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x- WebTV hackers x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

And the story Begins.....


From ulTRAX@webtv.net
To: Fonez@ca.tc
Subject: Re: rev0lt!

I have for at least the last year considered my self more an archivist
than an active hacker. In fact it was trying to keep up my site...
trying to build up that hacking knowledge-base, that ate up all my time. 
Now I hang around in NG's and debate politics. LOL There are people out 
there you should be talking to who know more than I. If you want I'll try 
to hook you up.

[ Part 2: "signature" ]

			     IT'S A FRESH WIND THAT
			    BLOWS AGAINST THE EMPIRE
			   progressive NG WTV archive

(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\

   I (cuebiz) am writting this in colaboration with a new edition to my buddy 
list, Zack20. Say hi Zack, ("Errmm, Umm, Hi"). Okay, Zack doesn't have kids
but I do, so This introduction will be written by me (cuebiz).

** Zack20: I DO have kids. Cuebiz just wants the spot light

  As you all know, I've been having some fun with my TV, and gn0, I dont get
free porno movies. About two years ago, I carded myself a WebTv box and key-
board, with hopes of sparking an interest in my 2 year old daughter about the
internet (I've been trying to turn her into a computer geek since birth).
Just when I was about to give up and buy her a basketball, I overheard her say
that the internet was "cool". Now, at 4 yrs old, she's outgrown WebTv and has 
advanced up to her own Sony P3 laptop (she mostly watches Dr.SuSe DVDs).

  Anyways, I was then stuck with a WebTV box that I didn't need anymore. I've
used it back when I first got it and went through a phase where I would check
alt.webtv.hacking every single day, but, hey, I hadn't done it in about _two_
years and everything has changed with the "WebTV hacking scene" since then.

** Zack20's note: Yeah me too.

  I then thought to myself, "Hey, I wonder if there IS such a thing as WebTv
'hacking'? Maybe, maybe not, I _THOUGHT_ I was hacking back then, but is it
REALLY hacking? I dont remember. Hrmmm". I then remembered a person from a.d.
webtv.hacking whom supposedly 'MADE' the newsgroup, whos name was Ultrax. I
checked out Ultrax's page at Members.Tripod.com/~ULtrick and noticed that it
was still up with the same design from years ago (but with MORE infoz).

** Zack20: I remember Ultrax.

Below are news clips that we've found about a WTV bug discovered in Jan '00:

** Zack20: like, yeah. Fear our elite google.com skills!

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(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\

* UPDATED Story!
 Net4TV Voice has released a major update to this story (1/3/2000).
 WebTV Security Breach:Hijack Code Can Forward Stored Mail
									 
 A WebTV "hack" code is being used to send mail from WebTV users'
 boxes, without the users being aware of it. This code is being
 embedded in some newsgroup posts, emails, and web pages. When a WebTV
 user opens the post, email, or web page, it causes the user's WebTV to
 send an email to an address embedded in the code, with a message that
 also is included with the code. The action takes place 'behind the
 scenes' (that is, users do not even see the mailbox sending mail on
 the screen). WebTV is aware of the problem and is working on it. In a
 December 21 posting to the webtv.users newsgroup, WNI Moderator stated:
				      
     From: wuapr@corp.webtv.net (moderator)
     ***Beware: Hacker Newsgroup***
     Hi all,
     We are having a problem with some of the users in the hacker
     newsgroup "alt.discuss.webtv.hacking", so I wanted to make you
     aware of what's happening.
     Some users have created a code so that if you click on their post,
     an email is sent to the WebTV abuse department from your email
     address with very vulgar language.
     Our engineers are diligently working to eliminate this bug, but in
     the meantime please be careful. This newsgroup is known for
     stirring up some trouble, so everybody should be alert if you
     decide to access it.
     -ck webtv.users moderator
     webtv networks
     
