      F I D O N E W S         Volume 18, Number 02             08 Jan 2001
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the     |   ISSN 1198-4589 Published by:        |
     |    FidoNet community       |   "FidoNews"                          |
     |          _                 |   1-714-639-0377     1:1/23           |
     |         /  \               |   1-714-532-1586     1:103/301        |
     |        /|oo \              |   BinkD supported both above          |
     |       (_|  /_)             |                                       |
     |        _`@/_ \    _        |                                       |
     |       |     | \   \\       |   Editor: Warren Bonner               |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))      |           editor@fidonews.org         |
     |       |__U__| /  \//       |           wdbonner@pacbell.net        |
     |        _//|| _\   /        |                                       |
     |       (_/(_|(____/         |                                       |
     |             (jm)           |   Newspapers should have no friends.  |
     |                            |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
     +----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
     


                        Table of Contents
     1. HEADLINE  .................................................  1
        ***Fidonews Guidelines***  ................................  1
     2. CHAT WITH EDITOR  .........................................  2
        -=+Chat with the Editor+=-  ...............................  2
     3. GUEST EDITORIAL  ..........................................  7
        *****Guest Editoral*****  .................................  7
     4. LAND OF LOST NODES  .......................................  9
        ***Lost Perspective***  ...................................  9
     5. LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK  ......................... 11
        * Letters to Fidonews*  ................................... 11
     6. FIDO NAVAL STORIES  ....................................... 13
        -+-+-+Fido Naval STORIES+-+-+-  ........................... 13
     7. GETTING TECHNICAL  ........................................ 14
     8. POET'S CORNER  ............................................ 17
        Poet's Corner  ............................................ 17
     9. ECHOING  .................................................. 18
        -=+ECHOES and RE-ECHOES+=-  ............................... 18
     10. HUMOR  ................................................... 21
     11. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ..................................... 22
     12. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  .................................... 27
        FIDONEWS INFORMATION  ..................................... 27
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 1                    8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                                 HEADLINE
     =================================================================


     Hi folks, a few words about submissions of articles to the Snooze.
     Please use the addresses listed in the Trade Marked banner at the
     beginning of each issue in case you forget them herein.

     Wdbonner@pacbell.net
     Fidonews@netscape.net
     editor@fidonews.org

     And for AOL users:
     WarBonD777@aol.com

     You may send as Netmail, text for short items, .zip attached items.
     Warren Bonner 1:1/23
     Warren Bonner 1:103/401

     Please send articles as: name.txt format with line length of 70
     characters or less.

     Please include the full name of the initials if using quoted text.

     Please try to get your submission in by Saturday noon.

     Please be sure your information is correct and spell checked.

     Please do not use any foul language as I am told some countries are
     very sensitive. Don't quote any uncivilized comments for the Snooze.

     More on this later.

     Thanks,
     Ol'wdb


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 2                    8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                             CHAT WITH EDITOR
     =================================================================


     Darrell and editor chat about elections and policy guidelines.
     In response to those who say they are confused as to who says what
     all lines will hold author's initials, in all snooze articles.
     ===============8<---from Fidonews echo-------------------------------
     DS> Hi Warren!
     >
     DS> This is such a good post by you. Let's try this again.
     >
     > Warren Bonner wrote in a message to Darrell Salter:
     >
     > WB> I think you were a sincere RC and had very convincing backing by
     > WB> your sysops,
     >
     DS> Well I'm partisan here for sure, but yes, I'm proud of those
     DS> Sysops. They supported me very well and I am very fortunate to
     DS> have had an opportunity to serve them. I'm happy to be in Region
     DS> 12. I'm sure most (ex)RCs feel the same way about their Regions.
     >
     > WB> but imho you should have raised hell the instant option one for
     > WB> sysop level election was dropped, and worked the power lines to
     > WB> the other RC's to stand tall with you.
     >
     DS> It is not true that I said nothing to the other RCs about this
     DS> issue. I saw it as a Sysop issue and wanted it discussed in the
     DS> Sysop echos. Most of the other RCs would not accommodate me (us).
     DS> They wanted it discussed in the Z1REGCON echo. I believe that is
     DS> because they saw it as a RC issue. They wanted me to be a RC,
     DS> not a Sysop. I wanted them to be Sysops, not RCs. We were at an
     DS> impasse. I continued to make it a Sysop issue and they withdrew
     DS> to Z1REGCON. The rest, as they say, is history, but this
     DS> election should never have been dictated by the RCC.
     >
     >  WB> That action would have short circuited the SNAP election,
     >
     DS> I doubt it, but perhaps your point has merit. From my point of
     DS> view it was much more important to me for the process to have
     DS> been performed in concert with the Sysops of Zone 1, rather than
     DS> the RCs of Zone 1. If the Sysops had come up with the election
     DS> guidelines, even if they were exactly the same guidelines as
     DS> what were eventually used, I would have no objections. But one
     DS> RC especially would not give up the crafting of those guidelines
     DS> to the Sysops. That was the first point of contention.
     >
     >  WB> giving you and the other RC's more time in Jan. 2001 to put
     >  WB> together a Sysop election.
     >
     >DS> Then why didn't any of the other 9 RCs do it? I think you're a
     >DS > little off base here.
     >
     >  WB> I don't know
     >
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 3                    8 Jan 2001


