F I D O  N E W S --         |        Vol. 8 No. 29 (22 July 1991)
  The newsletter of the     |
  FidoNet BBS community     |        Published by:
          _                 |
         /  \               |       "FidoNews" BBS
        /|oo \              |          (415)-863-2739
       (_|  /_)             |          FidoNet 1:1/1
        _`@/_ \    _        |          Internet: 
       |     | \   \\       |           fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
       | (*) |  \   ))      |
       |__U__| /  \//       |        Editors:
        _//|| _\   /        |          Tom Jennings
       (_/(_|(____/         |          Tim Pozar
             (jm)           |
----------------------------+---------------------------------------
Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international 
amateur network. Copyright 1991, Fido Software. All rights reserved. 
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes 
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews.

Paper price:   . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $5.00US
Electronic Price:  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .  free!

For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file.
--------------------------------------------------------------------


                          Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL  .....................................................  1
   The Editor is back, hide your silverware  ......................  1
2. FIDONET NEWS  ..................................................  4
   (No FidoNetNews this week)  ....................................  4
3. ARTICLES  ......................................................  5
   Nodelist Problems and Suggestions  .............................  5
   Will 80x86-based computers soon be obsolete?  ..................  6
   NET 231 "NC" ELECTION HELD  .................................... 14
   RSA's MailSafe  ................................................ 15
4. RANTS AND FLAMES  .............................................. 16
   Journey to The Banana Republic  ................................ 16
   Putting a Sock in it  .......................................... 20
   Televangelist, Bread and Circuses  ............................. 22
5. CLASSIFIEDS  ................................................... 26
6. NOTICES  ....................................................... 27
   The Interrupt Stack  ........................................... 27
7. LATEST VERSIONS  ............................................... 30
   Latest Software Versions  ...................................... 30
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 1                      22 Jul 1991


======================================================================
                              EDITORIAL
======================================================================

The Editor is back, hide your silverware
by Tom Jennings

OK, I'm back. I know I said 1 August, but that was simply my upper bound. I
got back a few days ago (whatever that means in an electronic newsletter)
and I'm typing this mere hours before it has to go out, so it's a
bit rushed this week. Apologies.

                                * * * * *

I had a great time on my road trip! Mainly I drove around in New Mexico and
Utah. Car ran fine, one breakdown: the LPG tank filler check valve, which
had been giving me trouble since last October, finally stuck, luckily, 15
miles from an LPG vehicle specialist (and friendly nut), Randall's Repair
in Farmington NM. He replaced the errant part in under an hour, and solved
my long-term problem at the same time.

I guess I'm assuming you know I have this weird propane powered Rambler I
built as an alternative-energy construction project last year, and wrote a
small booklet, "Do-It-Yourself Automotive LPG Conversion" ($5 from World
Power Systems, Box 77731, San Francisco CA 94107). I gathered lots of great
info on this trip, which I'll eventually revise the book with.

More on this later. Back to FidoNews.

                                * * * * *

FIDONEWS STUFF:

I received an article named LOGICWAR.ART. It has no author or node address.
While that's not required for inclusion in FidoNews, it is when I need to
contact the author regarding changes. Which this needs. Whoever you are:
please shorten it, or serialize it. 17K is too long! Also, please take out
all the WordStar-style fake "justification" spaces -- it fills up the
disk and is hard to read!

I will not have the utility-versions section up-to-date in this issue. I
found a volunteer mere hours before I left in June, and he wasn't fully
informed before I left. David French (1:103/950) will be doing update
duties, though you can continue to send update requests to 1:1/1 until we
work out something. If you do not see your changes, chances are I lost
your update request. Please send it again.

And truly, thank you to all the volunteers. There were dozens! Some "old-
timers", some relatively new sysops. I picked someone relatively new, the
more people involved the better!

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 2                      22 Jul 1991


I will indeed honor requests for printed copies of FidoNews. Please read
the back-matter in this issue. Prepaid only, I will not bill you!

                                * * * * *

POLICY STUFF: (Not critical hard info)

When I took over editorship of FidoNews six weeks or so ago, I started some
changes which were interrupted by my road trip. By no means have I
forgotten them. To reiterate, my intent is to have the "official" written
policy be wide-open, but the socially-endorsed one be: let's stick to
communications-related subjects.

There is a lesson with the subtlety of a brick in this tempest-in-a-teapot
regarding "inappropriate" articles in FidoNews, which I will spell out
because so seem to be missing it.

---> That the "responses" and last-word-in's are far, far larger, and
ultimately more embarrassing to their authors, than the original so-called
problem(s). In other words, let 'em lie. In case no one noticed 8/28, or
this one, doesn't have one! And 22,203+ bytes in this issue alone are
last-word-in's/rants/flames!

Why the written vs. social policy above? I have been accused of having
"agendas" for FidoNews. Oh horrors! Damn right, and it is this: that
everyone -- everyone -- have access to this communications tool we are
building. When the narrow-minded see things they dislike or don't or won't
understand, they want it removed, to maintain some sort of TV-like even
blandness. In fact, they would remove everything not to their personal
liking.

This is a communications medium, and you may see things you may not like.
Believe me, so do I. But the world isn't a TV-set, and the
suburban/professional/drive to work/mall/TV/new car, life/reality filter is
as artificial and as valid as any other world view, and no more or less.
(Before you consider that an insult, you should know I consider those
things to be in my reality filter, too.)

Too many things are excluded routinely, without thought. I would rather
initially make the *opposite* mistake, for it is more easily fixed, and
less harmful. Also keep in mind that things are changing greatly here, and
yelling only makes things worse.

Write or get others to write the kind of things you *want* to see in
FidoNews, rather than complaining. It's more interesting and unusual, and
people will love you for it. (Me included.) Don't forget this is an
expirimental amateur network -- not a commercial venture!

                                * * * * *

So long for now -- I have to go format this disk-filler we call a
newsletter.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 3                      22 Jul 1991


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 4                      22 Jul 1991


======================================================================
                             FIDONET NEWS
======================================================================

################################################################

FidoNetNews -- a weekly section devoted to technical and factual
issues within the FidoNet -- FidoNet Technical Standards Committee
reports, *C reports, information on FidoNet standards documents
and the like.

################################################################


----------------------------------------------------------------------


There were no FidoNetNews submissions this week. Tune again in
next week!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 5                      22 Jul 1991


======================================================================
                               ARTICLES
======================================================================


NODELIST PROBLEMS AND SUGGESTIONS
by Richard Bash - 161/357; Castro Valley, California


There have been many comments, both locally and within FidoNews,
about the Fido nodelist. I would like to throw out a couple of ideas
for the numerous Fido SysOps and "management" to consider.

The current nodelist version I have is NODELIST.193 and it now takes
up a mere 986,116 bytes of otherwise valuable disk space. "No
problem," you sophisticated SysOps say. "Merely run it through the
XYZ nodelist trimmer and you're in business!" Friend, that solution
begs the question. The problem is that the nodelist is too darn big
and when compressed with PKZIP will no longer even fit on a 360K
disk. Countless hours (and dollars) are spent transmitting entire
copies of the nodelist (crazy but true) and DIFF files around the
world. For what possible reason? "So that the SysOp may have a
complete nodelist," is the usual response I hear. It is time to
reconsider that.

I submit that the vast majority of entries in the nodelist are those
of nodes within the United States. It makes sense at this juncture to
create a separate United States nodelist. That would necessitate
having Canada become a different zone (currently they are in Zone 1)
but that is merely a minor annoyance. After all, Mexico butts up
against the United States and they are not in Zone 1. Canada's nodes
are growing in number and they should be separate in any event.

Thus I suggest that two nodelists be created, designated however the
powers that be see fit. One nodelist would contain nothing but the
nodes within the 50 American states and the second nodelist would
contain all other nodes.

I am not xenophobic (fear of foreigners), by any means. The nodelist
has now simply grown far larger than Tom Jennings and his colleagues
ever expected to see it.

The vast majority of U.S. nodes have no need for a nodelist
containing all the nodes in Hong Kong or Sweden. Nor, to continue the
example, do many of our Swedish or Hong Kong brothers and sisters
have any reason to have a nodelist containing the ever growing number
of California and Texas nodes.

