      F I D O N E W S         Volume 18, Number 19             07 May 2001 
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the   |Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are  |
     |    FidoNet community     | Registered Trademarks of Tom Jennings   |
     |    Copyright through     |    San Francisco, California, USA       |
     |          2007            |                                         |
     |          _               |   Crash Netmail Attach Articles To:     |
     |         /  \             |    Editor@1:1/23 (1-972-562-8064)       |
     |        /|oo \            |           flv@texoma.net                |
     |       (_|  /_)           |                   or                    |
     |        _`@/_ \    _      |         Frank Vest@1:124/6308           |
     |       |     | \   \\     |                                         |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))    |           Editor: Frank Vest            |
     |       |__U__| /  \//     |                                         |
     |        _//|| _\   /      |                                         |
     |       (_/(_|(____/       |                                         |
     |             (jm)         |   Newspapers should have no friends.    |
     |                          |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER   |
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
         Copyright 2001 by Frank L. Vest, Editor for Fidonews Globally.


                        Table of Contents
     1. FOOD FOR THOUGHT  .........................................  1
     2. TOP STORIES  ..............................................  2
        The number you have reached is not in service  ............  2
        What Happened To WWW.FIDONET.ORG?  ........................  3
     3. GENERAL ARTICLES  .........................................  9
        The future of FIDONET?  ...................................  9
     4. EDITORIAL  ................................................ 11
        The first week as Editor. :-)  ............................ 11
     5. QUESTION OF THE WEEK  ..................................... 13
        Copyright or Trademark?  .................................. 13
     6. ANSWERS OF THE WEEK  ...................................... 14
        Answer to: "Why not carry?" From Bob Seaborn  ............. 14
        Answer to: "Why not carry?" from Renato Zambon  ........... 15
     7. INTERVIEWS  ............................................... 17
        Interview with George Roberts of Nexus BBS Software  ...... 17
     8. FRANK'S COLUMN  ........................................... 19
        Networks  ................................................. 19
     9. GETTING TECHNICAL  ........................................ 21
        Expanding a Theme on ERN  ................................. 21
     10. COMIX IN ASCII  .......................................... 23
        Cow View  ................................................. 23
     11. RECIPES  ................................................. 24
        Xxcarol's Lamb Soup  ...................................... 24
     12. CLEAN HUMOR & JOKES  ..................................... 26
        What Will Our Son Be?  .................................... 26
     13. CLASSIFIED ADS  .......................................... 27
        Rotating Ads  ............................................. 27
        Reporters Wanted  ......................................... 27
     14. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ..................................... 29
        Fidonet-related sites  .................................... 29
     15. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  .................................... 33
        How to Submit an Article  ................................. 33
     And more!
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 1                    7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                             FOOD FOR THOUGHT
     =================================================================

     If you get to thinkin' you're a person of some influence, try orderin'
     somebody else's dog around.
                               -Texas Bix Bender

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 2                    7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                                TOP STORIES
     =================================================================

                The number you have reached is not in service
                      Carl Austin Bennett 1:249/116

     Much has been said over the last two weeks about all the various
     route lists. Entries were flagged with TOMBSTONE or MISSING HOP
     in one of the lists where routes once pointed to nodes that no longer
     exist; the other list had defaulted all of these to respective RC's.

     All too easy to point fingers when it came to questions of accuracy.

     Unfortunately, the need for a more accurate route list is only
     part of the problem. The nodelist itself is too often incorrect.

     For instance, behind a routing entry like:

     ;   1:1/117  No route available                TOMBSTONE

     or the more euphemistic default route:

     ;   1:1/117  1:297/11 1:140/1                  14 20010316 RC14

     hides the rather embarassing reality that the underlying node most
     likely just does not exist and has been dead for more than a year.

     1:1/117 was ex-RC14 Ray Brown's support site for Tom Jennings'
     original FidoBBS[tm] package. FidoBBS[tm] was created in the early
     1980's and has long since been abandoned. It didn't survive Y2K.

     TomJ had left the network many years ago; the RC14's FidoBBS site
     at 1:1/117 dropped offline in early 2000 never to operate again.

     The node's still in the nodelist, although Ray's been gone for a year.

     While an empty FIDOBBS support echo is still on the backbones, the
     original FidoBBS[tm] package itself is now virtually unusable.

     Despite the efforts of subsequent co-ordinators, not only was
     an updated ROUTELST.R14 last seen in late 1999 but the nodelist
     itself contains a most awkward mix of some live nodes, many
     disconnected lines and even some just plain wrong numbers.

     It's in this context, with both nodelists and regional routelists
     severely inaccurate in places, that the creators of these ERNROUTE
     and DIFF files attempted to determine who's still connected where.

     As much as I hate to have to say it, that isn't going to be an easy
     task.

     The problems go beyond the routelist. In many places FidoNet has no
     idea whether some systems or even entire nets even still exist. The
     use of a regional "default route" - sending their mail to RC's or
     REC's if no valid path exists - might help to hide the problems, but
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 3                    7 May 2001


     it is not a solution.

     The original idea when the St. Louis-format nodelist was created in
     the mid-1980's was to split the task of maintaining nodelists among
     various co-ordinators so that each could ensure the accuracy of their
     local segment. For many years, this system worked well. It's beginning
     to break down now, largely because as ever-increasing numbers of BBSs
     silently close their doors the co-ordinator positions become vacant
     without warning.

     It's too easy now to find systems like NC293 or NC299 that respond
     with "the number you have reached is out of service" despite being
     listed in the nodelists as active sites. Any routelist built from this
     info could well be attempting to route mail to BBSs that are long
     gone.

     Any nodelist depending on updates from these missing NCs also breaks.

     In the very early days of FidoBBS, there were two key Fidonet sites:
     TomJ's site Fido #1 in San Francisco (his local net 1:125 has long
     since folded) and the nodelist keepers' site Fido #51 in St. Louis
     (net 1:100).

     Tom can be found on the Internet, but please don't bother calling the
     telephone number listed for 1:100/0 in this week's Fido nodelist.

     It's someone's voice line. A wrong number.

     Of ten systems listed for 1:100 St. Louis, at most one or two are
     still valid. A few answer voice but most of the numbers are now
     disconnected.

     It was one and a half decades ago that the group of sysops in St.
     Louis had split Fido's growing nodelist into local net/node entries so
     that it could be more readily maintained and be kept accurate.
     Perhaps, before anyone creates yet another route list to try to route
     mail to yet another local net that no longer exists, the nodelist
     should be repaired.

     The nodelist was the glue that holds Fido together. It's come apart
     now.

     The number you have reached is not in service; please check the number
     and dial your call again. This is a recording.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

                        What Happened To WWW.FIDONET.ORG?
                               By Lawrence Garvin

     Over the past several weeks, participants of the FIDONEWS echo (and a
     few others) have observed problems reaching the website at
     WWW.FIDONET.ORG. There has been a lot of conversation, accusation,
     innuendo, and confusion about this situation. I'm going to attempt, in
     this article, to walk back through the whole situation in some sort of
     organized fashion and explain what the situation is and what it will
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 4                    7 May 2001


     take to fix it.

