F I D O  N E W S --         |        Vol. 8 No. 24 (17 June 1991)
  The newsletter of the     |
  FidoNet BBS community     |        Published by:
          _                 |
         /  \               |       "FidoNews" BBS
        /|oo \              |          (415)-863-2739
       (_|  /_)             |          FidoNet 1:1/1
        _`@/_ \    _        |          Internet: 
       |     | \   \\       |           fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
       | (*) |  \   ))      |
       |__U__| /  \//       |        Editors:
        _//|| _\   /        |          Tom Jennings
       (_/(_|(____/         |          Tim Pozar
             (jm)           |
----------------------------+---------------------------------------
Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international 
amateur network. Copyright 1991, Fido Software. All rights reserved. 
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes 
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews.

Paper price:   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $5.00US
Electronic Price:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  free!

For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


                          Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL  .....................................................  1
   A smorgasbord of possibilities  ................................  1
2. FIDONET NEWS  ..................................................  6
3. ARTICLES  ...................................................... 12
   The 2nd Asian BBS Sysops' Conference in Taipei, 1991  .......... 12
   By Vince...and Thanks  ......................................... 14
   Who *are* these guys?  ......................................... 16
   Public Key Encryption Standard Anyone?  ........................ 20
   Message Master - a Classic Window's Message Editor  ............ 21
   SIGN FRIENDS PROGRAM-New Version Released  ..................... 22
   WorldCon 1991 Important Announcement  .......................... 23
   A Draft Elections Policy  ...................................... 32
   A Word from the Bible - The Re-Birth of Water IS Baptism  ...... 35
4. RANTS AND FLAMES  .............................................. 38
   Fidocult: Occult Mania Hits FidoNews  .......................... 38
   Speaking In Verse:  Desired Editorial Policy for FNews  ........ 39
5. CLASSIFIEDS  ................................................... 42
6. NOTICES  ....................................................... 43
   The Interrupt Stack  ........................................... 44
7. LATEST VERSIONS  ............................................... 46
   Latest Software Versions  ...................................... 46
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 1                      17 Jun 1991


======================================================================
                              EDITORIAL
======================================================================

A smorgasbord of possibilities ...
by Tom Jennings

This editorial is kinda long, so I've broken it into sections:

I MADE A MISTEAK: FidoNews compression method
UNPLEASANT DIGRESSION: Content, policy, censorship in FidoNews
BACK TO FIDONEWS: Suggestions to authors on content
MY TRAVEL PLANS: I'll be out of town for 6 weeks
PROGRAM VERSION LIST: It should be split off as a separate project
NEW SECTIONS: ... added to FidoNews
UNFINISHED PROJECTS: Things we need in FidoNews


----------------
I MADE A MISTEAK:

Between taking over a new, complex system on short notice, and not
asking the right questions, I managed to create FidoNews in a
compression format that a signifigant portion of the net could not
decompress. My sincere apologies! It was definitely not intentional.

Starting with this issue, FidoNews will again be compressed in the
near-universal ARC format. Again, my apologies to all the non-MSDOS
systems out there.

(And oooh are we touchy -- with few exceptions, I was informed of
my mistake by being accused of all sorts of conspiratorial wrong
doing, which is very exciting, but unfortunately wrong. "Thank you"
to the two or three who informed me in a civilized manner.)


---------------------
UNPLEASANT DIGRESSION:

This will be the only time I'll directly address this, so it's OK to
read.

I'm getting lots of complaints regarding Steve Winter's articles. Some
were simply flames that didn't qualify as articles except the filename
convention. I think it's funny (and depressing in oh so many ways)
that I'm the one defending a fundie christian's writings. Does it mean
I like it or agree with him? Nope. I might even have rude things to
say about it, if I wasn't editor of this rag (sic). (You think that's
contradictory? Maybe you should find out what an editor is for.)

The "reasonable" rules you would use to strike his writings from
FidoNews are the same ones that you'd use to strike anything else that
some person or group complaining loud enough didn't like. The proposed
"rules" received in the mail would turn FidoNews into a somewhat less
dry version of COMPUTERWORLD or DATAMATION.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 2                      17 Jun 1991


Policies involving people's personal/social aspects should be
determined by setting very broad limits of acceptable behavior, not by
defining a "norm" and making things adhere to it. (I agree that the
stuff in question is an extreme.) It's a slippery slope -- if by
policy you eliminate "extreme stuff", you'll find that there were
things less-extreme that are now under scrutiny; and so on ad
infinitum. A dangerous long-term policy for a vehicle that changes
hands periodically. We are setting precedent here for the future.

Fact: I am not going to give in to censorious types (even though you
insist you are not, you are).

                        * * * * *

I found this Letter to the Editor in the S.F. Bay Guardian, a weekly
newspaper in the Bay Area.

[Regarding the inclusion of a weekly horoscope column in the S.F. Bay
Guardian)

"[...]

"Some people no doubt read them because they know good advice when
they see it, and of course, a few really believe. A lot more, like me,
just think they're fun -- like fortune cookies.

"Then there are the few tiresome cranks who object, wanting to censor
our newspapers. I hope you simply ignore them.

"These people never see how they damage their own cause. They come
across as anti-free speech, generate sympathy for those they would
censor, make it easy to dismiss them as dogmatists pushing a different
belief system, don't change any minds, and worst of all, implicitly
suggest they can only address the matter by gagging the opposition."

                                                          Rick Moen
                                       Secretary, Bay Area Skeptics

Rick, by the way, happens to be FidoNet 1:125/41.

I don't believe in a right to convenience. "Convenience" has become
the unspoken universal goal for Middle America; we'll give up anything
for it, even basic rights, let any power monger who comes along make
any decision for us as long as it's convenient in the short term.
Sorry, not from me.

Enough said on this subject. Which brings me to what was originally my
FIRST item:


----------------
BACK TO FIDONEWS:

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 3                      17 Jun 1991


I request that authors try to limit themselves to issues related to
communications. FidoNet is a communications medium, with which we can
discuss anything that gives us pleasure or fills a need. FidoNews is
sort of a meta-FidoNet, a thing about a thing. It should relate to the
FidoNet as a whole, which of course means it will contain things from
the FidoNet's members, which of course may be on any subject.

FidoNews is of limited size and scope. Things within it should somehow
relate to communications, the closer to the workings of FidoNet the
better, but obviously anything related to computer networking, legal
and ethical issues, technologies, etc are especially welcome.

To reiterate, the written policy has not changed; FidoNews will
continue to run most everything received. However I request that you
try to keep to issues related to *communicating* electronically.

FidoNews will change. It will take time. Have patience. Are you
beginning to see the pattern yet? I will gladly spell out my intent
and goals and methods in as much detail as I have them -- but for now
I'll just let you think this over.

Which brings me to the next item:


---------------
MY TRAVEL PLANS:

I will be out of town by the time you read this, and will not return
until the last week of July. Yup, about 6 weeks (possibly less).
Camping in the deserts of New Mexico, somewhat aimlessly, though I'll
visit friends in Albuquerque and Santa Fe. Driving my propane-powered
white 1963 Rambler Classic 550 Cross Country Station Wagon [whew],
probably the only one about, with Fornicalia license plates that say
"FIDONET". Say hi if you see me, and be warned if you shoot at me I
may shoot back (I shoot 3-gun combat competition regularly so watch
out).

I've been planning this trip since last year. The editorship came up
at the last minute, so this conflict couldn't be helped. Tim Pozar
will be taking over in the mean time. He may be less willing to put up
with flaming so be warned :-)

Probably he will place tempests in teapots on the back burner until I
return. I'll probably call in to see how things are going (I think I
have production automated) and possibly editorialize from afar, as
I'll be taking my Tandy 200 with me. (I wrote a terminal program with
CRC XMODEM in 8085 assembly language; about 200 more instructions and
I'll have an FSC-0001 packeter for it. Probably will be the smallest
FidoNet interface (1800 bytes) around!) But I'm off subject here.


FidoNews 8-24                  Page 4                      17 Jun 1991


--------------------
PROGRAM VERSION LIST:

A list of FidoNet utility versions appears in the back of every
FidoNews. It has become an important and popular feature of FidoNews.
(I think Vince Perriello (the previous editor) came up with it.)

To make a long story short -- the utility-version-list has become a
project unto itself. Editing FidoNews is enough work by itself. It
needs to be done by someone else, and shipped here for inclusion in
FidoNews. FidoNews will run the most recently-received version; when
changes are made, I'll replace the old file with the new.

I will warn you now, it's a responsibility, and needs to be taken
seriously. Whoever does it will receive a dozen or more messages a
week, and you will need to edit the FIDONEWS.VER file accordingly (and
request additional information where required, etc) and mail a copy
here for inclusion.

It's complicated by the fact that I'll be out of town. Think about it
however in the mean time.


------------------------
NEW SECTIONS IN FIDONEWS:

    Date: Sun, 09 Jun 91 18:23:38 pdt
    From: Bob.Davis@f114.n106.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bob Davis)
    Subject: Fidonews
    To: kumr!pozar

    Dean Lachan told me you are involved in reworking the
    layout of Fidonews. We've been having a lively discussion
    in ZEC conference on a number of topics, among which is the
    viability of Fidonews as a communications medium of official
    news in Fidonet.

    Fidonews has historically been filled with a wide range
    of diatribe that causes a lot of people to skip it. Some
    have said that you can look in the table of contents and
    figure out what's important. I disagree. Look at the TOC for
    Fidonews.817. Its not obvious that Tony published the Backbone
    Procedures in there.

    May I suggest that future Fidonews incorporate a section or
    chapter devoted strictly to fidonet business commmunication? It
    would be clearly labeled as FIDONET BUSINESS or something
    similar and not include any political comment or rebuttal.

    [...]
                                           Bob

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 5                      17 Jun 1991


You've got it -- a new section in FidoNews called "FidoNet News".

"FidoNet News" contains only items pertaining to technical and policy
issues of operating FidoNet -- technical standards, policy changes,
vote results, that sort of thing. This section will appear even when
empty -- to allow scanning the Table of Contents for net-related news
and facts.


-------------------
UNFINISHED PROJECTS:

There are a number of things I want to start or change in FidoNews.
Since I won't get to do them until I return, I'll list them here so
you can think about them ahead of time.

ABSTRACTS: Called "reviews" in magazines, but they are really
"abstracts", brief descriptive mentions of other publications,
electronic and otherwise, of potential interest to FidoNews readers --
EFF's Effector, BOARDWATCH Magazine, Computer Underground Digest, and
such like. What they cover, how to get, publication schedule, etc,
rather than pass judgment good vs. bad (you're all grown up kids and
can make your own decisions on that).

FIDOCON: FidoCon '91 is about to happen -- I will be there, but I'm
only one person, so -- we need reporters!!! Don't try to cover it all,
just pick one thing and write even just one or two paragraphs. You'd
be surprised how interesting and effective VERY SHORT reports are! It
would be great to have a few dozen 2 - 3 paragraph reports on things
happening at FidoCon, rather than a few long overviews. Don't worry
about duplication; two people covering the same event can be
interesting. Don't worry about your writing, I'm not your grade school
english teacher -- it's content that counts!