Immediately there will be hell to pay for sounding this idea. There
are several Canadian nodes listed for Michigan hubs who won't like
this proposal (life is unfair), there are surely old duffs (I qualify
for that title as well) who will say that it's kind of nice to have
the "family" together (the "family" has outgrown the house; surely
these objectors do not have a Manhattan and Los Angeles phone book as
well as their local one) and there will be those who say it is a lot
of work (maintaining the current size of the nodelist is a lot of
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 6                      22 Jul 1991


work).

I hope that, in addition to seriously partying, those powers that be
within Fido will spend some of their time at the Colorado FidoNet
Convention discussing ways to separate this nodelist and arrive at an
amenable solution. It has to happen sooner or later. The nodelist
will continue to grow (hopefully). As any obstetrician knows, if
circumcision must be performed, it is far better to perform it early
than later. Thus it is time to get out the scalpel and start surgery
on this nodelist.

Your constructive ideas are welcome via netmail, letter or as follow-
up articles in FidoNews. Thank you for your attention.



Respectfully submitted,



Richard Bash - 1:161/357
Combat Arms BBS SysOp
2869 Grove Way
Castro Valley, CA 94546
Voice: (415) 538-6544
BBS:   (415) 537-1777

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Appel
just a user on 1:231/30

      WILL 80x86 MS-DOS-BASED COMPUTERS SOON BE OBSOLETE?

Copyright (c), 1991 by Dave Appel.

INTRO
    (Quick answer: "no.")
    An associate and I were having a conversation about upgrading
our computers. We both have 80286 (AT clone) computers. I was
saying that the 80386 computer chip is the basis for all future
MS-DOS computers and will not be obsolete in the near future. I
recommended to him that he buy an 80386/33 as his next computer
after giving the 80486 time to push down 80386 prices.
    He previously had a Commodore 64 computer and he remarked how
that computer has more-or-less fallen by the wayside. It was
followed by the C-128, but it has not been updated since then. He
wanted to know how long it would be before the 80386 computer
will be made obsolete like his C-64 was. He was afraid to invest
in an upgrade for fear that the 80386 and 80486 will go the way
of his C-64, not just in terms of price/performance but made
incompatible by a newer computer standard.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 7                      22 Jul 1991


    There are several reasons I don't think that will happen in
the near term:
    1) The CPU hardware is at a plateau right now in terms of
    functionality.
    2) There is no demand for increased CPU functionality
    because:
       a) We're waiting on the software to catch up.
       b) Functional needs are satisfied.
       c) We're waiting on the I/O bus and peripherals to catch
          up.
    3) There is too much inertia in the software investment. In
       other words, it's a de-facto standard.
    4) The existence of multiple sources for hardware/software
       indicate the current hardware standard will continue.
    5) Proven growth/upgrade path is available now.
    6) MS-DOS 80x86 world is "software rich."
    Don't get me wrong while I sing the praises of the 80x86. The
80x86 is not the be-all and end-all of computers. There are other
good computer lines like the Macintosh. RISC workstations and
mini-computers are more powerful than the 80x86 line, and are
also needed in business. And, there will always be a need for
mainframes.
    In the future I will discuss an alternative "desktop" type
computer, the RISC workstation, that is starting to compete with
the high end of the 80x86 line.

PLATEAU
    The 80386 is what the 80286 should have been, and the 80486
has not added any new features or instructions beyond the 80386.
    The 80486 has a built-in floating point processor (math co-
processor) and a built-in cache. These are not new features, but
were merely external chips to the 80386. The 80486 moved them "on
board" the same chip package as the CPU.
    In other words, the 80486 can't do anything that the 80386,
plus a few other chips, can't do. The 80486 only does it faster.
    I think that this is an important fact. It indicates that the
Intel 80x86 line is mature and stable, but not a dead end. It
means that we are at the beginning of a plateau not at the end of
one.
    The 80486 SX chip has just been announced as I write this. It
is just an 80486 without the built-in math co-processor. This
will cause the prices of 80386 systems and their
price/performance ratios to fall. AMD's recent release of a 386
clone chip will also cause prices to fall.
    A stable computer architecture is important. IBM learned this
decades ago with their mainframe System 370. The System 370 was
their first computer series that was "backward compatible" with
the previous generation, the 360. They were pretty much forced to
be backward compatible because their customers were balking at
having to convert everything to upgrade to each new generation of
computer.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 8                      22 Jul 1991


    Every generation of mainframes that IBM has produced since
then can run System 370 programs. Their 303X series, 4300 series,
308X series, 309X series, and their new ES/9000 can all run
operating systems that were run on the old 370 series.
    This doesn't hold true for their System 34/36/38 series,
which could be why they aren't making any S34/36/38 compatible
machines anymore.
    The new generations of mainframes have added extra
capabilities that new software can take advantage of. But it's
the "backward compatibility" that counts.
    This is analogous to the Intel 80x86 series of computer
chips. An 8088 can run 8086 software. An 80286 can run 8086, and
8088 software. An 80386 can run 80286, 8086 and 8088 software.
And an 80486 can run 80386, 80286, 8086 and 8088 software.
    The same holds true for Motorola's 68000, 68010, 68020, 68030
and 68040 CPU chips.
    But here is an important fact: At every step, major
functionality was added EXCEPT for the 80486. The 80486 only
added speed and efficiency. Therefore, the 80486 does NOT
obsolete the 80386, it's merely faster, not different.

BREATHING ROOM, PART 1
    We're waiting on the system software.
    Here's an important observation: The hardware is now 2
generations ahead of the operating system software. OS/2 does not
yet take advantage of the 32 bit instructions of the 80386.
Windows 3.0 does, but Windows really isn't an operating system
per se, it still relies on the underlying DOS.
    OS/2 version 2.0 is due later this year, 1991. (Yeah, sure.)
OS/2 version 2.0 will be the first true 32-bit DOS-compatible
operating system for the 80x86 series. Unix for the 80386 is
available but is a minor player at this point. You can run
several "Dos under Unix/386" packages, but it's still hobbling a
32-bit computer with 16-bit programs.
    I say that OS/2 2.0 will be "Dos-compatible" because it will
allegedly allow multiple Dos programs to run simultaneously with
32-bit and 16-bit OS/2 programs. You won't be limited to only one
Dos program in the "Dos compatibility box" as you are now with
version 1.2 and 1.3.
    The current OS/2 versions are all designed to run on an 80286
computer. You can run it on an 80386 but it won't take advantage
of the 80386's additional functionality.
    Remember, the AT came out in 1984, and OS/2, which was
promised to "take advantage of the AT," didn't ship until the end
of 1987, AFTER the 80386 was already shipping.
    The tardiness of the software gives Intel breathing room as
far as pressure for more functionality. Intel has provided more
functionality in the 80386 instruction set than the software
makers have yet to fully utilize. Until the software makers catch
up, don't look for more functionality in the CPU's instruction
set.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 9                      22 Jul 1991


    Therefore, there is little market pressure for a new computer
standard in terms of software needs.
    If OS/2 version 2.0 and Windows 3.1 allow multiple character-
based DOS sessions, we won't be forced to upgrade our
applications to Windows or OS/2 versions. If you ADD a NEW
application to your system, you can get it in the new OS/2
version or Windows version, but you still will be able to run
your OLD MS-DOS character based apps at the same time.
    This capability of running old and new software is built into
the 80386 chip. We are waiting for software to fully utilize this
capability.

BREATHING ROOM, PART 2
    Our "functional" hardware needs are satisfied.
    Another reason that we are at a plateau and why the 80386
instruction set will stay with us for a while is that the 80386
chip offers near mainframe performance and features. The 486/33
has the raw CPU performance power that IBM's top of the line
mainframe had back in 1981.
    This is CPU performance only. In terms of I/O (disks and
terminals) the mainframe of 10 years ago would blow away today's
best desktop.
    It only took desktop computers about 10 years to do what
mainframes had done in over 20 (again in terms of CPU-only and
not total system.)
    Let me again point out the difference between functionality
and speed. I wrote earlier in this article that the 80486
provides no new functionality over the 80386, only speed.
    There will always be the need for more speed. The point I'm
trying to make here is that the need for more functionality in
the CPU chip itself is minimal right now.
    Therefore, there is no market pressure for a new computer
standard in terms of functional needs.

