
The following message was delivered at Grace Community Church in Panorama 
City, California, By John MacArthur Jr.  It was transcribed from the tape,
GC 90-57, titled "Charismatic Chaos" Part 6.  A copy of the tape can be 
obtained by writing, Word of Grace, P.O. Box 4000, Panorama City, CA 91412.

I have made every effort to ensure that an accurate transcription of the 
original tape was made.  Please note that at times sentence structure may 
appear to vary from accepted English conventions.  This is due primarily to 
the techniques involved in preaching and the obvious choices I had to make in 
placing the correct punctuation in the article.

It is my intent and prayer that the Holy Spirit will use this transcription 
of the sermon, "Charismatic Chaos" Part 6, to strengthen and encourage the 
true Church of Jesus Christ.



                         Charismatic Chaos - Part 6

                              "The Third Wave"
                                     by
                               John MacArthur



It is a somewhat difficult task that falls to me this evening, to discuss 
with you, in the series on "Charismatic Chaos," some of the matters with 
regard to a movement known as the "The Third Wave."  I cannot, by any means, 
consider all of the issues, nor can I speak of all those who represent that 
movement.  But I do want to give you some perspective so that you can be 
alert and aware in regard to what is happening.

Of all of the elements of the Charismatic movement, that are contemporary to 
us today, this one is getting the most press.  Of all the questions that are 
asked to me by people who write and call with regard to issues facing us in 
the Charismatic movement, this is the most commonly discussed one.  The main 
figure in what is known as the "Third Wave" is a man by the name of John 
Wimber who is pastor of the Vineyard Christian Fellowship in Anaheim.  He is 
the major figure in this movement that has come to be known as the "Third 
Wave of the Holy Spirit."  It is sometimes called the "Signs and Wonders" 
movement.  And this latest Charismatic tide seems to have swept across the 
globe in the last decade.  It is literally everywhere in the English speaking 
parts of the world.  

The term the "Third Wave" was coined by C. Peter Wagner who is a Missions 
professor at Fuller Seminary and the author of several books on church 
growth.  He is really the leading proponent of the Third Wave philosophy and 
methodology.  According to Wagner, he said, "The First Wave was the 
Pentecostal Movement, the Second Wave was the Charismatic Movement, and now 
the Third Wave is joining them."  And by that he means an inundating wave of 
the power of the Holy Spirit manifesting itself in visible ways.  And while 
acknowledging the Third Wave's spiritual ancestry, that is, that it is the 
third of those three, Wagner nonetheless rejects the label "Charismatic and 
Pentecostal."  In fact, most of the people in the Third Wave don't want to be 
identified in that way.  Wagner says, 

      The Third Wave is a new moving of the Holy Spirit among 
      evangelicals who for one reason or another have chosen not to 
      identify with either the Pentecostals or the Charismatics.  Its 
      roots go back a little further but I see it as mainly a movement 
      beginning in the 1980's and gathering momentum through the 
      closing years of the 20th century.  I see the Third Wave as 
      distinct from, but at the same time, very similar to the first 
      and second waves.  They have to be similar because it is the 
      same Spirit of God who is doing the work.  The major variation 
      comes in the understanding of the meaning of "Baptism in the 
      Holy Spirit" and the role of tongues in authenticating this.  I 
      myself, for example, would rather not have people call me a 
      Charismatic, I do not consider myself a Charismatic, I am simply 
      an Evangelical Congregationalist who is open to the Holy Spirit 
      working through me and my church in any way He chooses.

He refuses the label "Charismatic," not primarily because of any doctrinal 
distinction, but primarily because of the stigma attached to the name.  It's 
important for me to mention that to you because if you talk to someone in the 
Third Wave they might endeavor to distance themselves from classic 
Pentecostalism or more contemporary Charismaticism, but the fact is that they 
are basically the Third Wave by their own admission of the very same kind of 
theology.  It is accurate then to see the Third Wave as part of the whole 
Charismatic movement as we know it.  While it is true that many who identify 
with the Third Wave will avoid using the term "Charismatic" and they'll even 
avoid using Charismatic jargon when writing or speaking about Spirit Baptism 
or other issues.  Basically, the theology is the same.  The terminology may 
change; the theology is for all intents and purposes identical.  Most Third 
Wave teaching and preaching that I have listened to, that I have read, echoes 
standard Charismatic theology, and therefore in evaluating the Third Wave, we 
would assume that it is safe to say that the other issues that we have been 
discussing, that we find unbiblical in the Charismatic movement, are 
generally true of this movement as well, although there may be some 
individuals in the movement who would vary from that.  

