NUMBER OF LINES: 999
001=Usr:0 Null User         06/30/87 20:34  Msg:0 Call:0  Lines:19
  1$If you are in need of help, you need but ask...
  2$************************* INSTALLED: 26 JUL 89 ***************************
  3$Welcome to BWMS II (BackWater Message System II)  Mike Day System operator
  4$**************************************************************************
  5$GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS II IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
  6$                    PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
  7$BWMS II was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS II is a privately 
  8$owned and operated system which is currently open for use by the general
  9$public.  No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.  As the
 10$system is privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all
 11$messages which I may find offensive.  Because of the limited size of the
 12$system, it will be periodically purged of messages (only 999 lines of data
 13$can be saved).  To leave a message, type 'ENTER'.  Use ctrl/C to get out
 14$the ENTER mode.  The message is automatically stored.  If after entering
 15$the message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to
 16$replace the line.  To exit from the system, type 'BYE' then hang up.
 17$Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
 18$**************************************************************************
 19$ 
002=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY      07/26/89 21:08  Msg:4161 Call:22851  Lines:2
 20 Oh that I had wings like a dove! For then would I fly away, and be at rest.
 21 *************************************************************************
003=Usr:70 Kurfur Redlig     07/26/89 21:33  Msg:4162 Call:22853  Lines:12
 22 KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKurfur Redlig | Not Again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 23  
 24 Well, once again, I appear to be at the top.  Well, at least that's how it
 25 looks from way up here.  I gotta finish off that last disk, and now I get
 26 to start off this one.  Some people have all the luck, don't they?
 27  
 28                                    OLO
 29                                   \___/
 30                                      U
 31  
 32 KKKKKKKKKKKKKKurfur Redlig | Onwards and downwards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 33  
004=Usr:53 prince dragon     07/26/89 23:58  Msg:4163 Call:22858  Lines:6
 34 may 26 89???????
 35 why is the date on this disk 26 may 89??
 36 datecode is 89.7.27.00:06
 37 .-=-.-=-.-=-.
 38 off
 39 

005=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  07/27/89 12:59  Msg:4164 Call:22866  Lines:7
 40 &*&*&*&*'s
 41 THe date does indeed appear to be off. Strange, perhaps we are in fact 
 42 communicating with the past!
 43  
 44 An Astral Dreamer
 45 &*&*&*&*'s (Living in 7-27-89)
 46  
006=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    07/27/89 13:14  Msg:4165 Call:22868  Lines:94
 47 696969696969
 48 APn  07/26/89. By WILLIAM M. WELCH Associated Press Writer
 49    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Michael Dukakis walked off the stage after his final
 50 debate with George Bush and told a top aide, "I blew it," according to a new
 51 book about the presidential race.
 52    Dukakis knew he had committed a serious error by responding without emotion
 53 to a question about the possibility of his wife being raped and killed,
 54 political columnists Jack Germond and Jules Witcover write in "Whose Broad
 55 Stripes and Bright Stars? The Trivial Pursuit of the Presidency 1988."
 56    Aides were baffled at Dukakis' fumbled answer because the Massachusetts
 57 governor had rehearsed an effective answer to a soft-on-crime question 13 times
 58 during debate preparations.
 59    Advance copies of the book, published by Warner Books, drew notice earlier
 60 this month for critical comments about Vice President Dan Quayle attributed to
 61 Quayle's campaign aides.
 62    President Bush said he was offended by Republican advisers, quoted by Germon
 63 and Witcover, who called Quayle a "lightweight" and described him as having a
 64 childlike immaturity.
 65    Dukakis' debate response, widely criticized at the time, was to a question b
 66 moderator Bernard Shaw of CNN, who asked if he would favor the death penalty if
 67 his wife were raped and murdered.
 68    Germond and Witcover write that the three other journalists on the panel wer
 69 told of Shaw's question in advance and tried unsuccessfully to talk him into
 70 softening it.
 71    Dukakis' response began: "No, I don't, Bernard. And I think you know I've
 72 opposed the death penalty all of my life. I don't see any evidence that it's a
 73 deterrent, and I think there are better and more effective ways to deal with
 74 violent crime. We've done so in my own state."
 75    Dukakis' answer was flat and bloodless, and it was remembered by voters
 76 because it "captured the candidate's most glaring vulnerabilities," according t
 77 the book.
 78    The authors say Dukakis walked off the stage in Los Angeles and told top aid
 79 John Sasso, "I blew it."
 80    The book also describes the Bush campaign's successful focus on a handful of
 81 issues used to create negative feelings about Dukakis. Those issues included
 82 Dukakis' veto of a bill requiring students to say the pledge of allegiance, his
 83 support for a law allowing convicted murderers to be furloughed from prison and
 84 opposition to the death penalty.
 85  
 86 APn  07/24/89. By ROBERT M. ANDREWS Associated Press Writer
 87    WASHINGTON (AP) -- Holy Batroots! Is it really true, as some scientists
 88 suggest, that human beings and bats might be distant cousins who share the same
 89 primeval ancestors? Is there a Batman or Count Dracula lurking in each of us?
 90    In the heat of this summer's batmania, with American moviegoers breaking
 91 box-office records to see "Batman," anything seems possible.
 92    The National Zoo's bat expert, Dr. John Seidensticker, says it's an
 93 intriguing theory, one you could sink your teeth into, but he's not sure he
 94 believes it. Other scientists at the Smithsonian Institution scoff at the idea.
 95    Seidensticker says brain studies have yielded evidence that certain kinds of
 96 large bats found in Africa and the South Pacific may be descendants of
 97 prehistoric primates akin to lemurs or mouselike shrews.
 98    "The theory is that these bats are really flying primates," he says, and
 99 connected somehow in the evolutionary chain to the early primate ancestors of
100 monkeys, apes, gorillas -- and humans.
101    But Dr. Charles Handley, a leading authority on bats and other mammals at th
102 Smithsonian's National Museum of Natural History, says this theory is a "hot
103 potato" of scientific controversy that has won few adherents.
104    "We don't know what the ancestors of bats really were," Handley said.
105    The 160 fluttering bats in the National Zoo's new Bat Cave aren't talking.
106    In fact, they don't display the slightest familial interest in their suppose
107 two-legged cousins who stare intently through a glass wall into their dimly
108 lighted hideaway of damp rocks and hollow tree trunks.
109    One recent visitor was Vice President Dan Quayle and his children, who
110 attended the Washington premiere of "Batman" at a nearby movie theater and then
111 joined a post-screening party for 1,200 guests in a tent outside the Bat Cave.
112    Seidensticker, the zoo's associate curator of mammals, illuminated the cave
113 for Quayle with a flashlight. He said the vice president was "very interested"
114 in the bats and lingered for seven minutes, much longer than the average
115 tourist.