     DS> Let's try to identify the guilty parties. The first thing that
     DS> comes to mind is, isn't it just a little odd that a solitary RC
     DS> is blamed for an election that 9 other RCs sanctioned? The next
     DS> thing that comes to mind is, isn't it just a little odd that the
     DS> Region that lobbied the most strenuously for a Sysop-level
     DS> election is blamed for an election that 9 other Regions
     DS> sanctioned? Where were those 9 other RC voices? Where were those
     DS> 9 other Region's Sysops voices, all extolling the virtues of a
     DS> true Sysop-level election? Region 12 and I lobbied the hardest
     DS> for a true Sysop-level election.
     >
     DS> The reason I say you're a little off base is because I suspect
     DS> you've fallen prey to listening to people that have been
     DS> somewhat less than forthright with you and all too eager to
     DS> deflect their own responsibility in this matter. That happens to
     DS> all of us, especially with friends, loyalty and everything, but
     DS> please try to be objective here. Many of us have been played for
     DS> fools. It's not hard to understand the bitterness.
     >
     > WB> except time was of the essence and got rushed into it.
     >
     DS> Do you not recall the discussion on the time frame that Ruth
     DS> expounded on with the others? There was more than enough time
     DS> for a Sysop-level election. Certain people didn't want one and
     DS> used P4 to thwart any attempts to have one. We both know who
     DS> they are.
     >
     WB>Yes, and at that time, (the day of Ward's resignation with cut
     WB>date), I too professed that an IMMEDIATE sysop election was
     WB>possible time wise. Two more weeks went by in bickering, then
     WB>Stewart called a poll. Another few days and Carol accepted ECship.
     WB>Her first draft was sysop compliant... and was rejected by Dallas
     WB>and Jim I was told. Then with no consensus a new draft, and a
     WB>final "C" draft was accepted by the RC's. Thus the "RC" election.
     WB>NOW to my point to you was: Stop the train. WHO says that
     WB>the majority of the RC's can be overruled??? P4??? That is where
     WB>the phone lines should have been burning up.  RC's are sysops FIRST
     WB>RC's second by elections already established. They have a majority
     WB>rule right, and should tell the descending minority to abide their
     WB>decision.  That's standard protocol.
     >
     DS> Rather than directing your energy at the few that did speak up
     DS> favourably in this regard, that did expend the energy to gather
     DS> Sysop input via a poll (which was also thwarted I might add),
     DS> perhaps you should be asking serious questions of the people
     DS> that were responsible for killing Option #1, also known as Draft
     DS> A. This was not a good election, Warren, not for Sysops.
     >
     > WB> Anyhow the snap election turned out very well
     >
     DS> Some people do not think so and that's not a criticism of Janis
     DS> but of the system. I personally believe we have some terrific
     DS> people that survive in this hobby not because of the system but
     DS> in spite of it. Unfortunately it only takes a few bad apples and
     DS> a bad system to do some serious damage.
     >
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 4                    8 Jan 2001


     WB> Amen to that, and "bad apples" all seem to have a Nepoleonic EGO.
     >
     DS> Consider, P4 was the tool that thwarted a true Sysop-level
     DS> election in our Z1C election and that was immediately followed
     DS> by an obscene P4 event involving the IC. Frankly, Fidonet's
     DS> history is littered with obscene P4 events.
     DS>
     > WB> and did save the time required to have a Z1C in place for the
     > WB> 5th of Jan. 2001.
     >
     DS> There were any number of ways of getting a Z1C in place by Jan
     DS> 5th. I don't think the best one was used.
     >
     WB>True, a Pro Tem Z1C for one.
     >
     > WB> Just whistling in the dark now.  It is done. Complete. Final.
     >
     >DS> It was final the moment 9 RCs said it was. But if you want to
     >DS> blame the one RC that wouldn't go along with it be my guest.
     >
     > WB> OK, perhaps "Darrell's `fault'", is heavy in that light.
     > WB> Perhaps I should have said `objection'.
     >
     DS> I'll thank you for that. It's easy to look for an convenient
     DS> target and single out a scapegoat. It's a little harder to be
     DS> objective and ask if we really did the right thing, especially
     DS> when it's pretty clear to at least some of us that we didn't.
     DS> I've made mistakes, no doubt about it. We all do. But I don't
     DS> see a lot of objectivity when it comes to admitting them. I do
     DS> see a lot of ill-conceived finger pointing though. This election
     DS> was handled very badly. That became apparent early on and rather
     DS> than admit it and correct it, the truly responsible parties
     DS> started pointing fingers at the scapegoat(s).
     >
     > WB> Stewart is beating a dead horse.
     >
     >DS> Stewart is pointing and saying 'Look at the dead horse!'.
     >DS> The real question is, who killed it?
     >
     > WB> The RC's who appointed EC's to take every voting sysops vote and
     > WB> report the majority's preference to their RC, who voted their
     > WB> regions choice?
     >
     DS> Yes, I'm afraid so, because they already had draft A which
     DS> included the right for the Sysop to vote directly. They took
     DS> that right away and they used P4 to do it.
     >
     DS> Yes, because there still is no accountability to the Sysops.
     >
     DS> Yes, because Sysops that had hopes that things were moving in a
     DS> better direction were disappointed by their RCs when those hopes
     DS> were dashed.
     >
     DS> The dead horse should be a concern, Warren, because it was the
     DS> hope for real Sysop's rights. If we'd had any we would have had
     DS> a true Sysop-level election. But we don't. The *Cs have the
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 5                    8 Jan 2001


     DS> rights, so we had a *C-level election as sanctioned by the *C
     DS> policy document, P4.
     >
     > WB> Point is we already know that why echo it over and over for
     > WB> days and weeks....? IF it made one IOTA of difference, or
     > WB> could make any difference, it would be sensible, otherwise
     > WB> it is not sensible.
     >
     DS> Because many of us are still unhappy about a system than
     DS> empowers *Cs and we are voicing that displeasure. Would you
     DS> see even that little scrap taken away too?
     >
     DS> Darrell
     >
     WB>No, definitely not.  But, may I offer a more productive method of
     WB>expressing your "unhappiness".  Both you and Stewart are very
     WB>articulate.  Use your talents to build a Zone election policy, then
     WB>promote it.  It could become acceptable to all zones and amend P4
     WB>at some future date.