So at its very core it is an element of the Charismatic movement.  At its 
core is an obsession with sensational experiences, a preoccupation with the 
"Charismata"  that is, tongues, healings, prophecies, words of knowledge, 
visions, and ecstatic experiences, and that is, of course, where we find the 
indisputable link between the Third Wave and the Charismatic and Pentecostal  
movements.  In all three movements there is a major absorption with these 
supernatural, sensational kind of power encounters or power displays as they 
like to call them.  They de-emphasize what you and I would know as the 
traditional means of spiritual growth: prayer, Bible study, the teaching of 
the Word, and the fellowship of other believers.  They don't intend to do 
that and they wouldn't do that in statement or even in print.  But because of 
the very surpassing emphasis on the sensational experiences, those matters 
tend to get pushed significantly, if not all together, into the background.  
Pentecostals, Charismatics, and Third Wavers, all will affirm that any 
Christian who is not experiencing some supernatural events, some supernatural 
giftedness, some kinds of healings, some kinds of prophecies, words of 
knowledge, or manifestations of the Spirit of God, in visible tangible ways, 
is really stuck at a low level of spiritual progress; is denying the full 
power of God and denying himself the blessing of God.

Now, while those in the Third Wave would like to distance themselves from the 
first and second wave, because of its excesses.  The truth of the matter is, 
the third wave has not managed to avoid any of the excesses that are 
characteristic of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.  In fact, there 
are some in the Charismatic movement who want to distance themselves from the 
Third Wavers because they feel that they go to excesses that even those 
Charismatics wouldn't go to.  

A visit, for example, to the Vineyard, would reveal to you all the commotion 
of many people speaking in tongues at the same time.  It would reveal to you 
intense kind of emotional experiences going on where people were falling on 
the floor and laying in prone positions for as long as an hour, some people 
with their limbs extended.  It would reveal to you people giving multiple 
prophecies, some of them rather bizarre, and some of them with poor grammar, 
and yet claiming they come from the Lord.  There would be likely an 
experience in which they would clear the floor of chairs and they would be 
dancing around in a completely liberated fashion in any form that they would 
choose to do that, with people again perhaps falling over, climbing on 
chairs, dancing on the top of chairs, and doing all the things that once were 
associated with what we used to call, "Holy Rollers."  In fact, Chuck Smith, 
pastor of Calvary Chapel in Costa Mesa, told one researcher, "John Wimber has 
absorbed every abhorrent teaching developed by the Pentecostals into his 
teaching."  

Now, all I want you to understand is that the Third Wave people very often 
want to see themselves as mainline evangelical.  They want to distance 
themselves from the Pentecostal, Charismatic excesses, and yet it seems to be 
true that the excesses that occurred in both the Pentecostal and Charismatic 
movements are very characteristic of the Third Wave as well.  What makes them 
a bit different is that they can line up some teachers and leaders that 
appear to have more academic credentials than has been true in the 
Charismatic and Pentecostal movement.  That may mean, that in the future, 
there will be some correctives that will come to some of those excesses, 
which as of yet has not taken place.  But despite all of their claims to the 
contrary, Third Wave apologists have had astonishing success in selling their 
movement as a non-Charismatic phenomena.  Unsuspecting churches, and I think 
unsuspecting denominations have opened their doors and their pulpits to Third 
Wave teachers, I think because of their academic credentials and because they 
claim not to be in the line of the Charismatics, but in fact, they are.

If you look very closely at the Third Wave you will see in it the very same 
kind of things you see typically in the Charismatic movement.  And so I want 
to do a little bit closer inspection, and as I said we can't by any means 
exhaust this in the next half hour or so as we examine it, but I will try to 
put you in touch with some of the issues that need to be addressed in a much 
more comprehensive way than I'll be able to do tonight.  But I hope that I 
can give you enough information to set you in the right direction.  

I want to just consider maybe four of the promises that the Third Wave makes 
that need to be inspected rather carefully.  The first promise they make is 
that they are experiencing supernatural Signs and Wonders, and that these 
Signs and Wonders come at a rather proliferated rate.  That is to say they 
are not abnormal, they are not uncommon, they are not few and far between, 
but rather they are normal, common, and very often come in a flurry.  They 
believe that fantastic Signs and Wonders demonstrate the genuineness of their 
movement.  The fact is that we cannot turn our back on it because 
supernatural things are happening all the time.  Miraculous phenomena is at 
the very heart of the Third Wave credo and experience.  

Third Wave people are persuaded they are having miracles, they are having 
visions, they are speaking in tongues, giving prophecies, predicting the 
future, reading peoples minds (that is, they can stand up in a meeting and 
tell you your home address, your mother's maiden name, your father's mother's 
maiden name), and all of those kinds of things that we have always associated 
with people like the "Amazing Crescan" (sp.) who purvey a certain kind of 
magic, a certain kind of con art or whatever you want to call it.  But they 
are into these very same kind of things.  In fact, it was interesting to me 
that one of their leaders said that the key to his really "buying into" and 
believing this whole thing was when one of their prophets stood up and told 
him, and told the whole audience, his mother's maiden name and the true first 
name of his father who was only known by a nickname.  

