LI
FILE ON
MARGIN IS 80 
STATUS: ENTER ONLY
NUMBER OF LINES: 560 
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ******************* REMOVED: 3 AUG 84 **********************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day system operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
6                     PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privately owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is
10 privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all messages which
11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be
12 periodically purged of messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
13 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the
14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the
15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace
16 the line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
17 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
18 ************************************************************
19 
20 to A. User: The reason you got so much flack, was because of the 
21 50 or so lines of 'this is a test'. BWMS has limitted disk space,
22 and that is a waste of that space. The testing itself is not a
23 problem, even I use BWMS for that purpose now and then. As long as 
24 the on line times are held to a minimum, since BWMS is also a
25 very busy system with lots of users. tying the line for hours,
26 and or wasting 50 lines of the disk is not considered to be very
27 polite. To use you own analogy of ham radio, it is in the relm
28 of throwing a dead carrier on a very busy frequency. Sure you
29 can do it, but you are ruining it for others. There are more
30 users out there then just you, so please consider them as well
31 when you make use of any public system. 
32 So, please clean up after yourself, it is considered to be polite
33 to do so. If you don't, then expect to get a lot of flack for
34 making a nusance of yourself. End of lecture.
35 Thank you
36 ************************** CISTOP MIKEY **************************
37 ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
38 Mikey - out of curiosity, how come you didn't leave Drive A on 'til
39 morning?  You condensed it sometime between 12:30 and 3:30; the 80 blank
40 lines probably wouldn't have been totally filled.  Now you have a short
41 file on Drive B.  Oh well.
42 Prometheus Hawthorne - Your entries are getting to be as exciting to read
43 as MiG's.  What new wonders will your stray control characters do to my
44 poor terminal program?  Tell me, if you would--what do YOU see when you use
45 the control-Q's for your internal borders?  All those XON's keep trying to
46 dump my buffer, which makes for interesting happenings on the CRT.
47 It's no major problem (I'm not going to shout vulgarities at you), I can
48 bypass the problem with a few tweaks to my program.  Just curious.
49 The reason you haven't seen me here lately is that I haven't come across anything
50 interesting to upload.  Quizmaster seems slightly more appropriate for the
51 current state of BackWater than my other personnas now, though.
52 It's interesting how much we get from appearances.  Your short experiment with
53 lower case gave me a substantially different impression than your usual
54 upper case.  How shallow I am, huh?
55 ????????????????????????????? QUIZMASTER ?????????????????????????????????
56 pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
57    Deborah -- nice to hear from you again.  Sorry, I missed the concert
58 in the park... I would have liked to have been able to attend.  (Grammarians!
59 was that a conditional subjunctive??)  I am not presently a member of any
60 pipe and drum band ... if time were to permit I would consider joining
61 one.  The problem that I now face is that the jobs required overflow the
62 time available to accomplish them.  I am now learning Smalltalk-80 on the
63 new Tektronix AI machine, as well as my way around the operating system and
64 other pieces of it.  (It's a super little machine, by the way.  I'd really
65 like to see a bbs on one -- one megabyte of RAM and a 20mb hard disk give
66 a lot of room to play!)  After Xmas, I may have some time available to 
67 devote to other things.
68 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
69    Bowing to the lovely lady, the piper (somewhat clumsily, since the 
70 beast still has no repeat function on the keys) leaped aboard his winged
71 steed to be carried off into a misty and still unexplored realm.
72 (Yes, this has come to you off a Pegasus -- AKA Tektronix 4404 )
73 pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
74 {  ^+/* ---------------- ^+/* ---------------- */+^ ---------------- */+^   }
75 A forum, such as this one, is no more or no less than the sum of the opinions
76 and expressions entered. The person operating the system formulates the
77 general boundaries and sets the tone. In the case of the Backwater Inn, Cistop
78 Mikey provides quite a vast latitude. All of this is obvious. Given such a
79 golden opportunity, it would seem one should feel an obligation to make the
80 best of it. Very few other places can people exchange diverse ideas and      
81 debate issues, with complete impunity. Perhaps one of the best self tests of
82 an entry is to ask "Is that something I'd like to read here?". Consideration
83 for others and a little thought before 'shootis from the lip' is bound to
84 improve the content and quality.