116    Seidensticker said bats "are not mice with wings, they are bats," and people
117 shouldn't be afraid of them.
118    "They actually are nice, fun, incredible animals," he says. "They're great
119 little guys."
120    Keeper Carol Prima, who wears a Batman baseball cap, says the bats have neve
121 bothered her. "They're not aggressive," she said. "If anything, they're just
122 curious."
123    They hover watchfully while she scrubs the cave walls or delivers their
124 meals. The bats, three species of fruit eaters, consume 30 pounds of grapes,
125 melons, bananas and a gruel of peach nectar and vitamins every day.
126    The rest of the time they fly back and forth, socialize in their "harems" an
127 just hang out. Or, more precisely, hang down. They also have active sex lives.
128    "They're continuously producing babies," Seidensticker says.
129    Ms. Prima says she's never felt threatened working in the Bat Cave.
130    "They never touch me, and they've never flown into my hair," she said. "They
131 keep their distance. They know you're there, but they aren't interested in
132 coming near you. They aren't accepting you as a bat."
133    "There's no need to fear these little guys," she says, although some visitor
134 have been seen anxiously sprinting past the Bat Cave without a glance.
135    The public's most frequently asked question, says Seidensticker, is "Where's
136 the Batmobile?"
137                                                                                
138 696969696969696969
139                                                                          
140 second most asked question:  "Where's the little batgirl's room?"
007=Usr:365 Ornac Owl         07/27/89 13:43  Msg:4166 Call:22869  Lines:56
141  
142              prsmen & Minutemen
143  
144        Perhaps the most bizarre aspect of the gun control movement is the 
145     emphasis it places on _not_ infringing of the sporting uses of firearms.
146        Gun control advocates of all stripes--all but the most doctrinaire of
147  h etitoste doae on the right of
148     Americans to keep and bear arms will do nothing to restrict the 
149     _legitimate_ rights of sportsmen.  They, of course, reserve the right to
150     determine what is legitimate and what is not.
151       The concern of gun grabers with the rights of sportsmen does not grow
152     out of a love of sport.  It grows out of the cold-eyed calculation that
153     any attempt to restrict firearms ownership that seriously infringed on
154     hunting and target shooting would alienate tens of millions of Americans
155     and result in the sitadpraetrmoval from office of those
156     public officals who support their cause.
157       But there is a second, more sinister motivation as well.  That is the 
158     need of gun control advocates to shift the debate away from the bedrock
159     isse--which is that the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental 
160     liberty protected by the Constitution and that those who would restrict
161     that rigtaeavctn  sweeping assault on the liberty of the 
162     American people.  Gun grabbers know that if the restrictions they
163     advocate are debated in terms of the Second Amendment their position
164     is indefensible.  So they are desperate to reformulate the argument in
165     terms more favorable to them.  By casting the case for and agaisnt gun
166    ownership in terms of "sporting purposes" they trivialize the
167     constitutional issue.
168       Or so they think.
169       While it is self-evidentl reta h eod Amendment was not put
170      in the Constituition to protect the right to shoot ducks--it was put 
171     there to ensure that no government would have a monopoly on the tools of
172     coercive force and to ensure that individual Americans would have access
173      to the instruments of self-defense--there is in fact a crucial link
174     between so-called sport shooting and the fundamental right to keep and
175   ba rms.
176       It is this:  If firearms are to be used competently the user must
177     practice.
178       America is a reasonably civilized place, and the occasions when a 
179     citizen msut use a weapon for a constitutionally protected purpose--self-
180     defense for instance--occur relatively infrequently.  But that is all the
181     more reason why the opportunity to train and practice with the weapons
182     that will be used in critical.  There is rarely time to become proficient
183   we h olf is at the door.
184       The truth is that there is nothing trivial about using firearms for 
185     sporting purposes, any more that theere is anything trivial about basic
186     training.  Allowing gun grabbers to determine what firearms  can
187     appropriately be used for sporting purposes and the appropriate time,
188     place and manner of their use is like allowing pacifists to determine
189   hwthe Army should train for battle.
190       Make no mistake--using firearms for sporitng purposes is using firearms
191     for training.  And limiting the ability to train to 19th century arms--as
192     gun grabbers are in effect doing when they propose to ban semiautomatic
193     arms--is a profound infringement on the right to keep and bear arms.
194  
195 By Robert K. Brown
196  
008=Usr:70 Kurfur Redlig     07/27/89 20:46  Msg:4167 Call:22878  Lines:28
197 KKKKKKKKKKKKurfur Redlig | Up next....  More batty facts..................
198  
199 It's interesting in the recent article on bats that the zoo bat specialist
200 tended to clump the bats into only 1 group.  From what I learned and read
201 (mostly in biology a few years back), there are actually two different
202 types of 'bat'.  One is the microthoptera, or true bats.  These are the
203 small carnivorous beasties with the large ears, sonar, that eat insects
204 (although they do include the infamous 'vampire' bat in their ranks). The
205 other group is the megathoptera, or flying foxes.  These are the large
206 bats (some with wingspans in excess of 4 feet) with small ears and 
207 elongated muzzels that have only rudimentary (if any) sonar.  These flying
208 giants are all herbivorous, eating only fruit and nectar.
209 	I was informed that the two groups of bats were not closely related at
210 all, only being as close as say a canine is to a feline.  The true bats,
211 carnivores, are probably descended from weasels or badger relatives (very
212 distantly), while the flying foxes are descended from the original lemur
213 (primate) stock and are relatives of humans (very distantly).  What we
214 basically have is synchronous evolution; two species evolving similiar
215 characteristics the exploit the same method, in this case flight, but for
216 different means, to catch prey or to find tree fruit.  It's basically the
217 same mechanism that causes dolphins to look like the extinct itchthyosaurs.
218 They both used the same method, and therefore evolved the same form (to
219 a certain degree).  In this manner, some bats are our cousins, and others
220 aren't.
221 If you are actually reading this, which you probably aren't, tell me 
222 your opinion on the matter. 
223  
224 KKKKurfur Redlig | When it comes to bats, I like to wing it :) Ha Ha!!!!!
009=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY      07/27/89 21:21  Msg:4168 Call:22880  Lines:4
225 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
226 Well, if you take evolution as being the way of things, then technically,
227 at some point in the past bats and humans DID have a common ancestor.
228 ---------------------------- M ------------------------------------------
010=Usr:4 Milchar           07/27/89 23:42  Msg:4169 Call:22885  Lines:6
229 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
230 Yep.  'Twas my Great^2342820 Granpa, Fred Ameoba.
231 +++++++++++++++++++++
232 Ghandi II- This time he's ticked off.  Coming soon to a vidscreen near
233 you.
