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                    Results: 1st Edition Ratings
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          Compiled by: brooks@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (Goth)

[Note: This file is one section of the ratings posted on December 22, 1994 
to rec.games.frp.dnd; it is included in order to make the publically 
available ratings as complete as possible.]

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                          Points Ratings
                          ==============

In order for a product to appear on the points rating table, it must
have at least five votes. Products are listed in points order, from
highest to lowest.

     /-------------------------------------------------------\
     |                        - Key -                        |
     |                                                       |
     |  Score = the product's average rating                 |
     |  Low = the lowest rating anyone gave this product     |
     |  High = the highest rating anyone gave this product   |
     |  Voters = the number of people who rated the product  |
     \-------------------------------------------------------/

Product                                     Score  Low  High  Voters
-------                                     -----  ---  ----  ------
A1-4: Scourge of the Slave Lords             8.4    5    10      9
A4: In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords       8.3    6    10      9
I6: Ravenloft                                8.2    7    10      6
Dungeon Master Guide                         8.1    3    10     21
A2: Secret of the Slavers Stockade           7.8    6    10     12
Monster Manual                               7.4    5    10     22
A3: Assault on the Aerie of the Slave Lords  7.4    5    10     10
H4: Throne of Bloodstone                     7.4    5    10     10
Fiend Folio Tome                             7.2    4    10     21
Deities and Demigods/Legends & Lore          7.2    4    10     18
A1: Slave Pits of the Undercity              7.2    6     8     12
Player's Handbook                            7.0    5    10     22
I10: Ravenloft II: House on Gryphon Hill     7.0    5     9      5
EX2: Land Beyond the Magic Mirror            6.9    4    10     11
H2: Mines of Bloodstone                      6.9    3    10     10
Manual of the Planes                         6.8    3     9     16
I2: Tomb of the Lizard King                  6.8    6    10      5
EX1: Dungeonland                             6.7    4    10     11
Monster Manual II                            6.6    3     9     19
H3: Bloodstone Wars                          6.4    3    10      9
Unearthed Arcana                             6.0    0    10     22
Dungeoneer's Survival Guide                  6.0    2     7     16
OP1: Tales of the Outer Planes               6.0    5     7      7
H1: Bloodstone Pass                          5.9    4    10      9
Wilderness Survival Guide                    5.5    2     8     14

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                             Comments
                             ========

This next bit is a selection of comments people have sent in. I've
removed some remarks which were very similar, especially for products
which provoked large quantities of comment and I've done some minor
editing for grammar and spelling. Other than that, this is how they
were sent in.

General Comments on the 1st Edition Hardcovers
----------------------------------------------
Both the PH and DMG have the same problem: the lack of structure. But
how would one have coped without them!?

The DSG, WSG and MotP had lots of info, and were good for new ideas.
It is impossible to use them all, still it's better to have too many
things, than too few.

PHB, DMG & MM: What can I say? All one needed for the game (except
dice), and that helped to incite the imagination. The only criticism
on the MM was that xps should have been included -- but then the
players could find out.

Monster Manual, Players Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide: I find it
hard to "rate" these three books since with just these three I was
able to play AD&D for many years before buying anything else.

Players Handbook and Dungeon Masters Guide: I liked these, although
they were badly organised and had the worst indices I have ever seen.
There was always something more to discover in them: hidden tables,
rules, even sections.

I think the generally better results from these books (IMHO) is a
result of their being released when TSR was still making games, not
just making money. I dunno, they just seemed to honestly care about
what they put out then, even if it wasn't as flashy.

The only problem with most of these was the atrocious language and
editing that came with them. Otherwise, they were great. The Fiend
Folio, Deities and Demigods, and the DMG all had outstanding ideas
and concepts.

The only ones that have remained in my collection are the DMG, MM,
MM2, Fiend Folio and Deities and Demigods.

Monster Manual
--------------
Both Monster Manuals (and the Fiend Folio) lacked the new 2nd edition
structure, which I like very much.