85   
86 Laissez-faire - The issue being addressed was in relation to techniques of
87    understanding rather than acquisition of power. That is indeed another
88    matter. Knowledge can certainly be used as power but that is perhaps one
89    of the very minor uses. Someone with *real* strength probably finds little
90    need to exercise power. Techniques of interaction which result in other
91    than sum-zero games usually produce more human oriented situations. You
92    appear to be a person who has given a great deal of consideration to
93    the process of understanding. Some say that the answer is contained in
94    the question one asks. If that is *true*, it would seen that the focus of
95    attention should be on the questions rather than on the answers!
96 {  ^+/* --------------- The Mesolithic Mathematician --------------- */+^   }
97 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?o
98 To the person commenting on the difference between my spelling and my hardware.
99 do you not realise the fact that a homebrew modem which throws random control letters and such
100 is a pain to work with? rather then spend a half hour editing my stuff every day I leave the 
101 line open for others to use. I might mention that you are about 2.5 times older then I am and
102 have had time to learn the proper spellings for words which you use, I usualy communicate by 
103 talking with people, not typing to them.
104 A.User:in the course of building my system I used BW quite frequently, but never left 50+ lines 
105 of garbage, niether has Prometheus in testing his new lower case mods.
106 Quizmaster:I too was shocked at the lower case difference, perhaps I am also shallow in my
107 ways. Who has the Duophone and when do I get my chance at it? or, shudder, does it WORK?
108 lets see, x-on dumps buffer so  should open it.
109 			MiG
110 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/
111 *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+     *+*+*+*+*+*+*+
112 To all the people of this primitive planet-Earth, I salute
113 you, for your efforts in the Olympic Games!
114 *+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+
115 YEA QUIZMASTER YOU ARE RELY SHALOW. JUST BECUASE SOME OF
116 US DONT HAVE LOWER CASE MODIFICATONS, YOU MAKE FUN OF US.
117 WHY ARE YOU SUCH A JERK. CANT YOU HAVE PATIENTS FOR OTHERS
118 PROBLEMS. IF YOU SPENT MORE TIME TAKING CARE OF YOUR OWN
119 BUSSINESS, AND LESS TIME WORRYING ABOUT TOHERS, THINGS
120 WOULD BE ALOT BETTER. BY THE WAY YOU'RE QUIZES ARE DUMM.
121 you sure are long winded, sysop!
122 
123 This is Deloy Graham from Beaverton High School.  Sue me.
124 here
125 Now is the time for all good me, etc.
126 Another case of raving twitius delecti
127 ..........................................................................
128 Cistop Mikey,
129          All very true, but for one thing. The long streams of 'THIS IS A TEST'
130 were NOT done by me. I had 3 short messages in three seperate sessions that
131 accounted for <> 30 lines. At any given time I wasn't on the board for more
132 then 5-10 minutes per session. I definitely believe in short online times
133 with a mininum of wasted space. I do not like being called for something 
134 someone else did.
135                                      A. User
136 ...........................................................................
137 ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
138 I seem to have raised a few hackles.  Isn't it fun!
139 MiG - the Duophone has been uncooperative, and so is now inhabiting that
140 darker corner of my closet reserved for obnoxious and/or rejected hardware.
141 Since it is doing me no good there, you are more than welcome to try
142 your persuasive skills on it.
143 ????????????????????????????????? QUIZMASTER ????????????????????????????????
144 Trivia: the current issue of Scientific American is devoted to Software,
145 including an article by Nichlaus Wirth.  For those of you who think you
146 know programming.
147 And for those of you who have wondered if you are really as smart as you
148 think you are, here's your chance to find out.
149 MENSA self-tests are available for $8 each from Brewster Gillett,
150 PO Box 3707, Portland OR 97208.  Checks payable to    Oregon Mensa.
151 Are YOU in the top 2% of the population?  If your CEEB or SAT is 1300 or
152 better, you are.  Otherwise, take the test and see.
153 ***************************************************************
154 TO A. USER: SINCE THE 50+ TEST LINES WERE SIGNED BY A. USER, I MADE
155 THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION THAT IT WAS YOUR PARTICULAR INPUT. IF IT WASN'T
156 YOU, THEN THERE OBVIOUSLY IS ANOTHER A. USER OUT THERE. HOWEVER, EITHER
157 WAY, THE PREVIOUS LECTURE STILL HOLDS TO ALL. PLEASE DON'T WASTE SPACE.
158 THANK YOU.
159 ********************* CISTOP MIKEY ********************************
160 (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
161 Ah yes, the ol' Mensa tests again. Yes, you too can prove that you
162 are one of the top 2% in the country that can get high scores on
163 a Mensa test. Other then that they don't really prove a whole lot.