 Net4TV Voice has learned that, unfortunately, the knowledge of this
 code and how to use it has spread outside the hacking groups and is
 being used in other newsgroups, emails, and websites. Users who hit
 codes that send email to WebTV's Abuse department will know when they
 see the auto-response email from Abuse back to them. But those that
 may send email to some other addressee may not even know that they
 have sent it. If you have hit this code and your box has been used to
 send an email to someone, you will find the email in your Sent Mail
 folder. If there is no email in your Sent folder that wasn't sent by
 you, then you have not hit this code. Even so, you'll want to check
 your Sent folder at least every few days until the problem is fixed --
 just because your box hasn't been hit yet doesn't mean that it won't
 be. Remember that the mail is only in the Sent folder for a short
 period of time, so you'll need to keep an eye on it. If you dp find
 that your box has been used to send mail to someone without your
 knowledge, you may wish to send another explanatory email to the
 addressee and perhaps point them to this article for an explanation.
				      
* What This Problem DOESN'T Affect 
 This problem only affects WebTV email -- it doesn't affect HotMail or
 other third-party email that you may be using. It also doesn't mean
 that people can get into your mailboxes or mess with your own received
 mail; it is simply triggering your box to send an email in the background. 
 Net4TV is in communication with WebTV about this problem, and will post 
 an update as soon as we receive additional information, or are notified 
 by WebTV that the problem has been fixed.

 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
 

WebTV To Patch Email Hole
by John Gartner
3:00 a.m. Jan. 4, 2000 PST
   
 WebTV is working on a fix for a security hole that enables third
 parties to send email from WebTV accounts.
   
 Malicious programmers have been embedding the HTML of Web pages and
 newsgroups with stealthy code that can force email accounts into
 sending messages without the user's knowledge.
   
 The security hole was first reported on Net4TV. The code is being used
 to spam WebTV's abuse mailbox and could be used to send emails to
 unsuspecting third parties.
   
 On Tuesday, a WebTV spokeswoman acknowledged the security problem, and
 said that the company was working on a software patch that would be
 posted today.
   
 WebTV users can determine if their email account has been compromised
 by checking their "sent" folder for email and identifying anything
 that does not look familiar, the WebTV spokeswoman said.
   
 WebTV will update their server software to remove the vulnerability;
 users will not have to download any additional software, according to
 the company.
   
 According to Laura Buddine of Iacta.com, the parent company of Net4TV,
 the code was first made known to hackers in September, but has become
 widespread during the last week.
   
 "At this point, this code is all over the place," said Buddine.
   
 The offending code has been placed on newsgroups that are accessible
 only to WebTV users, as well as on hacker newsgroups such as
 alt.discuss.webtv.hacking, according to Buddine.
   
 She said the code was originally written by a WebTV employee but has
 since turned into a tool for ne'er-do-wells.
   
 "I could envision someone using it to get others in trouble by sending
 death threats from other people's accounts," Buddine said.
   
 Buddine said that she has received more than 10 emails from WebTV
 users who claim to have had been affected.
   
 WebTV said that the user impact has been minimal with only one user
 reporting malicious mail being sent.
   
 In addition to being able to generate email without the user's
 knowledge, the code can be engineered to forward email from sent mail
 or saved mail folders.
   
 According to Buddine, a WebTV employee acknowledged the existence of
 the security hole on 21 December, and posted a warning to WebTV users
 not to visit the alt.discuss.webtv.hacking newsgroup because it would
 cause erroneous messages to be sent to the WebTV abuse mailbox.
   
 Buddine said that hours after Net4TV posted the story on Monday
 detailing the hole, WebTV blocked the Net4TV mail servers from sending
 email to WebTV users. WebTV posted the Net4TV IP address on the list
 of spammers.
   
 Buddine said email emanating from the Net4TV IP address was denied as
 of 4 p.m. PST Monday. She said Net4TV's attorney sent an email to
 WebTV early Tuesday, and their IP address was removed from the list
 approximately 20 minutes later.
   
 In September, Net4TV reported that WebTV email accounts that were full
 would disclose subscriber and user ID information as part of an
 automatic reply. WebTV subsequently fixed the problem.


 -----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Laura Buddine
January 2, 2000
				      
UPDATE: WebTV Says Email Hijack Code Fixed
WebTV Networks is now reporting that the "email hijack code" that had
allowed malicious exploitation of users' email accounts and opened
their stored mail to prying eyes has now been fixed. 