BREATHING ROOM, PART 3
    We're waiting on the expansion bus and peripherals to catch
up.
    Another reason why Intel has "breathing room" or lack of
demand for more CPU functionality is that the CPU has advanced
far beyond the rest of the desktop computer's components. In a
386/33 based system with cache, the system is I/O bound. You are
constantly waiting for things like the screen to catch up with
its drawing, or the disk drive to finish transferring data. We've
got 33 Megahertz CPU's (40 Mhz are coming soon) but we are still
limited to an 8 Mhz to 12 Mhz bus. CPU functionality and
performance has outstripped the performance of the rest of the
system.
    EISA and Microchannel buses offer faster bus (I/O) speeds,
but they have been slow to catch on. Relatively few video and
disk controllers are being made for EISA and Microchannel, and
those that are being made don't take advantage of the new
features that EISA and Microchannel offer over the older ISA (AT
bus) features.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 10                     22 Jul 1991


    The good news about the new buses, EISA and Microchannel, is
that they won't obsolete your application software if you upgrade
to one of them. This is because application programs don't care
what expansion bus is used.

INERTIA
    This is the biggest reason that MS-DOS (80x86) computers will
not be going away very soon. Businesses have invested billions
and billions of dollars in MS-DOS application programs. That is
billions and billions of dollars in programs that require an
80x86 chip to run. I would guess that home users have invested a
billion or so over the last 10 years, too.
    The only way a competing computer architecture can ever hope
to replace even a fraction of the tens of millions of desktop
computers in the US is to be "backward compatible" with the
80386, thereby protecting your software investment.
    The investment/inertia is in 5 areas:
    1) Hardware, "iron."
    2) Software in the form of standard application programs like
word processing, database, spreadsheet.
    3) More software in the form of customized programs that
represent millions of man hours of development time.
    4) Training in the use of the software.
    5) Mental inertia. Remember how long it took, and how hard it
was to convince so-and-so at the office to switch from
DisplayWrite 3 to Word Perfect?

    Being able to take your expansion boards (modem, disk
controller, video controller, etc.) from an 8 Mhz AT clone
(80286) and having the ability to put them in a new 20 Mhz
80386SX, with an 8 Mhz bus, is a VERY good selling point, and an
incentive to stay with MS-DOS computers.
    A current example of software inertia is the fact that
Windows 3.0 is not running on every computer. People are still
running character based applications both at home and at work. A
recent show of hands at a user meeting showed that less than
10% of people who had bought Windows 3.0 were actually using it
on a day-to-day basis.
    People just don't want to have to buy new versions of
everything. No software maker I know of offers free upgrades to
the Windows version of their product. And not all upgrade fees
are small. Some don't even have an upgrade fee; you have to buy a
whole new package.
    All this inertia provides "market resistance" to any new
incompatible computer.

MULTIPLE SOURCES
    Another major indication of the 80x86 series being a standard
and a staying power are the number of its sources. At the chip
level Intel, AMD, Harris, and NEC make 8088/8086 CPU chips.
Intel, AMD and Harris make the 80286. Intel and AMD make 80386
chips. Now that AMD won the court battle to make an 80386 clone
chip, other companies will probably follow.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 11                     22 Jul 1991


    I'd be willing to bet that IBM has some sort of agreement
with Intel to make 80x86 CPU chips if for some reason Intel were
unable to supply all that IBM needed. IBM is not the kind of
company to put all their eggs in one basket. They would not let
such a portion of their revenue depend on the continuance of just
one other corporation.
    On the systems level there are more manufacturers than I care
to count. I counted 18 clone manufacturers off the top of my head
once.
    Why is the number of sources important?
    How many companies made the C-64? How many companies made the
TRS-80? How many companies make Apple II? How many companies made
the Sinclair/Timex? How many companies make the Amiga? How many
companies made the TI 99/4A? How many companies make the Atari?
How many companies make the Macintosh?
    All those other computers are called "proprietary." If the
maker goes out of business, or if the one company decides to stop
making that computer, the computer becomes a dead end.
    In other words, with so many companies on the 80x86/MS-DOS
bandwagon, it must be a pretty good bandwagon. And, lots of
companies are working to KEEP it a good bandwagon. The
competition is good for everyone.

UPGRADE PATH
    Another trademark of a successful computer line is the
existence of an upgrade path WITHIN the computer line, or within
the current series. This means a wide range of businesses and
home users give the manufacturers a bigger potential market. It
also means you don't have to wait for a new generation to
upgrade. You can get a faster more powerful model RIGHT NOW,
assuming you haven't already reached the top of the line.
    Digital Equipment did the same with their PDP/11 and VAX
series. Data General did it with their entire line of computers.
You could go from the smallest model to the biggest without
having to change software. IBM did this with all their mainframe
series since the 360.
    The 80x86 series of MS-DOS computers offers this "right now"
style of upgrade ability. In the 80286 line you can get 6, 8, 10,
12, 16 and 20 Mhz models. In the 80386SX line you can get 16, 20,
and 25 Mhz models. In the 80386 line you can get 16, 20, 25 and
33 Mhz models. In the 80486 line you can get 25, 33, and soon 40
and 50 Mhz models.
    With any of the above listed speeds of CPU's you can also get
your disk drives in a wide variety of speeds and capacities. You
can get a wide range of main memory, too, from 640K to 16
megabytes and more. The theoretical main memory limit to the
80386 and 80486 is 4 gigabytes, or 4,096 megabytes.
    Networks also provide a way to expand your computer's power,
share expensive printers, hard disks, modems, and communicate
with others. If your 80486 computer isn't powerful enough to run
several important tasks simultaneously, get another one, network
the two together and split the tasks between the two machines.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 12                     22 Jul 1991


    You can upgrade to a faster CPU, faster/bigger disks, add
more main memory, and add a network "RIGHT NOW" without having to
toss out your software investment. Therefore, why would Mr.
Businessman upgrade to an incompatible computer which would wipe
out his software investment, when he can upgrade to a similar
computer and keep his software and training investments? The
answers are:
    a) when he is "maxed out" and needs the power of a mini-
computer or a mainframe.
    b) when the software he needs is only available on the other
computer.
    c) he needs to link his computer users together, but a
network isn't the solution to his needs.
    Think back to the micro-computers that have been obsoleted.
Sure, you could expand them to certain degrees. But, how many
speeds/models/hard-disks did the C-64, TI 99/4A, Sinclair/Timex,
TRS-80-1/2/3/4, CoCo and Apple II line offer?
    Did your TRS-80, Commodore or Apple II sales-person offer you
speed options? Did they ask you how fast or how big your disk
drives needed to be?
    I can point to a few shining exceptions. Radio Shack did
provide a small upgrade path for the TRS-80 for a while. Apple
Computer upgraded the Apple II very slowly from the II, II+, IIe
to the IIGS and IIc, but its hard disk capacity remained small.
Neither line was extended upward to handle even medium sized
business needs.
    Apple has done very well with its Macintosh line which
provides a wide range of CPU power and disk capacities. Would
Apple have retained its loyal followers if it had left them
"maxed out" by not constantly upgrading and expanding its
Macintosh line?
    Apple learned that expandability is important and finally put
more than one expansion slot in when they designed their Mac II
line. Previous models only had one expansion slot if any.

SOFTWARE RICH
    Another reason why there is little incentive to switch to
another standard is the plethora of software available for 80x86
computers. I wish to repeat that the 80x86 is not the be-all and
end-all. There are some applications that are only available on
the Mac, or a mini-computer, or a RISC workstation, or a
specialized computer, or a mainframe. The smart user will first
choose the software that is needed and then buy the computer that
is needed to run it.
    I'd be willing to bet that there are more applications and
more offerings of each application available for MS-DOS than for
any other computer in existence. Your business needs must be very
specialized or very large in order to require something beyond
the offerings of the MS-DOS 80x86 world.

RECAP
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 13                     22 Jul 1991


    These are the reasons your investment in an 80386 won't be
wasted in the near future:
    a) We are at the beginning of a hardware plateau in terms of
the CPU, not at the end of one.
    b) There is little market pressure for more CPU
functionality.
    c) The huge business and personal investment in software
almost guarantees no quick shifts to any new hardware standards.
    d) Scores of huge corporations, including many of the Fortune
500, have jumped on this bandwagon and have stakes in it.
    e) A large growth path gives businesses and home users plenty
of room to expand. Only those businesses that reach the top of
the line would need to switch to something else.
    f) Thousands of software companies are working to keep MS-DOS
computers satisfying your needs at work and at home.

