at
the files I wanted. I ended up using Crosstalk for about a year, before
getting on the beta list for COM-AND. I enjoyed the program I stuck
with it after the formal release and through numerous revisions.
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: ::sigh::       
Date & Time: 05/05/90 23:14:05
Message Number  4257

Folks use Crosstalk when they can't get ahold of anything else, and
the alternative is Deskmate. Fear not, I've ditched Crosstalk in favor
of COM-AND, which has a good script system, a unique set of accessories,
and Zmodem support, to name a few advantages.
 
I also know the author.
 
{Acapulco} (Capt of the famous Rally winning team of Turtle, Donthen
& Acapulco)
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/06/90 02:03:40
Message Number  4258

> If a person can believe that KILLING an innocent child is right,
> they should all be even more acceptant to the prospect of living
> forever.
 
If a person believes destroying entire ecosystems for commercial gain is
right, he should be even more inclined to like pineapple on his Domino's
pizzas.
 
---
The two statements above have one thing in common: their latter halves
have no apparent connection to their former halves.  Pardon my apparent
ignorance, sirrah, but what in tarnation does abortion have to do with
immortality?  Why should supporting abortion rights make one more likely
to believe in an afterlife?  If that isn't what you meant to say, you
need to do some serious clarification.
===========

From: SCOTT E             
To: CRYSTAL             
Subject: whats new      
Date & Time: 05/06/90 10:11:41
Message Number  4259

HI crystal:) where have ya been? Things have been a little dull around
here this week not much action. So how is eckerds doing? thats good
well my exciting week consisted of seeing pretty woman. thats it.
I start back to school monday at usf. yeckkkkkkk. have a great week
seeeeeee  yaaaaaaaaa'
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: Deal           
Date & Time: 05/06/90 11:16:35
Message Number  4260

Hmmm isn't proTERM that nasty piece of crap written under the UCSD 
system in Pascal?  At any rate - I have all sorts of stuff for modems
on the Apple including GBBS, ABBS, a lot of stuff for the truly 
wonderful Apple Cat modem, ASCII Express, and a couple of things that
run under ProDOS by Roger Wagner Software.
                                           JonBoy
===========

From: JONBOY              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/06/90 11:21:06
Message Number  4261

If you truly believe that worshipping ANYTHING or ANYBODY is silly ...
then commit yourself and refrain from being an agnostic.  This middle
of the road stance will not get you anywhere.  You will be in a limbo
of your own making.  Either come to the conclusion that God exists or
he doesn't.  I personally KNOW that God exists and takes an interest
in our lives.  I have had things happen to me that simplistic ideas
such as syncronicity and serendipity simply look silly as explanations.
The first step is to look at the evidence which is our Holy Bible.  
(I am starting from the Christian viewpoint because it is the one
true faith of the living God - we can discuss other faiths or schisms
within /orthodox/ Christianity if you like - but for simplicity's sake,
I start with the truth).  The Bible has undergone a test of almost 2000
years.  The literature has been validated and substantiated more than
ANY other other written work in the entire history of mankind as far as
correlation and accuracy (yes! historical accuracy).  Given this 
unprecedented book we must examine a most startling claim that it makes:
It is the written word of the Creator of this universe and it outlines
His plan for His creations.  This is the evidence that you must examine
with an open mind and a lot of inner searching. 
It kills me the number of people that believe that their intellects are
keenly honed instruments capable of infinite perception of the cosmos
and make such a rash claim : "There is NO God!" from the pitiful 
examples of their own lives within the limitations of a most likely
restricted environment.  Most Atheists that I know - can quote the
Bible inside out and know every tiny piece that seems to contradict
some other tiny piece.  Fine - that is what they were looking for and
that is what they found.  I ask that if you really want to know the 
truth for yourself - the read with an open mind.
               JonBoy
===========

From: RUFUS               
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Deal           
Date & Time: 05/06/90 13:07:10
Message Number  4262

I dunno what ProTERM is written in, but I like it.  I know several 
people who like it.  I used to have an AppleCat modem, but the damn
thing would never hang-up the phone, and after sending to to California
3-4 times I gave up on it.  What's ABBS?  The name sounds familiar, but
I don't think I've seen it.
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: SAURON              
Subject: You Dweeb...   
Date & Time: 05/06/90 14:36:04
Message Number  4263

actually, the computer is very /low/ priced -- Compare it to it's
/closest/ competetor ... The Mac II FX which is something like $10000
now, isn't it?
 
