F I D O  N E W S --         |        Vol. 8 No. 31 (5 August 1991)
  The newsletter of the     |
  FidoNet BBS community     |        Published by:
          _                 |
         /  \               |       "FidoNews" BBS
        /|oo \              |          (415)-863-2739
       (_|  /_)             |          FidoNet 1:1/1
        _`@/_ \    _        |          Internet: 
       |     | \   \\       |           fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
       | (*) |  \   ))      |
       |__U__| /  \//       |        Editors:
        _//|| _\   /        |          Tom Jennings
       (_/(_|(____/         |          Tim Pozar
             (jm)           |
----------------------------+---------------------------------------
Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international 
amateur network. Copyright 1991, Fido Software. All rights reserved. 
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes 
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews.

Paper price:   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $5.00US
Electronic Price:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  free!

For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


                          Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL  .....................................................  1
   Boring Editorial  ..............................................  1
2. FIDONET NEWS  ..................................................  2
   (No FidoNetNews this week)  ....................................  2
3. ARTICLES  ......................................................  3
   Time to license those evil computer programmers!  ..............  3
   Multiple Sclerosis Support Echo  ...............................  7
   Abstract: Electronic Frontier Foundation's EFFECTOR ONLINE  ....  8
   APL For the ubiquitous Personal Computer  ...................... 14
   THE MEDIUM AND THE MESSAGE  .................................... 15
   IS THE NODELIST TOO LONG?  ..................................... 17
   Conforming to the Lowest Common Denomitator  ................... 21
4. RANTS AND FLAMES  .............................................. 23
   Calling for Congressional Investigations into UFOs!  ........... 23
   Cens-or Nonsense  .............................................. 24
5. CLASSIFIEDS  ................................................... 26
6. NOTICES  ....................................................... 27
   A_THEIST Echo now on Backbone!  ................................ 27
   The Interrupt Stack  ........................................... 28
   POWER Echo Conference  ......................................... 28
   Solidarity Day '91  ............................................ 29
7. LATEST VERSIONS  ............................................... 30
   Latest Greatest Software Versions  ............................. 30
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 1                       5 Aug 1991


======================================================================
                              EDITORIAL
======================================================================

Boring Editorial
Tom Jennings

Absolutely nothing to say. So I'll resist temptation and shut up now. Bye!

Well OK, just this one thing. I had a really nice-looking notice for the
upcoming FIDOCON '91 happening in Denver Colorado, August 17 - 18, but I
lost it, as it didn't come in as a properly formatted article, but routed
through a few different computer networks and ended up in the UUCP message
area, where I promptly dropped it.

Everyone who is no-one will be there. Schmooze time deluxe. Hell, I hate
boring techy sessions as much as the next mammal, but hey, I love to stay
up late drinking beer and coffee alternately (my brother calls is a poor-
man's speed-ball) and talking and arguing. What else are these things for??
(I can't tell you -- I lost the annoucement.)

BE THERE OR BE SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 2                       5 Aug 1991


======================================================================
                             FIDONET NEWS
======================================================================

################################################################

FidoNetNews -- a weekly section devoted to technical and factual
issues within the FidoNet -- FidoNet Technical Standards Committee
reports, *C reports, information on FidoNet standards documents
and the like.

################################################################


----------------------------------------------------------------------


There were no FidoNetNews submissions this week. Tune again in
next week!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 3                       5 Aug 1991


======================================================================
                               ARTICLES
======================================================================

Time to license those evil computer programmers!
Gary Vedvik 1:102/1006

New Jersey, that state which has lately proved to be "the toughest in
the nation" by trampling on its residents is once again attempting to
reach all new lows. Now, what has this got to do with programming...?

A bill has passed in the assembly that would require the licensing of
computer programmers -- to protect the public interest, of course.
Lord knows the number of times I've been accosted in pizza parlors,
late at night, by renegade bands of unlicensed programmers. Well, now
we'll be able to control these low-lifes.

If you think I'm kidding, read on. What follows is Assembly Bill
A-4414, which has already passed the assembly. AT&T has estimated that
it would need to license over 5,000 people in New Jersey alone, and
there is nothing in the bill that differentiates home from business
use.

So watch out: besides being arrested for legally buying a gun 20 years
ago, you could also be arrested for modifying a DOS batch file!

New Jersey and you. Perfect together?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I enjoy working with human beings, and               John M. Ritter
have stimulating relationships with them."            Allied-Signal, Inc
                            - HAL 9000                Corporate Tax Dept
jmr@motown.Allied.COM {att,bellcore,clyde,princeton,rutgers}!motown!jmr
------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS: I don't think there are any errors in what follows, but no
    promises.
===================== cut here =========================================

                             [SECOND REPRINT]

                            ASSEMBLY, No. 4414

                            STATE OF NEW JERSEY

                        INTRODUCED JANUARY 24, 1991

                 by Assemblywoman KALIK, Assemblymen CASEY,
                             Spadoro and Mazur

AN ACT providing for the licensure of software [engineers] designers'
amending P.L.1971, c.60, P.L.1974, c.46 and P.L.1978,c.73, and
supplementing Title 45 of the Revised Statutes.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 4                       5 Aug 1991


BE IT ENACTED by the Senate and General Assembly of the State of New
Jersey:

1.  (New section) This act shall be known and may be cited as the
"Software [Engineers'] Designers' Licensing Act."

2.  (New section) The Legislature finds and declares that the public
interest requires the regulation of the practice of software
[engineering] designing and the establishment of clear licensure
standards for software [engineers] designers' and that the welfare of
the citizens of this State will be protected by identifying to the
public those individuals who are qualified and legally authorized to
practice software [engineering] designing.

3. (New section) As used in this act:

  "Board" means the State Board of Software [Engineers] Designers'
  established pursuant to section 4 of this act.

  "Licensed software [engineer] designer"' means any person who
  practices software [engineering] designing and who represents himself
  to the public by title or by description of services under any title
  incorporating such terms as "software engineer," "software'
  designer'," "chartered engineer," or "CEng" or any similar title or
  description of services, who is duly licensed pursuant to this act.

  "Software [engineering] designing"' means the process of creating
  software systems and applies to techniques that reduce software cost
  and complexity while increasing reliability and modifiability, which
  includes, but is not limited to, the elements of requirements
  [engineering] designing design specification, implementation testing
  and validation, operation and maintenance and software management.

4.  (New section) There is created within the Division of Consumer
Affairs in the Department of Law and Public Safety the State Board of
Software [Engineers] Designers'.  The board shall consist of nine
members who are residents of the State who shall be appointed by the
Governor.  Six members shall be licensed software [engineers] designers'
who have been actively engaged in software [engineering] designing for
at least five years immediately preceding their appointment, except that
the members initially appointed shall be licensed pursuant to this act
within 18 months of appointment.  Of the remaining members, two shall be
public members, and one shall be a member of the executive branch, all
of whom shall be appointed pursuant to section 2 of P.L.1971, c.60
(C.45:1-2.2).

5.  (New section) Each member of the board, except the members first
appointed, shall serve for a term of five years and shall hold office
until the appointment and qualification of his successor.  The initial
appointment to the board shall be:  two members for terms of two years,
two members for terms of three years, two members for terms of four
years, and three members for terms of five years.  Vacancies shall be
filled for the unexpired term only.  No member may be appointed for more
than two consecutive terms.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 5                       5 Aug 1991


6.  (New section) Members of the board shall be compensated and
reimbursed for expenses and provided with office and meeting facilities
pursuant to section 2 of P.L.1977, c.285 (C.45:1-2.5).

7.  (New section) The board shall annually elect from among its members
a chair, vice-chair and a secretary.  The board shall meet twice per
year and may hold additional meetings as necessary to discharge its
duties.