Updated Story Jan 6, 2000
									 
 Net4TV Voice has learned that the "hack" code that is being used to
 send email from a WebTV user's box without the user's knowledge also
 is being used to compromise the security of users' stored mail. The
 code, which is being embedded in posts in WebTV's alt.discuss
 newsgroups, emails and web pages, directs any WebTV box that loads the
 page to send an email message to an address set in the code. The code
 executes "in the background;" users who have sent the mail do not see
 any indication of mail being sent, and only find out about it if they
 receive a reply or look in their Sent Mail folders. Now, Net4TV Voice
 has learned that the code has even more serious security implications.
 It also has been used to forward email from users' own Sent Mail and
 Saved Mail folders to an address set in the code. Although hackers
 cannot directly see the email that a WebTV user has within his/her own
 account, they can forward it out into their own email account on
 another service, helping themselves to a user's private correspondence
 and information. Net4TV Voice has been shown how this can be done, and
 also has heard from one user whose email account has apparently been 
 violated.
				      
		    Code Known At Least Since September
				      
 The basic email code that is the key to controlling a WebTV user's
 mailbox has been known by some users since at least September, when it
 was discussed in one of the WebTV hacking newsgroups. A number of the
 frequenters of the group used the code to create "receipts" in their
 mail so that they would receive a mailback when the email was opened
 and read, or as a watch of their web pages so that they could see who
 was surfing it. "It was not intended to be used for malicious
 purposes," wrote one of the WebTV users who made use of the code. "Of
 course, some with questionable intent got a hold of the code and used
 it for other than the original purpose."
				      
       Mods Know About Code, But Customer Service, Abuse Don't Get It
				      
 Among other things, the code has been used to bombard WebTV's Abuse
 Department with profane complaints, and to cause users to unknowingl
 send nasty messages to others. One of the problems is that there is no
 way within the email itself to prove that the box it came from did not
 originate the email; one WebTV user has written to Net4TV Voice that
 WebTV's Compliance Department is threatening her with termination for
 "spamming," even though the email is being triggered by an email
 containing the code that is in her box. On December 21, a moderator in
 the official webtv.users newsgroup posted a warning that users should
 not go into a hacking newsgroup because of the code. The warning,
 which was published in Net4TV Voice's mid-issue story, User Alert:
 WebTV Email 'Hack' Can Send Mail From Your Box, claimed that the code
 itself was created by "some users." In fact, the code was created by
 WebTV itself (as were all elements and codes in the WebTV software).
 Net4TV Voice has since been advised that the code itself was
 previously posted in webtv.users and was "slipped past the mods."
 Often, the emails containing the code also contain another "no send"
 code that prevents them from being forwarded or "bounced." This
 prevents the trouble-making mail, post, or page from being forwarded
 to WebTV Abuse as evidence. This has led to some ludicrously
 frustrating exchanges with WebTV Customer Service in the WebTV Help
 Center, which insists that they cannot do anything and that posts must
 be forwarded to Abuse before action can be taken. WebTV user JaxRed
 offered this example that he had received after he wrote to them
 explaining the problem and that the posts had "no send" codes preventing 
 them from being forwarded:
				      
     Dear Customer,
     Thank you for writing WebTV.
     We understand your concern regarding this matter. However, this is
     not an issue that the Customer Service Center, can help you with.
     We apologize for the misunderstanding on our part regarding this
     matter.  However, this is a matter that you will to forward (sic)
     on to Abuse@webtv.net. Abuse will look into this matter further for
     you. Please forward any and all the information that you have
     regarding this matter to Abuse@webtv.net. Please only forward this
     matter once, as if this issue is forwarded more than once there is
     a chance that this issue will be rejecked.(sic)
     
 Another user, however, received a different response from the Customer
 Service Center when she complained about a post made by a self-proclaimed 
 hacker:
				      
     Dear Customer,
     Thank you for writing WebTV.
     We are aware of this issue and are working on removing this person.
     We do appreciate your feedback. I will pass this information along
     for you.
     