And so they believe that these kind of things are happening, that there are 
healings; that there are resurrections from the dead, and they frankly view 
Christianity without those things as impotent and adulterated by the western 
materialistic mindset.  And [they believe that] unless we can escape the 
western materialistic mindset and catapult ourselves into the Third World 
paradigm, and begin to think in terms of mystical phenomena, we are going to 
be locked into a very shallow kind of Christianity.  Signs and Wonders also 
would be the key, they believe, to Third Wave evangelism.  Third Wavers say 
that unbelievers must experience the miraculous in order to be brought to 
full faith.  Merely preaching the gospel message, they believe, will never 
reach the world for Christ.

One of their leaders has said, "That we cannot evangelize the world with the 
simple gospel, apart from Signs and Wonders."  This, in spite of the fact, 
that Paul, in Romans 1, says that the simple gospel is the power of God unto 
salvation to everyone who believes.  But merely preaching the gospel, they 
believe, isn't going to do it, it'll never reach the world for Christ.  Most 
people will not believe without seeing miracles, they say, and those who do 
will be inadequately converted, and therefore stunted in their spiritual 
growth.  John Wimber, himself, cites Elijah's confrontation with the prophets 
of Baal on Mount Carmel, as a classic example of power encounter, where the 
power of God vanquishes the power of evil.  

Similar Signs and Wonders, say third wave gurus are the chief means we will 
be using to spread the gospel.  And so what they are doing is traveling all 
over the world endeavoring to teach the Church how to do Signs and Wonders.  
And you will hear them openly confess, even the leaders at the highest level 
and those that are kind of developing into their next generation of leaders, 
that they are learning how to do miracles.  They are learning how to heal the 
sick, raise the dead, read minds, tell people their address and phone 
numbers, and their names of their parents.  They are learning to do that, 
they are learning to call out healings, they are learning to read behind 
somebody's face and see the sin that is in them.  They are learning to do 
that, because that is very essential if they are going to convince the world 
that the message is from God.  

Modern miracles workers have yet to call down fire from heaven as did Elijah, 
but they may be working on that as well.  Third Wave officials tell of some 
fantastic Signs and Wonders, Wimber, for example, reported an incident where 
a woman's toe, which had been cut off, supposedly grew back.  He described 
another woman in Australia whose cleft palate closed up miraculously three 
days after God him a "word of knowledge" that she would be healed.  Wagner 
recounted a report from an Argentine faith healer, who's in the movement, by 
the name of Carlos Anacondia (sp.), who said, two particular manifestations 
of the Holy Spirit seem to impress unbelievers more than anything else in his 
crusades, "falling in the power of the Spirit" and "filling teeth."  On a 
fairly regular basis, decayed teeth are filled and new teeth grow where there 
were none before.  Interestingly enough, according to Anacondia, most 
unbeliever's teeth are filled and very few believers get their teeth filled.  
Now, I don't why he said that, or even why that's supposedly true, but I have 
another question, "Why does God fill teeth instead of just giving them new 
teeth as long as He is going to do it?"   

But, nonetheless, whether you are talking about Wagner or Wimber, they are 
convinced that these miracles are happening.  They are at least trying to 
convince us they are happening.   Both of them are convinced, for example, at 
least from what they say, that many dead people are being raised from the 
dead.  Many of them, not just some, not just a few, but many.  And it is 
really difficult to resist the conclusion that these are either utter 
fabrications, that have just grown with the telling, or that these people are 
so caught in the wish that these things come to pass, that they have 
convinced themselves that in fact they do.  In the two cases that I mentioned 
to you from John Wimber, he maintains that medical doctors witnessed the 
events, yet he offers no documentation.  

And you have to ask the question somewhere along the line, "Why don't they 
publish proof that these events really took place?"  It would seem to me that 
if people are being raised from the dead, at a fairly regular clip through 
the year, some of these people could show up somewhere and there could be 
some evidence.  Particularly if they had been in the grave for several days 
like Lazarus, because somebody would have been there to see them put in the 
ground.  And we wonder why they don't publish the proof of these things, 
phenomena such as digit and limb replacement, the healing of birth defects, 
supernatural dentistry, and raising the dead.  It seems to me that it would 
be rather easy to document.  It would certainly help bring about the kind of 
world wide response the Third Wave people say they are hoping to have.

To borrow from one of them, you can only imagine if they could take four 
quadriplegics and instantly heal them of their quadriplegia.  Four who were 
well known by many and been known for years to be in that condition, and they 
could step out of the wheel chair and be absolutely 100% whole.  It wouldn't 
seem too difficult a thing to present the evidence for that.  And it would 
seem to me to be quite a powerful statement.  

But a pattern has begun to emerge from the Third Wave literature, and that is 
this, the truly spectacular miracles always seem to involve nameless people.  
Real people's miracles tend to be mundane and hard to prove: cures involving 
back pain, inner healings, migraine relief, emotional deliverance, ringing in 
the ears, maybe some internal problem that is stated but not verified.  The 
only time you get a detailed, step-by-step, carefully laid out description of 
a healing situation is an occasion when the healing doesn't happen.  You hear 
rather oblique references to the healing that did happen, and rather detailed 
descriptions of the ones that don't.  

