      F I D O N E W S         Volume 18, Number 12             19 Mar 2001
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the   |Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are  |
     |    FidoNet community     | Registered Trademarks of Tom Jennings   |
     |    Copyright through     |    San Francisco, California, USA       |
     |          2007            |   Crash Netmail Attach Articled To:     |
     |          _               |  fido news@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778)   |
     |         /  \             |           for Telnet and Bink:          |             |
     |        /|oo \            |           Fidonews@1:2320/100           |
     |       (_|  /_)           |        Filegate.net or 64.38.85.9       |                                          |
     |        _`@/_ \    _      |                                         |
     |       |     | \   \\     |           Editor: Warren Bonner         |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))    |           editor@fidonews.org           |
     |       |__U__| /  \//     |           wdbonner@pacbell.net          |
     |        _//|| _\   /      |                                         |
     |       (_/(_|(____/       |                                         |
     |             (jm)         |   Newspapers should have no friends.    |
     |                          |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER   |
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
       Copyright 2001 by Editor Warren D. Bonner for Fidonews Globally.


                        Table of Contents
     1. CHAT WITH THE EDITOR  .....................................  1
        <<< EDITORIAL >>>  ........................................  1
        //+\ GUESTS INPUT /+\\  ...................................  3
     2. LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK  .........................  6
     3. ARTICLES  .................................................  8
        ARTICLES  .................................................  8
     4. OL'WDB'S COLUMN  .......................................... 11
        -=+ FRANK'S  COLUMN +=-  .................................. 11
     5. RECIPES  .................................................. 15
     6. HUMOR  .................................................... 17
        From: "R. B. Crowninshield" <mutha@capeonramp.com>  ....... 17
     7. NOTICES  .................................................. 20
        >>> NOTICE <<<  ........................................... 20
     8. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ...................................... 23
     9. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  ..................................... 28
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 1                   19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                           CHAT WITH THE EDITOR
     =================================================================


     By: Warren Bonner
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     Hi folks,
     There has been considerable dialogue in fidonews, in fact it has
     become one of the heaviest traveled echoes past few weeks.

     That pleases me greatly as it is proof of enough stimulation on the
     editors' part to generate interest in fidonet and fidonews.

     Some folks are a tad combative and then put tongue in cheek as if they
     were really kidding all along.  Thats fine, that is the morter that
     holds the bricks together.  Some readily accept reality when it is
     presented in a warm sincere way, while others prefer to fight to the
     bitter end on a lost cause, for whatever reasons they may have, and
     that is okay too... It takes all kinds of spices to make a good salsa.

     My own troubled concern is about those who find it impossible that
     they are wrong about anything; worse yet, will not apologize when they
     are proven wrong. This is a sad weakness in some men who come to think
     of themselves in a far grander light than others see them.

     There are many submissions for exposure of their views in the Fidonews
     I took samplings and tried to be even handed in presenting everyone's
     views, even though I know the vast majority of readers know who is
     running on an agenda, and who is presenting the truth. Please bear in
     mind that each person has a right to be heard no matter their
     misinformation and half truths.  It is everyone freedom of speech.
     Soo.. with that in mind, I apologize for the redundant quotes, if you
     will try to understand the various authors' submissions.  Also keep in
     mind that Fidonews goes out globally, and services thousands of nodes
     and points that are not privvy to the Fnews echo where most of the
     discussions take place.

     Just a couple of notes here: From: Malcolm Miles <mgm-ns@tardis.net>

     MM> I agree here. While Tom may hold these trademarks in relation to
     selling computer software and programs in the USA, it has no relevance
     to our use of the words as part of Fidonet the network.

     Best wishes, Malcolm

     WB>True in a way, except Tom Jennings gave Fidonews editors permission
     to use his T-M doggie floppy ASCII graphic in it's Banner and has been
     there by tradition since mid 80's. Since his trademark is embedded if
     you will, in the history as well as each issue of Fidonews, and
     wrapped in the editors copyright, I can't accept your analogy of the
     facts.
     ===============8<---------------------
     (6596)  Sun 18 Mar 01 12:36a >
     By: Janis Kracht > To: Ward Dossche > Re: Re: [5 of 6] FidoNews
     --------------------------------------
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 2                   19 Mar 2001


     Hi Ward,

     WD> Further to that the "Dog with diskette" has never been registered
     with the USPTO at all.

     JK> You are wrong about this as well. See the item marked with an
     asterisk below please: USPO: Word Mark: FIDONET Goods and Services IC
     009. US 038. G & S: COMPUTER PROGRAMS AND ACCOMPANYING USER MANUALS.
     FIRST USE: 19840618. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19840915
     * Mark Drawing Code
     (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 73591035.
     > [...]

     Take care, Janis

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     Why is this peeing contest necessary you may wonder?

     Because Ward wants a reason to try to wrest control of Fidonews from
     the editor in Zone one!

     Watch his moves very carefully.  He intends to control who is editor
     of Fidonews and the Zone it resides in.

     His reason is simple: Fidonews exposed his P4 violation in removing
     Steven Leeman from the nodelist in Zone two. He doesn't intend to get
     caught with his pants down again, and have Fidonews expose him again.
     He intends to get control of Fidonews in Zone two via a puppet
     perhaps?

     Using a one time emergency to break tradition of Fidonews editors
     "passing the torch" after a time to the next editor, no matter what
     zone the next editor resides in.

