      F I D O N E W S         Volume 18, Number 14             02 Apr 2001
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
     |  The newsletter of the   |Fido, Fidonet and dog-with-diskette are  |
     |    FidoNet community     | Registered Trademarks of Tom Jennings   |
     |    Copyright through     |    San Francisco, California, USA       |
     |          2007            |   Crash Netmail Attach Articled To:     |
     |          _               |  fido news@1:2320/38 (1-502-245-6778)   |
     |         /  \             |           for Telnet and Bink:          |
     |        /|oo \            |           Fidonews@1:2320/100           |
     |       (_|  /_)           |        Filegate.net or 64.38.85.9       |
     |        _`@/_ \    _      |                                         |
     |       |     | \   \\     |           Editor: Warren Bonner         |
     |       | (*) |  \   ))    |           editor@fidonews.org           |
     |       |__U__| /  \//     |           wdbonner@pacbell.net          |
     |        _//|| _\   /      |                                         |
     |       (_/(_|(____/       |                                         |
     |             (jm)         |   Newspapers should have no friends.    |
     |                          |                    -- JOSEPH PULITZER   |
     +--------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
       Copyright 2001 by Editor Warren D. Bonner for Fidonews Globally.


                        Table of Contents
     1. HEADLINE  .................................................  1
        =+=+ HEADER +=+=  .........................................  1
     2. CHAT WITH THE EDITOR  .....................................  2
        + EDITORIAL +  ............................................  2
     3. CORRECTIONS  ..............................................  6
        -=+ Corrected Connection +=-  .............................  6
     4. ARTICLES  .................................................  8
     5. FRANK'S COLUMN  ........................................... 12
     6. TRUE STORIES  ............................................. 16
        -=+ College Life +=-  ..................................... 16
     7. RECIPES  .................................................. 18
        -=+ Oenology I +=-  ....................................... 18
     8. TECHNOTES  ................................................ 23
     9. POET'S CORNER  ............................................ 29
        -=+ POET'S KORNER +=-  .................................... 29
     10. HUMOR  ................................................... 31
     11. NOTICES  ................................................. 33
     12. FIDONET BY INTERNET  ..................................... 35
     13. FIDONEWS INFORMATION  .................................... 40
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 1                    2 Apr 2001


     =================================================================
                                 HEADLINE
     =================================================================


     "Perhaps the appearance of relative youth is the harbinger of the
     onset of second childhood"        ---Doug Meyers


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 2                    2 Apr 2001


     =================================================================
                           CHAT WITH THE EDITOR
     =================================================================

                    --= Good Bye John Boy =--

     Today is the last day of the month, the day John pulled the plug on
     his BBS and the Southern Star, I was informed. Another pillar of Fido
     gone. First George Peace, and now John of the Star systems. It is sad
     to see them go. Sorry I don't have George's stats.

     John's 49, single, no children.  He is a Design Engineer (embedded
     systems, software and digital) by trade.  He started the BBS 13 years
     ago.  The system grew and spawned an Internet Service Provider
     business, which is what he does now.  In FidoNet, he has served as NC,
     Net Hub, NEC, Region Hub, REC, Zonegate, Filebone Coord, Filebone Hub,
     and Zone Hub. He helped start Net 1:396, Backbone, ERN, Filebone, new
     FTSC and Z1 Backbone.

     He has contributed to Fidonet since it was an unweaned puppy, and has
     many friends in Fido land who are sorry to see him go.

     John said, "I know that there will be times that I miss it, but it's
     time for me to move on.  You can still reach me at johns@sstar.com".


     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     By: Warren Bonner

     From the lips of Andy Brown in behalf of our Western Star...

     Brenda goes through a lot for Fido net that a lot of people never know
     about.. All some people do is complain if the mail is not delivered
     when they think it should be..

     Andy
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------

     Well folks, that is how it goes in fidoland these days. We struggle to
     keep the good people who give of their time and resources to make mail
     and files flow for all others... a kind of voluntary servitude for the
     benefit of all... which isn't appreciated on the level and with the
     respect it should be... I know!  I lost my feed last Wednesday from
     Brenda Western Star, when her DSL provider pulled the plug and
     suddenly was in a quandary as materials were not coming in for the
     Fidonews all the way to Saturday! Whew! What a relief when I pinged
     her for the mail this morning and she had it waiting. That is when you
     suddenly realize that the folks that make fidonet work are to often
     taken for granted.  Everyone should take a moment to send their feed a
     big smile and a thank you.