8. (New section) The board shall:

  a. Review the qualifications of applicants for licensure;

  b. Insure the proper conduct and standards for examinations;

  c.  Issue and renew licenses to software [engineers] designers'
  pursuant to this act;

  d. Refuse to admit to examination, refuse to issue, or suspend, revoke
  or fail to renew the license of a software [engineer] designer
  pursuant to the provisions of P.L.1978, c.73 (C.45:1-14 et seq.);

  e.  Maintain a record of every software [engineer] designer licensed
  in the State, their places of business, places of residence and the
  date and number of their license;

  f. Establish fees pursuant to P.L.1974, c.46 (C.45:1-3.1 et seq.);

  g.  Adopt and promulgate rules and regulations pursuant to the
  "Administrative Procedure Act," P.L.1968, c.410 (C.52:14B-1 et seq.)
  necessary to effectuate the purposes of this act.


9.  (New section) No person shall practice, or present himself as able
to practice, software [engineering] designing unless he possesses a
valid license as a software [engineer] designer in accordance with the
provision of this act.

10.  (New section) The provisions of this act shall not be construed to
prevent the following provided that no word, letter, abbreviation,
insignia, sign, card or device is used to convey the impression that the
person rendering the service is a licensed software [engineer]
designer':

  a.  Any person licensed to practice in this State under any other law
  from engaging in the practice for which he is licensed;

  b.  Any person employed as a software [engineer] designer by the
  federal government, if the person provides software [engineering]
  designing services solely under the direction or control of his
  federal employer; or

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 6                       5 Aug 1991


  c.  Any person pursuing a course of study leading to a degree or
  certificate in software [engineering] designing at an accredited or
  approved educational program if the person is designated by a title
  which clearly indicates status as a student or trainee.


11.  (New section) To be eligible for a licensure as a software
[engineer] designer an applicant shall submit to the board satisfactory
evidence that he has:

  a.  Graduated from a program in software [engineering] designing
  which has been approved for the education and training of software
  [engineers] designers' by an accrediting agency recognized by the
  Council on Post-Secondary Accreditation and the United States
  Department of Education; or

      Work experience in a current or previous position of employment
  utilizing the theory and procedures of software designing for a
  sufficient period of time as determined by the board; and

  b.  Successfully completed a written examination administered by the
  board pursuant to section 14 of this act to determine his competence
  to practice software [engineering] designing.


12.  (New section) An applicant for licensure who is a graduate of a
foreign school of software [engineering] designing shall furnish
evidence satisfactory to the board that he has:

  a.  Completed a course of study in software [engineering] designing
  which is substantially equivalent to that provided in an accredited
  program described in subsection a.  of section 11 of this act; and

  b.Successfully completed a written examination administered by the
  board pursuant to section 14 of this act.


13.  (New section) A fee shall accompany each application for licensure.
Licenses shall expire biennially on January 31 and may be renewed upon
submission of a renewal application provided by the board and a payment
of a fee.  If the renewal fee is not paid by that date, the license
shall automatically expire, but may be renewed within two years of its
expiration date upon payment to the board of a sum determined by it for
each year or part thereof during which the license was expired and an
additional restoration fee.  If a license has not been renewed within
two years of expiration, the license shall only be renewed by complying
with the provisions of section 16 of this act or successfully completing
the examination administered pursuant to section 14 of this act.

14.  (New section) The written examination required in section 11, 12,
or 13 of this act shall test the applicant's knowledge of software
[engineering] designing theory and procedures and any other subjects the
board may deem useful to test the applicant's fitness to practice
software [engineering] designing.  Examinations shall be held within the
State at least once every six months at a time and place to be
determined by the board.  The board shall give adequate written notice
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 7                       5 Aug 1991


of the examination to applicants for licensure and examination.

If an applicant fails the examination twice, the applicant may take a
third examination not less than one year nor more than three years from
the date of the applicant's initial examination.  Additional
examinations shall be in accordance with standards set by the board.

15.  (New section) The board shall issue a license to each applicant for
licensure as a software [engineer] designer who qualifies pursuant to
the provisions of this act and any rules and regulations promulgated by
the board.

16.  (New section) Upon payment to the board of a fee and the submission
a written application on forms provided by it, the board shall issue
without examination a license to a software [engineer] designer who
holds a valid license issued by another state or possession of the
United States or the District of Columbia which has standards for
licensure substantially equivalent to those of this State.

17.  (New section) Upon payment to the board of a fee and the submission
of a written application on forms provided by it, the board shall issue
a temporary license to a person who has applied for licensure pursuant
to this act who, in the judgment of the board, is eligible for
examination.  A temporary license shall be available to an applicant
upon initial application for examination.  A person holding a temporary
license may practice software [engineering] designing only under the
direct supervision of a licensed software [engineer] designer'.  A
temporary license shall expire automatically upon failure of the
licensure examination but may be renewed for an additional six-month
period, until the date of the next examination at which time it shall
automatically expire and be surrendered to the board.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Multiple Sclerosis Support Echo
by Rick Korejwo 1:3603/110

AREA: MS_SUPPORT

"A new MS Support Echo has been established on 3603/110.  The
object is to provide a place where persons with multiple
sclerosis can exchange information.  Multiple Sclerosis (MS)
is a disease of the central nervous system which affects
over 200,000 Americans.  The disease does not yet have a
known cause but is suspected of being precipitated by a
range of factors.  The symptoms vary from the most mild and
temporary neurological presentations to total and complete
disability.  It is widely held that patients with MS can
often benefit from a dialog with other patients.  This ECHO
is established to facilitate such a dialog.  The moderator
is Rick Korejwo who can provide information about the
disease and it's questionable prognosis.  A number of files
in the non-technical area are available as well as responses
to some of the specific questions.  Rick maintains an
extensive library of medical journal abstracts relating to
MS and provides researched responses as time allows.  The
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 8                       5 Aug 1991


object is to ensure that information about MS be exchanged
freely among as many person with MS as the ECHO can reach
out to.  Sysops are encouraged to make the information know
as widely as possible.  The ECHO is open to anyone concerned
with MS as a patient or care giver.  Professionals
interested in medical abstracts may wish to subscribe to
"MSonly" which provides a monthly compendium of abstracts
dealing with MS.  They are also welcome at any time in the
MS_SUPPORT echo."

Please consider carrying this echo and encourage your NEC to
request it be placed on the backbone.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Abstract: Electronic Frontier Foundation's EFFECTOR ONLINE
Tom Jennings


The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) is a group dedicated to defending
and enhancing your basic American (sorry non-USers) communication rights
and abilities in these trying times. They publish an electronic newsletter,
the EFFECTOR ONLINE, published fortnightly (how quaint).

I do not know how you obtain the EFFECTOR from FidoNet. They have expressed
an interest in the FidoNet and it's members, but I think they people to
help them get connected to non-unix systems. (hint hint)

In their own words (from EFFECTOR vol. 1 no. 1):

    The EFF has been established to help civilize the electronic
    frontier; to make it truly useful and beneficial to everyone, not
    just an elite; and to do this in a way that is in keeping with
    our society's highest traditions of the free and open flow of
    information and communication.

    EFF News will present news, information, and discussion about
    the world of computer-based communications media that constitute
    the electronic frontier. It will cover issues such as freedom
    of speech in digital media, privacy rights, censorship, standards
    of responsibility for users and operators of computer systems,
    policy issues such as the development of national information
    infrastructure, and intellectual property.