     WB>We obviously need a Zone Election Policy to prevent this kind of
     WB>abstention that disenfranchised your region's sysop from the other
     WB>regions that did vote.  A divided Zone will always fail it's duty.
     WB>That duty being the hobby harmony that nurtures good will by all.
     WB>We have a civil duty to as, civilized entities, be constructive.

     WB>It is better to work earnestly within the existing system to change
     WB>it where necessary due to time and technological changes, than to
     WB>ignore it and lash out demeaningly at the rest of the body of the
     WB><zone. You become an island unto yourself in so doing.

     WB>IMHO, you and the other dissenters of this election, are far too
     WB>valuable to lose.  I hope you all will consider my humble opinion
     WB>and work to unite and heal and make the changes you want with a
     WB>new zone one guideline or policy.

     Ol'wdb

                               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Thom replied to Ol'wdb:
      WB> Well analyzed Thom!

     TLC>Thanks!

      WB> Plus we have a new level head at Z1 controls.
      WB> I hope the other zones improve as much in the
      WB> coming year, as we have in this zone.

     TLC> I second that thought.  If they don't, it's gonna be a long,
     TLC> uphill fight.

      WB> Personally, I don't see a need for a "IC" hat.  The extra
      WB> tie-breaking vote?  Oh well I am happy with our NA Zone One now,
      WB> and any of the candidates could have been a fine Z1C, and
      WB> qualified to become the IC if the ZCC just has to have a
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 6                    8 Jan 2001


      WB> tie-breaker.

     TLC> Yes, there doesn't seem to be much of a need for an IC...and
     especially one defined as the most equal of equal peers.  The current
     IC's actions are a perfect example of "Some animals are more equal
     than others."

     TLC> If there needs to be an IC, it most likely should be someone that
     is NOT a current ZC, thus, you'd have and uneven number of votes, and
     someone who, theoretically, is removed from a zone issue.

     TLC> But, considered what's mandated by P4, we all need to carefully
     watch, as much as we can, the actions of the ZC's.  I would hope that
     in addition to posts in public echoes, Fidonet members communicate in
     very clear terms their opinions.

     TLC> While there is no mandate that the ZC's must listen, if we don't
     communicate, we're giving them an easy out to decide as best they
     can...and we have ample proof that their last selection of IC was not
     in the best interests of Fidonet.


     Thom LaCosta
     baltimoremd@baltimoremd.com
     http://www.baltimoremd.com/
     ---
      * Origin: Home of The Other Robot (1:261/1352)

                              ~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~


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     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 7                    8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                              GUEST EDITORIAL
     =================================================================

                        by: Dave Hamilton

     To: editor@fidonews.org   01-06-01

     Warren - I wrote this days ago and forgot to send it to you. I gotta
     start eating fish or something..

     And we'll have fun fun fun till our *C takes our listing away Dave
     Hamilton 1:229/622

     I'm rarely short of comments about Fidonet politics, but Steven
     Leeman's plea for sysop support brought lots of opinions into play.
     Many of them were from Z1 sysops. Most sysops were offended by what
     they considered to be an obvious abuse of power by the Z2C/IC. Many
     are still offended. A netmail friend wonders how "this has slipped
     through the cracks of Justice."

     We anti-policy folks figured this would be a point for our side. I was
     hoping to gain a convert or two besides Steven Leeman himself, but it
     didn't take long to see that it wasn't going to happen. Dallas Hinton
     sent me a single, contextless message in the Z1C echo, saying "I told
     you so." Excuse me? He told me what? That Ward Dossche has a history
     of abusing sysops? If he does, has anyone ever cared enough to point
     that out, since he was running for IC? Maybe Dallas was referring to
     the occurrance of power abuse that will happen within the walls of the
     beloved PeeFour rat's maze? No, wait, that would have been me telling
     him, "I told you so."

     The Debating Team in favour of policy has been arguing that there is
     no power, or at least it exists only in the mind of the sysop who
     allows herself/himself to be abused. Well, well. Those of us in the
     hated Region 12 who by-and-large ignore P4 altogether take that for
     granted. You stick someone with a text editor into the /0 slot in a
     nodelist segment and the power has been handed over to that person for
     the duration of their occupation of that line in the list. The time
     for the sysop to imagine this power came and went with this action,
     and now it belongs to the *C. Whether the sysop will ever be able to
     get it back depends upon too many variables to enumerate here, but the
     current policy document leaves it with the group of RCs commonly
     referred to as elflords. PeeFour even gives them examples of how use
     of this power can be justified.

     I find it difficult to empathize with folks who are calling this
     threat to remove a sysop "injustice" and expecting their whining to
     accomplish anything for any Fidonet sysop in the world. It reminds me
     of people who enter a religious building on their favourite day of the
     week, pray intensely for all the starving children in the world, then
     return to work, congratulating themselves on their compassion.

     David Calafrancesco has a very clear understanding of Ward's policy
     peccadillo: he calls it extortion. David presents a cogent case that
     Ward's threat to forcefully remove a personal asset (Fidonet
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 8                    8 Jan 2001


     membership) from Steven Leeman unless Steven hands over other of his
     personal assets (internet domain names he has registered) is a
     criminal act. Maybe this argument is where my friend's reference to
     justice comes from. I'd like to agree with David but I don't know
     Belgian law, so I can't comment.