     In the old days (this is prior to approx Feb 2000), Pennsylvania
     Online operated on the IP Network 198.69.90 -- a number I know well as
     I was an Fidonet/FTP client of PAOnline at that time. In February,
     1988, the FIDONET.ORG domain was created. To the best of my knowledge
     it has always been hosted at Pennsylvania Online, though for our
     purposes that information is trivial. What is significant is what
     exists in recent years.

     As of June, 1997, and perhaps earlier, though I cannot verify that
     information, there existed a computer system at Pennsylvania Online
     called FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG at IP Address 198.69.90.5. Among other
     things this machine was the FTP server for the FTPHub at Pennsylvania
     Online. It also hosted the website for WWW.FIDONET.ORG.

     Sometime recently, and I'm speculating February, 2000, based on dates
     recorded in transactions in the Whois databases of Network Solutions,
     Inc., new IP Network Addresses at Pennsylvania Online were added. The
     new network(s) included 216.220.160.0.

     As a result of this addition, and perhaps for other reasons I'm not
     aware of, the FIDONET.ORG systems were moved from the 198.69.90
     network to the 216.220.160 network, apparently in February, 2001.
     Perhaps because the connection upstream from 216.220.160 was better
     than the one from 198.69.90. It really matters not why, just that they
     were. Under normal circumstances moving a computer system from one IP
     network to another is a trivial issue; especially when both networks
     are owned and operated by the same entity, as in this case.

     The changes normally necessary to effect this switchover involve
     changing the IP Addresses listed in the DNS Servers for the affected
     domain, in this case FIDONET.ORG, and waiting a few hours. These
     changes were completed correctly. They can be verified by using a DNS
     utility called 'nslookup' and directly issuing a query to the Domain
     Name Server that is authoritative for the FIDONET.ORG domain to list
     the addresses registered. On my OS/2 system, the process goes like
     this:

         [G:\temp]nslookup - dns1.paonline.com
         Default Server:  dns1.paonline.com
         IP Address:  216.220.160.7

         > ls -t A fidonet.org.
         [dns1.paonline.com]
          fidonet.org.                   server = dns1.paonline.com
          fidonet.org.                   server = dns2.paonline.com
          z2                             server = ns.bofh.it
          z2                             server = ns0.fido.net
          z2                             server = ns1.fido.net
          z2                             server = ns4.fido.net
          z2                             server = ns.datanova.se
          z2                             server = ns2.corbina.net
          z3                             server = verdi.tardis.net
          z3                             server = fidonet.fidonet.org
          z4                             server = dns1.paonline.com
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 5                    7 May 2001


          z4                             server = dns2.paonline.com
          z5                             server = dns1.paonline.com
          z5                             server = dns2.paonline.com
          z6                             server = ns.shim.org
          z6                             server = ns2.shim.org
          z6                             server = fidonet.fidonet.org
          gnfido                         server = ns.gn.apc.org
          gnfido                         server = ns1.igc.apc.org
          fidonet                        216.220.174.11
          www                            216.220.174.11
          ftp                            216.220.174.11
          n340.z1                        server = ns1.spydernet.com
          n340.z1                        server = fidonet.fidonet.org
          www.z1                         216.220.174.11
          ftp.z1                         216.220.174.11

     You can see from this list that the three FIDONET.ORG systems are
     listed and assigned to IP Address 216.220.174.11, and in most other
     circumstances this would end the conversion process.

     However, a couple of unique conditions exist that are complicating the
     process for some people to access WWW.FIDONET.ORG, and, unfortunately,
     only George Peace can fix them.

     The first condition is that although WWW.FIDONET.ORG points to the
     same IP Address as FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG, apparently WWW.FIDONET.ORG has
     been created as a Virtual Web Server on that machine and is configured
     to redirect all web service requests to FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG. Even this
     would not be a real issue since FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG is the same
     computer system (though I do have reservations about the efficiency of
     redirecting an address to the same machine). A more appropriate
     configuration would be to list WWW.FIDONET.ORG in the DNS as a CNAME
     entry pointing to FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG and removing the redirections.

     A second, more critical, condition exists that is causing the
     interference with some people to access the Fidonet Web Site. When a
     web user enters http://www.fidonet.org into their web browser of
     choice, a query is sent to the Domain Name Service to retrieve the IP
     Address of WWW.FIDONET.ORG. In every case, the address returned is
     216.220.174.11. This part of the DNS is working properly.

     The browser then sents a request to 216.220.174.11 to retrieve the
     home page for WWW.FIDONET.ORG. But the redirection in place sends a
     message back to the browser that says "The stuff you want is actually
     at FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG, go get it from there". The web server is dumb
     as to the fact that it's the same machine. So, the browser repeats
     this process and sends a query to the Domain Name Service to retrieve
     the IP Address of FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG -- and here's where things start
     breaking down.

     This gets very complex inside the operation of the Domain Name
     Service. I'll do my best to describe it in simple terms. If I fail,
     please feel free to send echomail (in FIDONEWS), netmail, or email and
     I'll be happy to try again. Another good source is the book "DNS And
     BIND" published by O'Reilly and Associates.

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 6                    7 May 2001


     So, what happens at this point, apparently, is one of two things. Some
     computers, like mine, who have already identified an address in the
     FIDONET.ORG domain, retain information in their cache as to where they
     received that DNS information from. The next time a query needs to be
     made for an address in that domain, they retrieve the information they
     have on the "authoritative server" from the cache and send the query
     direct rather than going up the chain and back down. For those
     computers, they get back the real IP Address of FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG
     (216.220.174.11) and promptly view what purports to be the Fidonet.Org
     website.

     But some other computers apparently are not so smart. They send out
     the query for FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG from scratch. The nature of the
     Domain Name Service is that queries always go from here, to the top,
     and back down. Hopefully, on the way up, a server will be found that
     knows the answer to the query. If not, they refer the query to the
     next higher server. When it gets to the top (the root servers) they
     refer the query to the "authoritative server". In this case, the
     "authoritative server" for FIDONET.ORG is DNS1.PAONLINE.COM. However,
     if any server along the way claims to know the answer to the query, it
     answers the query, and reports the answer as "non-authoritative". This
     is essentially what is happening. Incorrect information is being
     provided by a non-authoritative server (but only because that
     information should be correct, and it isn't).

     In the particular situation that affects FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG, there is
     an additional piece of information registered in the Domain Name
     Service that is causing these second type of queries to be given
     incorrect answers.

     I'm going to back up just a bit to catch up on some details. In order
     for the root servers to know where the authoritative servers actually
     are (that is, their IP Address), each Domain Name Server must be
     registered with the registering authority. There are several
     authorities these days, but for purposes of this article, we'll
     concentrate only on Network Solutions, Inc., as they affect this
     situation exclusively. To register one's Domain Name Server, you fill
     out a Host Registration, which includes the system name, your contact
     info, and the IP Address of the system, and that information is
     submitted to the Whois database at Network Solutions, Inc., along with
     the Domain Name Registration. Then the Host Registration information
     is also submitted to the Domain Name Service. These Host Registrations
     are then "hard-coded" into the root servers so that the IP Address of
     the authoritative server for any domain can be given to a query
     presented.