Alas, nowhere in the current issue does it say how to obtain copies! They
seem to have only INTERNET addresses (below), and no "official" FidoNet
connection, though obviously I received copy somehow. You'll need request
that they make it available in FidoNet, and maybe (oh no!) buy an IBM feces
and put up Fido/FidoNet (blatant self-promotion) or really, and FidoNet-
compatible program and talk to us thousands of supporters.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 9                       5 Aug 1991


EFF's internet address is 'eff.org'. If you have access, try sending to
effector@eff.org, or one of these people: Gerard Van der Leun
(van@eff.org), Mike Godwin (mnemonic@eff.org), Mitchell Kapor
(mkapor@eff.org), Chris Davis (ckd@eff.org), Helen Rose (hrose@eff.org)

EFF is now 501(c)3 -- ie. they can take your money as always, but now it's
tax-deductible for you. This is a good thing, and you should send them your
money. They are very directly defending YOUR rights to communicate, as well
as setting important precedent for the future, and enlightening our so-
called "representatives" as to what's what.

They also run a newsgroup devoted to discussion of issues relating to their
work, called comp.org.eff.talk. It's also gated to the FidoNet, where it's
echo name is EFF_TALK. Right now, it only goes to a handful of FidoNet
systems, but it should end up on the backbone shortly.

EFF is actively seeking members. Not sure what you get (besides the
pleasure of actively supporting them!), but I know they have a nicely
printed large-format newsletter printed on astrobrite (that nice, permanent
newsprint), maybe you get a year's sub to it. You'll have to ask 'em.

Membership fees are (annually) $20 for students and low-income, and $40 for
regular members. You can send your membership fees and/or your additional
donation to The Electronic Frontier Foundation, 155 Second Street,
Cambridge, MA 02141. Please include your name, postal address, and
electronic mail address.

                        * * * * *

What follows here is a rather lengthy abstract of the EFF's EFFECTOR
ONLINE, Volume I Number 6. In this issue:

    NetNews: The EFF Wants You!
    Computers and Academic Freedom
    I Really Need to Know I Learned from my Computer
    The Prodigy Saga Marches On...and On
    S.266: What You Can Do

THE EFF AND SENATE BILL 266
    At the EFF we continue to oppose the spirit and the letter of
those provisions of Senate Bill 266 that would require mandatory
cooperation of telecommunications providers with law enforcement.
    We believe that those individuals and organizations that support
this initiative fail to understand the implications of compromising
encryption methods in this time of emergent online technologies.
    In order to play an active role in shaping this legislation
the EFF expects to meet with the bill's sponsors in Washington
and express our fundamental opposition to any move on the part
of the Federal government that would prohibit or have a chilling
effect on the individual's right to use cryptography.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 10                      5 Aug 1991


THE CPSR ANNOUNCES A WASHINGTON WORKSHOP
ON PRIVACY, ENCRYPTION, AND TELECOMMUNICATIONS POLICY
     Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility, the
Electronic Frontier Foundation, RSA are sponsoring a one-day
workshop in Washington, D.C. on June 10.
     This workshop will bring together a broad coalition of
professionals in the computer and telecommunications fields,
as well as experts in cutting-edge cryptography, privacy
advocates, and civil liberties protectors. It will feature
a congressional briefing on current federal policy initiatives
including S.266 and export restrictions.
     The workshop will be followed at 2:00 by a press conference
and the National Press Club (14th & Pennsylvania Avenue N.W.). All
interested parties are invited to attend the press conference.

                -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

EFF DOCUMENT FILES NOW AVAILABLE
    THE DOCUMENT CASE -- a collection of briefs, judgments
white papers, rulings, and references of moment to the issues
of law and order on The Electronic Frontier--is now available via
FTP at eff.org. This represents our current and expanding collection
of legal papers of interest to attorneys and the net at large. It
was created and maintained by Staff Counsel Mike Godwin
(mnemonic@eff.org). For details on how to access this archive
please contact ftphelp@eff.org.
   To add to the archive, send mail to Michael Godwin (mnemonic@eff.org).

               -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

COMPUTERS AND ACADEMIC FREEDOM GROUPS NOW AT EFF.ORG
    CAF discusses such questions as : How should general principles
of academic freedom (such as freedom of expression, freedom to read,
due process, and privacy) be applied to university computers and
networks? How are these principles actually being applied? How can the
principles of academic freedom as applied to computers and networks be
defended?
    The EFF has given the discussion a home on the eff.org machine.
As of April 23, less than two week after its creation, the list has
230 members in four countries.
    There are three versions of the mailing list:
comp-academic-freedom-talk
        - you'll received dozens of e-mail notes every day.
comp-academic-freedom-batch
        - about once a day, you'll receive a compilation of the day's
notes.
comp-academic-freedom-news
        - about once a week you'll receive a compilation of the best
          notes of the week. (I play the editor for this one).
    To join a version of the list, send mail to listserv@eff.org.
Include the line "add <name-of-version>". (Other commands are "delete
<name-of-version>" and "help").
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 11                      5 Aug 1991


    In any case, after you join the list you can send e-mail to the
LIST BY addressing it to caf-talk@eff.org.
    These mailing lists are also available as the USENET alt groups
'alt.comp.acad-freedom.talk' and 'alt.comp.acad-freedom.news'.

              -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

                  the sand remembers
           once there was beach and sunshine
                   but chip is warm too

               -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

    The Need for a Discussion of Computers and Academic Freedom
              by Carl Kadie (kadie@eff.org)

   When my grandmother attended the University of Illinois fifty-five
years ago, academic freedom meant the right to speak up in class, to
created student organizations, to listen to controversial speakers, to
read "dangerous" books in the library, and to be protected from random
searches of your dorm room.
   Today these rights are guaranteed by most universities. These days,
however, my academic life very different from my grandmother's. Her
academic life was centered on the classroom and the student union.
Mine centers on the computer and the computer network. In the new
academia, my academic freedom is much less secure.
   The suppression of academic freedom on computers is common. At least
once a month, someone posts on plea on Usenet for help. The most
common complaint is that a newsgroup has been banned because of its
content (usually alt.sex). In January, a sysadmin at the University of
Wisconsin didn't ban any newsgroups directly. Instead, he reduced the
newsgroup expiration time so that reading groups such as alt.sex is
almost impossible. Last month, a sysadmin at Case Western killed
a note that a student had posted to a local newsgroup. The sysadmin
said the information in the note could be misused. In other cases,
university employees may be reading e-mail or looking through user
files. This may happen with or without some prior notice that e-mail
and files are fair game.
   In many of these cases the legality of the suppression is unclear. It
may depend on user expectation, prior announcements, and whether the
university is public or private.
   The legality is, however, irrelevant. The duty of the University is
not to suppress everything it legally can; rather it is to support the
free and open investigation and expression of ideas. This is the ideal
of academic freedom. In this role, the University acts a model of how
the wider world should be. (In the world of computers, universities are
perhaps the most important model of how things should be).
   If you are interested in discussing this issues, or if you have
first-hand experience with academic suppression on computers or
networks, please join the mailing list.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 12                      5 Aug 1991


            -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

               one with nintendo
               halcyon symbiosis
             hand thinks for itself

            -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

        All I Really Need to Know I Learned from My Computer

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I
learned right here in the CAEN labs. Illumination was not at the top of the
graduate school mountain, but right there in front of the computer
monitors. These are the things I learned. Everything you need to know is
here somewhere:

        1. Share all your executables.
        2. Pay for your shareware.
        3. Don't hit the computer.
        4. Back up files after you have found them.
        5. Clean up your own messy desktop.
        6. Don't copy software that is not yours.
        7. Make a smiley when you send someone a nasty message.
        8. Wash your hands before you type.
        9. Flush your buffers.
        10. M&Ms and a cold can of Coke are good for you.
        11. Live a student's life--learn some and think some and
            MacDraw and IPaint and Readnews and play Tetris and hack
            every day some.
        12. Take a break every two hours from staring at the terminal.
        13. When you go out in the world, watch out for network traffic,
            hold connections and stick together.
        14. Be aware of wonder. Remember the little bytes in the chip:
            The code goes in and the graphics come out and nobody
            really knows how or why, but computers are all like that.
        15. Pets and Lisas and DN350s and even the little bytes in the
            chip all die. So do we.
        16. And then remember the Computer Reference Manuals and the
            first command you learned--the biggest command of all--Quit.