A prime example is Wagner's account of his friend Tom Brewster, a paraplegic, 
who believed in healing.  Brewster was so hopeful that God would heal him 
that he even distributed a "Declaration of Expectation" to his friends--an 
expression of his faith that he would one day walk.  That faith never 
wavered, Wagner says, though it had been almost thirty years since a diving 
accident left him confined to a wheel chair.  But the miracle never came.  
Brewster died after unsuccessful bladder surgery.  It's difficult to read 
that account without noting how markedly it contrasts with the many supposed 
miracles that these Third Wave people account.  The most dramatic miracles 
come with only sketchy details and are almost nearly always anonymous.  
Rarely do they ever involve people who are known personally to those who 
report the miracles.  You understand that?  They are not first hand.  And 
whenever you hear the story told about the first hand it seems to have a sad 
ending.  

Perhaps the most significant man in the life of John Wimber was a British 
Anglican who died of cancer, much to the great dismay and concern and sorrow 
of John.  A group of five medical doctors, Christians, attended a recent 
conference the Third Wave had.  These men were hoping to establish the truth 
of the claims that miraculous healings were taking place.  One of them, 
Doctor Philip Seldon (sp.) reported, 

      The fact that John Wimber knew we were present and observing may 
      have served to tone down the claims which we understand were 
      made at previous conferences.  Mr. Wimber, himself, referred to 
      bad backs and indicated that people could expect pain relief but 
      no change which could be documented by a doctor.  He admitted 
      that he had never seen a degenerated vertebrae restored to 
      normal shape.  And as I suspected, most of the conditions which 
      were prayed over were in the psychosomatic, trivial, or 
      medically difficult to document categories.  Problems with left 
      great toe, nervous disorder, breathing problems, barrenness, 
      unequal leg lengths, bad backs and neck.  

The doctor concluded, "At this stage we are unaware of any organic healings 
which could be proven."

Now, what explanation is given for people who are not healed, because we know 
that many people must go there who have real problems.  Right?  I mean, if 
you hear that miracles are being done and you are looking for that to happen 
in your life--you are going to go.  And people do not get healed--obviously.  
The reasons given are: some people don't have faith in God for healing; 
another reason, personal unconfessed sin creates a barrier to God's healing 
power; another one they say is persistent and widespread disunity, sin, and 
unbelief in bodies of believers and families, inhibits healings in individual 
members of the body.  

In other words, they will say, one, "You don't have enough faith to be 
healed.  Your lack of faith is hindering God."  Or they will say, "You have 
unconfessed sin in your life and you put a barrier between you and God."  Or 
they will say, "You are going to a church that doesn't believe in healings so 
you are not going to get healed as long as you are in that environment."  Or 
they will say, "Because of incomplete or incorrect diagnosis of what is 
causing your problem, you do not know how to pray correctly, and if you don't 
know what your problem is you can't pray correctly to get it fixed, it won't 
get fixed, or it might not."  "And some people," they say further, don't get 
healed because they assume that God always heals instantly, and when they 
don't get instantly healed they stop praying, so they don't get healed.  

Oddly enough, John Wimber, himself, said, "I never blame the sick person for 
lack of faith if healing doesn't come."  That's a contradictory statement.  
And eventually he is still trying to piece together the theology of this.  He 
struggles, because he said also, "I have a continually expanding group of 
disgruntled people who have come for healing and don't get it."  

Now, the reality is, with the Third Wave, with all of its emphasis on signs 
and wonders, it has produced nothing really verifiable that qualifies in the 
New Testament sense as an authentic sign or wonder, at least nothing that 
they have made available.  Jesus' miracles must, after all, be the standard 
by which we make an evaluation.  Right?  No one before Jesus or since has 
performed as many signs and wonders as He did during His earthly ministry.  
His miracles were strikingly different from those produced by the modern 
signs and wonders movement.  None involved psychosomatic infirmities, all 
were visible and verifiable, they were, in short, true signs and wonders.

We learned some other things about the miracles from our Lord's ministry, 
chiefly that miracles do not necessarily produce faith in an unbelieving 
heart.  Let me say that again, they do not necessarily produce faith in an 
unbelieving heart.  I don't want to say that there aren't times when God can 
use or has used the miraculous to produce or to assist in producing faith.  
Faith is a gift from God but it is possible that a miracle has been a 
component in God bringing about that faith.  But that is not necessarily what 
happens, and that certainly cannot be guaranteed to happen.  In fact, in the 
Gospel of John, Jesus did many signs and many wonders.  In fact, He 
proliferated that entire nation of Palestine with signs and wonders.  And the 
people were able to see them and even to participate in them, such as in the 
feeding of the Great Multitude.

The net effect of all of that tremendous, tremendous, miracle working 
enterprise could be summed up in the words of John 12:37, "But though He had 
performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him."  
There is no guarantee that because there are miracles there will be saving 
faith.  It is true that as I said, God may use miracles to bring about faith.  
In Acts 9, you might want to look at it for a moment; in Acts, chapter 9, in 
verse 32, "Peter was traveling through all those parts," writes Luke.  "He 
came down to the saints who lived at Lydda.  And there he found a certain man 
named Aeneas, who had been bedridden eight years, for he was paralyzed.  And 
peter said to him, 'Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; arise, and make your 
bed.'  And immediately he arose.  And all who lived at Lydda and Sharon saw 
him, and they turned to the Lord."