234 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
011=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill     07/28/89 16:17  Msg:4170 Call:22903  Lines:102
235 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
236 NOTE:  To those who might be offended, I would like to clarify something.
237        In this article, I use the word 'he' as a neutral pronoun.  I do not
238        do so in order to imply that women are incapable of rational thought
239        or any other such nonsense.  Neither is the hypothetical person 
240        introduced in this article intended to characterize either M or 
241        Kurfur.  I have done both these things purely out of convenience
242        and in the interest of making the article more readable.  To 
243        paraphrase Lee Iacocca, "If you can find a better pronoun, use it."
244  
245 >	In response to some of the previous comments in some of the previous 
246 > messages, I must state that a state of being good or bad does not
247 > necessarily also mean better or worse.  It was stated that for one to 
248 > believe in there being 'better information' they had to believe in the
249 > concepts of good and bad.  That is not necessarily true.
250  
251     I agree that 'better information' cannot mean 'more moral information'
252 since moral judgements cannot be pronounced on objects.  Information itself
253 can only be said to be better in the sense that it is more logical. My 
254 point is that when applied to moral systems, the information must indicate
255 a better (more morally good) system, or it is useless. My wording was poor.
256  
257 > Better 
258 > information could just mean that it was more accurate, from a more 
259 > reliable source, or made more sense.
260  
261     The first two cases seem to me to be saying the same thing in 
262 different ways.  Information that will change someone's view of what is 
263 right and what is wrong has to deal with the issues of right and wrong.
264 To say that a given piece of information is more accurate is to say that
265 it conforms more closely to the truth - which in this case is 'right'.
266 The only value of a more reliable source is that it is more likely to 
267 give accurate information.  With information which simply 'makes more 
268 sense,' you may have a point, though I don't think it is the one you 
269 intended to make.
270     I take 'makes more sense' to mean that it fits in better with the
271 rules of logic as the person understands them.  From here the person may
272 take two roads:  he may say that there is an absolute logical truth,
273 while rejecting the absolute moral truth, or he may reject both.
274     If he rejects both, he is saying that his idea of 'logic' is 
275 completely subjective and has no relevance to anything.  He has lost all
276 capacity for distinguishing information.  To say that information is 
277 more logical is to say nothing about the information, only about how he
278 *feels* about it, which by his own definition is completely arbitrary.
279 To say otherwise would be to admit that there is truth.  All that is 
280 left to him is what he happens to feel at the moment, and his philosophy
281 becomes literally 'if it feels good, do it.'  The worst part is that 
282 his other option is no better.
283     If he accepts absolute logical truth, then he is saying that he 
284 believes that there is some one system of logic which is correct, and
285 (if he is going to say anything) that he has some understanding of that
286 system.  However, in rejecting the idea that some beliefs are better
287 than others, he cannot get farther than the statement 'This system is more 
288 logical.'  To say 'Therefore, I *should* adopt this system' contradicts
289 his stated premise.  The 'should' implies that he sees the one system as
290 not simply different, but better.  He sees (rightly, I believe) that a
291 more logical system _is_ a *morally better* system.  But he has eliminated
292 this possibility already.  He has no grounds on which to prefer a more 
293 logical system to a less logical one.  The best he can say is 'I will
294 adopt this new belief system because it is the one I want to adopt.'
295     The person may, of course, say then that Logic is the One Measure of 
296 the good of a philosophy.  While this is admitting *one* thing as being 
297 morally better than another, he may yet find it acceptable.  But in the
298 practical sense, he has not changed his view at all.  Moral systems do not
299 start with logical principles, but with moral ones, and simply adding the
300 constraint of logical coherence is tying the ethereal beast with material
301 cords.  Certainly, maintaining that there are no (other) concepts of good
302 is logical (Indeed, it is the view our hypothetical person holds).  But we
303 are back where we started.  Anything the person feels like doing is open
304 to him.  His moral system (i.e. that there are no morals) is logical, and
305 there is no further constraint.  He has no grounds for preferring one 
306 action to another other than the fact that he *wants* to do some things,
307 and doesn't want to do others.  The logical constraint does absolutely
308 nothing.  Any time he wants to say of something, 'I *ought* to do this,'
309 he must appeal to an objective moral truth, or admit that this is just
310 some arbitrary feeling and that by 'ought' he really means 'want.'
311  
312 >  Whether information is
313 > 'more gooder' or 'more badder' (for want of better expressions) depends
314 > on what the reciever of the information wants to hear.  If, during a war,
315 > a general recieves information that half troops were dead, and there was
316 > reliable evidence to back up this info (pictures etc.), while a wild
317 > rumor earlier said that the general had only lost one eighth of his
318 >troops, the info that half were dead would be regarded as better, but 
319 > 'badder' information than the rumor.
320  
321     I must say first that things which are morally good are not necessarily
322 in all other ways good.  The reliable information is regarded as logically
323 better since it is far more likely to be true.  The general would do moral
324 good to adjust his tactics accordingly.  The fact that the information is
325 good in the logical sense has no bearing on how good it will make the
326 general feel.  I do, however, see your point that information cannot be 
327 *morally* good, since information is a thing, not an action or a motive.
328 I often make the mistake of fusing moral and logical truth together, since
329 they don't really survive without each other, but I concede that they are
330 essentially separate.
331    
332 "When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future,       _
333 don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn                /#)
334 into a fossil." -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts"            n   n   n (#/ 
335                                                         / ~~~ ~~~ \/
336 */*/*/*/*/*/*/ -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
012=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY      07/28/89 23:12  Msg:4171 Call:22914  Lines:38
337 There are some problems I have with the words "right", and "truth". 
338 These words are usually used to 'prove' that a statement is correct.
339 This is not a problem in itself, but all to often a person will use
340 the statement to prove that _their_ version of the "truth" is the _only_
341 version possible. Thus I tend to shy away from the usage and when I do
342 I try to qualify my usage as being *my* view point. I don't even want to 
343 get into morals, because that is a massive can of worms to deal with that
344 is purely personal in nature. Yet far too many people believe that _their_
345 moral system is the only acceptable system and that allother people must
346 be forced to comply to their personal vision of reality. 
347   I don't seek after "truth" in that sense, I seek after information. 
348 I accept the concept that there may be many "truths". I try to understand 
349 the alternate truths so that I can better understand how other people 
350 think and how they have formed their reality. 
351    I operate within the current version of my own reality, but I also 
352 recognize that there are other realities and other versions of the 
353 truth that may not fit my own. This does not make them right or wrong,
354 it only makes them different. 
355    For some people Jesus was the son of God, for others he was just a
356 man who happen to be in the right place at the right time. Some people
357 demand that one view or the other be the only acceptable reality, so
358 they pick one and deny the other. Yet, they are both perfectly valid
359 views of reality that depend on your belief system. 