     On another note it is time to enjoy the warmth of spring, moving the
     cocks ahead to accommodate longer hours to work and play by in the
     coming months. April fool day is here as you receive this, and I don't
     have to "fool" you with a fake headline as some would do. ]:-)) Keep
     your articles coming and I'll try to keep them in the Snooze!
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 3                    2 Apr 2001


     WWR wdb Ol'wdb

                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     From: "Rob Ferrara" <rob@crabapplelane.net>
     To: <editor@fidonews.snfc21.pbi.net>
     Cc: <wdbonner@pacbell.net>
     Subject: Doug Myers
     Date: Monday, March 26, 2001 3:39 AM


     Hi Warren,

     Douglas Myers was file-attaching the Fidonews to me after I left
     Fidonet.  I had them going directly to a folder and I was reading them
     every couple of weeks.  When they stopped coming, I didn't think much
     of it.  I found out a few months ago that there was more to it than I
     thought.

     When I resigned as moderator of FN_SYSOP, I asked Douglas to be
     interim moderator until another election could be held.  In one of
     that echo's best moments, they elected him to the post.

     The reason for my writing to you is that I'd like to restart the
     practice of file-attaching the Fidonews to me.  Can you find a way to
     do it?  I asked John Souvestre a couple of months ago.  He said he
     would but he hasn't yet.  I suspect he forgot.

     I miss Douglas.  My last message from him:


     --- Start message

     To: <ferrara@gs.verio.net>
     From: Douglas Myers <DougM@paonline.com>
     Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:54:11
     Subject: Upcoming Events
     RF> Good Luck and Best Wishes for a speedy and full recovery from your
     upcoming surgery.  I'm 43.  For whatever reason, I pictured you as
     being younger than I.  I guess you just can't judge a cover by its'
     book.

     Doug> I'm 53; perhaps the appearance of relative youth is a harbinger
     of the onset of second childhood :)

     I'm pretty confident of the recovery.  The doctors don't consider me a
     big risk.


     --- End message


     Publish if you like.

     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 4                    2 Apr 2001


     --- Rob Ferrara Home Page: http://www.crabapplelane.net Work Page:
     http://www.gm-part.com Fantasy Football Home Page:
     http://www.crabapplelane.net/ffl/

                     ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

     To: "WARREN BONNER" <wdbonner@pacbell.net>
     Subject: Fw: Article
     Date: Saturday, March 31, 2001 12:30 PM

     By: Philip Lozier
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     * In a message originally to Michiel van der Vlist, Janis Kracht said:

     >MV> For one thing there is no way to get rid of an editor not
     performing to satisfaction.

     Janis> Too bad.  You deal with it. If an editor is not performing to
     your satisfaction, he could still be performing to other people's
     satisfaction.  You can't make everyone happy.  The position of
     Fidonews editor is not  supposed to be held by the winner of a
     popularity contest.

     Phil> Many editors are on the top of the "I HATE YOU" list, no matter
     what venue their publication comes out in...

     A job of the editor is to provide whatever relevant information /they/
     see necessary, despite the popular opinion, and to provide /their/
     own view of things... I think Warren has tried to be fair... maybe
     *TOO* fair, and has put up with too much guff... maybe he should start
     exercising moderator privileges... after all, FIDONEWS is to report
     the news, not to put up with what he has from the Z2 faction (90+
     percent who have nothing useful to contribute other than criticism).
     If Z2 had something amongst their vast, overpowering, numbers to
     contribute, I am *SURE* Warren would publish it.

     Now, just from my HO, I think Warren should "moderate" the topic of
     Zone, trademarks, and copyright, from this echo, as related to
     FidoNews...  If the Z2's can't handle that, and have nothing to
     contribute that is of a useful and productive nature, then so be it...
     let them start their own European version of FidoNews separate from
     this... What do we lose? NOTHING... just lose critics who never
     contribute anyway.