     However the step by step, message by message in the past week has made
     his intent very clear posted in his own words in his last post:

     > (6588)  Sun 18 Mar 01  3:55a
     > By: Ward Dossche > To: Philip Lozier
     >
     Re: Re: [5 of 6] FidoNews 18:11 > St:
     >----------------------------------------
     > Dear Philip,
     >
     >PL> Warren, you may publish this if you wish...
     >
     WD> This could be fun becoz' do I have some news for you ... ;-)

     WD> The one currently assuming the role of editor has been appointed

     WD> by the IC, not by the outgoing editor
     for reasons which we all
     WD> know (I hope) and regret.
     WD> It is a universally accepted legal principle that the body
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 3                   19 Mar 2001


     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     WD>which appoints a person can also recall him/her.
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
     >

     WB> And there you have it folks!  In my humble opinion, the above
     statement is the reason Ward started this tirade last Thursday, and
     has fervently pursued it in his every post.

     He is trying to take a Tradition away from Fidonews by taking
     advantage of a one time emergency in the death of my friend Doug
     Meyers PE. (Past Editor).
     He has denounced every T-M and ASCII drawing as bogus, and
     belittled all Zones except two for their being smaller,
     and continued to imply Z2 is the power of Fidonet.

     David Mouferrege past IC did approve me as I was the lead Columnist
     in the Snooze, and for that emergency only, appointed "Pro Tem".
     The ninety days passed and no one else was selected by the ZCC to
     give their recommendation to the IC.

     And I became editor on a permanent basis. The emergency does not
     remove the editor's naming his successor as done since the beginning
     of Fidonews to prevent political power hungry people from control.

     Watch very carefully....  guard your Snooze.

     Ol'wdb

     --- InterMail 2.29k * Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/
     1:103/401 (1:103/401)



     -----------------------------------------------------------------


     By: Thom LaCosta

     Ward Dossche wrote in a message to Philip Lozier:

     WD> Pressured a little bit by Janis Kracht who was pressured by Thom
     Lacoste who takes Warren Bonner's words for granted and neither of
     them checking any of the statements made by the other I went
     researching the matter myself.

     TL> Ward, we need to get a few things straight:

     TL> A. I don't take anyone's word for granted,
     TL> B. I did check the United States Patent and Trademark Office
     database online.

     TL> What I found, and what has been confirmed by Janis, Malcom Miles
     and Tom Jennings is that the trademark for FidoNet is registerd to Tom
     Jennings, is current and will not expire until 2007.

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 4                   19 Mar 2001


     WD> Here in Belgium I'm 3,900 nautical miles from Washington DC which
     puts me farther away from the USPTO (United States Patent and
     Trademark Office) than anyone in the continental USA yet it seems I'm
     the firstone who actually has taken the time to research their
     records.

     TL> You're not only not the first to research the records, but also
     not the first do do a bad research job.

     WD> This is the result which I pass to you with a broad smile and a
     chuckle hoping that the Thom Lacostes, Warren Bonners and all the
     others who like to debate issues without knowing the facts read it.

     TL> Ward, your spelling skills of last names matches your research
     skills... it's faulty.

     TL> As far as the "broad smile and a chuckle", I'm having one now,
     thinking of you reading the email from Malcom and Tom Jennings...which
     totally disagree with your pronouncements and faulty research.

     WD> However ... I did the research and here follows the USPTO-story
     (United States Patent and Trademark Office):

     TL> I'd suggest you carefully read the email from Malcom Miles and
     reread the sections of the USPTO information he quotes.  The reference
     can be viewed at:
     http://www.uspto.gov.web/offices/com/sol/tmlwtrty/postreg.htm

     WD> It seems before embarking on the warpath people need to learn to
     check the facts prior to mailing-out stuff which doesn't make sense.
     However, hadn't Warren Bonner and Thom Lacosta not done so I would've
     never contacted the USPTO. So maybe they did me a  WD> favor after
     all.

     LT> Perhaps you contacted a different USPTO than the one that
     publishes regulations and posts them on the internet?  Since you state
     you have contacted them, can you share the name of the person you
     contacted? I'd really like to confirm that this person made statements
     that appear to fly in the face of public record.

     LT> Perhaps that person should apologize to you for giving inaccurate
     information, just as my original communications on the subject not
     only asked that you stop making inaccurate statements, but also
     apologize for those you had made.

     WD> Any discussion about trademarks, copyrights, "dogs with or without
     diskettes", the Fidonews-editor and more of these matters is
     useless.

     LT> No Ward, any denial on your part about the validity of the Fidonet
     trademark is useless.

     WD> At the current rate zone-1 expires in 47.2 weeks, that is
     January/February 2002. This will not happen 100%, of course, but in
     the end there will be a mere handfull of self-inflated Napoleons
     making lotsa noise but carrying little weight.
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 5                   19 Mar 2001


     LT> Interesting choice of words....self-inflated Napoleons making
     lotsa noise.

     LT> Perhaps phrases like "Takes one to know one", or "If the shoe
     fits. wear it" apply to your statement.

     Thom
     baltimoremd@baltimoremd.com
     http://www.tlchost.net/echolist/
     ---
      * Origin: Home of The Other Robot (1:261/1352)

                        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 6                   19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                     LETTERS ACROSS THE EDITOR'S DESK
     =================================================================

     From: "Ward Dossche" <wd@skynet.be>
     To: "Warren Bonner" <wdbonner@pacbell.net>; <z3c@z3.fidonet.org>
     Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 5:41 PM
     Subject: Re: FidoNet TradeMark (fwd)

     WD> Dear Warren,
     Any reason why you've deleted all those other wonderful CCs?

     WB> Yes.  I almost always do that as part of cleaning out the
     excessive and/or redundant verbiage to get to the meat of the matter.
     No ulterior motive, just keeping the goal of the message as pure as
     possible.  Why do you ask?

     WB>I never claimed that Malcomb.  I stated the Doggie with the floppy
     disk is theTrade Mark belonging to Tom Jennings, who has given
     fidonews editor permission to use.

     WD> That is 100% purse nonsense.