Gee, too bad you got a 286 -- But hey, not all of us can have computers 
that haven't been updated since 1950....
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Version #      
Date & Time: 05/06/90 21:29:48
Message Number  4264

  Noticed that your BBS version number went up from 2.02H to
3.00H. Congratulations.
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/06/90 21:31:12
Message Number  4265

Ogre? To carry a waterbed? I'll have ytou know that it took TEN
unicorns to try to drag that waterbed out of yor room... then a
lot fewer when we thought of taking the water out... and, we were all
kinda thirsty...
    But I won't say what we re-filled the bed with...
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/06/90 21:34:12
Message Number  4266

Being an Evangelist in Purgatory sounds like fun; that is, until the
people in Purgatory figure out WHY you're in Purgatory...
             Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: No No !  Please
Date & Time: 05/06/90 21:36:18
Message Number  4267

>Please let it die.
    
   I'll abort it, even before it's given birth.
               Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: RUFUS               
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/06/90 21:42:15
Message Number  4268

>Would this involve mooning peop[le?!
     
   I've never understood the humans' need to wear clothing.
               Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/06/90 21:49:54
Message Number  4269

>Why shouldn't they?
     
   I assume the question you're referring to is why should unbelievers
believe the Bible...
   Why shouldn't unbelievers believe the Bible? Well, it's self
contradictory, it's historically questionable, it's misogynist,
it's scientifically naive, possibly inaccurate, extremely ethnocentric
and nationalistic, depressing, does not solve the "Problem of Evil,"
and lacks unity.
   Any questions?
                   Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/06/90 21:58:22
Message Number  4270

Have mercy? What, you who worship the same God that slew Ananias --
not for not giving -- but for not giving enough? You, who worship
the samee God who slew forty-two youths when they called Elisha
"baldy"? The God who has about half the psalms devoted to Him rather
bloodthirty ones?
  Watch your own deity, mister.
              Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/06/90 22:06:31
Message Number  4271

Whoa, Nellie... Hold me back... Hold me back...
       
   First of all, how do you "know" that God exists? What kind of proof
do you have? If it's personal experience -- are your senses always
correct? (If I gave you LSD, and you "felt the presence of God" while
you were under LSD -- would that be a true experience?)
      
   Even the great scholar Charles Ryrie (ever heard of the Ryrie
study Bible?) Admits in his "Basic Theology" that the Bible has, at
least, scribal errors. (Basic Theology, p. 98, by Charles C.
Ryrie, Sp Publications, 1986) There were at least scribal errors from
the numbers: why not elsewhere?
     
   How do we know that the Bible is the "one true faith" as you
put it? Why not, say, Zoroastrianism? (Which, I might add, was looked
on with favor in your Bible. The first part of the first Chapter of
John might have come straight from a Zoroastrian service. Heck:
MOST of John parallels Zoroaster rather nicely.) It's survived 500
years longer than the New Testament -- and it still has worshippers.
Hinduism goes back even father (but there's no, real continuous faiths
that survived from then 'till now.) Buddhism has lasted some 3000 years,
too...
     
   You say the Bible is historically accurate? I wonder: would you
please prove that any of the miracles mentioned happened? If you
can't, how do you know they were historically accurate?
      
   Face it -- Christianity requires a LOT of faith to believe in.
Even from the start. But, I'm afraid that it's most Christians who
come from the "restricted environment" you were talking about. You
see more Christians in rural areas than in large university towns.
     
                  The Devil's Advocate
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: ALL CHRISTIANS      
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/06/90 22:20:17
Message Number  4272

Okay, okay... just looking over the last few messages, I'm sure I
riled up some Christians on this board. I'm sure most of them are
wondering exactly what I'm doing: especially when I mentioned only
a few messages back that I was, myself, a born-again Christian.
     
   I am.
     
I also have not found one shred of evidence to support my belief, in
the sense that I've found many arguments why NOT to believe the Bible.
Anyone who claims to have proofs for the Bible generally get plowed
under by arguments I've been storing up. And I try to say them in
vicious (sp?) enough ways that they can't be ignored.
     
   If there's reason NOT to believe the Bible -- and not strong reasons
TO believe the Bible, why should I place my faith in something so
shaky? SUre -- God may be beyond logic; but mortal minds refuse to
understand anything beyond that. And if not the least bit of Him is
understandable, then He's not worth worshipping. (Ya might as well
worship outer space -- or the tachyon.)
     
   (Some of you might say: well -- parts of Him are within logic, and
parts of Him are beyond logic. Nope. No can do. If parts of Him are
self-contradictory -- the only way He can be beyond logic -- then,
from logic, ANYTHING can be proved about Him. I'll give the proof if
someone asks for it.)
    
   Anyone got a suggestion?
              Chip P. Unicorn
     
    And, no -- I'm not looking for sarcastic ones.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real weird     
Date & Time: 05/07/90 00:33:45
Message Number  4273

>Everyone worships SOMETHING
>Even Turtles.
 