                                by Ann Gordon (anng@caen.engin.umich.edu)

                 -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-

                       samurai fighter
               keyboard and mouse are his sword
                       digital battles

                 -==--==--==-<>-==--==--==-


FidoNews 8-31                  Page 13                      5 Aug 1991


              THE PRODIGY SAGA CONTINUED....REDUX....ENCORE....

[Prodigy continued to be a main subject of conversation on the net over
the past two weeks. Here is a selection of one exchange of views on
comp.org.eff.talk.]
--
From: brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton)

In article <14193.281F5781@fidogate.FIDONET.ORG>
Tom.Jennings@f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Tom Jennings) writes:
>It's easy to support free-speech issues on "safe" subjects
>-- the real test is when it is an unpopular one, or even one
>you don't agree with.

I agree with this 100%. It's one of the strongest parts of my personal
philosophy.

But this is not a free-speech issue, so it is not relevant.

People do not understand that freedom of the press (and Prodigy is press)
has two very important components:
     a) Nobody can tell you what not to print (freedom from censorship)
     b) Nobody can tell you what *to* print. (editorial control)

Both are important. To insist that Prodigy allow gay/lesbian discussion
against their will is not much different from forbidding them from having
gay/lesbian discussion if they want it.

Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of the press. That's no
law in *either* direction.

--

From: lee@wang.com (Lee Story)
In-Reply-To: brad@looking.on.ca's message of 4 May 91

Well sorry, Brad, but it's not clear to many of us that a service like
Prodigy is self-evidently "press", as you seem to claim. In the part
of the service which presents (publishes) advertisements (mostly!) and
Prodigy-initiated or Prodigy-contracted informative articles (rarely),
they would seem to deserve the same protections offered to the print
and broadcast media.

But in their provision of email service they would seem to be merely a
by-subscription carrier, and their unpleasant lack of interfaces to
other carriers does not disguise that fact. I don't see why the same
protections offered to mail and telephone subscribers shouldn't apply.
And I don't see why bulletin boards to which subscribers are welcome to
contribute shouldn't be considered either (1) simply useful extensions
of email, or (2) publishing ventures, but ones in which the subscribers
are the publishers and Prodigy remains the carrier.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 14                      5 Aug 1991


Isn't some scheme like this simple and fair enough to be worth
codifying as law, and the added marketability of email and bulletin
boards sufficient to encourage commercial services to provide them
even if they aren't allowed to control the contents?

(By the way, I think the trashy, ad-oriented nature of Prodigy has
encouraged many of us to criticize them for practices that would
raise few complaints on GEnie, CIS, etc. They may be doing us a
real service.)
--
From: brad@looking.on.ca (Brad Templeton)

I have seen no proof of Prodigy doing anything but charge for their E-mail.
They are not press, but an E-mail provider, when it comes to E-mail.

But in all the public areas of the system, they are indeed press, and
have explicitly said and acted in such a fashion at all times as far as I
can tell. I am not sure how other people have gotten any other impression.

Prodigy screens everything posted in the public areas. It's 100% edited.
How can you consider them anything but press?
--
[The discussion continues in comp.org.eff.talk.]

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Fredric L. Rice
1:102/901.0

APL anyone?  I'm looking to find APL programmers who would like
to consider the creation of an APL Echo Conference.  Doubtless
there will be few of us yet those APL programmers in the Fido
Network may find solace in knowing that they are not the only
APL programmer in the network.

We'll exchange APL workspaces and generally discuss the
language. I. P. Sharps APL for the PC will no doubt dominate
the conference though all APL packages should be discussed and
work spaces exchanged.

If you're an APL programmer and might like to contribute to the
conference, please let me know.

If you are already running the I. P. Sharp APL package, you
might be interested in the WSPRINT utilities which allow you to
export your APL workspace to a DOS file for translation and
eventual printing to either a LaserJet or to a C. Itoh printer.
More printers will be added as I acquire time. If this utility
package sounds interesting, it comes with the C source code
(which is well documented) from my system as WSPRINT.LZH.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 15                      5 Aug 1991


Quick run-down: You run 'wsprint' after copying it into your
  work space to print which creates a WSPRINT.OUT DOS file. The
  WSPRINT.EXE program converts it into a file you can view with
  a text editor. LASERAPL sends the output file APL.OUT to a
  LaserJet and APLOUT sends it to a C. Itoh.

The ShareWare version of the I. P. Sharp APL package can be
downloaded from my system as SAPLPC-1.LZH and SAPLPC-2.LZH or
from where I got them at 1:102/770 except, I believe, with the
.ARJ extension. This package is perfect for the beginner and
the novice yet it contains no documentation. I'll be creating
a short document file, complete with keyboard lay-out, and
will be making it available as soon as it's finished. This
puppy even supports nested arrays!

The commercial version of the Sharp APL package has been
ordered and as soon as I receive it and examine the
documentation (which is over 800 pages of references and
examples of APL programming) I'll make a review of the package.
I will also make some mention of the helpfulness of the
customer support people I've already talked with at the company
which provides this package. Iverson Software in Canada was
damn helpful.

As a side note, I should add that my intentions are to finish a
full-screen editor for the I. P. Sharp APL package which will
work with APLI-PC as well as APLI-386 (real-mode extended). It
will allow the exporting of an APL workspace to DOS, the full-
screen editing of same, and then the import of the edited work-
space. That package will be called APL-EDIT.LZH when it is
finished and the C source code will be included.

Fredric
1:102/901.0



----------------------------------------------------------------------


by Steve Hayes
Sysop of 5:7101/20

About twenty five years ago Marshall McLuhan achieved notoriety
with his observation that the medium of communication IS the mes-
sage - that our lives are shaped more by the way in which we com-
municate than by the content of what is communicated. You don't
have to agree with everything McLuhan said to see that there is
something in it.

Networks like Fidonet, Usenet and others allow people to hear the
opinions of people they might never have met face to face. They
also allow people to make contact with others who share a spe-
cialized interest in a way not normally possible. So in Fidonet
we can either broaden our horizons, or retreat into our special-
izations, or do both.
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 16                      5 Aug 1991


This leads to the problem of information overload. We can't all
communicate on every subject with everyone. The result is that
there are more and more specialized echoes, and complaints that
the range of material published in Fidonews is too wide to be
useful. In Fidonews 8-30 there was an appeal - relegated to the
"Rants and flames" section - for Fidonews to be confined to the
medium, rather than the message. I think it was a pity to put it
in that section, as it is a matter that may need to be discussed.
Publishing anything in Fidonews may have been OK when it was a
small network, but some of the topics would interest only a small
proportion of Fidonet users.

On the other hand, when networking was new, there was more need
to discuss the medium, and for those who maintain the network,
there is still such a need. If we only used telephones to talk
about the telephone system, there would be far fewer telephones
in the world than there are now. So I can't make up my mind
whether non-technical articles in Fidonews are a good idea.

As an Orthodox Christian, I find it interesting, though odd, to
discuss Christianity and Satanism with people who profess to be
Satanists. Where else does one get a chance to do something like
that? But I recognize that people who are interested in cookery,
dog-breeding, nuclear physics, or sending letters to troops in
Saudi-Arabia might find such discussions incredibly boring and
out of place in Fidonews.

I could, of course, maintain that all those other things, while
interesting to those who find them interesting, are not really of
vital importance. The Orthodox Christian faith (I can't speak for
Satanists at this point) is concerned with the whole meaning and
purpose of life, and I believe that. I'm not, however, going to
get other people to see that by ranting and flaming, or by trying
to force the Word on the world by hook or by crook.

Is there an echo for Christians and Satanists to debate? Should
there be? Or should they debate in Fidonews, for lack of any
other suitable forum? I'm not trying to push one course of action
or the other, I'm just trying to clarify the issues.