360    Morality is even messier, because it is totally tied to a belief
361 system. Though morality is often justified by logical proofs, it is
362 based in beliefs not logic. The logical proof is an attempt to 
363 scientifically prove that a specific morality is the "right" one
364 and that all others are "wrong". I of course have my own belief
365 system and my own moral system, but I also recognize that there are
366 other moral systems and do not presume that my versin of reality
367 is the only one or necesarily the proper and valid one for all 
368 people. Though I'll certainly fight to keep my reality intact if
369 it is attacked by another. 
370    Mostly though, I tend to point out that one person's belief system
371 is not the only possible one when I see that stance taken. It doesn't
372 always gain me a favorable response, but at least they know where I'm
373 coming from, and just maybe they will think about it.
374 ---------------------------------M --------------------------------
013=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY      07/28/89 23:54  Msg:4172 Call:22915  Lines:3
375 Tomorrow night (saturday) Ch 10 will show the last Monty Python
376 show produced. 
377 *************************************************************
014=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    07/29/89 18:47  Msg:4173 Call:22931  Lines:1
378 Too tired to think.
015=Usr:366 berney dunn       07/29/89 21:11  Msg:4174 Call:22936  Lines:15
379 Are you sure there is no "better" or "worse" ?
380 There is a quite simple test of this, and then we can extend it with
381 logic, if necessary. "Does it feel good?" But you must also include ALL
382 'side effects'. In other words "it feels good now" doesn't cut it.
383  
384 Or you could just choose a few basic principals, and extend them with logic,
385 such as humans have value, pain is undersirable, and from there build most
386 all of morality. Or perhaps accept that what existing people want as what is
387 good for them. (But there you will run into logical contrdictions.)
388  
389 I would consider anything that causes more pain as bad, and anything that
390 reduces it as good. Morality is only meaningful when tied to humans, and we
391 (you are human, aren't you?) are mortal, physical beings, with normal 
392 animal needs, therefore we can form a logical morality based on these.
393 ................................B.A.D. ................................
016=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY      07/29/89 22:03  Msg:4175 Call:22938  Lines:20
394  
395  
396 Archivists:  Please note the following disks. Let me know which
397 ones you are missing so that I can get you updated. If you notify
398 me before the PCS meeting this coming thursday I can bring them along. 
399 Note that we are currently working on disk #100! The disk in drive B
400 as of the date of this writing (29jun89) will be the first of the 
401 group of five BW disks that will be archived to disk #100.
402  
403 #90 18nov87   10dec87   29dec87   23jan88   13feb88
404 #91 02mar88   19mar88   09apr88   17may88   05jun88
405 #92 26jun88   05jul88   13jul88   20jul88   29jul88
406 #93 06aug88   11aug88   19aug88   31aug88   07sep88
407 #94 15sep88   24sep88   30sep88   27oct88   12nov88
408 #95 09dec88   30dec88   11jan89   18jan89   26jan89
409 #96 05feb89   12feb89   18feb89   27feb89   04mar89
410 #97 12mar89   18mar89   24mar89   31mar89   11apr89
411 #98 20apr89   24apr89   02may89   07may89   13may89
412 #99 23may89   08jun89   16jun89   25jun89   09jul89
413 *************************** Mikey ************************************
017=Usr:498 Hagbard Celine ,  07/30/89 13:57  Msg:4176 Call:22950  Lines:52
414  
415 {}
416  
417    Things are heating up! - and so is the summer heat.  I haven't seen
418 such a composed debate since the last abortion/gun control bout.
419  
420    My 2 cents:
421  
422    Logic is, in itself, self-defeating.  If you can think of a single
423 paradox, then you will find what I am describing.  Don't believe that
424 logic is all-proof.  After all, how do you define logic?  There is
425 nothing lower: you have reached the foundation of modern understanding.
426 Below this lies mysticism and religion, at the "cross-over point" between
427 fact and faith.
428  
429    As for the good-evil thing, before anyone makes another entry, have
430 you considered that good and evil are self-defining?  "What is good
431 shall not be evil, but what is Evil, shall not be good."  Again, we
432 come back to the concepts of shared fictions, beliefs, and "points
433 of view".  That is all YOU can be sure of - that "I think, therefore
434 I am", and that your view is simply a view, reguardless of moral,
435 logical, or ethical values.  To say that good and evil are evident,
436 is accepting pre-defined values.  Start from the beginning (foundation)
437 and work your way there, or start from here (acceptence of belief)
438 an work your way back to the foundation.  But don't start from the middle
439 and go both ways - unless you wish to discuss mysticism, cults, religions,
440 belief systems, cultures, etc. anything that has a prominent double-
441 standard within a system that accepts only a single standard.
442  
443    Gee, more mindless drivel.
444  
445    Hagbard, looking a little more interested, but still slightly
446             bored with the lecture.  c'mon, turn up the heat a little
447             more 'n get the kettle going, just be sure to not let it
448             boil over!
449  
450    PS.  as for the comment "just do it because it feels good" and the
451         mudslinging on that, well, you seem to forget that most
452         acceptances are done FOR THAT REASON.  Do you thing people convert
453         to Christianity because they wish to torture themselves?  Of
454         course not!  They want to have a comfortable conscience.
455         Gee, we can't have that! ;->)
456  
457 {}
458 {}
459  
460    "Gee, more mindless drivel" - I don't know which is worst right now,
461 me or my writing!
462  
463    H. Celine, feeling like a half-guru!
464  
465 {}
018=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    07/30/89 17:44  Msg:4177 Call:22955  Lines:100
466 Too tired to think...
467  
468  
469 CUCUMBERS ARE BETTER THAN MEN BECAUSE....... The average
470  
471 cucumber is at least six inches long. Cucumbers stay hard for a
472  
473 week. A cucumber won't tell you size don't count. Cucumbers
474  
475 don't get TOO excited. A cucumber never suffers from
476  
477 performance anxiety.
478  
479 *************
480  
481 Cucumbers are easy to pick up. You can fondle cucumbers in a
482  
483 supermarket... and you know how firm it is before you take it
484  
485 home.
486  
487 *************
488  
489 Cucumbers can get away any weekend. With a cucumber you can get
490  
491 a single room and you won't  have to check in as 'Mrs
492  
493 Cucumber'. A cucumber will always respect you in the morning. 
494  
495 You can go to the movie with a cucumber and see the movie At a
496  
497 drive in you can stay in the front seat. A cucumber can always
498  
499 wait until you get home. A cucumber won't eat all the popcorn. 