Even Turtles are worshipped? Groovy, dude! I want to meet some of the
people you know...Turtle worship is just the ultimate natural high, you
know?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: RUFUS               
Subject: ProTERM        
Date & Time: 05/07/90 00:37:33
Message Number  4274

>ProTERM is a wonderful program.
 
ProTERM can make you happy. ProTERM is the Way. ProTERM is warm,
sensitive, caring, and great with leftover pizza. ProTERM is the
Way to Happiness and Pizza. Everyone should use ProTERM. Even people
without Apples. ProTERM can make their lives complete. ProTERM is
your friend.
 
(c) 1990 People United for ProTERM, Inc.
 
Failure to use ProTERM is treason.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real People    
Date & Time: 05/07/90 00:39:51
Message Number  4275

>...nobody's seemed worth worshipping.
 
Not even Seymour Cray?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 00:42:16
Message Number  4276

Oooooh! "Let us start with Christianity, which is the Truth." I
/like/ that! At least you don't beat around the bush. But, moving
along from there:
 
First, I am not convinced that you "know" that Christianity is the
truth any more than I am convinced that a Muslim "knows" his faith
to be true, or a Shintoist /his/ faith, or whatever. I know a Wiccan
who "knows" her faith is true just as thoroughly as you "know" yours
is; obviously, at least one of you is simply wrong, regardless of
the fervency of your belief.
 
Second, the Bible has not been validated as thoroughly as you claim.
The book of Esther, for example, is historical fiction pure and
simple; absolutely none of the eventsa described in that book has
any basis in any known history or any correlation to any other
historical work whatsoever. I also find it highly suspicious that
there is no Egyptian historical record /anywhere/ of any of the
plagues or catastrophes visited upon that populance by a righteous
God to persuade the pharoh to leave Moses alone; for that matter, there
isn't even a record of any massive exodus of Hebrews on the scale
described by the Bible.
 
I generally view Christianity on about the same level I do most other
organized religions: it contains some interesting ideas, a general
knowledge of it is necessary if one wants to understand history; but as
a system of beliefs explaining why the Universe is the way it is I
think it has about as much validity as astrology, Islam, or
dianetics. I am interently distrustful of totally self-referential
and arbitrary belief systems, and I have yet to see a single
argument put forth by anyone that will give me any basis whatsoever
for believing that Christianity is any different from any other faith.
I am also unimpressed with Christianity's track record so far--it
has been responsible for more wars than I have fingers and toes,
the destruction of the library at Alexandria and several major
civilizations, and a great deal of misery and human suffering, in the
name of what?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Version #      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 01:05:39
Message Number  4277

Why, thank you. 3.00 still has a few weird quirky misfeatures, but
such is life...mine at  least.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/07/90 01:08:09
Message Number  4278

>You, who worship the samee God who slew forty-two youths when they
>called Elisha "baldy"?
 
Chip, that's beautiful. We need more Christians like you--most born-
agains I know are even more obnoxious the second time around.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real faith     
Date & Time: 05/07/90 01:10:40
Message Number  4279

ANY religious structure requires a great deal of faith to believe in,
simply because all religions are inherently self-referential and by
their very nature cannot be proven or disproven. Son-worship may be
more sophisticated than sun-worship, but in the end their adherents
do not subscribe to them for any rational reason at all. As for people
who KNOW (all capital letters) that Christianity is correct: For any
Belief System X, you will find people who KNOW beyond a shadow of
a doubt that Belief System X is absolutely true. The fact that these
belief systems are fundamentally incompatible does not seem to change
the mind-sets or the attitudes of their adherents.
                     --An ex-fundamentalist Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/07/90 01:14:34
Message Number  4280

>Anyone got a suggestion?
 
Not any that are likely to be helpful. Myself, I'd say order a pizza
and forget about it, but you'd likely take that as being sarcastic,
which it isn't. If there is a god, then he/she/it hasn't seen fit to
provide humanity with any convincing reason to believe in him/her/it;
therefore, it's kind of a moot argument. Eat a pizza; the rest will
sort itself out. If this particular diety sees fit to damn people
who take that attitude, after not providing any reason /not/ to--well,
is that entity really worthy of worship to begin with?
                    --An agnostic Turtle
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 02:33:31
Message Number  4281