			Waiting for WebTV's Response
				      
 Net4TV Voice contacted WebTV Networks on Thursday in preparation for
 this story, but were advised that because of the New Year's holiday,
 they would be unable to respond until January 3. Although we declined
 to hold the story to wait for their response, we will post an update
 to the story when we receive it. However, Net4TV discussed the issue
 with a former WebTV employee who was involved in the operation of the
 WebTV servers. These were his comments:
				      
 WebTV's machines already filter certain content before sending it
 along to our boxes. They call it transcoding. Essentially what
 happens is they replace certain HTML with their own, mainly for
 their own security but also for functionality in some cases. What
 this means is that WebTV's machines already go through every line
 of code, whether on a web page or in an e-mail or newsgroup post,
 looking for the offending HTML and transcoding as necessary before
 our boxes receive it. That's why I can't understand what's taking
 them so long to fix this thing. It's probably easier said than done
 but a quick solution would be to add this mail exploit code to the
 list of code they're already filtering and be done with it, at
 least until they can address the problem more thoroughly in a
 future client build. That'd have to be done eventually because
 there are certain situations where our boxes by-pass WebTV's
 machines (and thus the transcoding) but in the meantime the
 overwhelming majority of the problem would be solved.
     
			  WebTV's Security History
				      
 This is not the first time that codes that WebTV created for their own
 purposes have either been leaked or discovered by users and used to
 create security holes and "bombs." About eighteen months ago, WebTV's
 email was actually hacked by a WebTV user, who was then trapped by a
 "hacking contest" that got him to reveal how he had done it. The hack
 was reported by the "trapper" to WebTV and that hole was closed. But
 more holes remained, including some that had many WebTV users playing
 "Doom" long before it was released (and only to DishPlayer users).
 Last spring, some WebTV users found another code that could be used to
 insert and rearrange Favorites folders in other users' boxes, while
 the use of a WebTV code that could wipe out users' accounts (the
 Amnesia Bomb) caused such problems that WebTV was forced to rush out a
 browser update to stop it (Amnesia Bomb Halts Plus Update). The most
 serious security breach was revealed in September, when Net4TV Voice
 broke the story WebTV Spam Block Revealing User, Subscriber IDs. WebTV
 tried to downplay the seriousness of the breach, claiming that nothing
 could be done with the IDs even if they were revealed (not true --
 with a user ID known, it was possible to terminate a user's account
 remotely); WebTV's Customer Service department even sent email to
 users in which they claimed that the Net4TV Voice story was "bogus"
 and that Net4TV was working with spammers to get the maximum amount of
 spam delivered to WebTV users. When confronted by CNet and ZDNet,
 however, WebTV admitted the security breach was true but stated that
 it had been fixed. Microsoft itself has also had its security
 problems, with breach after breach in HotMail security finally causing
 the company to announce that it was calling in an independent outside
 auditor to review its security. Microsoft would not release the name
 of the auditing company, stating only that it was one of the "big
 five," but did admit that its biggest breach had been caused by a
 string of code that hadn't been tested for security. When the flaw was
 first revealed, Microsoft claimed that its security had been broken by
 sophisticated hackers, armed with powerful software tools. In October,
 Microsoft announced that Truste had OK'ed the security fix at HotMail.
 Security and privacy are two areas of growing concern, as the U.S.
 continues to use a "voluntary action" and "self-enforcement" approach
 rather than the stringent protection of the individual's personal data
 that the European (EC) countries require. The U.S. privacy laws are a
 patchwork of state and federal laws, rules, and regulations that have
 numerous loopholes, and as databases link up and make it easier to
 create detailed profiles on any citizen, there is increasing call for
 a general privacy policy to replace today's patchwork. WebTV itself
 has also drawn fire because of its collection of user data; although
 then-CEO Steve Perlman revealed in October 1998 that WebTV was
 recording its users' activity on the Net and on TV (see WebTV Is
 Watching You), it did not offer its users the ability to "opt out" of
 being recorded until the HipHop upgrade in November, 1999, over one
 year later. "It's not that I only don't trust WebTV not to sell
 information they have on me," wrote one user to Net4TV Voice, "I don't
 trust them not to just let it out accidentally because they didn't
 lock the door. I'm beginning to wonder if they even care about
 anyone's secrets except their own. I just traded up to a new WebTV
 Plus and I used my son's credit card. He's got a different name and a
 different billing address -- but they never even asked for anything
 except a card number and an expiration date... it could have been
				 anyone's."