     WB> Don't understand your contention or contest of what I know I have
     said.  Are you trying to be degrading and evasive?  If so, you are
     succeeding in showing your contempt to all who respect and keep whole
     the laws and traditions of the many nations that make up our
     Fidonet... The one you as IC should be supporting with all of your
     abilities to grow, not be chopping and hacking at the traditions that
     make it strong and viable.

     WD> There is no current trademark covering "Fidonet" nor the "Dog With
     Diskette".

     WB> That as you well know is a lie.  Janis has sent you the number of
     the graphic TJ was issued with his trade mark.

     WD> You have not one single shred of proof except one single webpage
     from a private company.

     WB> Honestly Ward, I did not even know of the webpage you refer to.  I
     go by the information on the US Patent Office that I sent you day
     before yesterday.

     WD> Do I have news for you ... their information is hopelessly
     outdated and incorrect. In the meantime I was able to retrieve 100%
     accurate records, names, dates and places and will within 24 hours
     expose these in the relevant echoes, incl. FIDONEWS.

     WB> Great!!! That boils down to the facts at the USPO and the only
     ones that count, in your denial of TJ's ownership of the trade mark he
     has given Fidonews permission to use, in the determination of it's
     existance you so ferverently deny.  While you are there don't forget
     to check the trade mark extention law amendments. Then apologize to
     everyone for your bullheadedness.

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 7                   19 Mar 2001


     WD> Unfortunately for you, that will effectively end any discussion on
     that | subject since there is indeed no current trademark.

     WB> That is another evasive falsehood and denial on your part, and
     your denial is blatently without merit.

     WD> If you want to elaborate further on your completely wrong position
     I suggest you breathe deep, take a walk around the block and wait
     until you see what's coming your way (and the ZCs, and Thom Lacoste's,
     and some other guys' in FIDONEWS) and not make a complete fool of
     yourself for not checking the real records of the government of the US
     of A.

     WB> Ward, I personally have no problem breathing or walking a couple
     of miles a day, and the company of the ZCC's and Thom Lacosta would be
     very nice and pleasureable I am sure.  I don't believe that the rest
     of Fidonet is looking in our direction at a complete fool.

     WD> Strange I can do this thousands of miles away but the locals
     can't.

     WB> Stranger still is your lack of comprehension of English used by
     the USPO in defining it's amendments to the code you stopped reading
     as soon as you came to the end of the second 6 year term of the trade
     mark.  The amendments clearly extend all TM's many years.  That was
     done primarily because the work load for renewals was exceeding the
     budget according to my senator in Washington.

     WD> Have a nice remainder of your weekend
     Ward

     Et tu, Ward.
     Ol'wdb
     8^)
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 8                   19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                 ARTICLES
     =================================================================


     By: Ward Dossche
     To: Philip Lozier
     Dear Philip,

     PL> Warren, you may publish this if you wish...

     WD> This could be fun becoz' do I have some news for you ... ;-)

     PL> Ward... not to start a flame fest here, but I do believe that
     Warren  has sufficiently established that FidoNews was registered
     in the US by  Tom Jennings, provided the registration information,
     and is working on establishing that any future editor of FidoNews
     has permission to utilize this trade mark as stated by Tom...

     WD>Pressured a little bit by Janis Kracht who was pressured by Thom
     Lacoste who takes Warren Bonner's words for granted and neither of
     them checking any of the statements made by the other I went
     researching the matter myself.

     WD> Here in Belgium I'm 3,900 nautical miles from Washington DC which
     puts me farther away from the USPTO (United States Patent and
     Trademark Office) than anyone in the continental USA yet it seems I'm
     the firstone who actually has taken the time to research their
     records.

     WD> This is the result which I pass to you with a broad smile and a
     chuckle hoping that the Thom Lacostes, Warren Bonners and all the
     others who like to debate issues without knowing the facts read it.

     WD> Mr. Warren Bonner cites little justification for his claims re:
     Fidonet- trademarks. He did not research USPTO-records which should
     have been his primary source of information. Had he done so he would
     have the information that would make him very silent on the issue.

     WD> However ... I did the research and here follows the USPTO-story
     (United States Patent and Trademark Office):

     WD> 1) There is a trace of a Fidonet-listing with the name of Tom
     Jennings 2) It was registered on Aug.18 1987 for a 6-year period 3) It
     was renewed on Aug.3 1993 for another 6 year period 4) The renewal for
     6 years was registered on Dec.14 1993 5) No further action has been
     undertaken since which means the trademark expired on Dec.14 1999 and
     is up for grabs to anyone who wants to pay the required fees.

     WD> Don't believe me? Contact the USPTO yourself.

         General Information Services Division U.S. Patent and Trademark
         Office Crystal Plaza 3, Room 2C02 Washington, DC 20231

     By phone

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 9                   19 Mar 2001


         800-786-9199 or 703-308-4357

     WD> Further to that the "Dog with diskette" has never been registered
     with the USPTO at all.

     WD> Based on all this I repeat my claim that each and every mention of
     Fidonet- trademarks and "Dog-with-diskette" style-things here, in
     nodelists, in Fidonews (without being limited in my summing-up) is
     completely irrelevant and other than taking-up space is absolutely
     unimportant.

     At least I cannot be blamed for not having done my homework ...

     I rest my case.

     Nevertheless, a trademark-mention is present in zone-2's version of
     the world- nodelist. Of course, no-one ever cared to check that but
     those that would like to do so can access
     ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2
     and retrieve between 1 and 2 months worth of nodelists from zone-2
     with the trademark-notice clear for all to see.

     It seems before embarking on the warpath people need to learn to
     check the facts prior to mailing-out stuff which doesn't make
     sense. However, hadn't Warren Bonner and Thom Lacosta not done so
     I would've never contacted the USPTO.
     So maybe they did me a favor after all.