     What I do know is Fidonet policy, and it doesn't define extortion. It
     gives loaded weapons to people who edit the nodelist. It does say that
     they can't shoot members with those methods for no reason at all. But
     whatever reason they come up with only has to be justified by *Cs.
     Sysops have no rights whatsoever. *Cs are not accountable to us. Some
     of them choose to be accountable to their nets or regions or zones,
     but they are not required to do so by policy, and this Dossche-Leeman
     affair is an excellent example. If you had any belief that elflords
     are accountable to sysops, Ward has just explained and demonstrated
     that they are not.

     Should Ward Dossche step down? I don't think this is a relevant
     question. I would rather see us wonder if we as sysops should have a
     way to decide that, rather than just decide if we should ask him
     nicely to please not threaten any more sysops.

     If sysops want rights we are going to have to take them back. The
     elflords are not going to give us rights. The Zone 1 RCC had the
     opportunity to give Zone 1 sysops the right to vote in our Z1C
     election, and they turned that opportunity down, leaving the decision
     with the RCs just as policy dictates.

     Let me be establish dibs on the "I told you so" point for the next
     debate about power when the next sysop gets jerked around at some
     elflord's whim. It will happen again because policy invites it. If the
     next victim recovers it will be because some collection of sysops will
     ignore policy or make exceptions to it or otherwise work around it.
     Maybe a sufficient number of sysops near the scene will be able to
     grow a spine and route around the offender. We can always hope.

                         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     Editor's Note:
     All of the facts stated above by David, are as true as sunshine.
     If Sysops want to have any say in Fidonet, they best get their act
     together and form a new "P5".  The old P4 has eroded over the last
     decade as has the nodelist.  A lot of it's guidelines are good, and a
     lot are inaccurate in todays technology, still other parts are upside
     down to what the Sysops want in return for supporting Fidonet.

     With out Sysops, Fidonet ceases to exist.  The *C's have a problem
     with each other as it is on many occasions.  It would fall apart.

     On a brighter note, should the Sysops be given voice via voting power
     the nodelist may start to grow again.

                           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 9                    8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                            LAND OF LOST NODES
     =================================================================


     This was originally published in record or tape form, I can't remember
     which, by a Canadian disc jockey in the late 1950s or early 1960s and
     was played quite often on the radio.  The disc jockey spoke the words,
     he did not attempt to sing them.  It still is as true now as it was
     then, 40 years ago. Fidonews is working to be a good neighbor too.

             TRIBUTE TO THE UNITED STATES

     This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

     America: The Good Neighbor.

     Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
     recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
     Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
     Commentator. What follows is the full text of his
     trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

     "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
     Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
     Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
     Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
     forgave other billions in debts. None of these
     countries is today paying even the interest on its
     remaining debts to the United States.

     When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
     it was the Americans who propped it up, and their
     reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
     of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

     When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
     United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
     American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
     Nobody helped.

     The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
     billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now
     newspapers in those countries are writing about the
     decadent, warmongering Americans.

     I'd like to see just one of those countries that
     is gloating over the erosion of the United States
     dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
     in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
     Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
     If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
     International lines except Russia fly American Planes?

     Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
     a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 10                   8 Jan 2001


     technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
     technocracy, and you get automobiles.

     You talk about American technocracy, and you find
     men on the moon - not once, but several times -
     and safely home again.

     You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
     right in the store window for everybody to look at.
     Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
     They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
     they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
     dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

     When the railways of France, Germany and India
     were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
     who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
     the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
     old caboose. Both are still broke.

     I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
     to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
     me even one time when someone else raced to the
     Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
     help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

     Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
     Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
     kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
     their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
     to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
     over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of
     those."

     Stand proud, America!

     Wear it proudly!!

     This is one of the best editorials that I have ever
     read regarding the United States. It is nice that
     one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of the
     world would realize it. We are always blamed for
     everything, and never even get a thank you for the
     things we do.

     I would hope that each of you would send this to
     as many people as you can and emphasize the USA has
     always been a good neighbor.

                         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 11                   8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                     LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK
     =================================================================


     Mon 1 Jan 01  1:52p
     By: Joe Jared
     To: Torbjorn Mohn
     Re: Yuck!
     St:
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Hello Torbjorn!

     Monday January 01 2001 14:47, you wrote to Frank Vest:

      >FV> Further, IMHO, it isn't right to grab a message from an
      >FV> administrative echo in one Zone and post it in the Fidonews.
      >FV> If you are going to do this, you should have access to each
      >FV> Zone's administrative echos and grab from them all.... either
      >FV> that, or open Z1C to all of Fidonet for consumption.

      TM> Very well put, and I agree 100%. Also the issue of quoting
      TM> PRIVATE email messages publically without the consent of the
      TM> sender, is bad.

     JJ>I forwarded my private email to Warren.  By definition, by
     JJ>forwarding said email messages to Warren, the email became public
     JJdomain.

     JJ> Further, since the email brought forth an issue relevent to Zone 1
     JJ> any definition of 'Explicitly confidential' should be considered
     JJ> moot.

      TM> Not only because it's to be regarded as PRIVATE, but also
      TM> technically, there is no way of actually verifying that the
      TM> content has not been tampered with. A public message is something
      TM> else, because everyone

     JJ>On my reputation, the email from Ward was unmodified, other than
     JJ>for purposes of formatting.  Ward basically stated between the
     JJ>lines that he would rule on zone 1 matters if this issue was
     JJ>opposed.  By making the issue public, I challenged him to do so.
     JJ>I do agree however that Warren should ask permission to post
     JJ>echomail messages in fidonews.  The right to complain however
     JJ>falls on the poster, and since you weren't quoted...