If you were to read into the next section, in Joppa, there was a woman there 
named Tabitha (or Dorcas).  She died and Peter was used to bring her back to 
life.  And in verse 42 it says, "And it became known all over Joppa, and many 
believed in the Lord."  We don't want to say categorically, that there would 
never be a time when God wouldn't cause some miraculous act to be a component 
in the producing of faith.  But that seems to be the minority effect.  The 
majority seem not to have such a response.  In spite of all of Jesus' 
miracles, raising the dead, healing the sick, giving sight to the blind, 
having authority over demons, the people rejected Him, the people crucified 
Him, and at the time of His death there were only about 120 followers 
gathered in the Upper Room, and that after several years of miraculous acts.  

The gospels contain numerous examples of people who witnessed Jesus' signs, 
who witnessed His wonders, and yet remained in utter unbelief.  He rebuked 
the cities where He performed most of His miracles: He rebuked Korazim, 
Bethsedia, He rebuked Capernaum, because they didn't repent, and because they 
had seen so many miracles.  And He even says that they were even worse off 
than Sodom and Gomorrah, because Sodom and Gomorrah, as bad as it was, would 
have repented if it had seen as much as they had seen.  John 2:23 tells us 
that, "Many believed in His name, because they saw the signs," yet that kind 
of belief was not a saving belief.  Jesus didn't consider them true 
believers, according to verse 24.  

In John, chapter 6, verse 2, the record says that, "A great multitude was 
following Him, because they were seeing the signs which He was performing on 
those who were sick."  And yet, in verse 66, when He began to teach them, and 
He began to speak about the spiritual issues that confronted them, it says, 
many of the same crowd "withdrew, and were not walking with Him any more."  
So there are times when, whatever kind of believing they did, was not 
believing unto salvation.  In John, chapter 11, Jesus raised Lazarus from the 
dead, a monumental miracle.  Absolutely monumental!  Even His enemies 
couldn't deny it, according to John 11:47.  But far from believing in Jesus, 
that simply accelerated their desire to plot His death.  

Things really weren't much different than that in the Book of Acts, in the 
early Church.  In Acts 3, Peter and John healed a man who had been lame from 
birth and again the Jewish religious leaders didn't deny the miracle had 
occurred, according to Acts 4:16.  They couldn't deny it, but their response 
was far from saving faith.  They ordered the Apostles to stop speaking in the 
name of Jesus.  Go back into the Old Testament and you can examine the record 
of Old Testament signs and wonders, they didn't produce saving faith either.  
Pharaoh's heart was hardened despite the powerful signs and wonders God did 
through Moses.  The entire generation of Israelites who witnessed those same 
miracles, died in unbelief in the wilderness.  It didn't seem to lead them to 
any great spiritual level of devotion.  

Despite all the miracles performed during the time of Elijah and Elisha, and 
those times when God acted miraculously at other seasons, both Israel and 
Judah failed to repent and were ultimately carried away into captivity.  In 
fact, the very account that John Wimber cites as Biblical justification for 
power encounters, Elijah's confrontation with the prophets of Baal, is an 
example.  The revival produced out of that amazing act by which God sent fire 
from heaven and burned up stones and water, the amazing, amazing miracle 
produced a very short lived response, and within a few days Elijah was hiding 
for fear of his life, and Baal worship continued until God finally judged 
Israel.

Now, that is not to say that signs and wonders were not important when God 
used them.  It is not to say that they never were used by God to be a part of 
the production of faith.  But that was not the normal result.  They often 
attracted people's attention so the gospel message could be [preached], and 
people hearing that message were saved.  But, miracles and signs and wonders, 
in themselves, do not produce saving faith.  And so when they say they 
promise "signs and wonders" it's questionable whether the "signs and wonders" 
are really legitimate, and it's questionable whether the "signs and wonders" 
are necessary for producing saving faith, since that is not their purpose in 
the Scripture generally.  

Secondly, they make the promise of "Powerful Evangelism," "Power Evangelism."  
What they are really doing (and this follows the first point) is being 
powerful in terms of turning people to God.  My conviction on this, however, 
is that what they say is "Powerful Evangelism" lacks, very often, the very 
necessary element of evangelism which is a clear proclamation of gospel 
truth.  The saving message gets badly corrupted and sometimes even omitted.  
Third Wave books and Third Wave testimonies are filled with anecdotes about 
people who supposedly became Christians on the basis of some miracle they 
saw; some supernatural wonder they saw, with little or no mention of the 
gospel having been proclaimed to them.  