     PL> FidoNews, according to this information, is the property of the
      current editor, and has nothing to do with any C structure whatsoever
      (Right up tou your IC slot)...

     WD>The one currently assuming the role of editor has been appointed by
     the IC, not by the outgoing editor for reasons which we all know (I
     hope) and regret.

     It is a universally accepted legal principle that the body which
     appoints a person can also recall him/her.

     PL> the English translation is not unreasonable, as the > official
     language of "FidoNet" (not echoes) -is- English...

     WD> With close to 40% of the nodes coming from Russia and another 45%
     being non- anglophile-based maybe it should be Russian ... ;-) <joke!>

     LP> ... my voice has been known within my region to support the fact
     > that any proposed changes made within Z1 in regards to major
     FidoNet
     >
     matters -MUST- take the considerations of -ALL- zones into effect.

     WD> Don't misunderstand me, but in a way this is amusing. It
     demonstrates you haven't yet understood the law of the numbers. Look
     at this my freind... you state that Z2 is 90% of FidoNet... ... well,
     it's 86% as a metter of fact with zone-1 occupying 9%. During the
     last 5 weeks zone-2 has lost 81 nodes, that is 0.77% of its capacity.
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 10                  19 Mar 2001


     Zone-1, during the same time frame, lost 90 nodes which is 8.47% of
     its capacity.

     WD> What do I mean by that?

     WD> Any discussion about trademarks, copyrights, "dogs with or
     without diskettes", the Fidonews-editor and more of these matters
     is useless.

     WD>The real item to be discussed, but which most people avoid like
     the Plague, is what kind of future is still available in zone-1 with
     such a decrease which has been linear for a long while.

     WD> At the current rate zone-1 expires in 47.2 weeks, that is
     January/February 2002. This will not happen 100%, of course, but in
     the end there will be a mere handfull of self-inflated Napoleons
     making lotsa noise but carrying little weight.

     WD> So how can we keep a Fidonet-structure alive in zone-1 above and
     beyond some mailmovers who will be moving mainly zone-2 content.

      \x/@rd

                           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     ED... Well Ward can't say he wasn't given full access to the Snooze!


                           ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 11                  19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                              OL'WDB'S COLUMN
     =================================================================


               Thoughts on the Internet versus Fidonet
                            By Frank Vest

     I'm not a guru of the Internet or of Fidonet, but I've read some of
     the discussion regarding the subject of Fidonet vs Internet. Here's
     some random thinking from me. Agree, disagree or whatever. :)

     Got to thinking, "Where is the power in the Internet"? Really... What
     gives the Internet it's power. Is it the graphics that it can produce?
     I don't really think so. Any server program with the right receiving
     program can "display" graphics. I say "display" because the receiving
     program is really what does the translation and display. All the
     server, or sender, does is send the files. The "browser" does all the
     work of translating those files into something readable. In reality,
     the Internet doesn't do anything more than Fidonet does in regards to
     transmitting files. In fact, if you consider that ANSI is sent "on the
     fly" and translated by the terminal program without using a "cache" of
     file(s), Fidonet is above the Internet in this regard.

     Let's look at the above from a different point of view.

     What makes the Internet work?  Well, there's the server which is a
     computer with files on it. There's the "dial-up networking" which is a
     terminal program for connecting to the server. There's the browser
     which gathers the files from the server and translates them into
     something readable. So;

     Server = Fidonet software (not the BBS stuff, just the mailer/tosser
     and such) Dial-up networking = Terminal program Browser = BBS software
     (if you're only in for mail, Point software)

     So, the Internet has taken the BBS software and made it available to
     the User in a form that is easy to setup and called it a browser. They
     kept the "complicated" server stuff for themselves to sell access to,
     and, the operating system people (Microsoft, OS/2 and such) put a
     terminal program into their OS and called it "dial-up networking".
     Wow!. :-)

     So, How about the speed?   Really? Have you ever hit a slow server?
     Sometimes, depending on the load, an Internet site can be slower than
     a BBS at 1200 baud. :)

     Well, How about the volume? Now we're getting somewhere. The Internet
     does have a big volume of stuff. I say "Stuff", because I'm not sure
     I'd call all of the things on the Internet "information". Some things
     are a little "far fetched" in my book. :)  Anyway....  Volume. In
     reality, there is probably as much volume in Fidonet as is in the
     Internet. Maybe it isn't there nowadays, but in the "heyday" of
     Fidonet, when there were some 30,000 Nodes, I'd think that the volume
     was pretty close.

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 12                  19 Mar 2001


     What about the profit/commercial aspects of the Internet?  Well...
     you're getting hotter. True, if Fidonet was a commercial venture, it
     would probably be bigger and more advanced. There would be software
     authors willing to invest time in the creation of applications for
     Fidonet and more. Of course, Fidonet is a hobby and limited to what a
     hobby can put into it, so, lets move on, but keep in mind that before
     the Internet became the big commercial venture it is today, Fidonet
     was doing commercial stuff and had many "mega" BBS systems that were
     commercial in nature.

     How about the access and connectivity?  Bingo!!  Now we have it.
     Access and connectivity! Yup, the Internet has the access and
     connectivity that Fidonet doesn't.... along with the commercial
     aspect.

     Let's think on this a minute.

     Fidonet is a collection of Nodes/Nets connected via phone numbers that
     must be dialed each time to connect. The Internet is a collection of
     Nodes/Nets that are connected on a 24 hours a day, 7 days a week phone
     network that doesn't have to be dialed each time to connect. So, what
     does this mean? Simply put, if Fidonet could connect each Node to each
     other Node via a 24/7 phone line, Fidonet could have the connectivity
     of the Internet.