But I do have a couple of questions and requests. I would like to
know if there are any international Christian echoes on Fidonet
that can be used to discuss anything at all related to the Chris-
tian faith, without insisting on any one doctrinal line. And then
I would also like to know if there are any BBSs run by Orthodox
Christians connected to Fidonet. If there are, I would like to
hear from the Sysops about the possibility of starting an
Orthodox Christian echo. Please netmail me at one of the follow-
ing addresses:

Steve Hayes of 5:7101/20
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 17                      5 Aug 1991


            or 5:7101/22.5

Internet: Steve.Hayes@f20.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
          Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org
----------------------------------------------------------------------



IS THE NODELIST TOO LONG?
by Richard Bash - 161/357; Castro Valley, California


In FIDO829.NWS (07/22/91) I wrote an article entitled "Nodelist
Problems and Suggestions." The basic theme was that, in my view, the
Fido Nodelist had grown far too large (NODELIST.207 = 996065 bytes). I
pointed out that about half of the nodelist was taken up by United
States listings. I suggested that one rather handy solution for this
problem was to create two nodelists: put the United States in one and
the rest of the world in the other. I also added that the number of
Canadian nodes had grown to a sufficient number to justify their own
zone number. At that point the netmail started coming in replying to
that article. This article shares with you the gist of those replies.

To start with, the first reply came from a SysOp in North Carolina who
expressed displeasure with the article:

          One _BASIC_ problem with your idea - sometmes a
          SysOp may wish to send DIRECT inter-zone mail
          without routing through zonegates. Another SysOp on
          the potential receiving end sets his/her mailer in
          `CurMudgeon' mode.

Now I expected weird replies but this was a bit confusing. The author
(out of respect for the various authors of replies, I am keeping them
anonymous since they sent me netmail; their replies ARE on file and
will remain so for awhile) seems to be trying to tell me that if he
wants to send a message direct to a SysOp outside the United States
that my plan would not allow him to do so and would force him to use
zone gates. That is not correct at all.

As I stated in my original letter in FidoNews, the vast majority of the
SysOps in the United States have no need for a listing of nodes outside
the United States. Additionally, very few non-U.S. nodes have need for
a listing of U.S. nodes. However, if my plan were adopted and two
separate nodelists created, there would be nothing to prevent the
author of the reply from using both of the nodelists. Meanwhile the
rest of the vast majority of nodes (throughout the world) would not
need to take up valuable disk space with this mammoth nodelist.

A reply came in from Sweden that was reasonably well thought out. That
gentleman stated:

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 18                      5 Aug 1991


          Therefore, to obtain utilities such as off-line
          messager readers, on- line games, et cetera et
          cetera, Swedish people DO need the nodes of Zone 1,
          or if you prefer, the US. I can speak only for
          myself, but I imagine this goes for lots of other
          Europeans, too.

          On the other hand, I can understand perfectly well
          why US sysops have no use whatsoever for Swedish
          node numbers :-)

Again, I submit that this author is also not understanding that he CAN
have a worldwide nodelist; it'll just be in two parts and he can merge
them into the old, familiar one.

This was followed by a reply from an unlisted point in Canada. I did
not expect ANY Canadian node to agree with me, since I am in favor of
putting all Canadian nodes in a non-U.S. listing. However, of all the
replies I received from canada, this chap made sense:

          I think you underestimate the amount of
          cross-border traffic. Probably most Canadian nodes
          sometimes call U.S. nodes; a lot of U.S. nodes like
          the flexibility of being able to call outside the
          country, and quite a few people from other zones
          frequently call the U.S. With a split nodelist,
          this would mean that all of these people would be
          forced to get both halves, and they wouldn't be any
          better off at all.

          My suggestion for an improvement? Decentralize the
          nodelist. Right now, I can send netmail anywhere in
          Fidonet by sending it to a net host (that's how
          this message is getting to you, if it gets there).
          I have no need for any local nodes in any but two
          or three nets, and in fact I prune most of them out
          of my copy of the nodelist. I'd be happy if the
          pruning took place upstream: let the main nodelist
          contain *only* hosts, independents, and gateways.
          This would immediately shrink it under 50K, even
          less ZIP'd.

To begin with, the amount of the traffic involved is inconsequential to
the argument I put forth. The comment "that all of these people would
be forced to get both halves, and they wouldn't be any better off at
all" overlooks the fact that while those relatively few nodes would be
no better off, the vast majority of both U.S. and non-U.S. nodes would
be. I regret that I do not understand the "decentralizing" argument.

Yet another Canadian node sent me a reply but one that brought out some
other points worth sharing:

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 19                      5 Aug 1991


          I just wanted to let you know that I totally
          disagree with your article in Fidonews, especially
          the part about splitting off the Canadian nodes
          from the U.S. nodes. We have the same telephone
          dialing plan, at least one Fidonet region
          encompasses nodes in both countries, and if you
          have seen the political situation in Canada, it's
          not too farfetched to postulate that musch of what
          is now Canada (definitely EXCLUDING Quebec) may be
          part of the U.S. someday. Then there's also the
          little matter of Alaska, which effectively places
          Canada between parts of the United States. Of all
          the proposals for reducing the size of the
          nodelist, this is the one I disagree with the most.

          You are just another one of those trying to find a
          political soultion to a technical problem. I do not
          believe the soultion is to split up or reduce the
          size of the nodelist, but rather to find a way to
          transmit this same information in a more compact
          form. By the way, what difference does it make
          whether a nodelist fits on a 360K diskette? Most
          people have larger floppies and for those who
          don't, it would be very easy to split and
          reconstruct the nodelist files using existing
          utilities... this assumes that someone even has a
          need to put a nodelist on a 360K floppy, and I
          don't know of anyone who has that need!

Well, I cannot comment on the likelihood or plausibility of Canada
being annexed by the U.S. (wasn't that what the War of 1812 was about?
The U.S. lost if annexation was their goal) but the location of Alaska
(and Hawaii) do not rebut my argument. His next paragraph about trying
to find a "political solution" is off the mark as well, unless
"political" also means "practical." As to his comments about not
knowing anyone who has 360K floppies, I submit that I do as does the
following author from California:

          By the way, I do not have high density drives on my
          BBS computer and it is indeed annoying that the
          zipped nodelist will no longer fit on a floppy. I
          believe that if the nodelist is divided and
          trimmed, each zone (not just zone 1) should have a
          separate list that can be comfortably appended to
          other zone lists. The principle drawback to this
          system is the additional housekeeping hassle for
          the *Cs. As an NC for a small net here in
          California, I would have to customize my nodelist
          distribution for sysops with a variety of
          communication needs. I believe that many other
          larger nets would have a much more complex pattern
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 20                      5 Aug 1991


          of "zone lists" required by various sysops. Anyway,
          thanks for expressing your thoughts.

The above gentleman also does point out that easily appending the
nodelists will be necessary and I am convinced that in this vast
audience we call FidoNet there lives and breathes some programmer who
can do that quite handily.

Finally we hear from a SysOp in Texas, who seems to like what I
proposed:

          I would just like to say BRAVO!!! I read your piece
          in the FidoNews Letter about FidoNet needing a U.S.
          Nodelist. I totally agree with your statements. I
          hope that someone with authority within the FidoNet
          organization read that and will take steps to
          implement it.

Something else worth considering is eliminating the entries marked
"Down." If you're down, you're out! When you get back up, your NC will
gladly reinstate you in the nodelist. The reason for this argument is
that many of the nodes marked "Down" stayed marked that way for lengthy
periods. So, simply dropping them out of the nodelist until they are
ready to resume normal operation would remove 175 entries from
NODELIST.207.