I don't claim to know whether or not there is a god (or God if you 
prefer capitalization) that's what agnosic means.  I /am/ certain 
however that I would not wish to worship the God described in the bible.
It is not a book which I know particularly well, I don't feel it gains 
any significance by being very old yet still believed by many. Galileo
came up against blind faith in his conflict with the catholic church in
the early 1600's. He contended by observing the way shadows were cast 
across the moon, that it was not the "perfect celestial sphere" which 
the church claimed all heavenly bodies were. When he supplemented his
hypothesis with data obtained from his telescope (which was actually not
invented by Galileo, but by Hans Lipperhay) He was accused of creating 
and using "tools of the devil" - Niccolo Lorini. I claim no certainty,
and try to judge things as logically and coherently as possible. I will
not deny the existence of a God, I simply see no point in worshipping 
one if it exists. This is not arrogance, simply the full use of the 
judgement which if a God created me, he must have given me. I will live
my life by my own counsel, not by the instructions of an old book. I
would like to read the Bible through sometime.. and I undoubtedly could
learn something from it, however I will always trust my own judgement 
above that of any organization or doctrine. Mine is not a middle of the
road stance.. it is simply pragmatic.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: You Dweeb...   
Date & Time: 05/07/90 02:55:34
Message Number  4282

286 - 1950.. I think you're a little confused on dates Ken.. 
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/07/90 02:57:29
Message Number  4283

You have sacrificed simply to give them the word of god.. He loves you
you know! He died for you..  the lord is all forgiving.. just give me
your money and you'll get into heaven for sure!
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real weird     
Date & Time: 05/07/90 03:04:44
Message Number  4284

The Church of the Everlasting Green Shell (May Forever Be it Hard) ??
Has a ring to it.. think we could get a spot right after 700 club?
That Decstation is looking affordable. 
                        - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real People    
Date & Time: 05/07/90 03:07:32
Message Number  4285

Well.. I might be his sex slave for a little while.. but it would be
a strictly mercenary arrangement.. I get his 'old' computers.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real faith     
Date & Time: 05/07/90 03:13:30
Message Number  4286

I KNOW getting up in the morning is EVIL!!! (A lifetime of experience)
 hmmm.. getting up in the morning as Satan.. we mave have a sensible
 foundation for Christianity here after all.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/07/90 03:15:22
Message Number  4287

Pizza isn't proof of god?? Sacriligous Heretic Scum!!!
 
                         - Corwyn
 (Garcia's pizza = Nirvana)
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: ALL YOU!            
Subject: Hey..          
Date & Time: 05/07/90 03:17:48
Message Number  4288

This place is great.. but I'm going to whine about my board now.. I'm
starting to cry as I look at my message areas.. really.. if you try,
they /could/ be good! So call.. write something blasphemous, and enjoy..
 
    The Shadow BBS      @ (813) 359-1717
 
  (Echo's probably won't be a reality until next year... but can't we
     make enough noise ourselves? )
 
 
                         - Corwyn
                              (The lonely Sysop)
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/07/90 13:14:27
Message Number  4289

No, that is not what I meant.
I meant:
        If a person can believe that   taking life is right, they
should be equally acceptant of the chance of infinitely prolonging it.
           
  But, in accepting the latter half,  a person should see how wrong
the former is.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/07/90 13:34:03
Message Number  4290

  I believe in the God of the bible. Some people know him better as
YAWEH or JEHOVA. I believe in the God that ransomed MY soul from HELL.
My God has already given me joy. My God can also be your God, if YOU
already know My God, then you'll understand that I don't need to:
>Watch /MY/ diety.
Because HE watches over ME.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 13:42:42
Message Number  4291

Without FAITH noone could live in this whreched world.
===========

From: C.C.A.              
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Real weird     
Date & Time: 05/07/90 13:46:59
Message Number  4292

I think you know what I meant.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: 286: Stone Age 
Date & Time: 05/07/90 15:38:34
Message Number  4293

I think Ken's confused, too: the only commonly available calculating
devices in 1950 were abacuses, which are generally /much/ more
sophisticated than 80286 machines.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Pizza=God      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 15:41:00
Message Number  4294

>Pizza isn't proof of God? Sacriligious Heretic Scum!!!
 
That's "Blasphemous Sacriligious Heretic Scum" to you, mister.
/Everybody/ (except you, evidently) knows that pizza isn't proof
of God; Z-System is.
              --A blasphemous sacriligious heretic Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Bar            
Date & Time: 05/07/90 15:44:28
Message Number  4295

>I believe in the God of the bible.
 
Why?
 
>My God can also be your God...
 
Again, why?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 15:45:13
Message Number  4296

>Without FAITH noone could live in this whreched [sic] world.
 
Really? What makes you say that? I know for a fact that that statement
simply isn't true.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: +ALL+               
Subject: This area      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 15:46:13
Message Number  4297

You will no doubt have noticed a new conference in the list by now:
Z-SIG (this very conference, in fact). The purpose of this message
area is to provide support for all the users out there (and there
seem to be a surprising number of them) running Z-System and
CP/M-80. This conference will act as an area to exchange information
pertaining to Z-System and CP/M, and provide support and advice for
Z and CP/M users. Is simple, yes?
                  --A Z Turtle
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/07/90 16:14:12
Message Number  4298

> If a person can believe that taking life is right, they should be
> equally aceptant of the chance of infinitely prolonging it.
 