Bye! Have a good trip! (hey, that's your line...)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 6                      17 Jun 1991


======================================================================
                             FIDONET NEWS
======================================================================

################################################################

FidoNetNews -- a weekly section devoted to technical and factual
issues within the FidoNet -- FidoNet Technical Standards Committee
reports, *C reports, information on FidoNet standards documents
and the like.

################################################################


----------------------------------------------------------------------


/* Probably a lot of you have never seen it -- the junk in the
nodelist meant for us huminz to read. Here an excerpt from
NODELIST.158. Somebody bug 'em and get the /0's to send me copies of
this sort of junk -- PROPERLY FORMATTED AS AN ARTICLE (see
ARTSPEC.DOC) -- for inclusion. (Unlike this one, which rquried a lot
of editing on my part.) It's your network ... --tomj */



;A FidoNet Nodelist for Friday, June 7, 1991 -- Day number 158 : 27592
;A
;A The FidoNet(r) NodeList, a listing of the systems within FidoNet.
;A
; /* Boring copyright clipped. */
;
;S      NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE -- NOTICE
;S                 --------------------------------------------
;S
;S |                 Vote Result: Proposed New Policy
;S |                 --------------------------------
;S |
;S | Matt Whelan
;S | International Coordinator
;S |
;S | Voting has closed on the proposed new FidoNet<tm> policy. The
;S | "WorldPol" proposal was ignored by a majority of eligible voters
;S | (non-votes outnumbered votes by 229 to 195), and rejected by a
;S | majority of the remainder.
;S |
;S | To be accepted as FidoNet policy, the proposal needed a 'Yes'
;S | from at least half of the votes cast. It received slightly less
;S | than 40 percent. 'No' votes accounted for nearly 50 percent, and
;S | the remainder were 'Abstain' votes -- effectively a vote against
;S | any change.
;S |
;S | Three FidoNet zones voted against the proposal, two voted for it,
;S | and one failed to vote.
;S |
;S | Final vote tally:
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 7                      17 Jun 1991


;S |
;S | Zone    YES     NO      ABSTAIN
;S |
;S | 0       --       1      -- (IC, in accordance with world totals)
;S | 1       17      65      --
;S | 2       46      12      23
;S | 3        3      14      --
;S | 4       11      --      --
;S | 5       --       3      --
;S | 6       --      --      --
;S |
;S | Total   77      95      23
;S |
;S | %Vote  39.5    48.7    11.8
;S |
;S | -------------------------------------------------------------
;S |
;S | Date:   Fri May 31 1991  19:21:03
;S | From:   Harry Lee
;S | To:     All
;S | Subj:   Here's The Big Secret
;S |
;S | The following is the current state of the voting for Z1C:
;S |
;S |  Rgn Pwd
;S |   10 Shark
;S |   11 Marduk
;S |   12 EastCan
;S |   13 Spyders
;S |   14 Compendium
;S |   15 WildWest
;S |   16 AnotherTerm
;S |   17 Eileen
;S |   18 NoWay
;S |   19 LakeParty!
;S |
;S | George Peace has been unanimously elected Zone Coordinator.
;S |
;S | Congratulations to George, and thanks to Jesse and John for
caring
;S | enough to run.
;S |
;S                 --------------------------------------------
;S
;S You can request from 1:1/0 the most recent nodelist/nodediff by
using the
;S "magic name" of NODELIST or NODEDIFF.
;S Please request from your local network or region coordinator if
possible.
;S
;S Please check the END of the nodelist for additional technical
information.
;S
;S
; /* One bazillion lines of nodes clipped out here. */
;S
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 8                      17 Jun 1991


;S
;S
;S      The following flags define special operating conditions:
;S
;S           Flag      Meaning
;S
;S           CM        Node accepts mail 24 hours a day
;S           MO        Node does not accept human callers
;S
;S
;S      The following flags define modem protocols supported:
;S
;S           Flag      Meaning
;S
;S           V21       CCITT V21      300 bps full duplex
;S           V22       CCITT V22     1200 bps full duplex
;S           V29       CCITT V29     9600 bps half duplex
;S           V32       CCITT V32     9600 bps full duplex
;S           V32b      CCITT V32bis 14400 bps full duplex
;S           V33       CCITT V33
;S           V34       CCITT V34
;S           V42       CCITT V42
;S           V42b      CCITT V42bis
;S           H96       Hayes V9600
;S           HST       USR Courier HST
;S           MAX       Microcom AX/96xx series
;S           PEP       Packet Ensemble Protocol
;S
;S           NOTE:  Many V22 modems also support Bell 212A.
;S
;S      If no modem flag is given,  Bell 212A is assumed for 1200 bps
;S       systems,  CCITT V22bis is assumed for 2400 bps systems.
;S
;S
;S  The following flags define type of error correction available.  A
;S  separate error correction flag should not be used when the error
;S correction type can be determined by the modem flag.  For instance,
;S  a modem flag of HST implies MNP.
;S
;S           Flag      Meaning
;S
;S           MNP       Microcom Networking Protocol error correction
;S           V42       LAP-M error correction w/fallback to MNP
;S
;S
;S      The following flags define the type(s) of compression of mail
;S      packets supported.
;S
;S   Flag      Meaning
;S
;S   MN        No compression supported
;S             NOTE:  The only compression method standard in
;S             FidoNet is archiving,  using the standard SEA ARC
;S             format,  with archive names defined by the
;S             specification for ARCMail 0.6.  The absence of the
;S             MN flag indicates that ARCMail 0.6 compression is
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 9                      17 Jun 1991


;S             supported by this node.
;S
;S
;S      The following flags indicate the types of file/update requests
;S      supported.
;S
;S  |----------------------------------------------------------|
;S  |      |           Bark          |          WaZOO          |
;S  |      |-------------------------|-------------------------|
;S  |      |    File    |   Update   |    File    |   Update   |
;S  | Flag |  Requests  |  Requests  |  Requests  |  Requests  |
;S  |------|------------|------------|------------|------------|
;S  | XA   |     Yes    |     Yes    |     Yes    |     Yes    |
;S  | XB   |     Yes    |     Yes    |     Yes    |     No     |
;S  | XC   |     Yes    |     No     |     Yes    |     Yes    |
;S  | XP   |     Yes    |     Yes    |     No     |     No     |
;S  | XR   |     Yes    |     No     |     Yes    |     No     |
;S  | XW   |     No     |     No     |     Yes    |     No     |
;S  | XX   |     No     |     No     |     Yes    |     Yes    |
;S  |----------------------------------------------------------|
;S
;S
;S The following software is qualified to use the
;S appropriate file request flag:
;S
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  File Req Flag   Software Package     |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  XA              Frontdoor <1.99b     |
;S      |                  Dutchie 2.90c        |
;S      |                  Binkleyterm >2.1     |
;S      |                  D'Bridge <1.3        |
;S      |                  TIMS                 |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  XB              Binkleyterm 2.0      |
;S      |                  Dutchie 2.90b        |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  XC              Opus 1.1             |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  XP              Seadog               |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  XR              Opus 1.03            |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  XW              Fido >12M            |
;S      |                  Tabby                |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |  XX              D'Bridge 1.30        |
;S      |                  Frontdoor 1.99b      |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S      |                                       |
;S      |  None            QMM                  |
;S      |---------------------------------------|
;S
;S
;S
;S  The following flag defines gateways to other domains (networks).
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 10                     17 Jun 1991


;S
;S   Flag      Meaning
;S
;S   Gx..x     Gateway to domain 'x..x',  where 'x..x` is a string
;S             of alphanumeric characters.  Valid values for 'x..x'
;S             are assigned by the FidoNet International
;S             Coordinator.  This flag is not authorized for use by
;S             any node unless specifically authorized by the IC or
;S             FidoNet Inter-Network Coordinator. Registered
;S             domain gateways include:
;S             uucp     to be used only by nodes in a list of
;S                      authorized fidonet.org sites available at
;S                      1:1/31.
;S
;S
;S The following flags define the dedicated mail periods supported.
;S They have the form "#nn" or !nn where nn is the UTC hour the mail
;S period begins,  # indicates Bell 212A compatibility,  and !
;S indicates incompatibility with Bell 212A.
;S
;S           Flag      Meaning
;S
;S           #01       Zone 5 mail hour (01:00 - 02:00 UTC)
;S           #02       Zone 2 mail hour (02:30 - 03:30 UTC)
;S           #08       Zone 4 mail hour (08:00 - 09:00 UTC)
;S           #09       Zone 1 mail hour (09:00 - 10:00 UTC)
;S           #18       Zone 3 mail hour (18:00 - 19:00 UTC)
;S           #20       Zone 6 mail hour (20:00 - 21:00 UTC)
;S
;S             NOTE:  When applicable,  the mail period flags may
;S             be strung together with no intervening commas,  eg.
;S             "#02#09".  Only mail hours other than that standard
;S             within a node's zone should be given.  Since
;S             observance of mail hour within one's zone is
;S             mandatory,  it should not be indicated.
;S
;S
;S The following flag defines user-specific values. If present,  this
;S flag MUST be the last flag present in a nodelist entry.
;S
;S           Flag      Meaning
;S
;S   Ux..x     A user-specified string,  which may contain any
;S             alphanumeric character except blanks.  This string
;S             may contain one to thirty-two characters of
;S             information that may be used to add user-defined
;S             data to a specific nodelist entry.  The character "U"
;S             should NOT be repeated, eg, "UXXX,YYY" not "UXXX,UYYY".
;S
;S             This flag is NOT to be used for advertisements, or
;S             non-essential information.  If you have questions
;S             concerning the use of this flag, please contact your
;S             Regional Coordinator, or request the file USERFLAG.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 11                     17 Jun 1991


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 12                     17 Jun 1991


======================================================================
                               ARTICLES
======================================================================

By : Yoshi Mikami
The 2nd Asian BBS Sysops' Conference in Taipei, 1991

/* AARGH!! This article had no title, and was filled with tab
characters! Soon I'll get tired of manually editing and will
just ignore them. Please make sure your articles conform
to ARTSPEC.DOC! -- tomj */


This is the official report by the Organizing Committee of the 2nd Asian
BBS Sysops' Conference held in Taipei, Taiwan, in June, 1991.

          The 2nd Asian BBS Sysops' Conference in Taipei, 1991
          ----------------------------------------------------
                     Date: June 12, 1991
                     By: Yoshi Mikami, representing the Organizing
                         Committee, Taipei, c/o FidoNet 6:720/13

The 2nd Asian BBS Sysops' Conference was held on Saturday, June 8, 1991,
in Taipei, Taiwan, ROC, at the Taipei Office of Tsing Hua University.
Sixty-six people registered themselves as participants of the
conference:  50 from Taiwan, 9 from Japan, 6 from Korea and one from
Hongkong.  Several jounalists were covering the conference, as they were
expected to write about this conference in the computer and BBS
magazines in Japan, Korea and Taiwan, just like last year.  These and
other unregistered participants made the total number of attendees close
to 90.

Honlin Lue of the Organizing Committee kicked off the meeting at 1:45 PM
with the explanation in Chinese (*) of the objective of the conference:
free exchange of the information and experience of using computers to
communicate with the people of the world.  Honlin, Jimmy Tsai and Yoshi
Mikami were the moderators of this year's conference.  The abstracts of
all speakers were available in both hard copy and soft copy formats.
This year's organizing committee consisted of Mathew Hsia, Bandit Ho and
Tad Sekineh as well as the people mentioned in this paragraph.
Toshiyuki Omi, Soon Pack Park and Jim Lin were the Country Coordinators
for Japan, Korea and Taiwan, respectively.