500  
501 A cucumber won't drag you out to a John Wayne Film Festival.
502  
503 *************
504  
505 A cucumber won't ask: 'Am I first?' Cucumbers don't care
506  
507 wheather you're a virgin. Cucumbers won't tell other cucumbers
508  
509 you're a virgin. Cucumbers won't tell anyone you're not a
510  
511 virgin. With cucumbers, you don't have to be a virgin more than
512  
513 once. Cucumbers won't write your name and number on men's room
514  
515 wall. Cucumbers don't have sex hang-ups. Cucumbers won't ask:
516  
517 'Am i the best','How was it?' 'Did you come?', 'How many
518  
519 times?' Cucumbers aren't jealous of your gynecologist, ski
520  
521 instructer or hair dresser. Cucumbers won't ask about your last
522  
523 lover or speculate about your next one. A cucumber will never
524  
525 make a scene because there are other cucumbers in the
526  
527 refrigerator. A cucumber won't mind hiding in the refrigerator
528  
529 when your mother comes over. No matter how old you are you can
530  
531 always get a fresh cucumber.
532  
533 *************
534  
535 Cucumbers can handle rejection. A cucumber won't pout if you
536  
537 have a headache. A cucumber won't care what time of the month
538  
539 it is. A cucumber never wants to get it on when your nails are
540  
541 wet. A cucumber won't give it up for lent. With a cucumber, you
542  
543 never have to say your sorry.
544  
545 **************
546  
547 Cucumbers won't leave whisker burns, fall asleep on your chest
548  
549 or drool on the pillow. A cucumber will never give you a
550  
551 hickey. Cucumbers can stay up ALL night and you won't have to
552  
553 sleep in the wet spot.
554  
555 ***************
556  
557 A cucumber won't work your crossword in ink. A cucumber isn't
558  
559 allergic to your cat. Cucumbers never answer your phone or
560  
561 borrow your car. A cucumber won't eat all your food or drink
562  
563 all your liquor. A cucumber doesn't turn your bathroom into a
564  
565 library. Cucumbers won't go through your medicine chest. A
019=Usr:367 Mark Derby        07/30/89 20:52  Msg:4178 Call:22958  Lines:9
566  
567 L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_snailhead_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_
568  
569 If it weren't for "evil", then "good" wouldn't look so good, would it?
570  
571 Cucumbers are good for a Pimm's Cup, too.
572  
573 L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_L_
574  
020=Usr:352 Katie Kolbet      07/30/89 21:50  Msg:4179 Call:22961  Lines:8
575 Alright, what's all this Cucumber stuff?  
576  
577  
578  
579  
580 Hagberd, have you heard of the most original moralist in England, and Alfred
581 P. 
582 Doolittle?  (FROM MY FAIR LADY!!!!!)
021=Usr:116 Michael Gray      07/31/89 02:26  Msg:4180 Call:22968  Lines:10
583 ______________________________________________________________
584 Mikey,
585      Wonderful!  Just saw your list-o-disks... again.
586 (Omigosh! Bright lightning outside! Time for my back-ups!)
587 Anyway, back to disk.  I went back over my list; in order to
588 catch up I will need the disks you have listed: 90-99.
589 (More Blue Light, with accompanying chorus.)
590 _____________see_you_on_Thursday__________________________mg__
591 swob:  I missed that one.  Thanks for the explaination.
592 ____________________________________________________mr_gumby__
022=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  07/31/89 09:07  Msg:4181 Call:22971  Lines:6
593 &*&*&*&*'s
594 Just lurking. Oh where oh where has my little inept but sincere muse gone?
595  
596 An Astral Dreamer
597 &*&*&*&*'s (Speaking of a metephorical muse.)
598  
023=Usr:4 Milchar           07/31/89 23:04  Msg:4182 Call:22984  Lines:4
599 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
600 CM: I require disks 97-99, plus one or two ancient history (near Jan 87
601 I believe, let me check on that).
602 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
024=Usr:219 Friar Mossback    08/01/89 08:58  Msg:4183 Call:22989  Lines:6
603 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
604 Mikey-
605 What are disks going for these days?  What if you had to buy the whole set?
606 On MS-DOS?  How about with disks provided?
607 Friar
608 [][][][][][][][][][][][][]   Friar    [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
025=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    08/01/89 18:12  Msg:4184 Call:22994  Lines:100
609 696969696969                                                                   
610  JAPAN TOPS IN BANK ASSETS:-7/26/89
611     For the first time ever, the 10 largest banks in the world are all 
612 Japanese, according to American Banker's annual rankings based on assets. 
613 Citicorp - the biggest U.S. bank, assets: $203.8 billion - fell from No. 10 
614 last year to No. 12. It was displaced as No. 10 by Mitsubishi Trust, assets 
615 $210 billion.
616     The reason the Japanese have the world's 10 largest banks is partially due 
617 to the rise in the yen's value vs. other currencies. That's made the value of 
618 their assets grow. Plus, savings rates are high in Japan, so deposits have 
619 ballooned. However, Japanese banks aren't the world's most profitable, 
620 although recent figures show their profits are improving. U.S. banks fare 
621 better.
622  HUD PROGRAM A LOSER, PAPER SAYS:-7/20/89
623     A HUD home-fixup loan program has cost taxpayers at least $300 million 
624 since 1979, according to a USA TODAY review of HUD audits. Despite the losses 
625 and demands it be scrapped, the program is still operating under Department of 
626 Housing and Urban Development Secretary Jack Kemp. Price tag of the growing 
627 HUD scandal: $2.5 billion and climbing.
628 HOUSE HAS EYE ON IRS OFFICIALS:-7/26/89
629     House investigators say they have found serious integrity problems and 
630 misconduct by some senior officials at the Internal Revenue Service. A one-
631 year investigation revealed that IRS national office officials ignored 
632 wrongdoing by senior managers in Washington, D.C., and elsewhere. Also, that 
633 alleged misconduct was often investigated superficially, allowing wrongdoers 
634 to go free.
635 WORKERS BLOW WHISTLE ON IRS:-7/27/89
636     IRS workers Wednesday charged managers with ethical misconduct and 
637 intimidation of whistleblowers. Current and ex-employees told a House 
638 Government Operations subcommittee the problem was compounded by wrongdoers 
639 frequently escaping punishment and the investigations unit lacking 
640 credibility. The hearings come after an investigation of abuse of power 
641 throughout the IRS senior management level.
642 IRS ACCUSED OF BLOCKING HUNT:-7/28/89
643     The IRS - battered by employee charges of wrongdoing - was accused by a 
644 congressman Thursday of blocking an investigation of a drugs-for-guns 
645 operation between Arkansas and Central America. Rep. Bill Alexander, D-Ark., 
646 said the Internal Revenue Service wouldn't allow investigators to talk with 
647 IRS drug investigator William Duncan about the smuggling operation.
648 ANOTHER MISMANAGED HUD OFFICE:-7/28/89
649     In April 1988, auditors for the Department of Housing and Urban 
650 Development found more than $1 million in uncashed checks and money orders in 
651 boxes and desk drawers - some sitting for more than a year - in the agency's 
652 Jackson, Miss., office. The money came from everything from sales of HUD 
653 properties to loan application fees to earnest money on home purchases, 
654 auditors said.