164 Certainly not that you are 'smarter' then the other guy, (unless
165 you decide to measure smartness as being able to get high scores on
166 the test.) I have seen high scorers who I wouldn't trust to figure
167 out how to unscrew a lid, while at the same time, I have seen average
168 type scorers who could design a better lid to unscrew. There is far
169 more to life then knowing the answers to a bunch of neat logical 
170 questions. Of course the Mensa people don't particularly feel this
171 way since they have a vested interest in trumpet blowing.
172 (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) George A. (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
173 .........................................................................
174 Actually the etiquette required on this and other bulletin boards might
175 be an interesting topic for discussion. Anyone care to speculate on the
176 mos that may develop as our culture uses electronic augmentation more and
177 more? Will we become more physically isolated and less inclined to do
178 anything about it ( a la 'The Machine Stops')?
179 
180                                            A. User
181 ..........................................................................
182 Graham: You are a 'high'school student? Gee, I never would have guessed!. A USER: OK OK ENOUGH ENOUGH
183 let it pass. OK? You use up more line space rapping about using line space than you used line space.
184 Sheesh. George A.: right on pal. Mensans are nothing but a bunch of pompous arrogant know-it-all's. 
185 And I'm not saying that just because I failed the tst, either. I'ts true. Just because I failed does
186 not mean I'm bitter or anything. They really are all snobs. I could have passed, but I was tired when I 
187 took the test, and besides that I have hypoglycemia which makes it hard for me to concentrate---.
188 Quizmaster: Stop picking on my pal Migguy, or I'll turn you into a toad. (Which species do you prefer?).(yukyuk)
189 @*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@
190 Would some kind soul that has a valid password on Whispering Pines please
191 transfer a message for me?
192 
193 To: Dave Gerton
194     The information that you are looking for can be found in very ease to
195     understand form in two books by Don Lancaster. These are 'The Micro
196     Cookbooks I & II'. They both have a ton of good information on 6502
197     ML and I certianly recommend them to anyone that is going into ML &
198     hardware interface.
199                                        C. Payton
200 
201 I do not have a valid password & I need someone to get the message to Dave.
202                                        Thanks,
203                                         CP
204 @*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@
205 Mig: Forgive me but I altered your msg slightly. ^S halts the display
206 on this furshlugginer terminal (luckily there were some ^Q s a bit later)
207 ________________________________________________________________________________
208 <+|+>  {211}  08310029
209 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/blather/blather? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/
210 ARG! those X-OFF's were for quizmaster! oh well, sorry if they coused any trouble.
211 Cletus!! How goes the programming at GP?
212 			MiG
213 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? / /? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/ ? ?/ /? ?Rrh567
214 
215 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
216 
217   From Prometheus:The Promethean
218 
219   Good Morning, EveryOne.
220   Quizmaster is first; I don't wish for you to haTweak' your terminal. Just give me another invisible character
221 and I will then switch.
222   The Control Q's are for a long or short delay; Depending on how confusing I'm feeling that day...
223   I did not understand from your message how your opinion had changed about me since the first lower case exiriments.
224   Mayhaps, for the better?
225 
226   MENSA DETRACTORS; I KNOW TWO OR SO MENSA MEMBERS AND THEY ARE NOT JERKS. IN FACT I ADMIRE ALL THE MENSA MEMBERS I KNOW.
227   ABOUT MENSA ITSELF; EVERY ONE THAT I'VE TALKED TO ABOUT IT HAS AGREED THAT A CLUB THAT IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE FOUNDED ON THE
228 SUPERIORITY (ESP. INTELLECTUALLY ) OF IT'S MEMBERS IS GOING TO BE RATHER NARCISSISTIC TO SAY THE LEAST.
229                                
230   A. USER DETRACTORS; FROM WHAT I REMEMBER OF A. USER'S LATEST FULL MESSAGES THEY WERE BETTER AND MORE INTERESTING THAN WHAT
231 I'VE SEEN OF YOURS.
232                                
233   IGNORED PORSFIS ATTENDEE; DID YOU GO TO THE LEFT FRONT CORNER OF THE ROOM AS YOU COME IN? IF SO THEN MIG SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN
234 AT LEAST A BOTTLE FROM YOU.
235   HE HAS A TENDENCY TO DO THAT, YOU KNOW...
236                                
237                                
238   ARCHIVISTS NEXT; HOW MUCH OF WHAT DO I BRING TO PORSFIS? I NEED TO KNOW SOON, SO I CAN GET WHATEVER IT IS I AM SUPPOSED TO
239 BRING.
240                                
241   I THINK I'LL GO WAKE EVERYONE BY SINGING IN THE SHOWER NOW.
242                                
243   PROMETHEUS HAWTHORNE  SD8408.3
244   FROM THE DENTHIER... MT0521.0
245 
246 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
247 Time for my ritual apology for tthis message; I am sorry for the alternating UPPER/lower case but I had some difficultie as I
248 
249 got closer to the end. Prometheus
250 
251 ##########################################################################################################################
252      MANY PEOPLE ASSOCIATE SURVIVAL WITH THE ABILITY TO FIND FOOD AND WATER
253 . THESE,OF CORSE ARE ESSENTIAL TO SUSTAIN LIFE.
254 
255                          RICHARD GRAVES
256 ############################################################################
257 Rather a pointless endeavor, no?
258 "#!$!"#*!$!"#!$!danny darms"#!!$"#!$
259 
260 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^
261 Archivers - I am interested in making a CPM copy.  I have a copy
262             of RDCPM on 8" disks.  (Incidentally, I have access
263             to, not ownership of, 3 Gazelles.)  How many disks
264             will it take ?  How much do I pay ?  To whom ?
265 
266 M.M. - True power, as I see it, is the power to know your own 
267        abilities.  We are not limiited by anything other than our
268        own minds.  If we can convince ourselves that we have the
269        right and responsibility to use our minds for whatever
270        purpose that would further the condition of man as a whole,
271        we can.  The power must not be used in a negative manner,
272        however, as that unleashes the power of the oppressed in
273        equal measure.  (e.g. Afghanistan under the Russians.)
274        (I am curious, what is your profession ?  If you do not 
275        want to keep it a secret, I would like to know.)
276 
277 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$   Laissez-faire   $^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^
278 
279 gggggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzllllllllyyyyyyyy
280 Does anybody have docs to 'Cranston Manor' or 'Ulysses and the Golden Fleece'?
281 If so I would really appreciate it if I could have them.  Just leave them on
282 the system.  I don't think anyone would mind because they would only take up the
283 space of one of the Ninja's stories(no offence intended just an example).
284 ggrriizzzzllyy
285 The Grizzly carefully entered his den.  Something didn't smell right.  He 
286 went into the large sleeping area expecting the unexpected. The unexpected was
287 just what he found.  In the corner covered with blood stained blankets was what
288 was left of a small framed man dressed in hiking gear.  There was apparent sign
289 of a struggle.  The Grizlies only intentions now were to get the mess cleaned
290 up and find the other intruder.  In the other room he saw the shadow of another
291 man.  This man was much bigger and was clearly injured.  Without much thought
292 The Grizzly raced into the other room only to find himself staring down the
293 barrel of a gun.
294 gggggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzlllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyy
295 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
296                                     ddjjbb
297 
298 Did anybody Know that Hitlers grandmother was a jew?
299 Boy, talking about bad empresions!
300 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
301 Prometheus: I don't think you can AFFORD the archives! Aside from about
302 $5 to cover time & trouble in making the copies, you also have to
303 supply enough disks for your copy. It currently looks like about
304 50 Model III disks, so I'd guess about 55-60 CoCo disks! 
305 Mig: I did leave ONE XOFF in the msg....
306 _____________________________________Leonard__________________________________
307 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^
308 But please!!! How many 8" CPM disks ?
309 ^$^$^$^$^$^$^$   Laz   $^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^$^
310 
311 %#_%*!#_)*%!_#)*%_(%+_(%+_!(+%#_)*%_)#*%@#)_*@#_)*%@)_#*%@)_%%!)_*%_)@*_)@#*%
312 Laz: After next Thursday, you will need 36 8" disks. Your cost will be $24.
313      If you wish to come to the next PCS meeting (check CBBS PCS for details)
314      you can meet a few of the other archivers there. The 8 inchers go back
315      to Aaron, so you will have to arrange getting the disks from him.
316 Leonard: I must talk to you about REAL breaks on a Model 100 used to talk
317          to a Univac in Denver Co. Please give me a call when you can.