     Having covered that, our fundamental problem with FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG
     is that there exists a Host Registration record for that system with
     the old IP Address of 198.69.90.5 and the only person that can change
     this information is George Peace. It's an arguable circumstance that
     the Host Registration record should have never existed in the first
     place, as I don't know whether or not that system was ever a Domain
     Name Server for FIDONET.ORG; what's certain is that it is not a Domain
     Name Server at this time and, therefore, does not need to be there at
     all.

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 7                    7 May 2001


     The week before last I sent an email to George Peace asking him to
     look into this. I received no reply. Late last week I submitted a
     renegade request to delete the Host Registration record. An
     interesting feature of the Whois database system is that while only
     the authorized person(s) can actually implement a change to the data
     in the database, anybody can submit a request to make the change. What
     happens in this case is that a submission to delete the Host
     Registration record is flagged because the submitter is not authorized
     to make the change. Then, Network Solutions sends a notice to the
     authorized person(s), in this case George Peace, informing them that
     somebody attempted to make a change. The authorized person(s) then
     have an opportunity to approve the change, or prohibit the change. If
     they fails to respond, the request is automatically denied.

     In any event, until George Peace authorizes a change, or Network
     Solutions determines the entry is invalid -- which would take a formal
     complaint, I imagine -- many persons are going to have challenges
     viewing this site. There are numerous ways to workaround the
     situation, but all of them involve George Peace, ultimately, to
     implement a permanent fix. George seems to be unresponsive to these
     requests.

     All of the above has absolutely nothing to do with the parallel
     discussions concering the content of the site at WWW.FIDONET.ORG,
     which, although clean in presentation (IMHO), does contain some out of
     date information -- most notably broken links to non-existant echomail
     distribution hubs, as well as the pratically non-existant Zone 1 site.
     The links to Zone 2, Zone 3, and Zone 6 are functional, though no
     content exists at the Zone 3 site. Zone 4 and Zone 5 do not have a
     link configured.

     As to the update of the content at the site, much has been said and
     written about who is, or is not, responsible for that content. That
     discussion is really beyond the scope of this article as it matters
     not what that content is, or is not, until the world can reliably
     navigate to the site.

     I will also leave the suggestion to those most concerned that
     sometimes the telephone is the best way to conduct business such as
     this. I would imagine a polite telephone call during normal working
     hours to George at Pennsylvania Online with a polite request to look
     into the Host Registration issues with FIDONET.FIDONET.ORG and an
     explanation of how that is impacting access to the site by a
     significant number of persons would go a long way to resolving this
     issue. There are several fixes available, and most of them take merely
     seconds to implement. The ones that come immediately to mind, in order
     of preference are:

         1. Remove the redirection from www.fidonet.org to
            fidonet.fidonet.org and let the system at 216.220.160.11 answer
            as www.fidonet.org, totally removing fidonet.fidonet.org from
            existence.

         2. Edit the DNS to list www.fidonet.org as a CNAME to
            fidonet.fidonet.org (which should permit those clients having
            difficulty to get the correct IP address to fidonet.fidonet.org
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 8                    7 May 2001


            while attempting to resolve www.fidonet.org via the CNAME
            entry).

         3. The ultimate, and correct, though of longest duration fix, is
            to remove the unnecessary Host Registration record for
            fidonet.fidonet.org from the Whois databases at
            networksolutions.com

     Personally I think all three should be accomplished.

     One thing is certain, though. Until these issues are resolved, any
     discussions or arguments about content are an exercise in futility.

     Lawrence Garvin
     1:106/6018

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 9                    7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                             GENERAL ARTICLES
     =================================================================

                             The future of FIDONET?
                         by Henk den Adel (2:280/6415)

     The subject of this article -or rather my point of view- indicates
     that there is something like a future for FIDONET, although the
     question mark burps up that ever present taste of doubt. If you are
     succeptible to the signs, you can not deny that decline in FIDONET is
     present. Many efforts have been done to stop this decline, many
     efforts were counter productive and have merely sped up the decline.

     Decline has a negative taste, although decline is absolutely
     inevitable. Each human being will decline, our natural resources will
     decline, our sun will decline, our galaxy will decline, even the
     universe itself will suffer the inevitable decline. Time scale is all
     that matters. But how much time do we have? The same question arises
     when man is confronted with serious illness. He/she will come to the
     conclusion that only a limited amount of time remains, so he/she
     makes a wise decision: "Make the best of it, as long as it lasts".
     FIDONET can be seen as a patient with only a limited amount of time.
     So lets make the best of it. How?

     Well, we do not have to reinvent the wheel, others have done that in
     advance. Early in the 19th century Watt figured out that a steam
     engine would be an nice gadget to lighten mans labour. In the late
     1830ies the first steam locomotives laid the foundation of mass
     transport. Unfortunately steam engines were not quite so practical in
     the London Underground, electricity presented itself as the successor
     of steam power. Nowadays steam locomotives are hardly seen in
     western Europe. In the third world steam is still an intricate part
     of live.

     Although steam engines are no longer the common way of commuting in
     Western Europe, yet many people are still interested in steam
     engines. Each country has one or more 'steam clubs' in a sense that
     transcends the steam clubs in Turkish baths. Some people spend nearly
     every minute of their leasure time to restorate e.g. old steam
     locomotives, for no other purpose than to have fun. Nevertheless
     steam power will not return as an alternative for electricially
     driven mass transport. When steam clubs are assembling for a national
     meeting, their members travel by electrical trains, occasionally
     Diesel trains. Although these people love steam, they are
     sufficiently realistic about steam, they will not dream about a steam
     driven TGV, Porsche, Airbus 400, or Ariane 7.

     Yet another analogy. Some radio amateurs pratice the Morse code. The
     trick of this code is that it enables its user to make contact with
     another ham as far as right 'down under', with as little power as
     possible and a transmitter as simple as possible. Other hams use Slow
     Scan TV, voice communication as in single side band, AM or FM,
     written info by RTTY, FAX or AMTOR. Whatever means they use, they all
     depend on the ability of the ionosphere to reflect radio waves.  But
     solar storms can prevent them from making contact. In the age of
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 10                   7 May 2001


     telecommunication satelites a rather disapointing situation. Never-
     theless hams love it. Yet they are realistic enough to realise that
     satcom is here to stay, Morse code will not replace the phone or FAX.

     So lets face it, the Internet drain will not disappear merely by the
     fact that FIDONET used to be a huge network. By no means FIDONET will
     regain its leading position in transferring information between
     people. Nevertheless we can enjoy being a FIDO node, since it is our
     hobby and hobbies should be fun.