Another point to consider is the removal from the nodelist of those
nodes designated "Pvt." There are 475 of them in NODELIST.207. I ask
that you consider this: if a SysOp wishes to be a participant in
FidoNet that he/she be a full participant. That would require a phone
listing, etc. One can always use an alias if one's paranoia is higher
than mine (not likely).

In conclusion, I again state that the vast majority of nodes throughout
the world (including the U.S.) would benefit from two nodelists: one
for the U.S. and one for the rest of the world. Furthermore, merging
these two lists is a minor programming effort that, once some
programmer writes the routine, would occur automatically through the
use of a batch file. Removal of "Down" and "Pvt" listing would reduce
the nodelist by another 2% and every little bit helps. Canada needs a
separate Zone number. The number of Canadian nodes has grown to the
point where it is justified. This latter point in no way diminishes the
great respect I have for America's Canadian neighbors; they are good
and loyal friends (which has nothing to doing with the argument, so let
us set emotion aside).

There are relatively few nodes throughout the world and the United
States who benefit from having a nodelist in its present form. Those
who do will lose no benefit if the nodelist were split; they would
simply recombine it. Let the effort for recombining the nodelist fall
on the shoulders of those who need that facility. The vast majority of
Fido nodes do not need a combined nodelist with every node from
Australia to Zimbabwe listed in it.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 21                      5 Aug 1991


I again urge the authorities within the FidoNet power structure to
seriously consider this proposal and to move forthrightly and split the
nodelist. Thank you for your attention. Your constructive ideas are
welcome via netmail, letter or as follow-up articles in FidoNews. I
would urge those who would reply to please use a spelling checker. It
would raise my opinion of the author of such replies and is a matter of
courtesy.



Respectfully submitted,



Richard Bash - 1:161/357
Combat Arms BBS SysOp
2869 Grove Way
Castro Valley, CA 94546
Voice: (415) 538-6544
BBS:   (415) 537-1777

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Conforming to the Lowest Common Denominator

Jeff Wormsley
FidonNet 1:362/127
US MAIL : 320 Jackson Rd, Hixson, TN 37343

  It has been the policy of FidoNet from the start for all systems
to conform to the lowest common denominator, namely all software
must be able to perform the functions of the most primitive
versions, regardless of how antiquated they are. In many instances,
this is indeed the best way to go. However, in this sysop's opinion,
there is at least one area where this is not the best possible
solution. That area is the exclusion of high order ASCII in
messages, namely the IBM graphics character set and ANSI screen
codes.

  At present, there seems to be no problems with any system actually
recieving these codes. The problem lies in their not being able to
view/interpret them properly. For instance, the Mac, Amiga, ect have
entirely different sets of characters for the >127 ASCII values.
But, these systems are in the vast minority. Why should the rest of
us be forced to use ASCII only, just because these systems can't
handle the ANSI/IBM extended character set? It would seem to be
better to place the burden of filtering/converting these codes on
the minority who cannot support them, rather than tie down the
majority. Or at least allow echoes to use these codes, and have them
marked as such in the echo list, so that systems which cannot
support them will know either not to carry them, or to be sure to
filter those codes out before importing those messages into their
message bases.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 22                      5 Aug 1991


  Other mail network systems such as Spitfire and WWIV have the
capabilities of sending graphics and color, why should FidoNet cling
to the outdated ASCII codes? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing
against other systems, as a matter of fact I helped get an ATARI ST
system into the net. However, it seems that with the technology
available, conferences with this ability should exist as a part of
FidoNet. I for one would enjoy seeing conferences such as ANSI-ART,
ATARI-VT52, C=COLOR, and AMIGA-GRAFIX available. If I can't display
the information in one of these echoes, then I would hope to have
sense enough not to request it. For general echoes, it should not be
hard to write filter/conversion routines to remove/reformat these
messages into a readable format on machines incapable of handling
these codes. Lets place the burden on those systems that can't,
rather than on those that can.

  Conforming to the lowest common denominator has its places, but by
extending the concept too far, it is my opinion we are stifling the
state of the art.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 23                      5 Aug 1991


======================================================================
                           RANTS AND FLAMES
======================================================================

            _(*#$_(*@#(*     (*^$+)#(%&+|      #$)%(&*#_$   @_#(  @$
       ^@#+)(#&%$*+)$%&*+$*%&#@(@#_|)*%|)#%&)#*%&+(@#&*_+(@#*^&@###
   *&#_($*&#$_(*#&$_(#*$&$ _(#$*#$+)#($&*+#)$            &#+$*&#
  ()*&#$_(&^#$_(#*$_#($^&#_$(^&#_$(&^#$_(&#^  damn right   _(#^&$_(#^&
 $*&#$_+(*             #)$&(%($%+)($%*+$)%($*   it's ugly   _#&%^#  &
#($_*#$_   FidoNet        (*$&%_@#_(*&@#_(@*#&_           @#_(*&@#_(*
)*&#$           Flames        *^$+)#(%  (not for the timid) @_#(
(*#$_(*^@#+)             and     #_|)*%         &+(@#&*_+(@#*^&@###
(#$*&#_($*&#$_(*#&$_(#*                   Rants    *&+#$*&#+$*&#
   )*&#$_(a regular feature)^&#_$(&^#$_              $^&#$_(#^
        (*^#$_*#^&$)*#&$^%)#*$&^_#($*^&#_($   Section   #&%^_
       _(*#&$_(#*   #($*&   #$*   _(*&@#_(@*#           *&@#_(*&
                                        )&*+_)*&+)*&+))&*(*&
                                               (*&_(*&_(*&



----------------------------------------------------------------------


IT IS TIME FOR CONGRESS TO ACT
by John & Gail Feilke, sysops, JACURUTU
706 Bonview Avenue
Lincolnton, North Carolina 28092-2008
Fido # 1:379/103
JACURUTU # (704)732-1852

Our fellow sysops, the week of August 10-18, 1991 is
scheduled to be The Seventh National UFO Information Week. It
is during this time that we here at JACURUTU will be sending
out an informational file packet named, OPGOVUFO.ZIP to many
BBSs in the U.S. As well as the ten top newspapers in the U.S.

In this file packet will be 10 of the best un-explained UFO
cases in UFOlogy, the letter being sent to the editors of the
newspapers, and the most important facet of this operation: a
form letter to be sent to the Congressmen/women & Senators in
Washington, D.C. calling for a Congressional Investigation
into the UFO Enigma in general and the Roswell crash case in
particular.

UFOlogists in general believe that the time has come for such
investigations, as new information comes to light on the
Roswell crash in 1947 in Roswell, New Mexico.  Roswell as you
may or may not know is where the remains of two craft of
unknown (alien) origin were found, as well as the remains of
the crew (alien bodies) this was reported as a Flying Saucer
on the world news tickers and then hushed up as a weather
balloon. Enough witnesses have surfaced in this event to
state the culpability of the U.S. Government in the cover-up.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 24                      5 Aug 1991


This is our "smoking-gun!"

With all the recent reports of "triangular-shaped" aircraft
being sighted, not only here in the U.S. but world-wide, the
best case of this was reported over the skies of Belgium, by
the Belgium government, and was tracked by F-16 fighters (this
being reported on NBC's "Unsolved Mysteries") who engaged and
got radar-lock, only to have ground based radar watch the
objects leave the area at over 7,000 mph, pulling an estimated
60 g's!  Russia has reported the same objects, as well as
Portugal, England, Sweden, Australia, and many, many more
countries.

With the continuing cycle of "crop-circles" worldwide as well,
people coming forth with "abduction" cases. We all believe it
is past time for "serious" investigations to start in this
country.  Other countries are way ahead of us in "public"
government investigations. France, Canada, and Japan come to
the forefront. Belgium has professional UFO Investigators on
the payroll, paid for by the taxes of their citizens.  Are we
any less than they are, or does the U.S. government have
something to hide???