Hm.  Sorry, still don't see a connection between these.  If any
connection could be made, I would expect it to be closer to the
opposite; Christianity (about the only religion I can think of offhand
that teaches of an afterlife in a way that could be considered an
"infinite extension" of one's self/soul) professes to teach respect for
human life, which is, presumably, why many Christians are against
abortion in the first place--they believe that the ends do not justify
the means, regardless of the mother's wishes or extenuating circumstance
of the pregnancy.  On the other hand, I expect people who truly believe
that taking life is "right"--which is a tough case to support, as almost
anyone (Christian or otherwise) will be forced to concede that killing
is not always a black-and-white issue, even if it is something to be
avoided if at all possible--really don't think much about eternity at
all.
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Bar            
Date & Time: 05/07/90 16:21:04
Message Number  4299

> My God can also be your God...
 
so, "wouldncha like ta be a Pepper, too?"
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: TURTLE              
Subject: This area      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 16:22:44
Message Number  4300

Z-System? Is that for DOS machines?....
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 05/07/90 17:08:35
Message Number  4301

Hmmm... just curious. What are your sources to say that there was
no historical record in Egypt of the (presumed) plagues? Do we still
have ALL of the records of the ancient pharaohs?
       
   Proving or disproving something through history, especially ancient
history, is tough. But -- I wouldn't call Christianity the most warlike
religion. Probably Islam is more so, among the major religions.
(What the first sentence of this paragraph has to do with the second
one is beyond me.)
      
  I would not call Christianity totally self-referential, or arbitrary.
It filled a need during the Roman times, giving people hope of an
afterlife, and has since evolved, filling that need for over a billion
people. 
    
   But -- be kind to the Christians. Though many people have died in
the name of Christ, many great works and deeds were also done in His
name. Most great works in Europe for the past fifteen hundred years
were done in His name. Same with the colonization of the Americas.
So... nyaaah!
                Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Foo            
Date & Time: 05/07/90 17:14:58
Message Number  4302

It's kinda like Vlad's description of his religion: "I worship an
obscure war-god."
                   Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/07/90 17:17:13
Message Number  4303

Of course most born-again Christians would start yelling the 
teleological argument at you ("Take a look at the order in the
universe! Order has to come from somewhere, right? Doesn't that
just PROVE that there's a Deity Somewhere Out There?" And blathering
on and on...) 
    Then again, most born-again Christians don't see the problems
with the statement: "The Trinitarian believes God is Triunity.
That is a belief gleaned from the Bible. Therefore, he also believes
the Bible to be true." (This was an ACTUAL example of so-called
"good logic" from a book I own.) Class, can we find TWO mistakes
in the above logic?
   The problems with any proof that God exists is that we really have
no unquestionable assumtions to work with -- and any such proof can
be twisted to say that, say, gryphons exist. The basic belief in God
is itself an assumption.
       
   Okay: why believe in Him? The best response I've ever seen was
Pascal's: Think of the consequences. Even if the chances are one in a
million that God exists, it's better to believe in Him. Here's why:
There are four possibilities:
      
   a) God doesn't exist, and you don't believe in Him: Fine. No problem.
       No one will toss you in His non-existant torture chamber.
   b) God doesn't exist, and you believe in Him: Well, you might be a
       bit disappointed when you're reincarnated, but -- heck -- it's
       better than toast.
   c) God does exist, and you believe in Him: Welcome to Abraham's 
       bosom, buddy. The best possible situation for the afterlife.
   d) God does exist, and you don't believe in Him: Toast.
       
  You have no control over whether or not God exists... heck; you don't
even know whether or not He exists. But -- in game-theory terms, which
is it better to do: believe, or not believe?
     
   The only fault in this idea: in WHICH god do you believe?
              Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/07/90 17:29:07
Message Number  4304

Corwyn,
   Just thinking: isn't there a remarkable similarity between modern
televangelists and the medieval clergy who sold indulgances?
            Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/07/90 17:30:58
Message Number  4305

C.C.A.,
   A Bible verse FOR Abortion:
       "And I declared that the dead,
        who had already died,
        are happier than the living,
        who are still alive.
        But better than both
          is he who has not yet been,
        who has not seen the evil
          that is done under the sun."
                  -- Ecclesiastes 4:2-3
===========

From: CHIP P. UNICORN     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/07/90 17:37:02
Message Number  4306

>Without faith no one could live in this wretched world.
     