318 Prom. : If you want hard copy, don't hold your breath. Arrangements need to
319         be made with Alex for getting hard copies of the archives. The cost
320         would most likely be somewhere around $20. I don't know if any
321         additional money will be required for those who want hardcopy. I will
322         keep you posted as progress is made.
323 Quizmaster : Your such a controversial fellow. Maybe you would mellow a bit
324              if you had to spend hours a day working on a Commode 64. I think
325              I am being punished for some unknown crime. Otherwise why should
326              I be put through such an ordeal?
327 )%#@*)_%*@%*)_*^)_@*^)_@*)^_*@#) L'homme sans parity *%#@*_%@)_%#*_)%@_#)%@)#
328 @*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@**@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@@*
329 MiG-
330       Give me a hint.
331                           CP
332 @*@*@*@*@*@*@*@**@*@@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@
333 ARCHIVISTS; I CAN'T HANDLE DISKS! IT JUST CAN'T BE DONE ON A DISKLESS SYSTEM! I
334 WON'T HOLD MY BREATH BUT I AM INTERESTED IN ARCHIVES. I WILL WAIT UNTIL A PRINT
335 -ER IS AVAILABLE, UNTIL THEN I WILL GO SIT IN A CORNER AND ROT OR SOMETHING.
336     PROMETHEUS HAWTHORNE 1984
337 
338 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/blather/blather/? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/
339 CP:A hint?!? Oh, well I can't think of any that would not give me away. But I
340 can remember people doing this to me so I will give a few.
341 1)R.S. with A.R. presiding.
342 2)A tree structured BBS system.
343 Enough?
344 			MiG
345 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/blather/blather/? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?/
346 1234567890<>ddnm,/>><><>>;;;;;.,/;+++\\\***^^^^/ghhg/gihytuy7ttfttgyuyyyuii
347 THIS IS A GOVERNMENT COMPUTER. WE FOUND OUT THAT YOU HAVE BENE USING THIS 
348 SYSTEM FOR ILLEGAL DROG SMUGELING.WE WILL BE SENDING GOVERNMENT AGENTS TO 
349 YOUR HOUSE TO ARREST YOU! BYE HAVE A NICE DAY
350   
351 Drog???
352 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>>
353 Migguy- how long one has lived has little to do with their ability to speal
354 korrektlee. No excuse, Mig! (hyuck hyuck)
355 Dreamyoucher: If you are out there, please call Lysias.  Unknownguy.
356 COLOECO VISION FOR SALE
357 PLUS FIVE CARTRIDGES-ZAXXON,DONKEY KONG,DONKEY KONG JR
358 VENTURE ANF TURBO WITH STEERING WHEEL-$200.00 OR BEST OFFER (WILLING TO BAR
359 GAIN. CONTACT JASON AT 503-285-xxxx.
360           THANKS, AND PLEASE TELL HIM WHERE YOU SAW THIS ADD.
361 
362 
363 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
364 I'm enjoying the exchange between Laissez-faire and the Mesolithic Mathemeti-
365 cian. It's literate and gentlemanly and they are discussing, not arguing.
366 M.M.--Your remark about those with real strength not needing to exercise
367 power reminded me of this quote on a friend's answering machine. "In complete
368 gentleness there is great strength.  In complete strength there is great
369 gentleness."  Boy, it sounds even better when it's not mixed in with "Have a
370 nice day," and "At the sound of the beep...."
371 Laz--The comment about power being used in a negative manner unleashing the
372 power of the oppressed is excellent. Its current exemplar for me is Poland.
373 The simple stolid part of Polish character that is the germ of cloddish
374 ethnic jokes is also the quality that resists the most sophisticated propa-
375 ganda.  Again the issue of knowledge and power.  Polish jokes notwithstanding,
376 Poles have a romantic attachment to the intellect.  Jan Paderewski, the pianist
377 and composer was elected prime minister of Poland primarily, it is said,
378 because the people were grateful for his music in the dark days of WWI.  How
379 much nicer than electing military heroes.  How much more effective for har-
380 nessing intellect to the state than the soviet method.