(*) Jimmy had set up two mini-FM transmitters to provide simultaneous
Chinese/English and Japanese/English translations for the audience to
hear via their portable FM radios.  The translation team, headed by Tad
Sekineh, consisted of Alexandre Chang, Franke Ojeda and Tad himself.
Our conference policy was to let the speakers use the language that they
feel comfortable with.

Shuichi Fujita first spoke of the BBS Scene in Japan.  He covered the
broad areas of both amateur BBSes and commercial networks (NIFTY-Serve,
PC-VAN, etc.), the statistical data by region of the amateur BBSes, the
most frequently used BBS host programs, and his experience of
participating in bringing up the International Fido Network in Japan
last year.  Joji Sawai added his comments about the PC Tokyo (PCT) User
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 13                     17 Jun 1991


Group activities and distributed the PCT Newslatters.

Sang Kil Lee of Korea then described the Korean BBS Scene.  Citing a
recent Sysops' meeting sponsored by POS-Serve (starting its service
later this summer under license from NIFTY-Serve) in Seoul, he mentioned
that they were excited over a possibility of coordinating a future Asian
BBS Sysops' conference in Korea.  His speech and abstract gave the
audience a detailed look at the use of computers by the Korean people.

Ray Tracy of Taiwan as a third speaker made a powerful speech about the
Taiwan BBS Scene in Chinese.  He introduced the wide use of FidoNet
here, the multiplicity of various echo boards and TTN-Serve, Taiwan's
first commercial system.  Tracy spoke of Taiwan's BITNET, UUCP
connection and radio packet network also.  It was a good, comprehensive
analysis of the Taiwan network status.

One-hour intermission from 3:00 PM was meant for the participants to
freely meet with each other.  Books and magazines on BBSing from Taiwan
and Japan were displayed on the side tables inside the conference hall.
It was also a "Sing Along" time for those who cared to participate.  A
children's song, originally from Germany ("Hanschen klein, Hanschen
klein, ..."), was sung in Japanese ("Butterfly, butterfly, stop by the
rape flowers!  ..."), in Chinese ("Buzzy bee, buzzy bee, ...") and in
Korean (it sounded more like a cicada than a bufferfly or buzzy bee).
China's Tang Dynasty 5- and 7-character line poems ("Spring slumber
cannot be awaken by the dawn" and "The moon has fallen, the crows have
become inactive and the sky is full of frost") were also recited and
sung by the volunteers.

Those who had brought notebook PCs with them demonstrated the Chinese,
Japanese and Korean systems that were placed in one computer.
Paticipants were surprised to get donations:  "2nd Asian BBS Sysops'
Conference" yellow vests by Actyiu Yiu, "Chinese poem reciting" cassette
tapes by Claude Shen, and "I Love Taipei" bumper stickers from IBM
Taiwan.

The second half of the BBS conference started at 4:00 PM.  From the
other Asian countries and regions, Daniel Mok of Hongkong and Charlie
McDermott of Okinawa spoke of their experiences in their respective
areas.  Hongkong and Okinawa are Taiwan's dearest neighbors, important
for international communi- cation links.

Julie Chu of Taiwan was the only female speaker of the day.  Julie
talked enthusiastically about her experience of running a Fido BBS in
Taipei since last year.  She expects more female users and sysops to
join the BBSing world in the future.  There were about ten female
participants in the conference.

There apparently was ample interest among the Korean commercial BBS
operators to participate in this conference.  Dong Soo Lee of the Korea
Economic Daily's KETEL and Byung Gyu Chung of DACOM's PC-Serve gave a
15-minute talk each about their services.  There were a great deal of
technical questions asked of the Korean personal computers and answered.
Completion (Wansung) vs.  combination (Johab) methods of representing
Korean Hangeul characters, 2-bul vs.  3-bul types of keyboards, Iyagi
and Nambuktongil ("Unity of South and North") terminal emulator
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 14                     17 Jun 1991


programs, etc., were all discussed.

Toshiyuki Omi made closing remarks of the conference in Japanese,
thanking the participants and the Organizing Committee members.  Our
Asian countries using the double-byte character sets are entering an
interesting period of time, with the availability of ETen in Taiwan,
DOS/V in Japan and Saedong Gilshi in Korea.  We are now more interested
in each other's activities.  A suggestion of having the next meeting in
Korea is a good sign of having more people interested in what we know we
do best:  helping others to communicate with the people of the world.

After the formal part of the conference was over, a free discussion was
held regarding the next conference.  Several opinions were expressed
openly, including the desires to have the next meeting in Korea, to keep
the June conference in Taipei (because of the COMPUTEX Taipei computer
show) and to hold a fall meeting elsewhere, etc.  A hesitency was
noticed among the Korean participants because they were not sure at this
time if a good organizing committee of several interested people can be
set up in Seoul, while the names of the BBS conference participants from
Korea entirely changed from last year to this year.  The Japanese
participants seemed to be more interested in travelling to other
countries than holding the BBS conference in Japan.

For those who had paid for dinner, there were all kinds of opinion and
business card exchanges, and private meetings during the 6:00-8:00 PM
dinner party time.  The late afternoon squall, typical of the Taipei
weather, had almost stopped for all participants to take taxis or busses
to go back to their hotels or homes, in the warm summer evening.  It was
again a good BBS conference in Taipei for the Asian sysops, full of fun.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sir Dep aka Jim Deputy
69:1300/6969
1:103/158

                      By Vince...and Thanks

Thanks for the memories Vince...I think you've done a excellent
job riding herd on FIDONEWS.

In thinking back over the time you discussed, we've had 3 ZC's,
we are working on our 3rd ZEC, P4 has been implemented, I tempo
rarily removed SYSOP from the domain of FidoNet for FidoNet's *C
conference rules violation, until an equitable agreement could be
worked out.

I've taken a group of 5 adult oriented local echoes, and parlayed
them into a fully blown private network with links listed in 8
countries, and well over 300 discreet nodes. Sometimes I wonder
how it keeps going.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 15                     17 Jun 1991


We've seen the demise of IFNA, something I was not very happy
over. Mostly because of the apathy involved in its demise. IFNA
had some really good things it could have done for FidoNet and
Networking in general had it been allowed to do them.

We've seen Echopol 1 abandoned, but still technically enforced,
and then finally thrust upon us by command. We've seen Gateway
Poll put in place by dictatorial edict. And in the same FidoNews
it was violated by the same person who is today our ZEC.

We've seen elections that would make the Democrats and Republi
cans green with envy! Especially because they didn't think anyone
could get any dirtier at it that they could.

I hadn't realized that there was even a draft of WorldPol ready,
let alone an election was being held on it. I've tried to get out
of main-stream FidoNet Politics because of health and finances.
But, even trying to stay out, it seems that it's impossible. For
example I've just picked up FidoNews 821. Today is June 10.

I like alot of what I seen in WorldPol. I have a couple of points
of contention with it. One is what about a part of policy for
"minor" sysops? I'm not advocating not allowing them in, but I am
definitely advocating some sort of parental responsibility
clause, and possibly agreement. I've seen several networks nearly
taken apart by kids with no parental supervision.

Speaking of kids, P4 pushed for the removal of the PVT systems,
and for them to either go to points, or become fully listed
nodes. I see that now the BACKBONE is getting ready to declare
the Off-Line readers that were developed to help with this are
about to become illegal. Real progress.

More on kids, last month I got a message from my 1:103 NEC stat-
ing that he knew I was linking echoes to 1:202, and that I should
not use my Zone 69 connections to 'illegally' send them fidonet
echoes, and by-pass their Echomail Cost Recovery Scheme. After
advising him that the business of Adult Links was not the busi
ness of the Net 103 NEC, I demanded he show proof of his accusa
tions, or retract his statement and apologize. To date he has
done neither. At the time, I was linking Net 103 to SDS, and also
linking the NEC to several echoes. I've since talked to several
Net 202 sysops and they would also like to know more about the
Echomail Recovery Plan that they are supposed to be under.

The other part is the discrimination clause. I like alot of what
I see there. P4 gives the local networks some rights to a local
policy. This allows for variations as to how a system applies for
a node number, it allows for probably 400 different variations on
how various networks allow "minors" into them, and it allows for
variations to keep people out of local Networks.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 16                     17 Jun 1991


For example, the use of Handles/Alias'. There is nothing in P4
the denies a person the right to use a handle and or alias. Last
summer, I got a call from our local NEC who had convinced the NC
that it was improper for a person to use a handle, and they had
removed a node from the nodelist based on the fact that one of
the CO-SYSOP's regularly used a handle, and refused to use his
real name, even though he is better known by his handle than by
his name. The system was removed from the nodelist without notice
to the SYSOP as to why or for what reason. I also discussed the
probable results of a PC against both of them if the sysop were
so inclined. The system magically reappeared in the nodelist.

I know they understand it. Shucks, I sent my NC a message on May
13th asking for both my system name and the sysop name to be
changed. I sent a follow-up message on May 28th, and I see my
system name got changed in Nodelist.158. I've just sent my NC a
note reminding him that he missed the sysop name change. It's
becoming a problem, because most people now try and contact me as
SIR DEP and not Jim Deputy.

But, it's also been a nice time. TJ are you sure you're ready for
this again?

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Who *are* these guys?
Another Cautionary tale by
Charles Herriot (1:163/110)

(Special Note to Editor-Being:

 This article has absolutely nothing to do with Crunch 'N Munch,
 God, or the ruinously high cost of Jolt. For those who
 wish to benefit from the full effect of this article;
 either play sappy violin music as you read about the
 pathetic demise of the COMMODORE echo; or else put Ina
 Gada Da Vida on autorepeat on your CD player. There is
 little in this article that would give a Technoid wet
 dreams. Roll da flick, Tom.)


Corresponding from a secure hiding place deep within the uncharted
recesses of Policy3 and Policy4, "Doc Logger" lashes another missive
into the jaws of the high speed paper tape punch and then throws
untold thousands of toggle switches to get the Imsai 8080 to
transmit to Visage's Church of The Dayglo Black Velvet Paintings.



Dear Reverend Visage,

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 17                     17 Jun 1991


Your secretary is shrieking at me concerning the small
problem with the Porsche we borrowed to deliver last night's
echomail. How were we supposed to know that the drawbridge
was up and that we would land six counties away in the
middle of a sheep pasture? I hate to tell you this, but
she's gonna be in a king hell rage when you show up again
with lanolin on your breath.


I'm sure you can remember the movie "Butch Cassidy And The
Sundance Kid". I have been reminded of that movie in the
recent past concerning the sad plight of the Commode D'Or
echo. As Butch & Sundance traversed sagebrush and mountains
they were pursued relentlessly, and they kept asking each
other: "Who *are* those guys?".

As you are well aware, we've made a few underestimations in
our time, not the least of which was the time you bet almost
our entire stuffed armadillo collection on the recent ZEC
election, but I don't think we missed hearing the speeding
train as badly as we did when the California Spam 'N Timmies
invaded the Commode D'Or echo.