   Which your God created? If God is all-powerful, why is there
suffering in the world? If evil is so abhorrent to your God, why
does He allow it?
   If He created this wretched world, why did He not give to everyone
an "inner sense" that He exists -- as proof of His existance?
                 Chip P. Unicorn
===========

From: ACAPULCO            
To: TURTLE              
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/07/90 19:42:09
Message Number  4309

A thought occurs to me (how rare!).
 
IF God was to provide us with unshakable proof of His existence, who's
to say that proof will remain after a few hundred years?
 
For example, please assume Jesus _did_ rise after His crucifixion (sp?).
Yes, that would be a strong miracle, as it is told in the Bible. Those
witnessing the event would be quite convinced. Technology as it was,
before long folks would _have_ to rely on faith, since there was no
other reliable form of recording history.
 
Now, extrapolate that to today. Were such an event to occur, the 
witnesses would once again be convinced. Word would spread faster,
and the event might even be recorded in a more reliable manner, but
who is to say such evidence (verbal & otherwise) would last another
1000 - 2000 years?
 
I can understand skepticism, but only when viewed with an open mind.
Just as religion requires strong faith, so should skeptics be required
to accept the _chance_ they might be wrong.
 
I, too, am "born-again" and am not pushy about the subject. My religion
is between me & my God. What irks me are those folks who either insist
their way is the right way, without any rational discussion, or who
insist there is no right way, without allowing for the possibility that
not everything _can_ be rationally explained.
 
(Stepping off soap box)
 
{Acapulco}
===========

From: KILLASHANDRA REE    
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 00:01:08
Message Number  4311

Very interesting.  You conclude your message with "read with an open
mind" (in reference to the Bible), yet at the beginning you state that
you know conclusively that God exists.  Further, the God you know
exists is the Christian God, i.e., the one depicted in the Bible.
:   Leaving aside any questions of whether or not everyone would arrive
at the same concept of "God" by looking through the Bible, this
strikes me as a dismayingly arrogant statement.  It reminds me of a
less well-thought-out version of a C.S. Lewis parable, wherein he makes
the claim that all belief systems (except Christianity, of course) are
analagous to different pairs of spectacles through which one can view
the truth.  Different pairs of glasses highlight and distort different
things, but they are all pointing in the right direction--some are just
clearer than others.  Lewis, of course, believed as you evidently do,
that Christianity is the "Light" that people were viewing through these
glasses.  What both of you so blithely dismiss is the very real, and
perhaps most likely, possibility that Christianity is simply another
pair of spectacles.
:
: Killashandra
===========

From: KILLASHANDRA REE    
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/08/90 00:14:37
Message Number  4312

:  One other qestion that raises.  Do "game-theory terms" provide a
sufficient rationale for subscribing to any belief system at all, much
less one over another?  If "God" exists and a person does not believe in
her, this is only a problem if "God" is as jealous and unforgiving as
portrayed in most of Christianity.  Somehow it seems foolish to believe
that an omnipotent, omniscient and at least partially benevolent being
would be that outraged at a mortal's disbelief in her.
:
:  Killashandra
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Xnty...        
Date & Time: 05/08/90 00:26:10
Message Number  4313

I was not trying to imply that the lack of record of the Biblical
plagues proves that they never happened, although I do find it highly
suspicious that a large number of Egyptian records have survived from
that time and not one of them so much as mentions anything of the
sort described in Exodus. What I was doing is pointing out that the
historical record does not validate the events described in the Bible to
the degree that some people seem to think that it does.
   Islam is, in fact, more warlike than Christianity--but interestingly
enough, it is also (as a general rule) more likely to embrace science
than is Christianity. While the Roman Catholic Church was busy
condemning Galileo as a heretic, the Muslim upper class of the Persian
Empire was busy supporting the sciences, specifically astronomy,
medicine, and mathematics, to such a large degree that /all/ the
greatest accomplishments in that field during the Middle Ages occurred
in Islamic areas of the world. (Of course,m the Catholic Church is hard
at work even now to rectify that situation; why, in 1972 they even went
so far as to acquit Galileo of wrongdoing regarding his claim that the
moon was not a perfect celestial body...) Sure, Christianity on the
whole is responsible for a great deal of good; but is the price really
worth it? Is it really that unreasonable to ask for a religion that
teaches us to respect one another without the "everyone else is damned"
element that causes us to abuse one another?
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/08/90 00:35:21
Message Number  4314

I'm fairly pleased with myself; I independantly came up with Pascal's
payoff matrix for religious faith when I was about 14 years old and
still trying to decide if I really wanted to remain Fundamentalist.
Problem is, the matrix is too simple. Consider this: God exists,
you don't believe in Him, toast. God exists, you believe in the
/wrong one/, God is insecure about that sort of thing: McHistory. You've
just bought yourself a ticket to the special areas of Hell most
ordinary sinners don't get to see...This sort of thing can be
manipulated forever if you're into game theory and need the excercise,
but it's not worth much as a serious argument to take up the cross.
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: KILLASHANDRA REE    
Subject: What who's doin
Date & Time: 05/08/90 00:42:31
Message Number  4315

>Somehow it seems foolish to believe that an omnipotent, omniscent
>and at least partially benevolent being would be that outraged at
>a mortals disbelief in her.
 