      TM> known only to the sender and the recipient. Not that I suspect
      TM> that anyone here is lying or "fixing" such messages they quote,
      TM> but one can never be 100% sure, bacause it's so easy to do.
      TM> Also "the art of selective quoting" can bring out a very
      TM> interesting view on things. A long and private exchange of
      TM> arguments can turn out very bad, if one of the parties suddenly
      TM> decides to go public with only parts of the conversation.

     JJ>I've known Ward's email address for quite some time, and the fact
     JJ>that he responded to my email to him is verification enough.
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 12                   8 Jan 2001


     JJ>I know that the email from Ward is valid, and hope that on its own
     JJ>merit that it becomes his undoing. I rarely take a stand on issues,
     JJ>but hope for the sake of fidonet that people realize just how much
     JJ> of a power monger that he is, and fight for his removal.

      TM> Therefore to all of you in here, who seem to be so concerned
      TM> about Fidonet ethics, I think it's indeed unethical to publicise
      TM> private conversations, NO MATTER WHAT the reason for doing so
      TM> might be.

      TM> Happy new year everybody, and may we all think about the future
      TM> of Fidonet when dealing with the issues at hand. Ethics is indeed
      TM> difficult. :)

     JJ>Very much so.

     joejared@osirusoft.com

      * Origin: telnet://telnet.osirusoft.com (1:103/301)

                         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      > Hello Frank!
      >
      > FV> Further still, The size of the Fidonews has more than
      > FV> quadrupled and I don't believe that people want to wade through
      > FV> especially if they can't make heads or tails of it.
      >
      BQ> I agree!  I just didn't want to be the first to speak up and say
      BQ> anything.
      >
     WB>Well the cat's out of the box now! <Chuckle>  I promise that there
     WB>wont ever be a Snooze that long again.  'Twas an unusual situation
     WB>and a New Year edition.  IF one bothered to read the header, one
     WB>would have been advised that a lot of quoting was present, to read
     WB>WHO said what to WHOM. No confusion read that way.

     WB>It was important to represent each sysop's input on the subject
     WB>fairly.  To leave anyone out would bring cries of censorship.
     WB>Haven't been accused of that! heehee

     WB>Aside from the length this issue, it isn't easy editing the many
     WB>errors Donews finds. Especially the illegal characters.

     WD>Ok, Bobby, thanks for your input also.  Will try harder to please
     WB>all with a shorter Snooze.  Sure be less work for me. 8^)

     Ol'wdb

      * Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401 (1:103/401)

                                ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 13                   8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                            FIDO NAVAL STORIES
     =================================================================


                       Naval Lore - Brass Monkey
            (Don't know as I  believe this one, but could be)

     Every sailing ship had to have cannon for protection. Cannon of the
     times required round iron cannonballs. The master wanted to store the
     cannonballs such that they could be of instant use when needed, yet
     not roll around the gun deck. The solution was to stack them up in a
     square-based pyramid next to the cannon. The top level of the stack
     had one ball, the next level down had four, the next had nine, the
     next had sixteen, and so on.  Four levels would provide a stack of 30
     cannonballs. The only real problem was how to keep the bottom level
     from sliding out from under the weight of the higher levels. To do
     this, they devised a small brass plate ("brass monkey") with one
     rounded indentation for each cannonball in the bottom layer.

     Brass was used because the cannonballs wouldn't rust to the "brass
     monkey," but would rust to an iron one. When temperature falls, brass
     contracts in size faster than iron. As it got cold on the gun decks,
     the indentations in the brass monkey would get smaller than the iron
     cannonballs they were holding. If the temperature got cold enough, the
     bottom layer would pop out of the indentations spilling the entire
     pyramid over the deck.

     Thus it was, quite literally, "cold enough to freeze the balls off a
     brass monkey."

                            ~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 14                   8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                             GETTING TECHNICAL
     =================================================================

     By: David Hallford
     To: Carol Shenkenberger
     Re: My Questions for Candidates
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      > *** Quoting Foxy Ferguson from a message to Mark
      > Lewis ***

     FF> currently used tossers would have to be re-worked by the authors.
     FF> And some of those authors are long gone from Fidonet, as you
     FF> know. And the odds of everybody switchin' to some new tosser just
     FF> to take advantage of a new flag, well, you figger 'em....

     > True, but what if it was in the comment ,U, area?
     > Might be useful to know the exact feed the site
     > uses if it was considered 'optional' but could be
     > used if a net went 'blinkers' on the node? If
     > added that way, would be useful for ION's as well
     > as POTS sites?

     > Tracking the feed of an ION if their net goes
     > down and they feed outside of it, can be very
     > awkward indeed.

     > David, repost the RIVA here?  I'd like to take a
     > closer look.  I'm thinking as an end node
     > listing, could be very useful here in R13 if a
     > HOST goes down.

     > It doesn't have to be implemented by mailers to be
     > useful as text.

                                            xxcarol


     The are from my working notes, Carol. Please ignore all misspellings.
     The file is dated 12/1/99 which is the last time I played with the
     software.


     ==========================
     USE OF MRVIA and RVIA FLAGS
     ----------------------------
     A. MRVIA flag

      1. This flag should be used by the Network/Region Coordinator,Host,
     or Network/Region Echomail Coordinator to indicate the primary path
     for echomail routed netmail into the net/region.

      2. In a flag field of the nodelist the MRVIA flag would be used
     indicating the three dimensional node number of that node which will
     route the netmail to the network/region listed in the node number
     field for the nodelist on that line. There can be only one MRVIA flag
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 15                   8 Jan 2001


     for a network and only one for the region level. This flag is normally
     on the NEC or REC's nodelist entry.