     Phil

                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      From:    Tony Frew
      To:      Michiel van der Vlist
      Subject: Copyright
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     G'day Michiel,

     24-Mar-01 10:59:03, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Warren Bonner
     Subject: Copyright
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 5                    2 Apr 2001


     Warren>> IF the submission states that it is: "Not for reproduction
     without the permission of the copyright holder" or "NOT FOR
     PUBLICATION", and may registered with the USPO as a work of
     Art, lit. ect., it will not be published without permission.

     MvdV> If that is the law of your country and you wish to adhere to
     that you will have a serious problem obtaining contributions from
     outside the USA jurisdiction. It conflicts with the laws in effect in
     my country and many others.

     MvdV> Sorry, to be so adamant about this, but I consider this a very
     serious matter. Until further notice you are not to publish /any/ of
     my texts in FidoNews Surely then it's simple.

     Tony Frew> Don't SEND any text then it CAN'T be published! It seems
     weird to me that you will send a message in a FidoNews Echo
     (Publishing domain), then say that you don't want it published. You
     have just published it yourself. You write into the VERY Echo where
     Warren gets some of his material from. It's also where I get my copy
     of the FidoNews magazine as I'm not connected to File echoes as such.
     I can see that you wouldn't want *your* words changed and then
     expressed as your opinion.

     Tony Frew> Anyway. To make my point!!! As I understand it. FidoNet is
     NOT a democracy. FidoNet has its own rules embodied in P4. EchoMail of
     course has its own rules laid down by the Moderator of the echo
     concerned.

     Each State in the USA has its own rules or Law. Each Country has its
     OWN rules of Law. As they say, "When in Rome do as the Romans do."

     FidoNet to my way of thinking is an International Community. The rules
     we go by here transcend various Country rules or State rules.

     Think about it!!! If you don't want to abide by rules you have two
     options... Change the rules or move. Changing the rules is difficult
     but not impossible.

     Moving is easy.

     If you are reading this Warren you have my EXPLICIT permission to
     publish this in its entirety in FidoNews.

     Kind regards,
     Tony Frew
     Fido : 3:774/605.1 - Internet : tony.frew@xtra.co.nz

                       ~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~



     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 6                    2 Apr 2001


     =================================================================
                                CORRECTIONS
     =================================================================


     By: brenda donovan
     To: all
     Re: internet stuff
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     hello all,

     Last week NorthPoint Communications closed it's doors and proceeded to
     dump all it's DSL circuits.  Mine went down for good Wed afternoon. A
     couple of my customers are in this loop also.

     Fortunately, I had a backup circuit here at home.  It's only 144K but
     it's a Covad circuit. Unfortunately, I'd never got around to testing
     it.  The router and line were bad.  Had Covad out here Thursday and
     they replaced the router. They "fixed" line. Still didn't work. Covad
     said it was a PacBell problem. PacBell come out yesterday afternoon
     and did some magic at my MPOE and it's alive.

     In the meantime, my ISP said to bring my servers over to his office so
     we could get them back online. Friday morning, I moved 4 critical
     machines over there. There aren't many ISP's who'd do that for their
     customers. These guys are super!

     That got my primary DNS server, my RADIUS server, my 2 FTP servers, my
     main web site, some small web sites, 6 e-commerce web sites, and a few
     other things back on the internet. I spent most of Thursday getting
     the fidonet stuff onto one of those machines. I had to move 200 email
     mailboxes from one server to another so my customers could get their
     email. I didn't get alot of sleep but it was worth it. All 4 servers
     came live just fine. My main mail server and web sites are on a T1 at
     a colocation site, so the main disruption was to all the things here
     at home.

     Today I'll catch up on the file echos and allfix stuff. I concentrated
     on the mail not the files.  Bob Seaborn has about 95 megs of spooled
     filebone files waiting for my word to send down here for processing. I
     hope to get them out today sometime.

     I have the fidonet processing all on a Windows 2000 server and I can
     log in remotely with Terminal Services Client.  There are still a
     couple of small batch file things to fix... my previous fidonet
     processing utilized my whole LAN here at home and I had things spread
     out all over the place. There were a lot of paths to get changed in
     config files <grin>. For the most part, it's all working again.

     Let me know if there are any glitches.

       take care...

        -brenda   <donovan@tnl-online.net>

     Editor> Many, many thanks Brenda, for all of your hard work for us
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 7                    2 Apr 2001


     fido folks.  I'm certain I speak for everyone.  Fidonews would not get
     out were it not for your personal endevor for it's existence at times.