381 
382 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ unknown quantity  ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
383 P.S. L'Homme---No need to look for unknown crimes.  Your known offenses
384 will probably suffice.  The god of computer heaven (that's like dog
385 heaven where they tell you your pets go when you're little and your 
386 dog gets run over and you feel miseable and helplessand are too dumb
387 yet to ask shy dogs don't get to go to REAL heaven) the god of computer
388 heaven has heard what you've said about Commodore 64 and even apples
389 (not to be confused with eve 'n apples) and is making sure that your life
390 is going to be one long dog heaven on earth. Hah.
391     U.Q.
392 @*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@
393 MiG-
394     OK, but the reference to GP is what is confusing .... but wait ...
395 maybe ....
396                                        CP
397 @*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@**@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*@*
398 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
399 
400 A MAGI, OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE SEVEN, MAKES AN OBSCENE GESTURE AT YOU AND
401 SUGGESTS AN ALTERNATE PLACE TO PARK YOUR DAZZLINGLY PINK WHEELBARROW!
402 YOUR ARE NOT PLEASED !!!!!
403 
404 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
405 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
406 (I'm carmming in meassages before leaving for the weekend.  The other good
407 topic was the MENSA qualifications.  The purpose of using the SAT scores
408 is supposed to be that although the SAT is an achievement (acquired know-
409 ledge and skills)test, you would need a certain amount of intelligence
410 (the capacity measured by INTELLIGENCE test) to get a certain score. (The
411 SAT people are cautious about making such assertions because they don't
412 want to be drawn into the race-intelligence fray.  They only say there are
413 correlations.)   Anyway, you could have plenty of intelligence and fall
414 short on the SAT because you lack academic skills (like MiG). So MENSA
415 accepts lots of other proof & puts out brain teasers and puzzles to test you.
416 There's a set in this mont's GAMES (the magazine for people who really should
417 be doing something more constructive with their time.)
418 But then last term my friend used me as a guinea pig for a course in how to
419 give INTELLIGENCE tests and the last question on the test was "Who wrote
420 Faust?"  Although I don't remember exactly how I learned the answer (Goethe)
421 I'm fairly certain it wasn't innate knowledge.  So how does this differ
422 from an achievement test?  And how come I do so much better on tests than I
423 do in real life?  As my friend Gray(not MiG) once mournfully remarked as he
424 surveyed his domicile, a rented garage, "Intelligence isn't necessarily a
425 survival trait."
426 ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Unknown QuantityZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
427 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
428 This is for the one or two of you who haven't seen it yet:
429 	An Engineer is a man who knows a great deal about very little and
430 goes along learning more and more about less and less until he knows
431 practically everything about nothing.
432 	A salesman on the other hand is a man who knows very little about many
433 things and keeps learning less and less about more and more until he knows
434 nothing about everything.
435 	A superintendent starts out knowing everything about everything but
436 ends up knowing nothing about anything due to his association with
437 engineers and salesmen.
438 
439 	Re: intelligence - intelligence per se is worthless.  It's what you
440 do with it that counts.  Most people I know have gone farther with their
441 average IQs than I have with my exalted 99%ile.  It's great for taking tests
442 (I rarely suffer from test anxiety), but does little to prepare one for 
443 interaction with other human beings.  In fact, it sometimes tends to be
444 a detriment.  Unfortunately, it is rare that a person can get to a goal by
445 test alone.  Usually one needs to deal with other people.  That's when the
446 lack of social skills (etc.) becomes apparent.
447 	oops, gotta go... to be continued...
448 ??????????????????????????????? QUIZMASTER ????????????????????????????????
449 <+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>
450 ELRIC,
451           WEAR ARE YOU?
452                       ASP
453 <+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+<+>+
454 	The apprentice sighed, ANOTHER new plant! He got up from where he had been
455 weeding and trudged back to the cottage to find it in the lore books.
456 	Weeding the garden would not be so bad if there were not so MANY different
457 herbs. If he pulled just ONE plant that BELONGED in the garden...
458 ..................................the apprentice................................