655 REP. - PIERCE MIGHT HAVE LIED:-8/1/89
656     Former Housing Secretary Samuel Pierce and his top aide might have lied 
657 under oath to congressional investigators, Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., chairman 
658 of the subcommittee investigating the HUD scandal, said Monday. He cited 
659 testimony ex-aide Deborah Gore Dean gave a Senate panel two years ago that 
660 contradicts testimony provided by Pierce.
661 IRS ACCUSED OF BLOCKING HUNT:-7/28/89
662     The IRS - battered by employee charges of wrongdoing - was accused by a 
663 congressman Thursday of blocking an investigation of a drugs-for-guns 
664 operation between Arkansas and Central America. Rep. Bill Alexander, D-Ark., 
665 said the Internal Revenue Service wouldn't allow investigators to talk with 
666 IRS drug investigator William Duncan about the smuggling operation.
667 COOKING WITH THE IRS:-7/28/89
668     IRS workers want to help out in the kitchen, says USA WEEKEND's July 28-30 
669 issue. The IRS Employees Cookbook, out this August, is chock full of non-
670 taxing recipes. Dishes include Loss-agne, 1040 E-Z Pound Cake and Divine 
671 Dividend Peanut Butter Cookies. Rest assured, the profits from the cookbook 
672 will go to the publishers, not the IRS.
673 SANDINISTAS MARK REVOLUTION:-7/20/89
674     Before a crowd of more than 100,000 chanting, flag-waving Nicaraguans 
675 celebrating the 10th anniversary of the Sandinista revolution, President 
676 Daniel Ortega Wednesday struck a new conciliatroy tone and appealed for 
677 "serenity" in Nicaragua, Thursday's Washington Post reports.
678  
679  OAS HIT TEAM WANTS MORE TIME:
680     A three-nation Organization of American States mission dispatched to 
681 Panama singled out Gen. Manuel Noriega Wednesday as the key problem in solving 
682 Panama's political and economic woe. It sought and was expected to get four 
683 more weeks to complete its task - finding a solution that ousts Noriega. The 
684 extension of the OAS mission would be its second since the group was formed in 
685 mid-May.
686 KHASHOGGI REMAINS IN JAIL:-7/27/89
687     Saudi Arabian financier Adnan Khashoggi, 54, is still in jail, despite a 
688 lower court ruling he could be freed on $10 million bail. Prosecutors appealed 
689 and Khashoggi - charged with fraud for business dealings with former 
690 Philippine leader Ferdinand Marcos and wife Imelda - must stay in jail until a 
691 ruling on appeal is made.
692 U.S. SAYS CONTRAS MUST GO:-7/28/89
693     The United States shifted policy Thursday and joined 14 other United 
694 Nations Security Council members in calling for the disbanding of the 
695 Nicaraguan Contras as part of the Central America peace plan. The resolution, 
696 adopted by consensus, appealed to all nations to halt military aid to 
697 guerrillas in the region. But it does allow continued humanitarian aid to the 
698 Nicaraguan rebels.
699     Presidential and parliamentary elections in Nicaragua are set for Feb. 25, 
700 1990. The U.N. and the Organization of American States have agreed to provide 
701 poll watchers. Most of the Contras have been living with their families in 
702 border camps in Honduras since Congbess halted military aid to them in 
703 February 1988.
704 U.S. HOSTAGE IN DEEP PERIL:-8/1/89
705     The presumed hanging death of Marine Lt. Col. William Higgins leaves the 
706 fate of other hostages in the balance, especially Joseph Cicippio's, a U.S. 
707 citizen threatened by his captors with execution Tuesday. The Revolutionary 
708 Justice Organization - the Shiite Moslem group holding Cicippio - vowed he 
026=Usr:287 Ralph Steadman    08/01/89 18:49  Msg:4185 Call:22995  Lines:57
709 .......................oops, miscounted lines.................
710 U.S. HOSTAGE IN DEEP PERIL:-8/1/89
711     The presumed hanging death of Marine Lt. Col. William Higgins leaves the 
712 fate of other hostages in the balance, especially Joseph Cicippio's, a U.S. 
713 citizen threatened by his captors with execution Tuesday. The Revolutionary 
714 Justice Organization - the Shiite Moslem group holding Cicippio - vowed he 
715 would be killed at 11 a.m. EDT Tuesday unless Israel freed the Shiite cleric 
71& Israel kidnapped.
717     U.S. Middle East experts agree Israeli's kidnapping of a Shiite cleric 
718 last week will strain U.S.-Israel ties. Monday, Senate GOP Leader Robert Dole 
719 of Kansas vented that feeling when he said, "Perhaps a little more 
720 responsibility on the part of the Israelis would be refreshing." But the Bush 
721 administration says it does not blame Israel for the execution of Lt. Col. 
722 William Higgins.
723     The presumed death of U.S. hostage Lt. Col. William Higgins leaves 21 
724 missing and believed held hostage in Lebanon. Nine are U.S. citizens. They are 
725 also four Britons including one with dual Irish citizenship, three Iranians, 
726 two West Germans, an Egyptian, an Italian and a Lebanese-French.
727     
728 AGENCY SAYS TAKE CARE IN KENYA:
729     The U.S. government is warning tourists to stay away from Kenya. The U.S. 
730 Department of State action comes in the wake of Thursday's attack on a U.S. 
731 tour group in Kenya in which one person died. The warning pins recent violence 
732 on "heavily armed wildlife poachers" and urges U.S. residents visiting Kenya 
733 to travel in groups with a guide from a "reputable safari firm or a game 
734 ranger."
735 TOPIC - FREEING HOSTAGES:
736     Brian Jenkins, head of the terrorism research program at the RAND Corp., a 
737 private, non-profit research organization in Santa Monica, Calif., and Peggy 
738 Say, sister of Terry Anderson, the longest-held hostage, talk with USA TODAY's 
739 Barbara Reynolds and Wendy Buchert about freeing hostages.
740  HOW SHOULD WE RESPOND TO THE EXECUTION OF LT. COL. WILLIAM HIGGINS?
741     JENKINS: Rather than the use of force, the response has to be, to a 
742 certain degree, tranquil. It is unfortunate to see opportunities in tragedies, 
743 but we ought to take it as an occasion for opening a dialogue to see what we 
744 can do to resolve the entire hostage episode before further tragedies occur.
745  DOES THIS EXECUTION SIGNAL THAT OTHER HOSTAGES WILL BE KILLED?
746     JENKINS: Insofar as we are able to sort out the groups within the murky 
747 milieu of Lebanon, those people who were holding Higgins are believed to be 
748 different from those holding the other hostages in Lebanon. We still believe 
749 that Iran has a measure of influence over the others.