     The essence of FIDONET, the Internet and Radio Amateurism is
     'communication'. People need to communicate. It does not matter
     whether they make a chat in the elevator, use the phone, go to the
     pub, fire up their morse tranceiver, type a message in an echomail
     area, write a letter to the editor of the local newspaper, contribute
     to a newsgroup in the Internet, all are just different shapes of the
     basic C: communication.

     Now i will return to the subject of these thoughts.

     - "Will there be a future for FIDONET?" Yes.
     - "Will FIDONET be restored in its glorious glitter of the late
        1980ies and early 1990ies?" No.

     FIDO will be nothing more and nothing less than the the steam engine
     or the morse code, just another way to commute or communicate. It can
     be fun, it should be fun and it will be fun, as long as we FIDO nodes
     prevent FIDONET from sliding down into FITONET.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 11                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                                 EDITORIAL
     =================================================================

                            The first week as Editor


      Well... In my first week as Editor, I managed to get into a
     discussion with Michael Grant that ended in an article submission. I
     had a discussion with Lesley-Dee over a submission and ended up
     publishing her article after meeting the guidelines. Carl Austin
     Bennett sent in an article and it was published after getting a title
     from him. I made adjustments to the rules for the Fidonews Echo, as I
     discovered, thanks to Michiel van der Vlist, that they were a little
     un-clear in one portion. I'm not going to count how many times I went
     through the control files for the production of the Fidonews and made
     changes to them. :)

     All in all, not a bad week. :-))

     All of the above has brought to light some thoughts to keep in mind
     when submitting articles.

     1. Just because it's clear to you, doesn't mean it's clear to all.

     2. In Fidonet message areas and article submissions, it can be hard to
     tell what emotions are being conveyed. Readers aren't there when we
     write an article or a message. This makes it a little hard, at times,
     to know what the feelings of the person writing the article or message
     are. I might be joking with someone and some other person might think
     I'm "busting someone's chops".

     3. A title in an article can speak volumes.

       On that last note:

      I don't have a crystal ball and I'm not a mind reader. I won't try to
     guess what your submission is about. Besides, the title will appear in
     the index portion of the Fidonews and give readers an idea of what is
     in the Fidonews and what your article is about. Please title your
     submission.


      I have this feeling that some might wonder what and how I think in
     regards to the Fidonews. IOW, what will this Editor accept and such.

      I'll accept articles from anyone that wishes to submit them. If I
     have a question about the article, I'll ask the submitter and try to
     work out any problems. Most likely, we will work them out. While I
     feel that the Fidonews is the Newspaper of the Fidonet community, I
     also understand that there are boundaries and rules to be followed.

      The Fidonews isn't a "rag magazine". It isn't a "free for all"
     message posting and quoting forum. I'll question any submissions that
     I feel are not proper for the Fidonews... This doesn't mean that "I'm
     right and you're wrong". It simply means that we need to work out
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 12                   7 May 2001


     whatever I feel is a problem. Please, don't be afraid to tell me your
     side to a question I might ask about your submission. More times than
     not, I'm probably the one misunderstanding what you are submitting.
     :-)

      My idea of what the Fidonews Publication and the Fidonews Echo are
     for is really simple.

      The Publication is for printing of articles. Articles should be
     submitted to the Publication, not posted in the Echo. They should be
     thought provoking, humorous, informational, technical or any number of
     combinations. There may be more combinations, but these come to mind.

     The Echo is for the discussion of the aforementioned articles.
     Submissions to the Fidonews publication will, or should, be seen for
     the first time in the publication. If articles are taken from the
     Echo, then the discussion has probably already taken place and this
     ruins the whole purpose and process. IOW, it's backwards.

      What is not needed is hate and gossip. Of course, what constitutes
     hate and gossip is a matter of opinion, but I think that almost any
     subject or opinion, properly presented, can be of benefit.

      In this light, I intend to guide the Fidonews. I need you to help by
     submitting articles and, occasionally, guiding me. :-)

     Regards,

      Frank - Fidonews Editor

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 13                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                           QUESTION OF THE WEEK
     =================================================================

                            Copyright or Trademark?

     Some of the talk this week has been regarding the "Fidonet" name and
     the "dog with diskette".

     Q: Is the "dog with diskette" a tradmark or copyrighted?

     Q: Is the name "Fido" or "Fidonet" a trademark or copyrighted?

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 14                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                            ANSWERS OF THE WEEK
     =================================================================

                          Answer to: "Why not carry?"
                                From Bob Seaborn

     Note: This was sent to me by Bob Seaborn with permission to print in
     the Fidonews

     Evening Frank,

      Regarding the recent issue of Fidonews, in which you stated:

     "In an article last week, Renato Zambon wrote about becoming the Z4C.
      My congratulations to him.

      Part of the article mentioned Echomail areas available in his Zone.
      I've heard that there are many Echomail areas in other Zones that are
      not carried in Zone 1. My questions:

      Why not?

      Why shouldn't the Backbones in Zone 1 carry some of these echos?

      There are those in Zone 1 that speak other languages. Why not give
      them a chance to get message echos in their language, or better yet,
      from their homeland? For that matter, why shouldn't all Zones carry
      echos from other Zones?"



           I would like to advise you that I have been offered numerous
     echos (50-100) from zone 2, some in English from the UK Backbone which
     I have a direct link with, and some from other parts of Z2, mostly
     non-English. However, I am reluctant to make them available within
     zone 1, primarily because the echo, shall we call it policies?, of z2
     differ widely from those in z1. Primarily in the echolisting
     requirements.  Not that I'm a stickler for requiring an echo to be
     elisted before transporting it.  Far from it, more to avoid the
     problems like we saw some time ago when Ward Dossche asked the ZHubs
     in zone 1 to distribute his ZCC-PUBLIC echo, which he didn't bother
     elisting. Then after a short while Bob Moravsik proceeded to elist the
     same echo-tag, then demanded that we ZHubs cease transporting 'his'
     echo.  It took some time, plus yelling and screaming before we could
     convince Moravsik that we were NOT transporting _his_ echo, but that
     of Ward Dossche, which used the same echo-tag.

           With all the 'rescuers' and 'saviours' out there, plus the few
     individuals that appear to delight in deliberately causing problems, I
     see no need to aid them by transporting un-elisted echos that just
     scream to be hijacked.  Factor in that most likely there will be a
     fair number of non-English speaking moderators, and all we'll see is
     confusion and trouble. None of which I think Fido needs at this time.

           As a matter of interest, I am most willing to work with ANY
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 15                   7 May 2001


     non-zone1 moderators to get their echos elisted, and I have a Robot
     equipped to automagically update their echo every month, in such a way
     that there's no mention of the Robot anywhere, each moderator receives
     a direct acknowledgement of the submission direct from the Elist
     Robot.  I have no plans to be involved in moderation, and I am not
     listed in the Elist entry for these echos.  If this will help some
     moderators, fine, if they wish to make their own arrangements,
     excellent.

           Anyhow, I hope this serves as a partial answer to the question
     that you raised.