     B. RVIA Flag

       1. This flag should not be used by nodes whose routing path is
     covered by either Host routing or an Echo-Routed netmail path list
     maintained as each zone decides. It should, however, be used if no
     true routing data is available for a node.

       2. In a flag field of the nodelist the RVIA flag would be used
     indicating the three dimensional node number of that node which will
     route the netmail to the node listed in the node number field for the
     nodelist on that line.

       As an example: An IP only node is in a network where the NC and mail
     hub cannot directly communicate with him/her. This means that both
     Host routed and echo-routed netmail would not reach that node. In this
     case the RVIA flag would  indicate the best place to route the nodes
     netmail.

     PROGRAM
     ---------

        1. PARSE DATA FROM NODELIST Already written. Use FLAGLIST for RVIA
     and MRVIA. Outputs are RVIA.TXT and MRVIA.TXT. These are raw nodelist
     entries with the node number in 3D format.

        2. INPUT DATA INTO DATABASE
     Already written. Import the TXT files into a database only 3 fields
     needed NODE NUMBER, FEED, and TYPE (RVIA or MRVIA)

        3. OUTPUTS a. RAW
     (low level). This is an actual list of each node's feed. One line per
     entry (already written) b. Intermediate level. Take the RAW data and
     combine it into a list of feeds and the nodes they feed.

      FEED   NODE, NODE, NODE, ETC C. High level. Chase the feed paths and
     combine them.  As an example if 1:208/103 got a feed from 1:202/800
     and 1:202/800 got a feed from 1:12/12 the output would be:
     RAW 1:208/103 1:202/800 1:202/800 1:12/12 High Level 1:12/12 1:202/800
     1:208/103

        If the feed marker were MRVIA for 1:202/800 the output would be:
     1:12/12 1:202/* 1:208/103 d. Difference list. A difference list should
     be generated from the RAW data so folks would only have to look at
     what changed.

           NOTE: If the flag is MRVIA then the node become /*

      * Origin: The Psychotic Submarine (1:211/103)

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 16                   8 Jan 2001


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 17                   8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                               POET'S CORNER
     =================================================================

                     Post-Christmas Poetry

     'Twas the month after Christmas,
     and all through the house
     Nothing would fit me, not even a blouse.
     The cookies I'd nibbled, the eggnog I'd taste
     All the holiday parties had gone to my waist.

     When I got on the scales there arose such a number!
     When I walked to the store (less a walk than a lumber).
     I'd remember the marvelous meals I'd prepared;
     The gravies and sauces and beef nicely rared,
     The wine and the rum balls, the bread and the cheese
     And the way I'd never said, "No thank you, please."

     As I dressed myself in my husband's old shirt
     And prepared once again to do battle with dirt--
     I said to myself, as I only can
     "You can't spend a winter
     disguised as a man!"

     So, away with the last of the sour cream dip,
     Get rid of the fruit cake,
     every cracker and chip
     Every last bit of food that I like must be banished
     'Till all the additional ounces have vanished.

     I won't have a cookie, not even a lick.
     I'll want only to chew on a long celery stick.

     I won't have hot biscuits, or corn bread, or pie,
     I'll munch on a carrot and quietly cry.

     I'm hungry, I'm lonesome, and life is a bore---
     But isn't that what January is for?

     Unable to giggle, no longer a riot.
     Happy New Year to all
      and to all a good diet!

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 18                   8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                                  ECHOING
     =================================================================

     Fri 5 Jan 01  6:38a
     By: Ward Dossche
     To: Fidonews Robot
     Re: Re: FidoNews 18:01 [00/10] Editorial
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Dear Mr. Robot Sah,

     Freedom of the press is a beautifull thing. Unfortunately that same
     freedom is not devoid of abuse.
     Example ... the "Chat with Editor"-contribution of:

      F I D O N E W S         Volume 18, Number 01             1 Jan 2001

     By: Bart Verhaeghe
     To: All
     Re: Ward Dossche The abuse Story.
     --------------------------------------------------------------------
     Dear International Fidonet Sysop's. I am here to inform you of the
     abuse of Ward Dossche. Just some time ago I was a downlink of Ward.
     But the cable company was ready in Belgium so I took the cable and,
     I asked Johan Zwiekhorst (RC29) if I could poll his system instead
     by IP, That was fine for Johan and I informed Ward about my decision

     Ward's reply to Fidonews Robot:
     What Bart fails to mention is that it was yours truly who pointed him
     to Johan Zwiekhorst whom, in my opinion, at that time was the onlyone
     technically available to provide the technical service requested. Both
     Johan and I also discussed Bart's imminent transition between feeds
     (Johan undoubtedly can confirm this).

     What Bart equally fails to mention is that I assisted Johan Zwiekhorst
     to the best of my abilities in order to get him a reliable link in
     zone-1 in order to service Bart's request. (both Johan and John
     Souvestre will also confirm this when prompted).

     BV> Like changing my password so I could not areafix to his system to
     BV> disconnect my echomail.

     WD> It is indeed a know fact you need to send your areafix-requests
     WD> here to "areafix" and not "areamanager". And I don't think even
     WD> Bart will dissagree if
     WD> I state I performed a manual-disconnect for hundreds of
     WD> conferences. Most likely he will concur that at my suggestion he
     WD> was added to Johan Zwiekhorst's hub-entry because technically it
     WD>  made more sense than remaining listed under my hub.

     BV> He says that there is a historical rule that say's
     BV> that the ic/zc2 has to take mail from the r28-bone.