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After reading that, you must think, "Whoa, just ONE little bug coded in 
JavaScript, fucked up alot of shit", heh, actually, this is just a small
bit of what WebTv "hackers" could do. We've gotten in contact with two 
from the WebTv hacking scene, LimDog, and Ultrax. Check out the interviews:


                         -- Interview with LimDog --

> Are you a dude or a chickie?
 
 A dude.

> Do you masterbate often?

 I'm guessing this magazine isn't quite mainstream.. heh.

>How old are you (you can exaggerate a little)?

35

> Do you have a web page?

I have a few still out there. I have a simple WebTV help page for WebTV 
users interested in deleting their cookies and doing some beginning 
exploring stuff. It can be found at http://angelfire.com/tv/limdog/1.html I 
have another WebTV site that demonstrates how easily your screen name (i.e. 
email address) can be manipulated by others. It is a message board format 
that still works on most of the WebTV clients out there. It can be found at 
http://tvboards.virtualave.net/


>Why did you get connected to WebTV in the first place?

The WebTV appliance is deceptively easy to use and cheap to buy. I paid $100 
for my first unit and used a $10 wired keyboard.

>When did you first realize that you wanted to explore the WTV networks?

I had came across some html help sites that showcased some of the WebTV-only 
html tags and I slowly got interested from there. I knew that you could view 
your cookie list using someone else's trick, but it wasn't until the cookie 
clearing command was guessed that I really became excited about manipulating 
the WebTV unit.

> Describe your first encounter with the WebTV hacking community?

I started reading the news groups. It was there that I came across the first 
cookie clearing tool. It was scripted by a user named Pac. When he was 
exposed for using a force mail code on his tool I decided someone needed to 
write a safe tool. So I wrote my first tool for public consumption.

>Do WebTV hackers have cons that they can go to?

??

>What kind of WebTV box do you own?

I own an old classic and a  lucy (new plus)

>What can we do with a WebTV Classic?

plenty, but most of the really amazing stuff will get you terminated.

> What other types of WebTV boxes are there?

New Classic, Old Plus (w/hardrive), DishPlayers, UltimateTV... I am sure I 
missed a few of the plus's..

>Have you read Revolt Issue one?
No

>What's the most annoying thing thats ever happened to you on the net?

This is more annoying than having your site deleted, or getting your email 
jacked. I had downloaded an internal client that was intended to be used by 
employees and previewers i believe. WebTV wouldn't TOS an internal build 
back then because they knew you could easily get back online with it. I had 
to repeatedly click past an "Upgrade Offered" screen to keep my special 
internal build. I woke up one morning to see my dog step on the keyboard and 
accept the "upgrade"! Apparently the dog had previously stepped on the 
power-on button to get to the "Upgrade" screen. I tried to power off clear 
the NVRAM, everything, but every time you powered back on it went to the 
upgrade screen. I lost my favorite build, was subsequently TOS'd, thereby 
losing the limdog email address.

> Should WebTV (WNI, whatever they're called) be afraid of you?

Not really. I rarely run amuck and at this time I have no plan of revealing 
all the current security holes.

> Should they be threatened by the WebTV hacking scene?

Yes. But only a few people should really be interesting to them.

> In January of 2000, there was a bug that would send threatening email to 
> abuse@WebTV.net. Its given alot of publicity to people in alt.discuss.WebTV.
> hacking, any comments on that?

There are alot of "tricks" we like to keep in our bag at all times. Force 
mail is usually childs-play, but we still like to figure out how to do it 
with every client they come up with.

>What is the most amazing thing that you are (or were) able to do with WebTV?

Me and a friend added and deleted users to each others boxes, and at the 
time that was a huge accomplishment. I accidentally ended up in another 
users mailbox back in 1999 and that flipped me out. The message board I 
wrote that uses your WebTV email address is a pretty good trick. I was the 
only one to do that.

> Do you program, if so, what language(s)?

html
javascript
perl


> Do you think you could kick Cuebiz's ass?

It's highly likely.