                            .....Bob

     Fido: 1:140/12
     email: bob@nwstar.com

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

                           Answer to "Why not carry?"
                               From Renato Zambon


      Editor:
      In last weeks "Question of the Week" section, I asked why there
      weren't more echos from other Zones and in other languages available
      in the Zone 1 backbones. Renato Zambon replied to me with this
      explaination and permission to print it.


     Renato:
     Lack of interest, lack of other languages knowledge, lack of well
     organized information about these areas, a combination of these
     reasons I think. The last however is being worked with aid of the
     WWB (World Wide Backbone). Here is the part about regional and other
     languages echolists from the weekly information file backstat.ww (I
     did strip some space columns, and day in file dates, to adjust at
     70 so you can place this message in Fidonews):

     -----8<-----
     3. World Wide Backbone Regional Echolists

     Filename      Size  Date Description
     ------------ ----- ----- ---------------------------------------------
     WWB-BRA.480   1302 03/01 Brazilian Portuguese echos via 4:801/161
     WWB-DUFR.229  7445 01/01 Belgian Dutch/French echos via 2:292/624
     WWB-FIN.222   3618 04/01 Zone 2 Finnish echos via 2:221/0
     WWB-FRA.230    318 10/99 Switzerland French echos via 2:301/1
     WWB-GER.224  43549 01/01 Zone 2 Region 24 German echos Forward List
     WWB-GER.230   2343 10/99 Switzerland German echos via 2:301/1
     WWB-IL.240     482 10/00 Israel R40 public echoes
     WWB-IRL.226    588 12/00 Regional echos from Ireland R26 via 2:263/950
     WWB-ITA.233   8058 02/00 Zone 2 Region 33 Italian echos Forward List
     WWB-MD.240    1029 10/00 Moldova public echoes (Russian, Romanian)
     WWB-POL.248   5215 11/00 Polish EchoMail via 2:480/112
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 16                   7 May 2001


     WWB-RUS.250  78463 02/99 Russian echos (Region 50 backbone echolist)
     WWB-SPA.234  10887 03/01 Spanish echos via 2:341/14@fidonet
     WWB-SWE.220  15038 04/01 Swedish echos via 2:20/11

     Bones of Regional listings are generally in their native language.
     Sysops desiring further information, english translations, hub
     locations etc are advised to seek support in the WWB_TECH echoarea.
     Regional echolists are distributed in the WWB_FWDL file echo.

     Naming Conventions: Regional forward lists are prefixed "WWB-"
     followed by a three letter language designation eg: SWE for Swedish.
     The suffix format is .<Zone><Region><Region> Thus WWB-SWE.220 is a
     Regional forward list on the WWB distribution containing Swedish
     echos from Zone 2 Region 20. Submissions must follow this convention.

     Regional forward lists are controlled by the REC or Distribution Hub
     of the list origin, and as such the REC/Hub is considered Moderator/
     Owner of all echoareas on that list. WWB distribute for the echo
     owner, the owner of the echo retains all administrative control.

     Regional list Owners may include information within the Regional list
     file as to Hub locations, distribution and/or any special circumstan-
     ces/rules associated with any or all of the list echos. Connecting
     systems should read the list file of any Regional echoarea for
     further information.
     -----8<-----

     The listed files are, or must be, available for FREQ with these
     sysops/nodes:

     Joe Jared       1:103/301
     Sven Dueker     2:2432/200
     Barry Blackford 3:774/605
     Renato Zambon   4:801/161

     And also in the anonymous ftp glonet.co.nz.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 17                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                                INTERVIEWS
     =================================================================

              Interview with George Roberts of Nexus BBS Software


       As Editor of the Fidonews, a publication of the Fidonet mail
     network, I'm trying to interview various Authors of BBS related
     programs and other software for the Fidonews.

      With your permission, I'd like an E-Mail address and Web page, if
     available, to publish in the Fidonews.

     Sure!  http://www.nexusbbs.net/, sales@nexusbbs.net, and
     telnet://bbs.nexusbbs.net for my BBS.

      Questions:

      Q: Tell us a little about George Roberts. Just who are you? :)

     I am a 28 year old computer analyst for a Fortune 500 company.  My
     wife Jessica and I are expecting our first child August 1, 2001.  I
     have been singing in a semi-professional a cappella group for about 11
     years now.

      Q: What got you first interested in BBS?

     I started calling BBSes when I got my first computer back in 1987.  I
     was fascinated by the fact that I could use my computer to dial into
     someone elses computer and download files, play games, read/write
     messages and chat.

      Q: How long have you been programming?

     I've been programming for 14 years, ever since I got my first
     computer. I started with BASICA, Microsoft's Advanced Basic, on DOS
     3.3 I believe it was.  Since then I have learned to program in
     QuickBasic, Turbo Pascal, Visual Basic for Windows, C++, Delphi, Perl,
     and Javascript.

      Q: What prompted you to begin writing Nexus?

     Well, it started out just as a personal project to see if I could do
     it. I didn't have any grand plans in mind for it, but mainly just for
     my own use.  A couple of friends of mine who were also sysops saw it
     and begged me for a copy for themselves.  I gave in. :-)  Of course,
     the inevitable feature requests, bug reports, comments, and
     suggestions followed. Before long they were telling me I should plan
     it as a public software package.  I started the initial beta team back
     in, oh, 1996 I think. Development actually started on Nexus way back
     in 1992.

      Q: What do you see as the strong points of Nexus? Give us a quick
         review.

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 18                   7 May 2001


     Well, Nexus is a very configurable BBS software package.  Most of the
     display strings and such are completely configurable, and before the
     "final" release, almost all of them will be.  Nexus supports the
     standardized message formats of *.MSG, JAM, and Squish.  It has a very
     flexible menuing system and what is right now only a rudimentary
     scripting system, but that will receive more work as time goes on.
     The security and priveledge system is VERY powerful.  The file system
     is very innovative, allowing the sysop to choose how many description
     lines per file they would like to store.

     The software is still in public beta mode and has quite a bit of work
     left to be done on it.  Currently it is only available as a DOS
     application, but plans are already being made to port to Win32, OS/2,
     and probably Linux as well.

      Q: Have you written any other BBS related software?

           If so, please tell us a little about it.

     I recently wrote a small utility that is being tested called NLLIST
     that will create a BBS List from a St. Louis-format nodelist file.

     I've also written many other small utilities, but most of them are
     several years old now and not really maintained.  If I remember
     correctly, they were all freeware.

      Q: Where do you see BBS systems going in the future.

     I think that as broadband internet connections become more prevalant,
     sysops will move their boards to the net.  We're already seeing a lot
     of this now in Zone 1.  I think that BBS software will allow sysops to
     take advantage of the speed and worldwide nature of the Internet, but
     continue to provide the ability to create a community.

      Q: Anything else you want to add or tell the readers?

     Well, Nexus has been released in Public Beta for people to try.
     Please feel free to download the latest public beta from
     http://www.nexusbbs.net or my BBS at telnet://bbs.nexusbbs.net.  I'm
     always open to ideas and suggestions, so if you try it out, let me
     know what you think!


      > Thanks for your time and help in this interview.

     You're welcome Frank!  Anytime.