Okay, so maybe using an areatag name like COMMODORE in
recognition of the fact that the afformentioned piece of
hardware was adopted as our mascot and is also the boat
anchor of serious sport fisherman everywhere. And maybe,
just maybe, if we'd been firmer with the mongol hordes who
descended on the echo and attempted to talk techie to us...
perhaps we wouldn't be in serious echomail withdrawal at the
moment.

Perhaps I wasn't paying as much attention to the messages as
I should have... and this has almost nothing at all to do
with the fact that I played AC/DC's "Thunderstruck" on the
other serial channel as I patiently waited for the cassette
deck to load the echomail into my trailing-edge technology
BBS running on the Sinclair ZX81. I saw the first couple of
messages and pondered to myself: "Who *are* these guys?" and
left it at that.

When was it that we started the Commode D'Or echo? It must
have been at least four years ago and possibly longer
because I recall you foolishly losing our entire dental
floss ranch on a silly bet concerning the longevity of disco
music. We started the echo as a local effort so that we
could discuss the more serious issues facing computer users
in the frozen tundra... the high cost of whale blubber to
keep the hard drives lubricated was a frequent topic of
debate. The echo gained a loyal following and by some act of
NEC/REC magic it found it's way onto the International
Backbone.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 18                     17 Jun 1991


Nine months after the echo was placed on the backbone, the
very first non-local message arrived. It was from some guy
in New Jersey who quoted *everything* and appended very
little of his own. Remember how riled he got when it was
suggested that he book into the Betty Ford Clinic For The
Criminally Uninspired to cure his rampant Quotaholism? In no
time, he had marshalled more of his buddies to join the echo
and, again, I asked myself: "Who *are* these guys?"

As politely as we could, we pointed the New Jersoids to the
CBM echo where *serious* Commodore techies could do whatever
it is that consenting Commodore users do... and I really
don't wanna know. We could tell they were a repressed and
unhappy bunch when they chose to disbelieve us when we
mentioned that most of our echomail traffic was carried by
dog-teams across the frozen ice-flows.

The Commode D'Or echo took on a special meaning when one of
our parka pals actually operated a Fidonet BBS (163/227) on
his C128, using software written by himself in Basic. (Basic
is a programming language preferred by C programmers who
have learned how to count, and thus don't get confused by
line numbers...ahem.) Even Nanook's pet seal clapped her
flippers in admiration that a C128 could be browbeaten into
Fidonet mailer compliancy.

Alas (please note: not "a lass"), the universe never seems
to unfold as it should and the echo was soon invaded by the
California Spam 'N Timmies. These new participants in the
echo, if they had any reading comprehension at all, quickly
announced that it was a "Commodore" echo.

"No. No." we said "Commode D'Or... Commode D'Or... as in
Golden Toilet." but they wouldn't listen. The reared up on
thier hindpaws and *demanded* that we cease talking about
'frivolous' things immediately, or else. Now up here in the
frozen north we've always been a friendly bunch and willing
to accomodate almost anyone. (Tell Nanook that I'll return
his wife later this week.) We figured that the California
Spam 'N Timmies bunch could co-exist in the echo with us.
We'd ignore their techie-talk, and they could ignore our
exchanges about edible underwear, Caribou migrations, and
the occasional C128 Fidonet mailer test message.

One fellow, who was linked into the net via one of the
gateways, announced that he would either change the echo, or
destroy it. As usual, we didn't take him all that seriously
since he kept signing his name by appending "President,
Commodore User's Club". I mean really, a Commodore User's
Club... it is to snicker. What we missed in our good hearted
attempts to humour these fire-breathing intruders, was that
Commodore users are probably the larval stage of Amiga
users. You *know* how touchy the Amagatroids are about their
toy computers.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 19                     17 Jun 1991


I guess it must have been Nanook who suggested that they
either needed to have more fibre in their diet, or at least
to get out and play on the freeway more often. Remember how
excitable everyone got that time you brought your pet skunk
to the wedding reception? Well, this situation wasn't much
different. The California Spam 'N Timmies went
hypercritical. We're talkin' major modem meltdown here. One
of them, in an effort to show us what *real* Commodore
messages looked like, cross-posted about 50 messages from
the CBM echo and then proceeded to use some words that had
something to do with an act of self-procreation. Another one
of them, a fellow who identified himself as the NC of a
Fidonet BBS, keep bleating for a ruling from the moderator.

I spoke to the moderator and his response was as laid back
as could be expected from someone whose front lawn is
covered with snow for 11 1/2 months of the year. "No
problem" he said, "The dweebs who are whining all live in
California. We'll just be patient and let continental drift
take care of them." It seemed like a wise course of action,
and hey, if an earthquake took them out earlier then that
was all the better. In an effort to make them feel welcome I
participated in their new game of cross-posting messages.
The one I chose happened to be about a yuppie-babe on a date
with some vegetables.... a completely on topic and
appropriate message for the Commode D'Or echo.

I have no idea why a paragraph such as:

 "She poured a small splash of Genadine into the juicer
followed by an over-ample dash of white rum. The pineapples
which had rested upon smooth linen napkins winked up at her.
She grasped a cherry by it's stem and gently teased the seed
from it's depths with her tongue. Using both hands, she
plunged the cherry pitter deep into a second cherry and
carefully allowed the juices to run across her wrist before
she raised her arm and sucked the delicate drops."

... could cause these people to be driven to near-apoplexy.
As they went variously insane, they also netmailed all parts
of the known Fidonet admin structure with whimpers of
outrage. I don't know about you Visage, but it strikes me
that these people must have suffered horribly as children by
being forced to remain at the supper table until they'd
finished all their vegetables. Faster than you could say
"There's a skunk in the fridge", incoming WhineMail(tm) from
*serious* *C-beings was filling my netmail directory.

"Excuse me?" I rejoined, "You want to do what?" I asked
incredulously. "You want all of us who have fun in the
Commode D'Or echo to desist?" And just for old times sake, I
asked myself: "Who *are* these guys?" I didn't worry all
that much because as far as I knew at the time, no *EC in
his right mind would blunder into an echo and try to enforce
content rules, particularly since we were breaking no laws.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 20                     17 Jun 1991


But, and you'll be amazed by this, those *EC-beings have
suddenly gotten religion in a major way. So much religion,
in fact, that godlike powers have descended upon their able
shoulders. Some of them, and this would have *really*
impressed the crowds a coupla thousand years ago, some of
them can actually walk and chew gum at the same time. I
know, I know... we couldn't really expect any *ECs to read
the echo which they were poised to incinerate... the
comprehension levels alone would have precluded that, but
surely one of them could have asked a few questions of us?

Without the courtesy of a message entered in the echo
telling us, the echo was taken out behind the ZEC's computer
and quietly garrotted. They didn't even return the corpse
for a decent burial. I don't really fault the *EC-beings,
they're as likely to join a lynch mob as any other mortal,
but the people I just cannot understand, are the ones who
rode into the echo with their Policy4 Six-guns blazing for
no real purpose. So I guess, if I were to ask myself again,
"Who *are* these guys?", I'd have to respond that they are
humourlous savages... more inclined to destroy than to
create. They're the pioneers of a new era and their
Policy-legimitimized thuggery is making a real mess of
FidoNet.

I must go, Visage. I was due at the studio an hour ago.
"Dread Zeppelin" is doing a reggae version of "Baa Baa Black
Sheep" and I've been hired to play the tuba solo.

Regards,

Doc Logger








----------------------------------------------------------------------


Fredric L. Rice
1:102.901.0

Just a quick note to suggest a bit of a standard when applying
the Pretty Good Privacy program described in FidoNews 823. I've
had many downloads from my system since it was mentioned and
the general consensus after viewing the project was that a magic
file name should be selected by which anyone may request of a
system its SysOps Public Key.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 21                     17 Jun 1991


Typically, PGPKEY was suggested, with Public Key identification
of the SysOps last name, a comma, a space, and then the first
name. Of course, the identification is easilly viewed using the
-v option of PGP so that's not an important item to standardize.

Fredric.


----------------------------------------------------------------------


by Will Schlichtman (1:350/59)
MsgMstr - A Window into FidoNet

Microsoft Windows v3.0 seems to have taken the country by storm and
has become quite a viable platform for BBS operation and routine
message manipulation.  A major problem though seems to be a lack of
FidoNet specific programs that take full advantage of Windows.  Most
current programs and utilities that evolved for FidoNet were developed
before Windows was ever considered a feasible system.  Hopefully, this
situation will turn around soon and major components for FidoNet will
be released as the advantages of running in the Windows environment
become more apparent.

To help kick off this boon to the FidoNet way of operations, I have
written a message editor that should intrigue anyone interested in
switching to the GUI interface, and to some that have yet to even
consider it.

Message Master (MsgMstr) is in its infancy at version 1.21 but
contains a number of features normally found only in programs that
have been around for a number of years.  It exhibits a seasoned feel
in that it utilizes not only the standard Windows-user interface
techniques, but incorporates keystrokes that have become the standard
among most *.MSG editors such as OpMed and MsgEd -- two respected DOS-
based message editors of long standing.  If you have become dependent
upon the left/right arrow combination for message reading, then you
are looking in the right direction when considering switching to
MsgMstr.

Some of MsgMstr's most prominent features include:

-    Very simple setup operation.  Virtually effortless for those
     running BinkleyTerm.  Great for point-operation too.

-    Full zone/point addressing.

-    Complete configuration of defaults for echo/matrix/local message
     areas, path and file locations/names, Origin lines.

-    Instant mail scanning.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 22                     17 Jun 1991


-    Group message deletion and a feature called the Copy Machine,
     which is a powerful utility for sending mass mail.

-    Easy message forward/move/copy/delete.

-    File merge with automatic text replacement.

-    Complete message editing including header info and flag settings.

-    Control of echo area high-water marks.

-    Easy and intelligent freqing/file attach/update request options.

-    Automatic special storage area to place items for archiving.

-    Quick-Access buttons for the most common operations, available at
     all times on screen.  Does not interfere with message observation
     and manipulation.

-    Complete documentation.

All of these features are provided in the standard, easy-to-use
interface that Windows 3.0 is noted for.  Utilizing menus, dialog-
boxes, buttons, and an editor with scrollbars, MsgMstr makes for a
pleasant environment to spend your time in.  Messages may be created
up to 32,000 characters in length and employ quoted lines, tear and
origin lines, ANSI or ASCII characters;  cut and paste using the
clipboard, and a whole array of interesting and useful features not
included here.

Message Master's future holds a bright light in features never before
seen in message editors.  Due to Window's flexibility, more can be
accomplished and aid the user in message manipulation than could ever
have been imagined in DOS-based programs.  Plans are in place to add
even more features that take advantage of this flexibility.

MsgMstr is a formidable editor and very easy to use.  It makes reading
a 1000 messages a joy, not a task.  In its current configuration, it
has the features expected of any message editor for use in FidoNet. As
I've demonsrated here, it holds much more.  Just imagine what it will
be once it has matured.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anthony Grillo
Fido 1:272/94


                 SIGN FRIENDS-NEW VERSION INFORMATION

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 23                     17 Jun 1991


The author of SIGN FRIENDS, Fran O'Gorman, has issued a new version
with additional chapters and even a special version for theatrical
use. Sign Friends is a Sign Language Tutorial with a dictionary of 512
words, the alphabet, numbers and fingerspeller.