> Would you want to fight him at Defcon?

Is that a MUD? sorry... heh.

> Have you ever considered ditching WebTV and getting a computer?

Yes and you should too! Their terms of service allow them to read your email 
and claim any intellectual property of yours they might find!! Plus your 
account is perilously insecure, as are a myriad of personal info things.

> Where can every day hacker/phreakers find WebTV hackers on the net?

You can find alot of loudmouths in the news groups. I should know I used to 
be one of them loudmouths.

> Do you fear Ultrax?

Of course not.

> why?

Ultrax is pro privacy. The only fear i have of him is if a good trick that I 
worked on to do things like flash internal builds leaks out, and that trick 
is abused, I feel like uLTRAX will point it out to corporate to get the 
trick killed.

> Who would you consider "elite" in the WebTV hacking scene?

eric macdonald, virus omega, hacker reamer.

> Anything you want to include as a closing?

Yeah all you little bitches out there jacking my scripts know who you are! 
LAMERS! And oh yeah, get a comp. WebTV wants to steal from you. Their 
network is insecure because they made it that way to facilitate their theft 
of your info. Limdog knows who you are, where you have been.......



                       -- Interview with Ultrax --

> How old are you (you can lie)?

Sure I can lie....   want me to? I'm 49, male.... and happy to report I
have all my teeth and hair. As for my mind.... who can tell. I've always
been a scatterbrain. 

> If Male, don't you hate chicks who only dig intellectual guys?

Hell no!!!  It's the good-looking ones who waste themselves on
brainless meatheads with no sense of humor that bug me.  ;-)
 
> When did you start having an interest about the inner workings of WTV? 
  How did you first get into the "WebTV 'hacking' Scene?

I bought a WTV in summer 97 as a cheap way to hold off buying a new
PC.... I had access to the net before though a local university, but not
much of the web. When I did, I just got caught up in it for months. It
wasn't until January of 98 that I started paying attention to WTV
itself. 

I had to replace a defective box and the WTV tech told me to get my SSID
using a "power-off code". That led me to the WTV NGs to look for more
code.... and that's where I first heard about DEMO and WTV-TRICKS. 

Being considerably older than the kiddies there, I was also appalled by
their immaturity. Where I was dying to know what DEMO was...
essentially a fully functioning community account, they used it as a
shithole for voter fraud and to bomb others. WTV-TRICKS was a  secretive
PW protected WTV site. Though everyone and their grandmother claimed to
have been inside, no one knew what was there. 
By the end of the month I wrote a long report on DEMO and  was trying to
organize the serious people. Organizing, cutting though the bullshit and
building up the WTV hacking infrastructure have always been important to
me. Another motivator was hearing in Febuary 98 that WTV made a deal
with Nielson TV ratings to steal TV Watching data from Plus boxes.  If
true, I was determined to find a way to stop it.

 
> People have deemed you the one who "started" alt.discuss.webtv.hacking,
  what do you have to say about that?

I proposed a.d.w.h in March 98 under the name "darkmatter'. I wanted  to
distinguish it from all the "tricks & secrets" NGs. I had intended it to
be a more serious NG but any group named "hacking" was sure to attract
the kiddies who had just seen that terrible movie "Hackers". A month
later I created the privacy NG to reflect my other interest. 

> In January of 2000, there was a "bug" that got people in
  alt.discuss.webtv.hacking, especially you, fairly well known, who do you
  think started exploiting this?"

I'm at a loss on this one. There was a "delete user code" going around
in Aug of 99. It was the result of WNI's incompetence. WNI used to give
away user ID's in returned mail reports. Worse: the delete user code did
NOT have to be sent anyone.... the code worked remotely!!  I got zapped
about 8 times until Mattman realized only secondary users could be
deleted....  

> Why don't you go out and get a computer?

I've had a PC since '87. First an Amiga, then a 486SX-33. All the later
was good for was basic net access and word processing. I own a business
and one aspect of that is video production.... and figured when I bought
a replacement PC it'd have to do video and other intensive tasks like
PhotoShop. But I have a LOT invested in current equipment.  