     George

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 19                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                              FRANK'S COLUMN
     =================================================================

                                    Networks
                                 By Frank Vest


      You're probably thinking this is about Fidonet, Internet or both.
     Nope. It's about my network. No, not a new Fido or Internet style
     network either. Just 'my' network. :)

      A few weeks ago, I decided to try to put together a couple of my
     computers (I have three in the house counting the BBS machine) in a
     network. I must say, it's been fun. :)

     Started out with two old network cards. One was an ISA plug & play and
     the other was a plain ISA. To make a long story short, I installed the
     cards and let Windows configure the stuff that it does for the
     network. Things went well and I got it going with NetBeui. I thought
     this was great... until I rebooted one of the machines and the network
     disappeared. :(

     From then on, I fought with the thing. I tried TCP/IP and everything
     from resetting up the network, including the dial-up part, to
     re-installing the cards. I searched the Internet and finally found the
     drivers, manuals and setup programs for the cards. Why is it so hard
     to find this stuff on the Internet?... Anyway, that's another story.
     :)

     I finally decided, after a visit from my RC and our attempt to get the
     network up, that the BIOS of my main box had a problem. I tried to
     upgrade the BIOS and Windows wouldn't load for nothing. I couldn't
     even do a re-install of Windows. I got the BIOS back to the old
     version and was flustered to no ends.

     Now, why didn't I think of this. Ask Fidonet Sysops! I put a note out
     in the Region 19 mailing list and got suggestions. One of which was to
     check the NIC settings of the cards. I thought, "I did this and saved
     the setting and reset the setting and saved them and ...". Ok, why
     not.

     Here I go... Check the plug & play. It's fine. Check the other one.
     Same settings as before. Random thought. "save the settings even
     thought nothing has changed". So, I did.

     I'm not asking why and I'm not going to try to figure it out. I'll not
     complain. I'll just accept that when I re-booted the non-plug & play
     system, the network came up and was just like it had always been
     there.

     Go figger. :-)

     Anyway, just wanted to share this with you all and say: If you need
     help with something computer related, the best place to go is Fidonet.
     You'll get more help than you could imagine and better than any "help
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 20                   7 May 2001


     desk" IMHO.

     Regards,

      Frank

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 21                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                             GETTING TECHNICAL
     =================================================================

     4 May 2001

                           Expanding a Theme on ERN


     A short while ago I wrote on ERN routing and some of the basic ideas
     used as well as the history.  This next piece will take it a bit
     farther to show both flags in testing that may be useful for this
     purpose, and some more concepts on how charts are developed.

     A chart, is a text file used to show how sites interconnect so that
     netmail can be sent from one route to another.  People who route
     netmail, use these charts in their various different forms, to enter
     manually, 'routing statements' to handle netmail sent to them, and
     destined for another net.

     How are these charts made?  Well, it depends on the region and the
     zone involved.  They are not all the same, nor are they all published
     in the same format, even within the same zone.  But they all have one
     thing in common, for all that the formats differ.  A sysop (normally
     the REC but not always) checks what route each known net in their
     region desires, and types this up into a text file and sends it out to
     those who need it.

     In Zone1, these are hatched in a filebone area. In Z6, they are posted
     in a communal sysop echo.

     However they are sent out, eventually someone has to add them
     together.  The methods for that may be just 'pasting them on' (as in
     zone6 apparently) or with a major zone level chart as Z1 uses.

     Each method is prone to human error as it requires a human to do some
     tasks and make sure all works in tandem and that there are no apparent
     conflicts or typographical errors.

     Only a person with true divine inspiration and advance knowledge can
     be perfect at this, but as a hobby, it's working pretty well most of
     the time.

     Some however like to look to automated tools to produce such lists. To
     do this, the control has (under testing) been placed back with the NC
     level to directly reflect feeds.  This is a Z1 test at this time and
     exists only in 3 regions, with only 1 (R12) having a full test
     implementation.

     This test series involves several nodelist flags.  No one can yet
     actually change mailer routing automatically based on them.  They
     currently exist only to make potential routelists based on software
     still in testing.

     A new flag was added to the test zone in Z1.  Please note, all test
     flags until accepted belong in the USER comment area.  That means you
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 22                   7 May 2001


     use ,U,flag

     ------

     Janis has approved a new user flag for testing in Z1.

     U,DRVIA

     This flag optionally may carry a :Z:net/node uplink primary.
     Specifically there is to be only one entry of this flag per region and
     it is used to designate the default region routing site for all nets
     in that region if no other route is known.  It is applied to the
     primary use number of that node only.

     EX:  1:140/1 is the primary 'use' number for Bob Seaborn so if he were
     the default region route for his net, it would go on that number and
     that one only

     EX2: Joe Davis is the default region route for R13 nets.  Joe has
     numbers 1:13/1 and 1:261/1380. 1:261/1380 is his primary use number so
     the ,U,DRVIA goes on that number.

     This may complete the set of needed *RVIA user flags.  For a reminder,
     here ar the other 2 listed in earlier articles.

     ,U,MRVIA:(uplink address).  There are to be 1 per net (no more?
     Undecided by use yet) but the site specifically must be able to reach
     all nodes in their ne via routing services.  Just like DRVIA, it is
     applied only to the node's primary tossing 'use' address.

     ,U,RVIA:(uplink address).  There may be as many as needed in each net
     but specifically this is used just to show *exceptions* to default net
     links.  If node has a direct connection to the same path as the net
     does but with no interconnection to the net, it is valid to list it.

     EX: Larry DiFava in 1:270 draws from 1:275/103 and carries a
     ,U,RVIA:1:275/103 listing.  This is correct.

     ,U,RVIA listings are not valid methods of reaching other than the node
     in that list.  They are either questionable or non-functional to reach
     others in that net.

                                        xxcarol


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 23                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                              COMIX IN ASCII
     =================================================================

                                    Cow View

              (__)
              (oo)                       U
       /-------\/                    /---V
      / |     ||                    * |--|                     .
     *  ||----||
        ^^    ^^
     Cow at 1 meter.         Cow at 100 meters.      Cow at 10,000 meters.

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 24                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                                  RECIPES
     =================================================================


     MMMMM----- Recipe via Meal-Master (tm) v8.05

           Title: Xxcarol's Lamb Soup
      Categories: Xxcarol, Lamb, Soups, Diabetic
           Yield: 6 Servings

           1 lb Lamb, neck with bone pref'd
           6 sm Red potatoes, skin on
           1 sm Onion, sliced small
           2 md Carrots, sliced to dimes
         1/4 c  Chopped fresh chives (opt)
         1/2 c  Bok Choy, sliced green/white
           1 ts Black pepper, ground
           1 ts Salt (to taste)
           4 c  Water (plus as needed)

       With the advent of a sudden drop in Lamb prices in the USA, I've
       been experimenting with recipes. This one, was made with the
       ingredients above although I didnt have a whole pound of sliced lamb
       neck bones (with meat) to use. I had only 1/2 so used 1/2 of what's
       above.  With that, it was 2 cups of water.  With this, it should be
       4. This will add up to 6 cups of soup.  Is it good? I'm told so!  It
       was so good, my husband and daughter ate it all up and didn't leave
       me any!  They did add more salt and black pepper to taste, but I
       started with the basic minimums (grin).