Send any comments, positive or negative, to:
   Fidonet:  Dave Appel at 1:231/30    I X.400 mail:
   Internet: dappel@ehsnet.fidonet.org I  COUNTRY = US
   US Mail:  POBox 24802,INDY,IN,46224 I  ADMD = WESTERN UNION
   Relaynet: Dave Appel at ICC         I  ORG = DAVID APPEL
   GEnie:    DAVE.APPEL                I  DDA.ELN=62877725
   Western Union:  ESL 6287-7725       I


----------------------------------------------------------------------


* Las Vegas Gambler

by Nick Hard
New EchoListing! Las Vegas Gambler.

Something NEW has hit the FidoNetwork! Its the Las Vegas Gambler!
News and reviews of Major, and many times, not so Major Hotels and
Casinos. Get the 'inside' scoop from locals on where the really good
deals are in Las Vegas. Where to go, and most importantly, where NOT
to go!

Just about every FidoNet board here in Las Vegas carries this echo,
so you are sure to find someone that can answer your particular
question. If your planning on coming out, or making that 1000th
trip, we are on hand to let you know what is really going on!

I have also found that with Las Vegas being a number 1 growth
city for a few years now, that we needed a National Echo to just
keep in touch with one another. You would be surprised
how many people know one another that have moved to the area,
looking for a lifestyle change, new employment, or just for the
weather and the gambling town itself.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 14                     22 Jul 1991


Also included when there are tired times, are daily gambling tips,
HOT games in sports, Las Vegas Lines, and BEST BETS!
Gearing up for Football, get the inside Line Moves from the major
hotels. Opening and Closing lines.

LV_GAMBLER is a new echo. recently added to the #107 Echolisting.
Tell your NEC or REC that you need that vacation to Las Vegas, and
pick up LV_GAMBLER today!

Hope to see you soon!


----------------------------------------------------------------------


by Richard Holler 1:231/290.0
NET 231 "Network Coordinator" Election Held

In a rather surprising move, on May 29, 1991, the existing NC of Net
231 called for an election to appoint a new NC. The NC at the time,
Brian Murrey, stated "Policy4 says I can just appoint someone, but
that's no fun".  Brian said that while he could have simply appointed
himself again, he would rather be "elected" by the members of his
network.  So, away we went.

I volunteered to "count votes" and wound up handling the entire
election, from drafting the rules to receiving and counting the
ballots.  We only had a couple of "rocky" times, one of which involved
a debate over eligibility based on the nodelist.  One member claimed
that even though her "husband's" name was the only one listed in the
nodelist, that she was just as much a full sysop as he was......and
she shouldn't be ineligible to vote just because her name wasn't
listed.  Well, after *MUCH* debate, our quick-thinking NC solved the
problem.......he just modified the listing in the nodelist to show
both names! Simple.

After that, everything went pretty smooth.  We wound up with 3
nominated candidates, and they all conducted themselves with nothing
but respect for each other.  It was a good, clean, flame-less
campaign.

After it all came down to a vote...........the winner is:

<drum roll please>

ddddddddrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr<WHAP!>  BRIAN MURREY!  The
existing NC did in fact get "elected" to the position, just as he had
hoped.  I'm sure that it is much more gratifying to be elected by the
members of your network, than to just appoint yourself to another
term.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 15                     22 Jul 1991


Through this election process, we determined that an election for the
position of NC should take place every 2 years.  Previously, there was
no real policy concerning this.  As a matter of fact, the first
official act of the new term will be for Brian to tackle the task of
revising the current NET231 policy, which is outdated and obsolete.

I wish to publicly thank all of the members of NET 231 for allowing
this election to take place so smoothly. There was no name-calling, no
flaming, and no mud-slinging!  Thanks to all that participated!


----------------------------------------------------------------------

RSA's MailSafe

From: wet!well!nagle (John Nagle)
To:   hoptoad!f111.n125.z1.FIDONET.ORG!tom.jennings
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 91 00:50:57 pdt

In comp.org.eff.talk you write:

>is available for FidoNet Wazoo filerequest (or manual dialup download)
>from my BBS, at 415-863-2739, 24 hrs 'cept ZMH (2a - 3a). filerequest
>magicname PGP. Or download two files:

    Or you can get the real thing, RSA's MailSafe.  It hasn't sold well,
because standalone mail encryption programs are a pain, but RSA has
offered it since 1986.  I had lunch with Bidzos of RSA a few days ago,
and he's even willing to offer a big discount, down to $50, to WELL
subscribers.  A similar deal might be made available for FidoNet users.
Bidzos is at "jim@RSA.COM", and he seems OK.

    He does, though, want people to stop ripping off the RSA technology.
They do have a patent (#4,405,829) on the idea, which is a real innovation.
You might get a letter from RSA's lawyers, although if you don't make too
much noise about having it around, they may not care too much.  Bidzos's
problem is that when he's negotiating with, say, Microsoft, to charge
them lots of money to licence the technology, he doesn't want them saying
"But we can just get it free from this BBS."  That's why the legal threats.


                                        John Nagle

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 16                     22 Jul 1991


======================================================================
                           RANTS AND FLAMES
======================================================================

            _(*#$_(*@#(*     (*^$+)#(%&+|      #$)%(&*#_$   @_#(  @$
       ^@#+)(#&%$*+)$%&*+$*%&#@(@#_|)*%|)#%&)#*%&+(@#&*_+(@#*^&@###
   *&#_($*&#$_(*#&$_(#*$&$ _(#$*#$+)#($&*+#)$            &#+$*&#
  ()*&#$_(&^#$_(#*$_#($^&#_$(^&#_$(&^#$_(&#^  damn right   _(#^&$_(#^&
 $*&#$_+(*             #)$&(%($%+)($%*+$)%($*   it's ugly   _#&%^#  &
#($_*#$_   FidoNet        (*$&%_@#_(*&@#_(@*#&_           @#_(*&@#_(*
)*&#$           Flames        *^$+)#(%  (not for the timid) @_#(
(*#$_(*^@#+)             and     #_|)*%         &+(@#&*_+(@#*^&@###
(#$*&#_($*&#$_(*#&$_(#*                   Rants    *&+#$*&#+$*&#
   )*&#$_(a regular feature)^&#_$(&^#$_              $^&#$_(#^
        (*^#$_*#^&$)*#&$^%)#*$&^_#($*^&#_($   Section   #&%^_
       _(*#&$_(#*   #($*&   #$*   _(*&@#_(@*#           *&@#_(*&
                                        )&*+_)*&+)*&+))&*(*&
                                               (*&_(*&_(*&



----------------------------------------------------------------------

                              Journey to
                          THE BANANA REPUBLIC

      A candid interview with Fight-O-Net Minister of Propaganda
                             Fritz Banana

    By Robert J. Moscovich and Alain Boritznikoff with Ryan DeBush

After many months of trying to track him down for an interview, we
finally succeeded in pinning down the elusive Fritz Banana.  We waded
through a sea of echos, a jungle of bizarre zone numbers, and finally
penetrated the Iron Oxide Curtain to arrive at the Imperial Palace of
the Banana Republic.

The Imperial Palace was quite a sight!  A seemingly impenetrable
fortress guarded by soldiers of the Imperial Empire.  These cadets
defend the borders of the Banana Republic and receive their orders
directly from the Palace, although we still are not certain from whom.
They are a carefully selected group, and they've undergone intense
training to learn to speak only the party line, crush dissent, and
keep the citizens of the Banana Republic in line.  Their credo is
"Freedom Actually Belongs In Another Net".  This is more commonly
known as the F.A.B.I.A.N.  edict.

As we approached the Palace, we were spotted by the guards.  In
seconds, they recognized us and the plastic smiles on their faces
quickly evaporated.  They loaded their grenade launchers with innuendo
and accusation cartridges and trained them on us.  We feared that it
was all over for us.  That we were going to be victims of a bombing
run right then and there, for you see, two of us had succeeded in
defecting from the Imperial Empire several months earlier.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 17                     22 Jul 1991


But we stood our ground in the face of the soldiers.  Then one of the
guards spoke in a voice not unlike that of a "Toy Violin":

TV>  What is your business here?
RJM> We wanna tlak to Fritz Banana.
TV>  Banana eh?  What do want from him?
RJM> We just wanna aks him a few qestions.
TV>  Are you willing to accept Fritz Banana as the Lord thy God and
     communicate with him using the Holy Goofmail Method?