     WD> Way in time the R29-sysops agreed on a single import-system,
     WD> largely to settle a rather ferocious mail-war. This has never been
     WD> IC/ZC2-related.
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 19                   8 Jan 2001


     BV> His whole mailer system is "historic"...no %rescan; ...

     What do you expect if conferences are "passthru"?

     > ... no Msgid ...

     WD> There is no rule about that.

     BV> and he still strips seenbye's ...

     WD> Which is a requirement when you are gating echomail to other
     WD> zones (in this case John Souvestre).

     BV> Third Chapter of this story He made another people think I am a
     BV> bad person by saying in a R29 area (west-vlaams.reg) with another
     BV> college (Alfred Vossen) that he is not welcome ....

     WD> This calls for some serious quoting ...

     ************************* QUOTE *************************
     Date: 08 Oct 00  19:23:19
     From: Ward Dossche
       To: Bart Verhaeghe
     Subj: Re: dikkoppen
     ______________________________________________________________________
     Bart,

     >WD> Het verhaal van BACKBONE.B vertelt voldoende en de houding t.o.v.
     >WD> Alfred Vossen, die het alleen maar wat plezanter probeerde te
     >WD> maken,
     >WD> vond ik nu niet echt van het beste dat ik al ooit mocht lezen.

     >BV> never mind sluit hem af dan zijn we van hem af he .

     >WD> Ik denk er niet aan.

     >WD> Alfred is een van de meest positief ingestelde gasten in gans
     >WD> R29, je zou blij moeten zijn dat hij voor wat flow en wat
     >WD> kwaliteit wil helpen zorgen.

     >WD> Ik heb gezegd!

     >WD>  \x/ard
     ************************ UNQUOTE ************************

     Translated this goes about as follows:

     ************************* START TRANSLATE *************************
     >WD> The story in BACKBONE.B says it all and the attitude towards
     >WD> Alfred Vossen, who only tried to cheer-up matters a little bit,
     >WD> wasn't perceived by me as the best I've been able to read so far.

     > BV> That doesn't matter, you just drop his link and then we're rid
     > BV> of him.

     > WD> I don't even think of it.
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 20                   8 Jan 2001


     > WD> Alfred is one of the most positive oriented guys in the whole
     > WD> of R29,
     > WD> you should be pleased he wants to enhance the flow and quality.

     > WD> I have spoken!
     ************************ END TRANSLATE ************************

     BV>So my dear fidonet sysop's I hope I've shed some more light on Ward
     BV> Dossche's abusive power as ic/zc2.

     BV> Groeten, Bart Verhaeghe Fidonet  : 2:292/907 Web-Site :

     WD> In fact the only thing which has happened is a gross
     WD> misrepresentation of documented facts to which hardly any defense
     WD> is possible.

     WD> Those that don't care, they simply don't care while those that do
     WD>  will take this and other communications irrelevant of truth and/
     WD> or content and make certain it becomes an urban legend.

     WD> \x/@rd

     WD>--- DB 1.58/001877
     WD> * Origin: Many Glacier via ADSL - BinkD on 'glacier.mine.nu'
     WD> (2:292/854)

                            ~~~~~~~~~~~End~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 21                   8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                                   HUMOR
     =================================================================


                          Red Neck Birth Control

     After having their 11th child, an Alabama couple decided that was
     enough, as they could not afford a larger bed.   So the husband went
     to his doctor/veterinarian and told him that he and his wife/cousin
     didn't want to have any more children.

     The doctor told him that there was a procedure called a vasectomy that
     could fix the problem but that it was expensive.  A less costly
     alternative, said the doctor, was to go home, get a cherry-bomb
     (fire-works are legal in Alabama), light it, put it in a beer can,
     then hold the can up to his ear and count to ten.

     The Alabaman said to the doctor, "I may not be the smartest man in the
     world,but I don't see how putting a cherry-bomb in a beer can next to
     my ear is going to help me."  "Trust me" said the doctor.  So the man
     went home, lit a cherry-bomb and put it in a beer-can.  He held the
     can up to his ear and began to count, 1,2,3,4,5, at which point he
     paused, placed the can between his legs, and resumed counting on his
     other hand.

     This procedure also works in Tennessee,Virginia, Mississippi,and West
     Virginia.

     UPDATE; Florida,registered voters have just been added to this list.

                         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 22                   8 Jan 2001


     =================================================================
                            FIDONET BY INTERNET
     =================================================================

     ------------------------------------------------------
     *Fidonet-related sites

                       . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
                       |    FIDONET-RELATED SITES    |
                       ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
                          Last update:  December 30, 2000

     FidoNet
     Homepage:     http://www.fidonet.org
     FidoNews:     http://www.fidonews.org   [HTML]
                   ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
                   ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
     Echolist:     http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
     Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
     SDS Files:    http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
     FTSC page:    http://www.ftsc.org/
     General:      http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

     Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org
       Region 10:  http://www.r10.org
         Net 102   http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
         Net 103:  http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
         Net 203:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
       Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
        Net 2410:  http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
       Region 12:  http://sparkys.dyndns.org
       Region 13:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
         Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/
         Net 275:  http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
       Region 14:  http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
         Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
       Region 15:  <vacant>
       Region 16:  <vacant>
       Region 17:  http://www.region17.net
         Net 140:  http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
       Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

       Region 19:  http://bise.tzo.com/r19
         Net 124:  http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
                   http://texoma.net/~flv
         Net 130:  http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
         Net 393:  http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

     Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org
                   ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
       Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
       Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

       Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
                   http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
         Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 23                   8 Jan 2001


       Region 25:  http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
       Region 26:  http://www.nemesis.ie
          REC 26:  http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
       Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
       Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)
                   http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
       Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)
     ? Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net  (Italian)
       Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
           REC34:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
       Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
       Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
       Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
       Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz
     !    Net422:  http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
       Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
        Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5028:  HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
        Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
        Net 5049:  http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org  (English/Russian)
        Net 5074:  http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
     ??  Net 5085:  http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

     Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

     Zone 4:
       Region 80:  http://fidobrasil.8m.com  (Portuguese)
       Region 90:
         Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

     Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

     Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
       Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
                   (Chinese)


                          Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

     See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

     a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
     address. The email is translated as follows
     firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
     appropriate individual's email.  Anyone in this list will
     also receive routed notice of this feature.  In my case, it
     would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.

     Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
     latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
     time between when the message is received, and when it is
     sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
     defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
     immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
     after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 24                   8 Jan 2001


                v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
                | email address or
     Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
                |                   |                |latency|
     -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
     Zone 1     |                   |                |       |
       10/3     | Brenda Donovan    | FTP,UUE,BinkP  | 384K,30| n/c
       10/345   @ Todd Cochrane     | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,!  | n/c
       13/25    @ Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
       18/500   @ Ross Cassell      | FTP, BinkP     |128K+,!| n/c
      19/68     | Ben Ritchey       | UUE:BFDS       | 33.6k | n/c
      103/5     @ Mark Luetger      | BinkP          | 384k,!| n/c
      103/153   @ Michael Box       | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      103/301   @ Joe Jared         | BinkP,FTP,NFS  | 384k,!| n/c
      103/401   @ Warren Bonner     | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      105/8     | Russ Johnson      | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k  | n/c
      105/72    @ Larry James       | FTP, BinkP     | aDSL  | $50/yr
      106/1     @ Steve Loupe       | BinkP, FTP     | 128k  | ???
      106/6018  | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP, VMoT      | aDSL,60| n/c
      107/453   @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
      140/1     @ Bob Seaborn       | FTP,BinkP      | T3,30 | $5/$16
      167/133   | Stephen Monteith  | BinkP          | 128k+ | n/c
      211/417   @ Korombos          | BinkP,UUE,FTP  | T1    | n/c
      220/10    | groberts@nexusbbs.net |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c
      218/109   @ Matt Munson       | BinkP,UUE      | 33.6k | n/c
      246/160   @ Mason Vye         | FTP, UUE       | 56K   | n/c
      249/116   | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE    |ADSL,60 | n/c
      280/169   | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
      342/3     @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP      | 128K+ | n/c
      395/670   | Arthur Stark      | BinkD,FTP      | CABLE | n/c
      379/1     @ Dale Ross         | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
      396/1     @ John Souvestre    | FTP,VMoT       | T1,10 | $5/mo
      396/45    | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr
     2604/104   @ Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo
     2613/404   @ David Moufarrege  | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
     2624/306   | David Calafrancesco  | VMoT        | 33.6  | n/c
     3407/4     @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE,FTP            | 28.8  | n/c
     3632/84    | Robert Todd    |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
     3651/9     @ Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 2     |
       20/11    | Henrik Lindhe     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
       31/1     | Gabriel Plutzar   | BinkP          | T1+   | n/c
      203/600   | Mikael Karlsson   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
      221/360   @ Tommi Koivula     | BinkP,UUE      | ???   | n/c
      236/205   @ Michael Kaaber    | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      246/2098  | Volker Imre       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      280/1601  @ Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
      292/620   | Eddy Missoul      | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k   |N/C
      292/624   | Steven Leeman     | UUE          | 64k     | N/C
      292/907   | Bart Verhaeghe    | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K   | n/c
      292/2003  | Eric Vaneberck    | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      301/1     | Peter Witschi     | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      332/807   | Roberto Mascolo   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      335/535   @ Mario Mure        | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k   | n/c
      335/610   | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 25                   8 Jan 2001


      344/201   | Julio Garcia      | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      346/3     @ Carlos Navarro    | UUE            | ???   | n/c
      382/100   | Sinisa Burina     | BinkP,ifcico   | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Ofir Michaeli &   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Marius Kaizerman  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      423/81    | Milos Bajer       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      465/204   | Va Milushnikov    | BinkP          | 33.6k | n/c
      469/84    | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
      480/112   | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k  | n/c
      550/4077  | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE            | ----- | n/c
     2411/413   @ Dennis Dittrich   | UUE,BinkP      | 64k   | n/c
     2446/301   @ Lothar Behet      | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K   | n/c
     2474/275   | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
     5030/115   | Andrey Podkolzin  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5100/8     | Egons Bush        | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5020/1159  | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE          | 33.6  | n/c
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 3
      633/260   @ Malcolm Miles     | FTP,BinkP      | 64K   | n/c
      640/954   | Rick Van Ruth     | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
      774/605   @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 4
      801/161   @ Renato Zambon     | UUE            | 33.6  |n/c
      905/100   | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k  | n/c
      902/18    | Javier Tejedor    | UUE            | 33,6  | n/c

     --
     * FTP   = Internet File Transfer Protocol
     * VMoT  = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
     * UUE   = uuencode<->email type transfers
     * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
     * NFS   = Linux Networking
     ----------------------------------------------
     Fidonet oriented news servers

     news.osirusoft.com
     news.tardis.net

     Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

     room #fidonet  5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
     irc.osirusoft.com  (Peers wanted)

     ----------------------------------------------

     Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
     Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com.  All email addresses
     here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
     obtaining a feed.  Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
     most especially, email addressed to blockme@relays.osirusoft.com
     will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
     stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com


     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 26                   8 Jan 2001


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     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 27                   8 Jan 2001


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     FIDONEWS 18-02               Page 28                   8 Jan 2001


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