       This will make a very nice broth with lots of veggies in it.
       Depending on the size of the red potatoes, you may want to slice
       them.  I used really small ones so each bowl got a whole one. If red
       skinned potatoes are expensive where you are, any type of non-sweet
       potato that takes well to long boiling will do.

       Bok Choy, for those not familiar, is an oriental cabbage with white
       stalks leafing out to dark green tops.  You could substitute 'head
       cabbage' (the hard balls shaped like a head) if the price of Bok
       Choy is dear in your area.  The Bok Choy amount would be about 2
       individual stalks.

       The chives added a nice touch but if you dont have a garden with
       them, you could add either some leek greens, a green onion, or just
       another small onion.

       To start, wash the veggies (skin the carrots if you prefer), then
       slice those that need slicing.  Place these in the pot along with
       the sliced neck bones (or other lamb meat with bone should do) and
       add the rest plus 4 cups of water.  Set the heat on a slow simmer
       and allow it to simmer for about 2 hours.  Add more water as needed,
       then test the taste.  If it seems ready, it is.

       For diabetics, you will want to then 'de-fat' the soup.  I poured it
       into a large plastic container and put that in the fridge to cool so
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 25                   7 May 2001


       the fat could be lifted off easily.  (If the lamb was another part
       other than 'neck bone' or it wasnt well trimmed, this may be a
       required step as lamb tends to be greasy).

       Grin, unfortunately at that point I went shopping and when I got
       back, Don had removed the fat, reheated the soup, and he and
       Charlotte (7YO) were licking the bottom of their respective soup
       bowls!

       From the kitchen of:  xxcarol

     MMMMM
     ---------------

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 26                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                            CLEAN HUMOR & JOKES
     =================================================================

                             WHAT WILL OUR SON BE?
     An older couple had a son, who was still living with them.
     The parents were a little worried, as the son was still
     unable to decide about his future career.

     So they decided to do a small test. They put a note on the
     front hall table saying that they had left. Around the note
     they put a ten-dollar bill, a Bible, and a bottle of whiskey.

     Then they hid, pretending they were not at home. The father
     told his wife, "If our son takes the money, he will be a
     businessman, if he takes the Bible, he will be a pastor, but
     if he takes the bottle of whiskey, I'm afraid our son will
     be a no-good drunkard."

     So the parents hid in the nearby closet and waited nervously.
     Peeping through the keyhole they saw their son arrive.
     The son read the note that they had left.

     Then he took the ten-dollar bill, looked at it against the
     light, and slid it in his pocket.

     After that, he took the Bible, flipped through it, and put
     it under his arm.

     Finally, he grabbed the bottle, opened it, and took an
     appreciative whiff to be assured of the quality.

     Then he left for his room, carrying all three items.

     The father slapped his forehead and said:
     "This is worse than I could ever have imagined!"

     "What? asked the wife.

     "Our son is going to be a politician!"


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 27                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                              CLASSIFIED ADS
     =================================================================

                                  Rotating ads


      As a new service of the Fidonews, I am prepared to offer rotating ads
     for those that provide services to Fidonet such as Mail Hubs,
     Gateways, Fidonet via Internet and such.

      How this works:

     1. Create an ad following the guidelines for the Fidonews.
     2. Keep it short and to the point.
     3. Put contact and other needed information in the ad.
     4. Send it to Frank Vest as a file attach.
       A. E-Mail "flv@texoma.net
       B. Netmail "Frank Vest - 1:124/6308

      I will put the ad in a pool and use a program each week to
     automatically rotate the ads into the Fidonews.

      Please! If you stop offering service or need to change your ad,
     contact me! This is very important to keep the ads current.

     I'm doing this on a trial basis. If it gets to be a problem, I will
     have to discontinue the service. I can make no promise of how often
     your ad will be in the Fidonews. This will depend on how many ads I
     have to rotate through.

      As always in Fidonet, I make no guaranties. :)

     Regards,

      Frank Vest - Fidonews Editor



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

                                Reporters Wanted

          The Fidonews is looking to fill several Reporter positions.

     Salary:
      You've got to be kidding. :)

     Duties:
      Write articles for the Fidonews about what is going on in your Net,
     Region, Zone or Fidonet in general.

     Job Requirements:
      Be able to format articles to no more than 70 characters per line and
     use only characters that can be typed on a plain old typewriter.

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 28                   7 May 2001


     Benefits:
      That good feeling you get when you do something positive for Fidonet.

     Sections that are open:

      .inv - Interviews with Fidonet and BBS software Authors.
      .art - General articles on Fidonet
      .gue - Guest Editorial(s)
      .ftc - Technical articles relating to Fidonet
      .rev - Fidonet and BBS software reviews
      .web - Fidonet Web Page reviews

     Note: There can be more than one reporter for each section and there
     are other sections that are open. This is just a quick list.

     Applicants should send articles for publishing to:
      Frank Vest - 1:124/6308(.1)
      Editor - 1:1/23
      flv@texoma.net

     Equal Opportunity:
      Fidonews is an Equal Opportunity Employer. We don't care what Node,
     Net, Region or Zone you are in. You will get the same benefits and
     salary. :)

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 29                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                            FIDONET BY INTERNET
     =================================================================

                       . -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
                       |    FIDONET-RELATED SITES    |
                       ` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
                          Last update:  March 3, 2001

     FidoNet
     Homepage:     http://www.fidonet.org
     FidoNews:     http://www.fidonews.org   [HTML]
                   ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
     Echolist:     http://www.tlchost.net/echolist/
     Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
     SDS Files:    http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
     FTSC page:    http://www.ftsc.org/
     General:      http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html

     Zone 1:       http://www.z1.fidonet.org
       Region 10:  http://www.r10.org
         Net 102   http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
         Net 103:  http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
         Net 203:  http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
       Region 11:  http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
        Net 2410:  http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
       Region 12:  http://sparkys.dyndns.org
       Region 13:  http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
         Net 264:  http://www.net264.org/
         Net 275:  http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
       Region 14:  http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
         Net 282:  http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
       Region 15:  <vacant>
       Region 16:  <vacant>
       Region 17:  http://www.region17.net
         Net 140:  http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
       Region 18:  http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/

       Region 19:  http://bise.tzo.com/r19
         Net 124:  http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
                   http://texoma.net/~flv
         Net 130:  http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
         Net 393:  http://www.chatter.com/~wb/

     Zone 2:       http://www.z2.fidonet.org
       Region 20:  http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
       Region 23:  http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)