750  DID ISRAEL INITIATE THE EXECUTION BY KIDNAPPING THE MOSLEM LEADER?
751     JENKINS: In the Middle East, sometimes one precipitated action leads to 
752 another precipitated action. In combating terrorism, one has to be very 
753 careful not to use tactics which appear to be indistinguishable from the 
754 tactics of the terrorists themselves.
755  HOW ARE HOSTAGES' FAMILIES REACTING TO U.S. ACTION?
756     SAY: I urge President Bush and the Congress to use restraint in responding 
757 to reports of the hanging of Lt. Col. William Higgins by his kidnappers. I 
758 have spoken with relatives of Joseph Cicippio, whom Shiite Moslem extremists 
759 say will be the next to be killed if Sheik Abdul Karim Obeid is not released 
760 Tuesday. Cicippio's family is saying what I am saying - violence begets 
761 nothing but violence.
762                                                                              
763                                                   amen.                        
764 696969696969696969
765                                                                                
027=Usr:47 John Dilks        08/01/89 19:21  Msg:4186 Call:22997  Lines:4
766 A nice well placed tactical nuke would help the most. 
767 Everytime they kill a hostage, nuke a village. 
768 pretty soon they should start to get the idea.
769 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
028=Usr:343 black art         08/01/89 19:38  Msg:4187 Call:22998  Lines:11
770     Nothing's Boy...
771       Now climbs the Sprials of his light...
772     His Tick-Tock muscles measures...
773       In it's closed circle.....
774     His bloods own free flowing....
775       Ups will bring him down....
776     ... to the clouds of Zero...
777  
778                   Leaving the world alittle more sureal than I found it,
779                       ** Black Art **
780 @#@#@#@##@#@#@#@#
029=Usr:368 Nemesis Warlock   08/01/89 21:35  Msg:4188 Call:22999  Lines:10
781 [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_
782 So, good citizens, what manner of topic traverses the hall this night?  When I 
783 lahappened upon the Inn, all was     quiet save for the gnawing of mice. . .
784 In truth, can it be said that those     worthy folk who consider themselves the
785 true patrons of Innisfall have returned?
786  
787 Nemesis
788  
789 (10 Points extra to anyone who catches  the reference & border shape!!!)
790 [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_  [(*)---_
030=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  08/01/89 21:48  Msg:4189 Call:23000  Lines:4
791  
792 Don't look upon the shape that's forming. Lest observation should destroy
793 it.
794  
031=Usr:33 Mike Stanfill     08/01/89 22:01  Msg:4190 Call:23001  Lines:88
795 /*/*/*/*/*/*/*
796     I should probably answer this first:  Hagbard (I think) makes the
797      very good point that the fact that something "feels good" is the
798      actual reason people do lots of things.  Even in self-sacrificing
799      things, often they are looking forward to something better - that
800      is, something that *feels* better.  If I imply that "if it feels
801      good, do it" is a bad philosophy, I either think pleasure is bad
802      (Stoicism?), or I mean by "feels good" something different from
803      what most people actually practice.  As I think everyone out there
804      will agree, pleasure is good.  Therefore my one option is left.
805           What I mean by "feels good" is this:  that a whole bunch of
806      (often conflicting) urges all come along and demand gratification.
807      Most people, when they say that they 'want' to do something, do 
808      not mean that ALL their desires point them toward that action.  
809      They usually mean that the faction with the most combined strength
810      points in that direction.  To the person who believes in morals,
811      some of these things he wants to do are good, and some are bad.
812      He is certainly free to choose what he does not *WANT* to do, and
813      sometimes does because he sees that his desires conflict with his
814      morals (sometimes not, but that's another story).  But to the one
815      who does not believe in morals, to say that a particular want
816      (that is, a sum of desires) runs contrary to his beliefs is to
817      say nothing in particular about it.  He has no grounds on which 
818      to deny whatever want he has.
819           I freely admit that these wants may be for things not 
820      immediately available.  He may refuse some of his desires which
821      want to have the convenience of eating at McDonald's in order
822      to satisfy *stronger* desires which want to save money for some 
823      reason.  He does not see that reason as better than the convenience;
824      he can only say it is what he wants more.  It could be anything a
825      person might want.
826           Hagbard is, of course, right in saying that people become
827      Christians because of their conscience.  Being forgiven for all
828      the bad things you ever did also gives you a good feeling, but
829      that feeling is prompted by the change that comes in the 
830     conscience.  Note that I have separated the conscience from the
831      feelings which it may produce.  The conscience itself is logical,
832      weighing desires and actions against the person's beliefs.  When
833      one discovers he has done something wrong, he feels bad about it.
834      In time, these feelings become associated with certain actions or
835      thoughts (or whatever happened to be similar through many such 
836      experiences).  These feelings may reflect the actual wrongness of 
837      an action, or they may be something completely neutral.  If you 
838      pulled the wings off flies at a certain window when you were young,
839      you may feel bad when you lean on a windowsill.  This does not mean
840      that the window is bad, and your conscience will tell you this.
841      The thing that conditioned the bad feeling also tells you when that
842      feeling is not logical or appropriate.  But the person who rejects
843      morality cannot make this judgement, since he rejects the authority
844      of the conscience.  He may say that 'since it is not logical to 
845      dislike a window, I can ignore this feeling,' but he must make the 
846      same judgement for other feelings, since no feelings are logical.
847      Judgement of motives is a moral activity.  He may say that 'since
848      there is no morality, then surely this feeling is unfounded and 
849      therefore can be ignored,' but he must say the same for all other
850      feelings and banish all motivations from his mind.  He must accept
851      all feelings or reject all feelings, because he has renounced the
852      only basis he has for comparing them.
853           To people who believe in morals, some feelings are more 
854      morally correct than others.  Such people give precedence to the
855      feelings the conscience agrees with.  Both the Moral and the Amoral
856      may have the same feeling that they want to do something, but the
857      Moral can test that feeling and determine if it is morally correct or
858      not (testing it against the standards as he understands them), either
859      obeying or denying it accordingly.  The Amoral can only lump it in
860      with all his other feelings to consider in forming his actions. His
861      actions may be logical progressions toward his ends, but his ends
862      (that is, the things he wants to do) are necessarily arbitrary.
863  
864      NOTE:  By the Amoral, I by no means mean to say the *Immoral*.  The
865             Immoral sees some want of his as conflicting with his idea of
866             moral conduct, yet proceeds to act on it anyway.  The Amoral
867             cannot do so, since he rejects his own (and all other) under-
868             standing of morality, and therefore has nothing with which to
869             examine the motive.  Indeed, the only person who can be
870             immoral is the Moral.