Particularly when she hasn't seen fit to give that particular individual
any /reason/ to believe in her in the first place.
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: please...      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 15:33:07
Message Number  4317

Chip,
    C'mon, tell this story about destroying the church in Mexico.
I've /got/ to hear this.
                         The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: ANGEL               
Subject: New crusade    
Date & Time: 05/08/90 15:43:54
Message Number  4318

Angel,
    Dont worry dear, with attitudes like yours being the rule rather
than the exception, soon the earth /will/ be a barren rock devoid of
life and moisture and so there wont be a need for a "moon day" since
we'll have our very own version right here where we can die on it!
    Pass me a bottle of air, will ya?
                             The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 15:56:09
Message Number  4319

Why on earth do you make the assumption that everybody worships "SOME-
THING?"  I would be curious to hear you defend that statement (unless
your only defense is some pablum thats been spoon fed to you in your
Sunday school classes).
                       The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 16:01:38
Message Number  4320

Jonboy,
   If there is a god who claims to be a just and loving god but whom
not only desires but /recquires/ the saccharine adulation of his
creations and considers eternal punishment without parole or pardon a
just sentence for failure to obey his every whim...then I for one want
no part of him/her/it.
                       The Yngling
===========

From: YNGLING             
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: game-theory    
Date & Time: 05/08/90 16:16:55
Message Number  4321

Chip,
    So, I should believe in god, even if I /really/ dont, just in case?
But then, if he exists, wouldnt he know Im only faking it?
    Your argument is logical, but in reality doesnt work if god really
does exist.  Basically, it sounds like you are promoting hypocrisy
(but I know youre not).
                       The Yngling
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: C.C.A.              
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 19:44:51
Message Number  4323

I have no, or very little faith.. but I don't find the world so wretched
do you think there could be a connection?
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: 286: Stone Age 
Date & Time: 05/08/90 19:45:48
Message Number  4324

Tell me it again when you're running real bbs software.. although of
course, I'm running real software and have dead message bases.. so I 
guess I should shut up.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Pizza=God      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 19:47:02
Message Number  4325

Z-system is proof of hackers.. hackers are the spawn of God, (and of
course the most favoured children of God)however maybe they are god,
and maybe I'm confused.. I shouldn't be up when it's still light out..
does weird things to my brain.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: TURTLE              
Subject: Bar            
Date & Time: 05/08/90 19:49:10
Message Number  4326

No.. you can't have him.. He's ALL MINE.. I kidnapped him from an old
folks home about three months ago, He's hiding in the corner, under my 
bed.. (he's pretty small for a god)
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: DONTHEN             
Subject: This area      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 19:51:52
Message Number  4327

Does it run on DOS, or is an addition to OS/2? OS/2 is wonderful, OS/2
is your friend.. Microsoft is your friend.. everybody should run DOS
and OS/2 dual boot machines, everyone who doesn't are traitors.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/08/90 19:56:15
Message Number  4328

Also.. what if God doesn't want to be believed in, he might be very 
upset with people who beleive in him, say prayers to him, but some 
bigmouth (Jesus) blabbed and got everybody bothering the big guy?
How happy is he going to be with folks that kept pestering him? 
 
  e) beleive in god, and he doesn't want you to: Crispy Crittur.
 
 Just saying that "which god?" is not the only hole in his argument..
there are more.
 
                        - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: CHIP P. UNICORN     
Subject: Real solutions 
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:00:40
Message Number  4329

Yeah.. and money grubbing bastard everywhere-and-when will come up with
similar schemes for power of poor schmucks who believe them.
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: CORWYN OF AMBER     
To: ACAPULCO            
Subject: What I'm doing.
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:03:59
Message Number  4330

Good point.. but Robert A. Heinlen's "Stranger in a Strange Land" could
also show up in about 2000 years, and start a new religous movement..
who would be able to say that Mike /didn't/ actually fly?
 