     In a weird thought, "What would happen if the Internet suddenly lost
     all of it's 24/7 phone lines and had to dial each system for a connect
     and then hang up after"?  Wow! We have Fidonet by another name! :)
     Really, isn't that the major difference between Fidonet and the
     Internet? If you remove the 24/7 connection and each ISP had to call
     the other ISPs to connect for file transfers and such, wouldn't this
     be the same as each Node in Fidonet having to call the other Node(s)
     to deliver mail?

     Now, this is not going anywhere in particular. I am just making
     observations for the sake of thought. If you were to have the Users of
     the Internet call their ISP and have to request the "web Page" files
     of a desired site, or just access what was on that ISP's server, then
     disconnect and keep checking back to see if the files for that page
     had been received, wouldn't that be something??? :) The Internet
     becomes Fidonet and we could beat the pants off of them!! :-))

     I wonder how the commercial aspect of the Internet would handle such
     competition? :-))


     In summing this up: The main difference between Fidonet and the
     Internet is the commercial and connectivity aspect versus the hobby
     and connectivity aspect. You can put all the "ifs", "ands" and/or
     "buts" in that you want, it still comes down to commercial versus
     hobby. Let's keep the hobby and let the Internet have the commercial.
     I'll enjoy the hobby, try to improve and help it where I can, use the
     Internet to promote or help where possible and suggest that you do the
     same.


     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 13                  19 Mar 2001


     With kind regards,

     Frank

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     By: Frank Vest
     To: All
     Re: The real choice of Doug Myers?
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      I started to put this in an article, but decided to just dump it out
     here.

      Lot's of talk about who, what, where and when. It's nice to try to
     decipher what someone intended when they wrote something... especially
     when they are dead and not able to be asked.

      I've seen several interpretations of Doug's message about Bobby Queen
     and/or Peter Karlsson taking the position. I'm not saying that I know
     what Doug was thinking, but I do believe that he was stating that
     Bobby take over while Doug might be in the hospital with the
     understanding that, if Doug were to die during that hospital visit,
     Bobby would take the position of Fidonews Editor until someone could
     be chosen. This did not imply that Bobby, or anyone else was chosen as
     the next Editor of the Fidonews.

      I think that if one followed the messages back in this echo (assuming
     someone has them) you will find that Doug asked for volunteers for the
     position because he was going into the hospital and wasn't sure of the
     outcome of the operation he thought he was going to have performed. He
     was not naming his successor unless he was to pass away during that
     operation.

      Of course, that is just my observation and interpretation. I will
     tell you this, neither Bobby nor Peter were Doug's first choice. I
     know for a fact that Doug asked at least one other and only put the
     request in the Fidonews Echo after being turned down.

     Note:

     ----[ Netmail to keep]-----------------------------------------------
     On: Mon 3 Apr
     2000 12:10a    (Rcvd: Sun 2 Apr 2000 11:21p) By: Douglas Myers To:
     Frank Vest Re: Editor Pro Tem St: Pvt Rcvd
     --------------------------------------------------------------------
     @MSGID: 1:270/720 2f001a43 @PID: FM 2.02 Frank... there's a prospect
     that I'll be hospitalized for a few weeks sometime after April.  Would
     you like to take over the Fidonews Editor position until I can get
     back to it?  Most likely we could arrange with John Souvestre for you
     to send him the distribution copy via FTP for placement on the
     filebone.  I could send you copies of all the software and as many
     advance articles I have at the time.

     ----[ Netmail to keep]---------------------------------------------
     On: Sun 2 Apr
     2000 11:42p    (Sent: Sun 2 Apr 2000 11:43p) By: Frank Vest To:
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 14                  19 Mar 2001


     Douglas Myers Re: Editor Pro Tem St: Local Pvt Direct Imm Sent
     -------------------------------------------------------------------
     @INTL 1:270/720 1:124/6308 @MSGID: 1:124/6308@fidonet 2e97b8f8 @REPLY:
     1:270/720 2f001a43 @FLAGS IMM DIR @PID: FM+ 2.26.SW SW0000B8 @CHRS:
     IBMPC 2 @CODEPAGE: 437 @TZUTC: -0600 DM> Frank... there's a prospect
     that I'll be hospitalized for a few weeks DM> sometime after April.
     Would you like to take over the Fidonews Editor DM> position until I
     can get back to it?  Most likely we could arrange with DM> John
     Souvestre for you to send him the distribution copy via FTP for

     Whew!!  I'm deeply honored! <Catching my breath here>

     At another point in time, I'd jump on this. At this time, I have to
     say no. Being the NC of my Net and with all the stuff going on in my
     life, I don't feelI have the time needed to do the job right.

      DM> placement on the filebone.  I could send you copies of all the
     software DM> and as many advance articles I have at the time.

     On this note and considering the lack of time mentioned above, I doubt
     that I could learn the software fast enough either. Further, I don't
     have the understanding of the Internet to do this kind of thing (FTP).

     I thank you for the honor of being considered, but not this time.

     Regards,

      Frank

     --------------

     As you can see, at least one other was asked. I'd bet there were more,
     as I can't imagine that I was his first choice.