In closing, all we are asking you, the sysops of FIDONET in
the U.S. to do, is make this file available to your users. The
only way we can get the Congress to act is with the "PEOPLE"
sending them this form letter. With enough people asking their
representatives to act on this, we can finally get to the
bottom of " The UFO Enigma"!

I would now like to thank you all for reading this and
hopefully acting on it. The file OPGOVUFO.ZIP is available
for FREQing from 1:379/103. Gail and myself would also like
to thank the folks at FIDONET for letting us put this up.

Many, many thanks to you all!!!

John & Gail Feilke - JACURUTU
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Glenn Caleval
FidoNet 1:140/72

Cens-or Nonsense

The International Journal of Art History recently has been
accused of engaging in censorship and denying free speech. It
turns out that the Journal wants to publish only articles
directly related to Art History. Some under-represented citizen
named Art sent in a manuscript detailing his personal history
and the Journal outright refused to publish it.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 25                      5 Aug 1991


Amazing how people publishing a communications vehicle for a
particular interest have the audacity to think they can only
publish material relevant to that interest. Obviously the
argument that the majority who pay the bill should have the
primary voice over the content of what they pay for is
capitalist tripe designed to oppress the weak, the poor, the
devout, the good/satanic folk who have no means to get their
message out except by using special interest media such as the
Journal.

As it is, Art is safe because he can send his 600 page
manuscript to FidoNews and be assured of his rights to free
speech at others' expense.

Go figure.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 26                      5 Aug 1991


======================================================================
                             CLASSIFIEDS
======================================================================

ADVERTISEMENT POLICY: Submissions must be 20 lines or less each,
maximum two ads per advertiser, 70 characters per line maximum. No
control codes except CR and LF. (Refer to contact info at the end of
this newsletter for details.)

Please notify us if you have any trouble with an advertiser. FidoNews
does not endorse any products or services advertised here.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 27                      5 Aug 1991


======================================================================
                               NOTICES
======================================================================


Christopher Baker
Rights On! 1:374/14

                      A_THEIST Echo Available


A_theism means free of religion in the way a_political means
free of politics or a_sexual means free of sex
characteristics or drives.

With that in mind and ever cognizant of the continued
pressure of religion to intrude itself into our government
and its operations, the A_THEIST Echo is provided to inform
and alarm and hopefully wake up the sleeping and too long
silent majority to the peril on our doorstep.

It is now a Zone 1 Backbone Echo Hosted and Moderated
by Rights On! [1:374/14] and Christopher Baker [card
carrying member of American Atheists, Inc.]. Initial links
will be provided from this system to any and all who request
same. Links are now available from: 1:109/120; 1:114/15;
1:152/20; 1:151/606; 1:112/2020; and via PODS. More links
are noted in the current ELIST. Direct links may be broken
as soon as the Backbone distribution is fully realized.

The Echo is open to anyone who can discuss, without
proselytizing, the extreme desirability of maintaining the
absolute separation of State and church in this country as
provided for in our Constitution.

A sample of the first few messages and the statement of
purpose of the Echo is available as A_THEIST.ZIP from this
system anytime except 0100-0130 and 0500-0800 ET [USR HST
ds online] if you wish to get an idea of whether to commit
disk space to the Echo. An archive of the past traffic from
the Echo is also available as A_ECHO1.ZIP.

Backbone status has been approved. Ask your Backbone
connection to get it for you!

I hope you will join us or ask your Sysop to request a link
via Netmail to 1:374/14.

TTFN.
Chris

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 28                      5 Aug 1991


----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Interrupt Stack


15 Aug 1991
 8 Sep 1991
 7 Oct 1991
Area code 415 fragments. Alameda and Contra Costa Counties will begin
using area code 510. This includes Oakland, Concord, Berkeley and
Hayward. San Francisco, San Mateo, Marin, parts of Santa Clara County,
and the San Francisco Bay Islands will retain area code 415.

 1 Nov 1991
Area code 301 will split. Area code 410 will consist of the
northeastern part of Maryland, as well as the eastern shore. This will
include Baltimore and the surrounding area. Area 301 will include
southern and western parts of the state, including the areas around
Washington DC. Area 410 phones will answer to calls to area 301 until
November, 1992.

 1 Feb 1992
Area code 213 fragments. Western, coastal, southern and eastern
portions of Los Angeles County will begin using area code 310. This
includes Los Angeles International Airport, West Los Angeles, San
Pedro and Whittier. Downtown Los Angeles and surrounding communities
(such as Hollywood and Montebello) will retain area code 213.

 1 Dec 1993
Tenth anniversary of Fido Version 1 release.

 5 Jun 1997
David Dodell's 40th Birthday


If you have something which you would like to see on this calendar,
please send a message to FidoNet node 1:1/1.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


New Echo Conference: POWER
by Tom Rieger
1:260/242

Announcing the formation of the POWER conference. POWER is a FidoNet
echo for the operators/maintainers of power, steam and refrigeration
plants.

Moderator: Tom Rieger - a stationary engineer with 12 years working
experience on nuclear and conventional marine propulsion plants,
oil/gas and solid fuel steam generating plants and ammonia
refrigeration systems.

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 29                      5 Aug 1991


Topics to include plant operations, plant maintenance, plant safety,
solid fuel firing, co-generation, water treatment, ash handling,
emissions reduction, innovations, problem solving... Anything related
to the power/refrigeration industry.

Private distribution until the conference can be taken to regional
and eventually backbone status. Contact the moderator for link-up
info via the following: FidoNet NetMail to 1:260/242 or Internet mail
to tom_rieger@rochgte.fidonet.org.



----------------------------------------------------------------------


Solidarity Day '91 in Washington, D.C.
by Tom Rieger
1:260/242 - tom_rieger@rochgte.fidonet.org

An estimated tens of thousands of trade unionists will join in a
mass demonstration on The Mall in Washington D.C. on August 31, 1991
to give voice to organized labor's concerns on issues affecting
working Americans and workers everywhere.

Solidarity Day '91 will focus on bringing attention to three major
goals of the trade union movement: Health care reform, a ban on the
"permanent replacement" of strikers and freedom of association at
home and abroad.

Workers and their families will be arriving in Washington by car,
plane, train and bus to take part in the demonstration, which will
feature numerous guest speakers and a rally on The Mall.

The day-long event comes nearly 10 years since labor staged
Solidarity Day I in the nation's capitol in 1981 and hundreds of
thousands of trade unionists, their families and friends rallied to
let their feelings be known.

For further information on the event, union members and locals should
contact their National/International headquarters.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 30                      5 Aug 1991


======================================================================
                           LATEST VERSIONS
======================================================================