The files are file requestable from 1:272/94 at US Robotics HST,
V32bis, V42bis speeds at all times except Zone 1 Zone Mail Hour.

FILES TO REQUEST:

SF40-HD.ZIP   204898  06-16-91 Full 4.0 Version of Sign Friends
                               designed for hard disk.

SF40-1.ZIP    104217  06-16-91 Part 1 of program for Floppy Systems
SF40-2.ZIP    103384  06-16-91 Part 2 of program for Floppy Systems

SF4TH-E.ZIP   142880  06-04-91 Special Mini Version of Sign Friends
                               for theatrical use.


                         PROGRAM AUTHOR

Just to clarify the situation. Fran O'Gorman is the author of
Sign Friends. All program questions, suggestions, nice letters
etc. should be addressed to Fran. Fran can be reached here by
Netmail or on the SILENTTALK Echo. Anthony Grillo is the sysop
of The Monroe Electronic Mall, one of the BBSs that carries the
latest versions of SIGN FRIENDS. Any problems with downloading or file
request should be addressed to Anthony.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Noel Bradford
FidoNet 2:2/999

/* AARGH!!!! THIS article was submitted TWICE and was filled
with ASCII HT characters -- 9 decimal!!!! Please, read ARTSPEC.DOC
and follow it! -- tomj */



            WORLDCON 1991 -- an Important Announcement

WorldCon '91, the European Fidonet Convention, has had to
change the venue, due to circumstances out of the control of the
organisers.

Fortunately, an alternative has been located after scouring the
UK for a suitable location.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 24                     17 Jun 1991


Xenon Management Ltd (XML), the organisers, are pleased to
announce the new venue will be:-

Hatfield Polytechnic's Wall Hall Campus which is just outside
Watford in Hertfordshire. As this is a campus the accommodation
will be relatively basic (ie no TV or Phones in rooms or en-suite
bathrooms) but cheap. Prices are from 25GBP per night (see below
for details)

The Current List of CONFIRMED VIP's includes:-

   Andrew Milner             Author of Remote Access
   Daniel Kalchev            RC Bulgaria
   David Doyle               RC Ireland
   Felix Kasza               ZC2 and European end of TAP
   Jim Deputy                IC ADult Links
   Joaquim Homrighausen      Author of Frontdoor & Tosscan
   Nik Bombelli              REC Switzerland
   Orlando Castillo          REC Spain
   Peter Janssens            SDS ZC2

Subjects for discussion include:-

   Apathy in Fidonet - Is it a serious threat and do we care?
   Echomail Policy - Do we need it?
   A Sysops responsiblity for the contents of their system
   SDS/ADS/SDN/WINNET/DVNET - What are they all?
   Echomail - Cost Sharing
   BBS Subscriptions - the way forward or a step back?
   Bulletin boards & the Disabled Community
   Mail Routing - How does it work?
   Requirements for joining fidonet - Do these need reviewing?
   Users - How do I Attract them?

Other things that will be going on........

   A Full Non-delegate program including a full day guided
   sightseeing tour of London.

   The Traditional Disk throwing competition.

   A Fund raising banquet - All proceeds to the TAP project.

   Prize draws and Door Prizes

You can keep up with all the latest news by hooking into
WORLDCON.91 echo.

The booking form follows and can be requested as magic name
WORLDCON from the following nodes:-

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 25                     17 Jun 1991


        2:25/102
        2:2/999
        2:512/1
        2:310/11

                                                  __
                                                 /  \
                                                /|oo \
          - Worldcon '91 -                     (_|  /_)
       - Including Eurocon V -                  _`@/_ \    _
                                               |     | \   \\
   At Hatfield Polytechnic                     | (*) |  \   ))
      Wall Hall Campus            ______       |__U__| /  \//
        Aldenham                 / FIDO \       _//|| _\   /
      Hertfordshire             (________)     (_/(_|(____/

                                                  (jm)


                    **************************
                    * CONFERENCE INFORMATION *
                    **************************

Worldcon '91 is to be held at Hatfield Polytechnic's Wall Hall
Campus on July 26/27/28 1991.

For your convenience the organisers have managed to negotiate
some very good packages that include accommodation, all meals, &
Conference fees. There is also a very special deal available for
those who would like to bring their partner, or for those who
have to bring their spouse (See PLAN C for details).

Hatfield Polytechnic is renowned as a centre of academic
excellence. The main subjects being Engineering, Computer
Science, Business Studies, Educational and Natural Sciences.

The Wall Hall campus site is based round a magnificent Gothic
Mansion set in splendid grounds that include an open air heated
swimming pool, tennis courts, Football and hockey pitches. There
is a large gymnasium, and extensive grounds for games and walks.
The adjacent golf course may be used (at additional cost) by
delegates.


The All Inclusive Deal covers the following:-

 Conference Fee.
 Morning coffee and shortbread
 Buffet Lunches
 Afternoon Tea & Cakes
 2 x Dinner
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 26                     17 Jun 1991


 2 Nights Accommodation
 2 x English Breakfast.

** Plan C includes the above plus room only accommodation for
partner/spouse. There will also be further charge of 100.00 GBP
to cover the cost of meals and the widow/widower program. **

                    * NON-DELEGATES' PROGRAM *

This program has been specially designed for the ladies. This
program includes a full day guided tour on Saturday.

The tour includes :-
                * A unique look around the Royal Albert Hall
                * A Tour of Westminster Abbey
                * See the Changing of the Guard
                * Three course lunch on the river Thames
                * Tour of the Tower of London
                * See the Crown Jewels
                * Visit to St Pauls Cathedral

Also included in the program is a Reception Buffet, the Banquet,
and a Traditional British Sunday Lunch.

                      **********************
                      * BOOKING CONDITIONS *
                      **********************

You will notice that those who book early will benefit from our
Early booking discounts.

Please note -- the closing date for bookings is JULY 14th, 1991.
Any bookings received after the closing date will be subject to a
further 20% surcharge, payable at the time of booking.

Please note when using the following tables of charges that the
relevant date of the booking will be the actual date that the
payment is made to the organisers' bank account, so please try to
allow time for the funds to be cleared by the bank.


                     ************************
                     * Cancellations Policy *
                     ************************

Cancellations made prior to July 1st will receive a refund of 50%
of the value of the booking. Cancellations made up to July 15th
will receive a refund of 25% of the value of the booking;
cancellations made thereafter will receive no refund whatsoever.

            CLOSING DATE FOR BOOKINGS IS July 14th!!!

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 27                     17 Jun 1991


                          **************
                          * How to pay *
                          **************

In order to process your booking correctly, we request that when
make your booking, you indicate the mode of payment you will be
using.

  * By Cheque (Euro-cheque or cheques drawn on a UK bank ONLY).
    Non European registrations please send a certified Bankers
    Cheque or Money Order .

  Please complete this form and send it with a cheque or money
  order for the total amount to:

        Worldcon '91
        C/O Xenon Management Ltd
        152 Lonsdale Drive,
        Enfield,
        Middlesex EN2 7NF
        Great Britain

  All Cheques and Money Orders should be made payable to

                      XENON MANAGEMENT LTD.

              ALL FUNDS MUST BE IN POUNDS STERLING!

  * Bank Transfers *

  Money Must be transferred to account number 0209766

        of XENON MANAGEMENT LTD

        and MUST include the reference "WORLDCON 91"

        At Lloyds Bank PLC
           1 Silver Street
           Enfield
           Middlesex
           EN1 3EE
           ENGLAND

           UK SORTING CODE 30-93-07

PLEASE NOTE: You are responsible for any bank charges that may be
incurred; please inform your bankers of this fact.

You may register by Netmailing this completed form to 2:2/999 as well,
which is the official Worldcon '91 for processing. Rename it to
ZNNNXXXX.PPP where :

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 28                     17 Jun 1991


 "Z" is your Zone number,
 "N" is your Net number,
 "X" is your Node number
 and "P" your point-number.

If you are a sysop, then PPP should be '000'.
If you are a user, then PPP should be 'USR'.

E-mailed registrations must be confirmed by regular mail within
14 days, after this period the registration becomes void unless
full payment is received in the meantime.

All Bookings will be confirmed by e-mail as soon payment has
cleared the bank.

   +------ NOTICE - NOTICE - NOTICE - NOTICE - NOTICE -------+
   |                                                         |
   | We are setting up several regional or national          |
   | registration sites so you can register in your local    |
   | currency. National registration sites have already been |
   | established in the following regions / countries:       |
   |                                                         |
   | Zone 1     - USA / Canada - 1:103/158  - Jim Deputy     |
   | Region 20  - Sweden       - 2:201/329  - Mats Wallin    |
   | Region 23  - Denmark      - 2:231/91   - Jens Fallesen  |
   | Region 24  - Germany      - 2:244/8501 - Joerg Dassler  |
   | Region 25  - UK           - 2:2/999    - Noel Bradford  |
   | Region 26  - Eire         - 2:263/151  - David Doyle    |
   | Region 28  - Netherlands  - 2:512/1    - Peter Janssens |
   | Region 23  - Belguim      - 2:295/49   - Ward Dossche   |
                                                             |
   | Pricing information in local currency will be made      |
   | available a.s.a.p. as magic request name WORLDCON.      |
   |                                                         |
   | If you are prepared to setup a national registration    |
   | site for your country or region then please contact     |
   | Noel Bradford at 2:2/999 as soon as possible.           |
   +---------------------------------------------------------+

                     ************************
                     * The Pricing Schedule *
                     ************************
               All Prices in GBP ( pounds sterling)

                                            +--------+--------+
                                            |Bookings|Bookings|
                                            |Before  |After   |
                                            |July 1  |July 1  |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan A.                                  | 110.00 | 132.00 |
 | All inclusive Package                    |        |        |
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 29                     17 Jun 1991


 | Single Room                              |        |        |
 | 2 Nights                                 |        |        |
 | Per Person                               |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan B                                   | 100.00 | 120.00 |
 | All inclusive Package                    |        |        |
 | Twin room Shared                         |        |        |
 | 2 Nights                                 |        |        |
 | Per Person                               |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan C                                   | 125.00 | 150.00 |
 | All Inclusive Package                    |        |        |
 | Double Room                              |        |        |
 | 2 Nights                                 |        |        |
 | * Special Deal *                         |        |        |
 | Delegate gets full inclusive package and |        |        |
 | partner gets room-only accommodation.    |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan D                                   |  55.00 |  66.00 |
 | All inclusive Package                    |        |        |
 | Single Room                              |        |        |
 | 1 Night ( Saturday )                     |        |        |
 | Per Person                               |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan E                                   |  50.00 |  60.00 |
 | All inclusive Package                    |        |        |
 | Twin room Shared                         |        |        |
 | 1 Night ( Saturday )                     |        |        |
 | Per Person                               |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+


                                            +--------+--------+
                                            |Bookings|Bookings|
                                            |Before  |After   |
                                            |July 1  |July 1  |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan F                                   |  25.00 |  30.00 |
 | Conference only                          |        |        |
 | (Includes Tea/Coffee)                    |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan G                                   |  45.00 |  55.00 |
 | Conference only                          |        |        |
 | (Includes Tea/Coffee AND LUNCH)          |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan H                                   | 100.00 | 110.00 |
 | Non-delegate Program                     |        |        |
 | (Includes Sunday lunch                   |        |        |
 |  Banquet and Coach Trips)                |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan I                                   |  25.00 |  30.00 |
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 30                     17 Jun 1991


 | Banquet                                  |        |        |
 | (Saturday Night)                         |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan J                                   |  35.00 |  40.00 |
 | Bed & Breakfast ONLY                     |        |        |
 | Single Room                              |        |        |
 | Per night                                |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan K                                   |  25.00 |  30.00 |
 | Bed & Breakfast ONLY                     |        |        |
 | Twin Room (Shared)                       |        |        |
 | Per Person Per Night                     |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan L                                   |  50.00 |  60.00 |
 | Bed & Breakfast ONLY                     |        |        |
 | Double Room                              |        |        |
 | 2 persons per night                      |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+
 | Plan M                                   |  40.00 |  45.00 |
 | Coach Trip Only                          |        |        |
 | (includes Lunch & all Admission Charges) |        |        |
 +------------------------------------------+--------+--------+

                      *********************
                      * THE BOOKING FORMS *
                      *********************

    PLEASE NOTE -- THE CLOSING DATE FOR BOOKINGS IS JULY 1st !