459 	Bard strode into the room. Seeing the piper he called, "Well met old friend!"
460 "I've been out gathering new songs"
461 	He ordered a drink and sat for a while talking with piper and other old friends.
462 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
463 	Maids of The Dales (words: Anne Wilson, tune: Roddy McCorley)
464 Oh see the maids in bridal garb
465 Who ride with faces wan.
466 From castle and from Holder's hall
467 Together, twelve and one.
468 They ride into a strange new life
469 But no hope, no hope have they.
470 For the maids of the Dales go to keep the pact
471 With the Were Riders today.
472 
473 At the time of the war against Alizon
474 A bargain there was made
475 If the Dalesmen would find thirteen brides
476 They'd gain the Riders' aid.
477 Now the war is won, the year has turned
478 And their word they've not betrayed.
479 For the maids of the Dales go to keep the pact
480 With the Were Riders today.
481 
482 There is never a one of all the maids
483 More bravely rides today
484 Than she whose hair is raven-dark
485 Who was born so far away.
486 True to her heart, true to her heart
487 She chose the unknown way --
488 Gillan rides with the maids to keep the pact
489 With the Were Riders today.
490 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
491 You may have read an account of the events in High Halleck that inspired this 
492 song? "The Year of the Unicorn" by Andre Norton?
493 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BARD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
494 I have just upgraded to 1200 baud and need to sell my 300
495 baud Hayes Smartmodem. It is the external model and needs a cable to 
496 hook it into your system. I've had it for about 1 year and haven't
497 had a lick of trouble. Price is $150. Leave a message here or
498 on CBBS. Thanks, John Snell.
499 <+|+>  {521}  09011405
500 *************************************************************
501 Intellegence. Just what IS intellegence? Can we measure it with tests?
502 Can it be learned? Of course we all like to think we are intellegent,
503 and in fact for self approval we must feel that we are sufficiently
504 intellegent to live our everday lives. But, what of this superior
505 intellegence being claimed? Does it make these people better than you?
506 Well, that all depends on how you want to view it. If you think they
507 are better then you, then they are. If you don't then they aren't. It
508 is as simple as that. Everyone likes to feel that they are somehow
509 important or better then someone else, and this feeling can be derived
510 from many different sources. For some, the feeling that they are more
511 intellegent then everyone else by using tests and such is how they
512 obtain the gratifying feeling. While for others, the ability to be able
513 to walk through downtown Portland at 2AM unscathed is a much more 
514 important aspect to life. (intellegence doesn't do you much good
515 with a knife in your gut.) I doubt that the question will ever be
516 properly answered, simply because of the near impposibilty to measure
517 such a thing as intellegence. No matter how you try to test it, there
518 is going to be improper aspects involved for the individual being
519 tested. I haven't seen the MENSA test that was indicated above, but
520 I have seen a similar test. It consisted largely of a test involving
521 pattern recognition. (I.E. A picture of four balls and a cube; which
522 one doesn't belong) While that may be OK for someone good at pattern
523 recognition, what about someone who has not developed that particular
524 talent? Pattern tests are popular as they supposedly indicate your
525 ability to learn, and thus your IQ. The problem is that they don't
526 account for the ability or non-ability to perform pattern analysis, or
527 worse use patterns that are incomprehensible to the individual. (I.E.
528 in the sequence 18,5,23,147,   ,9 what is the missing number.) Your
529 assuming the individual has an understanding of math and number theory
530 which is a learned concept. Maybe we should test on survivablity as
531 was suggested earlier? OK, your put naked on an alien space craft
532 plumeting out of control towards the Earth. Save yourself. Or, you are
533 thrown naked in the middle of the Sahara desert with out food water 
534 or shelter. Save yourself. Or, your are thrown naked on a sidewalk
535 on west burnside at 2AM. Save yourself? (sorry, couldn't help it.)
536 I have no idea what my IQ is as determined by the current IQ tests.
537 Not because I fear to take the tests that it might show me to be an
538 idiot, but rather simply because I don't care. A good IQ score won't
539 buy you a cup of coffee. For my own satisfaction I do know that I have
540 above average intellegence in my specific chosen profession (as
541 determined by the fact that I was in the top 10% of my class) but
542 that is only useful in that profession. In school I got a B- average
543 not because I wasn't as smart as others, but rather because I wanted
544 to learn. So I took harder courses with the full realization that it
545 would pull my scores down. I feel that I gained much more as a result.
546 ********************** CISTOP MIKEY *********************************
547 What's the big deal about walking through downtown at 2 AM? I've done it
548 hundreds of times. Literally hundreds, having lived there for 8 years.
549 Upload test. Sending one line.
550 1 Test line one.Short.
551 
552 Sending long line now.
553 2 Test line two.Long. Four years and some months ago our mentors in Austin broug
554 try next(med) line.2. Line three. Medium. Whether such a CPU so concieved and so
555 1 Test line one.Short.
556 nu y
557 
558 off
559 
560 upload test, end

>