     Ol'wdb

                  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 8                    2 Apr 2001


     =================================================================
                                 ARTICLES
     =================================================================

     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     By: Warren Bonner
     To: Janis Kracht
     Re: Succesion rules for the editor
     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
     In her neat sweet way, Janis replied to Michel Spinmaster:
     [...]
     MV> Having an independent newspaper is a good idea for the real world
     where there is competition and where it is the reader who ultimately
     decides what paper survives and what doesn't. In this case where there
     is no competition, the cure may be worse than the disease.

     JK> Well, fidonet is not a business... our participation in it is a
     hobby.

     MV> The present one does not have any.

     JK> That's right.. There have been editors of Fidonews whose style I
     didn't like.. That didn't mean they should have been replaced
     just because _I_ didn't like the way they did things.

     Take care,
     Janis

     Warren> Bravo! Would like to have requoted the whole entire message
     for it's obvious diplomatic persuasion on your part.  There are
     "rednecks" in some parts of our country, and there are "roughnecks"
     with a twist in some other countries.

     You talk so nice and logical, I'll just keep quiet and watch... hehe

     Ol'wdb

     --- InterMail 2.29k
      * Origin: Telnet://TheLastStop.osirusoft.com/ 1:103/401 (1:103/401)

                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Area:    FIDONEWS
      Date:    30 Mar 01  18:21:46  Public
      From:    Tony Frew
      To:      Michiel van der Vlist
      Subject: Copyright
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     G'day Michiel,

     24-Mar-01 10:59:03, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Warren Bonner
     Subject: Copyright

     Warren>> IF the submission states that it is: "Not for reproduction
     without the permission of the copyright holder" and may registered
     with the USPO as a work of Art, lit. ect., it will not be published.
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 9                    2 Apr 2001


     MvdV> If that is the law of your country and you wish to adhere to
     that you will have a serious problem obtaining contributions from
     outside the USA jurisdiction. It conflicts with the laws in effect in
     my country and many others.

     MvdV> Sorry, to be so adamant about this, but I consider this a very
     serious matter. Until further notice you are not to publish /any/ of
     my texts in FidoNews Surely then it's simple.

     Tony Frew> Don't SEND any text then it CAN'T be published! It seems
     weird to me that you will send a message in a FidoNews Echo
     (Publishing domain), then say that you don't want it published. You
     have just published it yourself. You write into the VERY Echo where
     Warren gets some of his material from. It's also where I get my copy
     of the FidoNews magazine as I'm not connected to File echos as such.
     I can see that you wouldn't want *your* words changed and then
     expressed as your opinion.

     Tony Frew> Anyway. To make my point!!! As I understand it. FidoNet is
     NOT a democracy. FidoNet has its own rules embodied in P4. EchoMail of
     course has its own rules laid down by the Moderator of the echo
     concerned.

     Each State in the USA has its own rules or Law. Each Country has its
     OWN rules of Law. As they say, "When in Rome do as the Romans do."

     FidoNet to my way of thinking is an International Community. The rules
     we go by here transend various Country rules or State rules.

     Think about it!!! If you don't want to abide by rules you have two
     options... Change the rules or move. Changing the rules is difficult
     but not impossible.

     Moving is easy.

     If you are reading this Warren you have my EXPLICIT permission to
     publish this in its entirety in FidoNews.

     WB> Thanks Tony, permission not necessary, as "Not for publication"
     was not requested by you. Only your echo mail was quoted. 8^)


     Kind regards,
     Tony Frew
     Fido : 3:774/605.1 - Internet : tony.frew@xtra.co.nz

                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          Why so few Points in Zone 1?
                         Todd Sullivan <1:3613/1275.12>


         The question was asked, and it's a valid one.  The perspective
     used here will be that of the average user, who doesn't know much.

         It's been said by many I've corresponded with in Europe that
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 10                   2 Apr 2001


     points are more efficient and less costly due to their local telephone
     costs.  To me, that is the real reason why points have been more
     widely used in that part of the world.

         The reason pointing never took off in Zone 1 (North America) is
     that the various phone companies - all various split-offs from Bell
     Telephone - are publicly owned companies, plus the fact that local
     calls have been historically cheaper than long-distance, and remain
     so.  Why? Distance. Another reason is that I, who live in Florida, can
     call California with no problem.  The distance is still "in country."
     I'm sure crossing national borders might have something to do with
     costs in Europe as well.  Another reason would be the fact that
     mass-pro- duction lowers the costs tremendously.