RJM> Noep.
TV>  Why do you spell so bad?
RJM> (There must be a policy compliant in that statment somwheres ...)

At that point, we were ushered into the Great Hall of the Loyal.  A
large portrait of the founder of the Empire, Thompson Hendersmith,
glared down at us.  We were led down a dark hallway with several
messages scrawled on the walls, (but there were no seen-by's), and it
appeared that some of the writings had been erased.  At the end of the
hall was a large room with a single light bulb hanging from the
ceiling.  We could hear the faint cries of oppression wafting
mysteriously through the air.

We were seated in three wooden chairs in front of a massive desk that
was on sort of an elevated floor, or pedestal as it were.  A portrait
of Emperor Gordinski the Terrible hung on the wall behind the desk,
and off to the corner was what appeared to be a large American Flag on
stand.  Kinda looked like a courtroom.  Closer inspection of the flag
however, revealed that it had 107 stars on it.  Weird.

A door off to the side and behind the desk opened up and a large man
with pounds of gold chains hanging around his neck (there were 107 of
them) walked in.  He had a full, bushy beard, and cold, mean look
about him.  He dressed in battle fatigues and an olive green cap.  The
disgusting remnants of a cigar were clenched tightly in his teeth.  It
was him.  It HAD to be him.  He slammed his large frame into the
overly padded chair with a grunt.

FB>  WHAT.

(We looked at each other)

AB>  We just want to interview you for Fight-O-Nooz.
FB>  FINE.  WHAT.
RD>  Ummm.
FB>  DON'T WASTE MY TIME.  YOU'RE LUCKY I'M EVENT TALKING TO RADICAL
     SCUM LIKE YOU.  YOU ANTI-AMERICAN COMMUNIST PIGS DON'T EVEN
     DESERVE TO BE IN THE SAME ROOM WITH 'OL GLORY OVER THERE.

AB>  Well, ok your Obeseness, let's talk about GoofMail.
FB>  Ahh!  My favorite subject.  Besides me.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 18                     22 Jul 1991


AB>  Good.  Some people, mostly those outside the Banana Republic and
     those that wish they were, claim that GoofMail is nothing more
     than a means to provide the moderator of an echo absolute control
     and makes it very easy, even INVITINGLY so, for that person to
     censor messages.  After looking at it, we tend to agree and we
     think that maybe it should be banned or at least not officially
     recognized.  We'd like to hear YOUR side of the story.

FB>  If you REALLY knew what you were talking about, you'd be trying
     to cause problems, which can lead to policy complaints, which can
     lead to your being dropped from FIDOnet.

RJM> Now, now Fritz, let's not get our kidneys in a sweat here.
     You're a reasonable man, no need to get all worked up.  You can
     carry on a civil conversation with the best of 'em can't you?
     You ARE, after all a REALLY NICE GUY deep down!

FB>  Since you obviously DON'T know what the fuck you're talking
     about, may I suggest that you keep your mouth shut until you DO?

AB>  Quite a while back, you sent us a message telling us that you
     were going to try to have one of our people executed, er..
     excommunicated.  I went into an echo and told a few people about
     what you had said, and asked for their opinion.  It was apparent
     to ALL that you're on a power trip, and even though you have no
     legit authority, you DO think you're some kind of powerful force
     to be reckoned with.  Is that not so?

FB>  You've gotta have the biggest pair of brass balls going to quote
     my PRIVATE NETMAIL to YOU in a PUBLIC ECHOMAIL CONFERENCE.  I
     made the fucking effort to move my comments to you to private
     netmail so as not to embarrass you in the conference since you're
     new to the network, and you've got the GALL to quote me publicly?

RD>  Whether our not our genitalia are molded from some metallic
     substance is immaterial.  But how ELSE were we to let the masses
     know where your head's REALLY at?

FB>  PHUCK THE MASSES.  The masses will know what they are told to
     know.  nothing more.  The Empire must remain rigid and
     consistent!  What you have done is not only a major violation of
     network policy, it's a fucking federal offence against the
     Electronic Communications and Privacy Act of 1986, which, by the
     way, comes with a MANDATORY fine of $10,000 per count.

RJM> (mumbles) Or excommunication at the very least.

FB>  WHAT WAS THAT MOSCOVICH??

RJM> Nothing Fritz.  Put the flag back in the stand and calm down.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 19                     22 Jul 1991


AB>  Fritz, the people must know that you are what you are.  We have
     told as many people as we could about viciously abusive you are.
     We've shown them proof.  We've even sent copies to Warren Peace!
     I'm sorry.  It had to be done!

FB>  ACCUSING *ME* of being abusive????  I want a fucking PUBLIC
     apology from YOU, NOW, or I'll file the fastest policy complaint
     against you anyone's ever seen, and get your fucking ass thrown
     out of the network!

AB>  <yawns>

RJM  <thinking> A Policy Complaint!  I KNEW we could work one in here
     SOMEWHERE!

RD>  They already LEFT the network Fritz.

FB>  LIKE HELL THEY DID!  WE KICKED THEIR BENEDICT-ARNOLD ASSES OUT!!!
     THEN THEY WENT CRYING TO THAT WIMP WARREN PEACE FOR HIM TO GIVE
     THEM A PLACE TO STAY.  WE *EXILED* THEM.  EXPUNGED THE VIRUS.
     AND NOW THEY ARE TRYING TO INFECT US ONCE AGAIN.  WE CAN'T ALLOW
     THIS TO HAPPEN IN AMERICA.  MAYBE THIS SHIT IS OK IN COMMODORE-64
     LAND, BUT NOT IN THIS NETWORK PAL!  GOD BLESS OUR VETERANS AND
     IMPERIAL WARRIORS!  MANY GOOD MEN IN THIS REPUBLIC MADE THE
     SUPREME SACRIFICE, LAID DOWN THEIR *LIVES* SO THAT THE MAIL COULD
     GET OUT!  DEFENDING 'OL GLORY 'TILL THEIR LAST BREATH!  FOUR
     SCORE AND SEVEN ...

At this point, we deemed it a good idea to get the hell out of there.
As we tried to leave the Palace, we noticed that all the doors were
bolted shut.  So we had to slip through one the holes in the Goofmail
Processor.

As we exited through the courtyard, we ran into a skinny man with
glasses who was carrying a stack of paperwork and shaking like a leaf
from fear.

RJM> What's the matter with YOU?

Skinny Guy>    Nnnnnothing ...

AB>  What's those papers all about?

Skinny Guy>    T..t..these are the B..b.b.banana P..Papers.  It's a
               transcript of everything you guys said to the Great One
               in there.

RJM> Where r u gong with them (Pardon my spelling) ?

Skinny Guy>    I'm taking them to the Ministry of Propaganda for
               processing.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 20                     22 Jul 1991


AB>  Processing?

SG>  Yeah.  They strip off all the words, rewrite the whole thing,
     send a copy to all the coordinators in the land, post it in
     REGION13, then they use it as evidence to execute, I mean,
     excommunicate you.

We left the poor soul and headed toward the Promised Land off on the
horizon.  It was a long journey.  And as we walked, we muttered to
ourselves, "We'll NEVER go back there again.  Never."  Geez, we musta
repeated it 269 times.

                                  -0-

----------------------------------------------------------------------


                     "Stuffing Sock In Mouth,"
                                Or
                      "Removing Tit For Tat"
                 By David Rice, a user of 102/901


DDDDD    uring the past two months, give or take a little, FidoNews
 DD DD   suffered a barrage of articles that most readers, who
 DD  DD  expressed an opinion about them, found offensive and
 DD  DD  insulting. These articles had to do with one person's
 DD  DD  occultism, which few readers, if any, felt the need to
 DD DD   read about. They were quickly followed by counteroffensive
DDDDD    material, of which one such article I wrote had the equivocal
         honor of creating the "Rants and Flames" column of our
beloved  FidoNews.

It was refreshing to see that the author of these weekly
diatribes found enough restraint to voluntarily put a sock it it,
and refrain from posting more such pornography.