          *********************************************
          * Conference & Accomodation Booking Details *
          *********************************************

  Name: ______________________________________________________

  Address: __________________________  Apt. or Suite: ________

  City: ______________________  State or Province: ___________

  Postal Code: __________________  Country: __________________

  Voice Phone: ____________________  Data: ___________________

  Zone:Net/Node.Point@Domain: ________________________________

  Payment by Cheque/Euro-Cheque/Money Order/Bank Transfer

 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | Option | Full  Name   |Qty|Day in|Day out|Pricing| Total |
 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN A |              |   | 26/7 | 28/7  |       |       |
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 31                     17 Jun 1991


 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN B |              |   | 26/7 | 28/7  |       |       |(1)
 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN C |              |   | 26/7 | 28/7  |       |       |(2)
 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN D |              |   | 26/7 |       |       |       |
 +--------+--------------+---+--------------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN E |              |   | 26/7 |       |       |       |
 +--------+--------------+---+--------------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN F |              |   |    N / A     |       |       |(3)
 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN G |              |   |    N / A     |       |       |(4)
 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN H |              |   | 26/7 | 28/7  |       |       |
 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN I |              |   |    N / A     |       |       |(5)
 +--------+--------------+---+------+-------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN J |              |   |      |       |       |       |
 +--------+--------------+---+--------------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN K |              |   |      |       |       |       |
 +--------+--------------+---+--------------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN L |              |   |      |       |       |       |
 +--------+--------------+---+--------------+-------+-------+
 | PLAN M |              |   |      |       |       |       |(6)
 +--------+--------------+---+--------------+*******========|
                                            | Total |       |
                                            -----------------

 * Special requirements: _____________________________________

 * Arrange a room under plan-B for me, I am : male / female
   My roommate should be : smoker / no-smoker / no preference

     I prefer to share my room with : ________________________

 * For my meals, I prefer : vegetarian / non-vegetarian

 * Plan G/L participants name is: ____________________________

  (1) Plan B is based on two people sharing a Twin Room.

  (2) Plan C includes accommodation on a room-only basis for a
      NON delegate ie Wife/Partner. All meals for the Non-
      Delegate are their own responsibility. (however all meals
      except Breakfast are included in Plan G).

  (3) Plan F is for those delegates who wish to arrange their own
      accommodation and lunches and so just includes Tea/coffee,
      and Conference Fees.

  (4) Plan G is for those delegates who wish to arrange their own
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 32                     17 Jun 1991


      accommodation and so just includes Lunches/tea/coffee, and
      Conference Fees.

  (5) Plan I is for those who are on Plan F or Plans J/K/L that
      wish to attend the Banquet on Saturday Evening (This is
      included in Plans A/B/C/D).

  (6) Plan M is just the Coach tour element of Plan H including
      Lunch. This tour departs from the hotel at 10am.

                     ************************
                     * Booking Confirmation *
                     ************************

I wish to confirm this as a FIRM BOOKING and that it is subject
to the cancellation conditions as set out above, to which I agree
to be bound. I understand that the booking wi
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Draft FidoNet Election Policy                Revision: 31-Mar-91
Luke Kolin, 1:250/714@fidonet.org

 As a recognition that FidoNet is based on democratic principles, the
positions of the NC and RC shall be made elective. The following is an
election policy that intends to fulfill the democratic intent of
FidoNet.

1) Glossary of Terms

"Elected Officer"  Any elected NC or RC.

"Immediate         The administrator one level higher in the FidoNet
 Superior"         hierarchy. For example, an NC's immediate superior
                   would be the RC, a ZC's would be the IC.

"Returning System" The equivelant of Chief Electoral Officer. It is
                   the sysop of this system who will post notices
                   advising eligible sysops as to who is running and
                   the close of the election, will count the ballots
                   and announce a winner.

"Semi-Secret       This is a ballot where a voter's choice is known
      Ballot"      only by the returning system, and by any routing
                   systems that the returning officer may designate.
                   A voter sends his ballot in with a password. At
                   the close of the election, the returning system
                   will post a list of passwords and the votes asso-
                   ciated with them. Voters may then check to see
                   that their password and votes have been received.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 33                     17 Jun 1991


2) Calling of an Election

 a) An election for a position shall be required by notice of one of
    the following events being given:

        i) Resignation of an elected officer;
       ii) An elected officer seeking a renewed mandate.

 b) An elected officer who has resigned may appoint another sysop to
    act in his stead during the election; however, this interim officer
    must be ratified by the interim officer's immediate superior. He
    may     act as a returning system, as outlined in sections 1c and d.

 c) Within three (3) days of this occurring, a formal call of election
    must be given by the immediate superior of the position that shall
    be voted upon, stating:

        i) The date of the election;
       ii) The name of the returning system.

 d) An election must take place within thirty-two (32) days of the
    formal call of election, and every reasonable effort must be made
    to select a returning system acceptable to all.

 3) Voter Eligibility

 a) All sysops listed in the FidoNet nodelist as of twenty-one (21)
    full days before the close of the election are entitled to vote.

 b) All sysops get one (1) vote only.

 c) In network-specific elections, only sysops listed in that network
    and meeting requirement 2a) are entitled to vote.

 4) Voter Notification

 a) All elections shall be conducted via a semi-secret ballot. The
    identity of the voter shall be known only to the returning system.

 b) The returning system must post a public message in the REG12 echo
    informing all systems of:

        i) The date of the vote;
       ii) The position being voted on;
      iii) The returning system's address;

    no less than thirty (30) days before the close of the election by
    the counting of the ballots.

 c) All eligible sysops will receive a netmail message from the
    returning system informing them of:

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 34                     17 Jun 1991


        i) The date/time ballots must be received by;
       ii) The position being voted on;
      iii) The candidates;
       iv) The returning system's address;
        v) Valid systems to route their ballot through.

    no less than ten (10) full days before the end of the election by
    the counting of the ballots. After this message is sent out,
    ballots will be accepted by the returning system.

 d) Systems unable to receive the message in 3c) will have a message
    of notification placed in the REG12 echo no less than seven (7)
    full days before the end of the election by the counting of the
    ballots.

 5) Candidate Eligibility

 a) All candidates for the position being voted on must have been
    listed in the FidoNet nodelist as of twenty-one (21) days before
    the close of the election.

 b) Candidates must register by sending a message of intent to the
    returning system's address no less than fourteen (14) full days
    before the end of the election by the counting of the ballots.

 c) All candidates have the right to post up to three (3) messages
    per week about their candidacy in the REG12 area and the admin-
    istrative area of each network.

 d) No one may prevent any candidate from posting an equal number of
    advertising messages than another.

 6) Voting Procedure, Election Results, and Enforcement

 a) All ballots must be in by the closing date and time specified in
    all the notices given.

 b) All ballots must have a sysop name, address, and an alphanumeric
    password of nine (9) characters or less.

 c) To avoid toll charges, ballots may be routed through any system
    listed in the notice specified in 3c).

 d) The returning system must acknowlege the receipt of each ballot,
    but since this receipt can be routed, it should not indicate either
    the password or choice given in the ballot.

 e) The returning system must acknowledge the results of the election
    by providing a message:

         i) Listing all the nodes who voted;
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 35                     17 Jun 1991


        ii) Providing a list of passwords and their vote;
       iii) Providing a total for each candidate;
        iv) Providing a total of abstentions;
         v) Providing the total number of eligible systems.

    to be posted in the REG12 echo, as well as forwarded to all the NCs
    in Region 12, no more than three (3) days after the close of the
    election.

 f) To be declared the winner, a candidate must receive a simple
    plurality of all the votes cast.

 g) Any complaints or violations of this elections policy should be
    reported to the returning system. The returning system and the
    immediate superior of the position being voted upon shall rule
    on any complaints. They have the option of anulling any results
    and calling a new election.

 7) Ratification Votes

 Ratification votes shall be conducted in a similar matter to the
 election of a *C with the following differences:

 a) The RC shall designate a sysop as returning officer, and shall
    issue a formal notice of a ratification vote which shall be the
    same as in Section 3c) of this policy, except that the name of
    the candidates shall be replaced by the name of the document
    being ratified. This shall be issued no less than fourteen (14)
    days before the close of the election.

 b) Eligibility requirements, ballots, and tabulation are the same as
    for any other election.

 8) Miscellaneous

 a) In this document, the male implies the female, the singular implies
    the plural, etc., etc., except where it wouldn't make sense.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Winter
FidoNet 1:151/208 209

Preface:  The purpose of my writings here is not to necessarily
"convert" or hassle anyone who is content in their current
lifestyle or religion;  but rather, to show what the real Biblical
criteria for Christianity is and thereby expose those who are
conning others.  Whether they are conning people financially or
socially, false preachers and false Christians are doing great harm
to their fellow man.
Just a basic elementary Bible knowledge could keep current and future
"Jim & Tammy" types from conning anyone or stealing a penny (they
weren't even teaching the real Bible message, EVER).

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 36                     17 Jun 1991


           The 'Re-Birth of water' IS Jesus name baptism.

I hope to herein expose one of the major lies that false preachers
are teaching these days.  If I seem emotional, it's just that I hate
to see people being conned. In John 3:5, Jesus told a full grown man
that he needed to be born again of a spiritual birth which consisted
of water and spirit. (notice two distinct elements WATER and SPIRIT).

Satan has many misinformed, and some knowingly deceiving false
preachers that teach that the "birth of the water" refers to a man's
physical birth (since there is a watery fluid involved at birth).
That teaching is one of the cheapest, cop out, deceptions in Satan's
arsenal to deceive people about the IMPORTANCE of baptism.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a
man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the
kingdom of God.

Notice that Jesus was declaring what a MAN had to do (not a baby),
and that Jesus was referring to a RE-BIRTH; being BORN AGAIN.  He
could not have been referring to the fluids of a baby's birth.  He
was telling a grown MAN how to be BORN AGAIN.  Oh, it sounds real
convincing to look at it as "physical birth", unless you consider
that he was talking to a grown MAN telling him how to be RE-BORN.