The 1st edition MM is still pretty good, with good artwork, and a
high density of monsters per page. Still, I like the added info in
the 2nd edition books (ecology, habitat, etc).

_The_ original, of course, with all the unanswered questions like
"why does the peryton have a man-shadow" and "why did they put in a
joke-picture with the giant lynx, but for no other?" Would be rated
higher if the XP values were in this book instead of the DMG -- I had
to write them all in manually.

Both Monster Manuals were great value for money, but were a little
sparse on the descriptions of monsters, their habitat, and attitudes.
Although it costs more, I think I prefer the Monstrous Manual.

Good selection of monsters for a starter.

Dungeon Masters Guide
---------------------
I liked the many appendices at the end of the DMG, and still use them
frequently. It also kept more from the players which I like.

The 1st edition DMG suffered from the author's "creative" arranging
of information and skimpy index. However, the sheer amount and
quality of the information it provided is astounding. I *still* use
this book a *lot* in my 2nd edition games!

The Dungeon Masters Guide is a pool of ideas and treasures, as badly
organized as they might be. I love to page through this tome again
and again and still find new and interesting things. A great thing!

The lay-out is a bit strange, but the language used is of an
intelligent level (I looked up a _lot_ of words when I first started
playing in 5th grade - very educational). Hints on spells, creating
magic items, and those great artifact/relic power/effect tables....

The DMG is a great and useful resource, especially if you grew up
with it and can actually find things you want and have a good idea of
what's in there. Now if they could have kept all that info and still
done the editing job of 2nd edition you would have a great book,
although all the tables for everything would not have fitted in with
the style of 2nd edition.

The AD&D 1st edition DMG is one of the best valued books in the RPG
industry, the sheer amount of info it gives, however badly organized,
makes it a useful tool for not only AD&D DM's but game masters of any
fantasy game.

The DM's Guide was the best, with the '84 cover (DM opening Dante's
door to Inferno) because of its sheer size and information. Plus the
little adventure in it was more inventive than some I've seen printed
in the last few years.

Wonderful book, many ideas, disorganised.

Players Handbook
----------------
The 1st Edition PHB is much worse than its 2nd edition counterpart.

I didn't think the PHB was too bad when I bought it, but compared to
the 2nd edition PHB, it's rating has dropped. Poor organization,
necessary data is missing, tiny font is hard on eyes.

What can I say? Originally, this was all a player needed to create
and run a character -- no need for endless supplements... use your
imagination if you want more! :)

The 1st edition PHB is possibly the best thing TSR has ever put out,
with the 1st edition MM a close second.

Deities & Demigods/Legends & Lore
---------------------------------
I really like Deities and Demigods and, with some modification, would
treat gods in my world as they are given here rather than going with
the new avatar stuff.

I don't like any book that gives stats for the Gods. If these beings
are supposed to be so powerful, then why do they give them non-25+
characteristics? 

Deities & Demigods rocked! Except for a few noticeable bare spots in
the demi-humans section, it laid out pretty much everything you
needed to know about these deities but were afraid to ask.

The descriptions in Legends & Lore were very good, giving a lot of
ideas for adventures, cultural background, etc. 

Research was good to make the pantheons self-consistent, if not
completely historically accurate. Much detail on the gods, their
motives, history, heroes, and legendary items. Plus, all the drawings
of those beautiful goddesses... drool, drool (hey, I was in junior
high school...)

I missed out on the 1st print of the D&D, which I regret, but I still
like it (D&D) better than L&L. Added a dimension to role-playing that
hadn't previously been covered, and was needed.

Fiend Folio Tome
----------------
Added a whole slew of interesting monsters.

Great new monsters, great illustrations throughout. Monsters have
good descriptions and history, as well as being typeset in a nice
font, and the complete monster tables in the back are nice, too.