Regrettably, someone felt the need to offer her or his opinion on
"Satanism," and now we are off and running again. Even more
regrettable is the fact that this original article, which was
factually inaccurate, was followed by an opinion in the next
weeks' installment which was even more erroneous.

Most readers don't give a crap about what "Satan" does for a
living. Several readers, however, =DO= care when someone hints in
an internationally distributed newsletter that their religion
"isn't a religion" (which it is) and that Christianity isn't a
cult (all religions are cults; look the word up).

All this propaganda, lies, opinions, free-for-all cult bashings
may be amusing for some, "spleen-venting" for others, but hardly
edifying for most.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 21                     22 Jul 1991


Some facts are in order, to head off at the pass the future
articles in Fidonews that may be posted out of ignorance.

 SSSS    atanism is a religion. Several denominations have tax-exempt
SS  SS   status in the United States of North America. Uncle Sam says
SSS      it is a religion, and that's good enough for me to respect
 SSS     it as such. It is illegal to discriminate or oppress someone
   SSS   just because she or he is a Satanist. It is no ones' business
SS  SS   what anothers' religion is.
 SSSS

There may be as many as five thousand Satanists in America [See
Lyon's "Satanism in America"]. There are more people worshiping
Elvis and flying saucers than there are Satanists. All secular
groups looking for vast hoards of Satanists fail to find when,
while Christian occultists find one or two under every bed. There
is some evidence that the estimate of 5,000 Satanists is too
high, as all churches tend to exaggerate their membership.

Satanists do not worship "Satan." They worship self-determinism,
responsibility, knowledge, and accountability. In this they place
themselves opposite most totalitarian, authoritarian, fascist
religions (such as, but not exclusively, Christianity) which tend
to teach members to defer to the judgement of others such as
their leaders, instill a group identity which is almost always
elitist and often racist, accents faith and unsupported belief
over knowledge and information, and teaches the negation of sin
and wrong doing through magic, thus avoiding responsibility.

Satanists are witches, but Witches are not Satanists. The two
words are NOT interchangeable. They are two distinct religions.
Satanists use the word "witch" to rattle the brains of the
straights, because the word has associations attributed to it
they wish to convey. Witches use the word because they are
Witches, and wish to hell (pardon the expression) that Satanists
would find another word. In general, Satanists do not like
Witches and find them contemptible and too "lilly-white."

Satanists are law-abiding, peace-loving people. They do not
commit crimes based on their religion--- there is no evidence
that says they do. There is a great deal of bad information,
almost exclusively generated by competitive ($$$) religions (most
notably the "fundamentalist" Christian cults) which say they do,
but the writers and speakers and producers of this information
refuse to produce their evidence. One is more likely to be hit by
lightening than be a victim of a Satanist, of ANY crime--- one is
more likely to win the State lottery!

Satanism is decreasing in America. There have been proposed laws
that will make it illegal to be a "Satanist" here in America.
(The proponents of laws like this should be aware that their
cults will soon follow. May Jesse Helms and the tyrant George
Walker Bush rot in hell.)

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 22                     22 Jul 1991


Satanism had a slight increase in Germany a year or two ago. The
novelty soon wore off.

In The United Kingdom Satanism is flourishing in isolated spots.
It resembles a club more than a religion, however. The religion
is persecuted and oppressed in the UK, even worse than it is in
the United States, because ignorant people (in this case,
Christians imported from America) claim Satanism is dangerous
(which it is not).

FFFFFFF  inally, if anyone wants good information, or to check my
 FF   F  facts here, I urge one to call the Federal Bureau of
 FF F    Investigation's department in charge of religion-based
 FFFF    crime. The following data will allow one to get the facts.
 FF F
 FF
FFFF
         Kenneth V. Lanning
         Supervisory Special Agent
         Behavioral Science Instruction and Research Unit
         FBI Academy
         Quantico, Virginia 22135

         Robert Hicks
         Criminal Justice Analyst/Law Enforcement Section
         Department of Criminal Justice Services
         805 E. Broad Street
         Richmond, Virginia 23219
         1-804-786-8421

         Rowan Moonstone
         CultWatch Response, Inc.
         Post Office Box 1842
         Colorado Springs, CO 80901-1842

         California Office of Criminal Justice Planning
         1130 K Street, Suite 300
         Sacramento, California, 95814
         1-714-324-9100

    Write to the California Office of Criminal Justice Planning and
request "Research Update, Special Edition, Winter 1989-1990, Volume
1, Number 6." This report covers the use of animals in religious
practices, including "sacrifice." Better yet, phone and talk to
Gayle Olson-Raymer, Joan Kawada Chan, Plauche F. Villere, Jr., or
G. Albert Howenstein, Jr. (number is above).

----------------------------------------------------------------------


 If you're one of those unfortunate people who can sit down
on Sunday afternoon, or late at night, and tolerate almost any
program that happens to come across your television screen,
whether it be the telephone auction or a weight loss seminar, you
may have already come to the conclusion that there isn't much
difference between televangelism and professional wrestling.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 23                     22 Jul 1991


 The similarity became obvious during the early days of the
PTL scandal, when most intelligent people found themselves
wondering, "is this real, or is it all just part of the act."

 The startling revelation of Jimmy Swaggart's disgraceful
mortal sins has to be the most astonishing turn of events since
Andre the Giant became a villain.  Swaggart was once the ultimate
fundamentalist, preaching out against the evils of our modern
society.  Jimmy was always so frighteningly believable that
people who didn't believe in what he was preaching still took him
seriously because he seemed so committed to his cause -- however
fascistic it may have been.   When Jimmy Swaggart turns out to be
an adulterer, you've got to start wondering what's going on.  What
follows is a brief comparative list of a few of the many traits
televangelism and pro wrestling share.  Coincidence, or more?  You
be the judge.

1.   Like pro wrestlers, evangelists are not nearly as scary as
     the people who believe in them.  Sure, Tammy Faye is
     frightening, but we all know she's not real.  The people
     who send Tammy money for mascara are the frightening ones.

2.   Despite claims to the contrary, there appear to be no
     rules.  Pro wrestling is the ultimate anything goes
     sport.  The referee affects the final outcome of the
     match about as much as a pro football cheerleader might
     influence the final score of the Super Bowl.

     Evangelists heal people, stop hurricanes and claim God
     is holding them hostage for $8 million ransom.  There's
     nothing to stop any of these people from testing the
     outer limits of acceptable conduct in their professions.

3.   Both have their own special languages.  From body slams
     and back sliders, to pile drivers and the rapture.
     They even share some common jargon, like the classic,
     but meaningless, phrase "believe you me."

4.   Good guys are subject to become bad guys overnight,
     without prior warning.  According to this theory we can
     expect to see the return of Jim and Tammy sometime in
     the near future.  As all wrestling fans know, once
     you've changed from good to bad, the cycle isn't
     complete unless you come back into favor before the end
     of your career.

5.   Both attract large T.V. audiences of non-believers who,
     despite their doubts, are still fascinated by the
     unbelievable spectacle of the whole thing.

6.   Long a part of wrestling, costumes and outlandish
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 24                     22 Jul 1991


     outfits have become a recent fixture for many of the
     more flamboyant televangelists.  In fact, there are
     even a few Tammy Faye clones around the country.  It may
     not be long before we see evangelists in those
     ridiculous wrestling masks.

7.   The participants are prone to becoming instant media
     celebrities no matter what horrible events they may have
     recently perpetrated.  Breaking legs, embezzlement,
     adultery -- it doesn't really matter.  Regardless of
     your past criminal record, success awaits you in these
     chosen fields.

8.   Outlandish claims and lies.  Treachery of the first
     degree and slanderous name calling.  It's all there in
     abundance in both of these sports.

 The ultimate proof, however, is that Oral Roberts, Jim
and Tammy, Jimmy Swaggart, and all the rest, wouldn't seem
out of place if they suddenly showed up as managers in the
World Wrestling Federation.  Could we possible be witnessing
the strange plot development of the next Wrestlemania?

                            -30-

----------------------------------------------------------------------

                     Clean up the Snooze
                     -------------------

I'm not finding this easy to write, because it  is  supporting
a  point  of  view  that  I'm  usually  not  comfortable  with
advocating; censorship. Or at least, something like it.

I just read Fidonews  827.  I  haven't  read  the  snooze  for
about 6 weeks or so, but I decided to peruse 827 to  see  what
was in there.