                         - Corwyn
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: RAVEN               
Subject: Gee.....       
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:32:54
Message Number  4331

Hi again!  Thanx, I'll need plenty of luck...Turtle's on his way to 
my place to work on the program w/ me now....so, how's life? :)
     The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: RAVEN               
Subject: sleeping and ><
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:34:00
Message Number  4332

Still waiting for a reply!
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: YNGLING             
Subject: :)             
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:37:29
Message Number  4333

Dearest Yngling,
    I do miss you, too!  I'm living and I hope your case is coming along
in your favor!  Drop me a line sometime....
        The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: BIG BLACK DUDE      
Subject: Black is Back  
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:40:19
Message Number  4334

Shall I pass?
   The Lady In Black
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: BEATLE              
Subject: song           
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:40:51
Message Number  4335

NOPE! :>
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: SNAKEBYTE           
Subject: ummmmmm        
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:42:31
Message Number  4336

:>
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: JONBOY              
Subject: Hugo's there?  
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:46:00
Message Number  4337

Sounds cool to me...:)
   The Lady
===========

From: BLACK MAGIC         
To: BEATLE              
Subject: God...         
Date & Time: 05/08/90 20:49:54
Message Number  4338

PRO-CHOICE!!!!!!  Ghods, teenagers don't belong giving birth to babies, 
but then again....they shouldn't be getting pregnant in the first place!
PRO-CHOICE because it's a woman's right....
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: Real dips      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 21:57:14
Message Number  4342

The connection is obvious, dude: if you base your life around a
constant struggle to make it into heaven, the real world will look
pretty bad. Personally, I wonder if it might not be a better idea
to expend your resources trying to make the world around you better
than waiting for everything to get all better all by itself when you
die. ("Once you're past the graveyard, nothing can go wrong...")
                      --A dedicated Turtle
===========

From: TURTLE              
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: 286: Stone Age 
Date & Time: 05/08/90 22:00:06
Message Number  4343

I AM running real BBS software. Real /bad/ BBS software. Of course,
I don't think my attitudes toward 286 machines would change if I
switched to TBBS...
===========

From: KEN OBER            
To: ALL                 
Subject: HEHHEHE!       
Date & Time: 05/08/90 22:18:36
Message Number  4345

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEE'RRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEE      BBBBBBBBBAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCKKKKK!
 
(In theory, ya....)
 
THE  \A/B/R/A/C/A/D/A/B/R/A/  BBS!!!!
      \A/B/R/A/C/A/D/A/B/R/
       \A/B/R/A/C/A/D/A/B/
        \A/B/R/A/C/A/D/A/
         \A/B/R/A/C/A/D/
          \A/B/R/A/C/A/
           \A/B/R/A/C/
            \A/B/R/A/
             \A/B/R/
              \A/B/
               \A/
                ^
 
SysOp:  Tyler Robinson
Number:  813/378-2218
Settings:  8-N-1-1200
Modes:  ASCII
 
Hey, we used to be Remote Control! but now we are better!
 
Please understand that this setup isn't /great/....It is just temp-
orary until the HD and BBS software is purchased (In the next few
weeks).....We /should/ be running Paragon by the end on the month...
 
ANyways, please add us back to your autodial list, and call back
ASAP!
 
We support 300/1200 Baud 24 Hours a day!
 
HANDLES ARE ALLOWED!  When Paragon arrives, people who want access to
the non-handle FIDO echoes will have to have two accounts!  (One for
real name (to accomidate FIDO), and one for a handle (To accomidate 
local messages and/or handle FIDOS).)
 
CALL ASAP!
 
-Ken Ober-
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: This area      
Date & Time: 05/08/90 23:54:55
Message Number  4346

Yes, that's it.  How silly of me.  Z-System is an add-on for OS/2.  I
think it requires Presentation Manager, too, doesn't it?
===========

From: DONTHEN             
To: KEN OBER            
Subject: HEHHEHE!       
Date & Time: 05/08/90 23:56:47
Message Number  4347

The name of your system didn't appear in that message.  Was it in ANSI
or Amiga graphics or something else unuseful like that?
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: CORWYN OF AMBER     
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/09/90 00:48:48
Message Number  4349

hmmmmm.....I wonder if that 'Coyote syndrome' has anything to do with
the fact that I have no arms. OOOOOps.....for got, snakes don't got no
arms......whew, thought I'd missed something.....BADDDDDD.
===========

From: SNAKEBYTE           
To: DM2                 
Subject: -=*><*=-       
Date & Time: 05/09/90 00:51:15
Message Number  4350

I've got a whole pack of photo's of me in college that would probably 
get me arrested in most states, locked in a pack in a fire proof-locked 
safety box hidden in the house (away from th ol' lady). The bitch
about it is that I DIDN'T TAKE THEM...AND I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THE
NEGATIVES ARE!!! There's only about (hmmmm...how many photos in a stack
2-1/2" high)....oh well....life's lil' mysteries.
===========