The Fiend Folio was a big disappointment for me when it came out. 
Far too many monsters had the feel of "one shot" monsters or else
were just plain stupid.  

I think the FF is as good as the MM. A lot of good (and a few less
good) monsters. I would have preferred more and better pictures,
preferrably in colour.

Some of the monsters in the FF and MMII did start looking a little
too unbelievable.

Unearthed Arcana
----------------
Other than a few new magic items and spells, UA is a waste. Totally
munchkin, not worth the money.

UA -- many mistakes, not enough new. Should have just done 2nd
edition at this point.

Unearthed Arcana added some much-needed add-ons for the game. If for
nothing else than the weapons and cantrips lists, this book is worth
whatever you can find it for.

Unbalanced the game. No long term value.

The treasure tables from Unearthed Arcana, Weapon Specialization and
the Barbarian were some of the greatest inventions I could think of
at those times. Today I disdain weapon specialization, but then...
:-)
The UA energized my campaign at first but many of the rules that I
adopted later played havoc with my campaign, turning it into Monty
Haul hell.

As a player I *loved* this: new classes, more spells, more POWER...
As a DM I hated it, power munchkinism at its worst :-)

Crap. Reused material from Dragon magazines (most of which I or
my friends already had) -- cavalier, barbarian, spells, etc. They
even reused some of the art! Also, bad planning placing material for
GM's _and_ for players in the same book -- how can you have one of
your players borrow it to look over the barbarian when they
can easily read up on the philospher's stone? How is a player
supposed to use this as a reference during the game if it has magic
item stats in it? Grrr....

Though many claim the information in this book to be munchkinish, I
got a great deal of use out of this book, in particular the new
spells.

I don't believe barbarians nor cavaliers exist (except as role-played
fighter types), and paladins are a subclass of fighter :-) Acrobats
are cool though. Cool cantrips, and new magic goodies. Lotta fun,
adds new elements to the game, but some open to abuse.

I didn't like the barbarian (not compared to the one that was
featured in a Dragon Magazine) and I haven't seen anyone try the
thief-acrobat thief. And what's the use of the cavalier? There is
something I liked about the UA, but I can't remember what.

Nice spells, some nice classes (barbarian, thief-acrobat). Underdark
races too strong for normal campaign because of immunities to
illusion (duergar & svirfneblin). Some nice items, some too powerful
items, eg wand of force.

Monster Manual II
-----------------
Not enough worthwhile monsters.

Crap. Recycled monsters from modules and Dragon magazine. Artwork was
awful. I think that there were 2 new monsters that I liked
in that book (I had most of those modules/Dragons anyway -- most
material was taken from "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks" and
"The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth -- 2 neat modules, but SHAME ON
THEM for reusing all of that!). Sold it.

Great book, helped a lot in expanding my AD&D world.

Almost useless with just a few good monsters.

Dungeoneer's Survival Guide
---------------------------
Both survival guides make a decent job of making the average
all-night urban player aware of the perils of nature.

The DSG would have gotten lower marks than it did except that it
introduced the concept of NWP's, most of the other stuff in it was
poorly thought out and poorly researched.

Lots of good stuff, but little of it really essential.

Wilderness Survival Guide
-------------------------
I had very little use for this book except to roll up the weather
conditions.

I think the DSG and WSG are good, with information about how to
handle outdoor climates etc., and I'm using the weather system. I
should use them more than I do. There were more equipment prices (but
not nearly enough).

Manual of the Planes
--------------------
The Manual of Planes introduce a new playing field that had been
lacking a lot of description.

This was interesting, but confusing and it didn't give enough
information on the different races and terrains of the planes.
Although I haven't got Planescape, from what I have heard it sounds
better.

A fun book that provided a lot of adventure ideas and locales.

Slaver (A) Series of Modules
------------------------------
The concept behind Scourge of the Slave Lords is excellent. This is
one of the few modules that I've seen that forces the players to
role-play rather than rely on hack and slash. It's too bad that TSR
doesn't make them like this anymore. :(

In the Dungeons of the Slave Lords (A4) is a great idea, I've had fun
with this module many times.