And there I saw some religious and cult diatribe.

This stuff  simply  does  not  belong  in  Fidonews.  I  mean,
enough is enough.

I'm  aware  of  Fidonews'  policy  of  printing  anything   it
receives, and in some respects, that's commendable.  But  when
it comes right down to it, we really shouldn't  be  'printing'
stuff that has nothing  to  do  with  this  hobby,  computers,
communcations, Fidonet, email networks, etc.

Ordinarily, it might not be a  bad  thing.  But  I  think  its
time the editors woke up and realized that people have to  PAY
for this. The  coordinator  structure  moves  this  newsletter
around. They are REQUIRED to do so. It costs  them  MONEY.  It
think its rather preposterous to require a net coordinator  to
make a long distance phone call, pick up a text file espousing
the virtues of praising Jesus, and sending downstream.
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 25                     22 Jul 1991


WHY does Fidonews have to print this stuff? WHY  can't  it  be
a vehicle for information related to this  realm?  WHY  do  we
need this 'other' stuff? We can all pick up  a  NEWSPAPER  and
read about 'other things', Fidonews is not the New York Times,
and shouldn't try to be.

The  is  NOTHING  wrong  with  Fidonews  being  a  publication
dedicated to the hobby  and  its  periphery.  There's  nothing
wrong with that.

The editorial policy needs to change. And  if  its  not  going
to change, then coordinators should be let off the hook  .  If
Fidonews is going to publish  diatribes  about  how  Jesus  is
going to save the world, or how Satanism is  running  rampant,
then no coordinator in Fidonet should be required  to  get  it
and distribute it. It should be purely optional.

Fidonews   is   anot   an   appropriate   vehicle   for    the
dissemination of  religious  information.  It  doesn't  belong
here. And if the editors won't stop it, we shouldn't  have  to
pick it up. Period.

Glen Johnson 1:269/101

/* I ran this article in spite of it not meeting the requirements of
ARTSPEC.DOC. Please read the format requirements! -- tj */

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 26                     22 Jul 1991


======================================================================
                             CLASSIFIEDS
======================================================================

ADVERTISEMENT POLICY: Submissions must be 20 lines or less each,
maximum two ads per advertiser, 70 characters per line maximum. No
control codes except CR and LF. (Refer to contact info at the end of
this newsletter for details.)

Please notify us if you have any trouble with an advertiser. FidoNews
does not endorse any products or services advertised here.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 27                     22 Jul 1991


======================================================================
                               NOTICES
======================================================================

                 Aronson  Consulting  Enterprises

           218 N. Howard Street    Voice: 703-370-6508
           Suite 402                Data: 703-370-7054
           Alexandria, VA 22304    (Fidonet 1:109/120)

 Robert Heinlein once wrote that "Specialization is for insects."
 We agree.  Our main strength is custom software design and
 development, but we perform many other services as well, with
 a wide variety of platforms, packages, fields, languages, etc.
 Download or f'req' BROCHURE.ARC for more details.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The Interrupt Stack


26 Jul 1991
WORLDCON '91 -- July 26-28 -- The First Global Fidonet Conference -
London England. Details From 2:25/102 or 1:103/158  freq magic name
WORLDCON.

15 Aug 1991
 8 Sep 1991
 7 Oct 1991
Area code 415 fragments. Alameda and Contra Costa Counties will begin
using area code 510. This includes Oakland, Concord, Berkeley and
Hayward. San Francisco, San Mateo, Marin, parts of Santa Clara County,
and the San Francisco Bay Islands will retain area code 415.

 1 Nov 1991
Area code 301 will split. Area code 410 will consist of the
northeastern part of Maryland, as well as the eastern shore. This will
include Baltimore and the surrounding area. Area 301 will include
southern and western parts of the state, including the areas around
Washington DC. Area 410 phones will answer to calls to area 301 until
November, 1992.

 1 Feb 1992
Area code 213 fragments. Western, coastal, southern and eastern
portions of Los Angeles County will begin using area code 310. This
includes Los Angeles International Airport, West Los Angeles, San
Pedro and Whittier. Downtown Los Angeles and surrounding communities
(such as Hollywood and Montebello) will retain area code 213.

 1 Dec 1993
Tenth anniversary of Fido Version 1 release.

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 28                     22 Jul 1991


 5 Jun 1997
David Dodell's 40th Birthday


If you have something which you would like to see on this calendar,
please send a message to FidoNet node 1:1/1.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tomas Hood,
ZC, ICDM Net
1:352/777
77:1/0      Notice:  Invitation to Carry ICDM Net

Because of the great success in sharing the news of the ICDM
Network's inception, I wish again to inform you that we're here!

There has begun a new, auxiliary network, which has as a purpose
the linking of persons interested in religion.  This is a
specialized Network, aimed at bridging cultures, and enlightening
participants on the faiths of others.  It is "Christian" in the
sense that the creator of the Network hopes to propagate the
original Christian message.  But, it deviates from some of the
stereotype, modern "Christian" traditions.  One of the ways this
is done is to allow anyone to express his/her views on the topics
discussed.  No one is flamed, cursed, attacked, for holding views
contrary to others on the echoes in the Network.

It is open to any board that is FidoNet compatible.  It is
compiled as a separate Zone (77), so your software must be Zone
aware.  It is open to any faith, any person, regardless of sex,
creed, color, etc. etc.

Since the network started, we have grown in a healthy rate.  The
echoes are beginning to pick up interest and people are becoming
active in them.  You and the board you are associated with would
benefit from having such a forum for religious dialog.

Some of the echoes contained:  Six Questions--A conf on the basic
questions of life, like:  "If there is a loving God, why is there
so much pain in the world?"  Round Table--A conf for general
religious dialog  (includes discussions of World Peace, Ecology,
etc...).  Cults--A look at the faiths, cults, religions that exist
in the world.  Disciple--A "Christian" echo dealing with the
Disciple of Christ, the walk of the Christian.

The ZC is Tomas Hood, 1:352/777.  There may be connections close
to you, and as we grow, there will surely be!  (We now have 15
nodes, from Arkansas/Ohio (Eastern) to California (Western).
Three Regions now set up.).

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 29                     22 Jul 1991


For more information, send netmail to 1:352/777, and request ICDM,
which is an information packet.

Thanks for your interest and we look forward to hearing from you.

<ICDM Network HQ>


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Tomas Hood
FidoNet 1:352/777
ICDM Network 77:77/1

               NOTICE:  HERBAL ECHO NOW AVAILABLE!

HERBS-N-SUCH is a conference for anyone who enjoys growing,
buying, and using herbs.  Covering any legal herb, this
conference allows the discussion of medicinal, culinary,
aromatic, and aesthetic usage of herbs.  If you are a user only,
or a gardener, you are welcome.  Do you make your own tea blends,
hair rinses, or salads?  Join in!

It is, at present, a Regional Echo Hosted and Moderated by Tomas
Hood [1:352/777].  It is on the Region 17 Backbone.  1/217,
352/777 and others are available for linking it in.  We hope to go
national backbone soon.  Make a request to those in your region.

A sample of the first few messages and the statement of purpose
of the Echo is available as HERBS (majyk name for HERBS.ARJ)
from this system, anytime, if you wish to get an idea of whether
to commit disk space to the Echo.  The ARJ archive utility is
also available as "ARJ."

I hope you will join us or ask your Sysop to request a link
via Netmail to 1:352/777.