In fact, in the book, Power Evangelism, which was John Wimber's main book and 
sort of set this thing in motion (it's the main textbook on evangelism), 
there is no reference in that whole book to the cross of Christ or the 
doctrine of the atonement.  I understand, now, that some are endeavoring to 
instruct him in that matter so that he can understand that, and that there is 
a revision of that book coming out which will delineate a clear doctrine of 
the atonement and the true gospel.  But, up until now it hasn't seemed to be 
necessary for the expansion and explosion of the movement.  Soteriology, or 
the doctrine of salvation, an accurate gospel message, can hardly be 
considered as a major thrust of this movement.  In all the fuss about the 
signs and wonders, the content of the gospel seems to have been given second 
place.  

One report goes like this, 

      A serious consideration by observers in one of the seminars, was 
      that there was no gospel in the so-called evangelistic meeting.  
      The cross of Jesus was not central, the atonement was not 
      explained, and mankind's need and the provision of redemption 
      not even cursorily treated.  Believing himself to be following 
      the example of Jesus and the Apostles, John Wimber called out 
      for those who needed to be healed: bad backs, short legs, neck 
      pain, and a whole host of diseases.  People were asked to stand 
      and team members dispatched to pray for them while on the stage 
      John demanded that the Spirit come, and after a few minutes of 
      silence several screams were heard and people sobbing.  A little 
      later it was declared that people had been healed and God had 
      given a token as a sign to those who did not believe.  In short, 
      they were asked to base their decision on what they had seen, or 
      rather the interpretation of what they had seen, and the 
      sacrifice for sin through Christ didn't even get a mention.  I 
      left wondering what faith people would have been converted to 
      that night?  It didn't seem to resemble New Testament 
      Christianity.

Now, I realize that this may be but the observation of one individual, but it 
seems as though in reading the material, this is a somewhat common thread.  
Peter Wagner says that he marvels that Argentine evangelist, Omar Cabrerra 
(sp.) has people saved and healed before he starts preaching.  It's a 
question to me, how can you get saved before you hear the message?  But [it 
is] not a question that seems to bother some of them.  Most of the Third 
Wavers believe that miracles are more effective than the gospel message 
preached, that preaching is limited, and I shared some of that with you a 
few weeks ago.  That somehow preaching is a very poor way to get people to 
come to Christ, the least of all ways desirable.  Wagner further writes, 

      Christianity began with 120 in the Upper Room, within three 
      centuries it had become the predominant religion of the Roman 
      Empire.  What brought this about?  The answer is deceptively 
      simple, while Christianity was being presented to unbelievers in 
      both Word and deed, it was the deed that far exceeded the Word 
      in evangelistic effectiveness.

That's a remarkable statement: "That the deed is more powerful than the 
Word," seems to me to "fly in the face" of Hebrews 4, which says that, "The 
Word is sharper than any two-edged sword, and is able to pierce to depths 
that nothing else can pierce."  The Anglican, Michael Harper says, "Miracles 
help people believe."  The question is, "Believe what?"  Is the gospel being 
clearly, carefully delineated?  In fact, it has been said that those of us 
who don't do signs and wonders, and perform miracles, are doing what they 
call "Programmatic Evangelism," instead of "Power Evangelism."  It is 
insipid, it is powerless, vapid, kind of evangelism.  What is needed is 
"Power Evangelism," supernatural encounters.  Those are the things that bring 
people to Christ.

Two fallacies, at least, lurk in that kind of thinking; both render it 
utterly ineffective in winning people to genuine faith in Christ.  When 
modern miracles become the basis for an evangelistic invitation, the real 
message of the gospel somehow becomes incidental.  And you would have to be 
in a meeting where you would see the "swept away attitude" of people who are 
so deeply lost in an emotional experience, and this may not always be the 
case, but often the case, that a clear message might not come through.  There 
is often a mystical, ethereal Jesus who replaces the historical, Biblical 
one.  And the focus of faith becomes faith in the miraculous, rather than 
faith in the Savior Himself.  Those who put their trust in modern miracles 
are not saved by that faith no matter how earnestly they may believe they 
are.  You are only saved by putting your faith in Jesus Christ.  

Secondly, Power Evangelism seems to me to be an unbiblical concept.  "Faith 
comes from hearing," doesn't it?  "And hearing the Word of Christ."  It is 
the gospel, not signs and wonders, that is the power of God unto salvation.  
And do you not remember what Luke 16:31 says, "If they do not listen to Moses 
and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded though someone rises . . ." 
what?  "From the dead."  Despite the many signs and wonders that Jesus 
performed, Jesus didn't practice that kind of Power Evangelism.  In fact, He 
repeatedly rebuked those who demanded signs, (Matthew 12, 16; Mark 8; Luke 
11, 23; John 4).  He rebuked the "signs seekers."  

The emphasis of Jesus' ministry was not miracles but preaching.  He often 
preached without doing signs, without doing wonders.  And then in Mark 1:29-
34, we read that Jesus did many miraculous healings in Galilee.  Verse 37, 
tells us that Peter and the others found Him the next morning and excitedly 
said, "Everybody is looking for you.  They want to see more of this.  They 
want to see more signs and more wonders."  And Jesus said this, (Mark 1:38) 
"Let us go somewhere else to the towns nearby, in order that I may preach 
there also; for that is what I came out for."  He came to preach, therein 
lies the power.  Preaching the Word was more important than the Signs and 
Wonders, and I believe the Third Wave is advocating a different approach and 
is out of balance with the Bible in that regard.  