     So, where are we going with this?  Nowhere.  All we are doing is
     "chasing our tail". I guess that's what Fido dogs do? :-)


     With kind regards,

      Frank


     ... Have you ever noticed that all people laugh and cry in the same
     language

     --- PPoint 3.01 * Origin: Holy Cow! I'm A Point!! (1:124/6308.1)



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 15                  19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                  RECIPES
     =================================================================

     By: DAVE DRUM
     Re: Shank Recipe - 1
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.06

           Title: Braised Lamb Shanks
      Categories: Emeril, Lamb. Classic
           Yield: 4 Servings

           1 c  Olive oil
         1/2 c  Flour
           4    Lamb shanks (about 8 Oz. ea)
           2 c  Medium diced onions
           1 c  Medium diced carrots
           1 c  Medium diced celery
           2 tb Chopped garlic
           3    Bay leaves
           2 tb Chopped fresh thyme
           1 c  Red wine
           1 lb New potatoes, quartered
           2 qt Lamb or dark stock
         1/4 c  Parsley

       In a large stock pot or braising pot, add the olive oil.
       Season the lamb shanks with salt and pepper. Season the
       flour with Essence. Dredge the lamb shanks in the seasoned
       flour, coating each side completely. When the oil is hot,
       sear the shanks for 2 to 3 minutes on each side, or until
       very brown on all sides. Remove the shanks and set aside.
       Add the onions to the pan and saute for 2 minutes. Add the
       celery and carrots and continue to saute for 1 minute.
       Season with salt and pepper. Stir in the garlic, bay
       leaves, and thyme. Cook for 1 minute. Deglaze the pan with
       the red wine, scraping the bottom and sides to loosen the
       browned particles. Add the potatoes and stock. Bring the
       liquid up to a boil and reduce to a simmer. Add the lamb
       shanks and continue to cook for about 1 to 1 1/2 hours,
       basting the shanks often, or until the sauce is stew-like
       and the meat starts to fall of the bone. Season with salt
       and pepper. The shanks can be served alone with crusty
       bread over blue cheese polenta.

       Yield: 4 servings

       SOURCE: Emeril Live! Cooking Show; Copyright 1997, TV FOOD
       NETWORK; SHOW #EMIA46

       MM Format by Dave Drum - 15 March 2001

     MMMMM

     ENJOY!!!
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 16                  19 Mar 2001


     ... Uncle Dirty Dave's Kitchen
     ... Home of HARDIN Cider & Yaaa Hooo Ahhh Hot Sauce!!!

     ... Well, I don't eat animals 'cause plants are easier to catch.
      * Q-Blue 2.4
     --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5
      * Origin: Try Our Web Based QWK: DOCSPLACE.ORG (1:18/140)

                             ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 17                  19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                   HUMOR
     =================================================================


     A woman awoke during the night to find that her husband was not in
     bed. She put on her robe and went downstairs. He was sitting at the
     kitchen table with a cup of coffee in front of him. He appeared to be
     in deep thought, just staring at the wall.

     She saw him wipe a tear from his eye and take a sip of his coffee.
     "What's the matter dear? Why are you down here at this time of night?"
     she asked. "Do you remember twenty years ago when we were dating and
     you were only 16?" he asked. "Yes, I do," she replied. "Do you
     remember when your father caught us in the back seat  of my car making
     love?" "Yes, I remember." "Do you remember when he shoved that shotgun
     in my face and  said , 'Either you marry my daughter or spend twenty
     years in jail?" "Yes, I do," she said. He wiped another tear from his
     cheek and said, " You know...I  would have gotten out today.

                ///////\\\\\\\///////\\\\\\\///////\\\\\\\

     Poor Old Lady

     When I went to lunch today, I noticed an old lady sitting on a park
     bench sobbing her eyes out.  I stopped and asked her what was wrong.
     She said, "I have a 22 year old husband at home.  He makes love to me
     every morning and then gets up and makes me pancakes, sausage, fresh
     fruit and freshly ground coffee."


     I said, "Well, then why are you crying?"


     She said, "He makes me homemade soup for lunch and my favorite
     brownies and then makes love to me for half the afternoon".


     I said, "Well, why are you crying?"


     She said, "For dinner he makes me a gourmet meal with wine and my
     favorite dessert and then makes love to me until 2:00 a.m.


     I said, "Well, why in the world would you be crying?"


     She said, "I can't remember where I live!"

               ()()()()()()()()()_()()()_(()()()()()()()(

     1. Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me,
     for I  may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me
     the hell alone.

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 18                  19 Mar 2001


     2. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a broken fan  belt and
     a leaky tire.

     3. It's always darkest before dawn. So if you're going to steal your
     neighbor's newspaper, that's the time to do it.

     4. Sex is like air. It's not important unless you aren't getting any.

     5. Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be
     promoted.

     6. No one is listening until you fart.

     7. Always remember you're unique. Just like everyone else.

     8. Never test the depth of the water with both feet.

     9. It may be that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a
     warning to others.

     10. It is far more impressive when others discover your good qualities
     without your help.

     11. If you think nobody cares if you're alive, try missing a couple of
     car payments.

     12. Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their
     shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you
     have their shoes.

     13. If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

     14. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to
     fish, and he will sit in a boat & drink beer all day.

     15. If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was
     probably worth it.

     16. Don't squat with your spurs on.

     17. If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything.

     18. If you drink, don't park; accidents cause people.

     19. Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield.

     20. Don't worry, it only seems kinky the first time.

     21. Good judgment comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes
     from bad judgment.

     22. The quickest way to double your money is to fold it in half and
     put it back in your pocket.

     23. Timing has an awful lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 19                  19 Mar 2001


     24. A closed mouth gathers no foot.

     25. Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side & a dark side,
     and it holds the universe together.

     26. There are two theories to arguing with women.  Neither one works.

     27. Generally speaking, you aren't learning much when your mouth is
     moving.

     28. Experience is something you don't get until just after you need
     it.

     29. Never miss a good chance to shut up.

     30. We are born naked, wet, and hungry. Then things get worse.

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 20                  19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                                  NOTICES
     =================================================================


     ----- Original Message -----
     From: "Tom Jennings" <tomj@wps.com>
     To: "janis kracht" <janis@filegate.net>
     Cc: "Ward Dossche" <wd@skynet.be>;
     <sysop@f1.n770.z6.fidonet.org>;
     <lam@fidonet.org.ar>;
     "Richard Peer" <peerrk@safrica.com>;
     "Malcolm Miles"<z3c@z3.fidonet.org>; <mgm-ns@tardis.net>;
     "Thom LaCosta"<baltimoremd@baltimoremd.com>;
     "Ol'WDB"<WDBonner@pacbell.net>
     Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 11:43 PM
     Subject: Re: FidoNet TradeMark (fwd)


     I don't get involved in local squabbles.