The Slaver modules were cool. The idea was cool. I used them many
different times. The supermodule A1-4 was sort of useless -- TSR
could easily have reprinted the original 4 modules.

I gave (A1-4) a higher rating than the average of the separate
modules because of its superb "value for money".

A2 is the only one of the A series that I've run through, and it was
excellent. It screams "Gary Gygax" but that's ok. I can forgive the
10' x 10' lodestone after seeing the hallway full of boggles decimate
a party's items lists. >:)

Wonderland (EX) Series Modules
-------------------------------
Dungeonland and Land Beyond the Magic Mirror were fun to play, though
stupid.

Cool. I incorporated this into the Greyhawk Ruins the way Gygax
intended and my players were pissed!!! They hated the stuff they had
to put up with to stay alive so much that when they finally got back
home and found out that they need some of the mad hatter's tea to
revive a wizard that was guarding a portal to hell who had been
affected by a strange poison-like gas that somehow escaped from the
portal that they instead decided that they would rather seek out and
make a bargain with a lich to find a way to close the portal for
good!!! Now that's intimidation!!! I could never get them to play the
second module (EX2) -- they threatened that they would get up as a
group and go to the movies without me if it even resembled anything
like it!!!

As far as EX1 and EX2 go, my feeling is you either love 'em or hate
'em; depending on how "serious" you like your campaign to be. I like
a make-sense-kind-of-world so they're not for me.

Dungeonland was interesting in the way Gygax adapted Lewis Carol's 
characters to AD&D stats.

Bloodstone (H) Series of Modules
--------------------------------
Having, through some miracle, obtained the entire H series, I have to
say that it was one of the most entertaining series of modules I've
seen. There are precious few modules out there that allow you play
your characters if they've reached the higher levels. And as such,
this is one of TSR's best series of modules. I'd only rate GDQ 1-7
better.

Mines of Bloodstone (H2) was a bit much.

The bloodstone adventures were cool in theory, but the original
Battlesystem rules *sucked*!!! Any system that will let a group of 50
archers fire a total of 100 arrows at a single individual and
determine if they hit by *one* die roll *sucks*. It was *too*
hilarious!!! I may try this one again with the *new* Battlesystem
(2nd Edition rules) and see how it goes - I haven't played these
rules yet but I hope they are an improvement...

H1-H4 depend much on the role-playing of both players and DM. I
cannot judge H4 really, as I just read it a few times.

Bloodstone is by far the most _killer_ series ever. I have yet to run
a session in it that didn't end up with over 250% character fatality
_per session_ (thank goodness for rods of ressurection). Of that
series, H2 was the best, with the most actual "dungeon crawling" and
the least amount of Battlesystem.

Call me munchkin, but I've got a soft spot for H4 -- high level
adventure, the chance to run a 100th level character, some neat (and
hard!) puzzles, and a really nasty guy at the end you just *want* to
depose. Everything a good module needs (that is, if you don't
actually take it all seriously ;) )

I Series of Modules
-------------------
I just love those WIGHTS in Tomb of The Lizard king!

The original Ravenloft and Ravenloft II were great and very
innovative, especially the simul-play option for both modules. The
Ravager was good for showing the effects of aging. Both showed
imagination and some hard work put into them. They are truly
classics.

The sum is better than its parts (referring to I3-5).

The spellbook curse in I2 is too strong.

Played together I'd rate I6/I10 an 11.

Tales of the Outer Planes (OP1)
-------------------------------
Some fine little adventures, some really goofy ones, especially the
low level ones.

Tales of the Outer Planes was a nice tongue-in-cheek look at the 
planes, I mean, a bar run by Santa? The scenarios weren't all that
bad either. I especially liked the first one involving Hecate, Enki,
the H

[accidental deletia]

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                              The End
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