       Region 24:  http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
                   http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
         Fido-IP:  http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
       Region 25:  http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
       Region 26:  http://www.nemesis.ie
          REC 26:  http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
       Region 27:  http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
       Region 29:  http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/  (French)
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 30                   7 May 2001


                   http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
       Region 30:  http://www.fidonet.ch  (German)
     ? Region 33:  http://www.fidoitalia.net  (Italian)
       Region 34:  http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm  (Spanish)
           REC34:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
       Region 36:  http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
       Region 38:  http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
       Region 41:  http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
       Region 42:  http://www.fido.cz
     !    Net422:  http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
       Region 50:  http://www.fido7.com/  (Russian)
        Net 5010:  http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5015:  http://www.fido.nnov.ru/  (Russian)
        Net 5028:  HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
        Net 5030:  http://kenga.ru/fido/  (Russian & English)
        Net 5049:  http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org  (English/Russian)
        Net 5074:  http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
     ??  Net 5085:  http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)

     Zone 3:       http://www.z3.fidonet.org

     Zone 4:
       Region 80:  http://fidobrasil.8m.com  (Portuguese)
       Region 90:
         Net 904:  http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)

     Zone 5:       http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/

     Zone 6:       http://www.z6.fidonet.org
       Region 65:  http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
                   (Chinese)


                          Fidonet Via Internet Hubs

     See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html

     a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
     address. The email is translated as follows
     firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
     appropriate individual's email.  Anyone in this list will
     also receive routed notice of this feature.  In my case, it
     would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.

     Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
     latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
     time between when the message is received, and when it is
     sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
     defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
     immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
     after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.

                v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
                | email address or
     Node#      | Operator          | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
                |                   |                |latency|
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 31                   7 May 2001


     -----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
     Zone 1     |                   |                |       |
       10/3     | Brenda Donovan    | FTP,UUE,BinkP  | 384K,30| n/c
       10/345   @ Todd Cochrane     | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,!  | n/c
       13/25    @ Jim Balcom        | FTP            | 56k   | $20mo.
       18/500   @ Ross Cassell      | FTP, BinkP     |128K+,!| n/c
      103/5     @ Mark Luetger      | BinkP          | 384k,!| n/c
      103/153   @ Michael Box       | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      103/301   @ Joe Jared         | BinkP,FTP,NFS  | 384k,!| n/c
      103/401   @ Warren Bonner     | BinkP          | aDSL,!| n/c
      105/8     | Russ Johnson      | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k  | n/c
      105/72    @ Larry James       | FTP, BinkP     | aDSL  | $50/yr
      106/1     @ Steve Loupe       | BinkP, FTP     | 128k  | ???
      106/6018  | Lawrence Garvin   | FTP, VMoT      | aDSL,60| n/c
      107/453   @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
      140/1     @ Bob Seaborn       | FTP,BinkP      | T3,30 | $5/$16
      167/133   | Stephen Monteith  | BinkP          | 128k+ | n/c
      211/417   @ Korombos          | BinkP,UUE,FTP  | T1    | n/c
      220/10    | groberts@nexusbbs.net |BinkP,FTP,UUE|1.5M+ | n/c
      218/109   @ Matt Munson       | BinkP,UUE      | 33.6k | n/c
      246/160   @ Mason Vye         | FTP, UUE       | 56K   | n/c
      249/116   | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE    |ADSL,60 | n/c
      280/169   | Brian Greenstreet | FTP            | 33.6  | $2mo.
      342/3     @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP      | 128K+ | n/c
      395/670   | Arthur Stark      | BinkD,FTP      | CABLE | n/c
      379/1     @ Dale Ross         | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
      396/45    | Marc Lewis        | UUE            | 33.6  | $26/yr
      396/48    | Ben Ritchey       | UUE:BFDS       | 33.6k | n/c
     2604/104   @ Jim Mclaughlin    | FTP,VMoT,UUE   | 33.6  | $1mo
     2613/404   @ David Moufarrege  | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
     2624/306   | David Calafrancesco  | VMoT        | 33.6  | n/c
     3407/4     @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE,FTP            | 28.8  | n/c
     3632/84    | Robert Todd    |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
     3651/9     @ Jerry Gause       | FTP,VMoT       | 33.6  | $3/$6
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 2     |
       20/11    | Henrik Lindhe     | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
       31/1     | Gabriel Plutzar   | BinkP          | T1+   | n/c
      203/600   | Mikael Karlsson   | UUE            | 64k   | n/c
      221/360   @ Tommi Koivula     | BinkP,UUE      | ???   | n/c
      236/205   @ Michael Kaaber    | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      246/2098  | Volker Imre       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      280/1601  @ Jeroen VanDeLeur  | FTP,UUE        | 64k   | n/c
      292/620   | Eddy Missoul      | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k   |N/C
      292/624   | Steven Leeman     | UUE          | 64k     | N/C
      292/907   | Bart Verhaeghe    | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K   | n/c
      292/2003  | Eric Vaneberck    | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      301/1     | Peter Witschi     | BinkP          | 768k  | n/c
      332/807   | Roberto Mascolo   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      335/535   @ Mario Mure        | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k   | n/c
      335/610   | Gino Lucrezi      | UUE            | 33.6  | n/c
      344/201   | Julio Garcia      | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      346/3     @ Carlos Navarro    | UUE            | ???   | n/c
      382/100   | Sinisa Burina     | BinkP,ifcico   | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Ofir Michaeli &   | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      406/555   | Marius Kaizerman  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 32                   7 May 2001


      423/81    | Milos Bajer       | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
      465/204   | Va Milushnikov    | BinkP          | 33.6k | n/c
      469/84    | Max Masyutin      | VMoT           | 256k  | n/c
      480/112   | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k  | n/c
      550/4077  | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE            | ----- | n/c
     2411/413   @ Dennis Dittrich   | UUE,BinkP      | 64k   | n/c
     2446/301   @ Lothar Behet      | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K   | n/c
     2474/275   | Christian Emig    | UUE            | 64k   | unkn
     5030/115   | Andrey Podkolzin  | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5100/8     | Egons Bush        | BinkP          | ???   | n/c
     5020/1159  | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE          | 33.6  | n/c
     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 3
      633/260   @ Malcolm Miles     | FTP,BinkP      | 64K   | n/c
      640/954   | Rick Van Ruth     | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
      774/605   @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c

     --------------------------------------------------------------
     Zone 4
      801/161   @ Renato Zambon     | UUE            | 33.6  |n/c
      905/100   | Fabian Gervan     | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k  | n/c
      902/18    | Javier Tejedor    | UUE            | 33,6  | n/c

     --
     * FTP   = Internet File Transfer Protocol
     * VMoT  = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
     * UUE   = uuencode<->email type transfers
     * BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
     * NFS   = Linux Networking
     ----------------------------------------------
     Fidonet oriented news servers

     news.osirusoft.com
     news.tardis.net

     Fidonet oriented chat rooms.

     room #fidonet  5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
     irc.osirusoft.com  (Peers wanted)

     ----------------------------------------------

     Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
     Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com.  All email addresses
     here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
     obtaining a feed.  Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
     most especially, email addressed to blockme@relays.osirusoft.com
     will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
     stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com




     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-19               Page 33                   7 May 2001


     =================================================================
                           FIDONEWS INFORMATION
     ====