     The text should read:

     Fido, FidoNet and the dog-with-diskette are registered trademarks
     of Tom Jennings, San Francisco California, USA.

     The little (r) things are extraneous and should be removed, and
     the P.O. box mailing address is long obsolete.

     I'm really not interested in arguing with anyone. Trademarks can
     be viewed on various databases and the existence of my trademarks
     is easily verifyable, and not subject to arguing.

     I'd appreciate it if you could make these edits, really. Thanks!

     tomj
                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, janis kracht wrote:

     Hello All,

     Today I received a request from a member of Fidonet, which I am
     forwarding to you.  As Zone 1 Coordinator, I ask that the Zone
     Coorinator Council members read this note and the attached message in
     order to help me to convince our International Coordinator, Ward
     Dossche, to return the copyright and trademark statements to the zone
     2 nodelist that he generates.  I also request that Ward publically
     rescind his statement that the trademarks and copyrights held by
     FidoSoftware and Tom Jennings are "not valid".

     Ward, as the International Coordinator of Fidonet you have stated that
     it has been your intent to protect the name of Fidonet from misuse and
     abuse as far as the ownership of internet domains which carry the name
     of fidonet (fidonet.org, fidonet.be, etc.).  Yet you have indicated
     that you have _discarded_ the copyright and trademark text on the zone
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 21                  19 Mar 2001


     2 node list, and you have stated publically that you believe that the
     trademarks held by Tom Jennings and FidoSoftware in the Fidonews
     publication and the in the nodelist are not valid.

     Please note:

     (From the nodelist)
     The FidoNet(r) NodeList, a listing of the systems within FidoNet.

     Copyright 2001, Fido Software.  All rights reserved except for the
     following:
     [...]
     Fido(r), FidoNet(r), and the dog with diskette are registered marks
     of Tom Jennings and Fido Software.

     It has come to my attention in your post in the Fidonews echo that you
     have removed the copyright and trademark text from your nodelist.
     This is a clip from your post to Warren Bonner, current Editor of
     FidoNews:

     >WD>There is no such copyright nor is there such a trademark <period>.
     When I removed that stuff from the nodelist-prolog an uproar started
     in zone-1,

     JK> Rightfully so!  You are completely wrong.  Attached is information
     that applies to the registered trademark held by Tom Jennings.  It is
     my understanding of copyright law in the United States that once
     published publically and internationally, the Copyright held by the
     editor of Fidonews is also valid.

     JK> Here is the copyright statement from Fidonews:

     "Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
     trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
     94141, and are used with permission.

     JK> Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
         Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Warren Bonner

     JK> If you need a copy of the copyright and trademark text for the
     nodelist, I will be happy to send it to you.

     Sincerely,

     Janis Kracht
     Zone 1 Coordinator
     ===============================================================
     International coordinator, IFDC FileGate Project (service mark)
     http://www.filegate.net/              Mail: janis@filegate.net
     ftp/telnet: filegate.net                         icq: 25251567
     FidoNet:    1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778)            Mandrake 7.2
     ===============================================================
          -=+ ALSO +=-
     Contrary to statements made by IC Ward Dosche, FidoNet is a registered
     trademark in the United States

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 22                  19 Mar 2001


     Serial Number 73591035
     Registration Number 1452977
     1st Use Date June 18, 1984

     Applicant, Registrant and Last Owner:
     Thomas Daniel Jennings
     2269 Market Street #118
     San Francisco, CA  94114

     Correspondent
     Danield L. Appelman
     Heller, Ehrman, White and McAuliffe
     University Avenue
     Palo Alto, CA  94301

     A similar search for Fidonet in Canada and Eurpean countries shows no
     entry.
               ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     By Thom Lacosta:

     Therefore, I am formally requesting that the Z1C communicate with the
     IC and instruct him that his statements referencing no Trademark for
     FidoNet are inaccurate, and further that he announce in public forums
     that he is in error.

     I am further requesting that in view of the nature of the trademark
     for FIdonet that the IC be instructed to reinsert the trademark
     information in the FidoNet Nodelist, in so much as he is NOT the
     trademark holder of FidoNet, and therefore is not authorized to make
     substansive changes to a public FidoNet Document.

     I am formally requesting that the Z1C communicate to the organization
     of Zone Coordinators that they not only censure the IC for his
     violations of Trademark, but also that they develop a mechanism to
     prevent the unilateral actions of any member that may result in
     violations of trademark, etc.

     I look forward to your response.

     Sincerely,

     Thom LaCosta
     1:261/1352

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 23                  19 Mar 2001


     =================================================================
                            FIDONET BY INTERNET
     =================================================================

     ------------------------------------------------------
     *Fidonet-related sites

                       . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
                       |    FIDONET-RELATED SITES    |
                       ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
                          Last update:  March 3, 2001

     FidoNet
     Homepage:     http://www.fidonet.org
     FidoNews:     http://www.fidonews.org   [HTML]
                   ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
     Echolist:     http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
     Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
     SDS Files:    http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
     FTSC page:    http://www.ftsc.org/
     General:      http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

     Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org
       Region 10:  http://www.r10.org
         Net 102   http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
         Net 103:  http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
         Net 203:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
       Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
        Net 2410:  http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
       Region 12:  http://sparkys.dyndns.org
       Region 13:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
         Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/
         Net 275:  http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
       Region 14:  http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
         Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
       Region 15:  <vacant>
       Region 16:  <vacant>
       Region 17:  http://www.region17.net
         Net 140:  http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
       Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

       Region 19:  http://bise.tzo.com/r19
         Net 124:  http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
                   http://texoma.net/~flv
         Net 130:  http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
         Net 393:  http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

     Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org
       Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
       Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

       Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
                   http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
         Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
       Region 25:  http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
       Region 26:  http://www.nemesis.ie
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 24                  19 Mar 2001


          REC 26:  http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
       Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
       Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)
                   http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
       Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)
     ? Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net  (Italian)
       Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
           REC34:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
       Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
       Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
       Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
       Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz
     !    Net422:  http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
       Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
        Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5028:  HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
        Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
        Net 5049:  http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org  (English/Russian)
        Net 5074:  http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
     ??  Net 5085:  http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

     Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

     Zone 4:
       Region 80:  http://fidobrasil.8m.com  (Portuguese)
       Region 90:
         Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

     Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

     Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
       Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
                   (Chinese)


                          Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

     See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

     a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
     address. The email is translated as follows
     firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
     appropriate individual's email.  Anyone in this list will
     also receive routed notice of this feature.  In my case, it
     would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.

     Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
     latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
     time between when the message is received, and when it is
     sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
     defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
     immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
     after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

                v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 25                  19 Mar 2001


                | email address or
     Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
                |                   |                |latency|
     -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
     Zone 1     |                   |                |       |
       10/3     | Brenda Donovan    | FTP,UUE,BinkP  | 384K,30| n/c
       10/345   @ Todd Cochrane     | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,!  | n/c
       13/25    @ Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
       18/500   @ Ross Cassell      | FTP, BinkP     |128K+,!| n/c
      103/5     @ Mark Luetger      | BinkP          | 384k,!| n/c
      103/153   @ Michael Box       | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      103/301   @ Joe Jared         | BinkP,FTP,NFS  | 384k,!| n/c
      103/401   @ Warren Bonner     | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      105/8     | Russ Johnson      | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k  | n/c
      105/72    @ Larry James       | FTP, BinkP     | aDSL  | $50/yr
      106/1     @ Steve Loupe       | BinkP, FTP     | 128k  | ???
      106/6018  | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP, VMoT      | aDSL,60| n/c
      107/453   @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
      140/1     @ Bob Seaborn       | FTP,BinkP      | T3,30 | $5/$16
      167/133   | Stephen Monteith  | BinkP          | 128k+ | n/c
      211/417   @ Korombos          | BinkP,UUE,FTP  | T1    | n/c
      220/10    | groberts@nexusbbs.net |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c
      218/109   @ Matt Munson       | BinkP,UUE      | 33.6k | n/c
      246/160   @ Mason Vye         | FTP, UUE       | 56K   | n/c
      249/116   | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE    |ADSL,60 | n/c
      280/169   | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
      342/3     @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP      | 128K+ | n/c
      395/670   | Arthur Stark      | BinkD,FTP      | CABLE | n/c
      379/1     @ Dale Ross         | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
      396/45    | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr
      396/48    | Ben Ritchey       | UUE:BFDS       | 33.6k | n/c
     2604/104   @ Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo
     2613/404   @ David Moufarrege  | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
     2624/306   | David Calafrancesco  | VMoT        | 33.6  | n/c
     3407/4     @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE,FTP            | 28.8  | n/c
     3632/84    | Robert Todd    |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
     3651/9     @ Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 2     |
       20/11    | Henrik Lindhe     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
       31/1     | Gabriel Plutzar   | BinkP          | T1+   | n/c
      203/600   | Mikael Karlsson   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
      221/360   @ Tommi Koivula     | BinkP,UUE      | ???   | n/c
      236/205   @ Michael Kaaber    | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      246/2098  | Volker Imre       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      280/1601  @ Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
      292/620   | Eddy Missoul      | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k   |N/C
      292/624   | Steven Leeman     | UUE          | 64k     | N/C
      292/907   | Bart Verhaeghe    | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K   | n/c
      292/2003  | Eric Vaneberck    | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      301/1     | Peter Witschi     | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      332/807   | Roberto Mascolo   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      335/535   @ Mario Mure        | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k   | n/c
      335/610   | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
      344/201   | Julio Garcia      | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      346/3     @ Carlos Navarro    | UUE            | ???   | n/c
     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 26                  19 Mar 2001


      382/100   | Sinisa Burina     | BinkP,ifcico   | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Ofir Michaeli &   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Marius Kaizerman  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      423/81    | Milos Bajer       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      465/204   | Va Milushnikov    | BinkP          | 33.6k | n/c
      469/84    | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
      480/112   | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k  | n/c
      550/4077  | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE            | ----- | n/c
     2411/413   @ Dennis Dittrich   | UUE,BinkP      | 64k   | n/c
     2446/301   @ Lothar Behet      | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K   | n/c
     2474/275   | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
     5030/115   | Andrey Podkolzin  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5100/8     | Egons Bush        | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5020/1159  | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE          | 33.6  | n/c
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 3
      633/260   @ Malcolm Miles     | FTP,BinkP      | 64K   | n/c
      640/954   | Rick Van Ruth     | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
      774/605   @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 4
      801/161   @ Renato Zambon     | UUE            | 33.6  |n/c
      905/100   | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k  | n/c
      902/18    | Javier Tejedor    | UUE            | 33,6  | n/c

     --
     * FTP   = Internet File Transfer Protocol
     * VMoT  = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
     * UUE   = uuencode<->email type transfers
     * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
     * NFS   = Linux Networking
     ----------------------------------------------
     Fidonet oriented news servers

     news.osirusoft.com
     news.tardis.net

     Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

     room #fidonet  5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
     irc.osirusoft.com  (Peers wanted)

     ----------------------------------------------

     Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
     Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com.  All email addresses
     here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
     obtaining a feed.  Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
     most especially, email addressed to blockme@relays.osirusoft.com
     will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
     stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com




     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 27                  19 Mar 2001


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     FIDONEWS 18-12               Page 28                  19 Mar 2001


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