871  
872 More on other things later....
873  
874 Timely quote follows |
875                      \/
876  
877 "Here's a good joke to do during an earthquake:  Straddle a big
878  crack in the earth, and if it opens wider, go, 'Whoa! Whoa!' and    _
879  flail your arms around, as if you're going to fall in."            /#)
880                -Jack Handey, "Deep Thoughts"             n   n   n (#/ 
881                                                         / ~~~ ~~~ \/
882 /*/*/*/*/*/*/* -swob (a Self-Willed Orange Blancmange) /___/____\__\
032=Usr:116 Michael Gray      08/02/89 05:07  Msg:4191 Call:23006  Lines:10
883 L---!----!----!--------------------------------------------!----!----!---R
884      Nemesis:  I whould say that Inisfal is no longer.  The land in time
885 that has sparked so many tales and tellers to life has vanished with all
886 its surroundings when all light, all time, all being was destroyed as
887 the universe that was Inisfal exploded.
888      In the wake of such a monumental event came the birth of
889 BackWater Message System II.                                    -adherent
890      (I suppose you had to be there.)
891 L----!----!----!-------------------------------------------!----!----!---R
892  
033=Usr:370 Lenny Miller      08/02/89 15:13  Msg:4192 Call:23013  Lines:3
893 This is to Mark Derby, If you read this please just leave a message for me is a
894 any one out there
895  
034=Usr:84 Michael Miller j  08/02/89 17:13  Msg:4193 Call:23016  Lines:18
896 &*&*&*&*'s
897 Wouldn't it be nice if somebody donated a hard drive for BWMSII? Then we
898 could have more then two disks online, and perhaps a selection of some of
899 the better archive disks. 
900  
901 Just A Thought.
902  
903 While Innisfall may have died, the fiction has not. Though it has been fairly
904 sparse these last several disks. From what I can see, the creative juices 
905 dried up all over Portland a couple of years ago. Since then things have
906 been sporatic at best.
907  
908 BTW, a good debate. One of the beI've seen!
909  
910 An Astral Dreamer (Who hopes he hasn't scared anybody away by saying things are
911 going well.)
912 &*&*&*&*'s
913  
035=Usr:4 Milchar           08/02/89 23:22  Msg:4194 Call:23025  Lines:8
914 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
915 CM: Okay, I went back over the Online Archives and saw that 8610?? thru
916 8703?? are missing, and of course I don't have disks 97-99.  Trivia fact:
917 Did ya know the Backwater archives take up 10 Meg after compression?
918 ++++++++++++
919 Well, well.  Did I detect a MiG pass by?  I believe I saw you waiting at
920 a bus stop across from the Downtown Hilton the other morning...
921 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
036=Usr:498 Hagbard Celine ,  08/03/89 01:53  Msg:4195 Call:23028  Lines:38
922  
923 {}
924  
925    Dried up indeed! Poo Foo on You!  Surely, there shall be more stories
926 to come, as long as their is a Backwater to recieve them.
927  
928    Whatever happened to impromptu writing?
929  
930    As for the debate towards emotional/logical, I must give the other
931 person (actually, I WISH to give) credit; my instruction in philosophical
932 matters is primarily pratical and garnered from what observations
933 I have made within the limited confines of American Culture.  I think
934 that you will find Humans to be conflicting; I have always told my friends
935 that life is a conflict, and nothing more.  Emotions form both the
936 basis of survival and the need to propetuate (reproduce & propogate without
937 difficulty, ie, manipulate conditions to a limited extent so as to
938 make propogation more favorable), but mankind's limited logic and
939 concrete understanding form another drive within him, yet it is an
940 artificial one (ie, non-instinctive) that can be directed by
941 itself.  When the primal programming of insticts and emotions
942 appear, they are not directly apperent (ie, logical), yet they often
943 present problems when combined with the artificial drives of
944 Ethics, Morality, and Logic.  This is not to say that any of those
945 three should be done away with, I'm simply stating that mankind
946 does what it wishes, but usually without considering the effects.
947 Sure, there could be world peace, no hunger, and better understanding
948 between cultures, but because mankind uses artificial methods of
949 perception (Money, Power, Material Goods, etc.) of his world, you
950 will find that this will not happen.  The concept of property is
951 a twisted one, and you must be careful when tip-toeing through that
952 minefield!
953  
954    Ack! More Mindless Drivel!  Methinks I need to come up with
955 a new story - maybe on the next disk...
956  
957    Hagbard Celine, slowly regaining himself as a human instead of
958                    a "citizen".
959 {}
037=Usr:219 Friar Mossback    08/03/89 08:11  Msg:4196 Call:23032  Lines:40
960 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
961 Hagbard -
962 On Blue Parrot there is currently a contest going about the Borfle Quee.
963 You might try a story out here, get it refined, and then enter it there.
964  
965 Milch-
966 Do you get downtown often?  The place you thought you saw MiG is right next 
967 to my office.  If you get here often, I have been known to spring for lunch
968 on occasion.
969  
970 All-
971 My neighbor suggested that we go ahead and declare war on Lebanon and Iran
972 for their acts of terrorism.  Then we could blow up the countryside and not
973 violate the articles of the Geneva Convention.  
974 What do you think?  His reasoning is that they are all Islamic fanatics 
975 anyway, and therefore are of no real use to the rest of the world, and their
976 greatest goal in life is to die for their god, so it would be helping them
977 out rather than hurting them.
978 Now since I don't believe in death in that sense, I am not sure that he is 
979 wrong.  I am opposed to war, but more through logic than emotion.  But there
980 is a certain logic to helping people get where they want.
981 I notice that congress has given President Bush carte blanche to respond 
982 "in an appropriate manner" to the current crisis.  This morning I heard that
983 Joseph Cicippio had been given a four hour reprieve, which the politicians
984 jumped on as showing that their diplomacy had worked.  
985 What should the US response be?  The former is one extreme, and on the other
986 side I have heard "Well, they were stupid enough to be there, it's their 
987 problem."  Is it time to go back to the days of Teddy Roosevelt?  Will George
988 Bush get really mad?  Will the beaver ever lose that silly grin?
989  
990 AD-
991 Things are going well.  And that usually doesn't cause a mass exodus, but 
992 rather, a cautious enquiry such as "Is it OK if I participate?"  We have seen
993 that time and again.  And the answer is always "Yes."  We have a good group 
994 here, and it keeps changing.  As for a hard drive, I think the two disk
995 system is part of the character of BWMSII, as it was of BWMS.  I liked BWMS
996 a little better, because it was quaint.  When you are old enough to have
997 nostalgic feelings over older systems (and you may be, I have no idea.), then
998 you know you have been around computers toooooooo long!
999 [][][][][][][] Friar, at the bottom, holding the whole disk on his head  [][][]