Well, there is more to say.  Just briefly, let me share two thoughts with 
you.  They also promise a Biblical orientation, but I am very much afraid of 
the fact, and by their own admission, that they have many errors in their 
theology.  And as I spoke to several of them this week, I asked the question, 
"If God is giving Signs and Wonders, is it to authenticate His message?"  
Which the answer has to be yes.  "Then would you explain to me why the people 
who claim to be doing the Signs and Wonders are the ones who have an errant 
theology?  Why would God be authenticating error?"  It would seem to me that 
if God was going to give somebody the ability to do Signs and Wonders, thus 
to draw people to His message, He would give such a gift and ability to one 
who was most capable of articulating accurately the proper message.  And by 
their own admission they realize that there are many theological 
inaccuracies, Biblical inaccuracies, in the movement, and that poses the 
unanswerable query as to, "Why in the world would God want to be using 
miracles to authenticate those who, as of yet, don't even have their theology 
straighten out?"  John Wimber would be the first to admit that they are still 
accumulating a theology.  He made the statement that, "We are drawing 
together our experiences so that we can frame up a theology."  And it seems 
odd to think that God would be vindicating such and authenticating such.  

Furthermore, they are committed to the fact that the Bible is not enough, 
that there must be further communication from God.  One of their leaders says 
that, 

      To believe that the Scripture is the end of God's revelation is 
      a demonic doctrine.  In order to fulfill God's highest purpose 
      for our lives, we must be able to hear His voice both in the 
      written word and the word freshly spoken from heaven.  Satan 
      understands the strategic importance of Christians hearing God's 
      Word, so he has launched various attacks against us in this 
      area.  Ultimately, this doctrine, that is, believing that the 
      Scripture is the end of revelation, is demonic, even though 
      Christian theologians have been used to perfect it.  So 
      Christian theologians who have perfected the idea that the 
      Scripture is the end of God's revelation, have perfected a 
      demonic doctrine, because God is still speaking. 
      
And there is a great thirst for new revelation, that I believe imposes upon 
the movement a low view of Scripture's sufficiency.  

Well, let me just give you a final note.  There is much more to say about 
that, you can read it in my book [Charismatic Chaos] when it gets here in a 
few months.  There is just one other thing to note, and so much more that I 
would like to say.  They claim also an evangelical heritage, they claim also 
an evangelical heritage.  If you listen to them, you would believe that they 
are in the mainstream of evangelicalism, that they are committed to a 
traditional, Biblical theology.  And yet that is not true.  Statements of 
faith and creeds are just not a part of that movement.  John Wimber's 
Vineyard is typical, I am quoting from one writer, 

      Another disturbing aspect of the Vineyard's ministry is their 
      lack of any written statement of faith.  Because Vineyard 
      members come from a variety of denominational backgrounds, the 
      leadership has avoided setting strong doctrinal standards.  This 
      de-emphasis of doctrine is also consistent with the leadership, 
      whose backgrounds, theologically include association with the 
      Quakers, who typically stress the inner experience of God and 
      mimimize the need for doctrinal expressions of one's 
      understanding of God.    

That's from the Christian Research Institute.  There is no way that they can 
connect up with historic, traditional, evangelical, orthodox theology, 
because they don't codify doctrine.  They don't develop creeds and 
theological statements, so how do they know where they stand?  And yet in 
spite of that, they want to position their movement in the mainstream of 
historic evangelicism.  They want to emphasize conservative, even 
fundamentlist roots, but that does not bear out under examination.  The 
movement is broadly ecumenical and cencredic.  There is an evangelical veneer 
but the wide embracing of all kinds of experiences.  Now, it is possible that 
this could change.  There maybe some winds of change, there may be some 
doctrinal direction and structure coming, but at the present time this is 
true.  To reinforce that, may I say, Wimber is as comfortable with Roman 
Catholic dogma as he is with evangelicism.  He himself defends the Catholic 
claims of healings through relics.  He advocates a reunification of 
Protestants and Catholics.  A former associate said, 

      During a Vineyard Pastors Conference, he went so far as to 
      apologize to the Catholic Church on behalf of all Protestants.  
      In his seminar on Church Planting, he said, the Pope, who by the 
      way is very responsive to the Charismatic movement and is 
      himself a "Born Again" evangelical, is preaching the gospel as 
      clear as anyone in the world today.