Latest Greatest Software Versions
08/01/91

                         MS-DOS Systems
                         --------------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Utilities
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
DMG             2.93     BinkleyTerm     2.40     ARCAsim         2.30
Fido/FidoNet   12.21+    D'Bridge        1.30     ARCmail         2.07
Genesis Deluxe   3.1*    Dutchie        2.90c     ConfMail        4.00
GSBBS           3.02     FrontDoor       2.00     Crossnet         1.5
Kitten          2.16     InterMail       2.01*    DOMAIN          1.42
Lynx            1.30     PRENM           1.47     EEngine         0.30*
Maximus         1.02     SEAdog          4.60*    EMM             2.02
Opus            1.70+*   TIMS       1.0(Mod8)     4Dog/4DMatrix   1.18
PCBoard        14.5a                              FNPGate         2.70
Phoenix          1.3                              Gmail           2.05
QuickBBS        2.66                              GROUP           2.16
RBBS           17.3b     NodeList Utilities       GUS             1.30
RBBSmail       17.3b     Name         Version     HeadEdit        1.18
RemoteAccess    1.01     --------------------     IMAIL           1.10
SLBBS          2.15b*    EditNL          4.00     InterPCB        1.31
Socrates        1.10     MakeNL          2.31     MSG              4.1
SuperBBS        1.10     Parselst        1.30     MSGED           2.06
TAG             2.5g     Prune           1.40     MsgMstr         1.21*
TBBS             2.1     SysNL           3.14     MSGTOSS          1.3
TComm/TCommNet   3.4     XlatList        2.90     Oliver          1.0a
Telegard         2.5     XlaxDiff        2.51*    PolyXarc        2.1a*
TPBoard          6.1     XlaxNode        2.51*    QM               1.0
Wildcat!        2.55                              QSort           4.04
WWIV            4.12                              ScanToss        1.28
XBBS            1.17                              Sirius          1.0x
                                                  SLMAIL          1.36
                                                  StarLink        1.01
Compression                                       TagMail         2.41
Utilities                                         TCOMMail         2.2
Name         Version                              Telemail        1.27
--------------------                              TMail           1.21
ARC             7.00                              TPBNetEd         3.2
ARJ             2.10                              Tosscan         1.00
HYPER           2.50                              UFGATE          1.03
LHA             2.12                              XRS             4.50*
LHARC          1.13c                              XST             2.3e
PAK             2.51                              ZmailH         1.16a*
PKPak           3.61
PKZip           1.10

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 31                      5 Aug 1991


                         OS/2 Systems
                         ------------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Utilities
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
Maximus-CBCS    1.02     BinkleyTerm     2.40     ARC2            6.00
                                                  ConfMail        4.00
                                                  EchoStat         6.0
                                                  LH2             0.50
                                                  MsgEd           2.06
                                                  MsgLink         1.0c
                                                  MsgNum          4.14
                                                  oMMM            1.52
                                                  Omail            3.1
                                                  Parselst        1.32
                                                  PKZip           1.02
                                                  PolyXarc        2.1a*
                                                  QSort            2.1
                                                  Raid             1.0
                                                  Remapper         1.2
                                                  Tick             2.0
                                                  VPurge          2.07


                         Xenix/Unix 386
                         --------------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Utilities
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
                         BinkleyTerm    2.32b     ARC             5.21
                                                  C-LHARC         1.00
                                                  MsgEd           2.06
 |Contact:  Jon Hogan-Duran 3:711/909,|           MSGLNK          1.01
 |Willy Paine 1:343/12 or Eddy van Loo|           oMMM            1.42
 |2:285/406                           |           Omail           1.00
                                                  Parselst        1.32
                                                  Unzip           3.10
                                                  Vpurge          4.08
                                                  Zoo             2.01


                         Apple II
                         --------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Utilities
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
DDBBS +          7.4*    Fruity Dog       2.0*    deARC2e          2.1
GBBS Pro         2.1                              ProSel          8.69*
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 32                      5 Aug 1991


                                                  ShrinkIt        3.23
                                                  ShrinkIt GS     1.04


                         Apple CP/M
                         ----------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Utilities
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
Daisy             2j     Daisy Mailer    0.38     Filer            2-D
                                                  MsgUtil          2.5
                                                  Nodecomp        0.37
                                                  PackUser           4
                                                  UNARC.COM       1.20


                         Macintosh
                         ---------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Software
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
FBBS            0.91     Copernicus       1.0     ArcMac           1.3
Hermes           1.5     Tabby            2.2     AreaFix          1.6
Mansion         7.15                              Compact Pro     1.30
Precision Sys. 0.95b*                             Eventmeister     1.0
Red Ryder Host   2.1                              Export          3.21
TeleFinder                                        Import           3.2
  Host       2.12T10                              LHARC           0.41
                                                  MacArc          0.04
                                                  Mantissa        3.21
Point System                                      Mehitable        2.0
Software                                          OriginatorII     2.0
Name         Version                              PreStamp         3.2
--------------------                              StuffIt Classic  1.6
Copernicus       1.0                              SunDial          3.2
CounterPoint    1.09                              TExport         1.92
                                                  Timestamp        1.6
                                                  TImport         1.92
                                                  Tset             1.3
                                                  TSort            1.0
                                                  UNZIP          1.02c
                                                  Zenith           1.5
                                                  Zip Extract     0.10


                         Amiga
                         -----

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Software
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
Falcon CBBS     0.45     BinkleyTerm     1.00     AmigArc         0.23
Paragon        2.082+    TrapDoor        1.50     AReceipt         1.5
TransAmiga      1.07     WelMat          0.44     booz            1.01
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 33                      5 Aug 1991


                                                  ChameleonEdit   0.10
                                                  ConfMail        1.12
                                                  ElectricHerald  1.66
                                                  LHARC           1.30
                                                  Login           0.18
                                                  MessageFilter   1.52
                                                  oMMM           1.49b
                                                  ParseLst        1.64
                                                  PkAX            1.00
                                                  PolyxAmy        2.02
                                                  RMB             1.30
                                                  Roof           44.03
                                                  RoboWriter      1.02
                                                  Rsh             4.06
                                                  Skyparse        2.30
                                                  Tick            0.75
                                                  TrapList        1.12
                                                  UNZIP           1.31
                                                  Yuck!           1.61
                                                  Zippy (Unzip)   1.25
                                                  Zoo             2.01


                         Atari ST/TT
                         -----------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Utilities
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
FIDOdoor/ST    2.4.0*    BinkleyTerm    2.40l     BINK2TB         1.00
GS Point        0.61     The BOX         1.20     ComScan         1.02
LED ST          1.00                              ConfMail        4.03
MSGED          1.96s                              EchoFix         1.20
                                                  FastPack        1.20
                                                  FDrenum        2.4.0*
Compression                                       FiFo            2.1n*
Utilities                                         Import          1.14
Name         Version                              oMMM            1.40
--------------------                              Pack            1.00
ARC             6.02                              Parselst        1.30
LHARC           1.32*                             sTICK/Hatch     5.50
PKZip           1.10                              TB2BINK         1.00
STZIP           0.80*                             Trenum          0.10
                                                  Xlist           1.12


                         Archimedes
                         ----------

BBS Software             Network Mailers          Other Utilities
Name         Version     Name         Version     Name         Version
--------------------     --------------------     --------------------
ARCbbs          1.44     BinkleyTerm     2.03     ARC             1.03
FidoNews 8-31                  Page 34                      5 Aug 1991


                                                  BatchPacker     1.00
                                                  Parselst        1.30
                                                  !Spark         2.00d
                                                  Unzip          2.1TH

--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --
Key:  + - Netmail Capable (Does Not require Additional Mailer Software)
      * - Recently Updated Version
--  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --  --

Utility Authors:  Please help keep this list up to date by reporting all
                  new versions to 1:103/950.

Note:  It is not our intent to list all utilities here, only those which
       verge on necessity.  If you want it updated in the next FidoNews,
       get it to me by Thursday evening.

--David French, 1:103/950

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-31                  Page 35                      5 Aug 1991


------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Periello
Special thanks to Ken Kaplan, 1:100/22, aka Fido #22

"FidoNews" BBS
    FidoNet  1:1/1
    Internet  fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
    BBS  (415)-863-2739  (9600 HST/V32)

(Postal Service mailing address)
    FidoNews
    Box 77731
    San Francisco
    CA 94107 USA

Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.




FidoNews is copyright 1991 Fido Software. All rights reserved.
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews (we're
easy).



OBTAINING COPIES: FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from
the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from
various sites in the FidoNet and via uucp. PRINTED COPIES mailed
may be obtained from Fido Software for $5.00US each PostPaid First
Class within North America, or $7.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail.
(US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)

Periodic subscriptions are not available at this time; if enough
people request it I will implement it.


SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/1 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC".


FidoNews 8-31                  Page 36                      5 Aug 1991


"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings of Fido Software, Box 77731, San Francisco
CA 94107, USA and are used with permission.

-- END

----------------------------------------------------------------------