Back in '87 what I wanted would have cost me $15K... not counting some
pricy software and video cards. So I bought WTV to stall for time. Since
then I have stalling down to a fine art..... But I've finally decided
that I won't go with Apple..... and even thou I hate intel, I'm looking
at  P4's, mainly for how SSE2 can be used in video.

> What would you call the most interesting thing you've seen on the WTV
  network?

I think it had to be either hacking accounts or the Great Tricks
Break-in of Aug 98. WTV never really recovered from what information we
got then. For the first time we had access to our IP service list....
which was invaluable in places like FLASH.. similar to DEMO, but with
access to additional IPs like the pre-registration and registration IPs. 

We also got the URLs to return to TRICKS (WTV foolishly only PW
protected their index page)... and the knowledge how the box's build
controlled what service it would connect to. 
Since we had URLs for "internal builds".... people were able to get back
into "testdrive".... WTV's test server. There we had access to all the
new features being tested. Some we could keep... like DOOM. Using the
IP:port/file method we were able to access TRICKS sites on other WTV
nets for months. 

> Describe your definition of a "WebTV Hacker".

I see hacking as a generic term... someone who gets a system to perform
in ways NOT intended by its designers. Therefore it needs an
adjective... "PC hacker" or "WTV hacker". 

 
> If two monkeys ran away from the zoo, and you saw them, would you try
  to stop them and bring them back?

Hell no! Patty Hurst and I are secret members of the Simian Liberation
Army. If they got free, it's probably because a SLA cell set them free.
God Speed Cocco!

> Has there been any busts/raids/etc on specific WebTV hackers?

WTV has been cracking down on hackers for years. Mattman and Boneham1
were TOSed back in spring 99. WTV conducted a  massive  crackdown last
fall when they introduced wtv-tokens. They were 32 bit encrypted codes
added to each fetch request. They were made up of a box's SSID, its
service, and the URL it was trying to access. With tokens.... WTV could
do a quick cross check to see if anyone was trying to access a URL
manually from an "accessor", or if an unauthorized  box was accessing a
restricted sub-net like Testdrive.  

> Would WNI have anything to be afraid of?

Hell yes. Some hackers working with the old Classic have access to a
connection utility that allowed them to connect to WNI's sub-networks...
even the Japanese service. People working with the Viewer.... WTV's
emulator for PC developers have also penetrated the system plus a whole
lot more such as being able to unTOS a box.  

> Do you have any suspicion that alt.discuss.webtv.hacking is not only
  being monitored by the authorities, but that a portion of the people
  come in claiming to be "WebTV Hackers" are in actuality, people from
  WNI, trying to get 0day infoz?

If WNI wanted to they could just monitor or log what we do on-line. One
mole tried to write me back in fall 98. He was SO suspicious that I
directly asked him if he was a corpie.  Some corpies post as corpies. 

I have had some contacts with corpies.... most are OK and I consider it
a friendly rivalry. I've never been out to screw anyone over. Knowing a
system could be broken has generally been enough for me.
There's always been a balance between wanting to explore in a
responsible way, and knowing that same knowledge can be abused to screw
someone over. 

If I see a security hole with potential for abuse, and I know the
information is about to get into the wrong hands,  I would probably act
to see the hole  closed. Part of it's principle.... but also for a very
selfish reason. There's NEVER been a code or hacking technique that has
NOT been abused to harm someone. Most likely I would be the first person
alot of immature pukes would go after.  I'm no great lover of WNI which
I think is a pretty dispicable company.  I created a site to bash them:
http://webtvexposed.tripod.com 

(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\
(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\(REV0LT)(REV0LT)/&*%#$[!^$?\

We were supposed to get in contact with dozens more, but unfortunatly, we
were running really low on time and by the looks of it, we'd have a better
chance getting Jericho from Attrition.org then some of these "elite" webtv
hacker dudes (heh). Oh, And Zack20 still hasn't contacted LimDog through MSN 
Instant Messenger (dammit Zack20!). In closing, fjear ... just... (( FEAR! ))
          
                   - Cuebiz -- Fonez@ca.tc -- t1s.8k.com

                                   and

                  - Zack20 -- Zack20@hushmail.com -- (no webpage)

NO CARRIER