If that isn't enough to convince you, then just look at how WATER
and SPIRIT are BOTH elements in the plan of salvation that was
preached by Peter at the beginning of the new testament church:

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every
one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

According to the Bible, Jesus name Baptism is what washes away sins,
(remission of sins).  Let's notice carefully this next verse:

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and
wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Then, if you are still not convinced let's look at another verse that
Jesus spoke (and I certainly pray that you will not suggest that a
non-believer would even consider Jesus name water baptism).

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he
that believeth not shall be damned.

Seek how the same God that said Water was part of the RE-BIRTH also
declared "and is baptized",  how could the Bible be any clearer?

Remember, Jesus was talking to a GROWN MAN telling him about a
RE-BIRTH, and, as a matter of fact, babies are born IN water,
NOT 'OF' Water.. Don't be Deceived.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 37                     17 Jun 1991


           Steve Winter - [moderator HOLY_BIBLE]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 38                     17 Jun 1991


======================================================================
                           RANTS AND FLAMES
======================================================================

            _(*#$_(*@#(*     (*^$+)#(%&+|      #$)%(&*#_$   @_#(  @$
       ^@#+)(#&%$*+)$%&*+$*%&#@(@#_|)*%|)#%&)#*%&+(@#&*_+(@#*^&@###
   *&#_($*&#$_(*#&$_(#*$&$ _(#$*#$+)#($&*+#)$            &#+$*&#
  ()*&#$_(&^#$_(#*$_#($^&#_$(^&#_$(&^#$_(&#^  damn right   _(#^&$_(#^&
 $*&#$_+(*             #)$&(%($%+)($%*+$)%($*   it's ugly   _#&%^#  &
#($_*#$_   FidoNet        (*$&%_@#_(*&@#_(@*#&_           @#_(*&@#_(*
)*&#$           Flames        *^$+)#(%  (not for the timid) @_#(
(*#$_(*^@#+)             and     #_|)*%         &+(@#&*_+(@#*^&@###
(#$*&#_($*&#$_(*#&$_(#*                   Rants    *&+#$*&#+$*&#
   )*&#$_(a regular feature)^&#_$(&^#$_              $^&#$_(#^
        (*^#$_*#^&$)*#&$^%)#*$&^_#($*^&#_($   Section   #&%^_
       _(*#&$_(#*   #($*&   #$*   _(*&@#_(@*#           *&@#_(*&
                                        )&*+_)*&+)*&+))&*(*&
                                               (*&_(*&_(*&



----------------------------------------------------------------------


David Rice
Last Known Whereabouts:
1:103/903.0 The Astro-Net


IIII  deplore and condemn such programs as EDMEESE and EXCLUDE, which
 II   nukes or otherwise removes or restricts =LOCAL= message traffic on
IIII  a BBS. It is my opinion that when a user sends or posts a message,
      it "should" be available for the rest of the users to view. Of
course what messages exists on a SysOps' BBS is her / his business; they
are quite autarchic; what messages they choose not to post for THAT NODE'S
users is their choice. The other scenario, where a SysOp might remove
=Echo Mail= is, of course, immoral, unethical, and should be dealt
swiftly and sternly by the FidoNet hierarchy; it is not the lone
SysOp's right, let alone "duty," to censor material destined for other
nodes without DAMN GOOD reason (also just my opinion-- not FidoLaw (tm)
"yet"). Fortunately, the cases of the later have been few.

    That said (and I hope clearly), I also applaud the new editor of
FidoNews, Tom Jennings, for choosing to publish "all" articles that are
submitted (within very broad specifications, most being technical and
not political--- thank Goddess!).

    Which is why I also applaud Jenning's publications of Steve
Winter's occult diatribes (and in the case of FNews 8-23, Winter's
paranoid tirade concerning "religious persecutions"). One person's
"spreading the word(s)" is another person's "excessively annoying
behavior," and Tom wisely left it up to us, the readers, to decide
which is which.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 39                     17 Jun 1991


    He also leaves it up to the System Operators to pay good money to
spread Winter's occultism, even when it is against their ethical and
moral principles.

    Take for an instance the article on "speaking in tongues," which
I'm very sure 96% of the system operators who had to foot the bill
spreading such sophistic, irrational tripe would rather avoid. I could
choose to be almost as annoying as Winter and post some facts about
glossolalia, and how studies demonstrate that such speakers are
actually speaking their native languages modified only by severe
guttural stops, and in passing note the fact that many people "speak in
tongues" when they orgasm; but then it may be just as excessively
annoying as Winter's occult harangues.

    Which makes me wonder something. Since Winter is the moderator of a
Christian occultism echo, which presumably is available to all
interested parties--- why does he subject his occultism on those who
have no interest in it? Surely if someone were interested, one would
just get the echo.

    I again applaud the policy of FidoNews publishing "everything." I
do not wish to see this policy change, even though this means Steve
Winter will probably continue burdening us with his vivid
hallucinations and public bible masturbations. Please file these
comments from me under "food for thought."

    To summarize. Censorship is "wrong" in my opinion. And yet it is
also "wrong" to have several thousand system operators ship material
around that they feel is against their principles. We have a stake in
promoting rational, logical thinking, and yet we also have a stake in
allowing illogical, irrational thinkers like Winter to speak as they
please. This right is a two-edges sword, that must cut both ways.

    Do you object to Steve Winter's occult hysteria in FidoNews? Send
a letter to HIM instead of the editor, complaining. It is Winter's job
to restrain his fevered rants, not Ton Jennings' job to censor them.

----------------------------------------------------------------------


Speaking In Verse: Proposed change to editorial policy in
                   regards to articles of questionable
                   merit to FidoNews.

Brennan O'Brien
Sysop: Palomar's Halo BBS  1:105/302   (503)641-9476

        I've been reading FNews for about a year now, off amd
on.  Usually, I don't have any guff with anything that is said,
but there was an article in Fnews823 that really got to me.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 40                     17 Jun 1991


        It is my personal belief that FidoNews is one of the
most useful means of transmitting data "from above" to "the
masses" that is available to us.  It serves as an information
piece, a forum, and a platform to ballon new policies.

        FNews823 was filled with useful commentary and
discussion, as usual.  There was, however, one piece that did
bother me.  The article by Steve Winters in Re: Speaking in
Tounges.  I believe firmly in religious freedom of expression,
in the correct place.  There was no part of the article that I
could find that was of any value in regards to FidoNet as a
community and technology  (Sidebar:  Not to say that the
article lacked any value, just not that which I felt contributed
to the knowledge of FidoNet operators in regards to our State
of The Net.).

        I would ask formally that the editors loosely examine
articles for relevence to FidoNet as a whole.  I don't expect
FNews to become a forum for debate of topics that don't effect
the operations or future of FidoNet.  There are places aplenty
in modemland and FidoNet to take up these discussions (Religion,
Sexual Affinity, Abortion, and Politics to name a few).  Fnews
CERTAINLY does not need to deal with these issues in order to
insure proper coverage.

        I say loosely examine the articles because there are
many that surely come in that have limited merit.  Essentially,
I am requesting a clarification be made towards an article
with LIMITED apparent merit and NO apparent merit.  This
distinction is much like that of "excessively annoying" in that
it is difficult to codify.  But, there are some obvious
guidelines:

        Topics related to telecommunications, FidoNet, and the
history and future thereof, including the social, cultural,
economic and political dynamics of modeming are always of
reasonable merit.

        Topics related to "Adventures in Modemland", inclusive
of troubles, difficulties, heartwarming moments, etc. are of
reasonable merit.

        Topics related to ethics, mores, behavior and other
aspects of psychology and sociology, when related to
telecommunications/FidoNet, are of reasonable merit.

        Topics which are not related to (except by a stretch of
the imagination) any of the above qualifiers are to be
considered without merit, and their publication may be
restricted at the decision of the FNews editor(s).

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 41                     17 Jun 1991


        Now, you may be asking why I want to make this sort of
distinction.  Do I want to "BAN" articles such as "Speaking"
from Fido?  No.  Not at all.  What I do want is a place where I
can read the "What's Going On" stuff WITHOUT having to read the
"hard moral issues" of religion, politics, abortion, etc.  There
are a mass of places on my BBS, on other BBS', and on FidoNet in
general, where I can CHOOSE to go someplace and read these hard
hitting issues.  Please, give me a place where I don't have to.

---

/* "Please, give me a place where I don't have to [choose]."
Pretty much says it all. Sorry, I don't let people off
that easy :-)      -- tomj */

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 42                     17 Jun 1991


======================================================================
                             CLASSIFIEDS
======================================================================

ADVERTISEMENT POLICY: Submissions must be 20 lines or less each,
maximum two ads per advertiser, 70 characters per line maximum. No
control codes except CR and LF. (Refer to contact info at the end of
this newsletter for details.)

Please notify us if you have any trouble with an advertiser. FidoNews
does not endorse any products or services advertised here.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 43                     17 Jun 1991


======================================================================
                               NOTICES
======================================================================

ICDM HQ
1:352/777
77:1/0

                          PUBLIC APOLOGY

I apologize to anyone who has been inconvenienced by an emergency
change in my phone number.  The nodelist has not been updated,
but my phone number has been changed.  At the same time that this
happened, I advertised that you can call my system and file
request ICDM for info on the ICDM Network.  Well, since the
nodelist is incorrect, you can't file request.  (You can Host-
Route a netmail, though, direct to 352/0).  If you desire to file
request info, you may want to override the nodelist for this
week.  The old number for 1:352/777 is 1-206-666-9113.  The new
number is 1-206-866-3621.

In case you do not know what info I am refering to, here is a
summary:

               Notice:  Invitation to Carry ICDM Net

There has begun a new, auxiliary network, which has as a purpose
the linking of persons interested in religion.  This is a
specialized Network, aimed at bridging cultures, and enlightening
participants on the faiths of others.

It is open to any board that is FidoNet compatible.  It is
compiled as a separate Zone (77), so your software must be Zone
aware.  It is open to any faith, any person, regardless of sex,
creed, color, etc. etc.

The HOST is Tomas Hood, 1:352/777, the Zone 77 Co-ordinator.
There may be connections close to you, and as we grow, there will
surely be!

For more information, send netmail to 1:352/777, and request ICDM,
which is an information packet.

Thanks for your interest and we look forward to hearing from you.
And, thanks for understanding the problem with my phone number
chages.

-=Tomas Hood=-


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 44                     17 Jun 1991


The Interrupt Stack


26 Jul 1991
WORLDCON '91 -- July 26-28 -- The First Global Fidonet Conference -
London England. Details From 2:25/102 or 1:103/158  freq magic name
WORLDCON.

15 Aug 1991
 8 Sep 1991
 7 Oct 1991
Area code 415 fragments. Alameda and Contra Costa Counties will begin
using area code 510. This includes Oakland, Concord, Berkeley and
Hayward. San Francisco, San Mateo, Marin, parts of Santa Clara County,
and the San Francisco Bay Islands will retain area code 415.