Cheers!
Tomas Hood


----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 30                     22 Jul 1991


======================================================================
                           LATEST VERSIONS
======================================================================

Latest Software Versions

                         MS-DOS Systems
                         --------------

                      Bulletin Board Software
Name        Version    Name        Version    Name       Version

DMG            2.93    Phoenix         1.3    TAG           2.5g
Fido            12u+   QuickBBS       2.66    TBBS           2.1
GSBBS          3.02    RBBS          17.3B    TComm/TCommNet 3.4
Lynx           1.30    RBBSmail      17.3B    Telegard       2.5
Kitten         2.16    RemoteAccess   1.01*   TPBoard        6.1
Maximus        1.02    SLBBS         1.77A    Wildcat!      2.55
Opus           1.14+   Socrates       1.10    WWIV          4.12
PCBoard        14.5a   SuperBBS       1.10    XBBS          1.17

Network                Node List              Other
Mailers     Version    Utilities   Version    Utilities  Version

BinkleyTerm    2.40    EditNL         4.00    ARC            7.0
D'Bridge       1.30    MakeNL         2.31    ARCAsim       2.31
Dutchie       2.90C    ParseList      1.30    ARCmail       2.07
FrontDoor      2.00    Prune          1.40    ConfMail      4.00
InterMail      2.01*   SysNL          3.14    Crossnet      v1.5
PRENM          1.47    XlatList       2.90    DOMAIN        1.42
SEAdog         4.60*   XlaxDiff       2.40*   EMM           2.02
TIMS      1.0(Mod8)    XlaxNode       2.40*   4Dog/4DMatrix 1.18
                                              Gmail         2.05
                                              GROUP         2.16
                                              GUS           1.40
                                              HeadEdit      1.18
                                              IMAIL         1.10
                                              InterPCB      1.31
                                              LHARC         1.13
                                              MSG            4.1
                                              MSGED         2.06
                                              MSGTOSS        1.3
                                              Oliver        1.0a
                                              PK[UN]ZIP     1.10
                                              PolyXarc      2.1a*
                                              QM             1.0
                                              QSORT         4.03
                                              ScanToss      1.28
                                              Sirius        1.0x
                                              SLMAIL        1.36
                                              StarLink      1.01
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 31                     22 Jul 1991


                                              TagMail       2.41
                                              TCOMMail       2.2
                                              Telemail      1.27
                                              TMail         1.21
                                              TPBNetEd       3.2
                                              TosScan       1.00
                                              UFGATE        1.03
                                              XRS           4.50*
                                              XST           2.3e
                                              ZmailH        1.14


                           OS/2 Systems
                           ------------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Maximus-CBCS       1.02   BinkleyTerm  2.40   Parselst      1.32
                                              ConfMail      4.00
                                              EchoStat       6.0
                                              oMMM          1.52
                                              Omail          3.1
                                              MsgEd         2.06
                                              MsgLink       1.0C
                                              MsgNum        4.14
                                              LH2           0.50
                                              PK[UN]ZIP     1.02
                                              ARC2          6.00
                                              PolyXarc      2.1a*
                                              Qsort          2.1
                                              Raid           1.0
                                              Remapper       1.2
                                              Tick           2.0
                                              VPurge        2.07


                            Xenix/Unix 386
                            --------------

BBS Software                  Mailers         Other Utilities
Name             Version  Name      Version   Name       Version

                          BinkleyTerm 2.32B   Unzip         3.10
                                              ARC           5.21
                                              ParseLst      1.32
                                              Vpurge        4.08
     [Contact: Jon Hogan-Duran 3:711/909,     Ommm          1.42
      Willy Paine 1:343/15, Eddy van Loo      Msged         2.06
      2:285/406]                              Zoo           2.01
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 32                     22 Jul 1991


                                              C-Lharc       1.00
                                              Omail         1.00
                                              MSGREN
                                              MSGLNK        1.01


                              Apple II
                             ----------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

GBBS Pro            2.1   Fruity Dog    2.0*  ShrinkIt      3.23
DDBBS +             7.4*                      ShrinkIt GS   1.04
                                              deARC2e       2.1
                                              ProSel        8.69*


                            Apple CP/M
                            ----------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Daisy               v2j   Daisy Mailer 0.38   Nodecomp      0.37
                                              MsgUtil        2.5
                                              PackUser        v4
                                              Filer         v2-D
                                              UNARC.COM     1.20


                            Macintosh
                            ---------

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Red Ryder Host      2.1   Tabby         2.2   MacArc         0.04
Mansion            7.15   Copernicus    1.0   ArcMac          1.3
WWIV (Mac)          3.0                       LHArc          0.41
Hermes              1.5                       StuffIt Classic 1.6
FBBS               0.91                       Compact Pro    1.30
Precision Systems 0.95b*                      TImport        1.92
TeleFinder Host 2.12T10                       TExport        1.92
                                              Timestamp       1.6
                                              Tset            1.3
                                              Import          3.2
                                              Export         3.21
Point System Software                         Sundial         3.2
FidoNews 8-29                  Page 33                     22 Jul 1991


                                              PreStamp        3.2
Name            Version                       OriginatorII    2.0
                                              AreaFix         1.6
Copernicus          1.0                       Mantissa       3.21
CounterPoint       1.09                       Zenith          1.5
                                              Eventmeister    1.0
                                              TSort           1.0
                                              Mehitable       2.0
                                              UNZIP         1.02c
                                              Zip Extract    0.10

                              Amiga
                              -----

Bulletin Board Software   Network Mailers     Other Utilities

Name            Version   Name      Version   Name       Version

Falcon CBBS        0.45   BinkleyTerm  1.00   AmigArc       0.23
Paragon           2.082+  TrapDoor     1.50   AReceipt       1.5
TransAmiga         1.07   WelMat       0.44   booz          1.01
                                              ConfMail      1.12
                                              ChameleonEdit 0.10
                                              ElectricHerald1.66
                                              Lharc         1.30
                                              Login         0.18
                                              MessageFilter 1.52
                                              oMMM         1.49b
                                              ParseLst      1.64
                                              PkAX          1.00
                                              PolyxAmy      2.02
                                              RMB           1.30
                                              Roof         44.03
                                              RoboWriter    1.02
                                              Rsh           4.06
                                              Skyparse      2.30
                                              Tick          0.75
                                              TrapList      1.12
                                              UNZIP         1.31
                                              Yuck!         1.61
                                              Zippy (Unzip) 1.25
                                              Zoo           2.01

                           Atari ST/TT
                           -----------

Bulletin Board         Network                Node List
Software    Version    Mailer      Version    Utilities  Version

FIDOdoor/ST   2.3.2*   BinkleyTerm   2.40l    ParseList     1.30
QuickBBS/ST    1.02    The BOX        1.20    Xlist         1.12
Pandora BBS   2.41c                           EchoFix       1.20
GS Point       0.61                           sTICK/Hatch   5.50
LED ST         1.00
MSGED         1.96S

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 34                     22 Jul 1991


Archiver               Msg Format             Other
Utilities   Version    Converters  Version    Utilities  Version

LHARC          0.60    TB2BINK        1.00    ConfMail      4.03
LHARC2         3.18    BINK2TB        1.00    ComScan       1.02
ARC            6.02    FiFo           2.1n*   Import        1.14
PKUNZIP        1.10                           OMMM          1.40
                                              Pack          1.00
                                              FastPack      1.20
                                              FDrenum      2.2.7
                                              Trenum        0.10

                           Archimedes
                           ----------

BBS Software           Mailers                Utilities
Name        Version    Name        Version    Name       Version

ARCbbs         1.44    BinkleyTerm    2.03    Unzip        2.1TH
                                              ARC           1.03
                                              !Spark       2.00d

                                              ParseLst      1.30
                                              BatchPacker   1.00


+ Netmail capable (does not require additional mailer software)
* Recently changed

Utility authors: Please help keep this list up to date by
reporting new versions to 1:1/1. It is not our intent to list
all utilities here, only those which verge on necessity.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

FidoNews 8-29                  Page 35                     22 Jul 1991


------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------

Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Periello
Special thanks to Ken Kaplan, 1:100/22, aka Fido #22

"FidoNews" BBS
    FidoNet  1:1/1
    Internet  fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
    BBS  (415)-863-2739  (9600 HST/V32)

(Postal Service mailing address)
    FidoNews
    Box 77731
    San Francisco
    CA 94107 USA

Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.




FidoNews is copyright 1991 Fido Software. All rights reserved.
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews (we're
easy).



OBTAINING COPIES: FidoNews in electronic form may be obtained from
the FidoNews BBS via manual download or Wazoo FileRequest, or from
various sites in the FidoNet and via uucp. PRINTED COPIES mailed
may be obtained from Fido Software for $5.00US each PostPaid First
Class within North America, or $7.00US elsewhere, mailed Air Mail.
(US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)

Periodic subscriptions are not available at this time; if enough
people request it I will implement it.


SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/1 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC".


FidoNews 8-29                  Page 36                     22 Jul 1991


"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings of Fido Software, Box 77731, San Francisco
CA 94107, USA and are used with permission.

-- END

----------------------------------------------------------------------