You can see that there is some confusion.  In their book on Power Evangelism, 
he gives a catalog of individuals and movements.  When he wants to seek to 
establish Signs and Wonders, he reaches back and He identifies himself with a 
whole list of people, Helleron (sp.), a fourth century hermit, Augustine, 
Pope Gregory the Great, Francis of Assisi, the Waldenses who opposed the Pope 
and were persecuted by the Dominicans, Vincent Ferrera (sp.) who was himself 
was a Dominican, Martin Luther, Ignatius of Loyola, John Wesley, and the 
Jansenists, a Catholic sect.  It's a hodgpoge of all kinds of things.  In a 
booklet published by the Vineyard, he adds the Shakers.  They were a cult 
that demanded celibacy and thus went out of existence for obvious reasons.  
He puts himself in line with Edward Irving, a discredited leader of the 
Irvingnite sect in 19th century England.  He also identifies himself with the 
supposed healings and miracles worked by an apprition of the Virgin Mary at 
Lourdes.  So you can see that the heritage is not at all evangelical, but 
quite confused.  Even Wagner wants to link himself with contempory, positive, 
possibility thinking as well as with the Fourth Demensional thinking of 
Korean Pastor Paul Yongee Chow (sp.).  It's a hodgpog of many, many things.  

All of this to say we need to be alert.  We need to be aware.  We need to 
test all these things by the Word of God.  My only hope and prayer for these 
people is that someone may come to them, someone who can lead them to a 
proper understanding of the truth, pulling them away from this tremendous 
preoccupation and domination that comes to them from experiences.  
Experiences can be so deadly because they cannot always be certain that they 
come from God.  

Well, much more to be said.  I guess what I can say in conclusion is, "Don't 
be swept away by the Third Wave."  And remember this, the only true test of 
whether a person or a movement is from God is not Signs and Wonders.  A true 
test is, teaching in conformity to this Book.  And the highest expression of 
God's power in the world today is not some spectacular, unusual Sign or 
Wonder.  The highest expression of God's power in the world today is the 
transformation of a soul from darkness to light, from death to life.  And 
equally wonderus is the tranquil godliness of a Spirit controlled believer.

Let me just say this in closing, I don't believe for one moment that we have 
ministered here at Grace Church for 22 years without the Holy Spirit.  And I 
don't believe for one moment that we have never known the Power of God.  I 
shared with these gentlemen, with whom I spoke on Friday, that we see the 
power of God, again and again.  We saw it tonight, didn't we, when we heard 
the testimonies, week in and week out.  I see it in the trasformatioon of 
your life.  I see it in the transformations of your marriage.  For the last 
several weeks I have been praying for a marriage in our church.  It was 
coming apart at the seams, really sad, grieving.  And I saw, apart from 
anything that I did, apart from any intervention by me--God put that marriage 
together in a glorious way.  We've seen that again and again.  I talked to a 
mother and a father who had prayed for a wayward son and God brought that son 
back to the point where that son embraced Christ and embraced his family in 
Christ.  

I don't for one moment search because I have never known the power of God in 
this ministry, and I just affirm that, not for my own sake, not to bring 
credit to me, but that no one would discredit what Christ has done here and 
what His spirit has accomplished.  Nothing that happens in the supernatural 
dimension happens because of me or you, that's out of our league.  But I will 
not yield to any who would assume that what we have experienced here is a 
cheap version of the real power.  Many of you have come to faith in Christ 
here.  Many of you have grown in your knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ and 
been used of God in many ways in spiritual service, the benefits of your own 
spiritual growth and maturity, because of the ministries here.  Many have 
gone out of this place and conducted powerful ministries all over the world, 
and they go on even today.  And I guess, all of that to say, to be real 
honest with you, I am not looking for anything, because I have already in my 
life lived through Ephesians 3:20, and I've seen God do, "exceedingly, 
abundantly, above all I could ask or think."  And to be honest with you, my 
faith is strong enough to accept that this is the evidence of the power of 
God and I don't have to have more proof.  Some people say they have the faith 
for all of that, but I think they have doubt looking for proof--very often.  
And I want to affirm tonight my gratitude to God and to the Holy Spirit, and 
to the Lord Jesus Christ for what They have accomplished in this place, and 
what They have accomplished through the teaching of the Word and the faithful 
ministry that God has given to this church, here and around the world.  And I 
want to give God all the glory for all of it, and I want to acknowledge along 
with you that He has done it, and we have never ministered for a moment 
feeling that He wasn't here in the fullness of His power accomplishing His 
work for His own glory.  And He has done it in an orderly way without chaos 
and without confusion, and we praise Him for that.  

Father, thank you for our time tonight to consider these things.  Help us 
Lord to be able to evaluate everything by the Word.  We know that in this 
movement there are some who, of course, are our brothers and sisters, who 
love the Lord Jesus Christ, and we would pray for them, that your Spirit 
might lead them to bring Biblical direction where they are able to this 
movement.  To confront its errors and excesses.  We pray Lord too that no one 
would be led astray and led away from the simplicity that is in Christ and 
into chaos and confusion of emotional experience, and find it to be a 
substitute for true regeneration.  Father, we pray too that you would allow 
us with grace and love to speak to folks who perhaps are in these kinds of 
groups and to bring them the help that your Word and your Spirit would want 
them to have.  In Jesus' Name.  Amen.  

Transcribed by Tony Capoccia of

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