 1 Nov 1991
Area code 301 will split. Area code 410 will consist of the
northeastern part of Maryland, as well as the eastern shore. This will
include Baltimore and the surrounding area. Area 301 will include
southern and western parts of the state, including the areas around
Washington DC. Area 410 phones will answer to calls to area 301 until
November, 1992.

 1 Feb 1992
Area code 213 fragments. Western, coastal, southern and eastern
portions of Los Angeles County will begin using area code 310. This
includes Los Angeles International Airport, West Los Angeles, San
Pedro and Whittier. Downtown Los Angeles and surrounding communities
(such as Hollywood and Montebello) will retain area code 213.

 1 Dec 1993
Tenth anniversary of Fido Version 1 release.

 5 Jun 1997
David Dodell's 40th Birthday


If you have something which you would like to see on this calendar,
please send a message to FidoNet node 1:1/1.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Please add this entry to the FidoNet utilities section of FidoNews.
Message Master (refered to as MsgMstr) is a FTSC-type message editor
for Windows v3.0 and PC-based machines.  It is at v1.21.  Please list
it as:

        MsgMstr v1.21

in the appropriate format for FidoNews.

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 45                     17 Jun 1991


Thanks...Will Schlichtman
1:350/59
the author

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tomas Hood
FidoNet 1:352/777
ICDM Network 77:77/1

                    FINEARTS ECHO NOW AVAILABLE!

FINEARTS is a conference for anyone who enjoys the Fine Arts,
from Theatre to Poetry, Painting or Sculpure, and all in between.
This is for the person who performs, or simply enjoys.  This is
an open conference.  We pass on film festival info, talk about
Longfellow, or discuss oil painting.  Join us!

It is, at present, a non-backbone Echo Hosted and Moderated by
Tomas Hood [1:352/777].  Initial links will be provided from this
system to any and all who request same.  However, it is about to
become part of Region 17's available echoes.  If there is enough
of a demand, it can possibly be negotiated onto the backbone.

The Echo is open to anyone who desires to discuss the topic of
the Fine Arts.

A sample of the first few messages and the statement of purpose
of the Echo is available as FNART (majyk name for FNART.ARJ)
from this system anytime.  The ARJ archive utility is also
available as "ARJ," if you wish to get an idea of whether to
commit disk space to the Echo.

I hope you will join us or ask your Sysop to request a link
via Netmail to 1:352/777.

Cheers!
Tomas Hood


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 46                     17 Jun 1991


======================================================================
                           LATEST VERSIONS
======================================================================

Latest Software Versions

                         MS-DOS Systems
                         --------------

                      Bulletin Board Software
Name        Version    Name        Version    Name       Version

DMG            2.93    Phoenix         1.3    TAG           2.5g
Fido            12t+   QuickBBS       2.66    TBBS           2.1
GSBBS          3.02    RBBS          17.3B    TComm/TCommNet 3.4
Lynx           1.30    RBBSmail      17.3B    Telegard       2.5
Kitten         2.16    RemoteAccess   1.01*   TPBoard        6.1
Maximus        1.02    SLBBS         1.77A    Wildcat!      2.55
Opus           1.14+   Socrates       1.10    WWIV          4.12
PCBoard        14.5a   SuperBBS       1.10    XBBS          1.17

Network                Node List              Other
Mailers     Version    Utilities   Version    Utilities  Version

BinkleyTerm    2.40    EditNL         4.00    ARC            7.0
D'Bridge       1.30    MakeNL         2.31    ARCAsim       2.30
Dutchie       2.90C    ParseList      1.30    ARCmail       2.07
FrontDoor      2.00    Prune          1.40    ConfMail      4.00
InterMail      2.01*   SysNL          3.14    Crossnet      v1.5
PRENM          1.47    XlatList       2.90    DOMAIN        1.42
SEAdog         4.60*   XlaxDiff       2.40*   EMM           2.02
TIMS      1.0(Mod8)    XlaxNode       2.40*   4Dog/4DMatrix 1.18
                                              Gmail         2.05
                                              GROUP         2.16
                                              GUS           1.30
                                              HeadEdit      1.18
                                              IMAIL         1.10
                                              InterPCB      1.31
                                              LHARC         1.13
                                              MSG            4.1
                                              MSGED         2.06
                                              MSGTOSS        1.3
                                              Oliver        1.0a
                                              PK[UN]ZIP     1.10
                                              PolyXarc      2.1a*
                                              QM             1.0
                                              QSORT         4.03
                                              ScanToss      1.28
                                              Sirius        1.0x
                                              SLMAIL        1.36
                                              StarLink      1.01
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 47                     17 Jun 1991


                                              TagMail       2.41
                                              TCOMMail       2.2
                                              Telemail      1.27
                                              TMail         1.21
                                              TPBNetEd       3.2
                                              TosScan       1.00
                                              UFGATE        1.03
                                              XRS           4.50*
                                              XST           2.3e
                                              ZmailH        1.14


                           OS/2 Systems
                           ------------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Maximus-CBCS       1.02   BinkleyTerm  2.40   Parselst      1.32
                                              ConfMail      4.00
                                              EchoStat       6.0
                                              oMMM          1.52
                                              Omail          3.1
                                              MsgEd         2.06
                                              MsgLink       1.0C
                                              MsgNum        4.14
                                              LH2           0.50
                                              PK[UN]ZIP     1.02
                                              ARC2          6.00
                                              PolyXarc      2.1a*
                                              Qsort          2.1
                                              Raid           1.0
                                              Remapper       1.2
                                              Tick           2.0
                                              VPurge        2.07


                            Xenix/Unix 386
                            --------------

BBS Software                  Mailers         Other Utilities
Name             Version  Name      Version   Name       Version

                          BinkleyTerm 2.32B   Unzip         3.10
                                              ARC           5.21
                                              ParseLst      1.32
                                              Vpurge        4.08
     [Contact: Jon Hogan-Duran 3:711/909,     Ommm          1.42
      Willy Paine 1:343/15, Eddy van Loo      Msged         2.06
      2:285/406]                              Zoo           2.01
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 48                     17 Jun 1991


                                              C-Lharc       1.00
                                              Omail         1.00
                                              MSGREN
                                              MSGLNK        1.01


                              Apple II
                             ----------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

GBBS Pro            2.1   Fruity Dog    2.0*  ShrinkIt      3.23
DDBBS +             7.4*                      ShrinkIt GS   1.04
                                              deARC2e       2.1
                                              ProSel        8.69*


                            Apple CP/M
                            ----------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Daisy               v2j   Daisy Mailer 0.38   Nodecomp      0.37
                                              MsgUtil        2.5
                                              PackUser        v4
                                              Filer         v2-D
                                              UNARC.COM     1.20


                            Macintosh
                            ---------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Red Ryder Host      2.1   Tabby         2.2   MacArc         0.04
Mansion            7.15   Copernicus    1.0   ArcMac          1.3
WWIV (Mac)          3.0                       LHArc          0.41
Hermes              1.5                       StuffIt Classic 1.6
FBBS               0.91                       Compact Pro    1.30
Precision Systems 0.95b*                      TImport        1.92
TeleFinder Host 2.12T10                       TExport        1.92
                                              Timestamp       1.6
                                              Tset            1.3
                                              Import          3.2
                                              Export         3.21
Point System Software                         Sundial         3.2
FidoNews 8-24                  Page 49                     17 Jun 1991


                                              PreStamp        3.2
Name            Version                       OriginatorII    2.0
                                              AreaFix         1.6
Copernicus          1.0                       Mantissa       3.21
CounterPoint       1.09                       Zenith          1.5
                                              Eventmeister    1.0
                                              TSort           1.0
                                              Mehitable       2.0
                                              UNZIP         1.02c
                                              Zip Extract    0.10

                              Amiga
                              -----

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Falcon CBBS        0.45   BinkleyTerm  1.00   AmigArc       0.23
Paragon           2.082+  TrapDoor     1.50   AReceipt       1.5
TransAmiga         1.07   WelMat       0.44   booz          1.01
                                              ConfMail      1.12
                                              ChameleonEdit 0.10
                                              ElectricHerald1.66
                                              Lharc         1.30
                                              Login         0.18
                                              MessageFilter 1.52
                                              oMMM         1.49b
                                              ParseLst      1.64
                                              PkAX          1.00
                                              PolyxAmy      2.02
                                              RMB           1.30
                                              Roof         44.03
                                              RoboWriter    1.02
                                              Rsh           4.06
                                              Skyparse      2.30
                                              Tick          0.75
                                              TrapList      1.12
                                              UNZIP         1.31
                                              Yuck!         1.61
                                              Zippy (Unzip) 1.25
                                              Zoo           2.01

                           Atari ST/TT
                           -----------

Bulletin Board         Network                Node List
Software    Version    Mailer      Version    Utilities  Version

FIDOdoor/ST   2.3.2*   BinkleyTerm   2.40l    ParseList     1.30
QuickBBS/ST    1.02    The BOX        1.20    Xlist         1.12
Pandora BBS   2.41c                           EchoFix       1.20
GS Point       0.61                           sTICK/Hatch   5.50
LED ST         1.00
MSGED         1.96S

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 50                     17 Jun 1991


Archiver               Msg Format             Other
Utilities   Version    Converters  Version    Utilities  Version

LHARC          0.60    TB2BINK        1.00    ConfMail      4.03
LHARC2         3.18    BINK2TB        1.00    ComScan       1.02
ARC            6.02    FiFo           2.1n*   Import        1.14
PKUNZIP        1.10                           OMMM          1.40
                                              Pack          1.00
                                              FastPack      1.20
                                              FDrenum      2.2.7
                                              Trenum        0.10

                           Archimedes
                           ----------

BBS Software           Mailers                Utilities
Name        Version    Name        Version    Name       Version

ARCbbs         1.44    BinkleyTerm    2.03    Unzip        2.1TH
                                              ARC           1.03
                                              !Spark       2.00d

                                              ParseLst      1.30
                                              BatchPacker   1.00


+ Netmail capable (does not require additional mailer software)
* Recently changed

Utility authors: Please help keep this list up to date by
reporting new versions to 1:1/1. It is not our intent to list
all utilities here, only those which verge on necessity.

/* NOTE: Until 1 Aug 1991 versions are on "hold" til the editor gets
back and finds a volunteer to maintain this file.  -- tomj */

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-24                  Page 51                     17 Jun 1991


------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Periello
Special thanks to Ken Kaplan, 1:100/22, aka Fido #22

"FidoNews" BBS
    FidoNet  1:1/1
    Internet  fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
    BBS  (415)-863-2739  (9600 HST/V32)

(Postal Service mailing address)
    FidoNews
    Box 77731
    San Francisco
    CA 94107 USA

Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.




FidoNews is copyright 1991 Fido Software. All rights reserved.
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews (we're
easy).



OBTAINING COPIES: FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from
the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from
various sites in the FidoNet and via uucp. PRINTED COPIES mailed
may be obtained from Fido Software for $5.00US each PostPaid First
Class within North America, or $7.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail.
(US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)

Periodic subscriptions are not available at this time; if enough
people request it I will implement it.


SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/1 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC".


FidoNews 8-24                  Page 52                     17 Jun 1991


"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings of Fido Software, Box 77731, San Francisco
CA 94107, USA and are used with permission.

-- END

----------------------------------------------------------------------