         With local costs so low, points weren't seen as necessary.  Every
     one of a BBS' users would dial up and answer their messages on-line.
     With the larger multiline systems that existed, there was little or no
     delay getting online, except that the heaviest times of demand.  There
     were mail bundling programs such as QWK and Blue Wave, but no one
     would use them when they could call, unless their time was limited. In
     those days, one could spend hours, if one had the access level, and
     many did, including myself.

         Another reason was that BBSs weren't all about messages; there
     were games, files and pictures available.  Adding to that the local
     (to the BBS) areas, no one really saw a need, especially with those
     multiline/node systems that allowed true interactive messaging
     locally. Furthermore, in those days the most advanced systems were
     IBM's PC-AT and 2/386, Commodore's Amiga 2000, the Apple II, TRS-80s.
     The Clones were just beginning to be seen on the market, and software
     was just being written for them.

         Point software at that time was just beginning, and the "big
     thing" was running a BBS, as it was a prestigious thing to brag about
     at the computer club, if you belonged to one.

         Point software became more prevalent when the large phone bills
     started coming in, and cron programs came out, as well as stand-alone
     mailers, which - up until then - only sysops and Fido Admins needed.
     Furthermore, running a BBS was becoming difficult; not everyone had
     the resources for the "long haul."  When messages (mail) became more
     important, many BBS operatorsbecame Mail Only systemss, and
     resultantly lost users.  People who were still wanting to send and
     receive mail still used their dial-up access or mail bundlers, but
     began using point software.

         The real reason(s) seem to have been the perceived lack of a need
     for points, and the lateness of starting.  When something is cheap,
     and works, one doesn't see why it needs fixing or improvement.
     - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

     Todd Sullivan Moderator, WUNDERMENT, AMY_TECH, AMIGASALE

     ... Choose heaven for climate, hell for society.

              ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 11                   2 Apr 2001


     -----------------------------------------------------------------

     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 12                   2 Apr 2001


     =================================================================
                              FRANK'S COLUMN
     =================================================================

                  Thoughts on the Internet versus Fidonet
                              By Frank Vest

      I'm not a guru of the Internet or of Fidonet, but I've read some of
     the discussion regarding the subject of Fidonet vs Internet. Here's
     some random thinking from me. Agree, disagree or whatever. :)

      Got to thinking, "Where is the power in the Internet"? Really... What
     gives the Internet it's power. Is it the graphics that it can produce?
     I don't really think so. Any server program with the right receiving
     program can "display" graphics. I say "display" because the receiving
     program is really what does the translation and display. All the
     server, or sender, does is send the files. The "browser" does all the
     work of translating those files into something readable. In reality,
     the Internet doesn't do anything more than Fidonet does in regards to
     transmitting files. In fact, if you consider that ANSI is sent "on the
     fly" and translated by the terminal program without using a "cache" of
     file(s), Fidonet is above the Internet in this regard.

      Let's look at the above from a different point of view.

      What makes the Internet work?  Well, there's the server which is a
     computer with files on it. There's the "dial-up networking" which is a
     terminal program for connecting to the server. There's the browser
     which gathers the files from the server and translates them into
     something readable. So;

     Server = Fidonet software (not the BBS stuff, just the mailer/tosser
     and such) Dial-up networking = Terminal program Browser = BBS software
     (if you're only in for mail, Point software)

      So, the Internet has taken the BBS software and made it available to
     the User in a form that is easy to setup and called it a browser. They
     kept the "complicated" server stuff for themselves to sell access to,
     and, the operating system people (Microsoft, OS/2 and such) put a
     terminal program into their OS and called it "dial-up networking".
     Wow!. :-)

      So, How about the speed?   Really? Have you ever hit a slow server?
     Sometimes, depending on the load, an Internet site can be slower than
     a BBS at 1200 baud. :)

      Well, How about the volume? Now we're getting somewhere. The Internet
     does have a big volume of stuff. I say "Stuff", because I'm not sure
     I'd call all of the things on the Internet "information". Some things
     are a little "far fetched" in my book. :)  Anyway....  Volume. In
     reality, there is probably as much volume in Fidonet as is in the
     Internet. Maybe it isn't there nowadays, but in the "heyday" of
     Fidonet, when there were some 30,000 Nodes, I'd think that the volume
     was pretty close.

      What about the profit/commercial aspects of the Internet?  Well...
     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 13                   2 Apr 2001


     you're getting hotter. True, if Fidonet was a commercial venture, it
     would probably be bigger and more advanced. There would be software
     authors willing to invest time in the creation of applications for
     Fidonet and more. Of course, Fidonet is a hobby and limited to what a
     hobby can put into it, so, lets move on, but keep in mind that before
     the Internet became the big commercial venture it is today, Fidonet
     was doing commercial stuff and had many "mega" BBS systems that were
     commercial in nature.

      How about the access and connectivity?  Bingo!!  Now we have it.
     Access and connectivity! Yup, the Internet has the access and
     connectivity that Fidonet doesn't.... along with the commercial
     aspect.

      Let's think on this a minute.

      Fidonet is a collection of Nodes/Nets connected via phone numbers
     that must be dialed each time to connect. The Internet is a collection
     of Nodes/Nets that are connected on a 24 hours a day, 7 days a week
     phone network that doesn't have to be dialed each time to connect. So,
     what does this mean? Simply put, if Fidonet could connect each Node to
     each other Node via a 24/7 phone line, Fidonet could have the
     connectivity of the Internet.

      In a weird thought, "What would happen if the Internet suddenly lost
     all of it's 24/7 phone lines and had to dial each system for a connect
     and then hang up after"?  Wow! We have Fidonet by another name! :)
     Really, isn't that the major difference between Fidonet and the
     Internet? If you remove the 24/7 connection and each ISP had to call
     the other ISPs to connect for file transfers and such, wouldn't this
     be the same as each Node in Fidonet having to call the other Node(s)
     to deliver mail?

      Now, this is not going anywhere in particular. I am just making
     observations for the sake of thought. If you were to have the Users of
     the Internet call their ISP and have to request the "web Page" files
     of a desired site, or just access what was on that ISP's server, then
     disconnect and keep checking back to see if the files for that page
     had been received, wouldn't that be something??? :) The Internet
     becomes Fidonet and we could beat the pants off of them!! :-))

      I wonder how the commercial aspect of the Internet would handle such
     competition? :-))


      In summing this up: The main difference between Fidonet and the
     Internet is the commercial and connectivity aspect versus the hobby
     and connectivity aspect. You can put all the "ifs", "ands" and/or
     "buts" in that you want, it still comes down to commercial versus
     hobby. Let's keep the hobby and let the Internet have the commercial.
     I'll enjoy the hobby, try to improve and help it where I can, use the
     Internet to promote or help where possible and suggest that you do the
     same.

     With kind regards,

     FIDONEWS 18-14               Page 14                   2 Apr 2001


     Frank

     http://texoma.net/~flv http://bise.tzo.com/r19

                       ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                   Fidonet's "Default Web Page" :/
                            By: Frank Vest

      One person or group gets the feeling that another group is doing
     something that shouldn't be done. A discussion starts and escalates
     into a full battle.  As the battle rages, someone makes a suggestion
     that would end the whole battle and make all sides happy. Problem is,
     the person with the suggestion isn't in a position to do anything and
     the people that are in a position to do something are too busy with
     the battle to look at the suggestion. Or, maybe they just look at it
     and

     1.) can't be bothered at the time
     2.) don't want to take time to really think about it
     3.) just want to keep the battle going because they like to fight
     4.) all of the above. :-(

      Ok, those of you that fit the above may feel free to keep on
     fighting. The rest of you that want to move forward, follow this:


                         Where is "fidonet.org"?


      It is on the Internet, of course!  That was a dumb question, right??

     Not really. If one does a search on the Internet for the word
     "Fidonet", one will probably find at least one link to the URL of
     fidonet.org. Many URLs for Fidonet have a link to this site. So,
     what's the problem you ask? Honestly, the site is out of date and very
     sparse in it's offerings.

     What can be done?  Good question. I wish I had the answer for it. As
     the "Web-Idiot" for Region 19, I've done some playing with ideas for
     an update, but without some movement from the "key players", it's
     kinda hard to go anywhere.
